The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-07-22 00:00:00

•
stamps as an article of trade which one party could transfer to
another. But they had already enacted that. this should not be
dune, and had declared that all persons transferring stamps from
one newspaper to another should be subject tea penalty of E5O.
After reading the clause to that effect, the right hon. baronet
proceeded to say that it was evident from its wording' that they
required the party to take out stamps for his own use, and for
that of no other person. The Stamp-office would, know it as
as it would do even if the house should determine to adept this
distinctive die. But it did not follow, because the house adopted
this distinctive die, it therefore decided that the amount of his
circulation should he published. The lion. member for Kilmar-
nock said that he wassatisfied with the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer's neclaration, that this clause should be permissive„ and
that he was satisfied with it on this ground, that, being permis-
sive, it would impose upon eveiy newspaper proprietor an obli-
gation to employ the die, as the non-employmont of it would
lead the public to believe that he shrunk trout that test of circu-
lation to which ethers readily submitted, and he would thus he
exposed to opprobium and obloquy. Now, he asked this ques-
tion--" Have you the right to expose newspaper proprietors to
this opprobrium and obloquy ?" Such an exposure was an indi-
reef, and therefore unfair, mode of compulsion. The hod: them-
' ber said, that it would expose a newspaper proprietor to oppro-
brium and obloquy if he did not take out thisdie. Now if oppro-
brium and obloquy were to attach to those who did not takeout
the die, that was a compulsion upon all to take it out. The ex-
pense of the die would be, he anticipated, very trifling. What
was it?

Mr. S. Ricci.—lt is very trifling—quite insignificant.
Sir R. PEEL.--He anticipated that it was so insignificant as
not to form a restriction of which any newspaper proprietor
could complain. As taking out the die would be fairer to all
pat ties, and as not taking it out would not in all cases arise from
a fear of its showing a defect of circulation, he thought that they
ought to establish the die in all cases, for the die would not prove
more than the niers, publication. Not having heard any valid
objection to this clause on the part of the Chancellor of the
Exchequer, he was ihclined to give it his support.
➢lr. If Ick.—Personally I have no objection to the clause.
Unquestionably I should like some date to be fixed when the die
is to come into operation.
Mr. GaoTE had no objection to let an interval of time elapse
before the die was brought into operation.
Mr. H tea then said, that if the hon. memberwould reserve his
clause for the present, he would take it into consideration.
The clause was accordingly postponed.
Sir R. PEEL wished to ask the, right hon. gentleman the
Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he proposed to fix any
penalty for assuming the established name of a newspaper
which was a great object? (Hear, hear.)
Mr. RICE said (as we understood) that it was provided fur by
a clause in the bill.

Mr. HesiE wished to know what was the right hon. gentle-
man's (Mr. Rice's) definition of a newspaper?
Mr. Rica said that perhaps it would save trouble if he went
through the definition, and stated in what it would differ from
what it was at present. He stated on a previous evening that
that would be a newspaper under these schedules which was a
newspaper under the existing laws. There was one alteration,
however, to which he wished to call the attention of the commit-
tee—one which lie thought he was bound to make in justice,
and which could he made without inconvenience. He had
heard from the fiscal department that no inconvenience would
arise from the alteration to which he was about to call the at-
tention of the committee. Under the definition in the 6Qth of
George 111. these words were included :—" Also any paper
containing any news, occurrences, &c.•" and then came these
words—"or upon any matter in church and state." This gave
rise to a supposition, that, if one were to publish a history of the
reformation, which concerned the church, or a history of the
reign of Queen Elizabeth, which concerned the state; but this
was not news within the fair and proper interpretation of the
words, and would yet fall under the definition. Now he pro-
posed the exclusion of these words, as the only effect of them
was to bring under the newspaper act matters concerning church
and state which were not news, nor occurrences, nor commen-
taries upon news or occurrences. This alteration would lead
to no possible inconvenience.
Sir R. PEEL said that there was one part of this subject to
which he was anxious to draw the attention of the committee:
he meant the subject of copyright. He hoped that it was the
intention of his right hon. friend (Mr. Rice) to make the pro-
tection of copyright concurrent with any changes in the law.
They were about to make a great revolution in the mode of
conducting newspapers simply by the reduction of the stamp
duty, which would destroy what some called a monopoly, but
what others considered to be the true cause of the very high
character of the press of this country, more particularly with
respect to its intelligence. In making these great changes it
was a matter of strict justice and sound policy to devise some
means of giving for a short period some copyright. Unless
there was at the same time a remedy of a summary nature, in
point of fact no copyright could be effectual.. He must say,
that, of the phenomena of civilized society, he doubted whether
there was any thing more remarkable than the mode in which
the people of this country were supplied with intelligence.
(Loud cheers.) It was one of the most wonderful instances in
which, without the intervention of government, merely by dint
of private exertion and expense, the public was supplied from
all parts of the globe with that intelligence the possession of
which, constituted one of the great sources of rational amuse-
ment and entertainment. (Loud cheers.) Some said that the
press of this country was less eminent in point of intellect and
ability than that of other countries. He did not entertain that
opinion. Of course, in the free discussion of political questions
• there wouln be always much of act iniony, of personal comment,
and reproach ; but, upon the whole, comparing the press of this
country to that of France or the United States, or as it existed
in any other country, or ever did exist, it was a remarkable
instance of ability and intelligence, of readiness of application
in the mode in which the public intelligence was procured
through the intervention of private men, and a most remarkable
instance of the application of capital. Unless they secured the
possession of thisantelligence to those who procure it at such
labour and expense in the first instance, it was the only mode
in which it could be obtained, and a sufficient inducement held
out to those persons who thus incurred such expense. He
hoped at the same time that they reduced the amount of duty,
which may have operated as a monopoly, that they would act
consistently with justice and make concurrently some regulations
by which those who had been at the trouble and expense of
procuring the earliest intelligence might be protected from being
deprived, for a few hours at least, of the exclusive advantage of
that intelligence. He hoped that in the course of the session
some effectual means would be devised also to prevent all in-
terference with the title of a newspaper for the purpose of
imposing on the public, and he hoped that, within certain limits
(for there must be limits,) those who had gone to the expense
of many thousands in procuring intelligence would, in the first
place, be allowed a copyright ; and next, that it would he made
effectual by some summary process.
Mr. Rica rejoiced that the right hon. baronet had made the
statement they had just heard. It would be in the recollection
of many members present, that in a former debate, 12 months
ago, he stated, that it not only appeared just and proper, but
that it was a positive obligation on them to protect as far as they
possibly could the property that was invested in newspapers,
and which might be invested in them in future. They knew,
though it might be scarcely regular according to the orders of
the house to advert to it, that the machinery of the press to
which the right hon. baronet had adverted was most wonderful.
(Hear, hear.) The debates in that house, up to three and four
o'clock iu the morning, were reported with surprising accuracy
—indeed, considering the difficulties of the case, withextraordi-
i nary accuracy, precision, and general fairness. This was done
at a very considerable expense, and it would be extremely un-
fair if, after being put to this expense, they were, through the
rapidity of printing, to be deprived of the advantages which
they had obtained through their own labour and capital, and it
should be made available to others who had contributed no
labour or capital. He was, therefore, most anxious and willing
to undertake the responsibility of devising some effectuil•
scheme, for unlesS it was effectual it would be better not to have
it at all—he was most anxious to devise one. Protection to the
titles of newspapers might be easily given, and the more easily,
by reason of the clause proposed by the hon. member fur the
city of London (Mr. Grote) which provided a distinctive die
for each paper. They might easily protect the titles, but with
respect to the question of copyright, then came the question
how were they to distinguish what was original matter from
what was copied ? With respect to the reports in that house,
for instance, wie paper might say, why should it be prevented
from taking a report as well as another paper, whilst at the same
time it was but a copy or the report of the other paper. They
might provide that the reports should not be published within a
limited time, unless the party publishing them could give satis-
factory evidence that the reports were furnished from notes
taken for that paper. With respect to foreiga intelligence,
there would be great difficulty in distinguishing what was ori-
ginal and what was taken from foreign newspapers. With re-
spect to the remedy, undoubtedly the remedy to be effectual
must be summary. He considered it obligatory on Parliament
to countenance some just plan of carrying this object into ef-
fect. He had already received a scheme on the subj :et, and
had communicated it to the parties interested, and when that
plan was prepared he would submit it to the house, and he
hoped it would receive a favourable consideration.

Sir R. PEEL, as a proof of what he had stated, recollected
several instances in which the first intelligence that govern-
ment had received of important facts during the war was from
the newspapers, and those newspaper establishments were some-
times in opposition to the government when they made these
communications.

The schedules of the bill were then agreed to, and, the
Chairman having left the chair, the house resumed.
The CHAIRMAN reported the bill as amended, and the report
was ordered to be received to-morrow.

Dr. BOWRING wished to know whether th© report would be
printed before the third reading was moved ?
Mr. RICE was extremely anxious to proceed as soon as yos•
sible. He had already been reproached with delay, and he
was unwilling to delay the third reading till the bill was
printed. •
Mr. ROBINSON wished to know whether the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had made up his mind with respect to the other parts
of this bill?
Mr. RICE would answer this question on Thursday next.
Mr. WA K LEY thought, that as there were many new clauses
in the bill, it ought to be printed before it was reported.
Mr. Rica said, that there was not a single clause that had not
been fully argued. There was a great deal of anxiety upon the
subject of this bill, and that was the reason he was so anxious
to go on with it as soon as possible.
Mr. WAICLEY saw no reason for such extreme haste. The
bill would not come into operation till September, and there
would, therefore, he ample time for printing it, which would not
take more than two or three days ; the third reading might be
fixed for the end of the week.
The paper duties bill was read a third time and passed.
The adjourned debate on the report of the county elections
polls bill was again adjourned till Thursday.
The lighthouses bill was read a third time and passed with
new clauses.

HOUSE OF COLONS.-TUESDAY.

Lord F. EGEitToN presented two petitions from dignitaries
and clergymen against parts of the church discipline bill, praying
for an alteration of the number of clergymen to act as a jury,
and that the powers of those who are to administer the bill be
"defined and limited." The second petition complained of
some of the recommendations in the report of the church com-
missioners, and especially the recommendation to transfer church
patronage without any objection being taken to the manner in
which it had been applied.

r 1 number of petitions, upon various subjects, were presented
in the course of the night.
Mr. RoniNsoN inquired whether the agricultural committee
were likely to make any report?
Mr. SA NFOUD answered that they had come to the determina-
tion to present the evidence unaccompanied by any report:
The notaries public bill was deferred till next session, Mr.
C. BuLLEIt having stated, in answer to -Dr. Nichol!, that he
feat ed he could not make it as perfect as he wished this session.

The CHANCELLOR of the Excuir.catiEn, in answer to Mr.
Buller, stated that it was the intention of the government to
proceed with the poor law act amendment bill this session.
Mr. WA KI.Ev gave notice that he would put a question to the
Secretary at War to-morrow regarding the conduct of soldiers
wearing side arms.
Mr. WA RBURTON stated that he should proceed with the
Trotabeck case on Monday next, at a tweive o'clock sitting.
Mr. 'V..Sm ITH inured the further consideration of the report
on tie charitable trustees bill, and entered into details to prove