Star.
London, England, 1817-03-06 00:00:00

previsions were lower than at most others, Ballina,
lour persons were killed the other day, and seventeen
wounded! The disturbance had its origin in severe
distress, and in an apprehension that by any exporta-
tion of the food they possessed to other places, they
would themselves be subjected to famine. This
mighebe a mistaken idea, but he was convinced that
it had alone given rise to the disturbances. At this
early period of the year, sl long before any relief
could he expected from the next crop, any deficiency
in the supply of food was a calamity of a most se-
rious nature. Whan he considered that no supplies
could be obtained from this island—that in England
the crop had been very deficient, and that Scotland
had suffered must severely—when he considered that
in Ireland the crop was deficient, not only in quantity,
but in quality also—that the potatoe crop, that most
important part of the food of the people in Ireland,
had not only been deficient in quantity, but of such a
.quality that it was found impossible to preserve it—it
became of the utmost importance to inquire what the
amount and state of the food is Ireland actuaUy was,
that every practicable measure might be taken to
guard against the evils which would result from a
deficiency of supply. He should not have ventured
on recommending this measure, had he not been in-
formed by many most respectable persons' in Ireland,
some of them Members of that House, that the sup-
ply of food in Ireland was so inadequate, that the
most serious consequences were to be apprehended
means were not immediately resorted to for the pur-
pose of averting them. The object which he had in
proposing this inquiry was two-fold—the one was,
that a stop might be put to the Distillation of
Grain—the other that Government at an early period
while it could be done with advantage, might make
such purchases, either at home or abroad, as would
ensure to the people in Ireland an adequate supply of
food during the Summer months. No person was
more unwilling than himself that Government should
interfere in a subject of this nature—the interference
of Government was, he believed, generally mischie-
vous. The question was, whether the present occasion
was such as to form an exception to the rule, and to
call for the interference of Government ? On former
occasions Government had thought proper to inter-
fere, and to give orders for procuring from abroad a
supply of food adequate to the deficiency. He alluded
more particularly to the scarcities of 1800 and 1812.
In both these years Government took precautions to
avert the calamity of a famine. In 1800, Lord Corn-
wallis, by sepding orders to Ametica at an early part
of the year, provided against the emergency which he
foresaw. That year oats were sixteen shillings the
barrel. At present oats were twenty-three shillings
the barrel. That year oatmeal was twenty-two shil.
lings the hundred. This year it was twenty-eight
shillings the hundred. In 1800, the crop, though de-
ficient in quantity, was excellent in quality ; so that
the grower was not under the necessity of bringing
it immediately to market. But this year the quality
was so bad, that there was a necessity for forcing it
prematurely to the market. He was aware that the
Government of Ireland had, at an early period, en-
deavoured to ascertain the state of the crop in Ire-
land ; but when this inquiry took place, much of the
crop was still on the ground, nothing of which could
be got in, and the potatoe crop was chiefly on the
ground. With respect to the efficacy of the measure,
for prohibiting distillation, he did not wish to over-
rate it. The distilleries must have worked pretty
nearly the quantity of spirits requisite for the supply
of the country. He might be told that if they had
distilled nearly the requisite quantity of spirits, little
good could be expected from a prohibition to distil ;
but it was to be considered that the distillers bad con-
siderable quantities of grain on hand, which would,
in consequence of the prohibition, be thrown into the
market. He bad good reason for believing that
throughout a great psrt of Ireland there was not
three months consumption of food such as the people
used. If any thing was to be done in this matter,
unquestionably, the sooner it was done the better.
The greater the delay, the higher would be the price.
If the people were at present unable to purchase at the
existing prizes, what would their situation be when
the price of provisions was doubled in amount ? The
proviaions obtained to meet the deficiency of Ireland
ought to be dispersed at a rate within the ability of
the people. The rate of labour was at present ex-
tremely low in Ireland, and all the public works were
at a stand. It might be supposed by some. that in
calling for an investigation into the subject, from the
time which would be taken up in the investigation,
the object which he had in view would be defeated;
but he was confident that the importance of the sub-
ject would force on a quick investigation. He con-
cluded with moving for a prompt investigation into
the amount and state of human fond in Ireland, with
a view to determine whether it might be expedient to
atop she distillation from grain in Ireland.
Mr. PEEL was most willing to admit that there was
aothiok in the manner in which this subject had been
taken up by the Honourable Gentleman opposite cal-
culated to embarrass the Government either of this
country or of Ireland, or to produce an undue im.
premien on the public mind. And if by the agita
don of the subject in the House that sort of salutary
sprosoostoo should bejroduced which might lead
to a more sparing use •F Masan food, so far from
being prejudicial, it aright be productive of consider-
able advaxs. 'MS Was die very last subject re-,
spuds& Government ought to suffer them-
selm to be unduly actuated by public impressions.
Government ought not even to be actuated by the
impressions of boom and well meaning men, who
bad not the same means of information as them-
selves. If they were satisfied that the stopping of the
distilleries would not be productive of such advan-
tages as would compensate for the mischief resulting
from such a measure, they ought to resist it. He
agreed with the Honourable Gentleman, that if a
stoppage of the distilleries could increase the supply
of food, every consideration merely of a financial na-
ture ought to give way. The loss of revenue, from
the encouragement which would be given to illicit
distillation, from the cessation of legal distillation
was not to be put in competition with the subsistence
of the people. The first thing to be considered was,
first, if there was reason to apprehend a deficiency of
the supply of human food in Ireland ? and, secondly,
if there was season for apprehending a deficiency,
Whether a prohibition of distillation would have a
tendency to increase the supply? He thought be
should be able to satisfy the Honourable Gentleman

and the House that a prohibition of distillation would
not lead to the result which he anticipated frdm it.—
The question was not merely whether they would
prohibit distillation in Ireland ? The trade with this
island was free, and consequently such a prohibition
would give to the English distiller a preference in the
Irish market. He might be told, indeed, that it was
possible to stop also the intercourse between the two
countries. But would it be expedient not merely to
stop all legal distillation in Ireland, but also to sus-
pend all intercourse between the two countries in ar-
ticles the produce of either ? But he would confine
himself to the question, whether the prohibition of
distillation was likely to have the effect of leading to
an increase in the supply of food ? In the first place,
he would agree with the Honourable Gentleman that
the supply of last harvest was not so defective in
quantity as quality. This was best proved by the
variations in the prices of the same article. Accord-.
ing to the last market note which he had received
from Dublin, oats varied from eight shillings to 225.
the barrel, wheat from twenty-one shillings to ninety-
, two shillings, and barely from fourteen shillings to
thirty-eight shillings. If they were to deprive the
small farmers of the market for their inferior grain,
which could only be worked up in the distilleries,
they would only aggravate the distress of the coun-
try. A very considerable portion of the food of last
crop could not be converted into human subsistence.
With respect to the probable savings of food from the
stoppage of distillation, he would leave the House to
judge what increase of supply could be expected from
this source. The quantity of spirits distilled last year
in Ireland, on which ditty was paid, amounted to
3,600,000 gallons. From the circumstances of the
times, by which all ranks, high and low, were affected,
a diminution in the amount of this year was to be
expected. The power of purchasing luxuries in high
and low was abridged; though whiskey could not
be considered in the light of a luxury to the lower
orders. In that damp climate, and from long habit,
it was almost an article of the first necessity.—
By a Return which would be laid before the House
to-morrow—and he begged to call the attention of
the House to this point—a Return which was brought
up to the sth of February, a complete month having
since elapsed, it appeared that the quantity distilled
this year amounted to 2,000,000 gallons. It appeared,
therefore, that up to the sth of February, two-thirds
of the quantity of last year were already distilled;
and he had not the least doubt, but that before the
present motion could be acted on the whole stock of
spirits would be made. For, in any regulation affect-
ing the distilleries, it would always be necessary to
allow them to work up the quantity of gritin bought
by them, and unfit for any other purpose. It should
be borne in mind, in speaking of distillation from
grain, that the whole of the corn so employed was
not lost to the purposes of supporting life. It was
calculated that four barrels of grains, after the spirit
had been extracted, would go as far in that way as
one barrel of corn, so that it might be reckoned, that
one quarter of the grain so employed was not lost to
the purposes of subsistence, but went to increase the
quantity of pork or milk, or other articles available
to food. It should also be considered, that one of the
evils attending the stoppage of the regular distilleries
would be the stimulus thus given to illegal distilla-
Ition, which would probably cause on the whole an
increase of the consumption of corn. As a proof that
no scarcity of grain was sufficient to put an end to
this illegal distillation, he should only mention what
had occurred in the North of Ireland, where the di..
tress had been most peculiarly felt. In Ireland, he
should observe in passing, a partial distress, however
severe, was not indicative of a general scarcity, as
nsight be proved by the difference of the prices in
different parts of that island at present, they being
actually double in some places what they were
in others. This arose from the want of those facili-
ties of internal communication which existed in this
country, and also from the circumstance, that persons
were generally in the habit of raising the food fur
their own families, so that there were none of those
great markets so common in England. In the North
of Ireland, where, he had observed, the distress was
greatest, there were 200 prosecutions for what were
called Still-fines (penalties imposed on townships on
account of illicit stills found within their limits for
prosecution) in one county. They had heard much
said in the last Session (and justly) of the severity of
the laws against illicit distillation. But if, as thus
appeared, these severe Jaws had not been effectual to
prevent illicit distillation, the House might judge
what the effects would be, if a further stimulus was
given to.that practice. The effect, be thought, would
be, that the illegal distiller, thus receiving encourage-
ment, would work up even good corn, which the re-
gular distiller abstained from using. The illicit dis-
tiller, in producing a given quantity of spirits, con-
sumed one-third of grain more than the regular dis-
tiller, from want of capital and skill. He was likely,
too. to use the best 'ern, because he would not run a
greater risk of discovery. When it was to be consi-
dered, that, in addition to the other circumstances. it
would be at least a month before the stoppage could
be effected, he was persuaded the proposed measure
would not save one barrel of corn. As to the recom-
mendation of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. M.
Fitzgerald) to the Irish Government, to consider the
question attentively, he (Mr. Peel) could assure the
House that they had not been inattentive to the ques-
tion : but as to the inquiry with a view to the stop-
page of Distillation, he decidedly objected to the
measure, because such an inquiry as it would alarm
the distillers, would cause them to take all measures
to increase their present distillation, and also to sub-
mit the CM is their possession, or which they could
procure, to such processes as would render it unfit
for any other purposes bet distillation. What could
prevent them while this inquiry was going on, from
visaing all the grain in their possession, or setting all
the mills in the country at work ? On these grounds
be conceived the motion would produce misthief ra-
ther than good. He should add, that the Irish Go-
vernment had taken all practicable means in its power
to obviate the dangers of scarcity, especially by taking
oa themselves the responsib;lity of admitting Ameri-
can Hour, which the letter of the law did not permit.
The Government bad thought fit to admit it by a
Treasury Order, not so much for the purpose of con-
sumption alone, but for the purpose of mixing with
the flour or inferior grain. The Right Hon. Gentle. 'I
man concluded by apologising for so long occupying
the time of the House—(Hear, hear.) '
Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that till he bad

heard the observations of de Right Honourable
Gentleman, be had doubt whether or nos Govern-
ment ought to itarfere. But now he was so im-
pressed by what had fallen from him upon the pre-
sent occasion, that he had no longer any doubts, and
was of opinion that no measure that could now be
taken would increase the quantity of human food,
but rather have a contrary tendency. Much of the
tern on hand could be applied only to distillation,
and was unfit for the purposes of human food. The
farmer was now employed in sowing his spring corn, ,
and should he be unable to find a market for his un-
sound corn, would not be able to purchase a suffi-
cient quantity for the next year, and thus the next
crop be materially injured, and no good be done at
present. Though he in general deprecated legislative
interference in such matters, yet he should not hesi-
tate to have recourse to it, if he apprehended a scar-
city. He would recommend it to his Honourable
Friend to withdraw his motion. Much good would
be done when it was seen that the Executive Govern-
ment and Parliament were in unison• upon the sub-
ject, and no additional supply of food would be pro-
cured by acceding to the motion.
Sir R. FERGUSSON said, that as a part of
Scotland was in a condition not less distressing than
Ireland, he should take this opportunity of calling
the attention of his Majesty's Ministers to that part
of the kingdom. From letters which he had received
from the Highlands, it appeared that the crops had
almost entirely tailed ; and what they would do in
the summer before the harvest came in, the people
did not know; they apprehended, indeed, little less
than famine. It was -impossible in some places fur
the farmers to find corn to put in the ground. He
had forwarded several petitions through the Secretary
of State to the Prince Regent, ior the prohibition of
distillation from grain—one particularly from a most
respectable body of men, the fumes of Fifeshire,
who petitioned much against their own interests,
merely from a feeling for the distresses of the people.
On that question he should say nothing ; but should
suggest to the Ministers the necessity of inquiries re-
specting the quantity of food in the Highlands.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
observed, that Ministers would not have done their
duty had they not done all in their power to procure
accurate information. Nothing had been left undone
on the part of the Irish Government. In Scotland a
moderate supply of grain would be of much service.
The object of interference on the part of Government
should be, to procure a communication betwixt one
part of the country and another, and it might be ne-
cessary to look at the state of the Highlands. Both
Government and Parliament were generally too ready
to interfere on such occasions—(/her, hear) ; and of
the immense sums formerly expended in this way, a
great part had bees thrown away. It had only served
to promote the interest of the importers. The bid
quality, and not the deficiency in quantity, of grain,
was the cause of the distress; and the great difference
in the prices :hewed that part of it could only be em-
ployed in the purposes of distillation.
Mr. BARING agreed rith the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman as to the general impolicy of interference on
the part of Government, and hoped it would be at-
tended to in future. The best plan would be to leave
the intercourse open. Corn had been sent from this
country to France, where the price had nearly doubled.
Much corn had been brought from the warehouses
wheie it had been deposited, in consequence or the
provisions of that most valuable measure the Corn
Bill. The only interference that could take place in
the event of great distress, would be the suspension
of the distilleries, and though -that measure might
not be of any service now, it might have been pro-
ductive of advantage had it been resorted to at an
earlier period.
General MITCHEL stated, that in Belfast the
price of barley was so low that it could only be em-
ployed in distillation.
Mr. CALVERT was desirous of learning why the
corn in the possession of the distillers could not be
applied to other purposes ? He did not see why corn,
either ground or whole, could not be applied to the
purposes of human food.
Mr. PEEL observed in answer, that the corn in
the possession of the distillers was subjected to a pro-
cess, that in a great measure, though not wholly,
I made it unfit to be made use of as food. As to cl -
dilation from sugar, every one Who was acquainted
v ith the character of the Irish peasant knew well,
that he would not consume much whiskey made from
sugar, when he could have recourse to that made
from illicit distillation.

Mr. CALVERT said, that in England scarcely
one-filth of the corn used in distilleries was malted.

Mr. V. FITZGERALD stated, that the grain in
the hands of the brewers underwent the process of
crushing. The illicit distillation was from malt only.
On the sth of February 235,000 gallons of whiskey
had been distilled, which Was more than two-thirds
of what was required for the annual supply ; which
chewed that an earlier suspension would not have an-
swered the end. Distillers had been the only put.
chasers of the unsound grain for distillation.
Mr. BARING wished to know why the distilleries'
had not been stopped in October last e
Mr. PEEL stated, that the distilleries did not be-
gin to work till November, and that the Government
had no power to suspend them. -But admitting that
the distilleries might have (wen suspended, Govern-
ment certainly had no power to suspend an Act of
the Union, permitting intercourse between the two
countries; and without the suspension of that Act the
suspension of the distiller*, would be of no benefit.
Mr. M. FITZGERALD ( Knight of Kerry) would
not press a division, as his object was attained, in
having brought the subject before the House, and in
the discussion it had undergone. if Government
apprehended a danger of scarcity, they would, no
doubt, stop the distilleries, and make the grain avail.
able for food. The malt in the distilleries was from
raw grain, and of that food could be made. In the
Resent price of oats there was no temptation to the
illicit against the legal distiller. With the leave of
the House he should withdraw the Motion.
The Motion was accordingly withdrawn.
NEW COINAGE.

Mr. BROUGHAM, seeingia Right Honourable
Gentleman (Mr. W. Pole) in place, would move
for copies of all letters received by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer from Magistrates in the country on
the subject of the new coinage, and also all commu-
nications made either by the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer or the Master of the Mix, on the subject of

I

the exchange of old silver currency. He ?t.! -• •
informed that one of the regulations issued from .1•
thority was, that all smooth shifting. of stand .• •
fineness should be received, and that thh rule h.:
been departed from, to the serious 104 „, n,,„3.
viduals. With respect to the new silver correac.•
he could not but applaud the celerity with which t
had been distributed through the country. But be.
thought a Igent evil existed, which might he felt ew-
tensively after a while. It arose from there t•ein..
two species of money of different standards in th
hands of the public at the same time—the Bar
dollars, which were of the nominal value of 6s. 8
per ounce, from the price of silver mien they sees.
issued, and the new coinage, which Was at the nu
minhl value of .ss. 6d. only. Had he been eskeh
for his opinion upon this paint before :he recent issue,
he should have said that one would drive the teller
from circulation, that that of the lowest n ((((( inal
value would have disappeared, and the other resintri•
But esperience had shewn that such a consequence
could not fairly be predicted; for notwitt stealing
the facilities which existed, at least in neihhboticitir
countries, to destroy and melt down the new coin, no
part of it, he believed, had disappeared. Ac tur:l
material difference existed between the dollar and the
new money circulation, he thought the doll?..• nti•.!•l
be regarded as a promissory metallic note, hlheli.da.
Bank would pay at some time or other i s so
current coin—(Hear, hear.) It might sii.:
new coin was sate, because persons heuld rat. e: m ;
bullion, as they would thereby get sd.
than by destroying the currency ; btu wthr. .ei.to •
was there that silver would not rise t. the mica
which it was some time ago. namely. 74. per het ,
or thereabout? Gold had finetuarcd between
and £5 I Is. not a great while ago, e.hile tt.„ r
price was under £1; and a propo.tienate tittc.o-i; •
might happen in the price of silver, at :::.•
tree money would be iihble to tne same t!, . •
which had carried off nearly the whole or I:.
currency. The new silver money would he
long as silver did not rise trona Ss. Id. to 51,0 t.
ss. 6d. foe at that price there would th r.
ment to melt it, but let it get a pettily • .. .
pence still higher in the ounce, and it
begin to slide out of circulation—Wear, /war,
It was the opinion of a predecessor of die Rig a 1i •-
nourable Gentleman, certainly a man nut w highly
connected, or of so much political importance and
high attainments, but still a man whose opinions acre
worthy of some attention ; it was the opinion of Sir
Isaac Newton that 3d. in the guinea wad end ingee
the circulation; but now, if the price of silver slihold
rise as before, about Is. 6d. in ss. or 6s. in the guitha,
,the danger to the circulation would he imnsiaent.—
' Now the Bank, with one stroke of the pen, could send
the whole out of circulation, by the issue of a 1:11:4C
amount of paper money. If, in tact, they were to da
now as they had done before, the whole would be
gone. He did not mean to speak di:respe:ttully oil
the Honourable Director.: ; ind:ed, he respected
them so much that he feared them. (Lear, bar, .teat
a Jaark.) Such were the interencei whica he had
drawn on the subject, and he thought it right to this to
them out in the beginning, before the mi.ctrel cane
upon the ceuntiy. To him it appeased neccscity,
therefore, that some measures should he adopt d with
respect to the Bank, which might tend protein the
evil, or rather, in the more popular language on this
subject, that the Bank should be let alone, that the
restriction should be removed, and the Directors be
allowed to pay all demands in specie. (Hear, /her.)
There was another point, certainly of interior impor-
tance, upon which he should say a few words. it
was a general opinion, that there was a great detect
on the head side of the die, the likeness of his MA.
jesty was' extremely bad; in fact, it was no I:kcne-as
at all, and was very inferior in execution ; bet to
make up for this imperfection, there was an sciditioa
on the reverse, he believed, which, though not cbciou;
to the naked eye, might be seen with a magnitying
glass. This was the insertion of the R• +t !loin et -
able Gentleman's cypher W.W.P. med.:, it Put urna
the coin of the realm— (Hear, hem., and a /el,-54).—
This he believed was a new device, the use of wu eh,
whatever tumult', it reflected, was due to the Rivi.;
Honour:46:e Gentleman. lie believed there teas ric•
thing an the kind done by Sir Isaac Newton. P.
haps, however, it might be urged, that tne
Honourable Gentleman was not twiny II:1'0111W •.1
by precedent ; because, as was well kaewn, it a• as
one of the astich:s of impeachment against Caratin:•l
Wilsey, ;hit lie had introduced his Cardinal's lo .t
on the King's coin ; but he (Mr. Brougham) sl.e.
not wish to cart), matters so far against the Kiwi....
Honourable Gentleman—( Hear, /oar, ond a I j.
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman can:mfr.:
by moving for copies of all letters from
in the country to the Chancellor of the Tier,
on the subject of the new coin.
Mr. W. W. POLE was rather surprised thtt the
common courtesy of the House had not induced ti's
Honourable and Learned Member (Mr. Brougi.arr.)
to take another method of gaining any infer
he wanted. than that which he now adopted. lh•
(Mr. W. W. Pole) should have had no objection t••
have answered him any question, or given
information which was in his power, am' c..nsis. • 7.
with his duty. He had been in the nottia on s :•"•
occasions since the Honourable an 4 Learned ,7:tr.•.!
before alluded to this subject, and was re:•dy t • ry.
him on it. But, instead of taking such opt
the Honourable and Learned M:inbes nitv cat: • • •
ward and made a very uncalled for att,rl,: r 4
(Mr. W. W. Pole). If he understood t'e.. 10•-•
of the Honourable and Learned Member, it h.+. • -
copies of all correspondence which passed ththe
Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Mehhh. ;
the country, respecting the issue and debt, "
new coin. To this he should say, tha: it '
respondence took place it was unknown . f ••• .
that this was the first time he ever heard •
'and Learned Member seemed to think h
instructions and rules were given to the
which were complied with in the issue of the 7 s
coinage, and that such rules were calcalve.l to • • •
the subject. lie should again observe, that i.
rules cr instructions were given, be vas not a-•.• •
them, and he did net think they were :rat at..'
There were indeed some instructions sent b 7
(Mr. W. Pole) to the several persons who had t'••. -
perintendance of the delivery. They we., most : • •
fully complied with, and the manlier .•i
the sevehel places at the 3411 C time, 1-•
had given humid aatialhhtiun—(lfear, n.

1
I •