Star.
London, England, 1821-05-12 00:00:00

STATE OF EUROPE.

On the Order of the Day being read for going into
the Committee of Supply,
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON rose, and said he very re-
cently endeavoured to call the attention of the House
to the state of Europe. If anything could be more
alarming than the acts which had been done by fo-
reign Powers, it was the pretensions which were put
forth, having the sanction and authority of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers in that House. As the Noble Mar-
quis had come forward and declared the sentiments
of the Government on that subject, on Monday last,
when he had no opportunity of replying to him, he
should feel it his duty to record his own sentiments
on the Journals of the House. It had been his inten-
tion to have gone into the subject at length this even-
ing ; but the late hour of the night, and having been
requested by several Gentlemen (particularly by one
peculiarly qualified to take part in the discussion) to
postpone it, he felt it incumbent on him to comply
with their wishes; and though it was painful to him
to defer the consideration of the question so long, yet
on looking to the Order Book, he could find no open
day before Tuesday, the 2'2d instant, on which day
he should have the honour to bring it forward.

SUPPLY.

On the motion for going into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. HUME could not suffer the Speaker to leave
the Chair without exposing the extravagant scale of
the Ordnance Estimates. The present vote would be
for £1,327,000, and that too in the present distressed
state of the country. In 1820, it was £1,381,000;
but in 1817, the sum was £1,283,000. He entered
into a variety of calculations, to shew that, in his
opinion, no intention of economy existed on the part
of his Majesty's Government. He went through his
former statements as to the savings that might have
been made by the reduction of numerous agents and
store-keepers. These Estimates he characterized as
being like a tailor's bill—a great deal too long. New
clerks were put on, and then, in a short time, they
were suffered to go on half-pay; while other new
clerks were put in their rcom, on full pay. The Se-
cretary for the Ordnance had said, that sixty-eight
agents and clerks had been reduced ; but he (Mr.
Hume) believed they had only been removed to half-
pay, while sixty-seven new ones had been put on full
pay. This Estimate was £43,334 more than the ave-
rage of the three last years ; and he did say, it was
monstrous to be called at this time to vote such a sum
out of the public money. He then read a series of
Resolutions, recommending economy to the Com-
mittee on the Ordnance Estimates.

Mr. R. WARD said, if the object of the Honour-
able Gentleman had been to record his opinion on
the Journals, he would prefer taking the debate in
the Committee.

Colonel DAVIES thought it would be better to
tike the debate now, and the Estimates on Monday,
or any other day.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought the
debate had better be taken in the Committee.

Mr. BENNETT thought on the contrary.
Mr. It. %V AltD then said, that his answer to the
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) was, that these. appear-
ances arose from the fact of the Ordnance Office
being obliged to make up their accounts every year ; a
considerable part of the excess which had been com-
plained of arose from balances brought from 1819 to
1820, and placed in that account. The Ordnance
had also performed business for the Treasury, and the
Military Civil Service, for which they had been paid.
This was never carried anywhere else but against the
Ordnance, and not against the Offices which had ad-
vanced those stims.

Mr. BENNE i T advised the Right lion. Gentle-
man to make out his accounts in a way more easily
to be understood by the PuLlic.

. . ~
Mr. R.VARD said he was itidined to do so. - ' The House then divided—For the Motion, lio—
the Amendment, 56—Majority, 54. -:
When strangers were admitted, the Howe was in
a Committee, and

Mr. R. WARD on his legs, opening the Ordnance
Estimates. The Hon. Gentleman commenced by
protesting against the petty warfare which some
Gentlemen seemed inclined to wage. He v islied to -
meet the question -broadly. The Hon. Gentleman
then proceeded to enter into some explanatbry re-
marks on the nature of the Ordnance Department ;
which, he said, was not confined, as some Honour-
able Gentlemen seemed to think, to keeping up a
corps of 8000 men. On the contrary, the Ordnance
Department comprised a Military Depot, a Military
Manufactory, an Audit, and Department of Ac-
counts, &c. In the time of Cromwell this Depart-
ment expended, exclusive of half-pay, £122,000;
now, exclusive of half-pay, the expenditure was not
more than £1,000,000, a sum not equal to £122,000
in 1652. With respect to the extra expenditure of
this Department, he took some credit co himself on
that head ; for, at the conclusion of the American
war, the Ordnance Department was £1,700,000 or
£1,800,000 in debt ; at the conclusion of the late
war they did not owe a single pound. One obser-
vation was necessary, as regarded the charge of
stores. From the time of Queen Anne down to
1818, half the charge for stores was charged on the
Naval Estimates, but in 1818, in consequence of a
recommendation ofa Committee, the whole expense of
stores was thrown on the Ordnance, by which an an-
nual expense of £53,000 was cast on this Department.
This had destroyed the appearance of reduction upon
the whole vote. Yet a reduction had in fact taken
place yearly since 1817, and during the present year
there would be a reduction of £52,000 at least.—
The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) had taken his
stand, and drawn a comparison between the present
year and 1792. He was not surprised at this when
he considered the Report of the Committee of Finance
on that subject, but he must contend the Committee
had acted on erroneous principles, and, therefore,
their Report also was erroneous. The Hon. Gentle-
man then entered into a statement of the scale of
reduction in this department in different years after
the last four wars, and contended that the reduction
since the conclusion of the last war had been more
rapid than on any preceding occasion. The increase
of our colonies since 1792 was worthy of remark.
‘Ve had now 109 establishments, of these 56 were
new since the year 1792, which was more than one-
half of the whole number. This, of itself, rendered
it impossible to revert to the scale of the year 1792.
He also denied the assertion of the Honourable Mem-
ber, that money now went as far as in 1792, in the
purchase of necessaries. It might do so in cases
where large sunis were employed ; but it would not
do so in the cases of clerks receiving only 4.200 or
£3OO a-year. The Member for Aberdeen had stated,
that salaries had been increased enormously ; and he
instanced the Storekeeper at Dover, who had now
£500;- whereas, in 1792, he had only £120; but it
should be recollected that, in 1792, he had perqui-
sites which made his income more than £5OO • in-
deed, in many years, it would have produced £9OO.
So as to the Store-keeper at Chatham, his salary was
now fixed at £500; had he still enjoyed his perqui-
sites his place would have produced him £l,lOO or
£1,200. The Honourable Gentleman then entered
into a detail of the different appointments made in
the Ordnance, and contended that the Member for
Aberdeen had entirely failed in making out his as-
sertion that there was an extravagant waste of public
money in this department. He next entered into a
comparison of the expenditure of 1792 and of the
present year item by item, and throwing out the
Horse Artillery, and other establishments, which did'
not exist in 1792, and the establishments of 56 Colo•
nies, which did not exist in 1792, it would be found
that the Ordinaries and Contingencies of the present
year exceeded 1792 by the sum of I:59,000, and the
Extraordinaries by £B,lOO, whilst the unprovided of
1792 exceeded those of the present year by £2,000.
The whole excess was about £65,000, against which
was to be set old stores on hand—increased rent and
takes—the union of Ireland and England, t y which
a considerable additional expense was cast on Eng-
land—and lastly, the great improvements which had
taken place throughout the whole Department. He
was desirous it should be known to the Empire at
large, that the excess of 1821 over 1792, in chit
wasteful Department, was 4:65,000. The Honour-
able Member then proceeded to take a review of the
salaries of the clerks; he acknowledged that a trifling
addition had been made to the salaiies of some of the
individuals in the lower dep laments. Still they were
much worse paid than the clerks in any private count-
ing-house, and their salaries were lower than those of
any other of the Government Offices not e::cepting
even the Victualling Office. The Hon. Gentleman,
after some further observations, proposed a Resolu-
tion for a grant of 1:43,070, for paying the salaries
of the Master-General of tlic Ordnance, Clerks, &c.
Mr. P. MOORE said he had listened with as much
attention as possible to the long statement made by
the Honourable Member, at this late hour; and he
now felt it his duty to 'state, that in future, whilst
these Estimates were under consideration, he would,
out of regard to the health of the House, and to
others of his Majesty's subjects, move an adjourn-
ment every night at tWolve o'clock; he would com-
mence imunliately, by moving that the Chairman
do now report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
The Motion was immediately adopted, non. con.
The House resumed, and the other Orders were
disposed of.—Adjourned at Half-past One.

A FrIr7ING OCCURRINCR.—Yesterday, while Miss Slums(); of
Drury-Lime Theatre, was rehearsing the prt of Mary, in the Ina-
kviscr's Daughter, a letter was brought to her, on perusing of
which she sunk down on the stage in strong hysterics. Her bro-
ther was immediately sent for, who, after looking at the note,
placed his 1-...utis on his eyes, and remained for cone tittle in-
, sensible. The letter cantained a communication of the death of
their father. The afflicted relatives subsequently recover, and
left the Theatre. In consequence of the above occiarrei.ce, Miss
Kzet.v, last night, undertook the part which had been assigned
to Miss SMIT!IsON.
TIICATRICAL FRACAS.— Yesterday afternoon, a novel scene
took place in the neighbourhood of Drury-Lane Thestre, be-
tween Mr. 6cossor, jun. of the Royal Coburg, and Mr. Wisc...
SION, the acting Manager of the former Theatre. On Mr. %VW.
5r,”.4 leaving the Stage-door he was attack.d eons ecrcmonie by
Mr. GLossor, who proceeded to horsewhip the MAlLiter with
great Severity in the presence of a crowd of persons. The par-
ties then separated. Various reports are :n circidatiotarespect.
mg the cause of this affray.

I

- .

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

SATURDAY, MAY 12, 1821.
THE FUNDS.
MB= or STOCKS Tlll5 DAY AT 0111 O'CLOCK :

3 per Cent. Reduced 72% 7/3
3 per Cent. Cons. 73% 3/4 3/4-4 per Cent. 911/2 91
5 per Ct. Navy 1083/4 rs 3/4—LS. Anns. 18 9-16 3/4
India Bonds 435. pre.-Etch. Bills 2s. 3s. ls. 4s. pr.
Cons. for Acct. 733/4 3/4.

We have received the Paris Papers of Wednesday
last. The following are extracts:
PARIS, MAY s.
This day the Count de Pralorme presented to the
King at a private audience-Ist. Letter from the
King of Sardinia, Charles Felix, on his accession to
the Throne; 2d. Letters from that Sovereign accre-
diting Count Pralorme as Envoy Extraordinary and
Minister Plenipotentiary to the Court of France.