The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-10-09 00:00:00

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(Hear.) They see her crowding the benches of St. Stephen's
(Hear.) They see her seated at the council table of our mo-
arch. (Hear.) And if such things as these are not sufficient
to rouse their latent energies, I know not what is. (Hear.)
Yes, sir, they are roused ; and from being cool, uninterested
spectators of the operations of this society, they are becoming
its most ardent and warmest supporters. They see that Po-
pery is making rapid strides. They see that although she
can but at present prosecute,—(hear,)—yet they see also that
if she gets but the power the unchanged and unchangeable
principles of Popery will not only prosecute, but per-
secute teo. (Loud cheers.) But, sir, there surely is
some ground for the rampant state of Popery ; and what is
it ? I think it is not too much to charge a large proportion
of it upon our own unfaithfulness—on our unfaithfulnss to
our God, our unfaithfulness to our country, our unfaithfulness
to ourselves, our unfaithfulness to those Protestant princi-
ples which have been in the past ages of our country, and
which are still, the barometer of England's weal or England's
WO. (Cheers.) If, then, we acknowledge such to be the
fact, what is our duty as Christian men? What but to re-
trace our steps—to retrace every false step—as far as we can ?
(Cheers.) If we have hitherto made grants to Popish
colleges, let us refuse to grant them any more. (Cheers.) If
we have made grants to anti-scriptural systems of education,
let us refuse to grant them any more. (Cheers.) If we have
consented to Popish legislation, which has been the curse of
this country, then let us retrace our steps, and call for the en-
tire and unqualified repeal of what is commonly called
the emancipation act. (Vehement and long-continued
applause.) But after what I have stated, it would ill
become me to go into further details. I know the
meeting is anxious to hear the gentlemen to whom I have
alluded. I will, therefore, conclude with only expressing
this :earnest, this ardent hope, that while our clergy
are labouring with ministerial faithfulness to oppose the spi-
ritual despotism of the Church of Rome, the laity will not be
backward to stand in the breach, and oppose her political
aggrandisement. (Loud cheers.)
DAVID HODGSON, Esq., seconded the resolution, which,
he observed, considering the numerous and able speakers who
were to follow him, he would do without remark.
The Rev. R. J. ArGHEE then came forward and addressed
the meeting nearly as follows :—Mr. Chairman,—Before I
enter upon the subject of that resolution which I shall have
the honour to move this day, I beg to advert to one or two
facts which I trust will not be considered irrelevant to this
anniversary of the Liverpool Protestant Association, but of
importance to all Protestant Associations, and to the Pro-
testant cause in this empire. Upon the 29th of this month
it will be five years since I had the honour of addressing my
Protestant fellow subjects in this Amphitheatre. The Pro-
testants of England had felt most deeply that the promised
blessings that were expected to flow from the concession of
Political power to the papacy had all vanished from the view
of England. The fears of most had been realized, the hopes
of many had been disappointed. But when in the year 1835
it pleaied God to bring to light by his providence the secret
standards and principles of the papal hierarchy, and to prove
to demonstration by facts, that all the principles which had
ever been charged against the Church of Rome were held by
her archbishops, bishops, and priests. It will be recollected
that the Protestants in many places, and in Liverpool more
especially, felt themselves called upon to associate together
to restrain the tyranny and the persecution of the Church of
Rome. Upon that occasion this little trunk contained all
the documents that were within the reach of the Protestant
Church to prove the charges that had been brought against
the Church of Rome. It contained alone the directories of
the Roman Catholic priests, by which it was demonstrated
that Dens' Theology was the standard of their instruction.
Since that time it has pleased Providence to bring to light, at
successive stages, more and more of the iniquities of the
Church of Rome, and more and more documents by which
those iniquities have been demonstrated. (Hear.) After
your association had been formed, the bibles that had been
circulated secretly among the poor Roman Catholics of Ire-
land, as the infallible standard of their church under the
authority of their bishops, were brought to light. Then the
eighth volume of Dens Theology, which had not been ex-
amined before, was found to contain not merely the princi-
ples of that theology but the laws of the Church of Rome set
tiP under episcopal sanction, and thereby put into force and
operation in the country, by which all the principles of Dens
acquired the character of law, and all the laws that these
men, the Roman Catholic bishops, had denied upon their
oaths before the committees of parliament, were proved to
be set up under the sanction of the very men who denied
them. (Hear.) After this, in the year 1837, the secret sta-
tutes of the province of Leinster, by Dr. Murray and his
co-provincial bishops, were brought to light, which, in con-
nection with their directories, established this tremendous
fact—not only that, after his denial, Dens' Theology had
been set up as the standard for the priests, but that that
Theology had been set up as the standard in which the Ro-
man Catholic priests were to be drilled by their bishops for
the purpose of diffusing those principles among the people,
and directing the consciences of the unfortunate Roman Ca-
tholics of Ireland. (Cheers.) Still these facts and these
documents were scoffed at because they were only in the
Possession of an individual ; but I am thankful, through
God's mercy, to be enabled to say this day, that now dupli-
cates, or rather triplicates, of every essential document have
been collected. This bookcase (pointing to one on the plat-
form) has been brought here by me for the purpose of shew-
ing it to this meeting this day, and of calling your attention
to it, and especially the attention of my rev. brethren. Every
essential document that ever has been brought forward
against the Roman Catholic bishops and priests has been
lodged, in bookcases exactly the same as this, one in the
Bodleian Library at Oxford, and the other in the University
Library at Cambridge. (Cheers.) All the statements that
have been made unon the subject of Popery—all the reports
of all the meetings held from the year 1835 till the year 1837
—have been published by my rev. brother Dr. O'Sullivan
and myself (cheers) in these two volumes (exhibiting them) ;
these are laid with the books, and with the documents to
which they refer, in the bookcases at Oxford and at Cam-
bridge. (Hear.) All the statements which we have made,
and which have been charged upon us as falsehoods and
calumnies against the Church of Rome, are now lodged be-
side
her own authentic documents, not in our possession, but
within the reach of all the learning of England. Therefore,
Y "7, brethren, you may stand up with confidence, and
noese,aoirni. tehesfe documents.' Do o you. not refer to the evidence
Your universities
your poor brethren from Ireland ; but go ye to
rsities, and call upon the learning of Oxford and
single CambridgeStatemtoerfirm if necessary, or refute if possible, one
of Popery. that has been made by us upon the subject
(Cheers.) I shall merely state that there is not
any important fact, or at least very few, in these documents
which has not been embodied in our public statements, or in
books which have been published and are within the reach
of any person who chooses to obtain them. Here is a
syllabus of these documents, numbered, and printed so
that every person may have it. I have ordered some of
them to be sent to Liverpool, and I have now the
honour to present a copy to our venerable chairman.
(Hear.) This, then, I trust, will not be considered an
irrelevant statement at this anniversary of the Liverpool
Protestant Association. I hope you will rather all feel that
now you have solid facts, solid grounds, solid documentary
proofs to proceed on, and that they will serve to stimulate
you, under the blessing of God, to active energetic exertion
in this cause in which you are engaged. (Hear.) I shall
now proceed to read the resolution which I have the honour
to move this day—
" That it is demonstrated to this meeting that the Roman
Catholic bishops in Ireland, since the concession of political
power in the year 1829, have, in direct violation of the most
solemn religious and moral obligations, set up those very
laws which they had renounced on oath before both the com-
mittees of Lords and Commons, before the commissioners of
education in Ireland, and by their own address and oath vo-
luntarily pledged to their priests and laity. That by these
laws they have set up the temporal authority of the Pope
within these realms, to coerce the Roman catholic laity to
violate their allegiance to their lawful sovereign, to stimulate
them to invade and subvert the Protestant government and
the civil and religious rights and privileges of their Protestant
fellow-subjects.''
This is the first part of the resolution ; the second is—
" That it therefore appears to this meeting that it is the
bounden duty of the Protestants of this empire to unite to-
gether firmly, to deliver themselves and their Roman Ca-
tholic fellow-subjects from this antichristian yoke."
But I will pause at this part of the resolution ; I will defer
the second part of it till I come to the documents by which
it will be necessary to substantiate it. The first part of the
resolution opens a most extensive field ; but I shall confine
myself to a very narrow limit. The atrocious principles of
the papacy, as recorded in the history of this nation, the
seditions, the plots, the massacres, the martyrdoms that
stained the pages of English history, had excited intense ap-
prehensions in the minds of the Protestants of this empire,
in the prospect of conceding political power to the Roman
Catholics. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, committees of both
houses of parliament were appointed ; investigations and in-
quiries were made into certain principles which were alleged
to be held by the Church of Rome. Previous to this Mr.
Pitt, in the honest simplicity of an upright English protes-
tant, sent over to the foreign universities, to demand from
them why then they held such and such principles. The re-
sult was such as might have been expected. The Roman
Catholic universities were astonished that a man of Mr.
Pitt's enlightened mind could possibly impute such senti-
ments as these to the Roman Catholics ; and the university
that was most loud in her expressions of astonishment and
wonder at Mr. Pitt, was the University of Louvaine, at which
university, at that very time, Dens' Theology was the stan-
dard work, and at which Dens himself had been a professor,
and at which he had written that Theology. (Hear, hear.)
The bishops of the Church of Rome were examined before
the committees of parliament. They were examined upon
these subjects :—Whether the Roman Catholic church, in
the event of the concession of political power, was inclined
to invade the property of the Church of England, the lay and
ecclesiastical property in Ireland, and to recover from Irish
landlords the forfeited estates. Secondly, they were ex-
amined as to the dispensing power of the pope, whether the
pope or the bishops had a right to dispense with oaths or
crimes. They were next examined as to the temporal power
of the pope, whether the pope exercised directly or indi-
rectly, or could he exercise temporal power within these
realms. They were examined as to the existence of a
certain bull, to the operation of a certain bull, whether
it was in force, called Blain ccence domini—a bull of
universal excommunication against all protestants, es-
pecially all Protestant authorities, setting up papal autho-
rity in whatever state it is published. They were examined
also as to a certain canon, the third of the Fourth Lateran
Council—a canon which had been enacted at that council in
the year 1215, for the purpose of exterminating the Albigenses
—a canon whose history was written at that time upon the
fields of Europe in characters of blood—a canon of treachery
and sedition, by which the pope has power to grant a dispen-
sation to all subjects from their allegiance to a protestant
sovereign whenever it pleased him. They were examined, I
say, as to the existence of these principles and laws and canons
of their church. Now to detail the evidence upon these sub-
jects, it is not my intention to intrude upon this meeting.
But there are two documents to which I shall refer. I shall
merely mention that they denied every single principle and
every single law—they denied them upon their oaths in the
most emphatic manner, so that it was utterly impossible that
a protestant community or a protestant government could
bring at the time any charge against them. (Cheers.) They
must either have said, " these men are not to be believed
upon their oaths—we cannot believe one syllable they utter,"
or they must have admitted that their oaths were true, that
they did not hold these principles, and that they had not put
these laws into force. But not content with their answers to
the questions of the committees of parliament, these Roman
Catholic bishops wrote an address to their own clergy and
their own laity, which they published in the most solemn
manner and with the most solemn professions, renouncing to
the priests, and renouncing to the people, upon their oaths,
the very doctrines they had renounced before the committees
of parliament. I will read one or two of their answers,
which they gave upon oath. They declare upon oath :
" They detest, as unchristian and impious, the belief that
it is lawful to murder or destroy any person or persons what-
ever, for, or under the pretence of their being heretics."
They declare upon oath that :
" They do not believe that the Pope of Rome, or any
other foreign prince, prelate, state, or potentate, bath or
ought to have any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power,
Superiority or pre-eminence, directly orindirectly, within this
realm."

They here renounce upon oath the persecuting doctrines of
Popery and the temporal power of the pope. Again,
" They further solemnly, in the presence of God, profess,
testify and declare, that they make this declaration and every
Part thereof in the plain and ordinary sense of the words of
their oath, without any evasion, equivocation, or mental re-
servation whatever, and without any dispensation already
granted by the pope, or any authority of the see of Rome, or
any person whatever, and without thinking that they are or
can be acquitted before God or man, or absolved of this de-
claration, ur any part thereof, although the pope, or any per-

son or authority whatsoever, shall dispense with, or
the same, or declare that it was null and void."
In what language was it possible for men to renounce the
dispensing power of the pope more strong than this? Then
to the property of the church :
" They also disclaim, disavow, and solemnly abjure any
intention to subvert the present Church establishment, for
the purpose of substituting a Catholic establishment in its
stead. And further, they swear that they will not exercise
any privilege to which they are or may be entitled, to disturb
and weaken the Protestant religion and Protestant govern-
ment in Ireland."

Again :
" They declare that they will defend to the utmost of their
power the settlement and arrangement of property in this
country, as established by the laws now in being."
These were the declarations and oath, mark, given by the
Roman catholic hierarchy, not to the protestants, but in the
most solemn manner given to their own priests and their
own people who were under their episcopal jurisdiction. We
shall now put this by fora moment and look to another decla-
ration. This was in the year 1826 before they obtained political
power. Here, in the year after they obtained political power,
in the year 1830, is an address of the Roman catholic arch-
bishops and bishops to the clergy and people of the catholic
church in Ireland. Let me entreat your attention to this.
I know and feel continually how tiresome it is to read docu-
ments such as these to meetings like the present. I can only
promise that you shall he relieved from the trouble of listen-
ing, and amply repaid by my dear and rev. brother who is to
follow me, therefore I entreat you to have the kindness to
lend me your attention whilst I lay before you these docu-
ments, however tedious they may be in themselves :
" Labour, therefore, in all things to promote the end which
viz. the pacification and prosperity of Ireland. Let religious
the legislature contemplated in passing this bill for your relief,
discord cease; let party feuds and civil dissensions be no more
heard of ; let rash, and unjust, and illegal oaths be not even
named amongst you ; and if sowers of discord or sedition
should attempt to trouble your repose, seek for a safeguard
against them in the protection afforded by the law. Be sober,
and watch, so that no one may have evil to say of you ; give
way to anger rather than contend with an adversary, so that
nothing on your part may be wanting to promote peace and
good will among all classes of the Irish people. To our ve-
nerable brethren, the clergy of whatsoever degree, we propose
with reference to what here follows, our own example : they
will copy it into their lives, and adhere to it as a rule of con-
duct. We united our efforts with those of the laity in seeking
to attain their just rights, and to attain them without a corn-
promise of the freedom of our church. Success attended our
united efforts, because reason, and justice, and religion, and
the voice of mankind were upon our side."
" We discharged a duty imposed upon us by a state of
times which has passed, but a duty which we have gladly
relinquished, in the fervent hope, that by us or our succes-

sors it may riot be .resumed. These are the sentiments which
the spirit of our calling inspires ; they are the sentitnents
which never ceased to animate us, and which our clergy,
always obedient to our voice, will cherish all with us, as the
apostle commands—' all may say the same thing, and there
may be no divisions amongst us.' "
This is signed by all the Roman Catholic archbishops and
bishops of Ireland; Dr. Curtis, the then Roman Catholic
primate, being at the head of one column, and Dr. Murray,
the present Roman Catholic Archbishop of Dublin, at the
head of another. There is nothing in that address which
every one will not approve of, and say it was an address
which ought to have proceeded from those bishops under
such circumstances. Now the question is, was this oath
given by them before emancipation sincere, and was this
address to their clergy and people the year after emancipa-
tion sincere ? (Hear, hear.) What are the facts ? This
was in the year 1830. In the year 1831, four of those
bishops—but no, here I must stop. Whilst they were giv-
ing their evidence, and for years before it, the secret stan-
dard in which the whole Roman Catholic hierarchy of Ire-
land were drilling their priests—the secret standard taught
in every one of their colleges, was this book called Dens'
Theology. The year after they gave these oaths they made
this address, that is in the year 1831. Four of these bishops,
Dr. Murray and two or three of his co-provincial bishops,
entered into their synod. The first persons they placed
upon the list of the excommunicated were heretics and apos-
tates. There is the book. They wanted, in their directo-
ries, Dens' Theology to be the conference book for their
dioceses, and they added to that book this book of laws, in
which every single law upon which they had been examined
before the committees of parliament in 1826 was set up, and
added to that theology, as the standard by which the priests
were to guide the consciences of the Roman Catholics of
Ireland. In so doing—and, observe this, for it is an impor-
tant point, and you will feel its importance in the last part
of the resolution which I have to submit—when the Roman
Catholic bishops authorise or sanction the publication of a
papal law, that law is thereby put in force. This was the
principle upon which they had denied throughout the exist-
ence of these laws in Ireland. When they were examined
upon the Bulla Cceine Domini, Dr. Doyle swore it was
not received in Ireland, and never would be. (Hear, hear.)
He (Dr. Doyle) said it would leave nothing at rest in
any country where it was received. Dr. M'Hale swore
that it was not received in Ireland, and that its collision with
the constituted authorities of the country rendered it impos-
sible it should ever be received in Ireland. This was the
evidence of these two prelates ; we shall speak of it just now.
Dr. M`Hale swore these bulls were never in force, unless
they were received and published. Dr. Doyle swore the
same thing. Mr. Slevin, the Professor of Canon Law, in
the College of Maynooth, was examined upon a certain bull,
the bull of Pope Penitent the 14th, for the confiscation of
the property forfeited and taken possession of by the heretics.
He swore that that bull was not in force in Ireland, because
it was not published in Ireland, but that, when the bulls
were received and published by the bishops, they were in
force in that country. Now I will read you Dr. Murray's
evidence before the House of Commons upon this subject.
I-le is asked this question.
" It has been stated in evidence before the committee,
that Dr. Troy, in the year 1793, published a declaration or
letter, in which he says, that Catholics are obliged to sub-
mit to the decisions and the decrees of the Pope on points of
faith or morals, which are expressly or tacitly assented to, or
not dissented from, by the majority of bishops representing
and governing the church dispersed : what is to be under-
stood from this declaration ?" Here is Dr. Murray's answer
—" that is the doctrine of every Catholic. The Pope, as the
head of the church, has a right to address a doctrinal decree
to the whole church. By this very act, he summons the
pastors of the church to say whether or not that is conform-
able to the Catholic faith ; and whether they distinctly ex-
press their assent to it, or tacitly signify it by not dissenting
from it ; it then becomes a declaration that such is the belief
of the church at large, and as the church, whether dispersed
at large, or assembled in its general councils, is infallible, its
decisions are a rule of faith. to which every Catholic is
bound to submit."

Then you have the evidence of Dr. Murray, that where-
soever a decree is received, or allowed as received, and set
by the Roman Catholic bishops, and not reclaimed against
by the majority of the bishops, that there that law is in force,
and of infallible obligation upon the conscience of every
Roman Catholic. What was the fact ? In the year 1831,
after they had issued this address to the priests and the
people, they set up, by publication in this volume, the 'very
law for the restitution of all forfeited property, which pre-
viously they had renounced on their oaths, which bull their,
professor of canon laws declared was received or in force in
Ireland, because it had not been published by the bishops,
which would be in force wherever it was received. They
published that bull for the restitution of all the for-
feited estates in Ireland. In that bull is stated that no
agreement—no acts of settlement, made between an here-
tical King and Roman Catholic, is allowed by the Pope of
Rome. They had before denied, you see, the dispensing
power of the Pope ; they now published a law granting
universal dispensation to every crime that could be com-
mitted by man. Let me read you a section of it.
" We grant, therefore, to our major pcenitentiarius, for the
time being, that he can and may be able to absolve and com-
mand to be absolved, all and each of every quality, dignity,
and degree ; the ecclesiastical seculars and regulars of every
order, congregation, society, and institute ; also all lay per-
sons of both sexes, as well present as absent, from all and
every sort of faults, crimes, and excesses, however weighty
and atrocious, as well public as private, whensoever and
howsoever committed and perpetrated."
This is a section from the law which they published in the
year 1831. They denied the temporal power of the Pope.
They declared, upon their oath, that he never had, or ought
to have, any temporal power, directly or indirectly in these
realms. What did they then do ? In the year 1831 they set
up a decree, they set up a law, declaring that the whole
Roman Catholic population should be subjected to the power
of the Pope, and that, if any of them dared to disobey the
orders of the Pope of Rome, they should be subjected to ex-
communication reserved to the Pope, the ecclesiastics should
be degraded from orders and revenues. The notaries should
be dismissed and declared infamous. Thereby bringing the
whole ecclesiastical power of the Church of Rome to bear
upon the temporal authority of the Pope. Let me entreat
you to attend to this. You see the unfortunate position in
which the poor Roman Catholics of Ireland are placed. I
agree most cordially with my dear and Rev. brother in the
chair, from the bottom of my heart, in all that he has said
upon this subject. The more I see of the fruits of the papacy,
so far from kindling hostility in my mind against my Roman
Catholic fellow-countrymen, I call my God to witness that
only the more does it fill my heart with deep regret and
sorrow on their account, and I think there is no blessing to
be expected from Protestant Associations, or Protestant
liberality, in this or any other part of the empire, unless they
are combined with honest, faithful, Christian efforts to
deliver our Roman Catholic countrymen from the accursed
yoke of popery. Now, listen to this law, which these people
have set up for coercing the Roman Catholic laity of Ire-
land. In the bull De Pastoralibus it is said :
" Laymen hindering the execution of the mandates, cita-
tions, and other provisions of the Court of Rome, are smit-
ten with excommunication, reserved to the Roman Pontiff,
as are they also who afford aid, counsel, or favour to persons
of this sort who binder it. But regulars and ecclesiastics
incur ipso facto suspension, as well from the exercise of their
orders as their offices, both which censures are reserved to
the Roman Pontiff." _

Now, you will not understand the meaning of this perhaps.
They hold in their church a system of what they call " re-
served cases." That is this. There are certain cases, as
Dr. Murray states in his Provincial Statutes, of wei▪
ghty and
atrocious crimes, which no priest is permitted to pardon, but
sometimes the bishop and s metimes the Pope. If the case
is " reserved" to the bishop, the poor Roman Catholic, who
has been guilty of the offence, goes in vain to the priest for
pardon. The priest says to him, " No ; I cannot forgive
you; you must go to the bishop." The poor creature, thus
driven from the face of his priest, is obliged to come, with
the weight of his crimes upon his head, to the bishop, pray-
ing that he will have mercy upon him. Oh ! remember that
the Roman Catholic, instead of having a glorious Bible thrown
open to him, and the glorious free salvation of his Lord and
Saviour proclaimed to him, thinks he must go, train•
ed as he
is in this horrid superstition, to the foot of his fellow worm,
and there receive the pardon of his sins. (Hear, hear.) And
remember, that in proportion to the poor man's belief in this
horrid, antichristian system, in proportion to sinceritythe
of his devotion to his religion, in that proportion is he
under the fangs of his priest or his bishop ; for when his
case is " reserved" to the bishop, he is obliged to go to
the bishop for pardon. (Cheers.) But this bull goes fur-
ther. i
He cannot get pardon from the bishop ; his case is
" reserved" to the pope. And I remember that these poor
men think if they die without priestly absolution they die in
their sins and go to perdition, and therefore the terrors of
hell are upon their conscience when they cannot obtain the
pardon of their sins. (Hear, hear.) By this infamous bull
those sins are " reserved ;" if a man dares to refuse to obey
the mandates of the pope of Rome in Ireland and in Eng-
land too--(hear, hear-for it is all a province of the pope his
sin is " reserved."gland is the pope's own dioeese, do
not forget that. (Hear and cheers.) He calls it so. He
appoints here his vicars apostolic whom he may remove at
pleasure. They are his vicars to execute his commands ; but
those unfortunate men who dare to resist the commands of
the pope, or the laws, mandates and citations of the court of
Rome, they can get no pardon of their sins unless they go to
Rome. (Cheers.) Just conceive this. We may smile at
these things ; but just conceive the terror that is brought to the
heart and conscience of a poor Roman Catholic by such a law
as this. What are all your sanctions of British law for the
feelings and conscience of man, compared to this infamous
decretal, which the Roman Catholic bishops, in spite of their
oaths have set up to govern the Roman Catholics of Ireland.
(Cheers.) They set up the Bulla Caw Domini and the
third canon of the Fourth Lateran Council to which I now
call your attention. They set up laws in Ireland, the very
existence of which had not been dreamt of by the committees
of parliament, and of which you did not dream. They set
up in Ireland the laws that regulate the inquisition,
they set up laws for putting men to torture ; they have
established these laws, and these laws at this moment
are in Rave under ePigeopal sanction. (Dear, hear and

cheers.) There is a very important book. lam not sure
whether I may not have read this book or this extract before
here, but if I have it is worthy to be read again. There was
a Roman Catholic priest, Priest Morrissey, who was perse-
cuted because he did not choose to submit to the mandates
of the Church of Rome. He says—" Let government grant
the Catholic claims, and they will unsheath the inquisitorial
sword, and unveil the rack and torture." This man, in the
years 1821 and 1822, declared this. He unfolded the in-
quisitorial system of the Church of Rome in Ireland. Mark,
this is a warning from one who lived and died in the Church
of Rome—and he, who knew the system, declared that if the
Catholic claims were granted, the inquisitorial sword would
be unsheathed, and the rack and torture unveiled.;' (Hear.)
They did unveil the rack and torture in the year after they
revived Catholic emancipation, and they set up the laws of
the Inquisition in Ireland. (Hear.( But he says more—
" Now, as the inquisitorial laws are general and unqualified,
so must the Roman Catholic emancipation be general and
unqualified in the end, viz., the Pope must have the nomi-
nation and appointment of Roman Catholic monarchs to
these realms. Ireland must be tributary to him again—the
bishops and clergy must be reinstated in their glebes and
church livings ; the forfeited estates must be restored to
the right owners, and the established church must be Roman
Catholic ! All the heretics in the land must be exterminated,
and their properties confiscated, and the nation must be
purged from heresy ; then, and only then, will Roman Ca-
tholics consider themselves fully and unconditionally eman-
cipated. This is what is understood by an unqualified Ca-
tholic emancipation."
There is the testimony of a Catholic priest in 1822 ; and here
are the laws set up by these men the year but one after-
wards, and received, for carrying into effect every single
crime which he had predicted in that book. (Cheers.) Now
what is the present position of the church of Rome with re-
gard to these laws. Upon the 26th of May last there was a
meeting of the Roman Catholic Institute held in London.
Mr. O'Connell read on that occasion a letter from Dr. Mur-
ray, as follows :

" Dublin, May 22, 1840.
" Dear Sir,—l have been just now favoured with your let-
ter of the 20th instant, in which you inform me that the
bigots of Exeter-hall have extensively disseminated a hand-
bill headed ' Awful Perjury of the Popish Bishops of Ire-
land,' that the Irish prelates are therein accused of establish-
ing in Ireland the Bulla Ccenve Domini, after publicly de-
claring to the empire, that the said bull was never set up nor
authorized in Ireland, nor would it ever be published there ;
and you beg of me to put you in possession of the true facts of
the case. Not to answer to all this is vain, as far as regards
the accusation,—there are no true facts whatever in the case.
The whole is an impudent and unprincipled fabrication. No
such bill has been published, or authorized by the bishops of
Ireland, nor by any one of them. To give an appearance of
plausibility to this atrocious libel, and impose on the credu-
lity of those who had not the means of ascertaining its false-
hood, the eighth volume of the Theology of Dens is pointed
out as containing this obnoxious bull, and the third canon of
the 4th council of Lateran. In both cases the assertion is
utterly false.
" As a further proof of the unscrupulous disregard of truth
with which the story was concocted, one of the four Leinster
bishops (Dr. Healy) who is accused by name of having trai-
torously employed this vehicle in 1832, to set up these docu-
ments as the canon law of Ireland, was not a bishop until six
years later than that period. Is it not a pity that any portion
of the thinking people of England would allow themselves to
be made the dupes of such convicted impostors ? It is surely
time that those who set themselves down to fabricate 'inge-
nious devices,' which are calculated to tear asunder the bonds
of Christian charity, should be scouted out of the society of
every lover of peace, of order, and of truth.—l have the
honour to remain, dear sir, very faithfully yours,
" DANIEL MURRAY .°
Now in the year 1836, these bulls were brought out under
very peculiar circumstances at Exeter Hall in London. I
should not presume to allude to any thing connected with
myself unless it was important to the developement of truth,
nor, indeed, under those circumstances, if I had not been
alluded to in the report of the committee. But a fear days
before I had brought out, under the misrepresentation of a
friend, wholly unintentional on his part, but still enough to
deceive me, a fictitious bull, which I quoted, believing it to
be a translation of a genuine document. The first moment
that I ascertained the fact, I instantly stated what was the
case, that the bull was fictitious ; but from that moment to
the present I have been taunted with the appellation of
" Forgery M`Ghee." My friends in the Albion and Mer-
cury, and several other papers in Liverpool, have honoured
me with that appellation, I beg leave to state, if the whole
world were to condemn a Christian man of one apparent
crime, however great, it is his privilege, when he can lay his
hands upon his conscience, and look up to his God, and ap-
peal to Him that he was not guilty of that offence—it is his
privilege, if the world opened its mouth against him, to stand
and smile unconcerned at its reproach. (Cheers.) But
there was not a man in London, there was not an individual
member of the class, there was not a Roman catholic in Lon-
don who knew the facts, that did not know, if I could be
guilty of such baseness as intentionally to have produced a
forged document, I could not have been such an utter
fool as to produce it in such a place as that—to bring for-
ward a forged document in the face of between four
and five thousand people, which could not have escaped
detection one hour. The only thing I should have been
asked on that occasion should have been, " Sir, you bring
forward this as a translation of a bull ; where is the origi-
nal ?" It was utterly impossible that I could have been
guilty of such a thing. I should have been, not a knave
only, but an egregious idiot. Therefore, the very facts
prove it was wholly impossible I could have produced the
bull, knowing it was not forged, for it was not intended to be
forged. It was not intended by the author to pass for a genu-
ine bull; and that Dr. Murray knows, and so do all Roman
Catholics. I need not recur to the fact how the whole press
of London and of England teemed with wrath and vitupera-
tion upon me as having been guilty of forgery. I beg to tell
Roman Catholic writers on th subject, that if a Protestant
man is conceived by the Protestant public to be guilty of
forgery, or to be guilty of any dishonesty, he dare not stand
upon a public platform, and look a Protestant audience in
the face. (Cheers.) There is a guilty superstition which
can cherish perjury, and cherish crimes, and they can permit
them, and not lose their character amongst those who ought
to be ashamed of them. (Hear, hear.) It is not in the Pro-
testant Church such acts can be perpetrated. (Cheers.)
Therefore, conscious of my integrity, through the mercy of
God I was enabled not to bow before the storm. I knew
that if I yielded or retreated a single inch, that all the
evidence I could ever produce again, with respect to
papal bulls, would be comparatively worthless—that I
must stand my ground, and bring forward the real, ge-
nuine
bulls of papal crime, which I happened to have at that
time in my possession. (Cheers.) I immediately apologised
to the committee of the Protestant Association—l appealed
to them so strongly that they could not refuse my appeal, to
appoint another public meeting in London ' • and though the
town was nearly empty, yet, upon the second of August, these
atrocious bulls from the eighth volume of Dens, for the resti-
tution of the forfeited estates, the Bulla Cana Domini, and
the third canon of the Lateran Council, were brought for-
ward : what was the result ? The result was, that the press,
which upon the 2d of August was teeming with rage and fury,
upon the 3d of August, the day after the meeting, was dumb.
There was not a man to be found that dared to impeach the
solid documentary proofs of the tremendous facts respecting
those bulls. (Cheers.) From that day to the present, Dr.
Murray has been silent. (Cheers.) He did not dare to
enter into the investigation of one single fact, or to meet one
single document. He accused the smoking firebrands, as he
is pleased to call my friend Dr. O'Sullivan and myself, of go-
ing about to kindle the torch of sedition, and so on, but he
did not dare to meet us. (Hear, hear.) The papal bull, the
fictitious bull, he was pleased to take under his most gracious
protection. Up in the street, under the protection of the
Roman Catholic bishops of Ireland, until within the last few
months I have read placards as I passed, " Forgery M` Ghee."
But upon the 26th of last May, Dr. Murray wrote this letter
to Mr. O'Connell, denying the fact. This is the first
time he has appeared. There was a solid reason for
it, which I shall tell you of just now, and which
I trust will have some weight with
hyou.
hB e e ut it is necessary
y o u
:Murrayshouldwas kmneot w. for This
a lettercertainty
appearedow ti
in
Dublin. ofl forget
.
upond o aby
which
Mr. day,ovc obouat eol n. the
s26t
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asf May a
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a it was si.tasin readthei
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ssLpoen-
I addressed a letter to Dr. Murray. I called upon
follows. Observe, he says it is false that the Bulla Ccence
Domini and third Canon of the fourth Lateran Council were
published. I said—
" Now I take you upon both assertions. I assert that your
statement is thoroughly false—and I assert, further, that you
know it to be false—and now, sir, I call on the Roman Ca-
tholics of Ireland to mark you, and see if you are able to
bring your statement to the test."
Let me say, that in the use of language such as this, it ap-
agpeaairossttotimmeintodibveidrawatl
otleragraesinusltt
aonf
yirriiatdaitveiddaoarlanglrty
afepepleinagrss
to me to be a solemn part of faithful Christian duty. (Hear.)
I conceive it is a Christian minister's business, and his duty,
faithfulno t t o call
testimonyevil good a
ioors
tg 000pde
n evil,fa sbe uh
ot tdo
abne
da r
oap
eboldr
ma nd
e.
(Cheers.) This I hold to be true Christian charity, this I
hold to be duty to God and duty to man. (Hear.) I con-

tinned—
" I hereby publicly challenge and defy you to select any
body of Roman Catholics you please, high or low, learned or
unlearned, in the city of Dublin, from fifty to five hundred—
and select any priest in your diocese, who will stand forward
in your defence, and oppose, before those Roman Catholics,
and an equal number of Protestants, the following resolutions,
which I will undertake to propose and maintain, and put to
the meeting."
I then detailed the resolutions, and I will read one to you :
" RESOLVED.—That notwithstanding Dr. Murray's
denial of this canon in his evidence, and his assertion, in
this present letter, that it is utterly false that this canon is
contained in this eighth volume, added by his authority to the
theology of Dens, it is clear to this meeting that this canon
is cited in this volume, and not only cited, but cited as of
unquestionable authority, the law for bishops to purge
heretics out of their diocesses, and to inflict on them canoni-
cal penalties, which, it appears from their standard theology,
are, confiscation of property, exile, imprisonment, and
death."

Of this letter, and of this offer, Dr. Murray took no
notice ; therefore, upon the 24th August, I wrote to him, and
the letter upon the Bulla Ccenia Domini, proving that whilst
he denied this bull was authorised by any Roman Catholic
Bishops in Ireland, it was not only authorised, but set up as
the standard, whereby the law of " reserved cases" to the
Pope of Rome ; that the bull of Unigenitus, which he had
himself sworn to to be in force in Ireland, and others forming
the principles of the Church of Rome, were set up, and had
been set up from the year 1808 by himself and the other
bishops of Ireland : by Dr. Doyle, and Dr. M`Hale,
who swore it was not received in the country, but it had
been previously in this book, (6th vol. of Dens,) and taught
to the Roman Catholic priests from that day. There is my
letter. I refer him to the pages of the books. I defied him
to refute me, and Dr. Murray has not ventured to answer
this letter. On the sth October, that is last Monday, having
been unwell in the interval, I wrote to him on the point of his
denial—the Third Canon of the Fourth Lateran Council. I
will just read to you the quotations from this book of that
canon :

The duty you have laid down for yourself and your brethren
is the extermination of heretics out of your dioceses. The
law which you cite to enforce this duty of your religion is the
3d canon of the 4th Lateran Council, as laid down by the
infallible authority of your Pope, speaking ex cathedra, in
his diocesan synod. I shall quote the very words of your
episcopal obligation, literally translated ; and then I shall
quote the law by which you enforce it.
Ist.
The episcopal duty of Dr. Murray and his brother bishops in
Ireland, as laid down in his avowed and authorised code
of laws, which he informs us is in much repute in his church.
—Dens, vol. 8, p. 82.
TITLE " H.,EItETICA."
" The bishop is bound, even in places where the office of the
holy inquisition is in force, sedulously to take care that he may
purge the diocese entrusted to him from heretics ; and if he
shall find any, he ought to punish him with the canonical pun-
ishments ; ' these are as your standard informs us, " excom-
munication, confiscation, exile, imprisonment, and death."
You graciously add, to do you justice, that when we are
brought before your tribunal, and renounce ourerrors, you can
give us absolution, and reconcile us to the church. Thanks
—melius id sane.

The law cited by Dr. Murray the enforcement of this
the episcopal duty of himself and his brother bishops, ex-
tracted from the Diocesan Synod of Pope Benedict XIV.
—Lib. 7, cap. 32, n. 3, t. 2, p. 329, Nov. edit.
The first part of this citation I need not here transcribe,
for the sake of brevity. It is found at length in my book on
the e laws of the Papacy, first edition, pp. 97-99 ; second edi-
ion,—now in the press—pp. 137-139. It is only necessary
to §tate, that there it first quoted a letter of Itodorut to Pope

Lucius, pressing on bishops the duty of punishing heretics ;
then as this is considered doubtful, there is a citation de-
clared to be indubitable, from the Council of Rheims to the
same effect. Then you proceed as follows :
Now here is the reference from that book. Observe that he
declares it is an odious fabrication that, the third canon of
the fourth Luteran council. It is quite necessary to observe
that it is not necessary for me to cite the law ; it is sufficient
only to refer to it here.
And that we may not waste our time in illustrating a
subject which is undoubted amongst all, it will be abundantly
sufficient to allege one sanction of Innocent 111 in the Fourth
General Council of Lateran, . AD• 1215, in tne 3d canon of
which De Hwreticis,' the bishops are ordered every year,
either by themselves, or by their archdeacons, to go round
their own dioceses, and sedulously to investigate if any one
infected with heretical contagion lies concealed in it. But it
is decreed in the same place, that those who are slothful and
negligent in expurging the diocese committed to them, from
this heretical plague, as being guilty of a weighty crime, be
deposed from their office as unworthy the pastoral ministry."
Here is the standard for the Roman Catholic priests—in
which they are taught—ordering that the bishops shall go
round their dioceses every year, to search for heretical
contagion, and if they find it, they are to put the law in
force. Shall we be told now, by the press that we come
over to England to spread calumny and falsehood ? When
gentlemen stand up in the House of Commons, are my
reverend brother and myself to be told that we are paid for
going about to circulate calumnies and falsehoods of the
papacy ? (Cheers.) Give me leave to ask whither we are
to go ? What are we to do with these popish bishops ? We
call upon them to meet the cause, to meet the facts, to bring
their own directories, to come with their own priest, and
to stand in the midst of their own dioceses before the
Roman Catholics of Ireland. (Cheers.) But they dare
not meet the cause (vehemently.) If we commit an error,
as was well remarked in your report, if we fall into a mis-
take, out comes the whole body of the popish priests, and
they placard it throughout the whole town. There was not
a wall in all the streets of Dublin, on which I was not
placarded as a forger ; but the moment we came to bring
their own laws before the world, the moment we had evidence
of the principles of their own church, the moment we
brought their laws to the test, they shrunk back with the
consciousness of inward guilt; and they dare not open their
lips upon the subject. (Hear. hear.) I should be glad to
know what the Liverpool press, whose interest it is
to advocate the cause of the popery will make of this
(Hear, hear.) I have, I will say, not without some
degree of pride, condescended to attempt to vindicate my
character from the charge of forgery ; but give me leave to
ask you why the popish bishops placard the charge
against me of forging a bull which, if true, could
not implicate them ? (Hear.) The bull was only re-
presented as coming fpom the Pope. But their own
bulls, upon which their own character and their own
truth depends, the very existence of these proves
all the crimes that ever have been charged against the Papacy.
What is the reason why they dare not open their lips upon
the subject, when they are summoned to do so before their
own people? (Hear.) Will you pretend to say that these
bulls are innocuous ? You cannot deny that the Popish
bishops set them up, because they cannot deny it themselves.
(Hear.) What was the conduct of these men upon the bulls A
themselves ? When it was their interest to deny the bulls,
and to make it appear that they hated them, what was their
evidence ? Here is Dr. Doyle 's evidence. He is asked—
" Was not the same bull, namely the Bulls Creme, declar-
ed to be in force in the year 1793 ?—Answer.—Not only that,
but it may, for ought I know, have been declared during the
last year to have been in force ; but their declaring it to be
so in force, does not make it to be in force with us : we have
never received it, and surely never will."
" Is the Bull Ccenie Domini now in force ?
" There are portions of that Bull that were in force from
the time of Christ ; but the Bull as a Bull, is not in force,
nor ever was in force in Ireland, and has been rejected from
nearly all the Italian countries of Europe ; if that were in
force there is scarcely any thing would be at rest amongst
the catholic states of Europe, and they have been as solemn
and as earnest in protesting against it as we have been at
any period in England or Ireland."
There is his testimony to the bull that it would leave nothing
at rest if published in Roman catholic countries ; but whilst
he was denying it, it was printed in his own secret standard.
and it has been set up over and over again as of force and
application in the eighth volutr e of Dens' Theology. Dr.
WHale—here is his evidence--is asked

" Is there anything to prevent this Bull of 1741, being now
received in Ireland, or at any future time, supposing it has
not been received here already ?
" There is the collision that would be supposed to result
from the reception of that Bull with the established autho-
thorities of the country. This is an unsurmountable objec-
tion."

Dr. Doyle swears it will not allow rest even in Roman Ca-
tholic countries ; Dr. M`Hale says it will cause a collision
with the public authorities, and will you pretend to say it is
quite innocuous—that although it is published there is no
harm in it ? Again, what other evidence is there about that
third canon of the fourth council of Lateran? Hear other
evidence upon this canon with which I charge Dr. Murray
and the popish bishops with having set up in Ireland. Here
is Dr. Doyle's statement respecting the nature of this atro-
cious canon. It is extracted from his letter to Lord Liver-
pool, written in the year 1826, and which letter is placed
along with other documents among the books in the univer-
sities.

" Such a law in the present age would be immoral, unjust,
impossible. It would be opposed to the natural dispositions
of the people of this empire. Ii would be contrary to all the
laws, usages, and customs of our country. It would not be
suited to the times and circumstances in which we live. In
place of being necessary or useful, it would upturn the very
foundations of society, and instead of benefitting the entire
community, it would drench our streets and our fields in
blood."

There is the testimony which this man gives of that law which,
when they have got power, they set up in Ireland as the law
for exterminating heretics out of their dioceses. Hear.) But
these laws are a dead letter. I shall not enter into any de-
tail upon this subject, but 1 will call your attention to
some particular facts. You are no doubt aware that
there exists in Ireland, and not in Ireland alone, but in
England—aye, and in Liverpool too—(hear, hear)—a society
called the Ribbon Society. (Hear.) Let me call your at-
tention to two important facts. Here we, totally ignorant
of the circumstances of the working of this scei, tv, prove,
from certain documents, that the Roman Catholic hierarchy
instruct their priests to drill the people in a system of cer-
tain atrocious papal laws :—one, for instance, is unqualified
submission to the authority of the Pope ; another the resti-
tution of all the forfeited estates in Ireland; and another the
extermination of the Protestants of Ireland.' (Cheers.).
We prove that this system is inculcated
by the bishops into
the priests, for them to train the people in it. A committee
was held in the House of Lords. A number of independent
gentlemen of all classes—some public officers, some magis-
trates, some stipendiary magistrates—came and proved
a certain fact. What was it? Why, that there existed a
society in Ireland, bound together by an oath. (Hear.) They
gave the terms of that oath ; and what are those terms ? To
throw off the authority of the British Sovereign ; to recover
the forfeited estates ; to exterminate the Protestants. It is
proved by one set of witnesses, that a body of.
men are sworn
upon a certain day to perpetrate certain Fumes ; and it is
proved by another series of independent testimony, that these
crimes are inculcated upon them by the men that ought to
teach them, not crime but virtue, not the path of perdition,
but the way to everlasting truth. (Hear.) Let me read to
you one brief extract :
" This association appears by the evidence (this is the
statement of a judge in a court of justice) to be affiliated with
numerous other societies of the same character, not only
in Ireland, but in different parts of Great Britain. Now
mark. I am reading from the statement of a judge, from
the evidence brought before him in a court of justice."
" It appears to be exclusive in its character, being con-
fined to persons of one religious creed. It appears that it
holds its meetings in secret conclave, and that money is ob-
tained by its heads or leaders, as contributions from its
members. There are other characteristics of this associa-
tion appearing from the evidence. It manifests no definite
intention or object of attainment, but at the same time it ap-
pears to possess organisation capable of being made instru-
mental for any purpose requiring combined movement and
unity of action. Again, harmless though it may apparently
be, in the absence of any manifestation of ascertained aim or
object, it is formidable in its adaptation to any purpose,
however criminal, which, through design or accident, its
leaders might be prompted to undertake.
Who is the judge that pronounces that sentence from the
public tribunal, upon evidence adduced before him? (Hear.)
He is a Roman Catholic judge him—it is Mr. Justice Ball.
(Hear, hear.) Now let us ask what there is to be done when
in such a state of things ? Are these laws to be set up within
the realms of the British Sovereign, for the utter subversion
of all the institutions of the land, to use the words of a Ro-
man Catholic bishop himself—to overturn the very founda-
tions of society, and drench our:fields and streets in blood ?
(Hear, hear.) Is this a state of things to be submitted to ?
(" No.") I heard you applaud with great vehemence the
proposal of my friend who proposed the first resolution, for
repealing the emancipation bill. (Hear.) Before I enter
upon this subject, I think it will be admitted that I have prov-
ed the first part of the resolution. I think I have demon-
strated, as far as documentary evidence can go, that the
popish bishops, in direct violation of their oaths, have set up
these laws in Ireland. (Cheers.) At this point, the rev.
and eloquent gentleman entered upon the consideration of
the second part of the resolution, and spoke upon it for nearly
an hour. We regret that the excessive length of our report
has so circumscribed our time and space, that we are com-
pelled to postpone this conclusion till our next number. Mr.
M`Ghec sat down amidst general cheers. He spoke for up-
wards of two hours and a quarter.
The Rev. HuGn STOWELL, in rising to second the resolu-
tion, said, I come no there, Mr. Chairman and fellow-protes-
tants and fellow-Christians, to offer any apology. I have no
apology to make. I am a man more sinned against than sin-
ning. (Cheers.) My conscience in the sight of God acquits
me of having said one word that was false, or one word that
savoured of calumny or unkindness to any living man, in the
case that has brought my name so painfully, but I trust use-
fully, before the eyes of the British public. (Cheers.) It
may be allowed me, sir, without the charge of egotism, to
advert somewhat largely, and indeed, to confine my remarks
to the case in which I was so deeply interested, and I think I
may without vanity say,—because it was not a personal but a
public, not an individual but a protestant matter,—in which
this great protestant nation was so deeply interested, at a re-
cent assize in this town. (Hear.) Were it merely any little
measure of reputation that may belong to me, as an humble
and unworthy minister of the gospel of Christ, that was
stabbed and invaded, much as that reputation must be dear
to me as a man, and more as a Christian man, and most as a
Christian minister, I would pass it by, and commit my cause,
as I have done, to him that judgeth rightly, and who can bring
forth my righteousness as the light, and my just dealing as
the noon-day. (Cheers.) But when I remember that the
attempt, as has been again and again remarked this morning,
is not simply to aim a blow at me, an unworthy individual,
but at the fidelity and truthfulness of protestant statement
and advocacy in general, I cannot but feel, that to pass by
the case without remark and without vindication would be to
pass by truth, without endeavouring to dispel any little mist
that through me might seem to hover around her beauteous
features, and without seeking. to make her beam forth again
in the sunshine of her own integrity and principle. (Applause.)
Let it be allowed me, then to observe, my friends, that the
occasion on which the event took place was a perfectly justi-
fiable one. I was occupying the position which my friend Dr.
Tattershall now occupies, at a great public meeting to peti-
tion the once protestant government—though now the muti-
lated protestant government of this country, to with-
draw the annual grant of protestant money for the
support of a seminary to indoctrinate popish priests in the
dark theology of Dens and the black councils of the middle
ages. Surely, then, as a Christian minister, as the clergy-
man of a Protestant church, I was perfectly in my place, oc-
cupying a post in perfect keeping with my character and
principles. Surely I was acting hi obedience to my ordina-
tion vows, by which I am pledged and sworn to be ready to
drive away all false doctrines and opinions, not only from
England, but also from Ireland. (Hear.) It is not the
united churches,
but the united church of England and Ire-
land. (Hear and cheers.) We are fighting the battle of the
church of Ireland. Our reverend brethren from across the
water—and we owe them a deep debt of gratitude—they feel
.what we only hear of the church of Rome, and they strive to
awaken us before her fangs make us feel too—(hear)—they
are fighting the battle of the church of England. Theirs is
the post of honour, because the post of danger. I will not
call it the forlorn hope. Protestant hope is never forlorn.
(Great cheering.)
I was therefore, I repeat, perfectly in my
place on the occasion when the circumstance took
_place
which has brought me into such painful notoriety. I was
also, I believe, perfectly in my place in bringing forward the
document which formed the subject of the proceedings
aping me. That document was not a far-fetched tale, de-

signed to illustrate some point irrelevant to the proceedings
of the evening. It was adduced for the simple purpose of
showing that the system against which the meeting was called
to petition, inculcated opinions, and produced practices ut-
terly unfit for this great Protestant Christian nation to coun-
tenance and support in any degree. (Hear.) I was there-
fore, I conceive, perfectly authorised in bringing forward a
document which went to fasten and prove this charge, I say
not on any individual priest, but to fasten it on the Romish
system at large. (Hear.) I was equally borne out in the
evidence on which I went in adducing that document. The
document was not in the first instance addressed to
myself. I had heard and inquired about it once and
again before the meeting took place. It was put into
my hands by two individuals on whose veracity and candour
I had every reliance. I examined and cross-examined them,
to ascertain whether or no the persons vouching for the ge-
nuineness of the document, and the authenticity of the facts,
were willing to stand up and swear to every particular it con-
tained. I was assured that they were perfectly prepared.
I read over the document. I saw nothing in it unfit for pub-
lication. It appeared to me deeply interesting, and some-
thing which concerned Protestants in general, and most of
all the great community of Manchester, to be made ac-
quainted with. The circumstances it detailed, involved, to
my mind, no charge that any man could fairly complain of,
because it was no charge against the man, but against the
system, not the party but the principles of the church of
which he was a minister. (Cheers.) I may say, indeed,
with perfect truth, and without extenuation, that it never
occurred to my mind for a moment that I had given utter-
ance to anything whatever that could be tortured into disre-
spect or disparagement to the individual. (Hear.) And let it
be remarked, and those who are familiar with the details of tha
case need not be told, that this document did not mention
the name of any individual priest. The inferential method
by which it was deduced, was entirely unauthorised. It
might be made out, but the man O'Hare did not name the
priest who had imposed the penance. He simply said, his
priest. I nowhere and never charged any individual priest.
I expressed my belief that some priest had done it, and I hold
that belief to the present moment. (Cheers.) But while I
hold this full conviction of my right to say this, I defy
any person acqusinted with the whole developement of
the trial to prove that I said who was the individual
priests that had done it. (Hear.) But, sir, I am charged
with a great want of discretion and discernment in giving
utterance to any name. I hate anonymous assassins of other
men's reputations. (Cheers.) I never was, and, by the
grace of God, I never will be, an assassin of this class.
(Hear.) I never wrote an anonymous letter in my life. I
conceive it to be dishonourable. I would put my name to
what I write, and I would give the name of any man against
whom I brought an accusation. (Applause.) We leave
stealthiness and such crooked policy to that church which is
the mother and mistress of it. Church of England Protes-
tants do not, and God forbid they ever should, make use of
such dark and assassin-like methods. (Cheers.) After all,
it has been, and will be, said, you could not, and ought not,
to believe so strange, and monstrous, and incredible a story,
as that any priest should enjoin any man to go and do so de-
grading an action in the light of day, though, be it observed,
it was in the twilight, and at night, and not in the broad day,
that he was performing his penance. It was not intended to
be generally known. But can you, it is said, believe that
they could do such a thing? I appeal simply to the autho-
rity of the church and the practices of the church. If I can
prove that it is in obedience to that authority, and in strict
accordance with that practice, I think I shall satisfactorily
prove that I was neither over credulous nor indiscreet in be-
lieving a Popish priest capable of making a poor mau crawl
on his hands and knees, and do a degrading penance. I turn,
then, to their own authorised canons, the canons of the coun-
cil of Trent, and there I find that they speak to this effect:—
[Mr. Stowell then quoted chapter the 3rd of the session on
penance, investing the priest with power to impose punish-
ment for sin, and enjoining him, at the peril of his own soul,
to take care that the punishment was proportionable to the
crime, as, otherwise, he would become a partaker in °thar
mens transgressions.] I conceive, (said Mr. Stowell, in
continuation,) that there is ample authority and instruction
to the priests of the Romish church, not only to require con-
fession, and to enjoine prayer, and almsgiving and fasting,
but whatever other penal and physical inflection he may in
his discretion see fit to enforce ; and that the Roman Catholic
priests do see fit in their discretion to enforce such penances
as that which O'Hare was performing is so notorious, that
how any man could stand up in the face of a British jury,
and in the midst of a British court of judicature, and deny
that it is done in Ireland, and wherever Popery dares to do
it, this is only one other demonstration among the teeming
multitude that encompass us on every side, that Popery has
a conscience that fears nothing, and a brow of brass that
shrinks not from shame and infamy if she can acomplish her
purpose. (Loud cheers.) Need I remind you that you have
had it amply brought before you by the press, and that in
one instance by an individual who had been himself a priest,
and knew the dark secrets of the priesthood, that such in-
flictions are things of every-day occurrence in Ireland. Who
has not heard of Lough Dery, and the stations in its
neighbourhood. (Hear, hear.) Even Mr. Inglis, a Liberal,
gives ample details of the dreadful scenes of this kind
which are to be witnessed in all parts of the country.
(Cheers.) Mr. Noel, not one (though I love him sincerely)
apt to judge too harshly of popery, gives us abundant evidence
to the same effect, and says, that thousands of persons are
to be seen crawling on their hands and knees, streaking the
rocks with their blood. (Hear, hear.) A clergyman high
in the Church of England, who, on turning from Judaism,
halted at the half-way house of popery—if I should not rather
call popery the half-way house between Christianity and
Paganism--offered to come forward and swear, that at Rome,
by the order of cardinals, and under the eye of the pope, he
has performed a similar penance to that of O'Hare, by crawl-
ing on his hands and knees. (Hear and cheers.) We find
that their saints that are most admired, and held up as pat-
terns in modern times, whose miracles they blazon and whose
names they canonize, are distinguished for similar penances.
Nor are these only cases of far and by-gone days. If time
permitted, I might read extracts from a book lately published
by Mr. Wiseman, giving an account of the saints canonized
in 1839, some for the most terrific self-inflicted penances.
And if saints were canonized for such deeds as these, was
O'Hare to be considered a degraded man in the eyes of
popery because lie crawled on his hands and knees to save his
soul? (Hear, hear.) We denounce, abhor, loathe, and
execrate the system, and from our hearts we compassionate,
pity, and weep over these poor dupes and votaries of super-
stition. (Cheers.) But it has been circulated, as you are
aware, that O'Hare is an idiot, and, therefore, that for me
to bring forward his case argued very little sense, and very
little forbearance towards popery. What are the real facts
of the case ? They are these. I had not the most distant
idea that O'Hare had lost his senses till long after 1 read the
document. (Hear.) I was not aware of it when I was first
written to on the subject. Bat what, after all, are the facts
of the crse ? Up to the time of his doing the penance,
O'Hare had discovered no indications of insanity whatever.
(Cheers.) We have further the testimony of those witnesses
who ought to have been called, and if God spares us, I hope
yet shall be called—(much applause)—we have their testi-
mony, not only that O'Hare gave the answers precisely as
they are put down, but they believed him to be a sane man
at the time he gave them • and that if they had thought him
insane they would have taken him into custody at once. But
let any dispassionate and unprejudiced man look at the do-
cument, at the questions and answers, and mark how coher-
ent, how consistent, how straightforward, how unhesitating,
how unembarrassed, they are, and if they do not appear more
like the answers of a sane man than those of a lunatic—of a
man in his sober senses, though under the dark and grinding
spell of a terrible superstition. (Cheers.) It is true that
shortly afterwards, that very morning, he appeared to become
insane. Is it to be wondered at? We have a poor creature
suffering under his penance, crawling four hours a day, two
at night and two in the morning, in this cruel way, fevered
in mind and emaciated in body, interrupted in his penance
on the performance of which he believed his everlasting rest-
ing to depend, dragged from it to the workhouse, and thus
impressed with the idea that his soul would be eternally
lost,—l say, it was enough to make a mind already strung
up to the next point to bursting, fly off into downright mad-
ness. (Hear.) But who drove him to madness? (" The
man that gave him the work to do.") Since his confinement
in Lancaster Asylum, he has maintained, as the physician
has assured me, an obstinate, unbroken silence. Nothing
can induce him to breathe a syllable, so that it is impossible
to know whesher he is now insane or not, whether he is a
knave or a madman. (Hear.) I draw no inference. I give
you the simple state of the case. I gave what I conceived to
be of deep moment to all. I never asserted that any indivi-
dual priest had made the man submit to the penance. I
never mentioned any name on that occasion. I simply gave
the statement as it stood. And what was my object in so
doing? My object was to stand between the oppressor and
the oppressed. (Applause.) To do justice to the poor, and
to avert from them the iron sceptre of those who make the
iron enter into their very souls. (Hear.) Is a man to be
lauded and applauded as Mr. O'Connell was, because he
conies, with beautiful consistency, to defend the cause of de-
based, enslaved, enchained Africans, and is he to be cen-
sured, and denounced, and driven out of society, because he
stands up for the degraded, enslaved, enchained laity of the
Romish Church ? (Cheers.) Because he would burst from
their souls fetters ten thousand times more debasing and de-
grading than those that ever bound a sable arm ? (Cheers.)
Are we to avert the lash from lacerating the back of the poor
slave, and not to denounce the secret spell that the lacera-
tion of the hands and knees of the poor dupe of popery ? A man
has come forward to prove that he has three times done this
penance, and once under the eye of the priest, and every
time at his bidding, and did it so cruelly that for three weeks
he was unable to do a stroke of work, as he expressed it.
Was it not a deed of justice and common humanity for an
Englishman to stand between such oppression and the op-
pressed, much more the deed of a minister of mercy, a mi-
nister of the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood
cleanseth from all sin, and which has not left any room for
such self-inflicted tortures to fill up the measure of his infi-
nite atonement for ever made ? (Applause.) Was it not
right for him to lift up his voice against such practices?
(Hear.) If the Protestant clergy did not lift up their voices
against it, the Protestant community would shortly have
bitterly to lament it. We know that these things are done
in Ireland. The boast of Rome is that she is one. 'What is
done in Ireland is virtually done in England, virtually done
wherever popery exists. It a man be a rascal at Rome, or in
Ireland, he is a rascal in England too. If popery be a rascal,
a usurpress, a tyrant at Rome or in Ireland, she is a rascal, a
usurpress, a tyrant in Old England. (Great applasise.) If
the Romanists begin now to put these penances down in Ire-
land, thank God for it. Any little suffering I may have gone
through in consequence of any degree of suspense or anxiety
respecting the trial—though God has kept my mind in peace
—and after it was decided, my concern was not about the
verdict, I cared little for it, but about the not bringing for-
ward a mass of evidence that would have carried at
once the moral verdict of all England. (Cheers.) But
under this discouragement I opened my Bible, that blessed
well-spring of comfort and joy, and my eye met, as if it had
stood out in letters of light, the words " Fear not, Paul ;
thou shall be brought before Caesar." (Cheers.) I have no
fear, my Christian friends, but that good is resulting, and will
result, from these events. Though to our short-sighted eyes
they may seem to be unfortunate, nothing is unfortunate in
the glorious plans and purposes of God. To the children of
God all things work together for good. If it has humbled
me, it has done me good : if it has stabbed popery, it has
done my country and my church a service. (Cheers.) It
has done the Roman Catholics good too. There was a poor
plain working-man, one of my stated communicants, who
laboured in a coal yard belonging to Lord Francis Egerton,
where many papists are around him. The pending cause
was often discussed. He went on the Monday morning after
the trial, expecting a yell of triumph. But they all said,
We are sorry that Stowell had has lost it. He stands
between us and them that would wrong us." (Much ap-
plause.) One Irishman said, "lam a poor man, but poor
as I am, I would rather have given 10s. than that the priest
should have gained it." I dare not mention the names of
these people, for it would expose them to persecution by
their poor bigotted neighbours. But several have given their
half-crowns towards defraying the expenses of the trial,
believing that I had been standing up for the oppressed
against the oppressor. (Cheers.) But this is an unimportant,
result, 'compared with the moral result on many of their
minds. Only last night two intelligent and comfortably
circumstanced Roman Catholics were with me, and the
exclamation of one of them was, " If the priests deny
these things, where is their truth or their veracity ? (Hear,
hear, hear.) Aud I wish you could have seen, my
friends, With what delight he clasped in his hands a Bible
which I gave him, and said, " I have never had one, but I
have thought many a hundred times whether it was right to
keep it from the poor man's house and hands." (Cheers.)
I cannot regret the issue of the trial ; and I believe I am
correct in stating that a letter appeared in the Times, re-
marking that the effect of the priests being put into the
Protestant confession-box, and the screw of cross-examina-
tion applied to them, forcing them to make confession,—the
effect of reading this upon the Roman Catholics, was, that

they said, "If this be the case, we will never do 'penance
again." (Laughter and applause.) The less Popery has to
do with such prosecutions the better for her own interests.
(Hear.) Depend upon it she is upon the horns of a dangerous
and delicate dilemma. On the one hand, she wants to keep
the bandage on the eyes of the poor lukewarm Protestant,
and on th other, not to loose it from the eyes of the poor
benighted Roman Catholics. Thus what she denies in Eng-
land, she maintains in Ireland : but it is difficult to keep her
denials from going over there ; She knows that the Irish are
far too shrewd a people not to see that which is true inEngland
is true in Ireland. " Have they not taught us that the
church is Catholic, and therefore one ; that it is infallible,
and therefore cannot lie or deceive ? We begin to suspect
that their infallibility is only infallible falsehood beneath."
(Cheers.) There is one point more connected with the
recent circumstances, to which I shall take the liberty to ad-
vert. It is this. I have been charged with somewhat of
resentment and unkindly feeling, in wishing to keep alive
the controversy, and obtain a new trial. I will just ask,
were those who brought forward the trial so studious of pub-
lic peace in the first instance ? (Hear.) I invited an inves-
tigation of the facts. I offered to give my authority if asked
by. the. Roman Catholics. I did this quietly, and in an ami-
cable spirit. Did they avail themselves of this candid and
Christian offer. No : I received at once an attorney's letter.
(Hear.) An attorney's letter, every prudent man knows,
can only be answered by an attorney. If they had wished
to avoid a persecution, of which they now profess such a hor-
ror, wny did not the individual who thought himself aggriev-
ed write to me? Whv did he not wait upon me, or depute
some person to do so? Did their conduct evince a charitable
desire to have the matter quietly explained, or an eagerness
to avail themselves of a happy slip to give another blow to a
Protestant clergyman? (Applause.) They stabbed Mr.
M`Neile thus. They stabbed Mr. M`Ghee thus, though I
believe it has only surrounded his head with a brighter crown
of simplicity and godly sincerity. (Cheers.) Our honesty
causes us to make mistakes : their dishonesty is the reason
why they make so few. (Hear.) We should have no
chance with them were it not that our cause is the cause of
God. The more sincere and upright we are, the more we
are ashamed of anything dark, winding, or savouring of calum-
ny : the more sincere they are, the more they will practice
falsehood and deceit, to set forward the cause of their church.
(Hear, hear.) They told, as I could prove if there were
time, that an oath to the disadvantage of their church
is no better than perjury. A man does a holy and good
deed, entitling him to be canonized, if he swears falsely in
order to crush a Protestant advocate. (Cheers.) Have we
not heard of the penitentiarius, mentioned by Mr. M`Ghee,
receiving power to absolve from any and every crime, in any
part of the Romish dominions, and either by letter or deputa-
tion? What hold can we have on the members of such a
system as this ? (Hear.) An oath to them is but as the
withes that bound Samson, which were snapped asunder like
a thread of tow. (Cheers.) Why, infidelity is better than
popery. Any system is better than that which makes that
an instrument of evil which God intended to be an instrument
of mercy and love to a lost world. (Applause.) I speak,
Mr. Chairman, calmly and dispassionately, because I believe
that no principle in the fallen nature of man is so powerful
as depraved religiousness. It is the master principle of the
heart of man. Before he fell it was religiousness. He aspired
after, and loved, and delighted in God. When man fell he
did not lose this principle of his nature any more than any
other. But this, with every other, became distorted, de-
praved, and corrupted, but still most powerful and mighty.
It is impotent for good, like every other, but potent for evil,
till transformed, and renewed, sanctified by the spirit of God,
It works mightily, but only for mischief. The Church of
Rome has laid hold of this principle of the depraved religious-
ness of man, and it furnishes her with a purchase on the souls
of those whom she holds in bondage, to wield them, as by a
lever, at her will. (Loud cries of! " hear," "hear." It
is the secret of all the mighty power and despotism of
Rome. And allow me to assure you that we ourselves should
be just as much the dupes of the priesthood, and the slaves
of their superstitions, as our poor brethren in Ireland, if we
had been brought up as they have been. They, from early
childhood, have the depraved religiousness of their nature
brought not into obedience to the truth as it is in Jesus, but
into captivity to the power of the priest. (Haar.) The
whole system is not to exalt the Saviour, but to exalt the
priesthood, by means of the corrupted religiousness of our
nature. And we, I say, might at this moment have been
the slaves of this diabolical system. May God enable us
ever to keep in mind the distinction between hating the
system and hating the individual—between attacking the
men and attacking the doctrines. (Hear, hear.) I would
it were duly regarded by every honest and right-hearted
man in England. They would then join our ranks, and wish
us God speed. It is said that we are severe, bitter, vehe-
ment. Is there not a cause ? (Cheers.) Consider what is
in peril. Would you quarrel with a man whose house was
on fire, because he rushed through the flames, and seized
the sleeping family, and awoke them with terror and dismay,
starting and affrighting them with his vehemence ? No :
you would say there was a cause. You would admire his
vehemence, and love him for his zeal. And when we see
our fellow-creatures in danger of the fire of hell, are we to
be found fault with, because, in our vehemence and zeal, we
sometimes take our fellow-sinners by the shoulders, and
seek to wake them from the sleep of perdition? (Cheers.)
If our Protestant countrymen feared more, we should
fear less. (Hear, hear.) If they were awake, we should
be less anxious ourselves to be awake. It is the torpor and
the slumber of the protestant community that we have worst
to dread. I sin sick of mere party conservatism ; I am
sick of mere political partisanship ; I am sick of every party
except the party of Christ. (Cheers.) I respect the talents
of Sir Robert Peel ; but I have not forgotten his abandon-
ment of his protestant ground ; and Sir Robert Peel never
can and never ought to recover the full confidence of this
nation, till he has risen out of the mire of expediency, and
planted his foot anew on the rock of scriptural truth. (Loud
applause.) We are not politicians, sir. This is not a poli-
tical society, except in its indirect bearinz. Many of our
reverend brethren say they cannot go with us because we
are so political. But I see many of their names in our con-
servative societies, many of them speaking at our conserva-
tive dinners, at our meetings, or on our hustings. Ido not
judge them. Let them not judge me. Neither I, nor Mr.
M`Ghee, nor Mr. M`Neile, ever joined a conservative so-
ciety, or came on the hustings, or appeared at a conservative
dinner. Are we to be denounced as firebrands, as political
agitators ? Sir, we have something higher than politics.
(Cheers.) We have the gospel. (Loud cheers.) We are
not-politically religious, we are religiously political. (Hear.)
We do not put polities for or before religion, but we put
religion in politics,,-and in government, and in parliament,
and in everything, and we say there is no good where Chris-
tianity and the gospel are not. (Hear and cheers.) • I would
give little for mere party conservatism. It wants the
root. The love of Christ is not in it. It cherishes the
church for the sake of the state, instead of the state for the
sake of the church. If we want to protest and defend our
protestant constitution, to restore its beautiful proportions,
to replace those pillars that have fallen down, the monarchy
and the Lord Chancellorship alone remaining, once the me-
morials of protestant fidelity, but now of protestant folly and
perfidy,—if we want to repair and protect our protestant go-
vernment, it is because we reverence the truth as it is in
Jesus, of which we believe that constitution to be the bul-
wark in these realms. (Hear.) I would call upon you,
therefore, to beware of a mere political spirit in this holy
warfare. Let us not secularize our high enterprise. Let us
remember that we are to do all to the glory of God, that we
are not to know fear or favour, partiality or prejudice ; to
call no man lord or master, that one is our master, even
Christ, one our watchword, the unmutilated, uncontaminated
Word of God ; one our high object, to banish popery and
error from the face of this fair world, till they become king-
doms of our Lord and of his Christ. (Cheers.) We do not hold
naked protestantism, but catholic truth against every error.
We will subordinate everything to this. lam no politician ;
but I tell you what I hope to do, if I am spared to see ano-
ther election, and God grant it may come soon, if it is to
further His cause ; I will take the liberty of writing to our
county members, and the candidate for Salford, a humble
letter, not to ask them to pledge themselves on the corn-laws,
or on corporation bills, or on anything merely temporal : but
to declare their belief, that they ought to pursue invariably a
line of policy tending to depress and remove popery, and
tending to exalt and maintain, uncompromised and undefiled,
the Protestant faith as established at the glorious Reforma-
tion, and the glorious Revolution, when William came over
of blessed memory. (Tumultuous applause.) A man may
style himself whig, radical, or tory, for much that I care;
but if he only act on this high principle, and take the Word
of God for his guide, he cannot go far wrong. We are not
for names, but things ; not for party, but principles ; not for
men, but measures. (Hear, and cheers.) We want, in the
House of Commons and the House of Lords, senators as
true to the church of England as the popish senators are to
the church of Rome—men who will view every question, not
simply in reference to its bearing upon the commerce or the
civil institutions of the country, but upon the moral and
Christian character of the nation. (Much applause.) Men
who will fear God, and do what is right, though all hell and
earth stood against them ; who will plant their backs against
the Bible, and say, " We dare the universe to move us from
the ground we have taken up." (Loud cheers.) And, sir,
Ido not despair. I believe that popery is recovering, and
will for a time recover power, not so much by di-
rect force as by policy and fraud ; not from her own
intrinsic potency, as from the impotency, the dissen-
sion, the blindness, the-apathy of Protestantism. She
may league with infidelity, and prevail for a time : but I be-
lieve that God is marshalling the Protestant soldiers for the
conflict, in which, though they may be cast down they will
notbe destroyed; " Who is on,the Lord's side, who ?" will
shortly be the cry, not " Do you belong to Conservatism, or
Radicalism, or Toryism ?" but " Do you belong to Christ or
Antichrist, to Protestantism or Popery, the Word of God or
the lying fictions that man has palmed upon it ?" (Cheers.)
Yes, and the sooner the struggle comes the better :
the more
speedily it will be settled, the more safe, the more fraught
with good to man and glory to God. (Hear and cheers.)
They may prove our principles, and ask ourselves if we be
ready, not merely to be prosecuted, not merely to be tor-
tured, but, if needs be, to die for the truth. (Applause.)
Who shall stand in that day ? The humblest man. The
man that most distrusts himself, and most confides in his
Saviour and his God—the man that says, " I dare do any-
thing but offend God, and dare face a frowning world if my
Father's smiling countenance beams bright upon my soul.
Give me the still small voice of his approval, and I care not
for the tornado of the world ; but if that whisper reproach, in
vain were the applauses of an assembled universe." (Cheers.)
I go along with my rev. friend Mr. M`Ghee, to a very great
extent, in his test, I cannot commit myself wholly till I
have read his argument on paper. I can much better un-
derstand and weigh an argument in that form. I think,
however, that he has quite carried his point, and I
agree with him that we must never rest till we have
made Old England a Protestant land again. (Loud cheers.)
Our blessed master has told us, that a kingdom divided
against itself cannot stand. England was once united, and
she never can prosper till she is united again. (Hear, hear.)
Why is Ireland shaken to her centre, and England beginning
to rock beneath the storm ? Because we have a kingdom di-
vided against itself. (Hear.) Therefore lam quite willing
to second the resolution. Mr. M`Ghee has told us, that Po-
pery does not want equality, but ascendancy. She does not
take our hands as brothers, but she takes our consciences as
slaves to drag us at her chariot wheels. (Hear.) They say
they are never to rest till they have extirpated heretics. We-
take up the word : we will never rest till we have extirpated,
not heretics, but heresy, not from England, but from the
world • and if we die before it is done, thank God we shall
have died doing what we could. (Long-continued applause.)
The resolution having been put to the meeting, and passed
in due form, the chairman announced that the usual collec-
tion would then be made, after which they would proceed
with the remainder of the business. The collectors having
gone round,
The Rev. Hu WNEILE rose to move the next resolu-
tion. He spoke as follows :—Mr. Chairman,—Another great
Amphitheatrical display of bigotry, intolerance, and all un-
charitableness. (Laughter.) Alas, sir, for esteemed con-
temporaries, who are exceedingly mortified at our increased
influence among the people. They cannot conceal it. They
have got about the doors of the Amphitheatre distributing
hand-bills to-day. (Hear.) Here is an address to English-
men and Protestants. It has been brought in since we have
been assembled, and begins, " How long will you run after
these blind guides ? For blind they are ; whether wilfully or
not is a question we leave to their own consciences." A
very plausible way of beginning. A great many will read it,
and think we are very uncharitable, and that the Catholic
who writes this is a very pious, quiet sort of
_a man. (A.
laugh.) " If," he goes on,
" you are proud of the name of
Englishmen, show yourselves worthy of that name, by giving
fair play, and hearing what the Catholics have to say in their
defence." Asking for fair play ! Surely Dr. Murray did not
send this to Mr. 111‘Gbee 1 (Loud laughter and cheers.)
" Hear both sides," they say. Why, we tell you both sides
ourselves : for we take their books, and let the very best
men speak for them, and then we speak after they have done.
pool who could speak so
There is not a Popish priest in Liver

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well of Popery as Peter Dens. Mr. M`Ghee lets you hear
both sides. (Loud cheers.) He makes Dens speak, and the
Council of Trent speak, and Cardinal Cajetan speak, and
Ma'donates speak, and Van Espen speak ; and he speaks
himself in reply: and yet here comes a shuffling fellow
to the door, and says, " Hear both sides." (Laughter and
applause.) I have said enough about this. (A laugh.) I
said, alas for our contemporaries, who are much mortified
at our increased influence among the people. One of their
last puny efforts to depreciate us in the estimation of their
readers, is the assertion that we give our speeches ready
written to the reporter for the Standard or the Mail. I
protest I wish I had time to write mine. They would in that
case be much better than they are, in some respects, and
worse in others. But I speak and preach too often to be
able even to attempt to write it all down. I would not,
however, affront my respectable auditors by coming before
them without any preparation, and perhaps one reason why
the Standard reports our speeches so as to excite the envy of
those gentlemen, is, that they are clearly and orderly de-
livered. This they will call some more of my impudence—(a
laugh)—but I have yet to learn that there is any real humility
in refraining from speaking the truth. I cannot wonder at
those gentlemen supposing that the admirable reporter for
the Standard gets our speeches ready written. Judging of
our proceedings, very naturally but very erroneously, by their
own, and knowing that neither their speakers nor their re-
porters can do, without elaborate and special preparation,
what we are doing day after day,—giving clever and verbatim
reports,—they are of necessity driven to ascribe to us either
pre-eminence in talent or pre-eminence in industry : and
willing rather to be outdone in drudgery than in genius, they
allege that we are laborious over much. (Hear.) I would
take this opportunity of saying to our mercantile friends,
that if they wish their advertisements to be sent far and wide
on the wings of our reports, they will give their advertisements
to the Standard. Descending, however, from their usually
abusive epithets, conveying accusations which they themselves
know to be unfounded, one of them has lately attempted to
argue in answer to a part of one of my speeches, made in this
place on Monday week. They are afraid to trust their read-
ers with the whole speech given fairly, lest inconvenient
conviction might be the consequence, but mutilating it ad
libitum they proceed to answer their selected extracts. (A
laugh.) A few comments on this attempt will lead me into
the same line of address which I adopted on the occasion
referred to—a line which, in truth, I prefer on all oc-
casions, because it distinguishes, as the facts of the case
demand, between the Roman Catholic laity and the Roman
Catholic hierarchy, and because it presents us in our
proper aspect, as advocates and defenders of our poor Roman
Catholic fellow-countrymen against the oppressions and
privations under which they are made to stiffer by their
ecclesiastical taskmasters. It is a course, moreover, in
accordance with the resolution which I have been re-
quested by the committee to present to the meeting.
It is this—" That the present condition of our poor
Roman catholic fellow-countrymen is such as should en-
gage the best sympathies and elicit the most strenuous
efforts of this great Christian community, for their spiritual
instruction and deliverance from the bondage of their fellow-
men, into the glorious liberty of the gospel of the grace of
God." This resolution calls our attention to the present
condition of our poor Roman catholic fellow-countrymen.
It is a condition, as you have heard already, more than once,
of complicated hardship, both spiritual and temporal. Nov,
I want to put a few features of this case in a simple and plain
way before this assembly, and before the country. And I
will tell you why. Mr. M`Ghee has made out a statement
for statesmen. He has made out a case for all the statesmen
of England. (Hear.) But the statesmen won't hear. (A
laugh.) And the statesmen won't act upon this case, although
they cannot turn it. Our enemies and their enemies have
beguiled them into a compromise of principle, by which some
of them are still beguiled, and from which others, who are
beginning to see their mistake, have not the moral courage
to withdraw. (Hear.) Well: how shall we get them to
hear ? How shall we get them to pay attention to such a
case as has been made out to-day ? The power of England
has migrated from the great aristocracy of the country, down
to the class of people who now fill this room ; and the way
to get them to attend to this case is for you to take it up.
You, the people of England—you, and such as you, who have
the elective franchise, who have substantially the political
power of the realm—if you take it up, and make them feel
that it is a popular cause, then the very same thing that made
them go back from Protestantism will make them return to
Protestantism. (Hear, and cheers.) Ido not give them
credit in this for much stedfastness of principle. I take
them as I find them : they went before popular opinion in
one direction, and if the wind changes we shall have them
going before popular opinion in another direction. (Cheers.)
Therefore, however they may despise our efforts, we are set-
ting ourselves at the very helm of the state by making Pro-
testantism popular. They begin to see it. They begin to
feel the effect upon the mass of the people of our popular
addresses. This is the secret of their hostility to us. This
is the reason why they would wish Mr. M`Ghee, and Dr.
O'Sullivan, and Mr. Stowell, and your humble servant, at
New South Wales, if they dared to send us there. (Cheers.)
Well ; this is a good reason for making our statements popu-
lar. It is a reason in answer to the sneers they throw out, and
which have often been directed to me,—" Why do you spend
your strength in talking to such a set of people ? Why not
try to influence the great ones of the land, the noble lords
whom you have occasionally access to ?" My answer is,
that the courtesies and etiquette of society do not allow plain
speaking before noble lords. (A laugh.) Such a measured
tone is necessary there, that there is no power in it. I ex-
pect power to come up there by and by. I say, let me alone
till I get the operatives energized with real protestant prin-
ciple. (Cheers.) Let Mr. Stowell alone for it in Manches-
ter. (Cheers.) In one point of view, indeed, I wish you
not to let him alone. Do not let him alone with regard to
the expenses of the late trial. (Hear.) I will be very happy
to act as his purse-bearer pro tempore, and to take anything
for this cause that you may choose to entrust to my care.
(Hear.) Well : in this course of making our statements
popular, sir, I was showing on Monday week, in this place,
the privations under which our Roman Catholic fellow-
countrymen are made to labour by the tyranny of their priest-
hood ; and the first I mentioned was, that they are deprived
of that high and sanctifying privilege of Christianity, the cup
in the Lord's supper. I showed that the scripture plainly
commands that the laity as well as the clergy shall receive
the cup in that holy sacrament—that our Lord Jesus Christ,
in the institution of it, said, " Drink ye all of this,"—.,
and that, if this be gainsaid, on the ground that when he
spoke, only the ministers of the church were present, the
answer is, that the apostle Paul, addressing the whole church
of Corinth, manifestly including the laity, whose abuses he
reproves in the same context, says, "As oft as ye eat of that
bread, and drink of that cup, ye do show the Lord's death
until he come." It is impossible to get rid of this scriptural
testimony to the fact, that the laity in the primitive church
not only did eat of that bread, but also did drink of that cup.
(Hear.) When we refer farther—which we do by courtesy,
for the Scripture is enough for us—to the records of anti-
quity, we find them as entirely against the Romish practice
as the language of the Bible is. We find on this point the
council of Constance self-condemned by the language pre-
facing her own decrees. The council of Constance contains
this passage in one of her decrees :—" Licet Christus, &c.—
Although Christ, after his supper, instituted and administered
this venerable sacrament under both kinds ; although in the
primitive church this sacrament was received by the faithful
under both kinds—non obstante ; yet all this notwithstand-
ing, this custom, for the avoiding of scandals (to which the
primitive church was as obnoxious as the present is), was,
upon just reason brought in, that laics should receive only
under one kind." The council of Constance was held in the
year 1414. It recites, as a matter of fact, Christ commanded
the receiving of the sacrament in both kinds : it admits as a
matter of fact, that the primitive church did receive it in
both kinds ; yet it decrees, for a just reason, that the laity
shall receive only in one kind. The just reason, however,
is nowhere given. (Hear.) I advanced this on the occasion
referred to, and I find it thus treated in one of the publica-
tions of this town :—" The reverend gentleman said, he took
his stand as the advocate of millions of his poor fellow-
countrymen, who had been deprived of their rights. The
first of these rights which he named was that of ' receiving
the cup in the supper of the Lord,' and of this, he contended
at great length, the millions had been deprived ' by the
tyranny of an anti-Christian priesthood. He forgets that,
according to his own charitable notions, both bread and cup,
as taken and received by Roman Catholics, are ' damnable
and idolatrous ;' but consistency is not one of his virtues.'
This is the whole of the comment ! What immediately fol-
lows is on another subject. Here is a grave writer,
an enlightener of the minds of the liberal party in
Liverpool, a controversialist for the faith ! He does not
deny that Christ instituted the sacrament in both kinds;
he does not deny that the primitive church received it
in both kinds ; he does not deny that the Council of
Constance is self-condemned by its own decrees ; he
cannot deny any of those decrees : what, then, does he do ?
He falls back on my principles ! (Hear.) It is very conve-
nient for him to take my principles when they suit him ; and
because on another ground we charge the Church of Rome
with corrupting the sacraments, he says it is inconsistent to
censure them for riot giving what they have corrupted. Be-
cause they have corrupted it, we are not to find fault with
them for mutilating it also. (Hear.) The worse they have
made it, the less the people should have. It is as if the
scribe had said, "Why, Mr. M'Neile, do you not hold it
idolatry to take it at all ? Should you not, therefore, be glad
that they have only one half an idolatry instead of a whole
one ?" (Cheers, and laughter.) This is the whole of the at-
tempt to turn this statement, made by the chief and feather
of the Liberals of Liverpool ! (Hear.) The succeeding
point he introduces thus : ' The next breach of right which
he denounced was the saying of prayers in Latin." ' Yes, I
said that our poor Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen are
deprived by their priesthood of the blessed privilege of the
worship of God in their own language. There is, at the very
least, a humanizing power connected with worship, with an
assembled crowd of worshippers. I have seen the effect of
it. I have stood and looked at a multitude of our poor Pro-
testant fellow-countrymen assembled in a place of worship.
I have seen men who knew but little how to read, and
had little time to cultivate that knowledge, but who
enjoyed the repetition of the words that had' become
familiar with their ears—l have seen their lips moving
in unison with the responses and sometimes with the
prayers of our own church service ; and I cannot but
believe, that whether there was real, vital religion connected
with the exercise or not, there was at least a softening power,
a humanizing influence, a friendly, kindly intercourse carried
on amongst the assembled multitude, while all were using
with intelligence the same language in their addresses to their
God. (Hear, hear.) Now, of even this the poor Roman
Catholic is deprived. The worship of his God is carried on
in a language he does not understand. The prayers are read
in Latin. And how many of our poor Roman catholic
fellow-countrymen in England or Ireland understand Latin ?
(Hear.) They are placed in the position of barbarians, with
respect to the minister. They cannot intelligently say
" Amen" to his giving of thanks. This, as regards God, is
profane working, and as it regards man, it is the fostering
of superstition, the bare opus operatum, to be rested in as a
meritorious performance, and has not even the redeeming
quality in the process, of a humanizing influence over the
worshippers, such as is felt in the use of a language they
understand. I say it is a great hardship. I know not how
you are disposed to feel it, but I trust the meeting will enter
, into the hardship of it, and that every one of us, as we
enjoy the blessed service of our God in the language
in which we were born, will feel for our neighbours, who, if
they go to their place of worship, are compelled to listen to
Latin prayers, Latin gospels, Latin epistles, and Latin masses.
They know not a word the priest says, except in his address
Ito them from what he calls his altar. His sermon, indeed,
is not in Latin always ; but his prayers are. Now here is
what our scribe says in this respect :—" The next breach of
right which he denounced was the saying of prayers in Latin,
and this he put as if all the prayers and services of the Roman
catholics were said in that language." And services. Look
at the dishonesty. I never said all the services, if services be
understood to include the sermon. I did say the prayers,
and he knew it ; and if he is in the habit of attending a mass-
house, he never heard an English prayer. But he goes on:—
" It would not have suited him to state that every Roman
catholic attending at mass, has, or may have, a missal con-
taining every word said by the officiating priest,—the English
on one side of the page and the Latin on the other." He has
.a book which contains the English on the one side, which he
knows, and the Latin on the other side, which he does not know.
It contains every word the priest says. Very true, but it is
the Latin words that he says, not one of which the man
knows. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Independently of this,
it applies only to those persons who know how to
read, and it has no manner of reference to the tens of thou-
sands of my poor fellow-countrymen, who do not know a
single letter. (Cheers.) But more than this, the plea put
forward by the Papal Church for the use of Latin, is that it
is the only perfect, infallible, immutable language ; and yet
it seems they can have it fully expressed in English. (Ap-
plause.) Every word in English as well as in Latin I If this
be true, it contains an acknowledgement that the use of Latin
is wholly unnecessary. (Hear.) I do day, therefore, that