The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-05-22 00:00:00

MEETING OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE.

The first meeting of the Dock Committee at which
reporters for the public press were present, was held in the
Dock Office, Custom-house, yesterday, at twelve o'clock.
The following members of the trust were present :—Mr.
Booth, Mr. Thos. Tobin, Mr. T. B. Barclay, Mr. William
Smith, Mr. Bulley, Mr. Seager, Mr. J. B. Yates, Mr. H.
Holmes, Mr. T. Holt, Mr. Gladstone, Mr. Dixon, Mr.
Martin, and Mr. Ripley. Mr. BOOTH took the chair in
the absence of Mr. Leathom, the official chairman, who,
with a deputation, is in London on the subject of the new
dock bill.
The proceedings of . the last meeting were confirmed, and
the payment of a number of accounts ordered, without ex-
citing any discussion.
The CHAIRMAN read a resolution of the Pilots Committee,
passed on the 18th instant, stating that a letter, signed by
the master pilot, was read, expressing his regret that the
Marine Surveyor should alter the position of any buoys with-
out giving public notice, and it was requested that the com-
mittee should require the Marine Surveyor to give the re-
quisite notice in all future cases.
The CHAIRMAN said he understood the buoy in question,
which Was stationed in the North Patch, had been removed
only a very short distance ; but the marine surveyor might
be called in. _ _

Mr. YATES, whilst the committee were waiting, would
take the opportunity of asking the chairman whether any
communication was intended to be made at this meeting
with reference to the dock bill now before parliament
The CHAIRMAN replied that he had no official communi-
cation to make. _ _

The MARINE SURVEYOR (Mr. Lord) was then called in,
and he stated that the buoy in question had been moved only
a hundred fathoms, in order to get it clear of the bank, and
that he had not thought it necessary to give public notice of
such a trivial alteration.

Mr. TOBIN said it would be advisable when any buoy was
either altered or removed to notify the change immediately to
the Pilots Committee.
The MARINE SURVEYOR replied that the Pilots' Com-
mittee were acquainted with the alteration, as he had
addressed a letter to them, and also to the agent of her Ma-
jesty's ships.
Mr. Tout N asked when this was done?
The MARINI.; SURVEYOR replied, the day after the change.
The CHAIRMAN.—We request you to give as much notice
as

you can of any alterations on any future occasion.
The MARINE SURVEYOR.—Yes, sir.
The CHAIRMAN asked the Marine Surveyor if he could
explain the cause of some damage done to a sixty-fathom
chain at the Beacon buoy (as we understood).
The MARINE SURVEYOR said he thought it must have
been cut on purpose.
Mr: TOBIN suggested that if it had been done from mis-
chief, it would he well to offer a reward for the discovery of
the offender.
The CHAIRMAN said there were already rewards offered
for the discovery of any party who damaged or stole the pro
perty of. the trust.
Mr. TOBIN was aware of that, but in the present case the
public had no knowledge of its occurrence.
The CHAIRMAN said, if it was the wish of the Committee
they might advertise a reward for the discovery of the chain.
The subject then dropped, with the understanding (as we
inferred, but from the manner of taking the decision of the
committee we cannot speak with certainty) that a reward of
.1.:10 should be offered.
A very long investigation then commenced into the con-
duct of the North Harbour master and the Prince's Dock
master, under the following circumstances. There was an
American ship, called the Victoria, in the dock, the owner-
ship of which was disputed by a Mr. Sharp. Capt. Lennox,
the commander, was preparing to take the vessel out of the
dock and go to sea, at high water on Monday. Mr. Sharp,
being aware of this, served a notice on the dock master, to
the effect that he was part owner of the ship, and that if the
dock master allowed her to leave the dock he would be held
responsible for any loss that might arise to Mr. Sharp. The
dock master consulted the solicitor to the trust, who advised
him that he had nothing to do with the question. In the mean
time forty or fifty men, in the interest of Mr. Sharp, had
collected on board the Dido and the Victoria, with the view
of preventing the latter from going to sea. The police, hav-
ing information that a disturbance was threatened, were on
the spot ; some commotion took place, and eventually the
pilot refused to take charge of the vessel, on the ground that
from the state of her sails, and it being then 10 minutes past
high water, it would be unsafe. Superintendent Macdonald,
who had the command of the police on the occasion, now
charged the harbour-master and the dock-master with wilfully
neglecting their duty, because they refused to interfere when
he requested them, and the dock-mascer, he alleged, was not
on the spot, as he ought to have been, when the Victoria was
prevented leaving the dock by the men in the Dido. The
superintendent, the harbour-master, the dock-master, the
master pilot, the pilot who was to have taken charge of the
vessel, and another pilot, were severally examined. In the
course of their examination, there appeared a material dis-
crepancy as to the time of the dock-master's presence at the
transaction, between the statements of Macdonald and those
of the others; and eventually the committee unanimously
came to the conclusion, that no blame whatever attached to
the officers of the dock, and that Superintendent Macdonald
was mistaken.

Mr. RIPLEY said the discrepancies as to time between the
statements of the witnesses in the complaint just heard, con-
vinced him that a clock was indispensably necessary at the
north end of Prince's Dock. Mistakes were perpetually
arising from the want of this public convenience.
The CHAIRMAN said the suggestion should receiveatten-
tion. The next business, he continued, referred to the com-
pensation claimed by the owners of the ship Tweed, during
the discussion of which the reporters must retire.
Mr. YATES, before that business came on, had a motion
to propose. lie had already asked the chairman whether he
was prepared to report to the committte the state of the dock
bill now pending before parliament, and had been told that
he (the chairman) knew nothing about it.
The Cu AlRMAN.—Nothing officially, I said.
Mr. YATES.—Yes, nothing officially. All the informa-
tion, then, which he (Mr. Yates) was able to glean was from
the newspapers ; and he observed from them that an inquiry
was going on on three most important topics, one especially
with regard to the warehouse question, another to a clause
or clauses affecting the constitution of this committee, and a
third upon the subject of the rates payable by ships not
using the docks. These were matters of such vital impor-
tance, that it struck him the committee ought to be made
better informed than they were as to the wishes of the rate-
payers, who were mainly interested In them, affecting, as they
did, most vitally, the interests and the trade of the port. It
appeared to him that there ought to be a meeting of the rate-
payers called immediately, for the purpose of discussing these
questions. With regard to the payment of dock rates by
strangers, he had frequently, both in the committee and else-
where, expressed a strong opinion that it was unjust and im-
proper that ships not using the docks should be compelled
to pay any rates except those for lights, dredging, and so on.
His impression was that this claim ought at once to be thrown
overboard by the committee. As to the question of ware-
houses on the dock quays, he believed if the sense of the rate-
payers was taken, two-thirds or three-fourths of teem would
be found opposed to them upon the present plan.
The CHAIRMAN begged to say that the question of the
sense of the ratepayers could not be discussed in the com-
mittee. Did Mr. Yates mean to propose that the committee
should call a meeting of the ratepayers ?
Mr. YA.TES did most expressly and especially mean to pro-
pose that the committee should call the leypayers together,
and he would add, that it was their express and bounden duty
to convene that meeting.
The CHAIRMAN thought the committee had no such
power given them in the act of Parliament.
Mr. YATES replied that on the occasion of the last bill the
committee then called a meeting of the ley-payers, whether
they had power or not.
The SECRETARY.—You have no such power.
Mr. YATES.—You must know very well that the Dock
Committee did summon a meeting of the rate-payers about
three years ago.
The SECRETARY repeated that that meeting was not called
by the Dock Committee.
Mr. BARCLAY (we understood) said the meeting alluded
to was called at the request of the several public associations,
and that the Dock Committee acquiesced and joined in the
request.
Mr. TOBIN said that, however desirable he might consider
a public meeting of rate-payers, he could not for a moment
bring himself to suppose that it was the duty of the Dock
Committee to call one. The power lay in another body.
Mr. YATES was sorry to differ from Mr. Tobin. He con-
ceived this to be the proper body, more especially on ac-
count of the relation in which it stood to the public ; there-
fore he was determined to bring the resolution forward whe-
ther any one voted with him or not. It was most inconsis-
tent for the Dock Committee to go to an enormous expense
in Parliament, upon points vitally affecting the interests of
the port, without calling for the opinion of the.rate-payers
whom they represented. He should, therefore, move, "That
this committee call forthwith a general meeting of rate-
payers, for the purpose of laying before them the heads of
the Dock Bill now before Parliament, and taking into consi-
deration the important clauses now under discussion." He
was induced to bring this motion forward, because, up to
this day, the committee had not had a copy of the bill laid
before them, nor even of the heads of the bill ; because the
several vital clauses of the bill had not been submitted at any
time ; and because, up to this hour, the committee had never
been informed, in that room, within what period the pro-
posed warehouses should be erected, or what expense it
was proposed should .be incurred—a matter affecting the
property of all the ratepayers. They had, indeed, heard out
of doors how the blanks left in the clauses had been filled up.
They had heard, according to common rumour, that some of
the warehouses were to be built in two years, and all of them
in five years, but they had heard nothing officially. It was
high time that the members of the committee should know
what they were about, and whether they were indulging in
these very serious expenses contrary to the wishes of the
ratepayers, or with their assent.
Mr. TOBIN should be very glad if the ratepayers them-
selves would hold a meeting, but he could not approve of this-
committee convening one.
Mr. GLADSTONE must certainly confess his surprise that
the bill, involving as it did, most momentous interests,
should have advanced so far, without the committee having
received up to this period either explanation or report of its pro-
gress from the deputation in London, who were prosecuting
it. He would not say what he thought of this mode of pro,-
ceeding ; but he would say
gular. that it was, at least, highly irre-

Mr. TOBIN thought that of the members of this committee
more ought to be appointed by the ratepayers than there
were.

Mr. YATES repeated, that all the information he was in
possession of, respecting the present state of the bill, bad
been collected from the public papers. He would ask 'any
man of common sense, whether it was right for the members
of the committee to be compelled to obtain their knowledge
from such a source upon a bill of such magnitude and im-
portance ? The motion not having been seconded he should
withdraw it, but he still retained his opinions.
Mr. RIPLEY said Mr. Yates was under a mistake when he
said the bill had notbeen read before the committee. The heads
of it at least were read before the committee. Mr. Yates had
expressed an opinion that if the sentiments of the rate-payers
were taken, three-fourths of them would be found opposed
to the building of warehouses on the quays. Now so far from
believing that estimate correct, he (Mr. Ripley) believed that
three-fourths of the rate-payers would be in favour of the
building of warehouses on the quays.
Mr. YATES.—That was matter of opinion, the
like aekceureancyacot.f
which might be readily ascertained ; but to proceed with the
bill without having ascertained that opinion, w
ing Hamlet with the part of Hamlet omitted. The blanks
were not filled up in this committee, but the whole matter
was left to the deputation. If the erection of the warehouses
were spread over a period of fifteen years, it might do no
harm to the owners of existing property of that description,
but the haste to build them in five years was calculated to do
great. injury.
The SECRETARY having referred to the minutes of the pro-
ceedings of the committee said, that on the 23d January the
bill was submitted to the committee and read. -Every clause
was read. Mr. Yates was present. The clauses which it was
thought required alterations were read a second time.
Mr. YATES admitted the clauses were read in brief.
The SECRETARY.—The most important were read in full.
Mr. YATES repeated that he withdrew his motion.
The reporters then retired, and the committee proceeded
the consideration of the question already stated.

Commissions sinned by the Lord Lieutenant of the County
Palatine of Lancaster.-2nd Regiment of the Duke of Lan-
caster's Own Militia—Thomas Blades Molynetut, Gent. to
he Lieutenant ; Oct. 21. Robert Johnson, the younger,
Gent. to be ditto ; Feb. 25.