The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-07-24 00:00:00

MEETING OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE

The weekly meeting of the Dock Committee was held yes-
terday. The following members were present :—Mr. Lea-
thom, Mr. Benn, Mr. Barclay, Mr. Tobin, Mr. Gladstone,
Mr. Holmes, Mr. Thos. Holt, Mr. Smith, Mr. Geo. Holt,
Mr. Dixon, Mr. Martin, and Mr. Horsfall. The chairman
of the committee, Mr. LEATHOM, presided.
The proceedings of the last meeting, and the accounts for
the week, were read over and confirmed.
A letter from Mr. Hartley, the surveyor, was next read,
dated London, July lith. It stated that the dredging ma-
chine had been set to work in the Coburg Dock, and up-
wards of a thousand tons of mud taken away. Everything
had been done that was possible ; and he was satisfied that
if proper inquiry had been made at the Dock-office in the
first instance, no injury would have been done to the Presi-
dent.. This was followed by a report from the same gentle-
man, dated July 22, in which he gave a variety of minute
details. Since the President had'left the dock, sixteen hun-
dred tons of mud had been removed from the dock. Under
all the circumstances, he begged leave to remonstrate against
the charge of neglect, and strongly to deny that any work
entrusted to his charge had been wilfully neglected. He
submitted that his conduct, during the time he had had the
honour of being surveyor to the dock estate, had not been
deserving of such public censure.
The ClimitmAN announced that Mr. Hartley was in town,
but would not be able to be present, as he was attending a
funeral.

Mr. HORSFALL said, as this matter had arisen with him,
he would beg to make one or two observations. A more in-
dustrious, servant than Mr. Hartley this trust could not
hay.e; but neither Mr. Hartley nor any other man was in-
The point to which big (Mr. Horsfall's) observa-
tions applied was not answered. in the report just read. Mr.
Hartley was sure to take the most correct means-in his power
to remedy mischief when any occurred, but his (Mr. Hors-
fall's) observations related to the dock being finished and the
gates closed with two feet depth of mud within it. He con-
ceived that the dock ought to have been properly excavated,
and the materials taken out, before the gates were closed.
The Cu AIRMAN said that when he read the reports given
in the newspapers, in London, it occurred to him that Mr.
Hartley had Keen exceedingly pressed to close the gates of
the dock earlier than he intended, in order to admit one of
the large steamers. The owners represented that if they did
not get out of dock at the spring tides in June, the vessel
might probably be detained till October. It was under these
circumstances that Mr. Hartley had been desired to close the
gates, and that certainly was.some excuse for having done it.
Mr. HORSPALL said that might be a good excuse for Mr.
Hartley, provided it was wished still further to excavate
the dock.

The CHAIRMAN observed, that as Mr. Hartley was not
present, the matter had better go no further at present.
Mr. HORSFALL said the report sent in by Mr. Hartley
had rendered it quite necessary for him to make these further
„ ,
observatiOns,

Mr. ToniN inquired whether any application had been
made to the committee to open the dock before the excava-
tions were completed ?
The CHAIRMAN did not know; but he knew that he was
scarcely ever on 'Change without being strongly urged to
Close the dock-gates at the earliest possible period, on ac-
count of the high tides.
Mr. ToJUN remarked, that whenever one application was
granted another was sure to be made.
The CHAIRMAN repeated, that the committee could pro-
ceed no further with the subject to-day.
Mr. GEORGt HOLT did not see the propriety of discussing
the matter further, as Mr. Hartley would be present on
Thursday, to give such explanations of his conduct as he
could.

Mr. done thaORSFALL had no out at thing
as bad been
Hon t ought to be de,d bth
it since h adever beyen certained
that there was a fault somewhere.
A resolution was then carried, to the effect that the Sur-
veyor and the. Harbour Master.be authorized to decide upon
the proper time to let the Coburg.Dock dry, and to give the
Proper notices. It will be seen, in the course of the report,
that the subject was afterwards re-opened.
The North and South Harbour Masters presented reports
relative to a gridiron being placed in George's Dock basin.
The safest place, they said, would be the north-east corner.
Some objections were raised to the project, and eventually
the consideration of the reports was postponed till next week.
The memorial of certain residents in Seacombe, Egremont,
and New Brighton, for increased facilities for crossing the gut
of Prince's dock, to and from the ferry boats, was also post-
poned at the request of Mr. Hartley, who had arrived since
the termination of the discussion above.
The MARINE SURVEYOR reported-that on the Bth and 9th
instant he visited Point Lynas light-house, and found it in
perfect order. He also reported the following life-boat ser-
vices :—on the 14th instant, at 20 minutes past 9 a.m., the
Point of Ayr life-boat proceeded to the assistance of the
Sylphide, on shore on the West Hoyle Bank ; at 6 a.m. the
same boat proceeded to the assistance of the schooner Mar-
garet, of Pieston • on the 15th and 17th instant the Formby
life-boat proceeded to the assistance of the Jim Crow. which
they found abandoned by the crew, and brought her into Li-
verpool ; on the 19th instant the same boat proceeded to the
assistance of the Mary and Ann, and remained with her till
the next morning; and on the 20th instant the Magazines
life-boat proceeded to the assistance of the Lady Mackenzie,
ashore on Burbo bank, remained with her all night, and got
her off without injury. A copy of this report was ordered to
be sent to the Humane Society, and to the Exchange and
and Underwriters' Rooms.
The SECRETARY read a letter signed Ambrose Lace and
John North, solicitors for the Herculaneum and Harrington
dock bills, stating that, as they were desirous of examining
one or more of the dock masters before the Lords' committee
on the above bills, they desired the dock committee to give
permission for any two of them to proceed to London this
evening (Thursday) whom they might select for the purpose.
Mr. Toanc saw no objection to the application being
granted.

- Mr. GEORGE HOLT asked whether sending up two of the
paid servants of this trust was not something like sanctioning
the Harrington and Herculaneum bills, and a breach of their
trust ?

Mr. TOBIN understood that there was no opposition to
those oils on the part of the members of this trust.
Mr. GEORGE HOLT remarked that, as trustees for the
bondholders, they could take no other course but oppose
them.

Mr. BENN said, the applicants must get the witnesses by
the regular course.

Mr:GEORGE HOLT remarked, that the witnesses might be

"nTITC-CHAIRMAN ;aid, that would be the most regular plan.
Mr. HORSFALL said, of course it was understood that this
committee threw no impediment in the way of the applicants.
The CHAIRMAN added, that, if the Speaker's summons
issued, the witnesses must go.
Mr. TOBIN asked whether it would not appear somewhat
factious to return such an answer to the application ?
Mr. tancLAr said, this committee had not shown any
factious opposition to the promoters of the bills, for they had
only petitioned against them. _ _

Mr. TOBIN moved that two of the dockmasters have per-
mission to attend, to give their evidence before the lords'

committee

Mr. DixoN seconded the motion

For the motion,
Against it . .

6

Majority
The motion was consequently lost
Mr. HOILSFALL begged permission again to introduce the
subject.of the dock bill, as Mr. Hartley was present. The
observations he made last week were by no means in-
tended to apply to Mr. Hartley's conduct generally ; on the
contrary, he was ready to testify to the ability, zeal, and
industry, of the surveyor of this estate. None of us were
infallible, and his impression was that Mr. Hartley had
made a mistake in not lowering the bottom of the dock to the
level of the sill befort.the gates were closed. If that had
been done during the time of putting on the gates, it would
have saved much trouble ; now it:could only be done at spring
tides. Mr. Hartley, therefore, ought to have availed him-
self of the twelve months occupied in putting up the gates to
have reduced the level of the dock, and for that he (Mr.
Horsfall) considered lie was blameable.

Mr. H A RTLEY replied that if that had been done, the
completion of the dock would have been delayed much
longer. In the next place, there were the foundations of a
gridiron there which could not be taken up until recourse
was had to the operation of blasting. When thAt was done,
the most urgent applications were made. to open the dock for
the accommodation of the large steamers, and it was in
compliance with them that it was opened so soon ; but no
opportunity had been lost of deepening it. It was very hard
that imputations should be thrown upon him for which he
was not responsible. If he had been in Liverpool the dan-
ger to the President would not have occurred.
Some further discussions followed, and eventually it was
resolved, that the Coburg dock be run dry for the purpose
of being deepened.
The CHAIRMAN said he had to communicate to the com-
mittee, that the delay in' getting the dock bill through the
House-of Com Mons continued till Friday last, when he ex-
pected it to have been finished. The committee, however,
postponed any further proceedings till Monday. Mr. Benn
was left in London, and he would be able to inform the com-
m►ittee of what had taken place.
Mr. BENN said that on Thursday last the proceedings of
the deputation were laid before the committee. In conse-
quence of Lord Sandon stating that it would be quite impos-
sible to get the bill through the House of Lords this session,
it had been decided to proceed with it no further. The whole
proceedings, however, would be laid before the committee
next Thursday.

Mr. TOBIN asked in what state, then, the bill was. Was
it suspended or postponed ?
Mr. Bs NN replied that it had passed the committee, but
had not been reported to the house.

Mr. HORSFALL apprehended that, with regard to this bill,
suspension and withdrawal meant the same thing.
Mr. TOBIN wished to know what the expenses amounted
)

The Co AIRMAN could not tell. The London agent's bill
had not yet been made out, neither had their own solicitor's,
so that it was impossible to tell.

Mr. GEoRGE HOLT said the proceedings had not closed
yet ; but he should wish to know what the expenses up to
the present moment were.

The _CHAIRMAN replied that the treasurer had paid
£4,454_125. id.

Mr. H0111.,,LL said it was in vain to ask what the ex-
penses were yet. They would be pretty large no doubt ; but
the, discussion had better be deferred till after the report next
Thursday.

Mr. fOBIN.—It is all very well for gentlemen in favour of
the bill to keep back the accounts of expense. I, however,
oppose the bill, and therefore I should like to know what the
expenses are as we go on.
Mr. BENN.—You do know.
Mr. HORSFALL.—Gentlemen can have no motive for with-
holding the amount of the expenses; when they are ascer-
tained, there will not be the slightest objection to state them.
Mr. GEORGE HOLT.—They will be large enough.
Mr. Toniti.—More than you expect. I prophesied, in the
first instance, that the bill would be withdrawn, and you
laughed at me. Now i
you have spent £30,000 in trying to
get it, and you have withdrawn t ; but you are the wiseacres.
Mr. HORSPALL.--Oh, Mr. Tobin, you are but the second
prophet. Mr. `Yates prophesied before you.
The committee then separated.

THE FASTEST STEAM-VESSEL IN EVROPE.--The Fire
King, of 600 tons and upwards, builder's measurement, and
250 horses' power, left the river on Saturday morning last,
on an excursion to the Menai Bridge, having on board the
Chairman and Board of Directors of the Hon. the East India
Company, Sir Richard Bulkeley, Bart., Sir Richard Jenkins,
Gen. Clement Hill, Captain Bevis, Lieut. Tudor, of H.M.St.
Redwing, Mr. Ewart, surveyor of steam to the admiralty,
~
"-Miami Fawcett, Esq., Dr. Brandreth, Dr. Jackson, Wm.
Itathbone, Esq., and other gentlemen. The extraordinary
performances of this splendid steamer reconciles us to the
accounts of the great speed we hear of on the American
livers. The Fire •King steamed from off George's Pier,
through the Victoria Channel, and against a spring flood
tide, to Beaumaris, a distance of 51 nautical miles, in 4 hours
and 5 minutes ; and 9 nautical miles for the flood, it gives 60
nautical miles through the water; this brought into statute
miles gives 16i ger. hour. Her passage back from Beaumaris
to the Rock -Fort, against a strong ebb, was 48 nautical miles
in 4 hours ; add 12 miles for the ebb, gives 60 nautical miles,
or 161 statute miles per hour. The day which from the state
of the weather) at first looked unpromising, brightened up as
the Fire King cleared the banks • and to the pleasing recol-
lection of having spent a day on board the fastest steam vessel
in
Europe, all who had that pleasure have to add the remem-
btarinaeticteeclif the hospitable and princely entertainment of their
talented, scientific, and truly worthy host, Robert Napier,
q., engineer, of 'Glasgow, and the owner of the Fire King.