The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-03-11 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

IDarlfainent.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.—The Bishop of EXETER gave no-
tice that he would on Tuesday, the 15th instant, move fora
select committee to inquire into the operation of the present
national system of education in Ireland.
ORANGE LODGES.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY prefaced his motion on this
subject by detailing at great length his connexion with Colonel
Fairinan. Lord Melbourne had said, in an off-hand manner,
that he, the Marquis, had not been attacked. But he had been
attacked—violently and coarsely attaoked—and he had a right
to defend himself? He was as ignorant of the existence of
armed institutions or their proceedings as Lord Melbourne
could be. At first he was disposed to take no notice 'of what
such men as Mr.' Hume and Mr. O'Connell might think proper
to say of him; but when he recollected the numbers who were
deluued by those persons he could not be silent. After alluding
to the two letters which he had received from Col. Fairman, and
his own answers to them, the noble lord observed that to his know-
ledge he had never even seen Col. Fairman in the whole course
of his life; he also complained of the variations and interpola-
tions in the published accounts of those letters, and named no
less than twenty-two differences between them and the originals.
Heareatedthe charge of wishing to alter the succession with
Contempt, and asked the house what they could think of the
man who, gettiug those private letters into his possession, could
make use of them for. such a purpose? He believed that 'the
attacks made upon noble lords on his side of the house was very
much mixed up with the attacks or Mr. O'Connell upon all their
lordships. He was sure that if Lord Melbourne could clear
himself from aiding and abetting these attacks he would be
very glad to do so. 'lf these attacks were not stopped they
would lead to that sort of decided union in Ireland which, he
believed in his conscience was necessary, or Ireland would be
lost to the British crown. (Hear.) The noble lord had put
down , orange lodges; would he—DARE HE use the power he
possessed to put down radicalism? Let.him but say so, and 'it
would give immense satisfaction. The noble lord concluded by
moving that a message be sent to the House of Commons le-
questing a copy of the report on orange lodges.
Lord MELBOURNE had no objection, as it was his wish to give
the fullest information, to the production of the papers. After
defending the Irish government, and denying. on his own part,
and on that of the Lord Lieutenant, any wish to fix a stigma
upon the character of orangemen, he concluded by hoping
that that debate would terminate the distressing and painful
subject to which their attention• had been directed.
At the close of a long dismissidn the motion was agreed to.—
Adjourned.
HOUSE OF COMMONS, MONDAY.
A great number of petitions were presented to the house,
among them one from the manufacturers of tobacco, coMplain-
ing of the excise regulations and restrictions with respect to
that important article.
IDtl'eisoNssENT FOR DEBT.—In answer to a question from
Mr. Hawes, the Attorney-General said that a noble friend
of his had intended to introduce a bill for abolishing imprison-
ment for debt, to the notice of the other house if he had not
been prevented from doing so. He, hoped, however, that it
would be brought forward in that house, as it wasa;leemed by the
friends of that measure the most'advantageous course. If that
course were not pursued he... Would again bring forward a bill in
the House of Commons, for his-opinions were_. inure confirmed
as to the justice and.expediency of the proposed alteration.
MUNICIPAL couP.oltATloNs (titELANn) RILL.
Lord Jour/ Russati., moved "the order of the day, that the
house do then resolve itself into a committee on the•hill.
Lord FRANCIS EcsatroN. then brought forward his motion
for an instruction to thacounnittee. • He agreed with the gen-
tleman who had brought. forward this measure, thattahe ,corpo-
rations of Ireland had failed tot any good sedial purpose, wiser
ther for original intention ~orflisual -adeptiohloand,- whatever
might be his abstract reveirente for prescription or antiquity,
he was prepared to relie've them from a burden- of weak and
painful existence,. withoutoreferenee to the particular quarter
from which their fall inightiiitheereti, or 'to the parties- who
might follow them with.luinenhaiitnis tethe. grave, -he joiced iii
removing those abodes ofnilegetiteitilosinnt*ahnsiel!and it was
only when it was proposed teinrildairjoultitivtainsilitit he paused
to question the necessity, audit() exam*nt,ttst Probable results
of the re-constructing provisions of. the The right lion.
gentleman had asked would the house, hating passed a muni-
cipal bill for England and Scotland, refuse one to Ireland on
similar principles?
..His answer, if he could answer for the
house, would be goyerned!hy asdelinition of their expression of
similar principles. When iw t aS'sfiewn that the ends proposed
by the bill could be obtained by,popular election in I•reland as
well as in England he would agree to support it. He denied
that in substituting abolition fair the restpration proposed, he
withheld from Ireland the benefits which were intended to other
parts of the empire. This was the sum and substance of an
argument well calculated to dazzle by its specious lustre, to, at-
tract by its seductive generality, and to blind them to conse-
quences which, however, matters of detail required no microscope
to detect. Those who boasted of a pride in their country and
a love for the land that reared them would listen with distaste
to what he had to say, but he should indeed be unfortunate in
the choice of his expressions if they should discern in them
any disposition to indulge, either as an Englishman or a pro-
testant, in any offensive assumption of superiority; but he
should wander into another extreme of base, servile, and insin-
cere flattery, if he said there was nothing in the situation of
that country, in the state of its society, which distinguished it
from England and other nations, and which may, in special
cases, make it an unfit recipient for institutions which are not
in themselves essential to good governinents, and which are
only valuable as the machinery for that purpose. If this were
insult to Ireland, he could only say, believing it to be the truth,
be conceived he should be insulting the good sense of Irishmen
if he did suppress that conviction. When he saw in Ireland
numbers arrayed against property, a minority, powerful in
wealth and intelligence, vpposed to a majority . unpossessed of
these materials, he sal a sad distinction -between Zogland and
Ireland which bore diraptly on the question at issue—the mode
by which they Afield regulate the administration of the law,
and the protection of property of those who live under it. Af-
ter some other observations on the state of Ireland, Lord Fran-
cis said, "Is Ireland the country I have described, or is it not?
If Ireland be not that country, if I as an Englishmen miscon-
ceive its situation, and speak of evils which do not there exist,
then I say to the gentlemen of that land who hear me, Your
countrymen misrepresent you, tourists and professional opinions
are unfaithful guides, your own daily press is not the mirror of
things that are; there the reports of evidence before Irish, and
Orange, and intimidation committees, are the creations of mere
delusion, those who gave it'were falsifiers, and those who listen-
ed to it were dupes. If Ireland be not that country, the speech
which we heard the other night, when this house rung with
applause of the sentiments and language of the noble lord, was
thrown away: the oil he then attempted to pour was wasted on
a waveless surface. What was it which drew that applause from
those who s,dtloni unite to praise or to condemn ? Was it not
that this house, a,nd all parties in it, felt that the first duty he
could peilord,llli fairest prize he could win, was that ot, ap-
peasing the, PisOons ; that we felt that there were these passions
to appease, thiati there was a strife to terminate, and it was for
this weldbe,' hint the honours of victory, beCause he claimedthenti'WWWOtit the evidence of triumph ? In the (TO of the
refOrfir) )111' souse may have thought that there were reasons
WhichlbAgid its;e ld xte9Sitin to Ireland; but none could have failed
to perceiVelliiitioolY n
'that extension must there have beets
felt, even ifil4 SsarY; as an insult and an injury, and that hardly
any N reasiniuld have been alleged against it which would
,n.nit,
haar'O'kefie-all the length of despotism. ott had no choice sin
that case between the perpetuation of all the abuses so called,
whichAnii. 44 agreed to sweep into schedule A in England, and,
a simitalt measure Of reconstruction ; for you could not, you never
proposed to leave Ireland without a representation. toes that
necessity existhere ? Is corporate jurisdiction any part of the
essence of our constitution ? Does our elective magistracy rank
with trial by jury, the tree and fair representation of the people,
in parliament ? If it tie essential in theory or in practice, how
has Manchester, how has Birmingham, pursued with their
crowded populations the arts of industry ? Why should election
be confined to those communities where its success and its con-
sequences more immediately rouses the elements of local strifes,
and is adverse to the social charities ? Why does it not extend
to the rural districts? And these considerations bring me to
the subject of the Irish constabulary hill. What are the provi-
sions of that bill, and their object ? They deal with one of the
most important objects connected with the peace of Ireland—
the appointment as well as the regulation of an armed police of
some 5000 men. That appointinent now resides with the gen-
tlemen of the country, the body of magistracy—a body whose
interest in the peace of that society is undonbted, appointed by.
the King's commission, watched by the chancellor. Do they
leave this power of appointing the pollee in the hands of the
body ? They remove it—to what ?--to a magistracy elected on.
any popular principle, however restricted ? No ; they transfer
that power to the Lord Lieutenant. In my opinion they do
wisely, and that opinion with me is not new. I thought so in
1830. and I think so still. In 1830 I thought that it would he.
advisable to transfer to the responsible representative of the
King in Ireland, to one who was placed above the atmosphere
of local partialities and influences, these appointments. It !soot
for me to show that circumstances have arisen since that period
not to justify my views, but to convert their opponents; but in
the case of those who then opposed my views and those of my
right hon. friend, I am boUnd to presume that .such circum-
stntice.s have arisen, fort do not attribute to my right hon. friends
Opposite any.juvf na.ltry and mere party motives in this 'natter.
Lord riairciVregdilY gave his right hon. friend credit for some-
thing more staleintanlike in'his views than a mere paltry, party
reference to the'findividuals in or out of power; but he had a
right to infer that the state of Ireland was altered for the better
since he was officially connected with its affairs, or that its con-
dition has assimilated to that of England- in those better , fea-
tures of order and tranquility; and when his friend joinaktha
g, eneralizirig cry for identity of InStilntic his in all particulars,
lie had a right to ask him if he was prepared to part With insti,
tutions in Ireland, which in themselves illustrate the strong
practical distinction existing between the two countries, The
constabulary bill of this year is of itself an answer to, the Oa-
monr raised for an identity of institutions. He did not .ask,
" will you bear the same burdens—will you, on the part of Ire-
land, make the same contributions to the Exchequer ?" but he
asked, " Will you abandon the assistant barristers' jurisdic-
tion ? Is there anything like that jurisdiction in England ? Is
there a dissentient voice as to its value and its merit in Ireland ?
That court is one of the instances which prove in itself the im-
possibility of applying identical institutions to the two countries.
I'he law of England it administers, but there is nothing in
practice more differing in the cases of England and Scotland
than there is in this between England and Ireland ; and what
are you about with the law? Are yon moulding it to the prac-
tice of England ? Are you gradually confining its operations?
Are you compelling the assistant barrister tp empanel a jury
where you now only give him a power to do it, which he rarely,
ifever, exercises? If you are so employed, I believe you will
create great dissatisfaction in Ireland? I believe you will have
an insurrection of suitors, who prefer for the.settlernent Of their
civil causes the fiat of a lawyer appointed by the crown to the
verdict of their neighbours. But I am happy to think ytu are
not. At this very moment an hon. and. learned member is re-
viewing a bill of last session to extend the operations of the sys-
tem, to make the administration of civil justice in Ireland
less like England, and, with this bill and that of the Irish con

stituency staring me in the face, you tell me that the two coun-
tries must have, not equal justice, but the same institutions."
(Cheers.) In introducing the details of the proposed altera-
tions to be made in the bill when in committee, the noble lord
said, " It now only remains for me briefly to touch upon that
branch of the subject, into the details of which this, perhaps,
is not the time to enter ; but when I lay before the house a pro-
position which, if it succeed, would render nugatory the propo-
sitions of the government, it would hardly be respectful to them
Or to the house to omit all statement of the mode in which those
with whom I act would be disposed to supply the deficiencies
we should then create. I confess I see none of the difficulties
connected with this branch of the subject which so frequently
attend legislative changes of extensive application. The classi-
fication of the various objects which have hitherto been sought
or obtained by the institution of corporate government is a
simple and ottvious. one. I exclude on this occasion the con-
sideration of the political and party purposes contemplated by
theit Original framers, or those to which they have been since
diverted.. Into the conflicting theories on these subjects I do
not' :'slropnse to enter; it i 4 sufficient for me, without either
pro,Vog the existt.ice of those purposes, or.entering into their
jusfitkation ccademnation; to feel that thuse puipoies are
ocaon)(er to be attained in favour of of patty, and ought not to
be sought in-fervour of anothei. The real and natural objects

of corporate government appear to me to be these :—The admi-
nistration of justice—the coutroul and direction of that police
force, whatever it may be—to which the protection of the person
and the property is confided; the administration of corporate
property, and the regulation of those other not unimportant
matters which concern the health, the comfort, and theconveni-
ence of the community, the lighting, the paving, the draining, &c.
For the due regulation of these, it appears to me that the ex-
tinction of corporate authority will not create the smallest diffi-
culty. By the attainment of some, it appears to me that in
Ireland that extinction will afford a favourable opportunity and•
direct assistance. I propose too that those towns and cities,
now counties, should remain counties of towns and cities; that
they should, as now, have their sheriff, but that that sheriff
should be appointed by the crown, as the county sheriff is at
present. To that officer, so deriving his functions, the grand
and petty juries will continue to be summoned. The other
cities and towns will be subject to the jurisdiction of magi-
strates appointed by the crown, and under the county sheriff
and_the ordinary judicial authorities. As to the corporate pt.&
perty, it appears to my right hon. friend and myself, that, for
the present, it would be expedient to vest it in a commission, to
be appointed by the crown, to be considered as a temporary ar-
rangement, and with a view of appropriating, under the sanc-
tion of parliament, the corporate funds of each town possessing
corporate property to its municipal purposes. The mention of
this brauch of the subject brings under consideration one item
of that property which I think well deserves a separate consi-
deration and special provisions. I allude to corporate tolls. I
am not aware that the attention of the reformed parliament has
been specifically called to that great subject, theleattires of
which it is Unnecessary to Irish•inombers to particularize, but I
would. implore those gentlemen from
.England, who have no
experience of.that systein, to give their attention to the report
ofone committee of inquiry, which-did not, I believe take evi-
dence, and, to the evidence which was taken by another, and I
"think ihey; will agreecwith me, that no greater silbstaetial be_
tne4traestict,be conferred,on any community in Ireland than .the
removal of this exaction from its industry—than the stifling of
this phiennialiource or personal violence', perjury, and violation
of the law,? and also protect the person ,and secure the rights• of
property. I believe that. this wretched mode of exaction—one
whielflYrChirdneted with decency, is not inconvenient of appli-
ssitionpava notopposed to the ficile interchange of the articles
of-daily subsistence—has proved a sure source of the revenue
Iwhit,l6:l6'iiiaccrue to corporate towns, and of which I am not
'aware it is proposed to deprive them under the present bill. I
believe that resistance to those corporate tolls in every possi-
ble shape of violence and evasion has become habitual, and that
party spirit has, as usual in Ireland, lent its adventitious aid in
their case to the natural impatience of a confined, anomalous,
and I may say impracticable systein of pecuniary imposition.
I have not looked upon this subject as some for whom I have
much-respect have frequently, looked upon it—in that sepa-
rate point of view which confines itself to considerations of
religious difference. That danger to protestant institutions
should he anticipated from any measure which opens new fields
to'political agitation,l for one cannot hut anticipate and appre-
hend; but I know that religious seal maybe prone to aggravate
those dangers. It is not essential to the realization of every
evil which I dread, as contingent upon this measure, that party
difference should either universally or generally take a sectarian
turn. It is sufficient for my argument if the inquisition into
political, and not into religious creeds should invariably assist
the candidate for muncipal office, and protestant tests on the
other. I have said nothing to arouse the excited fears, or exag-
gerate the apprehensions of Irish protestants; but if those fears
-are excited, and if they can be soothed without a sacrifice, 1 am
satisfied that his Majesty's government will not at least think
that a reason for persevering in the measure which excites, or
against adopting a course which may remove, them. There
may be those, not in these walls I trust, who would see these
fears with satisfaction, who would chafe on being checked in
their progress to wlitat they conceive a triumph. Such I would
implore to call up more generous feelings to, their aid, to consi-
der the condition of their country, to look beyond the gratifica-
tion of the moment, to reject the barren laurels of petty election
triumphs, and seek for the better reward which attends the sacri-
fice of long cherished feelings of hatred and displeasure. To
you who legislate I would say—for the peace of your coun-
try, for the stability of your empire, beware how you unneces-
sarily irritate the protestant mind of Ireland. You have
interposed the resolutions of your parliament and the paternal
advice of the Sovereign to exhort, to caution, to restrain. 'That
call ,has been answered as it deserved and you had a right to
expect; beware how you do that which may mar the best results
of your efforts—beware lest indirectly by your present measures,
by substituting a new exclusion for that you destroy, by giving
a legal sanction to change, a perverted triumph to party, you
make martyrs of those from whose hands you have struck the
weapons of exclusion, and convert what you allege to have been
an intolerant faction into a proscribed and persecuted sect. The
noble lord, who was loudly cheered in the course of his speech,
concluded by thanking the house for the patient attention with
which they had listened to the observations he had felt it his
duty to urge on the present occasion, and by moving that the
committee on the bill for the regulation of municipal corpora-
tions in Ireland be empowered to make provisions for the aboli-
tion of such corporations, and for such arrangements as may be
necessary on their abolition for securing the efficient and im-
partial administration, and the peace and good government of
cities and towns in Ireland. (Cheers.)
Sergeant Issseitoy, in seconding the motion, declared his
inability to discover what the principle of the bill was. The
inquisitors, or, if it were thought more courteous, the commis-
sioners, had visited 117 places. Of those 117 boroughs 67 had
been selected and included in the measure of last year, and
upon what. principle the remainder hail been excluded he had
yet to learn; for it had not been stated why they should be left
to wallow in all the abomination amid abuse which was stated to
exist without any effort being made towards their purification
and improvement. He begged to ask his learned friend, the
Attorney-General for Ireland, upon what principle the 67
boroughs named in the bill of last year had. in the bill of the
t o of
show, impr ovem
from e
present year, been reduced to 51, for hitherto he had not ex.
plained why the 13 omitted boroughs were thus disregarded in
separate
(Hear,
consideration hear. !Sl
ofr.
Litriesfro.vr generalthen proceeded measure
antp
every case, that government bad acted most inconsistently, and
to the entire rejection of all principle. He apprehended that
the great majority of electors, in the new boroughs, would be
£5 householders, and it was superfluous to argue that this ma-
jority unquestionably would be of one religion—a religion op-
posed to the present exclusive possessors of corporate power.
Coutd•the house, then, doubt, with all the soreness and bitter-
n4ss which had been created by the exclusive system, that they
would create another equally exclusive in its nature, character,
and effects? If the catholics were not now satisfied with the
administration of justice by protestant possessors of corporate
power. would the protestants be satisfied with its administration
by an equally exclusive sect? If this bill were carried, Ireland
would be studded with 5I rendezvous fur every species of agita-
tionOrhere edicts would be framed and sent. forth to the world
WheineVei
,might be thouglit At to excite, agitation on any
sill ect, ok,LiigAyst.Any ii,. i of property whatsOever. (Cheers.)
The doininien,e,i4oence the? gained. by,thest popular -as-
semblies wouf gpidnr, it" Pofit'We kAtithef..the.lsttroounding
population shm ehljnitSgilt,9sigr Atitt4ctionntth.ostsriosporate
l; od iea".;;;, The pimp 1,449
irtMt 'be 'endangered,
and danger vvOillill,49ll ape to tilqjvrtlctle cal it,
Perfor the repre-
sentation of Irelaa woufd'be fixed and ritetted in such a:state
and condition at it would be utterly imp 44
yeifor any admi-
nistrrtion tis'earriAifichciverninent in this awyithout Leing
the tools and sfaißiortfie majority of tr.* Ineilibers.
(Hear, The'.l;efiiiied gentleman's speech ;gas, of consi_
dirable' lehidenclinted by, calling upon .governmentCc fbeegri thaltaFfot the' niaaidte which contemplated the re-
construction of Irish corporations.
Lord-Nottesta contended that it would be an insult to Ire-
land to refuse her a measure of justice which had been granted
to Englaud.and-Seutland.
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON and Sir H. HARDINGE supported the
instruction to the committee, maintaining that the bit' as at pre-
sent framed would be ruinous to the tranquillity and prosperity
of Ireland.

Mr. Sergeant WOULFE and Lord How icx spoke in favour of
the bill, insisting that it was the just and necessary consequence
of the reform bill.—The debate was adjourned to the next day.
The Stafford disfranchisement bill was read in a committee of
the house.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TUESDAY.
The private bills before the house were forwarded aitage.
Petitions against the probate clause of the ecclesiastical
courts' bill were presented from several places.
Lord As tiatiazuN presented a petition from Montreal against
any alteration in.the timber duties.
ECCLESIASTICAL LzAsiss.—This bill, on the motion of the
Archbishop of CANT,attauaN, was read a second time.
SLAVES' COMPENSATION. A1A,!...—0n the motion of Lord
• GLENEIA the slaves' cortipoOtion acts amendment bill was
read a second time aftet'a',few,wp*in explanation of its ob-
ject.—To be committed'ofiThiirtlay,.',
SPANISH Ave .LONDONDERRY rose
and begged the nolAleir,i,tiki4untS attention to what he was about
to state. He was':fforeiliitsedvVith the correspondence which
had been produced, nor did he think it was in accordance with
the terms of his.tnotiOnr-hTealluded to-ithe correspondence for
which he had sons rinteutiro mcilkitli'thititive to the detention of
the•twenty-seven r aelist pristiri4iST.9"7w; in 'the return, an
answerer Mr, Villiers to Lorpraltri !Stun, of the 18th of
August, had not been iuelutled. ahkiver had been referred
to in one of the 'papere (./gto:Wrir'No.,s"YriLow upon the table, in
connexion with the subjecf.'"He toil Londonderry) wished
to know iv,ll.t had become deithese ,fwetity-seven prisoners, for
they badabeen, he'iunderstood, removed • front Cadiz, having
been sent thither from 'St. Sebastian. He took a deep interest
in this question, and he considered himself bound to proceed
further in the matter. When, the answer of Mr. Villiers was
produced he should call the attention of tbeirjorthihips-to the
subject.
Viscount MELBOURNE stated that every thing had been pro-
duced in the foreign office for which notice had been given.
With respect to the removal of the twenty-seven prisoners, he
had.onlv to observe that they had been removed for the sake of
personal security, and in order that they might be kept free from
those depredations which prevailed in the north of Spain. In
the first place; these prisoners bad been removed from Santan-
clar to St. Sebastian, thence to Cadiz, and from Cadiz to Porto
Bice, the ground of each removal being the security of the pri-
soners themselves._

The Marquis of LONDON DERRY still maintained that the re-
ply of Mr. Villiers was requisite, in order to see all the bearings
of the case.

WEST INDIA 'JUSTICE BILL—Lord GLENELG gave. notice
that on Thursday he should move the second reading of the bill
for the better administration of justice in the West Indies.
Adjourned till Thursday.

The Newcastle and North Shields railway bill was read a
second time.

KISH MUNICIPAL CORPORATI'ONS' BILL-ADJOURNED DEBATE,

-----
Mr. S. O'BRIEN protested strongly against the amendment
of Lord Francis Egerton, as calculated to produce the most
fatal consequences to the peace of Ireland. He instanced the
cases of Limerick and Ennis, to prove the mal-administration
which exists under the present system, and claimed for the
catholics of that country an equal participaiion with English-
men. in all the rights and privileges of the British constitution.
Mr. RANDALL PLUNKETT spoke at some length. The divi-
sion on the present motion would, he feared, furnish occasion to
the member for Dublin, on his return to Ireland, whither, he
had no doubt, be would shortly be sent shorn of those honours
which attended him on a former occasion, to light up bonfires
from the Giant's Causeway to Cape Clear, as tokens of rejoic-
ing on the aproaching destruction of the municipal corpora-
tions of that country. The chief secretary for Ireland had said
that there were Orangemen in that house, although there were
po Ribandmen. He would reverse the position, and say that
there were no Orangemen in the house, but there might be,
for aught he knew, Ribandmen. (Order !)
Mr. PLUNKET commented at some length on the charges
brought by the municipal commissioners against the corporation
of Drogheda and warned the house to proceed cautiously in a
measure founded upon a report prepared iu a great haste and
full of inaccuracies.

Mr. W. V. STUART expressed; on the part of himself and his
donstitn,ents; their gratitude to goverment for the measure; and
instanced the great power of -M r. O'Connell as one of the eir•
cumstances, which ought to• bring over the opponents of the
Measure toltOupport, as it would have a tendency to counteract
the.influence 'of an individual. •'' • r •

241% GALL? KNIGHT could not give. his assent to the bill LlD-
less some serious alteratiohs were made is it. The existing

ferments, far from being calmed, would be increased by such a
measure, which would- have the effect of erecting and. setting►
fire to 120 political furnaces. He hoped the house knew how to
deal with arguments of intimidation,
Mr. MORGAN and JOHN O'CONNELL followed on the same
side.

Mr. TENNENT protested against the measure, as not only in-
jurious ao Ireland, but to British interests generally, by the effect
it would have upon the elections.
Mr. BARON said, that the only way to preserve the peace of
Ireland was to pass the bill.
Mr. CLAY deprecated the constant reference to Mr. O'Con-
nell's name on all questions connected with Ireland. He
thought it would be more becoming in the house to act as if that
gentleman had never existed.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM in supporting the motion for an instruc-
tion to the cominittee, justified the allusion to O'Connell's 'name
in that house. That learned member occupied so large a space
in the eyes of the country—he was so intimately connected with
the present state' of Ireland, and with its future government,
that it was impossible frankly and impartially—and in no other
manner was it consistent with the dignity of that house that a
subject should be discussed—he would say it was impossible to
deal with questions relating to Ireland, without adverting to the
principles put forth, and the conduct adopted by the member for
Dublin. He therefore claimed for himself the privilege of
using his name and referring to his conduct, both as regarded
what he had said and what lie had done. There existed a state
of things in Ireland to be found in no other country in the world.
History and eXperience afforded no light to guide legislation
for Ireland; the: question. must therefore be dealt with in a
statesmanlike manner, in ' order to meet the peculiar circum-
stances of the case,- Mr. Sergeant Woulfe had contended on
the previous night; that the municipal bill having worked well
in England, will work equally well in Ireland; on this point
there was to be no deliberation. Now he (Sir James) must
contend- that this position was one which was degrading th
science of government, where. prudence, quick perceptie,
sound judgment, decision in choosing between various difficul
ties, and yourageaii adhering to a right choice, when made were
alike re.quireth,—(cheers from the ministerial benches)—aud he
would add, in answer to that cheer, the magnanimity to recede
from a partictilaicourse, when the adoption of that course must
be fatal. Because the poor law bill had succeeded in England,
he would ask the Chancellor of the' Exchequer whether it fol-
lowed that the same -system was applicable to Ireland ? He
used this argumentin illustration of the point for which he con-
tended; and he called
.upon his Majesty's government to be
consistent, at least in the doctrine, that because in one case a
certain line of action. might be good, it must be good in another,
without reference to circumstances. This was the doctrine of
those 'who, in medicine, were styled empirics ; in politics
it was the doctrine of quacks and impostors. Sir James
concluded a very long and powerful speech, of which we
have not space for even an outline, 'as follows :—The
hon. and learned member for Tipperary, the other evening,
in a speech of great.. eloquence and much splendour, had, as
usual, terminated his address with that pointed remark, " Re-
member, we are seven millions, and this measure must and
shall be carried:" That had ;;rated -somewhat harshly on hi s
(Sir J. Graham's) ea-es—it had sounded like a prelude to that
which he most deprecated. He should be sorry to meet me.
trance by menance•' yet it must be remembered that the pro-
testints, not only of England and Scotland, but of Ireland also,
had recently strengthened their position; that, in compliance
with the desire of the house, and, in obedience to the will of
his Majesty, they had laid aside their secret symbols, their
signs, their empty pageantry, and their exclusive societies; that
they stood a united body, firmly determined manfully to defend
the protestant establishment as by law fixed in these countries,
and, as he confessed to him, by a higher sanction. " But, sir,"
continued the right hon. baronet, " I will not, I have said,
repel that threat of force by a similar threat. I will not look
forward to the history of the future. I will rather refer to the
history of the past. I will ask, whether it can be forgotten that
in the first dawn of the reformation, under the wise government
of Elizabeth, we rescued even protestant strangers from the
tyranny of Alva, from the cruelty of Don John of Austria, and
from the yoke of the Spanish power—that we assisted in laying
the foundation of a small but flourishing Commonwealth, the
offspring of industry and freedom, and of the first triumph of
the House of Ness-au under Catholic bigotry? Must it be
forgotten that we braved the power of Spain, and risked the
safety of the British Isles in defence of the Huguenots of
France'' We were then a small divided people, we are now a
mighty nation; it was then our glory that we were the defenders
and support of the protestants throughout Europe, and shall it
be said in these later days, that we, whom France could not
vanquish, whom Spain could not overcome, shall quail before
catholic agitation, and surrender our protestant brethren in Ire-
land=-(loud cheers which continued for some minutes) to the
fury of demagogues, the vengeance of priests, or the madness
of the people? I contend, sir, that it behoves us to act a
bolder and' nobler part. Let us secure to all-classes of his
Majesty's subjects, without distinction of sect or grade, equal
justice, perfect freedom of representative government, and full
enjoyment and secnrity of life and property, under equal laws,
firmly administered and impartially executed. But I say, let
us do anything rather than submit to the lawless spirit of catho-
lic agitation. In my conscience, I believe that this bill, as ten-
dered by his Majesty's gevernment, is neither more nor less
than an unconditional surrender. I consider the proposal of
my right hon. friend to be a fair compromise on just and equal
terms, and on these grounds I give it my cordial and unhesi-
tating support."—(The right hon. baronet sat down amid loud
cheers, which continued for some time.)
Mr. O'CONNELL resisted the motion, as an unjust attack on
the institutions of Ireland, which by the bill would be purified
and rendered efficient for the service of the country. - The hon.
and learned member concluded a speech of considerable length
and power, with the following appeal:—" What ! were they
Statesmen ? and, if so, must they not be convinced that the
great question now, was, that Ireland was a most important part
of the British empire. He stood there as the representative
of three of the provinces of Ireland, and was ready to declare
that he flung the repeal to the winds, if justice were done to
his country. The terms he proposed were perpetual co-opera-
tion for every work of good, and perpetual brotherhood for
equal rights and privileges. Deny him these terms, and then
he,wuuld say that the union between both countries was as
nothing."
Lord STANLEY replied to Mr. O'Connell with his usual elo-
quence, and challenged the hon. and learned gentlemen to pro-
duce his credentials as plenipotentiary on the present occasion.
He maintained that the cases of England and Ireland, as re-
garded the state of the people, were not analogous; and that
therefore what might be in some degree conservative in one
country would .be of fatal tendency in the other.
Lord J. RUSSELL resisted the motion, contending that to
increase
the it would be to express distrust of Ireland, and to
the evil that they ,would :avert.; and that. theuffections of the
people could not be so well secured as by giving them a share
in the .manag,ement'Of their own affairs, and by extending to
them equal laws as far as circumstances would admit. ..
Sir R. PEEL supported the motion for an instruction to the
committee, 'declaring that the question in some degree pre-
sented itself as ,a:.ehoice, of evils,,andAhat at he saw.nothing in
granting the bill link what was calcala d te iincreasn:, the influ-
ence of Mr. O'Ciiririell; now fat fob' ' eat in Ireland, he pre-
Tr
f.eryplAaking his. stand here, instead, df.ifaiting till his power
Was increased by the means that woold.kailae,,e4.l9,,bis party's
hands by the carrying of the bill.' -ABM (tie arguments with
which the government had supported the bill;:they were of the
most contradictory character.
At four o'clock the house divided. The numbers Were—for
the motion, 243; against, 307 ; majority, 64. •
The motion being thus disposed of—
Lord
JOHN RUSSELL said, after two nights of late debate, i
would be more convenient to adjourn the house till 'Thursday
and accordingly moved that the house, at its rising, adjourn til
that day. •
In answer to a question from Sir R. PEEL,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL said it was his intention to move the
committal of the dissenters' marriage bill on Monday next,
Adjourned till Thursday.

Below the bar of the house was excessively crowded last night
and continued so till the division. Many peers were present
Among those below the bar was Lord A. Fitzclarence.

THE ANGLO-SPANISH AUXILIARY LEGION.

The town of Liverpool has been, and we believe still con-
tinues, placarded with an address, inviting " young men of
spirit" to join the British legion now serving in Spain. The
inducements held out are a trifling bounty and a " free kitt"
on embarkation, and some other advantages to be gained in the
fields of glory ; for these rewards they must submit " to be shot
at, for sixpence a-day." or something less. To those who,
from a truant disposition or other causes, may be disposed to en-
gage in this enterprise, we recommend an attentive perusal of
the subjoined police report, which we have extracted from the
Obsereer, a London weekly radical paper, for their especial use
and instruction.

If any respectable young-men should be disposed to join the
legion, we recommend them, before they do so, to read the
speech of Sir John Elley, in the House of Commons. The
thieves and vagabonds of this country who have enlisted or may
enlist under the standard of General. Evans are well got rid of
on-any terms or for any purpose.

"THAMES OFFICE, SATURDAY.—THE BRITISH AUXILIARY
LEGION.—On Mr. Broderip taking. his seat he stated to the
chief clerk that on his way to the office his attention was called
to a number of individuals seated in a group on the ;,avement,
surrounded by a mob of persons, and on inquiry lie found they
were a part of the British Auxiliary Legion in the service of the
Queen of Spain, who had been sent home incapable of service.
The situation of the
..nnegoli.ParPd to bry--the Most dreadful
hUmarrity'etruld suffer; many of them had shots in their legs,
and the whole of them appeared to be suffering from illness and
starvation. Their persons were very dirty, their clothing most
scant and miserable, hod they were covered with vermin.
Their sufferings and extreme destitute .situation' required Some
attention, and he had told the police of the 11. division to bring
the wretched creatnteS'ilown to the' office, in order that some-
thing might be done with them: In the course of the afternoon,
Ellis, a Thames Thee-officer, announced to Mr. Clarkson, Mr.
Brodrip having just left, that 'ten of the unfortunate men had
arrived, and brought them into the office. • Their appearance
excited great commiseration, and it 'was found necessary to
open the windows of the office, and to perfume it. Their names
were stated to be—John Rooks, Dennis Sullivan, Michael Lay,
Daniel Gilsou, Felix Valet, Henry Hunt, David Anderson,
John Strong, Patrick M'Galloway, James Methay, (of Glas-
gow,) and Thomas Smith. Sullivan stated that they had been
six months iu the service of the Queen of Spain, and had been
enlisted in this country. About a month ago they were placed
in the hospital at Saniandar, most of them suffering from in-
flammations and wounds. They were laid on the bare boards,
with only one rug between two men to cover them. On Tues-
day week they were removed on board the sloop Colonel Evans,
to be sent to England, previous to which a part of their clothes
and their shirts were taken from their backs to be given to the
healthy troops marching up the country. He had been suffer-
ing from inflamation of the lungs, and two blisters had been
placed on his chest, which were removed when he was about to
be taken on board the sloop. He begged of them to allow the
shirt to remain on his back, but they tore it off, nor could he get
any linen to cover the raw flesh which had been blistered.
They were nine days on their passage, and the whole number of
invalids on board amounted to fifty-two, some of whom were put
and carried ashore at Barking, and the rest in other places on
each side of the river. They were given 6s. each on landing,
and they, knew not to whom to apply for the rest of their wages,
amounting to £7 each. They had not received a farthing of
wages while in Spain, and they were now in London quite
destitute, in a bad state of health, with no friends, all of them
having engaged in the service in different parts of England,
Ireland, aneScotland.

" Some of the men exclaimed—
Worship, and shall die in the streets.'

' We are all starving, your

" Mr. Clarkson said the men were evidently very ill, and in
a most distressed condition, but he was at a loss to know what
to do with them. They had better apply to the parish-officersof
the district in which they last slept. He then ordered that they
should be relieved with a shilling each from the office poor box.
The magistr tte adde I that the men had been very hardly treat-
el, but he was not sure but it might have been 'their own faults
-,-they might have neglected their duty.—The men declared
,that they had perforrred !heir duty in a proper way ; they were
Jumble, by sickness and wounds, to perform it longer. They
then withdrew, complaining bitterly of the privations they had
endured.