The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-02-09 00:00:00

WATCH COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS

The opinion of the town clerk was read on several questions
proposed to him. Amongst others, he was of opinion that any
member of the council not a member of a committee had no
tight to demand to take extracts of the proceedings of such
Committee without the sanction of suAt committee.
Resolved that the four senior collectors should have £36. each
presented to them as a gratuity for their zeal in collecting the
lutes, and that the two junior collectors should each have
presented to them. It ass Stated that through the exertions of
Mr:- Capes Ashlin £9. 13s. per cent additional o❑ the whole
amount of the rates, or i 14500. had been collected, being an
increase of about £l5OO. on the lighting, and £3OOO. on the
sewerage rates.
A vacancy was announced in the office 'of beadle, the last
beadle having died.
The' AI A YOH stated that he had received information from the
corouer stating that a beadle should be appointed to summon
juries, and he had therefore sent 'to tt.e watch committee a
clunmunication to t ecommend -some person to act till the wish
of the council-should he known. The watch committee recom-
mended Archibald Baifnur as a fit persim to till the situatiou.
The Mayor then read a letter from Balfour statingthat hitherto
he had otilv received Policeman's wages, but he would be quite
satisfied with £BO.-per annual salary. Several recomoneuda-
tionS were 'also Inclosed. The Mayor also read applications for
the appointment front a person named 'Thomas Lyon and from
other two individuals. rte had put the whole question before
the council; and he awaited their pleasure to confirm or nut the
yeemntnendation 'of the finance committee to confirm the ap-
pointment.

After a short discussion the appointment of the watch com-
mittee was confirmed.

The proceedings of the Market Committee and Town hall
Committee were then confirmed:

CUSTOM-HOUSE COMMITTEE.

The deputy• TOWN-CLERK read the report of the architect as
to the expense of erecting the new Revenue Buildings, and the
causes which had conduced to the expense exceeding the origi-
nalestintate, as follows:

That as respected the completion of the buildings, he begged
to submit the following as a statement if the probable amounts.
of the several works required to be done, and which it would be
his study to endeavour not to exceed :—Masonry, £1593185;
Brick-work. £169185. 4d ; Joiners and Carpenters, £2112 19s.
10d; Painting £215 IBs. ld ; Plumbing and Glazing, £9BO
10s; Iron-work, £1735 13s. 31; Plastering, £1215 Is. 10d
Labourers' work, £250; Measuring, £150; Contingencies at 5
per cent, £421 4s; total, £BBl5 3s. 4d.
The paving and flat:ging of the area of Canning-place was
being executed by the coinnaissioners of paviw2, &c., accolding
to an arrangement between the Council's ctitunuttee and them,
and he believed the following were the proportions or the ex-
pense to which each party was liable: —Corporation, £2903185;
Commissioners; £1399 2s; total, £490.3.
The amount of the Corporation;s proportion arose from the
following additions to the width of the streets round the buddir,,i,
viz. :—North side, 10yi yaids; south side, 'Bl ; east end, 161 ;
west end, 161.
He then gave a summary of the foregoing statement,-as fol-
lows:

Cost of the revenue - buildings to the 31st October, 1837,
£219,366 4s. 6d ; probable_ cost of completing revenue build-
ings, £8845 3s. 4d; Cornoration Proportion of paving and flag-
ging, £2903 18s; total, £231,1155. 10d.
Expenseiof foundation, as executed in stone 'forty•two feet
8:1;
deduct estimated cost in brick and stone,
£l3 6gives for expense of foundation, £50,703
4d1e5e.1).27-6748 ,c(.3)(s 6)/1. whichoflsB
measurement not included in the original esti-
mate, the saute being done by the surveyors assistant, £1568t1;-
total, £51,156 1 Is. 103. •
Cost of buildings, exclusive .of. extra depth of foundation,
£172,958 14s; original eStimitte, £175,188 6s. 7d; excess £lO7O
75. 5,1.

n from circumstances which This excess was said to have arise
were not foreseen, (the necessity to chattge the nature of the
foundations,) and. not in the works connected with the build-
in;:ts above the depth of the foundations 'Originally contem-
plated, and y.hich did nut exceed the amount to a greater ex-
tent than could have been expected in works of so great mag-
nitude.

It was re,oived that there be a sufficient watch set by night
and day at the revenue buildings, to prevent the injury and nuis-
ances which are there committed; and that four watchmen be
appointed by night and day. •
Mr. Alderman BOOTH would now move that the council
_me-
morialize the Lords of the TreaSure, to remove the Stamp-office
to the Custom-house. He thought it would conduce touch to
the convenience of the public to concentrate all the revenue
offices in that building. Besides there *as another reason ; in
the act of parliament for the building of the custom-house there
was an express provision for the removal of the Stamp-office to
the Custom-house; and on the faith of that act the money was
lent for the building.
Mr. Councillor JORDAN seconded the notion. The
of persons requiring stamps had offices in'the neighbourhood of
the Custom-hour. majority
The motion was put and carried unanirrnusly. The mayor to
write a letter to the Lords of the TreasurN.
The proceedings of the committe., fur the pecuniary affairs of
the churches, were then confirmed.

BOROUGH COURT, AND COURT OF REQUISTS coHNIITTEE.
The 'l'owN-CLh►tx read the report. of this committee, Which
was
.ennfirrned.

" That the committee have found it expedient to remove for
misbehaviour, two officers of the Court of Request-, one a bailiff
of the court, and the other a summons clerk—these removals
being subject to the confirmation of the council..
"'That the committee have duly considered the special refer-
ence Made to them upon the reoort of the forrnercommittee, and
have proceeded thereon; but that they are not yet prepared to
report upon au alteration io the constitution of the Court of
Requests.
." That with reference to any such • alteration, and also.with
respect to the great alteration. in the law contemplated by the
bill before parliament for the abolition of imprisonment for-debt,
it may be necessary to petition parliament for leave to bring iu
a bill as to the Court of Requests.
"That this bill for!the abolition of imprisonment for debt may
also make it incumbent on the council, in due regard to the in-
terests of the public, to bring the Bufough Court before par-
liament, in order to obtain for its judgment the extent of power
against property of debtors, proposed, by the bill before par-
liament, to be given to the superior court in lieu of imprison-
ment.

" That the committee are advised that circumstances render
the present a fayonrable period for obtaining front the legisla-
ture other important improvements ill the powers and jurisdic-
tiona the Borough Court.

"That under all circumstances, the commute recommend
that they should be empowered to take the requisite measures
in the present session b) petitioning for bills but the committee
would wish to bring the subject fully and forcibly before the
council prior to any more expensive proceedings.
That the measure proposed would be attended with an ex-
pense not exceeding £50."

DOCK COMMITTEE PitocEEDINGS.

Resolved,—that owing to the great space occupied l,c vessels
navigated by steam, the aiWOUIII tonnage paid by them 18 not
sufficient.

Resolved, therefore, that a larger amount of tonnage be
charged, or that they be measured different from sailing vessels,
in order to afford adequate payment for the room required by
them.

The committee reported that the Formby light had parted
from her anchors on Sunday last. (luting the severe gale ; re-
solved, that proper anchors he provided.
Resolved,—that information be obtained as to the use of the
bell, at the hell-light.

The report of John Jones, the superintendent of the light
ship, as to the damage done to the vessel by
.the American
packet ship Independence,
Proceeding confirmed.
GAOL COMMITTER.
The TOWN-CLERK then read the report of the gaol committee
to the effect,

"That the surveyor had, since the last report, furnished them
with a second report on the subject of a Hospital for the Gaol,
on a scale toaccommodate 1G males and females, and his estimate
was within the limit before stated. They had also with his as-
sistance, made some alterations in the plinkas to the first in-
tended sites of the new buildings, and hm.l,e'-etecl hint to lay
before the Council the plan approved by them, The committee
strongly urged the necessity of immediately authorising the ex-
penditure for the improvements to the present prison. Respect-
ing the appointment of officers, the committee had proceeded
in accordance with the resolution of the Council of 221 of No-
vember last, referring these appoiotments to them (the com-
mittee,) The committee had selected ter recommendation to
the Council, the Rev. Dr. 1311( ks, to the office of chaplain of
the prison, in 'place of the hey. Wiustanley, deceased, to
hold his office in manlier provided by the Gewiral Gaol Act, of
4 G. IV. cap. 64, at the solary of £l5O per annum. together
with `Ea) per annum in lieu of a house, the latter allowance to
cease as a house is provided ; he to hold no oilier office or ap-
pointment whatever: subject also to the terms recommended by
the trustees, and approved by the CounLil on the 22nd Nu% etn-

Pt )01, STA NDA RD.

bet last, viz. that the chaplain s'atill devote the whole of his
time and attention to the prisoners in public and private, as
may be most advantageous to them, and especially in case the
system of separate confinement as contemplated by the Secre-
tary of State be carried into effect, the chaplain shall regu
larly visit in their cells, such prisoners as du not object to his
assistance in consequence of religious scruples, to afford them
religious and moral instruction. The committee further re-
commended Mr. John Ward Ramsden as a schoolmaster at the
Borough Prison, to hold his office during the pleasure of the
Council, at a salary of £BO. The committee limiter recom-
mended Mrs. Helen Norris as a schoolmistress for the Borough
Prison, at a salary of Ea/ per annum, residence in the prison,
and the same allowance as the female turnkeys, or with a fur-
ther pecuniary allowance instead of residence until the same
could be provided. The committee had entered into contracts
with Mr. William Aldersev, baker, and Mrs. Close, butcher,
for supplying the prison with bread, meal, and butcher's meat,
for the current year. They had effected these contracts after
publicly advertising for tenders, and the prices at which they
had contracted, would enable them at the end of the year, to
show a diminution in the prison expenditure iu these articles.
The court of trustees and the committee recommended to the
Council, that a vote of !batiks should be passed to the Rev.
George Stokes, for his zealous conduct during the ten mouths
he had ;Acted as officiating chaplain at the prison, and that the
pecuniary remuneration for his services should be the sum of
£2OO, being the amount of one year's salary now attached to
the office of chaplain."
The proceedings were then confirmed.
The MAYOR said he might perhaps take that opportunity of
correcting an erroneous impression respecting the conduct of
the gaoler, who was accused of harshness to the debtors. In
conformity with the resolutions of the 9th of Dec. last, the gaol
had been put under new regulations, and the debtors had acqui-
esced in the propriety of it. Formerly the debtors jail had been
a disgraceful and immoral place. He believed that the bench
of magistrates were of opinion that though the governor acted
with great firmness, he had acted with great humanity.
SAILOR'S HOME.
The MAYOR read the following communication front Mr.
James Aiken.

•` To the Mayor, Aldermen, &c,
"Gentlemen,—Among the various improvements which so
happily distinguish the present age, and particularly the town of
Liverpool, there is, perhaps, no class for whom so much might
be done, and for whom so little has been attempted, as for Bri-
tish seamen. There is no class more useful, none so friendless,
who earn their wages with su much hardship, and spend them
with so little benefit.

• " With the view to improve their character and condition, a
meeting of merchants, shipowners, and others interested in
their welfare, was lately convened at the Underwriter's Room,
when the resolutions herewith, were a4opted unanimously, and
a Provincial Committee appointed to carry those resolUtions
into effect. The Committee so appointed deem it their first duty
to apPly to the Town Council for aid and co-operation in this
important work, and they du so with the greater confidence,
impressed strongly with the belief that the protection of the
sailor will operate materially iu the prevention of crime.
" We abstain from entering into particulars here, but ate
prepared to shew that the-instances of detection bear no pro.
portion to the daily and hourly occurrence of the crime of plun-
dering seamen, the means thusobtained, sustaining a vast num-
ber of the worst characters, and producing effects most demo-
ralzing and prejudicial to the good government of the town.
Tu mitigate the evil it is proposed to erect a building, where
a large number of those seamen who choose to avail themselves
of it, may be accommodated with board and lodging, and medi-
cal advice, at a moderate charge, their characters be registered,
and where they may safely place their effects and money, which
may be drawn out as reluired, interest being allowed on the
deposit, so that they may enjoy all the benefits resulting from a
saving bank.
" When the sailor thus finds a value attached to his moral
worth, and the fruits of his labour secured, it is confidently ex-
pected that his habits will improve, and that those possessing
characters at such an establishment for seamanship, sobriety,
and good conduct, will meet a preference in the best employ,
and thus create a distinction between the bad, good, and indif-
ferent, a point in which the shipowners and seamen are deeply
interested; and that the objections which may at first be raised
will soon give way, when the advantages to be derived become
apparent.
Vv-e.are aware that the power of the Council to grant pecu-
niary aid is limited, and do not ask it, being confident of raising
a sum sufficient for erecting and fitting up a building by au
appeal- to the public. The object we have in addressing you is,
to solicit a grant of a prof Corporation ground, on which to
elect the building, taflifrisult as to its site, and as to the ar-
rangements proposed, and we beg that your Finance Com-
mittee, or a Committee appointed for the purpose, will receive a
deputation from us for the further consideration of the subject.
(Signed) - "JAMES AIKEN,
" Chairman of the Provisional Committee."
_ _

The resolutions referred to were as follows :

" At a highly respectable meeting of the merchants and ship-
owners, held at the Underwriters' Committee Room, on Friday,
the 22(1 instant, at two o'clock, for the purpose of considering
the expediency of establishing a Sailors' Home in Liverpool:
" John Cropper, jun., Esq., being called to the chair, the
following resolutions were unanimously carried:—_

Moved by George Grant, Esq., seconded by James Tyrer,
Esq.,—that it is desirable to establish in Liverpool a Sailors'
Home, where seamen may be provided with board and lodgings
at a moderate charge, where they may find protection front the
present Systeth of extortion to which they are exposed, and
where means may be taken for improving their moral condition.
Moved by James Aiken, Esq., seconded by Samuel Jub,
Esq.,•that a provisional committee be now appointed, to con-
sist of sixteen gentlemen, with leave to add to their number,
together with a treasurer and secretary; five members to form
a quorum; who shall obtain information as to the probable ex-
penses of a building and establishment fora Sailors' Home, use
their influence and 'exertion to obtain donations and subsciip-
tions, form a code of laws, and make a full report at a general
public ineeting:Jo be called as soon as practicable.
" The Billowing gentlemen were then appointed on the com-
'inittee :—SirJohn Salusbury, John Cropper, juu., Esq.; Henry
Sandbatt, Esq.; Edward Cropper, Esq.; George Grant, Esq.;
Adam Hodgson, Esq.; L. Heyworth, jun.. Esq.;, Thomas
Stuith,--Esq.; James Atkin, Esq.; Samuel Job, Esq.; John
Lewis Phipps, Esq.; H. C. Chapman, Esq.; Richard Harbord,
Esq.; John Clint, Esq.; Joshua Edwar4 Esq.; James `rpm,
Esq.
_ _

•
" Charles Cotesworth, Esq., Treasurer.
" Win. John Tomlinson, Secretary, pro tern."
The MA Yort said, perhaps the council would think it desirable
to refer to the finance committee.
The letter was then referred.
The TowN-ci:EaK said, it would be understood that there
would be the same legal difficulty as to a grant of land as to the
grant of money, and which made it necessary at the last session
to obtain powers, in their local act, to grant laud to St George
Hall and the Mechanics' Institution.
Mr. Councillor EA R LE—Did not the act include powers of
making giants for other public buildings? He thought there
was a clause to that effect.
The TOWN-CLERK said, he would examine the act : he had an
impression that Mr. Earle•was right.
Referred to the committee.
The MA you said the next was a letter from the Earl Of Derby,
stating that he had jet received the petition, for the total abo-
lition of slavery, from the Liverpool Town Council, but as it
might be some time before he should again be in London, and
have an opportunity of presenting it, he thought it better to re•
turn it.

Mr. Conn'cillor BLACKBURN begged to move that Lord
Brourh•nn present the petition.
Mr. JORDAN seconded the motion, which was unanimously
carried.

The Msvon said he had received a letterfrorn Lord Sandon,
acknowledging the receipt of the petition of the council against
slaverY, and stating that he would take the earliest occasion of
presenting it. He had also received a letter from Mr. Cress-
well, staling that a professional engagement bad called him to
Manchester, hut if his colleague had not presented the petition
he would take care that it should be presented on Thursday
(yesterday.)
A communication was read from the Churchwardens of St.
Thomas's Church, requesting the council to refund the sum of
£4O, given for certain seats for the ministers of St. Thomas's
Church, which had been destroyed by the late alterations in the
church.— Referred to the Finance Committee.
A communication was read from the churchwardens of St.
Michael's Church, respecting the erection of a gallery for the
children of the church.—Referred to the Finance Committee
to communicate with the Church Expenditure Committee, as to
the expediency of such a measure.
The TowN-ct,Enic said he was directed by the Chairman of
the Borough Court and Court of Requests Committee to state
that they would proceed immediately to fill up the vacancies of
the two officers dismissed.

THE POTTOFF ICE.
The MAYOR then called on sir. Rainsden to bring forward his
motion on the Postofflee, of which he had given notice.
Mr. Rastsuhl, then rose, pursuant to his notice, to bring for-
ward his motion on this subject. He commenced by reading an
extract froin the rennet of the commissioners appointed to in-
quire into the Postoffice, to the effect that facilities of delivery,
cheapness, safety, and quickness, were the ends required in a
postoffice. In asking the council to agree to his motion, he did
not intend that they should pledge themselves to any particular
()Pinions ou the question, which he intended to leave an open
one for-the consideration of the committee whom he should have
the honour to propose. He did not think that the Postoffice of
Liverpool should be the only establishment unreformed in this
town. They had made great reforms in their law courts, to the
advantage of the public at large—the offices filled by the mayor,
the town-clerk, and other public officers of the town-council.
had all been reformed, and, therekre, he did not see why they
should not enter into the question of Postoffice reform also. It
was very true the Postoffice was not under their immediate
control, but that council could use its great influence, which
was very great, in the correction of evils of which he complained,
and find some remedy for them; and the evils in the Postotliee
system were great he hoped he should be able to convince the
council before he sat down. Much had been said respecting the
private boxes, but he should enter into that as little as possible.
If he had the honour of serving on the committee of which he
should move the appointment, he would go into the committee
unprejudiced, and inquire whether they were requisite or not
with an unbiased mind; but if they were found to be necessary,
he did think that the Postoffice ought to give the accommodation
without expense, for he did not see why the town of Liverpool
should be taxed ,C2OOO per annum fair mere private emolument.
If they were necessary, and the committee to be appointed
thought they were, he -did think that the public should he re-
lieved from the tax of £2OOO a-year ; but as he had befure re-
marked, be would say hut little on that part of the subject, for
he knew it was touching part of. the question. One of his
principal oilects in bringing that question before the council
was, to do away with the necessity of sending young men to the
Postoffice, which occasioned great destruction of .principle.
They all knew the danger to young men when first brought into
their counting-houses, iu being put to keep "petty cash," and
" Postoffice cash," and in being compelled to idle away their
time an hour or two every day in waiting for the opening of the
Postoffice. They there gained acquaintances which they ought
never to make, and made arrangements- for passing their even-
ings which ought to be passed in the domestic circle. All com-
mercial men knew that they frequently had young men whose
principles were good when they left their parents, and who,
being intrusted with the Postoffice cash, made bad acquain-
tances aml were led astray. But that was not the only evil of
the present system. At the Postoffice crowds were assembled
every day which were a disgrace to the town; it was in fact so
large, and increasing as the town increased, and would continue
to increase, that if a reform were not effected ill's evil would
become so intolerable as to force public attention to it. (Loud
cries of " Hear, bear.") The crowd was daily so great as to
require the police to keep it in order, and he would ask arty one
there if they went for their letters whether they could approach
the office to receive them within less than a quarter of an hour
or twenty minutes, and running great risk of having their dress
so discomposed as not to be fit to appear in the public street.
He had gone fur his letters and been obliged to wan a consider-
able time, and he thought such a. state of things ought not to
exist. He would suggest a simple plan to. remedy this evil,
which, at the present time, was undigested in his own mind.
His plan was to increase the number of wards, and make a re-
ceiving house in every waid. that is, sixteen receiving houses.
He would have ono or more letter carriers attached to each, and
three mail carts t go with the bags at stated times from the
central Postoffice, one to the north, another to the south, and

one to the centre of the ;own, for the purpose of taking and re-
ceiving the bags coivaining all letters deposited in the Postoffice
or receiving houses during, their absence. It [night be said that
he was el-eating sixteen Post offices in the tow•n—

Mr. Councillor BA itcLAy here rose, and suggested to Mr.
llamsdeu the propriety of reserving these details for the com-
mittee. Mr. Rams(len had declared that he did not mean to
press the council to anything but the appointment of a corn-
mil tee, before whom those remarks would be much better made,
and he submitted to Mr, Ramsdell the propriety of reserving
them for that committee. He merely suggested this to Mr.
Ramsdeu for his consideration, to go on or nut as he thought
proper.
Mr. Councillor RIOUSDEN had no objection to do so, if it
were the opinion of the council that he ought to reserve them-
for the committee; but, for himself, he thought the subject of
so much importance to the public at large, who really did not
understand the question, that-he begged to differ with Mr.
Barclay. He thought he ought in some degree to develope the
plan of Mr. Rowland Hill for postuffice reform. ,(Cries of "Go,
on, go on.") _ • . _ _

The MAYOR observed that Mr. Ramsden was already in pos
session of the chair, and must use his own discretion.

Mr. Councillor lianasden continued. They had a population
in each ward of from 10,000 to 15.000 individuals, who ought to
have this convenience, though it might be called a number of
postriffices. He thought it possible that four wards in the neigh-
bourhood of the Postoffice might not require to be visited by the
cants. but there were twelve that ought to be consulted; and
they had no right to think of the increased expense, because
that ought to be borne by the Postoffice, which received quite
sufficient from the public to enable them to afford the required
additional accommodation. He would not say more on the local
Postoffice reform, but proceed at once to notice Mr. R. Hill's plan,
on which l►e could not consent to be brief, because he believed
it was not fully known by the public at large and by that council;
few, indeed, that he hail spoken with on the subject were really
acquainted with it. He had been anxious that it should be
brought before the council by seine gentleman of more influence
than himself, and therefore he had sent it to the Reform Com-
mittee, desiring that it might be entrusted to some influential
member; but it had not so been taker. up, and he therefore felt
it his duty to bring it forward, and he now introduced it because
he believed it was not really understood by the public and by that
council. Petitions had already been presented to the House of
Lords on the subject by the London merchants and Bankers,
iu which they stated—
" That it is of high importance to the success of the commerce,
manufactures, and agriculture of this country, and to the pro-
motion of civilization in every form, that communication by post
should be swift, certain and cheap.
"That although such communication is now generally certain,
yet owing to the frequency of transmission, and to the slowness
of delivery, it is not 80 swift:as it readily Might 4)e, and it is not
cheap.

"That these great evils ofslowness and darkness are not pro-
ductive of any advantage to the revenue sufficient to counter-
balance their injurious effects.
"That as regards the latter evil in particular, your petitioners
are decidedly of opinion that the dearness of postage, instead of
being beneficial to the revenue, is positively injurious to it,
owing to the great amount of illicit carriage of letters under the
preSent system, and to the great extent to which communication
is altogether prevented.
"That so powerful have been the causes acting against the
Postoffice revenue, the chief of which being the high rate of
postage, that during the last twenty years, whilst population has
increased one-third, and education and commerce in a greater
rare, the receipts from the Pustoffice have not increased at all."
Signatures—the lord mayor, bankers, merchants, &c.
That petition was presented by Lord Ashburton, better known
as Mr. Baring, by whom it was warmly supported. The peti-
tion. he (Lord Ashburton) remarked, was on the subject of the
Post-office, a most important subject, yet one much neglected :
the present rates of postage disturbed social life, and strewed
impediments in the way of science; he considered a tax on the
transmission of letters, where carried to the extent it was in this
country, to be most ill judged and pernicious. The system re-
quired thorough reconsideration, and an entire reform. He re-
commended a pamphlet to particular perusal, written by Mr.
Rowland Hill; that pamphlet confirmed his impression that the
grievances complained of might be remedied without asacrifice
of the revenue. The remedies suggested by that gentleman
were-Ist, A great reduction of charges; 2d, The payment of
charges in advance ; 3d, The equalization of the rate of
charging. The expense of a Post-office establishment was the
same whether the letters were conveyed twenty miles or two
hundred miles:the only difference caused by distance being the
simple expense of conveyance; and Mr. Hill, in his pamphlet,
had shown that the expense of carrying a letter to Edinburgh
amounted only to a small fraction of a farthing. It was, there-
fore, an injustice to persons in distant towns to impose on them
the present charges. Mr. Hill proposed that no payment should
be made at the Post-office, but that covers or stamped envelopes
should be purchased to carry the letters free. Mr. Hid calcu-
lated that a penny for a letter not weighing more than one
ounce would prove sufficient. The government ought to give
the matter their consideration, if it were only from the fact that
the revenue was injuriously affected by the present system.
Lord Ashburton further observed, that whilst the consumption
of soap had increased one-third in the same time, tea one-half,
silk goods doubled, coffee more than tripled, cotton goods four-
fold in twenty years, yet the Post-office, in 1815, was £1,557,291,
and in 1835 £1,540,300, being a small decrease of nett revenue,
instead of a large increase during the same period. Another in-
stance Mr. Hill brings forward, which is very striking, the stage
coach duty was in 1815 £1,557,221. -and in 1835 was £1.550,000,
being an increase in 20 years of £2,000,0110, whilst no increase
whatever, but the contrary has taken place in the Post-office
revenue. If it be granted, then, that the demand for the con-
veyance of letters has increased during the last twenty years in
the same ratio as that for the conveyance of persons and parcels,
which can scarcely be doubted, it follows inevitably, that.
from some cause or other, there is in effect a loss in the
Post-office revenue of two millions. In France, where the rates
of postage are nut so exorbitant as in this country, the gross
receipts are said to have increased from nearly £960,000 iii
1821, to £1,480,000 in 1835, or 54 per cent, in fourteen years.
'The loss of the revenue is, however, far from being the most
serious of the injuries inflicted on society by the high rates of
Postage. When it is considered how much the religious, moral,
and intellectual progress of the people would be accelerated by
the unobstructed circulation of letters. and of the many cheap
and excellent publications of the present day, the post-office
assumes the new and important character of a- powerful•engine
of civilization, capable of performing a distinguished part in the
great work of national education, but rendered feeble and ineffi-
cient by erroneous financial arrangements. In addition to the
increased correspondence, which, front the causes already stat-
ed, would arise, it must be carefully borne in mind, that tbis
species of communication would be made accessible to new
classes, and those very numerous ones—domestic servants for
instance, who constitute one of the most numerous classes of
labourers, are, in general, so far removed from their friends, as
to have little opportunity of personal communication, and when
to this we add, the separation occasioned by marriage, appren-
ticeship, the necessity of seeking employment, going to school,
&c., we shall probably come to the conclusion, that there are
few families to be found throughout the country, and more espe-
cially in the manufacturing districts, without some membei,
or at least some relative, being so circumstanced as to create
a desire for communication by letter. Mr. Hill alludes parti-
cularly to our respected townsman Mr. Thriruely, the member
fur Wolverhampton,'who stated to him, that at the Wolver-
hampton post-office, he was surprised to leant what a large
number of letters were detained for pour periple, until they can
raise the postage. The letter-carriers offer them in the first in-
stance, and then they remain in the post-office perhaps two or
three weeks, until the postage can be raised. There were, too,
in this town, a class who had no means, from their poverty, of
communicating with their friends—a class forming a popula-
tion of from 50,000 to 60,000 natives of Ireland, who, to com-
municate with their friends, must incur au expense of fitteen
pence, when, probably, their wages were not more than 4s. or
ss. a week; for the sake, therefore, of those 50,000 or 60,000
emigrants alone, he would advocate reforms which he then
stood up to urge upon their attention. tie could also go on and
call their attention to what had been stated by Mr. Porter, of
the statistical department of the Board of 'Trade, who said,—
that, in the present and future condition of society in this coun-
try, post communication may be placed amongst the wants
of the poor, but it is a want which now must, for time most part,
be left ungratified. He says, "The opportunities which I have of
procuring franks, enable me to contribute towards keeping alive
feelings of kindness and affection on the part of separated rela-
tives, which might otherwise become blunted or obliterated by
disuse. May we not presume that many young persons of both
sexes, who are continually drawn to this metropolis from distant
parts of the kingdom, and are thenceforth cut off from commu-
nication with their early guardians might, under different cir-
cumstauces, be kept from entering upon vicious courses, to
which the temptations are so great, and against which the re-
straints in their case are so few. He says further, facts have
come to toy knowledge tending to show, that but for the high
rate of postage, many a letter would be written, and many a
heart gladdened too, where the revenue and feelings of friends
now stiffer alike. In one instance with which 1-became ac-
qualified, a brother and sister had suspended intercourse for
nearly thirty years—that they were deterred solely by considera-
tions of expense is proved by the fact, that on franks being given
to them by an M.P., a frequent interchange of letters was the
immediate consequence." The distribution of the Penny Ma-
gazine is an incontrovertible proof of how touch postage may be
reduced. The Magazine is sent to every part of the kingdom,
and in considerable towns is distributed at the houses of the
subsCribers; but the penny charged for the Magazine includes
not only the cost of distribution, but the cost of eight large pages
of letter-press and wood-cuts, and yet it is well known that the
undertaking is a profitable one. In the neighbourhood of Bir-
mingham, to a distance of twelve or thirteen miles, the carriers
are in the constant habit of conveying letters which they deliver
at one penny each. It is very improbable that the carriers have
any well-organized system of distribution, of course. therefure,
they Must be paid something fur time risk of breaking the law.
Yet from the open manner in which they proceed, the risk may
just be as great. It is the opinieu of a bights' respectable mer-
chant and manufacturer of Birmingham, that the number of
letters distributed by these means very greatly exceeds, in his
opinion, the number sent by the post. Mr. Hill goes on to say,
that with respect to contraband conveyance, it is beyond all
doubt that it is carried on to a great extent. It is well known
that in many parts of the country vast numbers are every
day forwarded by carriers and coach-proprietors. Not long
ago a seizure took place in a carrier's warehouse of a bag con-
taining twelve hundred—almost all parcels, especially such as
are sent at stated times, contain letters, and not unfrequently
large packets are sent by coach, consisting of letters alone.
Mr. Hill then says, "'That fortunately this is not a patty ques-
tion; men of eminence in each political party having expressed
the House
a
themselves favourable to great changes—such as time Luke of
Richmond, Earl Spencer, and Lord Ashburton, in h
Or Lords; and Lord Lowther, Mr. Hume, Air. Wallace,h Mve
r,
Warburton, and many others of the House of cumnus
declared themselves in favour of extensive reforms. The object
in this proposed reform is not to increase the political power of
this or that parry, but to benefit all sects in politics and religion,
and all classes from the highest to the lowest. To the rich, as to
the least wealthy, it will be acceptable, from the increased
facilities it will afford for their correspondence. To the middle
classes it will bring relief from oppressive and irritating de-
mands, which they pay grudgingly, and which they will consider
intolerable when they are told that neatly the whole charge is a
tax ; and, as has been before expressed, to the poor it will afford
the means of communication with their distant friends and rela-
tives, from which they are at present debarred. it „AI give
increased energy to trade; it will remove innumerable tempta-
tions to fraud ; and it will be an important step to general edu-
cation, the more important, perhaps, because it culls on govern.
mart, still less of compulsion, hut merely for the 17ettroval of au
obstacle created by the law to that spontaneous education which
happily IS extending through the country, and which even the op-
ponents of a national system will agree ought to be unobstructed
in its progress." lie trusted Jar- hail said enough to convince the
ceuncil of the necessity of inquiring into the Postaiffice system,
not only local but general, and he did trust, as he should con-
clude with a motion in general terms, pledging no gentleman
to any particular line of conduct, that the committee for which
he asked would be appointed The plan of Mr. Hill was this :
"That time mete carriage of a letter to time most distant place costs
only the fraction °fa farthing, and the management and expenses
of the Postoffice added. makes the postage of a letter to cost not
more than Id. to 11. That the expenses of Post-off,e,..matiage
ment may be inaterially reduced by the Stamp,oilice issuing
stamped envelopes, at Id for each letter, as letters taut having

Fi•BittlAltY 9, IS3B.

the postage to collect may be delivered with so much facility,
thatiiii Lombard-street 570 have been delivered in half an how,
whilst it took an hour and a half to deliver 67 letters, when the
postage was collected at the time of delivery—or two minutes
for each, letter. This saving of time would allow the present
Post-office establishment to do a much larger business, therefore
an increase of business would not bring any increase of expense,
and therefore all increase of business would be clear profit to
the revenue. His calculation was that the increase of business
would be fourfold, thereby making the same revenue to the
k rovernment as it received at present. The revenue, in the year
1815, was £1,557,291, and in the year 1835, not more than
£1,540,300, being a small amount less than twenty years ago.
With these general remarks he should conclude, as he was
merely moving for a committee of inquiry. A great number of
public bodies had taken up the question, amongst whom were
the common council of London, the chambers of commerce of
Edinburgh, Dundee, and Hull, and by the common council of
Aberdeen, and many other important bodies; and he hoped
therefore that the committee would be appointed. To secure
unanimity he had in some measure changed his motion, and he
now simply 'moved, that a committee should be appointed to
inquire into the postoffice system, local as well as general. It
pledged no gentleman to any opinion, awl if he had the honour
to be appointed, he would go ino the inquiry without any pre-
judice whatever.

Mr. JOHN SMITH rose to order. He thought it was not in
order for a gentleman to give notice of one motion and bring
forward another.
The MA (OR said if the motion were to the effect of the notice
it was quite in order.
Mr. EARLE said the difficulty could easily be got rid of by
moving the present motion as an amendment on that for which
notice had been given.
The MAVort said that they were not bound by the mere
words of the motion, and that, he believed, was the usual course
in another place. (We understood him to allude to the House
of Commons.)
Mr. Councillor BRIGHT thought it was necessary to give no-
tice of a motion for quarterly meetings; Mr. Ramsden need
not, therefore, confine himself to the notice.
The TOWN-CLERK said, as to the question of notice, if it were
given in terms so particular as to put them on their guard it
was quite sufficient.
The MAYOR said the question, as now proposed, was for the
appointment of a committee to inquire into the post-office sys-
tem, local as well as general.
Mr. BARCLAY seconded the motion in a brief speeth.
Mr. EARLE thought it was as well that the question was re-
ferred to a committee, but regarding the heavy rate of postage
in this country, he did not see why they should not immediately
memorialise the government. The question was now under the
consideration of government, and if they waited till the next
monthly meeting it might be determined. It was right that so
extensive a commercial town should express its opinion to go-
vernment, with whom it would doubtless have some weight.
He should be very happy to move that the committee be autho-
rized to prepare a memorial on the subject, the Mayor to affix
the seal.

Mr. JOHN SMITH then rose to oppose the motion in tote He
would occupy but little of their valuable time, for the merits of
the case, if merits there were, were in a' narrow compass. As
regarded the boxes of the post-office, he apprehended as they
were private arrangements between the postmaster and the
merchants, for the convenience of the latter, they (the council)
had no right to interfere. If the merchants themselves did not
find accommodation from that plan, it would lung since have
been abandoned; they had no complaints from the aterehants_,
and, therefore, interference on their part was uncalled fur. With
regard to Mr. Ramsden's wish not to have the boxes done away
with, but have the charge removed from the parties at present
paying, he must say, such an idea was preposterous, for if his
wishes were complied with, every individual in the habit of re-
ceiving letters would req,uire a box, and then the Custom-house
itself would not be sufficient to find accommodation. (Hear!-)
As to the extra- number of receiving-houses, he doubted not
when the post-office was removed to the new custom-house, the
proper authorities would attend to it; and as the subject of post-
office reform was under the consideration of her majesty's go-
vernment, he thought a memorial would be altogether prema-
ture and uncalled for. Holding these opinions, he should meet
the motion with a direct negative, arid he begged to move, that
it be taken into consideration that day six months.
Mr. Councillor WOOD seconded the amendment.

Mr. Alderman BROWN did not subscribe to the doctrine hinted
at that day, and mentioned distinctly at the last meeting of the
council, that they should entertain questions only of a local na-
ture ; for when matters of great interest were brought before
the government of the country, he thought it the duty of that,
the second commercial town iu the world; to express to govern-
ment the views they entertained ou what affected the interests
of the public at large. He h,ul viewed that question with deep
interest, and he did consider the pamphlet of Mr. Hill one of
the most valuable that had come under his observation. He
had also consulted his friends, and frmn all he could learn, the
advantages of the proposed reform were thought so great that
uothiug ought to be left undone that that council could do to
stimulate the government to carry into effect; even ifa special
council had been called to uaemorialise the government on the
subject, he thought they would not have been stepping out of
their way. lie hoped they would grant the committee, and
thereby assist in convincing government of the great importance
of the qc
Mr. CURRIE thought the council could hardly be prepared to
pass the motion, for if they at this day should sit down and form
themselves into a committee to inquire into the Post-office sys-
tem, the general Post-office being situated 200 miles off—for the'
motion asked for an inquiry general as well as local—they
would be entering on a task totally out of their power. If they
were to attempt to carry that motion into effect they would be-
come ridiculous to their country. If Mr. ltamsden thought it
advisable to try the system of Mr. Rowland Hill, be, for one,
would gladly agree to memorialize in Its favour, but it was im-
possible they could enter into a general inquiry. As to the local
inquiries at present he should nut go at 'length into that ques-
tion, but with respect to the tax of £2OOO which it had been said
they were called upon to pay—though he thought the sum over-
stated—he agreed with Mr. John Smith that it was a voluntary
tax, and the convenience which it purchased was so great that
if the town were canvassed on the subject he thought the ma-
jority would be in favour of its continuance. He thought it im-
possible to deliver letters so quickly and conveniently as now,
when the merchants could at once ascertain whether they had
letters or not by looking at their box. He hoped Mr. Ramsdell
would revise his motion as to the general inquiry; and as to the
local inquiry, changes were about to be made at the Postoffice,
by its removal to the Custom-louse buildings, and government

was exhibiting a disposition to give Mr. Ro'i:viand Hill's plan a
gradual trial. But a revenue of £1,600,000 a-year was not
lightly to be trifled with. •
Mr:Councillor BOLTON, said, from the terms of the motion
it was his intention to oppose it; but if Mr. liamsden would
consent to make it an inquiry of a local nature, whether better
means could not be adopted to facilitate the delivery, and to
petition parliament for a diminution of the expense of postage,
he would concur in the object, though at the same time he
thought some observations had been made that were not war-
ranted. He maintained that the boxes were a great public con-
venience, and that the merchants got their letters half an hour,
or perhaps an hour, sooner than they would by a general deli-
very. American packets were frequently arriving in a port like
this, and at the present moment American news was of great
interest; now, merchants might have that American news at
their offices within twenty minutes after the Post-office bad
opened, but if they were to be delivered they could not have
them for an hour. He had spoken with some brokers on this
subject, who received large remittances by letter, and one had
remarked to him that if the letters were to be delivered by
carriers he would send a person to Manchester to receive his
letters there, and come will, them by the railway train. The
mode of having boxes was useful; but if Mr. ltauasden would
limit his inquiry to what local arrangements could be made, and
what reduction could be effected in the rate of postage, he would
agree with him.

-Mr, AideWe; EVANS opposed the appointment of any com-
mittee as unnecessary. He agreed that it was quite quite well
to give government a hint to look into the mode of improving
the general establishment, either by Mr. Rowland Hill's plan
or an improvement on that plan ; but he could not conceive the
necessity for a committee, and he would recommend the dis-
posal of the question there at once. With regard to the com-
mittee for a local inquiry, he considered Mr. Ramsden's object
was to have the merchant's letters handed to carriers, and deli-
vered at their offices. (" No, no," and " Yes, yes.")
Mr. Councillor RAMSDEN said he simply asked for a com-
mittee of inquiry, without pledging himself or the council to
any plan in particular.
Mr. Alderman EVANs.—Well, if they were to go to govern-
ment and ask them to intrust the merchants letters to carriers,
they would place themselves before government in a very inde-
corous situation, because, the merchants getting their own letters
was a leading argument with them to get the Post-office removed
to the new Custenn-house buildings. But the idea of meddling
with the local arrangements, when it was likely, with the change,
that there would be an enlargement of the number of clerks, and
great alterationsin the new edifice—was, to say the least, ream-
tore. With regard to the doing away with the alphabet (boxes,) by
which the merchants bad great convenience, and which the rest
of the public had not, because they needed it not, be believed it
was a convenience which the merchants had on the cheapest
possible terms. The idea of giving merchants' letters into the
hands of carriers, and entrusting to them the important cor-
respondence on which sometimes the very existence of houses
depended, was preposterous; whereas, if they allowed them to
lie in the boxes as at present, they were either delivered to the
principal, who was well known, or to a young man who was hi-s
recognised servant. But if they delivered letters to a hundred
counting-houses, by one carrier, be must begin with one, and
-what then would be the position of the hundredth, while he was
delivering the letters to the other ninety-nine, and receiving his
postage ? There were cases where a man who received hie
letter, in the first instance, might avail himself of the oppor-
tunity to make his fortune at the cost of the man who received
his letter in the last instance, by getting his information earlier.
But they must recollect, that if a number of mercantile houses.
were always open, there was also a number of minor offices,
with limited establishments, which were locked up at particular
hours. Attendance might be required on the quay with goods
going out and goods received, and they might not have clerks—
perhaps they could not afford a sufficient number to have one
always there when the postman called, and what then was he to
do with the letters ? (Jr perhaps the office might be open, and
there might be nobody in but a little dirty boy that they would
not trust with their letters, or money to pay the postage. in
that case he would go on, and when the principal or his clerk
returned, he would be at a loss to know where the carrier was
to be found, and instead of the letter-carrier facilitating the
receipt of communications, be would he found to he an obstruc-
tion. Now, they were all able to go to the Postoffice and
receive their letters, not from the hands of a letter-carrier, who
would deliver them to number one to the delay of ninety-nine.
As he could not conceive any alteration as yet contemplated by
Mr. Ramsden that would nut be a positive injury, he conceived
the appointment of a committee would be altogether a loss of
time, and therefore he should oppose it. With regard to the
other question; giving government an admonition, or letting
them know that we took a very great interest in the improve.
anent of the Postoffice establishment, he would concur in it ;
but he conceived it was not necessary to refer it to a committee
at all, except to draw up the address.
Mr. Councillor BRIGHT said that in all the observations made
he had only heard one interest mt.ntioned, forgetting that there
was a great mass of inhabitants and tradesmen besides. He
was willing that the merchants should have every facility af-
forded them ; they were, of course, the first interest in the town,
arid they (the council) had done all they could for the acrern-
modatien of that body, by procuring the removal of the Post-
office to the new buildings in Canning-place. But still the
question interested a large mass whose interests ought not to
be lost sight of. He did not mean to go into the question at
length, nor into that respecting the rate of postage; he should
confine himself to the local interests of the inhabitants at large.
Mr. liainsden Contemplated that there should be a large umn-
ber of receiving-houses and letter-carriers, and ha (Mr. Bright)
felt obliged to him for bringing the question before the council,
but which he was of opinion would be much better discussed in
corninittee than in that ire nri.
Mr. Councillor Pe tusTt.,ev wished to ask if the letters in
London were not delivered with us much punctuality and as
early or earlier than here. Thirty years ago it was the plan to
have boxes iu London, and the present system of deliver y there
had been adopted in order to relieve the pressure from the win-
dow. which was so great that the young men had uo chance of
reaching for a length of time, and it was found necessary to
send their porters rather than their young men, to make their

FEBiIUARY 0, 1 SAS,

way through,the crowds- that collected, and now the pressure itt
"re Liverpool was become nearly as bad ; but the
estahl.i,barmit• of a system of delivery; as in London,
cause.the letters to be delivered. with as much cdespatch as at
present, without the• inconvenience now complained of.
Mr. Coot.A N agreed with a previous speaker that it W:l9 ne-
cessary to proceed with this husimr, as it was now under the
consideration of her msjesty's government, and if deferred, any
sug,V,e.stion they might have to offer might be too late. Before
they separated, therefore, he desired they should agree to give
au expression Of the sentiments of the common council of-Li-
verpaol to government•thereon ; and anything emanating, from
that, the second town•in the empire, would receive due respect..
He concluded with moving as an amendment that "we respect-
fully recommend the .early attention of her majesty's govern-
ment to make such changes in the post-odice establishment as
Will tend to reduce the expense of postage, and to protno:e ra-
pidity cif delivery.

Mr. Councillor BLAcKauav agreed with Mr. Coglan, but he
thought a committee ought to he aopoioted also.
• Mr. Councillor 11,Amsoi briefly replied, and the council
then divided on Mr. Smith's amendment, that the notion be
read that day six. months.

For• the amendment
Against it

Majority 5
Mr. Councillor EA RLE atill was -desirous toat a memorial
should be sent to government, strongly impressing upon them
the necessity of a reductiiin in the rate of postage; anti that
Mr. Rowland Hill's, or some other similar plan should he
adopted, and ge should have no objection to a committee re-
specting the local system.
The MA Vol4.—Then do you move an amendment on the ori-
nal-motion ?
A desultory conversation as to order followed, Mr. Mnrecroft

wishing to separate the two questions of local and general
Post-office system, The MaVor inquired if he had intended to
c.onciude with an amendment, to which he replied that he was,
and Mr. Currie said that he had got one-too. (Laughter.)
Mr. Councillor MoaEcuorr then moved—“: That the com-
mittee now prepare a.triemorial to her Majestv,• to carry into
effect the plan of Mr. Rowland Hill for Post-office reform, and
to sanction such . plans as may be 'necessary for carrying that
inirpose into effect."
The :Maxon.—That throws' the moiion of Mr. Ramsden

overheard. (Cries of " hear Mr. Currie.") •
Mr, Councillor CURRLE briefly proposed another amendment
to the effect that a comalittee be appointe.l to consider whether,
in the arrangements for- the projected removal of the Post-
office, some better arrangement could not be made for the re-
duction of the postage, and for the gradual trialof Mr. Rowland
plan of Poit-Office reforM.
111 r. Councillor BOLTON seconded the amendment. . •
Mr. Councillor EARIE suogested the omission of the word
it •
• gradual." It had been stated by Lord Brougham, that the
.trial of the.government was no- trial.atall.
The MA voa.—Does Mr. Morecroft abandon ,his-atnendthent
or perse'vere ?
Mr. Councillor MonEcneFT.—l leave it to Mr. Currie.
-The *MAYOR —Then dries Mr: Currie take Mr.
suggestion, and leave out the word gradual."
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—Let me recommend Mr. Currie not
tr.limit his.resolution to the trial of Mr. Rowland Hill's plati.-
but to extend it to any other that promises to. be efficient. -•
Mr. BLACKBURN opposed Mr: Currie's amendment, became
it combined two parts concerning Which gentlemen might differ.
To the part pledging the council to a local inquiry he objected,
though he,would•agreelo meumrialige. -
Mr. Alderman EVANS said the matter which Mr. Earle had
suggested pressed, the other did not press.
,Mr. Councillor CURRIK lutd no objection to separate the two
questions, and go to. the most iinportant, to tnernorialize fir a
general reduction of postage, and the adoption of Mr. Rowland
plan of reform, or some other plan. He concluded witu
Proposing."that a committee be appointed to prepare a memo-
rial to parliament in favour of seine reduction of the general
postage, and in favour of Mr. Rowland or some other
measure of Postoffice reforti which might be.better.
, Mr. Councillor EA it LE would be happy to second it.
Mr. Councillor RAmsDEN wished to ask whether they were
to have a committee on the local post at all.
After some further conversation it was determined, on the
suggeitimi 'of Mr: Birch, to put Mr. Currie's amendment, and
leave Mr. Ramsden to follow it up with his-motion. The amend-.
tient was then put, and carried unanintous'y.
Mr. Councillor RA MSDEN then • beg4ed to move "that a COM-
tnittee be appointed to inquire whether any arrangement can he
Made to give additional facility to the distribution-of letters.
Mr. Alderman EVANS moved as an amendment,,that this he
deferred -till after the removal of the Post-effice, to give the
Postoffice an opportunity of developing its -arrangements.-
MI. Councillor Bot,ToN thow,ht it out fair -awl irregular to
Come to an arrangement with Mr. Ramsden that they would
adOpt his motion after the other ameadnietit was carried, and
then attempt, to set it aside by another amendment.
The MAyria said it might be inconvenient, but it was not
irregular.
Mr..Councillor HEYWORTN: said they seemed lost amongst'
Motions and amendments. (Laughter.).
After some further desultory conversation,.amidst loud cries
of '° vote," Mr. Joseph Horuhy seconded Mr. Evans' 'amend-
Mem, when there appeared on the division—for the amendment
I.9,'•.against, it 23; for the motto. 2.3, against it 18. „Mr. Rams-
dell's Motion fur a committee was therefore carried..
A,committee was then appointed. cuirsisting-of Messrs-. Bar-
clay; Brown, Earle, Thos. Smith; Itanisden, Evans, and Streit

RATING OF•SII.ALL TENEMENTet 131 LL., .
Mr. Councillor Coo eER lose to bring forward his. motion on
this subject, at the request of a numerous and highly respecta-
ble, class of the community -of Liverpool—the cottage-owners.
He beggeti 111 draw attention to the points of the motion which
Ite, tsad given. The object of it was to petition par.iarucut
op... Oust •the hill introduced by Sir Henry Verney, to assess
the awners of cottages rented at twenty pounds and rinder,
instead of the Occupiers.. The grounds on which the bill was
founded were two—the great difficulty in collecting the-rates,
Etna the great loss in them,- If he could-show the council that
there had.been, difficulty in collecting the rates.afrlarge- free-
rnents; and that the rates were avoided, he hoped*. should have
the council with hint to petition against so cruel a bill.. There were
upwards of 9000 houses above £2O a Year rent; and-upwards of
1000 had not paid their rates. And the -loss tar large property.
'"-teeetling £2O a year rent in 1336, was £5209,15.5-4 nom-
ber:of houses.of £.lO rent 'ind''under £2U; was- 13,123, -whilst.the
loss of. collectable rates was .'").63,3 19s. It was --true that.not
ono tenth of the latter houses paid any tate, int‘it Was also tine
that thex.were occupied by persons of the lokveit.:dsscription,
ft-taw:whom the parish 'did not think tit to call' for:any rates.
tkcontendedlt'would Moat -unfair to have-tine law for the.
I-eh landlord, and another' roi- the poor: They: liad• been told
4n 1832, by certain wise parish legislators, that they's-hould have
the-rates-reduced to Is. 3d., or Is. 6d, in the pound; by-collt-ct•
lag all those rates. The plan bad been tiled by the local
11331. In 1830.- the amount of pauper; in the workhouse was
1142, and their cost £10,927 9s. 3-1., and by this. tneasore, in.
1832, . the number was augmented- to 1980, and • the -cost to
1r14,69. 2 4s. 24., being an excess over the former year of
1:3161 Its. 7d. 1m.1830, the out-door poor cost £13,505.145. ;
in- .1832, £17,533 -193' 24., being an excess of £40'22 4s. 7d.
fiver the former year, thr-ongh the working of this bill. Thus,
instead of decreasing the rates 64 - in the pound,-taey • had in-
creased them 6d. in the pound. He contenlled,-that-theinvorer
_Cottages were a. kind of out-door workhouse, w4iei'e. persons
supported themselves without paying rates; it was very well;
and that the local bill had broken down the good lepliug which
formerly existed bet Ween landlord and tenant. The new
building act had put a stop- to building cottages, and would
drive the poor into cellars.- He concluded with moving that the
Petition which he presented, be adopted by the council.
M. LAWRENCE seconded the motion.
The TOWN-CLERK read the petition.
. Mr. Councillor EARLE thought it too much to call upon the
council to adopt it unless they had the means at once to aseer-
tain that all the statements it contained were nue.

Mr. WALMSLEY, without entering into the provisions of Sir
harry Verney's bill, whether their were jnsr or not, contended
that the council ought not to interfere in the matter. There
was much difference of ()pinion out of doors, and if they ad-
mitted that as a precedent, what could they expect but that smile.
gentleman or other would be often coating there with some
principle or Other—some partisan would come there and see the
council to take up - similar measures, by which great injury
would be done to the council in the opinion of the constituency
out of doors. (Ilear.) However, if the council determined to
go into the question, he reserved his right to reply to the state-
ments of Mr. Cooper, which he thought incorrect, and to
others from which false conclusions were drawn But when he
reflected on the acts of that gentleman (Mr. Cooper) since he-
had had a seat in that council. (Loud cries of " Order, order,.
Chair, chair:") He was only about to refer them to. certain
nets which 'had taken place fur the purpose of entba.rrassi9g the
council.
The MA you-interposed, and said he thought it was -usual
idle council not to impute motives to another;
401-roN rose to order, and called upon Mr. ViTalmsley to
keep to the question.
. Mr. WALMSLEY submitted'. to the call made upon him, and.
proceeded to argue that Mr. Cooper's statements, on intro-
ducing, his motion, were not fcivaded on correct prginises;-and
protested against the council taking up the questiOn—lle,
howeVer, expressed his concurrence with Mr. Cooper, that any
act of the legislature which was for the advantage of one party,
and oppressive to another was incorrect iu pi'inciple; and be
would go with Mr. Cooper or env other gentlemaoto petition
that the ptovisious-of such a bill should apply equally to all.
(Hear.)
Mr. Alderman EveNs also opposed Mr, Cooper's
,Molioh at
some length, contending that-the blending of the tax With the
rent was a,great blessing tuthe lower orders. 'They would 'Own
prOvide for both its one as they knew one must lie paid, He
.contended that cottage property ought to pay equal litxes witty
other property, as it received equal protection..
. Mr. Councillor COI/PER said, in the late discussion respect-
ing negro apprenticeship he had a precedent for th'e introduc-'
tion of his motion.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN justified the council for enter-
.
tainitig the question .of negro, slavery, heCanse there was a pros-
pect.of something approaching to unanimity, and because at
was a great principle of morals. But they shotild T not -make
themselves ton cheap, and take up questions on which thera.was_
such a wide difference of opinion out of doors, and which were
qot of the greatest importance, otherwise they would lose their •
.
influence with the legislature. •
Narious objections having been made to statements in the pe-
lltion, Mr. Cooper withdrew it, with the consent of the coun-
cil, obtained by a majority of
,nineteen to sixteen ; and then
proposed a petition simply .objecting to the prinCiple 'of Sir
klarry. Verney's bill, which it alleged to he unjust, and as
Vnaking invidious distinctions between the owners of property.
.• .Mr. Councillor Sal ITH -seconded the motion,
Mr. Councillor LlouNtit moved that the council do theuad-
iourn,-but . , •
The MA yOit said it would be inconvenient and irregular to
pass that resolution.
Mr. CiMlleinia CURRIE then moved as an amendment, that
the conncii did writ feel that the question was one with which
they ought to interfere.
Councillor Wit LAISIEV seconded the amendment.
Councillor Coui.AN protested against such an amend
ment on. a question of so great importance to a large class of the
community.
• Ultimately the amendment was withdrawn, and .the council
divided on the original motion, when it was lost: by a majority

of 9.
The numbers were—For the motion 11; aga'nSt it 23.
A memorial from the flour dealers of this town -waS then read,
praying to he heard in commitiees.against a by-law, prohibit-
mg the hoisting of flour by horse power, which was referred to
the finance committee ,the Town-clerk remarking that it was
not. a by-kw, but a clause in an act of parliament,- of which
complaint was made.
The council then adjourned at ten minutes to four o'clock, to
that day, fortnight. . ,

ANctENT Ect.tPsE.An account was lately lead at the lioya
Astronomical Societe of some emnlititat ions agreeintz. wit b th€
time of an eelipve of the son observed in China, Oft. 10. uolei:
than 212; years before Christ. or'irearly 4000 Tht
time of lite izre,!test ation oven coinpule4l 1,3 i Air
lioth•otto to be, Iron the ,I,lr table's of I.eati.liri. V.V;(I the MI al
elt•►ueuts of Dallill“VaU, to 11,ave happened ai.b in ii. 47 sec. pas'
noun, with VI digits celiiis.,(l, el-1161:1v with the in
dirations of the Chinese chronicles. For not predicting
eclipse the two astronotn6rs Ile and Hi were put to death..

Tbe Ilibcrpoot ,Srtanbarb.

FRIDAY MORNING. FEBRUARY 9; 1838.

,<7l' The Publication of the STANDARD commenced this morn-

log at 4 o'clock

INFLUENCE OF POPERY ON NATIONAL CHARACTER.—
The RoMan Catholic priesthood claim for their religion
a degree of purity, to which they say no other form of
faith can pretend. The " Holy Catholic Church" and
the " Holy Mother Church" are the terms bey which they
ordinarily designate. the Popish religion. If such in
reality be the character of Popery, we may reasonably
and naturally expect to find those nations among whom
it is predominant to excel all others in their morality.
If there be any truth in the assertion that the Church of
Rome is a " holy church," it will necessarily follow that
Italy, Spain, Portugal, I3elgiurn, 'and Ireland nmst he
the countries where the sanctifying influences of Chris.
tianity are most conspicuously manifested..

But what is the fact ? Do we not find that the most
demoralised districts of. Ireland are precisely those in
which Popery is rampant ? Is it po4ible for any man to
compare the state of that unfortunate country with the
state of England, without recognising a striking differ-
ence in the standard of morality in both places? Nay,
can any dispassionate Mind, view lii.comparative condi-
tion.of the province of Ulster, and that 'of the rest of Ire-
land, without detecting the cause why the population of
the north are enlightened moral, happy, peaceable, and
industrious, ivhilst the people in the south of Ireland are
sunk in barbarous ignorance, vice, and misery ? Will it.
not be said at, once that. Protestantism prevails in the
north, and therefore the people are infinitely-superior,
both in intelligence and morality, than they -are in the
south, where Popery contributes to stint the intellectual
faculties, and to cleiiase:tlre.moral character ?
Look-again at the state of Spain and Portugal. Do
we not find"-the population cif there countries to be in. a
state of semi barbarity ? Are the people not Roman
Catholics? Yet do' we not See that they are cruel, igno-
rant, and
.superstitious? Is not Spain, at the present
moment,. in a state of civil anarchy ? is not Portugal in
a similar condition ?

Look again' at France. How many political convul-
sions has a single generation witnessed in. this ill-fated
country ? Wiwre, is crime_ in its worst and most: revolting
a.pects more prevalent than in France ? Where is infi-
delity more widely spread ?

. .
Then turn to Belgium: Has not this country also
been the scene of constant revolutions, in Which all the
worst passions which can degrade humanity haVe been
frightfully developed?
• .But more partiCularly, we would say, look at Italy.
Here,- sorely, in the Immediate vicinity of the very
,source and original empire of Popery, we may fairly
estimate the practical influence which it exercises on the
character of a people. And what has been the nature of
that influence ? It has been of the most malignant and
blighting character. Even Rome itself, the very capital
of the Pontificate, is little 'else than a nest of infamy and
impurity. T!ie population of Italy generally will hear
no comparison in point of morality with that of any Pro-
testant country in the world.
In a word, Popery, wherever it has obtained the as-
cendancy, has established the reign of misery and ini-
quity. ft has thrown a moral blight over the fertile
plains of Italy. It has doomed Spain and Por;rigal to
the horrors of civil commotion. It has made the French
a nation of reckless debauchees. It has been: a_ perpetual
.curse to Ireland. Wherever th;, caul tel
ho.been predomin'ant it has paralysed industry,,destroyed
every. moral :keling, and introduced a train of national
evils which can never be completely removed until the
"accursed thing" itself.is.eradicated.
If such be the influence of Popery on national character,
ought not every man %rho assiduously labours to destroy
it to receive our warmest gratitude ?. Is not every such
" man a real friend—a true benefaCtor of the human race ?
Are we called upon to put an end to the horrors of
slavery ? Can we comply vvith this call by leaving the
worst-species of slavery undisturbed ?
We have been led to make these remarks by the an=
principled attacks which have been made upon theclergy
of the establishment on account of their zealous opposi-
tion to Popery. Our readers will agree with 'us that the
efforts of the clergy to root out Popery from Ireland are
deserving of the highest praise. They will also agree
with Us when we assert that every roan who seeks to de=
'stroy the system of New o slavery, hot refuses to lend
his aid to Crush the still more degrading slavery of Po=
pery, ought to he indelibly branded as a hypoCrile.

T 3
...RoPOSEP NEW noSPITAL.—It will gratify our read-
ers to learn that another important occasion for the ex-
ercise of smputbv with the calamities of the labouring
classes of the community offers, itself to them. A nu-
merous and highly influential meeting was held at the
Clarendoti•roorns yesterday, Mr. Ambrose Lace in the
chair, fur the. purpose of establishing a casualty hospital
at the south end of the town, •in the neighbourhood of
the Dock's, on a similar footing, and for like purposes
as the hospital in •Leeds-street,.which has proved, under
Pro.ideLce, the Means of saving the lives a very many
persons maimed by accidents, who could not have been
safety con% eyed to the Central Infirmary. The unani-
mity expressed by the whole tWeeting on the necessity of
thiS proposed chat ity, and the alacrity with which dona-

ti ons were then subscriber-I, will, we I►npe, enable the
provisionaJ committee the►► named to call a public meet-
ing, an early d.ry, to make the necessary arrange-
ments for carrying out the proposed object. We cor-
dially recommend this benevolent design to the support
of our readers, and tray that the most sanguine expec-
tations of the charitable individuals who have already
interested themselves in this praiseworthy undertaking
will be fully realised.
•.

PARISE! AFFAIRS.—Once more we warn our Conser-
vative friends. R ~,ainst the secret machinations of Mr.
Walmslev and his radical "awkward squad," who are
Making diligent preparations for taking the parish office
by storm. We have repeatedly intimated
_that this
meddling faction contemplate the expedient of trying to
substitute Sir John llobhouse's act for that. of Sturges
Bourne, under which our parish affairs have been so
long and so satisfactorily administered. Of course this
cannot be effected but through trickery and manceuvring,
on the part of the radicals, and through apathy and su-
pineness on the part of the conservatives. Of the con-
sequences which would result from the success of such a
stratagem we need say little. It would convert the
select vestry into a republic of petty tyrants, who would
unscrupulously prostitute their influence to the meanest
party purposes.

MEETING OF THE SUBSCRIBERS TO THE

NORTHERN HOSPITAL.

The general annual meeting of the friends and subscribers
to this institution was held on Tuesday at the Sessions-house,
in Chapel-street. The meeting was announced to•take place at
two o'clock, the Mayor in the chair. At the appointed hour
not more than a dozen persona ‘.sere in attendance..
The Mayor took the chair of a quarter before three. He was
-followed into the court by about fourteen or fifteen gentlemen.
Amongst those present were Aldermen Brown, and Freme,
Me4srs. Adam 'Hodgson, 'Currie, Platt, Reverends Dr. Ralph,
Hugh M'Neile, Buddicom,.and Martineau, and Dr. Squires.
The MAYOR said he had been requested to preside over that
meeting, and he was extremely sorry that his duties were not
likely to prove more arduous. When he considered the impor-
tance of the charity he was sorry to see so slight a demonstra-
tion of feeling on its behalf. He honed there would be another
meeting before long, when the zeal in this most excellent cha-
rity would be a little more conspicuous
The ttev. Dr. Her en read the following report:
That adequate relief may be.afforded to the sufferings of our
fellow-creatures. our attention must be kept alive to them.
They lose tire benefit of our sympathy, just because they are not
immediately under our notice. Benevolence, by a wise provi-
sion,-at once comes to our aid, on the mind fairly adverting to
them.
The passing stranger cannot fail to have observed, that in the
northern extremity of our town, owing to the numerous and ex-
tensive docks, warehouses, and manufactories, there is a more
densely crowded-and busy population than in any other part.
The very bustle that prevails, however, leads the t houghts away
from the dangers, particularly in the form of accidents, attend-
ant. upon it. And thus, on the spoton which, of all others, the
offices of benevolence may be required, sialply from inadver-
tency, may least exertia of a benevolent character be made.
Happily-, however, the kind consideration of Many was, a few
years ago. at length attracted to the peculiar claims of the
northern district of Liverpool to the same benefits our excellent
hospital had long been dispensing. The project of another
hospital met with the success that might be.anticipated so soon
as the isuint for it should he fully made known, through the ge-
nerosity of individuals and public bodies. It was established
accordingly on a mostsatisfactory foundation. Trial very soon
proved its utility. An enlargement was made in. evidence to a
greater degree of the advantages it was conferring. And the
last year has more than confirmed
,the testimony of..the few
previous years of its existence.
The number of cases received, it will be seen by the rrlurn,
is 946, being more than double that of the former year. Eighty
four beds are now. made up, instead of thirty-seven, the amount
of the last report. As compared with the report of St. Thomas's
Hospital, London, so much in repute for them, the proportion
of accident cases continues priigrcssivelv to increase, while. no
less than twenty-one were so desperate as to prove fatal a. few
hours after they were Insmeht in. It may be added, Ahat
of
twenty-eight capital operations, only one has been unsuccessful.
But though the Northern Hospital is thus undoubtedly one of
the Most important-charities of the town, and so- thoroughly
entitled to public confidence. it gives the committee pain to
report that its income has greatly fallen off. Denations, which
ought to have been reserved as a source of ,permanent increase.
have been applied to meet current expenses, and a debt of .atioye
£5OO . has been contracted. Its funds, therefore, instead of
increasing, ate actually diminishing with its extending useful-
ness.
”ade 'hat th have only to state

The committee ,feel persuaded that they have o,
this fact-to call forth a united effort, not-only to relievellielti-
stitution of the existing. new, but to secure permanent support
on a scale -adapted to its growing necessities.- It sutlers, they
are satisfied, because its counnanding claims e.ta not sufficiently
known. When the wide, and,. as it were; isolated distrct it
embraces—the number of acciaeuts likely, to occur int he par-
ticular locality, and the extremity of.the.cases it coutemplatEs
are considered—benevolence will flow freely into this channel,
though it may be solicited in many others. •
Accordingly, it is the: intention at the committee to depute
smile of the number immediately to wait upon their townsmen
for subscriptions and donations; • and they would respectfully
urge. ministers of religion to make collections in behalf of the
Institution, not only witha view of obtaining funds for the
present need, but circulating, in the most favourable way, in-
formation as tails exeeeding.va:ne.among other charities of the
town, that it. may rim its career.uf.useftkess, in time. coming,
free of all embarrassments.. • •
'Mr. CkiA It WARNEttitend the accounts. It appeared from
these that the gross expenditure during the past year for altera-
tions, &c., furniture surgical instruments, drugs, provisions,
wageS, rent, and taxes, &c., was £2,078. the gross
income during the same. period, by donations, subscriptions,
collections, and payments inclusive of £2lB. Os. 7d., balance
of last account, was £1,533. (is. 31,—thus leaving a deficiency
0f1512 15s 6,1. - - - .

'he Rev. R. P. Bonnicom moved the adoption of the report.
He deplored that an institution, of such great importance
should be placed in circumstances of such great embat rasment.
As the friends of the institution, however, had ileterntined.upon
sommoning a special meeting for the purpose of laying before
the public the state of its affairs, and of making a stronger ap-
peal in,its favour, he should abstain froto soy ekteuded remarks
vtt the•:Subject.-, Its -hoped The-members of this Christian com-
munity would come forward and. give to this most importaut
charity the support which it desei ved. •
Mr. HEN DERSoN seconded the resolution, which was put and
carried unani,iously.
Mr. W. W. Cuitum said, he understood that that was the
proper time to propose the resolutiim which he held in his hand,
as, in consequence of the proposal to call a special meeting,
several other resolutions had been deferred. He was called
upon to propose that the thanks of time meeting be given to the
committee for the past year, and to the treasurer; and that-the
following. gentlemen compose the committee for the ensuing
year: President, William Rathbone, Esq. Mayor; W. Brown,
Esq. Charles Horsfall, Esq. Adam Hodgwon, Esq. G. J. Wain-
wright, Esq. Charles Warner, Esq. J. Lightbody, Esq. R. B.
Anderson, Esq. Rev..l. liornby, Rev. Dr. Ralph, Elias Moze-
ley, Esq. R. B. Blundell. Esq. John R4r,by, Esq. Rev. 1)r.
Raffles, William Smith, Esq..(Everton,) J. Myers, Esq R.W.
Bateson, Esq. Samuel Eacuu, Esq. E. G. Deane. Esq, Rev.
James Martineau, Henry Holmes, Esq. R. P. Carter. Esq.
Thomas Irlam, Esq. and Hugh Anderson, Esq. Mr. Currie
l'iroceeded to say, that, for the same reason as that assigned by
Mr. Buddicom, he should abstain from making any remaiksrat
that time, • • ,•
Mr. FIUME seconded the resolution, which was put and car-

tied.
Mr. WILLIAM BROWN proposed that a special general meet-
ing of the inhabitants of the town be called at the Music-hall,
on Fridiy, the 16th instant, at seven o'clock in the evening, to
take into consideration the state of the ort her n Hospital, and
more generally to make known the heavy claims which it has
on the sympathy and support of the town.
Mr. ADAM 1710DGSPN seconded the resolution.
One of the gentlemen present suggested, that before the meet-
ing broke up, it would be. proper to re-appoint the medical
officers.
Mr. PLATT upon this arose, and moved that .the thanks of
the tweeting be given to the medical officers.for their Services
during the past year, and also to the. house-surgeon and ma-
tron, and that they be re-appointed for the ensuing year.
Mr CaossFLELo seconded the resolution, which was carried
unanimously.
The Rev. 11t7Gii M'N El LE proposed, that the thanks of the
meeting should be given to the Mayor for presiding at that
meeting, as well as for the assurance that he had given them,
that he would preside user the next special meeting.
The resolution was seconded by a gentiemau whoSe name we
could not learn, and carried • • ~...
The MAYott briefly retu. wed his acknowledgments. and con-
e),,ted Li 11.11)11.4,t6„,t,i vii second theit intentions,
and exert its power in. giving an impulse to,public,feeling in
behalf of the. Hospital. "
The meeting broke up at a quarter past three o'clock.

II LIME A D.—An order has.been sent by the Lords Commis-
sioners of the Admiralty to Captain Bevis, R.N., agent of
packets on the Holyhead station, directing the said, packets to
take the mails and despatches from every American packet they
may happen to fall in with on 'their passage loam! from Ireland,
in order to obtain as early arrival as possible to the despatches
from Canada.
• .
• John Cottingham, Esq., Recorder of Chester, is a candidate
fortheoffice of stipendiary magistrate of Manchester, vacant
by the promotion of Mr. Foster to the Chairmanship of the
S-alford Sessions. There is every probability of Mr. Cotting-
ham's success.
BACHELORS' BALL—A splendid ball is intended to he given
on Thursday evening next, at the Wellington Rooms, by a few
of the Liverpool bachelors. We understand about 500 invita-
tions have been issued, and that Weippares baud has been,ex-
pressly engaged for the occasion. •
THE LIVERPOor, FRIENDLY SOCIETY.—TESTIMONIAL To,
M it. Sit A w.--On Wednesday evening last the tonamittee of the
members of the Liverpool Friendly Society (held at the Savings''
Bank) presented their worthy honorary secretary, Mr. Richard
Shaw, with cu elegant plain silver tea service, of the value of
one hundred guineas, as a token of the very high esteem enter-
tained for his twenty years' valuable services. It must be in
the highest degree gratifying to this gentlemen to know that
the above sum has been raised in small contributions amongst
the labourers, mechanics, and other artisans ofihe society, men
who feel and appreciate the value of his serviers; and all who
have been engaged in conducting it seem to viewith each other
in endeavouring to render it as acceptable to Om as they sin-
cerely believe him to be worthy of it. Even the honorary
members (gentlemen who give their time and attention to the
society's interests for the good of the members) have recorded
their opinion of Mr-. Shaw's merits by contributing to the sub-
scription.. •
EASTERN CoUNTIES Ti A i ii.wa Y.—The sliaeholders in the
Fast ein Counties Railway, will he gratified ti learn that at a
general meeting of the company, held in Loidon, on the Fin h
instant, aPer leading a very favoutable 1111)11, of the pro-
ceedings for the last. six months, -the fobtwin, gentlemen
were elected (lit cctors in the room of those -et iriov by ballot,
namely,- Col. Sir Robert Harvey, K.O B.', rpm Norwich, Mr.
Cunston,' from London, and Messrs. Theodore W. Bat hhoue,
and Lawrence 1-1,-yWorth, trout Liverpool. t,t the same meet•
ing, a bye law was passed, conffering on al,: tit proprietors the
power of voting by proxy at all future meetin:s of the company,
a measure which will prove of the greatest tenefit to the und;r-
taking, which me-rely requires good managment to insure its
- taking a proper place in public estimation. •