Star.
London, England, 1811-03-29 00:00:00

the plant Me ore eore had !lamely foe. else. oicted that it Was the enclple of elle.tenduCtot era
request of. k .11t tt he' newspaper.rather • lead., the public opi-
eesyEitry nitit:3h Jet Ath that ran le. ice now e held 'follow than
4 ' eiv It Ishii been easily observed, that 3 ro- .1110 - It -g'llt be then fairly inferred, that the nume-
in Is lie • . . .
: 't - the victoi .iif ratiosa - was Ittity'dne to the roes prosecutions- whieh had of late taken' rhice for.
I,Oft 0
Lae Commender in Chief. To
army,
The Country,' libels, bad been directed egaintt persons. whose sole
~wed the unilotm success of our army, whenever it guilt had been the giving, utterance to the popular
was emoloyed. (Hear, hear.) In his ophrien, Ge- tuitions of the times in which they lived. It would
eseal Graham was entitled to the thanks of the coup- appear, then, that it was the expression of the peri-
-1 for what he had pet formed, but for the pleedistentent which had called for such severe and
ti v, ROC on.y
et eripls weich his conduct had held out to the emu- :frequent inflictions by the hand of power ; end if
1 Jim of others. In him they saw a man who had such discontents were acknowledged to exist, (and he
;diminished all the comforts ef a domestic, life for did not see how "the admission could be avoided,) it
he stood of his country.
From the time of the behoved the House to explore its sources with all
fleench Revolution he had been moet active, when- possible patience and assiduity. An' entire people
ever he could be of service. Placed circumstances seldorwindulged in &mindless discontent. Man was
of peculiar disadvantage, he he'd not ceased to en- by nature indolent, and it required the exercise of se-
devour to &serve well of his countrymen, and man- vere oppression indeed to rouse him from the ease he
fulls' struggled against every difficulty, till at length loved, and impel him to engage in the turbulence of ;
his unremitting exertion placed him at the head of
*political conflict for the recover
thy of his rights. What 1
the profession of his choice. be.had stated with respect to e existing frequency
GeneraIFERGUSON spokein terms of the highest of prosecutions, ought, he conceived, as he had before
praise of the conduct of General Graham. . observed, to furnish a sufficient impulse to the House
Lord CASTLEREAGH could. not refrain from to acquiesce in his motion.—But there were other I.
expressing his satisfaction on the occasion. This was grounds, of not inferior' importance. Could the 1
ore instance among many others of the great resources power vested in the Attorney-General to harass every
of the Empire, in the valour and conduct of our individual who might incur the displeasure of Go-
army. Their superiority was so clearly, so unequi. . vernment, or
.his own displeasure, be contemplated
vocally established, that hereafter when British sol- by eny individual with feelings perfectly at ease ?
dicrs were led to battle by British Officers; we might This power had been, by a recent alteration in the
topes° with fullest confidence in the skill of our Com- law, extended much beyond its Original limits, and
menders, and the gallantry of cur troops. The ope- the instrument of oppression it furnished might be
tenon as °Agin-ally projected was, he thought, such terrible indeed if wielded. by tan his he he
feedsllow of a p
tier person
at well justified General Graham's Aiocurrence prone to the'infUcti of evil -cize.
therein. It most, however, he a sulajecr' the most In all cases,exeept that of information filed ex officio,
eratifeine reflection to the House to find, that if any where the individual had to enter into an unequal
, t e
circumstance of the war pieced our army in a skim- contest with the power of the Crown, all means were
jinn the most perilous (like that in which General 4eeorted to by which such inequality could be redu-
Graham had found himself), it still had in itself, and eil, otherwise the issue would he seldom dubious.—
it its Commanders, those resources of valour and of ; The lance of the
pigmy would be bat of little avail
wisdom which were sufficient to extricate it with againsts the mace of the giant ; but the law had fenced
glory. 1-le had not the honour of intimately know- the criminal around with forms, and advantages of j
ing General Graham, but he could not silently give i every kind were afforded him, sach as might enable I
his thanks on this occasion. It could not but add ; him to rely with safety on his innocence, if he had the
greatly to his honour in the view of the House, and ; rood fortune to possess it. It was particularly wor. ;
in the view of his profession, when his conduct was I thy of remark hove much less likely a person exposed'
Lode known. He had eagerly followed the duties to a prosecution for high treason, were to suffer pu-
cf his profession with the true spirit of a soldier, when I nishment unjustly, than one who might have render,
those rewards which animate others with hope ap- ed himself an object worthy the. notice of the A.ttor-
peered wholly out of his reach ; when he had every ney-General. In the case of the former, the magni.
reason to think he might live and die a Colonel, with. tude of the contingent punishment, and that of -
tot 'fleeing a prospect of attaining that rank which, the immediate consequences which his crime, if he
happily for the service, he had now gained, he had were guilty, might produce, would naturally fix
meted himself with as much ardour as if all the ac- upon him the eye of the Public ; and, from the
turnaiated honours the country could bestow were jealous vigilance of the Public, when once alarmed,
Ikely to reward his labours. That he had been pro- if innocent, he would be sure of finding protection,
rioted was u circumstance most satisfactory to every while the victim of an unjust prosecution for libel,
generous mind. Among-the numerous advantages might linger out the season of his c.iptivity unnoticed
cent-erred on the army by the late Commander in and unaided. It had been asserted, and with how
Chief, there was no one for which the profession was much truth it might be collected horn what he had
more grateful to that illustrious personage, than that stated, that more atrocious and violent exertions of
they owed to his having advised his Majesty to relax power were less dangerous to the liberty of the sub,
the severity of discipline in faVour of General Gra- ject, than those lesser terrors that encroached with
ham. The last military wish expressed by 'the brave silent, but with sure corrosion. He would agein re-
General Moore, was in favoye of General Graham. vert to the advantages possessed by the common felon,
eVnd bearing in mind, ell 'fie circumstances of his or individual accused of felony, over those persons
ceinduct, he was confident tltere could be but one feel- who might have the misfertune to be selected as the
isle in the House. fit objects of the vengeance of Government by the I
•Mr. FREEMANTLE expressed his concurrence Attorney-General. 'the simple illsc dixit of 1,10 Law
in the vote, but wished to be understood not giving Officer could decide as to their punishment, if it i
bp his claims to discuss the policy of the campaign. reached him ; it must reach him through a msdium
General TARLETON knew of no instance where such as could leave scarcely a doubt as to iteejustice.
gteater metit hed'be'ea'displayed 'on the part of the The unanimous voices of twelve men' must ilrst de-
General, the Officers, and the Army in general.— tide as to the probability of his guilt, twelve more as ;
The pressure on him had been very great, and it had to its actual emistence, and finally, in the oath and
!
been unexpected, yet he knew of no circumstance character of the Judge before whom he might be tried,
which had tended More to place British valour on the he would be sure of finding protection. Nor could
highest pinnacle of glory. he consider it as a matter to be overlooked, the pri- !
Mr. FULLER, when be beard the great victory vete advantage, the fees of office, which an Attar-
ttrst gained, as well as the triumphs by which it had i ney-General might derive from those ex-e icio prose-
been preceded, were in a great measure caused by the ! cutions. He would not impute such motives as hi
discipline introduced into the army by the late Com, had mentioned to the person who now exercised that
mander-in-Chief, could not help expressing a hope that high office—base lucre could never be his object—
he
would one day be restored to that situation which and the smallest insinuation to that effect would be
he had filled so much to the advantage of the coon- illiberal. The Hon. Gentleman, he was sure, would
try. As a man of common feeling, he could not re- agree with him in thinking thatnothing could be more I ;
frein from throwing out such a hope. 'Willi respect illiberal, nothing more base, than a random assertion !I
to the motion, it was one which afforded him the that base lucre was the stimulus of another's actions. I
greatest pleasure—" Good Goo!" exclaimed the Ho- He would proceed to point out another source of
nourable Gentleman, " Lcould hope to hear such danger to the subject, in the want of any species of
motions made every day." limitation connected with prosecution for Libel—no
The question was then put, and carried nem. con. prosecution for treason could take place in three years I
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER from the date of the allegedoffence, thelepse of asingle !
next moved the Thanks of the House to Brigadier- day was sufficient to preclude it; whereasthe Attorney
General Thomas Dilkes, and the Officers under his General was empowered to drag forth, whenever it
command.—This motion was also carried neer con. ! might be his pleasure to do so,. a State offender of
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER I ten, fifteen, or twenty years standing, whose punish-
then moved the Thanks of the House td the Non- I ment could answer no end but that of procuring the
commissioned Officers and Privates, at the same time !gratification of vengeance directed against some new
expressing the highest approbation of their conduct. ;offence, of not sufficient magnitude to justify the t
This motion was also carried nem. can. ; and the blow. Neither was there any limitation as to the
SPEA K FR was directed to communicate the same to 1 time of bringing the alledged libeller to judgment. !
Lieuteltant-General Graham. Vest and undefined as the powers were on which he
INFORNI ATIONS EX OFFICIO. had been animadverting, they were not deemed suf-
Shortly after our re- .dmissihn into the gallery, ficient trammels on the press. The publisher of
Lord FOLKESTONE rose, in order to make his ! every periodical work was obliged, previous to his in- i
long into need motion with respect to Informations • earring the displeasure if the Government, to fur.;
Sled ex eici9. Ills object, he observed, was to have nish the means ()Ellis own conviction, whenever he
laid before the House copies of all Information's filed might be unhappy enough to do. so—his name was
for libels in the course of the last ten yeasts, hi order to be regiseered at the Stamp-Office, ready for the
that it might be ascertained from the subssance of ' finger of the Attorney-General, whenever a selection
them, whet) er the privilege lodged in the hands of of victims might be thought requisite for an example
the Law Officers of the Crown had been abused. He ' and warning to those presumptuous persons who con-
would endeavour to explain to the House the motives ' ceived the free utterance of truth to be their birth-
which had impelled lino to' call for the papers in right. Another hardship under which persons prose-
question. For the thirty years which preceded the cuted by the Attorney-General laboured, was, the
year 1791, but seventy prosecutions for libels had mode of their trial. It had been the practice fur
taken place, little mote on an average than two each upwards of one hundred years, to try such causes
year : whereas in the three years 1808. 18t)9, and' by Special Juries ; and how much less they were
JBlO, there had been no less than forty-three prose- calculated to promote the ends of justice might be
cutions, which when divided gave fourteen to •each Collected from an interesting publication by a late
year. Now, whatever might be the ratio in which Sheriff of London. While in office, the applicants '
publications had increased in the lapse of theinterve- to serve on Special Juries were numerous, and the
ping period, no person, however disposed he might inference to be drawn f om them would receive
be to calculate in favour of ex ?Pie informations, additional force, it it was considered, that a Special
would venture to contend that such ratio was equal Jury was never permitted to try a came where
to that of the increase of prosecutions. This circuit). - the privation of life might be the rest It. The
stsnce sheuld alone suffice, in his opinion, to stimu- jet cf all the ancient statutes on the subject of Li-
late the House to an inquiry. The ceuse!of the pre-' bel was this—that .falsehood was meant to be the
sent frequency of prosecutions lay rernole from the standard of Libel—this was the jet of the old acts;
ken of the careless observer : if that cause were gene- at least such was the doctrine held by Powell and
rally discerned, much. greater importance would be Holt. Even as recently as 1792, the same doe-
attached to the investigation he proposed, than it was time was maintained, and questions were then put
probable he would be otherwise permitted to claim upon it to the Judges : therefore it was a hardship,
for it. In the course of a late trial, for a libel, which he must say, for a defendant, in actions for Libel,
had appeared ia the Day newspaper, it had appeared not to be admitted to prove its truth in justification.
from an atEditvit sworn by One of the persons con- It was no light aggravation, that the AttemeysGe.

neral had; or claimed to have, -the tight of reply, = though he would not go the length. to assert the such
in all trials for libel; when, finding himself rather I meesures were seggested by him as ;in ; •
s6II, he saw well there was but too moch kindness
foiled, he might bring forward unexpected additions
to the case. Neither was there any certainty in this towards all libels proceesling 1: ion the pens cf
kind of judgment. In 1774, the
late Earl Mans- Miiiisterial writers. What he wanted was fairness ir:
in a case of Mr. Horne Took, directed the these things ; and that tinder no pretence of brew rig,.
Jury to be governed by the evidence before tl.e.m, ref should criminal prosecutions be unfairly dealt out.
whilst Judge Buller afterwards completely swerved He *as feeelul that he had troubled the House too
from that rule; and the 33d of the present King long—(Hear, Lear, hear, hear).—and his only hope
authorised. the Judges to state to dimes not only was, that he had laid sufficient grounds for the mo.
facts, but the law on facts. The Judges 'did not tion he had resolved to submit. His Lordship Moved
appear to comprehend the spirit and design of that for an account of all prosecutions by es officio infor-
act : for, though he wished always to speak most mations, since the Ist of January, 1801, nith
.the
respectfully of them, Lord Ellenborough, in the case dates of each, and the proceedings had thereon.
of Cobbett, Once decided that if the private feelings The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied at great
of an individual were injured, since such injury ten. length to the speech of the Noble Lord. The object
ded to the infraction of peace, there was the begin. of the motion, he conceived, was to call in question
nine of the libel ; and yet, in the case of Carr against , the conduct of the Attorney General with respect to
Vernor and Hood, where the author (Sir John Carr) tx-egicie informations. The power of the Attorney-
was held rap to general ridicule, the same Judge con. General the Noble Lord had not denied, he had only
sidered the proceeding as riot libellous. The punish- i conte ided that that power was grosily abused. Had
Lee Noble Lord shewn that that power, in the hands
meat following libels was extreme ; not only were
the writers, printers, and publishers of what were of the Attorney-General, had been made an instru.
deemed legally libels, deprived of personal liberty, titeo: of oppression, he should not have said a single
but often of the very means of existence. He might I word'against the motion—but no such case had been
instance the case of White and Hart. The law, he made lut, and he trusted the House would indulge
knew, gave the right to punish ; but it never could him, while he endeavoured to prove that the power in,
intend, it never did, give the right tondo those whom trusted tothat situation which he had now the honour
it was designed equitably to punish. (Hear, hear, of holding, was not only necessary, but had never been
hear.) He might be told what he knew, that by him emplOyed, except tor the public good. Should
the House of Peers had asserted the right of the misconduct even be proved in the exercise of those
Judges to commit libellers, for the same crime, to functions which fell to his lot from the official situa-
distinct and distant gaols ; hut this was not the tion he held, that misconduct could not amount to any
spirit and intent of the old law of the land. The cause for restraining the exercise of a power necessary.
security taken, in cases of libel, had likewise become in itself, and beneficial to the public tranquillity. He
unprecedented : pod behaviour was an indefinite ex- • trusted the Noble Lord would not impute to him ant
pression, security was accordingly, in some cases, un. • wish or attempt to resist enquiry on this subject.—do.
attainable, and requiring such security was like pu. ! The Noble Lord had had every facility of obtainingli
fishing for life. (Hear, hear.) Felony was often official information, and every opportunity of select...
atoned for by iniprisonmont for the space of three ing the cases to which he had referred. The Noble
months; and an aggravated cage if a tape, where the Lord had laid before the House the number of infor-
Judge told the criminal he deserved to be hung, was • mations during the last three years, 'but neglected to
subjected to no more than two years of imprisonment. state the circumstances that led to those prosecutions.
Why, then, was the punishment of libellers made as Many of the topics introduced had no connection with
atrocious as in the abandoned and abominable case the question. TI:eo might thew that the proceedings
he had just alluded to ? (Hear, Hear). About two were legal, but could not shew that any illegal conduct
or three years ago, the Learned Gentleman (Attor- had taken place on his part. If the means adopted
ney-Oeneral) had brought in an Act to extend the were illegal, the Noble Lord might have proved them
provisions of the Act for punishing offences against so, without referring to him individually, He had
the revenue to libellous offences. He took shame so acted according to the law as it now stood, and if the
himself for not having more narrowly watched this law was wrong, a motion might have been made with-
Act at the time ; but who would have at once sus- out referring to him personally. The Noble Lord had
peered its :lino that those legislative provisions which stated the hardships to which perso:,s so prosecuted
applied only to offences against the Exchequer, the were exposed; but these must have been known to the
rescuing of smugglers, and resisting the revenue of- Noble Lord long before this day, and he might have
fleets in the execution of their duty, would be applied called for his remedy genet ally, without impeaching
to criminal informations for Libels ? This was, how- the conduct of any individual. The Noble Lord had
ever, as it were, constructively supported by the 26th endeavoured to shew, that in informations of this kind,
and 35th of die King ; and it was now in the power party influence, or that of the Crown prevailed ; but
of an Aaorney General to commence his proceedings his statements had not been borne out by matter of
when lie pleased, which, in fact, placed every indivi. , fact. He-defied the Noble Lord to produce any thing
dual at his mercy—Hear, hear, hear.) It that Hon. like influence against any class of men. There were,
and Loariied person happened not to relish a man'sion the contrary, no prosecutions conducted with more
mode of writing orspeaking, or, perhaps, his appear. I lenity than those on the part of the Crown, which,
once, there was no guessing what might take place. linsteadof exerting its influence to oppress, endeavoured
Instead of this act having done good, it had done only to punish so as to correct the offender. (Hear,
harm ; the number of offences and informations had hear.) He believed that there was not a man, what-
increased, and it had become necessary to look to its ever might be his strength of nerve, who would dare,
effects. He was one of those who could nct help occupying the situation he did, to abuse the trust re-
thinking that the power of the Attorney-General posed in him. Was these any prosecutor more watched
had been exercised partially and abusively. Lord . than the Attorney-General ? Was there any man
Holt, Mr. Dunning, Mr. Burke, and other great more likely to guard against every deeiettion from strict
men, had called into question the legality of ex- duty, liable as he was to be called to a strict account ?
°Pio informations : he might be suffered to have He asked the House if there was wanting either abi-
some doubts on that subject, though he did not mean I lity or zeal on the,part of Gentlemen disposed to make
to question it. There were some of those general such enquiries ? (Hear, hear.) Such, indeed, was
reasons which induced him to submit the motion he the zeal on the part of some Gentlemen, that even
was about to make.. The cases which might he con- human infirmity itself would not be admitted as are
strucd to favour the way of proceeding by criminal I apology. It had been insinuated by the Noble Lord
information were neither numerous nor satisfactory,+ that the fees of office might be an inducement to
ncr would Blackstone sanction the use to which that i increase those prosecutions, though he had, at the
proceeding was now put. Blackstone stated, that the same time, done him personally the honour to believe
offences must be against his Majesty, each as to en- that no such motive could operate with him. Was
danger his authority, and the punishment of which . it for a moment, however, to be believed, that the
could not admit of a moment's delay. Looking to little dirty fees of office could influence any man, on
facts, it would now be found that libellous offences , questions of so much importance ? Could it be sup-
were sometimes not tried at all, and that great delays posed that any man would undertake ptoeecutions of
had taken place in most cases—(Hear, hear, hear.)— • this nature fur the sake of pocketing the little dirty
Yet did those who had Criminal Informations filed tees by law attached to them ? (Hear, hear.) He
against them, but who were not brought to trial, forgot whether it was 13s. Sd. or 6s. .I,d. the Attorney
incur no punishment? (Hear.)—llid those who had General was allowed on such occasions, but it could
been tried, and acquitted, feel nothing—neither the not bebelieved thatanyman would institute a criminal
torture of suspense, nor the cost of cash ?—(Hear,' proceeding from either of those motives, without sonic
hear, hear.)—He had knowledge of a case in which regard to his duty, and some respect for the public
the person charged with libel was acquitted, but his ° good. When such a cha;ge WAS alledged so unwor-
expences amounted to seBo, and was this money nitre; thy of a man of any common feeling, he could not
thing to a person who wrote for his bread ? F0r...! even condescend to defend the honour and, the mo-
merly there was a great jealousy even as to come tines of those who had held, or might hold the situ-
liounding of Criminal Informations : now, might ation he now occupied. He knew well, however,
not many persons be inclined to think that the Attor- the quarter from which this imputation had been
ney,General had been guilty of an additional misde- suggested. The Noble Lord had been informed,
meanour; in dins compounding with particular news- there was no doubt, that he (the Attorney General)
writers, apd inducing them to espouse his side in poll- in a late trial, ha 4 stated that the course pursued by
tics? (Ifear, hear.)—If Gentlemen paid attention to the party accused was to promote the profit of his
the prosecutions instituted by the Attorney General, paper. The Noble.Lerd had taken this opportunity
they would find them to have been principally against of retaliating, but he was sure it could not, for a mo.
individuals who were opposed to Ministers ; though meat, be in the breast of the Noble Lord to im-
there were writers on the_ other side, and in favour of pute such motives to any man in the situation he
them, who had published indecorous things, which, if had the honour of occupying. He did not think it
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman desired only to was liberal to bring the two cases together, and no
preserve the King's peace, he ought to have erosecii- man in the House, he was certain, would think them
ted. (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord (Folkestone) similar. The Noble Lord had mentioned another
now instanced the noli prosequi in favour of the Morn- circumstance, es adding to the oppression of offen.
ing Post ; the case of Cobbett, whose agents were im- ders, in such cases, that no given time for trial was
phcated with him ; that of the Statesman, and of the fixed, and that the offenders were still liable, however
Examiner ; whence he inferred the uncertainty of the long the prosecution might be deferred. Did any
law respecting Libels, the injustice of not always man believe that offences, however stale, were not to
taking the author of a Libel as the sole object of pu. be punished? After such an insinuation, it would
nishment, and the want of impartiality in not pit- scarcely he credible to the House that he had never
nishing Libels without any deference to political filed any information without following it up, as soon
parties. Why, he asked, were several prosecutions as the time would permit for due investigation. He
for libels dropped, which had been commenced just had never allowed more time to elapse than was ne-
before his Royal Highness the Duke of York re- csssary for the discovery of the circumstances, and
signed his situation as Commander in Chief. Per. the production of the proper and necessary evidence.
sons there were, however, who seemed licensed to li. Another charge had been brought by the Noble Lord
bet all the Royal Family, as he thought, had. been against the-administration of the law in general, ac-
etone in the Courier, in a cei Lain paragraph descrip. dug both Jodcs and Juries of partiality in favour
Live of a College of Princes. (Hear, hear,, /lean).— of the existing iorreentrient. He had stated to the
Not that he conceived so indecent a paragraph was house that the Special Juries were selected, and had
worth prosecuting ; but he did not wish that the At- a personal interest in being subservient to the Court.
torney Getieral would be more impartial in the ap- Ile had stated further, that the officer calling and se-
plicaeion of his rule—that he would prosecute all lecting these Juries was under the iniiucnce of the
bellers, without preference or partiality (Hear, hear.) Crown. The Noble. Lord's information on the sub-
He had spoken of the Attorney-General as to his re- ject, he contended, was incorrect. The officer allu-
sponsibility for these prosecutions, ared he trusted he ded to was no more under the influence of the Crown
would.always. b.:: made respoasible to that House, than any of the Judges. He was an officer appointed

'

1

few life, and thereihre ay ndependent of the Crown as
any Judge on the beo h. With respect to the person
that now filled that situation, there was not a more
honourable man in existence. The Noble Lord
bad stated that Special Juries were selected by the
Court, but this was by no means the case. The Spe-
cial Jurors were taken from the fieehold book, and the
officer whose province it was did not let even the Court
' know where he opened the book. He opened it at diffe-
rent parts, and took names to the amount 01'48, which
were afterwards reduced to 24, and on the day of trial
to 12. The Noble Lord had also gone into a state-
ment of cases, in which different judgments had been
given. It was impossible at present to enter into this
I discussion, and it certainly was not relevant to the
subject before the House; but, making allowance
• for human infirmity, it would be found that the
I same principle was acted on, and that the desire
of justice had uniformly animated the Judges in the
discharge of their public duty. Justice Holt, who
had been referred to, was of opinion, even in his
day, that the licentiousness of the press called for as
much severity as was practised at present. The
Noble Lord had stated, with some address, that
White and Hart were sentenced to three years im-
prisonment. t Lord Folkestone here corrected him-
self by, whispering across the House two years.] He
heard the Noble bird now say two years, but these
two years were not for one libel, but for two, and
of so gross a nature, that none who looked at their
conduct would find any ground of accusation against
the Judges for imposing this sentence. (Hear,
ker.) —lt had been stated by the Noble Lord
• t* mockery, that persons in such cases had the
"Wiit of a writ of error, because no redress could
„,possibly be obtained, according to the present sys-
tern, of appeals before the Lords, till after the pe-
riod of their confinement had expired. The Noble
Lord; however, was in this case incorrect. Why did
he forget that both White and Hart had the benefit of
their writ of error, and that theirs being a criminal
case, had the precedence of others, though the appeal
had no effect ? If it was the object of the Noble Lord
to make them believe that the criminal law was not
duly administered, why did he not make a motion to
that effect, or state some precise case in which the
principles of criminal law were violated ? The Noble
Lord had stated, that the hardships of persons pro-
secuted by informations ex officio were aggravated by
a Bill which he (the Attorney-General) had intro-
duced about three years ago, which gave him the
power, the Noble Lord stated, of throwing. any of his
Majesty's subjects at pleasure into a prison, unless
he was able to find bail. He thought the Noble
Lord had here made a slip, till he had heard him
add that he had placed, by this Bill, every subject
at his own controul. He surely could not misunder-
stand the Noble Lord ; but it was by no means cor-
rect that he had that power ascribed to him. The
law gave him him no such power. The power of hold-
, ing to bail rested with the Judges, and not with the
Attorney-General. The Judges were to exercise their
discretion, and did not exercise even that power with-
out the necessary affidavits, stating the circumstances
of the case. In proof of this, he mentioned the case
of a man who, while ant information was pending
against him, published a second libel, and was brought
before Mr. Justice Le Blanc, who held him to bail.
No power was now exercised that had not always
been enjoyed, even by Justices of the Peace. If the
Noble Lord looked back, he would see that no power
was exercised now, that had not been exercised before
by every Magistrate. A similar Bill had been intro-
duced into the Lords by LordEllenborough in 1804,
and the only ground of laying it aside was the pro-
priety of such a measure originating in the Commons.
(Hear, hear.) After a great deal of matter that had
no bearing on the question, the Noble Lord had call-
ed on them to vote for his motion as founded in good
sense. The ground given for this, motion was a
charge against him of oppressive conduct, and the
great number of informations that had taken place
within the last three years. It had not been stated,
however, that he had been guilty of any improper
exercise of his official duties. He reminded the House
that the Noble Lord had every facility at getting at
the number of those informations, and had certainly
the same opportunity of learning the causes that led
to them, though these causes he had not stated,
contrary to what he should have expected, from the
assiduity and even curiosity of the Noble Lord, who
could not fail of looking into the causes as well as
number of those informations. On this subject however
they had not heard a word. (Near, hear.) The House
he trusted. would not deal so harshly with any man
in bin situation as to judge him guilty on such slight
and unsatisfactory grounds. The great question to
bcconsidered, was not the number, but the causes off
the informations. If offences of this nature had in-
creased, the increased number of informations would
necessarily follow.—( Hear, hot-J.—Hence arose the
difficulty of the situation he had the honour to fill,
and it would be unsafe and impolitic to pass over
such offences. This would only give rise to a more
frequent repetition of the offence, and he had no doubt
that White and Hatt bad believed that publications
of this nature would be. passed without notice, and
had even urged that such offences had not' teen
prosecuted previous to that time. In what situa-
tion then was the Law Officer of the Crown. If
he did not prosecute, he was accused of holding
out, by his practice, an immunity, and, consequent-
ly, an encouragement to offenders ; and if he did
prosecute, he was accused of acting with severi-
ty. He trusted that the House would think some
farther grounds necessary, before they gave their
assent to such a motion, and that some particular
cases opght to be pointed out where prosecution had
unfairly taken place. (Hear, hear.) In stating 42
informations to have taken place, the Noble Lord had
stated the number of individuals, and not of different
libels If the libels were looked into, there would be
found during the time specified not more than 18, andl
this number could not be regarded as extraordinary, if'
they considered that there were not less than between
2 and 300 publications weekly in London alone, tak-'
ing the daily and other weekly prints. Ot these 18
cases of libel-some had been found by the verdict 41
the Jury, and in some judgment had been allowed
to go by default. In three of the cases the defen-
dants had made a satisfactory apology, and therefore,
all further proceedings had been dropped. He trus. I
ted that it would not be imputed to him as a severity,
- - .

,

i

C

111

••••
•

or not, he should not say.
licitor-General and himself, proceedings were
layed till a prosecution should be instituted against
Mr. Roach, if not against Jeffers. Captain Roach,
however, had in the mean time, softened the Trans-
port Office, and was called to foreign service. Was 1,

therefore, said the Learned Gentleman, to be blamed
in not proceeding farther in such circumstances ?
(Hear, hear.) Another instance of partiality had been
unjustly imputed to him, with respect to the gross
and abusive libel on the Commissioners of the Pro-
The Noble Lord had sta-

perty Tax in Lancashire.
ted, that the author was known, and had mentioned
his name ; but this could only be from private infor-
mation ( Hear, hear) ; and it was well known that they
might have such private information, and not be able
at the same time to adduce legal evidence so as to
obtain a verdict. The Noble Lord had insinuated,
that the prosecution against Collier had been dropt ;
but, on the contrary, it was now going forward, and
in•the course of things he would be brought to a trial.
His severity to Lovell had been mentioned, while the
country publishers had not been proceeded against :
but it ought to be recollected, that Lovell, in the
Statesman, added remarks of his own, which were
more offensive than the original ; and besides, he
would not have had sufficient evidence against Col-
lier, without the country publishers—which was a
sufficient reason for dropping farther proceedings
against them.—He concluded, by contending that the
press laboured under no sort of oppmsion that all
due liberty was permitted to writers on all subjects,
as appeared every day from the public prints. No
good ground had been shewn for the motion, nor
had the Noble Lord made it, in any instance, appear
that he had violated his duty, and those obligations
be owed to the public.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT really felt that an
apology was necessary for trespassing further on the
time of the House, after the able statement of his Noble
Friend near him, and the very inadequate answer of
the Learned Gentleman. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, after the manner of his profession, seized
the but abstained from every important

minor points,
topic. Considering the great number of Learned
Gentlemen among them, he really expected that some
new light would have been thrown on the law re-
specting this momentous subject, when the anxiety of
the country was raised to such a pitch, and the liberty
of the press so much concerned. The Noble Lord
had displayed great knowledge of the subject, and
accompanied his statements with argument. He had
indeed proved the illegality of this mode of prosecu-
tion, though with that modesty which generally ac-
companied merit, he had expressed himself doubt-
fully. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman's
speech was of a very different description. He had
set out with a sweeping assertion, that it had been ad-
mitted on all hands that the Attorney-General pos-
sessed this power. The Noble Lord had made no
such admission, but had contended that no Attorney-
General could, by law, have such power. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman felt -indignant a the- id..,
that the paltry tee of 6s. Bd. should have been consi-
dered as any inducement to resort to information

rather than indictment. No—the Right Hon. Gen.
tleman would certainly not be influenced by such a
paltry fee : but persons in his situation might be led
away by objects of greater magnitude—to the desire
of obtaining which the imputation of a love of filthy
lucre might no less aptly be applied. He thought
Attorney-Generals must be glad of getting rid of such
a power as this, which was contrary to law, and to
common sense, the foundation of all law. The an-
swer to a charge of suffering a long time to elapse
between the publication and prosecution was unneces-
sary, because no such charge had been made against
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman personally. But
the Noble Lord's speech consisted of two Rarts—the
first shewing the impropriety of allowing such a power
to exist in the hands of any Attorney-General ; and
the second, relating to •the abuse of the power by
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He might not
file an information after a long lapse of time,but neither
he nor any other ought to have such a power—and
this was what the Noble Lord contended for. But
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had not said, our
word upon a very heavy charge—that of dealing ow
a different measure to those who supported the Ad-
' ministration and those who opposed it. The lionens-

e

•
resisted that
lenity, but he trusted from no improper motive& If able Baratet thee dwelt with great force on the col Idasmahies hat a amitotic= part 'Why dies leol.
the Noble Lord was prepared to state so, let him certainty of the law of libel. Nobody blew what tam to lay it Were the House.- - (Neer, koo_h
make the charge directly, and he was ready as directly it erase-ledges sitting on the same bench differed must
bersbe frodshavi:
claimedthe rolleetrespeasien
Imo! thtlooHnoesomese, thee:
to deny it. The author of the Independent Whig, to about it. Lord Coke appeared to consider truth as al Allem..
whom he was not likely to be accused of sbewiog )ustification-4ot some of his cotemporaryJudges tiff- . tampons, while tbry have strenuenely
i
any unfair partiality, had been guilty, after the fired from him. -Some had thought the publication enquiry by which alone they could be made re.
Duke of York's business, of what be conceived to meat be proved false and malicious, while one Judge, sponsible. He believed the suspicions entertained of
be a libel ; and on having filed an informatioll winst maintained that the most honest paper might be a , his HonourableFriend were unfounded, but
him, it was represented to him by the Editor's Cun. libel. Lord Holt in a trial for libel said, "
.bring ' ought to be removed. It would be said the=
sel, that any farther period of imprisonment would your witness and prove the truth of what you have ' boas would not be refused, if they were not unit.
prove a severe hardship, and be extremely prejudicial said ;" words without meaning, unless he considered I vourable. By his vote be was degrees that this mat.
to the state of his health. It was also stated, that he truth a justification. Now, however, it was a libel to 1 ter should be clearly ascertained. The licentiousness
was ready to apologize, and he therefore dropped the hurt the feelings of an individual I That this Was any I complained of was an additional reason for investiga.
prosecution. He had no doubt that the House would, law at all, he totally denied. The most arbtry go- don, in order that the present state, of the press might
in this case, acquit him of any improper motive ;he vernment could not desire a greater power that be imowne after the many restraints imposed upon that
was glad to have an opportunity of chewing the lenity of a power ef incarcerating upon mere information. ' liberty by several statutes, it was in his mind rather
he did, and particularly with respect to the party con- The Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman was lenient in need of encouragement than depression. The well
cerned. There was one case still pending for trial, it appeared, when the alledged offenders bowed to his ! known effect of those statutes, and the proceedings
sine two that were not yet in a state to be brought authority—but severe against those who write only i liken upon theta, was to deter Booksellers, even in
forward. He would not conceal from the House that what they thought just and honest, and maintained it. publications of the. most innocent nature and ten.
the question respecting the Duke of York gave rise The only case in which he had exercised this power dency. The opinion of former Law Officers of the
to many cases that were afterwards stopped ; but if j was one of the latter kind. The Honourable Baronet Crown had been freely given upon the subject of
the House recollected for a moment the state of the ', next contended, that libel was but a modernoffence in publications, and he knew that it had been 4 maxim
public mind at that time, and the nature of the inves- I, law. It was contrary to the great charter, which re. with some to hold Booksellers and Publishers in awe,
tigation that took place before the House. they could i quired, that no man should be taiga without the judg. under the pretext that by so doing libels would be less
not fail of approving of his conduct in dropping those ment of his Peers—and " the law of the land" ap- frequent by holding them responsible. But he thought
prosecutions. The Noble Lord had stated, that it was plied equally to the grand and petty Jury. How any ' the principle unjustifiable, and that the administra.
in the power of the Attorney-General to keep a pro- one might be held to bail, which was in fact im- tion of justice should be carefully watched : it was
secution hanging over a man's head, and after a long prisonment by the Attorney-General, for the Judge the more incumbent to do so Worn the state of the
delay to resume it at pleasure. Had a charge of this would not be much inclined to refuse full credit to his law which makes the business, in all its departments,
nature been brought against him, there might have information. When the person accused of libel was ' extremely dangerous, so mucli. so indeed, that if the
been some room for discussion ; but no such charge once in their clutches, they passed sentences which law should be strictly enforced, no Printer could with,
had been alledged. The Noble Lord had alledged were hardly ever used in cases of high crimes. The Assiut atirliefity its himself engage is it. The powers
i that some prosecutions had been dropped because the very term libel was not law. When burglary and other ,of his Majesty's Au.oreey-General should undouse,
parties had afterwards changed sides in politics ; but crimes were mentioned, one knew w at they were. '
edly be exercised with great discretion, and he did
the language of the Noble Lord was so unintelligible But libel meant nothing or any' thing. It was a book lest doubt but in the present instance they would be
that he could form no idea of any case to which he which displeased the Attorney-General—for which he ;found to be used with discretion, but he thought that
alluded. The Noble Lord had chirged him with might imprison. at his pleasure, being the Judge of the the House should be put in possession of such infor.
partiality in the case of a Morning Paper, because amount of bail. He might put off the trial as often as raation as would enable them to come to a proper
finding the case depending w::en he came into office, he pleased, it the Jury was not complete, and he be- judgment upon this subject.
he did not follow it up. He wished the Noble Lord lieved, even if it were. There was, indeed, no end to 1 Mr.. ELLIOT made a. short speech ie favour of
had made more enquiry on this subject. The prose- such a power with an offence so uncertain as libel. It the law of libel as it now stands, and contended that
cution was instituted in 1806, when his Right Ho- was impossible for any one to know whether he had ;it should not be altered on weak grounds. The No.
nourable Friend occupied the office of Attorney-Gene. done any thing that subjected him to punishment or j ble Lord's objections rested peon two positions, both
ral. Mr. Jeffers, the author, was abroad, and Capt. not. The Hon. Baronet then stated, that he had from lof than untenable, namely, Illegality or abuse • bet
Roach refused to make any apology, whether proper curiosity, gone to the Crown Office to see the manner neither had been proved. The law Lad subsisted: for
By the advice of the So. of striking the Jury, to - the action between himself ja' e time, and in his opinion an Attorney-General
all de- - ' the Sr " - for l _

tri
and _ opeaker, and 'lse found that the plan was
the Master to take such as he pleased from the book
—the addition of Esquire being the distinction of Spe-
cial Jurymen. There was besides, he understood, a
select list of 400 persons anxious to serve as Special
of trade. A

Juries, which had become a son __ great !
number of persons connected with Government, by ,"
some motives of interest, were sure to be na that list, I
and they might, no doubt, from that circumstance.
as well as from a desire of being often employed as
Jurymen, have a bias to give a verdict to

long
ought to be invested with some share of discretionary
power. The presumption, he also contended, was in
favour of its being used 4iscreetly from the controul to
which it was subject. He thought the general result
favourable to the liberty of the subject; he never knew
- ill follow from it. He concluded by condemn.

any b to
ing the licentiousness of modem publications, and de-
claring his intention therefore of voting against the
motion.
Mr. YORKE expressed great satisfaction at the
present ; though adverse to tht proposition

discussion -
of the Noble Lord, he was glad that he had brought
it under the consideration of the House, inasmuch as
it called forth those learned observations of the At.
torney-General, from which he derived so much in.
formation. He proceeded to state that the best me.
shod to preserve the freedom of the press was to curb
its licentiousness, and in opposition to an Honourable
Baronet he would say, that if the pen should be found
as mischievous as the sword, he saw no reason why it
should not be equally punished, and intention was in
his mind a wrong criteljani, and ought not to be
pleaded in justification.
Lord FOLKESTONE replied to the arraments
of the Attorney-General, and the Gentlemen on the
same side. It had been said that be had stated no
grounds for his motion, but he had stated grounds both
of a general and a particular nature. With respect to
the latter, the papers it furnished would give the
necessary information. He conceived himself audio-
rised in asserting that he spoke from authority in what
he had stated, and the evidetke of that would be
found in the Attorney-General not following up the
prosecutions which he had commenced. As to what
had been said, therefore, of the satisfaction of an apo-
logy, he thought tha,t, no grounds for giving up a
prosecution once commenced, for that he ought to
have examined. And as he has stated the increase
of libellous matter, and the increased disposition of the
people to libel, he thought it necessary for him to sub-
stantiate the charge, and prove by something better
than assertion, that from that cause it arises, that the
.1 'els of 1806 are in - to those of 1810, as n to

1.1

agreeable
Government. In his case, he believed, the Jury
were struck without any prejudice against him. He
only objected to the mode. They might have been
taken from the select list. The Honourable Baronet
then stated, that the law of libel arose from the sla-
vish civil law, and even there libel.was an abuse of the
law. Tacitus mentioned, that the perversion began
in the reign of Augustus, and it was carried there to
such an extent, that not only writing and speaking,
but even looks, sighs, groans, and tears, became the
ground of prosecution. The practice had been carried
to such an extent equally ridiculons and barbarous in
the reign of the Smarts in this country. It had been
deemed a libel to drink to the pious memory of Ste-
phen College, and an Anabaptist was considered as
having published a venomous libel, in'saying, that
baptism ought to be performed at the age at which
the Apostles baptized. Mischief might be done by
a pen as well as by a dagger, and then he thought
punishment should follow. But then malice ought to
be proved, as in the prosecutions for other crimes.—
He concluded by declaring his approbation of the
motion, more particularly as he considered it but as a
step to a reform of the law, or rather practice of libel.
Mr. STEPHEN defended the conduct of the At-
torney-General, and stated, that though he had paid
, great attention to the speech of the Noble Lord and ,
the Hon. Baronet, he could see no foundation what-
ever for the charge. That ex cluip informations were
as ancient as the common law of the kingdom, and
sanctioned by repeated Acts of Parliament. He
should not follow the Hon. Baronet into the Roman

and Imperial Law ; the question was, Whether any
reason had been shewn why the present motion should
be acceded to ?—The Noble Lord who made the mo.
tion appeared to him to have contradicted himself in'
the course of his argument, one part of which an- I
swered the other. There was not a single instance
in which the party who thought himself aggrieved
might not, by a writ of error, bring it before the
Lords, as had been done in a recent example. If
the Honourable Baronet were not conscientiously ad-
verse to prosecutions for libel, he certainly would
have prosecuted in a recent case of a libel against
himself. The Honourable Member here read certain
expressions put by the newspapers into the mouth of
the Hon. Baronet on a late occasion, and which he
maintained were grossly libelous. Even in what had
been termed the purest periods of our Government;
the punishment for libel had been mere seven
thee it was at peseta. -(lof.this the Hon. Member
gave a number of examples from the reigns of Wil-
liam and Mary, Queen Anne, and George the First
Second ; and concluded with observing, that the

lil 1n proportion
14. What had fallen from an Hon. Baronet he con-
ceived unanswerable ; he thought it unnecessary forhirn
to add to these observations. He gave the Hone urable
and Learned Gentleman credit for great politeness,
and for freedom from such unworthy motives as he
had supposed that he (Lord Folkestone) bad ascribed
to him. Nothing could be further from his.thuught
than to ascribe filthy lucre as a motive for any of
his actions I though he would take the liberty of
saying, that he wished that a certain friend of his
had experieneed similar liberality from him. That
friend was Mr. Cobbett, on whom his Lordship be-
stowed many encomiums, both on account of his
public and private character. His Lordship touched
'upon many of the topies.of his preceding speech, and
dwelt much upon the practice of suspending prose-
cutions, and occasionally for motives with which the
p.ublic are aactuaiate4, omitting them altogether.
By ihe'Acrof theinth of his present Majesty, he
thought that it was in the breast of an Attorney-Ge-
neral to commit.any man. Affidavit of an informa-
he believed, evidence which a Judge must

and _ _.si ; ana c0n5......'._ . _
..,, %.•_
legality of the powerwas not more questionable than
the moderation with which it ,was exerted. The Hon.
Gentleman was against the motion.
Mr. PETER MOORE observed, that the freedom
of the press had grown with the growth of the em-
pire ; that an alarm had gone forth and struck a
great panic among the Booksellers (latuthing), and that
Spain was a dead weight upon us because she had
not a free press.
Sir S. ROMILLY said, he should state very short-
ly his reasons for assenting to the motion. Whatever
had been said on the other side, tended to prove its
reasonableness and propriety, as nothing should be
secret, that involved our political, civil, and religi-
gious liberties. If there were no foundation for any
charge against the Attorney-General, why refuse to
accede to the motion l All that the House had heard
was a statements of fasts on one side, and a contrary
Itllat
statement on the ether. Out of these it was neves-
. yto extract the truth by the production of the pa.
pen moved for. No one cot 4 know the contents
of these libels, or how long they had been suspended
over the heads of the accused. From the statement of i
• I the Attorney•Gtneral, be had acted not only an ua-1 g 4;
Pd. 114.40.0-
yes ilfs: a, aserdpesik.
•
_ -

tion was, ___
admit. He mentioned the case of Gorman, a printer,
as a grievous abuse of the power of that Act of Par.
liament. Resting his case upon the proofs he had
advanced, none of which had been refuted, he would
leave the question to the House.
Mr. GEORGE ADAMS spoke on the same side.
The question was then loudly called for, and the
House divided.—For the motion 96—Against it 119
..—Maiovitv against the motionl3B.—Adjourned.

Cease aissos Uses-too—At the close a the poll the numbers
were for Lord Palmerstooe 459—Mr. Smyth 341—Msjoril
for
Lord'P. 112, when he was declared duly elected.
Comm MARILIT, MARIC-LANt, MAIMS 29.—This day we
have tolerable remaining supplies of Wheat, and owing to the late
Still stocks of Pour, .very few sales are erected, excepting for
fine samples which maintain last prices.—Bar lay buoy sale at our
last geotatioa—Malt and White Pen vary but little--New Tick
Beans ors. to 376.—01d,as last--There me likewise tolerable re.
Ruining tampliaa of Oats ; fine [Wily keep their price, and second,
With Inferior, somewhat lowee-4.10ur remain at ear late prices.
YKICE UV STOCKS 'IRIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK.
Caw* money, 843 —f mow, 64 SS
Navy 3 Per Cent. 1176
'ash. 80. pee 2s. 4s. pew.—Bond 4la. Us. prem.

I,IIIII.IEISIT, a the STA&
la wTeasph Pon