The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-03-10 00:00:00

STATE OF TRADE.

LEEDS.—AII the staple branches are still in a state of de-
pression, without immediate prospect of amendment, as the
state of the money market and the recent failures have ren-
dered money scarce, while those possessing superfluous capi-
tal act with great caution. The only consolation we have is,
that matters are not worse than they have been for some
time past. A great number of persons of both sexes, are
still out of employment. But for the well-directed labours
of the Poor Relief Committee and Visitors, the sufferings
of our industrious population must have been more severe
than at any former period of the town's history.
BRADFORD MARKET.—The same inan:ty and gloom
which characterised last week's market, prevailed in this
market last Thursday. The buyers of stuff were few and
spiritless ; there is not the least chance at present of prices
advancing ; the amount of business done in every department
was very limited. Yarn continues stationary in price ; and
wool has not materially raised from last week ; fine wools,
such as down and H. B. hogs are scarce ; upon the whole,
the market was very flat.
HECKMONDWIKE.—The blanket trade continues in a de-
pressed state, both as regards the demand and prices ; a great
many looms are standing and many hands are out of work,
w!th but a poor prospect of amendment.
WAKEFIELD WOOL MARKET, MARCH 6.—There are
still no symptoms of immediate improvement in any branch
of the wool trade ; and notwithstanding the very slight stocks
in the hands of most dealers at market, they arc more than
sufficient to supply the demand, and consequently a still fur-
ther reduction in price is submitted to.—Leeds Intelligencer.
LEICESTER TRADE.-The demand for goods for the home
trade is lessening, and there is, we am sorry to say, but a
gloomy prospect as to any demand for export. In wool
there is still less doing : the farmers hold firmly, and ask
higher rates than the trade can give. The manufacturers
buy with great caution and only for present wants. Farmers
are asking from 33s to 35s ; staplers are buyers at from 31s
to 33s.—Leicester Chronicle.

ECCLESIASTICAL AND UNIVERSITY
INTELLIGENCE.

(From the Oxford Herald.)
LINCOLN COLLEGE.—Three open scholarships will be
filled up on Saturday, March 28th. Candidates are required
to present testimonials to the Rector on or before Tuesday,
March 24th.

On Thursday last the following degrees were conferred :
MASTER OF ARTS.
Rev. Henry Powell Foulkes, Balliol College.
BACHELORS OF ARTS.
Hon. Charles Somers-Cocks, Christ Church.
Granville Sykes Howard Vyse, Christ Church.
Charles Whitaker, Brasenose College.
A vacancy having taken place iu the Laudian Professor-
ship of Arabic by the resignation of Dr. Knatchbull, an
election of a proper person to fill the same will be holden in
the President's lodgings, St. John's College, on Monday,
the 16th of March, at eleven o'clock.

On Thursday last, William Duncan Bathurst, Esq., Scho.
lar of New College, *as admitted Actual Fellow of that So.

ciety.
On Wednesday se'nnight, the Rev. Edward Hill, M.A.,
Student of Christ Church, was admitted ad eundem of the
University of Cambridge.
The Rev. John Anthony Partridge, M. A., of Christ
Church, has been instituted to the Rectory of Baconsthorpe,
Norfolk • patron, John Thurston Mott, Esq.
The Rev. John Clarke Jenkins, M.A., of Lincoln Col-
lege, has been instituted to the Vicarage of Ashley St. Led-
ger's, Northamptonshire, vacant by the death of the Rev.
Dr. Benson, on the presentation of Mrs. Gaitskell and Mrs.
Senhou se.
The Rev. F. E. Paget, M.A., and late Student of Christ
Church, Rector of Elford, Staffordshire, and Chaplain to
the Lord Bishop of Oxford, has been appointed, by the Lord
Bishop of Lichfield, Rural Dean of the Deanery of Tam-
worth, Staffordshire.
(From the Cambridge Chronicle.)
At a congregation on Monday last, a grace passed the
Senate to present addresses of congratulation to Prince Albert
and the Duchess of Kent. •
At a congregation on Wednesday last, the following de-
grees were conferred :
-- •

MASTER OF ARTS.
Thomas Cockburn Dawes, Corpus Christi coil.
CIVIL LAW.
Henry BACHELORWhite,BACHELORS
r n TrinityH
y coil.T
E
OF
ARTS.
Charles
E
Reginaldvans, Trinity Coll.
Burnet, Trinity coll.
William
Frederick Russell Mills, Trinity coll.
John Mason Neale, Trinity coll.
Conway Lucas Rose, Trinity coll.
Julius Lucas Brenchiey, St. John's coll.
Corm Campbell, St. John's coll.
John Watson Hepworth, St. John's coil.
Thomas William Hulkes, St. John's coll.
George Henry Ray, St. John's coll.
Henry Charles Seller, St. John's coll.
Robert Charles Willy, St. John's coll.
Gardiner Guion Guyon, St. Peter's coll.
Alfred Lambert, Pembroke coll.
Henry Annesley Hotchkin, Clare hall.
Hugh Weightrnan, Trinity hall.
Joseph Lawson Sisson, Jesus coll.
Edmund Stanley Stanley, Jesus coil.
Charles William Selby Lowndes, Christ's coll.
Joseph Spence, Christ's coll.
Walter Allnutt, Catharine hall.
Benjamin John Armstrong, Caius coll.
John Birch Reynardson, Corpus Christi coll.
James Young, Corpus Christi coll.
Dr. Ne,vcome's Prize, at St. John's College, for the best
proficient in Moral Philosophy among the commencing Ba-
chelors of Arts, whose names have appeared on the Tripos,
was adjudged on Wednesday last to Dr.
hCalder. ThelNpsrauhlb:y--
jects of examinationof wm-eroeraPlsa,eayn'ds
NMeovrialel,sPDieofesnOcpeboyt,.
baj.teioctlions of Whewell and Sedgwick.
M. Arnold, 8.A., of St. John's College, in
awgeTalilhn'sestFßtoheuven.odc
this university, has been presented to the perpetual curacy of
Lowerm ar
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cakn
icna, s hEi rs e
Esq.,
Patron,n,ari,
nAo. thesoiyf Queen's
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o tr
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to
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has beer! t
stMastershipOn
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byt ohfe
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trboynetshse, rmesirgs:
Cooper, of Bengeworth.
wasO ninSstaittiuldedayt
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rectoryß ev .0
fJ John
in nG yg
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folk, on the presentation of Mrs. Phoebe Maria Girdlestone,
of Kelling aforesaid.
TshtaeffEoradsrlboifreß, Bradford b
hasy
tgbiveendetahtbe beneficeo f the Roef y B
Thomasm hi ll 1
in
Pigot, to the Rev. H. Dickenson M.A., of St. Peter's Co
lege, in this university, who hasp been curate of the parish
more than twenty years.
On the 27th ult. the Rev. Henry Strabam Dickinson, M.A.
of Trinity College, in this university, was instituted to the
vicarage of Chattisham, in Suffolk;
on the presentation of
the Provost, Fellows, and Scholars of Eton College.
The Rev. Wilfred Lawson Jarrett, 8.A., of St. John's
College, in this university, has been instituted by the Lord
Bishop of Bath and Wells, to the rectory of Camerton,
vacant by the death of the Rev. John Skinner.—Patron
John Jarrett. Esq. Camerton-court.

On the 14th ult.. the Rev. Sir George S. Robinson, Bar

M. A., of Trinity College, in this university, was
by the Lord Bishop of Peterborough, to.the rectory of Cran-
ford St. John, Northamptonshire, vacant by the resignation
of the Rev. Daniel Basely ; on the presentation of the
Bishop of Lincoln.

POST-OFFICE PAPER FOR STAMPED COVERS.---The con.
tract has been giien to Mr. John Dickinson, whose tender
Was lowest in price, and who undertook to supply the paper
earlier than any other manufacturer.—Ministerial paper.

STEAM COMMUNICATION TO AND PROM THE
WEST INDIES.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD•

• SIR,—As your respectable journal is widely circulated in
the West Indian colonies, and amongst the commercial:
classes in this country, you will oblige me, and also greatly
serve the cause of truth and the public interests, by inserting
the following remarks upon the manifesto issued by the
committee of the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow, on the
21st of January last, in reply to remarks ou their previous
remarkable memorial, addressed to the lords of the treasury,
against the whole combinations and arrangements as fixed
for the conveyance of the mails to, and from, and in several
places of the wester►► world. It is painful and unpleasant to
me to occupy my time from other duties on such subjects,
but the document alluded to is couched in such terms as to
render this step on my part indispensable.

I ain, &c.,
JAMES MACQUEEN.

London, 28th Feb. 1840

REMARKS.

The manifesto from the- committee of the Chamber:of
Commerce of Glasgow is chiefly of a personal character. I
shall not descend to the same course of proceeding, out take
the statements and the principles advanced, not the indivi-
duals who advance them, as the proper subjects for remark,
animadversion, and refutation. The fallacy, the disingenuity,
and the dishonesty of the whole will, it is hoped, be estab-
lished without going to school again, or having recourse to
the counsels and the assistance of any' schoolmaster for that
purpose.
The chief object held in view by the writers is not the vin-
dication of what had been previously stated by the chamber,
that being impossible, but to attempt to show that Mr.
Macqueen is wrong in certain distances, without reflecting
that even did they succeed in establishing this, they are only
strengthening his case and weakening their own. Further,
although the authors of the document alluded to "have
sailed in these seas," they distinctly inform us that they
could neither direct their course nor measure their distances
in this seas; hut that they were compelled to apply to their
tutor, who never " sailed in these seas," to do this for them,
adding significantly, "if these" (his) " calculations are
correct," &c., thus showing distinctly that they could not
tell whether he was right or wrong in his labours. Samana
to Portsmouth, say they, is only 3671 geo. miles, not 3800 as
Mr. Macqueen had stated. Be it so for the sake of argu
ment ; then it is plain that the Royal Mail Steam-packet
Company's steamers will both get out and home sooner than
has been calculated upon, saving nearly two days in the ge-
neral voyage : thus neutralising the effect of their attempted
shortened distance between Antigua and Liverpool. That
the tutor should not see this I can easily believe, but that
his employers should not perceive it appears to me to be very
extraordinary.
The Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow may have sailed in
West Indian seas, yet not have a perfect knowledge of them
and what is in them. Take in proof : they first pirate my
map, and then, to show that I am wrong, abstract or sink
Barbuda in the deep, and remove Montserat to its place—a
deed for which Sir Bethel Codrington has a good action of
damages against them, as the chamber is rich, it would be
but prudent in Sir Bethel to look after his property, and
make the abstractors to pay the value thof; the deer in-
cluded. Alter this specimen of geographical accuracy, no
one in search of a West Indian island will think of applying

to the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow for infoiiiition
about it.

The map just alluded to is, most strictly speaking, my
own. It was constructed for my work about two years ago,
and was, I feel certain, at the time the only one in England
wherein the coast of Central America, from the River St.
Juan to Yucatan, standing, in all previous maps, one degree
too much to the eastward, was corrected from Capt. Owen's
survey, shortly before published by the Admiralty ; and the
coast southwards, from St. Juan's to Chagre, with an error
equally great, laid down correctly from old Spanish charts in
my possession. These things cost me not only much trou-
ble and labour, but also expense ; and, on all correct mer-
cantile principles, no one has a right to take my property
without an equivalent and without my consent.
The chamber have given us their tutor's distances between
Antigua and Liverpool, and between Samana and Southamp-
ton ; but they have wisely withheld from us, by the same
authority, admitting it to be unquestionable, the distances
between Samana and Liverpool, and between Antigua and
Southampton. Yet the true point at issue depends upon
the difference that is betwixt these latter places and the for-
mer. But let us take things their own way, and see on
which side error lies, and the extent thereof.

Geo. Miles.
Antigua to Liverpool, distance "as the crow flies" .. 3480
Sacnana to English Harbour, Antigua, by St. John's.. 470

Total 3950
Samana to Portsmouth, by the " crow" line 3671

Increased distance
But this is not all. The accurate authorities referred to
have forgotten three most important things in their deduc-
tions and calculations. First—Mr. Macqueen never stated
that the Royal Mail Steam-packet Company contemplated
carrying the West India mails and passengers by " crows; "
consequently they cannot take the course " as the crow flies !"
Secondly—Neither did he ever state that the company had
procured steam-vessels to carry these mails, which could
travel over the land as easily as they could move through
the water ' • consequently they cannot take the straight line
prescribed by the tutor and the chamber. To do this, the
authorities alluded to would most assuredly run their noses
against St. David's Head. (harder than theirs) and the rocky
coast adjoining ; next, if they at this place escaped destrut-
tion, enter the land about Aberystwith, and run over North
Wales, the Dee, the Mersey, the Liverpool Custom-hotise,
coaches, cars, &c., to St. Paul's Church, where, unless the
tutor intends the steamers to anchor, be must add one mile
more to correct his distance to carry them to the Clarence.
Dock ! Thirdly—To the preceding increased distance, be-
tween Samana by Antigua to Liverpool, must be added at
least ninety miles more, on account of the circuitous course
which every vessel coming from the westward must take by
Cape Clear, Tuskar, Holyhead, &c.
Next, the chamber proceeds to show that it is fifty miles
less sailing from Samana to Southampton than Mr. Mac-
queen makes it. Let us see how they do this. The distance
stated in the Royal Mail Steam-packet Company's routes
are taken from anchorage to anchorage-3800 miles. The
authorities referred to admit, that from their points the
sailing distance is 3753 miles. To this they must add four-
teen to sixteen miles, according as the anchorage may be
chosen at a point in the Bay of Samana to the west of the
Cape, which they erroneously take for Cape Samana, and
where, indeed, only " crows' would think of casting anchor ;
and at least twenty to thirty miles more for the circuitous
navigation round the Isle of Wight, or through the Needles,
up to Southampton, which, by the bye, is twelve miles further
west than Portsmouth, the point to which the distance, 3800
miles, from Samana was taken in the Royal Mail Steam-
packet Company's chart. The distance stated, moreover
refers to Fayal being made a coal dep6t, in order thereby to
accelerate the voyages of the steamers, both outwards and
inwards. Cape Samana is not marked in that chart. The
tutor and his scholars have taken the name of the town (it is
a fortified town, not a village) for the Cape, and the most
eastern point on the north side of the entrance into the bay,
as the Cape itself ; which, if they had seen or looked into
the Admiralty charts constructed from Captain Owen's late
survey, they would have found that it is not. The town of
Samana stands in 69 20 W. long.—one degree to the west of
Point Eugana, and fourteen min. further west than the point
taken from Cape Samana.
It is sickening to wade through such miserable quibbles,
and to be pestered by assertions and statements thus made
without 'correct information. They may be worthy of the
cause, but are certainly unworthy of the names that subscribe
to them as being correct.
The inter-colonial distances taken in the Glasgow memo-
rial, say the committee, for their calculations, are the same
as those given in the Royal Mail Steam-packet Company's
chart. What ! stick by my other labours, after the tutor
had shown them that I had erred in the main lines ! But it
was their inter-colonial periods taken, not the distances, that
the allusion of error was made. The Glasgow memorial
gives the time from Antigua to Parimaribo, by Barbadoes,
Tobago, and Demerara, and that from Parimaribo back by
the same rate, to be the same, viz., six days. No man who
ever sailed in those seas will maintain, as they thus maintain,
that the voyage going up can be performed in the same time
as the voyage coming down. It is impossible, the currents
are so very strong ; and for half the year, moreover, the
course is in the teeth of the south-east trade wind, that it
cannot be done. _

No one at all acquainted with these seas can possibly main-
tain that the nearest road from any given point in England,
say Falmouth to Porto Cabello, is by Antigua, and the chain
of islands southward, round by Trinidad ; and further,
that the nearest and best road from Porto Cabello to Fal-
mouth, is back by the same route. Yet the Glasgow me-
morial sturdily recommends both. The distance outwards
by Antigua, &v. is 4374, and by Barbadoes, Grenada, &c.
4202 miles, being 172 miles less. The distance homeward
by Curassoa, and Samana is 4220, being 154 less, or 324
miles on the general voyage ; and in the inter-colonial parts
to Samana and from Barbadoes, certainly through a much
quicker and easier navigation than beating round by Trinidad.
The Royal Mail Steam-packet Company's arrangements
also give greater, even double facilities, to the places from
Porto Cabello to Trinidad inclusive, because they can for-
ward letters both ways, and reply to their European letters
also both ways and still be in time for the packet which
brought these from Europe ; but by the Glasgow memorial
the former could not be done, and the latter only be forwarded
by one way, and this too at greatly restricted time. How
the delusion has arisen that Trinidad and these places cannot
reply to their letters by the same packet which brought them,
I know not ; but it is a delusion of a very extraordinary kind,
while the reverse is plain to any one who will reflect for a
moment. By the Glasgow proposed arrangement, Trinidad
would just have six days, the time elapsed till the steamer
returns from Porto Cabello, to reply to and forward them by
the northern steamer coming from Santana to Grenada, which
place she reaches three days before the next outward packet
arrives ; secondly, she would also, and at pleasure, have fif-
teen days to reply to them by the next steamer from Grenada
with the outward mail, and to forward them by her to Sa-
mana, where she meets the SAME PACKET that brought them
from England, then on her way to Europe from Jamaica, and
the SAME PACKET too, be it observed, that their letters sent
their way by Grenada, &c. would only meet at Antigua.
Porto Cabello would, by the one way, have, instead of rive
days and by the other fifteen days, to reply to her letters, one
day, as the Glasgow committee approves and prescribes. It
is astonishing that these facts cannot be seen by every one
connected with Trinidad, Laguayra, &c., &c., together with
those obvious advantages of which they are persuaded and
seek to throw away.
As regards Honduras, Mr. Macqueen has stated, from the
outset, that the proposed communication could be made
v courseaii, n
ab on fi
laa pu
through the Havannah more easily and speedily for the mails
and the company, and may at any time at the pleasure of the
government be done, but without any gain in time as to the
post. One
Honduras,
Trinidaddor
as
dsa sailing
dlci ntugbbeay.e
otherssTehl couldo Gbetweeni Glasgow
gr uo
wnivlsooMontego
betweenteemgoe givesßH a ay -,
with England
the reply to letters by thh
to Jamaica,Honduras noro
any
yvaonttage whatever in. the course of post
fßoorwyaairdmedaibl ysttehaeurletur
mail of the month exactly eerfiprlaatcme,ailaomf excepted,tahicoaaio
ot h
can boenclayubs
be
.packeetstltyecanmosmetbr
eawnohoinchrsbe riisngpsreosuotritbheedsteocotnbde
outward
the generalward mails
a i
lline o
tsteamers
fonualiv,titndy
take Honduras
hei tG iusl
Gulf
impossibleof
from Jamaica to Havannarn t
Vera Cruz on N
iiil e theirxiMexico,
n , thatwanady
for
every North
mail
from America,
trcondly, without de-
taining detaining—first, the
on the east, and from Nassau on the northleest to Parimaribo
those
to Valparaiso on the south, six days longer to Panama, nay,
dies than they would otherwise be ;
whi in the West In-
bring them to England at the end of sixty-three days,
the outward packet would be gone, and all the eo
outward
when
cor-
respondence cut off for fifteen days beyond that which
be. Unless the government give two lines of steamerisittwhiall
is, three more than has been contracted for, involvino• an ex_
e of £160,000 additional capital, and7o,ooo
pens Xadditi 1
give to Honduras a steamer, 151,000
additional
yearly expense ; or
yearly additional r' 'l,OOO
expense, entirely
capital, and £25,000
the replies ~ to
herself (even with whichlatter,
the same packet which brought them;)
and be forwarded by
stated 'is submitted t
and unless the vast detention just o,
which, if it could be, it is scarcely . necessary to observe, would
be most prejudicial to
the public interests, and to the mail
Honduras wants, however much
company m particular, what
it may be desired, cannot be obtained. These are the real
is challenged.
facts of this case, and to which contradiction.
for the censure so There is no necessity nor any ground Let
those this matter. Let
un-
guardedly cast upon Mr. Macqueen
those connected with Honduras go to the government, and
try if they will give the additional steamer, or if the govern-

ment will agree to the general detention of all tq mails above

alluded to ;-which detention cannot be avoided if Honduras
is to receive one steamer of the number at present contracted

for, and so as to gain the course of post, add while to do so is
really to detain all the windward mails, as the Glasgow Cham,
ber complains and asserts is now the case, for that time
longer in the colonies.

Honduras is unquestionably a place of very great import-
ance. It imports from Central America 600,000 dollars yearly,
and some indigo ; a portion of the dollars—about 54,000 (see
Porter's Tables and Commt. Accounts)—are sold to govern-
ment, and the remainder exported, it is supposed, to Cuba,
where a high premium is obtained for the African trade.
Now, the Royal Mail Stearn-packet Company would be as
happy to be the carriers of these as Honduras would be ready

to give them ; and as their spare steamer for the WeSt In.-
dies will be stationed either at the Havana or Jamaica, so
they could readily, and would cheerfully, when the dollars,
&c. are collected, run her over occasionally after the arrival
of packets, and send the ,whole on their'.travels in the qutick-
est maner possible, either to Havana, to England, or to New
York. The " arithmetic " of the question—that is, the
price of coals required against the freight to be obtained,
and the insurance on account of the very dangerous naviga-
tion—would be the only points to be considered.
The whole of the Glasgow memorial proceeded upon the
basis, that the arrangements for the Royal Mail Steam-pac-
ket Company were not framed for the advantage of the gene-
ral interests of the public. The general statistics, " arith-
metic," by which all good merchants calculate and are
guided, of the places comprehended within its wide combina-
tions, were adduced to prove the reverse. The Chamber of
Commerce of Glasgow can neither deny the accuracy nor re-
fute the points which these establish. They cannot do this ;
but, in order to weaken their force, they insinuate that Mr.

Macqueen produces them in order to make them " subser-
vient to his views "—meaning, of course, " views " hostile
to the public good. Mr. Macqueen retrains from repelling
this ungenerous insinuation in the terms which it deservea ;
but rather reserves the charge that he may, as he fairly may,
judge his accusers by their own judgment ; simply observing,
in refutation, the undeniable fact, that the plan selected for
the operations of the Royal Mail Steam-packet Company is
in all its parts, that which was at the out-setrecommended to
the government as the most proper plan which the govern-
ment itself could adopt.
" Arithmetic." It is singular that a committee of mer-
chants should express so much horror at having their lucu-
brations taken to pieces by " arithmetic." Why was not
their memorial based upon it? With hasty arithmetic they
came forward and attempted to shew that, as regarded the
public service and interests, and the interests of the company,
the plan prescribed was wholly wrong, and that, by adopting
theirs a great saving would accrue. Arithmetic was honestly
and correctly applied to these statements, when it was found
and shown that in every point the results would be exactly
the reverse ; facts which they cannot dispute, and do not at-
tempt to refute or deny.
The statistics of the West Indian postages were adduced to
show that these colonies, such as Barbadoes, Demerara, and
Trinidad, which paid most postage (the year being taken in
which the chamber could not charge the letters sent by ships,
as proceeding from the late change in the mail routes) from
their having, as a matter of course, most traffic, had, in con-
sequence, an invincible claim to have their mails as early as
these could possibly be forwarded to them, and not as the
Glasgow memorial would have placed them, at the bottom of
the scale; and further, that Jamaica, which paid inure
postage than all the other British colonies put together,
should not be neglected, and left in a worse situation than any
one of the others ; but which would most assuredly have
been the case could the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow
carry their point.
The separation or the detention of the Jamaica mails, or
both, has in fact all along been the point at which the Glas-
gow committee have been driving, although at the outset it
was attempted to be concealed. It is now, however, openly
avowed. The letters," says the memorial, from " every
country district" of that colony (Jamaica) " seldom being of
an urgent nature ; accordingly they propose, as " a reasona-
ble adjustment," that the windward colonies " should have
their communication in forty-six or forty-seven days," al-
though by this regulation " the course of post with Jamaica
would be sixty-one days." If this proposition and avowal is
not " selfish"—a system required "subservient to their own
views"—why, then, mankind have hitherto been ignorant of
the correct meaning of these terms.
It is the business and the duty of the government of the
parent state to unite as closely as possible all the colonies to-
gether, and not to disunite them ; and it is the business and
the duty and the safety of the colonies to embrace, with the
greatest cordiality, every measure that tends to unite them
more closely to each other and to the parent state. More-
over, all this hubbub about the detention of the windward
island mails on account of those from Jamaica is absolute
nonsense. Excluding Parimaribo altogether, it was still im-
possible by sailing vessels, as under the late system, to col-
lect all the mails, from Demerara to Porto Cabello inclusive,
at St. Thomas, in less than twenty-one or twenty-two days,
which would bring the course of post between London and
these windward places to be, as at present, at least eighty-
four days. Take a separate packet and send her direct by
Cape Henri to Jamaica, and allowinc, her to remain in the
island eight days, and then come to England, even by the
Havannah, she would make out the voyage in probably even
less time. The same proportion would take place were the
mails conveyed by separate lines of steamers ; nay, the gene-
ral voyage to and from Jamaica would probably be performed
in a day less than could be done to and from the windward
colonies; thus, the windward colonies, 16 days out, 16 days
in the colonies, and 18 days (taking in St. Thomas) home—
together, 50 days. Jamaica, direct, 19 days out, 8 days in the
island, and 21 days home—together, 48 days. Let us hear
no more, therefore, about the detention of the windward
island mails for the sake of Jamaica, when the reverse, if
they were separated, would be the fact.
The time that the Royal Mail Steam Company's vessels
are in the West Indies,—that is, the time from the date of
their arrival at Barbadoes and the date of their departure
from Samana, will be 21 days, bringing up every mail from
Parimaribo to Havannah and Panama, inclusive, and giving
all Jamaica.time to answer her letters. The steamers by the
Glasgow project cannot be a shorter time in the West Indies.
The chamber'adrnit 19 days, but to which they must add one
day each way at Antigua to take in coals, change mails and
passengers, &c., while, even to get away at the end of this
time; they will deprive three-fourths of Jamaica of the op-
portunity of replying to their letters, and leave behind for fif-•
teen days all, the. Cuba and all the South American mails,
from both the 'Coasts of the Atlantic and the coasts of the
Pacific. If the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow cannot
see these things, an unprejudiced and reflecting public most
certainly Will. •
The Chamber of ComMeree, or 'rather their committee,
complain of the want of courtesy evinced to them on my part.
In what it is wanting, I know not. They chose, as a public
body, and on public grounds, to come forward in support of
certain schemes,with a variety of erroneous statements and
injurious projects, in opposition to a great undertaking, the
whole arrangements for which had ben concluded. The

whole of their statements and projects have been cut to pieces,
overthrown, and refuted, without leaying them one point to
stand upon, and without the use of one uncourteous word, or
any language used, except such as was necessary to convey
the truth, and to refute the errors so publicly and pointedly
advanced. The want of courtesy is, in fact, all the other
way. One of the most magnificent and comprehensive un-
dertakings for the benefit of the commerce and colonies of
any country, or of the commerce of the world, that ever was
undertaken by any set of men in any country, or bestowed
on British colonies and British commerce by any government
(a plan welcomed by all the colonies with delight, and hailed
as a boon of incalculable value to them all,) had, after two
years' rigid inquiry and attention to the subject, been brought
to a conclusion ; when, up starts the Chamber of Commerce
of Glasgow, and without the slightest communication made
with any quarter, and without seeking any explanations,
which they could not fail to know would have been most
readily given, forward they come, as if they were superiors
and sole paymasters, and proclaim to the world the combina-
tion in all its parts is wrong, and you must, according as we
prescribe and dictate, alter and remodel the whole. This is
done also, without, as it appears, the slightest consideration
for the vast private interests embarked in the undertaking ;
or how far,;or how greatly, these, together with the public in-
terests, might, especially the former, suffer from what they
ask and prescribe. The Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow
do not lend the undertaking the slightest assistance. If tey
did, they would act a different part.
Want of courtesy ! Why, the scheme was sent to Glas-
gow as soon as it was matured; my remarks on their me-
morial were instantly forwarded to the chamber, a courtes
which, neither in their memorial nor in their remarkable
answer to these remarks, they have condescended to show
unto me. Common civility might have dictated the pro-
priety of seeking my consent before they took, as in the case
of the map, my property ; but this did not suit their pur-
pose. No one knows better than their chairman the labour
and trouble which I have had in this matter. It is more than
two years since I unreservedly laid before him in London
the plan while engaged with the government in examining it,
and at the same time informed him how anxious the govern-
ment were to improve the West Indian mail communications,
by extending steam navigation to these, and that they viewed
the plan laid before them in the most favourable light. And
here I might be tempted to ask, was it in consequence of this
information, and similar information conveyed at subsequent
dans, that the plan for the mail communication with the
West Indies was attempted to be got up in Liverpool and
Glasgow, in which the leader in the Chamber of Commerce
of Glasgow was engaged ? He therefore well knew where to
obtain information and explanations on every point, had
these been wanted; but instead of this, since he has been in
London, he has studiously avoided every communication re-
garding the subject. Will the Chamber of Commerce of
Glasgow say such conduct on their part is proper, or a proof
of the goodness of their cause ?
The Glasgow second manifesto returns to the subjot of
" inequalities" as regards the delivery of and stay far-mails.
It is utterly impossible in any arrangement to give every
colony and 'place the same time to reply to letters, European
or inter-colonial ; but in all the vast and comprehensive com-
bination, every place, from Parimaribo to Havannah from
east to west, and from Nassau to Panama from north to
south, have abundance of time (the Glasgow memorial com-
plains that in some they have too much) to reply to their let-
ters by the same conveyance by which they receive them. It
is not so in the Glasgow scheme ; therein every place has
greater and more numerous inequalities, and all tending to
limit and reduce time for correspondence, not to aid or ex-
tend it ; While they take from Barbadoes, the head-quarters
for the navy, the army, and the civil government of most
islands, and the Post-office head-quarters, the advantage of
replying to letters in forty-two days' course of post, and give
that to Antigua, Nevis, St. Kitts, &c., where the same fa-
cility on account of the public service is not urgently required.
The Glasgow committee, or those who stand forward as
the committee,. say, in reference to the communications be-
tween Curassoa and Santa Martha and Carthagena, "that
none is required." This from the pens of merchants might
be supposed to be impossible, had it not been signed, printed,
and published in the Glasgow memorial. The steamer re-
turning from Chagre to Jamaica carries, by their plan, the
outward mail for Carthagena and Santa Martha. She does
not stop for answers. Consequently the replies to these
letters, whether for Europe, North America, or the colonies,
can only be forwarded fifteen days afterwards by the next
steamer from the same quarter ; which steamer, be it ob-
served, reaches Jamaica after a second steamer had departed
for Europe and America, consequently the letters from Car-
thagena, &c. for these places mentioned remain till the arrival
of another packet before they can be forwarded from Jamaica,
thus creating a delay of a month. Is it possible that any
mercantile men can say that such a system is right, or that
conveyance is not wanted to places where from one (Cartha-
gena) only £450,000 in specie yearly is exported chiefly to
Jamaica and England, and by which all the official corre-
spondence between the great and rising state of Venezuela
and Great Britain is and must be sent ? Yet so it is said !
By the plan adopted by the Royal Mail Steam-packet Com-
pany, the two places mentioned receive their outward
European correspondence by way of Curassoa, about six
days before the steamer comes up from Chagre, and thus
they are enabled regularly to reply to their letters, and the
government despatches to be carried forward without unne-
cessary delay.
Mr. Macqueen, says the committee, " recommended" a
change in the existing packet system in the colonies which
has proved more tedious than the former, and injurious to
the public interests—consequently for this is the inference
intended to be drawn, that as he has been wrong in the one
he must be wrong in the steam combination also. This is
bad reasoning. It is moreover not the fact. Mr. Macqueen
is, however, glad that this charge has been publicly made, as,
while
it displays the animus which directs the other proceed-
ings, it enables him to place the whole matter in its true
light, in order thereby to do away with numerous and sense-
less misrepresentations that have been widely circulated on
this subject, and, above all
that the Glasgow
to show from undeniable evidence
as in the other, most e Chamber of Commerce is in this instance,
gregiously wrong, and that it is not

general but partial interests that direct them in the very
strange course which they have chosen to pursue.
When in the West Indies a few years ago, I was strongly
solicited by many individuals to do all I could, on my return
to England, to get the packet system improved. In course
of my communications with the government about the gene-
ral mail communication now in progress, the defects of the
system then existing were laid before the government. These
were readily admitted, and the utmost anxiety evinced in the
proper quarters to remedy these to the utmost in their power,
consistent with' the means then at their disposal, and with
such as it was clearly known they could only procure for a
considerable time to come.

To understand the matter fully, it is necessary to advert
to the chief defects which existed, and which required alter-
ation, and which were as follow :
Demerara and Berbice never could reply to letters by the
same packet which brought them. The most important agri-
cultural districts of Trinidad were in the same situation.

With the exception of Kingston and Spanish Town, and their
immediate neighbourhood, the rest of the island of Jamaica
was in the same state; while even with her mail communi-
cation so restricted, almost every second Jamaica mail was
left behind at St. Thomas : the first packet of the month
alone waited there till the mail from Jamaica came up, how-
ever long it might be, and the second packet of the month
stopped first one day only, and subsequently the time was
extended to three days, yet the Jamaica and St. Domingo
mails were as Often left behind as before.

Under this state of things, the advice given was, that until
larger steamers, and steamers of equal powers, could be got,
it would be adviseable, first, to place the small steamers,
which were quite unfit to stem the current and seas interven-
ing between Jamaica and Barbadoes, on the Demerara and
Barbadoes station, by which means they would always enable
Demerara, &c., to reply to her letters by the same packet by
which she received then. ; secondly, that the packet herself,
instead of remaining ten days (Sunday included) at Barba-
does, should proceed on by Tobago to Trinidad, and there
stop five or six days (instead of two days, as the mail's
schooners did), by which means the whole of the colony could
reply to letters received by the same packet ; next, that the
packet should proceed to Grenada, there meet the Demerara
and Tobago return mails, and thence go direct to St. Kitts,
thereby avoiding as far as possible the hurricane islands and
calms amongst the islands. At St. Kitts the packet would
meet the other Windward Island return mails, and proceed
thence with the whole to Tortola, St. Thomas, Porto Rico,
and Cape Henri, where she would meet the steamer from
Jamaica, instead of waiting at St. Thomas perhaps six days,
till the steamer alluded to came up to that place.
The Jamaica, St. Thomas, &c., mails were, on the arrival
of the packet at Barbadoes, recommended, until a sufficient
number of larger steamers could be procured, to he instantly
forwarded direct to St. Thomas by the best sailing vessels,
which would generally make that passage as quick as the
small-class steamers could do. By this mode St. Thomas
would generally receive its outward mails in three or four
days, instead of eight days, and sometimes more as before.
At St. Thomas, the largest class steamers being ready to
take the Jamaica, &c., mails, they were recommended to
proceed to Porto Rico, Cape Henri, and St. Jago de Cuba,
three places which never had any packet communication
before to Jamaica; return from thence by the same route to
St. Thomas, meeting and delivering the Jamaica-European
mails to the homeward-bound packet at Cape Henri, which
place was recommended instead of Samana, lest inconveni-
ence might arise to passengers from the limited number
which the sailing packets could only convey. This was the
regulation recommended, and, after strict investigation,
adopted ; and this was the advice given, which, if ever asked
, under similar circumstances, would be so tendered again, as
I the only mode which could be adopted to benefit the general

interests without inflicting any material loss upon any place.
To disprove this, and to show the public that it is preju-
dicial to the interests of some colonies, or rather some mer-
cantile concerns in them, the Chamber of Commerce of
Glasgow ostentatiously adduce a comparative statement of
the voyages of the packets for a certain period under both
systems, making it appear that the Leeward Island mails
are ten days longer on their voyage, and those of Jamaica
one day longer, than formerly.
To ascertain the force, or rather fallacy of this production,
it is necessary to show what different places have gained,
without any loss to others, and how many important facts
the Glasgow committee have suppressed, in order to make
their case out. First, then, by this arrangement Jamaica
obtains eight days instead of four, Sundays included, which
enables every part of the island to reply to letters in course
of post, the government readily agreed to the additional ex-
pense of an express mail over all the island, when the packets
arrived at such periods as answers could not be returned by
the regular internal weekly post. Again, St. Jago de Cuba,
and Porto Rico, and the best parts of St. Domingo, have,
under the new arrangement, direct mail communication
which these places had not before; and further, Demerara
and all Trinidad reply to their letters by the same packet
which brought them, but which they could not do before,
and all this without curtailing any one of the other colonies
of the time they formerly had, or of sufficient time to reply
to their letters ; and all this, too, even according to the
Glasgow Chamber of Commerce, so far as Jamaica is con-
cerned, with the apparent loss of only one day on the general
voyage, thus showing, as clear as words can make it, the
superiority and judicious nature of the new arrangement
over the old.
It is said, " apparent loss of only one day," because, when
minutely considered, there is not only no loss, but on the
contrary, rather a gain :—Thus, from Cape Henri to a given
point in England, say Falmouth, is 3720 miles ; while from
the former place to Falmouth, by St. Thomas, is 3920, with
420 miles for the steamer to beat up against the strong trade
wind and current—at least three days work. By all the
rules and chances of navigation, and by the averages of voy-
ages from these quarters, the general voyage is done, and can
be done, sooner from Cape Henri than by St. Thomas, even
taking in the aid of steam betwixt the two latter places.
If the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce would turn to the
Jamaica journals, they would find numerous complaints, that
even with the time lengthened to eight days, many places in
Jamaica and distant parts of parishes in that island do not
know of the arrival of the packet until it is too late,to write,
and even until she is gone. This may readily be conceived
to be the case in a country where post-offices are not so nu-
merous as in this country, and where country communica-
tions with such post-offices as are there, are both distant and
difficult.

But this is not all. The Glasgow Chamber of Commerce
have lengthened the leeward voyages as arising from the
change of system, by omitting or suppressing the following
undeniable facts, which they might have known, and which,°
if they did not know, it was their bounden duty to know, be-
fore making the statements which they have done. No fewer
than four government steamers came to England last season
within a short period of each other, damaged, while about
the same time two were under repairs in the West Indies.
One steamer from the Demerara station was obliged to be
sent down from Barbadoes to Mexico with important public
despatches. Sir Lionel Smith detained on the same account
one of the steamers two days beyond her time at Jamaica.
Admiral Paget, in a dying state, took away one of the mail
steamers (elle Tartarus) from Jamaica to Bermuda. On the
arrival of the Spitfire at Barbadoes from England, instead of
sending her down to St. Thomas and Jamaica, where she was
so much wanted, the commander of the forces took her first
with him on a tour of inspection through the windward
islands. By all these occurrences (occurrences scarcely ever
likely to recur) closely following each other, and added to
the unprecedented tract of easterly winds which prevailed
from March to June in last year, the packets were deranged
and detained much beyond their regular time ; because they
are very properly directed not to leave the West Indies until
every mail is brought up ; yet even this important truth it
did not suit the Glasgow Chamber of Commerce to state.
How dishdnest and disingenuous is it on the part of the
Glasgow Chamber of Commerce to pass over all these facts.
Into what a blunder does their prejudices and their interests
lead them, by adducing as evidence against me that which in
reality floors themselves, and justifies in the strongest man-
ner the course which the Amu ally has pursued ! According
to their own showing, during the latter part of last year,
when the serious derangements above mentioned to the re-
gular course of the packets were removed, they arrived ge-
nerally, within their time. Besides, after accomplishing all
the good above mentioned, even according to the way the
Glasgow Chamber has made out the comparison, the loss
beyond the time when the packets became due was on the
year sixty-three days, the gain forty-nine days, making a loss
of fourteen days, while of the general loss forty days can be
traced to easterly winds alone, of twenty-six days in the
year.
The Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow—the gentlemen
who have sailed in these seas—who trade with these parts,
surely know, though their tutor and his mail-carrying crows
may not know, that the packets with the leeward island
mails, whether sailing packets or steamers, cannot leave St.
Thomas, or any where else, until the Jamaica and St. Do-
mingo mails come up, so long as there is only one line of
packets to keep up the communications with all the West
Indies ; and why, instead of publicly venting these bitter and
distempered complaints against an individual who had no
personal interests in the matter, do not they come to the
point at once, which they really have in view and say to the
government—You must either give us two lines of packets,
that is, eight more, if sailing vessels, and five, if steamers, or
else, as formerly, cut of three-fourths of Jamaica from the
course of post, and at the same time also leave her mails so
curtailed at St. Thomas, for two or three- weeks, cut off
British Guiana and the best part of Trinidad from their re-
gular course of post; because those from the leeward islands
and St. Thomas cannot and must not be detained, even for a
few days, on account of the former. This would bring the
question fairly to an issue. The public would then see and
understand the true state of things, the object kept in view,
and the real cause of complaint in certain quarters. The
answer would, no doubt, be speedy and decided, invincible
in principle, and conclusive and satisfactory to the public.
Their chairman, surely, can inform the chamber on these
points. He went to the Admiralty last summer to complain
about and to instruct on these matters. Surely he has told,
or can tell, them the reply he has received. If lam not
much mistaken, he found that the gentlemen there knew as
much of the subject as he did, and probably a great deal
more.
With steamers in the West Indies of the power when the
change alluded to tookplace, the periods in the colonies mak-
ing St. Thomas or Cape Henri the port of departure, would
be as under. First, St. Thomas :
Barbadoes to Jamaica allow
Stop in Jamaica
Jamaica to St. Thomas, most probably 8, but say 7 "

9 days
8 .

24 days
Making Cape Henri the port of departure, then
Barbadoes to Jamaica
Stop in Jamaica
Jamaica to Henri 3 ~

20 -days

Difference
and as the passage from Cape Henri to England cannot occupy
above one day more (if so much) than the passage from St.
Thomas, it is clear that upon the whole packet voyage there
is a gain in time, besides bringing forward every mail as by
the regular conveyance.
" The government steamers were inadequate to the voyage"
from Jamaica to St. Thomas, says the Glasgow committee.
Be it so ; but why not then candidly state the fact, that the
derangement and the delay of the packets took place from
this cause, and further, that government were exerting them-
selves to the utmost in order to get a better class—that
within these few months, three or four of a superior power
have gone out, when the work will be expedited? Thus,
take the comparison by the last and by the previous mail, the
Hecla carried the latter from St. Thomas to Jamaica in five
days, while the Tartarus took eight days to carry the former.
Here it is clear, that while such inequalities remain, packets
must be deranged and delayed, and the fact mentioned 13 an
invincible proof that all the steamers employed in such a
service must be strong and of equal powers.
The sneers of the committee of the Glasgow Chamber of
Commerce cannot alter the great features of nature, nor
change the physical construction of this globe; they cannot
change the course of the trade-winds and the current. Every
navigator knows, and will tell them, that the direct road
from one place to another is not always the nearest ; else why
do ships in general which are bound to ports within the Gulf
of Mexico, such as New Orleans and Mobile, run down be-
tween Antigua and Guadaloupe, making that great land-
mark, Montserrat, which the Glasgow Chamber have removed
from its place, and of which Lloyds had better take cogni-
zance in time ; and thence down within the islands, passing
between Jamaica and Cuba, and next round Cape Antonio ?
The committee have proved the propriety of a similar course
of navigation in other parts, when they state that a steamer
from St. Thomas to England, by Bermuda and Halifax,
would make the voyage as soon as she could perform it direct.
The committee of the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow
are wrong, greatly and decidedly wrong, in this matter.
"They are wrong in their principles, wrong in their statements,

wrong in their deductions, wrong in their calculations, wrong
in their arithmetic, wrong in their geography, and, really
being so, they :must not get angry, nor take offence when
coming unnecessarily and gratuitously forward to proclaim
the faults of others, they should be met by a disclosure of
their own. They ought, in fact, to sorrow even to death, for
what they have done. The most comprehensive and magni-
ficent scheme of mail communications ever devised or entered
into by any country ought to have been cheered by them,
hailed by them, and welcomed by them with more than
ordinary pleasure, instead of coming forward to tell the
government you are all wrong, such a communication is " not
required," and " the interests of British commerce do not
require any regular intercourse between Havannah, New
Orleans, and Mobile," &c. No ! confine the communica-
tion within a narrower sphere, such as appears best for our
immediate interests, and to a circle which tends to give us a
decided preference to other merchants and colonists. This
is their language and object, openly avowed in their second
manifesto ; and are these proper princiiiles to be advocated
and promulgated by the Chamber of Commerce of the second
city of the kingdom ? Whatever extends the mail commu-
nications between Great Britain and the rising states, espe-
cially the Atlantic states of South America, must tend not
only to extend British commerce, but to connect the interests
of these states more closely with the interests of this country,
and, by improving these fine countries, enable them sooner to
repay the vast debts which, for loans, they owe to this country.

LECTURES ON THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH.

(From the Morning Herald of Saturday.)
Yesterday the Rev. Hugh M`Neile, M.A., minister of St.
Jude's, Liverpool, delivered, at the Hanover-square Rooms,
the first of a series of lectures " on the Scriptural character
of the English national church establishment and the duty of
the Legislature so to extend it. as to maintain its national
dimensions, together with some of the circumstances which
impede its practical efficiency, and the best remedies for such
defects." The room was crowded, and among those present
we observed Lord Calthorpe, Lord Galloway, Lord Ashley,
Sir R. Inglis, Sir Thomas ochrane, Mr. Gladstone, M.P.,
Mr. Ainsworth, M.P., Mr. Pringle, M.P., &c. The lecture
having been prefaced with prayer,
The Rev. Lecturer presented himself to the crowded audi-
ence amid loud cheering. He said there was a very general
conviction that some means should be adopted, speedily and
on a national scale, for the instruction of the people of this
country. The ascertained ignorance of multitudes had long
been the subject of painful consideration to the thoughtful,
and certain late exhibitions of its fatal consequences had ar-
rested the attention of even the habitually careless men of
all political parties, who seemed to be agreed in the conclu-
sion that something must be done, however widely they
differed in their views as to the mode of proceeding. (Hear.)
The most obvious mode would be to make use of the ma-
chinery which was already distributed largely, though now
inadequately, over the face of the country, and to communi-
cate the required instruction through the instrumentality of
the Established Church. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.)
This would not only meet the exigency in the most obvious,
easy and economical and in every practical point of view,.the
safest and most efficient way ; but the church occupied much
higher ground. (Hear, hear.) She claimed the direct
authority of the word of God—(cheers), and cordially they
solicited an extension on the broad national scale of the for-
mularies of the church. This demand aroused, very naturally,
the opposition of men who did not approve of our church, and
not only so, but of men, who, though they themselves approved
of it, and also of its extension by those who preferred it yet
shrunk from any scheme that would enlarge its efficiency at the
cost, in the slightest degree, of those who conscientiously dis-
sented from it. They 'proposed a system ofeducation, to become
national, that should combine with secular instruction the
• Christians of all parties, and at the same time keep so entirely
aloof from everything sacred, as not to interfere with the re-
ligious views of any. This system naturally aroused the op-
position of those who considered that the material of the in-
tellectual constitution of man was so alienated from all that
was good as to be compared with a weed in a hot-house, and
that, consequently, religious instruction, whose object and
whose prerogative it was to change the nature of the plant
and make the tree good, should form the basis of all sound
education. It was the only element which could render the
possession of secular intelligence either a personal blessing to
the individual, or, if widely and nationally extended, com-
patible with the superintendence and safety of a community.
(Hear, hear.) But the controversy did not end here. Some
of our opponents not only objected to the extension of our
established church, but demanded its total extinction—(hear,
hear,) alleging that its existence was a hindrance to the spread
of true .religion ; and in support of this assertion they had
eagerly attacked the constitution of the church as opposed
to the Holy Scriptures. This left us to grapple with funda-
mental principles, a consequence in which we heartily de-
lighted, because it was our matured conviction that to inat-
tention and want of information on this vital point, might be
traced our present perilous position. (Cheers.) The num-
ber of intelligent men who, atter deliberate inquiry, were
hostile to our established church would be found to be com-
paratively insignificant—(hear, hear;) but what they lacked
in numbers they possessed in activity and decision. (Hear.)
They seemed to think, and they certainly said without hesi-
tation, that our system was wrong, that as a church she was
unscriptual, as an establishment unjust, and that she owed
her origin to priestcraft ; and they represented our church
establishment as a nuisance to be swept away by the rising
progress of knowledge, and the manly decision of intrepid
reformers. (Hear.) This imposing tone had produced its
effects where they' could be least expected. It had excited
doubts in men who little suspected it of themselves, but who
had been rendered lukewarm thereby—(hear, hear,) and now
it was not from the strength or activity of our avowed oppo-
nents that we had to apprehend real danger. (Hear,
hear) ; but when we harkened to the tone taken by many
of our professed friends and defenders, then it was that our
hearts trembled, when we perceived men known for their
discretion, and judgment, and moderation, maintain a for-
bearance both in word and deed which was misconstrued
into the betrayal of the great cause, if not of disaffection,
and defending our established church on the bare grounds
of her prescriptive title, her legal claims, her usefulness,
and her comparative- economy. These, however excellent
in themselves, and however sufficient in times past, were
not the grounds upon which the friends of the church
should now take their stand—however valuable as bulwarks,
they were of man's construction, and might be demolished
by man. There was a higher position to be taken—the scrip-
tural character of our church, and challenging enquiry into
her unshaken principles. (Cheers.) The apparent shrink-
ing from this position caused a feeling to be propogated that
the defenders of our church had of themselves sonic doubts

about her character, and were, in consequence, —l;uthalf-
hearted in their advocacy. He could not, therefore, but feel
strongly that we were called upon to do all in our power to
vindicate the scriptural character of our church, and distin-
guish between what she defines as indispensible to Christian-
ity and what she adopts in preference for her own private
management. If our adversaries pointed to the differences
which existed among us, our answer was ready. We were
freemen, each exercising his private judgment—(cheers,)—
and we were not prostrated on any Prochistean bed of slav-
ish uniformity. (Cheers.) And yet we had substantial uni-
ty. Whatever might be the differences in some respects, we
were as one Man in our attachment to and defence of our holy
house where our fathers had worshipped. (Cheers.) His
distinguished predecessor (Dr. Chalmers) had felt it right to
confine himself to a particular view of the subject, and we
had been taunted with not coming, and we had been challenged
to come to the law and to the testimony. He (the lecturer)
accepted the challenge. (Cheers.) The first and greatest
object of the church, considered in its instrumentality among
men, was connected with the revealed purpose, and progres-
sive purpose—on earth—of Almighty God In the Divine
purpose there was no, progress ; the end was present from the
beginning in absolute perfection. All that had been, all
that is, all that shall be, should be rather the response, the
faithful acts of the comprehensive design which occupied
the everlasting mind antecedent to the first exercise of
creative power—" Of Him, and through Him, and to Him
are all things ; He hath made all things for Himself."
It was not to be understood that the created world could in any
way add to the glory or happiness of the great Creator.
His absolute perfection rendered this impossible. With
Him everything is infinite, and infinity excluded gradations.
What then could creatures be or do for God ? They could
be so many channels in which should flow forth into mani-
festation the essential perfection of God. Some of them
could be intelligible witnesses of the divine character so ma-
nifested. The performance of the divine purpose differed in
this respe,:t essentially from the purpose itself. It descended
among creatures, and its uniformity—which became pro-
gressive, would, of course, be incomplete till the very last
step should be taken. The rev. gentleman then dwelt at
great length upon the Scriptural meanings of the church,
which, he said, were from the church mystical, the church
visible, the church local, and the church collective. He was
aware that, in thus describing the church, he was encoun-
tering opposition in some minds. He therefore had much
pleasure in quoting the language of the judicious Hooker as
a shield for himself against the imputation of novelty, and a
defence of his argument against facility of refutation. (Hear.)
" That church of Christ, said Hooker, " which we properly
term the body mystical, can be but one; neither can that
one be sensibly discerned by any man, inasmuch as the parts
thereof are some in heaven already with Christ, and the rest
that are on earth (albeit their natural persons be visible) we,
do discern under this property whereby they are truly and
infallibly of that body ; only our minds, by intellectual con-
ceit are able to apprehend that such a real body there is—a
body collective, because it containeth a huge multitude ; a
body mystical, because the mystery of their conjunction is
removed altogether from sense. Whatever we read in
Scripture concerning the endless love, and the saving mercy,
which God sheweth towards his church, the only proper sub-
ject thereof is the church. Concerning this flock it is that
our Lord and Saviour bath promised, " I give unto them
eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any
pluck them out of my hands." They who are of this society
have such marks of distinction from all others as are not objects
unto our sense only unto God who seeth their hearts, and under-
standeth all their secret cogitations, unto him they are clear
and manifest. All men knew Nathaniel to be an Israelite.
but our Saviour, piercing deeper, giveth further testimony of
him than men could have done, with such certainty as he
did, ' Behold indeed an Israelite, in whom there is no guile.'
He would now proceed to another scriptural meaning of the
church. In every age of the world since the days of Abra-
ham there had been a portion of mankind separated from all
the rest, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight
of man. A man of Mesopotamia was selected by God to be
the organ among a selected society among men. That society
was to bear a family aspect in the household of Abraham.
It afterwards assumed a national aspect, and eventually in-
cluded many nations. The mode of admission was carried
into the national aspect of the society, and all the children of
Israel were circumcised. When our Lord Jesus Christ sent
forth the apostles to make disciples of all nations, the mode
of admission was 'altered; circumcision was abrogated and
baptism adopted. This society had been the visible dwelling-
place on earth of the church mystical in its successive gene-
rations. The society thus called contained not only mem-
bers of the church, but also men who had neither part nor
lot in any of the spiritual blessings of the church. In the
language of St. Paul, " All are not Israel that are of Israel."
The reverend lecturer then proceeded to refer to the parable
of our Lord of the company at the marriage supper, " many
are called, but few are chosen," and to his prophetic an-
nouncement, " and they went out and gathered all, both good
and bad, and the wedding was furnished with guests." He
wished, he said, his dissenting brethren, who deny the true
scriptural warrant for a visible church, to pay attention to this.
It was not the mere definition of man, but the command of
God to his disciples to go and get as many as they could
find (hear). Here we recognised scriptural authority for
what our opponents denounced as wholly anti-scriptural—
viz., a national church (hear). One of the most able writers
of e dissenters (Dr. Wardlaw) in a series of lectures deli-
vered last year, said that the Jewish nation was a type of the
spiritual or mystical church. Now he (the lecturer) asked
if it was correct to represent the Jewish nation as a type of
the church mystical (hear, hear). The rev. gentleman then,
at considerable length, proceeded to examine Dr. Wardlaw 's
argument on the" visible" church. It had been said by Dr.
Wardlaw that the Jewish nation was a type of the mystical
church, and he affirmed without the least apprehension of
refutation, that the Jewish nation did not correspond to, and
never was designed to be a type of the church mystical
(hear, and cheers) ; and he charged Dr. Wardlaw, and all
who agreed with him, as guilty of the offence of declaring the
Jewish nation, with all its mingled abominations, contained
the divinely constituted type of the spiritual church (hear).
There was another scriptural application of the expression—
" The church." It was used to denote any subdivision of
the baptised; a subdivision so small as might assemble in a
private house. Under this meaning of the word " church"
might be considered the exhortation of the Lord, in St.
Matthew, chap. 18. t
" Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go
and tell him his fault between thee and him alone ; if he shall
hear thee thou halt gained thy brother,

" But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or
two more, that in the mouth of two pr three witnesses every
word may be established.

" And' if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the
church."
What church did He mean? The whole baptised society ?
Absolutely physically impossible. How could the Christian
of Antioch go to that of Crete, of Ephesus, or of Ronie ?
(hear) ; which was the allegation made by a very large party
of our opponents. Our Lord was here represented as ex-
horting- a Christian under peculiarly • distresSing circum-
stances to do what it was utterly impossible to attempt to do.
(Hear.) " Take it to the church." Again we asked what
church. If it were alleged that'our Lord intended the minis-
ters of the church of the place, then He was represented as
constituting His ministers judges in secular trespasses. It
was carefully to be remarked that the case in question was
one of supposed dispute among brethren in an individual
trespass, and not a case of spiritual controversy. Now, the
allegation that he thus constituted his ministers judges, was
to say that he commanded them to do, what, under similar
circumstances. he refused to do himself. (Hear.) " Tell it
to the church." Again we ask, what church ? and we answer
clearly, that subdivision of the baptised society that is within
our reach, " the church local." There was yet d fourth
meaning as to the word church. It was used to signify a
geographical combination of the divisions or congregations
of the baptised, each having its own minister, and all under
the general superintendence of one chief pastor. This mean-
ing was denied by all those who regarded as anti-scriptural
the essential constitution of a Christian church. It was a
fact capable of detailed proof, that episcopacy was uniform at
the time of the reformation, and the reformers of Germany,
Switzerland, and Scotland would not have departed from it
had their bishops, like ours, led the reformation instead of
resisting it. (Cheers.) But no arguments derived from any
other source than the Scriptures would have full effect with
the class of objectors to whom he addressed himself, and who
perpetually appealed to the Bible. He was anxious that the -
question should be thus argued, and to the Bible let us go.
(Hear, hear.) In the 19th chapter of the Acts of the Apos-
tles we read, with respect to the exertions and increase of
the. Christian church, and spoken of by Jews and Greeks, it
was said—" And many that believed came and confessed,
and showed their deeds. Many of them also which used
curious arts brought their books together, and burned them
before all men ; and they counted the price of them and found
it 50,000 pieces of silver." Compare this with the fact that
they had then no large public buildings for Divine worship,
and that the Pagan authorities were too jealous of their own
superstition to allow the believers in Jesus to carry out their
worship in one large company in the open streets. Where
and how could the increased multitudes of the Christians
worship ? Clearly in private houses ; an answer deducible
from the circumstances of the case, and confirmed by the
repeated mention of churches and families. In the 20th
chapter of the Acts of the Apostles, we, read of the elders or
presbyters of the church of Ephesus assembling at Miletus
to receive St. Paul: " And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus,
and called the elders of the church." In the 28th verse St.
Paul said, " Take heed, therefore, unto yourselves, and to
all the flock over which the Holy Ghost hath made you over-
seers, to feed the church of God, which he bath purchased
with his own blood." " And when he had thus spoken. he
kneeled down and prayed with them all." We saw here that
there existed at Ephesus thus early a company of Christian
teachers, and we had seen the necessity that existed of a com-
pany of Christians congregating in different places. Accord-
ing to the views of certain dissenters, there was at Ephesus
a number of independent churches, each having its own pas-
tor ; and it would have been anti-scriptural for any one indi-
vidual to have claimed pastoral authority at Ephesus, com-
bined them all into one church, and called himself their
chief. The reverend lecturer theu.went on to observe, that
what he claimed was this—the selection of some individual
to whom our Lord calls, not an angel, or a presbyter of a
church in Ephesus, but the angel of the church in Ephesus.
The question then was, what was this intended to convey ? Did
it mean one only of the many congregations, each having its
own pastor ? or was it intended for the geographical combi-
nation of congregated Christians, as one church, under one
chief pastor, or angel? If it was intended for one only con-
gregation and pastor, then how could it have been ascertained
for which ? (Hear.) How would the angel have made the
invidious selection, where all were on a perfect equality ?
And what rivalry and confusion would have resulted ! (Hear.)
Each would have claimed !t, and each would have had as
good a right to it as the other. If, on the contrary, our Lord's
address was intended for the geographical combination of
congregated Christians as one church under one chief pastor,
as the angel of the episcopal church, in which there are many
pastors, we have the very constitution of episcopal superin-
tendence in existence among ourselves at this day. (Cheers.)
It was such a combination that he ventured to designate the
church collective as distinguished from the church universal
or catholic. The rev. gentlemen next touched upon the epis-
copal constitution of the established church, and observed,
in reference to his view of the subject, that all was easy, na-
tural, consistent, harmonious ; we wrest nothing, conceal
nothing,—we explain away nothing of its scriptural doctrine ;
but he did assert it appeared to him that the opponents of
episcopacy certainly seemed to require some ingenuity to avoid
the power of such scriptural argument. Suppose a renewal
of miraculous gifts were to take place, and an angel to preside
over the established church in London was to be chosen, we
should have no difficulty in at once selecting the individual—
(cheers)—but he would ask under such circumstances to
whom would the dissenter forward such a communication.
(Hear.) He then briefly remarked upon the essential diffe-
rence between the Church of Scotland and the Church of
England, as exhibited in his lecture. was seen to be the
church mystical and visible, and local and collective. The
reverend lecturer retired amidst loud cheers.