Star.
London, England, 1804-07-12 00:00:00

STAMP DIM'S.

The Order of the Day being tead for the Houfe
going into a Committee on the Additional Stamp
Flume, on the Motiun that the Speaker do leave the

Chair, •
Mr. SHERIDAN rote, and &jelled to a Com-
mittee of that Houfe proceeding to the coufideratioo
of any meafure with the nature and extent of which
they were unacquainted: He knew that the Right
Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pitt) was in polliffion of a
fchedule, Chewing the, we amount of the prefent
Stamp Duties, and of the relation which they bore'
to thole now defired to be impofed ; be obferved, even,
that other Members of the Houle were pottered of
fimilar fchedules ; he could not, therefore. figure any
' reafon why they were not in the hands of every Mem-
ber of the Houfe, and he thought that the Houfe in
general, and be, ar one, had a right to complain that
this was not the cafe. Without thine evidence before
their eyes,,of the relative amount of the duties they
were called on to epee with thofe which prefently
exifted, inftead of thoufands they might be impofing
millions of additional taxes on their Conftiments.—
In his opinion, it was not to be endured, that. Go-
vernment asould build a revenue to itfelf on the pre-
vention of jullice to the community. On this ground
he had an objeaion to the taxes of this defcription
which it was propored to increafe. He had no ob.
jeeion to increafe the revenue of the country by any
of the common and ordinary means, but he could
not help thinking it monftrous, that with Inch a
view the inhabitants of this country mould be denied
sneers to jullice. A licence to apply for juflice bad
been uniformly 441.94.1. Asa 1644 been sticrapted
ly in' the molt arbitrary times. He defied any man,
however, to point out a meafure which had a
meter s7efembLence to a licence to obtain law than
feveral of thofe now projetled teemed to amount to.
He remembered a Prong and appofite remark of a
very lhrewd and difcerning man upon this fubjett, Mr.
H.Tooke, who obferved, that it was boafted the Law
Courts of this Country were open for every man
who fought jullice; and fo alto was the London Ta-
vern : but to a man who was deftitute of money
to obtain it, jrifiire was as far out of his reach in the
one, as luxitriu in the other. The tax was betides a
very dangerous precedent; for a Miniker might fay,
a (lamp duty was a handy way of railing money, and
it might go on to an elects which would sbfolutely
preclude men from reeking any redrefs at law. Even
in the prefent fchedule, the tax on proceedings in
Chancery were railed to as per cent. This mutt pre-
vent men totally from reeking any redrefs in that
Court, where the uncertainty of fuccefs would hard-
ly be worth the rile of expence, and defeat utter ruin.
It was totally faerificing the public jullice of the coun-
try for the fake of railing the revenue. It was open-
ing the Courts to the rich, and totally excluding the
poor and the oppreffed from every chance of jullice,
whom it was the object of the laws to proted and
redrefs free of any charge, for they contributed to
the original charges for the adminiltration of judice
in the payment of his Majefty's judges. It was in
fait to bring things to the original date previous to
the attainment of Magna Charta, when the fubjea
Curtained the gti:vance of paying a licence to the
King for liberty to enter his Courts in fearch of ju Rice,
and thus actually felling the judice of the land io
violation of the principle of that great Charter—.
wow vcodentus, multi ociatitus, juttitiairs."
It might be a derivable thing, he would allow, to dif-
courage the tpirit of litigation ; but this ought not to
be done by terrifying femurs from feeling real right
by taxes and penalties ; the expenses of law were al-
ready futficiently enormous and oppredive, and it
would be the duty of Government to reduce inftead
of increAfing them. He objected alto to the annual
titx upon Attotnies, to which they ought sot to be
liable more than men of other profeffions ; though he
would admit the original tax upon admiffion might
have a falutAty operation in keeping improper per-
loos out of the profeflion. He objected alfo to the
tax on infurance for annuities, as it would fevercly af-
fed a deferring clads of people; and he was the more
furls* ifed at its coming from a Right Hon. Gentle-
man who, in his Bill fur the Income Tax, particular-
ly excepted from the charge the afTurance lin annui-
ties. But by this tax, the poor curate, who from a
fcanty pittance +oared to contribute fomething dining
lire, by way of alluring for his a ;dim and children
Come means of evidence on his demife, would be fe-
verely injured. Walling, however, to feparate thole
clauses in the lehedule which were peculiar ly obnoxious,
in order En future and fuller dilcufGon. and not to
impede thole which were not 11, exceptionable, he
moved "that it be an inliroalon to she Committee
to divide this Bill into two Bills, if they &all think
fit."

—.The CHANCEI.LOR of the EXCHEQUER
raids that if the Hpa. CenOman 1141 crnployad a vary

fmall portion of the time which had elapfed fine
bufinefa was lad before the Houfe. in looking at t!,t,
papers on the table, his mind would have been elm
pletely relieved from the anxiety under which it fe me
he had laboured concerning the prefent meafure. He
would have found that a fchedule. containing the ave-
rages and totals of the &Taal duties, Inch as he had
alluded to, was akually on the table ; and he would
have Peen, that indeed of soo,oool. as he hay conjec-
tured, they did not amount to above from 50, 000!. to
60,0001. He was lorry that -this fehedule bad not
been printed, as then the Hon. Gentleman might
have employed foam of his friends to read it for him,
by which means be might have collOed tome little
knowledge of its contents. . He allotted to the ground i
of objeBion lea night. that the propafed ncreafe
would fall too feverely on the lawyers, and Paid that
be was happy to find that their advocates in that
Houk badover•rated their objedions to the meafure.
He had explained one error which had crept in, and
which he was glad to know bad removed every ob.
jedion of the Gentlemen alluded to. except as to the
licence. He now found another objedion brought
forward, unqueltionably of a more important nature
—namely, that the nada* was sncoofidutional. as
it went to lay a tax on judicial proceedings. It was
with pkalure, however, that he would fatisfy the ob.
jedions of the Honourable Gentleman on this head.
A fimilar tae bad exitted /ince the time of King
Liam, at which period it was not altogether likely
tha thing very onamaitutional would be at.
tempted.
There could not, he Should imagine, be
any thing therefore untontlitutional or inconfident
while fuel a variety of other things were liable to
additional taxation, in Wanting that fpecies of tax
now °Welted to. The Right lion. Gentleman alfo
contended that fa& taxes went to prevent improper
litigation, the more particularly as the coda in corn.
soon full on the party who bad carried on an impro-
per adios; while on the other band. the honed and
poor litigant was wadded to appear infireeposprir.
He therefore law no redoes for irritating the two
parts of the insofar, which he thought would be
more generally underhood when Peen in one point of
t view. - - . . _

Mr. SHERIDAN anfwered, that it would be a
tedious operation indeed for Members to be obliged
to read the paper, one after another, inftead of bar.
in it printed.
Dr. LAWRENCE entered into a long examina-
lion of the different items of the accounts, to which
he very pointedly and ilrennoufly objeaed, as be-
ing moft unequally and oprelEvely laid on. He re-
capitulated and enforced his arguments on a former
night, and fupported the mottoes of Mr. Sheridan,
in order, as every part of the useafore was not ob-
jeaisoabk. that an opportunity might be afforded of
rendering it as palatable as ble.
Mr. ADDINGTON took a confiderable Dore of
the odium (if any), which attached to the formation
of the fehednle before the Houle, upon himfelf.—
The Stamp Duties bad, through the exertions of a
Learned Friend of his, been fd generally fimplified,
that be confidered that the advantages in many in,
dances were more than equivalent to any advance
which had been made in the rate of duty.
Sir W. PULTENEY differed from the Hon
Gentleman who fpoke lad as to going into a Com.
mittee. The queftion goes to a great general prin.
ciple, and was not fo proper for a Committee. fie
thought the tax on law proceedings highly uncoil.
ftitutsocal, and the Right Hon. Gentleman be knew
once thought fo himfelf.
Mr. Serpent BEST very ably oppofed the Tax on
Law Proceedings', as abfolutely barring the doors of
the Courts of Jultiee spina all the poor. as well as
the middling order off-misty ; and laid, thatnoman
could venture to leek juftice for a moderate fum of
money without an expence of a damp more thav it
was worth his while to pay. He denied that the Cot*
of fuit fell upon the lofing party; for that party fres
quality became infolvent during the cootie of huge.
tion, and not only the coils of profecution, but the
enormous expence of Ramps,. was to be added to the
lefs of debt already fuftained. In many cafes the cit.
cumftances were fo equally poifed that no cods were
allowed by the Court to either fide, and in this cafe
the incurred charge of Ramps would fall heavily on
both. He confidered it as in effea a fate of jullice,
and a rneafure which would deter men from teeking
juflice. He always underllood the fair principle of
taxation to be, that taxes fhould be laid nn thole who
were moll able to bear them ; but in this cafe the
principle would be inverted, and the burthen of the
tax thrown where it could leaft be borne, upon the
indigent and dithered. The tax ad valorem on the
transfer of property, was a principle equally oppref.
five, as it was a tax on the property, and not on an-
nual income, which the dint-Oki borrower pr;el, by
frequent transfer, while the rich polreffor for twenty
years paid nothing- Upon the whole he confidered
it as a decided bar againtl public jullice.
Mr. DICKINSON laid, the tax did not op-
prefs the poor, nor debar them againa plaice, be-
caufe it did not attach upon the proceedings before.
Magifirates throughout the Kingdom.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL laid. the whole
of the arguments againit taxing law proceedings
were not againft the prefent Bill, but aguish all the
preceding Bills for impofing fuch taxes, and which
the prefent Bill did no more than inmate.
Mr. WINDHAM faid that ilk was an evil origi-
nally to tax Law proceedings, as he fully agreed it
was, it furely murk be a ttill greater evil to tncreafe
the tax. He coincided with all the arguments urged
againti it, as a tax on public jultice, and decidedly
againfl the maxim of Dr. Johnfon, that to bring the
poor man and the rich one to meet on equal terns of
juilice, was the greatell defider /CUM in our iyitem of
jurilprudence ; a defideratum of which he always
del-paired. but which this fyftem would render Rill
more irnprallicable.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
explained.
Alter Mr. WINDHAM had faid a few words is
explanation, Stranger► were ordered to withdraw,
but the motion was negatived without a divifi-n.
When admiffion was again given, the Haile was in
a Committee on the Ciallitt of die Stamp Duty h.li.
Mr, ALEXANDER in the Chair.

Mr. SHERIDAN (+jetted to the Sch. ! ••
coming part of the Bill, AS 11141111 g kid I, •ci:
cipated to the Houfe by which its judowl: co
be formed on fo material an Addition.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCIftQJ)L
Laid, to lean out the kbettule would be

•
'of the moI itnportant and cfficiett
,portirms of eit
Bill. If the Honourable Gentlem wanted infor-
mation of the exiting (lamps. a hi WAS printed,
which was in the hatids of every flationer. He kern;
to negleft every ordinary means of gaining intell;-
rice, and to be difpofed to call for documents whith
will ,4ivt him no explanation whatever.
Mr. SHERIDAN was furplifed to hear the fen(
and underitanding of the Crlmmittee was thus to be
employed on loofe, irregular papers, inilead of being
affitied by the .iwodation of authenticated initru-
punts. Ti Bill, which was to difappoint all the
ends of juitict in the country. was introduced under
eirrumtlances peculiarly fuited to its nature And de-

fign.
Mr. STUR.GES BOURNE attributed the cliffl-
cnity tclt by tie Hon. Gentleman not to any defici-
ency in the papers on the Table, but to fume inatt?n-
tion on hi. part in regard to the contents of thufe
parer,.
,4A. the Chairman proceeded with the classics, a
defulti2ty converfation took place, in which Mr. See-
jeant Bed-, Mr. Huficiffon, Sir W Eltnrd, Mr. Wm.
Smith, Mr. Fonblanque, Mr. Vannttarr, and the
Chancellor of the Exchequer fubmitted Tome obit rva-
tions to the Committee.
The SECRETARY at WAR conceived the Ho-
nourable Gentleman oppofite (Mr. Sheridan) had
been guilty of many inaccuracies, io his lath and
reafoning, which he had enjoyed fufficient opportu-
nity to have prevented.
Mr. SHERIDAN laid, the Right Hon. Secretary
bad the happinefs to belong to a country where they
poste fed the fecond fight; l.e unfortunately was of a
blundering race in the Weft, and might reafonably
Biped flume eompaffion for his hereditary infirmities.
With all that refped he felt for the foperior difcern-
mcnt of the Rigbt Hon. Secretary, it was his duty
to fay the Bill was calculated to prevent the at.
tainment of jußfce in our public Clurte ; it was
not to impole large film; on Hackney Coaches,
Clerk Medicines, arid Lavender water. It was
not on the c •nilitutional grounds connected with the
life of Dr. Anderfon's Pills that he ohjetted to it,
but it infringed the facred principles of our political
coalitution, which no pharmaceutic remedy could
fubfequently rellore. Four or five hundred th,'u-
land pounds were in multifarious forms to be railed
by thefe 'lamps, and the poor were to be deprived
of that proteilion of the Law to which they were
entitled If all the quacketius of Ministers of State
were ordered to be liamped, he was appreherftve that
fome of them would be thought entitled to receive a
very kramilioup !
Tlw CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
thought the prefent not the proper Rage to enter
into the general principles of the Bill ; the Hon.
Gentleman feemed to have very loon forgotten,
that his motion was not to abrogate but to divide
the Bill. The figures he had alto mutated; and
what was most unlucky for him was, that he could
not coma his arithmetic without (Inlaying bis

ar;,,timent.
Mr. SHERIDAN made a &on reply; after
which feveral other claufes were read and arced
tr. The Houfe being refumed, it was refolyed, that
the Hotife fhould refolve itfelf into the fame Commit-
tee. report progrels on Friday.
Mr. iIIiSKISSON brought up a Bill to enable his Mayfly to
rare a font not exceeding two millions and a half fterhng in Bs-
Chequer Bilk, to be inited foe that purple. wu read, din iintglk
laid agreed to be read a fetond time to-morrow. Alfo a Saner a
grant to his Majetty out of the Confolidated Fund of the year
1804, went through the fame Rages.
The Bill for the Regulation of the Accountant-General's Once
bras read a feetind time, and is to be cumulated in a Coniadttoe of
the whole Houk on Friday neat.
The other Orders of the Day were then read.
The Frith Revenue Bill Is to be committed on Friday neit.
The BM fur the better fupport of his Majeßy's huufchold was
had a :hird time and pared.
The Bill for the Encouragement of the Leather Trade was read
fttond time, and it was rdolved that it be cemmitted In a Com-
mittee of the whole Houk tmatorrow afro the Bill for the Re-
gulation of the Miseries.
The I loufe refulred itfelf into a Committee on the Lottery
Bill, and on the Chair bring awned. It was agreed to report

progrefs to-morrow.
'lhe Officers Frank Bill wag read a third time and paffed.
The llle of Man Trade Regulation Bill was read a fecood time,
load ordered to be committed to morrow.
The Report on the Circulation of Irinil3ank Notes was brought
op by Mr. ALEXANDER : the amendments were read a fecund
Arne and agreed to. The Bin, with the amendments, to be en.
Woricti, and read a third time to morrow.
The Houle will to morrow refolge itfeif into a Committee on
the Froperty Cuinntiflioncts' Bill—Adjourned.

LONDON.