The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1846-01-20 00:00:00

trade or occupation in the kingdom. This fact alone was
sufficient to stamp the importance of this trade ; and so far
from its being a declining trade in this town, he had every
reason to believe that as increased facilities were given for
taking timber into the country, so would the trade be
pushed beyond its present limits. Hitherto there had been
no accommodation for it at the north end at all—at least
comparatively none, because while there were only
100,000 tons at the north end, there were 1,300,000 tons
at the south. But when increased facilities were given at
the north by the railways making there for carrying the
timber away, not only would it go there, which it could
without expense, but from the north it would go to all the
districts where the Liverpool, Bolton, and Bury railway,
(hear, bear, from Mr. James Brancker,) and the intended
Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston railway, would
run, and would find a mart in every place connected
with those lines. At present it might be said the timber
trade met at Birmingham because it came there just in
collision with the port of Gloucester : but Liverpool being
a much greater and more important port, it would in all
probability push the trade beyond Birmingham. At all
events, the trade was a very increasing one, and it would
continue to increase so long as the Grand Junction railway
followed the wise policy which they had latterly done, of
reducing their rates of carriage. He had before him a
very elaborate document, which it would take too much
time to read entire, and therefore he would read only the
heads of it, for which he was indebted to a gentleman
whose accuracy he was sure every one would appreciate
when he stated it had been drawn up by Mr. Rankin.
From this document the Council would see the number
of vessels, and their tonnage, employed exclusively in the
timber trade in the port of Liverpool, from 1838 to the
present year; and he ought to mention that all vessels
bringing other cargoes, besides timber, had been entirely
excluded :

Year No. of Vessels Tons
1838 305 • . 160,030
1839 .. 339 • . 170,000
1840 .. 230 .. 174,000
1841 318 • • 174,000
1842 • • 165 91
1843 316 107,000
,000
1844 367 .. 188,000
1845 440 .. 234,000
It was in 1844 that the timber trade was said to be on
the decline : yet it would be seen, that in 1845 there had
been an enormous increase both in ships and tonnage.
This table alone would be sufficient to show the council
the importance of the timber trade, and how inadequate
had been the accommodation afforded to it in this port.
There had been an extraordinary increase in several par-
ticular descriptions of timber. One of these was ma-
hogany, to which the Dock Committee particularly
directed their attention some four or five years ago, with
the view of affording more accommodation. He would
give, for the last three or four years, the increase in
pieces and feet, commencing with 1838, because he had
commenced the return of the ships and tonnage with that
year :
Year. Feet and Pieces. Year. Feet and Pieces.
1838 15 millions 184 2 9 millions
1839 - 16 ~ 1843 17
1840 11 ~ I 1844 21 „
1841 16 ~ I 1845 30 „
Comment upon this was unnecessary, and it would be
unnecessary for him to say another word to make out a
case to show the necessity for increased accommodation.
It had been stated in that Council more than once or
!twice, that the dearness of the port of Liverpool was
against its interest, and that it was dearer in port charges
than other places. Now in order to afford gentlemen an
opportunity of ascertaining the dearness of the port of Li-
verpool, he bad brought with him a parliamentary return
of last year, containing the charges at every other port in
the kingdom, and it would be proved, on comparing all
their charges, that Liverpool was a very moderate an oleheap
port. He need not go further with this subject, but he
would lay the book on the table for the inspection of
any gentleman who chose to examine it. It would be
proved that for what was charged in Hull Is. 3c1., we
charged ls. ; what was charged 10d., we charged 9d. ;
and that what was charged ls. 9d. per ton, we only
charged Is. 6d. In fact, Is. 6d. was our maximum rate.
It would be preposterous to make a comparison of the
charges in the port of Liverpool with those of the
port of Bristol, because they were so great there as
not to require further allusion. London was dearer
than Liverpool. There was. one point immediately
connected with the necessity of affording increased dock
accommodation which be had nearly omitted, and that
was the coal trade. The coal trade was a trade wholly
and entirely unaccommodated in the port of Lis e-pool.
(Hear). He anticipated a vet y large revenue to arise to
the dock estate from this branch of business, for which
there was at present no accommodation, when the Council
took into account the immense and rich zoal-field through
which the Liverpool, Bolton and Bury railway passed.
(Loud cries of "Hear, hear" from Mr. JAS. BRANCKER.)
Without any great stretch of imagination, he thought this
same coal trade alone would soon require a dock exclu-
sively for its accommodation, and for its special and sole
use. (Hear, hear.) Liverpool had hitherto exported
nothing in the way of coal, because it was only taken out
as a matter of convenience in the shape of ballast. About
one million tons came into Liverpool annually, yet out of
that there had not been in 1842 more than 117,000 tons
exported. He had no hesitation in saying from his own
experience, that when such facilities were afforded that
coal could be brought down and at once put cn board the
vessel from the railway trucks, without the expense of
cartage, it would become a very important trade in this
port. In his own experience, he had frequently been un-
able to execute orders for coal, and had been obliged to
send them to Newcastle and other places, owing to the
want of accommodation; but when the railways he bad
mentioned were opened, passing as they did through such
fields, he anticipated the time, and he should be borne out
in saying he was not assuming too much—when we
should be able to compete with Newcastle and other
places as an exporting place for coal. (Hear.) This, in-
deed would be very easy when we took into account the
immense commerce which Liverpool had with all parts of
the world. Here when vessels had nothing to do, the owners
preferred laying them up rather than undertake a voyage
with a cargo of.coal at the present cost of embarking it at
this port ; but when the facilities were given which he had
pointed out such vessels would not be allowed to be idle.
They would be sent with coal to many different parts of
the world, and thus it would be a very easy matter for
the tonnage of the port to be increased simply by coal be-
ing brought into the town so much cheaper. 400,000 or
500,000 tons would be comparatively nothing to export;
but the coal trade must of necessity increase, because the
demand for it all over the world for steamers was daily
increasing. He might therefore venture to say that Li-
verpool would become a considerable port for the export
of coal, and that this trade alone would, at no distant day,
require the accommodation of a dock exclusively.
(Cheers.) The increase of tonnage which he had shown
in the last two years, was equal to the entire tonnage
turned out and the business done in George's Dock,
King's Dock, Queen's Dock, and Salthouse Dock, in the
aggregate. (Cheers.) This fact would give the Council
an opportunity of estimating whether the increase which he
had brought under their no ice would not give ample oc-
cupation to every dock now in course of construction ;
but to make it more familiar he would confine it to
Victoria, Waterloo, Prince's, and George's Docks, which
were the four first docks of the port. This increase of
tonnage in two years would require as much accommoda-
tion as those four: docks had afforded during the last
year, and they had been unprecedently and inconveniently
crowded in the business that had been transacted there.
He might reasonably assume that at least 25 per cent.
more accommodation would be required than they afford..
ed ; and therefore he said there was ample trade at the
present moment to occupy every dock now in course of
construction, without at all looking into futurity. But
they must look into futurity. Liverpool must take care of
her trade; and that Council as trustees of the docks, and
he might say trustees of the town, were called upon to see
that ample and plentiful provision was made, not only
for the existing wants of the port, but for its probable
wants. And in doing that they were not to: be influ-
enced in any way whatever by anything to which he had
reason to believe' attention would be called, doing in an.
other quarter. (hear, hear.) What they had to do was
to provide accommodation for the port of Liverpool, ir-
respective of whatever might be done on other parts of
the Mersey. (loud cheers.) With these views he con-
fidently and strongly recommended to the protection of
the Council the plans now before them. (hear, bear.]
He had said enough he thought upon these different
heads ; his next proposition therefore would take them to
the estimates of the cost, to show that the Dock Committee
were not going to pay more than the state of their
finances warranted, nor more than the wants of the port
demanded. The first point to which he would call atten-
tion was the valuation. The .valuation of the property
had been made by two eminent valuators, of whom it
would be sufficient to say he believed they had: rather the
credit of over than undervaluing, in order to make sure of
their ground. The property had been valued by Mr.
Stewart and Mr. Wightmao, consequently no doubt could
be raised as regarded the value. He would now take the
Council to the estimates. They had already been read,
therefore he should be very brief upon them. The total
amount, it would be perceived, was £531,0001 from which
must be deducted £68,000, to which item he must call
particular attention. The reason of this being deducted
was, that under the circumstances of the intended rail-
way, they would have to pull down sundry stacks of
buildings, which were marked upon the plan, which would
cost about that sum. Whether the proposed plans were
carried or not, this expenditure would be necessary in order
to carry out the intended railway, the object of which, as
the Council were aa are, was to facilitate and cheapen
this port, because, he ventured to say, the utility of the
Albert Dock warehouses, without a railway communi-
cating with them, on which the trucks could be brought,_
and the merchandize be conveyed direct to Manchester,
or any other place, wi'thout incurring one farthing's ex-
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absolute necessity for that purpose, whether this plan of
eehoppeodin to
t
extension should be carried or not ; and it was not
aasuming too much to deduct the amount :from the
o estimate
accommodation of the cost
which
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obtain, and about which they thought there would be no
difficulty with the proper authorities, would be an addi-
the
tional street for the accommodation of the public to the
eastward of the proposed works. The Dock Committee;
of course, were not called upon to provide for the im-
provement of the town ; and they apprehended there
would be no difficulty on this subject, because the im-
provement was so apparent, but the advantages of it so
great. No difficulty on this point could therefore arise.
The next thing to which he would call attention was
the estimated cost of the new works. The cost of
the dock, and the limproverrients at Wapping, would be
£463,186, which would include an area of 5 acres 235
square yards. Then 'the railway would cost £63,400
making a total of £531,586, and a total area of 8 acres
478 yards, including 1 acre 1671 yards of water.
, Mr. W. EARLE.—What kind of acres ?

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORS—Statute acres.
Mr. EARLE—It is as well to know, for sometimes it is
convenient to call them Cheshire acres.
Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said, they were not in the
habit of doing so. This would make a total of 8 acres
478 yards, at a cost of £457 per lineal yard. Now, in
order that the subject might be properly understood, he
must call the attention of the Council to the cost of other
works which had been erected in the town, because that
would form a very good criterion to many who were not
so well acquainted with dock works as the members of
the Dock Committee. The cost of the present works,
then, would be £457 per lineal yard. The Prince's
Dock cost £670,000, or £564 per lineal yard, therefore,
they would perceive that the Prince's Dock cost 25 per
cent. more than the proposed improvements. The North
Docks, which were now in course of erection, would c, st
about £221 per lineal yard—the Albert Dock would cost
£353 per lineal yard, or about 25 per cent. less than the
proposed scheme ; but, on the other hand, the Prince's

.
Clock cost 25 per cent. more, which must be taken into
account, and the Brunswick dock cost £325 per li?ieal
yard. Therefore, when they took and made an average
of those works, they would find the proposed works more
moderate than could be anticipated—more especially
when they took into account the densely populated state
of the neighbourhood. It had been thought by some
persons that the population was so dense that it was
totally impossible to carry out the new plans. He (Mr.
Moore) would therefore state, that the number of houses
to be pulled down amounted to 146, and if they took into
account the cellars which were occupied as separate dwel-
lings, there would be 285 ; but excluding these, the num-
ber was as he had stated, 246. With respect to the ware-
houses, he should leave that subject to be treated by his
friend Mr. Nicol, who was better acquainted with its
details than he (Mr. Moore) could be. When, however,
they took into account the cost of the new works, and
the number of families who would have to be displaced,
they would find the subject was not as difficult as many
were led to believe, nor would they find the works so
difficult, on comparing them with what had been done
in London. The London docks, excluding from con-
sideration the St. Katherine's and East and West India
docks, cost £4,000,000 of money ; 1 300 houses were pulled
down, and 2,000 families,aad to be removed. Now,
when the Council took to account the enormous
amount of property taken, and the great number of
of families removed, they would not be startled at the
number taken here, and the state of the property, houses
which would be much better removed than as they now
are. As to the effect of such removal on the health of
the town he should say nothing, but would leave his
friend, Mr. Tinne, to deal with that, merely adding that
he thought their removal would be of very great advan-
tage. (Hear, hear.) The next step would be to call the
attention of the Council to the state of the Finances of the
dock estate, for he trusted he had satisfactorily shown
that further accommodation was necessary, and he (Mr.
Moore) would undertake to show, with equal satisfaction,
that they were in a position, from the state of their finan-
ces, to undertake some great work. It had been stated
on a former occasion, that the Dock Committee had no
surplus revenue, hut he (Mr. Moore) was happy to state,
that they had a very large one, not only for the current
expenses of repairs, but also quite opal to pay interest
on the whole of their projected improvements without in-
creasing their dock rates at all. The surplus revenue of
the dock estate for the past year was £99,023 3s. sd.
A MEMBER.—For the pear ending 31st December?
Mr. BRAMLEY MOORS.—That was for the financial
year ending 24th June last. Now in that was included
£43,000 for repairs, which bad been unusually heavy
during the past year. The average of the repairs, &c.,
were generally something under £30,000, therefore, in ar-
riving at the surplus of £99,000, they should deduct the
sum of £43,000. To that must be added. and be felt as-
sured he should have the sanction of one gentleman pre-
sent for doing so, the profit on the Albert dock, which
was at present entirely unproductive. The profit of that
dock had been estimated before a Committee of the House
of Lords and Commons. at £38,000. He (Mr. Bramley
Moore,) was, however, willing to take it at £30,000,
which reckoning the present surplus, as it imight be, in
round numbers, at £lOO,OOO, would make a clear surplus
income of £130,000, and he felt quite sure by the time
that dock was in operation it would exceed that. Under
these circumstances he thought the bond-holders would
have no cause for alarm, but would be perfectly satisfied
with the state of their affairs. The present bonded debt
was £2,500,000, and they could bear as much as would
make it £4,000,000, at which it might be taken in round
numbers. Therefore, with their present surplus, they
might very safely undertake not only the works now in
progress, but they were at liberty to do a great deal more,
if the trade of the port should hereafter require it. He
considered they were called upon to de this, because so
long as they afforded the necessary accommodation in the
town of Liverpool for the trade of the port, so long would
they keep the trade of the potft at Liverpool, and on this
side of the Mersey. He, therefore, thought after the
statement be had made to them connected with the state
of dock affairs, that they were in & position not only to
undertake the works now proposed, but that no alarm
need be entertained that they were either going into diffi-
culties, or into schemes of too gigantic a scale. His own
opinion was, that they could not do that for the trade of
the port had increased, and he had no hesitation in saying
it would increase, therefore, he looked upon those who
would get up the cry of alarm to the bondholders as
. _

pursuing a scheme purely chimerical and visionary.
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) There was another matter
to which he wished to draw the attention of the Council,
and that was, that during the progress of the works the

Salthouse Dock would only have in be closed for about
three months. The next subject to which he would call

their attention was the Manchester Basin. He had said
enough with regard to the wan: and necessity for further
dock accommodation, and with regard to the finances of
the Dock Committee ; and, therefore, he would only
briefly allude to the proposed plan at the Manchester
Basin, the object of which was to provide such accom-
modation as would enable them to take away produce
either by land or water conveyance. It was not the inten-
tion of the Dock Committee to take the whole of that to
themselves, but to afford sheds and other facilities for
carriers. This would also, from its proximity, afford
increased accommodation for the working of the Albert
warehouses. There was only one other point to which
he wished to draw the attention of the Council, and that
was the subject of taking power to widen the new dock at
the south end, and to make a straight line, so as to have
larger quay space, from Sefton-street. They would then
have a dock equal to the Brunswick Dock, which was
the very best timber dock they could have. This was a
small matter, but it was absolutely necessary for the im-
provement of that land. Having gone through the whole
which he thought necessary connected with the want of
dock accommodation, and with respect to the estimates,
he woold 'just remind the Council of what be had said
with repect to the bonded debt and the surplus
revenue. The enormous increase in the amount of the
tonnage of the timber trade showed the great in-
crease of it—in fact, it was impossible to carry it on
without further accommodation, and therefore it was
absolutely necessary to do every thing they could to ac-
commodate it. Lastly, he wined again to call their aWn-
tion to another trade—tbecnal trade. They would be im-
peratively called upon to provide another dock at the north
end of the town, for the exclusive use of that trade. This
would be of great advantage to that trade, especially after
the railway was laid down, as that would afford facilities
to carry the coals along the docks to any part of the town,
and to put them on board vessels in any of the docks.
He was, however, quite convinced that with all this ac-
commodation they would, before four years had passed,
fall far short of affording the accommodation which the
port would require. Under these circumstances, it de-
volved upon him to recommend the proposed plans to the
Council for their sanction, and he did so with the convic-
tion that they were well worthy of such sanction, and that
now alone was the time to carry them out, or they would
never again have the opportunity. The speaker con-
cluded by moving that the proceedings of the Dock Com-
mittee be confirmed, and that they be empowered to take
the necessary steps, and prepare a bill, to carry out the
plans connected with them. .
Mr. ROBINSON seconded the motion. He considered'
the proposed plans would afford very great accommoda-
tion to the trade of the port. The scheme was a most
comprehensive one, and one which the town very much
needed. It would bring the docks into complete con-
nection with each other, so that a vessel could get from
one dock to another without the danger of going into the
river in stormy- weather. As respected the proposed ac-
commodation for the coal trade, he thought that was the
weakest point of the case, as it was not a trade ever
likely to require a dock for its accommodation. He
should, however, wish to see George's Dock widened,
for on the west side of that there was much land lying
waste, which, if turned into water space, would be much
more useful, and also the Albert warehouses completed at
once, if that were possible.
Mr. EVANS had heard, with very great surprise,
that they were to have anther open dock, in ad-
dition to the one hundred ,and eight acres of docks al-
ready in existence, and eighty acres which were in course
of construction, and which had not yet been brought into
play. The latter had not been at all taken into calcula-
tion, and he maintained they would provide accommoda-
tion for what would arise according to even the most san-
guine anticipation. He did not deny that the plan was a
very good one for the ground, and would have answered
very well numbers of years ago ; but the ancient policy of
-Liverpool had been not to run the risk of overdoing the
docks, because an empty dock re-acted upon the others in
the form of a charge. Now, the proposed dock would cost
100 per cent. higher than the rates they now had. He
had arrived at a calculation, and he understood from his
friend on his right that he was right, that the average in-
come of the docks was about £2,000 an acre. Now, the
object of the Dock Committee ought to he, to keep down
the port charges ; but, if they went on consuming the
surplus in the manner they were, they would find them-
selves one day in such a position that they could not re-
duce the dock rates, and it would be impracticable to
augment them. When they were owing £4,000,000 of
money, as was admitted, and which he looked upon as
the minimum, the interest on that, the annual average
cost of repa;rs which he had beard Mr. Hartley declare,
could not be reckoned at less than £3s,ooo—when to that
they added the cost of the repairs upon the new docks,
which would arise in time, and the expense of keeping up
the whole with dock masters and all sorts of things, be
thought they would not be far off an outlay of £250,000.
Now, he had heard it stated in a very surprising sort of
way that war would increase our commerce. That
could only be asserted by those who knew nothing,
from their own observation, about it (hear, hear). He
recollected being told by a person who was in Liverpool
during the last American war, that whole ranges of ware-
houses were empty, sad the docks were so scarce of ship-
ping that boats were to be seen in full sail in them. But
what sort of war would they have next? It would be
with one' nation ; and he was of opinion it would reduce
the commerce of the port not less than two-thirds.
However, the surveyor of, the docks—a man of very
great genius—however he might suggest improvements,

and be (Mr. Evans) had no doubt he could do that
adinfinilum, because be bad a penchant for building
docks, it behoved the Council to weigh well the point
to which dock affairs were coming—it behoved the
Council, as guardians of the dock estate, to weigh well
those circumstances, which, in all probability, the sur-
veyor had not taken into his consideration. He (Mr.
Evans) did think it would be utterly indefensible to go
into any measure that would augment the dock rates.
They had heard a great deal respecting the finances of the
dock estate for the past year, but that ought to be looked
upon as an exception. There was no question but they
had, during the past year, had an undue excitement in
the country; and he had heard it stated, that hundreds
of houses had been built in 1845, which it was very
duubtfol whether they would ever be tenanted. Now
those who were acquainted with Liverpool knew, that
for one year of excitement they had five of 'astride.
It was exceedingly probable that docks, in the position
proposed, would, from their central situation, have the
preference over others, but if they did they would render
others empty, which would increase the charge upon others
Another point he called attention to was the fact that
every small port in the kingdom would become a rival to
Liverpool, owing to the general establishment of railways.
A great deal had been said about affording additional ac-
commodation to the timber trade. Now he thought they
continued to do this at a less. He believed that trade to
be very greatly favoured in that respect, and there was
nothing which would feel more injuriously the effects of
any approach to increased port charges than that trade.
The speaker then condemned the alteration proposed on
the Harrington estate, by which they would have to drag
the timber up hill instead of its being on level ground.
Now, with regard to this trade, he thought Birkenhead
would supply any deficiency there might be in accom-
modation, and he had heard it stated, that much
of their proceedings, particularly in agitating new docks,
and hurrying every thing to parliament in this gigantic
way—he had heard it said that it was to pull down and
master Birkenhead or to compel the parties to call upon the
Liverpool authorities to resume the purchase. lie trusted
that would not be the case, for he should be very sorry to
see the commerce of England revert to those wporn it was
very probable would endeavour to burk the advantages
of the localities. Now the great advantage of Birkenhead
would be that they, if they managed their matters pro-
perly, would give the timber trade wharfs so that he con-
sidered 'so far from wishing to put down the docks
on "the other side of the Alersey, that they would
be the means of protecting the estuary and preserve
a good deal of the trade of the port which would
otherwise be lost to it. He, however, objected to
the new scheme because there was no provision for
warehouses on the quays. He had had some experience
as a member of the Improvement Committee, in the pur-
chase of land, and he would say don't give £lO or £l2
per square yard, but go and build warehouses upon your
old docks where the land will cost you nothing. He
therefore said it was the duty of the Council to refrain

from constructing any open dock until they could ac-
company it with the desired warehouses. Now he would
' have warehouses on every side of the docks and not on
one side only; but the present site was not suffic'ent for
warehouses .as there would only be about 35 feet left for
them, and it would require at least 100 feet. If the
Council resolved on accepting the plans he should cer-
tainly move that no docks be made without the accom-
panyment of warehouses. He should here be told that
these bad been a compact entered into with the ware-
house owners. That he took the liberty of denying, and,
in addition to his own testimony, read a letter from Mr.
Robertson Gladstone, as chairman of the sub-committee,
to show that the clause in the Albert Dock Act related to
docks already in existence. He expressed his opinion
that if the Council agreed to the proposal to construct a
dock without warehouses it would not be permitted out of
doors, and after observing that the Council were but im-
perfectly i❑formed, as to the details of the proposed plan,
he concluded with moving, as an amendment, that the
subject be deferred until the next Council.

After some conversation the amendment was altered, sO
as to fix the day for that day fortnight
Mr. RATHBONE seconded the amendment. He urged
upon the Council the necessity of delay before they ex-
pended so large a sum as that proposed, to see the effectof
the dock accommodation on the other side of the water,
where, in a few years, there would be 100 acres of dock
space, and also, if possible, to try the effect of lower dock
rates.

Mr. ALDERMAN NICOL said, with regard to the want
of infortiatiou which had been complained of, the very
same means had been adoptad on the present as on all
former occasions, to afford information, and as to the
value of the property, at the period of the adjournment,
the Council could not be in a better position than at pre-
sent. The Dock Committee had laid before them the es-
timated value of the property, as ascertained by Mr.
Stewart, and Mr. Wightman, and no better valuation
could be obtained. With regard to the complaint of Mr.
Evans, that they had departed from the ancient custom
of waiting until the trade of the port overtook them,
he thought if the Dock Committee deserved any credit at
all, it was for their departure from that ancient policy and
going on to provide for the future wants of the trade.
Now, what was the conduct of Mr. Evans, the declared
champion of the warehouse principle? Why he came
forward, after he had bound the Dock Committee hand
and foot, so that they could not move with respect to
warehouses on the dock quays, and objected to their pro-
ceeding because it did not embrace a plan f,r building
warehouses ! He (Mr. Nicol) however thought there
was some distinction between the proposed dock and
those already in existence, and the Council were aware
that the Dock Committee would not proceed with the
Albert warehouses until after a given time. Now was a
convenient time, and he thought the opportunity a favour-
able one for warehouse owners to come forward when
the bill was before Parliament, and permit claims to be
inserted, not only to allow the Albert warehouses to be
finished at once, but also to allow power to be obtained
for the erection of a line of warehouses on the east side of
the new dock. As to the increase of dock rates, there was
no fear of that, and his friend, the Chairman of the Dock
Committee, had shown that at present they were not
much in excess of any other port; and he (Mr. Nicol)
doubted very much whether they were higher than any
place in the kingdom. He, however, thought what the
Dock Committee had to do was to gi7e additional facili-
ties and accommodation to the port, and he thought no-
thing could be better than the plan of laying down rails
along the docks. A great deal, too, had been said about
the want of depots for the timber trade ; but that argu-
ment was exceedingly well met by the fact of there
being a railway along the sides .of the docks, which would
enable the merchants to take it away at once from the
ships to any part of the town or the kingdom. Mr.
Evans had, however, laid great stress upon the increase
of the trade of the port during the past year, which he
argued to be an unnatural state of things, owing to the
excitement which prevailed from railway speculation.
Now, what was the fact? Since that excitement bad
subsided the trade of the port had improved ; but the
trade had not increased in the same proportion during the
at so it 1178,6100 d d during
ri n
ing tlbBe44 formerto x9y7.eaoroso whilst
; for, n itlBin43t,he
year
was, therefore, evident that the excitement of the railways
had distracted the attention of those engaged in com-
apmasot
justeuyntea ended (1845) it only increased to £2,000. It
year,
com-
merce. Mr. Evans had stated that if war took place
trade would fall off; but there was another matter to be
considered, and that was, that if trade did fall oft ships
would require dock room ; for it was a fact that during
the depression of shipping the docks were more crowded
than at present, and during war, if they required.less sea
room, they would need more dock space. With respect
to there not being space enough for warehouses on the
east side of the proposed dock, he was of opinion that
those at the Albert Dock were inconveniently wide, and
much narrower would be more useful. He did not anti-
cipate any rivalry from the other side of the water, except
such as he hoped would be friendly for both sides, but it
would be a great fallacy for s tradesman to give himself
no trouble to accommodate his customers
.on the ground
that another shop was about to be opened in the adjoining
street. After alluding to the probable increase in the
corn trade, as anticipated by some parties, Mr. Nicol
concluded by deprecating delay.
Mr. PARKER said he would have supported the amend-
ment if he had thought it had been honest or straight-
forward, but its object was solely to defeat so good a
scheme.

'Mr. EA RLE replied to Mr• Parker, but approved of the
scheme if warehouses could be built around the docks.

Mr. STEWART approved of the scheme, but thought
the quay space hardly sufficient for warehouses. The es-
timated value :of the property which be and Mr. Wight-
man had made, was, however, only an approximation.
Mr. J. H. TURNER and Sir THOMAS BR tNCKER

approved of the scheme, but spoke in favour c f ware-
houses. .

Mr. BRAMLEY MOORS replied, and after some further
conversation the Council divided, when there appeared
for the amendment, Four • against it, 36.
For the amendment, Messrs. Rathbone, J.
Holmes, end Evans. Against it, Messrs W. Atherton,
J. Shaw, J. Brancker, Chalmer, Middleton, Littledale,
Tinne, Hende son, Stewart, Toulmin, Robinson, G. G.
Hornby, Boyden, Pemberton, J. N. Wood , Kaye, Kilshaw,
J. B. Lloyd, J. Hornby, Parker, Earle, Booker, Plump-
ton, Glazebrook, Mann, T. Lloyd, R. Houghton, James
Lawrence, Sir Thomas Brancker, J. H. Turner, Nicol,
J. Bramley Moore, Alolyreux, J. S. Leigh, Chilton, and
the Mayor.
Mr.- EVANS then moved, that the Town-clerk should
give his opinion, and, if necessary, take counsel's opinion
, upon the construction of the clause in the Albert Dock
Act relating to the warehouses.
This was not, however, put as a motion, it being
understood, however, that the Town-clerk should not
do so.
Mr. EVANS then moved another amendment, to the
effect that the Council should not approve of the scheme
without warehouses on the quay, and that the measure
be referred back for that purpose.
Mr. J. HoLmns seconded the-amendment.
Mr. EARLE wished Mr. Evans to withdraw the
amendment, it being understood that the question was
under the consideration of the Dock Committee, who
wcre anxious for the introduction of powers to erect
warehouses.
Mr. EVANS, however, declined, and, after some con-
versation on the subject, the second amendment was put
and lost, the numbers being three for it, viz., Mr.
Chalmer, Mr. Evans, and Ml.. Procter. and thirty-four
against, including the seconder, Mr. J. Holmes.
The original motion was then put and carried, and the
Council adjourned at a quarter past three.

A paragraph in the Chester Courant and other papers,
which we dopy in another column, states that the Chester
and Birkenhead Railway has been leased to the London
and Birmingham Grand Junction, or Chester and. Holy-
head. We have inquired into the report since the para-
graph was in type and find tbe fact to be that the Chair-
man of the Chester and Birkenhead railway• without, as
we understand, the sanction-of the beard, offered.tbe line
to all these patties, but that it bas been declined by each.