The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-02-26 00:00:00

RAILWAYS

Lord SANDON asked the President of the Board of Trade, as
there was a variety of railroad projects likely to come under the
consideration of parliament in a very short period, what course
it was the intention of his Majesty's government to pursue with
respect to different railroads having a common terminus? lie
wished to know what were the intentions of his Majesty's go-
vernment on that subject?
A long conversation then took place on the subject of the
numerous railway bills now before the house, or about to be in-
troduced, Mr. P. Thomson suggesting that there should be a
general committee on the subject, to report on the best course
that ought to be pursued fur protecting public and private in-
terests.

Lord G. LENNOX afterwards moved the second reading of the
London and Brighton railway bill, (tio 1,) and said that he
should press ,it, as delay wont& oyable rival parties to overtake
ar-i them, while no harm could be dospts adoption, as the com-
mittee could not sit on it till tenlini had expired. Lord San-
don moved that the second reading be deferred for a week, to
afford time for the proposed committee on railways generally to
make its report as to the best mode of proceeding. Sir J. Gra-
ham was also favourable to postponement, for the sake of the
inquiry. As £45,000,000 were said to be embarked in these
speculations, he thought the subject was well worthy of the con-
ration of the government and the cautious proceedings of
tWLF houair4tnd as to postponing the bills fur a few days, he
thought mere might be great advantage if they were also post-
poned for the present session, in order that there might be an
appeal " frein the country drunk to the country sober." Sir
IL Peel also concurred in the propriety of postponement, that
there might be time for the proposed select committee to consi-
der the subject generally, and to advise the house as to the best
course of proceeding, so as to fully protect the interests of all
parties. He did not hold this opinion from any hostility to any
particular measures. On the contrary, he thought that rail-
roads might be of great public and commercial advantage. Af-
ter an extended conversation, the house divided. when the post-
ponement of this bill was carried by 271 to 75, being a majority
of 196 in favour of Lord Sandon's amendment for postpone-
ment. The bill is accordingly deferred.
The pensions' duties bill, and the municipal corporation's act
amendment bill were read a second time. The house adjourned
at twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAY.
•
Several petitions from agriculturists, complaining of distress,
were presented, and referred to the agricultural committee. The
Earl of Aberdeen presented a petition from New Brunswick
against any alteration in the timber duties.
PPOINTMENT OF BOROUGH MAGISTRATES.
Lord WHARNCLIFFE, in bringing this subject under the con-
sideration of the house, disclaimed any intention of making
personal remarks. They had been told by the promoters of the
municipal reform bill that it was to introduce a new era with
respect to borough proceedings, which would be so perfect that
no complaint would in future be made. He and his friends in
that and the other house admitted that the people ought to haie
their share in the election of corporate bodies, and that some
evils had grown up under the old system which it would be de-
sirable to put an end to, taking care that in carrying the reform
into practise that a recurrence of those evils should be avoided,
His lordship then noticed the clause of the bill introduced by
that house, giving to town councils the right of nominating
magistrates, while it reserved to the crown a veto upon those ap-
pointments. During the discussions in the other house, arising
out of the differences, between the two houses on this subject, he
-was surprised to find that the Secretary of State, and the leader
of the House of Commons, making the following observation :
" It did not much matter," said that noble lord (John Russell,)
" what their lordships had done ; for so long as he and his col-
leagues remained in office, the opinion of the House of Commons
would always have great weight." This he (Lord W.) thought
unjustifiable language to hold out to the country by a minister
of the crown. His lordship then detailed the practical effects or
working of the bill, and described the character of the lists of
new magistrates recommended by the new town councils. In
places where the commissioners of municipal inquiry had re-
ported that no complaint whatever had been made as to the im-
partial administration of justice, not a single gentleman exer-
cising the duties of a magistrate had been selected to continue
in that office.' This was the case in Liverpool, and the omission
, was calculated to fix a stigma upon those gentlemen which they
did not deserve. .He wanted to know why gentlemen of the
conservative pattrwere excluded from the magistracy in Leeds,
-Yarmouth, and other places? He knew that the defence to be
set up on the other side was, that there was undue partiality on
.the part of the justices. From his own experience of county
Estices he did not believe that this charge could be mainta;ned.
e believed that three-fourths of the persons who acted as county
magistrates were conservatives, indeed, the Edinburgh Review,
the-great organ of the liberal party, had stated that the great
majority of all those who possessed £3OO a-year were conserva-
tives. The way in which the boasted measure of municipal
reform was to be worked out was, that town councils were to be
-created for party purposes. If this was reform he would have
none of it. He would not be content with that reform which
gave power to one party and not to another. He called upon
the Lord Chancellor to interfere in this matter. Lord Wharn-
cliffe concluded by moving, •` That an humble address be pre-
sented to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously
pleased to order that there be laid upon the table of the house a
copy of a circular letter addressed by Lord John Russell to the
town-clerks or other officers of the several municipal boroughs ;
also copies of the lists of persons sent up from the town-councils
as recommended for the office of magistrate; also copies of the
lists of names of persons assented to by the government and ap-
pointed."
Lord MELBOURNE replied at great length to the observations
of Lord Wharncliffe. He had no objection to produce the
letter written by his noble friend (Lord John Russell) to the
town councils, neither did be object to furnish lists of the ma-
gistrates who had been appointed; but with respect to the
second part of the noble lord's motion, the production of the
lists sent up by thktown-councils to the Secretary of State, he
would entreat the noble lord to consider whether it was prudent
to press it, especially as the production of these documents had
not been pressed for in another place. Those lists were intend-
ed to be confidential communications, like the recommendations
of lord-lieutenants, relative to the appointment of magistrates.
If they were produced it would appear that some individuals,
recommended by town-councils, had not been appointed, and it i
might seem a slur on those gentlemen if the lists were laid on
the table and conveyed to the public. He therefore thought
that the noble lord had better not trench on the improved course
of conduct which might be hereafter pursued, by pressing fur
the production of lists which were not necessary for his own
purpose. With that exception he had no objection whatever to
the noble lord's motion.

—Ananimateil debate ensued, after which Lord WHARNCLIFFE
replied. In the course of his second speech he said that he had
loader his notion first-to- check -the 'practice which the opposite
side of the house admitted to be improper ; and because their
lordships would shortly have under their consideration a bill for
reforming the Irish corporations. He hoped they and the pub-
licwould take warning froin what had occurred. It was in-
tended to pledge their lordships to that bill on the same princi-
ples laid down in the English bill, but that intention had happi-
ly been frustrated on the first night of the session. He was
ready to admit that the Irish corporations required reform, he
would however take care, as far as in him lay, that the Irish
corporation bill should not be perverted to party purposes, and
that it should not place power in the hands of a particular party
in Ireland. (Hear, hear.) The information which Lord Mel-
bourne objected to produce was not material to him, (Lord
W..) as he could at any time procure it by looking to the files
of the provincial newspapers.
The amended motion was agreed to.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMNIONS.-TUESDAY.
ILI\ .11,S.

On the motion of Arr. P. Tiiiimsotc, the following resolutions
were agreed to :—" That the house would not receive any peti-
tion upon a private bill relative to compliance or nun-compli-
ance with the standing orders subsequent to the second reading
of such bill—that the house would not receive any rush peti-
tion relative to any railway bill, notice for the second reading of
which had been given previous to Monday next--that it should
be a standing order of the house that seven clear days should
intervene between the second reading of all railway bills and
the sitting of the committee, and that in the cases of the bills
that bad been postponed, the said seven days should be allowed
from the daY originally fixed for the second reading of such
bills, as if they had been then Lead a second time.
acceteotiAle's COMPENSATION BILL.
Mr. TULK moved the second reading of this bill, which was
lost by a majority of 44. The numbers were for the second
reading 81—agaiust it 125.
Colonel B
aRUEN. Thingallant officer refuted in a triumphant
me nner the lle
some atatime sinceti ons contained in the petition of Mr. Vigors,
presented to the
•liy,
house, in order to divert at-
tention from the Raphael contreve
OBANGIC LODGag.
Mr. HuME, at the close of a roll speech, moved," That' an
bumble address be presented to
his Majesty,
that his Majesty
win beg raeieusly pleased to direct measures to be taken to re-
e the public service at home and ithiamg e ; ,
41,i,,,te_vaery jeui.gtoe,
:pinriclirvi efTninncillor lord-lieutenant, deputy lord
magistrate,' militia-officer, inspeeter, chine acot'nestasbles
rattriorum,
of the constabulary and. peace preservation force, eeerymfac,r
t; • 1 Ireland, add every. functionary emloyed iu the ad_
of pi:LaCe IL
of justice, and in maintaining the peace of the ministration
of any orange lodge, of
country, who sha.,..l] attend the meeting

any riband lodge, or of any other political club, institution, or
association, whenever or wherever assembled, having secret
forms of initation, and being bound together by any religious
ceremony, and with secret signs and passwords for recognition
of members of suclOodies, and who shall not withdraw from such
societies or associations on or before the expiration of one month
after the publication of any proclamation which his Majesty
may be pleased to direct to be issued hereupon, forbidding their
continuing to be members of such Orange lodges, societies, and
associations."
Sir Wm. MOLESIVORTH seconded the motion. The hon. ba
ronet recommended the house instantly to deprive of his office
every magistrate on the list of the Orange society ;—to dismiss
from employment every functionary who belonged to it; let
them, he said, consider the muster-roll of this society as the list
of their bitterest foes, of those implacable enemies of the peo-
ple's rights, iu whom it would be madness for their sakes, dis-
graceful for the people's sake, to repose trust or confidence. It
would be miserable folly to attempt to conciliate Orangemen.
He who spared his foes inflicted a wound on himself; he who
hesitated to destroy would be destroyed. The Orangemen were
now in their grasp ; let them seal the doom of the society, and
crush its chiefs !
Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought it desirable that Orange socie-*J
ties should be suppressed, but did not believe that they were the
bitter enemies of the present administration. He thought it
desirable, however, that Orange societies should be put down, as
many evils arose from them, which he detailed at length, con-
nected with the administration of justice and the tranquility of
Ireland. In viewing this as a state question, they had to con-
sider the various o,stacles which might stand in the way of ac-
complishing their object. There might be a way of proceed-
ing, very taking, perhaps at first sight, extremely decided,
prompt and energetic, but which, so far from destroying the
flame of these associations, would hut raise it the higher—
would but stir it up to a height which it would not naturally
have attained, and, instead of utterly extinguishing it, would
produce a fiercer' and more consuming blaze,- A report had
been made last year by the committee on Orange lodges, which
stated that it was not necessary to enact new laws against them,
but that the existing statutes, if put in execution, would be quite
adequate for the total suppression of such associations. They
(ministers) had considered it their duty to ascertain what view
of the subject would be taken by the law officers of the crown,
and he had thought it right, instead of putting the question in a
particular light on a subject of such vast importance, to see his
hon. and learned friend the attorney-general, and converse with
him generally on all its bearing. The impression upon his
mind, after all that his hon. friend hail slated, was that the
question whether these societies were legal was one of very
great doubt. His hon. friend said, that without looking most
carefully at the whole subject, he could not venture absolutely
to pronounce an opinion as to their legality or illegalita , and
the solicitor-general took a similar view of the case. The no-
ble lord concluded a very long speech by moving as an amend-
ment, "that an humble address be presented to his Majesty,
praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to take
such measures as to his Majesty seemed advisable for the ef-
fectual discouragement of Orange lodges, and generally all po-
litical societies. excluding persons of different faith, using signs
and symbols, and acting by associated branches."
Mr. \V. PATTEN, as the chairman of the committee on
orange lodges, wished to express the great pleasure he had de-
rived from the speech of the noble lord. To show hoW nearly
their opinions coincided, he would read the amendment it was
his intention to have proposed :—" That an humble address be
presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be
graciously pleased to take such steps as may be deemed desirable
to discourage all political societies, excluding persons of differ-
ent religious faith, using signs and symbols, and acting by
affiliated branches." He was of opinion that the resolution
should be as gerivral as possible.
After Mr. Maxwell, Colonel Verner, and Colonel Perceval
had spoken,
Lord STANLEY congratulated his friend (Lord John Russell)
on the triumph he had obtained by the mild, great. prudent,
and statesmanlike tone he had assumed on this occasion. He
approved of the spirit of the amendment, but could wish to see
a slight verbal alteration which would not lessen its moral
force. The words he wished left out were " orange lodges."
Lord JOHN RUSSELL regretted that he could not comply
with Lord Stanley's recommendation.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said that the refusal of the noble lord
( Lord John Russell) to comply with his noble friend (Stan-
ley's) recommendation would not alter the tone of the few re-
marks he had to make. He objected to proceeding by resolu-
tions; he thought they ought rather to indicate the will of the
legislature by a law rather than by a resolution of one branch
of it. They ought studiously to avoid a course by which a
dominant Majority of that house could at its pleasure denounce
any party. He should be cautious in denouncing by a majority
of that house any proceedings of any bodies, which, though
they might be objectionable in many respects, might still not be
against any law of the land. The resolutions of that house had
no force, except such as the prerogative of the crown might
give them; they had not the force of law, and this was the first
time that be had heard of establishing the precedent of a reso-
lution of that house, disqualifyinc, for office on the alleged
ground of conduct, the legality of which' was at least question-
able. However, he waved all those objections, for be perceived
that all in that house were prepared to address the crown to
put an end to all secret societies. Independently of his own
feeling on the subject, he objected to the words which had been
used that orange societies were illegal. The hon. baronet who
had seconded the resolution had declared that all those societies
were contrary to the law of the land, and added that the At-
tornev-General bad nothing to do but to institute prosecutions,
in order to have them so declared by the courts of law. Now,
if that was so, it was a powerful objection to this resolution,
because if they believed that the members of orange societies
ought to be prosecuted, and were amenable to the law, they
ought not to send them to trial loaded with the the declared
opinion of that house as to their guilt. (Cheers.) In fact, the
only ground on which the resolution before the house proceeded
was, that these societies were not contrary to the law; the noble
lord was therefore right in not sending them to another tribunal,
for if the issue of such a trial should be a declaration of their
legality, the noble lord would find it much more difficult to put
them down on a future occasion.
The amendment was agreed to without a division.—Ad
ourned.