Star.
London, England, 1803-07-05 00:00:00

3

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&AR LLIMENT4fitr PROCEEDIsGS.

xousr OP LORDS, MONDAY, JULY 4.

agnslol

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Ceunfel Was h nrd in the Appeal Bethute anal hlackreth. •The
farther confideration pokoned.
Several hills were brought up from the Commons, which were
read a fira time.

The Royal Affent was given by Commlffion to faveral public
and private Bil t ; among whieh were the Tonnage Duty Bill, the
finhakern OB:ers Bad° he B Hirst Oath Bill, the Highland Canal
Bill, and the health Waiters to the Signet Widows Relief Silt—.
'The Commiffirmers were, the Lard Chancellor, Lords Ahranley
and Willingham.
'fist Scotch Additional Form Bill was committed.
♦RMY OF RIFSIRIM

Lnrd Hor ART moved the Order of the Day for the
Houle refolving itfelf into a Committee on the Army
of Referve Bill. In the Committee.

Lord SUFFOLK had no intention of putting any
delay in the way of the Bill at prefent, as it was an
objea of In great importance that difpatch should be
made. He willed, however, as a military man, to
fay fomething refpcling the (late of the country, and
what he conceived to be the belt plan of military de.
fence. This might be extremely ufeful to the Mini-
flry, and a difctalion on that fubjeft might enable
them to form more adequate conceptions of the de-
fence which the country required, and therefore
would be worthy of their deka attention, efpecially
as there was hardly a military man in the Cabinet.—
lie wifhed therefore to know at whin period it might
be in order for him to date his opinions on the fabled
of defence?

Lord WMAINGRaII replied, that it would be out
of order to enter upon any fuck difeuifion at pretest,
and therefore the Noble Lord would pollpone any
tiling that he had to fay on the principle of the Bill
till another tiage.
The different claisfes were then read, till the Clerks
came to that one which renders it lawful that MA.
fates Otould be provided by th9fe who might be bal.
lotted, when

The Duke of Comae LAND role, and expreffed his
difapprobation of any thing that fhould go to throw
any delay in the way of the Bill ; and trolled that
any intentions of contributing to that delay would
not be imputed to him. He praifed the energy which
the Mini flry had difplayed on the prefent oceation ;
and to the principles of the Bill he thought there
could be no objeflion, fo far as it went. He regret-
ted that, inflead of 50,000, the Bill did not gn to
raife t 00,000, which he was perfuaded might be done,
eonlidering the martial ardour that at this moment
exifted in the country. He confidered the militia,
upon the priociple of which the prefent meafure was
founded, as the conftitutional force of the country.
Their were three defcriptions of men mentioned in
the Bill, Volunteers, Balloted Men, and Subnitutes.
The amendment which he meant to propofe related
to the lalk mentioned daft. No man could be more
*eerie than he to the praftice of employing force to
compel foreign fervice. For the defence of home,
Government had a right to call nut, upon emergency,
every man capable of beating arms. To apply the
fame principle to foreign fervice, would be certainly en-
croaching too m uch u post the feelings of Britifh fubjeds.
But with regard to fubftitutes, a material difference
seined with refpeft to them and the balloted men.
They were properly perfons who were paid for their
Cervices in the fame way as recruits fur the regular
troops, and with regard to them, little delicacy with
rept& to the li*tits of their fervices was required.—
He therefore wilhed, that the fervices of fubftitutes
&mild be extended to any part where his Majefty
might plezfe to order them. This alto would be the
means of affording an equal chance to the recruiting
fervice for the line, daring the period that the Army
of Referve was railing. His Highnefs then entered
into an animated eulogium on the fpirit of his coun-
trymen. Hedefcribed the fuperior efficacy that muff
attach to the troops of the Line in every &nation,
and the great importance that mull be afcribed to
any plan that tended to conwibute to the augmenta-
tion of that force. At the fame time he declared his
high refpea for the Militia and Volunteer Corps. He
concluded by moving that a claufe to the cleft that
envy perfon who came into the Army of Referve as
a fubilitute fhould be liable to ferve during the war
and fix months after, in any place to which his Ida-
jetty might fee fit to fend him.
Lord HOBART would not trefpars npon the atten-
tion of the Houfe, by entering upon the principle of
the Bill at that time. It was much the fame as what
he formerly Rated to the Houle to be in contempla-
tion of Government. Witirrelpeß to the amendment
of the Noble Duke, he was forry that he could not
agiee to it. In his apprehenfion, it would go to
alter the principle of the Bill, which was to provide
a force, immediately, for the home defence, and not
for foreir.n fervice. To render fubftitutes liable to
foreign tervice, would increafe the expence of thofe
individuals who fhould be obliged to procure them.
Arrangements were made, by which this force fhould
be added to the regular regiments, and no doubt a
great many would voluntarily enter into the regular
ferrite, for which every opportunity and encourage•
silent was held out to them. To adopt the propoti-
tion of the Noble Duke, would go materially to in-
mate the difficulty of railing thin force for home
defence, and might confiderably retard the execution
of the meafure. A balloted man might only he
•Liable to procure a perfon to do the duty which it
would be incumbent upon himfelf to perform, pro&
sided he chofe to ferve perfonally. He therefore
eoncluded by op ling the amendment.
Lcrd Mote* deprecated delay andiongharangues
on the precut meafure. The country required an
insmodiate force, and that the regiments of the line
Ihould be filled up fame way or another. • 'He dif.
played the advantages that would refolt from having
• dirporable force, in order to oblige the enemy to
attend foinewhat to their own defence, inftead of
taming their whole force and attention to the invafion
of this country. He knew one brigade, confining of
four regiments, which altogether could fcarcely Ming
into the field 6no men.—Several other regiments
were *Jason fkeletons. The Noble Secretary of State
had anted. that arrangements were made, by which
the new sailed troops (humid he incorporated with the
=of the line. The drat of that would be to
all tl•efe at home. or if a regiment was. or-
dered abroad, the new troop. nuift be turned over to
foam other regiment, and the vacancy filled up by
ira/sing. He civet:cited that mode of proceeding,
wlsieli was calculated to weaken the energy of ,the
user. be bards thgfeeliossAd the tolsiieta Tt wee
O ' tO, ifitekto be 11.1 recolufs to, c;.
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T ' • - • '
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eept in the laR emergency. There was a 'wide dif-
ference between the flatement of the Noble Secretary
of State on a former occafion and the preterit mea.
furs. As the propoiltion of the Noble Duke went
to remedy many of the inconveniences that attached
to the prefent Bill, he fliould vote for it. The im-
portance of the fubjea would, he hoped, be his ex-
cure for trefpaffing thus long pn the attention of the
Houfe.

Lend MULGRAVR oppofed the amendment, im-
poring an unjua and partial taxation upon thole in-
dividuals who Gould be balloted for the army of
rcferve. The prefent 101, confidering it as a part of
a plan, did every thing that could be expetted for a
meafure that required difpatch. He aim oppofed the
amendment, on account of the difficulties it would
occafion in railing the troops. There was a line
drawn between foreign fcrvice and home defence,
which could not without danger be paired ; and he
agrled that the Noble Duke's amendment would go
to deßroy the principle of the bill. He thought that
this plan was an excellent one for recruiting the re-
giments of the line, and he was jußified in this opi-
nion by what had taken place with refpeet to the
Militia, from which 40,000 men had been obtained
during the laft war. He advifed, that for Come time
the old regiments Gould be filled up with the new
railed troops, on account of the dilcipline that thus
would be in a fhort time acquired by the latter
Upon the whole he coafidered the prefent as the bell
meafure that could be adopted. There were many
parts of the bill to which he in another fituation
would be difpofed to objea ; but feeling the neceffity
which at this moment exifted for difpatch, he would
conclude with negativing the amendment.
Lord HOBART explained.
Lord CARLIRLI was fenfible of the neeeEty cf
difpatch. Here they fat, he obferved, in the begin.
ning of July, deliberating upon a fyftem of defence,
when we might every moment eared to hear that
our enemies were at lea. In the month of Novem-
ber Minifters mutt have conjeftured that the difenf-
fions would end in a rupture—then a plan of defence
might have been organized. It might have been
done when the Houk received his Majefly's Mefrage
relative to the French armaments. It ought to have
been done when war was declared. A defence of
fome fort was, however, neceffary; and he would
fay nothing more. lea he ihould throw improper de-
lay in the way of the meafure.
Lord GROSVENOR was entering with confiderable
warmth upon the defence of the bliniftry againft the
attacks of the lift fpeaker, when he was called to or•
der by Lord Mulgrave, between whom, Lords Car-
lifle, Grofvenor, Lowther, Camden, and the Lord
Chancellor, a eonverfation of ionic length took place
on the point of order. Lord Grofvenor agreed at laft
to pottpone his obfervations to another Rage.
The Duke of CUMBFRLAND agreed to withdraw
his amendment, and upon the queftion whether it
ihould be withdrawn?

Lord SPINCER would not at this moment flay to
inquire by what means the country was reduced to
its prefent Rate of emergency : but taking that faa
as undeniable, he certainly would not but agree with
the Noble Secretary (Lord Pelham), that infant
means of Pelf-defence were abfolutely neccifary. He
himfelf, tinder any other circumilances of the coun-
try, fbould, doubdcfs, feel much rcluaance to a mea-
lure of this nature He had many objeaions to the
provifion of the Bill, but thole being of Leifer import
than the taking of immediate meafures of national
defence, he fhould, on this occafion, altogether de-
cline entering into them. He was.one of thofe who
not thinking lightly of the Militia, yct thought a re-
gular army the molt adequate and proper military
eflablifbment even with a view to the very purpofes'
of felf-defence. He perceived there was a provifion
in the Bill enabling the men to enter into die regular
army. Although effeaual means might have been
taken, fuch, in his opinion, was the extreme urgency
of the prefent moment, that he would not bring
himfclf to hate objetlions that might tend to impede
a meafure of fuch over-ruling necethty as an imme-
diate increafe cf our military force.

Lord Mu Loma Paid a few words in favour of the
meafure.

Lord D was proceeding to give his opinion
on the principle of the Bill, whea he was called to
order by
The LORD Cuancst.toa, who, after noticing the
irregularity of difeuEng the principle of the bill in a
Committee, obferved, that it might in future become
a queftion whether any order of that Houfe (hould
be obferved. This called up Lord HOBART, and
produced a (port converfation on the <lgnition of or-
der and the prattice of that Houfe, between his Lord.
(hip, the Lord Chancellor, Lord Darnley, and Lord
Mulgrave.
The queltion was then put, and the amendment of
the Dake of Cumberland was withdrawn.

Lord Waesimotrara then proceeded to Rate the
queßion on the original claufe.
Lord Se rectee prefented birofelf and raid, he wifh•
ed dillinQly to be informed whether this was mill-
deved as a maitre tending' merely to increafe the
military force of the country, or as one calculated to
its defence in the prefent Rate of unexampled emer.
gencr ? for if he was to confider it in the latter point
of view. be bad many objeftions to its principle,
which, if not efleemed out of order, he fhould now
fubmit to their Lordfirips' confederation.
Lord Mona, as to the claufe tha: went to prevent
Government accepting the Cervices of the troops rail-
ed under this bill, thferved, that he could not diko-
Ter the ufe of fucks a prohibition. Many opportuni-
ties might occur of affailing the enemy on their own
flicres, to which the fpirit and alacrity of thefe troops
might prompt them to volunteer ; why therefore, if
fo inclined. fhould Government debar Will from the
poflibility of accepting their patriotic and loyal offers?
• Lord Hosaar fai that this provifion was adopt.
ed to encourage men to enter thefe corps under an
affurance that they as colt would not exceed the
bounds of prefcribed Cervices. It was true, if indivi.
duals chore, they might enter into other corps, whole
Cervices were not limited. This. it was conceived,
would anfwer every purpofe of general fcrvice, yet
occafion a more ready entering into the Army of
Referve.

. No an(wer being given, Lo►d WALSIIIOIFAIS put
the Tani,* on the original claufe r which being
carried, the Bill was reported, and ordered to be read
a third time to-n3oarow •

Lord Muagarrt after a Sort introduftion moved,
that the itAnding order ut the Houk, preventing

sm bciog reed two Asses io one day bi dirpented
with. _
The Loan Csanciat.os and Lewd Gansuanna feed
a few words nn this fubjcSt, when the motion was
agreed to—The Houle then Adjourned.