The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-10-28 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL STANDA.n6

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDING:

The Council met by adjournment again on Wednesday at 12
o'clock, for the consideration of the bye-laws.
The TOWN CLERK begged to refer the. Council to the class
No. 4, of the general bye-laws. Upon the, bye-laws relating to
tail-boards on carts being fastened to prevent their rattling.
there were two points raised. The first was with regard to brew-
ers' carts. The Council thought that that could not be obviated,
that it was an inconvenience which must be endured, and that
the substitution of ropes would. not be of much service to the
public, and would inconvenience the brewers.
Mr. Councillor EA RIB spoke from experience, that there was
nothing frightened horses so much as brewers' drays. Any-
thing beyond a common post-horse took fright at them.
The MAYOR said, perhaps Mr. Harvey, or Mr. Lawrence
would invent something to obviate this.
The TOWN-CLERK said, the other reference was with regard
to carrying poles in carts. The Council were of opinion that
previous bye law obviated this, in which was the clause, "or
by negligence or misbehaviour obstruct any person." Carrying
a ladder or pole in such a way would obstruct persons.
Mr. Councillor Joenar4 said, he had seen many instances of
such annoying obstructions. He had the day before seen the
parapet cleared by a clod-hopper with a ladder.
Mr. Councillor EARLE.—You should have laid an informa-
tion.
The MAYOR.—" That is what is wanted."
Mr. Councillor Joe DAN.—" The police ought to do that."
Mr. Councillor BIRCH.—" Allow me to ask if Mr. Jordan is
not on the watch committee."
Mr. Councillor JORDAN.—" I am."
Mr. Councillor BIRCH.—" Then you had better bring it be-
fore the watch committee to instruct the police than bring it be-
fore the council."
The TOWN-CLERK said the nuisance created by the manufac-
ture of chickory would be introduced into a bye-law, and with
that exception the general bye-laws were in a condition to be
printed for the use of the council.
• , HACKNEY COACHES.
Mr. Councillor JORDAN would present a petition from the
hackney coach proprietors.
The MAYOR said it had better be read at the proper time.
The TowN-CLERK said, with -respect to hackney coaches it
had been suggested that the penalties for not ddllvering up li-
cences were too heavy. It had been thought, on reconsidera-
tion by the committee, that they were, and a reduction had been
made. There was another suggestion, that hackney coaches
should be provided with change in copper. He thought they
had no power to order that. According to law a man who had
to pay a debt ought to be provided with proper coin in which to
pas that debt. (Hear.)
The TOWN-CLERK then read the petition from the hackney
coach proprietors, which set forth that the price of hay and corn
was very high, and entreating the council not to reduce the
fares owing to the high rates of provender. The petition was
signed by seven or eight proprietors of coaches.
The TOWN-CLERK said that no reduction had been made.
Mr. Councillor HOPE rose for the purpose of saying an er-
roneous impression existed amongst proprietors of cars, &c.,
that they intended to reduce the fares. No such proposition
had been made. In his opinion the fares were too low, and he
would take the liberty of proposing to alter the terms and make
the fare is. for a car for a. short distance, which was now
charged Bd.
Mr. Councillor EARLE hoped no such reduction would be
made, some of the hackney coach proprietors were growing rich
on the present fares.
The Maroe thought they had settled this question before;
he thought they should not alter the charge every year if there
happened to be a heavy or light winter in the price of pro-
vender.
Mr. Councillor BOLTON thought if they ensured only the le-
gal fare when sometimes Is. 6d. had been paid for is., it was in
effect reducing the fares.
Mr. Alderman ROBINSON said those who had been in the ha-
bit of giving more than the fare were at liberty to do so still,
and most likely would do so.
Mr. Councillor Biecit thought the subject had been very
'Lilly discussed, and that there was no necessity to again enter

into it.
Mr. Councillor LASSELL said that the Bd. fares of coaches
were hardly ever paid. He had heard one coach proprietor
(Mr. Garner) say that he had never received an Bd. fare; he
had always Is. given to him.
Mr. Councillor HOPE would press his motion.
The TOWN-CLERK said the prayer of the petition was against
any reduction, not for an increase.
Mr. Councillor RATHBONE thought they were acting on a
wrong principle; they ought not to make laws which were in-
operative ; if the feeling of the public was to pay Is. why ought
they not to make it law.
Mr. Councillor EARLE thought Bd, was quite enough for one
thousand yards.
Mr. Alderman BeowN said that there were persons, to whom
the 4d. was an object, and who only paid the legal fare.
The TOWN-CLERK said the law was to favour those who could
not pay more.
Mr. Councillor HOPE would propose that the lowest charges
for both cars and coaches be struck Out. That there should be
no less charge than for seventeen hundred yards.
Mr. Councillor LASSELL said that Mr. Garner bad told him
that he often took Is. fares for coaches. The distinction in that
point might be made.
Mr. Councillor RUSHTON would second Mr Hope's proposi-

Lion.
Mr. Councillor BOLTON would support this proposition, as he
thought it only reasonable.
Mr. Councillor JORDAN thought it would be making hun-
dreds and thousands of the poor pay what they could not afford.
Mr. Councillor AIKIN supported the Mayor's view.
The MAYOR thought the present proceedings irregular.
Mr. Councillor HOPE would withdraw his amendment if
against the will of the council.
Mr. Councillor MAXWELL, to put an end to the discussion,
moved that the order of the day be proceeded with.
The TOWN-CLERK said the next point was to make the charge
of coaches the same from places of worship as from places of
public amusement—that the charge should only be from the
place of worship. The committee thought that a place of pub-
lic amusement was a coach stand, and a place of worship was
not, and the committee thought the law had better stand as it
was. , . .
After some discussion this was agreed to.
Mr. Alderman' JONES would ask how the present distances
were computed, if it would not be bettor to charge distances by
circles.
Mr. Alderman BROWN said that plan had been thought of,
but was found so complicated that it.had been abandoned. lie
thought that when a plan, which was now under consideration,
of dividing the town into squares of 100 yards, to be attached as
a schedule to the fares, came into general use, it would be found
to answer. The magistrates' clerks were now about that.
The MINN-CLERK said there had been a suggestion that the
horses of hackney-coaches should be in good condition. This
had better be inserted in the bye-law which provided coaches
should be in good conditiont—" that the coach, &c., in all other
respects should be fully competent to execute fares when re-
quired."—Agreed to.
There was another suggestion, that persons hiring a coach and
refusing to pay the proper fares, that some penalty should be
enforced in such cases, and remuneration given to drivers for
loss of time in attending to enforce their charge before the ma-
gistrates. On looking over the act which related
.to this he
found that there was no such power to inflict penalties on the
parties, nor to award compensation to the drivers. But there
was a provision which gave power to the owners of coaches to-
recover their fares snmmardy before any justice, along with
costs. He would not be obliged, as ordinary parties were, to
sue for the _debt.
Mr. Alderman FRaME thought that under the power of this
act a bye-law might be made.
The MAYOR.—" Excuse me, the Town-clerk, our legal au-
thority, has considered the case, and says not."
Mr. Alderman FRaME said he thought in some cases it would
be a very hard case on the drivers.
Mr. Councillor I'. SMITH enquired if a coach or a horse were
to break down by the way would the parties taking it be obliged
to pay the fare.
The TOWN-CLERK said that in that case the car-driver would
no
nottha demandvecomplet his
edhisfacroei.itract which he had undertaken, he
could
The TOWN-CLERK said he had now got through the fares of
of hackney-coaches, and this class of bye-laws might now be
printed.

CARTS.
The TOWN-CLERK said in the bye-law ordering that where an
owner employing any driver or conductor for a cart who should
have been deprived of his license, it was proposed to make three
penalties of 2W., 405., and 1;5, instead of 40s. and £s.—Agreed
to. The next bye-law, were a person refused to give up his
li-
cense on demand, the fines to be fixed at 10s., 205., and 40s.—
AFreed to.
The TOWN-CLERK said he was proceeding to a class of bye-
laws relating to carts which had not been considered :—" That
if any driver shall allow his lorry to stand in a street, not fixed
as a public stand, such driver shall forfeit ss. for theed first offence,
10s. for the second, and 20s. for the third.—Agre to.
"That every driver and conductor of every lorry shall con-
stantly assist in loading and unloading the same when he can
be spared from his horses without any remunerad ton for the
same. The penalties 55., 10s., and 205.-"—Agree.
The bye-law regulating the stands, and the mode in which
the carts should be placed was agreed to. A bye-law that car-
ters should be as expeditious as possible in carrying a fare, and
that a driver should not be obliged to retr:tie. longer than 15
minutes for his load, and for which detention he should charge
Is. if lie went away without a load, or charge it in addition to
his fare was then read.
Mr. Alderman FREME said these detentions were cases of ne-
cessity, and that the carter ought to be remunerated at the same
rate as if he was working; but not more.
The TOWN-CLERK thought the disappointment ought to be
taken into account.
Mr. Alderman BROWN said carts were constantly detained at
the Customhouse, and at the bonded warehouse, and Is. for the
first quarter of an hour, and 6d. afterwards might be charged.
M. Councillor BOLTON said he found there was a provision
to charge I s. 6d. per hour in another bye-law.
The TOWN.CLERK.—Suppose there be a provision that the
carter be allowed to charge by time at his option.
Mr. Alderman FREME would place carters on the same rate
as coaches. If they detained a coach they paid at the rate of
6d. for every quarter of an hour's detention. That the pay-
ment should be of the nature of a remuneration, and not as a
penalty.
Mr. Councillor MORECROFT said it was the custom for .mer-
chants to hire half-a-dozen carts at once, and the first that came
on turn was loaded. It would be a heavy charge on the mer-
chants if those carts which had to wait were entitled to charge
for that. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor BIRCH moved that the law be passed, which
was seconded and agreed to • the law remaining as it stood.
"'That no person under the age of 18 be permitted to take
charge of the steerer of a timhe:-carriage under a penalty of ss.
for the first offence, and 10s. and 20s. for the second and third
offences."
Mr. Councillor RATHBONE thought the person should not be
under the age of 21. Those carts required an able-bodied man
to take charge of them.
The bye-law, after some discussion, was agreed to as it stood.
"That any driver who should refuse to have his carriage in-
spected by a police-officer, &c., in order that the quantity of
packages might be examined, should incur a penalty of ss. for
the first offence, 10s. for the second, and 20s. for the third."—
Agreed to.
`'That if the driver of any lorry shall refuse when called, and
not engaged, to take any load, he shall incur a flue of 55., 10s.,
and 20s."—Agreed to.
The Tow is-cLkitit said there was a bye-law for tnsuring the
numbering of carts the same as coaches, which would be intro-
duced, and then the bye-laws as to carts might be reprinted.
Mr. Councillor 13i.sck huuN inquired if the penalty on the
person steering a carriage being under age were to be 'fixed on
the lad or the owner.
The TOWN-CLERK said the bye-law would be worded so as to
Make the owner amenable.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN inquired if the owners could be
made responsible for the conduct of their servants.
The TOWN-CLERK said there was a legal difficulty in that
question; but they haJ been lately making hve-laws for licens-
ing the drivers, and making the owners produce their drivers
when required, which would as far as possible ensure iffc good
- eondnct of the drivers.
Mr. C 0110611- (fiat t")14.)1Ni; 41014 kMitt

that any driver ceasing to act as such 'should not deliver up kis
license should incur a.penalty ; it Was his opinion that it would
be inoperative.
The 111 A YOR said it was to prevent persons ceasing to act as
carters, transferring their licenses, or selling them.
STEAM-BoATS.

The TOWN-CLERk said there wat a reference about steam-
bo4ts as to consuming their smcke. The committee had con-
sumed some time on -the subject, and were only enabled to state
that they had no authority to interfere in that respect.
Mr. Councillor liop.E.—" Their endeavours have ended in
smoke." (A laugh )
The TOWN-CLERK had only now to state, that it appeared to
the committee with reference to lights in warehouses, that the
regulations should be confined to warehouses let out, and kept
by warehouse-keepers, or private warehouses let out in a similar
manner, but not to extend to .private warehouses used as such.
Mr. Councillor 'l'. Hour thought all warehouses, without ex-
ception, used for the storing of goods ought to be liable to it.
And that counting-houses only should be excepted.,
After some further discussion it was arranged that the Town-
clerk should form a bye-law on this subject, to be submitted at
the next meeting.
Mr. Alderman BROWN then, moved an adjournment to Sa-
turday morning at eleven o'clock, when the bye-laws are to be
passed.