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Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1847-03-09 00:00:00

f.-Sm in. an explanatory speech: moved that
in order to assist an(

Li encourage

the colonies, it was expedient to increase the importance
and agency in Great Britain and Ireland, and promote
their 'vigilant superintendence of the passage and future
location of emigrants.

The motion was seconded by Mr. MA.CKINNON, and
supported by Mr. LEiROY and Mr. KERR.
Me. I-lAwEE, in reply to the arguments of Mr. V.
Smith, observed that there was already an active and vi-
gilant superintendence at the ports both of embarkation

and landing.
Some questions put by Mr. Smith O'Brien on the sub-
ject of emigration from Ireland having been answered by
Lord J. Russell, Mr. V. Smith withdrew; his motion.
IltatE then proposed four resolutions on the sub-
ject or-Cracow. He commenced his observations by giv-
ing the house a history of the proceeding's, contending
that Lord Palmerston had so completely demolished the
Austrian document that no man in future could have the
audacity to pretend to give it the slightest credit. As we
had in our power, under legislative enactment, a sum of
money which we had intended to pay to Russia, under
certai,n stipulations, which she had broken, he saw no rea-
son why we should keep our part of the treaty, and allow
the other part of it to be violated. He considered that
we were liberated from the obligation of the Russo-Dutch
Loan .by the reckless manner in which the Emperor Ni-
ehola, on whose Polish policy he passed the bitterest
condemnation—had broken through all the arrangements
of the Congress of Vienna for the independent existence
of Poliind. . . .

Lord SANDON Alla not often called Upon to second a
motion iade by Mr. Hume, nor could heon the present

bad ued, especially with respect to a sovereign with whom
we were at present in friendly alliance. Still he agreed
so mttch in the main purport of Mr. Hume's resolutions,
that lie felt justified in coming openly forward to second
them. The most curious circumstance in these diplo-
matic' papers was the undiseised consciousness of the
Austrian, Prussian, and Russian ministers that they were
engaged in A transaction which they could not justify to
the wprld, much less to France or England. He con-
cluded by declaring, that, if we were :tit liberty to with-
hold payment 'of the Rosso-Dutch loan, we ought to do
so, as: the mildest wayet expressing our disapprobation of
the gyoss breach of contract committed by Russia.

For some time no one rose to address the hot

Lord JOHN RUSSELL concurred in the view of Mr,
Hume, that the three powers were not justified by the
treaty of Vienna in.deeiding by themselves the quest-
whether the free state of Cracow should be maintf,'
not. The existence of Cr g
tainecT, he thought that when c,ompl its

cow haling thus

hick i

been tuilty of
Majesty's goY4

)lafion of the Treaty of Vienna
ent. had directed Lord Palmei

It
reign Aff

t Commons should

ritrial;i7esolutiono condemnatory 01 1110 L:uuuuu. vi a u),
reign Rower, unless it was prepared to follow that step up
by some act of an, executive character. He raw ,no ad. 7
vantage in the home altering its usual course on-this oe;
camon—it would gain nothing by it in .dignitYP lore°, or

...-pect---ittid, therefore, while he did not hesitate to de-
ttimge, that he adhered to his former opinions as.to the un-
jitstifiable extinction of Cracow as a fre%4tate, he shouldmove the preNious question, if the same opinions were in-
corporated into a resolution of the House of Commons.
Though in some of the late transactions in Europe our
protests had been disregarded, our moral force had been
increased and fortified • for there was no treaty, either an-
cient or modern, which had either violated, disregarded,
or set at nought.
On the motion of Mr. BROTHERTON, the debate was
then adjourned to Thursday.

HOUSE OF LORDS

FRIDAY,

Earl GREY rose to move the. second reading of the two
bills relating to convict discipline, of which he had given
notice on a preVious evening, and at the same time wished
to avail himself of the opportunity to state the determina-
tion to which the government had come with regard to
the whole subject of secondary punishments. They had
resolved, then, to make a change which amounted to no-
thing less than a total abolition of the system of tran-
sportation which had existed for so many years. After
premising that this change would not affect the deporta-
tion of convicts for purposes of punishment to Bermuda
and Gibraltar, where the term transportation meant an
entirely different system than that exercised in Australia,
the noble lord proteeded to review the latter system, and
the various modifications it had undergone down to the
present time ; and having shown that it had been ineffec-
tual, expensive, and ruinous both to the convicts them-
selves and the colonies to which they were transported,
went on to state the new regulations which it was pro-
posed to adopt for the punishment of offenders. Instead of
being transported, they were to be kept at home, at first for
a certain period in:separate confinement, and afterwards,
when discharged from this preliminary state, employed for
a stated time on public works ; the principle of this em-
ployment would be that the convicts were to be subject to
a system according to which they would have a great and
direct interert in their own good conduct, notonly to abridge
the period for which their punishment was to last, but also
to enjoy certain immediate and positive advantages, It was
also intended that every convict who really conducted
himself well, who worked industriously, and did not incur
any fresh punishment for misconduct, should be enabled
to obtain his discharge at the termination of half the pe-
riod for which he was sentenced. When this period was
expired a pardon would be granted to the offender, on
condition of his. emigrating from England ; and to, assist
him in carrying this intention into effect, the government
proposed that criminals, during the latter period of their
employment on the public works should be allowed wages
to nearly the full value of their labour, the money being
allowed to accumulate until the time for granting the
pardon had arrived. After entering into further details, the
noble earl concluded by stating, that in the course of the
present year it was-calculated that means would be avail-
,t I able in Great Britain by which every convict sentenced. to

transportation could be made to undergo the proposed
preliminary period of separate confinement ; and, with
respect to the employment of convicts in public works,
that the govenment were preparing wooden buildings,
which could be puf up where great public works were in
progress, and removed, after their completion, to another
site.

Lord ltgotiGn Am expressed great admiration at the
statement made by. Earl Grey. Generally speaking, he

had come to the same conclusion, that transportation
ought to cease; he was not, however, sure that it might
not be beneficially retained in certain cases. In his
opinion, it would be most safe to confine the punishment
to persons in a superior rank in life, because to such per-
sons it was indeed a most awful infliction, while to persons
of a lower grade in society it was no punishment at all.

He was not at all pleased With that part of the noble earl's
propositionwhich rendered compulsoryexile a consequence

of penal imprisonment, and thought our neighbours, the
French, would put a high prohibitive duty on the importa-
tion of offenders under the new system.

Lord STANLEY entertained doubts as to the policy of
abolishing transportation, which he believed was that
secondary punishment most dreaded by hardened offenders.
As for the plan of imprisonment proposed to be substi-
tuted instead of transportation, he ventured to say that
such a system must break down—a system which, in the

first place, would revolt against the feelings of the people
of this country ; and which, in the second place, must, if
fully carried out as it ought to be, interfere with the
demand for labour. It would throw the whole of the
government employment for the public works, which was
now held by an honest and deserving population, into the
hands of a convict population, who would be well fed and
kept, and perhaps, at the end of their sentence, be sent
ont as free labourers, or as emigrants to the colonies or
elsewhere.

Lord DENMAN was extremely rejoiced to hear that the
Norfolk Island establishment was to be broken up, but
could not refrain from expressing the greatest possible
dismay at the prospect of the total abolition of transpor-
tation. He hoped no great change would be adopted in
the system without the most serious deliberation.
The Duke of RICHMOND hoped that the government
would reconsider their plan, and seriously reflect upon the
expediency of following the advice given them by his no-
ble and learned friend the Chief Justice.

Earl Grey replied to the various objections which had
been made to his propositions ; and after some further
discussion the two bills were read a second time.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

FRI D AY

Mr. MILNER GIBSON, in answer to Dr. BOWRING,
stated that the only new quarantine regulation which had
been adopted, was with respect to Turkey importing mon-
enumerated goods, which were to be exempted from
quarantine if they were provided with clean bills of health,
and the crews and passengers free from suspicion in a
sanatory point of view. . _

Mr. LABOUCITERE, in answer to Lord DUNCAN, replied
that the Poor-law Commissioners had issued explicit
orders that all defaulters in the payment of rates in Ire-
land should be summarily dealt with, the collectors
throughout that country having been directed to require
immediate payment.

Capt. LINDSAY moved an address for an inquiry into
the canteen system in barracks, and as to whether it would
not be advantageous to the discipline and to the moral im-
provement of the troops to prevent the sale of spirituous
liquors therein,
.or within the precincts or proximity of
barracks.
On an assurance from Mr. F. MAULE, that the whole
canteen system should undergo the most rigid investiga-
tion with a view to rendering it next to impossible that it
should tend to the deterioration of the morals or health
of the army : and after some observations from other
honourable members, Captain LINDSAY withdrew his
motion.

Mr. J. O'CONNELL in an explanatory speech, drew• the
attention of the house to the advisability of employing
he labouring population now engaged on the public works
in Ireland in the tillage of land.
Mr. I 11 d the

immucHERE was not at at surprised that
honourable gentleman should avail himself of the forms
of the house to bring the calamitous condition of Ireland
under its notice, but as regarded the proposals made by
the honourable gentleman, he conceived it to be the duty
of the Government unreservedly to state, that it would be
impossible for them, as well as impracticable, to act upon
them.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL lamented very much that, in cer-
tain districts, tillage had not been proceeded with, but he
still hoped it would be found more general than was anti-
cipated, that hope being grounded upon the well-under-
stood determination of the Government not to interfere
in the manner pointed out by the honourable member for
Kilkenny.

len went into committee of supply, Colonel
A.NsoN moving the ordnance estimates ; after which, the
navy estimates were proceeeed with, the discussion on
which occupied the remainder of the sitting.

house t'