The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-07-12 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL

LIVERPOOL TOWN COUNCIL.

MEETING YESTERDAY.

- -
The monthly and special meeting of the Council (post-
poned from Wednesday last in consequence of the elec-
tion) was held yesterday, the Mayor presiding.
The proceedings, resolutions, and reports of the Finance
Committee comprised—Further consideration of report of
Surveyor as to ventilation of the Council-chamber, post-
poned at the last monthly Council ;—Report of Town-
clerk , according to the instructions o the Council at the
last meeting on the resolutions of the magistrates as to
the parochial business ; and further consideration of the
resolutions of the magistrates as to that business ;—Re-
commendation to purchase freehold property in Erskine-
street,--namely, a house and 1,458 square yards of land,
or thereabouts, for the sum of £1,525 ;—Recommenda-
tion to purchase the leasehold interest of Mr. Jas. Winkop
in a public-house, Hurst-street, for the sum of £6OO ;
Recommendation to grant the reversion of a house in
Oxford-street, for a parsonage-house attached to the
church of St. Stephen, Martyr ;—Recommendation to
increase the salary of Mr. Venn to £5OO per annum.

ENLARGEMENT AND VENTILATION OF THE COUNCIL

CHAMBER-PROPOSED ADMISSION OF THE PUBLIC.

Mr. HOWSBY, in moving the confirmation of the pro-
ceedings, would do so seriatim. The first was the report
of the surveyor as to the ventilation of the council
chamber. He thought that the surveyor had advanced
sufficient reasons for making it appear clear to the council
that any enlargement of that room was quite unnecessary,
and that it could not be carried out without very much
interfering with the public business at the Town-hall.
He looked upon it that they were bound to adopt the
surveyor's report.
The motion having been seconded,
Mr. WOODRUFF said that before the report of the sur-
veyor was adopted, perhaps the council would allow the
motion to be taken which he had upon the paper ; and per-
mission having been given, Mr. Woodruff brought forward
the following motion, of which he had given notice:—
"That previously to any arrangement being sanctioned
by the Council for enlarging or ventilating the Council-
chamber, the surveyor be instructed to report whether it
is practicable, and to what extent, to find accommodation
for strangers during the sittings of the Council, their ad-
mission to be regulated by orders from members of
the Council, or tickets, as the Council may here-
after determine." When the question of venti-
lating the Council-chamber was last before the
Council, it would be remembered that Mr. Gladstone
seemed to have some plan in his mind for enlarging the
Chamber, so as to admit strangers. His (Mr. Woodruff's)
impression 'was, that the burgesses had a legal right to be
present during the deliberations of the Council, and that
it was against the spirit of the law to hold their sittings
with closed doors. It was well known, that most of the
corporations of England admitted strangers, and he
did not see why Liverpool, being one of the first
corporations in the country, should not adopt
the principle. He knew it would be urged by some
that his suggestion could not be carried out with conve-
nience He was aware it could not be done in that room,
but he contended that it could easily be effected by acme
Other arrangement. They were there assembled as public
trustees, and if they could by any means afford conveni-
ence for the admission of the public, he hoped they would
not now refuse to sanction, at least, the principle. He
believed that the admission of strangers to their delibera-
tions was a question which the public would properly
appreciate, and that a great number would avail them-
selves of it. As far as the principle was concerned, he
repeated that strangers had a right to demand admission
to their debates ; and he thought that if any person was to
come and demand admission at the present time, and if
the question as to his right of admission was put to the
Town-clerk, he would hardly take 'upon himself to say
that the party should not be admitted,
The MAYOR.—I certainty should, Mr. Woodruff.
Mr. WOODRUFF o Well, he nevertheless thought the
public had a right to be present, and he hoped the Council
would now admit the principle. Some gentlemen might
argue that as the reporters were allowed to be present,
there was no necessity for admitting the public, but
whilst he admitted that the 'reporters did justice to the
various members of the Council; and sometimes did more
for them than they were entitled to, newspaper reports
were necessarily obliged to be condensed, and consequently
the public were not made acquainted with all that teok
place. He therefore hoped that the Council would affirm
the principle of his motion.
The MAYOR inquired if Mr. Woodruff intended the
motion as an amendment.

Mr. Voonrtt•Fr- replied in the affirmative, becatse, he
remarked, if they adopted the surveyor's report, it-seemed
to him that his motion would be useless.

Mr. DOVER thought it had better be considered as a
distinct motion rather than as an amendment.

Mr. HOFINDY, on the same side, said Mr. Woodruff bad
better allow the surveyor's report to pass, ar.d then his
proposal might be brought forward afterwards.
Tie TowN-eLEat-said it might be necessary to explain
that this matter did not now come before the Council in
the ordinary way. 'lt was deferred at the last meeting of
the'Council, and If the report was now carried, he was of
epinion that Mr. Woodruff's motion would be useless.
Mr. Woodrtiff's-motion having been seconded,
'Mr. PICTON said he would suggest to Mr. Woodruff the
propriety of postponing his motion for the present. There
were many considerations involved in it. It was. not
merely the enlargement of that room, 'but an
.inter-
ference with the 'various offices throughout the building.
Ile question was whether it would not be better
to remove the -Council Chamber from that building'
altogether. (Hear, hear.) Very shortly St. George's-
hall would be completed, where there would be a fine
room, and where every accommodation could be provided
for what had been named by Mr. Woodruff. The subject
was one of great importance, and he thought the Council
would be of opinion that it might be brought forward at a
more convenient time than the present. Whatever might
be done in reference to Mr. Woodrtitrs motion, it would
obviously require much consideration, whereas 'the ques-
tion of ventilating the council chamber was a pressing
one. It seemed to him most desirable to have the sur-
'veyor's plans carried out, and therefore he thought it
would be much 'better that the Couneachould confirm the
surveyoes report, and that Mr. Woodruff should for tiro
present withdraw his motion.

Mr. WOODIC7FF then agreed to withdraw the motion
for the present, in accordance with Mr. Picton's sugges-
tion, believing that on the principle invclved in his motion
he had the Council with him.

The surveyor's report, containing a suggestion for the
better ventilation of the council chamber, was then con
rmed.

THE lIAGISTZATES' CLERKS AND THE PAROCHIAL

BUSINESS.

Mr. lIORNUY next moved the co nfirmation of that part
of the Finance, -Committee's proceedings, recommending
that the salaries of Mr. Wybergh and Mr. Garnett, the
magistrates' clerks, be increased.£loo a year each,ln con-
sideration of their undertaking to perform the parochial
badness of the,parish, since Mr. Lowudes had resigned
the office of legal adviser of the parish.

. -
Mr. Aldermiv,DovEn strongly opposed the motion,
and moved, as .an amendment, that the salary of ,Alr.
Garnett be increased £lO a year, and that of Mr.Wybergh
£5O a year. The,office which these .gentlemen had under-
ta'sen to fill, now that Mr. Lowndes had resigned, was
simply a sinecure, sand these were not the days for perpe-
tuating sinecures. He would give them an illustration of
the office and the nature of the duties tc be performed.
Mr2Lowndes' salary was £4OO a year, but in addition
to this there were d:stinct charges made whenever there
was any parish bualness of the slightest-consequence to
perform. In proof of this he might inform the Council
that during the time be (Mr. Dover) occupied tile office
of churchwarden and overseer, he paid Mr. Lowndes
the suns of £2,000, in addition to the f.xed salary
of £4OO. (Hear, hear.) The fact was, that the ordinary
legal business of the parish was in reality-performed by
the vestry-clerk, and not by the magistrai;es' clerks.
BLADLEY seconded the amendment.

Mr.' Alderman PARxo. remarked that, if tho office was
a .sinecure, as stated by 31r. Dover, it was inconsistent to
eve any advance of salary at all. (Hear, hear, from Mr.
Bigharn,) lie hoped the notion of the chairman of the
finance Committee would be put, in the usual way, and
then he (Mr. farker) shotld have another amendment to
move on it..

Mr. .40-iso.Y agreed with Hr. Parker that, if the office
Was a sinecure, Mr. Dover's amendment was inconsistent.
Besides that, it was invidious in making such a .marked
distinction between Mr. Wybergh and Mr. Garnett, 'Mr.
Avisou then denied that there were not legal duties to
Perform. The qaestion did not seem to be properly tun-
derstood. The fact was that 'Mr. Lowndes, having re-
Signed the office of legal adviser to the parish, the magis-
trates had :appointed Mr. Wybergh and Mr. Garnett to
perform the duties. These duties, therefore, they would
have to perform, and would be responsible for them. He
thought, ecasidering all the circumstances, that, if the
Council was to give them anything all, it should be at
least £lOO a year each, _ _

Mr. I3TGHA denied the arguroezts put forward b
Mr. Avison, and ccuteaded that there ought to be no
advance whatever.

Considerable discussion followed, in wh,:ch several mem-
bers took part.
Mr. CHARLES ThaNEn.sa:d the question.to him seemed
tto be whether the; were to have a legal adviser to the
parish or not. It had been stated that the legal du-
tits of the parish were performed by the vestry clerk,
but the vestry clerk was not a lawyer. Now, Mr. Lovvndes
was a professional man, and all legal doeuments,conneeted
with the parish were sect to Mr. Lowndes, and approved
of by him before the magistrates would act upon them.
The question then was, would they continue to have a
legal adviser for parish business? and if so, the neat ques-
tton was, who was to undertake the duties, and .do it
economically ? As far as he could understand, they.tould
not compel the magistrates' clerks to perform those duties
without a special remumeration, and he did not think
that they could point to any other gentlemen more able
to perform them.
Mr. PICTON thought the question was not yet fairly
before the Coun,"il. It seemed to him that this matter
belonged principally to the magistrates, and was their
business only. He warned the Council against confirm-
!rig the proposed advance to the magistrates' clerks ; for,
if they did pass it, they might depend upon it that it
would be again and again agitated, and after all a person
to perform these duties would be appointed, distinct alto-
geottliiledr
fifrn i
odmatdhietriny
magistrates'llt clerl-' s and in that case they
w
in reducing" the salaries of the ma-
gistrates' clerks f the proposed addition was made. His
own opinion was, that a person ought to be appointed to
preparepeform a
retheseduceduties l e
oafnile
eztha
outt tohfewh Councill shouldou,ht
bteo
paid. He did not think it was consistent Nscltlitethedignity
of the Council that the borough fund should be swelled
by the payment of such fees as were collected from this
source.

Mr. HOWNIIY, in replying, agreed with Mr. Turner,
that the magistrates would not recognise any legal docu-
ment signed by Mr. Hart. It was in the power of the
magistrates to act upon the late arrangement and appoint
a person to succeed Mr. Lowndes, and in that case the
Council might again have £lOO a year to pay. The only
remedy for the evil complained of was that suggested by
Mr. Picton, and it was one which had frequently been
before the Finance Committee, and which they thought
of adopting.
After some further conversation, Mr: DOVER agreed to
withdraw his amendment, as also did Mr. Alderman
PARKER 4 further amendment, on the tuittrance given by