The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-11-26 00:00:00

INTERESTING TO APPRENTICES."At the polled &hitt
yesterday, before Messrs. Houghton and Bolton, an appren
tice to Mr. Hulse, baker, was committed for seven days to
neglecting his work and general disobedience; but it did no
transpire whether or not a premium had been paid with th,
indentures.

THE CHAs.c.—The Cheshire hounds will meet this day
(Friday,) the 26th instant, at Booth's Obelisk ; to-morrow
(Saturday,) the 27th, at Withington ; Monday, the 29th
at Hartford Bridge ; Wednesday, the Ist of December, a
Duddon Heath; Thursday, the 2d, at Duddon Heath
Saturday, the 4th, at Mere Hall,—at half-past ten o'clock,
Sir W. Massey Stanley's hounds will meet to-morrow, al
Sutton.

TAM CYSHANTER.—It will be seen, by an advertisemen
in our paper of this day, that Mr. Anderson's figures havt
been safely removed to the lower end of Ranelagh.street
where they will be more in the way ; and we have no doubi
but they will be well attended.

Four men have been apprehended at Manchester who have
for some time carried on an extensive system of fraud on
grocers. They were caught just as they were about starting
for Liverpool to embark for America with the produce of
their plunder. •

THE LATE ROBBERY NEAR KENDAL.—Christopher lon,
who was apprehended at Lancaster, on suspicion of having
committed the above robbery, underwent an examination at
the Town Hall, Kendal, on Saturday last, the 20th instant,
when he was committed to take his trial at the next assizes,
and was that day conveyed to Appleby Castle.
THE CENSUS.—Most of our contemporaries have com-
mitted an error in giving a statistical account of the popula-
tion of the counties. It would be inferred that the popula-
tion given was that of 1811, whilst, through a mistake origi-
nating in the London Journals, it is that of 1831. The par-
ticulars of both were correctly given in the STANDARD of
Tuesday.
A HINT TO OUR CONSERVATIVE FRIENDS.—TO entitle
a freeholder or copyholder to lip next year registered as a
voter for any Riding, &c., he must be in the actual posses-
sion of his qualifying property on the last day of January
next, at the very latest. It is, therefore, highly important
that all conveyances and other deeds of assurance should be
completed before the 31st day of January, 1812.
REMAINS OF THE RED DEER.—In excavating a drain
about ten or twelve feet below the surface of the grounp at
Birkenhead, and while cutting through what appeared to be
an old peat bog, filled entirely with mouldered leaves and
shells of the acorn, the skeleton of a stag, the antlers of one
of the red deer, and several skulls of the same tribe, were
discovered in a perfect state of preservation. These remains
are in the possession of Mr. Cole, architect, Hamilton-street,
Birkenhead, who, will be glad to show them to any gentle
mail interested in antiquarian researches.

ST. BRIDE'S NATIONAL SCHOOLS.—It will be seen by
the advertisement in another column that our excellent
Bishop is to preach at St. Bride's Church next Sunday mor-
ning and evening in aid of the funds of these schools, in
which there are at present nearly 600 children receiving in-
struction. This extra collection, we understand, is required
to discharge the expenses of fitting up, painting, and com-
pleting the school-rooms, and to settle the balance remaining
due to the treasurer.
The advices from Lancashire are not of a cheering cha-
racter. Messrs. T. and H. Crofts, of Liverpool, who are
concerned in the soap trade, have failed, and their liabilities
are supposed to amount to £45,000. The acceptances of
Messrs. Gisborne and Wilson, calico printers, of Manches-
ter, a firm of some importance, have been refused. The
London money-market has been in no wise influenced by
these occurrences, and it is expected in some quarters that
the Manchester house will satisfy all its creditors.—Times.
BAD HORSMANSHIP AND COOL BRUTALITY.—On Sunday
afternoon, Mr. Dowson, a foreign gentleman, requiring a
horse for the service of his lady, proceeded to the livery
stables of Messrs. Anderson and Brown, Mount-pleasant,
where he was in the habit of hiring horses. A fine spirited
and valuable horse, which had been a favourite hunter of the
late Sir Thomas Stanley, was shown to him and approved.
His servant, mounted it and set off home before his master.
It was observed by several individuals on the way, that the
man was a bad horseman, and more than one apprehended
mischief. At length, in St. Anne-street, the horse, having
gradually become more impatient of the mismanagement to
which he was subjected, darted against a shandry, the shaft
of which broke off and entered the chest of the horse.
Though the poor animal had the large splinter of the shaft
sticking in his breast, the brutal fellow who rode him con-
tinued to urge him forward as it' nothing had happened.
At length he was observed by police-officer 188, who seeing
the condition of the horse, stopped him, and dragged the
man from his back. The fellow, with thoughtless inhumanity,
seized the splinter and tore it from the wound. The blood
spouted forth as from a pump. Mr. Dawson at that moment
came, and discharged the fellow from his service on the spot.
Officer 188 led the horse by the bridle with the intention of
taking him to Mr. Bunnell's veterinary surgery. He had
not proceeded far, however, when he stopped, staggered, and
after reeling for a short time, fell. He struggled convulsively
for some minutes, and then expired. The value of the horse
would not be less than £5O. It had been hunted only the
week before, and came in first of the field.
FATAL ACCIDENT AT THE MOUTH OF THE Rivca.--We
regret to learn that an accident, attended with very serious
consequences, took place on Monday afternoon, in the Vic-
toria Channel. A small boat, such as those which usually
cruise about for employment from inward bound vessels, was
out on this errand on the day in question, when, from some
cause which we have not heard fully explained, it upset', and
the crew, consisting of four hands, were precipitated into the
water. One of them succeeded in keeping himself afloat by
means of two oars till he was picked up by another boat,
which fortunately happened to be near. Of the other three,
two sunk, and have not yet been recovered, and the third
died immediately on being taken out. An inqtrest was held
on Wednesday on view of the body of this man, whose name
was Owen Pritchard, when George Garlic, one of his com-
panions, deposed—that he was a boatman, that he lived in
Lumber-street, and that he knew the deceased very well.
About eleven o'clock on Monday morning last, the deceased,
witness, and two other men went out in a small boat as far
as the Formby lightship, to look for a vessel. They had been
out some time, and at length were proceeding towards Liver-
pool. It was blowing very fresh on their return, but they
had a fair wind. While they were coming along, a sea struck
the boat and upset her, in consequence of which they were
all thrown into the water. A man of the name of Edward
Newby was close to witness in the water, and in about a
quarter of an hour he sunk. Witness did not observe the
deceased and the other man after the boat had upset. A
boat came to their assistance, and witness was taken out of
the water. Just as he got into the boat he saw a man in the
act of sinking, and one of the men who had 'picked him up
seized hold of the drowning individual, whom witness then
recognised to be the deceased. He was taken into the boat,
and appeared to be dead. Such means were used by the men
in the boat as lay in the boat to bring him round, but they
were of no avail, animation having been quite extinct. Nei-
ther of the other two men who perished eould be found. The
deceased was brought to Liverpool, and carried home by
somc boatmen. He was 33 years of age. The jnry returned
a verdict to the effect that the deceased had died in the man-
ner described. The other two bodies have not yet been re-
covered, but the name of one of them has been ascertained to
be Edward Newby.
RELIEF OF THE POOR AT MANCHESTER.—The distress
which was known to exist amongst the poorer classes of this
populous and extensive district has excited the attention of
the clergy generally, and it is now decided that sermons be
preached in the different churches for the immediate relief of
the suffering poor. The first sermon for the above object
was preached on Sunday morning last. at Christ Church,
Salford, by the Rev. Hugh Stowell, M.A., when the collec-
tion amounted to upwards of £240, and we understand that
other sermons are to follow in quick succession. We most
sincerely hope that so worthy an example may be generally
followed.

SUPPOSED MURDER AT WARRINGTON.—A day or two
ago we gave some particulars of an inquiry before the coro-
ner, at Warrington, respecting the death of a young woman,
named Moulds, a dressmaker. It will be recollected that the
deceased was found suffocated in a ditch, on Sunday the 14th
instant. At the time of the inquest some suspicion attached
to a man named Gill, who had been seen with the deceased
on the Saturday night, but the jury did not find any verdict
inculpating him. A subsequent inquiry, however, took place
before the magistrates, on Saturday, the result of which was
his commitment to Kirkdale, to take his trial, on the charge
of wilful murder, at the next assizes for the county. We
have received a report of the evidence adduced before the
magistrates, but it is not necessary to publish it, as, for the
most part, it was a mere repetition of that taken before the
coroner. The additional facts which bore against the pri-
soner were that he was seen near the spot where the woman
was found about the time when it is supposed the murder
took place, and that the footsteps near the spot corresponded
with the shoes of the prisoner. A book belonging to the
woman was found at the prisoner's lodgings. It was also
stated that cries were heard near the spot about the time of
the murder. The prisoner is a native of Worcestershire, and
served his apprenticeship to Mr. William Whitley, iron-
founder, of Warrington. He is in the 27th year of his age,
and has been some time married to a young woman, a native
of Northwich, in Cheshire. He has one child living.
THE LATE CAPTAIN TOWNLEY.—This gallant seaman,
who died in this city, on the 3rd instant, after an illness of
three days, commanded her Majesty's nail-packet Merlin,
belonging to the Liverpool and Irish station, on which service
he had commanded government packets, under the Post-office
and Admiralty, for more than seventeen years. Mr. Town-
ley's perfect knowledge of navigating through the intricate
difficulties of the River Mersey, his firm and manly conduct
in all cases of emergency, more particularly when in com-
mand of the Avon, on her voyage to Liverpool from Kings-
town, during the great storm of January, 1839 (when lie re-
ceived several injuries on the head, with loss of blood, which
considerably impaired his constitution), added to his well-
known gentlemanly bearing, had secured for him the character
of a most efficient, trustworthy, and gallant officer, whose
professional services must ever he considered a serious public
loss. His fatal illness was contracted in the late storm of
tho 17th of October, during which he was lashed for 24 hours
to a wet deck, and thus lost his life, as he had spent it, in the
service of his country.—Dublin Paper.
RADICAL BRIBERY.—We have, on indubitable testimony,
the awkward fact, that the expenses on behalf of the liberal
candidate, in Pitt-street ward, at the last municipal election,
amounted to upwards of £4O, while those incurred by the
conservative committee did not exceed £9. And in what
way have the immaculate liberals run up all this extra ex.
pense? They never bribe, not they, innocent souls : they
never treat. But what says the landlord of the Vine Tavern
What vouchers has he to show for the correctness of his
bill ? Why, TICKETS FOR DRINK, varying from 2d. to
Bd. in value, and issued under the hand and seal of the com-
mittee, BESIDES ORDERS FOE. 200 BREAKFASTS. It is true,
that with characteristic shabbineis, after contracting the
debt, the liberals demur to the payment, and legal proceed-
ings have been adopted to enforce it. The tender of £25,
however, with which they have come forward as a compro-
mise, is a sufficient confession that a very considerable sum
has been laid out beyond the necessary expenses of the elec-
tion. We were not wrong in giving it as our opinion, from
the known character of the liberal party, that if it were at all
suspected that the conservatives were dealing in bribery,
great care would be taken that they should not have it all to
themselves.--Courier.
THE FINE ARTS.—The subscription books for the receipt
of names to the Postoffice Gallery fund for the encourage-
ment of the fine arts are now open. We sincerely hope that
the public will come forward to support the undertaking this
year. Last year the sum received was much under the
amount of other periods. We have been told, and we have
no reason to doubt our authority—that the artists do not ex-
ert themselves so much as they might in procuring subscri-
bers. We assure them that unless they are "up and do-
ing ", a still greater falling off will be found. Times are
bad, and though men may admire pictures—they love money
better.

HIGHW
last,AY ROBBERY
id AT ST, HELENS.—On Tuesda
night about mnight, a pig drover, named Johny M'Cale, was attacked by three men, and robbed of all the
money he had in his possession, which, fortunately, however,
was not a very large amount. At the time of the attack,
M`Cale was intoxicated, having been drinking at a public-
t house at a place called Blackbrook, distant about a mile and
a half from St. Helens, in company with a party of colliers,
some of whom are suspected of being the robbers. He was
proceeding to his lodgings, and had got about two hundred
yards from the public-house, when three men pounced upon
him, and cut out his trousers pockets, containing about 175.,
with which they decamped. Information of the robbery was
taken to the police office, St. Helens, on Wednesday morn-
ing, when police-serjeant Lloyd (No. 309), and police-con-
stable Green (No. 446), were speedily engaged in investiga-
ting the affair, and during the day three or four parties were
taken into custody on suspicion. INl'Cale identifies a man
named Tunstall, who has been apprehended, as one of the
parties who made the attack on him.

engineer

MEETING O MERCHANTS, SHIPOWNERS,' sic

MR. GAGE

S PLANS

••
A meeting was heldort Wednesday, at twelve o'clock,' at
the rooms of the Shipmasters' Association, for the purpose
of inspecting the plans of Mr. Gage relative to the forma
of a new dock or docks, and to a more economical andld-
vantageous method of laying out certain available land of the
Dock Estate. The meeting was attended by a number nt,
leading merchants, shipowners, and others interested in the'
subject to be considered. In consequence of the interest et.:
cited by the subject, Mr. Gage had been invited to attend for
the purpose of explaining to the meeting the plans which he
has submitted to the Dock Committee.
At twelve o'clock W. Rowett, Esq. was invited to take the
chair, Mr. Chapman having declined to do so. Mr. Gage bed
in the mean time taken his place, with his plans at the table.
The CHAIRMAN briefly introduced the subject to the
meeting observing that the Shipmasters' Association deemed
it a privilege that Mr. Gage had so readily consented to come
forward and explain his views.
Mr. GAGE proceeded to explain his views to the assembly-
As Mr. Gage's discourse was principally a commentary on
the plans which he introduced to notice, it will be difficult to
give a clear or comprehensive view of' his meaning. The
plans, which may be called the illustrations of his address,
which was necessarily very desultory, are wanting to its per-
fect illustration.
The first document introduced was an ingeniously-
constructed diagram' exhibiting, by means of fluxilineel.
curves, a view of the proportionate progressive increase of
tonnage in Liverpool and London. This showed the actual
amount of extraordinary increase, and the extraordinary
ratio of increase at certain periods. The lines in this diagram
show that London started above Liverpool in its tonnage,
and that for a number of years their increase was nearby Ps'
rallel—say from 1700 to 1780 ; from 1790 to 1800 a conside-
rable rise is perceptible ; but from 1800 and upwards the
curvature is of a different character alto other, the frequent
abrupt tendencies upward being most remarkable, till within
close upon the present period, when the line of Liverpool's
still rising, while that of London is falling. Mr. Gage said
lie introduced this diagram for the purpose of showing the
necessity of providing for the future. They might naturallY
look forward to an increase of tonnage in the same ratio as
formerly, and if it did come, what was to bccome of their
trade? It was the necessities of this, and the difficulties
which presented themselves, which caused him to investigate
the subject. On, glancing at the docks he observed, as any
person might observe, that they were extended over a very
wide space ; that they were in fact scattered. This had, no
doubt, arisen from their having been formed as they were
wanted. The time had come, however, when there was an
absolute necessity for the general design, some design
whereby the space at command should be laid out to the very
be.a advantage. Some of the gentlemen to whom he bad
submitted these designs had acknowledged that they were
good, but said, " The time is gone by—the die is cast—the
docks are made, and we cannot alter them." In reply to
this, he (Mr. Gage) said, " If your hands are tied up as re-
gards the past, why dont you begin when you can ?" (Hear.)
It was proper for those who had the power to adopt the plans
which would give the greatest quantity of loading and dis-
charging room. As he did not wish to rest on mere opi-
nions, he had taken surveys at given periods, which be would
now submit.

Mr. GAGE now opened a sheet containing plans of the
Prince's, Victoria, and Waterloo Docks, with the positions,
&c. of the vessels actually in them on the 28th of May, 1840.
The vessels which were on that day in such positions that the
business of discharging and loading could not go on, were
coloured grey ; those which were idle were coloured brown'
By far the larger proportion of vessels were shown to bay/
been idle.
Mr. GAGE next unfolded a sheet containing representa-
tions of the King's, Queen's, and various other docks, with
the vessels at work and those idle represented in like man-
ner. He observed that many gentlemen present had proba-
bly observed in his pamphlet an assertion that the Kings
Dock was the worst constructed dock in Liverpool, but that
the new dock, projected according to Mr. Hartley's plan,
would be worse than the King's Dock. The fault in the
King's Dock was that it had too much width. Mr. Gage
here referred to the representations of the King's Dock, with
the position of the vessels therein on a given day, and showed
not only the number unemployed, but the difficulties which
those employed would, when they had completed their busi-
ness, have in getting out through the great crowd of ship-
ping, clear of the dock. With the intended dock all these
mischiefs would be infinitely increased, not merely on acs
count of its shape, but of sundry other errors in its construc-
tion. This would be a central dock, and they were assured
that the central docks were all full while the others were com-
paratively empty. This was because of the proximity of the
central docks to the warehouses. Now, if the projected
dock were built in that shape, and were kept constantly full,
as they were assured it would be, it would follow that two-
thirds of the vessels in it would be constantly idle. This it
was plain would be a loss in exactly the same ratio to the
community. He had brought forward these statements,
however, simply to prove that the existing plan was not geed
for the despatch of business.
Mr. GAGE next produced a sheet containing Mr. Hart-
ley's plan, with the Salthouse, Canning, and Graving Docks,
and a plan of his own. Both occupied the same space, laid
out in different ways, the different results arising entirely
from the different arrangements. In Mr. Hartley's dock
Mr. Gage showed all the vessels which were, on the 28th
May, 1840, in the Prince's, and showed the number which
would be idle. He said there was an objection alone which,
in the opinion of all nautical men and those connected with
the dock affairs, was fatal. This was that, for the Canning,
Salthouse, and the New Dock, there was to the basin but
one entrance. Taking the largest of the vessels in the dock
in his compasses, he showed that if such a vessel was enter-
ing the New Dock, she would, when brought round and
hauling in, completely for the time being, block up the en-
trance and exit for all other vessels to and from the other
two docks. Mr. Gage proceeded to point out other incon-
veniences, and to allude to the expense of constructing new
docks for the Graving Docks. He also submitted another
plan in which the space was laid out in a different way. The
principal features in Mr. Gage's plan may be briefly stated
to be, first, the economising of the outward•quay space, and
next, the projection of piers or jetties, so as to increase con-
siderably the line or quay space. These jetties are very in-
geniously disposed. In the plan last alluded to Mr. Gage
stated that he had acquired an increase of one acre and three
quarters of water, 926 yards or 63 per cent. lineal nuaY 'Pace'
and a considerable quantity of increased warehouse room.
The Dock Committee, Mr. GAGE said, had these plans
before them, and the objection which they made was, that
they both included the Salthouse Dock, which they were de-
termined to keep. He was therefore requested to draw a
plan confining himself to the space intended for the new dock.
Mr. JOSEPH BROOKS YATES here asked Mr. Gage if the
plans had been seen by the Dock Committee before they
applied to parliament.
Mr. GAGE said, he showed his plans to Mr. Hartley, by
desire of Mr. Evans, before the bill was applied for. Mr.
Evans observed to him, that he would get plenty of support-
ers, if it were merely to oppose his (Mr. Evans) views re-
specting dock warehouses. Mr. Gage disavowed any hos-
tility to the measure for building dock warehouses. He
proceeded to say that he followed the instructions of the
Dock Committee, and produced a plan in which he gained
740 yards, or 88 per cent. of lineal quay room, 11 acres of
water, and much additional warehouse room. Mr. Gage
exhibited the plan. The entrance to the dock was in front,
and independent of the basin, and the jetties ran down the
centre, so as to admit of the ship being easily berthed, and of
the goods being quickly carted off. The committee said this
was a good dock, but not having a lock was fatal to it. He
replied that they had not in other cases, when they had en-
trusted a great amount of valuable property, thought a lock
necessary. They entrusted even their steamers without a
lock, to a dock where the stream was more powerful than at
the portion of the river now in question. However, he
showed them that his principle would admit of a lock, and he
accordingly drew two other plans with locks. Mr. Gage
exhibited the first of these plans and pointed out its advan-
tages. He then showed the second, which he preferred.
The jetties in this formed a horse-shoe basin, In this he
said there was a great facility of moving vessels.
Two of the Dock-masters were present, and made frequent
observations. One of them appeared favourable to Mr.
Gage's plans ; the other opposed. The latter now took ob-
jection to the curved wall, which he said would he inconve-
nient, and would throw ships not having quay berths to too
great a distance. Mr. GAGE said the curve would be so
slight as scarcely to be perceptible.
Mr. YATES said, if a vessel could land her goods as a se-
cond and third vessel from the quay, she could land them at
a curved wall.
Mr. CHAPMAN observed, that the foemer acts were ob-
tained for the safety of vessels, as well as for the facilities of
trade : the present act was obtained with a view to the des-
patch of businesi. They had water space—what they wanted
was quay room.
Mr. YATES said Mr. Gage's plans gave both water space
and quay room.
Mr. CHAPMAN alluded to the circuitous line of the pro-
posed warehouses on the west side of the intended dock. The
committee were tied not to build on the opposite side for
some years to come. Hence it was impossible to get an en-
trance to the Mersey. He showed the danger of such a con-
tinued unbroken line in case of fire, and the advantage of
taking a portion of the buildings from the middle thereof and
putting it at the north-west angle.
Mr. GAGE next produced a plan which he said he deemed
the most desirable of the whole. He had in this treated the
whole space between the Duke's Dock and George's Dock
basin as if it were blank, with the exception of the baths,
which were not to be touched. Mr. Gage showed the vast
quantity of space wasted, or covered with buildings, ware-
houses and quays, of comparatively little public use. He
wished to direct attention to the result of his mode of arrang-
ing this space, which afforded more landing and discharging
room than all the docks put together. He was not astonished
at persons being sceptical on this point. All the vessels in-
troduced into the plan were taken from actual survey, and he
could give any person who desired it the name and position
of each when the survey was taken. It is impossible by any
mere description to convey a notion of this plan. The docks,
however. we may observe, are packed as it were side by side,
with the requisite quay space between cap's, their ends being
placed towards the river, with the requisite openings at con-
venient points. They all open into each other, but pf tiro
numerous conveniences and niceties of arrangement we can
give no notion. Mr. Gage observed that her Majesty's ship
Trafalgar could traverse all the docks.
Mr. Gage, in conclusion, said, having shown clearly that
the space could be had, the question was, would it be wanted ?
He thought he had shown that clearly enough by his fluxi-
lineal curves. Mr. Gage proceeded to show that in his
views the space would be wanted almost immediately. He
thought we ought not to give way to the croaking cry that
Liverpool had obtained her maximum and would go down,
for some people did not hesitate to say so : but it was an idea
which he would not for a moment countenance. (Cheers.)
With all the facilities which had been introduced of late
years of steam and other advantages, were they to expect Li-
verpool to stand still? It was plain that the progress was
onward, and such being the case it was their duty to provide
for future exigencies.
The CHAIRMAN reminded the meeting that Mr. Hartley
was invited to be present at that meeting. He would not
judge or condemn Mr. Hartley unheard, and perhaps he
could yet give them an exposition of his views.
Mr. GAGE said he should be extremely happy to meet Mr.
Hartley in discussion on the subject.
One of the dock masters observed that Mr. Gage's plan
did not contain any graving docks.
Mr. GAGE said he was drawing a plan with graving docks,
Mr. YATES observed that the carpenters were so far re-
moved from this vicinity that the question of graving docks
here required consideration.

A memorial was read by the Secretary of the Shipmasters'
Association. It was addressed to the Dock Committee. After
pointing out the views of the Association touching the several
plans submitted by Mr. Gage, it goes to task the committee
o refer all those plans to the judgment of some superior

On the motion of Captain Finlay, seconded by Mr. Charles
Reed, Esq., the memorial was adopted.
Mr. A. F. JONES' who described himself as a practical
shipbuilder, who had been an observer of docks from his
ot
fh
aGnangeed' np- exceedingly inconvenient and straggling,
childhood, spoke
etxhiestliinigghdensetktseramnsd
bei sbyplAanirs:
space most wastefully. The great error, he
aHnaddr t
nlceeoyen,n
paeys n g
said,an of having their entrances crossing each other at right
angles, which was visible in the King's Dock, was repeated in
Mr. Hartley's plan.
Mr. YATES, after a few words in favour of the plans of
Mr. Gage, recommended that they should be made public.
Mr. GAGE said he was about to have them printed.
On the motion of Mr. YATES, seconded by Mr. JoNEs,
the thanks of the meeting were voted to Mr. Gage.
Mr. GAGE returned his acknowledgments.
On the Motion of Mr. GAM, seconded by Mr. YATES,
thanks were voted to the Chairman, and the meeting broke up.