The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1846-03-03 00:00:00

Mr. Hornby, and others contended that it was quite. pro- He for one held the opidon that the Dock Committee
per to refer to the Chairman's printed speech, which might was not a committee of the Council, inasmuch as parties
be considered a sort of official statement of the grounds on sat in the Dock Committee who were elected by the rate-
which the proposed measure was based. payers, over whom the Council had no jurisdiction.
The MAYOR being t t length appealed to, his worship Mr. H. HORNBY thought it desirable that the que-
decided that the remarks of Mr. Evans were out of order should be raised, for if they shirked the quee
as applied to the preamble, because the Council having at appear as if the Council dr übted their powers.
its former meeting agreed upon the principle of dock ex- Town-clerk held that the power of originating hr.
tension, 'hey could not, without specific notice for that rested entirely with the Council.
purpose, again entertain the question. Mr. Evans' re- Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE concurred with Mr. Hornbye
marks, however, would be perfectly in order on the The Dock Committee was merely a committee of that
clauses. His worship concluded by eepr, ssine the desire Council in matters of this sort. On the present occasie
he felt that the fullest discussion should take pl. C 3, while he th ught they were entitled to " instruct" the
_ ______
at the same time, when appealed to, he felt bound to main- mittee. _-
',kiwi.- e. • --
ta i n the proper order of their deliberations. The TOWN-CLERIC said it was perfectly clew,
genTtliieemqeunesvtoiotendwfoa
rs
The preamble was then agreed to, as was also clause 1, the measure was an Act of Parliament it was the
which proposed to enact that all recited acts, except when the Council and not of the Dock Committee. ' -
put from the chair, and the following
repealed, eltered,or otherwise provided far, should extend Mr. HEYDERSON contended that the locality of the
Mr. Alderman Turner'
to the proposed act. new docks was not a desirsb!e one for warehouses.
struct upon the lands described in the plan and book of no gentleman recording
the Clause
trustees
s by's. ri
Is havet he
n powerread.
;ol Tc
oh na .t.
his vote otharwis 0 nose
reference, deposited with the clerk of the peace, or upon had spoken against it retired)—namely, Mesirs. Allier.
any part thereof, such wet docks and basins, with piers, ton, Thornhill, Houghton. Chain es Pa' bbone. Hill,
&c.. and other works necessary to support and complete Evans, Tyrer, Middletnn, Littledale, 'Aikin, J. Holmes,
the same, and with entrances communicating with the H. flornbv. Tinne. Robinson, Sothern, G. G. Hornby,'
other docks and with the river Mersey, according to such Royden, Wood, Kaye, Read,., Kilehaw, Biggins, Parker
forms and plans,and of such dimensions, and of such mate- Earle, G. H. Lawrence, Booker, Mann, T. Lloyd.
rials, and with such surrounding walls and other conve- Houghton, gene J. Lawrence, Sir T. Brancker. Turner,
niences as the trustees shall deem necessary and proper." Sands, Nicol, Bramley-Moore, Molyneux, Chilton, and
Mr. EVANS t hen sta 'ed that he objected to the enormous the Mayor.
cost of the work, which be contended would amount to The TOWN CLERK then proceeded to read the different
at least a million and a half of money, there being no clauses of the bill. On clause two being read Mr
equivalent in the ships going inland. He objected also EVANS rroposed the following amendment :
on the ground of the inconvenience to the other vessels, "That the trustees shall have power forthwith, if "
which would be occasioned by the passing thrcush the think it necessary, to erect warehouses, with al,
nifences, on the quays of thefnew docks, pro-
docks of ships going from one end of the town to the
other. He objected again on the ground that they did of
Ls:l4-a' rsnesl to rlaolasier aonsuolVseemur"PortheeN
not want open docks, and in reply to the allegation of the paid for out of surplus income:.
cl:air man that the new docks were already eccupied in find convenient, provided that r.
ima:zinat ion, he said they a ere adding 81 acres to 108, be emended for this purpose in e.n
b
which were as many as they could reasonably calculate on "If the restriction e removed, 1,
dks."
being wanted. old
This led to some discussion as to the compact between
Mr. Alderman Moorte said he had received many corn- the Warehouse Association and the Dock Committee,
olirnents for the ternstaent he bad
the honour of makin
when Mr. Bramlev-Moore said he was authorised to state,
paid ton a recent occasion but t
because he greatest
dealingdirt all
observations, having bad plenty of time to consider them, gentleman who had drawn up the resolution ceme to by
the warehouse owners, and also by several of that body,
he had not only affirmed, but doubly affirmed, what he that they withdrew, their opposition to the repeal of the
had then stated. Mr. Evans had ssid that the advantages
two clauses prohibiting the building of warehouses. Under
to be derived by internal communication would not be these circumstances, he should not object to the proposal
compensated by the great expense, and that during a
of Mr. Evans, provided the Deck Comniittee were not re-
forty years' residence in Liverpool e had known of no
strieted according to the terms of the latter part of the
accidents. Why, within the last two months, a vessel
proceeding from the Queen's to the Prince's Dock was resolution'
car :zed in her way. Such accidents were very frequent.
There being some doubt as to the extent of the conces-
Mr. AIRIN —Was it in the river or in the dock ? sion of the warehouse owners, at the suggestion of the
mayor, tire resolution mune to by that body on the 3rd
Mr. B. Moons.—ln the basin ; but if she lad net
been sent into the river and exposed to the wind she February was read by the town-clerk.
would not have capsized. Again. Mr. Evans says he Mr' HA kIIORD said, as one of the Warehouse Owners'
can pass his vessels cheaper through the river, that is for Association, lie must say there did not appear to him to
305.; if lie 11 ds that to be the case that privilege will he the understanding amongst them alluded to by Mr.
not be teken away from him. What said a majority of theFlramley Moore. What was understood by them was that
I
ship owners? why, that ships should not go into the river. •f they (the warehouse owners) withdrew their objection
The complaints made were numerous and frequent on this to the completion of the Aibert Dock warehouses, it
head. Mr. Evans made one or two observations on the would prevent their having a wholesale scheme to contend
timber trade to endeavour to invalidate what he had pre-
with.
viously said. Ho remarked that the timber trade was a Mr.
not thought the concession of the warehouse
owners did not go to the extent of withdrawing the re-
losing trade to the deck estate. That the whole dock
T-I,icttisrs altogether-in fact the Dock Committee did not
-state produced on an average £2OOO per acre per year.

D it would
The late

thnt

amendenen

) great

ily to tbt

,• _ .
So far from the timber trade being a losing trade he
would take the Brunswick dock, which produced £46,000.
Therefore if the whole estate produced only £2OOO an
acre, it was quite clear that nearly £2OOO per acre must
be taken from the Brunswick dock to make up the
deficiency of the others. With a view to show that the
Brunswick dock produced a much larger amount than
any of the other docks, he read the following statement

Rsk tor mere than relasaL.
Dock warehouses and wenn,—
the nroposed dock.
Mr. R ATil BONE asked what was the impression.
The MAYOR said impressions could not be taken in
preference to words, when there was a doubt as to im-

n so far at, related to the Alberi

og the east side of

pressions

The TOWN-CtraK s

gzested that it w

ed with a

of the receipts:—Clarence and Trafalgar docks £13,142;
Victoria and Waterloo £C5.781 ; Prince's £37,049 ;
George's £8169 ; Canning £3935; Saltbouse £7804 ;
King's £15.407 ; Queen's (partially a timber dock)
£20,283 ; Coburg and Union £12,396 ; Brunswick
£16,318 ; Toxteth £2167 ; Harrington £312. He
appealed to the Council whether his statement was not
borne out to the letter; that this dock did not only pr.-
duce the largest amount, but even 33 per cent. more than
Princes.

tkice tt

Mr. EVANS.--I never disputed the amount at all; I
said the amount the timber contributtd.

Mr. Alderman Mootta
also in the Queen's-dock
Mr. LLOYD.—There is not one vessel in twenty
Mr. Alderman Moons then replied'to another remark
made by Mr. Evans to the effect that if there were ware-
houses round the docks, a quarter of the space would do
the same business ; by referring to the London docks
round which warehouses were built, the tonnage there was
ottly 5000 tons per acre on the water space, while in Liver-
pool, where they had not the advantage of warehouses
round the docks, the average was 25,000 tons per acre.—
Therefore, either in London they must be exceed.ngly
over-docked, or here we must be monstrously under-
docked. One thing was quite clear:—either we bad a
great deal too little, or in London they had a great deal
too much. With regard to all existing commerce being
accommodated—how bad the trade been accommodated ?
—Had they riot seen 120 vessels at anchor at once, ex-
posed to storms and wind ; and people applying to him,
as chairman of the dock estate, and cornp'aininz, in bitter
terms, that they did not tlf.rrd them accommodation.—
That was the greatest teflection at:d the strongest argu-
ment which could be brought forward for going to parlia-
ment for further dock accommodation. It was one which
ought not to have escaped him in bringing forward the
measure, as it was the greatest one. He appealed as to
whether the vessels had been propeey accommodated.
There was another subject on which he would reply. Mr.
Evans lia3 said that the cost w:,uld greatly exceed the es-
timat,s, and that the advantages to be derived could form
no Equivalent to the cost. With regard to the advantages
to he thrived, be had never conversed with any one who
e tett at
oi n
ted heacocos
tost,raa rnyd owp ntiilorne,gtahr ,cirt
Job tet
they we
sotul dbe i
ma
te s ade-
quate
with
all due deference and with all respect for the talents, of

—There is a goad deal of timber

the learned representative of St. Paul's Ward, he (Mr.
B. M.) weuld attach more weight to the opinions of Mr.
Wightman, Mr. Stewart. and the Dock Surveyor, whose
estimate was less than Mr. Stewart's. If they were to
place the matter in just-a posi:iou, it would Le then the
opinions of Mr. Wig Amon, Mr. Stewart, and the Dock
Surveyor versus the opinion of Mr. Evans.

Mr. LLOYD remarked upon the great advantage to be
derived from warehouses round the docks.

Mr. HUNDERSON said that the average time of dis-
charging all vessels at the transit sheds bad been about
the average size of the vessel being 380 tons.
lug GOO tons, were discharged

four days

Ve6selsfrom China, averag
in less than three days.

Mr. A IKIN spoke' in favour of dock warehouses, and
said that he would beg the House of Commons not to pass

drry out the

waR the power,
dent to erect v

f l'rince

k than any where

le subject had not

ck cc m
• uh. int

certainly bad neve

and he

y take by

cation of se-

of the I

•ed, this provision to apply tic

ject to

se might

int and