Star.
London, England, 1803-03-22 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, MONDAY, MARCH 21.

The feeeral 1 Ilk on the 'rabic w;:re each forwarded a flay.
Mr. Ai silt soca, and wher;,bruught up foreral Bills from
the Common., which were •cad a hit time.

ARTIFICERS IN HIS MAJESTY'S DOCK-YAKDS.

Lord CARLISLE lule ind laid, that on a former
day he had, in ord,:i that it might not be filppored
he wilitcd to take the Honk by. furprife, given no.
rice of the nature of the motion which he meant
lubmit to the consideration of the Houfe. As
he did not fnlipefe there could he any ferious ob-
jeftion to his Motion, he fhould not trefpafs much
on their Lrildfliips' time in explaining the nature
:Lod intent of it, nor of tiling any arguments by
way of ohviatirz chjeiftions that might poffibly be
uigcd againd it. If, however, any arguments
ilto,Ad be brott7,ht forward, which he thought of
'•weight, by way of °pp( fition to his Motion, he
fhutod claim the anal indulgence given by the
HOlll2, of being allowed to (peak a fecond time.
His blajedy's Minifters boatled of enjoying the
confidence of Patliament, hut he was confident
they did not poffefs that of the public ; they had
not yet been tried by a verdia of their country,
though the time could not he far diftant when they
molt render an account of the reafons for the very
contradi&nry conduit they had purfued in the
enurfe of the 'aft eighteen months. He confeffed
the ultimate oWieft of his motion would be to
ground an enquiry into their conduit at a future
period. He then moved, "'That the proper Offi-
cer of his Majelly's Dock-yards do lay before the
Houle a Monthly Return of the Artificers em-
ployed in the feveral Dock-yards, and that fuch
Returns be made out from the IR of May, 1802."

Lord HOBART lamented that the Noble Lord at
the head of the Admiralty was prevented, by in.
difpofition, from attending in his place, as any
thing coming from him, on a fubjce of this
na-
ture, mutt have more authority with their Lord-1
(hips than what might come through the medium
of himfell. The Noble Lord who brought for-1
I ward this Motion, allowed that his Majefly's Mi.
nillers polrelied the confidence of Parliament, but
aliened, that they-had not the confidence of the
I Public. He was proud to think they did pofiefs
the confidence of Parliament, and had no reafon
to fuppofc the public confidence was net equally
in their favour : true, indeed, they had not been
tried by a verdia of their country, but let the
trial come when it would, he, for one, would be
ready to meet it. As to the Motion of the Noble
Lord, he could only fay, that as his Lordfhip had
not given any one reafon why it Mould be agreed
to, he fbould think hinifelf very much wanting
in his duty, as one of his Majefly's prefent Admi-
nittration, if he did not refill it at a moment like
the prefent.
The Earl of CARLISLE laid, he did not think it
would have been necelfary for him to trouble their
Lordfbips a fecond time on his prefent Motion.
He thought, however, that it was necelfary, as a
preparatory (Lep, to enquire into the conduct of
his Majefly's Minillsrs. In the courfe df the
eighteen months their proceedings had been fo
very contradiftory, fometimes fending orders to
give up places, then Vining others to retain them
—fometimes calling on the country to arm—then
again to difarm—arid all this without making any
communications, that, in his mind, a fever, en—
quiry ought to be fet onfoot, to fee how far they
had been juftified in what they had done, and
whether, at the time they were aeing foineeinfil
tently, they were employing fuch a number of
Artificers in the Dock-yards as were fufficient to
guard us from any ferious inconveniencies which
thefe irrefolute and changeable proceedings might
draw us into. The Noble Secretary had not faid
one word that tended to repel his Motion, though
he refilled it; and, therefore, he had a right to
perfia in it, though, did he conceive it could
have any ill dice, by impeding the meafores of
Government, he lbould be one of the laft perfons
to prefs it.

Lord GRENVILLE laid, he role for the purpofe
of advifing his Noble Friend, at the prefent mo-
ment, to withdraw his Motion: He allowed the
jutlice of the arguments ufed by his Noble Friend
in fupport of it ; was equally fenfible of the mil*.
chievous tendency of the irrefolute and changeable
conduEt of his Majeßy's Minitiers, who, in the
courfe of the fall eighteen months, had called on
the nation to arm, to difarm, and then to arm
again, without once deigning in all that time to
give Parliament or the Nation the frnalleft infor-
' minion why they did fo. He was equally aware
of the great unheard•of, and unprecedented le-
-11 onfibility which Miniflers had chofen to take upon
themfelves, from the line of condo& they had pur-
fued—a refpoi.fibility and condo& which mull, at
no very distant time, he enquired into in a mnft fe-
rinus manner: yet, at fuch a period and crifis as
the piefent, he would with to avoid every thing
which might have the fmallell tendency to rade
any difficulties that might impede his Majeßy's
service, or to thwart thole exertions which it had
been thought prudent and necelfary to make at the
prefent moment. He hoped, therefore, his Noble
Friend would Mien to his requell, and agree to
ss ithdraw his Motion.

Lord CAR LisLc Paid, that whenhe gave notice
of his motion, and, in the mirk of what he had
laid on it, he had declared, lie thought it would
lin any degree impede nr inconvenience his Ma.
jelly's fersice, he would be the Ia 1 perfon to pro-
j pole it • and as his Noble Friend thought it might
have that tendency. and advifcd him to withdraw
i., lie hoped their Lordlhips would permit him to
do ft), and moved that he might have leave to
wididiaw it accordingly.
Lord PiLHAM laid, he did not rife to oppofe
the Noble Earl's withdrawing his motion, but beg-
ged their Lordlhips' attention to a few Ihort ob-
fervations on what had fallen from the two Noble
j Lords who fpoke Taft. The Noble Lord who made
jrhe motion had not advanced one word to thew
the grounds on which it (hotild be acceded to ;
and in a cafe of that kind, he thought very tlrong
reaforn indeed iliniil.l be (hewn before fuch a mo.
lion was attended to. The Noble Peer who had
ativii?.d that the motion (hoold he withdrawn, had
.1 I • 1 :
LUC,. ln. ..• j .::).$ iirrS not haviii:; given

any information to Parliament In the eourfe of
eighteen months. He hegea the Honfe and that
Noble Lord to recolleft, that his Majelty's prefent
Minifters had made peace with the Northern
Powers, and alto with France, two events of the
greatcft importance, on both which they had given
Parliament the molt a:uple information, and in
confequence of which, he believed, they had re-
ceived, both the confidence of Parliament, and
of the public alfo. Indeed, he believed his Ma-
jetty's Minifters had never withheld or kept back',
any information, but when they were fully con-
vinced their duty abfolutely required them to be
fluent.
Lord GREN•ILLE, in explanation, Paid, that the
Noble Lord had alluded to two events to which no
part of his obfervations refpefting want of intorma.
tint could apply, as he expretsly confined himfelf
to eighteen months, in which he raid all niform i-
dols had been withheld, and thole events took place
come time before.
The LORD CHANCELLOR left the Woollick, and
laid he did to for the porde of fopporting the
Noble Lord's motion, for leave to withdraw the
original motion which he then held in his hand.
From the very words and nature of fuch a motion
he Ihould conceive, that, according to the old and
eflablifhed ufage of Parliament, the perfon making
fuch a motion ought to bring forward fome ftrong
and weighty reafon why he did fo, in order to in-
duce the Houle to accede to it. The Noble Earl
who made that motion, had not advanced one
fingle word that had a tendency to fupport it, but
contented himfelf with raying, that nothing had
been advanced by his Majelty's Minifters to repel
the motion. There was no need for them to ad-
vance arguments to repel it ; it was fufficient to
refill it on the ground of no reafon being advanced
to found it on. As to the arguments which had
been brought forward refpefting confidence, he
hoped Parliament would continue that confidence
till the conduft of Minifters fhould evince they no
longer deferved it ; and as to what had been laid
of their not enjoying the confidence of the public,
he had feen nothing which tended to make liins
believe it, more than the general affertions of the
Noble Lord, that fuels a meafure was not ap-
proved ; and of another, that he did not approve
time other meafure. His Lordfhip admitted, that
the prefent adminiftration were liable to the bulk ft
refponfibility on account of the meafures they had
purfued ; and as to the complaint of want of in-
formation, he was Pure he could anfwer for it that
his Majelty's Minifters had never refufed to give
Parliament any information that might be requir-
ed; but they were confcientioufly convinced, that
it was their duty to their King and country to be
filent, and that an oppofite line of condo& mull
be highly mifchievous and prejudicial to the wel-
fare and molt effential interefts of the Empire.—
His Lordfhip then put the queftion, and the ori-
ginal motion was withdrawn.—Adjourned.