Star.
London, England, 1821-02-10 00:00:00

this number of Members should obstruct him end
his friends, in every plan of economical Reform ?
(Hear.)—There was another class of Members in
;his House, who were called independent Members,
t whose families lived on the taxes of the country
, hear, from the Chancellor ofthe Exchequer).—
l the Right Hon: Gentleman deny this statement?
iuv
old he deny that those Members had, some their
yhers, some their cousins, placed either in the Cus-
the Laud Tax, or the Distribution of Stamps?
t ,imear hear.)—Could the Right Hon. Gentleman
„toy that he hims-lf received daily applications from
those who were c., led independent Members of this
House, for emplr% 'cents for some of their friends in
. owe departments ?—( Hear, hear.) Could he deny
tat the Treasury was daily assailed by men who
~ vent, as they themelves expressed it, " in pursuit
**their property ?•'—(Lereghter.) He knew the fact—
o* was living amongst them—he knew that the fe-
llatio of nine out of ten of those Members who
tailed themselves independent, lived upon the taxes !
ilt could not be denied. Those, then, were the two
ciesciptions of Members who called themselves " in-
eependent," but whose. families were quartered on
the taxes, who prevented every attempt at Reform.
When he considered this state of the House, he was
nee only not surprised at the majorities which Minis-
ters had, but he was astonished that his friends were
able to make so good a fight as they did (Heat, hear).
Here, then, was a grievance which, he contended,
ought to be taken into consideration before they
Ranted one shilling of the Supplies. He trusted that
the subject would excite the attention of his Right
.:Honourable Friend (Mr. Tierney), and that he would
lend his great experience- and high authority to the
introduction of a Bill for the purpose of limiting the
number of placemen in this House, and to prevent
more of them from sitting there than was necessary
to the interests of the public service. By dcing so,
he would confer the greatest possible benefit on his
country. There was another Honourable Friend of
his, who, he hoped, would forward the object he had
in view, by fallowing up the intention which he ex-
pressed last year, of introducing a new and more eco-
nomical system of collecting the Taxes (Hear, Hear.)
By the adoption of that measure a great saving would
be produced. He was confident that out of the four
millions now expended in the collection of taxes, they
might effect a saving of at least one million, and se-
cure the remainder from coming under the rapacious
grasp of Members of Parliament (Year, hear). Was
it not monstrous, that when the People were pressed
down to the ground by taxes—that when the higher
•rder of land-owners talked of taxing the Funds—
that this species rd. Reform, so manifest and so pro.
ductive, should be resisted by any set of men?—
(Hear, hear). This was a kind of Reform so impe-
riously called for, that he hoped his Right Honour-
able Friend would at once give the sanction of his'
au'hority to it. If they had only the real iudepen-
dent Members of the House to contend with, exclud-
ing the seventy-two placemen, and those whose fa-
milies lived on the.taxes, he had no doubt that they
might advance far in the work of Reform. He did
not wish to hold out any delusive prospects to the
country ; but he believed he might safely state, from
the little he knew, and from what he had beard from
others who knew, much more than he did, that in the
different branches of the Revenue a saving of four
.millions might be effected by retrenchment (Wear.)
That saving might, of course, be applied to the re-
duction of taxes to that amount. But it would not
end here: not only this saving of four millions might
be effected, but it would afford a prospect of future
retrenchment, and of union with the People; because
they would then see a determination on the part of
the House to reduce the taxes (Hear, hear). He
would not. now go farther with this subject; but a
proposition having been made for a sum, though it
was never so small, he was determined to divide the
Committee upon it; and be would continue to do so
mud the Government and the House were impressed
with the necessity of attending to the subject (Hear).
TheCHANCLLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
the House had 'a
right, lay the Speech from the
Throne, to look for a considerable diminution in the
expenditure, and they should not be disappointed.
Though the saving would not be to the amount stated
by the Honourable Gentleman, yet a saving of a mil-
lion would be found to have taken place in the present
year—(Hear). In the management of the Revenue,
also,under the recommendation of the Commissioners,
a saving of £130,000 annually had been effected.
Colonel DAVIES was happy that a saving had
been made, though not to the extent that might have
been wished; but he could vote no Supplies till the
'Estimates should be laid on the table—(Hear, hear).
In the last Session of Parliament, though the House
had met in November, the Army Estimates, to the
'amount of ten millions, had not been submitted to the
House till the middle of May. He should be glad to
knew how much of the million would be saved out
of the Army expenses, and what had been done for
the suppression of smuggling ?
Mr. LOCKHART was aware that the mode pro,
posed by the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Cieevey)
was not usual; but, after the statement made last
night, the House could not be called on to vote from
; trust and confidence. It had been justly stated by a
Noble Lord, that no breach should be made in the
, national faith. Nothing could be looked to but eco.
, poesy on the pan of Ministers--(yeer, hear). He
6 had no doubt that the taxes were imposed and col-
,, ktted legally ; but the question was, were they tol-
-1 hated equitably? They had been Imposed in monies
o numbered, and it was always meant that enough
e should be left to suppoft the parties taxed. On ac-
s taunt of the depreciation of mosey, an increase of
i salary was granted to different Public Functionaries,
t and to the Members of the Royal Family; but now
4 that things had come back to the level of what they
4 were thirty years ago, no retrenchment had been made
at in favour of the People. He did not wish to disturb
r,
the Fundholder in the receipt of his dividends; but
le lap injery could arise from equal taxation. In the Ro-
ll tam history, one class had been so oppressed by
b. wary, that they abandoned the city. He wished the
a. Government to attend to economy, and to chew the
a People that they were interested in their welfare. As
at 6 diminution of expenses had taken place in the price
of the ' I ante es of life, a corresponding retrenchment
R "Zit to be made.
Mr. HUME would enter his protest against the
s•
A .I°..a"Pn tesentatiost of the speech of the Member for
to 1, nton (Mr. Baring). The object of the Right Hon.
at _ butlearell was to coatiuue the tax on malt as well