The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1846-06-09 00:00:00

FINANCE COMMITTEE

Sir THOMAS BRANCKER moved the confirmation of
the proceedings of the Finance Committee, and that the
salary of Mr. Wm. Fox, chief clerk in the Surveyor's
office, be increased from £2OO to £250 per annum, the
consideration of which was postponed at the last monthly
Council, pursuant to the standing orders. He also moved
that the lease of certain premises in Lime-street be granted
to Mr. Gardner. The Finance Committee. he said, had
investigated the particulars connected with the renewal of
the lease, and they bad arrived at the conclusion that no
party would be aggrieved thereby. It had always been
the policy of the Otuacil to renew leases except on spec;al
grounds, such as where the premises might be wanted for
some public improvement. His own opinion was decidedly
in favour of renewing Mr. Gardner's lease, and it was that
practice vr ich for years bad given the lessees under the
Corporation great faith in their tenure.
Some conversation then ensued respecting the con-
struction of a marine parade for the recreation of the
inhabitants of Toxteth-park. Mr. MANN opened the
subject, and explanations having been given by Sir Thos.
BRANCKER, Mr. BRADLEY MOORE, and the Tows-
CLERK, the subject dropped.
Mr. PROCTER expressed his surprise that a report had
not as yet been presented, pointing out a new site for the
erection of a gaol, in lieu of that at Wavertree-hall.
Sir TwomAs BRANCKER said there was a resolution on
the books authorising the committee to look out for a site,
but it was a very difficult matter to find one,—so difficult
that pro- ably the report sought for by Mr. Procter would
not be presented for the next six months.

Mr. EIRKETT thought that, on a subject of such im-
mense importance, the Council would act with propriety
if they took time to consider and report.
Mr. EARLE urged that the report ought to be presented
at r‘s early a date as possible.
Mr. PROCTER gave notice of motion for the next day,
that the resolution to erect a gaol at Wavertree-hall be
rescinded, and for the appointment of a committee to lay
out the erounds at the hall.

Mr. HortsFA mt. called attention to the unfinished state
of the Customhouse. There was a great want, he said,
of a statue on the dome. He cared not whether they put
Neptune or the chairman of the Finance Committee—
(laughter)—or any body else, but a statue there ought
to be.

Mr. EARLE objected to the renewal of Mr. Gardner's
lease, in Lime-street. He said it would be a most un-
sightly thing to have a livery stable, about which there
was always something slovenly, immediately opposite St.
George's-hall, one of the most magnificent buildings he
had ever seen.
Mr. HIGGINS observed that it was not intended to con-
tinue it as a livery stable.
After a few snarls from Mr. EARLE, to which Mr.
HiaoiNs replied, Mr. RATHBONE opposed the renewal
of the lease.

After which, the Council divided, when there appeared ;
—For the renewal of the lease, 23; against it, 24.
The renewal was accordingly refused ; and the pro-
ceedings of the Finance Committee were confirmed.

DOCK COMMITTEE-AN EXTRAORINARY SCENE

The proceedings of the Dock Committee comprised the
consideration of clauses introduced into the Dock Bill
now before parliament.
For the purpose of considering these clauses the Council
resolved itself into a committee.
The TOWN-CLERK read two clauses relative to the Duke
of Bridgewater's trusts.
Mr. CRALMER said a number of tradesmen felt them-
selves aggrieved by the Dock Committee not offering their
works to public competition. He contended that the
master tradesmen of the town ought to have opportunities
afforded them to enter upon the dock works.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORS replied that a great portion of
the works were done by public contract. He then ex-
plained the nature of the clauses read by the Town-clerk.
One of the clauses was to save the rights of the Duke of
Bridgewater's trustees. The other was, that during the
time the alterations are being made in the Manchester
basin, temporary accommodation should be afforded to the
Duke's trustees, until such time as they could go back
again to the Manchester basin.

Mr. Eva:vs opposed the passing of these clauses, and
said that if passed they would involve a considerable ex-
pense, about £13,000 a-year. He believed that the scheme
relative to the Manchester basin, and various other schemes
of the Dock Committee, were introduced merely for the
purpose of spiteing the people of Birkenhead, who were
supposed to have Ind some designs upon the Manchester
basin. lle moved that that part of the plan which re-
lated to the alterations in the Manchester basin be struck
out.

Mr. STEWART agreed with Mr. Evans that the utility
was not equivalent to the cost of the plan.
Mr. AIKIN thought the wisest course now to pursue
was, to withdraw the bill altogether, and not to proceed
any further with a measure so crude and ill-digested.
Mr. JAMES LAWRENCE said it was very dangerous to
pass such a scheme as the present, without the Council
having some previous intimation of it.

Mr. EARLE asked whether there was any probability of
the bill being passed ? for if there was not, there was nl
use in spending the public money in a fruitless contest in
parliament. £13,000 had been already spent, within a
very short time, in paying men with wigs and gowns upon
them to walk about the lobbies of the House of Com-
mons.

Mr. EVANS said he was prepared with some overwhelm-
ing arguments in favour of the withdrawal of the bill.

-Mr:BRAMLEY-MOORE agreed to postpone the clauses
for the present. Mr. Moore then referred at considerable
length to the clauses which it was proposed to introduce
before the Lords, and referred to certain evidence which
had been given before the committee of the Lords, and
argued that the Dock Trustees were bound to adhere to
the contract entered into with the warehouse-owners, to
which Mr. Evans was a party, with respect to the erection
of warehouses on the dock quays, quoting the fact, that
on Nlr. Gladstone being asked before the Parliamentary
Committee whether he considered that contract binding
on the parties in the present day, the answer returned was
" undeniably so." In this portion of his remarks he was
interrupted by Mr. Evans asking, " Do you quote from
the short-hand writer's notes ?" in reply to which Mr.
Bramley-Moore appealed to Mr. Mann whether it was
not so, and received that gentleman's confirmation of the
exact words. Mr. Moore then continued to state that
a great deal of abuse had been indulged in towards
the Dock Committee, and that their want of sincerity
and faith had been called in question. Mr. Mann, for
instance, had been asked in the Lords Committee if he
was sincere. But was there, asked Mr. Moore, a man upon
the Dock Committee who would say one thing and mean
another ? There were some, he believed, who entertained
the notion that the sincerity of the Dock Committee had
not been diminished but improved within the last six
months. Mr. Evans slated before the Lords that the
acreage and tonnage had gone hand in hand; that the
acreage had mo►e than kept pace with the tonnage, and
that he anticipated a considerable decline in the tonnage
of the port of Liverpool.

NI r. EVANS said he must positively demur, not that he
took exception to the words, but that he demurred to any
evidence of that sort going for a fact, unless the docu-
ments on which it was founded were produced.
The MAYOR—You are out; of order, sir. Your turn
for reply will come afterwards.
Mr. MOORE.—I am responsible for what I say.
Mr. EVANS.—I am glad to hear it.
Mr. MOORE.—At your service, sir.

The MAYOR, who during the utterance of this dialogue.
had been talking to some member of the Council, had
his attention drawn to its significance by Mr. Alderman
Turner, and, amidst a scene of considerable confusion
and excitement, endeavored to bring about an explanation
between the two gentlemen, and to exact a pledge that
no►hing of a personally hostile character was contem-
plated by either, in the midst of which

Mr. E'VANS rose and said—l take great blame to my-
self for having allowed some observations of Mr. Moore
to pass on a former occasion ; but I now say that, so far
as I am concerned, I leave the sincerity of the Dock
Committee in the hands of the public. I have no ob-
jection to have my character collated with that of the
Dock Committee, or with the chairman of the Dock
Committee, (uproar.) Therefore I treat his remark with
the contempt and scorn it deserves, (loud cries of order,
order, chair, chair.) It is false ! (tremendous uproar,
and renewed cries of order and chair.)
The MAYOR here insisted upon a retractation of the
language used, in which he was supported by Mr. Rath-
bone and other members, who urged Mr. Evans to with-
draw his improper expression, while Mr. H. Hornby and
Mr. Aikin urged that he could not do so until Mr. Moore
1 1

'vans was no

Ily hi bis remark

Mr. Moore repeated what he did
and urged that it was not for him to be answPrab!e if

Mr. Evans chose to appropriate it to himself. Again a
considerable amount of excitement was displayed, Mr.
Evans's friends contending that in saying that if Mr.

Moore's hinguage did not apply to him he withdrew the
expression, and the Mayor, supported by the majority of
the Council, contending that this was not a satisfactory
declaration. Both gentlemen were then appealed to and
required to declare distinctly that the quarrel shoulel go
no further ; and the Mayor declared his resolution to

keep the peace.
The magistrates clerks were here sent for.

June 9, 1846.

The MAYOR.—If the clerks once come in, I shall not
take any apology from either gentleman ; so that there is
a very short time now for them to decide.

Sir THOMAS BRANCKER.—The Mayor, as a magis•
trate, cannot certainly permit them to leave the room
without the assurance being given. I hope both of them
will think better of it, before the Mayor is compelled ta
bind them over. Let them both stand upy and put an end
to this unseemly discussion. (Lour cries of "Hear.")
Mr. MOORE.—I think I responded to that so far as I
am concerned.

Sir THOMAS BRANCKER.--Why not both stand up
together. (Hear.)
A pause ensued, during which both Mr. Moore and Mr.
Evans were surrounded by, and in consultation with seve-
ral of their friends.

At length, Mr. EVANS rose, and amid breathless
silence, said—Mr. Mayor, under the circumstances of the
case—the coercion that has been applied, and the time
that must elapse before the coercion could be removed,
and also the belief which I have the sanction of a number
of my friends for entertaining, that I have placed myself
in an improper situation, I will give the same assurance
which has been g►ven by Mr. Moore, that I will origi-
nate nothing. (Hear, hear.)

,
This assurance was deemed satisfactory by the Council,
and the scene, which was of a very exciting nature
throughout, ended.

Mr: BRA-M
Lay-MOORE then said be would reserve any
further remarks he had to make until the close of the de-
bate, and moved that the Dock Committee should be
authorised to resist the introduction of the two clauses
which had been alluded to.
Mr. MOLYNEUX seconded the motion.

Mr. EVANS then commenceTaloni-harangue which,
after the exciting scene just ended, produced on the Coun-
cil all the effects of a soporific. After an allusion to op-
position given to the bill from various parties, Mr. Evans,
in reference to the compact, observed that whatever obli-
gations these men might have in their Corporate or Dock
Committee characters, out of doors, and not acting on
public grounds, he considered they were quite released
from all these circumstances. He looked upon it that it
was competent for every merchant and manufacturer to
take up and protest against such restrictions which were
received, for which no kind of equivalent was given. In
law, it is a well known axiom, that a transfer of right of
proper_ty, without a valuable consideration, was not bind-
ing. What had the warehouse owners given them for
withholding from them the quays, which were worth '..E15
a square yard, and which, if they had been sold, would
have cleared off the dock debts, and relieved the port of
Liverpool from all port charges. He concluded by
moving, " That the present bill be withdrawn in order
to afford this Council an opportunity of more maturely
considering the plans, and agreeing upon such a bill as
shall appear to meet the exigencies of the port."
Mr. H. HORN BY seconded the resolution.

After a few words from Mr. BIRKETT, in favour of pre-
serving the compact inviolate,

ORSFA LL remarked that much of this discussion
on the general principle of the bill was out of order. ail• it
had already been affirmed by the Council. (Hear.) He
was surprised t ) hear a lengthened discussion on the
clauses proposed to be introduced into the bill, because
any such interference, with an express agreement, affected
the honour of the Council. They were bound to carry
out honourably the terms of that compact, and, if they
went for powers to build warehouses en the existing dock
quays, the honour of the Council would be compromised.
Mr. 13irkett had alluded to the appointment of a com-
mittee to arrange the terms on which they were to go for
the act of the 4th of Victoria ; they were to get rid of the
opposition of the worehouse owners ; and in that commit-
tee a unanimous resolution was passed that a pledge should
be given, that, within a certain time, no application should
be made for powers to erect warehouses on the dock quays.
Mr. Horsfall then proceeded to quote the clause from the
act, and showed that the compact was then recorded. He
then proceeded :—This was not binding on the merchants
out of doors ; they were at liberty to take any course they
might think proper ; they were not parties to the com-
pact; but he regretted 'that Mr. Ripley, who was one of
the parties to that compact, should go up to London to
get inserti d into the bill such clauses as those now sub-
mitted to the Council. (Hear, hear.) He regretted still
more deeply that Mr. Evans, who was a member of the
Dock Committee at that time, and of the Council, and
also a member of the Special Committee; which ?mord=
mously agreed to the clause he had just read, approving of
the compact—(applause)---should go up to town to typoa
the bill framed with a due regard to that compact, and
which had been sanctioned both by the Dock Committee
and the Council. He could not understand how gentle,
men could act in their public capacity differently. to
what they would in private. If they did not deny the
existence of the compact, he could not imagine how they
could get over—how they could reconcile it to their coo'
sciences to act in a public concern in a way in which Oct
would scorn to act in their private capacity. (Applause.)
Mr. MANN expressed regret that Mr. Rendel bad been'
brought to give evidence in disparagement of the docks o', Liverpool. It was an excellent advertisement for the
Birkenhead Docks.
Mr. Alderman MooRE said he had heard a great deal
about the Birkenhead docks and the accommodation
there ' • but 180 of the acres there were in one dock, 804
those 180 acres would give no quay space compared with
the quay space in the Liverpool docks. But however
that was, he was legislating there for the interests of Li'
verpool, and had the interests of Liverpool solely in vie'.
It was perfectly immaterial to him whether they were
making 180 acres or 180,000 acres in Birkenhead. The
more they attempted to do there, the greater the stimulus
ought to be for the Dock Committee. He had no private
interest to serve—no private passions to gratify—nothing
to urge him but the interests of the town of Liverpool,
and it was his opinion that in promoting dock extension
in Liverpool he was promoting the interest of the tow!!!
and when the opportunity should arise of having doe,"
warehouses, he believed they would add to the prosperit:
of the town ; but he felt they were not in a position to a,_
that at present beyond the fourth of Victoria. In code:
to show the interest be took in the dock warehouses, b,
might state that he wrote down from London on &id"'
requesting a gentleman to meet him on Saturday moan
ing, as early as possible, to state the point at issue es
the introduction of the clauses. He saw that gentleevalf
and talked the question over with him, in order to geld
the warehouse-owners, by meeting again, would or Wool
withdraw the restriction altogether. That was u,
dined. He could do nothing else but lay the matter ?„‘
fore them, and give them an opportunity of vvithdralfn
the opposition. It had been quoted to them from en,lis
of his previous statements, that the eighty acres 14,70 g
north end would accommodate two millions of tons, ulat
it was only fair and right that the council should be P,
in possession of the average acreage and tonnage of Li/ere
pool at stated periods of time. In 1815 they had 52 vend
of docks and basins; the tonnage was 709,849 tons; si.
the actual tonnage per acre during that period 134%,
tons. In 1825, there were seventy-one acres of (I°ee
and basins, the tonnage was 1,233,820, and the tonnage
per acre 17,200 tons. In 1835, there were ninetr°sed
acres of docks and basins, the tonnage bad incret_a
to 1,768,426, and the tonnage peracre had again incre.arn,
to 17,800 tons. In 1845, the docks and basins had the
creased to 120 acres ; the tonnage to 3,016,531. and,rea
tonnage per acre had all o increased, for they WI t baye
out 25,000 tons per acre. What, therefore,
%sired to
been the state of the docks when they were reel s
,
turn out so enormous an amount of tonnage-- it wa
five
times over what was turned out of the London docks, ac-
cording to their tonnage. But assuming
rest and
remain stationary, and all the new docks In Progress
s. 0
proposed to be now in actual operation, they the_
tonbuno',
stand in the same relative position of acreage ennd
the patr
that they did in 1815. They would the:chew'
Dock as about
tion they were in when the Prince's D
which he would
be made. There was one other fact
Notwithstanding the great 1.,'
state
without any comment.
crease of tonnage last year, amounting to 383,000 tonew
notwithstanding that enormous increase, unprecedeolb`tt
in the annals of the docks of any nation, up to last nigo
the 2d of June, the ncrease over last year, to the s°ool
time, had been 152,509 tons. He thought he need
say one wor more.
s tb6
Mr. EVAN S was again on his feet, ready to addree who
Council once more, but was stopped by the Mayorzlevee
took the votes for or against the amendment.
against
it,
.the tonnage to
H. Hornby, C. Robertson, J.
j.jatoe'
voted for the amendment, and twenty-six aga'l3
namely :
EYrei
For.—Messrs. W. Thornhill, W. Rathbone,...oter;
Evans, J. Aikin,
V. Higgins, W. Earle, Thomas Lloyd, Alderman
Lawrence. _ J.

Against.—Messrs. W. Atherton, Thomas 8111'
Brancker, R. B. B. H. Blundell, C. S. Middleton, ;1'
Tinne, R. S. Henderson, J. Stewart, T. Robins° ;Or
Royden, W. Birkett, J. IS Mood, J. Kilshaw, J• aotifh'
J. Parker, J. Booker, W. Mann. Aldermen—R;'‘o' v";
ton, Thomas B. Horsfall, J. H. Turner, A. Swair''s4,7. ,
S. Crook, J. BramlekMoore, E. Molyneus,
Bushby, and the Maor:
eOO
thafrb
Mr. Aricrx then proposed as a second amendit`ins "
.;10
that part relating to the Wapping docks and 1/8" of "-
widening of Salthouse Dock, and the alteratioo
Manchester Basin, be withdrawn for the present.
Mr. THOMAS LLOYD seconded the resolution. .000 J
The votes were then taken upon the second Ot.be
ment, when there appeared 8 for it and 27 agaitl,o or „ ',Ol
The votes were then taken on the confilras""ted
Dock Committee proceedings—twenty-three I"
'
the confirmation, and eight against it.
The proceedings of the committee were theref°reoB 6.00-
13
cfihr erns et
e Basin, w tshi n, which
tb
e
clerk and the solicitor to the dock trust.
The Council then adjourned.
exc
is eptiolnefot
to b
of the
preparedclause as
if; tpt,hee

l
eou
fixed
nR n r
council
ds
sS d
atui DantpuycAoet
upon
e11:07'
nao.fut
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do
encu part
ot
adoptc
rit
. ot
,oet
e 1 sr
and
5 t
0:: :016 t
could
sure
pressedT
to
01)
peao
ensure
sohn
ut
hope
rpt
ei
ep
such
uea
ete
that
hat e
toarnT
nt
ing business on the paper. It was twenty-
past eleven before a sufficient number of embers,
.1
The MArott complained of this detsntioth
ree rcer
tbrearnssianctfeudtuartetahse
time wouldthioaTei ethcUtn sb le the public bus:pricing r
ceedings. our°
The proceedings of the watch, improvement, c
marketslaw, and
~ committees were confirrued• clsing:.
. _ 1 r 0... ~, tOO

uye-jaw tor shortening tnc• L.,
cl erk
publicinformed the markets of the town was submitted, an(jould cope 01
t (nit'
operation on the first of Septembiir next. n
According to the proceedings of the educatioce
the folhwing was the average attendiin

chooli during the past month 574
550. The numbers on Use hocks are—Nurtn

a cot
MAYoR acknowledged the receipt Ofcing
ript7;l36
.
cation trorn the Rev. Rector Brooks, annOun
It ids
death of the organist of St. Peter's Church.
. -

I houses, mars' arefferrormedLtoontdi
A memo-T
T-- "" - ''''‘.°ll‘
oe health Ist iovfe
the n
thoavrthascsonao3.llo,