The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-03-12 00:00:00

IMPORTANT PUBLIC MEETING,
3AINST,THE INTRODUCTION OF THE POOR LAW INTO

LIVERPOOL,

Yesterday a most important public meeting of rate-payers,
or Special General Vestry, was convened in St. Nicholas's
Church, by the churchwardens and overseers, in compliance
with the following requisition, signed by ninety-three of the
most respectable firms and individuals in the town :

" To the Churchwardens and Overseers of the Parish of
Liverpool.

Centlemen,—Mr. Mott, the poor-law commissioner,
having given the Select Vestry notice that it is intended to
introduce the new poor-law into Liverpool immediately after
Easter, we, the undersigned, bring rate-payers of this parish,
request that you will call a Special Vestry, to take into con-
sideration the propriety of adopting such measures as may
prevent the introduction of this act into the parish.
" Liverpool, March 1841."
The meeting was called for one o'clock, and about that
time the church was almost crowded.
The Rev. JONATHAN BROOKS, senior-rector of the
parish, took the chair.
Mr. LOWNDES, the vestry clerk, read the requisition, as
it appeared in our last number. The requisition, lie added,
stated that Mr. Mott, the assistant poor law commissioner,
had given the Select Vestry notice that the New Poor Law
would be introduced into this parish after Easter ; but since
that had been printed, the Vestry had received the warrant
of the poor law commissioners, constituting this parish an
union after the 25th inst. (Hear, hear).
The CHAIRMAN said the meeting had heard the report
read under which the churchwardens and overseers had con-
vened the rate-payers, for the purpose of affording then, an
opportunity of expressing their opinions upon the introduc-
tion of the New Poor Law into Liverpool. He begged leave
to remind the meeting that it was the law of the land—(hear,
hear)—and that their principal object must be directed, if
they thought it right, to get an alteration in, or exemption
from, it ; but that there was not a question of its being the
law. (Hear, hear). It was absolutely the law, and as such
they were bound to obey it—(hear, hear) ; but if they
thought it unnecessary in this parish, they might take
such legal steps, as might be found useful in preventing its
introduction. He should now be glad to hear some of those
gentleu,'••► who had signed the requisition, and who were
prepared to recommend sonic measures to the adoption of
the meeting.

Mr. WoTHERsPoox moved the first resolution, which
declared in effect that since the introduction of Sturges
Bourne's act into Liverpool the assessment to the poor-rate,
and the relief of the poor, bad been productive of great satis-
faction to the parish at large. In moving this resolution he
would mention a few of the reasons which appeared to him
most cogent for wishing to prevent the introduction of the
New Poor Law into this parish. He agreed with the Rev.
Chairman that it was the law of the land, and that if the
Commons chose to enforce it in Liverpool they had th e
power. His object, therefore, would simply be to place
before the commissioners such reasons as appeared to him
ought to induce them to waive still longer that power which
they had waived for seven years, ever since the passing of
the Act. The Poor LaW Act came into force in 1834; and
since that time the Commons had not thought fit to apply it
to Liverpool. (Hear). And he had reason to believe that
they had not done so because, both from information which
had been transmitted to them, and from their own observa-
tion,—some of them having seen the system in operation,—
they had not thought it necessary to extend to Liverpool the
proviSions which they had extended to other parts of the
country. To show the working of the present system he
should he should have to trespass upon the time of the meet-
ting with a few details. In the year 1819 Mr. Sturges
Bourne's Act was passed to amend the laws for the relief of
the poor, and under that act the Select Vestry of Liverpool
was established. He should enter into a few details to show
the working of the system under the old and new law. In
1820 the number of assessmedts in the parish was 21,053 for
1562 paupers in the workhouse, and out-door relief for 3223
people. The expenses of that support to the poor were in
that year £60,630. The rate for the relief of the poor was
then 3s. Bd. in the pound. The act came into force the year
when Mr. Benson and Mr. Crag were overseer and church-
warden ;" and it went on practically and successfully in reduc-
ing the expenditure of the parish for the relief of the poor,
and yet steadily granting increased relief to the necessitous
poor of the town. In 1829 the number of asses.ments
were 27,023, being an increase of 6000, and the population of
the town no doubt had increased in the same proportion.
In that year the number in the poor.house was 1553, and
out-door relief was administered to 1291 persons, the.
Select Vestry being empowered in the administration of
relief to the poor, to extend it to the idle and dissolute poor,.
and to those who were real objects of charity, to the latter of
whom, only, he believed relief ought to be extended. The
expenditure that year for the poor upon the increased asess-
ment was £39,684 against 1;q
0,630, which it was in 1820.
(Hear.) The system had gone on working much in the same
way up to the present year. In the year 1839, ending June,
1840, the number of assessments was 35,345, being 14,000
more than there were in 1820. The expense of maintaining
the poor that year—during which there were 1804 inmates in
the workhouse, and relief was administered to 2207 outdoor
poor—amounted to £45,861, or Is. sd. per head. (Hear,
hear.) He need not say more for the beneficial working of
the system under which the town had been governed during
the last 20 years, for it shewed that whilst an increase to the
relief of the poor had been progressive the dimunition of rates
had also been progressive. He held in his hand a table of
the parochial rates of Liverpool for several years before the
introduction of Sturges Bourne's act, and it, perhaps, would
be profitable to read it. In years 1814, 1815 and 1816, the
poor's-rate was 2s. Ild. in the pound upon an assessment
averaging £550,000. In 1818 the rate was 4s. 10d. upon an
assessment averaging £580,000. In 1820 the rate.was 3s.
Bd. upon an assessment averaging £555,000. Now he ven-
tured to say that the really deserving poor were not at that
period relieved to the same extent as they were now. A
vast deal of money raised for their relief was given away in-
discriminately to all, and the consequence was that the poor's-
rates were rapidly increasing, and becoming an absolute
nuisance. But since the introduction of Sturges Bourne's
act, the rates had been reduced to 2s. 6d., 25., Is. 9d., and

for the last three years to Is. sd.' which they were now upon
a reduced nominal assessment. Surely if anything ought to
satisfy the inhabitants who contributed to those rates, it
ought to be such a 'state of things as was now laid before
them. All the facts he had stated were taken from offi-
cial documents, and any gentleman who chose to take
the trouble might go through those documents and
verify them. They hail gone on for twenty years under
this system, and for the last seven years, as he had
said, before the poor-law commissioners had not thought tit
to extend the poor-law system to Liverpool. (Hear, hear.)
Why they were now coming forward to do so was more than
he could tell, he should indeed be glad to hear any reason
assigned for their interference, because there was no com-
plaint from the community of increased expenditure, or
from the poor of want of attention or of comfort, and indeed
there had been less of them than there ever had been
any time within his knowledge. (Hear, hear.) As to the
working of the.new poor-law here, he could not venture to
prophesy, but as far as we had hitherto seen its operation
in large parishes, we had heard nothingbut complaints of it,
both as to its increased expenditure and as to the sufferings
of the poor. He was, therefore, curious to know or to hear
some reason assigned why it should be introduced into
Lverpool. He was old• falioned enough to be inclined to
`• leave well alone ;" or, to use language much more appro-
priate, he would rather
-Bear those ills we have,
Than rush to others we know not of.

(Hear, hear, and cheers.) He doubted very greatly whether
the poor under the new law would be so efficiently or so
cheaply provided for as they were now. In proof of one
part of its working which he most objected to, was that
which withheld all relief to those in immediate want, except
upon the condition of their going into the workhouse. In
fact, it drove all the poor of the parish into the workhouse,
and it separated husband and wife. He should conclude by
simply moving the resolution.
Mr. PRITC HARD seconded the resolution. I-Ie said that
he was an inhabitant of Kirkdale, in the parish of Walton,
and he would state some facts to show the operation of the
new poor-law upon that township. In 1837 the cost of the
poor in the township of Kirkdale was £l7O. In 1838, during
part of which it was under the new poor law, the cost of the
poor was £183.. In 1839, during the entire of which year it
was included within the union of West Derby, the cost of
the poor was £243 4s. 4d. In 1840 it was £302 6s. 4d. In
1841, that is up to the present day, it was £423 19s.
(Hear.) The meeting must recollect that Kirkdale was but
a very small township ; that the number of its poor was com-
paratively very limited, and that, besides these amounts,
casual •relief had been administered to the poor by private
subscriptions to the amount of between £lOO and £1;10. It
appeared that by what had already been done, that the an-
nual expense would still go on increasing, not that pauperism
was increasing in the neighbourhood of Kirkdale, but merely
from the altering of the system. He begged to second the
resolution.

Mr. EARLE had had a great deal of conversation with a
relative of his, who perhaps had had more to do with the
poor-law than Mr. Wotherspoon, with the poor-law commis-
sioners, and with the practical working of the system. He
did not know that there had been any complaints made by
the poor of those parishes where it had been introduced, that
justice had not been done to them, and he was sure that,
generally speaking, the system had economized the funds.
It did not follow that the funds would not be equally well
administered under the poor-law commissioners as under the
select vestry.
A VOICE.—NN mild they do it better?

Mr. EAntEr—That remained to be proved. It would not
be better by a statement of that gentleman, nor the worse
either. (Hear, hear, and laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN begged that Mr. Earle might be allowed
to proceed.

Mr. EARLE proceeded to say that the poor law commis-
sioners were constituted judges, as it were, of what was going
on in the parish, and that they saw things 1 great deal clearer
than the people who were connected with the parish. (Great
uproar.) Mr. \Votherspoon had asked why the poor-law com-
missioners were introducing the poor-law here. If he were
asked why they were comng down hue he should say that
was a tender subject, but he would reply it was in conse-
quence of the opposition made to the warehouse project last
year, of the parish money having been illegally spent in that
opposition. He really believed that to b the reason why
the new poor-law had heen introduced here. He was very
glad to see it introduced, because he thought it would be
properly administered. He did not mean to say that the
law had not been properly administered hitherto, but he
meant to say that the poor.law commissioners would admi-
nister it. much better. It was impossible to prevent them
coming down here, they had issued theinorders, and the in-
troduction of the law was merely carrying their orders into
effect, and he thought that the parishioners would be occupy-
ing their time much better if they would meet and see how
they could carry the new machinery into effect more benefi
cially to themselves and to the poor. He did not wish to
mix the question up with party at all. (Laughter.) Gentle-
men laugh, but he should maintain his own opinion. He
had alluded to a relation of his, who was not, he was sorry
to say, of the same way of thinking in politics as himself,
but who was a strenuous advocate of the poor-law. That
relative had mentioned to him an instance, in a very low part
of Birmingham, where its introduction had effected much
improvement in the place by its incorporation with the
union of Aston, and which formed a striking contrast to the
manner in which the old laws were administered in Birming-
ham. He had now answered Mr. Wotherspoon's question
Why the poor-law commissioners had come down here ;„ all
that he wished for was for fair play to be shown to all parties,
the poor as well as the rich. He should now sit down.
The CHAIRMAN asked Mr. Earle if he meant to move an
amendment ?
Mr. EARLE.-011, I am not going to make an amendment;
the observations I made were merely in answer to Mr.
Wotherspoon. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.)
The CHAIRMAN said it was quite right for the meeting to
hear all parties, and he was much obliged to the gentlemen
for what they had stated, but it was for the meeting to take
these measures which they might deem beneficial to the
parish ; as Mr. Earle had not moved an amendment, he
should put the motion.
Mr.BIREETT wished first to make a few observations in
answer to Mr. Earle, but
The CHAIRMAN said he was rather late, and he had better
defer them.—M r. Birkett acquiesced.
The resolution was then put, and carried unanimously.
Mr. A• SMITH, jun. said, that as one of the requisitionists
he had the honour to propose for the adoption of the vestry,
the next resolution. He felt that no case whatever had been
shown foe the introduction of the new poor-law into this