The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-06-05 00:00:00

MEETING OF THE PROPRIETORS OF THE
BOTANIC-GARDEN.

A meeting of the proprietors of the Botanic-garden was
held at the Clarendon-rooms on Tuesday, for the purpose of
discussing the propriety or otherwise, of opening the garden
to the public on Sundays. The room was crowded by clergy-
men and gentlemen of both parties in politics, amongst whom
were several members of the town-council. The chair was
taken by Charles Horsfall, Esq.
The CHAIRMAN said, the meeting had been convened in
consequence of a numerously signed requisition complaining
that at the meeting at which Mr. Turner's motion had been
carried, not more than one-fifth of the proprietors werepresent,
Mr. T. B. HORSFALL, as one of the requisitionists, begged
to be allowed to make a few observations. He shouldgreatly
regret if it were supposed that they acted from a spirit of fac-
tion, or with any want of courtesy towards the gentlemen who
were opposed to them : nothing was further from their inten-
tions. The question having been before decided by so small
a majority, at a meeting were not more than one-fifth of the
proprietors were present, many of the proprietors having re-
ceived no notice of it whatever, they came to the conclusion
that it was proper, before the subject could be considered as
decided, that another meeting should be called. He would
respectfully call to their recollection the amendment made,
he believed, by their worthy rector, that it would be unwise
to open the gat den to the public on Sundays. In that opinion
he concurred. It would be unwise, as leading to sabbath
desecration, and it would be unwise considering the injury
that might be done to the gardens. All acknowledged the
sabbath to be, at least, a day of rest. The same authority
which declared it to be a day of rest, said that when God
rested the seventh day, he also blessed it, and made it holy.
He had yet to learn, that throwing open the gardens to the
public on Sundays, would not lead to scenes of riot and dese-
cration. He moved that it would be unwise to open the gar-
dens to the public on Sundays, and that the resolution of
Mr. Turnet passed at the last meeting be rescinded.
The Rev. Rector CAMPBELL rose to second the motion.
He did so with great reluctance,—first, because from the state
of his health he could not do proper justice to the subject—
and secondly, because he was reluctant to take any part which
would seem to abridge the enjoyments of the labouring classes,
or curtail the number of their harmless recreations. Yet he
must deliberately avow, that he was adverse to anything that
would have the effect of congregating any large number of
individuals in any particular locality on the Sunday. Such
congregations always ended in levity and dissipation, if not
in actual vice. He had seen such scenes of &gusting dis-
order on the opposite side of the water, in the neighbourhood
of the ferries on the sabbath, that he trembled to think of
anything that was likely to bring about similar scenes on this
side. The rev. gentleman read an extract from the Railway
Magazine showing that the directors of the Croydon railway
—by way of bringing grist to the mill—(and he believed it
was for grist to the mill in the shape of X2OO a-year from the
council that this proposition had been mooted) had erected a
number of booths at Norwood, the consequence of which was
that parties were to be seen fishing, rioting, and drinking in
that district on the sabbath, the place having all the revolting
characteristics of Greenwich Fair. He would not libel the
people of Liverpool so far as to say that they could be guilty
of such excesses : he would not libel the magistrates so far
as to suppose that they would permit them : but there would
be a difficulty in preventing the desecration of the sabbath if
these gardens were thrown open to the public on that day.
He was rather adverse to what might be termed sabbath legis-
lation. He should be cautious how he advocated the enacting
of laws to prevent sabbath desecration, but he should be still
more cautious in enacting laws to promote such desecration.
He believed that this was wished for merely as a precedent
for opening other places : and thus would they soon get to a
Parisian sabbath.

Mr. TURNER said, he had listened with great attention to
what had fallen from the speakers who opposed his views,
but had not heard anything that had altered his opinions.
Why did the people go over the water on Sundays--why did
they go to gin-shops? Why, because here was a town con-
taining two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and they
had not a park or a public garden to go to ! He moved that
the resolution passed at the last meeting be confirmed.
The CHAIRMAN said it had been intimated to him that
there were several ladies outside who had attended for the
purpose of recording their votes. He would suggest that
some gentleman should go outside and take their votes, as it
would prevent them from being put to the inconvenience of
pressing forward into that crowded room.
Several conflicting opinions were expressed on this subject.
Mr. Earle and Mr. Martineau said they had informed several
ladies, who had put the question to them, that there was no
means whereby they could have their votes taken. It was at
length decided to be the general opinion, that, though ladies
might vote, it was not expedient that any person should go
out to receive their votes. There were, however, several dis-
sentients to this opinion,
The Rev. ROBT. DAVIES was not surprised that the ladies
wished to record their votes in opposition to the motion for
opening the gardens to the public on Sundays, for many of
them would of necessity be compelled to pass by the Botanic-
gardens on their way to and from Edge-hill church, on the
afternoon of Sunday ; besides, there was on Edge-mount a
ladies' academy, consisting of a large number of pupils,—
these also would have to pass through the rabble, which would
necessarily be collected around the door of the gardens.
Admission would not be granted to all; some discrimination
would necessarily be made ; the more decent and respectable
would be allowed to enter, while the lowest and vilest would
be excluded. Through this low and vile mob these young
ladies would be forced to make their way to and from church ;
and lie would ask what parent would willingly subject his
daughter to the disgusting scenes, the profane and obscene
language with which their eyes and ears would be assailed ?
Mr. WILLIAM EARLE thought there was a material dif-
ference between those persons who conscientiously believed
that no person could walk innocently in a garden on the
Sabbath, and those who, while they had no scruples in walk-
ing themselves in their gardens, and examining and com-
paring their flowers, would yet prevent other people from
doing so. It had been said that injury would be done to the
plants. There had not seen any injury done to the plants at
the Mount-gardens, when the public were admitted to them.
Between four and five thousand persons had visited the
Botanic-gardens on the Monday preceding and not a twig
injured.
The Rev. Mr. MARTINEAU went into arguments to show
that the Sunday, the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the
week, was not the day (the seventh day) respecting which the
command was given that it should be kept holy, and that if
it were to be so considered, still there was no violation of the
command in walking forth in a garden.
The Rev. Dr. TATTERSIIALL wished to call back the minds
of those present to the circumstance that the Sabbath was a
hallowed day, which was not to be desecrated in any way or
manner. If they observed this day as the Sabbath, they had
the commandment of God, who had blessed it and hallowed
it, that they should keep it holy. With respect to the ques-
tion of health, he bad yet to learn that the religious poor,
who would not use the Sabbath as a day of recreation, were
less healthy than those who did so.
Mr. C. S. PARKER, in reply to the remarks of Mr. Walter
Fletcher, avowed himself to be one of " the unenlightened
and bigoted" majority of the committee, who decidedly op-
posed the admission of the public to the gardens on the
Lord's day, and read from their original minute book, Two
resolutions for the entire closing of the gardens even to pro-
prietors, on Sundays, passed (the latter unanimonsly) at
general meetings held in 1802 and 1808, when the hiitorian
of Leo the Tenth, and the biographers of Poggio Bracciolini
and of Robert Burns, as well as Dr. Traill, the Rev. John
Yates, Mr. William Rathbone;sen., and Mr. Thomas Earle,
were officers of the-institution. Mr. P. then gave notice,
that, at the next annual meeting, in January, he should move
the re-enactment of the original law (which remained in force
till May, 1814,) for the entire closing of the gardens on Sun-
days.
A very general call was made for a division. A. show of
hands was taken, but the Chairman could not with certainty
decide, though he thought the majority was against the open-
ing of the gardens. After some discussion, it was decided
that each individual should sign his name on a paper marked
so as to indicate which way he voted. The result was as fol-
lows :—Against opening the gardens to the public on Sun-
days, 129 ; for opening them, 78 ; majority, 51.
In answer to a question from Mr. Simi., the CHAIRMAN
stated, that the committee had already passed a resolution to
open the gardens to the public on the afternoons of Monday
and Friday in each week. The time when this privilege will
commence is to be announced.
Mr. RATHBONE proposed the thanks of the meeting to
the Chairman, with many warm eulogies on the latter for his
excellent 'and impartial conduct.
The meeting separated at half-past three o'clock.
[A contemporary of yesterday, in his report of Mr. Hors-
fall's speech, has volunteered a correction which was entirely
uncalled for. Mr. Horsfall, in the course of his speech, re-
ferred to the discussion which took place in the council on
the subject of the Botanic Garden, and quoted the following
words as having been spoken by the Mayor, in reference to
the voting on the occasion

" Gentlemen, I have no hesitation in saying, that if mem-
bers had kept their seats, the decision would have been the
very reverse of what it is."

On this quotation our contemporary remarks
" Mr. Horsfall, we think, must either have read an incor-
rect report or have been misinformed. His worship said, or
at least we understood him to say, the very reverse of what
is attributed to him by Mr. Horsfall—namely, that if all the
gentlemen who had left the room had remained, and voted in
the minority, the result would have been precisely the same.
A reference to figures will prove this. At the time of the
first division there were 12 present ; at the second, 36. Now,
if the six who left the room had voted with the minority on
Mr. Yates's motion, the numbers would have been-23 for,
19 against."
Now on referring to the report in the Mercury, we find
the following words attributed to the Mayor :
" The Mayor said it might be as well to notice, that if all
the gentlemen who had gone out had voted, they would have
altered the decision of the question as it then stood."
Between these expressions and the language quoted by
Mr. Horsfall we can only discover a slight verbal difference.]

A BILL OF THE PLAY.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

SlR,—The following is the copy of a posting-bill which
adorned the walls of Southport only last week (m the year
of grace 1840). Surely a more precious document never
sprung from priestly, pen or printer's press! I cannot hell,
transmitting you a copy, premising these two things :--lst.
That the heading of it, " New Catholic Church," is beauti-
fully true, since the Romish church is peculiar, and if at the
same time it be catholic or"universal, it must be very parti-
cularly new indeed. 2d. That the amendment I beg to offer
on the exquisite original is, in my opinion, for truth and
beauty, " something more exquisite still."
" NEW CATHOLIC CHURCH.—The Catholic church at
Southport will be opened on Wednesday next, May 20.1840.
Tickets for admission may be had at the Bold Arms Hotel ;
at Mr. Whitehead's, London-road; the Reverend James
Newsham's, Sea Bank-road ; and at Mr. R. Johnson's,
printer. Morning tickets—Front seats, 55.; back seats, 35.;
standings, 2s. Afternoon tickets—Front seats, 2s. 6d. ; back
seats, 2s. ; standings, Is. An ordinary will be provided at
the Bold Arms ; dinner at two o'clock. Tickets, 2s. W.;
wines, &c. [mark the ke. !] extra."