Star.
London, England, 1819-07-13 00:00:00

sum of megayto, enable hi tit to 4effay the first fis
;nnes of iettUAltl in ersleilhat dill:Might be soft-
permit
_who desire/A tohavep free pusur
'lithe sopa' a seat sum ist-thi4eretiry of States,.
Office,',hd be repolti oislandlligV the Ciffe. Persona
Who might Chooses:to i ail theassasoimPliii advann.
-tage, would. settle there wish the moat sistviintageons;
prospects. He concluded by moving an Addrqs
the Prince Regent, praying .that hisMoyal Ilighneu
might give directions that a sum 'not exceeding
£50,000 should-be placed at the disposal of the Se-
cretary of State for the Colonies. for the purpose of
affording facilities to persons desirous of emigrating
to the Cape of Good Hope. . .
Mr. HUME thought that this was not going far
enough. Polishes ought to he compelled to subscribe,
for the purpose of conveying to the Coloniesalltheir
able-bodied men who were now a burthen on the,
community for want of means of employment.'
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
.it was part of his plan that parishes should• be
lowed to subscribe: for. the purpose of conveying
abroad persons out of employment. But nothug
like compulsory emigration walintended (heti, kiwi.),
Mr. Alderman WOOD said there were malty thou-
sand acres on the Downs,. the property of hts Ma-
jesty, which might be a3/41vaautgeo*slY s gl4ltirged,
He was astonished that no attempt was:11141 .PiSy-
stow capital on tsons willing to cultivate it..
Mr. HUTCHINSON said, the-difficafti -WU 'that
this plan called upon persons to make a deposit vibe.
were not likely to have any money,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER-41M
he wished it to be understood that the Antails of die
plan were not yet settled. •
Mr. WILLIAMS said he was ccuiviuced this coun-
try possessed within itself the means of affcrdinv
misployment to every person within it. .
,After a few words from Sir J. 111Ansomaimms,
Address was agreed to.

SIR TROMA.S lIISLOP.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether any further
information had been received relative to the conduit
of Sir Thomas Hislop ? r
Mr. CANNING replied, that no further informs-
t.ilM had been received.
FINANCIAI. iitscn.urioNs.
Sir H. PARNELL said, that in moving the Order
of the Day for resuming the adjourned debate on the,
Finance Resolutions, he did not think it necessary to
enter into a long detail of the fivancial state of the'
country. At the beginning of the Session consider-
able hopes had been held out or the retrenchments of
the public expenditure, which, however, had not been'
sufficiently fulfilled. The Resolutions which he new
intended to move, pointed out various branclu4 on
which reductions might be made. One of the most
important of these was the expense of the collection
of the Revenue. If it was reduced from seven per
cent. to five per cent £1,200,000 would be annually
saved to the Public. Whatever might be the merits
or defects of his Resolutions he had spared no 1*
hour in making them as correct as possible; and he
had been careful not to make the several statements
more favoerable to his Views than the strictest accu-
racy warranted. He had stated the money paid to
the Bank as paid for managing generally ; it ought
to. have been for managing the
Public Debt. An,
)lailstated the number of
have been 90,000. Hese at
had 'beets fed into'
a mu
take,- also, in calculating the expenses in the office
of the-Beerbliey at War. The expenses under this
head for 1766; hid been stated at £8.003. when they
ought to have been stated of £51,000. But still the
sum voted this fourth year of peace, 1:55,000, was
£4,000 niore then -it had been in 1796, 'which had
been the third yiar 'Of the war. In stating the in-.
crease of the Civil List, it ought to have been stated
to have increased from aoo,ooo to £1,030,000. He
was aware that in offering any Resolutions upon the
suSject, he exposed his statements to the charge of
wanting official authority, and laid himself. open.
perhaps, to the imputation of interfeting with the
'province €i f official men. But the state of ihe finan-
ces of this country was such as to call for every re-
trenchment that could possibly be Made, and to. re-,
_quire retrenchments to be effected. not in the manner,
which had hitherto prevailed, but with ,a consider-
able degree of innovation. The Saving that could be
made by reducing the erpenses, while the establish-4
menu remained untouched, would, be very t(e
rifleat
but by a totally different system *very considerable
saving could be made. }'or instance, if the patron-
age of offices, instead of being vested in the Go-
vernment, were given to the heads of the several de-
pertments, and if greater attention were given to the
keeping of public accounts, much expense might be
saved. He should not now enter more fully into the
subject, but on a more convenient occasion he should
prove that his inferences were correct.
Mr. LONG said, as the Hon. Bardnet had not
gone very fully into the subjeetp hejMr. Long) was
relieved from the neassity of going into any deep
details. He did not ateose the Hon. Baronet of in-
tentionally misstating any but with respect to'
the accuracy of the -Hon. Baronet's statements, he
must say that the returns which the Hon. Baronet
ought to have referred to were on the table of thel
House, and had been published in every •Nevisliapes%
in the kingdom. As to what the Hon. Baronet' tied
said of the expenses of collecting the Revenue, ii svas,,
to be considered, ip comparing the Customs and Ex-
cise, that one of thee produced a much greater re-'
venue than the other. The Hon. Baronet, in his
Resolutions, gave a scale to shew that the expense of
collecting the Customs Duties had of late yestrsin-
-creased ; but it so happened that the difference of ex-
pense which appeared in the Hon. Baronet'S scale.
mit occasioned by the abolition of fees. One ef '
Resolutions' relative to auditing the public acconnee
Stated, that sufficient benefit had not been deri
front the Act of 1806, which regulated the auditing
of accounts. But if the Hon. Baronet's plan was fol-
lowed up, instead of a saving, be, verily believed it
would occasion a very considerable additional ex-
pense. As to the Resolution respecting the Paymaster-
General's Department, if this, were Ite proper time,
he could easily shew that pet improvements had
been made in the mode of keeping the -se iioo----
When the immense increase of the b,
Pay-office since 1796 was
6thought that 40001. a.year
bterease in-the expenses
begged to Le distinctly
'lle thought no saving could
'Revenue.

. fiord PALMERSTON explaiwd .the akingein
"Audi wilintended. with respeceto
Oa* for halfisay Offiescs wart to ,befeame44l6.lis*k;J
*tar that the Officer .clid,:not hold any raitaryate
cirJll o'ffice under. Goverpment, except those in.the
Colonies, which might, ow be.held by half-payAlk
As to the Resolutions of
.the Houourahlt,B&
ronet, be was scan be, had.uot brought up a list
his Errata to be printed. At the acne time he wkt
sure the Hon. Baronet's mistakes were quite uninten-
,,loan!. He..ceold only admit the Hon. Baronet's clairibt
to kqowledge„on. Financial selaiects with very consi-
deratle limitaticuis, for he cools/ not think that any one
who, in such a set of Resolutions,
.could fall into so
many mistates.could be well qualified for giving the
House much ttul.assistance in such matters., \As
to wh was stated lo them about the ComMander-
in-Chief,' comparing the expenses of that osce now
with what they had been in 1793, it was to be ob-
served, that in the latter year there was no such
office as that of Commander-in-Chief. The
who, in 1793, filled the office which
.most nearly
responded with the office of Commenter-in-Chief,
was I,qrd -Amherst, but his command did not extend
to all the troops on foreign stations, so that no fair
comparison could be made of the expenses of Lord
Amherst's department in 1793 with that of Com-
mander-in-Chief at present. But there was a more
important mistake than this. In comparing the ex-
peestos' of the War Department now, with what they
bad.been-in 1796, there was in the Resolutions of
the Honourable Baronet .to the amount of no less
149,000--(llear, hear).-:—ln stating the ex-
Kiiies of that department in 1796, he omitted, first,
the whole sum for contingencies ; 2d, the foreign
troopViesed, Sd, the fees, which in all amounted to
MOO% =akin& the whole expenses of the depart-
ments E. 57,000, instead of I:8,000, as stated by the
Honourable Baronet in his Resolutions: as to the ex-
penses of the establishment for arrear Accounts, it
had been the means of recovering annually sums
Much exceeding its expenses. The consolidations
which the Resolutions proposed in the department of
Military Accounts would occasion a very heavy ex-
pense, and create great confusion.
Mr. CALCRAFT said, notwithstanding the cen-
sures which had been cast upon the Resolutions of
the Honourable Baronet, the House and the Country
were very much obliged to him for having bestowed
his attention on this important subject. As to the
censures, it was a matter of farm for the Treasury
Bench to be up in arms against any proposal far
economy. But notwithstanding all the criticisms on
the little detail, the main point had not 'been grap-
pled with—nothing had been said as to the extrava-
gance in the collection of the revenue which had been
set forth. He ridiculed the petty criticisms which
his Hon. Friend's Resolutions had undergone from
the Noble Lord (Palmerston). While the Gentlemen
on the opposite-side talked of saving hundreds, he
((r. Calcraft) and his friends talked of their capabi-
lity of saving.millions. Talk of economy. The office
of Commander in Chief did not exceed an expenditure
of f:2000 a year formerly ; now it exceeds A:14,000.
There was in fact an excess of expenditure-in all the
departments of Government ; but those hi_ poppet
were determined to fly in the face of economy: When
you talk of an excess of expenditure, 'those in power
,exclaim-... 01, Look at the business we do!' But I say
—kook at the impoverished state of the country—
look at the finance.: In giving the vote which he was
now about to give, he was discharging the dictates
•of hit conscience. The country was highly indebted
50 dm conduct of his Honourable Friend for the pro-
positions now submitted to the House. But the Gen-
tlemen on-the other side said—,, Have we not gives
you Resolutions ?" He, for one, did not like the
paper kite, or paper system of the Right Hon. Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer ! While they were looking
at it with every degree of attention, his Tax-satherei-s
were emptying their pockets!—(Hear, hear, hear.)
While retrenchment was pretended, no principle of
sincerity was adopted so as to produce the desired
effect. On the Ministers there ought to be no reli-
ance. But he hoped they would endeavour to do
something during the recess to satisfy the People.
Sir T. B. MARTIN spoke in defence of the ma-
nagement of the Naval department, and entered into
a minute detail, advancing calculations for the dif-
ferent periods alluded to by the Resolutions of the
Honourable Mover. The increase of the expenditure
had arisen from the introduction of new duties. The
Honourable Member then went into a detail of the
business of the various offices in several departments
of the Navy. One branch of the new duties was a
regular correspondence with every connection of the
particular department throughout the kingdom. The
improvements. in the different offices of the Treasury
and Navy Pay-Offices had been very beneficial to the•
community at large. The allotment system also de-
served the thanks of the House and the Public. The
Honourable Baronet then went into his calculations,
proving that the cause of the apparent rise of expen-
diture was in consequence of the new plan for the
establishment, by appropriating iced and limited sa-
laries, instead of nominal salaries as.formerly. Every
cion's name and salary now employed in the,vari.
dockyards, were brought forwardin the estii
inateefor the current ; consequently the charges apt
peered considerably haereased. But in fact; there wa
weiescess of eapesidirure, but a great saving is th-
public by the new plan. All this had.axisen from
the recommendation of the House, thinking 'that
fixed salaries would be more beneficial to the ptilaidi
than the usual nominal ones, besides the fees, 3cc...-4
Now all fees Were-rut off, and the-person who acted
for the public had--nachitig hut his limited salary. In
the department of rho Quartermen, who generally
made the return of the work done by different men
throughout the various Dock-yards, there had been
a great saving. Fora Ply there had not only been
thou.sandi, but hitadhi of thousands in the course
of a year expended. aiw saved by the new plan,
namely, the limited salary: In the novelties of re-
form, 4 tittiber-office had been recommended, as a
plan of economy ; also a measurer's office. These two
plans had been introductory to vast savings. In 1796
the establishment of a chief officer consisted of 40
only; now, in consequence of .bringing forward to
the number had
Baronet had
intention of cri-
Naval Depart.
rhrioumble Mover was
but that the
0( tile- srllte
•

rease of rEe tit IsteA or the thaittblic eye all, the names, &c,:. the
was aassidereSl, it . iiiis • &ladled so -1410., The liouatitable
sar was a 's:ery, insfgaiiiitii, taiswight &mord Resolutions with.an in
oCv
111
in that Dva'au;. 'Sit hi' 140,10,,i . ernment. So far as the N
uttdersteitias into.) insit . -,4fite.eitied, the "Honourable
old be madqiiirt it% 4 .' AI CH*, and he hut *) doubt
4 . i 9 :",' ' :•iFf ' tharges.against ttle:Clitha'dtP4rtinentt
' ' •.:•.. ' • kr All i 47