The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-04-07 00:00:00

death would be the reward. of spies and traitors. Were they
prepared (he exclaimed) for that rainy day ?—and the cry
was, "We are ready!' Another man from Ramsbottam
said he trusted they had arms, and asked what the people of
Manchester wished to do ? The shout in reply was " Fight."
There was to be, he said, a general fight, and they were not to
be trodden down. They must obtain the charter peaceably if
they could, but forcibly if they must. One of the speakers said
that when the national holyday arrived every one should have
a stiletto a cubit long, which they might run into the guts of
any one who opposed them. They should also put a pike
against the door, and if any one ran against it, let him do so.
The people of Middleton (he continued) had stolen lead from
the railway, and made plenty of bullets. The speaker next
told them to get guns, but he did not tell them to shoot any-
thing but sparrows ; and they should also get picks to pick
toads with, for they would want them by and bye, he would
not tell them for what purpose. The learned gentleman then
read a letter to a person named Thompson, at Birmingham,
from which it appeared that a quantity of pikes had been or-
dered from him. In conclusion, the learned sergeant said,
that no government should prevent the fair and peaceable
expression of public opinion; but the parties had gone
far beyond that, and the question for the jury to decide
was, whether they considered the meeting a harmless
one, in which fair discussion took place, or was calculated to
promote tumult, and break up the laws of the country, to
which society owed all its safety and happiness. He doubted
not but, when they heard the evidence, they would be of opi-
nion that the object was destructive and seditious.
Mr. Thomas Thornhill Clarkson.—l am a reporter for the
Manchester Guardian. I attended a meeting at Batty's cir-
cus from seeing a placard. The circus is used for equestrian
performances. I got there about eight o'clock in the even-
ing. The place was quite full. Several persons spoke from
a platform. William Butterworth moved that Mr. Dean be
called to the chair; the motion was carried, and he took the
chair. I took notes, but not full notes. This is an exa-
mined copy of my original short-hand notes which I also
produce. The words which he uttered were as follows.
[Here the witness read the speech, which attributed, oppres-
sive motives to the master manufacturers, in stopping their
mills—which was intended, the speaker said, to drive the
people to destruction. He next noticed the House of Com-
mons, in which the people had no confidence. He added
that they (the government) were getting to know that the
people would no longer stand it, and that they were prepared
for the coming crisis, and would manfully. meet it. They
were all ready. He next stated .what Butterworth said, to
the effect that they were prepared to exert moral means, and
if that would not do, they would try-something else, if the
national petition were refused. He then read his written
report of Rawson's speech, in which the speaker said that
he could think of nothing but a determination to use physical
force, and to assert their right, by bullet and steel, &c. Ri-
chardson next spoke. He said the government was now on
its trial, and could not resist the demands of the people.
The government was, moreover, bankrupt; and had issued
exchequer bills to the amount of four or five millions. The
savings batiks, too, were a mere contrivance to enable the
government to tyrannize over the people. The speaker went
on to urge the employment of arms, if the national petition
were rejected. He doubted not but that they would pay the
noblest price of their liberty,—their blood. He strongly al-
luded to the foreign policy of the government, which was
fast ruining England, and they were afraid of Russia, which
if it became restive would involve England in ruin. He then
said that Sir William Jones had expressed his opinion that
every man should have a musket in his chamber. He did
not advise them to do so, but Sir William Jones did, and let
them read the opinions of that great man. The next speaker
was Bronterre O'Brien. He rejoiced that they were up to
the work, and proceeded to say that he would prove that the
government deserved the epithet of robbers which he called
them. He also alluded to the corn-laws, which gave such
undue prices to the corn lords. The system was nothing but
wholesale damnable robbery. The speaker alluded to a leg
of mutton, the argument being that the aristocracy got the
meat, and the people the bone. He next adverted to the
ejectment of the " honorable robbers" from the houses of
parliament, but whether by the door or the windows he
would not say. Let them be strictly legal till the time came.
Let them be prepared for the crisis. They must protect
themselves from lobbing, and assasination by justifiable
vengeance. Were they prepared. (Cries of the meeting
"we are.") They would trust their cause to the God of
justice, and the God of battles. The next speaker was
M'Dowall who also spoke in strong language. He trusted
they would be armed to resist the rural police bill. When
their petition was rejected, which it would be, they must be
prepared, for a general resistance. Why, he asked, should
the chartists not be trained to arms ? They must permit no
!misfiles in England. They need not fear the soldiers in
open day. All they wanted was to protect their liberties.
They must therefore prepare to arms, and to meet the
worst. Benbow was the next speaker. He referred them to
a little book by Mr. O'Brien, which showed the right of
arming, and if 250,000 of them would only come forward
they would assist the liberties of the people. They must
prepare for the great holyday, from which day they should
not work &c. The banks would then be run upon and a
national bankruptcy. The defendant Jackson said that if
they should come to his house, he would have a pike, and
if they chose to run against it they might do so. They
should also have guns, and if they were asked for them by
the police, give them what their guns contain. The great
protect themselves by such weapons and why not they. The
speaker produced some sort of instrument which the witness
did not see and said it is in this way they ought be treated.
Abcut 1500 persons were present.]
Witness was examined by Mr. Knowles. I was at -the
meeting in Stevenson-square.
Mr. WORTLEY submitted that there was yet no proof of
conspiracy, and therefore to go into the particulars of another
meeting was irrelevant.
The learned Judge said that was a question for the jury.
Examination continued.—The meeting was held on the
I3th July. One David Roberts was in the chair. He advised
the meeting to take up any one who came to interrupt them.
If the government were determined to thrust bayonets down
their throats instead of bread they must meet face by face.
Scotland was up, and Carlisle and Newcastle were up. It
was useless to talk. They must do, Obedience was only
due to a government who gave the people due protection.
There was no protection for life and property. William
Butterworth next spoke. He advised them to obey no law
made by men not elected to parliament without their voice.
He advised them all to arise with guns and pikes. They
would compel the government and aristocracy to give up that
of which they had robbed them. If policemen entered
that meeting, let them open a way for them, and when they
got into the midst of them, let the sea of the people close in
upon them, and he would not answer for the consequences.
Each of you possess yourselves of a lump of flax, dipped in
rosin or pitch, and a bundle of coriireve matches, and you
are each of you an engine of yourselves, He informed them
that at a recent meeting two police came up in a gig, and
were properly assailed by a volley of stones. In allusion to
the Birminghum riots, he said that for every wound inflicted
on the men of that town they would have vengeance ; for
every wound they would make Lord John Rus,ell shed tears
of boiling oil. They must be determined to support their own
parliament, and they would gain their point. Mr. Rawson
next spoke. He alluded to the blood shed at Peterloo. That
dirty little fellow, Lord John Russell, had wished to see the
day when a rural police would be established all over the
country; but the moukeyfied little fellow would never see
that day. When the Manchester people took the field, the
people of Bury would not be far behind theta. If ever the
people were attacked by the bloody police, he would not ad-
vise them to forbear, but say to them, " Have at them lads."
They must arm themselves, and assert their rights. Jackson
next spoke, and proposed a resolution, to the effect that they
should use every means, moral and physical, to obtain their
rights. He approved of the conduct of those who resisted
the police at Birmingham, and regretted that the people were
prevented from taking vengeance with the rails of St. Thomas's
Church, which could not, if they were consecrated property,
be employed in a holier cause. If by no other means they
could obtain their rights, he was the man who would be at
his post with musket, bayonet, or pike. A person, named
Taylor, then spoke. .He read in the Bible that man was
made free. The time was come when this state of things
must pass away. The Bible said that a kingdom divided
within itself could not stand. This country was divided. The
rich oppressed the poor, and the government and the throne
and the whole system must fall. The Bible said so. The
government gave 20 millions for the black slaves, but woull
not give 20 shillings for you. What were they to do ? (Cries
of " Fight.") They must be free, however they accomplished
it—even if they waded through streams of blood. They had
never heard of a nation freeing itself without physical force.
An opportunity would occur, and they must embrace.
Re-examined.—On the 16th July I was at another meeting
at Batty's Circus. I saw Mr. O'Brien there. The place
was full. I believe a John Campbell was in the chair. Mr.
O'Brien first addressed the meeting. He considered the
time for lecturing and discussion was passed. The petition
had been sent to the parliament by the convention, but it had
been rejected. If the people were as much up to the
mark as he was, they would not again petition a house so
corrupt. He proposed that they should take univer-
sal suffrage, and elect their own representatives. He
knew of a plan, but it was a secret, by which they would ac-
complish this, and heat both the whigs and tories. The ar-
gument of the speaker was, that this would supersede the
present legislature. If he were elected one of them, he
would be ready with a little bill, which when passed into a
law, would put a good coat upon the back, and a good hat
on the head of the working man. He should propose that
the uncultivated lands in our colonies might be freely culti-
vated without payment. He would not take any main estate
without payment—except that of the Duke of Wellington,
who got it for cutting peoples' throats—making people die
before their time. He then went on to propose a national
holiday and cessation of labour, until the government had
yielded to their wishes. It would be said how would the
people live without work • but how did their enemies live
who worked not at all.
There were various ways. They
might beg, borrow, or steal. He would not advise them to
steal or to beg. To beg would be of no use, because they
would get nothing, unless they did as the beggar in Gil Blas
did, who, when soliciting alms, had his hat in one hand, and
the finger of his other upon the lock of a loaded blunderbuss.
They might, however, borrow. They should wipe off the
28 millions paid annually for interest on the national debt.
He also pointed out other resources. The landlords and
aristocracy had robbed the people of two millions of money,
which they would have enjoyed if they had had the forma-
tion of their own institutions.
Re-examined.—The chairman then asked if any one had
any questions to ask. A person named Carlile came forward
and
spoke. He had advised the people to arm themselves
ong ago. Universal suffrage was the main object. That
would never be obtained without physical force. He added
that universal suffrage could not, in the nature of things, cos
exist with a House of Lords. Mr. O'Brien said that he
thought that the Lords were too feeble a body to claim any
attention ; they could only do what the House of Commons
allowed them to do. All they wanted was a House
of
Com-
mons chosen by themselves, and all that was required would
follow.

Re-examined.—ln places where my notes are imperfect.
I have given a fair account of what took place.
Cross-examined by Mr. WORTLEY.—The report I have
read did not appear in the Manchester Guardian. A short
account only was inserted. In the course of my business I
attended these meetings, without any special directions. I
took the reports partly for my improvement in short-hand,
and partly because it was a rule with us to take full notes,
whether they were afterwards written fully out or not. The
Guardian, I believe, supports the present government. Some
part of every meeting appeared in that paper, but not some
part of every speech. In some measure, it is the practice for
reporters to make out their reports with a shade of the poli-
tics professed by the paper for which they report. We give
what parts we think best suited to our readers. I gave such
a report. I am turned 25. I have been a reporter about
five years. I was an attorney's clerk before that, at Wake-
field, and went from thence to the Halifax Express. There
were few meetings there to report. I am junior reporter of
the Guardian. I have studied short-hand for nine years.
(The witness's notes and written report were here required
by counsel.) Witness, by request, read a part of Butter-
worth's speech from his short-hand notes. The first meet-
ing was in Batty's Circus, a kind of theatre. There was
money received for admission. I never was friendly to
socialism ; quite the reverse. (A small pamphlet was
here put into the witness's hand.) I know that book.
It was written by me when I was nineteen years old. I
repudiate the sentiments it contains, and was persuaded to
them by others. It does not contain social principles. I
once entertained an opinion that marriage should not be a
religious, but a civil ceremony. At a great meeting at Man-
chester on the corn-laws, Mr. O'Connell called the land-
owners " robbers." Mr. Cobden has also spoken strongly,
in such language as that stated.
Cross-examined by Mr. Richardson.—l have attended
most meetings in Manchester. I cannot swear that I saw
you at more than one meeting at Manchester within the last
) ear. I have always thought that you counselled nothing at