Star.
London, England, 1819-03-16 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 15.

The Earls of Thm. and Comes took the oaths and their seats.
The Earl of SHAFTF.SBURY presented a Petition fzemthe
Parishes of St. George the Martyr, and St. Andrew's, Holborn,
against the continuance of the Insolvent Debtors' Bill, in its
present shape.
On the motion of Earl WHITWORTH, a Message was or-
dered to be sent to the Commons, requesting communication
of Copies of the Reports of their Committees, on the Affairs of
the Bank.
The further consideration of Trelawney's Divorce Bill, which
stood for this day, was adjourned till Wednesday.
The Aliens' and Denizens' Bill was brought up from the Com-
m ors by Mr. Blooziza and others, and read the first time.
The Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND presented a Petition,
from a number of Attomies of the Towns of North and South
Shields, against the admission of Persons to practise as &not
aries, without being duly qualified, &c. His Grace also pre.
witted a Petition from the Merchants, Manufacturers, and
others, of the Town and Port of Newcastle-upon. Tyne, against
any alteration in the present Coal Duties: and for leave, if any
such measure should come before their Lordships, to be heard
by their Counsel against the same.
Earl FORTESCUE presented a Petition from the Borough
o! Plymouth, praying for a revision of the Penal Code•
On the motion of the Earl of LAUDERDALE, the Cutlery,
Trade Regulation Bill was read the third time an 3 passed.
Earl FITZWILLIAM presented a Petition from Donewter
and the town of Kingston upon null, both praying for a revision
of the Penal Laws.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a Petition from
the Debtors confined in the Fleet Prison; praying for the coa-
ti:•uance of the Insolvent Debtors' Act; or at least, that no al-
teration may be made therein without further inquiry, &c•
The Noble Marquis also presented a Petition froni•tbe Bo-
rough of Sudbury, in Suffolk, praying for a revision of the Penal
Code—Tle abovo.mentioned Petitions were severally ordered
to lie on the table.

CLIMBING BOYS ABOLITION BILL.
Lord AUCKLAND rose, pursuant to his notice,
and moved the commitment of this Bill. After. what
had been urged in the former discussion of this
measure, his Lordship said he felt it quite Unneces-
sary to detain the House with any additional argu-
ment upon the subject. He could not avoid observ-
ing, that the general result of experiments which had
been made, was decidedly in favour of the measure;
and he adverted to what took place at a meeting of
th parish of Christchurch, in Surrey.. The inhahi-
talcs of this parish met to petition against the Bill. In
the course of the proceedings it was suggested that it
would be proper, in the first place, to try how far it
vas practicable to sweep chimnies by machinery. A
machine was produced, and experiments made; and
the result was so satisthctory that the very persons
'ho asscmbled for the purpose of petitioning against
the bill, actually signed a petition for it. The Noble
Lord also adverted to experiments which were re-
cently made in the buildings connected with the
House of Commons, where, in consequence of the
directions of the Speaker, a person had proceeded to
sweep with a machine, and could only sweep nine-
teen chimnies out of sixty-one. The Housekeeper
was, however, determined to continue the experi-
ment, and under his superintendeace no less than 60,
out of the 61 were swept. The chimney that re-
mained uuswept required some alteration to render it
;accessible to the machine. His Lordship then moved,
" That the Ilouse do now resolve itself into a Com-
mittee on the Bill."

The 1 a 3 of LAUDERDALE, though willing to
acknowledge the ability of the Noble Earl's speech.
which the Noble Lord who had just sat down re- •
garded as rendering any further argumeet unneces-
sary, yet hnist coetess, that that speech had not pre-
dueed the same impression on his mind. He recol-
lected that the Noble Lord had observed, that no
petition from public bodies had been presented
against the bill, and that he laid partkular stress on
none having been offered on the part of the Insurance
Offices. For his part, he could nut help taking a
very different view of the subject. lie WAS always
disposed to girt public bodies, as well as individuals,
credit for acting with a due regard to their own
interests. Now if theje Lordships looked at the case
on this principle, thersvonld soon discover, that the
insurance offices would have t eason to be well pleased
at the passing of this bill. It would )ncrease the
danger of fire, and in proportion to the. risk, the rate
of the insurance and the number of insurances would
augment. In fact, the bill promised to open to them
a new and fruitful source of gain. It was absurd,
therefore, to found any argumect on these corpora-
tions not petitioning against it. The supporters of
the bill contended, that the chimnies of the metropo-
lis could be all, or nearly all, swept by machines.—
Now, were this the fact, he would at once with-
draw his opposition—but if the report of the Sar•
veyer-Gereral was to be relied upon, and their Lord-
ships could ceiteinly hare no better authority tan
the opinion of so intelligent a man as Colonel Ste-
phenion, no such power was to be aoxibuted to the
machines. Colonel Stephenson had distinctly stated,
am the total abolition of Climbing B .sys was at pre-
sent impracticable, and could not be attempted
without endangering the general safety of the metro-
polis. But it will be replied, that it is not intended
that the bill shall operate immedi ttely : that in 'sas-
sing it, time will be afforded for the preparation of
machinery ; but Colonel Stephenson s report con-
tained satisfactory reason for refusing to pass a pros-
pective bill for such an object. It was stated in the
Report, that no machine had yet been invented which
was capable of cornple:ely supplying the place of
Climbing Boys. When such a machine should be
invented he wvild be ready to support a bill like the
present; but until he saw such an invention he would
oppose every measure of the kind. It had occurred'
with regard to this bill, as in many other cases, that
mankind where carried away by ideas of humanity,
which prevented them from giving due consideration
to the subject. They took a partial view 61 the evil
they wished to cure, and did not look at the relation
in which it stands to the general state of society.—
Hence they were not aware of the extent of the mis-
chief their remedy would produce. The merits of
the present bill might, perhaps, be illustrated by a
story which he would take the liberty of telling their •
, Lordships, though he was himself the subject of it.
The Physician who had attended him in his late
ness, had.prescribed large doses of calomel, so much
indeed, that he thought it necessary to ask him the
reason of such prescriptions. " Oh I. (said the Phy-
sicia4l can easily prove to you the advantage of my
practice. The calomel is like the Climbing Boys,
It *what's way into every corner and cranny of the
frame; and sweeps every deleterious particle clean
out t was the other sort of medicines resemble
the inachibisi and accordingly do the business very
imperfectly. They do not follow all angles and

turnings, but pass over many iniportant parts un•
touched, and leave heaps of matter, which after-
tervrards kindle into mischief."-.(Lond laughter.)-1.
It this story bad any effect in explaining the policy'!
of the measure, he might relate another, which per-
haps would serve to render its humanity more intel-
ligible. In some parts of Ireland it had been the
practice,. instead of employing Climbing' Boys, to
tie a rope round the neck'of a goose, and thus drag
the bird pp the chimney,which was cleanedly:the Rut-
tering of its wings. This practice so much interested
the feelings of many who for the sake of the goose
were ready to give up hum 40%4 towards other animals.
A man in a country village having one day, accord-
ing to the old custom, availed himself of .the aid of '
a goose, was accased brhis neighbour of inhuma-
nity.. In answer to the remonstrances of his accu-
ser, he observed that he must have his chimney
swept. " Yes, (replied the humane friend of the
goose),, to be sure you must. sweep your. chimney ;
but you crusl Gail you, why don't you take two
ducks, they will do the job -as well ?"—(Lastghter)--
The zealots for this Bill, had, in their blind eager-
ness to relieve a partial suffering, as completely for-
gotten the general interests of society, as had the
poor Irishman disregarding the , ducks in his ankiety
to save the geese. He certainly should be happy to
see the use of climbing boys , totally abolished ; but
if a machine can be i ,vented to sweep chimnies, that
invention could not be promoted, by this Bill. He
must, therefore, op ,ose it altogether; and therefore
moved as an amend nest, that instead of now, the
Bill be committed t lis day six months.
The Earl of }IA ItHOWISY was not , able to en-
tertain their Lordelips with any jokes, either vela-
Jive to himself, o: extracted from Joe Miller, but
he believed very little was neeetsary to be said to
induce them to support a measure founded in huma-
nity, and which they had reason to conclude was
perfectly practicable. He .could. not, however, 're-
frain from observing, that the Noble Earl had in
some measure shifted the ground of'his opposition to
the Bill. lie now dwelt solely on the danger which,
might be incurred in the Metropolis were sweeping
boys abolished. What then had become of those
general principles respecting free labour, on which
the Noble Earl had formerly's° .strongly insisted?
Of those principles the Noble Lord now said no-
thing. The best argument. for the Bill was, that it
would afford time and opportunity for making the
arrangements necessary to the abolition of climbing
boys. A sufficient time was allowed for experi-
meats, and if the Bill passed, every person, in anti-
cipating the abolition of the present inhuman prac-
tice, would be induced to try the machines. If he
saw any danger to the Metropolis from the measure,
he should he a unwilling to support it as any Noble
Lord ; brughe could perceive no ground for any such
apprehensllm. He thought, however, that unless
the Bill passed, the experiment would never he fairly
!nide and on that grouni he vrpported the Motion
for going immediately into the Committee. '
Their Lordships divided on the question that the
Bill be now committed—Contents, 20—Non-con-
' tents, 37—Majority, 17.
Lord LA VD Ert DA Les Amendment was then Put
and carried, and thus the Bill is lost.—Adjourned.