The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-09-07 00:00:00

FREEMEN'S ADMISSION FEE:-

The MAYOR said, the next subject on the list was a motion,
of which notice had been given, "That, on the next appliCe-
tion to parliament fora local act, the town-clerk be instructed
to insert in the bill a clause to empower the council to reduce
or entirely abolish the fees at present chargeable on the ad-
mission and enrolment of persons entitled to the freedoin of
the borough." Before Mr. Smith brought forward his motion,
he begged to state that any notice of that sort introduced into
a bill would be thrown out by Lord Shaftesbury in the Muse
of Lords, for he did not now allow any thing to be introduced
into a bill that was not directly to the purpose for Which the
act was sought. He mentioned that, that they might not
attempt what was impracticable.
Mr. Councillor SMITH said he had no objection to-leave
the onus of throwing it out on Lord Shaftesbury ; he should
proceed with his motion. In rising to-bring forward the pro-
position, of which he had given notice, it was neither his wish
nor intention to occupy their valuable time by any lengthened'
remarks on the subject. The cause which he wished to ad-
vocate was in itself so just and reasonable thatbe felt satisfied-
it required few, if any, observations from him, to induce the
members of that council to give it their cordial support. It
would, he apprehended, be readily admitted, when they bore
in mind that a vast majority of the persons at that moment
entitled to the freedom of the borough, were individuals in
humble life, and of limited means, that the fees LW- present
demanded from them on admission were both unreasonable
and exorbitant. The legislature, no doubt, veiwitig the mat-'
ter in that light, had recently passed an act, abolishing the
stamp duty of one pound, heretofore chargeable on ,the ad-
mission of persons entitled to the-freedom of cities and-bo-
roughs in England and Wales; and now it only remained
for them, so far as Liverpool was concerned, to carry out the-
, wise and politic intentions of parliament, -by obtaining legal
powers to enable them either to forego the fees in foto, or at
least to reduce them to something like a moderate and equit-'
able standard. It might possibly be urged as a ground of
objection to his motion, that they had no right to entertain it,•
because, if carried into effect, it would tend to diminish the
revenues of the corporate estate, inasmuch as-the fees in ques
tion formed part and parcel of the borough fund. • But he
maintained there was no solidity in that argument. If there
were any portion of local taxation under their control which
pressed unequally or unfairly upon any one particular class
of the community, it was their bounden duty, as it oughtto be
their anxious desire, as representatives of the town et large,
to use every legal means in their power to remedy t he grie-
vance. Besides, if that objection were a valid one, they must
at once be prepared to admit that the extensive grants of .
land which had been made by the council within the last three
years, were altogether wrong and unjust in principle. ,The
land given for the site of St. George's Hall alone (to say new
thing of the Mecha'nics' Institution) would, if it were sold
to-morrow, for its fair value per square yard, bring more mo-
ney to the borough fund in one day, than the freemen's fees'
would produce for the next century to come. So much for
the strength and soundness of that objection. There iyas,
however, one all-sufficient and all-powerful. reason why t 1515
boon should be conceded. It would be the means of confer-
ring a great moral benefit upon the young men at present
entitled in the franchise. By abolishing the fees altogether,
or by fixing them at a comparatively moderate sum-, -such .Ss'
these individuals could afford conveniently to jay out of their!
own resources, they would spare them t he degrading necessity
of having to apply to other parties to take up their freedom
for them. They might talk of the corruption of the freemFn.
of Liverpool; but if any such did really exist, to this varY.
practice might its origin be traced, here were the first sets
of that corruption sown. He contended that by the adoption
of his proposal this demoralizing piactice would be enttrelY:
put an end to, and a spirit of independence infused-into lthe
minds of the freemen, which would induce them,-when
upbn to exercise the franchise, to do it honestly and con-
scientiously. And solely when a great moral object like this
was to be attained, be was not asking too much—he was not
unreasonable in calling upon the council that day to give
him their united and generous support. He would not de-
tain them longer, but at once proceed to move his resolutioi
—" That, on the next application to parliament- for a 1001 .
act, the town-clerk be instructed to insert in the bill a clause
to empower the council to reduce or entirely abolish the fees'
at present chargeable on the admission and enrolment of .per-
sons entitled to the freedom of the borough." a••
Mr. Councillor WA LMSLEY did not wish exactly to second
the motion, but to say- a few words on the subject. •
The M Avon was afraid it would be irregular, till they knew:.
whether the motion was seconded, and belore the Council.
Mr. Councillor CoorEn seconded the motion.. .
Mr. Councillor WALSISLEY said, -if the Council had power_
to remit the fee, he should be glad to support Mr. Smith °
motion, as it was a step towards the exteosion of the frauchisei
but if they went to the legislature for an enactment, they m
as
take a much wider range. If Mr. Smith would include iti his
motion the remission of the shilling on the household suffralie,
he should be very happy tc second it. In one ward in the
town no less than 120 persons had been disfranchised in.,con;
sequence of the omission of the registration shilling in the,t_atc,
in
notes, and if such were the case in one ward of the town, o",.1
great might it be in others. As far as Mr. Smith's ""of
went, he was satisfied it would have the best consideration
he
the Council; but, after what had been said by the mayor' h,
thought it could not be safely introduced into a
thought it would be better to introduce a bill for the sltec.: e.
purpose than to endanger another bill by inserting this nia`lid
Mr. Councillor SMITH had not the least objection to
ition
the shilling clause.—(Hear, hear.) The following
was then
he charge agorce(e)dnetoshbie nllimiradpeetroatnhne
t
overseers of the poor of the borough for inserting the nam
of householders in the borough list be disconnutiett"' , tier
M Q
r, Councillor . 1 ,_l, I,,4WREN umuoi,hohtelr'eTlArendpaaiir
CS..—lhd 1
understand

the electors of Liverpool are to be the only people who are to
be exempted from the shilling ?
Mr. Alderman RoeirisoN.--Yes.
Mr. Couuncillor G. H. LAWRENCE. Oh, surely, we are
wasting our time in urging that.
Mr. Alderman RoatrisoN.—l think the gentleman has for-
gotten we are praying to relieve the freemen of Liverpool
orgy?
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE.—But that goes into the borough
purse
Mr. Councillor WA LMSLEY said he should be very glad to
second the motion, with this addition, Mr. Cooper consenting
to withdraw his seconding.
Mr. MASON said the motion and amendment are certainly
perfectly well so far as they go, but I don't think they go far
enough.
Mr. Councillor W. C UR R lE.—There is no amendment.
Mr. Councillor MASON.—Then I will call it the compound
motion. (Hear and laughter.) It appears to me, Sir, that in
making an application of that kind to Parliament we should
very soon be resisted. 1 cannot, for a moment, suppose that
the government would recommend that measure as extend-
ing only to Liverpool, leaving out the other parts of the
country. First, with regard to the payment of the shilling
for registration, the motion does not include the payment of
taxes, which is much more obnoxious than the payment of
the shilling. But, looking at the whole, I shall consider it
my duty to propose an amendment, extending to the taxes as
well as to the shilling. (Great laughter.) It appears to we,
gentlemen, that the relinquishing of the shilling will furnish
no relief to the housholders. The great oppression appears
to me to be the payment of taxes ; and by taking off the
shilling we shall derive no benefit. I shall, therefore, beg to
propose a much more comprehensive clause than the one
contained in the motion:—(Continued laughter)—"'That a
committee be appointed to take into consideration the pro-
priety of petitioning both Houses of Parliament, on the
opening of the next session, for an act to enable the 'I own-
councils of the various corporate towns in England and
Wales to abolish the customary fees or charges payable on
the admission of freemen to their freedom; and also to repeal
those clauses in the parliamentary reform act, which impose
the payment of a shilling on the registration of electors, and
the payment of rates as a part of their qualification."
Mr. Councillor MoitEcaoFT seconded the amendment.

Mr. Alderman Evatis said, with regard to Mr. Mason's
motion, however much he approved of it, he could not con-
sider it as anything else but child's play with parliallient.
But as the question of removing any existing obstacle out of
the way of the freemen that he was decidedly opposed to ; in
the place of 20s he would put £lO in their way if he could do
it. Their admission under such circumstances was an
anomaly; it was against the principle of the £lO franchise.
And what were the merits of these freemen who were not
able to keep house, and who incurred none of the direct
taxes borne by society? What were their merits? He did
not wish to depreciate them lower than they were, but he
could only conceive that a body of freemen who had not the
right that others had by being £lO householders and the pay-
Meat of rates—he could only conceive them as living with
their relatives or in lodgings, and not qualified to exercise
lay judgment in the matter or else he believed a large num-
ber had been by their own dissolute lives rendered incapable
of keeping, house or any of those establishments that would
give them a legitimate right to vote. He could see no claim,
an merit whatever on their part that they should be made a
kind of electoral body at variance ,vlth the other institutions
tattle country and with the spirit of the reform bill, and to
the injury of others who are not freemen, but are equally lia-
ble as themselves to be balloted into the militia, and have as
much right to be called Englishmen as they have. Now un-
less they gave universal suffrage he could not conceive how
they could give to freemen, with the least regard to justice
and impartiality, any kind of facilities of that kind, and un-
questionably, if it were not founded in justice and propriety,
it was the last use they should make of the corporate revenue;
for if 'they remitted the corporate revenue it was equal to
giving it. Would one of those freemen if he got up in the
world and became an exporter of salt relinquish the remission
he had of the town dues? They (the freemen) had got advan-
tages that many would believe they had no right to, and they
(the council) would give them more and overlook the great
mass who were not freemen, and had no vote whatever. It was
i npossibleconsistently togive tooneWithout giving totheother.
And what was asked for them ? £l, not more. It was not,
looking at the average of life, more than Is. a-year. While
others had their £25 and £3O to pay, this man got off with
a shilling. It was said, that it would raise their characters;
that if they were not assisted, they had great difficulty in
Paying the admission. He was at a loss to know, when they
poked at the freemen, who were principally mechanics, how
they could not raise once in their lives the sum of £l. Look-
ing at that class, the lower they went, the more dependent
they found them, and the more venality there unquestionably
was. Now, in place of raising the characters of the freemen,
the corporation became a party to bribe them ; they supplied
£l, and the other was supplied by the wealthy men who
night, on the one or the other side like to give it ; but the
freeman would never be content with that £l, he would want
something after that. He said, " you have given me my
vete, but what will you give me for myself." (A laugh.)
Looking at the late conduct of the conservative leaders—let
there be no alarm about this, he was not going into this—in
the Lords, and even in the House of Commons, he was not
at all surprised that they should wish to give the freemen
every thing, because they 'had had the practical experience
of them. But could anything be more at variance to the
received principles of the conservative interest in England,
that men who had nothing, who owned nothing, should have
Tote at all ? Where was their stake in the country ? Ought
they not to give to property its due influence ? Yes, it was to
give property an undue influence, to give it to those who could
afford to enlist on either side, the vile, for party purposes.
Now, he did not scruple to say, if they examined into that
portion of the freemen who were not householders and had
not a right to vote in the direct manner, that they must be
reduced to acknowledge that they were precisely that class
that, if any were to be excluded froiii the right of voting, they-
Were they. Either their youth or their dissolute habits—for
there was no other way of accounting for their not having an
independence which would rank thein like citizens. He
could not by any rule of law—by what they (the council)
Owed to others or by what they (the freemen) claimed them-
'pelves see how far they could be justified in giving them any
kind of facility. But he put it to gentlemen what was this
other than a degree? Would they they introduce them to
the municipal voting ? It was all a degree of the same kind
to give them legislation in local matters without any respon-
-Bhility.. But if they began with this, how were they to resist
the claim after that of household suffrage for municipal pur-
poses

Mr. Councillor BoLTON.—Have you concluded with any
utotion?

Mr. Alderman EvAss.—l oppose the thing altogether.
Mr. Councillor Bourow quite concurred in what Mr. Ald.
Evans had said. He had ever been opposed to exclusive
privileges, whether in matters of opinion as to religion or
politics, or why one party in the country should be prejudiced
to the benefit of another, and he never could discover why
the apprentices of such men as the 'robins and the Law-
. fences should have privileges that were withheld from the
apprentices of the Bibbys and the Brocklebanks and others;
he thought it was an exceedingly unwarrantable and unjust
privilege. Besides if it were just to give it to a class of per-
sons Who were the accidental sons and apprentices of free-
men, what would it lead to? it would lead to universal
Suffrage, and he was not an advocate for universal suffrage.
He thought the right of voting very fairly laid on persons who
occupied houses in market towns and paid rates and taxes.
These men had a dear interest in the good government and
well being of the country. And who were the parties that
advocated these exclusive privileges ? Why those that would
sell the electors like cattle at the market. They had a very
expensive law appointment connected with that council, and
therefore it was right that they should take legal fees, for if
those were abolished they might also go to the Court of Re-
suests and abolish the fees on the taking out of summonses,
/.1!f- He would again ask on what ground would they take
'eV class of persons under their protection, and add to the
"wile ewhich e it was conceived they already unjustly pos-
attletV He ( Mr. Bolton) was a householder, and he would
to 4;4.! hie order, conceiv ng it to he that order which ought
ell toe
Mr. privileges.
atany
r;ouncillor SHAND would not trouble the council with
lions. P.4E14, for he mistake he liked neither of the mo-
thet the
,:ritttPs it was a of the last speaker in stating
of fr.. accidental children," and not the legal children,
founetin*lt, were freemen. ( Laughter.) He had generally
dreg hat he had a great deal of trouble in gettit47, his chil-
the the freedom. (Loud laughter.) He would move that
ema oertgin_,
; motion be adhered to as an amendment. He
thin •tittl the registration shilling to be totally a national
ifs with which they bad nothing to do.
think Bot.fos begged to explain. He did not
st e said the accidental children. He meant to say the
children
ttq
who were accidentally the suns of freemen. (Con-
tiN taught,,..)
14erman SIIIEL —There is no accident in it. (Much
wan
8134_ %Councillor W. Curtin& concurred with his friend Mr.
nd iq not liking either motion or amendment, nor yet the
7"ltittal motion; he would vote against all three. He thought
the ;aid be a most injudicious thing, after the intimation
si laYOrgitVe them at the commencement of the discus-
i 14, that now tying their hands to introduce some clause
Male future bill—a clause which had notng to do
f`" that bill; would be a most unwise proceed hiing. The
trLivrit-eleik would tell them that the introduction of ex-
it. "es matter into a bill was fatal to the bill itself. He
kl..erefore did say, that it would not he the part of prudent
ee„,"l--, of men who knew something of parliainentary pro-
at,-;":1118, to pass a resolution which any future council might
lik-edl4, to pledge themselves to the introduction of a clause
e; that into any future bill. He should therefore vote
lagadast it. But now, with respect to the freemen themselves,
t: Rot believe that this £1 was a matter of touch object.
believed, to use an offensive term, that this matter was
4e 4 u
P bugbear" on this occasion. He did not think
that the freemen who were worth considering, considered the,
th et all, He did think that young men, the very first thing
t4heY would do would be hv prudence and an abstaining from
alehouse t'o save such 'a
sum as to enable them to claim
the privilege. He believed that all the young freemen in
eth town who were worth caring about—that every young
ire u
It, who was of independent character and of moral worth,
lie ld
, make the obtaining of that privilege the dearest object
hats and would sacrifice the alehouse and the theatre,
H. every thing else, in order to obtain that right. (Hear.)
ft. thought he should do more for the independence of the
ethnemen by letting him see, that if he would be free he must
ta-Ctld On himself; and he thought the charge was a most
tiC",,,!zate charge; and that to take it off would be to dis-
egnthe equilibrium of the householders and freemen, to the
thei,4_,tage of the latter. He thought they should not do
'Pte_ in passing the motion, both for the sake of the
toe Beholders and the freemen themselves, and he should
Pwre vote against all the motions.
or tile Tow M•CLenk said he must state, from the experience
stet.,,* lest session, that the mayor was right in what he had
ceerl'; end if new matter were introduced into hills, the
tliC parliamentary officers took was to consider such
lapostt. billet as a new bill altogether, and charge their fees
I,,tvw tt accordingly. It was alio likely that the bill into
e,j,rh the clause might be introduced would he delayed by
th;ttional meetings in committees that would he required, and
am Probability was that the success of the bill itself would be
far (4,llReted. If, therefore, they intended to go to parliament
tiact",” Purpose, he would recommend them to make it a dis-
t/ the expense of which would lie £250.
rip CDDLAN said although the remarks made by Mr Cur-
a.; °lt the danger of clooging a bill with such a clause were
sheformidable, he did not allow them to influence him. He
hastki hate against the measure on the broad and extended
het and on the principle of correct Reform, and he could
had r't moment recognise the claims of a body of men who
is th ten absolutely foisted on the reformers of this country
that: Price paid for the reform bill. Without their agreeing to
hat!, the reform bill, with all its advantages,wuuld never have
clef gained, He felt, therefore, that these men had no just
seer the rights and privileges they now enjoyed, and when
ould have the opportunity to deprive them of those
tie did2es, it would be his duty to assist to attain that object.
wet, hot object to them because as some had stated, they
"lssolute, corrupt, and immoral. Ile regretted the lit state of that body; but he must say of them that any
tatiotfttlew placed in a similar situation, with similar temp-
were uwith similar education, with the incentives which
aeteehled to corruupt and influence their minds, would have
tuft ttrecisely as they have acted : they were not more iir-
ther,it. in other bodies of men would be under the same treat-
wer, Neither did he oppose them because they in general
(oPPosed to reform, for if they could be won over to them
vfl,e °
reformers) he would still oppose them, because the pia-
the Os which they possessed were nut enjoyed by others of
qt,,,:tin• rank in the same. community, which. as had been
to ee7eq by Abler. Evans, was an anomaly which ought not
tin a free country. !He opposed their having what the
that 4511 did not possess, horn the accidental circumstance
teett,eY were children of parents who possessed that which re-
tiaz. ',ID honour upon them, and nothing but the right of vo-
hiai tle could not consider them butes a portion of the coin-
'with yta that had the dangerous rivelege of universal suffage
Worst conselueuces conpnected with itvel
. f universal

suffrage were conceeded to the great mass of the community
it would have this good, that the great mass of persons en-
trusted with the right of voting would be so great that no
purse could reach them, so that they might to a great extent
cease to be corrupt. But the class of freemen was to a great
extent exposed to much greater temptations. They were
precisely of the rank and situation in life of those who would
be benefitted by universal suffrage, with the evil of their
numbers being numerically small, exposing them more par-
ticularly to temptation, and to be laid hold of for electioneer-
ing purposes; for he was sorry to say they most readily lent
their aid to whichever party would give the highest sum. He
opposed them as a body; he could not recognise them in the
state; they had no right to the privileges they enjoyed, and
yet they came to claim equality—to be of the same rank as
those whom the legistature had invested with the right of
voting—that class which paid the taxes, had a house over
their heads, an interest in the state, and contributed towards
its support. If the persons now seeking exemption from the
payment of the admission, &c., had really the laudable desire
to obtain enfranchisement, let them lay up against a rainy,
day. But he knew many who were not entitled to enfran-
chisement because they were not apprenticed to freemen,
who felt hurt, and justly so, that a portion of the workmen
of the same shop had privileges that they could not fairly
claim, and yet those that were excluded were better members
of society in general. Unless then they would agree to the
principle of universal suffrage, which he thought, in the pre-
sent state of society, an evil, he could not recognise that
body of men, and therefore he should oppose the motion.
Mr. WOOD inquired whether it was not true that they
were not at liberty to reduce the tolls or town dues if com-
plained of, without the consent of the creditors of the cor-
poration ?
The TowN-cLEnK said the tolls of the borough could not be
reduced without the consent of a majority of the bondholders
or the corporation.
Mr. WooD resumed.--But if a memorial from a particular
body of merchants was presented, praying for their reduction,
it would be attended to, while here the petition of a body of
men was disregarded because they happened to be the free-
men of Liverpool, and, were not in good odour in that room.
Mr. Alderman Evans had designated them as mere mechan-
ics, and as men of dissolute habits; he (Mr. Wood) had had
a good deal to do with electioneering matters, and he had
always found the lower class of freemen to be the most inde-
pendent in their character.—( Laughter.) And he never
gave a bribe, and never was asked for one by the lower class
of freemen in Liverpool, and that was saying a great deal.—
( Much laughter.) If they would refer back to the diserace-
ful election of Ewart and Denison, they would find that the
freemen that got the largest bribes were householders, paying
rents of £3O, £4O, £50,.#2.60, and £7O a-year. while the poor
man only got his £2. He thought the character given of the
freemen in that room was not what they deserved. He was
a freeman himself, and he should always vote as a freeman,
and not as a householder.

Mr. SHELL was exceedingly happy to hear that Lord
Shaftesbury had come to so wise a decision as to strike out
clauses introduced into bills different to the objects of the
bills. It was a wise conclusion, though come to at rather a
late period, but in that he resembled some gentlemen in that
room who advocated that motion. It was very singular that
the late corporation who were not required to go to any other
power to reduce the fees than themselves, that by them the
admission was not reduced; it was very singular when the
new corporation had come in, or when they were about to
come in, that the old corporation were so exceedingly gene-
rous in giving away that which did not belong to them, al-
though for a long period they had been in the habit of consi-
dering it as their own property. Now, he was inclined to
think the question was not then brought forward on its own
merits, for it was the custom with certain gentlemen to have
some particular question fur agitation in the months of Au-
gust or September, and he supposed this question of the free-
men was to be the cheral de hairline of present year. (" No,
no.") It was a strong one. The last gentleman who had
spoken said the freemen were the most independent set of
men. while the first gentleman began by advocating the cause
of those very humble in life, and of limited means, and went
on to advocate the reduction to a more equitable standard,
his object being to remove them from the degrading necessity
of obtaining by others the payment of the- '2os. fee. Now,
look at the independent men of the last speaker, by the first
speaker placed in the degrading position of which he had
spoken; and yet they were called upon to do more for these
men—to grant without the fees exemption from the payment
of town dues and market ,fulls, all which they could obtain
for twenty shillings—men who, nevertheless, were quite
willing.to place themselves in that " degrading situation."
They were called upon not to exercise a right in possession,
but to go and ask parliament to give them a certain act : but
before they did that they should have a strong case to war-
rant them in doing it, and no one would say that any case
had been made out at all to warrant the couLcil in taking a
single step for the purpose of the motion of Mr. Smith.
He did not think it necessary to take up much of the state-
ment of Mr Walmsley, that 'NU persons were excluded from
the register, by not paying the registration fee of one shilling.
He thought there must be a gross neglect somewhere, if not
a gross dereliction of duty. Ile spoke in the presence of
the town-clerk when he stated his opinion that the law made
no distinction between the one shilling and the poor-rates,
and if any officer had made any distinction it was a gross
violation of law, and that the council, as the protector of the
public rights, should look into, and have the man punished
who had been guilty of such a dereliction of duty.
Mr. WOOLLRIGHT, in allusion to the observation of Mr.
Wood, that the freemen were in bad odour in that room,
said, he wondered they had now got into such good odour
with a certain party, for no effort was made to reduce the fee
during the existence of the old corporation, when the free-
men had £1 to pay besides that from which they now sought
exemption. He further observed that, as the introduction
of a clause as desired into sonic bill might endanger that
bill itself, he thought it would be better to defer the motion
until sonic occasion arose, or some new bill was in project to
which it might be attached ? (" No.")
Mr. Councillor G. IL LAWRENCE did not wish it to go
forth to the public that the parish officers were guilty of gross
and reprehensible conduct, because certain parties had nut
paid the registration shilling. The parish officers could not
make them pay it if they did nut choose to pay it.
Mr. Alderman SnEli. begged to ask the Town-clerk if any
person had any right to make any distinction between the
shilling and the poor-rates?
TheM a You explained, that the statement was, that the
registration shilling had not been put in the tax bill.
Mr. Ald. SHEII. said that made his case much stronger.

.•
I\l r. Councillor H. LA W RENCE.—Why it is actually print-
ed in the bill. _

The TowN-CLEti K said the course of the collector would be
to demand one debt like the other ; both were debts to the
parish ! It was stated that in that particular ward the 101 l
did not contain the demand of the shilling; why he did not
know.

Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN said, though it was a late
hour of the day, and the subject had been amply discussed
already, yet the interest he felt in that question was so great
that he could not consent to give a silent vote. He regarded
it as a question of not merely local interest, for it involved a
great principle. He could not persuade himself to view this
questiun in the narrow view in which it had been presented
by the gentleman who moved the proposition ; for it was not
merely a question of finance—a question whether 20s. should
be paid to the borough fund, for if that were the only interest
that the question possessed it would not be worth a moment's
discussion. But he might remark on that view of the subject,
taking that alone—that the householder, in order to
obtain
hi*vote, must Occupy !itemises at least of the value of £lO a
year rent, when they considered that in addition he must pay
rates and taxes and h. every year to the end of his life, for
being registered, for which the freeman was called upon to
pay 20s. once in his life only, with no expense of house estab-
lishment, to talk of the gross hardship of the freemen was
absurd. But he disregarded that. The real question was,
should they or should they not, as a council, indicate and de-
clare their approval and complacent acquiescence in the free-
man's right of voting. If they remitted the payment of the
fee and gave them the enjoyment of freedom, they would de-
clare their approval of that mode of voting, and give it as
their public opinion that in the estimation of the council that
kind of franchise was wise and politic, and calculated to pro-
mote the true interests of the community. The reform bill
was introduced to parliament for the express purpose of
giving to property, as property, throughout the empire
its proper degree of influence and authority in the ma-
nagement of the affairs of the nation. With that view
was a provision made calculated to give to the £lO house-
holder that power which arises out of the franchise. It was
part of the original bill brought in by Lord John Russell,
that the freemen's rights to vote should come to a speedy de-
termination ; the persons in possession of the franchise
by freedom were to continue to retain it to the end of
their lives, but there were to be no new freedom. Whether
the inchoate rights were retained, he could not tell, but the
reform bill was intended to put an extinguisher on the right
of voting of freemen, and to establish one uniform, steady
qualification. That consisted of the payment of the rent and
taxes of premises of £lO a year value and one shilling a year
to liquidate the expense of the registration. They were
aware that the bill was thrown out of parliament on the trio-
tiou of a celebrated individual, and perhaps that motion was
one of the most celebrated acts of his life—he meant General
Gascoigne, who then represented this town. An appeal was
in consequence made to the country at large, and when par-
liament again assembled it was found necessary that the
freemen's right of voting, instead of being brought to a
speedy extinction, should be perpetuated as a matter of com-
promise, to secure the support or prevent the opposition of
sonic of the tories in the commons and the lords. The per-
petuation of the freemen's votes was the price paid for the
reform bill, and the elections which have taken 'dace since
the reform bill came into operation, have afforded unanswer-
able proof that the tories were wise in their generation when
they continued the freemen's right to vote. Look at those
towns where they had not the right of voting. There were
towns enfranchised by the reform bill in 'England returning
64 members. The boroughs in Scotland might be consi-
dered as standing in this respect in the same condition as
the newly enfranchised townsin England—that is, they were
free from any contamination of any right of voting. They
consisted of a pure household constituency of persons that
had a stake and interest in the welfare of the nation—and
whet was the consequence? Why, of those gd members 6-1
or 65 were reformers, or four to one liberals returned by free
constituencies; and if they extended their inquiry to the
kingdom at large, this fact came out, that those places, for
the most part, where the corrupt constituencies were retained
by the reform bill—the pot walloppers and scot and lot voters
—as distinguished from the individuals enfranchised liv the
new bill—the great majority of tory members of the House
of Commons at the present moment were sitting there in
despite of the household constituency. (Hear.) It would
not become him at that late hour to occupy much more of
their time, but the subject was an extremely interesting and
important one. It had been said that such a constituency as
that of which he had been speaking was venal and depen-
dent from its very position ; and again, it had been said that
it ought to be retained to give to property its proper
influence in the management of the affairs of the country.
There was a falsity in this. The great object of the Reform
Bill was to restore, to purify, to give to property its becoming
influence. Property ought to have its influence. It was a
a principle of the Whig government that property should
have its influence; nay, more, it was impossible to deprive it
of it. It was one of those principles which was imposed on
human beings by the great artificer of society that property
should have its influence. It 'revel. was the wish of the re-
form party to deprive property of its influence. But the
question which they had to consider was this—should they
sanction a pleasure which would not give property its legiti-
mate, but by an arrangement—the tendency of which was to
introduce venal and dependent voters—an undue and im-
proper influence. They were told that the influence of pro-
perty was that which the system he deprecated promoted.
Now look at county elections. There was in the country an
analogous class of voters—the £5O. tenanta at will. They
were a dependent class at the disposal of the owners of the
soil, merely men of straw. Now in the county constituency
there were men of that sort, and mark (lie result. With the
manufacturer there was in fact little or no power at all in the
decision of the county elections—he had no power contrasted
with the country squire, with perhaps his £2OOO. a year, who
was not always of the most intelligent class of gentlemen,
while the merchant, possessed perhaps of his £lOO,OOO. and
deeply interested in the welfare of the country, was limited
to a single vote. It was therefore property not as property,
but a particular kind of property, that directed those venal
dependent voters. (Hear, hear.) And it was beyond all
question that men who derived most advantage from the
power given to themselves by that class of men were those
who least regarded the dictates of honour, and principle, and
conscience in their conduct towards others. It was no slan-
der to say that the landlords controlled the vote of the tenant,
for the leading publications of the tories avow it. The
Quarterly Review, amongst others, admits that the landlord
has a right to coerce the tenant, but the e big party more or
less repudiates it. But why was it that this town did not
express in the House of Commons the same sentiments as in
that room? Why had they sent two tories to the House of
Cotnmons„while a large majority of that room were of con-
trary opinions? Why, because they had retained those
colTupt freemen who were able to put down the plain good

sense and enlightened principles of the constitueacy of this
town. (Hear, hear.) He would not detain them much
longer, but he thought both motions before the council were
objectionable, and—he begged Mr. Mason's pardon—were
extremely nonsensical—(laughter)—and would only cause
them to be laughed al. (Mr. CURRIE.—To be sure.) He
must confess he thought the rate-paying clauses ought to be
retained to check the constituency of the empire, and in
large towns, with the working of the reform bill, they might
get an admirable constituency to whom might safely be left
the great powers of the franchise. But he regretted that he
was obliged to feel with Mr. Coglan, that with the present
scale of education he could not advocate a more extended
franchise. If they were to break up the rate-paying clauses
they would gain nothing by it, and he hoped the council
would reject all the motions offered for their adoption. One
word more and he had clone. They must have observed the
commotion -excited throughout the country by immense as-
semblages, to which were delivered monstrous speeches on
universal suffrage, annual parliaments, and he did not know
what absurdities besides : great excitement had been occa-
sioned; and every man who regarded his country's welfare
must feel alarmed at those exhibitions, ,and the deplorable
ignorance there manifested. But to what were they at-
tributable? Why to the disappointment of the hopes and
expectations which the Reformed Parliament had occasioned.
And why had they been disappointed ? Whv the reason
was obvious. It was as clear as daylight. They had re-
tained to the freemen the right of voting in the towns, and
they had established the £5O tenants at will in the counties—
corrupt constituencies which had been forced upon mi-
nisters by the tories, and by whose aid the tories obstructed
the ministers in their course of legislation. It was those
constituencies that were the great source of dissatisfaction.
they were men to be bought—men who represented not their
own opinions, but the opinions of others, who played them
like counters—those were the men that excited the general
dissatisfaction—that prevented the progress of reform, and
perpetuated the contentions of Ireland, and enabled the
tory party to ride rampant over the rights and liberties of
the people. (Hear.) But the time was coming, and not far
distant, when throughout the country to remove these clauses
would be made a grand movement, and if they were re -
moved, he had no doubt of the good and satisfactory walk-
ing of the reform bill in all its parts, and of the enactment of
wise and prudent legislative measures. Establish one
uniform steady constituency—men of property,lwho had a
stake in The country, who would vote from the dictates of
their consciences, and not be bought and sold like cattle in
the market, as too many of the freemen were, and the ex-
isting evils would be remedied. With the-sentiments he had
expressed, he was therefore prepared to oppose the motions
which had been made, and he called upon the council to do
so too.

Mr. Councillor SMITH rose to reply.
The MAYOR said Mr. Smith had a right to reply on every
amendment.

Mr. Alderman ROBINSON.-All we hope for is that he will
not exercise that right.

Mr. Councillor SMITH said Mr. Robinson was pleased to
be very facetious. At this late hour of the day he should not
trouble the council with many observations. He merely wished
to observe that Mr. Mason bad called his (Mr. Smith's) mo-
tion, a "compound" one; it must be very evident to every
one in the council that his (Mr. Mason's) was a very simple
one to get rid of it altogether. Much had been said against
the old corporation, but not a single argument had been ad•
vanced to prove that a more liberal line of policy in the new
corporation would not be advisable. Mr. Currie had called
the motion a " bug-bear ;" he (Mr. Smith) thought he could
hardly have forgot the memorial presented by the freemen,
which had been the cause of his bringing forward the motion.
Mr. Shiel being at a loss to find any argument took up one
of his own, that this motion was to get up a case against the
Ist of November for electioneering purposes. Now it unfor-
tunately happened to the individuals whose cause he (Mr.
Smith) was advocating, that they were not municipal electors
at all; and so much for his argument.

Mr: Councillor CURKIE.—I said that the sum of £1 was
made into a great bug-bear.
The M A you then divided the council on the various amend-
ments, beginning with Mr. Mason's, which was lost by a
majority of 39 to- 4.—Majority, 35.
. .

The division was as follows:
For the amendment—Messrs. Mellor, Morecroft, Higgins,
and Mason.

Against the amendment—Messrs. J. Holmes, C. Logan,
R. Houghton, Thornhill, E. Harvey, W. Shand, W. Preston,
C. Itawdon, Holmes, Walmsley. Bolton, C. Birch, J. Wooll-
right, Bright, H. Hornby, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, Lassell,
Blackburn, Coglan, B. Segar, J. Smith, G. H. Lawrence,
Cropper,
.jun., F. Jordan, Currie, Rarnsden, Duncan • and
Aldermen Shiel, Booth, Benn, Leathom, C. H. Jones, Duncan;
T. Holt, Bulley, W. P. Freine, Barclay, Robinson, and the
Mayor.
Mr. SHAND then rose and said, after what they had beard
respecting the probable consequences of introducing a clause
into an act of parliament, it would be ridiculous to seek to
attain their object by such a step; he would, therefore, move
that the Town-clerk be directed to prepare a bill for the
abolishing of the fee on the admission of freemen, and that
the necessary steps be taken to secure its passing intoan act.
Mr COOPER seconded the resolution, which was lost on a
division by a majority of 38 to 5.

'l 'he division was as follows :
For the amendment—Messrs. Houghton, Shand, Cooper,
J. N. Wood, and G. H. Lawrence.
Against the amendment—Messrs. J. Holmes. C. Logan,
E. Harvey, W. Preston, C. Rawdon, H. Holmes, J. Mellor,
J. Walnisley, Bolton, Birch,l Wollright, Bright, Hornhv,
Lassen, Mmecroft, Higgins, Blackburn. Coglan, Mason, E.
Segar, J. Smith, Cropper, Jordan, Currie, Ramsden, Dun-
can; and Aldermen Shiel, Booth, Brown, Leathom, Jones,
Evans, Holt, Bulky, Freme, Barclay, Robinson, and the
Mavor.
The MAYOR then put the original motion, which was also
lost by a majority of 36 to 7.
The following was the division :
For the motion--Messrs. J. Holmes, Houghton, H.
Holmes, Wahnsley, Birch, Higgins, and J. Smith.
Against the motion—Messrs. Logan. Harvey, Shand,
Preston. Rawdon, Mellor, Bolton, Woollright, Bright,
Hornby, Cooper, Wood, Lassell, Morecroft, Blackburn,
Coglan, Mason, Segar, G. H. Lawrence, Cropper, Jordan,
Currie, Ramsden, and Duncan; Aldermen Shell, Booth,
Brown, Leathom, Jones, Evans, Holt, Bulky, Freme,
Barclay, and Robinson; and the mayor,
The council was then adjourned to the first Wednesday in
the next month.

THE FLORAL SHOW AT THE BOTANIC

GARDEN.

On Wednesday the second floral show of the season took
place at the Botanic Garden. The weather was most de-
lightful, and the consequence was a very full and fashionable
attendance of visitors. The flower show, as on former occa-
sions, was held under a long marquee at the top of the garden,
under which were long tables bearing the various floral and
horticultural productions of the season. We cannot praise
the flower show for it was meagre to a degree. With the ex-
ception of a few heaths, some very splendid dahlias, and a
few pans of pansies, there were positively no flowers remain.
ing worth looking at. There were several fine herbaceous
plants, brought out of the greenhouse, exhibited. The fruits.
however, were very beautiful in appearance, and we have no
doubt equally excellent in taste. The grapes exhibited were
exceedingly fine. Several baskets containing selections of
fruits, pears, plums, peaches, apricots, nectarines, &c. were
also very beautiful and gave forth a delicious fragrance.
The show of pines was only poor.
Stubbs' harmonicne airs.
ihband,e wasgail
gaily
dressed
attendanceress ed t h
rthrong,
and
playingyed
fountain,a
number of fine
the variegated scene of shrubs and flowers, and
water and
prim parterre; the mellowed music, and the joy
inspiring beams of an autumnal sun, made up for the meagre
exhibition of flowers, and rendered the promenade of the ex-
tensive garden delightful. The shrubs in the garden grow
hut slowly, and still have a very stunted appearance, though
the nakedness which was before observable is now much ob-
viated by thick underwood.
The following is a list of the prizes awarded :
The nurseryman's pan of Dahlias, containing 30 blooms,
Do. do. do. 15 do.
Do. do. do. 10 do.
Do. do. do. 5 do.
were all awarded to Mr. Thomas Davies, of Wavertree:
Amateurs' pan of 12 blooms, Mr. Dunking.
\un. Preston,uiataar,dae n
n( E,l
Do. 9 do. R. W. Preston, Esq.
Do. 6 do. Mr. Thos Harrison.
Do.
,t)hnei, P
4iCdaol.hctolltitdaaßta d R.
BotanicV G1:o
awardedra n-
The best four stove or greenhouse plants :—Cattleya Loddi-
tgheusis i)
i,Caraitetilieicyttas,Hfanr)rmis
t) stove
voar
Egreenhouseehrvs
urn n plantsro
f:r—u haonddo cAhsi:
n
tt
oo
Secondt iveo s
e ,Fuschia
ofs e)
urbrys't
lecsitf,r)ol .
rstawardedstore or
t o
greenhouse
rAelerist
h. Cropper,ous epl
cli'Prihaisrdsabiplants:—Erica epis-
tomia, Erica borricana, Authocersis viscosa, Kolosanthes
coscinea, awarded to the Earl of Derby.
Fourth best four stove or greenhouse plants:—Maxillaria
rufescens, Inscriptuin maximum, Gladiolus latiensis, and
Crinum Americanum, awarded to the Earl of Derby.
The best two stove
or greenhouse plants :—Epidendrum
novo, and Pinces euphrosvne, awarded to the Earl of
Derby.
Second best two stove or greenhouse plants :—Antholyza
Ethiopica, and Podalyria tyraxcifolia, awarded to Mrs.
Cropper.
Third best two stove or greenhouse plants :—Galardia
pieta, and Verbena Tweediana, awarded to Mrs. Cropper.
The best 0 rch idaceous plant:—CynochisLodigisii, awarded
to Charles Horsfall. Esq.
Second best ditto :—Cymbidium aloefolium, awarded to
William Smith, Esq.
Third best ditto :—Sercanthus paniculatus, awarded to
Charles Horsfall, Esq.
Fourth best ditto :—Eulophia Guinensis, awarded to Chas.
Horsfall, Esq.
Best basket of Plants, the Earl of Derby.
Second ditto. Isaac Hadwen, Esq.
Third ditto, Mrs. Cropper.
Best basket of cut Flowers, R. W. Preston, Esq.
Second ditto, the Earl of Derby.
Third ditto, Hugh Jones, Esq.
Best pan of Heartsease, Hugh Jones, Esq.
Second ditto, Henry Moss, Esq.
Best basket of Vegetables, C. S. Parker, Esq.
Second ditto, Thomas Walker.
Third ditto, Mrs. Cropper.
Fourth ditto, Win. Smith, Esq.
The following prizes, given by the Mayor of Liverpool,
as follows:
The best basket of Fruit, Hugh Jones, Esq.
Second ditto. Mrs. Cropper.
Third ditto, Wm. Smith, Esq.
The best Pines, John Ridgway, Esq.
The best Grapes, John Moss, Esq.
The best Melons, W. H. Goose.
EXTRA PRIZES.
Rodrignisa secunda, Charles Horsfall, Esq.
A collection of cape Orchidaceous plants, Mr. Skirving.
Coxcombs, Win. Smith, Esq.
Fuschia Fulgens, Mr. Skirving.
Caledonia Plums, John Moss, Esg.
Vegetable Marrow, Richard Ratlitione, Esq.
Basket of Plants, Thomas Bold, Esq.
Fairichilds Nectarine, Richard Willis, Esq.
Pan of Dahlias, Mrs. Cropper.
Ditto ditto, Mr. 'Thomas Harrison.

Curtious CONFESSION —ln the notice to correspondents
in Bentley this month, we find the following odd announce-
ment—"'they lie at our publishers."
ZOOLOGICAL GARDENS.—These gardens were very well
and fash;:nably attended on Tuesday evening, the entertain-
ments went off with great eclat. From the fineness of the
weather the visitors were enabled to enjoy to the fullest ex-
tent the various novelties prepared for their amusement.
PA It KGATE REGATTA.—The spirited gentlemen who have
❑ndertaken to promote this regatta, seem resolved to spare
neither trouble or expense in rendering it worthy of every
lover of aquatic rivalry. Preparations are already making by
the Owners of several crack gigs in Chester for a start to this
delightful watering place. The regatta is to "come off" on
Monday next, and we hear that our esteemed friend, E.
Watson Lloyd, Esq., will be commodore on the occasion.
One better qualified to fill the situation could not have been
chosen.—Chester Gazette.

T F. BOROUGH Ii.E.GISTIt A TION.-By an examination of the
lists to be submitted to the revising barristers, and which were
appended to the doors of the places of public worship on Sun-
day, in compliance with the act of parliament, we find them
to stand thus :

Radical objections to housekeepers. 272
Ditto ditto to freemen. 153

Radical claims.

26 425

Conservative objections to housekeepers 259
Ditto ditto to freemen
Conservative claims... .....30 259

THEATRE-ROYAL, LIVERPOOL.

FOR THE BENEFIT OF MR. F. VINING.
Second NV,iek of Mr. HARLEY.
Fifth Night of Mr. and Mrs. KEELEY, who are engagell
for a Fortnight.
Third Week of Mr. F. VINING.
rums present FRIDAY. Sept. 7, 1838, will be performed,.
Jl the popular. interesting Drama of
THE RENT DAY.

Bullfrog (first time here)..Mr. Harley, as originally per—
formed by him in London.
Martin Heywood Mr. F. Vining.
Polly Briggs Mrs. Keeley.
In the course of the Play, Mrs. Keeley will sing " Oh,
dear, how I long to be Married ; or, Mr. and Mrs. Slug."
Written by the late Isaac Pocock, Esq.
At the end of the Play, Mr. Harley will sing " The Hu-
mours of a Playhouse.
After which, the Musical Drama called
THE SWISS COTTAGE;
OR, WHY DON'T YOC MARRY?
Natz Tieck Mr. Keeley.
Max Mr. G. Horncastle.
Lizette Gierstein Mrs. Keeley.
To conclude with the Farce (not acted here these ten years)
called
_ _

ANIMAL MAGNETISM.
La Fleur.... Mr. Harley.. I Doctor Slr. Baker.
Marquis ....Mr. F. Vining. Lisette Mrs. Clarke.
Jeffery Mr. Keeley. Constance Mrs. 'Pellet.
On SATURDAY, the Comedy of SHE STOOPS TO
CONQUER. Young Marlow, Mr. F. Vining ' • Tony
Lumpkin, Mr. Harley ; Miss Hardeastle, Miss Faucit.—
After which (third time) the new Farce of the STRANGE
GENTLEMAN. The Strange Gentleman, Mr. Harley.—
To conclude with VALENTINE AND ORSON.