Star.
London, England, 1828-05-21 00:00:00

He again repeated, he would not have entered into suck
&toil if he had not understood that his reasnnable re.
quest would be objected to. The Honourable Member
corajuded by mowing for Returns of all pensions on the
English, Irish, and Scotch Pension Lists, up toJanusty

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said.
it would not be necessary for • bins (o-failoTwitsii-IfOrs-,- •
Member through his details for Half-pay, and Penstocks,'
and Grants, made for military-and civil •services„which
redounded so much to the honour of the country. Nei-
' they would he enter upon tre basis upon which the Ora
List was granted at the commencement of the present
reign, the great object of that arrangement being to
prevent the subject from coming unnecessarily before,
the public. Having said so much as to the ornamental, •
or rather incidental part of the Honourable Member's
speech, he would now apply himself strictly to the mo-
tion before the House. The Honourable Member ha
•
before made a similar motion, which was rejected by
Mr. Canning. In fact, in whatever fund the pension toe
Mr. Canning should fall, it would equally fall to a cer-
tain extent on the ptiblic. In one fund a restraint was
imposed as to the sum to be charged ; but the only effect
of Mr. Canning's pension would be, for the present, to
displace some other civil servant from the amount pro.
posed for his family. It would not be right to inquire'
into the arrangementi of the Civil List. He begged to.
be heard, unless the Crown called for an increase to
the Civil List, or unless pensions were improperly given •
away, Parliament could not, interfere. If such cases
had occurred, if they had been stated to-night....
Mr. HUME—No, I said the reverse.
. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was .
ture,that the Honourable Member had said some uteri. • ..,
torious persons had pensions on those lists. and no cot.
'minion whatever had been even stated, much less
established. The authurity of Mr. Buvlce• was quoted
by Ole Honourable Member; but he only contended that
any Oublicatidn should take place when corruption was
pruned to have been really prActised. . The , English
Civil List was limited ; that limit was not passed, and
such accounts he would not give; but with iespett to
the Aetnrns as. to the Irish and Scotch Lists,' he had
not :the least objection that they thoUld, be laid be-
fore} the House. Such a .coprse_. he thought, at the.
same time, the most dignified towards -the Crown, and.
the most,con•enient towards'the HeuseL-(Hear, bear),
Lord ALTHORP.said,lie.had in vain waited to hear'
the reasons which could. be. adduced for : resistance to
this motion. It-was said that no abuse); had been stated;
but how was it possible for the -House to know if
.the list was not produced? lf
.the teOppriaijonhad
taken place candidly and fairly; "thy
,dfiject to its-
production? If it weye•refsssed, this.oese and the
country would no doubt trace such.refosal to-the. only
just and assignable cattsei-namely, that while Ministers
talked of .their respousihilityiitliterally. Encrust not h ing. !
Mr. Secretary HUSKISSON said, it was quire, true :.
that Parliattiedt hatlihniTedtheliaglish Pension Lista* •,
92,0001, and at the
.o.iitstifiliiftied the ' ritesdf Ptiiisibe
beyond which tintiti4o4tri he, preillerly.'grini ed tiOiii.
it. . The Hon. Metnber tlitrji usate) had:gate4•that4e;
only found one ortwo‘meritorious_ persons intbe Fraislist: .
Pension List..—("No, no," trim W.' Heme). Pest ntt
the Honourable MeitibsiiSAid so, and 'na,torditini ('jr.',
Huskisson) as one of them. .But Whether that-were in •'
or not, he (Mr. Huskisson) never would consent that acts
of favour and munificence lieitci!illf t.ti WOrthy-iiidivi:,
duals by. the Crown, should isnriecessargibe.M3di., Ati.k. I.
subject-Of nightly discussion . its that Astute. • li.tlle.
..Civil List of the Crows were ler be called for and imbed
to at any other
.paper of accaunti; ankh' Of 'the tie
'of die House Viciiild be &W OW .duritiA .every 'So.
ion, discussing tie patusre Of,.ilitiA.4d!lee .seliiChyAs.
'given .w she .:.Crowns trpeo •Ahe-respore sdiiiity .Of his •
Majestylis,q&ernuient - This comae -of- proceediap
-Woulskb i. iiil!,,;oliphy of Pailippenti atidlb ttp diVest the' •
Crown, of fieatom'ing,.i,44l44 #74,140biN77,
•(Heir):::
Yeii•heiwould repeat ebatJavour, wbcl le.sitould ever
'be in the power of the•Crosus to bestfter.r.: In the dbli
settee of tlie 'Act' 61 Parliament 'of- 1782,40* in 'The full
spirit of the Civil 4sti he diiitendedtlibethi'ffOliteiiias
ntloalie4.npog tg. deal Wiettt.h.rfetailt:Of'its'applica-
tion-4.tbe specified amopot.osh 1)4,7 g; exceide4llo; any
oorauet • *replication of ititatring .been.attempted.to be
stated. By the Vtliseetioh-or Mt: Burke's Act' if the
suds fixed, were exceeded, then 'nil-doubt• Parliament '
could inter tem ; litti titilir-igeTtitifisivini litirn giiiiteit.'
it was deaf to demonstration • that no detiill could be
properly celled for. The Honourable Member (Mr.
Him) bast said,..atat. siti.ce 'the per 181.6. there Isik
beet a groat depre,sion. in.prices,. aid a depreciatiba.(4.
the value of money, yet if his principle of controul and.
examination Wile to be pushed to its extent, they must
inquire what Pr.ife's tiere paid-for proiisiOns—what frit'
oats—and thewhole:establishment of thiSterlard- of
the Household, and the Lord Chamberlain's Office
should be, submitted to the inspectionof,Parliatnent.—
Sich• he was -sure could never bate. been- the object
of Mr. Burke's *Act—neither could' it be a subject
for the jealous interference of a British Huse of Corn- '
nions. It should:he rememheredi also, *that the Cryil
List was granted:for the life of, the Sovereign ;.6ut 1:e
believed that a motion similar to the,present had been
on' ifiagprei • hecisib4, brought ihrward by the Hon.
/n
enalser,(l4.4 „flume); indMeifiejiCied frf the noose:
I theerow• same for, relief' to Parliament, theri the i
um Member might introduce such topics as be had
indulged in that evening, but not 'otherwise, except is-
deed in a case where the demise of the Crown might be
fairly contemplated, when a near regalkion„ would pro-
bably become necessary. He bad much to regret that
the civil expenses had been redroved from the Civil Lists
and that indeed must be a most unfortunate stateof
things, wben.the Crown .was to be sold that ic 31"
oothing to do htewith the mere. expenditure...of the
household. • It was said that the Ambassadors of the
King should not be paid by him, but by Parliament.
Mr. HUMt:—.And, why not?
.
Mr. HUSKISSON.-.Why, besaose we 'ha ppily EV
under a Monarcry,.andlte would never consent that
the Ambassador at the)Citi at Foreign Courts should
be the Ambassador of' this Hotise(tlear, hear.) .14e,.
would say the same thing of the Judge,, and seielarry
of the •administration of justice, which added to the
dignity and honour of the Sovereign, and never should
be separated entirely from a proper connexion with
If.the Hon. Member grounded his motion upon the Act
•cif 1782, he should be bound by it, and it was clear that
it was igaipst him in point of practice ever since that
period. Thelrish and Scotch Lists exceeded the limits
of Mr. Burke's Act. Parliament had. therefore, a right
tb inquire into the subject, and no objection would be
made to that part of the Hon. Member's motion. The
Englislk Lisr.showed no such excess, and if they wet!
now to call on the Crown for an account of
the expen-
ditute of the Civil List, it would be literally to rake
away all that wholesome restraint which the col:trail
practice had so long imposed upon the Advisers of the
Crown. Every necessary check elisted at present;
ion
abuses .were proved to exist, and under such cucu -
-.s. he was-prepared to resist a pan ut the Han-

[ember's motion. -
After some dreoltory observation from Dr. Loam?or" gte