The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-04-24 00:00:00

ANNUAL GENERAL VESTRY.

The annual Easter Vestry for the parish of Liverpool, for
re reception of the report and accounts of the select vestry,
1r the election of officers,. and the despatch of other usual

arochial bisiness, was held on Tuesday, at.twelve, o'clock,
n St. Nicholas's Church, the Rev. Jonathan Brooks, in the

chair.

The Secretary, Mr. JAMES ECKERSLEY, read the report,

the points of which we need not enumerate, as the document
is already before the public.
Mr. Ham- read an abstract of the accounts.
On the question being put, that the accounts do pass—
Mr. BIGHAM said there were Several items in the accounts
which consideration. He was glad, however, to find, that
the general expenditure exhibited signs of having been well
conducted. There was one point to which he took exception.
He was of opinion, that the expenses incurred in those de-
putations to London, which were set forth, in the accounts,
to have been per order of the vestry, upon the " prisons bill"
and the " watch rate bill," should not pass. Here were
three deputations from the parish of Liverpool to London,
which had cost the sum of £240. Here was a very serious
item whielt had been incurred without remark, while those
who drew out the report exulted that a saving had been
effected which amounted to three farthings per bead. He
vestry-clerk if there were not some legal limit to the amount
which could be demanded by persons going on deputations.
Could they legally demand more than one guinea per day.
Mr. LOWNDES replied, that there was no legal rule on the
subject ; parties, in such cases, were allowed their expenses.
Mr. SIGHAM would then appeal to the common sense of
fellow-parishioners, if this were not a gross and uncalled-for
expenditure. There had been two deputations to London on
the prisons bill alone. One had been sent to the commons,
the expenses of which were £7O; and immediately after,
another was sent to the House of Lords, which cost £6O ;
making a total of £l3O for deputations for opposing one bill.
Did his fellow-parishioners calculate upon any such expense
when they authorised the opposing of that bill ? There was
.another point which had attracted his attention : he found
that the taxes in the year 1838 had amounted to £19,032
18s. 5d., and in 1839, at the same rate, to £27,354 Gs. llid.
Hints have been thrown out, that to the poor, who paid in
small sums, the vestry had been severe and pressing, while
to those who paid in hundreds, they were lenient and for-
bearing, allowing the money to stand over till it. was conve-
nient for the parties to pay. This was unjust, and the
interest of such money was lost to the parish. They ought
to have an annual statement laid before the parish of those
who bad paid and those who had not paid their rates, and
then they would have an opportunity of seeing whether the
poor were oppressed. He appealed to his fellow-parishioners
whether they would allow the expenses of the deputations to
pass without showing that they considered them exorbitant.
In conclusion, Mr. Bigham moved, that the sum of £240,
for the expenses of the three deputations named in the ac-
counts, be not allowed.
Mr. BARNES said he had some remarks to make on a par-
ticular department of the parochial expenditure, not with a
view to having it lessened, but with a view to having it greatly
increased. (Hear.) He observed that a sum of £250 was
paid to the two assistant-overseers, whose duty it was to visit
the distressed individuals about the parish. The number he
thought insufficient, as they could not possibly pay as much
attention as they ought to this department, and he thought
these officers ought to be greatly increased. There ought, at
least, to be six of them to perform the duty efficiently. He
had himself visited aged and distressed individuals, and,
though he must say, whvnever he called at the parish-office,
every attention was paid to them, yet they required to be dis-
covered first by private individuals, and it was not possible
for two officers to attend to all the claims upon their attention.
(Hear, hear.) He hoped, therefore, that a sufficient number
of men fitted for the office would be selected, and appointed
to this department. He moved that the select vestry be re-
quested to take the subject into consideration, with the view
of increasing the number of visiting overseers to four or six.
The CHAIRMAN said Mr. Barnes was correct as to the
number of the visiting officers employed, but not as to the
salaries, which were included in those stated in the accounts
as paid to visiting overseers, clerks, and constables, £484 18s.
They had better decide upon the accounts first, and then it
would be regular to entertain the motioubrought forward by
Mr. Barnes.
The accounts were put and passed without opposition.
Mr. HENSIIAW inquired the average number of cases
which the officers had to visit per day.
Mr. KILSHAW—about thirty.
Mr. IlEssuAw said, formerly there was only one officer
for the performance of this duty, and he believed he did it
very easily. Another was afterwards appointed.
The CHAIRMAN said he had inquired whether it had ever
happened thata poor person, whose case had been represented,
had not been visited. He found that no such case had oc-
curred ; that all had been visited.
Mr. BARNES'S motion was put and lost.

Mr. Churchwarden KILSHAW said, it has been agreed at a
recent vestry to recommend Mr. William Birkett and Mr.
Isaac Hutchinson to be churchwardens for the next year ;
seconded by Mr. Bushby.
Mr. KNArratt—l beg leave to propose Mr. Alderman
James Aspinall. (Laughter.) Mr. James Aspinall, I am
sure, will ►nake a very efficient churchwarden.
The CHAIRMAN said, Mr. Aspinall objected on the ground
of not having time to attend to the duties of such an office,
and as he was a magistrate of the county, he was legally ex-
empt, so that they had no means of compelling him to serve
them as churchwarden.

Mr. CLARKE had an individual to propose, and he did it
because he thought that every man who did anything for the
benefit of the parish was worthy to be rewarded for his ser-
vices. He understood that one of the present churchwardens
had discovered a sum of money which had been lying dor-
mant for some years. The gentleman to whom he alluded
was Mr. Kilshaw, and how this sum had been reserved for
him to discover, and why it had escaped the attention of other
persons for so long a time, he could not tell. He thought,
however, as he had shown himself so vigilant, and as they
had no other mark of esteem that they could bestow upon
him, that they ought to re--appoint him one of the church-
wardens. If Mr. Kilshaw would tell them how he had made
this discovery, he would move that, as a mark of their ap-
probation, and as a reward to him for his excellent conduct,
he should be re-appointed churchwarden.
The CHAIRMAN said, they were well aware of this sum
before, and he believed it was left originally as an individual
charity to poor persons ; and he was not quite sure that the
parish were acting legally in incorporating it with their ac-
counts. It was only £5O originally, and the interest was
about £2, which had, in nine years, accumulated so that
£l9 lOs had been placed to the credit of the parish accounts.
Mr. CLARKE wished to know how it had been formerly
appropriated, and what was the reason why it had lain dor-
mant for nine years.
Mr. KILSHAW said, he believed the interest was formerly,

by the governor and governess of the Workhouse, divided
amongst a certain number of indigent individuals.
Mr. CLARKE said, this practice, then, ought not to have
been discontinued.
At the suggestion of Kr. Kilshaw, Mr. Clarke withdrew
his motion, and Mr..Birkett and Mr. Hutchinson were.ap-
pointed.
Mr. Wilkinson and Mr. William Foster, of Roscommon-
street and Vauxhall-road, were appointed sidesmen for the
ensuing year. Mr. John Tatham and Mr. William Taylor
appointed churchwardens of St. Paul's. Mr. Robt. AP Kee
and Mr. Thos. Stretch were appointed churchwardens of St.
John's.
Mr. KILSAW said it was recommended to re-appoint all
the same individuals (with the exception of three) members
of the Select Vestry who had constituted that body last year.
As it had been requested that the number of times each party
had attended during the last year should be stated, he was
prepared to give that information to the meeting. Mr. Kil-
shaw read a statement of the number of times each indivi-
dual had attended the board and the meetings.
Mr. EPHRAIM KNAPPER thought it very inconvenient
that twenty individuals should be proposed in a body. He
wished to hear the names of the old members whom it was
proposed to retain.
The names of the seventeen old members were read, and it
was intimated, that the three members who retired were the
two churchwardens and Mr. Muncaster, who had been cho-
sen overseer.
The CHAIRMAN put the seventeen old members to the
meeting first.
Mr. KNAPPER said he would move that the name of Mr.
William Waithew be introduced as one of the seventeen in
lieu of that of the person who had attended the fewest times.
Mr. KILSHAW said that was Mr. Laycock.
Mr. Knapper could not find a seconder to his motion, and
it fell to the ground. The seventeen old members were re-
appointed.
Mr. WILKINSON, seconded by Mr. HENSH AW, proposed
Mr. John Mellor us one of the three new members.
Mr. KNAPPER, as an amendment, proposed Mr. William
Walthew. Not seconded.
A PARISHIONER proposed Mr. John Clarke. Mr. Clarke
declined, and the original motion was carried.
Mr. MUNCASTER, seconded by Mr. GROOM, proposed
Mr. William Woods, of Pembroke-place. Carried.
Mr. Foen, seconded by Mr. BUTLER, proposed Mr... Si-
ngleton Cooper. Carried.
Mr. Lowndes was re-appointed vestry-clerk; Mr. Hart,
treasurer ; Mr. Edward Gray, overseer ; and Mr. John
Evans, assistant-overseer; all with the same duties and emo-
luments as heretofore.
Mr. WILKINSON spoke in very high terms of the services
of Mr. John Evans, who, he said, had most arduous duties,
which he performed in a most exemplary manner. Mr. Wil-
kinson produced and read a letter from Thomas James Hall,
Esq., formerly stipendiary magistrate of this borough. Mr.
Hall spoke in very high terms of the character and services
of Mr. Evans. Mr. Wilkinson said this officer was greatly
underpaid, his present salary being only £lBO per annum.
He was a very worthy member of society, as well as an ex-
cellent officer, and he had also a young and increasing family.
He begged, therefore, to propose, that his salary be increased
to two hundred guineas per annum.
The motion was carried without opposition.
Mr. JAMES ECKERSLEY was re-appointed Secretary. with

the same salary and duties as last year. The six Collectors
were re-appointed on the same terms.
Instead of renewing the gratuity of £2O to Mr. Welsh, it
was determined to fix his salary at £l2O per annum.
Mr. KILSHAW proposed that Mr. and Mrs. Dowdall be
re-appointed Governor and Matron of the workhouse, with
an addition to Mr. Dowdall's income of £lOO per annum to
enable him to effect an insurance on his life. Mr. Kilshaw
pointed out the constant exposure of Mr. and Mrs. Dowdall
to disease, from their constant attention to the sick under
their care, and spoke in warm terms of the services of the
Governor and Matron.
Mr. CLARKE said he was fully sensible of the excellent
conduct of Mr. and Mrs. Dowdall. No person could have
a higher estimation than he had of the value of their services,
but it was clearly understood, when they were appointed,
that their salaries should not go on increasing with that ra-
pidity which had before been too common. He thought the
sum of £250 per annum, which they received, with the per-
quisites which they enjoyed, making the salary equal to more
than £4OO per annum, was a very handsome allowance. He
thought that out of this Mr. Dowdall might and ought to lay
by sufficient to produce an annuity for his children. He did
not speak with any personal feeling, but he knew that some
of Mr. Dowdall's children were advanced in life, and lie
thought it was not well to be too precipitate in carrying a
resolution of this sort, for which there was no precedent.
Mr. HENSHAW said the thing was not without prece-
dent, as it had been done in the case of Mr. Hardman. and
it was on the fruits of a similar resolution that the children
of Mr. Hardman had relied for support, otherwise they
might have come to the vestry for assistance.
Mr. CLARKE said, if such a thing had been done in the
case of Mr. 11 ardman, he had never heard of it. It was the
principle, however, which lie opposed. These sort of en-
croachments should not be allowed, otherwise their money
would soon be wantonly thrown away. The parish-rates
were collected for the poor, and those who could hardly
afford to pay them, nevertheless did pay them cheerfully on
that occount, and they ought to pause before they gave that
money which was intended to support the destitute, in in-
creasing salaries, and particularly before they gave it to those
who could afford to do without it. (Hear, hear, and cheers 4)
Mr. Kusii.lw spoke warmly and energetically in favour
of Mr. and Mrs. Dowdall. They had not paid them nearly
so well as the last governor and matron, who had £4OO a year,
and he would say they deserved more,—they deserved £5OO
a year. (Loud cheers.)
Mr. KNAPpEn. was greatly opposed to the increase of sa-
laries, but he thought an additional £lOO a year in this case
was not out of the way.
Mr. CLARKE said, us be perceived the opinion of the meet-
ing was against him, and as lie meant nothing personal as
regarded Mr. and Mrs. Dowdall, he would withdraw his op-
position to the grant. He only feared that these encroach-
ments would be continued.
The motion was carried, it being stipulated that the addi-
tional £lOO per annum was for the express purpose of pro.
curing a life assurance.

On the motion of re-appointing the Rev. Mr. Joseph Chap-
lain to the Workhouse, _

Mr. HOLLAND stepped forward, and after repeating a story
against Mr. Joseph, containing similar chary% to those
brought forward by him at the last general vestry, he moved
that he be not re-appointed Chaplain-to the Workhouse.
Mr. W. RUstrroN spoke in high terms of the conduct and
qualifications of Mr. Joseph. If they searched England
through they could not find a better man or one more fitted
for the office. ..
Mr. HOLLAND.—likrote a letter to the Bishop of Chester
detailing the whole circumstances. (To Mr. Rushton.) Per-
haps you never-put your hand in your pocket for him as I
have done. alt has been said I told all this at the last vestry,
and I 'did ; and I shall oppose him at every vestry.
The CHAIRMAN said he decidedly objected to ex parte
statements without proofs against individuals at vestry meet-
ings. (Applause.) As the Bishop of Chester had been men-
tioned, he might state that since the letter alluded to was
written the Bishop of Chester had ordained Mr. Joseph,
which he would not have done had he conceived anything to
exist against his character. He might state furher, that the
Bishop of Chester, in consequence of what he had heard, ap-
pointed a commission, consisting of himself (Rector Brooks,)
Mr. Campbell, and Dr. Tattershall, to investigate the allega-
tions against Mr. Joseph. The result was that his moral
character came out quite clear. That he had been guilty of
indiscretions he did not deny, but nothing' worse. lie had
been indiscreet, for he was a simple minded man who knew
little or nothing of the world, and, in consequence, he had
been stripped of all of which he was possessed, which he (the
Chairman) believed was not much. Since his appointment
he had performed his duty undefatigably. With regard to
his having been a Jew, as had been stated, they had no right
to find fault with him for that now. If he had left the Jews

and become a Christian they had still less reason to find
fault with him. (Cheers.) As his case had been fairly in-
vestigated, and the result in his favour, it was hardly fair to
him to bring it forward now. (Cheers.)
A Parishioner in the gallery spoke very highly of Mr.
Joseph, both in regard to his character and the manner in
which he had discharged the duties of his office. If he had
any fault it was his great charity to the poor.
The CHAIRMAN said lie had fallen into an error in respect

of the letter spoken off, which he now understood waswritten
to the Bishop not only after Mr. Joseph's ordination but
after his appointment as Chaplain to the Workhouse. How-
ever, there was a letter written to the Bishop before his or-

dination, and it was to that he had alluded.
Mr. HOLLAND renewed his amendment, which was se-
conded by Mr. MORETON. It was negativeed by a very
large majority, not above four or six hands being held up in
its favour.
It was proposed that a reduced church-rate of one penny
in the pound be paid in lieu of the former rate of three-half-
pence in the pound. Carried with great applause.
On the proposal to grant one hundred guineas to the East-
ern Dispensary,
Mr. JAMES MULLENEUX opposed the motion. Mr. Mul-
leneux stood so far back under the gallery, and spoke in so
low a tone, that it was with d►fficulty we could catch the im-
port of what he said. We understood him to state, that, as

Vice-President of the old Dispensary, he felt it his duty to
oppose the proposition. The Eastern Dispensary owed its
origin to a private party, and was not entitled to any support
from the parish. It had taken away subscriptions from the

old institution without relieving it 'of its patients, for the
latter had of late greatly increased. The old institution took
in precisely the same district as the new one, therefore, while
it did its -duty properly the latter was uncalled for. He
hoped he should gain credit for not being influenced by any
motive but that of wishing to support the oldest charities in
the town, and desiring to protect the interests of the poor.
He should move that this grant be not allowed.
Mr. CLARICE seconded the motion.
Mr. JAMES Asriri ALL, as Chairman of the Committee of

the Eastern Dispensary, disclaimed the idea of that charity
having been instituted for private purposes. He had sat
upon the committee of that charity to which Mr. Mulleneux
alluded, as he believed he had upon almost every other, for
he had been connected with every other in the town, and he
was certain the funds of the Eastern Dispensary would be as
properly applied as those of any other Dispensary whatever.
Every one knew how the town had increased, and the neces-
sity there was for another Dispensary. He believed when
the old Dispensary got into funds, they intended again to
take in beds. He hoped, when they considered the good
which the Eastern Dispensary had done, that the parish
would allow them the same privileges as the others. He re-
peated that he thought the funds of the Eastern Dispensary
were as well applied, and as much needed also, as those of
any other institution, and he could not but think any opposi-
tion to their claims exceedingly invidious.
Mr. MULLENEUX. (Cries of spoke, spoke.) He wished
to say a few words lu explanation. It would be well if, be-
fore they decided this question, they would give themselves a
little time for inquiry. (Spoke, spoke.) This dispensary
would make a claim on the queen's marriage fund. (Spoke,
spoke.) He merely wished to explain that he did not imply
for a moment that the funds of the new dispensary,were not
properly aplied, but that they would interfere with and crip-
ple the operations of the old institution.
Mr. ASPINALL said the committee of the queen's mar-
riage fund had consented that the eastern dispensary should
participate in its benefits.
Mr. PARKER said, if Mr. Mulleneux, with his philantro-
phic mind, only knew the necessity which existed for the
new dispensary, he was sure he would not continue his oppo-
sition to this grant for one moment.
The question was put, and the motion for the grant was
carried by a large majority.
Mr. IsAAc HOLMES wished to ask the vestry-clerk whe-
ther he had any reason to suppose that the town council
intended to oppose the rescinding of the watch rate act.
Mr. LOWNOES said he had seen the town-clerk a few days
since, and the latter gave him to understand, that any mea-
sures they might take on the subject would not be opposed.
Mr. WtetetNsofe proposed the usual grant of 20 guineas
to Mr. Dowdall, but at the suggestion of Mr. Lowndes, and
some others, he withdrew the motion.
Mr. MONTGOMERY proposed a resolution to the effect that
the select vestry be requested and empowered to oppose the
Inland Bonding Bill to the utmost of their power.
Mr. BUSHBY seconded the motion.
Mr. CLARKE said he could not see what the parishioners
had to do with this question. Those gentlemen who were
benefitted by the present bonding system should, if they
thought themselves likely to be injured by that which it was
proposed to introduce, do it of themselves by private sub-
scription out of their pocks. There were hundreds of pa-
rishioners who had no benefit from the bonding of goods in
Liverpool, and he did not see why the owners of warehouses,
whose interests were affected, should come and endeavour to
saddle the parish with the expense of opposing a bill which
they thought would injure their business. Every individual
who felt his interests touched upon might now go to the
vestry and call upon the parish for aid, and so the system
would go on till, what with deputations and other expenses,
instead of the rate being one penny it would be two pence or
three pence or four pence or eigt t pence. In every trade in
Liverpool it might happen that an act of parliament might be
brought forward which would appear to do some injury, and
the persons engaged in that trade, instead of thinking, as they
naturally ought to do, of protecting their interests out of their
own resources, would say, " Oh, we have nothing to do but
go to the vestry and the parish will bear all the expense of
our deputation and of our application to parliament !" This
was a very objectionable proposition altogether. If the par-
ties who held warehouses felt aggrieved they were quite
monied men enough to oppose this bill without calling upon
the parish to expend the money which was paid by many
persons with difficulty enough, for the poor, to assist them.
Mr. CHRISTOPHER BUSHELL said their opponents had
evidently not given the subject on which they had spoken
much consideration. They were great economists, as it ap-
peared by their professions ; but it did not appear to have
struck them that it was a principle of economy to oppose this
measure (cheers), which was that of keeping as much money
in their own pockets as possible. (Cheers.) Was there any
economy in driving trade from their own doors, in sending
away rental that helped to pay their parochial rates, in rais-
in.. up a number of expensive Custom-house establishments
in Manchester, Birmingham, Sheffield, Wolverhampton, and
other places ? These establishments would entail upon the
country an enormous additional expenditure. This was a
question which materially affected the parishioners of Liver-
pool, and if they would look into its various bearings, they
would see that it was their duty to oppose it. (Hear and
cheers.) With respect to the Council, with which he had the
honour, if honour it were, and he supposed he must call it so,
to be connected, he regretted that that body should have act-
ed, on so important a question, with a degree of apathy that
was disgraceful to them. The question was one of vital im-
portance to every individual in the town, whether it were a
tradesman or a shopkeeper, or an artisan, or a labourer, yet
the Council had not entertained it at all. They could discuss
many questions with which they might appear to haze less to
do : they could discuss, forsooth, the corn-laws, the privi-
lege question (laughter), and appeal to the sympathies by
speaking loudly and eloquently in favour of humanity ; but
when the best interests of the parishioners were concerned,
where there was a measure brought forward for taking away
one-half your trade, which this would do, they were as silent
as the grave. (Cheers.) This question was by no means a
warehouse question ; it was one which concerned all the trad-
ing interests of the town, for it would narrow the trade of, the
town fully one-half. (Hear, hear.) Could any one, there-
fore, refuse to admit that the fate of the town was much in-
volved in it. If the value of the warehouses were reduced;
looking on it in that point of view alone, would not the rates
be reduced ? • The trade itself would be reduced, he repeated,
at least one-half, and, as it could not be pretended that such
reduction would not injure the parishioners at large) it was
their duty to oppose the measure.
Mr. DOVER said, the parties who had taken up this matter
were wholly disconnected with the warehouse party. He be-
lieved the matter was first moved by those interested in the
wine and tea trade. At the same time, the warehouse pro-
prietors rightly considered that the measure would do them
no good; and that it would be injurious to the parishioners,
and even to the county at large, could not admit of a doubt.
He had it from a gentleman high in the Custom •house esta-
blishment, that they would have to institute customs esta-
blishments in other places, which would be as expensive, in
proportion to the business, as this in Liverpool. On these
grounds he thought the measure should be opposed.
Mr. CLARKE. in explanation, said, he had opposed the
parish going into the matter, on the ground that it was not a
proper question on which the parochial funds should be ex-
pended. The money of the parish was collected for poor peo-
ple, and not for the aid of the rich. Mr. Bushell intimated,
• that having got into the council, he bad got into bad corn-.
pany, and he (Mr. Clarke) thought the sooner he got out of
it, the better. (Laughter.) A voice—We'll not let him ;
we'll give him good company. (Renewed laughter.) When
L the council came forward to improve the commerce of the
, port, and to erect warehouses for the accommodation of the
, merchants, who found fault with them, and who voted against
• them ? And now, when they did not choose to interfere with
L persons who wished to have the warehousing of a portion of
• their own goods, who again found fault with them ?' People
voted for cross-purposes, for their own benefit, and not for
the public good.—(A voice—Was it for the public good that
Mr. Clarke got his license ? )
l After a few words from Mr. Bushell, Mr. Clarke's propo-
sition for negativing the motion was put and lost. The origi-
nal motion was carried by a large majority.
L Mr. KNAPPER expressed his gratification that, so far from
any defalcation being found against Mr. Walthew, it had
• turned out that there was a balance of four or five pounds in
L his favour. His services had been very great to the parish
L during a very long period, and he would propose that £lOO
• IT granted to him as a gratuity, to be renewed annually.
Mr. Eters seconded the proposition.
Mr. BRYDEN opposed the motion, on the ground that it
opend the door for an endless routine of similar pensions to
• several individuals. This sort of gratuity was entirely with-
• out precedent, and the parish was heavily enough burdened
already. If this would be merely to Mr. Walthew, he would
not oppose it ; but who was there that had served the parish
for any length of time who was not entitled to a similar grant
as much as Mr. Walthew ? It was a new thing, and he ob-
jected to it, and he was convinced that the bulk of the parishi-
oners would object to it too.
Mr. BIGHAM seconded the amendment. He was proceed-
• fag to recapitulate the charges against Mr. Walthew, when he
was stopped by
Mr. KILSHAW, who said they had found out, on examin-
ing Mr. Walthew's accounts, that he had credited more
money than he had received.
Mr. BIGHAM said he was glad Mr. Walthew had come out
of it so well. No one, however, could prove that he had not
been a political partisan. (Disapprobation.) He only wanted
to show that he had used the influence of his office impro-
perly. (Hisses.) If he could make out that, he should
move that he ought not to receive this annuity. He had
stated the same before, and was informed that Mr. :Walthew
had behaved in like manner to tories as well as well as libe-
rals. (A voice, " Call them radicals or destructives.") He
could .produce cases that would illustrate his charge, but he
would confine himself to one which was his own. Mr.