The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-18 00:00:00

Country, especially as compared between churchmen and
dissenters—if that be in the bag, I predict it will be nothing
better than waste paper. And provided, I say, it goes before
a committee of the House -of Commons, I am prepared to
stand before that committee, and prove it to be so, as far as
my own knowledge. goes : and that if it is at other places, as
it is where 1.• live, these papers tell what is false. I would
speak this fact broadly,. and I am.not afraid to do it in Lon-
don, as I have done elsewhere. At Cheltenham the dis-
senters returned 82G more'claildren to Government than they
have in: their schools. (Hear.) When I proclaimed this,
the return had not been sent-mit of that own, . and the Secre-
tary cif the Sunday-school ran to the registry-office, and wiped
out 350 at once ! It was 'certainly a confirmation of what I
said in nubile' to say nothing-of the returns, which were 350
leSs.; yeti at the present moment,.the Lancastrian schools in
'Cheltenham have returned.'3Bo, and returned them twice
over. (Hear and laughter.).' Now I will prove this statement
to a nicety, When we all most -joyfully. net on the day of
the coronation of our youthful Queen, we met very loyal and
very hungry, and it was agreed that we should ' pay by the
mouth. There we were, churchmen and dissenters, joining
in holy rivalry ; we all sat down in the market-place, and sang
together, and were very good. friends throughout; but rather
an awkward circumstance occurred when ' the mouths' came
to be paid for; it appeared that the church ' mouths' ex-
ceeded the dissenting ' mouths' by G2O ; and notwithstand-
ing you admit the alteration of the able Secretary of the Sun-
day-school at Cheltenham, you will find there is a difference
still, of somewhere about 400, between the mouths on the
day of the coronation, and the recorded numbers in the pocket
of Lord John Russell. (Cheers.) Now, my lord, .1 know
it would be a bad argument to state. though I am not an Ox-
ford man, that, if this has taken place at Cheltenham, it has
taken place elsewhere, and perhaps everywhere else. I put
it hypothetically ; I think it highly probable. I don't think
worse of the dissenters at Cheltenham than of those at any
other place ; but putting it hypothetically, as I before said, if
the returns from other places are as accurate as they are from
Cheltenham; and if her Majesty's Government shall iotheir
wisdom proceed to legislate on those facts, I shall not be pre-
pare& to say with Canning that ' all facts are false,' but
that their facts are as false as their-principles, and their legis-
lative enactments framed on their facts are far worse. (Hear.)
So much for the bao• of Lord John Russell, and as to what
May yet be in it ; but I suapect that this meeting, and similar
ones throughout the country, will stifle a great deal of what
is in the bag, and that we shall never.see it at all." This
prophecy of. the rev. gentleman was fulfilled. (Hear, hear.) I,
A. great deal of what was in the bag.remains there still, for
anything we know; but something of the 'kind, either from .;
that or some similar bag, did get out, and was adopted by the
government, in order to be introduced in the report of the
privy council. lam grieved to be compelled to throw dis-
credit on an authority which ought to he above reproach,
by the exposure which it is my duty to make; and I shall do
it from a tract just published by the Rev. Mr. Wilberforce,
in the form of a letter addressed to Lord Lansdowne. The
instance. in question- refers to the, eoinbiried districts of St:-
John's and St, Margaret's, Westminster. Concerning the
comparative proportions of children educated in that district
by the church and by dissenters, the report of the privy coun-
cil states the average-attendance at church schools to be 579,-
and. the average attendance at dissenters' schools to be 839.
This sounds well for dissent, :and' answers a purpose for the
fabricators .of statistics. But unfortunately for the success
of any Such purpose, several
.5-;:entlemen residing in St.
John's, Westminster, and astonished .by the statement of
of the privy. council, litniting..the amount of church educa-
tion in that district to 579 children, datermined to institute
a close and accurate investigation. The result is thus stated
by Mr, Robert Wilberforce, for which he says his authority
is the Rev. J. Jennings, Rector of St. John's.

CHURCH SCHOOLS. Average
• Attendance.
In St. Margaret's and St. John's, (common
to both parishes.)
Central National School . 320
• . .
88
Seven endowed Schools
20
20
30
Workhouse Schools - 135
In St. Margaret's.
Knightsbridge Green

Broadway S;hool (Sunday)
Miss Neave's School
Wellington Barracks' School
Knightsbridge Barracks' School

Iri St. John's.

Tufton-street
Sunday Schools.. Vincent-square 750
Old Pie-street
Day scholars, chiefly infants, not attending the
Sunday Schools 570

Total Church Scholars....
DISSENTING SCHOOI.S.

2780
Average
Attendance

In St. Margaret's.

..
Independent's, William-street
Nevi Pie-street, (two schools) 100
Dr. Morrisson's School, (a Sunday school)
In St. John's. _

-.
Wesleyan School, Horseferry-road--Boys l4l
Girls
Baptist's, Romney-street—Boys
Girls

Romanists, Horseferry-road--Boys
Girls
Lancastrian. School

Total Dissenters
Thus, in a district where the compiler of a return,'deemed
sufficiently accurate for adoption by the Privy Council, could
find only 579 children in church schools, a less interested
and more careful examination of the parish gives the names
and the numbers of a list of schools which present an ag-
gregateof two thousand seven hundred and eighty. (Cheers.)

I do think, Sir, this is sufficient to mile sensible• and
candid men cautious, before they receive the statistics of dis-
senters; although endorsed by the Privy Council, as-the basis
of any important argument, or of any practical decision.
(Hear, hear.) But granting liberally as I said at first, that
the Dissenters'do communicate as much instruction as the
church, there remain still, in the language of the resolution,
vast masses of the population Of Eugfand and. Wales in a state
of spiritiiiii destitution. (Hear, hear.) In truth, 'the. fact
itself is not now denied. Men of all parties are compelled
to.admit it : however they may differ as to the right mode of
aiming at a remedy, they are compelled, by evidence too pain-
fully convincing, to admit the'existence of the disease. I take
a passage from a speech of Mr. Slaney, delivered at the begin-
ning of this month in the House of Commons, upon the ques-
tion of the causes of the existing discontent in the country.
Mr. Slaney is thus reported—" Another point to which
he begged attention was the want of religious instruction in
the inanufiecturing districts. In Manchester there was
churchroom for only 26000, while the number which ought
to be provided for was 108,000. Bid, what was still worse,
four out of five in many of those districts had no means of
attending public worship. Even seven out of eight in the
large towns, such as Liverpool and Manchester, were totally
destitute of religious instruction. He would ask the house
how these people could with justice be punished for crime,
when no opportunity has ever been given to them to learn
what was their duty ?" (Hear.) I need not delay you fur-
ther on this branch. of the subject, but advance to the
second statement in the resolution, which is, " that where-
ever such destitution exists, the poorer classes are the first
and the chief sufferers." (Hear.) This consequence of
such destitution follows inevitably from the cause of the des-
titution. The cause is a want of endowed ministers, and the
consequence is, that those who cannot afford to endow their
own ministers, or pay for their own sittings, must go with-
out. (Hear, hear.) Under the system now advocated and
sanctioned-by many, and very elegantly. described by Mr.
Daniel O'Connell, that " every man should pay his own mi-
nister as he does his own tailor," the rich may have a minis-
ter as they have a coat ; but the poor man who finds diffi-
culty in paying for his coat, cannot, of course, pay for his
minister. (Hear.) It is thus that this honourable and
learned gentleman, whose professions of being the poor man's
friend, are shout as true as any thing else he says, (cheers
and laughter,) would doom the tens of thousands of the la-
bouring classes of the community to perpetual ignorance, upon
the highest and best of subjects. Such is, and must ever be,
the operation of what is called the voluntary system. It
will not do to mystify. the subject, and entrap the unwary,
by identifying the system in operation among his own seven
millions of the finest pisantry with the voluntary system.
No, sir ; they are under no voluntary system. If the
-poor Roman Catholics , of Ireland were left to what this
gentleman describes as his system, that every man should pay
his own minister as he pays his own tailor, the priests would
soon be starved to. death.. (Hear, hear.) But they are coin- '
pelted to pay their priests ! (Cheers.) Aye, thousands upon ,
thousands of the wretched sans cidottes, who, never paid a
tailor, are coerced on pain of eternal damnation, to share
their miserable pittance with the priest. " No penny, no pa-
ternoster"—" no money, no mass"—these are the watch-
words of popish statistics, by which the poor Roman Catholics
of Ireland are bound down. In proportion as the superstition
• is strong which identifies the mass with salvation, the rob-
bery is flagrant that identifies the money with the mass.
(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Thus we have a view of the whole
circumference of the mill in which the wretched Roman Ca-
tholics of Ireland are made to grind. Superstition urges
them on with a deadly grasp to pay- the priest's demands
these Payment keep them in helpless poverty ; their poverty
com-
pletes the cirele
keeps them ins perpetual ignorance ; and their ignorance com-
Protestant poor
antling them over again the victims of re-
newed superstition.cannot
they toil on in a circle. The
(Hear.) They"t'e
last farthing by anywillmade to go in rags by supersti-
tion.
superstitious no b calledfea r ;and
dohn
having
igigiv eh
hardly
refined cruelty to call upon°
earned the wages needful support their families, it is
spiritual instruction.
of body to toil for the suppl • ofl" need all their powers
(Hear.) them to pay also for their
the animal wants to which
they are born heirs, and it shliroiustlid.abne the high privilege of a
necessities,govFrnment, and of a
christian kingdom, of a c
christian legislature to meet theirrelieve their
cannot by
wants and to pay for their instruction; ttloi
They do
cannot do
makeany possibility
laudable
effortspay ftoor,
p,
a.),
their themselves.
tailor
.( (Cheers.) etetrhs.ee.Y)y
so, and pay ministers of religion also. '(Hear.) Dissenters
s, apel
acting on the voluntary principle, have built chapels, and
most praiseworthy have their efforts been in so doing, Left
to the voluntary principle the members of the Church of
England build churches. But I would ask, how are the
ministers of those churches and chapels to he supported ?
congregations, whether in the shapeof
By their
or gifts, or both. Well, but the poor man can neither pre-
sent rents, and consequently, gifts nor pay pew
do ? He derives hut little advantage from the new build-
ings and the new ministers. I have not forgotten the free
seats, but I know how few they are generally, compared with
the taxed or hired seats. The circumstances of the building
require that a revenue should be raised from the sittings.
The claims of the p
often, oor are secondary, to the debt incurred by
g. And
the buildin especially amongst the dissenters,
the claims of the minister himself are secondary to the liqui-
dation of the debt, so thrt it is not uncommon to see s hand-
some expensive chapel, with and half paid minister.
h a poor
Mr. Maitland, xhand, from
the Evangelicatv4ise book I hold in myquoting.
Rev. Mr. James, a
dissenting minister, and from the
that there
have been those among the
It does indeed appear
that their ministers ought the dissenters maintained
who have
.opposition
to all which has been uagdht to be kept poor." In " opposition
gelical Magazine, ‘, in the says a writer in the Evan-
tion, some think it sufficiere way of reasoning and exhorts-
- nisters poor.' "—(1803, 1v 1.) to Say-4 It is good to keep mi-
admitted by all , who love )ou " "It will be most cheerfully
faithful ministers ought to ber Lord Jesus Christ, that his
comfortably
will any but an iron-hearted toret
er supported; nor
a Christian, plead for the propriety Wretch, unworthy of the name of
miserable, that they may preach the bePing thempoorand
" They treat him,' says the Rev. Nirett?"."—(lBol. 75.)
would treat wild beasts, which are tamedj 'Linn"' " as they
by hunger, and keep him humble by keeping Irinission
It is curious to hear how some persons will intrgeat T P°°r*
bless their minister in his basket and his store, while, to
poor man, they have taken care that his basket sho'ularllas 1
empty, and his store nothingness itself!" (Hear, hear,)
Now, sir, should you or any one else be disposed to ask why
we meddle with the dissenters at all, why we do not go on ii,
our own course, leaving them at liberty to manage their af-
fairs as well as' they can, and managing our own ourselves, I
protest 1 should not have interfered with them, if they were
content with managing their own affairs. (Hear, hear.)
But what do you think ? They are attempting to force
their voluntary system upon the country, and have
therefore challenged us to ascertain, and publish. what
that
syStem leads :to. We agree in the distinction be-
tween the voluntary system, and the voluntary prin-
ciple,a voluntary We have principle
ntary superadded to our

church system--the voluntary principle grafted upon an
established provision ; but we repudiate the voluntary sys-
tem so called. We go, therefore, among the dissenters to
ascertain what it is ; we take up their own books to see what
it is. lam aware those books were not written for us, but
to stir up the liberality of their own people. However they
cannot write books for their own people without our seeing
theisn. Accordingly we find we have reason to complain, not
only of the secular parts of the voluntary system, but that
the spiritual part is fallen-into a deplorable state of poverty.
I must trouble you with one or two extracts upon this sub-
ject. There are only two modes of 'remedying the acknow-
ledged defect which we lament—either by this voluntary sys-
tem, or by the method we propose ; and if we can show what
the voluntary principle is out of the mouths of its own advo-
cates—if we can show that it is untenable—then we have the
governmeot upon the other-side of the dilemma, and there
remains nothing but a bold, broad, large, and general mea-
sure of church extension for the whole kingdom. (Loud
cheers.) " I will confine myself," says Mr. Maitland, "at
present to four extracts from three of their own writers, of
different periods. The first of these is the Rev. Mr. Barker,
who, in a letter cited by Mr. Wilson in his history, says,—
' The disposition to charity continues among us Protestant
dissenters, but I cannot say much as to our faith. Some
charge our fathers with putting believing in the place of do-
ing : I wish we do not put giving in the place of believing.
The defection of our younger ministers I greatly lament ;
and if the people departed from the doctrine of the reforma-
tion as much as their ministers, I should begin to think whe-
ther ours were an interest worth serving.' And again, `The
dissenting interest is not like itself: I hardly know it. It
used to be famous'for faith, holiness, and love. I knew the
time when I had no doubt, into whatever place of worship I
went among dissenters, but that my heart would be warm-
ed and comforted, and my edification promoted. Now I
hear prayers and sermons which I neither relish nor un-
derstand. Evangelical truth and duty are quite old-fashion-
ed things. Many pulpits are not so much as. chaste.
One's ears are sodunned with reason, the great law of reason,
and the eternal law of reason, that it is enough to put one out
of conceit with the chief excellency of our nature, because it
is idolised, and even deified. ' How prone are men to run
into extremes! What a pity it is, that when people emerge
out of an ancient mistake, they seldom know where to stop.
Oh, for the purity of our fountains, the wisdom and diligence
of our tutors, the humility, purity, and teachableness of our
youth" (ii. 51.) Mr. Wilson, having spoken of the popu-
larity of this very Mr. Barker, says—" When we speak of
popular talent, however, as applied to the divines of the for-
mer age, we are not to be understood as including what is
usually comprehended in that term, at the present day.
It is a fact too glaring to need an apology for stating it, that
mankind are too apt frequently to be led astray by noise and
novelty ; and to sacrifice their judgment to their fancy. A
disgusting familiarity, better adapted to the parlour than
the pulpit, with a strong propensity to,drollery, appears to
suit the frivolity of the age, rather than a solid scriptural
strain of preaching, so roue vibe glory of our forefathers the
Puritans and Nonconformists. It is, doubtless, this de-
prayed taste, in conjunction with some other causes, that
has contributed to the decline of .the Dissenting Interests,
nor can we expect a revival till a more just and rational taste
shall prevail. (it. 41.) He elsewhere tells us that, during
the last twenty years the cause of Independency has gained
grind considerably. This has been owing, in a great mea-
sure, to the increase of sundar schools, village preaching,
and the labours of irregular preachers. Numerousconges-
gations have been raised in various parts of the .country,
without any particular views of church government, that have
subsided into Independent Churches: But, although the In-
dependent interest has received large accessions in numbers,
it has lost in quality.- This has arisen chiefly from two
causes : the introdpction of uneducated and illiterate men
to the ministry, and the prevalence•of a spurious liberality."
(iv. 557.) To add, however, only one more extract on this
point ; the Rev. Mr. James, of Birmingham, in a letter " On
the necessity of a revival of religion in the hearts of the minis-
ters as the first step towards a revival in the churches," pub- •
lished in the Evangelical Magazine—" If there be a revival in
religion in this country, where must it be expected to begin ?
who may he'-supposed to-be tirst•partakers of it ? The minis-
less of religion themselves - A-question, however,
will here very naturally present itself. Does our religion
need to be revived ? iam decidedly of opinion thgt it does,
whatever may be the cause of it, I am myself fully and painfully
convinced that the great bulk of the present race of ministers
are by no means distinguished for the more spiritual and
elevated exercises of religion. I think we fall very short in •
what may be called devotional habits—in spirituality of mind,
in communion with God, in self-converse and examination.
It is true we are active in what concerns the diffusion of re.:
ligion, and much time and labour are spent in public matters,
a circumstance which probably, in the estimation of some will
furnish at once a cause And an excuse for adeficienty in other
matters ; but as to our station in respect to personal religion,
strictly and properly, so called ;we are pigmies Compared with
the men of Other tline.tt'hi with some men • of our own time.
Let us only -read the:Mithoirs of-Philip-and Matthew Henry,
of Halyburton, of IXtddridge, el' Pearce, of Brainerd; of Henry
Martyn, of Fletelrer, and coMpare oerselves with their.; to see
how dwarfish is our piety." I admire the honesty and '
faith-
fulness of this exceedingly • but I think it very necessary
that a fair estimate derived from their own lips of the effects
of the voluntary sytsetn upon the ministers of their own
churches should be publicly and widely known. I think men
should be disabused of the notion which does seemao have
been put into their minds by some •of these writers, that ,
whenever they go into a dissenting chapel they are sure to
hear evangelical religion. It is far otherwise.--,(hear.)—Ac-
cording to their own showing, their favourite topics are the
law of reason—the eternal law of reason—and the fitneis of
things—not the simplicity of God's message in his dear on
Jesus Christ our Lord.—(hear.)Mr. James says further,
concerning the prayers that 'are common in dissenting cha-
pels :—" A minister's prayers do more perhaps to keep up
the spirituality of his people than his sermons ; that is when
they are of an intense and elevated character. I have known
ministers so endowed with the gift and grace of prayer, that
their public supplications and intercessions seemed as with a
sweet and holy violence, to bear their congregations away
with them to the-throne of God. But this is not often the
case. Dull formality, wearisome sameness, careless indiffer-
ence, too often and too generally characterise our public de-
votion. We act as if the prayer were nothing and the sermon
everything ; and come down too nearly to the' level of the
slovenly, ii reverent, and inefficient manner in which the li-
turgy of the Church of England is read by a large portion of
her clergy.. I ask no other woof that we as ministers need
a revival of our own personal religion than the character qf'
our public prayers."—(lB, 29, 7.)—Surely, sir, 1 may ven-
ture• to proceed, after adducing such' evidence as this,
to say a tew words upon the concluding statement
of the resolution.—That such destitution as is acknow-
ledged on every side,. combined with the facts which
have been .clearly deduced, that the poor are the 'ehief
sufferers, and that the voluntary systeM cannot sup-
ply the deficiency or maintain the spirituality of religion; I
surely, I say, after these facts, I am justified in calling loudly
on a christian governmen't and legislature for aid in this
matter. lam happy to be able to bring to my assistance in
this branch of the subject; a Very important coadjutorno
less a person than my lord John Russell. (Cheers and
laughter.) That statement I perceive has excited some sur-
prise in the meeting ; and it may be some one is expecting to
hear a quotation from some of those more sedate, more ad-
vised, and more statesmanlike speeches of the noble lord,
at an early period of his political career, than he has lately
been permitted by his political masters to indulge in. But
it will he highly gratifying, I have no doubt, to you sir and
to the meeting, to know that so far from this being the case,
I am about to quote from what Lord John Russell said in
the House of Commons within the last week. (Hear, hear.).
A motion was brought forward by Mr. Thonsai Duncombe,
to the effect that every person who made a certain declara-
tion of his conscientious dissent from the established church,
should be absolved thereby from the legal duty of paying
church rates. Lord John Russell' opposed it, and not merely
opposed it, but spoke in the following terms :---
"It might be Mr. Thorogood's conscientious opinion that
religion ought not to he supported by the state, but so long
as we acknowledged the law by which a state religion was
established, so long that law ought to be enforced."
That, sir, is a good principle as far as it goes ; and good may
come out of the privilege question, " if enforced," with
however ill a' grace it may' come from gentlemen who
had for so many years declaimed against enforcement.
(Hear.) But still, when their own privileges are attacked,
enforcement is the order 'of the day • and now, so long as
law is established, it must be enforced. (Hear, hear.) That,
however, is-not enough. Many might think the law ought
to be changed, but Lord John Russell says this
" But he went further than that : he thought that the
Established Church of England was founded on just, and
wise, and sound principles. He was not prepared, there-
fore, to agree with Mr. ThorogoOd in his theoretical opinions:
but even if he could agree with him in his abstract opinions,
still he thought that it would not become Parliament to de-
cide that those who disobeyed the law should not pay the
penalty of ihOir 'disobedience."
Resuming the subject of advocacy of the church, the noble
lord says—

" The principle on ►which alone they could maintain the
Established Church was, that it was for the common good,
and that was a principle which entitled them Mask for that
burden to be laid upon all." _

"TKow," my lord," I would say to him, you are pledged by
that speech to church extension—(cheers);—for if the only
principle upon which an established church can be main-
tained be, that it is good for all, the same principle binds
you to apply it to all. To say you will maim-kin and not ex-
tend is to contradict your own position, and to stultify your
own argument. (Cheers.) To maintain the established
church at a certain dimension, whilst you allow the popula-
tion of the country to swell to a certain over dimension, is
wilfully to degrade what you call the established church into
a sect. (Hear.) You allow it to be•surroUnded by an over-
whelming population to whom you will not extend it. Now,
if it be not for the general good, you cannot maintain it, but
if it he you are bound to extend it." (Hear.) - Lord John
Russell deals very freely with some of his friends who are
advocates of the voluntary system. He says—
" He owned that lie should be sorry to see those times
return when those who preached the gospel were obliged to
look to the voluntary support and contributions of their 1
,flocks.. He should be sorry if the. lines of Dr. Johnson with
respect to the drama should become appliatible to the minis-
ters of religion—
' The drama's laws the drama's patrons give,
For those who live to please must please to lire.'
He should regret if the circumstances of the church were
to render it necessary to turn those lines thus—
, ' The pulpit's laws the pulpit's patrOns give,
For those who live to please must please to live.'
He did not think that those who had to maintain the doc-
trines of the church from the pulpits of the establishment
of t h i country ought to be left to look to the voluntary
contributionsa n d4o
plausible
ust
ibh
le
eppe
preachers."
ep
al
ce
h.
erfi:,,their support, or that they
should be supported only because they were popular, elo-
quent,l
am prompted here with a word " preach," instead of
" live.”. " Live" is in the papers, but I confess that the
suggestionthep fm onmt
—mf 0 my friendd
ohuebhtienddi
yi se
oamgerse atto improvementf
ministers are to depend upon the
to make
of
persons disposed too naturally their baskets
empty, and their stores nothingness itself," they must en-
deavour to please such persons, if they are to derive bread
from their good opinion. Theirl positiontinot certatinly, at the
dis-
senting minister, that it supplies his motive,B sap
on
least, amounts to a great snare. every
account
of it lowers the standard of what would otherwise be his
leyv e
upont her et. ab reei
their
awnnY
convictions—whoanl ol ein
Lordo
teaching. I believe there are many among them whoth would
fa faithfully hbfeulli
actdo no
honestlys u ch
athingnd
would rather be dismissed from the chapel than do violence
to what they believe to be the truth of God. But I believee
that the system has that tendency—that it offers a very great
temptation to be unfaithful, and I go the length of
John Russell in my belief as to what would necessarily he the
result of ministers of the gospel being dependent for support
d that I have occupied quite '
upon the voluntary contributions of their people. (Hear,
enough of
more thanenough, '
the time of the meeting, and
necessary 'statement; in laying a
what I conceive to be, this
information .
I am warned
of statistical upon which I
follow will b •
friends who build more ably than
hear.)
neratr%o)t.
hope some of my
at these meetings, has usually
I hove. That department, has been given,
fallen upon me, after all the information
of having to give
ground-work
I have been placed to-night in the position
and I will e
the sufferers, if
re-
tire exhorting you to make conscience o this
You some of those comparatively dry de,
d with the enjoyment of the
horting you not to be satisfied
evening's meeting, but that, if you feel a case is made out, if
you perceive details; and
matter—ex-
would be placed in whichy sbheol
statear of spiritual destitution, if you rceive that the poor
that the population of the country is really in a
dutylies
go-
vernment, though
you understand theygovernment
you feel the difficulty any
cannot carry it on in face
attempt to perform it—though
of the object-
ing dissenters, unless they • should attempt
the
1.5 such an overvflalraing (inland

.for it from the people as to make it appear quite plain to be
the national will—if you feel this, I say, and are, there-
fore disposed to do your own part; out youraelves to a
little trouble in signing the petition, and so strengthen the
hands of our friends in parliament. (Hear.) Remember
there is no security left for the country but in the extension
of christian instruction. (Cheers.) ,Remember that political
power is now. lodged in a certain class. In former years it
was lodged in a class that represented the Established Church ;
it was mainly lodged, when the church was first establiShed, in •
the hands of the crown and clergy. It has since, been trans-
ferred from their hands, and the turning point of the political
power of the state-is- now placed in the hands of the middle
classes. (Hear; hear.) The middle classes are precisely
those with whoa the' dissenters have most prevailed. The
Established Church,- for various' causes,' has commended
itself to the higher classes. The clergy_ of the. Eatablialted
Church arc the 'only' perions who can effectually ad. good to
the real poor of the country.; but the large class between the
higher and the lower classes, the franchised classes who now
have the.Votea in the bormiglis, return memberstathe senate;
and thereby wield the authority of the state; these are pre-
cisely the classes among which the dissenters have been labour-
ins m ost, and in which the church has, comparatively, laboured
least ; there are multitudes of these who never willingly joined-
the diisenters, but have escaped us for want of church room—
for want of church accommodation. If we ask such persons
to go to church, they say, " there is no room,_ we cannot get
in, we cannot find a place to sit down." Now, these, as I
have already said, are the very parties in whom nolitical
power is lodged. If', then, you have put a sceptre in one
hand, put a Bible into the other. (Loud cheers.) Give them
the knowledge of the Word of God. (Renewed cheers.)
There is no hope or desire on our part to retrench, in
the legislature, the liberties of Englishmen ; only let Chris-
tianity go with it and you cannot have too much liber-
ty ; but liberty is dangerous without religion, and it will
recoil upon its possessors. If we put a sword into the bands
of a child or a maniac who know not how to use it, we may
expect they will :cut themselves or others. So it is with
liberty; let Christianity guide its hands and you may safely
entrust it with ten thousand swords. (Hear, hear.) ' It is
because Christianity has been neglected ; it is because new
tangled systems of general education have been, substituted ;
it is' because there is a fancy abroad that general knowledge will
contront tbsenational character, linarthat Christian principle
is a peculiarity of sects--these ate,the'refilieeretiAif the coun-
try's dahger. It ais easy tia-set -vshence the'v come. The:
experimentalists and, the republicans anions as see plainly
the habits inculcated'bj the Established Church are opposed
to their schemes—they see that the temper of the nation is
opposed to revolution.. It was generated within the pale-of
the church. The disposition of -the nation was always mo-
narchical—a limited free monarchy is the genius of England
still—and that genius has been fostered and inculcated in our
Estiblished Church. (Hear.) . The frame of the laws; the
habits, the associations of the country. the suherdination of,
the classes—all pointing out the fortii of gbvernment we have,
had so long, and all fostered under the 'Established Church;
is that temper which it is noteasy' to break down. It is easy,
very easy, to change the statute book of neountry ; but it is
quite another thing to change the engrafted temper of a people.
(Cries of "hear.") Now, there is that Church monarchical
temper at present in England which is a barrier, stronger
than any statute, against the new tuitions of republicanism.
The-new tangled republicans are aiming a blow at that bar-
rier. They know that if they were to attack it openly, England
would recoil and crush the hopes of these republicans for cen-
turies to .cenne. (Hear,• hear.) They dare not, therefore,
attack it publicly; Nay, some of them say, they have
a great respect for the Established Church. This sounds
well and gains them a hearing. Then they proceed with
the scheme of a new general knowledge school ; the appoint-
ment of a new committee of laymen, dependent upon the
minister of the day ; and a new system of inspection by
those laymen, which inspection would mould the whole
system of instruction. They want, in short, to get
a system of instruction applied to the mind of the
rising generation, which will eradicate the church mo-
narchical temper, 'and. which will raise a people that can
be assailed by republican sentiments. (Loud cries of " hear,
hear, hear.") They want to give the generation that will
succeed a general knowledge, one fit for the liberal system
of schools which should teach them not to recoil from
the repidilican schemes. They are aiming at this ; and
whilst they are doing so, their general .knowledge schools
societies are professing le: greatest respect for the esta-
blished church, but still—'she is only a part of the popu-
lation ; they have great respect for her, but then they
could wish she was placed in a situation where she mild
have DO connection with politics. Let her be separated froth
social life, let religion he made a thing by itself, and England
is ruined.---(loud cheera.)---But let the church of Christ be
• recognised as an ordinance of God, in every department of
life e the mother in her nursery the source of support and
sympathy, the father in his family the source of control and
of guidance, the enter on the throne and in the legislature the•
source of law—lawa with all its strong enactments; its high
aaoctionaaithd its awful-executions, the prerogative of mercy
R ith all its blessedinterpositions—let all these I say, be viewed
as ordinances of God; let Christ be seen in all, let God be
manifest in all, and England remains upon the rock on
which she
.has .stood for the last three centuries, since the
great imposture was dislodged from her—the rock of Pro-
testant, Scriptural, Christian truth, against which the gates
of hell can not prevail. (The reverend gentleman then retired
amidst cheeringfroneall parts of the room.)
ADAM HODGSON, Esq.,, seconded the resolution, and
briefly expressed, his concurrence with it.
T. B. Honsiatee; Esq., rose to move the second resolu-
tion, as follows :—"-That the theory of the Church of England
is a fold for every sheep, and a shepherd for every fold ; and-
' that she regards the souls of all as of equal value in the sight of
their Creator : but that this principle had been so lost sight of,
during a long period of national Prosperity, that wheh the
Ecclesiastical Commissioners appointed by his late Majesty
made their report in 1830, there were 108 parishes or dis-
tricts, containing en aggregate population amounting to
2,59,0,060, for Whom not more than 301,352 churelis sittings
bad'been provided; and 'granting 'that the chapeta DiSa'
-salters in thosedistricts furnished an equal, ninnber:of sit-
'tina, and that not more than half the entire population can
he 'considered callable of attending public worship, still the
conclusion is inevitable, that upwards of 1,300,000 of that
population, and those chiefly of the poorer classes, were
totally unprovided for: and, hearing in mind that, upwards
of six militants have been added to the population a England
and Wate.a `since commenceliNerit of the present century,
it is cleemliat sortie huhdreds cifuttwiniaads might he added
to that „aoallitisfohumberoide4erscsrrassimilarly.sitnated in
-other seiets.of theliceinaviphha" This reaotutibn, like the pre-
Ceding; presentecl a vieW.ol th'edeficiency of church accom-
modation in England'and Wales. The recent events which
had occurred In-some parts of the country, particularly in
Wales, atforded:,a fearful commentary:upon this deficiency,
and loudly appealed to the Christian public to leave no effort
untried, no means delayed, which eould by possibility arrest
the progress of that moral- disease which seemed to have
seized upon the labouring population in some parts of the
country—inciting theta to. disobedience to the laws of God.
and man; and hurrying thein onward in that path Way of re-
bellion, which must inevitably lead to their own ruin, and
prove seriously detrimental to the best-interests of society.
(Hear.) It had been observedeand theobservation was very
striking, that we must either provide pastoral superintendence
and church accommodation for the poor, or we must leave
them to the police officers for their pastors, to the gaol for
their church,' and-to 'the executioner for their minister of
consolation. (Hear, hear.) That,the latter alternative had
been all but realized, it was needless for him to state ; and he
trusted it was heedless, in a'-meeting like that, to challenge
contradiction to the fact, that this state of disorganization
had' arisen, in a great degree, front the want of that sound
religious education, which our national Church was so admi-
rably adapted to-eornmUnicate. (Hear.) That our Church
was so adapted; "We had Only to trace its ministrations from
the moment it received the new-born babe, at the hands of
its sponsors, requiring from them that it he taught, so soon
as it was able, to read all things which a Christian ought to--
know and believe to his .sonl's health, down to-the period-
when the body was consigned to .its list earthly 'home,
to feel convinced, that there was no :church ein -this
or any other country, more--adapted to the wants, the
wishes, the feelings, and the affections of the people.
(Cheers.) If it were asked how additional church accom-
modation was to be provided, he:would reply that he looked.
in vain to the voluntary etforts of churchmen and, dissenters.
Those efforts had failed, and assuredly would fail, to keep
pace with that growing population which was fast over.;
spreading the face of the country, anti which, it' not provided
for by our national church, would undoubtedly overwhelm
the country with the principles of infidelity, of popery, or of
socialism. (Hear.) Again he would ask, how this oblige-
, tion was to be accomplished ?'. (Hear.) Where should we
turn more legitimately than to the state—to-that state'which
boasted of its union with the church ? Surely it was not too
much to expect that the state, which could afford to vote
two millions 'of money for the construction of railways in
Ireland, should vote at least one million for the purpose of
church extension ? (" Hear," and applause.) Were we to
he told that that state, which was ordained of God, that
" the powers that be," though ordained of God, might grant
millichis of Money for any secular purpose, but nothing for
the promotion of his glory ? _ (Hears) The resolution he had
the honour to move spoke of the destitution of church ac-
commodation both in England and Wales. It was not suf-
ficient for the state to provide for the spiritual wants of the
population of the large and populous' towns. (Hear.) It
was its duty, and upon that principle this meeting would take
its stand, to provide church accommodation for all the popu-
lation of the British empire. (Hear, hear.) It was the duty
of the state not only to provide for the large and populous
towns, but to provide equally for every rural district in the
land—(hear)—in order that generations yet to come might,
with grateful hearts and reverential love, point to their village
spires and say,
These temples of our God ! How beautiful they stand
The glories of our native plains, the bulwarks of our land !

(Loud cheers.) Much had been said of the destitution of
church accommodation in England ; and he would trespass
a few moments upon the attention of the meeting with a few
facts showing the destitution of church accommodation in
Wales, more particularly in that part where disturbances had
recently taken place. (Hear, hear.) The parishes in Wales
were not like the parishes in England; but extended over a
wild and mountainous country, rendering it impossible, in
many instances, for the most active and faithful. pastor, by
the most unwearied exertions, to visit more than a very few
families in the course of the day. (Hear.) In Merthyr Tyd-
vill, in the county of Glamorgan it was computed there were
at least 20,000 chartists scattered over a wild and mountainous.
district. There was but one 'church and one chapel of ease
for the accommodation of this vast population, and they were
capable of containing only 2600, thus leaving aliove .23;000
souls totally unprovided with church accommodation. (Hear,
hear.) Three adjoining parishes in Breconshire, called Llan-
gattock, Llanally, and Llanguenider, contained each a large
population living, in each case, at the distance of from five
to nine miles from the church., For instance, in the parish
of Llanally, was a place called Bryn Mawr, five miles from
the church, containing a population of 5000 souls, congre-
gated together in a close village, to whom a church and a cler-
gyman were equally unknown ! (Hear, hear.) And the
distance from the parish church was increased by the moun-
tainous nature of the country, intersected, as it was, by
tremendous ravines. (Hear.) Again, the parish of Llan-
bardarn, in the county of Cardigan, was 18 miles long, with
a popidation scattered over it of above 10,000 souls. In this
parish there were nine churches—two within a mile of each
other, and the third 'six -miles distant. These three churches
took in about eight miles of country on the one side of the
parish, thus leaving the population residing on ten miles,
without a single church or clergyman. .(Hear, hear.) Nu-
merous other cases might be cited, showing an equal or a
greater amount of church destitution, but he would content
himself by mentioning the-three parishes in the county of
Monmouth, where the chartists, who. attacked the town
of Newport, chieflY. reside (hear)—the parishes of Bed-
welty, Myniddyslwyn, Trevethyn, including the township of
Pont-y-Pool. These parishes contained in the year 1801, a
population of only 3635 ; but at the present moment the
population was estimated at upwards of 30,000—whilst the
church accommodation was certainly not sufficient for more
than between 3000 and 4000—a proportion of not more than
one in ten. (Hear, hear.) Sufficient had now been said to
show the lamentable destitution of church accommodation
in Wales ; and as Lord John Russell had already been
brought into court—(laughter)—he (Mr. begged to call
in his lordship again by reading a few remarks from a speech
he delivered in the House of Commons on the 2nd of Aug.
last, when proposing
lordship an increase in the army. (Hear.) His
used these words upon that occasion We have,
particularly in the manufacturing districts, very large masses
of people who have grown up in a state of society, which it
is both lamentable and appalling to contemplate: (Hear.)
They have not grown up amidst the usualconcomitants of an
ordinary state of society, under the hand of early instruction ;
with places of worship to attend ; with their opinions of pro-
perty moulded by seeing it devoted to social and charitable
objects ; and with a fair and gradual subordination of ranks.
But it is, in many cases, a society necessarily composed of
the virorkiug classes, with a few persons who employ -Wit 10.

bour, but with whom theyliave little other connexion • and,
unhappily, neither receiving in schools nor in places of wor-
ship, that religious and moral instruction, which is neces-
sary to knit together the inhabitants and clasies of a great
country." (Hear, hear.) There ! After such a profession
as that, surely we should have Lord John Russell with us
when an appliCation should be made for a grant of public
money for church extension. (Cheers.) And he (Mr.' Hors-
fall) hoped when the matter was under consideration, the
noble lord' rid all thoz.e•-eorinected with him would, at the
same ,tium, devise means for providing better stipends
for some of the clergy in several districts, particularly Wales.
(Hear, hear.) At - that moment he believed many of the
rhoshuseful and laborious ministers were not receiving more
than a common labourer's wages. (Hear, hear.) In con-.
firMation of this statement he would bring forward
the :case of an individual. •for hthe truth- of which he.
could himself vouch. The patty, who first mentioned it to
him:stated that the minister was an eloquent extemporaneouS
preacher, and added s" It you had him in Liverpool in his
younger days [he. was now 80] he would have drawn together
as large and overflowing congregations 'as even Mr. M'Neile."
(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. •Horsfall) would give them the
statement in the words of a gentleman who had himself in-
vestigated the case. The aged and faithful clergyinm of
Llandrindod, has been upwards of 59 years ministering in
that parish. For 28 years of his life he served the three
churches of Diserth, Cefn Llys, and Llandrindod, the
united income of which amounted to £34, and the duties of
which compelled him to walk 18 miles every Sunday. On
this limited income, aided by the labour of his own hands,
he has brhught up a family of nine children, and although the
perpetual curacy of Llandrindod has of late been augmented
by a grant from Queen Anne's Bounty, the stipend arising
from the two churches of Llandrindod and Cefn Llys, which
he now serves, and which are four miles distant, is less than
£4O a-year. Thus, at the age of upwards of four score, the
venerable pastor of these parishes is compelled to traverse the
• mountains, a distance of 18 miles, every Sunday, in addi-
tion to performing the duties of the church." He (Mr. H.)
trusted that, after such a statement as this, something would
he done, when the subject of church extension was. brought •
forward, towards increasing the stipends of the poorer clergy.
It was rather hard, when such cases as this were known,
when all the. Welsh bishoprics,. and many of the most valua-
ble livings in Wales, were filled by Englishmen, that corn-
Plaint should be made of some of our English pulpits • being
filled -by Welshmen but lie hoped- this:subject would be
investigated. The time was come, when, in England, Ire-
land, and Wales we must have faithful pastors ; and it was
of no use building additional chbrches, and endowing them,
unless we had faithful and zealous pastors, who would go into
the highways and byeways, and bid the people to conic in—
who would preach to them the pure, unadulterated word of
God—neither suppressing the truths of the Gospel from expe-
diency, nor adding, by design, the corruptions of the Church
..of Rome. (Loud cheers.) .With smith clergy throughout the
land, as had been well remarked by an eloquent Irish divine,
.there would never sit a monarch on the British throne, there
would never stand a statesman in the British senate, who
would be able to resist the torrent cf the moral influence
which the clergy would possess. (Loud applause.) We should
then have no socialism and no ' chartism ; we should then
have, to the-fullest extent, our earnest wish--7NO POPERY
in the land. [Four several rounds of applause followed the
expression of this sentiment.) He had been anxious, in con-
nection with this subject, to lay these few details before the
meeting ; and he would now conclude by expressing hiS earn-
est hope that this meeting would join 'cordially in that beau-
tiful-prayer hi our Liturgy, on behalf of the rulers of the land,
" That it may plehSe God to direct and prosper all their con-
sultations, to the advancement of His glory, the good of His
church, and the safety, honour, and welfare of our Sovereign
and her dominions." (Loud cheers.)
The Rev. It. P. BUDDICOM, in seconding the resolution, •
said lie would take the liberty of reading it again, because it
contained some substantial statements, which it was very
important should be known. Having read the resolu-
tion, the rev. gentleman proceeded to say, that there could
not he a more important, or, as he thought, a more self-evi-
dent truth than that of the principle with which the resolu-
tion set out, " that the theory of the Church of England is
a fold for every sheep, and a shepherd for every fold."
(Hear, hear.) Well and wisely had the Church of England
provided green pastures into which she leads those in her
communion to the still waters of her liturgy, and pf her de-
votional exercises, of which they must drink—even of the
waters of the well of life, which are able to make wise unto
salvation, and nourish them up to eternal life. (Applause.)
But the question was how shall the fold be prepared into which
these sheep may be brought ? How shall they be gathered from
the world in which they are placed, and be brought into
those pastures where they may enjoy the glorious liberty of the
Gospel of God, which the Church of England gives to those
of her. communion, and to every one who. asks ? The gate
seemed to have been closed against them—not because the
duty had ceased, •but because it had been held so long in
abeyance, that many had forgotten it was a duty. (Hear.)
In consequence of feeling th.at duty, we were now called
upon to reason and argue about those things which ought ever
to have been regarded as substantive and fundamental truths.
(Hear.) . It was very 'certain that-we were called upon to
hope even against hope ;• and when his friend Mr. Horsfall
stated his. expectation that Lord John Russell might be led
to support, , upon his own-principles; church extension, he
(Mr. Buddicom) felt his heart sink under a crowd of recol-
lections of the doings of that family with church property
three centuries ago. At that period, that family so far from
being one of the parties to church extension, were one of the
great Leviathans of church spoliation, as Burke once said ;
and he (Mr. Buddicorn) should be glad, again to use the
language of Burke; to see a descendant of that house
who did 'not partake of the cold, acidulous, and me-
tallic. tincture of the spring. (Hear, and cheers.) But
we had been told that prayer was effectual, and that it
would be heard and answered ; he would therefore call on
that large- assembly. whilst other means were being used,
sotto. forget that Moses might be upon the mount, and have
his hands held up in prayer whilst Joshua was fighting in the
valley below with Anialek: (Cheers.) Thus they might call
dtihsn the blessing of God upon their exertions. He hhd
been struck with a remark of his rev. ,brother-(Mr. M`Neile)
that nothing could be more cruel than to elevate the Church
of England to a certain point for doingtood and there leave.
herwithout making her means of instruction commensurate
• with the ever. increasing wants of the population. lihsuch
a case as this, the Church of England- became a' sect: She
became like a human being having., an ossification of" the
heart. There she stood, the ossified part remaiping rigidand
:immoveable while the Surrounding parts. Were *St's; and •
expansives tintil at length till-the -heart , and death
took place. - That might be the consequence of attempting to
foster the Church of England up to a certain point and there
leaiiras her—(hear). must not only 'carry it dth till We..
reached the point of the present demand, but we must be
prepared to go on, sires acquirit 'eundo- to overtake arid keep'
pace with the population, 'which he understood had-increased'
no less than six millions within the last forty years,-,-(hear),,
The voluntary principle had been tried in all ways and places;
it had been weighed in the balance all over the country, and
everywhere found wanting. And so it, must be. If it could
carry its end out permanently-L-what then ? Could we really
believe that the various communities now spread over the
country, would, even upon • the supposition of their teach-
ing with faithfulness and sincerity, be satisfied with the
union of . the Church • of England 'principle with the mos-
narchical institutions ? no, was sure the . sentiments of
Mr. ,Nl`Neile on this subject were calculated to make their
-way through all hearts ; fOr if we. would have the throne •
established, that throne,. must be. built upon the altar,
and. the monarch must lay his hands upon the horns of
the -altar, and thenee dispense religion, and comfort, and
justice, and safety, to. the community. Whatever therefore
might be the willingness, or, if they pleased, the ability of the
dissenters and the 'voluntaries to' carry out their systerns—
and they had always shevsn a disposition, although the ability
had been wanting; we should,be deficient in our duty to the
Church, and to the monarchical institutions of the land, and to
the peace.of the country, which, under those institutions, had,
been based and pgrpetuoted upon a solid foundation, if we did
not enable evdry'sohe to sit under his own national vine and his
thVii tigtree, and:eitableevery onto drink of the waters of his.
own cistern, no man making him afraid. (Hear.) We had heard
a great sleal about the advantages which the Church of England
possessed, and, to say the least,'they had been put in a very
invidious light, obtained from its union with the state. No
question that there were adVantages. ; There was the.advan-
tage of .the independence of the ministers of religion, (hear,)
which was an -.advantage of no common kind. He had had
an opportunity of speaking to a dissenting minister, who had
left them, and this gentleman told him, he could form- no idea
of the tyranny-under which their ministers were placed, of the
difficulties they had to contend with in preaching faithfully
the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and carrying its truths home to the
lives and consciences of each individuals,-of the difficulties
they were under in speaking to a class of a certain descrip-
tion, and saying as the Prophet said to David, " Thou art the
man." So much did he feel these difficulties that he was
obliged to leave them, and now this individual found himself
happy in sitting under the wing of the Church of England !
(Hear.) Thus she was the dispenser of comfort and of sal-
vation, through Christ, to the souls of men. (Hear.) The
Church of England derived great advantages, no question, from
her union with the state. By the assistance of that union had
been founded every institution of the church, and every in-
stitution of religion. All the forms and fran.e-work of reli-
gion, which were to bring it in its power before the public,
sprang from its connection with government. This the
Church of England, in common with every other Established
Church, obtained by its connexion with the state, as well as
the means of extending its own usefulness. (Hear.) But
we had heard comparatively very little of the advantages
which the state derived from its connection with the Church.
(Hear, hear.) To say the least, the advantages were equally
great; for, as had been well observed, such was the im-
mediate effect of the ministrations of the Church of England
in their power, their purity, and their spiritnality, that this
country stood unrivalled, and must stand unrivalled, among
the nations. The Church exercised a power pver the moral
and spiritual condition of the people. To say nothing of the
necessity and duty of the state to take care of the spiritual
necessities of the people—taking. it upon the low ground of
the Church being merely called upon, by its high functions,
to preserve order and morality, the Church of. England, es-
pecially as the poor man's Church, had been. this country's
greatest blessing, by its direct influence upon the commu-
nity. But there was its indirect influence upon the commu-
nity, in which the state was materially benetitted by its con-
nection with the Church ; and he-held that the state had de-
rived more behefit from its connection with theiChurch, than
the Church had front its connection with the state. (Hear.)
Now it was to, promote this end that the meeting was called
upon to assist in the proposed measure of church extension.
Instead of lilting our land with • prisons and penitentiaries,
instead of multiplying police officers.-and poor law commis-
sioners, it would be well to try other means to stop the march
of crime and misery, by the infusion of a newer and a higher
principle. (Hear.) Mr. Horsfall had read an extract from
a speech- of Lord John Russell. Since the time when that
speeCh was uttered, in which his lordship plainly demanded
an increase of the army, to meet the appalling wants of that
threatening Reriod, the Bishop of Exeter delivered a charge,
showing the want and the necessity of education among the
poor, in order to avoid those dangers. [Mr. Buddicom hav-
ing read a copious extract from the most reverend prelate's
charge, proceeded to enlarge upon it.] If ive looked back
. upon the last half century, and saw how the national debt
had increased from two or three hundred millions to between
eight 'and nine hundred Millions; and,. considered that out of
that, enormous sum just one .million and a half had been
granted for church extension, what could we say of it ? If he
might be permitted to use the comparison in that meeting,
he • would say it resembled Sir John Falstaff's tavern bill,
found in his pocket, in which were large sums for sack and
delicacies, and only one-halfpenny worth of bread. (Hear.)
Snit
,was with the country. Whence have sprung the evils
of socialism and Chartism ; whence springs the cause of the
want and squalid misery which prevail. except because the
poor had been kept ignorant of the first principles of the
. oracles of God—because they had not Churches, and because
Where there were no Churches there were no schools.' - If we
looked upon -the Churches recently built, we should find that
wherever a Church had, been built, there had also been built a
school. WhereVer a gOVernment Church had been erected
in this town--and it was propoSed to erect schools to all the
others—a Church school was built; and, consequently, if a
Church was not built, there was no school and no instruc-
tion. s What then Was thedeplorable situation of those indivi-
duals who were left without the knowledge of God in the
world ? We might know what it was to' follow the sinful soul
through all its walks of crime and sin and misery in this life ;
Bat-further there was a veil over it too dark for human eye to
tp,ernoettlrraotec.vn If we could follow it into eternity, and see the ter-
tiLle consequences of hhving no fold for the sheep or shepherd,
how should we be overwhelmed ? If wehad a proper sense
privileges and hopes, and . of our responsibility
and -obligation, which were co-relative terms, we should
never let our hands rest, or allow our feet to stay, till we had
remedied this state of things ; we should call upon those who
had pure hands to come forward and help us in a matter that
Vas 30 much oveded e as this. (Rear.) We • were told • it

was a grievance upon dissenters to be called upon to pay
for a religion in which they did not join, and to which they
were conscientiously opposed. Now nothing was more easy
than to oppose a conscientious objection to an unpalatable
measure. (Hear, hear.) If such objections as these were
allowed, one person might object, conscientiously no doubt,
to contributing towards maintaining a police force, becauSe be
did not think it necessary : and he might think it a grievance
to be called upon to pay to the new force; because he thought
the old fashioned constabulary' of our Saxon ancestors would
do very well to keep the peace ; and a third .might. say,
with as much reason, that he was conscientiously indisposed
.to the execution of the law—and yet, if one luau must be
called upon to support the measures.to which he objects, so
must all. The Quaker might say he was indisposed to pay
for going to war, and yet he did pay. He_ made this remark'
in order to show, that if the plea of conscience.was allowed
in one case it must he in all. Mr. Buddicom, after' a few
further remarks, concluded by seconding the resolution.
The CHAIRMAN then put the motion, and it was carried
amidst loud cheers.

The Rev. DANIEL WILSON said he had been requested to
move the next resolution. He felt that an apology was due
from him as a stranger,' to presume, after the powerful and
eloquent addresses which had been already delivered, to add
any thing of his own on that occasion. But he would rather
draw his apology from the overwhelming importance of the
subject which had brought the meeting together. He must
say, as the incumbent of one of the largest suburban parishes
of the metropolis, that a subject, more important—more mo-
mentous to the interests of this great empire—more impor-
tant to the temporal, the national, and the domestic inte-
rests of the people—more important, above all, to the eter-
nal interests of immortal, undying souls, could not possibly
have brought together a ministry and a people, than the
present. He congratulated the chairman, as the rector of
this vast parish, on occupying his present position as chair-
man of the meeting ; and he trusted the example which was
being set in the great and important town of Liverpool would
be followed throughout the length and breadth of the land,
in all parishes and districts wherever they could gather the
people together, in order to send up an united, a simultan-
eous, collective voice to the legislature, urging the importance
of extending the accommodations of the Chureh of Eng-
land. He thought there were features in the, present day
that rendered the present a peculiarly proper season for soli-
citing this measure. In the first place, as the meeting had
already heard, the population had increased to an almost in-
credible vast extent, and the church accommodation was
nearly the same as that which, had been originally provided
when the number of the people was comparatively insignifi-
cant : and as the church arrangements were then considered
adequate for only five millions of people, how could they be
considered equally adequate for the accomodation of four-
teen or fifteen millions? (Hear, hear.) 'What would 'be
the feelings of the legislature if the same principles were to
be pursued with regard to our military and our naval esta-
blishments ? (Hear, hear.) He found, from a document
which he happened to have had put into his hands, of a cen-
tury back, that our army consisted of 18,000 men, who were
maintained at an annual cost of £630,000. At the present
moment we had an army of 110,000 men, the cost of which was
£7,000,000 per annum. Let him return to the original army
of 18,000 men, and ask the legislature whether they would
be satisfied with that amount of military force, to provide for
the defence of the vast population of this island ? Again,
our naval force, about the same period, was maintained at
the annual cost of £350,000 ; but now it cost £7,000,000.
In like manner were we to provide the soldiers and the sail-
ors, who were to go abroad to tight our battles and. to defend
the barriers mix country—were we to enlarge and increase
their numbers, and to do nothing to increase the numbers of
the soldiers of the cross ? (Hear, hear.) Were we not to
enlarge the numbers of _those who were to carry forward the
banners of salvation, and hold up the standard of the
cross of Christ throughout the length and breadth of
the land? Then we should have what we should natu-
rally expect as the results of this—infidelity spreading
amongst us—Popery increasing—and a spirit of liberalism
and radicalism and insubordination prevailing far and wide.
—(hear, hear.)—And could we wonder at it? Could we be as-
tonished if, when knowledge was increasing, when the means
of inthrmation were enlarged, and the intellect was being cul-
tivated to a great and increasing extent, and when nothing
adequate was done for the moral, spiritual, and religious in-
terests of the people? He asked again could we be surprised at
this result ?—(hear,[hear.) Rather was it not a cause for won-
der that we had not in a more tremendous degree these fea-
tures imprinted upon the land. (Hear.) Tnen there was
another point which, at the present moment, seemed peculiarly
to prompt this effort. It was this, not only had the volun-
tary system been tried among the dissenters, but it had been
tried, to. a very considerable extent, within the pale of our
own church. He would just refer to what he was naturally
more conversant with than with other similar subjects—the
state of the metropolis. Within the last three or four years
their -diocesan had been making most extraordinary efibrts.
They had raised, during that period, a church building fund
amounting to £132,000. (Hear, hear) It was just pos-
sible, with the combined resources of the Bethnal fund,
and of other local funds, which were ready to meet the
Bishop's, that they should be enabled to raise, in the
course of the next four or five years, as much money as
would build forty-two churches or chapels throughout the
metropolis. But what said the report of the church com-
missioners? Forty churches, were they erected to-day, would
be too small to supply the necessity. The report of the com-
missioners, presented some time back, showed this—that
279 additional churches were required, at the present moment,
to meet the wants of the present population of the metro-
polis of Great Britain, not to speak of the rapid increase of
population perpetually taking place : and, as the Bishop of
London . had again and again pressed upon us, " if I build
my forty churches, and the population of my diocese ad-
vances, as it does now, the church accommodation, when my
forty churches have been built, will bear a less proportion to
the general population than the present number of churches
does." That was, that the increase of population would
more:than counterbalance all that could be done to meet the
demand. (Hear.) This was a point which would strike•
every one, and which had convinced him that mere voluntary
efibrts, however vigorously applied, would not meet the de-
mand. Then there was • another point. Wherever this
voluntary effort had been, carried on, within a comparatively
small circle, the result had been so striking, as to encou-
rage, in a remarkable degree; an additional effort. Perhaps he
Might' be charged witlaegotism, inxeferring to his own parish ;
bUt he :should do so with a view to make out his third point—
; that wherever church accommodation, from whatever source,
had been supplied' at all adequate to the increase of the po-
'pulation, the result had been; -to surpass expectation, Thir-
teen years Ago, when the present Bishop of Calcutta first went
to the parish of Islington; the poptilation amounted to about
'30,000. 2lt was ri9sytl2,ooo. There were then two churches
which provided accommodation for. about 28,000 ; but neither
of them were filled. The incumbent was superannuated, and
unable to act.
,He had only a single curate to perform the
duties of that large parish. Now, by the blessing of God upon
voluntary efforts, sustained partly by the report of the church
commission, partly by, its destitute state, and partly by ,the
.Bishop of London's metropolitan fund, they had been enabled
to raise seven additional churches. The number of conse-
crated churches in the parish was now nine, together with
three licensed chapels—thus furnishing church accommodation
for 13,400 persons, or nearly one-third of the gross population
of the parish. The effect had been simply ,this—that every
new church built had been gradually tilled, and the old
churches were more fully and entirely filled with attentive
audiences than ever. (Hear.) .For every-new chinch erect-
ed, they had had an additional lay pastor working among the
people, and consequently they had now sixteen working
clergymen scattered over a district where formerly one indi
vidual performed the whole duty. (Applause.) The effect
had been, that not only had the spiritual interests of the pee-
pulation been effectually promoted—not only had they, in
their nine or ten churches, every Sunday, large and attentive
congregations ; but they were, at the present moment, sup-
posing the population to increase, and, instead of 40,000, it
should be in a few years 60,000 or 70,000, in a far better po-
sition than ever for raising funds for the erection of addi-
tional places of worship. (Hear.) They could fall back
upon their multiplied congregations, and increase their united
efforts ; then schools, teachers, and district visitors immedi-
ately followed. Since the last new church had been erected,
there had been built, or there were now building, twelve ad-
ditional parochial schools, capable of providing religious in-
struction for 2,000 children. (Applause.) he would shew
how their funds had increased with this increasing accommo-
dation. When they began, the income of the Church Mis-
sionary Society from this parish was £3OO a year; but now
they very easily raised £lOOO. lie mentioned this fact to
shew, that if they could obtain additional churches, and
meet the increasing wants of the population, they were effect-
ing a more important object for the spiritual interests of this
great country, than by any other method that could possibly
be devised—and not only for our own country, but for our
colonies and our spheres of missionary labour. (Hear, and
applause.) The same thing was going on there as here. He
might mention the colony of Australasia where the Bishop
was erecting schools and churches, and was about to build a
cathedral. He might mention India, where, during the last
five years, the Bishop of Calcutta had sent him word, he had
contracted for the erection of twenty-two new schools, in
connection with the Church of England, in the single diocese
of Bengal. in connection with this, he might refer to another
interesting fact. The see of Calcutta bad been erected for
twenty years, yet, up to the present time, there never had
been a suitable building provided for a cathedral. The present
church used for that purpose was an unconsecrated building,
and in the hands of trustees, who might withdraw it at any
time they thought proper. The Bishop was now making an
effort throughout his diocese to raise funds for the erection of
a suitable cathedral, to which would be attached native canons
and prebends to instruct the natives, to read lectures to them,
and thus be the means of giving a local habitation to the Church
of England, in the most important dependency of the empire,
which no other single authority could do to an equal degree.
He mentioned this because he might possibly be speaking to
some who were interested in that country. The Bishop was
anxious to raise a subsidiary fund in our own land towards
this object. The Christian Knowledge Society had munifi-
cently contributed £5OOO, and he was happy to say that
Charles Groves, Esq., of the Exchange, Liverpool, had
offered to receive subscriptions, and had sent a dona-
tion of £lO. Mr. Wilson -then referred to the reso,
lution, and concluded by moving its adoption, " That
the duty of Rulers, in reference to the public worship
and acknowledgment of Almighty God, is clearly laid down
in his Holy Word—that momentous interests are at stake
—and that it is a fearful experiment for a professedly
Christian Legislature to try (whether in deference to secta-
rian opinions, or to the suggestions of a mistaken and short-
sighted economy) how large a portion of the. people can be
safely left without the pale of Christian Institutions ; and
that it is an act of the most grievous injustice to resolve
that Mat experiment shall be made at the cost of the poorer
classes, who can do little to help themselves, and on whom
penal measures, whenever necessary, are apt to fall with
peculiar weight and severity."
The Rev. FIELDING OULD supported the resolution in a
very long and able addresS, in which he replied to several
points advanced by the advocates of the voluntary system at
their great soiree held in the Music-hall in November last.
Alluding to the three watchwords proposed by Mr. M`Neile,
he said he would suggest a fourth; and then the series would
run thus : Scriptural Education, Church Extension, Sabbath
Observance, and repeal of the Emancipation Bill. (Hear,
hear.) He concluded by cordially seconding the resolution.
The CHAIRMAN put the next motion, which was carried.
The Rev. Dr. TATTERSHALL moved the adoption of the
next resolution :

" That a Petition to the House of Commons, embodying
the foregoing Resolutions, and calling upon the Legislature
to take the matter thereof into its most serious considera-
tion, be adopted ; and that the Right Hon. Lord Viscount
Sandon and Cresswell Cresswell, Esq., be requested to
present and support the same."
At this late hour he should not detain the meeting by any
remarks, but, content himself by reading the petition. The
Rev. Doct9r then read the petition, as follows:
" TO THE HONOURABLE THE COMMONS OF GREAT BRITAIN
AND IRELAND, IN PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED.
" The humble Petition of the undersigned Inhabitants of
Liverpool and its vicinity,
" SHEIVETH,—That your petitioners are anxious to draw
the attention of your honourable house to the spiritual des-
titution of vast masses of the population in England and
Wales ; and, especially, to the fact, that wherever such des-
titution exists, the poorer classes are the first and the chief
sufferers.

" That your petitioners have been taught to consider that
the theory of the Church of England is a fold for every
sheep, and a shepherd for every fold; and that she regards
the souls of all, as of equal value in the sight of their Crea-
tor : but they lament that this principle has been so lost sight
of, during a long period of national prosperity, that when the
Ecclesiastical Commissioners appointed by his late Majesty
made their report in 1836, there were 108 parishes or dis-
tricts, containing an aggregate population amounting to
2,590,000, for whom not more than 301,382 church-sittings
had been proiided; and, admitting that the chapels of Dis-