Star.
London, England, 1816-03-12 00:00:00

were likely to agree, than defer the consideration tin.'
tilt ,ey mieht probably differ.
A ter a few welds from Lord Milton. and Lord,
F 1; manors,
L ,d CASTLEREAGH said, the question was
sot now whether you would reduce the number of
ton the amount of their pecuniary support
owl,' pledge the House to a too localized view
of the subjoct, by calling for a subdivision of their
anus on the whole details of the establishments.
.After a few words from Messrs. Tierney, Wynn,
and Lard Castlereagh, in explanation, the Gallery
ens cleared for a division on Mr. Wynn's Motion,l
but on our re-admission we understood no division
bad taken place, and that the motion was in substance
erred to. The House thee resolved itself into the
Committee
Lout PALMERSTON then proposed the first.
Reviution, that a sum of 0385.076 9s. 61 be given
for the support of the household troops from Decem-
ber 1815 to December 1816.
Mr. CA LCRAFT denied that any defence bad
been made oot to justify this enormous establishment.
Valet necessity was there for a larger force than ex-
isted in 1791, when three regiments were found suf.
eossit for all purposes of duty in • the metropolis ?
Ile would propose, that the Household Cavalry,
which were 1,744 in number„ be reduced one half,
they would then remain stronger than at the former
period. The Foot Guards were of no use but for pa-
rade, there were none now at Chatham, nor any ne.
cessity for a barrack force there in time of peace.—
In 1791, 3,765 men sras the strength of this body:
there were now 8,100. He would propose, that they
be reduced one half, both in number of men and
amount of expense—the establishment would then
stand at 4.050 men, and the amount £1 92,638 4s. 9J.
Lord CASTLEREAGH observed, that the Ho.
pourable Member had not stated the case in a pro-
per manner, even with a view to effect his own.pur.
pose. 'There were two questions—one was, as to the
numtsOr of men to be maintained—and the other, as
to the pecuniary branch of the establishment. Now
the Honourable Member wanted not only to reduce
the amount, but the gross number of the army, al-
though the House had actitally decided upon the lat-
ter proposition. (Hear, hear.) As to the Guards, it
was not usual to denominate them household troops ;
and so far from their b•iing kept up for purposes of
parade, one-fourth of them onre now actually serving
in France. (Hear, hear.) Tne Household Cavalry,
so tar from being parade troops, were admitted to be
the most effective in the service. Even in point of
economy, there would be no advantage in this reduc-
tion ; for, independent of the loss of military effi-
ciency that would follow the &version of such men,
the great expense of providing inexperienced substi.
totes would tar outweigh the proposed pecuniary ba-
lance. The country would, according to this system,
be disbanding men who cost from seso to .ElOO
nun to bring them to their present state of tope: ior
discipline; and, besides paying tho becessary pen
sinus to the disbanded men, they would have to raise
peasants by a high bounty, to supply their places.—
He also maintained that the state of 1791 was the pro.
per criterion fur the present establiOiment. The town
duty had since greatly increased. 'lhe Honourable
Gentleman had also alluded to Chatham ; but he,
from his residence in that neighbourhood, should have
known that the dock yards and tortitications required
a force of nearly one thousand men. If the Honou-
rable Gentleman's object was to reduce the number
of men on the establishment, he was about to fly in
the face of a PArliamentery grant already admitted—
and if his object vfere to reduce the expense of thel
estimate, he (Lord Castlereagh) was prepared to
thew that the reverse of economy would be he con.
equence of such a step. The difference between the
ordinary cavalry and the household corps, in point of
expense, did not amount in the main to more than
t 27,000 ; and of this a reduction was contemplated
by the Honourable Member, to restrict it to one•half,
tothat a saving of £3!i,000 only would ari..e out of
the measure. The t ence o expense between the
some number of dragoons and the lieu c ivalry,
s 4 those of the ordinary, was in the rate of 4:33,000
VI CHAN/ Now when this redaction was to be
famed by the sale of the dragoon hoists, which
Would be unfit for the lighter troops, to whom the
day most devolve, it. would be practically found to
loons the reverse of economy in its principle. (Hear,
fir.)
Mr. CALCRAFT, in reply, observed, that he
ll'ef saw the Noble Lord, even in his constant duty
of defending almost all questions, so driven for an ar-
gument as he was to-night. His speech went against
a. reduction. (Ilear.) asWill you (said the Noble
Lord) disband those men that have so gloriously ser-
ved, and sell those fine hones ?" Yes, he (Mr. Cal•
nth) "mild answer, and becatfse the object for which
tiny were embodied had been capered into full effect
by the return of a general peace. ( Hear, hear.) It
Ito* apreared that two thouvand of the Guards were
to in France. This alteration in their disPo-
I took place since the question was agitated in that
hive
• • (dear, hear.) The Hon. Member conclu-
ded. hy enforcing the principle of economy its the most
ti one details of the expenditure.
Lord PALMERS lON maintained, that the main
pation was, whether the household troops should
dnninished, for the purpose of introducing less ex.
Noise ones ? Now, it had been clearly thew.' by
Noble Friend, that no diminution of. expense coulli
hGuartepds
l.ice by this alteration. On the subject of the
being countermanded in their return from
France, he had only to say, that this arose front an
errorrc
e of his own, and that no alteration had taken
in the order of their first destination. The Noble
L:rd then denied that the Guards were considered as
stationary parade force—they had been sent to Ire-
and were •
still held dispos able for any particular
This mode of treating these men reminded
hiyear the
ti anecdote, that when the Guards; in the
11,1_,_17_,L, had marched from London to meet the
,°„ersa,7tae,people pressed round themoexclaiming—
,P. a e Cionds, pillars of the. State 1" 44 Yes, (re.
.v,:d shrewd soldier) we are pillars of the State,
that the rebels CI are at your door, but when our
atwas rebe
e, not wanted, we were catterpillors of the
%.• (4 lauh.)
Las% hi lOT 111./EN protested against 'the Noble
it'4rd',nuorguloe. argument, that because a saving was trifling
its
tit idea
unt, it our ht :lot to be made. He ridiculed
ca of kee • • •
I to.caose they were efffee.!
;'.()lt the pools to
Et. w0‘,,,43 ' t.f future war.
Arta stateO, goo; wlien said a difference