The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1847-03-30 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD,

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Adp

1 they were there as ,the advocates of the public. Who
compose the great bulk of the gas consumers in Liver-
pool ? The middle and working-classes, and not the mer-
chants. , They had heard a great deal about the breaking
up of the streets—about the pipes being laid coutigious to
each other, the water being rendered unwholesome;
but that was all nonsense, and besides, it was a matter
that they should not set so high a value upon. They
were told that if they got another £50,000, and a £50,000
now, and the same again, that they would go on in-
creasing and increasing till they would be able to serve
the public as they ought now to do. (Hear, hear:)
But why, he would ask, could not the Guardian Gas
Company do the same ? He did not see why they should
be called upon to vote away the public money, for the
support and protection of -any private comnany whatever.
It was not fair or just to the Burgesses at large if they
did so. " The Council had. no right to fight their battles ;
let them fight their own. If the purse-strings of the
Council were to be tied, and all parties placed on a fair
footing, he would be satisfied, but not otherwise. He
would conclude by recording his vote in favour of the
amendment. _ _

• Mr. BRAm LEr-Moa.R.E.rose and staCed that the town
was under great obligations to- the Guardian Company for
the benefits they had already conferred upon the public, as
-he firmly believed if the Guardian Company had not been
established the public would not now be receiving gas
either so good or so cheap. He thought, under these
circumstances, that they should in any case be remuner-
ated for the ,sacritices which they had made for the public;
but still he could not help, saying and believing that the
committee had adopted the wisest and best course in the,
report which he had heard read.
Mr. PROCTER said that the petitions were most respect-
ably signed in three days, by housekeepers, merchants,
heads of firms, &c., and that it was preposterous to
suppose a large portion of the population could have the
opportunity. The Guardian Gas Company undertook
to supply gas at 3s. Bd. per MO cubic feet : and
his impression was that an amalgamation of the two ex-.
isting companies would only confirm a monopoly. He
would leave the companies to fight their own battle, and
not interfere. The Council was stepping out of its course
in meddling with the companies.
Mr. HODGSON agreed that the Guardian Gas Company
had done good in reducing the price of gas,but he thought
the disadvantages of a -new company would neutralize or
overcome all the expected advantages. They were now •
supplied with the very best gas at a cheap rate. The sum
which the new company were going for (Xl00,000) was an
absurdity. To carry out their works effectually, three or
four times that amount would be required. Besides,
they could not supply the outskirts of the town,
and the streets would be further-broken up. The Guar-
dian Gas Company had proved nothing ; but they deserved
thanks for being the means of bringing about a reduction
in the price of gas. Let the companies fight their own
battle. He thought the new company would be defeated
in parliament.
Mr. J. HOLME was in favour of leaving the present
companies as they were. The New Gas and Coke Com-
pany were able to supply twice the present amount of gas,
and he thought the town would be benefitted by leaving
the companies to themselves.
Mr. AIKIN said that the people of Liverpool at large
were in favour of the New Gas Company; and he thought
the time was come for the Corporation to purchase the
gas works, and to supply the town, themselves, with gas
as they proposed to do with water. If they did not pur-
chase now, they would have to do so hereafter, when they
would have much more to pay.
Mr. STEWART was of opinion that under one company

the gas would be better and more cheaply supplied. He
proposed that the Council, if they did not become the
suppliers of gas, by purchasing the present works, should
insist upon an amalgamation of the companies, as had
been promised. The sole object was to obtain good gas
at the cheapest rate.
Mr. LACE was against any remuneration to the Guard-
ian Gas Company, as what they had effected was for their
own ends. They could not be serious when they said
they could produce gas at 3s. Bd. He did not think the
Council should pledge themselves to any particular or
hasty step on the question.
Mr. Higgins's amendment was then put, and was lost
by a majority of 14 to 13.
Another amendment, by Mr. ROBINSON, resulted in
votes for 15', and against 11; but this was also super-

seded.
Several other amendments were submitted,—one of
them by Mr. LACE, to the effect that the Council should
oppose both the gas bills, and that it v‘as important that
both the gas companies should be purchased by the Cor-
poration, and steps taken to that effect ;—but no definite
conclusion was come to.
The TOWN-CLERK, on being questioned as to the state
of the question, said that the report of the Committee of
the Council was negatived, and that the Council, so far,
had resolved to take no part for or against the gas com-
panies.
Mr. HODGSON suggested an adjournment, as he con-
ceived that any precipitancy of decision on so important a,
subject would not be satisfactory to themselves or the
public.
The general feeling appeared to be in favour of this
suggestion, and not (as several gentlemen had proposed)
to refer the matter back to the committee for reconsicle-,
ration ; and, by mutual consent, the MAYOR adjourned
the meeting until Friday next, at twelve o'clock.
On Mr. Higgins's amendment, the votes were—
For.—W. Preston, C. S. Middleton, T. Robinson, J.
Aikin, T. Toulmin, T. Royden, J. Procter, T. Kaye, V.
Higgins, J. Parker, J. Booker, R. L. Jones, J. Lawrence
—l3.

Against.—W. Atherton, J. Holme, T. Littledale, J.
Stitt, J. Stewart, W. Bennett, J. Plumpton A. Lace,
11. Hodgson, W. Nicol, J. H. Turner, J. B. Voore, J. S.
Leigh, W. P. Bushby-14.
On Mr. Robinson's amendment the numbers were :

For--W. Preston, J. Stitt, C. S. :Middleton, T. Little-
dale, J. Aikin, T. Robinson, I'. •Toulmin, T. Royden, J.
Procter, T. Kaye, V. Higgins, J. Parker. J. Booker, R.
L. Jones, J. Lawrence-15.
Against.—J. Holmc, J. Stewart, W. Bennett, J.
Plumpton, A. Lace, D. Hodgson, W. Nicol, J. H.. Tur-
ner, J. B. Moore, J. S. Leigh, W P. Bushby-11.

An adjourned'meeting of the Town Council was held in
the Council Chamber on Friday,- to adopt final measures
respecting the gas question.
The MAYOR adverted to the cause of the meeting,
which was to consider whether a resolution, . proposed by
Mr. Robinson, on Tuesday, and which was an amend-
ment on the original motion of Mr. Turner, the chairman
of the Lighting Committee, should be adopted. The
Mayor then read the resolution, which was as follows:
" That the report be not adopted, and that the Council
take no part either for or against the principles of the
Guardian Gas Bill, or the Liverpool Gas Bill, but that it
be referred to the Lighting and Health Committee, to
introduce such clauses as may be necessary for the benefit

of the public."
The MAYOR said that before he asked if any gentleman
had an amendment to propose, he would read a letter
which had been addressed to him from the proprietors of
the Guardian Gas Company, having reference to some
remarks that had fallen from Mr. Bennett, at the Council,
on Tuesday.
Mr. D. HODGSON strenuously opposed the reading of
the letter, and thought no parties out of doors should be
allowed to reply by such a mode to what might transpire
at their meetings.
Much discussion ensued on the point, and the letter
was ultimately read. It had reference to certain state-
ments made by Mr. Bennett at the last meeting, touching
the price of gas, as proposed by the Guardian Gas Com-
pany, and went to show that what. Mr. B. had stated was
incorrect.
A memorial addressed to the Mayor by the Liverpool
house-owners Guardian Association, was then read. It
stated that the memorialists had long been of opinion
that the supply of gas to the town ought to be m the
bands of the Corporation, and,instanced the case of Man-
chester, where the gas works, were under the control of
the authorities of the town. The memorial concluded by
recommending the purchase .by the Corporation of the-
two existing companies.
Mr. RarnuoNE wishekto be allowed to hand in the
copy of a letter from Mr., Cox, which he happened to
have, and which he thought in justice to Mr. Bennett,
should be read, This..was opposed, and the readieg,, of
the letter was deferred:.
Mr. Nrcor, thought it: was the duty of the Council. to
see that the two companies did amalgamate, and regretted
this amalgainationsli& not take effect when first proposed-
He thought it would be. time enough when the existing
companies had dorm what they proposed in 1845, for the
Council to consider whether it was more advisable to deal

with the Guardian Gas Company, or to sanction,the rais-
ing of the additional capital by the existing companies
Mr. Nicol, altudino• to. the sixteen petitions presented to
the Council on. behalf. of the Guardian Gas Company on
Tuesday, said theTwere all copies of oA decument.
Mr. 1.4,..cE. said, either the Corporation
,must at once
take steps to supply the town with gas, or up. the idea
altogether. He was convinced the present .company could
do this better than the Corporation could,_. but private in-
terests would prevent such a desideritum. As to the
complies amalgamating, he doubted ifsuch a procedure
would -operate beneficially ; for where there was no longer
any competition, the probability was, that the price would
be raised. He was convinced that the result of amalga-
mation would be unfavourable to the inhabitants. He
was of opinion that the best course to adopt would be, to
refer the question to a committee, to decide whether the
Corporation should become pur...basers of the existing
companies.
Mr. D. HODGSON desired the Town-clerk to reakl: a.
report furnished by a former committee on the subject.
The report was dated March Ist, 1815. It went to show
that an enormous outlay of eajital was caused by the mere
fact of the gas being supplied: from two sources instead of
one ; such, for instance, as the laying down of the pipes
in the same street by each company, the frequent, breaking
up of the streets, the expenses of two establishments for
the purposes of management, &c. Mr. Hodgson thought
that if these companies were united, the price of gas would
be considerably reduced. The Council could interfere to
prevent the existing clause, which limited the dividends
to 10 per cent., extending to the capital which it would
be necessary for them to apply to Parliament for. He
considered a private company better calculated for such
an undertaking than the Corporation ; and with respect
to what had been said about competition, he did not think
much competition existed even, under the present cir.
cumstances.
Mr. PiaticEu expressed himself in favour of the views
entertained by Mr. Lace, whose motion he felt convinced
would be carried.
Mr. RATHBONE, in order to show that the price of gas
could be reduced, produced a parliamentary document, by
which it appeared that a population of forty thousand
people was supplied with gas at 3s. ad. per 1000 cubic
feet. In answer to a question as to the price of coal in
the locality where gas was supplied at this rate, Mr. Rath-
bone said it was ten shillings per ton,
*eyeral other members uciciressed the Council cm the
„

subject. Mr. Stewart stated that he thought if the esti-
mate of Mr. Cox to supply the town with gas at an outlay
of £130,000 were to be depended on, it would be absurd
to purchase the existing companies at an expense of
£700,000; and Mr. Aikin added that so long as the ten
per cent. dividend of the present companies continued
the capital would go on increasing. Ultimately, the fol-
lowing amendment, proposed by Lace, and seconded
by Mr. Watson, was put : " That it be referred to a com-
mittee to consider if it is desirable that the Council should_
purchase the powers and privileges, rights and interests
now vested in the Liverpool Gas-light Company and in
the Liverpool New Gas and Coke Company, and that
they repoA generally on the question." The motion -was
lost,. the ayes and noes being balanced, and the question
remains as it stood on Tuesday, Mr. Robinson's motion
on that occasion being carried.

MEETING OF THE SELECT VESTRY,

The usual fortnightly meeting of the vestry was held
on Tuesday last ; the Rev. Rector CAMPBELL in the
chair:

Before the commencement of the regular business,
Mr. EARLE, being obliged to quit the board, -rose to
request, on-behalf of the Council, that a sub-committee
of the vestry might be appointed to confer with a sub-
committee of the Board of Health respecting the sanatory
condition of the town. Dr. Duncan had given it as his
opinion, .that .it would be impossible to carry the Sana-
tory. act into effect, unless the town were-relieved of the
Irish paupers. He (Mr.. Earle) considered it highly ne-
cessary -that -something should be done to procure the
amendment of the Removal Act, so as to authorise them
to send vagrants back.
The CHAIRMAN thought the best sub-committee would
be the existing Irish Relief Committee.
Mr. EARLE highly approved of the suggestion.
The ordinary business of the vestry was then proceeded
with. Ninety-five cases of fever were stated to have oc-
curred last week, and four cases of smallpox. The Ho-
norary Medical Board drew attention to the crowded
state of the cleansing house. They had found 40 persons
sleeping in four beds in that small ward.
Mr. SC HOLPIELD said, that sheds had been taken which
it was expected would accommodate three or four hun-
dred cases, and beds had been ordered for them. A great
expense would thereby be incurred, no doubt; but it had
been considered imperative to guard against the increase
of fever which was to be apprehended as the warm wea-
ther advanced. The charge for the use of the sheds
would be £9OO a-year.
The proceedings of the Workhouse Committee embo-
died a resolution recommending that the honorary medi-
cal officers should confine themselves to the duty of con-
sultation, and not interfere with the treatment of . the
sick or the management of the house.
Mr. THORNELY proposed that the confirmation of the
proceedings. should he deferred till the next meeting.—
Agreed to.

-Mr. HORSLEY called attention to the state of the cel-
lars under the parish-office, in which paupers waited to
be relieved. They were extremely dark, filthy, and un-
wholesome, and he moved that the use of them be dis-
continued. As many as 1400 persons were kept waiting
daily, many of them for several hours, in those cellars,
which were not fit for any human being to.be put into.
Several members took a different view, and
Mr. FERGUSON moved, as an amendment, that the
subject be referred to the Finance Committee.
On a division, the amendment was carried by 15 to 4.
The CHAIRMAN said, he had received a letter from the
Mayor respecting interments in the parish cemetery,
which, he suggested, should be referred to the Rectors,
the Churchwardens, and the Workhouse Committee.
The present state of things, he observed,. was highly ob-
jectionable. It was worse even than that at Childwall
and Woolton, where the bodies were. inclosed in coffins
and put over the walls of the churchyards at night.
In the report of the Industrial School Committee, the

resignation of Mr. and Mrs. Coates was alluded to.
Their successors are to receive £l5O per annum, with
house and rations, and they are to have,no concern with
the education of the inmates.

The CHAIRMAN then stated the proceedings of the
Irish Relief Committee. The number of persons relieved
during the week had been 9503 ; the total number of ra- .
tions, 55,055; the value of bread and soup, £223 10s.
41d. ; money given, £342; the expense of offices and
sheds was calculated at £45 ; making the total expense of
last week £6lO. Previously, the average expenditure
had, been £5OO per week. The arrivals from Ireland from
the 13th of January to the 13th of March bad been-63,942;
the average for the last fortnight had been 1444 per day.
A great number of these bad emigrated,. and many had •
gone up into the country. Mr. Scholfield having report-
ed. that five large sheds had been engaged for the recep-
tion. of fever patients, some gentleman would perhapl
move a resolution sanctioning that measure.
The resolution was proposed accordingly, and carried,
as was another, authorising the Irish Relief Committee .
to communicate with the special sub-committee ,of the
Board of Health.

The CHAIRMAN then read a letter which he had re-
ceived from the Home-office, with reference to the.vacci-
nator for Vauxhall district, who was charged in Dr.
Duncan's report to the Health of Towns Board with a
total neglect of duty during six weeks. This was followed
by other letters, including one from Mr. Whitley in reply
to him (the Chairman), in which he positively denied the
charge, and asserted that, during the six weeks xeferred
to by Dr. Duncan, he had vaccinated eighty cases. On:
the receipt of this letter, he had written to Dr. Duncan-
to know on what evidence the charge against Mr. Whitley
was founded. The answer was, on that of the registrar
of the district, at whose office the vaccinations should be
performed.
Some member remarked, that the registrar for Vaux-
hall district was one of those who did their duty, by de-
puty.
Mr. FERGUSON was of opinion that there was too great,.
a wish on the part of Dr. Duncan to curry favour with
the higher powers—to stand well with Sir George Grey—
rather than to apply to parties on the spot whose business
it was to attend to such matters. His report was nothing
more than a combination of the daily medical reports
made by the parish officers.
The business of the day being concluded, it was agreed,
on account of the general vestry occurring on the 7th of.
April, that the boars should meet this day (Tuesday), at
twelve o'clock.

T.T11,421-1 T:TA