Star.
London, England, 1821-02-27 00:00:00

COURT or ADMIR4LTY, SCriTT.ANTI.

The LORD ADVOCATE moved the further toe.
sideration of the Report ml the Court of Admiralty
Compensations Bill.
On the question teing put that the Resolution:ft
Now read a second time,

Mr. CREEVEY rose to move, as an amendment.
that the Resolutions be read a second time that day
six months ; and he was quite sure that if the Rolm
would do him the favour to attend to him for aft*
minutes, they would be disposed to support his cos.
tion. The Resolution which ha opposed represented
that it was expedient to grant compensation to the
Clerks and other Officers of the Court of Admit:At!
in Scotland, for any loss they might sustain by ay
regulation that might be made relative to that Coat
Who ever heard of such a thing as making mom.
sation beforehand to Clerks, in case they siion;Zi„e
their situat'ons?—(Hear, hear).—ln Ireland, hest,'
Court had been abolished, and compensation, !:ad
been given to the Clerks in lieu of them; but here
was an abstract, contingent, prospective compeuss.
Lion, provided before the fees were abolished! It
was alleged that this measure was adopted in com-
pliance with the recommendation of the Comma.
sioners appointed to inquire into the subject; be;
unless he was mistaken, the only Report on these!.
ject was that of the Parliamentary Commission io
1814.—[The Loan Antvoc TE assented].—The situ.
Lions of the Chief Clerk and of the Judge-Menial
were remarked on by the Commissioners: the ken
received £l,lOO a-year, and did nothing—AA
hear),—while the former received 4400. He vs
glad to perceive that the Right Hon. Lord adoimi
doe correctness of his statements. Now, the aka
of the Commissioners to the Crown was, that in hp
tire the duty should be performed by one Cleat,
with a salary of £6OO, instead of two, with 1:1,900
between them. What the present Resolution had to
do with that recommendation he could not see, os•
less it was supposed that Scotland had taken the
alarm at the abolition of one sinecure office-0*
hear ).=The individual of whom he spoke could ft
be a very young Min at present. In 1813, he be-
lieved the Secretary of St.ate transmitted the recom-
mendation of the Committee, which then sat apse
this subject, to the Judge-Admiral of Scotland, vie
instructions that if he had any observations to site
upon the Report, they should be forwarded as son
as possible. He (Mr.Creevey) bad never heard she
followed; and really, under ail the circumstances,
he could not do other than move to postreetke
consideration of the present Resolutions to du*
six months—a motion so reasonable, upon the risk
he bad stated, that be could not suppose their wog
be any sort of Objection to it—( A laugh, and 104
Mr. BENNETT seconded the modal..
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND roil
assure the Hon. Gentleman, that the only objectif
the present motion was to give effect to the Psi
:statuary recommendation of the Committee whit
had been appointed by that House upon thisfel
case. The Hon. Gentleman was understood to a)
the last time that this matter was before the 110.*
that he (Mr. Creevey) knew nothing about it. g
about the office; and he (the Lord Advocate) will
that the Hon. Gentleman had made some betterse
of the intervening time, before he came dowel'
give his present opposition. It might be proms
explain the means by which a person who bulk
rained a judgment in this Court could enforced
This was to be done by procuring from the'Deig
the Court an authentic copy of the whole of theist
ceedings that might have been had. The Hai
might easily imagine what an enormous volumede.
extract," as it was called, would compose-4i
lease) indeed the expense of such an eat
frequently about £2OO. The Clerk of the
Admiralty was appointed by the Crown,
tight to grant all these extracts, by which -_
Nide between £6OO and £7OO a-year; thew
sow to be taken from him, leaving him, '

to the suggestion of the Hon. Gentleman,
amounting to one-sixth or one-eighth of
with which, however, he was required to L.
Hb (the Lord Advocate) could not conceive
what principle it was to be proposed, that '
man had bought a patent office for life, they
take that office nom him, without giving him
pensation for it. By the mode which the :
contended for, they must either abolish thew
ever, which left no compensation to the
or for his life, which still left to him no cotoPell.
tion. If it was just and proper that the fees thel"
selves should be abolished, it iras against -
ciple of justice that they should be taken .2%
the present Cleat without fair compensation
kind—( Hear, hear).
Mr. J. P. GRANT thought he could es.pl?:
causes upon which the misapprehension of
io
Friend (Mr. Creevey) proceeded. He thosght*,..
sertion of one or two necessary words is the 6ist'w,
solution would satisfy him. His Hon. Fried snl!
be aware that Resolutions of this kind could pot
nothing till the Bill had passed; and no doubt
anxiety was, that nothing should sake Oleg aw

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din Resolution bet what was by tLe pertriis:ibn of
rarlissment. As the Resolution now stood, the words
:nth compensations as may be necessary to
bn aside in consequence of, and for, any regulations
est may be .made thereafter in that Court." Now
be (Mr. J. P. Grant) wished the whole to be altered
14 101 any regulations that may be hereafter
no& by Act of Parliament." He should take the
y of Moving that an alteration to this effect be
idopiedr4Hear, hear). .
Mr. CREEVEY now understood what was said to
k tMs—that the House would understand more when
they came to have the Bill before them. As this was
saggesticrn, therefore, that more information was
le, he afforded, he would not oppose the second read-
„f these Resolutions, but reserve himself to arso-1
*et opportunity. At.the same time he did think it '
by no means necessary for this clerk to have any
l
hanwensation whatever.
Mr. HUME considered this to be a very import-
19t object. No less a sum than £160,000 per annum
irk paid in salaries to the Judge-Admiral, his clerks,l
ogees% and assistants ; and tins, for so poor a coup-1
07 as Scotland, was a very enormous charge.
Lord A. HAMILTON concurred very much with
his two Hon. Friends, that; upon any general princi-
ple, the clerk was not entitled to this compensation;
and though he should abstain from further obser-
vation till the Bill was brought in, yet, upon princi-
ple, he was satisfied that the object of these Resolu-
ticss was improper.
Mr. GRANT now begged to move, as an amend-
ment, the insertion he had proposed, namely, of these
words—after the word " regulations"—" proposed
by any Act or Acts of Parliament of the present
&ion.". The Resolutions, with the above Amend-
ments, were read a second time, and agreed to.
Mr.CREEVEY clearly understood that, at a future
stage of this business, the Noble and Learned Lord
was to submit a bill of fare for the intended provi-
sioes—(tattghter).

CORN AVERAGES.
Mr. F. ROBINSON rose to bring before the House
the motion of which be had given notice, relative to
the mode of striking the Averages of Corn, and for
the purpose of explaining more fully upon the sub-
ject. he should move that the Speaker leave the chair.
An Honourable MEMBER, from under the gallery.
before the chair was vacated, wished to ask the Presi-
dent of the Board of Trade, whether it was intended
by his Majesty's Ministers to grant a Committee upon
lie agricultural distresses of the country generally?
Mr. ROBINSON said it was impossible that he
should know what the decision of the House might
be upon that subject; but as his (Mr. Robinson's) pre.
sat proposition was only calculated to attempt a
pester degree of perfection in the single matter
which was its object, and to remove, as much as pos-
ible the existing defects of the same system, it was
clear that it was one which could not preclude the
House from entering on the consideration of the ge-
nial state of the Agricultural Interest at any future
ime—(Hear, hear).
The SPEAKER having left the chair, and the
House being in Committee,
Mr. ROBINSON said, that it was his intention to
confine himself at present to the immediate subject
of which be had given notice, namely, the state of
the law upon Corn Averages. He had just stated,
sad would repeat it, that there was nothing in the
proposition he meant to submit to the House imm-
inent with the fut,ure discussion of the general ques-
tion of Agricultural distress, when the proper oppor-
laity would arrive for it." It was necessary &Alto
me that the law relating to Averages was coni:
rued in four several Acts—the 31st, the 33d, the
ads, and 45th of the late King. The two last, he
iglu to state, repealed not positively, but indi-
Indy, the two former. He should therefore pro-
pse, in the first instance, that all these Acts be re-
sealed entirely, and that the laws on this subject,
a their amended form, be reduced to one Act ;
nit was obvious that this simplification must be of
considerable advantage. The alterations which he
%tended to propose in the existing laws were, for the
Ng part, founded on the recommendation of the
Meet Committee. The principal alteration which
be would now propose was in the mode of taking
the Averages. According to the present state of the
be, the aggregate Average of the twelve Maritime
Districts determined the opening and shutting of the
pons at particular periods of the year. All the Ma-
etime Counties in England and Wales were divided
Ito twelve districts; and in these districts towns were
'pointed from which returns of the sale and prices
(corn were ordered to be made. The total quan-
tity of corn sold is each town wits cast up, and the
total of money for which the same was sold ; and then
dividing the money by the quarters, the result gave
the average price of that town. These average prices
of each town being thus found, were added together,
and, being again divided by the number of towns,
lave the average of such district. The averages of
ie districts, thus found, were added together, and,
king divided by the number of districts, gave the
scgregate average of the whole twelve maritime dis-
acts. The Committee would see, in the first place,
gat if, instead of this complicated mode of taking
be averages, the same principle which was now ap-
/lied to the towns primarily, and to the districts af-
terwards, were applied to the districts and towns al-
egether, the benefit would be very considerable;
it it was obvious, that whilst so important a share
to present was allowed was given to each indivi-
nal town in making the averages of the districts, it
Bald be in the power of any individual, by a very
!ale sacrifice of money, to obtain a return of a Leti-
tia; and nominal price ; the effect of which would
le much more extensively felt during the operation
eirbe present system of taking the averages than in
tat which he would now propose. He would then
/repose to abolish the system of districts altogether,
lad to take the averages from a computation of the
"leregate amount of the corn sold an each of the
wens from which returns were already made, and
'ggregate prices retutned from the same. This
"stem would at least reniove some of the Facilities
fat existed at present to fi and, and would prevent
le repetition of such tricks as the Select Committee
ru
od le have taken place irf the last year. He would
t Meese an alteration, which was obviotisly one
necessity, but which would not affect the proposed
bode of taking the averages. It was known that the
Est of die
twelve maritime districts comprised the
'Duties of Kent, Essex, and Sussex. This district
114`41e no return whatever, but the price of cora was

determined exclusively by thit of the Corn Exchange
in London. He would propose, therefore, to include
these three counties, and certain towns in them, in
the number of counties and towns by whose return
the averages were struck. He would next propose
an amendment in the law which gives the King in
Council the power of changing the towns from whence
returns were required to be made, upon the represen-
tation of Magistrates in Session. He would propose
to give the King in Council the larger power of leav-
ing out a town altogether, without the necessity of
substituting another, or to add another, according to -
discretion. He would next propose the omission of
any prevision requiring returns to be made from the
inland districts and Scotland. The returns from
those places, hitherto, had nothing to do with the
making of the averages, so that the absence of them
would have no effect upon the system new proposed.
The averages of the maritime districts might always
be taken as the standard for determining the averages
of the inland districts and Scotland; so that the ex-
pense of returns from the latter places, when of so,
little value, might as well be saved. As to the In-
spectors, it had been represented by the Committee
that the Inspectors had not an adequate salary for
their trouble. According to the present law, the
amount which they received yearly was about £l3,
which was charged upon the Custom Duties gene-
rally. It was true, the Justices in Session, had a
power of increasing this allowance out of the County
Rates, but it did not appear to have been done io any
instance. But it was not fair that the County should
have the charge of a process in which the County
was not alone concerned; and therefore he would
propose the defraying of the salaries of the Inspec-
tors out of the Public Revenue ; he would also add
a provision, empowering Justices of Quarter Ses-
sions to increase the allowance of Inspectors to
csurn which should not exceed thirty pounds a-year.
There were one or two other points which he pro-
posed to submit to the Committee. They were aware
that every dealer was hotrod to make a declaration,
upon a penalty, one month before that he meant to
deal. He would not alter, or take away the penalty,
but he would propose that the Inspector should not
be bound to return, or the Receiver bound to admit
any return, from a dealer who bad not made a dee
claration that he meant to deal one month before the
time of his dealing. For, there were instances of
dealers going about buying up corn for no other pur-
pose than to raise the price; and hiving made returns ,
according. to the enhanCed price, and the Inspector
and Receiver not having the power to refuse these
returns, a false and pernicious report was made upon
the averages. In furtherance of the recommenda-
tion of the Select Committee that the Board of Trade
,should be furnished with greater means of general
superintendence and direction than they at present
possessed, it was his intention to transfer the appoint-
ment of the Receivers and Inspectors from the Trea-
sury to the Board of Trade. He would also propose
that the Isle of Man should be restored to its former
place amongst the maritime districts—the effect of
this would be to take away the facilities of evading
the system of taking the averages. Hitherto, the In-
, spectors were not bound to mate returns of the prices
and quantities sold of any but British Corn, the effect
of which mode of taking the averages was to ex.
elude the sale of Irish Corn, and this was dome by a
sort of Custom-hon.e interpretation of the word
H British." It would be amongst the provisions of
this Bill that all Irish Corn should be considered as
British Corn, what sold in the British market, and
admitted as such into the returns. He concluded by
wowing a Resolution, declaring it to be the opinion
of the Committee, that it is expedient to repeal the
31st, SW, 44th, and 45th of Geo. 111. relating to
Corn Averages, Ste.
Mr. CALCRAFT said he would postpone any Op-
position to the measure until it was brought forward
in the shape of a Bill; he would watch its progress
with jealousy.
Mr. BARING thought that the present time was
ill chosen for the introduction of this measure, as it
carried all the appearance of a measure of relief,
whilst, in effect, it did nothing towards that end, and
thereby increased the anxiety of an already suffi-
ciently irritated and agitated country. It was plain,
now, that the apprehensions of the agriculturists did
not arise from the probability of the importation of
foreign corn, but a depression of price. He could
not, then, see why false hopes should be raised on the
one side, and false fears on the other, by the agita-
tion of a measure which did not justify either, how-
ever certainly it would excite them.
Mr. IRVING agreed with the Hon. Gentleman
who had just sat down, in regretting the period at
which this measure was introduced. He hoped that
the labours of the Committee would be attended
with that benefit which was anticipated from them,
although he could not help thinking that the public,
and especially that part of it which had loaded the
table of that House with Petitions for relief, would
find that. their hopes were frustrated and deluded by
it. „It was certain that the mode of striking the ave-
rage*, which had been practised since the last enact-
ment on the subject, was most inaccurate, and per-
haps, not in one case could be considered to have
answered the spirit of the law, nor to have given the
public a true view of the case. When the Committee
came to investigate this great and important subject,
he hoped it would be released from the fetters which
impeded a free progress on the last similar occasion.
Mr. H. SUMNER said, that he considered the
[ measure one of protection to those who were suffer-
ing from the effect of frauds, and therefore it ought
not to be delayed. However, he had no hesitation in
saying that, if. this were the measure which Minis-
I Sea intended to propose for the relief of the Agri-
culturists, it, would be more candid in them to come
forward and declare it, and put an end to their delu-
sive expectations at once.
Mr. F. LEWIS said, that there could be no objec-
tion in fairness to as early an introduction as possi-
ble to a measure which had for its object the correc-
tion of an important error. The House should un-
derstand, however, before they entered hastily upon
a measure of this nature, that when the importation
price was flied nominally at eighty shillings, it was
founded upon the present system of taking the ave-
rages, so that if any alteration was attempted on the
prtuciple of taking them, it should be accompanied
by a corresponding variation in the importation price
of Corn. With respect to the provision for comput-
ing Irish Corn sold in the British market as British
Corn, he should observe, that in consequence of the

isitii.quility of Irish Corti, especially after Isaij liar-,
it fetched a very infelior price ; so that Collo- ;
dering it permanently with the British Corn for the
purposes of taking the averages, would he obviously
unfair, as it would tend to give an impression which
tie true state of circumstances would not justify. -
Mr. CURWEN said, that the country had been de-
frauded yearly of one million, by the fraudulent me-
thod of taking the averages which was hitherto in
operation. He thought that the provision affecting the
Isle of Man was essentially necessary, as hitherto the
country had been actually receiving a great quantity
of foreign Corn mixed up with the produce of that
Island, and sent in as its own. It had been said, that
the Agriculturists were not afraid of the importation of
foreign Corn so much as the depression of price at home.
But he would declare, that the great grievance was
the importation of foreign corn. If, after the closing
of the ports for four seasons, a scarcity should ari,e,
so that they would be opened to the importation of
foreign corn, the country would have the whole ac-
cumulated corn that had been laying for several years
ready for importation, thrown upon it, and abso-
lutely clogging the markets. Nor would the effect
of this continue only for a season, but it would con-
tinue to operate, probably, for the nest four years to
come. It had been said, last year, that the importa-
tion of 1814 and 1815 had no effect on the markets
afterwards. He denied this at the time, and he would
state, that since the opening of the ports in IblB and
1819, there were 50,000 quarters in the poi t of Lon-
don, ready, at the first opportunity, to beat down the
market. In addition to the evil consequences of the
fradu*.ent method of taking the averages, the agricul-
turist had to contend against this grievance, that for-
merly, when the farmer had a large quantity of corn
in the market above the immediate wants, he found
a ready purchaser in the speculator ; whereas, now,
the only purchaser was the immediate consumer; and
this was a great source of injury to him. He trusted
that Ministers would make some distinct declaration
as to the extent which they would go in relieving the
Agricultural Interest.
Mr. CU ItTEIS objected to the introduction of the
measure at the present time.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL approved of the measure.
He felt strongly the necessity of that House entering
upon the consideration of the distress of the Agricul-
tural Interest. He trusted that something effectual
would be done, otherwise they must sink farther into
gloom and despair.
Mr. RICARDO agreed that the opening of the
ports at any time would deluge the country with
corn ; but this was by ifficulty which no remedy that
could be proposed that House could remove. The
only way in which it could be removed was to keep
the price of British corn on a level with that of fo-
reign produce—(Laighter).—But it seemed to be the
with of some to raise the importation price. Suppose
it had been raised so as effectually to keep out foreign
grain, did the House suppose that any Minister, at a
period of scarcity, could enforce the law ? Thus the
effect must be the same, however the law was fixed.
Foreign corn must come in occasionally, and that coo
in such quantities as to render the protecting duties
of little avail to the farmer at home. The sure and
only remedy for all was, the total abolition of the
Corn Laws ; and sooner or later, he was convinced,
the House would agree with him.
Mr. LOCKHART said, that he would consider it
a sin to hold out this measure as one that carried
with it the slightest relief to the farmer.
Mr. BENETT entirely acquitted the Honour-
able Member for Portarlington of wishing to take
'airay the protection from the Agriculturalists, and
leave it with the Manufacturing Interests. He had
beard many propositions made for getting rid of the
National Debt, but he was afraid the execution of
these plans would be deferred, from time to time,
until the People were no longer able to pay the inte-
rest of the National Debt, and then it would be
effectually got rid of.
The several Resolutions wete then agreed to, the
House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be
received to-morrow.