Star.
London, England, 1810-01-26 00:00:00

AMERICA.

Mr. WHITBREAD gave notice that he should,
on Monday next, if there was time for it, move for
the production of certain papers relative to the nego-
ciation between Mr. Erskine and the American Go-
vernment. He meant in particular to move for the
production of a certain letter from Mr. Erskine to
Mr. Canning, and could not anticipate any danger to
the public service from the production of the docu-
ments for which he intended to move.
Mr. MORRIS felt so much personal interest in a'
transaction touching so materially his Honourable
relative (Mr. Erskine) that he begged permission of
the House to make a few observations. It had been
correctly stated, that the dispatch of the 23d of Janu-
ary last was the one from this country containing the
express conditions upon which the Government were
content to give up the Orders of Council as respecting
America. Although this was undoubtedly the fact,
yet his Honourable relation had conceived himself
justified in referring to the whole body of the instruc-
tions he had received, and in obtaining what he con-
ceived to be their spirit and meaning substantially,
although not according to the exact letter of them.
The case of his Honourable relation would certainly
have come before the House in a more favourable
point of view, if the whole of his instructions had
been stated ; and if Ministers should think that im-
prudent, from motives of general policy, he hoped
that they would be candid enough to admit such
parts as would be necessary for his defence. It ap-
peared from the correspondence of Mr. Erskine with
Mr. Smith, that the former Gentleman had shewn to
the American Ministers many letters of instruction
which were not now before the House. It was evi-
dently impossible that all the conditions mentioned in
the dispatch could have been obtained according to
the letter, as it would he contrary to the nature and
constitution of. the American Government for the
President to give that sort of pledge that was re-
quired. He should have a future opportunity of en-
tering into the question in detail, when it should be
regularly under discussion ; but he was anxious to ap-
prise the House now, that it was upon the spirit and
the substance of his instructions, and not upon the
letter, that the defence of Mr. Erskine would rest.
I.IIE ADDRESS.
Lord BERNARD then brought up the Report of
the Address.
Upon the question for its being received,
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT rose, and said, that
upon the first day of the Session he had been very
anxious to learn what effect the recent events had pro-1
duced on the minds of the Members of that .House,
and to hear the sentiments of the political men ex-
pressed upon them. He wished to know whether the,
interest of the public could be combined with the opi-
nions and the feelings of many distinguished speakers
in that assembly ; and it was with the utmost morti-
fication he perceived, that the unparalleled disasters
which we have lately suffered, and the unparalleled
waste of blood and treasure, had not made upon the
Members of that Assembly the impressions which
might naturally be expected. Ministers were still
supported by the same kind of majorities which they
commanded in times of less disaster : they were still
supported by the same men, and the same line of ar-
gument. Seeing this, he was the more thoroughly
convinced of the necessity there was of taking into
early consideration that great measure which he had
commended at the close of the late session. He
I.vas the more and more convinced of the absolute
and urgent necessity of Parliamentary Reform; from
the whole of his parliamentary experience since he
hfid obtained a scat in that room : but never had any
zircumstances occurred which gave more strength toy
these impressions than the circumstances under which',
Parliament had lately met. He did not mean to
compare the pretensions of one set of public men to
those of another ; but he never before witnessed in
aqy debate, the nirastres of any set of Ministers so
completely abandoned as they appeared to be in the
last debate. The Minister really seemed not to have
a word to say in his own defence. He had not, how.
ever, been able to collect, from what had been said
in the last debate, any thing that held out any views
of stich measures as would be necessary to unite the
public
at large with the Ministers of the Crown. He
had not heard any suggestions for pressing upon the
consideration of the Sovereign, the absolute necessity
of tracing to the source those calamities with which
the Country is now afflicted and oppressed. The
great root of all those evils and calamities was not
hard to be dicovered. The copious source of all our
foreign and domestic misfortunes and disgraces might
be found in the corrupt state of that Assembly. This
was not only the firm conviction of his mind, but it
was beyond a doubt that it was the fixed persuasion
of a vast majority of the people of this Cpuntry.—
I Tinier the circumstances of the present times, what
name could he given to that degree of imbecility and
folly which induced Ministers to advise his Majesty
to treat with contempt and insult the Petition and Ad.

hear, from many quarters)
antiquity, its wealth, and. great
State, had always been treated with the.
tendon by all former sovereigns. This distu.,
attention was due to the City of London, not less A.
its ancient privileges than from its real consequence
in the State. He could not conceive a more dignified
act in the Sovereign of the country, than to receive
upon his Throne the Address of such an important
city ; and he could not conceive any thing more
foolish than to advise his Majesty to enter into a strug-
gle against the privileges of the City of London. He
could not avoid recollecting with what attention the
City of London had always been treated by every So-
vereign, from William the Conqueror down to Wil-
liam the Third. The Convention Parliament even
had received its confirmation from the City of • Lon-
don. An Act of Parliament had recognized the pri-
vileges of the City of London, and enacted that
they should not be forfeited even by disuse ; and
yet his Majesty had now been advised to treat with con-
tempt the privileges of that great city, which were
sanctioned by antiquity, and respected by all for-
mer Monarchs, and which were in every point of
view of the first importance to the country at large.
—He trusted, however, that the different counties
of England would unite with the City of London
in this great question, which so materially af-
fected the privileges of the people, to make known
to the Sovereign their grievances and complaints
by Petitions and Addresses. It was an extraor-
dinary thing, that in a country where the Sove-
reign was not permitted even to stop a foot-path,
passing through a Royal Park (as in the case of
Richmond Park), his Ministers should assume to
themselves the power of obstructing the high road
which led the people to the Throne, and blocking up
every avenue by which the representations of his peo-
ple could reach the hands of their Sovereign. It
could not be asserted, that it would be fatigue to his
Majesty to receive the Addresses of the City, because
it was not expected of him to give any answer at the
time. All that was asked was, that the Petition
might be placed in his Royal hand. It did appear
to him, that the insult which Ministers had advised

city,

his Majesty to offer to the City of London, was only
a part of a general system to treat with contempt all
the privileges which belonged to the people, and all
the usages of respect which had hitherto been cus-
tomary. He could not avoid noticing that even some
slight had recently been shewn to the Gentlemen of
that Assembly. It had been customary formerly to
have the King's Speech read the night before at the
Cock-pit, and afterwards it was usual to send copies
of it to the different Members, that they might have
sufficient notice of what was to be the subject of dis-
cussion. This usage was now abandoned. There
was another subject which he could not forbear men-
tioning. In the last Session he had brought before
the consideration of that Assembly a most foul and
scandalous job, respecting the grant to an individual,
of certain lands in the immediate vicinity of Chelsea
I Hospital. He had supposed, that in consequence of
Ithe exposure, Ministers int, tided to abandon it ; and
he thought that by not pressing the subject farther
at that time, he had allowed Miuisters a decent re-
treat from what could not be considered otherwise
i C.:an as a most scandalous and disgusting job. He
1 now however found, that instead of abandoning it,
Ministers had confirmed it previous to the opening of
the present Session. What did Ministers mean by
this ? Did they imagine that they would by this
means avoid a further discussion'? If they did, they
were most grievously disappointed; for he certainly
should feel it his duty again to bring that question
forward. With respect to the Speech, which had
been delivered in his Majesty's name, it appeared to
Lim to be excessively defective in many points. He
thought that a Speech on the opening of Parlia-
ment should be, as in former times it used to be, a
review of the measures of his Majesty's Government,
submitted to the consideration of Parliament. It
ought not to be a mere milk and water production,
pledging the Government to nothing, and calculated
for no other object but to obtain a mere unmeaning
complimentary address without opposition. How
came it that the Speech mentioned nothing about
India ?—(Hear, hear.)—Was it that we are to be
told that we have nothing to do with India, as it is
governed by a Company, or something else, for their
own interests and not for the interests of this country ?
We, however, do find that disasters in India do affect
this country ; and of the late events there, it
must be allowed that it was very distressing to hear
that one body of British troops was sent to attack and
destroy another party. Events of this nature and
magnitude ought not to pass unnoticed in a Speech
at the beginning of a Session. He would wish to
know, why was that recommendation of a grant to
the poorer Clergy tacked to the Speech ? It appeared
to hint to proceed from the same source as the cry of
No Popery !—(Hear, hear.) He thought, however,
that it would well ecome the dignified and wealthy
Clergy to take care of their own poor—and he
would never consent to extort a single sixpence from
the hard hands of honest industry for such a purpose.
In comparison to the campaign which our enemy has
recently concluded, how contemptible was the cam-
paign which our Ministers had conducted ! We were
told that that most disastrous expedition to the Scheldt
was intended as a coup-dc-main; but it was managed
in such a manner that Bonaparte apprized his officer'
commanding in these parts, of our intended coup-de-
main, no less than three months before the sailing of
our expedition. He had lately read of the manner
in which the Noble Lord who planned the expedition
occupied himself about the time of its sailing, which
might perhaps make him forget the objects of it.—
The Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh) was most ac-
tively intent upon preventing a certain individual
from accompanying that expedition, which individual
(Mr. Finerty) might perhaps have given a true ac-
count of it. Now, amidst the important care of pre-
venting this individual from going to Walcheren, the
Noble Lord might haye forgotten the purpose for
which he sent the army there. Indeed, the very
transport in which that individual sailed appeared to
have been forgotten, although it contained articles of
great necessity to the meditated attack (we believe
that either Mr. Congreve's rockets or the entrenching
tools were here alluded to) ; and it was said by some
that the inaction of the army for 16 days was a. con-
sequence of this forgetfulness, There was an insinu-
ation in the Speech that the Expedition to Walcheren
had w part ;wended ; but it could hardly be espec.

iiiktrican; a most complete, disaetrous, and dis-
graceful failure. The. Expedition to Spilt was as
nearly destructive to our array as that of Holland.—
A dispute with America of a very serious nature had
been provoked by the imprudence of Ministers; .and
yet, notwithstanding all these misfortunes, and the
strange occurrences in India, Ministers.were support. '
ed with the same steadiness as if these measures had
been prosperous. He could feel no asperity in con-
sidering that circumstance, as it only served to con.
firm that opinion with which his mind was intimately
and strongly impressed, of the necessity of a total
change of system ; and, as the only means of ob-
taining such a change, a reform in the representation
of the people. He thought those Gentlemen wrong
who stopt short to compare the merits of one set of
Ministers with another. It was the whole system
that was wrong, and which ought to be altered. We
ought to look back to the system establishedin 1793.
The present calamitous war, and the oppressive
weight of our taxes, ought to be considered as only
the sequel and necessary consequence of that war
which, in 1793, was commenced in folly and injus-
tice. Parliament was then powerfully warned of
ill consequences which would result to this country
from plunging into that war - and yet, in obedience to
I the will of the Minister of that day, it despised that
warning. No imagination could, however, then sup-
pose, or no prophetic warning fortel the whole extent
of the mischief which the authors of that war were
bringing down upon the country. However it was the
custom of that Assembly to extol the character of the
Minister of that day (Mr. Pitt) he could never view him
lin any other light than as the greatest curse which the
country ever knew. He could not now, after 15 years
experience in that
_room, unlearn in one minute all
!those terrible lessons which were imprinted on his
mind during the Administration of Mr. Pitt. He
could not therefore bear to sit silent, when he heard

those who for many years bad, with great persever-
ance and ability, opposed the measures of that Mi-
nister, now, upon every occasion, take an opportu-
nity to extol his memory. Tbis oppressed and inju-
red people have even been forced to erect a monu-
ment to the memory of their great enemy. It ap-
peared to him, however, that there was no occasion
to have voted any particular monument to Mr. Pitt,
as he had himself ; as, by the faults of his Admini.
stration, he had erected an eternal monument to his
memory in the ruins of Europe, and the misfortunes
of his country. However he disapproved of this sort
of monument, there was another which he would ap-
prove of, and would be ready to subscribe for. He
would not object to have a monument of marble erec-
ted in the square before that House, and on one side
to have inscribed Magna Charta and the Bill of Rights;
And on the other side to have inscribed the many
violations of those sacred laws and principles of the
Constitution, which had taken place with the advice
and during the Administration of Mr. Pitt. To the
foot of such a monument, he should wish it was the
duty of the Speaker to conduct every new Member,
before he took his seat in that House. It was im-
possible now to go into any part of the country with-
out hearing the loudest complaints of the cruel and
oppressive system of taxation which now prevails. A
host of men, under the name of Surveyors, Assessors,
and what not, was now spread all over the country.
They were men who had an interest in making the
system oppressive ; and howevet unjust their sur-
charges might appear to be, they were never punish-
ed for that injustice and oppression. While such
things were allowed to go on, it was ridiculous to ex-
pect all men to be unanimous in supporting the pre-
sent Government. Every man was liable to penal-
ties, which might be recovered by a common infor-
mer, for neglecting to enter a servant, or for not en-
tering him by the right name. He himself knew a
Gentleman who omitted entering the name of a ser-
vant for whom be had paid, and was consequently
surcharged. He appealed and often attended on the
appeal when it could not be heard, and at last it was
heard at a time it was impossible for him to attend,
and was consequently given against him. He knew
that farmers were assessed over and over again for
dogs which they never kept ; but it was better for
them to submit to the imposition than to lose so much
of their time as would be consumed in attending
again and again at a place some miles distant from
their residence, to prosecute their appeals. These
evils were forcibly stated at the late meeting of Berk-
shire. He hoped the time would come when no
gentleman would consent to take the odious office of
Commissioner under the present system. The oppres-
sive means by which their money was screwed trom
the pockets of the people were quite too bad, when it
was considered with what shameful prodigality these
sums were afterwards lavished and wasted. The mul. 11
titude of acts which had been framed to regulate the
collection of this part of the revenue, had not made it
the less oppressive. When he recollected the situation
of this country 15 years ago, and how upon each suc-
cessive year that situation was, beyond all comparison,
worse than it had been in the year preceding, it called
forth the most painful sensations. He believed there
was not a single gentleman in the House who would
not, if it depended on him, most gladly exchange the
situation of the country at present, for its situation at
i any former period. If this was the fact, and the si-
tuation of the country was consequently growing worse
and worse, this regular deterioration must be to be
traced to some certain causes which produced
that effect. It was the duty of every body to trace
' those causes, when it was observed that no change
of Ministers produced any material change in
the fortunes of the country ; but that in all changes
of Administration, and whoever were the men in
office, whether wise or simple, still the same practical
effects followed from a perseverance in the old system.
How happy would we all conceive ourselves now if
we could but bring back things to the situation which
that' were in at the time the original dispute took
place about the opening of the Scheldt ! How happy
, I would we be, if we could bring back :France to what
I was the utmost extent of her ambition under her old
1 Monarchs,or in her Republican times—the boundaries
of the Rhine and the Alps ! How happy would we
Ithink it, if we could go back to the time before Bona-
parte resolved to make himself Master of the Spanish
' . Peninsula ! How happy if we could be brought back
to the period of the Peace of Amiens, or to the time
ethat Treaty
Treatytyonfa had beenlsepretences
signed,!The
1 beMlin°irsetewreubrondekr whom that i
and under whom it had been broken, had been since
elevasd to the Peerage ; but he believed that the

hosentr9rtsitierctieonwsasltvni'll'oa. t:h.c'cnonhlYla
to
ceuntryhad cause deeply to repent the break Tee re
plirea:*sincelnthalie yeart lc had
gal waste of the treasures ofthe country, but of
ts a
nour also. We had heard oft the last night, 4'14;4
laurel:v—er,(abnegexieparevessitocresaoyf, M
that r.
true iCanning,)
aue s
arHeesenr.
barren ; and if the Jarpsts now said- to be eb.•
were barren, blame must attach somewhere t
nisters had confessed that there was no Fault
found with the artily- in Spain ;
skill was displayed by the commanders, and co
mate courage by the troops. If such be the case,
blame ;oust alight upon them ;elves, for sending
an army to places where it was impossible to gait
important success. There were many other
grown up of late years destructive us the right
berties, and privileges of Englishmen. Of thee
would mention, as among the most dangerous to
liberties of the people,the building of barracks all
-the land—the occupying military stations—but, alb
all, the power which the Crown new assumedi;
troducing, at its pleasure, foreign mercenaries in
this country. But what sort of mercenaries vas
that were lately introduced ? The corps of the iv.
of Brunswick, which had been stigmatised bye,
Archduke Charles in his Genera] Orders previou,
the battle of Wagram. England wants no „,
defenders as these ! The next evil was, the p:,
tice of inflicting secret and solitary i ; anpi.sosiment.
a punishment for offences against the Govern:ll.
In all the inventions of despotic power, thee: lee.,
thing more odious, more dreadful to consider.
mare likely to break the spirit of men, than
period of solitary confinement. He could h.ir
conceive any thing more hurtful in the whole le
of despotism, and yet this was an evil which
now permitted to exist in this country. Conti& •
then the extent of our foreign calamities and r
graces, and of our domestic evils and oppressions,
did appear to him, that the insult lately offend
the City of London, in the exercise of the undodb.
right of Englishmen, and the privilege of that
and ancient city, ought to be felt by all the people
England, as an attack made by his Majesty's MI.
ters on all the remaining privileges which Engh
men can now claim. The City of London had,
the late instance, mit the voice of the people
England. and th the different cnnties
now to unite themselves in the same cause ; for it
King was never to be informed ef the grievances
his people, but through the polluted medium of
Ministers, who have an interest in stifling the
of the people, there could be no hopes of-their
vances being ever redressed. When it was consid
for what a great length of time this country had
ruled by a benevolent Sovereign, whose reign
constantly unfortunate—who was every succes
year of his long reign, compelled to regret the
cessity of imposing fresh burdens upon his poop
some would attribute this to the influence of a
lignant star, which prevailed at the period
his accession ; it was not however necessary
the Members of that Assembly to look to
stars, but only to themselves. • It was there,.
on the floor of that room, that he saw the organ
causes of all the calamities and evils which affie
and oppressed this country—it was there he saw
tree, under whose shade no-salutary ?last wo
thrive. The fruits of that tree were bitterness
grief to the People of England. He hied
drority for saying, that it was fair to judge of
tree by the fruit; and " that the tree which ,
not good fruit should be hewn down." It was
corruption which struck its root in that room and
sembly which had brought, and which continued
bring, so many evils upon the country. It was
which destroyed our national honour abroad, by i
interference with our army and navy. The princip
being once established, that the Minister must get
some means or other a majcrity in that House,
the cause that our honour was surrendered to the
my, and our people oppressed by the load of we
This corruption, which was the cause of all our
fortunes, he should constantly oppose. It had
formerly urged by a Roman Senator, in every ..
cussion, that Carthage must be destroyed."
saying had been sometimes applied by trance to
Country. He bad the same opinion of the nec
of Reform as the Roman Smarr had of the
struction of Carthage," and therefiere he must ag
and again recur to this topic, whenever the great
terests of the Country were discussed in that A
bly. It was to Parliamentary Reform that he look-
to remedy all our evils, and heal the sufferings of th.
injured people.
Mr. YORKE said, that before he proceeded
observe on the topics urged by the Honourable
ronet, he should request to call the attention of
House to the terms he used through the whole co..
of it. The Hon. Baronet had never addressed
alluded to them as the House of Clnamons; but
had always c illed that House " this Room," or"
Assembly," by which he would seem to infer,
they were not the Representatives of the People;
the Honourable Baronet had but one but-then to.
song, for I.e began and ended with the same posit'
that it was necessary to have a reform in Parham.
that was, he (Mr. Yorke) supposed, a system
change of Administration. He was, theretore,: -
rous to take that opie r.ur ity of sating h:s ob
to it ; and that was, that such a measure could onl
tend to make the British Constitution totally ditf*
to what it had ever been. The Honourable Barong
because it had generally been corsid...red the ell
debate on his Majesty's Speech, any Member hod:
right to speak in a very diffuse way, and enter el
various subjects, had thought fit to touch on aos
topics, not included in, or immediately inetclentl
the Speech, and had, therefore, introduced the It
bilee which had been generally observed rhrougbot
the country, in comthemoration of the b ng 2nd ml
.
reign of our beneficent Sovereign, in doing vied
he had said, that the Jubilee joy, as he was pleel
to term it, was forced down the thrlats of the re
ple. Now he (Mr. YOrke) believed in his heart•do,
he might fairly say, there never was an event wig
had happened in the country, wh ch had given rue
real satisfaction, or in which the ieople had ever.
spontaneously, so cheerfully. and so universally job
in the heartfelt expression of their joy and loyaltee
The Honourable Baronet had been pleased to 0
that the present Sovereign seemed to have entered
his reign under the influence of a malignant steeu..
that the progress of his reign had been marked n.:
blood. He, for his own part, was of quite aa'

content to give up tl
America. Althoug
yet his Honourable
justified in referring
tions he had receive
ceived to be their s
although not accorc
The case of his Ho
have come before t
point of view, if th
been stated ; and if
prudent, from moti
that they would be
parts as would be n
peared from the cor
Mr. Smith, that the
the American Mini
which were not nov
7.1 dently impossible th
the dispatch could 1
the letter, as it wool
constitution of. the
President to give I
quired. He should
tering into the cues
regularly under disc
prise the House noN
the substance of hi
letter, that the defe
Lord BERNAR
the Address.
Upon the questio
Sir FRANCIS I
upon the first day
anxicus to learn wh
duced on the minds
and to hear the sent
pressed upon them.
interest of the publi
nions and the feelin,
in that assembly ; a
fication he perceive
which we have WI
waste of blood and
Members of that
might naturally be
supported by the sa,
commanded in time
supported by the sal
gument. Seeing
convinced of the tit
early consideration
ecommended at tl
eras the more and
and urgent necessit:
the whole of his pa
had obtained a seat
circumstances occur
these impressions th
Parliament had la.
compare the preten!
those of another ; E
any debate, the
cimpletely abandur
last debate. The
a word to say in hi!
ever, been able to
in the last debate,
of such measures a
pu!)lic at large wit.]
bad not heard any
consideration of the
of tracing- to the so
the Country is no.
great root of all ti
hard to be di'c.cover
foreign and domest
be found in the cor
was not only the fit
was beyond a doub
of a vast majority 1
Under the circums
name could he give
folly which induce(
to treat with canter

61r.

ns,
ed
abtl

I bec
I‘.

y fa

Ibex
4i!

to thil
:essit
he d
wrai

!ookol
of this

Led to
de 13. t,
of dui
courg

;icd r
but by
r « th::
th 3:
anJ

, to laid

sent opinion • be should .say he came to the Throne
to wards the end of an unfortunate war, and soon
afterwards blessed the country by concluding a most
glorious peace. In the course of so long a period of
oe, the country had without doubt experienced
/natty disasters ; but. it must be allowed, and he be-
lieved it was so universally, that it was one of the
rose mild and benevolent that was ever known. The
Honourable Baronet had warmly expatiated on the
calamities of the country, and had appealed to va-
in which wc should now
rims antecedent situations,
think ourselves happy to be placed. He (Mr. Yorke)
should, for one, be glad to see some of the events
which had taken place blotted from the history of the
world. He should be happy, and it would be happy
for the world in general, if that monstrous and hor-
rible era of the French Revolution had never been
'mown, for to that was to be attributed all the mis-
fortunes which had since befallen, not only this coun-
try but all Europe. The Hon. Baronet had, in his
(gr. Yorke s) opinion, gone somewhat too far, when
to the observations he had thought proper to intro►
duce on the administration of an illustrious States-
ran, now no more, and his subsequent condemna-
tion of it, he had talked of the people's being com-
pelled to pay Mr. Pitt's debts, and to erect a monu.
vent to his memory. The fact was so much the re-
.„ Joe, that he believed it was only necessary to state
ati,oiment to refute it. Every one must remember
that no measure was ever more generally agreed to ;
and if he recollected the eircumsta'nces right, his great
political antagonist Mr. Fox, was one of those who
concurred in, and sanctioned it by his approval. The
Honourable Baronet always argued with ability, cool-
ness, and prudence, but he often so highly exagge-
rated ciwumstances, that he failed of making out
ES reposition. In what he had advanced respecting
the refusal to receive the Petition of the Corporation'
of the City of London, he set out by stating, that it'
was an insult to the City and Corporation, and that
Ministers were highly culpable for having advised it.
He could by no means see it in any such light. He
had ever spoken, and would always speak, of the
City of London in terms of the highest respect: He
thought their wealth, their loyalty, and general im-
portance, were deserving the encomium which the
Honourable Baronet had bestowed on them ; and
he therefore thought it was impossible his Right Ho-
uourable Friend near him could ever think of treating
them with insult, or any thing approaching towards
it. Nothing had been done oa the present, but what
bad occcurred on former occasions ; it was a mere
question of etiquette claimed by the Livery, but he
believed it was disputed, and had never been seriously
determined ; and he thought, therefore, that his Ho-
nourable Friends had acted right, as, in the present
state of the King's age and infirmities, it was impos-
sible for him to receive every petition on the Throne,
and he could not see what right the City of London
bad to that particular distincuon more than York,
Bristol, and other cities in the kingdien. The Hon.
Baronet had mentioned one circumstance to which he
begged to call the recollection of the House, and
which he would wish to be known to every indi-
vidual in the kingdom, as it spoke so strongly the
blessings we derived from our glorious Constitu-
tion. The Honourable Baronet had said that the
King, though surrounded with all his splendour,
could not stop up a footpath in his own Park i but
that this refusal to receive the Petition of the
City of. London on the Throne, was the stoppage
of the public high road to petitioning. This was so
isatravagant an exaggeration, that it was only necessary
to mention the Hon. Baronet's statement, in order to
refute it. The Hon. Baronet had stated that this
country was in great danger. He agreed with him
us to the danger, but not as to his means of extricating
us from it; for if they should be adopted, the country,
be feared, would be ruined. He did not think the
great danger of the country was from a foreign ene-
my, but that it arose and was engendered much nearer
home. He saw it most formidable in the dissentions
existing among ourselves, and from a prevalence of
opinions uttered in that House, and spread all around
to make us hate one another.—(Hear, hear.) The
exaggerated manner in which opinions were uttered in
that House, gave an opportunity to persons disaffected
to the Government to act under their authority, and
to turn them to the most mischievous purposes ; and
every expression tending to lessen the Government in
the opinion of the people was greatly to be deprecated.
l‘luch as he regretted the dissentions which had taken
place in his Majesty's councils, lie would yet assert,
that it was not the fault of his Right Hon. Friend
near 14m, that there was not at this moment an Ad-
ministration which would have taken into its circle
many of the Gentlemen on the other side of the House,
and given the country the advantage of their talents
and support. Not having however been able to effect
this, he had, with a courage and a constancy that did
him the greatest honour, determined to stand by his
Sovereign ; and so well did lie know his integrity and
abilities, that he would give him his utmost support,
and would not be one of those who would at any
tire go into a systematic change in the Administra-
tion of Government. As to the Hon. baronet's crime
of omissions, he should only say very shortly, that he
voted for the Address, because he thought it went
only to pledge the House generally, and not to bind
spy one to support the late measures ; and against
Amendment,because it wasobvionsly a prejudging
ti Ministers. Though he admitted there was a fai-
l:te in the expedition to the Scheldt, which deserved
toe consideration of the House, he would not pledge
himself even to go into the subject. He differed
widely with those who thought the late expeditions
subjects of unparalleled calamity and disgrace—
( H:ar, hear, hear !) He understood the plan origi-
nally was to have pushed up the Scheldt to Antwerp,
and to carry that place by a coup-de-main, which he be-
lieved had been prevented by unfavourable weather ;
andthe only question was, whether they could or could
not have got up sooner than they did ? Saar certainly
one part of the Expedition had tailed—the other had
succeeded. Hon. Gentlemen might talk as lightly
as they pleased about the destruction of Flushing,
but did they know, that the basin that had been de-
stroyed was capable of holding 22 sail of the line ? ,
Was it nothing to have done this ?---(lfear, hear.)—
ht was there any disgrace in this ?—(liear, hear.)—
These were the exaggerated expressions acid observa-
tions he had alluded to ; and lie was sorry that any
such had been uttered in the House of Commons.—
He then adverted to the army in Spain, spoke highly
in favour of Lcrd Wellington's splendid military ta-
lents and extraordinary courage astd activity ; denied

)siti,

meat;
efilatt4

jectic
[d onl
itferei
:crone

t on
r had
er into
i man!
dent to
the Jo.
tighout
~rmild
which,

pleases
he peo•
rt, that
which

nrer 50
joined
Al ty
to saYl
;...red cn
anal

wa •
d n
a (lac'

lamen il that teLordiWellington shoulll;;;Weniet longertisentrespau-----. the
on attention ix ..... —._
up, as he ( Mr. Y.) thought, as a mark for censure but leave his Amendment to speak for itself. After
and attack ; and if that disposition was not disconti- the paragraph in the Address, which relates to the
nued by the leading characters of that House, and of supply to- his Majesty, he should propose that a pars-
the country, it might go far towards our ruin. He graph to the following effect-should be inserted :
alluded particularly to General Tarleton's having i “ And in justice to your Majesty's subjeess, who have so long
called his conduct rash, and spoken in terms of cen— balm with exemplary patience the burdens of taxation, we will
sure on a brother officer, not present to defend him- immediately and diligently apply °melees to the c,nsideradon
self. and adoption of such ,economical reforms as may be consistent
with the welfare of the State, and may be gratifying to the feel-
Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT thought that the Minis- hie of your pmple."
try was incompetent, at the same time that he was The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
willing to allow the honesty of Mr. Perceval. Any thought there was no occasion for this addition, as the
man who supposed that the expedition to the Scheldt Address already pledged the House to such economy
would succeed, must have looked at a very different in the Supplies as was consistent with the public set..
map of Europe from that which presented itself to vice. He could not think it proper that a sentiment
him. With respect to the battle of Talavera, glorious containing the sort of suspicion which this did, should
as it was called, he would offer a few words. No man be conveyed to the Throne ; and a sentiment also
gloried more than he did in military excellence ; but which would only tend to raise expectations in the
there were two kinds of military excellence—that public mind, of a decrease of burdens, which were
which the soldier exhibited, and that which the gene- not likely to be gratified. The Honourable Gentle-
ral displayed. The soldier manifested himself in his man had talked of the grinding of taxation, but such
strictness of discipline, his patience under fatigue, language seemed to him neither necessary nor politic,
and all the privations to which his situation had sub- as conveying the idea that the taxes were of an un-
jected him ; and these evidences the British soldier just and arbitrary nature. But surely they were im-
kad displayed. With respect to Lord Wellington, he posed by Parliament as necessary for the public ser-
did not mean to dispute his talents, but he could not vice ; and to let the people believe that the laws
agree in the admiration which was generally expres- which imposed them were unjust and arbitrary, was
sed of the laurels he had gathered at Talavera ; in language which he could not approve of. He depre-
his opinion, they were barren laurels, or rather the cated propagating the idea that much could be saved
water of the laurel, which was bitterness itself. He by reforms, as exciting expectations which were not
was willing to give the Right Hon. Gentleman every likely to be gratified ; and, in fact, the reduction of
credit for his loyalty, but he did not consider him the national expenditure by the proposed plan of re-
entitled to exclusive claims. He believed that the form could be very trivial. There are offices which
word was prostituted, whenever it was applied in such adhering to the very nature of the Government can-
a sense • that no man had a right to identify himself not be abolished, a few only, not all then will be re-
with Majesty ; and that, whenever the attempt was moved, and yet while a single one remains an equal
made, it was as injurious to the King, whom it inten- theme of discontent will exist for the people. He
ded to support, as to the constitution, which it cer- therefore could see no necessity for altering the Ad-
tainly violated. He was of no party ; but he thought dress, unless to excite hopes which cannot be grad-
that the country required a strong administration, fled, and eventually to mislead the public.
and that it had it not. The people were taxed to the Mr. PONSONBY could not agree in opinion with
last farthing, and had a right to know that it was- the Right Honourable Gentleman. It was true the
diciously and honestly applied ; and he considered it Amendment proposed did not connect the war ex-
a duty which he owed the country, to concur in the Penditure of the country with the civil establishment,
removal of his Majesty's Ministers from office. Some but he could not see that it would excite any expec- ,
allusions had been made to an illustrious Statesman, tations which ought not to be fulfilled. It was no
now no more ; he conceived that it was owing to him wild er extravagant plan, but a salutary reform,
that he had now an opportunity of appearing in that cautiously worded, and only promising reform in
place, or possessing an acre of land on which to set those things which were perfectly consistent with the
his foot. He did not court popularity, but he thought stability o the Constitution ; he fully agreed in the'
that the loss of millions, and the destruction of the expression of the Right Honourable Gentleman, that
British forces, which had' taken place on the sands of it could not be rigkt to excite expectations which
Holland, should not pass without inquiry. If these would not be fulfilled ; but he asked why they should
the he not ? He saw no reason that they should not ; and,

sentiments were not , sentiments of a wise man,
thanked GOD they were those of an honest man !
General TARLETON said that though the Hon.
Gentleman had talked of simultaneous operations,
the army was not calculated to admit of operations
of that description. As to the losses we had sustain.
ed, in consequence of the weather, the Ministers ought
to have known that such must have been the conse-
quence, and provided against it. There were many
exploits in history with which Talavera could not
compare. It might be wrong to condemn an officer
in his absence ; but, as he delivered his sentiments in
the presence of many of the friends of that officer, he
thought he was exempt from such a charge. It was
evident from Sir A. Wellesley's dispatches that the
army was in want of forage and food ; in such a case
was it not injudicious to lead on the army ? He did
not upon this or upon the former night attribute dis-
credit to the British arms, but he did intend to say,
with respect to British Generals, that they were un-
der disgrace, which nothing but a trial could retrieve.
He would not trouble the House any further upon
the present occasion, as many opportunities would
occur, in which he could express his sentiments, per-
haps with more propriety.
Mr. WHITBREAD rose and observed, that he
had an amendment to offer to one part of the Address
which had been just read to the House. In proposing
his amendment, it was not his intention to go into the
various topics which had been introduced into the pre-
ceding debates, nor to anticipate any of the points
which would become the subject of the discussion to-
morrow. The matter which he was then to submit to
the notice of the House, he was induced to bring for-
ward in consequence of what he had said on a former
night. On that occasion he bad declared his regret
that the Address contained no pledge on the part of
the House, either as to the propriety or the necessity
of the adoption of any economical reforms. It ap-
peared to him, in the present situation of the country,
when the subject was taxed, though not altogether,
yet almost to the full extent which it was possible to
bear—when he saw the great profusion of all the de-
partments of the State, and the prodigal waste of
money in the public expenditure—when he saw the
Right Honourable Gentleman (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) surrounded by men whom he thought
proper to employ, and who were known not to be
friends to economical reform ; and, more particularly,
without meaning any disrespect to the individual,
when he saw an -Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Whar-
ton) who had been (hairman to the Committee of
Ways and Means, and afterwards, as a Member of
the Finance Committee, had, by his opposition to the
Chairman of that Committee, prevented it from
making the progress which it otherwise would have
done, in the Session before the last, made a Secretary
to the Treasury ; when he contemplated all these cir-
cumstances, he felt strongly the necessity of that
House giving the satisfaction of a distinct pledge to
consider and adopt some system of economical reform.
That the Gentleman to whom he alluded, would,
as he had himself modestly stated on the Raver
night, learn to perform his duty, he had no doubt ;
yet, whilst that Gentleman was learning, the public
service must suffer. But though • the Honourable
Gentleman were to be possessed of all the knowledge
necessary for the performance of the duties of his
office, still, as he did not entertain the same views
with himself as to the necessity of economy and re-
form,
he could not look upon him as a pinper person
to be appointed to the situation he had been lately
appointed to. Upon these considerations, therefore,
he thought it necessary for that House to give a dis.
tinct pledge to the public, that it would promote
plans of economical reform—not alone with a view to
actual saving, in which way nothing very material
was to be expected immediately, but also for the sa-
tisfaction of the people, who had cheerfully submitted
to the most extensive sacrifices—not only to the pres-
sure of a severe taxation, but to a s) stem of taxation
which operated upcin them in a manner the most op-

therefore, he concluded, that it was proper, wise, and
just, in that House, to pledge itself to adopt a re-
form ; and with such a conviction impressed upon
his mind, be would support the Address.
Mr, BATHURST thought the paragragh unne-
cessary, as matters connected with the public eco-
nomy were confided to the Finance Committee. His
chief object in rising was to notice a statement made
by an Honourable Baronet (Sir F. Burdett) respect-
ing a Noble Relation of his. 'He understood the No-
ble Baronet to state, that his Relation (Lord Sid-
mouth) received a Peerage for having commenced
the war : but he was misinformed as to the fact, for
it was notorious he did not receive the Peerage then,
but afterwards, on coming into Administration with
Mr. Pitt ; and then he was induced to accept it from
circumstances independent of personal gratification.
He begged also to state, that his Noble Relation, on
retiring from office, declined a title higher than what
he afterwards received, and also refused any pecu-
niary reward or gratification which was then offered
to him.
Sir F. BURDETT said, in explanation, that he
only meant to express his opinion generally, that the
honour was ill bestowed, that the Noble Lord had
done nothing to deserve it, and that he was still to
learn what were his merits.
I Lord TEMPLE thought it important that the
House should shew a disposition to probe and exa-
mine into every abuse, for otherwise the people would
be apt to think that abuses were greater than they
were. He should support the motion.
Mr. WHARTON hoped for the indulgence of the
House in replying to some allusions which had been
made to him. He had not admitted on a former night
that he was ignorant of the duties of the office which
he had the honour to fill, but, if he was ignorant, he
would not come to the Hon. Gentleman for instruc-
tion. He came into office under great disadvantage,
after it had been filled by the Hon. Gentleman who
lately left it ; but he flattered himself, that from the
knowledge which he had previously acquired of Fi-
nance, as Chairman of Ways and Means, and a Mem-
ber of the Finance Committee, and by unremitting
industry, the prophecy of the Honourable Gentle-
man, as to the detriment which the public service
would sustain, would fail to be realised. As to re-
tarding the Report of the Finance Committee, he
thought he had done a public service, by procuring
papers to be expunged from it, which, had they gone
forth, would have had a most detrimental effect to
the country. He believed it was the first time it had
ever been adduced as evidence against a man's capa-
city for a seat at the Treasury, that he had once been
on a Committee of Finance, and had once been the
Chairman of a Committee of Ways and Means. He
could only account for it by recollecting that he had
always differed from the friends of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, and the Hon. Gentleman who sat near
him. Mr. Whitbread stated that a Friend had in-
formed him that the Hon. Gentleman on the last
night said he would be able to learn the duties of his
office, and it was from this he was led to make any
observations on his capacity.
Mr. DENIS BROWNE defended the course
which Mr. Wharton had pursued in the Finance
Committee.
Mr. JOHN SMITH contended, that the general
sentiment of the country was, that Government had
been guilty of a shameful want of economy, more
particularly in the military department. " He would
vote for the Amendment, because it pledged the House
to an inquiry on the subject.
Sir A. PIGOT also supported the Amendment,
which pledged the House to enforce only such re-
trenchments as were consistent with the welfare of the
country: What confidence could Parliament place
in the assurance of Ministers, that the estimates for
the present year should be,framed with a strict regard
to economy when they opposed an inquiry into the
profuse expenditure of the year that was past ? The

subject of the c erect Expedition, implied that
such information was intended to he final, leaving, no
doubt, a great part of the subject, and wticalarly
the expence attendant upon it (on which the proposed
amendment directly bore), without elucidation. With
respect also to the campaign in Spain and Portugal,
Ministers had given no intimation of any intention
on their part to communicate the necessary documents
relative to the expence of that measure. To endea-
vour to obtain this desirable object, as well as m t iv
others, he should heartily concur in the motion of his
Hon. Friend.
The gallery was then cleared for a divisions--Tye
numbers were,
For the Amendment 54
Against it 95
Majority --41
While strangers were excluded, we understood that
Mr. TIERNEY proposed an Amendmeat, the nature of
which we could not ascertain.—Another division en-
sued :
For Mr. Tierney's
Against it 100
Majority
The motion for bringing up the report of the Ad-
dress was then carried without a division. The Re-
port was agreed to ; and the Address was ordered CO
be presented to his Majesty by such of the Members
, as were of his Majesty's most honourable Privy
,Couacil.

S 2

LORDS GAMBIER AND WELLINGTGN.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice, that on Monday next he would move
the thanks of the House to Lord Gambier for the de-
feat of the French in Basque Roads, and to Lord
Wellington for the victory of Talavera.
Mr. WHITBREAD asked to which of the two
motiodt the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to give
priority ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re.
plied, that the date of the achievement would certainly
induce him first to propose the thanks to Lord Gaut-
hier.
Mr. PONSONBY wished to know whether, if the
discussion in the motion for thanks to Lord Gambier
should occupy a large portion of the evening, it was
the Right Hon. Gentleman's intention immediately
to proceed with the motion of thanks to Lord Wel-
lington ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER,
while he confessed that he was solicitous that the House
should not delay expressing their gratitude to Lord
Wellington for his brilliant services, certainly would
not press the subject on Monday evening, should the
preceding question occupy much of the time of the
House. _ _ _

Mr. TIERNEY inquired whether or not there ex-
isted any objection to the production of certain dis-
patches from Lord Wellington (which he particu-
larised) and of a letter from the Spanish Commissary
General Donahough to Lord Wellington, which
would shew that Government knew that the safety
of the British army was endangered at the very mo-
ment that they conferred a Peerage on its Com-
mander ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
observed, that the Papers alluded to by the Honoura-
ble Gentleman would be very insufficient for the pur-
pose he wished to obtain, which could not be effected
by such a partial production ; and that there would
not be sufficient time to lay before the House the
multiplicity of documents necessary on this subject at
so short a notice.
Mr. TIERNEY expressed bis dissatisfaction at
being called upon to vote thanks to Lord Wellington
before the House were put in possession of the Papers
he had mentioned.

FOREIGN TROOPS.
Lord TEMPLE, adverting to the circumstance
of the reception into British pay of a number
of foreign troops that had arrived in this cowitry
under the command of the Duke of Brunswick Oels,
wished to know if it was the intention of Ministers to
advise his Majesty to make any communication to
the House on the subject ?
—,LLOR of the EXCHEi

The CHANCE. L.OR of
replied in the negative ; unless indeed he might re-
ceive his Majesty's commands to make some com-
munication relative to the gallant leader of these
troops. Such a communication as that alluded to
by the Noble Lord was unnecessary ; for it was per-
fectly consistent with the existing laws that a certain
number of foreign troops should be in British pay,
and that number had not been exceeded by the ac-
cession of the troops under the Duke of Brunswick.
If, however, it had been exceeded, under the peculiar
circumstances in which those brave soldiers arrived,
such a step would, in his opinion, have been com-
pletely justifiable; although in that case he should
certainly have thought it his duty to advise a com-
munication to Parliament on the subject.
Lord TEMPLE expressed himself satisfied with
this explanation.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JANUARY- 25.
Lord Viscount LAC and the Bishop of LONDON took the
oaths and their seats.
The proceedings in the Consistory Court in Wellesley's Di-
vorce having been delivered at the bar ; a Bill for dissolving the
marriage of the Right Honourable Henry Wellesley with Lady
Charlotte Wellesley, his now wife, and enabling him to marry
again, was presented by Lord Waisingham.—Read a first time,
and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow fortnight.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said a few words respecting the
more effectual ventilation of the House, intimating his intend°.
of moving for the appointment of a Committee to consider the
best mode of carrying this object into effect.
The Earl of AYLESFORD reported his Majesty's most gm.
dons Answer to the Address of the House, which vras orderedts
be forthwith printed and published.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY moved, that the Lord
Bishop of Bristol be desired to preach before the House on
day, the 30th inst. in Westminster Abbey.—Orderiid

. _
BATTLE OF TALAVERA.
Earl GREY, previous to the discussion of to-mor.
row, on the intended Vote of Thanks to Lord Wet
lington, thought it of considerable importance that
some information should be laid before the House, by
which they might be the better enabled to form an
opinion with respect to the propriety of the motion..—
It was necessary they should kno* whether the ad-
vance of Lord Wellington into Spain, was the e'er.
cise of his own discretion, or the result of the instruc.
tions of Ministers, and with this view he should move
for the instructions sent to Lord Wellington. It was
also of importance they should have before them the
nature of the information communicated by Lord
Wellington respecting the action of Talmera,

'being strong reason to believe that Ministers, at the
time they held out that battle as a victory, knew from
what was stated by Lord Wellington in his dispatches,
that our army must retreat • and that the battle, said
to be a victory, must be followed by all the conse-

quences of defeat. His Lordsh;p. therefore, moved
for the instructions sent to Lord Wellington ; for the
dispatches received from him upon his marching from
Placentia ; for the dispatches which he sent from Ta-
lavera, after the battle ; and also for certain corres-
pondence between Lord Wellington and the Spanish
Government, respecting supplies for the army.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not see the neces-
sity ci calling for any documents of the nature al-
lude," to by the Noble Earl, for the purpose of
discussing the motion for a Vote of Thanks to Lord
Wellington. The vote was a tribute to the bravery
of the a,my, and the skill of the Commander, and
had no connection with any inquiry into the merits of
the campaign. He should therefore oppose the mo-
tion.

The Marquis of DOUGLAS thought it highly ne-
cessary that they should have the proposed information
before them, particularly when it was doubtful whe-
ther the purpose for which the battle of Talavera was
fought was gained, or rather whether it had not
wholly failed. There were other documents also
which he thought of importance, and for which he
should afterwards move.

Lord ERSKINE said, he should have great satis-
faction, if unfettered by his situation in that House,
in paying a tribute to the merits of Lord Wellington,
whom be considered as an able and accomplished of-
ficer. Ile thought it, however, essential, that they
should have the proposed information before they pro-
ceeded to the discussion of a Motion of Thanks for
the Battle of Talavera. He would put an hypothe-
tical case—Suppose that the result of fighting a battle
should he, although a victory was claimed, the failure
of the main pu:poses of the campaign, would it not
be essential that they should have information with
respect to the reasons for adopting that measure, be-
fore they voted Thanks for a victory which had pro-
duced only disastrous consequences ?
The Earl of HA RROW BY maintained that it was
not the practice to call for information, with the view
of ascertaining the character of a victory when the
only purpose in contemplation was the voting Thanks
to the Commander. The precedents were all the
other way. Thanks were votod for the victory of
Maida, although without meaning to convey the
slightest reflection it might be said to be little better
than a barren laurel.
Earl GROSVENOR contended, that it was im-
possible for that House to vote thanks for a mere iso-
lated act of valour, without inquiring into the cir-
cumstances which attended it. With respect to the
battle of Maida, it was complete in its object, and the
Commander retreated at his option, but the only con-
sequences of the battle of Talavera were the surrender
of our sick and wounded into the hands of the enemy,
and our being forced to retreat.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE thought the con-
; extremely singular ; an intention
!d by his Noble Friend on Tuesday
forward a motion of inquiry into
le Campaign in Spain, which neces-
te merits of the battle of Talavera,
not thought a sufficient reason to
a vote of thanks for fighting that
the affair of Basqueßoads the mere
of a Member of the House of Com-
'could oppose a vote of thanks, led to
m the Commander.
SIDNIOUTH was desirous that a
[d take place into the conduct of the
on, and that the documents moved
Earl, and many more, should be
did not think their production ap-
:ended motion for a vote of thanks.
!cedent for calling for papers to in-
neral conduct of a campaign with a
specific vote of thanks for a parti-
.n the case of the battle of Corunna
made about the vote of thanks, al-
paign had been disastrous, and de-

was by no means convinced by what
ire was the slightest impropriety in
t the case be put hypothetically, of
Ivancing into a country, fighting a
a victory, and in two days after-
ged to retreat before those whom he
I to leave in the hands of the enemy
coded; and surely their Lordships
:essity of having before them some
:co the circumstances attending this
which led to it, before they cams• to
a vote of Thanks, proposed to the
[6 Noble Friend (Lord Sidmouth)
ie Battle of Corunna ; when these
ced he was not in the House, but in
[ant and distinguished Officer who
ied his object ; the purpose of fight-
! a good retreat, and that object was
the case of the Battle of Talavera it
:they it was a victory or not. Under
;es he thcught it essential that the
•ed for should be laid before the

were negatived.
of DOUGLAS then made some
:ional Papers, consisting of Corres-
:n Lord Wellington and Marshal
ilk% were also negatived.
!re ordered to be summoned for to-
ie motion of the Earl of Liverpool,
.nrd Wellington, of which he gave
;day night during the exclusion of

LORD G AMIITER.
NVILLE, understanding that a notice
iesday night for a motion of Thanks
ler for the destruction of the French
Roads, wished to call the attention
the adoption of some mode for the
(ering their proceedings regular. The
appeared on the Journals respecting
was an intimation of his arrest, for
us being tried for his life and honour
Martial. If it was now thought ex.
Thanks should be moved, it would be
the proceedings of that Court Martial
before the House, in order that they
regularly before them what had taken

should he, zlthough a victory ss
of the main purposes of the c:
be essential that they should I
respect to the reasons for adop
fore they voted Thanks for a s
duced only disastrous consequc
The Earl of HA RROW BY
not the practice to call for info
of ascertaining the character
only purpose in contemplation
to the Commander. The pr
other way. Thanks were vo
5 Maida, although without m!
slightest reflection it might b(
than a barren laurel.
Earl GROSVENOR conti
possible for that House to vot
fated act of valour, without
cumstanees which attended it,
battle of Maida, it was compb
Commander retreated at his o
sequences of the battle of Tala
of our sick and wounded into
and our being forced to retrea
The Earl of L /NUDE RD.
duct of Ministers extremely
had been intimated by his Nc
night of bringing forward a
the conduct of the Campaign
sarily involved the merits of
and yet this was not though
stop a motion for a vote of t
battle, although in the affair of
private intimation of a Membi
mons, that he should oppose
a Court Martial on the Comm
Lord Viscount SIDMOUI
full inquiry should take place
Campaign in Spain, and tha
for by the Noble Earl, and I
produced, but he did not thi.
plicable to the intended motic
There was no precedent for (
quire into the general conduc
view merely to a specific vot
cuiar service. In the case of
no question was made about
though the campaign had b
minded inquiry.
Earl GREY was by no m!
he heard that there was the
his motions. Let the case be
a Commander advancing int,
battle, claiming*, a victory,
wards being obliged to retrea
had defeated, and to leave in
his sick and wounded ; and
most feel the necessity of ha.
information as to the circus
• battle, and those which led t(
the discussion of a vote of 'I
Commander. His Noble Ft
had mentioned the Battle of
Thanks were voted he was nt
that case the gallant and di!
• commanded gained his object
ing was to secure a good retr
gained. But in the case of t
• was doubtful whether it was
these circumstances he thcii
information moved for shot
House.
The motions were negative
The Marquis of DOUG!
:notions for additional Paper
pondence between Lord W
Beresford, &c. which were al
The Lords were ordered t
morrow, upon the motion of
for Thanks to Lord Wellini
notice on Tuesday night ci
strangers.
LORD GAM
Lord GRENVILLE, um
was given on Tuesday night
to Lord Gambier for the de
ships in Basque Roads, wis
of the House to the adoptio
. purpose of rendering their pr
last notice which appeared of
Lord Gambier was an intit
the purpose of his being trie
before a Court Martial. If
pedient that Thanks should
necessary that the proceedin
should be laid before the H
'night have regularly befim