Star.
London, England, 1827-05-04 00:00:00

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4.`

whenever I see a strong opinioti expreited by thole at,
persons who condutt the public press, I am disposed to
thai it is not because the Secretary Of the Treasury,
not becalm the Secretary of the Admiralty, or other
official person, has comMuntcated with them, but that
public opinion has been very loud, and that public
opinion has been very strongly expressing itself—
(Hear, bear), I am of opinion, that -.ahe people of
this country saw and lamented the ethbairassing situa-
tion of the Sovereign—that they approved of the
changes that have taken place—but that they have,
with one voice, notwithstanding the Honourable Gen-
tleman's speech of the other night was anything but
amity, regretted very strongly and very loudly the retire.
ment from office of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the late
Secretary for the Home Department—(Hear, hear,)—
and for myself I will say, it could not be stronger than
the deserts of that Right Hon. Gentleman—(Cheers).
The press has been faithful. I have not seen all the
publications or. this subject; but all, as far as I have
seen them, have been unanimous in a similaftexpression
of regret—(Hear). I know that amides have been made
on one illustrious individual, but that, however to be
regretted, is not surprising, as all men's public charac-
ten are public property. I may, surely, say, that his
(the Duke of Wellington*s) is public property—(Cheers).
I highly disapprove of the cooduct of all the other re-
tiring Ministers except him; but in his situation, from
peculiar circumstances, I think resignation was actin-
ble—(Hear, hear). How much they are to blame I
must avow. I was also quite surprised by the retire-
ment of Lord Melville: for all I enteitertain the highest
respect, and all, no doubt, took that step which they
thought their honour required. A great deal of cant his,
been used on the subject ; but I, for one, say, it is humit
nature for a man to, feel When another individual lei
placed over his head. •In what situation, however, had
the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head. of his Majesty's
Government been placed ? He felt himself left suddenly
by six or seven of his colleagues, and his Majesty felt him-
self deserted by his Council—(Hear). But, in conse-
quence, steps have been token, and are in progress,
which will give to this country a Government, it ever
one deserved that name—a loch will give to his Ma-
jesty able, honest, intelligent, advisers and servants--
(Cheers). It is on these grounds that I am prepared to
give them my warmest support. 1 will receive no
office myself, but I will answer for the probity and the
independence of those of my lion. Friends who will
accept of office (Ct,eers) —CHere the Hon. and Learned
Member most warmly eulogised the conduct of the
Right Hon. the First Lord of the Treasury, and his
(Mr. Brougham's) friends throughout the negotiation
between them, with all the particulars of which he had
been aware; adding, that, so far from chewing an avi•
dity and- a love for place, nothing could be more alien
to such a feeling than the conduct of his Honourable
Frieuds3.The difficulty had been, not to gratify their de-
sires, but to remove their scruples—to remove their
difficulties. He had combated those scruples until he had
been fatigued with them, but he had the unspeakable sa-
tisfaction to say, that he had been instrumental in
finally overcoming them, and in producing the termina-
tion of the negociation,io a manner on which he could not
help congratulating the country. Is it possible, there-
fore (continued the Hon. and Learned Gentleman), that
men se reluctant to come into power, should, at the
eery instant that they crossed this House, abandon their
principles, and abandon the Catholics? It such a thing
should occur, it would be the greatest political miracle
over witnessed. (Here the Hon. and Learned Gentle.
man entered into a recapitulation of the other great
public questions on which he had concurred in opinion
with the Right Hon. the Premier. Among these were
the invasion of Spain by the French, and then proceeded).
—This is not a question 'toothy of a division. It has
been got up to answer the purposes of party manoeuvring
'by splay which, I prophesy, from its infant aptitudes
'for Ildliniste•ial opposition, will prove a more frequent
and more factious one than ever sat on the benches that
it now occupied—a numerous opposition, I acknow-
ledge—l see it with pleasure. Having been long in
opposition habits, I know the probable effect of num•
ben in such a situation. Nothing is so bad as a large
opposition—nothing so cumbrous, so unmanageable;
something must be given up to one—something to
another; as, for instance, to the Hon. Mover of the
present motion, who, in the spirit of triumphant oppo-
sition, has introduced a factious debate—a speech and
motion grafted on the motion of another Honourable
Member; and to the same Honourable Member, when
he spoke, on a former occasion, of the Bishop's Castle at
Lambeth—(Cries of Order).—Next, some concession
most be made to another Hon.Gentlentan,who, although
as little a friend to the present Opposition, as he is to
Cathol c Emancipation, would divide the House merely
to shew the weakness of our numbers. As to the ques-
tion of Parliamentary Reform, I will admit that divi-
sions existed on it among the old Opposition, though I
can now add, that most men are in favour of moderate
reform, or. as Lord Castlereagh used to call it, mock
reform. I repeat that, of the old Opposition, not only
many Members, but many divisions, were hostile to re-
form. But it is strange, say our adversaries, that on
that question, to which the Rt. Hon. Chancellor of the
Exchequer has pledged his hostility—a question on
which we have divided against him—it is strange that
on that question we.do not still stand out. It is not, I
assert, that if we withheld our support from the Right
Hon. Gentleman on that ground alone, we should have
acted unjustly to ourselves and dishonestly to the
country. But has there been no change in the prin.
eiples of the Administration which could justify our
coalition? Yes; the great features of the Government
have been partly remodelled and partly remade since
the death of the late Marquis of Londonderry. Since
that period the conduct of the Administration has been
guided by a liberal, manly, and truly English feeling,
on questions of continental policy. It has b.en guided
by an equal spirit of liberality in the affairs of South
America. The measures of the late Chancellor of the
Exchequer, and-of the President of the Board of Trade,
had been influenced by the like temperate, sage, and
statesmanlike principles, on the three important interests
of commerce, currency, and manufactures. These are
the three grand cardinal features which mai k the
character of the Right Hon. Gentleman's policy, and,
in the prosecution of that policy, he has constantly re.
.ceived the support of our votes and our voices. Is my
approbation, then, of his measures new? No. I were
mad if I did not approve them—l were mad else—
for I myself propounded those very improvements
long before they were adopted. I propounded them
in 1814, in the form of resolutions, which were partially
admitted and partially rejected. I fought the same
battle over again in 1816, against Lord Castlereagh,
through the whole Session: I propounded them once
more in a formal motion in 1817, on which occasion .1
divided the House, and received, on that division, the

sappint of filmy one cif my Roundtable }friends around
me. The milt questions of importance that followed
were those that tegatkled :the Holy Alliance and the.
war in Spain. The Holy Affiance was then in its bristle.
1
--(Laughter). When I divided the House on that
question, and arguing against my Lord Castlereagh, 1
expressed my suspicions of their views, and my convic-
tion of the disgrace that would result to Great Britain
from any connection with that junto of depots. How
was I met? I was treated as a wild enthusiast—laughed
at as a speculative theorist—a see-er of sights, and a
dreamer of dreams. I was charged with seeing in a
grain of mustard seed the germs of a mighty tree, that
should overshadow the earth with its branches, and
hide from mankind the sacred light of liberty. Nothing
was so harmless, it was said, nothing so amiable as that
coalition of the Princes of Russia, Prussia, and Austria.
My suspicions were derided as the theories of a fanciful
speculatist. Well, notwithstanding all this, I did not
change these opinions. The death of the Marquis of
Londonderry at length opened the way for the Right
Honourable Gentleman below me—the only change of
Ministry that arose out of that circumstance—and that
led to the immediate adoption of a m inly, liberal, and
English feeling on questions of foreign policy. This is
the ground, these are the principles, on which' I support,
and have supported, the Right Honourable Gentlemen.
On these principles let him in future conduct the Go-
vernment, and he shall have from me that which he has
a right to demand—that which I am bound in common
honesty to perform to him—a cordial, zealous, but most
disinterested support—(Loud cheering).
Mr. CANNING—Sir, I rise with the purpose, and not
without a hope, of obtaining priority of consideration
for the motion of the Gallant General which stands in its
regular turn for discussion. Without proposing to lay
down arty particular plan for the regulation of our pro-
ceedibgs, I shall take leave to suggest, that such a pals
pable departure from the regular and understood co
of Parliamentary business, as that contained in the too-.
tion of the Hon. Member, carries its own cure along
with it in the disgust which it must excite in all honour-
able minds—(Cheering). Sir, these tricks are too ap-
parent, and I have no doubt that the House will
mark a due sense of the motive in which they
ginate, by such a minority as shall deter a speedy recoral
rence to such disengenuous practices—nor can 1 omit to
warn that minority to beware how they proioke the
majority to the adoption of similar measures, and to
remind them how little ground they leave to them-
selves for complaint, if they should suffer from such imi-
tation of their own conduct. Sir, I cannot consent that
a motion thus introduced for the purpose of founding
on it an irregular and interpolated debate, should take
precedence before one of which due notice had been given'
—which was regularly set down for discussion, and in
the decision of which, most important interests were
concerned—nor would the postponement of this motive
be only irregular, but also unjust—inasmuch as it abase
tend to disappoint the expectations of that numerousl
class of persons interested in its fate. As to the pointed
animadversions which the Hon. Gentleman has thought
proper to make personally on myself, I can assure him,
that I do not feel in turn the slightest personality against
him, in consequence of that attack. I am too old a
stager now, not to be able to bear such attacks with
some degree of temper ; and, particularly, an stuck'
far interior in force and quality to many whose brunt
have endured with perfect indifference. But as, I am
re,olved not to be deterred, by the irregular intoducs
(ion of personal topics, from entering into an ample
discussion of them, when they shall be brought te.
gularly before the House, so I shall disdain to notice
suck attacks, when forced on like the present, against
the legitimate order of our proceedings. I cannot,
however, pass over the exultation affected by the Hon.
Gentleman, on the supposed contradiction of the state-
ment made by me, relative to the time at which I re-
ceived the six resignations of my late colleagues. I.
regret also, that my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel)
misunderstood me to say, that I had received them
while in the chamber of his Majesty. The facts, the.
particular facts, of the affair, were these received
the resignation of Lord Westmorland'on the 11th, at,
night ;—of the intended resignation of my Right Hon.
Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, I had
been some time aware, from my personal communica-
tion with him;—the resignation of the Duke of. Wet-•
lington, dated the 11th, 1 received on the 12th, about
half.past ten in the morning ;—and that of my Noble
Friend, Lord Bexley, about the same time. With these
four resignations, I proceeded to St. James's. Up to
that hour the resignations of the Chancellor and Lord
Bathurat had not arrived at the Foreign Office; but
having reached it soon after 1 left for St. James's, they
were, in pursuance of directions which I had previously
given on the subject, instantly forwarded to me to the
Palace; and on this I must observe, that so far was 1
from expecting the resignation of the Chancellor, that
I was induced, by the terms of his letter, to imagine he
would still retain office--a delusion-into which his Ma-
jesty, also, was led by the letter. And, while on the
Chancellor's resignation, I cannot dismiss, in justice to,
that Noble Lord, this part of the subject, without
stating that his conduct, through the whole of these'
proceedings, was in the highest degree unexceptionable
_(Cheering). As to the apprehension entertained by
the Honourable Gentleman, that a division on his mo-
tion may effect a too early dissolution of our new alli-
ance, I request be will not allow his fears to stand in
the way of his intention. as, I trust, I can safely assure
him they have not the slightest foundation in fact or
probability—(Laughter). For the specific object of the
Honourable Gentleman" motion, namely—a request
that a copy of the commission of the Judge-Advocate
be laid before the House, I am at a loss to guess ea
hat ground the Honourable Gentleman has discovered
the person appointed to the place of Judge-Advocate
before the appointment has been made, except the Hon.,
Gentleman has proceeded on the Cambridge principle
—take the number of a ship's masts—divide it by the
number of guns, and you have the name of the Captain
—(Laughter). As the Hon. Gentleman must have'
perceived that it is the wish of the House to proceed to
the regular business of the day, I trust he will not he-
sitate to withdraw his motion. (The Right Hon. Gentle-
man resumed his seat amid most enthusiastic cheering).
Captain DUNDAS rose, amidst much confusion,
and vindicated his Noble Relative (Lord Melville) from
the charge of having made a sacrifice of principle.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanation, denied that he
meant any thing diirespectful to the Noble Lord. He
did not impute to the Noble Lord, in leaving the Ca.
binet. any sacrifice of principle; on the contrary, he
thought there existed no reason for the Noble Lord's
leaving, for which reason he sincerely wished to see
him hack again.
Mr. PEEL, from under the. gallery, rose, and spoke
to the following effect:—As it is understood that this

etening isto be devoted to other business of a marelar nature, I shall, for that reason, abstain from allusion
many topics that have been introduced into this discs
sion. But the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. Brougham) has dwelt upon questions so import-
in themselves, and tending so materially to affect
degree of confidence which ought is be placed in
Government by the Parliimentairdthe country, that
cannot bring myself to think they can be so hai
disposed of, by the sarcasm and levity of the Hon. GI,
tleman. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman has
scribed the Hon. Members, who sit on the other side
House, as the opponents of the prerogatives of ,
Throne. Though a new Member of the Admiai,l
d u
on, the Hon. Member has already acquired the -
a piece of old ministerial cant—a bind of ar orn.
'e
from which I, and my Hon. Friends, abstained wi
in office, though now the Hon. and Learned Getttlema
imputes to us a factions opposition, through a de it
uphold place. and that, after we had abandonej
office, for reasons which the Honourable and Learn('
Gentleman himself states to be insufficient—(lleac).
I have sat in this House, Sir, for fifteen years; in •
time my personal animosities, if I had any, have
extinguished ; but my political principles are st.l
lively as ever. As the coalition between certain fill
bers of the late Government and the Whigs, illy:
questions which must affect the degree of confident,
House is called on to place in the present Government,
can the House give its confidence to an Aiminiitratio,
until it knows the principles on which it has ben
strueted—the grounds on which that confidence it
mended? With respect to the question of Paiiiament,
Reform, I hear tonight, for the first time, and the emit
try will hear with surprise, that, a powerful body
opposition that was wont to sit on the °V er side of
House before, apparently divided by many shades
difference, and without any visible bond of uni
should now, actuated, every man of them, by
spirit of association, consent to a measure ine.i
au essential change in the constitution of thatti,
The House ought to be informed whether the
tion of Parliamentary Reform was to. be left
touched, like the Catholic Question, or whether
Catholic Question itself was to remain still—or, vi
new elements of discord were to be intro&
and the question of Reform, also, was to be .4
Though I have received much satisfaction from
explanation of the Learned and Hon. Gentleman,
point, I am anxious to know something more.
to know the conditions on which the Hon. and Leaned
Gentleman has joined my Right Hon. Friend,
ther my Right Hon. Friend had no alternative
formation of his Government, but a junction
former opponents, on the conditions to which
alluded ? But the Hon. Gentlemen on the ot
have rushed, as it were, with one accord, to sups
prerogatives of the Crown! But why do they
into office W* if they are so anxious to sup
Throne, why do they not forget Parliamentary
and Catholic Emancipation? Why do they mere'
places to be taken for them in the boxes, which
tend to fill hereafter ? It is not lair, it is not .
in a party, to form a junction on such condit
wait, as it were, a certain period of probation,
to qualify their principles. Why, in this count',
abounds with experienced and stiong minds, tut
to meet the difficulties of the times, why should
allowed that high offices of State should be
sagacious Ministers, who are intended to be
after the temporary difficulties shall have vanished
the boasted necessity of supporting the prerogr
the Crown shall have ceased !—(Cheers and fat
Sir, I am sorry to behold public mem, in high
compromising their principles; and though I sl
be sorry to see the powerful party of Vt-bigs
from office.:—(A laugh)—l should be sorry to
deteriorated in principle, and sunk in the opinions
country —(Cheers.) Why was the onion between
parties delayed, if there had been either no eagr
one side to obtain place, or compromise on
to forget principle? Sir, I think,that the Hot
Gentleman's explanations have satisfactorily
that the Whig party has sunk itself from it
station of independence. For how do there
men support their principles ? Is their adherence
principle manifested in the Noble Lord (John R.
abandoning his motion for the repeal of the
Corporation Acts, of which he had given notice,
communication with the Dissenters? Though
ever he shall think it expedient to bring it fore,
shall be ready to oppose it; but neither through
as some may suspect, to try, through means, the •
of parties on the probable fate of the Catholic
nor through a desire of place. I have no wish
—I gained nothing-by office-1 have, on the c
made sacrifices in holding office. I shall not
factions opposition to the Government, but I shall
independently of the Government; through good
and evil report, I will not be a party to a virulent
sition,but shall support those principles which
best calculated to promote the interests of the Crt
the people, whatever may be the principles and
of the Government. I shall fearlessly d 3 my
those great questions of domestic policy as to
tion of Catholic Emkncipation, I think the.
given by no means satisfactory. lf, on the first
which that question was debated Allis Session,
foresee that the Honourable Member for West
would this week stand forward as the active so;
of a Government divided on that question—ifs
observations which I heard that night from the
Member for Knaresborough, and other Gentlemen
were used to sit on the other side of the Honer'
impolicy and danger of governing Ireland by a
Cabinet—if I could then, at that time know that
same Gentlemen, but two months after, were '
their support to an Administration divided on that
important Irish Question, he never would hr
cured to give credence to the passibility of
union (Cheers). I will assert, that I am
at this union of the Whigs with the Go
with the present Government—when I recollect
long since, the Foreign Secretary was wont tr
the Catholic Question, and the Home Secreat.
pose it ; while, under the present arrangemen'
Prime Minister differs from the Lord Chancellor
horst), not only in political principle, but person.
ing—(Cheers). Under the former arrangement
Attorney General and the Solicitor-General
their sentiments on this great question, while
see the present Law Officers of the Crown (ti
Member for Peterborough, and the Solicitor-Ge
opposed to each other on a question, on who!e
character they are liable to be asked their opir
the information of the King—and what is std
singular, both Gentlemen Candidates for the re;
lion of the same University, and claiming the sub
like electots, one, on the ground of his attachment, 1.

re reap. 'CI
bunion to ti
is discus.
!ntleman "se
npostant as
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ave been Pal
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I support the jai
tary Reform GI
metely silo. P
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3t et editablt, the
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be me sod
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nd laughter.)
high slams '
I I s' mildest
ig s excluded
r to see tLeo
opinion of the
between the
eagerness ce
m both ides
: Honourable
only Frond
m its forme I
the -e Gentle.
adherence to
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the Test aid
I notice, after "
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rough a visk
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se Crown and
and conduct
) my duty on t
to the quee •
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first night on
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Westminster El
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1611.°i 5:'11