The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-06-05 00:00:00

THE DOCK BILL

The proceedings of the Finance and Dock Committees, as
to the proceedings with respect to the Dock Bill, and the
Harrin,,ton and Herculaneum Dock Bills, were first read
over by the deputy town-clerk. In the proceedings of both
committees there was a copy of the following seven propo-
sals
promoters of this bill desire to inform the chairman
of the committee, Lord Sandon, simply the result and par-
ticulars of the communications between the parties during
the adjournment. The promoters are further desirous of in-
for9iing his lordship, that, on mature consideration of the
pr►nciples and objects of opposition, they _propose to recom-
mend to the dock trustees and to-the town-council the follow-
ing inodifications of the bill :-
1.--Constitution of the Trust.—The trust to be composed
of twelve members of the town-council, 'selected by the
council, and twelve members elected by the dock rate-payers;
the 24 by ballot to choose a chairman (with a casting vote)
from among themselves, or ten and ten. The veto to remain
in the town-council. _

2.—The dock trustees to build and have the management
of the proposed new warehouses.
3.—The private warehouse-owners to be secured by suffi-
cient schedule clauses in the bill for bona fide renting of
goods in the dock warehouses.
4.—That the Mersey river, from the Black Rock to War-
rington and Frodsham Bridges, shall be relieved from the
Liverpool dock charges ; as to Runcorn, and to such ports or
places as shall from time to time be declared legal ports of
discharge by her majesty's president of the board of trade
and the commissioners of customs, the bill, however, insur-
ing to the dock trustees such modified rates as is equitably
chargeable for the conservancy, lights, buoyage, telegraphs,
life-boat establishment, and common cost of the river; and
for the contingent use of the Liverpool docks, in stress of
weather or other occasions; full rates in case of actual use.
5.—A1l parochial-rate questions (after argument) to be de-
termined by the committee.
6.—The question of the opening the exclusive rights of the
dock trustees, involved in the passing or rejection of the
Harrington and Herculaneum bills, to be determined by the
committee ; the interest of the bond-creditors to be consi-
dered and secured as parliament may determine.
7.—The price of the land for the proposed new docks to
remain as agreed by the dock trustees and town-council, and
as provided for in the bill.
On mature consideration of all the important local ques-
tions and principles involved in the bill and the opposition,
the promoters feel that the above concessions are bona tide
the utmost they can recommend to those they represimt in.
Liverpool ; to the full as far as will be entertained by the
dock trustees and town-council, and the utmost that can he
conceded with a just consideration of the interests of the port
and town. _ .

I f the above proposed modifications of the bill do not satisfy
the opponents, it only remains with the promoters to with-
draw the bill (should'the committee support further conces-
sions), and to give such opposition as in their power to the
other dock bills referred to the committee.

These proposals had received the sanction of the Dock
Committee at a special meeting held the preceding day, and
were by them recommended to the council for adoption ; and
they had also undergone discussion in the Finance Commit-
tee, but that body contented themselves with resolving that
the proposals should be laid before the council for further
discussion.

A letter dated June 2, from Mr. John North, solicitor to
the warehouse owners and to some of the associated bodies
opposing the bill, was also read, stating that the committee
had met to consider the proposals, but that, as they had been
made without authority to bind the poposers of the bill, it
would serve no useful purpose to take them into considera-
tion until the town-council had decided on them.

Mr. ISAAC HOLMES complained that the proposals,
which were of the utmost importance to the whole of the town
of Liverpool, and a copy of which was in the hands of the
members of the Dock Committee, had not been placed in the
hands of every member of the council. He also thought
that time ought to be given for the consideration of matters
of such vital importance.
The MAY 011. interrupted Mr. Holmes to state, that he
(Mr. H.) knight, if he had chosen, have availed himself of his
privilege and have seen the proposals, by calling at the Town-
hall, as some other members had done, in accordance with
what was stated in the council summons. His worship then
called upon Mr. Evans, as one who was in possession of the
whole details of the measure, to give the council the neces-
sary information. . .

Mr. Alderman EVANS rose and said, in the first place, that
the best answer to the observation of Mr. Holmes, was,
that in the newspapers, at that moment, the whole of the pro-
posals were given at length, and surely Mr. H. had the same
access to them as other persons.
Mr. HODGSON—In what paper pray ?
Mr. EVANS—In the Courier of this morning.
Mr. HoncsoN-011
Mr. EVANS then proceeded to say that he conceived it
necessary to resist in Coto every application for delay. Every-
body, it was said, knew their own business best, and there
were motives in asking for this delay which it was not exactly
expedient to explain. There had already been quite sufficient
delay, and there had been no good ground offered for the
granting of any further delay. He hoped that the nature of
the decision which would be come to by the council that day
would in London produce a very prompt effect ; and in all
likelihood, in half the time the subject was decided here,
itwould be decided there. There was no good reason,
and no necessity, to prolong this kind of mental agony,
either for the committee in London or for parties here.
Therefore with regard to Mr. North's application, lie de-
cidedly objected to granting the prayer of it. He knew not
whether he was now competent to go on with any notice of
the dock proceedings, or whether or not the Finance Com-
mittee should take precedence of him. Would the Mayor
have the goodness to decide ? •
The MAYOR said that the Finance Committee ought cer-
tainly to take the precedence, hut the council would probably
like to hear Mr. Evans's statement first.

Mr. BOLTON suggested that as the Dock Committee had
expressed an opinion, and the Finance Committee had not,
there was a peculiar propriety in the Dock Committee taking
the precedence.
Mr. EVANS proceeded. He said that the proceedings of
the Dock Committee involved matters of greater interest to
the locality than ever was supposed to belong to any measure
which had hitherto been discussed within those walls. He
was confident that the council would be as patient and in-
dulgent as the great importance of those subjects demanded ;
but, notwithstanding, he . should endeavour to be as concise
as possible in all he had to say on the subject. The council
was quite sufficiently informed of the merits and origin of the
• .. .

bill now before parliament; he should therefore not attempt
tolTeumber the debate with the details of its progress before
it was' bid before the parliamentary'committee in London.
That committee, as it happened, was called the Lancashire
committee ; and comprised in its members many men most
conspicuous in this country for their wealth, their rank, their
talent, and their business habits. Still there were not many
`of that committee so conversant with Liverpool, or with the
,details of trade, as to be able, as readily as gentlemen here
Would be, to comprehend all the merits the case, either what
had been urged in favour, or what had been urged against,
the bill. Notwithstanding that deficiency, and the disadvan-
tage of hearing disjointed evidence, without the summing up
of their able counsel, who did it in a luminous manner, he
I believed, he was warranted in saying that they had arrived
mentally at an approval of all the leading objects of the bill.
There were some objections which, without having been spe-
cially made, they had discovered to exist in the breasts of some
few of the members of the committee, which those proposals
were intended either to meet or to remove. The leading points
of objection were the continued infliction upon all parts of the
estuary of the Mersey of the Liverpool dock-rates. There-
fore, one of the leading desiderata of the members of the par-
liamentary committee was to procure exemption for Runcorn
and other places. He would not enter into any investigation
of the merits or justice of that exemption ; it was quite
suffi-
cient to say that they had ascertained that the question must
not only be entertained, but that the desire must be acceded
to. Upon a review, however, of all the consequences attend-
ing that, the deputation were perfectly satisfied that they were
giving what they could not retain ; what must of necessity be
taken from us, whenever we went to parliament for any pub-
lic improvement whatever; and, moreover, that there was an
assurance that in the future extension of the commerce of the
port there would be an ample provision for the loss that might
take place from whatever private individuals were likely to
add to the present dock means. The other leading desire in
- the committee was, to make an alteration in the constitution

of the Dock Committee. They found there were noble lords
and others possessed with most erroneous ideas on this sub-
ject, and most particularly apprehensive that the docks should
give to the municipal government of Liverpool a great
political influence. To a man living at a distance, and
judging by generalities, it was not very easy to disprove

that by assertions. It was very well known here, how-
ever, that the political influence derived out of the docks was
absolutely nothing. But if that influence existed at all in
practice, it could certainly never be exercised collectively by
the council or the Dock Committee ; and if it existed, like all
other influence, it was in the hands of active and influential
individuals. Hut if improvement was to be stopped by all these
little considerations, he did not know how they could ever
accomplish anything ; and if, on the other hand, the influence
of the council was to be apprehended, would there not be as
much reason, if the constitution of the Dock Committee were
amended as some proposed, to fear that of the rate-payers ?
Upon the very few occasions where party marshalled itself,
there was in most cases a majority on one or the other side;
and he could not conceive why it should be desirable to hand
the influence over to a body much less responsible than the
council, and more likely to abuse it than those who were lia-
ble once every month to be brought formally to account before
their constituents. I t had been observed, that this question was
one which was reserved, at the passing of the Municipal Re-
form Act, for future legislation ; and what was contemplated
by that ? Why, not so much as they were now doing. More
was never contemplated by Mr. Ifuskisson, or by those then
acting in the business, than mere equality—not even that, for
on all former occasions it was contemplated that the coun-
cil would have a casting vote in the chairman, whom it had
aright to appoint. Therefore the argument, that the queS-
tion was open as a reserved point, was more than met ; they
had more than met the views of those persons, which never
exceeded an equality of numbers, with the chairman in
addition appointed by the council. He was perfectly aware
that legislation was not for feeling, but for interest ; but he
did maintain,.that where a party feeling,was intimately con-
nected with public interest, it ought to have its weight. For
that council, in. its character of trustees, to acquiesce in
predominance to the rate-payers, was to do nothing
uprepared.ed the to
ascendancy contend
lgeisysintgbla'n acknowledge past misgovernment—acknowledge
inferiority on their part to the Dock Committee, and at once
to concede all those high qualifications to the rate-payers.
that as the good of the communityes'lie wasreq
alone to be found in
of fixed principles, whichw,
Now, under these circumstanc
their trust, and positively sub-
government, he was warrantedas in adding that the municipalcouncil
could could not, without betraying
proposals whatever that
minority in the Dock Committee.
would place that body in a
sub-
mitting to invasion, listen to any
to give up, and those ho
be-
tween those who were called on
be refused an attempted
There was a wide difference, on occasions of this kind,
cannot be compelled to
acquisition without disgrace; but y
were attempting to acquire. You maay
Now, to call on the trustees
without degrading yourselves.•
docks to a body
give up anything, where no case is o made out to warrant it,
to hand over the virtual command of the
whose very efforts to get it might
be deemed an indicationtheir future intention of opposing that council, would be, he
conceived, a perfect act of suicide. In arriving ataperfect
of
equality, he did conceive that they were putting a good d
bill,
.to hazard ; but he expected that they should get, the
more than an equivalent for that. Besides, the principle
of
equality might be deemed a consent and agreement, not
dissent or degradation. They must be naturally led to
institute a comparison between the council and what were
called the rate-payers. There were noble lords and others
who were abused with clap-trap words about political assem-
blies and mercantile bodies, and the necessity of a division
between them. Now, that council was, and ever must be,
a great mercantile body. Liverpool never could have a
metropolitan character ; it would always be dependent upon
commerce ; and therefore that body must be an assembly,
with moderate exceptions, of merchants and rate-payers.
Therefore they (the council) contained within themselves all
the mercantile knowledge, all the interests of the rate-
payers, with the responsibility superadded of being the repre-
sentatives of the community at large. There had been much
observation about the rights of the rate-payers. There
they had no more earthly rights than the
n the roads or canals. The only manlier
pcoenupldieb:laenoo
trriagvhetls
o;
in which they could be spoken of was, whether they were
not the best machinery that could be employed—whether it
was not expedient to use them ? He himself was a rate-
payer; but did he pay the dues out of his own pocket ? No;