The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-06-05 00:00:00

houses, as would positively have foiled the bill !" We really
should not wonder ; and we could further hint to Mr. Evans
that, if the Council were at this moment to be elected, a still
greater difficulty would arise.
We are quite prepared to believe, with the illustrious. Al-
derman, that " the whole advantage" of the proposed Ware-
housing Bill " will depend upon the Dock Committee (query
the Council ?) having the management of the warehouses in
their hands." Not a doubt of it, good sir ! The deprivation
Of such an advantage would " take away in detail the great
materials for municipal good government," which, doubt-
less, means municipal Whig government—government with-
out patronage ! ! It might also " lessen the inducement for
men of the highest orders to enter the Council !" We won-
der what the worthy Alderman means by men of the highest
orders, and how many are to be found in the present Coun-
cil. It is possible, however, that all the difficulty and the
darkness, the mystification and moonshine, which Mr. Evans,
who is not a councillor, but " only an Alderman," contrives
to wrap around his subject, may he dispelled by a few words,
which that indiscreet gentleman Mr. Earle, who is also an
Alderman, suffered to escape him, and to which we beg to
call the particular attention of our readers. " Talking about
political interest"—exclaimed Mr. Alderman Earle, " why
there is a political interest. lam not ashamed to avow it.
Is any man more anxious than Mr. Evans
.to have on the
Council, good, right, staunch Radicals ? And why : For
THE PATRONAGE—THE POWER IT WOULD GIVE US OF
COURSE 1 ! and it is in vain to talk that it does not give us
power and a certain degree of influence."
Weigh this last sentence well, electors of Liverpool. We
leave you to ponder upon it for the present.

A COMPARATIVE VIEW OF THE LIBERALITY OF
CHURCHMEN AND DISSENTERS.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

SIR,—I had occasion some months ago, through the
medium or your valuable paper, to vindicate the Established
Church from the charge of illiberality brought against it in a
published lecture, by a Dissenting Minister of this town.*
The effect of that vindication has ben this,—that the author
of the charge has felt himself compelled to cancel it. so far as
regards all institutions which have for their object the relief
of human suffering, and the bettering of the condition of the
poor. With the manner in which he has partially withdrawn
his accusation I have nothing to do : it is in perfect keeping
with the usual tactics of dissenting ministers, when called
upon to substantiate their charges against the church and its
usages. When the preacher in question stated in general
terms, and without making a single exception, that " Civil
Establishments of religion exerted an influence in destroy-
ing the grace of christian liberality," I of course understood
it as a general charge, involving every form of charity ;
and when in illustration of his view of Christian liberality,
he quoted a passage from St. Paul's second Epistle to the
Corinthians (ix. 12-14.) which speaks exclusively of supply-
ing the temporal wants of the saints, I could notdo otherwise

than receive that passage in the sense in which it stands in
holy writ. But it now appears from the Preacher's ex-
planation of his own lecture, that when he made a general
charge, he meant a particular or special one ; and when he
quoted a passage from Scripture,' speaking of temporal
relief, he meant " the support of Gospel ordinances,
and the diffusion of Gospel truth. But, sir, there was
no mistake, and there shall be none ! The church must be
defended against insidious as well as-open attacks. England
is not more distinguished for its constitutional liberty and
commercial enterprise, than for its public institutions of
charity and noble monuments of christian sympathy; and
the funds for the erection and continued support of these
splendid institutions have mainly been supplied by church-
men. Let the following statistical tables show how the
matter stands, and enlist in defence of our national church
every operative and labourer in the kingdom, for the church
is their best earthly friend. She provides munificently for
the accidents and disasters of human life, not forgetting the
example of her great Head, who healed the sick, the deaf, the
blind, the lame, and the lunatic, and took the children that
were brought unto him in his arms, and blessed them.
Here are the proofs of the church's care for such, people :
BEDFORD—GENERAL INFIRMARY. 1834.
Sums subscribed.
Churchmen. I Dissenters.

Annual Subscriptions..... z£1,036 0 0
Life Governors
Total of Legacies and
16,500 0 0
Donations.

Total I £27,481 0 0
In this instance Churchmen have giv
'OUNDS for every one given by Dissenters.
BRIGHTON CHARITIES.
Sums sul
Churchmen.

Institutions.

Sussex County Hospital,'
Annual Subscriptions. I
Benefactions to Do
Congr. Collectns. 1827-33

£1,393 12 0

7,570 12 0
2,435 1 0
258 9 0
1,613 6 3
358 8 6
168 8 0
70 15 0
147 11 0

Dispensary
Collections, 1810-26
Provident Society
Orphan Asylum
Dorcas Society
Maternal Society

£9O 0 0
161 0 0
500 0 0

I £751 0 0
'en THIRTY-SIX

[834.
)scribed.
Dissenters,

£l9O 0 0
299 5 0
85 4 5
47 15 6
139 10 9
18 4 6
17 8 0
4 0 0
26 8 6

Total i £14,016 2 9 I £827 16 8
In this instance Churchmen have given SIXTEEN POUNDS
Or every one given by Dissenters.
BRISTOL. 1833-4.
Sums subscribed.
Churchmen. I Dissenters.

Institutions.

Infirmary—Ann. Subs
Do.—Life Trustees, don. 1
of 30 guineas each.... I
Do.—Legacies, 1833
General Hospital
Do.—Donations, 1833-4
Blind Asylum
Do.—Life Members
Do.—Legacies, 1833
Eye Hospital
Penitentiary .
Do.—Legacies.
Dispensary
Do.—Legacies,
Clifton Dispensary
Do.—Legacies & Donation,
Asylum—Orphan Girls'
Do.-11 last Legacies
Do.-11 list Donations

£1,513 6 0
2,736 12 0
2,064 2 6
436 19 0
554 11 6
57 7 0
416 10 0
100 0 0
54 11 0
153 15 6
90 0 0
299 6 0
176 9 0
232 10 0
364 19 2
247 17 0
1,346 18 2
680 0 0

£398 15 0

601 0 0

0 0 0
293 3 0
397 9 6
8 8 0
63 0 0
0 0 0
11 11 0
44 1 6
0 0 0
159 12 0
0 0 0
14 4 0
0. 0 0
74 10 0
0 0 0
100 0 0

Total... ..
Thus in Bristol, one of ti
Churchmen give FIVE POU
seaters.
CAMBRIDGE—ADDINGBROOKE'S HOSPITAL.
1834. Sums subscribed.
Churchmen. Dissenters.

£11,525 13 10 I .f 2,165 14 0
le boasted strongholds of dissent,
NDS for every one given by Dis-

£77712 0 £54 12 0
3,740 15 0 168 0 0
20,000 0 0 0 0 0

Annual Subscriptions, 1832
Donations.

Total of Benefactions and
Legacies

Total,

This account of annual sul
name of any parish or collei
one of which might be added
matter as it stands shows t

1 £24,518 7 0 £212 12 0
bscriptions does not contain the
ge subscribing as a body, every
1 to the churchmen's list, but the
that Churchmen have given ONE
MINDS to this charity for every

HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN P,
one pound given by Dissent
CHICHEE

:ers.
iTER. 1833-4.
Sums subscribed.
Churchmen. I Dissenter.t

Institutions.

MEETING OF THE PROPRIETORS OF THE

BOTANIC-GARDEN

A meeting of the proprietors of the Botanic-garden was
held at the Clarendon-rooms on Tuesday, for the purpose of
discussing 'the propriety or otherwise, of opening the garden
to the public on Sundays. The room was crowded by clergy-
men and gentlemen of both parties in politics, amongst whom
were several members of the town-council. The chair was
taken by Charles Horsfall, Esq.
The CHAIRMAN said, the meeting had been convened in
consequence of a numerously signed requisition complaining
that at the meeting at which Mr. Turner's motion had been
carried. not more than one-fifth of the proprietors werepresent.
Mr. T. B. HORSFALL, as one of the requisitionists, begged
to be allowed to make a few observations. He should greltly
regret if it were supposed that they acted from a spirit of fac-
tion, or with any want of courtesy towards the gentlemen who
were opposed to them : nothing was further from their inten-
tions. The question having been before decided by so small
a majority, at a meeting were not more than one-fifth of the
proprietors were present, many of the proprietors having re-
ceived no notice of it whatever, They came to the conclusion
that it was proper, before the subject could be considered as
decided, that another meeting should be called. He would
respectfully call to their recollection the amendment made,
he believed, by their worthy rector, that it would be unwise
to open the gar den to the public on Sundays. 'ln that opinion
he concurred. It would be unwise, as leading to sabbath
desecration, and it would be unwise considering the injury
that might be done to the gardens. All acknowledged the
sabbath to be, at least, a day of rest. The same authority
which declared it to be a day of rest, said that when God
rested the seventh day,-he also blessed it, and made it holy.
Ile had yet to learn, that throwing open the gardens to the
public on Sundays, would not lead to scenes of riot and dese-
cration. He moved that it would be unwise to open the gar-
dens to the public on Sundays, and that the • resolution of
Mr. Turner passed at the last meeting be rescinded. •
The Rev. Rector CAMPBELL rose to second the motion.

He did so with great reluctance,—first, because from the state
of his health he could not do proper justice to the subject—
and secondly, because he was reluctant to take any part which
would seem to abridge the enjoyments of the labouring classes,
or curtail the number of their harmless recreations. Yet he
must deliberately avow, that he was adverse to anything that
would have the effect of congregating any large number of
individuals in any particular locality on the Sunday. Such
congregations always ended in levity and dissipation, if not
in actual vice. He had seen such scenes of digusting dis-
order on the opposite side of the water, in the neighbourhood
of the ferries on the sabbath, that he trembled to think of
anything that was likely to bring about similar scenes on this
side. The rev. gentleman read an extract from the Railway
Magazine showing that the directors of the Croydon railway
—by way of bringing grist to the mill—(and he believed it
was for grist to the mill in the shape of £2OO a-year from the
council that this proposition had been mooted) had erected a
number of booths at Norwood, the consequence of which was
that parties were to be seen fishing, rioting, and drinking in
that district on the sabbath, the place having all the revolting
characteristics of Greenwich Fair. He would not libel the
people of Liverpool so far as to say that they could be guilty
of such excesses : he would not libel the magistrates so far
as to suppose that they would permit them : but there would
be a difficulty in preventing the desecration of the sabbath if
these gardens were thrown open to the public on that day.
He was rather adverse to what might be termed sabbath legis-
lation. He should be cautious how he advocated the enacting
of laws to prevent sabbath desecration, but he should be still
more cautious in enacting laws to promote such desecration.
He believed that this was wished for merely as a precedent
for opening other places : and thus would they soon get to a
Parisian sabbath.

Mr. TURNER said, he had listened with great attention to
what had fallen from the speakers who opposed his views,
but had not heard anything that had altered his opinions.
Why did the people go over the water on Sundays--why did
they go to gin-shops? Why, because here was a town con-
taining two hundred and fifty thousand inhabitants, and they
had not a park or a public garden to go to! He moved that
the resolution passed at the last meeting be confirmed.
The CHAIRMAN said it had been intimated to him that

there were several ladies outside who had attended for the
purpose of recording their votes. He would suggest that
some gentleman should go outside and take their votes, as it
would prevent them from being put to- the inconvenience of
pressing forward into that crowded room. _ _ _

Several conflicting opinions were expressed on this subject.
Mr. Earle and Mr. Martineau said they had informed several
ladies, who had put the question to them, that there was no
means whereby they could have their votes taken. It was at
length decided to be the general opinion, that, though ladies
might vote, it was not expedient that any person should go
out to receive their votes. There were, however, several dis-
sentients to this opinion,
The Rev. ROBT. DAVIES was not surprised that the ladies
wished to record their votes in opposition to the motion for
opening the gardens to the public on Sundays, for many of
them would of necessity be compelled to pass by the Botanic-
gardens on their way to and from Edge-hill church, on the
afternoon of Sunday ; besides, there was on Edge-mount a
ladies' academy, consisting of a large number of pupils,—
these also would have to pass through therabble, which would
necessarily be collected around the door of the gardens.
Admission would not be granted to all; some discrimination
would necessarily be made ; the more decent and respectable
would be allowed to enter, while the lowest and vilest would
be excluded. Through this low and vile mob these young
ladies would be forced to make their way to and from church ;
and he would ask what parent would willingly subject his
daughter to the disgusting scenes, the profane and obscene
language with which their eyes and ears would be assailed ?
Mr. WILLIAM EARLE thought there was a material dif-
ference between those persons who conscientiously believed
that no person could walk innocently in a garden on the
Sabbath, and those who, while they had no scruples in walk-
ing themselves in their gardens, and examining and com-
paring their flowers, would yet prevent other people from
doing so. It had been said that injury would be done to the
plants. There had not seen any injury done to the plants at
the Mount-gardens, when the public were admitted to them.
Between four and five thousand persons had visited the
Botanic-gardens on the Monday preceding and not a twig

. .
injured.
The Rev. Mr. MARTINEAu went into arguments to show
that the Sunday, the Christian Sabbath, the first day of the
week, was not the day (the seventh day) respecting which the
command was given that it should be kept holy, and that if
.it were to be so considered, still there was no violation of the
command in walking forth in a garden.

The Rev. Dr. TATTERSHALCNIShed to call back the minds
of those'prcsent to the circumstance that the Sabbath was a
hallowed day, which was not to be desecrated in any way or
manner. If they observed this day as the Sabbath, they had
the commandment of God, who had blessed it and hallowed
it, that they should keep it holy. With .respect to the ques-
tion of health, he had yet to learn that the religious poor,
who would not use the Sabbath as a day of recreation, were
less healthy than those who did so.
Mr. C. S.,PARKER, in reply to the remarks of Mr. Walter
Fletcher„ avowed himself to he one of " the unenlightened
and bigoted" majority of the committee, who decidedly op-
posed the admission of the public to the gardens on the
Lord's day, and read from their original minute book, TWO
resolutions for the entire closing of the gardens even to pro-
prietors, on Sundays, passed (the latter unanimously) at
general meetings held in 1802 and 1808, when the historian
of Leo the Tenth, and the biographers of PoggiO Bracciolini
and of Robert Burns, as well as Dr. Traill, the Rev: John
Yates, Mr. William Ratitb-ane; sen., and Mr. Thomas Earle,
were .officers of ,tlie institution. Mr. P. then gave notice,
that, at the next annual meeting, in January, he sould move
the re-enactment of the original law (which remained in force
till May, 1814,) for the entire closing of the gardens on Sun-
days.

A very general call was made for a division. A show of
hands was taken, but the Chairman could not with certainty
decide, though he thought the majority was against the open-
ing of the gardens. After some discussion, it was decided
that each individual should sign his name on a paper marked
so as to indicate which way he voted. The result was as fol-
lows :—Against opening the gardens to the public on Sun-
days, 129 ; for opening them, 78 ; majority, 51.
In answer to a question from Mr. SHEIL, the CHAIRMAN
stated, that the committee had already passed a resolution to
open the gardens to the public on the afternoons of Monday
and Friday in each week. The time when this privilege will
commence is to be announced.

Mr. RATHBONE proposed the thanks of the meeting to
the Chairman, with many warm eulogies on the latter for his
-cxcellent and impartial conduct.
The meeting separated at half-past three o'clock.
[A contemporary of yesterday, in his report of Mr. Hors-
fall's speech, has volunteered a correction which was entirely
uncalled for. Mr. Horsfall, in the course of his speech, re-
ferred to the discussion which took place in the council on
the subject of the Botanic Garden, and quoted the following
words as having been spoken by the Mayor, in reference to
the voting on the occasion :

" Gentlemen, I have no hesitation in saying, that if mem-
bers had kept their seats, the decision would have been the
Very reverse of what it is."

On this quotation our contemporary remarks :
" Mr. Horsfall, we think, must either have read an incor-
rect report or have been misinformed. His worship said, or
at least we understood him to say, the very reverse of what
is attributed to him by Mr. Horsfall—namely, that if all the
gentlemen who had left the room had remained, and voted in
the minority, the result would have been precisely the same.
A reference to figures will prove this. At the time of the
first division there were 12 present ; at the second, 36. Now,
if the six who left the room had voted with the minority on
Mr. Yates's motion, the numbers would have been-23 for,
19 against."

Now, on referring to the report in the Mercury, we find
the following words attributed to the Mayor :
" The Mayor said it might be as well to notice, that if all
the gentlemen who had gone out had voted, they would have
altered the decision of the question as it then stood."
Between these expressions and the language quoted by
Mr. H orsfall we can only discover a slight verbal difference.)