The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-04 00:00:00

•
The Lord CHANCELLOR replied—" I am nol
prepared to
go farther."
It having been agreed that the discussion on the measure
should be taken in committee, the bill was read a second
time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next.
Lord NORMANBY stated, in answer to a question From the
Bishop of Exeter, that Mr. Pare, the superintendent-
registrar of births, &c., at Birmingham, had . acted as vice-
president of a Socialist society from May 1838, to May, 1839,
but that since June last he had ceased to have any connexion
with the society. Lord Normanby, at the same tithe, at-
tempted a vindication of Mr. Pare, and of the doctrines of
the Socialists, which, though founded on the unexceptionable
testimony of Mr. Pare himself, was unmercifully exposed by
the Bishop of Exeter. .
. Lord. LON DON DEnttY . asked if the Ministers had any in-
formation respecting the military occupation of Minorca by
France,.or of the establishment there of naval and military
hospitals', .. , • , .. , .., . .
Lord MCLBOur.N.E, who Was- scarcely. audible in the gal-
lery, could give no information' on the subject, except that he.
understood they , were possessed of some small island off
Minorca, which was principally used as a depUt for coals.
- ' Lord RIPON wish&l.to know how long they had had oc-
cui)ation of that island ? - - .
•Lord CiatanNtioat said that some of the papers Were con-
fidential, but, as they had passed through his hands, he
could assure his noble friend that they were perfectly
satisfactory. So far as he (the Earl of Clarendon) was con
corned, he should be very glad that they should be produced.
Lord ,LYNDHurisT.—That Will be.the - better course, and
then we can judge for ourselves whether they are satisfac-
tory or not.

Lord COLCHESTER gave notice, that on Monday he will
move that all the papers connected with the subject be laid
upon the.table.

Lord LONDONDERRY gave notice, that on Tuesday se'n-
night he will move for copies of any communications that
may have passed between lf:• Majesty's Government and the
Spanish Government relative to the convention or Bergara.
The House adjourned till Monday.

• HOUSE OF COMMONS.—FRIDAY.
The House of Commons was almost exclusively occupied
with the adjourned debate on Sir John Y. Buller's motion.
It was begun by
Lord MonPF.TH, who misstated most materially, though
no doubt very ingeniously, the argument of his opponents,
as if their
.greatobEection, or, us he called it, their main
staple of attack against the government were, that it is sup-
ported by adherents who go further than the members of the
cabinet; whereas the real complaint is, that though the mem-
bers of the cabinet have now shown themselves prepared to
go to lengths which the respectable part of their adherents
have always reprobated, those adherents do nevertheless,
most inconsistently, continue to support them. He then
attempted a vindication of the principle of open questions,
and complimented the opposition on the talents they had
displayed for obstruction. He entered into various consider-
ations connected with 'lrish.. affairs ; and we can give no
clearer specimen of the,natore of his views on these subjects
than by recording that, after a large tribute to the abilities
and influence of Mr. O'Connell, the noble lord was actually
bold enough to say that those powers had, on the whole,
been exerted in favour of order ! He admitted that the
country required a strong government ; but when the oppo-
sition called on the ministry to make way for themselves, he
must ask What means had that party for forming a govern-
ment likely to be strong ! It was a party of which the mem-
bers differs from each other on a variety of most important
points—on the Roman Catholic bill, on Irish education, even
on corn laws. Since the first notice of this motion there
had been an appeal to several constituencies, and they had
all returned a verdict in favour of the government. Lord
Morpeth seemed to forget that, except in one case, the con-
stituencies which had given this verdict were all selected by
ministers themselves as being the most likely to return whig
members.' On the other hand, at Beverley, where the vacancy
was matte by the conservatives, a conservative was elected :
and in the instance of Denbighshire (the only case of vacancy
which, happening by death, was independent of arrangement
on either side) the freeholders supported a conservative with
so strong a hand, that his opponent did not venture to abide
the poll. Lord Morpeth conchlded with a few set sentences,
in which he told the tories to go on as they had begun, and
rekindle the fires of former bigotry, while the whigs would
rely on the returning sense of the people. (Is not that word
" returning" strangely pregnant with the confession of con-
fidence departed ?}
Mr. Serjeant JACKSON answered this speech with great
vigour. He explained the causes to which the present com-
parative tranquillity was owing. He.inveighed with just in-
dignation against the pusillanimous conduct of ministers to-
wards the member for Dublin, who would be guilty of high
treason should he take a single step towards' the p: actical ex-
ecution of any one of his own seditious doctrines. The
learned Sergeant denied that the Roman Catholics, of whose
physical three the agitator was accustomed to talk so largely,
were available to any stich extent for the purposes of insur-
rection : for, to his own knowledge, a large proportion of the
Roman Catholic body were as sound and loyal as any class of
people in the world, and firmly determined to preserve the
connexion of the two countries.
Mr. C. WOOD said that he left office on the same grounds
which had been stated on Wednesday night by Lord Howick.
He explained that one of the eight officers, supposed by Sir
James Graham to have been promoted in consequence of
their having stood contested elections at the last dissolution,
had been, in fact, promoted.. several months before the
contest. Mr Wood vindicated some other of the naval appoint-
ments to which Sir James Graham had objected, and Sir C.
ADAM followed to the same effect.
Mr. MACLEAN, from the Conservative side of the house,
spoke at length against the foreign policy of ministers ; and
then •
Mr. O'CoNNELL rose, and delivered his usual quarterly
speech upon Irish affairs. Beginning with himself, he stated
that the office of Chief Baron in Ireland had 'indeed been
offered to him. but that was when, for a while, he had laid
repeal aside. He had refused the offer, in the fear that he
might be tempted to deviate from the impartiality which a
judge ought ever to observe. A party now sought to take
the places of the ministers; and what were the principles of
that party ? Much had been heard of disturbances through-
out England and Wales, but that party had suggested no
remedy for them. What would they do ! Would they re-
lease Thorogood, and relieve the dissenters from church-
rates? Did they think to prosper by holding out the imnuAta-.
ability of the corn laws ? Did they offer any hope-trde-
parture from their doctrine of finality in matters of reform !
The operatives were loudly reminding the legislature that
this doctrine had already produced the most disastrous dis-
affection. • He then proceeded to the subject of Ireland, which
Tinder a Tory government -could be ruled, he said; only by
force ; and gave his usual passage about " centuries of op-
pression," with this variation, that he this night took credit
for only six instead of seven. He boasted of her present
tranquility, and of her temperance societies. He complained
of the attacks which had been made on the Roman Catholic
religion and clergy, in newspapers, in sermons, and in
speeches, particularly by Mr. Bradshaw. It was against
such men as this that he had said he would bring 500,000
fighting men into the field: He finished with repeal, justice
to Ireland, and a general flourish about his ancestors and
himself.
Mr. Bit.tosnAw said a few words from under the gallery,
which were not audible at the distance of 20 feet from him.

Sir R. PEEL said, he felt that no gentleman in the house,
however tired he Might be of this protracted discussion, and
however anxious to bring the debate to a conclusion, would
not admit that, considering the nature of the motion, and
considering the position in which he stood, he was almost
entitled to claim the indulgence of the house. (Hear, hear.)
He was . confident, moreover, if he must detail his opinions
on many of the facts, and if he must vindicate himself from
some accusations, he was confident that, considering the pro-
minent place he had been made to occupy throughout this
discussion, he should not be charged with silly vanity or need-
less egotism. (Hear, hear.) Two demands had been made
on the opposite side in the course of the discussion. One of
them, which was made with perfect justice, was, that those
who withdrew their confidence from the present Government
should specify the grounds of their refusal.
.The other de-
mand was, that those who, from their position, might be re-
garded as the probable successors of the present Government
in the event of its dissolution, should state on what grounds
of public policy they proposed to conduct the affairs of the
country. (Hear, hear.) • The absolute justice of the first de-
mand he admitted ; he felt that it was incumbent upon him
to specify the grounds on which he withheld his confidence
from the present Government. The other demand, that he
should explain or detail his own views of public policy, he
did not consider equally obligatory on him, but it was a de-
mand which he felt to •be reasonable and politic to accede to.
He knew too well the little value to be placed on professions ;
he had seen too much of magnifiCent promises out of office,
and of meagre performances in office (hear, hear;) he had
too much experience of solemn eugagemenfs entered into for
the purpose of turning out a Government violated when that
object was attained. He had little desire to benefit himself
by this practice; he had little desire to employ conciliatory
speeches in order to gain the good-will of the other side'of the
house ; but .he did rejoice at an opportunity of fully and freely
explaining himself. Heiproceeded in the first instance to a
compliance with the 'first demand—namely, to specify the
ground upon which, with perfect cordiality, he gave his vote
in favour of the motion of his lion. friend, and recorded his
denial of confidence in the present Government. He with-
held his confidence from them on every ground upon which
confidence was to be given (hear, hear); ie withheld his con-
fidence from them from the results of their public policy ; he
withheld his confidence from them on their own confession
of their. incapacity (hear, hear); he withheld his confidence
from them on the testimony of their, most valued friends ; he
withheld his confidence from them on account of the consti-
tutional grounds and public principles which they had been
forced to :avow in order to maintain their station. He
would consider first the results of their government, and he
should
the results
of compare them. not with any remote period, not with
Conservative policy—he should compare them
with the results of a period with which the present Ministers
must be famillia,l, from the recollection of events in which they
had a share, and
had carried through the Reform
from respect towards one by whose counsels'
they 'professed hint the men under whom they
and Lord Grey Bill retired from office,
of the conditiolgiaYe3 on his retiring from office, an account
them compare themt which he left . the Government. Let
results of their estimony of Lord Grey in 1834 with the
R.
Peel)
found policytike and with the state in which he (Sir
about to record his country on the day upon which he was
Lord Grey
said, on the 9th of
the internal state of the c July,. 1834, "With respect to
every particular—.
with respect
mark the contrast in
respect to the internal state of the
country. let it be borne in
proved circumstances : iind that we now. leave it in im-
proved the snanufacturer:trade in a sound and healthy condi-
tion,improved, the revenue generallygreatly
stir-le:sing, and all interests in
and even the depression of that helxstereePstti°l—wj'riculture ;
tenantry than the landlords, who will be called
less affects the
on for a
re-
duction of rents, to which they must submit. Political and
trades'. unions have disappeared, and without the application
of any extraordinary powers on the, part of government. we
have .exerted the ordinary powers of the law with a firma
hand, and the result has been successeeho (Hear, hear.)
Such was the testimony borne by Lord Grey, and such the
results of the administration .of the government of that noble
lord, in which his noble friend the member for North Lan-
cashire, .and his .right, hon. friend the member for Pem-
broke, had taken a part. Since then the present government
had loul smliroited control,
except for a period of three or
.
four months, over .the affairs of this country. He called
upon them to render an account of. their stewardship, and
to tell him whose fault it was that this country now presented
such a contrast as it did to that of 183:1• (Hear, hear.) They
told him that since
then they had effected great
sures, that reform ' that no obstruction
leel is ~, .een stock:,
had been
it r
-0 cont progressive,
march of their pro-
gressive improv control the steady _
trade in 1840
etnents. How came it then thae
should be in an I.lllBoUnand unhealthy
condition ; that public
credit, instead of i ' unsound
d nd
that for uionths ())elingirn proved should have deteriorate , a
discount? Agrieuklrt;Publie securities should have been at a
took credit for that i'lli.e knd
indeed improved. Perhaps they
to their manly and coiTsris°teernent, and considered that it was
But how happened it if Lord a'urse it was to he attribnted.
extin-
guishing political unions, and
by had succeeded in
laws had suppressed the spirit oyf adi firm administration of the
if his efforts had been attended witrcrder—how happened it,
the present. Government had proceeded,ornplete sucess, and if
did, in a course of useful reform to anextent as they said they.
former Government had gone, and which could
to which no.
been anticipated—answer him the . question, to
not have
to what „„,, it
owing that this country was now convulsed with political--ii,order,. that the spirit of insubordination was spreadin -
rebellion and insurrection rearing their heads throughout and
land? (Cheers.) To what (said the right hon.• batnthe
since the period to which I have referred have the principlest
which you profess respecting the constitution of the Govern.
meat tended to lead ? The noble lord the member for Nor-