The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-12-21 00:00:00

and the reason the new one became the largest is, that the
new articles are of man, and man's works are always more
palatable to carnal men than God's. (Hear.) The new
creed is of man, and it is according to man ; the old creed is
of God, and it is not natural to man. The wonder is that so
many stand by it; the marvel is that there remains a man by
it—that it was not swept clean away, and the whole of
Christendom carried away with the new flood. But it was
the purpose of God ; and the gates of hell, and the assaults
of ungodly men could not prevail against his church. His
church stood upon the old rock, and maintained the Nicene
creed—fought for it, and bled for it, and burned for it, and
died for it in this land. (Cheers.) They bequeathed it to
us, and we stand upon it now ' • and we invite the followers
of the new to come to the old. We invite the followers of
the new creed of Pope Pius the Fourth to throw it away and take
the Nicene creed. If they would take to the old creed, which
they themselves do not deny to be older than the Popish
creed; if they would take the Nicene creed as containing
the only doctrines necessary for salvation, we might be all
one again ; but as long as they stand to these new articles of
Pius the Fourth, we never can be one : there is no peace
with Rome. (Tremendous cheering.) 1 can imagine a
member of that new church in this room at this moment
altogether astonished, and saying, " This is a new light to
put the matter in,—is it possible that this can be true ?"
(Hear, hear, and a laugh from some person at no great dis-
tance from the platform.) I can imagine such a person
grieved that the matter should be treated at all lightly ; and
if I address such a person I would say, any degree of lightness
in the illustration is not for want of kindly feelings towards
you, but merely to make the matter understood to unedu-
cated minds. It is simply a matter of kindness to those
I want to instruct, and who cannot understand abstract
language, that induces me to this ; and if in so doing I cause
laughter or wound the feelings of any one, I 'egret it; for I
am convinced that any fair, dispassionate, and candid Ro-
manist hearing that statement, will feel that he has been
deceived hitherto, and be willing to enquire further, and see
whether these things are so or not. (Hear.) Now, let inc
remind you, with regard to two or three of the new articles,
how important it is to lay fast hold of the oldest. By the
new articles the people are defrauded both in spiritual and
temporal things. (Hear, hear.) They are defrauded in
spiritual things because the wine in the Lord's Supper, which
the Lord commanded them to receive, is withheld from them.
I consider this a great fraud put upon the poor people who
belong to that church. Christ commanded his disciples to
drink of that cup ; and if they allege that when he said so
only his ministers were present, I answer that the inspired
apostle, St. Paul, said so, writing to the whole Church at
Corinth. In finding fault with some abuses in that church
in the administration of the Lord's Supper he says, " Some
of them were drunken, some of them left without any wine,
and some took as much that made themselves drunken."
It is clear, therefore, *that all the members of that church
received the wine, or the abuse which he rectifies could not
have arisen. (Hear, hear.) By the new creed the poor
people of the Romish persuasion are defrauded of that
blessing which Christ commanded. all his disciples to have.
Further, they are defrauded of ail intelligent participation in
their chief services ; they are taught to believe the mass the
chiefest of all their services ; and they never hear it in a lan-
guage they understand. There is no intelligence to the poor
people—the mass in any country ; for this reason, that there
are no people upon the face of the earth who speak Latin.
(Hear.) It has pleased God to make Latina dead language.
Greek is not a dead language, but Latin is a dead language ;
yet the new church fixes upon the only language that nobody
speaks, to have her chief service in it, that nobody should
understand. (Great applause.) This is another fraud upon
the people. (Hear.) I said they were defrauded in tempo-
ral things also, by the creed, and I will tell you how. Al-
mighty God has ordained that man shall live by the sweat of
his brow_; and he has said in one of his commandments,
" six days shalt thou labour and do all that thou hast to do ;"
therefore, a poor labouring man, who is blessed by Almighty
God with health, ought to have six days' labour a week—
" six days shalt thou l tbour," and lie is to be paid for his la-
bour. No man living has a right to stop him from labouring
six days to get six days' wages ; but the new creed—this new
creed which is only 300 years old—sets up so many saint
days upon which the people must not labour, and their task-
masters tell them by no means to labour upon saint days for
it is a mortal sin. They keep them idle upon saint days. If
there is but one in a week, the poor man can only have five
days' wages, and if two, lie can only get four; in many weeks
there are more than two, three, or four saint days, and the
poor people are thus defrauded of their wages because they
are kept, by this new superstition, from going about their
work. (Hear.) These are important practical things ; but
I shall refrain from enlarging more upon them, seeing there
are so many friends who are prepared to address you on this
occasion. One point only I will advert to, and that briefly.
I think some of you will expect I should say a few words
upon it. It has immediate reference to what is of high im-
portance to you and to your children—(hear, hear)—l mean
the scriptural education of your children. The ways of God
are very wonderful ; we are sometimes indebted for good con-
sequences to what was itself a mistake, and so it is here.
There was a report of certain proceedings which took place
in the Town-council of this town ; it was a very imperfect re-
port ; it conveyed, respecting some parties concerned, a very
erroneous impression. But it produced a powerful effect •,
it led to a strong expression of feeling in many places ; and
it has been attended with beneficial results. I congratulate
you upon the results; and I believe I may say to you, now
that there is very little doubt, speaking after the manner of
men, I should say there is no doubt, but that a true Protes-
tant system, with the authorised version of the Bible, and
that version alone, will be introduced into the corporation
schools of this town. (Great cheering.) I observe that some
of the advocates of a different system, who are not now in a
condition to give their opinions in the council, but who,
nevertheless, do feel a disposition to give an opinion still, are
preparing a charge of this kind. 1 see the groundwork of it laid
very cunningly, and I will apprise you of it before it comes out,
that you may know what to think of it when itdoes come. The
charge which is in preparation is this—that in rejecting the
Douay version from the schools, we are excluding the Bible.
I see, I say, this lodgmeut of the charge—that whereas they
were accused of keeping back the Bible, by putting the
authorized version out, we shall be accused of excluding the
Bible by putting the Douay version out. (Laughter.) It is
easy to laugh at that, but not easy to answer it. The answer
is this—the Douay version is not the Bible. What! does it
not contain a translation of the Scriptures? Yes, it does,
but it contains more—it contains notes gathered from the new
creed of Pope Pius IV. ; it contains notes involving all the
maxims of that novelty ; all the peculiarities of roinanism ;
aitd with these notes in it, we say it is not the Bible. As we
would say of a loaf mixed with arsenic it is not a loaf, it is a
loaf with poison mixed—it is not a loaf. The Douay version
is the Bible and falsehood mixed ; it is not the Bible, for the
Bible is truth alone. Therefore when we exclude the Douay
we are not excluding the Bible, but a version of a translation
of the Bible and Popish notes. We had the best of the argu-
ment all along, and the time is come when we are to have the
best of the fact: it is to go out, and the Irish extracts also.
(Loud cheers.) I believe I may tell you that all the Con-
servative members of the Education Committee are unani-
mous upon this point, and that their recommendation will be
submitted to the Council in due time. (Hear, hear.) Now
I must go back for a moment to apprise you of the nature of
the mistake that led to certain recent exhibitions of strong
feeling. It was supposed that all the gentlemenwho voted upon
the first day of this month against receiving the recommends-
, tion of the Education Committee, were in favour of some
modification of the semi-popish scheme. That was a mistake,
and I will tell you what the mistake arose in. It arose in the
fact that the Town Clerk's speech was not reported : the
Town Clerk, as the legal adviser of the Council, told them
they were not at liberty, in point of law, to rescind all the
regulations for the government of the schools without ap-
propriating others, for, thereby, they would be leaving the
schools for a month without any regulations at all. Upon
the legal advice of the Town Clerk some of our Conservative
friends voted in the majority, who are, nevertheless, as de-
termined as we are to have the schools Protestant. (Applause.)
I will do a friend of my own the justice to name him. I will
say this is precisely the case with Mr. Bushell, and that lie
in the Council that day made it perfectly clear that this was
his reason, but not one word of his speech was reported
upon that occasion. He and a few others lay under the im-
putation of having voted in a way and for a purpose which
they repudiated as honestly and fervently as we do. It is
only right that such an explanation should be made, and I am
happy to have an opportunity of making it among you who
are so deeply interested in the welfare of this cause. The
rev. gentleman then sat down amidst loud cheering.
Mr. LEATHERBARROW, Secretary io the society, then read
the annual report of the committee.
The Rev. W. FALLOON, of St. Jude's Church, rose
amidst loud cheers to move the first resolution, which pro-
posed that the report be adopted and printed, and the ap-
pointment of the annual officers. He said—l owe some apo-
logy to the meeting for occupying the first place this evening,
and thereby presuming to hold for a few moments a position
which would be better occupied by others ; but as this ar-
rangement was one made by others and not of my own choice,
I feel I cannot lay to myself the charge of presumption.
(Hear.) My Christian friends and protestant brethren, I take
the liberty of addressing you under two titles—Christians
and protestants—not that I would for a moment insinuate or
have you to think that there is or ought to be any essen-
tial difference between a genuine Protestant and a true
Christian. But for myself Ido not wish, in these days of
soft terms and Laodicean words, to lose sight of that good
old ancient name—that beacon of the glorious reformation—
the name of protestantism. (Cheers.) Though it has come
to sound harsh, and has been felt to be distasteful to the se-
mi-Popish palates of some of our Oxford divines in these
latter days, yet we cannot consent to part with it so easily
as that, believing, as we do, and firmly feeling that all
that is great, all that is holy, all that is venerable, is bound
up and intimately associatedlwith the struggles herein the
name of Protestantism was born. (Great cheers.) For, let
me ask you, what is great, if the cause of the living God is
not great ? What is holy, if that precious book, the law and
the testimony of the living God, which he hath given us as
a light to our feet, and a lamp to our paths, to direct us
to glory, because it testifies to us of Jesus, who is the only
way whereby any sinner can ascend to the bosom of his God
—what is holy, if that precious book is not holy ?—and what
is venerable, if old mother church—not the new church—
(hear, hear,)—bending with age, and full of years, that has
ever enshrined within her bosom, as a sacred ark, that holy
treasure, the charter of our salvation, the precious Scrip-
turess—what is wenerable, if she be not venerable ? (Loud
cheers.) And though that holy cause, and though that pre-
cious Bible, and though that venerable church existed many
hundred years before the name of Protestant, yet are we re-
solved to adhere and firmly to cleave to that right Christian
name which was given to the righteous cause when Luther
and the faithful ones of Germany stood sponsors, and when
it was so faithfully responded to by our Cranmers, and La-
timers, and itidleys, at home in England. (Renewed ap-
plause.) Why do I dwell on this word Protestant ? It
seems, perhaps, irrelevant to the point, but that my heart is
sickened and my soul moved within me when I find, as our
noble and excellent prelate once observed—" those sitting
in the reformers' seats are traducing the reformation." (Hear,
hear.) What Englishman does not feel himself insulted when
reading such a statement as met my eyes to-day in the co-
lumns of the LIVERPOOL STANDARD ? The source whence
it is derived is not given, and therefore I cannot authenticate
it ; and though names are stated, I shall not mention names,
because I do not wish to charge it home on any individual in
existence. The sentiments are these :
" I tell you plainly, that, for myself, I utterly reject and
anathemise the principle of Protestantism, as a heresy,
with all its forms, sects, or denominations. And if the church
of England should ever unhappily profess herselfto be a form
of Protestantism (which may God of his infinite mercy for-
bid!) then would I reject and anathemise the church of Eng-
land, and would separate myself from her immediately as
from a human sect, without giving Protestants the trouble
to procure my expulsion. In conclusion I once more pub-
licly profess myself a catholic, and a member of a catholic
church, and say anathema to the principle of Protestantism
(which I regard as identical with the principle of dissent)
and to all its forms, sects, and denominations, especially to
those of the Lutherans, Calvinists, and British and American
dissenters."

Now, though this be not authenticated, yet we have too much
reason to fear from other works which we have authenticated
that these are but more openly and manfully avowed senti-
ments—more openly declared and more boldly confessed sen-
timents—which sentiments are lurking deeply in the bosoms,
though unexpressed in the heart of the church of England,
of some of those who profess themselves to be members and
ministers of that church ? I grieve to read it, and my soul
is moved within me ; but I say that this person may read his
recantation as soon as he pleases of what he calls the heresy
of protestantism. (Hear, hear.) He has virtually renounced
all connexion with the established church according to her
doctrines, creeds, and liturgies, and the established church
disowns such an apostate. (Cheers.) I am free to confess
that I as cordially love the name of protestant as the writer
of this extract, whoever he be, seems to abhor and detest it

for while that name of protestant reminds me of those dark
days when the great cause of God was obscured and dimmed
by the corruptions and abominable idolatries of an Italian
heresy, and while again it reminds me that that book of God
was fettered and bound in chains, and kept back from free
circulation, and, like the great apostle St. Paul, who himself
wrote a great portion of it, was detained as a prisoner at
Rome—though it reminds me of those dark days, yet it re-
minds me of those glorious struggles which were then entered,
upon by those who stood on that rock to contend for the
faith once delivered to the saints, in the face of fire and fag-
got, maintaining their adherence to the principles of the word
of God, and determining to stand or fall with the Bible.
And while it reminds me of these things it also enkindles in
my bosom a fervent and an anxious prayer, that that same
system of anti-Christian error may never again be permitted
to obsure and dim the bright-shining of our gospel candle-
stick, or ever again be permitted to meddle in any way with
our national freedom. If David, the king of Israel, in an
ebullition of Christian patriotism exclaimed, " If I forget thee.
0 Jerusalem, let my right hand forget her cunning," surely
I may be permitted, to say in all humility—it I forget that
which broke the iron spell that bound the world in ignorance,
and severed those fetters forged by men wherewith they de-
sired to make captives of immortal souls—if I can cease to
love that cause which broke through the mists and dark
clouds of men's invention, which had rolled between Calva-
ry's hill and the eyes of fallen sinners, and which hid from
them the glorious cross, and Him who hung crucified
thereon, as the sinner's hope and safety, and bringing forth
that cross again into prominence in man's salvation, planted
it in the foreground, and wrote above it, Neither is there
salvation in any other"—and if I can forget the blessed re-
formation, " then," I sup with the sweet psalmist of Israel,
" then let my right hand forget her cunning." (Cheers.)
The report of which I have the honour to move the adoption,
and which the secretary has just read, points out some lead-
ing features in the past year. It also reminds us of future
holy enterprise, persevering in our good and excellent works,
and, at the same time, it enforces present duty. We stand
at the close of another year. Another season has rolled over,
and, by the gracious protection of our God, we stand at the
conclusion of another year. It has been an eventful year in
many respects, and one that calls from every heart for deep
expressions of gratitude to Almighty God for all his manifold
blessings bestowed upon us. Hear, hear.) As the report
pointed to national events, perhaps I may be permitted
for a moment to glance at one or two. (Hear, and cheers.)
As we look along the stream of time during the past year,
what do we behold ? We see an impotent and helpless mi-
nistry, who, instead of accelerating the movements of
government, served to be a clog upon its wheels, and who,
having lost the confidence of the country, persevered in
dragging out a weary existence, until forced by the almost
unanimous voice of an indignant nation to give up the reins
of government, and to transfer them into nobler and abler
hands. (Cheers.) We see men now entrusted with the
reins of power—and I am sure we all hail with gratitude
their accession to power—from whom we have a right to
expect great and good and protestant things ; and if any
error has been committed in years past—if a fatal breach
has been made in our constitutional liberties and rights, it
now remains for those men to repair the breach, and to re-
store to Britain an unimpaired and unadulterated constitu-
tion. (Great applause.) We hope for better things in
England, and also for my own dear but hapless land—
though I grieve to say that in the civic chair of its capital
town, there sits a man, who, being a traitor to his country,
is unfit to sit in any chair of the kind. (Hear, hear.) Yet
we hope that by a strict and impartial administration of the
laws—by a discouragement of that turbulent system of agita-
tion which has so long distracted the country—by a bringing
forth to justice of those assassins whose feet have been swift
to shed innocent blood—by placing conscientious men in the
jury box who will give honest verdicts—by protecting the
rights, the liberties, the properties, and the lives of protes-
tants, and by extending the established church, the spiritual
and temporal interests of Ireland will be advanced under the
new rule of that country. (Hear.) And what is the next
event of importance that meets our view? Oh, it is.a blight
and i!autiful one. Hardly had the present achninistratim‘
taken the reins of government, when she who sits enthroned
in these realms—and long may she live in health and wealth,
and long may she live in the hearts and affections of her
subjects—(cheers)—hardly, I say, had the new administra-
tion entered upon office, when the longings of an affectionate
nation were satisfied, when their desires were fulfilled, and
their hearts cheered by the birth of a young prince. (Re-
newed cheers.) Oh ! how men of all parties seemed for a
moment to lay aside their differences on that occasion, and
joined in hailing the new-born scion of a noble line I I am
persuaded that your hearts, beating full of honest loyalty,
are ever ready to give fervent expression to that shout—that
truly British shout—" Long live our gracious Queen ; long
live the Prince of Wales." (Tremendous cheering.) I.
regard it as a peculiar and signal manifestation of God's favour
to our land, and of his continued blessing upon us; for, surely,
if He had been minded to slay us and cast us off, He
would not have accepted our prayers, and granted us a son.
May that son indeed prove a Sampson towards God
and man, and a mighty man of valour in defending the
faith of protestantism, and those principles which placed his
house on the throne of England! (Continued cheering.)
May God Almighty long bless that royal mother and her in-
fant son ! And if I may be here permitted to allude to ano-
ther point which has cheered my own heart and the hearts of
all those who sympathise with God's will, and who love what
he loves, and hates what he hates, I would point attention
to a noble act of the King of Prussia—that Christian king.
(Cheers.) We know his anxiety to establish a union between
the reformed churches, and you are probably aware that he
has nobly come forward and asked from England a Christian
bishop to be planted in the ancient city of Jerusalem. Need
I say how nobly he has laid down his thousands upon thou-
sands as as an endowment for this bishop—need I say how
he has waved many national prejudices and sent to England
for a suitable man—need I say how nobly England answered
him—need I say how nobly our gracious queen gave her as-
sent to the measure—how rapidly all things were got in train
—and how, on the 7th of November, in the ancient chapel of
Lambeth Palace, a converted Jew was ordained as the Bishop
of St. James, at Jerusalem, by the hands of that venerable
prelate who presides over the Church of England—the Arch-
bishop of Canterbury. (Loud cheers.) Here is a signal in-
stance of the continued favour of God to England in having
selected her to be the honoured instrument of sending out a
bishop to the city that the Lord loves. And if we turn our
attention for a moment to our own town, what is the next
event that meets our view? Here again we see a turn out,
as in the other case, of men, who, to say the least of it, did
little credit to the Protestant principles of Liverpool, and we
see, thank God, a return and a turn in of others from whom
we confidently expect great Protestant things ; and, though
a little cloud has for a time arisen and darkened the political
horizon, yet we feel assured that, ere long, it will pass away
—that they will shine with greater lustre—that things will all
be set to rights, and that we shall again have our schools based
on the eternal word of God, and all font extracts and abomi-
nations of men shut out from their walls for ever. (Great
cheering.) These are great and glorious blessings ; and we
desire, at the close of a parting year, to set up our Ebenezer
and say, hitherto the Lord heti helped us ; and here I must
observe that the effect produced abroad in higher places, and
certainly the effect produced at home, is mainly attributable
to the successful movements of the Protestant Associations.
(Cheers.) Yes ; if the faithful trumpet has been loudly blown
in this town—if there be one among many others that de-
serves a peculiar meed of praise—if there be cue mouth that
has been more faithful to that trumpet than another—that
has given no uncertain sound and never flinched from his
duty, but through evil report and good report has persevered
in the path of Christian patriotism and Christian Protestant-
ism, I feel I bear with me the hearts of all the people present
when I lay them before you, Mr. Chairman, and acknow-
ledge that meed to be yours. (Most enthusiastic cheering.)
Much has been spoken against us, and much has been written
against us. We have been calumniated as needless agitators
and alarmists. We have been denounced as political fire-
brands and disturbers of the peace; but still, notwithstand-
ing all those calumnies wherewith we have been slanderously
assailed, we have gone steadily forward, and, by the help of
our God, we continue to this moment—" though troubled on
every side yet not distressed—though perplexed yet not in
despair—though persecuted yet not forsaken—though cast
down yet not destroyed ; for the Lord of Hosts is with us—
the God of Jacob is our refuge." The rev. gentleman here
resumed his seat amid loud cheers.
The Rev. FREDERICK PARRY, in a brief speech seconded
the resolution, and it was carried.
The Rev. THOMAS NOLAN, of St. Barnabas' Church, on
rising to move the second resolution, was warmly received by
the meeting. The drift of the rev. gentleman's speech went
to point out the eagerness with which Romanism gives coun-
tenance and circulation to the opinion that her character has
undergone considerable change and improvement, and that
her system is neither so bigotted nor intolerant as in bygone
ages. No sentiment more dangerous to Protestantism, nor
more favourable to Rome nor more false in point of fact,
could obtain credit. This, he observed, was the ground
work of Lord Alvanley's recent pamphlet on the state of Ire-
land, with the details of which Lord Roden had successfully
grappled ; and on this account the principle it asserted and
assumed deserved a consideration that otherwise might not
have attached to it. The great Grattan (he proceeded to say)
once remarked in the Irish House of Commons, that there
were cases in which the insignificance of the accuser merged
in the magnitude of the accusation; so also he (Mr. N.)
thought that cases might occur, like this of Lord AWanley,
in which the viciousness of a principle might be forgotten in
the rank of the individual who came forward as the champion
of it. This point he further illustrated by the mention of a
work on Ireland, by Gustave de Beaumont, widely circulated
on the continent, for which the author was rewarded and ho-
noured by the Institute of Paris, where Jesuit influence now
preponderates, in which this favourable representation is
made of Romanism, and the evils of Ireland assigned to her
connexion with Great Britain ; in corroboration of which he
referred to the second letter—Romanism on the Continent—
Dublin University Magazine, November, 1840. By these
means, he argued, public opinion is prejudiced in favour of
Rome on the continent of Europe, and made to react unfa-
vourably to the interests of Protestantism in England also—
quoting instances, from the history of Romanism in Ireland,
of the dexterity with which this abuse of public opinion is
made available for the advancement of Romish claims and
objects. We regret our want of room for a more lengthened
report. The rev. gentleman was listened to with deep atten
tion, and sat down amid much applause.
The Rev. FIELDING OULD next rose and said
Christian friends, in rising to second this last resolution,
feel myself in the disagreeable predicament of one who has a
great deal to say and very little time to say it in ; but if you
will give me your patient attention, I shall promise not to
trespass very unreasonably on you at this late hour, but will
endeavour to condense the remarks I intend to make into the
smallest possible compass. (Hear,) If it be true that there
is no security for individual rights or national prosperity but
through the influence of true religion on the people ; and if
true religion cannot exist unless where the sovereignty of
Almighty God and the supremacy and exclusive authority of
his word are acknowledged in principle and practice ; and if
it be true that those essentials are recognised in the frame-work
of the British constitution, and that the agents of the church of
Rome are endeavouring now to destroy the distinguishing pro-
testantism of the British constitution, and that their main ef-
forts are directed for the overthrow of the church of this coun-
try ; and if it be further true that their ultimate object is not
toleration, (which they have had ever since the repeal of the
penal laws,) nor civil equality, (which they have had since
the passing of the emancipation bill in 1829,) but that their
ultimate object is ascendancy,—then I say it is the bounden
duty of all who value their Bible, and who venerate the
precious blessings they enjoy under the British constitution,
to co-operate for the preservation of the distinguishing pro-
testantism of the British constitution. (Hear, hear, and
cheers.) I think our protestant associations are based on a
recognition of those principles. We are contending for the
religious principles of the reformation and the political
principles of the revolution. (Great cheering.) It is my
firm conviction, and all the signs of the times go to de-
monstrate the truth of it, that the Jesuits are exceedingly
busy at this moment in contriving and plotting, and, as far
as they can, executing their intents, against all that we love
and venerate in the church. I observe that I have been
honoured by a complimentary notice on the part of a certain
section of the press of this town for some remarks I recently
made on this subject at a meeting of the Bolton Protestant
Association. With me notices of this kind are of little
moment, coming as they do from men whose praise is censure
and whose blame is praise. (Hear.) All we have a right to
expect from them is, and we are often disappointed in the
expectation, that they shall adhere to truth, and that they
should not content themselves with misrepresenting and
calumniating, but that they should state the truth in what
they impute to us as our opinions. It is imputed to me,
with a magnitude of falsehood only to be conceived as
perpetrated by the peculiar professors of "liberalism,"
that I connected the recent fires which had happened in
this country with the machinations of the Roman catholics
generally throughout the country. It has been stated, and
repeated again and again, that I charged the whole Roman