Star.
London, England, 1811-03-22 00:00:00

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with beer much ease and' ,by a judo-tone core-. elm. He had not mentioned, the word ' effect their Committee those"
leitthe-daile td
etcludeliting thereoffront
th." Thls 01l ba
theinteHorr.icni tthleemden.,.accose
bieation of the natives, the wholeguropean population those ills might arise from extending th Gentlemen
r. DUNDAS connected
said, sod
of pangal might be exterminated. Was it not Wise to press to India, which the Hon. Gentlemann mime.
prevept eblitation of such articles as this woo? It thtlughewrongly)
_ascribed that "-
wools! e be so.' ' that the publisher might be Mier, will be (r. W How ding to his usual custom, bad said a great deal about
ponished, ' was that when the mischief impacted to result from ipt ,4 would what was not at all connected with the sehject before
respect the trials at efailras, sery of the people; but, on the contrary, that it would with to understand what the Wiest material advan- the House. He had accused him ef nominating a
asserted, that the aovernnairut of tend to prop that power which must otherwise crum• tages were which the present Bill proposed. Till he Committee, consisting of Directors, or of pe, g
Ashamed of the proceedings on •ble into dust. The paper moved for ought to be pro- could ascertain these, and for allowing the House a under their influence, or the influence of the Board of
re two parties involved in this duced. If the regulations Made by the Marquis of reasonable period for consideration before they hastily Controul ; which was not the fact. Some of these
arts and' the Government. He Wellesley were good, they ought to be brought for- concluded on so great an undertaking.he would move Gentlemen, whose experience and information were
application was made to the ward to justify him a and if they were unwise and that the second reading of the Bill should be postponed necessary, were certainly on the Committee bat te
to publish the proceedings, the impolitic, they pught to be produced, that they might to this day three months. refute tbe Honourable Gentleman's assertion, he.
Noble Lord, did make the be canvassed. The Hon. Gentleman bad said the -Mr. BYNG, alluding to the, rapidity with which would, by reading over the other names, give him a
Lord ascribed to hire, the people of India were not in the situation in which the Bill of 1798 had been hurried through Parliament, very short answer. The Right Honourable Gentle_
.ety of which he would not now 'it had been said they were, as they were governed by observed, that though the Grand Junction Canal mart then, with comments on every 'tame, chaleng-
however, declared, that they' had persons who were responsible for their conduct to Company were in very great baste to have it passed, ing Mr. Creevey to make good his assertion, tend
that they could grant no per. that House. After this, however, when they were they were not in such a hurry to perform the stipule- over the names of Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Wilberfoim
C,oiernment. But first, he called to account to that House, that Hon. Gentle- eons of the Act, relative to supplying a certain dis. Mr. Tierney, Mr. S. Bout= Mr. Fimbuga, e.,„a
Jugh regulations existed in man opposed the ereducti6n of the paper requisite trict with seater—with which they were bound to sup- Morpeth, Sir-J. Anstruther, Mr. N. Vansittart, ma
G. Johnitone, Mr. Creevey, Mr. Patteson, Sir R.
publication of newspapers, he for their' information. Not only was it considered ply the tenants of tee Bishop of London at a cheaper
~y reiulation existed respecting right to withhold from the natives of India moral and , rate than any other persons. No one of his Consti- Peele, Mr. Vanderhagen, Mr. D. Porcher, and alo
the pobjication.of books. The persoo who was about political information, but it was even thought proper 1 tuents, in the peighboinhood of Mary-la bonne, &c. De Pontbieu (the two last new Members). These
to publish the trials applied for permission so to*? to deny them a knowledge of Christianity. To sep- i had petitioned in favour of the Bill—but many had were 15 out of the 21 Members' who composed tee
. to the Secretaey of the Goeernment, erebibly 'with port a political despotism, they would not let them , expressed sentiments decidedly hostile to it. He, Committee, and who could not, in the most distart
a view to giyeareatesesanction to his publiCation.— hate the light of that Gospel through which they theiefeee, thought it his duty to make thet early stand degree, be impeached. As for the Hon. Gentleman's
Permission *as refused—what would have been done hoped 'for salvation themselves.—(No,frem die Trea- against the measure, and heartily coincided in the predictions, when he came to see the accounts for the
by the Government bad-the publication taken place, :toy Bersch.)—One Hon. Gentleman had expressed amendment of his Hon. Friend. year, he believed even he would be compelled to con.
potwithstansling, he ;maw not He did not think hoer. himeelf nearly to that effect, and the Right Hon. Se. •Mr. MELLISH in part allowed the justice of the fess that his prophecies of. ruin and loss were' not very
peer, ihat the -Government Would in such acase have cretory himself had seemed about to say so, when . Honourable Gentleman's observations, and said, since likely to be fulfilled. The Hoa. Gentleman coin.
dwee wrong to punish the publishers ; for ii was ad- the enormity of the proposition appeared to startle such material obstacles wereaterted against the Bill, plained of having hia pocket picked ; but, with she
. soitted on all hands; that at that moment the greatest him. He was sorry this 'discussion had taken Piece, the could wish that the whole was referred to a Com. escepticm of the loan of rek,soCi,ooo last year, all for.
ferment prevalled in Madras ; the Judges, whether to
oh tie the world, the wretched situatien of those mitw, where he doubted not that the Honourable rate monies paid collie Company *ere just and legal
preperly or iniptoperly it was not the time to inquire, who were called our fellow-subjects, but who were Gentleman would be satisfied, and discuter that many ' debts'due to them: Would the Hon. Gentleman call
.having thought fit to refer the result of the trials to not so in fact, 's but those (said Mr. Whitbrinel) •of his objections perhaps possessed not that weight it picking his pocket, *ere !listener or butcher to call
gngland for the consideration of his Majesty. Whe,- whom we and our fellow-subjects are despots over." which he had illewed them. The' Lord Bishop of los hits payment of his bills% or reproach them
;her or not, however, punishment would have fob: He thought this discussion would-hue been well London did not object to those parts of the Bill con. liwith not or
e'sng able to awry on theiebusiness without
kiwed the publication, nothing to him could be more avoided by the production of the papa. It would cerning the supply of his tenantry with cheaper water.. I,aid film him ?
evident, thou abet she Government of India would have been perfectly harmless. ind it must have done He could not see any hindrance material enough to - . Lord FOLKESTONE followed,on the rime side
• have ...coil. trutsattowisely had they under such cit.. good, as it would have jnstified the, Marquis of bat the second reading of the Bill. with Mr. Creevey, and contended, in favour of the
epmstaneos granted a formal permission for a publi- Wellesley, or benefited the country, by shewing whit Mr. Ward and Mr. Mellish mutually explained Amendment, that there were strong objections to
cation of that nature. . was wrong. . concerning their mettext of the LAO. Bishop off
parties interested being en the Committee. Those
Mr. HQWORTH, while he admitted that an un- Mr. R. DUNDAS explained. He was not for London. most interested took the lead, and the others did not
restrained press in India could not with safety be al- r withholding from the natives of India the light of . Mr. SIMEON
billy;agued strenuously ageinst the con- attend. For three years they had rat and never pro.
lowed, contenJed that it was very hard upon. uro-E Christianity, be only wished to keep that from them 6:Mance of the said it was a-kin to one brought ,duced any thing but when they wan;.ed money,
peens in that country, to 'suffer from- regulations which would lead to tumultuous proceedings. , into the House in the present Session, but wh;ch had • Mr. WALLACE defended the Committee, which
which it was impossible tor them to anticipate before Mr. WHITBREAD had understood him to say, been very judiciously consigned to neglect. Hewaanot to,judge and decide, but to collect inform'.
,
they wept thither. . . to attempt to do away the htws and the superstitions . sidered the present one as needing the aame stamp of 1 ton on which the House should come to a decision;
Sir T, TURTON thought the rules and regula- .of Hindostan would, be improper. • , reprobation affixed on it. Corporations, after break. , and therefore Gentlemen connected with the Cori.
thins which-had been made, and which had been ore The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER ing their bonds and obligations to the country, wish poly were not liable to the objertioe started against
proved of by Government, ought to be laid before was of opinion, that the arguments made use of in to turn matters to their own profit, and come solicit. them. A new Committee would also occasion much
ehe House, support of the motion, .were such as might be made ing Parliament for farther opportunities of enriching delay from theirbeing ignorant of formerinformatinn.
Mr. R. DUNDAS explained. use of on any similar occasion, and was attended with themselves and of committing trespass against the Mr. WHITBREAD supported the Amendment.
. Mr. WALLACE opposed the production of the considerable objections, as the production of papers public, he therefore took .the present opportunity of Thelionourable Gentlemen opposite had often nut.
Paper moved.for, and thought there were no grounds supposed a prima facia case made out, oa which the testifying his opposition to the bill.. voted, but never out-reasoned them on this subject.
(or laying it before the House. motion was founded, and there was always a .liie. ' ' Sir J. c. HIPPESLEY observed,- it was the - Mr. GRANT would be glad to have an inquiry
Mr. MITCHINSON supported the Noble Lord sumption of something wrong, which overthrew the ' aim of the present bill to carry forward the Grand by otherbut wuld not allow it to he done in
on the principle, that the House not to lose sight of ,idea that no injury was likely to be sustained from ' Junction' Water Works so as to be more beneficiaries this invidious way, calf by Amenement.
In
but ought still to retain over it a wholesome acceding to the motior.—The Right Honouroble the public, it would now be lodged in hands Which•
After an explanation from Mr. Creevey, the Howe
end r:alutary coptroul. He was sorry to bear such Gentleman defeaded the President of the Board of would use the grant of Parliament to more advantage divided—
en argumept against the liberty of the press as had Controul from the imputation cast upon him by the than it had been lately used. He took npcin him to - For the -Amendment 19—ApInst it no—Majority 57.
fallen from a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who Honourable Gentleman.(Mr.Whitbread); and said, state, that a letter which had obtained the credit of ' The orieinal question was then put and carried.
madsaid that, which, in his opinion, amounted to an that it was a curious explanation, to say that he had being written to an Hon. Member of the Heine, by . AID yo IRISH MANUFACTURIRs.
admission of the system acted woo in that country, made this imputation, because another Honourable a Member of the Grendlunctirm Committee, was ab. , Mr. W. POLE, on oste rcturn to the gallery, wee
being such that it was not safe to let the people know Gentleman made a similar remark well that of his solutely a forgery, and he would counsel the Rouse to ton hit legs, moving " That a Committee of the whole
ebenature of their Government. Right Honourable Friend. (Here Nlr.i.V. dissented.) abstain from listening to its contents. He knew tile House, to-morrosv, should take into consideration the
Mr. GRANT contended chit despotism had not He really thought this was the. purport of his es*, advantages which would result to the City end- the Pars presented by Mr. Secretary Ryder on Friday
been established there by England, but that it had nation. Now be knew too well the opinions. of his : suburbs from the present bins etiditehottld have his Paper
elative to the Cotton and Woollen mmtefae,
been found there, where-it had existed far many. ages.' Right Honourable Friend •
on this point. He was' hearty support. . tories in Ireland." He btieey stated, that in July
The introduction of the liberty of tie press might glad he had an opportunity of explaining himself.— I Sir PEI ER MOO RE exprosiectisepee that the bill last, when great distress prevailed among rate Monti.
lead to 'the,most fatal consequences, and, in the pre- On the whole, he thought that a better case should be would go into a Continittie, where its particular me. Lecturers in Dublin, on a representation being made
sent state Of things,, would miliirige the'wbole frame made out for the production of these papers, than rits would be more broadly discussed. • - to Government, and due consideration of the sueject,
.
bf Indian society. .He did not think any coo had mere curiosity, for such appeared to him to be the on s division, there appeared—For she:Amendment et...- the. Lord Lieutenant was advised to give a similar
seen made out on which the paper ought to At pro- grounds of the present.motion. Against it 76—Majority 55.
. .accommodation to that of 1793, and 5e200,000 was
iltreed. - . - Sir JOHN NEWPORT defended the winds of ,
_. milulsed.e Pall was Shea read a seessad tin*, and ardered cobsc°l°' advanced by the Bank on that occasion. This relief
2 Sir H. M QIarrGWER.Y approved of the,present his Noble Friend's motion,
.and said that ough thel ' COMMITTEE ON INDIA AVFAIRS. was most COlitplete,:ind managed by men of the tint
system, and tbOught arty innovation that might be House might find no reasoe to censure those restric.that so far from
respectabilita tosuch adeentafe,f any
Mr. DUNDAS' rose to move fur the appointmentprofit arose front the
;node would be Very dangerous to the interests of this dens which were placed on the Press of India ; yet of a Select Committee, to inquire into the State oldie loss liris." from it, a small
f ountry. He, however, could have wished the trial 'as the great controuling power of the country, they i Affairs of India ; that from their Report, the House, charge of 6 per cent. on the lion, paying the 5 pet
cent. on which the Bank advanced it, and a little
in question had been 'allowed to be published, as it. had a net to inquire into the nature of those restrc- , befiire coming to the consideration of the general on-
imight hove -prevented the introduction of a report of tionso and to make such researches as they would 'ms , cerns of that empire, might be put in possession of An -more than all she .ezpences attendant upon
!roan
bee-
' is
It intp this country, which he had been given to un- any other matters which might come before them.. possible information. He anticipated no objection to ness. A similar result was to, be tepee rom '
iderstand was spurious.' and he hoped that they would sanction this motion as ; this motion, as the Committee would consist Of the advance, anal his object was, to refer. the Papers to a
their favourable Report,
Mr. LOCKHART observed the Government of a measure of justice and an exercise of right. - I same Members who composed it last year, with the Ccmunittee' in °Nierthat' tan -
Indishad been acquired, like most other Governments, Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHER explained.' brio in a Bill ito secure the
I exception of two Honourable Gentlernan oppo- beß mkigfht obtain lea" in g 1
p ally by conquest, partly by compact, and partly Lord A. HAMILTON briefly replied to several ' site who could not attend, and his Right Honourable an. rom all
.risk. He made his motion accordingls
nwhich was agreed tre • ...
by forfeiture. Unite;' these circumstances, to anew arguments which bad been advanced, and deprecated ; Friend, the chanceller-dethetichequer, whose more •
of the unrestrained liberty of the press would be don- the principle that the present mode of
at important avocations-wefild 'also prevent his ante- CoMmIDICIAL coma Lows MI.
us. Their situation, however, was no such as was necessary to its preservation --if that Was Came dance. He ioncluded • let mbving, " That a Select R. of the - EXCHEQUER
, The C, HANCELLO
of . .
ts Bill should be
sad been said to be, as, if they did nertekjoy e de- then indeed all discussion was nugatory. He was
. 1 Committee beappointtet tit inquire into the present moved, ' That. die. geport. th
taken into further consideration," which was agreet
mocratic government, they were goreetted by persons confident that if he could collect the opinions of all I State and Affilyaairthe'East-India Company, and to
whohow ro-----ble - this country, and answerable the people of the country, they would be in favour ofl Report the saonfiLirith obsereatioes, to the House." to, and Ira" goat, time'
- the v. •of India, to hay; -- it govern- Mr.CREENZY b' o ject to appotn en of The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
--- - .
ed die ' -un t 0' •
then moved, o TIM the blank relative to Interest

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we :ere responsie. to
...__ _,,_
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• fir their conduct to thae"Hotise:- He thought the mo- renouncing L. empire .. , .ang _ this ,
. __ _ _ _ _
;inn had been brought forward merely as a compli- ed as it was. He. wished, before he sat doyen, to en- '
1 Commhtee, on the grounds that it could do no ,old be filled ups two, e per day."
:tient to the abstract liberty of the press, and tturtgli quite of the President of the. Board of Controul, whe- —that it had done ne good for the 3 years it had lbw.
Mr.HENRY THORNTON moved, as an amend-
it should run into some excessis (and some licentious eller it was in contempt ion daring the_ press ent Ses- i norninamd—and that so far from furnishing informa-
t, ." That the words should be twopence-bale
etrides he thought it had taken), he was• far from sion ap give notice respecting the setter' of the Char. '. tion, it Was only a pretext for precluding ifiquirt.— I
periny, the priceot Exchequer hills being much greats
wishing to impose any new restriction. The liberty ter; which was on the eve of expiring . 'He objected to it, because the maitaging party in k .
in value than they were in 1793."
'of the press had done much goOd—it had also been Mr. DUNDAS said, that a-similar question 'tad ' who were to instruct the House were precisely the ,
in some. instances a source of the most tremendous been before put by e Right Honourable Baronet, to `persons most interested in the decision. It was no i The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
an sower that it was intended said he wished that this relief should not be made a
evils. It had been spoken of a$ that which ought not which he had given wonder that with such a Committee they should never mauve of speculation. The Parliament ought to se
4) ba discussed. From its- magnitude and import. to give this notice, but that it taQuld not be deemed** • hear oe any blame attached to the Directors, or to the
ante, he thought it ought oftenao be brought under ces:sary to go into the conditions of
the New Chaeas,.. Board of Contralti. He eerily believed he might tit provided for tti a
cure the public arainet any loss, which would be lune
ti tainterest he bad moved for.
their consideration. What, was the press to become Mr. WALLACE eplained. • • ' among them
sube remainder of his life, and 'never i liw
1 Mr. TIER EY said this was a measure only ito
intolerant, and say " you shall not discuss such a Mgt. JOHNSTONE opposed the teatime, saxd.. hear such a ect brOached. He ;then animad- tended for the relief of the Manufacturers, but by the
• snhject ?" He remembered what hadaaken place inn thouh there had been no abuse of the PoWor l'egfai vatted on and censured the Board of Controul, as extraordinary preamble to the bill, all persons of
-she National Assembly of the Wendel :Bi. D•aningo; in the Government of India, which could justify the', having darkened rather than enlightened the public :
whatever class were liable to apply.
where, is consequence of the attemiet" to extend the Lproduction of the papers. Jon the Affairs of India, by their Budgets. And the'
.
liberty of the press, the most dreadful scenes occurred. The gallery was then cleared. fora division, ; 1
,* : reports of this Committee resemhled these budgets ;ill
I would not amo.nt to more than 5 per cent. which
Mr. HUSKISSON observed, that Cad. per day
Those who were to he benefited by it, rose and Mae- which the numbers were ; I tending.to confuse and perplex the anderstanding.— : would make the interest 10s. less than in 1793.
• Sacred their friends indseriminately with their foes, For the motionla—Againstitee--Majority against Well might it be said of them that they had sat longer 1 Mr. BARING said, the borrowers were not in the
' Mid at length' itteetieded io making themselves so- the motion 35. . ; and done less than any Committee ever did in the same situation they were in in 1793, and he was con-
' ear
Ot the-Island. Suce mightbe the consequeuies 'On re.admission to the gallery, we found Sir 0- whole history of Parliament. He protested against fident the country would not wish any benefit from
' Cif the introduction of the lherty of the press tolndia. MOSELY on his leg:, moving for leave to bring in ; such a farce being carried su any longer, to pick his the distre of the applicants.
They ought to watch earefelly over the interests of a, bill to reeder valid certain indentures for binding , pocket,. and the public pocket. without.affording any
1 that ;taunt! y,but not thitik olconcedingthat privilege. pair!. apprentices; • ; reason or explanation.- .From the labours of such M ROSE said, the Commissioners were authte
. . r.
`.'• Mr. WALLACE aid Mr. LCCltllittlT severally ex. After a few remarks from Mr. D. GIDDY, leave ' Committees it was, that the Company came to the •
' rived to examine the applicants upon oath, and the
•taelned.'' . ' was given, the bill brought in, read a first time, and •. Public for loans and aids. These meeters in. India loss to the
interest specified would be sufficient to prevent ara
.-. Ur. WHITBREAD said the Hon. Gentleman ordered to be read a second time on Tuesday. . i
I were the paupers of Leadenball-street; but he thought, country,
The House then divided on the amendment :
had mentiore d the licentious- TUE ARMY. 1 before they were called on for further advances, they
•Ayes 29—Noes 28---Majority toe the amendmentl.
observed that it had taken Mr. HUTCHINSON gave notice of his intention, - ought at least to have more information from the Mr.WHITBREAD wished to know in what state
. Whitbread) was also of opi. on-the 4th of April, of calling the attention of- the i Board of Controul and the ConsMitteee. All he he
some strides, bia those strides House to the dispoSition of the Military Force of the ' the Eicheqiter Bills stood which Were voted for. t
asked of them was, that a Committee of ishpartial Relief of
taken backwards. It the Hon. Empire, and dur Military Policy in general. i
. men might be appointed, and what information was
the West India.
to What. had been published GRAND JUNCTION CANAL WATERWORKS BILL. , 1 necessary they could have from these persons as wit- • •
Sir 1' TURTON asked wheteer soy bonus Was
a
compared those publication* . ' Mr.
0 MIII.u.L, Mil ro.vedwitihe second rt.:snits of the Grand Tune- . nesse', against whom be objected as hlembers of the intended to be given if the Bills were not brought i
the 'press at the present dabi ,stoic
i% ansNlVAstßDargued against h
Ir. -
_general aim of;
' Committee. They had a great odds against him, and so Met as expected ?
•The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
,uld be of opituon, that the Mo.: , .of • had 100 triumphed ; but be was, nevertheles., con-
; , the Bill; said a transzer was propose the proper- ,rented said there was a lteport upon that subject in the let
retrograde and not l'lrcgress•vrti ties of the old Corporation into the present Bill. The ; they would not do so. fur any great period, as
chequer, :Ind if any ova wished, he might move tor it.
aware, that to place the is events were coming forward which would Oblige the
. 'els • capital of the other Company was long ago expended,' Several verbal Arneadments were then made in the
in India'on the same (doting as in Ecglald, might bel House to pause. and consider -on what he had often
theret little good could be expected troni the present 'Bill, and it was ordered to be reed a third time w•
deigerotis. The Government of India had bean ac-told those. To obviate what he considered so oh-
: proposition.- - The old Bill, which was obtained aboutmorrow —Ad turned.
. ea.________,L___
crated, as the Hun. Gentleman had said, by cot:pie:l , ination•of the Right Hon. Gen-
% thirty yeas ago, contained a clause, wherehi the Loril ie‘tig!lable in the nom
' tiy if:impact, and by forfeiture.; but he" had ()mitt bisho.,
of Lando opum, he waubi, snore, as an amitalment, alter the ,nts tenints tired their water con-ILAVIL K INT, it LIN NTAI
' poe short monosyllable naming that which had tetl.r. i • Y 4 .4...-. than .n., other of the j.,„),„,ht,,.„,.. tad 0 Compapy° to insert these words, .. and into LONDON; Prtittedandpublisketipf
...ace, Tinelas.
• ! tic. d Erupt to give us that than any thing 1.• .f ---r" - .7"-f. ?"-- rr"r! 'Oa comma of die Directors andtßoard of cootrold! .ertfh 144" le 0.0 erlalet Om at tie
~ . acquisition .. . -
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• '
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. .. . .
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prevent the ptibli,cation of st
Would perhaps be said, tha
punished, but of what avail
'was effected ? With respa,
the Noble Lord had asserte
India appeared to be ashan
that subject. There were t
L c sideration,the Courts
a - Ithejit that when app
kt‘for permission to pt
itiaga.4lludecl to by the I
, - answer which 'the Noble
- propt;etY or impropriety c
diauss. The Court, howe'
nothing to do with it, tha
Mission. Then for the .c
' itlust observe, that akhot
' Ildt;, repeating the ;so
' did isot believe.that any ri
-1:... -..L1:....0:nn of tiniarC.

Mr. wro Detz,n.i.,
who had just spokes, b
nets of -the press,' and
seine .strides. He (Mr.
pion that it had. taken sc
appeared to him to be ra
Gentleman-looked back
snarly Years ago, and c
'*ith what issued -from
ite thought he also wi.ul
tion of the Friend
was re
Ni.ble Friend was

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I not inent4On4 die- word 44' Fraud. 4 If dalatlas, was eidtted in the fingieditt'ertier new lilt—their E
ht arise from extending the liberty of the Ilill without any fair reason being magi* fee he be.' the effect I
a, which the Hon. Gentleman had (he mg 10., The resources too which were sed for Gentlemen
%ly) ascribed to that measure in St. Do- of water, were sons* of dew week loads- '.. Mr. DL
o- the s
he (Mr. W.) thought no evil could be quite to sustain the purposes ofthelifoesilithia. How ding to hi,
result from An attempt to soften the mi- could they then lend any aid to
ttet others -Ile woeld wthhat was
—t....• .1.. em 111:011,4'21 2[11114n1. e 'House