The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-12-10 00:00:00

MEETING OF THE DOCK COMMITTEE

7 The weekly meeting of the Dock Committee was held
sesterdaY• The following members were present,—Messrs.
t lds, (chairman,) Horsfall, Barclay, Holt, Holmes,
Mellor Smith, Bulley, Aiken, Chapman, Evans, Moly-
-44, Nicol, Ripley, and Tobin.
ERECTION OF SHEDS.
h„l:he SURVEYOR (who was absent through severe indis-
"gltion) sent in a report, which was presented by the sub-
ct'eUnittee of works, of the number of lineal yards of sheds
Serected upon the dock quays within the last twelve months.
report was made in compliance with a motion made at the
:4 meeting by Mr. Chapman. The document stated, that
I"via December, 1840, to May, 1841, there had been 127-i
V, erected, and from May, 1841, to December, 1841,
1 Yards, making a total of 530 yards, within the last
"elve
7950. months. The cost of these had been £l5 per yard,

THE SHIP LADY FALKLAND.
fol The SOLICITOR submitted the case which he had laid be-
, Counsel, on the question whether the committee had
iVver to return Messrs. Rankin, Gilmour, and Co. the dues
upon their ship the Lady Falkland. The opinion of
a_!sars. Cresswell and Crompton was, that under the earlier
11',.1! relating to the affairs of the docks the ship was liable,
01!°er the circumstances, to pay dues, and they did not think
was exempt from them by the 100th section—that the
runittee had no discretionary power as to exemption from
dues, and that they would not be justified n returning
`4e money paid in this instance.
A:Mr. ATKIN observed that the committee had only taken
;74 Opinion out of deference to opinion out of doors, but it
boa! clear from the act of parliament that the committee had
'Power to return the money.

The
FROM TIIE FINANCE COMMITTEE.
,rhe CHAIRMAN stated that he had received a communi-
Vic% from the Finance Committee of the Town Council
i!e4 the 3d December, containing an application from
•i'llam Hughes, for many years in the service of the com-
mitteereaitee as a cleaner of graving docks, for another situation,
Having been removed in consequence of the alterations
510 w being made. A testimonial from the south Harbour-
aster accompanied the application.—Referred to the Sur-
-4YOr, with a recommendation to employ the applicant upon
tit occasion.
jebe CHAIRMAN said, he had received a note from Mr.f
vfrge Hall Lawrence, chairman of the Finance Committee
p` the Town Council, requesting the Dock Committee to
leansider the matter, proposed a few days ago, as to the
'iteration of Seacombe slip and the building of the slip
ZP_Posite the intended new dock. The corporation slip at
'ffenabe would cost very little, as compared with the other.
tifkr. AIKIN had intended to call the attention of the com-
p,!ttee to this subject, because it arose out of a question he
Cjt Yesterday in the Town Council, to know what progress
the Finance Committee. The reply of the chairman of the Fi-
,.'ffe Committee was that they could not move in the matter
*tit they had received a reply from the Dock Committee.
f believed that no definite proposal had been made to the
Dock Committee; but at an interview between the Finance
tamittee and the Dock Commiitee, it was mentioned that
the Finance Committee would be glad if such an arrange-
' eta acould be made as this ; that they should proceed to
Ong tecute the work at their own expense upon the understand-
that hereafter, when the Dock Committee came to make
t!fir slip as required by the last act of parliament, they would
ear half the expense of one, if the Dock Committee would,
Vrie meantime, bear half the expense of the other. He
. Aikin) had tnken the liberty o f saYing, as the Seacombe
,1) was that of theecorporatone, corporation, it was their business. and
„"e Dock Committee ought not to make an arrangement so
41nplex as this. Hereafter it might become a question
*hether the new works would not enable the Dock Com-
mittee to make the works without any slip at all, which
;;3ald save the expense ; but when the period came to make
e Slip, then would be the time to open this very difficult
bestion with regard to them. He need not tell the corn-
-I.4ittee t this clause was introduced into the act contrary
to thew hes of the delegates from it, and, as they believed,
etantrary to just and sound principle. Therefore, he would
I„l,°flely recommend the Dock Committee to decline enterin
t 0 the
any arrangement, and to instruct their secretary to write tile Finance Committee, saying that this committee did
not feel authorised to enter upon it negociation.
Mr. HO&SFALL said the Dock Committee must have a
not
proposal from the Finance Committee, for it would
:iat do to pass a general resolution upon a matter of which
oleY were not informed. His own impression of the liability
this committee was somewhat different to that of Mr.
ii:1:111, and perhaps it was more necessary on that account
t the matter should be laid formally before them.
Mr. EVANS did not think the Dock Committee could have
:111Y definite idea of the question, until it was brought for-
's,.lly before them.
ieM rer. AIKIN said that what he had
the stated was the fact, and
r,peated the proposal made on part of the Finance
'fnunittee. He objected to it on the ground that the Fi-
bailee Comm asking the
hereafteromm theyittte
wouldpay
half the expense of the slip, when, in his belief, it was their
meantime
in justice and equity to bear the whole expense. In the
'',antime the Dock Committee had nothing to do with the
l'esent slip, that was the business of the town, and the
Duck Committee neither ought, nor had they the power to
enter into any such arrangement. With all deference to Mr.
41_1%1414 he begged to repeat his suggestion.
Mr. HORSFALL rather differed with Mr. Aikin as to the
lability of this committee. His impression was, that both
pre liable to a certain extent. The act of parliament, he
°tight, said it should be done by one party or the other.
if Tr. AIKIN said it was so, but with the understanding that
• ...Suould be matter -of arrangement hereafter.
Mr. EVANS suggested that the committee should not give
Ideflnite answer now, but wait another week, and he should
.7Fornmend the members, in the mean time, to make them-
'elves 'acquainted with all the circumstances.
„ Mr. HORSFALL also thought it would be much better for
the
la committee to decide when the subject was formally before
em.

1.1:1; further consideration of the matter was then deferred
%unit
, a communication has been received from the Finance
`"%rnittee, stating what they are prepared to do.

APPLICATIONS FOR ACCOMMODATION.
Messrs. M'Artbur and Co. applied for a berth to be set
Dart for the use of their Glasgow traders, at the north-east
"rlner of George's Dock.—De"lined.
sei4essrs. Todd, Naylor, and Co. applied on behalf of them-
). 'e3 and others, for the lease of about 2000 square yards of
rdid, to the nortlrof Messrs. Cato- and' Co.'s slip and-ship-
td
ng yard. for the purpose of erecting machinery for
Crushing and sampling copper ore for the market. This
ql.l3lication had previously been submitted by the sub-com-
raittee of work, to the surveyor, who reported that 2000
Yards of land could not be granted on any part of the dock
eftate, unless it might be at the east end of the south basin.
Referred to the sub-committee of works.
An application from Messrs. Prescot and Mongredier for
Permission to erect a shed or warehouse upon the vacant
htround on the east side of Queen's dock, was declined.
ese gentlemen were subsequently introiuced, and laid their
ease before the committee, but with the same result.

SEWERAGE MAP.
_ The commissioners for paving and sewering„ presented the
~,? ultnittee with a copy of their map, showing the sewerage of
:pe town. A letter of thanks was ordered to be written to
tae commissioners.

DAMAGE TO THE BELL BUOY.
Messrs. Rankin, Gilmour, and Co. apprised the corn-
-I.l,littee that the damage done to the bell buoy by their ship
re Importer," (not " Reporter," as we stated in our
Sat), was purely accidental.
Mr. IIoLT remarked that the weather was perfectly calm
at the time.—Referred to the sub-committee for the depart-
tnent of the marine surveyor.

SIR. WALKER AND MR. CUBIT, ENGINEERS

•
The CHAIRMAN announced, that in compliance with the
resolution of the last meeting he had written to Mr. Walker
and Mr. Cubit, the eminent engineers, inviting them to Li-
v terpool to give their opinions upon the respective plans for
he intended increase of dock accommodation.
The SECRETARY read letters from these two gentlemen,
stating that they would confer with each other, and give the
!'°oritinittee the earliest intimation of the day they would be
lu Liverpool.
After a short conversation it was resolved that the en-
gineers should meet the committee of works in the first in-
stance, and afterwards state their opinions before the general
committee.

SHIPBUILDING YARDS

Nlr. CHAPMAN asked whether anything had been done
'with regard to the applications from some of the shipbuild-
ers who had been dispossessed ? He observed from a state-
'bent of the surveyor that there might be available land at
the east corner of the boundary dock. It struck him that
the land to the south of Messrs. Cato's yard, which was now
ecupied merely with timber for the dock-yards, might be
oetter employed. Being next to the river it was valuable,
511 d if the timber were removed from it, it might be made
iivailable for the accommodation of some of.:the shipbuilders,
Who certainly had a prior claim to it, if it could be granted.
It Was a very great hardship upon them to be altogether
deprived of yards.
The CHAIRMAN said the subject had been brought before
the Sub-committee of Works, but as the Surveyor was un-
well the consideration of it was deferred. He was still un-
well, and, therefore, could not be consulted.

INVICSTIGATION BY THE REVENUE COMMISSIONERS

Mr. Rug,Er, before the committee separated, wished to
make a few remarks upon a subject which was now occupying
a great deal of the public attention. The committee were
aware that Lord Granville Somerset was coming here to-
morrow, (Friday) Saturday, and Monday, for the purpose
of inquiring into the best means of facilitating the trade of
the port. All the mercantile associations had received invi-
tations to attend upon his lordship, and to make such sug-
gestions to him as might be likely to lead to an improvement
in the trade of the port. The other day, in the East India
Association, he (Mr. Ripley) propoed that the warehouse
question should be mooted, as one that would facilitate the
trade of the port more than any other. All other questions,
nn his opinion, were of minor importance compared with that.
It had been, he believed, objected to in some of the other
associations ; but upon that point the East India Association
were unanimous. He suggested that a deputation from this
entnmittee should wait upon Lord Granville Somerset, to
Point out the advantages of the new system to be introduced,
la order that, upon some future occasion, if the committee
had to pray for additional accommodation in warehouses,
they might hare the support of government, without which
they would probably fail. It was now admitted, even by its
°Pponents, that the warehouse system would facilitate gene-
ral ; and he thought they ought to wait upon Lord
tsranville Somerset to point out its advantages.
The CHAIRMAN said he had that morning spoken to the
mayor (as we understood) upon this subject, and asked whe-
ther, in his opinion, the Dock Committee ought not to repre-
sent to Lord Granville Somerset the propriety of making
aome alterations in the mode of discharging vessels, by pay-
ing the landing waiters not at present but by the piece, as
they were paid some twenty years ago.
Mr. BARCAAY said they had been paid by the piece
within the last few years. _ _

Mr. FIOLMES explained that at first they were paid by fees,
then half by fees and half by the work done, and now they
were paid entirely by a fixed salary.
Mr. lIHRSFALL said that very great efforts were made at
°ile time to restore the old system, but there was a strong
feeling on the past of the government that it exposed the re-
eilue to some risk, and, therefore, they would not concede
It. It certainly worked well, and if it could be restored it
110uId be to the advantage both of the revenue and the port.
The CHAIRMAN observed that, in his opinion, it would be
equal to a new dock.
Mr. AIKIN said the old system was not without its disad-
vantages. It was in practice when he was a boy ; the ex-
ninle then set to boys was exceedingly bad and dangerous,
811(1 he was apprehensive that if the system of fees was re-
Stored it would bring back with it the same habits. He sug-
gested that if the landing-waiters were at work by day-light
great deal more work would be done. But if lie were re-
quired to appear before the commissioners, he would trace
every one of the complaints now made up to one source;—
n
,c,ether delay, plunder, or damage—all arose in consequence
°f being obliged to weigh upon the quay.
Mr. HoRSFALL said this was an important point.
Mr. EvANs thought it might be very well to make a lodg-
int upon the counter-scarp of Lord Granville Somerset's
431,,°,1, and win his first affections.
It
Some further conversation followed, at the end of which
was resolved that a deputation be appointed to wait upon
uhe commissioners. By a subsequent resolution the Chair-
-4". Mr. Ripley, Mr. Evans and Mr. Aiken were appointed
the deputation.—The committee then separated.

THE EXCHEQUER BILL CASE.—On Tuesday Mr. Phillips
4t !plied to the Recorder for the discharge of Rapallo forth-
‘vlth• After a considerable conversation between the coun-
sel, the recorder, and the solicitor to the treasury, the appli-
cation wasacceded to, and the prisoner was discharged.