The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-03-13 00:00:00

Mr. WRIGHT was not going to. oppose the resolution; but
Mr. Sheil having spoken of place and family influence being
used, he (Mr. Wrignt) begged to assure him that be had
neither directly nor indirectly disgraced himself by even
thinking of family influence when he was performing a pub-
lic duty. (Hear, hear.) He was sure that Mr. Currie, who
was in the council at the time he was, would say that he had
ever attempted to do his duty without fear, favour, or affec-
tion in any way. (Hear.)
Mr. SBEIL beg distinctly to say, that he had made no per-
sonal allusion to any gentleman except one ; and he should
not shrink from it, as he witnessed the proceeding, and
at the time thought it -a great violation of every right prin-
ciple. He should never hesitate to bring it forward as a
proof of the necessity of corporate reform, whenever he had
an opportunity. (Cheers.)
Mr. HORSFALL enquired whether the words " this great
act of equal justice " in this resolution, applied to the present
bill?

Mr. BOLTON replied that they were connected with the
preceding resolutions, and meant that equal justice should be
extended to Ireland.
Mr. HARDY said there had not been a resolution passed
or proposed in which he had not heartily concurred. He
had heard the sentiments of every gentleman who had sup-
ported the resolutions, likewise of those who opposed them.
Every gentleman who had opposed the resolutions, had taken
up the question on the ground that it would affect the Pro-
testant interests of the country ; but he did not see how it
could affect them, seeing that it was a bill clearly for the mu-
nicipal government of the corporate towns of Ireland. Mr.
Horsfall, who was the great oracle of the opposition, had
mentioned a clause in it, which would disfranchise great num-
bers of the present freemen, and that the great arch-dema-
gogue might be elected the perpetual mayor of Dublin. He
(Mr. Hardy) should like to know what clause in the bill
that was— ,
The MAYOR.—Mr. Horsfall said there was such a clause
in the bill by which they might do so, but they would not
necessarily do so. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HARDY repeated his assertion, and called upon Mr.
Horsfall for his authority for the statement. In conclusion
he cordially coincided and agreed with every resolution
-hitherto put forward, and he hoped they would have their
due effect upon the House of Lords, for he thought they
would not for the fourth time kick the bill out sans cere-
monie, after the immense majority by which it had passed
the lower house. (Cheers.)
Mr. HORSPALL said his authority for the statement was
Professor Butt (cheers,) and he would say further, that
there was nothing in the English bill to prevent there being
a perpetual mayor of Liverpool.
The MAYOR.—OnIy this one simple thing, that the mayor
has to be re-elected each year ; and I apprehend Mr.
O'Connell or any other person must be treated precisely in
the same way. (Hear.)
Mr. JOHN OWEN strongly objected to the bill, for this
reason that O'Connell had said, " Give me but this bill and
I ask no more," a statement which was sufficient to fill
every true Protestant with alarm. He further objected to
it, because it would deprive-the Protestant gentry, who com-
prised nearly all the intelligence and wealth of the country,
of all participation in local government; and also :because
it would give the ascendancy to Popery in almost every re-
spect. (Cheers,) He called upon the meeting to oppose it.
A Man.—lf the Protestants pf Ireland want the assistance
of the Protestants of England, it is not for military aid, as in
tory times.
The MAYOR then put the motion, and declared it to have
been carried by a large majority.
Mr. HUGH HORNET* rose, amidst general cheering, to
propose the next resolution, the substance of which was that
Ireland being an integral part of the British dominions, was
entitled to participate in all the free institutions of this coun-
try, and that consequently the meeting heartily approved of
the measure which was to give them the benefit of popular
municipalities. He regretted exceedingly that this resolu-
tion had not been confided to the hands of some gentleman
who had paid greater attention to the subject than he had
been able to give ; but the object in view was in its inten-
tion so just and reasonable, the proposition involved in
the resolution was so clear and undeniable, that it was
unnecessary for him to occupy the time of the meeting
at any great length in support of it. All they asked upon
the part of their Irish fellow-subjects was, that they should
be put in possession of those same civil institutions which
we ourselves enjoyed. (Hear.) It was stated in this reso-
lution that Ireland was an integral part of the British domi-
nions : yes, she was as much an integral part of the British
dominions as the county of Lancaster, and it would be as
unjust to deprive the inhabitants of Ireland of the right and
privilege of municipal institutions, as it would be to exclude
the county of Lancaster from the operation of the law.—
(Cheers.) He should not advert to the argument introduced
improperly he thought, and unwisely he was sure, by which
it had been attempted to shew the effect which this measure
would have upon the different religious persuasions. (Hear.)
This was not a religious question. It was a question which
regarded the indefeasible right that every British subject
had to select the person who was to manage his own local
concerns. (Hear, hear.) He would, however, observe this
much, that if the Roman Catholics of Ireland exceeded
in numbers and influence the Protestants, then he thought
that it was only fair and just that that greater number
and that more extended influence should have the manage-
ment of their own local affairs. (Cheers.) But there had
been another argument used, not in that room, he admitted,
but by the parties who opposed the measure elsewhere, that
the Irish were an ignorant and uncivilized people, that they
were unfit to be trusted with the exercise of civil rights, and
that they were almost incapable of appreciating duly the be-
nefits and advantages of constitutionalliberty. (Hear.) This
argument seemed to him a gross libel upon a people who were
as highly endowed by nature as any people upon the face of
the earth. (Cheers.) It was very true that the party which
had used this language had done every thing in their power
to confirm the truth of their assertions; it was very true
that they had done all they could, by centuries of misgo-
vernment, to debase the people of Ireland; it was very true
that they had refused them, as long as they dared, those
privileges which every Englishman was accustomed to re-
gard as his inalienable birthright ; and it was very true,
they argued that it would be dangerous to confide to them
civil rights because they had been so long accustomed
to the exercise of them. (Hear.) For his part he was not
aware of any way of rendering the people worthy of enjoying
freedom, and he believed history furnished no example of it,
in any other way than by promoting the exercise of the rights
of freemen. (Cheers.) The Irish were a high-spirited ge-
nerous hearted people, and it was not at all surprising to
him that during long periods of oppression, they should
have exhibited symptoms of turbulence and disaffection ;
bat he thought the experience of the last few years had
shewn that they could be as grateful as any other people,
that they could be as orderly, as well conducted, and as obe-
dient to the laws as ourselves, when they had a just, a liberal,
and an impartial government. (Hear, hear, and loud cheers.)
He need not occupy more time in support of the reso-
lution. He believed the measure now before parliament if
passed into a law would be a great boon to Ireland ; he be-
lieved, too, that it would be received by a vast majority there
as a gracious and a conciliatory act ; and as such it would
have a tendency to promote that harmony and good feeling
between the two kingdoms which was so necessary for the
well being and stability of tke empire. (Hear.) He be-
lieved, further, that it was especially desirable, that not only
strict justice required it, but that sound policy and wisdom
required, that we should assimilate the laws and institutions
of this country to every portion of our dominions. Hold-
ing these opinions he had thought it his duty to attend this
meeting, and he had great pleasure in moving this resolution.
(Cheers.)
Mr. BAINES said that at that late hour he should not de-
tain the meeting, but content himself with expressing his
concurrence with the sound, philosophioal, and Christian
observations just made by Mr. Hornby. He cordially agreed
in the sentiments of the resolution, and begged to second it.
He believed that to extend the institutions of the two coun-
tries, and to place them upon exactly the same footing, would
be the most effectual method to preserve the unity of the
empire, and to make our connection with the sister island of
real benefit to all parties (hear, hear).
The MAYOR then put the motion, and it was carried.
Mr. WILLIAM RATBBONE felt much obliged for the wel-
come cheer with which he had been greeted, and received it
as an assurance that honest and disinterested endeavours,
even if they accomplished little, were appreciated by his fel-
low-townsmen. His object in rising was to read, and then
to request their hearty adoption of a petition founded upon
the resolutions which they had carried by such majorities.
Having read the document, he said it was founded upon
two principles—its expediency and its justice. (Cheers.)
If the principle of it were adopted he believed it would be a
healing measure, and would enable this country to defy all
the world though in arms against us. (Hear.) We knew
what Irishmen had done. The Irish Duke of Wellington
led on his countrymen at Waterloo ; those plains had been
flooded with their blood, and they had fought him on to vic-
tory. Should we refuse, then, to the brave vindicators of our
country's rights, justice ? No ! (Cheers.) When they went
forth to the battle field at Waterloo, who looked whether
they were Protestant or Catholic? They were subjects of
Great Britain ; they fought for Great Britain, they bled for
the constitutional liberty of Great Britain, and they would
willingly do so again. It had been asserted that a Catholic
population would elect only Catholics but only look at Li-
verpool. What was the case there ? There was a population
of 250,000 in Liverpool, 80,000 of whom were Catholics, yet
there were only two Catholic aldermen in the council.
A VOICE.—The aldermen are not elected. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. RATHDONE only wished, if it were possible. to speak
peace, and he believed that object would be ensured, by the
adoption of this great measure. He was not there now to dis-
cuss the religious part of the question ; for he contended it was
not a religious, but a constitutional question, and that that
ought never to be brought forward by any man who relied
as he did upon the British constitution. One gentleman had
spoken of the evil effects of the poor law in Ireland. It was
at first rejected by the protetant portion of the community,
but now both parties were heartily working it together.
Mr. Currie had a brother-in-law in Ireland, a high church-
man, who passed through Liverpool only last night—the
Rev. Mr. Moore, a name connected with the highest tory
families in Ireland, and a name respected and beloved every
where where he was known, and this gentleman said, the Irish
poor-law was working very well, and conciliating all parties.
He had great pleasure in moving the adoption of the petition.
Mr. JOHN OWEN explained that he had not, in the re-
marks he had made, objected to the Irish poor law.
Mr. COGLAN had been requested to second the petition.
He cordially concurred in it, and he trusted that the high
parties to whom it was addressed would meet it in that fair
and dispassionate manner necessary for such a great occasion.
Englishmen had much to condemn in the line of policy they
had adopted towards Ireland. There was a black spot upon
the escutcheon of our national honour relative to that coun-
try, and the sooner we retraced our steps, and gave her jus-
tice, the sooner should we do our duty to that integral por-
tion of the empire. After some remarks about the Orange
faction, which it is unnecessary to publish, Mr. Coglan con-
cluded his address by expressing his hope that the bill would
receive the sanction of the House of Lords.
Mr. SHEPPARD wished it to be known to this meeting,
that " From the year 1641 to the year 1660—the-date of the
`Act of Settlement'—the Whigs and Cromwellians. in con-
junction, confiscated twenty-two counties in Ireland ; and of
these twenty-two counties it was calculated the Whigs re-
tained nineteen. What ' care' the Whigs had to the ' honour'
of their Sovereign, to the merits of the suffering Irish, or to
the laws of justice, was still remembered by the descendants
of those men who were robbed of their inheritance under the
sanction of a law which the King himself was privately averse
to; and it is equally well remembered by the Duke of De-
vonshire, the Marquis of Lansdowne, the Marquis of Head-
fort, the Lord Fitzwilliam, the Ponsonbys, Duncannons."
(Hear, hear.)
A PERSON enquired in what work these facts were stated?
Mr. replied, in a letter dated Dublin, Feb.
10th, 1836, addressed to the people of England and Ireland"
by Mr. Thomas Finn, the brother of Mr. O'Connell's bro-
ther-in-law;—(cheers)—added, that if the querist would
call at his house he might see it. (Continued cheers.)
Mr. BUSHELL commenced by saying that he had stated
before, when he had occasion to address the mayor upon a
point of order, that it was not his intention to speak upon
the question. But having now heard the subject fully dis-
cussed pro and con, and feeling that a most important feature
bad been lost sight of in the debate, he should not be doing
his duty to himself, or to those principles, both religious and
political, which he professed, were he to leave the meeting
without stating the points upon which he was at issue with
the supporters of the resolution. The most important fea-
ture in the question, as he conceived, had been almost lost
sight of. If the question were only whether justice should
be done to Ireland—if it were merely whether the inhabi-
tants of Ireland should have the management of their own
local affairs, he should at once say, 'Yes. (Hear, hear.)
He would deprive Ireland of, nothing which she was de.
sirous to have in that way; but there was this further consi
deration—how should we be affected by the boon which we
would otherwise most willingly grant ? (Hear.) He was