The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-03-05 00:00:00

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and by and by, because they-said--if the Welsh Church was
red atall, it must be madd,morouceful to the coup-
, and to the people who paid for the support of the bishops
and ministers, the people must receive something in return,
in the way of instruction, of visiting from house to house, of
spiritual consolation, and of encouragement, in the face of
many trials. (Cheers.) He was bound to confess, and it
was with pain that he did so, that the state of the church
in the principality was deplorable—such as was calculated to
call forth the sympathy and the commiseration of every true
patriot, and of every one who felt interested in the success of
true religion, in any part of the world. We had seen the
churches deserted ; we bad seen the people leave the church
in disgust and turn away dissatisfied with the state of things
which it presented, because the church had not been worked
as a system for their benefit, in the way she should have been
made to work, and in the way he trusted she would be made
to work by and by, in order to produce spiritual prospects of
the vast mass of the population. (Cheers.) The time was
coming, therefore, when every one must put his shoulder to
the wheel, in order, if possible, to drive forward this great
machinery into a proper position, that it might work its way
to the hearts and affections of the people, and that there
might be but one voice, one sentiment, and one declaration of
attachment and love to it, proceeding from rich and poor,
from learned and unlearned, throughout the land. (Loud
cheers.) He hoped and trusted, therefore, that, in advocat-
ing this subject, they would concur, and also get others to
concur, in the duty of supporting the petitions about to be
sent from hence against the abstraction of ecclesiastical reve-
nues from the principality to any object in England. In
order to secure that object, the sees of Bangor and St. Asaph
must be kept separate. They could not carry the second
unless they carried the first. They must carry the first or
lose the second ; and therefore they declared their unwilling-
ness to see any more of the wealth, and, he would add too,
the patronage of the principality, transferred to rich England,
—to England, wallowing in wealth and revelling in luxury.
It was to her disgrace and reproach that any commissioners
should have attempted to abstract Its ecclesiastical revenues
from poor Wales. (Hear.) The Welsh could not do their
work effectually, he was convinced, until their friends in the
principality attempted some better measures than they had
of late mooted. They had hitherto set about the work ex-
actly like children. Lord Dungannon had certainly made a
very plausible speech at the meetings recently held ; but his
lordship had given no facts. He ought to have drawn the
attention of the public to the state of the church ; to have
shewn its poverty ; the abstraction of its revenues already to
England; and have taken that in his hand. (Cheers.) Un-
less they brought facts before the public, unless they spewed
the commissioners the facts upon paper, and left them to
calculate for themselves, they would never carry the point
with Englishmen. (Hear, hear.) It was incumbent then
that they should do so. He did not know what might be
done in Liverpool, or what might be the character of the
petitions to be sent up ; but if he was spared, he would lay
before the Archbishop of Canterbury a table, which he would
call " A Chapter of Grievances with regard to the Poverty
and Misgovernment of the Welsh Church." (Cheers.) We
owed the Archbishop of Canterbury a grudge for telling us
that bishops had nothing to do with the people, but with the
clergy. So far from that, we must have bishops who
would attend, and speak, and preach to the people as
well as to the clergy. (Hear, hear, hear.) He dread-
ed no man when he had justice upon his side. (Cheers.) He
dreaded not the frown of archbishop or bishop when he had
justice upon his side; but he would shew the grievances of
his country and of his church in the light of the world ; and
when he had laid them before the archbishop, they should
go forth before the people. (Hear.) The time was coming
when every bishop in Wales must do his duty, and all the
clergy, whether vicars, rectors, perpetual curates, or stipen-
diary curates, in Wales, must do their duty to the Welsh
church, or not expect to be paid. (Hear.) They must be
qualified, too, to do that duty in a language that thrilled to
the heart. (Cheers.) To accomplish that, it would be ne-
cessary that all the rectors and vicars should know the lan-
guage of the people. (Cheers.) What had been the causes
of Ause in the Welsh church? Why, the bishops and the
clergy themselves. (Hear, hear.) He ventured to say that
one-half of the clergy in Wales could not write the Welsh
language correctly. (Hear, hear.) That system had been
too much encouraged. The clergy had been discouraged
from cultivating the language by the bishops, who did not
know it themselves, and cared nothing about it. The rev.
gentleman, after a few further observations commenting
upon the excellent results which would arise to the Welsh
church from the appointment of NV elsh bishops, concluded
by supportiug the resolution.—lt was then carried.
Mr. W. C. DAVIES then read the petitions to the Queen,
the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, arid to the Houses of
Lords and Commons ; and the following resolution relating
to them was carried on the motion of Mr. DAVID EVANS,
seconded by Mr. OWEN WILLIAMS :—" That the petition to
her Most Gracious Majesty the Queen be entrusted to the
Earl of Powys, that to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to
the Lords Bishop of St. Asaph and Bangor, the petition to
House of Lords to Lord Kenyon, and that to the Commons
to Viscount Sandon, for presentation, when they severally
may deem fit."
The Rev. H. JONES, vicar of Northop, moved the next re-
solution, which requested the committee to continue their
services during the parliamentary session, or until the ques-
tion was finally disposed of, iu order to promote such mea-
sures as might be desirable to carry the object into effect.
The rev. gentleman maintained that if one bishop only was
placed over the whole of North Wales, he would have more
patronage at his disposal than any one man ought to have.
It was, indeed, impossible to view the measure in any other
light. On the question of the abstraction of revenues he
could speak feelingly. He had the cure of a very large parish,
in which he had, through the generosity of friends, been ena-
bled to erect a new church at a distance of about three miles
from the parish church. Great was the difficulty he found
in raising money to complete the building, but he experienced
much greater in endeavouring to obtain funds for its endow-
ment. It was, indeed, so inadequately endowed, that lie was
positively ashamed to ask any clergyman to officiate in it,
for he had not £5O a-year to offer him. On the other hand,
what was the state of his parish with regard to ecclesiastical
revenues? The rectorial tithes which were added 150 years
ago to the diocese of St. Asaph amounted to £6OO or £7OO
a-year ; and could anything be more hurtful than to sec that
income transferred from Wales to that rich place called Man-
chester ? He wanted two—nay, three—churches more in his
parish to enable him to do his duty officially. Now he could
get money to build these additional churches, but he had not
a shilling wherewith to endow them. If the legislature would
allow him to have what really belonged to his parish, he
should be in nossession of ample resources for the endow-
ments. Under these circumstances he, most heartily ap-
proved of the objects of the meeting, and trusted they would
hP

attained.
The Rev H JONES, incumbent of Bagillt, seconded the
resolution in a long and able address. Something had been
said about , he qualifications of bishops in Wales, and he
beggcd to express his concurrence in the sentiment which
had `Been often expressed, that there ought to be Welsh
bishops in Wales. He did not say this in defiance of any
feeling upon the part of his most respected diocesan, or of
his lordship's colleagues, but because he was sure they were
as much alive to the demands of justice and reason as that
meeting. Bat, although he felt thus warmly upon the sub-
ject of his country's language and church, still he thought it
dienot belong to,thern to touch upon the subject that even-
ing. What they had to guard against was, the denial to
Wales of common justice, and the loss of a bishopric. What-
ever might he the qualifications of the bishop who might be
appointed over the whole of North Wales, unless he had the
gift of swifter communications than could be afforded ►a the
present state of the country, he could not, with the whole of
North Wales under his charge, perform the functions of his
office satisfactorily. It was necessary, therefore, that they
should use their utmost efforts to secure such a number of
bishops, as, supposing them to be qualified, would enable
them to perform their duties properly. The rev. gentleman
then proceeded to cite a number of instances, relative to the
poverty of the Welsh church, and the injustice of the aliena-
tions of its funds, and he concluded amidst loud applause by
seconding the resolution.
The CHAIRMAN then put the motion and it was unani-
mously carried.
The meeting then thanked Mr. Clough for his services in
the chair, and dispersed.
[We understand that the petitions which have emanated
from this meeting have already received a very considerable
number of signatures.]