The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1846-12-15 00:00:00

ing Board, inasmuch as the services of the police would
be wanted with regard to the duties of those boards, all
the gentlemen upon the Watch Committee should also be
made members, by which the services of the police would
be secured. There would still remain a separate Watch
Committee, and a separate. Lighting Committee. The
object was to divide as equally as possible the duties of
these different boards, though under the act they were
obliged to call them all one committee.
Mr. PARKER said Mr. Hornby had told the Council
they must all buckle to, and do their work. They were
all quite willing ; but the present fashion of amalgamation
and monopoly did not accord with his sentiments. He
colvd not agree with the principle that the chairman of
the Finance Cornmi tee and the Watch Ccmmittee were
to be everybody iu that Council. Why should the Health
Committee be merged in the Watch Committee ? and
why were all these sub-committees under one general
head? What advantage was there in the arrangement?
The Watch Committee was constituted differently from
any other committee; it was constituted under the Act of
Parliament, and why should the Health Committee be
merged in it? A difficul,y must be raised, he conceived,
on this point. He decidedly objected to so much busi-
ness being delegated to one body, for, in effect, it was
giving all the powers f this act to the Watch Committee,
and he quite agreed a ith Mr: Riggings that there was no
necessity for the amalgamation. He should certainly vote
against the Finance Committee and the Watch Committee
having this the whole power of the Council. [A MEM-
BER : And the patronage, too.] Yes, and the patronage,
too. He concluded by seconding the amendment moved
by Mr. Higgins.
The TOWN-CLERK stated there was a misapprehension
upon the subject. The Watch Committee was composed
of tour distinct committees. The Watch, Lighting,
Cleansing, and Fire-police Committees, were separate
committees. Although the same individuals were mem-
bers of these committees, that did not merge their duties
into one cornmitte—any more than merging the members
of the Health Committee in the Watch Committee would
make the Watch Committee perform the duties required
by this act. Unless this amalgamation took place. he
did not see how the public were to derive any benefit at
all from the act ; because the defies of the Lighting Com-
mittee, and all the collections must undoubtedly proceed
as they had, otherwise the public would be referred from
1 one board to another as before.

Mr. iiIGGINS enquired whether the Lighting Com-
mittee was a dispute') committee.
The TOWN-CLERK replied it was, and that it reported
monthly to the Council. The members of the Watch
Committee, were appointed by a distinct resolution flow
the members of Light, Cleansing, and Fire-police Com-
mittee.

Mr. HIGGINS had, then, been under a misappre
hension.

After a few words from Mr. PROCTER, the Council
divided, when there Eppeared

For the ainendrnent
Against it ..

The amendment•was consequently lost.
The MAYOR, then, said the council would now discuss
Mr. Tinne's suggestions, commencing with tin salary of
the engineer.
Mr. J. B. MORE agreed generally with the report,
and had great pleasure in supporting the committee in
their recommendations, with very trifling exceptions.
Ile was one of those who always advocated the principle
of sole and undivided duty. Whenever the council
appointed an officer, they should have the -whole attention
and power of that officer, because he was satisfied, from
long experience, that whenever the corporation had offi-
cers in their service, and allowed them to follow private
business, that at the moment they were most wanted
they were not to be found. It would, therefore, be wise
and economical to appoint a permanent engineer, and a
permanent medical officer
Mr. LACE observed, the engineer was not to do pri-
vate business.

Mr. 'MOORE would put both offides upon the same
footing. Before he referred to the medical officer he
would say a word upon a suggestion that had fallen from
Mr. Nice! respecting the engineer. He (Mr. Moore)
was inclined at first to agree with Mr. Tinne ; but when
he heard what Mr. Nicol said with reference to officers in
the service of her Majesty, he was satisfied that an en-
gineer could be obtained telly competent to perform the
rewired duties at the salary named. He would therefore
leave the amount in this case at £7OO. The medical of-
ficer must be a man of great experience, of great know-
ledge in fevers and other diseases affecting the health of
the town, and he must understand the ventilation of
tharches. chapels. schools, and so on. Where would
they find a man who would give his undivided attention
to these subjects ?—such a man as the Corporation would
trequire—for £3OO a-year? They would find great diffi-
culty in meeting with such a man. They might find some
young, and very talented, but inexperienced person who
-would undertake these duties; but when they came to
eearch for a man of preretical experience, a man who could
.speak upon these things from his own knowledge, they
-would find the salary, too small to secure him, and that it
was a salary unworthy the Corporation to offer. In the
particular item of ventilation, what had taken place at St.
-George's Hall ? There they had spent in fees only, when
he was upon the committee, paid to Dr. Reid, not less
than £4OO for opinions on ventilation which turned out to
be wholly erroneous—that he recommended the down
!draft, and it had to be changed to the upper draft.
Mr. J. B. Leorr said the Corporation made that
-charge.
Mr. MOORE : How much Dr. Reid had since received
for his opinions he was unable to say. At all events this
-ease proved that if the medical officer was to have under
\his care the ventilation of all the churches and chapels in
Liverpool, the sum of £3OO per annum was a very small
pittance. The most important part of the question, how.
ever, was that his services should belong exclusively to
the Corporation. flf be had his own patients to attend to,
the Corporation could never command him at any par-
ticular moment that he might be wanted. If he received
a stipend he would-know that be would be sure of it, bat
I his chief care would• be after his patients, of whom he
I /might not feel so sure. It was clear he could attend to
1 his own patients tattle first instance, and when he was
-wanted he would-have to be sought for. A very pertinent
and excellent question had been asked, sotto voce : whether
attendance upon the Council was to be included? (A
laugh.) He was unable to answer that question. Mr.
' Moore concluded bye moving, as an amendment, that the
medical officer be required to devote his whole time to
the service of the Corporation, and that his salary be
:4400 per annum.
Mr. READS seconded the amendment.
Mr. Allure was afraid that the amendment, if carried,
would greatly injure the effective operation of the act.
,The only chance of obtaining effectual aid in this depart-
,ment, was from some-medical man extensively engaged in
private practice. It was hardly to be expected to -get
such a man for less than £7OO a-year ; but even if one
-were obtained, the- Corporation would loose the advan-
tage of a knowledge of the causes of fever which existed
throughout the town'• knowledge which could only be ob-
tained by individual and extensive practice. In fact,
-they wanted from some man in large general practice, the
fruits and results of his daily experience—a knowledge of
facts •in various localities productive of particular disease,
resulting from his immediate knowledge. Such an officer
would be enabled to generalize his facts and his experi-
ence, whilst a young man, exclusively devoted to this ser-
vice, could not, because he could not have obtained the
necessary experience. The case of the engineer and that
of the medical officer were wholly different. One was
required to go into details, but the other was not.
Mr. PARKER asked whether the medical officer was to
be a surgeon or a physician?
The' Mayor.—Either.
Mr. LICDGSON said the ambject of the medical appoint-
, ment was one of considerable importance, upon which it
was not necessary to come •to a decision to-day. It struck
him as not being a very happy idea to have only one me-
dical officer to report upon the health of the whole town.
He was anxious that every oft cer appointed by the Corpo-
ration should be amply paid; but there was no rule
without and exception ; and with regard to the medical
oCcers, it was questionable whether it was not an
exception. It the medical Weer were confined to the
duty of reporting upon the sanatory state of the town,
1 his power of eking full and aeluable information would
be impaired. klis report would be exposed to observa-
tions from his medical brethren. and leave in doubt the
facts which he placed before the. Council. It struck him
that any man standing high in the profession would not
undertake the exclusive management of this duty ; and if
one were appointed in different parts of the town, with
the liberty of private practice, a report would then be ob-
tained which would be useful and desirable. No doubt, a
person •might be obtained who would take the proposed
salary, and consent to devote his attention exclusively to
these duties: but • the Council should take care lest they_
saddled the Corporation' with en olEcer whom they could
not afterwards get rid of. _ _

Mr. L.kne.explained thi.t the Council could not appoint more
than one medical otlicer,,and that they were obliged to appoint
one.
Mr. HooosoN,--Aresym obliged to appointone at all 7

Mr. Lacs.—,.Yes. -
Mr. S. Hotuftaaid it was clear the Council could not carry
out the act without having the most efficient .sery ices in this
most important department. The medical officer should stand
in the light of 4,consulting .piysician. The Council did not
want a medical Attu to devote the whole of hie time to carry
out the act ; they did not want him to go from street to street,
visiting the people as patients, &In order to ascertain whether
they hail disease in their houses. He agreed with Mr. Aikin
,that it would be impossible to obtain the services of.an efficient
',num under a salary of x6OO ,or 4100, if he were prevented
from exercising his ability in private practice. He (Mr.
ifoline) happened, too, to know, hiving had some experience
ventilation of public. buildings, that, as far as concerned
ventilation, in every instance where a medical man hid been
called in, it had proved a failure. (Hear.) He questioned very
much whether St. George's Hall would not have to be added to
the number. It was of impertance to obtain the services of a
gentleman of experience, great practice, and high standing,
becausehis opinions would be wanted .much more than hie
services as a distant or local visitcr. As to the engineer, no
doubt railways bad called a great amount of talent into exer-
cise in that .departmenti but whilst he advocated the employ-
ment of the most efficient services, and ample payment kw
them, there was a limit beyond which the Council, as trustees
and guardians<of the public purse, had no right to go. When
he recollected that Mr. Hartley, the Dock Surveyor, only
received £7OO on his first appointment to the situation he so
efficiently filled, and when he recollected that it was much
easier to raise a salary after they had tried the man to xlOOO
than to reduce it from ..*lOOO to .e7OO, he thought the recom-
mendation of the committee, for a beginning, was quite suffi-
cient to procure the services of a man of talent and efficiency,
and be hoped the Council would not exceed that sum.
Mr. RATH BONE supported the recommendation of the com-
mittee, with regard to the medical officer. Men in large
practice would consider it a great distinction to hold this ap- .
pointment. The salary proposed appeared to him too low.
500 per annum, he thought, would secure the services of the
first man in Liverpool.
Mr. Conei:a contended that the recommendations of the
committee, as to salary, were quite liberal, seeing that the
Council were not dealing with the corporate funds. They were
now dealing with the pockets of the burgesses.
Mr. DANSON seconded the amendment proposed by Mr.
Bramley Moore. He begged permission to O'er a few obser-
vations upon the general question of the sanatory condition of
large towns. (Cries of "Question,")
The NATOiI said that, although tide was scarcely ilEt ordor) j