The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-01-19 00:00:00

the chair on this occasion

He might mention, as a some.
that-Mr. Gladstone's father hac

ng.by which the Ophthal•
mic Infirmary was established; and it was not a little re•
markable that his son should have presided at the junction
of it with at -
The moti

carried' unanimously

Ir. GL ADS'

ity of equal utility.
by Sir JOIIN SALUSBURY, anC

Separated they could scarcely

be expected to prospe

hilst they were of im-rneose.value to the

munity, they would not fail-to receive that support, as a cha-
rity, for which the -Liverpool were proverbial.
Before the meeting was dissolved, he begged to propose, that
the best thanks of the meeting should be tendered to Mr.
Hugh Neill, for the exertions he had made, and the great in-
terest he had taken, in these two institutions, which he
trusted would still be continued to them ; and especially fin
the anxiety he had evinced to have the two institutions
united, which had been deemed to be a matter of so much
importance.—This was unanimously agreed to.
Mr. NEILL having briefly expressed his thanks, the meet-
.

iug separated.

THE WELSH BISHOPRICS

MEETING OF THE FRIENDS AND NATIVES OF THE MIN

CIPALITY

Yesterday, at twelve o'clock, a meeting of the friends
natives of the Principality, resident in Liverpool, was hel
the Clarendon Rooms, for the purpose of forming a pry

sional committee, and of taking into consideration

priety of ca'

ueeting, to memorialize the Quec
petition the legislature against the proposed union of tl
of St. Asaph and Bangor, which measure is to.l
liament during the approaching session.

brought before I

I that a considerable portion of the

ive any thi

had refused U.
;CRIDER.—What proporth
DAMAN thought about two-third
A.suttEit (Mr. Hadwer,) read a statement of his
It appeared that the expenditere for the past
iad amounted to £735 3s. The annual subscriptions
vere .I.:710 175., and the total receipts £764 lls. ed. The
Inc to the bank was stated to be .X 3051 13s. 7d.
they appear in the advertise-

resolut

,sign on each, were then

refer our readers to the advertisement for them

Mr. C. S. PARKER said, that in accordance with the no-
tice giyen at the last general meeting of proprietors, and re-
pentant the circular =cc:ling:the present meeting, he rose

to move—
" That the garden be entirely closed on Sundays, in ac-
cordance with the resolutions passed on the 3d of May, 1802,
which were unanimously confirmed on the 2d of May, 1808,
and which remained in force till the 2d of May, 1814."
He regretted that this resolution had not been moved by
some proprietor better qualified to support it; but his regret
was lessened by the recollection of the able, the high-tohed,
and the successful manner in which the principles of the Di-
vine authority and perpetual obligation of the Sabbath had
been maintained, at the three meetings which the proprietors
had lately held, for the purpose of deciding the kindred, but
nre important question, whether the public should be a&
dto the gardens on Sunday. The higher arguments
'lle to both branches of the subject having been so
discussed, not only among themselves,
uncil and out of doors, he should confine
Jbservations on the special question before
Ae was happy to be able to state, that in most
botanical institutions in the country, the gar-
s were entirely closed. on Sunday. Amorig others might
named the Edinburgh, Oxford, Sheffield, Manchester,
And Glasgow gardens, and the gardens now for Ming by the
Royal Botanic Institution of London, in the Regent Park.
e held xis hand a letter from the curator of the Horti-
'turd t. .dens at Chiswick, from which he would read an

ie held in

He wa

" I beg to inform you that no member is admitted to the
Horticultural Society's Garden on a Sunday, except by an
order from the Council, and I do not recollect of an instance,
since the garden was established, of such an order being
granted. Sundays, Good Friday, and the three exhibition
days, the right of the members is suspended. Kew and
Chelsea are both shut on Sunday and Good Friday. The
Zoological Garden is open on Sunday to the members who
can each take two friends with him ; the consequence is, the
garden is choke full on tine days in summer. A member
goes out and in as often as he pleases. Every time he goes
in he takes two of his friends ; this has become a great nui-
sance, and they are straining every nerve to do away with it,
but cannot accomplish it, as it reduces their income very
much, besides keeping men to wait upon the company, at

extra pa

The Liverpool gardens had also been rigidly closed during
their twelve most early and prosperous years, and it was clear
this regulation could not have bad its origin (as might be
surmised) in any spirit of bigotry or illiberality, for on the
list of its founders and promoters they found the respected
names of William Roscoe, Dr. Currie, Dr. Shepherd, the
Rev. John Yates, Dr. Traill, William Rathboue, Thomas
Earle, James Cropper, anda host of others, whom thatmeet-
lug would acquit of any feeling of bigotry or illiberality. It
was proved that the proposition now made was no innova-
tion, but merely a recurrence to old and sound English prin-
ciples ,as maintained by other similar institutions, whilst they
had been separating from them, and perhaps taking a lesson
from their French neighbours. The opening of the gardens
on Sundays to the higher classes held out a dangerous example'
to the lower, and offeted grounds for a plausible argument in

favour of throwing open Co the public riot only the doors of
our own, but of other scientific institutions. if the Botanic
Garden was open, it would be asked why should the Zoolo-
gical be closed ? ' If these two places were accessible on Sun-

days, why should not the Museums and Picture Galleries, as
proposed by Mr. Hume in the House of Commons? and
from thence we might be conducted step by step through the

lecture room and the concert room, to the balls and theatres,
and pyrotechnic displays of a Parisian Sabbath. He thought,
therefore, that the only firm and consistent ground from
which to resist such innovations was to be found by retracing

their steps, mid closing the gardens entirely. He should
give only one more reason for closing the gardens upon the
Sabbath, and then conclude. According to the existing re-
gulations, the servants of the institution were compelled to
attend the gardens every Sunday throughout the year. He
did not think the proprietors were justified in thus depriving
their servants of their privilege of hallowing the Sabbath, by
the worship of God and the religious instruction of their fa-
milies, and of that rest and liberty which the Sunday should
bring to all, and most of all to the labouring classes. Mr.
Parker concluded by moving the resolution.
The Rev. Dr. TATTERSHALL esteemed it a privilege to
rise and second the motion just proposed by Mr. Parker.
He had now been resident in Liverpool a considerable num-
ber of years, and it had not been a habit of his to take much
part in the various discussions which had arisen during his
residence; and if he broke through his usual habit on this
occasion, it was because he thought the particular subject
which now interested that meeting one in which at least he
should be forgiven if he expressed the deepest possible con-
cern. It was the cause of religion. He should ever consider
it his duty to do all in his power for the furtherance of that
which he held to be for the best interest of religion in Liver-
The observance of the Sabbath day was far less than

many other matters with which religion was connected a
subject matter of speculation ; it was a matter of religious
practice—it was a matter of religious obedience. We had
the distinct command of Almighty God—our Creator, that
the Sabbath should be hallowed by us. The sanctification
of the Sabbath was not a matter of arbitrary appointment ;
it was not a matter connected merely with the Jewish cere-
monial ; but it was coeval with the creation and the prin-
ciple -

_
Id design of it were as unchangeable as the character
of Almighty God himself. The perpetual obligation of the
Lord's Day, or more properly, of the Sabbath, was sufficiently
evinced by the circumstance of its not being dependent, in any
wise upon the Jewish ceremonial. But in addition to this he
would observe. that one of the Lord's prophets had dis-
tinctly said, and that too in relation to Christian times—

" If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath from doing
thy pleasure on my holy day, and call the sabbath a delight,
the holy of the Lord honourable, and, shalt honour it,
not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure,
nor speaking thine own words, then shalt thou de-
light thyself in the Lord." OUr blessed Saviour also
himself had told us that he came not to destroy- the law
and the prophets, but to fulfil them. •There might, he ad-
mitted, arise changes in the proper mode of the observance
of the Sabbath; there might be, and,lndeed, there must be
a difference as to the manner of its observance, arising out
of the altered condition in which the Church of God was
placed, in consequence of the increasing light of successive
revelations. The form of worship, under a former dispensa-
tion, was not to he continued when we were instructed to

adopt a more spiritual mode of worship under the present
dispensation. Moreover, with regard to the day which was
set apart for this purpose, we had inspired example, ►it least,
for the change from the seventh day to that which was HOW
observed, namely, the first Clay ; but there were no changes
which could be considered arbitrary and of our own choice.
Where we had tl►e express directions of the word of God, or
where they were given under the form of example, then

these. persons, of course, could not agree with the mover and
seconder. There were others, also, who thought that all
days ought to be kept holy—that all were entitled to equal
respect. Any innovation upon their privileges in this respect
was what no man had a right to make, for they had qs good-
a right to enjoy their opinions as we had. lie would, further,
instance the ease of his own religion. The followers of it
thought they ought to abstain from eating meat on Fridays.
This was very well, but if he were to say that the mover and
seconder should do likewise, they would laugh at the notion.
Now he (Mr. Sheil) held that it was perfectly right to take
his children out for a walk after the performance of their
religious duties, and he was prepared to show that no one
had a right to prevent him. It was 26 years since the gar-
dens had been opened. It should be recollected that at that
period the proprietors purchased the right of walking in
them on Sundays. It was therefore a matter of property,
and how could they be justly deprived of the right and pri-
vilege which they had so bought, by the vote of a meeting
like this? The proposer of the motion had used an argu-
ment which he (Mr. Sheil) had often heard, but which was
not a very sound one, namely, that if the gardens were
opened on the Sunday, the servants employed at them were
prevented from attending divine worship. This was made
into a very important point, as if it could not be easily ob-
viated. There were many people, easily to be had, who
could relieve the servants whilst they were at their worship :
in short, be would ask, what was the practice of gentlemen
present with their domestic servants? Was not one at least
left at home, whilst the others were at church ? He could
not see, therefore, upon what principle the public were to be
deprived of the enjoyment of what they conceived to be an
innocent privilege.
Sir J. WALMSLEY conceived that the gentlemen who had
brought forward the motion had taken the only course which
they could consistently adopt. Something had been said
about the Old Testament, and the command of Almighty
God to keep the sabbath day ; but it should be remembered,
that in the New Testament something was said about it—
namely, that " the sabbath was made for man and not man
fur the sabbath." If the question were considered fairly, it
would be found not to apply to the wealthy, or to those who
had gardens of their own in which they could amuse them-
selves. It might be very well for those gentlemen to abstain
from going into their own gardens on the sabbath, and to de-
vote it to the observance of their religious duties; but it was
for them to consider whether they had a right to deprive the
poor of the privilege. They professed to admit the poor two
days a week, but that appeared to him to be nonsense. The
industrious classes could go there upon no day but Sunday;
and he apprehended that if the gentlemen who advocated
the motion would go into the loathsome cellars arid garrets
of the poverty-stricken poor, who had no place where to
amuse themselves, and no time for it but Sunday, and sec
them compelled to work hard six days in the week, from
morning till evening, for a bare subsistence, they would not
refuse to give them some opportunity for recreation even on
the Sabbath day. When he said recreation of course he
meant innocent recreation. After they had attended on their
duties, they should have an opportunity of going to some
place for recreation, where the eyes of those in a superior sta-
tion would meet them ; they would have on opportunity of
observing not only the works of nature but of nature's
God. If the subject were considered in its proper light, it
would be found greatly to the interest of the community
to remove the poor from their noxious abodes, and gi re them
an opportuuity of spending a few hours on the Sabbath day,
under the eyes of those parties who would take an interest in
seeing that they conducted themselves properly. He believed
it would have a great effect in preventing drunkenness, and
be an inducement to good order and morals : he was of
opinion it would be an exceeding great advantage to the lower
classes if, instead of the gardens being closed, they were
opened to them.
The CHAIRMAN explained that the question now under
discussion was, not the closing of the gardens to .the labouring
classes, but to the proprietors.

Sir
WALMSLEYwas quite aware of that. Mr. Parker
in proposing the motion read a letter, in which it was stated
that a Botanic Garden was crowded by the public on Sun-
days. That was the very strongest argument that could be
used in favour of opening the Liverpool Gardens. The
people could not be made religious by act of parliament. He
should vote againat closing the gardens on Sunday, not
against closing them to proprietors, but for the opening of
them to the poor.

Dr. REYNOLDS enquired whether the gardens were now
opened the whole of Sunday, or only part of the day ?
The CHAIRMAN replied that in the winter they were
opened from two o'clock in the afternoon, and in summer
from five till dusk.
The Rev. J. MARTINEAU and Mr. MOLYNEUX opposed
the motion. •
Mr. PARKER replied. He admired the discretion of Mr.
Sheil in declining an encounter with such an antagonist as
the reverend gentleman who had so ably seconded his motion.
It was for the meeting to decide whether the argument he had
directed against a mere vulnerable opponent was not
" Telum imbelle sine ictu."

The question before the meeting was not the admission of the
poor, but the exclusion of the proprietors. As to the vested
rights of the latter, surely the same authority which repealed
au original law was competent to re-enact it ; if the majority
was good for the one purpose, it was equally so for the other.
Mr. W, B. HODGSON next addressed the meeting in oppo-
sition to the motion. I object, he said, most strongly to this
attempt to hound the people into the church.; for 1 believe
if you were to darken the whole universe, and have the
churches only lighted, you would not get the people to go
there.
The meeting then divided, and the CHAIRMAN declared
the numbers to be—
For the motion
Against it..

Majority

Some surprise having been expressed at the Rev. Rector
Brooks having kept his seat, and the CHAIRMAN having
stated that he had in consequence counted the rev. gentle-
man among the minority,
Mr. BROOKS rose,'and said this was a question upon which
he might not feel himself quite satisfied with giving a silent
vote. He had no hesitation in stating that he could sec no
possible violation of the Sabbath in the proprietors going on
that day to the gardens : he did not' think there was any
harm likely to accrue from it either to religion or to morality.
He did not wish, however, to enter into the whole argument
now ; but he would say that he did not agree with a great
portion of the argument used against the closing of the gar-
dens on the Sabbath. A great portion of it, hs thought, was
fallacious. He could draw a wide distinction between open-
ing the gardens to the public, and allowing the proprietors
themselves to see them. If he thought it was in the slight-
est degree a violation of the Sabbath to allow those gentle-
men who were proprietors to go there, he should be the last
man in the world to consent to it. But he did not believe
it to be a violation of the Sabbath, and upon that ground he
thought they were justified in claiming the right.
Major AXFORD thought the proprietors had a right to go
to the gardens if they pleased, on the Sabbath ; and upon
that principle he had remained neutral.
Mr. Wir.LAN said that as at a former meeting the poor
had been excluded from the gardens on Sunday, he bad now
voted to exclude the rich on that day.
The discussion then terminated, and the meeting separated.

It is said that-during he'r Majesty's residence at Bucking-
ham Palace, one hundred and forty hogsheads'of strong beer
are monthly forwarded from Church's brewery at Burbage,
Wiltshire.

•• ---------
iweorriosr,
tahiriedeocoefascioolnlsaildlyervaebryle
. y SuN----For some time past, the spots on
SPOTS ON 111 .
narneunt
lame.
- AI • some clusters of some ones. About a week
size, besi es
a , one disappeared at the west limb, which had been the sun's dii,sreesehnatvethbeeree
ob-
served? during two revolutions of the sun on its axis ; but its
size had considerably diminished between its first and second
appearance. When first observed, it was of an oval form,
and its longest diameter about 27,000 miles ; but, on its se-
cond appearance, was reduced to 14,000, and had become
nearly circular. Two of those at present visible arc about
the size of the earth. They may be distinctly seen with an
ordinary telescope and dark glass.