Star.
London, England, 1810-03-28 00:00:00

make out the charge, for nothing could be te._
formal or absurd than to call on his Hon. Friel..
(Sir F. Burdett) for an answer, till he had heard
something more definite than the general contents of
that voluminous publication.
Mr. LETHBRIDGE, in reply to what had fallen
from the Noble Lord (Folkestone), would only re-
Mind the House that he had professed himself ready
to point out the-passages on which the complaint was
raised. He had stated that he marked those pas.
sages, but he had not thought it proper to press his
opinion on the House, lest it might be said, that his
complaint was supported by garbled documents. He
intended, from the beginning, to adopt any line
which the House thought proper to choose for him,
because he had brought forward the matter only its
affecting the House ; he had no motive of personal
hostility ; he stood forward there out ofrespect to the
country, ind as the representative of as independent
a body of men as any in Old England. He would
now proceed to state those passages which he had
marked. The first of these was one in the Preamble
of the Address, containing the following extraordi-
nary language—
" The House of Commons having passed a vote, which
amounts to a declaration that an order of theirs is to 1:i:of more
importance than Magna Charta andrtbe laws of the land,l think
it my duty to lay my sentiments thereon before my consti-
tuents, whose character as freemen, and even whose personal
safety, depend, in a great degree, upon the decision of this ques-
tion • a question of ne less importance than this; whether our
liberhis be still to be secured by the laws of our forefathers, or be
to lie at the absolute mercy of a pan of our fellow subjects, col-
lected together by means which it is not necessary for me to de-
scribe r'
The next passage to which he would call their at-
tention was, that one in which the address talked of
the place of imprisonment :
" If they have the absolute power of Imprisoning and releas-
ing, why may they not send their prisoners to York jail, as well
as to a jail in London ? Why not confine men in solitary cells, or
load them with chains and bolts ? They have not gone those
lengths yet ; but what is to restrain them, if they are to be the
sole judges of the extent of their own powers, and if they are to
exercise those powers without any controul, and without leaving
the parties whom they choose to punish any mode of appeal, any
means of redress ?"
" That I deny," says Mr. LETHBRIDGE.—
(A laugh.)
The next was from the conclusion of the Address,
which terminated in those words :
" In doing this, I shall do all that now remains in my power
towards the correction of this, as I deem it, most enormous abuse
of power, and most dangerous of all encroachments upon the
rights and liberties of Englishmen."
The next passage was, from that part of the pub-
lication which was entitled the Argument.
`• Had I not been prevented by indispcmden, from-being pre-
sent when the House of Commons passed by vote a sentence of
imprisonment of Mr. Gale Jones, I should have endeavoured to
shew, that tinder the false notion of privilege, they were exercis-
ing a power, and committing an act of oppression ill suited to the
character of guardians of public liberty, and destructive of the
first and mosrimportant object of the Constitution, viz. the per-
sonal security of the subject.'
The next passage was that commencing in the fol-
lowing words : .
" Founded on such a bash, fertiffed by such authorities as I
shall have occasion to appeal to In the progress of this inquiry, I
have little doubt of being able to convince every impartial mind,
that the House of Cetrunoes, by proceeding to judgment—passing
a sentence of imprisonment—issuing a warrant of anninitment—
has gone beyond its prescribed limits, acted in a manner incon-
sistent with the ends of the institution, and violated the funda-
mental principles of the Law and Constitution of the bind."
The next passage was—
, " By proceeding thus, they have exercised a jurisdiction not
vested in them, a jurisdiction beyond the limits of King, Lords,
'and Commons, while Magna Charm remains unrepealed ; acrd re-
pealed it never can be till England shall have found her grave in
the corruption of a House of Commons."—(Lsed trier of hear 1
from Me Opposition./
The next obnoxious passage was, that subsequent
to the Speaker's warrant.
" Let this instrument, this thing, fa ghterir, be contrasted with
the description of the properties of a legal warrant. Does it not
evidently appear, that this piece of unsealed paper, signed by the
Speaker, by which an untried subject has been outlawed, bears no
feature of legality ? and that, from the commencement of this
proceeding, in its progress, and to its conclusion, there is not one
step that has not been marked in a peculiar manner with disre-
spect for the laws ? a disrespect in which all the parts have been
wonderfully consistent throughout, in constituting the most un •
lawful act the mind of man can possibly conceive."--( Hear,hear,
from the Treasury Bench.)
Mr. LETHBRIDGE now called the attention of
the House to a passage, which he thought would of
itself substantiate all complaint ; it was this :
" But no wonder when they have so entirely departed from
the ends of their institution, as was offered to be proved by Mr.
Maddocks, and acknowledged by themselves in the never to be
forgotten morning of the 11th of May, 1809, when from being
the lower or inferior (for it is the tame sense, one being an Eng-
lish, the other a Latin word) branch of the Legislature, they have
become the proprietors by burgage tenure of the whole represen-
tation, and in that capacity, inflated with their high-flown fanci-
ful ideas of Majesty, and tricked out in the trappings of royalty,
think privilege and protection beneath their dignity, assume the
sword of prerogative, and lord it equally over the King and the
people."
These were the specific passages on which the com-
plaint was founded : on these he "stood calling upon
that Honourable House to vindicate itself from a
series of unjust and unjustifiable aspersions, and pu-
nish the violation of their privileges in what manner
might, to their wisdom, appear most fitting.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT, in an under tone of
voice, said that the Hon. Member (Mr. Lethbridge)
must point out the nature of the charge. There ,was
to his (Sir Francis's) mind no charge in the extracts
which had been read from his Address to his Consti-
tuents. That Address contained all of argument that
he knew on the subject, and he could new add nothing
to those arguments. The Address was his. _The
arguments which it contained were his ; he was ready
to see them subjected to the most rigorous inquiry;
but till he should hear from the Honourable Mem-
ber something in refutation of the principles, he could
not undertake their defence. Was it to be supposed
that the simple act arguing on the powers of the
Commons was a crime Would not the House en-
dure even an abstract doubt of their 'sowers ? This
doubt was the entire of the charge hitherto adduced;
if a stronger one lay behind, it must be brought for-
ward before he could be expected to meet it by an
answer. He was willing to abide by the fact and ar-
gument of that paper ; he would stand to the issue,
but if it were even the pleasure of the House that
he should now withdraw, he was ready to withdraw.
.—(Loud cries of No, No! from the House.)
Mr. SPEAKER.—" This is the firm of proceed-
ing ' • an Honourable Member states his complaint to
the House ; the Honourable Member who is the ob-
ject of the complaint, is then heard in reply ; he ad-
mits, or repels, or denies the statement, It is the
custom that he should then withdraw, and it becomes
the part of the Hon. Mover to subunit a motion foun-
ded on the subject of offence, to the House. It then
becomes a matter of debate, as any other motion

f

tom, and may be tarried, 43t' Mime%
at the- discretion of the House It ceases to be inter-
fered with by the Hon. Member whose conduct has
furnished the complaint. This is the form of parlia-
mentary proceeding ; the old, unchinged, and, I hope,
unchangeable form."
Sir Francis Burdett then withdrew.
The SPEAKER informed the Hon. Mover (Mr.
Lethbridge) that the time was now come for him to
prepare his motion, as the Hon: Baronet had-with-
drawn.
Lord OSSULSTON spoke to order. He said
,that in his opinion the charges were not sufficiently
.matured:
The SPEAKE,R could not agree with the Noble
Lord, that the proceeding was net sufficiently ma-
toted : the whole transaction, so far as it had gone,
*as in perfect conformity to the ancient, established,
unbroken, unabrogated rule of Parliament. (Crier
if Chair ! )
Mr. LETHBRIDGE then rose to submit the Re-
solutions which he meant to found upon the docu-
ment which he had given in, and had been read at
the table. In stating the grounds upon which he felt
it his duty to bring this sti*ct under the considera-
tion of the House, it was his' intention not to trespass
-at any length upon its attention.
• Lord FOLKSTONE, on this, called the Hon. Gen-
tleman fo order. If the Hon. dember was to make
a speech at all, he should have made it before his Hon.
Friend (Sir Francis Burdett) had withdrawn. When
the lion. Member had called the attention of the
House to. certain passages in the publication before
the House, which he charged as objectionable, he
.should then have which-
how these passages were in
breach of the Privileges of that House. It was such
an explanation on the part of that Hon. Gentleman,
which he had in a former instance called for, as it
was his decided opinion, that any speech he had to
make ought to have been spoken before the Honoura-
ble Baronet had withdrawn. Undoubtedly the Hon.
Member was not called upon to bring forward his
Resolutions in the same way. He was himself fully
aware that the practice of that House required the
Honourable Baronet to withdraw before any specific
motion, founded on the grounds of charge, should
be submitted to the House. He begged Gentlemen
to consider the awkward and embarrassing situation
in which his Hon. Friend was placed, by having
withdrawn before he had an opportunity of hearing
the statement of the Hon. Gentleman as the manner
in which- the passages specified were considered by
the Hon. Member as violations of the Privileges of
that House.
The SPEAKER looked upon the course proposed
by the Hen. Mover to be perfectly consistent with
the uniform and established practice of that House.
The Hon. Member was then speaking about the propo-
sition which he had felt it necessary to bring forward
respecting the parts of the production which made the
foundation of his complaint to the House. He ap-
prehended, therefore, that it was perfectly competent
to that Hon. Member to proceed now to 'state the
reasons upon which he grounded the motion he was
about to submit, and which he conceived sufficient
to justify him in bringing the complaint under the
consideration of the House. Unless he had inad-
vertedly omitted some step in the progress of the pro-
ceeding, it was his opinion that the course proposed
to be pursued was strictly in order.
The CHANCELLOR of tke EXCHEQUER
;coincided in the doctrine so clearly laid down from
the Chair. The individual who thinks it his duty to
bring forward a charge, is bound to make a complaint
in the first instance to the House, and then to lay the
particular grounds of his charge upon the table, in a
specific shape. In the case under consideration, the
whole of the document upon which the charge was
founded had been read by the Clerk at the table ; and
the Hon. Member bringing forward the charge, had
even pointed out, and read in his place, the particu-,
lar passages which he conceived to amount to a viola-
tion of the privileges of that House. The Hon. Baro-
net had had an opportunity to prove, if he could, that
the passages so specified did not violate the privileges
of that House; he had the opportunity to strew how far
they contained the sentiments of a person who enter-
tained a respect for the privileges of that House ;
how far they were innocent in themselves, or justifia-
ble upon any grounds. The Hon. Gentleman, there-
fore, who brought forward this question, was very
properly proceeding to state the grounds upon which
he considered the passages he had pointed out, as vio-
lations of the privileges of that House. Upon the
principal of reasoning adopted by the Noble Lord,
the Hon. Baronet should not only hear the grounds
upon which the Hon. Mover brought forward his
Resolutions, but all the arguments which should be
made use of in the whale course of the discussion.
(No ! No!) Upon the reason of the thing, he would
admit, that an individunl under an accusation ought
to be allowed to hear all that might be urged in sup-
port of the charge against him. But upon very good
and sufficient reasons, that House had thought pro-
per to adopt a different course in its proceedings, and
to act uniformly upon the principle which dictated
it. If the Hon. Baronet were therefore to be allowed
to hear the speech of the Honourable Gentleman
(Mr. Lethbridge), he would have an equal right to
hear the whole discussion ; and as both were incon-
sistent with the uniform practice of that House, he
was determined to support the course pointed out by
the Chair.
Lord FOLKSTONE offered himself unwillingly
to the House, particularly as he differed from the
opinion of the Chair as to the propriety of the course
to be pursued. But whatever reluctance he might
feel on the occasion, he was bound to state the im-
pressions
which existed on his mind. There' were
but one or two precedents that he could call to mind,
as having occurred since he had the honour of a seat
in that House, both of which were in strict confor-
mity with the course he pointed'out in the present
instance. One of these precedents was the case of
the Right Hon: Gentleman himself (the Chancellor
of the Exchequer) last year. In that case an -Hon.
Member (Mr. Maddocks) whom he was happy to see
in his place, and who would correct him if he should
make any mistake, had submitted a brief complaint
to the House. Exception was taken to the proposi-
tion for proceeding with the charge at that time, and
consequently some days delay took place, after which
the Honourable Member brought forward his charge
again, which he prefaced with an argument of con-
siderable length, sheaving the grounds upon which
he founded his accusation. Tip Right Honourable

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