The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-12-09 00:00:00

TOWNMOUNCIL PROCEEDINGS.

"the uzu;.linotithiv ateqting of the Cr.ltil.n
nesday.

was held ou Wed-

EXTRAORDINARY PROCEEDINGS.

Immediately On the entrance of the reporters,
Mr. Alderman EVANS rose kind said, before you proceed to
the business of the day, I hope I may be allowed to notice a
most libellous attack which has been made on one of the Coun-
cil, and put forward in the papers as a speech of one our own
body, at Kirkdale. We have lately heard complaints of the
inaccuracy of reports of speeches made in this room, and if in-
ac6uracy exists where the gentlemen of the press have every
advantage, we may well suppose that speeches delivered where,
they have not those advantages, have not been accurately re-
ported. I therefore trust, that we shall find the speech which
is contained in this newspaper, (holding in his hand the Liver-
pool Standard of Friday last,) and put forward as that of Mr.
James Heyworth, may be not only a mis-report but a perver-
sion. (Hear.) I cannot allow myself to think,—I cart scar-
cely believe, that any gentleman a: member of this body, would,
whatever might he the excitement of the protracted festMties,
(hear, hear,)—that he-would so far forget himself as to employ.
the terms I shall now read to the Council. We have here "a
servile majority," "deep dishonour," "political cabal," and
" paltry cowardice." (Hear, hear.) I believe such an accumu-
lation of epithets was'never applied to any public body by the
most violent partisan. This speech also concludes with what I
must term a bravado, "that he would, when opportunity offered
say the same when in the presence of the Council." The op-
portunity now offers for Mr. Heyworth to do so; and I trust
he will avail himself of it to state, if be wishes, any thing of
what he is represented to have said.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH, immediately rose, and
advancing to the Council table, said, Mr. Mayor, will you fa—
Your me with that paper ? (The paper was then handed to him.)
I have to object altogether to the statement made by Mr. Evans,
as being perfectly irrelevant to the duties of this Common
Council,—l know ILA by what law such a course of proceeding
has been adopted. Ain Ito consider that this is a court of judi-
cature, to inquire into the conduct of any of its members ? Am
I to suppose that it has mixed with its political character some-
thing of a judicial one,—that this enquiry and investigation
into the motives and into-the conduct of any of its members is
one of its duties ? If so,—if my language is to be criticised in
the manner in which it has been, I have a right to demand by
what law it is so criticised in this Council. I surely might, if I
chose to adopt retaliative measures, bring to recollection some
expressions that had been used in this Council, such as I do not
approve of, and far exceeding any thing. which I have stated.
Have I a right, or have I not, to state those expressions, follow-
ing the example which has been set here in this Council? I
would gladly abstain from such a course of proceeding, because
I should have to comment on the language of gentlemen pre-
sent, and on the language of your Chairman, in a manner which
would be unpleasant to me. But if lam pushed to it, I must
claim the right to express my opinion of those statements. But.
I will waive such a proceeding, I do not wish to do it until I am
called upon.
Mr. Councillor RAWDON, in an andible whisper to Alder-
man Robinson, " What the devil has this to do with it ?"

Mr. Councillor Jasiss HEY WORTH.-1 beg I may not be in-
terrupted. Mr. Evans was not interrupted.
Mr. Councillor its WDON.—" What said was in a whisper."
Mir. Alderman EvaNs.—l wish to know, in the first instance,
whether you have a right tosenter into this matter at all?
The Matron—(amidst much confusion)—l took the liberty
of saying something on a former occasion, when the reporters
had misrepresented me. I think, if those expressions have
been uttered out of doors, any member may take exception to
them.
Mr. Councillor JAMES Her wowrir.—Your case and mine
are very different. You had a right to say what you did, be-
cause you were misrepresented. Ido not say that I hare been
misrepresented.
The Mayon.—You are allowed to make what observations
you like, and to state any thing respecting my conduct you
choose, as you have just now stated that you had something to
say about it. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES 'IEYWORTH.—Have you any law or
right to investigate into this matter in this council ? •
The MAYOR.-1 have given my answer. (Great confusion.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.4—WiII you show me your
right ? (Cries of " Oh, oh !" and increased confusion.)
The MAYOR.—I will take the sense of the council upon it.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")
Mr.. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—That will not do. (In-
creased confusion.)
The MAYOR.-1 hope common sense will do. I have given
my opinion. I cannot say more. (Loud crieg of " Hear.")
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—I require to be shown
that law for this plain reason :7-you must have a law that is
violated before you can accuse a man. What law have I vio-
lated? (Much confusion.)
Mr. Councillor CoGLAN.—There is another law—the law of
honour—a principle which ought to influence every member.
Mr. Heyworth has made a serious attack on the members of
this council; and I should consider it as a point of duty and
honour for him to say that the sentiments he is reported to have
uttered on that occasion were the sentiments he really felt, or
that the report' was 'a misreport. We should then know what to
do. There is a law of honour which I trust that gentleman will
avail himself of on the present occasion. I merely suggest that
as. the line of policy which he ought to adopt.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—Mr. Coglan has taken
the liberty of interrupting me. He has appealed to a law of
honour. My dear sir—(A complete storm of cries of "Chair,
chair," " Mayor, mayor,")—l beg your pardon, Mr. Mayor.
Dosou think I am less careful of the rule of honour than any
member in this room ? (Inconceivable confusion, which almost
rendered the voice of the speaker inaudible.)
The MAYOR —I have delivered my opinion that you have a
perfect right to enter into any explanation. 'The subject has a
right to be brought before the council. " (Loud cries of " Hear,
hear, hear.") If these expressions were used, they are dis-
respectful to the council, and any gentleman has a right to
bring them forward. (Reiterated cries of " Hear.") There-
fore it remains for you either to deny them, or to acknowledge
them, as you think fit.
Mr. Councillor RATHBONE.-1 presume we have no law to
that effect.

The Msvoil.—l have given my opinion, as chairman, what
Mr. Heyworth has to do. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES llarwoaTti.—Then I beg to state,
that in what is reported in this paper. substantively and sub-
stantially there is nothing but what I have previously stated in
thisasseinbly. The phraseology used for clothing the senti-
ments may be different, and I think is different. But with re-
tard to the opinions promulgated in that speech, they vary very
little, if at all, from what I have stated to you before. I have
stated to you that I conceived that a great dishonour had been
.done to the council—notice the word—councillors are used in the
report---1 did say that in the meetings, held at the Angel Inn,
of the members of this council, to predetermine on subjects to
be discussed in the council, the deliberative character of this
body had been affected; that it was quite impossible that indi-
vidual members of this council could come prepared to give
their opinions, with the same freedom and independent exer-
cise of judgement, as they would have done if they had come
without that antecedent meeting. I maintain the same opinion
still. Mr. Alderman Evans has given you certain strong words
that were—used in this speech; but you know very well how
exparte statements may alter the character of an expression.
It is for this very.reason that I have advocated the use of the
whole Bible in the schools. (A complete storm of ejaculations
followed this declaration, with cries of "-Question.") I have a
perfect right to use this line of argument. (The uproar and
confusion here became so great as completely to drown the
voice of the speaker.)
The MAYOR interposed. He said, I think it is better that
Mr. Heyworth should go on his own way.
- "

Mr. Councillor Jsmas HEYWORTII, when order had been
restored.—l would only appeal to the appointment of your
servants in proof of what I said regarding the`political nature
of this council, and I would ask who have been elected to these
offices? (The Mayor, with great precipitation, "We are now
on the subject of your speech.") Is it not an absolotet proof
from the opinions of those appointed that the appointments are
of a political character? (Great uproar and confusion, amidst
which the voice of the Mayor was heard, "saying " Those words
that are objectionable?" Mr. Hevworth continued.) I don't
know that they were the exact words I said. I was only going
to show you what was intended to be conveyed by
.what .I
utter-
ed. lam charged with libelling this pnblic body in a manner
that was without precedent in such cases. Did not O'Connell
call the entire members of the House of Commons a parcel of
rascals. (Great uproar.) I state this to show that there have
been such precedents. Has he not branded all your wives and
daughters as prostitutes ? (Loud cries of " No, no !" and tre-
mendous confusion.) And this man you have taken into your
arms and given a dinner to. (Renewed confusion.) In the
observations which I made I did not mean to reflect on any in-
dividual councillor. I said then what I say now, that the town
had been dishonoured and insulted by the party meeting of
councillors at the Angel Inn. If I had come forwards with
some expressions which were not strictly such as you could ap-
prove of—which were not quite so gentle and so palatable as
you could wish, surely, under the circumstances in which they •
were uttered, some little allowance might have been made for
the excitement of the moment. 'But I say, with the exception
perhaps of the language and phraseology in this paper, I have
nothing to retract—the sentiments here expressed were pre-
cisely what I uttered. kMuch confusion.)
The MA7011.--.1 suppose it is the clothing that is objected to ?

Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE
Ywoitrit said, I am perfectly
ready to believe my brother was not aware of the words that
were used on the occasion. He never premeditates a speech.
If the expressions were too strong, he has now said quite enough
to retract them. I cannot but consider this attack as an indi-
vidual persecution. (Continued confusion.)
Mr. Councillor J. Mr woaTn.—Although this is a friendly
interference on the part of a very worthy brother of mine, I
disclaim being taken under his protection. So long as I re-
main in this council I must stand ou my ,own right of pro-
tecting those opinions and principles of which my conscience
i, thehey appointment
not tm
approves.o I hope I shall never be guilty of any expression of
Councillornh. t o aunGyaiaurdei individual present.
wieh
wished
Clir,ieks
noefw"
wHheaatr.''
he
thought of)
eonf ithoef ~1 J 1 r Messrs.ty of Ot
hkei ll , E
council?t li s , and Shuttle-
worth? '
-Mr. Councillor LAWRENCR H y vvott.r tr.—My brother is not
called on to answer your questions. (Uproarious confusion.)
Mr. Councillor COG
LAN rose amidst deafening cries of
" spoke," " spoke." He said, I was in hopes when the gentle-
man was called on to state—(spoke, spokes—when he was
called on to give an explanation of the sentiments he was re-
ported to have uttered, that he would
very different manner and in a very' different spirit to what be
has done. He has stated, and if he
feels he is correct—if he
feels he is right, it does him great credit for
the manly avowal
he has made. He has staled that, substantively, what he felt on
that occasion he feels now, and he tow intends it. Now, if these
expressions are not contradicted—if the present council suc-
cumbs to the charge brought against them by Mr.,Heyworth,
they will appear, and justly so, guilty of a gross dereliction of
duty; and, if not explained, it will place them in a bad
opinion in society. We are accused of meeting together at the
Angel Inn, to' predecide questions, without regatd to what
might take place afterwards; when, to use the expression of
Mr. Heyworth, if he had a giant's strength in argument, it
would be of no avail to alter that predetermination. I confess 1
have not had the opportunity of witnessing the giant strength of
Mr. Heyworth. (Great confusion.) That. gentleman said I
came bound hand and foot to the arrangements decided on at
the hotel. We were not absolutely bound hand and foot; but
we came with the determination to support measures that were
brought forwards in that meeting. As to the number of the
persons present, they were stated at forty. I cannot ascertain
whether that statement is correct or not. In my opinion, the
number did not amount to half that. But perhaps the little
bird that communicated the intelligence of That meeting may
have taken a more correct report. 1, for one, repudiate the
sentiment that any pre-arrangement was ever entered into at
the Angel, or at any other place; it never prevented me from
the free expression of my sentiments whenever I entered the
council. I feel that I am the representative of an important
section of this town. My constituents repose confidence in me,',
and I should suffer in their, estimation if I came to this room
fettered on any subject that was to be discussed. On the dock
trust question. the object at 'the nieeting was.to consider--and
perhaps this explanation is due to the public—who would be
likely best to discharge the duties or that important office—who
eould devote the time, and had the talents for it, and to ascer-
tain if the- gentlemen called' upon would stand; that was

(tolt! vbject ,%c

meeting. But if any gentleman had been
t Uses seusequently better qualified than the person nalne,t
at the meeting, I should have felt myself perfectly independent
to have voted for ;inn. I did not hear a no,oiser proposed of
the eloquence of the ineini;er for Evertou ( Mr. Jas. Heyworth,)
but perhaps it was thOught that some plain, home-spoken man
of business, who had some time to spare for the improvements
which were going on in the town, would be preferable. They
wanted no poetic effusions—no Parnassian flights; they wanted
men of business, and therefore overlooked that talented gentle-
(Loud cries of " Hear.") A charge has been made
that deep dishonour bas been inflicted on every councillor in
the town—

Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTII.—I deny it, sir; I have
ex pained that point ; the word I made use of was council.
Mr. Councillor COGI, A N.—l am very glad to find that I was
wrong. He says it is no use urging any subject here with a
servile majority against them. Who sends the members here
but the people ? But perhaps the gentleman thinks that only
17 of his party are here who represent the distinguished classes
of society. lie says, that to adopt the line policy we have
adopted is an act of paltry cowardice. Where was the cowardice
in our meeting together? We met, as I stated, for a particular
purpose; hut, even taking it at his own showing, where is the
cowardice? May it not be taken as an act of prudence in these
40 men meeting together? Might they not have felt the power
—the dignity—the force—the genius or the 10 who were elected
to protect the altar and the throne ? (Great applause.)
Mr. Councillor LAWUENCE HEY‘voimi here rose and said—
' must call to order. l cannot see how we have the right to
discuss questions here which have been urged out of doors.
(Great confusion.)
The MAYou.—I think we may go on.
Mr. Councillor COG AN.—lt should go forth to the public that
these statements are not correct in that attack on the council.
There was an attempt made here to bring forward a charge that
an attack was made upon the Bible. We have had enlightened
men, who stand as high as Mr. Heyworth, with contrary opi-
n►ons. We have bad the statements of Mr. Blackburn and of
Mr, Rathbone that the Bible is not sacrificed.

Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH here rose to speak, when
he was interrupted by
The MAYOR, who said—l think Mr. Co lan is now answering
some observations that you have made. You introduced the
question of the Bible. (Great confusion and uproar.) I think
he has a perfect right to reply to those observations.
Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE HEYWORTH,—Then I will here-
after reply to every speech that is uttered out of doors. (Up-
roarious confusion.)
The MAYOR —Will you allow the discussion to proceed?
(with great vehemence.) Your brother iutroduced the subject
which Mr. Coglan was replying to. lam only very sorry that
it was ever introduced by your brother.
Mr. COGLAN.—I shati.proceed (amidst great confusion.)
The MAYOR.—Certainlv.
Mr. COGLAN.—If Mr. Hey worth's brother had said that he was
sorry for what he had said, the matter would have ended. But he
has said that it is substantively the same as he spoke. I feel it my
duty to state distinctly that the charge here made, that the Bible
is sacrificed, is not true. I will not use a stronger phrase. But
it is essentially necessary that it should go abroad that the plan
of education adopted is the same as in any school in this coun-
try; that the Bible is communicated whole and entire to the
protestant children. Therefore those who say that the Bible is
sacrificed have stated what is not true; and I hope that Mr.
Heyworth will feel himself bound to come forwards and say, if
he has visited those schools, that the Bible is there taught whole,
entire, and usetutilated, and that no sacrifice has been made for
party purposes. I shall not trespass longer on your time; but
I think it is of the first importance to the dignity of the Com-
mon Council that no individual should take an advantage of an
opportunity out of doors to state such a calumny—such a gross
calumny against them, which, if true, would sink them in the
public estimation. The whole statement is untrue and un-
justifiable.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH again rose, but was as-
sailed with a complete storm of cries of " Spoke, spoke." When
they had a little abated, he said—No, no, that will not do. I
submit to you I have the right now to stand here in my defence.
The Mavoe.—l am very sorry really that this discussion has
taken place.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—So was I. (A great
uproar.)
The MAYOR.—I hope for your protection (to the council).
It has generally been considered that a gentleman could only
speak once, except in explanation.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—Mr. Mayor, you will
consider this a widely different case from the ordinary rule you
have laid down. Here am I attacked first by one councillor,
and then by another, and charged in a manner which I think
shows neither much temp r, much good feeling, nor much good
sense in those who have brought it ; and, surely, I may be al-
lowed to stand up in defence of my own opinions. The coun-
cillor for St. Anne's ward, (Mr. Coglan) has stated that gentle-
men did not come bound by any particular line of conduct pre-
viously entered into at the Angel Inn, to vote in any certain
direction. I can only infer that they came so predetermined on
the authority of an individual present at the meeting; and I beg it
to be understood that it was ❑either of my brothers who made the
communication to me. I was informed that every member of
the Dock committee, appointed by this council, was appointed
pre-determinately at the Angel Inn; and I think I have a
strong corroboration of that circumstance from seeing a card in
the hands of a member, on which were the names of every
one of the members chosen. There was some resolution that
was previously determined upon it was evident, because, al-
though all those members on the card were liberal members,
when other liberal members were proposed in the council as
amendments on those pre-determined names, they rose in quick
succession and declined the honour; evidently showing that
there was a predetermination entered into at the Angel Inn.
This is a fair exposition of my meaning, when I said, " men
came bound hand and foot;" and as to the numbers spoken of
so assembled at the Angel Inn, if that meeting was an unjusti-
fiable one, I do not see that it is a matter of much consequence
whether the number be frittered down to 20; but I had it on
authority that the number was about 40; and the names of
those fixed upon for the guidance of the dock estate were
chosen at that meeting. I ask you—l ask the whole town—
whether it is necessary that there should have been this previous
meeting. I grant that some discussion may be had at these
meetings, but it is not fair that -those of my political opinions
should not attend them. They had as much right to be there
as any members of the council. There is one thing which is
not announced at all—the manner in which that meeting was
convened. Ain I right, or am I wrong in stating that that
meeting was convened by the Secretary of the Reform Associ-
tion ? (Loud cries of " No, no.") Then if lam wrong, lam
wrong informed by a gentlemaa who was present at the meet-
ing. (Loud cries of " Name, name.") No; I will not name :
I should betray a confidence which I am nut called on to do. If
I have brought myselfinto an unpleasant situation I will not bring
him into one. I should not have alluded to it if I had not been
charged with something very gross and offensive. Are your
circulars convening those meetings endorsed on the back
" private," I ask ? If they are, does that correspond with the
publicity we wish to give to our proceedings by having re-
porters at this table? (Great confusion and uproar.)
The MAYOR.—I wish to make one observation ;it is, I wish
to drew these observations to a close. I look on it, that in this
circumstance of the Angel Inn, and this sort of work, we are
going from the charge of those words that were so offensive to
the council. ( Hear, hear.)
Mr. COHOCiIIOY JAMES HEYWORTH.—" Political" was one
of those words—
. .

The Mayon, (interrupting) and it is on that point that the
council have demanded an explanation.
Mr. Councillor JAsiEs II EY WORTR.—It was in the course of
explanation when 1 was interrupted. Mr. Coglan has stated,
that that class of society with which he was connected are looked
upon by me by an aristocracy of feeling. I feel that the whole
family of man are one flesh and blood ; and I say, I have as
tender a sympathy for the meanest individual of the town, as
any man can have that brawls for " liberty." I will not have my
conduct contrasted as though I felt no sympathy for the poor.
I feel for the poor as being the stable foundation of the great
prosperity of this country, but at the same time that I do sac
this, I say that there are, by God's ordination, different rank's
of men to maintain the whole fabric of society, which no law
can destroy. (Here the uproar was renewed, amidst loud cries
of •‘ question. ')
The MAYOR.—Come to the point (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—I will come to the point.
I have told you before, I was sorry this question should have
been mooted. I would not express-1 never intended to express
any unkind feeling to the members of this council. To sub-
stantiate what I said further; I feel that the whole onus lies on
my own shoulders. The word " cabal," if I used it, could only
have the meaning of a large number of
.gentlemen performing out
of doors duties which ought to be performed within these walls.
It is a cabal in another sense. Notes were distributed from the
table by Mr. Rathbone, by one of-your own servants. I ask
if these letters were distributed, and by whose orders ? I con-
tend that no public servant (I allude to Mr. Crooke) ought to
deliver partially, any letters to this council without delivering
to all. (Great confusion.)
The M A Yon (vehemently).—This is not the matter in ques-
tion. The words, the words; to the point. It is to the point of
those offensive words.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTIL—I have explained them.
The MAYOR.—If you have explained them satisfactorily we
will go on. (Great confusion.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—I shall leave the sub-
ject, as I see such a torrent against me. I could have said
much more, and something relatinc, to the chair itself. (Mr.
Heyworth then sat down, amidst iiidiscribable confusion.)
'1 he Mayon.—l shall be most happy to hear it. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTII.—No; I forbear. (Loud
indistinguishable cries.)
The MaYon.—l should wish to know if the council have
thought my proceedings on this occasion proper. (Hear, hear.)
I have endeavoured strictly to call Mr. Heyworth's attention
to the offensive words used, not as to any political meetings,
for I believe, that the gentlemen opposed to us in politics, had
a meeting also. At the last meeting a gentleman whom I don't
see here, drew out a resolution from his pocket, which I cer-
tainly did not see him write here. (Loud cries of " hear." )
Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE 11EYWORTH rose and was assailed
with a complete storm of cries of "spoke, "spoke."
The MA YOR.—I hope in the particular situation in which Mr.
Heyworth stands that he will he allowed to speak.
Mr. LAWRENCE HEYWORTH,—order having been somewhat
restored, then said, I must say 1 utterly condemn the conduct
of the member for St. Ann's Ward, (Mr. Coglan). Mr. Evans
brought forward some offensive words. My brother explained
those words. Mr. Coglan not satisfied with that must proceed
to the matter and not the words. This must lead on to an in-
terminable discussion if proceeded with. lam persuaded if we
take notice of every thing that transpires relating to this Coun-
cil we shall never have done. If he stated what was not cor-
rect, it was very proper to ask for an explanation and to retract
what was wrong. but Mr. Coglan should go to the place where
they were uttered and there discuss the question. To bring the
question here will leadon to interminable discussions in matters
with which we have nothing to do. There is one more observa-
tion I wish to- wake; it is this, my brother says he has private
information of the meetings at the Angel. I don't know whe-
ther my brother has acquitted me of giving it. (" Yes," " yes.")
I say that I have never communicated any thing to him, what-
ever I may do.

Mr. Councillor RATHBONE.—I wish to say one word.
The M A YOR;-1 hope only one word.
Mr. Councillor RA THBONE.-1 think the good feeling of the
Council is shown in bringing forward the report before the
Council to allow of the retraction of such exceedingly offensive
expressions. And I suppose if a gentleman would say that
under the excitement of festivities, he would be glad of explain-
ing it away. Now I think it is very desirable, therefore, that that
opportunity should be afforded to that gentleman to state that he
did not intentionally mean what appeared in the press. I hope
that explanation will not be abandoned when the proceedings
assume so black a character as that did. Mr. Heyworth did
make a statement relative to our meeting at the Angel Inn, that
we came from there " bound hand and foot." I distinctly deny
that being the case. We did go there and did think on a list,
and did agree, certainly, are ong ourselves, and that if we saw
nothing better transpire for the community we did agree to sup-
port that list, which any man would do. Then as to our being
summoned by the Secretary of the Reform Ass.,ciatiou, I do
distinctly deny that we were summoned by any officer of the
Association, or that we are bound in the slightest degree to that
Association. Allow me about the letters. I did address a let-
ter to the Reform Members of the Council. I did ask an officer
ui this Council to deliver it to the members of the Council as
they came in. I asked it as a matter of courtesy and shall do
so agata. If any one will say it is wrong to employ au officer

of the Council—to give them letters to deliver, which do not give
them any extra trouble, I shall not do so again. I shall not be
lectured by any member of this Council, and if repeated I shall
care very little about it. As to the Bible, (loud cries of "No,"
"no,") I merely state that the Bible is not excluded from the
schools either north or south, but is better done than ever since
the scho ils came into my management. (Great uproar and
confusion.) I beg the protection of the Chair. I say that we
have introduced one selection into the schools, the Church of
England has introduced six. That is all I say.
Mr. Alderman EvaNs. As having introduced the subject, I
am entitled to reply. I ,hall go into no extraneous matter, ex-
cepting into that regarding the docks. We did meet to elect
thirteen men that we could depend upon to maintain inviolable
the interests of this corporation on that committee. It was ne-
cessary we should not name any other, in order not to destroy
the hold of the Corporation on the docks. I believe we could
not have named any one of our opponents that was not com-
mitted in word and act, to the excluding the corporation from
the docks. (Hear.) That is all I have to say to that. With re-
gard to speeches out of doors, I cerainly should not have no-
ticed them, except they proceeded from the members of our own
body. There is the gravamen of the business; and /could not
overlook this ; I consider this a matter / cannot pass over. I
shall give the gentleman whatever benefit he pleases from the
supposition that he has explained away those words: but to my
understanding be has not. (Cries of "hear," "not a word.")
And I will add, Sir, I will not presume to answer for the coun-
cil, it is nut'for an humble man like me, to cast a shield over
them and protect them ; but as I am included individually, as
an individual I fling back upon the utterer of these injurious
and unwarrantable terms—l fling them buck upon him with
all the scorn and contempt that is due to falsehood. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH immediately rose to re-
ply, but was assailed with almost deafening reiterations of
" spoke," " spoke," " spoke." Mr. Heyworth endeavoured
for some time to speak, but was unable to make his voice audi-
ble over a tumult which exceeded anything we ever heard in
-any organized meeting. Finding the attempt useless, he at
length sat down, saying, the conduct of the council was most
complimentary to them.
Mr. Councillor BoI.TON immediately rose, and said, "As
there is no question before the council, 1 propose that we pro-
ceed to business".

A dead silence of five or six minutes ensued, during which
time, the Mayor held a consultation with Mr. Currie, Mr. Rath-
bone' the Town-clerk, and others. After which,
The MAYOR said, I feel very great difficulty in the situation
in which I ant placed. I ant sure I wish to discharge the duty
imposed upon me, as well as'l can. The latter part of this
question has certainly assumed a character it had not before,
and Mr. Alderman Evans made use of a word—l think " false-
hood" was stated.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—" Yes."

The MAYOR.—And upon that one point, I think Mr. Evans
will have no objection to explain—that one point to Mr. Hey-
worth.

A silence of some moments occurred, during which time, Mr.
Alderman Evans sat perfectly still.
Mr. Councillor JAMES H EYWORTH.—Why should I explain
it. I have explained all I mean to explain.
The MA YO R.—l hope you will not take offence.
Mr. Councillor JAMES Hut woent.—l have discharged nay
duty.
The MA TOR.--I hope you will not be offended at me in
having consulted a friend or two in order to allow you to depart
from the general rules of the council. If you don't wish to say
anything further, we can proceed.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—If the council are not
convinced by what I have said, that anything I have mis-
stated in my observations has been a mistake and not a false-
hood, no possible exp tion I could make would be of any
avail. I would offer no disrespect to any man. I feel that there
is a proper degree of courtesy due to every individual; and I
feel that a transgression of that rule has been most flagrantly
committed in the present instance, and an outrage made on all
decency of language. I did not speak a falsehood; I spoke the
truth. (Mr. Heyworth again sat down amidst much confusion.)
Mr. Councillor RATHBONE.—We must have a pledge that
this quarrel does not go out of this room. It must be settled
here. I beg to move that the Mayor be requested to require
that engagement from the parties before they leave the room.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—I have no pledge,—" no
oath recorded in heaven", but I have some regard for morality,
for religion, and also of the necessity and propriety of defending
myself. I have opinions which would prevent me from the line
of conduct which the pioposition of Mr. Ratbbone has in view.
I feel that I have a courage to do everything that is right, and I
possess feelings which I hope would prevent me from doing any-
thing that was wrong. (Much confusion.)
Mr. Councillor MORECROFT, (after a pause,) to settle this
matter I have a resolution to propose. lam not one that is sa-
tisfied with the explanation that has been given. I beg to move
this resolution "that the charges brought by Mr. Heyworth
against the Members of the Common Council of being a servile
majority, of sacrificing the Bible in the public schools, and of
coming to the Council pre-decided, are untrue." I beg to move
that Sir.

Mr. Councillor BRIGHT.-1 beg to second that motion.—
Whatever distinctions may be supposed to exist out of doors,
I know none in this room. (Hear.) As the representative of
a Ward of independent burgesses, I feel that they are attacked
through this charge which has been brought against the Mein-
bers of the Council. I stand here as an independent man. As
I before observed distinctions may be supposed to exist out of
doors, but in this room I know none, and therefore I feel as in-
dependent as the best or the proudest of you all. (Hear, hear.)
Nor will I consent that the Ward I represent shall be insulted
by me. 1 have in all cases been governed by my conscience.—
If my judgment has erred my heart is right. (Hear, hear.)
In every vote 1 have given, I have given it conscientiously, and
as long as I stand here I trust I shall do my duty. (Hear,
hear.)
Mr. Councillor JOHST SMITH.—I consider this subject ought
to drop. I beg to move that we proceed to the business of the
day.

Mr. Councillor J. N. Woon.—l beg to second that.
Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE HEYWORTII.—There has been an
amendment proposed on a motion and I wish to state my views.
I am afraid if we take that first resolution and adopt it in this
Council we shall act a very tyrannical part. Men have various
opinions and various shades of opinions, and if those opinions
are not to be discussed out of this room, but to be deterred
by such a vote as that, away goes `' liberality" altogether. No
more liberty exists if men are to be brought before this tribunal
and there condemned as that resolution seems to imply. Then
instead of having a proper feeling towards each other we raise
ourselves to tyrants, who having got the power are determined
to exercise it with'the most flagrant injustice. I shall as a pub-
lic man lament it to the last day of my life if such a vile resolu-
tion is passed. (Here the uproar was again renewed with
deafening cries of " Order,") It is "vile," because it infringes
on the choicest blessing we have—our liberty, and every
thing which trenches on our liberty is vile. Whatever it may
be, my brother has withdrawn the odious nature of the words.
(Great confusion, and cries of " No," " no he has not.")
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEY WORTH.—I beg to state, that I
have explained sufficiently to every candid mind. The words
are before the public, and with my explanation of them before
you. If lam wrong let me be punished by the judgment of
the public; they are the legitimate party to judge. (Cries of
" No, no.") I have said all I wish to say, and I don't care a
rush, whether the resolution is passed or not.
Mr. Councillor MORECROFT.—Are not wethe representatives
of the public ? (Hear.)
The :lla yoa.—Whatever resolution you please to move I am
bound to put it from the chair.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTlL—Certainly. You pay
me a great compliment. The whole of the prooceedings of this
day have been complimentary to me.
Mr. Councillor L A WRENCE#IEY WORTH.—I trust for the sake
of decency, and justice, that the resolution will not be passed.
I advocate the amendment. '

The MAYOR (to Mr. James Heyworth).—l understand you
to say the whole proceedings have been complimentary. If you
think I ought not to put this. resolution in the situation in which
I am, I wish you to state it. I wish you to state distinctly,
whether I ought to put this resolution ? (With great warmth.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES Hintwokni.—l have no power over
you. Neither the rules of courtesy nor the rules of this council
can require such an observation from you to me. lam much
obliged to you for it. Ido not charge any member with false-
hood; any member may be mistaken in his views, and when
you charged the universities with being " shut out from the
light of reason"—(An immediate, and indiscribable uproar
drowned the conclusion of the sentence, in which the voice of
Mr. Alderman Barclay was heard predominant, reiterating,
" Shame, shame.")
In the midst of this glorious row,

The MAYOR started up with great beat, saying, " that has
nothing to do with it—that is another Matter, sir. I thought
by the observation that he has made, that he would insinuate
that I had no right to put the resolution.
Mr. Councillor JAMES H.EywosTu.—Certainly not.
The MAYOR.-1 beg your pardon, I so understood.
A pause here ensued, and there was a loud buzzing noise, as
if every member was talking. At length
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN rose, and order having been
somewhat restored, said, Mr. Heyworth has stated, that sub-
stantially what the report stated as his sentiments, are his ;
though he does not take on himself to speak to the words.
There may b e a difference in the words, but he does adhere to the
substance, and he steadfastly adhers to the;sentiments which are
there expressed as sentiments which he has expressed in this room.
I would like to ask the councillor for Everton Ward, (Mr. Jas.
Heyworth) what explanation he can give of the terms "servile
majority," as applied to this body, to prevent their being per-
sonally offensive to the individual members of this council ? I
wish to put it to his reflection, to his calm judgment, if I had
used the expression at a ward meeting, that he came here
" bound-hand and foot," whether he would not think such an
observation as adddressed to himself an offensive expression,
and such as ought to be withdrawn ?
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—Certainly not.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURNE.—Then he would not think it
disrespectful ?
There was a short pause, and Mr. Heyworth made no reply.
Several of the members immediately exclaimed, " then there
is an end of the matter."

Mr. Councillor JAMES HEY WOETH--Certainly not; I don't
know who the members were who met at the Angel Inn.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN.—Then, I ask how any man can
attach an expression to a body which does not attach to an
individual ? Men don't act in bodies in that way, so as to throw
off all responsibility at all. Every man is responsible for his
own acts. You cast a reflection on a large portion of the body
constituting this council. You say as much as that they are
led by the nose by some member who takes a lead amongst
them. Is that a reflection Mr. Ileyworth would think justified.
If I made use of such an expression in the warmth of argu-
ment, I should feel bound to give an explanation. It is (den-
siveln its very nature. It says that one or two of those in-
dividuals are persons who do not think for themselves; and if
anything is offensive, that is offensive. I thought 1 would just
put one point, whether he would strictly adhere to that. For
my own part, I shall vote for the previous question. I shall
not vote for the recording on our minutes of a direct censure
of those sentiments ; not because I approve of them—not be-
cause Ido not think them censurable. Strong language ought
to be used with regard to them, and that member would do well
to withdraw them, and put an end to the question by making
an explanation which ought to be made; but I shall vote to
proceed to business, because I think it is making the subject of
too much importance. I think it letter to let the matter rest
here. I merely put it to him again, as a matter for his con-
sideration, whether applying the term " a servile majority," is
not very offensive to every member here?
Mr. Councillor RATIIEONE rose amidst loud cries of "Spoke,
spoke." I only wanted to speak in explanation of one remark.
The Mayott.—He has not spoken on this business.
Mr. CouncillorHOPE.—l should be glad if the mover of the
motion would withdraw it. (Loud cries of "No, no.") 'lt is
attaching too much importance to the subject.
Mr. Councillor It ATHuoNE.—Why, I would vote for the mo-
tion if it is put. If it had been Merely a convivial meeting, and
remarks had been made in broggaducia that " I am prepared to
repeat this in the, council," it would be different. But, as it is
held forth that he is prepared to beard us in our own council at
such a meeting, these expressions should be noticed. (Hear,
hear, and great confusion.)
Mr, Councillor CURRIE rose, and when order had been re-
stored, said—l should feel a reluctance to pass a vote of censure
on a newspaper report, and also on another ground ; because I
am williii.g to make great allowances for those persons—l speak
it without disrespect—for those persons who unfortunately 1,4 y

DEC. 9, 18.36•

ilty
nature are guilty of a volubility of expression—who are gu
_„,
of words they would not in cooler moments make use of. I cu"f
Sider the place and the occasion—that he was at a meeting e
the ward which he represents; and I consider the audience ,_en-
tertaining his views diametrically opposed to those of
majority of this body, and I am willing to make allowance
expressions which the councillor himself says he does not pre..
cisely recollect. He entertains opinions different to the inc:f
jority of this council. We know that he does not pledge himo.
to the expressions. When he says that, lam willing for one
to let the thing pass by; but I do think the idea of recordinees
vote on this question is giving it an importance which it
do
not deserve, considering the quarter from which it comes.
Mr. Councillor MouEcaoFT.—l certainly very reluctantly
withdraw this ; because I conceive it is not an insult only to
but it is an insult to our constituents. I conceive, sir, that 11'
has been stated that this was a convivial meeting; but when
culprit is brought before a magistrate for having got too nt"
drink—(loud cries of " No, no" which drowned the conclusion
of the sentence.) Perhaps itwould be making Mr. HeY."lt t
too much to record such a resolution on our minutes, and in tha
respect I will withdraw it.
he MAymt.—l am very glad. I hope this discussion will
prevent anything of the kind goiny on again, and all gentlemen
will be guarded in expressions, which cannot 'be justified, on this
council.
The usual routine of business was then commenced, and the
deputy town-clerk read over the minutes of the last meeting.

FINANCE COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS.
At a meeting of the committee on the 11th of November W,
Wallace Currie, Esq., was elected chairman in the room a'
Alexander Leatbom, who vacated his seat on his election as
chairman of the dock committee.
art of the
The TOWN-CLERK read a lengthy document, as ,
p
proceedings of the finance committee, which he had forwarden
to that committee. The substance of it was, that he had tonal'
dered it his duty to ascertain whether the corporation was liable
to contribute to the parish under the reform act. The corpora'
fund was no lonerdisposable of at the will of the council. It!
corporation, like individuals, was rateable with respect to in
vidual occupation ; but he contended that the corporation go"
in the light of-a public trust, and ought, on the same grounds as
other trusts, to be exempted from the payment of parish rates:
He instanced the cases of the River NI, eaver trust and the dock
trust. The 92d section of the municipal act laid down the Pur-
poses to which the borouh fund should be applied---4o the Par,
tnent of the various officers of the corporation, expenses
prosecutions of offenders, maintaining the gaol, the constabu-
lary, lary, and other expenses, which should be necessarily incurred _
in carrying into effect the provisions of the act. The surplus t°
be applied to the improvement of the borough, and in case of a
deficiency. that defficiency to be made good by a borough rat
ei;
The municipal act by the 92d section threw on to the boroug
fund charges borne by the county, for which the county was
accounted in the parish rate; and by the 117th section of the
municipal act the whole residue of the county charges falling o,l'
the parish were to be paid by the corporation out of the borough
fund. The county rate from which the palish was exonerate,'
amounted to £11,583 17s. sd. per annum on an average of the
last seven years. The parish rate reduced by this exoneration
charged the corporation £4,126. 165.; consequently, if the cor-
poration be not liab'_e to the rate, the palish would still Pi°
£7,457. Is. 31 at the expense of the borough fund, and the
whole parish must immediately feel this relief. Several coun-
sels' opinions had been taken on the subject, and the prepon-
derance in number and authority was in favour of the corpora:
tion not being rateable, and the opinion was to appeal against
the rate. He had taken the necessary steps for forwarding that
appeal, and, if not opposed, an amicable arrangement would be
come to at the borough sessions for taking a pro forma decision,
and which might be done at an expense of £l5O. It was neces-
sary that the qnestion should he legally settled.
The proceedings of this committee were then confirmed.

LEASES' COMMITTEE.
A number of applications for leases were read. Proceeding*
confirmed.

WATCH COMMITTEE.
At a meeting of the Watch Committee on the 4th of Nev.'
Mr. Joshua Walmsley was elected Chairman of the Committee
for the ensuing year.
A lengthy document was read recommending that there
should be some directing control over the collectors of the ratesr
as too much was left to their discretion, and recounning the ar
pointmentment of two additional collectors.
Resolved that the salary of the collectors be £lBO per annum
with a bOnus at the end of the veer, to be given according t(7
merit, but no salary to exceed £2lO per annum.
Resolved that Thomas Armstrong and William Santly, Ju
from their uniform good conduct in the treasurer's (Ace, 'e
appointed as the new collectors ; and that an advertisement be
inserted in the papers for the appointment of two clerks to h,
the vacancy caused by their appointment.
At a meeting of the Sub-Committee of the Watch Committee
held the 12th November, 1836, present Joshua Walmsley,
Chairman, &c. &c. &c., a leading article in the Liverpool gel,
Nov. 12, impeaching the conduct and character of individm"s
of the police force, having been read, it was resolved unto!"
mously, that the Chairman do write to the Editor of the Math,
requesting his attendance before the Committee ou 'Tuesday
afternoon next, to substantiate the charges, and produce the
proofs mentioned in the leading article of his paper of that date:
In compliance with this resolution, the chairman sent the fOl
lowing letter :

"TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL MAIL.
" Liverpool, 12th Nov., 1836. _
" Sin,—ln the Liverpcol Mail, of this morning, I perceive
following statement in the leading article We assert, vot's
out any fear of contradiction sustained by facts, that there 134
been no diminution of crime since the introduction of the no'.
police. On the contrary, we believe that so fdr as the pollee
themselves are concerned, there has been an increase of crime,
an increase of cruelty, an increase of false swearing, an increabe,
of lying, an increase of suborned testimony, an increase ).1
venal and profligate informations, an increase of extortion,
bery, and corruption, an increase of intimidation and commu-
table license, and an increase of remorseless, 'invidious, attu
unpardonable oppression. We believe all this, and are able to
prove it, if required.' As Chairman of the Watch Committee'
I beg to inform you, that a Sub-committee will sit at the office
in Fenwick-street, on Tuesday next, the 15th instant, at three
o'clock. And, as the statement in the Mail is calculated mate-
rially to affect the character and efficiency of individuals of the
police force, the committee, anxious to investigate such charges,
request the favour of your attendance with proofs.—l am, Sir,
yours respectfully, JOSHUA WALMSLEY, Chairman.' "

" At a meeting of the Watch Committee, held this 19th Nov,
1836, present Joshua Wahnsley, Esq., Chairman, &c. &c. Ste.,
Resolved unanimously, That the Editor of the Liverpool Mail,
not having complied with the respectful request of the Sub-
committee, in reference to the assertion in his Journal of Satur-
day last, impeaching the character and conduct of individuals
of the police force, this Committee, in the absence of proofs,
which he deelared himself ready to produce, feel themselves
bound in duty to declare, that the allegations made, by him are
unfounded. And it was further resolved, that, in justice to the
character of the police force, the resolution of the Sub-commit"
tee and the letter of the chairman, together with the foregoing
resolution, be published once in each of the Liverpool papo,r,-
" By order, CAPES ASHLIN, Secietury•
Proceedings confirmed.

IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE.
An application for land from the Union Bank declined..-
cept on terms of a negotiation for some other land. If this!!
declined, the purchase recently made by the Union Bank 11l
be included in the intended improvement bill.—Proceeding'
confirmed.

TOWN DUES COMMITTEE.
The amount of the dues of Mr. Bibby and others were order-
ed to be made out.

Mr. Alderman LEATIMMII said it might he necessary to ex-
plain why they had taken proceedings against one of their owo
body. Jr. Bibby claimed exemption from town-dues, on the
ground of having taken out his freedom. The committee thought
he had no grounds on which to claim to be exempted, and had
ordered an action to be commenced against him, and others who
also claimed exemption.—Procoedings confirmed.

AIARKET COMMITTEE.
A notice had been received from the Liverpool and Manches-
Fish Company, that they were about -to be dissolved, and that
stalls for them in the Fish-market would not be required.--
Proceedings confirmed.

TOWN-BALL ESTABLISHMENT COMMITTEE.
Resolved, that the keeper of the Sessions-house be required
not to furnish any more stationary for the assize courts without
further orders from the committee.—Proceedings confirmed.

EDUCATION COMMITTEE.
Resolved, that Mr. liathbone be elected chairman for the
ensuing year.—Proceedings confirmed.
Mr. Councillor RATHBONE said he wished to make one re-
mark about the schools. He did not wish to carry on into the
enemies camp, but there had been a placard written by the
Rev. Hugh M`Neile, put into the schools. It was a very silly
affair, very cleverly done, he must admit. He only wished it
to go forward to the public, that the people may know what,
they are to expect from the Rev. Rector Campbell's mode
tuition of the children. Every child had that ridiculous thing
put into its band. He wished to know whether that was the
way to encourage christian feeling ?

DOCK COMMITTEE.
Resolved, that the attention of the councillors be drawn to the
insufficient state of the vavement in Bath-street.—Proceedings
confirmed. _ . _

A letter was addressed to the council, signed Charles Pain.
The letter complained that the writer had not been fairly dealt
with by the council, in a contract for some hats.
A long explanation was entered into by Mr. Walmsley, to the,
effect, that a smaller order was given him merely as a trial °'
his hats, as they were not considered as good as other samples-
The following aldermen were then chosen for some of the
wards: Scotland ward Aldetman Blain; St. Paul's ward, Aid-
Stuart; Exchangeward, Alderman Brown ; Castle-street
ward, Alderman Robinson; St. Peter's ward, Alderman Lila"
them ; Pitt-steet ward, Alderman Booth ;
Great George 07
street ward, Alderman Freme ; Lime-street ward, Alderman
Heyworth ; West Derby ward, Alderman Moon : North TO.
teth ward, Alderman Jones; South Toxteth ward, Aldermen'
Smith. The remainder to be chosen at the next meeting.

ASSESSMENT OF THE WATCH RATE.
The TOWN-CLERK said, the Council was empowered to levt
the old rate for the nightly watch. The Watch Committee ha
ascertained the average annual ratefor the last seven years t°
be £8,527 12s. lid, and this was the amount for which they were,
entitled to levy. This was the amount levied, but it was no'
competent to pay the day and night police by one-half. The
nearest rate that could he levied to the sum above stated, wa,s
two pence and six-seventeenths of a penny in the pound, wh„if;
gave £8,515 18s. Id., with which they must be content. lu
next proceeding would be for the Mayor to issue his warrant to
the High Constable for the levy.
MR. RATHBONE said, it might be necessary to state, that this
was not a borough rate, nor was it any increase whatever.
The TowN-CLERK explained that it was not in their p oiler
to levy for more than the old rate, and that this levy being °Vet
the whole borough, new and old, there would be a great saving
to the community. • de
Mr.WALrtsLEY gave a recapitulation of the statements mai_
by the Town-clerk with regard to the rates payable by the
borough fund, and those of which the parish was exempted ""f
the municipal bill, and concluded by moving tile adoption )_,
certain resolutions on this subject read by the "rown-cleric
which were seconded by Alderman Fretne.

RATE.
Mr. ROBINSON saidBOROUGH,
that Mr. Walmsley had said if there
should ever be a deficiency impression) be a borough rate.--
There was a very general out of doors thar there
was to.be a borough rate levied. He wished to be informed ou
the subject.
The TOWN-CLERK said, as far as he could understand be
thought there would he nn borough rate.
an
Mr. Councillor CURRIE said, the Town-clerk in answer to
enquiry of Mr. Robinson stated, that his own opinion was, that
there would be no necessity for i borough rate. " I take the op-
portunity of saying, that from my official capacity, I know tb
n,
the question of a borough rate never was talked of or thoug
of." (Hear.)

THE LIVERPOOL NEW GAS AND COKE COWPANY•
The TOWN CLERK read a memorial, signed Benjamin Tho-
mas, from the Liverpool new s nd coke company. The
memorial stated, that, that company had ascertained that the
Council had entered into a contract with the old gas companY,
for lighting Everton and West Derby. The act of parliamen'
on which the new gas company was formed. gave that company
the exclusive right of entering those townships. It also stated,

DFC. 9, IS6

that by tiv:ir act they could not divide more than If) per cent.
profit amongst the shareholders, which amount was rapidly ac-
cruing to them, and when that amount of profit should be ar-
rived at they would be able to supply-the public with gas at a
reduced rate. The company, if the contract with the old coin-
-I:l4ny were attempted to be fulfilled, intended to take measures
to prevent the Infringement of their rights.
'life memorial was referred to the lighting Committee.
Mr. Councillor JORDAN moved that a nuisance of an en-
croached wall in Duke-street, be referred to the improvement
'committee. Referred.

The MAYOR moved that the police court he properly venti-
lated, as at present it was uncomfortable for the magistrates to
sit in it. Agreed to.
The Council then ly-oke up at a quarter past three o'clock,
baying sat upwards of four hours.