Star.
London, England, 1820-05-19 00:00:00

CIVIL LIST BILL.

Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the Order of the
Itay for reading the .Report on this Bill.
Mr. CURWEN rose, and expressed his disappoint-
ment that some diminution had not taken place in
the Expenditure of the Crown. He was the last man
in the House who would desire to see the Crown
stripped of that degree of splendour to which it was
citified, but he thought, that iu times like the pre-
seni, of general distress and difficult;, the greatest
ornament it could display would be economy. That
that diminution was urgently called for, any man
must see who opened his eyes and looked at the state
of the Country, and his only regret was, that some
proposition had mot been introduced on this subject,
as he most certainly should hive supported it.

Mr. MONCK. rose to call the attention of the
House to the allowances made to Ambassadors gnii
Envoys, which exceeded, beyond all proportion, those
which had been' established in other countries. It
surely could not be derogatory to our national con-
sequence, if we formed our Expenditnre, in this re-
spect, upon the same scale with France, which was
the greatest Monarchy in Europe. There, were
.in
France :two classes of Ambassadors, and an' indivi-
dualin the first or highest class received only a salary
of £6,000 or 150,000 francs, as regularly established,
though, from the increased expense attending a resi.,
dence in this country, the Ambassador here received,
an addition, which made his salary amount to £B,OOO
or 200,000 francs. But those who were delegated
to the principal Courts among our Ambassadors re-
ceived no less a sum than £12,000 yearly, and those
'at the inferior Courts from £5,000 to £6,000. This
' was exactly double of what was paid by the greatest
Monarch in-Europe to his Ambassadors ; and it made
1 yearly difference of £BO,OOO, which might well be
saved, as there was no just reason why we should pay
£BO,OOO annually more than the King of France.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that an accurate
•
sChedule on the subject had been made out in the
year 1815, and every reduction effected which was
compatible with. the dignity of so distinguished an
offsce. In Paris, where there was a house for the
Ambassador, the allowance was £ll,OOO alear ;
and he assured the Honourable Member that the
scale had been made out rather with a view to eco-
nomize than impoverish. It was thought more ad-
visable to fix a liberal salary at once, in order to avoid
anything in . the shape of extraordinaries. Besides,
some regard was to be had to the manner in which
the' people of this Country were accustomed to live
in foreign States, which necessarily induced :. greater
degree of expense.
Mr. D. W. HARVEY contended, that the Noble
Lcrd had offered no arguments ti) the I louse to shew
why such large salaries ought not to be reduced.
One could net help being struck by the appeals made
to certain periods, which the Noble Lord so conve-
niently resorted to when he sought to impress his
opinions on the minds of young Members. He had
done so in this instance, fOr he had reverted to the
scale which had been fixed in the year 1815, with-
out, however, giving to the House a clear and satis-
factory proof that the sums fixed by it chewed a due
regard to economy. It had recently been said, that
the Committee of fifteen Members which had been
appointed, would exclude the necessi:y of all inquiry
into the Civil List, but he and many others were
quite of a different opinion. Ile thought it strange
in the beginning of a new Parliament and of a new
Reign, when the Members returned to that House
were pledged to their Constituents to support every
measure of economy and retrenchment, that no such
Disposition was actually evinced, and lie could not,
therefoie, withhold die expression of his regret that
a motion on the subject had not been introduced.
Mr. PHILLIPS followed briefly on the same side,
and said, he had yet to learn from the Noble Lord
why the salaries of Ambassadors ought net to be re-
duced in consequence of the improved state of the
currency from the time the vale had been made out.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, silica the arrange.
ment was made, it was specifically agreed that our
Ambassadors should have a fixed salary, indepen-.
dent of any alteration in the currency. That salary
was to cover all extraordinaries, and was not liable
to be increased on account of any unfavourable fluc-
tuation in the foreign exchanges. As to the Ho-
nourable Member's information relative to the pay-
ment of foreign Ambassadors, he knew not the source
from which he had derived it, and, of course, could
not answer for its correctness.

Mr. MONCK said, he had derived his information
from a Fre.,ch Gentleman who WAS in the diploma-
tic line.

Sir ROBERT WILSON thought it right'to state,
in justice to the British Ambassadors, that the calls
on their hospitality were more extensive than those
which were made on the -Ambassadors of any other
cotnitry—( Hear).
The Report was then agreed to, and the Bill or-
dered to lee I•cad the third time to-mbrrow.