The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-10-12 00:00:00

Salthouse Dock, and the Prince's Dock. That it be referred
to the Dock Committee to make any report, at the same spe-
cial Council, as they may deem expedient for the further in-
formation of the Council, and that, in the meantime, the
Dock Committee be authorized to give such notice of a bill,
or bills, as they may deem advisable, so far as to secure the
ensuing session, it being understood that until further consi-
deration, the Council do not thereby stand pledged to any
ulterior measures, and that the further consideration of the
proceedings and reports of the Dock and Finance Commit-
tees stand adjourned to the Council to be specially appointed
by adjournment from the next quarterly Council."
With regard to the question of fire; this is a matter of grave
consideration. The moment the fire took place, the other
day; -several- said;-"-here is-an- end of tire- -warehouses-."-
Whereas my friend Mr. Evans, with great ingenuity, has
shown that warehouses built in this way might put an end to
fires. Let all the evidence be got on the subject, which will
bear out our minds and satisfy us. I think, gentlemen, I
have said enough to satisfy your minds that this is but rea-
sonable. I wish you to bear this in mind, that in sanctioning
this bill for promoting measures that may produce its rejec-
tion, we run the risk of saddling ourselves with the expense.
The warehouse owners cannot. say that they are defeated;
far from it. I express no opinion on the subject myself; my
mind is not made up; I pronounce no opinion upon it. On
the other hand, the members of the dock committee, who
have so ably brought before us this measure, will feel that we
only ask for the same information on it as they themselves
have, and on which they have made up their minds.
Mr. Alderman EvAris.—Who pays the expenses?
Mr. Councillor CURRIF..—If the bill is successful they are
borne out by the funds of the docks by a clause on the bill
itself; if not, they are borne out by the borough hinds. There
is no doubt of that whatever.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.-1 don't understand that.
The TOWN-CLERK.—If the bill passes there will be a pro-
vision that the expense does not fall on the borough funds;
but if the bill does not pass, the expense will fall on the pro-
moters; the promoters can only be the town council, acting
in their judgment for the benefit of the borough.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—Cannot the bill provide against
that?

TowN.cr.Eak.—lf the bill passes; but if the bill does
not pass, there is no authority given.
Mr. Councillor DAvio HODGSON.—Can the Town-clerk
give us any idea what the expense will be?
The TOWN-CLEI:K.-li is impossible.—l should say £7OO,
and more arising on an opposition.
Mr. Alderman BnowN.—l rise to second the motion.
Mr. Aldermon BooTti, who had before risen, again rose.
The NIAYOR.-Mr. Booth rose before. It was arranged
that Mr. Brown should proceed for the purpose of seconding
the amendment.

Mr. Alderman BROWN said his object was postponement. ,
As his friends Mr. Evans and Mr. Currie were nervous, he
could not say but that he was so when addressing public
meetings, and he had therefore prepared himself with pretty
copious notes. Mr. Brown then proceeded to read a speech
of considerahle length; but as we make a point of never
taking notes of written and read speeches, which, if worth
anything, are generally, as a matter of courtesy, handed to
the reporters, we are only able to give the gist of it. He was
an advocate for the land near the docks being open to private
purchasers to build warehouses upon ; but was opposed to the
dock committee building them. He denied that the building
of warehouses on the docks would give increased despatch.
The principal objection to warehouses on the verge of the
docks was the risk of fire, which he contended would be very
great. and instanced the warehouse built on the verge of the
New York docks, recently destroyed by fire, as a❑ example
of the danger, they having fallen " like chaff before the
wind." And where would our ships have been at the recent
fire if the warehouses had been on the margin of the docks?
There were two or three ships set on fire as it was. He was
an enemy to all monopolies. He thought individual ware-
house owners would do their work better and cheaper than
monopolists; he detested monopolies; he had been against
them all his life. He thought the present mode of dock ac-
commodation was not proper; he did not like the mode of
charging by tonnage; the charging ought to be according to
the room occupied.
The MA v oft.—That is not the question before us. lie
would have regulations adopted so as to ensure despatch.
He would have the landing-waiters paid a fixed salary, and
so much for the work they performed. He would also have
one gang of porters to do the work of each ship. If they got
these matters arranged he did not fear the competition of any
port on earth, Ile was sure it would give them all the ad-
vantage they wished. Speaking of fire, they had had two or
three ships on fire in the docks, and it had been found neces-
sary for the general safety to scutt►e them.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—But did not the fires originate in
the holds ?
Mr. Alderman BitowN.—Yes, they did.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—Ave, there it is.
Mr. Alderman BROWN concluded with seconding the
amendment of Mr. Currie.
Mr. Alderman 800-ru.—l was a good deal surprised to
hear from Mr. Currie that he thought this question had not
been sufficiently discussed, after the discussion in the finance
committee-room, the dock committte-room, and in the pub-

lie press.
Mr. Councillor CURRIE.—The bill was not discussed.
Mr. Alderman Boorn.—The main part was. 1, therefore
do think it my duty to oppose his motion. I have no objec-
tions to offer—indeed, I believe that that haste was fully
justified by circumstances; and for my own part in the ex-
pediency of what is recommended, I fully concur. I object
only to that part of the proceedings which would authorise
the dock trustees to build warehouses on the dock quays, or
to rent land for that purpose. The plan before us is not the
same as before, but is similar in principle, and that did re-
ceive the sanction of a small majority. We have now the
heads of the bill before us; I apprehend it will be in order
to discuss the several interests. I wish to know if it is in
order.
The Mayor.—Yes, it will he in order if you are going to
conclude with a motion. You are aware there is a motion
and an amendment. If you mean to conclude with an
amendment, we should, first of all, get rid of one amend-
ment, before another is proposed.
Mr. Councillor CHARLES LAWRENCE.—AIIow me to ask
a question in point of order. We can make no amendment
in the dock proceedings. I apprehend they must be con-
firmed or not. 'NW may object to any part of them, or the
whole of them; we cannot make atnendments; we can origi-
nate nothing, but must send back to the dock comtnittte.
The TowN-ctEee..-1 apprehend Mr. Lawrence is under
this mistake, that we are now under the (1.el: proceedings
under the act of parliament. This is a new subject entirely;
it is to be treated in the same way as the report of any com-
mittee in this council. Therefore it is in the power of any
member to move any amendment that he may think proper,
on the original motion, to confirm the proceedings.
Mr. Alderman Boorii.—The time is so recent when this
matter was discussed here, when I had an opportunity of ex-
pressing my opinions, that not to occupy your time, my opi-
nions are the same now as then ; and if I thought the re-
fusal of that measure would endanger in any degree the
prosperity of Liverpool, I should be the last to oppose it.
My hopes or wishes for the prosperity of Liverpool are as
great as any man's. I will not yield even to my friend Mr.
Evans, who has eloquently prognosticated its prosperity.
He has based this prosperity on the surrounding of our
docks with warehouses. I expect this prosperity without
that. It is my wish that that welfare should go on unaccom-
panied with a serious injury to a large property in this town,
by the carrying into effect this proposed scheme. That this
would not he, the effect is only called in question by those
who have no property in the town, and is almost universally
admitted by those who have. The large warehouse pro-
perty is clearly adequate for the business of the port. This
was evidenced last summer, when with an extraordinary
glut of corn and cotton, no inconvenience was felt. The in-
creasing use of steam power must, in my opinion, fend to
make this port less and less a port of deposit. If I am right
in this conjecture, the injury of this scheme on warehouses
would be great in the extreme. As to the despatch of vessels,
I think a great deal might be done in that behalf, by the use
of cranes and improved customs' regulations, and by various
ways we need not go into here; and, 1 think the present
warehouse system in Liverpool might offer no insuperable
objection to the using of warrants as they are used in Lon-
don. I must allude to a very important point, that is tire;
no care can guarantee us against that calamity; and if a
fire was to occur it would not be confined to two or three
warehouses; and the injury done to ships must be incalcu-
lable. As to what Mr. Evans has said, they could easily be
removed. I should like to ask, suppose the Prince's dock
full of vessels at low water, you could not get any of them
out ; and even if it took place at high water, if the wind were
high, you could move very few of them. As to the difficulty
of their getting fire, I cannot understand it,. as they have
masts and yards of inflammable materials, and covered with
pitch; they would soon be one mass of flame. Holding
these opinions, I shall move a further amendment---" That
the building of warehouses cannot be sanctioned at present
on the Dock-quays ; and that the proceedings of the com-
mittee he confirmed with that exception."
Mr. Ald. Hos T.—l should wish to say one word on the
subject of the fires. The erection of these warehouses which
the council had agreed to, would be built, as 1 understand,
entirely fire-proof, that is, totally of uninflammable materials :
iron, stone, bricks, slates and so on, and no inflammable
matter whatever. Then with regard to the goods to be
brougat there, it is possible to render them as entirely proof
against accident, independent of the strict rules to be en-
forced as to porters. Suppose, for instance, that a large
main was cut from the canal basin on the west side of the
.Prince's Dock, and 50 or 100 bundles in these warehouses,
and by the turning of a cock you float the who'e. It appears
to me that the entertainment of fear of fire is totally un-
founded, if we avail ourselves of our natural advantages—if
a large body of water were at Everton at all times available
for putting out fires without forcing the water. It is for want
of a constant supply of water that ouurniicpa
insurances
ho
anacuetsarritieesos
high. This may be obviated if our municipal
would unite for the attainment of the object. i hear none
of the speakers say that these warehouses so erected would
render other warehouses less useful; on the contrary, they
seem to oppose them; because they would have a preference.
(Near, hear.) Is that a reason, but for their adoption ? .If
the arguments against the erection of these warehouses were
based on the broad ground of deteriorating the part, or ren-
dering it less convenient, it would be intelligible. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor EAItLE.—Am I in order to second Mr.
Booth's motion ?
The MAVOli.—lf you merely second it. The council has
heard Mr. Currie's amendment, which is, in fact, to postpone
the motion; has any gentleman any further remark to make?
Mr. Alderman LEATHOM.—Sir, I beg to remark that I am
surprised to find that any allusion is made to postponing the
question ; we have considered that the vote of the emitted
on that subject was final and conclusive, and that we are not
to have that question considered again which cost us so much
time. The proposttion of Mr. Currie is, that it be consi-
dered ; and also, that of Mr. Booth. On the part of the
gentlemen near me (Mr. Evans, Mr. Benn, &c.) we
cannot consent to any postponement of that proposition
which has already been considered upon. We made a sepa-
rate bill of it for the purpose in the full faith and confidence
that a vote of this counA once passed is not to be again
discussed, arid probably annulled by such discussion. I shall,
therefore, object to any motion which has for its object any
postponement. But we should have no objection to con-
e...+.. ties --tie', that the bill is to go forwards as respects the
docks; although the thing has been so very long before the
puetie—s,,iee ...iaeLit last, that 1 think we ought to come to
some conclusion.
Mr. Councillor JOHN HOLME.—That is very extraordinary
language, Mr. Mayor, that they "will not consent." (Hear,
hear.) The council can consider any question put before
them.
The Towte-Ctene.—l apprehend that there can be no
question at all in the power of the council to re-consider a
motion.
Mr. Alderman BENN.—No doubt about it, it can be re•
considered again; but we are not to disturb the decision as
to the warehouses in Prince's Dock.
'rime Tows-Cseate.-1 am not snaking any argument as
to inconsistency. It is perfectly clear that the council have
the power to re-consider any proposition, even of their own;
as the Dock Committee did re-conider the question of an ob-
servatory. Besides bringing the question of warehouses on
Prince's Dock again before the council, they have a right to
call for notice to be given.
Mr. Alderman BENN.—Then the Dock Committee will
have no objection to deferring it if notice is to be given.
Mr. Councillor HUGH Ho RNBY.—AIt hough I cannot agree
that the question has not been sufficiently agitated, vet still,
when we consider the great interest of those parties oh
warehouses, 1 think it would only be a courteous matter in us
to postpone the question. For my own part, my mind is
made up on the subject. 1 think the advantages to be de-
rived would far outweigh the disadvantages to some. (Hear,
hear.) There is no improvement can be introduced which
will not in some measure hurt individuals. But it is our in-
terest to look at what will promote the general interest of the
,town. We come here not to look after our own interests,
but the interests of the town. .1 was very ranch' surprised,-to
hear that those who do not possess warehouses are not proper
persons to consider this subject. I am a holder of ware-
houses, and if 1 had held them near the docks, I should have

had great diffidence in voting, from the fear of giving a bi-
assed opinion. But though I bold considerable warehouse
property, I am stiil so convinced that it will be for the benefit
of the Dock Estate, as well as of the town of Liverpool,
that my mind is made up; at the same, it would be as well
to defer the consideration of this measure. With regard to
the subject of fire, I think the very simple fact mentioned
by Mr. Evans, that the insurance against fire in the docks
of London, where this system is followed, is only Is. 6d.
Mr. Councillor Cunt:lE.—Three shillings.
Me. Alderman EVANS.—It's only Is. 6d.
Mr. Councillor H. HoßNnY.—lt does not signify. Where,
as we all know, here it is from 10s. to 12s. That is a conclu-
sive proof that the danger is very much less. It has been
-stated by Mr:l3rown,"Thit a ffie did arise in-the St. Kathe-
rine's Docks. But what was the consequence? The arrange-
ments there under a public body, were such as very soon put
it out. It is very true, as Mr. Booth states, that no care can
prevent fire; but there are circumstances which much lessen
the danger, lam quite satisfied that water could be made
available, and that the danger of fire, from which we have
all suffered so immensely, would be greatly decreased. I
therefore, advocate Mr. Currie's amendment.
Mr. Councillor LAI:I.E.—I think it is courteous, certainly,
to the warehouse proprietors to discuss these points • but I
wonder why they were not discussed at the onset of the busi-
ness. All these questions ought to have been discussed at
the very first, without consulting the warehouse proprietors
at all. The dock committee must know, that thus having
warehouses would, or they would fancy it would, do them
injury. It would be much better to have had a conference.
Instead of that, there is a great interest raised, and we shall
go to work as we did in the dock committee and corporation,
and we shall spend a great deal of money, and the corpora-
tion will have the satisfaction of paying all the costs. Many
out of Liverpool will seek to introduce clauses into this bill,
and they will come forward with these clauses. They will
say " Liverpool is by the ears," and they will not unite with
us without introducing clauses injurious to the port of Liver-
pool. Therefore, as to the bill lam perfectly indifferent. I
will pay my quota, and I don't care a straw about it. (A
laugh.)
Mr. Councillor DAVID HODGSON.—We are all agreed as
to promoting the interests of the town, but the question is
as to the mode, and it appears to me, that we are departing
from the principle to be settled, before we occupy ourselves
with the details, in connection with the project to be carried
on by the duck estate, or any other public body. It appears
to me, that we are departing from the principle which we
have acted on in private, as merchants. It has been upheld
that it was much more likely to promote the interests of any
concern to lease it to be managed by individuals, when the
capital and power of the individual was sufficient for the
object sought to be obtained. Now, it appears to me, that
on the present occasion, we all have taken it for granted,
that warehouses were wanted; I don't say they are not
wanted. We all seem to have got the impression, that
warehouses around the docks are best, I don't say they
are not the best. But it is very easy for a man to call
out for what costs him nothing, " give me this, and the other."
And I say unless we know perfectly the ground on which we
are proceeding, we are in the danger of injuring the property
of warehouse proprietors to an extent of which we are not at
all aware. and none of us can contemplate. lam not
prepaied to show that warehouses around the docks would
not be the best; but there are objections to them, and I think
the subject is not sufficiently before the town. The town is
rather taken by surprise with regard to selling them or re-
building them in a particular way ; bat the great principle
is, what is the necessity for the dock committee building these
warehouses at all? The best test of these warehouses being,
really wanted is to offer them to private capital ; if they are
wanted, let the value of the land be given; nut at £24os a
yard, but the real value of the land. and that will be given
if it be open to competition ; and that price being given for
the land will impose on those who build them a rent that will
keep them in their juxta-position. If the dock trustees can
sell land that will be very advantageous, I cannot see why
the dock trustees should lay down rules which shall govern
the warehouses of private individuals. They may say, "We
will sell land in large plots to companies, to be subscribed
for in the same way as railroads ; and then—what is ex-
ceedingly important—unite the care of private interests in
the management, and all those advantages that have been
stated are likely to occur, with regard to the extra care with
regard to fire. Look at the railway here: who can get in
but those authorised by the company ? They wiil admit
nobody there but those appointed to go there; and the order
and regularity they obtain is imposed by the necessity on
them of accommodating the public. And therefore, if it be
expedient for the docks to sell the ground for such pur-
pose, so the warehouses should be managed. I have not at
all doubted that the gentlemen of the Dock Committee could
manage affairs as well as any men, but they want the prin-
ciple of management; they have no personal interest. And
if warehouses are built around the docks as proposed, the
sound principle would be to call on the dock trust to lay
down a plan on which the warehouses shall be conducted;
to lay out portions of land, and to let that land be sold in
lots, the whole being under regulations strictly laid down,
but to be under the management of persons appointed by
those who had the interest ; and I can see no more difficulty
in that than in managing any other large concern; and
there is an exuberance of capital in Liverpool—capital seek-
ing employment. And if these warehouses will pay so well,
it cannot for a moment be doubted that any number of ware-
houses that can be wanted for the town will be provided by
private capital as soon as ever the arrangements are made
that are said to be so advantageous. I therefore cannot see
any propriety in becoming the managers of warehouse
property at ; I believe private individuals will ma-
nage as well as public bodies can manage ; but we
all agree that they can never manage successfully in
competition with private individuals. I think, there-
fore, we ought not by any means to sanction the meas
sure; and when Mr. Currie began his observations I was
in great hopes I should have been able to have concluded
with him. I think the dock committee should not attempt to
carry this measure till. thei subject has been more dis-
cussed. I cannot but think it is asingular position in which
Mr. Currie would call on the council to sanction measures
with the declaration that they will not carry out those mea-
sures, or are not pledged to-them. If it were a case of life
and death, why, necessity has no law, and there would be
no getting over it.' It does not appear to me why we should
not put it off to another session, and have time to discuss it :
because it cannot tie concealed, if you get a majority—if it
be a majority such as on a former occasion, is it not clear
that it will be carried to parliament with a very great oppo-
sition 1 say it is clear to me that they will be beaten. 13ut
whether or not, is it well with so small a majority to insist
on getting before parliament with whatever chances they
may have of success? I say we have no chance at all but
the certainty of embroiling us with a great many persons
who have large properties, and who consider they will be
injured by the measure. I believe we have a law that when
the dock committee or any body here is acting undet an act
of parliament, that it is considered so much the sanction of
the law of the land, that you cannot get over the authority
of that without two-thirds of the council. Now it appears to
me that that would be one of those cases which ought to be
made to apply; because, where we are going, to disturb pro-
perty which has been held under the assurance of an act of
parliament, I think it would be but fair'to the public inte-
rested, if the gentlemen felt that with that small majority
they ought by no means to act ; they ought really to feel
that two-thirds ought to be with them. I merely suggest
this, but I think nothing will be lost by waiting for another
session ; and, in the meantime, I think other measures
of great importance to the port might be brought for-
ward. There is the case of the landing waiters, and
dock occupation. There never has appeared to me, with
regarl to dock occupation, any sufficient reason why
dock-room should not be charged according to the ac-
commodation. Great complaint has been made that vessels
taking in cargoes very needlessly occupy space. So let it
be, but let that occupation be paid for accordingly. You
cannot go to a hotel anti take as touch room as you please
and only pay for a month as much as you pay for a day; nor
can any one go to a hotel and expect to be accommodated
on the same principle as he would at a common public-house.
Now it appears to me that vessels drawing a small draft of
water and a large draft are just paying the same. It appears
to me that if the dock quay was on principle established that
every quay berth have its price—l don't mean the same
price; 1 would have the docks have different prices according
to the accommodation they afford—and that they were paid,
not by the vessel for being there but at a daily price, that
you would find in a very short time that you would gain such
accommodation as you never bad; and in furtherance of this,
that it might-be tried to rent the docks.
Mr. Alderman ROBINSON.—I beg leave to rise to order;
it is a very long story.
Mr. Councillor DAVID HooGsoN.—l will bow to the
chair; on the question of dock accommodation I do not
think I am out of order; am 1 right.
'l'he MAY on.—l don't wish to interfere. We are going a
little out of the record; but anything on dock accommodation
is bearing on the question undoubtedly.
Mr. Councillor DAVID Hoonsox continued.-1 don't see
why the landing-waiters should be limited as to time ; I don't
see why they should-not work from sunrise to sunset; and I
don't see why the whole trade should become deciepid for
fear they should run away. And the landing-waiters would
certainly be ready to work so if paid according to what they
rem firm; and I think these two things would very greatly
facilitate the whole pi oceeding.—(hear, from Mr. Evans)—
without the building of warehouses. And the want of ware-
houses will be tested if any offer is made of the sites and no-
body will buy them, and if they are purchased then nobody
is injured. On these grounds I must vote against the amend-
ment as proposed.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBDP.N —I should be glad if I could
succeed in recalling the attention of the council to the ques-
tion really before them. (Hear, hear.) He thought no man
could have watched the course of the proceedings without
yielding to the suggestion of the chairman of the Finance
Committee. He thought that the very circumstance of the
great difference of opinion which prevailed evinced a want of
information, and showed that a further inquiry should be in-
stituted before they came to a decision. Besides, there were
several clauses in the abstract of the bill which he bad—he
did not know how they might be affected by other provisions
in the bill itself--vvhich were extremely vague. He would
point to one. The.tirst clause confers upon the dock trust to
let or demise the-lands to private individuals for the purpose
of building upon, u-bile the second conferred upon them the
power t 6 build themselves, and there was no one, as far as he
could find, to decide which Of the courses was to be taken.
He was for having the whole matter referred to a special
committee to report thereon; they would then have some-
thing specific and precise on which to decide ; and they
would then be hi a condition to go to parliament just for as
much as they desired, and no more. (Hear.) Ile should
give his vote in favour of the amendment.
Mr. COUncillor BIBBY (who spoke in so low a tone of
voice that we could only hear a part of What he said).—l take
leave to make a few observations. I should not have occasion
to make any remarks on it but there are some observations
connected with the warehousing system, not alluded to. I
believe that it is agreed on all hands that the Dock Estate
is the source of our wealth. As to the next question, as to
warehouses are they wanted or not, it is quite clear to me
that the warehouses are wanted, and the nearer the docks
the better; that is the general principle. As to the insuf-
ficiency of the warehouses for the present, or not, it is not
for me to say, As to the last year, there was a superabun-
dance of warehouse room ; but I believe it arose from the
existing state of excitement, owing to which. many dared
not risk their property to this coentry. Thinking as I do,
that warehouses would be a benefit to the town, and no in-
jury to the warehouse proprietors themselves, provided there
was no advantage given to these intended warehouses that
was not given to any private warehouse in the town. As
such, if they were to get the present dock built, as now
framed, with exclusive privileges and lasts, I as a ship owner
would give any money, or any price to have my ships dis-
charged quickly ; for why? because I should not have to
scud my clerk running for a week or a fortnight. And as
such, I should certainly advocate the principle if it is ex-
tended to'all private warehouses, and all warehouses that are
built. As to the land, I think it ought to be sold to the
warehouse proprietors, that they might have an opportunity
of investing their money. It is very well for the dock trus-
tees to have the management. As to fire, I have no appre-
hension about it. There has been fire used at the Duke's
dock ever since it was a dock, and at other docks, and I have
never seen any accident, nor do I aprrehend any. If these
warehouses were classified, putting into some, things that
were not combustible, and into others, things that were, there
would be no difficulties. I would have no exclusive privileges
extended to them.
Mr. Councillor WaLMESLEY.—Tt must be very pleasing to
the council to have practical opinions so clearly delivered as
those of Mr. Bibby. He is a gentleman so long acquainted
with the practical part of ships and warehouses of his own
that his opinion must have great weight with each of us.
Since this question was last before the council, as a member
of the dock committee, I have given to its consideration all
in my power; and as a member of the sub-committee to
as-
certain tise.-best.meaerssof .giving increased facllitr in dis-
charging vessels, I have had opportunity of viewing the
question in all its bearings; and I unhesitatingly declare
that the more I have dwelt upon it, the more am I convinced

of the utter worthlessness of every other project, compared
with that of building warehouses on the verge of the dock
quays. Whether such warehouses shall be built by the dock
trustees or by individuals is a very different question. As
one opposed to every thing like monopoly I should be dis-
posed to think it should be given to the public; but this is a
subject worthy of the deep consideration of the council. But
that warehouses should be built appears to me to be beyond
dispute. That land, that now is almost lying waste, and
which, if properly employed, would nearly double the present
dock accommodation, should be permitted to lie in its
present state merely because certain influential indi-
vidnals hold property in less eligible situations, or be-
cause certain
_less, influential individuals have got a
man in the corporation, is a proposition to me so mon-
strous that I cannot think how any man could be brought
to accede to it. With reference to the general interests
of the country or of this locality, it is equally certain that
the greatest facility should be given to commerce, that the
rates and charges should be at the lowest scale; that there
should be the greatest interchange between the grower and
consumer. Something has been said about political econ-
omy. The political economists will take this view of the
question; they will not ask of these proprietors to he con-
sulted, but what will most conduce to public good. In a local
point of view, the longer the question is delayed the more
difficult it will become. New interests are continually
springing up amongst us. Within the last three years the
rates upon the assessment of warehouses has been increased
at the rate of £12,000 per annum, giving 60 new warehouses
per annum, at the rate of £2OO per annum each. What I
would ask, are the warehouses that are now named, or are
now about to be proposed for dock accommodation, compared
with this fact ? The particulars I have just now taken out
of the rate. In 1835, the increase was £12,231 ; in 1836,
I £11,636; in 1837, £12,397, leaving an increase of £36,300
upon new warehouses, or about £12,000- per annum. Now,
Mr. Mayor, 1 think the opponents of the measure would do
very well to consider whether the interest of their own pro-
perty—the benefit of these pet warehouses, would not be best
promoted by giving increased facility to the commerce of the
port; and it would be also for them to bear in mind that new
docks are already springing up at our feet; that is, that we
have already a dock at the south end of the town. They
should bear also, in mind, that new interests may spring up
on both sides of the Mersey, for we cannot prevent this;
and the only means to prevent this competition is to give the
greatest facility to docks that we at present possess. Mr.
Mayor. so much has been said, and so many arguments have
been adduced in favour of this measure, that my mind is com-
pletely made up •on this question. I think there is not the
slightest necessity for further delay ; but should that be the
wish of the council, that there should be further delay, for
one 1 will withdraw the motion Mr. Evans has made, and
which I have seconded. I trust that the council will consider
this in its proper light: it is private interest against pub-
lic good; neither inure nor less (hear) ; and I trust
the opponents of a liberal town council will never have it in
their power to say, that either from fear of outward clamour,
or for private interest, they were induced for one moment to
swerve from that which I conceive in this question they owe
to the welfare of the country. (Hear.) Much has been
said on the question of fire. Now, as chairman of the watch
committee, I would just think it due to this council and to
the fire police to state, that had there been eater in Roberts-
street, where this great tire took place, the damage from the
fire would not have exceeded a thousand pounds. We took
three loads of water to that place—another would have put
out the tire. How would this be with warehouses on the
verge of the docks, where we have plenty of water? And I
must also extenuate the fire police as to any blame for the
want of water; because public notice and private notice bad
been given to the insurance offices that we would not be
answerable for any fire unless they laid mains to thatquarter.
I think this is due to the public, from whom we levy £12,000
a-year in support. lam satisfied that it is for the interest of
the public that warehouses should be built on the verge of
the dock-quays, and would say I would bring it to the issue
this day, and let gentlemen vote according to their con-
sciences. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor BIRCH.-1 have listened with the greatest
attention—with the utmost desire for information, to all the
arguments advanced, both in and out of the council, on this
important question ; and I declare, I am quite unable to dis-
cover anything which calls for or can justify this adoption of
a question involving consequences so extremely momentous,
and perhaps ultimately involving the injury of thousands.
Mr. Mayor, I think, judging from what I have heard, that it
has been satisfactorily proved, that there is really no neces-
sity for these warehouses; that no advantage whatever can
result from them commensurate with their attendant incon-
veniences, and certainly nothing that can compensate for the
immense destruction of property already invested in ware-
houses—that property which is called private, because it be-
longs to individuals, but which from its great extent ought
rather, I think, to be regarded as one of the most leading
public interests in the town. (Hear.) That property, allow
• me to say, in its aggregate amount, far exceeding the value
of the shipping, equal, if not exceeding the value of the rail-
ways connected with the town, and I will even go so far asto
say, surpassing the property of the whole of the banking
companies. Mr. Mayor, I am quite ready to admit, and it
cannot be denied, that London possesses an advantage over
Liverpool in respect to quickness; but those who think that
these advantages can be overcome by the erection of large
warehouses—of public warehouses, are proceeding on a very
erroneous conception. I have heard every thing that has
been said on the subject of the fire, and giving my friend Mr.
Evans great credit for the talent he always displays, I am
quite unable to concur with him. I think it will he found
in nine cases out of ten, that the risk of lire will
be found in exact ratio to the extent of the build-
ings where it is. We will take the fire of last week.
The goods on the south side of Roberts-street were
in six warehouses; three were destroyed, and then the police
succeeded in putting down the fire; but if that was in one
large and extensive building, 1 am sure no power on earth
would have stopped it. And with regard to building these
warehouses on the west side of the dock, it does appear to
me that warehouses in that situation must incur an increased
risk. A variety of opinions have been given on this subject;
I can only say I have taken the trouble to consult a gentle-
man who has the control of one of the oldest and wealthiest
fire offices in London, and he says, so far from any diminu-
tion of danger, it will be increased, it will be amazingly in-
creased between the shipping and the warehouses ; the risk
to warehouses from ships, and the risk to the ships from the
contiguity of warehouses, and to suppose under such circum-
stances that there can be the slightest reduction of insurance
is quite out of the qucetiuu. I nave been told by an intelli-
gent member of the Dock Committee that it is intended to
exclude cotton and a variety of other articles of a combus-
tible tendency. Now it is said that the private warehouses
already afford sufficient accommodation for cotton, and the
imports of cotton require nothing further: I quite agree to
that, sir. The private warehouses always have and always
will afford proper accommodation, but is this a proper argu-
ment to be used ? I f the erection of these warehouses is in-
tended to enable the merchant to land at these warehouses
and dispose of his goods at a considerable reduction of expen-
diture as to charges, what are we to think of an arrangement
which will exclude from the benefit of that reduction the
most bulky, the most valuable, and beyond all question, the
must important article of commerce which finds its way
here. (Hear.) Mr. Mayor, when this subject was discussed
some months ago, there were several gentlemen who sup-
ported it simply on the ground of its being so inconsiderable
an addition to the general warehouses. It was said that we who
opposed it were very unreasonable, as these warehouses were
only intended as an experiment, that they might give increased
facilities, and could not possibly injure the value of warehouse
property in any degree. It will be remembered that I and others
who held this opinion, said the mere fact of warehouSes being
built there would incur the necessity of building others.
What is the fact? That a bill is in progress for building
warehouses on the land on the west side of the Prince's Dock
affording space for sixty warehouses, and so with Salthouse
Dock and other docks; altogether we shall have warehouses
which will afford, I imagine, a very large experiment. It is
really high time for the council to say that that they will not
suffer such interference with the value of private property.
But if the council should be insensible to the demands of
those whose property is injured—if it should be left to the
just claims, surely we ought not to lose sight of what is due
to that noble estate which the municipal constituency has
put into our charge. That estate is given us for the benefit
of the whole town, and ought not to be disposed of for the
benefit of one class. Let me ask what has occurred with re-
spect to property since this subject was first agitated. We
know very well that capitalists have become distrust-
ful and called in their mortgages; that the value of land
and all other property around the docks has been very
considerably diminished ; and as regards the corporate
estate itself, we must observe that there have been no fines
for the renewal of leases for warehouses, and with very in-
considerable exceptions, no sale of land for warehouses,
though we know full welt that there is a large amount eligible.
Now I will not betray any confidence, and I do say that
these are considerations which we ought not to lose sight sof
in such an important question. It been stated by the last
speaker, and has been pretty boldly insinuated by others,
that the opposition to this measure proceeds from persons
whose interests alone prompts them to oppose it. Now I
must say with respect to myself, this is not the fact. It is
very true that I have within the last few years invested a
large property—l may call it a fortune, in the warehouses
of Liverpool; but surely that fact is not to expose me to the
charge of being instigated by selfishness if I stand here in
defence of the property which I have earned by the sweat of
my brow, and the greater part of which I hold under lease
from the corporation, which implies a guarantee that I shall
be protected in the possession of it. I have bought land in
the best situations in Liverpool, and 1 have paid correspond-
ing prices for that land; and if after giving my money, the
fair advantage is to he withheld from me, let me ask, is that
fair dealing? Mr. Mayor, I object to this measure as un-
necessary and unjust. 1 think it unjust to the public; I
think it is peculiarly unjust to the lessees of the corporation,
but it is still more unjust to those individuals who are still
under an obligation to erect warehouses, and who, fearing
this obligation, have sought to be relieved, but unsuccessfully,
from that obligation. I object to it aea'speculative good, and
certain of inflicting incalculable evil; and 1 trust that the
Dock Committee will pause before they commit themselves
on a question wherein half of Liverpool will appear arrayed
in hostility to the other half; and in which, those who really
possess the most permanent stake of property in the town,
may be driven to form an unnatural alliance against those
who ought to be their protectors. (Hear, hear.)
M. Alderman BARCLAY.—I wish to make some remarks
with regard to what the gentleman has said who has last ad-
dressed you. He seems to apprehend that the measure will
be destructive to the present warehouse property. Now, if
we look to the operation contemplated by these bills on the
table, we cannot go to Parliament till next Spring; we can-
not get our right till next year, and we cannot go into opera-
tion for a year and a half, and then by the provisions of that
act, we cannot bring more than one-' trial of these warehouses
into operation fur three years at least; so that it will be five
years before they are opened for use. During that time no
other warehouses will be built in Liverpool; nobody will
think of such a thing ; therefore the present warehouse hol-
ders will have the present warehouses for five years. At the
end of that time five new warehouses will be let into them.
It apears from Mr. Walwslev, that in the course of the last
year GO warehouses have been built annually.
Mr. WA LNISLEY.—I beg pardon.
Sir. Alderman BA act.AY continued.—l don't care if it is
thirty warehouses. At all events, it appears to nie that the
carrying of these bills through will be the greatest protection
that can arise, if their argument is worth a farthing. If this
bill passes, no new warehouses can be started. They will
have the monopoly of the warehouses for five years, and then
it will be by degrees that the warehouses are let in. The
dock has to be built first ; and welsnow what time it takes
to build a dock. And, therefore, to speak of these things as
an injury to the present warehouses—l wish to use no impro-
per expression—appears to me to be an absurdity.
Mr. Councillor Ea E.—Mr. Barclay, in his enthusiasm,
has forgot something, namely, three years in which the Whole
of the work is to lie completed.
Mr. Councillor SANDS had given his vote on a previous
occasion, under the conviction that the proposed or similar
warehouses were wanted, and that warehouses about the docks
would be of great advantage to the commerce of the town.
He was nearly of the same opinion now; but still he thought
that they ought not to be built by the Dock Committee, hut
by private individuals. He must vote against the amend-
ment.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, that close and impartial considera-
tion of this great and important question had more than
ever convinced him that. in order to facilitate the business
of the port, there existed no real necessity for the erection
of these warehouses. That difficulties did frequently pre-
sent themselves, to prevent the speedy discharge of the
cargoes of vessels, he did not pretend to deny; but he
would ask if there were no other remedy for the evil than this
favourite scheme—this darling bantling, if he might term it—
of the Dock Committee? Was that intended to be the
Morison's pill—(loud laughter) the grand sne6lfieWhich4waS
-effectually to eradicate ali thesdisviAisttnt.froinplaints apper-
taining to the trade and commerce of the port? Could no
other panacea be discovered for the removal of the obstruc-
tions and impediments to despatch, commencing with the ma-

ny vexatious and annoying regulations of the Custom-house
and ending with the very imperfect and inconvenient manner,
in which the porterage department of business was usnalli,,
conducted in the town ? He imagined that a much more
airii
ple and less costly remedy might be applied. In the first place,
let those merchants who were in the habit of receividg andu-
ally large consignments of goods and produce, agree `to
about one uniform system of porterage, consenting, for the • -
sake of general convenience and despatch, to forego the pro= • ,
fits at present accruing to them from the difference atising, •.%
between the day or weekly wages which they paid and the --
rates per package which they were legally entitled to cherge4',..
In the next place, if the exclusive privilege sought to b.e.ctiPt,-
Mined by the dock trustees,_under the 11th head 9f the prst-,, .7
posed warehouse bill, empowering them, after a reasonaWeist„
time, to store unentered goods, were at once granted tiVtol,o,v
shipping interest of the port generally, there would not'elfish
even the shadow of an excuse for entering into a project
which, if carried into effect, would entail certain ruin, anclC:,,,ol
misery upon hundreds of individuals. He would. reniark,
with respect to Mr. Alderman Evans's strictures on his frieedY,„
Mr. Holme's letter in last Monday's Albion, that he nide!t i'44l
regretted that his friend (not being a member of cauneil).
could not be there present to defend himself in person.
Hii
would, however, no doubt, do so through the medium o'ooll'4',

public press. .
Mr. Alderman Evans.—l believe I have a prescriptive ...,
right to reply to the various observations that have heen -
made; and di occupy your time, I know not how it can:be •. -
better employed than on an occasion that is admitted-on all- •
hands to be of the highest and most pre-eminent importance.. .... •
And 1 observe, sir, in a number of speakers there is a recur-
rence to fires. As no allusion has been made to what I said
of Mr. Holme, give me leave to say that 1 left a- most mates, ..
rial item out, which concerns the weight which some gentler
man's testimony ought to have on the question.. .I am exs
ceedingly indebted to Mr. Smith. I maintain, tnis Mi.
Iloline for many years was one of the most strenuous advo-
cates of the docks; there is a plan of his extant now ;-•-,-
" the story is written in most choice Italian" -and making " -
a stack of warehouses to work by machinery running be -,•T -
tween them. Now, sir, there were warehouses, which from '
their height and depth would have exceeded all the ware's'
houses we are proposing now. Upon the further arguing
that point, you well know the degree of consideration. •
Mr. Holmes had for the warehouse holders, 'vt.imbSe . '
case he advocated at the expense of the Dock Comthittee.'l7 '
He charges us with offering measures of gross injustice. .i ;,
asked him—for this latter conversation was with :me--if ~-
he would give the warehouse owner's notice ? .What wasthat
notice? It was seven years. Now, sir, I have stated the
matter merely because Mr. Holmes was a man of great iniltr., •
ence; and as he came into the press with his 'name he has •
given me a right to let down that influence upon the question,
which I now endeavour to do. Now, sir, With regard to five; •
it has been mentioned here by several gentlemen if the .
danger is in view, I refer to London and the four- greatest
establishments they have there for 30 years. We have heard:, . '
that there was a fire in St. Katherine's Dock. Yea. it is ad- .
omitted that you can prevent fire, but we can have a facility , ,
of putting it out. When the new Dock Committee came--
into office, we found extremely stringent laws abotit steaus,.,„
boats. Upon reflection, we have greatly mitigaled them, and.
removed them; because it happened that fire was their ere- -
merit we were always on the look out to repress it; and it.is: -4.1
very characteristic of a public body acting on a princiPle • •:,,,,.
of officers going in and nut, so that the men could not have
, ,
a pipe or anything of that sort, it is a natural ciansclusiou
that they could not have a fire. But I refer to these London
establishments for so long a time without any fires, and then: •
I refer again to the rates of insurance, after which I would
~
have expected that not one word more would have been said. ' •
However, my friend over the way—(Mr. Birch)-1 cdtild—
not expect the compliment of a written speech, or that hies
would have run the hazard of interrupting the threads ofitnnt. .
of deference to what I might have said. It reminds7she'of 5a
quotation used by Mr. Canning, who explained- 'thrit
it was not meant in any way to give offence, and I retteatitt•
exactly the same spirit. I believe it is from Horace*;-itny:••-•
friend will correct me there (great laughter.), - I ant' gnirig•,,, 't .
to give you the translation, for my memory would fail me in .-, '•
the original,
" Destroy the web, the prophecy's in vain,- • s:',,,
The creature's at his dirty work again.".
Therefore, whatever proof—if an angel from heavenzeame
down—we have this eternal fire up. (Hear and laughter:'- 5,,,i
Now, sir, with regard to the expressions. We will- arrive itti•:!,- -1
you presently (looking at Mr. Earle, amidst much laughter.4--',4
I assure you I have no ill feeling against any of you.-.:Willis 't
regard to the expressions that have been cast outsltyz.tul! a s
friend Mr. Currie, I apprehend that even if we did,„pptlits,sac,
the whole of the hill, if we carried an insigniticant.fiagn*K.'
that we carry the expenses; and I should think,%th.ntl.4,7%:/:;
Dock Committee, in a good spitit,- would acquiesce iii Naive .-;
arrangement, Well, I shalt not for a moment dWeliciftT., ,--a-
Brown's motion of monopoly. 'The monopoly I cannot fincl,-.;,1
in the thing; because, after all, what we want to have is a,it ~,,,
insignificant fraction. I don't suppose that the wh010•.,;n7f,,,,,,,;
the warehouse 4 per cents. are much more. And;y4in: Qbs ... ;
serve, what we want is, to have it in the hands of Ike ps4 :,,.
Committee; for it is merely in order to make a Cantiolils,," -
experiment in hands where any error may he rer4rfibli.2;‘-"
not to commit the quays and land of the doe.k. all `at_rirWits',".,
that Liverpool being in the peculiar situation of hishi)elttost.
docks public and the warehouses private, we mightilidkekPtl4
very formidable—a very great mistake in letting. theism li
once. We have no kind of affection for warehotC.es.forviareAV"
house sake. We have asked discretion that we may let tfrkiitli*'-:
out, and that the council might rely upon it; but th4y;rietol" --
not rely upon it, for the proceedings, whedeyer'We'tillidalt.e
that option, as it was resolved, would crime beforelfie•eattivoif
cil, but I should say that discretion would be received- witill:
that understanding also. Now, sir, the monopoly ninths's- s
exists now, is the only monopoly that I can see, and in order 7y••
to just let you know of its existence, you have had a gradtiak
advance from 12s 6d to £lO or £l2 for land exactly likeland„ ::
used for agricultural uses, and you will find a constantlyin--.,•
creasing rent for land near the docks; and then that rentavill-s •
cause the occupation of warehouses higher up and in. wow , s'
places. Therefore we are arrived at that 'point, that •r.
It is absolutely necessary for the safety of the mercettile. --,.
public for us to bring this land into play; that would regulate.
the higher warehouse rent, which would act on commerce;,-,
How long are we to trail up the bill, and look at those-happy, .
levels that have been made at such great expeinie. ~And,. ;
now, my friend here (Mr. Birch) is an excellent- sPortss• .4'.
man, and a very great portion of his life latteily 'has ,been.
spent on the moors, and he has got a vitiated taste,• and lie:.
would like to carry those delightful wastes all round the
docks ; hut that is not all, he wishes to perpetuate it. It ii
a kind of Moloch under his feet, now and hereafter. if it
does happen that Liverpool will give rise to more ;Nicks; still
there will be these obstacles offered: you may make thednekti; ',
but no warehouses. You have heard what Mr. Walrnslesi his' '
calculated as an average increase of warehouses, no less:thin '"
sixty a year. Now that should give confidence—shottldiet the"'
warehouse owners know that there is a margin in'titerprtani-
and her prosperity is unbounded, and that nurriber tor.tfew'.:;
private warehouses will be required, and absorbed in thecen-;. -
merce of Liverpool ; that is sure if you have got faith in it:•
Now, Sir, leasing the lands; we have not the least -objectibn'''
to lease out lands, but we wish to know our way; • Vre-Wetfid-a'
not let here a warehouse and there a waiehouse to individos,
alt, but we would let the.m to companies. 1 want tliesy,s.le.,,t
matic arrangement of the company ; with all my heart' sould ;
lease lands out when ever we got beyond the .first experimeaat ;4,,
and 1 would give in the .srst experiment also. Now, ‘S'ilb.rcr ..,4
gard to the corporate estate, 1 really had no idekteltatAltalt.
would be alluded to: as if that corporate estate in.itsanag(l?,-,
nude and in its division is not identified with the yskolie,teArases
and with the community, and will rise or fall with the pre...‘-,•s
perity of the town of Liverpool. I have no.need, Sjr, to faater,,,,;.
much more uoon •that; but there were sotne.other.yer4s
marks made by Mr. Birch. He we hive "idjursi 4414,
ruin involved for themselves;" that is going on the suppciaj.
lion that the whole of the twelve hundred warelattseg, -
must be left idle. That I leave to itself. - Bot I would ber;
glad to know whether we are to allow a repressive Omni Co-
be cast over the future state of Liverpool—if we weretoinake
so complete a sacrifice of the present and also of po.stetity to' .
what I pronounce the baseless and perfectly idle 'apprehen-• :
sions of the warehouse owners. Let them proye theirsLesiei; ;
let that lie open, not the working of it; but not to interfelse to .
prevent Liverpool getting hold of a machine which will exalt'
her at once and with speed over all her .rivals. Now there=-
marks of Mr. Birch, which 1 have heard with no little Pain-
and grief, because I should be certainly sorry that upon re-
flection he would let that escape him—that he would confirm
it ; and that is that his local patriotism should sit so light'
upon him, as the mere apprehension of a small teduction•Or;
if any almost from his income, should lead him into ,611..';
alliance with the enemies of the mercantile town of -Liver-. '•
pool. These were matters which Mr. Birch- bas .orged"
which were all urged at the last meeting in every. respect.'
And 1 have only one more remark with regard-to Mr. Hodg= '
son. Although he was eloquent, and made a great many :
remarks, 1 rejoiced that it ail ended that he was an advocate
for the warehouses—that he admittel that -undoubtedly the
working of the docks in connection with the ware-houses,
would be the beau ideal of every thing. Now,- sir,, we. have
only been taunted with our small majority on the last need- s
sion. I have studiously avoided that on the former occasions
and would now—alluding to gentlemen's interests„ l'sir; -it
was mentioned to me by one of the most respectahle' and.,
most intelligent men out of doors, that he positively, consi•-;
dered that those who were interested in warehouses-ought,
not to vote at all. And if we hear of our small majority: avid,
if you will analyze the minority- upon that principle, I am-
sure that the majority, however small, will be greatly_ ens
larged. - • - - •
Mr. Cu Tie's amendment was then- put to the vote. The
following was the division :—For the amendment,23,namely--
Councillors—W. Preston, J. Mellor, J. Woollright, J.
Priestley, H. Hornbv, W. Lassell, J. Carson, T, Morecroft,
V. Higgins, 'l'. Blackburn, E. Segar, and W. W. Currie.
Aldermen—J. flornby, W. Brown, T. Leath,om, ,G., Holt,
R. Benn, E. Evans, J. Moon, 'l'. Bulley, T. B. 13arelay,,,G.
Robinson, and the mayor. -- '• • -
Against it, 31, namely—
Cuuncellors—J. Holmes, J. Heyworth, D. Hondgson.' C.
Logan, R. Houghton, E. Harvey, W.. Shand, 7c.l.l..avyden,
J. Barton, B. Frankland, H. Holmes,: T.. Sandsi: J.'.NiNtlies''.
ley, C. Birch, J. Bibby, C. Lawrence, J. Cooper; J.N.Woncla
W. Earle, Jun., J. 'Mason, J. S. Leigh, J, Sinith,,G. 11-
Lawrence. J Cropper, jun., F.. Jordan, and G. Rantsden.
Aldermen—T. Booth, C. H. Jones, 'I. Ilolt, W. P. Freme,
and 0. Heyworth. „ ...„ • • .
Absent—Messrs. W. Thornhill, T. Bolton, Rr .Bright, .T.,
Lawrence, H. Lawrence, 'l'. Brocklebauk, 'l'. Cogtan, J•
Platt, and W. M. Duncan. - ,
Mr. W. EA It LE then seconded the amendment which bad
been proposed by Mr. Booth.
Ar'et some slight discussion, that amendment was put to
the vote, and was carried by a majority ofswo, the numbers
being 28 for, and 26 against.it. The voting was as-follosti:
—For the amendment— . .
-
Councillors—J. Holmes, J. Hey-worth, D. •Hodgsnn. C.
Logan, R. Houghton, W. Shand, W. Preston; Jsßarton,".
B. Frankland. H. Holmes, T. Sands, C. Birch, C. Lao"'
rence, J. Cooper, J. N. Wood, W. Earle, jun., J.- Mason,-
J. S. Leigh, .1. Smith, C. H. Lawrence, J. Cropper- jull•s-
F. Jordan, and G. Ramsdell. .
Aldermen—T. Booth, C. H. Jones, J. Moon, W. P. Freme,`
and 0. Heyworth. •: • - • • -
,
Against it— . • • .. •
Councillors—E. Harvey, C. Rawdon, J.Alellor.4: Walrus'
ley, J. Woolright, J. Priestley. H. Hornby. J. Bibby,' W.
Lassell, J. Carson, T. Morecroft, V. Higgins, T. Blackburn;
E. Segar, and W. W. Currie. .
.
Aldermen—J. Hornby, W. Brown, T. Leathorn, G.,1101t;
R. Benn, E. Evans, T. Ilolt, T. Bulley,-.T:13., l3axclayo3%
Robinson, and the Mayor.. 1-.... .. ~, dris;-..a1• to.,:aJiti.). :=, ' .?
Absent, as before. - • -.- :„. . ~,f. •,,c -..-. ,s tooo.‘ '-"
After the result of the voting had been. announced,: ,Alts‘:
Evans remarked that there was nothing discouritiiitif itoiff
as there were seven, absent membersin favour °Utile-0108F'
sure. Another gentleman observed,.that'arnong-thas:absen''!,
tees were two opponents to it. . ,•.::: • .. .- ,
There was considerable confusion in the council-rent°,
the members congregating in- knots, aottvehernentireot
versing; and the Mayor was unable. to bring them to'ontle,r!:
to pass the Finance Committee proceedings... _ >.
Mr. Alderman Evatss.—lt will be fur the eorporation,4"
make docks, for 1 am sure the docks will not. • Yoll* 015 f
lead a horse to water, but he won't drink. . .... .:,,,' ' ','
Mr. Councillor HENRI. HOLMES.— No,. no„the.-.PO
Cominittee must make docks.
It was intimated that there was a doubt whether the I)°c
Committee would proceed with the bill at: all, on 4 tbil's,a.
principal portion of it was rejected. The proceeding*€ll44l7;
Finance Committee were not decided upon, and the,0....i.„0"
cil adjourned till Tuesday, the 30th October, as-4,,Qu4"47,
Council. Time adjournment took place at foor sk'clgeke""':
As the members of the Council were re.titing,M.fsh.Al;4;et.'
man Evans was heard addressing some member ~w.;,..„" • ,:
vehemence,—" You are the greatest traitor I', eitgr "",,,,_l""*.,
This sally was followed by considerable laughter ft•ottal,..
at the members. - • i .'"-- •
. • '•. - * •Thequotatilm is ftoin•ThaPess..,......,a;) .-.'s- '...;
--:,
aoik yet'
mentioned Literary Gazette says that' the Earl of Bin i- Ir t
ri,„yel'
mentioned as likely to be appointed-.pres.di efit-al-tba
Society, in the room of the Duke of StMex•