The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1847-02-02 00:00:00

ANTI-STATE CHURCH ASSOCIATION.

On Tuesday evening a public meeting to explain and
advocate the objects of this association was held in the
Music Hall ; LAWRENCE HEYWORTH, Esq., in the chair.
It had been announced that three gentlemen, Dr. Price,
editor of the Eleetie kviesv, E lward Maill, Esq., of the
Nonconformist, and the Rev. D. Rhys Stephen, of Man-
chester, would attend as a deputation from the Executive
Committee. The room was crowded to excess, and it
soon became evident that a large portion of the audience
were hostile to the object of the meeting, and great up-
roa r and disturbance eventually ensued.
The CHAIRMAN implored the audience to listen calmly
to the facts and arguments that would be produced.
Mr. URQUHART complained, in the first instance, of
the interruptions, and amidst the shouts, cries, &c., it
was some time before he could proceed. He finally
moved, "That this meeting hold that the principle of the
British Anti-State Church Association lies at the basis of
all just views of civil and religious liberty,—namely, that
in regard to religious faith, man is accountable to God
alone; and that the support of religious institutions by
State enactments and provisions, ultimately involving in
their very nature a resort to compulsion, is at variance
with the laws of God, and with the responsibility of man."
Mr. Urquhart spoke to the resolution in figurative and
generally guarded terms, but was listened to with impa-
tience and interrupted by frequent ejaculations.
Mr. SIMMONS begged for free discussion, saying he
would himself move an amendment. (Cheers.)
The Rev. D. RHYS STEPHEN seconded the resolution,
but was less fortunate in semring attention than even Air.
Urquhart. The uproar continued to increase.
Mr. Stmmows then spoke, and was listened to with at-
tention. He said that if the church establishment was an
evil at all, it was a necessary evil, and should be main-
tained, he contended, as long as other religious parties
held they had a right to be supported by the state. He
concluded by proposing an amendment, to the effect that
the Church of England was the most tolerant church in
Christendom, and the only security against the reacting
of the drama of ,Smithfield.
This having been seconded, the CHAIRMAN put the re-
solution and amendment, and declared the former to be
carried ; but several gentlemen who were present, con
sider the amendment to have been carried.

Dr. PRICE then proceeded to speak, but was interrupted
at every, sentence, and addressed himself almost exclu-
sively to the .reporters. He explained the origin of the
Anti-State Church Association. It was formed, he said,.
in 1844, in London, at a public meeting attended by seven
hundred persons.
Mr. MIALL spoke on polemics. In the course of his
address he challenged to discussion the Rev. H. M`Neile.
The CH AIRMAN then declared the meeting closed; but
the people did not retire, nor the excitement abate. The
gas was lowered ; and after various parties had attempted
to speak from the platform, the Kentish fires were given,
and the meeting finally broke up.
[A correspondent who signs " Fair Play" assures us
that, in his opinion, the amendment was carried, and
another correspondent deprecates very justly the shame-
ful insinuation indulged in by one of the speakers, that
the Rev. Hugh M•Neile was the instigator of the oppo-
sition, when it was well known that the reverend gentle-
man was in Ireland, and had been there for some time
previously. He could not, therefore, by any possibility,
have been acquainted with the intended opposition to the
meeting. Indeed, few persons were aware of it, or the
demonstration would have been more •narked anti decided.
A third correspondent regrets that any interruption at all
was offered to the speakers, but of course on this point
there will be a diversity of opinion.]

MEETING OF THE SELECT VESTRY.
The usual fortnightly meeting was held on Tuesday, the
mßiesysioßneecrt:arnd a
Campbell in
board,i
ntwheercehpairre.senTth. e Rev. Rector
Brooks, Mr. Alf. Austin, the Assistant Poor-law Com-
After, some preliminary business, the clerk read the re-
port of the Relief Committee, from which it appeared
that the total amount of relief given last week was £3OO
12s. 61d. ; and in the corresponding week of last year, it
was £26 6s.—making an excess of £274 6s. 61-d,
After some ordinary business, Mr. Schofield introduced
the question of the propriety of petitioning parliament to
adopt measures to relieve the parish of Liverpool from
being mulcted by.lrish vagrants, as it had lately been,
and he moved the adoption of a petition to parliament,
stating that because Liverpool was the most convenient
place for the landing of the Irish paupers, that ought not
to be a reason for fastening on Liverpool a great portion
of the expense caused by a national calamity, and praying
the legislature to adopt some means to do away with the
evil to which the parishioners of Liverpool-are liable.
The motion, having been seconded, led to a short dis-
cussion.

Mr. AUSTIN said that it was just possible that when
the vestry petitioned to parliament they might, In all pro-
bability, be told that they had taken no steps to relieve
themselves.

Mr. FERGUSON said he thought they would not suc-
ceed in doing good except they called a public meeting of
the parishioners, and gave them an opportunity of decid-
ing upon the steps which they would take, and he thought
that a petition from a meeting of the parishioners would
have far more weight than if it was merely sent as the
petition of the vestry. Every person sympathised with
the people on account of the great calamity which had
befallen Ireland ; but it must be borne in mind that the
meeting had a duty to perform to the parishioners, inde-
pendent of the Irish. The vestry had to protect the
pockets of the parishioners, and if they were to go on re-
lieving 130,000 Irish cases in one week, they would incur
a serious amount of responsibility.
The Rev. Rector BROOKS thought that the vestry being
more of a deliberative assembly, their opinion would have
a greater weight with parliament than a petition from a
public meeting.
Mr. EARLE recommended that the vestry should lose
no time, but should at once petition parliament, as the
magistrates intended to do at their meeting, which would
be held on Wednesday.

The Rev. CHAIRMAN said that he should be sorry to
say anything that might be calculated to check or to freeze
the genial current of charity that was flowing in the
direction of Ireland at the present time : but it was a posi-
tive fact that with the amount of destitution that de-
manded relief, there was an amount of fraud and impos-
ture that demanded the greatest caution in investigating.
The rev. gentleman gave two instances of deception by
Irish impostors—which we gave in a former number.
The rev. g-entleman concluded by stating, that it was a
great hardship upon Liverpool to support tens of thou-
sands of Irish. In the Isle of Man there was a law, that
any captain of a vessel bringing paupers to that island,
should lit-1 liable to keep them.
The Rev. Rector BROOKS gave another instance of im-
posture by the wife of a man who earned, last week at his
work, the sum, of £1 17s. 6d. He suggested that the
practice of indiscriminate alms-giving should be discon-
tinued, and that relief should be given through the Pro-
iident Society.
Mr. AUSTIN, the Assistant Poor-law Commissioner,
said he had some information to give which would show
that the imposture which had been referred to must be
much greater than any one suspected. On the 12th of
January the number of applications for relief was 10,074 ;•
on the 22nd they were 24,330, which showed an increase
of 14,256. Between these two days—on the 13th of Ja-
nuary the Police were stationed to watch the boats which
arrived from Ireland and to count with great accuracy the
number of Irish who landed. From the 13th to the 22nd
of January inclusive the number of Irish who arrived was
7,403 ; consequently the applications for relief from 6,853
persons would not be applications from Irish vagrants, for
that number had not arrived to make up the 14,250 who
had applied for relief on the 22nd over and above those
who were relieved on the 12th January. The number of
men who were relieved on the 22nd over the, 12th, was
2,631, and those who arrived were 4,498, consequently
1867 Irishmen had arrived who were not relieved. That
number, 1867, he would add to the 6,853, whom he had
stated had not arrived, and that would number 8,720 who
were relieved, and who had not arrived by the boats be-
tween the 12th and 22nd of January. The excess of wo-
men relieved between those days was 2,311, and the num-
ber who had not arrived was 1,755, which made 1,056 who
applied for relief and did not arrive between those days.
He also found that there was an excess of 8,814 children ;
for within the time alluded to only 1,150 had arrived from
Ireland. Therefore, there were 7,664 children relieved
who had not arrived from Ireland between the 12th and'
22nd of January.
The statement of Mr. Austin created great surprise ;
and he stated he had no earthly doubt of its truth.
The petition was then agreed to, and it was ordered to
be forwarded to Lord Sandon for presentation, and that a
request'should be made to Sir Howard Douglas and the
members of the
.southern division of the county to sup-
port it. A memorial to the government was also adopted.
Mr. AUSTIN stated that he had a return of the number
of passengers arrived from Ireland in a state of destitu-
tion between the 13th and 25th January. That number
was 10 -24, Of which - number only 1823 were children ,•
6368 ' men, and 2533 women. Now the number of
child n who had arrived was less than that of women,
ire
whilst the number of children relieved was four times as

many as the women. This suggested the notion that
fraud had ben practised to a great extent, and it also
suggested to him (Mr. Austin). that it had been encou-
raged by the lax way in which relief had been granted at
the office. It had had the effect of bringing people to
apply for relief, and he felt sure that ithey had Irish poor
enough of their own without the extra number of appli-
cants. In the 24,000 cases which had been relieved,
rrearly one-third of the relief had gone to people who
ought not to have had it without inquiry. Last week
the relief given cost £378, or, in round numbers, £400;
and one-third or a quarter went to persons who ought
not to receive it. Now a hundred pounds would provide
an army of relieving officers, and, he would propose that a
number of relieving officers be appointed. He would not
mention the number; he would leave that to the vestry.
The next point for consideration was the destitute sick,
and it was necessary that some place should be prepared
for their reception. He stated, on the authority of Mr.
Cripp3, that disease was increasing, and gave an account
of the destitute condition of the in some streets,
particularly Lace-street, where he had found 41 people
in one house. In order to check the increasing demand
for relief, the outdoor system of relief must be resorted
to) and some premises must be procured for that purpose.
After a short discussion, a committee was appointed to
carry out the heads of Mr. Austin's recommendations,
and the board separated, after the case of Mr. Blanchard
had been referred to the Finance Committee.