Star.
London, England, 1819-04-02 00:00:00

SOUTH AMERICA.

Sir WILLIAM DE CRESPIGNY, seeing Lord
Castlereagh in his place, wished to learn from some
of his Majesty's Ministers, whether they gave any
countenance to the equipment and hire of certain
ships which had been chartered for the service of the
Government of Spain? If Government had endea-
voured to prevent such a contract, it would have
been much more consonant to true policy, as he had
rod information for saying, that a Deputation from
South America was about to be sent, or on its way,
to England, in order to arrange for completely
throwing open to this country the whole trade of
South Aineriea—(hear,hear.)—He hoped,', therefore,
that the People of South America would have no
caltse for considering the British Government hostile
to their views. The ships of which he complained
were not only British ships, but chartered by British
subjects, commanded by British Captains, and navi-
gated by British seamen ; and, unless cur Govern-
ment disclaimed the contract, it might be construed
against a pacific disposition on our part.
Lord CASTLEREAGH believed that certain ships
had been chartered from this country for the service
of Spain ; but he positively denied that the measure
had received the smallest countenance from our Go-
ventment. It was, he understood, merely a mercan-
tile operation ; and the persons who had thus hazard-
ed their property did so at their own peril. The
general instructiQns given to all British subjec.s ad-
venturing in South America, had been, to tike care
to conduct themselves pacifically.—(Hear, hear.)
The conversation then ended.
SCOTTItiII ECROUCIZS.

General Sir R. FERGUSSON, after a few observa-
tions in vindication of the prayer of the Petition
which he then held in his hands, for a reform of the
internal government of the Scottish Boroughs, beg.
ged leave to present it. The Petitioners were re-
spsctable inhabitants of *Dunfermline, who, having
the interest and indLiamdLi.c,.! of their country at
heart, prayed that they might he relea,ed from the
despotism under which they laboured 1..; a self-elect-
ed junto of Magistrates, and that all the iniribitants
of the Boroughs of Scotland might have their privi-
leges as British subjects.
fhe Petition was received, read, and Ordered to
lie or. the table.
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON held in his
hand two Petitions, the prayers of which were of the
same tendency. The first was from the Royal Cor-
poration of Suirons of Edinburgh, stating the many
rierance* which they, as well as their fellow-sub-
jects of Scotland, expetienced by the despotism of
the self-elected Magistrates. The system which had
been too long endured had deprived the Burgesses
of their dearest rights and liberties. The self-elected
Junto lavished away the public money, and consum-
ed all the Borough revenues, without any responsi-
blity to their fellow-subjects. They were their own
Treasurers and their own Auditors ; and if any com-
plaints were made against their public conduct, the
patties aggrieved could obtain no redress. They
considered the public monks as their own private
property—with this difference,. that they were la-
vishly prodigal of the fornier while the latter was
consequently much accumulated. The Petitioners
had been informed that the private property of the
Magistrates was liable for any deficiencies. But they
begged that the House would take their grievances
into its serious consideration, and grant them such
relief as in its wisdom should seem fit.—The Petition
was of considerablilength, and appeared to be a
wtll-written dissertation on the subject.
The Petition from the Borough of .I.beweleen to
the same effect was also presented.
Both Petitions were *cad, and ordered to lie on the
table. They were also ordered to be printed .
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON, before he en-
tered fully
.into the subject of his intended notion, '
thought it incumbent upon him to apologize to the
House fur the time which he would .necessarily oc-
cupy. He was obliged to go into a wide field of
particulars ; but he honed that the account which he
was about to give of his investigation, would meet
with the induli,,cnce and approbation of/the House.
A reform of the internal government of the Scottish'
Boroughs was of the greatest importance, not only
to Scotland, but to the people of England also, in-
terested in the welfare and happiness of their fellow.
subjects. His Lordship remarked, that it was ne—
cessary for him to say what was meant and what was
rot meant by the reform of the Scottish Boroughs.
It had no connection with a Reform in Parliament,
end thereflre the advocates against that measure
would be under no apprehensions or fears. The in-
habitants of every borough or town in Scotland were
under the despotism of the Magistrates, and liable
to many inconveniencies and grievances hitherto un-
Jcnoten in England. The Magistrates or Corporation
of Aberdeen, as a public body, had been so prodi-
gal of the-revenues of the borough, that they were
*next to a state of bankruptcy, if not actually so. la
order that the Members for-England and Ireland
might understand the question, it was requisite for
his Lordship to mention, that, as the Petitions had
represented, the Magistrates of all the boroughs in
Scotland were a self-elected junto ; that they re-
mained in office one year; that they appointed their ;

successors ; and that these
Th attention agf ain
te-selfap-
-
pointed the former party.. us doe set o men,
elected, had been known to govenifour boroughs
for twenty or thirty years, and leave what they con-
sidered their rights or ropet/, through this me-
dium, to theirsons or helm These self-elected Ma-
gistrates, or junta, were paramount to every au-
thority. Whatever trespass they committed, or what-
ever injury, so far as regarded their natural rights,
or the expenditure of their revenues, the public could
obtain no redress. If any misunderstanding took place
among themselees,' which was very rare, as they
were too much interested in the public spoils, a re-
ference was made to the Court of Session, who al-
ways determined in favour of the same rotten sys-
tem !..(Hear, hear.)--The case of Aberdeen was too
notorious to ge passed over with criminal indifference.
Complaints had been made against the system by se-
veral of their constituent. members. A reference was
made to the Court of Session, and its decision was,
as usual, in favour of the borough system—(Hear.)
But his Lordship hoped that Parliament would re-
move' these grievances, and afford the people of
Scotland the enjoyment of their rights and privi-
leges. The next step had been to petition the King
for the renovation of the regular Magistrates, in con-
sequence of which a Crown Warrant had been is-
sued, appointing the old Magistrates to elect the
new, thus virtually annihilating the verdict of the
Court of Session. The Petitions had been referred
to the Law Officers of the Crown, who therefore
must have given advice inconsistent, either with the
state of the case, or the interest; which they were
called upon to protect. He should move for the prof
duction of the papers which had been laid before the
Privy Council and the Law Officers of the Crown,
when the latter had adrisel the issuing of the war-
rant of which he complained. This was one of the
results of the system of fraud. injustice, and iniquity
which prevailed in the administration of Scotch bo-
roughs. This was not the first application which had
been made for an inquiry into the subject. Thirty
years ago it had been referreu to a Committee, who
had reported that the abuses complained of did
exist; but the breaking out of the war, and the pre.
valence of an influence which ruled with imperious
sway, had prevented any redress from being ob-
tained. The burgesses of Aberdeen had recorded it
as their opinion. in their Petitions, that it was impos-
sible to remove .buses unless the whole system should
be changed. Yet in defiance of that declaration, the
Noble Lord opposite (the Lord Advocate of Scotland)
had advised the granting of a new warrant, putting
the whole authority into the hands of the authors of
those vbry abuses!—(hear, hear)—The system had
broken up at Aberdeen through its own rottenness.
It was hut a few months since that borough had de-
clared itself bankrupt for I:9.80,000. At the last
election the funds had been found deficient by no less
a sum than £2,500 to pay the mere interest of the
debt. This had been going on for twenty years. A
large portion of the debt itself, to the amount of
£37,000, consisted of sums borrowed for the pay-
ment of its interest. It was an annual custom in the
borough to call a head meeting to hear the public ac-
counts stated, yet, at these meetings rot a single
shilling had ever been mentiored of the debt of
C 230,000! It had come ont of a sudden, and the
burgesses had then fo,:od that they had been deluded
for twenty years by the men who hal been entrusted
with the adininistraticir of the burgh, and whom the
Noble Lord seemed solicitous to retain—!,Hear, hear.)
also :iscertained another Inct, oni authority
which et a )1(d him to pledge his Jwn; it was this—
out of that debt of C 230,001, so contracted and so
concealed, a great portion bad been contracted by
forged and fine minutes !—Wear, hear, hear)—He
should like to hear the Learned Lord deny this--
I(liter, hear).—To give this town to this system was
delivering up between thirty and forty thousand in-
habitants to military execution—it was giving a
rade blanche to injustice, fraud, and oppression. He
did aver, on authority which was not likely to be
contradicted, that a great part of this debt was con-
tracted or. false and forged minutes. Because they
could not prevail on all the Junto, to. enter into all
these measures, sometimes a few got together for the
purpose of committing these depredations on the
public. He would now read what were the senti-
ments of the Magistrates themselves, when they went
out of office. If he hid no other authority than this,
he would say, that his Majesty's Ministers had done
what was injurious to the country, and disgraceful
to themselves—(Hear, hear).—ln 1817, when the
system dissolved by its own rottenness, of the nine-
teen persons elected, only six would accept of the
office. So obnoxious had the system become, that
the Magistrates who went out thought proper, whe-
ther from compunction or hypocrisy, he could not
tell—(heart—to put on record this Proclamation :
COUNC.III. CHANSER, ADVIDEEN, SErT. 19, 1817.

" Ir. justice to themselves, however, they are desirous to place
upon record their sentiments and opinioes, in reference to son:e
of the various topics aming out of the embarrassments of the
City Treasury.
" This has become the more necessary, from their having dis-
covered, that, in their efforts for the restormier of public confi-
dence, their motives have been misconstrued and perverted, and
their proposals and plans received with a degree of prejudice and
distrust, which they will be bold enough to say, their personal
and private characters were sufficient to invalidate ar.d disprove.
De this as it may, they are aware, that the sincerity of their in-
tentions can be known but by few, and may be deubted by
many and, therefore, they here reiterate their decided opinion,
that the preseut mode of Election of the town Council, and ma-
nagement of the town's affairs, are radically defective and im-
provident, tending to give to any individual or patty, who may
be sa inclined, an e::cessive and unnatural preponderance ; and
to foster and entourage a system of concealment, under which
the most upright and best intentioned Magistrates may not be
able to acquire that thorough knowledge of the situation. of the
Burgh, which is requisite for the due administration of its affairs.
The Subscribers are, therefore, of opinlon, that some change
ought to be effected in the mariner of electing the Council, and
an effectual controutglven to the Citizens ever the enpeuditure
of the Town's Office-bearers. (Signed)

" ALEX. MAZZA OATO: NAVD.N D. CIIALNEIRs
ALEX. DONCAN 341. mAna...v :A.l. CAT TLY
ALEX. DD.OWW P. TAYLO:t DOW:. WALKED
434011,3 MLitt ALEX. EDIPSON aoszrom
CHALLIS ummure awo.Tuownom WK. macsinx."
WILLIAM! LEAD ALEX. OALW
Whet these Gendernen say that it encouraged a sys-
tem of concealment, they alluded to the part, of the
debt contracted on false and fabricated minutes,
though he dared to say some of the gentlemen who
signed the Minute were ignorant themselves of that
circumstance.--The Honourable Member then com-
pared the course adopted towards Aberdeen with
that pursued towards the Borough of Montrose,
which had been di:franchised and a pollArarrant
granted; whilst at Aberdeen thr election eine* Ma-

replaeedknaw theiglrteas"4 hands 4
gistratriehwaidshbeertotiie ofdifference eo! d
*hick prevailed between those two cases ? In conse-
quence of the disfranchisement of Aberdeen and the
delay in ranting a warrant,
that borough was at
present without any MeMber in that House. Two
other Scotch boroughs, (Edinburgh and Inverness,)
were in the same situation. [Here Mr. W. DUNDAS
said that he was Member for Edinburgh.] Then the
Honourable Gentleman had been elected since the
disfranchisement of that borough, and was sitting in
the House without electors—(Laughter). He did
not mean to apply every thing he had said to every
borough in Scotland, but he contended, that if any
were better governed, it was not because the system
was improved, but because the individuals were more
respectable. Since the new warrant for Aberdeen
two occurrences had taken place which had revived
the anxiety and discord which had prevailed through-
out the town under the former Magistrates. The
two persons who had joined in the application to the
Court of Session for the disfranchisement of the bo-
rough, were in the enjoyment of pensions from the
public funds in the right of being Guild.burgesscs.
But no sooner were the new Magistrates appointed
than they avenged the cause of the old, and deprived
those two individuals of their pensions. The other
case was this :—The Provost had called a meeting of
the heritors, subsequently to which he declared that
they had authorized a new assessment. When this
assertion was publicly made another meeting was
called by some Gentlemen who had been present at
the former one, who declared publicly, and signed
their names to their assertion, that at the meeting in
question, the proposition of an assessment had not
been agreed to, or even brought forward. Now whe-
ther the Provost of Aberdeen had been guilty of a
deliberate falsehood he did not mean to discuss, but
the occurrence would shew the spirit which reigned
in the town. He apologized for having thus long
troubled the House, but he had been induced to do so
by the manner in which the question had been treated
by the Ministerial side of the House. He would now
put it to them, whether they would give their sanc-
tion to a system founded in fraud, iniquity, and in-
salt—which he was convinced no twelve men chosen,
+'com the side of the House opposite to him would, if
acting as jurymen, undertake to support? lie would
put it to them, not as Ministers or Members of Par-
liament, but as men, whether they would wish to
perpetuate that scourge to Scetjand ? The produc-
tion of the papers which he nosy moved for would
imply no censure on the Ministers. There was one
of the papers before the Privy Council, which would
be the last he should move for ; Viz. the Opinion of
the Law Officers of the Crown. The opinion which
he had been able to form by conversation with the
ablest Counsel was, that the decision the Law
Officers was illegal. It was doubtful at least—for
out of 30 cases in which the old Councils had ex-
pired, in 24 poll-warrants had been granted, and in
six, warrants had been issued to the old Councils.
Out of the six in only one had a warrant been issued,
after all the preliminary steps as in the present case,
and in no one case in all circumstances like that of
Aberdeen. AVhether he should move for this paper,
lie should reserve to himself the power of considering,
as he did not wish to narrow the case to the legal
question. The three other papers were—]. The Wai -
rant itself. 3. The Petitions in the case. 3. The
Precedents on which the proceeding was founded.
Tice Noble Lord then concluded by moving an Ad-
dress to the Prince Regent, for a Copy of the War-
rant of the Crown, for the Election of Alagistrates for
the Burgh of Aberdeen in 1818—(Much cheering-fol-
lowed the A'oble Lord's Speech).
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND, hav-
ing been so personally alluded to by the Noble Lord,
though surrounded by abler colleagues than himself,
should take the 'first opportunity of meeting the
charge of that Noble Lord. He felt no disposition
on the ground of legality, of expediency, or discre-
tion, to shrink from the responsibility which was laid
upon his shoulders. He contended, that the persons
interested to set the warrant aside had a legal redress
by the law of Scotland. He therefore trusted that
Parliament would not interfere to judge the ques-
tion, but would leave it to the Courts of Law to de-
termine the point of its legality. If it were deemed
illegal, it would then be time to visit the offence on
those who had advised the measure. He maintained
that however the Noble Lord might have disclaimed
any connexion of the subject with Parliamentary Re-
form, he had completely disproved his own assertions
by the generality of the charge which he had made
against the whole Borough System of Scotland ; for
if the Constitution of those Boroughs was altered, a
new set of electors would be appointed. He should
not enter into the charges respecting the financial
operations of the Aberdeen Magistrates, as there was
an Honourable Gentleman behind him more able to
prove the allegations of the Noble Lord were un-
founded. Ile should only say, that it had never been
asserted that there had been any private peculation
on the part of those Magistrates. It had never been
denied that the expenditure had been occasioned by
their public spirit, which had led them to obtain
many Acts of Parliament which the circumstances
of the country had afterwards prevented them from
carrying into execution. With respect to forged mi-
nutes, that allegation had never before been brought
against the Magistrates. If it were the case, any man
who had been induced to lend his money under false
pretences might bring his action against them for
the recovery of his debt. He contended that the No-
ble Lord had wrongly applied the word disfranchise-
ment, when he had alluded to the late occurrences
at Aberdeen, on account of which the new warrant
had been issued. Aberdeen had not been disfran-
chised, and the election had been set. aside by the
Court of Session on a totally different ground. It was
required that forty Members of the Corporation
should be present at the election ; but in case of the
'absence oieny one, the Council had, a right to pro-
ceed with the election, on replacing him by any other
individual who possessed the same qualifications as
filled. In the election of
the petson whose posrlie
1816, a Man of the name of Rae, Whothad the repu-
tation of being a Burgess, had been employed as
' proxy for another ; he could not, however, produce
his burgess-ticket, or prove that be had cvcr been
one, arid on that ground alone the Court of Session'
had set aside the election.- This was no offence on
the part of the Magiitiges, hurt venial mistake,'
Anatheieforeawarraiitiar ahotherefeeilOisras issued.'
in the ease of the DotinieVof Montrdie;ihett"Was

wide different.. For all the Magistrate,
rough had united in committing an act
platy, by balloting for the choice of th
practice which had been declared '
as
had been ground
feren Charles l
bee coursels
rough. He then entered into an er
tient Statutes, to prove that by the
right of election was vested in the
selves, and the Craft, or Livery Corepanies,
Act had been represented as closinry— -
Burghs, whilst, on the contrary, it',
open in a great degree, and pry:io
mon Council should be elerval yea,
argument clear, he was obliged to
very dry details, for which he
Bence of the House. At the time of
it was stated that the grievances
should be redressed. But the mode
were to be redressed was not by aF
tute of 1469, but by passing an Act
passed in the reign of James H. whi
Royal Burghs. But no general inc.
or proposed, to condemn the syster,
the law of 1469, which was now cons
tendency of the Act then passed w-
contrary character. At the time
complaint was made of the Act.
edi',;try jurkdictions in Scotland w
consequence of the Rebellion of 17a
way uttered against the Act of 1469
to the period of 1769. But Burgh
sent to the winds, and Parliamentary
the prevailing topic. Two years age
Reform became again the popular
the petitioners for Burgh Reform tl
a Reform in Parliareent—Weer, he
liamentary Reform not being so agr
persons as in 1793, the subjects v
Burgh Reform was puthed. forty:;
so much on the law, he should
practice of the cases. Since 17:4;1„
had occurred of applications to Go ern
Set. In every one of these twelve cn,
had been decided not by the poll le
of the Burgh. It was on the case of
cart that it was deterniMed an elect'
place by poll, if there was not an
pea), qu.dified to elect their ElliCeS,
case there was a Council, then there
all the-;e twelve cases, the warrant
upon the Burgesses, but upon the Old
Burgh. These instances were therefore
the case of Aberdeen ; and to re,
were not so, was a cor.linuatiOn of
lusion which had been so industru
upon this question (Hear.) It was an
the old writers of 1469 say who
meant upon this subject—Vicar,
to administer a modelate reform to
much as any man could do ; afid he
best method of administering it wan
ring their accounts to certain uninterested
auditors. He should therefore give
of a motion to that effect, in order
might hereafter be discussed as fay
ance de,.erved. With regard to the
had presented so many l'eLitions to
this subject, he must be allowed to
vation, and it was this—that so far .
most respectable part of the different
they inhabited, they were distinctly
the reverse.—(Loud laughter, and ,
front the Opposition Benches, re-cchoed
from the Ministerial side of the How
ed Lord then took an opportunity
high compliments to the judicial Aut
land, and defended, in very strong
duct of the Council of Aberdeen, who
no slight commendation from a man'
rity," continued he, " with all due
Noble Lord and myself, is far superior
individual to whom he alluded had
his last Circuit, to some of the Burgesses
that the best way to reconcile ad
would be to sink all discussion—that
of Aberdeen was most respectable—and
allowed to perform their duties with:
the town of Aberdeen would soon recover
prosperity. The Judge found it his
tleman and a Judge, to say so; and
that such an opinion, from such a quarter
be considered as high testimony in
Magistracy. The Learned Lord again
for the length at which he had entered '
cession ; he had not intended to have gone
prolixity of detail, if the Noble Lord .
not held him up to public ridicule—(hear,
denounced the which he had
the House en a prior occasion as
injurious.—( Laughter from the Opposition
accompanied with loud and reiterated
The Noble Lord had uttered those dens
cause the Bill neither suited the views
Lord himself, nor of the party of Refo.
he was attached.—( Repetition of theformer
laughter.)—He should not have expressed
with such confidence on the subject,
word which he had used been strict •
law as all the ingenuity of the Hon. Gentlemen
site could neither gainsay nor contradi-
Mr. HUME contended, that the Learned
not dared to grapple fairly with any '
ments used by the Noble Lord, but had
to elude, and to misstate such parts
felt himself unable to controvert. The
had stated as an objection to the Noble
sition, that it was likely to create a
tary influence; for his own part, he
whether it would or not, but he certain!.
that no harm could possibly accrue even
was willing to follow the Lord Advocate
through his speech, in the same
Learned Gentleman had followed the
preceded him; and he must therefore
remark in the first place, that the M
entirely left out of his consideration
question, which was so closely connect
burgh system. Such was the rottenness
tem, that the funds placed in the luta
for the use of these burghs, were
n 'sconducted and misapplied. He
burgh of Aberdeen as an instance.
igrt,*when the notable resolution now
was signed—a resolution which, even
connected with airy subsequent event!

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istrate; (..1 that p roused th
n act of -
Tress 1, -,,
burgh as
of their succe,s his sism
ed illegal as e„. tied in
co
nd on which a - f641/°° '
towards that t. bour fill
eaamination of . tent of tl
of Pa
e Act of 1469, ~ Act
..r
Magistrates . riviti ul•
Companies. imn this
sing up the tm,
sat—, an
: had thrtrrn :.:- ore,' at
;led that the C. this burg
trir• To make: *84°2,1
i through go . estimate-
quested the in 4 These Est
of the Reyole.: 0 they e
es of Cne PT. • sanction c
ode in whirl: .: ti ?Arlie
abolishing the' 00 exec'
ct to repeal r..,.: pt the Pt
•hich oppresst: Eargh, tl
leasure was pis, for the CI
,tern establi :-.er.' The Act
mr.plained of. 7 eir oper
t: as decidrdl7 c IA not a
of the Ur.i;,..p., Ore. F
In 1717, 1,..':•.en r fiber
were alvalithed ' taany of t
46, not a shin: if he Of
69. This vat .. mot, after
i Reform was ~ meeting
try Reform beet.. though tl
v., Parliamen:z. 'acted '
tr sult:ezt, and :- that it h
then petitioned is ,hat for s
ker:r .1) Now F been cart
b' ~,eeti- to • - to have c
-
were inverted, r in his pm
'rd. Having : been a f
now advert to .. had been
, twelve ins-a: because 1
eernment fora toiug on
cases, the elec.% to suspic
but by the Ur over the
if the iluro13h of D find that
!lion ought to:::, reality hi
L Old Council p., vas hoc
ssors ; but that • should b
re was no poll. ' would be
was not bestow ideratioi
Old Council of . which he
efore consonant by a Get
represent that th. was not
' the system of • All that
riously propagat. stances c
al attempt to ma • had con
tat they had rev. was due
.•.r.,:r).--He wish able bast
u these Burghs, . pealed I
re [IIOW-11[ t.".2[t . 71,'t be 11
could be by ref: ci trust
:et-es:ed person:, . ibeir ju
notice to.mor-,.. whe...eW
7 that the matt: Adverti
ugly as its intpr'r ben, th
he 'Burgesses wi: ttercise
the House tape &ler tl
D make one obey e tut/
ar from being [7: are Cat
rent towns whir' why a
17 and complete! was ref
rl cries of Her I:o2[ent
loed for some !i• meat al
us..)—The Lear: ieg a w
of paying son: Coanci
uthorities at .S.:tt 41 we
e ele lag
receivethec o.
.-istena
r:ey h
e deference to th. tarry 1
nor to ours." Ti expose
inlit "whose hah'do, se auth
3 said, whilst at a case
esses of Aberdeer. for a
their differences had le;
at the Magistracl tomer
-and, if they we:e .,
bout molestation, %%.e di
ecover its ancient it %:b
s duty, as a Ge' They
md he conceived electic
porter, ought to thebu:
in favour of the ~- acir
again apologised 110 yl
ered into the cis had p 4
~..
ye gone into such tile 1-
)rd opposite had port a
ihear, hear)—and cases
had submitted to tebelh
:ose tr,
slityion absurdpa and
'lees ;
i cries of Hear ! ) dy thi
lenunciations, be• tern
iews of the Noble Lett
poghtihes,
formers to whom etper
dormer cries, and vie c
xpressed himself u 'aid
t, had not every duet
t haw, and such Lear;
Gentlemen oppo- a Poi
edict:— .;
.e s;
,earned
condi
any of the argil- Mom
had endeavoured set a
is of them as be that
he Learned Lora lad
ble Lord's prof; c'
..c• exit
(Heor.)
had
Lord
new Parliam -air
. • .
Ile could not say ~..t. !
tainly could say :::-.....;
:wen if it did. He az:: ,
.:
irate step by rte? .. e t
manner as' t•l'. seal
lie Speaker, wtq r:ee
ire be allowed 0 Itiria
Noble Lord hail l'e..il
ion the finnanc:i rtivo
,nnected with CI •..-i;
mess of that $y e, irr,
sands of trustees, fair
very
feeque 1;0.. I
would take tLI e
Plai,
In Serembe, j' fae
ow on their tug ar,t.h
m if it were gt ~,,--:,
ts., ought
O ha'l
t...
. ,

attention of Parliament—the debt of the
by the trustees to be £230,000. Of
was a real debt, and had been in-
tilding of some new street ; the other
1m lent to improve the port and bar-
, This debt, according to the state-
Learned Lord, had been created by an
- and by and with the consent and
burgesses. He wished, however, to ex-
estance, which had been rather mis-
s shew the House how far the system of
concealment had been carried on within
alone—( Hear.) In the year 1800, the
ished to erect two new streets, and
:pense of building them at £30,000.
they laid before the Burgesses, and
appear extravagant, obtained the
irgesscs to their obtaining an Act
enable them to carry their scheme
They obtained an Act of Parliament
ender which the Magistrates of the
iber for the Burgh, and the Member
were appointed Managing Trustees.
limit that they should not commence
they had collected 1:20,000 ; and
them to borrow one single sixpence
I ask the Honourable Member for
i'erdeen, whom he rejoiced to see in his place, bow
„nv of the meetings under this Act he had attended?
•D; (Mr. Home) was rightly; informed, there had
after the first Quarterly Meeting, been one full
; and yet a large debt had been contracted,
- the particulars under which it had been con-
. were all unknown, except the naked fact,
it had been contracted by the Treasurer: so
seventeen years a system of concealment had
on, which it would have been impossible
;e carried on under any other system. He had
possession a letter from a Gentleman who had
a Member of the Council in 1811 ; but who
• turned out of it subsequently to that period,
he had suspected that every thing was not
right, and because he had dared to express
cions. This Gentlemen one day, on turning
Minutes of the Council, was surprised to
;cat lie had been put down as present, when in
hu was absent, at a Meeting when £lO,OOO
Ved by the Council. If a Committee
be appointed, and he hoped that a Committee
be appointed—(Hear, hear),—to take into con-
e the system of the Royal Burghs, the facts.
he had just detailed to them would be proved
,aleman who, because he was an honest man,
A allowed to remain a Member of the Council.
that was known of this loan, and the circum-
;lea with it, was, that the Magistrates
consented to it. The whole debt of £230,000
to 510 creditors, of which 32 were charit.
institutions. The money thus borrowed and ex-
• - the he was happy to say, would
as the management of it was in the hand;
and there was a prospect that through
:ions care for a few years there might be
lal to pay the debt—(hear, hear, hear).
to the conduct of the Magistrates of Aber-
Honourable Gentleman said, that they had
most improperly their authority already
new set of the burgh by interfering with
fund:. Considering what the conduct of
had been, he asked the Learned Lord,
election, which was given to Montrose.
,used to Aberdeen? The Learned Lord had
, thu• gross misconduct, or misnianagoi
could justify the Privy Council in grant-
ee for the poll election, and depriving the
the sight they previously exercised. ha
he conduct of thc Aberdeen Magistrates, fox.
' years, during which they had acted on a
secrecy and concealmeht,—during which
occasioned great distress,—during which,
those who hid a right to allowances were
)y them to neglect and want,—present such
misconduct or mismanagement, as called,
.ivation of that power of self-election which
such mischiefs.? What had Montrose done
fate horn which Aberdeen had been saved?
Magistrates chose to elect by ballot. This
rocs illegality, the unpardonable misconduct
they- had been guilty—(Loud cheering).
used a few white and black balls at their
and this was the monstrous crime for which
was thrown open to poll election—(A laugh).
rad not occurred a single in stance for the last
a'rs, in which a burgh whose set had been lost
'ioned for a poll election, and had been refused.
aourable Geuticman stated some facts in sup•
xis assertion, and particularly alluded to the
Montrose and Brechin at the time of the last
• Why then did not Ministers in the exer-
soir.el discretion ',errant the Citizens of Aber-
Election ? The case of Montrose, which
means had been freed from their influence,
them.—(Hear.) They saw they were losing
hence, aid therefore would not repeat the
lent—Wear.) He could not here pass/.
curs:stance which came to his hearing,
manifested a strange inconsistency in the cone
the Learned Lord. By the advice of that
. Lord, ....lonrrose had obtained a warrant for
Election ; but when Aberdeen came to be in
tme situation as Montrose, shewing a gross MIS.
On the part of the Magistrates, of which
t'ese was not guilty, he advised the Council to
fcot Petitions to the Privy Council, praying
old sect might be renewed. The Learned
told the Couwilt that if they could get such
I respectable signed, they would succeed in
'Oka: el.—(iken) What had been the re-
ht of a vrpulation of 30,000,
only 43 persons
x ~,,Frcmcd to sign such Petition (Loud cheers);
-15 -.were all in the houses of individuals of
.
Though the Learned Lord thus re-
er.ded tltc Council to get the signature of re-
and independent men, there was not the
,4,b'f„ral:. independent man in the whole list of the
a, - cheers), while 1,400 independent
-4.td voted on :he '
done
to e atom side. Such was the in-
,the majority of the Citizens ;
the prayers of -IS individuals against
th(g),..--Ificar, hear.)
Loan -)v
?:4,18ay • 1 01,1. Eof SCOTLAND ex-
lAonourable Member bad spoken of
• eiesented to the Privy Council, upon the
1.4 person who had given him 4 statement'
:" 174% t;:lte and unfounded
tiked if the Learned Lord conbidered

what he had said, a falsehood, and unfounded—
(Cries of Order, order!)
The-LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said,
he certainly considered his informant had given him
an incorrect statement.
The SPEAKER called to order. If the confusion
which prevailed in the House had not prevented the
Honourable Member from hearing, he could not have
misunderstood the observation .of the Learned Lord.
Mr. FERGUSON spoke favourably of the Magis-
trates of Aberdeen, whom he had long known to be
honourable and respectable.
Mr. FORBES said, that he should have refrained
from offering himself to the attention of the House
upon the present occasion, had he not thought him-
self compelled to contradict some of the bold asser-
tions of the Noble Lord who had originated this Mo-
tion. When he heard such unfounded declarations
made against a public body, nothing on earth should
prevent him from speaking—( hear, hear, hear)—He
wished particularly to call the attention of the
House to the observations of the Noble Lord, with
respect to the finances of the town of Aberdeen. It
had been stated, that the town had been c/eclared a
bankrupt to the extent of £230,000. This had in
some measure been explained by the Honourable
Member opposite (Mr. Hume) ; but the fact was, that
the sum expended upon the streets and the harbour
only amounted to £208,000, the sum of £1Q6,000
being expended upon the streets, and £42,000 upon
the harbour. For the payment of the interest of this
debt, the town had revenues to within £6OO of the
interest of the whole debt due, at five per cent. He
felt persuaded that five per cent. interest would be
paid, and that ultimately the creditors would not
lose one farthing. It was a very remarkable fact
also, which was strongly in favour of his argument,
that the charities had not suffered the loss of a six-
pence, notwithstanding this alleged bankruptcy.
Sir GEORGE CLERK spoke in opposition to the
Motion, and justifies' by precedent, the authority of
Government in granting warrants for the re-election
of Magistrates. Whates er malversation the Magis-
trates of Aberdeen might have been guilty of, he
contended that it had nothing to do with the present
question. Whether strict law or uniform practice
were considered, he thought that no ground had been
laid for the motion.
Mr. MAXWELL was of opinion that the warrant
was illegal, and that the inhabitants of Aberdeen
were much better judges of their own interests than
the Lard Advocate or his Majesty's Ministers, who
had never seen, and knew nothing of the town. Had
not the call been made upon Parliament, it was impos-
sible to say to what lengths the little junto of Magis-
tracy might not have 'one.
Mr. WILBERFORCE felt that enough had been
brought forward in the cour. 2 of the debate to shew
that it was the duty of the House not to stifle in-
quiry into this subject. The authenticity of that most
important declaration of the Magistrates, that the old
system was liable to the grossest abuse, and had been
the source of most of the evils complained of. had not
been denied by any Member, and that of itself was
sufficient ground for the motion. What would be
said if the same abuses had existed in any town of
England?—(Hear, 'tear, hear.) This was a fair way
of putting the question, because those at a distance,
and who were mere uninfluenced by-standers, were
the most impartial judges upon the subject.
Mr. FIN LAY said, that when a particular ease
like the present occurred, the House was called upon
to interpose. The Learned Losd had made a long
speech upon the law, but he had not touched the
facts ; and if he had proved that a practice esisted,
the had failed to shew that it ought to exist—(Cheers).
no fact, no man but the Learned Lord would have
undertaken in such unqualified terms to defend the
system of the Scotch 13urghs. lie had shewn an utter
ignorance of all the particulars of the case ; and if
his law were as bad, as his facts were defective, his
case had not a leg to stand upor.—( flear, hear).
Lnrd C ASTLEREAGH would not have risen, but
for the sentiments just delivered : lie was quite wil-
ling to rest the whole case upon the admirable and
lucid speech of his Leat ued Friend :—( Laugkter )
that speech had been treated by the other side of the
House in a manner which sufficiently proved that
they were incompetent to reply to it—( Continued
laughter from the Opposition Benches).—The great
defect of the speeches on the other side was, that
they assumed the whole case; for no one act of cri-
minality had been established against the Burgh of
Aberdeen. All that the Magistrates had done was
for the Improvement of the Town, and there was not
even an allegation of mal-administration. It was not
just, because they Rad borrowed money of Public
Charities which had been freely lent, and the interest
upon whichshad been regularly paid, to brand the
whole body with fraud and malversation—( Hear).-
-It was quite obvious that the object of the motion
was exactly what it was so strenuously contended not
to be. The Noble Lord (Archibald Hamilton) had
done his utmost to persuade the House that he asked
very little, that his motion was one that none could
refuse ; but in fact it was nothing else than to intro-
duce into Scotland a Parliamentary Reform, which
the other side of the House could not obtain for,
England.—(Hear, on both sides.)—The disguise was
somewhat too thin to cover the real purpose, how-
ever artfully the Noble Lord might have enveloped
his motion in it. For his own part, he (Lord Castle-
reagh) was decidedly of opinion, that after the Act
of Union the House had no jurisdiction to interpose,
and whatever objections might now be made to the
system of election, it was obvious that the same opi-
nion did not prevail in the reign of Queen Anne; for
one of the ancestors of the Noble Lord had himself
brought forward a motion in the Scotch Parliament,
expressive of the highest approbation. Setting aside
this point, however, no case for inquiry or interfe-
rence had been established. Assertions might be very
serviceable, especially if they were sufficiently bold;
and it might be very convenient to some Gentlemen
to obtain a Whig, instead of a Tory, Magistracy ;
but it became the House to be cau'tious how it listen-
ed to such statements.:.—(Cheers.)—.Ar.other reason
for not complying with the motion, therefore, was,
that if the Crown ought in this instance to take upon
itself to give directions for disfranchisement, no case
1 could occur, however triflin , where the. same claim
might not be made backed by this precedent. Upon!
the whole, therefore, he was well satisfied that the
House would do wisely intejecting the proposition.
Lord A. HM411,1'0161 maid, coateading that nti,
answer had been given to hisitatamat of facts, eithet

'by the Learned Lord Advocate, the Noble Lord op-
posite (Casdereagh), or by the young Lord of the
Admiralty—the sucking statesman—the pupil of the
Noble Lord, who having now for the first time left
the nursery of Whitehall, had given so excellent a
proof of his aptness under so able a tutor—(cheers.)
The House then divided—the numbers were as fol-
lows—For the motion 105—Against it 110—Majo•
rity 5. The announcement of the result of the divi-
sion was received with continued cheers from the Op-
position side of the House.
The motion for the production of the several docu-
ments alluded to by the Noble Lord, was then put
and negatived.
Lord A. HAMILTON said, that as the House on
this occasion had divided so nearly, he should feel it
right soon after the holidays to move for other papers,
containing the reports of the law officers of the Crown.

the atteßtior
was stated by
tloto 121660
1;!./- in the buildi
ci",,000 was a sum
of-Aberdeen.
ro
of the Larne(
O t titci parliament,
isri•rf of the burge
401: this circumsta
ed, and to shew
;jeer and conceal
burgh alone-1
;histracy had wi'
tit/rated the expel,
!zt EstinlateS
;111 did not tat
etion of the Bur,
pliament to en
'execution. Th
e Purpose, Ull
jab, the 111embe
County, we
4 1,1 required
• .iroperations till
71 not authorize tl
:ne. He would

ug h the
.par
uteri were a
it had be
,at for sevente
ken carried on
bare carried
his possessia
/a a !demise
1 Ices ternei
cxause he had
esiag on right,
suspicions.
~:tr the Minnt
d ;rat he hal
rd.itv he wa;
horrowed.
iould he app9
could be appoi
iil.T.eion the s
illicit he had j
it 4 Gentkm:t
tts:,.ot allowe
11.; that was
races connect
mJ consented
due to 51
institution
rzied by the
be lost, as I
; ,rir,tces, ar
judicious
t
erin;tot
tr., the Hon,
:7‘ised mos
the ne%%
pildry ilc
Claimed h;
u'ay a poll e 1
vab:eused a
avntied, ti
:al alone, c
Ipalvanant
tin
tot the cc
....last 17 y,
peat of sec
Ley had occ
clay of the
aiteseJ by tl
of mi
dcpriva
haled to su
oczrit a fat
the N;
%.4% the grits
4 %lid%
They had us
ioa; ant
6e burgh wa
Lee had a
years, ii
tipetiticmt
..
111);10'.11
NI of dais
ates cf 31o:
:44rarrl.
of a So 7
Ikea a Poll
me:
7.zr,Ectl. the
tlt ;ns.lc:
ti?erirnent.
circum
zch mini
daft the
Itraed
"Pcil Elet
4 sap* si
.444tiCt aasd
loatose
r,ll feci
at ice
lied told
appli
• t),,t
•••• p.
'able
ti:nt of a
ler
do,
4like t,J.
•