The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-08-13 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS

The adjourned monthly and quarterly meeting of the town
council was held on \Veduesda;•, in the council chamber,
within the Town-hall.

When the Mayor had taken the chair, at a quarter after
eleven o'clock, there were only twenty-one members present,
including the chairman. As the municipal act requires that
:twenty-two members shall be in attendance in order to form
a council, a messenger was despatched, at the suggestion of
Mr. Birkett, to the office of Mr. Proctor, adjacent, to ac-
quaint that gentleman that his presence was required at the
chamber to form a council.
Mr. EARLE said, that if the mayor adjourned the council
upon the first occasion that twenty-two members were not
present in five minutes after the usual time for commencing
the proceedinrs, he might rest assured that there would be a
larger and more punctual attendance afterwards. Mr. Earle
added, that Sir George Drinkwater was in the habit of taking
up his hat and walking out of the council whenever the ne-
cessary number of members were not present in five minutes
after the appointed hour for proceeding with the business.
The MAYOR said he should have no objection to act upon
Mr. Earle's suggestion on some other occasion, but in the
present instance it was impossible, as it was necessary that a
council should be formed in order that no further delay
should take place in confirming the dock committee pro-
ceedings, _

Immediately after this conversation bad taken place, Mr.
Councillor Jones entered the chamber, and twenty-two
members being then present,. the business of the day was
commenced.

DOCK COMMITTEE.
The deputy TOWN-CLERK read the minutes of the pro-
ceedings. of the Dock Committee. He was proceeding with
the reports of the sub-committees, when
Mr. HARDORD asked if it were necessary to occupy the
time of the council with these reports. In the Watch Com-
mittee they had reports from their sub-committee which
were never brought before the council.
Mr. G. 1-ToLT said, a very large proportion of the business
was now done by the sub-committee, and if the mere pro-
ceedings of the Dock Committee were read, they would be
very meagre indeed.

Mr. Isaac HOLMES asked if some alteration had not taken
place in the mode of doing business in consequence of the
admission of reporters?

Mr. BENN said the report which the deputy town-clerk
had commenced reading, was one that had been made to the
sub-committee, and as it was a mere recapitulation, it was
unnecessary to read it.

Mr. BIRKETT observed, that the statements brought for-
ward by the Dock Committeewere sufficiently explicit on al
matters save those of a financial nature, which were the
most important of all. They mentioned the per centage a
which they borrowed money, but not the sum borrowed
What he most wanted to know was the precise amount they'
borrowed. ,

Mr. BENIV thought it was unnecessary to state the amount
borrowed.

Mr. JOHN SMITH said it was easy to perceive that such
a statement would be productive of great inconvenience.
Mr. EVANS said the .Dock Committee conducted their bu-
siness under peculiar acts of parliament. What did it matter
whether the sum borrowed were mentioned or not ? If any
gentleman conceived that any thing was wrong, he had the
power of making enquiry and satisfying himself. The money
market was known to be in a very delicate state, and the com-
mittee were not called upon to make useless exposures of their
negotiations. If the committee were in such a state that it
was indispensible for them to raise money speedily,—and he
was he was happy to say the very reverse was the case,—such
exposures might prejudice the public interest very seriously,
Mr. BENN said it might be satisfactory to know that the
committee had no difficulty about money. The were refusing
it at 4i- per cent.
Mr. IllaKErr thought that if they were to conceal any-
thing, it should be their rate of interest. At present, how-
ever, they were showing the rate of interest they were pay-
ing, and not the amount of money they had borrowed. He
did not want the Dock Committee to come to the council
and to say whitt they wanted to borrow, but he was anxious
that they should conic there and say how much they had
borrowed.

Mr. EARLE asked whether all these questions and an-
swers were in order ? He hoped they might not be kept till
midnight talking over the subjeet.
The MAYOR said, that as the question put by Mr. Birkett
had been answered, that gentleman had a right to proceed
after having obtained the information sought for. It was
competent for him to submit a motion, with the view of
having the amount of the money borrowed submitted to the
council.

Mr. Bum Err said he was not prepared to submit any mo-
tion at the moment, bnt he would consider the subject.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES asked whether it had been fully de-
termined to stop up the Salthouse and Canning Docks ? He
had been told that, at the trifling expense of £l5OO, the Can-
ning Dock might be worked out of the George's Dock ; and
as the council must be aware that if both docks were stop-
ped, the coasting trade would be put to great inconvenience,
he hoped the subject would be taken into consideration
again, and that they should have the Canning Dock worked
from the George's.
The MAYOR said it appeared from the proceedings of the
Dock Committee, that very extensive arrangements had been
submitted for the approbation of the council with respect to
the accommodation of the coasting trade, and that if Mr.
Holmes had anything in addition to submit to the Dock
Committee, they should be happy to receive it.
Mr. BENN said the subject introduced by Mr. Holmes
had been again and again considered, and that the Dock
Committee had arrived at the conclusion that the most expe-
ditious and effectual way of completing the
.arrangements in
both docks was, that 'both the works should go on simulta-
neously. The estimated cost of going to work according to
the plan proposed by Mr. Holmes would amount to £lO,OOO.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES said he had been speaking on the
subject to Mr. Thomas Tobin, and that he believed £l5OO
would do all that was wanted. For his own part, he did not
think the cost would exceed £lOOO.

The conversation here dropped, and the proceedings were
confirmed.

GAOL COMMITTEV.
The report of the Gaol Committee set forth that Martha
Cowdroy had been appointed matron to the Borough Gaol.

Mr. PARKER begged to ask, if the person appointed were
a member of the Established Church ?

The Mnl att said, out of the numerous applicants the tes-
timonials as to character, conduct, and ability, in favour of
Martha eowdroy, were ;considered most satisfactory. The
question as to whether she were a-member of the Established
Church was nor asked. She produced excellent testimonials
as to character,

Mr. ISAAC HOLMk;S said the question as to what place of
worship she attended ought to have been one of the very first
asked.

The MAYOR said she had a very satisfrctory testimonial
from a respectable clergyman of the Established Church.
He considered that she had a most satisfactory character.
Mr. PARKER requested that the testimonials be read.
It seemed to be the general opinion that this was unneces-
sary, and the subject dropped.

ASSIZE COURTS •AND ST. GEORGE'S HALL.
In reference to the report of Mr. Elmes on the plan sub-
mitted by Dr Reid, for ventilating the Assize Courts, on the
plan adopted for the Houses of Parliament, the following
report of the surveyor was read:—
" The surveyor, in conformity with the directions of the
council on the 4th instant, respectrully submits his report on
Dr. Reid's principle of ventilating the New Assize
Courts, &o.

"The inconvenience which is experienced by individuals,
especially those wLOl4e profession calls them to attend
crowded courts, but ill ventilated, or rather, without ventila-
tion, has long been the subject of complaint; and its
baneful effect on the constitution is too well known to require
further remark.

" There is scarcely a building of a public nature, in which
individuals congregate, but what is either subject to the op-
pressive heat of an atmosphere which scarcely allows of re-
spiration, or to sweeping currents of cold air rushing upon
them, occasioned from the ineffectual mode of ventilating.
" The plans for ventilating the new Assize Courts, which
have been arranged under the direction of Dr. Reid, will
not be subjects to these evils ; the general principle being
the uniform diffusion of pure air, as it may be required. The
principle having so well succeeded in the present houses of
parliament, under circumstances when they have been
crowded to excess, is most satisfactory ; and the experiments
exhibited before your em4tnittee are so, demonstrative of its
powers, that gour surveyor, with the fullest confidence, re-
spectfully recommends the adoptiOn of the plans by the
council ; which also embrace the warming of any separate
part, or the whole of the principal edifice, and which is in-
cluded in the estimate.

" With reference to the expense which will be incurred in
carrying out these plans, your surveyor has no means of
estimating it. A great
.part of the expense will be in the
construction of the build.lng, which, with the apparatus, &c.
has been estimated at 4)02, in addition to the ordinary
mode of ventilation, which Mr, E,lmes states to be the max-
imum. The correctness of this estimate your surveyor has
no reason to dogbtsl4ut the actual cost may be ascertained
separately rom the general estimate, when the specifications
are prepared and the work advertised for.
(Signed) " JOSEPH FRANKLIN.
"llth August,

Mr. EARLE moved the adoption of the report. He had
said ond the subject.
little to add to what he had heretofore
the ago, and
He was in company with Mr. Cresswe 1 atofew
he took the opportunity of asking him as
the plan in the House of Commons. Mr. Cr success
of
e
him permission to say, that he never was in sswC"
gave
roprn, that was
better ventilated, or more comfortable, that the House of
Commons. •
Mr. EVANS. said, he had since. the last council investi-
gated the subject,
thought he knew the whole prin-
ciple. He could lint help expressing regret that the plan
would be so expensive, and he believed that hereafter that
principle would be applied to buildings at a cost compara-
tively trifling. This was certainly a new era. They had
heard it said that the government would, if possible, tax the
air which we breathe. They had at all events arrived at a
time, when it was necessary to pay a very high price for a
supply of atmospheric air.
Mr. GLADSTONE said, Dr. Reid's charge for ventilating
the Wellington-rooms was four times as large as the work
was now to be done for. Dr. Reid, it appeared, was to be
paid a large sum for superintending the wexki yet he was to
be in Liverpool only about one week,
Mr. G. H. LAwRENCtf, s4id the Plans were Dr. Reid's,
but with the estimate he had nothing to du, His charge for
seeing that his plans were carried into execution would be
£SGO.
Mr. EARLE said the Wellington-rooms were not now to
be done upon Dr. Reid's plan. If they were to be ventilated
according to Dr. Reid*, plan, they would cost the amount of
the original estimate, or .41-100. Dr. Reid had not pretended
to estimate the cost. He had merely furnished the plans,
and the cost of adapting them had been estimated by Mr.
Elmer.
I Mr. EVANS said he should like to know whether Mr.
Elmer was to receive 5 per cent. on this additional cost.
Mr. EARLE could not answer the question, but he believed
the 5 per cent. was to be paid upon the original estimate.
Mr. BUSHELL said it would be absurd to think of build-
ing the Courts without ventilation. The cost of the pro-
posed plan would be very
large undoubtedly, but it was bet-
ter that the work should he effectually done at once upon a
system which they knew would answer, than to run the risk
of expending a much larger sum in alterations, and perhaps
never have the work effectually done aftor all.
Mr. ALEXANDER SMITH said two plans were submitted
to the committee by D,r. Reid, One of those had been tried
and found eifeetnal, the other would have been but experi-
mental. He thought it was desirable, with a building that
would cost so much, to have the work done in as complete a
way as possible at first.
Mr. IsAnc. HOLMES having here intimated that ho should
not divide the council on the subject, no division took place,
and the proceedings of the c,aminittee were confirmed.
Tiu ELECTION MOTs.
The MAYOR read a petition which he had received from
certain householders residing in Atherton-street, stating that
on the evening of the 29th of June, the day of the borough
election, a large party of riotous and disorderly persons pa-
raded the streets in the neighbourhood of the Custom-house,
and broke several windows, and did other damage to houses
belonging to the said householders in Atherton-street. They
further stated that the expense could not be borne by many
of the householders, and they prayed the council to grant
them some reparation.
Mr. A. SMITH, kill. said he had been given to understand
that the town-clerk, in reply to a similaT'4)A/cation, had said
that there was some flaw in the aa Pf narliament,whieh pre-
vented reparation from, being made-
The MAYOH—What he said was, that the. act conveyed no
power of the kind.
Mr. SMITH asked whether the parties had not a claim on
the borough or 'county ? For his own part, he thought they

had a claim, under such circumstances, on the county.
The TOWN•CLERIC had always said that if they had a claim
at all it must be on the county; but, in the next place, that
they could have no claim on the county unless the proceed-
ings of the rioters should be such as to show that there was
originally a determination to demolish the houses. Cases
had been before the judges which were much stronger than
any of the cases which occurred at the last election, and in
those cases the judgment of the courts was given against the
claim, inasmuch as it could not be shown that there was any
intention on the part of the rioters to go for the demolition
of the building,

Mr. CASE said the present was an application to compen-
sate out of the corporate funds. He asked the town-clerk
whether they could apply the corporate funds to any such
purpose ? That was the question. Until lately, it had been
the understanding that parties receiving damage of this
nature should be reimbursed out of the county funds, unless
it could be shown that the rioters proceeded on the intention
of demolishing the house. However, the council had nothing
to do with that point. All they had to see was, whether they
could apply the corporate funds to such a purpose; and,
under the authority of the town-clerk, he was satisfied that
they could not. It therefore only remained for the council
to state to the memorialists that they had no such power ;
and with that view he begged to move—" That the town-
clerk be instructed to inform the memorialists that their
request cannot be complied with, as the corporate funds can-
not legally be applied to such purposes."
The TOWN-CLERK said he had informed the committee
that the council had not the power of granting reparation
under such circumstances ; that the corporate funds were
held for the benefit of the public, and could not be applied to
individual purposes.
Mr. Isaac HOLMES conceived that something might be
done for the sufferers. He recollected that the council had
departed upon one occasion from the regular routine. Upon
that occasion certain philosophers had come down to the
town, and it being thought right to entertain them, the then
,ayor had £4ol' firnted to him -- I

w tun gra, .or the purpose. _t had
been suggested to have a subscription raised for the indi-
viduals in this instance, who had, no doubt, suffered severely,
and to have the mayor head the list. He thought the coun-
cil might grant £lOO to the mayor for the purpose. his
worship might contribute a certain part of that sum, and that
by this means the sufferers might be indemnified. He thought
it would be an extreme hardship if the poor people were com-
pelled to bear the whole loss. If the subscription plan were
adopted, more service would be rendered to their fellow-
townsmen than could be rendered by entertaining individuals
at public dinners who were of very little consequence so far
as the trade of the town generally was concerned. Mr.
Holmes concluded by stating that it bad been the intention
of Mr. Cooper, if present, to submit a motion to this effect.
After a few observations from Mr. BIItKETT, the motion
was adopted.

ILLUMINATING THE TOWN-HALL CLOCK.
" Gentlemen,—We, the undersigned occupiers of pre-
rniSes immediately adjoining the Town-hall, beg most re-
spectfully to submit to your consideration the great inconve-
nience felt both by ourselves and the public, from the want
of the Town-hall clock not being lighted by gas. Trusting
so generally notorious a complaint has but to be mentioned,
in order to be removed,

" We are, Gentlemen, yours, most obediently
John Deane, Pierce and Crossfield,
Thomas Baines, Robert Jones,
John Jones, Thos. Bean,
Henry Lyon, Mander and Allender,
G. and J. Robinson, A. Holden,
W. Sirdefield, Butler and Colquhoun,
S. Towers, Wareing Webb,
Thos. Hall, Charles Drury.
Thos. Nixon, , John Wilson.

" July 31, 1841."

The MAYOR said, this petition had been presented a few
days before, and as the clock was undergoing repairs at
present, and this the proper time for entertaining such a
subject, he had procured the surveyor's report, which he
he would read. First of all, however, he wished to state,
that in the years '27, '2B, and '32, the same subject had been
brought before the council. The following is a copy of the
surveyor's report :