The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-12-10 00:00:00

Mr. BUSHELL seconded the motion, and expressed a de.
.e that they should add the building as well as the land.
The motion was carried.

STANDING ORDERS.
eject of the standing orders and additional amend-
)posed therein, as already suggested and notified
en-clerk, was taken up. The first of these was,
mayor, instead of being ex-officio member of all
;!s, by an ex-officio member of all permanent corn-
Mr. G. IL LAWRENCE supported the alteration,
nit what he conceived to be the inconvenience of
mayor an ex-officio member of sub-committees.
trongly opposed by Mr. Bushell and Mr. Evans,
tiled the idea of not having the mayor a member of
=nlaces, when he, as chief magistrate of the
iuld he conversant with all that was passing. On
n of Mr. AIKIN, seconded by Mr. BUSIIELL, the
passed in its original shape, without the word per-

moved, as a standing order, " that every
ded to be presented at any quarterly or
of the Council shall be presented to the
ember to Ivhoin such memorial shall be en-
v of which memorial shall be filed, in the
-clerk, before five o'clock in the after-
e day for summoning, in order
may he mentioned in the notice and sum-
object was that the memorials should be well
,y the Council. I-1e had seen memorials read
or, and suddenly laid aside, without any of the
,owing what they were about.

preceding a

s opposed the motion.
ER seconded the motion

iid an order would be productive of
very few of which probably would be de-
read. They might have hereafter (he would
t company), members who might wish to
selves by making speeches. Such persons
er, invite memorials, and the council would
long speeches.

tained

v, Mr. ICUSI-lELL, the mayor, Mr. EARLE, and
'T, opposed the motion, being of opinion that it
le many memorials.

bought that there would be no harm in
emorials should be filed, but Mr. Earle
it might be desirable to keep a memorial
,as to be brought forward, and the
right to compel a member to make the con-
d. his memorial public till he thought proper. Ulti-
,octer's proposition was lost, all the members
the exception of the mover and seconder,
izainst it.

till the day it w

3ther motion, that standing order No. 38,
;tools, be rescinded, was withdrawn.

THE. DIVISIONS.
IN said that before the standing orders were
1 to have a clear understanding upon a
n impression had been that nothing
iered as carried in the council when there was
`lle members present in favour of it. It
in their recollection that when the Education Com-
,ad been chosen, sixty members were present, twen-
it of whom voted for Mr. Harbord, twenty-six for
..., and six for Mr. Aikin. He then thought that
Aikin had only six votes in his favour, the question
ie between Mr. Harbord and Mr. Lloyd. He wished
what the standing order, or what the law was, in
ase, should it occur again ; because, although twenty-
-nt the majority of sixty, Mr. Harbord had been

he wished
. His oc

ajority of

Ir. Llov

1K admitted that if there was to be a re-

election between the two, the votes given for the third party
might turn the scale. If, for instance, there were twenty for
one party, sixteen for another, and five for a third, the one
having the twenty would stand the highest upon the numbers;
yet, if there was to be another election between the party
having the twenty and the party having the sixteen, the five
votes thrown away might be in favour of the one having the
sixteen. In point of law, if three persons were put up for
one office, and that there were twenty votes for one, sixteen
for another, and five for a third, the one having the twenty
would he legally carried. This had occurred in cases of
election for members of parliament. There was no going
over the ground a second time when one only was to be
elected ; and therefore, if there was to be any alteration of
the rule on the subject in the council, it should be made
matter for a new standing order. He recollected only one
instance in which it had been proposed that there should be
a re-election between the two parties having the largest num-
bers, and that eras in the election of a mayor; but the result
in the first trial in that case was such that there was no occa-
sion to go into it a second time.
Mr. UOLTON said that a person having only twenty votes
in his favour might be elected a member of committee, pro-
vided four candidates should happen to be nominated, and
that the large number of sixty-four members should happen
to be present. Under such circumstances he begged to give
notice to the following effect, that no person should be elect-
ed to any office who suould not have the votes of a majority
of the members present in his favour.
Mr. Mr.u.on. wished to put another question lo the town-
clerk, namely, whether it had not been irregular to allow
Mr. Aikin's name to he put forward on the occasion in ques-
tion. The seventh standing order set forth that whets an

was made no second amendment could be taken
to consideration until the first should have been disposed
When Mr. Harbord had been proposed, an amendment
moved, and then another member jumped up and pro-
a second amendment; therefore he thought the rule
-Itogether violated in that instance.
CLEILIC was of opinion that the seventh stand-
.eferred to amendments on resolutions, and not as
ner one, four, five, or seven parties should be pro-
as candidates. The notice, however, which Mr. Bol-
on had given was perfectly reasonable, and the law would
make valid any standing order to such an effect.

Ihe 'Town-'

Mr. BIRICE:.rT referred to the election of a tax-collector,
11,ich had taken place a few days before, in which three
arties had gone to the poll, and the highest was declared
Lected. lie thought this case precisely similar to the one
) which Mr. Bolton had alluded
Mr. Asst

r said that in all popular elections the rule was
Jerk had laid it down ; but it was never so in a

'erative assembly

..rOWN-CLERK said that the council might adhere to
anding order, or determine that the election should
)lace in the manner suggested by Mr. Bolton, because
Mice given by the latter was a reasonable one.
EVANS.—Then we can make a special case of it when
ease ?
e ToWN-CLERK.—Yes.

conversation here dropped,

TUE MUNICIPAL ACT.
ELL proposed thceoiie
following motion, of which he
,tic a inn
e :—" Thatbe appointed to take
ation the various discrettpaen
and tocies in the municipal
•:cis, and to make suchrepresentations
sures as may appear advisablerrn for the amend-
Its." He could not
,!red any opposition totatil ine, lie said, that
i proposal on any
'is not a party question, but one which
very high degree.
ofrl legis—
a local
a
'id any attempt on the Par
-fere with the acts of the general ee
ot case, the council were
They had been elected under, and they
and
the unjcip ' ,)I laws, and, therefore, it
m was
.nee that those lass should work properly and
He would ask who so competent to judge of
, of those laws as the municipal bodies, or " the
nof Liverpool in particular: (Hear, hear.) By
the extent of the Liverpool constituency, and the
inflict of the contending parties they had, and per-
er would have, in the town, defects had shown them.
in Liverpool by reason of the working of these laws,
t might not have exhibited themselves in any other
"id, therefore, no corporation could be better ena-
- example to the country at large on such a s
ab-
ject as the present, than the corporation of Liverpool. (Her)
It had been asked by Ur. G. H. Lawrence at the time he

ed to se

;:0,;,4;.! i,is qr:tio or tnotlo, What had LIVAUP.OI to Ma
with it," 118 (Mr, .13.) had gained from the town-clerk a
piece of information which bore nu this question—namely,
that during the six years which those municipal acts had been
in operation, he had had occasion to submit to counsel 50
disputed cases, at a cost of 500 guineas. (Hear, hear.) And
if he (Mr. B.) went into the Revision Court, and looked at
the melancholy proceedings which they had had there, arising
out of the ambiguous terms in which the qualification was
-I—and if he looked at the 'so ' be-

many w. mid been pu
upon the parish books who never could have any claim on the
parish whatever but for certain circumstances, he would ask
had Liverpool anything to do with these things. He thought
she had a great deal to do with them. (Hear.) The govern-
ment could only receive through the municipal bodies the
requisite information ; and why should they withhold it, see-
ing that they had suffered so much from the ambiguous
words in question ? He thought it was their duty to submit
the discrepancies, and to call on the government to revise
them. If it were asked why go to this expense, he in reply
thought he had proved that the expense, in order to save ex-
pense, ought to be incurred in order that they might not have
those unfortunate conflicts which they had had hitherto. He
regretted that his friends on the opposite side, when they
had the power, did not bring the subject forward, but that was
no reason why the conservatives should not do their duty in
this matter.

Mr. AIKIN rose to second the motion, but in doing so he
begged to set Mr. Bushell right, because his (Mr. A.'s)
party had moved in the matter. He should take credit to
himself for having uttered a suggestion which Mr. Bushell
had taken up, namely, that instead of expending the corpo-
rate funds in other ways, he thought it would become the
council to expend them in endeavouring to remove the dis-
crepancies and contradictions which were upon the Mee of
the act. (Hear.) He begged to be allowed to explain what
was well known to many—that perhaps there never was a
more perfect bill produced than the present bill, but that in
its progress through the Lords—certain noble lords—(oh !
oh !)—he was going to show how the contradictions had
arisen—in its passage through the Lords various amendments
and propositions were stated, which were so much calculated,
in the mind of the mover, to disgust those who were carrying
the bill through partiament, that it be withdrawn. But those
who had the management of the bill said they would take it
with all its defects. Had it been referred back to the com-
mons it would have been lost altogether, and then the mem-
bers for the several wards in Liverpool would never have met
in that council to congratulate each other. (A laugh.) Va-
rious discrepancies and contradictions had in consequence
arisen, and it was with the view of restoring the bill to its
original purity that he seconded the motion. He was sorry
that various clauses had been introduced into the act which
it was not in their power to remedy, and which denuded the
Liverpool and other councils of what they ought to have in
their various localities. After expressing his regret that the
power the council heretofore possessed i►► the matter of
church patronage had been taken from it by clauses which
could not be remedied, he concluded by expressing the plea-
sure he felt in seconding the resolution.

Mr. G. H. LA WREN said that the present subject had
been before a committee heretofore—that they had done all
they could to make such alterations in the bill as they thought
desirable, and that nothing had resulted. Be thought they
should be cautious in interfering with the legislature, for the
council was not a legislative body after all. (Hear, hear.)
He felt that they should be getting into party politics by
touching matters of the kind. He did not deny the defects
of the bill, on the contrary there were many points in it
which he would wish to see rectified. But he was not quite
sure that the legislature would let the municipal bodies settle
those points. He wished that the power should be left in
the hands of the council of settling contested elections ; but
he had doubts whether such a power would be given. Under
all the circumstances he thought it would be desirable to see
what the government would do in the matter in the first
instance.

Mr. ISAAC HOLMES rose for the purpose of stating, that
the very circumstance which Mr. Aikin said he deplored—
namely, that of taking away the power of appointing to the
church, was a measure which of all others he (Mr. H.)
highly approved of. If in the city of Dublin the council had
the appointment of the clergy to the church establishment
of the country, when three-fourths of the members for Dub-
lin were directly opposed to the established religion of the
realm, what would be the consequence ?

The MAYOR interrupted. lie thought Mr. Holmes ought
to confine himself to the subject of the motion.

Mr. HOLMES asked why Mr. Aikin had not been stopped.
The MAYOR admitted that the question was a fair one,
and said that Mr. Aikin had gone perhaps too far. He con-
fessed that be had been wrong in not detecting that Mr.
Aikin was wandering from the subject.
Mr. Hotmes expressed a hope that some alteration would
be made in the act which would have the effect of preventing
persons from being placed on the registry who were unable to
pay their own taxes. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. EVANS hoped the council would endeavour to get as
much legislative power into their own hands as they possibly
could.

Mr. SANDBACH trusted the committee would extend their
inquiry to the annual recurrence of elections in the town,
involving a fortnight's interruption of business, idleness,
dissipation, and a disorganization of society.
Mr. EARLE admired Mr. Sunbach's modesty in coming
forward on the present occasion on such a subject, and asked
why he had not done the same thing two or three years
before.

Mr. SANDBACII.—I wonder you didn't complain of it two
or three years ago. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The motion was then put and carried unanimously, and
the following members were appointed upon the committee:
—Messrs. Bolton, Evans, Aikin, Lloyd, Sandbach, Birkett,
H. Lawrence, Crooke, and Bushell.