Star.
London, England, 1811-05-17 00:00:00

den of the city of Dublin, to an meat that would of was, that, against his own judgment and experier..e
itself be sufficient to awaken the attention of Parlia- he had consented to the abolition of fines, and to
ment to this very important question. And here he! total change in consequence of the distillery system
could riot help saying, that even if the redaction of ; When it could be proved in the Committee that the
this tax had had no injurious effect upon the revenue,lcause of the late idleness, drunkenness, and immora.
still we should pause before we made the vices and . lity was exclusively to be ascribed to the lowering of
dissolute habits of the people a source of public re- the duty on spirits, and that its consequence was also
venue.—(Hear, hear.)—But to try it upon -flu-owie- to double the number of patients in the hospitals, and
ground, the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. treble the number of deaths, he hoped that no Mem.
Foster) said, that he reduced the duty in order to bee of the House would wish that this abominable
suppress illicit distillation. (Hear, from Mr. Foster.) system should be continued one day longer.
He put it to the candour of that Right Honourable Mr. FOSTER explained.
Gentleman to say, whether it had any such effect ? ' Mr. GRATTAN asked the Right Hon. Gentle.
Did not that Right Honourable Gentleman in intro- man (Mr. Foster) if he consented to a Committee )
ducing this measure to the House, frankly avow that Mr. FOSTER said he had no objection to a Select
he made it as a mere experiment to suppress illicit Committee.
distillation (here Mr. Foster signified his assent) ; The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
and had not that experiment totally failed ? and after thought it unfair to ascribe the increased immorality
it had failed, would the Right Honourable Gentle- to the reduction of the diary on spirits: if spirits were
man blindly go on in adhering to a plan which had not lower now than in lt6J7, it was much more na.
not only failed of its professed object, but had proved turd' to ascribe it to the great reduction of the price
equally injurious to the morals and revenue of the which took place on the prohibition to distil being re.
country ?-4 Hear, hear, hear.)-11; however, the moved. With respect to the hospitals, he had been
Right Honourable Gentleman would persist, he (Mr. informed that in consequence of several important ion.
Shaw) would not go along with him, believing, as provements which had been made in them. the aver.
he did, that by resorting to a system of equitable tax- sion of the people to them had been in a great mea-
ation, fairly apportioned between the two trades that sure removed, and the patients consequently increased.
deserved of that House every encouragement—he Lord CASTLEREAGH thought that no revenue
meant the Brewer and the Distiller, there might be cnnsideration ought to interfere with the morals of
raised upon both, without oppressing either, such a the people. It was certainly the prevailing opinion
revenue as Might fully answer the supplies of the in Ireland, that the low duties on spirits had occa.
country, without resorting to any further local taxa- sinned the late increase of drunkenness. Spirits ought
tion whatever. This however, he might say as to to be discouraged, and malt liquor encouraged, and
the principle he had been recommending, that it had the people of Ireland were beginning to habituate
received every sanction from the Right Honourable . themselves to the latter. There was a time, perhaps,
the Chancellor of the Exchequer for England, who { when spirits might be more suitable to the people of
had laid it down as a great rule in imposing taxes . Ireland than malt liquor, but now,. when they weie
of this kind, that the morals of the people constituted , better clothed, lodged, and fed, they did not require
the first consideration ; this he had said the day be-' spirits to warm them.
fore yesterday, and he trusted it had the due impres- The motion for referring the petition to a Com.
sion upon the Finance Minister for Ireland. With mittee was then agreed to ; and a Select Committee
respect to the question, whether the reduction has or was appointed, consisting f—
has nut been productive of • the mischiefs attributed Mr. Grattan Mr. Wilberforce
Chancellor of the Eschequer
to it, and whether it had or had not altogether failed, Lord Cut lereagh
Fost Ba
were questions which he should leave to lie Mr. decided Mr. Cauer
nin Mr. W. thurst
Smith
by the testimony of those facts which were already Mr. Huskisf Mr.
on Mr. Bidduiph
authenticated upon the table of the House. The Mr. Shaw Sir L Montgomery
first fact, as to the failure of the experiment was, that Sir J. Newport •Mr. Alderman Combo
no stills had taken out licences in the districts where Mr. W. Pole Mr. Cooper
Mr. Barry Mr. Pent
illicit distillation was known to abound, and that lit- Mr. Hutchinson Mr. Parnell
the or no spirits had been transmitted into those di:- Mr. wine Mr. Thompson, etc.
tricts from the licensed distilleries in the other parts MISR MU.
of the country. The other statement went to prove Mr. SHAW called the attention of the House to
the alarming increase of disease,, owing to the intent- the Petition from the Proprietors of Newspapers ia
Aerate use of ardent spirits in consequence of its Ireland, for the repeal of an Act of the lest Session,
cheapness. Here Mr. Shaw read the Monthly Re- imposing an additional Duty on Advertisements.—
ports of various Hospitals, in Dublin and other parts That Tax had been found, not only oppressive, but
of Ireland, where it appeared that the increase of the unproductive,
fords fforded, therefore, the strongest
number of sick admitted, and the number of deaths, of nil rrasons itabolition. The additional duty
in consequence of excessive intoxication, had gone in came to be levied for the first time on the 16th of July
such a progressive increase, that the number of sick „ last. The gross produce of the Tax on Advertise.
had doubled, and that of the deaths had trebled, within ! ments for the six months previous to that period,
a very limited period. Upon the whole, as the re- : amounted to £14,159155. and that for the six months
(faction had not, nor in his opinion could not, do 'following amounted to £14,930 17s. 10d. leaving an
iwhat it professed to du—but as it had already done , apparent increase of £77125. 10,1.; but this increase
muchlo impair the revenue of Ireland, to injure the . was more than accounted for by the institution of
health and vitiate the morals of the Irish people, the 1 three clew papers, two of which were published daily,
motion for sending it to a Committee should have his , the duty upon advertisements in which amounted to
cordial support. £l,ooolos. 4d. so that the duty had in reality beets
I
Mr. FOSTER agreed in the practice of the prin. diminished by £259 13s. Much of the amount of the
ciple laid down by bsth the Gentlemen who preceded I latter period, was for Government Proclamations,
him. He should be ashamed to hold his office one.' which were no addition to the revenue. The Tat had
hour for the purpose of raising a revenue at the ex- I been found oppressive in the extreme. It was professed
pence of the morals of the Irish People. ( Hear! )!to be only two-thirds of the tax on Advertisements in
The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Shaw) had said, ' England, but this proportion was only for advertise.
that the reduction was a mere experiment to put ! ments of less than 10 lines; and an Irish advertisement
down illicit distillation. Certainly that had been its of 300 lines was taxed in a ratio of 20 to 1 mere
principal object—and an object in the endeavour top than in England. The advertisement for the Pena.
effect which he had all those Gentlemen with him. I guese Subscription, for instance, paid in Ireland tee
Illicit distillation was the great evil, and the higher I pounds fourteen shillings, and would have paid in
the duty on the spirits, the greater the premium to I England only three shillings. The consequence was.
the illicit distiller. He had proposed a penalty on i that the price of advertising in Ireland greatly meek:-
the town lands where illicit stills were found, and ted the means of the advertising class. They were re-
this mode might have at least put them down, if it I duced to advertise less frequently, to the great detri.
had not been for that most unfortunate measure of ment of the Irish press. It was also to be kept is
prohibiting the distillation in Ireland. But the Hon. mind, that the Irish press laboured tinder many bald.
Gentleman had contended that the reduction had ships not felt in England : la per cent. for instance,
totally failed in suppressing illicit distillation. In was only discounted on Stamp Duties in Ireland,
answer to this, he should merely read the Returns of while in England the discount amounted to 17 per
the Revenue Officers for the quarter ending Decem- cent. There was not a man attached to the interests
der '25, 1810. The amount of Seizures were as fate of Ireland, who must not wish it the blessings of an
lows : 572 stills, 378 kegs, 344 worms, 5,562 uten, enlightened press. A press to be enlightened must
sils, '2,800 gallons of spirits, and 150,000 gallons of first be independent. He greatly feared that this tax,
pot-ale. He denied also that the spirits were at pee- ,if persisted in, would ultimately endanger the very
sent so much cheaper, as had been asserted-.-in 1804, ! existence of the Irish periodical press ; and as he was
the spirits were 7s. 7d. a gallon ; in 1805, 6, and 7, j satisfied that such never could have been the object
about 7s. Bd. ; in 1810, 85. 7d. ; and in 1811, Bs. 6d, i or the wish of the Right lion. Gentleman, he ttuse
'a gallon. After some' further remarks, he said he ed that he would join with him in rescuing it num
should not, however, object to the Committee. . those evils to which his own ill-judged measures had
Mr. HENRY MONTGOMERY spoke in favour exposed it. He concluded with moving that the Pe.
of a Committee up-stairs. , talon should be referred to the consideration of a Corn.
• • Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that nothing like •amittee pf the whole House.
1
false shame should ever keep him from .retracting an Mr. FOSTER said, the framers of the tax meant
opinion when he was convinced it was unfounded. that it should apply to every ten lines as a new ad.
The reason which had induced him to vote espie "iiirfirl l etriert. efhim state, however, what would
the fines on the town lands was, that they..ha4 .. 'be the effect of the tax if he were to follow the rule as
creased to such an extent as to produce anoassof wine to the•Eaiglish duties. If Gentlemen wished this to
victim that they could not be levied... He Allied ill I* dome let them propose it. In that case, instead of
particular to the county of Cavan. ' But the:.
O tre• I £14,000 the duty would amount to /116,000.
lel
question was, whether or not the low price of ki Mr. PA KNELL referred to the Act of Union, anti.
had increased the drunkenness and immorality of th de 7e by which it was stipulated, that no article should
people of Ireland ? and that this was the case, hcf ;be subjected to a greater duty than it was liable min
would venture to say, would be unanimously declar: Ireland. In this respect, the duty imposed by Mt
ed by those Gentlemen who had resided during the . Right Koh. Friend opposite was in contradiction to
last year in Ireland. The drunkenness had increased the Act al Union. The same reasoning was applica.
to.such a degree, that no workman Weuld *fn. mote Isle to the tax-on hand-biller, which had no existence
than two days ite the week.. A man could get corn- , in England. ' *
pletely drunk for 4d. This was destructive of all Mr. FOSTER stated, that the tax on hand-bill,
good order, and the consequence would be, that a had been proposed by those very petitioners them•
military force would be necessary to controtil the ex. selves. They complained that the handbills had the
cesses. The Legislature could not be tied up.thy the .erect of taking away from them their advertisements;
licences to distillers. The people were their fast ;And having complied with their request, they now
care, and the Revenue the second. ... 7. complained of him for having done so. They bad
Mr. WM. TAYLOR. said it was impossible to files proposed a penny on each handbill, to which he wou:d
1 the duty on spirits in Ireland. . • not consent, and a halfpenny was egri ed to
Mr. HLTTCHINSON said that all the great Sir JOHN NEWPORT denied that the Right
Ibrewers in Ireland had signed the petition, and there- Hen. Gentleman had any right to make his agree.
tore it was not to be considered as the petition of a ment to go into the Committee, conditional on the
few individuals, but as the representatives of the whole fact of the petitioners submitting to the same du•
body. The right Hen. Gentleman (Mr. Foster) had ties as those imposed in England. The fact was,
said the prices of spirits* were not greater now than in that Ireland could not support the same duties as
1807 ; but he would ask him if the brewer retained in England ; their means could pot admit cf it.—
the came situation that he then held ? While the The whole effect would be, not to increase the 1t•
duty on spirits had been lowered from 4s. to 2s. 6d. venue, hut to put down the press of Ireland.
was soy oompensation nude to the brewer ? .What Mr. P.'MOORE was of opinion that the duty as
he blamed that Right. Hog. Gentleman most for now laid on Advertisements in Ireland, was calcul
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