The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-10-30 00:00:00

DRAPERS' MEETING.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STrEVD,IRD.
Ste,—Through
relative hthiearmediumof your useful paper, would
beg to offer— a fewto the intended meeting of
the drapers. The deputation of assistants, in accordance with
,r o
one of the resolutions passed at the last general meeting, have
waited upon some of the principals who employ the greatest
number of assistants, and it has been decided that the persons
so called on, ate to request a general meeting of the drapers,
in order to come to some definite arrangement respecting the
hours of closing. This meeting, it is known, is fixed for 'rues-
day evening, at the Clarendon-rooms ; and I trust that, pre-
vious to the meeting, some, or all of those who signed the re-
quisition, will meet together, in order to talk the matter over,
and to frame such resolutions as may be likely to suit the lau-
dable object that the assistants have in view. If they found
an establishment for their moral and intellectual improve-
ment, they will achieve a most. noble and praiseworty object,
and their good—their magnanimous example, should be imi-
tated throughout the wide sphere of the British dominions,
and in every civilized portion of the globe.
The main question for the meeting of the employers will
he, whether or not they will consent to the hours as stated in
the memorial? If they do not consent to this, then the next
question will be, what other hours should be substituted? If
only one time of closing is to he observed throughout the year,
it cannot be less than eight o'clock; and even this hour will
be too late for any beneficial purpose. If there is to be a time
of closing in winter, and another time of closing in summer,
the hour should be seven o'clock in winter, and either eight
or nine o'clock in summer. If they grant seven o'clock in
winter for only five months, then the hour of closing should
be eight o'clock during the other seven months. But, if they
think eight o'clock too early for summer, then they ought to
have seven o'clock for either seven or eight months, and nine
o'clock for the rest of the year. These are my ideas on the
subject, and, I think, they are both reasonable and practica-
ble. The time has now come, when we must grant a fair al-
lowance to a reasonable and just demand. If the cultivation
of the mind be worthy of the attention of the public, their
voice will be strongly heard in behalf of the good cause of
the drapers' assistants, and every employer who has a proper
sense of right and wrong, and who takes an impartial and uu-

prejudiced view of this subject, will be convinced that his in.
terest will not sufferby an undeviating observance of the pro.
posed hours.—Your's, A WOOLLEN DRAPER.
29th October, 1838.

MEETING OF THE CONSERVATIVE ELECTORS
OF SCOTLAND WARD.

Last evening a meeting of the conservative municipal elec-
tors of Scotland Ward, was held in the large room at Mas-
ker's Hotel, in Burlington-street, fur the purpose of hearing
the declaration of the sentiments of Mr. Isaac Holmes, the
conservative candidate for the ward. The meeting was an-
nounced to take place at eight o'clock. shortly after which
time the large room of the Hotel, capable of accommodating
about 290 persons, was filled, and on the motion of Mr. Teas-
dale, seconded by Mr. Archdale, Mr. Joseph Dunkerly was
unanimously appointed to the chair.
The CHAIRMAN said he had been taken by surprise, and
was not prepared to address the meeting. They were met,
however, together for the purpose of hearing the sentiments
of the conservative candidate for the ward. He hoped that
Mr. Holmes would be listened to with attention; by which
only could they properly weigh the sentiments of any
individual.

Mr. Hoe:ties was then introduced into the room, and re-
ceived with very great cheering.— He said,—Mr. Chairman
and gentlemen, since I last had the pleasure of seeing you
the canvass is completed. I may say, with the exception of a
very few individuals, and I have the pleasure to inform you,
gentlemen, the result is highly flattering.—(Cheers.) If we
do not win the election, gentlemen, it is now our own fault;
but you must use nevertheless, I assure you, your most strenu-
ous exertions for that object. Gentlemen, you have a wary
adversary to contend with; yoti have an adversary who will
use every art and every cunning; for your opponents have
everything to gain, and everything to keep, and they will not
certainly lose anything if they can possibly avoid it. But,
gentlemen, you have a strong principle—a strong motive of
action; you, gentlemen, have to endeavour to overcome de-
ceit and cunning,.—(Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, three years
have only passed since the feeling towards your opponents
was very different. What was at that time the public feeling
towards them? They were carried into the council almost
be acclamation. One would have thought that gratitude
alone would have caused them to look after the pub-
lic propeity and the public funds, but they have failed in
so doing. Gentlemen, since I last saw you, my opponent has
thought proper to publish au address. The address, 1 sup-
pose, sonic of you may have read; but with your leave I will
make a few comments upon it. I believe, when I last saw
you, I mentioned that I considered Mr. Lacon as a sort of
tool--as a sort of person brought forward merely to support
his party. A gentleman (whose name can be given) told
me, alter he saw Mr. Lacon's address, that he went to see
that gentleman, and said to him, "Pray what has brought
you out for Scotland ward ?" " Well," said he, " I don't
know; I don't know a single soul among them; but, however,
it has been fixed."—(Laughter.) Another gentleman went
to Mr. Lacon, and asked him if his mind was made up on the
warehouse question ? "No," said he. The answer was,
"my property is at stake, and I cannot be satisfied with this
answer. I must know what your mind is!" " Well," said
he, " perhaps it will be made up when [ get into the Council."
(Laughter.) That day I trust is far distant.—(Loud cheers.)
Well, gentlemen, Mr. Lacon tells you, that he has nut been
thrust upon this ward. I don't suppose that persons went to
his office in Water-street, and shouldered him into the
ward; I don't suppose that; but what does he himself say in
the close of his address ?—that he is scarcely known in the
ward.—(Cries of "oh.") If he has not been thrust into the
ward, where has he come from ? Many of us have lived a
long time in the town, but certainly, for any own part, I never
heard of Mr. Lacon as a political character. From whence
can lie come? Perhaps he came under the protection of Dr.
Blackburn. I recollect asking once, when a child, where
came from, and was told, out of a bar. Perhaps Dr. Mack-
burn, who, we know, is an accoucheur, has caught Mr. Lacon
from the clouds, and has had him in a box.—(" Drug box,"
and laughter.) And Dr. Blackburn might have brought this
box to the Castle Inn, and put it on the table, and an embryo
Council man hops out.—(Loud laughter ) This really ap-
pears to me to be the only way in which he can have come,
earace he has not been thrust upon you. I think, gentlemen,
Mr. Lacon seems to insinuate that I have been using something
like deceit: it is certainly foreign to my character; deceit
might have been many anal many a time of advantage to the
if I would have used it. lie says I am nut Simon Pure, but
that he is the real Simon Pure. He says that I pretend to
be a reformer; but he assures you that he is a reformer and
no mistake. Why gentlemen, 1 tell you, 1 tell Mr. Lacon,
I tell the whole town if they could now hear me, I am the
reform candidate; I come forth on reform principles-1 come
forwards to reform the corporation. (Loud cheering.) The
members of the cot potation, under the semblance of reform,
have insinuated themselves into the feelings and affections of
the people, and by that means were carded into the council,
and when they got there, they then began to show that they
were not worthy to belong to any party. (" True.") I trust,
gentlemen, we shall never let the matter rest till we have re-
formed them. (Hear, hear.) Therefore I say, I have said
I was a reformer in former times; but gentlemen, I have
seen reason to doubt the men who have now cot into the
council. \Vas I then to go hoodwinked, when r saw that by
deceit they had got me and others to support them ? No.
gentlemen, when you are deceived you ought undoubtedly to
feel indignant, and you ought to hurl your indignation, if
possible, at those men who have acted so treacherously.
(Bravo.) There is then, gentlemen, a pretty sort of matter
in Mr. Lacon's address; he is stating about the duties of
councilmen; that they should go into the council-room with
no political bias; actually, when he, and the whole patty are
going there to support nothing but a political party. (Loud
cries of " hear, hear.") We really, gentlemen, are not thus
to be imposed upon. For my part 1 consider it a sort of
presbyterian net to catch stray votes, (loud cheers,) that is
certainly my feeling upon this sit-NE-et. 1 think, gentlemen,
we have almost had sufficient of Mr. Lacon and his address.
I thought at one time of answering that addresss, but perhaps
this answer will satisfy you. (Cries of " Quite sufficient.")
In the course of my canvass, gentlemen, I have cer-
tainly met with some curious circumstances. 1 have
been received undoubtedly with the utmost politeness by
almost every one, but when I have mentioned the state of the
public accounts to some—when I have told them that in the
town-clerk's office, where Mr. Foster received for fees,
emoluments the sum of £5,500 per annum, and the present
town-clerk, by the account of the men now in the council,
was only to receive £2,300, yet, by sonic means or other,
£6,000 is not accounted for. (" Oh !") Some of them
have said, "Why, we really cannot possibly think this; we
don't wish to hear it ; we cannot possibly think that the evi-
dence is sufficient to prove it." Why, gentlemen, it will
sometimes occur that the evidence will not be sufficient,
where the people don't like it. I recollect being once in
Ireland, and an Irishman who had just come over from
Connemara had been stealing some geese; Pat was taken
up, and two persons swore before the magistrates that they
had seen him take these geese. Poor Pat hung down his
head and had nothing to say; but his wife was present, and
women are ever ready with their tongues, and sometimes
with their wit. " Well," said the justice, " what do you say
tat this evidence? These witnesses positively swear they
saw you steal these geese ?" " Well," says the wife, "they
are great spalpeens: and whet business had dhey to be
lookin' at Pat; an' if dhey had not bin lookin' dhey would
not have seen 'itn."—(A laugh.) The justice wire not satis-
tie I. "Well," said she, '' if you are nut satisfied wid dhat,
let the go out, an' I'll bring twenty more witnesses to swear
Obey river did see him at all."—(Laughter.) Now, gentle-
men, in my canvass some of the voters have told me, without
you can bring positive proof of this, what business have you
to come forward and speak in this way of the corporatism?
I tell you what 1 answered. I said, I want to get into the
council to get that proof. I have tried in the public papers
to get that proof, and they won't give it me; and I want now
to get into the council anal insist on the proof. Anal if, gen-
tlemen, by your exertions 1 ant sent there, 1 certainly will
insist on that iproof.—(Cheers.) For what is now actually
the fact? Here we see men whose principal charge against
the late corporation was, " You give a salary to Mr. Foster
of about £7,000 per annum." 1 don't defend it. What is
1)01V the case? If
you were te give Mr. Radcliffe the fees
and emoluments which Mr. Foster received, together with
the £lOO a-tear salary, you would save the town £2OOO
per a• Litman. (Hear, hear.) Because there is £llOO in
salaries for officers in the Town-clerks office alone, the duties
of which Mr. Foster, and Mr. Statham did. (Cheers, and a
cry of " what is the deputy for ?") Our opponents have been
speaking to me for the last three years, ever since I voted for
Mr. Hursfall, (for 1 was not then completely away), and
calling me " rat, rat." Rat ! I said; what is a rat ? It
goes into its hole, and there it sculks, and when it sees i;s
opportunity it comes to plunder, and take what it can catch;
those who stealthily alas this, they are the rats. (Great cheer-
ing.) They fancied they were covered as it were, with re-
form, and no one was looking at them, and that they might
do just as they liked. (Hear.) A circumstance has occurred
in the council gentlemen, since we last met. I meal' the
resignation of Mr. Birch. We may differ on some tiointa:
he has not seen so thoroughly through the things in the coun-
cil as myself, but he has seen sufficient to leave them. I am
son y ro say he has abandoned a post, which, in iny opinion,
it would have been better for hint to have retained. If I had a
place in that council board, nothing could have pleased me
better thin the co-operation of that high spirited, and honour-
able man. (" He's toe honest for them.' ) He has received
personable insult for the faithful discharge of his duty, and
his mind could not brook the insult. My opinion is, gentle-
men, that there is a sort of declaration given by every one
who is allowed to be a candidate on the reform interest, that
he is to act along with the rest, and from a highly honourable
feeling, Mr. Birch not hieing able ant bangei to act with
ihem,has left hem. (" No doubt of it.'') If that is the
case, it is your duty, and the duty of every ward in the town
to send conservatives into the couueil—(cheers)—to send
iedependent men into that place. (Cheers.) Now, gentle-
men, I certainly feel rather sorry to mention some appoint-
ments that have taken place in the corporation. I am sorry to
mention the appointment of illr. Roscoe; but it is my duty to
mention it, for I consider it was a job. He was appointed
sergeant-at-mace, and then another was appointed to carry the
mace, and todo the duty for which he is to receive £350 per an.
(" Ah !") We heitrd during the investigation by the com-
missioners, a great deal of Mr. Bourne's appointment as a
Young attorney to the dock estate. in Mr. Foster, the Town
Clerk's office there was a Mr. Lowe, a gentleman well ac-
quainted with all the duties of that office ; and that gentleman
offered to do the duties of Deputy Town Clerk at £4OO per an.
But no, that place was wanted for Mr. Crooke—what shall I
term hint ? A sort of suckling of an attorney, just in that
state- as an attorney—when the gum begins to swell, but
the tooth does not appear. And as if they thought that was
not sufficient—as if they thought they had not thrust sufficient
of their pet bantlings into snug berths, they must send
another to be solicitor to the dock estate, and we have there
another youngster. ( Hear, hear.) Gentlemen, I have long
doubted the effect of Whiggery. I have observed its effects
now gentlemen for several years. When first my Lord
Gres- became the Premier, with what exultation was he re-
ceived throughout time country. But what was the effect of
Whiggery? The Greylings were given places in all direc-
tions; Whiggery then appeared in its true form. And what
do we now find? That Whiggery out of office is pure patriot-
ism, and in office is profusion and extravagance. Cheers.)
Why then gentlemen, we have had enough of Whiggery,
and it is now the duty of the country having seen its effects,
to support the constitution in its full integrity. (Great
cheering.) Why, gentlemen, do they still talk of reform?
When a vessel arrives safely into port, do its owners wish it
to go out again to sea for the mere pleasure of buffeting the
waves and again coming into port? Certainly not ; the
voyage is accomplished, and there the vessel ought to rest.
And when the Reform Bill was passed, reform ought then to
have been at an end. It is therefore our duty now to pre-
. serve the constitution as it was then established, and to admit
no further changes. Talk of reform! Why, would they go
and disfranchise Manchester and Leeds, and Birmingham
anti Sheffield again, for the mere pleasure of keeping the
country in continual agitation and tumult ? These towns
have obtained the right of franchise, and there is an
end of it; and the very name of reform itself is now a trickery,
and made use of by those who talk about it as a means only
of keeping- themselves in place anal power, and keeping the
country in continual agitation.—(Cheers.) Gentlemen, I
have been long told that my sentiments were the same as
your sentiments; sometimes I have been termed a Radical,
and sometimes a Tory; but, however' have always said,
"call me what you will, but I will not be called a Whig."—
(Cheers.) Look, gentlemen, at the present situation of her
Majesty's Ministers; look at them in the House of Commons;
there they give one man a chain, and let him tie it round their
leg: that is Dan O'Connell.—(Cheers.) Oh, I am saying
nothing about Mr. O'Connell; I am only telling you what
power he has, and in what way the present Ministers are
satisfied to let hint keep that power. They would be sa-
tisfied to let any one have the same power, if it would be the
means of keeping them in power and place. If they advance
too far, O'Connell gives them a pull, and they come back
again. I tell you what I think, Mr. O'Connell has more
sense than the whole of them put together. Well, gentlemen,
their measure gets into the Lords, and they let the Duke of
Wellington put a chain round their -leg; and if I thinks

they have have gone too far, he pulls the chain, and pulls
them back.—(Cheers.) And then they give Lord Brougham
a whip, and if he thinks they have not gone far enough, he
comes and gives them a whip.—(Continued cheering.)
Where is the proud situation in which our great men formerly
appeared? Would they have held office on these terms?
No, they certainly would not; and I do say, gentlemen, the
sooner we get quit of a Ministry like this the better.—
(Cheers.) Gentlemen, it is wonderful to see how very deli-
cate some of them are when they talk of Toryism. How they
paint it! It was only the other day that Dr. Blackburn was
saying, "the Tories contended for dOrnination, for ascendency,
for monopoly;" why, pray then, gentlemen, what are the
Whig councillors contending for?—(Cheers.) After blaming
the formercorporation for beings() exclusive, they themselves
have become also exclusive; and to the utmost of their power
they prevent anything like an independent man coming into
the corporation.—(Hear, hear.) I think Mr. Hornby said,
that the tories might now be called the liberal" party, be-
cause they were now liberal in abuse.. I think, gentlemen,
from what has occurred in this ward the liberals have cer-
tainly been plentiful of their abuse: but what meek, what
mild, what christian characters they are according to their own
accounts ; but what do we find them ?—(Hear, hear.) Why,
1 think, we find them quite the contrary.—(Cheers.) Gen-
tlemen, I am fearful I have trespassed lung upon your time
and attention.—(" No, no.") lam sorry, gentlemen. I have
been so long, but I trust you will bear with me. The day,
gentlemen, for talking is now almost past; the day for work-
ing is now approaching. Ido beseech every one of you, I
entreat every one of you, I conjure every one of you, it you
value the interests of your town, not only in this ward, hut
throughout the different wards, if possible, to return men who
will act independently, and who will sift corruption to the
very bottom.—(Great cheering.) At present there are but
few; and an independent man in the corporation has a great
deal to contend with; but I trust, if lam there, I shall not
fail to do my duty, and to express my sentiments in that
place.—(Hear, hear.) And I hope, gentlemen, in the other
wards they will return men who will come with a determina-
tion equally as fixed as myself, to do their duty in the town,
and to show up deceit and hypocrisy in their proper colours.
—(Great cheering.) Gentlemen, I have something to in-
form you of; and perhaps, gentlemen, you will be truly.
astonished and confounded at it. lam told that one of the
members of the town-council for this ward, Mr. Thornhill,
has threatened to resign if I amelected.—(Shouts of laughter,
and cries of "the sooner the better," "positively shocking,"
"horrid, horrid," and great merriment.) Pray, gentlemen,
who is this Mr. Thornhill? I have known him sometime,
and I have always thought him a living example of with how
little sense above a goose a man may be suffered to walk
abroad. He is, however, a harmless creature, without ca-
pacity to injure any of her Majest3's subjects but himself.
(Cheers and laughter.) This Mr. Thornhill was scarcely
known as a public character before he was allowed to walk in
the shadow of Mr. Ewart. ("Good-bye to him," and laugh-
ter.) I think we have had enough of Mr. Ewart—the re-
jected of Liverpool, the slighted of Kilkenny. the defeated
of Marylebone. (Cheers.) All my promises to him are now
quit. I felt pity for him and his family that they should
spend so much money, not one-tenth part of which ought to
have been spent in electioneering. But Mr. Thornhill was
allowed to attend him as a stool. I recollect once, Mr.
Sheridan, when there was a sudden change of ministry, hu-
mourously remarking that the minister had been in such a
hurry to retire that he had actually left his sitting part behind
him. Now Ido think that Mr. Thornhill was allowed as a
sort of stool for Mr. Ewart, on which he left his sitting part,.
(Cheers and lauubter.) I should not have noticed his pre-
sumption. in saying that if I was elected he should retire, but
from its absurdity, and because I have not the least doubt
that three-fourths of the town of Liverpool would be glad to
hear of it. If he be sincere, and you exert yourselves, there
will be one less to oppose in the council. (Hear.) Gen-
tlemen, I certainly do hope, that on Thursday morning every
one will be at his post. (Hear, hear.) We are certain of
success if you will do your duly; and if you do your duty be-
fore the election, he assured, gentlemen, I will do mine after
it is over. (Mr. Holmes sat down amidst loud and reiterated
cheering.)
A gentleman from the conservative association office ex-
pressed his hope that Mr. Holmes would be triumphant, and
was convinced if he was, that he would be a strict economist
and a useful member of the council.
Mr. CHAS. HILL stated that the constables of the market
were employed to carry out the canvassing notes of Mr.
Lacon, and that this disgraceful perversion of the services of
public officers, for party purposes, ought to he sought into.
Several other gentlemen addressed the meeting, a vote of
thanks was moved to the Chairman, for his services in the
chair, and the meeting broke up about half-past nine o'clock.