The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-06-07 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD, TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 1853.

William
Allanson.--1 am a cabinetmaker, and live at
Birkenhead. I am a freeman of Liverpool, and can
s:arcely recollect whether I voted at the last electioanr.l
rather think I did. I did vote for Mackenzie and Tner.
I am a carpenter by trade, and was at that time
the
eine
business for myself at Kirkdale. At the
time
o
d
election I did the work of the Everton an Kirkdale
Committee. It was at the corner of Mersey-street, Scot-
land road. It was a shop. I assisted in building it u
His
up
as a committee-room. Mr. Roskell employed me.
Christian.name is Thos. Eleetwood. I saw Ininwriitintigat
.
thecornmitteP-room. I saw him the morning of t he ec rm
The work I did was ss. 6d., and Mr. Roskell paid em e. I
Was paid two or three days after the election, near that
gentleman's shop door. I had been at work altogether
four or five hours. Mr. Charles Henry Horsfall, I think,
I also saw in the committee room. Ido not know posi-
tively that Mr. Horsfall's name is Charles ; it may be
George. T saw one or two more, but did not know them.
Mr. Roskell and Mr. Horsfall sat in the room writing.
Mr. Horsfall is a merchant ;he is tall and thin. Ido not
know any other person named Horsfall. He lives some-
Where about Everton; and, from his appearance, I would
take him to be between thirty and forty. I don't know
What business he carries on, nor if he has any partners.
out
the CHAIRMAN : I have seen this Mr. Horsfall
nbont Everton. He was first pointed out to me in a house
in Castle-street, Kirkdale, about a fortnight before the
election. I would know him if I saw him. I have not
seen him in London. A person of the name of Whittle
and Mr. Webster were the parties who told me who Mr.
Horsfall was the first time I saw him. Mr. Webster keeps
the Liver Inn. I have not seen Mr. Horsfall for a long
time. The first time I was here I thought I saw him, but
it turned out to be another person.
It was objected to the further examination of this
Witness that the identity of Mr. Horsfall had not been
established,
In reply to Mr. RODWELL, the witness remarked that
Mr. Horgan was not unlike himself (Mr. Rodwell).
Mr. RODWELL : Then I must not ask too many ques-
tions. (Laughter.) But we shall see when he comes.
George Turner : I am a shoemaker, in Prussia-street,
and as a householder voted at the last election for Macken-
tie and Turner. 1 was canvassed for Mackenzie and
Turner, and I was canvassed for Cardwell and Ewart by
Mr. Evans, and promised them my vote. Mr. Evans is a
master tailor. A few days afterwards 1 applied to Mr.
t vans to give roe something to do. He said he had
nothing for me. I knew Thomas Pearson, a printer, in
Liverpool, who was canvassing for Mackenzie and Turner.
I told him what I wanted, and he said if I voted for those
men he would find me something to do. On that condi-
tion I signed the requisition : it was in St. Paul's-square
I signed it. Jonas Gleave was the landlord of the house
I occupied, and Pearson told me that I should see Jonas
Gleave and vote with him. I was indebted to Gleave at
that time about 46, a little more than a quarter's tent.
When Pearson told me this I did not object to it. He
told me that if I went to Jonas Gleave's I would be put
down upon the book and employed, and that the money I
Was to reeeive*farthat employment was to go to the
pay-
ment of the account which I owed to Jonas cleave. That
conversation took place a short time before the election.
He said I should be well paid for my trouble if I'voted for
Ilackenzie ataTurner. I saw Gleave a day or two after-
wards at his own house, the Derby Arms. and was
introtinced tb him by Mr. Pearson, who told Gleave that
it was my intention to vote for the other party, but that
e could persuade me over if they would find me some-
thing to do. He further explained how this was to go
against the tent which I owed him for my house. There
wer •e n 'specified terms, but as to howl was to be em-
rn ployed I was told that I was to be at Mays public-house,
sitatruneetitin ghs
-street the day after, and to-remain there for
and do what they thought proper. I went
there,-and remained till after the polling. Sometimes I
bad no co an errand : voters came there and I gave them
'their palling cards, and "Is
• te d so far as I could. had
nothing to do withcanvassing. i was there for six or
Seven days, I went on messages to the Swan, where I
'saw Mr. Gleave and varieras other pattie engaged in the
business of the election. I also went to the Derby Arms,
to Mr. G. Scott Russell, and to others. On the Saturday
after the election my account was settled. I had been
'employed six or seven days. I was-paid for two or two-
"and-a-half days more than I was really employed. All I
,got in money was 12a. 6cl and the rest went to pay the
tent. I don't recollect how much was set off against the
lent : only a few weeks, the rent each week amounting to
epj
wp..
ec6d.
thattion, Russell among the rest. I wanted 10s. a-day,
cou le of they objected to, but they made an allowance of a
p days more, to make it up. I think they reckoned
about 6s. a day. i don't remember what was the entire
amount of my remuneration.
_ Cross-examined:: 'I wanted 10s. a-day for seven days.
was employed about six days. I asked 10s., but they
only gave me 6s. a-day. 'I
-got I2s. 6d. in cash, and in my
tent-book credit was given' for a sum which I don't just
remember i made out a bill for six days. and I was pafd
for six days. 'There was -a word said about two extra
days by Russell. I think Russell told me to chargea.
a-day. lam not positive that I received more in cash
than £1 12s. '&1. ; it -was that amount within a 'few
ehllings. I was-actively employed four days and a-half; or
somewhere about four, 'and-so I added two and made it
Six. I was nerOin business that time. I had been a boot
and shoemaker. I have paid my rent months ago. I-was
distrained upon •by Mr: Gleave. The bailiffs came, and
I went to him and was a little angry, but did not tell'hina
he should smart for it, or that I would have ray revenge—
not to my knowledge. I did threaten to put him into court for a few shillings he owed me: I did not put it
into court. I never threatened him with anything' that
took place with referenrp to the Livernool election. I
Swear that I have not said a word to Jonas Gleavetwith
reference to his conduct at the last general election.
Mr. Ron-WILL : Have you said so to anyone else ?
Witness: That is a different matter.
Mr. RODWFYLL : Who did you speak to about in
Witness: ICo, I never did.

Mr. RorrwntA, : Do you deny that you said to-same
One, " I will be revenged upon the long fellow, -and
show him up when I go up to London ?"

Witness: I never did.
Mr. RanwELL : Did you break your promise to' Mr.
Cardwell and Mr. Evart f0r...C.1 12s. 6d.

Witness: can't deny the fact.
Mr. Rorrwx:.l. : How long was it before the election
When you promised your vote:

. ..
Witness:: I signed the reeuisition on the Sunday
Zooming.
Cross-examination continued: I have not been much
with the Reform party since I voted at the election. I
dare say I have stated what took place at the election to
several parties. I went to York Buildings, in Liverpool.
ildr. Brans, tailor, took me there. I can't tell any party
to whom I mentioned the affair-before yesterday week.
By Mr. BODKIN : I have mever threatened Jonas
Cleave except in saying at one time that I would,put
him into the county court.
Samuel Hesketh : I am a freeman, and at the last
Liverpool election voted for Mackenzie and Turner. -1
know the 'wen, and I was there the night before the
I went"
of
to see if my son could get a colour
cause I. k
ne,, it w my own a: acrd. I went there be-
aa on the side I wished to vote for,
Mackenzie and Turner's. scent Ito see if I could -find
Jonas Gleave. I saw him, and he told me to come down
next morning. Besides Gleave, I saw other persons pre-
pent Jonas said my son was too young, being only
between 17 and 18. He told me that I was to come
down to his house next morning to.cee whether my eon
could carry the .colours or not. I did go down, and took
MY son with me. I got a colour for my son to carry, his
/ulnae having been put down to carry st flag. He said he
would find me an easier job than carrying a colour. That
Was on the nomination-day, and in the Derby Arms, the
house occupied by Jonas Gleave. Besides Jonas Gleave
there was a man in the yard who put -the names down.
lie put them down in a small memorandum-book, and
he wrote them down while he was in the yard. He put
down my name, add my son's also; at least when I gave
him my name he put down something -in the book. I
went to the hustings in the procession. I slid not carry a
banner, although my son did. A great many were oar-
71.ring colours. Jonas Gleave gave me 3s. f 4. for my son
tarrying the colours. He paid me it with his own hand.
f, paid my son Is.kept the rest to present
at I did not see anybody but Gleave present
at the time when I was paid. lam a master-roper, and
ifithefoprolinlinYgse-ldfa.Y * for my vote
Y noperson whatever. cl I was atJonas Gleave's on the morning
at.evelrw. as promised nothing
Cross-examined : I have always voted Red for years.,s
electin..
eliAegGottitoTti: I
, laY IStir p
voted "Red" since Totter
Denison's £lO for voting ~ Red" at Escort and
have .
Charles Seedc
_objected to by Mr. James,
on the was called, and
trove thgeround that his name was not in the list.
_T_ o
Est)"" 1 a '
'Jon a-geeey, he was afterwards exaanmdinveodtedbyat3tlbre.
st elect. m a freeman of Liverpool,
to; car, election for Turner and 3lackenzie. I was employed
'al be !,.a colour on the day of the nomination. A man
was paYild,.o the Derby Arms put my name down. I
his house `14,41ey after the election by Jonas Gleave, at
ipself at ti...at,l.e•est, in the lobby of the house. I was by
Pay anybodvmpi
eowa my
,n--: tulle. The man was not there who had put
there.
+tor did I see the book. I did not see
Horse, in the —Be. I know a public-house called the Bay
I, go a deg, e London-road, kept by a man named Tracy.
eleht, b t - I know Mr. John Buck Lloyd by
Ileighhouu never
rs there.
saw him at that house. 1 have my own
The inquiry was then Adjourned till next morning.

atn of
The • • SATURDAY, JUNE 4.
ex : i
ancltiootrY was resumed at eleven o'clock, by the
jor.
/ on ° Dimsdale, examined by Mr. Booms, who deposed:
tio:l4 freeman of Liverpool, and voted at the last elec-
adVor Mackenzie and Turner. I saw Mr. Mackenzie
, Lug Ad,..l_, •
'lnn' Hotel before the polling day. It was, per-
Went`lsPsa few days or a week before. I was alone when I
an in. I went by myself. I did not communicate with
Y one before I went. I saw Mr. Mackenzie on the
first floor I went up stairs, having been shown up by a
waiter.l was shown to a room where Mr. Mackenzie,
'lir• Cooper, and Mr. Turner were. I shook hands with
both candidates, and " Good morning, sir," was all that
n_assed. There were some other gentlemen present, but
7ho they were I cannot say. A 'gentleman came into the
i,"173 while I was there. I might hare remained in the
thh?onl about five or ten minutes. I knew Mr. Turner by
t, but never saw Mr. Alackenzie before. I bad signed
e requisition to them. They did not speak to me about
furor
vote. Ttiey came out with me. I was a canvasser
that ward, but I cannot say whether I was on the
ecnnnaittee or not. I made a return to the ward com-
lpittee, which met at the Roscoe Head. I could not tell
the names of the committee. There were many in the
r
"m• I can't say who was the chairman. Mr. Payne,
;thon attorne, was on it, and also ooper , the same
orn I hayre previously mentioned. Mr. IC could not swear
that Mr. Payne was the chairman. The secretary, I
nk, was Mr. Cooper. I cculd not say that Mr. Gre-
gory acted as secretary. I could not say whether the one
or the other actea. I have seen several gentlemen writing
there, Mr. Cooper and Mr. Gregory among the rest. I
od
Made my returns, not every day, but every other day. I
h a canvassing book. I know Mr. Culshew by sight ;

I have seen him in the room. I have seen Mr. Shaw,
but T can't say that I have seen Mr. Thomas Fleming.
Mr. Jones, Mr. S. Jones, Mr. Henry Bremner, nor Mr.
Copeland. I don't believe I did go to the committee-
rooms to make my returns that day. I went to visit the
members at the hotel in consequence of having been sent
for. There are a few voters in the neighbourhood of Gill-
street Market, perhaps five or six. I had not any con-
versation at any time with Mr. Forbes Mackenzie about
employment at the Custom-house, at least, not before the
election. I had after the election. I applied for a situa-
tion in the Custom-house. I had not a conversation with
any person before the election about a situation in the
Custom-house. I swear that I had no conversation with
any one. I did not see Mr. Forbes Mackenzie personally
when I made application to him for a situation in the
Custom-house. I have been examined in Liverpool be-
fore on this matter. I had no conversation with Mr.
Mill—none whatever, on the subject. I recollect meeting
that gentleman along with Mr. May and others : Mr.
May and some gentlemen did speak to me about it. They
spoke to me so late as last week. I told them, last Sa-
turday, that I would not satisfy them. Mr. May spoke to
me on several occasions about the matter of a situation. I
dare say I may have mentioned to Mr. May, before the elec-
tion, that I would like to get into the Customs. Ido
not know Mr. Oliver Hatch at all. I have not seen any
one at the Roscoe Head pay any money. I only saw
money given once during the election, but for what I
know not. I was applied to once for money, but said I
could not give it.
Cross-examined : I am a tradesman of Liverpool. The
letter produced is the one I sent to Messrs. Turner and
Mackenzie : I received no answer to it. I sent it some
months after the election. I saw Mr. Mackenzie at the
Adelphi in consequence of a message. I went into the
large room where the candidates were. I did not see Mr.
Mackenzie again till the day of the election—at all events
to speak to. As to the ward committee, it was a standing
committee, which had existed for a long time before.
By the CHAIRMAN : I had no connexion with it before,
and had never been in the habit of going there.
By Mr. SMITH : I can't say that I have assisted in the
municipal elections, except at the one in November last.
The same committee were acting so far as I knew. I be-
lieve the committee existing before the general election
was the same as the one which was employed for Turner
and Mackenzie. I saw several gentlemen writing in the
tommittee-rooms. I don't knew whether Mr. Payne
was chairman. I can't tell who were upon the com-
mittee and who were not. There were a great many
Theirs around the table. I know they went there who
took an interest in the election. I think Mr. Weston
was there.

By Mr. BODKIN : I cannot say that there were placards
posted on the outside of the committee-room : there
might have been. On-the day of the election flags were
hung out of the windows of the committee-room.
By the CHAIRMAN.: The Adelphi is in Rodney-street
ward. There is a large number of voters of the poorer
sort in this district—at least in the part of it which I
canvassed. Most of the voters there were, I believe,
householders. Of the electors the most of them voted
for Mackenzie and Turner.

George Ward -examined : I am a woelbroker in Liver-
pool. I interested myself on the Conservative side at the
last election. I was a member of the committee. Messrs.
Culshaw, May, and Musker, were members. I don't re-
collect Masker acting as a member. Mr. M. Edward
Williams (Mr. Lloyd's partner) was an active member of
the committee. I believe Swetenbem was on the commit-
tee, and I-saw him there. He was in constant attendance
at the Swan committee. I could hardly know the man
if I saw him now. Mr. Jonas Gleave was the secretary,
and George Gleave was clerk.

By Mr. MACAULAY : But did not Swetenham, as Geo.
Gleae vas often drunk, do his duties, when he was in'a-
pable never saw either the one or the other drunk.
I retreinber the name of Swetenham very well, but would
not know him now.

Swetenham was here called into the room, and witness,
in answer to Mr. Macautiky, said, he recognised him as
the same man he had seen in the committee room habi-
tually. I can't say that I have seen him at a small table
or not, but I have seen htm writing. I have seer: him re-
ceive the returns of the canvassers in the room. I have
debiined to make any statement to the parties conducting
the case for the petitioners. I never was called upon to
give it. He was not, to my knowledge, the person who
communicated from the ward committee beard to the
central committee. Ido not know that the committee
-at the Swan held communication with the central com-
mittee. I had nothing to do with the communication to
the central committee. I took very little notice of what
took place. It is net to my memory that there were con-
stant communicrtions betwixt the one committee and the
other. I had nothing to do with that department.
Mr. 'MACAULAY : Then there was a department ?
Witness : I knew there was a central office, for I have
been there ; but I knovv of no despatches being transmitted
thither from the Swan committee. It may have been
sent to the central office, but I was not cognisant of the
fact. I have seen the state of the canvass, but Ido not
know whether it was anybody's duty or business to carry
the state of the canvass to the central dice. We had a
clerk and a chairman, and I swear that I do not know
of any communication whatever between the committee
room and the central office. I swear that, to the best of
my knowledge,' I never heard mention made of any com-
munication from the central office. -I was a member of
the ward committee, which was constituted for prosecuting
the canvass. Occasionally I was present at the meetings
held to discuss the state of the canvass. I was there on
most occasions. I incurred a little expense. I paid a
small hill for nno .f the oorninittoo roorno connected with
-the ward. I paid between 30s. and --C2 to Mr. Rigby,
from whom-the room was taken. That is the only pay-
ment I ever paid on account of -the election. I carried
the memorandum book to Mr. Jones- Gleave, who repaid
me the money subsequently. I am• not aware that any
members of the committee incurred any expenses. We
had a clerk and canvassers—not paid canvassers. that 1
know. There was no doorkeeper, that T know of. At
least I never saw such a person. 'Neither was there a
messenger. I know of no expenses but for stationery and
books. I don't know bow many rooms we had at the
Swan. Ide not know of the small room beside the com-
mittee room. I do not know of a private room. I was
at the Swan on the polling day. had a list of names.
My district was at some distance from the Swan. Nothing
more going on there than what concerned the election.
I went several times during the election to see how the
poll was going on. I merely ran in there as I was passing.
We hadget another house for the convenienceof the polling.
They did not receive slips of thestateof the poll that Iknow
of at the small room for which I paid. 'I don't remember
who the persons were at the swan on the polling day. I
don't remember. Ido not know that-Swetenham was
there. I have no recollection of the subject. He was not
there checking the returns to my knowledge. I had
nothing to cio at the Swan. I did not- see ribbons at the
Swan till the nomination morning. -They were not
rosettes. I saw ribbons merely. The ribbons were from
the general committee rooms, and I saw them given to
those parties who joined in the procession. I don't
know who distributed the ribbons. The ribbons, so
far as I know, were not tied to the top of sticks. I
was there, and did not see them. Except the 40s. paid
for the room employed during the day of the poll, I made
no payment whatever. I had nothing to -do whatever
with the financial affairs. I know of no other outlay. I
may have seen letters from the central committee-room at
our committee ward, but I don't recollect. I have not
seen on the table of our committee-room circulars from
the central office. I swear that I have not. I did not
take any reports to the central-room. I called in to see
how things were moving—nothing more. As a member
of the Swan Committee, I do not know that it was a part
of our duty to communicate with the central-office.

Cross-examined: I am a wool broker in Liverpool.
-This ward committee was a standing body. Mr. Buck
Lloyd was chairman for the municipal election that I
have voted at.; Mr. Jonas Gleave secretary. In my
ward the voters were chiefly householders. I bad a
favourable canvass, which promised a majority ;.a large
majority.

By Mr. MAC AXE. AY : This committee was the -same
body that conducted the municipal election. I never
attended it in the course of a municipal •election. I never,
either at one time ,or another, paid any money towards
payment of the expenses.
Mr. MAcAuLAY-: Who was responsible for the ar..-
penses'?

Question objected to.
By theCtwassAN: I never saw anybody paid except
on the occasion when Itpaid the small bill.
By Mr. TALL.: I did not make any stipulation as to
expenses before I entered upon my duties as a member of
the committee. I believe, from what I have heard since,
that it was the same body that managed the municipal
election.

At this stage of the investigation the room was cleared,
and upon the return of the reporters, the Chairman said,:
I have to inform counsel that the committee have been
considering the length to which the examination in chief
of the witnesses has been proceeded with by the learned
counsel for the petitioners ; and I wish now to express
their opinion, that while they are perfectly aware of the
difficulty of counsel in examining witnesses whom they
believe to be unfavourable, the cornmiVee still think that,
unless the examining counsel have reason to suppose that
the witness is purposely suppressing the facts, the exami-
nation should not be allowed to proceed on the prin-
ciple of a cross-examination, but that it should be con-
fined to the ordinary rule of examination in chief.
John Swetenham, examined by Sergt. KINGLARE, said :
T am in business in Liverpool as a collector of debts. Before
the election I was out of employment. At the time of the
election I went and inquired at Jonas Gleare's if he could
employ me as poll-clerk or anything of that kind at the
election. That was four or five weeks before the election.
He is a plumber and a publican. I know him for many
years. He said he could not give me full employment,
but he would give me some. He was to employ me in
the committee-room, at his own house. I began on
Wednesday morning, when I went to the Derby Arms,
and commenced business in a private room by myself.
I found the books at which I was employed in the room.
I was occupied in that room for several days ; I cannot tell
how many; and then I was told to go to the Swan. The
committee-room was opened across the road. I did go.
I went to one of the upper rooms on the first floor.
I saw there, while I was writing, various persons,—some
of them who were closeted with me. Mr. Riding, who
was chairman, was there, and I also saw Mr. J. Buck
Lloyd, who was an elector of the ward. Jonas Gleeve was
the secretary, but I can't say how many were on the com-
mittee. Mr. Leader was one whom I have seen there,
also Mr. Musker, Mr. Cooper, and Edward Wil-
the latter of whom was frequently in and
of the room. I have seen him running back-
wards and forwards, with notes, &c., which he some-
times handed to Jonas Gleave. I was there at the time
of the election. I was employed at the books and papers.
Canvassers brought statements to me. They called in
and gave in their returns. The canvassers did not set
out from the committee-rooms. I know Mr. Horne ; he
was a canvasser, so was John Smith, now in the post-
office ; a person named Williams, not the same as I men-
tioned before; Russell, whom I understand is an agent
and broker, but I do not know where he lived. The
ward was divided into sixteen divisions, and I supposed
there was a canvasser for each division. I don't know
that the canvassers were paid. Besides attending to the

canvass I wrote circulars, having been ordered to do so by
Jonas Gleave. 1 had nothing else to do. This was done
in the room up stairs. I kept the book till the election
was over. It was open in the rooms for any one to look
at. I know a room, No. 26, North John-street. I only
went once to that room for canvass books, when we were
short. I was sent by Mr. Jonas Gleave. He told me to
go to Mr. Buckmaster's office. I went and saw one of
the clerks, telling him that I wanted canvass books for the
Lime-street Ward Committee, and also a burgess list, as
ours had been destroyed. I said Jonas Gleave had sent
me. That was the only time I went. I believe I did
take one note to the secretary. I had instructions to
leave it for Mr. Buckmaster. I don't recollect the name
of any one I saw there. There was a placard with the
names of Turner and Mackenzie at our room. There
was no placard at the central office, in North John-
street that I know of,—at least with the candidates'
names upon it. At the ward committee office the rooms
were on the first floor. There was a small room, to
which the gentlemen occasionally retired. You had to
cross the landing. We had not the second room for
more than a few days that I know of. We had not a
third room that I am aware of. I never saw Messrs.
Mackenzie and Turner at Jonas Gleave's house. I have
seen them at the committee-room, where we procured
the canvass books. Jonas Gleave was present on several
occasions of the kind. I believe the candidates always
came together. They spoke about nothing but the canvass
and its progress. The canvassers usually attended the
candidates when they visited the ward-room. I saw Mr.
Thomas Bold in the room once. I did not see Mr. Hors.
fall there. It was a few days previous to the election
when Mr. Bold came. I don't know Mr. Buckley Jones.
I saw Mr. Lloyd there probably twice. I saw the members
in St. John's-market once. Jonas Gleave was waiting
with them. I had nothing to do with money accounts,
and I saw none. I never was at Mr. Buck Lloyd's
office before the election, that I remember. I do recollect
going there before the election, a few days. I left a note
for him, I did not see him. I saw Mr. William's, the clerk.
On the first occasion I left a note with one of the clerks.
I never took notes during the election to any of the
others. I only received my wages from Jonas Gleave—
that was all the money I got, I did not see money paid
to any one. I never paid any money myself, nor was I
ever present when money was paid. I have never seen
Jonas Gleave or his w►fe pay money in connexion with
election business. I did not transmit any money at all.
No money, except my wages, passed into my hands. I
have no knowledge of rosettes haying been made up there.
I did not give my wife any secret mark to put upon a
rosette. I never saw what was called an 1.0. U. I heard
talk about one in the committee-room. I heard there
were such things. Numbers of persons were in the room
at the time—sixty or seventy. It might have been some
of the committee who spoke, but I know not. The com-
mittee did not talk about it. I did not hear the committee
talk of it. the talk in the public room was a few days
before the election. I heard it twice or thrice spoken
about. I did not join in the conversation. People were
going backwards and forwards, and so was I. It was not
addressed to any of the committee.

By the CHAIRMAN : I never heard it spoken of by the
committee as a committee.

Examination resumed : I never saw a private card, de-
noting that the bearer was to receive money. I never put
a private mark upon a card to communicate to my wife
the amount of money which was to be given to a voter.
never did pass any communication whatever to my wife,
by any way whatever, for such a purpose. I never sent a
-card or paper to any other person with a mark upon it; I
am certain I did not. I saw men carrying colours on the
day of the election. I was not present when they were
engaged, but I was informed that they were engaged by
Jonas Gleave. I saw a great number with a small stick
and a ribbon attached to it. I saw them in various parts
of the town. To the best of my recollection I have always
given the same account of these transactions. I knew a
person named Vincent, and I swear that I never told him
that I was in receipt of £5OO from Mr. Buck Lloyd's
office, through Mr. Edward Williams, his clerk. I believe
I never told him I was to receive any sum of money. I
never received any money, and I never did say that / re-
ceived it. I never told him or any one that I had gone
twice to Mr. Lloyd's, and that I received from his clerk,
Mr. akVilliams, at -first £4OO and then £lOO. I never said
that money had been passed through a hole in -the wall.
I have never said to any one that I had received money at
Husker's, nor at a hotel in Finch-street, or that I had
paid the money to them. I never said anything to a per-
son named Dixon, that, as my wife had assisted me as a
draper, her knowledge of the private marks favilitated the
payment of money at the election. I remember going to
Staleybridge with-Dixon, and speaking to lam about the
Liverpool election, and not about the bribery and corrup-
tion. i never told him that my wife got the private
mark, and that-she-put the money up for the voters. I
told him that I heard of such things, but I never saw
them.

Cross-examined by Mr. SMITH : There has always
been a committee-room for election purposes in the ward,
Mr. Buck Lloyd being a member of the committee. Jona■
Gleave had been -secretary for some years of the com-
mittee, I believe. Any voters of the ward,-or of any other
ward, could walk in and out of the room. It was open to
anybody. Speeches were made, and it became full occa-
sionally, so that all business was stopped. I saw the
candidates in-St- John's Market, attended by about forty
or fifty people, and among them I saw Mr. Jonas Gleave.
I saw that they were canvassing. I knowtGeorge Turner,
and `I have heard him say that he would " do that long
fellow, Jonas Gleave, and show him up when he got to
London, as he owed him a grudge." ,/ heard him say
that in Lime-street. It was after the election. I told
Jonas Gleave of it, and he told me to -make a memoran-
th,m of it

By the CHAIRMAN: It was known during t4ie day of
the evening on which the candidates visited the committee
room that they were to come. It was always known a
few hours before they came, that they were to visit the
committee.

By Mr. BALL : The committee acted both in municipal
and parliamentary elections, end was composed, I believe,
of the same members and secretary.. Ihave been engaged
before.
Mr. MAC AULAY : 'Was the committee forthat ward for
municipal purposes oom posed of a joint bay, Conservatives
and' Whigs ?
Witness : Yes.

Mary, wife of Thomas Swetenbam, examined by Mr.
MACAULAY, said : I recollect my husband being engaged
in the election. My husband was formerly a draper. I
did not know the trade electors. I was living at Liver-
pool during the time of the election. Ido not recollect
any-gentleman presenting a card to me with a paper or
card, except a voting paper for my father. Never received
from my husband any sem of money to pay to any person.
I did not make any rosettes. I did not see any made up.
I did not pay to any person any sum of money during the
election.

The evidence of this witness—which proved to be socom-
pletely opposed to the hopes of the petitioners—was re-
ceived with much laughter.
Thomas Park Tudor, examined by Mr. BODKIN, de-
posed : am a freeman af,Liverpool, and voted at the last
election for Turner. eIINV Jonas Gleaveat his own
house previous to the election ; he asked metarote for Tur-
ner and Mackenzie. I said yes. This was onthe nomination
day. I had been in before at Gleave's. It was on the
Friday before the election I-first went in. On that occa-
sion I promised to vote for Mackenzie and Turner. I
was drunk. I went again on the Monday and on Tuesday.
The latter.-wcs the nomination day. I was drunk-, although
I was sober at first. I first went about seven or eight
o'clock. atoned Gleave to let me carry a colour, and he
said yes ; he is a decent man i&Gleave, and I cannot give
him a bad character. (Laughter). I got my &s. for
carrying the colour—(laughter)—but that was not bribery.
(Renewed laughter). Gleave paid me the money at his
back yard. .1 don't know what, sort of a colour it was I
carried—whether it was the Union Jack or what it was.
All the other colour-bearers were paid by Gleave at the
same time—one after the other. was Gleave, himself
who paid us. -Some of the men who were paid were
voters. Most of-us were voters. .1 have seen a man
named Swetenhatn. I don't recollect if I saw him that
day, as I was tipsy. [The witness here renewed the most
unequivocal symptoms of being in hisordinary condition.]
On the nomination morning I saw .a man give Gleave
some gold in the parlour. The man who brought the
gold had a red book. I saw Gleave write in the book. I
don't know what he. wrote. I'm no " sehollard." After
writing in the book,.he gave it back to the man. There
were more than one _or two sovereigns. I heard them
talking, but did not hear the subject of theirconversation.
The man might be -there for a quarter .of an hour. J
don't know the tnarez.qame. and I have .not seen him
since. I went, back to the Derby Arma after the nonsi-
,nation. and staid there all night.• I happened to be at
the Swab after the electioq. I walked there. 1 went to
have a look at it. This was after the election. Three
days after it. I went into an-up-stairs room, for ,the pur-
pose of seeing it. (Laughter). I did not find any per-
son In the room—only myself. I had some ale. I did
not notice any hole in the panel of the door. I never saw
any one get anything any time, either down stairs or up
stairs. I saw no hand put through the panel with a rib-
bon containing money wrapt up in it.
Mr. BODKIN: Did you not swear to the solicitors for the
petitioners that, when you went into the room, a haw'
was put through the panel of the door, and every time it
appeared one of the colour-bearers went up, and took the
rosette from it, in which rosette there was a sovereign ?

Witness : I did say that ; but I did not swear it.
Mr. BODKIN: It was false ? it was a lie "r
—But I did
not swear to it.

Hon. Mr. MAXWELL : Do you mean to state that what
you said on a former occasion was not the fact ?

Witness : It was a lie.
Mr. BODKIN: Was that statement not put down in
writing, and signed by you with your mark ?
Witness : I did put my mark to it. That was in a
house where they took me; and, as I wanted to get plenty
of drink out of them, I carried them on ; but what I told
them was all lies. They made me quite drunk then.
(Laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN : Then, do you mean to say you were
drunk when you made the false statement ?
Witness : To be sure ; I was quite drunk.
Mr. BODKIN : Were you sober when you began to tell
the story ?
Witness : No ; I had been drinking for three weeks
before that. (Laughter.)
Mr. BODKIN : How did you get drunk so long ? where
did the money come from ?
Witness : 0, I worked, and got drunk too. (Laughter.)
Mr. BODKIN : You say you got ss. for carrying the
colours on the nomination day ; is that true or false ?

Witness : Oh ! that is quite true. At least they gave
another person the cash to give me, as they said it Would
be bribery to give it to me. Now, I have no more to add,
for if I said any more it would be nothing but a parcel of

Laughter.)

Mr. BODKIN : You have said you told these lies to get
drunk. Have you not been examined since the first time
by a gentleman in London on the part of the petitioners,
when you were quite sober, and when, being quite sober,
you swore to the truth of all that you had previously
stated ?

Witness (after a long pause); I know the gentleman

whom I saw. He is present, and that is him whom you
point out.
The individual alluded to was a clerk in the service of
the solicitors for the petitioners.

Mr. BODKIN : Did you not tell that gentleman last
Friday, on oath, that what you have previously said was
true ?

Witness : I don't recollect.

Mr. BODKIN : Where was it you saw him ?
Witness : At the house where I am living, the Feathers,
in the Waterloo-road.
Mr. BODKIN ; Did he not read a paper to you ?
Witness : I can't exactly say. (Laughter.)
Mr. BODKIN repeated the question, and received the
same, or a very similar reply.
Mr. BODKIN : Do you remember that gentleman
(pointing to the clerk) coming to the house you are stay-
ing at last Friday ?

Witness : I partly remember.
Mr. BALL : Did that gentleman read a paper to you ?
Witness : Not that I remember.
Mr. BODKIN : You only came to town on Friday, I am
told. Then, did that gentleman call upon you on Satur-
day ?

Witness : On Saturday I was drunk, and I don't re-
member. (Laughter.)

Mr. BODKIN : Have you ever seen that gentleman be.
fore ; and if so, when ?
_ _ _

Witness : I have seen him in London, and I have seen
him at Liverpool when I gave my evidence.
Mr. BODKIN : Did be not, since you came to London,
speak to you of the evidence you gave at Liverpool ' • and
did not you, therefore, tell him that what you had said
was quite true ?
Witness : I am on my oath, and I will not tell a lie for
any man living. (Laughter.)

Mr. BODKIN : You have already given me a very good
specimen of your antipathy to lying. Did you not, I
again ask, tell him that what you had previously affirmed
was true ?

Witness : I don't recollect it. I have been drunk every
day since I came to London—(laughter) : ay, and every
night, too. (Continued laughter.)

Mr. BODKIN : What time of the day was it when you
saw the gentleman in London ?

Witness : It was at night ; the night before last, I
think.
Mr. BODKIN : Did he then say anything to you ?
Witness : No.

Mr. BODKIN : Have you seen Jonas Gleave since you
came to London ?
Witness : Yes, I have.

Mr. BODKIN : Did Jonas speak to you of what you
would have to say here ?
Witness ; No ; we merely asked for each other, and
how we were enjoying ourselves. (Laughter.)

The CHAIRMAN : Has not Mr. Jonas Gleave spoken
to you as to what evidence you were to give before this
committee ?

Witness : No.

Mr. BODKIN repeated the question with the same re-
sult precisely ; the witness, after a long hesitation, giving
a decided negative.

The witness was here confronted with the clerk.
The CHAIRMAN : Look at that gentleman. Do you
know him by sight ?
Witness : Yes, I have seen him at Liverpool, and when
be called on me here ! asked him for 55., which he gave me.
The CHAIRMAN : Do you recollect him asking you
about the evidence you had previously given ?
'Witness : No.

Mr. FRESHFIELD: You are not asked, remember,
whether the evidence you gave at Liverpool is true or not,
but you are asked, is it true that you told that gentleman
that what you bad said at Liverpool was perfectly correct ?
No reply

Mr. BALL: You told a story to certain people at Liver-
pool, for drink, you say
itness : Yes.

Mr. BALL : That story was not true ?
Witness : No, it was not.

Mr. BALL:: Do you recollect that gentleman asking you
whether it was true or not?

Witness-: No, I do not recollect.
Mr.WILLIAsts •: What did you say to him, or he to you ?
Witness : I asked him if he'd give me ss. to go some-
where, and he gave it me.
Mr. frsiTITI : They took you to a place where you told
this false story'?
Witness : Yes.

Mr. SMITH ; They gave you drink. Did they pay for it ?
Witness : Yes.

Mr. SMITH:: How long did you sit at that place ?
Witness : Oh, for two or three hours.
Mr. SMITH : What have you had since you came to
London ?

Witness: Oh, only that-55..; but we have as much to
drink at our house as ever we like to call for—in reason,
of course.

Mr.-SMITH': Enough to make you drunk?
Witness : Oh, yes. (Laughter.)

Mr. 3p2iTR : 'You nave-been drunk ever-bium cawe
here ?

Witness: Yes, on Sunday and all. (Laughter.)
Mr. SMITH : Where do you-stay ?
Witness.: With some of the others at the'Feathers Inn,
on the other side of the bridge.
Mr. MAcAuLAY Do you mean to say that -you are
made drunk at that house every day at the expense of
those who brought you-?
'Witness : Yes. (Continuedlaughter.)
Mr. MACACTIAY : Do you mean to swear that.you have
not been round the corner to the whiskey shop, where
you buy liquor yourself?
Witness : 'Only
hter once; and'l only bought a single two-
penny worth. (Laug.)
Mr. MAcAuLier : How wouldit be necessarylar you
to go round the corner and buy your own whiskey, if you
could get it in the house for nothing ?
Witness : Oh, because I was in-the street.
Mr. MACAULAY: But was the place far oft?
Witness: No ; a very short distance.
The CHAIRMAN: Did you get, free of expense, so
much drink that it intoxicated you-?
-Witness : Yes, and could have had more.
The witness was then tord to leave the room.
The inquiry was adjourned at three o'clock till noon on
Monday.
The attendance during the day was not great, although
towards the close of the proceedings the interest seemed
to heighten.

SECOND EDITION.

MONDAY, JUNE 6

The inquiry was resumed this morning at 12 o'clock.
The attendance of strangers was exceedingly small. The
first witness called was

John Calderwood, examined by Mr. PA.GET, who de-
posed
.1 am secretary to 'the Concert-hall Company,
Lord Nelson-street, which is let for the purpose of pub-
lic concerts. I remember that, previous to the last elec-
tion, various meetings of the ward were held in the hall.
The 19th of April, the 4th ofllay, the 16th oflune, and
the 25th of June, were the dates of meetings held in the
hall—the latter a Welsh meeting on the Papal Hierarchy;
and that of the-16th of June was called to hear a lecture
on the Papal• Policy. The first two meetings were com-
posed of the Lime-street ward, the room having been
taken by Jonas Gleave for electioneering purposes. I was
present at the first, on the 19th of April, and heard va-
rious speeches delivered. The meeting on the :Papal
Policy was presided over by Mr. Lewis, and the Rev. Mr.
James was a speaker. The most of the speeches were in
Welsh, and also the lecture on the;Papal Policy. f
not understand Welsh, and so I cannot say that they
referred in their speeches to the election. I was not pre-
sent at the meeting held on the 16th of June. On all
-thosenceasions the room.was taken by Mr. Jonas Weave..
Fr received the money from .Gleave for the one on the
16th included, which was generally ileown as the. Pious
Dodge Meeting." (Laughter). •I do not know who was
in the chair at the 25th of June meeting. I did not see
thetandidates present at any of these meetings.
Cross-examined by Mr. M. -SMITH : The first meeting
was open to the Lime-street 'Ward. I take no interest in
political matters. I can't .call to mind that Mr. Gleave
hired the hall previous to these meetings. I can't posi-
tively •say. Yes, he has engaged the hall previously for
some time for municipal meetings.
By Mr. PAGET : I am a member of no election com-
mittee. I confine myself to the duties of my office.

By the CHAIR/lAN : On two occasions I received the
money from .Gleave's hands, and on the ether occasions I
sent receipts by the porter to Mr. Gleave's, and the
money was paid. I cannot swear to receiving it for the
6th and 25th from Mr. Gleave.
To Mr. BALL : The room was ordered for the Lime-
street Ward committee of election for Mackenzie and
Turner. On all occasions I consider that the hall was
taken for the same parties.
William Aliens= was here recalled, and on Mr. George
Henry Horsfall being introduced to the room, the witness
identified him as the person whom he understood to be
Mr. Charles Henry Horsf&ll.

Mr. SMITH : Did you not say that Ile was thin ?
(Laughter, in wh!ch Mr. Horsitill good-naturedly
joined.)

Mr. SMITH : Now, there are two statements the wit
ness made—that he was thin, and that be was like my
friend Mr. Rodwell. Now, he is neither the one nor the
other. (Laughter.)

The CHAIRMAN observed that the witness had stated
that Mr. Horsfall was very handsome.
The witness Allanson's examination-in-chief was then
resumed I went to do repairs at the ward-room. I saw
Mr. Wood there on the election morning, and various other
gentlemen. I was there the greater part of the day. The
house is in Scotland-road, at the corner of Great Mersey-
street. Was employed to fit it up as a committee-room.
There was a sort of a temporary counter fitted up there.
There was a sort of an opening at one end of it—a flat
piece on a hinge. There was an opening underneath at
the end as well. The counter was fixed ; that was part of
the work I had been employed to fit up. While I was in
the room he passed me some ribbons under the counter.
Standing on one side he passed them under the counter to
me on the other. I gave them away to different people ;
I may say to a dozen or two, Some were loose, and some
were in a paper. I think I did keep two or three of them
to myself. I only kept one. None of those ribbons were
folded or wrapt up. That I distinctly swear. None of
them were made up into a rosette or favor. I polled that
day, I think, between two or three. I returned to the

committee•room after polling at the Town-ball. I found
Mr. Roskell there, but I don't think Mr. Horsfall was.
I know a person named Charles Kaye. I saw him on the
Sunday before the election.
Mr. PAGET : Did he say anything about his vote

Objected to by Mr. M. SMITH, on the ground that
Kaye was not one of the parties named in the list.

Witness recalled : I asked Kayo for his vote, and I
asked a good many others to vote for Mackenzie and
Turner. They all seemed to be on that side. I went to
canvass, but I was not a regular man : I was only for the
day. The two days before I took no part in the election
at all. Very likely I did tell those parties (Horsfall and
the others), that I had been canvassing. They both were
present, Mr. Horsfall and Mr. Roskell, when I told them.
Mr. PAGET : What did you say to them about having
seen Kaye ?
Question objected to ; upon which

Mr. PAGET stated, that he proposed to show that,
under the direction of Roskell and Horsfall, the witness
bribed the voter Kaye—testimony which would not in-
volve the members, until the two parties, Horsfall and
Roskell, had been connected with the sitting members as
their recognised agents. He proposed simply to show
that the witness Allanson had been agent for the commis-
sion of bribery of the two gentlemen named, Messrs.
Roskell and Horsfall.
Witness recalled : After I saw Kaye I saw Rock°ll and
Horsfall. Neither of those gentlemen gave me any direc-
tion at that time.

Mr. PAGET—Did either of those gentlemen say any-
thing to you about Kaye at that time.
Question objected to by Mr. M. Smith, and witness
again withdrawn, Objection over-ruled.

Witness recalled: Kaye had voted, I saw him. After
the conversation with Horsfall and Roskell, I saw Kaye.
I think he had voted then, for we had a glass of ale
together. (Laughter.) I did not see him poll. I was at
the Liver Inn during: the day. Kaye was there with me
during the day. I was there in the afternoon of the elec-
tion day with him, between the hours of three and four.
The Liver Inn is about two minutes walk from the com-
mittee room. lam not aware that there was any com-
mittee-room at the Liver Inn. Besides the ss. 6d. I told
you of, I received £lOO out of the Liverpool and London
Assurance Society. This was at the election time. I
know Mr. Johnson, a solicitor.

Mr. PAGET : Nov, did you not from him receive a
pound after the time of the election ?
Witness : No, sir.

Mr. PA GICT : Did you receive that sum about the time
of the election ?
Witness : No, sir.

Mr. PAGET : Nor 10s., nor any other sum ?
Witness : Never.

Mr. PAGET : Did you ever say to any person that
" they had paid you - well for what you done for
them."

Witness : I swear that I never did.
Examination continued : I mean Mr. Johnson, the so-
licitor, of Castle-street, when I say Mr. Johnson. I
never did say to Mr. Johnson that I would do nothing
for the election, or in connexion with it. if I were not
paid for it first. I never said to any one that I had re-
ceived money wrapped up in ribbon.
By Mr. SMITH : The ribbons were merely passed to
me under the counter, and I distributed them, giving
them to any one who asked for them.
Mr. M. SMITH : What dreadful things these ribbons
must have been ?

By Mr. SMITH : In addition to the gentlemen whom I
mentioned as having seen at the committee.room, there
were were many others present who appeared to take an
interest in the election.

By the CHAIRMAN : Some of the ribbons given me
were wrapped up, and others were not. There appeared
to me to be no difference between them.
Mullington Walthew, examined by Mr. BODKIN, swore :
I live at No. 2, Talfourd-street, Liverpool, and I was
engaged at the last Liverpool election by the committee
for conducting the election of Messrs. Mackenzie and
Turner. I was engaged by Mr. Buckmaster. I was first
engaged in the month of April—to be generally useful. I
was to be paid ss. a day. I was not introduced to Mr.
Buckmaster by any person. I knew Mr. Peacock, but I
had not spoken to him on the subject. I saw Mr. Buck-
master at the Constitutional Association. I was first
employed in Everton, from which the requisition first
came. The committee room was at Halliday's, the Ever-
ton Coffee-house. 1 was sent there by Mr. Buckmaster, '
and that was the place of my business at first. I
had to go up to that ward to get requisitionists
to sign. I did not bring back my sheets to the room in
John-street. I gave my sheets to another person who
pursued the same kind of employment. I went back to
the rooms in John-street, where I saw Mr. Buckmaster,
and I informed him of what I had done in Everton. I was
then sent for to go into Scotland-ward, still with the re-
quisition. I was directed both by Mr. Peacock and Mr.
Buckmaster. I went to Mr. Blundell's, in Scotland-ward.
There were no gentlemen meeting there when I went ;
but in the course of three weeks I saw the gentlemen
there. They had a secretary, Mr. Clegg. I have heard
that he is in the employ of Mr. Horsfall, and I have
seen him in Mr. Horsf'sll's office. He is a clerk,
I believe. Besides him, there were several other
persons, all at the desk. He is Mr. Horsfall, of the
firm of Horsfall and Son. I was employed in Scotland
ward for about five or six weeks. I was there with the
requisition first, and afterwards with the canvassers. The
requisition did not take long—say about five or six days.
Mr. Clegg commenced to act as the Secretary of the com-
mittee. Mr. Thomas Dover was the chairman of the
ward, and Mr. Waterston was deputy chairman. Mr.
Burroughs was a member of the committee, and also Mr.
Bowers and Mr. Taylor. Mr. Horsfall was not on the
committee. Mr. Blundell was upon the committee ; he
kept the house. Mr. Richard Briscoe was one. There
were two persons named Sefton on the committee. I
remember Joseph Healing ; he was on the committee.
They met to receive the reports of the canvassers,
and those reports were entered in what we called ward
books. This continued for about a month ; Mr. Clegg,
at the conclusion of that time, said there was no further
need for my services there, and sent me to the central
committee. That took place about three weeks before
the election. During the time I was so employed I was
chiefly at Mr. Blundell's—at least part of the day. 1
went early in the morning, and looked in now and again.
I canvassed, and reported, as the other canvassers did, the
result of my work. While the committee held their
meetings of an evening Mr. Clegg wrote the names in the
ward book. During the time I was employed I was at
Blundell's every evening, but notallday. Duringthe month
I was sent from the committee to the central committee
once or twice. When we wanted more stationery I went to
the central committee-room to get it. Mr.Buckmaster told
me to get it. I never took a return of the canvas to the cen-
tral committee-room. Mr. Clegg was the person to do so,
but I never saw him do it. I made a return to him at an
office in John-street—not the central office. He did not
tell me what the returns were for. When I gave Mr.
Clegg the returns I thought he brought them to the
central committee. I did not hear Mr. Clegg receive any
instructions to take them there. The returns were made
out once a week. I was employed at the central com-
mittee for three weeks before the election. 1 canvassed
the out-voters for two or three days, by the directions of
Mr. Buckmaster. I was employed in the lower room, and
then in the upper room, for the rest of the time. My duty
was to copy any papers I got. The papers I copied had
nothing to do with the canvas. I sometimes delivered
notes summoning committees. There was a general
central committee. I assisted in summoning them. [Sum-
mons put into the hands of witness.] The summonses had
engraved heads. That is the same engraving as the one
at the head of this note ; and I filled up such notes. There
was a Finance Committee, and I assisted in filling up
many of the summonses. Ido not recollect the names of
the other committees. There was, I think, a Car Com-
mittee ; and I rather think there was a Music or Band
Committee. The Car, as well as the Finance Committee
met at the Central Committee-rooms. This was at the
period I was emoloyed down stairs. When I was subse-
quently removed up stairs it became my duty to make out
lists of .the voters. I can't say there was a general re-
cord of the canvass kept at the Central Committee-room.
I was in the habit of separating the voters into wards from
the general list. They were afterwards put on boards,
but I deli% know what was done with them. I saw none
of the boards, however, at the Ward Committees. I ne-
ver saw either of the sitting members at the Central
Committee-room whilst I was employed there. I went
there in the morning. at nine o'clock. I remained in the
:upper .room 'until seven o'clock. I did not sit in the com-
mittee-room while I was below stairs. Neither did I ever
see a doorkeeper. After this a note came, and I was sent
to Scotland Ward, to Mr. Pyecroft's, the landlord of the
Wheatsheaf Inn. Mr. Watson was there when I went.
Mr. Buckmaster sent me to Scotland Ward to attend to
the note. He gave me the note; but 1 must have de-
stroyed it ; and I have it not now. The note was to the
effect, that Mr. Buckmaster should send me up ; and, in
accordance with the request, he did so. A great many of
the members of the committee were the same as attended
at the public-house occupied by Blundell. The de-
puty-chairman was Mr. Watson. I remained at the
Wheatsheaf till the day of the election, and then I went
to Mr. Anthony's, who lives in Great Homer-street. I
went there before I went to the central rooms ; but I was
only employed for one night. I also went to Mr. Robert
Well's, at the corner of Bevington-hill. I was also at
Kelly's, of Chadwick-street, at the corner of Love-lane,
for one night. Mr. Watson, the deputy-chairman,
attended every one of. the meetings at that place of
assemblage, and the business of the election was carried
on there. There were no placards outside these houses
which I have named. Yes, there were placards with
" Mackenzie and Turner's committee room" on them,
outside of Blundell's, Pyecroft's, and the central com-
mittee rooms. I have known Mr. Watson to say he was
going down to the central committee rooms. I have seen
him leave the ward committee then. I made my own
account and expenses for this ward out, I drew Mr.
Blundell an account out once for the expense of the room,
at his direction. There was a charge also for refreshment
for the committee. I was the only paid servant there. I
made my account out on a Friday night to the end of the
week. Mr. Blundell's was made out in the same way. I
delivered my account to Mr. Clegg, and sometimes Mr.
Watson took it down to the central office to get it paid.
Mr. Watson paid me on one or two occasions, but Arr.
Clegg has also paid me. I did not see them take my account
to the central office. I remember the last occasion upon
which I received money for my services rendered in the
Scotland ward ; I was paid by Mr. Buckmaster : it was
1
only for a fourth of a week. I went to the centre
committee rooms to be paid. I can't recollect
whether any one was present. It was after the ;lolling,
I was told I must go to the central office by Mr. atson.
I know of no demand of Mr. Blundell s being paid there
after the election. I can't say that the finance committee
sat generally on a Saturday. I have seen Mr. Wntson at
the central rooms on a Saturdaytafter the finance commit-

tee had first sat. I never saw him take away money. /
saw him go into the room and come out. I never saw him
pay anything there. I remember that a person of the
name of Briscoe was engaged at the central committee
room. I saw a couple of men whom I knew to be letter-
carriers at Pyecroft's, but I did not see any letters with
them. They went into the front committee room. I was
on the otaira all the time they were in. I went into the

room in their company, but I did not remain for a minute.
I left them in the room with Mr. Clegg and a nephew of
my own. Mr. Clegg told me to take care of the door,
and not to admit any person. He told my nephew he
was to call over the names of the electors with the post-
men. I heard him do so, but I did not assist in examining
any letters before I left the place. Mr. Healing was in the
room at the time; he passed me and went in whilst I was
watching at the door. I tried to prevent him going in,
but he told me he was one of the committee, and
therefore insisted upon being admitted. They were
together in the room for about a quarter of an hour.
Another person was to take charge of the door, and I was
to go into another room. This was a Monday evening.
They were there in the morning. I examined a few of
the letters in the evening. I had not the letters in my
possession, T called over the names. The postman had
a bundle of letters, and he called the names of the parties
to whom they were addressed ; and during that time I
examined the list, told him whether they were voters or
not. Mr. Clegg was not present. There were only the
postman and myself present. Mr. Clegg directed me to
do this. The postman marked some of the letters with
pencil. I told the postman, when he mentioned a name,
that he was or was not a voter, according to the fact ; and,
therefore. if he was a voter, the letter was marked with the
pencil. I was to say which side the party was to vote
for: the postman marked according to what I said. I
could not see what the marks were; he put a cross on
those who were for Cardwell and Ewart. In Scotland
Ward there was a ward committee before the election,
but we sent very seldom. When the parliamentary con-
test was commenced there were persons on the committee
who were not on the municipal committee. Parties
are not the same for parliamentary as for municipal
elections ; the municipal elections are not looked upon
as political. I can't say whether the central committee
was the same, or whether the numbers were increased.
I saw, among others, Mr. Edmund Molyneux, Mr.
W. B. Jones, and Mr. Jonas Gleave, at the Central
Committee-rooms. I saw Jones there once or twice. I
cannot undertake to say who went there most frequently.
I have seen Mr. William Rowett more than once, and
Mr. L. Peel more than once. I have seen Mr. Thomas
Bold more than once. Mr. J. S. Leigh I saw once there.
Mr. N. D. Bold I saw once there ; Mr. Peacock more
than once, and also Mr. H. Bremner. Mr. Moss, the
banker—l saw him once there. Mr. Robert Woodward,
Mr. A. Henderson, Mr. E. G. Deane, Mr. G. H. Hors-
fall, Mr. J. A. Tobin, Mr. William Fisher, of Redcross-
street, Mr. Thomas Inman, Mr. P. B. Drinkwater, Mr.
Nicholson, Mr. Hatch, Mr. J. B. Cooper, Mr. Watson,
and Mr. Clegg, I have also seen there. I did not see Mr.
Wm. Lowe, Mr. Thos. Harrison, or Mr. Win. Nicholson
there. A Mr. Nicholson I did see there. I have seen
the persons named already go into the room while the
committee was sitting, and come out afterwards. I know
a Mr. Thos. Williams, secretary to the Vauxhall Ward.
He was in the ward as canvasser, and T don't know he
did not act as secretary. I can't say that Mr. Williams
is the collector to the Conservative Association, but he
has some situation there. 1 never saw Williams pay or
receive money. The Vauxhall Ward Committee met
in a public-house in Great Howard-street, kept by
Sylvester Matheson. I never saw a placard outside that
house. I never saw the committee of Vauxhall ward at
that house. I never received any money myself at Moss's
bank. I don't recollect that Mr. Buckmaster received
any. I never heard Mr. Bremner say anything to Mr.
Buckmaster about wanting money. I do not recollect
seeing Mackenzie or Turner at the central committee-
room : I have seen them in St. John's Market with
Jones Gleave. I did not see Mr. Peacock there.
Examined by Mr. RODWELL : The time I saw the can-
didates in the market-place there was a crowd after
them. Besides those I have named, as having been
present at the central committee-room, there were many
others. I was formerly collector for the Conservative
Association, and many of those gentlemen whom I named
were members of the Conservative Association, and their
room was given at election times to the party. These
gentlemen often did not stay more than two or five
minutes. Many were there who were not. members of
the Conservative Association. I know notices of com-
mittee meetings were given to me to be filled up. I should
say those summonses werefor the seeneral commitee. Those
gentlemen were the persons whom I sometimes saw drop
into these rooms. I never saw anything further than the
date at the top, and the circulars. As to the letter-carriers,
the names were Adler and James Graham. They came in
sometimes to get the number of the houses. I never gave
them the number of the houses. What I did with the
postman lasted for about two minutes. I saw him mark
about two. The number of names I called over might be
twelve. I believe Adler and Graham are here. Another
man who was in charge of another room was present, and
also my nephew. Mr. Healing, a pawnbroker, was like-
wise present. Whatever was done in the room, Clegg
was not there. Clegg just came into the room, and then
went out again. Only one of the postmen that I saw
marked the letters. Graham was the man who called
' over to me the direction of the letters. I went to Wat-
son, and got the employment from him—at least he sent
me to the Constitutional Association. I took the papers to
his private house. He has been since, I believe, a clerk
for Horsfall, and he was not there during the election.
If I said so, I stated what was wrong.
By Mr. BODKIN : I did not see the postmen come into
the house. I showed them into the room. I had seen
them there in the morning. Clegg said I was to go and
attend to those men—to call over the letters with them.
Two or three of them were employed.

By Mr. FRESHFIELD: When I filled up the notices I
did not know whether they were summonses for the gene-
ral or any other committee.

By the CHAIRMAN : I should say parties not members
of the committee-room would have been freely admitted
to the committee-room at any time.

William Walthew (examined by Mr. PAGET) deposed
that he was a nephew of the last witness. I was engaged
by the chairman of the Vauxhall Ward to assist my uncle
at the election. I was employed at Pyecroft's. but I was
employed at no other place. My business was confined
to the Wheat Sheaf. I was employed about four or five
days. I was there a few mornings previous to the elec-
tion. I recollect the postman coming into the room ; that
was on the day previous to the nomination—on the Mon-
day. It was between nine and eleven o'clock. and I was
in the committee-room at the time he came. One man
brought the letters in. When the postman came in, I
had to refer to the ward-book. Mr. Clegg desired me to
refer to it. He did not tell me for what purpose it wilt
to be done. The postman looked at the letters. I think
at that time there was no one present but the postman ,Mr.
Clegg, and myself. The postman produced the letters,
and called out the names, and a cross was marked on some
of them. We were to see in the ward-book whether the
name were " for," or " against," or " doubtful." Just
as I called out, he marked them. Those at which I said
" for" were not marked at all. Accordingly as I called
out "doubtful," or "for," or " against," he marked or
did not mark the letters. I recollected the same
afternoon the postman coming again. There was a
committee meeting ; the members were addressing the
voters between six and eight. Messrs. Mackenzie and
Turner were addressing them at Mr. Pyecroft's, in
another room. At that time there was not a meeting of
the committee. I recollect at that time the postman
coming with the afternoon delivery, he came to the com-
mittee-room on the left. Two men came with the let-
ters. Only myself and two postmen were present in
the room. When the postman came into the room i
the evening I was not aware that they were coming

were ushered in while I was alone, and the door was
locked by some person in the inside. The same tran-
spired again that had occurred in the morning, the letters
being marked in the same manner. Mr. Healing, one of
the committee, came in with two other parties whom I
did not know, and remained about five or ten minutes.
The postmen had drink—one of ale and one of spirits.
I ordered it, Clegg having directed me to call for some-
thing to drink. I might know some of the names on
those letters if they were mentioned to me—not other-
wise. I recollect the name of " William Stamp." lam
sure of it. I know Stamp personally. He is an ac-
quaintance of mine. This examination of the letters took
place on the evening previous to the nomination day. I
did not touch one of the letters. I could not tell whe-
ther they contained cards or not.

Cross-examined : We might call over thirty letters in
the morning, and perhaps a hundred in the evening. I
can't tell how many were marked : I don't recollect those
that were " for " were not marked ; those " against " or
" doubtful" were both marked. I did not recollect the
name of Stamp until it was suggested to me. I did not
see any of the addresses read out to me. The letters
were not confined to me in my ward, and I had to refer
to other than the mere ward lists. Stamp was against us:
I knew at the time this man was down on the printed list
to which I referred. Stamp was not on the ward list. I
knew Stamp was against us directly the name was called by
the postman. All the letters were taken away. I did not
know the calling over was to take place that afternoon ;
it took me by surprise. When they were ushered in, I
knew what to do. I had been told before, but did not
know at what moment they might make their appearance.
I did not know in the morning. My uncle was there, but I
don't know for how long. He was there half an hour, I
should think. I can't tell exactly, however. Ho was
writing there for a short time while the letters were being
called over. Two voters came in, and we left off reading
the letters. Whilst Healine- was there, we also left off
reading. lam now a book-keeper, and in the employ-
ment of Mr. M'Gregor.
By the CHAIRMAN : I should think seven out of nine
of the letters were marked.

By Mr. BALL: While Healing and the two others
were, in the letters were put upon a table.
The Committee broke up at a quarter to four, Mr.
Bodkin stating his intention to re-examine the witness.
The Committee meets this day, (Tuesday,) at eleven
o'clock.

-----
The following is the supplemental list of persons al-
leged to have been bribed, and by whom alleged to have
been bribed :

BY WHOM.
Jonas Gleave, Edward Smith,
John Buck Lloyd, Edward
Williams, Solomon W. May,
Wm. Musker, Thos. Riding,
Thos. Swettenham, Win. Law-
ton, William Smith, George
Sandford Russell, Jas. Ather—
ton, and John Henry Francis
Curchod.

The same
The same

The same

Willian:

Zinittb tates.

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