The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-02-05 00:00:00

THE IMPROVEMENT COMMITTEE

The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the Improve-
ment Committee were next read and confirmed.

THE WATCH COMMITTEE-THE LATE REPEAL MEETING

The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the Watch,
Lighting, Cleansing, and Fire Police Committees, compris-
ing the appointment of a billet-master, the appointment of
collectors for the lighting and fire police rates in the out-
townships, and an increase of salary to Mr. John Hewitt, the
foreman to the fire police establishment, having been read,
Mr. Bum Err rose and moved—" That the proceedings
now read be confirmed, with an instruction to the Watch
Committee to make diligent and careful inquiry, whether or
not a political meeting was held at a place attached to a pub-
lic-house, and called the Queen's Theatre, on Sunday, the
24th ult., during the hours of divine service, and, if so, to
instruct the town-clerk to institute legal proceedings against
the principal offending parties:"
The MAYOR thought that, as the motion formed no part
of the proceedings read, it could not come in the foam of an
instruction to the chairman of the Watch Committee. A
notice of it might then be given by Mr. Birkett, when it
would come before the council upon a future occasion.
Mr. BIRKETT, in reply, said that as the proceedings of the
committeee in question ought to have shown that some steps
bad been taken, in consequence of such a meeting having
been. held in the town, he would alter his motion with the
view of having the proceedings referred back to the com-
mittee, in order to afford them the opportunity of taking
the necessary steps.

The TOWN-CLERK apprehended that the motion in its
original state was in course.

Mr. J. SMITH thought it would be in order at the next
council meeting, and was preparing to give his reason for so
thinking. when Mr. G. H. Lawrence and several others on
the conservative side called on Mr. Birkett to proceed.
Mr. BIRKETT trusted he would be allowed to give his rea-
sons for introducing the motion, and that he would not be`:
put down. In the first place he should state, that before as-
certaining weether any steps had been taken by the watch
committee, he made inquiry whether the magistrates had
taken the matter up, and finding that they had not, he went
to the watch committee, and asked the chairman of that com-
mittee (Sir J. Walursley), on Saturday last, whether he had
received any information on the subject. He replied in the
negative. It appearing to him (Mr. Birkett) that the head-
constable of the town ought to have made a report to the
watch committee, that gentleman was called before the com-
mittee, when he stated that his attention was called to the
subject on the previous Tuesday, but that he had not made a
report. (Hear, hear.) Having a very strong opinion with
regard to the outrageous circumstance of a meeting of the
kind having been held in a theatre on the Sabbath-day, he
(Mr. Birkett) then consulted the rector on the subject, his
own impression being, as neither the magistrates nor the
watch committee had interfered, that the churchwardens
ought to have called a public vestry of the inhabitants. The
rector, however, dissented in this respect, thinking that the
matter ought to be again brought under the consideration of
the proper authorities ' . and under the extraordinary circum-
stances of the case, he (Mr. B.) hoped that every member of
the council would vote for the committee to be instructed in
the manner set forth in his motion. (Hear, hear.) He be-
lieved and his belief was founded on the best information that
he could obtain, that such an occurrence as the one in ques-
tion never before happened in Liverpool, and that a similar
one had not happened in England for the last century. That
any meeting should be held in the town on a Sabbath-day,
with the exception of meetings for religious purposes, he was
not prepared 'to allow ; in fact the law was opposed to them,
for it provided that even meetings for religious purposes
could not be held on that day except in licensed places of
worship. In this case, however, about ten or fifteen hun-
dred persons assembled on the Lord's-day, at a place attached
to a public-house, and under the license for a public-house,
for a purely political object. If his (Mr. B.'s) own brother
had been guilty of such misconduct, he would be one of the
first to denounce it, because it was the most outrageous act
of which he had ever known or heard. It was impossible for
any man to expect the blessing of God while he continued to
show that he had no regard for religion, and, as no nation,
since the formation of the world, could give a stronger attach-
ment to the Maker of the universe, than the respect in which
it held the Sabbath-day, so whoever endeavoured to weaken
that respect was an enemy to religion and a nuisance to his
country. (Hear, hear.) He dared not trust himself to speak
on this subject, fearing that, if he expressed what he felt, he
might overstep the courtesies usually binding on members of
council, but he hoped, without taking up any further timer
that his resolution would be unanimously adopted.
Mr. HODGSON seconded the motion. He rose with ex-
treme regret at finding that, in a Christian country and s
protestant town it should be necessary to recall the attention
of the magistracy and the public authorities to an occurrence
such as had been stated, which took place nearly a fortnight
ago—and with regard to which, he, as a magistrate, had re'
mained uninformed by any constituted authority. He rose
also to say, that as one of the Watch Committee he had beet
frustrated in his attempt to gain any information on the sub-
ject at the Police-office, the head of the police merely telling
him that he was cognisant of the proceedings in question,
but that he had never reported them to the committes. II
(Mr. H.) was not prepared to go into the question, as the
party upon whom the visitation should fall—whether the
owner of the public-house or those implicated in the proceed'
ing—but he was truly sorry to find that an investigation int°
the circumstances had been all this time delayed. At the
same time he would exonerate the churchwarden (Mi.'
Birkett) from all blame, who had discharged his duty by they
coming forward in a spirit of Christian frankness and con"
dence in his God, and in a manner which set at nought the
l
contempt as well as the sneers of infidel men. '(Hear, heel).
Mt. Birkett had felt himself bound to support the laws
his country, and the position in which she was placed! by
taking his present stand ; and the only remark that he (111!1;
H.) could not quite agree with him in was, that he believe'!
the meeting was held for a purely political purpose, whereto
he (Mr. II.) believed it was held fora most impure purpose
—namely, to inculcate a most direct breach of the law, and
direct breaking down of the constitution of England, in el
attempt to sever Ireland from this country. He wanted ne,
the law to be stretched, but he wanted to see it executed, sew
with that view, he hoped the motion would be carried.
The MAYOR considered it due to himself and the other
magistrates to say, that he had no information of the meeting
in question. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. JOHN SMITH rose for the purpose of saying that the_
reason he had spoken a few minutes before was, because 13;
considered the motion irregular, but, finding that the object
of it was to " inquire" whether such a meeting had been held'
he had not the slightest objection to its. being then passed.
Mr. EARLE said it was the duty of the gentlemen who
troduced the present resolution to make a motion on the sat'
ject at the Watch-office, if they believed the head consult) 0
to have behaved himself improperly, and that in omitting t°
have him brought to an account for having, as they supposed '
done wrong, they neglected their duty.
Sir J. LMSLEY said that Mr. Hodgson laboured un"et
~:
some mistake with regard to Mr. Whitty, the head cons'';
ble, for that his (Sir Joshua's) impression of the proeeedia,,
before the Watch Committee was, that Mr. Whitty was ,a
report. The present motion was, therefore, brought forestro
for the purpose of display, inasmuch as Mr. Whitty had bee,
instructed to report on the subject. When Mr. Whitty 0.„$1,
brought before the committee, Mr. Hodgson found fault %,"`
and rebuked him for not having reported such a circumstance
when it took place in the town.

Mr. HODGSON-Will you allow me to explain ?
Sir J. WALMSLEY—M r. Whitty is about to report on.
subject. My view was, that Mr. Whitty was then not an,
lutely requested to report, but that there was an understslA"
jog that he should report.

HODGSON—NO, no

Sir J. WALMSLEY—And I requested him to report iraulj,
diately o 1 the subject. Therefore, every object was gaicg
(Hear.) Now, the present resolutionstates that the meet'„'
took 'lace during divine service. I believe such was not tbo
fact; but, at the same time, Mr. Whitty said he didn't loSij
whether it did or did not : subsequent inquiry proved it
~
not take place at that time. Mr. Whitty also stated, tht,
large number of persons assembled in Christian-street s;
were admitted into the theatre. " What subject they 'l,O
cussed 1 know not, except from the public papers that it '‘.o
the repeal. If, therefore, Mr. Birkett is wrong in WlO,
that it was held during divine service, I apprehend no 16
structions can be given the Town-clerk to take proceedings,
and, if it was inquiry he wanted, a full report would have beo
laid before the committee on Saturday next. This, theN
it appears to me, is an unnecessry display before the collet
(Hear.)
Mr. HODGSON—I distinctly declare that Mr. Whitt), s
he knew of the meeting ; that it took place at twelve o'clecb,
during divine service; and that, when Mr. Whitty
room, I said I should be ready to make a motion, notwlw
standing the feeling and the taunts of the meeting.
Sir J. WALMSLEY—SureIy you are wrong in that. t
Mr. HODGSON—I also declare that there was no instro,
tion given to Mr. Whitty to report at all. I left the roov,
with the churchwarden, (Mr. Birkett) who said that tli„(
k chairman of the committee told him, not in a very br,
strain, that "he wished he had left an hour before.' (11060
If any instructions of the kind had been given Mr. Whi4r
they were unauthorised. To that hour he (Mr. H.) was "oic
aware that any such instructions had been given, and he l'oy
challenged the chairman of the committee to show that
authorised instructions were given. (Hear, hear.) .0
Sir J. WALMSLEY—I stated before that no instruct'
were given in writing, but I gave him instructions to 0'3,41
an early report that it might come before the daily b° 3,„'s
With regard to taunts, I am sure that Mr. Hodgson call"
say that any taunts came from me as chairman.
Mr. Hohosori—l did not say they came from you. si
Sir J. WALMSLEY—With regard to what Mr. llode,
says I told Mr. Birkett. I have have to observe that
Birkett is excessively troublesome in the committee, and,
he is continually bringing forward matters which are
lows and nonsensical in my mind. As he passed me on
occasion, he whispered to me " Would I allow him to 0.
and 1 replied in a joking way—
The MAYOR (interrupting)-1 think it may be as wea)
to mention circumstances of which we are not cognisant, $
of which we cannot, therefore, be the judges. , 1
Sir J. WALMSLEY—I did not know that I was irregular'
was merely explaining. 1
The MAYOR—My remark only applied to the inadvertee
of your mentioning here what took place elsewhere. ol'e
Sir J. WALMSLEY—But when Mr. Hodgson says I 0401
disrespectfully to Mr. Birkett, I merely wished to explaint'or
what I said to him was— I wish you had gone an Pri
ago." That was said in a joking manner, and in a wbisPe
but if such trifling matters as this are to be brought held
the council, we shall only lose our time here to very little P
pose. (Hear.)
Mr. ROBINSON attended the committee on Saturday tell
jug, when Mr. Whitty said he thought the meeting' '
place at twelve o'clock, but he afterwards came back 004
it was held about half-past four. He (Mr. R.) agreed to "01
Birkett's motion, as he thought the circumstance a most °ki
rageoui one. He also thought that their chief constable
neglected his duty in not reporting it to the committee,
he would add to the motion " that the license to the pub
house be withdrawn."

Mr. BIRKErr, in explanation, begged to state, that q
day in question, he had asked leave of the chairman of 0
committee to retire. He had asked leave sitting, and n°,lll
a whisper, when the chairman said to him, that he wisbe,,,
had gone an hour before. His (Mr. B.'s) answer was, tt
he was sorry to hear him say so, as it was not treating
subject properly.
Mr. WOOLLRIGHT asked whether Mr. Birkett or .14
Hogdson had given notice of this motion to the comma
with regard to the head constable ?
Mr. EARLE replied in the negative. Mr. Hodgson
preached a sermon on the occasion; and accused him
E.) with taunting him. He had not taunted him, b 0 I
said, if it was.his opinion that the head constable 'tn,
done his duty he ought to submit a notice on the sou,il
Mr. Hodgson dealt always in inuendoes. (Order.);
(Mr. Earle) had often told him so, and he told him 00 !"
again. (Order, and confusion.)

COGLAN.—For his own part he thought the mole-hill
had been magnified into a mountain, in which a good deal of
bile about the desecration of the sabbath bad been inter-
mixed. He only wondered that a single house had been left
in Christian-street, and yet he bad not heard of a house there
that had lost a single brick. An attack had been made on
Mr. Whitty that he unjustly deserved, because if that gen-
tleman felt that a wrong was being committed, he (Mr. C.)
was sure he would have interfered. If, however, the coun-
cil should be of opinion that an investigation ought to take
place, he hoped it would be conducted in a fair spirit.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. SANDS said there was a right and a wrong in every-
thing. The question in the present instance was to this ef-
fect :—Was the meeting at the theatre a right one? He
quite agreed in the propriety of Mr. Birkett bringing the
subject before the council, and he thought it would be just as
correct in him to accuse Sir Joshua Walmsley of having cer-
tain intentions in view in bringing forward any motions he
pleased, as for him to accuse the conservative party of being
desirous for a display in introducing the present motion.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. CASE quite agreed with Mr. Sands that there was a
right and a wrong in everything, and he approved of the mo-
tion for inquiry ; but he thought it would be found, in point
of fact, that the inquiry was at present going on, for he had
just heard, from a member of the Watch Committee, that
Mr. Whitty had made :I report.
The MAYOR.—That he is instructed to make it.
Mr. CASE.—No ; but that he has actually made it,
although it has not come before the daily or weekly eom-
mitiee. I think, therefore, that the gentlemen who moved
and seconded the present resolution might be satisfied that
they have done good in bringing the circumstance forward,
and that the object they have in view is in course of being
obtained.

Mr. H. LAWRENCE had no objection to adopt Mr.
Case's view of the subject, provided Sir Joshua Walmsley
would state distinctly that the committee had given direc-
tions to Mr. Whitty to make the report.
The MAYOR said he understood Mr. Case to say that a
member of the Watch Committee had told him that Mr.
Whitty had the report in readiness.
Mr. CASE observed that Mr. Freme was the authority upon
which he made the statement.

Mr. FREME said he understood from Mr. Whitty that In-
spector Murphy had given him a report, but he (Mr. F.) be-
lieved that that report had not as yet been presented.
Mr. TouLmiN asked whether any instructions had been
given by the committee, as a body, to Mr. Whitty to prepare
a report ?
Sir J. WALMSLEY could only say, in reply, what he bad
already said before, .that nothing had been put on the books,
but that, as chairman of the committee, he had given instruc-
tions to Mr. Whitty to report to the daily board, that it might
subsequently come before the general committee, and it was
his (Sir J.'s) impression that such instructions were given
before the meeting broke up.
Mr. Busintut..clenied that any such instructions weregiven_
before the breaking up of the committee, for he had remained
to the close and heard nothing of :he kind, so that Mr. Birkett
was fully justified in bringing forward the present motion.
Mr. PROCTOR, as a member of the committee, would say,
that he also remained to the end of the meeting, and that he
had not heard any instructions given to Mr. Whitty, but he
beard Mr. Whitty confess that he thought it would have
been better if he had reported the circumstance to the com-
mittee.
Mr. THORNHILL said he had seen Inspector Murphy's
report, and that, when it game before the meeting on Satur-
day next, it would show that one hundred people were not
present at the theatre, and that the proceeding of the meeting
had not occupied more than a quarter of an hour. In fact,
the reason that Inspector Murphy did not report it was, be-
cause be thought it so trivial.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES thought it proper to state that an in-
dividual who was present told him that the doors were not
opened until five o'clock ; that fifteen hundred persons were
present, and that the green flags were flying in the theatre.
(Hear, hear.)
The TOWN-CLERK felt it his duty to state, that if the,
wetting took place, whether the meeting was during, or be-
fore, or after divine service, Mr. Whitty had a duty to per-
form, and that duty was, to report it to the chief magistrate
of the town. (Hear, hear.) He felt, however, that he ought
to accompany this remark with the following observation,
namely, that he had never known the slightest failure of duty
on Mr. Whitty's part before, if the present was a failure.
Mr. SHELL thought the whole of the present proceeding a
little out of order. (Hear.) The facts of the case were
these :—Severaal members of the council met regularly for a
particular purpose ; the person whose duty it was to report
was brought before them, and they wanted to know from him
whether a certain meeting had been held, to what extent, and
for what purpose. This was the duty those gentlemen had
to perform. accordingly, they met, and they chatted, and
then they walked off—not one of them thinking it his duty to
make a motion. Now, if Mr. Whitty was guilty of negli-
gence (which might be the case, though he was disinclined to
credit it), those gentlemen were guilty of very gross negli-
genne in failing to bring his conduct before the committee ;
because, as it appeared at present, they were appointed by
the council to watch over the local interests of the town,
while they merely chat over them and come to no resolution.
It was idle to be-taking up so much time with matters of the
sort • but, if the motion were carried, he thought the council
would be bound to pass a vote of censure on those gentlemen
who had neglected to perform their duty. (Hear, and a
laugh.)
The MAYOR did not wish to stand on his own rights per-
sonally, but be thought it right to let the council know that
he had been just informed by the Town-clerk, that the pre-
sent was a matter that ought to have been reported to the
chief magistrate and not to any committee. (Hear, hear.)

Mr. Biltaarr declared himself willing to alter his motion
to the effect just mentioned by the mayor, if Mr. Hodgson
permitted him.
Mr. HODGSON acquiesced in the propriety of the altera-
tion. _ _ _ _ _ _

Mr. H. HORNBY thought perhaps that Mr..Birkett would
withdraw his motion altogether, provided it was the general
understanding of the council that the mayor would cause a
report to be made to him. (Hear, hear.)
The TOWN-CLERK did not find fault with any report being
made to the committee, but stated a second time that it was
the duty of the head constable to have reported the circum-
stance to the chief magistrate. _ _ _

The MAYOR said he would most certainly have the matter
sifted, and submit the result of his inquiries to thevouncil.
(General cries of " Hear, hear.")
Mr. BIRKETT said he would press his altered motion to a
division, in order to show the town that the present was a
matter which had a right to be taken up with promptitude.
)sfr. BUSHELL said that he for one was perfectly satisfied
with what the mayor had just promised, knowing that what-
ever he undertook to do he would do well. (Hear.)
Mr. SMITH and Mr. HODGSON hoped Mr. Birkett
would withdraw his motion under present circumstances.
Mr. CASE thought it the duty of the head constable to re-
port to the Watch Committee as well as to the mayor.
The TOWN-CLERK said that if he were the head constable
he would report to both.
It was understood that Mr. Birkett's motion was with-
drawn, on the understanding that the mayor should investi-
gate the matter, and submit the result of his investigations
to a future council ; and the proceedings of the committee
were accordingly confirmed.
THE MARKETS COMMITTEE.
The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the Markets
Committee comprising the removal of the Haymarket on
the 15th of March next, were next read and confirmed.

_ _
EDUCATION COMMITTEE.
Mr. HARBORD requested to be informed who the parties
were, if any, who attended the meetings of the Education
Committee, and took part in the proceedings, though they
were not members of the council.
Mr. HORNBY explained that so far as the sub-committee
of the South School was concerned, two gentlemen had been
Omitted, when assistance was exceedingly efficient in the
way of suggestion, but they did not vote. The gentlemen
were Mr. Rathbone and Mr. Ramsden.
Mr. HARBORD said it was a great piece of assurance in
Mr. Rathbone to go, and a dereliction of duty in the com-
mittee to permit it. He would move that the proceedings of
a committee so constituted be not confirmed.
Sir JOSHUA WALMSLEY explained that the allusion was
merely to the sub-committe, which dealt with matters of
minor detail. No persons were admitted to the meetings of
the general committee whose reports alone were brought be-
fore the Council. He would ask how were they to deal with
respect to the ladies' committee, if such a resolution as this
were passed ? The lady visitors were most efficient, and to
their exertions the schools were greatly indebted.
Mr. G. LAWRENCE spoke of the great benefits which re-
sulted to the schools from the co-operation of visitors, and
he intimated that he, had acquiesced in the regulation per-
mitting the attendance of visitors of the sub-committees.
Other gentleman expressed themselves to similar effect,
and ultimately Mr. Harbord withdrew his amendment. The
proceedings were confirmed.
APPOINTMENT OF ALDERMAN.
The MAYOR called upon the Council to appoint an alder-
man in the room of Alderman Lathom, deceased.
Mr. MORECROFT said he would propose a gentleman
whose integrity, talent, and straight forward honesty of pur-
pose were well knowu, a gentleman who had been much
esteemed while he had devoted a great portion of his time to
the service of the public, as a member for Lime-street ward.
He begged to propose Thomas Blackburn, Esq.
Mr. EARLE seconded the motion. He hoped they would
aain be ratified with Mr. Blackburn's presence in that.
room, becaguse of the service he would be of to the Educa-
tion Committee.
Mr. JouN SMITH would, as an amendment, propose John
Walker, Esq., of Plumpton Terrace, Everton, a gentleman
of talent, enterprise and integrity.
Mr. ROBINSON seconded Mr. Smith's motion, on the
ground that a man of business was better qualified to sit in
the council of a commercial town, than a doctor, however
great his talents.
The voting was taken in the usual manner of choosing an
alderman. Each member handed in a paper, containing the
name and address of the gentleman for whom he gave his
vote. The following was the result
For Mr. Walker, 23—namely, Messrs. Gladstone, John
Smith, Sands, Wright, Harbord, Case, Cooper, Houghton,
H. Lawrence, Copeland, Toulmin, Barton, Alexander Smith,
Rigby, .Wood, Proctor. Birkett,. Isaac Holmes, Robinson,
Kilshaw, Leigh, and G. H. Lawrence.
For Mr. Blackburn, 31—namely, Messrs. Shiel, C. H.
Jones, Hugh Hornby, H. Holmes, Yates, Co lan, George
Holt, Priestley, Mellor, Slater, Roskell, Mg`Kee, Barclay,
re' Y'
Bright, Quayle, Aikin, T. Holt, Morecroft, Wal 1 J.
Holmes, Freme, Mather, Thornhill, Booth, Jordan,
Moon, Woollright, Earle, Benn, and the Mayor.
NEW MEMBER OF DOCK COMMITTEE.
_ -

Mr. BENN proposed Mr. Quayle as a member of the dock
committee, to fill the vacancy occasioned by the death of Mr.
Leathorn. Mr. Quayle was a shipowner, and a gentleman
of much experience in the business of the port.
Mr. BOOTH seconded the motion.
Mr. SANDS proposed Mr. Sandbach, remarking upon his
high respectability and intelligence. Mr. Quayle s seat, he
observed, was disputed, and he could hardly be said to be a
legal member of the council.
Mr. ALEXANDER SMITH seconded the nomination.
Mr. QUAYLE said, as an allusion had been made to certain
proceedings, which it was said were to be taken against him,
as respected his right to sit in that council, he felt called
upon to say that after the most careful consideration of the
matter, and the most minute investigation, he was convinced
that he bad not merely a moral but a legal right to hold his
seat ; and such being the case, he was determined to defend
it to the utmost of his power. He had come to this decision,
as well from a sense of his duty to his constituency, as of his
own personal honour.
Some discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr. G. H.
LAWRENCE defended the supporters of Mr. Sandbach from
the imputation that they had been instigated by political feel-
ings. As a proof of this, he said he had himself been re-
quested to fill the vacancy, but he had declined. He must
presume that in their next choice they were led by a desire
to choose the most efficient member.
The result of the division was, for Mr. Quayle 31, for Mr.
Sandbach 23.
Mr. G. HOLT, seconded by Mr. BOOTH, proposed that
Mr. Benn should be chairman of the Dock Committee.
Carried unanimously.

COURTS OF LAW.
The proceedings of this committee having been read,
Mr. HARBORD moved that the propositions therein con-
tained be postponed to the next meeting. Mr. Ilarbord
thought there was some impropriety in allowing dancing and
dissipation to reign one day in the same building, while in
another the poor victims of crime received sentence of pu-
nishment, which might perhaps be death.
Mut.ir. EVANS seconded the motion, on the ground that the
ion of private proprietors with the corporation are incon-
gruous.

It appeared subsequently that the corporation have deter-
mined to undertake the erection of the whole building at the

public expense. The whole cost is estimated at about
£60,000 to £63,000 (according as the capitals 'of the façade
be lonic or Corinthian), and £20,000 for the Hall, an addi-
tional building.
Mr. COOPER, Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE, Mr. HORNBY, and
others expressed themselves favourable to the report of the
committee. The following are the names of the minority:—
Messrs. Isaac Holmes, Thornhill, Mather, Harbord. and
Evans.