Star.
London, England, 1827-03-27 00:00:00

be appointed to Inquire into
He did not mean to throw
Gentleman for a deficiAtt
he would at least explain .
cornstanees, this 1,200,0001.
Commissioners ? .In other y....
ratan had brought the Financial ___
before the House at an early period. Now, however,
it was to be postponed to so late a period as May. The
ilitthatk. Fund
Hon. Gentleman 5
o
could not
resvaeyntohfa2t he had now
aOOO
He should like to know the Ways and Means before he
voted so large a sum as 20,000,0001. in Supply. They
d a large army in Portugal, and they mu-t at least
advance the expense of that armament. Perhaps Por-
tugal would ultimately pay it. Of this, however, he
st entertain some doubt, when be recollected what,
they had experienced from other Powers in similar cases.'
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that the Hon. Gentleman, in the course of his speech,
expressed himself unwilling to embarrass him. 'Perhaps
he had no wish to do so, but if be should be drawn, by
anything which bad fallen from the Hon. Gentleman,
into a premature expos tion, he should not only mbar.
ran himself. but embarrass also the public mind, and
do unnecessarily a great deal of mischief. He shoula
decline, therefore, answering his questions, but would'
sot admit, at the same time, either the correnness of
hit statements, or the fairness of his conclusions. It was
impossible that he could have any motive for conceal-
ment. Mystification could answer no purpose whatever,
and after all he could do in such an attempt, it might
be overturned in five minutes by the Hon. Gentleman.
The Hon. Gentleman seemed to think, that because in
former years the state of the finances was brought before
the House at an earlier period, the only reason for put-
ting off the exposition in the present year to a mote dis-
tant period, was, that a flourishing account cduld not
be given of the state of the country. He (the Chancellor'
lel the Exchequer) before distinctly stated to the House
the grounds of the (Hay. He stated that at the
dose of the last year it was judged necessary to send
out an armament to Portugal. Now it was impossible
for him to foresee what the expenses of this would be.
Until the effect produced by this step was seen, no per-
son could judge with any thing like probability, what
time the army was likely to remain, or to what amount
the finances of the country were likely to be influenced
by it. When the message of his Majesty was commu-
nicated to the House, they were nearly unanimous in
their determination to do all that was necessary to en-
able his Majesty to fulfil his engagements with an
antient Ally. Had they hesitated one moment to re-
deem the pledge then given, it might have been pro-
ductive of the very worst effects. He must however
beg leave to remind the Committee of the course he
had hitherto pursued, and it would prove that be
could be actuated, personally, by no motives, to post-
pone unnecessarily a statement of the finances of the
gauntry. In January, 1823, he was appointed to
the office which he now filled. It was then quite
new to him, and of course he had his lesson to learn.
However, on the 21st of February following he brought
forward his statement of the finances, and the House
had met only at the beginnigg. t that month. Next
pest he brought it forward on-Me23d February, and
'took an opportunity then of informing the House that
the principle by which he should be guided was to sub-
"it a eneral statement of the finances at the earliest
s.4bti
• wig of the Session. fit the following year
traree his alternation the 3101 h February; and
Ilan year Oaths 13th March. It was not his fault that
it had been delayed so long last year. He was folly
prepared to bring it forward earlier, but be was driven
off from day to day, in consequence of the important
discussions then going forward 'relative to the state of
the currency. This, he trusted, would be sufficient to
prove that he felt no disposition to put off to a late pc-'
tied of the Session the consideration of those matters. But
at the same time he newer was, and never could be so
absurd, as to pledge himself to bring such a subject for-
ward at any given time. The best course must be to
take the time most convenient is every point of view
for the public service. Nothing but the peculiar cir-
cumstances to which he before adverted could induce
im to postpone it at present; but he would put it to
the House, whether it could answer any good purpose
to enter now into a discussion, which could not be ren-
dered intelligible, unless it was fully gone into? At
present he meant only to call for a small vote for the
civil contingencies.
Mr. MABERLY said it was not to the. postponement
of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement he objected.
What he wished wat that the Supply should not be se-
parated from the Ways and Means, that they should be
brought on together.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY said they had a right to com-
plain when they were thus called upon to vote the Army,
Nay band Ordnance Esti m ates,a m oil n t ing to 20,000,0001.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.—Net
so much, fifteen millions.
Sir J. WROTTESLEY.—He did not care twenty
or fifteen. Unless the Right Honourable Gentleman
had some hidden treasure, he did not know how he
was to get it. The reveane was deficient. They
must, therefore, either reduce their taxes or reduce
their establishments. The affairs of the cottatry
might be managed at much less expense. He
should oppose any new tax, and would meet such;
a proposition by one for-the reduction of expendi-
ture. The sooner the delusive Sinking Fund was
done away wittrthe better. The best thing the Com-
missioners of 'the Sinking Fund could do was, to
take all the stock they had into the market, and pay
off Exchequer Bills with it. He deprecated any in-
crease of Exchequer Bills. The amount already in
circulation was twenty millions, the whole of which
they might be called upon to pay at a moment's
notice if anything of a serious nature should occur
his the Continent. The interest was low, to be
lure; but see in what a state they were last year.—
They were then obliged to fund Exchequer Bills
at 107/. when it might have been done previously
at 1001. At one time they were at a premium of 61.
and in a month after fell to a discount of 41. per cent.
in the market. Now it was true they were at a pre-
mium ; but would this continue if any thing similar to
what occurred Last sear should take place ? He recom-
mended to the Right Honourable Gentleman to take as
many Exchequer Bills as he could out of the market.
They would then be free next year either to carry on a
war, if necessary, or to as.ist their own merchants.

Mr. HU'alE said, he must protest against the delay
of the Right Hon. Gentleman in bringing his statement
forward. He had assigned no suffi:ient reason for it.
However, it the), had no trust in Government, they
could not espect that me4sures would be brought be-
fo. e the House. In the pree:it state of the country the y
should not vote supplies without knowing where the

0f4,000,0001.
to know why
years were not
lECiLIER
of tha•. The

only reason assigned by the Right Hon. Gentleman for
not bringing forward his statement was, that the et.
penses of the armament to Portugal could not yet be
known. That was the veil. reason why the Hoof
should demand the statement, that they might know the
probability of their being able to meet the exposes
They talked of the honour of the country, of the nem.
city of supporting it, but how was it to be done wi hest
a sufficient income? He should be most unwilling 1,,
pretiothe Right Hon. Gentleman if he could assign any
sufficient reason for the delay.
Mr. MABERLY said, he had no objectien to vote a
sum on account. He trusted, however, the Right Hon.
Gentleman would give the House some assurance, that
in future the financial statement would not sot be put
off to so late a period.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
he did not see the necessity for entering intagsny sods
pledge. He had given the House no reason to distill'
his intentions, or to suppose that he was not envious
bring forward his Soancial statement at the earliest pow
sible period.
The SresICIR having left the Chair,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER pro-
posed the following Resolution : That a sum of
200,0001. be voted on account for defraying the charge
of the Civil Contingencies.

Mr: HUME said, be must repeat his objection to the
principle of voting money in supply without a statement
of Ways and Means. As there were some young Mem-
bers in the House who might not have attended to these
matters, -he would beg leave to state a few portico.
tars, for the purpose of 'hewing the expense incurred by
the country for diplomacy alone. The sum voted fpr this
purpose last year, under the bead of the Civil Lift,
was 826,0001. and there were extraordinary expense
amounting to 100,0001. more. Last year the expense of
their Minister in France for building a new palace
bet weenl7,oool.and 18,0001. besides the salary ofll,oool
This year there was an addition of 12,5861. to th •
11,0001. making between 29,0001. and 24,0001. A proe
portionate increase took place in all the foreign missions-
The whole would amount this year to nearly ball a mil.
lion sterling, including the missions to America.
Within the last nine years their expenses under this bead
amounted to no less than 8,000,0001. How could they
reconcile these things to themselves, when they recol-
lected that thousands of their countrymen were starving
' and in rags ? In America, where the highest salary of an
Ambassador did not exceed 2,0001. the business was as
well done. The present expense of the diplomacy was
double that of 1795. There was no occasion for so many
missions to the Coen of BAWL They would only spoil
the young Emperor by this excessive attention. The first
was that of the Duke of Wellington, which cost 6,5861.
He thought the Duke of Devonshire was to pay all the
expenses of his mission ; that, as the personal acquain-
tance of the Eusperor—(a laugh)--he bad determined
before to pay hint a visit,' and lid not wish to put the
country to any expense. However, the charge was
10,0001. This was in addition to the expense of a resi-
dent Ambassador. They were now about to send the
Marquis of Hertford on another mission, making three
within the year. The mission of Sir Charles Stuart to
the New World- cost 12,0001. besides 1,0001. for his
Secretary, Lord Hill. The presents to Foreign Ambas-
sadors iti':nuff•boxes cost 25,0001. He wished to know
whether England received any presents in return ? In
the East it was considered an insult if the same amount
received in presents was not returned. Among the
other presents was one to the Colombian Minister; value
1,9631. This was a badiexample in a Republican Go-
vernment. The Duke of Northumberland had a done
tion of a diamond-hilted sword, value 10.8001. He

thought that minion was tobaire cost the country nothing.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, as this vote had
been proposed only on account by his Right Hon.
Friend, and as they would have future opportunities of
fully considering the subject, he should not have non-
' bled the Committee were it not for some names men-
sioned by the Hon. Gentleman. The Duke of Nor-
thumberland did certainly take upon himself the whole
expense of his minion to France upon the occasi m of
his present Majesty's Coronation. But so far was be
(Mr. C.) from approving of the principle, that he dis-
tinctly stated his opinion, that in missions of this kind
the persons discharging them, however high in rank or
fortune, should not be put to the expense. It was
judged proper, that as his Grace had borne all the
charge he should receive some marks of public acknow-,
ledgment. With respect to the Duke of Devonshit e's
sion to St. Petersburgb, he would ask the Hon. Gentle-
man (Mr. Hume) whether he thought 10,0001. would
pay one-third of the expense? It was against his wish
that the third Mission alluded to by the Learned Gen-
tleman, was to be undertaken at the expense of the
Noble Marquis himself.
Mr. HUME said be had a recollection of its having
been stated from lime quarter that the Missions to
France and Russia were to have been without expense.
He recollected that the Right Hon. Gentleman, upon a
former occasion, informed the House that the purchase
of the Palace for their Ambassador to the Court of
France would be a great saving.
Mr. Secretary CANNING said, the Palace hid been
purchased in 1816, when he was not in office. He knew
no more of it than the Hon. Gentleman himself. About
two years back it was a subject for consideration,whether
it would be better to get rid of it altogether, or to have
it repaired? Surveyors went to France, and they re-
commended that it should be repaired. The Hon.
Member put together the accidental expenses of repairs
and the salary of the AMbassador, and charged both as
if they were a regular yearly expense of 23,0001. If a
man were to build a house which cost 30,0001. would it
be fair to add that to his income of 10,0001. and to say
he spent 40,0004 a year?
In answer to a question from Mr. J. MARTIN,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
he should hare no objection to furnish a full account of
the expens-s hitherto incurred, aad likely to be incurred,
in the repairs of the Custom House.

After a few words from Mr. Hums, the Resolution
was agreed to.
THZ sattfsß sausaws.
Mr. BANKED moved that the sum of 3,0001. be
granted to his Majesty on account of the estimated ex-
pense of the Btitish Museum.
Mr. W ARBURTON complained. of the practice of voting money
for this establishment in the lump, because he understood the trus-
tees were divided as to the manner in which it should afterward.
be appropriated. It was his opinion that this overitown establish-

to ibis matter and set h right.' ways and moans were to be (soca ;nand
any blaimeon the Right Hos. they bad only 1 siva mu He begged
revenue, bat he trusted that the unappropriated balances of former y
s how, under the present sir. before the House?
came to be laid out by the The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHI
r years the Right Hon. Gentle. they are upon the table.
nancial State of the country Mr. HUME said, he was not aware
• .. ffff