Star.
London, England, 1827-06-23 00:00:00

Ilditt MATT MISSIONS BILL.

This Bill wat ordered to be

The Earl of CARBERRY said, he wished to take that oppor-
tunity of observing, that all the Irish Bills came up to their Lind-
ships House at so late a period of each Session that it was impos-
sible to pay the proper attention to them. The consequence was,
that in the neat Session they found it expedient to make amend-
ments which never would have been necessary if they originally had
sufficient time to examine and consider the nature of these Bills.—
He hoped, therefore, that, fir the'future, care would be taken to
have these Bills sent up to their Lordships in proper time.

Cr>RN AVIMAORS.

The House having resolved itself into a Committee os the Corn
Averages Bill,
Viscount GODERICH moved, that the words ap-
plicable to the Bill which had been abandoned be
struck out of the second clause, for the purpose of in-
serting these—s 4 For duly regulating the importation
of Foreign Corn, Meal, and Flour, into the United
Kingdom for consumption."—Agreed to.
-Lord FARNHAM moved, that the words u British
Corn" be omitted, and these substituted instead, " the
grt.wth of the Uuited Kingdom of Great Britain and
Ireland." _ _

Vi.count GODEIUCII thought, that the object of
the Noble Lord would be answered by a proviso whim
he meant to propose—.. tha: alt Corn or Grain, the
produce of the United Kingdom, should be deemed to
be Briti.h Corn." _ _ _

-Lord FARNHAM said, that he still considered his
'amendment necessary, for, unless it were made, he
could not conveniently move, as he intended, for the
addition of certain towns in Ireland and Scotland. He
was extremely anxious to have the mat kets of these
countries included in the hat, because the great object
ought to be to bring the truth before the country, and
he considered that there was no measure better calcu-
lazed to promote this object. If the intioduetion of '
these towns would reduce the averages, he contended
that formerly a false principle had beets acted upon,
and that false awes ages had been given. He could him-
self declare that the present system had created much
dissatisfaction iu Ireland, for the people invariably found
that the prices quoted as average prices, were bights:
then they could ever get. For himself he would say,
that he was chiefly induced to advocate the change to
which he had alluded, from an anxious wish that they
should have real averages and real duties, and that they
sh uld be enabled to speak in intelligible language—in
language which they themselves, and ss hitt' the coun-
try, could understand. The Noble Lord then stated,
that he also objected to another clause of the Bill, which.
in his mind, conferted upon the King in Council too
great a poser of raising or depressing the averages, by
changing the towns from the matkets of which the
are' ages were regulated. He then said he would move,
that the words cities and towns of England and %Vides
should be left out of the first clause, and that the words
'cities and towns of'Great Britain and Ireland should be in-
serted in their stead ; and read a list of the towns in Scut-
land and Ireland he wished to have included in it.
Viscount GODERICH said, he had 4reilt objections
to having these towns of Ireland and Scotland placed
upon the list, because the circumstance of so doing
,would make a most matetial difference in the law as it
then stood. Their Lordships would recollect that the
present measure was intended to be brought forward as
concurrent with another measure that had received the
approbation ot the other House, and he begged tt eir
Lordships to consider, that if these towns were, ender
existing circumstances, introduced, it would create a
great change in the present law, which applied to the
ort.atioa of foreign corn. The law in existence had
been famed upon the under standing that the averages
were to be taken after a certain manner; and now, if
they were to add a number of other towns to the list,
it certainly would produce effects that had not been
calculated upon by the framers of that law. This, he
contended, would be unreasonable, and must inevitably
produce much mischief before a new Corn Law could
be constructed, the provisions of which should be calcu-
lated to meet the new arrangement. He felt the full
force of the Noble Lord's r bjection to the clause con
ferring a discretionary power, in changing the list of
towns, upon the King in Council, and he thought that
perhaps it might be proper to leave the clause out when
they came to that pats of the Ibll in which it lay—
(Hear, heal). He begged to obs:rve, however, that it
differed very little from that clause which had hem
introduced into the Bill of 1822, and highly ap-
ptoved of at that time. The only difference, in fact, was
that a representation from a bOdy of magistrate. was
declared unnecessary. lie repeated, that he had no
objection to leaving out the clause; bot he had the very
strongest objections to having the towns of Ireland and
Scotland included in the first clause. Such a measure
would have a most violent effect upon the law, and
would, in fact, place it upon a basis entirely different.
He was afraid the Noble Lord had not sufficiently con
sidesed what would be the effect of his amendment, or
-bow it could be practically c- rried into execution. Did
the Noble Lord intend, for instance, that the inspector
for Dublin should to appointed by the Lord Mayor,
scc. as in London? And how did he propose to have
the averages settled there? The fact was, that the dB.-
feient towns of Ireland could not, like the towns of
England, be brought into the list of averages bet ore the
15:Is of August next. It was peifectly, it was utterly
impossible, from a variety of causes, and third, re it
was evident that these would be none of that adv.'s.
tage (f precision which the Noble Lord anticipated dui-
'in that short petiod. winch, as ;time iately preceding
the comiugan of harvest, was also the most important.
Lord ELLENBOROMII did not think that the
omission ot Ireland and• Scotland wi uld necessarily
raise the average, hut he was not I,repard t come so
any conclusion (Ton the subject, :of he had seen
the retuins of tree average of ti.e pikes taker in the
ditfuelit towns ALA ctics. The rierao of thc %bole of

the towns alluded, did qot tuceed. maims eight
or nine hundred thousand 'quarter; i year. He <tonal-
;lend theßillsboutio be brought pp as a sort of ex-
pesknenr: Still, he' thought advantages
,would resolt
from it, ak it would enable,their Lordships to legislate
with more clearness on the subject nest Session. Ht
sup' orted the amendment.
The Earl of HARROWI3Y commented on the pre-
sent mode of taking the averages. and urged the neces-
sity for some change, which might amend and improve
it. He considered it would be quite imposible to take,
the averages according to the extensive method proposed
by toe amendment.
The Earl of MALNIESBURY wished to know wbe-
ther it were intended that the proposed system of ave-
rages should apply ro the Bill now in progress through
the other House of ParNament ?
Viscount GODERICH replied in the affirmative.
The Duke of WELLINGTON considered it would
be impossible to apply the system of averages to the
new law, ucless that new law were framed so as to
make them applica'sle. He thought, that with reference
to any proposed law, the experiment of averages should
be upon as broad a basis as possible. As such a mode
would be the most efficacious in preventing frauds, con-
sequently the greater number of places in which those
averages were taken, the greater would be the advan-
tage. He wished, therefore, that they might be extended
to as many of the towns in Great Britain and Ireland
as possible.
Viscount GODERPCH said, the object ot the amenck
ment, and the wish of the Noble Duke, was, to extend
the plan of taking the averages to a greater degree than
was now contemplated, through the various parts of
England. He (Lord Goderich) was not prepared to say
that this plan would be objected to by him, but his ob.
jist.tion was to introduce it into the present Bill, with
which he.did not see how it could be incorporated, or
how it could be brought to operate upon another Bill
which was not yet a law at all.
Lord ELLENROROUGH explained.
The Earl of ROSSLYN thought, if the amendment were ad-
ndtted. the House might have the advantage of the ezporiment for
nine months or a year.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that any experiment that
might he made would be liable to a year's trial, and could be altered
U it were proper so to do.
The Earl of HARROW BY said, that very considerable expense
enfold be incurred by the plan suggested, as each Inspector must
be weillraid.
Lord BE L MORE was of opinion that the experiment would net
be applicable to Ireland. It would be unjust to regulate the mar-
kets of that country according to the duties that were calculated by
the prices In this.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said, that the material point
would be to obtain the averages correctly. The present he con.
sidered a proper time to make the experiment.
Lord TEY N HAM suggested the insertion of certain names of
places instead of those now hurried, by which means no new ex-
pense would be incurred.
Lord FARNHAM said, his views coincided with those of the
Noble Duke (Wellington). A great point, however, had been
gained by the admission of the Noble Viscount (Galeria)) that
it would be advantageous to extend the averages.
Viscount GODERICH said, what he had observed was net to
be taken ai a pledge ; he certainly did at present feel no objection
to a wider principle of gee, but he thought that information,
with reference to the matter, might be had by inquiry. Until such
inquiry were made, he thought it would be wrong to make an
arbitrary selection of the towns.
The Rail of MALMESBURY suggested the propriety of re-
porting progress, in order that, by Monday, the Noble Duke might
prepare a list of the names of the towns.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, the only difference between
the two tides was, that one considered the best means of obtaining
information would be by official officers, and the other by inquiry.
Now, if that information could have been obtained by means of in.
quiry, the Government were to blame for not having procured
It owner.—The House thee divided.
During the absence of the Reporters two divisions took place,
which led to a very singular result. An Amendment, which pro-
poses the mission of certain words, and the assertion of ethers in
their place, involves two questions—the one, as to the omission.
the other as to the insertion; and it is the practice of the Houses.of
Parliament to put the question of oMilliCla in the affirmative thus—
" That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question—"
that form comprising, in fact, two decisions In one division. Upon
the present occasion, the question put to the House, therefore, was,
"That the words England and Wales, proposed to be left Out,
stand part of the question," and the numbers were—
,
Contents 44
•
Not-contents . • 44

By the practice of the House the Chairman always votes on the
side of the net-contents, as the side which gives an opportunity for
takiug the sense of the House a second time. The emission of the
words" England and Wales" having thus been determined. before
the nest routine question,. that the words Great Britain and Ire-
land be inserted,' was put, some of the Noble Peers left the Huse,
and a division was called ter. The numbers then
.were—
Contents
$7
Not-contents • 43
So that u the Bill now stands, It applies neither to " England and'
Walls," nor to " Great Britain and Ireland."
Upou our re-admission, their Lordships were discussing the
matter round the table, and it was agreed, as we understood. that'
steps shoed be taken to make the Bill applicable to some place or
places at a future stage.
The other clinics of the Bill were agreed to with some verbal
amendments, and the Report was ordered to be received tomorrow,
and the Bill to be read a third time on Monday.