Star.
London, England, 1817-07-01 00:00:00

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TUESDAY, JULY 1, 1317

over top m; and that it was with difficulty their case
had made its way to the public ; they had been sn
long so tonfinrcl, and without being brought to trial;
and that the father and son were at first loaded with
irons. He hoped this would not be found to proceed
from the Noble Secretary of State, and he trusted an
assurance would be given. that for the future no
such abuses of power would be soffered. He doubted
not but the Noble Viscount would afford every iill4.
mation in his power, on a topic of such•feeling and
importance.
Viscount SIDMOUTH could assure the Noble
Earl and the House in general, that life powers vested
in him by the measure in question, always were, and
I always Antall be exercised on his part, in a mode
very different from that which the Noble Earl seemed
to have learned. To his knowledge there was no
degree of rigour exercised but what was itbsolutely
necessary to the safe detention of the individuals so
confined. As to the particular instance referred to.
he could only state, that the Noble Earl had been
most grossly deceived. ,The Visiting Magistrates
were never debarred from communication with the
prisoners; and as to the allegation, that any obstruc-
tion was offered to the prisoners petitioning Parlia-
ment, it was positively false. -It had been denied, in
the answers given by him to certain queries, which
wese the sufiect of a former discus,ion, that all Ma-
gistrates generally had the power of commonicating
with such prisoners, but that the Visiting Magisiratcs
had the full power. A; w the circumstance of these
prisoners being conGned in dungeons. it was equally
untrue. He had interrogated the keeper of the prison
himself, and it appeared they were confined in rooms
of 25 by 18 feet dimensions, and they were provided
with every thing that could contribute to the comfort
of persons so confided. It was notrue that any diffi-
culty was thrown in the way of their petitioning. as
was well known to their Solicitor ; and, in point of
fact, their petitions had been presented to tile other
House of Parliament. Upon the whale, he mast
think that the statement of the Noble Earl was
grounded on gross misrepresentation from some quar-
ter, and from mistake or ruiaconceptiou on the part
of the Noble Lord.
Earl GROSVENOR entertained no doubt that as
far as the Noble Viscount was concerned, these un-
fortunate persons were well treated; but it may be
different in several other cases not within his purvnw,
and such considerations chewed the dangerous come.
quences of giving such uncontrouled powers the
measure in question went to convey, and also the i
dangers of encouraging a system of spies Had in-
formers, which so greatly tended to demoralize the
people. •
Lord sfoltrrorer said, that wish reference to
what had fallen from a Noble Lord; he thought it
but justice to state, that as a Magistrate of the county,
bot. , NOS oppeilosity of kasoosiag aheirsiacper.ot
the Prison in winch those persons were touting). and
he must say, that he never knew a more mild,. well
tempered, or humane man.
ViscOont 51D MOUTH observed, that be believed
it was generally the practice to put persons so coo.
v seed In trons in the first instance, but as soon as the
circumstance came to his knowledge in the particular
case, he ordered them to be taken off, and they were
accordingly removed.
Lord REDZSDALC, and the Earls RosstNn and
Gnosvano* made a tew remarks. but principalty with
reference to some points which were advanced in a
former discussion.

The Question was then pnt. when the Marc nil of
Lasspawar's Amendment WAS negatived', and their
Lordships agreed to the Amendments made by the
Compton% in the Bill, and a bless4ge was ordered to
inform that House thereof.
. ,
MARCUM AISoLITION, AND OFFICIAL RECULATIoN

The Earl of LI4ER.POOL moved the Order of 1 ,
the Day respecting these nieasures.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE Raid, that before
the discussion was regularly entered upon, he V.,shed
for s 'me necessary inforataVon- respecting certain
points. He understood that the Noble Eal wished
these measures to be considered generally, and a.
funning a whole. In this view, lie must observe,
that to the Report obtained from the Commons upon
the subject, there were several Oakes expressly stated
as &moues, and proper to be abolished, which ti rin-
I et) no pin whatever of the Bills upon the Table.--
This required some explanation, and it also should
' be stated what Offices were meant to be abolished,
and what were meant to be retained, because by one
of them DEW powers were to be given.. The Rupert
stated the amount of the .01lices recommended toe
abaliuon, including the Irish and Colonial. which,
I in the aggregate, constituted a consider Ale sum.—
i The expression of existing interests he thought should
{ be clearly defined, and shcw it it at all differed from
what was meant by vested -interests. It was proper
the House should know what it was called upon to
enact. With respect to the article of Pensions, also,
which were meant to be conferred, it should he
known whether any Pension, whicn 'may be previ-
ously held, was to ituaitiu exclusive of the new Pen-
sion granted, or whether •the former was to be re-
served to the Public ?

The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that un •
questionably the Offices alluded to were recommend.
ed for abrogation in the Report; and altho' be thought
that document may generally be a ground for their
Lordships' proceeding; yet it did not necessatily
scat All the suggestions in the Report were
to be acted apon. There were also sonic specific
uteastltve refereed to, or arising out of wh t had been
suggested, which it would be impracticable to car►y
into effect in the present Session. To some of these
the Noble Earl mterred, particularly certain Scots
Offices,• rod also to the. Regulation of the Office ot
Cierk ot Ruh:meats. These subjects would be con•
sidered ot, so As to be brought netealter under the
consideration of Parliament. With respect to several
of the Irish Offices, the situation in which some of
the immediate io erests were placed. tin.lered it ion
possibly he the it,eseht to brine thern antler

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