The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-07-31 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-Fup?Ay

Mr. HUME moved "that the exclusive privileges now en-
joyed by the Bank of Ireland are injurious to the best inter.
ests of that country ; and it is, therefore, most expedient and
just to place, as soon as possible, the banks of Ireland on a
footing of equality."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER entered into expla-
nations regarding the joint-stock banks, the committee
thereon, &c., and declared that he should next session bring
forward the question involved in the motion, and on that
ground he trusted that it would not be pressed.
Mr. WARBURTON and other members having urged, under
the circumstances, the propriety of withdrawing the motion,
Mr. H usia yielded, and withdrew it.
After the conference with the lords on the subject of the
alterations of the Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill, the lords amend-
ments were acquiesced in.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in answer to Mr.
Warburton's inquiry, said that the commissioners on Danish
claims had made a report regarding goods on shore seized,
but not a final report.
Sir STRATFORD CANNING and Sir ROBERT PEEL put
questions to Lord Palmerston regarding. the circumstances
that had led to the sending of an expedition from Bombay
to Persia, "to protect British interests," but they could
obtain no distinct answers from Lord Palmerston. On the
subject of Vera Cruz, regarding which Mr. Mackinnon in-
stituted inquiry, his lordship said that he had given notice
of the blockade as early as he was enabled to do so.
Mr. G. PALMER moved for a copy of a letter, dated the
Bth of January, 1838, addressed by the poor law commission-
ers to the assistant commissioners, with which certain pro-
posed orders for the appointment of assistant overseers were
sent.
Lord J. RUSSELL repeated his objections to producing the
document, after whiCh
The motion was negatived without a division.

Why, was this country in want of a precedent for such acts?
For more than a century there hid been such precedents.
And, even were such a precedent dangerous, was the case of
Poland analagous to any other? Was not the claim of the
Poles on the tree people of Great Britain much stronger than
that of any other nation under similar circumstances ? The

poet had ;ai-cl
Sarmatia fell unwept, without a crime."
This, however poetically fine, was not less literally true—the
Polish patriots had bled and suffered exile really for no crime.
Upon England, however, their claims were still stronger.
England, by the treaty of Vienna, guaranteed the freedom
of the Poles; but that treaty had been egregiously violated,
and the British government had not stepped forward to de-
mand redress. The Poles were here only because they resist-
ed that violation of a solemn treaty. Vie only objection that
had the appearance even of soundness was, that this grant
would operate as an inducement to others to come over. The-
amount of relief afforded was, however, so small, that none
but those who were within one degree of starvation would be
tempted by it. He hoped, under these circumstances, the
right hon. gentleman would accede to the recommendation of
the noble lord.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER felt himself com-
pelled; notwithstanding his great desire to see the sufferings
of the Poles alleviated, to decline acceding to the recommen-
dation of the noble lord.

THE CHURCH IN CANADA.
On a vote being proposed for the sum of £11,799 for the
ecclesiastical establishment of the North American colonies,

Mr. PARKSNGTON thought it his duty to call the attention
of the house to the insufficiency of this grant for the pur-
poses for which it was intended, more especially the sum of
£l,OOO for the Bishop of Morttreal ; and also to the destitu-
tion of religious instruction which existed in the two provinces
of Canada. He was sure that when the committee consi-
dered this, and the increasing population of those colonies,
they would think the grant was not sufficient for the object,
particularly as there was a Roman Catholic bishop at
Quebec, who was allowed a salary of £l,OOO a-year by, the
local legislature of Lower Canada, and who also received
another £l,OOO per annum from the Roman Catholics of the
province. They had no right to encourage emigration, and
afterwards to withold those blessings and privileges which
were their birthright in this country. It was not his inten-
tion to move an amendment, because the forms of the house
stood in his way; but he was anxious to call the attention of
parliament to this subject.
Lord Howice did not think it just, considering the flou-
rishing state and increasing prosperity of the Canadas, that
the people of England should be called upon to pay for the
permanent maintenance of a religious establishment in those
coloniee, though he would hail with gladness any measure
taken to provide such an establishment by the Canadians
themselves. Previous to 1832 a very objectionable practice
had existed of paying the clergy of Canada out of the army
extraordinaries; but in that year, while Lord Goderich was
at the head of the colonial departmeist, this practice had been
terminated, and a more regular method of payment com-
menced, which had received the sanction of that house.
Sir A. DALRYMPLE maintained that it was necessary to
make a more liberal provision for the clergy of Canada.
Mr. WA LL ACE observed that Canada had been styled a
religious wilderness, but he did not know a more barren wil-
derness than the Chinch of England itself. (Oh, oh.!) It
had been the curse of Ireland, and would be the curse of Ca-
nada. (Loud cries of "Oh !")
Mr. GLA DSTONE thought that there never had been a more
senseless exhibition made than that which they had just wit-
nessed on the part of the hon. member for Greenock.
Mr. Il UME said there was no destitution in Canada with
respect to the service of the Established Church. • What was
sought for was to make Canada like Ireland.
Mr. GOULBURN doubted the correctness of the opinions of
the hon. member for Kilkenny, with respect to the affairs of
Canada. He supported the propriety of an additional grant
to Canada, for the furtherance of religion there.
Mr. BA INES objected to the Dissenters in England being
compelled to contribute to the support of the Established
Church in Canada.
After a few words from Mr. Eeetce,
Mr. HOBHOUSE said he believed it would have a very per-
nicious effect if they attempted to force their peculiar re-
ligious opinions upon the people of Canada, contrary to the
feelings of the great majority of its inhabitants. He was
sure that though gentlemen opposite might be anxious to ex-
tend religious doctrines, y yet the were not less anxious to
have additional support for their p- oliticalopinions. (Cheers.)
Sir R. INGLIS said, he had presented petitions from vari-
ous parts of the country in favour of the maintenance of the
ecclesiastical establishinent in Canada upon a scale commen-
surate with the wants of the people there and the wishes of
the people in England, and he begged to state that he
fully concurred in their prayer. He admitted that a period
must come when colonies, like the parent state, must main-
tain their ecclesiastical as well as civil establishments; but
that period had not 'yet arrived with respect to Canada.
Mr. O'CONNELL objected to that part of the vote which
assigned 1,0001 to the Roman Catholic bishop of Quebec, and
751. to the Roman Catholic bishop of Newfoundland. He ob-
jected to the connexion between the Roman Catholic Church
and the State. If theywere good men, this stipend from the
state was the surest mode of corrupting them. All sects
should be on an equal footing, and each left to support their
own clergy. Leave to the Canadian Protestants the payment
of their own parsons, and they would be much more zealous.
An act of parliament had. noihing whatever to do with reli-
gion. Religion was degraded by acts of parliament. There
was no infallibility in them, and even in civil matters he had
sometimes no great respect for them. (Cheers and counter-
cheers. He had the high authority to appeal to in this in-
stance of the mild, pious, and not at all calumniating Bishop
of Exeter, as given within the last 24 hours in another place.
(Hear, and a laugh.) He protested against the state inter-
fering at all in inattkrs of religion. If the committee divided
on this vote, he should oppose the grant to the Roman Catho-
lic bishops of Quebec and Newfoundland.
Lord SANDON protested against the invectives constantly
uttered in that house by the hon. and learned member against
the principle of an Established Church. Where was the in-
stance of a Roman Catholic body who could obtain an en-
dowment having refused it? (Hear, hear.) Was it not no-
torious, too, that the hon. and learned gentleman within the
last four or five years had advocated the granting of glebes
to the Roman Catholic clergy, and the payment of.that
clergy by the state? (Hear, hear.) Whenever the Roman
Catholics or the advocates of the voluntary principle could
obtain an endowment, in any colony for instance, they
showed themselves abundantly anxious to obtain it. (Hear.)
The hon. and learned member seemed'to despise acts of par-
liament himself, and had taught others to do so also,—(more
cheering.) So long, however, as an act of parliament exist-
ed it ought to be obeyed. But the Church of England did
not exist upon the authority of an act of parliament alone,
but upon the solemn and decided declaration of the whole
nation.—(Cheers.)
Mr. O'CoatNELL said, the noble lord had made a personal
attack upon him, which he must answer. The noble lord had
on one point misunderstood him. He had never intended to
Say that if a Roman Catholic clergyman got money as well
as power that he would not abuse, both. He did not mean to
say that a Roman catholic clergyman would nut be a hypo-
crite. He did not mean to say that a.Roman catholic clergy-
man would not place a painted repesentation of the Bible, in
a gorgeous binding, on the box of his carriage, but which was
also a mere box itself, independently of its exterior, and then
drive through a town, canvassing the voters for a forthcoming
election. He did not say this had been done by a Protestant
clergyman, but, that it might have been done by one of
the Roman Catholic persuasion. (Hear.) The noble lord
had said that he (Mr. O'Connell) had sought to establish the
Roman Catholic church in connexion with the state.
Lord SANDON—Yes, I beard you say so.
Mr. O'CoNNEt.t.—The noble ldrd beard me say so!
Lord SANDON—Yes, when alluding to the endowment of
the Roman Catholic clergy.
Mr. O'CONNELL—The noble lord alluded, no doubt, to a
letter of his, written, but without a date; to the clergyman of
his (Mr. O'C.'s) parish, in order to attempt a pacification.
He had said it was true the Roman Catholic clergy should
have glebe houses, but that these glebe houses should be pur-
chased by the catholics for the use of the catholic clergy, and
in no way whatever in connexion with the state.—( Hear!)
He would refer the noble lord to the evidence which he (Mr.
O'Connell) had given upon this point before the committee
of the House of Lords, in order to show that such was not
his desire or wish, but that of the Roman catholic bishops of
Ireland. He had never desired, indeed he had always re-
pudiated, the idea of a state provision being made for the
Roman catholic clergy. In that opinion he had lived, and
in that opinion he should. die. The noble lord had talked as
if the case was parallel to that of clergymen who were, he
said, paid. Yes, they were paid ; but by whom ? Was it
by these whom thex,served, or by those they did not serve?
For his part, he would not pay for the clergymen who served
the noble lord. Indeed it appeared to him the noble lord's
clergyman had done him much good—(a laugh). In civil
matters acts of parliament ought to be valid, but not in
matters of religion If they had been, what would have be-
come of Christianity ? He hulled defiance at any law which
attempted to shackle conscience. He would be happy to find
they were in a situation in which genuine Christianity could
exert its benign influence.
Lord SAN DON having explained,
The CHAIRMAN drew the attention of the committee to the
subject of the vote under discussion.
Sir CHARLES GREY defended the vote. He would not
now attempt to prejudge the general question of the Canadian
church, but this he would say, that it was natural to expect
that when they were increasing the grants to the established
church they must be prepared to increase the grants made to
other classes of professors, more especially to those of the
church of Scotland.
The vote was then agreed to.—Adjourned.