Star.
London, England, 1816-05-22 00:00:00

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is shot out—so also tire military' profession there is
nprn to the Cacholles to a cenain extent, while here,
if_a Catholic wishes to enter the army, he rifest first
Xross gt.,George's Channel, he must obtain 'a COM•
Mission make Irien'establishment, and then be .be-
. cornes=ilto AA to the rank of Colonel. What
sense,i such in anomaly ? And what seine
thertsin the testriction which prevents even an Irish
Catheilic or an English, Catholic obtaining a Commis-
:iion (nether Irish Establishment, from rising above
the rank of Colonel t The whole army is under the
• controul of a Protestant Parliament anctis Protestant
Monarch. In Ireland, where the Army is entirely
Catholic,, several regiments may be combined at the
discretion of the Crown,-and the Officer cernmand-
.• iag them being only. a Colonel, may be a Catholic.
A Colonel on the Staff may also beta Catholic—and
yet there are persons who continue to think that it
tins Colonel were advanced a step, if he were made
a General, the whole state and safety of the country
would be hazarded. Sir, these are disgraceful and
dangerous blemishes in otir Constitution. Their only
tendency is materially to diminish our national
strargth. We have now terminated the severe,
struggle in which we wereso long engaged, we are
at leisure to adjust and regulate oar domestic lineal
revs, and I trust we shall revise and,erase this code
of weak and injurious policy. I hold in my hand a
Petition, the nature of which I have described, froln
persons whose characters are as well known as they
are irreproachable. There lies on your table a Peti-
tion presented by my Right Honourable Friend from
he great body of Catholics in Ireland, from men
eminent for their lOyalty, from men of large property
and extensive influence, who have couched their ap-
• plication to this House in terms that cannot fail to
make a favourable impression, echo have urged their
claims with a temper calculated to insure their attain-
snent—(Hear, Aear).—Sir, I trust that Parliament
will not I,e turned•aside from the consideration of the
wishes of these retitioners by that irritatioti which
has been here and there manifested on the subject in
treland—that they will not be deterred from doing
justice by any seditious passages in pamphlets, or
- false statements in newspapers, or intemperate ex-
pressions in speeches made under the' influence of
warm feelings, or in some cases, perhaps, by persons
actuated by a wish to obstrUct, for their own pur-
poses, the attainment of the object for which they
professed to be solicitous—(Hcar, hear.)—.This at
least I hope will be considered—that in our present
position we cannot remain. Backward or forward
we must go. There are boe three courses of policy
possible to recommend with respect to this subject.—
The first, which I presume no person here is dis-
posed to advise, is to retread our steps, to re-enact
the penal laws which. we have abrogated, to deprive
the Irish Catholic of his 'prbperty, of his education,
of his religion, tO grind him ivith the full weight of
tyrannical power. The "recat which appeais to me
quite as impracticable and visionary, is to stay where
we are, and to close the question. To close the
question, Sir, you may as well talk of stopping the
tides„or teaistingethe laws of gravitation or interfering
with effect in any other of the great operations ,of
nature—Vicar, hear, /sear.) Is it possible that any
one can imagine that when you have raised ti man in
the rank and estimation of society—when you have,
given him property—when you have contented upon
him rights—when you have opened to him (to a cer-
tain extent at least) prospects which be never before
enjoyed—is it possible to imagine that a man, feel-
ing the spirit of emulation which PXOVIDUICE has
wisely implanted in the breast of every human being,
for the benefit of the community—is it possible to
imagine that he could be induced tamely to relin-
quish the advantages which he has obtained 1—
(1-lesr, hear, hear.) If so unnatural an apathy were
to be exhibited, it would indicate a most disordered
state of the human faculties. There is yet to be
considered a third course of policy to go on. The
two great objections to 'archer concessions no longer
exist. The one was the temporal power of the Pope.
Of that who now entertains any apprehension ? The
other was the danger of a disputed succession. That
died with the Pretender. And as to guards, have
we'not them in abundance I—Have we not a Protes-
tant Crown and a Protestant Succession I—Have we
not a Protestant House of Lords and a Protestant
House of Commons—secure from all risk of Catho-
lic influence I—Are not the great, bulwarks of our
establishment unassailable ? Is not our venerable
Church defended by a Clergy powerful in their.ta-
lents, powerful in their education, powerful in those
family connexions by which they are attachedto all
that is respectable its the empire ? Weigh the remote
and contingent danger which some persons appre-
hend from concessions to the Catholics, with the pa
this.- and immediate danger which must result from
rejecting their claims—with that ferment which will
be at work in the .very heart of the country—with
that fever which will prey upon your very vitals, dis-
turbing and destroying all the fu.ictions of the State;
aad when you have done this can you hesitate or ba-
lance between the two courses of proceeding ?—(l4ear,
hear, hear.) Sir, in saying this, I beg leave again
to guard myself from being supposed to imply that it
the measure of Catholic Emancipation were adopted,
sudden and complete trantanillity 'Would be the con-
sequence. - But this we know—tbat the refusal of
the Catholic claims is at present a great source of
agitation. 'lt is not, therefore, irrational to expect,
that if we remove a great pact Of the Muse of the
existing evil, a great part of, that evil will cease to
oust. Much, Sir, in human affairs and in human
policy, depends on the choice of the moment its
which any step of consequence is taken. We have
already lost many precious opportunities of setting
at rest this important question. We lost the oppor-
tunity,-which I shall ever regret, of doing so at the
Uninte Another opportunity now presents itself.—
AVe have arrived at the termination of along and
arduous contest—a contest which I have ever consi-
dered, and which I shall ever considerb to have been
wise and necessary. During its ,continuance great
sacrifices have been Made by every class of the com-
munity. Sir, it is not my own opinion only—it has
been the opinion of a great majority of this, and of
' former Houses of Parliamentit has been the opinion
of a great majority of the public—it has been the'
opinitra of the great body of the cc-Onion:l44rib;
lishment of the country, that in the lace severe and
protracted coaterst---4 contest, not for renown, but tot 1
Independence and sec,nrity—ea, contest for • the preset..
vision of our establishments generelly; and partial-
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lady for the iweeervatiou of thaw ecaeaiaatiestma;
lishments, of which ao matais a more .weetet and
cere friend,than !fryer*, although all desoiiptionv 41,1
persons have contributed to the success of the avipit,
struggle, yet that no person, haie wade greate44:
forts, or have shed their blood with more-prodigality
"than the Roman Catholic subjects of his Majesty—
(Hem, Bair.) Sir, the conjuncture has now arrived
when we ought to regard with the utmost attention
the state of the internal policy of the Empire. Wei
have peace abroad—we mug have peace at horn....
(Hear.) What we now give will be..given as s,
matter of favour—as the result of a wise policy—as
proceeding, if you please, from our magnanimity—
not as wrung from us by necessity or apprehension.
The Petitioners, give me leave to repeat, having
shared our burdens, having partaken of our clanger,
having contributed to our glory, are entitled to the'
enjoyment of our Constitution. They do not attempt
to dictate to Parliament the course which ought to
be pursued. AU they do is to request—to suppli-
cate this House to legislate for them t trusting, that
in according to diem their wishes, Parliamert will
impose no conditions incompatible with their reli-
gious, honest, and conscientious scruples.—(Lord
cheering froos all 'fart: If Me Howe.)
The Petition was then read and ordered to lie on
the Table.

IRISH CATHOLI4I6 1
Mr. G RATTAN observed, that his Right Hon.
Friend hid argued this question so justly, so wisely,
and with so much honour to himself and his country%
that he had really left him (Mr. Grattan) very litt
to say on the subject. He begged to return his best
thanks to the Howe for the extreme patience with
which on various occasions they had listened to the
repetition of his opinion's on the Catholic Claims.—
Again he had to intreat their candour, which wo u
again be fillowed by his gratitude. It bad been re-
peatedly urged in hostility to the claims of the Ca.
tholics, that those claims ought to be advanced with
mote temper, and that a greater attachment ought
to be exhibited to the existing institutions of the
country. It must he most satisfactory to'the House
to observe that the Catholics now grounded, their
hope of obtaining their liberties, or their rights, or
their claims, or by whatever name the concessions to
them were to be called, on evincing a disposition not
merely to acquiesce," btkt heartily to concur, not in
form only but in act, in such terms as that House
might think necessary for the preservation of the
Church Establishment, and of the Protestant succes-
sion to the Throste.—( Hear, hear.)—The known
wishes of that Howe could not indeed fail to make
a due impression on their minds; and having consi-
dered the whole subject, and the absolute necessity
of expressing their attachment, not to the Crown
only, ttut to the Protestant succession, the Catholics
of Ireland presented a Petition, from which he beg-
ged leave to read some eitracts.—[The Right Hon.
Gentleman here read several passages of the Catholic
Petition, the tendency of which was to express the
anxious wish of the Catholics, that the great measure
of Emancipation should take place, under such cir-
cumstances es might render it satisfactory and unob-
jectionable to all classes of his Majesty's subjects ;
inasmuch as, in their opinion, the chief benefit to be
derived from it would be the union in the bonds of
concord of .the various religious persuasions of the
Empire 1 and the removal of thdse jealousies and
apprehensions which at present prevented a cordial
co-operation for the public good. They also declared
it to be their duty to state, that they were ready to
subnlit and conform to any regulations not incompa.
tible with the principles of their religion, or threaten-
ing with danger its pure and permanent exercise;—
and that while they fully relied on the liberality and
justice of the Legislature, not to impose any condi-
tions inconsistent with their religious persuasions,
they were convinced . that an adjustment might take
place conciliatory to the Protestant mind, and at the
same time compatible with the principles of their
faith and discipline.]—This Petition was signed by
abate nine hundred persons, many of them of the
highest rank.—[Here the Clerk, by desire of Mr.
Grattan, read a number of the names, comprehend-
ing a large portion of the Irish Nobility.]—The
House had desired to have certain declarations on
the part of the Catholics, and the Catholics had given
him a Petition to present to the House, in which
those declarations were explicitly made. The. House
had exacted certain terms, and with those terms the
Catholics had complied. lie held is his hand a
letter, for the authenticity of which he could vouch,
directed by the Pope to be written•by Cardinal Litta
to Dr. Poynter, touching the conditioni with which
the Legislature of this country wished to accompany
any concession to the Catholics. The letter set forth
the forms of these oaths, which were very little diffe-
rent from those at present taken by the Catholics of
Ireland; and though the oath which was to be
taken by the Bishop was'thought in itself a sufficient
security, yet his Holiness did not hesitate to permit
those to whom it appertained to make out a list of
the candidates for a Bishoprick, which lig was to be
presented to the Yiug's Ministers, in order that if any
one of such candidates were disliked Of suspected, his
name ow be expunged from it. The letter went
further and said, that as soon =Jim British Gov -
meat shall promulgate Emancipation to tbo-Catho-
lics, his Hminess will send a brief to the Roman Ca.
tholic Bishops to the above effect, and publish to the
universe his grateful seDse of the generosity and cle-
mency of the British Government, and finally.permit
the Bishops to observe what was before stated with
regard to the oaths and to the mode of 'elections.—
(Hear, hear.)—Here then (continued Mr. Grimm),
upon the granting of Emancipation, was that power
given to the Crown, which had been so frequently
demanded as its conditiOn. He (Mr. Grattau) had
been often, on former occasions, asked what plan did
he bring, in order that Emancipation should be
granted :+ What plan could he propose for the secu-
rity of the Protestant Religion,- as by law establish-
ed ? In order to be able to ans*er such question on
the present occasion, he had, with a great deal of
pains, possessed himself of good information on the
subject. He was acquainted, through a most authen.
tic channel, with the sentiments of the Pope on the
great question, and the Pope had expressed himself,
that if Emancipation was now withheld,thefault was
not his. He (the Pope) bad very fairly said—g‘ why
will the Parliament nut slegidate for the Catholics ?
Lam not indisposed to withhold my essistatece."-
-If then; he (Mr. Grattan) was asked on the pre.
amt occasions whose ire roar murk ies t , as would

seq..--. 91 Here are my tortes, they 01* the
hole you wished heretofore to grant Emancipation..
psi if you Dori-refuse' them you refose what you t°
anxiously sought for, and considered as enmities."
hear).—He would ask the House he./ many
petitions had' been presented to them this Session
against the claims of the Catholics ? He wished to
have all or.any of such Petitions read. None could
be read. None had been presented, What then
was the inference ? That the great body of the Pro-
testants were not inimical to the claims of theitCa-
tbolic brethren. tie would not go so far as to say
that there were not many Protestants who still op-
posed Catholic Emancipation, but it would not be
presuming too much in him to suppose, that where
so many Petitions had been presented on a former
occasion, all or most of which were against Emanci-
pation conditionally, and none on the present, there
did not exist any general opposition to it in the minds
of the Protestants. There then was no general pre-
judice to'sontend against on the part of the Protes-
tants, audehere was sufficient authority to shew that
they could.legislate in respect of concessions for the
Catholics. The Cktholic Bishops had, in 1799,
agreed to certain Resolutions, which declared that
the cuncessions which were then, and have been,since
demanded, were not bottle to the discipline of the
Church. The Pope himself not only declares that
such concessions may be granted, but has actually
granted them, provided the Catholics beemancipated.
This, theu, would, be one good effect of the Core.'
Mime for which he intended ice move—it woad
w to some of the Catholics, that those concessions
• which they objected were net only not against
the discipline of the Church, but accordant with
its practice. He would not take up the tune of
the House by mentioning in detail the grievances
which at present affected Ireland. They might be
classed under a very few heads. She had commer-
cial and financial difficulties; but a great deal of
her present misfortunes might be traced to religions
animosities. The causes of the other evils of Ireland
'nista be removed with perhaps little difficulty.--
But it would not be easy to remove many of the evils
which arose from religious distinctions, and the effect
of the penal code, without a particular investigation.
To this inquiry he called the House • by it they would
reduce those who made religons differences a pretext
for disturbance to a mere banditti, because the re-
moval of that pretext would be the result of the in.
quiry ; and having no foreign Power to aid them in
their wish for disturbance, they would die from jeju.
nity: If the result of the inquiry which the House
might enter into, did not satisfy some of the Catho-
lics, it should se recollected that the duty of the
House was to serve, not to satisfy them, and if they
succeeded in the former, he trusted they would have
firmness and spirit sufficient to act upon that conduct
which justice and duty ehould point out. Most of the
evils which at present affected Ireland were not to be
attributed the system pursued by one or another
Chief Governor. He by no means wished to attri-
bute them to snch cause. The fault lay in the law,
which obliged the Government of Ireland to act with
a ansrlred partiality to one sect.—(fliar, hear, hear.)
Uitil this defect in the lair was remedied, it would
be impossible for any Chief Governor of Ireland to
act impartially. The fault, then, of the misgovern.
atop of Ireland as far as its government,was ef.
tested by the operation of the penal side, rested
with Parliament, who had it in their power to re-
peal that code. Almost all the evils which af-
fected Ireland, whether they originated in this code
or not, were fostered and fomented by it. The
United Irishmen had not originated in religious
animosities, but their disturbances bad at length
turned into that disordered channel. Thou it ever
would be. There was something radically bad in the
laws,and as long as it was not remedied, so long would
it continue to be the nurse of every evil which arose
in the State, whether originating with itself or not.
A sore on the finger may, though in itself not very
dangerous, be turned to mortality. It was the same
in the body politic : malt evils may thus become the
channels through which great miseries might flow
on the State.—(lfeer, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman
then contended, that it was essential to the security of
the empire, that the evils which existed in any part
of it should be traced to their source, in order to pre-
vent their spreading, or being the causes of others as
pernicious as themselves. He observed, that the so-
cieties of Orangemen, which caused so much disaf-
fection between Protestant and Catholic in Ireland,
had arisen from the effects of the penal code. Ano-
ther evil which arose from it was that the people of
Ireland, he meant the Catholic population, were not
identified with' the law. The advantage of that iden-
tification would be to unite all in defence and support
of privileges which all equally enjoyed, but this ad-
vantage, which was contemplated by the Unica, was
lost by the continued existence of partial laws, which.
while they obliged the Catholic to defend the Coosti-'
tution, gave him little or no share in the privileges of
that Constitution. It was in tam then to expect that
while such partiality existed the great body of the
Catholics could be identified with the laws. So long
as this code of la-ws remained unrepealed, so long
would there exist in the State a large body of merki
of whom the Goiernmetit must necessarily be
afraid, and to overawe whom it would be necessary
to support a large standing army. (Hear, hear, hear.
This was a necessary consequence of the penal code,
and not its least obnoxious one, as it tended to draw
on a military Government. It was trite the soldiers
so employed may not be badly disposed, but as long
as the soldiers in any country exceeded a fair propor-
tion of the population, so long is the liberty of the in-
habitants held, not by the law, but by the clemency
of the army=-( Hear, hear.) He bad every respect
for the army, he applauded them for their unparal-
leled victories and for their strict discipline ; but still
he could never consent that British subjects should
bold their liberties at-their pleasure—( Hear, hear.)—
He-did not mean to say that the support of a large
standing army was the intention of the continuance
of the Penal Code, but suck was its effects. It was
nmessary that this army should be kept in order to
'keep down a proscribed people. It was also neces-
airy that this army should be paid at a vast expense,
,to the country; and for what was all this expense
.and this risk of a military Government incurred ?
To keep such men as the Duke of Norfolk or the
Earl of Fingal out of Parliament, lest if they-got a
`seat there they should-seek by reasonable consprra-
Cies to overture the Constitution. But why should
or any • other Catholic Noblemen seek to over-
.

'him die

participation
disposed, -
applying
were in pe;
then to the
was ridicr

he had,

this we were

to prevenl
would not
Yet these
upon to

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Coustitutlots when they were aritnitiei Mt
o.i
Won of its privileges ? or, if they ire*: " FIOP
I, how could they effect it ? Would it lift. ,bee
to France ? No. To Spain ?N. i lisit
peace and amity with those Powerr. Itti,, isli
:he Pope they would apply ? Such se
i,i'l 04
culous. The Pope had not the power,
ilst No
was he disposed to exert it. Yet it wast,l, bill were obliged to keep rp a large etandiny irk PIT
nt a few Noblemen from doing that 9htehd:7 by
of do if they could, and could not if they te(l4;. • who
4 were the idle fears for which we were cello Tat
make such sacrifices. He begged leate ti cg t the empire, according to the admissiondatlN
less was at present in a state of great spk, Me
We had made great adeitions to it by co, INN
MCI it required large standing amiss to kt,p
aquests. Why then - should we add lathe ei i
4110
of our troops, in order to keep a part or
ct
übjects as aliens in theirnatmecoantry ? Suy •A
was most absurd and impolitic, and toldell as
_.._.
to reduce the serene)) of the pm..:... ..