Star.
London, England, 1810-05-04 00:00:00

which was the subject of the present discussion, be-
cause it was not a petition but a protest; because it'
was not an application but a menace. Against the
reception of such a document he for one would make
a stand. It a'..s evident that those who termed them=
elves petitioners were trying how much insult the
House would bear. Had they been in earnest in theit
ktstensible object, they would have couched their peti•
tien in less offensive terms. Were the dignity and pri-
vileges of the House of Commons the possession
merely of the indivicblal Memberi' they might be
abandoned with \INS difficulty ; but they belonged to
the people of England, and ought to be maintained.
Little did those who promoted such proceedings as
that in which the Middlesex Petition originated, per-
ceive the consequences to which they might lead.
These- consequences such individuals were powerful to
bring on, but they would find themselves powerless to
stop. They would themselves be ultimatelyswept away
like chaff before the wind. All wise and experieneed
men knew that such attempts could have but one ter-
mination ' • they knew, that if the Privileges of the
House of Commons were abandoned, the Monarchy
which these people endeavoured to cajole equally
with the • Tie, and which it was the duty of the

that he did riot regret having brought the language
of that Petition distinctly under 'the consideration of
the House, and having prevented a Petition, couched
in terms which to him appeared of the most offensive
nature, to be laid on their table sub silentio. As it.was
his intention.to vote for the reception of the Middle-
sex Petition, he would explain his motives for doing •
so. Then, as before, he was actuated by his anxiety
to maintain the dignity of the House of Commons.
Of dignity, consistency was no mean part ; atiel as
the House had the other day accepted the Petition,
from Westminster, he could not see how they could
consistently reject the Petit?on from Middlesex. ' In
all the forcible arguments which he had lieara.against
suffering the Middlesex Petition to be laid on the
table (arguments which, did lie not consider the ques-
tion as decided by the determination of the House
with respect to the Westminster Petition, wind,/ be
conclusive in his mind), he had not heard nue which
would not have applied more forcibly against the re-
ception of the Westminster Petition. Cases of the
`sort before the House ought to be decided on a broad
principle. The House ought not to receive one Pe-
tition, because the offensive language which it con-
tained might be explained awar.bv aforced construe-
,

pool _ : . .
House of Commons to limit and protect, must either ; tion, and to reject another petition because no such
be converted into an absolute despotism or destroyed. quibble could be rendered applicable to it. The prac-
This truth was no new secret taught by the French • Cce of the House ought to be uniform. It was true
revolution. All history shewed that such a termina- that that practice might change from century to cen-
tiou was in the nature of things. But the French re- wry, it might even change from one twenty years to',
volution furnished so recent and meinorable an 'exam. another ; but decency required that it should not-
ple -of it that no one cJuid blind himself to the change in a week, or because the Chancellor ot the
consequences. While he opposed the reception of Exchequer felt a little more political courage on one
the Petition he was at the same time anxious to do day than he did on another. He should, therefore,
away any misrepresentation of motive to which the vote for the reception of the petition, expressing at
House might be liable, by adopting a resolution that the same time his utter detestation and abhorrence of
they wire not unwilling to attend to the prayer of the principles which it maintained, and his perfect
any petition, but that they could not consent to re- . preparation, should any future petition of a similar
cord on their Journals a protest against their own' nature he presented, which bore a marked and Intel.
proceedings. He wished that sonic more able indivi. ligible difference, to vote for its rejection.
dual than himself had taken no this subject; but he I Mr. R S. DUNDAS concurred most fully in all,
had presumed to address the llonse upon it, because ; the doctrines laid down by the Honourable Gentle,"
he thought, that in order to strengthen their hands, :man who opened the debate, so far as they were ape 1
they had a right to demand the opinion of all their !plicable to the question. As to the last Honourable'
Members. Before he sat down, he would say a few i Member who had spoken, he was not prepared to f01..1
words on that which appeared to hire to be the pri- • low him into his ideas of consistency on this occasion.
mary cause of the insult which the House had re- 1 That Honourable Member had stated that he would
ceived. The Honourable Gentlemen on the Minis- . not have voted for the reception of the Westminster
terial benches had been frequently warned of the end ; Petition, nor of this Petition, if the former had not
to which the path which they had thought proper to : been received, though he argued that, in eransisttncy,
pursue must necessarily lead. They had wholly dis- ; having receiVed the former, the House was bound not
regarded the public feeling. They had embraced `i to reject this. Did the Honourable Gentleman then
every opportunity, even to the present day, of doing i mean to say, that becaus- the House was wrong then,
that which must naturally excite the public indigna- it should, in consistency, act wrong now ? Cons.'
Lion. What could be the reason that a late Member I sistency in error the House would not, he supposed,:
of that House, who had, deservedly or undeservedly, :he inclined to adopt. As to the former Petition,
experienced the censure of the Public. had just been I lie admitted that upon reconsidering it he was of opi-
loaded with rewards and honours ? Was the present :nion that it bore the construction which hod induced
a time for such a proceeding ? The Honourable Gen- 1 the House to receive it. But wa<: the document
tlemen opposite themselves furnished the arguments under consideration of the same de.,cription ? Could
with which the demagogues deluded the people.— I any Gentleman take upon him to say, that this Pe-
They had themselves decried all public virtue. When 1 tition was any thing but a premeditated insult to that
those who were opposed to them in politics, con-; House ? The tone and terms of the present Petition
demised their measures, they ascribed their hostility , were so much stronger and more oansive than the
to the unworthy motive of wishing to regain their i former, that he was of opinion the House should now
places, although it could scarcely be believed that ; make its stand. This they were the more bound to
any one would be so senseless as to do so at the pre- i.do, because having received the fotmer Petition, they
sent moment. The resolution which he intended to ; 'hewed their disposition to receive such as, consistently
submit to the House was, i with their dignity, they could, though resolved not to
" That this 'House is at an times wining to receive the Peti- ! receive any other, which increased in the strength and
tions of the !Toile; but that it cannot, under the name of a ' •
insolence of their language. The lion. Gentleman
Petition, receive that which is in
-fact a Protest against its porecettlings." opposite pair.. Barham) had a.,serted, that the terms
Mr. GRENFELL, as he had seconded the motion lof thke Petitions had been ndopted from language
of his Hon. Friend for the adjournment of the discus.; used by Hon. Gentlemen on his side of the House—
sion to this day, trusted that he should be indulged in ' (die Tr-ea:toy aide)—and contended that the dissatis.
briefly stating the grounds of the vote he meant to faction of the public arose from sham inquiries in Par.
give. He rejoiced in the short delay that had taken Lament. He did not, however, understand that Hon.
place, because, in whatever way the House should de- I Gentleman to say that Parliament had lost the confi-
cide, its. judgment would, be was persuaded, have ' deuce of the public. Whatever might be that Hn o.
more weight and impression in the country. As to i Member's opinion, he, for his part, was contdent that
the character of the document under consideration, he ; Parliament had not lost the confidenie of the nation.
for one had no doubt; and no Gentleman who had i The measures taken out of doors, which had been al-
,spoken on the subject seemed to him to have justified 1 hided to, proceeded from persons whose conduct was
the tone and language in which it was. drawn up. A; totally at variance with the principles that influenced
worthy Alderman, a friend of his (Alderman Combe) i that House. But as to the observation of that Hon.
had stated last night, as the ground on which he 1 Gentleman, that, because a late Member of that House
should vote for receiving the Petition, that he did not I (Mr. Yorke) had incurred the dispkast ire of the public,
know what might be the consequences of its rejection. I whether his conduct was deserving, or not deserving
For his own part he could say, that though he might I of censure, he should not have been appointed to the
not know what would be the consequences of its re- i office he now held,, he should only ssy, that if those
jection, he was still disposed to think less of these con- i who had advised that appointment had been hi.
sequences than of the dignity of that House. Yet if' floenced by a feeling such as that alluded to by the
he was not aware of the consequences .of its rejec- i Hon. Gentleman, they would indeed have merited
tion, he had a strong impression of what might be the I contempt. It was not by advising such appointments,
consequences of the reception of such a. document by ' but by giving way to such unworthy sert:ments, in
that House. If they could once be brought to enter.' coming to a decision, that the Government would in-
tain such a production, their table would in a short : cur contempt. He was sure, therefore, that tne Hon.
time he loaded with petitions in still more offensive; Gentleman would be ready to retract his assertion.—
There was little more in the observation of the other
terms, which would not fail to be promoted by those i
who were ever ready to degrade and vilify the House I Hon. Member, who attributed the. discontents of the
of Commons. It was by no means his opinion that i nation to the Board of Taxes. This was a most e:-
there existed any such disposition generally through.: i traordinary statement. These Boards were merely
out the country ; but he was ready to admit that a . the instruments for carrying into c%ecution the acts of
considerable degree of discontents and dissatisfaction , that House. The duties they had to perform were
did prevail amongst the mass of the public. Any .
! prescribed by Parliament ; and if any blame attached
constitutional measures for the removal of such dis.; for the manner in which they were directed to esscute
content, he should ever be prepared to support ; bat ! them, the Hon. Member himself most li,tve his full
prosiedings of any different tendency should meet 'no share of it. Their duty was irksome, but it wos in:.
countenance from him. One of the principal causes posed upon them. He could not agree with the opi-
for the public dissatisfaction arose from the oppressive, : nion of the Hon. Gentleman, that the rejection of
tyrannical, and vexatious system for collection of the; the Petition should be precedgd .by any resolution or
taxes. If ever a revolution should take place in this i declaration, sheaving the grounds upon which it had
country, it would be brought about by the vexations been rejected. The Hon. Gentleman had himself
collection, and not by the extreme burthen, heavy as 1 shewn no similar case, nor did lie believe that any si-
ne allowed it
.to be, of the taxes. He was not afraid ; miler case could be shewn. The best mode of rnani-
of the meetings in Palace-yard, or at Hackney, so festing the grounds upon which the House acred,
much as of what was passing elsewhere; and of this I would be to let it appear, that after having received
be was convinced, ti.at no revolutions were so much 1 the former Petition, this had been, on reading it, hn-
to be dreaded as the Commissioners of Taxes. Having mediately rejected.
stated so much upon the cause of the public discon- Mr. GRENFELL, Mr. &miner. and Mr. DEVIDAS,
tent, he should not take up any more of the time of severally explained.
the House, but conclude with stating his intention of Mr. PONSONBY regarded the observation; of Isis
supporting the resolution read by his Hon. Friend. Hon. Friend respecting the appointment of Mr.
The Hon. Mr. WARD, before he offered to the Yorke to the office of First Lord of the Admirahy, as
House any observations on the Petition then before strictly constitutional ; because in this country the re-
them, requested that the Petition from the Electors Presentatives of the people had no other means of
ot Westminster might be read. ascertaining the sentiments of their constituents but
The Westminster Petition, was accordingly read Iby means of -a new election. If upon such an event
by the Clerk. . ' they should be re-elected, that would be a satisfac-
Mr. WARD then proceeded to declare, that he tory proof that they approved of their .public con-
duct ; nod, according to.this constitutional criterion,
would not have said a single word on- the presqlit
subject, had he not stood in the situation -of having the Electors of Cambridgeshire had given their late
opposed the reception of the Petition that had just Member decisive evidence of their sense of his parlia-
been read. Whether the House had decided well or mentary conduct. As to the petition itself, he was
sorry to differ respecting it from his Hon. Friend ;
ill on the subject of the Westminster Petition,
,he
would not pretend to say ; bvt this he would say, but certainly he should not vete for its rejection. He