The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-07-12 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD, TUESDAY, JULY 12, 1853.

succeeded was, he believed, the most profligate govern-
ment that ever existed.
Mr. JOHN LOCKETT, whose appearance was the signal
for a perfect uproar of cheers, groans, hisses, and other
noisy demonstrations, said the great object in a vast com-
mercial town, like Liverpool, was to have, as representa-
tives, men who knew all its local and commercial wants.
Such a man, in every respect, was the gentlemen he
would with pleasure propose as a representative of Liver-
pool, Mr. John Bramley-Moore. (Cheers and groans.)
He had been indefatigable—(hear, hear)—in attending to
the wants and wishes of Lievrpool, and in every respect
he had ably fulfilled his duty in guarding and promoting
the interests of this great seaport—(cheers and groans)
—both as Chairman of the Dock Trust and as Mayor.
Mr. JAMES LOGAN seconded the nomination.
The Hon. HENRY THOMAS LIDDELL, on coming for-
ward to address the electors, was received in the most
enthusiastic manner, his supporters cheering vociferously,
and it was several minutes before he could obtain even a
partial hearing. Of the proceedings of those parties
to whom they owed the election, he would say no
more about them, than that they are likely to fail in every
one of their aims. (Loud cheering, and hisses from the
opposite side of the hustings.) " They instituted pro-
ceedings," said Mr. Liddell, "which, ushered in by the
most swelling threats, have dwindled down to the most
insignificant conclusions. If it was intended by the pro-
moters of the petition to cast obloquy upon the electors
of Liverpool, the attempt has signally failed—(cheers
from the Tories, and ironical laughter from the Whig-
Radicals)—and although it may be true that, by the
straining of a very severe law, the parliamentary com-
mittee came to a decision, in my mind, inconsistent with
justice—(opposition cries of " Oh !" laughter, and counter
cheers)—which unseated your late members, I am con-
vinced that a spirit is roused in this great town which will
speedily repair the injury, and return to parliament two
gentlemen of similar principles to those of whose services
you have been deprived." (Cheers and hisses.) He next
alluded to two topics mentioned by the gentleman who
had very ably seconded the nomination of his friend Mr.
Horsfall. One of those topics was the bill for popular
education, and the other was the new reform bill with
which this country was threatened in the course of another
session. (The hon. gentleman was here interrupted by
laughter from his uproarious opponents, and an ex-
clamation of " Threatened. eh !") With regard to
the former, be looked forward to it with very great
hopes, believing that Lord John Russell would not rise
in the House of Commous to propose any measure of
popular education which might be inconsistent with the
religious principles of the community at large. In the
matter of parliamentary reform, he hoped the new mea-
sure would respect the rights of freemen, and resemble
the reform bill of 1830 in this, that it would attempt to
disfranchise no set of Englishmen. The vote by ballot he
would not support; but, with regard to the franchise, he
did not know that the £lO qualification was the best.
Mr. THOMAS BOLTON asked whether, in 1829, when a
bill was brought in for the repeal of the Corporation and
Test Acts, Mr. Liddell voted for or against that bill ?
Mr. LIDDELL stated that he voted in favour of the bill.
(Cheers.)
Mr. BOLTON asked whether, when, in 1829, a bill was
introduced for Catholic emancipation, he voted for or
against such a bill ?
Mr. LIDDELL said he supported that bill, and exulted
in the recollection to the present day. (Cheers.)
Mr. BOLTON.—In 1831, did you support the Reform
Bill ?

Mr. LIDDELL.—For my good fortune, on that occasion
I had not the honour of a seat in parliament (loud cheers).
Mr. BOLTON.—In 1834, when the bill for a reform in
the municipal corporations was brought in, did you vote
for or against it ?
Mr. LIDDELL.—It will save the excellent questioner
some trouble if I inform him that I was not returned to
parliament again till 1837. (Cheers and hisses.)
Mr. 13ouros..—After 1837, when Mr. Villiers brought
in several motions for the repeal of the corn laws, did you
support him on those occasions ?
Mr. LIDDELL.—I had the honour of following the ex-
ample of Sir Robert Peel, and I opposed all those motions.
(Cheers, and hisses and laughter from the Liberal side.)
Mr. BOLTON.—In 1846, did you vote for or against the
bill for the repeal of the corn laws ?
Mr. LIDDELL.—On that occasion I acted from what I
considered my duty to my constituents, and I did not
wheel round with Sir Robert Peel. (Cheers and hisses.)
Mr. BOLTON.—You alluded to the prosperity of the
country at the present time. Do not you think the lower
prices of corn have contributed to that prosperity ? (" No,
no," from the Tory side.) And would it have been as
great had the corn laws been in existence ?
Mr. BIGH Am.—Let him answer that.

Mr. LIDDELL thought that the prosperity now was more
ascribable to the influx of Australian and Californian gold
—(hear, hear)—which was much more advantageous to
the interests of the community than the very low prices
at which wheat was sold some years after the repeal of the
corn laws. (Hisses, and a voice : " I think your friends
are ashamed of you now.")
Mr. T. B. Mask-ALL here addressed the electors, and,
in the course of his speech, remarked :—I have been told
by the Liverpool Times of this morning, that I had done
an injustice to one of my fellow-candidates. Now, if it
was made evident that what I have quoted from a news-
paper paragraph be false, I will publicly, freely, and
heartily retract it (applause); and then, I hope, no one
will accuse me of doing him injustice. I will read the
quotation in juxtaposition with the speech of Sir Erskine
Perry at Bombay, on which the editorial article was
founded. [Mr. Horsfall here read the following extract
from the Madras Native Herald of the 20th April :
England will learn with amazement, that a British judge and.
Christian statesman shamefully misused this golden opportu-
nity, by virtually assuring those interesting oung men that it
was their bounden duty, until they reached the years of majo-
rity, to continue in idolatry.

Mr. Horsfall then went to say that the extract was a fair
inference from Sir Erskine's own words :
I will not hesitate to express the opinion which I have formed
as a judge. as a citizen, and as a father, for in all these charac-
ters the question has been before me, that the government
system, with total absence of religious instruction, is not only
the most expedient system in this country, but is the only one
that accords with my sense of what is right. * * * * Why
do you not exhort those reverend gentlemen to imitate the
system of the government, and to confine themselves to intel-
lectual and moral training, so long as tee child is immature
and in ants pupidari, and only then address themselves to
religious instruction, when the field becomes an open one, and
the youth is emancipated from the parental authority?
Sir Erskine Perry would have an opportunity of replying.
He alluded to the India Bill, upon which much had been
said. The Liverpool Times, referring to some observa-
tions in his speech at the Amphitheatre, said he had
alluded to " coalition measures." Now he was not going
to stand up for coalitions, whether by Lord Derby, John
Bright, or Richard Cobden. (Hear, hear.) With regard
to the India Bill, he was not going to say whether the
government was right in the principles it maintained, nor
whether Lord Aberdeen was right in pushing the bill for-
wards or Lord Derby in wishing to restrain it. (Hear,
hear.) In consequence of his recent absence from home,
he really did not fully comprehend the details of the mea-
sure ; but he had the greatest confidence in some of the
members of the present government, and there were
others in whom he had no confidence at all ; but if there
was one member of the administration in whom he had
no confidence, it was Sir Charles Wood, President
of the Board of Control. It might naturally be ex-
pected that he should say something about the last
Budget. (Hear.) It would be inconsistent in him
if, after having advocated the reduction of the tea duties,
and the abolition of the duties on soap, be were to
do otherwise than express his belief that it was the very
best budget he had ever heard. (A voice : " They don't
like that on your side.") He could not help it whether
they liked it or disliked it—he would always give an ex-
pression of his honest convictions. (Hear, hear.) If he
were returned to parliament, he would advocate the com-
mercial principles to which he had alluded; and, without
meaning any unkindness to those friends who differed from
him, he would always advocate those Protestant principles
he had ever advocated.
Mr. BOLTON then asked Mr. Horsfall if he would pro-
mote free trade ?
Mr. HORSFALL.—I will; I consider it the established
principle of the country.
QUESTION : Are you a Free-trader.
Mr. HORSFALL : I am a Free-trader.
QUESTION Will the bill to be brought into Parlia-
ment do away with the monopoly of the Town Dues ?
Mr. HORSFALL : No, decidedly not.
QUESTION : Will you allow a fair trade as well as free
trade ?
Mr. HORSFALL : I will ; I am an advocate not only for
Fair-trade but Free-trade.
Mr. BIGHAM : Supposing an attack—(interruption and
great confusion.)
Mr. EDMUND MOLYNEUX Ask your question and be
done with it.

Mr. BIGHAM : r will not be dictated to by you.—(To
Mr. Horsfall). Supposing an attack be made upon our
Town Dues, let the attack come from whom it may, sup-
posing you be elected, will you defend, as our advocate
and representative, our right to those Town Dues ?
Mr. HousFALL : To the very last. _

The Hon. Sir ERSKINE PERRY, on presenting himself,
was received with great cheering by his friends, followed
by hooting from his opponents. He said, addressing the
latter—Look at your party. We gave them a fair hearing.
They don't dare to hear us (applause). Silence having
at length been in some degree restored, Sir Erskine
proceeded to deliver a lengthened speech, in the course
of which he distinguished the party to which he be-
longed as the enlightened party, and professed himself
a supporter of the principles that have given the working
classes the big loaf. (Cheers.) One passage in the speech
of Sir Erskine we give entire. I had the good fortune to
hear one gentleman. I believe he is by far the ablest
man of the Tory party in this town, and he certainly made
the very best speech we have heard made to-day,--I
allude to Mr. Tobin. I heard every word of his speech,
and I will take the liberty to grapple with the best man
of your party, and show that he is completely ignorant of
the great questions that not only affect the prosperity of
this country, but the prosperity of Liverpool itself. I will
prove to you from his own mouth he does not know what
even the commercial interests require. I must say I am
astonished, coming to a place like Liverpool, the first
city of the world, to hear the first orator of the Tory party
betray such gross ignorance of what the true interests of
Liverpool are. (Applause.) Gentlemen, he has told us
that the two great political questions now stirring the
public mind are national education and parliamentary
reform. They are two very great questions, and I will
give you my opinion upon them presently, but they are
not questions now before the public. There is a great
question now before the public, the greatest question this
session,—a question affecting the duty of England and
the prosperity of Liverpool more than any one ques-
tion which has come before parliament. The opposite
party said nothing on it, except the hon. gentleman for-
merly turned out for South Shields. (Loud laughter.)
Gentlemen, the greatest question of the present day
affecti, g Liverpool is the extension of our commerce
to our British possessions in the East. (Hear, hear.)
I
flagsg t
otfo
want to ask those practical men opposite, those Toryintelli-
gent
thes
kt
betweenhe
merchants
Exchange.
who
sclaimse
and t
loud h
o rule
cheering..)
utgh.e)
m i n wLh
Liverpool,
rp modeoo i theyßo m proposehay,
aud tcu
o a
lecxt
tetna d
then
want
commerce ?
There's a practical point for you. (Laughter and an-
Tplhaueyseh.)aveTnhoeyt havethou
thought
tt thought
it
u. p oTnh tyh ed
osuu,btj
ke cutoawt. all.
I
ask them now. Gentlemen, I see around me now, no
doubt, a great many sbippers and exporters. We send

many piece goods from this port to India. We send also
some woollens. I won't give you the quantities or the
values. (A laugh.) I know them perfectly. You don't,
some of you. Now, let me ask one question of the ablest
man on the other side :—what is the reason you export so
few woollens to India ? What is the reason ? Now then,
practical men, give me an answer. (A pause.) No reply.
(Laughter.) I tell you, gentlemen, you don't know any-
thing about that great question of commerce with India.
Perhaps you think the reason is the country is so hot they
don't require woollens, [A Voice : " No, because it
won't pay."] Is that the reason ? I will tell you that I
have lived in that country eleven years and eight months.
There is no one article of British manufactures which
would be received so acceptably by the 150 millions of
India as the woollens of Yorkshire and Scotland. And,
gentlemen, having stated to you a fact, I will now supply
to you a piece of information that the old Tories of Liver-
pool are not able to furnish. The way to make the 150
millions better consumers of the manufactures of England
than they are at present is to apply the same rule to them
that has made the working people of this country con-
sumers also. Gentlemen, it is by applying good govern-
ment to them,—by making them more intelligent,—by
giving them better wages.—by enabling them to produce
cotton in larger quantities than at present,—in fact, by
alleviating their position in the scale of society. (Cheers.)
By these means we can make them what. they are not at
present, equal to our brethren on the other side of the
water, in America, who are now, as you know, our best
customers at this port. (Applause.) Gentlemen, I stand
here for two intelligible principles." In another part of
his speech, he said :—" I will tell you as to what these
Tories would Lave done, had they been able to give a vote
on all questions hitherto, and also give some information
as to how they will on all questions hereafter. Gentlemen,
if they had been in parliament for the last forty years,
they would have opposed every one of those liberal mea-
sures which have been carried. (Cheers.) And allow me
to assure you that the battle of free trade has still to be
fought in Liverpool, notwithstanding their acceptances.
I regard their acceptances as no better than the accept-
ances of a dishonoured bill. I tell you that, on every
great liberal question which has hereafter to be brought
before the Commons House of Parliament, my opponents,
if true to their principles, will be found fighting with the
old Tory party." After stating that he would join all
true Liberals throughout the British Isles to secure the
triumph of Protestant principles, he deprecated the intro-
duction into the contest by Mr. Horsfall of a religious
cry, and defended himself from the aspersions of the
Madras party by affirming that he belonged to that section
of the Liberals who thought that all religious instruction
should be left to the spontaneous efforts of clergymen of
the different persuasions. lam surprised," continued
Sir Erskine, "at the ignorance—(laughter, and cries of
" Oh ! Oh !")—at the total incapacity to understand a
plain proposition that distinguishes that gentleman—( hear,
hear)—who thus brought forward my name, when he had
my very speech before him. (Cheers). I was talking in
India, and not in the British isles. (Hear, hear.) I
asserted this proposition, and it is applicable to England
just as much as to India. It is a perfectly true proposi-
tion ; and every religious man who hears me, of whatever
sect, will assent to it. The proposition, sir, is this, that
it is gross tyranny on the part of the state to interfere
between a parent and his child. (Loud cheering, and cries
of " Bravo.") That was my statement. Don't you all
approve of it ?" kCheers, and cries of "We do.") In
reply to Mr. Robert Neilson, Sir Erskine said that he had
no objection to the ballot ; and that he was prepared to
extend the franchise to all the intelligence of the kingdom.
Mr. NEILSON.—I understood you to say also that you
would leave the religious education of the people to the
different denominations of clergymen: are you prepared
to vote for the grant to Maynooth ?
Sir ERSKINE PERRY.-1 am asked whether I will
pledge myself to vote against the continuance of the grant
to Maynooth ?
Mr. NuresoN.—Not at all; I ask you a simple ques-
tion,—are you prepared to vote for the Maynooth grant or
not
Sir ERSKINE PERRY.—I am asked whether I am pre-
pared to vote for the grant to Maynooth.
Mr. NEILSON.—The maintenance of the present grant.
Sir ERSKINE PERRY.—Why, the gentleman does not
understand his own question. Gentlemen, the hon. sup-
porter of the tory party is so ignorant of the constitution
of the realm that he does not know how to put his ques-
tion. (Cries of "oh ! oh !" and laughter.)
The MAYOR (to Sir ERSKINE PERRY.)—Be kind
enough, sir, to restrict yourself to answering the question.
I Sir ERSKINE PERRY.—SO I will, Mr. Mayor. lam
eoing to show that the question was unintelligible. The
Maynooth grant does not require a vote in parliament,
since it has been established by law. (Cheers and hisses.)
Now, put the proper question, and I will answer it.
Mr. THOS. BOLD here stepped forward and said : Then
I will put the question. If a measure is brought into the
House of Commons for the repeal of the grant, will you
support the measure or will you oppose it
Sir ERSKINE PERRY.—NOW, Mr. Mayor, we have got
the proper question : Will I or will I not vote for the con-
tinuance of the grant to May nooth ? I have told you
before, I will make no pledge on public questions what-
ever. But I will tell you what my opinion is. With the
information that is already before the public, my opinion
is in favour of the continuance of the grant. An inquiry
is now on foot to ascertain whether that grant is injurious
to our constitutional liberties, and I reserve my judgment
on the subject till I hear the result of that inquiry.—
(Cheers and hisses.)
Mr. JOHN BRAMLEY-MOORE rose amidst a perfect
storm of hisses and. groans, expressed by his former
friends. It was some time—and then not without the
interference of his worship the Mayor—before• there was
the slightest cessation in the demonstrations with which
Mr. Moore was received. He said, that in presenting
himself to the electors of Liverpool, he should be guilty
of an act of very great presumption, if he had ventured to
come forward of his own spontaneous accord ; but when
be had the honour of receiving a requisition of—not only
a requisition of the C onservative electors, but also, he
might say, of a very large body in the town—he could not
resist such a requisition. And having come forward in
compliance with such a requisition—a requisition which
had been most urgently pressed upon him—he should be
acquitted, be was sure, of all presumption in the eyes of
those who heard him. (Cheers, mingled with groans and
hisses.) And if he had hesitated to acquiesce in the re-
quisition he should have been wanting in his duty. It
was not his intention to have trespassed thus upon their
time that day ; but, when he heard of the slanderous
attacks which had been made upon him, he came there
as an Englishman—(cheers)—to vindicate his character,
if necessary, on the present occasion, and to assert those
principles which he had always avowed, and with which
the people of Liverpool must be familiar. He coincided
almost entirely with the honourable gentleman, Mr.
Horsfall, as to his general principles and views of com-
mercial policy ; he was, in fact, a Conservative free-trader,
desirous to obtain, as far as possible, with other nations,
a free interchange of commodities. (Partial cheering.)
If those were Radical opinions— then he was himself a
Radical. (" oTi;" and hisses.) But the real question
at issue on tv4t occasion was, whether he should be re-
turned to be their representative in parliament on con-
servative principles, and on those alone. (Hear, hear.)
Among the other topics which had been alluded to was
that of the freemen. He did not seek to catch a freeman's
vote by any clap-trap; but he only had this to say, that
he had attended day by day before the committee of the
House of Commons, for the purpose of, as far as possible,
defending their rights, and he had not only done that, but
had subscribed money for the same purpose. (Oh !)
One word he asked on that subject. A freeman's rights
were derived from charters granted at an early period of
the town's history—charters as ancient as the corporation
of Liverpool—ancient as the most ancient titles in the king-
dom ; and so long ashe exercised thatright properly, it was
Improper to deprive him of it, and it could not be forfeited.
Mr. Moore concluded :—Mr. Mayor, I have now, in
conclusion, to thank those gentlemen who listened to me.
As for those who refused to hear what I have had to say,
I owe them no thanks, and have none to tender. [Cheer-
ing from Mr. Moore's friends, answered by hisses and
groans from Messrs. Liddell and Horsfall's supporters.]
I have now to say, in answer to all that may be said here
to the contrary, that I shall go to the poll,—(cheers,)--
and not only that, but I will remain and keep it open
until four o'clock,—(great cheering, and hisses from the
Tory side ;)—that I will afford to the people of Liverpool
au opportunity of showing whether they will exercise
that free and independent choice which has now brought
me before you, or whether they will exercise it in another
direction.

The MAYOR then proceeded to take the show of hands.
The show in favour of Mr. Liddell was chiefly from the
immediate front of the Tory side of the hustings. That
in favour of Mr. Horsfall was much more numerous.
The show in favour of Sir Erskine Perry was on the
Liberal side of the hustings ; and that on behalf of Mr.
Moore was numerous on the same side.
The MAYOR declared the show of hands in favour of T.
B. Horsfall, Esq., and Sir Erskine Perry. (Cheers.)
Mr. T. Moss, on the part of Mr. Liddell, demanded a
poll. A. poll was also demanded for Mr. Bramley-Moore.
Sir E. PERRY then came forward, and said, he had very
great pleasure in proposing a vote of thanks to their worthy
Mayor, for his conduct during the day, and he could as-
sure both the Mayor and the people of Liverpool, that
without wishing to dictate who should be his colleague, as
other people had done, he should have great pleasure in
fulfilling the duties of representative with any colleague
they chose to send with him. (Cheers and laughter.)
The Hon. Mr. LIDDELL said he had great pleasure in
seconding the vote of thanks, though he thought the duty
fell to the lot of the first local gentleman proposed. (Oh,
oh ! and cheers.)
The MAYOR briefly acknowledged the compliment,
and after three cheers for the candidates, the proceedings
terminated.
Shortly afterwards Messrs. Liddell and Horsfall ad-
dressed their friends at the Adelphi Hotel ; Sir Erskine
Perry addressed his friends in Clayton-square. Mr.
LIDDELL said :—" I ask you, on the other hand, to direct
your attention to the questions which were put to Sir
Erskine Perry—(hisses)—and I ask you to pronounce,
upon your own judgment, whether the answers to those
questions were intelligible or not—(cries of " No !")
whether he gave a single plain answer to a plain question,
or whether he did not resort to an evasion and a speech ?"
(Hear.)—Mr. HORSFALL said :—We have this day met
our antagonist, Sir Erskine Perry, and I have charged
him face to face with endeavouring to give to your chil-
dren, ye wives of Liverpool, an education devoid of reli-
gion, and to give them only a paltry secular education.
(Hear, hear, and hisses.) How has he met the charge ?
I did not hear him distinctly, and I should be sorry to
wrong him, but I understood him to say that we had
trumped up an old charge against him. (Hisses.) I have
the Madras Native Herald containing this speech, and
the date of that paper is no antiquated date. It is dated
the 30th of April, 1853. Now, gentlemen, I hope you
will read Sir Erskine Perry's defence, and, if you are
satisfied with it, vote for him. (Cries of " No, no !")
If, on the other hand, you prefer the honest, straightfor-
ward character of Mr. Liddell, I ask you, gentlemen, not
to stultify yourselves by sending Sir Erskine Perry and
myself to parliament, but give me a colleague with whom
I can cordially act. (Cheers.) Do not send to parlia-
ment one man to inculcate the propriety of giving your
children religious instruction, and another who will en-
deavour to content them with merely a secular one.
(Hisses, and cries of " No !")—Afterwards Mr. J. B.
LLOYD and Mr. J.Alitiss HOLME addressed the meeting,
the latter gentleman predicting that Messrs. Liddell and
Horsfall would be triumphantly returned on the morrow.
At the clAyten,oquare gatheruag guldne rcrry, is