Star.
London, England, 1819-12-24 00:00:00

BLASPHEMOUS LIBEL BILL.

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Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the Order of the
Day for the House resolving itself into a Committee
on the Blasphemous Libel
Mr. BERNAL said, he felt it his duty to protest
against the principle and clatkses of the Bill. He
considered it one of the most obnoxious and danger-
ous measures that had ever been proposed in that
House, where the greatest efforts were made to hurry
it into a law. Though he objected to the Bill alto-
gether, yet the clause or banishment was so peculiarly
objectionable, that he could not avoid making a few
observations on it. For the space of-200 years ba•
nishment was not known as part of the common law,
and it had been taken notice of by Parliament only
in one solitary instance. Ile had, indeed, heard that
old punishment, called abjuration of the realm, spoken
of as being the same as what was meant by the word
banishment in the Bill. He thought it necessary,
therefore, to state to the House what that abjuration
ivas—when a felon, escaping from justice betook
himself to sanctuary, if in 40 days he appeared be-
fore the Coroner, or other proper authority, and con-
fessed the offence, he was allowed to abjure the realm
—and it was to be noticed, that such abjuration had,
as its inevitable consequences, an attainder of blood
and forfeiture of goods and Chattels. But that doc-
trine was found to be so productive of various mis-
chief, and became at last so onerous to the country,
that it was abolished at length by the 21st James the
First. There was, indeed, another Act, the 39th of
Elizabeth, which recognized the punishment of exile,
but that was enacted when an abatement of the great
spirit of enterprize, which had employed so many
adventurous persons, threw them upon society, and
thereby cleated a number of felons exceedingly dan-
gerous front their activity and desperation. The law
which was passed in consequence, applied only to
felonious characters, and it enacted that persons of
that class, who had been committed to a Houye of
Correction, and found incorrigible, should be banishtd
at the public expense, or sent to work in the gallies,
and thence he believed, was the origin of transporta-
tion. A similar Act was passed in the reign of
Charles the Second, which also applied only to felo-
nious persons, of whom a' great number then infested
the Counties of Cumberland and Westmoreland.—
But the Act on which the supporters of the Bill laid
great stress, was that of the 36th of the King, which
had been passed in the year 1795. But although
that Act was passed at a very awful period, and
intended for defeating SKr designs of high state de-
linquentl;. "Ariz was to be recollected, that it was
limited in duration to three years, and the sentence
of banishment not discretionary, but confined to seven
years. The Hon. Member then said, that the con•
sequences of banishment formed a most important,
consideration. The law recognized two kinds of
death, the one civil, the other natural. Whenever
the penalty of banishment had been at any former
time inflicted, the consequence was civil death.-1
The Law Officers of the Crown were therefore plung-
ing us in great difficUlties, and he begged to know if
they were prepared to say, whether a man banished
under the law, was thereby dissolved from his Ale-.
giance, as well as put out of the reciprocal duty of
the probation of his Sovereign? and whether his
children were to be recognized as natives of the Bri-
tish soil ? Another important consideration was, at
whose expense the sentence of banishment was to be
executed. It might be easy for a man in flourishing
'rcumstances, to banish himself, but that could not
the power of a poor man, or one who was re-
to poverty by then legal proceedings taken
him—and supposing the country in a belli-
state, on what shore was he to set his fOtit, or
was the unprotpcted exile to
.find a resting
'—(Hear, hear).—He then observed upon the

natural aversion which a British Jury bad to convict
upon statutes of overstrained•
severity. In 'such a
case, the victim was often 'rescued from the cruel op-
pression of the law by a Sort of pious fraud, and thus
the inhuman hardship of the h&w defeated its own
intention—besides, a man convicted for seditious
libel was very differently circumitanced, in a moral
poiat.of view, from other criminals, and should be so
regarded by the law. What was looked on as a sedi-
tious libel one day, was laughed at as an amusing
squib another. He concluded by requesting the
Crown Lawyers 'to remove the difficulties in which
the consideration of the Bill was 'lnvolved.
Mr. DENMAN objected to the Bill ; after some
prefatory observations as to the great powers with
which the Law Officers of the Crown were already
invested against the Press, and the cautious and mo- '
derate manner in which they found it right to exer-
cise them, he proceeded to say, that if any one had
told him, a few years since, that his Honourable and
Learned Friends, the Attorney and Solicitor-General,
were to be made the instruments for introducing
such a Bill into the House of Commons, he vowed
to GOD that he would be inclined to insult the man
who had told him so, and would treat his assertion
as a false and groundless accusation. . He then ob-
served, that the acquittal of Hone formed no argu-
ment to support the necessity of suds an enactment;
and complimented his Hon. and Learned Friend
beside him (Sir James Mackintosh) on the brilliant
and convincing. speech which he had made on the
measure then before the House on the preceding
night. As to himself, he said, that if he could not
excite a feeling for the endangered liberties 'of his
country, he would at least have the satisfaction of
recording his own. He did not wish to indulge in
any common-place declamation respecting the Press,
though he was not inclined to undervalue that decla-
mation, as it was the tribute of the common convic-
tion of Englishmen to a principle, which was, as it
were a part of their country. It was the proverbial
wisdom of society, the vulgar acknowledged its
power, and the educated revered it ; but it appeared
that Ministers had been enlightened by a period of
alarm, and had been instructed by it to treat that
great principle differently from the manner in which
it had been treated for some preceding ages. From
reign to reign concessions had been made, but now
the worst coercive restriction's were to render them
nugatory, and the presumption of offence was to be
acted upon against all in the service of the Press in
this great literary country. The eloquence which
had been often brought to bear upon this subject,
had not originated with idle and frothy declaimers,
but had come from the most venerated sages of the
law, and the most enlightened philosophers. But
now it was said that times were altered, and a man
who was at all connected Kith the Press, was ren-,
dered liable to banishment for a technical crime.—
The present law went to establi.sh a rew jurisdiction;
and to alter the character of the Judges of th'e land,
and he was sure That if these learned and upright
Judges cculd refuse obedience to an Act of Parlia-
ment, they would reject the invidious discretion now
about to be conferred upon them with indignation.
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman then stated'
some instances of hardship which had taken place
under the law of libel on a former occasion, when
the late Mr. Johnson, (of St. Paul's Church-yard),
was imprisoned six months for publishing Wake-
field's Answer to the Work of the late Bishop of
Landaff; and also Mr. Cuthel, (of. Holborn), who
had published the same book among the clissical
works of Mr. Wakefield—( Hear, hear, hear).--
Under the present Bill, these persons would be liable
to be banished for life. Such an arbitrary punish-
ment ought not to be given to any Court, nor ought
it to be tolerated. He was sure such a power would
have the worst effect upon the bookselling trade of
England. It would-be found cheaper to import
cargoes of libels, or what might be construed into
libels, than to manufacture them here. There was
at present a sarcastic Poem circulating in London,
which no bookseller here would print, and which
came from the Paris Press, though understood to be
by a Noble. English Author; but he supposed the
Ministers would have, in the Continental Statesmen, a
sort of fellow-constables to look after the Press, and
a holy brotherhood in bonds of amity, suppressing
every thing that could tend to the improvement of
the human mind. The Honourable and Learned
Gentleman then animadverted strongly on the right
of searching private houses for libels, and argued,
that it; on information given of a concealed libel, a
man's house was to be searched and his papers ran-
sacked, a most cruel act of oppression would be
committed ; and if, on the other hand, the person in-
formed against were allowed to sliew cause, the libel
could be in the mean time removed, and the end of
the clause defeated ; so that it was either useless, or
most unjust and reprehensible. It appeared to him,
that when the 36th of the King-was said to be adopt-
ed as a precedent, that the words " maliciously and
advisedly," which were inserted in that Act, should
also be adopted in the pre:enc. The Bill now before
the House was objectiorable in another point of
view—namely, because it would have an ex postfacto
operation. The operation of the Bill embraced any
person who should be convicted, and this might re-
fer to a crime which had been committed a full year
ago, as, well as to one which might he committed
alter the passing of the Bill. He must say, that he
felt this case very strongly, and he hoped he should
be excused for taking up so much of the time of the
House upon it. He never could consent to adopt
any terms, in the argument upon it, which could tend
to lower the tone of that House with regard to the
Liberty of the Press. The Press he looked upon as
the best and happiest safeguard of the Constitution.
It would be found its strongest defence in every dan-
ger—" Secanadas res'orwat, us adverse* rebate per/y-
-earn et sob:times itrarbet." He felt the more deter-
mined in these principles, because if the tone of the
House and the Public were lowered, the effect would
be, instead of having the shackles which were threat-
ened, as light as possible, and as temporary as the
occasion that required them, it would tend only to
make them perpetual—(Neer).
Mr. It. MARTIN thought it was a *atter of no
consideration whether the punishment of banishment
was enacted before or not; the only cooaideration to
be looked to was, whether such a punishment was
adequate or not to put an end to tie
ascriibeme
:thletuwaight
their duty to fix upon it such a
it deserved. After all those laws should, be passed,
the Liberty of the Press would, he contended, re.

• ai
passed. if the . question were debated on its own
main as perfectly *intact, as they bad never been'
merits, without any regard to party feelings, there
was not a man in the House who would not approve
of this measure. Taking the question upon its own
grounds, could any one doubt that the most atro-
cious injuries might not be done to persons and pto-
perty, by the circulation of libellous hand-bills?
He remembered a banker that was not long since in
very prosperous circumstances in Ireland', and that a
number of malicious and false hand-bills having been
circulated, stating that a run was made upon his
bankz—an actual rue was made in consequence, and.
the man was destroyed. He would put the case of
an Honouiable Alderman in London, who was famed
for making excellent patties—(A laugh). Suppose
hand-bills were sent out, stating that the worthy Al-
derman had his patties made up of the flesh of little
children I (A laugh). Gentlemen might laughr-but
it Was well known that such flesh was-whiter than
anfboiled chicken!—(Driud laughter). But suppose
such a rumour was spread abroad, as might be easily
done by means of hand-bills, what would be the con-
sequence to the Alderman ? 'Why, the devil a patty
he'd sell at all !—(Roars of laughter). In fact, there
was no man who might not be destroyed by such
noxious publications, and the only way to put an end
to them was to pass the present Bill.
Mr. BANKES thought that the abuses existing
were so alarming, that it was necessary to adopt mea-
sures strong enough to suppress them. The Honour-
able Member wept into the same line of argument
as.he had used upon a previous night, to chew that
there were restraints upon the Press, immedi-
ately after the 'Revolution, than those which were
now proposed. He believed it could not be denied
that disaffection prevailed in the Country to a consi-
derable extent ; but he had as little doubt, that the
majority of the People were uncorrupted by this dis-
contented spirit, and that they would feel obliged to
Parliament for passing these efficient measures. The
Honourable Member then went into an explanation
of a former speech, which was frequently alluded to'
in the debate last night. He denied that he hated
the diffusion of education amcng the People, and he
had hoped that his general character would have se-
cured him from such insinuations. He had merely
expressed his doubts upon the prudence of the ac-
tivity shewn bf certain Members of the House in
spreading education so extensively, with Out, at the
same time, taking equally active measures to pre-
vent the inconvenience which might arise from it.
If he was asked whether education was good ?—he
was ready to admit that no doubt couli be enter-
tained about it. But he did sincerely believe, that
it was not of advantage to propagate education to the
extent to which it was pushed by Members of that
House—(Hear, 'hear, hear). For the humanity and
benevolence of those Members he had the highest
respect, but he hoped he should not be looked upon
as a marked person, because he had expressed opi-
nions which he held most conscientiously—(Hear).
Mr. J. P. GRANT denied that it was asserted on
his side of de House that the Honourable Gentle-
man who had just sat down had delivered any opi-
nion against the diffusion of religion and education
in the country. For his part, he merely understood
the Honourable Gentleman as expressing some
'doubts as to the moral consequence of so great an
extension of education as now prevailed. But what-
ever opinion he, or any other Member, entertained
upon the subject of education, it was now too late
to endeavour to stop it. As to the question before,
the House, he thought it singular that they should
be now called upon to go into a Committee upon a
Bill for which no case of necessity had yet been
made out. It was also very extraordinary that nei-
ther the Attorney nor Solicitor-General had stated
all the legal consequences of the punishment of ba-
nishment for lift—a punishment which was now
enacted for the first time in this country. Some sup-
posed that it amounted to civil death ; and for his
part he should, ike to know, whether it was under-
stood that this punishment should or should not be
assimilated to the old abjuration of the country? He
'did not hope that any thing he should say would
have the slightest effect upon the vote of the House,
but this he should say, that they were at present in
a state very unfit for permanent legislation--(Hear,
hear).—He was quite ready to agree to this, and to
the other measures, irovided they were of a tempo-
rary nature. And he should go thus far,
.not from
any alarm which he himself felt, but from deference
o
to those feelings of alarm which were entertained b
her.y
a s Ins i
nSgcoutllaainl
yd
greapartirc.ulairnly,rdthienbaluarg, alarm
prev
intg w sfor
in-
stance, so great was the alarm, that the Lord Presi-
dent of the Court of Session thought it necessary
to take upon himself the military command of the
Castle; and it was a fact, that that learned person,
whose character was entirely civil, marched a guard
to the Castle every morning, and marched it hack
again in the evening—(Hear, hear)o—He and his
friends would not object to any measures for securing
the peace of the country, provided they were not
intended to be permanent.
Lord BINNING replied to several of
the points
nrged by the last speaker. He contended that there
was a real ground for alarm in Scotland, where every
thing lately indicited an insurrection on the part of
the disaffected, which made it necessary to withdraw',
the troops from Edinburgh, and obliged the most re-
spectable inhabitants of that city and Glasgow, to
take up arms in defence of their families and h.
property. There was no idle panic in Scotland, but
a real ground for alarm, occasioned by the blasphe
nious and seditious Press, which it was the object
the present Bill to put down.
Mr. BIRCH began by noticing
11:01DO comments
contained in a Nottingham Paper attached to the Go-
.vernment, upon his conduct in Parliament; but he
was called to order by the SpeaUr. He then etaiedi
that the Paper in question had charged bid
Birch} with wilfully withholding inforniatioi
the House, relative to training and arming m • that
part of the country. Since then, the Editor of that
Paper had contradicted the statement neo4 q
and therefore he should leave the House to drawl,
own inference on the subject.—The House tis-
jelved itself into a Committee on the
- Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH 5.7
Amendments to propose
elated it would be
ittiopt. He should.
“ Composing and'y
these words---.“

" l ardly knew under what description of ,
.class those that were called seditious libels,
not think they were defined in the Bill then
the House. • The language in the Bill '
was described, was so vague, confused, ,
factory, that he did not know whether it
nition of a seditious libel, or an enur
offences coming under that denomination.,
definition, it was an absurdity, consisting of
purporting to be distinct in their meaning
signifying the same thing; just as if
describe a triangle, and then say, ;T. a;
comprehended by three straight lines. if
guage in the Bill was an enumeration of
consisted of a profusion of unnecessary
which he could find nothing clear or Slti'
The next Amendment, then, which he s
was this, to leave out the words definin;,
,ous libel to be a publication tending to
Government into hatred or contempt, or
the constitution of either House of
and to add these words—" or any libel ,
excite the subjects of this realm to any act
done, would by law amount to felony;
The object of his Amendment was, to
operation of the Bill to such blasphemot
tious libels as should tend to excite people
he had just described ; or should hold fir,_
trines that the King and the Parliament had ,
power to make laws for the country. He sherd
state the grounds for proposing these
It had been •admitted, by all parties in that
that the respectable part ofahe Press ought
parated from that part which was wicked atxl
graceful—from that abominable part of
which no man execrated more than himself.
lowed, therefore, that the House should
principle—that the measures intended to died
punish the one, should not oppress or s'
other. His object, then, w* to put to the- test
declarations that had been made in that
lative to the distinction that ought to be
Ilekween the execrable part of the Press,
wirich was allowed, on all hands, to be
In considering the necessity of the present
it was proper clearly to understand what
complained of really was. The evil did
merely in political libels, for there was no
which there was less of such species of
there was no period when the general
free from libels of that description, or so ,
so meritorious. But, on the other hand,
a species of publications which ought -
under the description of a public Press,
tailed the most atrocious excitements
pillage, and rebellion !—(Cries of Hear
On one side, there was a Press condi'
utmost propriety, decorum, and with
to the Laws and Constitution of the
the other side, there was a clandestir
ing forth publications of the most '
and instigating men to commit the
acts—instigating men to the commissiol
murder, and treason. His object then
fine the new law to the new mischief '
up in the country, to this new class of
to have the old law just as it stood belt
be applicable, as it formerly was, to
'from inadvertence, or the fervour of
The offence comprehended under the
tious Libel" was most undefined and
because many words which at one
perfectly innocent, were at another
into libels, and men were often punished
ing a statement which was not °ill,
meritorious. Nothing could be ay
unskilfulness in legislation, than this
ratter of a libel, which ought to be so
defined, that a Jury possessing comr
common honesty should know how
minds upon it. The framers of the
far from attending to any thing like
libel, threw their enumeration of offences
'cumbrous parenthesis. They excluded -
the particular enumeration Of those- r
were most detestable, and deserving
nishment, and had not said a word about
lications that contained excitements
assasfination. Indeed, it was impossil
a clause more faulty than that which
in the Bill. It contained what ought ,
and it omitted what it ought to contain.
however, seem to him possible to distinf
the two different classes of libels to
hided ; and if that were done, the efficac'
would be better promoted, men whose
grant would be duly punished, and
would still remain with regard to polit.
ordinary libels of slight criminality were
confounded with such atrocious libels
which he alluded, the effect would be
horror which men must naturally
crimes recommended by the latter species
and would-confound men's judgments a'
and wrong. It would degrade respectal
by placing them in the same liabili;
flan whose writings should recomt
atrocious crimes, and it lowered the
Press altogether. Was there no distinction
between the innocent tradesman in
publication was sold, and the wretch
abominable writings, with a view of causing
atrocious crimes to be committed ? -
it to the Committee, whether this
stood, was not a re-enactment of the
sion in which the law of libel had al,
volved ? This Bill went deliberately '
innocent with the guilty—or rather
confusion which already existed. It ,
a degree of unjust severity, that a woman
miles off, and receiving an annuity -
Journal, was liable No be prosecuted
published
ia in that Journal, of which .
completely ignorant. A new law,
define libels, and to fix the crime and r`
to those upon whom they ought justly
loudly called for by every principle
no law ever passed which would be ,
with more cordiality than such a
But the . Bill, se far . hens defining the
'merit, to the innocent and the FeiltP
-t its object; for while the sevetztyrra
not be possible to find Juriea to cos'
great deal weald be wined if thi
be broaght to bear on criminals only
would be gained• by that precision

h.' .• 1 t
ri, 7'!l• • wnuse ex
executed,
t :
I'
11 circumst:
,
be in the
Is duced u
against 1
. .
1 P • gerent st
- eK where w.
place 7
.1
1 ' 1
i .

a Cominittee on the Bell. Bat the present
lACILINTOSH said, lie had _soak extended its sear
propose •to this Bill, which he con- and.would defeat i
be most material for the HOW* tO- so groat, it would
ad PTPoss. that before the. wordsionct t whereas a
rpunniug," there *4l be ittoercea severity should be
maliciamly sad advisedly." lir and still more wo

ion of oiT
e
, ; y
st Bill then nob
Bill hyse
'used, and the
!they it was
numeration P(.)
'nes'
i nat ion. Bit
nisisting of ty
son u
Itzc
e s am
iehi
°i3:i-fmsineernaglens asSi
satisfy
rabePnelf.:ttogYliluris
off. inW
ld
l
the mil
d
cot
!min, or to
het)vc
e of Par',
y libel tend:, 111
lon yornu ~ 0
c.
any act %chi
s, to colifint irti
ihemous and
people to the en
told forth the ,
.rd
tment had not S
y. He should ,
se Araendtn
es in that Ho m
ess ought to be ,iri
s wicked and
part
,of the 120
n himself. It sys
should adopt et
ided to check g
s or degrade
out to the test
in that House, •
it to be ob .
e
lerlevt oi Press,
dide,rn
n what
re
sent
Press
es andt t bc
l
prlda''ces.s
was no period
ies of libel di
or so correct
r hand, there
aght not tor
?ress,
nents to nt.: .e
Wear, hear, .. 1
Inducted with
vith a duet
he Country.. ,t,
stine Press, -
;t horrible nat.,
most aboti,
tission of rob• n:
then was, to c ac
of that had gr
of offences; . ,
before, so ts.bl
to errors
r of partisiii
the term "
and undefinabl. •
e time might
er time constru.
ished for publi
nly.innucent,
rgriater proof
its undefined c,
so described
mmon seine ,
to make up t. •
te present Pill,
a a defiiiition •
offences into
tiled from the ; •
re- offences uhi.
its
tcaushsb 1:::tohut thoseloeeseptavoiule P
ulartnegedseatd•ti:..'
!isffisthtctonoincanguitcwlythn3iath.cohbetb;thhtewei 11.1
rl
a
lose guilt Was •
and the old is
p
obewbfleeeereiltsilctoal libels.
aansgoaabv.
y
.:thoseantsteto
species of li
meats as to rig.
,spectable wri •
ility with the
cnmend the en‘
:he dignity of '•
inction to be m
in whose shop
dr who sent fo
(causing the
? He would
is Bill, as it rA
he general coin-
always been
ly to *confound t
T OD confirm
It existed to
woman living -1
y out of a AI,"
ed for sometbs
ch she must ha
law, therefore,
rd the punish
itly to attach,
e of justice; an
carried into e;
a law as this.
lefiaina the low

should distinrsish between the erimi-
litious, and the res?ectable part of the Press.
then was, to make the law efficacious for
Tression of the horrid evils which arose out
infamous part of the Press. The whole of
,itical part of the Pres; now rested in, and was
Tally confined to the Newspapers. In these a
lete revolution had taken place within the last
years; and in that period their importance had
-4 in a most astonishing degree. The persons
mg the daily Press had, within that time,
a great degree of authority over public
Being a source of great emolument, they
jrl drew to them men of property, as well as
t, Parliament, therefore, had the power of
kg these conductors of the Press their friends.
ght make enemies of them ; but could not de-
them. Men of the first talents were engaged
lucting the Press, and it remained to determine
they should be made the auxiliaries or the
,of the Government. The circumstances
tlidrew men of talent and liberal education to
'induct of the Press, produced a constant im-
it in Public Journals. During the last
years he had witnessed the progress of this
cement ; he had witnessed an improvement in
an improvement in political thinking, and in
ity. He knew one case exactly in point. It
rat of the conductor of a Public Journal, who
glowed that profession for the last forty years,
tore of whose occupation made it necessary for
rays to write in a hurry, who wrote in the
of party, who was continually exercising a
almost despotic over the feelings of his readers,
As himself invisible, and who, by evading the
might have wounded the feelings of numbers.
in individual, possessing such power, and hav-
itch temptations, was never charged with wound-
. feelings of any body, never was prosec ted
;rate slander, nor ever convicted of a public
nring the space of forty years, that he had
',aged in-the conduct of a Public Journal.—
Act put it to Gentlemen, whether they be-
, that men in any other part of Europe would
passed through so trying a period as that Gen-
, had passed through, with such freedom from
!, and such unsullied integrity ? He did not
:e to say, that the Gentleman to whom he al-
, was the Editor of The Morning Chronicle.
erely quoted him as an instance of that cor-
and that sense of honour which had grown
all, and had distinguished the Press of the pre-
day, and which it ought to be the policy of that
to cultivate and cherish. Such a conduct on
tart of the Parliansapt would be the most power-
ngine for conciliating the whole country. He
I on the House to consider the manner in which
rsons connected with the Press of London had
y conducted themselves towards those common
mies of mankind, against whom the enactments
the present Bill were directed. There never was
splendour and vigour of talent displayed on
occasion than that with which those men at-
al the enemy the House now contended against:
rr as the very safety of society was concerned, he
intained that civilized society never had more
advocates than those journalists ; and were those
-Able men to be thrown into the same scale
wretches who recommended the committing of
Ulage and murder? Were the best supporters of
lernment to be rewarded by being placed on the
level with its enemies? Were they, without
fault on their parts, to be rendered liable to most
and ignominious punishments? Were they to
cofounded with the most infamous miscreants in
tuntry ? He appealed then, not to the gene-
!, but to the prudence and policy of the House,
asked whether these men ought not to be treated
t kindness? That House could not change the
of society,. they could not arrest its progress;
course of human affairs proceeded from causes
were independent of legislation. The Press now
.i,ed a power which could not be taken away
d sa. That House might exasperate or conciliate
co-iluctors, and it remained to determine, which
wisest course to pursue. There was one pro-
, in the Bill before the House, which required
. all persons conducting Journals should enter into
recogaizances that they should not publish libels.
What, he asked, would be the consequence of thus
aiding men of honour and character with mis-
its and murderers? The consequence would be,
!rive from all Newspapers that character and pro-
-1 which were now best calculated to ensure the
cafe and proper conduct of Newspapers. This cha-
racter which belonged to the Press, was contrived
nature and by circumstances, which that House
curd not change,, but might drive away. The Bill
tow before the House would drive away men of great
ar,:ing, men of talent, men of property and cha-
7ter, from the conduct of the Press; Ad these
. always the best securities for its good conduct.
But mark what would be the consequence of this
change:--men of desperate ambition —fanatics in
litics, and without character, would have the con-
:t of the public Press—of that great instrument
in which the safety of society depended. If the
.ouse wished to contrive the most effectual means of
Putting the safety of society in danger, they could not
do so more effectually, nor could hey more effec-
tusily produce a general distrust of the laws, than
by enacting a clause that went to put the best men
in the country on a level with the worst. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman concluded with moving his
first Amendment, to insert the words " maliciously
and advisedly."
Mr. CANNING declared he never listened with
more pleasure to any man in that House, than he
now did to his Honourahle and Learned Friend, but
at the same time he could not agree with him in the',
emcirtsion he wished to draw from his reasoning.
1i there was any thing to be regretted in his elo-1
Tint speech, it was that part of it which alluded tol,
the power possessed by the Press of the country ; by
loch he laid a basis for his motion that was much
too wide for the object, and which certainly created
lonte alarm in his mind. The alterations, proposed
by his Learned Friend might be harmless, were it
hot for the warning voice with which they were re-
quired. lle wanted that House to surrender its judg-
ment to a certain unknown and invisible power, and
to make an alliance of homage to the daily Press—
( Hear,heer ).—lf he were called on to determine
either ,Nf these alternatives, whether the country was.
to be put to hazard, or be saved by the expedient of
-,4 li,onourable and Learned Friend—he must

tide on yielding nothing to fle tone of his intingds-
tion—(Hear, hear).—ale would go no farther than
thc definition just given of the power with which the
House was called on to form an alliance ; and he
would ask the House whether, after hearing of the
clouds and darkness in which that power was en-
veloped, and never knowing how soon its bolts
would dart down upon them, they must not conclude
that, instead of enjoying the freedom, they should
be suffering under the despotism of the Press ?-1
(Loud cries of Hear, hear).—He objected to many
kinds of despotism ; but he never would submit to a
despotism that was to act with the secrecy of a Vene-
tian tribunal, and to strike with the certainty of the
Inquisition. He was not disposed to differ generally
From his Learned Friend, in the character he gave
of the Press ; and he believed the individual con-
ductor alluded to deserved the character given of
him. But he would not say that the daily Press was
free from blame ; for he had very lately read in a
daily paper a quotation from a pamphlet which re-
commended assassination ; and the passage so quoted
was not accompanied by any condemnation. But
I whilst he was prepared to give the Press generally
due merit, he felt it necessary to state a few excep-
tions from the general panegyric, as a justification
of the opinion he held upon the motion of the Honour-
able and Learned Gentleman opposite. True, he had
confidence in the integrity of it ; but he would ask,
was it in such times as the present, in that condition,
as would take it out of the operation of the general
measures, which were deemed necessary to be re-
sorted to ?—(Hear).—ln legislating upon great ques-
tions, which affected the whole community, was Par-
liament to be directed from its straight forward course,
by an attention to individual interests? (Hear, hear)..
Did the Committee forget the peculiar circumstances
under which they were now acting? But with regard
to the position laid down by the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman, that when any new power was created or
discovered in the moral world, that then there was a
tendency to repress and tame it, he was at a loss
to see how far the argument upon that was intended
to be carried. One thing he would say, that when a
great explosion of nature took place, which was likely
to bury the country in ruins, it would be the more
prudent way, rather to fly from it, than throw our-
selves prostrate under it. The power and influence
of the fins, he contended, had been greatly magni-
fied. He was not prepared, indeed, to deny, that its
tone had increased tenfold in force, compared with
what it was, but to what cause was this to be attri-
buted ? Was it not to the facilities held out by the
Press, which was the organ of it? ( Hear).—He was
not one of those who saw this accumulation of force
with regret, or who would arrest its progress ; but
he never would consent to give up the right of legis-
lation in this House, nor concede any point of the
majesty of the law, to purchase conciliation with this
organ of public opinion—(Hear, hear).—It was true,
that too much solicitude for conviction often de-
stroyed the effects of punishment, and perhaps there
was some truth in the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's
observations upon the definition of crime, in the,
clause to which he objected. At the same time he
should strongly oppose the striking out the obnoxious
words in the clause ; kir there was a great deal of
difference in adding to the definitions of an offence
already stated, and striking out any words, for that
would be, pro tanto, making the Bill less operative to
a particular class of crime: Another objection occur-
red to him, as taken by the Hon. and Learned Gentle-
man, which was to the length of the definition.—upon
this he would say, that whatever ether good qualities
the Amendment might have, it certainly was riot cal-
culated from its conciseness,.to remove the objection.
Take it in any shape, in its length, whether mea-
sured by syllables or words, by weight or by mea-
sure, and he was persuaded it could not claim much
superiority as to shortness, in a competition with the
wording of the present clause—(A laugh). How-
1, ever, he was not indisposed to act upon the sugges-
tion of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, and
he had no objection, in order to make the Bill more
clear, to adopt his definitions added to those that
were already in. The definition he would shorten,
but never would he disgrace the Bill, by erasing the
very material words as proposed. He would ask the
Committee to look at these words? The motinnnow
was, to leave out the words, 4, any libel whatever, on
the Constitution, the person of the King, his succes-
sors, the Constitution or Government of the King-
dom, and both Houses of Parliament"—(Heer). Was
it proposed then to make this no offence? Why, it
appeared to him, from the reasoning of the Honour-
able Gentleman himself, that the Press should raise
its head against the omission. What ! leave unpro-
tected that Constitution, that sacred person of Ma-
jesty, and those rights of both Houses of Parliament,
which, in the words of the Honourable Gentleman,
those connected with the Press venerated so much?.
He was persuaded they did venerate them, but were
their rights so unimportant as to be left entirely to
their guardianship? Had Parliament no duty to dis-
charge ? or rather, had not every Member in that
House a severe responsibility upon him ?—(Hear).
—Perhaps, with the same dispositions, Parliament,
when compared with the Press, fell short when their
powers and faculties were measured. True, it had
sot all the advantages of mystery. There was no,
cloud to shut out the eyes of obtruders ;. all its acts
were public, and what was said at night was, in a.
few hours, capable of being conveyed to the farthest
corners of the Empire. Yet, with all these advan-,
cages, he would never conciliate the Press, but trust
to Parliament alone to preserve the Constitution—,
( Hear, hear). The Right Honourable Gentleman
concluded by saying, that he was inclined to adopt
the Amendment as far as it purported to extend the
operation of the Bill to offences, which it did not re-
cognize before—(Hear, hear).
Lord FOLKSTOUL denied that his Honourable
and Learned Friend Sad held out any threats from
the influence of the Press, which could call from the
Right ilonurable Gentleman opposite a display of
the sacrifices which- he would make in defence of the
liberties of that House. He was sure, if there was a
necessity for it, every one of his Honourable Friends
about him would say as much. It appeared to hula
that the only object of his Honourable and Learned
Friend's motion was to apportion the punishment,
and apply the punishment in the proper place. He
was sorry to see the use which bad been made of his
Learned Friend's Amendment, which, as the Bill
itself was proposed to be left untouched, would be
only adding to *the absurdities in it. The Noble Lord

'then made same remarks tipad some of the other
clauses in the Bill, particularly upon that authorizing
the search, and that which imposed banishment,
which, he contended, had not been sufficiently ex-
plained.
He would ask, what would be the situation
of a man who, to a foreign country, at war with
England, had been obliged by conscription laws to
fight, and had been taken prisoner—was he to be
hanged for high treason?—(Hear hear). This, he
contended, would be the case, unless his allegiance
waitut off, which Legal Gentlemen on the other side
had said was not contemplated by this Bill. There
was also another inconvenience, for it would happen
that a man might not be able to raise money enough
to leave the Country, and by staying, he subjected
himself to the penalty df death. Besides all these,
it would dispose the Press to favour foreign countries,
not knowing how soon they should be obliged to be-
come inhabitants of them. After all, he was of opi-
nion, that its great effect would be to check the pro-
gress of education, and the dissemination of useful
knowledge.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH replied. His object was
to recal the Committee to the importance of his mo-
dein, after the very able address of the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite had almost disposed them to for-
' get it. The Right Hon. Gentleman, however had a
considerable advantage over him, from the part
which he was to take, for the vivacity of invective
belonged to him who attacks, whilst to the defend-
ant nothing was left, but the dry sparks of reason.—
He could only wish, that it had been employed in a
better cause, for talents much inferior to his would
have been capable of rousing the dormant feelings of
a popular assembly, and stimulating pride, under
pretence of privilege, which was so easily acted
upon. However, he could not but observe that de-
clamation was the only answer, which the Right
Honourable Gentleman made to his arguments.—
He (Sir James) had taken a plain and straight
forward course. All the arguments which he
advanced, were grounded on the propositions, that
the evil was confined to one class of writers, who
alone, he contended, should be affected by the Bill.
In that, the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to con-
cur with him. Another class, he argued, should be
'exempted, and in that also, it seemed as if the Right
Hon. Gentleman was not disposed to differ from
him. Yet, after all this, the conclusion he would
have the Committee draw, was, that he was for sur-
rendering up the privileges of that House—(Hear).
,That was not his intention, he again repeated ; all he
proposed, was to avert from the meritorious man, a
measure which was not called for. He wished that
the distribution of punishment should be made here,
as justice demanded, and that those who were really
guilty should be the only objects of punishment.—
But he could not timely listen to a charge of being
indifferent to the privileges of that House. No man'
tould be a greater advocate for them : for, in truth,
he considered them a great part of the bulwarks of
our liberties. No man was more forward, when
there was a real necessity, or the apprehension of dan-
ger—if he should have the misfortune to see a sacri-
fice really required in their defence ; if he was des-
tined to see them fall he could say—
Iliad dneres, et gamma aureate meorom;
Teeter ta ee‘eati v canny, nee Was, nee ul4*
Vttavaie aims Damao ; et. si fate raiment
Ut caderem, atavism mans!. (irear,km).
He (Sir-Jame-.) thought, at the same time, it was a
measure of justice and policy to make some conces-
sions in favour of the innocent. At least, his argu-
ments, deserved an answer, and the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, before he launched into that splendid strain
of declamation, should have proved to thiCommit-
tee, that all classes of persons connected with the
Press were alike obnoxious to punishment—(Hear).
But the Right Hon. Gent. seemed to be in a state of
great alarm. He was at a loss to account for the
cause of it. There were many kinds of fear, but this
was the most unaccountable of all. He remembered
a saying of the late Master of the Rolls, upon an oc-
casion like the present, which would not be unseason-
able now to make use of. Sir W. Grant, in speaking
of fear, said, " I am an enemy to all kinds of fear,
but the most foolish of all is, that of being thought
afraid l"—(Hear).—The Learned Gentleman then
proceeded to explain the arguments upon which he
had founded his Amendment. He denied that he had
courted the daily Press, and that he ever intended to
hold it in terror over the House, with a view to in:
fluence its decisions. He had asserted that there
were distinctions to be made in the characters of the
persons connected with the Press, and it was impos-
iible for him to support his argument without it. No
reply had bean made to this by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman, in his impatience to reach the splendour of

gusi
" Desperat traetata aheseere posse, retiaquit."
He (Sir James) had endeavoured to spew, that con-
founding al in one tido was the surest way of making
the Bill inefficacious in its object. But he again de-
nied that he had talked of the influence of the Press
as an argument to overawe the House. If there were
any thing like personal fear, it would indeed be dis-
graceful to conciliate the Press; but when the ques-
tion was, whether a body of men, of good characters
and good conduct, were to be attached by one course
more than another, he apprehended it was good po-
licy, and not fear, that would point out the line of
conduct which the Committee ought to adopt. He
concluded by saying, that the Right Hon. Gentleman
topposite had advanced nothing to induce him to
abandon the Amendment which he had the honour of
proposing, and that whatever might be its fate, he
was persuaded it was a measure of prudence aad ex-
pediency to adopt it.
Mr. CANNING submitted to the House, whether
hi had not fairly and faithfully represented the senti-
ments of his Honourable Friend? He wished to set
himself right in the estimation of the House, and to
set his Honourable Friend right in his own recollec-
tion. He would appeal confidently to House,
whether, in considering the arguments of his Honour-
able Friend, he had not attributed to him exactly the
expressions which he had used? Did he not take the
very word deletion horn his Honourable Friend, as
applied to the dom►nion which bad been exercised by
means of the Press? Did he not give the picture of
a person exercising a power unbounded over thy pub-
lic mind, through the medium of the Press? Did het
not speak of that awe with which the Public looked
up to this•extraordidary ad mystic personage, the,
description of which reminded him of the
.passage in
which King Evandef &Scribed the Genial that haun-
.

ted the sits of the ?arpeiau llocki to the awe-settak .
•
peasants i
4. Amiss tram
dredunt se ddisse Jovem; dam wise dgrantsed
" JEgida amcuteret demo nimbosque deret!"
The House would reniember that the clonds were -
not wanting to perfect-the resemblance—(Hears hear)4
And was it possible for any one to be at a loss to
find out who this nescio quit deus was—this power,
however, enveloped hi awful concealment? With'
respect to the proposed Amendment, he could not
admit it, nor could he consent to alter the necessary
provisions of a Bill, because some innocent persons
may fall. Much had been said of the fears which
the Legislature ought to entertain when it Was enact,
ing particular measures. There were various kinds
of fear : there was a provident fear, which eau•
tiously prepared a security against danger, and this
was the fear which he wished to inculcate on the
House. There was another fear, or, rather, fascinai
tion, which led the victim into the jaws of the mon-
ster who devoured him.
Mr. BROUGHAM was in favour of the Amend-
ment, and stated his utter objection to the punish•
ment of banishment for the second cffence. He said,
it was precisely the same as transportation in this
sense, that in consequence of a compact which ex-
isted among the Sovereigns of Europe, to allow no
person from the dominions of one into those of the
other, without a passport from his native Govern.
ment ; a Secretary of State had it in his power to re-
fuse an individual banished from England a passport,
and consequently to deprive him of a residence in
any of the European countries. What was this in
effect but the worst sort of transportation ? To add
to the grievance, the persons who might be supposed
to be the objects of this punishment were, generally
speaking, very far from being in affluent circum-
stances. There was another objection—namely,
the consequences of sending political writers out of
the country, imbued with a hatred and a resentment
against this Government. He was not stating an
imaginary case—for he would ask, who were our
bitterest enemies in America during the whole, of the
late war? They were the Irish exiles—(Hear!)--.
In Paris, too, they who were banished from Ireland,
during the unfortunate rebellion there, were the most
active, the most persevering in their hostility to this
country, whether as assisting in the military prepa-
rations, for the invasion of Great Britain, or in con.
ducting Newspapers, which continually laboured to
hurt the character of this country. But it was mar•
vellous enough that while the Hon. Member indul-
ged in declamation against the licentiousness of the
Press, no one was found to notice the traduction of
private character which prevailed to such an excess,
during the last ten years. In fact, there appeared to
be in the Public abase appetite for private slander,
and there were not wanting individuals base enough
to pamper it. He was delighted, indeed, to find
that the good taste of the Public had succeeded in put-
ting down two periodical works, the Editor of one of
which was singled out for the patronage of the Noble
Lord opposite. The works he particularly alluded
to were The Satirist and The Scourge. The former
lit had been his professional duty to examine ;
and he should say, that fouler and more filthy
slander was never heaped together than was to be
found in that most detestable publication---(Hear).
That filthy work held out the most private parts of
the private life of individuals to public observation.
In one instance, there was a picture added to illus.
trate the odious history of what was said to have
passed in the chamber of one of the most distin-
guished ornaments of the Peerage. Yet the Editcir
of this abominable publication was rewarded with
the place of Consul, in New England too, where
purity was as much prized as it was in any other
part of the world-. This, to say the least of it, was
a great piece of indiscretion. The Honourable Mem-
ber concluded, by animadverting on the remark of
an Honourable Member on a former night, relating
to the education of the People.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that no one was
more disposed than he was to join in the reprehension
of that systematized attack on private character, tb
which the Honourable Member alluded. . But he
submitted to the House, that the Honourable Mem-
ber had not treated him fairly, when he abstained
from stating a very material fact, with respect to the
appointment of Mr. Manners, Editor of the Satirist,
to the office of Consul. The Honourable Member
would recollect that he (Mr. Brougham) had formerly
put a question to him (Lord Castlereagh) with re-
spect to this very individual, upon which inquiry was
made, and the result was certainly not such as to in-
duce him to advise the removal of this individual
from the appointment. Until the question was put
to him at the time, he never knew any thing if lilt.
Manners previous life.
Mr. BROUGHAM admitted that the person- was
appointed before he asked 'any question of the Noble
Lord ; but was it not true that, after the inquiry, the
Noble Lord confirmed that appointment? •
Lord CASTLEREAGH said the fact was lo; blit
the inquiry, strict as it was, furnished no gronud to
justify him in setting aside the appointment-4 Year).
Mr. SCARLET' supported the Amendment, and
argued to prove that the definition of libel contained
in the Bill might include cases that were innocent
and inadvertent, or even laudable, as well as those
which were really of a criminal character.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH requested to know
why the example of the Act of the 96th of the. King
`had been departed from in the present Bill ? In that
'Act, the words " maliciously and advisedly" were
used before " writing and publishing."
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the Bill
now before the House did not introduce any new of-
fence, but only went to enact an accumulative pu-
nishment for an offence well known to the law. The
words proposed by the Amendment were not, there-
fore, necessary, or could serve to imply a doulaupon
the law ; besides the word " maliciously" must of
necessity be introduced into all indictments for libel.
Mr. SCARLETT said, that be recollected when it
was customary to insert
-the word " falsely" in in-
dictments for libel ; and he hoped that the word " ma-
liciously" might share the same fate during the of*
Ice of the preterit Atterney-General.
f After a few words'more from Sir JAM'S ?doom.
tonne, Colonel ELLISON, the ATTOSNZT.GINISLAL,
and Mr. SCAILLIITT, the Gallery was ordered to be
cleared ; but the Amendment walk subsevently no.
'retired without a division. . • • • • • •
Mr. DEAIMAN oppookt the daseetailiell ado-

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