Star.
London, England, 1816-04-09 00:00:00

ORD9ANCII ISTIMATES.•

The House haviug revolved itself into a Commit-
tee of Supply.
Mr. It. WARD began by stating, that in regard
to the department to -which he belonged, he bored
to be abie to prove to the Committee, that there ex-
isted every possible disposition to observe the strictest ,
economy. It was the particular desire of tlw Mimes
General to reduce the expense as lo'w as poisible con-
sistently with the safety of the country. From an.
average war estimate of N 4,300,000, the expenses of
the peace establishment of the Ordnance were now
reduced to £1,600,000, and there was to he a far-
ther reduction, which would make the whole of the
peace establishment amount so no more than
R 1,439,000. This, however, was not the annual
peace establishment, which in a tew years would be
much less, because there existed this year certain ar-
ticles of expense called the expenses of reduction.—
When it was considered, Chat, in the year 1783, a:
the end of the Aineric Ai-, the Ordnance peace
establishment amounted to 81.449,000, the present
reduced establishment must strike every body as con-
sistent with the strictest economy. No doubt there
were same debts and extraordinary expenses in 1788
which did not exist at present, Rad which raised the
sumacs high at that time. A reduction now took Wales
in the military knee of the Ordnance of st4.4.7i(Ait).
There was also it great reduction in the Civil Depait- I
meat, all the war salaries had lee put down, the
Secretary and Clerks Jost their wa aalowarices, the
Master-General was not allowed the .C4UO a-year
which he had received as Military Secretary ; a gteat
reduction had taken place at Wo4alch, by the dis
charged- labourers, storekeepers, rte. but the most
important reduction was in the Military a. partnient.
Out Artillery had of late years been brought to the
highest state of perfection, in conseqiience of the
. science and gallant' y of the Officers. It was, indeed,
far beyond any service of a sirnibu kind iii tha world.
From this set vice all [arsons had been dischargcd
Who could be must easily replaced AI CAW of necessity,
and those only retained whose loss could not be easily
supplied. The men had keen discharged, but it was
thought adviseable to keep the .Otticars. This was
the desire of the Masua-Gentral, and die ptinciek

,on which he acted. In the Prbrinenl". tOrvice, ,
,illery bore s proportion to the lire of tiee.tenth
ptoportit:n new, in its redeced state, wauld h.! e
eleventh part. There were 11 m-n in tl.e imp
3.1 d only 10,000 Artillsremen, net iiicluslieg deppete
and Miners. The whole reduction from last sear wet
11e700 men, and the whole reduction Item the yew
1814 was 18,000 men. A plan had been adopted fcg
substituting the ()dicers of the Horse Artillery in the
place of the Officers of Drivers, by which means these
m :st valuable teen were reserve., to ae country,
The driver officers hid no command in the field, cr
military rank, as the youngest Lieutenant in the field
belonging to the line might command a Captain el
drivers; so it was evident that t!.is w.ts an inconve.
fluent service; and now that the artillehley
^rficets were
to go into the driver cores, it wasysille:ef,lecthuantorelier
driver officers should retire on fell ety. All the tr.
ductions, he
,now stated, arneunted to the SUM
wiCa3s7,oo:erairletelogienththeer.orAditsiAicatit:.lsa.r sin
Medical De•
partment, there was a reduction which produced a
sating of £10,009 altogether. Of the Cadets, only
twelve were parted with, as it was eeetable to ret.ia
as many of these as possible. As ter the Extraerth.
naries, they were reduced above f Mao° name this
year than last. Immense exertions had ken nettle in
this Department in the article of stereo, the eh le of
which were reduced from de1,091,000, and therefee
'it would not he necessary to take money for stores
for a considerable time. The next expense retard to
the Works—a subject that bad alway• been viewed
with jealousy. The Works did not all include for.
tifications, because there were repairs and civil
buildings, which came under the denomilituina
Works. Here the Honourable Gentleman enente.
rated the several items of expense attending the
Works, the whole of whash =fainted to .1-21.5,teat,,
Fiom these expenses so many reductions had bete
mode, that he should only ask for JeI7CVXX) for the
service of the year•. The guns of the brieaaes had
been reduced front six to font-, which Callts:Ja
nution of expense to toe amount of eel 4,e00. T/.e
barrack establishment was also leFte..ed by £ll3OO.
There was also a teduct.on of expense iu the Staff.
He next came to the expenses of reduc,a.n. There

was in the first place sn expense or fi

small arittis. Diving war it hecame necessary to
give orders to contractors to make as many
arms as posyiLle, until they received notice to stop.
When they did stop it way nrce.saly to take all the
411119 they hid on hand, and alto to prevent them
from suffering a lcus, which must fuliow from stop-
ping their work; therefore Government' took away
trosu them to the amount of XlOO,OOO for thtee
years. There was another expentx of reklocim
amounting to Elth),l6o. 'lle 1,2,111c:i0n of e 7.1
officers to half pay, WAS another expeose of £(5000,
' After various other statements, the kinnourahle Gcn.
tieman moved his first Resolution, to grant 4959,220
f:,r Ore charge of the Office of Ordnance, for Laud
Set vice for the year 1816.
Mr. CALCRA FT admitted the snbj-ct was a dry
one, and he en;etc:+ upon k with the less pleasure„as
he And his friends hal keen defeated in tht ir maul a.

---
jecr, the reduction of the military establishment.—
The Hon. Gentleman contended, in looking at the
supplementary estimates just tle,canted upon, co
proof of actu ,1 economy Lad taken place ; 14, in
tact, it was not a peace estimate 'Pie. Civil Esc:L.
hiishment in Pall Mall was now £45,0.10 ; La
1796, it the Hoe.Nernbtr had looked back, he would
have found it only 5e17,000. He valid not, tlitNl tre,
say, that a machine which WAS worked in 1795 at Sa
low a rate, was now in a train of reduction, v!ith as
increased charge of something beyond 4'26(00 ;
nor could he see the material reduction in Woo!
or •in the Barrack Department. As to the milit4
amps, if it was the wish of Government that anal,.
tart' establishment should be kept up to ...he extent it
now is, then, consequently, a propte Urinate artillery
should be kept up. The amount of the present ar-
tillery force was 13/60i) ; in 1792 that amount w.:5
miry 37(10; so that the amount, was now incieased
tour-fold. But, indeed, the whole of the military ex-
penditure was such as, it persisted in, must inevitably
weigh down the country. In respect to the drivers,
(admitting the propriety of keeping up the number
for the service of the Duke c,f We:vngton) there
could be no necessity for maintaining 1100 in Great
Britain alone. With respect to the reductions 13
irelAlld, it the Hon. Gentleman would go to unit
country, he would see that a considerable reduction
'night take place in those current set vices and cont:n-
gencies without danv:er to the state, rrticulaily in
that part of the sister kingdom called Spike lsiAndi.
The T.l(,n. Gentleman contended, that the labours of
die Socretary to the Blard were fully equal to that of tae
S.:cretary to-the Master General ; the latter has tau
' thousand pounds a year, and the former, who has to-
jured his health in the service, ouly /11.;00. He could
not see any just ground for this distinction. Upon
the whole, he did nut think a sufficient reduction had
' taken place.
Colonel PALMER observed, that there was
1,300,000' stand of arms in the Tower, there lere
tie
' thought a sum of £lOO,OOO would Rot be required
' for the supply of small arms.
' Mr. BENNET noticed, that a depot for arms had
been established at Shrewsbury, but it had not beat
used. This he thought a useless waste et the puba

money.
Mr. W. POLE said. this depot was built senile he
was in the Ordnance Office ; and the necessity vOts
e 1 for arming the Volunteers ; depots were cskiolith'
ed in different parts of the kingdom with thait
Ground was purchased accordingly, aktd
were erected.. In Shrewsbury tits gtounona
d taken srva
one acre, and the expense Of the Luilzling was
teSOO ; the whole of the expense f Officers, Sce,
seas about RSOUO. The grangeme,,ts• were inadf
upon mature consideration fin. the reception, in (14'1
reot parts of the kingdom, of 600,000 stand of arun,
io order to prestrve them in case of necessity, b. 4•
these depots could r.ot be used during the war.—.Tli°
believed that it was now intended they shtoild
the Local Militia arms.
Mr. BENNE'L observed, that the arms of t'lt'
Local Militia of Shrewsbury were lodged to otet
places in the town, and rent was paid for the store,
bruises to keep the arms in, which he vsnceiv4 migh
have been placed in better security in the depot.,
Mr. TRENIAYNE conbisisred, the lines o! Pi,
mouth useless.
Mr. DOUGLAS thought, this! many of 'be
ings, and particularly the Monello towers, warts olev

• •

usejest s it stoold else) be remembered, that the.same
irpense could not be borne in a time of great distress
es in a time of prosperity. He thought, that if the
resent state of expenditure' were persevered in, the
country was running a rapid race to A peace
with a war expenditure, and without th•• ceculiar ad-
vantages of war, Could not but prove -lest ructiv.:
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY said if it was not intended
to publish the maps, he should easly atter the recess
move an Address to that purpose.
Mr. BANHES thoug!tt that those maps should
be published, and thatthey would be every way ttaa et,
nail with regard to stieoce, to ornament, and to
'defence.
• Mr. WARD said, it was the intention of his Ma-
jesty's Goiernment to publish the maps as soon a;
convenient. He then entered into details of the Ord-.
Dance Department, and stated, that the Ordnance
Board had aothing to do with the military part of
the department, and that therefore the Master Gen-
eral and the Board had quite different duties. He
argued, that though there was a nominal increase,
there was an actual diminution in the expenses. There
had been a second Secretary all )wed in 1727,.a.nd
the duties had since very much increas-d. It had
been since tried whether one Secretary could pet fur m
the duties; but ft had been found that one person w.sl
not equal to the Arduous duties of the office. A most
meritorious individual, Colonel Chapman, had la-
boured at the duties day and night, and scarcely
with any intermission, and had been in nn the foot-
ing of Under Secretary of Star:, at 162.000 a•yea: ;
sad the 'office gained by the arrangement many.
bundreds a•year. The Honourable Gentleman
wherever he went into minuez, had shewu his ig-
norance. On the Barrack Department he had said,
that out of 41,100 a-year, £9C)() was paid for the
Management of 4200. But the tact was, that
the officer who received die Jew° a-year, had the
inanagement of upwards of 430,000 a-year.--
The Estimates had cettairly ne►t been brought for.
ward at first in a most eliges:ed slope, but they awed
that many reductions would cake place ; and in ac-
cordance with that statement the present Subsidiary
Estimates were brought forward. The Honourable
Gentleman, therefore, had no right to plume Ititmelt
on having forcea economy chi his Majesty's Govern-
ment. There had been a great accession of Clerks
since 1796, and they could net be d►scharged till all
the Accounts were settled ; a reduction eould then
take place. The Honourable Gentleman had shewu
equal ignorance on the Military part of the Dlairt-
mem. His opinion with regard to the Drivers was,
according to the very highest military authorities,
totally unfounded. The Master-General bad dis-
missed one-third of them, and that was a considerable
diminution. They had been most useful in the
last war. With ?award to Sappers and Miners, the
only point in which our arms had failed in the last
war, was when they were not engaged ; and there-
fore, they .a.elit not ao be neglected. With regard to
positi .us, it was the opinicn of General Bargoyzie
that Climber]) was the first Military pose:kit in the
kingdom, and having fortified it at the expense of
a million, were toe works to be let go to ruin ?
On the contingent expenses, it would be found that,
in comparison with ISJ3, there was teary c test: of
ride. With respect to store-houses, there had Leen
already a pertectatiswer given on that aenject. An
important subject was that of Plymouth ; Plymouth
aniet be entered at this moment, by stio men, and
destroyed. The werks had been going to absoltre
rain when the prerseat Ministry came
.in. Now, it
any expense ouatit to be laid ait un them, the entire
fortificanora should be compieted,.and certainly this
rem work must he very expensive. The works were
at present suspended, but it was a matter of painful
reflection that they ....ere so. With regard to the
Marlello towers, ti►e Honourable Gentleman had
misrepresented them. The entire expense ut keeping
them in repair would be but 42000 a year. It would
cost more to take them down than the materials were
worth. He concluded by hoping that the House felt
satisfied with his statement.
Sir WILLIAM LF.i!Oll thought, that the ford-,
cations contemplated at Plymouth we:e too great;
for if completed they would take 20,000 men to man,
and this number of military for cue station would
give but too much ground to the apprehension that
tae were fast approaching to a Military Government.
Mr. I)OI.IGLAS and Mr. WARD said a new WOl4lB in

mplaination
Colore' PALMER thought that the explanation
tithe Hon. Gentleman on the contract for the mane.
factory of small aims was not satisfactory.
Mr. FREEMANTLE was certain that at Ply-
mouth there was a scene of the greatest extravagance,
sad he hoped that Parliament would in the present
Session !educe that expenditure, the reduction of
thich could only save the country. The House, in
order to have a proper idea of the items of the pre-
sent estimate, eught to refer to that of 1797. There
was in the present estimate an item of repairs and
contingencies, which amounted to an enormous sum,
and he thought it was necessary that that should be
subdivided into particulars. Whatever might be di:,
opinion of General Burgoyne ha 1785, it was nech-
.ltwy at present that these estimates shon.ld be dirrii.
*bed. After several other observations, the Hun.
Gentle,. an concluded by expressing a hope that the
estimate would be farther reduced.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT hoped, that the former
discussion having produced so muds diminution, the
present would be Lmoductive of still more. MI :he
late reductions had proceeded from the discontinu-
ance of the Property Tax, and he hoped that the
Public would not cease in their exertions till they
brought the expenditure to a 1;:vel with the revenue.
kOSE defended the system which Ministers
were now pursuing, and which they had net adopted
without mature deliberation.
Mr. R. WARD explained. He thouglit it absp-
'llWlY necessary that the &a 13.itteries snould be
kept up,
Several of the amended Resolutions were then
lesid and agreed to.
0n the question that the House should take a
411ort of the Committee of Sot:ply into considera-
hekrelative to the Navy Estiniates-
-11r• BROUGHAM hoped the House would not'
evie,a_der so important a subject at o late an hour.
that come conversation, Mr. Bit(A:6llA:4moved
'in the Report be taken into farther consi6etation
Locnorroa, woicli was agreed rt.
• WESTERN considering the importance of
lut object, should not feel himself as tl-lng his duty

..• . .
.o vs co goment. gni tn.the country to pOttpOne his
rtri..n. which •stond for tn.mortf.w
sir J. NEWPO ItT asked when the question which
had been prorol4.:d at an early period of the present
Session, respecting the Consolidation of the Exche-
quers of England and Ireland, would be brought
forward? '
Mr. V. FITZGERALD said, that the subject
would be brought forward on an early period after
the recess.

BANK RESTRICTION ACT.
The House went into a Committee on the Bank
Restriction Act.

The 'CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
that it was the intention of Ministers t-► continue
the Bank Restr►ction for two► years. It had been ex-
Isnted thst the Bank would _resume their payments
m July, 1816 ; but the war, with all its horrors and
aIE its'expenses, had unespectedly arrived, and from
all ciicumstances, it was , absolutely 'necessary for
general security to continue the restriction. After
ie-stating a variety of arguments in favour of the
measure, the Right Honourable Gentleman moved,
that the restriction o►► the Bank of England's .pay-
ment in specie be continued for a period to be h-
ulked." *

Mr. GRENFELL thought that no time was more
proper than the present for taking off the restriction.
tVe might expect a Ilermanent peace, at least so Mi-
nisters had promised, the price of grid was much
dituin;ried, indeed it was, he beli..ved, hut three shil-
lings above the Mint price, and silver was upon a par
with die Mint in value. He was afraid that there had
been some improper connexion with the Bank, f.r the
Governor had, at a meeting, sufficiently ahem% of how
much advantage the restriction would be found.
Lord FOLKEST.ONE ttmight, that dote had
been some underhand struceetling with the Bank. He
could never understand why they could hot pay u
specie, or why the people were to have their own
money lent them at a considerable per cent age.
The CHANCELLOR- of the EXCHEQUER
thought, that the restriction would tend considerably
to the upholding of public credit, and the keeping at
edse the public mind.

Mr. PONSONOY svid, that the Government, in-
stead of being the masters of the Bank, had a lynch
by their conduct become their servants.
Mr. MELLISH said, the Bank di.l not ask the
rc•striceons—it was the House that direcied the ILA
no: to pay.
Alter some conversation between Lord CASTLE.'
nemar, Sir JOHN Nawpowr, Mr. GRENVELL, and tile
Cit.lt•CeLLott of the EXCHEQULIt, the Resi,lution as
originally moved was ahreed to. The House re-
sumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up
to-rni .n o w.

The house went into a C anmlttee on the Small
Farmers' Horse 'C .x Ace.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
should not troubie the House with any observations
at present, as the new regulations proposed would be
subject to discussion on the bringing up of the Report.
The SPEAKER :hen resumed the Chair, and the
Repot t was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
Tl.e tither Orders of the Day were then disposed
of, aad the House adjourned.

GSRM/1N P4PERS.
VIEWNA.MARCH 23.

The accounts iron' triesibt4te that the Arch.
duchess filtria Louihit arrived there on the ISth, under
the incugn.in of Duchess of Conorm). She imme.
diateiy visited the Lazaretto and other public estab-
lishwerits, but pr‘creded the folio% ing morning on
her journey to Verona and Parma.

NUPEMBERG, MARCII 29.
It is stated that Madame Hortensia 13azaparte has
obtained the permission for which she applied a month
ago, to reside in the Austrian States. Brigouz is
mentioned as the place of her residence for the pre-
sent.—lt is also said that Prince Talleyrand has re-
quested and obtained tho same permission. and that
he 11.. s already commissioned a mercantile house at
Vienna to hire a house for him in that city..

SPAIN.—The Infant Don Carlos has embroidered
for his mother a girdle, enriched with diamonds, va-
lued at 60,000 piastres, and in. which the bkill ul hand
of the King is said to have taken a part.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

TUESDAY. APRIL 9, 1816.
PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY ATI WiLVE O'CLOCKI
Reduced 5914—Cons. mo. 00H—for aec. 6 i fl
4 per Cent. 74-I—S per Cent. 90—Boads .Is. 4s. pr.
Onin. pay. -r. —Each. Bilb par, 4s. pr.

We have received the Paris Papers of Friday and
S.lturd.ty. The Chamber of Peers having rejected,
or rather inde&nitely postponed the discussion on the
Law, of Elections, it became necessary fur the KING
to interpose his authority, in the mean time, to sanc-
tion the elections which have already taken place in
the forms prescribed by former Royal Decrees.--
This has been done in a short Decree presented to
the Chamber of Deputies on Friday by Count VAU•
BLA NC. The measure was well received. The De.
puties are still occupied with the Budget : the branch
of iudiitct Taxes is now under discussion.

COURIER EXTRAORDINARY OF FRIDAY MORNING.

Apartments are preparing in the Palais Royal for
the Duke of Orleans, who is expected to return from
England about the end of this month.

General Drown will be tried to-morrow. From
the few witnesses and documents to be adduced, it is
tot expected that the trial will last more than a day.
One of the villains who robbed M. Thorillon, and
who was wounded by a pistol-ball, died on Thurs-
day evening ia the hospital whither he had been con-
veyed on a shutter from his mothew's house, who is a
washerwoman at Gros-Caillou. It is said that he
has served in the corps of blimelukes.

The trial respecting Lamalette's -escape will-come
on about the 18th or 21schtstAnt.

In Switzerland it has been decided, that all per-
sons banished 'lately from France, for the mainte.
nance of the public trangsiality, shall be treated ac-
fiord's% to the muse principles, and in the same nun-

no-. as was formerly decided respecting die indivi-
duals &sign AO in the Ordonnance of the 24th July
'COURIER EXTRAORDINARY OX SATIIRDAY NAMING.
The Duke t,f Luxemburg, Ambassador, from the.
King to the Court of the Brazils, arrived on the 29th
of March at Brest. On the 90th his Excellency went
on board the frigate which is to convey him, and he
was expected to sail forthwith.

A German Journal states, that a eQebrated French
diplomatist is expected at Vienna.

Visiount Bruges, Lieutenant General and Aide-
de-Camp to Monbieur Count of Artois, arrived at
Berlin on the 26th March. He is supposed to be
cha►ged with a diplom•itic mission.

Some changes have 'taken place in the 'Russian
Ministry. Varip,us personages are mentioned as about
to be employed as Ambassadors.

The sale of the large trees in various Communes,
called Trees of Liberty, for the benefit of the poor,
has commenced in the departm.nt of the Creuse.

Miss Garnerin's balloon fell on the 24th of March
last, at six o'clock in the evening, is the Commune
of Roadie stir Lair, in the arrondissement of St.
Calais. It has thus traversed a distance of about 36
league• in a straight line in three hours.