The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-02-19 00:00:00

HOUSE OF LORDS.--TUESDAY.

Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from Calcutta,
praying for an equalisation of the sugar duties.
Some other petitions were presented, after which the house
adjourned to Thursday.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TUESDAY.
-0- 1 t6o 6,,u3c. Among them
Mr T.'ATTWOOD presented one from Birmingham, pra)ing
the house to proceed with reforms.

MR. BUCKINGHAhf.
Mr. TULLE brought in a bill for compensation to Mr. Buck-
ingham.

CARLOW ELECTION.—O'CONNELL AND RAPHAEL.
Mr. HARDY, in rising to bring forward the proposition of
which he had given notice, in reference to the conduct of Mr.
O'Connell in the transaction between him and Mr. Raphael,
began by moving that the standing order of the- house gainst
bribery and corruption at elections be read; and, thisu being
accordingly done by the clerk, the hon. member, finding that-
some laughter was caused in the meantime on the ministerial
side of the house, observed that, whether or not the risibility of
hon. gentlemen was excited by the circumstance of the standing
order being read he knew not, but this he knew, that the mo-
tion which he had to submit to the house stirred within him not
merely the words but the principle of that order. He had to
acquit himself of a great and important duty, and one which
affected the best interests of the hon. and learned gentleman
to whom the motion referred. That hon. and learned gentle-
man complained on a former night that he (Mr. Hardy) had
behaved with a want of proper courtesy to him in not having
made him acquainted with the nature of the petition that was to
be presented against him But he (Mr. Hardy) had since
learned, as a fact beyond all question, that a copy of it was in
his hands before it had found its way into his (Mr. Hardy's.)
(loud cheers from the opposition side.) There was one circum-
stance which he thought might cause the house and the hon.
and learned member some inconvenience, and that was the late-
ness of the hour at which the motion was to be brought forward,
in consequence of the notice of it standing ninth on the list.
But believing, however, that he had a perfect right to claim for
it a precedence of all other questions, he at once determined to
do so, and accordingly (on 1 hursday last) addressed the follow-
ing note to the hon. and learned gentleman :
" Mr. Hardy presents his compliments to Mr. O'Connell,
and begs leave to inform him, that it is his intention to claim
precedence for his motion this evening, respecting the Carlow
election, as involving a breach of privilege.
" 7, Portland-place, Feb. 11.',
The answer to this note was—" That the hon. and learned
member was not up, and would not be up for an hour." But
in the course of the day he received the following reply
any act of Mr. Hardy could create surprise in the mind
of any impartial person, it would be, that after having neglected
all the ordinary courtesies between members, he should have
had the almost incomprehensible presumption—(loud laughter)
to address his first communication to Mr. O'Connell, who,
however, cannot but feel flattered that Mr. Hardy should send
him his compliments"—(shouts of laugher.)
He (Mr. H.) trusted that upon this occasion the objections
which were made on the first night by the hon. and learned
member would not be repeated, namely that this- was a "mock
solemnity." Such a designation was not surely applicable to
a question which, even according to the hon. and learned gent.
himself, involved a case for inquiry. But if it was a case of
"mock solemnity," something had most certainly occurred
since Thursday which deprived it of that character. The
hon. member then proceeded to say that he had bad some
conversation with Mr. Rigby Wason, who treated the subject
very lightly, and to show what his (Mr. W.'s) feelings were,
stated that it was his intention to move for an account of all the
transactions and agreements between all the members of the
house. (Laughter.) After referring to the petitions from
Bath and from Mr. Vigors, upon which he made some com-
ments,
Mr. HARDY said he would then come to the facts upon which
his intended motion was founded, and ?he jury would find that
they lay in a very narrow compass. It appeared that on the
27th of May, a committee, which was then sitting upon a peti-
tion against the return for the county of Carlow, declared the
election of Bruen and Kavanagh to be void. On the 28th of
Mav, only the very next day, and, of course, before the people
of darlow could be consulted on the subject, the honourable and
learned member for Dublin called upon Mr. Raphael and asked
him to be put in requisition for Carlow, telling him at the same
time that the whole expense would not exceed £2,000. On the
29th of May, only two days after the seats were declared void,
the hon. and learned gentleman again called on Mr. Raphael,
and not seeing him, wrote to him in these-teems:—
" 9, Clarges-street, May 29,1E95.

"My dear Sir,—l remained at home, at some inconvenience,
until after the hour I mentioned. I was sorry I did not remain
longer, as you called shortly after; but as you left no letter or
other indication of acceding to my proposal, I take for granted
that you decline my offer—be it so. I only add my belief that
aneyeevrear heargarn o fone.meetso safe a speculation; I am quite
sureyou will
Islhiti never "
I have the honour to be, my dear Sir,
Your very faithful,
" Alexander Raphael, Esq." " DANIEL O'CONNELL.
This letter reminded him of what was quaintly said by one of
our poets—(cries of " Oh, oh," and laughter from the ministe-
terial side.) Yes, it reminded him of these words—" The thing
for sale calls forti:theseller's praise." (Laughter.) Certainly,
if any thing were wanting to puff one of the seats for Carlow,
nothing could be better calculated to do it than the assurance
given by the hon. and learned member, that it was a " safe
speculation"—(laughter), and that it would be some time be-
fore he might have another so safe to offer. In consequence of
that note a meeting took place on the lst of June, at which the
following note was delivered to Mr. Raphael:—
" 9, Clarges-street, June 1, 1835.
" My dear Sir,—You have acceded to the terms proposed to
you for the election of the county of Carlow, viz., you are to pay
before nomination El,ooo—say £l,OOO, and a like sum after
being returned—the first to be paid absolutely and entirely for
being nominated, the second to be paid only in the event of
your having been returned. I hereby undertake to guarantee
and save you harmless from any and every other expense
whatsoever, whether of agents, carriages, counsel, petition
against the return, or of any other description, and I make this
guarantee in the fullest sense of the honourable engagement
that you should not possibly be required to pay one shilling
more in any event, or upon any contingency whatsoever.
" I am, my dear Sir, ur very faithful,
" A. Raphael, Esq." " DANIEL. O'CONNELL.
This was the bargain entkred into between the hon. and learned
gentleman and Mr. Raphael. He (Mr. H.) would ask his
Majesty's Attorney-General to state to the' house whether he
had ever witnessed a more complete bargain ? What was the
subject matter? A seat in parliament. If it had been a bar-
gain for a horse, nobody could doubt that it would have been
enforceable in a court Of justice; but it was not. Would any
man say that Mr. Raphael would have sat as the representative
of Carlow if it had not been for the £2000? and would any man
say that he would ever have been recommended by the hon. and
learned gentleman if it had not been for that sum of money ?
What more was wanted for a bargain ? If it were necessary to
show that it was not the money that the hon. and learned gen-
tleman thought of importance, he (Mr. H.) begged the atten-
tion of the house to those notes which were written by the hon.
and learned gentleman to Mr. Raphael subsequently to this
case, in which he asked over and over again for the £lOOO. Mr.
Sheriff Raphael wrote to Mr, O'Connoil on the 4th June, as
follows

"My dear sir,—l have heard from Mr. Vigors this (lay. Our
prospects are quite bright."
Now, inasmuch as the bargain was only made on the Ist June,
and this note was written o❑ the 4th June, what were Mr. Ra-
phael's prospects at that time ? The recommendation of Mr.
Raphael had not arrived from Carlow, therefore his prospects
could not be said to have been bright. The letter went on "
will arrange your address for to-morrow's post, and my own for
immediate publication. At present I entertain no doubt of
success—you will hear again from me to-morrow. Who is Mr.
Hamilton with whom you have deposited the £lOOO ? (Cheers
and laughter.) I don't know any person of that name in Lon-
don. I hope I shall soon have the pleasure of sitting by your
side in the House of Commons." _

On the Bth of June the hon. and learned gentleman wrote again.
"London, June 8.
"My Dear Sir,—l sent off yesterday my letter to the elec-
tors of Carlow on your behalf; all my accounts confirm my
opinion of an easy victory; I doubt whether there will be more
than the show of a contest, but I am assured in any event of
success. I send you a slip of a Carlow newspaper, showing
that you are already nominated under the must favourable aus-
pices. I also send you the draught of au address ; I beg of you
to peruse it, and to return it to me with any correction you may
deem necessary, or if you approve it, then with your signature;
my wish is that you should alter it as little as you possibly can.
I also send you a sealed letter from Mr. Vigors. I beg of you
to return the address as near to four o'clock this day as you can,
that I may transmit it to the Dublin Pilot for publication on
Wednesday next. All the good men of Carlow see that paper.
Let me know who the Mr. I- 1 amilton is with whom you deposited
the £I.WO; I expected you would have lodged it at Mr.
Wright's. It is time this were done.—Faithfully yours,
" Alexander Raphael, Esq." " DANIEL O'CONNELL.

This was the bargain which he (Mr. H.) had to bring before
the house, and when he was beginning to state this, as he fan-
cied he was entitled to do the other evening, he was called to
'order by the speaker in consequence of his own request that the
petition do lie upon the table. He was stating that he did not
draw from these circumstances the inference that the money ul-
timately came into the pockets of the hon. and learned gentle-
man, and the house Would observe the importance that had been
attached to that declaration, He (Mr. H.) was a very little
man, as he confessed he was, when he came to accuse, but when
he came to acquit lie was a most important personage., He was
going on to state the other night that although in consequence
of the contest having succeeded to the bargain, and of the op-
position to the contest, there might not have remained any spare
money in the pocket of the hon. and learned member, what of
that? It might be of more importance to some men that they
should gratify their ambition than their personal vanity, and if
this money went for the purpose of increasing the political in-
fluence arid importance of the hon. and learned gentleman in
Ireland it answered those purposes which were most dear to
him, and accounted fur the anxiety with which he inquired after
the money, but when he (Mr. H.) recollected that the petition
itself was abandoned by the hon. and learned gentleman, as ap-
peared from the statement of his brother contractor, on the se-
cond or third day after the committee had sat, lie could not un-
derstand how the whole of the money could have been expended,
although there was a contest, because gentlemen would recol-
lect that Carlow was but a small county, not containing as
many voters as the borough which lie (Mr. H.) had the honour
to represent, and, therefore, no very large sum of money would
be necessary for the legitimate purposes of the election. But,
then, what would have been the case if there had been no con-
test ? If there had been no contest there'would, of course, have
been no petition, and yet the £l,OOO was to be paid on nomina-
tion, which nomination was likely, according to the hon. and
learned gentleman's own statement, to be followed, not by au
easy victory, but by the shadow of a contest, and then what
would have become of the difference between the actual cost of
nomination (supposing the rival candidates to have given up
the opposition,) and the remainder of the £2,000? It was part
of the bargain that Mr. Raphael should not be called upon for
one shilling more, but he did not find in the bargain that any
thing should be returned. These were the circumstances of the
case. They were in a narrow compass, and he had seen no
defence of them but what he had observed in the public news.
papers. The hon. and learned gentleman stood high in the
estimation of the editor: and it was stated in his defence that
nothing was more common than arrangements of this kind,
although he (Mr. H.) did not see any thing of that arrange-
ment in the bargain. It was said that what had happened was
a money transaction, and, as the petitioner was advised, strictly
legal, constitutional, and honourable, and that the great ma-
jority of the house were accustomed to make similar bargains
in respect to their seats—that nothing was more common than.
that one candidate should pay all the expenses, and that in this
instance Mr. Vigors had reputation and popularity, in the be-
nefit of which Mr. Raphael was to share. He (Mr. H.) had
yet to learn that if there was an hon. member who offered him-
self as a candidate to the constituency he had a right to sell
one-half of his popularity; that if he happen to he a man
possessing all the qualifications of a member, but no plentiful
purse, he could go to a friend and say, " Bring me your friend,
and I will give him half my popularity, and half my reputa-
tion." He could not understand that any such bargain was
legal; if it were it was the first time that he had heard of it.
He could not understand that any person who called himself
an agent in such a bargain could attempt to support a bargain
of that description. 1-le could not call the hon. and learned
gentleman an agent; he wondered the honourable and learned
gentleman called himself so, because he had never heard of an
agent who undertook to gurantee and save harmless from all
expenses. He should rather think that Mr. Vigors was the
agent of the hon. member for Carlow, than that the hon. mem-
ber for Carlow was the agent of Mr. Vigors in London. The
whole consequence of the bargain was, that the hon. and
learned member for Dublin put in two members, his old friend '
Mr. Vigors ex amicitia, and Mr. Raphael his friend ex contractu.
He gaiued every advantage by it, in that respect which was the
great object of his ambition, and although he gained that ad-
vantage on the one hand, on the other, it was of very little
importance what sort of a representative the people of Carlow
got—they never saw him—they never heard him—they had no
clear demonstration either of his physical or his intellectual
abilities; all they had was his address, and that had nothing of
him, but his name. !t was said that the honourable and learned
gentleman on this occasion, exercised nothing more than his
moral influence; hut he (Mr. H.) contended that if a man
possessed a moral influence in a borough, he had no right to
dispose of that moral influence for money. A new writ had
been moved for this session in, the place of a noble lord, lately.
a member of the house, who was formerly one-third of a chan-
cellor, and had now become a whole one. His seat having
become vacant, a new writ was applied for, and a gentleman
was a candidate for a seat in that borough, in which borough it
was well known the noble lord possessed a great deal of moral
influence; but what would be said if the noble lord was to go
and make such a bargain as this? Nay, put a case still more
analogous. There were some constituences which would be
glad to receive a recommendation from the Right lion. Bart.
below (Sir Robert Peel,) and suppose the Right Hon. Bart.
were to say to a gentleman, "I know a borough where, if I were
to recommend you, you would be sure to be returned; but if
you give me £l,OOO for nominating you, and another £l,OOO
when you are returned, then I will send you a laudatory letter
which shall introduce you to the constituency of that place, and
make you sure of the election." He should be glad to know
whether, if such a circumstance had transpired as to the right
hon. gentleman, the walls of the house would have stood the vi-
bration of those cheers with which the hon. and learned gentle-
man himself would have been saluted as he shot forth those
ar-
rows of invective which his quiver could so abundantly supply
against the right hon. gentleman? He (Mr. H.) had stated
what the bargain was, and that was all that was necessary for
his purpose. How the money was expended was not of the
least importance to the house. The question was, how the hon.
and learned gentleman had the power of spending it? What
he could have done with it? What this bargain enabled him
to do with it? There was nothing to prevent him from putting
every farthing of what happened not to be spent into his own
pocket, for purposes of personal aggrandisement. It was there-
fore hardly necessary to enter into the circumstances subse-
quently stated, which appeared under the band of the hon. and
learned gentleman. He (Mr. H.) exclaimed when he first
read this case, " Why was it necessary to recommend Mr. Ra-
phael ? Was there no Irish party who could go and present
himself to the electors of Carlow, and offer to fight their battles
in this house? Was there no man to spend the trifling sum of
£2,000 in legal expenses to vindicate the righls of the people of
Carlow, and do justice to Ireland?" There was a gentleman
who did make inquiries upon the subject, whom he (Mr. II.)
respected for his straightforward character, which he had often
witnessed in the house, Mr. Feargus O'Connor, it appeared,
had beeu inquiring after this, but the hon. and learned gentle-
man wrote, 'lt is not my fault that Mr. Feargus O'Connor
called upon you. Refer him and everybody else to me"—(great
laughter.)"l want part of the £l,ooo"—(renewed laughter.)
On the same day this note was written to Mr. Hamilton, "Sir,
—I beg you will hand my son, Mr. John O'Connell, the £I,OOO
for my use—(cheers)—my son will give you a voucher." It
was in reference to this that he (Mr. H.) had made the obser-
vation the other night relative to the member for Youghal, be-
cause it did not follow that though Mr. J. O'Connell went for
this money, he knew for what purposes the money was to be de-
livered. But if this inquiry was granted, it would be for 'the
committee to investigate that circumstance. He did not know
that it was necessary to make any further observations as to the
facts of this case. lie had laid them before the house, as he had
felt it to be his duty to do, and if the hon. and learned gentleman
could get rid of them by argument or evidence, he would have
an opportunity of so doing. He would only make one single
observation before he sat down as to what fell from the hon. and
learned member for Tipperary on Thursday night. The hon. and
learned member, evidently for the purpose of exciting the pre-
judice of the opposite side of the house against the motion, bad
chosen to represent him (Mr. Hardy) as put forward by the
conservatives. (Loud cheers.) Sir; (continued the hon. mem-
ber,) there is a gentleman sitting behind the Treasury bench at
this moment to whom I mentioned my intention more than two
months ago, and every gentleman around me hears what I say ;
and if there be a man on this side of the house who heard me
mention it to him two months age, I would have him stampt as a
villain. The hon. member for Tipperary puts me forward as the
leader of the conservatives. Ido not pretend to be a leader. I
am not of the Monboddo breed of politicians. lam not one of
the articulations of the joints, either politically or anatomically ;
but this I know, that I came into the house an independent
man, and I will act as such. I came into the house upon those
principles so eloquently expressed by the noble lord-when he
introduced the reform bill, and when he said that he took his
stand on that ground which would enable him to reform abuses,
and avert commotion. That is the ground on which I take my
stand. If that be to be a conservative, I avow myself a con-
servative, and that is the course of policy which I am determined
to pursue as long as I have a scat in this house. As to bribery
and corruption, I call upon the hon. member for Tipperary, and
all his friends upon that side of the house, to say whether they
ever found me flinching—whether the inquiry was into the cases
of bribery and corruption at Warwick, Stafford, or Hertford. I
wish to he consistent, and I cannot understand those gentlemen
who, after having hunted with a keen scent for little peccadilloes,
lose their scent, and find all their energies paralysed as soon as
they approach a wholesale dealer in corruption. (Cheers.) I
have always been startled at the policy of those gentlemen—they
call themselves radicals—they monopolise the name of liberals.
Liberality ! I think it was not shown the other night. I saw
such a specimen of it that I am determined never to belong to
that political sect of Pharisees who can strain at a gnat and
swallow a camel. The hon. member concluded by moving,
"that a select committee be appointed to inquire into the circum-
stances of the traffic and agreement alleged to have taken place
between Daniel O'Connell and A. Raphael, Esqrs., touching
the nomination and return of Alexander Raphael as one of the
representatives in parliament for the county of Carlow, at the
last election for that county, and to report the minutes of evi-
dence taken before them, with their observations thereon."
Mr. O'CONNELL commenced by declaring that the resolution
was an exceedingly paltry one. It did nut extend to the inquiry
which he demanded. lie denied that be had been furnished
with a copy of the petition before the correspondence with the
honourable gentleman' and alluded to the cheers with which the
contrary statement had been received as a proof of the impar-
tiality he had to expect. But he believed that the gentlemen
opposite had not the hypocrisy to pretend that they were impar-
tial. It was not the bribery of the Carlow electicn, but his
increasing exertions to put (owl) toryism that constituted his
real crime. There was not a man in the house or out of the
house who did not know that it was a party attack upon him—
that i, was the attack of the party who used the press and bribed
the press to assail him— that very press belonging in a great
measure to a member of that house, who himself expended from
£;30,(.0) la E I9,0(X). upon ail electiota lie could not he !p tinnk-

FEBRURA Y 19, 1816.

ing. for all the gravity, that there Was some mockery in the
charge. The itiqu,ry should have been extco,:ive and searching,
not paltry and personal, as it ha,l now become. He was acquit-
ted of personal corruption the other evening. But he (elied the
the charge. What he wanted was an independent committee
and a full inquiry, and, if that were not granted, his influence
in Ireland—aye, and in Engiand—aye, and even in Bradford,
would be increased, and the honourable member who accused
him might inset him there if ever he stood for that place again,
He charged that honourable member with a partial statement.
His whole speech was calculated to forward the ends of injus-
tice. The source of his power was the injustice done to Leland.
He was the hired servant of the Irish people, and it was his
duty to obtain members to represent them in that house. Yet
this was made a charge against him. The honourable and learned
gentleman then entered into a history of the state of Ireland
under the tories, and proceeded to detail the history of his
connexion and
.proceedings with Mr. Raphael. As to the
charge of pecuniary corruption, the whole of it arose from the
circumstance of Mr. Raphael being applied to for the expenses
of his election. But he would appeal to any man whether the
legitimate expenses must not be considerable. After going
through many additional details, the honourable and learned
member concluded by declaring, that, if he agreed to the com-
mittee, it would be in order to hear the evidence of-Mr. Vigors„
and to ascertain whether the allegations contained in his peti-
tion were or were not well founded.

Mr. WALTER rose in consequence of the allusion made to
him, as connected with the press, by Mr. O'Connell. He had
but little to say in reply, because he was very certain, and so
must be the hon. and learned member that he had no authority ,
for the assertion he had made. He assured the hon. member
that he was much better satisfied with his attacks in that house
than with his menaces out of it—of which there had been
plenty—among his dignified followers. it might, perhaps, not
have been safe to have replied to him before those gentle per.
sona,ges ; but iu that house he could repel his slanderous insi-
nuations without fear, except that degree of timidity which one
unused to speak often must necessarily feel. The learned
member overrated his own importance if he supposed that he
(Mr. Walter) had ever thought it worth his while to make hint
the object of attack in any publication whatever. (Hear,
hear.) He (Mr. Walter) was himself wel qualified to judge of
the effect of such attacks, for from the moment when la con•
pliance with a requisition he sought to obtain the station he or.
cupied in the house, every species of libel had been heaped upon
bias by his political opponents; but these libels had failed ; and
if they had not failed in the case of the learned ieeinber, it was
because their characters were different. To him (Mr. Walter)
these libels were mere matters of contempt, because they were
false; they galled the learned gentleman, they provoked his
wrath in the house, his menaces Out of it, because he knew and
felt them to be true. 'After souse observations, Mr. Waltee
concluded by saying, that be hoped they had not destroyed En-
glish boroughtnongers in the detail, to suffer—what the hon.
member for Bradford had very properly called—a wholesale
dealer in Ireland. ( Much cheering.)
Mr. RICiBY WASON complained of being misrepresented by
the member for Bradford. He concluded by abandoning his
proposition for conducting the inquiry at,the'liar of the house.
Mr. WARBURTON said that he did not, think that the res(du-
lion proposed to the house by the hon.‘nember for Bradford
embraced sufficient matter to afford an opportunity to the hon.
and learned.member for Dublin for a full exculpation of him-
self. That resolution did not give the committee the power of
inquiring how the money had been expended, and this he
thought was very material. to a proper investigation of the whole
case. He should, therefore, move as an amendment, that the
following words be added to the resolution—" And the applica-
tion of the money said to have been received, and the circum-
stances under which the same was received and expended."
Mr. Haeny said that he did not wish to withhold any oppor-
tunity that might be necessary for a full and entire investiga-
tion of the whole case, but he found that he could not introduce
anything of the nature of the present amendment into his reso-
lution without opening a door for entering into the whole his-
tory of the county of Carlow election. The committee should
be called upon to say whether the money ought to have ex-
pended at all, and if so, whether it ought to have been made a
matter of bargain for the sale and purchase of the representa-
tion of a county in that house ? He should not make any per-
sonal objection to the adoption of the amendment, but he would
leave the matter entirely in the hands of the house.
Mr. HUME said that he considered the conduct of the hon.
member for Bradford perfectly fair hitherto; but when he now
spoke of a bargain between Mr. Raphael Ir. O'Connell
for the sale of a county representation he thou hon. mem.
ber went much farther than he was warranted in going. The
bargain, in fact, appeared to have been made between \rigors
and Raphael. (" Hear, hear," "Oh, oh," and much laughter.)
Mr. W. WYNNE said that the charge undoubtedly was, that
a negotiation had been carried on for the purchase of a seat in
that house between Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Raphael. That
may or may not be the case; but it certainly was the point for
the committee to inquire into. (Loud cheers.) He did not see
any objection to the words of the amendment; but he thought
them unnecessary, because the committee would of course
inquire into the mode in which the Money had been expend-
ed, in order to throw light upon the whole transaction.
The Speaker having read the original motion and the amend-
ment, _ _

Lo.rd SANDON said that he merely rose to a.ik a question or
the hon. member for Bridport. He wished to know if it was the
object of his amendment that all the matters connected with the
connty of Carlow and its representation should be gone into, be-
cause if so he ( Lord Sandon) shalt certainly objuoLto the
amendment? Ile did not think the house could fairly; or le-
gally go into such an extended inquiry, and he could tetripok
upon such a course, if adopted before the committee, e-
lated to cloak or smother inquiry into the real transa ?i
(cheers.)—from which it might be the object of some to div
attention. (Cheers.) He (Lord Sandon) owned that his sus-
picions on this head were not a little excited when he saw the
hon. and learned member for Ipswich withdrawing an amend-
ment of which he had given notice the night before, and the
hon. member for Bridport substituting another in its stead.
(Cheers.) It was fit, therefore, that the house should have a
perfect understanding as to what the real nature of the in-
quiry before the committee was to be. (Loud cheering.'))
The cases of the widows and orphans that bad been alluded
to he admitted were such as called loudly for inquiry; but
then it should be a distinct and separate inquiry. (Cheers.)
Indeed he hoped the house would institute an inquiry into the
cases that had been described ; but it ought not to be included
in the present proceeding. He wished, therefore, to know whet
the precise view of the hon. member's amendment was.
Mr. WARBURTON said that the sole object of his amendment
was to ascertain the actual application of the money—to whom
given and for what purpose. He certainly did not intend to go
into the general state of the county of Carlow election. A very
few questions, he had no doubt, would elicit all that the commit-
tee would desire to learn on the subject.
Lord SA\NDON said that he was perfectly satisfied with the ex-
planation of the right hon. member, and he should offer no op-
position to the amendment. . _

The motion, as amended, was then read from the chair, and
agreed to.
Mr. HARDY, in rising to read over the list of the committee,
observed that the gentlemen whose names he was now about to
propose had not heel' chosen by him in the usual course of par-
liamentary parctice upon these Occasions; but they bad been •
elected by the mutual friends of both parties concerned, ass
equal number on each side, with one casting vote. In fact the
matter had already been made too much a party question.
(The loudest cheers burst forth on the ministerial side at th
avowal.) Ho must be allowed to finish his sentence, and ask, if
it had been made a party question, on which side of the house
was that indication first observable ? It was therefore his own
wish that he should neither be a member of that committee nor
have the selection of any individuals who were to ccuavose it.
The following were the names of the gentlemen who had been
selected :
Mr. Ridley Colborne
Lord Francis Egerton
Mr. Bannerman

Mr. W. Ord
Sir C. Broke Vere
Mr. Warburton
Sir Eardley Wilmot
Mr. H. B. 'Ward.

Mr. Barneby
Sir Ronald Fegusson
Sir J. Yarde Roller
Of which number six were on one side of the question and five,
on the other, as it was not possible to balance the number so as
to make them equal on both sides, owing to the necessity for
having a casting vote.
Mr. Sergeant Wild and Sir Frederick Pollock were appoint-
ed nominees, making 13 members in the whole.
Mr. Sergeant O'LOUGHLIN afterwards obtained leave to
bring in the municipal corporations (Ireland) bill,
Sir R. Pear submitted that details were unnecessary till
they had the bill.
Some other motions were agreed to without any debate, after
which the house adjourned.