Star.
London, England, 1810-01-03 00:00:00

whether the Uri.-
gressions of France, -
ble to distinguish between
ligerents, who had


DOCUMENTS
RELATIVE TO THE DIFFERENCES BETVi,
BRITAIN AND AMERICA.
LETTER FROM HR. ERSKINE, ENVOY EXTRAORDINARY
AND MINISTER PLENIPOTENTIARY OF HIS BRITANNIC
MAJESTY, TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE.
Washington, July 31, Iso9.
SIR--I have the honour to inclose to you a copy of
an order, which was passed by his Majesty in Council.
on the 24th of May last.
In communicating this order, it is with the deepsst
regret that I have to inform you, that his Majesty
has not thought proper to confirm the late provisional
agreement which I had entered into with you on the
part of our respective governments.
Neither the present time, nor the occasion, will
afford me a favourable opportunity for explaining to
you tl-e grounds and reasons upon which I conceived
had conformed to his Majesty's wishes, and to the
spirit, at least, of my instructions upon that subject,
nor, indeed, would my vindication of my conduct,
(whatever I may have to offer) be of any importance
farther than as it might tend to shew that no inten-
tion existed on my part to practise any deception to-
wards the Government of the United States.
I have the satisfaction, however, to call your at-
tention to that part of the enclosed Order, which pro-
tects the commerce and shipping of the United States
from the injury and inconveniences which might have
arisen to American citizens from a reliance on the
provisional agreement before mentioned ; and I can-
not but cherish a hope, that no farther bad conse-
quences may result from an arrangement, which I
had fully believed would have met with his Majesty's
approbation, and should have led to a complete and
cordial understanding between the two countries.
With sentiments of the highest respect and consi-
deration, I have the honour to be, Sir, your most
obedient humble servant, D. M. ERWIN&
The Hon. Robert Smith, &c. &c. &c.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE TO MR. ERSKINE.
Department of State, August 9, 1809.
SIR—I have just received from Mr. Pinkney a let-
ter enclosing a printed paper, purporting to be a copy
of a dispatch to you from Mr. Canning, which states
among other things that " from the report of your
conversations with Mr. Madison, Mr. Gallatin, and
Mr. Smith, it appears—
" Ist, That the American Government is prepared in the
event of his Majesty's consenting to withdraw the Orders in
Council of January and November, 1807, to withdraw contem-
poraneously on its part, the interdiction of its harbours to ships
of war, and all non-intercourse, and non-importation acts, so
far as respects Great Britain, leaving them in force with respect
to France, and the Powers. which adopt or act under her De-

trees.
" 2d. That America is willing to renounce, during the pre-
sent war, the pretension of carrying on in time of war all trade
with the enemies' Colonies, from which she was excluded during

peace.
" Sd, Great Britain, for the purpose of securing the operation
of the embargo, and the bona fide intention of America to pre-
vent her citizens from trading with France, and the Powers
adopting and acting under the French decrees, is to be consider-
ed as being at liberty to capture all such American vessels, as
may be found attempting to trade with the ports of any of these
Powers,without which security for the observance of the embargo,
the raising it nominally with respect to Great Britain alone,would
in feet raise it with respect to all the world."
I have the honour to request you to favour me
with such explanations as your candour will at once
suggest, in relation to these imputed conversations.
I forbear to express to you, Sir, the surprise that is
felt at the extraordinary pretensions set forth in this
letter of instrnction, and especially at the expectation
that this Government would, as a preliminary, recog-
nize conditions, two of which are so manifestly irre-
concilable to the dignity and interest of the United
States. I, however, would remark, that had you
deemed it proper to have communicated in cxtenso this
letter, it would have been impossible for the President
to have perceived in its conditions, or in its spirit,
that conciliatory disposition which had been profess-
ed, and which it wa h
s oed had really existed.
I have thep honour to be, &c.
(Signed) B. SMITH.
Erskine, &c. &c. &c.
;61NE TO NIR. SMITH.
Washington, August 14, 1809.
mour to acknowledge the re-
the 9th instant, informing me
ived a letter from Mr. Pinkney,
paper, purporting to be a copy of
;ni Mr. Canning, which states,
, from the report of your conver-
Madison, Mr. Gallatin, and Mr.

American Government is prepared, in the
consenting to withdraw the Orders in
"vember, 1807, to withdraw content-
interdiction of its harbours to ships
rcourse and Non-importation Acts, so
Britain, leaving them in force with re-
Powers which adopt, or act under, her

willing to renounce during the pre-
carryinc on, in time of war, all trado
from which she was excluded during

for the rurpose of securing the opera-
the
bona fide intention of America to
trading with France and the Powers
the French decrees, is to be considered
• all such American vessels as may be
rich the ports of any of these Powers,
the observance of the Embargo, the :
respect to Great Britain alone, would
respect to all the world."
which you request from me upon
iven with candour, and I will
to lay before you an abstract !
is which I made to his Majesty's
. to the unofficial conversations
ith Mr. Madison, then Secretary
1, and myself, at the time and
ided to by his Majesty's Secretary
tg, in that part of his instructions
'nfarm me you have received a
tr. Pinkney.
my dispatches, addresced to his
tment of the 3d and 4th December
communications are detailed, I
tversations alluded to most Lave
previous to that period, and were

against die United States.
After some other
stated by me at that
world must be convinced
taken all the means '
Britain and France
neutral power, by represent
that she would be full:
hostilities with either
hesitated to do so
with both ; but that
deavour to maintain
powers in the work
lax their restrictions
which case, the United
that power against
aggessions.
That every opinion
the best interests .
a good understanding
Great Britain an the
thought that the
thereby result to
pledge of the sincerity
These observations,
were made to me
after the intelligence
of the rejection by
proposition made
dent, for the removal
Great Britain, ur
Council should be
States ; and his
pressed to me, in
his Majesty's Go•
deration of the ,
view to the adjustment
subject between
considered that
ment of the U:
beyond the proposii
above stated—beer
power of the
United States.
I understood,
tions of the Secretary
vey an opinion
course pursued by
his Majesty's Orders
In these sent
as I collected from
which I held wit'
With respect
letter to be cont
ning," I beg lea,
In the course
Gallatin (the
ed that the non.
to be passed by
removing two
with Great Britain,
applicable to 1'
clamation, whereby

excluded from
those of France
the non-intercom
the same footir
this measure
cession to Great
sequences folk
s;dei ed as remo'
ciliation.
He adverted
m.nt of anot
the two countries,
ed by the U:
carry on a trade
time of war, •
and to trust
to carry oa .
to a continuance
As it ma;
" trade with
conception,
be abandoned
tion in declarin
trade from
mother count
because the
dispute; whereas,
the colonies
never been caL
by his Majesty'
terms even ur
re-exported'
arranged in
tens Plenipoten\
indeed ratifi,
but was not
settled the
permitted.
Such was
versations which
Gallatin, and
represent to '
with any
about the repeal
that many
way of an
tween the
that a faint
ed ; since the
nation to resist

:
icn Secretary ef State) is represent,
rged various arguments tending to
ted States had exerted all their ef.
French Government to withdraw
ions upon neutral commerce, and
have been had to measures of more
against France than mere remon-

rights, which
quired ; but
from the
pledge themsel
Mr. Cartnini

I ever ho,
Goyernmci
the event
to cause
that the
respected
France and
her Decrees,
vested in ...
United States,
expect that -
upea the
so long in

The lion. David M. Erskine
FROM MR. ERSKI
I:
SIR—I have the honc
ceipt of your letter of the
ii' that you had just receive(
inclosing a printed paper
a dispatch to me from b
among other things, fron
sations with Mr. Madis
Smith, it appears—
" Ist, That the American
event of his Majesty's consent
Council of January and Noven
poraneously on its part, the int
V , of war, and aU Non-intercours
far as respects Great Britain,
:poet to France, and the Powe.
t Decrees.
" 2cl, That America is wi
3d
:. : .
F.. .
withps etaps
it
ioedr,nn:aob,ntcv e:Ldto.i
.t.iwar,nailfhigettyhht
attempting
.nnnihrGi
enemies'
,del
.crmita
it..
ar
tibezttsa pretension
riyensttggcoo,uoi o teBritain,
rinoaodpnmddti oreuftts:rttrihcrhafa.
etetraitt i
tie
'
raising it nominally with rt pl
- without which security for th
in fact raise it, with respect t
that subject shall be give
-i, The explanations whit
proceed, accordingly, tt
of the communications v
t Government, relative tt
'ii.' which I had held NA HI
of State, Mr. Gallatin,
R. ,
- upon the occasion allude
o,„. of State, Mr. Canning,
to me, of which you irf:
piloted letter from Mr.
Upon referring to TIT
..' •: Majesty's Government
last, in which these cot
conclude that the convc
been held some days pr
to the following effect
Mr. Madison (then,
ed by me to have urges
prove that the Ui.ited
forts to persuade the Fr
their unjust restriction
that recourse right hav
activity and decUon ill

SSIOES WOlida - . ,
and thereby • . . . I Ilevr"."--17114141 asY Oltrattles4ll4ll4l26 "Wil ug mi. ''.lo-7-miiiii, Aso Anterhaut vessels were
tweea the conduct of . - lie Gnes*lssils 0 savei !hoes, the °lnilliejaNWA
equally committed e .
4"' • "a tit ifky law ;oaellea•-oe had ever it the time by the deer
of dtat streaert lefuted ad- .
4*
Abe latt to his Majesty's Government-. mission into its pats; but under die is- egistree.
States. the
er observations, that with Portugal was
with Holland was permitted,
Mr. Matson is it haing, for the time, been presented to my con. don of our la as by which. the cam illtereourse
a time to have added, that as the Meriden in Mr. Canning's dispatch to me of the 2Sd on the event of that country
vinced that America had in vain .Jenuary, in which that idea is suggested, being occupied by ritiih troops in the name of the.
in her power to obtain from Great to have been assented to by Mr.itskrteidey. . m
a just attention to her rights as a It would be unavailing at the present mornent to Ptince Regent.
, and is itated also Considered as lerd
representations and remonstrances, enter upon aa examination of the “ pretensions set It is therefore principal' as resPeeet the second to ,
Fully justified in having recourse to forth in Mr. Canning's letter of instructions,'
roneous inferences might be draws from the expres.
" twhidn condition which relates to the colonial trade, that ese
her belligerent, and that she only yell are pleased to term) e extraordknary." •au
been mentioned •here inciden-
from the difficulty of contending I consider it, however, to Kith duty to declare :ions used in Mr.. Canning's instructions, Althour.
to
at she must be driven even to en. that, during my negociation you which led to the subject must have .
..0!
transient manner, as it is one to
in her rights against the two greatest the conclusion of the provisional agreement, I found;ore
Id, unless either of them should re- to reason to believe that any difficulties would occur which I had paid particular attention, and on which
tally, and only in a'
ettreys cepsidered at
ens upon neutral commerce : in in the accomplishment of the two former conditions, dop.
my (Onion had never varied,. I think that I can state
nited States would at once side with as far as it was in the power of the President of the with precisionbut what view I haie as
t the other which might continue its United States to accede to the first, and consistently ; it, and must have alluded to it, as
with the explanation which I have before given of the , 1. I never could hare girded ebtinfaiatice tO MI cud
nion which he entertained respecting second point. Onete contrary, I received. assurances o
i pinion that the United States would agree, or that ens
of his country, led him to wish that through you, that the President would comply (as t would he proper to make any arrangement west. ;at
tiding should take place between far as it was in his power) with the first condition, , ever respecting the coloniallsade, a condition of ti.f. co
id the United States, and that be and that there could be no doubt that the Congress ' revocation of the Orders in Council. The two sue- oe t
obvious advantages which would would think it incumbent upon them to assert the I•Tects were altogether unconnected, and lam confident di
D both countries, were a sufficient rights of the United States against such powers as , that such a proposition was never suggested either by ,et i
,cerity of his sentiments. should adopt or act under the decrees of France, as you, or by any member of this administration. Such -id
aims, Sir, I beg leave to remark, I soon as their actual conduct or determinations upon an arrangement could be effected only by treaty ; and tilt
tie by Mr. Madison, about a month ' that subject could be ascertained ; but that, in the , it is with a considerable degree of surprise that I see'
ence had been received in this country 1, mean time, the President had not the power, and i your Government now asking resistance to the French
)7 his Majesty's Government of the could not undertake to pledge himself in the formal , Decrees, by the abandonment of a branch -of etr et
e through Mr. Pinkney by the Presi- I manner required to that effect. I commerce, as the price of the revocation of the Gr. di
moval of the Embargo as respected I I received also assurances from you that no doubt 1 ders in Couacil. this seems to give a new character hi
upon condition that the Orders in I could be reasonably entertained that a satisfactory ar. to a measure which had heretofore been represented ;II
be withdrawn as respected the United rangement might be made in a treaty upon the sub. as an act of retaliation reluctantly adopted, and had ;
sentiments were, as I conceived, ex- I ject of, the second condition mentioned in Mr. Can- been defended solely on the ground of a supposed ae io
in order that I might convey them to fling's instructions according to my explanation of it quiescence on the another o the United States id the in. .f 6
overnment, so as to lead to a reconsi- in the foregoing part of this letter, but that it neces. turious decrees of nation. ,
proposition above-mentioned, with a , racily would form an article of a treaty in which the 9. In the event a
nd treaty embracing all the pole!:
ustment of the differences upon that ; various pretensions of the two countries should be in dispute, and particularly that of impressmeet., .1
1 the respective countries. But I never I settled. without which, I trust, no treaty will ever take pl -a...,
: Mr. Madison meant that the Govern- 1 The third condition, you certainly very distinctly it was my opinion,, and I may certainly have ez.
Inked States would pledge themselves ; informed me could not be recognized by the Presi- pressed it, that if the other subjects of difference were
oposition respecting the Embargo, as' dent ; but you added what had great weight in my arranged, that respectinthe colonial trade would be , 0
-because that was the extent of the I mind, that you did not see why any great impor- easily adjusted. I hdlg onsidered the principles re. . ;
President by the Constitution of the i tance should be attached to such a recognition ; cognized in a former correspondence between Lord
caese it would be impossible that a citizen of the Hawkesbury and Mr. King, on the subject of the co.
I, very distinctly, that the observa- United States could prefer a complaint to his Govern- lonia trade, eand'subsequently again adopted in the
cretary of State were intended to con- ment on account of the capture of his vessel while en• treaty negociated by Messrs. Monroe and Pinkney, as
las to what ought and would be the 1 gaged in a trade absolutely interdicted by the laws a general basis agreed on, under different Adm
Iby the United States, in the event of lof his country. trauons, by both Governments, from which neither 1
Orders in Council being withdrawn. 1 Under these circumstances, therefore, finding that could now recede, and susceptible only of modifies. I
itiments and opinions, you concurred, 1 I could not obtain the recognitions-specified in Mr. , den as to details. The instructions to our Minister;
from the tenor of several conversations 1 Canning's dispatcheof the Sled of January, (which in London on that subject had alio been published, I
with you at that period. I formed but one part of his instructions to me) in the and were known to your Government. I therefore s;
.ct to the second point, as stated in your ' formal manner required, I considered that it would , believed that the United Stems, in the event of a el
entained in a " Dispatch from Mr. Can- be in vain to lay before the Government of the treaty, would still be dispomeo wave for the pram, 3
leave to offer the following explanation: United States the dispatch in question, which I was in the manner, and on the terms contemplated by thee /
-se of a private interview I had with Mr. at liberty to have done is exenue, had I thought pro- instructions, their right to that branch, and to tint
Secretary of the Treasury), he intimat- per. ti ut as I had such strong grounds for believing branch only, of the colonial trade, known by de i
neintercourse law which was then likely that the object of his Majesty's Government could be name of direct trade, Chas is to say, the trade carried c
by the Congress, might be considered as attained,though in a different manner, and the spirit, directly from belligerent colonies to the belligerents in t
o very important grounds of difference at least, of my several letters of instructions be fully Europe, wl.ea that trade was not permanently, is
lritain, viz. the non-importation act, as complied with, I felt a thorough conviction upon my peace as in war, permitted by the laws of the cotmtry, i
her alone, and also the President's pro- mind that I should be acting in conformity with his ,to which those colonies belonged. The, right to
trade between such colonies and the IWO States I,
hereby the ships of Great Britain were Majesty's, wishes; and, accordingly, concluded the
in the Forts of the United States, while- late provisional arnsiaat on his Majesty's behalf generally, and to that in coloniel article:between -
ice were permitted to enter—but that by with the Government of*, Uhltitalltits• , - 'United States and other countries, never ran ot will, g
course law, both powers were placed on The disavowal by his Majesty iii painful pront to in my wtnign. --be-a.-",;.u...0r its exercise be sue i
pended by this Government. On the contrary, he i
King. He did net pretend to say that me that I bad formed an erroneobudramst of his
in order to secure, by an express treaty stipte )
had been taken from any motives of con. Majesty's views and the intention of my instructions • solely
Lotion, that trade against the danger of Interruption, i
teat Britain ; but as, in fact, those con- • and I have most sincerely to lament that an act of
flowed, he conceived they might be con- mine (though unintentionally) should produce any and thus by a mutual spirit of accommodation to avoid i
emoting the two great obstacles te a con- embarrassments in the relations between the two collisions, that the abandonment of the direct branch 1
countries. can never be assented to. i
red also to the probability of at adjust- It is a great consolation to me, however, to per- . Permit me therefore to request, that you will inform ,
me, whether you understood me on those two points;
aher important point in dispute between ceive that measures have been adopted by both Go-
intries, as he said he knew it was intend- vernments to prevent any losses and to obviate any as I certainly meant to be understood, namely, that
Inked States to abandon the attempt to inconveniencies which might have arisen to the sue. the relinquishment, during the present war, of what
trade with the colonies of belligerents in zens or subjects of either country from a reliance on is called the direct trade, was alone contemplated;
, which was not allowed in time of peace, the fulfilment of that provisional agreement • and I and that no arrangement eel that subject was sug.
t to the being permitted by the French/ cannot but cherish a hope, that a complete ;nil coo- gested as a conditien of the an
of the Order
in Council.
such trade in peace, so as to entitle them dial understanding between the two countries may
trance of it in time of war. • be effected. I have the honour to be, with the highest respell
,ay be very material to ascertain what I beg leave to add that it would have given me and consideration, Sir, your obedient servant,
:11 the colonies of belligerents" was, in my great happiness to have contributed to so desirable an (Signed) ALBERT IIALLATIS.
meant by Mr. Gallatin, as intended to object, and to offer you the assurances of the t Hon. D. M. Erskine, Ministnr Plenipotentiary, &c.
ed by the United States, I feel no hesita. respect and high consideration with which I remain, Hon
r•OUO2ft TO THE SECRETARY OF THE TREAS.7II
wring, that I supposed he alluded to the Sir, your most obedient humble servant, Washington, August 15,1809,
the colonies `of belligerents Area to their is. st. =SKINK. SIR—I have the honour to acknowledge the recei
ntry, or to the ports of other belligerents, The Hon. R. Smith, Om &e. &e. of your letter of the 13th instant, in Which you ha
right to such trade had been the point in THE SECRETARY ,OF 211 E TREASURY TO HR. ERSKINE. been pleased to say that although you "do not bell •
hereas, the right to carry on a trade from Washington, August 15.1809. that in the conversations we have had respecting e
sof belligerents to the United States had Sre—l do not believe, that hi the conversations we practicability of an adjustment of the differences •
called in question, and had been recognised ; have had respecting the practicability of an adjust. tween the United States and Great Britain, we ere
sty's Supreme Court of Admiralty; and the I ment of the differences between the United States and have misunderstood one another. Yet, as from lab
Canning's instructions, lately published by my Ge
upon which such colonial produce might be Great Britain, we ever have misunderstood one an.
I from the United States had been formally other. Yet as from Mr. Canning's instructions lately vernment, it would seem that sm opinions r
i a treaty signed in London by the Minis- published by your Government, it would seem that ascribed to several Members of thaneA •
which they did not entertain, it appears necessary...
otentiary of both countries, which was not some opinions are ascribed to several Members of this
ascertain whether, on any point, a mtsapp . -..•
fied by the President of the United States; Administration, which they did not entertain, it ap-
it objected to as to that article of it which pears necessary to ascertain whether on any point a I can have taken place."
terms upon which such trade .was, to be misapprehension can have taken place. ; In anstver to your inquiries, I haye great sa
I will forbear making any observations on what in ' tion in assuring you that there appears to have .
is the substance, Sir, of the unofficial con- 1 the instructions is called the third condition, since it Ino misunderstancting respecting . the substance •
which I had held with Mr. Madison, Mr. 1 is not asserted that that inadmissible prepositiort was meaning of the coaversauens Which passed be
and yourself, which I did not consider or ' suggested at Washington. us, as stated in Mr. Canning's instrtictions alluded
to his Majesty's Government as intended The points embraced in Mr. Canning's first propo- After the most careful perusal of your statement •
other view than to endeavour to bring sition formed the principal topic of our conversations 1 the purport of our conversations, I cannot di ~.
repeal of the Orders in Council, by showing 1 relative to a revocation of the Orders in Council.— I any materiid difference from the representation w .
'of the obstacles which had stood in the 1 Yet in the manner in which that proposition is ex- I I have made upon that subject to the Secrete:l
amicable adjustment of the differences be-' pressed, it goes further thanliad been suggested by I
• two countries were already removed, and' the Members of the Administration. It is sufficiently State (Mr. Robert Smith) in my letter to him et
14th inst. to which I will therefore beg leave to •
it prospect existed of settling what remain. I evident from the proceedings of Congress, both pre. you, as I have therein detailed the substance of
the United States had; exhibited a determi- 1 vious and subsequent to the unratified a tof 1 conversation according to my recollection of it ;',
I
resist the unjustaggressions upon her neutral , April last, that the United States inten ed to coati- is in every respect essentially the same as that , •
licit was all that Great Britain had ever re. 1 nue the restriction on the commercial intercourse with Yon seem to have entertained.
lin I certainly never received any assurances I France, whilst such of her decrees as violated our 1 During the conversation which we held respe
American Government, that they would 1 neutral rights continued in force, and to remove those I the practicability of an amicable a eljustment of •
emselves to adopt the conditions specified in I restrictions in relation to Great Britain, in the event i differences between the two countries, when the
ring's instructions tts preliminaries; nor did lof a revocation of the Orders in Council. But that • linquishinent by the United States during the p -
)1d out such an expectation to his Majesty's ' state of things so far as it related to France was to I war, of whet is called the colonial trade, was
lent, having always stated to them, that in i result from our own law known or anticipated by your . gested by you, I conceived that you meant (as
of his Majesty's thinking it just or expedient ; government when they authorised an arrangement; 1 have stated) " the trade carried directly from
his Orders in Council to be withdrawn, and it was not proposed by us that the continuance i ghat trade
colonies to the belligerents in Europe! i
President would take off the Embargo as of the non-intercourse with France should be made a i that trade was not permanently in peace as in
I England, leaving it in operation against i condition of that arrangement. Whilst on that sub- I permitted by the laws of the country to which''
I colonies belonged."
nd the Powers which adopted, or acted under • ject, I will add an observation, though not perhaps
rees, according to the aeithority which was immediately connected with the object of this letter. 1 I never supposed that you intended to convey
I him at that time by the Congress of the I think that the object of that proposition, so far as it I opinion that the Government of the United
hates, and that there was every reason to agreed with your previous understanding of the inters- would mike any arrangements respecting the .
'at a satisfactory arrangement might he made ' Lions of this government, has been substantially car- trade as a condition of the revocation of the .
1
i points of the colonial trade which had been ried into effect on our part. It is true that your go- ie Council,. the two subjects being altogether
0 dispute between the two countries. vernment might at the date of the instructions have uecteda not ban I ever reprilSnteel t 9 bis tils'
i