Star.
London, England, 1811-07-20 00:00:00

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.P.ARLIAMENTAIr PROCEEDINGS.
HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 19.,
Their Lordships met at abetit five o'Clock, when Mr. Johnson,
from the office of the Irish Secretary of State, presented 'Salmis,
which were laid on the table.
Mr. LUSHINGTON, and other Members of the Commons,
brought up the amended Militia Interchange Bill, which was read
the first time, and ordered for the second reading to-morrow.
Upon the Irish Appeal, Garde .0. Burton,
Lord REDESDALE spoke at great length, when, on the nu
tion of the Lord Chancellor, the further consideration was post-
poned to to•morrow.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF C 0155.....
Mr. Prior, from the Bank, presented an Account of the num-
ber of Bank Notes in circulation oa the 6th and the 15th of July.
—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. Hutton, from the Navy Pay Mice, presented the Answer
of Messrs. Cook and Halford to the Lear: of the Treasurer of
the Navy, respecting the charge of £462, &c. connected with the
captures by the Fisgard.—Ordered to be printed.
CIRCULATING MEDIUM BILL.
The Order of the day having been read for reading
a third time the circulating Medium Bill,
Mr. BROUGHAM expressed a wish to be allow-
ed to bring forward, in the first instance, his Resolu-
tions on the subject.
' The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
observed, that he understood it had been settled, that
the Honourable Gentleman was to discuss these reso-
lutions in the debate on the third reading of the Bill.
After the Bill was disposed of, the Honourable Gen-
tleman, if be thought proper, might take the sense of
the House on his Resolutions, and enter them on the
Journals.
Mr. BROUGHAM acquiescing in this arrange-
mint,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
Staved, " That the Bill be now read a third time."
Mr. G. JOHNSTON opposed the Bill at consider-
Inble length, contending that it was a nugatory mea-
sure. He entered into a variety of details, to shew
the depreciation of our paper, particularly by a com-
parison of the present and former price of wheat and
other articles. As to the conduct of Lord King, the
Honourable Gentleman confessed that he should have
been induced to take the same step with regard to his
own tenantry several years ago, had it not been for
the apprehension of the clamour which it might have
occasioned. Adverting to what had been said of the
unfavourable state of the ,exchanges with foreign
countries, arising from the balance of payments being
made against this country, he referred to the reports
from the office of Inspector-General of Exports and,
Imports, to shew that the trade of this country with •
the Continent, had never been so flourishing from the
beginning of time as during the last two years. The
depreciation of paper he attributed to the over issue
both by the Bank of England and by all the country
banks. The restriction on the last payments in 1797,
he was persuaded had been highly injurious. Even if
the Bank of England had lapsed at that period, there
would have been other bodies of men ready to come
forward to supply their place, on the firm ground of
,
imaintaining any pecuniary engagements into which
they might enter. It was childish to talk of the
'strength of the country residing in the Bank, or p -
per, or fictitious resources. It was to be found in our
industry and manufactures ; and by the result of these
alone could our great foreign expenditure be main.
tained. All the existing evils he ascribed to a depar-
ture from the sober principle of a metallic currency ;
and he declared it to be his opinion, that if Parlia-
ment passed the present Bill, as a preparatory step to
making Bank Notes a legal tender, there was an end
to all security for property in the country.
As soon as the Hon. Gentleman had concluded,
Mr. TIERNEY, adverting to the thinness of the
House, moved that it be counted. •
Strangers were instantly ordered to withdraw.—
We understand, that on counting the House, it ap-
peared there were forty-one Members present ; the
discussion was of course allowed to proceed. On our
re-admission we found
Mr. PATTISON on his legs, replying to the speech
of his Hon. Friend. He observed that it was not
surprizing that the unfavourable state of our foreign
exchanges should make an impression so injurious to
our currency ; and that as to what his Hon. Friend
had said of the trade of the country with the Conti-
nent having flourished so much during the last two
1 years, it should be recollected that the mere export of
i goods could not operate on the exchanges until they
were turned into money, and the payments came
'round. He denied that the increased price of wheat
was any proof of the depreciation of paper. That in-
crease had been originally occasioned by a season of
1 scarcity, and it was well known how difficult it was,
when a commodity had risen in price from any cause,
however temporary, to bring it down again. He I
considered the measure taken by Lord King as an
unfortunate one, and as tending to the re-establish.
Intent of the old principle of' barter, which would be a
post inefficient mode of carrying on the present ex-
tensive commercial dealings of the country. He ad-
'Pitted that our situation was ore of difficulty ; we
iirere exposed to a severe trial, but it was not of our
own
seeking, and we were bound to endure it m in-
fnlly. The national debt was unquestionably great,
Ibkit the operation upon it of that powerful engine, the
Sinking Fund, . was very considerable, and in the
nitimate event of the restoration of peace, we should
*non be lightened from the burdens which now pres-
tied so heavily on the country.
Mr.WESTERN entered his solemn protest against 1
the Bill. It attempted to do that which no human
power could accomplish ; and violated all those prin-
ciples which ought to be sacredly maintained in civi-
lized society. He would suppose, that the deprecia-
tion of paper increased to a considerable degree, and
that Lord King's-tenants became at length convinced
of the justice of the Noble Lord's claim to be paid
in the •manner 'stipulated in their original contracts
with him, ancUthat with this conviction they were
disposed to pay him an equivalent sum in the depre-
ciated paper,•would they be subject by the enactments
of the Bill'io penalties for so doing ? It was taking
a very confined view of the subject to imagine that
`the Bill merely applied only to landlord and tenant.
It had a much wider and more destructive influence.
-It would he most injurious in its consequences to
stilall annuitants, and to all those who, for several
ears past, had been suffering so severely from the
increased and increasing price of all the necessaries of
life, chiefly occasioned by the depreciation of paper.
iA few years ai3O a Mound of gold would purchase
eighteen quarter) qt wheat. rise advanced price (1
turn Wad such) that a few years after, but fourteen

-INIMONS.

quitters could be purchased with the same quantity of mu currency.. A Merchant receiving bullion fi.r
of gold, and now it would purchase but twelve quar- his goods at any one of the places he had named, he
ten and a half. Hence it would be seen, the tenant, immediately went to the Commissary-General, and
whir had at the first-mentioned period contracted to obtained bills on this country at a depreciation of Ili
give an equivalent to eighteen quarters of wheat, now ..per cent. at Lisbon, and of 33 at Malta and Sicily.
only paid that which was equal to twelve ansfa half. This was the rate of the depreciation at the time he
The rise of the prices of-commodities in general prov. was in those ports.; he understood it had since rifle*
led gold had not advanced, as some parsons might at the two last-menti sned places to thirty.eight. He
imagine. The increased prices paid for every article attributed the evil to the mauuer in which the war
of consumption were only to be accounted for from was carried on. Sicily, he contended, did not re-
the depreciated state of our currency. The Bill he quire one English soldier to defend it. Aided by a
thought would be injurious to those for whose advan- British naval force, it was fully competent to defend
tage it was said to have been framed, and he should itself. The Noble Lord here made some observa-
therefore give it his most decided opposition. tions on the Government of Sicily, and was proceed.
Mr. ROSE contended, that it had been the policy kg to state in what manner the subsidies furnished
of the country for centuries, to prevent the coin of by this country were disposed of there, when
the realm being sold. The Bill, therefore, far from The SPEAKER desired to know if the Noble
infringing the rights of the subject, did but enact Lord really thought the internal state of that mul-
e/hat had long been understood to be the law, and try, and the affairs of Spain and Portugal, were con-
what, if not the law, had been intended to be the neeted with the question before the House? he had
law. With respect to what bad been said of its inv. : been very unwilling to interrupt him, but thus wan-
tecting the debtor against the creditor, he observed, ' dering from the subject exceeded all the limits of
it was only intended to protect the tenant against' debate.
charges which might be made, but could not be i Lord COCHRANE resumed. He explained why
equitably made. The tenant, it should be m. he had thought die subjects to which he had adverted
membered, if he charged a higher price for the pro- connected with the question. He then proceeded to
duce of his lands, was obliged to pay a higher price speak of the general conduct of the war, and asserted,
for every article he consumed, and therefore it was , that if Spain and Portugal were left to themselves,
!doing no more than wits right, whsn they protected our military force might be so applied as soon to lesse.i
lihim against such charges. It was too much to say, I thelpublie burdens. He was convinced that if Go.
'that
' the example of Lord King would be followed by , vernment made u.'ie of the information they had in a
no one else whose motives were less honourable than ( proper manner, with one half of the navy and one
I were these of his Lordship. The advance in the tenth of our army, (he would assert it without fear
price of wheat was, in a great measure, to be as- of its-being disproved, however it osig!it be contra-
-1 cribed to our Corn Laws, which had laid on it : dieted), o they might lay the whole coast of Bona.
Ithree or four and thirty per cent. within the last 1.5 parte in ruias, and reduce the enemy to a peace in
' years. It was the duty of Parliament to protect the . less than twelve months." He was confident, from
tenant, not against Lord Ring, but against the met- I what he had read, and from what he hadskeen, that
ciless landlord, who might distress bim to gratify a I an army of 10,000 men, properly disposed of, would
mercenary disposition. The price of gold will four keep the whole disposable force of France engaged.—
pound par ounce at the beginning of last century, ! (Here the Noble Lord was interrupted by cries of
It had been at the same price within the last two : Question, question ! Chair, chair.")
years. It would be found in a table of philosophical l The SPEAKER requested the Noble Lord to
transactions, left by the late Sir G. Shuckburgh, that confine himself to the question.
the prices of most articles were more than doubledi Lord COCHRANE said he wished to do so. He
since the first mentioned period. Thus it would be ' then went.on to state what Bonaparte would do if he
seen, while other commodities doubled their prices, had our naval superiority ; when he was again called
gold remained stationary. Our imports had been to the question, and the Speaker was desired to in-
greater than they ever were before in the last two terfere.
years, with this circumstance attached to them, they I The SPEAKER said he was authorised to say the
had been made in foreign ships. This, combined Noble Lord would risk the displeasureof the Hutu,—
with our foreign expenditure, was a most serious if he proceeded in that course.
consideration. Our exports, when the expences of I Lord COCHRANE repeated, that if 10,000 me*
freight, &c. dm were taken into consideration, would I were employed in the manner he could wish on the
be found to have been made under circumstances coast, the whole disposable farce of the enemy would
which bad never existed before. They might appear be kept engaged, and the expence would not be a 4
from the Customhouse books to be what his Hon. thing like so great as that incurred by our present
Friend had stated them to be, but there were certain operations in Portugal. He thought the statements
considerations which ought not to be overlooked. In be had made were necessary for the good cf the na.
the first place, a large portion of our exports were , tion. He was actuated by no motive but tho desire
confiscated, and, of course, not one shilling had been'iof benefiting the country. He declared upon his ho-
derived from them. Others had been burnt, and on nour and before his GOD, he did not want to be em.
some of those which were neither confiscated nor ', ployed in any way, and he hoped Ministers would not
burnt, heavy duties of 40 or 50 per cent. hat: been ' think that he did. The depreciation of the currency,
imposed. Those which had been sold, having he contended, was caused by the profligate nianoerio
escaped the confiscation, the conflagration, and the which the war was carried on ; and lie then gave
enormous duties he bad mentioned, had not always' notice that it was his intention to call the attention of
been paid for. There were instances of merchants Parliament to this subject early in the ensuing Session.
having drawn bills on their correspondents, who were Mr. W. TAYLOR was of opinion that tne present
known to be solvent, which were ultimately returned measure, it not a cure,.would be found the best pal-
on the drawer, from there being nn way of escaping liative that could be applied to the existing evii.—i
the tyranny which prevailed on the Continent of Eu- I This was not denied even by those who were loudest
I rope. These deductions were to be made from the in asserting the depreciation of the Bank note, and he
1 .
Iprofits of our exports, and these might account for the I should therefore vote for the Bal..
Icountry being drained of its gold, as while this system The Hon. Mr. HERBERT considered the Bill
[ was acted upon by the enemy, our merchants were as Yikely to be much more dangerous in its effects,
religiously scrupulous in making their payments than that practice which had caused it to be intro-
' good. Could any man, after this statement, be stir. doted, and which had been spoken of as tending to
prised at the state of the exchanges, or wonder at the destroy all the bonds of civilized society. After
absence of gold. It had been proposed to establish some observations on its probable effects on the
[ a new Bank, but the party who suggested this idea Country Banks, he concluded with observing, it they
had also proposed, that it should not be obliged to I were obliged to pay, in cash, instead of its beings'
make its payments in gold. He saw no advantages disadvantage to this country, it would be the meatis
likely to result from such an establishment. After ,of keeping within it the money which was now sent
the investigation which had taken place of the affairs I to France for her produce, and he was convinced that
'of the Bank in 1797, when it had been found there ' France would be obliged to send her produce here,
'i was in the possession of the Company a surplus of 15 I and take our manufactures in exchange.
Millions above what they held intrust for the public,he Mr. PETER MOORE said, he had taken no pit
thought the Bank a safer deposit for the money and in the discussion on the Bullion Committee ques-
paperof individuals thananyotherthatcould benamed. It tion. He thought that, so long as the subject did
The paper circulation was better left in the hands , not murmur, it did not become the House to inter.
of the Bank Company, than placed at the disposal • fere. In this opinion he was sanctioned by the Han.
of any other body. The unfunded debt had been Islemher for Yorkshire, who generally went deeply
spoken of as becoming mast injurious to the coun- into every subject, and consideredfrom the Chanor of
now three-pence farthing a day. Some time ago, it I Exchequer, on the second reading of this Bill, a state
was three-pence halfpenny. From this it would be lof the country at present, as that subject fell now im-
am that that was not becoming a very heavy bur- I mediately under his department. 'ln this, however,
den. It was obvious that the Ruler of France now ,he bad been disappointed. Indeed, all their informi-
directed his greatest efforts against our finances. Thus .tion on this subject was derived ,from the Treasurer
I situated, no one thing could be so injurious to the of the Navy. he Restriction Biil in 1797, like the
country as neglectiug to keep up the credit of our present Bill, was declared to be temporary... Ann how
paper. How far this would be done by the present many temporary measures have, in the most insidious
Bill he did not know ; but it would have that effect I manner, been converted into perpetual measures ? It
in a considet able degree he had no doubt, and with I had been renewed from two months to two months,
this feeling he heartily concurred in the measure. till we had got the present length, and till we did not
Mr. WILBERFORCE thought, that in the situa- know how to turn ourselves—( Hear.) He hoped the
tion in which the country was placed, some measure House would indulge him till he traced the steps by
became indispensibly necessary, and this appeared to , which the country had got into the present d Ificulties.
be that which most naturally suggested itself under i He then went into a history of the several renewals
such circumstances. He could hardly have supposed lof the Restriction Bill. The Bank, however, bad come
that any man would adopt that line of conduct which forward, and stated their willingness to have the Res
had been adopted by the Noble Lord, who was the striction Act repealed. This was stated in a Reseit
cause of this measure being introduced, and still less tto the House, which was presented by an Honoursble
could be have supposed it would he resorted to by a 'Gentleman of the name of Bragge ; and he remelt,-
person of Lnrd King's rank and character. if any . bered it had been said then by a Right Hon. Gen-
thing could have been less expected by him than this, tleman behind him (Mr. Sheridan), in the proposal
it was that such conduct would find such support as of the Bank not being agreed to, that Bragge was a
it has found. After that it might well be supposed good dog, .but Holdtast was a better—(Laosh ) He
that the example would be followed by meaner cha- said there had been a system of fraud practised on the
racters for mercenary motives. The decision of the public mind since 1793, not by any particular Admi.
Judges tended still more to render it necessary ; but nisiration, but by all Administrations—it was a dove-
yet he was of opinion, that it would not be thoroughly tailed continuation of the same system. He had no
efficient of itself. He would however, at least, give hesitation in saying, that 36 million's of specie were
time to persons to consider of same nieasure that to be found at (resent in this country ; it was non.
, would afford greater security. They ought, as soon sense to talk of the ship-loads of gold sent off to the
as possible, to resort to a currency convertible at Continent.
pleasure into cash, amid he hoped every practicat.le Mr. SHERIDAN, adverting to the mention made
retrenchment would be made in the public expendi. by his Hon. Fi lend ( Moore) of a foelish jokes which
cure of the country. he had used when the restriction passed oerved,
Lord COCHRANE said no docking of the that the joke had been remembered better than e e
branches could cure the evil which existed at the application. The Committee for investigating tl.e
root. Every vessel that conveyed goods to Portugal; affairs of the Bank, with Mr. Bragge at its head, re-
-1 Spain, or Sicily, to his knowledge, sold every artic'e ported the wiilingness of the Bank to pay in cash, if
for less than its original value, and the merchant was political circumstances would allow it. Upi u chink
vuly supported in this traffic by the &predated state Mr. Pitt applauded the Curomiuet and thy Sauk,


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