Star.
London, England, 1818-02-11 00:00:00

on of pub.
should '

lic justice in the country that the motion be
agreed to, and that so the House might be enabled
to examine into the truth of these charges. It was
the duty of the House to ascertain its truth. He,
Campbell, had taken pains to furnish the House with
the particular circumstances, and the names of the
Gentlemen present ; and it' his story were not true,
he would put it to any person to sly where he had
ever seen a single case in which perjury might be so'
clearly established ?—(hear, hear.)—Months kul now
elapsed since the trial, and circumstances were im-
puted to the Learned Gentleman which it could not
be supposed would have remained an hour uncontra-
dieted. The Learned Lord had nothing to do but to
try the man for perjury', and by having him convicted,
to rescue his character, as well as that of the whole
profession to which he had the honour to belong.—
He feared he was expressing himself with too much
warmth, but he declared that it was impossible for
him to feel any other sentiment towards the Learned
Lord than that of the highest respect. There was,
indeed, nothing in his whole public character that
could provoke the smallest hostility ; but he was prim.]
to say, that there was always a strong party in that
House, whebAieved their own personal interest con-
cerned in every thing connected with the public wel,
fare. He would now beg leave to read from a copy
of a pamphlet, the extraordinary deposition of this
man, and then he would leave it to any Gentleman
to say whether he thought such a statement ought to
remain uncontradicted, or if the circumstances re-
lated were true, some persons ought to go unpu-
nished? It was only of use to spew what had been
done with this person from the beginning, and thus
to shew Magistrates, and all infenor Magistrates in
this country, that those were practices whieli the
Constitution does not suffer. (The Honourable Gen-
tleman then proceeded to read a variety of passages
from the pamphlet, which have already been extracted
in the public papers. They related to the interroga-,
tions put to him, whether he would be a witness, i
and his being afterwards told by the Procurator
fiscal that his name was put down as one.)—The
whole question (said the Honourable Gentleman) from
beginning to end, was as to this man's being brought
forward as a witness ; and the inference must be,
'that the Procurator Fiscal was not unauthorised by
Mr: Drummond, and it would be enough to call on
d Mr. Drummonto say whether the Procurator was
authorised or not ? The first time Mr. Drummond
saw him in the Castle he said M'Kinlay had been
served with the indictment, that he was in the list of
witnesses, and this was the time to determine whether
he would be a witness ;—Gear, hear, hear.)--Could
any man,be so slow as not to understand the mean-
ing of this ? The deponent said he did not wish to
be a witness. He was told he might change his
name after the trial, that he might not be known.—
The deponent said he would not change his name.
Drummond then said, he had been thinking of a plan
to get him into the Excise. • (Load laughter.) He
would write to Lord Sidmouth, if he chose, to ask
such an appointment for him. This was after he had
been told his name had been put down as a witness.
—He could not believe that his life was in danger,'
when he was told it was, and was advised to go
abroad after the trials should be over. But if this'
were a fact, why was he offered a place at home ?
Would making him an Exciseman protect him
.—(Lasighing)? There was then a conversation-with
regard to his safety, at which molt3erson was present
but Drummond at the first time it was broached.—
Campbell said, 4‘ 1 cannot be a witness. I do not
choose to be made an Exciseman."—.‘ Then what
will you have ?"—(Hear, hear, aid laughing.) If this
were a fabrication, the man had only, after stating it
once, to let it drop ; but he repeats it afterwards.—
Then came the passage that the Learned Lord had
' read and laid so much stress on, and which, in his,
opinion, was one of the most painful passages of the'
whole. Drummond said to him, that if lie would I
give such information as would please the Lord Ad-
vocate, he should neither be tried nor made a witness.
Drummond had tried to make a witness of him, but
finding he could not prevail, he said, If you'll only
give information, not make a witness of you."—
(Hear, Aker.)—He concluded with telling him there
were two things.at his option, either tube a witness
or to be tries for his life. • These passages he should
much wish to see contradicted.; for he conceived that
nothing would tend so much to pervert the cause of
Justice, as to talk to a man of the danger he may be
' in from prosecution, in order to induce him to give
information. He must repeat, that there was not
evidence against Drummond of these being facts, but
they were such assertions, that neither.he, nor any
body connected with him, ought to rest satisfied till
they were coutradicted. The man was then told he
I might be sent to Prussia, where lie might obtain
work at his own trade as a cotton weaver, and better
pay than at home, and the deponent said he would
consent, if his wife were also considered ; and then
• came the question of sending for his wife—(hear).—
There was then an interview between him and the
Solicitor-General, the Procurator-Fiscal, the Sheriff,
and Sheriff's Substitute, and a Clerk. The deponent
said he would not answer till the means of sending
hint to Prussia had been settled. He could not be a
witness, unless he got his passport for the Continent
and the means of conveyance. Now, was there any
thing in the world so'easy as to contradict this, if it
were not true? Could not any of•the persons pre-
sent, even the Clerk, prove the contrary, as he must
have taken down the witness's words? But the sum
and substance of the whole was a written agreement,
that he should be conveyed at the public expense to
a foreign country. It niight ha said, that it was fair
to transport him, in order to pre.erve him ; and that

it might be desirable for him to go, as in Glasgow
he could -ges-e•triosr siapeesee aw-aire
shillings a-week waget.; while in Prussia there were
offers held out that might induce men in his situation
to emigrate. Then we were told that this was not an
offer •of reward. lie afterwards wrote to Captain
Sibbald, the Jailer, fur a pair of shoes and some mo-
ney ; but he told him, on sending the shoes, that he
could not give him any money till after the trial was
over. He wrote again, got the same answer, and
Captain Sibbald told him he had got it from Mr.
Home Drummond. What, then, was so easy as to
prosecute this man for perjury?—{Hear, hear.)—
The Learned Lord had said it was the duty of the
Sheriff not to take down any thing illegal : but be-
cause the Sheriff had burnt his notes, '(and he really
could not imagine why he should have done so) we
were to conclude there was nothing in them that was
not fit to see the light (Laughter.) He would leave
the House to say whether there was any thing in this
paper that was likely to give information either to
confirm or contradict 'the deposition 'of Campbell a
The man even told when he got books from the cir-
culating library ; and thus, if all were not true, there
was not a. fact but what would lead to his detection.
He said the first information of his life being in dan-
gma came from the Sheriff or the Procurator Fiscal,
but he did not tell Mr. Drummond his life was in •
danger ; on the contrary, he kept up the idea, and .
allowed Drummond to draw his oven conclusions.—
The subject of the accusation, however, was this—
that as this Gentleman, Mr. Home Drummond, was
the Deputy of the Learned Lord, he was responsible
for the offers held out to the witness, is relating
to the promises of reward for giving his testimony.
He differed from the Learned Lord as to the law of
Scotland. If the witness had received any reward,
or promise of reward, for giving his mammy, his
evidence could not• be received. The Sheriff said he
could not be a witness of any thing that had been
done towards him ; so the Court decided, and so the
Learned Lord decides, and withdraws him. On what
grounds could the Learned Lord do this, unless he
discredited the witnessaaw that it was against the
law? Adverting to Burnet's book, which had been
alluded to, he disclaimed its being good authority,
nor was the case to which the Learned Lord referred;
but if the Learned Lord would state that it was the
law of Scotland, that he (Campbell, should be a wit-
ness, although he received reward, he would then
contradict him on the best authority, that of five emi-
nent Counsel of Edinburgh, whose names he would
not mention, or they would be perfectly satisfactory
to the House.—(Cries, of came, atone.) They hod
given their opinion to this effect, and also that Bur-
net was very incorrect. However, as Gentlemen
wished to know their names, he would read them.
They were Messrs. G. Cianstoun, J. aloacrieff, J. .a.
Murray, H. Cockburn, and Andaew Rutherford.—
(Loud cries o/ !sear, hear, hear.) —Ali these Gentlemen
would have disdained to set their names to any opi•
nion not founded on the law ; and he was desirous
that it should be examined how much such an opinion
lane on the present question. Was such a witness to
be put in the box, when it was known before hand
he could not serve the cause, or that before serving
it he must commit perjury ?--( Hear, hear, hear.).---
This was a dilemma from which the Learned Lord
could nee escape. The unexpected turn that had been
said to here taken place was, that the person on whose
testimony they most relied was rejected. The Hon.
Gentleman then entered into the details of a similar
case that had lately occurred in a civil action, when
the opposite Counsel said, that to give money to a
man to swear to a falsehood was a very bad crime,
but to preserve and protect the man, was finding out
a better way than the devil himself could have hit
upon to effect subornation; and the Chief Justice
added, that if such a practice were to be admitted,
1,000/. might be expected to buy false witnesses in
any case. This was the first time he had ever heard
it asserted that it was allowable to tamper with wai-
tresses ; and it' the House did not take proper steps op
it, there would not be a petty tracker in the law or
rttifogging attorneyin the kingdom, but what would
dank himself justified by its decision in carrying on
the practice. He therefore felt in his conscience, that
if the House did nut enter into this investigation they
would do the greatest disservice to the country that
could be imagined. Public justice was not a thing •
to be played or trifled with, assail our liberties de-
pended on its impartial administration, and above
every thing on the sacredness of the testimony of wit-
nesses. There had been a question put to him that
he must answer before he sat down. It was true that
Campbell had contrived to send to one of his-Learned
Friends a detailed statement in writing of what had
afterwards appeared as his deposition, and the way
he adopted was certainly ingenious enough, for he
had enclosed it in a roll of tobacco—/Hear, hear.)
At the consultation held upon it, there was only one
of the Gentlemen who believed the thing could pos-
sibly be truellear, hear.) They thought it to be
a- story made up, when, as the phrase is, the witness
WAS breaking down ;but they determined to reject his
eligibility as a witness:
Sir A. COLQUHOUN declared he had listened to
the grave charges of the Honourable Gentleman who
hadapoke last, but had never heard any that. were
more completely ill-founded for inducing the House
to agree to the motion of the Noble Lord. He did ,
not mean to say that -nothing had been brought fur-
ward that might gain the attention of the House ;
but the Noble Lord had said his object was to obtain
the ReCord, as he meant to represent the whole pro-
ceedings as criminatin" the conduct of the Noble
Lord.. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman proceeded
at some length to vindicate the character of the
Leatned Lord, and of all the Gentlemen concerned
in the prosecution ; and went over the same grounds
as the last- speaker, to shew that the . asses tion of
Drummond being fully persuaded Campbell's lila
was in danger, and his believing that he could not live
in the country, was utterly inconsistent and absurd,
as was particularly the statement that he offered him
a situation in the Excise, where he would have re-
mained as a marked individual. This pan of the
deposition bore internal evidence of its own fahc-
hood. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman noticed
various other points in the deposition, and con._
merited on their gross improbability, the whole of
which might be said to contain a few scanty ingre-
dients of truth in an overflowing cup of falsehood.
—He contended that the talker in question was en-
titled to give the Deponent protection, by sending
ban out of the country, but denied that it could be