Star.
London, England, 1810-04-14 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. WOODFORD, from the Exchequer, presented an account
of the surplus of the Consolidated Fund.—Ordered to lie on the
Sable.
On the second reading of the Yarmouth Water-works Bill, Mr.
HARBORD moved as an Amendment, that it should be read a
second time on that day six months. 'l'he amendment was car-
ried without a division.
Sir S. R OMILLY gave notice, that on Monday he would move.
for the release of Mr. Gale Jones.
Lord COCHRANE gave notice, that on Monday he would
move that certain Papers relating to the Navy should be referred
to a Committee of the whole House.
The Report of the Highway Robbery Bill was brought up, and
odered to be taken into further consideration that day 3 weeks.
On the motion of Mr. ROSE, a copy of the observations of the
Surgeon-General on the sth Report of the Commissioners of Mi-
litary inquiry, and a letter to Francis Knight, Esq. were ordered
to be laid before the House.
IRISH CATHOLICS.

Mr. ORA TTAN gave notice of a motion for Monday the 16th
Instant, in favour of the Catholics of Ireland. I-lis arguments would
be grounded on two grand points, first on the justice of their
claims to those privileges enjoyed by their fellow subjects ; and
secondly, on the propriety of granting the King a vets to forbid
the inauguration of their Bishops by any lot (Agri power.
SOUTII LONDON WATER-WORKS.

Mr. H. SUMNER brought up the Report of the Committee on
the South London Water-works.
M. H. MARTIN opposed the Bill, on the grounds that it in-
fringed the rights of another Company established for a similar
purpose ; and against which no complaint had been made. He
thought the Bill called on the House to violate every principle of
good faith ; for if the Lambeth Cumpany,estab!ished in 1785, had
performed what they undertook to do, the House could not be
justified in depriving them of the advantages they at present en-
joyed. lie concluded, offering to move an amendment on the
objectionable clause.
On the suggestion of the SPEAKER, he deferred his motion till
the Bill had gained a more advanced stage, it being understood
that the Bill was introduced solely for the purpose of enacting the
clause in question. It was agreed that the debate should take
place on the further consideration of the Report.
Mr. MARTIN then moved, that the further consideration of
the Report should be postponed to that day six months.
Mr. H. SUMNER contended that the Company alluded to
had abused their power by keeping persors without water for
eight or nine years, because coming into houses which had been
inhabited by tenants not of a very honourable description, they
would not pay the arrears of the former inhaL•!ants.
Sir THOMAS TURTON opposed the taking of the Report
into consideration.
A division took place, when the numbers were—
For the Amendment o—Against it 22.
TLe Bill was of course thrown out.
SECURITIES FOR PLACES OF TRUST.

Mr. CALCRAF I', in consequence of the accusa-
tion made against him on Thursday, had given no-
tice that he would move for certain papers on the sub-
ject. He had looked over the instructions, but could
not rind any thing in them that seemed to apply to
himself; but as he might have overlooked them, he
should move for an extract of that part which was
considered as bearing on his case. He begged to ask
the Hon. Gentleman opposite, and the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, whether, on further inquiry, they had
found that Mr. Ridge did not give securities for the
oflicr he held under Lord Moira ? He would also
move for the dates of the securities which Mr. Ridge
had given at any time. Did he renew his securities
on a new Master of the Ordnance Board being ap-
pointed ? Those given under a former Master ceased
to be binding on Lord Chatham's being placed at the
head of the Board, it being the practice to renew
them under every new Master. He wished those
questions to he answered ; till they were, he would
trouble the House no farther. If, however, the re-
turns made were not satisfactory, he should feel it a
duty he owed to himself, and to the Gentlemen with
whom he had acted, two of whom he should state
were still of that Board, to take some further step on
the occasion. lie concluded by moving for such ex-
tracts floe) the instructions to the Board of Ordnance
as relate to the taking of securities for the office of
agent to the artillery.
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER stated, that although
there was no insertion in the instructions, still it was
the universal practice to demand securities from all
Agents, through whose hands the public money went.
Independent of all provision or enactment, the prin-
ciple was itself conclusive. In answer to the ques-
tions of the Henourable Gentleman, he had to state,
that the bond in the case of Mr. Ridge was made out,
hut was not executed by that Gentleman.
Mr. CALCRA FT asked across the table whether
it eras executed by his sureties ?
Mr. COOPER. Yes; it was executed by his sure-
ties.—(Lertd rt 7of Hear, hear.) —With r; .pest to
he must say, that he did not :lc-
otl;ct' qtr:tik :: 17
siiesce in the con:lusion, that securities were not re-
newed in cal/4e of a chai.ge in the department. The
secin-ity wac net to the person at the head of the
•
D:Lird, but to the King. There was one topic intro-
duced by the I Gentleman (Mr. Cidcraft) to
which he felt it incumbent to advert. Ile had been
charged with r-night:4 krwaid against that Gentle-
',e luau, an accoeizien for his conduct in the case of
Mr. R 44;e. lie had gene no slich thins, but when
his own character was implicated in censure on a&
count of Mr. Hunt's defalcation, surely it was natu-
, ral btr him to turn tilen his accuser and say, even in
yoor oen :eiiiiinistration, you yourself have been
gii:lty of the very omissien, tor which you now so
loudly proclaim that lam culpable. Of that omis.
seal ie admin;stration he would beg to recal :he
'a:ter:Von of the lon. GeNleman (Mr. Calcieft), to

the case of Mr. Hopkinson, whO also was an agent, SIR FRANCIS BURDETT.
I and by whom no security was given, though his ap- The SSPEAKERacquainted' the House that he
point ment took place during the administration of that ' had received a letter signed Francis Burdett, on which
Hon. Gentleman. he wished to know the pleasure of the House. On a
Mr. CALCRAFT.—" This is altogether a new cry of Read! Read!. he read as follows :
charge, but nave no doubt it stands upon equally g, To the Right Hon. CHARLES ABBOTT, Speaker of the
as strong grounds as that of Mr. Ridge, which the HORS! of Commons.
confession of the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. .. sot—you having on cr about the 9th day of April Instant'
Cooper) has confuted almost as quickly as he utter- . as Speaker of the House of Commons, forcibly broke and entered
ed it. Let those Gentlemen be brought to the bar. the dwelling-house of me, the undersigned Sir Francis Burdett;
Lit the House be put in possession of the fullest evi- situate in Piccadilly, in the parish of St. lames, Westesinster,
dence upon the subject, and I feel sincerely confident
that such accusations must recoil upon those who , in the county of Middlesex ; and having also, on the said lath day
.f April, caused me to be apprehended, and unlawfully corm-
have so indirectly advanced them. But allowing mined to a certain prison called Ills Majesty's Tower of London,
we were guilty, can there be an excuse for the o
fences of those who perpetuate the abuse until the . and to be there imprisoned, and as yet kept and detained in pri-
son there, without any reasonable or probable cause whatever.—
countrr is made to feel the actual loss and evil ?--- Ido therefore, according to the form of the Statute in such case
Will the country think it receives a just performance
made and provided, hereby give you notice, that, I shall, at or
of duty from those for whose services large salaries
soon after the expiration of one calendar month, from the time of
are paid to them, merely, because when charged with
your being served with this notice, cause a bill to be filed against
a dereliction of their trust, they think they have the
power or the opportunity to recriminate
s. Reerlmi- you in his Majesty's Court of King's Bench at Westminster, and
nation is no defence—(Hear, hear.) If teir charges a writ of summons to be thereupon sued out of his Majesty's said 1
Court of King's Bench at Westminster against you, at my suit, i
are well founded, let them bring them directly in a
for the said trespass and false imprisonment, and shall proceed
Parliamentary shape ; and if we are guilty, let us be
against you thereupon according to law. ...
subjected to that merited censure under which the ,_ ~ 1 arn, &c. " TRARCIS BURDETT.
present Board so very justly suffers. It is quite ridi- i
culous to make a parallel between the cases Of Mr. „Dated the 12th day of Aprl, 1810," and endorsed by
Jon x Elam, Gray's Inn-square. , 1
Ridge and Mr. Hunt, evea if the accusation against 1
me in respect to the . The SPEAKER said it was at the option of the former was true ; but as it is '
most unfounded, even by the admission of him, yvho House whether the letter should be' catered on the
has made it, I must say it is insulting the public, which
Journals.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
has been robbed to a large amount, to distract the !
course of public justice by the introduction of uncon- conceived nothing could be done with the paper in
netted subjects." i the present stage, but to enter it on the Journals of the
Mr. CHARLES LONG admitted that recrimina- House.
tion was not a good set off, and constituted a miser- ' Mr. PONSONBY thought that the letter ought to
able defence ; but when the Honourable Gentleman, lie upon the Journals.
in the pomp of official superiority, denounced his suc. I Mr. WHITBREAD was of the same opinion,
cessors, it was natural for them to retort and try him
,i The letter contained nothing that could make it unfit'
by his own acts. If omissions of a similar nature to be received ; and it might be the ground of great
could be laid to his charge, it was impossible iiithe questions hereafter to be tried.
overbearing triumph that he was inflicting, that flesh The letter was then ordered to be inserted on the
and blood (A laugh) could rest silent, and with the
Journals.
knowledge they had of some of his own omissions, I
BILL FOR REGULATING SECURITIES.
1
not illustrate them. I Mr. A. COOPER thought the House would have no objection '
Sir JOHN NEWPORT stated, as the characteris- 1
to the moticn he was about to make. He then moved for leave
to bring in a Bill for regulating the Securities given by persons
tic distinction of the present Ministers, particularly of ;holding Places of Trust, for the Performance of the Duties of
the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that for every grie- their Offices.
vance complained of—for every act of misgovern-
Mr. HORNER thought the Hon. Gentleman ought to have
stated the grounds on which he wished for leave to bring in the
mein and mistake—fur every measure of policy which Bill. If, whenever a new instance of delinquency were discover-
had bequeathed calamity and ruin to the country— ed, a Bill was to be brought in to prevent the like occurring
each the delinquent might constantly escape with impurity,
the only justification was the pother and capacity to again,
recriminate. What had the country to do with their prove Bill would nugatory as the last, and thus they might
go on ad infiniturer.
bickerings and recriminations ? If any charge or ac-
cusation could be brought against their opponents,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was of opinion,
that all errors would be corrected by this Bin, and that it was a
modesvo u ol
df proceeding.
a
better method to
why not bring them ? To insinuate them, and not most Wph
Au I
le:
No n; el,andl
operativeconceived
it
venture to arraign those whom the Ministers were
anxious to depreciate, was, in his opinion, instead of a address his Majesty for the removal of all Officer guilty of
default in their duty; this was not a nugatory, but the only real
defence for their own misdeeds, an aggravation of
method of preventing negliger.ce.
their offence, inasmuch as they kept such charges se- Sir 1. NEWPORT was of opinion, that the true way of pre-
creted, merely as an apology for their own derelictions.
..
venting future transgressions would be by punishing the past.—
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER i (Hear, le T !f—lf failure should take place in consequence of the
• want of a bond, they who did not exact that bond of course should
assured the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite, I stand in it, place ;it was rather a curious circumstance, he thought,
that nothing was more foreign from his intention, , that law makers should be the first law breakers.
than to build a character for his administration upon I Mr. WARD said, the only question was, tihetiter:itcturroittiil,. it.
Inot
proud the basis of their fame. He should feel not in have
te nta-glii•rcttisg tendency
to enforce the entering
into
grant of the office ?
the conviction that he stood high in the public esti- Nothing had been said against the efficacy of such a provision.
mation, merely because he stood a little higher than Mr. ALEXANDER BARING said a few words. •
them—(Hear, hear.) There could be nothing in the
Mr. WILBERFORCEcouId have no objection to
inthe bringin
instructions of Charles the Second which were given
in of the Bill. Some improvements might hr male
'
nuttec—a clause, for instance, making it inspereive to pi oduce
to the Clerk of the Ordnance relating to the case of the bond executed within a reasonable time at the I.•r..asury.
• agents, because no such office existed at the time such Leave was then given to bring in the Bill.
instructions were originally drawn out ; but he would 111P4I TITHES.
contend, that the subsequent practice was as conclu- Mr. PARNELL rose to submit a motion for a
sive as if it was ingrafted in them. With respect to Committee to inquire into the mode of collecting
recrimination, he had to observe, that in the present I tythes in Ireland, with a view to remedy the present
instance the only attempt of his Honourable Friend I inconvenience and oppression resulting from the sys-
was to reduce them from their vaunted elevation too tem. In bringing forward a motion, the object of
the mere level of fallible beings. There was no ac- ! which was to improve the state of Ireland, and to
cusation brought against them ; but surely when they ; conciliate the minds of the people, he thooeht he had
ventured to arraign others for misconduct, of which 1 a strong claim upon the attention of the House, and
they themselves were guilty, it was not too much i that claim must be considered as still so-onger, when
to refresh their recollection with the facts, and from , Gentlemen adverted to the disappointment under
their own sheaving to argue, that in the Iff months j which the minds of the people of Ireland laboured
that they were in office they did contrive to colleen- i from the new obstacle that arose to Cathol c emanci-
trate all the abuses of the '2O years preceding. j potion. Under these circumstances, he hoped the
Mr. PONSONBY.--“ The Right Honourable i House would see the propriety of acceding to this
Gentleman has assumed, that the merits of his Ad- measore, so well calculated to conciliate where con-
ministration are so transcendant as neither to require j ciliation was so necessary. That the commutation of
foil nor contrast. He has presumed that the results ; tythes would greatly ameliorate the condition of the
of his Government and the interests of the country ' people of Ireland, no one could doubt who was
every day give an additional value to his services and , thoroughly acquainted with the subject. He then
a splendour to his Ministry. That the higher he ; stated what had passed upon this subject before.—
lifts himself in office, the more dignified he becomes 1 The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) opposite
in reputation, and that the country accords with the ; had been sensible of the evil, and had endeavoured to
panegyric which lie has so modestly pronounced ' find out a remedy, but at length abandoned the mat-
himself. But it is not to his talents his praises are ter as impracticable. After this he had himself sub-
restricted. No ! his clisrity for the misdeeds of his ; mined a motion last Session, which, (he thought,
opponents—his compassion for their defects form no : might have been agreed to. It had been negatived.
inconsiderable share of his own eulogium. Forsooth, j however, on the ground that the House had out suf-
he said, he never built his reputation 'spoil any rccri- , ficient information on the subject. The object of the
mutating attack upon his political opponents. In- , motion he was now about to submit, was to procure
deed, one is at it loss which most to admire, the mu- : the necessary information. He did not agree with
dcsty with which he speaks of his own exploits, or the the Right Hon. Gentleman, teat there was no remedy
compassion Nrhich he kindly extends to cur demerits.
:, applicable to the case. But in any view inquiry was
Let him allow me to protest against his generous proper, as it would remove the doubt in one Way or
condescension. Let me hope to impress upon him . another. He would not enter at large into the toes-
that we seek no such responsibility far our public : lion of the effect of the tythe system, bat only men-
conduct. If we have acted impropeily—ifthe corn. • tion some circumstances which rendered its pressure
try has cutlet-tol in its interests by Our offences—if we peculiarly severe in Ireland.- The population of ire-
have afforded illustrations of dereliction of ditty aod ' land he took at five millions Of these four millions
breeches of trust, in Goo's name, let the Chancel:oe were Catholics—tlee half of the other million were
of the Excheqiier recollect t!:e paramount duty he protestants, dissenters, or quakers ; sj) tl t • -
to one J parts
owes the count: y, nod bring us to trial for oar mis- out of ten of the population had to pay tythes to
duds—(Hear, hear.) For such attacks we ate pr;•.. clergymen whom they did not attend for religions
pared ; unequivocally brought forward we mast be instruction, besides what they paid to their own
grateful. The acrimony, the violence, the political clergy. He did not mean to propose that Ireland ;
asperity of the Right Honourable Gentleman we are should be relieved from the tythe system ; all he
not inclined to fear, but Ido be,ss, leave to protest wished was, that the House should inqiiire whether
against and deprecate as the most disheartening of all it was possible to devise a plan by which they might
vis;tations—their commendation and compassion." be contributed in a more easy Manner. The meet-
Mr. CALC RAFT, in a most animated manner, ings for relief in this respect were not all composed
' retorted eroa die Chancellor of the Exchequer's af- ,of catholics. The protestants, and even the l • C ero
fected indulgence to grant the papers he sought.— - themselves, were friendly to some change. Another ' Really, one would have thought that he carried the peculiarity in Ireland was, that the poorest man was
House of Commons in his pocket. He would tell forced to be a landholder. The population was so
him that he sought them not as a matter of favour, large in proportion to the capital, that the labourer
but as a matter of zight. He had been accused, and could get no regular employment to enable him to •
as a Member of Parliament he insisted upon their live, as in this country, independent of holding land.
production. He had ho wish to be under a cloud, ,' The competition, for whatever labour the capital
or to he placed in the list of public delinquents. He I could maintain, was so great, that the wages were
might be refused by Ministerial Majorities, but lucki- ! too small to support a labourer and his family, The
1 y what pas.:ed within these walls still found their way consequence of their holding, land was, that the poor-
to the public—(Hear, Hear. ..---[The Papers werelest of the people were subject to tythes that t (
then moved for, and agreed, obe i rodticed.] clergy were supported by persons so poor, that in

this
country
therwoourbe
estittA
to
Parlhsiisisitythes.ei.e-lins-et
hUiundt7ththesehseimcseirclfu,msautdantestherehwe
aswaus
perpetual
ysuancdeeswerihipturnenudferpeedrsuitunsencuests,:erlyforser.uh:,
resistance
score of humanity.. The poor people
same remedy against oppression as in thh
• where it was customary to meet a spirit of '
by calling upon the clergyman to draw
But in Ireland, it' three, or some small number did
this, it was construed into a conspiracy, and come.
quently it was hardly ever diotlnaweteo.ultldhfehenoathsiunffigc
sthwouuelduutetriedsonine ththanis
rteowaesesti,mi laws of Lie
ground for this motion. To limit the tythes on
flax in Ireland to five shillings on the
acre, as
in this country, would he a great object.
need not enter into a detail of the hardships which
took place in consequence of the system of c:::...
letting tithes, as they were notorious.—The grna,
body of the clergy deserved praise rather a,n4
harm even
enbu t a tuhe
inHdioruidscua\voucildercgoynzusladuer
/
giurti,
how match
where those who paid tithes were so numerous and
i poor. This by the system was admitted to be a bad
I mode of
culture.
.uf
stiliTexwahtiistohncantruiant iti:d.yu,sh
when
xhtqeruenmotteehldey
injurioustheß al
tai
cu t
was
ta
us: authority of
land all intercourse with America prevented, depend-
ed' on • Ireland for a supply of grain ; from which
800,000 quarters had been imported. It. was exceed.
ingly impolitic, therefore, to check the agriculture
of Ireland. He had before stated, that he thought
:;.
wanted
best
vaetli eiddnnomot.attsonclped
inwlcipliere ydg,heitmhaself
tthteo any
himself
rteumae
idl
yy. particularftr vvdilleaptln.
evilalie
al,ietl
ewpnhdlotiircdrphenmnsseoeh.
tdo
remedy
cldetoldut
gpledge appear
ehbeeimofuosbluedelnfs
ndt
efctoarl
the c
giveu .
1 eilmnavtetiigui d.httht oeblua
otlonhcatutsherpillwiooeddpmnertligibiug:inhhtlivti
ttlimi:aindeningr
etcicoatnr
equivalent.ep, t haaytamt
the
eehu samei
Several
eof
rvbuej eirutaci
ltmt
the
attcnis.aittbah presenttnalulyde.
.u,ipilcalaessnrtg,touyyt
seislhtee
been proposed; one he believed by Mr. Pitt,for the sale
ksewnoaudlvdanntoatgeannswf etrh,eansppthoretuGnietnytlnfe-
m
t of e tythes. thadhes
purchasin.ngottThtehaiir quit rents. His wish was that the
iplan should be as simple as possible. The first step
ihe w(iuld recommend would be to ascertain the
value of the livings. This might easily be done,
as there were precedents to gnide them. As
to the amount paid for them at present, he had no
j data to go upon ; but he calculated the tythes paid
!at £.500,000, which would be the sum to be
.pro-
. %ruled in lieu of the tythes. To prevent the clergy.
‘ man from being a sufferer by the depreciation of mo-
ney, he proposed the average price of grain as the
standard of payment, which would carry the provi-
sion beyond the mark at present. The average, under
the present circumstances, would be tco much in fa-
vour of the Clergyman, as the high price of grain
was rot the natural price ; but one cawed by the de-
. preciation of the currency from 16 to 20 per cent. as
would appear from the Report of a Committee now
! sitting. The sum necessary to answer the purposes
of tythes, he proposed, should be collected a general
tax. The desired relief would thus be secured. He
concluded by adverting to the evils which kid arisen
from the oppression connected with the present sys-
tern of collecting tythes. It had been the parent of
insurrection. The White Boys, the United Irishmen,
and the Thrashers, had been raised or irritated by
this system. An evil which had been a chief cause
of insurrection for (it) years continuance, surely re-
quired a remedy. The people of Ireland had been
taught from a speech of Mr. Pitt, circulated in li e-
land with great ardour, to believe, that a change iu
the system of tythes would be one ofthe effects of tiro.
Ueion. It would be politic in the House to shew that
their expectations, in one respect, at least, were at last
to be answered. He plaeed in a strong light the min.
chievous consequences likely to result from irritating
the pt pulation of Ireland, by refusing an incpery into
one of their most serious grievances, at a time edienour
enterprising enemy would have such vest means of
taking advantage of our internal disunion, and of exe-
cuting his favourite pi-jeer of attacking the Empire
through Ireland—its weak part. He then moved for
a Committee for the purposes stated at the commence.
ment of his speech.
Mr. W. POLE said, no man was more desirous
than he was that something truly efficient should be
done in the case of the collection of tythes in Ireland.
He differed however entirely with the Hon. Gentle-
man as to the appointment of a Committee being a
measure calculated for that purpose. It would oniy
be raising hopes in the people, which from the House
not being able to see its way, would not be iii its
power to realize. If the Hon. Gentleman had come
forward with a specnic proposition, he would 11-n'e
directly met him c.n it ; but he conceived the state-
meats of the Hon. Gentleman were not correct. Ore.
fact was, that the mischief lay with the lawil,rds of
estates, farms, &c. who put them to cant, and dis-
posed of them for the most money that cooiLi be get
---a great deal more than they were worth, without
any mention of their being liable to the pi.ynii,rit el
tythes ; and when 0 tires came to be demanded, the le,
nants grumbled, and landlords encouraged them to
resist. This subject had been under the considera-
tion of Ministers for some time, and several bois had
been framed for the purpose, but it had been found
that none of them would answer the cud propose.!.—
He was going over to Ireland, would inquire most
1 minutely into every thin; relating to the subject, .niti
hoped he should be able next Ses,ion to bring 1,41-‘,-;!:1
a specific proposition on the subject. At pre, en: cle
first obstacle that struck him appeared to be insur-
mountable. The clergy now, Irian resistance and
oilier causes, did not receive above 1
-2Oth—in limey
instances not 1-30th ; how then was he to make ;la
arrangement to benefit the people, by making th,ea
pay I -I Oth ? Gentleman . ,
. This the Hon. G :ay :bey
should pay by a tax imposed for the purpthe ; but
not one-tenth of the tythes, but of the net produc.: ,t.
the benefice. This was an injustice he could nevelt-
consent to. If the Hon. Gentleman meant to abolish
tythes, let him say so ; but the means he would ad-
-1 vise in the present instance were impracticable. He
could not agree to go to a Committee without some
specific proposition being laid before the House, on
which it might form some judgment as to the n tone
of the measure intended, and therefore he nurt vstst
the motion. He concluded by saying, that the al:-
pointment of a Committee would produce a mflame

ilrer
ii— 11
to
eo eet
al spirit of
Inn to em.
ipulous on 1
iad not the 1
is country. i
1
harshness:

.
~...,„-..--voroWtnd, Which, perhaps, could peteat to arrange a ettltabU measure. Tythes were
0. eipettation
easilv be allayed. 1 unquestionablyan evil, and so was any species of tax,
g(ltSi-r JOHN NEWPORT said, that he must ever I which formed a substraction from the produce of the
geed the marked inattention of Ministers to every I poor, but yettheiniposition of thesethingswasindispen•
2
lication for the redress of the Irish people upon sible. Certainly,no hope of removing any such impost.
k; iPs a gross breach of those pledges by !Om should beheld out to the people until thereappear-
Les ei„,et-. • _
e Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had contrived to . edsome reason to calculate upon the means of realizing
vhizli the
Union.. But this pledge V% as not made : that hope. At. present, no practicable remedy was
accomplish the
Tbl_ _ . 'it.
Hon. ;supported upon the subject' of tythes, and therefore
merely by the I" e. e Lord, but by.the iglir
Redman (Mr. Pitt) whose. saccesier the lament . he should oppose the motion for going 'into a Corn-
*lCi
•, •
boasted of. being, aid iii, the Right Hon. , muttee. But, in fact, the case of tythes in Ireland
Gen
. perceiral).whoiiinmediatelYs! wetted to be much misunderstood in this country. The
kterm• a himself (*
upon his succession tbo
.fflce, promised to take up the : ttthes iii Ireland were by no means so considerable in
•nless That Right onourable Gentleman, how- 1 their nature and amount as they were in this country.
s.
erg, v-
as contested to premise, arid from Session tot This, he thought it iecessary to state, in order to cor-
Session to renew that promise, without any apparent rest the impression which the exaggerated reports of
mention to fulfil it. The lastiSpeakee now succeed- ! some Gentlemen Were calculated to produie, although
ea to the Same system of prOtti.se,,and he very much i he felt as much ati any man for the oppressions of the
feared he would succeed to the same system of per- ! Irish people, and was as anxious as any man to re-
ennance also. The Right Honourable Gentleman 'I move every ground of their complaint.
coed upon the House to wait until next Sessioh, and Mr. HERBEkT (of Kerry) conceived that the
that then be might do something. But was it fair modes that the tythes was levied in Ireland was a pre-
thos to deal with the. people of Ireland ? and if they i miunito idleness, and a tax upon industry. He thought
would the enemy wait also ? Would that ; the idea of the Right Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. W. Pole),
stet wait,
terry, who was ever active in his hostility to the Bri- 1 about the principle of commutation, was unjust in the
tub Empire, decline to avail himself of the neglect of extreme. .To say that an actual tenth of the produce,
the English Governtnent to perform its engagements er one-fifth of the value of all the lands should be se- ,
to the Irish people ? Would he overlook the discontent tured to about 1500 persons, for discharging duties
Rip which the severe oppression of the Tythe Sys- that were not very burdensome, was a principle which
tent els perpetually corroding the mind of the Irish? could nelthei; in justice or in reason be maintained.
This was a consideration to which that House ought
They should take i Mr.MAURICE tITZGERALD argued at length
to attend, ere it was yet too late. against the pie:sent mode of collecting Tythe.s in Ire-
care to strengthen Ireland, as Ireland was the vulie. i land. He stated fit a comparative illustration of the
oje point, and that strength was best to * Pro- I grievous exaction in Irel.ind,that in a county of such
dc,eal by removing the discontents of.its unfortunate I agricultural adviintages as Norfolk, the Tythes did
rsn'zion. The people of that country had really I not exceed the rate
of ss. an acre, whereas in Ireland
t."'
ten so very ill treated , upon the subject of the motion, I the Wheat Tythe anlounted in many parts to two
Cat it could not be too emphatically urged upon
the the 1 guineas an acre, and Sei: an acre on potatoes. The
cnsideration of the House. At the period of pay of the established clergy was in many cases much
r;,;(n, an act for abolishing the tythes of agistment 1 beyond that proportion of their labour. There were
kras CA: ried,
beainse, accoitlinig to the distinct decla- I districts of considerable extent where there were nei-
ittilii of a Learned Prelate. M the Irish House of ; ther churches nor resident clergy. He thought this
lards, that measure must be. . carried as one of the lin itself a ground of inquiry. He quoted a passage i
I h
conditions of an acquiescenice. in the. Union. But the from a pamphlet attributed to Di. Duigenan, u -
I fished in 1787, of the danger of any portion ofp the
complete comnoutationof tytitestvaitalso promised ; the
latter, hUisever, not having been granted, the effect of laity from the want of Protestant pastors becoming
the former was wholly to transfer the buithen of tythes ! the prey of rambling Popish friars. The Right Ho-
from the rich landed proprietcrs to the poor. It tnight i nouroble Gentleman then proceeded to argue from
be pretended that there was no distinct pledge at the the nature of the original institution of Tythes, that
time of the Union to accede to a commutation of they were intended for various other purposes besides
tythes. There Might have been no written bond ; ' that of the maintenance of the clergy. It appeared
but there was that Whit!' was equivalent to a bond in that in the times of Richard the Second, Henry the
the mind of men of honour. There were prospects Fourth, Henry the Sixth, down to Edwiad IV. that
held out in various directions, and promises made by 1 but a fourth part of the Tythes then collected was
the highest authoiity, that a commutation of tythes ; appropriated to the clergy merely. He did not want
slr uld be one of the first conieguences of the Union ; i to deduct from the property of the Church of Ireland,
and these promises lie could assert served to reconcile 1 but he was anxious for the sake of the country that
may to the adoption of that measure. Still it was ( they should derive that property from some other
possible that the same miserable et cent might be I source than that of the miseries of the people.
tempted with regard to these premises which had I me Fl ItrIERALD (of Emits) had no objection to go intr.
i thetetatitzittieec though not on the grounds. stated by his Right
peen tied to upon the subject of the Catholics.--•
Hew the pledges to the Catholics had been evaded " d. lie was determined tarestat every attempt
upon the property of the Church of Ireland.
could never escape the recollection of that House or Mr. GRA'I' FAN said, that he had fur a considerable time en-
the Irish nation. But the evasion was glarinx; lie tertained the same opn upon the oppressive nature of levy-
r,:ll.l prove at the Bar, as he bad before offered, that li
t'sse pledges had been actually made. He could !In. e'rld one ao
guv
lies in Irelandt,
thatand thaltdher had
ont ,
himn all o tahlattertitTaet,
r opinion. Has more and more convinced of the propriety
i:'.:A she v, by irrefragable testimony, how the :assn
of the neces.ity, and of the practicability of a tunintuta-
N.:,:!e Lord (Castlereagh) had managed the business I tioa ; it was not the conmoration that was impracticable, but
-by: the Catholics had received a solemn promise. it was the strict levy of the
toTytvhe tahat
t vithi"ofsTrish.l. no:lir:he
becauseL ought
t measure not t o
itself attempt
%,. 1
i:1.,. rum% while a different promise was made to
as an ininossilniility ; they couldP
not
the Pmastants in anather-.Land how the promises to , ~,, it; and what I was more, they would destroy themselves by
!AA had been grossly violated--holy the Noble Lord attempting to do it, the attempt would involve their destruction
"Kt it the word of promise to the car, as a enrporation. But were it practicable—would it be tape-
" and broke it to the seine." j diem? Let the church take the tenth of the national WWII h,
j and what do either the country or the corporation gain ? 'I
he
17).:t .Eica*,;ll :ill the promises to the people had been
; church may become sob rich fur drvotion, and then a conipa-
cnzirded, promises to individuals were rigidly 11117 iparisou will raturaity grow out of the wealth of the established
lloi, 2:(1 Ireland had in consequence to deph.re, clergy, and the poah•erty of the tolerated, theraise, t one whe o in have haravde
tihtes
..17.0:"; other evils, an absolute degradation of the Jo- i
pod_lLienfsbtal.iillif tbut•hotr: wilt
mayveheits
si:ual excessive, but not on
iota: finction. After expatiating forth:: upon the '
I that account the less mischievous. He did not wish to touch the
f;t.t;rant delusion and imposition practised upon the i present income of the church. He would make it the basis of any
fu,h, and repelling the imputation of the Right Ho.
is armpgeinthitatabat was to be prodr.sed. i
ved f'ytntesa, tdhiojgrtinatbsoolitsirhce,d. ~
; %tett:ol(lomin*
totry •
seas able
at
r..anible Gentleman upon the character of the Irish
;entry, asserting that he had liiniself never let his I
unless
Gelithnum
woutlntdtcioslapilyreo%l
191alti C
itfot‘r.atslriott...asi r
rosy to
Clergy,
to provide for the
iglu by cam., or turned out an old tenant ; the Right . moderation of the Catholic Clergymen, but impossible to provide
Hon. llarimet proceeded to animadvert upon the ex- 1 tor the hungry ambition of the Protestant—what t wnotittild IBisttlettti htaot
actin,: and oppression ro which the Irish poor were 1 zuoitabernmcitourni
be ut
said—lie tifithmwt doulitaohf t say an
tenth fur a
it—for lie could speak
abject, in consequence of the Tythes, and particti-
from knowledge in tessiumoy.of the moderation of the majority
lady the mode of their collection. The Clergy of the of the Irish Protestant Clerey. There were a few whom he found
rttblisheti Church were themselves so sensible of the to be sufficiently acute, turnished with a quick scent to to thei
few—the
:
Nature of this grievance, that he knew them to be in suit
oail clerical
vr rPtil:96a ttiiifferleiiireyorwderere, Bt'ut;ftthleer+;tvhier;rvocto.rt was
•
general anxious for the establishment of a commuta-
of another species and another stamp—a pubik factor of public
f!'r. So much, in fact, did they feel Nam die subject,
, rapine—he emended beyond himself the intamy of his galling and
°ea; il they were not restrained by •an apprehension of griping character. • The Church suffered from the officious iniiii-
;;:vn offence to their superiors in authority, many of stry of those sordid harpies. 'I he '1 )the Proctor cannot help being
1 Tythe Proctor. He only follows his nat Lira when lie grinds.—
tam with whom lie was acquainted, would have•
But the Clergy should be removed to &jealous distance from the
been among the first to petition that House for a
contagion of such a connexion. He was for going into the Coin- '
cqiimutation. Tythes were notorioesly the peree- mince, if it were only to spew the Irish public that their iottrests
iitai cause of discontents in Ireland. It was in evi- were not wholly indifferent to that House.
denied that he was the author of the Pam-
deuce before the Irish Government that the insurrec-
elite)tr.aporitibiGuiEeartAoNbimden is and said that the tirade of reprobation •
non which took place in the county of Sligo in the
it
isi owoont agalnsttbetytha proctor was not deserved.lt was equaity
year ISO 6, was actually trecasioned by the conduct i wrong to call the Tythes a tax. It was no such thing. And as j
"f Tythe Proctors. According to that evidence, the Ito their being a severe and partial exactionl upon
the
'Roman Cat
syktem of these harpies was to collect the parishioners holics—He contended
laudedt at that
of
_te..ll.
otiuteldpirZeirit7tlaauf i
Mk 49 parts out of SO of the property 1 1.. d
at 1 public house, and after they bonne intoxicated I
Livis'lu the hands of Protestants.
at their own expence, to get their signatnrim to agree- l General MATTHEW could pay tattle attention to the obser-
meats, of which the poor ignorant people were insen-11 vations of the last speakte, having understood from a Noble Lord 1
s.ilie of the meaning. Yet such agreements were not now in this House (Lord Wellington) when
.he was made A 1
• Measber of the Privy Council in Ireland) so little conLitler.e: i
rilfotced through the agency of sonic pettvfogging
was he thmaht entitled to, that he Wl4 to tse the nruz.:::kd Ledor. 1
'lttomey, who, of course, shared in the 'Proctor's He (he General) had a prtiiivii on she subject of l'ittes during I
'Pa The Right Honourable Baronet concluded the has: y.at from his county (Tipperary) which, trusting to the i
»•ith an animated exhortation to the House to take assurances of the Chancellorof the Exchequer, he had not brought i
i.: •
'•'.F glaevons case into their delibetate consideration, ! forward; but be now found him to be a slippery person. tie
was, therefore, in favour of the motion.
'.'d to enter into the inquiry proposed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER challenged Gen-
Mr. WELLESLEY POLE, in explanation, stated 1 denten who supported this motion, instead of voting for a Cum-
-I:;'.t he did not mean to cast any reflection upon the I mince, to bring tonsord any proposition on the subject which
awaken t
could be canvassed in that House Nothing, he conceives, was
rill Gentry, bat upon the middle men, to whose con.-i
'fact, lie fully IselieVed, was attributable the greater 1 mere dangerous than to he expectations of the people
! where they 'Were to receive nothing.
;tart of the oppressions of the poor. Indeed, he was i Mr. WILBERFORCE argued that trperience had shewr, that
'var.-anted in this belief from a fact which had lately i nothing could operate 'more Wrongly on the feelings of the pto- 1
'eine to his knowledge. In comequence of some re- : vole ter theect a.tdopfttionom tohfeatlitniiteasued irenflikestthiote
tprofeseatitconMintlichttet. seasof
tot disturbances in a particular part i 4. Ireland,which : tittat Ouse, 1
whose wish, he was satisfied, it would be, to ante-
hehad yesterday mentioned to the Right Hon. Baronet, borate the conditiottof the Irish Nation. The hare act or reioiv
Government thought it its duty to send down a person lug into such a Committee was calculated, so time, as was alledg. d,
lia'ciany to inquire into the cause, and the result of from .producirg discoutent, to engender hope and all its concuini-
it messing..
his inquiry was, that the disturbances Were owing en-
iwsir G. HILL thought, that to go into a Committee without
tirely to the manner in which a man, who had just Ott- having a specific course mat kea out as applicable to both pars of
dined a lease of a large estate, had let out the ground the kingdom, would be to hold out a false hope to the people.
at a rack rent to the people. Such was the commu- I The Iftiuse then divided—For the motion 4S—Agaiiist it Go
11 ration officially made to the Irish Government, and Majority'against the motion 2t.
S.t..it was the nature of the case in 'his mind, when be i SUPPLY.
ascribed sr) much twit to the misconduct of landlords. Mr, CURWEN moved that the House should resolve into a
Mr. LESLIE POSTER thought it inadvisable Committee of Supply.
to enter into an.y for • I Parliamentary investigation Mr. l'weateenele moved that the House do adlourn.
• pit an understanding, nowevar, that nothing of a public natore
of this subject 'until some digested plan should be dews to be voted, the House wear into the Committee, as hen, us'
'Wised 'by those who had the best opportunity of yolks: the motion of Mr. Curwen,
'';. 7, ii rotation, and who were, of coupe, most corn. voted to Captain Manoy, ft

to the 1

bulb se

—ye, by whisk a number of ht.
lately ea.,
The Report was ordered to be received, and the Committee to
nit again on Monday.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

SATIIIMAY, APRIL 14.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONIt O'CLOCK.
3 per C. Cons tnoney, T9l.
Reduced 633--4 per Cent. 83ii-5 per Cent. Navy 90,-t.
Exchequer Bills, 10*. 18s, preen.--Bonds ss. i6s. pro.n.
PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY.
Bank Stock 269 Mt 269 Long Annuities 181 5-18
3 per Cent. Red. Ann. 68.31 i India Bonds, 19s pre.
3 per Cent. Cons. 6911 Exch. Bills, 13, 15s. pre.
4 per Cent. 84 831 Lottery Tickets £i4 As.
S per Cont. Navy 99143 Cons. for Acc. 70 69j

Sir FRANCIS ihiRDETT has served the SPEAKER of
the House of Commons and the Serjcant at Arms
with Notices of Trial for Trespass and False Impri-
sonment. The Notice to the SPEAKER was last night
read in the House, and entered on the Journals.

Letters from Heligoland to the date of Wednesday
last, contala information respecting commerce which
deserves kb be known. Trade has in some small de-
gree revived, but the subjoined letter from the Elbe
shews with what personal danger its prosecut?on is
connected :

4, BANKS OF THE ELBE, MARCH CS.

FoUrtten more American ships, with colonial pro-
duce, arc lately arrived at Tonningen, but they have
not yet obtained permission from Copenhagen to un-
load. At the urgent request of the French Director
General of Customs, at Hamburgh, the Danish Ca.
binet has forbiddy.n, by still severer laws, the expor-
tation of sugar, coffee, and other colonial products,
from Holstein. The Hamburgh prisons are full of
victims, who attempted to carry in small quantities of
sugar and coffee. The French insist on the Senate's
punishing them with imprisonment and bodily chas-
tisement in the House of Correction.

The Hamburgh merchants are now quite without
trade ; and every other port of the Continent, from
the shores of the Baltic to Holland, exhibits, in the
strongest manner; frightful picture of French des-
potism and tyrannical oppression. Ready.money be-
comes more r.n..4 more scarce every day : the great want
of employment among the lower and middling classes
of society produces the most abject poverty, and even
crimes—these arc fruits of what Bonaparte calls the
Continental Systan, which is nothing but a system of
tyranny, starvaticn, and poverty."

THE ARMY.
Circular Letters have hen issue,.' to the members
of the different Volunteer Corps, in and about London,
requiring their attendance under arms, at their differ-
ent station% on Tuesday next) the day of the West-
minster meeting.

The Cambridgeshire Militia have removed from
Chelmsford, and a►e now quartered at Hampstead.—
The situation of the s'2d Regiment of Foot is not
quite so airy : upwards of 500 of this fine corps are
at present cooped up in Mr. TROTTER'S Army Cloa-
thing Warehouse, nem the top of Dean-street, Soho.
The East Essex Militia have received their route
to march from Brixham to the Kent District.

- ---
Tile 3d Regiment, or Buffs, still remain in Brix-
ham Barracks.
The 2d battalion of the 18th, or Royal Irish Re-
giment of Foot, have mai died from Gloucester, where
they have been quartered nearly three years, on their
route for Honiton, Devon.

----- -
General Hourros has left Brighton to take a corn
mand at Tunbridge Wells. He is succeeded by Ge-
neral Sir WILLIAM ERSKINE.
The Horse and Toot collected hi and round the
Metropolis in consequence of the late disturbance,
independently of the Volunteers, amounted to up-
wards of nineteen thousand men. About fifteen thou-
sand from different parts of the country halted within
a day march of the Capital.
The 31 st, or Cornwall, a very fine and well-cloathed
body of soldiers, are quartered at Somer's Town, the
vicinity of which swarms with men, whose fine ap-
pearance does honour to their respective Counties.
• uCIIELMSFckp, APRIL 12.
." In consequence of the distlabances in the metro.
polis, late OR S..curday night an express arrived here
to the lion. General Lt:Nt LEV, directing him to march
die whole of the effective force the garrinoa,
and canton them in the vicinity of London, to ;)e
ready to act on any emergency. Such was the alatvity
displayA on this occasion, that all the r-egiments moved
from their respective barracks belbre one o'clock next
morning. Orders had been previously dispatched to the
Commanding Officers of the troops at Colchester, Ips-
wich, ite, .requiring them to hold the regiments under
their direction in readinesi to march on the shortest no.
tice. In consequence of further orders, two troops of the
.sth Dragoon guards arrived livie on Sunday even-
ing from Mahlon, a! immediately proceeded to-
wards Romford, there to hold themselves in readiness
to move onward, at a moment's notice, in the event
of an advance to the capital becoming requisite.—
Four troops of the same regiment also arrived from
Weeley, between nine and ten at night, and alter con-
tinuing a few hours for the refreshment of themselves
nod horses, advanced to join those who had prece.led
them, at Romford. The Derby and Hertfordshire
regiments of militia marched into the barracks cf this
town on Monday, having proceeded by forced marches
from Ipswich ; the former having been conveyed in
waggons the whole of the way, and the latter as far
Braintree. They are to remain here, under the com-
mand of Brigadier-General AUCKLAND, till 01d:TS are
received for. their future disposition. The \Vest-York
and Bet wick regiments a:lived the same night, the
former from -Harwich, and the latter from Wood-
bridge ; both of which at under siniil ,r orders with
bef :lotted."