The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-01-10 00:00:00

The woollen factories in 1835 were ..
1838
The hands employed in woollen factories in 1835 1378
were .
71,000
In 1838 86,000
Shewing- an increase of 15,000 hands.
The number of flax mills in 1835 was
The number of hands employ in in flax mills in 392
1835 was
1838.
43,000

Shewing an increase of 10,000 hands.
Of silk factories there were in 1835 238
1838
Of hands employed in silk factories there were 268
in 1835
30,000
1838 •
Sheaving an increase of 4,000 hands. 34,000
The total increase in the number of hands, in all, was 68,000.
(Hear.) Was that any proof of injury done to our manufac-
tures by the operation of the corn laws or any other laws ?
(Hear.) It would be very easy for him to go on declaiming,
but he should answer his purpose better by referring to sta-
tistical details; for it was upon them that the anti-corn law
agitators grounded all their opposition to the core laws. It
had been stated that the export trade of the country had been
materially diminished and interfered with b the operation
of the corn laws ; but let him reduce that to the simple test
of an appeal to the custom-house returns, and if the fact
was that the corn laws did interfere injuriously with our
export trade, he would willingly acknowledge their inexpe-
diency. That, however, was not the case. In the iron
trade, for instance, the exports (in round numbers) in 1829
were 89,000 tons ; 1832, 120,000 ; 1835, 167,000 ; 1838,
217,000 ;—shewing an amazing increase in the exports of
iron. (Hear.) But, not to enter into particulars, he would
take the total amounts of our principal exports. In 1824
they were to the value of 20,000,000 • 1830, 20,600,000;
1831. 23,000,000; 1832, 26,000,000; 1833, 27,000,000; 1834,
28,000,000 ; 1835„26,000,000 ; 1836, 32,000,000 ; 1838,
36,000,000 ; 1839, 43000,000 ;—shewing, from the year 1824
to the year 1839, an increase from 20,000,000 to the enormous
amount of 43,000,000, under the operation of the corn laws
during the whole of that period. (Hear.) Was this a proof
of the injurious effects of the corn-laws upon our export
trade? He denied the assertion in lobo, and these returns
established his position. He could further, if time per-
mitted, prove that the cotton exports of the country had
received no injury whatever. (Hear.) He was further pre-
pared to maintain, that the anti-corn-law agitation was a
fallacy, when it stated that " commerce had made agricul-
ture, and that agriculture must not be permitted to unmake
commerce." Why, the absurdity of the assertion, that
commerce had made agriculture was so glaring that it was
beneath notice. (Uproar.) It was urged likewise, that the
corn-laws had injured the manufacturers per se, taken apart
from their operatives. Now, he maintained, that the manu-
facturing interest had, of all others, for the last twenty years,
under the operation of the corn..laws, been the most pros-
perous. The manufacturers boasted peeonly the other day that
Nhglie s Ttr fastitele inraioniiiiresfiaalltharkftfr
lated all this wealth? Had they not acquired it out of the
very trade which they alleged to be so depressed under the
operation of the corn laws as to be scarcely worth following ?
(Hear.) It was an undeniable fact, that immense fortunes
had been realised in the manufacturing districts in the last 20
years ; but, he allowed, there was distress among the labouring
classes : he allowed they were pining from want in Leeds,
Manchester, Sheffield, and elsewhere; and groaning under
a misery and oppression which had scarcely any parallel in
the whole history of the country. He would put a question
to the person who had called out " question" to him. It
was this—Had the manufacturers done justice to those from
the sweat of whose brows, and from the wasting of whose
sinews they had gained their wealth ? (Hear.) Oh, if there
was one thing more than another that would bring a curse
upon the country it was—[A Voice.—The corn-laws]—this
grinding oppression of the poor. (Cheers.) True there was
distress among the manufacturing classes ; and it was true
there was to be a splendid and gorgeous banquet among the
manufacturers of Manchester, for the purpose of still further
reducing in the scale of misery and oppression those unfortu-
nate beings from whom their ill-gotten wealth had been wrung.
(Cheers.) He would bring before the meeting a single fact,
which would illustrate the manner in which the manufactu-
rers treated their operatives. (Uproar, and cries of " ques-
tion.")

The MAYOR rose, and reminded Mr. Lloyd that it was not
absolutely necessary for him to use this sort of language ; but,
at the same time, he (the Mayor) felt bound to state that
Mr. Lloyd was speaking to the question when he was inter-
rupted.

•
MI. LLOYD would bring his observations to a close. If it
were the object of the anti-corn law agitators to procure a
supply of corn from foreign countries, and thereby throw out
of cultivation many hundreds of thousands of acres in this
country, then he should say, they would be depriving our
manufacturers of their very best customers. They would
be committing an act of suicide as regarded their own inte-
rests. The corn produced in this country alone, had been
estimated in the Anti-Corn Law Circular at 60 millions of
quarters. He believed that was much below the real
amount. At 50s. the quarter, this would produce upwards
of £150,000,000. Where did this money go to ? The Anti-
Corn Law Circular said that a very small proportion only
went into the pockets, of the landlords. He thanked the
Anti-Corn Law Circular for that statement ; for he be-
lieved that the proportion was very small, perhaps not
above one-eighth of the whole. Now, throw the land
out of cultivation, and what would become of the im-
mense amount of money now in circulation amongst the
agricultural interests. That money was not hoarded up or
put by. It was almost as soon as acquired diffused among
the great mass of the population, and clearly went to the
support of our own manufactures. It was a great complaint
on the part of the manufacturers that they could not find
markets for their manufactured produce. That might be,
at the present moment, a complaint based on something like
the fact, because, within the last three or four years, there
had been a great deal of over-production. (Great uproar.)
If they wanted markets for their produce, he would refer
them to markets which presented interminable capabilities
of extension, and which would, if properly cultivated, con-
sume three or four times the whole amount of manufactures
exported from England at this moment. Look at the East
Indies. That country alone might consume more than dou-
ble the whole manufactured exports of this country. Look
at South Australia, where a mighty empire was growing up,
which, at no distant period promised to afford a trade which
would rival that of the United States of America. Look at.
Canada, which alone would give a boundless impulse to our
manufactures. Look at the West Indies and British Guiana,
where there was a soil teeming with spontaneous pro-
ductions
of all sorts, and only wanting labourers to
cultivate it. The exports to thosefcolonies were far greater in
proportion than the exports to the whole continental powers.
The exports to New South Wales were nine or ten times as
great, in proportion to the numberof inhabitants, as to France
or any other continental power. (Great uproar.) Then,
if they wanted to render the operation of the corn laws bene-
ficial, and to find employment for the whole of the popula-
tion, let them raise this rallying cry--" Ships, colonies, and
commerce." What had made Liverpool what she is, but
ships, colonies, and commerce ? (Cheers.) He would con-
clude by moving the following amendment :—" That in the
opinion of this meeting it is the paramount duty of the go-
vernment of this country to encourage the prosperity, and to
promote the extension, of the colonial dependencies of Great
Britain, as the best means for increasing the trade, commerce,
and manufactures of Great Britain and Ireland, and providing
abundant and profitable employment for the great mass of
our operatives and mechan4s." (Cheers and hisses.)
Mr. JOHN FORMBY, in Seconding the amendment, said,
that a great numberof merely theoretical remarks were made
at meetings of that sort, and very few practical ones. He
should like some gentleman to explain to him what propor-
tion of the price of a bushel of corn consisted of rent. Very
few of them there knew how thr that was the case, or could cal-
culate it. But unless they could,they were not competent judges
of the case in all itsbearings. He was not fond of quoting from
Scripture at such meetings as that, but lie could no help re-
minding them that the head could not say to the feet " I have
no need of you." In like manner the commercial interest
could not say to the landed interest "we have no need of
you " unless they viewed the landed interest as an incubus
upon the body politic; for the real fact would come to that. If
the corn laws were abolished, the end of the thing would be
that the landlords would all be ruined. As he had had no
answer to the question which he proposed he would answer it
for them. In some districts the rent was a third and in
other districts it was a fourth of the-price of a bushel of corn.
Then what must a farmer deduct for losses and what for
savings ? That was the next point. Would they (the anti-
corn-law agitators) allow that labour would be reduced in
price ? They dared not ; because that would upset their case
at once. Some of them argued that it would be a good thing
for the poor—that the poor would have better wages and a
great deal more bread for their money. Others said, and
with a great deal more truth, " we want the price of labour
to be reduced—we want corn to be lower in price, that we may
get our work done cheaper." (Hear, hear.) He would not
trouble them with any further observations, because, as he
said before, the case of the anti-corn agitators was merely
theoretical, and nine-tenths of all their speeches were mere
trash. (Uproar.) He begged to second the amendment.
Colonel WILLIAsts, being a practical man, wished to reply
to the last speaker. He was a practical man as a farmer,
and he also stood before the meeting in the character of a
landowner. The gentleman who spoke last said the land-
owners and farmers would all be ruined if the corn-laws were
abolished. He (Col. Williams) did not fear being ruined by
the change. He wanted to say a word to the mover of the
amendment, who had stated, that by the abolition of these
laws a vast number of acres would be thrown out of cultiva-
tion. He would leave gentlemen conversant with commer-
cial matters to answer the fallacies of the mover of the amend-
ment on that subject ; but with regard to the acres being
thrown out of cultivation by the abolition of the corn-laws,
he looked upon that to be the greatest fallacy that ever dwelt
in the brain of a pseudo-politico-economist. (Laughter and
cheers.) He should like to know whether any field of his,
when he refused to sow wheat in it, would not grow some-
thing else. The greatest fallacy possible was that of com-
pelling a country to encourage the cultivation of wheat. If
7.ldid not grow wheat, could we not grow cattlej,,,Waict
was fond of a loaf, why lce ''s\touid not to have a round
of beef to it. (Great laughter.) The Colonel concluded by
expressing his intention to support the original motion.
Mr. JOHN MURRAY, in a long address, supported the ori-
ginal motion.

Mr. DYKE, in the gallery, also supported the resolution.
The MAYOR then put the amendment and the original mo-
tion, and declared the latter to be carried by a large majority.
Mr. WILLIAM RATHBONE moved the second resolution.
After a few brief introductory remarks, he observed that the
repeal of the Corn-laws was a most important question. It
was not one of those things upon which, when at some dis-
tant day we had found out our mistake, we could repent and
remedy the evil. (Hear.) The remedy
would be of no use
.
unless we came to a sound state of things. Manufactures
had been established in other countries; and when we found
out who had been the persons who had established them, it
would be too late to go back. He hoped, however, we
should not be a selfish population, and when our neighbour's
house was on fire take no pains to put it out because it was
feel
forh our
se
house
not our own. He hoped that meeting
and
would
manufacturers. They were our neighbours,
was now on fire. What would become of the manufacturing
interests of the country if the manufacturers were thrown
out of bread. There were two millions of manufacturers
within thirty miles of us. Where would our ships, our co-
lonies, and our commerce_ be, if our manufacturers
were not supported ? And let him ask the gentleman
who was so anxious for the landed interests, what had
raised the rents of land near large towns ? What was
the rent of land about this town and Manchester? It was
about £3 an acre; and it was the manufacturers which had
created that price. What had been the cause of the late
evils ? lle.was not one of those who had begun late in life
to sympathise with the poor. Their Tory friends—no, he
must not say Tory—but there was a class who had lately
become very sympathising with the poor. Did they trust
-them ? He asked the meeting again, whether they would
trust them. Let the labouring classes look to those friends
who, from first to last, had been anxious to elevate the
poor—to, put the poor in the situation to support them-
selves. (An ironical cry of '• the poor laws.") The
poor-law was not the question just then : but he would say
there was considerable fallacy existing among the poor on
this subject. He would boldly say he thought the pre-
sent a very great improvement upon the old la.v, and he
highly respected those who had brought it forward. He
was not going to pamper the poor, or to address their follies
or their passions. Where he thought a law was a good one,
at the risk of his popularity he would say so. Mr. Rathbone
went on to contend that the present corn-laws were an inter-
ference with the benevolence of Providence ; that if they
were abolished prosperity would be given to the labouring
classes,and the condition of the agriculturists and the laud-