The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-05-04 00:00:00

• •
Mr. CoopEß observed thal the proposition of the corporation
to the parish was a fair one—to pie the E. 583) which it was
;toed at the smile time, it was important that
the'toWn iqerk-shimld take effective ineaus to bring to an issue
the que't inn of tll'priym,nt ot poor-rates, for live years' rates
%vomit amount io
.f.:13,001, and if the parish should be unsuc-
cessful, many who ougtit to have contributed to the consequent
increased rate,inignt be leaving.
The Towri-C LERK said, on his part there should be no delay.
The MAYOR -put the queitions, and it was agreed to hand the
Arco rents Mentioned by Air. Currie to the reporters, and the
procMAings of the committee were then confirmed.
The proceedings of the Market Committee, Town Hall Com-
mittee, Education Committee, Garden Committee, and Church
Expenditure Cominirtee, none of which were of public interest,
were then severally read and confirmed.
COURT OF REQUEST'S COMMITTEE.
The TowN-ota:ak read the following report:—

REP9RT.
" That the committee haveconsidered the petition relating to
the Court of Requests, with the letters accompanying the same
referred to them.
" That upon the subject of the petition they have been at-
tended by John Quayle, Esq., doctor of medicine, and surgeon,
who sought an interview with them, as 'evidence on the allega-
tion in the petition, of the necessity of a change in the consti-
tution of that court, was, allowed to state his complaints against
the decisions of that court, in cases of his own, which, on his
former application, by way of appeal from the coissioner,
the committee could m m
not by law entertain.
" That the complaints of this petitioner, upon his own show-
ing, appeared to the committee to be without any foundation
whatever. (Hear.)
"That whether the constitution of the Court of Request could
be improved, acid the legal commissioner with advantage re-
lieved, by the addition of a limited number of burgessess to be
summoned to sit with him as commissioners, or, under his asses-
sorship, to act as a jury, is a question which has had the anxious
consideration of the committee, and will continue to have their
best attention; desirable as it is, not only that justice should lie
done, but that it should be administered as far as practicable to
the perfect satisfaction of the public.
"'That the committee, have, however, without coming to any
opinion at present upon this important question, deemed it very
unadvisable to submit any bill to Parliament on the subject
until greater experience of the working of the constitution un-
der the act of 1836 shall be obtained; and more especially, as
it is probable that if the bill for the abolition of improvement
for debt should pass into a law it will become necessary in the
next session to go to Parliament to extend the powers of the
Court of Requests to process of execution beyond the mere
goods of a defendant, so as to reach debts and other effects
comprising, under reasonable limitations, the future property of
the debtor.
" That it may be proper to state inthe present report that the
inquiries of the committee have produced the followim,s infor-
mation. By the Official return prior to the application in 1836,
for the present Court of Requests act, it appeared that the
average number of causes amounting to 40s. and nett exceeding
£2 annually disposed of in the superior court of time borough at
various stages at considerable eXj7ense, compared With the
amounts sought for, was less than £5OO. By the official return it
appears that, the jurisdiction of 40s. and under £5 being opened,
to the Court of Requests by the act of 1836, the superior court
of the borough and other courts still being open to suitors in 13
urouths prior to the Ist of December last causes of Ills. and
under £5 to the number of 2528 Wei e disposed of by the Court
of Requests."
That report also received the confirmation of the council.,
THE BoIIOUGII COURT.
Tire TOWN-CLERK next read his report respecting this court,
as follows :
" The town-clerk reports that the period is now arrived for
gising notice of the second reading of the bill on the subject of
the Borough Court, lighting clauses, Observatory, and Kirkdale
and Everton boundaries.
" The progress of the bill for the abolition of imnrisonment
for debt does not enable the town-clerk to snake any farther re•-
port on that subject in connexion with "the Borough Court, by
which will be understood not the Court of Requests, but the supe-
rior court of the borough.) But whatever course the bill on the
subject of imprisonment for debt may take, the principal ob-•
jects in the Borough Court must remain, viz., of obtaining from
the legislature provisions for preventing' vexatious removals
from the Borough Court to the superior courts, at periods when
the proceedings below have nearly arrived at realm it v.
" At the present time the consideration by the legislature of
the general subject of local courts, and the pressure of business
at the Liverpool assizes, make it reasonably probable that the
advantages desired for the Borough Court may be obtained,
and the measures proposed have the decided support of Mr.
.Cresswell.
"'The usefulness of this court to the public, under the direc-
tion of the assessor, and juries selected from the burgess roll,
coupled with the cheapness of the proceedings, entitles the court
to every attainable improvement.
"'Phis and the other subjects of the bill--viz., proposed Ob-
servatory, and Everton and Kirkdale Ward boundaries—would
not have been deemed sufficient of themselves for a bill. The
Observatory clause will require some direction from the council
alter the dock proceedings are read."
The MAYOR inquired if it was the pleasure of the council to
confirm the reports?
Mr. Alderman FREME moved, that they he printed and cir-
cu:ated : they were calculated to remove much prejudice which
existed against the Court of Requests, which was seconded by
Mr. Councillor Mason.
The MAYOR and several other gentlemen suggested, that they
should be given to the reporters and printed.
Mr. Councillor HENRY LAWRENCE suggested, that they be
offered to the gentlemen of the press for those who chose, to
take them.
[As a matter of courtesy we have inserted them.l
The proceedings of the committee were then confirmed.
DOCK COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS.
Amongst other things the promise of the Brunswick commit-
tee to bear half the expense of the erection of an observatory,
was rescinded.
Mr. Councillor LASSEL said, the council had confirmed:the
order for its erection, and the dock committee had been request-
ed to contribute, but whether they did or not, the council was
pledged to erect the observatory. He trusted the council would
not rescind that former resolution, having voted away £3001)
for thatmere taking down of the corner of a street. It had been
intended to have erected an observatory on a large scale if the
(lock committee had subscribed, and one worthy of the town.
He had the other day seen a cousin of his, who sent his chrono-
meter to one manufacturer, who said it was in error three min-
utes and nine seconds, and another said its error was two min-
utes and 55 seconds, and the :fifference between them was equal
to 67 miles Of longitude, which was really very important.
Mr. EARLE said it was quite lamentable that argument was
necessary, at the present day to show the necessity of an obser-
vatory. There were here two estates the eerpoiate and •the
dock—the one with a revenue of £200,000 and the other
£lOO,OOO a year, and yet they required strong solicitation to
erect and maintain au observatory in a great town like this.
What was money worth except for what it gave them: or was
it only to be looked at in their coffers. He could again only use
the language which he had before used, that it was really con-
temptible. (Laughter.)
The TOWN-CLERK Said, the difficulty in which he stood was
this. At the time when it was supposed the. Duck Committee
would contribute, he bad framed a clause in the intended bill,
assuming that they would contribute equal proportions. Was he
to strike that clause out, and to act on the assumption, that the
council alone would provide the necessary funds ?
Mr. Councillor PLATT said, he had no doubt if the clause re-
mained the council would be relieved of much' Of the expense
by private subscription, for it would he generally felt to be of
great importance in a maritime place like Liverpool.
Mr, Conncillor HORN ay had waited to hear some member of
the Dock Committee explain why they had-rescinded their re
solution to subscribe, for he thought there could be no expendi-
ture of money so useful to the dock estate and the interests of
navigation. He thought it incumbent on some members of the
Dock Committee to state the reason why they would not bear
some portion of the expense. Whatever benefitted navigation
must benefit the dock estate, and therefore it was more incum-
bent on them to subscribe than on the corporation. It was an
institution which was very much wanted—it appeared if the
corporation did not undertake to provide it it would not be ob-
tained. He, therefore, for one, would vote that. the Town-
clerk be instructed to take measures to enable the corporation
to erect it.
Mr. Alderman EvANs said if his friend Hornby had attend-
ed to the circumstances he would not have been surprised that
none of the Duck Committee had risen, for the gentlemen on
the other side had risen so rapidly, like so many flashes of
lightning, that no person on his side could interpose. But, with
regard to Mr. Earle's observation—to the freedom with which
he was using the word " contemptible"—
Mr. EARLE —Measures, nut men, sir. (A laugh.) . •
Mr. Councillor EVA NS.—Yes, he knew; but measures were
so often confounded with men, that it might really lead to. Very
unpleasant occurrences. (A laugh.) For instance, if here-
after they happened to come out of gentlemen who were not
quite considered privileged, these things and the exsinple
might lead into what they should all wish to avoid. (A laugh.)
With regard to the large incomes of the corporation and the
dock estate, they existed in air, for they were all appropriated by
anticipation. The wealth of either of the corporation or the
pocks might be seen anywhere but in their coffers. They had
it constantly mentioned there by the Town-clerk and by the
chairman of the finance committee, that they were exceeding
their income, and yet they were told now, that, like misers,
they were gloating over the shining metal in their coffers. He
believed that to he far from the case. Whatever might be the
value of an observatory—and be did not deny it—he considered
the test of that value was not shown by the conduct of either
the mercantile associated bodies of the town or the individual
merchants. .The whole expense was quite within the range of
a small subscription, but, as Mr. Bolton had said, with regard
to churchtnen, they looked, to the public purse; and they (the
council) heard nothing now but of the. corporation and:dock
estates, as the means of supplying. all 'kinds of insprovernats.
It was quite notorious, that where the least encouragemeralPias
given to look to public resources, private contributions werei
given up. An observatory was an object which ought to Kb 'the
peculiar care .of eminent merchants,
.great shipowners, and
scientific men, but had they made any attempt towards attain-
ing such an object?' He had heard nothing of any public
meetings,, but all at once there was a direct application to the
t le he could give them an
else--of
;re,
vwoiltulintraegi
yarp•dritno.e tphe
,destruction —for it was
ni) nothingP
instance of the effect produced by holding out the least hope of
assistance from either government or any constituted body. In
Dublin, during the period of the Irish parliament, there was
what was called 41. House of Industry which had its origin in
othe)
per annum ;. but, luckily, they got the Irish House of
voluntary principle.. It was supported admirably with £3
mons to make a grant, and the subscriptions fell to £248 a year.
Gv
m-
If they went on originatingmatters of this sort, they might never
hope for a single guinea subscription. But, with regard to the
observatoriesdwil
i
houndduc ducks havingb build
() ht'he a
yod more
not
thanconceive
they
thatwere t
thoe
eievperae
nautical or marine college, or supply nautical or marine infor-
mation fur the whole world. Every thing might be brought to
bear constructively, but the truth was, they ought to look to
the docks merely as the addenda to the river—as pools. of water
merely to float the ships and make up the deficiency of the
Mersey. They never could have gone to parliament to obtain
these docks, had they at first asked for an observatory or any
other matter not immediately necessary to making the docks;
if they had, most likelyt hey never Would have had the docks at all.
Mr. Councillor CURRIE regretted very much that the Dock
Committee should have felt called upon to rescind the former
resolution. Notwithstanding what had fallen from his friend
over the way, he thought it very desirable that an observatory
should be established in Liverpool, and therefore nothing but
the circumstances of that day would lead him to oppose the:in-
structions given to the Town-clerk. He thought that,the cost
of an Observatory if it was to be at all worthy of the town,
would he £5OOO a year to keep it up. ("No," £500.) It would
cost £5OOO to build it, and If they were to have first-rate instru-
ments, with the salary of the astronomer, it would by degrees
amount to a very large sum. He did not think the corpora-
tion was in a situation to spend that sum. They had enough to
do with the funds that were entrusted to them at present, and
until they got rid of the heavy expenditure of the custom-house,
they had nothing' to spare.
There would be time, hereafter,
probably within the next two or three years, when the subject
might be brought forward with more fitness and advantage.
He 'toped the council, finding they were not supported by the
ducks, would postpone the measure; and be trusted that they