The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-01-07 00:00:00

SPECIAL COMMISSION.

. .
TRIAL OF THE CHARTISTS AT MONMOUTH.
THIRD DAY—THURSDAY.
Tlie,judg•ers took their seats npon the bench at five minutes
'past nine o'clock precisely, The prisnner Trost was at the
Same moment placed at the bar.
Sir F. POLLOCK, in addressing the bench, wished, he said,
to know from their lOrdShips if his client was not now to be
placed in the same situation as. if the, point that had been
made yesterday was deci•.led in his favour?
Chief Justice TINDAL said that the course was, where
there was a point at all doubtful, or any difficulty occurred,
iewas reserved for the decision of the judges.
Sir F. Pommel( did not wish to be understood as object-
ing to that course generally ; but •the Attorney-General
.being then there, might, he thought, make a difference as to
the course pursued. In the event of its being their lordships'
opinion that the objection ought to have prevailed at the
.trial, Mr. Frost was to be placed in the same situation as if
it had prevailed at this moment.
Chief Justice TINDAL.—If the judges consider that it
ought to have prevailed—certainly.
The.ArronNEY-GENERAL.—If that should be so, Mr.
Trost will be placed in the same situation with all her Majes-
ty's subjects. This case does not differ from any other
case.

In reply to a question to a remark from Sir P. Pollock,
Chief Justice TINDAL said, here the position of the pri-
soner will be precisely the same as if we had now decided in
his favour.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL.—It will be like the case of all
others, where a point has been reserved for the decision of
the judges at Westminster.
Baron PARKE.—If the prisoner should be convicted, and
the point now reserved be decided in his favour, a pardon
will, on the recommendation of the judges, be issued as a
matter of course. There is no instance of reserving such a
point, as if it were made at nisi prius.
The first witness examined was Samuel Simmons, who de-
posed that he lived in the parish of Woolas, in the borough
of Newport. Sir Frederick Pollock raised an objection to
the description of the witness; The prisoner, Frost, was
entitled to have the name and place of abode of the witness.
To say the parish of Woolas, in the borough of Newport,
was, in the opinion of the learnealgentlernanea misdirection ;
it should have been in the borough o7IN-ewport, in the parish
of Woolas—it was part of the parish, and St. Woolas was
not in the borough, or any part of it. After the examina-
tion of the witness had proceeded to some extent, in the
absence of the municipal act, that document was brought
into court, and the objection was overruled by the learned
judges.
A number of witnesses were examined respecting the out-
.break in Newport on the Memorable 4th of November. At
the head of the mob was Frost the mob were armed with
guns, scythes, sticks, pikes, mandrels, pieces of iron, roast-
ing spits, and long staves, and such kind of weapons. me
witnesses were examined minutely as to the proceedings
before the Westgate Inn,—the attack of the Chartists on it,—
firing of the soldiers, and all the subsequent scenes of hood-
shed,' which our columns at the time detailed so minutely,
and which are so familiar to most of our readers.
The last witness called was. Sir Thomas Phillips, mayor of
Newport, at the time of the outbreak. We give the most
striking parts of Sir Thomas's evidence :
I received intelligence of the approach of persons to the
town till between eight and nine o'clock on Monday, from
different points of the road, and at last I sent a request for
troops to the barracks soon after baybreak, and in conse-
quence thirty. soldiers, I believe, were sent to me, under the
command of Lieutenant Gray, Sergeant Daley, and Sergeant
Armstrong. When Lieutenant Gray arrived he formed the
soldiers in front of the house, and I requested he would
march them into the back yard. There are two gates to it,
through which carriages pass on the east side of the house.
The gates are in front of the street. I returned through the
house ; and having gone into the court yard. and coming
thence, I saw the military go into it. They were formed in
the yard, and I desired the gates to be closed : and they were
fastened. I then took Lieutenant Gray into the room at the
east end of the house, and said the soldiers might go in there,
if he approved cf it, as a proper position. He did approve
of it. I soon after went into the front passage, hearing the
people were in the town, and I ordered the special constables
to come in, and the door to be closed. It was afterwards
opened, and given in charge to two or three special con-
stables, with orders not to let any one enter. I then went
into a room above the commercial room, which has a bow
window, through which I could see a body of men passing the
wing of the house formed in a column. They were regularly
abreast of each other. They were all armed, some with guns
and some with long spears or pikes. I stayed a short time
there, and ran down to the passage below, and when I got
opposite the bar, I saw the heads of the column in the door-
way, or close upon it. They were standing with weapons by
their sides, as they appeared to me : they carried them ver-
tically. 1 ran to the room in which the soldiers were, and
said, " Lieutenant Gray, load immediately." I believe
Lieut. Gray opened the middle shutter of the window, and
opened that to the left, and I felt my left arm benumbed, and
saw two holes in my trowsers, and saw I had been wounded
in the hip, from shots fired outside. The soldiers fired into
the street and into the passage. I saw one dead body of a
man who fell close to my feet. I think the firing did not
last more than ten minutes. Lieut. Gray knew I was wound-
ed, as I. mentioned it to him immediately ; but I do not know
if I told him before the soldiers tired. The special constables
had not guns; they had only staves, to my knowledge. As
far as I know, peace was soon after restored, but 1 was oblig-
ed to give up the charge of the town to others. The wound
in my arm was severe ; the other was a flesh wound. I did
not leave the room till the affray was over. The present ma-
•yor (Mr. Hawkins) was with use all night, giving directions.
'1 he night was wet and windy.
Cross-examined by Mr. KELLY.—I am an attorney, and
was in partnership with Mr. Protheroe to the close of 1839,
frain-Jone' .18U.• I,li:is's-ahem, and am interested in coal-
mines- have_ not. mentioned Frost's name during the exa-
usination.liitt I loweekoown. hint about seventeen or eighteen
years.: was well acquainted with hint, during the progress
of, thereform bill, but had no intercourse with him before
then, There .had been a difference between him and Mr.
-Protheroe. There mere an action and two indictments by
Mr. Protheroe.against Frost ; but I do not know of any cid-
.ference-aiuce then,-whiele was in 1821. I met Frost at .the
time of the refoein.hille 4tail on other occasions also. I had
opportunities of Obesetaing public conduct.
_Sir Thomas continuance of his cross-examina-
tion, said—l am not certain as to the allusions I made re-
specting a majority. of 37. I attended the Usk meeting, at
which the high sheriii was to have presided. That was a
county aneetiug... I might havethen made some observations
in allusion to the majority of the House of Lords. I believe
I. did
.say sotothin.-. concerning the majority of 37 in the
House of Lords- .rthink I.did make some observations re-
garding it. I have no doubt of it. I cannot tell what it was
that I said. I censured the majority, but as far as my recol-
lection goes I did not use offensive terms. I believe I did
not use offensive terms. "I believe I did not say what their
deserts should be, or what they should meet. I believe I did
not wish that the majority should meet the fate of certain
parties in France. I believe I did not. I believe I alluded
to what occurred in France. I may have alluded to the pre-
decessors of the present King of France. I have no recol-
lection of having said that the 35 should meet their fate. I
I have no recollection of having said anything of the kind.
I will not undertake to swear that I did not, as I have no
recollection on the subject. At that meeting I made allusion
to the Bishops. I know ofno serious disturbances. in New.
port before the last. I remember having heard that the pre-
sent Duke of Beaufort was insulted during his canvass. This
occurred between seven and eight years ago. I was not pre-
sent at those disturbances. I was not then either mayor or
magistrate. I have no recollection of the part taken by Mr.
Frost in those Occurrences. At that time Mr. Frost and I
differed. Some heat might have been .shown ; but during
that period I witnessed nothing reprehensible in him. This
brings to my recollection that he said something severe
against Inc. I think that during those times there was no-
thing tending to riot. I had an opportunity of witnessing his
public conduct during his mayoralty. He was a magistrate
three years. I would rather not answer whether 1 found
fault with him as a magistrate. I believe he act&l on the
impression that he was right. I would rather say that Mr.
Frost thought he was right. I have lived in Newport 20
years. I cannot say that his conduct as a private individual
and head of a family has been such as it ought to be. I
know nothing of him as the head of a family. I took the
question put to me in two branches. I know nothing of him
as the head of his family, in his relations of private life. I
have seen Vincent. I was present at his trial, which was
conducted by the magistrates at the instance of the govern-
ment. I considered that to be a goverument prosecution.
The magistrates were local agents, who conducted the pro-
secution through the means of their clerk. Vincent was
convicted at the last assizes. Ido not know whether the
supposed treatment of Vincent was the subject of public
complaint.
ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I object to such a question.
Mr. KELLY,-4 have a right to ask whether the treatment
which Vincent experienced was the subject of a national
complaint.
Chief Justice TINDAL.—I suppose he received that in-
formation from newspapers. The paper should be produced.
Mr. KELLY.-1t is sufficient if it was a matter of no-
toriety.
CHIEF JUSTICE.—There are various way! of ascertaining
such information, by public newspapers, Ste.
Cross-examination resumed—l know-of no complaint of
ill treatment, but through papers conducted by himself, called
the TVestern Vindicator. I did not know that the apart-
rnent of Vincent was a subject of discussion among the ma-
gistrates. I did not act:with the county magistrates. I know
of no such meeting. I attended a public meeting in the spring
of thsayear, when It Wes ;greed to present an address of loy-
alty to the'QUeen, aiid resoTutioris were passed td support
the lawful authority. This meeting was produced by meet-
ings previously held. I was in Newport the whole of the day
of the 3d Nov. On the previous Thursday I received such
Intelligence that led inc to order special constables to be sworn
iisinti
as,
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prisoners were first taken... They were brought before my
colleague and myself at the Westgate. I should say that the
saym o btaFhd,
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Mr.
wounded. la f t
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I tkeor fe
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acsannodti d t
then
either mayor or magistrate. :1;
Re-examined by the ATTORNEY-GENERAL—I cannot re-
collect that I made allusion at the meeting to the French re-
volution in the way that Mr. Kelly suggested—then or at
y, and Thomas Walker
any other time.
Serjeant Dal
'clock on Friday
ewe Captain t
eßxaasmi
nGerda.y ,
moTrileingc.ourt then adjourned until nine o

.2ck th
itehfe
j MONMOUTH, FRIDAY EVCNING.
lorSaisrhFil;;Ptoottih.oec(kiesaoidtlifoenwoifshceadpttaoincaGllrtahye.attention of their
suisttuiene g
To:NtohAe
L.
—ouvrtoat nine o'clock this morning,
you wish the deposition to be
p
read ?

to see th
lord
Sir F. '3
Rave you
permission .1. ot.t.ocx
copies of the depesixt;_would first ask for your lordship's
e depositions.
Mr. )3aron PAR not been furnished with
nothing. I have nothiii...,
Sir P. l'ot.Locic.--91‘rN ? t
I have been furnished with
papers, and from which illixt what I have found in the news-
Mr. Baron PARKE.--comytee abstained as much as possible.
fdr. Ido not know vi,)hesthof the depositions were ap-
plied Sir F. PoLLocK.—I do noterN you had them or not.
making any complaint upon the p'oli's,h, to be understood OS
Having looked over the deposition, Iti lam making none.
to your lordships, but Ido not feel • eel very much obliged
it 41 necess• •
tain. Gray. y to call Cap-
The examination of Matthew Williams
.1,,
George Lloyd, James James, James Samuel, Henryrnes Hodge,
William Howell,. James .Woolford, Joseph Anthony, Smith,
Nickol Hawkins, and John- Parsons, was then John
proceeded
with.
An order was granted by the court, en the written appli-
cation of Sir F. Pollock, for the admission of Mr. Thomas
and Mr. O'Connor to the gaol, at all reasonable hours, for
the purpose of seeing Mr. Frost. -• .
', ,T h e court adjourned at a quarter to six o'clock.