Star.
London, England, 1816-02-27 00:00:00

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 27, 1816.

PAi2LIAMENTifRT PROcEEDINGS.•

• • HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY ie.
Oriel were heard finally. and in continuation, In the Scots
Cause of" Balfour v. Luntsdains"—Jodgment post pmed.
The Royal Assent was given, by Commission (the first this
Session), to the Glass Duties, the Cochineal Imponation, and
Lord Gower's Indemnity Bill. fhe ComMlssioners were the
1.010 COUNCILLOR, the Duke of Allowraess, and the Earl of
SIAOTISIOII T. •
On the Writ of Error cause." Doe, on The demise of Oxendon
is. 8h Arthur Chichester, Bert Counsel were finally beard.
when the Loan Culascat.Loa, arter some introductory observe
does. proposed that certain questions arising out of a legal visit
of the case, be referred to the cossideratina of the Learned
Judges (who were in attendance) which was ordered ae•
'3l"4lllfiff•

TUNtaRiENT OF THE PILLOET.
Earl STANHOPE, before the Judges withdrew,
took an opporttnity to address the House npdn this
subject. He observed, their Lordships.would recol-
lect that in the last Session of Parliament, a Bill had
been broight-up to them from the House of Com-
mons respecting the abolition of the pillory. It was
then suggested by a Noble and Learned Lord, and
approved by theNoble•Earl on the Ministerial Bench,
that it would be very proper to submit the subject to
the Learned Judges, in order that they might draw'
up a Bill upon it. The cause was generally stated
to be a proper one, and that the Judges should be
'directed to form into one Bill all the laws relative to
tligimunishment of the pillory, as on a former Nal-
eWoccasion all the laws that related to the penalty
el' death, were proposed 'to be included in one Act.
In the subject referred te, he thought it. peculiarly
proper to have called upon the Judges to draw up an
Act of Parliament for the House, so that all the laws
moon the subject should be consolidated into one.
Under that impression he had moved a resolution,
that the Learned Judges should prepare and lay be.
fore the House a Bill, to reduce into one Act all the
laws then in force, which prescribed the penalty of
the Pillory, or authorised the infliction thereof. He
inquired, and had not found that any such Bill had
been delivered. He was sure he should never speak
of the Learned Judges of the land, save with the
greatest respect. But when their Lordships made
an order, and when, as he learned, from the votes of 1
the Commons, that the subject is now agitating there,
he must be allowed to express his opinion, that it
were better such a Bill had been prepared by '
Judges, and submitted to that House previous to a
Bill coming op again from the Commons on the
same subject. He merely suggested the propriety of
such a cause, without making any formal motion
nOw upon the subject. It may, however, be proper
to know, what had been dune on the occasion, or
whether such a Bill had been framed. No doubt a
sufficient reason may be assigned ; but he had no
doubt as to whatever was the duty of the Lord Chief
Justice at the head of the illustrious and learned body
in question, and as those Learned Personages were
thee present. be thee& it right to say 4EI std[ its
order that their Lordships may be informed if any
mistake had occurred in the delivery of the notice,
that it may be clearly known such an order was
made, and that some hint may be given when it
would be attended to. With respect to an opinion
which had been given last year, that nothing could
be more cruel than to heap additional trouble upon
the Judges, who were already borne down by the im-
mense weight of btisiness allotted to them, be had to
observe. he had more than once urged their Lord-
ships to have assessors of their own, for the transac-
tion of such important business as that referred to.
For instance, if one of the Judges, a Master in Chan-
cery, and a sound Common-Law Lawyer, were to
attend the House as its Assessors, and to submit to
them various important statutes, erroneously drawn
op, for correction, or for reducing various laws into
one Act, upon a given subject, much more good
would be done, in those respects, than had of late
been even attempted.—After a short pause,
Lord Viscount Sir-MOUTH reported the an-
swer of his Royal Highness the Prince Regent to an
Address of the House for papers, that directions
should be given accordingly ; and also that the Ad-
dress of Monday last had been presented to his Royal
Highness, and most graciously received.
Earl BATHURST, by command of the Prince
Regent, laid upon the table certain documents pur-
suant to an Address of their Lordships.
The Naval Courts Martial Bill was read a second
time; the other Bills upon the table were respectively
forwarded.

tip proposed by the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Ex.
tier, but upon the merits of the queseinn itself, being per-
, flinty convinced that unless the.necessity of the case valued, his
Majesty's present Ministers, or indeed any set of Ministers,
would feel as little dsvesed to impose trirthens on the country
as the country could be to receive them when solmposed.
It bas been sugkested by an Hon. Alderman, that the best mode
(erasing the supply:in the year would be by a loan ; I differ, Sir,
from the Hon. Alderman materially. The effect of such a mea-
snre-watild be to depress a market already tooinuch depressed.
and In my opinion; the only way in which we can extricate our- '
selves from our preient &Smiths, and I am sure the most speedy
mode of alleviatink the distresses of that portion of the commu-
nity which is now so much depressed, is the support of the credit
of the country; that once effectual and great into: of money
would Sod its way Into the country, that Influrwould produce
enterprise, and that enterprise is the life and soul of sericulture
and all mercantile pursuit'. When I last year. Sir, had the ho.
now of presenting a Petition similar to that now in your hands,
I atinetly stated to my Constituents, that if could not have my i
support, but that if the Continuance of the Property Tex was pro-
posed beyond one year, either Lathe, modified, or reduced, such
proposition should meet with my opposition. At that time, Sir,
we were in a state of peace; circumstances have since occurred
which could not have been In the contemplation of thy one—we I
have had a short, glorious, yet expensive war; necessities have
necessarily arisen, end those necessities we are consequently' '
tallest upon to provide for, and I see not how they cad be better
provided too, and se the middling and lower enders of
todety, ash? the manner proposed by the Rie4Hon. the Chin-
cellar of the Exchequer. I do. however, Sir, Oat and hope that
when the permanent pease establialunent can be asfdy bled,
when by retrenchment and when by a due, I mean not. Sir, a al
economy, the limners of the country can be improved, the Chap-
cellar of the Exchequer will be as anxious to repeal the Tax, as
the people can be to have that Tax repealed. It has been stated,
Sir, and I believe by a Right Honourable Gentlemanwhons I do
not sow see in his place, that be hoped the Electors Of the King-
dom at large would look with a jealous eye tweeds ne,
thi their
Representatives, who were found supporting the measure of the
revival of the Property Fax, wham brought Into this House by
the Right Hun. the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Sir,entertain-
ing sentiments as I do of the Motive duties of a Representative
to his Constituents, I will never be restrkted front performing
my public duty as my judgment &recta, and my conscience dic-
tates. Upoo all public and yodel matters as affecting the Srate,
I shall ever consider myself as the repmen•ative of the nation at
large, happy, however, to receive the opinion and advice of those
who have vomited me with the great charge of their represen-
tation, but still more happy if, upon due reflection, such advice
and opinion' an be made to assimilate with those ideas I may
myself have forayed upon the subject. In all local matters I shall
ever, Sit, consider myself as bound implicitly to follow the direc-
tions of those who have seat me hither."
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 211. •
In consequence of the Call of the House, the gal.
lery was not opened till near seven o'clock.
PETITIONS AGAINST THE PROPERTY TAX.
Mr. BROUGHAM, on our entering the gallery,
was addressing the House, with a large petition ih
his hands, against the Property Tax.
Sir FRANCIS BURDET I' presented a petition.
from certain inhabitants of the City of WeStmins'er,
against any revival of the Property Tar, the peti-
tioners viewing the attempt to renew it u a violation
of the solemn pledge. of Ministers. The petitioners
complained, in becoming terms, of the heavy and in.
quisitorial tax, which the Government had threa-
tened to revive ; and the Hon. Baronet added, the
-map *au of ti.lakiog seen--they were
impatient at the continuance of war burdens, but it
was an enlightened impatience. The petitioners also
complained, and most properly, of the large standing
army which it was proposed to maintain during a
period of peace. Read, and ordered to lie on the
Table.

Sir JAMES SHAW presented a petition from
Broad-street Ward against any revival of the Pro-
perty Tax. This Ward, the Hon. Baronet observed,
had not assembled for any political purpose during
the last 25 years, but the rumoured intention of Mi-
nisters to renew the Property 'l'az they could not
view with indifference or in silence. (Hear, ear.)
Read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
Mr. W. SMITH presented a petition from the
City of Norwich.
Mr. MELLISH one from St. Anne's Limebouse.
Mr. HALE one from the neighbourhood of
Swansea, Glamorganshire.
Lord F. OSBORNE presented four petitions from
the Isle of Ely, and different places in Cambridgeshire.
Lord MILTON presented petitions from the
town and neighbourhood of Doncaster, the Land-
holden and inhabitants of Northallerton, the parish
of Cattingham, and from North Cave, and South
Cave, in Yorkshire I all being against. the Property
`Tax, the petitioners trusting that the pledge of Par-
liament and the Ministers would be redeemed, and
that the impost would be allowed to terminate with
the war. _ _

Severally read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
Sir T. ACLAND said he had 26 petitions from
aandry places in Devon'shire to present. The first'
petition was from the North of Devon, which repre-
sented the distressed condition of farmers, that it had
been considerably increased by the process issued for
the collection of tales, and that many were in con-
sequence in the Sheriff's ward, from which distresses
they prayed to be relieved. Another was from Ti.
verton, which dwelt on the great increase of poor-
rates from the depression of agricultural employment.
Others were parochial petitions ; but there was some
difference between the prayers of all of them ; they
did not all directly pray for the repeal of the Pro-
perty Tax. Some, for instance, prayed for the non-
renewal of the. Property Tax—others begged that it
might be modified—others mixing the Property Tax
wi the. poor rates, prayed some relief from their
pressure.; and one from the Coast, preyed that the
duty on salt might be discontinued,' which would
enable them to carry on an export that was now al-
most profitless to them.
The first, petition from the North of Devon having
,been read, and ordered to lie on the Table,
Sir I'. D said he' did not wish to trouble
rthe House to ave all the petitions read, as he had
described thecharacter of them. Those that were
from the occupiers of land complained of the unequal
burden imposed on them by the Property Tax, that
the tax was not ten but seventeen and a half per cent.
on them, and that they • were not able to appeal
against the charges made upon them like tradesmen.
He therefore thought it would be :Wicket to have
W remainder read short.

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PRICE SEVRv-!`r • n.

Mr. TIERNEY was of a diffeient
wished all of them to be read, that the House might
know what the petitioners really did s ty. According
to all that had fallen from the Hon. BArt,net, there
appeared to be a good deal of " of ignorant impa-
tience" in Devonshire to be relieved from taxation.
(Hear, and a laszi.)
Sir T. ACKLAND had no objection to the read.
ing of all the petitions—he had only been desirmis
save the time of the House. (Hear.)
Mr. TIERNEY meant to throw tin imputation oa
the Hon.. Baronet • he only wished the House to.rub-
tain some very useful information.
After about ten or a dozen of the 26 petitions had
been read,

Mr. CAATVIRLGT-IT rose, and submitted whe-
ther the House had not heard enough of the peti-
tions ? Hear, hear.)
Mr. T/ERNEY replied, that his only object is
desirin.the petitions to be read. was, that the attest.
Lion of the House might be called to there—bat it
seemed no attention had hes;n, or could be paid to
them. (Thar, aid laughier.)
The remaining petitions were then fully read, and
ordered to lie on the Table.

Mr. PONSONBY ()burled, that possibly the
Hon. Members opposite might now know som..thing
of the contents of the petitions for their better
information he would state, that 20, out of the 26,
were against the Property Tax—the rest corapiainiag
generally of distress and heavy taxation.
Sir T. ACLAND replied, that late as the Peti.
tions had come to him, he made it his business to
read them, and notwithstanding what had fallen Irani
the Right. Hon. Gentleman, he was inclined to abide
by his original representation of those Petitions._
According to the fair meaning of words, and gene.
rality of the prayers of the Petitions, the Petitioners
complained of general distress, and mentioned the
Property Tax ,as one of their burdens; but he
thought the House would agree with him, after hav-
ing heard the 26 Petitions read, that in the fair sense
of such language. not one halt of the Petitions could
be said to be against the Property Tax. bear.)
Mr. PONSONBY would not pretend to put the
accuracy of his ears in competition with the accuracy
of the Honourable Baronet's eyes, the Hon. Btronet
having stated that he had read the Petitions, awl
therefore ought to know something of their contents;
but he nevertheless maintained the accuracy of his
original statement, that 20 out of Vie '26 Petitions
contained prayers against the Property Tax ; in some
of them that prayer was mixed up with other mat-
ters, but twenty contained such prayer, or he had
lost his hearing.
Sir.T. ACLAND again rose and persevered in
speaking, although there were cries of " Spoke !
spoke!"
The SPEAKER stated that there was no question
before the House.

bin TIERNEY added, that the Hon. Baronet
could not be allowed to petsevere, as there ready
was no question before the House ; but if the discus.
sion of this subject were deemed sn very e nteirtitiniug
the House had better order the Petitions to be reed
over again.—(A laugh.)
Sir JAMES SHAW presented a Petition from
Farringdon Within, against any renewal of the Pro,
party Tax.
On the motion that it lie on the table—

Lord FOLKSTONE could net but express his
astonishment at the way in whi:h petitions on this
most important question had been brought, before
the House, especially where one Member happened
to have a considerable number to present. This was
the first time that he had seen 20 or 26 Petitions in.
traduced as they had been that night, and on a ques•
tion of such importance that was agitating from one
end of.the country to the other.—(Hear, hear.)—To
him such manner was extremely unsatisfactory. If
any Member chose to adopt such course towards his
constituents, that was his business ; but he should be
sorry to see the day arrive when the petitions of the
people of England were to be regularly received in
such way. If petitions by the score and hundred
were to be smuggled into the House in such manner,
what probability was there of their having a fair
chance of effecting their object According to such
system, when one or two petitions 'were presented,
they must be read ; but when they poured in by
twenties and hundreds, a proof, of how much more
importance they were, then they were to be smug.
gled into the House without being read at all._
According to such practice, neither the House, the
public, nor the petitioners, would know what became
of the petitions. There was another practice of mo.
dern times, of which he must also complain, namely,
that of only printing in their votes the n.twAs and
,prayers of such petitions as were presented, instea I
of the leading features of the body of each petition.
In future he hoped this practice would be amended,
and pirtieularly that all Members would refraiu
from presenting Petitions in the mass ; he trusted
that they would separately notice ►nl present them.
Petition ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. BARING presented a Petition from Dirking,
In Surrey, against the Tax. At the same time be
expressed his hope that Members, who might hay'

. tght. _Jr
Petitions to present, would impartially notice their
contents, and not give to such contents the colouring
of their min impressions.
The Hon. F. ROBINSON vindicated the Hon.
Baronet (Sir T. Acland) from this attack, as he it
was that was meant by such intimation, although be
had not been particularly pointed out. If ever there
were an unjust attack, this was one—(Hear) —for he
believed the House would agree that the general del
scription given of the mass of Petitiods was correct,
arid that such description was not coloured by iml
pressions or statements which they did not warrant.
—(Hear. Lear.)
Mr. BARING could not retract what he had
stated, and he thought the House would agree with
him, that hod the Honourable Baronet ielr as the
Petitioners did on tbis subject, be would have lame.

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