Star.
London, England, 1817-05-01 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

1--)114E OF LORDS, APRIL so.

Ananias were isresented from the Treasury and Directors of
the East Iva Company. ane laid on the Table.
Leith hinAl UTles CIRCULAR LAT/TR.

Earl GREY stated, that he intended on Tuesday
DM to move for the case laid hefOre the Law-Offi-
cers of the Crown, upon which the opinion • already
befrwc the House had been given, when he would
ottbak some observations: for their consideration on
gbf. mint important subject. In the opinion of the
Lair Officers of the Crown, there was a reference to,
an pirion given by their predecessors, in 1801, in
the cases of Thomas Spence and Alexander Hogg;
and as he trusted there would be no obection to the
production of that document, he would now move
for it. The subjectwas one of as great magnitude
and importance as any that ever was brought under
their Lordships' consideration ; and it was of the
Fghest consequence that every possible information
respecting it should be produced. The doctrines
now promulgated in the circular letter of the Secre-
tary of State, upon the authority of the Law-Officers
of the Crown, certainly involved a most important
novelty in the practice of the Constitution, tied a
violation of the law, according to the best opinions.
He would, however, say clothing farther on the sub-
ject at present, but move for the opinion given by
the Law-Officers of the Crown in 1801, referred to
in the opinion now laid on the Table.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL hzd not sufficient
official knowledge to enable him to say whether there
was any such opinion in the Office. It might turn
out; that the Law-Officers, in ISOI, had acted upon
their own opinion, on the subject iu the cases ot,
Spence and Hogg ; and that there was no opinion
epon a case laid before them by the. Secretary of
Scale. He hoped, therefore, the Noble Earl would
postpone the motion till the proper inquiries should
be made, in order to ascertain whether there was any
such opinion in the Office.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was not at present
acquainted with the cases referred to; but if the
Noble Ix nil would postpone his motion, he would
take vire to inform himself.

Earl GREY agreed to postpone the motion till
Friday or Monday, expressing his doubt whether the
cases referred to would be found to bear at all upon
the stbject of holdi►►g to bail by Justices of the Peace,
on account of such alleged offences as those stated in
the circular letter. Adjourned.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The second reading of the Colliers' Wages Bill was postponed
WI 4&s day m'oraght.
Mr. H. SUMNER moved the second reading of the Christ..
Church Parish Improvement Dill, which was ordered to be com-
mimed on Monday next.
Mr. S. THORN TON presented a Petition signed by many
.Housekeepers of the Parish of Christ-Church, in favour of the
Bill for enlarging the Burial Ground of that Parish. Ordered to
be on the Table.
Another Petition was also received, praying to be heard by
VallMel against certain parts of the same Bit.
Cokael WOOD rave notice that be should move on Wed.
"sudsy the 7th of May, the second reading of the Bito legalise
the Sate of dame.
Sir S. ROMILLY moved that the Paper yesterday presented,
eying a flit.. rn of the number of Perms moaned fur offences
egaip.t the Chine Laws in England and Wales. be printed.
Mr. IHA W LEI'EV IkE presented a Petition from Reading,
In favour of acme measure for the better regulation of Stage-
Coaches, en I seeming the lives of his Majesty's subjects. Or-
dered to lie on the Table.
The Copper Tokens Bill was read a seco r acne, and ordered
to be committed to-morrow se'nuight.
Mr. t OKE moved for an Account of the number of Busbelej
of Malt made lima Jana try, lel e, to January, 1617, in England
and Wales.
Mr. lAMB lON presented a Pension from the Parish OM-
acre of aunderiand, preying for some ateration in the Poor.
Laws_, and stating, that act a Population not exceeding 16,000 in
that Parish. 8,000 were Paupers, and that the Rates amounted
Inmany butanes.* so ices. and in some talkie. in the Pomade--
The Petition was read, and ordered to be upon the Table.
Lord MILTON presented a Pettlion from several Parishes in
the West Riding of the County of York in favour of a Reform
in Parliament ; and another from the Town of Kekarldge on
the subject of the Poor-Laws, which were severally received.
Sir RODER!' HERON presented a Petition from the Town
at Great Grimsby, praying for a. mere equal Representation of
the People in Parliament. Ordered to lie upon the Table.
CLERGY REGULATION SILL.
. Mr. MANNERS SUTTON remarked, that it
was perhaps unnecessary for hitt, to apologize to the
House for prefacing the motion which he was about
to submit to its attention with a few introductory ob-
servations. 'His object was to move for leave to
bring in a Dill to amend and consolidate the different
Acts for regulating the Residence of the Clergy. —..
s In the first plaice, he begged leave. shortly to state
what the course hitherto pursued by Parliament had
been toward the accomplishment of that end, viz.
the enforcement of residence on the benefices held by
spiritual persons.. The Act of Henry VIII. what-
ever bad been its merits originally, or its ultimate
ppctical inconvenience, remained in full force till the
43d of the present King. This Act, which was then
substituted for the former Statute, was prepared by
his Right Honourable and Learned Friend, the
Member for the-University of Oxford (SirW. Scott),
and gave certain powers to common informers, which
bad been perverted a few years ago into an intim-
mut of grievous injustice and oppression. To such
pall extent had the system of persecution been carried,
that Parliament felt itself bound to interfere by the
extraordinary step of enacting, that all the existing
prosecutions under the Statute should be suspend,
and the temporary Act of the 34th of the King was
passed. ‘. The clause by which it was made tempo-
rary, was not founded upon the consideration that
the evil also was of a temporary nature, but for the
purpose of affording a future opportunity of bringing
the whole subject an the form of some general and
digested measure before the attention of the House.
This was expedient, both for the defence of the
Clergy, and for the doe performance of their duties-
to the public. The Act of the 544 b was on the eve
of expiring, the consergbence of which would be the
seeltal; so all its parts, of the Act of the 43d, and
the exposere saf the Clergy to all those hardships and
Ineonventeneles from which it had been judged ne-
cessary to relieve them on a former occasion by a
very unusual proceeding. Assuming, therefore, that
it was not proper to leave the Law in its present
state, onto throw the beneficed Clergy headlong into
the grasp of common informers, be apprehended that
it was still advisable to recur to the general principle
and leading provisions of the 43d of the King.—
Many of its enactments were excellent, and the
country at large was under the highest obligation: to
his Right Honourable and Learned Friend for the
success' with, which -he had executed a stupendous

endertakiog. The measure which he was proposing
to introduce fell very far short indeed of the labour
employed in the preparation of that Act, which was
the production of deep research, and of distinguished
talents. Its author had undoubtedly been assisted in
the execution of the task by possessing the entire
confidence of that House, of the Clergy, and the
Public ; and thirteen years' experience of its benefi-
cial effects had :hewn that this confidence bad not
been misplaced. All the real inconvenience had
arisen, not out of the Act itself, but of an extrava-
gant hose of the powers rested by it for a necessary
purpose in the common informer. He considered
that, by checking the liability to the repetition of that
abuse, he should be furthering the end of the Act it-
self, and carrying into effect she intentions of the
Legislature--(Heer, hear). If be could flatter him-
self that he bad now laid a foundation for the adop-
tion of some new proceeding, it appeared to him that
there were in this view but two courses to be pur-
sued—either to revise the temporary Act of the 54th
of the King, or to pass the Bill which it was his
desire to introduce. The first was open to all the
objections that applied to temporary laws ; and if,
upon the general principle, such a system was deem-
ed vicious, it was calculated in this instance to pro-
duce particular disadvantages. It left the minds of
the great body of the Clergy, who were men of
retired habits, and living at a distance from the Ca-
pital, in an unsettled understanding of the existing
Law, and under constant apprehensions that every
Session of Parliament would bring some new altera-
tion. This change and uncertainty tended likewise
to cast odium on their character, and create preju-
dices in the public mind, from the opinion that new
Laws were perpetually required to coerce the Clergy,
as if they were less zealous in the discharge of their
duties, less correct in their habits, and, in one word,
less professional than they were formerly. Although
in his conscience he believed the fact to be directly
the reverse, yet, when once this impression was re-
ceived, it opened a wide door to slandtr, and led to
a disposition in many to hold up some particul.tr in-
dividual as a fair example of the whole body. He
hoped, therefore, that his Bill would at least be exa-
mined and discussed, before the House resolved again
to have recourse to a temporal); enactment; con-
ceiving, as he did, that, it possible, such a measure
ought to be avoided. The Bill had been prepared
in a quarter which must necessarily possess the re-
spect and confidence of the Clergy; he meant, that
it had been framed by the Bench of Bishops, and he
need hardly add, with that care and industry which
might be expected from their stations, their responsi-
bility, and, a 3 he should say, from their peculiar fit-
ness for the undertaking. It contained not any new
code of laws, although its object was not confined
simply to the enforcement of residence, but extended
also so far to the regulation of Clunks as to em-
body in one Act all the statutory penalties affecting
either the beneficed or the stipendiary Clergy.—
The Act of Anne, for regulating the stipends co'
Curates, had been amended by the Mb of the King,
which had been since amended in all its parts by the
Act of the .53i. All the provisions of this latter
statute were substantially intrad,uced into his 0111 for
thE convenience of bringing the two subjects toge-
ther, and not for the purpose of legislating anew re.
specting them. He hoped he had now said enough
to shew the general spirit of the combined measure
he had in contemplation. Its great principle was,
as far as possible, to promote residence. So long,
however, as pluralities continued, and men were sub-
ject to sickness or infirmity, some exceptions ranit
be allowed; and one of the regulations of the Bill
provided in such cases, that an absence thus occa-
sioned should be supplied by a licensed curate, with
a remuneration adequate to the labours be performed,
and the responsibility he incurred+ There were also
wine additional regulations with regard to the occu-
pation of fat ms by the clergy, the law of which had
remained in its present inconvenient state since the
Revolution. Upon the whole, he trusted that, Whilst
the measure would effectually secure the clergy fro*
oppression, it would, at the same time, provide for
the just rights and interests of the public, and that
it would appear especially, that whatever could tend
to lower or degrade the character of the former had
been studiously avoided. If he should obtain leave
to bring in the Bill, it was his intention to move that
it be read a first and second time, for the purpose of
then leaving the blanks open, pad printing it for the
use of Members, till a day should be appointed for
taking it into consideration. Pte believed there would
be no objection to this proceeding, sad should there-
fore now move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend
and consolidate the Acts with respect to spiritual
persons holding farms, for enforcing the residence of
spiritual persons on their benefices, and for the sup-
port and maintenance of stipendiary curates (truer.)
General THORNTON signified his assent to the
motion, but trusted that the laity were still to retain
the power of interfering in the discipline of the church,
whenever it should appear to be neglected.
Mr. BABINGTON wished to know, as the sub-
ject was of great importance, what were the princi-
pal amendments of the existing law which the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman intended to submit?
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON felt some difficulty in
at once answering the question of the Honourable
Gentleman, as the alterations were of a nature to be
best understood when examined in the Bill itself.
With regard to the 53d of the King, the clauses pro-
viding for the support of stipendiary curates were
differently arranged, but the principle remained sub-
stantially the same.
Mr. BROUGHAM did not desire that the Ho-
nourable Gentleman should go through all the clauses
an detail ; but if there were any prominent features
of difference more substantial than the rest, it would
be convenient if they were communicated to the
House, as it was proposed that the Bill should pass
through two stages without discussion. That would
be a very proper proceeding, if she measure was one
rather of consolidation than amendment; otherwise,
some previous explanation appeared to him necessary.
Mr. MANNERS SUTI ON replied, that the Bill
would follow the course pointed out by the Act of
the 4Sd of the King, and conclude by re-coactiag
the provisions of the Act of the 58d, with regard to
the allowances to creates; Mid as to the subject of
farming.. would allow the clergy to take a farm to
the extent of twenty acres, with license front the Bi-
shop, not merely with a view to the Sustenance of
their families. but of enabling them to add to the
convenience of their glebe Lauds The repletion
•

for enforcing residence had been abused by the
former, not upon their substance, but their tatter;
and with a view of remedying any intermediate in-
convenience, the Bill would provide for suspending
all prosecutions for six months farther, after the ex-
piration of the Act of the 54th. For the purpose of
guarding against any possible trap which might be
tett open, the ecclesiastical year was made to begin
on the Ist of January, and end on the 91st of Dc.
cember ; and it was enacted, that all licenses for non-
residence should in future be limited to two years,
always ending on the Slat of December. By this
means, the Bishops, being always aware of the ex-
piration of these licenses, would enjoy a security
which it was not easy for them to possess, whilst every
separate license had a particular duration. On the
stipendiary clergy, the alterations consisted in little
more than in what might be called a dislocation of
the clauses in the former Act.

Lord EBRINGTON observed, that the expecta-
tion of this measure had excited much apprehension
in the Clergy generally, as it was believed that it
contained some regulation for enlarging the power of
the Bishops, at the expense of the Parochial Clergy.
This was one reason for not pressing the Bill over
two stages without inquiry. He wished to know
whether there was any clause enabling the Bishop to
appoint a Curate, wherever he thought the duty was
not adequately performed by the Incumbent.—(Hear,
and sheering/iota Mr. Brougham.)
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON said, there certainly
was a clause of that description. He knew not what
the cheer of the Hoiourable and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. Brougham) was intended to convey, but the
clause conlared no new power whatever, but merely
provided a aht.rter process of executing what was
already law.
Mr. BROUGHAM meant not to impute to the
last Speaker any wilful suppression of what the Bill
contained, by his cheer; but was glad to have it un-
derstood by the House, that such an alteration in
the law had been in the contemplation of the framers
•,1 the Act.

The B:11 was then brought in, read a first time,
and ordered to be read a second time on Friday se'n-
night. On the Motion of Mr. M. SurraN, it was
also ordered to be printed.
Mr. GRATTAN was abont to present a Petition
from aggrieved individuals in Ireland, but upon the
suggestion of the Speaker that it sought pecuniary
compensation, he consented to withdraw it.
Mr. C. CA I.VERT moved far leave to bring in a
Bill to amend the 39th and 40th of the King, to pre-
vent fraudulent practices in the sale of hops. He
observed, that out of 285 instances in which hops
had been used, thcre were 249 in which fraudulent
practices had been detected.-- (Thar, hear,luar). •
Leave was then granted, and the Bill was brought
in and read a first time, and ordered to be read a se-
cond time on this day fortnight, and to be printed.