The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-03-03 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.—TaintspAr.

After the presentation of many petitions,
Mr.. ORD presented a report from the elections committee,
regarding the " Ludlow" petition, as to alleged irregularity
in the service of notices. The report was ordered to be
printed, and to be taken into consideration on Thursday.
:Colonel SIBTHORP asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer
whether he should consider it consistent with his duty to re-
lieve the public mind on a point as to which some anxiety
was entertained—namely,whether the new taxes, which it was
understood would be proposed to the house, would include
the duty on salt.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that he
thought the house would see the impropriety of answering
such a question. At the same time he assured the house
that he was anxious to bring forward the budget as soon as
possible after the conclusion of the financial year.
Sir G. CLERK called attention to irregularity in the issuing
of the Perthshire writ—a second having been forwarded to
correct irregularity in the one first sent by the Crown-office,
and it was ordered, Mr. Fox Maule seconding the motion,
that the Clerk of the Crown attend the house, to explain the
circumstance. _ _ _

Sir E. WILMOT having inquired whether the government
would take command of the juvenile offenders' (summary
jurisdiction) bill,
Mr. Fox MAULS said that, though he should attend to it
in the select committee, he was not at present prepared to
undertake to superintend so important a bill as a government
measure.

Mr. EWART moved for a series of returns re•TO. m ardin the
0
aurt of eornmon Pleas, and which mo-
tion was agreed to.
Mr. WALLACE brought forward the subject of establishing
post-offices in villages, &c., not at present having them, but
withdrew his motion for the present, in order to enable the
chief establishment and authorities to carry out their own
plans.
Sir R. PEEL thereupon inquired when it was expected the
post-office would be able to introduce for general use the
proposed stamped covers.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he regretted
that he could not fix a day for introducing the covers gene-
rally. Ile intended to introduce them first into the local
districts for the sake of experiment, and then, having some
little experience there of the difficulty, he should be able to
introduce them generally with greater advantage to the pub-
lic. There had been some mechanical failures in making the
designs, that had delayed them longer than he expected. He
hoped to be able within three weeks to introduce them into
the limits of the twopenny post.
Sir R. PEEL asked whether the government did not mean
to make the experiment at first beyond the old limits of the
local districts 1 . _

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rejoined, that he
did not refer to any particular division of the penny or two-
penny post, but he should make the experiment in this way
first, that he might have experience of its working.
Mr. WARBURTON suggested that such experiment should
also be tried in the local districts of Edinburgh and Dublin.
Mr. WALLxct hoped that the stamped covers would not
be issued at all until they were generally issued.
Mr. LANGDALE moved an address to her Majesty, " to
direct the commissioners for.the asylum schools of Chelsea,
Southampton, and Greenwich, to make such modifications
in the regulations therein in force, as may secure to the chil-
dren of Catholic and Protestant dissenting soldiers and sai-
lors, if duly qualified, the benefit of those establishments
without the sacrifice of their religion."
Mr. MACAULAY said he must oppose the motion, but un-
dertook to inquire into the subject, and to afford all practical
remedy ; whereupon Mr. Langdale withdrew his motion.

THIRD DEFEAT OF MINISTERS THIS SESSION.
Mr. LIDDELL then rose to- move the resolutions of which
he had given notice respecting the Rice and Newport job.
He began by some comments upon the amendment of which
notice had been given by Lord Morpeth. That amendment,
he said, was incorrect in representing Sir John Newport's
withdrawal from public life as having been subsequent to his
acceptance of the controllership • for, in fact, the office was
not given to bins till after his public renunciation of political
life. The amendment alleged that the grant could not be
drawn into a precedent. He preferred his own form of words,
that it ought not to be so drawn ; let drawn it would be, unless
this house should now deal with the subject. The controller's
office was one which should be independent of the crown ;
but where would be its independence, if the crown were thus
to hold out pensions to its occupiers ? Public services were
of two kinds, parliamentary and official. The house had al-
ready expressed itself adverse to the principle of rewarding
parliamentary services by pensions; and as to services of an
official kind, the analogy of the act respecting official pensions
was applicable, which required a tenure of at least two years.
The amount, too, the proportion of £lOOO. out of the total
11200. disposable, was much to be disapproved ; to give
four-fifths to ,one individual was to leave but 1200. in the
whole year forrthe reward of merit in other departments.
The present resolutions were certainly mild, but they would
affirm two great principles—that of the independence of the
controller, and that of adherence to the legitimate objects of
the pension list.
The following were resolutions :
That it appears, by a copy of a warrant on the table of this
house, that a pension of £lOOO. a-year has been granted by
her majesty to the late Controller of the Exchequer on re-
tirement from that office, on the ground of " zealous and
efficient services rendered to the pUblic during a period of
nearly half a century, in which interval of time he filled the
offices of Chancellor of the Exchequer for Ireland, and Con-
troller-General of the Exchequer for the United Kingdom."
That it appears that the said Controller-General of the
Exchequer filled the office of Chancellor of the Exchequer
for Ireland during the period of thirteen months only, viz.
from theinonth of February, 1806, to the month of April, 1807.
That it appears by reference to the act 4 ancls William IV.,
c. 21 (by which the granting of pensions for political services
was regulated), that no person is qualified to receive any pen-
sion on the ground of public duties performed in the highest
offices of the state, unless he shall have continued in the per-
formance of such duties for a period of two years at the least.
That it appears that it was also specially provided by the
said act 4 and 5 William IV., c. 21, that the holder of the
office of Controller of the Exchequer should be precluded
on his retirement from that office, from all claim to any of
the pensions which the crown was thereby empowered to be-
stow for civil or political services.
That it appears that the person: holding the office of con-
troller of the exchequer now constitutes the sole check (in lieu
of all others formerly existing under the ancient regulations of
the exchequer) on the expenditure of all public monies issued
through the exchequer by the authority of the commissioners
of the Treasury ' • and it is specially provided that he should
be incapable of holding any other office under the crown in
conjunction with such controllership, and should be irremov-
able from his office except in pursuance of an address from
the two houses of parliament ; this officer being thus with
drawn from the exercise of any influence of the crown over
him in the discharge of his functions.
That it appears that provision was made in the act 1 and 2
Vic. c. 2, that the sum which her majesty might be empow-
ered to grant in.spensions on the civil list, in any one year,
should nut exceed,the sum of 11200; and that, in conformi-
ty with a previoi4, resolution of this house, such pensions
should be granted " to such persons only as might have just
claims on the royal beneficence, or who, by their personal
services to the crown, by the performance of duty to the pub-
lic, or by their useful discoveries in science, and attainments
in literature and the arts, had merited the gracious conside-
ration of the sovereign, and the gratitude of the country."
That, considering all these circumstances, and more espe-
cially the great importance of keeping the Comptroller-Ge-
neral of the Exchequer independent of the influence of the
Crown, as also of ensuring a strict adherence to the spirit
of the resolution of this house on the subject of civil list
pensions. this house deems it expedient to express its decided
opinion that the grant ofllooo a year to Sir John Newport
under the warrant before mentioned, ought not to be drawn
into a precedent.
Lord MORFETH begun with a few facetious flourishes ; re-
joiced that this motion was all which the great opposition
could bring against the government; boasted of " the fight
which ministers had shown," and treated the proposed reso-
lutions as a specimen of " didactic twaddle," the fate of which
was really, in his opinion, a matter of no sort of importance.
Ile denied that Sir John Newport had retired to make way
for Lord Monteagle, and this denial he desired to make on
behalf of all the parties concerned in the transaction. Sir
John bad put his office into Lord Melbourne's hands in
1839, and Sir Robert Peel, if his ministry had then been more
than momentary, would have found the place at his absolute
disposal. Lord Melbourne returning the power postponed
the acceptance of the resignation till the close of the session.
The office had, in the mean time, been offered to another
person, and as to Mr. Rice, it was well known that at that
time his views were directed to' the chair of the house. The
controllership was excluded, andproperly from the right to
a pension; but was it therefore
to be said, that all claims
from former services were to be defeated by a holding of it?
The tories had themselves granted many pensions much less
justifiable. Lord Morpeth then have the. history of Sir
John's merits, beginning gravely with the fact that at Eton
young Newport had had Lord
usel
tr, d some other emi-
nentgshoo welll life. that
Sit all
Chancellor of
noblemen for his fags, and Wellesley
parties bad continued on friendly terms thereoeinun
John had come into Parliament and been
the Irish Exchequer, had made a great many' il e useful'.is courtso
psaerrtvices,
i
mo-
tions, and saved, by a measure for returning t
of law, an amount of £75,000 per annum. But his
continued Lord Morpeth, having been fur the most
par-
liamentary rather than official, it was thought by some tai
the rewara should be voted by Parliament itself. This course,
lie thought was open to two objections—the addition of a
burden beyond the amount of the civil list, and the danger
of canvassing in the house. As to the complaint that others
awnityh good claims were
_left urpro.s.-ided.for, he deprecated
of the Urown s discretion in selecting the
objects of its bounty. Los Morpeth's amendment was as
follows :
of chancellorhe
That it appears to this house that the Right
ofHon. t Sir
John Newport, in his official capacity
exchequer in Ireland, exerted himself to the utmost to re-
eldrueclaattlidona,nacintdhetootihme;
sptrroavi
en
trade
e s s
and ex pi
ne nt
esrecso, u
rt to
epbr oe
tmwoeteen
hnserdtsitoecfttehde,
aUnndi taefdterKiienagvdcno
gm
o;
ffi that atu•
suggested,ile thevar
osuaisdoffice
inqui-
ries which led to the adoption by parliament of measures
and beneficial to the revenue ?: that after serving for five
being theli
infirmity, withd • •
highly conducive to the better adruinistration of the law,
years in the honourable office of controller
andof the exchequer,
bodily
the unblemished upwardspublic life, respected for
inteogfrieitghty years of age, afflicted with
oe withdrew o u
retire-
ment the remainder of hisY
withdrew from office, this houses issatis
days. That, considering that Sir
John New was not in affluent circumstances when he thus
fi character,ed tt
that
a't pass
t.hei ingrant
o f
a pension to a retired controller cf the th ex''equer in circum-
stances so peculiar cannot be drawn into a
precedent in favour
of persons who have not •• just claims on the royal benefi-
cence," and are not distinguished
cico'n"tended that the pension to Sir John
by "the perfoimance
of
Ile concluded
ed
duties toLEthAeppEtßibl
withwi the ap-
pointment of Lord Monteagle.
Newport could- only be viewed in connection
observ-
ing, that it was a job, and not only a job, but a jobperpetrated I
by those who professed a great abhorrence of jobs.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM did not cavil at Sir John Newport's 1
appointment when it took place, though he certainly thought
it an objectionable appointment ; but he complained of minis- •
ters keeping open the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer i
from April, 1839, to the end of September, in order that it •
might be given to Lord Monteagle. The right hon. baronet I
proceeded to detail the financial blunders committed by Lord
Monteagle, while chancellor of the exchequer. This, he
said, was no attack upon Sir John Newport, but a direct

charge against her majesty's ministers. The resolutions
declared, that if this act of the government were to be drawn
into a precedent, it would be subversive of that independence
of the office of comptroller of the exchequer which parliament
declared should be incidental to that office, and that was a
declaration which he trusted the house would not hesitate to
affirm.

Lord Jorric RUSSELL reproached Sir James Graham with
the ungenerous manner in which he had attacked a for-
mer colleague, unable, from his absence, to defend him-
self. I should have thought (said the noble lord) that
the right honourable gentleman would have recollected,
with some gratitude, the able, zealous, and eloquent speeches
which Mr. Spring Rice made in defence of that government,
when the right hon. gentleman so often shrunk from his
duty hi-Maintaining its acts.—(Vehement cheers.) He dwelt
on the services rendered by Lord Monteagle to the govern-
ment, and observed, that if the right honourable gen-
tleman ventured (which I am sure he never did) to make
such an attack as he had indulged in to-night, on my noble
friend's conduct of the financial affairs of the country, he
would have met such an answer as would probably have de-
terred 'him from repeating it. (Loud cheers.) As to Mr.
Ellis, he was deemed by Lord Althorp (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) to be unsuited for the controllership., Lastly,
when so much had been said about showing fight, and the
house had been reminded of the two occasions where minis-
ters were in a minority, how came it that the great debate
of four nights was not referred to, where ministers had been
triumphant, discomtitting their opponents on every side ?
Sir ROBERT PEEL, with much warmth, vindicated Sir
James Graham, and reminded the house how often Sir
James's value had been acknowledged and praised by his for-
mer colleague, Lord John, who now, stung by his speech,
ventured to accuse him of shrinking from his duty. Sir
James had shrunk indeed ; but it was not from duty, it was
from office, which he felt he could no longer conscientiously
hold when the appropriation clause was made an essential
question. For his own part he respected Sir John Newport,
but he could not consent that the ministers should shelter
their misconduct under Sir John's fair character. If the
amendment of Lord Morpeth were adopted, the very conse-
quences of which that amendment denied the possibility would
be sure to follow—that it would be drawn into a precedent.
Every future controller whom a minister might want to pen-
sion off, would be found to have done some public services or
other, which would serve to take him out of the general ob-
jection against pensioning controllers.
Mr. Hump) said, it had been declared by Lord Althorp that
the pension list was not to be applied to political purposes.
In the present matter, the public impression was, that the
vacancy had been created on purpose. He would fain have
seen the letter in which Sir John Newport first tendered his
resignation. _ _ _

Lord Joux RUSSELL repeated, that the fairness of the
transaction was vouched not only by Sir John himself, but by
Lord Melbourne and Lord Duncannon
Aolle uI tut.
T. 1..
went to save a shilling to the public. It was certainly a gross
job ; but he approved neither the resolution nor the amend-
ment, and in that state of circumstances he should vote with
that party which he thought most useful to the country.
Mr. WYNN said a few words against the motion, which,
therefore, were well received by the few whigs, who sat near
enough to him to collect his sentences with accuracy.
Mr. LIDDELL shortly replied, and the house then divided,
when the ministers were defeated by what ought to be the
fatal majority of TWENTY-ElGHT—the numbers being 240
and 212. The announcement of the numbers was received
with tremendous cheering.
Lord MORPETH, with a. very long face, and in a tone of
voice very difTerent from that in which he delivered himself
of his schoolboy oration in the early part of the evening, was
understood to fix the further dismission of the Irish munici-
pal bill in committee for the ensuing evening.
Colonel SIDTHOILP thought the noble lord could hardly be
serious,'as the ministers would of course resign in consequence
of the vote to which the house had just come. The members
on and behind the Treasury benches expressed their anguish
at this suggestion by cries of " Oh, oh,' which were drowned
in approving shouts of " Hear, hear," from other parts of
the house.

The house adjourned at a quarter past twelve o'clock.

HOUSE OF LORDS.-FRIDAY

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY stated that he should,
on Tuesday, present a petition regarding the municipal cor-
porations of Ireland; and that he should then put questions
to members of the administration as to the principles on
which they intended to carry on the government, after what
had taken place " elsewhere."
Lord STRANGFORD presented a petition from merchants
relative to the African trade, and moved for papers relating
to the " French aggressions" on the British trade on that
coast. _

Lord MELBOURNE opposed the motion, as negotiations
were proceeding which he hoped would secure indemnifica-
tion for the British merchants. He complained of the lan-
guage of the petition as being very like the noble lord's own
composition.

Lord STRANGFORO declared that he knew nothing of the
petition until it was sent to him for presentation.
The Earl of ABERDEEN recommended the withdrawal of
the motion under the peculiar circumstances, and it was with-
drawn accordingly.
Lord ASHBURTON inquired whether the commission to
investigate the complaints of the inhabitants of Portendic
was to sit in London or in Paris ? •
Lord MELBOURNE answered in Paris.
Their lordships then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.--FRIDAr.

Mr. LEADER complained of not having had an opportu•
nits to bring forward his motion regardingTrost, Williams
and Jones, and inquired whether it was true that the vesse:
containing them had sailed?

Lord J. RussELL answered in the affirmative.
Mr. LEADER intimated that he should still persevere in hii
motion. (It is fixed for Tuesday.)
Sir G. CLERK, (after the clerk of the crown, &c. had been
examined at the bar as to the transmission of two writs for
Perthshire) said that he should not press any motion regard-
ing the irregularity in issuing a second writ, his only object
being to guard against such a proceeding being drawn into
precedent.
The report of the controverted elections committee, regard-
ing alleged irregular services of notices, was taken into con-
sideration, and persons were examined at the bar on the
subject. The further consideration of the subject was, at
length, deferred till Monday.
The house then again resolved into committee on the mu-
nicipal corporation (Ireland) bill, the desultory discussions
in which occupied some time.
The report was ordered to be received on Monday.
The house then resolved into committee of supply, in which
Mr. MORE O'FERRALL brought forward the remaining navy
estimates. Considerable, but desultory discussion, arose
thereon.

Sir G. CLERK adverted to the difficulty that, he was aware,
had arisen in manning the navy, and suggested that there
should be an arrangement to allow those who held long-ser-
vice pensions to re-enter the navy, if so disposed and still
able, without forfeiting such pensions.
Captain PECHELL and others concurred in the policy of
such an arrangement, adding, that when there was jealousy
existing among various powers, it was important that our
ships should always have their full complements of men.
The several resolutions proposed on the estimates were
agreed to.