The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-07 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS.

An adjourned meeting of the town council was held on
Wednesday, to consider the bill prepared by the committee
for the affairs of the estate of the Liverpool docks, pursuant
to the resolutions of that committee, adopted by the council
at their meeting onthe 2d of October last," and as a special
council upon the following subjects :-
I.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr.
Henry Lawrence :
" That the resolution of the council of the al Octoberlast,
so far as relates to the erection, by the dock trustees, of ware-
houses on the dock quays, be rescinded; and that 'the
for empowering the dock trustees to build•such warehouses;
and all reference thereto, in the preamble :(If the intended
bill, be omitted."
2.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr. Al-
derman Booth :
" That those recommendations of the Finance Committee,
on the subject of the intended warehouses: on the quays of
the docks, which were adopted by the council on the Bth of
March last, be made part of the provisions of the new dock
act."

THE QUEEN'S MARRIAGE.
The MAYOR stated that as the Que
en's marriage \-,'n••: an-
nounced in the Gazette to take place on the 10th instant; the
council would perhaps have no objection that the question of,
the festivities to take place on that day should first be con-
sidered. The committee had then prepared a report, which
the town-clerk would read.
The TOWN-CLERK read the following report :
" That, in the opinion of the committee, her Majesty s
marriage would be well celebrated by the application of money
out of the surplus revenue in aid of the undermentioned pub-
lic charities—such assistance being much needed at present,
and such as would clearly operate for the public benefit of
, the inhabitants.
"That, with this impression, the committee submit the
following rccornmendation, viz.:—
" That the mayor, aldermen, and burgesses, by the coun-
cil, should grant £5OO to the Infirmary and the Northern
and Southern Hospitals, the Dispensaries, and the Provident
District Society ; and, in the event of the public subscribing
to the same charities not less than £2OOO, the donation of
the corporation be augmented to £looo—the whole amount
from the corporation and the public being to be divided as
follows :
" The Infirmary and Northern Hospitals, one-third ; the
Dispensaries,
one-third ; and the District Provident,Society,
one-third ; and the subscriptionTheing to be closed by the
meeting of the council in April.
" That, in addition, the committee would recommend that
the council should direct application to be made to the.row-
mittees of the Royal Institution and Botanic Gardens, that
these institutions may be open to the public on the auspicious
day ; that the bells should be rung ; guns flied ;' and colours
hoisted on the public buildings, and en the vessels of all.
nations in our docks and river—to effect which, the neces-
sary application to parties, and other measures, will have to-
be *directed ; and that the royal arms should in the evening
of the day be put up, illuminated, over the entrance to the
Townshall.
" That the committee further recommend, that as the
mayor has most liberally determined to give a ball in the
evening to upwards of 1500 persons—a measure calculated
not only to give satisfaction to the parties invited, hut to
afford business and employment to a portion of the indus-
trious classes—his worship, in addition to his ordinary may-
oralty provision, have the disposal, for the occasion, of wine
to be provided by the corporation. •
" That it he further recommended, that addresses to the
Queen and Prince Albert, from the mayor, aldermen, and
burgesses, under the counnou seal, should be presented;
and that the mayor should be requested, at the proper time,
to proceed to London on the occasion, accompanied by two
members of the council to be appointed by them." •
Mr. CURRIE moved the adoption of the report.
Mr. H. HOLMES seconded the motion.
Mr. Alderman FREME thought that, on such an occasion
as the Queen's marriage, a sum (say of £500) ought to be
granted to the mayor, to distribute in- whatever way he
should think fit—amongst others, to entertain the prisoners
in the borough gaol, and the inmates of the workhouse. By
doing so they should raise the character of the mayor, and
by that means serve themselves. If the sum of £5OO were
thought too much, he should have no objection to lower the
sum to £3OO. Mr. Freme concluded by moving, as au ad-
dition to the report, that the sum of £3OO he granted to the
mayor, to be disposed of at his discretion.
Mr. COGLAN seconded the motion. He should like to
see the day a day of genuine festivity amongst the lower
classes.
Mr. ROBINSON was not satisfied with the amount pro-
posed to be given, and proposed that £l5OO should be given
to the charities, the funds of which, particularly those of the
Infirmary, were in a very lamentable state. •
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES observed that, if the £5OO were
..•

granted, with an understanding that the mayor would' iiifi
t pose of the surplus to the public charities, that would obviate
all objection, at least on his part. •
Mr. BOLTON agreed in thinking that the prisoners in the
borough gaol and the inmates of the workhouse should be
regaled, and the entertainment might also be extended to the
children in the corporation schools. One hundred pounds,
however, would be sufficient to do all that was necessary.
The workhouse, it ought to be remembered, was the parish
business.
Mr. D. HODGSON thought that, by entertaining the pri-
soners, those unfortunate persons were induced to look upon
it as a right on other occasions, instead of considering the
entertainment as springing from a feeling of commiseration
for their situation. He referred more particularly to the
criminal part of the inmates of the gaol.
Mr. COMM: opposed the amendment of Mr. Freme, and
said, what was recommended by the report was sufficient for
the occasion, although he was as anxious as any one that the
occasion should be commemorated in a manner worthy of the
town. As far as a small sum for the regaling of the paupers
and the prisoners iu the borough gaol._ he thought that the
committee would not object to go. The sum of £5OO had
been termed paltry by Mr. Robinson; but the council were
asked to say, that if the public would come forward,-they
(the council) would subscribe an additional £5OO. This he
considered an excellent method for inducing those to sub-
scribe who would otherwise have kept their money in their
pockets. A committee would be appointed to go round to'
those wealthy persons whose names did not figure in thelists
of subscribers to the public charities (of whom there were
many) and they would be ashamed to hold back. If £3OOO
were obtained, that would be a very handsome sum. ,
Mr. HuGLi HORNET, should certainly' oppose the, aulentlz
=tits both of Mr. Freme and Mr. Robinson:: -may Otatt
offered a very handsome sum to the charities, whilst they'
had, at the same time, been actitated with a due regard'‘Co?
economy. He had no objection to the prisoners- in the
borough gaol and the inmates of the workhoust, being eater,
taiued ; but it would be perfect insanity to vote. OW for,
that purpose. Forty pounds would be quite sufficient fur:
that, and as Mr. Freme bad mentioned no other objects,'.
why sbou:d the council make the extravagant grant pm-m*4V ;
Mr. Alderman Slime admired the spirit of economy which
pervaded the speech of Mr. Currie. From that ht augured
well for the future management of the Finance Committee',
He thought, however, that the proposal of Mr. Frerne was
a judicious one, and he knew of no man at whose disposal
he would more willingly place a sum of money theta the
mayor.
Mr. Alderman EVANS participated in much of the satis:
faction of Mr. Sheil at the speech of Mr. Currie, and greatly
regretted that such wholesome admonitions, contained in so
few words, came so seldom from the quarter where they
ought to prevail, which was the pulldt. He hoped that these
remarks would go forth, in order that the rich might be
taught to know that their conduct was not unobserved.
There were in Liverpool many persons with tea, twenty,
thirty, and forty thousand a year, who considered that they
had done their duty when they put down a bookkeeper's
guinea. He had heard one of those millionaires declare; witli
great pride and indignation, that certain articles in the papers,
which he thought directed at him, were altogether unjust
and unfounded; for he subscribed to every charity in Liver-
pool. He (Mr. Evans) was, in consequence of that state-
ment, induced to look through the lists, and found that lie
(the person referred to) subscribed to many, though not all
the charities ; but in scarcely any instance did his subscrip-
tion exceed that of a man who had but a few hundreds to
provide for his family and his subscriptions-
,to the-public,
charities. He quite agreed with Mr. Currie in thinking that.
before they contributed to the enjoyments of those who were
confined in the Borough Gaol, they ought to regard those
who were nobly contending, by means of their own honest
industry, against the casualties and hardships of life, who
were buried in cellars and lay upon straw, and who yet-bad
resisted temptation, and had not applied to charities. To
neglect these for the purpose of entertaining the inmates of
a gaol, was to do a very wrong thing. They (the prisoners)
ought to know no alleviation of their punishment. It ought
to be to them an adyd,ittihrouoaulgohuetheroi know that whilst others
were rejoicing, they, were being kept
in grief and seclusion. With regard
r tomes'
the debtors, he had
had some little experience, and he wasof opinion that'
those
who found their way into gaol on account
htlie'irf there, is nine cases out of ten, through
quite conotweint
debt, arrived
ex.ttrhava-
gance and want of principle. He was
report, and hoped that no addition would be made'tow'itl. the
Mr. G_ LADSTONE could not concur with what had fallen
from Mr. Currie and Mr. Evans with respect to persons not
corning forward as they ought to have done. 1-le mentioned
it as a fact not generally known, that the charitable institu-
tions in Liverpool were all supported by a number of persons
under two thousand. He thought that the council should
not bargain with the public, but take higher ground, and at-
once vote £lOOO, leaving the public to do their duty. Surely,
if the £lOOO were needed by the charities in the event of the
public subscribing £2OOO, it would be more needed if that
sum were not subscribed • and it would be a more honoura-
ble course to give the £lOOO without any condition.
Mr. BUSIJELL, with regret, differed from his friend Mr.
Gladstone. Never, in his opinion, was an arrangement
more likely to give satisfaction to the town at large than the=
hue proposed in the report. If that condition had not been
inserted, the £lOOO would not have been named at all ; for
1:500 was considered by the cornmittee_as much, as could be
well afforded ; but in the hope that the charities would mate-
rially benefit, they said, " Let us propose an additional £5OO,
if the public will subscribe a certain sum." He was not
prepared to grant the proposed sum to the mayor.
Mr. JORDAN perfectly agreed with every
word that had
were many
fallen from Mr. Bushell. There people whom
nothing but a sense of public shame would drive to put their
hands into their pockets.
Mr. R.vrithoNE thought that
btheeen
the best plan which could have report contained by far
at this time. There were in the town richdevised
men,t o raise
and
women money
too,_ who had given largely to the charities, and whose
wealth no one begrudged ; but thebroeis'esvere also rich men
whose wealth was begrudged, and whose money
it dishonestly, so that he nhoetwsoould get
from them, honestly if he could, but if he u
get it,
be would getcould keep his neck
from the halter.—(Laughter.)
Mr. MeLLOIt thought the plan was a good one to met £2OOO
for the charities, and be proposed that subscription's should 2
begin in that room.
Mr. COOPER. agreed with Mr. Gladstone that the corpora_
Lion should boldly come forward with a sum of money, with-
out.
any condition. lie also liked the proposition of the last
speaker. The council could be very liberal with the public
money i let the public see whether they could be liberal with
their own money. He should be very glad to put down his
narne as a subscriber.
Mr. PLATT thought that many of the persons who did not
Dow subscribe to the charities would do so if called upon.
The Tower-CLERK stated that he had the a
thrown mend.
meat of Mr. Freme into the following shape, in order that
the provisions of the municipal act might be complied with :
"That, taking into consideration the approaching marriage
of the Queen, and the cells to which, therefore, the Mayor
will be subject, beyond the expense already entered into by
him for that occasion, the suns of three hundred pounds be
placed at his worship's disposal, in addition to the ordinary
mayoralty provision."
The report, to which the above was added, was then con-
firmed.
rug Vim DOCK BILL—WAREHOUSES ON THE DOCK QUAYS.
The MAYOR having called upon Mr. Evans,
Mr. Alderman Evaris said that he: rose, and be trusted
for the last time, to move the adoption of the bill prepared
by the Dock Committee, and which had been submitted to
the approbation of the council. The motion which he should
snake was not exactly in accordance with his own opinion,
but in deference to tbe opinion which e,
b
ex-
pressed by the council at their last meeting The was
• The resolution
was as follows :
" That the bill now submitted by the Dock Committee to
tho council, as trustees for the docks, forthe making of a
new dock, to the west of the Salthouse Dockavritti.Vit*„.,
houses on the quays Laud for the erectron of waieliMiesile
the west quay of the Prince's Dock ; and fOirnttheengiavaiitn-}nrveilletit
otineli Warehouses"; and for improvements h
a b. rid
.regulation of the docks, be adopted; .pursualltio:tfiirre:i
Ploita,f9ho council of the 2d of October last,- subject 'to
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the separate consideration, by the council, of each clause of
the bill ; and that the council do forthwith proceed to the
consideration thereof accordingly."
He remained of opinion that there was no good and sufficient
reason for the withdrawal of the sanction
.of the council. to
the principles which were contained in that • bill. They, no
doubt, had had a new election, and were now proceeding
with new members ; but he could not take that as any more

sufficient reason.
Mr. HonosoN rose to order. He would put it to the
Mayor whether this was not an adjourned debate. If this
ere the case,.Mr. Evans. of cour,e, was out, of order, as he

..,, .....__
had already spoken.
The ALVVOR .S3ill. IR! had previously consulted with the
'rown-clerk on-the. point raised br,lir. llodgson,and he (the
Town-clerk) was of opinion that it would be perfectly right.
in him , (the Mayor). to .call upon: Air. -Evans to open-.the

Mr. Alderman EVANS then.proeceded. He said that the
fact of some new member haring entered that chamber was

not a much more sufficie.nt reason. for reversing the-solemn
resolutions of the...council than the-return of a score of new
members,_ which occasionally happened during a session of
parliament, would-he -for 'reversing the resolutions of the
1-1 °use- or Commons. rThe resolutiOil d:tite,3d-.octoher had
been. affi rimed by -a -majority, And he.-could not: suppose that
the
.advent of-the new members was to dissolve all th 6 ties

and resolutions of that council. Ho had been so deeply
im-
pressed with the idea that the council would not swerve from
its usual and proper course, and.on the last occasion he de-
clined going into the merits of the case. The bare idea of

the reversal of the resolutions, and the negativing of the bill
which was now before them, made him shudder, not so muck
for the pecuniary loss which would' continue to-be inflicted
on the commerce of Liverpool. as for the loss of character
and moral influence which municipal government: the coun-
try's best hope. could not fail to sustain. He could not allow
himself to believe, howevel., that that council, on the only

.occasion where its public virtue had been tried against private
interests, would be found wanting. He could not think
that corporation, the first and greatest offspring of reform,
would be the first to offer obstruction to improvement.. He

could-not believe that-ai- to-- -tfia-t- tide of improvement which
Wag 'rushing past them in every. direction, they would say,
" Thus far shalt thou go and no farther." He conceived
that to refuse dock warehouses was to commit some moral
offence, similar to that of the ignorant and.. infatuated
weavers and spinners, who ,destroyed the mach,lnery which
so soon afterwards increased ihe;'employment•which they.

were apprehensive it. _Would ae.. ,considered thai
-the same cause of overwhelming advantage to the public
that resulted to them from the superiority of railroads over
.common roads, and commanded their creation., held in the case
of dock warehouses as cam-pared with the ordinary warehouses:
And, mlireover, on this case, their formation was.attended
with this additional advantage,- that they (the council)
usurped on no man's land, but made use of that which was
their own ; and they could build ~warehouses at such a cost
that no possible loss couldle, involved by their erection, but
they. would yield any return, :alinbst any return, that the
public, might choose to require from- them,'. and all without
infringing oh the'iights, and facilities, and cheapness which,
'in other respects, they would giire, and which they (the
council) Well knew were Of the utmost. importance to mer-
chants. As long as space, time, and expense were admitted
to be of the most iuiportant consideration to commerce, he
conceived that hohOdy could hesitate in acknowledging the

_..
great superiority of warehouses-at hand, and in combination
with shipping, to 'those which were at a distance. That
council; he looked on it, incurred a most awful responsibility
in rejecting the improv-ernents now offered by the Dock
Committee. They would unquestionably have the mortifi-
cation to see those piles of warehouses which were rejected
springing up around other docks.- Could it be believed,
when it was very well known and ascertained, that they
(the merchants) would not use every means in their power
to obtain them elsewhere ? Here would be not only a loss
of moral character. and of moral influence, but they would
have to relinquish the -dock dues, and there would be . a
loss both public and private. What a wretched remnant
that bill would appear to bee when gutted of its most
important provisions ! If it went before a committee of. the
House of Commons in that shape, the clauses expunged here
would be restored there, by others divesting the corporation
of all Controul-over the dock trustees. If, instead of going
with the upright character and moral strength with which
the dock trustees could go to parliament with the whole hill
in their hands, they (the council) were to go there with any--
thing which confessedly relinquished the consideration of
the interests of commerce, and denied to the public those
benefits which were of incalculable advantage, they would go
with a certainty of losing it. He would, for the present,
discard all particular motives in the various assertions, and
the false inferences drawn upon them, which had been urged
against dock warehouses. If there had been no private ware-
houses; could it have entered into the head of any mortal
man to build them anywhere except upon the dock quays-?
.1--Viutit'titeessarys after that, to- go
_into the mawkish .details
and argutnents which were put forth, from either miStakin
or interested motives-, under the.pretence 'of showing that the
public interest could •not really be benetittedby deck ware-
houses ?- • (Hear, hear, hear.) "Why, if thewarelmuSe owners.
wouldlake the straightforward and inanlycourse, they would.
discard all this -conteniPtible skirmishing. Let them come
forward and try the issue of their right s let them make out a
case, if they could; to pi-Oye that the commerce of the port
should forever be denied the advantage of dock warehouses
—to show that whatever may be the loss of time and injury
to ships and merchants' capital which may arise from the
perpetuation of this•bad system, still that the commerce of
Liverpool islo continue to endure it for all time. If they
could make out a case of that sort, it remained for those who
suffered to devise means for their emancipation. Now, he had
heard .the word monopoly bandied about. What did it aim
at ? Monopoly was generally underltood to be a raising of
prices by individuals who had. exclusive privileges, for the
purpose, in fact, of robbing others. But what was the cry
against them (the dock trust or council) in this instance ?
Why, that they were acting to lower prices. That was the
cry of the warehouse-owners. They (the Dock Committee)
could -afford to charge_ double the ordinary. rate for their
warehouses ; and ifsestraint were needed, it was in the upper
movement, not in the lower. one. Their monopoly would be
ones of advantage—one caused by location, and the public
would derive the whole benefit. It was extraordinary how
much might he said on a subject- of this sort in refutation of
what had been ten times refuted before; but he apprehended
that if any of the cobwebs which had been spun before, and
Inushedsaway, were replaced again, the gentlemen who would
follaWhim in the discussion woulanotallow them to remain,
-or,lll it happened that-any escaped:their observati,onOie be-.,
:iieve&thrithe should _he able ,to dispose of them-.in the last
resorts 'it bad been often. said that-20 or 30 years ago it
wouldhaye. beenquite proper to have -the warehouses. • But
who- wouldthave oppesed.thear? :- Why. the identical interest
that opposed them now, and- which would equally oppose
,• therna hitt-liked years- hence. Liverpool was yet in its course,
-andiit-Bail not arrived at anything like its midway advance-.
.went::. advantages that it was like a
good soil-seit required attention to its culture in proportion
tO '-itstkalite.ss-lioteLiverpotsishad- its• competitors, - and . it
could not bear to' be weighted without. its progress being--
impeded' more or less, in proportion to the obstruction
Placed in its way.- Because-Liverpool had gone on advan-
cing inabsolutesdefiunee of all advantages of this kind, that
wa-sato argument thatatow, when a better mode of working
sea-ports had been arrived at, she should not adopt it, and
advance with greatly-accelerated speed in future. Amongst
the contradictions nu& weak trash which it had been his lot
to read,-for;he declared .that, having nothing but a single.
ness of purpose in his object, if he had met with anything to
convince him he would have dropped it—he had met with
nothing that was: worth one straw in opposition to ware-
houses. (Hear.) All the great leading physical and moral
elements—time,. distance, and expense—were in fid-our
of the: scheme. It . was ~no use going into Minor details till
logic had proved that these were elements which did not enter
into commercial prosperity. He had heard about transit-
sheds, the cost of which would be about one-third that of the
warehouses—which it was intended should pay. nothing, and
which; as every body thought, would answer very little to the
purpose. - Amongst other of the lOose and.contradictory as;
sertions which he had happened to read in one of the fugitive
productions on this subject, was an assertion that seemed to
strike a very clever friend of his -more than- it struck hitns-
namely, that the warehouses of Liverpool hail,Coutributed,to.
its prosperity, never recollecting that .it was commerce that,
created warehouses, and not warehouses that created tom
anerce.'---They had had it urg&l, and urged too in analiamst
slanderous manner, that as the DoCk Committee were not
personally interested in the matter,- they could not act hon-
estly in the achninistratiOn of the dock trust. (No. no,) Was
there ever such an odious principle as that laid down ? He
envied not the man who entertained Such Opinions.. If such
personi Could beCome an inmate of his breast, they would find
that he laboured under such a sense of responsibilty which
they could never feel.. . • _ ..
Mr. Boisios: seconded the motion. He said that there were
these applications to parliament for the power of erecting
docks on the river Mersey, and every one of the plain; 'em-
braced•warehotiaes in
.connexion With the (leeks. There could
not be a more conclusive proof of the necessity of warehouses
adjoining the docks, and any; committee of the House of
Commons, impartially constituted would so think. The effect
of dock warehousei.wOuld be to improve. the value of pro-
perty .in the centre of the town.; and he had not the smallest
doubt, that the warehouses in Hanover-street and Wapping,
would beconie more valuable. when the, proposed new dock
was completed. The general property of the town would alSo
increase ;
.and the advantages would extend to Lodge-lane
and Spekelands. ' ._ „
Mr. Alderman EARLE—That is a good one, however,. .
Mr. H. LAWRENCE withdrew his motion in favor of that of
Mr. Booth, reserving to himself the right of bringing his own
forward, in case that of the other gentleman was lost.
Mr. Alderman BOOTH then proposed his amendment, ob-
serving that the council had, in his opinion, as much right to
interfere with the decision of October last; as it had to inter-
fere with and negative that of March. He called upon the.
Town-clerk tD read the second report Of the Finance Com-
mittee,- on docks and dock warehouses, which Was .received.
ofwhich been e e
is i i .
and approved Of by the council of the Bth of March. That
having
done,
Mr. Booth moved his amendment, a copy
inserted; above: Ile-was-of opinion that•transit
sheds and cranes would afford adequate accommodation, en-
sure facility and despatch,, arid enable the docks to do at
least double the duty now performed by them.
Mr: Alderman EARLE seconded the ainendruent. He said
that Mr. Evans was extremely fond of using harsh terms,
such as mawkish language, trash, &c. They were all fools
on the opposite side, and he (Mr. Evans) was an exceedingly
clever
am sure I only followed your example.
man.EN,
N s
A..... 4
Mr.
araned Itohas3ey
(Laughter.)
nthota t; lai en
dh als
must
slalyethnaast
lowerilltares.llNEvorAniritttLhe:e.;""'ellitileelt:ttwr,a.Sh,too, if he will allow me to say so.
an extraordinary doctrine to hold out that the new
It
wamemberss entering that council sheuld exactly coincide with
opinion' which had previously been affirmed. ' If they
the(thenew members) did not like anything that had passed,
had not they aright to exercise their owUjUdginent, or were
they. to be hound to the ipse dait of Mr. Evans, thatare-
ho *and nothing else would do? W
As to the spinners,' the
weavers, and railroads,' those were no parallel. cases. Rail-
ways were undertaken by private individuals ; but here was
a great trust, with the public money at their disposal, not
caring whether they
expended one hundred thousand or. two
1 hundred thousand pounds, nor whether they realised one or
two per cent.
Mr. EVANS and Mr. BARCLAY both rose to order.
Mi. EARLE.--I can answer, you, Mr. Barclay, and Mr.
Evans too.
Mr. BARCLAY protested against the broad charge brought
against the Dock Committee by Mr. Earle.
The NIANOR advised Mr. Earle to keep as close to the
subject as he could.
Bar-
clay, who was a very fine
Mr: EARLE—He was riot going. to quarrel with Mr. l
lalaker, and e
lt him have his turn.
(Laughter.) They would'
that. (Laughter.) lie was a,and had a
large private interest, which
absolutely necessary for thehalere.euslyditldiehteimn (;Mrh.. Earle) in
should Suffer, it should suffer • publici, interest
good that his
._
of , but he would nut have it suf-
fer en the mere assertion me.
Evans He denied the cor
rectness of the statement made by the
alderman at the -Meet-
.-
meet-
ing of Saturday, with respect. to the value of the warehouse
property in • Liverpool. He had yielded then to Mr. Evans
because he thought that a person correcting what he termed
a mis-statement :would talc.: care to.he correct ; but he had
since ascertained that the original estimate wan very nearly,Property was if not quite correct. , In 1837, the warehouse
rated at £152,411 ; that would show a value of about three
millions, which was more than 11 . I..vans s. estimate, at any
the present value was 8 -Al-*
Evans, had estimated that about,oayoiu-
rate. But a person who was as capable of judging a t,
ou t six
some warehouse
yield a rental of X 260
property
ThperilliOellenSi.,,,7
ad thathigher. it mouldreturn
not pay so much. The same
gave ; , he. had. some that did
than
Person harLstated . that there were mortgages on warehouse
property to the.,extent of £2,400,000. He bad never said

that the Dock Committee had interested motives, and that
they were devoid of honesty ; but he contended that the..
strongest inducement for persons to exercise their talent, in-
genuity, and attention, was to have a pecuniary interest
themselves ; and he believed that if the docks Were et to
private interests, the town and trade would get on a great
deal quicker and better. (Hear, hear.) This was the very'
essence.of things in London. Mr. Earle then quoted from a
newspaper a speech of Mr. Currie on this subject, delivered
in moving the adoption of the report of the Finance Commit-
tee, and alluded to that gentleman's change of opinion. .
Mr. H. Hour supported the original motion. He repeated
the statement made by Mr. Evans on Saturday, relative to
the value of warehouse property, which he estimated to be
about one million and three quarters.
Mr. Alderman I3ENN said it was the practice, in for Mer
days, for the merchants to have their counting-houses con-.
tiguous to their private dwellings. In consequence of this
we found innumerable warehouses in HenrY-street,.Duke-
street, and other situations extremely inconsistent with the
convenience of trade. • Merchants had removed to their coun-
try houses, and would also remove their Warehousesto the
neighbourhood Of the Exchange, but finding that they _could
not, they called upon the public to cart goods' to their ware-
houses. • Now, this,.in the, _present,ilay, waS-;extrutuely..,-
reasonable. A new race Of
.merchants had risen they

had eoMe here from London and various places- abroad, and
when they saw the situation of the preserit warehouses, they
said,' ".We have no interest in.them ; we expect you to find
us with_ warehouses. upon the dock quays where we can con
__.

veniently transact our business." They naturally pointed to
the large vacant plot of ground on the west side of Salthouse

Dock, and said, ""
here you have an opportunity of building
warehouses upon the same plan as the dock warehouses in
London and other places, which are found to work to great
advantage." And this appeared to he very reasonable, be-
cause these parties found they could not. pursue their business
in Liverpool with the same facilities as in London without
some such exertions. If they-placed goods in a Liverpool
warehouse, the buyers from London and the manufacturing
districts would not purchase them, because they had no re-
liance upon the mode of warehousing., By the present, if a
shipment of goods were damaged it was not fairly reportedlo•
the buyers, because the only parties employed to examine and
sample them were this servants of the Owners- of the goods.
The consequence was 'that by these goods, Whieli when sold
by auction, were -required to-be taken with all faults, were
found by the buyer, on gOing into the warehouse to take
them away, not to have been fairly , sampled—that •the
injured portion had not been introduced into
.the-. sample
—and that there was `greitr injustice in the'ltlitkle of Valli=
piing, The buyers had no redress; consequently they--7.
particularly buyers for export and drysalters—had become too
`disgusted with the present system of things, that they had
ceased to buy in Liverpool. In-London the dock companies
examined the. goods in the warehouses ; they searched out
samples to the brokers ; when the goods had' been so sampled,
the weight of them was-ascertained, and the companies held
themselves liable-for their delivery. Hut in Liverpool there
were innumerable instances of pilferage, to a large extent ; and
he believed, Mr.- Sands would say, that indigo was often
stolen. lie himself (Mr. Benn) only a few days ago, was
called upon to pay dut y-upon a cask of coffee he had imported,
which, when taken from the warehouse., was found to he
nearly empty----for the coffee thus pilfered from the warehouse
he had to pay the duty, although the sale had been made two
or three years ago. There was a petition against the mea-

sure 'from a large number of i!orterS,' carters, and others
whose occupation it was said would be gone if this proposi
tion were adopted ; and it would, if the erection of the ware

houses would not- bring that large increase•of trade which
they must necessarily do. There must 'be at least as many,
or more Men employed in the examination and weighing of
the goods lodged in the warehouses as at present; and, if
there should be a diminution in- the number of horses oni-

ployed, he considered:that would be a national good. The
carters themselves; if need be,- must find occupation in some
other way. (Hear, hear:), Another point was, that the mer-
chants who came here to settle—foreigners as well as Vl-

glishmen—come for the purpose of pi:ofitably transacting
their business, they wished to have an opportunity of bring-
ing back to-Liverpool returns for the goods they exported
froM Liverpool; but, as matters now stood, a large portion
of those returns,went either to the continent or to London.
Now, those returns should be invited to come here, and he
believed they would, provided there was the means of placing
them where they would enjoy the confidence of buyers,
and in which there would be no difficulty in selling them.
This branch of commerce would certainly then be very
large. With regard to wines and spirits, it must be
obvious that vaults, possessing the greatest possible security,
were much wanted in this town. Wines, in particular, under
the present gysteM, were continually being opened and con-.
sumed by, persons who frequent the bonding warehouses—
for'the bonding-
.warchouses were the least secnre in the town.
NOW, it was he duty of the council and of the-Dock Com,
mittee to endeavour to lessen' the disadvantage under which
the town laboured in this respect. The Dock Conimittee •
had eonsidere& the natter in every poinfof view, and they'
were decidedly- of opinion,-that Without these 'warehouses
thev.!could-nOt afford the seetrrity inicl the facilities which'the
public asked for. Beit reinambered, 'there -was such a port
in the kingdom, in 'which,the inaking of docks'and the build,
• ing of Warehouses' did not invariably accompany one another,
'no matter What the• price of •land might be: As•to the ei--
penie in this case, he •believed the returns from• making a'
dock, Without warehouses, on the _west side of Salthouse
Dock, would be eX6eedingly'stnall, but with the addition of
warehouseS it would return 'about XS per cent. upon the out-
lay, including the charge for the land. • As to transit shedi
he gi•anted some slight advan, z-46e. might be derived from them;'
as they might enable a ship to work one or two hours later
in the evening, but what followed? Why; if goods were
landed in the evening, they must be removed tint follov•*irig•
morning, before the vessel could recommence, consequently,
transit sheds would do no good whatever. The great ob ec-
tion to these sheds was, that Von Would still he under the ob-
ligation 'of removing the goods 'to a distant warehouse Which
could not be. done dui-in, rain, consertuentlY.the ship, must
• necessarily be detained until the' goods could-be reiiidved.
-The great evils of exposure to the weatherand pilferage &~otilif
remain ; what good therefore was to result from transit shedk
he was unable to perceive. Under these eircumatatees, he

did not see that anything had been suggested to. -render-tin
necessary the course proposed by the. Dock Committee, and
he earnestly trusted the decision of the. council
favour of it. ."1.9u01
Mr. JOHN SMITH said that a close and impartial rotiSides
ration of this important question inall its hearings and ratni.
hcatious, since it was last fully discussed in that council
chamber, had not, in the slightest degree, wrought any change..
in -his mind as to the inexpediency, the irnpolicy, and-the
-injustice of erecting: -these Warehouses:, tHear. ,bear.) -Ht:
still retained the opinion.that to delegate CO the doclarusteesi.
as a public body, having individually no special interest at,
stake, and, consequently,,no_personal liability. to _incur, the
power of bringing the,iiiblic purse, to -bear upen privaie
capital wis initithte.4 tabiloPoly of a inoSt.dangerous de=
scription—a inOnopely, which must have a direct tendency,in
its resulti seriously ..to injure and depreciate a large
valuable property „the .town .(klear,. hear.), ...Mr. &Item.
and Mr.; Haft had told them-that private interests o.ught.tti
give way to public good. He (Mr. S.) was ready to adinit'
the truth and souridness.of this position to the very utmost
extent ; but, he had 'yet to learn what twisting ~of. -argu-
ment, by what distortion-of reasomng, it could be made to,
appear that the sacrifice of four millions of rateable property
in the town of LiVerpool would be of public advantage...
(Hear, hear.) He would acknowledge hithself second to Ilene,
either in- that room Or out of it, in feelings of zeal and anxiety
to promote the cemmercial prosperity of this great community.
But he contended that this favourite project, this ill-judged
scheine of the Dock Committee, was not at all calculated to
produce any beneficial result—on the contrary, he felt tho-
roughly convinced-that if they permitted this measure to he
carries into effect, the only harvest they. would reap for their
pains would be bitterness of feeling; and grievous disappoint.
ment—bitterness of feeling on the part of those whose.prn-
perty they had been instrumental in destroying, and grievous
disappointment to themselves 'when they discover, but too
late, that the revenues accruing from their experiment would
not 'pay even the Common interest of their outlay. These
' were his honest and conscientious opinions, and he would act
up to the spirit of them by 'voting against the motion of Mr.
Alderman Evans.
Mr. SANDBACII rose, as a merchant and a shipowner. most
anxious to have warehouses upon.the dockqttays, to 'Oppose
the bill recommended by Mr. Evans. If.the propoSed ware-
houses were erected and worked by the Dock Committee,
they would be in the position of having warehouses in the
very best situation, but under the worst management in the
town, which he insisted must necessarily be the- case under
the management of the Dock Comthittee. He meant no
reflection upon the capabilities or the integrity of the gen-
tlemen composing that committee, but the fact must be so
from the nature of the case. They had their .own private
interests to attend to, they had their own particular interests
to protect ; and when a large body. of men were associated for
the promotion of that in. which they had no interest—the
responsibility being .eciliseqaently divided, however well cal-
culated-they might be. to make general regulations, experi-
ence proied that they Were' not efficient in detail. (Hear.)
Indeed it. had been adinitted.to-day, that the docks might be
made-much more useful than.they were, and that a much larger
rumberof ships might discharge at the same time under a
better system. -.9-e-iwould prove it: More ves-
sels; us.e.dto be in the docks...two years--ago than there were
nnwiland 'he with ainieraber .efthe Shipowners' Association,
which year after year had
.begrOn. the Ambit of memorializing
the.:PoCk.CoMmittee to erect additional .cranes and throw
off the vis. inertia, that .always. belonged to such a body ; No
cranes were erected :for years. and when the committee did
mOve., they did not erect them to the extent they might and
ought to have done. Ite knew that a. ship would frequently
wait two or three days in order to get a position under a crane,
which proved there.were not sufficient; and only yesterday
he.vias.near one which broke for want of strength. These
circUrostances, he considered, established. his position, that
the DoCk.CoMmitteeciikl not work the Docks with the same
advantage. to .the publio iii.indivictuals might. The reason
why warehouies had not hitherto been erected upon the dock
quays to meet the exigencies of the case should be.hOrne in
mind.; it was because the CorporatiOn would not permit them
to, be- -ereeted—because. they:-would uot,eitkar.- sell.or.lease
their land"for such a purpose. if that refusal were now with-
drawn, and the land could be had, there was quite enough of
private enterprise and capital to build warehouses in the situa-
tions where they would best pay. It appeared to him that this
was a:case, of all others, in which the principle of supply and
demand was applicable ; that if warehouses were demanded,
you would have them built to the extent and of the kind that
was wanted, and no further, thereby meeting fairly the ob-
jections of the warehouse-owners. As to profit, his opinion
was, that the dock estate would derive more profit from leas-
ing the land to build warehouses.upon, than by working the
warehouses themselves besides, it was a fact worth bearing
in mind, although' it had not yet been alluded to, that this
plan of the Dock Committee, of erecting warehouses, had
not been approved of by any one of the public associations
in Liverpool, although it was well known that many mercan-
tile men desired warehouses there, but, on the contrary, se-
veral of these associations had meiporialised against them.
Another point he would press upon Mr. Evans, namely, that
he could-not carry this bill throughparliarnent without meet;
disapproving
threeg
ing with very strong opposition—an opposition involving
wouldwastedproject.r
tren
matter
aneauai astnbnnstsedehttrbbehtt
ereehe
or
mecswfs:
Corporationror
huu.uitsnlsEee,
ctimfloi►all:leyonoco—flsed mpabdtnaietnushaa:
enough
preferablewarehouses
are
whatstruggle,man management.
on%)
,t,ta'rtseomTa
it
v antd epde a
tni teh
we
0. putieds et nh te
Dc ooncskt i
Committeetut i o n o f t hbee. D
ino cwkh
eEns ttahteey.
appeared before parliament, opposed by the ship-owners, and
jeoentwo
dee
es
thistrsahtoeus l?dp
omlitnotssetheernsftoerrdeen
tttihooenyhs
wnyieonwptpeaornst
)eh,
tfpausing
merchants, and warehouse-owners, to resist an attempt to
taisien:pi:neta:ol ianaetiliduttohss
upport the amendment, althoUgh he would rather
haVe warehouses on the dock quays. . .
Mr. ROBINstiN, though he had no private interests to pro-
mote, should vote fOr the amendment. He had long been
convinced a the inconvenience endured by shipowners, in
the discharge of the vessels upon the quays; and when the
brought
him to a different
subject.. first broached, he thought warehouses were very
desirable, but further reflection
of
the warehouses, if erected
an accumulation of arrivals,
d • h d
lity, be cal e up wit taro uce, and
conclusion. In case of a continuance easterly. winds, and
would, in all probabi
before the Finance Com-
mittee,He had read over the
by- Mr. Tyrer and Mr. Clint.
accommodation wOuld'still be wanting. He found this. fact
fully proved in the evidence given
whole of the evidence, and it clearly provedi that, notwith-
standing what might be said of the superior cheapness of
London over Liverpool, with all its present taxes, the balance
of 'cheapness in removing produce:was in favour of this port.
In the cases of Messrs. Taylor, Fetter, and Cy., lle'fPd.

comparison between . London and Liverpool. In Bengal
sugar the expenses of landing .in London was stated at id
per cwt. less than in Liverpool, whilst for loading Mauritius
sugar in Liverpool the expense was Abut Id per cwt. less in
London. He had known an instance of a ship arriving at
Liverpool from Calcutta, the expenses were £l9. niore than
inLondon: But on the other hand he had an instance

self of a vessel of 300 tons from the West Indies going to
London; the expenses' of which, in dock rates and other
charges,, amounted to .£B3 lBs 2d ; but in .Liverpool, whore
- -

the expenses were greater in consequence _of the higher.
rates, the charges for that vessel of 300 tons were
only £M:5s 7d, Making- a difference incfavoul. of Liver-
pool of £O. Upon the cargo of sugar to .which he ,had.
alluded, be found the whole difference of eipense in favour
ce LiverpOol was • about ;EH 16s. • Then .; there would
be. a new risk _created :by the.,ereatiotk:- of warehouSes•
upon the dock quays.. The insurance upon a vesSel ge-
nerally- terminated when a vesserivent-into -dock`; and he
would say .he should be borne ow, in stating that the. Owners
never dreamed of renewing an insurance upon a.vessel whilst
she was in dock. But if yon brOught- Warehousesto the.inar-
gin of the dock you Increased. the risk .of the vessel. .He
would remind thecouncil that there were aboady warehouses
uOcerf Dat± quay, in the-docupatit'm of -Mr:-INilont.:'
gomery-; and- lie •had himself landed cargo of pkidtipe-in
them. There were., at this moment; only three of them that
were'half full ; yet they were CloSe to the margin of the dock,
and-there were three others nearly in the same situation !. As
to the insurance of vessels coming into dock, it would be 2s.
or 2s. 6d. per cent. upon the value—thus creating an addi-
tional-charge-of .£10; in this respect, therefore, the propoed
act would be oppressive and tyrannical towards the ship-
owner. Mr. Robinson then referred to reports from Mr.
Okill, clerk to the committees, and Mr. Franklin, the sur-
veyor, to the effect that there had been no applications for
land on which to erect Warehouses for some years, to prove
that the present accommodation was sufficient without addi-
tional erections ; and to Mr. Aikin's evidence, to show that
most of the goods in the warehouses upon the dock quays
would have to be soon removed, or be subjected to--an addi
tional rent from the time they had been imported.
Mr. EvaNs said there was no provision of this sort in the
hill, and that Mr. Robinson was arguing upon imaginary
things. •
Mr.-ROBiNsoi: said be ivas'endeavouringto show, from
the evidence before theiWtifeli• Gon-unittee,' that. the fe was:no
necessitY.for these Warehouses, and-to lay his conclusion be-
fore the cOuncil. Ile should-now-cenclude, however, by ex-
pressing his•intentiori te for•ibe a Men d inent ... •
Mr.SHHIL,' in a very long speech, replied tothe remarks
of Mr. Robinson and Mr. Sandbaeh, and entered upon the
merits of the general- question,-onthe grounds advanced by.
Evans.lf the .warehouse-owners .suffered an injury, it
would be for an object which would greatly benefit the gene-
ral interest: of the, community. lle should support the
original

-
Mr. D.•. HODGSON hoped, from the discussion hitherto
had, to. be able to take.sirch luview of the question as would
prevent the time of the council being occupied by a continua-
tion of details which he- respe.7tfully submitted (lid not hear
upon.the question. The cptestion was one of principle, and
he for one .Was resolved upon that principle. W- was not
going to dispute whether warehouse's" were wanted or not.
That•theywere desired be, thought there could be no ques-
tion ; but he was not at all disposed to enter upon that point,
He meant merely to ask this-question, and it was curious he
should have to ask it from those who called themselves libe-
rals and reformers, whether they wished to perpetuate a mo-
nopoly? If they were to have a monopoly of warehouses,
why not have a monopoly of ships? Why not compete with
the pnhlic in shipS-Upon the same grand scale as would suit
the notion of the gentleman who spoke last? ,If he (Mr. H.)
could conceive the Dock Committee to he possessed of all
wisdom and all capability, and that they were, unbiassed in
all their acts, he would say, without hesitation, ", confide the.
monopoly- to them by all means ;" hut be meant not the
slightest reflection upon them when he declared, that from
their position they were an incompetent body and ever must
he. tie was surprised when he heard it broadly stated that
there Wasno pchtieal question in the present matter, He•
happened to know the sentiments of some of his old friends,
who were most anxious to support the dock estate under the
old corporation, hat a change had taken place in their senti-
ments. • So thr from being actuated by a political spirit, he
helieied he should be followed by some gentlemen who would
say they'should like to
.have the corporation as it was for po-
litical purposes—for the'advantage of the party now in power.
He meant to give no offence to any individual, but he would
now throw aside the political part of the question. He con-
sidered the Watch Committee incompetent for the best ma-
. nagement of the Waithouses, should they be required; that up
••• to the present hotir they had not done that which had been in
their; power, Which would have-facilitated the business of the

porti_and have rendered the expense now called for for making
new docks quite unnecessary. He had no hesitation in saying
that a stimulus necessary for carrying on business with suc-
cess- would have.beenliven by charging vessels only in pro-
portion to the accommodation they enjoyed. Whatever the
det;fsion..wight be, .he Could not help thinking thafalarge
proportion. Of the 'gentlemen who had recornmended this
course hadseareely any interest in warehouse property. The'
value of it, according to the mover of the resolution,. was •
£2,400;000. Now he (Mi. Hodgson) would venture to ask
that gentleman what proportion of that sum belonged to
those who acted with hint ? He (Mr. Hodgson) very much
'4uestion9tt amounted to £40,000.. Now, knhad np
-
Twarehons-eliropirtY ; therefore, when he was Speaking of
`those places which had the bean ideal for their momentum,
fhe could not be acctiscid of having any private-interest of his
own. When they found themselves in a position to inflict
upon theoanters of that description of property in the town a
naoAjtprAlled-for and serious injury, such man, he thought,
whp,),Npuld:, propose it, must- have a considerable degree, of
.con Peace in himself, -very.nearly approaching to presump-
tjon.. He did not mean to give offence ; but. he did think
that with the opinion expressed here, as it would he by the
division, with the opinion of the different public bodies, with
the opinion of the warehouse proprietorsi. with. the opinion',
gainipg.,gropqd,,day tmAys that a
.be t ter .sy ate in of: siggk
;tagement might be adopted than that'uow:;iptOltOse4,,lU
. .

PresPCiiiPiglitihesPhareeteriSed a 3 aseskiettetiPtstehPrerms.
threly carry that which could. pot succeed isvparlialefenti.and
that,wlaich mitild_eontinue`,o be a vexatious and.akn.uwing
question. with 'these feelings he va,s prelim ed tn.:vete:fee , „
the amendment.
Mr. Horeenv did not rise iiii•eply to what had been said
against *-10.tslibusee on the. ddeleqUayi; hitt id
right in one important point. It had been said that not
one of the public associated.bodie,awerein fa-Vour of the pro-
oesitifiett:s Wattidesirsiblee.the:ctuincil- should know that
at a meeeieg of the -.Shipowners" Association this morning,.
they had. passed a :resolutinis appreyiug of it. • - '
NC.::SA4LE.-.7.-Does-theyesolution.state that they approVe
of the warebousea being. -under the management Of Ihe dock
trustees? . , ,
Mr. f10R1117.-7NO,:itdOeg:Tt9t.
. Mr.
_l.:saee.—l thought not. That is very important.:
. Mr. Hoiti.inxiaid the opinion of the-association was,-that
the warehouses should be leased, and not warked.by the dock
,trissoes, r.:, klotigsOn:sftnied to!think that those:gentilm,-'
men hadbeen. favourable to Separating the dock estate
from the'council were inconsistent.; now he (Mr. Hornby)
Could see .rip.incensreteney in those. gentlemen.
Mr. 800-os said he was connected with the Anierican
Association, which-had sent in a resolution approving of the
mode of management under the dock trustees.
Mr. W. W. CURRIE, at some length, defended himself
from the imputation of inconsistency ; he said the speech of
his friend Mr. Hodgson was of great importance in one point,
and it ought to sink deep in the minds of the dock trustees,
for it was indicative of an intention, somewhere, to attempt
to separate the dock estate from the corporation.
Mr. HosiesON.—,Fioni snit qui sisal y pease.
Mr. Cueattr.—ls. there any gentlemen here:who did not
receive that speech as a kind of knell or. warning:of an-in-
tention existing somewhere to separate the, dock estate .froni-
the corporation ? • -
M!.l-19DcsoN.7-1 must deny any such inference, • . I
Mr. CURRIE would- put the question to' any- gentlemen
whether such an inference must not be drawn,,, if he- was
wrong he was sorry-for it, but he never before heard a speech
which so much held that inference in terrnrew.
Mr. SANDS—I had no such impression. •
Mr. Ctialite—Perhaps you did not hear the words.
Mr. SANDS—Oh yea;
.1 ,
Mr. CoßuiE would-never consent to diminish in anyman-
ner ,
the property of the corporation, therefore he, for one,
was prepared to resist the. attenipt,, whenever it should be
made, to separate the dock estate from the corporation.
Mr. SANDS said, all he had heard had only served to con-
vince hiM of the propriety:of. the course he had taken upon
a formeroccasion, when this subject was before the. cot-TU.--
From what Mr. Currie had said he was satisfied the amend-
ment he proposed would have met with the approbation of the
town at large. Mr. Sands went on to say that his house had
lost nothing material in indigo by the present system of wares.
housing, and to say that Mr. Bean was in error in his asser-
tion to the reverse. His opinion was that the proposed ware-
houses would be worked much better by private hands than
by the trustees of the dock estate.
Mr. BLACKBURN followed, and in an address of consider-
able length, took up all, or nearly all of the argutnents in fa..
vor of the proposed warehouses, and strongly. urged them.
upon the council. They would,he attended, he said, with an
extension of the commerce of the-port, and having thisime
pression, he should give his stiPportto the original motion. •
Mr; Buslieee.said he rose withfeelings of great diffidence,
and with considerable distrust to address the council upon
the momentous question which agitated them. He had these •
feelings in a higher degree, in consequence of seeing arrayed
against the view which, dispassionately and without prejudice,
he felt himself called upon to take a powerful combination of
the talent in that council. But, as in' private matters so in
public, no personal considerations ever had, or ever should,
influence him hi the course he should take wnen he felt he
was doing.right. He stood before them then perfectly inde-
pendent, to oppose the objectionable clauses in the proposed
bill which the Dock Committee had called upon the council
to support. He was de'si'rous, in diseussing this matter, to
avoid all personal allusions—to avoid expressing any senti-
ment which could, by any poSsibility, give ,personal offence ;
therefore, he had taken this opporttinity of disclaiming any
suelsintentiontif in the_ warmth of debate .he should:acci-
dentally fall into an error of that nature. Before he:tittered
such sentiments, he begged to disavow them. He held in his
hand a pamphlet on this subject, a copy of which had been
presented to him by its very talented author. He confessed,
that upon the first reading of this pamphlet he was almost
led to believe that Mr. Evans had found out a panacea for
all the mercantile ills with which Liverpool was affected, and
that he could scarcely see the possibility of opposition to a
scheme so just and rational. But when. he came to reflect—
when he came to digest and analyze the propositions ad-
vanced in that pamphlet, he arrived at a totally different con-
clusion from that which he had-in the -first instance:hastily
formed—a circumstance which showed the effect of -ad .cap-
tandem arguments upon the mind before we gave ourselves
an opportunity to consider the entire question.. If he could.
-have brought his mind to believe that all the advantages
euuraerated in that pamphlet could ever arise to the town-of
Liver Pool by the adoption of its propositions, he would be ,
one .of the first le:say, !! let WI haVejilet!l bY,411 ktleaPS,.l4o,n;
'vided we can get them without, a sacrifice of public ,
principle on the part of this -body ! Hr might, without
bffenee - be permitted to term the . contents . of , the
pamphlet " Evans's Heal-all" (Laughter.) In it: the
talented author had advanced a great deal of mere
parable—a great deal on which it was not possible for the
Council to agree. But he.hoped. that this municipal heal-all
would never be permitted to bear the government stamp.
(Hear. hear.) He would first address himself to Mr. Black-
burn, in language which that gentle Man could not fail to un-
derstand. He would ask him, whether it were the cubtom
among respectable practitioners to foster a disease for the
sake of profit? 'Would any respectable practitioner he so
base as first to extend the malady it was his duty to cure,
and then coolly turn round to the patient and say,—". It is
true I have done nothing for you ; it is true I have got pay
and profit by you; but I have not applied those simple re-
medies to your ease which I might have done, and now it has.
become so had, that nothing is left for us but aniptitation,',
Mr. Blackburn's views on this question were exactly thi*,-
of a man who, having fostered a disease for many yerifs,
without applying a single remedy towards checking it; turned
round, as the last resort, and said to the unfortunate patients,
the warehouse-owners,—" We will treat you like so many
hospital patients, and practise our experiments upon,you, in
the hope to benefit the community at large. (Hear,.hear.).
Did Mr. Blackburn approve of this course of action? 'He.
(Mr. Bushell) would declare, that during many many years,
which it had been asserted to-day in this Council, and not
denied, .the acts of the old Council were binding npon,the
new; and if they applied. that principle to the present syse
tem; they must apply it to all times. Now we had it on re-
cord, and the fact could not be controverted, that the old
Council did foster and encourage the building of warellnuSS,_
for the sake of their own profit. Coiild they believe Asie,,ie
the present warehouse-owners had considered it pos,sibleJliat
they. should ever be competedhad
public bodylike th
with by a
.„ e
Corporation, which-Public body had beell abtalLl44: S.M. 14

selling land on lease for these very purposes,. would they
have. dreamed of paying the enormous prices for the land
sold to them for that special' purpose—namely, the erection
of -warehouses? Would any man, possessed of common
sense, .have thought for amoment of paying such prices as
were then demanded ? For this reason he asserted that the

Council had fostered and promoted the disease (if disease it
be); and,now; when they had found it out, they turned round
and said,-,--" We Will not apply the simple remedies we ought
to have applied long ago, but we will go at once for ampnta-
tion.!!.. (Hear.) He (Mr.. Bushell) had no interest in
warehouseS, for he did not hold a single brick in Liverpool—
he wished he did : but, at thuSame time, he should he happy
.to be convinced .if he, was wrong in his opinions, and he might
yet, like 'Mr. Currie, turn round and speak the other way
•(Heer; hear) He now -dinned their attention whilst he read-
Soma curious extracts, from. Mr. Evans! pamphlet, and .he
would call upon them to obsct ve carefully the way in whiCh
the t'aferiterl Writer
``Warehouses, f erected, would afford such shelter that
the moving of ships in the doCks would never be-difficult,"
"The desnatch which warehouses on the doek'quays wOuld
give to the. discharging of- shins Wen with .foreign. produce
will, in effect, be equivalent to increased dock-room. . Ware-
heiuses will pay for themselveS, and
burden of stinking and -maintainfirtzteir;doeks, ivfiich, with
their aid; will then, to a less extent, be mecessary."
`" The security of public stores will bring R ith it the Prac-
tice of warrants and certificates, by which goods will,. .with-
out expense, be transferable, and, rendered into active capi-
tal, become almost as available as money itself." _

" Shipowners will avail themselves of the warehouses for
depositing unclaimed or disputed goods, and for securing
their freights by holding a sure lien upon the cargo."
" DOck warehouses will reduce fire insurance more than
80 per cent. upon the premium now charged. upon Liverpool
warehouses, which is 103., Whilst, in London, it is only is. 6d.
• per cent...
" Let Liverpool provide properwarehouses, in their proper
place, and it may Won become the chief emporium of the
East, and West India trade, as well as of that of South
America."

" The means:which this town can put into action would
give it a large portion of the hiland.trade in sugar, tea, in=.
digo, drYsalteries, &c., now held by London." • -
" The ability: to supply foreignand doniestid; produee, ate.
the cheapest rateaocou/a, in like-manner, draw.lither the
trade of the South of Europe and of the Mediterranean."
It wasinthis choice mode_that Mr. Evans ;poke throughout
-his work. All the -advantage A-which -he-.eidurietated 'were
entirely suppositious•:. they all depended upon oandshouids
and would.e. (Hear.) Would not the•council.concede that
it was very desirable, in so important a scheme; yet -to be
adopted, that Mr: Evani should have etated facts instead of
opinions only? With all. his talent, *which he (Mr. Bushell)
should-be.proud to possess, he must take the liberty of say-
ing that Mr. Evans 'ti opinions were by no means infallible.
(Hear.) A word now to Mr. Blackburn , who had told the
council it was Possible. he might lose his seat for his opinions
upon this question. 'Whut did than circumstance: prove?
Why, that the opinions of the. town were against him (ap-
plause)—that, by erecting these intended warehouses, they
would' be thrusting them down the people's, throats when
they did not want them, and when the exigencies of com-
merce did not- need them.. (Applause.) Mr.. Blackburn,
therefore, had advanced one of the very strongest argumentS
against the motion-- •
Mr.' BLAcKatinN,—lt is a misrepresentation: I did not
conceive I should lose my seat for my opinions on this ques-
tion, but that I might be taunted with them. • .
Mr. Busnm.L.---.I give Mr. Blackburn the benefit of his
explanation..
Mr. BLACK nußN.—That is all I•want. • .
30RDAN.—GO on.

Mr. BUSHELL would go on, and repeat that Mr. Black-
hurn'had thus advanced ooe of the veryastrongest arguments
'it was possible to use against the proposed measure. (Hear,
hear.) Having, then, fairly demolished. Mr. Blackburn,
(hear, hear,) he would advance against Mr. Evans. (Hear,
hear.) Mr. Evans had told the council that the competition
which it was intended to offer in these proposed warehouSes
was, Avowedly, intended to produce the effect of depreciating
prices—that was, to lower the rates of porterage, rents, and
all the ordinary warehouse charges. En the face of such
a hold assertion as that, was it possible for the warehouse-
owners to feel at peace with the scheme? No. (Hear, hear.)
It had been asserted, that thirty years ago the owners of
warehouse property were the opponents then, as now, of a.
similar system to this, which was then proposed. Yes, and
properly so. But he would ask the promoters of the
scheme why the corporation for the time being, and the cor-
poration subsequently, hail not opposed the lurking disease,
which they saw going on and spreading itself? (Hear, heal-0
Why did they not- say to thepurchasers of land, when they
Made application for it,. " we will sell you land if you wish,
but we will not allow vou.to build warehouses upon it, be-
cause WE intend to erect them ?" That would have been a
just and upright line of conduct on the part of the corpo-
ration . (hear, hear); but to foster and encourage the build-
ing of warehouses, to-get as large a-pricefor their land as
they; could, to insist -upon the erection of warehouses upon
it, and then turn round to ruin the property they had helped
to "create, was a line of conduct in which he could not for
one moment concur. (Applause.) Railways and canals
had been quoted, as parallel cases to that before the council;
but he contended there was no analogy between them.
letfilWay'S and-canals:were not fostered by any pub-
lic bodies like this corporation ; -on the contrary, they were
left to the spirit and enterprise of private individuals. But
in this, case . the council themselves had been- the foster fathers
of the present system, and now they were its opponents for
the same reason—to promote their own interests; (Hear.)
If any thing was a parallel to it, he conceived the slave com-
peesation to he that parallel. What was the case there
We found that- the slave trade had been encouraged by Go
verninent for many years ; when the Government. found, a
cry came from the. nation—and a proper cry--saying, " we
'will not -tolerate this odious system any longer," they said, •
`1 we willschs away with it ; hut, as we have fostered it-for the,
lienefit setthe community et large, of course we must give
cbuipeitsation 'to the slave.owners." Now here was exactly'
a OaralltaL ease. If the Government gave:compensatitin to: •
those whose supperty they injured by the change,. this cowls
cil must4i've catepenaation to the "starehouse-owners 'for' the'
injury .indicted-upon them. --Ifithey were not prepared to;
do, Unit,. al-wy,?siest incur the .odium of having beezeguiltv Rf
tbe'g:rosgest ieSestice.
Mr.Altlßrissan Baa: here intimated his dissent-from tom'
parallel by laughing at it.
Mr. Bi'-`a-neli, said Mr. Benn might laugh if he, tlicau'ggPitt
proper at the injury 'that would be' committed liy'the'Prb=
posed scheme; ha it was .np .laughingmatter forAie,nn.fiee-h,
tunate warehouse Ownees' to'firidtheir propeitY ruined by tlie"
' Corporation. -He(Mr.'lltishell) trusted, that, notwithatandra
Benn's taughter, .the council would take a •just,-ans,l
common aense'vie* of the queStiofi. There were many per,:
sons in-- the Connell' who' were 'ildfocateskof free trade as it:
called; and he would ask them what had their free trade
led them to ? They told.hS that their sole motive in wishing
to build these warehouses-was to increase the tradeof LiVerf
Tool, apri-to,forther the interests-of-the port. :Now, hek44,.
they *ere grosily inconsistent in their condhct. When 4t
was iiiPposed -by Mr. Poulett Thomson, then Prkident of
the Beard of Trade, to introduce a bill for establishing
system of inland bonding, they steod by paSsive spectators..
Yes, when a measure -*as proposed by the government which
would have had the effect of taking away one half of the trade
Of Liverpool they were passive---
A CorrstelL7.olt.—Oh, Oh!
-13usnELi,..77-:-Oh, Oh! Aye, it was, " oh, oh !"
(Laughter.) He repeated, that, although that measure would
have destroyed half the commerce-of Liverpool, these gen-
tlemenshad not stirred to interfere._ „(Hear, hear.) The ef-
fect upon his own trade
.would have been to ruin it, or at
leaStto have compelled him to maintain two establishments,
one here and. another in Manchester. (Hear.) He would
therefore ask upon, what principle this council, whose duty
it was, to support and protect the trade of the town, could he -
passive when War., to the very knife, was declared against it
(Hear" hear.). It might he expected, as he had alluded to it,
thaelie shduld-enter 'upon the effect which the hiland bond-
inearltsern 'would have upon the trade of the.•tewn-ss,
SeveralMonaelLLOttfi—".Question, question." •
Mr. 13iSsneta..-,--Why inland bonding bore most distinctly
upon the qeestions-(llear, hear)—and he could readily prove.
inlTyhat mr.ffl, it .would. affect the.trade of Liverpool. if it
were adopted; the manufacturers 'of Manchester would be-
come merchants ; and we, instead of being merchants and
brokers Asave now were,.should become little better than a
community of forwarding agents. (Hear, hear.) That
would-be the effect of the inland bonding system upon the
trade of this town, and he would leave the council to decide
whetherlt. had no reference to the question. • (Bear.) He
wished to-tell those gentlemen that they were inconsiderate
advocates of the trade of Liverpool, when they were passive
at a time when' that trade 'was to be taken from-them, and
active 'claily 'aVlien they had, this bantling of a warehouse
scheme, which the's, were so anxious to nurse into maturity.
With regard to the simple remedies which ought to have
been applied, before they attempted to commit the injustice
which they were about to perpetrate upon the warehouse-
owners, he would read an extract from Mr. Clint's evidence,
given hefere the finance committee.
•• Mr. Alderman EvaNs.--I wish you would call Mr. Clint.
again.
Mi. Buitaeee.s:—lf 'Mr. Alderman Evans wished for that,
it showed' that powers had been at work out of the dock
committee to effect a change. He would not say that powers
had been at work with Mr. Currie, but he must be permitted
to say, that that gentleman's first impressions were most
likely to be just and correct, when lie was staggered at the
evidence, showing the injustice of the contemplated measure.
That time, however, had-gone by. Mr. Currie had changed
his opinions of the evidence ; but he (Mr. Bushell) imputed
no motives to him on that account.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—Then second thoughts are not
always best.
Mr. Bust-ELL would admit that his first impression of
Mr. Evans's book was different to that he now held, and he
had explained the cause, but then he did not leave his room
until he had' read it twice, and upon the second reading his
opinion changed. Mr. Currie, on the other hand, had been
some time in operating the change in his sentiments. To
return to the evidence, Mr.' Clint-said
" The next evil is, that the docks are badly conducted :
Prince's- Dock and George's Dock aie the two central docks,
and most merchants wish to have their vessels near their own
warehouses or offices ' • and the dock masters are anxious to
get the docks crowded. Ido not find fault with the servants
of the trust, for they are all gentlemanly men, [Mr. B. : But
we don't want gentlemanly men, we want working men,] but
with the system. When the Prince's Dock is so full that
there is not room to work the vessels, a merchant comes to
the dock master, and says, ' You must let this ship in.' The
dock-master says hecannot,- because the dock is full. 0
no,' says the merchant, ' there is a small corner there; just
let her in.' The dock-master, being anxious to oblige, does
so ; and thus that dock is crammed, whilst others to the
right and left are comparatively empty."
Now-what would the council say of that system of manage-
Ment which tolerated the employment of such servants?
Here we saw that influence was at work with the dock mas-
tit. to induce him to find room for a vessel although he had
-only a few moments before positively asserted the dock was
quite full ! (Hear.) This, be it remembered, was the opinion
of Mr. Clint, whose evidence before the Finance Committee
was in favour of the scheme, although his opinion was against
it ! But little, more of his testimony :
4` There is another thing I would mention : the dock-master
(I will take the Prince's Dock, for instance) has not suffici-
ent hands to navigate it."
" A great deal could be done, but it would be beginning at
the wrong end, to build warehouses on the present docks."
This.was enough from Mr. Clint's evidence to shew that the
council had not adopted the simple remedies which, in com-
mon justice, they were bound to -use in order to cure the
disease.' :They had not petitioned the Board of Customs, as
they might to have done, for an increase in that establish-
ment-s-a measure which- would have been attended with great
benefit. to merchants and shipowners ; the Dock Committee
Ihatl,not taken every weans to improve their system of ma-
inagement by adding-new cranes and other facilities; and,
without resorting to the milder- remedies, which they ought
tohave clone, they had at once proceeded to the extremity
of ainputation. (Hear.) He might go on and enlarge upon
the inefficiency. of the system ; but he would first ask, what
had. Alancheger
.done that she should have deserved the spe-
cial patronageethis corporate body? (Hear.)
Me. Alderman EVANS and OVIIERS.—Oh, oh !
. Mr. BU.SHELL begged to assure those gentlemen who had
interrupted
Ohirof ~tohaht;
a r
he would, not be put down by their
exclamations
(Cheers.) They must really
listen to him, whether willingly or. otherwise ; and he hoped
they would, as members of that council, pay him the cour-
tesy of lietening 'in silence. (Hear.) He would again ask,
who; betOlapobeste,l,- done ;that they should throw this sop
to her? Was there not,something like government patron-
age at the &Atom' of the scheme which had been proposed in
Manchester? (Hear, hear.) He believed that if the inland
bonding plan had been proposed by any other government
, .•

_

than the present. "liberal" gOverninent, this council would
not have been so passive as they had been—
A CouNcminy. (Mr. RATIIIJONE, we believe).—Oh, oh !
Mr. BusnEee.-011, oh ! sir, but-You must listen! (Ap-
plause.) As tax- payers,he should have thought the council
would have felt their individual interest affected by. the con-
cession of this question, seeing that there must be, in that
case, a second custom -house establishment—one here, and
the other in Manchester. (Hear.) A word or two no*
to Mr. Evans, on his statement that some means must
be devised for emancipation. - (Hear, hear) ,Mr. Evans
could not, in the exercise: of his well-known Ingenuity,
have hit upon a better word to. -suit his (Mr, Bushell's)
purpose. He • would, therefore, tell 'Mr. • Evana"that: the
only honourable or fair means of emancipation was 'by
compensation. - hear.)
.1f the- cm-tacit were. not
.prepared to 'give compenSation, they could not justly: cam
emancipation. NoW, - with regard to_ monopoly, which- had
been spoken of, he maintained they were inconsistent again. -
.Theie advocacy of free trade, in the case of the ioland bond-
ing system, was totally at variance with Monondliairsgsthe
business of warehouse occupiers,`' carters; Ace
(Hear.) . If-they were inconsistent-With regard. to free trade
only, he might have been satiefied.,perhaps;';,,biat he had_
sriaved that they'eittleivenititig
to-give free trade- to; Manchester whilst they aimed at esta-
blishing a monopoly here. (Hear.) Now he' cause-to. that
which was at the bottom of the whole scheme:--namelv,pa-
tronage (Hear, heat.) He defied any body of men to deny
that it' this proposed system were introduced patronage would
be the result, • He was not imputing that this patronage
would be abused ; but he knew so much of the constitution
of public bodies that he- would not give patronage to any of
them ; and if the constitution of this: council were changed
(and he hoped it would be changed ere tong), he would op-
pose any plan for giving into its -hands the power winch
-would necessarily exist if the proposed plan were permitted
to be carried. He need not tell the 'council, what indeed
was well known to the leaders of:the liberal party in' the
town, that .if these warehouses were built choice would be
given to men of their own political sentiments, and the effect
would be that the representation of the town would be in the
hands of the dock trustees. (Oh ! oh !) Now he must con—
tend that it was the duty of this council, before proceeding
to the last extremity, to adopt the plans of sheds and cranes,
to insprove• the dock accommodation, and to -procure an in-
crease •of the custom-house establishment: they would
try this system, say for a period of ten years, and it was not
found to answer, he would then turn round, like Mr. Currie,
and assist them,• (Hear.) • a • - .:- • -
Mr.- Alderman Lt k'rnost said, -the- Custom -house eatita
blishment was not under the control•of the dock trnstees.: -
Mr. BUSHELL was quite aware of that fact, but the dock 'committee might have petitioned for the increase, and no
doubt the request would have been granted. The questibn
was, had they, the dock committee, done all in their power to
improve the trade of the. town. He contended they- hadneal.
that Mr. Clint's evidence-proved, the dock management to be
inefficient ; and that it Was-a very bold proposition to come
-here and attempt to destrOy the wareheuses which they had
fostered. He called upon gentlemen to pause before they
decided this question, for otherwise they would certainly be
. sacrificing the interests of a body which ought. to have. the
protection of the council, inasmuch as their warehouses had
been ,fostered by them.
.- Mr. CuatutF, said great stress had been laid upon the fact
that. the old corporation had fostered the building of these
warehouses. There were but two members of the old council
in the room, and he appealed to them if it was the fact,
that the old corporation did foster the building of warehouses.
The old corporation had sold their land without any restric-
tions whatever of this nature.
Mr. Alderman Emu:Ea—The old corporation did foster it
so far as this --they guarded against warehouses being
built round the clocks ; therefore Mr. -Currie must not say
that. At any rate they sold land at £6 per square yard, and
required that it should only be used for warehmisea.
Mr. Bogner.", had it before him in evidence, and a letter
from Mr. Montgomery, that such was the fact. He would
also ask the Town-clerk whether leases.of land had not been
granted by the corporation, in which it was expressly stipu-
lated thatwarehouses, and nothing hut warehouses, should
be built thereon, and that within the period of two years ?
(" Hear," and a cry of " Adjourn.").
The MANOR said, the member for -Abeicromby Ward Isail
spoken of him as a political partisan: he knew it was in his
personal, and not in his official, capacity. • But he (the
mayor) would and another word, due, he thought, to the
council. lie had been a member of the Watch and Dock
Committees before he occupied that chair, and he would
assert that political patronage had never in any degree been
exercised by any-individual in his public-capacity as- a mem-
ber- of those committees or of the council. He trusted,
therefore, that the idea of political patronage being exercised
by any portion of the council would he abandoned.
Mr. BUSHELL explained, and, in the course of hi a obser-
vations, paid a high compliment to the courtesy and impar-
tiality observed by the may Or. -•-
Mr. Is AAC HOLMES said that he should not have made any
political allusions -; . but as Mr. Blackburn had thought proper
to make allusion thereto, he could not 'avoid it. The gentle-
men .on the other side might disclaim any Wish•to interfere
politically with any of the individuals who might be appointed
to situations under the Dock Committee, but it was, in the
natural course of events that.they will use their influence with
those•voters who would be.placed under their control. Could
it be disputed that there were market-lbokers whowere-mem-
hers of the Reform Association ? • He stated it as a fact, that
there were superintendents and inspectors of police. who had
been solicited to join that association. If the dock trust.did
not wish for patronage by this measure,: why had they not in--
serted a clause in their bill, to prevent any person employed
by the Dock Committee from voting or interfering at elec-
tions, either parliamentary or municipal ? It was notorious
that they weedd employ five or six hundred individuals in the
capacity of coopers, porters, warehouse-keepers, &c., and he
(Mr.' Holnits) had no doubt that the preference would be
l.giverrto those who had voted for the reform candidates. -The
act of parliament to prevent custom-house-officers, &c., froin
voting'at elections,-was in very' feW words,'" Be it enacted
that,: to -pre-serve. the purity of election, that such. Custom-
house-officers &c., ,ball abstain from voting or interfering,
at elections-Under:a heavy penalty." He would refer to what'
had. fallen froin!,Mr. Currie, the chairman of the. Finance
Committee, He was astonished to find that that gentleman
intended to vote against his own measure—that he would
abandon his even offspring. lie(Mr..Holnies) would have
-, thought that_ when the Dock Committee- took the bantling of
his-braie and Whipped and scourged it., that he of all others
would have protected' the child. But no ; he had cast it off,
and he now sent it „te he protected by those
.who Were not its
father. 'Whence cotifd-this change originate how could this
euririaaeoenvettionichge occurred-? .-- Perhaps there was a
source, there might bea. cause.
If we could enter into tlicke regions
.• - Wht,i-fa angels, meet, where CherubiM •
- And seraphim do sing-their strains,.
Rejoicing in their'airength and pOwer,—
• • ';! • The.te is theailace Where discord -ceases;
- where couucillors phange their views, .
• . . And acimieseent to the ruling powers become.
He mosildnosw reply to the observations Of Alderfnin George.
• Holt—a gentleman whom he highly•yepected ; but yet he
could not concur in his opinions. That gentleman instanced
railrbads he said that competition waSallowed in railroads;
and therefore thatnitners of warehonises. Must also expect
competition. But was it not a fact that there was a railroad
projected from Liverpool 'to Leeds, pasaing close by 'Man--
cheater, but that parliament would netentertain the measure,
as they considered it was an improper interference? Those
gentlemen who wished to try experimentS in WarehouSe
build-
ing, had better go to the projected.port of Fleetwood ; for, as
to this port they could not alter it. Warehouses were already
erected; and it would •be an het of injaatiee to the Warelibuse
owners to build warehousesin- competition with those already
existing. What was the proportion of the warehouses now
sought for? There were '320 bonding warehouses at present in
Liverpool. The number the dock estate now wanted,to build
would bear the proportion of about 140 to 320 ; it would of
course destroy that property. He would ,however, instance-what
might- be the-case : if there was in a place .100 warehouses,
and only 90 wanted, whatwould the owners of the 10 untenanted
warehouses do ?' They would offer at a lower rent, to induce
some: of those who occupied the others to change their tenant-
cies, and thus they would continue to offer at one price or
other until rents were reduced about 30 per cent'. • As to
Warehouses facilitating the discharge, it was known that if
there were no impediments from the Custom-house or from
some other source, vessels could readily be discharged. He
(Mr. Holmes) might mention, that he was authorised by Mr.
Samuel Perry to say, that let him take•horses to any vessel
Of 500 or 600 tons, having an assorted cargo on •board, and
he would discharge her in twelve hours. (Laughter.) Gen-
tlemen might laugh ; he himself smiled' when Mr. Perry
made the assertion ; but that gentleman went on to assert,
that if two steamers were to arrive in the morning tide,
with from two to three hundred tons in each, they could not
only discharge them, but they could load them, and have
them ready to go out at the evening's tide. Mr. Holmes
also instanced the dreadful situations in which those persons
would be placed who had mortgaged warehouses. One indi-
vidual had said, " I own warehouses to-the value of £30,000,
but have mortgages of ,C 20,000 npon them : if this bill should
pass, I shall be beggared. Mr- Holmes noticed the re-
marks of Mr. Evans as tnAlse,Value of the warehouse pro-
perty in the town.. Mr. Evaina said e,-was only about two
millions instead of four. If that were the fact, it increased
the proportion of Warehpataevonght. for instead of a small
per tentage, they wantest;s;,tapr,v9t. But Mr. Evans.said
that there was conSolatitin ro AC warehouse-owners in this
reduced estimate : they had Only two millions to lose instead
of four. Why, would it, be any consolation to a beggar, to
tell hiM there were only 100.0. beggars instead of 2000 ? It
was an insulting expression. •
The TOWN-CLERK, in answer to Mr. Bushell's question,
said it was perfectly clear that in the leases of land it was co-
venanted that warehouses should be erected within from two
to three years. The leases referred to would be found ac-
curately stated in pagei 43 to 46 of the Finance Committee's
report. In those covenants the parties were bound to erect
warehouses ;, but there was no pledge as to how the corpora-
tion would deal with their' other property near the docks. -He
had thought it his duty to 'advise the Finance Committee that
there was no such pledge—no ground of charging the corpo-
ration with a breach of faith, nor any ground on the part of the
warehouse-owners to ask for compensation.
Mr. COOPER strongly objected to the original motion. He
was not a warehouse-owner himself; but he should oppose,
he would not say the building of warehouses at all on the
dock quays, but thebuilding of them by the dock trust out
of the public funds, to the injury of private enterprise. Mr.
Holt had endeavoured to bring down the value of the ware-
house property to a very low ebb; but it had been clearly
shown that bonded cellars, such. as those under the Royal
Bank, had been left out in the calculation which had been
put forth by the warehouse proprietors, and it had also been
clearly proved that £2,400,000 had actually been borrowed
on mortgage on that property. Mortgagees never lent more
than two-thirds of the real value, so that this would give a
clear value of £3,700,000.
Mr. MATHER rose to speak, but as the council were grow-
ing very impatient, he asked whether they were willing to ad-
journ. The question . was: replied:to, by inutLeriesnf."
no.”. Mr: M. then briefly expressed his opposition to the
Original motion. The proposal of the Finance Committee,
that transit sheds should be so erected that they might after-
wards be raised in height, and become, in fact, warehouses,
would have perfectly met his view.
Mr. DUNCAN said that as he could not bring forward an
amendment, as he had intimated, he should not vote either
for the motion or amendment.
Mr. EVANS having replied, the vote -was- taken. The
amendment of Mr. Booth was negatived by a majority of 34
to 27.
For the amendment there voted—
Councillors—Hodgson, J. Holmes, I. Holmes, Houghton,
Preston, Sandbach, Frankland, Wright; Barton, Sands, H.
Holmes, Cooper, J. Lawrence, Robinson, H. Lawrence,
Wood, Gladstone, Bushell, Rigby, Jones, G.-H. Lawrence,
Leigh and Smith. Aldermen—Booth, Jones, Earle and
Preen.

Against the amendment—
Councillors—Quayle, Thornhill, Mellor, Pileher, Bolton,
Priestley, Woollwright, Bright, Rathbone, Hornbv, Yates,
Blackburn, Moreeroft, Seger, Coglan, Platt, Wltee, Jor.
dan, Duncan, Currie and Mather. Aldermen—Sheil,
Hornby, Roskell, Leathom, G. Holt, Benn, Moon, Evans,
Barclay, Bulley, T. Holt, Harvey, and the Mayor.
Absent—Messrs. Case, Lassell, and Carson.
For the original motion there voted 33; against it 28. -The
voting in this instance was reversed, excepting in the case of
Mr. Duncan, who voted against the motion as well as the
amendment.
The principle of the measure having thus been affirmed,
Mr. Lawrence intimated that he should not, as he saw that
it would be useless, press his motion ; but he should avail
himself of the right to oppose the question of management.
Mr. EARLE inquired whether the, council would have the
power to object to the management of the warehouses, now
that the principle was affirmed. It was important tbat.they
should have a clear daderitaudieg on that pbint.

The MAYOR replied in the affirmative ; but( Mr., -Earle
Wished that the town-clerk should give his opinion. -
The TOWN-CLERK said that it appeared to him that neither,
in the resolutions of the 2d of October,. nor in the motion of
Mr. Evans, was there any thing conclusive as to the manage-
ment, and therefore the question might be gone into.
The MAYOR intimated that the council would then adjourn
until the following morning, at half-past eleven o'clock, when
the clauses of the bill would be taken into separate considera-
tion.
To this there was some objection on the part of Mr. Earle
and others ; who were desirous that the council should be ad-
journed until FridaY, in orderthat thev might have an oppor-
tunity of consulting: with their friends as to what course
should now be pursued.. The members of the Dock Com-
mittee, however, .stated tbatthere was not a single .day to.
lose, and the council ultimately decided to adjourn until
Thursday morning, at half-past .eleven o'clock..
-The council did not break up until a quarter to five.