The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1853-06-07 00:00:00

THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD, TUESDAY, JUNE 7, 1853.

WEDNESDAY, JUNE 1

The committee resumed the inquiry at the usual hour, when
counsel recalled Joseph Grooby, the bandmaster,who repeated
his description of his engagement.
Cross-examined Was engaged professionally, and was ready
to play "The Battle of the Boyne," or any other battle tune.
His most proficient band was the " teetotal" or "confidential"
band No. 1. (Laughter.) They were what might be termed
"good musicians," slow, serious, and sober—but still they
played the most lively tunes. It was childish to ask him whe-
ther he had told any one these bands cost him .ee; and though
he had said he could speak on almost every topic, it was hardly
reasonable to ask him to speak upon that. The learned counsel
ought to know better than to ask him such a question. Did not
himself play either the drum or the trombone, nor on all the vio-
lins at once. The question of the learned counsel showed that he
was no musician. (Laughter.) He sometimes played on the
violins and smaller fry of instruments—the cymbals, cornets,
and those things, and supplied music by contract. His confi-
dential band No. 1 was the best band he had, and the Zoological
band—(laughter)—the band that played at the Zoological Gar-
dens before the wild beasts was the next best; and the third, a
tolerably good 'un, was the temperance or New Church band.
(Laughter.) Could not swear how many voters there were in
confidential band No. 1, but there were fifteen musicians; and
be heard that one them, William Harrison, who was a drum-
mer, and kept the Harmonic Assembly-rooms, at the bottom
of Suffolk-street, voted for Turner and Mackenzie. Could not
swear bow many of the men in the Zoological and New Church
bands voted. Some disputes took place among the other bands
in Liverpool, the men being mixed up in politics, and they re-
fused to play for witness's party, and he bad to select some of
the men from Southport. Told the Music Committee that the
bands were the best military bands. They were no drum and
fife bands, such as accompanied puppet-shows, or like the
Pope's brass band in the House of Commons. (Laughter.)
They were real military brass bands,and not an instrumentation
of fife and drum, fit only for the mob, but a band that played
refined airs of music, and something that was victorious like.
(Laughter.) About twenty other bandmasters sent in estimates
to the music committee besides witness. Stubbs' and Jol-
liffe's bands were inferior ones. They employed lads where
witness employed men; but they got the same price, per
man. It was the New Church band that got alarmed and ran
away, but they became collected as soon as they got among the
more respectable people, and formed themselves into a tolera-
bly perfect pandemonium. i. e. harmonium. (Laughter.) The
other side, Cardwell and Ewart, had bands and colours.
Witness's bands were not distinguished so much by their
colours as by their superior sort of music, and he bad intended
to vote before being paid, but changed his mind after. He was
introduced to the music committee as a Protectionist and a
" brick," but not as a nineteenth century Protectionist.
(Laughter).

Mr. JAMES : Pray, then, from what century do you date your
politics ?—Witness : From the next century.
- - -

Mr. JAMES : Then you are exactly a century a head of every-
body else? (Laughter.) Can you fix upon the date when you
made up your mind to vote for Turner and Mackenzie?—
Witness : As soon as I found it was my interest to vote for the
Protectionists. I was induced to do so by the encouragement
I met with, and (with peculiar gravity) as soon as that par-
ticular impression was formed upon my nature, then I made
up my mind to vote. (Laughter.)

Mr. JAMES: When was this metaphysical process in your
nature effected, Mr. Grooby ?—Witness : I really do not re-
collect.

Mr. JAMES: But surely it is a change you can never have
forgotten 7—Grooby Weil, it was between my first introduction
to the music committee and the election day. My mind during
that period was gradually and imperceptibly made up upon the
matter. (Laughter.) He was (said the witness) by avocation,
a general agent, and bought and sold land and houses, coffee
and other shops, and had a small shop in the confectionary
line. Went a great deal about in the temperance coffee-houses,
being a teetotaller, and did business there. lie believed Joliffe
was drunk when he was turned out of the office. Swore posi-
tively that he was given 4'l per man on condition of voting and
using his influence to procure votes for Turner and Mackenzie.
Those were the words used by Bremner and Tobin, and it was
said in a room in the hearing of thirty persons.

Re-examined : Intended to vote for Turner and Mackenzie,
if everything went as he wished—that was, if he was employed,
and everything went on to his satisfaction.
Thomas Walthew : Was a shipwright and freeman, and
voted for Mackenzie and Turner. Mr. Fisher, foreman to Mr.
B. Jones, canvassed him shortly before the election, and said,
"You know, if you give your vote for Turner and Mackenzie,
you'll get your day's pay and plenty of refreshments;" and
witness said he would vote for them. Witness was at the
Royal Oak on the evening of the nomination day, and saw
Fisher, who said to him, "Tom, you are acquainted with the
freemen about here, bring them all down to Hill's, at the
Sefton Arms, 30 or 40, or as many as you can." Witness went
to Hill's on the pollinr, day, and saw many freemen there,
some 18 or 19. Saw Crosby, Underwood, and Robert Cooke
there, and Parkinson, but not the man who died the other
morning. They had refreshments there—bread and beef, and
anything to drink they liked to call for. After witness and the
others, some 18 or 20. had polled, they went back by the " bus"
to the Sefton Arms, and had more refreshments and a glass of
rum. Fisher did not go with him to vote, but remained behind
to get more men. He was attending the room and ordering
refreshments. Fisher did not mention about the ss. then, but
they all knew that it was to be paid. Leech, a freeman, and
Mr. John Jones, took witness's name down in a book after he
had polled, and told ;him to come to the Sefton Arms on the
Saturday night for the money. Saw Fisher at the dockyard,
and he told him to go and get paid, and said " I am going to
H?nrsfall's to get the money, and I will be there at six o'clock."
edssw—enfitvetoshthilelinSgesf.tonHAermpssidanndethFiinsgherforgatvhee hriemfreshhis_
refresh-
ments Witness
ay
he had.

Cross-examined by Mr. SMITH : Was working at the time
of the election for Mr. Chandler, at five shillings a day, but
worked now for different people, as a jobbing shipwright. Did
not know what made him put down the names of those he saw
at the Sefton Arms, on paper. No one told him to do it, but
he did it to jog his memory, because it was said in Liverpool
that the election was being carried by money, and that the
matter would come to a trial. The paper was a copy of a de-
claration he signed on coming up from Liverpool. They
brought him up last Wednesday, and gave him and a paper.
He had had 335. since. Did not pay for his own ticket by rail,
nor did they agree to give him so much a day in London.

Robert Cooke was a freeman of Liverpool, andseafaring
se
man. Was a ship-keeper, and voted at the last electionßj for
Turner and Mackenzie. Knew Mr. Fisher, Mr. N.
foreman, and saw him on the morning of the election aor s
the
top of Stanhope-street, with a great many round him. He had
not seen him before on the subject of voting, but Fisher then
asked him if lie would go and poll, and witness said he would
at eleven o'clock. Knew Fisher before to be a man connected
with the red party. Went and polled, and then proceeded to
the Royal Oak, and saw Mr. Hallgate and Mr. Inman in a
room, with others, writing. He went to the Sefton Arms on
the Saturday following, with Parkinson, at seven or eight
o'clock, and had the ss. paid him. Parkinson had also ss.
Richard Fisher paid them •; and Parkinson said to Fisher,
_ run.

he man Wt

fins (meeting witness, _.,
and Fisher then paid him 5s
Cross-examined :—His wages were ss. a day. Had always
voted red, and always would.
Richard Cooke was a shipwright, and had voted a number of
years at Liverpool. First voted forty years ago for Leu

and had voted at all elections since, and at the last election for
Mackenzie and Turner. Did not know who canvassed him,
but he went up on his own account to the committee-room,
where business was done at the Royal Oak, Toxteth-park,
where voters met together. There was a bill stuck up over it,
"Mackenzie and .Turner's committee-room." He was there
several times, and remembered Mr. Buckley Jones speaking to
him about his vote. Saw Mr. W. Fisher there the same even-
ing, and Jones asked him who lie was going to vote for, and
witness told him he was going to vote for Mackenzie and Tur-
ner. He was then in the employ of Cato and Miller. Nothing
was said by them about the ss. Mr. Jones said he should not
lose his "day's pay," and he told him to go and see Fisher,
and he would tell him what house to come to. This was the
day before the election.
Cross •examined : Always intended to vote for Turner and
Mackenzie. Did not sell his vote for 55., nor would lie for
20s. Had not the least notion be was doing this, nor had the
other men either. If any one had said to him " Come and
vote for 58.," be would have knocked them down ; ss. did not
pay for his day's work, which was then 6s. a day ' • and the
men who went to vote lost their day's work, and also the work
of the day before. Witness lost 12s. and got only ss. Fisher
knew how witness was going to vote before he voted for Turner
and Mackenzie. True, lie was always a warm "red," and
would not have voted for Cardwell if he had instead of ss.
From what he had seen and read of Cardwell in the paper he
did not like him at all—(laughter)—and that feeling prevailed
in Liverpool with the other men who voted " red." They
were dissatisfied with Cardwell on the navigation laws, and
that was the principal reason they and he voted against him.
By Mr. FRESHFIELD: Told Mr. Jones how he meant to
vote before he said anything about the day's pay. Told the
other men to go to the Sefton Arms, but did not say they
would get the money. Told them to go because lie thought
they would get the money as a present.
Thomas Crossley, a shipwright and freeman : Voted for
Mackenzie and Turner. Was in the Toxteth-park ward, and
went to the Sefton Arms. Was told to go there by Fisher the
day before the election, who said, " You will vote with me to-
morrow." Was working for Mr. Major at the time of the
election. Mr. Major was a shipbuilder. Fisher said nothing
about his day's pay before the election. There was no one at
work at the ships on the Wednesday. Mr. Fisher paid him 55.,
but he could not say if he paid the others the same. Witness
voted for Turner and Mackenzie, but he got the ss. for the
day's loss of work.
Cross-examined : His wages were 6s. at Major's, but he
knocked off on the election day. It was his own fault he did not
go back to wo,k, but he had, perhaps, taken a little too much.
Had always voted red, and intended all along to vote for Mac •
kenzie and Turner. No one had any doubt on which side he
would vote.

THURSDAY, JUNE 2ND

The proceedings opened this morning with the examination
of James Willett, who deposed : I am a freeman and a black-
smiths' striker, of Liverpool. I voted at the last election for
Mackenzie and Turner. A great many of them canvassed me.
I was in the procession on the nomination day.. Mr. Buckley
Jones, in whose place I then was employed, did not canvass
me. I polled from Evan Jones's, in Park-street : nobody went
with me. I walked part of the way, and rode the rest of it. I
did not work at my trade on the polling day. My wages are
about 3s. a-day. I got five days' pay at the end of the week,
having been off one day. I received my wages at my master's
office. The foreman paid me at Williams's public-house. The
name of the foreman who paid me my wages at the end of the
election week is John Gillan. I know Storey; he is a clerk of
their concern. He paid money to the foreman, and he divided
it among all the hands. I did not receive any money from any
body else that week.

Cross-examined : I received wages from the same foreman
who usually pays me.

By the CHAIRMAN: I received 155., and I did not do any
work either on the nomination day or the election day.
Edward Newton : I am a freeman of Liverpool, and polled at
the last election for Messrs. Mackenzie and Turner. I worked
for Brady and Johnson. I voted from no house but my own.
I polled in Toxteth ward about two o'clock. I know the Royal
Oak, but I was not there either on the polling day or the day
before. On the polling day I saw Mr. Buckley Jones in Park-
street, speaking to some parties ; he did not speak to me. I
was paid my wages on the Saturday after the election : I re-
ceived .et 145.; that was for six days. I was paid Bs. a-day ;
I was a day off in the week : they did not pay me for the day I
was off. I had so much piece-work that week it made for both
day and piece-work 41 Ms. I was paid by one of the partners,
Mr. Johnson, who usually paid me. I received ss. that week
from a person of the name of Jones, who keeps the hotel : I
was standing by my door on Sunday when he came up to me,
and handed me ss. I asked him what it was for : he said, for
tht election, of course. I saw him before I polled; and, as I
worked in the next yard, I saw him several throes every day. I
spoke to him the day before the nomination ; and, to the best
of my knowledge, the election was not spoken about. I did
not know he was an active person in the election. I was in his
house sometimes; not the day before the nomination. I had
some conversation with him on the subject of the election he
asked me what parties I intended to vote for; I said for the
Red party. He asked me to come and vote from his house,
and I said I did not know whether I would come or not. We
had not spoken about the money; and when he came and gave
me ss. I was quite taken by surprise. I did not think anything
about it.

Cross-examined : I was not canvassed to sell my vote for
money. The .41 14s. was paid in the ordinary way for the
actual work I had done during that week. I had never made
up my mind to vote for the Red party before the election.
Thomas Benjamin : I am a freeman of Liverpool, and at the
last election voted for Mackenzie and Turner. lam a black-
smith, and during the election worked for Buckley Jones. I
worked on the nomination day, but not on the polling day. I
received 15s. for my week's work. I did not receive a half-
penny at the end of the week. I might have had ss. for polling,
but I left it with the misses of the Oak public-house to pay for
the drink I had. Mrs. Evans told me there was ss. given for a
day's work the day after the poll. It was all over the town ; I
called in and had a pint after my work, and left the ss. to pay
the score. The name of the man who keeps the Oak is Evan
Jones, and when I speak of the misses, I mean his wife.
When I had begun I did not pay for it. When I did not pay
for the liquor, while I was drinking out the 55., nothing was
said. It was the day after the polling I first heard of the ss.
The first drink I had was on the night of the poll, and on
Saturday night I went and told her to keep my ss. for the day's
wage to pay my score.

Cross-examined : 1 had previously a little score at the Royal
Oak, and on the night of the polling I went in and added to it.
I had not promised my vote to any one before the poll, although
I had been canvassed by people from the town. I went to the
polling booth, and voluntarily voted for Mackenzie and Turner.
George Jones lam a freeman of Liverpool, and at the last
election polled from the house of Evan Jones, the Royal Oak.
I went in a 'bus with other voters. A person named Harrison
was there. We went about nine o'clock. After I polled I
went back to the Oak again. I knew Mr. Buckley Jones after
I came back; he was at the Oak. There were other voters
going up from the house to the poll in the same way. They
might go in a 'bus most like, but I don't know. I never saw
Mr. Jones making arrangements to send the voters up. I
remained in the Royal Oak about half an hour, and I only saw
Mr. Buckley Jones once. lam a shipwright, and worked at
that time for Messrs. Mackey and Miller. I had as. a day then;
now I have 65., wages being better. I did not work on the
nomination or election day. I received at the end of the week
a week's pay. I received for a lump job I took for Mackey and
Miller. We worked night and day to finish a job. The week's
wages came to 308. I received that sum from Mackey and
Miller's office. Mr. Miller's son or the clerk pay the wages.
I can't tell the clerk's name. I know a man named Griffiths,
but he never paid me my wages in my life. Griffiths did not
pay me my wages that week. After the polling day I did not
receive any money from any person except the 308.
Cross-examined : I did night-work during the election week.
We were all knocked off, voters and non-voters, on the election
day. In consequence of the arrangement made with our master,
he paid us for the full week's work. The payment of my wages
had nothing whatever to do with giving my vote. I did not
promise anybody once. I did not generally vote " Red."

Cross-examined : I got a day's pay the week following from
Evan Jones, in his own house—it was ss.
By Mr. Paget That was in addition to the 30s. I did not
know I was to get them till the middle of the next week. I
heard of the 53. from other men, freemen, working in the same
yard. Dodd and Simon Croft were parties who told me of the
money. I know Newton. He might have polled " Red," but
I did not see him. I don't know Thomas Benjamin. I know
John Boles ; he is an old man, past labour. I saw him at the
Oak when I was there. He is a ship-carpenter, past work. I
know Richard Richardson, but did not see him at the Royal Oak.
- -

, ~.....
By ➢lr. Smith i It was before the election I first heard of the ss.
By Mr. Ball : Nothing was said to me of the money before I
voted.

Owen Jones I am a freeman, and voted at the last election
for Messrs. Mackenzie and Turner. I voted from the Old Oak.
I am a shipwright, and at the time of the election I was work-
ing for Mr. Buckley Jones; I had at that time ss. a day. I
walked up to the poll. I worked on the nomination day, but
after nine o'clock I knocked off. I did not do more than a
quarter of a day's work on the polling day. I was paid on the
Saturday night by the clerk for Air. Buckley Jones. Storey has
been in the 'habit of paying me for tome time. He paid me 30s.

'on the Saturday night. After I had polled I did not go back to
the Royal Oak ; I went to my own house. I did not receive
any money during that week or the next from any other person.
I was not at the Old Oak that week or the next, except on the
polling day. I did not receive any money for any person at
the Old Oak from any body. I know Evan Jones •, I received
on Saturday ss. for my day's wages. I received it from Jones,
who got it from Mr. Storey. I was not present when Storey
gave the money to Jones. I know Storey grave it to Jones,
because Jones told me on Saturday night. Evan Jones is a
shipwright, and worked in our yard. It was from him I first
learned that I was to have the ss. It was Evan Jones who
gave it me. Storey was in his office at the time. Evan Jones
gave me the whole of my wages into my hand from Mr. Storey.
He said there was ss. for say clay's wages. Evan Jones is a
working man in the yard, like myself. Buckley Jones is the
master ; Storey, the cash-keeper ; and Evan Jones, a workman
like myself, and the keeper of the public-house. Evan Jones
told me the ss. was for the nomination day.
By the CHAIRMAN: I did not get paid from Storey's own
hands. I was a day and-a-half short of my week's work.
By Mr. BALL: Nothing was said to me of paying me for
voting at the election before I polled, but heard of it a quart,r
of en hour before I voted from Mr. Fisher. Had always voted
for Mackenzie and Turner, and had always voted on the same
side. Fisher spoke without me asking any question of him.
By the CHAIRMAN: Fisher said go and vote and your time
will be made good.
By Mr. RODWELL : What Fisher said to me had no eff.?ct
upon my voting. I always intended to vote for Mackenzie and
Turner.
By the CHAIRMAN: Could not say that all the persons in the
yard voted on the same side,
John Foulds : I am a freeman and voted at the last election
for Mackenzie and Turner. lam a shipwright, but I was not
working at the time of the election. I polled from the Old Oak.
I came down from the Town-hall. I saw Mackenzie and
Turner's procession that day at the Town-hall, and part of it in
Great George-street. I know Mr. Evan Jones, who keeps the
Old Oak, and I saw him walking with the procession at that
time. It was a returning body of the procession that was
there, and Jones walked out of the body of the procession, and
come forward to me. I supposed he was leading the party, and
they appeared to be going to his house. He asked me if I was
going to vote, and then would I come and poll from his house.
I said yes, I had made no promise, and I'd as lief go and vote
from it as anywhere else. I did vote next morning from his
house. I went from the Oak to the poll. I went in an omnibus.
Other persons, upwards of twelve or fourteen, were there. The
whole of them were voters, and the whole of them went up and
polled for Mackenzie and Turner. After I had returned from
the poll to the Oak I saw Mr. Buckley Jones in a room. Hr

_..e
William Dod : Was a freeman of Liverpool, andvoted for the
was distributing the favours, red and blue. I don't know if
" Reds," Mackenzieand Turner, and had always voted " red."
that was Mackenzie and Turner's favours. Blue and red meant
Was working for Mr. Cato at the time, on hoard the Laurel, Mackenzie and Turner, I believe. I got two, tine red and one
with four other men. Evan Jones kept a beer-shop. and he
blue. It was not light blue. I knew some of the voters at the
Old Oak by sight; indeed all of them, but did not know their
asked witness if he might put their names down. Ns itness re- fused at names, although I was aware that they were all voters for
-first, but afterwards gave his consent, saying, " We . Liverpool. 1 saw Mr. Buckley Jones do nothing but distribute
may as well give him our names, whether we go to Lis house i favours, and make himself free with the men there. who were
or not." Saw him on the morning he was going to poll. Did
under him. He was in and out of the room several times. I
not work that day, or the day before, or after. Went to the
remained in the Old Oak a couple of hours. Mr.BuckleyJones
Oak on the Saturday following, and received Is. 6d. out of the •
was not there all the time, nor longer than five minutes at a
55., having a little drop of beer there, amounting to 3s. 6d.,
time. I did not receive any money at that time; but on Satur-
day it was deducted, and he squared things. Evan Jones's
day I received from Evan Jones, the landlord of the house, ss.
wife gave him the change.
in two half-crown pieces. I got the money from him in one of
By Mr. SMITH : Always voted red, but voted once for Mr. the apartments. There was no agreement made, and I did not
Ewart. It was not the day's pay made him go and vote, as he ask him for anything. He did
not speak to me, nor did I
would not sell his vote for five times ss. speak to him. Without it was to remunerate me for my attend-
Joseph Underwood: Was a freeman and shipwright of Liver- ance at his house, I cannot tell what the ss. was for. 1 was
pool, in the Canning graving dock. Evan Jones spoke to him appointed to go there on Saturday; it was circulated through-
about his vote, and asked him if he was engaged to go to any out the neighbourhood that the freemen who had polled should
house to vote. Jones told him if he would go to his house and go up there on Saturday and get the money. The freemen who
poll from there he would give him his day's pay. Witness had voted for Mackenzie and Turner. I can't say who told
went accordingly and voted. On the Saturday he went for his me. It was rumoured amongst the neighbours, and I heard it
pay, and Evan Jones gaves him the ss. himself, from many. It was said publicly that we men who had voted
Cross-examined : Went to Jones's house to oblige him. Had should go up to the Old Oak to receive the money we should
always voted " Red," and had made up his mind to vote for have had. We did receive the money. Men who had polled
Turner and Mackenzie. This going to Evan Jones's had not were there while I was present, and I saw Jones give it to about
a bit to do with his vote. nine. They all got the same, I suppose; at all events, they got
Robert Cooke : a freeman and carpenter of Liverpool. Had something. The whole of them I knew to be voters.
voted at two general elections before the last. Was in Toxteth Cross-examined : I first heard that I was to go to Evan
ward, and was in J. Maclane's employment, working on the Jones's on the Saturday before the election. At the time I
ship British Queen. Evan Jones said if he would go to his voted I knew nothing of the ss. I formerly worked in the yard,
house he would receive a day's wages, ss. He told him he was and he was formerly an old fellow-workman and acquaintance.
to poll from there, and he understood he was to have the day's I said that the public report was that the "freemen" were to
wages, 55., for the loss of his time. Had made up his mind to go up to Jones's. I thought they were all " freemen."
vote for Turner and Mackenzie, and if they had put .4/7,000 or By.the CHAIRMAN: When Jones asked me to poll from his
500 guineas in his hands he would not have polled for the other house, he said breakfast was provided at his house, but he said
party. (Laughter.) Jones did not say anything about whom nothing about pay.
he was going to vote for, as witness had told him. Went again Be Mr. FRESHFIELD: The procession I saw in Great George-.
to Evan Jones's in the evening by his own inclination, and to street, with colours and music, belonged to that part of the town.
the Oak on the Saturday to get the money, but did not know
whether he got the ss. or not, because he was tipsy. Thought Richard Richardson :lam a freeman, and polled at the last
be got the ss. but could not say for certain, but found 13d. in election from the house of Evan Jones for Mackenzie and
his pocket on the Sunday. Did not know if it was in his Turner. I was working at that time for Mr. Legg. I was paid
pocket when lie went to Evan Jones's. Could not say if he re- 7s. 3d. a-day., as we were very busy. We polled about 9 o'clock
ceived the 55., for lie was so tipsy that he could not swear it. in the morning, and went to the booth with a great many more,
Managed to get home that night; but could not tell who paid sonic of whom were voters and fellow-workmen. I did not do
him or whom he saw, any work at my trade on the nomination day and polling, day.
I went to the Old Oak on the afternoon of the polling day,
William Harris, freeman and shipwright : Voted for Turner
when Evan Jones was knocking about and making himself
and Mackenzie, and went to poll from Evan Jones's, and was alp eeable I received six days' pay from Legg and ss. from
working at Mackey anti Miller's. Jones was a fellow-workman, "
Jones on the Monday after the election. I received the cash
and asked him if he would vote from his house, as he would be in Mill-street for my day's work. I did not expect it at the
paid for Isis election day, and might as well vote from his house time. No conversation had taken place between us about the
as any other. That was the first he heard about being paid. ss. No one had asked me for my vote. I went to Evan Jones's
It was on the Monday he told him this. At a quarter-past nine because he invited me on the morning of the polling day. I
o'clock on the polling day he went to Evan Jones's, but could told him who I was going to poll for, and Ise invited me, and I
not say if Jones told him when he would have the money. He went to his house, and that was all that took place. got some money from Jones a week after, on a Sunday morn-
ing. Did not see any one else receive the same money. Jones By Mr. Ronweee: The ss. came quite unexpected to me.
gave him ss. He did not ask him to vote, but only to come to Several others were going about the room as well as Jones,and
his house. I rode up to the booth with twenty others.
Cross-examined : Always voted for the "Red" party, but Simon Croft: lam a shipwright. lam a freeman, and at
at the last election but one voted for Manners and Cardwell. the last election for Mackenzie and Turner I was working at
Would not have gone to Jones's if he had not asked him. It that time for Oats and Miller at the rate of ss. a-day. I voted
ias to oblige himvote as a fellow-workman, and the ss. had nothing from the Old Oak between 9 and 10 o'clock in the morning. I
do with .
did not work at my trade either on the nomination or election
Charles Burroughs : Did not vote at the last election, though days. Evan Jones asked me who I was going to vote for. The
on the register. Was foreman to Cato and Miller's, shipbuilders. day before the election I said to him that he might put my
Was paid by weekly wages, hut some he received quarterly, name down, but he was not to depend upon me, for I would
Did not receive any money at the Old Oak at the last election. not promise. I went to his house, and went afterwards to the
Knew Evan Jones, who kept it. Did not see any people being booth in the 'bus with some others. William Dodd was the.
paid money. No one ever called upon him on the subject of only man I knew. He went with me there, and he is a fellow-
his vote. Had voted at former elections, but there was no workman of mine. I thought I saw Naylor at the house. I
particular reason why he did not vote at the last. He had a know Charles Burrows there, but he did not go down in the
vote, but they did not want it. Was asked for his vote, but omnibus with me. I saw Owen .ones there, and others whom
did not give it. They had plenty of votes without bothering I did not know. I polled about half-past 9 o'clock, and after-
him, wards walked about the town, and after dinner in the afternoon
Cross-examined His only reason for not voting was because
I went back to the Old Oak. I saw Buckley Jones in a 'bus in
: Mill-street. I did not see him at the Old Oak. Evan Jones,
he
thoughttho it was not required. Left Jones's at twelve o'clock the landlord, paid me my wages. He paid me the amount f
on polling day, and by that time Turner and Mackenzie 55.-2 s. sd. in money and the rest in drink. That was done ()Tr
were a-head by a large majority. the Saturday. It was for my lost time on the day of the
sardy:4r,;olAnivi,PnaTdc.TrtuTsdElltntOltealsthinmmy
vlhiy"hde,gaa"vde election. Cato
azilqmrigeoi-,;:cVewrriarldreincelvteir. wilgews.: onlyha
it him. for what I worked, and for nothing else. When Evan Jones
By Mr. Feesiteieen : Understood it was a kind of intro- ! paid me the 55., not a word passed. I went to get it for my
' lost time. I asked nobody for it. In the course of the week,.
duction his going to Jones's house, which was just opened, and
a favour on his part to cut up the beef. Witness received 7s. before the election, he told us we should be made comfortable.
a day, and .416 a quarter, at Cato and Miller's. He wanted me to put my name down. There were several
persons from whom I heard that I was to receive ss. I and
The committee here adjourned. Willie Dodd went to get the 55., and we both got it at the same
time. We went there because we had been told by several of
the voters.

Cross-examined : Evan Jones told me to come there. We
were fellow-workmen, and when I said you may put my name
down, I meant I would come to his house, and nothing about
my vote. I have always voted "Red" at previous elections.
By the CHAIRMAN : I first heard of it the last day after the
polling.
Charles Maxwell : I am a shipwright, and was working at
the time of the last election for Messrs. Mackey and Miller. I
am a freeman, and voted for Mackenzie and Turner. I polled
from the old Oak. After the polling, we returned to the Oak :
it was about 3 o'clock when we returned ; I remained till 9
o'clock. Buckley Jones was at the public-house mustering the
men to go off in the onthibusses. He said first to the one and
then to the other, " Will you come—will you come ?" Mr.
Miller paid me my wages that week. He paid me ten days and
a quarter. We were making a day and a quarter each day.
6s. 3d. is the wages for a day and a quarter. The sum I re-
ceived at the end of the week was 16s. 3d. Evan Jones
Paid me on Saturday for the day I was off—that was the polling-
day. He paid me that on Saturday. No person canvassed me,
except some making inquiries. I polled from the Old Oak,
because I was invited to come, and was told that 1 might have
a day's wages.
Cross-examined: I have always voted "Red," and the ss.
did not make me vote for Mackenzie and Turner; I always in-
tended to vote for them. I expected that, whether I voted or
not,. I should get the ss.
By Mr. WILLIAMS:Did you ever know a voter who got
bread, and meat, and ale, and 55. without voting?
Witness ; No, I cannot say that I ever did.
Hermann Lott, a person employed in the printing depart-
ment of the Liverpool Mail office, with reference to the report
of the Amphitheatre meeting of the 3d of April,. and the adver-
tisement connected with that meeting, deposed : I superin-
tended the printing of the pamphlet report; 5,000 were
printed, but Ido not know who paid for them. I occasionally
went to the Central Committee's office to get as many orders as
possible. I received orders from Mr. Buckmaster, Mr.
Williams, and others. I understood the work would be paid
for, and so I was quite satisfied. I was not sanctioned by my
employer to go to the committee-rooms for orders. No one
else was present when I received the orders. Were the work
not paid for, I do not know who Mr. Sherlock would have pro-
secuted for his money. I could not say who were the accre-
dited agents of the association.
By Mr. 'WiLLIA.ms : I never took proofs,to the Constitutional
Association office.
By Mr. BALL: The work we did was chiefly the address-bills
of Messrs. Mackenzie and Turner to the electors of Liverpool.
Could not say whether I was printing for the Constitutional
Association or the election committee of the two candidates.
The addresses were printed from re-print copy out of a Liver-
pool paper.
Mr. Sherlock recalled: This book contains my account
against the committee. 5,000 copies of the pamplet are charged.
I received £2OO from Mr. Bold, but as to who I'm to get
balance from, it is not a question for me to find out. During
the past few months I have applied to the Constitutional Associa-
tion for payment. I have applied to the staff of officials, and I
have applied to Mr. Bold, Mr. Buckmaster, and Mr. Cooper.
The charges in my Book are down partly to " Election Com-
mittee," and the rest to "Constitutional Association, per
H. Buckmaster." 2so is still due. I made a general claim
to Mr. Bold. I have not two accounts. The charge for the
pamphlet Is £26 Os 10d. I did not deliver any bill of particu-
lars personally; bat one was made up, and I believe a message
came to make out the bill immediately. This was done by my
manager and my book-keeper. I applied to Mr. Buckmaster
at the Constitutional Association for payment. I believe all
the men there are honourable men, and so I felt easy and safe.
The items were all placed under one head in the ledger. Neither
Mr. Bold nor Mr. Buckmaster have made objections to the
amounts which I have charged. In my conversation with Mr.
Buckmaster, he intimated to me that the bill had been checked
off. Subsequent to the election I have applied several times
for the money at the Constitutional Office : I applied to Mr.
Bold, but the same parties semed to be acting in two capacities,
and I could not understand the nature of the connection.
When I applied to Mr. Bold, the bill delivered was the subject
of our conversation. Mr. Bold was very kind, and brought
me down .W2OO, and was very sorry that he could not pay the
whole of it. lam not aware that Mr. Bold had gone through
the bill in detail. In a conversation with Mr. Bold on a sub-
sequent occasion, he said that I need not be uneasy, as he
coulpdaryemfeernmt
of the
etoa
account.gentle H
manwehomewn d theotrolndeber nameespons of .
responsible for
the
Horsfall; but as there are several gentlemen of the same name,
I did not know which he meant. I never called upon Mr,
Horsfall.

George Taylor I am a voter for Liverpool ; not a freeman,
but a householder. I am a file-cutter. I am acquainted with
a man of the name of Tobin, one of Ashley and Co.'s men. I
know a person called Bland ; and on the morning of the elec-
tion some one asked Bland and me who we were going to vote
for. Tobin was present at the time. This was m a public_
house. We said we should vote for Messrs. Mackenzie and
Turner. I know MsKeverigan, who was there at the time;
and Bland and me agreed to vote without being paid. We
went and voted on the polling day. We did not arrange to
have any money. After the election, I made application to
M`lieverigan, and asked him whether he would do the same
with me that he had done with the rest. This was a month
afterwards. He said yes. I went there, understanding we
should have a day's pay, the same as the rest. It was Bland
who asked APKeverigan. I polled from a house in Pitt-street.
We went to INPKevengan's house twice, and both times he pro-
mised to give us the money. The second time Bland spoke.
I never received anything.
Cross-examined : When first asked for my vote, I said I
would vote for Mackenzie and Turner. Nothing was ever pro-
mised for my vote, and I never asked anything.
William Coward : I am a householder at Liverpool, and voted
at the last election. I was canvassed by Oxton, and next by
Mr. Huntingdon, a flower-dealer, who canvassed me on the
morning of the election. Mr. Oxton asked if there were any
voters there, and he answered yes. I polled about one o'clock,
and several other persons polled about the same time. I saw
a person named Peter Rice, on the morning of the election, in
Park-place. John Collister was there, and Samuel Cockerel.
I knew Mr. Arthur Davis, who was foreman to M`Keverigan.
Davis spoke to me, and he said, are you going to vote? if you
put your names down, you will have your day's pay. It was
not mentioned who I was to vote for. Ile did not say anything.
more. I did not see any book at that time, but I saw the book
in the evening, when he put my name down. It was at Jones's,
the White Lion, in St. James's-street, that he put down my
name. That was on the day preceding the polling day. I know
the Vine public-house in Pitt-street, and was at the Vine on
the election day before I was at the White Lions where Davis

put down my name on the book. On my way home from the
Vine I passed the White Lion. I saw several persons looking
through the window of the White Lion, but I do not recollect
whether Davis was one of them. I might have seen him, but
I will not be sure. When I went into the White Lion I saw
Davis in the house. It was in the room up stairs. Humphrey
Smith was with him. When I went into the room, I asked
him had he taken our names down ? He said no, but I will.
He took down mine, and the names of two other men with me.
He took down the names for our day's pay. He said we should
get paid, but did not say where we were to go for it, but Mr.
M'Keverigan would see us paid. He told me afterwards that
he would see M`Keverigan at the yard, and see that we were
paid. In consequence of that I went to the yard, and saw Mr.
M'Keverigan, who went into the office and gave me a sovereign.
Rice was with me, and the sovereign was for me and the other
three. I had voted at the time, and I believe the others had.
This was on Tuesday after the election, and we spent the money
among us.

Cross-examined: lam a householder. I have always voted
' " Red," and was promised no money for my vote. After the
election received this money for lost time. I am a publican
and rope-maker.
Joseph Hogan : I am a ship-carpenter, and a freeman of the
borough of Liverpool. At the time of the election I was work-
ing. for Mackey and Miller. I know M`Keverigan, and saw
him on the morning of the election. I don't know that he said
anything to me about polling. I rather think he asked me
about how I was going to vote. I told him that my mind was
made up for Mackenzie and Turner. I worked all that day.
I polled for Mackenzie and Turner, and on Saturday night I
was paid my full wages by Messrs. Mackey and Miller. I must
admit I did receive a day's wages, Is., from Mr. M`Keverigan
on the same night, that of Saturday. I got it from him in the
street. On the morning of the election he promised me a day's
wages. We were together at the time in the neighbourhood of
St. James's Church. There was •no one present. He gave me
ss. for myself; a sovereign was the entire amount given, there
being four of us. We were all together. He gave me the
sovereign, and I gave them each ss. I can't recollect the
names of the other men very well. The others were Thomas
Parkinson, George Turton, and William Turton. I might
have seen Turton since. I have not seen the other man since.
Parkinson is now dead. I did not receive any other sum.
Cross-examined : I had promised that Mackenzie and Turner
should have my vote long before the election. The money I
received several days after the election. Had I not received
the ss. I should still have voted for ;Mackenzie and Turner.
Since 1837 I have voted on the same side.
Mr. BODKIN: Have you ever been paid before, or is this the
first time?
Witness : Once have had money before. At the general
election before the last we had a day's wages. Then I voted
for Mr. Cardwell, having been led to do so from the false
supposition that he was a Conservative. (Laughter.)
Mr. BoniciN : What did you get at Denison's election?
Witness: I will not answer that. I am not prepared to
answer it.
Mr. BonxiN: Did you consider that, in receiving the 55.,
you were being bribed ?
Witness: No, certain!y not.
Mr. FRESHFIELD: Did you vote in consequence of being
offered this day's pay ?
Witness: Decidedly not.

Joseph Hamilton I am a freeman, and voted at the last
Liverpool election. I was canvassed at the last election by
parties for Cardwell and Ewart, bat not for Mackenzie and
Turner. I am a shipwright, and was employed by Mr. M`Keve-
rigan. M`Keverigan never spoke to me about how I was going
to vote. 1 polled from a public-house called the St. George, in
Upper Pitt-street. There were several of us there, and we all
walked to the poll in company. I did not work on the nomi-
nation or polling days. Mr. NPKeverigan paid me ss. of wages
that week, on Saturday evening; he paid me other wages. I
was not working for M`lieverigall that week, but was employed
by Mackie and Miller, for whom I worked the two last days of
the week. APKeverigan paid me the ss. for the election day.
A great many men were working for M'Keverigan. He paid
me the ss. in the counting-house. I understood that there was
ss. to be obtained from the masters for the day we were knocked
off. I understood it was to be paid, but by whom I knew not.
I heard it among the workmen.

Cross-examined : I have always voted for the " Reds," and
would not have voted for Cardwell for
By Mr. PAGET : I recollect Ewart and Denison's election;
did not get any money then. I have a very weak memory, and
do not recollect when I was paid, and when I was not.

_ .
Robert Sergeant : I am a freeman of Liverpool, and voted at
the last election for Messrs. Mackenzie and Turner. I know
the Edgehill Coffee-house, and on the morning of the election
I was met there by Joseph Green, who asked me to vote for
Messrs. Mackenzie and Turner. He said as how lie would give
me ss. if I went down next day. I was to go to Mr. Rowett's
office. We did not say anything in reply, but merely thanked
him. We then, after this conversation, went and voted. We
stopped about an hour at the Coffee-house next day, and after-
wards went to Mr. Rowett's in Water-street. I got ss. from
Mr. Rowett. I had not been working for Mr. Rowett that
week. I worked for myself. When Mr. Rowett paid me the
ss. I was alone with him. It was about two o'clock. Some
people, perhaps five or six, were Waiting outside the office. A
brother of mine was there, and a man called M'Carthy. We
went in one at a time. Ido not know which of the men it was
that went in first. We were told to go in one at a time. I (lid
not see any list or paper in the room. I saw Mr. Green that
day, but did not speak to him. We met him accidentally, and
he did not say anything about us going to Rowett'Z. We met
him in Chapel-street, only about half-an hour before we went
to Rowett's. I (10 not remember Joynson.

Cross-examined : I don't know who Mr. Green is, as there
are a great many Greens in Liverpool. The Christian name of
M`Cartney was Jeremiah.

Jeremiah M`Carthy I am a voter in Liverpool, and am a
ropemaker. I know a man called Thomas Sergeant, and I-saw
a gentleman named Green—a tall, lusty gentleman—in Water-
street on the morning of the election. Several other persons
were along with me. I saw this man called Green go into
Rowett's office, in Water-street. I saw those who were with
me go into Rowett's office. They went in in regular order, one
after another. I went in for William Sergeant'S Is. ; he is a
brother of Robert Sergeant. When I went in Rowatt asked me
what I came for. I told him, and he gave me Is. Hehad
paper before him with what appeared to be a number of names
upon it. I could not tell how many names were upon. that
paper. Before he gave me the 55., he asked me to sign the
name, and when I came down stairs, I gave the ss. L had re—
ceived to Robert Sergeant. I cannot write, so I put my mark
to the name. Robert Sergeant is the brother of William Ser-
geant. Rowett asked me did get paid for carrying colours.
I said yes. He told me that the election would have been over
an hour-and-a-half earlier had it not been for me, as I bad car-
ried away the voters, and would not allow them to poll. I. was
paid for carrying the colours at the Edgehill coffee-house.

It being now a quarter to four, when the Speaker goes to
pr&yers.,.the examination of the witness was closed. The atten-
dance during the day was much less than at the opening_of the
inquiry, and Mr. Turner was present for a very brief period.