The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1836-12-09 00:00:00

of the Council—to give them letters to deliver, which detnot give
them any extra trouble, I shalt not do so again. I not be
lectured by any member of this Council, and if repeated i shall
care very little abut it. As to the Bible, (loud cries of "No,"
"no,") I merely state that the Bible is not excluded front the
schools either north or south, but is better done than ever since
the schools came into my management. (Great uproar and
confusion.) I beg the protection of the Chair. I say that we
haVe introduced one selection into the schools, the Church of
England has introduced six. That is all I say.
Mr. Alderman Evans. As having introduced the subject, I
sin entitled to reply. I shall go into no extraneous matter, ex-
cepting into that regarding the docks. We did meet to elect
thirteen men that we could depend upon to maintain inviolable
the interests of this corporation on that committee. It was ne-
cessary we should not name any other, in order not to destroy
the hold of the Corporation on the docks. I believe we could
not have named any one of our opponents that was not com-
mitted in word and act, to the excluding the corporation from
the docks. (Hear.) That is all I have to say to that. With re-
gard to speeches out of doors, I certainly should not have no-
deed them, except they proceeded from the members of our own
body. There is the gravamen of the business ; and I could not
overlook. this ; / consider this a matter / cannot paSs over. I
shall give the gentleman whatever benefit he pleases from the
supposition that he has explained away those words: but to my
understanding, he has nut. (Cries of "hear," "not a word.")
And I will add, Sir, I will not presume to answer for the coun-
cil, it is not for an humble man like me, to cast a shield over
them and protect them ; but as 'I ion included individually, as
au individual I fling back upon the utterer of these injurious
and unwarrantable terms—l fling them buck upon hint with
all the scorn and contempt that is due to falsehood. (Hear.)
Mr. Councillor Jasi Es Her woirre immediately rose to re-
, ply, but was assailed with almost deafening reiterations of
spoke," "spoke," "spoke." Mr. Heyworth endeavoured
for some time to speak, but was unable to make his voice midi-
over a tumult which exceeded anything we ever heard in
e'any organized meeting. Finding the attempt useless, he at
' length sat down, saying, the conduct of the council was most
complimentary to them.
Mr. Councillor BOLTON immediately rose, and sacl, " As
there is no question before the council, propose that se pro-
ceed to business".
A dead silence of five or six minutes ensued, during which
time, the Mayor held a consultation with Mr. Currie, Mr. nata-
-1 bone the Town-clerk, and others. After which,
The MA TOR said, I feel very great difficulty in the situation
in which lam placed. lam sure I wish to discharge the duty
imposed upon sue, as well .as'l can. The latter part of this
• question, has certainly assumed a character it had not before,
and Mr. Alderuaau Evans made use of a word—l think " false-
hood" was stated.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.—" Yes."
The MAYOR.—And upon that one point, I think Mr. Evans
will have no objection to explain—that one point to Mr. Hey-
worth.
A silence of some moments occurred, during which time, Mr.
Alderman Evans sat perfectly still.
Mr. Councillor JA MES EYWOR TH.—Why should I explain
it. I have explained all I mean to explain.
The MA l'oll.-1 hope you will not take offence.
Mr. Councillor JAMES Herwoiern.—l have discharged my
duty.
The MAYOR.--I hope you will not be offended at me in
having consulted a friend or two in order to allow you to depart
from the general rules of the council. If you don't wish to say
anythingfurther, we can proceed.
Mr. Councillor JAMES Heywourit.—lf the council are not
convinced by what I have said, that anything I have mis-
stated in my observations has been a mistake and not a false-
hood, no possible explanation I could make would be of any
avail. I would offer no disrespect to any man. I feel that there
is a proper degree of courtesy due to every individual; and I
feel that a transgression of that rule has been most flagrantly
committed in the present instance, and an outrage made on ad
decency of language. I did not speak a falsehood; I spoke the
truth. (Mr. Heyworth again sat down amidst much confusion.)
Mr. Councillor BATHBONE.—We mast have a pledge that
this quarrel does not go out of this room. It must be settled
here. I beg to move that the Mayor be requested to require
that engagement from the parties before they leave the room.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.-1 have no pledge,—" no
oath recorded in heaven", but I have some regard for morality,
for religion, and also of the necessity and propriety of defending
myself. I have opinions which would prevent me from the line
of conduct which the proposition of Mr. Rathbone has in view.
I feel that I have a courage to do everything that is right, and I
possess feelings which I hope would prevent me from doing any-
thing that was wrong. (Much confusion.)
Mr. Councillor Motieciroer, (after a pause,) to settle this
matter I have a resolution to propose. lam not one that is sa-
tisfied with the explanation that has been given. i beg to move
this resolution "that the charges brought by Mr. Heyworth
against the Members of the Common Council of being a servile
majority, of sacrificing the Bible in the public schools, and of
coining to the Council pre-decided, are untrue." I beg to move
that Sir.
Mr. Councillor BRIG HT.—I beg to second that motion.—
Whatever distinctions may be supposed to exist out of doors,
I know none in this room. (Hear.) As the representative of
a Ward of independent burgesses, 1 feel that they are attacked
through this charge which has been brought against the Mem-
bers of the Council. I stand here as an independent man. As
I before observed distinctions may be supposed to exist out of
doors, but in this room I know none, and therefore I feel as in-
dependent as the best or the proudest of you all. (Hear, hear.)
Nor will I consent that the Ward I represent shall be insulted
by me. I have in all cases been governed by my conscience.—
If my judgment has erred my heart is right. (Hear, hear.)
In every vote I have given, I have given it conscientiously, and
as long as I stand here I trust I shall do my duty. (hear,
hear.)
Mr. Councillor JOHN SMITH.—I consider this subject ought
to drop. I beg to move that we proceed to the business of the
day.
Mr. Councillor J. N. Woon.—l beg to second that.
Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE HEYWORTH.—There has been an
amendment proposed on a motion and I wish to state my views.
I am afraid if we take that first reso'ution and adopt it in this
Council we shall act a very tyrannical part. Men have various
opinions and various shades of opinions, and if those opinions
are not to be discussed out of this room, but to be deterred
by such a vote as that, away goes "liberality" altogether. No
more liberty exists if men are to be brought before this tribunal
and there condemned as that resolution seems to imply. Then
instead of having a proper feeling towards each other we raise
ourselves to tyrants, who having got the power are determined
to exercise it with the most flagrant injustice. I shall as a pub-
lic man lament it to the last day of my life if such a vile resolu-
tion is passed. (Here the uproar was again renewed with
deafening cries of " Order,") It is "vile," because it infringes
on the choicest blessing we have—our liberty, and every
thing which trenches on our liberty is vile. Whatever it may
be, my brother has withdrawn the odious nature of the words.
(Great confusion, and cries of " No," " no tie has not.")
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—I beg to state, that "I
have explained sufficiently to every candid mind. The words
are before the public, and with my explanation of them before
you. If lam wrong let me be punished by the judgment of
the public; they are the legitimate party to judge. (Cries of
" No, no.") I have said all I wish to say, and I don't care a
rush, whether the resolution is passed or not.
Mr. Councillor Motteceom—Are not we the representatives
of the public ? (Hear.)
The MAYOR.—Whatever resolution you please to move I ant
bound to put it from -the chair.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—Certainly. You pay
me a great compliment. The whole of the prooceedings of this
day have been complimentary to use.
Mr. Councillor LAWRENCE HEY WORTII.—I trust for the sake
of decency, and justice, that the resolution will not be passed.
I advocate the amendment.
The Mayon (to Mr. James Heyworth).—l understand you
to say the whole proceedings have been complimentary: If you
think I ought not to put this resolution in the situation in which
I am, I wish you to state it. I wish you to state distinctly,
whether I ought to put this resolution ? (With great warmth.)
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.-1 have no power over
you. Neither the rules of courtesy nor the rules of this council
can require such an observation from you to me. lam much
obliged to you for it. Ido not charge any member with false-
hood; any member may be mistaken in his views, and when
you charged the universities with being "shut out from the
light of reason"—(An immediate, and indiscribable uproar
drowned the conclusion of the sentence, in which the voice of
Mr. Alderman Barclay was heard predominant, reiterating,
" Shame, shame.")
In the midst of this glorious row,
The MAYOR started up with great heat, saying, " that has
nothing to do with it—that is another matter, sir. I thought
by the observation that he has made, that he would insinuate
that I had no right to put the resolution.
Mr. Councillor JAMES HEYWORTH.—Certainly not.
The MAYOR.-1 beg your pardon, Iso understood.
A pause here ensued, and there was a loud buzzing noise, as
if every member was talking. At length
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURN rose, and order having been
somewhat restored, said, Mr. Heyworth has stated, that sub-
stantially what the report stated as his sentinteuts, are his ;
though he does not take on himself to speak to the words.
There may be a difference in the words, but he does adhere to the
substance, and he steadfastly adhers to thes!sentiments which are
there expressedas sentiments which he has expressed in this room.
I would like to ask the councillor for Everson Ward, (Mr. Jas.
Heyworth) what explanation he can give of the terms "servile
majority," as applied to this body, to prevent their beinit per-
sonally offensive to the individual members of this council ? I
wish to put it to his reflection, to his calm judgmeut, if I had
used the expression at a ward meeting, that he came here
"bound hand and foot," whether he would not think such an
observation as adddressed to himself an offensive expression,
and such as ought to be withdrawn ? •
Mr. Councillor JahrEs Heywoani.—Certainly not.
Mr. Councillor BLACKBURNE.—Then he would not think it
disrespectful
There was a short pause, and Mr. Heyworth made no reply.
Several of the members immediately exclaimed, " then there
is an end of the matter."

Mr.. Councillor JAMES HEY WOlllll--Certaillly not ; I don't
know who the members were who met at the Angel Inn.
Mr. Councillor BL ACK BURN.—Then I ask how any man can
attach an expression to a body which does not attach to an
individual ? Men don't act in bodies in that way, so as to throw
off all responsibility at all. Every man is responsible fur his
own acts. You cast a reflection on a lartze portion of the body
constituting this council. You say as much as that they are
led by the nose by some member who takes a lead amongst
them. Is that a reflection Mr. Iley worth would think justified.
If I made use of such an expression in the warmth of argu-
ment! I should feel bound to give au explanation. It is offen-
sive in its very nature. It says that one or two of those in-
dividuals are persons who do not think for themselves ; and if
anything is offensive that is offensive. I thought I would just
Put one point, whether he would strictly adhere to that. For
my own part, I shall vote for the previous question. I shall
not vote for the recording on our minutes of a direct censure
of those sentiments; •not because I approve of them—not be-
cause Ido not think them censurable. Strong language ought
to be used with regard to them, and that member would do well
to withdraw them, and put an end to the question by making
an explanation which ought to he made; but I shall vote to
proceed to business, because I think it is making the subject of
too much importance. I think it better to let the matter rest
here. I merely put it to bins again, as a matter for his con-
sideration, whether applying the term " a servile majority," is
not very offensive to every member here?
Mr. Councillor It A TIMONE rose amidst loud cries of "Spoke,
spoke." I only wanted to speak in explanation of one remark.
The Mayon.—lle has not spoken on this business.
Mr. Councillor HoPhi.-1 should be glad if the mover of the
motion would withdraw it. (Loud cries of No, no.") It is
attaching too much importance to the subject.
Mr. Councillor EsTlicoNE.—Whv,
• convivial meeting, and
I would vote for the mo-
tion if it is put. If it lied been morel}
remarks had been made in braggadocio that lam prepared, i
to
repeat this in the council," it would be
.different. But, as it s
held forth that he is prepared to beard us our own council at
sucts a meeting, these expressions should Le noticed. (Hear,
her•.r, and great confusion.)
Mr, Councillor CurratE rose, and when order had been re-
stored, said—l should feel a reluaaace to pass awe of censure
on a newspaper report, and also on another ground ; because 1
am willing to make great allowances for those persons—l speak
it without-disrespect—for those persons who unfortunately by