Star.
London, England, 1827-06-19 00:00:00

TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 19, 1827,

that country, the people of Ireland would receive the
benefit for which they looked up to him .from his
great talents.
The Petition having been read, on the motion of the Earl of
Kimonos
11 The Earl of LIMERICK expressed his opinion that
the introduction of Poor Lawsinto Ireland, where in the
course of 140 years land had been confiscated five and
six times over, would act like a still worse system of
confiscation, and would create one aggravated scene of
misery, pauperism, and beggary. With potatoes and
Poor Laws, Ireland would, in a short time, have seveti•
teen instead of seven millions of inhabitants, and'where
should food and employment be found for them ? He
understood that his Friend's object was to move for a
Committee of inquiry ; but was it on the 18th of June
that such a motion should be made with a view to utility?
Lord FARNHAM supported the general principle Of
pomeprovisiouyeinz made for the aged and infirm in
Ireland; &inked whether the good pioduced by
e 'Union had countfrbalanced the evil ereated.by call-
ing away ilroost all its great proprietors to thifeoditry.
Their sins were educated here ;they formed their early
habits and associations in England, and could not bear
to live in their own country. Was it astonishing, then,
that a people who knew their landlords only by the
tact of paying them their rent, should be in a state of
dissatisfaction?

The Earl of DUZZICZ explalnei.
Earl DARNLEY should not advocate the introduc-
tion of the present English Poor Laws into Ireland, but
as established under Queen Elizabeth they were widely
different. And even with all their abuses England bad
become the moet flourishing country upon earth, whilst
Ireland, without them, had been a sink of misery and
pauperism. He hoped his Noble friend would bring
forward the question early next Session; and pledged
himself to do so, if his Noble Friend, or a more expe-
rienced Pe.-r, did not take the subject into their own hands.
Viscount GODERICH was at once sensible of the
importance and difficulties of the subject. He doubted
how far their Lordships would draw an inference in
favour of introducing Poor Laws into Ireland, from
the manner in which they had worked here. Their
original intention was certainly good, but this country
had suffered much from the mode in which they had
beet carried into execution. If they were adopted in
Ireland, they must be much altered, and more limited.
It would be a great misfortune if the peasantry of Ire-
land were deluded into a belief that the remedy afforded
by so limited a measure as it ought to be, would dimi-
nish that pressure a hich they generally felt. Their gre .1
di.tress arose from want of employment, and the relief
would be confined to the aged and infirm. One of the
remarkable traits of the Irish, was the attencirn and
kindness which they chewed to their fellow poor. It
would be to be apprehended, that Poor Laws would
harden their hearts and alter their character for charity,
as they had done amongst rho people in this country.
The Marquis of SALISBURY also wished that their
Lordships would seriously consider the cruelty and op-
pression occasioned by the Poor Laws before they ven-
tured to extend them to Ireland.

Lord REDESDALE was understood to say, that .
hied at all, it ought to be in the large towns, for which
Acts of Parliament applicable to the circumstances of
the place might be enacted.
The Earl of BELMORE said, that the tax on land'
in Ireland had already amounted at from three to seven
shillings an acre. How could charges like those in-
flicted by the English Poor Laws, be borne in addition
to such a tax?
The Marquis of LANSDOWN observed thlt the
English Poor Laws had two objects: one to provide for
the infirm and aged, and the other, to procure employ-
ment for those who wanted it. The first object was
more limited than the second, and deserved the serious
attention of those who wished well to Ireland. But as
to procuring employment in the present state of the
Irish population, the attempt would only lead to taking,
it from those who had it, to give it to those who had it
not. Were houses of industry, which might produce
much advantage in some districts, to be extended all
over the country, a new supply would be thrown into
the market, which would drive the independent lea
bowers produce out of it. The same risk did not at-
tend the establishment of Dispensaries, which indeed
had for some years considerably increased. It was the
duty of Parliament to give due consideration to every
plan, but it was desirable that no expectation should
be held out to the people of Ireland which could not be
real zed.— After a few words from Viscount CLIFDRII,
Earl CARBERRY said, that it had been his inten-
tion to move, but I.e should not now do it till next Ses-
sion, an humble Address to his Majesty, praying that
he would be graciously pleased to direct an inquiry to
be made by the persons entrusted with the Government
of Ireland as to the practicability of establishing a sys-
tem of relief for the aged and infirm poor in Ireland,
either by parochial assessment, or other means better
suited to the situation. of that part of the United King-
dom, and to direct the information to be laid before the
House at the next Session of Parliament.
The None Simi then presented Petitions from the Parishes of
Mary's and Sc. Paul's, in the City of Cork, against the intro-
' &aim of Poor Laws into Ireland.—Laid on the table.
LORD HIGH ADMIRAL.
The House having gone into a Committee so the Admiralty Bill,
I Lord ELLENBOROUGH relinquished the idea of
moving the clause of which he had given notice, in
consequence of Snding that every warrant of appoint-
-1 silent issued by the Lord High Admiral was to be
countersigned by the Secretary of tie Admiralty, thus
giving the country the security of a responsible pet-
sun. His Lordship then said, that he understood that
serious doubts were entertained, whether it oils in the
power of the Crown to sever the Droits of the Admi-
ralty from the office of Lord High Admiral merely by
a Patent.

- - -----
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the Law
Officers of the Crown entertained no doubt on the sub-
ject, and the Patent was drawn as on firmer occa-
sions. As it was one of great importance, however, he
should direct his att,mtinn to it again, and should also
call that of the Law Officers of the'Crown to it.
The Biil went through the Committee, was reported, and or-
dered to be e. grossed.
♦DItINISTRATION or Ames.
The several Bills to improve the Administration of Criminal
Justice, wcrerespectively read a third time and passed.—Adj.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

a t 4
Sir A. tHICHOTER presented a Petition from Belfast against
the Duty on Coals.
On the trieMon of Mr. ESTCOURT, the further consideration
of the Report of the Committee on' Alehouse Licenses was post.
pored to this day month.
Mr. KENNEDY presented a Petition from certain individuals
connected with the trade of the River Dee, in favour of the Salmon
Fishery Bill.—Oftlered to lie on the table.
TUT set.
Petitions against the Test and Corporation Acts, were presented
from the tonsuring places--
By Mr. BIRCH, from Kingswortb, and six other places lit Not-
tinghamshire; by Mr. WEITZRN, from Chelmsford, Stratford,
and other parts of Essex; by Mr. WarTNOll, from • Oswestry,
Bridgenorth, Newport, Whi;chorch, and other places in the
County of.Salop ; by .Alr. DUNCWItiIe, from three places in Hert-
fordshire; by Sir R. Wicsom, from certain Dissenters of the
Borough of Southwark, and by Mr. C. C from Bermood-
my, Wandsworth, and certain Dissenters of the Borough of South-
warita--Oidered.to be printed.
Admiesi SO.TH#4l4ol:presepted a Petition from Paw Baked,
!nylon -that the Borough might not be disfrandtbed.--Orditred to

12CICATION.
Mr. PER CENTAL presented the Report of the Commission ap-
pointed to inquire into the state of Education in Ireland.
Mr. S. RICE said, the various Commissioners appointed to In.
quire into the state of Ireland had, within a few years, cost upwards
of 900,0001. He disapproved of the practice of Commindoners,
who differed from the majority, printing their opinions in a separate
form. _ _

Mr. F. LEWIS said, the good produced by one single Commis-
sion, that appointed to inquire into the revenue, more than counter-
balanced the expense of all the Commissions. When first they
entered upon their labours no more than 3,000,000 gallons of spirits
paid duty. At present the quantity was 14,000,000 galloon
The Report, after a few word, from Sir Jona Newrort and Mr.
Gaarrax, was ordered to be be printed.
Lord A LTHORP presented a Petition from Chichester In fa-
vour of the Bribery at Elections Bill. The Petitioners, however,
were of opinion that nothing but Election by Ballot could mat an
effectual stop to bribery.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. FLEMING presented a• Petition from Brompton, in Kent,
against any alteration in the present Corn Bill.—Ordered to be

printed. .
On the motion of Mr. Joint WOOO, the Preston Election Bill

--- --- •
Cal read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time to.

morrow.
Sir S. LU hi LSI' presented a Petition from Sutton, praying that
steps might be taken to put an end to the practice of burning of
widows in India.—Ordered to be printed.

PAUPERS.
On the motion of Mr. Scausr, the Able-bodied Pauper Bill was
read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time neat Friday.
Mr. SLANEY moved for a Return of the number of Paupers
suppotted by the Poor 's Rates, in the different Parishes of England,
during the years 1625, ISMS, and lerf, distinguishing such Paupers

as were able to work.
- I
On the suggestion of Mr. Secretary Bollix; the Hon. Member
withdrew the motion.
Mr. Alderman WA ITH MA N presented a Petition from Cam-
berwell against the Test and Corporation Acts.
Mr. F. WILSON presented a Petition from a Lady possessing
property in the bleed of St. Vincent's, praying that the House
would take into consideration the Acts relating to Slaves in the
West Indlet.—Ordered to lie on the table.

CO s•
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said, be bald in his band a Peti-
tion, signed by a numbers( bigbly respectable individuals, Ship.'
owners of the City of Looden; against a dense in the Customs Hill,
which went to preclude the importation of thirteen articles in fo-
reign ships. The Petitioners apprehended that if such a system of
legislation- u this contlnu‘d to be acted upon, the same confusion
would arise in the Statute Book as before existed. This regulation
would greatly enhance t►e 'awn, of bringing these thirteen stri-
des to this country. It was at •ariance with the Report of she
Committee on which the Bill was founded.

Mr. HUSK ISSON said, the subject bad been discussed at some
length on Friday night. At present be should not detain the
House, but postpone any remarks he had to make until the report
was brought up.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said the reasons as-
signed by the Right Hon. Gentleman on Friday night
for this alteration, appeared to him quite satisfactory.
He felt confidence in the measures of the Right Hon.
Gentleman, because he appeared to act upon clear and
just principles. The Petitionwa, ordered to be printed.'
On the motion of Mr. Alderman TIMIIIIPSON, a return of the
quantity of the thirteen articles specified in the Bill, imported in
each year, from 1820 to MS, inclusive, was ordered to be laid
upon the table.
Mr. Gaosvessou presented a Petition from Chester, against the
practice of burning Widows in lodic.—Ordered to be printed.
PETITION PROW GLOUCESTER.

Lord MILTON said, he held in his hand a Petition

upon a most important subject. Within the last few days
events had occurred in another place which were most
unfortunate for the country. He would not go so fir
as to say that they were discreditable to any body of men,
but they certainly would lead one to suspect that the
body of men to which he alluded, were not endued with
a very sound practical knowledge of commercial
principles—(Hear)—and might, perhaps, lead some
to infer, that they were, nut only not endued with sound commercial
principle!, but that they did not possess that feeling for the interest
of the public which became the Aristocracy of a great Empire
like this—(Hear, hear). The Petition did not come from those
who might be supposed materially to select him for presenting
it iodic House. It came from a body of manufacturers of the
county of Gloucester, who could have no other knowledge of him
' except that of his opinions on this subject being similar to their
own. The argumentation in the Petition was most sound. The
Petitioners stated, that unless some means were devised to lower
tit price of Porn in this country, or bring it to a somewhat similar
price in other countries, the export trade of England must gra-
dually decay. They asked not fur low prices of corn. All they
desired was, that the prises might approximate to those of other
countries. The way in which they conceived this might be effected
was by admitting the surplus produce of foreign cisuntrll.l, which
I would take manufactures in return. He trusted some means
might yet be devised for getting rid of the difficulty, and that
the country would not be left for another year under the present
Corn Law.—Ordered to be printed.
CORN LAWS.

Mr. CANNING rose for the purpose of giving notice
for to-morrow of a motion on .the subject of the Corn
Laws— (Loud cries of Hear, hear, from all puts of the
House).—He said that he was prepared on the part of
his Majesty's G ,vernment to submit to a Committee of
the whole House certain Resolutions relative to the
Corn Laws; but the course he should pursue must in a
great degree depend upon the course which the Hon.
Member (Mr. Western) meant to pursue with respect
to his motion. If the Hon. Member meant to persevere
in his motion to-night, and if the H use should consent
to give precedence to that motion, then it was probable
that he (Mr. Canning) would hare an opportunity of
proposing his Resolutions by waf of amendment to the
Hon. Memb. A Motion ; but this must entirely depend
upon the tnrii which the di cussion should take.
Mr. F. LEWIS implored the House not to lose a
moment in considering this great question He knew well
that the 0. der: tit the Day which stood I efore the Hon.
Member's (Mr. W ite!rn's) nrition were important, but
t was not tight thin tl.e f should fur a moment delay