The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1838-02-23 00:00:00

UI! LIvERI ot.)1,

alteration, that "they , are impressed with the belief that the
government _might devise stone means of snip/Wit-4 for the de-
Mr. Councillor. BLACKBURN shortly after said, on second
thoughts, he. would move that the concluding clause be altoge-
ther omitted. He thought that would be sutlicieut-without any
alteration.

Mr. Alderman
.SH TEL seconded the motion. •
. Mr. Councillor. RA tasnEs believed there could be no objec'7,
Lion at all to this, for it Was a clatise on which there was a consi-
deraole difference of opinion.
The motion was then agreed to. •
The MA YON said they now came to the vote whether the me-
morial as now altered be adopted?
Mr. Councillor 11 LAWRENCE wished to'express his dissent
to many of the arrangements of Mr. Rowland Hill's plan; but
.he did not wish to divide the council on the subject.
The MAYOR presumed then, with the ohjeciton taken by Mr.
Lawrence, the memorial was unanimously passed. Agreed to.
It was then agreed to that the petition should be presented to
the Commons by the memi.ers for the borough, and that in the
Lords it should be presented by Lord Brougham, and that Lord
Ashburton be respectful tequested to Support it.
FEES or THE E‘mocoti COURT, 8:c.
The TOWN-CLERK said, under the municipal act the council
of the boroogh were required to settle the table of fees for the
clerk of the peace, the registrar of the borough court-, and the
clerks of the Magistrates. A letter had been received from Mr.
Phillips, on behalf of Lord John Russell, stating that •his lord-
ship had sent tables of fees to the several borough councils ;
that he had received tables of fees from the officers of other
boroughs. He now sent a-set of tables to the council of Li-
verpool, with a request that they would take them into consi-
deration, and submit to hiss lOrdship AC propriety orate charges,
either as shown by his own labies, or by 'The tables of the Offi-
cers acting together for the different boroughs. He suggested
that the tables be referred to ttre borough court committee.
It was then agreed to that the report should be referred to the
borough court's committee.

REPORT OF THE COURT OF JUSTICES AND GAOL COMMITTEE,

The TowN-eifins. read this report, in nhich some alterations
were recomnietided in the prison discipline. Amongst other
things they recommended a restriction of visitors to vagrants in
gaol. By the present rules,. vagrants are permitted a -visitor at
the end of one calendar mouth, but the committee recominend
that no visitor be allowed until after the expiration of three
months; vagrants for a less periodthan three months would
thereby be prevented having any visitor whatever, but after the
'first three months one visitor would be allowed monthly. In the
rule respecting visitors to debtors, an alteration was proposed
which' would have the Cdfct of preventing the admission of
visitors to debtors on Sundays altogether, unless by order of •
justices in particular cases. The justices and the committee
also in their report recommended that the system .of OM:Winn ,
be iminedialvly commenced. at theprison and in order to effect
this, they stated it would be necessary to fit up a school•room,
work-room, and dormitory, for ,the juvenile offenders. The sot-
veyor had furnished a plan of those alterations, and estimates
the expense of which would be £145. :The plan and estimate
the justices and committee recommended to the council for
adoption. They further reported, that under their direction;'a
correspondence had taken place with the Secretary of State on
the suhject of diminishing the expense of the removal of trans-
port convicts, anti referred the council to extracts from a letter
add-essed by the Clerk of the. Peace to the- Secretary of,
.State,
on the 23.1 becember last, and froM the reply of slr. Phitlipps
thereto, dared the, 10th instant, which explained the bearing of
the question. The extracts read were nearly as follows,:—First,
the Clerk of the 'Peace to the Secretary of State. " YOur lord;
ship is aware from the claim made on the government by the
corporation fur the expenses of the removal of convicts to the
port of embarkation how heavy that expenditure is: and it is
with a view to diminish this charge upon the country. thal,l.auar
directed now to apply to your lordship.
" The number ot transport conv.cts. removed from this bo-
rough during the year, from the Ist July, 1836, to th,e 30th June,'
1837. is 156. and the cost of and attemling the removal £621 176,.
I ain infortned that the number of transport convicts removed
from the count of Lancaster (including this bhrough) avera.gis.
500 a year.
" I am so instructed; that vessels are from time to time char-
tered (rain this port forum use of government, in the convey-
ance of transports from Dublin, and other ports id Irelaro);
and that such vessels leave this port in, a complete state, and fit
fur the immediate reception of
" state these circunistances with a view of bringing before
your lordship far consideration, whether an arrangement is prac-
, ticahleor advisable, making the port of Liverpool a. placaof
,embar katton fur the. cOuntY of Lancaster; and for such of the
adjoining'comities,as it may be deemed expedient to include in
the arrangements; or in connexion With the present establish-
Anent, in' the ports of Ireland. The scheme, if practicable,
pears to hold out the prospect of a great s:tving in expenditure."

" S. M. PHILLIPS, ESQ., TI) THI4 SIA
" Dated Whitebait, 14th Feb. 1838.

" With reference to the removal of prisoners under sentence
of transportation, I am to inform you, that Lord John Russell
thinks the making Liverpool the ..pitme of embarkation for pri-
soners from the county of Lancaster would .be open to many
ohjectious, as well on the ground of inconvenience as of in-
creased .expense; and he cannot therefore recommend 'such a
Measure. In totter to relieve those boroughs in which a rate
in the nature of .a county rate is raised, the mivern went has.
agreed to reimburse them the amount expended in the convey-
ance of prisoners under vutence of transportation; and Lord-
John Russell concludes, that the horough of Liverpool
the benefit of this arranginent. The government has a plan
under consideration for taking into their own hands the convey-
ance of prisoners under sentence of transportation, win& all
boroughs will be-relieved from any charge forlhis service."

- -
.The report further stated, that the justicei end I he commitiee
had• taken into consideration a communication of the 15th inst.
from the secretary of state in the mayor, on the important sub-
ject of the eression ,if a new prison, and or the exteusive altera-7
tion, additions, and improvements a'ready approved of by the
Owned with respect to the present buildiogs, together with the'
.report of Captain Jelib and of !tie law officers tit the crown on
separate confinement; and that. they hail appointed a sub-coot.
init,tee to draw un.a, reply to rh.t eommunication and. reoort,
AO would again tiring the
_subject before the council at their
Meeting on the 7th of March. They then went on to report,
that au application hart been made from John Martindale, in-
spector of hackney coaches, for some reinuneration for his ser-
vices in collecting fines, and Ihe'y recommended that some al-
lowance should be Made, on security being given by the inspec-
tor for the due discharge of his duty in the collection.
The 31 A volt theiionseryed, perhaps the council would adopt
the report as far as would be mentioned by the Town-clerk,
omitting terrain parts.
The Towm-ct.iiiiic said the subject which was already fully
betore the counCil,• was the alteration in the rules of the gaol.
it had been recominanded by the justices esti approved by the
secretary of state. • •
The M A rim, as a matter of form, would put the. question,-
whether the rules be approved and adopted, when
Mr. 131.acicBURN inquired whether it was necessary, in point
Of fact, that the count il should give its sanction to them.
The TOWN•CLKUK replied in the affirmative.,
Mr. BLACKBURN would then ask was it lair that the council
should he called upon to giveitd sanction to such rules untnerely
hearing them once rea't over. They could not give an enlight-
ened and intelligent sanction td them without having other
means of becoming familiar with theist. He must admit, that
he could not conscientiously give a sanction to them till he knew
what they were. Their giving a sanction to the rules of course
implied, that they recommended them. lie should, therefore,
propose, that the confirmation be postponed to the next meet-
ing tillthey.had considered them. He felt the importance of
this rule uu former oscasions,, but hail been unwilling to. appear
fastidious or factious; but he thought it desirable, that they
should take some means of obtaining access to the reports of the
magierates, whieli.were vary' important. By the proposedrule,
v.igrants were not permitted a visitor until alter the expiration
or three Months, and he inquired whether that was an ahiolute
rule, or whether the justices had power to dispense with it.
That rule snowed the necessity. that they should have a know-
ledge of what they sanctioned. He owned his own inability to
give an inteliigent sanction to such rules without knowing what
they were.

The TowN-cl.sex replied, that the justices had the power in
all cases of granting orders for the admission of visitors.
Mr. BLACKBURN was desirous that the council should give
an enlighleneit and intelligent sanction, and he thought no in
convenience could result from the delay of the. confirmation
until that day fortnight.
The MAYOR said, perhaps Mr. Blackburn would permit the
Town-clerk:
• The TOWN-CLERK said that means had been taken to put the
members in possession of printed copies of the gaol reg-ti Minns,
after which they had agreed to a renort which he read. and which
related to the Sunday visiting of debtors, and the ill effects of,
any interruption of -divine .service, and also the restriction of
visitors to vagrants and criminals. In consequence of those
reports, made so long since as the 22nd Nov., those rules bad
been adopted and sent for,the approval of the Secretary of Stain
which had ended in his lordship fully approving of the altera-
tions in these rules. Every care had been takeu to have the
conned fully instructed respecting them.
Mr. BLACK BURN again inquired whether in all cases whatever
the visiting justices had power to dispense with the rules relating
to the visiting of prisueets.
The MA you replied—certainly. MI the members of •the
council hail power to refer to the reports of. the justices; it
would be attended with some inconvenience if the rules were not
passed.
Mr. BLACKBURN then withdrew his amendment, and the

rules received the cnufirination of the council.

The TO%VN-CLERK said the next subject was the proposed im-
provements in the school-room, work-room, and dormitory, the'
expense of which will be about £145. . . .
The M Avon put this question, which also received the sanc-
tion. of.theyouncil.
The TowN.cr.airk said the next subject was the removal of
transport convicts. The council was now in possession of the!
letter from himself to the Secretary of State, auirtheireply
thereto.
Mr. Councillor J. N. WOOD said it appeared- frOm what then
Town-clerk had said, that unless they had a borough rate they,
could not be relieved from the expense of the traustulasion'Of
convicts.
The TOWN-CLERK said he had stated that was an objection,
but it must give way. •
Mr. Councillor J. N. Woon.—Will the council be.relieved
foul the expense ?
The To%VPI-CI.EeK thought the objection that they 'ought 'first
to have a. borough rate was not tenable; and• that they sturtild.
get over it.
1%.1r. Councillor J. N. Wooti.—Lord John Russell has • not
expressly stated his object tots.
The Towtsi-ct.istra.--No; his objections ore eenetal.
Mr. CiattiE thought the auswer of Lord John liusnell vas
not one; that they could sit down dissatisfied with. It was due
to them lo he relieved from the payment of this transport trm.
nej; even though they had no borough rate it ought nut to fall
on them. And, although Lord John Russell might say that it
was inexpedieut. far. reasons which he did, not take the trouble
to state. they had a right to expect that shipsasltoitthled
he fitted
lip het e for the conveyance of convicts to C rk, in order that
their expenses might be as light as possible. The Suitt fur con-
veying convicts to Woolwich, which they were expense
of, was as large as front IA to £4 10s. per head, and he hoped a
proper representation would be made, so that some alteration
should be effected, and that the Town-clerk would not intermit
in his exertion to have it remedied.
Mr. EA It LE said Lord John Russell pretended to a reform-
ing minister. but that did not give them a favourable Opinion of
him as a reformer, and he hoped the county magistrates would
take up the subject, for it would be as great a relief to the
county as the borough, and prevent the continuance of the pre-'
sent as stein of sending ux) convicts into the country merely to
serve the London shipowners—Mr. Young and others. -
Mr. Councillor BI11131( Pala it was more economical In'send
convict ships from here than from Ireland ; and if there was a
tender to he made, he certainly would lender for £2 a head less
fur any ship of his. or any merchant's, to sail from Liverpool
rather than. from Cork. The same wind which carrie.l the
set out to Cork would carry it out, to ea;s ;toil for want rtf thai
-wind afterwatils the ve6sel, might be clet.iithed 'some tirrie dt
The TOWN CI.ERK said-
the torins'useil by tritd-3:6lifortvspil
were, that he thought that making Liverpool a placeof embark-
ation for transports would he inconvenient as well as expensive.
Mr. Councillor BIBBY —Then lie is in error.
Mr. Councillor liisNity LAWRENCE said he was instructed
tbat English convicts were Out sent to Cork; that only Irish

convicts were sent there. Bitt they ought to secure the shipping
trout this port as much as p.,sstble. • •
The MAYOR said he might obserie that the answer of Lord.
John. 4ussell was very unsatisfactory -to the french- of tnagis,
trates,:;and if the council -,.va'dko of that opinion they would
perhaps refer it back to the bench' of magistrates, that cotninu-
iiicate4hat opinion to them, for the TOwn•cleuk to confer with •
Lord:dohn livssetl respecting it. • .
Mr.: Aldertitan said the pirsent system'apneared the
toast objectionable that could be imagined. Convicts were now
seat frOur Liverpool to•Woolwichfor.Portstnouth, or Plymouth,
and the.o round the island of Great Britain, for nu other reason
that he could discern but to increase expense. The convicts
might easily be sent to Dublin. The present was the west ex-
pensive and inconvenient mode that could be adopted, .and him
could not untierStand any principle that could produce it except
to assist stone "jobbine concern in or near London. For he
could not find men acting so absurdly or so contrary to common
sense, without sonic motive.
Mr. Alderman Beni' moved that the subject be referred back
to the justices and the gaol committee, the reply of Lord John
Russell being unsatisfactory.
' Mr. Councillor Woon seconded the motion, which was unani-
.
monsty adopted.
• . The Towts-CLERK then said, passing over the next subject.
he wont(' call the attention of the council to the recommendation
to allow Mariiudale some remuneration foe his additional ser-
vices ,in the collection of tines. A memorial was read from
Martindale, and a recommendation from Mr. Hall, stating
that he had .cullected the fines with-much diligence and activity.
The 'application was referred to the finance' committee.

-4 BRBCTION OF A NOV BOROUGH GAOL.
The TOWN-ciEttx than read -a letter received from Mr. Phil.
lipps,. ou behalf of Lord John Russell, dated the 15th instant,,
in whichit was staled that his lordship had received a very full
and satisfactory report, upon the state of the BoroughGwl, from
Captain Jebb, who was directed by -his lordship to inspect the
gaol, and CoMmonteate with the mayor and the visitiog justices.
Also that his lordsh'.p hail directed theta copy of Captain Jelib'S
report .be transmitted to the mayor, with the request that he
would submit it to the town-council for their consideration,; par-
reqoesting their attention to that part of the report, in
which Captain Jebb states his opinion that " all the interests
coucerned would, in the end, be best studied, were the local
authorities to regard the occupation of the present gaol, and the,
contract-with the county for the custody of some of their prison;
ers, as ::temporary measures, and set iously to entertain the
;question of building a new prisoo, on an improved principle, as
•soott•as any existing difficulties may be removed." The letter
lutther stated, that Capt. Jebb had informed Lord John Rus-
-sell .that, the council were advised:that some doubts might be,
eetceppined as to the legality of.the•individual separation of Poi;
• sowers; and that his lordship thought it might be satisfactory to
tfi6 ethinCil to receive a (0,,y, of an opinion of the law officers of
the r-innvil upon a case submitted to them, as to the power of the
secretary of state to sanction regulations submitted. to him for
approval, whichprovided for t heindividual separation-of prison-
ers. '..The letter requested the mayor tO bring before the council
the subject which now-must immediately presses, namely, the
temporary alterations, which are necessary, previously to the
building Ora new gaof.
Th 6 TOWN-s:i.s.ttic than read Captain Jebb's report relative
to the Borriugh Gaol, which he had addressedfrom Birmingham
to Mr. Phillipps, on the 6th of January last, as follows:
`,s;Sir,—l have the honour to acknowledge the receipt of your
letter of the 14th ultimo, enclosing copies of -a correspondence
which ..bas taken place relative •to the Borough Gaol at Liver-
poid, and. conveying the orders of Lord John Russell that I
should visit the gaol, and report-upon it:with reference to the
several statements contained in the letters which have passed
upon the subject. •
reply I beg to state-that, in compliance with his lord-
ship's:Wish, I obtained an interview with Captain Williams,. the
inspector of prisons for the northern district, previous to leav nig
London, who personally gave me all- the information in has
power; and I than took the earliest opportunity, which toy
OtitieS in connexion with other boroughs permitted, of proceed-
ing, to. Liverpool.' I there waited upon the mayor, who wits.
, good enough to accompany me to the gaol, and to afford me
; every facility for inspecting it, and at. his request I subsequently
attended a special meeting of •the visiting justices, at which a
copy of the last general report ',Nine adjourned.Qoarter Sessions,
(held by the justices on the sth December, - 1E137,) relative to
the prison, was placed in my hands, as a document essential to
the consideration of the question. I afterwards inspeiled the
New Bailey Prison -at Kirkdale, tOwhich.a.proportion of the
tnale'prisoners from the borough are coasinitted under a coat rac t
with the county.
" I bow beg to submit for his lordship's consideration the re-
sult of my inquiries. -'r he following,appeas to me. to be the
main points embraced by thecorrespontlence, • 1 .
"Ist. Whether the construction and present state orthe
Borough Gaol is such as will admit of au efficient system of
•Prison disciipline being enforced—or- whether it is capable of
tientg altered with a view .to improvement in discipline, Or so
enlarged as to accommodate all the prisoners committed within
the jurisdiction of the borough; involving also the qUeitioti of
building a new gaol?
"-IL- 'Whether any or what difficulties stand in the way of,
or are likely to impede, the erection of a new gaol, should' the
local authorities he disposed to build •one ; and Whether any
misapprehension exists as to.the nature or extent of those tlif6-
"cuities,:as effecting. the rd.(' within which a new gaol might
be ready for the reception..of prisoners?.
Whether the alterations and additions proposed to the
onotigh Gaol, are absolutely required for present purposes, and
:holier the outlay of a; large sum of money upon them tr. ight
not affect tine question of building a new prison, which is stated
to be extremely desirable ?
" Report. With reference to the first question, as to whether
the construction of the .Borough .G4Ol wit! admit of an efficient'
system of prison dicipline being carried into affect, or whether
it can be altered, or whether it would be More ekpedient to
build' a new one; I beg to state that the present building having
originally been laid out, with a view to the application of a sys-

• •
tem- itasid on a classification of prisoners, the general arrange-
ment and disposition of the several parts of it, and of the inte-
riot, are such as will only admit of certain modifications of that
system being carried into effect.
• " now to f.". 0 is .n or,pr.ltimot:on to the
silent 'system, and .1. have much pleasure in stating;•irt eonfir-
inationvolibe report wade to his lordship in November last,
this discipline, as far as the means extend for enforcing it, ap-
peared to be carried on in a very satisfactory manner; and that
the interest taken by the visiting justices in the affitirs of the
niison, hacked as it has been, by the vigilance and activity of
a very able governor, has produced those favourable results on
the
general management of it which might be expected.
" fhe weans, however, do not exist for carrying out this sys-
tem with proper effect, and, to a considerable extent, the evils
which confessedly arise from the association of prisoners are
If necessity imposed and submitted to. . •
" to support of this assertion, it will only he necessary to ad-
vert to the fact of there having been 444 prisoners in confine.
Went at one period in the last year, and 443 at another period
in the preceding year, and that the total.number of cells in all
the different wards, for their separate confinement by night,
which, it vvili be admitted, is indispensable to any rational sys-
tem of discipline, is only 354. But this evil will present itself
in a still stronger light, if reference is maile to the accompany-
ing return, (Appendix A,)
.which shows the disposition of the
iiiisoners at 'he period first alluded to (the 26th Aug., 1831,)
and the occupation of the cells that day, which it appears was as
follows, viz.
cLAss.

PnisoNgns. CELLS.
27 confined in 14
49
69 . . ...... 36
32
74 • ..... • • ••• • 31
45

25,

, . . Total Prisoners, 321 Cells,
and that the iemainder of the rgtnnin,der of the cells were dig•
pused of as fpllows . '

cl,Ass. PRISONERS. CELLS.
1 ' ' ' ' 12 13
. . . . . . .
8
281 . . ' 14
39
. . ... , ...,
lif 40 .
.. „.. ,
12 ,20 . .. 27 .
. . ,
13 Eiad 14 - :

12• 1'
," The former "staiemennl wing.. that 321 prisoners were
placed, in 163.ce115, and the latter that 12,3 prisoners Might have
confined in separaiecells; and that 68 cells or more might have
beet vacant; forcibly exhibiting a practiCal inconvenience,
arising partly out ()tithe construction of the building, and partly
froin.the system of classification whir h cau,•es some wards to be
crow. led to excess whilst others are comparatively uniiccupied.
But even where piisOners tire. hidged in separate celli, there
exists in prison the utmost facility of communicating
through large ventilation hOles, which open froin'each cell into
the narrow passage which runs bet Ween them;' by making, use
of•which a conversation Might be kept up almost in a whisp-er.
In either case, therefo're there is a limit to that unrestricted in,
tercourse which it is so desirable to interrlic(..

. _
• • : •
" From a consideration of theie facts it would appear that to
carry on atiysystein of prison discipline worthy of an enligtened
nation, the present l_lorough Gaol would require to be so en-
larged as to afford the means -of separate confinement by night
ofall. the prisoners within it, making also that due allowance of
surplus accommodation which an adherence to the existing sys-
tem of clasSifiCation might `render necessary; it would be,re-
quisite also to alter the mode of ventilating the cells, so as to
cut off the cominunicat ion between them, afforded by the present
plan..
"The former' difficulty, with respect to- numbers, migt.t,
hnwever, he partialty obYiated 5y making some alterations. at
,Kirkdate, and. sending a larger proportion of the borough
prismiersthere, and it would he lessened in the went of any
arrangement being made` whiCh wt;tifd relieve the gaol from the
custody of the juvenile claii of Offenders and the debtors, and
_this would utidoutiteify be the Cheapest course.
" But however it taught recommend itself on that account,
it Apes not atipear that such would be the only point of view ia
which it.would he regarded by the council of Liverpool..
• ".It will' he gratifying to his loidship" to observe that what-
ever desire'there may be to economise the funds placed at their
disposal,.yet there reigns in that influential body a parainou lit
' [Mints on the important Subject of prison discipline, and that
there exists an anxious desire for an amelioration of the present
system.
The views of the council and the visiting justices on this
subject are'retirded in the following restitution, extracted fc• ut
the general report 'of the aljourned quarter sessions, held on
the 5 h ultimo, Viz.:—
" First resolution of the council at a special meeting held on
the 9th of 'Auglst; 18:17:--l'hat the council are fully aware of
the inefficieney and even injurious effect of the present system
of prison discipline, however well that system may be conducted.
They' ret.s,ret the increase of crime, especially of ju‘enile delin-
quency, and fee: grateful to her majesty's ministers for the sit 7
rention they have. 'given to the subject. They are anxious to
express their' earnest desire fur the amelioration of prison tbs-
. cipline. which they consider essential to civic economy, and to
the welfate and security of all classes of the community ; and
for the furtheratiee of this object, they solicit a fresh survey of
the Borough Prison fur the purpose of effecting such altera-
tions, as will adopt it to the contemplated improved system."
"On reading this resolution at the court hell by the justices
on the sth ultimo, it was resolved:—'That this court is seriously
impressed with the injurious consequences of the present sys-
tem of discipline. and are anxious for its amelioration. They
are anxious at the same time to avoid any unnecessary expense,
and would therefore respectfully request the council to apply to
the secretary of state, to agaill cause a fresh survey to be made
of the prison, as it is nor in a very different state from that in,
whit h it was when first surveyed.'
From the expression of such enlightened opinions, I am led
to infer that any outlay which may be necessary fur prison nor-
pesei at Liverpool will he regarded on the broad principle of
the beneffcial results which HMV be expected to follow, rather
than.the Oimparaltve expense which may be regarded. for con-
tirminsCand•eStablishing one system which is considered incfli-
jedt, instead-Of adopting the requisite measures forsubstituting
another, the merits nt Which Are uuw,f,ighly appreciated.
''The question therefore arises,—What are the musi practi-
cable and economical means of carrying those views into effect,
by the substitution of the separate system of confinement, a hich
presume to be that alluded to, fur the mixed system which
present circumstances entails

" In order to arrive at a Conclusion ott this subject, I studit;d
the general dispositiou of the buildings compositig, thegaid, and
the 'details
,of construction as regarded the arrangement and
size of the cells, The tbickness of the partitions, ,toe. width of the
passages. &e: to ascertain whether it was adapted for being 'al-
tered, so that it might torm a portion of a prison- on the same
sife, arranged With a view of carrying that system into effect.;
,and sufficii-ntly 'e-iiinniodious to receive the whole of the borough
prisoners, for I anxiouswas not
to lose sight of the advantage
of having all itie prisouers.committed. within the jurisdiction or
.the municipal body, placed under the Control and management
.of the authorities.
" But I frinud,that without a great sacrifice of space, arising
from the necessity !of throwing two cells into one, thus giving
the prisoners a greater extent than is required, in& reducing
the accommodation nearly one-half, no real improvement could
be effected. This, coupled with the inadequacy of the present
accommodation, fur all the prisoners committed within the bo-
rough which render it necessary to make such extensive addi--
tions to complete a prison on this plan, as that the expense
would, probably be but little short of what might be required for
a new prison of an improved construction, on a different and
less valuable site; and as no possible alteration would remedy
original defects,_ the result of any attempt to realise a plait of
this sort would be an imperfect and inconvenient prison, ill
:adapted for the Purposes required; and although ithwurthy of
so important a borough as Liverpool, I cannot, therefore, but
consider, that all the interests concerned would in the end be
best studied, were the local authorities to regard the occupation
of the present gaol, and the contract with the county for the
custody of their prisoners, as temporary measures, and seriously
to entertain the question of building a new prison, on an on
proved principle, as soon as any existing difficulties may be re 7!
moved. _ . .

" With reference to the second question, respecting the ob.
•itacles which exist to carrying the measure into effect, I am
given to understand the, the justices do not feet themselves in
4 position to. recommend to the council the outlay of such a sum
as would be required tor the erection of a new gaiif on the sepa-
rate.system, whatever benefits they may contemplate to result
from it, with the enforcement of that system is more distinctly
permitted by. some, legislative enactment; tor, according to the
construction put upon the 4914 section of the 4th ofGeorge I V. ,
which provides for the classification of prisoners and nut their
individual. separation, they are advised that there may be some
doubt enteriained as to its legality; and it would appear that

so'lonji as any
.doubt existed upon -point of pecuniary import-
ance as regards the discussion of the question as that anyAbfk,
"culties remain' Which it is iu the power of government to remove
that it might be premature to press the point.
~Atiother ques-
tion of minor importance as affects the question of builditig a
gaol, ityugh it
,ts.of paramount importance in itself, that ,re,
specting the disposal jiivertile'Offeliders..' -TitiOclass,, of de,
Unguents unhappily forms uo inconsiderable proportion of the
inmates. of all gaols, and a's it appears to' be adiifitted that the
discipline of-the separate systeuris nit altogetber•,applicable to
youth, the numbers for whom it may he necessary to provide
accommodat ion, cannot be ascertained until huntilihis point -is finally
-determined upon C and as ii is a question
,greally.affecting the
expense, especially where site is valuable, any curtailment of
the number of cells to be constructed would have iit'direct• ten-
dency to diminish the difficulties which now, impede the pro-
gressive amelioration of prison discipline, and the -establish-
ment of one nuiform system.
As far as regards the borough of Liverpoolh am impressed
with the beiielthat no subStantial,difficulties exist which would,
not be removed by the determination of the council to build..
And ciith respect to the time within which a new prison Might
be expected to be ready for the reception of prisoners, I have
little (UMW within a year and- a half of the resolution being
passed to erect one, the means would be found for cum-
. pletinv it.

".With reference to the third question, of the- expediency of
executing the-additions and alterations now proposed for the
present gaol, my observations lead me fully to concur in the
opinion expressed by Captain Williams as to its being necessary
that some steps should immediately be taken to supply the fol
16-wing deficiencies, viz :—a bath, a disinfecting apparatus, and
*some means of securing greater comforts tnr the women employ-
ed in washing; and also as in its being very desirable that there
should be the means of separating the sick in the event of any
infectious disorder making its appearance among the pristmers.
The alacrity with which' the justices and council appear dis-
posed to recimimend and supply these deficiencies and their
obvious disregard of expense in securing them, is a gratifying
proof
of the deep interest th6y take in the subject. The alter-
'talons first proposed were at the estimated expense of £700;
-bui those now contemp!ated, and the cost of each, as set forth
• in the general report of the justices assembled in platter ses-
•sions, on the 21st November, !KW, are as follows
1. An examination and cleansing room, and a • •
disinfeCting rootn, with•app.datus £.560 0 0
2. Au hospital
3. A wash-house with lauudty, and suitable
conveniences - 290 0 0
4. A house fur the matron • 4CO 0 .0
5 - A conking-house, with'suitable conveniences 295 0 0
6. A watchman's cottage, outside the walls, •
-• ' with au extension of the stables

Total • £2455. 0 0
The execution of these services Would doubt.ess add greatly to
the comfort and convenience of all concerned; but as they are
such as would not materially influence the discipline of the
prison, and as the essentials for whiCh they provide could most
of them he secured by lecturing, when necessary. to some tem-
porary expedient, it would appear itijudicious to expend so much
Money on an improvement of so permaueot a t haracter, if
there exists any probahitity of their being abandoned within any
limited period, as,-in fact, so long as the citieitiOn of a new gaol'
is a matter of doubt, the liberal views entertained by.the pre-
sent council might lead them to. disregard thea-xpenditure of a
few thousand pounds, when the question of building on a more
extended scale was before them, but with the annual change
which takes place in that body, different sentiments might here-
after prevail, and an outlay of I:2500 on improvements origi-
nating in the recommendation of a government officer, and
sanctioned by the Secretary of State; whatever the present un-
derstaudirg might be respecting iheni..mig,ht certainly affect
the (veal iou of buil ..ing a new gaol, and tend to prejudice and
,delay a measure which is or vast importance to the borough of
Liverpool.
Under all the circumstances stated, and, the impressions
which I entertain on the subject generally, 1. would, in conclu-
sion, most respectfully submit for his lordship's' consideration.—
" Ist. "That all the legal difficulties arising oat of the different
constructions which may be put upon the 49. h section of the
4th of George IV., which- provides fur-the elassication, and not
the individual separation of prisoners, should be taken into cou-
sideration with a view to their removal.
"2d. That the question of the final disposal of juvenile offend,
ers, and the system of discipline to which they should be sub-
ject, should be determined upon, so that hereafter there should
be no difficulty in ascertaining the number.of cells to be con-
structed in any new prison.
" 3d: That in the meantime the authoritiesof Liverpool should
be apprised, that it would he extremely desirable for theta to
enter upon the discussion of the preliminary, steps required for
Borough• Gaol, and to act upon it in
t
an amelioration of the st'siem of discihpelinceonu.sorruecntito.onrc,e,td.a at the
new
gaol, as an extensive alteration of the present gaol, as soon as
any existing difficulties were removed.
" 4th. That in the -meantime the council should also be re-
quested to reconsider the proposed alterations,. keeping in mind
the expediency of building a new gaol, and the definite period,
within which it might be possible to complete it; with a view 10-
of some more economical arrangement, in seeking
tothe convettiences they contemplate by those temporary
trih: gaina, . adoption
measures,
rp s
and at the smallest possible outlay:"' •
The TOWN-CLERK next read the Opinion of the law officers of
the crown, above referred to, on separate confinement. The
case submitted to the attorney and solicitor-general was, " whe-
ther by the 2,1 section or the sth and 6th William IV. c. 33,
(notwithstanding anything contained in the 4111 Geo; 1 V. c. 64,)
the secretary of state is empowered to make regulations for the
individual separation of prisoners, or to sanction such regulations
if submitted. to him for approval?"
To 'which they replied as follows :—" We are of opinion. that
state has the power of sanctioning regulations sub-
nutted
under the 2d section of the sth and 6th.Williain Iv. e. 38, the
hint for approval, which provide' for the individual
secretary of
h
andhim he may lawfully alter or add to any
by directing such separation.
regulationsseparation
There is nothing in the 4th Geo. IV. c. 61, which prevents the
paration of
prisoners,
sunitted to
exercise of such a power by the secretary of state." •
The ToWN-cLEHK expressed his dissatisfaction with the opi-
nion of the taw-officers of the crown; which be thought would
:have been different if a more minute case -had, been -laid, before
:them. lint they were merely asked, whether the secretary of
state might not adopt regulations for the separate cOntitiement
:of prisoners, of which there could be no dinito, and nut whether
!they clinkd coufide'prisoners in cells by themselves, there to be
•ny themselves, and there to work, and there to take exercise,
'unless their health should make it abso:iitely necessary to relax
their solitary confinement. If that 'had been sutrunited, he
thought they wouldhave come to a differen;..opinion. The true
question was, wnether, under the act of parliament for the classi-
hcatimi of prisoners, and which provides sOlitary confinement as
a punishment in particular cases, the secretary of state can go
so far, ,notwithstanding those enactments, to alter altogether
the prison discipline, and enforce solitary!ciitifinentent•in gaols,
although the acts.of last sessidu fur the atneroinient of the crim-
inal law, had gone to limit the duration.of solitary confinement?
[lad a Statement of that kind been couiiiiii,ed iii tb.i case, the'
Opinion would have been more'satisfaettyl. ,But even suppos-
ipg that statement had been contained ip the case, and-the laW
officerstof the erown hat,d been of the 'otWnion •thitv etptesscid,
which only amounted to this, 'that flie'Settia‘tary oistate might
approve of regulations for the individual separation of prisoners,.
it gave no security that any future secretary of state would pur-
' sue the same coutse, and this Was too sliabean assurance-for the
council. to expend from £150,000 to /4"900 io altering the,
gaol, or erecting a new one. •
The MA.vott also said, that it hid beep liraed upon Captain
Jebb, that no call could be made upon thi,S, borough until some-
thing more satisfactory was known of the (-nurse of prison dis-
cipline to lie pursued, and whether the imprisonment for debt
bill would be passed, and till an assurance was given try govern-
ment, that if the corporation went to considerable expense in
ouliding a prison, that expense would be available,' -Likewise,
' what arrangement would be made for the discipline of juvenile
delinquents. Awl that if a new system of prison discipline were
to be adopted for the benefit of the country at alarge, it was but
fair that the country at large should bear a. portion of the ex-
pense, in consequence of the alteration of the law. Capt. Jebh
met fairly the objections of the Gaol Couthi dire; but there-again
Lord John Russell had skimmed them river. • . .

Mr. Conncillor might be well In induce
Lord John Russell to send down large bulks for the separate
confinement ofjuvenile offenders. as was tire casein the Thames,
and save the outlay of £l5OOOO or £200.000.

The M Arm, said, that subject was tirge'd upon the attention
of Ca plain Jrtili. .

Mr. Councillor Curt at said, it was hardly fair to say that
some act for the regulation of prison rlircipliue was indefinite,
though it was, perhaps, as well to wait till it should be passed,
iiefo.e the corporatom, on the faith of it, incurred expense.
But it was known, that there was a deierMination in the govern-
ment to introduce some general system- of prison discipline.
Captain Jebh had slated, that he liiirirght 30 or 4(1,0001. would
be sufficient for the gaol. instead or 150 t(i '20,0,0001.

The TOWN-CLEIIK said, he had beard the -expense estimated
at I 10,0001. When they came to exrenses of that kind, it was
frequently several thousands more.
The subject was then referred back generally to the gaol com-
mittee and justices to report to the next,council..

SLAUGHTER HOUSES.

A report from the Finance Committee was brought up and
confirmed in some particulais, hut on others
.. referred back to
the committee. It related to confirming to air. Etches a perma-
nent annual payment of £240, by bond on tlresltianulgtliirttieart.iohtlou ,
sheisr
75 years; r. Etches being hound to keep t
in proper repair.

PorND KEEPER.

The appointment of litchard Butter, keeper of the North
Police station, as keeper of an adjoining pound, was con
firmed. There were other applicatioos, bill ar this appointment
avoided the ex pence of a salary, and also had the advantage of
having a keeper under the direction of tue police inspectors, it
met with the approval of the council.

P11.91' CWIIMISSIONERq.

The TowN CLERK 111;11 staied to the counoil the necessity of
appointing forty•onr members of the council as commissioners,
(in lieu of the mayor and council prior to the municipal corpo-
rations' act,) to carry into execution an act of the lith of George

•

rt. y 23,

the 4th, intituled "An act for the better regulation and en.-
.couragement of pilots for the conducting of 'ships-aridvesS'elit
into and out of the port of Liverpool." •He said, by the muni-
cipal act the council-had the appointment of a like number_df
commissioners as formerly acted from the council—one of the.
'fortp•due to act in lieu of the mayor, another in the place of the
deputy-mayor, and thirty-nine as general commissioners:
Mr. Woof) observed that there were several membetS bf die
council that were already commissioners under the act.
The TovN-Cbmix remarked that it would be better to leave?
those gentlemen out of the appointments. The act provided
that there should be a certain number appointed by the coun-
cil and certain other persons who were to supply the vacancies
iu the pilots' committee. ,
Mr. EARLS said he understood that government was about to.
bring in a general pilot bill, and he suggested that the commiii!!
sinners should direct their attention to it, to see whether some
beneficial enactments could not be introduced.

Mr. BIBBY inquired what were the duties of the mayor and
commissioners appointed by the council.
The Towrt-ctAtta replied that the mayor and members Etti
pointed by the council were commissioners, like others, and
one of their most important duties was to appoint the pilot corn-
mittee, and in ease of vacancy by death the mapir or deputy
mayor must be one of ten to form a meeting.
Mr. BIBBY was happy to hear that there was likely to be a
general pilot act; for the pilots in this port were daily becoming'
more inefficient. They now did nothing without steamers, and
were consequently without the necessary practice to make them
as efficient as was desirable . The port was going into decay
from the inefficiency of the pilots. They brought the port into
discredit, and underwriters wanted a higher premium in con
sequence. lie thought some clause might be beneficially intro4.'
duced into the new act, or some representations made, that
would be advantageous. • • .
Mr. CURB ig thought what had fallen from "Mr.',Bibliy. was of
the highest importance, and thought 'smite Meaila should. be
adopted for punishing offending pilots by taking pail of the
earnings of their boats.
The Towts-ciEag explained that this had been brought be-
fore the council now in consequence of the mayorbeing called
upon to sign some appointment of a meeting for the election of
a commissioner in the room of one deceased. But as he had
not power to do• so it became necessat y to appoint forty-one
commissioners from the council to carry into effect the purposes
of the act. 'The council nos only empowered to elect forty-one,
for -it was prOperly enacted that they should nut send in the
whole sixty-four in opposition to the other commissioners; and
the appointment must be made either at that or the next meet-
ing. and he thought the proper course would be to leave out of
the fortynne the gentlemen that were already commissioners.
The Ms Yott thought it would be better to refer' it to the
Towmclerk-to-preparea and produce it at the next meeting, .
for the council to elect the cenimissiouers, which .was'agreed to.A
The MAYOR then asked Mr. Bibby if he Wished to make any
motion on the subject he had mentioned.-- •
But after. a 'few observationS from Mr. Bibby, in which he,
- expressed his belief that there would be no remedy till the boats'
of the toasters were fined for the negligeui:e or inefficiency of
their men, and rutin Mr. Currie, it was thought, necessary to
do so, as doubtless the commissioners would pay proper atten-
tion to the subject.

M R. BROWN'S CONCERT.
MR. BROWN begs to announce to his Friends and
the Public that -his CONCERT will take place on
the 13th MARCH.