The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-07-05 00:00:00

Empertat Paritament. the EXCHEQUER, Mr. O'CONNELL, and Mr. ROEBUCK, in fa-
; Your of Lord John Russell's proposition, and by Mr. J. M.
1 OASKELL, in favour of the lords' amendments,
HOUSI?. OF LOR DS.—Tanusna Y. .
, 1 The question that the amendments of the lords be taken into
i Lord ELLENBOROUGH rose, and moved the adoption of tne i consideration that day three months, was put and agreed to.
t report of the committee on the subject oft heir lordships amend- i
PAID AGENTS IN PARLIAMENT.
meets, in the Irssli municipal corporations bill. 1 Sir J. HANMER rose to move a resolution, declaring that it
The Noble Louis then read the reasons of their lordships is csontrary to the independence, a breach of the privileges, and
for disagreeing to the amendments of the Commons on their derogatory to the House of Commons, for any of its members
lordships' amendments to the bill. . ; to become the paid advocates in parliament, for the conduct
On the first reason being moved for their lordships' adoption, thare, of either public or private affairs of any portion of his
Viscount MELBOURNE said—My lords, after the opinions majesty's subjects.
which I have expressed in the course of the late discussions, . Mr. ROEBUCK opposed the motion, being himself one of the
and the vote which I have given, it is scarcely necessary for me persons upon whom a reflection was-Oast by the hon. baronet's
to state, that Ido not concur in the reasons which the cons- motion.
mittee have drawn up, and I beg to say, that I view with great Mr. D. W. HARVEY also opposed it.- Speaking of the inem-
concern what appears to me to be a very hasty, rash, and im- bers of the House of Commons who are barristers, he said they
prudent course, and insufficient to justify the step taken.— were men who stood with both hands open to receive a bribe on
At the same time, after the decided manifestation which Your all occasions. lie did not find Fault %lath them for taking their
lordships gave when the whole subject was under consideration, fees; but he complained of a particular case and a particular
1 will add, that it is not my intention now to make any further individual being selected. The other night the house hail given
opposition, nor offer any obstruction to this unwise course.— their their doorkeeper £9OO a-year for letting persons in and.
(Hear.) It must be understood by your lordships and the out, some of whom had not half as much money themselves.
public, that neither I nor any of those noble lards who have Mr. Snit Ri.E.Tx said, that the motion should not be unani-
given us their support, concur in the reasons now proposed, mously rejected, for he would second it if he stood alone. No
but we disclaim, disapprove, and condemn theta. (Hear.) colony which had a representative system of its own ought to be
The LORD CHANCELLOR then formally put the question from represented in that house; the King's ministers were the repre-
the woolsack, which was carried, and the first reason was sentatives of the colonies.
agreed to. After a few words from Lord John Russell, and Mr. Hume,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH then read the other reasons, which the motion was negatived, the numbers being for it, 67, against,
were also agreed to. 178, majority, 111.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH.—My lords, I now move that a mes- SLAVE TRADE IN TEXAS.
sage to be sent to the Commons, requesting a conference forth- Mr. B. HOY wished to ask the u4le lord opposite whether
with in the committee-room, No. 5, on the subject of the reasons his Majesty's government had received any communication in
agreed to by your lordships.—Agreed to. the course of their correspondence with the Mexican govern-
A message was accordingly sent to the Commons, and, ment relative to the attempt now made to tarry on the slave
In the course of a few minutes, the Yeoman Usher of the trade in Texas ?
Black Rod announced at the bar that the managers of the con- Lord PALMERSTON apprehended that the house was aware
ference on behalf of the Commons were then ready in the cons- that the Texians were now in state of revolt against the Mexi-
mittee-room No. 5, for the conference. can government, and if it should happen that the Mexican go-
The following peers were, on the motion of Lord ELLEN- vernment were successful in the contest there could be no doubt
Boßoudn, appointed the managers of the conference, viz.:— that the provisions of the treaty which this country had con-
The Duke of Wellington, Earl of Devon, Earl of Shaftesbury, eluded with the Mexican government with regard to the slave
Bishop of,Cork, Lord Ellenborough, Lord Wharneliffe, and
trade would be enforced in every part of their territory. If there
Lord Abinger. was any other result, and the contest now going on shAld ter-
After an absence of about a quarter_ of an hour their lord- , minate in the separation of Texas fi °in Mexico, then of course
ships returned, when any engagements into which 'the Mexitan government had en-
'the Duke of WELLINGTON acquainted their lordships that tered could not apply to Texas. sMith respect to the question
the managers of the conference had communicated to the mana- which had been put to him, he must answer that no communica-
gers of the conference of the Commons, consisting of the Chan- tion could have taken place between this country and the Mexi-
cellor of the Exchequer, Lord John Russel, and others, their can government on the subject.
lordship? reasons, agree'd to that evening, on the subject of the Mr. 13. Hoy then gave notice;that he would take an early
municipal corporations (Ireland) bill. opportunity of bringing the subject before the house, in order
Lord LYNDHURST presented petitions from Liverpool and
to secure the benefit of the continuance of the treaties between
other places in favour of their lordships' amendments to the
Mexico and this country:
'.rich corporations bill. Dr. LUSHINGTON begged to ask his noble friend the Secretary
After sg.,me other business of an unimportant nature bad been for Foreign Affairs whether he had received any information
sansactn, the house adjourned. respecting the exportation of slaves from Texas to the United
States; because the United States were bound by treaty with us
not to admit slaves from any other country ?
Lord PAI.MERSTON.—I have received no information on the
subject. '•

HOUSE OF COMMONS—THURSDAY.
After the presentation of a number of petitions from different
parts of the country upon a variety of subjects, a messaire from
the lords announced that their lordships requested a present
conference in the Committee-room, N 0.5, on the subject of the

IRISH MUNICIPAL BILL.
Lord JOHN RUSsELL.—He said he thought those who had
agreed with him in the original formation and carrying of that
bill would also agree with him, after hearing the reasons given
by the lords for insisting upon certain amendments; that it was
not possible for that house to hope to come to a satisfactory set-
tlement of this question. (Cheers.) The lords had clearly
stated in their reasons, and had as clearly supported that state-
ment, that there was one principle of the bill in which they were
unable to concur, and that principle of the bill was that which
gave to it vigour and vitality, (loud cheers,) from which the
whole of its popular character was derived—the principle which
made it consistent with the constitutional freedom of these
realms—the principle by which they expected to give content-
ment to the people of the cities and towns of Ireland; and when
that one princple was refused and denied to them, and when it
was so clearly stated that no concession had been made on that
point, he could only submit to that house that it was unneces-
sary for them to take further time for considering it. The noble
lord examined at considerable length the arguments contained
in the protest of the lords, and concluded by stating that, for
the sake of peace and harmony, and for a cordial agreement be-
tween the two houses, he was ready to sacrifice much and to
alter many things, and to confine views which might be further
enlarged; but, having done that, and the house having (lone
him the honour to agree with the views which he proposed, he
should be now betraying the confidence of the house—he should
be exhibiting a pusillanimity which be hoped the House of
Commons would never exhibit, if he asked them to take into
their consideration these amendments with a view of abandon.
ing or swerving from the great principles which were connected
with the liberties of this country, with the future peace of Ire-
land, and with, what is equally essential, the maintenance of
the character or this house, on the maintenance of which he
believed their station in the country depended. (Cheers.) He
should, therefore, move that those amendments be taken into
consideration that day three months. (Protracted cheering.)
Mr. Hume supported the rejection of the amendments.
Sir H. PEEL said he thought it would have been more con-
sistent with the importance of the subject that the motion should
have been for printing those reasons and amendments, and that
upon a subsequent day, permitting a sufficient interval to
elapse, in order to consider the nature of them, they should be
called upon to give a decisive oninion. (Hear.) At the same
time, although he should record his dissent to the proposition
of the noble lord—although he could not consent to the post-
ponement for three mouths of that consideration, which cer-
tainly had nut yet been given to the question, as the division
was not expected, and as erroneous sentiments might be drawn
from the division, he should not think it necessary to record
his dissent to the proposition by a hostile vote. In the course
which the House of Lords had adopted, they had acted in con-
formity with the opinions of no inconsiderable minority in that
house. (Hear, hear.) A minority truly it was ; but it was no
inconsiderable minority, either in respect to numbers, station,
or respectability ; ancra minority he was bound to say, but of
course not in reference to himself, powerful also in respect to
ability and influence. (Cheers.) On the first day of the ses-
sion, a discussion took place as to whether the house should bind
itself by a parliamentary resolution, to extend the principle on
which they had given corporations to England and Scotland,
to Ireland also. On that occasion, the lords succeeded, without
a division, in making an amendment, and declining to ac-
quiesce in the proposition. In the House of Commons he (Sir
H. Peel) moved a similar amendment, which was negatived by
a majority of .10 only. He believed the course they then de-
cided upon pursuing was one great principle of this bill—
namely, the dissolution of the existing corporations, and the ex-
tinction of the monopoly of power by one party, making that
sacrifice of present power held by one party in themselves.
He said he thought the principle upon which they proposed to
act was the making that sacrifice, and dissolving those corpo-
rations; but at the same time declining to establish other cor-
porations, under the apprehension that the evils complained of
would not be removed, but transferred only from one party to
another. He believed then that proposition to be correct, and
he still believed it to be so still. (Hear.) He therefore concurred
in the course which the House of Lords had taken; it was in
conformity with the course he had taken himself. He concurred
in substance with the concessions made by the House of Lords
upon subordinate matters, but be did not affect to give them
undue importance. In the points that had been reserved, he
perceived a dignified resolution to be above the imputation of
fear, and to reject the menaces which had been levelled against
the House of Lords, and also a spirit of contempt for the charges
of sordid and sinister motives; but at the same time there was
equally apparent a desire to make advances in a corresponding
spirit towards an amicable settlement. (Hear.) The difference
between the two houses on this question had been greatly ex-
aggerated. The commons had proposed that 12 towns in Ire-
land should have corporations, and had accompanied that pro
position with a cumbrous arrangement for giving 22 other towns,
with their corporate property, into the hands of commissioners
under the 9th of George IV., whether the inhabitants wished
for this arrangement or not. Now the lords had left t 6 the in-
habitants of every city and town not already governed by a
local act the option of calling in the 9th of George IV., and also
the power of electing the commissioners, together with other al-
terations of a popular character, which the noble lord had ad-
mitted to be improvements. But how could that be reconciled
with the declaration` of the noble lord that the vital principle of
the bill had been destroyed? (Hear.) Then, again, the re-
tention of certain officers, such as weigh-masters, butter-tasters,
and others, was made under existing acts in order to prevent
any abuse of patronage. With regard to the administration of
justice, the objections made with respect to persons holding
office under the corporations had been, he believed, entirely
obviated. After the best reflection that he could bestow upion
the subject, he professed himself unable to discover any advan-
tage likely to acerrue from a protracted discussion of the ques-
tion which the reasons sent down from the lords brought under
the consideration of that house. In his opinion no good
could at all result from further conferences on this subject
with the other branch of the legislature. From an indul-
gence of the excitement of the passions at present prevailing
with regard to municipal corporations, he could not bring
himself to expect any beneficial issue' and he therefore felt
adverse to further proceedings upon the subject during the
present session. The noble lord opposite had put a certain al-
ternative, in which he speculated upon the maintenance or non-
maintenance of the British constitution. Hear, hear.) Such
an intimation, coming from a minister of the crown in that
house, filled him with surprise. (Loud cheers.) He would
riot discuss, because he could not for a moment doubt, whether
or not the British constitution would be upheld. (Continued
cheering.) He professed himself unable to conceive that the
people of England were willing to forego the advantages which
it was universally acknowledged they derived from that mixed
and balanced form of governmentunder which they had been so
long advancing in greatness and prosperity. (Loud cheering.)
On the other side of the house they might say that they must
not refuse justice to Ireland; but what did that mean? 41 ad
the other side a right to set up its own opinion as infalliblstitnd
would the country recognize its infallibility? On that subject
the House of Lords had exercised their judgment, and for the
course they adopted under the dictates of that judgment they
were responsible to their own consciences, they were responsi-
ble to God, and to their own enlightened fellow-countrymen.
(A slight laugh from the ministerial benches—loud cheers from
the opposition.) What had the noble lord said at the other
house ?—that from the course they had hitherto pursued, there
was no reason to think they would assent to any adjustment of
the question at issue. He must be allowed to say that the
House of Commons bad appeared to be actuated in/ a feeling
of the same sort ; they, it would seem, were likewise de-
termined to adhere to their own opinions • it was therefore clear
that for the piment there could be no settlement of the question.
The lords, it MA not to be doubted, would continue to exercise
their own judgment, founded as it was upon e sense of their
public duty—a sense of what they ought to do for the sake of
their order—a due impression of the uprightness with which
their high functions ought to be exercised, se as to secure their
own independence and accomplish those objects which the pub-
lic interest might demand—he repeated that they would continue
to exercise that judgment, not for their own gratification mere-
ly, still less for the maintenance of personal privileges or ad-
vantages, but for the maintenance of enlightened views and an
impartial promotion of the true interests of the community at
large. (Hear.) The House of Lords, lie felt satisfied would
not yield to the first expression of mere popular passion, and,
resisting that as they lied done, and as he felt assured they
would continue to do, there could not be a shadow of doubt
that they would be supported in their resistance by a great and
preponderating mass of public opinion, by all that was intell-
gent, by all that had preserved, and would in time coming not
cease to rescue, the British constitution from any dangers with
which it might be threatened. (Loud cheers.) Gusts of popu-
lar passion might occasionally seem to shake their authority,
anti bring into question their value and importance to the state,
but there was no man who looked at the history of our institu-
tions and the character of the English people, if he (lid so
calmly and impartially, could admit into his mind the semblance
of a doubt that our mixed form of government had taken such a
deep root in the hearts and affections of the people, as that it
must long remain secure from any real danger. ( Hear, hear.)
It was impossible to reflect upon the changes which had taken
place durina• the last ten years without feeling assured that the
House of Lords must be considered as more confiried than
ever they had been in the hold which they possessed, and just's
possessed, upon the respect and affections of the people of this
country. t Loekctieerso
After some otiar obiervatiens made by the CHANCLILOR of

JULY 3, •i.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—FRIDAT.
EDUCATION IN IRELAND.
The Earl of WJCKLOW presented a petition from certain pa-
rishes in Ireland, praying their lordships would not sanction any
further grant for the purpose of increasing the funds of the
Board of Edcation for Ireland, until there had been full inquiry
into the working of the system. He was astosiished at the op-
position given to the motion of the Bishop of Exeter on this
subject ; the government ought to have taken the lead in sup-
porting the motion.
The Bishop of EXIsTER inquired when they might expect the
report of the commissioners on education (lielaud)?
The Duke of LElNsTEßAswered that he had written for it,
but that he had not yet received it.
FACTORIES—INFANT LABOUR.
The Bishop of EXETER presented three petitions on the sub-
ject of infant and adult labour in factories. The first was from
the master manufacturers of the town of Bradford, in the county
of York. This petition emanated and resulted from a meeting
on the subject; which had been called by public advertisement.
The resolutions embodied in it, as well as the prayer, were '
adopted by the majority of the meeting after an elaborate and
full discussion. The next petition was from the delegates of a
body of workmen in the West Riding of Yorkshire and part of
Lancashire; and the thirdpetition must be considered as the
petition of a single individual, inasmuch as it was signed only
by one person, the chairman of a meeting of operatives of the
towns of Huddersfield, Halifax, and other neighbouring manu-
facturing places. These petitions united in praying their lord-
ships to pass a bill providing that the actual period of labour for
all persons under the age of twenty-one yews shall not exceed
ten hours per diem during five days of the week, nor eight hours
on Saturday; and they further prayed that certain restrictions
should be placed on moveable power, within certain prescribed
limits, in all towns where two-thirds of the population should be
engaged in the manufactures. In the town of Manchester it
was.proved before the factory commissioners that 8,000 chil-
dren, infants, had been deserted and left in the streets within
the space of four years by their wretched and starving parents.
The oppression suffered by these miserable little creatures Was
perfectly tremendous to contemplate. It was proved in the re-
port that the children had been kept to hard labour for thirty-
four hours at a time, with an occasional rest at intervals,
amounting to not more than four hours in the whole. (Hear.)
The prayer of the petitioners was reasonable and just; all they
prayed for was a restriction to be imposed by the legislature
upon the hours of labour in factories. There would no real loss
arise to the master manufacturers by the adoption of this hu-
mane restriction. It was proved by the fact that several emi-
nent manufacturers conducted their mills upon the principle
that no man, woman. or child was suffered to work more than
ten hours a day. He could specify several of his oun know-
ledge, namely, Mr. Dunn, Mr. Greig, Mr. Wood, of Bradford,
who had voluntarily submitted to this restriction, and who had
suffered no perceptible loss by their humanity. He begged to
move that the petitions be read.
Lord MeLBOnnNE did not object to the reading or the peti-
tions, but he thought that the right reverend prelate had unne- .
cessarily swelled the number of deserted children in the town
of Manchester by taking the gross returns of all children lost or
strayed in that town within the four specified years. It was
not to be supposed that these strayed children were not restored
to their parents. The police kept a register of them, and it was
that register which formed the basis of the right reverend pre-
late's statement. •
The Bishop of EXETER, in reply, said that in the district of
Salford, which formed a suburb of the town of Manchester,
there was a return showing that within the space of four months
there were no less than 470 children found in the streets, lost or
deserted by their parents. The right reverend prelate then en-
tered into son* statements respecting the factory bill, with a
view to show that its inefficiency was owing to the government
of 1833, and not to the opposition peers, to whom it was falsely
attributed for the purposes of faction and of augmenting the'
popular prejudices against their lordships' house.
The petitions were then read.
After the presentation of one of two petitions, the house ad-
journed till Monday.
HOUSE OF COM MONS.—FitID/Y.
Lord SANDON presented a peCtion from certain parieb clerks
of Liverpool, praying the house to grant them compensation in
case the bill for the registration of wills and marriages should
pass..
Mr. D. W. II evey presented one from a Clergyman, a Rev.
Mr. Collier, representing that his living was only £350 a-year,
while the tithes produced £2,000 a-year ; that his predecessor
had got £3BO from Queen Anne's bounty, and had expended it
in building stables; that the petitioner wets charged interest for
this sum; and that now the return of the arhount was demanded,
accompanied with the threat of legal procee6ings to enforce pay-
ment, should the demand not be complied wits, He prayed for
redress, though the hon. member said he isou'ei not point out
how it could be afforded.
Many other petitions were presented previously toproceeding
with the orders of the day--
TRISH CHURCH BILL. •
Lord MORPETH moved that the house resolve into cimmittee
on the Irish church bill.
Mr. S. CRAWFORD moved, as an amendment—
" 1. That it is expedient that tithes and all compositions for
tithes in Ireland should cease, and be for ever extinguisher.;
compensation being first made for all vested interests, whether •
lay or ecclesiastical; and that it is also expedient that measures
should be adopted to render the revenue of the church lands
more productive, and more available for the support of the
working clergy of the establishment; and that all persons not
in communion with the established church of Ireland should be
relieved from all assessment for its support.
"2. That it is expedient that the moneys necessary for 'the
aforesaid compensation should be advanced out of the public
revenue, and afterwards repaid by instalments from the proceeds
of a tax to be imposed on profit rents, such tax to cease and de-
termine as soon as the said debt shall be dischaeged."
Mr. RAN nee PLUNKET, Mr. O'CONNELL. &c., opposed them
as contradictory and impracticable, and recommended their
withdrawal.
Mr. S. CRAwFORD said th he was surprised at the con-
demnation of the resolutions by Mr. O'Connell, as that hon-
member had formerly recommended to him precisely similar
resolutiont.
The horse divided—there were 51 for going into committee,
and 18 for the resolutions: majority against them 33.
The house then resolved into committee on the Irish church.
hill. All the clauses up to 49 were agreed to.
Lord MORFETH then said " We now, Sir, come to the next
clause, which is the tug of war—the appropriation clause-1
therefore move that the chairman report progress."
The motion was agreed to, and the houseiadjourned about
one o'clock.