The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-10-30 00:00:00

DRAPERS' MEETING,

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL ,ST.4ND4RD.
Stu,—Through the medium of your useful paper, I wouldbeg to offer a few remarks relative to the intended meeting, of
the drapers. The deputation of assistants, in accordance with
one of the resolutions passed at the last general meeting, have
waited upon some of the principals who employ the gieatest
number of assistants, and it has been decided that the persons
so called on, ate to request a general meeting of the drapers,
in order to come to some definuearrangement respecting the
hours of closing. T
his meeting, it is known, is fixed fur Tues-
day evening, at the Clarendon-rooms; and I trust that, pre.
!nous to the meeting, sonic, or all of those who signed the re-
quisition, will meet together, in order to talk the matter over,
and to frame such resolutions as may be likely to suit the lau-
dable object that the assistants have in view. if they found
an establishment for their moral and intellectual improve-
ment, they will achieve a most noble mid praiseworty object,
and their good—their magnanimous example, should be imi-
tated throughout the wide sphere of the British dominions,
and in every civilized portion of the globe.
The main. question for the meeting of the employers will
be, whether or not they will consent to the hours as stated in
the memorial? If they do not consent to this, then the next
question will he, what other hours should be substituted? if
only one time of closing is to he observed throughout the year,
it cannot tie less than eight o'clock ; and even this hour will
be too late for any beneficial purpose. If there is to be a time
of closing in winter, and another time of closing in summer,
the hour should be seven o'clock in winter, and either eight
or nine o'clock in summer If they grant seven o'clock in
winter for only five months, then the hour of closing should
be eight o'clock during the other seven months. But, it they
think eight o'clock too early for summer, then they ought to
have o'clock for either seven or eight months, and nine
o'clock
sevencncklor the rest of the . e a r. These are my ideas on the
subject, and, I think, they are both reasonable and practica-
ble. 'the time has now come, when we must grant a fair al-
lowance to a reasonable.and just demand. It the cultivation
of the mind be worthy of th,' atientii;nof the public, their
voice will be strongly heard in behalf of the good cause of
the drapers' assistants, and every employer who has a proper
Mao (Aright anti vrogg, and wan WO§ iurgarttal Ulm

prejudiced view of this subject, will be convinced that his in
terest will not sufferby an undeviating observance of the pro,
posed hours.—Your's, A WOOLLEN DRAPER.
29th October, 1838.

MEETING OF THE CONSERVATIVE ELECTORS

OF SCOTLAND WARD.

Last evening a meeting of the conservative municipal elec-
tors of Scotland Ward, was held in the large room at Mus-
ker's Hotel, in Burlington-street, fur the purpose of hearing►
the declaration of the sentiments of Mr. Isaac Holmes, the
conservative candidate lot the ward. The meeting was an-
nounced to take place at eight o'clock, shortly after which
time the large room of the Hotel, capable of accommodating
about 290 persons, was filled, and on the motion of Mr. Teas-
dale, seconded by Mr. Archdale, Mr. Joseph Dunkeily was
unanimously appointed to the chair.
The CHAIRMAN said he bad been taken by surprise, and
was not prepared to address the meeting. They were met,
however, together for the purpose of hearing the sentiments
of the conservative candidate for the ward. He hoped that
Mr. Holmes would be listened to with attention; by which.
only could they prpperly weigh the sentiments of any
individual.

Mr. flossies was then introduced into the room, and re-
ceived with very great cheering.—He said,—Mr. Chairman
and gentlemen. since I last had the pleasure of seeing you
the canvass is completed, I may say, with the exception of a
very few individuals, and 1 have the pleasure to inform you,
gentlemen, the result is highly flattering.—(Cheers.) If we
do not win the election, gentlemen, it is now our own fault;
but you must use nevertheless, I assure you, your most strenu-
ous exertions for that object. Gentlemen, you have a wary
adversary to contend with; yo'i have an adversary who will
use every art and every cunning; for your opponents have
eve's-thing to gain, and everything to keep, and they will not
certainly lose anything if they can possibly avoid it. But,
gentlemen, you have a strong principle—a strong motive of
action; you, gentlemen, have to endeavour to overcome de-
ceit and cunning.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, three years
have only passed shire the feeling towards your opponents
was very different. What was at that time the public feeling
towards them? They were carried into the council almost
by acclamation. One would have thought that gratitude
alone would have caused them to look after the pub-
lic property and the public funds, but they have failed in
so doing. Gentlemen, since I last saw you, my opponent has
thought proper to publish au address. The address, I sup-
pose, some of you may have read; but with your leave I will
make a few comments upon it. I believe, when I last saw
you, I mentioned that I considered Mr. Lacon as a sort of
tool—as a sort of person brought forward merely to support
his party. A gentleman (whose name can be given) tole
me, after he saw Mr. Lacon's address, that he went to see
that gentleman, and said to him, "Pray what has brought
you out for Scotland ward ?" " Well," said he, " I dou't
know; I don't know a single soul among them; but, however,
it has been (Laughter.) Another gentleman went
to Mr. Lacnti, and asked him if his mind was made up on the
warehouse question? "No," said he. The answer was,
"my: property is at stake, and I cannot be satisfied with this
answer. I must know what your mind is!" " Well," said
he, "perhaps it will be made up when I get into the Council."
(Laughter.) That day I trust is fat distant.—( Loud cheers.)
Well, gentlemen. Mr. Lacon tells you, that be has not been
thrust upon this ward. I don't suppose that persons went to
his office in Water-street, and shouldered him into the
ward; I don't suppose that ; but what does he himself say in
the close of his address?—that he is scarcely known in the
ward.—(Cries of "oh.") It' he has not been thrust into the
ward, where has he come from? Many of us have lived a
long time in the town, but certainly, for iny own part, I never
heard of Mr. Lacon as a political character. From whence
can he come ? Perhaps he came under the protection of Dr.
Blackburn. I recollect asking once, when a child, where I
came from, and was told, out of a box. Perhaps Dr. Black-
burn, who, we know, is an accotteheur, has caught Mr. Lacon
front the clouds, and has had-hitn in a box.—(" Drug box,"
and laughter.) And Dr. Blackburn might have brought this
box to the Castle Inn, and put it on the table, and an embryo
Council man hops out.—(Loud laughter.) This really ap-
pears to me to be the only way in which he can have come,
since he has not been thrust upon you. I think, gentlemen,
Mr. Lacon seem; to insinuate that I have been using something
like deceit: it is certainly foreign to my character; deceit
might have been many and many a time of advantage to me
it' I would have used it. He says I am not Simon Pure, but
that he is the real Simon Pure. He says that I pretend to
be a reformer; but he assures you that he is a reformer and
no mistake. Why gentlemen, I tell you, 1 tell Mr. Lacon,
I tell the whole town if they could now hear me, I am the
reform candidate; I come forth on reform principles-1 come
forwards to reform the corporation. (Loud cheering.) The
members of the corporation, under the semblance of reform,
have insinuated themselves into the feelings and affections of
the people, and by that means were carried into the council,
and when they got there, they then began to show that they
were nut worthy to belong to any party. ("'True.") I trust,
gentlemen, we shall never let the matter rest till we have re-
formed them. (Hear, hear.) Therefore I say, I have said
I was a reformer in former times; but gentlemen, I have
seen reason to doubt the men who have now got into the
council.' Was I then to go hoodwinked, when I saw that by
deceit they had got me and others to support them? Ni).
gentlemen, when you are deceived you ought undoubtedly to
feel indignant, and you ought to hurl your indignation, if
possible, at those men who have acted so treacherously.
(Bravo.) There is then, gentlemen, a pretty sort of matter
in Mr. Lacon's address; he is stating about the duties of
councilmen; that they should go into the council-room with
no political bias; actually, when he, and the whole patty are
going there to support nothing but a political party. (Loud
cries of " hear, hear.") We really, gentlemen, are not thus
to be imposed upon. For my part 1 consider it a sort of
presbyterian net to catch stray votes, (loud cheers,) that is
certainly my feeling upon this subject. I think, gentlemen,
we have almost had sufficient of Mr. Lacon and his address.
I thought at one time of answering that addresss, but perhaps
this answer will satisfy you. (Cries of " Quite sufficient.")
In the course of my canvass, gentlemen, I have cer-
tainly met with some curious circumstances. I have
been received undoubtedly with the utmost politeness by
almost every one, but when I have mentioned the state of the
public accounts to some—when I have told them that in the
town-clerk's office, where Mr. Foster received for fees,
emoluments the sum of £8,500 per annum, and the present
town-clerk, by the account of the men now in the council,
was only to receive £2,300, yet, by some means or other,
£6,000 is not accounted for. (" Oh I ") Some of them
have said, "Why, we really cannot possibly think this; we
don't wish to hear it ; we cannot possibly think that the evi-
dence is sufficient to prove it." Why, gentlemen, it will
sometimes occur that the evidence will not be sufficient,
where the people don't like it. I recollect being once in
Ireland, and an Irishman who had just come over from
Connemara had been stealing some geese; Pat was taken
up, and two persons swore before the magistrates that they'
had seen him take these geese. Poor Pat hung down his
head and hail nothing to say; but his wife was present, and
women are ever ready with their tongues, and sometimes
with their wit. " Well," said the justice, " what do you say
to this evidence? These witnesses positively swear they
saw You steal these geese?" " Well," says the wife, "they
are great spalpeens; and what business had dhey to be
loolon' at Pat; an' if dhey had not bin looktn' Obey would
not have seen lin."—(A. laugh.) The justice was not satis-
tie I. "Well," said she, "if you are nut satisfied wad dhat,
let me go out, an' I'll bring twenty more witnesses to swear
Obey nicer did see him at all."—(Laughter.) Now, gentle-
men, in my canvass some of the voters have told me, without
you can bring positive proof of this, what business have you
to come forward and speak in this way of the corporation?
I tell you what 1 answered. 1 said, 1 want to get into the
council to get that proof. I have tried in the public papers
to get that proof, and they won't give it me; and I want now
to get into the council and insist on the proof. And if, gen-
tlemen, by your exertions I am sent there, 1 certainly will
insist on that proof.—(Cheers.) For what is now actually
the fact? Here we see men whose principal charge against
the late corporation was, " You give a salary to Mr. Foster
of about £7,000 per annum." I don't defend it. What is
now the case? if you were to give Mr. Radcliffe the fees
and einolutnents which Mr. Foster received, together with
the £lOO a year salary, you would save the town £2OOO
per atinutii. ( Hear, hear.) Because there is £l4OO hi
salaries for officers in the Town-clerks office alone, the ditties
of which Mr. Foster, and Mr. Statham did. (Cheers, and a
cry of " what is the deputy for ?") Our opponents have been
speaking to me for the last three years, ever since 1 voted fur
Mr. Horsfall, (for I was not then completely away), and
calling tne " rat, rat." Rat 1 said ; what is a rat ? It
goes into its hole, and there it sculks, and when it sees i s
opportunity it comes to plunder, and take what it can catch;
thine who stealthily do this, they are the rats. (Great cheei-
ing.) They fancied they were covered as it were, with re-
form, and no one was looking at them, and that they might
do just as they liked. (Hear.) A circumstance has occurred
in the council geutletuen, since we last met. I mean the
resignation of Mr. Birch. We may differ on some poiuta:
he has not seen so thoroughly through the things in the coun•
cif as myself, but he has seen sufficient to leave them. I am
sorry to say he has abandoned a post, wl.ich, in my opinion,
it would have been better fur him to have retained. If I had a
place in that council board, nothing could have pleased me
better than the co-operation of that high spirited, and honour-
able man. (" He's too honest for t hem!' ) 11 e has received
personable insult for the faithful discharge of his duty, and
his mind could not brook the insult. My opinion is, gentle-
men, that there is a sort of declaration given by every one
who is allowed to be a candidate on the reform interest, that
he is to act along with the rest, and from a highly honourable
feeling, Mr. Birch not being able any longer to act with
them, has left hem. (" No doubt of it.") If that is the
case, it is your duty, and the duty of every ward in the town
to send conservatives into the couticil—(cheers)—to send
independent men into that place. (Cheers.) Now, gentle-
men, I certainly feel rather sorry to mention some appoint-
ments that have taken place in the corporation. I am sorry to
mention the appointment of Mr. Roscoe; but it is my duty to
mention it, for I consider it was a job. He was appoirited
sergeant-at-mace, and then another was appointed to carry the
mace, and to do the duty for which he is to receive £3soper an.
(" Ah !") We heard during the investigation by the coin-
missionere, a great deal of Mr. Bourne's appointment as a
young attorney to the dock estate. In Mr. Foster, the Town
Clerk's office there was a Mr. Lowe, a gentleman well ac-
quainted with all the duties of that office; and that gentleman
offered to do the duties of Deputy Town Clerk at £3OO per an.
But no, that place was wanted for Mr. Crooke—what shall I
term him ? A sort of suckling of an attorney, just in that
state- as an attorney—when the gum begins to swell, but
the tooth does not appear. And as if they thought that was
not sufficient—as if they thought they had not thrust sufficient
of their pet bantlings into snug berths, they must send
another to be solicitor to the dock estate, and we have there
another youngster. ( Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, I have long
doubted the effect of Whiggery. I have observed its effects
now gentlemen for several years. When first my Lord
Grey became the Premier, with what exultation was he re-
ceived throughout the country. •But what was the effect of
Whiggerv? The Greylings were given places in all direc-
tions; Whigg.ery then Appeared in its true form. And what
find? do we now
.That Whiggery out of office is pure patriot-
ism, and in office is profusion and extravagance. (Cheers.)
Why then gentlemen, we have had enough of Whiggesa,
and it is now the duty of the country having seen its effects,
to support the constitution in its full integrity. (Gre'd
cheering.) Why, .
gentlemen, do they still talk of retorm?
When a vessel arrives safely into port,-do its owners wish '
to go out again to sea for file mere pleasure of buffeting the
waves and again coming into port ? Certainly not ; the
voyage is accomplished, and there the vessel ought to rest.
And when the Reform Bill was passed, reform ought then to
'have been at an end, It is therefore our duty now to pre-
serve the constitution as it was then established, and to admit
no further changes. Talk of reform! Why, would they go
and disfranchise Manchester and Leeds, and Birmingham
and Sheffield again, for the mere pleasure of keeping the
country in continual agitation and tumult ? These towns
have obtained the right of franchise, and there is au
end of it; and the very name of reform itself is now a trickery,
and made use of by those who talk about it .as-a means only
of keeping themselves in place and power, and keeping the
country its continual agitation.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I
have been long told that nay sentiments were the same as
your sentiments; sometimes I 'hisve been termed a Radical,
and sometimes a Tory; but, however, I have always said,
"call me what you will, but I will not be called a Whig."—
(Cheers.) Look, gentlemen, at the present situation of her
Majesty's Ministers; look at them in the [louse of Commons;
there they give one man a chain, and let him tie it round their
leg: that is Dan O'Conneil.—(Cheers.) Oh, I am saving
nothing about Mr. O'Connell; I am only telling you what
power he has, and in what way the present Ministers are
satisfied to let him keep that power. They would be sa-
tisfied to let any one have the same power, if it would be the
means of keeping them in power and place. If they advance.
too far, O'Connell gives them a pull, and they come back
again. I tell you what I think, Mr. O'Connell has more
601131 than the whole of them put together. Well, gentlemen,
their measure gets into the Lotds, and they let the Duke of
Wellingrou put a chain round thtiir tic anti if thiakt

they have have gone too far, he pulls the chain, and pulls
them back.—(Cheers.) And then they give Lord Brougham
a whip. and if he thinks they have not gone far enough, lee
comes and gives them a whip.—(Continued cheering.)
Where is the proud situation in which our great men formerly
appeared? Would they have held office on these terms?
No, they certainly would not; and I do say, gentlemen, the
sooner we get quit of a Ministry like this the better.—
(Cheers.) Gentlemen, it is wonderful to see how very deli-
cate some of them are when they talk of Toryism. How they
paint it! It was only the other day that Dr. Blackburn was
saying, "the Tories contended for domination, for ascendency,
for monopoly ;" why, pray then, gentlemen, what are the
Whig councillorscontending for ?—(Cheers.) After blaming
the former corporation for beingso exclusive, they themselves
have become also exclusive; and to the utmost of their power
they prevent anything like an independent man coming into
the corporation.—(Hear, hear.) I think Mr. Hornby said,
that the tories might now be called the "liberal" party, be-
cause they were now liberal in abuse. I think, gentlemen,
from what has occurred in this ward the liberals have cer-
tainly been plentiful of their abuse: but what meek, what
mild, what Christian characters they are according to their own
accounts ; but what do we find them?—(Hear. hear.) Why,
1 think, we find them quite the contrary.—(Cheers.) Gen-
tlemen, I am fearful I have trespassed long upon your time
and attention.—(" No, no.") lam sorry, gentlemen. I have
been so long, but I trust you will bear with me. The day,
gentlemen, for talking is now almost past; the day for work-
ing is now approaching. Ido beseech every one of you, I
entreat every one of you, I conjure every one of you, it you
value the interests of your town, not only in this ward, but
throughout the different wards, if possible, to return men who
will act independently, and who will sift corruption to the
very bottom.—(Great cheering.) At present there are but
few; and an independent men in the corporation has a great
deal to contend with; but I trust, if I am there, I shall not
fail to do my duty, and to express my sentiments in that
place.—( Hear, hear.) And 1 hope, gentlemen, in the other
wards they will return men who will come with a determina-
tion equally as fixed as myself, to do their duty in the town,
and to show up deceit and hypocrisy in their proper colours.
—(Great cheering) Gentlemen, I have something to in-
form you of; and perhaps, gentlemen, you will be truly
astonished and confounded at it. lam told that one of the
members of the-town-council for this ward, Mr. Thornhill,
has threatened to resign if I am elected.—(Shoutsof laughter,
and cries of "the sooner the better," "positively shocking,"
"horrid, horrid," end great merriment.) Pray, gentlemen,
who is this Mr. Thornhill? I have known him sometime,
and I have always thought him a living example of with how
little sense above a goose a man may be suffered to walk
abroad. He is, however, a harmless creature, without ca-
pacity to injure any of her Majesty 'e subjects but himself.
(Cheers and laughter.) This Mr Thornhill was scarcely
known as a public character before he was allowed to walk in
the shadow of Mr. Ewart. ("Good-bye to him," and laugh-
ter.) I think we have had enough of Mr. wart-,the re-
jected of Liverpool. the slighted of Kilkenny. the defeated
of Marvlebone. (Cheers.) All my promises to him are now
quit. I felt pity for him and his family that they should
spend so muchlnoney,- not one-tenth part of which ought to
have been spent in electioneering. But Mr. Thornhill was'
allowed to attend him as a stool. I recollect once, Mr.
Sheridan, when there was a sudden change of ministry, hu-
mourously remarking that the minister had been in such a
hurry to retire that he had actually left his sitting part behind
him. Now Ido think that Mr. Thornhill was allowed as a
sort of stool for Mr. Evart, on which he left his sitting part.
(Cheers and laughter.) I should not haie noticed his pre-
sumption, in saving that if I was elected he should retire, but
front its absurdity, and because I have not the least doubt
that three-fourths of the town of Liverpool would be glad to
hear of it. If he be sincere, and you exert yourselves, there
will be one less to oppose in the council. (Hear.) Gen-
tlemen, I certainly do hope, that on Thursday morning every
one will be at his post. (Hear, hear.) We are certain of
success if you will do your duty; and if you do your duty be-
fore the election, be assured, gentlemen, I will do mine after
it is over. (Mr. Holmes sat down amidst loud and reiterated
cheering.)
A gentleman from the conservative association office ex-
pressed his hope that Mr. Holmes would be triumphant, and
was convinced if he was, that he would be a strict economist
and a useful member of the council.
Mr. CHAS. HILL stated that the constables of the market
were employed to carry out the canvassing notes of Mr.
Lacon, and that this disgraceful perversion of the services of
public officers, for party purposes, ought to be sought into.
Several other gentlemen addressed the meeting, a vote of
thanks was moved to the Chairman, for bis services in the
chair, and the meeting broke up about half-past nine o'clock.