The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-11-16 00:00:00

ADJOURNED MEETING OF THE

TOWN COI

JNCII

The adjourned meeting of the Town Council was
terday for the purpose of proceedine with the appo►ntment
of the remaining committees. The MAYOR presided.

ADDRESS.TO THE QUEEN

Mr. SANDS said, before they proceeded with the usual bu-
siness there was one subject which ought, and he wag sure
would, by the unanimous consent of the council, have prece-
dence over every other. That subject was one of vf.r,

importance, one involving not only the interests of this. town
and of the British empire, but one in which he must venture
to say the whole world was interestet It was, a subject
upon which, as Englishmen, they felt very deep interest, and
on which all could unite. Here there were no jarring
strings ; here they felt themselves, upon, common ground,
desirous only to express their loyal attachment to the throne
and the constitution, and he would say their humble grati-
tude to Almighty God, for having preserved her Majesty
upon the occasion to which he adverted. He was quite sure
that they would all be most ready and most happy to offer to
her Majesty their hearty congratulations upon the birth of a
Prince and heir apparent to the throne of these realms. He
therefore begged to propos'e the following resolution—" That
a dutiful and loyal address be presented to her Majesty, and
also an address to his royal highness Prince Albert, and her
royal highness the Duchess of Kent, upon the joyful occasion
of the birth of a Prince and heir apparent to the throne of
these realms," and that a committee be appointed to prepare
the address.
Mr. JOHN. HoLmrt's seconded the motion.
On the motion of Mr. BUSRELL, seconded by Mr. PROC-
TER, a committee was appointed to prepare the addresses.
The following are the gentlemen of the committee :—the
Mayor, Mr. Sands, Mr. John Holmes, Mr. John B. Lloyd,
and Mr. Robertson Gladstone.
It was next resolved, on the motion-of Mr. Insms LAW-
RENCE, anti seconded by Mr. JOHN SMITH, that a deputa-
tion, consisting of the Mayor, Mr. Sands, and Mr. John
Holmes should proceed with the addresses to London, for.
the purpose of presenting them. •

APPOINTMENT OF THE EDUCATION COMMITTEI

Mr. Alderman EARLE supposed the council would now go
on with the business of the day, the first of which was the
appointment of the Education Committee. The gentlemen
who undertook to form the Education Committee when last
the council met, notwithstanding the advantages they had of
previous consultation and deliberation failed in their attempt,
for they had not even satisfied their own friends, much 'less
those that were opposed to them on this question. He was
aware that the subject was not without its difficulties. It
was a very important one, and the most important that could
come before them ; and he thought there could be little
doubt of its being settled in a manner that would satisfy all
reasonable parties if it were referred to the consideration of
men of'deliberate judgments and good sound sense. Ile had
the honour of belonging to the Education Committee for a
considerable time, and he had taken a very lively interest in
the schools. The lower orders in Liverpool, he thought, had
derived immense benefit from them, particularly that portion
of the community which had most need'of them. The bro-
therly kindness and the total absence of all discord upon reli-
gious principles, from religious motives which had existed
among the schools, was a very pleasing feature, and he attri-
buted it to the system which had been adopted. He must
appeal to many gentlemen who were upon the committee
last year to say whether there was not a great deal too much
good done in the schools to induce them to do anything that
would injure their general utility • that they would rather be
disposed to adopt measures which a spirit of mutual concilia-
tion would naturally suggest. Those schools, like the agita-
tion of the poor-law and the protestant association, had
been used as a political machine for the purpose of raising
certain parties into power. He did not, however, com-
plain of that, as many people thought all that was
justified in political warfare. It now appeared that the leader
of the tories did not choose to wield these weapons any
longer, as they might become dangerous to the party. hi
justification of this assertion he would only appeal to the
Times—and he was sure his friends upon the opposite
benches could not reasonably object to such an authority—
which said, or from its language one might calculate, that
those who harangued at such meetings were little better than
crazy-pated fanatics, hardly fit to be at liberty without a
keeper, and the advocates of measures totally at variance
with common sense. It must always be borne in mind that
these schools, and all the property of ,the corporation, be-
longed to the public at large, and that they were to be used
for the benefit of the public without any reference whatever
to religious creed. The act of parliament under which the
council met, recognised that principle to the fullest extent.
They were shorn of all their church patronage ; and from
that circumstance he held it was quite clear that the legisla-
ture never intended the corporate funds to be applied to the
benefit of any particular community. He should propose to
the consideration of the council a certain number of gentle-
men who, he thought, would form a very good committee
of education. He hoped that those gentlemen who might
be named would not offer excuses for not attending or for
not accepting the appointment. He was aware that there
were many who had valid reasons, upon account of their
various occupations to wish to be off the committee, but be
would suggest the expediency of the council allowing those
gentlemen to retire from it and others be substituted, as soon
as the knotty points of the question had been settled to the
satisfaction of all parties. • He had purposely omitted some
names upon his list upon account of the particular line of
conduct they had taken. Some of those who were very fre-
quently in the habit of referring to the scriptures, he would
remind them that there was a passage to be found there
which said, " Blame not before thou bast examined the
truth; understand first and then rebuke." (Hear, and cries
of " question.") Now he bad heard a great deal of rebuke,
but he had never yet heard that any of the gentlemen who
were loudest in their complaints against the schools, ever
went into those schools, and there understood and examined
the truth. (Hear, hear.) They had, upon various occasions,
broached opinions that rendered them disqualified entirely
from acting upon the committee, even supposing they pos-
sessed in other respects competency for the task—a question
which he by no means admitted. When a wound was in a
healing state, and showed asdisposition to close, he thought
it was unsound practice to apply perpetual blisters to it; he
therefore hoped, as this wound seemed to be in a way of
healing, the council would adopt conciliatory and healing
measures. The committee he should propose was—Mr. H
R. Sandbach, Mr.- T. Sands, Mr. R. Glatlstone, Mr. C
Bushell, Mr. G. H. Lawrence, Mr. A, Smith, jun., Mr
Alderman Nicol, Mr. J. Bramley Moore, Mr. R. S. rook
Mr. J. H. Turner,—ten all upon one side, and M. J. Mel
lor, Mr. T. Bolton, Mr. J. Aikin, Mr. Alderman Evans
and Mr. T. B. Barclay.
Mr. HODGSON submitted that Mr. Earle was proceediii
irregularly, Mr, Sandbach had moved the adjournment of
the council, and therefore he was entitled to the possession
of the chair.
The MAYOR said, as this was an adjourned meeting, Mr.
Sandbach was in possession of the chair.
Mr. SANDBACH quite agreed that he was in possession,
but he had no wish whatever to interfere with his friend Mr.
Alderman Earle.
Mr. BOLTON contended that Mr. Sandbach must go on.
Mr. Alderman EARLE said, he should not have opened
the debate had he not had the opinion of the Town-clerk
that he was competent to do so.
The TOWN-CLERK said, the adjournment was one of the
council, and therefore any member was at liberty to com-
mence. If the adjournment had been one of the debate
only, then the member must take up the subject who had
moved the adjournment.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—That is exactly so. I knew I
was right.
Mr. BRIGHT should not have risen on this occasion were
it not that he felt deeply interested in the continuation of the
present system. A strong clamour had been raised against
it at one period, but it had gradually subsided, till latterly
we had scarcely heard anything of it. (Hear.) We ought
to bear in mind, that by several acts of parliament, passed
not very long since, the old spirit of exclusiveism had been
abolished. The Test and Corporation Act had been repealed;
and others had subsequently passed giving to all persons—
without exception, without distinction of creed or opinion—
equal rights and equal privileges. They had the schools
upon their hands when the council was first formed, and the
Question was, how could they best apply the funds of the
Corporation to the continuation of a system of education
adapted to the equal rights of all. (Hear.) It was a diffi-
cult question undoubtedly ; and after great deliberation, a
system had been devised that had won its way by the opinion
of the public, and which, with little exception, became, he
might say, a popular system. It was admirably adapted to
meet the WaPtS and the requirements of all. From what he
had seen of it, ha believed that there were at this moment
few who discredited or ineliegfl to doubt the proper use of
the Bible in the schools, That waa first of all discovered—
The MAYOR, with all due deferenets to M. Bright, thought
that the immediate subject of discussion was not tbe'manage-
ment of the schools, but the appointment of a committee.
The counciLat present had nothing to do with the mode of
management adopted.
Mr. BRIGHT was strictly confining himself to the motion
introduced by Mr. Earle, but if he was out of order, he
should bow to the decision of the chair.
The MAYOR repeated, that the appointment of the com-
mittee was the subject under consideration. When the in-
struationa to the committee were read it would be competent
in Mr. Bright to speak on the points to which he referred.
Mr. BRIGHT said, the obiject in proposing a list of gentle-
men entertaining moderate opiniohs was? that the system now
pursued in the schools might have fair and proper considera-
tion. He certainly viewed with considerable jealousy the
list proposed by Mr. Sands at the last meeting. In that list
he found the indication of a certain line of conduct to which
he could not, by any means, agree ; it indicated, from the
rre iiously expressed opinions of the gentlemen upon it, what
would be the course of a committee so constituted. He
therefore felt a strong desire, having been named upon it, to
have the name of souse other gentleman substituted, whose
opinions might be more accordant with those of the majority
so proposed. He would not detain the council further than
to say, that he cordially concurred in the motion of Mr. Al-
derman Earle -

Mr, SANDBACII rose, hut gave way to
Mr. SANDS, who said he should move an amendment to
the motion proposed by Mr. Earle—
Mr. BOLTON would interrupt Mr. Sands just to suggest
that each name should be put separately, and that any objec-
tion to each so proposed, should also be separately discussed.
(Cries of " No, no.")
The MAvoR said the entire list must be read first.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—TO briny the matter to a point,
I rise to move that Mr. Sandbach be appointed a member of
the Education Committee.
Mr. BOLTON.---I second the motion.
Mr. PROCTER thought that Mr. Sands's list should be read
as well as Mr. Earle's.
Mr. SANDS said, he was quite in the hands of the council,
He had a list to propose, which he would read if permitted.
The MAYOR said, that as Mr. Alderman Earle had read
his list, Mr. Sands ought to read his ; and that it would be
much better to propose the names seriatim.
Mr. COOPER called for Mr. Sands's list to be read, to en-
able the council to choose the best names.
Mr. SANDS having observed that there were many names
upon his list which were also upon Mr. Earle's, read the
following.—Mr. Molyneux,'Mr. A. Smith, junior, 'Mr. Chil-
ton, Mr. Crook, Mr. Priestley, Mr. Bulley, Mr. Gladstone,
Mr. Platt, Mr. Sandbach, Mr. G. H. Lawrence, Mr. Alder-
man Eloughton, Mr. Hodgson, and Mr. Sands. Of these,
seven were churchmen, and the rest of various denominations.
There were ten conservatives, and the rest were liberals—
Mr. JORDAN.—Very liberal !
Mr. PLATT observed that 13 names had been read, whereas
the former committee consisted of 15.
Mr. Alderman EARLE—I thought the former committee
was conatiluted of 15 memtnbers.
Mr. SALNO'S continued, that the list he had read consisted
of seven Churchmen, two Wesleyan methodists—which was
the same thing, and four dissenters. The committee was
originally composed of 15 or 16; b 4; that number was
thought too large.
Mr. Alderman &mavv.—Have you any objection to
seven of one description, two of another, and four of a third?
(Cries of no, no.)
Mr. BOLTON said, Mr. Alderman Earle had proposed the
first list, which he, (Mr. Bolton,) seconded. He did not,
however, care what names were upon the list, but he did
contend that each name must be proposed and seconded
separately. Let Mr. Earle propose his name, and then Mr.
Sands might move his by the way of amendment.
Mr. SANDS—Very well ; I am content.
The MAYOR said, that when Mr. Earle had moved one
name, Mr. Sands might wove another as an amendment !
Mr. HODGSON observed that amendments were always put
the first from the chair. Mr. Sands had moved one, and,
therefore, he was in possession of the chair.
The MAYOR said this was perfectly understood.
Mr. Alderman EARLE asked by what authority the com-
mittee was reduced from 15 to 13? He begged leave to state