The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1840-02-07 00:00:00

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS,

An adjourned meeting of the town council was held on
Wednesday, to consider the bill prepared by the committee
for the affairs of the estate of the Liverpool docks, pursuant
to the resolutions of that committee, adopted by the council
at their meeting on the 2d of October last," and as a special
council upon the following subjects :-
I.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr.
Henry Lawrence :
" That the resolution of the council of the 2d October last,
so far as relates to the erection, by the dock trustees.' of ware-
houses on the dock quays, be rescinded; and that the clauses
for empowering the dock trustees to build such warehouses,
Ind all reference thereto, in the preamble of the intended
bill, be omitted."
2.—A motion, of which notice has been given by Mr. Al-
derman Booth : _

" That those recommendations of the Finance Couimittee,
on the subject of the intended warehouses on the quays of
the docks; which were adopted by the council on the Bth Of
March last, be made part of the provisions of; the: ne:.4,106.
.
act."

THE QUEEN'S MARRIAGE.
The Maxon stated that as the. Queen's mftrriage was an-
nounced in the Gazette to take place on the 10th instant, the
council would perhaps have no objection that the question of
the festivities to take place on that day should first be con-
sidered. The committee had then prepared a report, which
the town-clerk would read.
The TOWN-CLERK read the following report :
" That, in the opinion of the committee, her Majesty's
marriage would be well celebrated by the application of money
out of the surplus revenue in aid of the undermentioned pub-
lic charities—such assistance being much needed at present,
and such as would clearly operate for the public benefit of
the inhabitants.
" That, with this impression, the committee submit the
following recommendation, viz.:—
" That the mayor, aldermen, and hurgesSes, by the coun-
cil, should grant £5OO to the Infirmary and the Northern
and Southern Hospitals, the Dispensaries, and the Provident
District Society ; and, in the event of the public subscribing
to the same charities not less than £2OOO, the donation of
the corporation he augmented to £looo—the whole amount
from the corporation and the public being to be divided as
follows
" The Infirmary and Northern HOSpitals, one-third ; the
Dispensaries, one-third ; and the District Provident Society,
one-third ; and the subscription being to be closed by the
meeting of the council in April.
44 That, in addition, the committee would recommend that
the council should direct application to. be made to the com-
mittees of the Royal Institution and Botanic Gardens, that
these institutions may be open to the public on the auspicious
day ; that the bells should he rung; guns fired ; And colours
hoisted on the public buildings, and on the vessels of all
nations in our docks and river—to effect Which, the neces-
sary application to parties, and other measures, will have to
be directed ; and that the royal arms should in the evening
of the day be put up, illuminated, over the entrance to the
Town-ball.

" That the committee further recommend, that as the
mayor has most liberally determined to give a ball in the
evening to upwards of 1500 persons—a measure calculated
not only to give satisfaction to the parties invited, but to
afford business and employment to a portion of the indus-
trious classes—his worship, in addition to his ordinary may-
oralty provision, have the disposal, for the occasion, of wine
to be provided by the corporation.
" That it be further recommended, that addresses to the
Queen and Prince Albert, from the mayor, aldermen, and
burgesses, under the common seal, should be presented;
and that thel mayor should be requested, at the proper time,
to proceed to London on the occasion, accompanied by two
members of the council to be appointed by them." •
Mr. CURRIE moved the adoption of the report.
Mr. H. HOLMES seconded the motion.

Mr. Alderman 1' ROME thought that, on such an occasion
as the Queen's marriage, a sum (say of £500) ought to be
granted to the mayor, to distribute in whatever way he
should think fit—amongst others, to entertain the prisoners
in the borough gaol, and the inmates of the workhouse. By
doing so they should raise the character of the mayor, and
by that means serve themselves. If the sum of 1:500 were
thought too much, he should hve no objection to lower the
sum to £3OO. Mr. Preme concluded by moving, as an ad-
dition to the report, that the sum of £3OO he granted to the
mayor. to be disposed of at his discretion.
Mr. LOGLAN seconded the motion. He should like to
see the day a day of genuine festivity amongst the lower
classes.
Mr. ROBINSON was not satisfied with the amount pro-
posed to be given, and proposed that £l5OO should :be given
to the charities, the funds of which, particularly those of the
Infirmary, were in a very lamentable state.
.Mr. ISAAC HOLMES observed that, if the £5OO were
granted, with an understanding that the mayor would dis-
pose of the surplus to the public charities, that would obviate
all objection, at least on his part.
Mr.. BOLTON agreed in thinking that the prisoners in the
borough gaol and the inmates of the workhouse should be
regaled, and the entertainment might also be extended to the
children iii the coiporation schools. One hundred pounds,
however, would be sufficient to do all that was necessary.
The workhouse, it ought to be remembered, was the parish
business. _

Mr. D. HODGSON thought that, by entertaining the pri-
soners, those unfortunate persons were induced to look upon
it as a right on other occasions, instead of considering the
entertainment as springing from a feeling of commiseration
for their situation. He referred more particularly to the
criminal part of the inmates of the gaol.
Mr. CURRIE opposed the amendment of Mr. Freme, and
said, what was recommended by the report was sufficient for
the occasion, although he was as anxious as any one that the
occasion should be commemorated in a manner worthy of the
town. As far as a small sum for the regaling of the paupers
and the prisoners in the borough gaol, he thought that the
committee would not object to go. The sum of £5OO had
been termed paltry bs Mr. Robinson ; but the council were
asked to say, that if the public would come forward, they '
(the council) would subscribe an additional £5OO. This he
considered an excellent method for inducing those to sub-
scribe who would otherwise have kept their money in their
pockets. A committee would be appointed to go round to
those wealthy persons whose names did not figure in the lists
or subscribers to the public charities (of whom there were
many) and they would be ashamed to hold•back. If £3OOO
were obtained, that would be a very handsome sum.
Mr. liven HOUNBY, should certainly oppose the amend-
ments both of :Sir. Freme and Mr. Robinson. They had
offered a very handsome sum to the charities, whilst they
bad, at the same time, been actuated with a .:due regard to.
economy. He bad no objection to the . prisoners in the
borough gaol and the inmates of.the workhouse being enter-
tained; but it would be perfect insanity to vote £5OO
that purpose. Forty pounds. *Mild be quite suffiCitnit fni
that, and as Mr. Freme had nentioned no other objects,
why should the council make the extravagant grant proposed ?
Mr. Alderman Sum admired the spirit of economy which
pervaded the speech of Mr. Currie. From that he augured
well for the future management of the Finance Committee.
He thought, however, that the proposal of Mr. Freme was
a judicious one, and he knew of no man at whose disposal
he would more willingly place a sum of money than the
mayor.
Mr. Alderman EVANS participated in much of the satis-
faction of Mr. Sheil at the speech of Mr. Currie, and greatly.
regretted that such wholesome admonitions, contained in so
few words, came so seldom from the quarter where they
ought to prevail, which was the pulpit. He hoped that these
remarks would go forth, in order that the rich might be
taught to know that their conduct was not unobserved.
There were in Liverpool many persons with ten, twenty,
thirty, and forty thousand a year, who considered that they
had done their duty when they put down a bookkeeper's
guinea. He had heard one of those Millionaires declare, with
great pride and indignation, that certain articles in the papers,
which he thought directed at him, were altogether unjust
and unfounded; for he subscribed to every charity in Liver-
pool. He (Mr. Evans) was, in consequence of that state-
ment, induced to look through the lists; and found that be
(the person referred to) subscribed to many, though not all
the charities •, but in scarcely any instance did his subscrip-
tion exceed that of a man who had but a few himdreds 'to
provide for his family and his subsCriptions to the public
charities. He quite agreed with Mr. Currie in thinking that
before they contributed to the enjoyments of those who were
confined in the Borough Gaol, they ought to regard those
who were nobly contending, .by means of their own honest
industry, against the casualties and hardships of life, who'
were buried in cellars and lay upon straw, and who yet had
resisted temptation, and had not applied to charities. To
neglect these for the purpose of entertaining the inniates of
a gaol, was to do a very wrong thing. They (the prisoners)
ought to know no alleviation of their punishment. It ought
to be to them an additional one to know that whilst others
were rejoicing, they, through their crimes, were being kept
in grief and seclusion. With regard to the debtors, he had
bad some little experience, and he was of opinion that those
who found their way into gaol on account of debt, arrived
there, in nine cases out of ten, through their own extrava-
gance and want of principle. He was quite content with the
report, and hoped that no addition would be inade to it.
Mr. GLADSTONE could not concur with what had fallen
from Mr. Currie and Mr. Evans with respect to persons not
co ..ing forward as they ought to have done. He mentioned
it as a fact not generally known, that the charitable institu-
tions in Liverpool were all supported by a number of persons
under two thousand. He thought that the council should
not bargain with the public, but take higher ground, and at
once vote £l3OO, leaving the public to do their duty. Surely,
if the £looo:were needed 'by the charities in the event of the
public subscribing £2OOO, it would be more needed if that
sum were not subscribed; and-it would be a more honoura-
ble course to give the £lOOO without any condition.
Mr. BUSHELL, with regret, differed from his friend Mr.
Gladstone. Never, in his opinion, was an arrangement
&nor, nict.iv to give sattsfsAion to the town at large than the
Peop.).4ed in toe report. If that condition had not been
inserted, the .t 3001) would not have been named at all; for,
5 '0 as con Idered by tbe committee as name as could be
•.s 1i : in tae hope that the charities would mate-
they slid, " Let us propose an Idditioual.f.:soo,
It tie panne wall subscribe a certain suni. ' He was not
prep ire to grant the proposed sum to the mayor.
Mr JORDANperfectlyasileed with every word that hadfallen from Mr. Unshell. Tnere were many people whom
nothing but a sense of public shame would drive to put their
hands into their pockets.
Mr. RATIIDONE thought that the report contained by far
been
the best plan which could have devised to raise money
at this time. There were in the town rich men, and women
too, who had given largely to tile public charities and whose
wealth no one begrudged; but there were also' rich men
and whose money he would get
whose wealth was begrudged,
honestly if he could, but if he could
he would get it ,dishonestly, so that he could keep
from them,
not so
hi
sg
neckget
it,
from the halter.—(Laughter.)
Mr. MiLLott thought the plan was a good one to get £2OOO,
for the charities, and he proposed that subscriptions should
begin in that rooro.
Mr. Cooeex agreed with Mr. Gladstone that the corpora-
tion should boldly conic forward with a aura of money, with-
out any condition. Ile also liked the proposition of the last
speaker. The council could be very liberal with the public
money ; let the public see whether they could be liberal with
their own money. He should be very glad to put down his
name as a subscriber.
Mr. PLATT thought that many of the persons who did not
now subscribe to the charities would do so if called upon.
The TOWN-CLERK stated that he had thrown the amend.
ment of Mr. Freme into the following shape, in order that
the provisions of the municipal act might be complied with :
" That, taking into consideration the approaching marriage
of the Queen, and the calls to which, therefore, the Mayor
will be subject, beyond the expense already entered into by
him for that occasion, the sum of three hundred pounds be
placed at his worship's disposal, in addition to the ordinary
mayoralty provision."

- . .
The report, to which the above was added, was then con-
Orm ed.
TAE NEW DOCK BILL—WARE,
°USES ON TUE DOCK QUAYS.
The MAYOR having called
Mr. Alderman EVANS said IgantMr. Evans,
he rose, and be trusted
for the last time, to move the adoptiondof the bill prepared
by the Dock Committee, and which been, submitted to
the approbation of the council. The m'otic which he should
make was not exactly in accordance with his opinion,
was but in defereuce to the opinion which hge. believeds_
ex-
pressed by the council at their last meeting. The resolution
was as follows :
"That the bill now_ submitted by the Dock Commit to
the council, as trustees for the docks, for the
of
new dock, to the west of the Salthouse Dock, with Ware.
houses on the quays ; and for the erection Of warehouses on
the west quay of the Prince's Dock ; and for the management
of such warehouses,. and for improvements in the government
and regulation of the docks, be adopted, pursuantto the re-
gulation of the council of the 2d of October last, `lntbient tiv

the separate consideration, by the council, of each clause of
the bill ; and that the council do forthwith proceed to the
consideration thereof accordingly."
He remained of opinion that there was no good and sufficient
reason for the withdrawal of the sanction of the council to
the principles which were contained in that bill. They, no
doubt, had had a new election, and were now proceeding
with new members ; but he could not take that as any more
sufficient reason.

Mr. HODGSON rose to order. He would put. it to the
Mayor whether this was not an adjourned debate. If this
were the case, Mr. Evans, of course, was out of order, as he
-had already spoken.
The MAYOR. said he had previously consulted with the
Town-clerk-on-the point raised by Mr. HOdgsbn, arid he (the
Town-clerk) was of opinion that it would be perfectly right
in him (the Mayor) to. call upon Mr... Evans to open the
debate.

Mr.. Alderman EVANS then proceeded.. He said that the
fact of some new member having entered that chamber was
not a much more suffiCient reason for reversing the solemn
resolutions of 'the council than the return of a score of new
members, which occasionally happened (hiring a session of
parliament, would be for, reversing the resolution,s of the
House• of Commons. The resolution of the 2d October had
been affirmed by a majority, and he could not suppose that
the advent of the new members was to dissolve all the ties
and resolutions of that council. He had been so deeply im-
pressed with the idea that the council would not swerve from

its usual and proper course, and on the last occasion he de-
clined going into the merits of the case. The bare idea of
the reversal of the resolutions, and the negativing of the bill
which was now before.them, made him shudder, not so much
for the pecuniary loss which would continue to be inflicted
on the commerce of Liverpool, as for the loss of character
and moral influence which municipal government, the coun-
try's best hope, could not fail to sustain. He could not allow
himself to believe, however, that that council, on the only
occasion where its public virtue had been tried against private
interests, would be found wanting. He could not think
that corporation, the first and greatest offspring of reform,
would be the first to offer obstruction to improvement. He
could not believe that to that tide of improvement which
was rushing past them in every direction, they would say,
".Thus far shalt thou go-and no farther." He conceived
that to refuse dock warehouses was to commit some moral
offence, similar to that of the ignOrant and infatuated
weavers and spinners, who destroyed the machinery which
so soon afterwards increased the employment which they
were apprehensive it would Alestroy. He considered that
the same cause of overwhelming advantage to the public
that resulted to them from the superiority of railroads over
common roads, and commanded their creation, held in the case
of dock warehouses as compared with the ordinary warehouses.
And, moreover, on this case, their formation was attended
with ' this additional advantage, that. they (the council)
usurped on no man's land, but_ made use of that which was
their own ; and they could build warehouses at such a cost
that no possible loss could be involved by their erection, but
they would yield any return, almost any return, that the
public might choose to require from them, and all without
infringing on the rights, and facilities, and cheapness which,
in other respects, they would give, and which they (the
council) well knew were of the utmost importance to mer-
chants. As long as space-, time, and expense were admitted
to be of the most. important consideration to commerce, he
conceived that nobody could hesitate in acknowledging the
great superiority of warehouses at hand, and in combination
with shipping, to those which were at a distance. That
council, he looked on it, incurred a most awful responsibility
in rejecting the improvements now offered by the Dock
Committee. They would unquestionably have the mortifi-
cation to see those piles of warehouses which were rejected
springing up around other docks. Could it be believed,
when it was very well known and ascertained, that they
(the merchants) would not use every means in their power

to obtain them elsewhere? Here would be not only a loss
of moral character and of moral influence, but they would
have to relinquish the dock dues, and • there would be a
loss both public and private. What a wretched remnant
that bill would appear to be, when gutted of its most
important provisions ! If it went before a committee of the
House of Commons in that shape, the clauses expunged here
would be restored. there, by others divesting the corporation
of all cantroul over the dock trustees. If, instead of going
with the upright character and moral strength with which
the dock trustees could go to parliament with the whole bill
in their hands, they (the council) were to go there with any-

•
thing which confessedly relinquished the consideration of
the interests of commerce, and denied to the public those
benefits which were of incalculable advantage, they would go
with a certainty of losing it. He would, for the present,
discard all particular motives in the various assertions, and
the false inferences drawn upon them, which had been urged
against dock warehouses. If there had been no private ware-
houses, could it have entered into the head of any mortal
man to bdild them anywhere except upon the dock quays ?
Was it necessary, after that, to go into the mawkish details
and arguments which were put forth, from either mistaken
or interested motives, under the pretence of showing that the
public interest could not really be benefitted by dock ware-

houses ? (Hear, liear, hear.) 'Why, if the warellouse owners
would take the straightforward and manly course, they would
discard all this contemptible skirmishing. Let them come
forward and try the issue of their right ; let them make out a
case, if they could, to prove that the commerce of the port
should for ever be denied the advantage of dock warehouses
—to show that whatever may be the loss of time and injury
to ships and merchants' capital which may arise from the
perpetuation of this bad system, still that the commerce of
Liverpool is to continue to endure it for all time. If they
could make out a case of that sort, it remained for those who
suffered to devise mearo for their emancipation. Now, he had
heard the word monopoly bandied about. What did it aim
at ? Monopoly was generally understood to be a raising of
prices by individuals who had exclusive privileges, for the
purpose, in fact, of robbing others. But what was the cry
against them (the dock trust or council) in this instance?
Why, that they were going to lower prices. That was the
cry of the warehouse-owners. They (the Dock Committee)
could afford to charge double the ordinary rate for their
warehouses ; and if restraint were needed, it was in the upper
movement, not in the lower one. Their monopoly would be
one of advantage—one caused by location, and the public
would derive the whole benefit. It was extraordinary how-
_

much might be said on a subject of this sort in refutation of
what had been ten times refuted before ; but he apprehended
that if any of the cobwebs which had been spun before, and
brushed away, were replaced again, the gentlemen who would
follow him in the discussion would not allow them to remain,
or, if it happened that any escaped their observation, he be-
lieved thathe should he able to dispose of them in the last
resort. It had been often said that 20 or 30 years ago it
would have been quite proper to have the warehouses. But
who would have opposed them ? Why, the identical interest
that Opposed them now, and which would equally oppose
them a hundredyears hence. Liverpool was yet in its course,
and it had not' arri,ved.at 'Anything like its midway advance-
ment. lt bad such wonderful advantages that it was like a
good soil—it required attention to its culture in proportion
to its value. But LiverpOOl had its competitors, and it
could not bear to be weighted without its progress being
impeded more or less, in proportion to the obstruction
placed in its way. Because Liverpool had gone on advan-

Zing in absolute defiande of all advantages of this kind, that

was no argument that now,, when a better mode of working
sea-ports had been arrived at, she should not adopt it, and
advance with greatly-accelerated speed in future. Amongst
the contradictions and weak trash which it had been his lot
to read,—for he declared that, having nothing but a single-
ness of purpose in his object, if he had met with anything to
convince him he would have dropped it—he had met with
nothing that was worth one straw in opposition to ware-
houses. (Hear.) All the great leading physical and moral
elements—time, distance, and
,expense—were in favour
of the scheme. It was no use going into minor details till
logic had proved that these were elements which did not enter
into commercial prosperity. He had heard about transit-
sheds, the cost of which would be about one-third that of the
warehouses—which it was intended should pay nothing, and
which, as every body thought, would answer very little to the
purpose. Amongst other of the loose and contradictory as-
sertions ivhich he had happened to read in one of the fugitive
productions on this subject, was an assertion that seemed to
strike a very clever friend of his more than it struck him—
namely, that the warehouses of Liverpool had contributed to
its prosperity, never recollecting that it was commerce that
created warehouses, and not warehouses that created com-

coerce.—They.had had it urged, and urged too in an almost
slanderous manner, that as the Dock Committee were not

perSonally interested in the matter, they could not act hon..
estly in the administration of the dock trust. (No. no,) Was
there ever such an odious principle as that laid down ? He
envied not the man who entertained such opinions'. If such
persons could become an inmate of his breast, they would find
that he laboured under such a sense of responsibilty which
they could never feel.
Mr. BOLTON seconded the motion. He said that there were
these applications to parliament for the power of erecting
docks on the river Mersey, and every one of the plans em-
braced warehouses in connexion with the docks. There could
not he a more conclusive proof of the necessity of warehouses
adjoining the docks, and any committee of the House of
Colb mons, impartially constituted would so think. The effect
of dock warehouses would be to improve the value of pro-
perty in the centre of the town and he had not the smallest
doubt, that the warehouses in Hanover-street and. Wapping
would become more valuable when the proposed new dock
was completed. The general property of the town would also
increase ; and the advantages would extend to Lodge-lane
and Spekelands.
Mr. Alderman EARLE—That is a good one, however.
Mr. H. LAWRENCE withdrew his motion in favor of that of
Mr. Booth, reserving to himself the right of bringing his own
forward, in case that of the other gentleman was lost.
Mr. Alderman Bovril then proposed his amendment, ob-
serving that the council had, in his opinion, as much right to
interfere with the decision of October last, as it had to inter-
fere with and negative that of March. He called upon the
Town clerk to read the second report of the Finance Com-
mittee, on docks and dock warehouses, which was received
and approved of by the council of the Bth of March. That
having been done, Mr. Booth moved his amendment, a copy
of which is inserted above. He was of opinion that transit
sheds and-cranes would afford-adequate. accommodation, en-.
sure facility and despatch, and enable the docks to do at
least double the duty now performed by them.
Mr. Alderman EARLE seconded the amendment. He said
that Mr. Evans was extremely fond of using harsh terms,
such as mawkish language, trash, &c. They were all fools
on the opposite side, and he (Mr. Evans) was an exceediugly
clever man.
Mr. EVANS.—I am sure I only followed your example.
(Laughter.)
Mr. EARLE.—AIIow me to say that he has not. He has
written on the subject, and I have not; and I must say that
-he has written some trash, too, if he will allow me to say so.
It was an extraordinary doctrine to hold out that the new
shouldbee::eatlffiyrmcoincide f withthey
the opinions
members
previouslyenterwindethhahtacdouncil
(the new members) did not like anything that had passed,
had not they a right to exercise their own judgment, or were
of Mr. Evans, that ware-
houses and nothing else would do? As to the spinners, the
they to be bound to the ipso davit
weavers, and railroads, those were no parallel cases. Rail-
ways were undertaken by private individuals; but here was
a great trust, with the public money at their disposal, not
caring whether they expended one hundred thousand or two
hundred thousand pounds, nor whether they realised one or
twd per cent.
Mr. EVA:Ns and Mr. BARCLAY both rose to order.
Mr. EARLE—I can answer you, Mr. Barclay, and Mr.
Evans too.
Mr. BARCLAY protested against the broad charge brought
against the Dock Committee by Mr. Earle.
The MAYOR advised Mr. Earle to keep as close to the
subject as he could;
fine speake
Mr. EARLE—He was not going to quarrel with Mr. Bar-
clay, who was a very
(Laughter.) They would -Al r,.• I(Mr. Earle) in
that. (Laughter.) Ile was a and let him have his turn.
agreeht" him
r 'and had a
large private interest, Which he would
3 W neb
defend 'ut if it was
absolutely necessary for the public"; his • tere•it
should suffer, it should suffer • h
goodut he ldtnaott
have
interest
suf-
fer on the mere assertion of Mr. Evans. lie denieladvtehle cor-
rectness of th., statement made by the alderman at the meet-
ing of Saturday, with respect to the value of the warehouse
property in Liverpool. He had yielded then to Mr. Evans
because he thought that a person Correcting' hat be termed
a mis-statement would take care to be correct ; but be had
since ascertained that the original estimate was very nearly,
if not quite • eorrect. In 1837, the warehouse property was
rated at £152,411 ; that would show a value . o • t about three
millions, which was more than Mr. Evans's estimate, at any
rate. ut a person who was as capable of judging as Mr.
Evans, had estimated that the present value was about four
a rental of £250,000 at six
millions,. and that it would yield
per cent., a higher return than some warehouse
_property
vive; he had some that did not pay so much. The same
-person had stated ihat there were mortgages on warehouse
property to the extent of £2,400,000. He bad never said

that the Dock Committee had interested motives, and that
they were devoid of honesty ; but he contended that the
strongest inducement for persons to exercise their talent, in-
genuity, and attention, was to have a pecuniary interest
themselves ; and he believed that if the docks were et to
private interests, the town and trade would get on a great
deal quicker and better. (Hear, hear.) This was the very
essence of things in London. Mr. Earle theiftuoted from a
newspaper a speech of Mr. Currie on this subject, delivered
in moving the adoption of the report of the Finance Commit-
tee, and alluded to that gentleman's change of opinion.
Mr. H. Noel' supported the original motion. He repeated
the statement made by Mr. Evans on Saturday, relative to
the value of warehouse property, which he estimated to be
about one million and
:three quarters.
Mr. Alderman BENN said it was the practice, in former
days, for the merchants to have their counting-houses con-
tiguous to their private dwellings. In consequence-of this
we found innumerable warehouses in Henry-street, Duke-
,street, and other situations extremely inconsistent with the
convenience of trade: Merchants had removed to their coun--
ley houses, and would also remove their warehohses to the
neighbourhood of the Exchange, but finding-that they-could
not, they called upon the public to cart goods to their ware-
houses. Now, this, in the present day, was extremely uh-
reasonable. A new race of merchants had risen up : they.
had come here from London and various places abroad, and
when they saw the situation of the present warehouses, they
said, "We have no interest in them ; we expect you to find
us with warehouses upon the dock quays where we can con-
veniently transact our business." They naturally pointed to
the large vacant plot of ground on the west side of Salthouse
• Dock, and said, " here you have an opportunity of building
warehouses upon the same plan as the dock warehouses in
London and other places, which are found to work to great
advantage." And this appeared to he very reasonable, be-
cause these parties found they could not pursue their business
in Liverpool with the same facilities as in London without
some such exertions. If they placed goods in a Liverpool
warehouse, the buyers from London and the manufacturing
districts would not purchase them, because they had no re-
liance upon the mode of warehousing. By the present, if a
shipment of goods were damaged it was not fairly reported to
the buyers, because the only parties employed to examine and
sample them were the servants of the owners of the goods.
The consequence was that by these goods, which when sold
by auction, were required to be taken with •all faults, were
found by the buyer, on going into the warehouse to take
them away, not to have been fairly sampled—that the
injured portion .had not been introduced into the sample
—and that there was great injustice in the mode of sam-
pling. The buyers had no redress ; consequently they—
particularly buyers for export and drysalters—had become so
disgusted with the present system of things, that they had
ceased to buy in Liverpool. In London the dock companies
examined the goods in the warehouses ; they searched out
!samples to the brokers ; when the goods had been so sampled,
the weight of them was 'ascertained, and the companies held
themselves liable for their delivery. But in Liverpool there
were innumerable instances of pilferage to a large extent ; and
he believed, Mr. Sands would say, that indigo was often
stolen. He himself (Mr. Benn) only a few days ago, was
called upon to pay duty upon a cask of coffee he had imported,
which, when taken from the warehouse, was found to be
nearly empty—for the coffee thus pilfered from the warehouse
he had to pay the duty, although the sale had been made two
or three years ago. There was a petition against the mea-
sure from a large number of porters, carters, and others,
whose occupation it was said would be gone if this proposi-
tion were adopted ; and it would; if the erection of the ware-
houses would not bring that large increase of trade which
they must necessarily do. There must be at least as many,
or more men employed in the examination and weighing of
the goods lodged in the warehouses as at present, and, if
there should be a diminution in the number of horses em-
ployed, he considered that would be a national good. The
carters themselves, if need be, must find occupation in some
other way. (Hear, hear.) Another point was, that the mer-
chants who came here to settle—foreigners as well as En-
glishmen—come for the purpose of profitably transacting
their business, they wished to have an opportunity of bring-
ing back to Liverpool returns for the goods they exported
from Liverpool; but, as matters now stood, a large portion
of those returns went either to the continent or to London.
Now those returns should be invited to come here, and he
believed they would, provided there was the means of placing
them where they would enjoy the- confidence of buyers,
and In which there would be no difficulty in selling them.
This branch of commerce would certainly then be very
large. With regard to wine.( and spirits, it must be
-obvious that vaults, possessing the greatest possible security,
were much wanted in this town. Wines, in particular, under
the present system, were continually being opened andcon-
sumed by persons who frequent the bonding warehouses—
for the bonding warehouses were theleast secure in the town.
Now, it was .he duty of the council and of the Dock Com-
mittee to endeavour to lessen the disadvantage under which
the town laboured in this respect. The Dock Committee
had considered the matter in every point of view, and they
were decidedly of oainion, that .without these warehouses
they could not afford the security and the facilities which the
public asked for, Be it remembered, there was such a port
in the kingdpini is which the making- of docks and the build-
ing of warehouses did not invariably accompany one another,
no matter what the price of land might be. As to the ex-
pense in this case, he believed the returns from making a
dock, without warehouses, on the west side of Salthouse
Dock, would be exceedingly small, but with the addition of
warehouses it would return about £8 per cent. upon the out-
lay, including the charge for the laud. As to transit sheds
he granted some slight advant age might be derived from them,
as they might enable a ship to work one or two .hourelater
in the evening, but what followed? Why, if goods were
landed in the evening, they must be removed the following
morning, before the vessel could recommence, consequently,
transit sheds would do no good whatever. The great objec-
tion to these sheds was, that you would still, be under the ob-
ligation of removing the goods
.to a distant warehouse whieb
could not he done during rain, consequently the ship inns;
necessarily be detained until the goods could be-remov..ed.
The great evils of exposure to the weather and pilferage would
remain ; what good therefore was to result from transit sheds
he was unable to. perceive. Under _these eircumstances . he.
did not see that anything had been suested to render un
necessary the course proposed by the Dock Committee, and
he earnestly trusted the decision of the council would be in
favour of it.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said that a close and impartial conside-
ration of this important question in all its bearings arid rami-
fications, since it was last fully discussed in that council
chamber, had not, in the slightest degree, wrought any change
in his mind as to the inexpediency, the, impolicy, and the
injustice of erecting these warehouses. (Hear, hear.) He
still retained the opinion that to delegate to the dock trustees,
as a public body, having *individually no special interest. at
stake, and, consequently, no personal liability, to incur, the
power of bringing the public purse to bear upon private
capital was to institute a monopoly of a most dangerous de-
scription—a monopoly which must have a direct tendency in
its results seriously to injure and depreciate a large and
valuable- property in the town. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Bolton
and Mr. Holt had told them that private interests ought to
give way to public good. He (Mr. S.) was ready to admit
the truth and soundness of this position to the very utmost
extent; but, he had yet to learn by what twisting of argu-
ment, by what distortion of reasoning. it could be made to
appear that the sacrifice of four millions of rateable property
in the town of Liverpool would he of public advantage.
(Hear, hear.) He would acknowledge himself second to none,
either in that room or out of it, in feelings of zeal and anxiety
to promote the cemmercial prosperity of this great community.
But he contended that this favourite project, this ill-judged
scheme of the Dock Committee, was not at all calculated to
produce any beneficial result—on the contrary, he felt tho-
roughly convinced that if they permitted this measure to he
carried into effect, the only harvest they would reap for their
pains would be bitterness of feeling, and grievous disappoint-
ment—bitterness of feeling on the part of those whose pro-
perty they had been instrumentalin destroying, and grievous
disappointment to themselves when they discover, but too
late, that the revenues accruing from their experiment would
not pay even the common interest of their outlay. These
were his honest and 'conscientious opinions, and he would act
up to the• spirit of them by voting against the motion of Mr.
'Alderman Evans.
Mr. SANDBACH rose, as a merchant and a shipowner most
anxious to have warehouses upon the dock quays, to oppose
the bill recommended by Mr. Evans. If the proposed ware-
houses were erected and worked by the Dock Committee,
they would be in the position of having warehouses in the
very best situation. but under the worst management in the
town, which he insisted must necessarily be the case under
the inanagenient of .the Dock Committee. He meant no
reflection upon the capabilities or the integrity of the gen-
tlemen composing that committee, but the fact must be so
from the nature of the case. They had their, own private
interests to attend to, they had their own partiCular interests
to protect ; and when a large body of men were associated for
the promotion of that in which they had no interest—the
-responsibility being oonsequeetly divided, however well cal-
culated they might be to make general reeuletions, experi-
ence proved that they were not efficient in detail.. (Hear.)
Indeed it had been admitted to-day, that the docks might be
made much more useful than they were, and that a much larger
number of ships might discharge at the same time under a
better system. (No, no.) He would prove it. More ves-
sels used to be in the docks two years ago than there were
now, and he was a member of the Shipowners' Association,
which year after year had been in the habit of memorializing
the Dock Committee to erect additional cranes and throw
off the vie inertia. that always belonged to such a hotly; No
cranes were erected for years, and when the committee did
move, they did not erect them to the extent they might and
ought to have done. He knew that a ship would frequently
wait two or three days in order to get a position under a crane,
which proved there were not sufficient ; and only yesterday
he was near one which broke for want of strength. These
circumstances, he considered, established his position, that
the Dock Committee could not work the Docks with the same
advantage to the public as individuals might. The reason
why warehouses had not hitherto been erected upon the dock
quays to meet the exigencies of the case. should be borne in
mind ; it was because the corporation would not permit them
to be erected—because they would not either sell or lease
their land for such a purpose. lithat refusal were now with.,
drawn, and. the laud could be had, there was quite enough of
private enterprise and capital to build warehouses in the situa-
tions where they would best pay. It appeared to him that this
was a case, of all others, in which the principle of supply and
demand was applicable ; that if warehouses were demanded,
you would have them built to the extent and Of the kind that

was wanted, and no further, thereby meeting fairly the oh

jections of the warehouse-owners. As to profit, his opinion
was, that the dock estate would derive more profit from leas-
ing the land to build warehouses upon, than by working the
warehouses themselves : besides, it was a fact worth bearing
in mind, although it had not yet been alluded to, that this
plan of the Dock Committee, of erecting warehouses, bad
not been approved of by any one of the public associations
in Liverpool, although it was well known that many mercan-
tile men desired warehouses there, but, on the contrary, se--
veral of these associations had memorialised against them.

Another point he would press upon Mr. Evans, namely, that
he could not carry this bill through parliament without meet
ing with very strong opposition—an opposition involving
great expense, both to the Corporation and the individuals
disapproving of the project. Why should all that money be
wasted ? With regard to transit sheds, he admitted they
would not be so useful or desirable as warehouses ; hut, ne-
vertheless, he would accept them as being preferable to ware-
houses under Mr. Evans' bill, and as a step to warehouses
under a better system of management. There are many gen-
tlemen in the Council old enough to remember what to him
was matter of history—an attempt to separate the Dock
Estate and the Corporation That was a great struggle, and
it ended in the present constitution of the Dock Estate.
What position would the Dunk Committee be' in when they
appeared befote parliament, opposed by the ship-owners, and
merchants, 'and warehouse-owners, to resist an. attempt to'
separate the two estates? It seemed to him worth pausing
a little, to consider this point before they went any further.
In conclusion, he should most strenuously oppose the mo-
tion, and support the ainendinent, althoUgh he would rather
have warehouses on the dock quays. -
Mr. ROBINSON, though he had no private interests to pro-
-mote,.Should vote for the amendment. He had long been
convinced 'of the inconvenience endured by shipowners, in'
-the discharge of the vessels upon the' quays; and when the
if erected,
brought him to a different
subject first broached, he thought warehouses were very
desirable, but further reflection.
Incase continuance of orfeheoaossteesly and
an
n conclusion.
be choked up with produce, and
would, in all probability,
accumulation
accommodation would still be wanting. He found this fact
fully proved in the evidence given before the Finance Corn-I.
tuittee, by Mr. Tyrer and Mr. Clint. Ha had read over the
of of
arrivals,a
whole of the evidence, and it clearly proved that, notwith-
standing what might be said of the superior cheapness of
London over Liverpool, with all its present taxes, the balance,
of cheapness in removing produce' was in favour of this pprt.
In the cases of Messrs. Taylor; Potter; ea& Co:, be found 0

comparison between London and Liverpool. In :Bengal
sugar the expenses of lauding' in• London was stated--at
per cwt. less than in Liverpool, whilst for loading Mauritius
sugar in Liverpool the expense was about Id per cwt. less in
London. He had.known all instance of a ship arriving at
Liverpool from Calcutta, the expenses were £l9 more than
in London. But nn the other hand he had an instance him-,
self of a vessel of 300 tons from the West Indies going to
London, the expenses of which, in dock rates and other
charges, amounted to £B3 -18 s 2d; but in Liverpool, where

the expenses were greater in consequence of 'the higher
rates, the charges for that vessel 'of 300 -tons were
only zC7S 5s 7d, making a difference in favour of ,Liver-
pool of £l. Upon 'the- cargo 'of sugar to which' heliad
alluded, lie found the *hole difference-of expense in favour
of Liverpool was about £l4 , 16s. Then there would
be a new risk created by the erection of warehouses.
upon the dock quays.- The insUrance'upon a -vessel 44e.,
nerally terminated when a -vessel, we*
,into. dock;
'would say he should be borne out in stating that the owners
never dreamed of renewing an insurance iiporitt vesspl'vrkilst
she was in dock. :But if yon brought warebortseitcitthetharr,
gin. of the dock you increased the risk of the vessel. He
would remind the council that there were already warehouse;
upon the King's Dock quay, in the occupation of Mr. Mont-
gomery, and he had himself landed a cargo of produce in
them. There were, at this moment, only three of them that
were half full; yet they were close to the margin of the dock,
and there were three others nearly in the same situation ! As
to the insurance of vessels coming into dock, it would be 2s.
or 2s. 6d. per cent. upon the value—thus creating an addi-
tional charge of £10; in this respect, therefore, the proposed
act would be oppressive and tyrannical towards the ship-
owner. Mr. Robinson then referred to reports from Mr.
Okill, clerk to the committees, and Mr. Franklin, the sur-
veyor, to the effect that there had been no applications for
land on which to erect warehouses for some years, to prove
that the present accommodation was sufficient without addi-
tional erections ; and to Mr. Aikin's evidence, to show that
most of the goods in the warehouses upon the dock quays
would have to be soon removed, or be subjected to an addi-
tional rent from the time they had been imported.

. -
Mr. EVANS said there was no provision of this sort in the
bill, and that Mr. Robinson was arguing upon. imaginary
things.
Mr. ROBINSON said he was en:dein-owing to show, 'from
the evidence before-the Watch-Committee,:that there was no
necessity for these warehonses, and to lay his conclusion' be-
fore the council. He should now conclude, hoWever, by ex-
pressing his intention to vote for the amendment.
Mr. SHELL, in a very long speech, replied to the remarks
of Mr. Robinson and Mr. Sandbach, and entered upon the
merits of the general question 'on the grounds advanced by
Mr. Evans. If the warehouse-owners suffered an injury, it
would be for an object which would greatly benefit the gene-
ral interests of the community.. He should support the
original motion.

,
i‘lr. D. Honosost hoped, from the discussion hitherto
had, to be able to take such' a view of the question as would
prevent the time of the council being occupied by a continua-
tion of details which he respectfully submitted did not bear
upon the question. The question was one of principle, and
he -for one was resolved upon that principle. He was not
going to dispute whether warehouses were wanted or not.
That they were desired he thought there could be no ques-
tion ; but he was not at all disposed to enter upon that point,
He meant merely to ask this question, and it was curious he
should have to ask it from those who called themselves libe-
rals and reformers; whether they wished to perpetuate a mo-
nopoly ? If they were to have a monopoly of warehouses,
why not have a monopoly of ships ? Why not compete with
the public in ships upon tho same grand scale as would suit
the notion of the gentleman who spoke last? If he (Mr. H.)
could conceive. the Dock Committee to be possessed of all
wisdom and all capability, and that they were unbiassed in
all their acts, he would say, without hesitation, " confide the
monopoly. to them by all means ;" but he meant not the
slightest reflection upon them when he declared, that from
their position they were an incompetent body and ever must
he. He was surprised when he heard it broadly stated that
there was no political question in the present matter, He
happened to know, the sentiments of some of his old friends,
who were most anxious to support the dock estate under the
old corporation, but a change had taken place in their senti-
ments. So far from being actuated by a political spirit, he
believed he should be followed bysome gentlemen who would
say they should like to have the corporation as it was for po-
litical purposes—for the advantage of the party now in power.
He meant to give no offence to any individual, but he would
now throw aside the political part of the question. He con-
sidered the Watch Committee incompetent for the best ma-
nagement of the warehouses, should they be required; that up
to the present hour they had not done that which had been in
their power, which would have facilitated the business of the
port, and-have tendered the expense now called for for making
new docks quite unnecessary. He had no hesitation in saying
that a stimulus necessary for carrying on business with suc-
cess would have been given by charging vessels only in pro-
portion to the accommodation they. enjoyed. Whatever the
.clecisiow.might be, be could not help thinking that a large
proportion; of the gentlemen who had recommended this
course had. scarcely any interest-in warehouse property.. -The
• value of it, according to the mover of the resolution, was
£2,430,000. Now he (Mr. Hodgson) would venture to ask
that gentleman -what proportion of that sum belonged to
those who acted with him ? He (Mr. Hodgson) very much
questioned if it amounted to £40,000. Now, he had no
warehouse property ; : therefore, when he was speaking of
thoSe places which had the beau ideal for their momentum,
he could not be accused of having any private interest of his
own. When they found themselves in a position to inflict
upon the owners of that description of property in the town a
roost 'uncalled-for and serious injury, such man, he thought,
who wotild-ProPose it,' must have a considerable degree of
:confidence in hirnFelf, very nearly approaching to presump-
tion. -He ' did not mean to give offence ; but he did think
that witlii the opinion • expressed heee, as it would he by the
. diVision„,with the. opinion of the different public bodies, With
. the opititOii-Of the Warehouse proprietors, with the opinion,
,galning ground day by .day, that a better Rystetn:of dock ma-
, nagemetit Neff' la' adopted than that - ripe.- •nriiirisefl,. the
present might be characterised as a rash attertifi.tlo'ptema..
turely ceeeetbat Whibh"&nild tic/Ont.:reed in parlianifit, and
thiNt which would continue to be -a vexatious atid'itleitiwin,,
' ' tion-!' '•-With' these fielinga he v.-as. prepared tri'vbte .fOit'
„ -
amendment. tv.i,,,-4L
•,,, r. HonNur did not rise to reply:to-what had been said
'
nst warehouses on the dock .quaysi-botito,putt.hgrefitmn
; 7cyXight in one ImpOrtant point. ''lt Siiiitiliati-lot
or*of the public associated bodies were in faVour,of the pro-
position. It was desirable the 'council shrinld know that
at a.meeting of the •Shipowners' Association this "morning,
.•
they had pasied a resoint!cn.approving of it, •
Mr. .E,,\ amq.7-Does the resolution suite that they_akro'Ve,
of the warifiobSe,!i being under the rn/nagetrient Of the "dock
i trustees? - - -.' : . :-, .- .-:.
. Mr. Hoaxay.NO, it does not. -. .:, . •
Mr. EARLIf.-460110f,thit "that is mere hnportarif.
...
Mr. Ronxer'said the tipinion 'of the assOciation waS;jhat
. . .
the-warehortses should he leased,- and not worked by the dock
trustees. Mr. Hodgson see/44' to think that those gentle-
men who had been favourable to - separating the dock estate
from the council were inconsistent; now he (Mr. Ilornby)
could see no inconsistency in those gentlemen.
Mr. BOLTON said he was connected with the American
Association, which had sent in-a resolution-approving -of the
mode of management under the dock trustees.
Mr. W. W. CunniE, at some ' length, defended himself
from the imputation of inconsistency ; he said the speech of
his friend Mr. Hodgson was of. great importance in one point,
arid it ought to sink deep in the minds of the dock trustees,
. •
for it was'indicative of an intention, somewhere, to attempt
to separate the dock estate from the corporation.
Mr. HoliosoN.:---Honi sort qui mal y pense.
Mr. Cunn/E.HIs there any gentlemen here who did not
receive that speech as a kind of knell or warning of an in-
tention existing somewhere to separate the dock estate from
the corpoMtion?
Mr. HODGSON.—I must deny any such inference.
Mr. CuantE would put the question to any gentleman
Whether such an inference must not be drawn. if he was
wrong he was sorry for it, but-be never before heard aSpeech
Which so much held that inferenCe in terrovem.

Mr. SANDS--I had no -mid; impression.
Mr. Cunntr.—Perhaps you did not hear the words.
Mr. SANDS—Oh yes, I did.
Mr. CURRIE would never consent to diminish in any man-
ner the property of' the corporation, therefore he, for one,
Was prepared to resist the attempt, whenever it should be
made, to separate the dock estate from the corporation.
Mr. SANDS said, all he had heard had only served to 'con-
vince him of the propriety of the course he had taken upon
a formeroccasion, when this subject was before the council.—=
From what Mr. Currie had said he was satisfied the amend-
ment he proposed-would have met with the approbation of the

town at larie. Mr. Sands Went on to say tlia't his house had
lost nothing material in indigo by the Present system of ware-
housing, and to say that Mr. Benn was in error in his asser-
tion to the reverse. Hi's opinion was that the proposed ware-
houses would be worked much better by private hands than
by the trustees of the dock estate.
• Mr. Bt.AcKau RN ' followed, and in an address of consider-
able length, took up all, or nearly all of the arguments in fa-
vor of the proposed warehouses, and strongly urged them
upon the council. They would be attended, he said, with an
extension of the commerce of the port, and having this im-
pression, he should give his 'support to the original motion.
Mr. BUSHELL said he rose with feelings of great diffidence,
and with considerable distrust to address the council upon
the momentous question which agitated them. He had these
feelings in a higher degree, in consequence of seeing arrayed
against the view which, dispassionately and without prejudice,
he felt himself called upon to take a powerful combination of
the talent in that council. But, as in private matters so in
public, no personal considerations ever had, or ever should,
influence him in the course he should take wnen he felt he
was doing right. He stood before them then perfectly inde-
pendent, to oppose the objectionable clauses in the proposed
bill which the Dock Committee had called upon the council
to support. He was desirous, in discussing this matter, to
avoid all personal allusions—to avoid expressing any. senti-
ment which could, by any possibility, give personal offence ;
therefore, he had taken this opportunity of disclaiming any
such intention, if in the warmth of debate he should acci•
dentally fall into an error of that nature. Before he -littered
such sentiments, he begged to disavow them. He held in hiS
hand a pamphlet on this subject, a copy of which had been
presented to him by its very talented author. He confessed,
that upon the first reading of this pamphlet he was almost
led to believe that Mr. Evans had found out a panacea for
all the mercantile ills with which Liverpool was affected, and
that he could scarcely see the possibility of opposition to a
-scheme so just and rational. But when he came to reflect—
when he came to digest and analyze the propositions ad-
vanced in that pamphlet, he arrived at a totally different con-
clusion from that.which he had in the first instance hastily
formed—a circumstance which showed the effect of ad cap.
.tandem arguments upon the.mind before we .gave ourselves
an opportunity tO.,consider.the entire- question.. If he could
have brought his mind to believe that all the advantages
enumerated in that. pamphlet could ever arise to the-town of
Liverpool by the adoption of its propositions, he would be.
one of the first to 'say, " let us have then] by all means, pro-
vided we can get them 'without a sacrifice of public
• principle:.on the part of this. body might, without
offence be permitted to . term the contents of the
pamphlet " Evans'S (Laughter.) In it the
talented author had advanced a great deal of mere
parable—a great deal on which it was not possible for the
Council to, agree. But be hOped that this municipal heal-ail
would never be permitted to bear the .government stamp.
(Hear, hear.) He would first address himself to Mr. Black-
burn, in language which that gentleman could not fail to'un-
derstand...He would ask him, whether it were the custom
among respectable practitioners -to foster a disease for the
sake of profit? Would
.any respectable pra,ctitioner be so
base as first to extend the malady it was his duty,to cure,
and then coolly turn round to the patient and say,-7" It is
true I have done nothing for you ; it is true I have . got_ pay
and profit by you; but I have not applied those simple re-
Medics to your case which I might have done, and now it has
become so had, that nothing is left for us but ainpiltatiori ?"
Mr. Blackburn's views on this question were exactly those
of a man who, having fostered • a disease for many years,
without applying a single remedy towards checking it, turned
round, as the last resort, and said to the unfortunate patients;
the warehouse-owners,—" We will treat you like co many
hospital patients, and practise our experiments upon you, in
the hope to benefit the community at large. (Hear, hetie;)
Did Mr.• Blackburn approve of this course of action ? lie
(Mr. Bushell) would declare, that during many many years,
which it had been asserted to-day in this Council, and not
denied, the acts of the old Council were biwling uponoie
new ; and if they applied that principle to the present 'sys-
tem, they must apply it to all times. Now we had it on re-
cord, and the fact could not be controverted, that-the old
Council did foster and encourage the building of warehouses,
for the sake of their own profit. Could they believe that, if
the present warehouse-owners had Considered it poSsible that
they shotild ever be competed with by ,a public bOdy lilts the
Corp Oration, which public body had been obtaining profit by

selling land on ,lease for these very purposes, would they
have dreamed of paying the enormous prices for. the land
sold to them for that.special purpose—namely, the erection
of warehouses ? Would any man, possessed of common
sense, have' thought for a moment of paying such prices as
were then demanded ? For this reason he asserted that the
Council had fostered and promoted the disease (if disease it
be) ; and now, when they had found it out, they turned round
and said,—" We Will not apply the simple remedies we ought
to have applied long ago, but we will go at once for amputa-
tion." .(Hear.) He (Mr. Bushell) had no interest in
Warehouses, ifor he did not hold a single brick in Liverpool—
he•wished lie did: but, at the same time, he should be happy
to he convinced if he was wrong in his opinions, and he might
• vef, • like Mr. Currie, turn round and speak the other way
(Hear, hear.) He now claimed their attention whilst he read
some curious, extracts from Mr.. Evans' pamphlet, and he
Would Cali' Winn them to 'observe : carefully the way in which
!the talented writer spoke • . :

" Warehonie,;;;.if :cr e ete d ,
.1.0441 afford such
_shelter that
the incrtiitte§hips the docks would n'eet• difficult."
" The,despatch which warehouses.on the dock quays wottl(J
give to the discharging of ships laden with foreign produce
will, in effect, be equivalent to increased dock-room. Ware-
houses will pay for themselves, and commerce will escape the
burden of making and maintaining new docks, which, with
their aid, will then, to a less extent, be necessary."

" The:security of public stores will bring with it the prac-

tice of warrants and -certificates, by which. goods will, with-
out expense, be transferable, and, rendered into active capi-
tal, become almost as available as money itself."

" Shipowners will avail themselves of the warehouses for
depositing unclaimed or disputed goods, and for securing
their freights by holding a sure lien upon the cargo."

" Dock warehouses will reduce fire insurance more than
80 per cent. upon the premium now charged upon Liverpool
warehouses, which is 10s., whilst, in London, it is only Is. Gd.
per cent.
" Let,Liverpool provide proper warehouses, in their proper
place, and it may soon become the chief emporium of the
East and West India trade, as well as of that of South
America."

"The means which this town can put into action would
give it a large portiOn of the inland trade in sugar, tea, in-
digo, drysalteries, &c., now held by London."
"The ability to 'supply foreign and domestic produce; at
the cheapest rates, would, in like manner, draw hither the
trade of the South of Europe and of the Mediterranean."

It was in this chOice mode that Mr. Evans spoke throughout
his work. All the advantages which he enumerated were
entirely suppositious : they all depended upon ifs and shoulds
and moulds. -(Hear.) Would not the council concede that
it was very desirable, in so important a scheme, yet to be
adopted, that Mr. Evans should have stated facts instead of
opinions only ?; With all his talent. which he (Mr. Bushell)
should be proud to pogsess, he must take the liberty of say-
ing that Mr. Evans 's opinions were by no means infallible.
(Hear.) A word now to Mr. Blackburn, who had told the
council it was possible he might lose his seat for his opinions
upon this question. What did that circumstance prove ?
Why, that the opinions of the town were against him (ap-
plause)—that, by erecting these intended warehouses, they
would be thrusting them down the people's throats when
they did not want them, and when the exigencies of -com-
merce did not need them. (Applause.) Mr. Blackburn,
therefore, had advanced one-of the very strongest arguments
against the motion—
Mr. BLACKBURN.—It is a misrepresentation : I did not
conceive I should lose my seat for my opinions on this ques-
tion, but that I might be taunted with them.
Mr. BUSHELL.—I give Mr. Blackburn the benefit of his
explanation.
Mr. BLACKBURN.—That is all I want.
Mr. JORDAN.—Go on.
Mr. BUSHELL would go on, and repeat that Mr. Black-
burn had thus advanced one of the very strongest arguments
it was possible to use against the proposed measure. (Hear,
hear.) Having, then, fairly demolished Mr. Blackburn,.
(hear, hear,) he would advance against Mr. Evans. (Hear,
hear.) Mr. Evans had told the council that the competition
which it was intended to offer in these proposed warehouses
was, avowedly, intended to produce the effect of depreciating
prices—that was, to lower the rates of porterage, rents, and
all the ordinary warehouse charges. In the face of such
a bold assertion as that, was it possible for the warehouse-
owners to feel at peace with the scheme? No. (Hear, hear.)
It had been asserted, that thirty years ago the owners of
warehouse property were the opponents then, as now, of a
similar system to this, which was then proposed. Yes, and
properly so. But he would ask the promoters of the
scheme why the corporation for the time being, and the cor-
poration subsequently, had not opposed the lurking disease,
which they saw going on and'spreading itself? (Hear, hear.)
Why did they not say to the purchasers of land, when they
made application for it, " we will sell you land if you wish,
but we will not allow you to build warehouses upon it, be-
cause WE intend- to erect them ?" That would have been a
just and upright line of condUct on the part of the corpo-
ration (hear, hear); . but to foster _and encourage the build-
ing -of warehouses, -to get as. large a price for their land as
they could, to insist upon the erection of warehouses upon
it; and then turn round to• ruin the property they had helped
to create, was aline of conduct in which he could not for
one moment concur. (Applause.) Railways and canals
had been quoted, as parallel cases to that before the council;
hut-he contended • there was no analogy- between them.
(Hear.) Railways and canals were not fostered by any pub-
lic bodies like this corporation ; on the contrary, they were
left to the spirit and enterprise of private individuals. But
in this case the council themselves had been the foster fathers
of the present system, and now they were its opponents for
the same reason—to promote their own interests. (Hear.)
If any thing was a parallel to it, he conceived the slave com-
pensation to be that parallel. What was the case there ?
We found that the: slave trade had been encouraged by Go-
vernment for many years ; when the Government found a
cry came from the nation—and a proper cry—saying, "
will not tolerate this odious system any longer," -they said,
" we will do away with it; but, as we have fostered it for the
benefit of the community at large, of -course we must give
compensation to the slave-owners." Now here was exactly
_a parallel case. .If the Government gave compensation to
those iwhose property they injured by the change, this Coun.
ell mist givecourpensation.to the warehOuse-o*tiers.: for the
(;injury`. ~upon them.. If they. were not prepared to
do that, they must incur the odium of having been guilty Of
the grOsansrinjtfStree..• • . .• • .
Mr tkhlerinan BENsk,:here intimated his dissent from the
parallel by laughing at it.
Mr. Btstt.t. said Mr. Benn might laugh if he thonglit
proper at the injury that would be committed by the pro-.
posed scheme; but it Was no laughing matter for the Unfor-
tunate werehOnse owners to find their property ruined by the
cisrporation. He (Mr. Bashell)-trosted,that, notwithstand-
ing,.gr. Benn's laughter, the council would take a just and
,
cominon sett view of the question:There', were -many per-
mot;i in..oestfoaricil who were advocates of free tratlei434,
was.aled. ; and he would ask them what had their free _trade
led them to They told us that' their sole motive in wishing -
to build. these warehouses was to increase the,trade of Livers•
pool, and to further the interests of the port. - Now, he said,
they were grossly inconsistent in their conduct. When it
was proposed by Mr. Poulett Thomson, then President of
the Board of Trade, to introduce a bill for establishing the
system of inland bonding, they stood by passive •speetators.
Yes, when a measure was.proposed by the government which
would have had the effect of taking away one half of the trade
of Liverpool they were passiVe—
A COUNCILLOR.—Oh, Qh-! • •
Mr. BusriELL.,--0h.,. .011! Aye, it was "oh, oh!"
(Laughter.) He repeated; that, although that measure would
have destroyed half the commerce of Liverpool, these gen-
tlemen hadnot stirred to interfere.. (Hear, hear.) The ef-
fect upon his own trade would have been to ruin it, or at
least to have compelled him to maintain two establishments,
one here and another in Manchester. (Hear.) He would
therefore ask:upon what 'principle this council, whose duty
it was to support and protect the trade of the town, could be
passive when war, to the.very knife, was declared against it?
(Hear, hear.) It might be expected, as he had alluded to it,
that he should enter upon the'effect which the inland bond-
ing system would- have upon the trade of the town-
- Several COiiNcfsiOns--" Question, question."
Mr. BUSHELL.--Why inland bonding bore most distinctly
- upon the.question—s(hear,:hear)—and he could readily prove
in.what way it would affect the trade of Liverpool. If it
were adopted,. the manufacturers of Manchester would be-
come merchants;, and we, instead of being merchants and
brokers as we now were, should become little better than a
community of ;forwarding agents. (Hear, hear.) That
would he the.effect -of the inland bonding system upon the
trade of this town, and he would leave the council to decide
whether it had no reference to the question. (Hear.) He
wished to tell those gentlemen that they were inconsiderate
advocates, of the trade of Liverpool, when they were passive a
at time when that trade was to be taken from them, and
active only :when they had this bantling of a warehouse
scheme, which they were so anxious to nurse into maturity.
With regard to the simple remedies which ought to have
been applied, before they attempted to commit the injustice
Which they were about to perpetrate upon the warehouse-
owners, he would read an extract from Mr. Clint's evidence,
given before the finance committee.
Mr. Alderman EVANS.-1 wish you would call Mr. Clint
again.

-Mr. BusnEt.L.--If Mr. Alderman Evans wished for that,
it showed that ..powers had been at work out of the dock
committee to effect a change. He would not say that powers
had been at work with Mr. Currie, but he must be permitted
to say, that that gentleman's first impressions were most
likely to be just and correct, when he was staggered at the
evidence, showing the injustice of the contemplated measure.
That time, however, had gone by. Mr. Currie had changed
his opinions of the evidence ; but he (Mr. Bushell) imputed
no motives to him on that account.

Mr. Alderman EyANS.---Tilen second thoughts are not
always best.
Mr. BUSIIELL would admit that his first impression of
Mr. Evans's book was different to that he now held, and he
had explained the cause, but then he did not leave his room
until he had read it twice, and upon the second reading his
opinion changed. Mr. Currie, on the other hand, had been
some time in operating the change in his sentiments. To
return to the evidence, Mr. Clint said

"The next evil is, that the docks are badly conducted :
Prince's Dock and George's Dock are the two central docks,
and most merchants wish to have their vessels near their own
warehouses or offices ; and the dock masters are anxious to
get the docks crowded. I do not find fault with the servants
of the trust, for they are all gentlemanly men, [Mr. B. : But
we don't want gentlemanly men, we want working men,] but
with the system. When the Prince's Dock is so full that
there is not room to work the vessels, a merchant comes to
the dock master, and says, You must let this ship in.' The
dock-master says he cannot, .because the dock is full. '
no,' says the merchant, ' there is a small corner there; just
let her in.' The dock-master, being anxious to oblige, does
so ; and thus that dock, is crammed, whilst others to the
right and left are comparatively empty."
Now what would the council say of that system of manage-
ment which tolerated the employment of such servants?
Here we saw that influence was at work with the dock mas-
ter to induce him to find room for a vessel although he had
only a few moments before positively asserted the dock was
quite full ! (Hear.) This, be it remembered, was the opinion
of Mr. Clint, whose evidence before the Finance Committee
was in favour of the scheme, although his opinion was against
it ! But c.% little more of his testimony
Thereis another thing I would mention : the dock-master
(I will take the Prince's Dock, for instance) has not suffici-
ent hands to navigate it."
" A great deal could be done, but it would be beginning, at
the wrong end, to build warehouses on the present docks.
This was enough from Mr. Clint's evidence to shew that the
council had not adopted the simple remedies which, in com-
mon justice, they were bound to use in order to cure the
disease. They had not petitioned Ole Board of Customs, as
they ought to have done, for an increase in that establish-
ment—a measure which would have been attended with great
benefit to merchants and shipowners ; the Dock Committee
had not taken every means to improve their system of ma-
nagement by adding new cranes and other facilities; and,
without resorting to the milder remedies, which they ought
to have done, they had at once proceeded to the extremity
of amputation. (Hear.) He might go on and enlarge upon
the inefficiency of the system ; but he would first ask, what
had Manchester done that she should have deserved the spe-
cial patronage of this corporate body ? (Hear.)
Mr. Alderman EvAsts and OTHERS.—Oh, oh !
Mr. BUSHELL, begged to assure those gentlemen who had
interrupted him,. that be would not be put down by their
exclamations of ".0h,.-oh!" '(Cheers.) They must really
listen to him, whether willingly or otherwise; and he hoped
they would, as members of that council, pay him the cour-
tesy of listening in silence. (Hear.) He would again ask,
what had, Manchester done that they should throw this sop
to her ? Was there not something like government patron-
age at the bottom of the,scheroe.which had been proposed in
Manchester?, (Hearshear.) He believed that if the inland
bonding plan had been proposed by any' other government

than the present "liberal_" government, this council would
not have been so passive as they had been-=•.
A COUNCILLOR (Mr. RATHISONE, we believe).—Oh, oh !
Mr. BrisHELL.—Oh. oh ! sir, but you must listen! (Ap-
plause.) As tax-payers he should have thought-the council
would have felt their individual interest affected by the con- '
cession of this question, seeing that there must be, in that
case, a second custom-house establishment—one here, and
the other in Manchester. (Hear.) A word or two now
to Mr. Evans, on his statement- that some means must
be devised for emancipation. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Evans
could not, in the exercise. of his well-known ingenuity,.
have hit upon a better • word-% to suit his. (Mr. Bushell's)
purpose. He would, therefore,stell Mr. Evans that the •
only honourable. or fair aneans of -emancipation - was -by
• compensation.' (Hear, hear.) If the council were not
prepared to give compensation, they could not. justly carry -
emancipation. • Now, with .regard ,to enonopoly,-•which 104
Been spoken of, he maintained
.they.were inconsistent again..
Their advocacy of, free trade, in the_ case of the Inland bond-
Inesystem, was. totally
.at variance with • monopolizing the
business of warehouSe -occupiers,: carters, porters, , &c.
(Hear.) if they were inconsistent with regard to free -trade.
,only, he might have been satisfied
..perhaps
.but he had
proved that they were -grossly inconsistent in endeavouring
to give free trade to Manchester whilst they aimed at esta-
blishing a monopoly here. (Hear.). Now he came to that
which was at the bottom of the whole scheme—namely, pa-
tronage. (Hear, hear.) He defied any body of men to deny
that if this proposed system were introduced, patronage would
be the result, He was not imputing that this patronage
would he abused ; but he knew so much of the 'constitution
of public bodies that he would net give patronage to any of
'them ; and if the constitution of this council were changed
(and he. hoped it would be changed ere long), he would op-
pose any plan for giving into its hands the power which
would necessariiv exist if the proposed plan were permitted
to be carried. He need not tell the council, what indeed
was well known to the leaders of the liberal party in the
-town, that if these warehouses were built choice would be
.given to men of their own political sentiments, and the effect
would be that the representation of the town would be in the
bands of the dock trustees. (Oh ! oh !) Now he must con-
'tend that it was the duty of this council, before proceeding
to the last extremity, to adopt the plans of sheds and cranes,
`to improve the dock accommodation, and to procure an in-
'crease of the custom-house establishment.. If they would
' try this system, say for a period of ten years, and it was not
' found to answer, he would then turn round; like Mr. Currie,
and assist them. (Hear.)
. • Mr. Alderman LEATHOM said, the Custom-house esta-
blishment was not under the control of the dock trustees.
Mr. Busa ma. was quite aware of that tact, but the dock
committee might have petitioned for the increase, and no
doubt the request would have been granted. The question
iwas, had they, the dock committee, done all in their power to
improve the trade of the town. He contended they had not;
that Mr. Clint's evidence proved the dock management to be
inefficient ; and that it was a very bold proposition to come
here and attempt to destroy the warehouses which they had
fostered. He called upon gentlemen to pause before they
decided this question, for otherwise they would certainly be
sacrificing the interests of a body which ought to have the
protection of the council, inasmuch as their warehouses had
been fostered by them.
Mr. CußatE said great stress had been laid upon the fact
that the old corporation had fostered the building of these
warehouses. There were but two members of the old council
in the room, and he appealed to them if it was the fact,
that the old corporation did foster the building of warehouses.
The old corporation had sold their land without any restric-
tions whatever of this nature.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—The old corporation did foster it
so far as this -- they guarded against warehouses being
built round the docks ; therefore Mr. Currie must not say
that. At any rate they sold land at £6 per square yard, and
required that it should only be used for warehouses.
Mr. BUSHELL had it before him in evidence, and a letter
from Mr. Montgomery, that such was the fact. He would
also ask the Town-clerk whether leases of land had not been
granted by the corporation, in which it was expressly stipu-
lated that warehouses, and nothing but warehouses, should
be built thereon, and that within the period of two'years ?
(" Hear," and a cry of " Adjourn.")
The MAYOR said, the member for Abercrornby Ward had
spoken of him as a political partisan : he knew it was in his
personal, and not in his official, capacity. But he (the
mayor) would add another word, due, he thought, to the
council. He had been a member of the Watch and Dock
Committees before he 'occupied that chair, and he would
assert that political patronage had never in any degree been
exercised by any individual in his public capacity as a mem-
ber of those committees or of the council. He trusted,
therefore, that the idea of political patronage being exercised
by any portion of the council would be abandoned.
Mr. BUSHELL explained, and, in the course of his obser-
vations, paid a high compliment to the courtesy and impar-
tiality observed by the mayor.
Mr. ISAAC HOLMES said that he should not have made any
political allusions ; but as Mr. Blackburn had thought proper
to make allusion thereto, he could not avoid it. The gentle-
men on the other side might disclaim any wish to interfere
politically with any of the individuals who might be appointed
to situations under the Dock Committee, but it was, in the
natural course of events that they will use their influence with
those voters who would be placed under their control. Could
it be disputed that there were market-lookers who were mem-
bers of the Reform Association ? He stated it as a fact, that
there were superintendents and inspectors of police who had
been solicited to join that association. If the dock trust did
not wish for patronage by this measure, why had they not in-
serted a clause in their bill, to prevent any person employed
by the Dock Committee from voting or interfering at elec-
tions, either parliamentary or municipal ? It was notorious
that they woad employ five or six hundred individuals in the
capacity of coopers porters, warehouse-keepers, &c., and he
(Mr. Holmes) had no doubt that the preference would be
given to those who had voted for the reform candidates. .The
act of parliainentto prevent custom-house-officers, &c., from
voting at elections, was in very few words, " Be it enacted
that, to pre,serve the purity of election, that such custom-
honse-officerS; &c., shall abstain from voting or interfering
at elections tzniler-aleavy penalty. ", He would refer to what
had fallen from Mr. Currie, the chairman of the Finance
Committee. He .was astonished to find that that gentleman
intended to vote against -his' 'own measure—that he would
abandon his own offspring. He (Mr. Holmes) would have
thought that when the Dock Committee took the bantling of
'his:brain- mkt' whipped-and scourged it, that he of all others
swould have protected the child. - But no ; he had cast it off,
and he now sent it to be protected by those who were not its
'father. „Whence cOuld this-thzinge• originate ? how could this
Curious conversion• have °emit-red ? Perhaps there was a
source, there taught be, a cause.
IrWC•could enter into those regions
Inge, where cherubim
And seraphim go sing their strains,
- - • ''Rejliiblitle ttiriT-Atrength and power,--
. • There i 9 • the place where discord ceases,
Where councillors change their views,
• And acquiescent to the ruling powers become.
He would now reply. to the observations of Alderman George
Holt—a gentleman whom he highly repected ; but yet he
could not concur in his opinions. -That gentleman instanced
railroads : .he said that competition was allowed in railroads,
and therefore that owners of warehouses mist also expect.
competition. But was it not a fact that there was a railroad
projected from Liverpool to Leeds, passing close by Man-
chester, but that parliament would not entertainthe measure,
as they considered it was an improper interference? Those
gentlemen who wished to try experiments in warehouse build-
ing. had better go to the projected port of Fleetwood ; for, as
to this port they could not' alter it: Warehouses were already
erected, and it would be an act of injustice to•the warehouse
owners to build warehouses in competition with those already
existing. What was the proportion of the warehouses now
sought for? There were 320 bonding warehouses at present in
Liverpool. The number the dock estate now wanted to build
would bear the proportion of about 140 to 320 ; it would of
course destroy that property. Hewould,however,instance what
might be the case : if there was in a place 100 warehouses,
and only 90 wanted, what would the owners of the 10 untenanted
warehouses do ? They would offer at a lower rent, to induce
some of those who occupied the others to change their tenant-,
cies, and thus they would continue to offer at one price or
other until rents were reduced about 30 per cent. As to
warehouses facilitating the discharge, it. was known that if
there were no impediments from the Custom-house or from
some other source, vessels could readily he discharged. He
(Mr. Holmes) might mention, that he was authorised by Mr.
Samuel Perry to say, that let him take horses to any vessel
of 500 or 600 tons, having an assorted cargo on board, and
he would discharge her in twelve hours. (Laughter.) Gen-
tlemen might laugh ; he himself smiled when Mr. Perry
made the assertion ; but that gentleman went on to assert,
that if two steamers were to arrive in the morning title,
with from two to three hundred tons in each, they could not
only discharge them,, but they could load them, and have
them ready to go out at the evening's tide. Mr. Mates
also instanced the dreadful situation in which those persons
would be placed who had mortgaged warehouses. One indi-
vidual had said, " I own warehouses to the value of £30,000,
but have mortgages of £20,000 upon them : it this bill should
pass, I shall be beggared.". Mr. Holmes noticed the re-
marks of Mr. Evans as to the''yalue of the warehouse pro-
perty in the town. Mr. Evans said it was only about two
millions instead 'of four. If that were the fact, it increased
the proportion of `warehouses sought for : instead of a small
per tentage, they wanted-25. per cent. But Mr. Evans said
that there was consolation to the warehouse-owners in this
reduced estimate : they had only two millions to lose instead
of four. Why, would it be any consolation to a beggar, to
tell him there were only 1000 beggars instead of 2000? It
was an insulting expression.
The TOWN-CLERK, in answer to Mr. Bushell's question,
said it was perfectly clear that in the leases of land it was co-
venanted that warehouses should be erected within from two
to three years. The leases referred to would be found ac-
curately stated in pages 43 to 46 of the Finance Committee's
report. In those covenants the parties were bound to erect
warehouses ; but. there was no pledge as to how the corpora-
tion would deal with their other property near the docks. He
had thought it his duty to advise the Finance Committee that
there was no such pledge•--'2•-no ground of charging the corpo-
ration ivith a breach of faith, nor any ground on the part of the
warehouse-owners to ask for compensation.
Mr. COOPER strongly objected to the original motion. He
was not a warehouse-owner himself; but he should oppose,
he would not say the building of warehouses at all on the
dock quays, but the building of them by the dock trust out
of the public funds, to the injury of private enterprise. Mr.
Holt had endeavoured to bring down the value of the ware-
house property to a very low ebb; but it had been clearly
shown that bonded cellars, such as those under the Royal
Bank, had been left out in the calculation which had been
put forth by the warehouse proprietors, and it had also been
clearly proved that 1.:2,4x10,000 had actually been borrowed
on mortgage on that property. Mortgagees never lent more
than two-thirds of the real value, so that this would give a
clear value of £3,700,000.
Mr. Masrumt rose to speak, but as the council were grow-
ing very impatient, he asked whether they were willing to a&
journ. The question was replied to by loud cries of " No,
no." Mr. M. then briefly expressed his opposition to the
original motion. The. proposal of the Finance Committee,
that transit sheds should be so erected that they might after-
wards be raised in-height, and become, in fact, warehouses,
would have perfectly met his view.
Mr. DUNCAN said that as he could not bring forward an
amendment, as he had intimated, he should not vote either
for the motion or amendment.
Mr. EVANS having replied, the vote was taken. The
amendment of Mr. Booth was negatived by a majority of al
to 27.
For the amendment there voted—
Councillors—Hodgson, J. Holmes, I. Holmes, Houghton,
Preston, Sandbach, Frankland, Wright, Barton, Sands, H.
Holmes, Cooper, J. Lawrence, Robinson, H. Lawrence,
Wood, Gladstone, Bushell, Rigby, Jones, G. H. Lawrence,
Leigh and Smith. , Aldermen—Booth, Jones, Earle and
Freme.
Against the amendment—
Councillors—Quayle, Thornhill, 'Mellor, Pilcher, Bolton,
Priestley, Woollwright, Bright, Rathbone, Hornby, Yates,
Blackburn, Morecroft, Seger, Coglan, Platt, WlCee, Jor-
dan, Duncan, Currie and Mather. Aidermen—Sheil,
Hornby, Roskell, Leathom, G. Holt, Benn, Moon, Evans,
Barclay, Bulley, T. Holt, Harvey, and the' Mayor.
Absent—Messrs. Case, Lassa", and Carson.
• For the original motion there voted 33; against it 28. The
voting in, this instance was reversed, excepting in the case of
Mr. Duncan, who voted against the motion as well es the
artiendment.
The principle of the measure having thus been .affirmed,
Mr. Lawrence intimated that he should not, as he saw that
it would be useless, press his motion ; hut he should avail
himself of the right to oppose the question of management..
Mr. EARLE inquired whether the council would have the
pOWer to object to the management'of the warehouses, now
that the principle was affirmed. It was important that they
should have a clear understanding on that point.

The Ma.ygit replied •in the affirmative; but Mr. Earle
wished that the 'town-clerk should give his opinion.
The TowN..-ni,ilk said that it appeared to him that neither
in the resolutions of the 2d of October, nor in the motion of
Mr. Evans, was there any thing conclusive as to the manage-
ment, and therefore the question might be gone into.
The MAYOR intimated that the council would then adjourn
until the following morning, at half-past eleven o'clock, when
the clauses of the bill would be taken into separate considera-
tion.

To this there was some objection on the part of Mr. Earle
.and others ; who were desirous that the council should be ad-
journed until Friday, in order that they might have an oppor-
tunity of consulting with their friends as to what course
should now he pursued. The members of the Dock Com-
mittee, however, :stated that there was not a single day to
and -the council ultimately decided-.to adjourn until
-Thuisady morning, at half-past eleven o'clock.
The council did not break up Until a quarter to five.
ADJOURNED COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS.
•
The adjourned meeting
.of the. Town-council took place,
according to -appointment, yesterday morning, at half-past
eleven o'clock. There were about forty members present.
Mr. H. LAWRENCE said—We are met to-day to discuss
the clauses of the bill, the propriety of introducing which
occupied us the whole of yesterday. We have not seen the
bill, and the abstract has only been in our hands a few days.
We are given to.anderstand that any delay will prevent the
bringing in the bill; I say nothing about delaying the subject
to the last moment. The Town-clerk, who is your legal ad-
viser, has said that the clauses may be considered as read,
and, that, if required, any clause must be read. To be pro-
fessionally consistent, I cannot assent to any clause which I
have not had an opportunity of considering, as there have
been instances of marginal abstracts diametrically opposite to
the clauses to which they refer. If I insist upon reading
every clause, it will be attributable to a wish to delay your
proceedings, and, as I cannot make myself responsible with-
out so insisting, and from the organization of the ranks of
our opponents 1 cannot expect any impression to be made
upon them, I will not unnecessarily protract discussion, but
prefer retiring from the debate.
The TOWN-CLERK wished to observe, before Mr. Law-
' rence left the room, that it was his opinion that if the coun-
cil unanimously determined to consider the reading of the
heads of the bill, with liberty to call for the reading at length
of particular clauses of the bill that might be wanted, as a de
facto reading of the bill, then the council might proceed
in that manner. The council unanimously agreeing to that
course would be equivalent to a reading of the bill; and he
believed that, in the courts of law, and especially in the courts
of equity, such a course was considered a proper one, and
frequently followed, as Mr. Lawrence himself must be aware.
Mr. H. LAWRENCE remarked that he was not disputing
the propriety of the course suggested by the Town-clerk ; he
only said that, professionally, he could not give his assent to
any clause that had not been read, and, as he was not willing
to take up the time of the council in demanding that each
clause should be read, he should at once retire. if lie stopped
he must insist on the reading of the whole bill.
The TOWN-CLERK said that if any gentleman insisted on
the reading pf the bill, it must be read.
The MAYOR observed that by the motion of Mr. Evans,
agreed to on the preceding day, it had been decided that
" each clause should be taken into separate consideration,
and that the council do forthwith proceed to the consideration
thereof accordingly." Each clause would therefore, as a
matter of course, be read, unless the council unanimously
agreed to dispense with the reading.
Mr. H. LAWRENCE.—Then I must go away ; for I cannot
dispense.
The MAYOR.—It is exceedingly desirable, I think, that
the clauses should be read.

Mr. H. LAWRENCE.—You will find many differ from you,
I think.

Mr. LEATHOM here handed to the Mayor a letter from
Mr. G. Worthington, which was read. It is as follows :
" Morley's Hotel, Charing Cross,
sth February, 1840.
" SIR,—I have the pleasure to inform you that the bill
has passed the standing orders' committee. I hope to hear
to-morrow morning that the division in the council has been
favourable to the bill. The committee on the Herculaneum
bill is fixed for Monday, but will be adjourned till the follow-
ing day. Whether it will be proper for me to remain here
till Tuesday, or return in the interim, will depend on the di-
vision of the council. 1 hope to receive the petitions against
the Herculaneum and Harrington bills, for non-compliance
with the standing orders, by the mail in the morning.
" I have the honour, &c.
" GEO. WORTHINGTON."
Mr. BUSHELL would merely express an opinion that, as
the principle of the bill had already been conceded by the di-
vision of yesterday, and as that principle formed the chief
point of their. objection, he did not think that any good
would result to those who thought with• him, if they were to
combat the bill clause by clause. The principle having been
admitted, he should give up all opposition, except as to such
clauses as he did not approve of.
Mr. IsAnc HOLMES agreed in the course about to be pur-
sued by Messrs. Lawrence and Bushell. He now plainly
saw that the only place in which the bill could be opposed
was in parliament. Whether he himself should oppose it in
that place he would not then say ; but most probably he
should be one of those who intended to do so. The majority
in favour of the principle of the bill was composed entirely of
aldermen, to whom even the shadow of representation could
not belong ; and he should therefore withdraw himself from
the council, and allow them to proceed unopposed in their
course.

Mr. BUSHELL then asked whether any other business
would be brought forward ?
The MAYOR.—This is a quarterly as well as a monthly
meeting.

Mr. BUSHELL asked whether, as many gentlemen had an-
ticipated that not only that day, but the ensuing one, would
be taken up by the consideration of the clauses, it was not
desirable that all other business should be postponed to some
future day:

The MAyon thought that they had, then, better read the
leases first, and afterwards proceed with the clauses. They
might then adjourn to some other day.
Some members named Friday, others Saturday, and others
Wednesday.
Mr. Alderman SHEIL asked why they could not then go
on ? Every member bad had full notice that a council would
he held that day, and they ought to be prepared to attend.
Very heavy calls were made on members, who were neces-
sarily detained from their business, and they ought nit to
throw away a day for any trilling reason. •
Mr. BRIGHT was of the same opinion.. He had come pre,
pared to •g 6 on with the business that was to come before
them.

The TOWN-CLERK- said that there was very important
and pressing business, and it wits desirable that no time
should he lost. . .

A

Mr. BustiELL said that he had only spoken on behalf of
those gentlemen who .were away. If there were important
and pressing business, he should not press the adjournment.
The council decided to, go on as far as possible with the
business. Nearly all the conservative members then left. the .
room. •
THE NEW DOCK BILL—CONSIDERATION OF THE CLAUSES.
The clauses of the bill were then severally read.
The TOWN-CLERK first read the preamble, which recited
that it was desirable to enable the trustees of the docks to
erect warehouses on the west quay of the Prince's dock, to
make a wet dock with warehouses on the quays, and to con-
struct -..
other works, to raise a further sum of money, and for
enlarging the powers of the several acts relating to the docks
.-
and harbour of Liverpool.—On the motion of Mr. LEATEOM,
seconded by Mr. BENN, the preamble was agreed to.
The first clause was next read. It was to the effect that
the acts recited in the preamble, except where altered, and
the present act, should be construed as one act.—Mr. DUN-
CAN asked whether the questions under this bill would be
carried by a majority of two-thirds of the council ?—The
TOWN-CLERK replied in the affirmative.—Mr. DUNCAN -
then moved that the council should. have the same control-
ling power, so far as related to the building of warehouses,
over the Dock Committee, as they had over the other corn-
mittees.—Mr. HENRY HOLMES seconded the motion.—it
was opposed by Mr. EVANs, Mr. SANDBACH, and the
TOWN-CLERK, and eventually withdrawn.—The clause was
then carried.

The second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and other clauses
up to the thirty-sixth, being principally the usual clauses
authorizing and facilitating conveyances of the property on
the west side of Saithouse Pork, and settling the amount of
purchase money and claims by a jury or by arbitration, were
next agreed to.
The 37th clause, " that if the trustees should not, within
seven years after the passing of the act, agree for and pur-
chase the premises, the right of compelling the sale thereof
should cease," was carried without remark.

The 38th and 39th relative to the construction, &c., of
the new dock, were also carried. _

The 40th clause requited that the expense of erecting.
repairing, and managing the warehouses, . should be defrayed
out of the rates.—Mr. SANDBACH moved an amendment, to
the effect that these warehouses be let by auction, which
would secure competition for them. lie stated that Mr.
Bolton was in error yesterday, when he mentioned that the
American association approved of the bill. They approved,
not of the •bill, but of the principle of having warehouses
upon the dock quays—in which he (Mr. Sandhach) concur-
red, But so far from the American association approving of
the management of the dock warehouses they expressly stated
that they ought to he private property. Upon this ,point,
therefore, the council would have the opposition of all the •
associations. There were various ways in which the manage-
ment might be arranged—one, for instance, he had proposed.
—Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE seconded the amendment.—Mr.
HORNBY opposed it, but spoke in favour of leasing the pro-
posed warehouses.—Mr. Alderman BENN supported the
clause as it stood.—Mr. Alderman EARLE supported the
amendment ; and Mr. G. Hour ridiculed the idea of placing
the docks and the warehouses under different managements.
—Mr. Alderman EVANS at great length vindicated the
clause.—Mr. Alderman BooTH said he would never consent
to take the management out of the hands of the dock corn- „-•
trtittee.—Mr. Bot,ToN opposed the amendment, and made •
some explanations as to the wishes of the public associations.
—Mr. SANDUACH, seeing the feeling of the council against
him, withdrew his amendment, and the clause, as it originally
stood, was carried.
Clauses from 41 to 71 were carried after a short uninter-
esting discussion upon several of them. Clause 73 em-
powers the dock masters to charge 2d per ton in addition to the
usual rates and duties, upon every vessel remaining in the
docks longer than four months. It was carried unanimously. •
The 75th clause gives power to appoint two or more harbour .
masters, and the 76th further powers to expedite the more
speedy entrance and exit of vessels from the docks. The
application of the penalties authorised in the 80th clause,
was referred to the consideration of the Finance Committee
t 1
—the question being whether they should be applied by the joi
Dock Trustees, in the same manner as the rates and duties,
or be handed over to the borough fund. The 83d clause, '-‘,O
which also provided for the application of penalties, was re-
ferred to the same committee. .
The 85th clause empowered the trustees to borrow money,
and Mr. LEATHOM stated, it had been estimated they should
want £956,000. The 91st clause, which required that the
limits of the respective estates of the corporation and Dock
Trustees should be set out by three persons, was referred to -
the Finance Committee. The 95th and 96th clauses related
to the union of the dock police and the borough police, and
it was referred to the Watch Committee. The remaining
clauses related to the custody of the common seal of the
trustees, the interpretation of the act, the expenses of the
act to be paid by the trustees ; and the 100th and last clause
declares the act to be a public act. The reading of the bill
occupied upwards of three hours.
A resolution was next adopted to the effect, that, it be a fur-
ther reference to the Finance Committee of all the matters re-
maining to complete the bill,also to make all alterations neces-
sary to he made in its progress through parliament not affect-
ing the principle of the bill, of which alterations the finance . .
committee is to be immediately apprised by the Dock Solici- ,et
tor, the deputation of the Dock Committee having a discre-
tion as to the necessity of such alterations when the time will
not permit the Finance. Committee to be consulted ; that the
Finance Committee do report from time to time as circuity :', g 3.,,
stances may render necessary, but that this reference isnot",vi,',
to affect the several references upon the Town-clerk's repot'
or the adjitstment of the bill.. ~„, „
The council. then adjourned (at fourt&clock) eleveis'''aiso,„
o'clock this morning, when Mr. Okill's matter will bevarsjis/s9;
•
sidered. -• : • •
:-;f;•es .44
•
• - • !,;11,10
SHEFFIL LI) BA.:ex Cos:mks:v.—A t the
.antual -f0ct,714
ing of proprietors of thi--eompari);; 'held .on Friday'(nit Pot,
a favourable report was
.presented, and a dividen'd ifecl44
of 81 per cent. upon the subscribed_ capital. The ttiiti rep ;J.: 00f
ing directors -were unanimously re-elected. The dividtitVs
was announced payable ou the 17th of Febrttary.—Sheel‘,
Patriot:

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