The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1849-10-16 00:00:00

TO THE CONSERVATIVE COMMITTEE OF
EVERTON AND KIRKDALE WARD.

What is the reason there is no candidate announced to
contest this ward, and the election so near? Is there no
gentleman sufficiently anti-Pike in this great and wealthy
ward, or have they too great an objection to sit with their
present members ? At all events, the ward should not
be allowed to fall completely into the hands of the Radi-
cals when we have such men as Mr. Castellain, Mr. Adam
Hodgson, Mr. Francis Shand, with many others, to bring
forward. AN EVERTON DOCK-RATER.

ANCIENT DRUIDS.--Lord Brougham and his lordship's
brother, Wan, Brougham, Esq., have Iwo= members of
the Northern Lights' budge, Peurith.

IMP ORTANT AND EXTRAORDINARY MEETING
OF THE ELECTORS OF RODNEY-STREET WARD.

MR. S. HOLME AND HIS CONSTITUENTS.

Last night, on the invitation of Mr. S. Holme, the
retiring member for Rodney-street Ward, a meeting of
the electors of that ward was held at the Music-hall, Bold-
street, for the purpose of hearing an explanation from
Mr. Holme as to his conduct during the past three years
in the council ; and also to answer any questions which
might be put to him by the electors. The meeting was
convened for seven o'clock, and before that hour the space
in front of the Hall was partially occupied by the friends,
we believe, not of Mr. Ilolme, but of the National Con-
federation. When the room was filled there would be
about 1200 persons, all of whom appeared of the most
respectable order of society, and we feel convinced the
majority of them the friends of Mr. Holme.
Shortly before one o'clock, the chairman of the Conser-
vative association of the ward, Mr. R. A. Payne, together
with some of Mr. Holme's friends and supporters, entered

the room, amidst partial cheers.
On taking the chair, Mr. PAYNE observed that most of
the gentlemen whom he then saw before him were aware
that he was the chairman belonging to the Conservative
association of this important and influential ward, and as
such he was the chairman of Mr. Holme's committee
for conducting his election to the council chamber, on
the Ist of November next. He had requested him (the
chairman) to take the chair for him, and that request he
complied with with great pleasure. He did so for two rea-
sons—let, because the meeting was called for good reasons ;
2ndly, because it afforded him the opportunity of testifying
to the excellent good character of Mr. Holme; and also
because it enabled him to allude to the great public good,
which Mr. Holme had conferred upon the town at large,
during his career in the Council. It would not become
him to make any remarks upon the general features of
Mr. Holme's public conduct, nor on the course which had
been pursued towards him by his opponents •, but still he
was constrained to speak of two letters, which had recently
appeared in the newspapers. He regretted the writing of
these letters, and he regretted also the publication of these
letters. The letters to which he alluded were, first, the
letter from Mr. Proctor, chairman to Mr. Jones, and the
other was the reply to that letter from Mr. Holme. He
regretted the writing of the first letter, because it assumed
that this meeting was an unfair meeting—that it had been
unfairly convened—an assumption which he (the chair-
man) totally denied. It would be recollected that three
years ago, when Mr. Holme was brought from the
quiet of private life to be the representative of Rod-
ney-street Wart!, the town was quite inundated with
addresses against him—addresses of greater length
than usual :—what did he then do ? He thought it right,
after so much clamour, that he should call together the
electors of this ward, in order to hear his opinions upon
all subjects, and to hear the objections of every one of the
electors. That had always been his (Mr. Holme's) de-
sire; and in accordance with that desire he called a meeting
of his constituents, the result of which was—if they re-
fered to it—that so far from that meeting being regarded as
an unfair meeting ; it was not only looked upon as being a
very fair meeting, but they would remember that a gentle-
man—a stanch reformer—at the close of the meeting
proposed Mr. Holme as a proper person to repre-
sent the ward in the Council. He would, however,
notice a remark that if Mr. Holme wished to
convince the electors of the ward that his course
in the Council was right, it might be considered that
he had no right to do so before any tribunal except
before a body of his own con-tituents; that in ordinary
cases might be a fair mode of convening a meeting; but
it would not be unfair on his part if he thought it right
that upon such an important question as this, he would
desire to address the public at large ;—(here, here)—and
that those who wished for information on this subject,
(the Rivington Pike,) should also be present. (Hear,
hear.) Mr. Holme was to be brought up at the next
election as a candidate for the ward, and a gentleman—
Mr. Jones, whose character was such that most of them
would be glad to see him in the Council as their represen-
tative. (Loud cheers.) In addition to this he was a
gentleman who had much time to devote to the affairs of
the tows, and he Lad talents to commend him, a requisite
which all men who went to that assembly needed ; but he
would ask them, why was it that Mr. Jones was opposed
to Mr. Holme? The reaeon was obvious. They were
both of them Conservatives—both of them agreed upon all
questions but one ; and that question was, as to what
quarter of the world they were to have an increased sup-
ply of water from. (Cheers.) If Mr. Holme differed
from Mr. Jones on only one point in the whole of their
political creed, he should like to ask if it were desirable
or politic to have a gentleman put up against another
merely because he happened to differ from him upon one
point alone? (Loud cries of yes.) It was necessary to
observe that Mr. Jones was supported by various par-
ties ; and such being the case, he must necessarily be
supported by persons who will upon some points of
general politics give up many of their consciencious
opinions in doing so. (Loud cries of no, no.) Then
if so, why should they not also give up a trifle of their
differences. (No, no.) If it were necessary to support
every person on every point, he for one could not go with
Mr, Holme, for he could not go with him for taxing the
Docks of Liverpool; but be that as it might they were
there for another object than to talk of politics. Mr. Holme
having seen so many points named in the newspapers—
many of them false no doubt—came to give them an op-
portunity of hearing him—if they would embrace that
opportunity—and he was also there to answer any objec-
tion which might be made by any gentleman in the ward,
or any question connected with his public conduct during
thepast three years. With theseremarks he hoped that they
would be quiet because lie knew it would take Mr. Holme
a considerable time to state his views to the electors. Ho
had no more to say at present, and would therefore con-
fine himself to his duty, by calling upon Mr, Holme.
Mr. S. HOLME then came forward to address the meet-
ing, and was loudly applauded. He said the period had
nearly elapsed when he should have to resign into their
hands the trust which had been reposed in him, and the
period had arrived when an opportunity was afforded him,
in the face of his fellow-townsmen, of answering those
aspersions which had been cast upon him. (Hear.) He
courted publicity on every occasion, and felt it a whole-
some thing for a representative to meet his constituents,
to render an account of his stewardship. It was an easy
matter for a man, on such occasions, to shrink
from public discussion not very palatable, but those who
did so acted a pusilanimous part. (Hear, hear.) No
man ought to shrink from expressing his opinions in a
deliberative assembly freely and frankly, and it was not
more the duty than the privilege of the constituency, if
they disagreed with those opinions, to reject him.
(Applause.) Since lie had entered the Council chamber,
in obedience to the demands of the electors, many impor-
tant questions had been discussed, and many
differences of opinion had been expressed ; but on
no one occasion had he shrunk from honestly and
conscientiously stating what were his views, and acting
according to his deliberate judgment, and if his conduct
did not meet with their approbation they bad the remedy
in their own hands. (Cheers.) Although, however, he
was willing to acknowledge the duty and responsibility of
the representative, yet he would not be content to sit in
any assembly as a mere delegate. (Loud cheers.) When
he first ventured to offer himself as a candidate for muni-
cipal honours, he did so on these grounds, which he ex-
plicitly stated ; that he would enter no assembly—take part
in no debate—nor represent the opinions of any section
of his fellow-townsmen, sinless he could do so in an open,
fearless, and independent manner, setting at defiance all
insinuation and cavil. (Loud cheers.) He had been
subject to much misrepresentation to which he had quietly
submitted until he had the opportunity of acquitting him-
self before his constituents, and explaining to them the
reasons of his votes. Ile would never advocate a single
measure either in the Council chamber or any
where else, which he was not fully prepared to
defend, and therefore, on the present occasion he trusted
they would afford him a calm and patient hearing. (Hear,
and cheers.) He had been for this seriously attacked by
the public press, but he was not so thin skinned as to
wince under such castigation, for on looking within, he
felt that conscience acquitted him of any sinister motives,
and therefore he could set at defiance the whole press of
England. (Cheers.) Toe:lumbers of those present he had
been known from his boyhood, and could safely appeal to
them whether those aspersions were just or not ? (Hear.)
He, however, wished into be understood that he did not
intend to undervalue the public press of this country, for
with all its faults it was most essential, and he cherished
its freedom as much as any one could do—for, notwith-
standing allits blemishes, and they were not few, it kept
public men honest—it was a wholesome corrector of
abuses—it elicited information—it diffused intelligence,
and though it sometimes degenerated into personalities,
yet it was generally conduoted by independent and honest
men. (Hear, bear, and cheers.) He (Mr. Holme)
had sustained from it as much criticism as any one,
on his public conduct, yet he would not have it deprived
of one scintilla of its brilliant liberty, and should continue
to receive its rebukes with independent humility, and
endeavour to profit by them. (Applause.) He had been
induced to make these remarks because numerous letters
had been addressed to him through the public papers,
many of which were ungenerous and unjust, but he felt
that the man who could not present an invulnerable
front to such charges had better decline taking part in
public affairs. (Cheers.) There were two principal
questions which bad of late engaged not only the atten-
tion of the Council, but also the public at large. There
were many other subjects which, to those who thought
profoundly, and took expansive views of our position,
appeared of much more importance than either, but on
one of these he had the misfortune to differ with many of
his constituents. (Hear and cheeps.) The first of these
was the water question, and as far as he had been enabled
to read the papers, the objections to his conduct might be
divided into three heads :—First, that the corporation
had obtained an act of parliament which was not needed,
secondly, that the inhabitants had been greatly
deceived on the subject by the Council; and thirdly,
that as there was plenty of water under our feet, we had
no need to go to a distance for it, especially as the supply
from Rivington was insufficient in quantity and bad in
quality. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the first point,
in the year 1843-4 it became painfully evident that the
public companies could not give to this enormous popula-
tion a sufficient supply of water. Complaints loud and
general existed on this subject. The companies had
capitalised large sums out of their incomes, and vet
the water rates were kept up to their full price, in
order to pay large dividends, so that the shares, on
which £230 was chargeable, had risen to £950. (Hear,
hear.) In consequence of these complaints, the High-
way Board went to Parliament, armed with powers from
a public meeting of the inhabitants, and Green-lane was
the result. Tney, however, could only supply water for
public purposes, such as watering the streets, and ex-
tinguishing fires, for Parliament prohibited the use
of the water for domestic purposes. (Hear.) The
consequence of the scanty supply which was furnished
led to &correspondence between himself and Mr. Harmood
ISaw ert whieli excited no little interest in the minds of

public, the result of which was that the Highway Board
instituted an inquiry, which was pursued with praiseworthy
alacrity from house to house, and from court to court by
Mr. Procter, Mr. Walthew, Mr. Bage, Mr. Denton, and
others, and they laid before the Board a mass of evidence
which developed a most frightful state of things. (Hear.)
The Board again determined to go to Parliament, also
sanctioned by a public meeting, but with a determination
to obtain powers to increase the domestic supply of the
town. (Hear, hear.) This Bill was founded on a
report of Mr. Simpson to the effect that the supply was to
be obtained from the river Alt to the extent of 8,000,000
gallons, at a cost of £250,000, and the supply from the
Green-lane works was to be increased from 1,500,000
to 2,000,000 gallons. Then the town was urging the
Highway Board on to obtain this 10,000,000 gallons, but
there was a very general feeling abroad that even this
quantity was insufficient. (Hear, hear.) A third public
meeting was then held, when, on the motion of Mr.
Blackburn, which was an amendment upon a motion of
his, (Mr. Holme) it was carried that the Highway
Board should be extinguished, and that the water works
should become the pronerty of the Corporation. This
was contrary to his (Mr. Holme's) opinion, for he had
always thought that there should be an independent body
who should possess those works. Mr. Holme then read
the memorial which was presented to the Council on the
subject at the time, and signed by the Guardian Society
and 5,200 of the inhabitants, expressive of a wish for a
' greater supply of water. Thus the Council were urged
on, not only by the memorial
,to which he referred, but
also by every newspaper in Liverpool, to obtain progres-
sion of the water works ; and after an investigatir n of the bill
before parliament, the clause drawn up by Mr. Shuttleworth,
giving the option of doing so to the Corporation, was struck
out, and a compulsory clause inserted. Mr. Holme then re-
ferred to the powers given by that bill, and noticed the Bala Lake
and Holywell schemes, the latter of which, he believed, would
have cost €2,000,000 at least. He then quoted from the Journal
extracts, showing that their opinions differed from those now
maintained by that paper, one sentence of which was—" Water
for domestic use should not be derived from strata under the
town." (Hear, hear.) The speaker then at length showed that
the Guardian Society and the Mercury had advocated a -consi-
derably increased supply; that at the time the question was
first brought before the Council ; those opposed to the
scheme had little chance of being elected: and that the
addresses of the candidates at the time were in favour it. The
Rivington plan was well known; it was publicly discussed in
the Sessions'-house, the public knew as much of it as the
Council, and no two gentlemen were more urgent about the
matter than Messrs. John Smith and H. G. Harbord, though
Mr. Ambrose Lace urged the necessity of delay until the plan
was maturely considered in all its details. (Cheers.) What
object could such men as Mr. Hugh Hornby, Mr. James
Aikin, Mr. Thomas Berry Horsfall, or Mr. Swainson, have
in supporting such a scheme unless it was for the benefit
of the town. (Cheers.) They were too honourable to advocate
it from sinister motives. (Applause.) The speaker then pro-
ceeded to combat the charge, that the council had grossly de-
ceived the burgesses, and in doing so quoted articles from the
Mercury, in which the scheme was advocated at length. On
the third head, he observed that when first the scheme was
propounded, he freely confessed that be was sceptical as to its
utility—that he gave no opinion upon it until he had thoroughly
considered it ; but having made himself master of the subject he
determined to give a decided but independent vote in its favor.
He declared that his only reason for supporting the measure
was because he thought it most likely to ameliorate the condi-
tion of the town generally, and of the working classes in parti •
cular. (Applause.) If, however, it was the opinion of the
town that the scheme should be abandoned, he was willing
to be relieved of the burthen of representing them ; but,
he should feel that he was excluded from the Council
not upon any great principle, but upon a question of mere
financial detail. (Chsers.) They should, however, consider
that they had mighty interests to protect—that the
nation itself was identified with the good management
of the port of Liverpool, through whose portals was poured
into England one-fifth of its foreign commerce, and whose
ships were found in every clime and country. (Loud
cheers.) After expressing his approval of the scheme for
rating the docks, the hon. gentleman concluded a powerful
address amid loud cheers.
Mr. WM. SEARLE, of 21, Harford-street, then rose and
said that he had been listening to Mr. S. Holme for a
long time, and every word he had heard from him, and
every one of his speeches which he had read in the news-
papers—(groans, hisses, and confusion)—and every one of
them which he had either seen or listened to was merely a
waste of time. (Order.) He meant by that expression when
a man said one thing one day and gainsaid it. again the
next. (Hear, hear, cheers, and laughter.) When a man
said one thing to day, and said it back again to-morrow,
they had no right to fancy that his conversation was at
all valuable. (Hear, hear.) If he said things to-day
which were beneficial to the ratepayers, they took it nice
and believed if ; but if he said it back again the next
day, they left it alone. (Laughter and confusion.)
At one time (loud cries of " question ") At one time
he was very strongly (confusion and cries of " question ")
very strongly in favour— (Great confusion.) He had a
right to speak and he would be heard. (Cheers.) He
said again that he had a right to speak as well as Mr.
Holme, and— (a voice, " He's a teetotaller).
The CHAMAlAN.—Gentlemen--_(Confusion, in which

...... _____..
the chairman's voice was drowned. When order was some-
what restored, the Chairman continuedito say that this
meeting was called by Mr. Holme to address the electors.
Mr. SEARLE.—I am one of them. (A voice, " Jones.")
The CITAIRMAN.—And to answer any question which
the electors may think fit to put to him. We will be
happy to hear this gentleman if he has any question to put.
(A voice—" He is a teetotaller.")
Mr. SEARLE.—By way of cutting this meeting short, I
will not give him the trouble of answering any question,
but will just say to the meeting, do you recollect the time
when Mr. Holme spoke the truth on the water question,
and when he published a pamphlet on that subject, and
said there were thousands upon thousands of gallons
of water to he found in the wells, if properly managed
(great uproar, and loud cries of " get out") —but
then he said the other thing next day. (Cries of put
him down.) Yes, he said again, in Council that he was
opposed to the home supply, and in favour of the Pike.
(Cheers and confusion.) I won't sit down for you, 1 will
confine myself to the truth, and I will speak the truth, no
matter what you may say. (Cheers.) Tis a meeting of
electors, and they ought to know what he has to say,
and what he has done in his place in the Council.
[Here a scene of the utmost confusion prevailed. Ten
spoke at once ; Mr. Holme, Mr. &Arlo, and the chair-
man, were all on their legs together, and the cries and
confusion in the body of the room was almost indescri-
bable.] When silence was in some slight degree restored,
Mr. SEARLE continued—Only hear me for a moment,
gentlemen ; I am very glad to—(cries of " chair, chair,"
order, order.")—No one present is more glad—
The CHAIRMAN.—Hear me fora moment—
Mr. SEARI.E.—No' I wont. lam very glad to find
that neither Mr. Holme nor his friends and partizans can
bear to hear the truth. (Loud cries of " chair," and
confusion, in the midst of which Mr. Searle resumed his
seat.) Here there were loud and continuous cries for
Dr. Harbord, when
Dr. Hannonn rose from his seat, on which
The CHAIRMAN rose and said—Gentlemen, we should
be glad—(loud cries of " Dr. Harbord, and no mistake !")
—we should be glad to hear Mr. Harbord put any ques-
tion to Mr. Holme, and also to hear him answering it;
but as Mr. Harbord is not a voter in the ward, therefore
he cannot question Mr. Holme. (Oh ! oh 1) But if any
voter in the ward thinks that Mr. Harbord's mode of
putting a question is better than his own, then it. is per-
fectly open for Dr. Harbord to put such a question. (Loud
cheers.)
Mr. HARBORD again rose, when he was interrogated by
the Chairman, who said :—Have you any question to put ?
Are you a voter of the ward ?
Mr. HARBORD.—I have been called upon by the meet-
ing, and i have been called upon by you sir—(hear, hear.
and cheers)—and if now, after I have complied with that
call, you will insist on it, that I should shut my mouth,
all I can say is, that it is with pain that I will shut it.
I say that I attended here this evening believing that Mr.
Holme, in his letter to Mr. Proctor, meant what he there
said. Had this been a meeting of Mr. Holme's friends
to decide upon his fitness to represent this ward, and if he
had attended here, only before persons who belonged to
the ward, and who were therefore, as in all ward meetings,
entitled to take part in the proceedings; and if he intended
to address himself to his constituents only, he would have
taken good care to exclude every person else from the
room ; but I tell you that Mr. Holme has to-night thrown
the gauntlet to the public, and dared any man to take it
up. (Loud cheers, groans, and confusion.)
The CHAIRMAN.—If you have any question to put, put
it through an elector.
Mr. HARBORD.—Gentlemen—(yells, confusion, groans,
and intermingled with counter cheers, accompanied with
cries of " Chair, chair.")—Gentlemen, I will be heard,
whether you " chair, chair," or not. I ask you for the
fair play of an Englishman ;—(no, no,)—l ask you for
that which Mr. Holme demanded at the Sessions-house
when he was one of a minority of only seven. I ask you,
as Englishmen, to obey the chairman, and the chairman
has decided that I am not to speak; but, as being
the mouth-piece of an elector of the ward, and when
the chairman from his elevated position ;—I beg par-
and when the Chairman from his elevated position ;—I beg
pardon for the last expression, for, Gentlemen, I do not con-
sider his position as very elevated to-night,—although at all
times I am willing to obey the voice of the chairman—although
at all times I respect the voice of the chairman, no;matter how
that important office may be filled—(Here the speaker was met
with a terrific burst of disapprobation, mingled with cheers.)
Although I respect the chairman at all times, I do not respect
the manner in which that high and important office has been
filled to-night. (Confusion, with cries of put him out.) I will
stop here till twelve o'clock to night, or I will get a hearing.
(Cheers.)
Mr. HOLME.—Do hear Mr. Harbord.
Mr, HA RHORD.— I should—
Mr. HOLINIE.—I will get you a hearing. (No, no.)
Mr. HARBORD.—I should have been—(loud groans and other
discordant sounds)—done long since if you had allowed me.
(Ironical cheers>) I will have done in a moment.
Mr. HOLME.—I want to get you a hearing if I can. (Loud
cries of " sit down," "send him out.") I beseech you to hear
Mr. Harbord.
Mr. HARBORD.—Once for all, I am about to gratify the
friends of Mr. Holme, and the friends of the Pike scheme, by
not saying a word more to-night. (Cries of "go on.") I was
only about to say this, that anxious as I am to obey the chair-
man, and as he has declared that no discussion shall take place
in this room to night, and as the public will be able to put their
own construction upon and attach their own valve to your pro-
ceedings, I will say no more about it.
(Mr. Harbord immediately retired from the room.)
Mr. Bwrry.r,v asked what the water rent on £2O houses was
during the old Water Company's time, as contrasted with the
present water rent of the same class of property?
Mr. HOLME.—Under the old companies £5 10s. per annum,
and under the water committee ~t 4 10s. (Cheers.)
Mr. DETTELY.—What will be the water rent of this property
after the Pike scheme has been consummated?
Mr. HOLME.—About the same, and about the year 1855 the
water rents will be reduced.
Mr. JOHN DOWNEY—What was Mr. Holme's motive for pro-
posing an amendment, and demanding a poll on Mr. Jeffery's
motion at the special vestry?
Mr. HOLME—I demanded a poll for the purpose of testing
the feeling of the inhahi:ants of Liverpool on this question.
Mr. DOWNEY—And why not be satisfied, when you found
that the inhabitants at large were opposed to you?
Mr. HoLME.—I beg to say that I did withdraw from the poll
because, on the second morning, I found that the inhabitants did
not think much about the matter, only thirty of them having
voted on that day; and after that, in my place in council, I
said, that except so far as supporting the committee to pay for
their existing contracts, I would not do anything ; and I also
gave my hearty consent to have the whole motto: left to three
eminent engineers. (Hisses.)
Mr. DOWNEY.—Mr. Chairman and gentlemen—

5 ,

The CHAIRMAN.—No, no, question.
Mr. DowNay.—Then will you not allow me to make any
comment upon the opinions advanced by Mr. Holme?
• The CHAtitmAN.—No, sir. (Groans and counter cheering.)
Mr. JOSEPII Gitonv wished to ask Mr. Holme why it was
that Mr. Holme found fault with Mr. Cardwell at the town's
meeting on the navigation laws for differing from his constitu-
ents?

air. HOLME.—Mr. Cardwell went into Parliament pledged
against the repeal of the Navigation Laws. I went into the
Council pledged to obtain for the town an increased supply of
water. That is the difference.

After some further questions from Mr. Groby, none of
which were of importance. the meeting was addressed by Mr.
MELLOW, who concluded a brief speech by proposing Mr.
Holme as a fit and proper person to represent the ward in
Council.
This motion haven; been seconded by Mr. W ALEX. SMITH,
Mr. ROWLANDSaN proposed, and Mr. CULSHAW seconded,
an amendment to the effect, that inasmuch as the meeting had
not had a fair opportunity of discussing the statements made
by Mr. Ho!me. that he was not considered by the meeting a fit
and proper person to represent the ward in the Council.
On the motion being put, the amendment was lost ny a con-
siderable majority.
Mr. HoLsts then briefly returned thanks to the meeting,
and, having proposed a vote of thanks to the Chairman, which
was carried by acclamation, the meeting separated at a quarter
to 10 o'clock.