Star.
London, England, 1820-10-11 00:00:00

TRIAL QE THE QUEEN.

HOUSE OF LOIII/S, OCTOBER 10.
DEFENCE—SEVENTH DAt
(In continuationfront the first Edition rf yesterday's STAR.)
Cross-eraniination if Lieutenant FLYNN by the SOLICIT(' R-GEN
Was not Pascuelli three months ago on board the Lisle?
—Yes. Ido not know what became of hint afterwards. Pas-
cuelli, the sailor, made thirmemorandurn three months ago by my
order. Jdo not recollect whether I said yesterday it was my own
writing I alluded to ; but I had not time for reflection. I now
say it was not my writing, but that of Pascuelli.
Will you swear it is not -the hand-writing of Schiavini ?—lt
is Schiavini's hand-writing.
Re-at:mined br Mr. DENMAN.
I was as familiar with theltalian langua,,°e when I went the
first voyage with her Royal Highness as I ant now. I do
not know to a certainty of what country Pascuelli is, but I
have every reason to believe he is from some part of Italy.--
Pascuelli made a copy from my log-book. I ant a Lieutenant
of the Navy on half-pay. No question was put to me about the
case of her Royal Highness before I was applied to on this oc-
casion. If I had notice I could have brought the log.bOok. Schia-
viui wrote the paper in my hand, a few days ago, by dictation
from a paper I bad in my hand, which had been written by
Pascuelli.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the memorandum-
book of the witness should be produced, for Connie! on both
aides m refer to, and that copies should be made of it.
The Earl of k INGSTON.—What was the size of the door
into the Princess's cabin ?—About three feet wide and six high.
Could not the bathing-tub of the Princess be got into the
cabin ?—Nu, only one-half of it could be gut into the cabin.
Why could one-half only be got into the cabin?—Because
there was not sufficient length from the sofa to the door of the
cabin.

Whit was the Axe of the Princess's bathing-tub 7—About six
feet long.
_lnd do you mean to say that a tub of six feet is length could
not be got into a room ten feet long?-loo, it could not, on ac-
count of the sofa.
Wu the sofa fixed or moveable ?—lt was not fixed, but it
never was removed.
Could it not be removed?—Yes, it could be removed, but it
never was.

What was the distance from the sofa to she door?—Two and
a half feet at the utmost.
And when the door was open the bathing-tub could net be
put into the room by the side of the sofa ?—Certainly not.
Did you not say, that the lights under the tent, were put out
at night, under the apprehension of discovering you to some
Pirates?—Yes, after we left Jaffa. ' -
IVhetle was the binnacle?—By.the mizen-mast, just before
the helmsman.
Did you keep the afterpart of the binnacle open ?—Yes.
There was sufficient open, to enable the helmsman to look at
the compass.
On what side was the door of the tent ?—The tent had no door.
Where was the entrance?—By putting the hand on the lower
part of the canvass, and raising it up.
When the Princess called you; how 'did you enter the tent ?
I lifted it up.
When you lifted up the canvass, could you see the whole inte-
rior of the tent?—Yes.
And you will swear you saw no person there but the Prin-
cess ?—I
Where you slept, could you hear a conversation in the tent ?
I could.
Why, then, could you not hear when the Princess called you?
—Sometimes, when the wind blew hard, the materials of the
ship made so much noise that I could not hear distinctly.
Was this ever the case when you slept in the cabin ?—I did
not sleep in the cabin from Jaffa.
Where did you sleep?—Over the helmsman.
Could you hear or distinguish if two persons were speaking
the tent never did distinguish two persons talking.
Would you have known if two persons were talking in the
tent ?—I should have heard their voices.
And known that there were two persons ?—Yes.
Were you often called to receive orders from the Princess?—
Sometimes.
Was there a light in the dining-room?—There was.
Did you ever see any person sleeping in the dining-room?—
There might be some person sleeping there, but I never saw It
at night.
Did you ever see Bergami there in the morning ?—Yes, I have.
Did you ever see him there in the night ?—Never.
When you were called by the Princess, did you not see whe-

Rome; thence to Naples, and afterwards to Corsica, to make
inquiries respecting Murat. After being there four days, I re-
turned to Naples, to state the success of my mission. I after-
wards went to Messina, and was recommended by Captain
Briggs to het Royal Highness, who inquired what I was going
to do. Not beini, under any particular engagement, she wialied
me to aeccmpany her on the •oyage, which 1 did.
You mentioned that the Princess gave you the commend of
the polacca?—She did.

lid you before proceeding on the voyage, ascertain the births
of every individual on board?—Certainly.
Did you not consider the ship and crew under the controul of
her Majesty ?—I did.
• Did you not conceive her Royal Highness had a right to con-
ceive herself mistress of the polseca ?—Assuredly.
The crew was hired and paid I her?—lt was.
Must the crew not have conceived that the Princes+ was the
only person to look up to on board?—Yes, therdid look up to
her, but all orders were given through me. '
1)o you not conceive, that in any fine of conduct which the
Princess might choose to pursue, she must conc • Ire herself fete,
as if she was in a house or palace of her own ?—Yes.
Do you not think, that as there was a teat on deCk, the ere*,
would take c:tte' not to incommode her Majesty by passing too
near the tent ? Unless any alteration of the-ship. required it,
they wintiaasot do it.
Do you not conceive that every possible pains would be taken
by all persons on board, not to give her Royal- I lighnefi the least
posiible interruption ?...Certainly.
The Princess paid the Captain for the vessel, did she not ?-Yes.
Did you receive any remuneration, and what, for the time
you were on board the polacca?—On my departure from Sicily
no arrangement for me was made, nor did I expect it. On ar-
riving at Tunis, her Royal Highness gave me some money, and
fixed my remuneration; I do not know the sum, but I believe
it was £201) a-year.
In the voyage out you have said, very decidedly, where Ber-
gami slept—you have sworn that he slept in the dining-room?
—Tea, because I saw him there.
Why can you net as positively state where his sleeping-room
was on the voyage homeward as on the voyage out ?—Her Royal
Highness having slept on deck, I had not so often occasion to
go below.

But when you• were able so positively to state where Bergami
slept on the voyage out, how comes it that you cannot form any
belief as to his voyage home ?—I never went into the apart-
ments to see who slept or did not sleep in them.
You are the person, however,' who distributed the births on
the voyage out. Did you not do the same on the voyage home?
Mr. DENMAN objected to the 4uesion. It assumed, that the
witness had not made the same distribution on the voyage home.
The witness had never stated any such thing.
Lord DONOUGH VORE.—IIe has said as much, for if he
had made that dstinction, he could not have sworn diet he did
nut know where Bergami slept—but I will change the spies-
tion—Did you make the same distribution of the births on the
voyage home, as on the voyage out ?—There was no occasion.
The same distinction continued, but I do not of myself know,
whether Bergami slept in his room or not.
You have stated over and over again, that you did not know
where Bergami slept on the voyage homeward ; how then can
you form the negative Idea where he did not sleep ? How can
you say that he did not sleep under the tent?
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he could not permit this question to be
put. It was assuming that the witness had said decisively that
he knew where Bergami did not bleep. Now all the witness
had said was, that if compelled to state his belief, he must say,',
that he did, not believe he slept under the tent.
The Duke of CLARENCE rose to order. His Royal High-
ness begged to state, that he conceived the conduct of the
Learned Counsel was not what it ought to be towards the
House—not suitable to the dignity of their Lordship& The
Learned Gentleman had mid, that he would not " permit the
question to be put." Such language was not that which should
be used towards the House. It was neither respectful to the dig-
nity of their Lordships, nor consistent with the duty of the Coun-
sel. " Gov forbid (continued his Royal Highness) that we Lords,
who are not professional and Learned Lords, should not be
stopt by the Counsel for or against the Bill; or that the Counsel
should not do what they conceived to be their duty. I conceive,
at the same time, that it is the duty of Counsel to treat your
Lordships with .proper respect, and that they should submit
whether any question should be put or not."
The LORD CHANCELLOR could not imagine that the
Learned Gentleman had bad any intention of treating their
Lordships with disrespect, but certainly the language which had
been used, was not the exact stile of language, that should be
observed towards their Lordships.
Lord DONOUGHMORE acquitted the Learned Gentle-
man of any intentional disrespect. The language he had used
had doubtless arisen from that becoming earnestness which be
bad evinced through the whole course of the proceedings. His
Lordship agreed, that if the question had been such as the
Learned Counsel represented, the objection to it woukibe well
founded. The Clerk would be pleased to read the question.
Mr. Gurney read the question last put, when it appeared that
in the way he had taken it down it was as Mr. Baoutauale had
represented. _ _

Lord DONOUGHMORE said, that that was not the ques-
tion he had intended to put. The question he wished to ask
was this—Having sworn on your direct examination, that you
did not know where Bergami slept on the voyage homewards,
account how you are enabled to form at once a belief as to the
negative, namely,where he did not sleep, that is, under the tent?
Mr. Bacinauist begged to apologize to their Lordships for the
words which hadesaapedhiru. He was sure their Lordships would
allow that they were a deviation from his ordinary phraseology.
In the course of from fifty to sixty times, that he had had occa-
sion to interrupt their Lordships in the tutnination of wit-
nesses, it had invariably been his study to observe all due re-
spect towards their Lordships. The question now put was
tote ado, different from the one proposed before by the Noble
Lord; Lid be had no longer any objection to offer.
The question as last proposed was now put to the witness.
Ans.—From this circumstance, that I never did see hinsthens.
You have said in your direct examination, that in the day

cafe bad not been taken, by placing holes at the top of the bin.
nacle, so as to prevent any ill consequences from the piratical
vessels which were infesting the seas ?—I had not the fitting up
of the ship, except in that part where her Royal Highness was.
The sommand was not given to me till we sailed for Augusta.
As there were two Captains on board, which was the regular
constituted authority over the stores and victualling, and was
rtsponsile to the owners ?--I had nothing to do with the
stores and victualing. The Captain was, I believe, part owner.
The log-book was kept by the mate or pilot. Ido not exactly
know whether it was kept by that person or not. I cannot
exactly tell the dimensions of the tent. The after-part is close
to the binnacle. From the main-mast to the mizen-mast was
twenty-two or'twenty-three feet in length. The breadth of the
tent was about a foot less than the breadth of the ship. It-was
about nineteen feet.
Was the whole space made by the tent sufficiently illuminated
by the binnacle to enable a persot:, upon lifting up a part of it, to
see every object in it ?—Yes. . .
In descending from the tent by the companion-ladder, where
you said before there was an open communication, what tinfe
wossid be ocatpied,r—Soeaking as a seaman, I could do it my-
self in a second.
• Tire ere* of the polacea consisted of-22; three of them were
In the habit of going to the helm—they relieved each other every
four hours.

Lord GROSVENOR.—You say you did not know where
Bergami slept on the return from Jaffa; where did Hieronbniss
sleep ?-11e slept in the foremost cabin on the larboard side.
Wm. Austin, Dr. llogand, and others, slept on the opposite side.
Account for not knowing where Bergami slept, when you
know where the rest of the suite whom you have mentioned
slept ?—Those persons who skpt outside the dining-room I had
an opportunity of seeing and bidding good night to.
Ilad you any other reasons for not knowing ?—No other.
To Lord FALMOUTH.—When I said the memorandum
was copied by Schiavini, I meant by my dictation. It was
copied from one I have. The document from which I took
it is not now in existence. I dictated what he wrote. The
original I brought frdin Sicily. I destroyed it, for it was writ-
ten in bad Italian, and I did not wish to bring it. It was wholly
Italian, and very bad Italian. It is a true copy of that I brought
from Sicily. The original was in English; the first copy in Italian.
To Lord LAUDERDALE-4 found Schiavini in the Queen's
house. Ido not live there, and have not been frequently there.
I have not been there these five or six days. I never conversed
with Schiavini on the subject of the memorandum before.
The Marquis of BUCK INGLIA 111.—Did you, every time
you looked into the tent, see the Princess ?—Yes.
Witness further stated, he did not know whether tile Prin-
cess used the bathing-tub or not, but believed she did, as he
knew water was sometimes ordered.
The Duke of CLARENCE then examined the witness.—l
was seven or eight years a Midshipman, and I have been a
Lieutenant eleven years. I conceive myself entitled to receive
for 19 years.
The witness was then examined by his Royal Highness as to
the binnacle, which was not like the ordinary, binnacles in his
Majesty's service; but that he did not know it until he was on
board, and could not get it altered. Witness. first heard of the
pirates at Milo, but did not give credit to it until they reached
Constantinople. The tent was made of cotton. It was a common
ship tent. and fastened on deck to a ledge that went round the
hatchway. The opening into the -tent, was by two pieces of
canvass falling down. The hatchway was within the tent,
Wit-
ness did not say he saw the light handed out of the tent. It' was
not in his evidence. The tent was about ten feet long. Two
sofas were spliced together in the tent. There was a space of
five or six feet from the sofa to the larboard side of tlw ship.
When both the doors of the tent were open the bathing-tub
could not be carried into the cabin, there was not room for it.
• Lord KINGSTON, amidst cries of Withdraw, withdraw, pro,
eeeded to ask a few questions of the witness, but nothing of im-
portance vas elicited.
WILLUX CARRINGTON, Me Oda of Sir WiLLIAM GELL, was caled
in, and examined by Lard Mumma.

I served in the capacity of a Midshipman with Sir John Beres:
ford. I had been in other ships before. I had been sometimes In
the merchant service and sometimes on land. I served as Quer.:
tertnaster on board the Majestic before I was in the Poictiers,
I also served in the Namur, and I was a few months on board i
brig. The first -pay I received in his Majesty's service was wheit
on board the Namur. I did not enter voluntarily, I was pressed.
I did not serve as Midshipman, except on board the Poictiers:
In the other 'ships I served as Quarter-master and Gunner', •
Mate.
By Lord HA MPDEN—Wirat was your reason for quitting
the service ?—I bad no money ; nor had I clothes to appear like
a Gentleman, on the Quarter-deck, and therefore obtained my
discharge.
By Lord EXMOUTH—Where were you born?—At St.
Oewith, near Colchester, Essex. •
How did you get your living before you went into the King 'S
service .—Sometimes by fishing—sometimes by piloting I was
in the merchant service when a boy : I was in a boat when I
was pressed.
The rest of the witness's re-examination produced nothing but
what was extremely Eivourableas to the goodness of his charmer,
His Royal Highness the Duke of CLAM: NCI, who put several
questions to the witness as to parts of his former evidence which
seemed inconsistent, declared, on sitting down, that the answerk
were perfectly satisfactory.
By permission 0 their Lordships, re-examined by Mt.
BRCUGHAU.
. Were you ever dismissed from any of his Majesty's ships in
which you served for misconduct ?—No, never.
Were you ever charged with any misconduct in those ships?
,—Never.
I need not, of course, ask you if you :sere ever punished for
any misconduct t—Never.
Had You ever any quarrel on board of any of the ships ?
Never.
In point of fact, was there anything in your conduct, while
in his Majesty's service, which you could wish to conceal?—
There war not;

•

•

t.,.,.~. ..._ ,

evasion, was recalled, and examined by Dr. Lusantaxon, through
the Lord Chancellor. lb
Did you ever, on the journey of her Majesty to Naples, make
any beds ?—I assisted in making them.
Did you ever make William Austin's bed ?—I misted to make
a bed for William Austin.
Was that bed made for William Austin in her Royal High-
ness's bed-room, or in another apartment?—Sometimes, when
there was room, it was made in her Royal Highness's bedroom,
and, when not, in other places.

The next witneu tatted wet imam Roam: Hownass, Esq.
Erantined by Mr. TYXDALL.
lam a Lieutenant iu the Navy. I am a Lieutenant since
the early part of the year 1809, and am settled at Rouen,
in France, with my family. I joined the party of her Royal
Highness in April, 1815. She was then at Genoa. She re-
mained there six weeks after I had joined her. I recollect
a circumstance which took place at Genoa one night.—
It was supposed that the house had been broken into by
some persons, and a general alarm was made in the night-
time. I got up in consequence of it. I went into the great hall.
The first person I saw was Bergami. He came to my room,
and gave me the alarm. He had with him a candle and a
sword. My room door opened into the hall. I went into the
ball. I found the Princess and many of the servants there.
During the time we were at Genoa, I never breakfasted with
her Royal Highness. I have seen her at breakfast. Bergami
was not breakfasting with her.
Did you ever know him to breakfast with her?—Never.
You were in the habit of dining with her Royal Highness?—
Yes, every day.
D d Bergami ever dine with her while she was at Genoa?—
Never.
Where did Bergami Best begin to dine with her?—l do not
recollect the name of the place, but it was in the course of our
journey t St. Gothard, and in the month of August, 1815.
Did be begin regularly to dine with her Royal Highness at that
time ?—No. It was at the Villa d'Este he began regularly to dine
with her Royal Highness. After we quitted Genoa we went to
Milan ; there her Royal Highness resided at a place called Olivera.
There was a staircase into which her Royal Highness's room
opened, but it was not a secret staircase. It led to my apart-
ment where I slept, and to the chambers of all the lower servants.
I do not recollect that the staitcase was used by the lower ser-
vants in going to their apartments, but I used to pass through it
in going to my apartment. After we left Milan we went toVeniee.
Her Royal Highness took up her residence at Villa d'Este, in
September. 1 knew where her Royal Highness slept at Villa
d'Este. After our long voyage, I recollect being at Tunis. I
accompanied her Royal Highness during the whole voyage.
Where did Bergami sleep at Tunis?—l recollect his pointing
ma out his room, and I saw him in his roomusing it as his room.
Was it near her Royal Highness's morn ?—No.
Describe the different situations of Bergami's and of her
Royal Ilighress's rooms ?—Bergami's room was the only room
up a flight of stairs. I never saw anybody occupy a room there
but Bergami. There were several royals between the flight of stairs
and her Royal highness's room. I mean there were three or four
rooms to pass.
Was Bergami's room on the sante story with that of her
Royal Ilighness?—No ; her Royal Highness's was on the same
Boor with all the Household. I remember going from Tunis to
Utica. Iltr Royal Highness went to the Palace of the younger
Prince, called Label'. Witness was on board the polacca
during the voyage. There was a most complete separation be-
tween the part of the polacca used by her Royal Highness
and suite, and that used by the Captain and crew. The Cap-
tain had no duty to perform in that part of the ship which
was occupied by her Royal Highness the Princess of Wales,
I nevt r saw the Captain in that part of the vessel. I recollect our
landing at Ephesus. Her Royal Highness slept on the Plains of
Ephesus. She slept under a shed : the shed was open, and the
suite slept around her, myself among them. We dined on
that day in the church-yard, under the portico of an old mosque.
1 am convinced we all dined together.
In what way did her Royal Highness travel from St. Jean
d'Acre to Jerusalem?-0n an ass.
Is that the usual way of travelling in that part of the world?
—They travel on asses, or mules, or in palanquins.
How did you yourself travel?-0n a horse.
Was the course of your travel to proceed by day, and to rest
—to lie by at night ?—lt was.
In what manner did her Royal Highness rest during the day?
—Under a tent.
• observe whether her Royal Highness, before she lay
by for the day, appeared to be fatigued or not?—Excessively
fatigued.
Was that the case during the whole of the journey from St.
Jean d'Ac:c to Jerusalem e— es•
Did you make any particular observation as to the nature of
her Royal Highness's fatigue ?—She fell from her ass more than

Once.
tee you recollect on the voyage to St. Jean d'Acre any tent
oa the deck of the vessel :.---There was. •
On the outward voyage did the tent continue on the deck, or
was it only put up occasimial I y ?—Occasionally, when the sun or
wind incommoded her Royal highness.
I beliive you re-embarked at Jaffa on your return?--We did. ,
'Was the weather at that time hot or otherwise ?—l'articularly
hot. It was July.
Had you any cattle of any kind on board the vessel?—We
bad ; horses and asses.
Were there more on hoard on your return than on your way
out ?—There were none going out.
In what part of the vessel were the animals kept?-In the hold.
Did they make any noise in the night or the day 2—The gene-
ral noise which horses and such animals make.
Was any unpleasant smell occasioned by these animals being
put in the hold?—Yes, thete was certainly.
Where did her Royal Highness sleep on the voyage from Jaffa
homewards?—Under the tent on deck.
By whose direction was that tent put up?—By her Royal
Highness's direction.
Did it remain permanently on deck from the time of your
quitting Jaffa to the end of the voyage?—lt did.
Do you recollect at any time a complaint having been made
by her Royal Highness as to the rate of the vessel's sailing ?
Yes, I do.
What was that complaint ?—lt was on the return voyage.
We were off the Isle of Rhodes. The passage was excessively
tedious, and her Royal Highness was anxious to get ashore.
She attributed the slowness of our progress to the badness of
the vessel as a sailer. I stated to her Royal Highness—
The Arroartre-Gantaaa here objected to any statement of
conversation, but waved any interference, and the witness pro-
ceeded.
I stated to her Royal Highness, that she could not expect a
vessel to sail so well with a tent on the deck. Her Royal High-
ness's reply was, a as to the tent, I du not care for it at all; I
would as soon be without it."
What was the occasion of her Royal Highness's sleeping un-
der the tent during the return voyage?—lt was in conseqtlence
of the excessive heat, and of the animals aboard.
Do you recollect any circumstance relating to a light being
kept under the tent?-1 do.
What was it 7—On leaving Jaffa, reports were in circulation
that there were pirates in the Archipelago. I represented to her
Royal Highness that to keep a light on the deck all night would
serve to mark us out for attack.
Had you, 1.1 point of fact, seen any Tunisian corsairs your-
self?—Ye', one at Scio, and another at St. Jean d'Acre.
Did you know of -our own knowledge that the pirates had
plundered any vessels ?—I knew it only from report. I could
have no knowledge myself of the circumstance.
' Di.: you, in the situation which you held, think it a matter of
duty to give the advice which you gave to her Royal Highness?
did.
In consequence of that advice was the light put out at an ear.
lier hOur?-=-,liluch earlier.
Whit was the general time every night at which the light was I
put out ?—At nlnt Or ten o'clock. It might be sometimes earlier,
sometimes later.
lbw., many sofas were on board the polacca?—Four.
Do 'you know in what part of the ship the sofis were placed?
—Two were lashed together in her Royal Highness's cabin, and
. -
two in the Countess Oldi's cabin. •
Was there any alteration made afterwards in the situation of
the sof:lit—TA CoUntess Oldi sent one of them out of her cabin.
Where was It sent?--It was occasionally on deck, and in
the tent.-'
What was there in the tent besides the sofa?—Under that
•,
there was a travelling bed. '" * •
Db you krioW 'whether these was any communication open
betweed the tent and any part a Vie vessel below —There was
i ladder *Bid Vant'down Waif. " ' •
The hocr o forat having arrived', on the MUGU of Berl Gans,
the Rouse sajoiumett.

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