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London, England, 1803-06-24 00:00:00

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Mr. CAt.etur r :ore And laid, riot skll:ltever might
fall from li.ni upon the ftihjea of this armament, he
vaulted it would at lei!: he. believed, that nothing was
farther fiima his tiniir..thts, than to he the means of
imileciiwz. even if he could, the c:;,,r.s of Govern-
ment, in the Tern obj,:a,whicii they ,a ere fo anxious
to arcompla, as that of defeating the ilfitlious or
driPera:c deligns of France at this important crifis.
At the fame cine, jc lions as he ccrtaiti;y for the
lion,tir a rid ft fet y r 1 his Country, he thottlit indeed be
guilty of a breach of his doty to that Country, which
in common with all others of his kiiiitv Mbjeac, he
was bound to for it, and of a dertliaion of his
duty as a Member of that Houle, if he did not de-
clare, that the mcafure now propofed by hisMajefty's
Minifiers was inadequate to the end defired. It was
underflood, at leaft he hoped In, that this was bus
the part of a more general plan and fyftem. If that
were the cafe, he contended, that the Chancellor of
the Exchequer fhaCull have fubmitted to the Houle
the whole of this plan he hid arranged or in contem-
plation ; when the Country is told that defence is the
ob;eg, he feared that defence would be of little avail,
unlefs it was capable of aging offenfivelr. For that
reafon, he thought it would have been infinitely more
'wife and prudent, to have tilled up the regiments of
the line, and provided each of them with that com-
plement of men that belongs to them firth, and then
turned the refources of the Country towards fiapplv-
ing it with this augmented Militia. In fag, this
yo,aoo lo given to the Militia, he confidered were fo
many taken from the line. The very fame complaint
prevailed during the late war, when the fencible re
gimeot, were railed; and Government ought to have
pro:ited by experience, and not have recourfe to
means which would ultimately, he was fully perfuad-
ed, produce ilmilar t ffegs. Men, it was true, may
be got, but he was veejr apprehenfive that Officers
would not and could not he obtained in the period
flappofed by Minillers, to command, at leaft to difci
pline them. The fituation of the Country will there-
fore he, if this Bill pallet its its prefent fhape, that it
will have regiments of the line not poffelling their full
complement of men, and regiments Of Militia poll-e-
-1-mg men without officers. He concluded by vindicat-
ing' the condo& of Mr. Windham, and thole who aged
with him, from the charge of flations oppofition.
They were above all Inch mean confederations and
aged from /natives of themoll honourable nature.

Mr. SO EILIDAN confidered this difcullion as prema-
ture. He obferved that, until the feveral blanks in
the Bill were filled up in a Committee, it would be
altogether-unfair and unparliamentary to difeufs them
by anticipation, the more efpecially as Gentlemen
could not, without Tome titre to relied upon them,
rightly underfland the true purport, extent, or force
of the meafure propofed: to enable Gentlemen to do
that, it was intended to fill the blanks in the Commit-
tee, have the Bill printed, and appoint a convenient
day for its further confederation. He was as anxious
as the Hon. Gentleman who had kilt fat down, to at
with vigour, with boldnefs, and with manlinefs, and
he was alfo as earneß for thong meafures as any man
in the Houfe. But when that Gentleman talks of
fupplying the regiments of the line by ballot and by
compulfion, he mull Rand up in his place, and at
once mire his voice again it. He appealed to the
candour Lf the Houfe whether it was the fame to
compel a man to go to foreign parts, and be a fat-
dier for life, and to call upon him to defend his fire-
fide in the moment of imminent danger? There was
no kind of comparifon in the cafe. No man would
hefitate a moment when his country was in danger ;
but in the defence of the realm, the King, by the
proclamation of the Sheriff of the county, can call
on all the inhabitants, by Royal prerogative, to arm,
and they mull obey ; but, then, their arming and
their fervice has its finite termination; whereas the
man who is forced into the line againft‘his content
liar no alternative, and mull remain a foldicr for life.
With refped to the meafure now before the Houle,
he would referve till the proper feafon what he had to
offer, and give it fuch aid as he could afford.
CALCCIar, in explanation, Paid, that he only
reforted to the vindication of ballotting for men, be-
eagle he heard it Bated on the other fide of the Houfe,
that men could not be obtained by bounty.
Sir GILIIRT FhATMCOTIL avowed the fame Cenci-
ments as Mr. Calera& He thought, if the people
of this country looked with fo much apathy and in.
difference to the dangers of their fituation, and•would
not come forward for the defence of their country,
retort mull inevitably be had to compulfory means.
It was ridiculous to defer the efficient means of de-
tence until au enemy (tumid have adtially landed,
and then to talk of a riling es neje. It would be,
indeed, truly ridiculous to think of oppnfing a vete- '
ran army of the enemy, even on our own (pores, LI
a rnsfs of farmers and mechanics, armed with tlic
implements of their profeffions. Such a force might
certainly be of great fervice to annoy an enemy, it'
ftipported by a numerous and well•difciplined army.
But even upon the Militia, though a gallant and well
trained force, and animated, as he was convinced
they were, with the grcatell courage and ardour for
the defence of their country, yet they were not the
kind of troops to be entirely relied on, againtt fuels
an army as they would have to encounter, unlefs
they were blended with a numerous army of troops
of the line, obis mat, in all refpeds, be better cal-
culated for fervic: againfl a regular army.
Mr. W. ELLIOTT began by Rating his opinion, that
this sneafure was not of a kind calculated to meet the
end prnpoted. If the country were in danger, and
in a Hate that required extraordinary exertion', then
he expreillJ his decifirt 'emir:rents on the neceffity of
hit in:4 a 111:': array; but it &mid be filch an army
as u as c to alt on general fervice, and be-
coni,; fable lnthe isiefent aw.
;TO 7:1,1 ;:!•miL loTTletilillg more was re.
: mail sits an adjund of weighty
•‘i:; *.it i• all ..Or Cu. would be eon.
f.i!r4l, 1 .yr c re-ttons inefficacious. Au army
r lbould he fuch a dif-
•:u: . 1 :•: array which molt beneficial in
I. offenlive oi-eratit.ns. and
• 5, • • ti:at was imprliii le ;or a Tyro in
I ...alcs tt. anitutaletit.mcl it. With refped to the
r ••cr iccr.:•;.i!-, it was a ci cumtlat.ce exceed•
at b (L.nipaiifon whatever
to poli..latira of the v, IA that its
i•int-s ti-- titicig7.lcy made little
nt ,: f•cr..ir .•• is • wt.!, an•l I.i:c.i.f. in times
•:•• p• ..cc. ltut u hen it was cen-
t .1- 7 : r.. fr.:rine detrAfts from it, how
t:• : ct the country, its commerce

and its arts, operate as a drawback againft it, tiip
dirticolty of accounting for it is confiderably
armn-
nilhcJ. So many inducements to civil iife proceed rd
from their fources, that lefs encouragement is pre-
' feared to enter into a military 1;le in this count! y, and
there account for t!•: prevailing deficiency of the
army recruiting, and have, in a considerable chtgrees
count:mei:A it ; particularly when it is confidered,
that the extent of the bounty for militia fubuitutes
has been increaled from ten guineas to fifteen guineas
a man. The great inconvenience ariling from this
is, that we have taught the people to look for large
bounties, and the difficulty hence to procure recruits
of the line inereafes in the proportion. He profellid
hinifell a friend to the militia tyllem upon its original
fcale, and in that, although he diffared
f. orn his Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Windham), yet
he by nu mean; considered it as an effective torte,
calculated for hazardous, ikilful, and, at the fame
time, important enterprifes. By ballot a force of 7o
or 80,000 could eafily be railed ; but he was perfuach
ed fuch a force could not be railed by bounty, with-
out exhausting the'recruiting refources of the line.—
He contended, there thould be fair competition in
that refpeCt, or the line would never have juSt ice done
it. The l'ne is our bell hope, and if this measure be
put into effett, recourfe mutt be had to compulfory
means to complete the line. It was his firm opinion,
that ualefs by regular forces, correctly and faithfully
difcipiined, we meet an invading vim:, fuels an
enemy as France prefents herfclf at this moment, the
ruin that will follow cannot be calculated. A militia
force may he animated with as much courage as the
boldeit veterans, hut when it is found to he brit a raw
undifciplined mars, it is not their courage on the Jay
of trial that will fail them ; it will be by their capa-
city, joined, it is true, rith a fuperior malt of regu-
lar troops, that their efficacy may be manifelled.—
*Young men, with old and experienced officers, will
do much. We have ample proofs of that, horn the
militia of America, who, by contlant fervice, were at
last constituted regular troops. But if this country be
left without a difpofable force to employ the enemy on
his own &ores, wt fhall have nothing to keep them
from or out of our own. To thole, if any there be,
who are deilroui•Of an army without aim or end—to
thole he fpoke, and, he trusted, not ufelefsly. Having
glanced then at the injury the militia fyßem of Scot-
land and of Ireland did to the recruiting fyllem in
general throughout the empire, the Hon. Gentleman
neat proceeded to Rate his objeaions to the abufe that
crept into the fervice by railing men for rank, for
young men defirous of rank will not comply with the
regulated prices, but extend to hafien their promotion.
This gives precedence to wealth in preference to me-
rit, and constitutes thole who are the principals in it
little better than crimps. In all he faw it was evident
that Minifiers were but retracing pall errors ; a dull
fyllem of defence was fubflituted alfo for the bold
fpirit of enterprise; and when he beheld this, be could
not, with fincerity of heart, look up to any happy iffue
from the conceit. Mirifersoughttohavebeenprepared
before now; they ought to have been ready now to
meet an enemy. When bis Majesty's Mefage on the
tit of March was delivered to this Houk, they ought,
on that moment to have commenced their preparations.
Nay, when they were apprized that the Instinct's of
thole (pies called " Commercial Agents" was detefted
in December lag, they ought to have armed then;
they knew the temper of the man with whom we had
to contend, and they might have anticipated his de•
figns. If, inaead of the high founding accounts they
reported of the fiourifhing Rate of our arts, manufac-
tures, commerce, and agriculture, they had deviled
a formidable plan to check the common toe, they
would have aged more conformably to their relpec-
tive duties, and to their Country's advantage, than
by the condu& the/ have purfued.
The Sac RRRRRR at Waft in reply Rated, that if
the Right-Hon. Gentleman had only waited till he
fliw the Bill in its printed Rate, many of his übfervit-
lions that night would be found wholly unaeccffary.
lie would admit, however, that the Hon. Gentle-
man was jultified in fume of his remarks. He wonted
that a miftake which that Right Hon. Gentleman had
made, with refpea to " tracing back former errors,"
might be rectified ; that there might !Owe been errors
committed by the late Minifters was very likely, but
certain it was, that nothing like tracing back former
errors could be difcoveredin this meafure, which was
allowed on all hands at leaft to have the merit of no-
velty with it ; as to 'Wing time, he thought it alit.
proper to let him right upon that head, and if that
Gentleman would refer himfelf to his Majesty's Mel*.
fa e, he would find his charge for lots of time againft
Minifters wholly groundlefs. Since the Treaty of
Amiens every Rep had been taken to put the country
in the bell pofilbk Rate of pteparation for the alter-
native of war. He denied that the recruiting fervice
had been injured, or was likely to (offer any import-
ant interruption ; but that a force fo large as was
requited, could not be raifed within a Ilion period by
the ordinary operation of recruiting. He vindicated
the meafure as being perfectly confillent with the in-
creole of the regular army. This he particularly
argued from the liberty which would be given to en-
lilt men from the newly railed regiments, under cer-
tain regulations. After replying to come other ob•
let vations of formerSpeal,ers, lie fat down by calling
on the Houle to fupport a meafure of fuch import-
ance to the bell interefts of the Country.
Mr. Pore then role, and, in a fpeech difiinguißsed
by his ulna! ability, Rated the grounds on which he
had, after the matureß consideration, (Lief mined to
give his decided approbation to the principle of the
Bill. It was generally on the fame principles on
which oppofirion to the meafure had been firunded by
his Right Honourable Friend on the other tide (Mr.
Elliott) that he felt himielf called on to give it his
warm airport ; and all his pro ions motives for this
fupport load been materially Ilrengthend and con-
firmed by what had ;aft fallen from his It-glib Hon.
I riend, the Secteraty at War. No one was more
ready than he was to admit the importance of having
a Loge difpofable force for offenfive operations; but
there was one grand conlideration which tri,k prece-
dence of all others, and that v as an adequate provi.
lion for the immediate &fence of the country againft
thof• menaces of invantin which the enemy had fo
openly avowed. After this great object was provided
for dice-wally, no one would he more ready than
himfelf to fupport any meafure for forming fuels a
regular force as might lead to the vigorous and rue-
ctofill propfecution of the war for ellablithing filch
a drfpniable force as might furnilb us with the means,
whenever a fair rTening prvfented iifdt, of Striking

!to eTeCl'i hlnw agit'inft enemy. Pc
j wollld go as far as any one in his vi lilies to c
i,j„lenct• which rave rife to thefe threats of inv U,•:t
checked, the attacks of the enemy effcatially repelled,
and his mad am:)ition reptellitd ; but he thoti,Utt
that, in the riricipte of the mealure, there would be
found the only means of accornplifh:ng there gitat
ohjeas. Important, however, as there conliderati-us
were, there was one to which we were called upon to
give paramount attention, and that was, as he had
already Paid, the effeanal defence of the country.—
What we hid in the firit inliance to attend to, was
the belt mode of giving us complete teem ity again&
any hidden attack, we had to collect all the refourcei
and the energies of the country, and then we might
think of the means of mnft fignally infliaing on the
enemy the vengence which his unprovoked aggrefliort
deferved. It would be grange, however, that Lim-
ated as we now were, we &add think it a talk too
humble to look our fituation fully in the face, to think
lightly of the menaces of a power by whom one half
of Europe had already been fubdued, and to retort to
no meafures by which alone our fafety could be ob-
tained. If, indeed, we were willing to (well the la
of the degraded vatFals of the conqueror, we might
hold filch a language, but it was utterly incontinent
with every principle of proper rape& for the national
fccurity and honour. Puttied, however, to the ex-
tent in which the objcaions to the Bill might be car-
ried, though lie was perfealy convinced that nothing
was farther from the inzemion of his lion. Fiends,
they would defeat all effeaual mtafures for accosts-
plilhing the gland objet of immediate corifideration,
the defence of the country. If it were the objea of
NE:tillers, or if it could be the elTat of the Bill, .to
withhold the means of offenfive operations, arifing
from a large difporable force for general purpoteh
then indeed the objeaions of his Right llnnourable
Friend might have applied with great force. The
fill, however, had no fuch drat. The fa& was, it
was defigned to provide for the effeEtual fecurity of
the country, to raife, more freedily than could be
effeCted in any other way, a large force for limited
fervice, which force might at no very diflant period
be capable of being applied to general purpufes. If
within two months the enemy might aklually attempt
an invation, and within that period a force adequate
to the protedion of the country might he railed with-
in that time, and if within the fame period an equal
number of troops for general fervice could not by
any potßble exertions be procured, he left it to every
rifle ling man to confider, whether he could hefitate
a moment in adopting the firfl in preference to the lift
of there plans, however mach he might be a friead
to the propriety of enablifhing, with all p*lflble el-
relition, a large force for general fervice. It was
quite impolable, on any fair principle, to difpute the
propriety of a meafure which in the &II innance
should have the effed of providing complete fecurity
for this Wand. and fhould at the fame time fund%
the means of availing ourfehres of the firll openiag
for endeavout ing to repair the flame and rum of the
Continent. It was on this plain principle that the
meature had his approbation. If the prefent force
of the country was about go or 90,000, and if that
number could in a very &on period be doubled by
employing men fur limited fervice, and nothing like
the fame died could be produced by requiring a fin&
lair number for offenfive operation, he would afic.be-
caufe the tall object coulci.not be effeBed. whether
the fira was to be wholly abandoned ? He could not
conceive that any man would come forward and fup-
port fo monfirous a propofition. While we were
difcuffing the fuperior utility of employing troops of
the line, and dreaming of the importance of offenfive
operations, ruin might in the mean time be at our
doors. So far was he from thinking that the meafure
could at all injure the increafe of the regular army,
that after the moll ferions confideration of the robjeft.
and he affured the Houle that long before the Bill
was prefented, the fubjea had moll gravely occupied
his thoughts; he thought that, united, with the re-
gulations which would be engrafted on it. it would be
found to be the very bell plan which could be adopt-
ed, for providing, fooner than by any other method,
a large ditpofable force for general purpofes. He con-
ceived it to be the grongeft recommendation of the
meafure, that in one way it provided with more expo.
dition than by any other plan which can be adopted, a
large twee for limited fervice, and that a fervice
which was the primary objelf of confideratioa ; and
in another it laid the certain foundation of fecuring
a vaß.acceffion to the regular army, at the time when
that acceffion might be applied to purpofes of the
moll important nature. Not only did it not preclude
the augmentation of the regular army, but it afford-
ckl the greaten facilities for obtaining this augmenta-
tion with the lean pot ble difficulty. Even if themi-
litia were to be entirely difbanded, if the influence of
competition which did, he allowed, to a certain de-
gree interfere with the recruiting of the regular ar-
my, was removed, though by no means to the extent
for which fome Gentlemen were dirpolcd to contend.
he would argue that no fyllem of recruiting could
within a flout period procure fuch a number °frumps
as the exigencies of the country required. He &fir-
ed Gentlemen not to allow thertifelves to be carried
away with the notion, that the exigence of a large
mili:ia force was incompatible with the exigence of a
large regular army. The experience of forty years
clearly uifproved fuels an opinion. It ought sot to
be alined as a matter of courfe, that the militia fyf-
tem was incompatible with offenfive operations, or
necetrarily chained down the exertions of the country
to the limits of the ifland. The contrary was abuts-
dandy proved by the !shinty of the country. ZJM
fail was, that the period when militia was eitablithed.
was tile period which would be mentioned in bilker
as the height of the military glory of the country,
with the exception of the iiiumphant campaigns of i
MailbraougL. It was at the time when the militia
nem wANcdaliliflied that our army was on the bell
pantile eliabligament, and offenfive operations were
carried on on the moll e..ientivc reale. A good deal
had been Paid about the comparative value ci the ter-
vices of the militia and tie regular army, but at the
fame time it was admitted that this was merely a
queflion of degree. Now the fan was, that at the
preterit mornsiir we vowed a force of all kinds. It
had been 'hewn by the experience of the count Y. 40
years ago, that 30,c00 militia could be rtlintaisted
without at all injuring the ettaislilliment it the army :
and the qneftion now was, whetli.!r a much greater
'timber could not now be kept up without p:odoc-
jug any feriniis injory ? It would not. he conceived.
be denied that, lituat,:d tLe count:y 00W WV,

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t''fre 7... ts greo!er necerfity havint, a large
:Inentation of force be employed for ti e
L.,.e of the c oniry, titan of a 1111 Cu fOr ofFenlice opc-
; .;,ins abroad. enipteiiionably, nor means of de-
,-.lice ought to he more ~nalc!,otis to the means of
...Fence in the hands of the enemy than our means of
o:fenlive warfare, however important there might be,
when a favourable opportunity of retorting to them
prefented itielf. The quellion then came to be,
what ss 3S the mode by which, w.th the leaft
dilhcul-
Aty, our free might be doubled, or even trebled, if
loch an augmentation lhould be called fur by the
circumfiances in which the country was placed. He
was as ready as any of hi, Honourable Friends on
the other tide, to admit that a force for general fer-
vice was, with the view of availing ourfelves of the
openings, which, in the courfe of the war, were much
better calculated for ofFenfiec operations than a force
whole Cervices were limited to the defence of the coun-
try. He would not deny, the even with reference
to the ohJe,rt cf defence, they were preferable. He
admitted that troops under the command of officer So
who in foreign countries had teen revere fervices, and
had reaped the glories of their courage and their h•
boors, and who themfel •es flad that ed in there glo-
ries, we: e by their experience and their Bill entitled
to much more ci i :dente than troops who, with th
fame bravery, never enjoyed Slit means olimprosir,g
themfelves in the fchool of difficulty and danger.—
Allowing all this in the fullell extent, he confetfed he
did not fee how a great many general eoehines, net
which fo much (keels had been laid, were at all appli
cable to the fubjed before the Houle. When Gentle'
men talked fo much of the value of regular troops at
the prcfent moment, he fhould be glad to hear where
they were to be procured. They feemed to argue as
if we were to ballot not for the men, but for the experi-
ence, for the (kill, for the difcipline of vete' an folders.
Ifahe militia were afttially ditbanded, and the fyflern
of balloting were to be furpencled, would more dif-
cipline, more (kill, more experience be obtained?—
Would she individuals brought into the ranks palls
more of the charafter of regular troops ? As to the
•great quelion before the Houfe then, there general
doftrines led to a mere Motion. If, indeed, the me-
'maces of imitation. could be fufpended, if Bonaparte
would confent to delay his pre jeCt of attacking this
country till we had time to form a large army forge
astral fervice, andwould fuller this army to goabroad,
aad after learning experience in the art of war, re-
turn in (silty to the defence of the count, y, this would
be all very well ; and certainly he fhould not be at
difkofed tdcontrovkrt the potation, that in all cafes
regular troops. while they could be procured, were
preferable to thole poffeffing inferior difcipline, and
• more limited expel ience. As, however, the num
ber of men neceffary for the exigencies of the pub
tic fervice could net be obtained, a mealitre of the
nature now before the Houle was rendered indifiren-
fibly neceffary. In judging of the merits of the
'mature, Gentlemen ought to bear in mind that is
did not at all interfere with the future augmentation
of the regular forces. If there is in the Bill nothing
to preveat the recruiting of the army from the very
" force now to be railed ; if this recruiting is even
fanftioned by a pofitive claufe in the Isiah which, for
Lis part, he thought highly expedient, he fubmitred
to the Hotivhether tnis were not a better chance
of procuring very large augmentation to the at.
my by individuals entitling into the regular army nut
of the regiments now to be railed, than there would
be by endeavouring to procure this augmentation
by recruiting in the fink instance. In this way not
only would the public be raved a very confiderable
expence, hut indiviattals would be freed from mate-
rial inconvenience. Suppofing then that the number
of men to be railed by the provifions of the Bill
are aftually embodied, and that the recruiting
fervice continues to go on as ufnal, he of whether
any man doubted that 15 or ao,taco men could he
found ready to enlift into the regular army, if loch
a number as that was thought nee effary for undertak-
ing offenlive operations? After :he experience of',
what had been the alacrity of the militia in volunteer-
ing their fervices, he was lure that this could not be
confidered as an exaggerated anticipation. It was'
to be confidered, that the militia had made their of-1
fers of fervice under circumflances very different
from thole under which individuals in the regiments
now to be railed would be called on to offer them
(elves for admiffion into the regular army. The
officers of the militia, of cr all the exertions which
they had made in !slinging their regiments to a (late
of high comparative difeipline, had naturally Rrung
objeations to their being mutilated by the entitling
of 'aft numbers into the regular army. The fatty ion
of the officers in the regiments now to be railed was
totally different. Sn far were they from having any
with that the men lhould not enter into the regul at
army, that they would he inclined to encourage there
offers of let vice, and look forward to a period when
they themlelve, might have a command in a regular
regiment. That baore the end of the year a number
equal to that which he head already fitted would be
found to volunteer their cervices, was therefore not a
matter of conjeCture and experiment, but of almoht
abfolute certainty. If filch was then the cafe, he
put it to the confederation of the I lode, whether there
could be any thing like a reafonable profpeet of fo
Freat a body of troops being railed for the regular
arm, by the moft :alive recruiting for that period.—
He was fut-e that a great mak), ity of the Houfe would
agree with him in thitikin;a that the thing was utierly
impoffible. On this part of the iuhjeft he had only
one doubt, and it was out of very confiderable im-
rorranet. It had not hitherto been mentioned, hut
1, i. lieceffu y to mention it now, accompanied by a
feiv otrfervat ions. The okijeCtion was, that to permit
recruiting from the regime: is now to be railed, would
he levelly fiarverlive of their difcipline. He was
willing to allow that this ovoid he the cafe. if the re
iiitiog were allowed to be indifei iminate, if it were
to h: permitted at al! times, and above all, if the fie-
git.ime ptaffice of el inqiing was endured. fly proper
rega!atious, however, all the inc anvenienetcs witch
welt made the grounds of objee'lion, might he re-
moved. The entitling might take place on particular
e.s es rf matter ; on dick days. the officers might be
•oiliorired to receive offers of kr% ice from a eel olio
proportion of the men, and as in all probability three
r four times mote than were wanted would otT.7t, it
waroid remain with the officers to make choice of the
individual. whole offers n.ight he accepted. What
the particular Jays were 4111 MllOl the renr.r.,;(.s
fhould be made. it was not neceffary for the Officers
aricsioully to dal-clots. A power might be granted to

his aripoilit frillier whe-c7er
there :weary oat ic.il ir ,•e7cilly,by the pre. anis
notice of a I a ri.ight. i y this means no fiffilier w old
know when he was to quit his officer, and the dai:ger
of want of dif,:iplioe would be avoided. If he 'a as
at all right in there be was at all home
out in the conclulions which he had endeavoured io
ellablifh, the meaffire could not be denied to be one 1
whicb,while it made the molt effeCtual provition f, it the
liffity of the country, held out the molt effeetual prof-
peCt of providing, with the greatell expedition, for the
increale of the regular army. One of the principal
reafons which induced him particularly to give his
Corwin to the plan was, that it was diflinguilhed by
the tittnoft finylicity. The regulations applicable to
the miiitia, which the experience of forty years had
proved to be highly ufeftil, were to be continued, and
the only diflinetion betwixt the force now to be railed,
and the ordinary militia of the country was,, that the
force now to be ellablillied to be placed tinder re-
gular officers. For this alteration the citifies were ob-
vious and lifisfaeory. It was found that officers hay-
ingthe qualifications required by the militia laws,
comil not be obtained; and that other confiderations
made it highly delirable to have officers to difcipline
this new force who had known a good deal of aettial
fervice. As far as the fyllem of appointing officers
was micet ned, there was no fair ground of objection
to the Bill. Tie Right Hon. Gentleman next ad-
verted to the propored commutation of fervice by pay.
ing a fine of aol. He was much difpofed to doubt
die policy or the expediency of fuels a commutation.
He thought that the piiniple of the militia fy item
ought, in this a, in other inilances, to be ftriely ad.
hexed to. He was, theref re, inclined to contend,
that milers perffinal lervice was given, every indivi-
dual balloted for fhould be compelled to procure
lubllitute. At all events, if the principle of commu-
tation was to be admitted, he could not agree to its
being admitted on its prefent footing. The fine as
now propofcd to be 1-vied would fall equally on ail
ranks of the community.—Among thole orders of fo•
ciety from whom our army was to be fopplied, the
fine would operate as a compulfion of perfonal fer.
vice. Among the higher orders of fociety, no fuels
effed would be produced. Thofe unwilling to ferve,
and to whom the-payment of the fine is a matter of
no confider.aion, would, by offering a high bounty,
procure a fubflitute, and avoid all the trouble and in-
convenience which the production of one might ob•
tain. He was 'anxious either to put it out of the
power of thole ballotted for to procure relief by the
payment of a line, or, if that could not be effected, to
impofe the fine in a proportion correfponding to the
fitoation in life in which they are placed. Perfons of
rank and ability, if they would not contribute their
perfonal cervices, ought to be under the neceffity of
employing their influence in procuring able fulifti-
tires; and, if forgetful of all that they owe to them-
laves and the country, they are relneant in grant-
ing their equitable (hare in fupport of the public ho-
nour iind dignity, then it was but fair that they ought
to be made to contribute in that proportion in which
they can be made to commute their cervices. In the
Committee he trulted that this part of the fubjeet
would undergo particular investigation, and he kill
now thought it his duty to call the attention of the
Houle to it by a few obfervations on the prefent oc-
cafion. The objee of the fine, if it was at all calcu-
lated to produce any advantage, was to force thole
on whom it was levied to ufe all their exertions in
procuring fubflitutes, and act in this inflance in the
capacity of recruiting officers for the fervice. Unlefs
it was impoled in fuch a way as to produce this ef-
fee, it would he totally ufelefs, and not ufelefs alone,)
but highly inexpedient and dangerous. He had little
more to add to the obfcrvations which he had taken
the liberty of fubmitting to the Houk. He was
willing to give a Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr.,
Windham) full credit for the purity of his intentions
in oppofing the Bill. He allowed that in all that he
laid tin the fisbjee he was animated by the moll earnelt
&lire to promote the bell interefls of his country. He
knew that no one could be more defirous of taking
every Itep to refcue Europe from the calamities, the
&Irate and the mifery with which fo great a pro-
portion of it was now oppreffed. He WAS fenfible that
in no man's heart there burned a more ardent flame
of attachment to the belt interells of mankind, t r was
more dairous of making any exertions which in their
confequences might free nations now groaning un-
der the molt galling tyranny. That his Right Hon.
Friend would be the foretnoft in fupporttng thele
great objees, lie cordially admitted ; and it was not
from any difference of opinion relpeeing their im-
portance, that he was at all inclined to give the Bill
his warmei fupport. Their opinions on the ffibjee
were in imilon, but it was becaufe the Bill was cal-
culated better than any other mode which occurred
to his mind to hold out a profpee that, when.; fa-
vourable opportunity prefented krill, a large difpofe-
able force may be molt fpeedily prepared. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, after a few more obferva-
tion<, concluded by voting for the fecond reading of
the Bill.

_ ..;
The.htc aaaaa v at War. in explanation fait, that
be bad prepared a clank for elaffing the fines upon
perlons declining perfonal fervice.
Mr. WINDHAM. in an acute fpeech, impreffed on
the Howe his objeflions to the Bill. He denied that
he and thole with whom he had the honour of afting
were not fully aware of thl importance of providing
for the adequate defence and fecurity of the country.
—Unlels as the primary objeft, this was attended to,
all preparations for external annoyance were ridicu-
lout ; all hopes of dot rellorttion of the relent vio-
lated liberties of Europe ridiculous. If the danger of
the co.intry WAS curb as had been repretented; it there
was ,n immeelate call for exertion in the country, it
certainly was the duty of 41ini1cre to take effeanal
steps for placing our Hate of defence on the moll re-
fpeflable trozing. Confining himfelf to the mereviews
of the immediate defence of the country, he had to
fay that the meafute was one which he not only con-
nected as totally inefficient for the purpore of effec-
tual eefence, but one which he could not contemplate
wilingit feeling. r (anxiety approaching unto a feel-
ing of dread. He had on a former evening taken the
liberty of fuggeflikg shat w.ne his plan and views
he thought moil calculated to provide for the defence
of the country, and he had fern no real ,n why he
Ihould I-chin:pint than after the (*perch of his Right
Hon. Friend. He Aill reverted to the baneful influ-
ence %thick the adoption of tt e m:afure would have
in preventing the incrc.ine of the tegular Mniv, and
contended, that nothing but the adoption of the ma-

cure of the nature he had taken 11:e liberty of fug7er-
ting on a hunter evening, can protea c'ellruc-
Con. As the founda.iita of all miter improv:itte.as,
he was urgeitr for the abolition Fr' high tyittiri:s
given to tl e du: tog the exiittmee of which it
could not he too often repeated, that the enabOfh
moot of a regular army was imp•elild-.. He adverted
to a circumitanee, whiew he regretted to fay was too
often altogether negleo.ed, he mean: the nature and
quality of the armed force of the country. He did
not think that the manner in which the (tree propof-
ed to be railed was inch as at all pr•tmifed a trate of
efficient dilcipline. In (peaking of the cbaratrter of
the otEcers, he %%if tce! it not to be thought that he
meant to throw out any accufation against their mi-
litary (kill. Bur, he delved the liouCe to confa:r
that a confider:at:lz proportion of them were men,
who from age, from ill health, or from having re-
ceived wounds, had found it neccfrary to quit oatve
fervice, and retire on half-pay. A much fmaller
numbertrf men, well trained, and properly inured to
a military life, would have been much more effec-
tually employed at fir perilous a moment. He &t-
-d.:red at the idea of this auxiliary force being confi•
dered as the army of referve. If the People were'
taught to give up the confidence witich they ought
to repofe in thernfelvo,, and trait to loch groans of de-
fence, we were undone. Nothing but a general Ipit it
of armed refinance could effcanally enable us to veldt
invalion. The great mats of the population of the
country, afting as light troops, might be defeated by
a regular force of the enemy. Detest was, however,
under fuck eircumnances, of little conlequence, while
to the enemy i: malt ultimately prove dcflruffion.
In illunration of this part of the fuhje.ft, the Right
Hon. Gentleman particularly referred to the exer-
tions of the Royaliffs in La Vendee. After iliuffrat-
ing at confiderable length there topics, he Fat down
by voting againft the fecond reading of the Bill.
Mr. Pyre-, in explanation, laid, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had 011 fat down feerned to
have mifunderflood his argument. He limed to
think that the plan only laid a foundation for ditlant
fecurity, but was inlufficient for prefent defence.—
On the contrary, he contended, that it was a more
immediate meant of fccurity than any other that
could be devifed.

Lord CASTIARSAGH perfedly agreed with the fen.
timents which had been delivered by a flight Hon.
Gentleman oppolite to him ( Mr. Windham), when
he looked at the hollile intentions of the enemy ; but
when he looked at the means which they had in their
power for the accompli(hment of filch intention, he
confidered it as nothing but pufilladmity, he calla.
tiered it, in fad, as a meannefs unworthy the charac-
ter of the country, to contemplate that power with
any degree of apprelienfion. He could by no means
give his affent to the opinion of the Right Hon. Gen
tleman, that the poffeflion of our capital was but a
fecondary objed ; he could not even for a moment
entertain the idea that the enemy were capable of
making any impreffion on our chores. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had alluded to the inhabitants of La
Vendee, and yet, he confeffed, he was utterly at a lots
to account for the tranfition which he had made, or
by what train of reafoning he could afterwards fop
pore that the prefent force would be found inadequate
to the porpofes for which it was defigned. This, he
confeffed, appeared to him as giving a fort of colour-
ing to his arguments which could not be fupported
by any regular courfe of reafoning. He trufted in
the unanimity, the feelings, and the eftabliffied cool
and determined hravery.of the country, not only that
they would manfully defend their invaluable free con-
ftitution, which was the admiration and the envy of
the world, but that they would refill any attempt to
deprive them of that bleffing in fuch amanneras would
utterly and completely emit, the invaders of our hap-
py land, andhold out Inch an example as woulddetet
others in future ages from entertaining the mad idea
of making any imprefrion on a country fo long pre
eminently dillinguiflied for the bravery and freedomnf
its inhabitants. He °Nettled in the ttrongeft manner
to the great preference which the Right Hon.-Gen-
tleman wilbed to give to the regular army ;he thought
that by too firiet an attention to that defcription of
force, we would either go beyond the kill terms of
our financial policy in times of peace, or that we
would find ourfelves too weak at the outlet of a war.
The Right Hon. Gentleman had delivered a jult eu-
logium on our militia force, as a contlitutional body;
but then he had expreffed fomethinl like a defire
that they Ihould he limited to 30,000 ; that was by
no means adequate to the intreafed population of the
country. Underthe prefent circumftances of thecoun-
try,and conlideringthat the amount of themilitia force
we had in thee iflands !aft war was I to,ooo,he trufted
the Houk would agree with him in laying that, by
granting an addition of 50,000 to the 9t0,000 which
had been already voted by Parliament, they would
not go too far. It was the defire of many, that the
militia fhould be diipnfahle to any place within the
United Kingdom; that dcfideratum was accomplifh-
ed by the prefent Bill, as for as relpeded the force
which it propoled to mile. Another difficulty, the
officering of the militia, was frequently the object of
ditentlion; that was in a great meafure removed by
the provifions of the prefent Bill, as far as regarded
the force railed by it ohe officers for that force might
poffefs either of the two qualifications, a confiderible
flake in the country, or that of haring ferved many
years in the regular military fervice of the Crown. ac-
cording to the rank which they were to hold. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, in his eagernefs to defend
the fervice of the line, had teemed to have loft all
talk for the fervice nr merits of any ether dais of our
military force:. He fhould confider, however, the
great number of the militia than had been dills:ended
at the conclulion of our tre.uy of peace, and recoiled
that they were officered by many perfons of tl-e greatelt
retpcdability, both for charader and military talent,
and that many of them would in fad be glad of the
opportunity which the prefent meafure afforded
them of returning the rank which they formerly held
in his hiajefly's fervice, and no doubt they would be
found eminently tileful in the defenceof their country,
it ever there fhould he occafto3 to bring their talent
into action; he had no doubt that they would be found
as efficient as any body made up according to the
Right Hon. Gentleman's prelcs iption for making fol.
d.et s. It had been fuppofed that, unkfs the forces of
the line polfelfed a monopoly of the recruiting market.
they could not hope for any fuccefs in filling up their
ranks. Experience had confiderably tended to weaken
the force oh the Right Hon. Gentleman's reafoning ;
for, at a time when we were raiGns Us: fupplemer-

tary, and
we teCI Iltilt..!f,r our regular army than at a
time v her they hail 'he matkct tho7:r
Cf*dni,l!• ever). pint (If vier hr I).liLvcd :,1141
triacti .h.,t the lio•r:.!at,d ti.e Cemrtr. on4d ;4.gtee
with him, Ia pc; the neceffity 01 immediately
giviint. ciitEl to thi • ;•;.in, and tun EtT,:ill.rne would
pot thep v.h:le an enemy had ope-d) pt:bdtelt•ti
thre :t. J2.l;llit nrr Lotv.try.
We .DRAM, In explanation, Iti3," if we cannot
hive thflideat force completely rewelAr, it may be
tif!:111 futtic,.-.::• force compl
i• the p illii:irated by reference
to La Vend, e."

Sir Er %F. CO TS fimportecl the merif.re, art! ob.
ferved that, when it was the intention t f the enemy
to annihilate his Nlajt tty's Co.:eminent and robjii,., ate
tiie United Kint,dorn, he wa. contideut th it E:nlith-
men would nGtliettate to thew the First Coldttl ..nd
the IVor:d what Eni;litlimen could atchiefe in Inch a
gi ohm.; canine.
Dr. LAUsince, in a frech , f confiderab'te length
lupporacd the politions of Pitt. Windham. He fail,
the itteAst: it force if La Vend.:e was lit poweifttl,
that he could state fi.rn the bell authority, that more
Reptihlt,:ans h id been t!...:1r0y:...i by RoyaliiC there,
t.. 111 by Al the cornhined armies. The pte'ent f n-,:e
h.t. c infidered wholly inadequate to the end in view.
rite men were to be locked 1.1) i;i thc country, nailed
like hale metal to the counter, witli,ut being able to
at tdefolly for il:e public. With rtfpett to mcn
grim; into regimen's of the line ;—il they tiid do, it
would be only a proof that they liked not the fo vice
they were in ; and, therefore, no great dependence
could be placed on that force. The Learned Gentlit
man concluded with reading a letter, partly wa itten
and partly dilated, by the late Mr. liurke in his laff
moments. The'etter hated," that he had taken the rp-
psrt unity of the firfl relaxation which a mind °pint Bed
with various caufesof affliaion could find,to op efshis
many fenfttions at thenewand flrange thingsesery day
palling before his eyes in the political world. He
had lived to fee new views, new plans, new prin-
ciples. new men, nay almol a new fpecies of mcn.
If they who lived 4o years before had fliddenly re-
vifited this world how much would they have flood
afinnifhed to fee an army of near 2f10,000 men, al-
moll totally unemployed in any great work of offence
againft the enemy ? What if they law goo men of
war almoft kept upon the fame limited and confined
fyfiem ? What, if they raw thee Wands, containing
all there troops, with all the means of annoyance,
connected, before an inferior force, into a fen of
garrifoned towns, without daring fcarcely to make '
a tingle filly againfk their barbarous befiegers! He
fhould return to this great fubjed again, if he ever
C. far recovered his health and ftrength, but of this :
he then defpaired ; but the fulijed was, indeed:
above al bodily confideratl:lls. He had not bunted
after what was called popularity, generally to be
purchafed by Itcrificing truth. Only on ono ine;fiim
did he ever recoiled it as his object, and of thofe two '
he then feverely repented. But at the time he now ,
wrote, it mattered little to, him whetheithe breath of :
flattery blew hot or co'd. 'I he in.ereft of the country
called him to (peak freely ; a country dear to him ;
from his caviled recolleCtion to his final exit from this
tranfient nate."
The CHAWCILLOR of the Exc it scuts a fad; Aar
notwithllanding the very high authority of that namet
which was fubfcribed to the letter jail now read by
the Learned Gentleman, it was very loon afterwards
proved, that from the fupplementary militia we de. 1
rived thole means of exertion by which this country
derived, in India and elfewhere, thole advantages '
which had added fo much to its glory aid its inteeetts.
He did not by any means intend to enter at length
into the fubjeA of the various arguments ofed by the :
Right Hon. Gentleman. but he wilhed the Houfe to i
underhand dininalv the poii.t at Wile between hint
and his Majelly's Siniflers. This was the number
of men to be obtained by this means, without pro.
judice to the recruiting the regular army. An Hob,
Gentleman, who had spoken early in the debates bad
raid, that he would have been content with 30,600,
in order not to impede the railing recruits for the re-
gular army ; but this was really a vague formife. for '
it had been inconteftibly lhesrn by his Right Hon.
Ft iend, that the provers of the recruiting fervice was
nearly as great during the 'all three months as ever
it was at any former period. What, therefore, was
the dednlion to be drawn from the fpeech of the
Right Hon. Gentleman ? No other than this' that it
called on Government to put out of their hands at 1
fuch a critical conjuncture as' this, the bell means 1
they had of providing for the defence and fecurity l
of the country ; for it was a fad well eflablifited,
that when the Miiitia was kept up at its largelt
amount, there never was a period in which men
could be railed jn greater numbers; and, on the con- '
trary, when 25,000 militia were sliftlandest in Ireland,
it had not the effed of recruiting to any eon& !
derable degree the regular army ; which is a very
fining proof that they do not interfere with each other.
The Houfehad been advi fed by die Right Hon. Gentle-
man,and the Hon. Memberwholollowed him,torejed
the meafure; and the reafonforthis extraordinary two-
ceeding was, that there was no other means nffaving
the country,but by refortirg to compolfot y means. He
allured the Houfe, that no man in this country wee
willing, or could be willing to go farther than he I
would for its defence and protedion, but he could not
agree that men, who were to be called on for the de-
fence of this country, (bould be forced to ferve in any f
part of the !sonde globe, where their fetvices might I
be required—ruch a proceeding, he thought, could
not lid to produce what the Right.. Hon. Gentleman
lays the pref.= metallic will moil afluredly produce,
univerfal dircontent and averfion. There was at pre. •
Tent in the kingdom a larger regular force than had
ever been at the commencement of any se it ; the mss
litia amounted to go,ooo men, to tilde lie propofed
to add go,ooo ; betides theft there was a very large
and molt relpeetable body of Yeomanry, which was .
of feven or eight years ttaudibg, and to all theft was
to be added the Volunteer Corps. When he ret:Se4
on all Olen: conflitutional means of defence, he cools
not, without abhorrence, think of recurring to the
unheard of mean.--the a!rominable pi ircipls in •
fire Covet nntent—of recurring to the mealure of ti
conferipti•in, and thereby putting this free country co
the fame lamentable footing with that which misgo-
verned by the execrable tyrant, whofe ambitions view
and continually 'created agsteibons, had coin
US to have occali.- oto recur to the means by .
the prelim Bill. The Right Hog. Ceptlenditi d frit
,d
pru

L

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