Star.
London, England, 1817-02-25 00:00:00

PLIBLIC DISTREM.

The Earl of DARNLEY, Wore the Hence pre-
code -1, to the Order of the Day, wished to call their
Lordships' attention for a few moments to a subject
of considerable importance at this period of public
c;stetts. At the commencement of the Session he
regretted that the Ministers of the Crown had not
advised his Royal Highness the Prince Regent to
oske some sacrifice as an offering to the wants of the
country,.with the view of relieving, in some degree,
ire rressure of the public expenditure, and he had
intended to make tome motion upon the subject.
Since that period his Royal Highness had been ad-
visod to sacrifice t 6 ,the public. exigencies a part of
the sum ailotted for the maintenance of the splendour
of his station, and this offer, so highly satislsctory to
the country, has been followed by a • sacrifice on the
past el a Noble Friend of his (the Marquis Camden)
of the chief past of the emoluments of his office. He
wished to know from some of the Noble Lords op-
posite, whether these examples had been followed by
other instances of the sacrifice of emolument towards
the relief of the public burdens ? He was convinced
that nothing short of the greatest possible retrench-
ment and economy would now satisfy the public, and
he was anxious to know what had been done by the
holders of office.
Lord ROLLE reminded the Noble Earl, that the
example of his Royal Highness had been followed
by all his Ministers. who had voluntarily given up
d.e tenth of their incomes.
Lord GREY did not think the country Had called
on his Majesty's Ministers to make the sacrifice of a
tenth" of their income, the voluntary tax which they
had laid upon themselves, or did he think the cotm-
try ought to accept it. The country did not wish to
reduce the salaries they had paid for efficient ser-
vices ; whit was asked -was that useless sinecures
should be abolished. He trusted this sacrifice would
yet be made-to the distresses of the people, and that
Parliament would not be turned from demanding
that measure by the circumstance of the efficient
servants of the public, who were not too well paid,
having voluntarily, imposed a tax on themselves, .
toeDoit totton soeirev.
Earl GROSVENOR rose to present a petition to
their Lordthips, whichi_lit trotted, would not only
out "...sod Wad meet with that serious
coneferation to which, in hi:opinion, it was entitled&
The petition was from the same percon from whom
the petition brought up and rejected on Friday last
was presented.—The petition was • then brought up
and read. It was in substance nearly the same as
that which we gave in our Paper of Saturday, except
that it omitted the passages which were there objected
to- It stated the time when. the Society was formed
—the names of its founders, and asserted that it had
never at any time any correspondence, verbal or
written, with any branch or other Society whatsoever,
antt thatfor.the last three years and a halt it had
ceo4ed to set at all.
. Lord 'HARROWBY defended die Report of the
Benet Committee from the charge of inaccuracy ad-
dend it by Lord Grosvenor. He denied
that the Report imputed to the L,ondost elem of
holding, the Spencein doctrine ; the 'unit of the
„Report did not warrant such a charge qv** the
London Union, nor did the Committee intesdnimuld
tlo so.---r(Heer, hear.) . . .
Lord GRENVILLE thought the earlint oppor-
tunity should be taken to acknowledge error if error
existed, and it the Report had been **drawn np as to
convey a wrong impression into the world, their Lord-
ships should lose no time 'in correcting that error.
The Committee, certainly, bid not intended to say
that the London Union were supporters of the Spen-
ceans; whether it be true that the London Union is
dissolved, or that it exists, the Noble Lord said he
knew not; but in the minutes of the Sheffield Union
Society was found an entry that the purposes of the
Vie (field Union were to correspond with the London
Union, aqd other branch Societies, The Sheffield
Union established in October last, declared its object
to be to correspond. with the London Union. Was
ft then wonderful that the Committee should be led
to suppose the London Union still continued, and still
Continued to act ; and that the documents upon which
the Committee made the assertion, were such as rens
dcred that assertion well founded ? He was ready to
acknowledge that no proof of correspondence between
the London and Sheffield Union had been proved ;
but at the same time he also felt bound to say, that
in his opinion thete might be cooperation without
correspondence.
Earl GREY did nbt Mean to accuse the Commit-
tee of stating to the Hone any evidence which did
not exist, or or drawing any infeteoce which, in their
the evidence did not warrant; but he now
said, as he said on a former night, that the House
Aught jo be careful how they receive existent evi-
dence; much less ought the House to proceed to pass"
laws on wise* evidence, which were, for the time,
to suspend the liberties of the Subject:: What, he
would ask, was the injury of which this eniticourrs
had to complain ? No less than the having hupu-
ted to them, that they are united and corresponding
l'ith other Clubs, whme object was to overturn ..the
Present Government. Was not this Secretary to the
London Pylon very materially aggrieved ? And
night he not to be allowed toitrxxElaine at the Bar of
the House, what **me at moiety was I

Now, when O,e House was about ia pass ti Bill byl
which the Habeas Corpus Ace was to. suspended,
and by which persons corresponding with Societies,
or Branch Societies, would be made liable to fine
and imprisonment, and even to transportation. should
not the Commicee have made further inquiry before
they adopted the decision they had done ? The Com-
mittee should, in conunon caution, hate made in-
quiries as to the nature of the London Union. And
it was the duty of the Secretary of State who laid
these Papers before the Committee, to have made
that investigation. The Noble Lord (Grenville)
had acknowledged that there was n s correspondence
proved. The petitioner now offered to prove, that
the London Union had nt. existed fur the last three
years, therefore there could not be any co operation
between them and the Shedieid Society. Ile believed
also he might state, that there was now a letter in
the House. written by the Lord Mayor (whose con-
deer, on a I.' te occasion, proved that he was no friend
of Clubs,- or enemy of the. Constitution) stating, that
since the discussion on Friday evening, be and Mr.
Alderman Goodbehere had examined the books of
the Society, and chat they were ready to come for-
ward at thetas of the Hotise, and depose to the
truth of all that. was stated in the Petition. Under
these circumstances, he thought the petition should
be received; and the Committee, if diss,,lvekl, again
appointed ; and the petition referred to theni for their
examination ; and that till they had done so, the fur-
ther proceedings upon the Bill now before the House
should be suspended. Unless this should be done,'
he was convinced the country would not be satisfied
of the necessity sf the important measure they were
about to adopt.
Lord LIVERPOOL wished to state why; al-1
though be had not altered his opinion since this sub-
ject was before the House, he thought the present peti-
tion ought to be rec.ived.
,The Petition op Friday re-
ferred to a Report of a hich, the House contended,
the Petitioner could have no legiainate knowledge.
,The present Petition did, not refer to that Report.
The former Petition prayed against a measure which
the -Petitioner supposed the House was about to
adopt; 'the present was against a Bill now an pro-
gress, and therefore was regular. These reasons in-
duced him to be in favour of receiving the present
Petition, though he opposed the former Petition.
With respect to the Report, it stated the conspiracy'
not to be its these Clubs and Societies, but in thel
Meeting; of the 15th cf November and 2d of Decem-
ber, in Spa-fields, and that these Clubs, by their prin-
ciples, tended to forward this object ; that they all
leaded to weaken the allegiance of the subject to the
' State, and to; destroy the ,bond between the governor
and the governed. The Report did not,, however,
impute to all of these Societies the same evil inten-
tions; on the contrary, the Report said, that whilst
some of these Clubs adopted the dangerous principles
of the Spencean Philanthropists, ,many of the mem-
bers of the other. Clubs Were actuated by the best
thotiees. The Nub* Lord then proceeded to defend
the Report as regarded the Landon Union, sad read
an article of their regulations, which was the same as
one of the articles of the Sheffield Society, recom-
mending Branch Societies. It was now said, that
the London Union had not met for three years and
a half ; why, it was obvirins to every one that this
very Society had assembled within the last six weeks,
though under auother title. On the 211 of January
a meeting of Delegates, with the same Secretary, Mr.
Cleary, and the same Chairman, Major Casrigist
r.
who were Chairman and *Secretary to the t okonsto
1842, assembled for the purpose of considering the
same objects, anhual Parliaments
.and universal suf-
frage—Vicar, Ayer.) The object
.wets the same. the
persons were the same, whether under the title of
Union Of Hampden Clubs, namely, to disturb the,
4taqpßiey, and, if possible, to destroy the Govern-.
eut'rirtys country; and that the grand central sta•o
ties; Niee: which all the operations of the Branches
sprung, was in Landon—(Hear, hear.)
Lord HOLLAND said, the question was not
•-
now' whether clubs existed or not, Lut whether, after
the Committee had reported upon ea parte evidence,
they should examine , whether the evidence they
had heard and decided upon wat true t He knew
nothing about these clubs, whether their objects were
good or bad. He siraa,ready to acknowledge the
truth of all that had been stated, but at the same
time he would ask their Lordships whether, to recon-
cile the people to the measure now proposed, it would
not be'desirous also to convince them,. as far as pos-
sible. of the necessity of it He understood that the
grounds on which, the Noble Lord opposed the re-
ception of the Petition on Friday night was, that it
was contrary to a standing order of the House—a
standing order, of the existence of which half their
Lordships were ignorant. • Yet he understood now,
wiken a lkw was about to be passed to suspend the
Mule's of the people, the most important standing
order of the House. which said. no Bill should be
forwarded more than one stage irea day, was about
to be dispensed with, and this most important Bill,
was to be forwarded four stages in one day.' He
trusted the House would not do this ; and that before
they proceeded to commit this outrage on the Con-
stitution, they would instruct the Committee to ob-
tain and lay before them further information.
Lord ERSKINE thought no two cases could,
differ more than did the case at present and that in
1795. If be was asked what he would consent to
suspend upon the infoematioo which he was now is,
Possession of, he would say. be would suspend no-
tOing but his judgment—(llene, hear.) In 1795 there
wart Ali organized system for the appointment of a
Coneentivo'which was to assume ill the functions of .
Par) tit Was such the case no*l certainly not.
Ai preiebi there was eery of annual Parliaments and
univeral Suffrage. Did this cry require the suspension
of the 'Habeas Osiers Act ? There weisathe Spell'
ceans—did they require the suspension of the Habeas
Corpus ? No, they rather required the erection
of a number of receptacles for inidinees Wither,
• spool to the blasphemous libels which were phhiliPill
. .

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the law as it at present stood was sufficient to repress
them. If their Lordships refused to hear evidence,
they were doing what he was sure would, to say the%
least, not give that sitisfaction which their decisioisi•
sh,,uld always give to the country--(11:34 hear.)
The petition he had the honour and pleasure ot' pre-
senting from Glasgow, contained, he believed, the
names of almost all the Societies in that city. Were
their Lordships prepared to say that all these, twenty-
five thousand individuals, were patties to the conspi-
racy ? (Hear, hear, hear.) He implored, them to
c..nsider, to hear all sides of the question, before they
presumed to do what was contrary to the genius and
spirit of the British Constitotion. Alive to the in-
terests of his county—alive to every thing where li-
berty, that best and dearest privilege, was concerned,
lie implored them to beware of
.precip!tation, and to
remember what they owed 'to themselves, to their
country, and to succeeding generations The Noble
Lord concluded by expressing his hopes that their
Lordships would allow evidence lobe beard.
On the.questiin being pot for laying the Petition
on the table,

Lord GREY moved, us an amendMent, that the'
Petition should be referred to a Committee formed
of the same Lords who constituted the Secret Com-
mittee, who should consider thereof, and report to
the Hoase.—Upon this amendment,
The House divided, For the original Motion 74
For the Amendment o—Majority 51.
When we were again adru.ried, the Clerk was
reading a Petition from Mr. Huila., justifying himself
and the Meeting of the 9.4 of December, and denying
that there %vete any disaffected motives on the part
of titeMeeting ; that they assembled for the purpose
of petitioning legally for Parliamentary Reform, and
had no connection whatever with the mob. The
Petition further denied that the individuals who had
' been denominated Delegates from Ciubs were such,
but they were persons deputed from the People ge.
nerally, to forward and support the object of Parlia-
mentary Reform; that their Meeting was open, and
persons connected with Newspapers were admitted,
and all the proceedings of the Meeting were wade
public. The Petitioner concluded by praying hr
might be ailowed to attend at the Bar, and prove
the allegations of his Petition.
The Petition, after a few words ,from Lord HOL-
LANDS was ordered to he on the table.
SUSPENSION oe THE HABEAS CORPUS ACT.
Lord SIDMOUTH said, whatever difference of
opinion there might be with respect to the present
measure, or to others that might be pioposed, he was
confident that they could not have read 'and reflected
on the Report, without feeling the deepest regret.--
It had been twice complained of by the Noble Earl
(Grosvenor), that the Report was presented unac-
companied by the'evidence on which it it was found-
ed ; but he was convinced that the Conimittee, so
far from meeting with censure ',pan that account,
would receive the approbation of the House. Tidi'
intention of the Committee was. to pronounce con-
closions and results,rnot to afford information. The
information on which they' proceeded to form those
conclusions and results was, to a considerable extent,
necessarily of a sectet nature. It would be imps'.
sible to lay the whole before Parliament, without
hazarding, in the greatest degree, the individuals
upon whose information they rested, and would
also be injurious to the proceedings themselves.—
The documeats which they had properly abstained
ifroor giving io the form of an Apperidirt; could not
properly be heard. In the Report there were three
prominent propositions:—First, the evidence left no
doubt upon the Committee that a traitorous conspi-
racy was in existence.—Secondly, that it was not con.
fowl to the capital, but extended generally through
the country—and Thirdly, that some twitter procvi-
'ions were necessary to protect' the Constitution. It
WAS impossible to read this statement without feeling
She utmost degree.of grief and shame that such facts
should have occurred in this country, as to render
such a statement necessary. Alter the glorious
struggle through which we had passed, and at Km°.
meat when the- country stood so high amongst the
nations of the catch, it was grievous to think that a
conspiracy should have been formed for the overthrow
of our happy Constitution. For a long period of
years, since the French Revolution, a malignant
spirit had existed, which took advantage of all
calamities, and even of the dispensations of Thom,
Paravioascs, to excite discontent and insurrection.
During the war it was busied in representing the de-
feats of the enemies as victories, and the splendid
achievements of our own armies as defeats. Since
'the peace, a great degree of dilated had been felt ;
upon that it took advantage of the distress of the
country, and endeavoured to combine the physical
ffirce. against the existing establishments. It repre-
sented the distress not as arising from the miscon-
duct of the Ministers of theday, but from the defects
of the Constitution. Instead of saying that every
effort was mide for their relief, it appli d itseif to
avert and dissatisfy the minds of the people'; and in-
stead of inculcating upon them that nothing could be
done by acts of 'violence, ,it endeavoured to enlist.
them in the cause of revolution by the means alluded
to in the Report. It had been made a matter of re-
proach against the Government, that they diJ not in-
stittite prosecutions against the printers and publishers
of those seditious works; but he could assure the
House that Government had not tailed in their duty.
They had transmittedthese publications to the Law
Officers, who were of opinion that it would be info
nitely•more'clifficult to sustain prosecutions, in CON.
'sequels= of the artful manner in, which they were
drawn up, than upon ,any farmer occasion. Many
prosecutions, however, were now pending. Those
'seditious publications had been spread through the
country in a number and to an extent that was sur-
prising. Many persist* in those Clubs, who had
Przlianventary Reform in their months, bad revolt/.
2.z *air hearts, With respect to the adjourn-.
*bait was the fact t The lint disturbance of

••

' the•public peace took place on 'held of December,
On that and all subsequent occas;ens preoarat ons
bad been made adequate to the existing intentidn.
;Hit plan was first to employ the Civil Power, for he
never would lend himself to the principle of sobso-
tuting.the military, except in cases of the utmost no.-
' testify.- But he took ease th it the military should
be so disposed through the town as t 3 be ready to
give . their assistance wherever it was required.—
The coaseqiience was, that the riot in the City was
quelled in a few moments by a troop of Life Guards.
It was net deemed advisable to institute prosecutions
for high treason without the teroogest eroof of the'r
necessity; they therefore proceeded agatnst the indi-
viduals upon inferior charges. Government was
stated to have been informed of the conspiracy at thst
time, but in such an opinion the Noble Lords were
mistaken. The facts detailed in the Report; which
,marked the atrocious design of the Meetings, didvict
come to their knowledge until three weeks before tte
Meeting of Parliament. Proceedings were still geirig
on its furtherance 'of treasonable porposei, and the
Committee bad expressed a decided opinion that fur-
ther measures were necessary to put them down. It
was tot the wisdom of both Houses to consider what
thole further measures should he. That whith first
suggested Itself, was the necessity of affor.:ing addi-
tional protection to the Illustrious Person whose life
was exposed to danger on the first day of the Senior.
With this view it was proposed t,) revise the 86ih.
of the King, which originated in similar circisma
stances. A ..other object was to punish the attempts
of persons endeavouring to seduce soldiers and seilots
from their allegiance. It teas also necessary to bring
the clubs within the provisions of the 59-. ft the
King. in which the •London Corresponding and other
Societies were put down by name. It was also pro-
posed to renew a 11.11, the salutary effects of which
had been exr.erienced till 1805, for the prevention
of seditious meetings and assemblies. It belonged
to the Constitution to enlarge the powers of the Exe-
cutive in case of necessity ; and tie asked it now for
the security of Parliament, and in the spii it in which
the Habeas Corpus itrylf was passed, for the protec-
tion of the Cotstitution. He felt great satisfaction
in stating. that the measure was not intended to et-
tend to Ireland, but it was right to meet the energy
of the ill-disposed by a corresponding to.ergy in the
Government. His Lordship conclit.led with moving,
that the Bill fbr Suspending the Habeas Corpus Act
should he read the second time.

Marquis WELLESLEY:—h was unnecessary kr
the Noble Secretary in, looking for an exact deserve
than and portrait of the hostile machinations, and of
the agents connected in these machinations, to look
for resemblances in the acts rs of the French Revo
than: There has prevailed for some time past a state
and temper of the public mind, to which, without ap-
pealing to his Latin or his English quotations, t 1 e
Noble Secretary might have attributed the general
dissatisfaction that pervades so great a portion of the
people of this corrotry. He might have seen that it
was the state of general distress, out of which has
sprung a- general discontent, ihat, (as Lord Bacon
say) furnishes the true and general matter 411 sedi.
Itioni Can it be doubted, therefore, that such men
exist, and have existed in all vs.:mks, who, adverse
to the frame and establirliments of the Constitution
under which they live, have availed themselves of the
additional I,.!ps that such distress and discontent
have afforded, to prnteente 'Lek hostile views ? It
tittle m ichinatirms,• acting upon the. general cala-
mity, were calculated to pr6duce real danger to tee ,
public tranquillity, and if these consequences can be
satisfactorily established, then it were necessary to isr-
pose those restraints, which, though infringing the IL
berties of the good, set re imposed justly, to contra-
vene the excrtifins, nt the evil. affected. This pm! -
urinary Ones vaittut was demanded by an impression
in same degree citculated, namely, that the proof
of the necessity was not a justification of the in.
fringeMent—(llear.) True British liberty has its
base in public order.—Pex sit tranquilk litertas.—
But although that principle was true, it was not on
every allegation of public disturbance, it was not on
every ebullition, even of a treasonable tendency, even
though the branches of that treason spread far and
deep, that the Parliament should be called upon to
alter the existing laws of the laud. There should he
before them a plain distinct case, founded on
tible evidence,, in order that Parliament should be
'justified in doing that, which in ordinary citc,uro.
stances would be a direct infringemenoraf the public
freedom. He would go farther and contend, that
unless the Ministers of the Crown could .prove un-
questionably that treason, if it exists, cannot•be re-
strained by the ordinary course of law, they are not
warranted in demanding idle estention of extracwili-
nary powers. There remained lat one lather preli-
minary point, in respect of which every thing him
delusion must be dispelled!, but the whole elucida-
tion, he feared, would require greater efforts, then
under the state of his health 1 c was enabled to afford.
It was, however, so imp: native to the just considera-
tion of the present question, that he would endeavour
to explain fully the inipressi ,n of his grind., Use
Noble Secretary (Sidmouth) bad dwelt long on the
prec dents of 1795 and 1801. In the former period
he had the opportunity of being acquainted distinctly
with the circumstances; of the latter he could only
speak from report. But cl.is he would,contend, that
though it could be shewn distinctly that the conspi-
racy of day was aliice Lis yearral character to that
of 1795—though the vll. ft acts were of the same com-
plexion and betrayed a similar object...-still, unless it
was also sheen that the condition of the country in
its rel diens foreign and.domeitic a ere s m tar—that
the causes of therntschirsiewere the same, the reasoning
in fiVour of similar measures of Goe---- • be
exercised now was, in his mind, wht
In 1795 all• the mischiets against wl
meet of the powers of the Crown
mainly sprung from the "tench
France the dangers were e'ppreheni
machinations et agents fxdru that

1 .
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.

Gho7yerinnmeoenlictiutsioebire.
which the ei)lorge.
3 Went to provsdwi,
IZevolutio9 I from
ended, at)d, to too
counyi the cam&
•

I

oreiustry energy of the Government was directed,
Titers might have been manifested some partial in-
clination to public disturbances during two years of
scarcity ; but in the enactments of that period they
were never contemplated,' The principles of the
French Revolution, and those alone, were the great
fountain and origin of the system then pursued...
.(aflear).—This consideration led to topics that he felt
could not be disagreeable to the sell-complacency of
the Noble Lords opposite. What, he would
then, were the grand principles of our modern policy
v
when our army in Spain wa-engaged in its succe,
sion of 'triumphs—when the Nations of the Coats-
' sent, in imitation of nor ample, wire deterniined
to make a struggle for their intftpendence ? It was
this—that we had actually extinguished the spirit of
Jacobinism —that V. limey ex. original differences might
have existed as to the justice of the war, the univer-
sal feeling of England and of Europe was, that the
war in its progress :tad assumed a new complexion—.
that the aggressions a the military government of
France had Made it'a war for liberty, for justice, for
the rights of rations—that the experience the people
. of EuYope had felt of the tendency and result of the
prifici; les of the Revolution—of the sanguinary ex-1
cesses in which they terminated, and the tremendous
despotism ty which they were succeeded, had at
length recalled the people of the Continent to sounder
views, and made them feel, that they, the people,
bad also, .with their Sovereigns, a common right in
legitimate government and public order ( Hear, hear).
In one word, that our successes had completely ex.
tinguished Jacobinitm -for ewer. But then came the
Peace—that settlement of Europe as it was called
a Peace never equalled in the production of more cruel
wrongs—a settlement that has directly, and with
every dist epic' of justice, Lid prostrate every prin-
ciple that heretofore characterised the Law of Nations
.—.that transferred nations without regard to sympa.
• thy or interests-that tied people toge:.er, not even
connected by the most remote affection,- that outrag-
ed all those principles and declarations en which the
Powers of L'brope professed to act. When these
things happened, then it was that the subdued spirit,
. that so long desolated the earth, again rose—then it
was thatJacobinism spoke again, and something
to speak at, and, hydra-beaded, resumed its pristine
strength.—(Hear, hear.)—Were there no other cir-
cum.tances that tended to give life and strength to
iu exertions ? We were told on a former occasion
by the Noble Lord, that by the ordinances of Puovo
natics, that war was favourable to certain permits of
commerce. The converse of that proposition went
. to prove. that under the Christian dispensation, peace
must be destructive in the proportion as.war was te.
Adria' to our trade. Yet had England no claims
upon the Nations of Europe? _ Could she not have
said after the glorious successes of th.wwar, when she
had in her hands tire means of securing her demands
.—We have purchased for your Governments, exist..
ence—for your People, jodependence ? It was British
means that rescued you—it• was arms secured
. your release. Our resources arise from our commer-
cial prosperity —:it was that prosperity restored your
strength—supplied you Treasury with sub'sidies.—
And Ow before those great benefits ate ratified, we
demand that commercial prciereat and intercourse,
the resources of which have been so available to
. your own security Wear, hear ) and on which the
means of our own sesuscilation after such sa.rifice.
deptnd. The Minister that omitted such demands,
andsuch an orportunity, has to answer in no light
• degree to the aggravated distresses of his country
(Hear, bear, -v.) The result has been general di..
recolicctii all ,' efforr.

iouteot. Thehoc people . Ing the :ts they
bad nude, and aware of the sources from whence
these efforts flowed, have looked with astonishment
and indigo:viol' at an arrangement in 'Lich no one,
stipulation in favour. of British prosperity was gua-
ranteed. No other commerce bas followed this settle-
ment of Europe, save the African Slave Trak—.
(Haw. hear.) He now came to the particular evil,
and to the proposed remedy toe it. It was stated,
that Societies existed throughout the nation, whole
object was to misrepresent and overthrow Fathering".
.If such were the case, what vrgs tile natural ink+
ence ? Was it not, that Ministers 'should hasten to
apply to Parliament-as the propei Place for bread.'
gation and redress? Was not-Parliament the proper
• Instrument fis dissipatigg-the popular delusion, for
giving additional strength, if wanted, to the haat*
.of the Executive? Report stated, that the
first ateeting..-the first overt act (as it was as-
. vetted) of actual tresson--took place• m long ago
as the 18th day of November last. Oa this peat.
- aeon it was said, that the most inflammatory language
_ was used to excite the people, and to vilify the Go.
versemeat. Yet the Noble Lord says,.that it was only
three weeks before the meeting of Parliament that be
had any notice that this meeting was treasonable.
But sorelton the 2 of December the doubts of the
Noble 'Loft wait have been removed ; for on that
• Occasion, allshe adjuncts of revolution were in full
Imbibition—hi-coloured flags, tricoloured cockades,
sad caps of liberty f What would their Lordships
• chinch, when they learned that the principal agitator
at both these meetings had been in dose correspoo-
dente with the Noble Secretary ; nay, had waited in
• =on the Noble- Viscount, and had of course
received with all that courtesy for which the,
. .• Noble Viscount was celebrated ? But what would
•. their Lordships say, when they heard that the Noble.
Viscount-bad, with all solemnity, laid his hand upon
, • his heart, and assured the principal agitator that
. he would lay before the Prince Regent the proceedings
• ". of that first meeting which had since been declared
%AD be treasonable —Visor, kw, and a laue.)—
s, ler his own pact be could not help thinking, that the
areond meeting must have been called wider the aus-
; pites of his Noble Friend (Lord Sidmooth), who had
been induced to lend his official aid to his new also-
- cis*, the agitator—(aleetk)—for *laicise could be
inferred front that sweet intercourse between those.

“copnblic characters I (a Lath.) To be sure, while
• AM principal person of the. drama was thus its-
. :itinyed. in heaping merited eulogies on his Noble
Ally, it did so happen tharaw.insorrectionary shoo.
• --lOW is snot* part' of the field excited and led
fertb an entry to frustrate all those schemes for the
• skompsißity which had been concerted with
• oehoitin.isodiestralithip (a Angus.) But what was
theta* 410• •Had the Noble Secretary
dane-all-tbst.be 4aaldf„ . Had. be done all that he
ought ? Had be not. o, the contrary, in the very
thick of his oewly4iscoltered treason, further pro-

rogued the Farßement, instead of calling it together ?
Mad he not gone counter to the uniform practice of
the Constitutioo, by thus barring the doors of Parlia-
ment in a time of public danger, when they ought
more especially to have bon opened ? But what use
did the Noble Secretary, make of the laws then in
force? Their lArttships mould be astonished-to hear
that, though the provisions of several statutes were
in full efficacy, not one bad been applied. The Re-
port hid noticed, with proper horror, the outrage on
the Prince Regent ; an outrage as detestable, when
ithe. personal qnalities of the Prince were considered,
-aa it was alarming, on the ground of its being di-
: 'rem.] against the Sovereign. Why. then, had not
the Noble Secretary come down before with a propo-
-1 sition, which all could understand, and to which all
' would readily agree, that the person of the Prince
Regent might be more effectually protected? As
doubts existed whether the Act relating to the King
could comprehend the Regent, a by had not Minis-
ters taken the earliest opportunity of extending its
provisions to the acting Sovereign ? They sheweJ a
prodigious hurry to acquire a power of arresting
people at pleasure; they were in the most violent
haste to withdraw the great palladium of British
liberty, but they were slow and temperate, and
deliberate enough, in bringing forward any mea-
stires for the better protection of the Royal person.
He thought it an omission that no such Bill bad been
brought forward, and certainly he, for one, should
not have hesitated to give his consent to it; nor was
he disposed to object to a Bill for the regulation of
Public Meetings, for he was convinced that some re-
straint was essential to the liberty of the people them-
selves. He was sure that there was no Lord in that
House who would not lend his assistance to both these
objects. But the specific produced {his night by the
Noble S:cretary was ill adapted to either of these
purposes : it was, besides, objectionable on the very
grounds on which former specifics of the same nature
were supported: He could not' but pronounce it
monstrous, that at such a time as this every man's'
liberty should be put in jeopardy, while bills of in-
demnity would always be ready for those who abused
this power. It was intolerable, that a raw snore
sacred than Magna Charta itself should be thrown
aside, and that even the legal rights of the'orpressed
should be defeated by the fres:i opprets'on of an act
of indemnity. In former times, actual war or actual
tebellion had alone been considered a justification of
such a suspension of an Englishman's dearest right..a.,
Now externally all was quiet, unless indeed the clan-
gers of that zkri&e: peace (so cried up by the Noble
Lords) were equal to all the horrors of the French
Revolution. And as to Ireland, there, according to
Ministerial a:counts, all was quiet, though, to tell ch.
truth, he (the Marquis Wellesley) could not' help
assenting to the saying of a facetious friend who bad
just left that country, that ss it was as quiet as gun-
powder I" At all *vests, Ministers shoidd be cau•
tious in their proceedings: they should feel that the
present waster of the nation required to be treated
with the utmost delitacy, and that-every mode should
be taken to convince the people that the Parliapseot
did not outstep the just limits of necessity. As yet, I
he had seen no evidence which could lead him to
think that the danger was of aufficient form and dig.
nity to require that personal liberty should be violated
liolorc he concluded lie most say on: word, and that l,
was, that while the House was passing an act for the
repressioo of sedition, it should not forget the causes
which had first stirred up the discontent of the peo-
ple. They should recollect the advice of Lord
Bacon, that 44 the sorest way to prevent 'editions is to
take away the matter of them." They should in
this spirit thew a readiness, increased rather than re-
laxed, to reduce all extravagant expenses, to remove
all unnecessary burdens. No permanent good, no
real security, could'accrue to the State, if the Parra.
=cot from alarm, however jest, should suffcr its at-
tention to be diverted from :he gteat object of pdblie
retrenchment. (Neer, hear.) •
The Earl of lAVE4RPOOL contended, that it
was aot-a case of arecedents, but tbat the real clues.
tioo wt.` whether there existed at the present moment
a sufficient cause for the proposed measure ? His
Lordship then proceeded to argue, in answer to the
statement of the Noble Marquis who preceded him;
that the two years immediately succeeding the peace.
had displayed our commerce in a flourishing gate,'
and that the distresses of the country originated in'
the depression of out agriculture, Which was further,
necessarily felt in our domestic trade. In answer to
the observation, that Parliament should have beep
called together sooner, if the country were really in
the situation represented, he said, that it was not un-'
,til within three weeks of the Meeting of Parliament
Government had obtained precise infordiation upon
which they could act, or propose a legislative mea-
sure ; and even since fhe .Committee had sat, some
important information had been Obtained. In fact,
more danger would have been incurred by an earlier
meeting of Parliament, than there was beadk to be
expected ; and he could mention many cases in which
Members of Counties were implored not to quit the
country even now, so necessary was the ardor:ice of
their presence considered to the public safety. The
House had., in the Report before it, evidence of a
virulent conspiracy, spread over the country by clubs,
by secret societies, secret oaths, and seditious publi-
cations, for the overthrow of the nisei.; Govern-
ment. This, he coat. nded, was • a sefficsent caws
for the presentmeasure. The conspiracy was more
malignant than that of 1796, because its members
had learned a lesson from their predecessors, and
were the more formidable, as being more aspect and
practised in the business.
Earl GREY—In a less exhausted state, and at
an earlier hour -of the debate, he should have been
led to enter more fully into this most important ques-
tion ; but it ikfuld now be out of his power to do jus-
tice to what he felt, or to acquit himself to the satis-
faction of his own mind, in. defending the canes of
the people against the most unnecessary and most ;to-
called-tor act that any Miniater of the Crown, in any
period of our history, had ever ventured to propose
to Parliament. H. must contend, with his Noble
IPriend (Marquis Wellesley) that in his belief a ealia.
' derable part of the dissatistution and tremotelme *at
so generally prevailed had beim lbs. eimge 44 Ow
=and he should tie sorry to dusk '•
he Wok-that tbe Oa* of
liberty was indi . .hearts of ilaAdoese.
—.The Noble ,Ibord4 . )30 Aiiid,- 044*
peace was geode** taidireal so
Ivied glop; and, teetaialY, as far as respecteds

ear ernts—as far as the glory of 'the Vikstrious Oe
tieral who comtnanded our troops, and the bra-
very of the troops- themselves, were concerned, th
circumstances of this puce were unprecedented in
our annals: But, in his opinion, equal to the glory
and renown of our arms was the disgrace of the ne-
gotiations. The Noble Lord had s rid, these negotia-
tions had secured independence and freedom to the
other nations of Europe which they never enjoyed be-
fore. Where were we to look for this care tor the in-
dependence of other Stases; Was it in Genoa? Was
it in Venice ? Was it in Saxon) ? The Nable Lord
had attempted to justify a charge of not having as-
sembled Parliament sooner; and he ( Earl Grey)
begged the House to attend to his detente on this
subject. What, said he, should we have called Par-
liament together while we had not sufficient evidence
before us-to justify coercive measures? And was this
the only apology that Nibble Earl had to offer
to their Lordships ? Was the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, that great and glorious bul-
wark of onr liherties—were restraints on the
s 4f the people of Eagland, the wily duties
of Parliament in these times of distress ? The
duties of Parliament consisted rather, in his opi-
nion, in manifesting s se hit of conciliation—in spew-
ing a disposition to do all that was possible to relieve
the general pressure—in plying attention to the re-
spectful remonstrances of the people—in evincing an
anxiety to mitigete their sufferings, by a steady ob-
servance of retrenchment and economy. It had ben
said, that even in the year of the Revolution it was
necessary to resort to similar measures. He agreed,
that in that year a teteporary sospeurien of our liber-
ties took place, and it was a time of all others which
justified such a proceeding. There was then an exile
from the throre, still suppratr d by great and power-
ful persons in both coutories—there wasthen a reign
not generally recognized, and the enemy was ready
to be assisted by the most powerful foreign aid. But,
our ancestors never consented to part with this power
for more than a atonth at a time—( Year, hear.)
In 105 the circumstances of the country were to-
tally different from what they are at present. A plot
was then formed for the assassination of King Wil-
liam : and the character of the persons and the pro-
babilities of its success, could nut be compared with
the danger that was now said to exist. And yet,
when the country was threatened with all those dan-
gers, in that very year did our ancestors pass that
very statute regulating the trial for treason, which
provides that it shall have greater advantages than
other trials, and which is now one of the greatest
securities of the British Constitution. He did not
Nish to go through the'other precedents, but to state
generally, that this was the fit st time it had ever been
proposed to pass a law to suspend the Habeas Corpus
Act, except in cases of foreign and domestic war.
Where was the danger which QOM threatened us ?
Their Lordships had before them the plot and the
actors; they assembled in Spa fields, and were never
*followed by more than 2 or SW persons, who dis-
persed tile moment an alarm of a dragoon was heard.
They did not even wait for any operations of the
troops sent by General Lord Viscount Sidmouth, and
certainly Bunhill-fields never saw a brewer comman-
der. =(Laeghter.) One or two-shops were however,
plundered, and one individual was wounded. The
chief bombers of the Spafields plot had been detected,
and he hoped wruld be tried as soon as possible.
Seditious publications might be punished under the
act of 1797, which provides for the preservation of
the King's person. Why bad not Ministers done
their duty and repressed those peblications? Was it
because we had an incompetent Attorney-General,
and a negligent Secretary of State (hear,) that
extraordinary powers %vete to be 'given to the
Crown ?- Ministers had power enough already to
prevent taking secret oaths and seditious meetings.
Was the British Constitution, as he had read in a
• celebrated Witter, as variable as the weather ? Was
it only fit to sail Non the smooth surface of a sum-
mer iv a ;" and when " the tempest rages and the
weirlsviud risers," was it not able to carry us through
our dangers ? Such was not his opinion of the British
Constitution. Upon these grounds he should give
his dissent to the second reading of this Bitl ; and
should not have thought himself worthy of a seat is
that Hawse, if he had not raised his voieeatgainst a
measure, which, in his conscience, he thought would
he one of the most fatal in its consequences that had
seer been adopted by Parliament.
The Duke of SUSSEX observed, that he wts pre.
sent at the greatest part of the examinations of the
Rioters, and the result be had heard was this :—The
whole subscription amounted to the enormous sum
of ten pounds, which was collected to defray the ex-
penses of handbills for -calling the Meeting. The
waggon went with a debt of 101. which. was still un-
paid. The ammunition was pot in at the top of
Chancery-lane, and was contained in an old stocking.
There were about 50 balls, none of which fitted the
pistols, and one pound of powder. Such was this
mighty plan of insurrection ; but he could not allow
mole-Fills to be magnified into mountains. This wasl
a subject -nearly as serious as votiag lite and death,
guilty or not guilty; and it was impossible to vote
away the liberlies of Englishmen it; this manner.—
The duty of an honest man was only to vete on that
side on which his conscience lies. and therefore hal
should sit down in voting against the measure.—
illear, hear, hear.)
Lord GRENVILLE said, the question came to
die simple issue—whether the amount of 'the necessity
bp. Mich as really to justify the eaoptios of this mea-
sure ? On looking at this subject, .he did not think
it necessary to go into a sort c 4 comparative scale of
the dangers of the present moment with the dangers
of former pined:; because. in the fluctuating state
'of society and nations, be thought it hardly possible
to select one or two, striking circumstances, and M.
say that the absence of some circumstance in this
case, which there was in another, must put out of
consideration those evils which it was necCssaiy to
goad against. Never, till the present ;nowt, was,
the hope entertained in this country of.ijyiaching the
minds of the great mass of the people, not4ftcrillis or
that sort of religion, but from all religiofsw
The seditious writers of the present day, who deluged
the country, and filled the air with their ignorant and
wicked protractions, did not make, it a question by
whom the Government shod& be administered, but
• *bather a Government should mist a; all ? whether
the *hole frame and constitution°, the c.puntry was
lON e 0 corrupt as not to coil. for 4 mere Reform of
radiants:l but soak a lefotnt is would asssoutit Le

a complete insortection. It was not fru the seen:',.
of this or that individual, or of this or that chile
persons, but it was for the security of die wboleenk
munity that he thought it necessary that Parlistner.
should interfere to arm Ministers with those poetr
which, he feared, were the only means left to pr,
tect the sialeryand security of the nation. He deepi,'
regretted that it sheuld be necessary to suspend th'4
.habeas Corpus Act, even for the shortest period;
bin, since that Was necessary,he was happy that the
suspension had not been extended beyond a petite
when the subject might be recousideted byttheeptraeii:
sent Parliament.
The Doke of GLOUCESTER was sorry od
rhe.r Lordships even for a moment Voger at this late
hour; but he could not reconcile it to himself to give
• a silent vote on this most important question,
man could possibly be more unwilling than he was%
support any measure fcr the suspension of the IL bras
Cot pm Act ; hut lie was convinced of the neeeisit)
tt
the measure, under the present circurbrances of the
country, aid would therefore join Ws Neble
in voting for the second reading of this IEI, teem.
tint!, at the same time, that he was conirl:ea to
differ from so many other Noble and rispecte.: friends.
Lord HOLLAND did not mean to discuss el
subject at any length in the present exhausted site
of the House, and rose to say a few words, merit
because, on a question of such magnitude, he co;; ,
not rest satisfied with giving a silent vote. The t.
neral subject had been so well explained on both s:J s
of.the House, that it was unnecessary to mut to
With respect to the course adopted in 1794, it wcel4
be recollected that other measures had then been rt.
sorted to. The Habeas Corps Act was not oven_
ded in-1795 ; nor during the dissolution of
ment ; and he hoped it never would be saspendee is
such circurnstarces. It should be observed, that
though the complaint now was, that there was a da
cay of all religion among the people, the increase of
the tlethadists had often been lammed in teat
House. The two things were incompatible, and if
Methodism had spread to so great an tenet amens'
the people, that very circumstance created a very
strung degree of doubt as to the necessity of the pre-
sent mcefsure. Upon the whole, he cirsld nut think
_ _

himself justified in voting for the ld reading toe Lillie
present, for three previous requisites sere wanting. In
the lint place, it had rot been shewn that eshting
laws were i.,adsquate to answer the purpose-241v,
it had not b ern shewn that they had been enforced,
such as they were—a tact so obvious, that his 14.. V,
Friend (1... rd Grenville) admitted that he Was ua,-
ble for the circumstance-3(117, it did not
appear that this was the proper mode to meet the es.:
The Hoots then divided so the motion for the second rev 1.7
of thoihd—Content...... ...... 54 Non-Centent.........v•
Proxies.. .....«....9a tiozies 4V

+~'!s

Majority ........ —...1 I S
While straagers !ere excluded, the bill warread Stand tiny,
OMMilted, reported, read a third time and passed.
Adjuurued at Tiro o'Clock.
MUSE OF COMMONS, PEBRUAILV 4r.

At a quarter before four o'clock the Usher of the Black Rod
appeared at the Bar, and summoned the Howe to reptr to the
House of Lords, to bear the Royal Assent given to various lii;l%.
At their return the Sremt stated, that the Royal Assent Ord
,been &co to several Public and Private Bills.
Mr. BROODAN brought up the Report of the C.oncnittoe sp•
pointed to inspect the Journals of the Hoessof Lot.l..—Ordered
to lie on the 'fable.
Mr. 11. ADDINGTON presented Returns of the number of
Person. ihmmttted tor (Arturo:B relative to Game. under the 4AL
of the King.—Ordcred to lie on the Table.
Mr, OASKEI.I, presented a Petitiott from the Inli3titrits of
Wakefield in favour of Parliamentary Returni.—DrJered IA fie
on the 'fable.

Mr. BROGDEN presented the Report of the Committee of
Sup;ltes. Tho Resolution for granting £5410,1M0 on Account d
the Army Estimates. was agr.ed to, and leave given to brug
in a Bill.

Sir R. HERON presented a Petition in fasiPour of Annual U.&
dons and Universal Suffrage, Isom the Inhabitants ut raJortoo:
ft Rearewshire.—Ordered to lie On the 1 able.

Mr. SHAW presented a Petition frost the eadtller., Cot Li..
tnakers, and Harness *takers of the City of Dublin, artiust um
Tim ea Wheel Cartilages and Horses.--Ordired to he au
the 'fable.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT moved fors stonsnaty retu►n of cite
particula frauds And forgtiles committed uo the Stamp OZCV ui
Ireland for !he last five years. He understood that tot if
XI 50,000 a year had been paid on that meat m br the last lbe
years in that country. Chen the Papers should be produced,
the iiiksise would i.e that it Mash, parantourst duty to proms
purchasers of property. Four distributors of the Stamp Oflise is
trviand had Viten convicted and sentenced. He also moved le
the roxolt of the inquiries 1134 prosecutions founded upon them,
and the probable amount of the forgeries during the period nu m
tioned.— Ordered.

sir 11. Nk.WPOR r then mowed foe Returns of the amount d
Fees taken in striking Dockets of Baokruptey,uut of office Lcvry
in Ireland, from the 119th of December, ism, to the la, of
Stptrather, ists.—Ordered.

Mr. GOOCH ;,resented a Petition from Woodford, for a
ciente ur the POor Lawa.—Ordered to lie ou the table.

PRISONS.

Mr. BENNETT, seeing-The Right Hon. Gentle-
man in his place, wished to know whether any Re-
port had yet been made by the Commissioners af-
pointed two years since to examine the state of the
Marshalsea and other Prisons ?
_ _

1 Mr. H. ADDINOTON had replied on a former
day to the same question, that no Report had yet
been made. He did not know why he shottld be
pressed upon the subject, as the office to wl.,cit ►.e
belonged was not responsible in such matters. l!e
understood, however,
.that the respectable indivi4lu-i
At the bead of the Commission had visited the Msr-
dullest during the last few weeks, and he was aut4e-
rised to say, that the Report might be expected in a
very short period.
Mr. BENNETT complained that two years had
passed, and the Report was not yet produced. ►ie
contended that it was the duty of the Home Office,
to see that the'Commissioners executed the uult
reposed in them. He wanted the Report, in o►der
to enable him to biing forward a Bill tor die reguta,
lion of Prisons. 5

COMMITTEE OF FINANCE,
Sir JOHN NEWPORT had been placed, by the
good opinion of the House, on the Committee a 1.,
pointed to inquire into the expenditure of the ccury I 7.
He felt that honour as he ought, but he found :•:s
state'' his health such as to disable him I ram b?
to ii
erotism *.sse effective Member which the Cornmirce
.titlLLe a. He could not answer the confidence te!aeh
.., I, •
the ouse had placed in him if he retained his sot
in the Committee. Under these circumstances, it A
were the will'of the House, he would resign that se.:
-into its hands.
Mr. CALCRAFT then moved, that, ir. crtig-
queoce of ill health, Sir John Newport should be iii.•
charged from the Committee.
After a few words from Mr. DAVI GV.iinr., or

•
wNch t!'' Committee would experience in
bring deprived of the talents of the Hon. Baronet,
the Diaiioa was agreed to.
PaOPIRTY TAX.
Mr. GOOCH wished to put a question to an Hs-
earable Friend of his now in his place. farmer A
/lad been passed last Session to give relief to
By it, those whose farms did nut exceed £2OO a year,
were exempted from the duty paid on the Property
'La. It pealed that the Collectors of that impost
tad added the compens.ition paid for tithes to the re-
value of the farmers, and thus included many within
the operitko cf the Property Tax, who otherwise
would have been exer.•.pted by the effect-hi the Act
in question. What he wished to knot► Was, whether
in spirit, fur certainly not' is letter, that Act could
be interpreted in the manner that had been done. If so,
'T,e hoped Ministers would correct their own measure.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, the case bad been sub.
'flitted to the Lords of the Treasury, hut that no de.
termination bad yet been taken upon the subject.

_
rAVLMENT Olf Tisa XIETROPOLII. -
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR moved for leave to bring
ii a Bill for better repairing the Pavement of the
l!etropolis. According to the eiisting laws, thy only
r,zaxs which could be resoitell to by individuals to
rive the pavement mended, was that of indictment.
The object of his Bill would be to give a summary
rissiiction. in certain cases, to order the pavement
',be mended in three or four days, when it shoirld
b: deemed necessary from its dangerous state, and to
invent its being broken np to supply houses with

scree.
Mr. CALVERT hoped that the new specimen of
raring, which had been tried on the other side of
2lacktriars bridge, would be adopted—(Hear, hear.)
...It had been laid down many months, and he had

passed it often, but did not see the least appeararce,
of its bring spoiled —(Heor, hear).
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR. thanked the Honourable
Gentleman for his suggestion. His Bill coulJ not
compel any parish to adopt a p irticuldr pavement.
They must be allowed to do the best for themselves,
but he would ceitaitily recommend that which had
beta alluded to.—Leave was then given.