The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-02-12 00:00:00

THE LINT-WOOL STANDARD.

Emprrial Vartianunt.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—MoNoAr.
The Duke of Beaufort, Lords Dunsany, Bilhaven, and
Erskine took the oaths and their seats in the house.

NEW HOUSES OF PARLIAMENT.
Viscount DUNCANNON informed the house of the steps taken
respecting this intended new building. The committee ap-
pointed and selected out ninety-seven plans and one thousand
four hundred drawings; four plans by the following architects
—Charles Barry, Buckler, Hamilton, and Kemphorn.
They had awarded to the first-named architect £1,500. and to
the three others £5OO each. He proposed the re-appointment
of the committee of last session, who, he expected, in the course
of a few weeks would be prepared to lay before both houses of
parliament the plan which they thought the most advisable to
be adopted.
Ou the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY the capital
punishments bill was read a second time.
Tile Loan CHANCELLOR read his Majesty's answer to the
address of the house, presented on Friday, which, on the motion
of the Earl of StlAF'rEsßUitl was ordered to he printed.

COURT UI+CIIANCIIRY.—ECCLESIASTICAL. COURTS.
The Lotto CHANCEL LoR moved for some returns relative to
the arrear of business in the court of chancery, previously to
bringing forward a measure for remedying the existing evils.
He also crave notice that on Friday (this day) he would intro-
duce a bill fur consolidating the ecclesiastical courts of the
country.
The house then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—MortnAY.
Several petitions were presented for private bills, and others
were also laid on the table complaining of agricultural distress,
dissenters' grievances, and the tax on newspapers, and other
matters.

CARLOW ELECTION,
Colonel BRUEN gave notice that when Mr. Hardy brought
forward his motion on Thursday next he should present a peti-
tion praviug for an inquiry into the circumstances connected
with the Carlow election.

After some notices of intended motions had been given, the
house went into committee on the Kin's speech, and Lord
Jour Itessat.i. moved "That a supply be granted."—Agreed
to.

STATE OF AGRICULTURE,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL then moved that a committee, founded
upo❑ the recommendation contained iu his Majesty's speech
respecting the present state of agriculture, be appointed to take
that subject into consideration. His lordship expressed his de-
cided disapprobation of any attempt to meddle with the curren-
cy ; spoke of the relief of which the parochial minions under the
poor law act had afforded in many agricultural districts where
that measure had been carried into effect; had no wish to fetter
the inquiry, and hoped that the committee which he was pre-
pared to propose would be sufficiently comprehensive to satisfy
even the Marquis of Chandos. His lordship concluded by
moving that a committee be appointed to enquire into the state
of agricultural distress and the causes thereof.
The Marquis of CHANDOS was gratified to find that govern-
ment had taken this subject into their own hands. Ile hoped
the noble lord would appoint such a committee of country gen-
tlemen, without regaro to party or political feeling, as would
inspire the country at large with confidence in their decision.
Ile had put on paper the names of some members who he
thought ought to be on the committee, but he would wait until
the noble lord hail read his list,before he proposed any (if them.
Mr. ROEBUCK thought the cause of agricultural distress might
be traced to the extravagant habits of country gentlemen who,
iu their days of prosperity, had burthened their estates with
heavy charges. Their distress arose from their own conduct,
and not from any measures pursued by the government.
Mr. BENNETT replied that the hon. member for Bath knew
nothing about country gentlemen. They were known to be
loyal to their king and constitution, and, besides acting as ma-
gistrates, were eminently useful in all the relations of social
life.

Sir Ronßur PEEL cautioned those who were over sanguine
against anticipating any very great practical advantages from
the proposed inquiry.
At the close of a short discussion the appointment of a com-
mittee was agreed to.
Lord JohN ItessELL observed that he named thirty-three
members of the committee, of whom by far the greater propor-
tion were members for agricultural counties—there being
amongst them four members for Scotland and four for Ireland.
The noble lord then read the names, which we collected as fol-
lows : •

Sir Robert Peel, Sir James Graham, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, the
Marquis of Chaudom, Sir Gilbert Heathcote, Mr. E. Denison,
Sir Edw. Knatchbull, Lord Stanley, Mr. Sandford, Mr. Cay-
ley, Mr. Miles (of Somerset,) Lord Lincoln, Lord Howick,
Mr. C. A. Pelham, Lord F. Egerton, Mr. Evans, Sir William
Molesworth, Sir Robert Price, Lord Clive, Mr. Cooper (of
Sligo,) Mr. Sidney Herbert, Mr. Bingham Baring, Mr. P.
Thompson, Mr. W. Gordon, Sir J. Owen, Mr. Clay, Mr. Ord
(of Newcastle,) Mr. Morrison, Mr. Handley, Mr. Locke, Mr.
Dunlop, Mr. Young, the O'Connor Don.
On the motion of Mr. CA Y LEY the name of Mr. M. Atterood
was added to the committee.
he Marquis of CIIAN DOS also proposed the addition of the
names of the Earl of Darlington, Sir Charles Burrell, and Mr.
Woclehouse.
On this motion the house divided. The numbers were—for
the motion 142 ; against it 1-19. The names were consequently
rejected by a majority of 7.
His Majesty's answer to the address of the house was then
presented and read at the bar.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS.
The A. TTottsgr-GENERaL brought in a bill to amend the act
passed in the last session fur regulating municipal corpor,ltions
in England and Wales%
The same learned member brought in another bill for the
more effectual registration of persons entitled to vote in the
election of members to servo in parliament for England and
Wales.

EXPENCIIS AT ELECTIONS.
Mr. Hums brought in a bill to regulate the expenses of mem-
bers elected to serve in parliament for England and Wu!es.

LIGHT-HOUSES.
Mr.''l,l ME brought in a bill for vesting light-houses on the
coast of England in the Trinity-house of Deptford Stroud, which
was read a first time.

SLAVE COMPENSATION BILL.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER brought in a hill to
amend the act of 5 and 6 Wm. IV., cap. 45, to carry into fur-
ther execution the compensation to owners of slaves.
Adjourned at nine o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—TecspAr.
PRIVATE

On the motion of the Earl of SHAFTSBURY, it Was orderee
that no petition for private bills be received after Friday, the
2tith February (this day week), and that no report from thd
judges on private bills he received after Wednesday, April 20th.
CONFERENCE WITH THE COMMONS.

' The Duke of CLEYELANn, as one of the managers of a con-
ference with the House of Commons, relative to the best means
of promulgating the printed statutes throughout all parts of the
united kingdom, reported the following resolutions, which were
read and agreed to, viz.:—
" I.—That the resolution of the house of the 7th May, 1801,
be rescinded; and that a new scheme, founded on the principles
recommended by the committee, be adopted.
"2.—That the whole number of copies of the statutes for pro-
mulgation be printed of one uniform size.
"That the statutes for promulgation be of the royal octavo
size, continuously printed.
"4.--That, to secure the publicity and preservation of the
statutes for the use of courts and offices, such copies shall be
stamped Promulgated for public use,' and be accompanied by
a distinct notice on each volume that they belong to the sz,id
courts and offices, and are to be solely appropriated for public
use." cosisitssioNs OF PUBLIC INQUIRY.
On the motion of the Earl of WINCHILSEA, a return was
ordered, containing a list of all commissions of public inquiry,
issued under the great seal, from the Ist January, 1830, to the
Ist January, 1836, together with the names of the commis-
sioners, the amount of the salaries to the different officers, and
other incidental expenses attending the same.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENTS.

The capital punishments amendment bill was passed through
committee.

A I'POINTMENT OF MAGI%TRATES BY THE SECHETARY OF STATE.

The Marquis of SA LISR uRy moved for a return of the number
and names of the magistrates appointed by the secretary of
state, whose appointments had not been sanctioned by the lords
lieutenants Of counties in England and Wales, up to the Ist
January, 1836.—The motion was agreed to.

EXPENSI; OF WORKHOUSES.

Lord AsHatitcrols presented a PetiiiOn-iio; the guardians of
the poor of two unions in Hampshire, complaining of the great
expense thrown upon them, and suggesting_ that a portion of it
should be borne by the landlords.—The petition was laid on the
table, and the house adjourned.

paid during seven years, and spread equally all over the coun-
try ; but this person had since informed him (Lord J. Russell)
that his plan \could, its fact, chance the income of every tithe
owner in the country, and produce great disturbance of all in-
terests; and that although the arrangement would produce
satisfactory results for the future, yet in such a country as this
it was far from expedient to cause such a derangement of inter-
ests, without a case of absolute necessity existed for so doing.
He came now to another plan, which was the principle of Lord
Althorp's second bill, and by which it was proposed to take cer-
tain averages in counties, and afterwards to make them bear a
certain proportion to lent, instead of bearing, as tithes did, a
certain proportion to produce. He (Lord J. 'Russell) was one
of those who was very much takeu with the motion of making
tithes bear a certain proportion to rent, and he still thought the
principle was in the abstract just; but upon considering the
subject a difficulty lied suggested itself which he could not
overcome,and which was this, that there was no justice in con-
verting a paymeut which by law bore a proportion to produce
into one beating a proportion to rent, and forcing men into an
-engagement to which, when they made their previous arrange-
ments, they were not liable. A member of the other House of
Parliament, for whom he entertained the greatest respect, pro-
posed to obviate some of the objections to this plan by applying
one scale of commutation to all and paying the same amount
of rent, and another to other land, and so on, but that would
not be sufficient. Supposing that the same rent was fixed upon
two farms for two different reasons—one on account of the
great expense of cultivation, and the other on account of the
non-productiveness of the laud. The amount of tithes paid
upon those farms would be very different in each case,—that
in the former being, of course,- much larger than in the latter.
Having detai:ed to the House the various plans which had been
suggested, with a view to the settlement of this question, and
the objections which occurred to his mind with resoect to them,
he would now proceed to state the principle of the bill he was
now about to propose for the adoption of parliament. lie might
say that the object of his bill was in the first place to produce
as little disturbance as possible to the existing interests, and not
to diminish violently or excessively any incomes at present en-
joyed; but at the same time an attempt would be mode so to
frame its enactments that when the question came to be finally
settled
by the various parishes making their arrangements, there
should be such a similarity in these arrangements that one
parish would not, as is often a matter of complaint in Ireland,
have it in its power to say that it paid half as much again, or it
great deal more, than a neighbouring parish. It was most de-
sirable that when the question came to be settled there should
be some approach to uniformity in the terms of the settlement
throughout the kingdom. Having got the machinery whicoa he
had stated, namely,_ a board of three commissioners, one of
whoui'might be considered as representing the church, he pro-
posed, in the first instance, as the right hoh. baronet (the mem-
ber for Tamworth) did last session, that any single owner of
land might agree with any single owner of tithes for the com-
mutation of the tithes iu which they were mutually interested.
Again he proposed—and this was a provision contained in one of
Lord Althorp's bills—that where land was held upon lease, and
the owner of the land had made au agreement with the tithe-
owner, the former should come in the place of the latter, and
durinn the rethainder of the lease should stand in the relation
of tittle-owner. Ile next proposed that it should be competent
for the possessor ur possessors of one-fourth of the tithe in a
parish, to call a meeting, at which the landholders might either
appear or be represented, that at such meeting it should be in
the power of the owners of three-fourths (in value) of the tithes,
to make an agreement with the owners of laud to an equal
amount, for a commutation, which should be binding upon the
whole parish. It would further be provided that if no appeal
was suede against this agreement within a certain short period,
it should be finally and irrevocably binding upon the parish;
and also, in case any one should appeal, it should still be bind-
ing on those who might not appeal. Parties appealing would
have to appear before the assistant commissioners, who would
make an award, which, upon being confirmed by the chief com-
missioners, would constitute the agreement that would be bind-
ing upon the parish. lie likewise proposed that if at the end
of a short period, to be mentioned in the bill, say six months,
the tithe owners uud the tithe pavers in any parish should not
have entered into a voluntary agreement, any tithe owner or
landholder might ask the commissioners to make an award with
respect to that parish. The assistant commissioners would then
proceed to the parish and ascertain what hail been the amount
of tithe, or composition for tithe, with the charge for collection,
during seven yea's, and by what quantity of wheat, barley, and
oats it would be represented. Ile (lid not, however, propose
that the estimate of_ seven years declared by the assistant com-
missioners shouhr.beeeibsolutely conclusive and binding upon
either the tithe or the...land owner. it was desirable to avoid
the defect which he had already referred to, as connected with
the seven years' average, namely, that of benetitting the tithe
owners, who had been exorbitant, and almost ruining those who
had been indulgent in their exactions. It would, therefore, be
provided, that if any person should appeal to the commissioners,
on the ground that the tithe taken, or the composition fur tithe
paid, during the seven years did not fairly represent the value
of the tithe, the commissioners would then be required to make
an estimate, by regular valuation, of the actual gross value of
tithes in the parish during the seven years; and if it should
appear, that the tithe taken, or composition paid, exceeded 75
per cent. of the gross value, they must then fix the amount of
commutatiou for the future at 75 per cent. of the gross value.
What he proposed was that the maximum should not be higher
than 75, nor the minimum lower than 60; se that under all
circumstances there should be a certain provision for the
clergyman. But he proposed this, subject, of course, to
any modifications which parliament might think proper to
to adopt. His object was that in no case should the amount
strieeoctitthl
eei
mtr
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question
highest
ht
oapurlrli:d:apnobtsiteegteoe
ffuteihicxatteud
pa.
of tithe exceed a certain per centage, or fall below it.—
id
)114./
There
ae snistd
ac
oite
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si a
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ae y
a,
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aqiumeasii(eunemofeirietdNevausiputii.odne.
for Het he ociSiogalh
mutation of tithes, some measure might be devised for effecting
the principle of redemption. Indeed, it was his intention to lay
such a measure on the table, though he would not encumber
the subject now before the house with the difficulties attending,
it. He would propose that twenty-five years' pnrschase should
be the standard by which persons shoiuld be enabled to free
themselves of the charge of tithes. The noble lord here pro-
ceeded, in a low tone of voice, and in a manner by no means
perspicuous, to explain the difficulties to which he alluded. He
deprecated the principle of creating from different portions of
land what might be termed diocesan corporations, as that would
be a most dangerous species of property. Without now enter-
ing into any details as to objections that might be urged against
the principle of redemption, he would merely observe that, on
some future occasion, be would ntroduce a bill on the subjects
Ile begged, in the mean time,. to be understood that he was
not insensible to the great object which the landlords had in
view iu getting rid of the charge four tithes as soon as possible.
For the present he wished to confine himself to the rent charge,
which would secure a permanent income to the clergyman, and
at the same time enable the farmer to apply with advantage the
whole of his skill and industry to the cultivation of the soil.
He was not so presumptious as to suppose that this plan was su-
perior to any other, hut he thought that next to the poor laws
bill, which had passed last session, the question itself was the
most important that could possibly be brought forward, and he
thought that the plan might be so worked, under the prudence
and wisdom of parliament, as to prove the highest advantage to
the country at large. It would prove essentially beneficial to
the church, and no less so to the cultivators of the soil.
Sir It. PEEL said he had some questions to put to the noble
lord in reference to the important measure now before the
house. The first question he would ask him was, " Did this bill
apply to lay impropriators as well as to ecclesiastical?" He
would next ask him, " Was there to be a certain periodical va-
luation of the land and a rent charge fixed accordingly ?" In
the third place, he would ask hitn " What was the process to
which the clergyman was to resort for the recovery of his tithes,
in the event of the rent charge being in arrear ?"
Lord J. Itt-ssnee said that the same rule applied to lay im-
propriators as to ecclesiastical. There was to be a valuation of
the land every seven years, and as to the remedy for the reco-
very of the claims of the clergyman, he proposed that it should
be by distress. He did not, however, propose that this remedy
should apply to any rent charge due for a longer period than
two years.l4l. •
GISBORNE.—Does the bill apply to mineral tithes?
Lord J. Russeee.—lt applies to all.
Sir R. INGLIS said the bill provided that in no) case the max-
imum should be higher than 75, or the ;
mail-mum lower than 60.
He would now ask, upon whom was the difference of loss of 25
or 40 to fall? The interest of the church being thus sacrificed,
it was impossible it could remain in the position it now occupied.
Tithes- had existed as an uninterrupted species of property
• through a succession of fourteen or fifteen centuries, while lay
property could not count a longer date than eight hundred
years. If the tithe owner were only to get £75 Wpon
then he would say that from that moment they would estab-
lish a principle which was fatal to all property. For his own
part he decidedly objected to the general principle of the bill.
Mr. PALMER wished to know from the noble lord if the bill
was intended to apply to parishes already commuted?
Lord J. Russet et. said it
,wieseniat.
Sir ROBERT PEEL obseritOd:that it was important the law
should be clearly laid down eh the subject of tithes, es otherwise
they would be presenting to posterity various conflictiug pre-
cedents. The noble lout had made some advances towards
agreeing with him (Sir It. Peel) as to the course which ought
to be pursued with regard to the tithe question. Ile did not
complain of the noble lord's plagiarism in adopting the whole
of the machinery of the bill which he (Sir R. Peel) had intro-
duced last session. (Hear.) He only wished that the noble
lord had adopted it altogether. (A laugh.) As the noble lord
invited contributions from all quarters, he (Sir R. Peel) was
inclined to bring in a bill for a voluntary commutation of tithes.
In his opinion such a bill would materially assist the noble lord. •
The noble lord had also proposed, that, if the parties did not
come to a settlement within six months, the compulsory princi-
ple should be applied. Ile (Sir R. Peel) Would not object to
compulsion, if compulsion were necessary;
.but the advantage
of his plan was this, that it did not, like that of the nob le lord,
press. elbe to parliament a principle on which, in the event of
the failure of voluntary commutation, the compulsory principle
should be acted-upon. If the compulsory principle were once
laid down, it would be must important that it should be for ever
after rigidly 'adhered to. He amid not help thinking,, consider-
ing the variety of the laws, the various ways in which different
parties were circumstanced, that voluntary agreements would be
pie • ferable. The noble lord said that he wished every parish
to be placed on the same footing, and that hereafter no parish
should be enabled to say they were on a different footing with
respect to tithe from their neighbour. One parish might be
paying. GO per cent., and another 75 per cent.; and one might
Übe paying the actual amount of payment for seven years, de-
pendent on the forbearance of the clergyman. Therefore the
noble lord's own bill would fall short of his object, viz., the
securing a uniformity of payments, and would occasion its con-
tiguous parishes a different amount of payment. There were
many • points connected with the noble lord's bill which were not
sufficiently, explained; probably they would be best understood
when the bill should be presented. 'But. if there should appear
to the house good reason to believe that experience of the at-
tempt at voluntary commutation would supply us with very
valuable information to determine how a system of compulsion
should be applied, in that case he (Sir R. Peel) trusted he
might be permitted to present his bill for effecting a commutes
Lion of tithe in the first instance, proceeding on the voluntary
principle; and that, if the house felt it important to make some
progress towards the settlement of that question, then, seeinm
the difficulties of the adoption of the noble lord's plan, he hoped
the house would not feel indisposed in the course of ie present
session to make a fair experiment of the principle of voluntary
commutation.

After a short discussion, leave was given to bring in the bill.
REGISTRATIoN OF ALIENS.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved for, and obtained leave to bring
in a bill fur the registration of aliens.

FEES OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. fluslE moved, alter a short speech, in which he recapitu-
lated the sums levied upon members by the servants of the
house, "That all payments made by members for the delivery
of sessional papers from the vote-office, all gratuities paid to
doorkeepers, messengers, and superintendents of the members'
waiting-room, shall cease."
The motion was carried by a majority of 78; 171 voting for,
and 93 against it.

TAXATION OF THE COUNTRY.
11r. ROBINSON laid on the table the following resolutions re-
lative to taxation, and moved that they be printed with the votes
of the house :

" 1. That the public income is raised by taxes imposc.d during