Star.
London, England, 1828-05-02 00:00:00

fort, the
shlayok. Alderm'ett, and • ; eisOns enghied Ili
wr„viog uf. St* it. NO,rwrifli, cirtn.plaining the
low rate Tfie,rqnnpflopturers had o• strong
tijoaciamtn,grve their WOrmen good Wages. but cir•
comstances prevented them.. The protection given to
the agricultutist was. a
.forithen on the working clines.
vete mercantile interests, the •Silk trade especially: re-
nu.4ol further protection. He would not then move
'l4, Committee. of Inquiry, but he trusted that the
petition he held in his hand would meet with the serious
and deliberate attentidn oldie House. He moved that
the petition be brought up. •
mi,WODEHOUSE said, that be had a similar Pe.
swot to present; and that he trusted the House would
pay the attention which was due to so important a
subject.
sit. BERNAL had also a Petition to present to the
use on the subject. The present• state of things de.
wow the most serious attention of Parliament. The
neitionallowing from so many qoarters were quite as
4;4 entitled to consideration as the claims of any other
siso of his Majesty's subjects, whether agricultural or
commercial. All that the Periti-ners required was,
Mat the masters and the men stviuld he eitipoo.ered to
Ned fur the purpose of arrangiirr, the rate of the wages
which might be justified by the circumstances of the
riot!. Hrestrongly urged the appointment of a Com-
mittee to inquire into the subject.
bar. FLYER said, that he also had Petitions of a
similar nature to present from Coventry and SpitaL
fields. He deprecated the pressing of abstract principles
of pacy in cases in which the general interests al
whole classes were concerned. 'What the Petitioners
wished for was, not any legislative standard or results.
tino of wages, but that a Committee should be formed
of masters And men, to meet from time to time. and
arrange what appeared to them to be the proper rate.
f; by granting that request the persons now complain.
in were pacified. a great step would be gained.
Mr. W. SM I l'H, 'while he was quite sensible of the,
gikvences under which the Petitioners laboured; wail
mike as adverse to the proposed remedy as the Hon.,
Alderman by whom the Petition had been presented.
He was perfectly convinced, that any Legiilative..
interference between the* masters and the workmen
would be pi ochre ice n f the most injurious consrquencrsA
Mr..C. GRANT thought that the pre ent was not a
kopportunit) for the di;cussion of the subject, though
veld not refrain from acknowledging that he felt a
interest in the fate of the Petitioners, to whose
cheater and conduct he was willing to bear the
tti-
beeof his praise. lie thought the House ought to
se.the Petiti2hOrt4i every favourable feeling,
be could not soma the doctrines advanced,
could he altogether agree that the Petitioners weft'
) distressed a condition as some bad represented.
the year 18011..m.mral taitsinitteis had set upom
, and they bad in agreed upon the imprac.
Liability of settling a minimum ol'iages by eV
dative enactment. Every Commitme Atad tn.
agreed that this measure liras tspriaiishlgsprac-,
*able, but that, were it practicable, a recourse to at
Id be attended with the worst possible ccritsequeoces.l
Right Honourible Gentleman then read .trattiousi
its from the Report's of tonnistees, in prelerl
,port his previous assertions. He felt +winced'
had parliament formerly fixed. or attemPiesi
Unimum price of the warn of weavers, tfie mit:Orr
mutes of the "country' could sieves' bine Bien..
to their prr,ent carriclitipn•
IddOIC)C sopporied the appointment of a C 0..!
, The Petition did not pray for a minimum a
, bet it prayed that the wages shootd 'beret
['Cc! he thought the plan tnniediNchtt io be ez,4-.'
to effeCr. A
,modes ate Chrh arlf Would .be else
is of relieving the Petitioners rbut them *lb
another remedy—rednetion• of *the tiles. TOoW
were prictiCal; not tbeofetitaltrigible, tSot
If tie Engiisb etrictsliiirint iere as generous;
_ poor as the French aericulturistis, the oistreis of.
lin waking classes of England witsld be iteat
'40041:

.00

a!,

- -
IIh.WOOD said. ;hit if the House refused.to appoint
s.Comietkere, the.retitsoners would naturally complain«
Thy would .sly. N if we are in error, why is not a Ca*:
tearer appointed to sor lie hiokstiff *asides.:
silted that the measpie 'WORId.Ee roala:
impracticable an injurious;. bst txill he thought a Coma-
mine, ought to be appninted, for the satisfaction of the
Petitioners. fle.regifrdei the Corn Laws as
.the sails
of the dinTe,s in the ptiiimkOirifig,olisiricti.
Titretithe was thee teos ,Ot't srhnwsk to ordered tabs pelpseitj
IlliatiaL presented a rimier ladies freas the Mist
Vows at Klearrattaster.—Orderee en hipdeied.
CUSTOMS A ND =CIS* LAW TRORLAZMUjiML
_Mr. HARVEY rose for the purpose of moving a
Iletalurion of which he had given Oink*. relative to
4kettliediency of appointing an efficient coriuml oiler
origin and conduct, ail proceedings instituted
Crown, for the recovery of penalties tinder. the
• and Excise Laws. He had learned within an
with regret, thitii was the intention of
_his
.Ma-
Goreroro-- - oppose the °lotion. Ito regretted
bectoirt it
,Made i lecessary
'ion go rag into statements
and of a dreary tedioes
lammed, however. to make
was open the subject. which
be would occupy its atten-;
In the first place be shored
of the country were most
;pea to Customs and Etch/
,hem the iouittry wad lob.
,cemary expense. • In the next
hat the authority wkieb some
crested was injnlions, repe-
at-Odin tbnet-erho stet! it
By a reference to the
ArdHotise world find that they
ny dire Returns it
.
of. infoimations filed bfibe
Coon of •Escherpta . for
and Excise Laws dosing fiet
Of there 940 were for. the
the*Coltrk idd.pl
;ist haws: 114 (401 jai*
as 1,038.7098. and that shit
equal proportions in the tem'.
formations filed oa Itie.l'l,att
;cessful ; and a ihe 944 Med
iss**oB only were suece*sful.
tiant tried by .the'CruitOin?i
I by the Excise. Ther-efore"
1,019 tans out of 1,861—..
thervonehalf of *the Whole.
-Aged no • benefit whateien-j
Pclk!f!*4.o7d'e Pittli#o3l4l
epowoos profits in 'AV° Of
. to the sum recoveiiiil; .fist,
. erOant caught for, Ib7.
bring little some than half a crown
hole, and on the department of
#.l4iritlioixopgt lotion;
Nog ett4;licied: .B 0 i
57.4261. received, not one Earthing found

rts way into the Exchequer. fia WAS eaten ip by law
expenses and othereithrges: The" iiiiweetrutitala...-
stituted by the Ciiithdli, dialed arifritilieterrelsWiltd% IN!
28,0001. while thoe upiin the isrnceedingilOr the Esc'sre,
were 59.2751. .Out of the 15/,B26l.i.being the. total re=
coverei by the Crown, the sum of 45,8791. was paid so
informers; ind the result of the whole. Wes, that-after
the payment` of the law charges, the • ioqiiiners, lod
other matters, the public revenue sustained a loss
from the prosecution of the intormations of 12,0671-
It further appeared, from an analysis which he had
made of the returns before the House, that the
costs in 63. cases amounted to 9,5771.—the amount
of penalties went for in those cases, weer aged on each
301.--and• the tertittsum recovered was 3781- only.—
Having stated thus much in support of hictirst position;
he would call the attention of the House to the circum•
stances which led to the aggravation of the evil. Upon
an average the costs for every cause was 1721. No
penelties, however small, could be recovered Ai less
cost, on the average, than 1721. And upon looking
over the particulars of the costs, he found two or three
items. which were particularly worthy of attention.—
He was perfectly satisfied that it was only necessary for
him to bring them under the attention of his Majesty's
Government in order to secure their removal. Toe first,
item of that character was the fee paid ton person called
the Clerk in Court. In the Court of Exchequer there,
were six or eight of those persons, and their offices were
sinecures, in as much as the duties were discharged byl
deputies. The Clerk in Court received on in• averege,
on each inforination 201. and such was the practice of
the Court, that'no information could be prosecuted to,
a conclusion without the assistance bf those officers.‘-1
Another very singular item was 30'f jurors for 28 easse‘
being 0ft.411 average 141 jurors to each cause. Thaw'
was a nine when jurors received 40s: for every ierdicil
returned its favour of the Crown, and were fined in 20s.
tor Every verdict returned against the Crown ; but that
hlppe invention for securing verdicts wat no longer in
force. and way he could account for so large a
notaber of jurors was lions the fact of their being paid
for ansswitiog tetheir names, whether they were ;rupee-
nelled or not. In one bill of costs he found, for 23jorye
men. 20. 3s. and in another there were' 50 jurymen
charged for. He thought that that ought to be amended,
nay, he went farther, and thought that the jurors should
not be paid 'at all. He then came to the fees paid • to
Counsel. The aver age amount of the fees paid to the
Counsel on each case was 521. It was an enormous•
payment; for 'the business Os be transacted was, gene-
rally speaking. of a most simple kind, confined to -A
sirilple faCt, and supported by very willing witnesses.
He had a bill before him which would show that the
Lew Officers 'of the Crown were most enormously paid,
not for services performed, hilt generally for staying
away for ifltiey did' not read one line of the brief, they
Ltd their feet i did same. In the most simple cause
hair niel ‘ere 'retained on the part of the Crown.
The ItttOfpii:dcneiat hid ten guineas, the Solicitor-
pelletal hid tett giineat, Mr. Clarke hal 81. 101.61
and Mr. Walton had 41.65. 6d. But he had also an*.
the! 1)0).4 tbe costs incurred by a defen-
dant. .The brief for the prosecution consisted of eight
sheets, and that for thedetence occupied nineteen sheets.
Mr. Jatyis.'apentleniak- of well known eminence in his
pinfetaioes; war the only Counsel for the defence;ind be
received a fee of five guineas. , Then he ahed why it
'was that the counts? should have to pay 301. for that
whichs
t in individual could bate tistuillY well done for
rie•guineis? 'Having touched upon the expenses for
.r..oneset. he would call the attention of the House to
the expenses fur witnesses. The trial always took place
in,W4orsioster Ha, and the .tonsequence was, that
Nofrreijer great the distance, the parties were obliged to,
'come to L.oncion; In one case, where the witnesses re-.
'sided ar Newcastle, the charge upon their account
'wit thliee' litindred and eighty pounds; white if the'
Icifielial been tried on Orcuit, the expenses would,
have been comparatively nothing. lie wished to say
4. few wordy with respect to the severity of the pro.;
:ceed,ngs: Ha- had selected five pirticular cases.—
ilone art executioh was issued' where the costs Wire'
061. and the produce of the "goods, all the man had in.
'the world, was 41. 7s.fid. In another the costs -were
1601. and the goods 'produced 51.55. 61. In another
the costs were 1401. and the goods brought 111. Ifs.
Its another the costs were 3251, and the goods predated,
Si. 2s. Id. and in the fifth case the costs were 1411. and
the levy was•l7.: In order to show the effect of !Itch'
sevealty..he refitted to a Petition on the table; fle'theat)
'carne to the Wiressity of 'establishing a sufficient can-,
. trottl over the origin and conduct of Excise and Cos.,
toms prosecutions. If he was told that at present no!
it trirmatitin Could be peoceeded with but by the 'direr-'
tiosi'of the Boaids„ it proved one of two things, either:
that the Boards were inefficient from ignorance, or that
they were guilty of culpable negligence. He had before
him the bill of costs an one of the most severe and harsh
cases ever.heard tit, even in the Court of Exchequer—
llt waa'that Of,Captain fluent. By the Navigation Act,
'a Master of a vessel was Tendered liable to a penalty of
'4OO it was a variaticalsetween the ship's srlastifeei
'and its contents. It so happened' that Captain BrYairti
who wider]. from ;hit country to Surinam, hid, on' hits
arrival here, an entry of. 145 casks of pepper, weight
12,0601b5. bin on inspection the pepper proved to be in
"bags instead of casks. Captain Bryant explained th
chows:mess, whirls were unavoidable, and the POS•
:toms. finding the weight perfectly accurate, gave bias
permission to amend his manifest: He did so. Aber
that he performed another. voyage, and his first salto:
tatino on arriving in this country was an Exchequer
,process, Which bad. been issued out against
He sent alleasotiitl to the Customs. bat the Petititte
war rejected; oh the'grOand that no offeror plytneiti
'bad been made; In ail glees of 'hit, kind guilt woe
'presumed, and a man must admit that he is a criminal
'be im e be *can be acquitted. These wet u motive ftei
'die, for 41, the tittle the machinery the law was IN
'action. A third 'Petition Wai sent in rejected:t .A 4
length be was driven into the Court of,Eachequer for
defetsce,'end the Chief Baron held that he was not
Orthittect•hy law to amend hit manifest.- He then Mil
a p 1 exceptions, and was floaty exonerated by "the
pt yoseot of his costs. These costs upon an average
were 475 i. The costs in this case were 1601.51.514
Oie he tatid hie own *solicittir 891. 81. At present, Mot
easaoti thit kiqd'etel be tried at the Petty Sessionsbefoid
Magistrates. But 'how does this system work? To
w this he *told mention one case--that of Wawa
stock. This. poor smin. alter many years' .setaiael
WA a 10141 halite in: Stabbing. in the county if
*IL where be tft • *mall brewery; whit
lilablitAiritse.' He stk*d before"thted 'testi;
pcfgypeo. • Now he Amid ask, was this i-clee
VW. of proceeding to *Point Clergymist ta'suelt
it &nation? liawmay -lie 'rendered A good lawyer,
hot in the same.pospossion he was tandiseri unfit for his
"littlest dattiti;• oh. proportion as a than fitted himself
tot We 4inortitornti Geral, the'sank prcto6F:
'i, . .
post he toatd/ere4 item an t for that if I clertrilhao.
Iteratteatat Sat orday he was suntroopedhefo#tberfi, and
rewas 4ttedldt. because be did not wane jpreoise
at which he intended to toe siiniegmfan,

he money. and afterwards endeavoured to clear his
shititii ;be brought the question'ter the ibssinei--alt
thwiting's Counsel were arrayed Ifgainst hint. 'but the
*firmer was found guilty of pesjory.- An applicatinh
Lwas sob,eqtlently made to quash the indict ment.upon the
grtiOnd MMUS' Malt was desci ibed ici be ibieviii,whereas
he' was* tilettailfer.. He trusted the. Governstiesit would'
restore to the poor Man the 3001. he paid f.'r the pur-
pose of vindicating his character. • This was enoegh
to show that there should be some more efficient con-
trout. in instituting these prosecutions. He cast no
imputation upon any person. It was the System that
was defective. There ought to be some tribtutal of
adequate responsibility, to be open at all times to the
petitions of defendants.: He admitted the necessity of
protecting. the public revenue ; but then he contended
that it might be done with equal efficiency and less.
oppression to the subject. 'The Honnutable Gentleman
concluded by moving the following Resolution-0i That.
it is expellent that an efficient controtal should be ap
pointed over tl.e origin and conduct of all proceedings
instituted by the Crown for the recovery of penalties
under the Customs and Excise Laws:**

• The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, no person could
have stated the case more lucidly, or with greater abi.
lity than the Hon. Gentleman; If he did not follow him
through the details, it would not arise from any want
of desire tonommunicate fell information to the Haute.
but because he thonght it unnecessary. He should
prbeend to the more general consideration on which
the 'Motion was grounded. The first statement of the
Huainan& Gentleman was, that the sum paid in the
''wilofetieenses for prosecutions under the Eziise and
tuapt Laws, exceeded by.,12.0001. the amount of
sitt,penaltietrecoirered. Tire statement was perhaps
correct. The amount of penalties received did not
meet the whole of the.expenses. But the House must
recollect that the Excise LAWS were applicable to a
revenhe of not less than 43,000,00 M that' they em-
braced the protection of all • the great 'internal in.
terests of the country; and that the Custoins' Laws ex-,
tended over the whole of their commerce and
.nirviga-
aims ; and the complaint of the Honourable Gentleman
was that a system *to various and iMportant in its objects,
so tridely extended in its operation,. was administered
too deerly for 12,0001. In this they *ctimpletely 'dr&
,fired. So far from considering it dear, bethought it
very cheap. The neskgeneral.observation of the Hon.
Gentleman was dart the litigation to which the present
erten, gave rise was attended with great expensl.to
&fendants, and that in many.cases thernperated-op-
pressieely.. This assertion would imply. that prosecu.
lions were sometimes instituted improperly, and to prove
it the Hon. Gentleman had re:ourse to figures. He said
that during five years there were 940 cares in the Cus.
torn; and Off irt-the "Estisei in all 1,8.41., of which
1,019. went' tinsuiedsslel,ltd be therefore concluded
that they were iestirOperly isrstitutedi as no more thin
832 had been tried. -But the Hon. Gentleman seemed
to have forgotten Abet -in the other cases, either the
parties shbotitted, or .else the matter was settled. The
interim* he should draw from' theie faits was quite'
different from that drttwn by the Hon. Gentleman. • If

,the whole of the 1,651 had been brought into the Court
in Exchequer, and.l,ooo had been lost, he would be
disposed to concur in the conclusion that such prawn.
iions were often improperly instituted. But that was
lb, no means the case. In the year 1823,. the number
Of informations under the Eloise Laws Wast2B6.* The
Crown obtained verdicti in fifty-nine, the defendants,
'were successful in three, and 173• were comprorniseiL
1624• the informations were 209; and in sixty of
*kick' there were verdicts for the Crown, two were
linaecceilful. and 147 were . compromised. In 1825
kiieid were 26.7 cases, eigt,t of which were lost. In 1826.
`VI- cal/Whit-0 only of which were lost; lad in 1827
160 carer, of which three were lost. The whole num-
ber of cases during three years; were 919, of which
'only
eighteen were lost. He thought, therefore. he
'might look back with some degree of congratulation at
this state •of the prosecutions under the Excise Laws,
'and Witty blame attachedttitheAttotneyand Solicitor,
'Central, he had every right to-ask of the House that it
should be taken atm gran. sails. It appeared to him
tbat.this was a tolerably fair per ventage of success, and
that she Attorney-General ought to stand acquitted
,ea 'these imputation; of severity so very liberally
deak Oat If he went to the Customs the thing was,
neatly the same. To one hundred cases of success there;
*Was only the proportion of one or two failures. Here.
the per tentage of success was acgreat as in the Excise.
, :10 10323 there were three hundred and sixteen informs.
tinol,end The failures-hole nil, there were none. This
Ott of nexus asikabilis with the Attorney Gene-
' litt. 1i did übt fail in 'a single case. In 1824 there.
'were tiro hundred and nineteen informations, and two
failures; is
.1825 One hundred and fifty-one cases and
two Worts ; ie.1827 twenty-seven cases end
hire. He trusted, therefcre, the Attorney General
Weald tilt appear in so monstreuse light to the House,'
`es he did thiough the gangrened medium held up by
The HOhOuriblellentlenian. TheXonottrable-Gentle-.1
Man made it a subject of serious charge, that the penal.',l
ties amounted to one million sterling. tf which no more
than 157,00 W. was ever received; but how did this tally
with tfisether charge of 'oppression? If all the penal-
were exacted, Then indeed there might be some
.irotind for' the: charge ; but ihtie two astertions de-.
fated each other. In many cases theAttotney-General:
llnssAhlt exact the double or triple penalty; when he took
bre than one. This he tnonght Wes 'quire enough
to the accusation of cruelty add epprenion
brisiight by the Honotrable Gentleman against the
'Boards of. Excise and CuStOms, and against his' Ma-
jetty's Law Meets. He should not hate dwelt so
long upon the Abject; but such statements. if they
Wentibioad unconticacted, were calculated to injure
'their', Boards in a most" unjust way, and to bring into
hatred and contempt the fiscal regulations of the 'coun-
`try. • There wete Many Cali in Which' a triple penalty
might *be evicted. If• a 'brevrer, for • instance, paid
'only the slily of table beef, when in fact he manufac-
tured ale, •a triple penalty 'seat incurred; and he united,
the hospitality of the
,IldnOurebte 'Gentleman would
induce hint to aarhit thet this cane which should
of be allowed to past isitheiut notice. In many sech
taint, wbete the Attorney; General might demand SOW.
he was id the:babit Of 'settling the matter by compro.
mice. In IBS theie were 205 such cases compromised
He fter4 he thinfght,' "to* sbfficiently proved that
there was no 'ground • full these taunts. thrown out
by the Honourable Gentleman on the 'seierity of the
Attorney General. He neat asked what had been
done with the 457,0091. paid is the shape of penal-
ties? and he said that 45,000/. of it was paid to
informers.' That •was net the fault of the Attorney
General. In revenue cases thereon. no mice of pro-
ieecfsag but thrbuitit iftfermert; The whole protection
of their revenue depended upon the information commu-
nicated to the Boards; and the principle of giving a
roportion of the penalties to the informer was as old
ak their htic4e..lf theY abolished the practice of pay-
ing istlernserts-4 they gave thempa it the way. of
paysiost,i,wtry. dies the infeemere 'meld giro
the way of ioraratatiosi. • Heft WOOld be' V.":' 14161"

lie was pc
interference
would be pi
mroC. G
kopportun
be mold no
Intl, Uttar
Chlfalef au
iota his
look ratihe
dotter he c
ow could
is so destres
Soce the y'
the subject,
tica~ity 01
kgidative
formly ago
ticatele, bui
mould beat
The flight
emits ftc
to support
that, had P,
fit, a minim
ininsfactut
anted to ti
'MG Mal
trainee. Tr
wages, but
• Ho clewed
') • into efl
I hest means
a▪ lto soothe]
a remedies w
t, iitionary. 1
1.1 to the poor

the or gis and conduct of alt 1
m the Crown, for the recovery
Cauoms and Excise Laws. },
*or. with regret. ehie.74 was•
iv •
pg. -71 Goveromentici Optt
hi- *opposition the more, al
•.,.him to support his motion
bia kith were void of interest, I
cater. He had endear*
leer& master of the Returns
de 'albeit'', the House, and hi
'timidly as possible. 10
I.e. !minds that the resources c
eetly applied with respe
enwcutions, and that by tilt
, led to a great and unnecem
La., Om, he should contend, that
Is lithe Law Officers were inve
'1 as it was erieriiitislWil
meaning any responsibility.
sit !Iltuns upon the table, the H
Whir "PP°tttd him in three poi*
a& aPPeareel that the ;umber of.
LM Atenrney General in the t
ltrLeaches of the Customs and
reNwas no less than 1,851.
b 1 geteyeiy of penaltiei Under di
q's PtnaltiO.under' the Excis
,ge ' • .fit to be recoveted was
fa distributed in nearly equ
cots. Of the 911'infoi
aa-Excise, 624 were succe
s albs kita• ,
part of the cm,atoross
t
were In ,iittoraiatiai
lb failed. imei.637 tiled h
vf as a total kaitureof
considerably more that
i*t tit which the Ceawie deti"
d, the Willre,Eert•ir4
'cas who raegive'd epormi
ofth°'t`•". Then with respect to I
gle
the 1,030:209/. the ptt~
Ar.lfit•
4 tecoveved, being litC
met tuel'eund upon the whole,
41ents. outich Jai!
""ile'closettmlifkinoWL,l
tqt
Li )0 of the 157,1126 L receive,