The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-03-02 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.—MoNDAY.

Lord LYN OH t‘RsT directed attention to the evil consequences
resulting to three female children, subjected to solitary con-
finement in the Penetentiary at Milbank, as well as to other
parties; and with the view of leading to some amendment of so
pernicious a system, he moved for various returns.
Lord MtitionaNs admitted that such matters ought .not to
be allowed to paSs without notice, but complained that the mo-
tion had not been preceded by notice, and made an allusion,
for which Lord Lytadhurst called 4or and obtained a satisfactory
ex planation. •
The• returns were ordered, and their lordships adjourned. -

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY.
The speaker took the chair Shortly before four o'clock,
IPSWICH.

•
Mr. JENKINS presented the report of the Ipswich election
coMMittee, which set forth' that Mr. Gibson and Mr. F. Kelly
had been duly eleCted—that is, confirming the return o(Mr.
Gibson; and' placing' Mr. Kelly in the room-of Mr. 'l'ufflell.
Also that the petitions were neither frivolous nor vexatious.,
Toe following members took their oaths and their seats:—
Mr. Lynch of Gal Way, Sir J. Graham for Pembroke, Sir C.
Grey for Tynetnouth, and Mr. Fitzpatrick for the Queen's
County.'
On the motion of Mr. V. SMITH, a new writ was ordered for
Rutlandshire, in the room of Sir G. Noel, Bart., deceased.
PENITENTIARY (MILBANK.)
'Mr. EWART GLADITONE rose, and seeing the noble lord the
secretary of state for the home department in his place, ne
begged to put a question to him with regard to a certain state-
meat which had appeared in the newspapers, affecting the ma-
nagement of the Penitentiary at Milbank, and which was said
to have been made by a gentleman connected with the com-
mission of the peace iu the county of Middlesex. He wished
to know whether that statement had been brought under the
consideration of the noble lord, as it was one which, if allowed
to go on refuted, would prove very prejudicial to the govern-
and detrimental to the establishment. He wished fur-
ther to know whether the noble lord had instituted any inquiry
respecting the statements, and, if so, whether he would have
any objection to. lay the result on the table of the house before
they were.called upon to vote the estimates of that establish-
meut.

litird J. RUSSELL explained, saying he believed that the story
to which allusion bad been made, was without foundation ; at
the same time. if the hon. getitkonan nn A. ha
mAct, it st,.:tu 4,-,e;_;f6r k..;::'*.,!.vn past, hV•tte..sld see no
use in laying iVapers before the house upon a statement so ex-
traordinary and extravagant, and so totally false, as that to
which his attention had been called. lie begged further to say
that an opinion had been given that this convict had feigned
insanity in the hope of obtaining a pardon.
- 'CHURCH LEASES, &C. _ _ .

Lctrit Jowly RUSSELL said he could not give the notice in
strict conformity with the rule which had been laid down iu
references to notices of motions; -but he begged leave to ap-
prise the house, that the week after next he would move for the
appointment of a select committee to inquire into the mode of
granting renewable leases by bishops, deans, and chapters, and
other ecclesiastical bodies, with the probable amount of the
increased-value of property, which might be obtained with due
consideration to the interests of the established church.

BREACH. OF PRIVILEGE BY MR. O'CONNELL-DEFEAT OF

MINIsTERS

Lord M IDSTONE rose, be could assure the house, with the
greatest diffidence on the present occasion, being but a young
member, and'imaequainted with the rules and formalities of the
house. He begged, however, distinctly to state, that he brought
forward tile motion which he was about to submit, not as the re-
sult of the suggestions of others, but solely from the dictates and
feelings .31 his own heart. (Cheers.) He hoped, therefore, that
the animus, the intention by which he was actuated, would carry_
him through, notwithstanding his inexperience and his igno-
rance of the forme by which their psoceedings were regulated.
He could assure the house that, having served on an election
committee (the Salford,) and being utterly unconscious, as far
as he was himself concerned, of anything like the perjury or the
feelings attributed to members of committees in the speech of
tthhee
ehaornlieasni doplepaorrntued nitmyeumfbtehrroftwirinDgu,b,fflin. thaittwimasphuits wish to
ation,
and
dain
would
vhianycee dd
0t hnaet, hi
fe
hheadb
aonly
md os
en
le
what other hon. members he
Tewl uc
taken no notice of such an imputation. This was not a charge
against individual members, but an imputation which affected
the character of the House of Commons—(loud cheers from the
opposition benches)—and if they tamely suffered themselves to
bevilified and defimed, from whom were they to look for re-
spect or revetence? (Hear; hear.) Who would defend them
if they did not vindicate their own honour and character ?
(Cheers.) He trusted that the house would not be led to look
at this great question as a party quarrel, and that. they would
not by their decision that night sanction the use of language
whichainest have the effect of warping the determinations of the
election committees whiCh were now sitting. (Cheers.) It was
more in sorrow than in anger that he moved for a vote of cen-
sure against the hon. and learned gentleman. He would now
deliver the, speech of that hon. and learned member at the table
of the house, and Would move that the extracts of which he com-
plained be read by the clerk.
Mr. O'CoNNEet. subMitted that his entire speech should be
read.•(Loud laughter.) No one ever heard of a legal document
being read in part.
The clerk at the table then read the speech of Mr. O'Connell
at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, as reported in the Morning
Chronicle of Thursday, the 2'2d inst. We give the passage com-
plained of:—" Corruption of the worstdesclintion existed, and,
above all, there was the perjury of the tory politicians. ( Hear,
hear, from the opposition.) Ireland was not safe from the Eng-
lish and Scotch gentry. It was horrible to think that a body of
gentlemen-men who ranked high in society. who were them-
selves the administrators of the law, and who therefore ought to
be above all suspicion. and who ought to set an example to others
--was, it net horrible that theY should be perjuring themselves
in committees of the House of Commons? (Hear, hear.) The
time was come when this should be proclaimed boldly. He was
ready to be a martyr to justice and truth, but not to false swear-
ing; and therefore he repeated that there was foul perjury in
the tory coromitkees of the, House of Commons." (Hear, hear,
from the opposition benches.")
The clerk was then proceeding to read the speech as reported
in the Morning Post of the same date, when
IVir. O'CoeiNE et inqeired of Lord Maidstone,wbether, in order
to save the time of the house, he would be content with the read-
ing of the passage to which he objected ?
Lord MAIDSTONE having assented to this,
The clerk read the following extract from the Morning Post,
of the_ 22d inst.:—" He (Mr. O'Connell) did not mince the mat-
ter; his words might appear in the public press; he hoped they
would. Ireland was not safe from the perjury of English and
Scotch gentry, who took oaths according to justice, and voted
according to party." (Renewed cheers from the opposition
benches.)
The reading of these extracts was succeeded by loud cries of
" Move, move." lend Maidstone not having responded to this
call, there were loud cries from the ministerial and radical
benches for " Mr. O'Connell." That hon. member, however still
retained his seat, upon which some confusion arose, and cries
proceeded from all parts of the house of "move move;" "Chair,
chair;" " Lord Maidstone," and "Mr O'Connell." The ex-
citetnent did nut subside until after repeated cries of " Order"
from the chair.
The SPEAKER then said that, according to his apprehension
a similar course of proceeding should be adopted in the present
instance to that which had been pursued by the house in the
analogous case in which a charge was preferred against Sir
Francis Burdett. In that case the charge waif clear and dis-
tinct, having been in the form of a written charge, to which
the charge in the present instance might be considered as tan-
tamounteas the papers had been put in by the noble lord and
read from the table. The course which had been pursued in the
instance to which he referred, and of.which he iecominended the
adoption in the present case, was, that the hon. member who pre-
ferred the complaint having been heard first, the hon. member
complained of should be next heard, and subsequently the hon.
member who made the complaint.
Mr. O'CONNELL then rose and said—Sir, however inconve-
nient such a course may be, I bow at once to your decision. It
certainly is most peculiarly inconvenient, because my intention
was, if the noble lord had concluded by a motion, to move an
amendment for inquiry on this subject; it was my intention to
have moved an inquiry into the inerits-e(Cries of " Oh, oh."
from the Tories.) I have no'right to complain of the noble
lord; on the contrary, I think he delivered himself with as
much courtesy as was reasonably to be expected; and if he
failed in one phrase, I attribute that readily more to his inex-
perience at his time of life in public speaking, than to any at-
tempt to infringe any rule of this house or to any want of Cour-
tesy. (hear.). 1 don't know of what the noble lord complains.
(Laughter from the Opposition ) I like hilarity. (Laughter.)
I repeat, I don't know °fee hat he complains. He talks of my
attacking the whole house, and he reads a paragraph from a
speech of mine, in which I attack only one side. (Hear.) I
the more readily forgive his impatience upon the subject, be-
cause he has been on an Election Committee himself. ( Hear.),
A ud it is natural to feeta repugnance to an imputation of a cor-
rupt or partial tribunal. Nething is more hateful than a partial
public tribunal. (Cheers.): Yet lam convinced such a state
of things does-exist. (Hear.) lam thankful to the noble lord
,for having brought public attention tot he subject. I endea-
voured to call the attention of the house to it;
_but 1 failed, and
I' resolved to appeal to the public. I have heard a great deal,
in the house about piety; on observances—(hear, hear, hear)—
about the- desecretion of the Sabbath; but I know not of any
desecration go terrible as that of the holy name of God, which is
taken to attest the determinationeo do justice, with a predispo-
sitton to ecepartially. (Cheeis.) Does the noble lord think
there is neseuch thintrie This house? (Bear.) _ I did not hear
him deny eliat committees were partial— I suppose be meant to
deny it by isayplicat ion Heaven help the man who, out of this
hciuse, even among members of this house, should venture to
say, that EleCtion Committees of this house are impartial tri-
btinals—that they are assembled to do justice hetw6en the par-
ties—he would be laughed to ridicule. (Hear.) The public
';,pinion has been made up upon the point—the public do not
hesitate to say that these tribunals are corrupt. What do they
say Do they not, when they see the members come up to
your table. to be sworn, the moment they see the composition of
the committee, they can tell you the decision. Was the noble
lord house the other night when the Youghal Committee
was
ted for? (Cheers.) Did he hear the cheer, the loud
hinaltihoe
cheer—for even delicacy did not suppress it—did be hear the
cheer with which the last name was received by his friends
around him ? (Loud Ministerial cheers, with cries of "No no,
clapping of hands actually"
frouithe Tories, and " Yes, yes," from their opponents.) ik
"ice of " Yes, I heard it," from the Ministerial
took place. (" No, no," from the
sid
n the issue, let us try it any way you please—
eTories,
-,s) my hearing, and I am ready to
Iwpiutht
it 0
it did occur prove it. (Loud
noble lord perfectly a • e that no ballot
cheers.) Is not the
presentl aware,
place during-,t,he_
this
that there has not
has taken
I see that paper has been brought
been regular canvassine
Carlton Club-' Is not the noble lord aware, that
down from the
upon every canvassing, vutes are sent out from the Carlton
Club-house to every member on 'whom the party can depend.
Are not the z
opposite summoned, upon their
andallegi-
-eullenlet attend to every ballot? 1 would like
ance,,to come down
to see any gentlem.an opposite my up and deny y statement.
:There is none—nine of you dare deny it. (Hear, hear.) Well,
n every election ballot, and for
then, there is a canvass
what is it you come
down? Is it into
order discharge your
conscientious duties, or, is it in order to prevent us from
having our committees on this side the house? I dare any of
yonto say, that it is I y
in discharge o our consciences.—(llear,
hear, hear.), Then you come down here in order to prevent'
eemmittees on this side the house.
us from. fieei,ing. partia''
Then yen have brought the same charges 'against this side the
house .that 4-
-
etence brought
.there a Aan ainongst pewees o
t'does not know the iniquity of the
ri
when •a committee is struck ? Don't
system? What is Sak(l-
everyone say-Oh, now
otel..eet. right—(laughter)—there can
be, no doubt that. the' trey, will he unseated, or that, he will
•
the committee is; even t e.counset
retaitehis seat, arnorcling a.s
—do oast they say, Oh, Its-k!
II right, ee may take this easy;
"
with the vote of the chairman.
we have d.,majority of 65, "1"", .
of 75 , • we can now take it easy; we
giVe us a,(qear majority
are all Has the noble
lord read the address of Sir Samuel
which he stated that he bad' re-
signed because he despaired of success, seeing that there was a
f t ties upon the-committee. (Hear, hear )
lwrge--majortiv..o 0 •i
so-, andit s put in them, by wav of
The public nevispaperp said ,