Star.
London, England, 1827-08-17 00:00:00

respect to education, be has greet doubt of the Safety of the
system of education as now conducted ; he would give the pre-
ference to Instruction rather than no Instruetinn; but he thinks
there wants to he ksyetem of Industry promoted with the instruc-
tion. He thinks the Sunday Schools are very excellent things; the
children ore never employed on that day, and, as they willicon-
gregate, they bail better ceopegate is Sunday Schools. , But
where there is only a system of education without sowing the seeds
of industry, it does not go tar enough. The boil are at school ill
day, and do not leant habits of industry from their parents as
they used to dn. They afterwards, however, frequently forget
what they have learnt. He remembers a charity school in the
town where he resides, hi which the woollen business was con-
ducted; they went to labour by spinning, and on the alternate days
they went to reading; their were few commitnients of persons
educated in that •chool. Ile thinks, however, upon the whole.
that if education bad not been introduced, the increase of crime
would have been greater than it now is.
Sir Thomas Baring, a Member of the Committee, having acted
as a Magistrate lot about twenty years, in he county of Hants,
states, that offences of an atrocious character have diminished, ex-
cepting. home and sheep-stealing ; but petty (Avocet increased to a
very .g..:at dogrel. Thete have been frequently as many as fifty,
sixty, and seventy ritisoners in the House ot C 1 ection fur offences
against the Game laws; exclusive of iilt-tice. against the Game
Laws of greater magnitude. Me Committee call the attention of
the House to the following parts of the examination of Sir Thomas
'Wing
• Du you remember at what time the great increase of offences
with regard to the Game, began?—l thinks fur the last three or
four years there has been a g eat increase.
Do you attribute that to the increase, of distress, or the increase
of Game, affording greater opportunity 7—To botls
flare the people keen generally in p vidrse efindhltes during the.
last-three or tour years than they went hofore?-e-d ;hill's, they cer-
tainly have; and whenever the price 420518114ra' produce is low,
distress. prevails amongst the agricultural labourers
During times of distress, is poaching the Most tommon offence?
I think it is almost the only ofrence ter Whichilistress drives the.'
agricultural labouring population, except poultry stealing and wood
stealing, which have prevailed to a great degree also.
Do you think that if there were no game, di.ttess would have
caused poultry stealing, and other offences of the like kind, to an
equal amount 1-1 should think not, truss the facility with which
that offence may be committed as compared with other petty
offences.

Has there been a great Increase in the quantity of gamesreserv-
ed?—Very considerable, and conhned to small woods, making it
extremely easy for them to he taken.
V, what species of game do you refer?—Game in the woods—
hares and pheasants ; but I can mention au instance where game is
preserved to t`lie highest degree almost of any property in that part
of the country ; and, in consequence of some illiberal obset ',dens
in one of the Newsp .pers, that the proprietor had occasioned a num-
ber of ',vont% to be committed for poaching, I had the curiosity to
inquire what number of persons had been committed for poaching
upon that property since the game was first preserved, for the last 13
years, and in that period only three persons had been committed for
poaching on that property.
To what du you attribute that?—ln cmsequence of the srrict
watch and the number of persons employed to preserve the game
Do you believe that if the labourers were paid adequate wages
there would be much poaching I—l feel e,athient that there would
nut, and I can speak from personal evverierce. In the part of
the country in which I reside poaching existed to a consider-
able extent ; front attention to the employment of the poor,
and to their conduct al.u, I can say, that for the last two years
no one instance of poaching has occurred, committed by the
persons of that neighbourhood. It bad been the custom of far-
mers in the winters months to reduce the price of labour from
9s. and 10s. to 7s. and Bs. 1 prevailed upon them last year nut to
reduce the labour at all, but to keep it at 9s. and 1 endeavoured to
chew them, and did succeed in persuading tht as, that they would
not lose by the sweet ; that they would have nearly as much to
pay in parish rates, and the result b..s been that the people were
well nil; and in no instance hat there been a complaint made to
me, as a Magistrate, front au, party of the neighbourhood For any
criminal offence committed ; a CUCURIft:III:e which has not occur red
in any former year.
Were all the lahoureriteepinyed during the winter 7—The whole
OT them were employed. Whenever a person was found wanting
employment, by agreement amongst the farmers he is taken into
the employment of come one of them, and nut allowed to remain
unentpluyed.
Du not you think that the present romner of administering the
Poor Laws leads to an isict.e....e"of the population beyond the means
of employment? - I think the'll'oor Law. have been very much
abused. It test:iced to their ongurel inn:natio and purpose, they
would be productive of the greate.t benefit to the country ;sabused,
they arc prixtuctive of great evil. If they were confined
simply to provide fur the aged and infirm and impotent, and not
applied as they are now to the payment of part of the wages to the!
labourers, they would he productive of good.' There is also mixed
up in what is termed l'ot:r Rates tha which doex not belting to
them, and which ought to tft-orparAred ; aittl I think if m cotta of
intelligence would look mote accur,tely into the management of
the pour, and to their comforts and conduct, the system of the
Poor Laws would be a national benefit, and not an injury, both to
the poor at:d to the rich.

What do you thick is the objection felt to making that change
on the part of the farmirs generally?— I think 111 the first instance,
the desire to throw the barthen (ruin themselves upon others, and
also in a great measure, from an indifference which prevails lit theirs
minds, with respect to the moral cb.tractrr aed conduct of the
poor; that wheat they have 19 pay lis. wages instead rf 7.. they do
not take into cotieideration th.t in the event tat their paying 7s.
they will very frequently h Ye i early a. much to pay Li the sh..pe ut
their proportion to the P.Sor's Rate..
Should the Committee be ri.tiewed next year, some valuable in-
formatirin may be exp.cted from Sir T. Baring on the subject id
Pt ison Discipline.
The Committee refer the Douse to his evidence for the plan of
1 a village shop which he has adopted, with great benefit to this
labourer.
Sir James Graham, Baronet, has acted for the last eight years
as a Magistrate for the county of Cumberland; until within the
list eighteen months he has not observtd any increase ot crime;
hut since the commeccement of diets:me among the hand-loom
weaver. in Carlisle and its vicinity, crime has increased in th..t
ra•ticular district. In the ciAnity Cat Cumbell.nd it is universally
'he custom to retuse any payment of wages out of the Pour Bares,
the consequence is, that the rate it waves is higher in Cumbet laud '
than in almost any other agricultural county; a ploughman there
receives at least 124. a week ; in many case. the cottsgers have
rooms rent free, and in Can Case does a field labourer receive Isis than
Ilid. a day, if he be a good workman. Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act
has been carried almost utliversally into execution ; Select Vestries
assemble regularly accottling to the provisions of that Act ; neither
rent not wages are p.id out got the Patur Rates, except in special case.
relief is refused ; and the poor rates, mitwithstanding the increase
of manufacturing pueerty,'have diminished real in the manufac-
turing districts since IBID. " In the' plirThes with which I am
mole particulatly connected, as in ing-the principal proprietor with.l
in them, upon the first passing of .Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act, I
availed myself, with the cimeurrencie if As' Vestry; of a provision
contained in it fur raising money fine" the linhaisie of enlarging the'
poor=house. At that time the plitistioi tiVfieradoli J. *Rode were is
the habit of paying rents out of tie p'elOi.iatt i'llity became con.
vlnceil.that this was an unwise and prodigatexpendloire, and though
'the oddity in enlarging the work.housr wit considerable, amount-
ing to somewhat more than 4001. at least of one half year's rate, yet
when the work-house was finished, they were' enabled at once to
refuse relief to all persons unwiling to go there, and the number of
applicsrits diminished so notch, that in the course of two years the
panid was reimbursed tor the whale outlay, and at the present too-
ment,'as I mentioned betore„ no rents are paid Out of the Poor
Barna*, and =persons are relieved, except under very special cir-
cunina'nces, at their own house..
The habits of the agricultural labourers, are ninrsl, industrious,
and economical- Thera still exists a great spirit of Independence,
'and the utmost want anddistress are Mien endured with patience, hi
preference to an application to the Vestry. In Cumberland, how-
ever, both the fanners and, agricultural labourers are content with
very mean and scanty Moil ; the sustenance of the labourer consist.
almostentirely of milk. poiatoes, and iiionwal ; he very rattly e.ts
meat. The Situation 'Attie armor is very little better Car more lux-
urious. Upon the whole, twitters'. the farmer .nor the agiicultur.l la-
bourer it in a worse condition than be was io year. ago. Sir James
Graham is of opinicri"that the power given by Mr.Siurgeslkaurne's
Act of enlarging workhriusts, and ot niak in.:. them capable of contain-
ing all persons to whom the parish is hound to give relteGand a steady
as= rence to the principle ot never giving it out of the workhouses,
coupled with such regulations of the workhouse itself, as are now
consistent with the law of the land (the utility of which is exem-
pfified in the management of the workhouse at Liverpool), would
supply the means of checking the natural improvidence of the
labourer, and his diapiaiition to early marriage ; he would fear to
make himself dependent on parish relief; he would look at the
workhouse with dread, not as at present, almost with indifference;
and by the increased exertions of the labouring classes thinisekei,
by greater prudence on tbeir part, formed by a wiser administration
of die existing law, I ant disposed to think that the Pour Bates