The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-05-26 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.-THURSDAY.

Lord Howden took the oaths, and subscribed to the par-
.
hamentary roll.
The second reading of the insane prisoners bill was moved
and carried by Lord NORMANBY.

FINANCES.

Lord RIPON', after a speech in which he took a view of
the financial state of the country, particularly as it would be
be affected by a war with China, moved for some returns re-
lating to the revenue.
Lord MELBOURNE said, that the part of the noble earl's
speech which he (Viscount Melbourne) thought was very valu-
able, and that which he thanked the noble earl for delivering
—for it was always beneficial to bring before the country such
views as were wise, and salubrious, and useful, and beneficial
in themselves, whatever might be their application to exist-
ing facts,—was that pOrtion of the noble lord's speech where
he said that the government had resolved to carry on the
financial affairs of the country without a surplus revenue ;
that, perhapS, if the existing taxes should produce a surplus,
they might apply it to the purposes to which a surplus
is applicable ; but that the system of the government was to
do without a- surplus. Now, he must say, this was a very
difficult question in financial affairs. The principle of finance
some time ago was that there should be a surplus. Mr.
Huskisson moved in 1819, a resolution of the other house,
that there ought always to be a surplus of £5,000,000. That
was carried by a great majority. But it was unquestionably
true, that great financial difficulties had followed •, great
pressure had been felt all over the country ; these difficulties
had forced the government to recede from that principle. In
fact, it was found impossible to maintain it, and it appeared
to him (Viscount Melbourne) at present to be a difficult
question whether they ought to tax for the purpose of creat-
ing a surplus, or whether they ought only to raise taxes suffi-
cient to meet the current expenditure of the coun-
try, and leave all the capital 'beyond that to do what
the noble earl treated with so much ridicule, namely, to
fructify in the pockets of the country. That was a phrase
which the noble earl said he did not understand. It was first
used, however, by the late president of the board of trade.
By so leaving capital in the hands of the people, he (Viscount
Melbourne) questioned whether they did not leave the people
greater capability of meeting any extraordinary effiarts that
might be required, than would have been displayed if it had
previously been exhausted by taxation. At the same time,
he must say, that this was not a question which he under-
stood sufficiently to presume to give a decided answer to it
at present. On this occasion he would only add, that he
trusted it would be seen that the measures proposed by her
majesty's government were the best for the country. He
had no objection to the production of the papers moved for
by the noble earl.
Lord AsnsuirroN contended, that they ought to maintain
a surplus in order to justify the contracting of a debt in time
of war, and in order to make provision for sudden emergen-
cies. It was ably stated in one of Mr. Huskisson's speeches,
that it was necessary to have a surplus in order to make pro-
vision for the ordinary fluctuations of the revenue ; for he
observed that, with a revenue of £50,000,000, a fluctuation
to the extent of 10 per cent must be calculated on. He (Lord
Ashburton) considered this the most important question that
could occupy the attention of the legislature ; and he had so
good an opinion of the honesty and common sense of the
people of this country, that he believed, if they were fairly
talked with and reasoned with as they were in the days of
Pitt and Huskisson, they would willingly submit to make
those provisions which were necessary for the security and
independence of the nation. He wished to know whether
the treaty with France was likely soon to be arranged, so
that provision might be made for it during the present session.
Lord MELBOURNE replied, that it was impossible to say
how soon the negotiations would be concluded.
Lord ASIIBURTON supposed he was to understand that the
treaty could not be executed without an act of parliament.
Lord MELBOURNE : Of course, not.—The returns moved
for were then agreed to, and the house adjourned at a quarter
to eight o'clock.