The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-04-03 00:00:00

SPECIAL VESTRY.

- ---
On Tuesday a speCial general vestry was held in St Ni-
ell°l4s's Church; for appointing overseers of the poor for the
-gluing year; d for taking into consideration the Liverpool
clock bill,"" •
t, recently introduced into the House of Commons,
er,eartieulaly in reference to the loss to the parish in the way
:Lives from the dismantling of the existing warehouses and
ship building yards to the westward of the Salthouse Dock.
the Rev. Rector BROOKS was in the chair.
LOWNDES, the Vestry-Clerk, having reed the notice
"ovening the meeting,
j,Mr. SAMUEL HOLME proposed Mr. George Groom. Mr.
`1,11E5 ASPINALL seconded.the motion.
'l°,lle objection being made by Mr. SLATER, on the ground
that Mr• Groom had resigned,
ASPINALL said, he had Mr. Groom's authority for
-4M,Y..ing that he would serve again.
44r. HOLME objected to the Select Vestry nominating the
overseers of the parish. He begged to say, that there were -
VeVeil persons as parishioners, and they, and not the Select
to estrY, had the right to elect those persons who, according
tl)eir belief would honestly and efficiently discharge the
duties of the office.
, SLATER said, the Select Vestry did not take upon
lqself to nominate the overseers ; but when a party had been
o-
it, ince some time, and signified a disposition to relinquish
erg Vestry communicated that intention to the parishion-
-oa44ratohirge there must be some significant reason for
1.• "room coming forward after having sent in his resigna-
lllhtY'f
APINALL said, he took upon himself the responi-
Mr Groom's coining forward ; and he did it tor
ieans which. he would state. He very seldom interfered
t,"rish affairs, but he was induced to come down now, be-
Saejr, a short time ago, an observation had been made in the
believYestry, that it was exceedingly ungentlemanlike, he
agnit;e°, to interfere at all in asking Mr. Groom to stand
iio He was willing that any odium belonging to that ex-
true,atshod attach to him, because he knew it was not
ne sidpLl.," bad done his duty in protesting against what he
lame -le,ALL•an improper interference with the parishioners at
(Hear.) There was another reason why he came
tilletje,.whic was, to protest against a calumny which had been
itlout against the Conservatives of Liverpool. He held
te • hand the Albion, in which they were accused of it too much with the Vestry, and wanting to make it all
th r 'mu. They knew their power, certainly--(hear)—bnt
eY had not used it in the way spoken of. When Mr.
,y_rooin's resignation was mentioned, what did the other party
i!,?? The Conservatives never interfered so tong. as an erini- •
„wrillnl of power was maintained, so long as there were two
-ivetseers of one party and two of the other. But what did
tl'e• Select Vestry do ? They proposed a third Reformer ; so
ciat the parish was to have three Reformers and only one
s„:;_iste.irke‘..•yative. (H.ear.) He said the Parishioners at large
att 't would have interfered on the present occasion, if this
e Pt had not been made ; but lie came there to tell them
would not submit I . to 't (Cheers.)
71:"e, nomination being carried, Mr. Wm. Rushton, Mr.
Muncaster, and Mr. Joseph Gibbons ere succes-
Y proposed. The two former were elected w
without 0P-
Positioe.
ir' f A IAPPER. moved that Mr. Walthew be substituted
°r\ r. Gibbons.
atilr' SLATER complained that gentlemen who objected to
undue preponderance being given to the liberals,' were
hy‘v of an equally undue preponderance to the other side
tAttiOininating a third conservative. He appealed to the
:prig if this was fair.
. titid ASPINALL.—You set us the example, and now you
Niwe can beat you, you complain of it. (A laugh.)
hater; HoLuE said, though himself and his brother were
take"g the largest rate-payers in the town, he would not have
:vi.,"Y Part at that meeting, had it not been from the
over euge that the other arty wanted to
,cram three radical
av6,„s.ners down their throats; and he boldly and unhesitatingly
stop-to that he attended there for the purpose of putting a
plc,° what be considered a nefarious proceeding. (Hear.)
IC,NAPPER'S motion having been seconded,
(Abbe Cliairtieasz called for a show of hands, and Mr.
Lela as was elected, about half-a-dozen hands only being
Th"l) ot opposition.
,rhe proliieting then proceeded to the subject of the dock bill.
Navin„ t!ls.stons of the bill, as stated in the marginal heads,
Als 74 recited by the Vestry-clerk,
"Itese.,.4 ttocToß said, as this was a question involving the
feeht,;," of almost all classes in the town, he thought the
ittg it°s of the inhabitantsait large ought to be taken respect-
Call Auk ,e therefore moved that the churchwardens should
A Mr,le meetne, and have it there discussed.
'tout '4°wNnes :aid, that was precisely what they had
the meeting was there assembled.
„
iat a„ iatioron then begged to move that it be adjourned to
for such-LY week. He did not think the church a proper place
,tile,a ng.
Dower htAlltiameetiaN explained that the churchwardens had no
't°ll
,calla meeting except in the church. He sincerely
• C laW were altered 'in that respect ; a bill had been
114,., it Into Parliament for the purpose, but it had unfortu-
taiY not been carried.
l'.mrtla;--ROe'ron, under these circumstances, would with-
ift!,44 "s motion.
I,4lste'd P'aRD said, he had a resolution to propose which he
` of tfly°old meetavith unanhnous approbation. By clause
have
t(lie bill under consideration, the dock trustees would
With • Purchase the graving-docks No. 1,2, and 3, together
builtaii:erY large quantity of land, now occupied as ship-
' Yards, or covered with buildings. This was very

valuable, and would yield a large return to the corporate
fund ; at a moderate estimate, not less than £200,000. or
£250,000. He had looked the bill very carefully through,
and he found nothing said as to the appropriation of this
money. He should therefore move a resolution to the effect
that the Select Vestry do petition Parliament to insert a
clause into the bill, making it lawful for the corporation to
apply this £2.50,060. or whatever other sum might be realized,
in liquidation of the present bonded debt. He thought they
would agree with him, that so large a receipt ought not to
pass into the hands of the corporation, to be disposed of ac-
cording to the whim or caprice of the party who might be in
power. He would call their attention to the manner in which
the corporation had already disposed of whatever funds they
had become possessed of, and the expedition with which they
had emptied their coffers. He had taken the last three years,
not thinking it worth while to go further back, as they had
only been four years in office. He had extracted from their
general accounts the extraordinary receipts of money ; and he
would show that they had had a very large receipt indeed,
and that the balance in August last was very trifling in com-
parison. The account between the corporation and their
treasurer for August 31, 1837, showed the following extraor-
dinary receipts:
Cash in Bank and in the hands £ s. d. £ s. d.
of the Treasurer..
Cash borrowed on Bond £31,600

Less paid in liquidation
of Bond Debt 145

31,455 0 0
Received for declining to serve
office under the municipal act 50 0 0
Sale of the Advowson of St. - _

Luke's Church, and Interest 1,621 11 I 0
49,998 14 7

1838.

Sale of Reversions 1,764 0 0
Received on account of Advow-

sons 96 0 0
Ry amount borrowed on Bond 56,650 0 0
Interest from Trustees of En-
dowment Fund.

1839.
Received for fines for declining
to serve office 177 0 0
Sale of Reversions .

---- ---.—
Sales— of Athowsons 12,509 2 0
From Trustees of the Clergy En-
dowment £105,000
Less paid in liquidation
of Bond Debt 57,820
47,180 0 0

69,322 0 0

Interest from Trustees of En-
dowment Fund
Cash borrowed on Bond ..
103,305 13 8

222,626 8 3

Cash in. Bank and in the hands
of the Treasurer

33,304 11 9

Total expenditure over and above
the amount received as ordi-
nary income £189,321 16 6
So that in three years they had got through the enormous
sum of £189,321 16s 6d. He might, therefore, safely say,
that if they got the £250,000 from the sale of this property,
in two or three years nobody would know where it was.
(Hear.) He called their attention to this system of making
away with money, no matter what its amount. They were
capable of getting through it to any extent. A. laugh.) He
believed the first act they had contemplated obtaining was
for power to borrow £250,000 ; and a portion of this they
had borrowed at several sums amounting to £127,455 in three
years ; consequently, they would have £122,455 to borrow,
to complete the amount. If, in addition, they got•from the
dock estate £250,000, they would have something like X 370,000
to spend during the next few years. This was Coo much.
He held in his hand a bill called the Liverpool borough fund
bill, to enable the Corporation to raise money. Could it be
believed that a body of men with such funds at their com-
mand, would be applying to parliament to borrow money ?
If this were " reform, ' he hoped "reform" would never
again be coupled with "retrenchment." (Hear and'cheers.)
Reform and extravagance would be a more appropriate com-
bination. With something like £400,000 in view, they wanted
additional facilities for raising money ! Mr. Ford here read
one of the clauses of the bill. He believed the people would
lend them any quantity, and for this reason, that the estate
in their immediate possession was not the only estate liable
for the payment in case of deficiency. They could lay a rate
to tax every inch of property in the borough. (Hear; hear.)
He should like them to have set this forth ; but they had
not the candour to do so. There was another point. As if
to gull the public, they had inserted a very curious clause,
empowering the council to create a sinking fund to repay the
money, at the rate of .:Cleoo per annum for every X 50,000
they borrowed, besides interest. Suppose they were to go
on borrowit*r for ten years at this rate,' as he had no doubt
they would, from the sample they had had of their proceed-
ings, he fancied they would find themselves somewhat in the
condition of the man with the wooden leg chasing the hare—
the more he ran, the more he was left behind. (Laughter.)
Mr. Ford concluded by moving a resolution to the foregoing
purport.
Some conversation arose as to whether the resolution fell
legitimately within the scope of the preamble of the bill ; and
the vestry-clerk gave it as his opinion that it did not ; it
would be grafting upon a dock bill a measure relating to the
corporation, and the two were perfectly distinct. , -
Mr. Foan withdrew his motion, and proposed, in lieu of it
that the churchwardens be empowered to oppose any clauses
in the bill that might appear to them injurious to the interests
of the parish, and to apply for the introduction of such clauses
as they might consider advantageous to it.
Mr. KNAPPER conceived that not only the proposed ware-
houses ought to be assessed and rated, but likewise the new
docks. He considered it a grievous thing for the parishioners
that the dock estate should pay no rates, when two thirds of
the pauperism was brought by the docks.
Mr. BIRKETT observed, that the shipowners would not
be the least sufferers by the proposed act. If the corpora-
tion, instead of building warehouses themselves would allow
private individuals to build them, one quarter of the money
would suffice.

The CHAIRMAN having risen to put the question to the
meeting, _ . .

Mr. -Holz thought the parishioners ought to know more
d i smt i
.c till 0
1-h
m what t
shyaei d
tehr
jnegat owspend theirprevent mo n
telly
ea bdoouct.
k
trustees having power to erect warehouses out of the public
funds, and obtaining the power of discharging vessels, and
employing coopers, and becoming master porters and master
carters, doing that which would be much better done by in-
dividuals, and in which they would have no pecuniary interest.
The bill would destroy property now rated to the parish, with-
out giving any equivalent.
Mr. COOPER directed Mr. Holt's attention to the :rating
clauses. He had contended in the council for a clause im-
posing all the parochial rates. But what did it turn out?
They had agreed to pay the poor rates, but forgot the paving
and sewerage, and watching and lighting rates..
Mr. 11 our said, the dock trustees paid these out of their
own purse.
Mr. DOVER admitted they did so : but were not the goods
from the warehouses to be sent along the streets, and who
was to pay for the wear and tear of the roads thus occasioned ?
(Hear.) On the subject of the dock warehouses a great deal
of delusion was studiously kept up. No man' could have a
higher respect for Mr. Holt than he had; but he would ask
Mr. Holt if he would consider it fair for the corporation to
build offices to his property in Water-street. Mr. Holt was
a most respectable cotton-broker ; but could he sell cotton
against the corporation? (Hear, hear.) He could in one
way, because his concern was worked much cheaper, but he
would be in the Gazette before the corporation would give
in, because they had a sinister end in view, and they would
carry it on to the end of time, though at a loss, because of
the patronage it would put in their hands. (Cheers.) Such
was the grasping disposition manifested by the corporation,
that on reading the bill he had looked anxiously forward till
he should come to a clause empowering them to supply the
town with boots and shoes. (Hear, and a laugh.)
Mr. ISAAC HOLME spoke at some length against the mea-
sure, and reprobated in particular one clause, by which the
Dock Committee was authorised to seize any goods not
entered within forty-eight hours after a vessel had been re-
ported. The warehouse scheme would do incalculable
injury, not to warehouse owners only, but to all owners of
property adjacent to the docks. Ten guineas had been
offered for land for which £3 could not now be obtained.
Mr. HOLME corroborated the latter statement of the last
speaker. Land on the east side of the Salthouse Dock sold
some time ago at £lO a square yard. At a sale by the cor-
poration on Thursday last ,two lots of land had been put up ;
the highest offer for one was £4, and for the other £3 10s.
This showed the mischief arising even from the agitation of
the subject. The whole property must be reduced in value,
and consequently contribute less to the parish, by the com-
petition of dock warehouses.
Mr. FORD contended that the new dock would be more
for the benefit of Manchester than Liverpool, especially if
the.people of Manchester succeeded in obtaining the privi-
lege of bonding.
After some further discussion, of a desultory character,
the Chairman suggested that Mr. Holt should move an
amendment.
Mr. HOLT declined; and the motion being put from the
chair, was carried with only one or two dissentients.