The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-08-13 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS,

The adjourned monthly and quarterly meeting of the town
council was held on Wednesuay, in the council chamber,
within the Town-hall.

When t

Vlayor had taken the chair, at a quarter after
c,_tnere were only twenty-one members present,

eleven o'cl

s the municipal act requires that
my-two members shall be in attendance i❑ order to form

including the chairman

a council, a messenger was despatched, at the suggestion of
Mr. Birkett, to the office of Mr. Proctor, adjacent, to ac-
quaint.that gentleman that his presence was required at the
chamber to form a council.

Mr. EARLE said, that it' the mayor adjourned the council
upon the first occasion that twenty-two members were not
present in five minutes after the usual time for commencing
the proceedings, he might rest assured that there would he a
larger and more punctual attendance afterwards. Mr. Earle
added, that Sir George Drinkwater was in the habit of taking
up his hat and walking out of the council whenever the ne-
cessary number of members were not present in five minutes
after the appointed hour for proceeding with the business.
The MAYOR said be should have no objection to act upon
Mr. Earle's suggestion on some other occasion, but in the
present instance it was impossible, as it was necessary that a
council should he formed in order that no further delay
should take place in confirming the dock committee pro-

ceedings

Imm'ediately after this conversation had taken place, Mr.
Councillor Jones entered the chamber, and twenty-two
trembers being then present, the business of the day was

commenced

DOCK COMMITTEE

tV TOWN-CLERKleWS&minutes of the pro.
ceedings of the Dock Committee. He was proceeding with
the reports of the sub-committees. when

The depu

Mr. LIARBORD asked if it were necessary to occupy the
time of the council with these reports. In the Watch Com-
mittee they had reports from their sub-committee which
were never brought before the council.
Mr. G. HOLT said, a very large proportion of the business
was now done by the sub-committee, and if the mere pro-
ceedings of the Dock Committee were read, they would be
very meagre indeed.
Mr. Isikac IlotztEs asked if some alteration had not taken
place in the mode of doing business in consequence of the
admission of reporters?

Mr. BENN said the report which the deputy town-clerk
had commenced reading, was one that had been made to the
sub-committee, and as it was a mere recapitulation, it was
unnecessary to read it.

Mr. BIRKETT observed, that the statements brought for-
ward by the Dock Committee were sufficiently explicit on al
matters save those of a financial nature, which were th
most important of all. They mentioned the per centage a
which they borrowed money, but not the sum borrowed
What he most wanted to know was the precise amount they'
borrowed.
Mr. B ENN thought it was unnecessary to state the amount
borrowed.

Mr. JOHN SMITH said it was easy to perceive that such
a statement would be productive of great inconvenience.
Mr. EVANS said the Dock Committee conducted their bu-
siness under peculiar acts of parliament. What did it matter

whether the sum borrowed were mentioned or not ? If any
gentleman conceived that any thing was wrong, he had the
power of making enquiry and satisfying himself. The money
market was known to be in a very delicate state, and the com-
mittee were.not called upon to make useless exposures of their
negotiations. If the committee were in such a state that it
was indispensible for them to raise money speedily,—and he
was he was happy to say the very reverse was the case,—such
exposures might prejudice the public interest very seriously,
Mr. BENN said it might be qatigactory to know that the
committee had no difficulty about money. The were refusing
it at 41 per cent. _

4r. BIRKETT thou2lit that if they were to conceal any-

thing, it should be their rate of interest. At present, how-
ever, they were showing the rate of interest they were pay-
ing, and not the amount of money they had borrowed. He
did not want the Dock Committee to borne to the council
and to say what they wanted to borrow, but be was anxious
that they should come there and say how much they had
borrowed.

Mr. EARLE asked whether all these questions and an-
swers were in order? He hoped they might not be kept till
midnight talking over the subject.
The MAYOR said, that as the question put by Mr. Birkett
had been answered, that gentleman had a right to proceed
after having obtained the information sought for. It was
competent for him to submit a motion, with the view of
having the amount of the money borrowed submitted to the
council.

Mr. BIRKETT said he was not prepared to submit any mo-
tion at the moment, but he would consider the subject.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES asked whether it had been fully de-
terrnihed to stop up the Salthouse and Canning Docks ? He
had been told that, at the trifling expense of £l5OO, the Can-
ning Dock might be worked out of the George's Dock ; and
as the council must be aware that if both docks were stop.
ped, the coasting trade would be put to great inconvenience,
he hoped the 'subject would be taken into consideration
again, and that they should have the Canning Dock worked
from the George's.
The MAYOR said it appeared from the proceedings of the
Dock Committee, that very extensive arrangements had been
submitted for the approbation of the council with respect to
the accommodation of the coasting trade, and that if Mr.
Holmes had anything in addition to submit to the Dock
Committee, they should be happy to receive it.
Mr. BENN said the subject introduced by Mr. Holmes
had been again and again considered, and that the Dock
Committee had arrived at the conclusion that the most expe-
ditious and effectual way of completing the arrangements in
both docks was, that both the works should go on simulta-
neously. The estimated cost of going to work according to
the plan proposed by Mr. Holmes would amount to £lO,OOO.
Mr. ISAAC HoLmEs said he had been speaking on the
subjectto Mr. Thomas Tobin, and that he believed £l5OO
would do all that was wanted. For his own part, he did not
think the cost would exceed £lOOO.
The conversation here dropped, and the proceedings were
confirmed.

GAOL COMMITTEE.
The report of the Gaol Committee set forth that Martha

,wdroy had been appointed matron to the Borough Gaol

Mr. PARKER begged to ask

if the person appointed were

a member of the Established Church ?
The MAYOR said, out of the numerous applicants the tes-
timonials as to character. conduct, and ability, in favour of
Martha Cowdroy, were :considered most satisfactory. The
question as to whether she were a member of the Established
Church was not asked. She produced excellent testimonials
as to character.

Mr. ISAAC HOLMES said the question as to what place of
worship she attended ought to have been one of the very first
asked.

The MAYOR said she had a very satisfrctory testimonial
3m a respectable clergyman of the Established Church.
e considered that she had a most satisfactory character.

Mr. PARK Kit requested that the testimonials be read.
It seemed to be the general opinion that this was unneces-
ry, and the subject dropped. .

ASSIZE COURTS AND ST. GEORGE'S lIALI.

In reference to the report of Mr. Elmes on the plan sub-
mitted by Dr Reid, for ventilating the Assize Courts, on the
plan adopted for the Houses of Parliament, the following
report of the surveyor was read :
" The surveyor, in conformity with the directions of the
council on the 4th instant, respectfully submits his report on
Dr. Reid's principle of ventilating the New Assize
Courts, &o.

" The inconvenience which is experienced by individuals,
especially those whose profession calls them to attend
crowded courts, but ill ventilated, or rather, without ventila-
tion, has long been the subject of complaint; and its
baneful effect on the constitution is too well known to require
further remark. _

There is scarcely a building of a public nature, in which
individuals congregate, but what is either subject to the op-
pressive heat of an atmosphere which scarcely allows of re-
spiration, or to sweeping currents of cold air rushing upon
them, occasioned from the ineffectual mode of ventilating.
" The plans for ventilating the new Assize Courts, which
have been arranged under the direction of Dr. Reid, will
not be subjects to these evils ; the general principle being
the uniform diffusion of pure air, as it may be required. The
principle having so well succeeded in the present houses of
parliament, under circumstances when they have been
crowded to excess, is most satisfactory ; and the experiments
exhibited before your committee are so demonstrative of its

WS,
powers, that your surveyor, with the fullest confidence, re-
spectfully recommends the adoption of the plans by the
council ; which also embrace the warming of any separate
part, or the whole of the principal edifice, and which is in-
cluded in the estimate.

" With reference to the expense which will be incurred in
:arrying ont these plans, your surveyor has no means of
:stimating it. A great part of the expense will be in the
:onstruction of the building, which, with the apparatus, &c.
las been estimated at £5,492, in addition to the ordinary
node of ventilation, which Mr. Elmes states to be the max-
mum. The correctness of this estimate your surveyor has
so reason to doubt, but the actual cost may be ascertained
separately from the general estimate, when the specifications
ire prepared ud the work advertised for.
(Saigned) " JOSEPH FRANKLIN.
" 11th August, 1841."
Mr. EARLE moved the adoption of the report. He had
ittle to add to what he had heretofore said on the subject.
He was in company with Mr. Cresswell a few days ago, and
se took the opportunity of asking him as to the success of
;he plan in the House of Commons. Mr. Cresswell gave
situ permission to say, that he never was in a room that was
)etter ventilated, or more comfortable, than the House of
Commons. -

Mr. EVANS said, he had. since the last council investi-
gated the subject, and he thought he knew the whole prin-
ciple. He could not help expressing regret that the plan
would be so expensive, and he believed that hereafter that
principle would be applied to buildings ;ft a cost compara-
tively trifling. This was certainly a new era. They had
heard it said that the government would, if possible, tax the
air which we breathe. They bud at all events arrived at a
time, when it was necessary to pay a very high price for a
supply of atmospheric air.
Mr. GLADSTONE said, Dr. Reid's charge for ventilating
the Wellington-rooms was four times as large as the work
was now to be done for. Dr. Reid, it appeared, was to be
paid a large sum for superintending the work, yet he was to
be in Liverpool only about one week.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE said the plans were Dr. Reid's,
but with the estimate he had nothing to do. His charge for
seeing that his plans were carried into execution would be
£5OO.
Mr. EARLE said the Wellington-rooms were not now to
be done upon Dr. Reid's plan. if they were to be ventilated
according to Dr. Reid's plan, they_ would cost the amount of
the original estimate, or £llOO. Dr. Reid had not pretended
to estimate the cost. He had merely furnished the plans,
and the cost of adapting them had been estimated by Mr.
Elmes.'
Mr. EVANS said he should like to know whether Mr.
Elmes was to receive 5 per cent. on this additional cost.
Mr. EARLE could not answer the question, but he believed
the 5 per cent. was to be paid upon the original estimate.
Mr. BUSHELL said it would be absurd to think of build-
ing the Courts without ventilation. The cost of the pro-
posed plan would be very large undoubtedly, but it was bet-
ter that the work should be effectually done at once upon a
system which they knew would answer, than to run the risk
of expending a much larger sum in alterations, and perhaps
never have the work effectually done after all.
Mr. ALEXANDER SMITH said two plans were submitted
to the committee by Dr. Reid. One of those had been tried
and found effectual, the other would have been but experi-
mental. He thought it was desirable, with a building that
would cost so much, to have the work done in as complete a
way as possible at first.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES having here intimated that he should
not divide the council on the subject, no division took place,
and the proceedings of the committee were confirmed.

THE ELECTION RIOTS.
The MAYOR read a Petition which he had received from
certain householders residing in Atherton-street, stating that
party of riotous and disorderly persons pa-
on the evening of the 29th of June, the day of the borough
election, a large
raded the streets in the neighbourhood of the Custom-house,
and broke several,windows, and did other damage to houses
belonging to the said householders in Atherton-street. They
further stated that the'expense could not be borne by many
of the .householders, and they prayed the council to grant
them some reparation.
Mr. A. SMITH, jun. said he had been given to understand
that the town-clerk, in reply to a similar application, had said
that there was some flaw in the aet
of parliament, which pre-
vented reparation from being. made.
The' MAYOR--What he said was, that the act conveyed no
power of the kind.
Mr. SMITH asked whether the parties bad not a claim on
the borough or county ? For his own Part, he thought they

had a claim, under such circumstances, on the county.
The TOWN-CLERK had always said that if they had a claim
at all it must be on the county; but, in the next place, that
they enuld have no claim on the county unless the proceed-
`ngs_a_ the rioters should be such as to show that there was
a determination to demolish the houses. Cases
before the judges which were much stronger than
ie cases which occurred at the last election, and in

those cases the judgment of the courts was given ag;inst the
claim, nasmuch as it could not be shown that there was any

intention on the part of the rioters to go for the demolition
of the building.

Mr. CA SE said the present was an application to compen-
sate out of the corporate funds. He asked the town•clerk
whether they could apply the corporate funds to any such
purpose ? That was the question. Until lately, it had been
the understanding that parties receiving damage of this
nature should be reimbursed out of the county funds, unless
it could be shown that the rioters proceeded on the intention
of demolishing the house. However, the council had nothing
to do with that point. All they had to see was, whether they
could apply the corporate funds to such a purpose; and,
under the authority of the town-clerk, he was satisfied that
they could not. It therefore only remained for the council
to state to the memorialists that they had no such power ;
and with that view he begged to move—" That the town-
clerk be instructed to inform the memorialists that their
request cannot be complied with, as the corporate funds can-
not legally be applied to such purposes." _ _

TheThwtq-c-ittlx said he had informed the committee
that the council had not the power of granting reparation
under such circumstances ; that the corporate funds were
held for the benefit of the public, and could not t
individual purposes.
Mr. IsAAc HOLMES conceived that something might b
done for the sufferers. He recollected that the council had

be applied to

departed upon one occasion from the regular routine. Upon
that occasion certain philosophers had come down to the
town, and it being thought right to entertain them, the then
mayor had £4OO granted to him for the purpose. It had
been suggested to have a subscription raised For the indi-
viduals in this instance, who had, no doubt, suffered severely,
and to have the mayor head the list. He thought the coun-
cil might grant £lOO to the mayor for the purpose. His
worship might contribute a certain part of that sum, and that
by this means the sufferers might be indemnified. He thought
it would be an extreme hardship if the poor people were com-
pelled to bear the whole loss. If the subscription plan were
adopted, more service would be rendered to their fellow-
townsmen than could be rendered by entertaining individuals
at public dinners who were of very little consequence so far
as the trade of the town generally was concerned. Mr.
Holmes concluded by stating that it had been the intention
of Mr. Cooper, if present, to submit a motion to this effect.
After a few observations from Mr. BIRKETT, the motion
was adopted.

THE TOWN-H

" Gentlemen,—We, the undersigned occupiers of pre-
mises immediately adjoin ng the Town-hall, heg most re-
spectfully to subn it to your consideration the great inconve-
nience felt both by ou ,elves and the public, from the want
of the Town-hall clock not being lighted by gas. Trusting
so generally notorious a complaint has but to be mentioned,
in order to be removed,

John Dean

are, Gent]

emen, yours, most obediently
I Pierce and Crossfield,
Robert Jones,
Thos. Bean,
Mander and Allender,
A. Holden,
Butler and Colquhoun,
1 Wareing Webb,
Charles Drury.
Jan Wilson.

Thomas Baines,

John Jones,
Henry Lyon,
G. and J. Robinson,
W. Sirdefield,

S. Towers,
Thos. Hall,
Thos. Nixon,

" July 31,1841."

The ICIAYOR said, this petition had been presented a few
days before, and as the clock was undergoing repairs at
present, and this the proper time for entertaining such a
subject, he had procured the surveyor's report, which he
he would read. First of all, however, he wished to state,
that in the years '27, '2B, and '32, the, same subject had been
brought before the council. The following is a copy of the
surveyor's report:

"TO THE MAYOR

" The surveyor, having examined the framework of the
dome, with reference to' illuminating the dials of the clock,
reports, that the space between the external face and the
curb which suports the dome is too confined to admit the
gaslights, without removing some of the principal timber,
which cannot be done without disturbing its stability ; and,
in other respects, the burners must, of necessity, be placed
so near the timber as to endanger its safety. He therefore
cannot recommend a compliance with the memorial.

"August 10, 1841." -
The MAYOR concluded by presuming that the council
would be satisfied with the surveyor's report, and come at
once to the conclusion that the thing was impracticable.
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. BIRKETT said, it had been the practice to pay for the
lighting the church clocks out of the parochial rates, but
that now appeared, according to the opinion of the poor-
law commissioners, not to be a legal payment. Under these
circumstances, he thought it the duty of the corporation to
light the public clocks, and not to subject the churchwardens
to the expense.
The MAYOR said, that when the parish refused and com-
plained, it would then be time enough to bring the subject
before the council.

Mr. EVANS said, they were not lighting the churches for
the sake of the churches, but for the sake of the parish. He
thought the parishioners might light their clocks as well as
keep up their scavengers. He looked on it that if the cor-
poration paid for the lighting of their own churches it would
be quite sufficient. If they were to enter into an equitable
adjustment, he thought in all likelihood that other matters
would be discovered which the corporation paid for, and
which the parish ought to pay.
After a few words from Mr. BIRKETT and Mr. G.' H.
LAWRENCE, the report was received and adopted.