Star.
London, England, 1816-03-12 00:00:00

of 27,000 had arisen in the ionipara. tiveeapense et'
the household troops, and those of the line, be had
drawn his calculation from the charge of two regi-
ments of dragoons (General Tarleton's and another)
which were composed of 1863 men, the total charge
of whom was £77,618. - Now those corps (the house-
hold-ones) although their number was 120 less,'cost
‘1119,554. (Hear.)
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained the manner
in which be had made his calculation, and said that
the inaccuracy was but in the difference between
27,000 and £37,000. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. FREEMANTLE referred to one specific fact.
The expense of a division of the Guards, in number
2221, cost £75,863, and the Duke of Kent's eosin,
in number 2013, cost only £59,496.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that though he had on
a former occasion stated his opinion upon the esti-
mates generally, yet he was then-anxious to give it
on them in detail, as a defiante had been given to
Gentlemen oa his side to go into such examination.
He accepted the gauntlet which had been thrown.
down, and he believed that the more minutely the
House examined the several items, the more objec-
tionable they should, find them.—(Hear, hear )-:.He
objected, in the first instance, to the great number of
guards, which were intended to be kept up, and even
to the new-fangled French name of household troops,
which had been given them. Had the Noble Lord
made out a case to the House, to prove the necessity
of raising the number of those guards to mote thanl
double what it was in 1791 ? such a case had been
proved to the House, he (Mr. Broneham) should not
have opposed the motion. But the fact was, that
with all the anxiety evinced by the Noble Lord (Cas-
tlereagh) and his friends to go into the examination
of the estimates, item by item, they bad failed in
producing any one proof of the necessity of the in-
crease which had been made. The House had ad-
vanced to the present stage of the debate, and no
one allegation had been made to show this necessity.
It had indeed been said that '2400 of them were to
he kept up in Fraece, but allowing this, there were
till 7,600 to be accounted tor. What proof had the
Noble Lord given that the increase of even 3,600
men in the establishment since Mr. Pi:t's time wan
necessary ? He (Mr. Brougham) wished to be in-
formed, what had happened since that period to ren-
der The number of guards nearly double what it was
then ? Eitgl mud was at present more peaceable than
it was in 1792. At the Litter period, though the
people were not in rebellion, yet the country was
every day assailed with reports of plots and d;tnge.
roux Addresses and votes of the House
agreed in staliag, that some public danger did exist,
and yet with all these threatening appearances, Mr.
Pitt did not think it necessary to propose a greater
force in t•.e guards than 4000 men —Wear, hear,
hear. is —What, he would ask, did the Noble Lord see
in the s:.:te of the metropoli. at the present day, to
make a force nearly double that number (not count-
ing the number by the truants to be left in France),
necessity? The people of London were never at
any lo: met period more obedient to the laws, or ,Were
peaceable, than at the present moment. His Ho.
nnutabie and Learned Friend the Attorney-General,
whom he then saw iu his place, could. attest this, for
be (Mr. Brougham) believed that that Honourable
and Learned Gen:kman, had pot, for the last two
ye a-s, resorted to an ex ojAQ information. There sva
now no Jacobinism, even the very word had scarcely
been mentioned in the House for the last five or six
years. What= then was this danger to come front,
which should render the proposed force necessary ?
But he much feared that it was not nierely to keep
the peace of the metropolis that this force of guards
was kept up. Their was more of empty sheo and
p trade in it than rell necessity. It was a mickery
to talk ut internal d tng x in the present state of the
country. Th' N. 1),. Lord (Castlereagh) driven out
of the argument of necessity, had recourse to ano-
ther, and raid that those troops bad distinguished
themselves in the 'Ate campaigns. lie (Mr. B.)
e.,0,11 I ask,- which of our troop.; had. not done so ?
The same arganfvni might, it it were of any force,
be ur,;(..1 agaiw•t the disbanding of a single soldier,
for the/ had all distinguishea themselves most glo-
riously—(!.l,4r, hear,).- and tIn!u,(11 some of them
had hot the same opportuni6es of making themselves
conFpi(mous as (idlers, who from their situations in
particular actions had borne the great pressure of the
enemy, yet it did not follow that they were less
brave, or had I,ls claim to be kept up. It would be
unjust and dangerous to say to any of those troops,
•( You must be disbanded, because you have-not dis-
tingutshed yourself as much as others." Such lan-
gu:ige he held to be dangerous and unconstitutional.
It wouli, in the mind of the soldier, associate the
idea of his being disbanded with that of his being
disgraces'..—(Hear, hear,)—He could never assent to
such 41: :etine as that which the argument of the
Net io Lrad seemed to imply. He could not consent
.to keep avy munt,er of troops on foot, for no other.
reason this:: gnat tiey had distinguished themselves
When their scrvices were necessary. He could not
agree with the is.oble Lord in letting it be thought
for an instant that soldiers disgraced themselves by
becomi::g cilia: ns.—(Hear, hear.)—He would speak
the language el the Constitution, and would say to
the soldier, " You have faithfully performed that
duty for which you were called forth ; return now,
and be attain a citizen,"—(Hear, hear.)—This was
the language GI the Constitution, and if the time
was passed when such language would be held in
that House, he soil hoped, that out of it, no one
would dare to say that a soldier was degraded by be-
coming a citizen.—(Hear, hear.)— It bad been said
by some Gentlemen on the other side—" Is this a
Ifaiureturn for the services of these troops, that when
you no longer want their exertions, you shall turn
them adrift and suffer them to become scavengers ?"
He (Mr. Brougham) wished no such thins. He did
not wish to see them unrewarded for their services,,
but he could not for a moment think that they would
be degraded .by returning to that state of society
from which they should not have been called in the
first instance, but by necessity.—(Hear, hear.)—The,
Honourable and Learned Gentleman then contended,
that in an economical point of view, troops ,'f the
line should be substituted for a great portion of these
guarder, for that comparing the expense of 2000 guards
with that of 2000 of the line, the balance Would be
upwards of ittlo,ooo against the former, and tho Ugh
the saving would be but small, yet in the present state
of the country, no possible reduction of expense should
be thought too small to be attended to. (Hear, hear).