Star.
London, England, 1829-05-16 00:00:00

. .
'elected to serve in Parliament since the passing of the
late Act. The Hon. Member at the table was, es he
and all the House Pell knows, returned long lefori. the
Passing of the Act, and therefore he can only refer to
the law as it.iffected all persons returned to serve ,in
Parliament before the alteration which has been lately
. made. That alteration consisted in repealing the oath
of supremacy and the declaration against transubstan-
lietien, leaving other particulars as they stood before.
-.Under the former state of the law it was necessary that
every Member, before entering the House, should take
the'oaths of allegiance and supremacy before the Lord
Steward or his Deputy, and aftetwards the oaths of
allegiance, supremacy, and abjuration, in this House.
The view which I take of the state of the law, before
the late alterations, is confirmed by the uniform usage
of the House, and by an express Act of Parliament.—
This being my view of the law, it is my duty to state
to the Hon. Gentleman that he cannot persevere in the
course which he has adopted. and must, therefore, with-
. draw. I have had less hesitation in stating my view
• of the case, because it cannot in any way prejudice the
rights of the Hon. Gentleman, who will have tern ways
of redressing any wrong which he may sustain. The
first method is appealing to the House by way of peti-
tion ; the second is by entrusting his case into the hands
of any Hon. Gentleman who is already, a full Member
of the House, and who can bring the question on for
discussion. For the present it is my duty, to state to the
Hon. Member that he must withdraw.
Mr. O'Connell then bowed to the Speaker, and re-
tired under the gallery.
Mr. BROUGHAM immediately rose and said, that,
however difficult he felt it to approach a question of so
delicate a nature, yet he ventured to submit to the
House whether, upon every principle of reason and jus-
tice, as well as upon the strictest usage of the House,
the Hon. Gentleman who had just retired was not en-'
titled to be beard at the table, and to acquaint the
House from th nce with the objections which be enter-
tained to taking she oaths which had been tendered to
him by the Cleik ? (Here there was considerable noise,
and cries of st Order, order," •' Bar, bar," interrupted
the Hon. Member for some time. Some Members called
upon Mr. Brougham to speak loud. The Hon. and
-Learned Member proceeded.) He had a great defe-
rence for the House, and was therefore anxious to make
himself plainly heard; but the Hon. Gentlemen about
the bar would perhaps perceive that to enable trim to
succeed in that object it would be necessary that the
Hon. Gentlemen should make rather less noise, and
favour him with their silent attention. I understand,
Sir ('aid Mr. Brougham, addressing the Speaker), that
the difficulty in your mind. and which induced you to
form the judgment which you have just pronounced, is,
that it is generally understood that whilst a Member is
at the table for the purpose of being sworn, all business
in the house is to cease. If this position were not de-
nied, or were even doubtful, I am 'aware that during
the continuance of the Honoorable Member for Clare
at the table I should have been precluded from ad-
dressing the House even upon that question. But, now
that the Hln. Gentleman has retired. I say, that; al-
though the House has received your construction of
the law, and your opinion as to the peculiar position in
• winch the H incurable Gentleman is 'placed upon the
present occasion, yet we ought to exercise our own:dis-
cretion upon the subject, and recall the Honourable
Member, for the purpose of stating his own case to the
House. This proposition I state in regard to the prier-
`es of the House, and without meaning to depart in
the sliehtest degree from the profound respect which I
entertain for you, or from that deference with Uhich I
receive every opinion which proceeds from that Chair.
But the question at present in issue is one of great im-
portance; and the opinifio of no man, whether in or out
of the House, ought to bind the House of Commons so
as to prevent them from giving a deliberate opinion upon
a question of such great Importance to 06: own privi-
leges and construction. The question at present be
f ire the House (said the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman) is, whether the Member for Clare shall
be allowed to speak from his place—for what must for
the present be considered as his place, the floor at the
table—and to. assign the reasons in consequence of
which he believes he has a right to sit in the House
upon only taking certain oaths, and without the veers-
lily of taking other,' Upon this part of the subject, the
right of Mr. O'Connell to address the House. he (Mr.
Brougham) should take leave to cite, for the considera-
tion of the House, two or three precedents upon the sub-
ject, which be thought would fully bear him cut in the
propositions which he had laid down, and which were
well worthy of the consideration of the House. The first
case was that of Sir H. Monson. which took place 13th
May, 1689. and the other was that of Viscount Fan.
shawe, which occut red on the same day. It appeared by
the journals of the House, and by every account which
remained of the proceedings which took place upon
that oicasion, that Sir Henry Monson was at the table,
awl that some discusion, little or much, took place
there; and that he was called iu by the authority of the
House, and asked if he had any objection to take the
u ual oaths ? He answered that he had objections. but
that they were entirely personal, regarding only him-
self, and not in any degree calculated to produce danger
Cr uneasiness to the King's Government. It appeared
that Sir Hew y Monson spoke a new sentences, at least,
in explanation of . the objections which. he had to the
oaths. The House, it appears, was not satisfied with
his es planation, and he was directed to withdraw. A dis-
enssioe then took place upon the question, and the re-
strt was that the seat was declared vacant,'and a new
writ issued. But what he now wished 'moat particu-
larly to impress upon the House was that which took
place before the issuing of the writ, namely, that the
party whose interests were more immediately concerned
was heard at.the table of the House to. state his ow n
ease before it was disposed of. Ia the case of Mr. Arch-
dale a similar course was pursued. He stated that he
could not in conscience take the oaths winch were ten-
dered, and a new writ issued. The same was tl.e course
pursued in the case of Lord Fanshawe; but in all of
them the party concerned had a hearing, and addtes-ed
the House from the table before be witbdtew. This
question it was of course impossible to raise until tie
Honoorailtr-Member for Clare had withdrawn. It
seemed to hum (Mr. Brougham) that the only coarse
which now Remained was, to recall the Honriurable
Gentleman to the table, and allow him to state the
oroonds on which he objected to the oaths. If, after
hearing these objections, the House should again order
tam to withdraw, they would at least come to the Cult-
sldeitation of the main qnestion with more information
than they possessed as present. The House, he was sure,
would see that the inipeetance of the subject rendered
it absolutely necessary that %key should proceed in
every stage with the utmost delsiseration—(Hear).—
The Honourable Member then sat doses. but cries of
it Move, move," resounded from all sidekoftbe Mahe,
upon• which he again rose, and said that he bad already
sufficiently, and as fully as he was able, explained
to the House the views which he entertained of %be ques-
tion then before the House. He considered it a Phial,