Star.
London, England, 1817-03-26 00:00:00

dio Sala... we No* and Lorna Friend bad'
feerad math fault With the clause which empowered
a single Magistrate to stop say individual who was
.propoonding matter that tended to bring the Govern-
ment into contempt. That power, however, might
even now, be exercised by a common constable, and
of mines should be granted to a Magistrate in parti-
cular circumstances. Besides. the Magistrate acted
upon his responsibility, and Was liable to an action at
law, if be unjustly exercised his authority. The only
question for them to consider was, whether the pre-
sent measure was founded upon a manifest and just
necessity in his conscience he believed it was, and
therefore he should vote for 'the third reading of it.
Lord ST. JOHN would readily agree to this Bill,
if he could be persuaded that it was necessary. The
first duty of every man was, to save the Constitution
if he thought it in danger ; and for that purpose he
would readily part with a portion of his liberty.—
The question however, now was, whether such a sa-,
erifice became necessary ? He was aware of the Re-
ports made by the Houses of Lords and Commons;
but he must say, there was nothing in them which
could furnish a sufficient ground for such a measure
as this. He knew that the Habeas Corpus Act had
been suspended in 1722, but no such proceedings
took place at that time as were now resorted tot no
sealed bag was brought for the inspection of a Secret
Committee; the papers containing the documents on
which the Suspension had then been moved for, were
laid on the table in an open box for the inspection of
all the Members; and then the House referred gum
to a Committee, whose Report was entered on the
,Journals. That Report set forth most circumstan-
tially the designs of the Pretender against this coun-
try, Sir R. Walpole then did what the present Mi.
nisters ought to have done; he raised the public cre-
dit, which.had met with a great shock incoasequeate
Of the failure of the South Sea scheme; and on the
want of which the Pretender had built kis chief hopes
of. gaining the people of this country over to his side.
Why, he would ask, did not the present Ministers
follow that example, and remove the causes of pub-
lic complaint ? Why did they not endeavour to di.
minish taxation, which was the chief muse of public
distress and discontent ? Why was sot Parliament
called together early in the season for this purpose ?
Why had not the distressed state of :our trade been
taken into consideration ? He would repeat it, and
contend that there was no necessity for this measure,
which would establish a terrible precedent for future
Ministers. The very severity of the provisions con-
tained in it would prevent them from being carried
into execution. A great and dangerous power was
to be given to one Magistrate, and his discretion was
to be final. This was a discretion which, in ordinary
cases, had not been given to Judges, notwithstanding
the high confidence so deservedly placed in them.
The Earl of WESTMORELAND sad he was
fully convinced that this measure was necessary. Stich
measures bad often been resorted to before; the Ha-
beas Corpus Act had often been suspended, and the
, discretion thereby given to individeals had never been
abused. As a proof of this, a of Indemnity had
seldom been asked for, and when it was it was always
granted. A measure of this kind was more neces-
sary against a domestic than a foreign enemy, be-
caase'the latter could be opposed by open force; but
a domestic was to be met only by extraordinary ri-
gour in the laws. He was surprised at the pleeedity
•ith. which a Noble and Learned Lord (Erskine)
contemplated and undervalued the dangers by which
the country was encompassed. He would ask the
Noble Lord how it was possible for him to read the
Reports made by the Committees of the two Houses
of Parliament, and shut his eyes against the dangers
, by which the Government was threatened from trea-
son, rebellion, murder, and conflagration?—(Hear.)
How could he read these Reports raid not perceive
that attempts had been made to corrupt the religion,
the morals, and the allegiance of the country ; toge-
ther with a pretty little attempt to plunder the pro-
perty of the whole nation ? This was surely a much
greater danger than any that could arise from it
change of dynasty. The opposition that had been
made to the Bill would go the length of saying that
Parliament might safely repeal all the laws against
crime, sad consequend be repeal of all the laws against
treason would be the first boon granted to the Eng-
lish people, if the counsel of the Noble Lords opposite
was to be followed. He denied that the mouths of
the people would be stopped by this measure; it
was by no amass a new measure, for similar ones
had been passed in the reigns of Henry IV. Henry V.
and Henry VII. and in those of Edward IV. and
Edward V. and the want of such a measure was the
cause of the misfortune which took place in the reign
of Charles I. He would vote for the passing of this
Bill in pity to the persons who might be made the
instruments of wicked Incendiaries and traitors, and
it was against synch persons only that the provisions
of the Bill were directed. He would vote for it,
because be was convinced that be should thereby pro.
mote the safety of the Crown and the Parliament,
and the good of the people.
Earl GRQSVENOR said, he should not enter
much is detail es this subject. Hest ndrrstoodshit
it was the intention of Ministers to renew the,dneptsl-
sion of thir Habeas Corpus daring the sitting ot, Par-
liament. If such an attempt were made, he would
come to town, although he might be subjected to
ever so great an inconvenience, and give it his de-
aided opposition,. unless some extraordinary Stange
took place before that time in the state of public affairs.
With respect to what die Noble Earl had said re-
specting measures of thii kind in the early periods of
oar Parliamentary history, there surety was no ana-
logy between the times of the Henrys and Edwards,
and the present time. Nor was there any analogy.
between the present state of things and those which
existed in 1796. We bad no foreign enemy now;
there were IN parties in the country plotting to bring
over a &trigs army. Nobody entertained any fears
at this time respecting *poison, who, like Prome-
theus, was chewed to a barren ,rock; nor was there
any occasion to dread thar, in his son, the visions of
Hamilcar respecting Hannibal were likely ever to be
realited. The assertion that the powers granted by
such Bills as these had never been abused, /as not
correct. In order to shim how Magistrates might
hereafter behave, he would notice a circumstance that
took place about twenty years ago. A large meeting
bad been held in a field at Pancras. Sir William
Addington, then Chief Justice at Bow4treet, a near
relation to the Noble Secretary of State, and certainly
a very respectitbla Magistrate, was remarkably vigi-

bat In attending this )t.etiag. end in obeerving every
thing that fen from the speakers. When one of the
latter uttered these tineds--'s I will now give you the
exposition of a Bow.street Magistrate." Sir W. Ad-
dington called out to the constables, saying, pull
down that fellow 1" The speaker was aecordingly
taken into custody; and this act of magisterial power
was never after noticed in Parliament. After such an
exercise of discretion, whn could say what Magistrates
would not do, should the present Bill pass
The Duke of ATHOL spoke in favour of the Bill.
His Grace observed, that the distress of the country
was certainly unprecedented during the period of
years to which his experience extended ; but it was to
be imputed not only to the cessation of the war ex-
penditure, but also to the unpropitiousness of the las

_ . .
season. The country, however, was rapidly return-
ing to its former state of prosperity, and this be at'
tributed chiefly to the energetic measures of Govern-
ment. He would net have voted for the present Bill,
if, in his conscieece, he bad not been convinced of its
necessity.
Lord AUCKLAND did not think that the netts.
shy of the present occasion warranted the enactment
of such a Bill as was now before the House. The
only attempt made to •disturb the public peace had,
failed. The outrage on the Prince Regent was din.
mowed 55 4 ground for the Bill, and as for the stories
detailed of the dangers arising from the existence of
'several clubs, he did not give them any credit. The
great distress of the country may in some places have
caused a little irritation,but his Lordship thought no
cause existed for taking away every harrier between
the privileges of the Crown and the liberties of the
people. He was particularly averse to that clause in
the Bill which empowered a single Magistrate to die.
perse a meeting. It should be recollected that the
Magistrate may act through wantonness and pens-
lance, and yet resistance to his commands must per-
haps he expiated by blood—(Near, hear.) Ministers
had imputed the rise of the Funds to the passing of
the Sisspeusion Act. This reminded him of the story
of a traveller, who,
' having arrived late in the even-
ing at a lowa, and slept there, enquired next morning
the name of the place, and was told Stoney Strat-
ford—" I am not surprised said he, for I never was
more bitten with fleas in the whole course of my
life." The application was as just in one case as in'
the other. —(.4 laugh)
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM observed, ft
was impossible not to admit that great danger existed
in the country. It was no argument against the ex-
istence of that danger that no great or distinguished
leaders
;appeared among the people. It was in a
manner nearly similar that the French Revolution
had commenced. It was tree, that revolution had
been effectually put down, but he thought enough re-
mained of its ruins to :hew the materials of which
it was constructed. He thought it his duty to warn
their Lordships of any, even the slightest approach
to such an unhappy hod destruitire state of society,
and it Was particularly incumbent so to do when he
recollected that that bloody period originated in dis-
tresses similar to those now existing in this country.
The Government was then, as now, industriously
viliced, the people were rendered discontented, leaden
arose in quick succession, until one bolder than the
rest assumed the sceptre, and bore down the liberties
of the coontry...(Xear, hear).—lf it was true that
there was but a sheet interval between the prisons of
sovereigns and their graves, it was equally true that
the distance was small between a Goverment vilified
and a Government overcome. The labourers had
been put forward as so many pioneers to open the
trenches, and to mate way for the more skilful engi-
neer, who were loon to follow, in order to facilitate
the conquest of the fortress which it was intended to
attack. In 1794. the sane means were made use of
for the same ends, and by the very same hands.—
The clamour for Reform was then rlised, religion
was scoffed at, the landholder was called a pest, and
the fundholder e nuisance; the Crown was then in-
sulted, as it was lately outraged ; if, therefore, the
same dangers existed then as now, why not apply to
them the same remedies-1;4 hear, hear) t This Bill
was not directed against the right of petition, but
against the abuse of that right—against such meetings
as were held in spa-fields and- Manchester—meetings
against which the Constitution bad not provided, be.
cause it never contemplated them. By the existing
Law, it was true, that the Riot Act might be read,
and the meeting might perhaps be thus dispersed ;.
but he contended that that Act was not sufficient to
meet the evils daily witnessed. The Magistrates;
would not quire, in fact, a much greater portion of
power by t e present Bill than the Riot Act lfad
actalready gm. By that Act any one Migistrate was
empowered to enforce its provisions; and. in cue of
resistance, to order the military to fire upon the
people. One good effect of the law already passed
was, that, in consequence of it, the meeting which
had been called at Spa-fields for yesterday, did not
take place. The real enemies of the people were
those who, for their own purposes, urged them to
abuse their rights ; thereat friends of thrpeople were;
those who wished to see those rights duly exercised.;
For these reasons be.would vote for he Bill. .
~ ;
The Earl of DARNLEY considered the Bill to-
tally uncalled for. The conspiracy against which it:
was chiefly meant to operate, was contemptible in ite
lorigin as well as in its porkers. Whatever insubeti
dination existed was owing to the distress of the
country, and would terminate with it. As to the
attempt made to disturb the peace of the Metropolis,
it had been frustrated by the Laws as they befora
stood, and therefore he did not thick that any new
Laws were necessary. i
The Earl of ABERDEEN observed, that neces-
sity alone could justify the Bill before the House, and
that necessity being prove 4 Le felt himself called upon
to give it his support. As to the opinion of the coun-
try with respect to the expediency of this and the
ether measures which had recently been adopted,i
their. Lordships had received various and contradic-
tory statements, but from the result of his inquiry, and
oot! m
the eti o , h
motee i wmaesuli led e
nto a
dand
conclude,consi-
derate
he had endeavoured, by every means in his power, to
collect accurateint f
that the judgment
part of the people was decidedly in favour of
the policy which dictated those measures, The Noble,
Lords on the opposite side of the HoUte, were, how.'
ceuntnoviasuertetur;resitfovrowAt.fowApaprecitncclnosoocennrdtttdihnibetugatsuswttfreonieorantath:te
pottecetsocjds:bitwdliaiymerra, allegedlani i
att maotuf
aßajescirious known
oldnyol.:o4i
I:ti hill:►tei

_ Mal 7

of the people Weil asi4elea, et, seeottli I le
others, when we were on tIN elle of a revolution .—.
but he submitted to those Noble Lords, whether it
would not be better to adopt such a course with a
view to prevention—with a view in due time to Ruard
against such evils? Such prevention or guard 5...-.
the object of this Bill, and therefore he most cordially
approved of it. Those Noble Lords might, how.
ever, boast, that this Bill, and the measures which it
was meant to accompany, were unnecessary, if no
actual danger should occur, which he trusted would
be the case, but he would leave their Lordships to en-
joy the boast, and exult in the cry of victory. while he
would applaud the wise providence of the measures
which he hoped would furnish them with the occasion.
With respect again to the amount of the danger,
which some of these Noble Lords required to jeorif
the adoption of the measures alluded to, namely, i.; .
they should not be enacted merely because a mino . •
of the people were disaffected, he begged those No
Lords and the House to consider, that as it sea., :t•_
disputably true that the greatest evils in all Revolu-
tions proceeded from the minority, so in hoist t.f
energy and consequent power, a minority tni!-Itt by-
come the real effective majority of the coo •ty—
(Hear, hear, hear.)—That great energy appear d t..i
belong to some of those by whom recent tunr.thuoi.;
scenes wete excited, could not at all be eloilbtes!.
But it was said that those scenes were not the .result
of any contrivance or arti6cial ertheinent, bur pro.
duced solely by the extent of ti e public distreA.
That distress he was ready to admit, L,nd he deptered
its pressure as much as any man. 'rho: e, tvii,,iret,
who promoted son.e late public meetings, had. he
was persuaded, other objects in view than its reactor
mitigation, and these objects ease the lime ;% cha,
ractertaed the same class of agitators on a ttirtElti oc.
casion. On that occasion a Noble Earl opposite
thought it his duty to support the Suspension . t t:,,
Habeas Corpus Act, and on an occasion 3imilAr t
the present. But yet that Noble Earl in this inst .nce
opposed a similar policy, accounting for his change
of opinion upon this ground, that the country was on
that occasion involved in war, while at present it was
in a state of peace. The question, however, was not
whether the country was in peace or war, but whether
it was not as desirable in the one case, as well as in
the other, to deprecate and provide against such evils
as anarchy, civil bloodshed aad conlusinn: and
whether those evils were not as much to be apple.
headed now as in the year 1794:—(Hear, /roar.)_
The Noble Earl had dwelt much upon the grievances
to which the country was subjected, and upon he dis-
tresses which the people suffered ; but he begged the
Noble Earl to consider whether these grievances wete
likely to be reduced, or these distresses alleviated, by
involving the country in confession ? or whether such
confusion was not rather likely to aggravate such
evils ?—(lfeee, hear.) With regard to the observa-
tion. that Ministers should have had Parliament con-
vened at an earlier period, in order to consular ehe
distress of the country. he thought that observatint,
had been already sufficiently answered. But as to
the distress itself, he had himself resisted is sem
source of information within his reach, in order to
'ascertain the cause of its pressure; he had also, n;tti
the same view, listened attentively to ev*y N..b1.:
Lord who had spoken upon the subject, espocivily
Irons the other side of the House.. When, however,
he heard a Noble Marquis (the Marquis Wellesley)
mate on a former evening, that the chstre,s of this
country was owing :o the annexation of Genoa to
Sardinia, aad to that of Lombardy to Austria, he
confessed that be gave up all idea of accurate infor-
mation from that quarter—(A kink and Hear, hear!
Ilp the ellititieterial Renate.) Ace' rding to his judg-
ment, one great cause of the distress. especially among.
manufacturers atsd tradesmen, proceeded from the
immense reduction of public expense consequent upon
the peace, and the economic retrenchment of the Ad-
ministration; but still he trusted that his Majesty's
Ministers would persevere in their system of retrench-
ment and economy, and they could not fail thus to
ensure the approbation and grati•ude of every reflec-
ting considerate man in the country. The Noble
Earl concluded with maintaining, that the Bill under
consideration was calculated to guard against great
and impending evils, while it in no degree tended to
interfere with the subject's just right of petition.
Earl GROSVENOR in explanation, observed,
that his change of opinion with regard to the neces.
sity of the measures adopted at a former period, and
those at present proposed, did not rest solely upon
the circumstance of this coisntry having been then at
'war, but upon this ground, also, that there were et
that period persons us this country actually plottir.;
with those who ruled the Government of Franct..
for the subversion of the Constitution of this counl7:..
while, as he before stated. the country was at pt.:-
sent free from either of those evils.

The Duke of SUSSEX said, that from the obser.
rations of the Noble Earl on the opposite betict
(Aberdeen), and those of the Noble Marquis on the
bench below him (Buckingham), from both of whom
be differed most materially, be felt it impossible to
rgive a silent vote upon this important question.
was attare, that from the opinion which any Not;::
Lord pronounced on this occasion, be would be con-
ceived to stand pledged for his constitutional (Ix•
trines; and although he differed totally from Crog
.liable Lords who occupied the Ministerial bcnche
he felt conscious that hr was as strongly attached t',
the true principles of that Constitution as any jai.:
dual among them. Upon the allusion. which
been made to so many foreign topics, wiliich werr, in
his judgment quite foreign to this country, and to ri
question before the House, he did not propt:r.'
dwell i but he could not forbear from ot.sziving,
it was an egregious error to maintain, that no p-rco"
of consequence or considetaLion were concerned '1
originating or promoting the Preach
which seemed to be the conception of the Nob' i!.
quis (Buckingham). It was notorious t tat 7:
the ablest writers in France were on the sid of
Revolution, while it was also seconded by ieve'l
persons of high rank. There sees,
illustrious Personage, he was sorry to sar, Plcu*
liarly distinguished in prommirg that evert.--
Dot among the important objectiow to any Revolt'.
don, it ought to be considered, with raped to 0.1
Individual, that no man engaged in advancirg such
an event could •be aware of the result or rhoger
which his. onduct tended; so he thought that iod •
vidual was rot at all aware of the con e,ue c:s
font wei, or of the calamities in W h ch his multi'
was p anti br 1.4m4 gliejiarapv p o *iiing,