The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-14 00:00:00

THANKS TO CAPTAIN TURNER.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.
Sin,--The Mary James, Jackson master, from Mostyn,
hound to Carnarvon with coals, upset in a squall, in Red
Wharfe Bay, at about one o'clock on Wednesday morning,
and the captain and crew with great difficulty got into the
boat, and, after drifting about nine hours, they were fortu-
nately picked up by the Chalton, Captain Turner, of White-
haven, who kindly furnished them with dry clothing and
other necessaries. I beg to acknowledge the kindness of
Captain Turner for myself and crew. Your's, &c..
JAMES JACKSON.

LIVERPOOL SUBSCRIPTION CONCERTS.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

Sin,—ln the programme and advertisements of the last
subscription concert, a paragraph was inserted, that " no
person will be admitted, on any account whatever, before
the time announced, which will be, for this concert, seven
o'clock precisely." I was surprised, therefore, on entering
the Theatre before the hour named, to find the boxes and
pit completely filled.
The arrangements for the whole of these concerts seem to
have been bad, and much complained of; but it is of no use
raking up old grievances, and we must only hope that some-
thing will be done to prevent a repetition of the confusion
next winter.
I would
apprsoupgrigaetset that a
dtn supboacrtriiobnerso,f
atlnide Tthhaetatrte be
heaeaexu-
tsclso
4.reinseled should be numbered from one upwards ; that sub,
scribers' tickets should be numbered in the order that sub-
scrip
tions are received; and that, on entering the Theatre,
each person should take the seat corresponding with the
number on his ticket. This, I think, would prevent a great
deal of the rushing and pushing that has taken place this
winter, since every subscriber would be certain of a seat,
and would not be under the necessity of being at the Theatre
half an hour before the time announced for the opening of
ry
the doors, to get a seat.
M.r. Ashton deserves the thanks of the Liverpool public
forthe pleasure he has afforded, and, I am sure, would be
willing to adopt any improvement that might be suggested,
for t 'he better management of his concerts in future • and
ra
that his exertions
Ya Y bu
er
os ub
ce
cdei es ns fu s is
atnhte, sincere wish
A SUBSCRIBER. of

Feb. 12th, 1840.

NATIONAL EDUCATION.

LETTER FROM THE REV. THOMAS DREW, MINISTER OF

CHRIST CHURCH, BELFAST, TO THB REV. HUGH M'NEILE,
MINISTER OF ST. JUDE'S, LIVERPOOL.

RESPECTED BILOTHED.,—Under great anxiety of mind, I
addresS myself to ydu, inviting your aid in the investigation
of one of the most important subjects which has ever come
before our " household of faith," whether in England or
Ireland. A statement 'has gone forth, endorsed by names of
good and eminent individuals of the Presbyterian commu-
nion, acknowledging their adhesion to the Board of Irish
National Education, and professing their satisfaction with
the conditions upon which that adhesion is founded. I have
read the statement of one known and valued by the universal
Church Catholic; and though it may look like presumption,
I must 'unwillingly but honestly, avow lam not satisfied
with the statement. I would have waited longer ; but when
the Christian Journal, Limerick Standard, and various
other newspapers in the country, are proclaiming their de-
light in this arrangement, and urging upon the clergy of the
Established Church to hasten and secure like favourable ad-

vantages for themselves; when an influential pen speaks of
these advantages " as equally extending to all Protestants,"
I see that no time is to be lost. I have sad misgivings about
all this. I may be slow of understanding, and erroneous in
my poor judgment ; but as yet I see no change in the prin-
ciples of the Board. A few arrangements have been modi-
fied, and some new arrangements adopted ; but the same
Offensive principles which ever existed, appear to me to exist
still. If lam wrong, let me be set right ;—momentous issues
hang upon this matter. I feel every inclination to submit
my judgment to the " wise and prudent" of my brethren, and

I trust they will not scorn to receive my reasons for With-
holding (for the present at least) my approbation or confi-
dence. My respected fellow-labourer, Dr. Cooke, main-
tains, in the close of his remarkable letter, " that the prin-
ciples of the system were two, and no more :-Ist, a mixed
education of all sects, as far as attainable ; 2d, non-compul-
sion of one denomination to receive the religious instruction

of another. Of these two principles, the 'Synod of Ulster
never desired or sought any compromise," &c. Now, dear
and respected brother, I think this is a deficient statement—
it goes not to the root of the evil. To show this I must go
further back, and take up the whole question in a national
point of view.

From the bottom of my soul, I feel that we, as a nation,
have ever been in a most awful predicament since ever the

foul principle was recognised, that religion and education are
separable terms. In my heart I feel the Eternal God has
united them, add that no man, save at the peril of his soul,

can put them,asunder. The State has, in its Board system,
disconnected them ' • in its treaty by the hands of the Lord
Lieutenant it has disconnected them ; and thus it is done :
The state says—" We insist upon provision being made for
secular instruction ; that being done, you may add to the
hours appointed for secular instruction as many hours as you
please for religious instruction ; but that is your concern,
not ours. In your after hours, (for it is a fancy to call them
stated school hours), you may have Bible, or Butler's Cate-
chism, the Westminster Confession, or M'Hale's Epistles to
. .

the faithful—or you may let all this alone. If you4have re-
ligion to your several tastes, with this we, the Board or State,
have nothing to do. One thing is certain, fixed, immutable,

-THE BUIL: SHALL BE EXCLUDED DURING THE SECULAR

HOURS-it shall not be a school-book at all; and when in
the appendixed hours it is introduced, the Roman Catholic
may flee from its sight, as from that of a thing abhorred !"
This, to my mind, was and is the fixed principle of the Board.
In vain I am told that there are school hours in which it may
be read. This appears to me but the old thing under a new
name. The " separate hours" of other days are tacked to
the school hours and called by the one name. Then the

Word of God is not as free as any other book—it is the
manacled thing it ever was until Missa Est is proclaimed,
and declaration made for all who reject it to abscond and
deny it reverence.
Now, let the Board—let Dr. Hineks—let all who write on

this subject explain to me, if they can, if this be not dispar-
agement of the blessed Word of God ? Dr. Hincks rails
against the Bible as unfit to bea school-book. I would hum-
bly entreat attention to my published sermon, as preached
before the Sunday School Society, and there see how, from
God's Word, it is proved that by inference, adaptation, and
by positive command, it must be the basis and leaven of edu-
cation—that there can be no education separate from it—and,
further, that no book on earth is so adapted for the heartand
head of a child; as this same Word of God. Shall it then be
left to any schoolmaster, or local patron, so say whether he
shall or shall not have religious instruction from God's Word ?
I am pained beyond measure to see the Rev. Frederick
Trench, in his Christian Journal, advocating an immediate
and universal junction of Protestants with the Board. -He,
and such as he, must surely be unaware that the Bible is not
yet free. I mean, that the State has thus committed us, as
a nation, to an education which may or may not have the
Bible, just as patrons or schoolmasters may decide. This is a
fearful national sin ; and a league formed with a Board which
recognises this principle of indifference to the primary claims
of God's Bible, is, at least, hazardous and alarming.
The State isbound,- before God to give the people educa-
tion ; yea, education united with religious teaching—the
Bible, the first and best ingredient. I feel that the State
dare not, if God were feared, offer this education exclusive of
the Bible. I feel that if the State offer us such an educa-
tion, that we are not at liberty to partake of it, no matter how
splendid the inducements which they have dangled before
our eyes—no matter though collateral benefits, bringing
temporal advantages to our church, should form a codicil to
the grant. "Be not partakers of other men's sins," is
written in light for our guidance ; and it appears to be our
duty, as ministers, to appeal to the throne, to peer and com-
moner—to prince and peasant—to rectify this awful error of
the State, which leaves the Word of God to man's caprice,
and while it offers to the Presbyterian with one hand such
indulgence as may be claimed, leaves to Rornanism, on the
other, the most deadly and overwhelming influence in con-
veying mental poison into the minds of millions.
In vain we are met with the plausible cry of united educa-
tion; and that for the sake of the importance of this, much
must be conceded on all sides. Yes! everything may he
conceded where God's word is not destroyed. But it is dis-
obedience in state or parson, presbyter or prelate, to turn out
God's Word in order to accomplish this end. Do what they
will, this must not be. And if the State insists on its hours
for secular and scientific learning, leaving the Bible to its
fate at the hands of Presbyters or Rornanists, then the state
is a criminal before God, and having plundered God of his
rights, puts into a similar peril of accusation all who con-
nive at the spoliation, the recipient being proverbially held
to he as bad as the plunderer.
The Board has by no means given up the au-called princi-
ple or united education: (Prue ; they now allow the synod to
apply, unaccompanied by the priest. Dr. Cooke need not go
arm in arm with the learned Bishop Denvir to solicit aid ; but
though the application may not be called united, the Board
will expect that still the education shall be united. It does not
suppose that it gives aid merely to children of Presbyterians.
I am satisfied the Board expects that the national schools shall
be open to all denominations, and that Seceders, Methodists,
Church children, and Roman Catholics shall be admitted. I

am equally satisfied that my respected Presbyterian brethren
would cordially give them such advantages as their parents
would permit them to accept.
This, then, is to me a grand objection : the state sinfully
recording its indifference to the Bible—the Board (represent-
ing the state) living up to this principle, and therefore unwor-
thy of the alliance of Bible-honouring men.
But what of the constitution of the Board ? Is that changed ?
Many an hour have my ears been plied with statements
of the anomalous, incongruous, unholy combination which
exists there, in Protestants, Romanists, and Socinians ;
the Board is still unclean in the admixture of its ruling
elements. Dr. Murray is there, the patron of equivocal theo-
logy—and Holmes, the talented barrister, who would surely
not be counted an orthodox dispenser of sacred truths, nor a
sufficiently safe guardian of orthodox little ones ; Mr. Blake,
a Romanist, is there also ; and so the matter stands, as it
ever did. Yet does my memory fail me, or was not this with
you, dear sir, and others, who must be nameless, an objec-
tion often urged with lightning-scathing eloquence, and re-
sponded to with deafening cheers? I am a churchman by
birth, education, and liking : I am high church enough to
desire that all the education in the land should be entrusted
to the prelates of my own beloved communion. Yet if edu-
cation will not be so entrusted, I am /ow church enough to
be content if it be placed in orthodox hands ; and I would
be delighted beyond measure to see a Board constituted,
with holy orthodox men co-operating with the governors
of our church, in administering an unfettered Bible edu-
cation to the millions of Irish children. Such an educa-
tion, I feel confident, would be received. Our exclusively
church-schools have many hundreds of children of Dissenting
and Roman Catholic parents : still more has the valuable
London Hibernian Society upwards of 40,000 Roman Catho-
lic children, and perhaps 60,000 more of the children of
Dissenters. From this I see that a Bible education WOULD
be received, administered by orthodox hands. Under the seal
of the state its success would be measureless. The priests
would growl and be furious; but steady perseverance, under
Heaven's blessing, would be triumphant. Never yet, mark!
was this kind of education boldly and consistently tried by
the State. The Kildare-place Education Society was lout
feebly and timidly administered ; never yet has the Scriptural
education of the people had a fair trial—never yet had it
been tried upon Christian, Scriptural, Catholic, Orthodox
principles. The Board thus constituted, in such wise as is
incompatible with the nature of a Protestant state, and ad-
ministering education in such a manner as must still appear
inconsistent with Protestant principles, may modify arrange-
ments, may appear to make concessions, and parley prettily
upon paper or in council chamber ; but there stand on fixed
and obnoxious principles the original statements, the Scrip-
tureless enactments, and the latitudiharian indian-rubber
arrangements, which change, as the cameleon his colour,
but the nature of the beast remains unaltered.
My dear and reverend sir, do you not tremble for the
changes which are before us? The transfer of rights and
privileges is about to go on in fearful velocity ; and I fear,
lest the voices of God's ministers may be silenced in many
of our clergy aid stations, if our ministers " hark in" at the
cry of miscalculating newspapers. What a deplorable thing it
would be for us of the Established Church who have now
divine service frequently celebrated in our school houses under
episcopal license, ever readily conferred—if, having given up
to the Board the title deeds of these schools, we sold our pri-
vileges, and thus consented that the preaching of the, gospel
should, within these humble walls, be heard never more! I
grieve for the extinguishing of many a gospel light which will
now take place through the hills and valleys of Ulster—
schools may flourish, but the feet of the preacher will never
be beautiful on such desert places more.
worst of all in practical demonstration. Will not Roman-
ism be the greater now ? Would you believe it, that for se-
veral days back I am under the impression that the shrewd
northerns have been taken in by their crafty brethren of the
south—and that query lists have been removed, and Presby-
terian ministers allowed to apply in their own single memo-
rial, &e. &c. &c., in order that the Roman Catholic priests
might be enabled to do likewise, and the Board be enabled
to give them all they desire, "no question being asked." If
Presbyterians have received a boon in their thousands—what
has Popery gained in their millions ? If Ulster's venerable
Synod draws on the purse of the sagacious Board for tea
thousand a year—(a sum needed for 210 congregations, which
have at least three schools each, at the rate of eight pounds
a year minifnum)—will not the Romish prelates crave one
one hundred thousand a pear? If Presbyterianism gain seven
fold by this then has Popery gained seventy times seven fold
of a verity I fear that Murray is wiser than Dr. Whately,
and that the Jesuit has the best of the inauspicious bargain.
I am painfutiy aware of the miserable position in which
this unexpected business has placed us—l am distressed, that
there is no possibility of deferring such a public notice as this
without a risk, which at first sight was not apparent—for when
I found several of my clerical brethren ripe for enlarging the
ranks of craving applicants and I studied the preferred
statements—I found no relief. I was as much as ever dissa-
tisfied ; I counted the cost, and by resource was none short
of giving pain to some whom I have ever held in respect little
short of veneration—it is ever a miserable sight to exhibit
our dissatisfactions, doubts, and differences, to the eyes of
greedy and gratified Radicals. But this is better far than to
lie down in error, or suffer under the bitter stings of a sore
conscience. I lay before you, and the brethren of England
and Ireland, the views which in my poor judgment 1 feel con-
strained to entertain. I trust lam open to conviction, but
as in Ireland I cannot now apply to one whom I ever regarded
as infallible on these points, I look to the honoured land of
your adoption, and humbly inquire of you is the Board
really changed, or (like its patroness the Church of Rome,)
is it merely suiting itself to the fancies and prejudices of men,
while it abides by its own deadly principles ? We must soon
be set right—the human mind is never content to remain long
in equilibrio, and may the great God our Saviour, through
his Holy Spirit, give us a right judgment in this and in all
things, and bless our church, and you and all who preach,
and all who love Christ in sincerity.—Amen.
THOMAS. DREW, Minister,
Christ Church, Belfast,

REPLY OF THE REV. HUGH M'NEILE TO THE
REV. THOMAS DREW.
MY DEAR SlR,—Publicly appealed to, as I am, in your
letter, I can have no difficulty in giving you my opinion
through the same public channel. I must premise, how-
ever, that it is simply my individual opinion, given without
any consultation, without access to any information upon
the subject beyond what we all possess in common, and
without the slightest pretension to be considered as an ex-
pression of the sentiments of any collective body or party
whatever. I have little doubt, nevertheless, that a vast ma-
jority of our reverend brethren, in the United Church of
England and Ireland, do substantially agree in this opinion.
My view of the Irish Edacation Board system has from
the first, been very simple, and such as rendered all discus-
sion, in detail, wholly superfluous, so far as my own convic-
tions were concerned. _

It was, and is, a part of that system to promote instruction
in what I believe to be falsehood : cnnsequently, I never could
even parley about terms of connexion with it. To say that
it is also a part of the system to promote instruction in what
I believe to be truth, is nothing to the purpose. It may be
said of every heresy which has distracted the Christian
church, that it contained some truth ; but this, instead of au
excuse, only made the falsehood more dangerous, because
more subtle and deceptive.
If any system of education encourage instruction in Popery
or Socinianism, it is vain to plead, in its behalf, that it also'
encourages instruction in Christianity.
"Be not partakers of other men's sins." " Look not
every man on his own things, but every man also on the
things of others." These are Christian exhortations which
condemn all insulated selfishness. If the board offered me
the unrestricted use of the Bible and the prayer-book for my
own schools, I could not so exclusively look upon my own
things, and so uncharitably overlook the things of others, as
to give the sanction (however insignificant) of my name and
co-operation to a system which must equally countenance
the unrestricted use of the mass-book, and the 1.. nitarian new
version of the Testament.

The avowed design, and original constitution, of the
board, cut off me, and all who agree with me, from any ap-
proach towards any negotiation with it.
I have just read a report of a conversation which took
place in the House of Commons, on Friday evening last, be-
tween Lord Morpeth and Mr. Sergeant Jackson, but nothing
was elicited to throw any additional light upon the subject.
The line adopted by the Synod of Ulster seems to embar-
rass you. But why should it Your opposition to the board
was never grounded on the fact, that the Synod of Ulster also
was opposed to it. Their coalition on having obtained, as it
would appear, their own objects, does not affect your un-
changed Catholic duty. It may render the performance of
your duty more arduous, depriving you of valued counte-
nance, and powerful co-operation and advocacy, but it does
not, in my opinion, touch the foundation.
You will probably be accused of ultra and incorrigible
bigotry in holding out still, and you may find (though I do
not apprehend much) increased difficulty in procuring funds
to maintain and multiply your church schools; but none of
these things affect Christian duty. Let the lawful means
within your reach be sedulously and perseveringly exercised ;
the result is in higher hands ; mill in the end, it is better, if
the will of God be so, to have noTschool at all, than to pur-
chase support for thousands by becoming partakers in a sys-
tem which treats truth and falsehood as if it were impossible
for men to determine which is which ; in other words, as if
we had no revelation from God, and all doctrines were equally
good, and, of course, equally good for nothing.
It is argued, that the Synod of Ulster had a right to a
share of the public funds voted for education ; but I think
their claim should have been urged upon the government,
not upon the board. I understood all along that their nego-
tiations were with the government, and I thought them quite
right in continuing to press their application. But when the
government referred them to the board, I think they should
have declined, and pleaded that the objects and constitution
of the board were, in their judgment, so essentially unscrip-
tural, they could not treat with it. I am sorry they saw it
right to act otherwise,—for their own sake, rather than for
any injury it can inflict IA you and your good cause.
Only be united among yourselves : explain the principles,
and urge the claims of the Church Education Society. There
you have the true line drawn between latitudinarianism as
regards Christianity, and bigotry as regards any human for-
mula, and you teach nothing else. There you enforce
Scriptural Christianity, by means of the church formularies,
upon all, except when protested against by any parent ; in
which case you are content to teach Scriptural Christianity
without such special enforcement, but you give no sanction,
direct or indirect, to the teaching of any falsehood whatever.
This is the line we have adopted for our Collegiate Insti-
tution in this town, and we feel assured of its truly Christian,
and therefore legitimately Catholic, operation. It is equally
removed from the narrow intolerance which would elevate
any human composition, even our Church Catechism, into
an equality with the WORD OF GOD, and from the infidel in-
difference, which would degrade the Word of GOD doVIII to
an equality with the Mass Book, or any human composition.
—I am, my dear sir, very faithfully your's,
HUGH M'NEILE.
Liverpool, 11th February, 1840.