The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-06-29 00:00:00

kiapEriat Parliairant.

'imosier -

.;»-_,

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MONDAY. •
tutsti musiCIPAL CORPoliaTtu ACT.
• -Lord .1: Ressci.L. moved the order of the day. foe the third
'reading of this bill.
Lord F. Eesirroe said it was with Much regret that he rose
to oppose the motion of the noble lard. He .hail been among
those who, in the earlier stages, of this bill, had indulged a warm
and eager hope that they on that (the opposition) side of the
house might ultimately be able to give their consent to.the mea-
sure as preposed by the government; and .no member had felt,
that hope more warmly than honselfenor was any member more"
reluctant to tip Pole this measure. But. he found himself' under
• -the necessity of meeting the mot iou the noble lord opposite
try-as direct a 'negetimia as the firrths of the house permitted.
(•' Hear, hear." from the opposition benchee.) He was aware'
- -that in adopting that course he wa's ekposing hithselrto the
imputation, nut,
~perhape, of ail}, desire - to prevent
the adjuetinent of those differenees upon this subject
which had lung divided the. parties • and distracted the
councils of the empire, 'but of at least .some indifference
towardS that consummation which was so warmly desired by
gentlemen on both sided. of the house, But he had been one
of those who,.from the commencement of these discussions, had
concurred in the views taken by his right hon. friendahe mem-
ber for Tamtverth. He stid cencerredin those vie.ws;. and now
that he found himself called upon to assent to the measure of
the, noble lord in its present shape, he begged tseexplain
reasons why he could not do otherwise- than oppose the third
reading of the bill. His- right hon. friend (Sir R. Peel) had,
in consenting to this bill, laid it down as his first condition, that
there should be a ER) bona,fide'franchise, to, be tested by the
payment of rates. Except by those who advocated universal
suffrage, the principle, if not the degree, of such qualifftation
had been unifurmiy admitted. It was.for these reasons that his
right hon. friend and ethers on thiii (the opposition) side'of the
house had thoughlit to adhere steadily to that condition, which
was tire,first stipufatton of his consent to the estehlishment•of a
franchise to the amount of £lO. HaVihe 'entertained these.
opinions, he now found on the table the bill of the noble.lord,
totally free from every element and shadow of concession.
(Hear, from the oppeeitiute.) He, thereforefelt himself com-
pelled to adopt the only course which, in consistency, it was
possible.fur him to adopt. l'he forms of the house would per-
mit him to move some postpotmeinent which would have the
tendency to produce the settlement which most or all of them
desired. His answer to preposition§ of that nature was, that,
Under the present circumstances of the bill, he believed the
prospect of, concilaiion would fail, and the attempt at adjust-
'meat would be fruitless. (Hear.) Sill-less would he consent
to such a state. of things as relyieet upon any other hodarin the
constitution repaving the errors of the bid. He thcitight it
would be more fair to the hon. gentlemen opposite, and those
behind him, to adopt the course he- was about to do, namely, to
move that the bill be read a thud time at a later period. The
proposition of the noble lord to take the £5 franchise, instead of
£lO, was net the only thing they had to deal with ; the hon.
member for Dublin wished the £lll franchise to exist, but with-
out the test of rating. (Hear,.hear ) Now to that he never
could consent. There was another stipulation made by his hon.
friend, which was only secondary in importance to that of the
frauchse—he alluded to the coinpulsory obligation of receiving
the benefit of the hilt by the inhabitants of towns. A petition had
been presented from the city of Belfast, stating that the desire
for change in municipd institutions was not so violent as had
been imagined. "And he (Lora F. Egerton) felt a strong ob-
jection o toe making-it compulsory upon the towns of Ireland
to receive the benefits of this hel. There was a third puipt in
the power of administering the police being conferred upon the
borough inAgistrates. Why, in Ireland, the government had
evaiiii.,b,n a constabulary force, vesting the command in the
• executive and in the case of the city of the Lo dun an inten-
tion had been announced to take truth time magistrates of that
city the management of the metropolitan police. (Hear, hear.)
Was that to be designed an "Insult" in Ireland, which was
considered quite regular in England ? (Loud cheers) It was
stated as a main "condition en which the assent of this. (the
opposition.) side of the house should be given, that some settle-
nytetaaolliti he known-and. IlOderstnri4 to -hetrettaken place on.
toe subject of that bill; which s;) intimately concerned the Irish.
efitirch. (fleas, bear.) 'File noble lord- concluded by moving,
that the bill be read a third time that day three months.
Mr. E. TES:NEWT rose to second the motionnf the noble lord;
lint at the same time he must say, that he ileepv regretted that
it hail been found impossible to crone to an amicable and final
settletnent of the question. No-rine felt a greater desire to paSs
a beneficial measure; but it was impossible for him to assent
to_stich a bill.asahis, which would be Nutlet:five of the areatest
misfortunes to- the -country. He concluded by seconding the
mojaou,
Mr -HARING WA LL said, in the course lie was about to take
he had nothing to explain. He had attended no meeting-a, and
never expressed himself otherwise than he did now—that he was
inefavoUr of an extensive measure of municipal'reform, and that
he thought it hail been too long delayed. (Hear, hear.) He
did not comedown to this house to drive a hard bargain. (Cheers
from the ministerial belittles. y lie did not w tete to try how little
he could ewive, but how much (near) —and he thought the
people of Ireland. as much entitled to a full measure of justice
as the people of any other portion of the empire. ( Loud cheers.)
Five pound, eight pound, or ten, hard no magic fur him; all he
wanted was inquiry, and in the absence of that, he felt bound
to give the benefit of the douots he entertained to the more liberal
measure. (Cheers.) He trusted the noble lord opposite would
give his sanction to no measure that would nut give perfect
justice to Ireland, which he felt convinced one day or other she
would posse-s. (Loud cheering.) He thought the more manly
course-would be to take the £5 franchise, and he femur./ not-but
regret that some compromise had not come from his side of the
house. He, thought the offer of the noble lord ought to have
been met in the same spirit in which it was given, and on that
ground he would cote with the Queen's government. (Cheers ),
Cries for a division now became hind and general, and the
galleries were cleared, but no division took place.
On our return, -Lord EatoT said he had hoped sonic modifi-
cation would have been made by government, so as to secure
bond fide quaiification. -Not having theme so, they dr 've. him to
the alternative of voting against the third reading cif this bill.
burl 31mtpETH said his noble friend '(Lord .1. Russell) was
wilting to enter into any adjustment; but the raisin, of the
franchise was one of those points 'he-could not yield. They did
not consider themselver irrevocaidy bound to the £5 qualification
they declared themselves ready to listen to any fair and reason-
able suggestion which would-have the effect of ultimately secur-
ing the success of the bill; but'alt hough abundaut opportunities
had been given, no such proposition had been made. '!'here
was no approach to an arrangement on the other side, and they
therefore did not think themselves warranted in departing from
the £5 franchise, which tested by a rating would,. he really be-
lieved, cotne up'to a 6mile:fide £lO qualification.
Sir R. Page said what were the nroposa;s he (Sir R. Peel) had
made? '!'hat the franchise should be un if 'rm. this had been as-
sented in; that the test soould be by rating, this had been assented
to; and that the franchise slifiuld•he a £lO qualification, to be de-
termined by rating, this hail been rejected. The question was,
is the test a good one! if it raiser( the test above £lO, it is a
had one. (" Hear" from the ministerial benches.) If a£s
franchise was meant, say so; if au £B, say so; or it a £lO, say
it; but do not talk of a loose and unsatisfactory one. No man
could get up and say that a £lO franchise 'ought to be less than
a 11ona fide one. What he had-sant from the first was, that the
£lO should be a bona fde value ; he did not want; be never
meant, to raise it in Ireland to £l2 or £2O. He repeated that,
after the fullest consideration, he could not 'consent to accept
any thing less than what he had required at 'the outset, a bcna
fide holding of £lO, as it was. considered in England, namely,
net left to the opinion of the party, lint ascertained by rating;
and he now declared he (lid net believe, leaking to the princi-
ple of the parliamentary franchise, that it was an tin reasonable
proposal on his pert, or the' the house erfuld reject either the
amount of the franchise or time test he mope:ed.
Mr. Rice said God he accepted the statement of the right
honotraaie gezitlnt,,t), ii. rYnn ire :Mr:peed, that, it rating es
proposal, raised the bona fide value alcove £lO, it tease bad test.
The queYwit het,Yeeti Built skies- of the hens, was, whether a
rated, valve of El 9 mtas, or was not, higher than the actual
value. lie had new heforeAim a valuation of the houses through-
out the whole district of time new town of Limerick, and he en-
treated of the right hon. gentielnan, amid of hen. memberanetes.
site, to give oink their attention, is hi.e he 'hawed whet was the '
difference bet wecathe parecaial rate and the bona,fide tent paid
by the lessee, The first class ofebouses rented itr£ll;o were
rated at no more than LSO; houses rented at £95 wet e rated at
£75; where rented at.i;;Al-were rated at 435; houses paying a
rent of £6O were rated at £10; and houses subject to a rent of
£55 Were rated at '£3s. In the smaller houses, the inequality
was still greater, and a house paying a rent of £2O was rated
only at £l2. Hail he mot, then, made our his eetee ? He would
tell ;he right hon. gentleman, that a £ll.l franchise, coupled with
rating; nomad disfranchise some of the beat and must legitimate
£11) seders that either Eagle nil, Mcleod, or Scotland could fur-
nish. , (Cheers frein the mmitistetial benches.)
After a few words from, Mr. Shaw, Mr. Roche, Mr. Slanev,
and Mr. Freed, the house divided, when time numbers appeared
—For the third reading, 169; against it, 134; majority 35.
The an-noonceinerit of the numbers was received with loud
cheers from the ministerial side of the house,—The bill then
passed.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAY.
The Mar;pis or WeSTMOISTER deferred till next session his.
contemplazed motion on the subject. of, their liirdships' vote'by
proxy.
Earl Ftrzwrt.t.i Am defended the.system of vntinZ hy'proxy,
declaring that to reality the eon-moos' members voted h% proxy,
inasmuch as they registered the votes commanded by their con-
stituents. •

•
Lord BaouGi-t 4 M s.,iidthat he neither agreed with this proxy
system, nor the firt.ore. of it.
The.Bishni) deferred the presentation of the peti-
tion on the sohjeet of na;iou-.lPdoeltinn.
The report of the Poor ti.-tit.r (Irola.uly Bill was, after some
desultosv,disenssion, agreed to, and the bill ordered to be read
the thir.l time ou Friditu, July 6.
The
,Municipal Corpo.r.ition, (Ireland) Bill was read a first,
and ordered to be read the,se-corid.time on Monday..
Their lordships tht!wadjourned till Friday.

HOUSE OF, CONIIONS.—TuEsns
GRANT, of Grant, the informality having been removed,
was enabled to take the oaths and his seal.
,Alrlerman Sir 111.. Woo n, brought in the'Westtninster im-
provement hill, which was read the third time:
Mr. I,s ao ITC 14 EetE, in nswer Sir .1. Gtahani's
stated that he proposerl to abandon the I lth and 12tb clauses of
the mails. on railways. bill, though he retained his opinion of
their nevessiiv and efficacy; that-he should s'o alter the bill as
to empower the government to proceed on the principle
of arhi-
tration. but that should he not find the bill to work sat istarlorily,
k secure the despatch of mails ys, he should next
;V introd,,ce a hill to rernedli-stich defect.
Lopsiio deferrerttill..T9t,s, Itt hiltnotion re,...;ajdlngthe
. foan Adbativ,'Cape oc Oesiti
.o;4* 1
_j% `4.; Sil• 47414 a said, that if t'he,44.,:p.propriation" n t
1)4 lejinto the. tithe (Ire Lund) hill, tie shniti,l, hlovqas an
4',..„1'"*
).4111 ilsiten that tre.' deferred ti:: "Ihat dadthree
.4. 4L vtugtha ;'ti
(„ •--e:Z.AS4
• ?cr)
eV-
;)
gYilA'Njtl~ sad.,'•
'0
a'jZier

ROUSE OF_ 14.0.14.1354,M0NDA.Y.
• rmf ftht:6l4 k St:- at the requ,•st of Lo d Al IN TO, -expressed
-his readiness to defer -his 'mot ion_regkriling the negro appren
', th:esterptsytt ern:
The Bishop of Exv.TEnpreseoted a p-.tit.i-m from k parish in
Ely, complaining toat the guirdians tpol prevented. the paupers
frima attending Divine worship on Sundays,...l4-tbe• parish
church.
An interesiing conversation on the subject or the execution
of the poor law amendment act, followed. •
The Marquis of Lori DON pEttat gave notice, that on a:future
day he would move for the copy of a circular, to'rwarded by the
I,,rd-lieutenaht of Ireland to lords-lieutenant of counties, &e.
His lordship then made some inquiries regarding the arrange-
ments of the coronation procession, as respected; the attend-
ance of the representatives of foreign powers. • ••
Lord MktnourtNE answered that it was the intention to afford
accommodation to the cltirgissraffaires of Mexico, &c.
Lord -LYNDHURST then lirouoht forward the subject of the
appointment of sheriffs in Ireland. and urged inquiry into the
-practical alterations introduced therein under the administra-
tion of the present bard-lieutenant; •
An extended discussion then took place, during which many
`noble lords delivered their opinions on the.question, after which
the motion, having been amended at the suggestion of the
Marquis of Clanricarde, was agreed to.—Adjourned.

At the sugzestion of• Mr, 1-I.OIE, it was orderded.that roe-rd-.
llers-assentAtte at "nine" instead of " eight" of the clock on
Thuriday morning, on the Occasion of the coronation.
Lord Pt:NGAN:cox, having inquired whether there was any
probability :of any report from the chit:l;h leases committee,
.this session,
Lord J.' It essar,:. said that he could not answer forthecom-
mittee.

Sir E KNATCHBULL (Lord J. Russell baying requested that
the motion should have nrecedence) then moved the appoint-
ment of a select committee to inquire into all the circumstances
connected with the discharge of John Nicholl Thou', alias
Courtenay, from the Kent Lunatic Asylum. • - •
Lord J: RUSSELL said that though he viewed the_Orcum-
stances with great pain, he objected not to inquiry, and felt
that the government had no reason to fear it. _

After COnsideraide discussion, the motion was agreed to; but
the proceeding's were stOrin'y and personal.
The naming of the committee, amid divisions and expiana.
lions, concluded the business:

The remainid,2 notices and orders having been disposed o
the house adjourned.

HOUSE OF COM MONS.—WEDN ES DA Y.
The Speaker took the chair at four o'clock.
The preientatiOn of petitions occupied the house until five
o'clock.