The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1841-09-24 00:00:00

of this county, th

roposed, and

Pudsey I
Two pi
of obtrui

d •Lord Stan

le absurd farce
but

re the elect

h of this

that after

unbecom
nddressir
because

3ey011,.0f course

qualification

llent speech

•verily sarcastic allusions to Mr.
.worth and Lancaster, his lord-
-Gentlemen, is it necessary for
) do so—to go back to somewhat
Al life for the last few years ? I
td has told you, a member of the
; and, as a member of that ad-
,ur of supporting the measure of
f bringing forward, successfully
measure of the emancipation of
lies. (Hear, and a cry of " Ay,
ber of Earl Grey's administra-
eforms in our institutions
he circumstances of the
Rises which time

Aclan d
ship pr,

me—if it
of the his

ministration, I

the negroes i
£20,000,000

tion, I cordial!

whiCh 1 Lc
times ; I N

ing those

had introduce
removing dm

itcous ; but I was zealous in
I believed then, as I believe

s is the best principle of con-
hemselves. But, gentlemen,

servatism t

towards th
tion was i
my view, I

xtion of E

.rlGriy

a ques-

parliament, which, in

of those institu-
nsh and support—l
intended to convert to
established church.
f " Oh, the church.")
ho are disposed to
advantages of an
)ersons, upon that
I cannot expect
either by their
stating the respect and
old that institution. (Cheers.) Gen-
measure I saw danger and not
he country, I declared that my
is impossible ; that, under
link my opinion and remain
__g a measure of which I dis-
lout hesitation, I abandoned
ndoned high power then, and

allude to t.

:ntlemen, if

established churc

subject, I have no

their support

opposition or by

reverence in N
tlemen, belieN

reform to the ins'

concurrence in tt

such circumstar

I could not t

of feeling ;
,e deterred

a member of a
approved ; and
office, I abandc
the prospect of

the future, buG

c, out I aban-
I abandoned all
And, gentlemen,

on prig

; that was no principle
a temporary view of the

taken up fo:

circumstam
foreseen ; i
known that

3. question long since
upon which it had long been
)pinion might be created amongst
and

who, u

were acting together

_ _.ular testimony to the
a respect—one which will
, that so long ago as the
what was likely to occur; and
was my intention to pursue in
e perhaps to read this to you.
) held one in his hand] has been put
ie course of a very few days ; and
it is written in French, of translat-
read. (" No," " yes.) This book
a of very liberal opinions in France,
ical questions opinions widely differ-
tilling a very prominent station in the
t who accidentally was over in this
e satisfaction to receive him in this
travelling here, in 1826. Here is a
rntleman makes in writing an article
es in this country at this moment.
I have been here I have heard the
d " apostate" applied to me, and I
1t unconcern, because I was satisfied

accuracy of rr
show, from ul

nt in t

year 1825, I foresa
I declared the con:
that event. You ,
This book [his lot
into my hands witl
shall take the liber

entertaining upon r

ent from m
French leg
country ; o

tatement wt

upon thl
Gentlerr
words 4'

heard the
that they
of that g

inmerited. But here is the statement
1. Duvergier D'llauranne, one of the
supporter of the government of
in his opinions; and this is an
.go upon the state of par-
. " I know," he says,
I can relate, a fact which is
Ii prove that the supposed apos-
fruit of a long and persevering
he was an eager whig, I made
and after the election I spent
Amongst the num-

French Char.
M. Thiers,

)nths

ties in Eng
" with res

at once curio

tacy of Lor

his acquaintance

some days NI

1 Derby's

ber of sub.
the tempos
its destinat

as exactly this one of

of the church, of its nature, and of
upon this point the ideas which were
and I was surprised to find them
agerness by Lord Stanley. I said to
Jun to expect to keep office on this
at the Whigs, and more especially Mr.
pal parliamentary supporter, seems to
-s upon it, and should not be sur•
'ler they were to consent to the alter-
What would you do
Ley answered me immediately, I
vhigs—(hear)—on many points I
•es to my party , on that one I
To say the truth," continues this

combatted v
him, '
point ;
Broug
have

prised if some day o

ation which

)u so unjust

in that case ?
would separate

know ho

never could m

gentleman

'ery seriously the peremptory
was soon forgotten. But how

answer of Lo

was it r

D my recollection when seAen

years at

m precisely upon the very question
sen conversing, do precisely that
Id do ?" (Applause.) Gentlemen,
sere or elsewhere, who could for a

Which he

change of c

e- that my conduct in 1834 was the result of a
on (although an honest change of opinion no
hauled of,) I can appeal with confidence to
from an unsuspected witness that my views

man need 13(
this declarat

in 1834 were t
case 1 had decla

ul that which in a Possible
I would be my course, was my course when
;u amongst circumstances most painful to
(Loud cheers, and cries of hear, hear.)
r alluding in feeling terms to the distresses in
:e on the subject of the corn laws as fol-
deceive you if I said that I thought an
orn laws—whether that measure be desira-
s tile mode, the only mode, or the most

;e of 18!

my own fe
His lordst

the countr

efficient

stresses ; for, in my
it those distresses are to be
ideed, in a very slight degree
on of the corn-laws in their pre-
ribute those distresses to very
The advocates of an alteration in the corn-

sent stat
different c
laws cont,

all countries

ill only admit foreign corn from
se result of that will be an immense increase
g industry ; a consequent great improve-
of the manufacturers ; and, consequent
nt in the condition of the manufactu-
in the condition of those who labour
id, if that measure could be carried to
labouring population of this country
grievously disappointed in the result.
) what I attribute mainly the distresses
classes arc seriously involved. Are
•ts of manufactured goods have sus-
not ? I know that Mr. Acland will
they have. I know that Mr. Acland
1831 to 1841, the exports of our cot-
nearly if not quite doubled—(hear)—
sion, an immense increase of goods,
a markets of the world. Now, gen-
)serve to you that, from the period of
d of 1841, at which I speak, these
-1 in operation ; through all the flue-
; and commercial prosperity, the
tion and without exception, have
the distress which is now felt be
I ask you why that distress
d systematically felt from 1831
Has that been the case ? Why,
e years 1834, 1835, and 1836 were
mid venture to say, of extravagant
r. And what was• the result of that
in the year 1836, I think it was,
iers published an account, that, at
own of Manchester and the neighbour-
ie demand for labour, that, in addition
ing establishments then in being, there
lls and machinery to the value of three
1 that in the course of this and the fol-
)uld be a demand for 80,000 additional
turing district surrounding Manchester
.:re was this demand ; a vast number of
o come into the town of Manchester ;
; prosperity was supposed to have no
exports were increased with a rapidity
d of before ; the markets of the world
zr produce, which you were compelled
-5, in order to meet, not only the corn-
er, but also that new competition which
amongst yourselves. To add to your
k banks and country banks gave large
in the way of discounts ; large sums of
advanced to manufacturers who had
to set out upon ; these men were
.s of obtaining credit, to enter into a
'nen of real capital, and that in-
mand for manufacturing labour.
a large proportion of those
I in those speculations; but
down in their fall, a vast propor-
whom, having called
found that their own

of your ma

ment in th

upon t

for them
the full

would find tl
I will tell yot
in which the
we told that

will tell you

that an

tuations of
same laws,

attributab.
has not 19(
down to tl

years c

manufacturing pr

reat pro:
he poor-

to sell

creased

I them to discard, and to

You have glutted ever

goOdS. You have been run-
I competition with each other, which
lowered, almost to nothing, your own
hen to find that you had embarked your
peculation ; you began to work . short
is mill after the other ; and the result
the loss of your capital, but, bear in
throwing out of their means of daily
means of earning an honest livelihood,
who swell the market of labour, and
ruinous competition to which they are
at wages which are incapable of
'th and comfort, as the labouring
maintained. Mr. Acland contends
al of the corn-laws, as I apprehend—
dy]—if he contend for an unlimited
a forn crom wheresoever, whensoever,
ibtained, he contends, at all events, for
;sman—no man of practical experience,
radical, charged with the administration
country—has ever ventured to entertain,
ned as a vicious and impracticable spe-
h all respect for the authority of Mr.
that I look to the unanimous consent of
,anning, Mr. Huskisson, Lord Grey, and
.ing men on both sides of the House of
la sides of both houses—who have had to
istration of public affairs, as more weighty
aority of Mr. Acland and the Corn-Law
ien,d my belief is that, if the introduction
uced the effect which is anticipated by
.le—that is to say, if it very materially
1 the price of
nm'uldbheeaconeftsdlasisegi
trtyri
corn in this country, the
f
he
ehnamegs
pyaalsiogte
yers imescdeuwxlntpi uloei rwenah-1
hcuaui of
than
at
udaoorr
ptie
‘ce,ruinous to thelandlord, and:
-,Yier (laughter) but lastly,
.tainlyoruinous to the awe
thrown out of employment
ng just now about the hand..
;t—in 1826, I think it was, when
liar Preston—that in that year
consequence of the distress in
yrs were plunged; and deep, no
ad has been, and great has been
they have borne their privations.
e remedy then proposed? Why, a
the employment of
ohen of
of ma•
s said tn
c3trtYhteahx' on
a ud nath
_loo we
eaverompet
only put a tax upon ma-
f the market by
you will c
trers must employ us again, and we
i
prosperity which this unhappy ntro-
bas deprived us of for the preseut e
, acquainted with the working of the
of the country—does any man dream

hours, and to cl

of this w

classes o
for a tote

that which xi-o
be he whit. tn,

arid has r

culation
Acland,

Comrn

do with the a

of forei,
the Cor

-Law

prohibitio

Well, 1r

We are

ehinery which is the source and tlin very gound-work'of
national prosperity? And yet. no doubt, it was quite truie
that the introduction of machinery did supplant a vast num-
ber of hand-loom weaver.; that, at the present moment, a
vast proportion of that mill ,ppy class are only half employe.'.,
and a vast proportion wholly unemployed.
,-Gentlemen, the
result of an alteration of the laws with respect to the price
of corn would have no eff,:ct whatever upon the hand-loom
weavers who come into competition with machinery; and,
even if there was any trifling increase in the amount of
labour demanded from the hand-loom weavers, such is the
superabundance of labour in the market, such are the multi-
tudes who are only half employed, and of'those who are
wholly unemployed, that their competition for employment
would necessarily and naturally tend to keep down to its
necessarily low level the price by which their labour is re-
munerated in the market. Now, with respect to the national
debt and the introduction of machinery, I have been told,
over and over again, in former times, that they were the
great sources of national distress; and no* we are told that
it is the undue preponderance given to the agricultural inter-
est. But, rely upon it, that you cannot injure one of those
great interests —that you cannot effect that which Mr.
Acland and his friends desire to effect—namely, such as
lowering the price of corn as to throw out of cultivation a
very large proportion of the wheat lands of this country—if
that be effected by the total removal of the restrictions or
duties on foreign corn—without at the same time entailing
upon this country and the labouring classes most serious,
grievous, and irretrievable evils. As, between Mr. Acland and
me, there may he this difference ; but between the late admi-
nistration and myself, there is no question whatever of the
removal of the restrictions on foreign corn. It is universally
admitted by all men who have had anything to do with the con-
duct of public business, that some protection is necessary to be
given in the shape of duty to the agricultural interests of this
country against the unlimited importation of foreign corn;
and the question between us and the late government was,
in what manner and to what extent shall this protection be
given ? Shall it he by the uniform duty of 8s per quarter,
which was their proposal, or by a duty fluctuating in amount
according as the price of corn may rse or fall in this country ;

and thereby tending, as I believe, to maintain at the same
time comparative cheapness and comparative steadiness of
prices ? Why, if the 8s duty bad been taken at this moment,
I should like to know what advantage had been gained. Un-
der the present system, a large quantity of corn is annually
brought into this country ; and the greater the demand for
corn in this country in consequence of the increase of price, I
the greater is the supply which it draws from the continent
of Europe. The supply is always found to be at hand to
meet the demand. The very increase of price which affects
the reduction of duty throws out the temptation, and affords
the facility for that foreign corn, the importation of which is
to counteract the undue rise of prices at home. And, prac-
tically speaking, you may do what you please, you cannot
legislate for the seasons, and you cannot make that fixed and
certain in price which God and nature have declared shall be
unfixed and uncertain in its abundance and supply. You
may calculate to a nicety how much a given mill or a given
amount of machinery shall produce of cotton, woollens, or
manufactured goods of any desciption ; you can announce to
a certainty what shall be the expense of production of a cer-
tain portion of manufactured goods ; and you may, therefore,
with a certainty, fix the amount of duty which, being im-
posed upon the production of foreign goods of a like kind,
shall give a fair and reasonable protection to the manufac-
turing interests of this country. But, with respect to corn,
you can do no such thing. (Hear, hear.) After agricultural
labour is over, the issue is uncertain, the amount of return
is doubtful, and the farmer cannot tell before harvest what
shall be the amount of supply with which Providence may
favour him ; he cannot tell what amount of remuneration
shall be given for the labour he has expended upon the soil;
and it is, therefore, to meet these fluctuations at home, to
meet this uncertainty, and to protect at once the farmer and
the community, that the fluctuating scale of duties is intro-
duced, and with a view to regulate and control, as far as it
can be controlled, the amount of the price of corn. And at
this very moment, the duty of 8s being imposed, you would
not have had brought into this market the amount which,
within the last few weeks, has been brought in of foreign corn.
Just when the home prices are raised, and the supply of the
home growers is so short and scanty in the market, by the
fluctuating scale you have obtained at a duty of is 1,500,000'
quarters of wheat, which, according to the 8s plan, must
have been introduced at a payment of Bs. duty, and conse-
quently, could not have' been introduced without a corres-
ponding rise in price at home. Now, I say that I believe
that the corn-laws have had the effect of producing compara-
tive steadiness of price. Ido not mean to say that the price
has been steady or unvarying ; it is impossible that it should
be so ; but this I say, that, under the operation of the ex-
isting corn-laws, there have been less fluctuations in the
price of corn in this country than there have been in the
price of corn, with the exception of Belgium, in any country
in Europe. But I see a note is being taken ; and the answer
will be, " Yes, to be sure, because the effect of your corn-
laws is to derange the supplies, and to affect the supplies all
over the world." Now, then, I ask you does that apply to
America ? I will tell you how it is in America, because
official returns have been furnished by the last government
with respect to the price of corn in America ; and I find,
upon reference to this table, the result to have been that, in
the course of the last four or five years, the fluctuations in
the American market have been considerably greater ; nay,
that the price of corn at times has been considerably higher
in the markets of New York and Philadelphia than in the
markets of Liverpool and London. 1 will not trouble you
with going through the figures.
Mr. BROOKS.—I admit that to be the case, once, my lord.
Lord STANLEY.—Very well. First of all, then, I tell you
that, under the present fluctuating duties, we have a greater
steadiness of price than in any market in Europe. The
answer to that is the result of the corn-laws, which creates
an uncertain demand in all the countries in Europe. I then
come to the United States of America, from which we have
not imported one quarter, nor from which could we import
one single quarter, at least except in very extraordinary
harvests ; and I have it admitted by my opponent that the
fluctuations have been greater, and the prices higher, in
America. I do hold it most unwise to depart from that
sound and wholesome principle which has been the leading
object of the existing corn-laws, namely, to uphold such a
permanent and fixed price of corn at home as may enable us,
not in all years and upon all occasions, to supply the fair
wants of our population et a reasonable price, but which shall
enable a large proportion of the lands of this country to be
cultivated with a profit, and furnish a supply of corn, in
some years adequate, in most years nearly so, to the wants of
the population of tail; country, and, at the same time, not
prohibiting the importatioa of foreign corn, but so re-
gulating it that, according to the law, every necessity for it
here should produce its importation from abroad and I
find that, under this law, we had imported last year
2,500,000 quarters of corn. It is well known that the
last two or three harvests have been defective ; and, conse-
quently, we have been obliged to rely on foreign supplies.
Has that reliance been disappointed ? In the course of
the year before, we introduced, I think, 2,100,000 quarters.
Now inquiries have been made, and I dare say Mr. Acland
and his friends are familiar with all these figures. I dare say
they would not pretend to give instruction on this subject
unless they had carefully examined the facts and figures ;
unless they knew what was the state of things in the market
of the world ; and perhaps they will tell us what they antici-
pate will be the result of the system they propound. But I
have here a correspondence which took place relative to the
price at which foreign corn can be imported into England ;
and this was presented to both houses of parliament, by com-
mand of her Majesty, tinder the late administration. It is a
return furnished by the British consols from all the principal
ports of Europe, and, indeed, of the world ; and from it I
find that, under a moderate fixed duty, it was to be expected
that there might be introduced, upon the average, 2,222,000
quarters of foreign wheat annually. What has been the
result of our present system ? That supply we have obtained
whenever we wanted it. Whenever that corn has been
cheaper than at home, that corn has not been poured in at
the moment to inundate us with an unwonted supply.
Whence do we draw our corn ? Chiefly from the markets of
Germany and Russia. Let us hear a word from Russia.
From Russia the consul tells you that, in average years, the
export from Petersburg would be from 175,000 to 210,000
imperial quarters, and the price free on board at Petersburg
395. id. per quarter„with freight and charges about 4s. 6d.
more, making the import price here about 455., without any
duty at all. That is the ordinary state of things ; and that is
the amount which, in common years, might be calculated
upon at Petersburg. But now come a very great year, and
corn is low here—it is down at 395. in England ; and what
happens ? There is at the same time a very prosperous har-
vest in Russia, and we are told that, in one year, one single
province in Russia sent down to Petersburg 38 millions of
quarters of corn. The average supply which can he afforded
is about 200,000 quarters ; but in one year, from one province,
there was sent down to Petersburg 38 millions of quarters of
corn. What was the price of that in the market ? Why, it
was sold in the market of Petersburg in that year at the
price of 13s. the imperial quarter. (Hear). The average and
ordinary price there is 395. ; but in that year, owing only to
the large supply, the price was 13s. Under a fixed duty of
Ss., or under no duty at all, the British grower never could
be guaranteed against such an importation at the time wheat
is selling here at 395. ; and when, in consequence of this
enormous influx, he has been led to abandon the cultivation
of wheat altogether, then comes a reverse, and the following
year, wheat coming to an average price of 395. instead of 13s.
at Petersburg, and instead of 38 million quarters, 200,000
quarters is the whole supply upon which this country has to
depend from Petersburg. Now there is the effect of the fixed
duty—(applause)—and there, but to a greater and more ruin-
ous extent, is the effect of no duty at all—that in one year
you have corn imported at a price which renders it impos-
sible to cultivate it with profit in this country, and when, by
an enormous admission at that price some year, you have
discouraged, disheartened, and ruined the farmer—then
comes a short supply in the markets of the world, and prices
rise to what may then be called starvation prices in this coun-
try. (Hear.) It is assumed that, if you admit foreign corn
under all circumstances, you must have an unlimited free
export for the produce of your manufacturing industry. That
is assumed as a fact ; but it is not a fact ; for the policy of
other countries interferes with the ordinary interchange of
different commodities. It is the policy of Germany, of Rus-
sia, and of France to maintain their own manufactures, and
to impose protective duties upon them, as against your labour
and manufacturing industry. It is nonsense to tell me that
you have set me the example by your restrictive system.
The question is, whether this principle does prevail in France,
Germany, and Russia, and whether they are determined to
maintain a protection for their own manufactures as against
the manufacturing industry of this country. If they are, it
is no use to say your manufactures might go out cheaper,
or might go out at all, if other countries agree that they
will not introduce them into their markets. Now, the late
government was negociating a treaty with France. France
was anxious that we should import, not her grain, for she
does not export it, at least very little, but the brandies and
wines of France. She expressed herself very willing to re-
ceive, in return, as much produce of our manufacturing in-
dustry. But when the question was asked as to British
cotton goods, she declined. " No; it is just exactly those
which we are not prepared to introduce, and it does not suit
our policy that we should take them ; and, though you may
take our brandies and wines, our policy says that cotton shall
not be introduced into France upon a corresponding reduction
of duties." Why, the case is the same in Germany. Some
years ago, fifteen or sixteen years since, there was a large
reduction in the importation duties on foreign wool. The
principal portion of that wool came from Germany ; and its
importation was for the benefit of our own manufactures,
though it was complained of by our wool growers, but we
did largely assist the introductimi of foreign wool into this
country. What was the result ? that the Germans took
more of our manufactures? Not at all. The export of our
manufactures has fallen off in consequence of her wool being
infinitely more ireportant;to Germany than her corn ; and at
this moment the amount of our imports from Germany con-
siderably 'exceeos the amount of our exports to Germany.
Have there been any indications 'that Russia will take our
manufactures, our manufactured goods, upon the unrestrict-
ed introduction of her corn into this country ? I know of
none such. lam quite aware that Dr. Bowring has published
his reports on this subject ; and in them he states that, when
he talked of the introduction of manufactured goods, he was
iciaftr:lll
constantly met with, " Why don't you introduce our corn ?"
and he says, " I felt myself answered." No doubt it was
an easy answer to give to a gentleman who they knew was in
fe'itrahreseapolicy of allowing the introduction of foreign
for it England; no doubt they thought it very conclusive;
r 1 served tol stop his mouth and to, prevent his inquiring
Tuscany.
see that- disposition to receive our manufactures. I
not introduced?
loportion of corn might be imported from
small
to which 'I don't ,Aboey make any complaint that corn was
.kot but they do make one complaint, as
Tuscans say, they shoZd
beat the ladies may say, but the
mercial regulations betweenptehrifse
cc
ot luynstar
yt safinedd
Twuistlciatnhye
icfo rnwe-