The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-06-07 00:00:00

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 1.

The committee resumed the inquiry at the usual hour, when
counsel recalled Joseph Grooby, the bandmaster, who repeated
his description of his engagement.
Cross-examined : Was engaged professionally, and was ready
to play "The Battle of the Boyne," or any other battle tune.
His most proficient band was the " teetotal" or " confidential"
hand No. 1. (Laughter.) They were what might be termed
" good musicians," slow, serious, and sober—but still they
played the most lively tunes. It was childish to ask him whe-
ther he had told any one these bands cost him and though
he had said he could speak on almost every topic, it was hardly
reasonable to ask him to speak upon that. The learned counsel
ought to know better than to ask him such a question. Did not
himself play either the drum or the trombone, nor on all the vio-
lins at once. The question of the learned counsel showed that lie
was no musician. (Laughter.) He sometimes played on the
violins and smaller fry of instruments—the cymbals, cornets,
and those things, and supplied music by contract. His confi-
dential band No.l was the best band he had, and the Zoological
band—(laughter)—the band that played at the Zoological Gar-
dens before the wild beasts was the next best ; and the third, a
tolerably good 'un, was the temperance or New Church band.
(Laughter.) Could not swear how many voters there were in
confidential band No. 1, but there were fifteen musicians; and
he heard that one them, William Harrison, who was a drum-
mer, and kept the Harmonic Assembly-rooms, at the bottom
of Suffolk-street, voted for Turner and Mackenzie. Could not
swear bow many of the men in the Zoological and New Church
bands voted. Some disputes took place among the other bands
in Liverpool, the men being mixed up in politics, and they re-
fused to play for witness's party, and he had to select some of
the men from Southport. Told the Music Committee that the
bands were the best military bands. They were no drum and
fife bands, such as accompanied puppet-shows, or like the
Pope's brass band in the House of Commons. (Laughter.)
They were real military brass bands,and not an instrumentation
of fife and drum, fit only for the mob, but a band that played
refined airs of music, and something that was victorious like.
(Laughter.) About twenty other bandmasters sent in estimates
to the music committee besides witness. Stubbs' and Jol-
liffe's bands were inferior ones. They employed lads where
witness employed men ; but they got the same price, £1 per
man. It was the New Church band that got alarmed and ran
away, but they became collected as soon as they got among the
more respectable people, and formed themselves into a tolera-
bly perfect pandemonium, i. e. harmonium. (Laughter.) The
other side, Cardwell and Ewart, had bands and colours.
Witness's bands were not distinguished so much by their
colours as by their superior sort of music, and he had intended
to vote before being paid, but changed his mind after. He was
introduced to the music committee as a Protectionist and a
" brick," but not as a nineteenth century Protectionist.
(Laughter).

Mr. JAM ES : Pray, then, from what century do you date your
politics ?—Witness : From the next century.

Mr. JAMES : Then you are exactly a century a bead of every-
body else? (Laughter.) Can you fix upon the date when you
made up your mind to vote for Turner and Mackenzie?—
Witness :As soon as I found it was my interest to vote for the
Protectionists. I was induced to do so by the encouragement
I met with, and (with peculiar gravity) as soon as that par-
ticular impression was formed upon my nature, then I made
up ray mind to vote. (Laughter.)

Mr. JAMES: When was this metaphysical process in your
nature effected, Mr. Grooby ?—Witness: I really do not re-
collect.

Mr. JAMES: But surely it is a change you can never have
forgotten ?—Grooby : Well, it was between my first introduction
to the music committee and the election day. My mind during
that period was gradually and imperceptibly made up upon the
matter. (Laughter.) He was (said the witness) by avocation,
a general agent, and bought and sold land and houses, coffee
and other shops, and had a small shop in the confectionary
line. Went a great deal about in the temperance coffee-houses,
being a teetotaller, and did business there. He believed Joliffe
was drunk when lie was turned out of the office. Swore posi-
tively that he was given £1 per man on condition of voting and
using his influence to procure votes for Turner and Mackenzie.
Those were the words used by Bremner and Tobin, and it was
said in a room in the hearing of thirty persons.

Re-examined : Intended to vote for Turner and Mackenzie,
if everything went as he wished—that was, if he was employed,
and everything went on to his satisfaction.
Thomas Walthew : Was a shipwright and freeman, and
voted for Mackenzie and Turner. Mr. Fisher, foreman to Mr.
B. Jones, Canvassed him shortly before the election, and said,
You know, if you give your vote for Turner and Mackenzie,
you'll get your day's pay and plenty of refreshments ;" and
witness said he would vote for them. Witness was at the
Royal Oak on the evening of the nomination day, and saw
Fisher, who .said to him, " Tom, you are acquainted with the
freemen about here, bring them all down to Hill's, at the
Sefton Arms, 30 or 40, or as many as you can." Witness went
to Hill's on the polling day, and saw many freemen there,
some 18 or 19. Saw Crosby, Underwood, and Robert Cooke
there, and Parkinson, but not the man who died the other
morning. They had refreshments there—bread and beef, and
anything to drink they liked to call for. After witness and the
others, some 18 or 20, had polled, they went back by the " bus"
to the Sefton Arms, and had more refreshments and a glass of
rum. Fisher did not go with him to vote, but remained behind
to get more men. He was attending the room and ordering
refreshments. Fisher did not mention about the ss. then, but
they all knew that it was to be paid. Leech, a freeman, and
Mr. John Jones, took witness's name down in a book after he
had polled, and told :him to come to the Sefton Arms on the
Saturday night for the money. Saw Fisher at the dockyard,
and he told him to go and get paid, and said " I am going to
Horsfall's to get the money, and I will be there at six o'clock."
Witness went to the Sefton Arms and Fisher gave him his
day's day—five shillings. He paid
_nothing for the refresh-
ments., he had.
Cross-examined by Mr. SMITH : Was working at the time
of the election for Mr. Chandler, at five shillings a day, but
worked now for different people, as a jobbing shipwright. Did
not know what made him put down the names of those he saw
at the Sefton Arms, on paper. No one told him to do it. but
he did it to jog his memory, because it was said in Liverpool
that the election was being carried by money, and that the
matter would come to a trial. The paper was a copy of a de-
claration he signed on coming up from Liverpool. They
brought him up last Wednesday, and gave him £1 and a paper.
He had had 335. since. Did not pay for his own ticket by rail,
nor did they agree to give him so much a day in London.
Robert Cooke was a freeman of Liverpool, and a seafaring
man. Was a ship-keeper, and voted at the last election for
Turner and Mackenzie. Knew Mr. Fisher, Mr. N. B. Jones's
foreman, and saw him
Noiiiththae
greatmorn itanganoyfraturid him.
heelectionHaet
had
top of Stanhope-street, v
not seen him before on the subject of voting, but Fisher then

asked him if lie would go and poi!, ana witness said he would
at eleven o'clock. Knew Fisher before to be a man connected
with the red party. Went and polled, and then proceeded to
the Royal Oak, and saw Mr. Hal Agate and Mr. Inman in a
room, with others, writing. He went to the Sefton Arms on
the Saturday following, with Parkinson, at seven or eight
o'clock, and had the ss. paid him. Parkinson had also ss.
Richard Fisher paid them • and Parkinson said to Fisher,
"This ((mining witness) is the man who polled on our side,"
and Fisher then paid him ss. _ .

Cross-examined :—His wages were ss. a day. Had always
voted red, and always would.
Richard Cooke was a shipwright, and had voted a number of
years at Liverpool. First voted forty years ago for Lennard,

and had voted at all elections since, and at the last election for
Mackenzie and Turner. Did not know who canvassed him,
but he went up on his own account to the committee-room,
where business was done at the Royal Oak, Toxteth-park,
where voters met together. There was a bill stuck up over it,
" Mackenzie and Turner's committee-room." He was there
several times, and remembered Mr. Buckley Jones speaking to
him about his vote. Saw Mr. W. Fisher there the same even-
ing, and Jones asked him who he was going to vote for, and
witness told him he was going to vote for Mackenzie and Tur-
ner. He was then in the employ of Cato and Miller. Nothing
was said by them about the ss. Mr. Jones said he should not
lose his "day's pay," and be told him to go and see Fisher,
and lie would tell him what house to come to. This was the
day before the election.
Cross examined : Always intended to vote for Turner and
Mackenzie. Did not sell his vote for 55., nor would lie for
20s. Had not the least notion he was doing this, nor had the
other men either. If any one had said to him " Come and
vote for 55.," he would have knocked them down ; 55. did not
pay for his day's work, which was then 6s. a day ; and the
men who went to vote lost their day's work, and also the work
of the day before. Witness lost 12s. and got only ss. Fisher
knew how witness was going to vote before he voted for Turner
and Mackenzie. True, he was always a warm "red," and
would not have voted for Cardwell if he had .4'5 instead of ss.
From what he had seen and read of Cardwell in the paper he
did not like him at all—(laughter)—and that feeling prevailed
in Liverpool with the other men who voted " red." They
were dissatisfied with Cardwell on the navigation laws, and
that was the principal reason they and he voted against him.
By Mr. FRESHFIELD: Told Mr. Jones how he meant to
vote before he said anything about the day's pay. Told the
other men to go to the Sefton Arms, but did not say they
would get the money. Told them to go because he thought
they would get the money as a present.
Thomas Crossley, a shipwright and freeman : Voted for
Mackenzie and Turner. Was in the Toxteth-park ward, and
went to the Sefton Arms. Was told to go there by Fisher the
day before the election, who said, " You will vote with me to-
morrow." Was working for Mr. Major at the time of the
election. Mr. Major was a shipbuilder. Fisher said nothing
about his day's pay before the election. There was no one at
work at the ships on the Wednesday. Mr. Fisher paid him 55.,
but he could not say if he paid the others the same. Witness
voted for Turner and Mackenzie, but he got the ss. for the
day's loss of work.

Cross-examined : His wages were 6s. at Major's, but he
knocked off on the election day. It was his own fault he did,not
go back to work, but he had, perhaps, taken a little too much.
Had always voted red, and intended all along to vote for Mac •
kenzie and Turner. No one had any doubt on which side he
would vote.
William Dod : Was a freeman of Liverpool, and voted for the
" Reds," Mackenzieand Turner, and had always voted " red."
Was working for Mr. Cato at the time, on hoard the Laurel,
with four other men. Evan Jones kept a beer-shop, and he
asked witness if be might put their names down. Witness re-
fused at first, but afterwards gave his consent, saying, " We
may as well give him our names, whether we
.go to his house
or not." Saw him on the morning he was going to poll. Did
not work that day, or the day before, or after. Went to the
Oak on the Saturday following, and received Is. 6d. out of the
55., having a little drop of ber there, amounting to 3a. 6d.,
and it was deducted, and he squared things. Evan Jones's
wife gave him the change.
By Mr. SMITH : Always voted red, but voted once for Mr.
Ewart. It was not the day's pay made him go and vote, as he
would not sell his vote for five times ss.
Joseph Underwood : Was a freeman and shipwright of Liver-
pool, in the Canning graving dock. Evan Jonestpoke to him
about his vote, and asked him if he was engaged to go to any
house to vote. Jones told him if he would go to his house and
poll from there he would give him his day's pay. Witness
went accordingly and voted. On the Saturday he went for his
pay, and Evan Jones gaves him the ss. himself.

Cross-examined : Went to Jones's house to oblige him. Had
always voted " Red," and had made up his mind to vote for
Turner and Mackenzie. This going to Evan Jones's had not
a bit to do with his vote.

Robert Cooke : a freeman and carpenter of Liverpool. Had
voted at two general elections before the last. Was in Toxteth
ward, and was in J. Maclane's employment, working on the
ship British Queen. Evan Jones said if he would go to his
house he would receive a day's wages, ss. He told him be was
to poll from there, and he understood he was to have the day's
%ages, 55., for the loss of his time. Had made up his mind to
vote for Turner and Mackenzie, and if they had put £7,000 or
500 guineas in his hands he would not have polled for the other
party. (Laughter.) Jones did not say anything about whom
he was going to vote for, as witness had told him. Went again
to Evan Jones's in the evening by his own inclination, and to
the Oak on the Saturday to get the money, but did not know
whether he got the ss. or not, because he was tipsy. Thought
he got the ss. but could not say for certain, but found 15d. in
his pocket on the Sunday. Did not know if it was in his
pocket when he went to Evan Jones's. Could not say if he re-
ceived the 55., for he was so tipsy that he could not swear it.
Managed to get home that night; but could not tell who paid
him or whom he saw.

William Harris, freeman and shipwright : Voted for Turner
and Mackenzie, and went to poll from Evan Jones's, and was
working at Mackey and Miller's. Jones was a fellow-workman,
and asked him if he would vote from his house, as he would be
paid for his election day, and might as well vote from his house
as any other. That was the first he heard about being paid.
It was on the Monday he told him this. At a quarter-past nine
o'clock on the polling day he went to Evan Jones's, but could
not say if Jones told him when lie would have the money. He
got some money from Jones a week after, on a Sunday morn-
ing. Did not see any one else receive the same money. Jones
gave him ss. He did not ask him to vote, but only to come to
his house.

Cross-examined: Always voted for the " Red " party, but
at the last election but one voted for Manners and Cardwell.
Would not have gone to Jones's if he had not asked him. It
was to oblige him as a fellow-workman, and the ss. had nothing
to do with his vote.

Charles Burroughs : Did not vote at the last election, though
on the register. Was foreman to Cato and Miller's, shipbuilders.
Was paid by weekly wages, but some he received quarterly.
Did not receive any money at the Old Oak at the last election.
Knew Egan Jones, who kept it. Did not see any people being
paid money. No one ever called upon him on the subject of
his vote. Had voted at former elections, but there was no
particular reason why he did not vote at the last. He had a
vote, but they did not want it. Was asked for his vote, but
did not give it. They had plenty of votes without bothering
him.

Cross-examined His only reason for not voting was because
he thought it was not required. Left Jones's at twelve o'clock
on the polling day, and by that time Turner and Mackenzie
were a-head by a large majority.
By Mr. BALT.: Jones came and put the Cs. in my hand, and
said " good night," and witness did not ask him why he gave
it him.

By Mr. FRESH FIELD Understood it was a kind of intro-
duction his going to Jones's house, which was just opened, and
a favour on his part to cut up the beef. Witness received is.
a day, and .el 6 a quarter, at Cato and Miller's.
The committee here adjourned.