The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1846-01-20 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

too great, such a facility was most desirable, for it only
very recently happened that a ship, in passing into the
river, from one dock into another, capsized, and suffered
considerable damage. Not only, therefore, was it with
a view to the extension of the docks themselves, and
to afford greater accommodation and facilities to the
trade of the port, that these plans were proposed ; but
also with the view of affording greater security to the
shipping.--(Hear, bear.) He would just premise that
now was the time when these improvements and extensions
must be carried out—now or never—inasmuch as the
land on the east side of King's Dock had been purchased
by the Grand Junction Railway; and if this opportunity
were lost, and the time allowed to pass away till that
company should have erected expensive buildings there,
it would then be altogether impracticable to carry out the
proposed improvements. (Cheers.) He should say very
little about the plans themselves, because they carried
conviction to every mind from their simplicity, their uti-
lity, and their general convenience to the port; therefore,
he should first direct his attention to making out a case of
the necessity of further dock accommodation, after taking
into account the large amount of works now in progress.
He hoped to be able to accomplish this task to the satisfac-
tion of the Council. The next proposition he proposed to
show was, that they were warranted in undertaking new
works by the position of the dock revenue, and by the
probable increase of the trade of the port ; and in doing
so, lie should endeavour to confine himself to the past,
appealing to undeniable facts, and as regarded the future,
to take such a moderate view of matters, that no one
would, as he thought, presume to deny the probability of
what might be expected. (Hear, hear.) It would be
difficult, indeed, and he thought the Council would agree
with him, after they had heard his statement, to say
where the trade of this port would finish, and where and
when they must stop in meeting the demands of the port
for increased dock accommodation. (Hear.) Hitherto
we had always been in arrear (bear, hear), and by the
time the new works now in progress should be completed,
we should still be in arrear ; and therefore he held it to be
their duty to provide accommodation as rapidly as they
could for the wants of the future. He knew it had been
stated in that Council and elsewhere, that • the Albert
Dock was more than sufficient to meet all the wants of the
port ; but he should be able to prove most clearly that
this allegation was not the case,—nay, more, that all the
new docks to the north, and the additional dock to the
south, would be inadequate to meet the demands of the
port at no very distant day. (Hear, hear.) It had also
been repeatedly stated in that Council, that the trade of the
port was rather more likely to be a declining trade
than an increasing trade, more especially as regarded one
branch which he should have occasion to bring under the
notice of the Council in his subsequent remarks, and
that was the timber trade. (Hear, hear.) Having
thus in these preliminary remarks drawn attention to
the advantages to be derived from the continuous com-
munication of the docks from one end to the other, he
wculd now at once shew that some increase "of dock ac-
commodation would be necessary. In order to do this he
must crave their indulgence, as he should have to trespass
upon their time rather longer than usual, but, as this
was a matter of very great importance to the town of
Liverpool, he should be excused, he was sure. He wish-
ed to shew that in undertaking, as the Dock Committee
had, to recommend this scheme to the Council, they bad
not done so upon light grounds, nor without very grave
and mature consideration ; and therefore, in order that
the Council might estimate properly the increase in the
trade of the port, he would give some statements in the
first instance as to the increase of trade in other places.
(Hear.) He would first take the port of Hull, because
attention bad been particularly directed to that port, and
because it had been stated not only in this town but in
other towns, that the port of Hull was taking away a great
part of our commerce, particularly the salt trade. (Hear,
hear.) He looked upon these statements as altogether
visionary, more especially when the railway which was
shortly expected to run through the district called the
Wyches, would enable parties to bring salt down to Li-
verpool, and at once put it on board the exporting ship,
without the delay now caused by taking it out of the flat
which brought it, and then on board the ship. (Cheers.)
A MEMBER asked, what railway was here meant ?

Mr. BRAMLEY MooRE replied, it was a projected line,
nning through the salt districts in Cheshire, which, by
--nes, would enable the wag-
dock quays. He would now

gons to come right upon the
state the tonnage of Hull:—
Year. Tons. Year.
1838... ........... 503,000 1842.
1839..

Tons.
595,000
653,000

. .
652,000 I 1844...
660,000 1 1845...

762,000
710,000

.
It would be perceived from this statement that the in-
crease in the last two years in the port of Hull had been
only about 80,000 tons, a circumstance to which be par-
ticularly called attention ; because there were at Hull
new works in the course of construction upon rather an
expensive scale, and of some magnitude, in anticipation
of an increase of trade, and the want of dock accommo-
dation, He, therefore, begged the Council particularly
to notice that the increase there had been 85,000 tons
only. (Hear, bear.) He regretted exceedingly having
been disappointed in obtaining returns from the port of
Bristol ; but he could state so far that, if he had them,
they would be very much to the same purpose. Having
done this, he would now take the Council to the port of
London. The following was the tonnage which bad passed
through the several docks in the year ending 31st De-
cember, 1845 :

East and West India Docks
St. Katherine's Dock ..
London Docks ...... .......

Tons.
333,503
157,191
273,795

764,4E9

This statement, compared with that for the year 1813,
two years ago, showed an increase of 154,378 tons, which
was the amount of the total increase of the East and
West India Docks, the London Docks, and the St. Ka-
therine's. This was the increase for two years, let it be
remembered. He had to request the members of the
Council to bear this statement in mind, because, in order
to show them the improvement of the trade here, and its
rapid increase, he proposed in the next place to give the
port of Liverpool ; and he had to state, and he did so with
feelings of peculiar pleasure and pride, that as far as re-
garded increase, the port of Liverpool eclipsed the whole
of them. (Applause.) He should state a fact altogether
unprecedented in the annals of the' country as connected
with the increase of towns. Surprise had been expressed
by members of the Council when they talked of an in-
crease of 100,000 tons ; but he did not now compute its
increase by one hundred thousand but by hundreds of
thous, nds. In the annual statement of the Dock Com-
mittee ending June 24, 1845, the financial year, the in-
crease was there reported to be 383,819 tons over the
preceding year. (Hear.) But the six months from June
up to the 31st December last exceeded that, or that of
any former period, inasmuch as it showed an increase of
no less than 600 vessels and of 209,409 tons. (Great ap-
plause.) If this were taken and added to the previous in-
crease it would be perceived that in about two years the
increase of the port of Liverpool, in point of tonnage, ex-
ceeded that of the entire of the London Docks. (Hear,
hear.) It exceeded the entire trade that passed through
the East and West India, the St. Katherine, and the
London Docks, although those docks had all the advan-
tages of having warehouses round them. (Hear.) Con-
nected with this subject he begged at the same time to
mention that the increase in money during the last six
months over the corresponding six months of the previous
year, amounted to .Z.C6,076 17s. 9d—from June to De-
cember ; a startling fact when he reminded the Council
that the rates had been decreased.
Mr. RATHBONE here asked for the exact figures, and
they were mentioned again.
Mr. BRAMLEY MOORE, in continuation, said, in order
that this increase might be properly appreciated he must
remind the Council that it embraced a period when the
dock dues had been lowered upon all distant voyages,
such as China, the East Indies, and South America,
from 2s. 3d per ton to Is. 6d. This fact should be born
in wiind, because 93. per ton was a very large reduction.
(Hear.) These figures he thought had shown that Liver-
pool was progressing in a ratio beyond that of any other
port in the kingdom, and that what he had stated would
alone be sufficient to induce the Council to sanction the
plans he had the honour to submit on behalf of the Dock
Committee. (Hear.) What was there indeed to put
limits on the progress of the port of Liverpool ? When
we considered that the China trade was bu' in its infancy
—that we had there but just opened a new commercial
world where there were 300 millions of inhabitants, that
the East India trade was very much upon the increase,
and that the western trade belonged peculiarly to Liver-
pool—and when, he added, these two last trades in par-
ticular had increased more than ever—these circumstances
alone were a sufficient answer to the allegation of no fur-
ther dock accommodation being required. (Hear.) There
had been in every department of trade from different
parts of the world an increase in the tonnage, with the
exception of the Brazils, the West Indies, and the Gulf of
Mexico, the decrease in which was of so very trifling a
nature as not to be worth mentioning, But he would
more especially cal attention to the East India and
China trade and the trade wiih the Western World, which
he must say belonged exclusively to the port of Liverpool
—and which could never be taken from us unless our
channels were filled up. The increase in the East
India tonnage had been twenty per cent ; on the United
States and Western trade it was about 30 per cent ; and
the fact of these two particular branches having increased
more than any other, was deserving of particular notice.
He might add to this, and say, that as we give increased
accommodation so we should draw trade to the port.
(Hear, hear.) Suppose at no distant period, which he
dared say would be the case, we should have a modified
tariff of duties upon Coffee, Sugar, and other foreign pro-
ductions at present excluded by the very high tariff upon
them ; when these duties were reduced, it was not in the
power of man to divine what dock accommodation would
be requir.'d in a port like Liverpool. He was aware
it was said that so large a portion of our trade came from
the western world, in ease of a war we should lose a great
portion of it ; but war in his opinion would be the means
of increasing it, because Liverpool would then become the
port of England. It would be the only safe and approch..
able port in the event of war; for, in consequence of the
introduction of steam in warfare, vessels would be able to
come under protection all the way to Liverpool, when
they would never think at all of venturing down the chan-
nel. So far then as the advantages of increased accommo-
dation went, he thought he had stated sufficient on that
head. There was one branch of trade to which he would
now call particular attention, having already referred to
it, and that was the timber trade. It had been stated in
that Council, that the timber trade was a declining trade
in the town of Liverpool. It had also been stated by a
member of that Council before the House of Lords, that
this trade was supposed to have seen its maximum in
Liverpool, and that it could not be an increasing trade.
I He need only state one fact connected with the timber
trade to shew its importance generally to the country—
namely, that there were more artificers of eighteen years
of age employed in the timber trade than in any single

trade or occupation in the kingdom. This fact alone was
sufficient to stamp the importance of this trade;. and so far
from its being a declining trade in this town, he had every
reason to believe that as increased facilities were given for
taking timber into the country, so would the trade be
pushed beyond its present limits. Hitherto there had been
no accommodation for it at the north end at all—at least
comparatively none, because while there were only
100,000 tons at the north end, there were 1,300,000 tons
at the south. But when increased facilities were given at
the north by the railways making there for carrying the
timber away, not only would it go there, which it could
without expense, but from' he north it would go to all the
districts where the Liverpool, Bolton, and Bury railway,
(hear, hear, from Mr. James Brancker,) and the intended
Liverpool, Ormskirk, and Preston railway, would
run, and would find a mart in every place connected
with those lines. At present it might be said the timber
trade met at Birmingham because it came there just in
collision with the port of Gloucester : but Liverpool being
a much greater and more important port, it would in all
probability push the trade beyond Birmingham. At all
events, the trade was a very increasing one, and it would
continue to increase so long as the Grand Junction railway
followed the wise policy which they had latterly done, of
reducing their rates of carriage. He had before him a
very elaborate document, which it would take too much
time to read entire, and therefore he would read only the
heads of it, for which he was indebted to a gentleman
whose accuracy he was sure every one would appreciate
when he stated it had been drawn up by Mr. Rankin.
From this document the Council would see the number
of vessels, and their tonnage, employed exclusively in the
timber trade in the port of Liverpool, from 1838 to the
present year ; and he ought to mention that all vessels
bringing other cargoes, besides timber, had been entirely
excluded : _

-----Y-
ear No. of Vessels Tons
1838 .. 305 .. 160,030
1839 .. 339 .. 170,000
1840 .. 230 .. 174,000
1841 • • 318 .. 174,000
1842 .. 165 .. 91,000
1843 .. 316 .. 107,000
1844 .. 367 .. 188,000
1845 .. 440 .. 234,000 .
It was in 1844 that the timber trade was said to be on
the decline : yet it would be seen, that in 1845 there bad
been an enormous increase both in ships and tonnage.
This table alone would be sufficient to show the council
the importance of the timber trade, and how inadequate
bad been the accommodation afforded to it in this port.
There had been an extraordinary increase in several par-
ticular descriptions of timber. One of these was ma-
hogany, to which the Dock Committee particularly
directed their attention some four or five years ago, with
the view of affording more accommodation. He would
give, for the last three or four years, the increase in
pieces and feet, commeccing with 1838, because he had
commenced the return of the ships and tonnage with that

year :

Year. Feet and Pieces. Year. Feet and Pieces.
1838 15 millions 1842 9 millions
1839 16 „ 1843 17 „
1840 11 „ 1844 24 „
1841 16 „ I 1845 30 „
Comment upon this was unnecessary, and it would be
unnecessary for him to say another word to make out a
case to show the necessity for increased accommodation.
It had been stated in that Council more than once or
twice, that the dearness of the port of Liverpool was
against its interest, and that it was dearer in port charges
than other places. Now in order to afford gentlemen an
opportunity of ascertaining the dearnesi of the port of Li-
verpool, he had brought with him a parliamentary return
of last year, containing the charges at every other port in
the kingdom, and it would be proved, on comparing all
their charges, that Liverpool was a very moderate andicheap
port. He need not go further with this subject, but he
would lay the book on the table for the inspection of
any gentleman who chose to examine it. It would be
proved that for what was charged in Hult Is. 3d., we
charged Is. ; what was charged 10d., we charged 9d. ;
and that what was charged Is. 9d. per ton, we only
charged Is. 6d. In fact, Is. 6d. was our maximum rate.
It would be preposterous to make a comparison of the
charges in the port of Liverpool with those of the
port of Bristol, because they were so great there its
not to require further allusion. London was dearer
than Liverpool. There was one point immediately
connected with the necessity of affording increased dock
accommodation which he had nearly omitted, and that
was the coal trade. The coal trade was a trade wholly
and entirely unaccommodated in the port of Liverpool.
(Hear). He anticipated a very large revenue to arise to
the dock estate from this branch of business, for which
'there was at present no accommodation, when the Council
took into account the immense and rich zoal-field through
which the Liverpool, Bolton and Bury railway passed.
(Loud cries of " Hear, hear" from Mr. JAS. BRANCICEIt.)
Without any great stretch of imagination, he thought this
same coal trade alone would soon require a dock exclu-
sively for its accommodation, and for its special and sole
use. (Hear, hear.) Liverpool had hitherto exported
nothing in the way of coal, because it was only taken out
as a matter of convenience in the shape of ballast. About
one million tons came into Liverpool annually, yet out of
that there had not been in 1842 more than 117,000 tons
exported. He had no hesitation in saying from his own
experience, that when such facilities were afforded that
coal could be brought down and at once put on board the
vessel from the railway trucks, without the expense of
cartage, it would become a very important trade in this
port. In his own experience, he had frequently been un-
able to execute orders for coal, and had been obliged to
send them to Newcastle and other places, owing to the
want of accommodation; but when the railways he had
mentioned were opened, passing as they did through such
fields, he anticipated the time, and he should be borne out
In saying he was not assuming too much—when we
should be able to compete with Newcastle and other
places as an exporting place for coal. (Hear.) This, in-
deed would be very easy when we took into account the
immense commerce which Liverpool had with all parts of
the world. Here when vessels had nothing to do, the owners
preferred laying them up rather than-undertake a voyage
with a cargo of coal at the present cost of embarking it at
this port ; but when the facilities were giv'en which he had
pointed out such vessels would not be allowed to be idle.
They would be sent with coal to many different parts of
the world, and thus it would be a very easy matter for
the tonnage of the port to be increased simply by coal be-
ing brought into the town so much cheaper. 400,000 or
500,000 tons would be comparatively nothing to export;
but the coal trade must of necessity increase, because the
demand for it all over the world for steamers was daily
increasing. He might therefore venture to say that Li-
verpool would become a considerable port for the export
of coal, and that this trade alone would, at no distant day,
require the accommodation of a dock exclusively.
(Cheers.) The increase of tonnage which he had shown
in the last two years, was equal to the entire tonnage
turned out and the business done in George's Dock,
King's Dock, Queen's Dock, and Salthouse Dock, in the
aggregate. (Cheers.) This fact would give the Council
an opportunity of estimating whether the increase which he
had brought under their no ice would not give ample oc-
cupation to every dock now in course of construction;
but to make it more familiar be would confine it to
Victoria, Waterloo, Prince's, and George's Docks, which
were the four first docks of the port. This increase of
tonnage in two years would require as much accommoda-
tion as those four' docks had afforded during the last
year, and they bad been unprecedently and inconveniently
crowded in the business that had been transacted there.
He might reasonably assume that at least 25 per cent.
more accommodation would be required than they afford-
ed ; and therefore he said there was ample trade at the
present moment to occupy every dock now in course of
construction, without at all looking into futurity. But
they must look into futurity. Liverpool must take care of
her trade; and that Council as trustees of the docks, and
he might say trustees of the town, were called upon to see
that ample and plentiful provision was made, not only
for the existing wants of the port, but for its probable
wants. And in doing that they were not to; be influ-
en in any way whatever by anything to which he had
re to believe attention would be called, doing in an-
other quarter. (hear, hear.) What they had to do was
to provide accommodation for the port of Liverpool, ir-
respective of whatever might be done on other parts of
the Mersey. (loud cheers.) With these views he con-
fidently and strongly recommended to the protection of
the Council the plans now before them. (hear, hear.]
He had said enough he thought upon these different
heads ; his next proposition therefore would take them to
the estimates of the cost, to show that the Deck Committee
were not going to pay more than the state of their
finances warranted, nor more than the wants of the port
demanded. The first point to which he would call atten-
tion was the valuation. The valuation of the property
had been made by two eminent valuators, of whom it
would be sufficient to say he believed they had rather the
credit of over than undervaluing, in order to make sure of
their ground. The property had been valued by Mr.
Stewart and Mr. Wightman, consequently no doubt could
be raised as regarded the value. ile would now take the
Council to the estimates. They had already been read,
therefore be should be very brief upon them. The total
amount, it would be perceived, was £531,0001 from•which
must be deducted £68,000, to which item he must call
particular attention. The reason of this being deducted
was, that under the circumstances of the intended rail-
way, they would have to pull down sundry stacks of
buildings, which were marked upon the plan, which would
cost about that sum. Whether the proposed plans were
carried or not, this expenditure would be necessary in order
to carry out the intended railway, the object of which, as
the Council were a,./ire, was to facilitate and cheapen
this port, because, he ventured to say, the utility of the
Albert Dock warehouses, without a railway communi-
cating with them, on which the trucks could be brought,•
and the merchandize be conveyed direct to Manchester,
or any other place, without incurring one farthing's ex-
pense in cartage, Would be very much diminished indeed.
He looked upon the railway, therefore, as a matter of
absolute necessity for that purpose, whether this plan of
extension should be carried or not ; and it was not
aasuming too much to deduct the amount ,from the
estimate of the cost of making the docks. Another point
of accommodation which the Dock Committee hoped to
obtain, and about which they thought there would be no
difficulty with the proper authorities, would be an addi-
tional street for the accommodation of the public to the
eastward of the proposed works. The Dock Committee,
of course, were not called upon to provide for the im-
provement of the town ; and they apprehended there
would be no difficulty on this subject, because the im-
provement was so apparent, but the advantages of it so
great. No difficulty on this point could therefore arise.
The next thing to which he would call attention was
the estimated cost of the new works. The cost of
the dock, and the (improvements at Wapping, would be
£463,186, which would include an area of 5 acres 235
square yards. Then the railway would cost £63,400
making a total of £531,586, and a total area of 8 acres
478 yards, including 1 acre 1671 yards of water.
Mr. W. EARLS.—What kind of acres?

1 Mr. BRAMLEY-

Nioome—Statute acres

Mr. EARLE—It is as well to know, for sometimes it is
convenient to call them Cheshire acres.

Mr. BRAMLEY-MOORE said, they were not in the
habit of doing so. This. would make a total of 8 acres
478 yards, at a cost of £457 per linehl yard. Now, in
order that the subject might be properly understood, he
must call the attention of the Council to the cost of other
works which had been erected in the town, because that
would forma very good criterion to many who were not
so well acquainted with dock works as the members of
the Dock Committee. The cost of the present works,

then, would be £457 per lineal yard. The Prince's
Dock cost £670,000, or £564 per lineal yard, therefor,
they would perceive that the Prince's Dock cost '—
cent. more than the proposed improvements. The
Docks, which were now in course of erection, would cost
about £221 per lineal yard—the Albert Dock would cost
£353 per lineal yard, or about 25 per cent. less than the
proposed scheme ; but, on the other band, the Prince's
dock cost 25 per cent. more, which must be
account, and the Brunswick dock cost £3
yard. Therefore, when they took and made
of those works, they would find the proposed works ~.
moderate than could be anticipated—more especially
when they took into account the densely populated state
of the neighbourhood. It had been thought by
persons that the population was so dense that it
totally impossible to carry out the new plans. He (M.
Moore) would therefore state, that the number of houses
to be pulled down amounted to 146, and if they took into
account the cellars which were occupied as separate dwel-

25 per
North

aken into

25 per lineal

Bugs, there would be 285 ; but excluding these, the num-
ber was as he had stated, 216. With respect to the ware-
houses, he should leave that subject to be treated by his
friend Mr. Nicol, who was better acquainted with its
details than he (Mr. Moore) could be. When, however,
they took into account the cost of the new works, and
the number of families who would have to be displaced,
they would find the subject was not as difficult as . many
were led to believe, nor would they find the works so
difficult, on comparing them with what had been done
in London. The London docks, excluding from con-
sideration the St. Katherine's and East and West India
docks, cost £4,000,000 of money ; 1 300 houses were pulled
down, and 2,000 families had to be removed. Now,
when the Council took into account the enormous
amount of property taken, and the great namber of
of families removed, they would not be startled at the
number taken here, and the state of the property, houses
which would be much better removed than as they now
are. As to the effect of such removal on the health of
the town he should say nothing, but would leave his
friend, Mr. Tinne, to deal with that, merely adding that
he thought their removal would be of very great advan-
tage. (Hear, hear.) The next step would be to call the
attention of the Council to the state of the Finances of the
dock estate, for he trusted he had. satisfactorily shown
that further accommodation was necessary, and he (Mr.
Moore) would undertake to show, with equal satisfaction,
that they were in a position, from the state of their finan-
ces, to undertake some great work. It bad been stated
on a former occasion, that the Dock Committee had no
surplus revenue, but he (Mr. Moore) was happy to state,
that they had a very large one, not only for the current
expenses of repairs, but also quite equal to pay interest
on the whole of their projected improvements without in-
creasing their dock rates at all. The surplus revenue of
the dock estate for the past year was £99.023 3s. sd.
A MEMBER.—For the pear ending 31st December?
_ __

Mr. BRAMLEY MOORE.—That was for the financial
year ending 24th June last. Now in that was included
£43,000 for repairs, which had been unusually heavy
during the past year. The average of the repairs, &c.,
were generally something under £30,000, therefore, in ar-
riving at the surplus of £99,000, they should deduct the
sum of £43,000. To that must be added, and he felt as-
sured he should have the-sanction of one gentleman pre-
sent for doing so, the profit on the Albert dock, which
was at present entirely unproductive. The I,rofit of that
dock had been estimated before a Committee of the House
of Lords and Commons. at £38,000. He (Mr. Bramley
Moot,) was, however, willing to take it at £30,000,
which reckoning the present surplus, as it imight be, in
round numbers, at £lOO,OOO, would make a clear surplus
income of £130,000, and he felt quite sure by the time
that dock was in operation it would exceed that. Under
these circumstances he thought the bond-holders would
have no cause for alarm, but would be perfectly satisfied
with the state of their affairs. The present bonded debt
was £2,500,000, and they could bear as much as would
make it £4,000,000, at which it might be taken in round
numbers. Therefore, with their present surplus, they
might very safely undertake not only the works now in
progress, but they were at liberty to do a great deal more,
if the trade of the port should hereafter require it. He
considered they were called upon to dc this, because so
long as they afforded the necessary accommodation in the
town of Liverpool for the trade of the port, so long would
they keep the, trade of the port at Liverpool, and on this
side of the Mersey. He, therefore, thought after the
statement he had made to them connected with the state
of dock affairs, that they were in a position not only to
undertake the works now proposed, but that •no alarm
need be entertained that they were either going into diffi-
culties, or into schemes of too gigantic a scale. His own
opinion was, that they could not do that for the trade of
the port had increased, and he had no hesitation in saying
it would increase, therefore, be looked upon those who
would get up the cry of alarm to the bondholders as
pursuing a scheme purely chimerical and visionary.
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) There was another matter
to which he wished to draw the attention of the Council,
and that was, that during the progress of the works the
Salthouse Dock would only have to be closed for about
three months. The next subject to which he would call
their attention was the Manchester Basin. He had said
enough with regard to the want and necessity for further
dock accommodation, and with •regard to the finances of
the Dock Committee ; and, therefore, he would only

briefly allude to the proposed plan at the Manchester
Basin, the object of which was to provide such accom-
modation as would enable them to take away produce
either by land or water conveyance. It was not the inten-
tion of the Dock Committee to take the whole of that to
themselves, but to afford sheds and other facilities for
carriers. This would also, from its proximity, afford
increased accommodation for the working of the Albert
warehouses. There was only one other point to which
he wished to draw the attention of the Council, and that
was the subject of taking power to widen the new dock at
the south end, and to make a straight line, so as to have
larger quay space, from Sefton-street. They would then
have a dock equal to the Brunswick Dock, which was
the very best timber dock they -could have. This was a
small matter, but it was absolutely necessary for the im-
provement of that land. Having gone through the whole
which he thought necessary connected with the want of
dock accommodation, and with respect to the estimates,
he woad just remind the Council of what he had said
with repect to the bonded debt and the surplus
revenue. The enormous increase in the amount of the
tonnage of the timber trade showed the great in-
crease of it—in fact, it was impossible to carry it on
without further accommodation, and therefore it was
absolutely necessary to do every thing they could to ac-
commodate it. Lastly, he wished again to call their att-n-
-tion to another trade—the coal trade. They would be im-
peratively called upon to provide another dock at the north
end oi the town, for the exclusive use of that trade. This
would be of great advantage to that trade, especially after
the railway was laid down, as that would afford facilities
to carry the coals along the docks to any part of the town,
and to put them on board vessels in any of the docks.
He was, however, quite convinced that with all this ac-
commodation they would, before four years had passed,
fall far short of affording the accommodation which the
port would require. Under these circumstances, it de-
volved upon him to recommend the proposed plans to the
Council for their sanction, and he did so with the convic-
tion that they were well worthy of such sanction, and that
now alone was the time to carry them out, or they would
never again have the opportunity. The speaker con-
cluded by moving that the proceedings of the Dock Com-
mittee be confirmed, and that they be empowered to take
the necessary steps, and prepare a bill, to carry out the
plans connected with them.
Mr. ROBINSON seconded the motion. He considered
the proposed plans would afford very great accommoda-
tion to the trade of the port. The scheme was a most
comprehensive one, and one which the town very much
needed. It would bring the decks into complete con-
nection with each other, so that a vessel could get from
one dock to another without the danger of going into the
river in stormy weather. As respected the proposed ac-
commodation for the coal trade, he thought that was the
weakest point of the case, as it was not a trade ever
likely to require a dock for its accommodation. He
should, however, wish to see George's Dock widened,
for on the west side of that there was much land lying
waste, which, if turned into water space, would be much
more useful, and also the Albert warehouses completed at
once, if that were possible.
Mr. EVANS had heard, with very great surprise,
that they were to have another open dock, in ad-
dition to the one hundred and eight acres of docks al-
ready in existence, and eighty acres which were in course
of construction, and which had not yet been brought into
play. The latter had not been at all taken into calcula-
tion, and be maintained they would provide accommoda-
tion for what would arise according to even the most san-
guine anticipation. He did not deny that the plan was a
very good one for the ground, and would have answered
very well numbers of years ago ; but the ancient policy of
Liverpool had been not to run the risk of overdoing the
docks, because an empty dock re-acted upon the others in
the form of a charge. Now, the proposed dock would cost
100 per cent. higher than the rates they now had. He
had arrived at a calculation, and he understood from his
fr:end on his right that he was right, that the average in-
come of the docks was about £2,000 an acre. Now, the
object of the Dock Committee ought to be, to keep down
the port charges; but, if they went on consuming the
surplus in the manner they were, they would find them-
selves one day in such a position that they could not re-
duce' the dock rates, and it would be impracticable to
augment them. When they were owing £4,000,000 of
money, as was admitted, and which he looked upon as
the minimum, the interest on that, the annual average
cost of repairs which he had heard Mr. Hartley declare,
could not be reckoned at less than £3s,ooo—when to that
they added the cost of the repairs upon the new docks,
which would arise in time, and the expense of keeping up
the whole with dock masters and all sorts of things, be
thought they world not be far off an outlay of £250,000.
Now, he had heard it stated in a very surprising sort of
way that war would increase our commerce. That
could only be asserted by those who knew nothing,
from their own observation, about it (hear, hear). He
recollected being told by a person who was in Liverpool
during the last American war, that whole ranges of ware-
houses were empty, and the docks were so scarce of ship-
ping that boats were to be seen in full sail in them. But
what sort of war would they have nest? It would be
with one nation ; and he was of opinion it would reduce
the commerce of the port pot less than two-thirds.
However, the surveyor of the docks—a man of very
' great genius—however he might suggest improvements,

and he (Mr. Evans) had no doubt he could do that
adinfinilum, because he had a penchant for building
docks, it behoved the Council to weigh well the point
to which dock affairs were coming—it behoved the
Council, as guardians of the dock estate, to weigh well
those circumstances, which, in all probability, the sur-
veyor had not taken into his consideration. He (Mr.
Evans) did think it would be utterly indefensible to go
into any measure that would augment the dock rates.
They had beard a great deal respecting the finances of the
dock estate for the past year, but that ought to be looked
upon as an exception. There was no question but they
had, during the past year, had an undue excitement in
the country; and he had heard it stated, that hundreds
of houses had been built in 1845, very
doubtfol whether they would ever be tenant 4ovr
those who were acquainted with Liverpool kn that
for one year of excitement they had five of 1 tude.
It was exceedingly probable that docks, in the
Proposed, would, from their central situation,
preference over others, but if they did they

,
others empty, which w ould Mt
Another point he called atte

it was very
Id. Now
-Iv, that

losition

have the

I render

every small port in the
Liverpool, owing to the get,.
A great deal had been said ab...
commodation to the timber trade
continued to do this at a loss.
be very greatly favoured in that
nothing which would feel more
any approach to increased port charges tut
The speaker then condemned the alter
the Harrin

on to was the fact that
would become a rival to
stablisbment of railways.
it affording additional ac-

e. Now he thought they
He believed that trade to

uriously the effects of

gwu eseate, by which they would have to drag
the timber tip hill instead of its being on level ground.
Now, with,regard to this trade, he thought Birkenhead
would supply any deficiency there might be in accom-
modation, and he had heard it stated, that much
of their proceedings, particularly in agitating new docks,
and hurrying every thing to parliament in this gigantic
way—he had heard it said that it was to pull down and
master Birkenhead or to compel the parties to call upon the
Liverpool authorities to resume the purchase. He trusted
that would not be the case, for he should be very sorry to
see the commerce of England revert to thpse whom it was
very probable would, endeavour to bark the advantages
of the localities. Now the great advantage of Birkenhead
would be that they, if they managed their matters pro-
perly, would give the timber trade wharfs so that he con-
sidered so far from wishing to put down the docks
on the other side of the Mersey, that they would
be the means of protecting the estuary and preserve
a good deal of the trade of the port which would
otherwise be lost to it. He, however, objected to
the new scheme because there was no provision for
warehouses on the quays. He had had some experience
us a member of the Improvement Committee, in the pur-
chase of land. and he would say don't give £lO or £l2
per square yard, but go and build warehouses upon your
old docks where the land will cost you nothing. He
therefore said it was the duty of the Council to refrain
from constructing any open dock until they could ac-
company it with the desired warehouses. Now he would
have warehouses on every side of the docks and not on
one side only; but the present site was not sufficient for
warehouses as there would only be about 35 feet left for
them, and it would require at least 100 feet. If the
Council resolved on accepting the plans he should cer-
tainly move that no docks be made without the accom-
panyment of warehouses. He should here be told that
theie had been a compact entered into with the ware-
house owners. That he took the liberty of denying, and,
in addition to his own testimony, read a letter from Mr.
Robertson Gladstone, as chairman of the sub-committee,
to show that the clause in the Albert Dock Act related to
docks already in existence. He expressed his opinion
that if the Council agreed to the proposal to construct a
dock without warehouses it would not be permitted out of
doors, and after observing that the Council were but im-
perfectly informed, as to the details of the proposed plan,
with moving, as an amendment, that the

subject be deferred until the next Council.
After some conversation the amendment was altered
as to fix the day for that day fortnight.

Mr. RATH/lONE seconded the amendment. He urged
upon the Council the necessity of delay before they ex-
pended so large a sum as that proposed, to see the effect of
the dock accommodation on the other side of the water,
where, in a few years, there would be 100 acres of dock
space, and also, if possible, to try the effect of lower dock
rates.

Mr.. ALDERMAIICOL said, with regard to the want
of information wh had been complained of, the very
same means had been adopted on the present as on all
former occasions, to afford information, and as to the
value of. the property, at the period of the adjournment.
the Council could not be in a better position than at pre-
sent. The Dock Committee had laid before them the es-

timated value of the property, as ascertained by
Stewart, and Mr. Wightman, and no better valuation
could be obtained. With regard to the complaint of Mr.
Evans, that they had departed from the ancient custom
of waiting until the trade of the port overtook them,
he thought if the Dock Committee deserved any credit at
all, it was for their departure from that ancient policy and
going on to provide for the future wants of the trade.
Now, what was the conduct of Mr. Evans, the declared
champion of the warehouse principle? ' Why he came
forward, after he had bound the Dock Committee hand
and foot, so that they could not move with respect to
warehouses on the dock quays, and objected to their pro-
ceeding because it did not embrace a plan for building
warehouses ! He (Mr. Nicol) however thocght there
was some distinction between the proposed dock and
those already in existence, and the Council were aware
that the Dock Committee would not proceed with the
Albert warehouses until after a given time. Now was a
convenient time, and be thought the opportunity a favour-
able one for warehouse owners to come forward when
the bill was before Parliament, and permit claims to be
inserted, not only to allow the Albert warehouses to be

tained

for the erection of a line of warehouses on the east side of
the new dock. As to the increase of dock rates, there wag
no fear of that, and his friend, the Chairman of the Dock
Committee, had, shown that at present they were not
much in excess of any other port; and he (Mr. Nicol)
doubted very much whether they were higher than any
place in the kingdom. He, however, thought what the
Dock Committee had to do was to give additional facili-
ties and accommodation to the port, and he thought no-
thing could be better than tlylan of laying down rails
along the docks. A great ma too, had been said about
the want of depots for the timber
negitetth
ate
by
wraapdyae
past
t; k a
te
ybuteo fact
an
year,
which of there
being
from
mt argu-
ment
he
oenf athb
el e
a tradewt railwayhaes
merchants
oefexceedingly
he
elao notgs
portthe
tod sides
wtuearilklm
of the docks, which would
ships to any part of the town or the kingdom. Mr.
Evans had, however, laid great stress upon the increase
argued to be an unnatural state of things, owing to the
excitement which prevailed from railway speculation.
Now, what was the fact? Since that excitement had
subsided the trade of the port bad improved ; but the
trade had not increased in the same proportion during the
ap
ma sot
uyne
taerd, at so it had 7 6,oduringin tlhBe44f o
trom exr9y7e,aoros ;
0, for,whi
snt 1
iSo4 3
t,
hi
et
year just ended (1845) it only increased to £2,000. It
was, therefore, evident that the excitement of the railways
had distracted the attention of those engaged in com-
merce. Mr. Evans had stated that if war took place
trade would fall off; but there was another matter to be
considered, and that was, that if trade did fall oft ships
would require dock room ; for it was a fact that during
the depression of shipping the docks were more crowded
than at present, and during war, if they required less sea
room, they would need more dock space. With respect
to there not being space enough for warehouses on the
east side of the proposed dock, he was of opinion that
those at the Albert Dock were inconveniently wide, and
much narrower would be more useful. He did not anti-
cipate any rivalry from the other side of the water, except
such as he hoped would be friendly for both sides, but it
would be a great fallacy fors tradesman to give himself
no trouble to accommodate his customers on the ground
that another shop was about to be opened in the adjoining
street. After alluding to the probable increase in the
corn trade, as anticipated by some parties, Mr. Nicol
concluded by deprecating delay.

.
Mr. PARKER. said he would have supported the amend-
ment if he had thought it had been honest or straight-
forward, but its object was solely to defeat so good a

Mr. EARLE replied to Mr. Parker, but approved of the
scheme if warehouses could be built around the docks.

Mr. STEWART approved of the scheme, but thought
the quay space hardly sufficient for warehouses. The es-
timated value :of the property which he and Mr. Wight-
man had made, was, however, only an approximation.

Mr. J. H. TURNER and Sir THOMAS BRANCKER
approved of the scheme, but spoke in favour of ware-

Mr. BRAMLEY MOORE replied, and after some further
conversation the Council divided, when there appeared
for the amendment, Four; against it, 36.
For the amendment, Messrs. Ihornbill, Rathbone, J.
Holmes, and Evans. Against it, Messrs. W. Atherton,
J. Shaw, J. Brancker. Chaltner, Middleton, Littledale,
Tinne, Hende,son, Stewart, Toulmin, Robinson, G. G.
Hornby, Royden, Pemberton, J. N. Wood, Kaye, Kilshaw,
J. B. Lloyd, J. Hornby, Parker, Earle, Booker, Plump-
ton, Glazebrook, Mann, T. Lloyd, R. Houghton, James
Lawrence, Sir Thomas Brancker, J. H. Turner, Nicol,
J. Bramley Moore, Molyneux, J. S. Leigh, Chilton, and
the Mayor.

VANS then moved, that the Town•clerk should

s opinion, and, if necessary, take counsel's opinion
Upon the construction of the clause in the Albert Dock
Act relating to the warehouses.
This was not, however, put as a motion, it being
understood, however, that the Town-clerk should not
do so.

Mr. EVANS then moved another amendment, to the
effect that the Council should not approve of the scheme
without warehouses on the quay, and that the measure
be referred back for that purpose.
Mr. J. HOLMES seconded the amendment.

Mr. EARLE wished Mr. Evans to withdraw .the
amendment, it being understood that the, question was
under the consideration bf the Dock Committee, who
were anxious for the introduction of powers to erect
warehouses. _ _ . _

..........
Mr.._ EVANS, however, declined, and, after some con-
versation on the subject, the second amendment was put
and lost, the numbers being three for it, viz., Mr.
Chalmer, Mr. Evans, and Mr. Procter, and thirty-four
against, including the seconder, Mr. J. Holmes.
The original motion was then put and carried, and the
Council adjourned at a quarter past three.

A paragraph in the Chester Courant and other papers,
which we copy in another column, states that the Chester
and Bitkenh.ad Railway has been leased to the London
and Birmingham Grand Junction, or Chester and Holy-
head. We have inquired into the report since the para-
graph was in type and find the fact to be that the Chair-
man of the Chester and Birkenhead railway without, as
we understand, the sanction of the board, offered the line
to all these patties, but that it has been declined by each.