The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-06-30 00:00:00

NEW POOE-LAW.

In answer to a question from Mr. T. DUNCOMBE, whether
it was intended to proceed beyond the present session with
the poor-law amendment act,
Lord J. RUSSELL said, he had before stated, that if he
found it was not probable that there would be time to dis-
cuss a bill of so much importance as the poor-law amend-
ment bill, he would merely propose a bill to continue the
poor law commission for a certain period. As there was not
time for the discussion of so important a measure, he would
propose to bring in a bill for the continuance of the poor-
law commission till the end of the next year.
In answer to a question from Mr. Go utstrnN,

•
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the esti-
mates for the war with China would be included in the navy
estimates.

SUGAR DUTIES.

The house having gone into committee on the sugar duties
bill, Mr. EIVART moved, as an amendment to the first
clause, the reduction of the duties on sugar and coffee. He
said the situation of the poor and labouring classes ought to
be the first consideration with the members of that house.
The foreign artisan paid 44d a pound for his sugar, while the
English workman for the same article paid twice that sum.
So scarce had sugar become in the households of the poor,
that most of them were driven to the use of treacle. The
grocers, who were in the habit of selling to the poorer classes,
had begun to cease to sell. In 1832 the import of sugar was,
in round numbers, 220,000 tons, while, at the close of last
year, after an interval of seven years, with all the increase
of the population, the import had fallen to 193,000 tons.
That decrease was not temporary, but had been gradual and
steady. The returns laid upon the table of that house
showed that the import of West India sugar had decreased
40,000 tons on an average of ten years from 1830 to 1839.
In the present year the diminution appeared to be in a larger
proportion. He believed that he was justified in saying, that
already the import into London was less than at this time
last year by the extraordinary amount of 12,000 tons. It
might be supposed that they had a stock in hand to meet the
deficiences. So far from that, the amount was extremely
low. The weekly delivery of West India sugar in May
last amounted to about 1540 tons. Now what had they to
meet that? The stock at that time amounted to no more
than 3870 tons— a stock only sufficient for a few weeks.
Extending their view from the West Indian to the entire
weekly delivery of West India, Mauritius, and Bengal
sugars, it amounted to 2180 tons ; and to meet that, the stock
was only 8300 tons, so that all the sugar available would only
last them a single month. The price of British sugar in
bond was 22s per cwt. and it therefore appeared that the
British paid 123 per cent. more for colonial sugar than might
be paid for foreign sugar. He concluded by moving, that
the duties on foreign sugar be reduced from G3s to 34s per
cwt.
_ _

Mr. THORNELY seconded the motion, and observed, that
in the case of the trsift laws, they had at least the advantage
of the sliding scale; whilst, however inadequate the supply
of sugar from the colonies might be, the same advantage was
not extended to that produce.
Mr. LABOUCHERE was not at all disposed to deny, that
there was at present existing a state of things with regard to
the sugar trade, which could not be looked to without appre-
hension. Our colonies, till lately, not only supplied the mar-
kets of this country, but produced a large surplus for expor-
tation; but therhad fallen off to such a degree, as to render
them incapable of of supplyiug the wants of the British mer-
chant. The consequence was, that the distress in the sugar
trade was great, and the injury inflicted on the consumer
very considerable. The right hon. gentleman proceeded to
show that the question was not merely of a financial nature,
for in that case there would be no difficulty. He instanced
the treaties with Brazil, and various sugar-producing states
of South America; and with respect to free labour compet-
ing with slave labour, he said ultimately that might be the
case. He (Mr. Labouchere) hoped it might; but consider.
ing that they were now legislating only for a single year, he
thought no man could say that the effect of his honourable
friend's resolution, if carried, would be to let in any great
quantity of foreign sugar from those distant countries where
the labour was free. No one, he thought, could entertain a
doubt, that within the limited period to which this measure
would extend, the great mass of the foreign sugar imported
into this country would be from the Brazils—a country which
was comparatively near to us, and with which we carried on
a large and valuable trade. In the Brazils, no sugar was
produced except by slave labour. He confessed that it would
be a very painful duty to oppose this motion ; but the ques-
tion he had to ask himself was this,—whether he would this
year consent to give such a stimulus to slave labour in the
Brazils, and other countries where slaves were employed, as
would be produced by throwing open the market of this
country to the reception of their sugar. He owned he was
not able to make up his mind that that was a course that he
ought to recommend to the house. The right honourable
gentleman proceeded to analyse the accounts respecting the
supplies of sugar. The diminution was confined to the West
Indies, for the quantity imported from the East Indies and
the Mauritius had considerably increased.
Mr. HUME and Mr. HAwEs supported the motion.

Dr. LUSHINGTON saw no reason to fear for the future in-
crease of the sugar crops. He would show, that the reduc-
tion had arisen from different causes, wherever sugar was
grown,—causes beyond the power of man to control. That
difference was 961,128 cwt. ; but it had arisen from no defi-
ciency of labour. To use the words of Governor Light,
" Under the most coercive system of labour, that difference
must have existed." He proceeded to show, that the fall-
ing-off in the sugar last year was owing to accidental causes.
He concluded with declaring that he was himself in favour
of the principle of reduction of duties, but never at the sa-
crifice of another principle' dearer to the hearts of men than
any that could be conceived.—(Cheers.) He remembered,
when the slave trade was proposed to be given up, and when
it was urged by the opponents of that measure that the trade
was a nursery for British seamen, and that it produced mil-
lions of pounds of capital to this country, and tended to aug-
ment its national resources, the father of the noble lord op-
posite used this expression—" I dare not weigh gold against
blood." (Cheers.) Such was the expression used by the
Earl of Harrowby on that occesion.—(Cheers.) He en-
treated the Government to persevere in their present line of
conduct until a departure from it should become absolutely
necessary. And certain he was, from his long experience of
their feelings on this point, if a fair appeal were made to the
people of this country, that the great majority of them would
neaseA whichan sure was
to
deprecate nothing on earth so much as the adoption of a
u
certain
aggravate t o tendthe m
to the
et
ye
of
perpetuation.— f
slavery,(CTers,)

Mr. A. CHAPMAN did not believe, that any measure
which involved the breach of treaties and the perpetuation
of slavery could be advantageous to the shipping interest.
Mr. O'CONNELL never
ve
vote a vote with a greater convic-
tion of its propriety than themhe should give against the
motion of the hon. member for Wigan. The people of Eng-
land had already made their choice. itelie meetingwould warrant that
there was no man who would call a
public
peti-
tion upon this subject. (Cheers.) It was the
to
e r d
government, day and night, to make the expieirnuetivit of the
com-
plete ; and' the planters on their side ought to aid the
govern-
ment.
Mr. C. P. VILLIERS supported the motion, and Mr. w.
GLADSTONE opposed it.
Mr. EWART replied ; and, on a division, the motion was
lost by 122 to 27.
COUNTY CONSTABULARY BILL.
The house afterwards went into committee on this bill;
several clauses were agreed to, and a number of new clauses
were added to the bill, on the motion of Mr. Fox MAULE,
on the understanding that they were to be considered on
bringing up the report.
The house then resumed, and the report was received ;
and the bill was ordered to be reprinted, and to be reconsi-
dered on Thursday next.
-

RAILWAYS DILL.
On the motion of Lord SEYMOUR, the house resolved it-
self into committee on this bill. Some new clauses were
added.—To be reported on Monday.

FRIVOLOUS SUITS BILL.

This bill was read a third time and^passed.
In answer to a question from Mr. DARBY,
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that this bill was intended
to apply to actions for slander.
On the report of the Glass Duties Bill, the CHANCELLOR
of the EXCHEQUER said that it would come into operation
on the 15th instead of the Ist August.
The remaining business being disposed of, the house ad-
journed.

HOUSE OF LORDS.—FILIDAY.
The election of Lord Lucan as an Irish representative
peer in the room of the late Lord Enniskillen was officially
announced.

The Marquis of WEsTmEATIfi in reference to a conversa-
tion which had taken place on the preceding evening, gave
notice that he should move for a return of the parties to
whom the sum of £5O paid by a parish priest, named
O'Reilly, had been given to precure the compromise of a
prosecution. He thought that the conduct of government in
the transaction had been such as to render them guilty of an
indictable offence.
The Duke of RICHMOND, in moving the second reading
of the settled estates drainage bill, observed that its operation
would be extremely beneficial, by enabling persons to borrow
money on their estates for the purposes of draining, and
which would be payable at distant periods. After a few

~:`

*1

words from several of their lordship's, the bill was read a
second time, and ordered to be committed on the 6th of July
Several other bills were advanced a stage, and the house
then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-FRIDAY.

The Clerkenwell imprisonment bill was read a third me
and passed.
The report of the Weaver churches bill was after a division
brought up, but the debate was adjourned till Monday.

IRISH REGISTRATION HILL.-ANOTHER DEFEAT OF

MINISTERS.

. Next came Lord Stanley's Irish Registration Bill, when
on the motion that the Speaker should leave the chair in or-
der to the e ommittal,
Mr. SLAM:Y. in a mediatorial tone, urged the propriety
of first defining the franchise, and pressed on members on
both sides the expediency of reconciling their differences and
making mutual concessions for the benefit of Ireland, whose
people being miserable at home, were now crowding into the
great towns of this cuuntry and lowering the wages of labour
there.

Mr. O'CONNELL said, that after Mr. Slaney's observa-
tions, which he hoped would be attended to by the house, he
would not persist in an intention which he had entertained
of opposing himself to the arrangement made between Lord
J. Russell and Lord Stanley. Certainly, it was not reason-
able to discuss the mode of registration till there had been
some definition of the thing to be registered. There was
now pending a bill for defining it ; why not proceed with that,
and let this bill stand over till next session? The Irish con-
stituencies were not of the overbearing magnitude which they
would have exhibited if there had been the alleged amount
of fictitious votes ; so that really the subject did not press.
However, he would reserve till some further debate his op-
portunity of moving an instruction for the definition of the
franchise.

The house then went into committee. On the third clause,
requiring, except in certain cases, twelve months' possession
prior to registration, some conservation arose as to the prin-
cipal of annual as compared with quarterly registration, and
Lord STANLEY said he considered annual registration to be
so essential a principal of his bill, that if a quarterly or any
other period were submitted, he should conduct the measure
no further.

Mr. 0 CONNEI.L argued against the length of possession
which this bill required previous to registration
Lord STAN LEY maintained that the effect of this bill was
to diminish rather than increase the length of possession
required by the existing law, and to give to the Irish voter
an advantage in comparison with the English.
',l;6lFmil.L.sonteaded, that a man entering in
mencement of tenancy, would by this bill be prevented
voting till the October twelvemonth. That the English
claimant might be under still greater hardship, was no conso-
lation to the Irish. _ _ _

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL denied the law in England to
be as Lord Stanley supposed it.
Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN and Mr. 11. RATTAN concurred
with Mr. O'Connell.
Lord STANLEY admitted that a registration which is only
annual, as in England, must needs delay many voters longer
than a registration which is quarterly ; upon which admis-

sion,
Lord JOHN RUSSELL took occasion to complain that Lord
Stanley was imposing on Ireland all the hardships of the
English system, without proposing to confer upon her any of
its benefits. Sir Edward Sudden defended Lord Stanley's
proposal, and
Mr. C. WOOD said a few words, of which the tendency
was ambiguous.
Mr. Straw reminded the opponents of this measure, that
in all the former bills the proposed registration had been an-
nual and not quarterly.
Sir G. GREY proposed a transposition of certain words for
greater clearness, and the substitution of six months for
twelve. Lord Stanley explained his reasons for the form of
words as it stood ; and Mr. O'Connell complained of its
complication. Mr. Lynch supported Mr.
.O'Connell, and
Lord Stanley again explained his own view, expressing his
willingness, however, to adopt Sir G. Grey's inversion; as
to which Lord Howick and Lord J. Russell also agreed.
Mr. SHELL put one case, which Sir R. Peel disposed of ;
and Lord Morpeth suggested a second, to which Sir Robert's
answer would not apply, but which was met with a separate
answer by Lord Stanley. Mr. Shaw and the Attorney-Ge-
neral exchanged a few words, and upon Mr. C. Buller ob-
serving that all parties had agreed, six speeches ago, to sub-
stitute six months for twelve, that substitution was made
from the chair.
Ministers appearing to waver about the course they should
take for raising the critical question between annual and
quarterly registration, Lord STANLEY said he now acquitted
them of what he had at first thought an unfairness on their
part, in not giving him notice of any of their amendments, as
he by this time perceived that they did not know their own
intentions, and seemed, indeed, to have no object but to
mangle the bill: •
Lord MORPETH said this was a happy specimen of the
calm temper in which Lord Stanley proposed to argue the
bill. For his own part, he would not condescend to retaliate.
This declaration of mercy towards Lord Stanley produced a
hearty laugh from the house and another mediatorial speech
from Mr. Slaney, who exhorted all parties to behave deco-
rously.
On the words fixing the 20th of July im each year as the
period to which possession should•he referable,
Mr. SLANEY said his own leaning was towards annual re-
gistration ; but he thought the claimant should not have been
placed in a worse situation by the single than by the quad-
ruple registry ; whereas, under this bill, the judge might
strike him off or saddle him with costs. These, and other
new difficulties, were thus imposed on the claimant, The
bill should have defined the franchise and got rid of the
present ambiguity.
Mr. INGIIAM could see no connexion between the ques-
tion of annual registration and the question of alleged ob-
structions to claimants. If such obstructions existed, re-
move them ; but let not the choice between annual and quar-
terly revision depend on this consideration.
Mr. WARBURTON said, that in England it would be incon-
venient to register quarterly, because there was no tribunal
sitting quarterly to receive the claims ; but in Ireland there
was the assistant-barrister at each quarter session.
Lord Howlex thought it extremely desirable that voters
should have the earliest opportunity of registration. But
the principle having been established by the amendment on
the first clause, that votes once registered were not to be
lightly struck off, it was clearly fit that confusion and uncer-
tainty should be avoided in the original registration of them,
and these evils he did not think it easy to obviate, if quar-
terly repetitions of each claim were to be permitted. The
original inquiry, as it would be final, ought to be full and sa-
tisfactory; and this it could not be without the publication
of lists and other formalities, which it would be impractica-
ble to repeat every quarter.
Mr. PIGOT said, that the admitted abuses might be reme-
died by annual revision; but revision, of which the object
was to remove bad votes, differed wholly from registration,
of which the object was to record good ones. The latter
process might safely be a quarterly one. The Irish had been
long accustomed to a quarterly registration. It took place
at the sessions, which were attended by a staff of professional
men, present there for the transaction of the civil business
of the country, and not brought expressly and at great ex-
pense for the registration. If a claimant failed on a point of
form, he could thus repeat his application at a distance of
only three months : all legitimate objects were fully attained
by leaving these facilities untouched, and simply superadding
a tribunal of revision.
Mr. Serjeant JACKSON exposed the frauds let in by the
quarterly system. It enabled a dishonest claimant to elude
and weary out those who were on the watch against his ad-
mission. He must deny that the law of the franchise was
now ambiguous. The judges had decided that law, and those
assistant-barristers who departed from that decision departed
from their duty.
Mr. O'Cosreem, denied the-validity of the decision of the
judges. No appeal to them was given by law on the subject
of the franchise ; and their decision had even been pronounced
without the hearing of counsel. After addressing himself to
some of the details of Sergeant Jackson's speech, he argued
in answer to Lord Howick, that frequent registry was, by
the reform act and other earlier laws, a constitutional right
of the Irish people. Quarterly registrations, at the sessions,
were a great advantage to them. Their business of other
kinds was done at the sessions ; and there the claimant could
have his confidential attorney, whom he must consult on the
landed title constituting his franchise. An annual registra-
tion would occupy 20, 30,40 days. The choice of four quer.;
ters gave the tenant this advantage, that he could register at
that session when he might happen to be free from debt to
his landlord, and consequently from his landlord's controul.
Something had been said about the danger of extending agi-
tation through the year ; but perhaps there might be greater
danger in concentrating agitation into one short period,
Mr. Sergeant JACKSON contradicted Mr. O'Connell's
statement that the judges had decided the franchise without
hearing counsel, and specified the very barristers who had
argued the points. Mr. O'Connell replied that some of the
cases had been decided without argument.
Mr. SHELL said, that as two of the judges differed from the
rest, the decisions on the franchise would be one way this
circuit, and another way on that. The same man who would
be rejected in 1841 would try again and be admitted in 1842.
He regarded an annual as more formidable than a quarterly
excitement.
Lord STANLEY said, that on the words " 20th of July" in
this clause he was willing to discuss the question whether the
registration should or should not be annual ; and if the com-
mittee decided that it should not, he would carry the bill no
further. His object at the time of the reform bill was to
leave the then existing Irish registry undisturbed, until there
should have been some experience of the annual system in
England. At that time Mr. O'Connell was favourable to the
annual system ; and the authors of the various bills of former
sessions had all concurred in that opinion. Of the decisions
of the judges of Ireland he would say only, that if the
minority did not hold themselves bound by the decisions of
the majority, there could be no certainty for any law what-
ever in that country. On the subject of annual registration
in England, it was true that sonic objection had been made,
but that objection was not that the annual registration came
too seldom, but that it came too often: Would Englishmen
think it an improvement on the present annual system, that
the registration should take place at the quarter sessions, and
precede all the other business? As to the presence of lawyers,
it had always been represented as a great hindrance instead
of benefit to the business of registration. The noble lord
concluded by a commentary upon several clauses of Mr.
Pigot's bill, for the defects of which, however, he was willing
to make every allowance, considering the haste with which it
had been drawn to suit the purpose of Government.
Lord MORPETH admitted, that whatever epithets he
might have applied to some parts of this bill, no harsh or
injurious phrase coul.l be properly applicable to the clause
now under consideration. The authors of the reform bill
had proposed to wait for England's experience of the annual
registration. Were gentlemen now, after that experience, so
enamoured of the result as to resolve on communicating it
to Ireland ? If the mixture of the registration business was
injurious at the quarterly sessions, how much more injurious
wfi
ifeaedl ltdliditifeoviretsritybhoeeninirdacetoghnti
,eerentilaitsseioosnli
registration,
,eet assizes
choice
attendhp teol
crieci
aevl
looyatfetk riroiion
one
Septemberoly lieanrw l
yearly
ti
mt
oeeesrr.si
October,
sdcutmtonobi
dgeubl
eet,
tgreat seasons of rural employment : and it was reasonable
tinfluence too, whether of the landlord or of the priest, might
I.)::.pielriebnrrcoeipg!etirotytr oi:bntetir 13.irreuagrcilsit more perniciously if there were but
After this speech the hout!we tal
divided,
ipdoesds
,thalne withd
Lord four.
usrT.ANLEY,
S
registration was sustained by a majority
of
four.
Colonel SIBTIIORP, after the division, suggested to the
ministers
the propriety of resigning; f
c
b
disposition to adopt his advice. The coumt
mt
tetye
eiitst dtiocaptreodc
ene
tot
on
Neu, gave notice, that on the !notion for going
into
quarter
1
committee, lie should move an instruction
a
o the t
Arc.
o no Thursday.iicom-
mitteeli° to define municipal cesses and taxes.
Some routine business followedat,
o'clock the house adjourned.

having
t
THE THAMES TUNNEL.—The works connected withie I
this
t
undertaking have been partially suspended during t
three months, in consequence of the excavations
reached so near the Wapping side of the river that
deemed unsafe to pursue them further until the houses wasanl
buildings on the north shore were removed. The company
have been for some time in treaty for the purchase of the
buildings required ; and most of the occupants having
removed, the work of demolition will immediately commence
The large granaries so long occupied by Urquhart and C 0.,•
of Wapping High-street, the Ship public-house, the Com-
mercial Wharf, dwellings and premises in the occupation of
Archbell and Hewland, the Swan public-house, and St. John's
Wharf and buildings thereon, will all come down, and a
shaft will be sunk on the site they now stand upon, and a
circular staircase formed for foot passengers.