Star.
London, England, 1810-01-27 00:00:00

PRIVATE RILLS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose, in conse- I
quence of the notice which he hadgiven, to propose to the House
a limitation to the period for receiving petitions for private
Bills,. and for the various stages of private Bills when intro-
duced. "I'he experience which for some years the House had en-
joyed of the advantage of such a limitation, rendered it unneces-
sary for him to say any thing on that part of the subjeet.—
He should confine himself, therefore, to an explanation of the
difference between the proposition which he was about to make,
and those which on former occasions he had submitted to the
House. At the commencement of the last Session he had pro-
posed the Bth May as the limit for the ultimate stage of a private
Bill, i. e. the reception of the Report. It was his intention now
to propose the 7th May as that limit, being a difference of only
one day in the limit of the climate step. The alteration that he
bad In view was to diminish the period hitherto allowed for the
reception of petitions for private Bills, in order to extend the sub-
tent stages of those Bills, and thus to give the adverse panics
oc Bills a more ample opportunity of examining ard oppo-
'ieir previsions. He should therefore propose three Reso-
,, viz.
'hat the House would not receive any Petitions for private
ter Friday, the 9th February next."
;hat the House would not receive any private Bills afters'
inday, the 19th March next."
-That the House would nut receive any Reports of private
%ter Nlonday, the 7th May next."
rould be observed, that the period for the reception of pri-
hills would, by these Resolutions, be extended a fortnight,
to period for receiving reports of private Bills a week
id the correspondent periods of the antecedent year.
RO.iE expressed his apprehension, that the tern, proposed
Right Hon. Friend for the reception of Petitions for private
would, in some cases, he insufficient.
CHANCEL: OR ssf the EXCHF.QT.IER replied, that it
desirable to establish is a general principle, that the Petitions
be presented within the period which he had mentioned.
ises of peculiar difficult y, the House would, of course, listen
the circumstances that might be alledged for an extension of
period, and determine accordingly.
he Resolutions were then agreed to, and ordered to be

REVERSION RILL.
BANKS, finding that there were two other
izcts of importance to be discussed by the House
evening, withdrew his notice of a motion for
'e to bring in a bill to render the Reversion Bill
ast session perpetual, in order to fix it for another
• ; a delay to which he was the more strongly in-
iced, from understanding that it was a proposition
ich unfortunately was likely to produce debate.— ,
however, the subject was one of much urgency
the existing bill would *Ore in six weeks after
commencement of the session) he should not de-
his motion longer than Monday next.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
served, that there were already two notices on the
-der Book for Monday, both of which would pro-
excite discussion. He wished therefore that
Right Honourable Friend would fix on some sub-
pent day. With respect to any supposed urgency
the measure, it could scarcely be imagined to
tatever period motios might be delayed—even
!re it poste' for to the expiration of the existing bill,
it his Majesty's Ministers would take any step by
lich the principle of that bill might be violated. He
mid oppose the bal to be proposed by his Right
)nourable Friend, because he wished only to sus-
nd the power which that bill would go to abolish.
his Right Honourable Friend had no objection he
)uld recommend Wednesday as the day on which
might bring forward his proposition.
Mr. BANKS acceded, and Wednesday was swcor-
tgly fixed for his motion.
Loan

Lord COCHRANE said, that understanding it
Is the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to pro-
pose on Monday next the thanks of that House to
ord Gambier, he telt it his duty to move for the
vvious production of the Minutes of the Court
'irtial which had been held on that Noble Lord ;-
4 he pledged himself to prove from those minutes,
tot only that
'Tie SPEAKER interrupted the Noble Lord. If
le Noble Lord were going to give notice of a mo-
vn, it was irregular to enter into any detail. It;
iwever, it was his intention to submit a motion t)
le House at that time, it would be for the House to
!termine whether or not they would maintain the
;age which had prevailed of giving previous notice
if such an intention.
Mr. PONSONDY observed, that he certainly un-
terstood that the Noble Lord meant to make an im-
aediate motion. The ordinary usage of giving
notice was not applicable in the present case ; for as
the thanks were to be moved on Monday, and as the
House was not accustomed to sit ofi Saturday, the
Noble Lord had no other opportunity of making his
motion than the present.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
ieclared, that if the motien of the Noble Lord re-
lated to the production of, the sentence only of the
Court Martial on Lord Gambier, he had no objcc-
;on whatever to it ; but if it extended to the minutes
)1 that Court Martial, he was decidedly of opinion,
Oat a proposition to reconsider the trial of an officer
in a case of life and death, was of too much impor-
• nice to be acceded to without at least due time for

Consideration.
Mr. 'TIERNEY remarked, that the Noble Lord
had taken the earliest opportunity that presented it.
lelf to hint to make this motion, after having been
Ipprised that it was the intention of the Right Hon.
Gentlemur opposite to propose a vote of thanks to
Lord Gambier. He thought the best way would be
'or that Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone
ia motion to a future day. As to the sentence of
the Court Martial, he did not conceive that, unac-
companied by the minutes of evidence, it would be
sufficient for the House. That sentence pronounced
Lord Gambier not guilty, but it did not follow that
he minutes of evidence fnight not strew that his Lord-
41iip was not entitled W 410 aperQbatios cif l'arl4-
petit.

The CHANCELLOL• he tXCII
said, that if the Noble Lord would postpone his tisn-1
tion until Monday, and the House should then think
that the minutes of the trial ought to be produced, he
would postpone his motion for thanks. If the lionse
should determine that the sentence alone should be
laid on the table, he would take care that it should
be immediately forthcoming.
Lord COCHRANE acquiesced in this arrange-
ment. On the production of thesedocumens the would
pledge himself to prove, that
The SPEAKER again intetrupted the Noble
I Lord, observing, that he understood it to be the sense
of the House, that the Noble Lord should not, at pre-
! sent, enter into any details, but should confine him-
self simply to a notice.
j Lord COCHRANE accordingly gave notice, that
on Monday he would move for the production of the
i minutes of the Court Martial on Lord Gambier.

LICENSES FROM TIIF. BOARD OF TRADE.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the House went into the consider-
ation of the Speech of the Lords Commissioners.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved a resolution of the House « that a supply be

granted to his Majesty."
Mr. CREEVEY wished to make some observa-
tiorson that part of the Speech which related to the

supply.
After an observation from the SPEAKER with re-
spect to the irregularity of any discussion on a gene-
ral motion for granting a supply to his Majesty,
Mr. CREEVEY proceeded. He requested the
indulgence of the House lin. a short period, while he
'proposed some questions to the Gentlemen opposite.
The first passage of the speech on which he was anxi-
ous to remark, was 'hat in which the country was
congratulated on th flourishing state of the revenues;
a state which was scribed to the system of licenses,
than which no i sument in the hands of Govern-
ment could in I . opinion be more destructive to the
general intere' . It was well known also that fo-
reign produc were obtained hot by the exchange for
them of hcir commodities, but by the exportation
of bullion ; an exportation so considerable as to occa-
sion the most alarming deficiency in the general cir-
culation of specie. 'rhe profit on the exportation of
gold amounted to 32 per cent. The House must
perceive that this system would lead to the deprecia-
tion of paper, and ultimately to national ruin, was
this system to be continued. An Honourable Bart.
had last night adverted to the omission in the Speech
of all mention of India ; an omission as surprising to
him as it was to that Honourable Bart. That im-
mense member of the Empire, which produced a re-
venue of L 5 millions, had not been heard of in that
House these fur years. He understood, however,
that it was in the contemplation of the Company to
apply to Parliament, during the present Session, for a
loan of two millions. Was that true ? He had also
heard that it was in contemplatioti to propose the re-
newal of the Company's Charter. Indeed if that
proposition were not made during the present Session,
the Charter 4vould be virtually abandoned, as by the
Act notice must be given of such an intention on the
part of the Directors by March next. He wished
for information on this subject, which was of the ut-
most importance, especially when it was considered
that the Directors attributed all their misfortunes to,
Lord Wellesley, who was now a principal Member of
the Cabinet.
Mr. ROSE, in reply to the questions of the Hon.
Gentleman respecting the Trade Licenses, observed,
that they were adopted to oppose the oppressive mea-'
sures of a person at the head of the Government of
France. The Honourable Gentleman had asserted!
that we had no commerce, and that we paid for every
thing in bullion. This was a complete misstate-
ment. The fact was, that the exportation of home
manufactures was greater by millions than during
any former year. He admitted however that the
state of exchange was against us ; but if he were to
enter into any explanation on this subject it would ne-
cessarily lead him into more extensive details than it
was advise:tble to offer to the House on the present
occasion: when the House should go into a Commit-
tee on the subject, he pledged himself to prove the
accuracy of his statements. The Honourable Gen-
tleman talked of abuses in the distribution of licenses-
He could only say, that he had never heard of any
abuses, and that the utmost pains had been taken to
prevent their occurrence.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in
addition• to what had been said by his Right Hon.
Friend on the subject of Lances, stated the question
to be, whether in the present circumstances of the,
world, it was or was not expedient to meet by that
system the inconveniences which the system of the
env.fly occasioned. If the Hon. Gentleman would
bring this -subject fairly before the House, he would
find it difficult to prove the negative of this question.
The trade of Great Britain, during the last year, was
unexampled, not only in the history of this country,
but in the history of the world. He would repeat
what he had stated on Tuesday night, namely, that
the exports, exclusive of bullion, exceeded by seven
millions the most prosperous antecedent year of
peace ; and by ten millions the most prosperous ante-
cedent year of war. The Hon. Gentleman would
have therefore to prove, that a system under which
the trade of Great Britain had increased to a fifth
more than the bulk to which it had ever heretofore
arrived, was a system which Parliament ought to be
called upon immediately to terminate. With respect
Ito the abuses hinted at by the Hon. Gentleman, in
the granting of licences, lie wished that he had com-
rmunicated his knowledge of those abuses to the
Board whence the licences proceeded, persuaded as
the Honourable Gentleman must be (as he did not
imagine that he imputed to the Board a connivance
in those abuses) that such information would have
been received. with grateful acknowledgement.—
With respect to what had fallen from the Hon. Gen-
tleman, as to any intention of proposing pecuniary
:assistance to the East-India Company, this was not
the period for offering any opinion on that subject.
On the result of the labours of the Committee on
East-India Affairs, which he supposed would be re-
ceived, the House would judge of the propriety of'
affbrdmg or withholding such assistance. 'With
respect to the Charter, the Honourable Gentleman
well. knew that any proposition on that subject must
originate not with Government but with the East-
India Company themselves.
Mr. TIERNiEY asserted that the great cause of
apparenttl increase of trade during the last year,

the

merchants rrom iMporting and exporting at pleasure,
and the wevulsiolt Which resulted froth the -prior
stoppage of the ports. It was too much that Go-
vernmerbt.should take credit to themselves for mea-
sures which had not produced the effects ascribed to
them. With respect to what had been said of abuses
in the granting of licenses, he did not mean to state
that gross corruption and partiality had taken place,
but that it might have taken place. Suppose, for
instance, that under this new fangled system licenses
to trade to a certain port were granted for a week,
and then suddenly stopped, might not a person who
had obtained a license during that period get a va-
luable consideration for it ? The fact was, that this
had been done ; and that a license of the sort which
he had been describing had actually been sold for a
thousand pounds. Did he mean to charge the Board
of Trade, or the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite,
who was a principal Member of that Board, with any
corrupt view in this transaction ? Certainly not. Still
however it might possibly result from partial motives.
Every bo.iy knew that he who has something to give
was apt to get something in return. When a vote in
the House of Commons became of great value, it was
not easy to say how it might be purchased, or what
inducement might be held out to an individual to sit
up a few hours longer than usual, in order to give
his,support to Government. Without intending to
insinuate that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite
had made such a use of the system of licenses as that
which he had been describing, he thought it but just,
when its excellence was so much vaunted, to touch ,
upon a few of the injurious consequences to which it
might perchance lead.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
explained, by saying he never had spoken of the Or-
ders in Council, or the system of lie Jo, as eligible,
measures ; on the contrary, he though.. tnem ineligi-
ble ; but they were forced upon the Government by

the existing circumstances.
Mr. ROSE assured the Right Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Tierney) that in issuing those licenses the most
perfect impartiality was observed, and no man's po-
litical principles or conduct ever thought of on such
occasions.
Mr. PONSONBY attributed the comparative pros-
perity of our commerce of late, not to the Orders
in Council, nor the licensing system, but to the tem-
porary suspension of the American Embargo and
Non-intercourse, under an idea that all differences
were adjusted with Mr. Erskine (hear, hear, hear !) ;
and to the occurrence of the Austrian war, which
attracted all the French troops from the ports of
Holland and Germany.
Mr. STEPHENS spoke at some length in support I
of the Orders in Council, and expressed his own satis • I
faction in finding that measure, his own off•pring,
the source of so much prosperity to this cc untry. In
allusion to what had fallen from Mr. Tierney, he said,'
the Right Hon. Gentleman had this night illustrated
the axiom, that memory was in the inverse ratio of cult ;
for though the Right Hon. Gentleman had been at
much pains to display his wit on this subject, his
memory seemed totally to have failed hint ; no man
had taken more pains to inform himself during the
examination at that Bar, respecting the Orders in
Council, yet he seemed totally to have forgotten, that
the result of the measure to this country was an un-
paralleled increase of trade. He therefore trusted his
Majesty's present Ministers, who had the approbation
and thanks of all the merchants of this country,
would never be induced to abandon a system, proved
by experience to be of such important advantages, in
order to adopt theories that were directly contradicted
by the most ample range of experiment.
Mr. WHITBREAD supported the arguments of
Mr. Tierney, and without directly charging Ministers'
with any partial abuse of their discretion, in the issue
of licenses, yet he thought it placed a power in heir
hands, which held out constant temptations to abuse,
not always in the power of human nature to resist.
Mr. WILBERFORCE felt it due in justice to his
Majesty's Ministers, to declare, that in proposing the
bill to prevent the exportation of bark, their object was
not to prevent the enemy from getting bark but oblige
them, it they were to get bark from this country at
all, to get it with a certain proportion of other arti-
cles. He was ready to grant, that the mode of car-
rying on our trade by licenses was very objectionable,
and liable to great suspicion ; and it was one of the
unhappy features of the times that it was necessary to
resort to such a practice. It was not to be supposed,
if an increase of seven millions had taken place in the
exports of the country, that any improper selection
had been made of the persons to whom licenses had
been granted. It must be obvious that they had been
granted indiscriminately to the whole of the com-
mercial body, and not restricted to the friends of the
Government.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that the mei -
candle inhabitants of the out-ports, more particularly
in Ireland, comp Lined loudly of the system of licen-
ses, as operating as a check upon fair trade, which it
converted into a lottery, a gaming speculation. This
system of licences had the effect of laying the trade
of the whole country at the mercy of the metropolis ;
not in consequence of any undue preference, but be-
cause the merchants of the metropolis, from their lo-
cal situation, must be sooner informed when licences
were stopped, and when granted, than it was possi-
ble for the merchants of the out-ports to be. This!
was a ground of objection very seriously felt by the
very respectable body he represented ; and he was
determined to take an early opportunity to bring the
matter under the consideration of the House.
Mr. SIMEON was of opinion that the Orders in
Council were like every other measure of policy—in-
tended to be strict only when they could injure the
national enemy, and relaxed when they might benefit
ourselves. It was admitted that trade had flourished.
It was absurd to conceive that the system which be-
nefited the whole should be radically injurious to the
parts. If the body of British Merchants were satis-
fied and grateful, it was idle to say that the individu-
als of that body were materially injured by the conti-
nuance of the system.
Mr. BARING felt himself called to say something
on the subject before the House. It was the great
misfortune of the trade of the country that its suc-
cesses could not be attributable to any species of fore-
sight in those employed to superintend its interests.
In looking to the Members of the Board of Trade, he
could find but one man acquainted with its dual,—
' The remaining Members were lawyers, men in public
stations, &c. Even a Bishop was among them ; and

yet to thosel men, frill') whom it was idle to look c;
--ie.thenol ipb'le'lr'taia"
the commercial knowledge arising from comme .jr:i
experience, the whole trade of the country was (...,c„.;
mined. It was equally idle to pretend that anv .
ataipd:obsupr
inityd,efituacnicteaosf . s
of our boasted prosperity was generated by the Uri;, •
I in
existed
theh
of those Orders ; they had never been full) acted IT.
on ; they had been relaxed from the fit if ill-cnieat;',i
moment of their adoption. They might have p; ~,,,..,
ed us hostility, but they had done nothing to prozur.
ass trade. The-exports were not an adequate test,_.
An immense export of raw cotton sent out of EnA
land, in defiance of her own policy, was not a ;404
of this vigour of commerce. Let those sanguine ca,
culators look to the state of foreign exchange. 1,;
them enquire the price of bullion, and then determ;
whether the sudden flush of commerce be the • 4-4
full ani natural health, or the sudden hue of • -
a s• tc.e
an unnatural, and an enfeebling repletion.
Notice Was given of a motion on Monday, fir
Committee of surly.
Mr. ROSt gave notice) that lie should, on 4,‘toi,
day, move for a Return of the lmpotts and Expora.
of the last year.
EXPZ.DITIeN TO WALCHEREN.
Lord DORCHESTER said, lie had to call the at•
tention of the House to no common or trivial subjecl:
The matter which it was his duty to lay before tun
was unfortunately of a nature that hung heavy on the
honour of the Country. He had to speak I,f re.
national misfortune ; and he came down t-, ;ii,it
House to claim of their tribunal national pitnishaniat
against the authors of that misfortune. His nest ia-
tention had been to institute his inquiry upon the ea,
tire system ; but in this complicated train of calann.
ties, where nothing was uniform but the folly by,
which they were occasioned, he would now select but
one—one singly sufficient to excite the just indigna.
tion of the House, as it had already excited the deep
sorrow of the Country. Inquiry was demanZed.• He
had heard of Noble Lords in that House whia avowea
that they would cow inquiry ; that they would soh.
cit its most searching, minute, rigorous exnminaii In ;
that they disdainethenercy, that they. would not owe
their acquittal to any thing but their. innocence ; and
in default of that acquittal, were willing to bow down
before the most stern and penal retribution—yet wizla
all this pomp of pretention, there would still-45e at
tempts at evasion. He felt that the dignity of t't
Country was connected with its justice, and he sh till
therefore move for a Committee of the 1 I Biases
1 ...VISV,
Ito examine into the policy of the late Expedition.
He should of course . hear the usual childish oilar
f uges--,, Why will you agitate the measure be C,:e it;
time ? Why will you move- for a Committee brf,r:
we have given you the papers ?" But he moved t::•
a Committee to judge of those papers. He demanded
the establishment of a suitable tribunal before he
would open his case. The House Irma be pledged
to go into inquiry. His object was not then to dis-
cuss the merits of that investigation—not' to put the
inquiry, but the Ministers upon trail—to give an ire
jured people the only consolation fiat their injuriesll7
the brilliant prospects which they, had lost, for the
dreary ones which were now spread before their eves
—to pursue the authors of the. evil. through all tiler
windings—to trace them through!all their obliquities
—to strip off the robe of their ooncealment, and shear
them in their nude and shivering- guilt, before the
eyes of the people. In passing over the pages (Atli&
most melancholy detail, he was it a loss where t
fix his first charge, there was so much similarity ci
evil—so dark and unvarying a colour of disgrace and
disappointment. On every line of our late history,
the system, taken as a whole, was so uncolinectti
'with wisdom, or principle, or use, that he wild
hardly exert a power of selection. He was not fond
of using severe language. He was willing to net-
cite the liberal judgment of a Member of that great
Assembly. He would prejudge nothing. But if mis-
fortunes such as sickened the heart to think of, had
been generated by the folly or presumption of Mi-
nisters, he could not submit to use the calm and
courtly compliments that might suit their ear. They
had been eccentric, but their eccentricity was only a
snore varied folly. It was not like the wandering of
those sublime and superior geniuses, which appear to
have been sent at intervals to lighten the darkness of
the world—those mighty and powerful capacities,
whose course was not to be calculated ; as it was not
to be restrained by the laws that are suited to hunilr
ler minds ; in their swift and brilliant progress, giveig
a new impulse and vitality to the general system-4
'nee exalting the eye of man by their elevation, and
nlightening it by their splendour. But the eccen-
.city of Ministers had no attribute of mind—lt was
the restless and wayward wandering of a spirit that
scorned to submit to the controul of- commit
sense—the eccentricity of perpetual error—the ems-
tricity of a starved, shallow-brained, projecting spi!t
of expedient and experiment ; of expedient, wliidi
shewed nothing but the barrenness of their inventiK,
and of experiment, which shewed nothing but the
poverty of their knowledge. He would acknowledge •
that when he heard the congratulation in the Kini
Speech on the result of the campaign, lie could Let
have expected to find that the only nutriment of o•
juicing which the Ministers condescended to thrt:w
before the eager appetite of the country, was th,r e,e•
structicn of a basin, the blowing up of a sluice, allit
the filling up of a dock. Splendid fruits of conqueso
But if he might not presume to question its valw,
the national enemy would save him the trouble. 'll.e
French had already declared, that the damage w:l5
trifling, and that it might be easily repaired it ociq
did not prevent it. Our enemies had the unparano
ed insolence to tell his Majesty's Ministers that .:,-'r
conquests have been worth nothing, or only pre:lo*
ble tee France.—The avowed Object if the late EN' ..-
dition bid been to assist Austria. Tie determination
of the Austrian Cabinet to try her 4trengtir r• ,n
France was known for a long period antecedent 0
her actual hostilities. The first battle was fought en
the Bth of April ; the battle of Aspern, on the 21ft
and 22d of May. From that time to the 6th ofinti
the Conqueror ot%Lurope was reduced to act, foi
Al,,e
first time, on the defensive. On the 12th, the .
mistice took place, and on do: 28th• sailed our EIP,.e.
dition. It would -have been too much in the old?
nary practice of great m litury characters, to send as
armament when or where it might be etlectualt!
useful ; but we were cautious and provident ;I'
lingered and loitered while exertion was necessary'
we rushed forward,. while to have stood back woug.,
have bten policy. W'hen Austria was stlaillins

•g 1

House. At the tomtit(
posed the Bth May as th
Bill, i. e. the reception of
to propose the 7th May
one day in the limit of tl
had in view was to dim
reception of petitions fo:
sequent stages of those
to those Bills a more am
sing their previsions.
lotions, viz.
" 'That the House wt
Bills after Friday, the 9t
" 'that the House a
Monday, the 19th Mar
Tkat the House sv
Bills after I\ londay, the
It would be observed
Tate 'Rills would, by the
and the period for ree
beyond the corresponds
Mr. ROTE expresses
by his Right Hon. Friel
Bids, would, in some c;
The CIIANCELI C
• was desirable to establi:
shot& be presented wi
in Cases of peculiar di.
To the circumstances
lb* period, and deem
The Resolutions w
printed.
Mr. BANKS,
subj.icts of import
•
that evening, witl
leave to bring in
of last session pert
, day ; a delay to
duced, from undi
which unfortunatt
As, however, the
(for the existing
the commenceme•
fer his motion lou
The CHANC
observed, that th
Order Book for
bably excite disc
his Right Honou
sequent day. W
in the measure,
whatever pet iod •
were it. poster iur
then his Majesty
which the princil
should oppose tl
Honourable hri
pend the power I
If his Right Hoi
would recommei
he might bring f
Mr. BANKS
dingly fixed for
Lord COCHI
was the intentio
pose on Monda)
Lord Gambier,
previous produt
Martial which h
and he pledged
not only that—
The SPEAK
• the Noble Lord
tion, it was irrl
however, it era:
the House at th,
determine whet
usage which ha.
of such an inter
Mr. PONS()
derstood that th
mediate motioi
notice was not
the thanks were
House was not
Noble Lord ha,
• motion than the
The CHAT
declared, that
lated to the pr
Court Martial
tion whatever I
of that Court
*at a proposit
in a case of lift
t nice to be acc
consideration.
Mr. TIE IU
had taken the
self to hint tc
apprised that
Gentlemin op
Lord Gambier
fUr that Right
'ilia motion
the Court Ma
CoMpanieti by
sufficient for tI
Lord Gambier
the minutes Of
ship was not
spent.

to repeat, !minis", sr no zrotomy
pose he should move for " a Committee of the wn..
House on Monday next, to take into consideration
Ithe policy and cond uc tof the expedition toWalcheren."
Mr, W. QUIN censured the conduct of_ the Expe.
dition. The ignorance of the officers appointed to
command it, of the nature of the country, and the
force against which they had to contend, was ladien-
table indeed. The Honourable Gentleman then took
a succinct view of the whole of the operations. The,
object originally was, the destruction of certain arse-
nals and a number of ships. Instead of this, we de-
stroyed a sea-wall, took an insignificant town, and
lost a considerable pot tion of our gallant army.—
Lord Chatham had stated, in one of his dispatches,
that Antwerp was completely defended, having an
army of 35,000 risen, not one of whom he ( Mr. Q )
thought he might venture to say, had ever been op-
posed to our Austrian Allies. He thought the House
could have no motive for refusing to go into the in-
quiry.
Mr. CROKER rose, and expressed a wish that the
'duty of replying to the Noble Mover, and Honoura-
ble Seconder of this motion, had fallen into abler
hands ; but feeling at the same time, that in the
course of the evening he would have to call upon the
House to vote against the motion, he thought that
he could at no time do it with less appearance of pre-
sumption, than when the House was on the point of
going to a division. The speeches of the Noble Lord,
and of the Honourable Gentleman who followed,
were filled with a variety of topics, in themselves in-
consistent and contradictory. The Noble Lord had
throughout his speech made it a ground of his mo-
tion, that an inquiry was refused. He had heard
with great personal pleasure, the splendid oratory of
the Noble Lora, and of the Hon. Seconder ; hut good
oratory, like good poetry, was better for a little fic-
tion.—(4 laugh). The Noble Lord assumed that no
Inquiry was intended, and that it was the intention
'of Government to shelter certain persons. Bat whom
were they to screen ? Were they thoie individuals
who were no longer Members of the Government
(Hear, hear, from the Omatilion Beneher.) If not then,
what became of those taunts and sarcasms respecting
the disunion of Councils ? The Noble Lord had
asked why the Expedition had been sent to Walche-
ren, and not to Italy-or the North of Germany ? But
it was obvious that it was much more desirable to
send it to a destination within twenty-four hours sail
of our own coast than to more distant points. But
these were questions not to be discussed at that '
time. The whole of the Noble Lord's reasoning
had been founded on a detail of facts, which, as
the documents were nut before the House, must
remain uncontradicted by them, but which he would
take upon him to assert were either wholly with-
out foundation, or greatly exaggerated. The Noble
Lord's assertions had been made with confidence ; but
he, though he could not boast of the same confidence
with_the Noble Lord, (a laugh, and hear, hear !) yet
would affirm most strongly that the Noble Lord's
facts were incorrect, or greatly exaggerated. In this
state of the question, with the preponderance on his
side, as he had seen the documents, it was impossible
for the House to decide between him and the Noble
Lord till the documents should be laid on the table.
The course pursued by the Noble Lord had been un-
fair and uncandid towards his Majesty's Government.
(Hear, hear, hear !)—He had taken the dates of the
battles of Aspern and Wagram correctly, but he had
not taken the date when the Expedition was ready to
sail, The account of the battle of Aspern was not
received till the Bth of June in this country ; and on
the following day, the 9th, the Expedition was under-
taken. But the Noble Lord had asked, why the Ex-
pedition had not been undertaken before the intelli-
gence of the battle of Aspern ? His Majesty had in-
formed the House, that he had not incited Austria
to the war ; and if this country, before it knew that
Austria was engaged in the war—before it knew that
the die was cast, and that the fate of Austria was in
its own hands, had exhausted its resources by expedi-
tions, he would assert that Ministers would have in-
curred a much heavier responsibility, than if the fai-
lure of the Expedition was attributable to them. As
to the observations which had been made on the
conduct of the operations, it was a strong symptom
of the decline of military feeling/ in the country,
that such a disposition prevailed to depreciate mili-
tary Commanders abroad. Whether they managed
so as to preserve their armies, or nobly advanced
without regarding minor considerations, to risk every
thing where the stake was worth risking, they were
alike subjects of calumny and detraction. In the good
old times, officers were left to their . discretion, and
their actions were considered favourably, and even
their errors were overlooked. In the times of the
great Marlborough, the spirit oldie times put down
that calumnious practice. He had paid particular
attention to the ,Noble Lord, and thought he deserv-
ed a better return at his hands ; but the inattention of
the Noble Lord would disenthral him from the same
obligation in future. The Noble Lord had said, that
he would not enter into any consideration of the cam-
paign in Spain, and yet had afterwards, for the pur-
pose, as it would appear, of contrasting the conduct
of the enemy with that of our Government, adverted
to the progress of Soult towards the south. But the
army at Placentia was not Souk's alone, it contained
those of Ney and Mortier also. The facts of the No-
ble Lord were contradicted by the statements of the
Hon. Gentleman who followed him ; but both, he
'contended, were unworthy of credence. Did the
Noble Lord mean to say, that the papers, when pro-
duced, might not justify both the time, the destina-
tion, and the execution of the Expedition. He did
not mean to say that no Inquiry was to take place,
but that the House should first know what it was to
inquire about. If the fault was with Ministers then
Parliamentary Inquiry would be most proper ; but if
the Officers thought it should go to a Court-Martial,
why than should they go into a species of Inquiry,
which would be as injurious to the public service, as
destructive of public justice ? (Loud cries of hear,
hear.) He repeated that such a mode of inquiry was
I not likely to promote public justice ; because as to a
late memorable case, he never had heard a Gentleman
on either side of the House say, that he was satisfied
with the decision. (Hear, hear, hear.) The Hon.
Gentleman then proceeded to reply to the statements
of the Hon. Seconder, which he contended would. be
proved to be unfounded when the documents should
be produced. (Hear, hear.) Honourable Members
may not belii.ve his assertion, and in that they would
support his argument to wait for the documents. He

Slast gall) of that mortal decal which lootight
glory to the grave, we prepared our medicine.
'en the gave tip the struggle, we came forward
kery of our aids and administered our
:111 the mac
edicine to the dead. Why did not the Expedition
it to the Mediterranean or to the North ? Why
re
not the troops landed in Italy or Istria ? Was
w be
tom thar we were in want of specie—that it
e difficult to deal with a German or an Italian
more
Jew—that all that a Dutchman would ask
sto be satisfied by puffs and proclamations, and
per moneY Was he to hear that the troops could
it have been prepared, because Sir John Moore's
y WAJ to have been the basis of the force, and that
unfit for service—that army which these
ice
Ministers had vaunted as returning with a corn-
,-atively trifling loss, with all its artillery and equi-
Qe, unreduced in spirit, and uninjured in vigour?
:
e was sorry to be forced to draw comparisons, be-
. en our folly and the wisdom and energy of the
'stet of Europe. But the contrast forced itself upon
• mild of every man of common observation. On
IsJi of May, Marshal Soult was said to have sus-
fled not. so much a repulse, as a total ruin in Portu.
I—his army forced to scatter itself through that
.Id :Ilid hostile country—the fourth of his Army cut
Pieces or taken—not a gun left, not a horse—his
driven °award without intermission, not towards
c protection of his ships, not towards e shelter of
is own shore, hut through a ruined and wasted ter-
-tory —through that very Gallicia, whose difficulties
rcre slid to have been the ruin of Sir J. Moore's
rim. Yet on the 3d of August, Marshal Soult was
Placentia, a place which he could have reached
lr after a circuitous march of many hundred miles
his army in full equipment—his artillery complete,
Id ready to chase his former pursuer from the cowl
• through which he himself had been supposed to
'ander as a fugitive. This sudden recovery from dis-
ier was the criterion of a General. When Frederic
as beaten before Prague, he advanced with his army
Lis broken, spoiled, and beggared army—yet with
.i, army be met the French at Rasbach ! and swept
;ern before him. Was it to be said, that there was a
Eciency of transports, or that the transports were
be detained until the success of Lord Wellington's
tilts was known ? 'What language was to be found
a the incapacity which planned two such expedi-
i,ni, at once involving each other in their failure,
lit contributing ttothtng to their mutual success;
nibincd in their evil, but disunited in their advan-
re • and where had they been sent in the result ?
l'o what possible point of contact with the Austrian
~,minion ? Were they not sent, as if by a fatal and
.s.ine perversion of all choice, to that precise point
here their efforts must have been exposed to obstruc-
;on ; a strong country, well affected to the enemy,'
idedly hostile to our interference ; where at every
,ep we must have had a fortress to besiege, and
here the consummation of our success was to be the
'lons and unprofitable glory of a coup de main. But
the campaign were planned against all principle, it
as put in act against all usage. The principles that
France viltorious were to direct the main force
o the main object, and distracting the hostile force,
o concentrate their own. How were these maxims
&awed by our matchless cabinet ? They determined
o attack Antwerp, and they began by dividing their
Ora to attack a miserable and useless smuggling
own. On the 28th of July they sailed. They knew
at the spirit of a coup de main is activity. But they
solved to exhibit to the world an operation on a new
vale, and try the effect of a surprise after a month's
rake of their intention. It might not have been de-.
og.itory to the character of an Officer to enquire
to the nature of the country in which he was to
carry on his campaign. But Ministers were too
much enamoured of their discoveries in the art ofi
war to violate a single principle of the theory. In-
activity was adequately associated with ignorance.
They had yet to learn that Antwerp was a fortified
town, and Lord Chatham with 40,000 men were sent
out to act the part of spies, and reconnoitre the naked-
less of the land. But why had Walcheren been re-
timed until we were forced to give it up by the havoc
c 1 its climate ? Was it to serve as a demonstration of
our zeal in favour of Austria? Was it for the ingenious
amusement of imposing on the simplicity of Bona-
parte? Was it to force him to quit his pref ? Was it
while Austria was palpitating and writhing ender his
rasp, to force this flexible and unpurposed man to
quit his hold, to release his victim, and come across
the continent, to enter into an altercation with us for
Walcheren, to contend, with an exhausted and expir-
ing army, the dreadful precedency of death in the most
pestilential climate of the world ! He would make no
personal objection to Lord Chatham; but without an
idea of hurting individual feeling, he must express his
%I-prise at such an appointment. He should have
looked to some hardy and vigorous veteran, some
nun known to the soldier, and to whom the soldier
to'la have looked up with confidence. There was
hat one solution : the project which none but the Mi-
Listry could understand, none but the Ministry could
"wite— the miserable offspring of their dotage—the
illthaPpy banding which bore in all its movements the
tr arts of the combined incapacities of all its parents
—was not to be committed into the rude and uncour-
teous hands of a stranger. What were the prospects
with which we commenced the campaign ? An army,
wrong in numbers, high in discipline") unbroken in
spirit : that army had been sent to perish in the char•
cel-howes of Holland. We had allies, prepared to
take a fierce and final struggle against the common
13Pressor. We had wasted the resources of the coun-
trY we had killed the hope of the allies. If there
ter was a time for inquiry, a time in which it was
connected, not with Our fame but with our being, it
xis the present. The expectation of the country, mid
the Noble Lord, is directed towards us.—(Some laugh-
frfan the Ministerial Benches.) Sir, Ido not speak'
here in the language or feeling of a party : 'tis to this
House; 'tis to us the eye of every man who thinks
for the country is turned. He implored the House
tot to suffer the stain of the Ministerial weakness to fix
upon their purity, not to lose the confidence of the na-
tion, by a blind confidence in the faith of men, who
had already deceived the hopes of the empire. We
had still much to encounter, but we had much to
lose ; if true to ourselves, we might still protect the
Constitution from the strength of its enemies and the
inpntence of its rulers. If feeble or failing in our
duty
we might see Ministers fall, but it would be only
.the general destruction ; the huge and scattering
mn that involved all that was sacred, and dear, and
lonoarable in the country. lie had but one question

as w i et tt %toll C uccalfmn, ulna 111111‘ aav `•^••• _
his Majesty to vote foe' this Inquiry, when be had guidon for the Inquiry'. This was no time for shuf-
assured them that satisfactory documents should be fling; and if they wished to set aside the distrust
laid before them. The Hon. Gentleman concluded ; which had been industriously excited against that
by moving the previous cosestion. ' House, nothing could remove it more effectually than
Mr. BA'rHURST could not help admiring the to agree to the Inquiry.—(Hear, hear, hear!)—lf
lively manner and animated oratory of the Hon. they should not, he would tell them that something
Gentleman who had just-Sat down ; but doubted worse might come.. ( Hear, hear.) The prosperity
much whether his Majesty's Ministers had, in select- of this country, which contained more wealth, com-
ing him, chosen the best General to conduct the de- i forts, and happiness than any other in the world, was
fence of the expedition. That Hon. Gentleman had 'an object worth securing by inquiry. He was not
thought proper to charge upon the Noble Lord who ! for any newfangled doctrines, for altering or refor-
brought forward this motion, with having acted in an ming the state of the Representation in that House ;
uncandid manner ; but that Hon. Member was not but he thought that Parliament should go further
an old Member, and that might account for the man- i than the present inquiry, and appoint a Committee
nor in which he had animadverted upon the conduct to examine into sinecure offices. The; ought to take
and speech of that Noble Lord. He had himself care that no man should hold a place without doing
risen principally in consequence of the Hon. Gentle- the duties of the office. They should ascertain what
man's attempt to hamper the discussions in that every man did for his money. (Near, hear.) It wus
House, by the unguarded manner in which he had more particularly necessary now whet the tax-ga-
introduced the sacred name of his Majesty--(Hear, therers were at every man's door, threatening to pro-
Hear.)—He was prepared to tontendohat the adop- ceed to extremities, unless they were paid ; and what
Lion of the motion would nut be disrespectful to his the orders for such rigour were given by persons
Majesty, and that it was the undoubted right of that holding sinecure offices of ten or twenty thousand a
House to discuss the conduct of Ministers, as well as year. He should, therefore, support the motion.
the propriety of every measure of Administration. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
The Hon. Gentleman had, in this instance, endea- fully acknowledged that the conduct of his Right
voured to impose a restriction upon the discretion of Hon. Friend (Mr. Bathurst) this night, and his con-
the House, which he felt it his duty to resist. Though duct on the former night, was perfectly consistent.
he had voted on the former night with the major. With respect to the manner in which the Noble
ty, he did not look upon himlelf fettered as to his Lord had brought forward his Motion, nothing, he
vote on this occasion. As he had been misunder- said, could be more fair and candid. He stated dis-
stood with respect to the grounds of that vote, which tinctly that what he wanted the House to determine
had not given satisfaction to the Gentlemen on either upon was, whether they should enter into an inquiry
side, he begged to state the reasons that induced him now, or not, upon the information they should here-
to vote as had done. It was his opinion, that the after possess ?—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial ride of
words of the Amendment that proposed inquiry went tk Hour..)—That, he apprehended, was the real state
farther than that object, in anticipating the result of of the question. Gentlemen misunderstood the subject,
the inquiry, and, therefore, he could not vote for it. it they thought that it was a question, whether the
The question now under considerat'on was, whether House was to have any Inquiry at all ? The only goes-
the House should vote now that an Inquiry should tion before them was, Whether such an Inquiry should
be instituted, or not vote for such Inquiry till aft T be made in the Committee of the whole House ?
the documents should be produced. By moving the Now, really, viewing the question in that light, he
previous question, the Honourable Gentleman ad- must say, that it WAS rather a singular proposition to
mitted, that a ponta facie case for Inquiry existed.— call upon the House to go into an Inquiry before the
But as the House was of opinion that some Inquire House had any informal ton upon which it could form
was necessary, if ever there was a time when it was a judicial opinion. fie apprehended di it, to say
particularly so it was the present, when so much of the least of it, it was a very emature step to take.
the fortune and fame of the country depended upon Had the Noble Lord done him the honour to put to
the issue. All that the House was then called upon. him one question, before he brought forward his mo-
to vote was, that a Committee should be appointed tints, namely, how soon it was possible for him (Mr.
to make the inquiry; but it would not follow that Perceval) to lay the promised papers on the subject
such inquiry should be proceeded with if it should op- of the Expedition before the House ? He appre-
pear by the documents when produced, that no inqoiry hended the answer he would have given, must have
was necessary. He admitted that such inquiries ware precluded the necessity of this debate. He had now
productive of inconveniencies, by withdrawing officers to say, for the information of the House, that he
from theirduty ; but then therewere several points which would be extremely sorry if those Papers were no:
no papers could elucidate, and which could only be laid on the Table by Monday next.— (Hear, hear.)
come at by viva vcc: examinations. It was impossi- He had also to state, with a view to accelerate the
ble for ani Papers to prove that a sufficient number production of the promised documents as much as
of boats had been provided for landing the troops at possible, measures were taken that whilst the clerks
Walcheren. It was alike impossible for Papers to were copying some papers, others were put into
skew what the probability was that Antwerp, on a the hands of the printers ; and he could assure the
coup ds main, would be found in a different state from House, that if they were not ready in a printed form
on Monday, by -Tuesday at farthest they should
that in which it afterwards appeared to be. He
wished to know what were the probabilities of the be laid before the House printed or unprinted.—
hear.) That being the state of the question,
success of the Expedition—what the calculations upon (Hear,
which they were founded, and also upon what grounds he apprehended that the question nova to be put from
it was expected that the Expedition would arrive in a the Chair was, whether the House would determine
given time at a given point. These were *objects -to have an Inquiry, when they had reeson to observe
which no papers could explain, and which could only that on Monday they would have all the necessary
be learned front viva voce examinations. So also with documents - ( Hear, hear,) and which lie trusted
respect to the continuance of the British troops inWal. would put the House in possession of that degree of
cheren so long, and the grounds upon which that information, which his Majesty in his Speech, had
told them he trusted would be satisfactory. An Ho-
point also, which he wished to have ascertained by i nourable Gentleman from behind (Mr. Fuller) told
Inquiry, upon what ground it was thought that this the House that the whole country was desirous of in-
Expedition would be a diversion in favour of Austria? quirt'.--(Help, hear.) —The proceedings adopted
This was not a military but a political subject, upon with that view were certainly very strange- He was
which the Members of that House were as competent humbly of opinion, that the object of all inquiry was
to obtain information, but lie believed it was not the
to judge as professional men. The House ought to
pledge itself to the Inquiry, and to constitute the tri- ordinary course of justice to determine to punish be-
bunal. The disposition to animadvert upon the con
fore it was proved there were grounds fur conviction.
.'
duct of officers abroad, arose out of the nature of a The object of Gentlemen scanted to be to get a vote
free Government and character of a free people. At for inquiry, upon information hereafter to be laid be-
fore them--(llear, Hear.)—Surely such a proceeding
all times of our history, the best officers, who might
be concerned in unsuccessful expeditions, were the was not fair after the promises made by Is s Majesty,
subjects of much animadversion. that every information should be given to his Portia.
Mr. FULLER declared himself of the same opi- talent upon the subject of these campaigns. He was
nion with the Right Honourable Gentleman who not a little surprised at the view his Right Hon.
had just sat down ; but really that Gentleman gener-
•Fr eid Mr. Battu r t lal taken f the subject.—
ally spoke so long, that he was almost tempted to He had heard a good deal of Parliamentary tactics,
leave the room—(a buy of murmur, and Order, order!) but he thought Gentlemen did not display much skill
However, as there were so many of them in the in that science, on the first night of this Session.
House, if they would but shorten their speeches, it They thought to have overpowered them (the Mi-
would afford an opportunity of hearing many able nisters) by their unparalleled Amendment.—Confi-
Gentlemen, who would be prevented by long-winded dent of their strength, they came down on t
he
Otos
speeches from addressing the House at all—(A laugh night, with a Motion, the like of which, he believed,
11 and Hear, hear.) With respect to the question before . was never heard of before !—(Hear, hear, from the
the House, he must remark, that, if Ministers -were Opposition)— He would challenge any Honourable
really.disposed to inquiry, they would have produced G entlemhanere to
never instancwas such 'e a Moantionoccasion. so unparalleled
eated
!
the Papers to the House on that very day. They Perhaps t (Reft
could, in that case, not have given an opportunity cries of hear, from the Opposition)—He hoped never
to any Gentleman to move for a Committee of In- I again to hear such a Motion, if the House wished to
quiry, an inquiry which, in his view, was absolutely consider itself as influenced by principles of justice.—
necessary—( Hear, hear, hear !) The whole Country, (Hear, hear.)—Nobody, he was sure, ever heard of a
from one end to the other, was loudly calling for it; Motion condemning first, that which it afterwards re-
and the Country, he must say, had a right to be in- commended inquiring into. This was eustigatque audit-
formed where the fault lay, whether the Expedition que !—beginning with punishment, and ending with
had been badly planned or badly executed—(Hear, trial !—(Hear,hear.)—For his own part he saw no good
hear, hear.) The inquiry, therefore, was indispensa- or useful object to be gained by the present Motion.
bly necessary ; and the sooner that House should de- Supposing it to be carried, Gentlemen would only
cide upon it, the sooner they would prove themselves gain 24 hours by the bargain. It was impossible for
to be the real representatives of the people who sent them to enter upon the Inquiry until Tuesday, because
them there—(Hear, hear.) As to what had been till then it would be inconvenient to produce the ma-
said respecting the language of the King's Speech, ' terials upon which the Inquiry could proceed. The
and the Address, that was of little signification, be- Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by observing, that
cause they all knew, that these were always drawn the mash being thus stripped off, the House would
up in a complimentary form. (A laugh.) But it perceive in its true point of view, the injustice and
would have a bad effact, that it should go to the unwise celerity with which Gentlemen wished to pro.
enemy, that on such a subject any difference of opi- cure a vote on this occasion.
nion existed ;or that when the necessity was known Mr. WINDHAM said, he could not agree in the
to exist for it, no inquiry was to take place. An ° view which she Right Hon. Gentleman, who spoke last
Honourable Member opposite, (Sir John Sebright), had taken of the object intended by the
_present Mo-
had on a formeonight talked of his not having con- tion. The Noble Lord, by this Motion, only wished
fidence in the existing Government ; but he would , the House to come to a resolution to entertain Inqui-
ask that Honourable Member, what confidence he I ry, in consequence of the prospects held out in his
could repose in him who had done him all the disser. ; Majesty's Speech, that the means of Inquiry would
vice in his power, in order to turn him outof that House ;be put in possession of Parliament. It was quite fit-
- (Loud laughter). Another Honourable Gentleman , tiag and becoming in the House to shew, that it did
had used language towards his Majesty's Ministers, not wait for invitation on the subject, but that
which was even still more severe. That Right Ho- it was perfectly ready to enter into Inquiry, as it
nourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney), forsooth, did not were by acclamation (Hear, hear.) The House,
mean to affront them, whilst he was, at the same in his humble apprehension, had sufficient informa:
time applying to them the most pointed invectives. (A. tion already before it, for the purpose of estimating
laugh.) 13* he did not think it necessary to say more the merits of his Majesty's Ministers' conduct. They