Star.
London, England, 1827-05-23 00:00:00

mand the attention of the greatest Man; yet they were
not willing to sever them from the Great Seal. What
were the Bankrupt Laws simply ?• What was. their
object? lie would say, although people endeavoured
to impress the idea, that these laws required long study
and painful investigation, they were, in facr, little else
than laws of common sense applied to a common ob-
ject. They were intended to give a facility in cases
of bankruptcy. First, their object was to accumulate
'the remnant of the bankrupt's means; next, to divide
it justly among his creditors; and, lastly, to give
some trifle to the bankrupt to start again in the world,
provided it appeared that he was not guilty of dishonesty.
If he had been dishonest, those laws were able to punish
' him. These were the objects of the Bankrupt Law,.
' How were these simple laws administered? By a Com-
mission of 72 persons, than whom a more incompetent
T:bunal could not be imagined. It was said to be tie.
' cessary, in order to administer these laws, to possess
experience and learaing ; but this Commission consisted
of persons of no experience; persons to whom 4001.
a year was an object! Who served a sort of appren-
' ticeship to experience, but contrary to the usual way,
for instead of paying a premium for the little informa-
tion they might acquire, were themselves paid. They
were :generally lads of promise, possessing Parlia-
mentary interest, and family influence; they were not
unfrequently men who had mistaken their talent, who,
after passing half a century at the Chancery bar, without
a brief, had at last succeeded in getting this 4001. a year
to smooth their exit from a weary life. Among the 72
there were not six properly qualified. He wished that
any Honourable Member desirous of informing him-
self of the mode in which these laws were adminis-
tered would go to Guildhall, and there he would feel
and see the necessity of removing such a crying nuis-
ance. There were fourteen petty Courts, and five
Commissioners to each. Three made a quorum. These
Commissioners were not paid a regular salary, but
derived their income from making business to the
prejudice of the creditor. He wished some Members
could see one out of the three Commissioners sitting
with a little hook in his hand, ready to stop any attor-
ney who might perchance be about to retreat without
remembering to pay the IL note. lie wished they
could see the manner in which this was pocketted as if
it were a God-send; and their anxiety to see if the two
hews were expired at the end of which they gut their
fee, and how they endeavoured to get up a meeting by
which they might obtain another. It was, in short, an
exhibition most disgusting to men of character and
feeling. The law appeared to be, in fact, administered
in opposition to the suiter cases in all their different
gradations and stages of inquiry, from the first meeting
to the final audit of the accounts, they were all carried
ort in the same place, and amid,t the most deperate
clamour, no Judge presided, no principle was recog-
nised. If he had not already trespassed too long upon
the time of the House, he would proceed to delineate
the character of that Court; he would read, in proof
of the uncertainty that prevailed in that Court, an ex-
tract from the work of Mr. Montague, who was him-
self a Commissioner of Bankrupts. (The Learned
Gentleman here read an extract from Mr. Montague's
work, descriptive of the state of the Court). He then
proceeded to say that the Attorney-General had ob-
served, that no plan had been suggested. He was not
one of those who was favourable to the reception of
, complaints, unless accompanied by some adequate re-
medy. He was no party man, nor ever bad been, and,
therefore, the House could not suppose him to be ac-
tuated by party feelings in what he had to say. With
respect to suggesting a plan, were any one to set them•
selves to guess one it would be impossible that he should,
even by any perversion, to stumble upon a worse than
that which existed. He would suggest a plan, how-
ever, which, if not the best in the world, was, at least,
infinitely superior to the present. It was this, that,
instead of seventy-two Judges, who, from the cir-
cumstances under which which they were placed,
were as little capable of getting through their load
of businei:, as an H, nourable and Learned Gentleman
“ought," that five Judges should be appointed with liberal
salaries, one to preside in each Court ; and that 2111
causes, instead of coming before the fourteen Courts,
shoul I be only brought before the fives Cases would
then be brought under the notice individually, and
from the ex reme simplicity of the Bankrupt Laws, and
from the complete knowledge of them usually possessed
by mercantile men, he was of opinion, that no appeal
would be necessary; but still there ought to be a power
of appeal, and that it might be made with most ad-
vantage to three out of five of tbose Judges, and from
them an ultimate appeal might be made to the Lord
Chancellor. He was convinced that there would be
scarcely ten appeals in the course of the year to the Lord
Chancellor. He was anxious to explain Iris motives for
a motion which be had 'Omitted to the House, for a
return of the annual amount of fees in matters of
bankruptcy (we understood the Learned Gentleman to
say), for the last fourteen years. Astonishment had been
expressed at what was deemed his bold assertion, that
those fees amounted last year to 32,0001. 15s. Id. but in
the result, to which he wished to call the attention of
the House, it was proved that they actually did amount
to 32,2121. Ils. 2d. He was anxious to explain his sno-
tives, because he believed some Hon. Gentleman on
that occasion had left the House with an impression
that he had asserted that 20,00 W. out of that sum had
gone into the pocket of the Lord Chancellor. It bad,
been stated by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman oppo- '
site, that all these things were to be rectified by the,
Noble and Learned Lord who pre,ides in the
Court of Chancery, in a manner so satiafactory to the
public, and so honourable to himselE He (sir. Harvey)'
was willing to hoots for everything from the new Go-
vernment. The nation, he believed, expected much from
them. They had succeeded in reaching the summit of sue
cess ; but if they imagined that the country could be de-
luded into a submission to their Government, without
reaping some corresponding benefit, the Gentlemen
would be much delude d thensselves. Many questions
which pressed for discussion had been deferred; but this
was not one a hich could be so treated. Were we•now
to be told, that those one hundred and eight proposi-
tions, which had been the subject of one hundred and
eighty-eight eulogiums, were to be all set aside, and
that nothing was wanted but that the Chancellor should
interpose with a few regulations, and that all de,layv
were to cease for ever? if any man's judgment
was so slender as to believe this, he (Mr. Harvey)
would believe that party madness might be cartied to
a most extravagant length ; but he thought the persop
who could so believe was a very fit subject for the loisseic,
department of the Chancellor's jurisdiction. The in-
quiry should be mote extensive Mao hid hem hitherto
proposed. Abut arid law were synonymosts terpss
There were 6,000 cerofic ited ;loonies, who received pr.
an average 1,0001. a year each; so that in this way

alone 6,000,0004 were paid to the profession, which set
this complicated machinery in motion. the Hon 'ur
able Member, after some other observations, concluded
by supporting the minion.
The ATTORNEY-0 KNERAT. expjakied.
Mr. G. BANKAS denied that tbe.statement of the
Hon. Member for o,olchester, respecting the way in
which the Commissioners transicted the business, was
correct; and with respect to the efficiency of the Com-
ntissioners. he would refer the House to the appoint- '
meats which had been made during the present. year.
IHe was not at all opposed to inquiry, on principle; but
he maintained, that to appoint a Committee at tliat time
would not be treating the new Lord Chancellor with
justice. He should therefore oppose the motion.
Dr. LUSHINGTON could not agree that it would
be a benefit either to the creditors or to the, bank-
roots to take from the Lord Chancellor the jurisdic-
tion of finally judging between them. He could not
consent to the introduction of any. Plan which, would
go to destroy the uniformity of decieon, and that wai
his reason for objecting to the motion for depriving
the Great Seal of the jurisdiction over Bankrupt Pe-
titions. He agreed, however, that the present system
,required revision and total reformation. The 72„Com-
rnissioners was the most monstrous and absurd contri-
vance ever thought of. The Hon. Member for Col-
chester had not stated the case too strong; but he
did not believe that any one of the Commissioners had
been guilty of making business to put money in his
own pocket. The plan, however, of the Hon. Member
for the appointment of five Judges instead of the present
Commissioners was not new. It was touched upon in
the Report, but Sir A. Hart and himself, being the only
two of the Commissioners who thought the bankruptcy
business came within the scope of the Commission, no
recommendation Was formally made. But although
the Commissioners did not investigate the subj-ct, that
was no reason why the House should nor, and although
he could not agree to the mo ion of his Hon.i Friend, the
Member for Durham, he would readily support any
Hon. Member, who would bring forward a specific
plan for the improvement of the present pricece. He
must say, however, that he thought the Sessioh too far
advanced for anything advantage sus to be effected.—
He was inclined to repose as much confidence in Lord
Lyndhurst as any person reasonably could ; but he
could not. consent to rely on a casual expression of
that Noble Lord, and indeed it was impossible he
should do so. They were told the Bill of the Noble
Lord was nut to be prosecuted, and the whole change
was to be from Lord'Eldon to Lord Lyndhurst. For
his own part he did not believe it possible for the Noble
Lord to effect what was required. He should be con-
tent t.i wait till the next Session to see the result of the
experiment, but not longer. But there was one thing
which he deprecated above all others, and that was the
Lord Chancellor having recourse to an injudicious haste
—(Hear, hear!) Such a measure might at first pm-
duce apparent benefit, but the mischief would ultimately
be incalculable—(Hear, hear I) Let the Noble and
Learned Lord on the Woolsack endeavour to subdue
the arrear of !ntions, but if he could not do so with
justice to the suitortlet him acknowledge the fact.
At the request of Mr. lhottanass, the S.•Eassa read the motion.
Mr. BROUGHAM said he was not deceived; the
motion was to the effect he had imagined, He had not
doubted the truth of the impression on his mind when
he heard the opening speech of his Hon. and Learned
Friend, or when he heard that of the Hon. and Learned
Attorney-General ; and he was astonished to find the
Hon. Member for Colchester launching into a new sub-
ject. For what he knew the Bankrupt Laws might be
very simple, and it might he very right that the House
should inquire into the way in which they were admi-
nistered, but the question then before it was simply
this—Shall or shall not the jurisdiction in bank-
ruptcies be taken from the Great Seal? and shall
the House with a view to the consideration of such
a Resolution appoint a Committee to inquire int,i
the Acts which attach to the Great Seal the autho-
rity it pos esses on that pariicolar subject. That was
not an unnecessary limit to the debate, for although
he had heard no remarks of asperity, he had been for a
short time absent from the House, and he was informed
that during such temporary absence some such had
been indulged its by the Hon. Member for Colchester.
He denied that he, or any of those Hon. Gentlemen who
had changed their seats, and were to vote with him that
night, were guilty of the slighest inconsistency in ob-
jecting to the motion before the House. He and they
had advocated an enquiry into the Court of Chancery ;
and he asked them what impropriety or whit incon-
sistency they could be accused of, if they did not vote
for the separation of the jurisdiction in baokruptcies
from the Great Seal? Neither lie nor any Honour-
able Gentleman on his side of the House ohje:ted
to an inquiry into the Court of Chancery. But they
had told him that a most extraordinary change had
taken place in some of the Honourable Gentlemen who
sat on his side of the House, and that all the torrents of
fiery declamation which they had poured forth were
now subdued even into eulogy. Now, mark the fairness
of this attack. The only Member who had made the ob-
servation was his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-
General. And what torrents of abuse might he ask, fier y
or otherwise, had he ever uttered ? He recollected no
instance in which he had said anything disrespectful of
the Lord Chancellor or his Court. It was true, how-
ever, that he (Mr. Brougham) had taken a prominent
part in all the discussions upon the subject. He kneW,
therefore, the meaning of the sarcasm of the Honour-
able Member, not born the person who uttered it,
but from those by whom it war so loudly cheered.
He did not'know why the prophecy should have been
hazarded, that he was now about to vote differently
from what be had done on former occasions. What
opinions bad he 'changed in changing Isis side of the
House, either of public measures, or of men, or of
Judges? He demanded to know who accused him of
haviog changed his principles? Let them have charges,
and not mean insinuations, which was the basest mode
of propagating slander. He was an example of a change
of place in that House without a change of principles;
and those who retained their former places Were exam-
ples either of change of principles or of extreme vague•
ness of Pr:ociple. But to return to the subject; he had
never beep an advocate for separating the be okrUpf juris-
dictioe from the Court of Chancery. i-lbirleiidsis4. Te
divided in their opinion of that measure; but be had 1
4ways been Apposed to it, and he opposed it upon nearly
ihe same grounds as those upon which he, in common
1 wilt[ *learned and inestimable pet son now oats:tong ly
not arms them, had opposed tite.Vice-Chancellor's t.
fie 1,14414 to the recollection of his Hon. f 1 iiend i e
was east eorgeet in this asset tion. And alter the appoi -
meat of the Veal...chancellor his argument had alaraiys'
seen teat thKotitt pf Chancery had not b. en allowed tint.
Asi.One or the other of its Judges had always been

an incrtnpetent pet nn. When Sr Vs'ilParn Crant was
Master of the Rolls, Sir Thomas Plumtr was Vices
Chancellor. a Gentleman who, with the highest gene-
al and the 'molt exalted' character, was
:yet adniiited on all bands to have been incapable of
getting through much Chancery: business. Then, tin
the appointment of the able VrcesChancellor, Sir John
Leach, Sir Thomas Plainer had become Master of the
Rolls. He would hot retract any of the praises he
had formerly bestowed 'upon the Lord Chabeeller
Eldon, although another artist had thought proper to
use the trowel and plaster him with praise. But, allow.
ing in the fullest manner the talents of the Npblle
Lord, there would be no more than two Anent
Judges of the Court of Chancery. ' Then, another
change took place, and Loyd Gifford became the
Mast:r of the Rolls, of whom he would now sal,.
'as fie had said before, "due although he possessed
the most amiable Tialities, with great legal -ac-
quirements, and with talents which, in their proper
sphere, Would have adorfied him, and the profession to
which he belonged, yet, in the new sphere eon which
he entered, at the age of forty, he had not strewn the
same abilities as Sir William Grant, and the other
eminent Chancery Judges. He would make them
remember his former line of argument. He had said,
dolt tell me of the system, the fault is in the men. And
he now, in perfect consistency said, you have got new
men, let them have a fair trial. Mr. Sliadwell, in his
evidence before the Commission, had said that three
angels would not be competent to het through the bu-
siness of the Court of Chancery. His argument upon this
assertion had, perhaps, not been entirely forgotten.' He
had said, give them three men, three competent Judges,
let them not invoke the aid of superior beings till human
means had failed. Let them try threz ruch .14(1)3e5-es
he had described, before they changed the system. He
appealed to his Hon. Friend, he appealed to the Hon.
and Learned Member for Tregnny, if this was not the
course of his argument. An opportunity was now feir
the first time afforded of trying the effect of the V ce
Chancellor's Bill. They had now three Chancery, Judges.
The Hon. and Learned Gentleman here warmly ealo-
gized the present Master of the Rolls, Vice Chancellor,
and Lord Chancellor, although fie admitted his want
of practice in Chancery htisinels to be some disadvan-
tage. He did not say, however, join the affairs of Bank-
ruptcy and of Chancery indissolubly—let them be
wedded for better and for worse—he only said wait for
a year. He' knew that the present Lord Chancellor,
by a simple rule of Court, limiting the period at whiCh
affidavits on each side must be filed, intended' to get rid
of that system of eternal accumulation cf evidence whicl
made the floor of the Court groan, and the suitors still
more deeply under the load of affidavits. It was in-
cumbent upon the House to see what could he effected
by the Noble and Learned Lord and his able assi•tants,
who were deter mined to bejudices a judicrando, and not
jadices a nun judicaido. Let them try, and if they
failed, let the proposition be renewed ne.t year, which
now he could not but think premature. This was his
opinion, and not only his, but that of the Noble and
Learned Lord at the head of the Court of Chancery. That
Noble individual said, let us try for a year, and if we do
not succeed, then separate bankruptcy from the Great
Seal. The Hon. and Learned Member then proceeded
to •indicate the profession of the law from. over-
siens'which had be n cast open tr. For himself be liattiaed
upon the_e aspersions—he would n e no other than
Parliamentary language, and therelne would not say
with contempt—but with the most perfect indifference.
Bat when he heard attempts to cast a stain upon the
character of his Hon. and Learned Friend, ...horn he
had known for a quarter of a century, he would say
in the hearing both of those friends in whom he rej ,icsd,
and of his enemies, for even he had enemies, that he
had a title which lie would retain, if his officious tide
should be lost, to look down with contempt upon inch
insinuations. He had led a life of exclusion from pro-
fessional rank by adherence to hit political' principles._
Was it in that House that they were to hear the pro-
fession of the Law treated as a degraded pro'ession ?
The greatest men that House had ever known hed been
proud to hold association with Lawyers. There was
no class of men to whom the Constitution owed a deeper
debt of gratitude, than to the Laa yens, who in that
and the other House of Parlian*nt had struggled to
establish and to maintaitfit. The Hon. and Le 'rued
Member here launched out into an elaborate eulogy of
all the eminent Lawyers who had flottrishedinEngland
from Sir E. Coke to Sir A. Piggott. To describe that
honourable profession as prone to political subser-
viency or corruption, was one of the most vulgar,
false, sordid, and ignorant fallacies wh ch ever had
been hatched. He trusted he should be ex-used for
attempting to rescue the Profession from the odium
which had been cast upon it, and he had made this
attempt] not from his respect to the authority from
which the aspersion had now proceeded, but because
on other occasions he had heard censure directed towards
the Profession, which went to confound it with a h +fever
was most polluted in political life. He had deemed it
necessary to say thus winch 'in vindication of the Pro•
fession, and in defence of his Hon. and Learned Friend,
who, if not its highest, was one of its brightest ornaments.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR briefly replied. He regretted
to say, that those who had on former occasions sup-
ported his views, then deserted him. The present Lord
Chantellor might be a very able man, but all must ac-
knowledge that he labours under the defect of having
derived all his professional experience from a Court
of Common Law.

Tbe House then divided, when the numbers appeared—
. Ayes 57

. 134

Majority against the motion . 97.
COVENTRY ELECTION.

Sir J.WROTTESLEY, pursuant to notice, ks Chair-
man of the Committee on the late Coventry Election
'Petition, brought forward his motion relative to the
conduct of the Magistrates and Corporation of that city
during that election. The Hon. Baronet entered into a
long statement of the proceeding's of the above parties
at the election, for the purpose of obstructing the voters
of Mr. Ellice and Mr. Moore; shewing that the result
of that election was mainly attributable to the illegal
and violent interference Of the constables appointed by
the Corporation. These constables in the most violent
manner impeded the efforts of Mr. Ellice's friends
AS much as they unduly facilitated the exertions of
his opponents. The Hon. Baronet quoted at great
length instances of abuse and misconduct on the part of
the persons implicated at,the last Election. The con-
duct of the Mayor of Coventry was so reprobated in
the Codusittee, that' they at one time wished to re-
commend the House to 'send him to Newgate. He
concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill to
gk'fc tOR Magistrates of the county of Warwick a co 1-
4curreiltjortidlciiiits with 'the Magistrates of Cotanirit
I, •

NOP_