The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-05-15 00:00:00

tions had been separately made sy the sun/Q*3r and other
competent persons, yet their• estimates came as near to one
another as well could be, taking into consideration the land,
and strand, and graving-docks. if any confidence were to
be placed in the skill and honesty of the officers who made
those calculations ; if the council were disposed to abide by
their own mature confirmation of the proceedings of the
Finance Committee, it was rather too late to do anything
that would have a tendency to annul a solemn agreement
between two bodies. The corporation had no eye to the
warehouse owners at all in the price they fixed upon the
land. And although it was at first recommended by the
Finance Committee that the price should be fixed by a jury,
and although he would not depart from the propriety of that
principle, yet, when they saw that the safety of the bill was
at stake, they certainly did, in the exercise of their discre-
tion, recommend a deviation from the original plan, and that
.£2 13s. 6d. should be taken for the whole land, which was
three shillings more than was recommended, and what the
council would have approved eighteen months ago. The
time would come when nothing in those statements, or cal-
culations, or steps taken for ascertainin,, the value of the
land, need be withheld ; for regular calculations were made,
with great care, to ascertain what was likely to be the value
of the land if laid out partly for docks, partly for warehouses,
and partly for what Mr. Earle had recommended, and it
came out as nearly as possible the price that was fixed upon.
The Finance Committee were prepared to justify their recom-
mendation at the proper time ; for, though they did not
shrink from showing the documents and papers, they thought
it improper to bring them before the council now, when they
might, be sent up to have the bill defeated. Though Mr.
Earle might as he professed, have been struck all of a heap,
and could not get up to say " I beg to have that subject
postponed," there had been other opportunities since, and
he had been silent. He should conclude by saying that the
Finance Committee had been influenced by no desire for
concealment, hurry, cr smuggling, and that at the proper
moment they were prepared to lay before the council the
two calculations on which they came to their conclusion.

Mr. BOLTON, concurred in this view taken by the chair-
man of the Finance Committee. He thought that the
council had proceeded too far to bring into question their
former judgment; and as it was stated by the promoters of
the bill that it was essential that the price should be fixed,
there was no course, but to fix some. Mr. Earle said that
it should have been inserted in the ordinary notice; but
that was impossible. Those were written on Saturday the
29th of March ; the deputation returned on that day ; and
it was not till the 31st that the Finance Committee became
aware of the necessity of fixing the price. Did Mr. Earle
say that he was ignorant of the fact, that £2 13s. 6d. had
been recommended ?
Mr. EARLE-I do deny it most distincly.

Mr. BOLTON.-At all events he heard the reasons for fix-
ing it; and he (Mr. Bolton) thought that the circumstances
fully justified the course pursued. There had been an en-
deavour to cast an imputation on the Finance Committee and
the council, but he should show, by a short statement, that
this was undeserved. The two graving docks, which were
in an exceedingly dilapidated state, comprised 25,963 square
yards, and they had paid, on the average of the last six
years, £1641 14s. I Id. The sum that the dock trust was
to pay to the corporation of those docks, was £69,451, which
at four per cent., would produce an income of £2,778, while
the recent income, laying aside the necessity of rebuilding,
was only two-and-a-half. The land at the west side of the
Salthouse Dock was 37,323 yards, of which 7,040 yards
were composed of the land between the west side of the
Salthouse Dock and Trentham-street. The remaining
30,000 yards consisted of ship-building yards, which were let
at Is. 6d. a square yard. To that were to be added (and for
which the Dock Committee were to pay ; but they were to
be at the expence of erecting the walls to make the land)
18,496 yards on the west side of the Salthouse Dock, includ-
ing the strand, for which the dock trust was to pay £149,315.
That at four per cent., would produce £5,972. The average
of ;the last six years, on what was called the Salthouse
Dock estate, was £1,977, or one and one-third per cent.
,The graving docks would produce twenty per cent. more
than they did at the present time, and the other three
times more ; and so, therefore, it was a most advantageous
bargain to the corporate estate to have it sold. And not only
that, but the purpose for which it was sold was one the most
calculated to promote the prosperity of the port. The town
was inconveniently situated by having docks so far removed
to the north and south. The docks would there bring back
the trade to the heart of Liverpool, and then it would be con-
venient to the merchants to go and see their business done,
instead of neglecting it, as they now too often did, from the
distance. In former times, the coporation gave land for erect-
ing docks ; and he maintained that that was the most prudent
thing that ever was done, and nothing brought back a greater
return than that to the town. Instead of £221,823, they
should not have charged anything for the strand. If Mr.
Earle's motion was acceded to, it was his opinion that some
apparent discrepancy or other would be seized upon, some-
thing on which counsel might hang an argument, for the pur-
pose of bamboosling parliament and defeating the bill. Mr.
Earle might disclaim anything of the kind ; but he was con-
vincedthat those with whom he (Mr. Earle) acted would not
hesitate to do so, to throw out the bill. Mr. Earle had stated
that the land might be used for carrier's offices, which were,
he believed, much wanted, and no doubt it might beneficially
done; but it it were done, at whose expense ? It must be
done by the corporation ; for he ventured to say that a return
of 4 per cent. would greatly exceed any other purpose to
which it could be devoted. He was at a loss to understand
Mr. Earle's motion. In his opinion, no more advantageous
an use of the land could have been made than to build docks ;
for docks were most beneficial things. It was the docks of
Liverpool which had laid the golden eggs. He thought that
the circumstances of the case fully aquitted the Finance
Committee from the charge of hurrying the matter forward.
Mr. Earle had expressed a hope that Mr. Rathbone would
support his motion ; but he (Mr. Bolton) regretted that Mr.
Earle should be associated with those who habitually opposed
himself and Mr. Rathboune. They (Mr. B. and friends)
were seeking that of which the town would approve, and an
enlarged view of which would, he hoped, induce parliament
to approve. After some other observations, the speaker con-
cluded by saying that warehouses had perhaps nothing to do
with the subject ; but he must say that he should no more
think of building docks without warehouses, than a mill with-
out machinery, or a house without modern conveniences.

Mr. Alderman S HEIL referred to the fact of Mr. Alderman
Earle having individually alluded to him, and said that it
would not therefore be proper in him to give a silent vote.
He could not exactly comprehend what Mr. Earle said ; but
he recollected that he (Mr. Earle) dwelt much on the neces-
sity of the council watching what he called another body.
This had struck him at once. Now, he should like to know
from Mr. Earle how the Dock Trust could be a committee
one week, and a distinct body another week. Last week,
when the question of the admission of reporters was under
discussion, it was a committee emanating from that council,
and over which the council had such entire control that it
could do nothing without them ; but this week it had become
a distinct and separate body. which they were called upon to I
watch with attention, and in the matter of bargains, to look
after them as strictly as though convinced they would take
every opportunity of cheating the council. The next opinion
that attracted his attention was one of Mr. Currie's. He
(Mr. Currie) told the council that Mr. Earle was a fair,
straightforward, candid, and upright opponent, and then
cautioned them not to fall into his trap. Think of a straight-
forward, honest man setting traps! (Laughter.) Mr. Bolton
had given utterance to an opinion of a very serious charac-
ter ; the others were little more than amusing. He told them
that, after the usual notices had been sent out, intelligence
arrived from London which rendered it necessary for the Fi-
nance Committee to come to an immediate conclusion on
this very important affair ; and that they assembled, and did
come to a conclusion, so as to bring the matter before the
council ; and he would ask, if they had time to do so, when
there was not time to get notices printed and sent round ?
Through that not having been done, they had given Mr. Earle
a good ground in favour of his motion ; and he (Mr. Sheil)
would vote for it, and he would tell the council for what rea-
son—because the proper notice was not given; and, again,
because the council should have all the information on an
important subject that they thought proper to call for. He
would also vote for it, because he thought it impossible to
produce calculations which would bring the council to the
same conclusion that the Finance Committee had come to.
How was it possible for any man to say what the land would
bring? He had no doubt that the Finance Committee had
laid a fair and just valuation on it, under all the circumstances.
It was not fit for anything but docks, and if it were put up
to sale the Dock Committee could be the only competitors.
A friend had reminded him that it was fit for shipbuilding
purposes and if that was the case, it was the dock trust
which had a right to complain of having been overcharged.
The two estates were both for the benefit of the public, and
what matter whether two or three shillings more or less was
charged for the land ? However, he should vote for the mo-
tion on the grounds stated.
Mr. RATHBONE would vote against the motion, because
he was a straightforward man, and liked to stick to a con-
tract. Besides, he should not like to condemn himself.
There had been a good deal of clap-trap bidding for popula-
rity ; but he would not bid for it, and make a splash about
this and that, when he knew, and every one of common sense
knew, that there are things which ought not to come before
the public till the proper time. Some of their body had
been sent up to London with powers that were not disputed,
and then, at the eleventh hour, those powers were to be dis-
puted. He thought that that was not fair to the party which
had been sent up by a large majority. (" No, no.") He
cared not for the contradiction, because he liked to give a
reason for the faith that was in him. He asserted that the
council had committed themselves by carrying that dock bill,
and that persons had been sent up to carry it, and they (the
council) ought to support them with the whole of their
power. Mr. Sheil had put the matter in a very proper light
whea he observed that the price was 'a thing of little or no
consequence. If they had given the land, there would have
been, in his opinion, nothing to complain of. They were
now doing what they ought to have done long ago—bringing
the trade into the centre of the town. He was one of those
who were now sorry that the Custom-house had been built
where it is. He did not admire the practice of continually
referring to the old corporation, but he must say that their
mismanagement of the dock estate was terrific. On one
side they had extended the docks- to please Lord Derby, and
on the other to please Lord Sefton, thereby greatly increasing
the expenses of commerce in Liverpool, and sending away a
good deal of the trade •, and it was only by coming back to
the sound principle of centralization that they should be
able to retrieve themselves. If they had given the land,
they would only have done their duty. They had made a
very bad bargain with the dock committee. Mr. Earle had
been bidding for popularity.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Nothing of the kind ; I don't
care a straw about it.
Mr. RATHI3ONE.—He regretted that his friend, the alder-
man, had been put into a somewhat doubtful situation. He
would not allude to motives; he did not like it himself.
Mr. EARLE.—Oh, out with it. (Laughter.)
Mr. RATHBONE.—He hoped that the council would not
bargain
accede to the motion. The report of the Finance Committee
qtukiteensubffvicsuiernptrinsoet.icTeLeor
no notice,
to prevent any on
(of the 31st Marceh) was quite
a
f • it
was
a binding one, and they could not withdraw from without
a want of honesty.
Mr. CURRIE, in reference to what had fallen from Mr.
qualified Mr. Earle's opposition as
Sheil, said that, when he q
downright straightforward, fierce even, he did it in accordance
Mr. Earle, that his op-
position declarations made openly by
in the views
Mr. Alderman BOOTH, thought he concurred
was on private, and not on public grounds.
of a measure
be improper to call into question the proppet
of Mr. Earle, on the subject of warehouses. ,though it would
deputation in month ago, arid on the faith of which the
which had received the unanimous sanction propriety
the council a
Lon-
don was now acting. He thought the price a very fair one.
Mr. Alderman BARCLAY, thought that however candid
Mr. Earle might generally be, he had hardly been candid on
that occasion. He had not stated the ground of the motion,
which in his (Mr. Barclays's) opinion, was to throw some
impediment in the way of the bill.
Mr. 11. LAWRENCE advocated the propriety of such
matters being invariably left to the consideration of a jury.
Mr. ROBERTSON GLADSTONE considered the motion of
Mr. Earle a perfectly justifiable one. It appeared to him,
that if there was to be " a purchase" by the dock estate
from the corporation, of the land in question, that it should
be at a rate equivalent to its value, and that he presumed,
could only be ascertained, by trying what it would bring by
public competition. But if, on the contrary, it was to be
a gift, as some members of the council had said it should be,
then let it
t be
not on a
of
thisift a
occasion
in reality ; but do not pretend to make a
sale, o
price far below the value of the property,
He u
approve of the conduct of the
Finance Committee, who had concluded this sale ; and their
canl and accept
o g
inconsistency had been proved, by the fact, that in the early
discussion of the proposal for building warehouses on the
dock quays, they had, in the first instance. recommended
the building of sheds to the council, though they had since
changed their minds, and now advocated the erection of
warehouses. Probably, therefore, if the subject were