The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1849-10-30 00:00:00

COUNCIL MEETING.--(Continued from page 3)

The Town-clerk then explained that' the special water com-
mittee were sitting last Thursday for the purpose of reading
over their report, thinking that the whole matter was at an end,
but about half-past three o'clock the resolutions referred to
were brought into the room by Messrs. Rushton, Gladstone,
and Bold. The resolutions were dated 25th October, 1849, J.
R. Jeffrey in the chair. The two first resolutions were agreed
to without any alteration, but the third he (with consent of the
committee) altered to " That an application be made to parlia-
ment in the next session, for an act to amend the Water Works
Act of 1847 ; and at the foot of the resolutions he (the Town-
clerk) wrote the words " and that the works be stayed," &C.
These resolutions as so altered, Messrs. Rushton, Gladstone,
and Bold took away with them, and shortly afterwards re-
turned, stating that all had been ageed to except the word
" stayed," as the parochial committee preferred the word
" stopped."
The MAYOR directed the attention of the Council to the fact
that on comparing the two letters from Avison and Pritt,. now
before the Council, they would find that there was an evident
inconsistency in them. One letter stated that they had not yet
been able to appoint an engineer, whilst the other protested
against the whole proceeding.
The TOWN-CLERK said that the object of the special commit-
tee was to embody the name of the gentleman who was to be
named on the part of the parish in their report, and that gen-
tleman was to be named, if possible, to the mayor to-day.
Mr. HOLT, in continuation, said that be was in hopes that they
were to adopt the report of the committee in peace; but he re-
ally did not know what to do now. It was reidly like a bye-
play ; a sort of mockery— [Here the speaker and the council
came to a dead stand; nothing could be observed but mem-
bers going hither and thither; consultations, murmurs, and all
the buz of gossip being the only business thought of. It would
seem as if the protest of Messrs. Avison and Pritt had put the
worthy aldermen and councillors to their wits' end. In the
course of about seen or eight minutes,
The MAYOR said that the better course for Mr. Holt to pur-
sue would be to gO on in the spirit of good faith on behalf of the
Water Committee; to make his recommendation according to
that spirit, and to put aside all that had occurred in the Coun-
cil. After that let the blame rest where it should fall, but at
all events let the Council stand fairly before the public in the
matter.

Alderman D. HODGSON wished. to know if that letter came
from the Parochial Committee, or if it came only from Messrs.
Avison and Pritt?

Mr. PROCTOR observed, that Avison and Pritt were the re-
cognised legal men belonging to the Parochial Committee;
the men who were to go with the Town clerk for the act of
Parliament.

Mr. HOLT again rose, and said that the principle upon which
they had made the attempt to settle this question was the only
principle upon which it ever could be settled—namely, arbi-
tration. On that principle both parties were agreed ; and he
could assure the Parochial Committee that if they were only to
keep to their terms, there would be every disposition on the
part of the Water Committee to meet them fairly. (Hear,
hear.) Then with regard to Glasgow, he thought that a better
arrangement of this question might be made than what had
been glanced at in the report of Messrs. Haigh and Newlands ;
but he did not think to discuss these points in the Council,
inasmuch as their publicity would take away their chance of
bringing about those desirable ends: which they all so much
desired. He would ask for the confidence of the Council to be
given to whatever committee might be entrusted with the
carrying out of the propositions which he was about to lay
before them; for, although he knew that their duties would be
arduous, yet he had a strong opinion that something better
than what had yet been glanced at would be done; and,
therefore, the committee which would have this to carry
out should have their full confidence. (Hear, hear, hear.)
Messrs. Haigh and Newland's did not glance at a very
important part of the subject. It was quite possible, and
indeed he thought highly probable that the Rivington scheme
would go on. The report of Messrs. Haigh and:Newlands did
not embrace that important point, and it was to that he alluded.
The special committee had made great sacrifices of opinion in
their endeavours to carry out this arbitration ; they had done
all that could be done with regard to testing the wells, having
carefully examined all the evidence on that subject, from that
of Jones, the well sinker, to the President of the Geological
Society; but still they were willing to give up their convictions
on that point, and place the matter in the hands of arbitrators,
for the sake of peace. During the course of the negotiations
the committee had much:anxiety ; their minds were very much
perplexed, but they were very much indebted to Messrs.
Rushton, Gladstone, and Bold for the help they had received
from them. (Hear, hear.) The town was much indebted to
these gentlemen, for by their assistance a channel had been
opened by which the question might have been settled in a
manner in which neither party would have had a victory, and
neither have suffered a defeat. (Applause.) The thanks of
the town were eminently due to these gentlemen. On/the 15th
of October every thing had been settled except the point in-
volved, and the suspension of the contracts; but he was much
surprised at seeing an advertisement in the Mercury, of the
22nd instant, signed Richard Harbord, informing the people
that nothing beyond the preliminaries had been settled
at that time, and making an electioneering cry of the
matter. Under the circumstances in which they were
placed—endeavouring as it were to obtain a settlement of the
vexed question, such a proceeding was unwarrantable in the
extreme. (Hear, hear, from Mr. Holme.) In all that the
Special Committee had done they were actuated by no feelings
whatever but those of peace and honesty; and it was really too
bad after all having been agreed to, everything settled as they
thought, to be rest with a protest against the whole of their
proceedings. It was disheartening; it was positively dis-
heartening to find parties going from their agreements in this
manner. What could they do of a public nature to give satis-
faction, if they were to be met in such a manner as that?- In
the few remarks which he had made he had cautiously avoided
discussing the water question itself, because it formed no part
of the present business. Mr. H. then concluded by moving
to the following effect :—That the Proceedings, Resolutions,
and Reports of the Water Committee he approved of, and that
it be referred to the Special Water Committee to carry them
into effect; and that it be an instruction to the committee to
make such arrangements with the contractors as they may
deem expedient, and that the necessary notices be given for
an Act to amend, alter, and extend the compulsory clauses of
hie Water Act of 1817 ; and further, that Mr. Fairbairn be ap-
pointed engineer, to arbitrate on the water question on behalf
of the Corporation.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE having seconded the motion, and
after a few words of explanation from Messrs. BENNETT and
FREME,
Alderman PROCTOR begged to ask the Town clerk, if any
decision come to to-day, at this late period of the municipal
The TOWN-CLERK observed that any future Council might
do what it pleased on this or any other subject.
Alderman PROCTOR said that showed what folly it was for
them to come and discuss matter that a future Council would
have to deal with. He was glad to hear Mr. Holt claim the
confidence of the Council for-the committee, which would soon
have to be appointed. What he (Mr. P.) said was :—Let this
matter be referred to the new committee altogether. He would
take Mr. Holt at his word: he-would join issue with him, and
say let the whole matter be placed in the hands of that coin- 1
mittee, for which their confidence had already been bespoken.
It appeared to him as absurd, now upon the 29th of October,
to, be discussing a question of such importance, when they
knew that a few days must seriously affect whatever decision
they might then come to. With this view, he would, there-
fore, propose, as an amendment :—" That the report, resolu-
tions, and proceedings of the Special Committee, now pre-
sented to the Council, be received and referred to a committee,
to be appointed on the 9th of November next, and that the
Town-clerk be now instructed to prepare the necessary notices
for an application to Parliament, in the ensuing session, for an
Act to extend the time for the- compulsory taking of land for
the Rivington works, and for all necessary powers for extend-
ing the street pipeage and means of distribution, and the appli-
cation of water for the existing works, including the Green-
lane Works, and also for improving and extending the works
at Green-lane, and for such other additional powers and pro-
visions as are necessary for extending and enlarging the present
powers of the Corporation and- of the Council with reference to
the supply and distribution of water; and, also, to charge the
Borough fund as an additional collateral security for money
borrowed on the Liverpool water account and the interest
thereof, and for altering the rates, now authorized to be levied
and received; and, if necessary, for the abandonment of an
act, engagement, or contract, already entered into with refer-
ence to the Liverpool Corporation Waterworks Act of 1847."
In conclusion, he would ask if Mr. Holt would agree to this ?
Mr. Hour—Oh, no. I have put my resolution.
Mr. WOODRUFF seconded the amendment.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE, after what had occuared, did not see
the use in going on at all. He would leave the matter till after
the 9th of November.
Mr. Annie also concurred in this view of the case, for if they
even went on to approve of their report it would be of no use,
because the other side were not consenting parties to it. There
was, however, a third way of settling this question, which had
never occurred to the minds. of the gentlemen deliberating on
this question—that was to ascertain how many pipes might be
cast in a specified time, and—if lam out of order Mr. Town-
Clerk I will say no more.
The TOWN-CLERK said that the particulars of any mode of
the-kind might be prejudicial to the corporation.
Mr. At mei—Well then, I will say no more.
Mr. HOLT had no objection to add that the works be not
I gone on with till after the 9th of November.
Alderman PROCTER.—That is as much as to say that Mr.
Aiken, who has every probability of walking out of Castle-
street Waid, and Mr. George Hall Lawrence—(cries of order,
order)—l wish to show the unreasonableness of the proposition
of-Mr. Holt. I meant no offence to Mr. Aiken, or any person.
The MAYOR.—You said that there was a probability of his
doing so.
Alderman PROCTER.--I did not mean it in that sense.

The MAYOR.—WiII you, Mr. Holt, adopt Mr. Procter's
amendment.
Alderman Nicot.—Oh no.
Mr. AIKEN thought it would be better if they were to treat
the matter as an adopted motion altogether.
Alderman HODGSON suggested that the better way would be
to let the report lie on the table till after November, as they
were in this exceedingly awkward position with regard to the
contracts that they did not know one half of the cost they were
likely to be under in negotiating them. If Mr. Procter and
Mr. Holt could agree, he should like to see such an agreement
come to.
ifr. C. H. LA 12rR InTer: trent.eti with-hlaprrAm, lansiesaw.. Sok.
long as all was nranimous he agreed with all that had been
done, but now that the proceedings had been repudiated he
could not think of going on. If they did so it would be putting
them in a very unfair position.
Mr. HOLT then, after some further discussion, amended his
resolution as follows :—" The proceedings, resolutions, and
reports of the special water committee, comprising the report
of the negotiation. with the parochial water committee for the
settlement of the water question, having been read,—Resolved,
That the same be approved, excluding the report of the com-
mittee, dated 25th instant, and any resolution connected there-
with, and such report and resolution received and directed to
be laid before the Council for consideration at the meeting of
the committee to be holden on the 9th November. That notice
for a bill in parliament be given, for the several purposes men-
tioned in the report of the committee, of the 25th instant, and
also for the purposes on this subject already sanctioned by the
Council."
After a few words from Mr. HORNBY'
Mr. S. HoLME rose and said, that he freely confessed that he
had read the report which had been issued by the speciatwater
committee with feelings of pain, because he felt satisfied that
the recommendations which were then made for the sake of
peace would be the means of binding down the future Council
to the agitation which would take place on this question, and it
would have the effect of involving the future Council in an
amount of cost which but few people had any idea of. There
were two recommendations in the report. One was with re-
ference to the appointment of arbitrators. On this point it
was necessary to effect anything that both parties should be
sincere in entering into the agreement. He had heard with
pain the letter which had been read that morning, and he hesi-
tated not to say that it would be better for the Council to let
the proceeding drop altogether, and let the responsibility of
failure or success fall upon those who were the means of this
agitation, for he said that it was impossible for any honourable
mind to come to any, other conclusion than that there were
gentlemen who did not desire the settlement of the water ques-
tion. They could not keep faith with those gentlemen; they
would not allow themselves to do so. In the report of Messrs.
Haigh and Newlands, he was told that a suspension of the con-
tracts for three months would cost .e 11,500, and if they re-
quired a suspension for six months, many thousands more
would have to be expended. Then with regard to the aban-
donment of the works, which was the only object sought—if they
should decide on proceeding with Rivington, £24,000 would
have to be thrown away for the sake or peace, and that, too, by
the gentlemen who were always the trumpet advocates of eco-
nomy.—(Hear, hear.) And if parliament should decide against
the opinion of reterces—(supposing that opinion to be against
the Pike)—that we should go on with our works, and keep our
bill there, what position would we be in by the abandonment of
our contracts, and the consequent loss of our moneys? They
could not even go to Breen-lane without an Act of Parliament.
Had they money, or had they power to borrow money to defray
the cost of the proposed suspension, and proposed operations
to test the home yield? If these engineers merely gave their
opinions, why their opinion would be worth but little; but it
they were to have the power of boring, Plain Welts. ttad

Oct. 30,

l
amakingnd a tunnels,considerable
Pb
e (Hit
os
their disposal. In doing this, they did not take the Ing
consideraion, that whilst these experiments were g° ter. 11
the town would in a great measure be deprived of water,
the
they added the cost of the suipension of the contract_„ent
cost of going to parliament, and then add theamount tol;4re.
in testing the present supply they would be confirroinf ;1,0,
position for spendino. a sum of money, the aggr.egate,l„ be
when known, woulebe looked upon with surprise. be dit,
to the decision of the town ; but he would not say that tion to
so cheerfully. He must say that it was not his rote coarse
vote on the question at all, for he thought that the best
would be to let the responsibility be on those who hail
°One°
this matter on their own shoulders. Seeing that otie;
were not prepared to keep faith with the Council, he, "wesh,
was not inclined to vote at all on the subject; for thel
leave those gentlemen to grapple with that giant wli'
had now raised up for themselves. (Applause.) of Mr'
Mr. PARKER was entirely opposed to the mot," con'
Holt. He thought it would be better to defer the furtherr,
sideration of the whole matter till after the 9th of Nove
Eiw,lr,`,.. uld,
Mr. BENNETT understood that the motion of Mr. tb of
confirm all the proceedings, except the report of the'l3 the
October; and the motion of Mr. Procter merely slier ge
whole of the proceedings back to the 9th of NovemheL, res.
opposed the passing of their proceedings because of raZtbel
''
son which had been advanced by Mr. Nicol, who said 'ir con'
were not bound to report to t` e Council till it suited theupt,
venience to do so. Were no monies expended, to any am
to shackle the Rivington upon us ? (No, no.)
The TOWN-CLERK.--NOt more than a few pounds. oil
Mr. BENNETT—Then why is Mr. Nicol so anxious to_ao
the proceedings confirmed? Mr. Hawksley, in his letter,Ttber
a great deal of what had been done in giving notice and
thTheings. O t
TOWN-CLERK.—There has not been a notice given
landholder since November, 1818. of tbe
BENNETT would vote against the confirmation „not
proceedings, as they contained matter of the greatest
to the town. As regarded this report he had a few words; 01"
(Loud cries of vote.) He would object to the confirrosou
thMre roceedings.
p.
T. L. Honosox asked, if it was not of the utilloslwith
portance that the committee should be empoweredtotrea.,4
the contractors immediately, as their offer of negotiation r"
end to-day. to rnalce
Mr. H. HORNBY.—Pooh, pooh, we will be able t,
good, if not better, terms after Nwernber than at pregnant
After some further discussion, the amendment was P •
lost. The numbers being:—
For the amendmen: 25
Against it 27
The following membersA‘l. te 2
oajodri : ty
Wonk
For the amendfnent,—CouncillorsLangsdale,Walthevr,,inor
ruff, Preston, Hodson, Briscoe, Ferguson, Toulmin, Itr,nneLts
Rogers, Wagstaff, Kaye, Gardner, Neil, Johnson, jolt],
Parker, Freme, Beckwith, and Hindley. Aldermen:
Holmes, J. Lawrence, Henderson, Proctor, and Bent.,ioofinf
Against,—Councillors: Morris, Stitt, Tyrer, G. 1-1. "gone,
Littledale, Aikin. Holt, Hornby, Bell, Bit:timer, S•
Booker, Lloyd, G. H. Lawrence, Watson, Mann, and'lin- de,
Aldermen: D. Hodgson, Swainson, T. B. Horsfall, Nice`,
Cooper, Wood, Molyneux, Turner, and the Mayor. „f
The original motion, or rather the amended motion, "
Holt, was then put and carried.
The numbers were,—
For the motion
Against it 23
_- 5
Majority
The annexed is an analysis of the vote „vrer,
For the motion,—Councilors : Langdale, Morris, Stitt! mar,
G. H. Horsfall, Littledale, Aikin, Holt, Hornby, Bell, nano,
S. Holme, Booker, Lloyd, G. H. Lawrence, Watson„,, taib
and Fisher. Aldermen :D. Hodgson, Swainson, T. B. 11% the
Nicol, Sands, Cooper, Wood, Molyneux, Turner, an
i"
Mor. T.
Aqainst,—Conncillors Walthew, Woodruff, Presto'', Wag'
Hodson, Briscoe. Ferguson, Toulmin, Robinson, Rogeru'oer'
staff, Gardner, Neil, Johnson, Bennett, Parker, Freine, fence,
with, and Hindley. Aldermen: John Holmes, J. Law"
Henderson, Procter, and Bent. otbel
Mr. BENNETT intimated that he intended to move 10(fi the
amendment ; but as his motion was a direct negative refore
motion of Mr. Holt, it could not be put, and was the
withdrawn.
ied nts

This being all the business, the Council adjourno
quarter to three o'clock, p.m.

THE COST OF OUR PU LIC B ATI3S .11:517
WASHHOUSES.

ort'
These establishments, although not quite self-suPP be
ing during the past year, have been so little costly t° tea
corporate estate as quite to warrant their conternP'
extension. It would be difficult to imagine in what,
4
:414
at so small an outlay, so great a good could be neniet,.:eet
upon our working population. The Frederic K-510,
establishment has cost £506 12s. 4d. during the )001
some of the expenditure, however, appearing to be to
description which cannot occur every year. The
for the use of baths and washing utensils has been the
2s. 7d., leaving a deficiency of £B9 9s. 9d., paid fr°ll'cost
borough fund. The Paul-street establishment hag try
£987 lls. Bd., some of the expenditure being also es jog
ordinary ; and income has been £823 Is. 3d., lea
1
a deficiency of £164 10s. sd.