The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-03-26 00:00:00

1 to enable married couples to_ live together in %writ

Sir E. St

The separation of man and wife Created a

against the poor-1:

-Tha WOOD

aid that in the Staines union aged couple
were not separated, but were allowed a room to themselves

with a fire in it, where they might live comfortably.
Mr. WAKLEY quoted a correspondence respecting the
Uxbridge union, where the board of guardians had refused
to sick paupers the diet ordered for them by the medical
attendant. In gaols the medical officers had always absolute

power in this respect.
Mr. DARBY said that under the old poor-law the order of
the medical attendant must be confirmed. I

the ar

ordered were withheld there was an appeal to a magistrat

D there was still,

Lord Howicx said that no board of guardians would
refuse to attend to the orders of a medical attendant without
strong and just grounds. It might happen that a man pro-
fessing a medical education might also possess an anxiety to
acquire a low and despicable popularity, and might be capa-

•
IZ7
ble of abusing a trust reposed in him. r If the board of guar-
dians suspected a medical officer of an attempt to set aside
the regular system of relief, they would be quite right to set
aside his orders. He could scarcely credit it to be a fact, so
discreditable to the gentlemen of England, as that a board
of guardians would refuse articles really necessary when or-

dcred by

medical man

Some discussion followed, in the course of which General
)HNSON declared, that it was with great pain he had heard

ay nig

3110 TE contended for the propriety of a check, on the
he guardians, over the medical attendant ; because,
se, the whole control of the union would rest with

he latter functionary

Mr. EASTHOPE contended that there was ample
ainst any improper interference on the part of the medical
idant, who might be discharged by the guardians ; but
s not right that he should be-limited in what he thought

proper to orde

Mr. W. ATTWOOD said, the lives of the paupers could not
be considered safe if the medical attendant was not to be en-
trusted with any discretion as to their diet.
After some further discussion, in the course of which some
warm observations passed between Mr. Ward and Mr. W.

Attwood, the house resolved itself into committee, and the
first clause, fixing the period for which the poor law commis-
sion should exist, was moved by Lord J. RUSSELL.

Mr. EASTROI'E thought five

years too long a period for

the prolongation of the commission, and moved as4 an amend-
ment, that it should extend only until 1843.

M GROTE was of opinion that the period should not 'be
)rt Jr than five years. He denied that the powers. of the
commissioners were arbitrary, although they certainly were
large, because the important duties they had to
quired that they should be so.

perform re-

Mr. WAKLEY said the hon. member for London ran no
risk of being classed amongst the mischievous demagogues of
the metropolis. The hon. member, however, had not ad-
vanced a single reason why it was necessary to renew the com-
mission for five years. in reference to what had fallen from
Lord Howick, the hon. member for Finsbury replied with
considerable spirit and effect, and contended that the noble
lord's contemptuous remarks were directed less against him-
self than his constituents. There were already 13,000 pa-
rishes incorporated into unions, and the hon. member con-
tended that as only 700 parishes remained, it could not be
necessary to continue the commission for five years.
Mr. HAWES said he had known the workhouses under the
old law, and he had a good deal of experience of union work-
houses, and he solemnly declared that under the old system
many of the workhouses were as bad as gaols, in which treat-
ment was experienced by the paupers which might justly be
called torture ; and yet hon. members now sought to destroy
the only system which had ever grappled with the enormous
evils of the old law. He denied that the present system
could be fairly designated harsh or oppressive in its opera-
tion, and said he was willing to share all the unpopularity
which might be incurred by the hon. member for the city of
London, for defending this bill, having neither wish nor de-
sire to sit in that house upon such popularity as might he ac-
quired by opposing this bill.
Mr. T. DIINCOMBE said the question really at issue was,
the extinction of the commission, or its perpetuity, and con-
tended that the law could be better administered without a
central board, by leaving its provisions to be carried out by
the boards of guardians throughout the country. The hon.
member then quoted instances of great cruelty which had
been perpetrated in union workhouses, and asserted that un-
der the old law no such cases had occurred.
Mr. DARBY supported the amendment.

Mr. HAMILTON contended that the poor law bill had failed
in one of its main objects, that of raising wages. On the
contrary, it might easily be shewn that its effect had been to
reduce them. He admitted that nothing could be worse than
the old system ; but it did not follow from that that they
should " go the whole hog" with this measure, and have
" the bill, the whole bill, and nothing but the bill." He
thought it might be necessary to continue the co, mission,
but he should vote for its continuance for the shorter period.
Sir G. STuicKLAND would also vote for the shorter period,
and was of opinion that, unless some material changes were
made, the present system could not continue to be the per-
manent law of the land.

Mr. VILLIERS supported the clause.
Mr. W. ATTWOOD supported the shorter period, in order
to give a more frequent power of revision to the House of
Commons. It was said that this was done indirectly, be-
cause in the estimates the question might be brought annually
under consideration ; but if so, there could surely be no ob-
jection to do that directly which was not deemed injudicious
when done indirectly.

Mr. MUNTZ thought it might be as well, in accordance
with the principle of voting the continuance of this commis-
sion for five years, to similarly vote the mutiny bill and the
estimates for five years.

On a division, the amendment was negatived by a majority
of 174 to 135.

Mr. H. HIDE proposed that, after the words " year
1846," the words " no longer" should be introduced.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said the introduction of the
words was useless, for the powers of the commissioners would
necessarily cease in 1846, and it would require a new act of
parliament to renew them.
Mr. H. HINDE declined to press his amendment, but re-
minded the house that the bank restriction act had been fre-
quently annually renewed " for ode year and no longer."
Colonel SIBTHORP said he should take the sense of the
house upon the reduction of the salaries of the commissioners
from £2OOO a-year to £lOOO, and their travelling expenses
from three guineas to one guinea a-day, which he thought
quite enough to keep them in " good working condition."
He should also move to reduce the salaries of the assistant-
commissioners from £7OO a-year to £3OO a-year.

On the motion that the clause should stand part of the bill,
Mr. J. FIELDEN moved that it be expunged.
The committee again divided, and the amendment was ne-
gatived by a majority of 163 to 49.
The clause was then agreed to, the chairman reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave to sit again.