The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-01-05 00:00:00

. . .
Mr. Councillor tart LE only wished to-correct a statement of
Mr. Birch ; he was not going to jaStify the appointment, hut
there was a material difference between this appointment atoj
the one to which Mr. Birch had alluded, wade by the old corgi
poration.
The MAYOR wished to be in order. Would Mr. Earle move
that the resolutions be confirmed'!
Mr. Councillor Bieco understood that there was a mutton to
that effect, or he would not have Spoken.
The MAYOR begged pardon.
Mr. Councillor EA R LE. merely wished to correct Mr. Birch in
one pal Ocular, as to what had been done on the last appointment
of the old corporation- In that appointment, the choice was
made from two gentlemen of the same political principles, one
a very old and skilful man, and the other a very yiting one,
who had been his apprentice; but, notwithstanding, they chose
the young man, though of the sante political Opinions.
Mr. Councillor Biech.—l believe there were two or three
candidates of the same politics on this occasion, and I believe
the committee chose the youngest. (A laugh.)
Mr. Councillor EA R 1.E.-1 was only going to put the council
in possession of the difference. (Continued laughter.)
Mr. Councillor HENRY LAWRENCE said, if he understood
right, from Mr. Harvey's letter, for he was not paying parti-
cubit. attention at the time it was reading, not being aware. of
the importance of it, the ground-of his resignation was, that he
did not choose to submit his ovinion to that of any other person,
or consent to act under any other solicitor?
Mr. Alderman Le. (Those—That is the substance.
Mr. Councillor H. LAWRENCE • continued.—Because, so far
as. his knowledge went, he conkd not conceive that any respect-
able solicitor could so place himself.. If he were not fit to act
on his own opinion he ought not to have been appointed. He
had always' considered Mr. Harvey as a most respectable
gentleman in the profession, and Whose- talents did him very
great credit; and he therefore could not see how he could place
himself in the situation which the Dock Committee would place
him in, more especially as the veto was in the council. If he
was to. consult the Town-clerk, for whom he (Mr. Lawrence)
had the highest respect. he was still placing, hithself more under
the etoithed ; and he did not think that any independent. person
coula have acted otherwise than he had done; and he there-
fore regretted that the resignation had taken place. Concurring
in the sentiments of Mr. Birch—sentiments which did him the
highest credit, he felt called upon to speak his concurrence. in
them, and to express his high' opinion of the jus;ice which Mr.
Harvey had done to his ovitn character.'
The Ma volt said the only mistake was; that the solicitor of
the dock estate was never asked to suhaiit his opinion. He
was simply asked to confer with/ the Tiiwn-clerk, to be put in
possession of opinhats upon which he was to act. It .was a
course uniformly adopted in the House of Lords and in the
House of Commons, to the great convenience of the public;
but no man was made superior to another by that proceeding.
Therefore the whole 4q.npuent of Air. Harvey fell to the ground.
r, Councillor Josetql HouNny said, in the committee, on
foraier occasions, he had certainly. voted for Mr. Ntrirth, when a
candidate, as he considered him ai far more eligible man ; but
he had not considered that on that account he should in future
vote.tOr Mr. North if he'fontid an equally eligible man brought
fOrward at the same time.. At the time when Mr. Harvey was
elected, he had voted for him as an equally eligible inan with
Mr. North, He-was sorry that Mr. Birch should.have. made
the remarks that he had done, and thrown out that they had
voted on other considerations, on account of his political prin-
ciples, for Mr. Vandenhoff. (Hear.) He disavowed that en-
tirely; he believed the gentlemen themselves took all the
measures they possibly could to satisfy themselves-that he was
perfectly fitted for the situation. The result of their. inquiries
was, that he had gone through a regular education, that he was
a man of very rising talents, and they were all ctinvinced, from
their personal intercourse with him, that he was in every respect
eligible and proper to fill the situation of dock solicitor. Ile
wished to state this in order that it might nut he considered that
they rested with the imputation of merely appointing union for
his political principles. t" Hear" from the whigs, ansWered
ironically by the tories.) . If he hail not thought him as lit as
any other candidate. he would not have voted for him.
Mr. Councillor WA IMSLEY was merely going tis observe that
he thought before Mr. Birch had brought sue imputations
against the Duck committee, he should have given them some
grounds—he should at least have shown to the council that Mr.
Vandenhoff was not capable of filling the office, or he should
have shown that any one of the candidates was better qualified
than Mr. Vandenhoff for the office. He (Mr.- Birch) he thought
had failed, or not attempted to prove any of these things; and,
perhaps, before bringing this imputation against the council, it
would have been his duty out of doors to have ascertained this..
In reference, to what had fallen. from the member for Rodney-
street ward, Mr. Harvey was not requested. as had very pro-
perly been said, to see the Town-clerk at all ; but the Dizek so-
licitor found front the act of parliament relative to the docks,
that he hail not the power of making bye-laws relative to fires
close to the Dock quays, the council only having the power of
making those laws.. He believed that a sub-committee of the
council, on the bye-laws, did propose certain bye-laws for the
better government of the Dock quays to prevent fires there6n;
But though these laws were desirable to be held in abeyance for
a certain time, until ariangements could be made with the Dock
committee. for jointly carrying them iato effect, it was with
the view that the Town-clerk and Dock solicitor should consult;
or, if beneath the dignity and professional character of Mr.
Harvey, to consult with the Tit wn-clerk on such an important
consideration. to consult stone of the conned. The result had been
that the bye-laws which had at first been proposed, had been
toiallY altered; and, though the bye-laws brought before the
Dock-committee had been so altered, he was prepared to say,
there yen as they now stood, if brought before the council, the
council would pause on them; .and he 'did not know whether
they would not go further and put a veto on them. Counsel's
opinion had been ordered to be taken, whether these bye-laws
could be passed or not, and the result of that would show whe-
ther the weathers of that committee had acted a proper part er
not, as respected the professional capability of Mr. Vandenhoff
for the office of Dock solicitor; he, fur one, believed that he
was fully capable—that he was a young man of great talents,
and rising rapidly in his professisn; that he had served a re-
gular apprenticeship to his profession, with credit to himself, and
he believed he held the good opinion of a great portion of that
council, not only as a professional man, but as a private cha-
racter; anti his appointment was worthy of the Dock-trust, and
he firmly believed he would be an honour and a credit to it.
Mr. Alderman LEATH AM said, he regretted extremely on his
return from London, to find that Mr. Harvey had determined
to give in his resignation, lie *as not aware that he- was la-
beuring under such great dissatisfaction ; but it appeared that
his mind was made up urialterably.. lie (Mr. Harveyf had
called Op him, and told lima that. the committee were to meet,
that.Oo consideration whatever snout,' liiM in With-
draw his letter. It was what he regretted exeeedingly,'because,
after an experience of 12 months, Mr. Harvey had shown the
greatest talents, and that he possesSed great diligence and
assiduity; and he believed that he had shown the result of tto-
siderable experience in his profession. They were consequently
brought to the election of another solicitor, and five presented
themselves. Two of these withdrevit their pretwisiens on the
morning of the election, and three consequently remained, Mr.
North, Mr. Vandenhoff, and Mr. Robinson. No Pierson pro-
posed Mr.. Robinson, and consequently they went to the vote
for the other two. He wishetl:to speak as to his own vote; ter'
though he had refrained from looking at the newspapers, he Un-
derstood that he was reflected on for voting for Mr. North. It
had been stated that no person was so well qualified as Mr.
Vandenhoff. Mr. North having had considerable experience'.
—an experience of twenty years, and halving acted fur a large
Jody of merchants in protecting their powers, he had made him-
self very fully acquainted with the bearings of the Dock Acts;
and. from Mr. North also being the solicitor to the Harrington
Dock Company, which had given him a further insight into the
dock questions he therefore did think, independently of a pri-
vate friendship for Mr. North, that he was the fittest man for
the purpose. lie looked to no distant period to their being coin-
pelted to go into parliament; and he therefore reflected in him-
self in the choiCe of a solicitor, who would be the most fit and

prober person to accompany a deputation to London I'M- their
defence and advice there. ' From what he had learnt of Mr.
Vandenhoff, he was a very young man and one who had little

or no expereince in parliamentary practise and any person
must know that much 'experience was required in transactiog
that description of business.; he therefore gave his conscientious
vote for Mr. North, and if required would vote so again on the
ground that he had a greater knowledge of the Dock LaA.s and
of parliamentary business. But this subject of bye-lans WaS
not the whole ground of Mr. II arvey's discontent •he had had
long conversations with the Town-Clerk and had 'heel) led dis-
tinctly to understand that he was to submit:himself to the Town
Clerk (cries of "no," " no.'') He ( Mr. Leathum) believed that
that was his perfect understanding; and he was borne out in his
belief by the Town Clerk having said to hini (Mr. Leathom)
that he should investigate the powel3 of the council in the govern-
ment of the Dock gstate; that he should insist on (he sovreignty
of the council in the management of Dock afflits, and expressed
his own desire to be the mover and projector of things connected
with the estate. Ile (Mr. Leathom) therefore said, he was not
sufficiently conversant. with the DOck Laws to know how the
question hung and desired Mr. Harvey to see him. He (Mr
Leathom) therefdre from that circumstance aft Mr. Harvey's
declamation to him and from-the circumstanhes at he had re-
lated, imagined that Mr. Harvey's resignation had in a great
measure not only been the result of what h.-o 1 been stated by Mr
Wahnsley. but that he had felt that he must be, on all occasions
subservient to and dictated to by the opinion of the Town Clerk
for whom, he (Mr. Leathom) said' with great sincerity, he bad
a great respect both personally and for his legal ability. He
did think that Mr. Harvey was borne out in the tenor of his letter,
and if he (Mr. Leathom) had been the solicitor to the Dock
Estate he would have acted precisely as Mr. Harvey had done.
(Hear.) He was exceedingly sorry for what might be the re 7
snit if Mr. Vandenhoff was found not to possess Sufficient expe-
rience.

Mr. Alderman EviNs said they had heard a great deal about
Mr. Harvey; he entertained a great respect for him and all his,
connexions, but he did assure that council.that he (Mr. Harvey).
had 'met with approvals of his conduct anywhere but amongst
his connexions.. Mr. Harvey adluitted that there was a an-
premacy lying hid in the dock acts, which gave a supremacy to
the Town-clerk ; not only did the Town-clerk offer to waive all
that supremacy, but ultimately they (the committee). did nut
urge it, but tecommended a friendly and free conference with
the view to an arrangement, so that whether opposed or not,
the dock committee might not meet with a rebuff from that
council, which he hoped would never be given in the Way of
annulling the moceedings of the committee. They were con,'
tending rather for the independence of the dock corninittee and
ifs solicitor, than in endeavouring to put him in an unbecoming
position.as an independent man. He was not asked to do any-
thing of right, but the committee wished that these two profes-
sional men might never differ, both standing equally high with
the public, and not leave their agreement to chance. Now, so
far for Mr. Harvey; he must ascribe his conduct to a morbid
and mistaken sensibility, and there he left it. With regard to,
the other atMointinent, the question narrowed itself to the mere
capacity of the Man ; they were not aware that' that could be
impugned: He contended that that Was an improper subject
for the discussion of the council. There was a discretion in the
dock committee, and unless the council could show that they
had appointed a man who was not competent to the office, it
was out of the Jurisdiction of the council. He said it was a vio-
lation of, couitesy to those who were responsible to the dock
committee, to bring such charges as that. Now they had heard
nothing but vague declarations against Mr. Vandenhoff. He
had made it his business to confer with those who were qualified
to give an opinion—with a very eminent barrister—he meant
locally eminent—(a laugh)—who, knew all the professional men
in Liverpool, who had said that although Mr. Worthington was
a very clver.gentleman, they had named one clever man who
was every Way competent for. the offer., TgeY had all the evi-
dence on :their side, and nothing brought forward to justify that
discussion. It was very easy for gentlemen to lay hold of a fart
to preach moral sermons on; he could do that direCtli; he
could preach moral sermons no general principles. (Laughter.)
But there should be some ground for endeavouring to inflict a

stigma
,upon the gentleman-who had been fidfillingihetTu*st.
Ile would n more particularly to the matter; he would not
have named Mr. North on any account; he never would have
named any man who had made an attempt to keep the do,•ks
from the corporation..„ He was deputed as one of thirteen to
preserve, the corporate influence in the docks.. It was their
duty to have se,t their faces against Mr. North; and if they had
not acted as they had dune they would have betrayed their trust.

tie knew no:t, what all this meant about introducing party work
into the .Connell;p he would recommend gentlemen nut to- try
that subject, forif it was opened on one side it would be on the
other, and the merits of parties would be discussed, and the.
(ranger of appointing men into the head ?laces' of the country-