Star.
London, England, 1820-07-18 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. S. C. WHITBREAD presented a Petition from Charles
William Pitt, of Adam-street, Adelphi, complaining of de-
nial of Justice in the Court of Common Pleas,—Laid on the table.
Upon the Motion of Sir J. GRAHAM., Pellew's Divorce Bill
was read a second time and committed. The House resumed,
and the /3111 was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

Mr. C. CALVERT moved fur a Return of the aggregate
amount of Fees received in the Court in Southwark, for the
recovery of Small Debts, for a certain period of years. He ex-
pressed his intention to found a Bill on these papers in the course
of neat Session : and, from an account which he held in his
hand he could nat.:, that for the recovery of only one shilling,
the fees paid in Southwark were 165. 3d. a third greater than
anywhere else. He stated that the fees for the recovery of one
shilling. in London, were 10s. 6cl. In Fulwood's Rents, Ss. 6d.
in the Tower Hamlets, Ss. 9d. and in Vine-street, Westminster,
ss. 9d. He did not see why the charges in Southwark should
so much exceed the charges In the places he had just mentioned.
The Return was then ordered. .

Mr. F. BUXTON moved for a Return of the number of
Hindoo widows who had been consumed in the funeral piles of
their late husbands, for the last ten years.—Ordered.
Mr. HUME moved for Returns connected with the sum of
X 10,700, which had been committed, in 1794, to the hands of
Colonel M'Mahon, for the Earl of Moira, now Marquis of
Hastings; and also a sum of X 2,400, which had been given to
Mr. Phipps, Deputy Paymaster in the West Indies.—Ordered.
The Scotch . Fisheiles Bill was read a third time and passed.

Lord MOUNTCHA IMES moved the printing of certain
papers relating to the intercourse wits Ireland.—Ordered.
The SPEAKER informed the House, that he had received
from the Clerk of the Ilanaper Office in Ireland, a Petition
concerning the late Election in Dublin.

The Petition was then read, and it appeared to be the Petition
of Air. Grattan, complaining of the undue return of the Mem-
ber lately elected for the I.:try of Dublin.—lt was ordered to
be taken into consideration on Tuesday fortnight.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY presented a Petition from three
Gentlemen, who were the assignees of the person at whose suit
Richard Christie Burton had been arrested. These Gentlemen
were subjected to considerable loss through the liberation of
that person by an order of the House. Though he wished
Members of Parliament to be in all cases protected from arrest,
yet be thought there ought to be some law provided for the
relief of persons who sustained a positive loss from obedience to
an order of that House.

The Petition wu read, and after a few words from Mr.
Witarereaca and Mr. &eras, ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BATHURST presented a Petition from a number of
persona confined for debt in the Kings Bench Prison praying
for a continuance of the Insolvent Debtors' IXll.—Ordered to
be printed.
&r WILLIAM CURTIS presented a Pctiiion from certain
persons who, prior to the year Me, had acted as 'ride-sur-
veyors, Tide—waiters, and Waterniin, in the service of the Cus-
toms, and who had been dismissed from their situations in con-
sequence of an error of which they were unconscious at the time.
Laid on the table. •

The Irish Promissory Note Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed to-morrow.

CATHOLIC PETITIONS.

PLUNKET begged to state to the House. that he had
been entrusted with two Petitions, one from certain Parishes in
Dublin, the other generally. from the ii.habiumts of that City,
on behalf of the Roman Catholics of Ireland. The first Peti-
tion was numerously and most respectably signed, and deserved
every consideration. The other was also numerously signed,
and among the signatures were those of all of that persuasion in
that Metropolis, who were • distinguished by rank and station.
He might fairly state, that it contained the general sentiments
of the Roman Catholics of Dublin. Ile thought it right to ap-
prize the House that he w. uld not brirm forward any measure
relating to this question at present, and he would give his reasons
why he thought that such a proposition would be inexpedient.
Ile felt, that while another great and important question was
undispused of, he should have been wantiog in respect both to
the Parliament and the country, if he brought forward any pro-
position which would in the least einharrass their consideration
of that great question. Until that question, the settlement of
which would require the undivided exertioDs of every honest
man in England—(Hear' Fear)—was •decided, he did not think
he would have discharged his duty. if he had done anything to
distract the attention of Parliament and agitate the feelir.gs of
the Public---Ifear,hear). But at the same time lac felt that the .
interests entrusted to his ease were of momentous importair.

. •

and he hoped that nothing might occur which would render it I
rivets/Jul that they should be long kept back, and that he might
have an ask opportunity of bringing them before the House:
Ia pupodlrbee of that course; which he trusted would meet with
the approbation of the friends as well as enemies--herneaot po-
litical enenties, of the Ronsan Catholics, he would now abstain
srom farther-observation ; and heconcluded with expressing his
hope, that at he had now yielded to matters of so urgent a na-
ture, it would be admitted, when the quest:on of the Roman
Catholics of Ireland came before the Ilcuse, that they were
Persons whose character untitled them to a full and candid dis-
cussion of their claims—(Heor, hear).
BARRACKS IN TEM REGENT'S PARK.
On the motion of the CUANCTLLOa of the Incurraura, the
Report on the Bill for the erection of these Berracke was
brought up ; and on the question that it be received,
Mr. CALCRAFT took this opportueity of renewing hi op-
position to this Bill. Ile was surprised at the pertinacb y with
which this measure was Pushed 'forward by the Right lion.
Gentleman. Ile stated that the Barracks were unnecessary, as
the troops might hare the Barracks which they before occupied.
There was one thing of which he peculiarly cemplairted. The
ground upon which these Barracks were to be erected, belonged
to the Crown and is in the prissestion of the Crown. The con-
tractors, therefore, could ret have possibly commenced on their
own risk, and yet not until after they had been actually com-
menced was any intimation given of such an expenditure to the
House. Ft should also be remembered that these Barracks were
agreed for without any competition, save a circular letter which
was addressed to two or three other builders. Of this he was
certain, that everything which could be foregone, oeght to be
so, in the present state of the finances of the country. It had
been said, indeed, that if the troops were not in barracks there
might be greaedanger of a want of discipline among them. But
these very troops bad been hitherto in that very danger, as it
was called, and yet when were they accused t f a *ant of dis-
cipline? On the contrary, they had shewn at Waterloo that
they wanteel neither discipline nor bravery—(l! or, laar,,hear).
If the house would throw back this agreement upon the Right
Hen. Gentleman, it would give Lim such a caution, as-would
ht
' future render such contracts meth snore...atleanrageous to the
Public. lie concluded with moving, that the Report be received
this day six months.
Mr. THOMAS WILSON contended, that if the le.rgain
had been properly made, the country would be burthreed with
the annuity of £5400 for no more than twenty-nine years instead
of thirty-one years. The rate of that annuity was in fact seven
and three-quarters per cent. a rate which he could not but con-
sider exorbitant—(!hear, hear).
A Mutant from under the gallery said, that any person who
went to the It. gent's Park, might see a large pile of bricks and
other materials collected for those Barracks. He would ask,
were the works now to he stopped?
Mr. CA LCRA FT replied, that the lion. Member had struck
upon the very gist of the whole question. What he complained
of was, that men bad been set to a work, which was to cost the
Public £70,000, without the consent of the House of Commons
having been even asked upon the point—(Hear, hear).
The same Mtwara, under the gallery, asked, if the works
were to be now stopped, who was to pay for the materials?
Mr. CALCRAFf answered, that in his opinion the Cabinet
were to pay for thenn(Hear, hear, cud laughter).
Mr. LENNAUD supported the Amendment. He contended
it was a fallacy to say that these Barracks would colt theicoun.
try no more than £5400 a year for ZI years. They must be
kept in repair, and were liable to other contingencies which
could not but produce expense. Nay, the whole amount of the
annuity, would of itself cost the country £4OOO a year for ever.
The question was then put, and the gallery was cleared for a
division: For the original question - - 92
For the amendment - - 74
Majority in faviur of the Barracks —lB
CITY OP LONDON PPTITION. •

lie Sheriffs of London appeared at the Bar, and presented a
Petirion from the Lord Mayor, Alder men, and Commoners, of
the City of London, in Common Council a:sembled.—The She-
riffs having withdrawn,
Mr. Alderman WOOD rose and stated, that • this Petition ,
was agreed to by a large majority ; indeed, there were only ten
hands raised against it. He had no doubt that it would meet
with every consideration which the Petition of such a respect-
able Assembly deserved. He had only to add, that he agreed 1
to every word contained in that Petition.
The Petition was then read. It stated, that the Bill of Pains
and Penalties, now penditig in the Hocse of Lords against her
Majesty the Queen, was sounded upon proceedings which mi-
litated against the established rules of justice and equity, and
were calculated to weaken the stability of the Throne; that the
Bill charged offences to have been committed during a period of
six years, without a specification of time or place; that it ap-
peared to the Petitioners' that by persisting in such a course,
the principles of the Constitution would besviolated, and they
prayed, that should it be yet the pleasure of Parliament to pro-
ceed agaitot her Majesty, means might be adopted founded
upon known and established law; so that whether her Majesty
be found guilty or declared innocent, the jurisprudence of the
country, and its admirable Constitution, might be even exalted
by the result.—The Petition was then laid on the table, and
ordered to be printed.

IRISH DISTILLERY RILLS,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
second reading of the above Bills.
Lord Al OUNTCH ARLES expressed an earnest desire that
his Right Honourable Friend would not press the Bills connected
with the Irish Distilleries until after the Recess.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was,
not intended to do so. Every Gentleman would be afforded an
opportunity for the consideradon of the measure.
General HART said, that these Bills would only clog the
small Distilleries; r .1 be oQno use to the large ones.
The Bill providing for the Collection and Security of the Du-
ties on Spirits distilled in Ireland, in stills exceeding one hun-
dred gallons, was then read a second dine, and ordered to be
committed to-morrow.

The Small Still Bill, and the Excise Police Bill, were also read
a second time, and ordered to-be committed to-morrow.
Mr. C. H. HUTCIUNSON postponed, till t
Motion respecting the Irish Distillers.

~ his

GUADALOUPE CLAIVS-GENERAL DrrounmEAux.

Mr. IRVING brought up the Report of the Committee on
the Guadaloupe Claims. The Ibinourable Gentleman said he
was exceedingly anxious that the whole of the testimony on
which the proceeding of the Committee was founded should be
in the hands of every Gentleman. They had investigated the
case, not on legal evidence, but on such evidence as appeared to
them sufficient to skew its real merits. The transaction which
was referred to the Committee appeared to them to be one of
great hardship, and they had dectded it accordingly. He cer-
tainly did not expect, when this Report was presented, that any
bpposition would be given to it. He now,• howeVer, under.
stood that considerable resistance would be made to the claim,
and he was prepared to meet it.
Mr. BANKES could not agree that a large sum of money,
depending on a claim of upwards of twenty years' standing,
should be granted, at the end of the Session, ley a single vote of that
House. Why was it not inserted among the Estimates, and
submitted to a Committee of Supply? It could, in that case,
be considered in the Committee, on the bringing up of the Re-
port, and in different other stages.
Mr. IItVIN G felt the hardship of the case which was new
tender-the consideration of the Howie; and in proportion as he
felt its hardship, he was anxious to relieve the individual front
the painful situation in which he had been long placed.. It wi.s,
however, quite impossible that the case could be considered id
the present Session--(Henr, pier).—He Would, howevei, at the
earliest period the-House could admit, bring it forward, in the
next Session.

The Report was laid on the W)le, and ordered to be rtinted.
THE QUEEN.
Dr, LUSHINGTON said—" I rise, in pursuatice
of the notice,which I gave to the House on'Saturday,
to move an Address to his Majesty; that he•will.he•
graciously pleased to give directions that-there lie
laid before this-House Copies of all,OtEcial Vaperi
relative to the Service of Plate presented by his late
Majesty to her Majesty the Queen. It is a matter...of
regret to me, that any inter ion should lw..ve been'
suppo,ted to exist on my part to take the Tlptise by;
surprise, in.the Motion which I then.lll:o. the
contrary, it -Was my most anxious desire to' afford
;every opportunity for explanation 39 his Majesty's
Ministeis. I was aware that xny Learned .Priend
(the Solicitor-General of the Queen), had made
earlicat coulMuujc.ation upon tlii.t4sokiect 0.) thePoliiv

Lord, the Secretary of state for Forrien AfLite, and
in consequence
d of that communication, I gave lets
notice than I should otherwise have done; but I ut-
terly deny any wish or intention on my part to tal.e
the House by surprise ; and I am perfectly convinced
that if, either in fact or in intention, any such circere-
stance had taken place, it would have received the
heaviest displeasure of her Majesty the Queen. Ha-.
ing now, I trust, set myself right with the Ihvoe
peon I shall shortly detail the circer
stances thiscesupopno whichilit the Motion with which it me
intention to conclude is feueded. In the year
his late Majesty was graciously pleased to ooler, fts
the use of her Majesty the Queen, a Service of Plate.
The Service was-made after her Majesty's own taste.
and was presented by the King himself to her :Ma.
jesty, for her use and enjoyment. The order came
through the Lord Chamberlain, the Service was paid
for by the Lord Chamberlain, and, till the year i Elsie
her Majesty continued in the possession of it, es:thou:
question or controul. At that period- her :',/acsay
was residing in apartments in Kensington
and ueon her quitting that residence the Plate sees
delivered over by her to Mr. :Mash, of the Lo-d
Chamberlain's Othce, with an express onderstar:ii-se
that it was the property of her Majesty, and that
ever she returned to this country, it would be re-
claimed for her use. Upon her moire, to this couetne
her Majesty foundherself wisher t any of those articles
which could contribute to her comfort or enjoymeet,
She found herself hi a state of destitution, which, I
believe and hope, for the honour of the country, is
utterly unparalleled in the case of any Queen of
England: Under these circumstances, her Majesty,
being literally without any one article for her daily
use—(hear)—was pleased that .an stpplication should
be n•ade to Mr. Mash for the service of plate. Mr.
Ma h reelied,
.that he did not conceive himself es-
thorised to deliver the plate to her Majesty without
the authority of the Lord Chamberlain. Upon ae.
plicetion being made to the Lor.l Chamberlain, feat
Noble Lord replied to the Lady in Waning in the
Bel-
lowing tsrms : The Lord Chamberlain availed him.
self of the earliest occasion to bring the subject of
the note with which he was hole tired by La.: y :knee
Hamilton before the King; and it having hien ao
certained by official documents, that the j late in
question 'is Crown property, his Majesty seas not
s leased to issue any orders for removing it. owe do.
Jewel Office, Orfrere it is deposited.' Such being the
answer of tbeLord Chamherlain, I ;rust I shall net
be considered guilty of any indecorum, or of any
breach of that most valuable Order of this House,
which prohibits Members from, adverting in any
manner to the name of the Kingeif I treat the letter
of the Lord Chamberlain as having received the sanc-
tion and authority
.of hi; Majesty's Ministers. I
treat it as having- issued lon thes-!-•;ssiskeLord him-
self; and I do berreis'e and trust the Noble Lord mill
consent to that view of the questinn, and Lot be in,
duced, as some others heve boen, to shake reseons:.
hility from his own sheulders upon persons who
are wholly irresponsthle—(Cries of Hear, hear,henr).
If I were to confess my own honest sentiments, I am
persuaded the liberal and•gentlemanly dis; coition Of
the Noble Lord .would never have dictated such ad-
vice as.appears to have been given from the contents
of this letter, but.that it must have emanated from
some person anxious to raise. himself by the depres-
sion of her Majesty, a:id base enough to sun) to the
disgusting task of irritating the Royal mind to acts
which can only tend to the degradation of Crown,
and to. the injury of the he'st interests.of the coun-
try—(Hear, bear. hear). With re,pect.to the course
which has beets pursued upon the present occasion,
it appears to me that there are only teo
grounds or rather surmises, for they do not deserve
the name of grounds, upon which his Majesty's 2:-
vise's can have proceeded. The first is, that the pla'e
was bona.fidc the property of the Crown; that it we;
never for tr moment divested out of the Crown, una
was strictly a loan to her Majesty, though she en-
joyed the use and occupation of it. In the next place,
I shall require something more thati bare assertion,
to believe, that when the plate was delivered to Ea
Majesty, it was intended that she should only hate a
qua.ified use and enjoyment of it. Such a supposi-
tion is contrary to all past experience; for when plate
has been ordered by the Lord Chamberlain, paid for
by the Lord Chamberlain, and delivered to Minces
of foreign States, and Ambassadors, is there any in-
stance in which such a construction has been set ae,
or in which a demand of restitution has been made?
But if the present was supposed to be accompanied
with any condition, it is a tittle extra rdicary th.tt the
Crown should have thought proper to order that the
plate should be manufac.ured according to the taste
and fancy of her Majesty-.(Hear, hear, hear).—
In my humble opinion it is not very respectful to
the memory of his late Majesty, to suppose that he
should have annexed any coneitions to an act sf
bounty to her Majesty, to whom, upon all occaeiore,
he had evinced his most gracious favour and protec-
tion.. But admitting that there was an understand-
ing that if her Majesty went abroad she should for-
feit for a time • the use Of this plate, I will put it ta
the Hoese whether; in common decency and common
sense, is Ought:to be refused to her upon her return?
Is it consistent with either justice or feeling, te
because: her Majesty is accused the should be treated
as if, she were condemned ; and that before any in-
vestigation haseaken •plate,. she should be thrown
into a situation of degradation and disgrace? Is
just or manly to condemn her Majesty to a situation
in which she is:not .ottly prevented from enjoying
her high tights and privileeas as a Sovereign, bet
even trona possessing those ordinary comforts to
which an English Ladois entitled?—(Hear,
GOD have mercy upon the heart of that man who
was capahle of suggesting to his Majesty sesisi
Advice, who could solar. toiget what was dee !e
himself aiWhis Sovereigno.ais to. advise meast:ni
lending to involve the Crosynsio disgrace, and ,excie
indiguetkon flow siee: end. sei.-the- country to the
oilier... les reol. les of England feel this—if
;ten has been guilty of erityomisconduct, the tarts
Will- tome arrive evitert herr fate is to be decijed ; fat
.her be tried 'openly, hotieetly, and according to dot
• course of law ;shut Goo forbid that die s. (mid be
-Vexed with those mean and petty insults
Mete is one other- vii w. of this subject which I
berdly.
_dare to apticiPete in fily own mind, tad to
I'vehieli 1 shelf merely advert 'as 40 a case trench is
barely possible ; I mean; that when the plate mos Frio
stated to bee Majesty, alit Vas'kjenote amerte, nerd
5e41'414.). .i.041-4bie pf talcip ti„ticrty for hersesi-
e• •

•
tion on the OM of his 4lajesty's 'Ministers with re-,
aspect to her Majesty -having every requisite accom-
modation. I am sure the feeling and good sense of
the country will bear me out, when I say, that if
! her Majesty had conducted herself with that Welts%
I, which became her sex, and that dignity which-be-
! longed to her station, his Majesty's ,Ministers would
be most anxious to afford every consolation, which a
Queen, under such circumstances, can expect. But
when her Majesty condescends to listen to the meanest
adviser,s, when she suffers herself to become an in-
strument in the hands of the basest populace of the
touttry, who have presumed to insult the Palace of
-her Sovereign and her husband, as I had an oppor-
tunity of witnessing in my- own person, I have no
hesitation to declare, in defiance of every taunt that
the Hon., nd Learned Gentleman may throw out in
this House, that I should abandon the duty which lowe
to the dignity and honour of the Crown, were Ito ad•
vise the Sovereign to become the dupe of such artifices.
If her Majesty's present residence in town is not suit-
able, I am 'persuaded that an difficulty will be thrown
in the way of an arrangement by which her Majesty
may find herself, not iudeed in a Palace, bet in such
a residence as her presefit situation may lead her to
desire. It is most painful to me, as I am sure it must
be to the House, to embark in a discussion cf this
nature; and if the House suffers itself to he dragged
into such discussions whenever a discontented Mem-
ber of the Royal Family chooses to approach it, it
may happen, that in-disastrous times a pretty ample
harvest of the most perilous as well as the most de-
grading topics will be forded ups, us. If assertions
are madiron the one side, it may become the duty of
the Ministers of the Crown to make assertions on the
other, and I will leave the House to judge of the
painful situation in which we should be placed. by
such a course of proceeding, where the private trans-
actions of the Royal Family were involved. With
respect to the plate in question, it is so far from being
property of the description stated by the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman, that it was no more the intention.
of his law Majesty to give this plate to the Princess of
Wales, than to give her the Palace ,&t Kensington. So
far is it from being the property of her Majesty, that
some part of it is actually old plate of King William
HI. which was used at the Palace of Hampton Court.
The use of it was even restricted to Kensington
Palace, and this fact is very gravely and learnedly
entered in the books of the Lord Chamberlain, " A
list of the King's plate in loan to het' Royal High-
ness the Princess of Wales, at Kensington Palace."
This is tha official entry, and it is so specific, that if
at any time the Princess of Wales carried the plate
to any other residence, she exercised a larger discre-
tion than was warranted by the condition of the
loan. As to the observations which the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman has thought-proper to -make
upon the answer of the Lord Chamberlain- to the
application made on the part of her kl.jajlistam
so far from thinking that answer either .atrA or in.
decorous, that I know of no °flier answer which,
under *all the circumstances, Lord fl ircourt could
possibly have given. If-the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman had exercised the common diligence
which might base been expected from a man of
business, he might hive discovered that this was
not the first time that her Majesty had claimed the
plate at the Palace of Kensington as her property.--
When she was about to quit this country, in the year
1814, she had -actually ordered it to be packed up,
and sent to the Continent, and if the Lord Chamber-I
lain had not interfered, it would have gone out of
the country. If this- had happened, 1 am nut aware,
but primps the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
can inform the flem,e, by what proceeding it might
have been brought back. In the year 1814, a letter
was received, dated Geneva, September 28, from Sir
William Gell, her Majesty's Chamberlain, directing
that the necessary steps might he taken to send to heri
Majesty, without delay, the plate left at Kensingtool
Palace. The Lord Chamberlain replied, thin upoO
reference to the books of the Office, he did not feel
himself authorized to permit any part of the property
to be removed. His Majesty's Ministers have every
disposition to afford her Majesty Whatever may con-
tribute to her ease and comfort; and I am persuaded.
that no difficulty will arise with respect to an arranr-
meat of plate, when her Majesty has selected a snits;
able residence; but I must again deprecate every at-
tempt to lacerate the peace of the country, by sekan-
tonly renewing a discussion of these-painful topics.
I feel that I have already gone beyond the sphere of
my duty in detaining the House so long upon this subs
ter. I have been provoked to a breach of my duty,
I
have been provoked and dragged,
.l.sy the taunts of
the Hon. and Leareed Gentleman, into a detail of
circumstances which ought to be conducted by the
sole authority of the Crown, and never to be made
the subject of Parliamentary controul. If the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman bad experienced any diffi-
culty in communicating with his Majesty's Mini-
sters—if he found them inaccessible, he might have
had some pretence for 'bringing forward this motion
after the lapse of a fortnight. The letter of Lady
Anne Hamilton. which I cannot but consider as a most
extiaordinary production, is dated the Ist of July.—
As to the assertion that the plate is the property of
the Queen, it may as well be said that the King is
able to dispose of my estate, as that he was able to
give the property of the Crown to her Majesty. Un-
der these circumstances, I trust the House will cordi-
ally join with me in giving a negative to the motion.",
Lord A. HA MILTON said, that the acts of owner-
ship on the part of her Majesty, furnished a strong
presumption that her Majesty believed the plate to be
her property. He would ask the Noble Lord whe-
ther the peculiar situation of her Majesty was such
was calculated to give her any sanguine expectations
of justice from his Majesty's Ministers? The con-
duct which they bad putsued towards her, was one
continued course of insult *ad degradation. There
was another circumstance, respecting_ which he wish-
ed to say a rew words. By a Mornieg Paper, which
maintained the opinions of his Majesty's Govern-
ment, and which was understood to receive their
protection and support, it had been proclaimed, from
one end of the kingdom to the other, " that her Ma-
jesty stood is the way of the public good, and ought
to be got rid of, either as a martyr or a ern-hitter—
Ought not Government to redress the wrong thus in•
flicted on her Majesty ? If they had the power to do
so, and yet refrained, were they not highly culpa-
ble? He repeated, that it appeared from the Noble
Lord's own statement, that every step which had
been takeu by her Majesty respecting this plate, Was

• .
I cannot believe that this will be stated ifs, ar,;antent
on the other side, because I cannot suppose tt 'possi-
ble that his Majesty, who Isaibeen so long separated
from the Queen, could ever be persuaded to avail
himself of such a plea. I pray this House to consi-
der whether I am not justified in calling upon it to
render its aid and assistance to her Majesty under
these circumstances. If the decision of this subject
svere left to the judgment and feeling of the Noble
Lord, unbiassed by. any other adviser, such arc the
sentiments which I entertain of the Noble Lord's li-
berality, that lam confident he would be the first in
titis House to assist her on this occasion. I regret
tl.,at his Right Hoeourable colleague (Mr. Canning)
has left the House, because I might have appealed
to him, with the certainty of obtaining the powerful
aid and assistance of one, who has expressed his re-
gard and affection for her Majesty. I think the
House will not expect me to press this subject farther,
or to enter into its more minute details. I shall only
add, therefore, that at the present moment there is
not a single article in her Majesty's possession which
is not hired—(hear, hear!)—and which is not ut-
terly unadapted to her rank and station. "hope the
House will feel this, and give me credit for stating
the truth, without entering into further detail.—
Feeling, as I do, that the domestic concerns of any
'branch of the Royal Family can never be pried into
with a nice and scrutinizing eye, without infinite in-
jury and detriment to the best interests of the cotto-
ny, I trust the Noble Lord will spare me the neces-
sity of persevering in this course, not by coming for-
ward with reasons of State, but by admitting that the
circumstances of this case have been misapprehended,
and by giving an assurance that au order will be im-
mediately issued for the restitution of her Majesty's
property. Sure I am, that if this course be adopted,
by the Noble Lord, it will be congenial to the feelings
of a great majority of this House, and most satisfacp
'tory to the people of this country. I shall conclude
by moving-
-01 That an bumble Address be presented to his Majesty, pray-
ing that his Majesty may be graciously pleased to direct that
there be laid before this House, Copies of all Official Papers
relative to the Service of Plate presented to her Alajesty the
Queen, by his late Majesty, in the year 1308, and used by her
lisjesty till her departure from England, in the year 141-i."
Lord CASTLEREAGH said—" I regret very
much that I happened to be absent when the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman first made his motion, and
I regret still more the course-which the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman has thought proper to adopt
in making this motion. It is true, as the Hon. and
Learned Gentleman has stated, that a letter was re.
ceived from her Majesty's Solicitor-General, inti-
mating that it was intended to make a motion upon
this subject, but surely in a question so intimately
connected with the domestic concerns of the Royal
homily, it was the duty of the Hon. and Learned
GenCeman, if his object was really to obtain relief
for her Majesty, to have exhausted every means of
obtaining information, before he proceeded to tail
the attention of Parliament to the subject. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman has been good enough to do
justice to my matins, and I am unwilling to impute
any improper feeliag to him, or to suppose that he
has been actuated by other than honourable motives;
but surely it would net bow bear a-very extraordi-
nary act of courtesy in the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman, if he bad entered into some communica-
tion with his Majesty'nGovernment. I will ask whe-
ther it would not have been more consistent with a
fair Parliamentary course of proceeding, if the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman bad abstained from making
an actual motion, at a time when there was no in-
dividual Minister of the Crown present who could
give the slightest information on the subject? The
Hon. and Learned Gentleman is placed in a peculiar
situation, and it is perhaps my duty to suppose
that a person in his situation, with reference to her
Majesty, acts under instructions hear).—
Looking at the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's course
of proceeding, andus far as I am able to collect from
the substance of his observations, in which there is
somewhat of the same acrimony of remark -as in bis
former speech, though I am bOund to suppose that
he acts under what he conceives to be a sense of duty,
yet I cannot but add, that if his object were to in-
flame the public mind, and to reinforce that sort of
appeal to the worst passions of the country, and to
the populace who hurried through the streets even
to insult the Palace of the Sovereign, that object could
rat have been more directly pursued than by the
course which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has
thought proper to adopt. If the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had used the commonest diligence that
became him in the situation of her Majesty's adviser,
he would not have made a speech pregnant with the
grossest ignorance of every circumstance of the case;
he would have probed to the bottom the facts of the
case, before he threw a firebrand into the public mind
and the feelings of the country, and suffered himself to
be made the vehicle of such a-statement to the House,
at a time when he knew there was no Minister present
sslas could give him any information upon the subject.
The very fact of my being absent, and I charge my.
self of course with The-responsibility of not being in
the House to do my duty, ought to have restrained'
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman from asking
a single question upon the subject. Standing. in the
situation of a Minister of the Crown, and anxious as
I am to uphold the dignity and honour of the Crown
in this House, even the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman himself must feel that I have not ex-
pressed myself more strongly than the nature of the
circumstances demands. Now, with respect to the
circumstances under which the filings of House
Are again to he tortured,' and the peace of the coun-
try agitated, befog..., I come to this very novel discus-
sioitiaioa the internal affairs of the Royal Family, I
apes to observe, that although the Honourable and
!Learned Gentlen3an could not wait till I was present
,n the llotoe, this is a case of three weeks standing.
understand, upon inquiry, that so long ago as the
Jet of July, my Noble Friend at the head of the Go-
ernhrcpt an intimation from the Lord
Chamberlain that an inquiry had been made as to her
14.1j*ay having the use of the plate which was for-
merly in her occupation. This communication took
place at the same tine that an application was made
for a suitable resideace for her Majesty, sod it was
naturally understood that the plate was to be used
in the house fur which her Majesty aeplied.—.
•lhe ulna) t readiness existed on the part of MP Ms'
S Government to enable her Majesty to procure
t, suitable residence ; and I state this, because it will
".ira• that there-could be no groat spirit of persecu-

i

taken under the firm conviction that the late King he therefore deprecated an attempt on:any side
had given it'to her, and that it Was lie! Own. And timidate. In what had fallen from him, he trusted
here lie must say, that it would not be inconsistent that he had not said one word which might appear
v.ith the liberal- feelings of the Nobe Lord, of the to commit him on the merits of the case. He most
Adaiitastration generalittatrr their Royal Master, had sincerely hoped that her Majesty would come out of
some means heeraadopted of supplying her Majesty's the investigation as pure as her warmest friends could
wants in this respect, without compelling her to have wish her to appear. He most sincerely hoped, that
recqprse to the expedient of hiring the necessary ap- if she should appear to have bean persecuted, let-
pendages to her table. This fact, along with the nishreent and dagrace might Le heaped on-ber per.
rest, must go to the Public, and added to his firm secutors. But all lie asked, and all he demandisd, aas
(conviction, that there never was. and never could '• impartial justice; anti teat no means of intimidation
he brought before the notrae a subject so unfortunate should be resorted to, tither withal those walls Or
and so injurious to the interests of the Royal Family elsewhere; because any such pr; ceeding would have
and the country at large—(hear, hear). • a tendency to prevsnt the great Public Authorities
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) rose to make some re- from fulfilling the sacred duty eattusted to them
ply to the many misrepresentations and injurious ca- Lord A. HAMILTON explained, that his lima
luninies uttered on this occasion by the Learned Friend who spoke lest had inter!rretel his *olds
Doctor against his Majesty'S Ministers: If it be true, somewhat too largely. The Noble Lord (Castle.
(said he) that the Queen is obliged to hire the corn- reagh) had contended, that the King could make vo
monest articles of furniture, because these funds are present of plate: if so, he (Lard A. flamiltoa) ad-
withheld from her Majesty which might put the mitred that there was nn foundation for the motion ;
Queen of England above such degrading wants; if but he did not by any means allowthat the does- •
those funds are withheld by the Administration, why meats referred to by the Noble Lord had made out
not, he said, bring that subject under the notice of the point he had insisted upon : on the contrary; he
Parliament ? He should zrssume then, until contra- (Lord A. Hamilton) was of a totally different opiaton,
dieted, that those funds were provided ; he hoped, for he thought that the King could make a aresent
and this. House would expect that they should be li- Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that he had never entered
berally provided. If this be the case, he would ask the House with more painful feelings than to-night,
who had advised her 7.llajesty to lay aside all that because, if what the Hon. Gentleman (Dr. Luslang-
appearence of state which became her rank ?—Who top) had assert::) on Saturday were true, he should
had advised her Majesty to travel through this capi have felt bound to accede to a vote of censure upon
tal, from north to south, and from east to west, in a Ministers—(Hear, hear).—N,Av Ire, the country, and
vehicle not better than a hackney chariot, drawn by the Learned Gentleman himself, must be relieved
a pair of wretched horses, and a squalid iedividottl from that impression; and he lioped it would ape-
mounted on the box, and thus to masquerade, as it rate as a lesson to the Houie, and to the country,
were, round our capital? The Queen, he said, had how it placed confidence in attempts to delude and
a house and equipage, and what befitted her rank. mislead under a false feeling of compassion. He
He said she had, for her Majesty had the' funds ne- feat called upon to acknou ledge that some steps had
cessary to purchase all these—(Hear, hear, hear.)— been taken by the Queen, as if for the express pur-
The Learned Doctor would have proved himself an pose of creating agitation--(Loud cheering).—He
honester adviser of his Illustrious Client, had be re- believed that the motion would not h tee, been
commended the manifestation of decent splendour, brought foravard had the lion. Geralemaa been ac-
rather than by corning here to tart Government for queinted with the facts of which. I,e was now in,
subjecting a Queen of Englander) privations against formed ; as it stood .t present, it seemed introduced
which be must know it was in her Majesty's power to excite inflammation—Wear, heat).
to provide. It was manifest, he said, from the car- , Mr. HUSKISSON wished to offer a few remarks
Tespondence, that , the plate which was the subject on the point how far the Crown could part with its
of discussion, was lent, not given, by the late Icing property in the hands of the Lord (chamberlain, with-
to -the Princess of Wales—Wear, heall.—Then, it out the sanction of the responsible advisers of the
lent, he would ask this question—Was the Lord Crown. A warrant signed" by the'C'rown, and coun-
Chamberlain requesteJ .by Lady Anne Hamilton tersigned by the Lords of the Treasury, had always
again to re-lend this plate for the Queen's accorn- been considered necessary to convey a right to a third
modation ? No I The plate, not the property of party. From his own personal knowledge, in the of-
the Queen, was demanded from the Chamberlain, as ficial situation he held in 18)8, he could take upon
if the Queen was its legal owner; and no wonder himself to say that no such formzllities had been ob-
that, so demanded, Lady Anne- liamilton was an- served with regard to the plate in einestion. When
swered that the King had not ordered the plate the matter carne before the Treasery he had himself
to be removed from the 'Jewel Office—(Hear).— suggested that there was in the custody of the Lord
As a Member of that Honourable House he expected, Charnherbria sonic plate of the time of King William,
he said, that the Queen would have funds liberally which might be renioaalled for the purpose of 1 ro-
placed at her disposal, or issued to her Bankers; for valing the _then Princess of %reties with a t ers ice,
this he had not to learn, that when we abuse the which was to become her property no mere than
Queen we in some degree degrade the King—(llear). the furniture or linen with which she was provided
But here, he said, he paused, for he was not prepared in her apartments in Konsineton P.tlace—( Hear).—
to say, that under the calamitous situation in which It had always been tteazed as the King's plate, lent
the King and Queen were placed as to each other, to the Princess of Vales far her use. When 'the
that it would be for the honour oi' either that the Duke of Cambridge occupied apartinclas in .‘at.
King or his Ministers should be ostentatious in offer- James's Palace, furniture alai plate had been sapehea,
ing naked compliments; Compliments humiliating to through the Lord Chamberlain ; but se hen his Royal
the one, and not of real service to the other—(Hear). Highness quitted, in consequence of the fire, and
To explain, he would pay, he said, twenty thousand went into a private residence, the plate had been re-
pounds a-year to hire e house for the Queen's resi- turned to. the Lord Chamberlain—(Hear, hear).--
deuce, before he would compliment her with an old No servant of the King, without a warrant, could
Palace, fitter for rats to inhabit than the Queen to oc- es en have removed the plate at Windsor Castle, avid
copy !—(Hear, hear, and laughter). Although the an entry must have been made in the books, stating
Learned Doctor seemesi mainly ignorant of all that its destination, as the public property of the Clown.
he ought to have studied before he brought on this It was claim clear that the plate in question had never
motion, yeah. (Mr. Martin) hoped that he had better been intended as a personal gift from King ; for
than hearsay evidence to this important fact—that tire King had no power to bestow it, unless it were
the Treasury had issued ten thousand pounds for the paid for out of the privy purse.
• Queen's legal advisers--(llear, hear, and laughter). Dr. LUSHINGTON replied. He hoped the House
Mr. C. H. HUTCHINSON remarked, that the would have the candour and the kindness to indulge
question now before the House had not the remotest him with a few words,—(Hear, hear). He would trot
connexion with the great case on which Parliament occupy its time by answering the observations of the
would soon be called upon to decide. He regretted Noble Lord as to the exercise of his humble talents ;
that this point had been brought forward, because it but be woeld say, that his appointment as an adviser
was calculated in some respects to inflame and prejus of her Majesty had been unsolicited and unsought on
dice the"public mind, and to interfere with that im- his part : however incompetent he might be, be should
partiality which justice demanded. He gave credit at least discharge his duty with integrity and zeal— '
to the Noble Lord (A. Hamilton) for the candour of (Hear, hear).—he owed it to his own justification to
his concession, that, taking.for granted that di; state- mention two or three facts, On Friday last, for the
ments of' the Noble Secretary would be confirmed by first time, he bad becoine acquainted with an' thing
documents, a case had been- made mg which formed relating to this subject. and it was arranged between
a sufficient answer to the present motion. In his (Mr. the Solicitor-General of the Queen and himself that
Hutchinson's) view a more complete case had seldom the former should bring it forward on Saturday. It
been established—( Hear, hear). He had been present was not until late on that day, that he was apprized
on Saturday, when the Honourable Gentleman (Dr. by the Solicitor-General that he should be compel-
Lushington) made.his first statement upon this sub- led to leave London, and, consequently, that the
ject, and he must say that the reports in the public task must devolve uron him (Dr. Lushington).—
channels of informatics's were given with their usual He had-himself suggested the propriety of sending
fidelity. From them it would appear that the Ho- notice to the Noble Lord, and when he came dotvn
nourable Gentleman was most strong and pointed in to the. House on Saturday he had asked the Chan-
'the terms he had employed; and it was to be le- cellar of the Exchequer if the Noble Lord were ei-
merited, that, befoie he had thus indulged in expres- pected? the reply was, that it WAS not exactly known.
sions calculated to mislead and inflame the Public, He was waiting the arrival of the Nable Lord when
he had not endeaVoured to obtain some more accu- the Speaker called upon him, and then he had to
rate information than that with which he was sup- take upon himself to decide whether he would bring
plied. It did not now seem that the epithets of it forward or postpone it indefinitely, for be did
petty, mean, base, and despicable, were merited by not know at that time that the House would be
the conduct Ministers had pursued—(Hear, hear).— required to sit on Tuesday. 'A is it at all fit, that
In some respects, the conduct of the public Press de- out of respect for the Ministers, lie should forfeit
served severe reprobation ; and if Government pos- the duty he owed to his Illustrious Client ?—(//ear).
sessed the power of punishing, they ought to put that! It had been asserted, that motions of this kind were
power into exercise. Passages had appeared, that made for the purpose of inflaming the passions of the
went almost to encourage the destruction of wit.' People, apd exciting prejudice and agitation out of
oesses against her Majesty ; in fact, if a foreigner were , doors ; but, had he been aware of any other mode in
of late to have read our public wints, he might al- ' which the Queen could have obtained tile use of the
most have concluded that no law existed to restrain; articles of plate she required, lie should not haVe he.
them. The witnesses had been called eiyiints perdue:, I sitated in adopting it. As far as his opinion went,
and when it was said that .they would return from he was far indeed from- wishing the Queen to court
the retreat to which they had been sent, it was added,' public favoir, cxceit whea a deep and ripe necessity
nous uerronsi as a doubt whether they would ever compelled; but in the intercourse of her Maje•stv
dare to shew themselves again in this country. He with Ministers, she had' not diet with that liberal
was anxious for the correction of all public abuses— ; treatment to Which, as' a Sovereign, she was entitled.
he was a friend to economy, and an enemy to Alien He appealed to the justice of the House and of the
Bills; but he was not to be deterred by any attempts country, if, when her Majesty hid required a yad tto
at intimidation; and, mute qui coute, he was resolved convey her to England, the answer of the First Lord
to discharge his duty on this, and all other questions,' of the Admiralty, that the King was out of town, :Ind
with fearlessness. He lamented sincerely that the that no order could therefore be made, was decorous
subject itself had been forced on .their consideration. .or becoming ? It was the duty of the Noble Lord
If it had not been grossly mismanaged, it would have • to have waited upon his Majesty without &Ain ih
been kept out of the public 'view. That mismanage- I order to take bis• Royal pleasure upon the puini,..4.
meat had excited the present flame and spirit in the Surely this was no great encouragement for 14*
public mind. Those considerations now, however, Queen to rely upon the liberality of Ministers as to
came too late. Parliament 'were now called upon to her private comfort and conveniences--(illear, tee I.
rtue.oul.ce an impartial judgment on the case, and; The Noble Lord had said, that the motion was foun,ed