The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-11-02 00:00:00

Number of Meetings of Gene-

attended
.....34

Mr. J. Smith 57 Mr. Birkett
Mr. V. Yates 52 Woolwright
Mather
—J. Ilolmes
—W. Thornhill 47 —, Bushell 2B
Sir J. Walmsley .. 45 Morecroft 29
Mr. Bright
—J. Lawrence 40 Harboard l9
Cooper 38 Earle
—J. Robinson 37 Freme .19
—G. H. Lawrence 36 Jordan
Mellor 3?

.• Of Special Meetings_
summoned attd summoned attd
Mr. Thornhill .-... 40 38 Mr. Jordan 35 33
Bright 40 37 Morecroft..
Robinson ....40 35 Bushell.. " 'PI
—J. Holmes .... 40 31 i Harboard
Birkett
Slater 4O 24 Earle....
Mather ..
G.H.Lawrence 36 32 —J. Lawrence .. 34 33
Cooper 36 2S Yates 34 31
Woolwright .. 36 27 Procter. 33 30
Hodgson 36 22 Kilshaw lB 15
Freme .... .... 36 18 Parker ....
PARKS' COMMITTEE—Number of Meetings 6, of which
attended attended
.... (i Mr. Sheil
.... 1 Earle
.... 4 Sir J. Walruslcy —
.... 1 Mr. J. Lawrence 1
.... 1 Procter 5
.... 2 Birkett
•••• 6 Woolwright .. 3
MARKET COMMITTEE—Number of Meetings 25, of which
attended attended
Mr. H. Holmes ...... 24 1 Mr. M`Kee 25
Evans 22 , Smith
Thornhill
Jordan
FINANCE COMMITTEE—Number of Meetings 56, of which
attended' attended

35 15
34 34

Mr. Sandbach.
- Roskell...
Bushell...
Jordan
Houghton
Gladstone
Yates....

Mr. H. Hornby
Case
J. Holmes 4B
H0ught0n.....5
Leigh
Moon 45
Thornhill
Lawrence

Mr. Wood

E. Harvey
Sir J. Walmsley .. 25
Mr. H. Lawrence 32
C. H. Jones 27
Freme
Mather..

IMPROVEMENT COM MITTt
which _ .

:—Number of Meetings 24, of

Mr. Barclay

attendedl
... 20
... 20
99.

Earle -
H. Holmes,
Booth .....

Mr. Sandbacb
Platt ..
Woolwright
Blundell
Hodgson

attended
15
16
14
9
9

Evans

HEALTH OF THE TONVZ,: C
ings 12, of which

IMMITTEE—Number of Meet-

attended

attended

Mr. Case

Houghton
Wright..
Mellor ..
- Aikin.....
Bright ..
Yates.....

Mr. Cooper .
Bushell .
Gladstone
Kilshaw .
Slater ...

Moon ...
Jordan .
Harboard

Evans

DOCK CONLMITTEE—Number of Meetings 54, of which
attended; _ _ attended

Mr. Sandbach
Benn....
Booth ..
Hornby..
Bulley ..
Mellor ..
Sands ..
Holmes..

Mr. Barclay ..
G. Holt ..
Aikin
J. Holt ..
Smith ....
Horsfall
Ripley....
Moon ....
Middleton

Evans

SPECIAL COMMITTEES ON IRISH MAIL PACKETS—
Number of Meetings 7, of which

attended

attended
7

Mr. Aikin .....
Houghton..
Woolwright
Bright ....

Mr. Evans

Lawrence

Benn

COURT OF REQUESTS COMMITTEE—Number of Meetings
11, of which

attended',

attended
_ 9

11 Mr. Moreeroft
11 Slater ....
6 Smith
7 Copeland
LAW COURTS COMMITTEE—Number of Meetings 15, of

Mr. Evans .
Bright .
Toultnin
Cooper.

attended)

Mr. H. Hoinby.
H. Lawrence
Earle
Barclay
Sandbach

7 Mr. Shell
8 Sir J. Walrusley
14 Mr. Gladstone .
12 A. Smith .
9

attended
9
6
10
11

THE LANDING OF PASSENGERS AND PASSING OF THE

DUBLIN MAIL

The DEPUTY TOWN-CLERK read the following report of
the special committee appointed to take into consideration
the best means of facilitating the landing and embarkation of
passengers at Liverpool, and to secure the continuance of the
passing of the Dublin mails through Liverpool.—
" The committee, appointed 3rd June last, to consider and
report on the best means of facilitating the landing and em-
barking of passengers at the piers, and adopt measures to
secure a continuance of the passing of the London and Dub•
lin mails through Liverpool, have to report—
" That, although every effort was used both here and by
deputation in London, the committee were unable to prevail
on the Post-office, and other government authorities, to
withdraw from the arrangement already made for the em-
barkation of the Irish mails at Woodside.
" The committee have no doubt, however, as the advantage
expected have not only not been realised, but that increased
expense and positive disadvantage have been the result, that
by renewed exertion these mails may again be restored to
their former and natural channel through Liverpool.
" That strongly impressed with the necessity of improve-
ment and of affording every facility to passengers consistent
with the safety of the navigation, as the only sure means of
securing for Liverpool the desired preference, the committee
have had considerable discussion and consultation with the
dock surveyor, the marine surveyor, the harbour master, and
the corporation surveyor, and with other parties of practical
knowledge, and have maturely considered various plans to
accomplish the object ; among others, the committee beg to
call the attention of the council to one of a permanent stone
projecting pier at the Prince's-parade, together with sections
of the banks along the whole of the river walls, prepared by
Mr. Hartley, the dock surveyor, which have been of much
use to the committee, and will become hereafter of great
value ; but taking into consideration the impediment such a
projection must have to the navigation, and the effect it might
have upon the river itself, and fiirther in the expectation of a
material change being effected on the banks by the completion
of the continuous line of wall about to be formed by the new
dock, and'the probability that a permanent pier may then be
more advantageously placed, the committee deemed it ad-
visable to postpone each erection for the present, and in-
structed the surveyor (Mr. Franklin) to prepare a plan of a
sliding scale from the Seaeombe slip, which, though only
temporary, will be effectual in furnishing the means of land-
ing and shipping carriages, &c., at all times of the tide, with-
out the use of small boats.

" The committee beg to refer to the plan of the said stage,
and to the surveyor's report thereon, and to recommend it
for adoption by the council,
"The committee also recommend another and more suit-
able barge to be substituted fox the Boydell off George's Pier,
and that arrangements be made so that passengers may land
by one stage and embark by another-; and, further with a
view of relieving the occasional great pressure of so many
steamers resorting to that pier, the committee recommend
that the Runcorn packets, and steamers with passengers on
excursions to the mouth of the river, shall be required to
take on board and disembark their passengers on the pier
called the New Wall, to the west of No. 2 and 3 Graving
Docks, where they have water to go alongside at half flood
and half ebb, the usual periods of their departure and return.
With a view to carry out these recommendations, and for the
prevention of accident, the committee suggest the propriety
of directing the town-clerk to revise and to improve the bye-
laws affecting the landing-places and ferry boats."

THE VACANT ALDERMANSHIP,

The MA.yonid the last subject on the paper was to ap-
point a lit person, either from the councillors or from the
persons qualified to be councillors, to fill the vacancy in the
office of alderman, caused by the resignation of Mr. Alder-
man Harvey with payment of the fine.
Mr. HENRY LAWRENCE begged to propose Mr. William
Nicholl, of Abercromby-square, for the office. He was
satisfied that Mr. Nicholl would do ergtlitt to the council.
(Hear.)
Mr. SANDS (we believe) seconded the proposition.
Mr. Eva.Ns moved as an amendment that Mr. Robeat
Ellison Harvey be the alderman.
Mr. J. HORNE/. seconded the motion.
The election was carried by means of voting papers, each
member writing on a slip the name of the gentleman whom
he supported, and handing it to the town-clerk. When the
slips had all been filled, the numbers were stated to be as
follow :
For Hr. Harvey
For Mr. Nicholl
Majority for Mr. Harvey —3
Mr. Harvey was accordingly duly elected. The following
are the names of the gentlemen who voted in the division :
For Mr. Harvey—Councillors J. llolmes, Thornhill, H.
Holmes, .Mellor, WalinsleY, Aikin. Woollright, Bright,
Priestley, H. Hornby, Yates, Morecroft, Slater, M`Kee,
Jordan, J. Platt, and Mather; Aldermen J. Hornby, T.
Holt. Bulley, Freme, Roskell, Blackburn, Booth, Shell,
Barclay, Earle, Bean, Moon, G. Holt, C. H. Jones, J. Platt,
and the Mayor.
For Mr. Nicholl—Councillors Shand, Hodgson., I. Holmes,
Houghton, Case, Sandbach, Copeland, Wright, Barton,
Blundell, Sands, Toulmin, J. Lawrence, Robinson. Cooper,
H. Lawrence, Wood, Birkett, Gladstone, Bushell, Procter,
Rigby, Kilshaw, Parker,. H. Jones, jun. Leigh, J. Smith,
G. H. Lawrence, A. Smith, jun. and Harbord.

- -
VOTE OF TIIANKS TO THE MAYOR.
Mr. BLACKBURN begged to claim attention for a few mo-
ments while he addressed himself to the council and not the
chair. He had to propose a vote of thanks to the mayor,
as the present was the last public appearance previous to the
election. He believed that the members could not do less
than present their thanks to him for the way in which he had
presided over and conducted the business of the council dur-
ing the year be had been in office. For his own part, he could

'dr testimony_ to a

he had discharged the duties of his office, and lie
ure the nriemberi would all say that.he had gone through the
duties cf that office in a way highly honourable to the town
and highly Lonourable to biroseif. lie bee
propose a vote of thanks to him.
Mr. JAMES BOUNCY said he could not add a word to
what had been so well and truly said by Mr. Blackburn,
but begged most sincerely to second the proposition.
Mr. ISAAC Horatiss was willing to admit that
who undertook the duties of the office of chief magistrate
and discharged them satisfactorily was deserving of a vote
of thanks. But he could not forget that he had been on
two or three occasions interrupted the mayor, when he
conceived such interruption uncalled for and unnecessary.
(Hear.) Neither could he forget that he bad been present
in the revising court a few daybefore when Mr. Pim s name
was called. That gentleman, independent of the responsible
situation he filled in connexion with the St. George's Com-
pany, had, it appeared, paid his taxes ; and yet the Alecision
of the mayor was, that unless he appeared in the court he
must be struck off the list; and struck off he was accord-
ingly. (Hear.) He (Mr. Holmes) considered that there
was a sort of partiality exhibited by the mayor on that occa-
sion. He could not, therefore, join in the vote of thanks
which had been proposed, and he hoped that whoever might
occupy the chair in future would not improperly interrupt
any individual in the council. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HODGSON said lie rose with great pain on that occa-
sion because he wished to pay honour to the chair, and al-
ways to render honour to whom honour was due. He had
endeavoured to do so on every occasion ; but, in giving
honour, there was a duty due to himself as well as to those
with whom he was connected, and in the discharge of that
duty it was painful to him to differ from the sentiments of
those who had expressed themselves in favour of the past
conduct of the chair. (Hear.) Personally he would take no
exception to what had sometimes taken place in the council,
because he cared not for the interruptions to which, occasion-
ally, he had been subjected; but he thought, for the honour
of the gentlemen with whom he acted, for the spirit of truth,
and for the maintenance of that dignity which ought to be-
long to the council, that he should be guilty of a dereliction
of duty and a want of moral courage if he did not stand up
and say that the language which had been offered to him by
the mayor at the last meeting of the council ought never to
come from the chair—(hear)—and that it was most unpro
yoked by anything which had fallen from his lips. (Hear,
hear.) He challenged any gentleman to point a word which
had fallen from him that was calculated to call forth such an
observation as had then been used by the mayor. (Cheers.)
He repeated it that it was uncalled-for from the chair—that
it was unbecoming as between gentlemen, and that it was
such language as in private society could not be used. (Re-

3, therefore, to

~at every on

newed &JR.)
Mr. JORDAN rose to order. (Laughter.) If be was out
of order he would bow to the chair ; but he felt bound to say
that the language complained of had been apologised for by
the mayor.
The MAYOR requested Mr, Alderman Hornby to take the
chair as the present was a personal matter in which he could

not interfere.
The Mayor accordingly vacated the chair, and Alderman
Hornby took it immediately.
Mr. HODGSON proceeded to say that the language made
use of by the mayor on the occasion was such as could not
take place between gentlemen a second time in private so-
ciety. He was not accustomed to hear such observations
elsewhere. At the same time he should be very far indeed
from offering a vote of censure on the mayor; but as the
question had been mooted he felt constrained to tell him what
was not merely his own opinion of his conduct but the com-
monly-expressed opinion of the public out of doors—(hear,
.hear)—and he felt that he should be guilty of a dereliction of
that which was due to himself, as well as to the council, if he
had not the moral courage then to express it. He would
offer no opposition to the course which was being pursued
farther than retiring from the council when Mr. Blackburn's
motion was about to be put from the chair. (Cheers.)
Mr. EvANs rose, but
Mr. HODGSON continued to say that he bad recently felt
extreme disgust at seeing the mayor preside at a party meet-
ing. (Hear, hear.)
• Mr. PLATT said that, after Mr. Hodgson had made vari-
ous remarks at the last council in a most uncharitable way,
he concluded by saying that he would always express his sen-
timents in that council in spite of the mayor.
Mr. HODGSON—That was afterwards. (Hear.)
Mr. PLATT believed it was previous—before the mayor
had made the remark which called forth Mr. Hodgson's ire.
He (Mr. Platt) was very near saying at the time that, before
the mayor recalled his expressions, Mr. Hodgson ought to
have been called upon to retract his observations.
Mr. HARBORD said he should not take up the time of the
council on the subject then introduced, but that they were
placed in a very peculiar position, and called upon to express
their sentiments. (Hear.) lie could not forget what had
been expressed by the mayor towards the party to which he
had the honour to belong, He could not forget that the
mayor upon that occasion pre expreision to unbecoming
language towards himself, because, when he retracted, he
said he did not mean it to apply to Mr. Hodgson, but to
others. (Hear, hear.) Now, what had he (Mr, H.) said?
He had simply asked a question. He had not condemned or
reproached any one. And yet the mayor had the audacity
to say that his words were intended to apply to others who
had spoken prior to Mr. Hodgson! (Hear' and cheers.) He
was the person who had spoken prior. 13ut, further than
this, some of the constituents whom he represented, and who
had been present at the anti-corn-law meeting lately held in
the Amphitheatre, requested him to state that the mayor had
no right upon that occasion to show partiality, and that he
ought to have given an opportunity to every one to express
their sentiments pro or con. • But instead of pursuing such
a course he had acted on quite an opposite principle. It
might be an error of judgement upon his part, or lie might
have been under an impression that he was called upon to
preside over a particular party, but whatever was the cause
it ought to be explained; for he should have been no partisan,
and he should have given protectien and liberty to all who
wished to express their sentiments. (Hear, hear.) He, for
his part, as one of the representatives of North Toxteth Ward,
wished to say that some of his constituents felt aggrieved at
not having been aliowed to express their sentiments, and that
some sort of apology was expected from the mayor. (Hear.)
Mr. EvANs said the co' pail on the present occasion should
not forget that the mayor was xAnder their protection. Gentle.
men were in the habit of calling £.9x his protection ; but the
case was then reversed, and every honourable and laudable
feeling on the part of the council were sircngly appealed to
to do justice to their estimable mayor. :(80ar..) He had
beard a gentleman speaking of moral courage, Wet in
Isis
opinion that gentleman was decorating one of the worstkel-
ings of human nature with a very exalted title. If they could
get at the beam of the feeling which had prompted his
speech. against the mayor, they should give it a different
epithet from that of tooral courage. There was no morality
about it, neither was theca apy charity. (Hear.) There had
been, moreover, a violation of Addt the received compacts of
human life, that when a hasty ,expeei,,stin escaped any of
them, and that it was withdrawii„ y.r4-„s never to be
mentioned again.
Mr, Hiatuoitto,—lt is not withdrawn inthis,case. aluar,

hear.)
Mr. EVANS proceedeel tow that the pursuance 0f such a
course was calculated to subvert the principles of peaCe and
amity on earth ; but this was. a principle which formed no
rule of Mr. Hodgson's conduct. The whole tenor of that
gentleman's conduct, so far as he .(Mr. vans) saw, lied been
to set man against man in this world, and ,to prodoce dissene
sion and bad feeling. Leaving Out the meaning of his words,
there had been a wicked eloquence in the tone of his voice
which was exciting and provoking, He (11r, Ii,IVADA) should
be glad to know—he would not say on charity---fait AO what
principles of justice they. could deny the mayor a vote of
thanks for his conduct for the past twelve months? Was it
because of his having, with the aid of the assessors, given a
'decision in the registration court which had not been ques-
tioned by much higher authority than any in the council,
and, on the peher band, because an expression, which he
(Mr. Evans) could meks very great allowance for, but which
he could not justifer the mayor altogether in, bad escaped
him? Was it because he hael,heee guilty of two such insig-
nificant instances, for one of whiple be bad promptly com-
pounded, that they were to deny an act (kr justice and cour-
tesy to the mayor ? If they were all to e.voe out of this
life with having committed no greater transactionstleee these
two matters, they would be considered rather above lineeen
nature than below it—they should be something very nearly
perfect. He felt that the mayor's conduct had been correct,
that it had been temperate, that it had been moderate, and
that it had been iteflgoOoa4 altogether by a feeling of justice
and a determination to do justice, (Hear.)
Mr. RoniNsore thought the conel-irveeives justified in dif—
fering from the vote of thanks. He spoeele^ the sentiments
of thirty in the council when he said,hey tear.)
Ay,t,perdially
and generally unite in a vote of thanks. Near.)
Mr. Touern); said he could not feel juStified in jeevieg
the room without expressing his decided conviction of the
mayor's gross partiality througheet hio year of office. (Hear.)
Mr. BIRKETT said it was with pein differed from the
expression of a vote of thanks to the netiyOY, Manse what-
ever differences of opinion be might have with ;WY g,e4tkawor
he never intended to act towarija him in a peesonat manner.
He felt, however, that the couduct of the mayor " ma"
occasions had been grossly partial. (agar, hear.) Hs
was sorry to say so, but be felt that if he were to give his
vote in favour of the motion he should be confounding right
and wrong. He begged to recall the attention of the council
to the manner in which the mayor bad treated himself.
(Hear.) Lie had all along been resolved, no matter what
his feelings might he, to submit to the decision of the chair.
On the first occasion upon which he had ever addressed the
council the mayor allowed the late Mr. Currie to speak
three times. The subject was that of the schools. He (Mr.
B.) intended to have divided the council and to have stated
his reasons for not agreeing to any gentleman being elected
on the committee on the principle which the mayor stated—
namely, that the school was to be conducted as theretofore ;
but the mayor told him that he was out of order, and he sat
down. (Hear.) On another occasion when he made an
amendment on the Finance Committee proceedings, the
mayor stated that he was again out of order. (Hear.)
Previous to his having spoken, he consulted the town-clerk,
and ascertained from that gentleman that his notice was in
order. The mayor said otherwise, and treated-him very un-
handsomely. Do another occasion a statement was made in
the council relative ,to the 494 bill, which he thought it right
to answer conceiving that ,the of that hill had been
on Lord Sandua's iteemmerWation.; bit lie)l4 scarcely got
up when the mayor contradicted him the moat ek-.4 manner,
and stated what was anything but the fact respecting the oyi-
gin of the bill. He (Mr.. 13..) did not wish to use language
which was unbecoming either to himself or the council, but
he certainly desired to use the strongest terms towards the
mayor which the council would permit. for at the time be
was a young member, and felt.hurt. (Hear.) He asked two
of his friends to accompany him to the noble lord (Sandon)
and in their presence read the sentiments of the mayor to
him, as they appeared in the pages of a radical journal, and
he then asked whether the mayor or himself was right; and
he had his lordship's authority for saying that he had been
stating what was true, and that, when he was contradicted
by the mayor, thncontradiction was anything but true. On
another occasion Mr. Gladstone made a statement relative
to Mr. Blackburn. Mr. Blackburn replied, and closed his
speech by charging Mr. Gladstone with malice prepense."
(Neer.) The words had been reported in italics. From
that
,day.•to the present he (Mr. B.) had never heard the
.
mayor call on Blackburn to unsay what he did, or to
• a •
make an apology to Mr. 64,Clatone. (Hear, hear.) On a
late occasion language had been used by Mr. Sheil stronger
than he bad ever heard in the.coun4, am.llbe Mayor allowed
it. (Hear, hear.) The only gentlemanevb9 ,poke after-
wards was Mr, Hodgson. In the fiest instance Mr. Hai.-
bord asked a question; but the mayor nettled 111 r. ijOdgson,
and applied terms to him whirl ,could not be considered
other than extremely improper. (Cheers.) So satisfied was
Mr. Henry Lawrence with their impropriety, that be imme-
diately asked the mayor why he had used such
he langud
doneba s huot
If,
the mayor had not made any apologY•
he (Mr. B.) would be the last man to get up and refer to the
circumstance, because it would be unhandsome so to do.
The words of the mayor merely' were, that " if he had said
ao and so, they were not applied to Mr. Hodgson, but to the
speakers generally." (Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.")
On another occasion, at the close of a debate, Sir Joshua
Walmsley made a statement regarding him (Mr. B.) and
Mr. Holmes. He conceived that it was not common fairness
in Sir Joshua to make the statement in question, when he
had no opportunity of replying, and that it was not fair of
the mayor to interrupt him when be was going to prove that
it was anything but the fact. (Hear.) In his opinion the
mayor ought to have 410.w.e4 him to proceed ; but the con-
trary had been the cese. For these reasons he could not
conscientiously agree to the vote of thanks, because, if he
were, he should be confounding right aPAI wrong: For him-
self. he would state fearlessly, thathe had an ell
occasions,
in that room as well as out of it, paid the mayor that respect
which he considered due to his ottice, and that whatever the ;
conduct of the mayor might have been towards him, nothiog