Star.
London, England, 1821-05-12 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The Smitten entered the House at a quarter before four.
Lord BARNARD presented a Petition from certain persons
interested in the Woollen-drapery Trade in Bandon, against the
laws affecting the same.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. A. CAMPBELL presente 1 a Petition from the Cham-
ber of Commerce, at Greenock, against any alteration in the
Usury Laws.—Laid on the table.
Mr. BLACKBURN E presented a Petition from the Clergy
and Inhabitants of Preston against the custom of Bull-baiting.—
Laid on the table.
On the motion of Mr. Lunn:terve, the Militia Pay Bill went
through a Committee of the whole House, and the Report was
ordered to be received on Monday.
The Irish Militia Pay Bill went also through a Committee,
and the Report was ordered to be received on Monday.
Upon the motion of Mr. Hums, several Returns on the table
were ordered to be printed.
Upon the motion of Mr. Lusurriceon, it was ordered that the
House' on its rising, do adjourn to Monday next.
Mr. CIIICH ESTER postponed the second reading of the
Dundalk County Court-house Bill to the 27th instant.
Lord A LTIIORPE, after stating that in consequence of the
period of the Session at which they were now anivedc wished
to postpone the County Courts Bill to the next Session, and
moved that the said Bill be re-committed this day six months.—
The motion was agreed to.
Upon the motion of Mr. J. Smelt, the lknkrupt Laws
.Amendment Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be
committed on 3londay.
The Witnesses in Foreign Parts Bill was read. a second time,
and ordered to be committed on Wednesday next.
The Irish insolvency Court Bill went through a Committee :
the Report was received, and read.—Ordered to be taken into
further consideratior. this day sennight.
A .ties..ige from the Lords informed the House that their
s agreed to several Private Bills, ar,d the Apprentices'
Intlentii.e Bill, without any Amendments.
The rquis of TICHI lEI.D brought up the Report of the
Committee on the Warwick Election, which declared that the
Sitting Member was duly returned, and that the Petition was
LOL fiivolous nor veitatiouw.
Mr. C. DUN DAS brought in a Bill to amend the 22d of
the late King, for the better Relief and Employment of the
Poor.—Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time
on Monday.

biund to take notice of it. He was the more induced
to think so, for this reason-.41e bad heard it out of
doors that persons orhigheondition—(Hear, hear)—
nay, that men who were thought worthy of a seat in
the Councils of this Nation, were at the bottom of,
and countenanced thit vile publication--:(Lottd cries
of Hear, hear).—He would not say what truth
there was -in this, but the House ought to be in-
debted to his Honourable Friend, who, by a gene-
rous exertion, endeavoured to bring this matter to
light, to expose the hidden assassins who were its
real supporters, and shew to the world, that though
wretches could be found vile enough to come to the,
Bar of that House and take the responsibility on
'
themselves, yet so clumsy was the plot, so base, so
unblushing, and so barefaced were the evasions of '
these mean instruments, that the Public would not
be duped to think them the real Proprietors of the
Paper—(hear, hem).— With regard to prosecution
by the Attorney-General, that was not a course which
he' would recommend, because this was not, properly
speaking, a libel upon the House. He would, him-,
ever, have the House guard itself against any misre-
' presentation of its debates from improper motives.—
, He had no motion to make, but he would recom-
mend to his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion, for,
it would give him pain to vote against any motion of'
his, and yet that was a course which he would be
obliged to take on the present occasion.
Mr. BENNETT said, he was always willing, to
attend to the suggestions of his friends. In bringing
forward this motion, he had two objects in view—,
first, to vindicate his character; and secondly, to,
drag the author of this paper to the light. The,
House had pronounced the paragraph which he sub-
mitted to them a scandalous libel. It then remained
for him to select such of the delinquents as were most
guilty for punishment. In doing this, he suffered
himself to be influenced by certain feelings, which,
perhaps, were not very correct, and he determined,
as far as he eras concerned, to bring the defendants
to another tribunal, where alone they would have an
opportunity of defending themselves. He was ready
to admit that his course might not he the wisest one,
but he assured the House it was taken up from ho-
nest and conscientious motives—(Hear, hear).—He
was alive to all the objections stated by his Honour-
able and Learned Friend, and knew the House could
grant or refuse this evidence in case of a trial at Bar.
Having now, however, done his duty, he had no ob-
jection to leave the further disposition of this matter
to the wisdom of the House—(hear, hear).
Sir RONALD FERGUSON was decidedly hos-
tile to a prosecution by the Attorney-General. His
wish was, that these unworthy persons should escape
without any punishment—(Hear, hear).—He would,
therefore, oppose any motion for committing them—
(/hear, hemr).—He was sure his Hon. Friend was ac-
tuated by no vindictive feelings in bringinrifor ward
this subject. His object was to clear liim.s;lf fr om a
foul aspersion cast upon him; but his Hon. Friend
had done more than was necessary, for his character
was not so low in the world as to call for such a pro-
ceeding. It was, however, natural enough, when a
man's honour was attacked, and his courage im-
peached, that he should feel some uneasiness until
these were cleared to the world. He had no diffi-
culty in establishing one and the other. As to the
paper against «hick he compla;ned, though not en-
tirely successful, lie had at least succeeded in ex-
posing to the world the base wretches who were put
forth to meet the storm. The House saw what a com-
plete contem et these wretches had for everything like
decency and truth, and he hoped the thinking part
of the Rublic would also appreciate the future labours
of these worthies—(Hear, hear).—He hoped in GOD
that the real authors of this most infamous publica-
tion would soon be dragtted forth—(Hear, hear).—
It was, indeed, a new era in the history of this tour.-'
try, that a paper, set up confessedly for the purpose
of blasting the characters of virtuous women, should'
be suffered to exist—( Hear, hear).—But it was more'
wonderful that such a paper should find supporters
—(Loud cries of Hear).—He wished he could believe
the wretches at the Bar to be the real authors ; but,
looking to some other paragraphs in the same paper,'
he could not shut his eyes to the conviction that others
than these men were concerned in it—(Hear)—that
its poison was supplied by mean, base, and cowardly
assassins behind the curtain—(Hear, hear)—and that
these wretches *disgraced a certain rank in society,
into which, by some adventitious merit, they had
intruded themselves. But he hoped they would be
one day dragged forth ; he hoped to see them over-
whelmed by the scorn of the world : but even this
punishment, severe as it was, was scarcely adequate
to the flagitious offences which these wretches had
been in the habit of perpetrating against society.
Mr. BARING thought the honourable Member,
by consenting to withriraw his motion, had placed the I
House in a difficulty. It was scarcely fair km any'
Member to bring an affair of this nature under the
notice of the House, and then stop short before the
House had vindicated its own "dignity—(Hear). He
would advise the Honourable Member not to submit
his complaint to a Court of Law; for though the
offence might happen to be a great infraction of the
privileges of the House, yet a Court of Law might
look upon it as no offence at all—(Hear). As the
question now stood, the House was committed to go
on with it—it could not stop here. The House was
called upon to take some measures in its own defence.
He was unwilling to interfere, and was induced to do
so, only because he saw no other Gentleman inclined
to take the matter up. He would now suggest the
proper course which ought to be taken. He should
premise, however, by stating that he was not an
jnemy to reports being given of the proceedings in
that House, provided they were fair reports. In-
' deed, on the contrary, he thought those reports did
much with the country for the character of the House
itself—(Hear, hear). Ile would even allow a great
degree of liberty in commenting on the proceedings
in the House, and make great allowances for the dif-
ficulty which the Gentlemen who took these reports
had in hearing the Members. I)ut the present was
not a palliated case. It was not a misrepresentation
of something said in the House, but a fabrication of
a story from one end to the other(Hear). With
regard to the persons who had been at die Bar;
he would only say, that as to Cooper, he haviiig
avowed himself the author, there could be no doubt
as to him. Not having read the paper called John
134,1 re could not say whether there were any ()fliers
coocerued in it, wino were unwilling to expose them.
selves. He should move, therefore, that Henry Fox

l'Cooper,having avowed himself the author of a para-
graph in John Bull, which was declared to be a false
and scandalous libel on a Member of that House,
should for that offence be committed to Newgate—
(Hear, hear). The Honourable Member then said,
that if this motion was sanctioned by the House, he
should move that the printer should be dealt with in
the same way ; though, as to him, he hesitated whe-i
ther be ought to propose the same punishment as in
the other case. The printer had, however, been
guilty of gross prevarication, and for his hesitation
in giving up the author he deserved punishment. 4
With regard to the orher, he was not sufficiently
master of the evidence to move respecting them ; but
any other Gentleman who had read that evidence
might do so. He concluded with hoping, that when
matters of this sort were brought before the House,
Gentlemen on all sides, forgetting party spirit, would
concur in putting them down.
The SPEAKEII having put the question (Mr. Ben-
nett's motion being withdrawn),
Sir W. DE CILESI'IGNY rose to thank the Hp
nourable Member for Shrewsbury for bringing this
matter before the House. But he denied that by
so doing the Honourable Member had reduced the
House to an embarrassment. The truth was. there
was a crying necessity for dragging this foul libeller
to light, and, by exposing his malignity, to put the
people on their guard against his base designs—
(Hear). But he regretted that the real authors were
not unmasked. At present they were concealed be-'
hind a semen. but he hoped the screen would socn
be pulled away, and they would then stand con-
fessed and convicted before the world—( Hear).
Lord NUGENT felt obliged to the Noble Marquis
for adjourning this question-last night, and thus ena-
bling Members to return to the discussion of it with
calmer judgments. Ile did not agree with an Hon.
Member, that the house was reduced to a dilemma,
in consequence of his lion. Friend withdrawing his
motion. It was not true that there were sim other
means of getting out of the situation in which the
House was placed, than by committing the parties to
Newgate. There was another mode, and he called
the attention of the House to what they had done in
a case circumstanced precisely as this was. Early
in the present Session the Member for Waterford
made a complaint against stn Address from a Pres.'
bytery in Scotland to the King, advising his Majesty
to interfere, and take some measures for checking the
freedom of speech used by Members in the House of
Commons. Now a grosser breach of the privileges
of the House than this could not be committed ; and
yet what did the House do? The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman moved the committal of the parties concerned;
but the Noble Marquis opposite offered an explana-
tion On behalf of the Presbytery, which was held by
the House to be satisfactory, and, after a reprimand,
the matter dropped. He would recommend a simi-
lar course on the present occasion, and he thought
the House, in consistency, ought net to condescend
to punish such wretches as these, when they suffered
a greater attack upon their dearest privileges to pals
unnoticed. The wretches about s' hose punishment
they were now debating, were but the mean instru-
ments of an assassin working in the dark—( Hear).
—Hitherto this assassin was undiscovered, but he
trusted his detection would soon come about, and
that, in the scorn of the world and the scofFs of man-
kind, he would meet that punishment which he so
richly deserved—(hear, hear).—He would entreat
the House not to debase itself by descending to
punish these wretches. The Noble Lord moved, as
an Amendment, "That Henry Fox Cooper be called
to the bar, and, having received a reprimand from
Mr. Speaker, be then discharged."
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that
having yesterday had the good fortune to bring over
the House to his opinion as to the impropriety of
pushing this matter to an-issue in indecent baste, he
would not now state further the reasons which in-
duced him to make the proposition for adjournment,
than to say, that he was anxious nothing should be
done against justice to individuals, or to send them,
with unjust prepossessions against them, into a Court
of Law. He knew the interval would be favourable
to the final judgment of the House. Ile was as much
alive to the privileges of the House as any one, and
he thought when individuals transgressed those -psi-
Vileges they ought to be punished ; but he would
submit that it was always most consistent with the
dignity'of the House to combine mercy with punish-
ment—(heer, hear).—lle wished to see this House
deal out justice with an even band to all parties. He
trusted that 'in the support of the privileges of the
House, as all were alike concerned, all would concur
in supporting them, without being turned aside by
party views—(Hear,hear).—lle was sorry, therefore,
to see this House, on an occasion where unanimity
was so desirable, divided amongst themselves. He
lamented that an Hon. and Learned Gentleman op-
posite (Mr. Scarlett), highly distinguished in his pro-
fession, and possessing those innate sentiments of jus-
tice which belonged to that profession, should throw
out insinuations against a quarter from which he
could expect no answer—(Hear)—or that, by im-
peaching Members in the House, he would give
countenance to those speculations which people out
of doors were ready to indulge in—(hear, hear): He
trusted a gallant General (Sir Ronald Ferguson)
would also forgive him if he hinted to him, that per-
haps his warmth arose more from party zeal than
from any feelings connected with individuals in that
House. The gallant General was to be applauded
for the honest indignation which he expressed at the
unmanly attacks upon virtuous women ; but he (the
Marquis of Londonderry) should take credit to him-
self for not being behind the gallant General in these
feelings. He certainly thought, that ifahere was one
'thing more than another which ought to be protected
from wanton attack, it was the fame of retired and
unprotected females—( Hear, hear).—This sentiment
he was sure was re-echoed by every generous breast
wha heard him—(hoe's hear).—But was he called
upon to say more? Did the House understated the
insinuation of the Hon. and Learned Member to be
of that force, that he (the Marquis of Londonderry)
was called upon to disclaim all connection with the
Paper or the paragraph in question ? He had no he-
sitation in saying, that he reprobated the tendency of
the publication ; but he was ready to
toctonfes2,
hethahtadif
reading it was an offence—
(
transgressed.so far, being unable to. restrain his di-
' iosity. Ile denied in the nest explicit way having
ever given the Paper in question any countenance
whatever—(hear, hear).—liut whilst he reprobated

\, N,
rr,yy
~r l ~ ~1~~53

the Paper called John Th&, he was ti)liged to sv.
that there were other publications which did no:
stain from abusing men, who, by their puhlk ser-
vites, had endeared themselves to their country. The-
abusive Press was. not confined to Aka 1,1:111:. torreas
of abuse bad been let loose on public mea from efive
quarters. And really, tvben he saw Centlemen at the
other side expressing so much honest indignztion
the paragraph in question, he .could mot .help recur-
ring to the feelings which these same Gentlemen ea-
pressed when comptiints'alf a grave nature had bee!'
; made against Papers for attai.ks upon Members at
ibis (the Mai gills of Londonderry's) side of the Hottee
—(Hear, hear).—Why was not the .same indignation•
expressed on all occasions? We shooldtaztheiatahsanave:
' presented the picture of a truly PritiSh Parliamese
acting together in defence of our pri,:ileges—( /feet .
That indignation which kindled only by
our friends, but was dormant at attacks on pollricA;-
opponents, was not, perhaps, very genuine nl/4r very'
generous—(Hear, kear).—lle called upon the House,.
therefote, to go hand in hand to ether on all ncca.
,ions, when subjects of this sort came before them;_
Leaving then party spirit out of the question, he
wished the House to come to a temperate decision
upon this occasion. He recommended them ro .idopr
the same course as was done when a comi,la nt
privilege was made about two years ago. 04 :hat
occasion the complaint was, that ao attack of a ;elf
personal nature indeed was made in a Newspa,;ee
against a night Hon. Friend of his, not now LI his
.place (Mr. Canning)—an attack much more hurtful
to his feelings, and infinitely more cruel than the ire.
sent, as it charged him openly with laughing to scom
the sufferings of his fellow-creatures.—EThe Noble
Lord alluded to the complaint against the Than
Newspaper, .about two years ago.3—The House
would see what had been done on that occasion. He
made great allowances for the possihiiity of error._
But he contended, tha case quoted by a Noble Lord
opposite did not apply here. If the House adopted
that Noble Lord's suggestion, they would let them-
selves down, and forget their dignity. He thought
a reprimand too light,, and commitment to Newttare
too severe for the present case. He would therefore
move, that Cooper be committed to the custody ef..
the Seijeant at Arms.
The clerk then read an extract from the Journals
of the House, to chew, that on a corn; hint of Frivi.
lege being made, on the 16th Jute, 4019, the peiscu
who avowed himself the author of that libel was
committed to the custody of the Seijeant at Arms,
and then discharged.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH obsei-ved, that the
libel was not set forth upon the Journals. It was,
therefore, hard to say, from that evidence, butt fix
the ca .e in question was like the present.
The Marquis of LONDONDE It it iedg-
ment is there."

M‘. .SCARLETT, being alluded to by the '..;obie
Marquis, felt himself called upon to expiain certain
observations which be had made. .He sli,Liairnea all
party feeling—(Hear, ?ear).—ile had heard it -tared,
that this paragraph was written by a Member ul this
House: he did not think that possible, and he was
glad his Honourable Friend had ti.ade h.s
which would acquit this House in the eyes of the
Public, by recording its opinion of its character. He
was the last man to argue that attacks upon private
character ought to be made a political engine of.
Ile thought it was fair for the writer of a Newport
to advocate ene party or the other; but when a
per set up with attacking private characters, it be-
hoved every good man to set his face against it. He
(Mr. Scarlett) had seen but one Number of that Pa-
per; but if Gentlemen would look at that Number,
they would see in a paragraph these, that the writer
affected to say, that he moved in high society. Bat
was it possible that a man capable of writing ss
would be admitted to the society, not of Gentlemen,
but of men?—(hear, hear).—ln ancient Rome, Au-
gustus made libelling women of virtue high treason,
as appears from Tacitus. That writer mentioned sa
instance of a libeller on women being punished is a
traitor to the State. A distinction ought always to
be taken between personal attacks and attacks car
nected with the support of a party. This he men-
tioned because an Honourable Baronet in that Home
(Sir Thomas Lethbridge) wished to see a Committer_
sitting on the abuses of the Press. He would go as
far as any one to punish the libel on the Right am
Gentleman absent; but not being then in the Hoeg
he could not say what the nature of that libel sat
This libel was something more than a misrepreena-
tion : it " smelled of blood." If the writer wished*
bring to an extremity the discussion between &Re.
nourable Member and the other party concerneda
he wished to produce a breach of the peace--be
could not have hit upon a better expedient—(Hen
hear).—Nothing could be more criminal than WWI
a speech was misrepresented £0 as to bring a Mao:
ber of that House into the field—(Hear, hear).-110
Paper, as all scurrilous Papers did, would soon broi
its own level. The Public would sanction those Pk
pers which were the freest from personal attack;
and in fact the principal Papers were the most fag
from personal attack—( Hear, hear, hear).—He
del
not mean to charge any one in the House +4
writing the paragraph. This was not like the cod
the Right Honourable Member for Liverpool, staid
by the Noble Marquis.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY, in etplatee:
tion, said he had distinctly understood the meaning
of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman beam
He did not know whether he had said " C0?'142
of the Nation," or " Councils of the King." L.
7
this misapprehension, he thought it necessarr wnof
dicate his own conduct, as well as the conduct
those about him. He often observed, that,°ader
show of their being general rumours, a blow .7
sometimes struck at individuals, though,. direr
unconsciously on the part of those who di.rectea_.
There certainly appeared to be something in the_lr:
nourable and Learned Gentleman's statement eln
te!
argued that he had given too mach countenince. to
these rumours. He wished them should be as htt'
party spit it displayed on these occasions as Por-!ibl4.
There was no distinction in the cases; forthougnT
libel did not appear upon the Journals, yet the Paw:
molt was recorded, and the vote was of a moor:
• rious nature than the vote of the House on the Pre'.
occasion—( Hear, hear).
RONALDeFua El.
not Sir
tkpNoble Mal (pis learned the art of scanning ` .
.043‘,1,.
s
t
Itc would have the Noble argil's Ipo6
Ga
aS
losso N said
to
khni s
on„! o
,ti;%:ters
es7:l

his own motives, and not put false constructions upon
his (Sir Ronald Ferguson's). His indignation was of
an honest nature, and it was called for by the system
of attackitn; indiscriminately every woman in the
country—l Hear, hear).
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY again ex-;
plained. He wished that Honourable Gentlemen!
would express the same indignation when other Hon.
Members were attacked.--(Cries of Name! I\inne ! I
from thc Oppocition.)—The Noble Marquis sat down.
Mr. WYNN thought the dignity of the House
would he compromised, if the suggestion of the No.
hie Marquis was adopted. The lenity of the pud.ii.
;tient was a sort of justification of past, and would
be an encouragement to future libellers. The Ho:
nourable Gentleman then entered into a detailed re-
view of the complaint of the 16th June, 1819, and
contended that the mildness of the punishment then
was the cause of so many transgressions being since
made, in the way of bad reports, upon the dignity
and privileges of the House.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY denied that
he had justified libels.; but said that he had referred
to the case of the 16th June, merely that the House
might, by some adherence to precedents; preserve
consistency in its proceedings.
Mr. WARD said the attack upon Mr. Canning
was of a mote galling nature than this upon the Ho-
nourable Member for Shrewsbury, because it was a
general reflection on his character which he could
not meet; whereat the attack on the Honourable
Member stated facts which it was easy to refute. He
thought, therefore, that case wa. a good precedent
to govern the present one.—Mr.IVYNN explained.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL would not give an opinion
upon the punishment which ought to be resorted to
in the case of these individuals. lie thought the
lightest punishment more consistent with the dignity
of the House. In the case alluded to, the Right Hon.
(Gentleman used some words to justify the observa-
tines upon his speech in the Times newspaper. He
rose principally to protest against the insinuation
thrown out by the Noble Marquis, that that side of
the House countenanced publications similar to John
Bull—l Hear, hear).—lt was true a great many papers
had made remarks connected with the support of a
party; but the Noble Marquis was wrong in con-
founding political remarks with attacks on private
character—(icar, hear).—One might be answered,
the other never could. If the Noble Lord, for instance,'
was charged with causing his country men to be flog-
ged in Ireland, the Noble Lord, by a reference to his
public lite, might refute the imputation if it was
unu uo. But a charge against a woman was of a dif-.!
fere.. nature. Suppose a charge was made against
a feniale relation of the Noble Lord's, would he like
that her whole conduct should be scrutinized in
order to prove it false ?—(lieur, hear).—There was
sometliii:g of delicacy in the female character which
shrunk from the gaze of the public eye and ear ; to
prove a malicious charge against her was' untrue, a
woman of delicacy was unwilling to be dragged into
notice—( Hear, hear).—He charged the Noble Lord
with giving countenance to this vile publication—
(tlPar, hear).—He asked the Noble Lord, was it not
sent to the Ambassadors abroad ; and if it did not
argue some degree of Court favour to have it sent
thus post free ?—(Hear, hear).—He charged also that
Ministers countenanced it by buying it; be did not
speak of reading, for on the question of support that
was nothing—(Laughter).—However, if he was con-
vinced that they did so countenance this paper, he
would tell them, without reserve, that they were
guilty of a moral assassination !—(Loud cries of
" Hear, hear r from various parts of the House).

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, he knew
not from what source the Noble Lord had derived
his information and politics ; but he despised the foul
calumny attempted to be cast upon him, from what-
ever quarter it might come—AHear, hear).—lf the
Noble Lord could shew that any person connected
with his (the Marquis of Londonderry's) office, had
circulated statements of so base a description, that
person should be immediately dismissed—(Hear).—
Ile regarded with a mixture of contempt and indig-
nation the charges implied in the speech of the Noble
Lord ; and he could not help observing, that where
interests not less sacred than those involved in the
present question were ac stake, no question had been
raised in that House against the offending patty.—
Yes, he would say, that in cases where Majesty itself
Was insulted and reviled, no notice had been taken—
(Hear, hear).—.He should be glad to know if the
Noble Lord had not taken in the publications of Mr.
Hone ?—( Cries of " No, no !" from Me Opposition
benctia ).—He did not mean to attack the principles
of the Noble Lord, or of his brother, who was not
now present ; but he was led to understand that they
had sanctioned some publications which had issued
from the press of Mr. lion—(Repeated cries of
"No, nor)—lt appeared to him very strange that
the Noble Lord should now come forward with so
much asperity, after he had suffered several libels to
escape his notice which were of a much more repre-
hensible character than the present. At the same time, I
he did not Mail to Say that the Noble Lord did not'
entertain the greatest abhorrence of any unjustifiable
attack upon private characters—( Hear).
Mr. COUtTENAY was anxious to call the atten-
tion of theuse to that which was the true question
to be considered. He admitted that no language,
however strong, could sufficiently reprobate the libel
complained of; but then it ought not to be visited
with a greater measure of severity than others of a
still more atrocious nature. The Honourable and
Learned Member then instanced a certain paragraph
which appeared in a newspaper, reflecting on the
condect of Mr. Canning, and contended that it was
as
eat a breach of privilege as that now brought
the consideration of the House.
bird JOHN RUSSELL, in explanation, denied
having ever taken in any of Mr. Hone's publica-
tions; but he believed they were of a political nature,
and not subversive of private character.
Mr. W. SMITH, though the last man in existence
In call a man to the Bar of the House for a political
,* would still, on ;he present occasion, agree to
tne utmost measure of severity which the House
might be disposed to sanction. It appeared that the
~I"iter of the libel in question was actuated by ma-
ngnant feelings, which might bring about a private
quarrel, and lead to the shedding of blood. He had
m'erted the paragraph upon no other ground than
that of public rumour ; and now, forsooth, he was
to be excused merely because he was a base, worth-

less wretch, who could sport with the private charac-
ter of unsullied purity—(Hear, hear).
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON commented on the enor-
mity of the libel t. and contended that there was no
analogy whatever between it and the charge upon
which Mr. Collier, the Reporter for the Times, had
been brought to the Bar. That Gentleman had acted
in the-most candid and honourable manner. It ap-
peared that he had not the most remote idea of giving
publicity to any statement that would hurt the feel-
ings of the Right Honourable Gentleman who had
brought the complaint before the House.
Mr. WILMOT felt himself called upon to support
the motion ; but deprecated the idea of mixing it up
with any other question, except the abstract libel un-
der consideration.

• Mr. A. BA BING explained, and said that the only
feeling by which the House ought to be actuated was
one that went to the vindication of its own privileges.
Mr. BANKES said he had been a reluctant party
to the vote in the former case.

The Marquis of LONDONDEItRY withdrew his
Amendment ; and said, that the former precedent
would have been more honoured in the breach than
in the rigorous observance of it.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH then suggested to
his Noble Friend (Lord Nugent) the propriety of with-
drawing his Amendment, in deference to the opinion
of the House, which was decidedly against him.
Lord NUGENT observed, that he was ready to
acquiesce, finding that the sentiments of the Hon.
Gentlemen were opposed to his views of the question.
The Noble Lord then withdrew his Amendment.

Mr. BROUGHAM wished to observe, that the
case of Mr. Collier differed materially from the pre-
sent question. That Gentleman had not been guilty
of a wilful misrepresentation ; and the propriety of
his demeanour at the Bar gave additional strength to
the consistent statement he had made. The Hon.
and Learned Member then referred to the particulars
in Mr. Collier's case, and insisted that there was not
the slightest similarity between it and the present of-
fence, which ought to be punished with the heaviest
penalty that the House could inflict.

The House then divided on Mr. BARING'S motion,
and the numbers were:

Ayes -
Noes -

- - - 109
- - - 23

Majority for the Motion

On the re-admission of strangers to the Gallery,
Mr. S. BOURNE was complaining of the severity
of the examination which the parties had undergone
at the Bar, as tending to inculpate themselves. No-
thing could be more unjust than such a proceeding
towards persons accused.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH had heard with surprize
the observations of the Right Honourable Member,
after the question had been disposed of. It seemed
that the Right Hon. Member had listened to state-
ments which lie considered derogatory to the charac-
ter of the House, merely from the apprehension of
exposing himself to obloquy by opposing them. He
(Sir J. Mackintosh) regretted exceedingly that the
Right Hon. Member could have remained silent from
the fear of the popular voice being raised against him.
This would obviously tend to lessen the weight and
authoi ity of the first Assembly in the realm. By the
let et consuetudo Parliamenti, that Assembly had a
right to examine and inquire into all matters relating
to its privileges. If the Right Honourable Gentleman
should have fallen into an error on the subject, he
would have been corrected by those whose duties
made them always.vigilant, in cases where the privi-
leges of the House were concerned, and whose expe-
rience rendered them, in every respect, qualified to
judge when a breach of privilege had taken place.
Mr. STURGES BOURNE explained, and main-
tained, that there was a peculiar hardship in making
witnesses at the bar commit themselves by their ad-
missions. It appeared to him, that no more ques-
tions ought to be asked of any witness than were
merely necessary to develope the facts of the case.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH and Mr. S. BOURNE mu-
tually explained.

Mr. SCARLETT said, that the great object had
been to discover the author, and then to ascertain
the motives by which he was actuated in writing the
libel. Where, therefore, the author of the libel came
forward and avowed himself, the course to be pur-
sued was the next thing the House had to consider.
Sir W. DE CRESPIGNY hoped that the Hon.
Gentleman would do him the credit to believe, that
in the few questions which he had put to the wit-
nesses, he was actuated by a sense of justice, and a
deep interest for the vindication of the privileges of
the House.

Lord NUGENT entered into an explanation of a
question which he had put to one of the witnesses.
He begged to say, that he had not asked a word
about the Traveller Newspaper. He conceived the
Right Hon. Gentleman was not justified in imputing
improper intentions to him.
Mr. S. BOURNE disclaimed imputing any inten-
tion to the Noble Lord. He had merely risen for the
purpose of expressing a difference of opinion upon
the question then before the House.
Mr. WYNN defended the course which had been
taken, and the line of examination that had been
adopted. He was clearly of opinion that Weaver was
guilty of gross prevarication, in his statement about
the proceeds of the Paper.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY suggested
that it would be proper to have the evidence printed
and considered by the House, if they were determined
to proceed with the matter.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to have the names
of the witnesses disunited in the Motion of the Ho-
nourable Member.

Mr. DENMAN expressed himself to the same 1
effect. He begged to say that he had been one of
those who voted in the majority for sending Cooper
to Pariiiunent—(Laughter)—he meant to Newgate ;
and he considered that, in so doing, he was acting
upon the soundest principles of justice—(Hear).
Mr. BERNAL said, that having voted in the mi-
norizy on that occasion, be would claim for himself
the credit of having acted upon the same principles ;
and he could assure the House that be was not guided
in any manner by a doubt that the House had the
power to commit and punish the violators of its
privileges.
Mr. `Y. SMITH was of opinion that the three per-
sons prevaricated exceedingly. He considered there
was no necessity for having the evidence printed ; and
moved, that R. T. Weaver was guilty of grosspreva,
rication at the Bar of that House.

Mr. T. WILSON considered the story with respect
to the transfer of proprietorship very natural, and
therefore was not prepared to declare it untrue, any
more than to affirm that it was true. He did not
think there was any necessity for having the evi-
dence printed.
Lord STANLEY said he had heard the whole of
the evidence, and was prepared to say, that if he ever
witnessed an attempt to defeat the ends of justice by I
gross prevarication, he witnessed it in this instance.
—Hardly.a single question with respect to the pro-
prietorship of the paper was answered in an honest
candid manner. They all seemed to have some con-
cealed purpose, and scarcely in any instance to mean
what they avowed.
The gallery was then cleared for a division on the
question that Robert Thomas Weaver was guilty of
gross prevarication, but the question was carried in
the affirmative without a division.
Whilst strangers were excluded from the gallery,
Mr. W. SMITH moved that Robert Thomas Weaver
be committed to the custody of the Serjeant at Arms,
preparatory to his being xeprimanded by the Speaker;
upon which Mr.WyNN proposed an Amendment, that
he be committed to Newgate. On a division the
numbers were, on the Amendment—

Ayes -
Nuts -

- - 54
- - 27

Majority for the Amendment

- -7

A motion was next made declaring that Shackell
and Arrowsmith were guilty of prevarication, and
an Amendment was proposed, that the minutes of
evidence be printed.
On the re-admission of strangers to the Gallery, Mr.
'BROUGILA NI was on his legs, speaking in favour of
the Amendment.

Mr. C. LONG said he was aware that there was
great doubt that those persons were guilty of preva-
Incation. As the House had now gone so far, and in
consideration of the doubt which prevailed with re-
spect to these persons, he felt it to be his duty to sug-
gest to the House not to proceed any further (Hear).
Mr. BARING rose to express his entire concur-
rence in the suggestion of the Right Hon. Gentle-
man. Ile did not mean to state that the evidence of
those persons was by any means clear evidence, but he
thought that their prevarication was not so apparent
as to justify the House in punishing for it.
Colonel DAVIES had no doubt that they preva-
ricated, and v fished the evidence to be printed.
Mr. WYNN had no doubt that they prevaricated;
but seeing that there was a reasonable doubt on the
minds of several Honourable Members, he thought
it to be his duty to recommend to the House to pro-
ceed no further at present.
The Gallery was again cleared, but no division
took place, and the Amendment for Printing the
Evidence was agreed to.