The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-12-10 00:00:00

FINAL

MEETING at the QUEEN'S THEATRE,
TO-NIGHT.

As the Socialists of Liverpool have put forth what they are
pleased to call " A Life of the notorious John Brindley,"
Mr. BRINDLEY will THIS EVENING (Friday) give a
full and faithful history of his eventul career, from childhood
to the present time. He will also take this opportunity of
reviewing the Four Nights' Discussion between Mr. L.
Jones and himself; bringing up, in a summary form, the
whole of the Evidence adduced both for and against Social-
ism throughout the Debate.
The Platform Gallery will be reserved for LADIES ;
those, therefore, who could not with
Discussion will have a good opportunity of hearing

stance of the Debate on this occasion

etv attend the

ADMISSION.—To the Boxes and Platform, 6d. ; to the
Pit, 3d.; and to the Gallery, 2d.—DJors open at Seven, to
commence punctually at Half-past Seven, and close at Half-

past Nine o'Clock

*** A most important LETTER to Sir ROBERT
PEEL, giving a brief but true History of the Birth, Life,
and Public Career of ROBERT OWEN, with the Rise,
Progress, and Decline of his various experiments, will be
found in " BRINDLEY'S GAZETTE" for this Month.
Also a great quantity of other interesting information in re-
lation to CHARTISM, and the LATTER-DAY SAD

Price 3d
OFFICE
venders.

C. DAVIES, North John-street ; STAND:IRD
; LEATIIERBARROW'm ; Elliot-street, and all News-

Friday, December 10, 1841

TO THE CONSERVATIVE MEMBERS OF THE

LIVERPOOL TOWN COUNCIL

GENTLEMEN,—AIIow me to address a very few words to
you on the important subject of education, which is now
anxiously occupying your attention, and on which. I grieve,
both for your own and the town's sake, to see that you con-
tinue to be divided.

After a careful perusal of your rather angry debates, it
appears to me that the reasons, which seem to influence cer-
tain members of your body in their hesitation to vote the
expulsion of the Douay Bible with note and comment and
the introduction of prayer, may be reduced to the three fol-
lowing heads :-
1. They think that they will lie under a charge of bigotry,

if they presume to decide arbitrarily what is trath, in oppo-
sition to the conscientious opinions of others. They con-
ceive, therefore. that, in thus hesitating, they are manifest-
ing a very graceful rnodesty.
2. The priests of the Romish schism in this town have
assured them, that, if they venture to expel. the Douay ver-
sion and introduce prayer, no Romish child will attend the
schools. In that case, say our kind-hearted friends in the
Council, hundreds of poor little Roman Catholic children
will be turned out into the street, to pick up their education
where they can, or rather where they cannot. The hesitation
of these gentlemen assumes the delightful form of ebarity.

legs, declaiming, that.

3. Some gentlemen are on the
since the money by which these schools are to be

comes. indiscriminately from the pockets of all religiohists, it
is very unfair that all sects should not be equally educated.
These persons are, therefore, hesitating under the banner of
justice. _ . . .

Under these imposing heads—modesty, charity, and jus-
tice—suffer me respectfully to make a few remarks.

1. With regard to the modest hesitaters, I observe, that
they are supposing them Selves to be in a position in which
they are not now placed, unless, indeed, they have chosen
voluntarily to place themselves in it. The question which
they look upon themselves as now called upon to decide has
been already decided, as far as this country is concerned.
The lecislature of this land has already made its selection
amongst the conflicting bodies of professing Christians. It
has chosen that church of Christ, which was originally
planted in England, and is now happily purified from Latin
superstition, as the keeper of the truth, and has established
it that it may hold forth the truth to the subjects. The state,

of this

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ate adjourned council, for the despatch of the remaining
monthly business, was held, in the Town-hall, on Wednesday.
The Mayor presided.

CHURCH EXPENDITURE COMMITTEE.
The minutes of this committee were read. The committee
recommended a reduction in the pew rents of St. Michael's
Church. Touching the question of the appointment of an
organist in the room of Mr. Clough, it appeared that some
doubts are entertained as to whether the appointment is in
the council. Subsequently a memorial applying for the
situation was referred to the committee, and it was under-
stood that applications were to be made to the committee,
which body is to recommend to the council.

COURT OF REQUESTS' COMMITTEE.
The committee recommended that the salaries of William
Worrall, Richard Whittham, William Jenkins, and Daniel
Wells, summons officers, and John Whiteside and James
Roberts, assistant execution officers, be raised from 21s. to
245. per week. It appeared that one of the officers of the
court had been discharged, it having been communicated, in a
report from Mr. Lowndes, that he had struck a suitor of the
court. A recommendation was embodied that application
should be made to parliament to alter the constitution of the
court, so that the cases should in future be decided by a jury
of five. The proceedings were approved and adopted.
Mr. BIRKETT wished to know how many applications had
been made to parliament relative to this court.
Mr. BRIGHT said several applications had been made, and
former committees had requested to have a jury, and against
that the authorities appeared to have set their laces.
The TOWN-CLERK said their great object had been to ob-
tain a jury, and this had been met by great opposition in
London, where a pretty general opinion was entertained that
it was best to leave decisions in courts of this nature to one
sole judge, who should be a barrister.
Mr. COOPER said the corporation was losing £7OO a year
by this court, yet the expenses on small debts were exceed-
ingly . There was no doubt, if they could get trial by
-v could gain £2OOO a year.

great
jury, the•

MEMORIAL FROM SHIPBUILDERS

A memorial was presented from certain shipbuilders, whose
yards will be displaced by the intended new docks, soliciting '
compensation for the heavy sacrifices which they will have to
make for the public benefit.
Mr. BOLTON said the Town-clerk would be prepared to in-
form the council that the parties in question had held the
yards with the express understanding that the space would be
ultimately required for docks.
The TOWN-CLERK said the tenancies were all determinable
on six months' notice, and the parties had all known, since
109, that the space would be required for the public service.
Mr. COOPER thought, as the parties were old tenants of the
corporation, they ought to be compensated for the inconveni-
ence to which they would be put.
Mr. BUSHELL said he had been requested to support this
application. He refused, because he thought the proposition
most monstrous. No man could for a moment hesitate what
to do if it were his own property. He would expect that his
tenant should quit on regular notice, and would never think
of paying him to do so. Why should they deal with public
property in a different manner from what they would with
their own ?
The TOWN-CLERK pointed out that property like this, let
at half a years' notice, must be let at a disadvantage to the
owner. The parties had constantly been aware that the pro-
perty would be wanted.

ST INDIA MAILS

Mayor. showing that Sir Hesketh

1. Sir (

Strickland, and other members of
parliament, would interest themselves for the purpose of
making Liverpool the port of arrival and departure for the
West India mails.
Mr. G. H. LAwits)rc

spoke of the address of the Finance
for the purpose of having Liverpool appointed the
.or the mails in question. He pointed out that the
committee had great local interests to contend with, and that
they had a difficulty which proved almost insuperable, in the
direct promise of the government that a channel port should
be used. The matter, however, would not be suffered to
sleep, and he hoped that they would he able eventually, not
only to make Liverpool a station for the West India mails,
Dublin mails to this side of the water.
,k for this, however, they must do all they
nmodation of the public, in making good

Committ

station f

but to bring back t
Before they coulrl
could f

Mr. BRIGHT thou

the object of such vast importance
be appointed specially for the pur-

that a committee shoul
pose.
The MAYOR thought the matter would be vigilantly at-
tended to by the Finance Committee.

ORPHAN SCHOOL

A letter was read fr;n3 the Rev. Rector Brooks, applying
for a piece of land on which to erect a school for orphans.
Mr. AIKIN spoke in high terms of the proposed institu-
tion, and moved that the subject be referred to the proper
committee, with instructions for them to select a suitable

piece of land

seconded the motion, and expressed a de-
sire that they should add the building as well as the land.

Mr. BUSHELL

The motion was carried

STANDING ORDERS.
The subject of the standing orders and additional amend-
ments proposed therein, as already suggested and notified
by the town-clerk, was taken up. The first of these was,
that the mayor, instead of being ex-officio member of all
,omm, -flicio member of all permanent com-
mitte

committees, by an ex

Mr..G. H. LAWRENCE supported the alteration,
pointing out what he conceived to be the inconvenience of
hating the mayor an ex-officio member of sub-committees.
He was strongly opposed by Mr. Bushell and Mr. Evans,
who ridiculed the idea of not having the mayor a member of
the sub-committees, when he, as chief magistrate of the
tows, should be conversant with all that was passing. On
the motion of Mr. Aticriv, seconded by Mr. BUSHELL, the
rule was passed in its original shape, without the word per-
manent. . .

Mr. PROCTER moved, as a standing order, " that every
memorial intended to be presented at any quarterly or
monthly meeting of the Council shall be presented to the
Council by the member to whom such memorial shall be en-
trusted, and a copy of which memorial shall be filed, in the
office of the Town-clerk, before five o'clock in the after-
noon of the day preceding the day for summoning, in order
that the same may be mentioned in the notice and sum-
mons." His object was that the memorials should be well
understood by the Council. He had seen memorials read
by the Mayor, and suddenly laid aside, without any of the
Council knowing what they were about.
Mr. EVANS opposed the motion.
Mr. PARKER seconded the motion.
Mr. EVANS said such an order would be productive of
few of which probably would be de-
serving of being read. They might have hereafter (he would
except the present company), members who might wish to
distinguish themselves by making speeches. Such persons
would, in a manner, invite memorials, and the council would
be entertained by long speeches.
Mr. AIKIS, Mr. BUSHELL, the mayor, Mr. EARLE, and
Mr. BIRKETT, opposed the motion, being of opinion that it
would exclude many memorials.
Mr. BUSHELL thought that there would be no harm in
ordering that all memorials should be filed, but Mr. Earle
objected to this, as it might be desirable to keep a memorial
secret till the day it was to be brought forward, and the
council had no right to compel a member to make the con-
tents of his memorial public till he thought proper. Ulti-
mately Mr. Procter's proposition was lost, all the members
present, with the exception of the mover and seconder,

more memorials, vt.

we please ?
The TowN-CLERK.--yes.
The conversation here dropped

had give

corporation's a,

voted against it.
Mr, Procter's other motion, that standing order No. 38,
relating to the schools, be rescinded, was withdrawn.
THE DIVISIONS.
Mr. BOLTON said that before the standing orders were
disposed of, he wished to have a clear understanding upon a
certain point. His own impression had been that nothing
could be considered as carried in the council when there was
not a majority of the members present in favour of it. It
would be in their recollection that when the Education Com-
mittee had been chosen, sixty members were present, twen-
ty-eight of whom voted for Mr. Harbord, twenty-six for
Mr. Lloyd, and six for Mr. Aikin. He then thought that
as Mr. Aikin had only six votes in his favour, the question
should lie between Mr. Harbord and Mr. Lloyd. He wished
to know what the standing order, or what the law was, in
such a case, should it occur again ; because, although twenty-
eight was not the majority of sixty, Mr. Harbord had been
declared elected.
The TOWN-CLERK admitted that if there was to be a re-
election between the two, the votes given for the third party
might turn the scale. If, for instance, there were twenty for
one party, sixteen for another, and five for a third, the one
having the twenty would stand the highest upon the numbers ;
yet, if there was to be another election between the party
having the twenty and the party having the sixteen, the five
votes thrown away might be in favour of the one having the
sixteen. In point of law, if three persons were put up for
one office, and that there were twenty votes for one, sixteen
for another, and five for a third, the one having the twenty
would he legally carried. This had occurred in cases of
election for members of parliament. There was no going
over the ground a second time when one only was to be
elected ; and therefore, if there was to be any alteration of
the rule on the subject in the council, it should be made
matter for a new standing order. He recollected only one
instance in which it had been proposed that there should be
a re-election between the two parties having the largest num-
bers, and that Ras in the election of a mayor ; but the result
in the first trial in that case was such that there was no occa-
sion to go into it a second time.
Mr. BOLTON said that a person having only twenty votes
in his favour might be elected a member of committee, pro-
vided four candidates should happen to be nominated, and
that the large number of sixty-four members should happen
to be present. Under such circumstances he begged to give
notice to the following effect, that no person should be elect-
ed to any office who should not have the votes of a majority
of the members present in his favour.
Mr. MELLOR wished to put another question to the town-
clerk, namely, whether it had not been irregular to allow
Mr. Aikin's name to be put forward on the occasion in ques-
tion. The seventh standing order set forth that when an
amendment was made no second amendment could be taken
into consideration until the first should have been disposed
of. When Mr. Harbord had been proposed, an amendment
was moved, and then another member jumped up and pro-
posed a second amendment ; therefore he thought the rule
had been altogether violated in that instance.
The TOWN-CLERK was of opinion that the seventh stand-
ing order referred to amendments on resolutions, and not as
to whether one, four, five, or seven parties should be pro-
posed as candidates.. The notice, however, which Mr. Bol-
ton had given was perfectly reasonable, and the law would
make valid any standing order to such an effect.
Mr. BIRKETT referred to the election of a tax-collector,
which had taken place a few days before, in which three
parties had gone to the poll, and the highest was declared
elected. He thought this case precisely similar to the one
to which Mr. Bolton had alluded.
Mr. AIKIN said that in all popular elections the rule was
as the town-clerk had laid it down ; but it was never so in a
deliberative assembly.
The TowN-CLERK said that the council might adhere to
the standing order, or determine that the election should
ke place in the manner suggested by Mr. Bolton, because
notice given by the latter was a reasonable one.
EvANs.—Then we can make a special case of it when

THE MUNICIPAL
Busu ELL proposed the followingACT. motion, of which he
u notice :—." That a committeel? e appointed to take
ito consideration the various discrepancies
cts, and to make such representations
in the municipal
:besentations and to
e he said, that
for the amend-
)pt such measures as may appear advis
!nt of those acts." He could not imagine,
ere could be offered any opposition to this proposalo on any
but one which
de, because it was not a party question,
reefed them all in a very high degree. No one
could con-
emn more than he did any attempt on the part of
;overning body to interfere with the acts of the general
attire, but, in the present case, the council were directly gals—d
and, therefore, it ways
collectively affected. They hail been elected under, and thne
were governed by, the municipal laws,
of deep importance that those laws should work properly and
beneficially. He would ask who so competent to judge of
the working of those laws as the municipal bodies, or as the
H
corporation of Liverpool in particular ? (ear, hear.) By
reason of the extent of the Liverpool constituency had,,
anandper-
the
great conflict of the contending parties they d
haps ever would have, in the town, defects had shown
ese them
ws-
selves in Liverpool by reason of the working of th la,
which might not have exhibited themselves in any
other
town ; and, therefore, no corporation could be better ena-
bled to set an example to the country at large on such a sub-
ject as the present, than the corporation of Liverpool. (Hear)
It had been asked bF Mr. G. H. Lawrence at the time he