The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-11-02 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS.

On Tuesday, at eleven o'clock, an adjouined meeting of
the town-council was held in the Town-hall. The meeting
was also a special one, for the winding up of the business of
the old council.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.
In the proceedings of this committee, they stated that they
had seen no reason to alter their determination concerning
the removal of the haymarket from its present site; and re-
commended that part of the old Botanic garden should be ta-
ken as the site for a south hayrnarket. They also recom-
mended that portion of land should be granted for the erec-
tion of a new institution, for the deaf and dumb. It was fur-
ther recommended that certain ground in Flynn-street, on
which were six dilapidated houses, should be given to the
Soup Committee for the erection of a soup shop; and that
land in the possession of the corporation, at both ends of the
town, should be used for the erection of warehouses, to be ap-
propriated to the storage of saltpetre and nitrate of soda.
Mr. Alderman LEATHOM asked, not for his own satisfac-
tion, but for that of others, whether it was intended to pur-
chase land for the erection of warehouses for saltpetre?
Mr. Councillor NV. W. CURRIE replied that no land would
have to be purchased for the purpose spoken of. Some land
which had formerly been sold for a charitable purpose, but
which had not been appropriated, would be cheerfully relin-
quished; and that, with other laud held by the corporation,
Would be sufficient, and would be reserved for the purpose.
There would be no occasion for any by-law to force individuals
to store saltpetre in the warehouses appropriated to it, as there
was already an act in existence for compelling individuals to
store it apart in particular places. This subject had been ta-
ken in hand in consequence of the late conflagration; for
there was no reason to doubt, that the ruinous nature of the
great fire in Itobert-street, was to be attributed to the explo-
sion of the saltpetre, and which alone bad caused the loss of
£,15,000 worth of cotton, belonging to Mr. Brown.
Mi. Alderman EVANs said that he had every reason to sup-
pose that saltpetre, by itself, was not combustible; and he had
been given to understand that it was not saltpetre, but a num-
ber of puncheons of rum, which had exploded at the late lire.
That, he believed was the fact of the case. He had the great-
est respect fur the individuals composing the Finance Com-
mittee; but he could not help remarking that this was another
instance of the origination of legislation in that committee, to
which they were too prone. They conceived projects with-
out ever considering that the majority of the council might
like to reflect upon the subject as well as they had dohe. With
regard to many matters like that of the removal of the hay-
market, of which there was only one in the town of Liver-
pool, and then as to the formation of a depot for an article
which was likely to become one of considerable importance
to their commerce, they might certainly commit a great error
as to the localities, or indeed as to the trzeessity fur a depot
at all. He had hoped that such a system woql,l not have been
fut ther pursued. They ought not to be hurried into imma-
ture legislation by every little occurrence which took place to
alarm them, like that which arose out of the late fire. He'
should recommend that every measure that was important
everything, in fact, beyond ordinary matter—should be omit-
ted from the report of the committee's proceedings, and proper
notice of every more important subject be given to the coun-
cil, that, after deliberation and discussion, they might come to
a proper determination upon them, whether to approve or dis-
approve. If they were to go on sanctioning the proceedings
of the committee from a mere reading of the reports on which
he, for one, was not able sufficiently to concentrate his atten-
tion, they might find afterwards that things had been allowed
to pass which ought not to have been consented to. He ad-
mitted that he was blameable in not giving his attention to
the reading of the reports; but be thought that he was not
singular in the opinion that, however well read, it was im-
possible for a man, from a mere reading, to form a suffici-
ently definite notion of what had been done to pronounce an
opinion thereon instanter. There was the loan of £250,000
to the Improvement Committee, which he never knew any-
thing about till it was dune. Hef moved that the considera-
tion of the part of the report relative to warehouses for salt-

petre should be postponed.
Mr. Councillor W. W. CURRIE said that it ought to be
considered that it did not rest with the committee, but with
the council, to go on with or to postpone a question. The
measure referred to had not been brought forward by him,
nor did he know by whom it had been brought forward.
Some gentlemen, struck by the extent of damage which had
been done at the late fire, had found out that there was an act
of parliament under which they might compel the owners of
saltpetre and nitrate of soda to warehouse it in particular
places. He must confess that chemists differed as to the
nature of The explosion, and he believed that saltpetre would
not explode of itself ; but it would do so when it came in
contact with other explosible articles, and the experience
which they had justified the Finance COmmittee in sanc-
tioning With their approbation such prudent and precaution-
ary measures as would prevent a recurrence of such a cala•
may. Alderman Evans had often spoken of the enormous
rate of insurance in Liverpool, and one of the reasons of that
was the promiscuous stowage of all articles which was prac-
tised here. The Finance Committee were not desirous to
arrogate to themselves the origination of measures, but they
were entrusted with the watching over the welfate of the
town, and he did not think that they stepped' out of their
province in recommending to the council so important a
matter. It must be recollected, however, that measures must
be originated somewhere, and the Finance Committee think-
ing the subject was one worthy of attention, had ventured to
recommend its adoption. But though satisfied that 99 out of
every 100 were in favour of the measure, he was far from
wishing that it should be adopted then, and left it to the
council to postpone it. Ile thought that they would disapprove
of the dangerous practide of stowing together ignitable arti-
cles. He again begged leave to disclaim altogether the idea
that the committee had arrogated to themselves the province
of the council by recommending a measure for adoption.
Mr. Alderman EYANS remarked that he rather blamed the
vice of the system than the individuals.
Mr. Councillor BOLTON said that Alderman Evans had
stated that they submitted projects without due consideration,
and had said that they ought not to endeavour to take the
council by surprise. They. had not done either one or the
other. lie was of opinion that, as in the various divisioits of
the committee, the heads of the whole expenditure of the
town came before them, those where the places is here niea-
sures should originate, and if members would not attend to
the proceedings when read, it was their own fault. He would
impress on them the necessity of listening attentively to
everything that was read, and whenever reasonable grounds
were shown, he felt satisfied that delay would always be
;panted.
Mr. Alderman SHEIL said that, although he ennld hear as
well as any of his neighbours, he found it impossible to follow
the deputy town-clerk in his reading of the reports of com-
mittees,' so as to take notice of everything which was said.
lie thought therefore that Mr. Evans's remarks were par-
ticularly appropriate at a time when they were about to re-
model the committees, and if he (Mr. Evans) would follow
them up by bringing some motion forward, great good would
be the result. He agreed with Mr. Bolton, that they ought
to listen to what was going on ; but he defied Mr. Bolton, or
anybody else, to follow the most distirct reader through all
the details of a report, in which mere routine business was
mixed up with what was of more importance, to separate the
one from the other at a moment, and to decide at once, when
a doubtful point was presented, what course would be best to
pursue. He was therefore of opinion that, by alluding to this
subject, Mr. Evans deserved the thanks of the muted.
The TowN-ct.ettx explained, that having had much talk
on the subject of the explosion which had taken place at the
late tire, and knowing that a dead letter act was lying by
them, giving power to confine the stowage of saltpetre, lie
bad laid that act before the committee. It gave power to
appropriate particular warehouses for saltpetre, and to levy a
fine of £5O for non-compliance.
It was agreed that the question should be postponed for
'urther consideration.

the consideration of so important a matter until another day,
and have a special council for the discussion of the subject.
After some further conversation, Messrs. Ramsden and
Platt consented to withdraw their motion.
Mr. Alderman FREME then moved that the consideration
of the proceedings of the Finance Committee, with reference
to the formation of a south hayinarket, be postponed.
Mr. Councillor DUNCAN seconded the motion.
The council then went to the vote, when there appeared—
For Mr. Freine's amendment—Messrs Harvey, Frankland,
Mellor, J. Lawrence, Cooper, Carson, Morecroft, Higgins,
Coglan, Mason, Rainsden, Duncan, and Freme.
Against the amendment—Messrs. J. Holmes, J. Hey-
worth, Hodgson, Logan, Houghton, Thornhill, Shand, Pres-
ton, Rawdon, H. Holmes, Walmsley, Bolton, Wooilright,
Bright, Priestly, H. Hornby, Bibby. C. Lawrence, Wood,
Lassen, Earle, Brocklebank, Blackburn, Smith, G. H.
Lawreuce, Jordan, Platt, Currie, Sheil, Booth, J. Hornby,
R. Roskell, Leathern, G. Holt, Jones, Benn, Evans, T. Holt,
Moon, Bulley, Barclay, Robinson, and the Mayor.
Absent. Messrs. Barton, Sands, Segar, Leigh, Cropper,
and O. Heyworth. _ _

Mr. Councillor LA ssEt t. inquired whether it was intended
to permit teachers of all religious denominations to have ac-
cess to the persons educated at the proposed new institution
for the deaf and dumb ? He said that one of the most im:

portant things which would have to be taught to the deaf
and dumb would be religion ; and before he gave his con-
sent to the grant of the land, he should like to know whether
teachers of every persuasion were to have access.
Mr. Councillor W. CURRIE said, that on all occasions,
when grants of land had been made, it had been the practice
to leave to the town-clerk the drawing out of a grant, in
which should be such reservations of right to particular or to
all parties, as the council thought tit to-propose. tie did not
consider, however, that the principal object was to teach reli-
gion in the new institution, but to impart to them that know-

ledge which would enable them to follow a trade. lie had
never heard that the present institution was confined to one
party.
Mr. Alderman SHEIL. thought that the remarks of Mr.
Lassell merited consideration. They were told that the chil-
dren of parents of all religions were admitted into the insti-
tution for the deaf and dumb; so he belonged to a country
. .

where, in like maoner..all children were to le admitted into
the schools, but it was on the condition that thin, consented
to be taught episcopacy. It was their duty to take care, that
if the dumb or deaf children of parents belonging to a par-
ticular sect were admitted, that he was not obliged to jearn
the tenets of another peirtieular sect. Unless this were pro-
vided for, be should oppose the grant.
The TowN-cLEroc stated that the scheme would have to

be sent to the Finance Committee, and he mould have to
report upon it, and no appropriation would be made till that
scheme was admitted. It must come into committee before
there could he any legal appropriation Of laud.
The proceedings of the Finance Committee were then
confirmed, vith the exception of that portion which related
to the saltpetre warehouses.

CORPORATION LEASES.

The report of the committee on the above business having
been read,
Mr. Councillor CURRIE said he was happy to inform the
council, that the leasehold property of the corporation was
greatly in demand, no less than £17,000 having been received
for leases since August last.
Proceedings confirmed.
WATCH COMMITTEE.

In the report of the above committee was embodied a reso-
lution of thanks to the head constable for his exertions at the
late fire, ar.d to Joshua Wa!lnsley, Esq., for his great atten-
tion as chairman of the committee during the past year. A
resolution which appeared in the report read to the council,
contained a revornmendation that a statement should be pre-

pared, similar to that of the preceding year, of the number
of times which the committee had met, and also of the tim-
ber of times which each member had attended the daily beard.
The MAYOR stated that there had been scme reflections
made upon the conduct of the police at the late fire. Now,
he had been on the spot during the night and part of the
following day, and he must say that, so far from exhibiting
any disposition to save themselves, he had frequently felt it
his duty to check Mr. Whitty and the police under him from
exposing themselves to danger. He could speak both of him
and the police in the highest. manner.
Mr. Councillor COGLAN said that in the watch report there
was a recommendation that the secretary should be instructed
to prepare a statement of the number of times which each
member had attended. He had a decided objection to any
such a thing being done, and should move that that part of
the report be not confirmed. If his motion was lost, he should
then follow it up by proposing, that every other committee
should be placed on the same footing; for he did not see why
the members of the Watch Committee in particular should
be selected as the objects either of eulogy or censure. The
proposition, no doubt, had its origin in the personal vanity
of some one or two members, who wished to stand well with
their constituents, and who, because circumstances had al-
lowed them to attend an extraordinary number of times,
wished, by placing themselves in juxta-position with others
who had been less constant in their attention, to obtain
praise for themselves and censure for their co-members; for
if they were to be placed at the top of the pedestal, others
must of necessity be low in comparison. If such a plan were
acceded to, it would only be just to allow every one who had
not given his constant attention to his duties as a committee-
man an opportunity of explaining the causes, and then the
consequence must be that the time of the council would be
occupied with long and minute details of private affairs. It
bad happened that one gentleman had been precluded from
attending by the death of a relative—another had been kept
away by the death of a partner—some might possibly have
business which would oblige them to go out of town—or pos-
sibly some might have been prevented from attending because
they were on another committee, whose deliberations they
preferred attending. If the motion were persevered in, he
should move that all committees be placed in the same rela-
tive position.
Mr. Alderman RowNsoN, in seconding the motion, re-
marked that there were sonic gentlemen on the committee
who were out of business, or whose business sat so light upon
them, that they had little else to do. He knew ono or two
gentlemen to whom it would be the greatest nuisance in the
world if they were deprived of the opportunity of attending
its meetings, and they would experience some difficulty in
fiuding another mode of spending the spare hour and half.
Mr. Councillor EARLE thought the subject unworthy of
their attention. He did not care a straw whether they pub.
fished his name Or not.
Mr Councillor WALAISLEY could have no personal feeling
in the mutter, as he was not a member of the daily board. It

;as he who had brought forward the motion to-publish the
names, in order to enable the council to judge who could best
attend those committees, and not fur the purpose of having
the name of any gentleman held up to the public,•and much
less to make offensive remarks upon. Ile thought it is duty
to bring it forward, as it had been previously named; for, as
there was a daily board, and some had net attended so regu-
larly as they ought to have done, some inducement should be
held out to them to attend, especially as the public business
would not otherwise be attended to.
Mr. Councillor CURRIE said that the principal question
was,-had the arduous duties of the Watch Committee been.
properly attended to. /le thought that they had, and that
the public were muchindebted to the gentlemen who formed
that committee. He did not see any necessity for preparing
a list of the attendance; but as they themselves had had an.
opportunity of knowing who bud attended and who 'had not,
as well as what were the causes of absence, he could not but
think that the recommendations of those members would be
attended to in the formation of the new committee. And he
was of opinion that it should remain with themselves to regu-
late
their own proceedings. ratherthan that the council should
take upon it itself. He dared say that no gentleman would '
object to his name being read; but he thought that the names
of the committee being known to themselves, and the extent
of their attendance, that the knowledge would be sufficient to
guide them in their choice.
Mr. Alderman ROBINSON said his remembrance was per-
fectly strong as to the reading of the /wares last year. The
reading of the names was not called for last-year, but had
been commenced by Mr. Wahnsley; and Mr. Shand had
expressed a very strong feeling on the occasion, and he
thought that he had said that he would not be on the com-
mittee.
The council then went to .-the vote; but before doing so,
Messrs. Wahnslev, Houghton, the`
111ellor, Wooll-
right, Carson, Higgins, Jordan, and Freme got up and
left the room.
The following is the result of the division :
For Mr. Coglan's -amendment—Messrs. J. Holmes, J.
Hevworth, Logan, Thornhill, Shand, Preston, Rawlon,
H. -Holmes, Belton, Priestley. El. Hornby,..Bibby, J. Law.
rence, C. Lawrence' Cooper, Wood, Lassell, Earle, Brockle-,
bank, Morecroft, Blackburn, Coglan, Moon, G. H. Law-
rence, Platt, Carrie, Ramsden, Booth, J. Llornby, Roskell,
Leathom, T. Bolt, G. llolt, Jones, Beun, Evans, MoOn,
Barclay, and Robinson.
Against the amendment—Messrs. Hodgson, Bright, Harvey,
Duncan, Sheil, and the Mayor.
For the amendment, 39; against it, G—majority, 33.
THE NEw CUSTOM-HOUSE:

In the report oTtleonstoni-honse committee it was set
forth, that directions had been given for flooring:the Long-
room with asphalte at 7s 6d per square yard.
Mr. Councillor LAssEt, said he had been informed that
in warm apartments the material above mentioned did nut

harden. •
Mr. Alderman SIMI, said that it was pitiable to see a
building like the new Custom-house in stato gito.- The sub-
ject ought to be taken into serious consideration,.and means
devised to force it forward to completion. It was evident to
him that there must he blame somewhere.
The MAyon explained that the delay rested with her Ma-
jesty's government, and they were only Stopping until go-
vernment had made up t heir minds. The key of the postoffice
had long since been given up.
Mr. Alderman SHELL said that a remonstrance ought to
be made.
Mr. CouncillorJOßDAN observed that, with respect to the
long room, they were not likely to get a farthing of money
more. They had been told that they had ul, eadv got £150,000,
and ought not to expect any more. They bad written to go-
vernment about ventillating the long room, and could not
obtain an answer about it until the other day, when Mr. Stan-.
ley came down, and said that it should be done. There was
not a day on which he did not call to see how they were
going on. The rails were all finished, and very ugly things
they were. (Laughter.)
COURT OF REQUESTS. - .

The TOWN-ctxtlxre;t the following report of the Court-
of Requests Committee:—
"That the committee regret that they are compelled to
lay before the council their deliberate opinion, ,that expe-
rience has proved that this court, with a barrister as the sole
judge, however high the character and attainments of the
individual, does not give that satisfaction to the public which
they are reasonably entitled to, and which it was the anxious
desire of the council to secure, by the expensive re-construc-
tion of this important tribunal under the act of iB3€.
" That to effect this object, it is, in the opinion of the
committee, essential that commissioners should be appointed
from the inhabitants, to act conjointly with the. stipendiary
commissioner, or as a jury, with his legal assistance as as-
sessor.
"That if it he determined by the council to apply for an
act to authorise this alteration, the committee would consider
it most desirable that the power of the court to recover the
property and effects of debtors, comprising, under proper
limitations, payments out of future salaries and wages,
should, if practicable, be extended and made more effectual.
"That the committee recommend that these considerations
should be especially referred to the new Court of Requests
Committee for consideration and report, with power to Rive
the necessary parliamentary notices, to secure the ensuing
session, to be followed up or not, as the council may, on re-
port of the committee, determine."
The report was confirmed. •
CHURCH ENDOWMENT.

The final report of the Church Endowment Committee
was read by the town-clerk. The circumstances that led to
the final determination of the suit, and the arrangement of
the question by the act of 2d Victoria, which directed the
transfer to the corporation of the fluid in litigation, hate
been so recently before the public, that it is unnecessary to
particularise them. The amount of principal transferred to
the corporation was £105,000, and of interest £13,812 Bs.
making a total of £llB,OOO Bs. The total amount of costs
and expenses paid by the corporation, including £1154 ss. 93,
the costs of the trustees is £4086. Balance received by the
corporation, £111,726 Bs.
The report was adopted.
Mr. Aide' man EVANS wished to state that it was his inten-
tion to move that no more of the presentations of corporation
churches should be sold. He had been informed that those
sold for £l5OO were worth £5OOO. • At this moment any man
might buy one of the presentations and give it to a relative,
whatever he might be, and however unfitted for the office;
even a Jew might buy one. Were they to suppose that the
council could not make a better appointment than was likely
to he made under such circumstances?
The MAYOR explained that it was imperative on the coun-
cil to sell.