Star.
London, England, 1829-04-15 00:00:00

Mussa-end Mr. Alderson Woo* she created the second
.ahey
41.1
Mr. C. PALLMEit replied. wins the Muse tbadedoad there
appeared fee the second reading
Ayes . 3S
Noes . .

Alaiotity in favour of the second reading —4O
M. BANKER presented a Nikkei from the Archdeacon and
Clergy of Dorset against the Catholic Claims.
Mr. BROWN LOW presented a Petition Irons Brewers and
Whiter, of the North of Ireland, praying for a• equalization of
t►e Duties on ilak and Spirus in Ireland and Bcodan4.

After a few words from the Csaar.nams et the ISCIIIIII.I.
the Petition was ordered to be printed.
Mr. BROWN LOW presented a Petition from the Dian Ii of
Westmeath, complaining of the mossier is which the cams et
Sult.lberiff was Oiled in Ireland, and praying that the soltert
Might be inquired into.
Net a few observations from Mr. Beowstnw. Mr. Denney,
Mr. WattAca, Mr. Seat= Rice. Mr. Maniacs Firsintamm. and
Lord Lavas= Goma, the Petition was ordered to be printed.
lit. BROW NLOW moved for a return of the ease of the elm
Slab-Sherd' of Westmeatb, referred to by Lord Wemateath.
A away was hots& from the Lords, stating theft Loral**
agreement to several Bills. and requesting a copy of the Report of
the Committee open the Coal Trade. presented on the Sid of Joao.
Mr. WALLACE presented two Petitions from the enemy el
Leitrim, against the Sob-letting Aet, and one from WeafortL
Coles= DAVIS gave entice, that on the 14th of May he should
bring forward a motion to regulate the hoer by a maoille=l
tar the receiving itt petitions by the House. The Hon.
ebio gave notice of a motion for Thurmlay the blst of Jane. with
a view to the employment of convicts in our Colonies,* in his Ma.
jesty's service.
Mr. MALCOLM pretested a Petition from the iiihabitaat
Berton, praying (or a repeal of the Howe and Window Tab
Mr. F. BUXTON moved for copies of all the eerrespmeenre
between Ms Majesty's Government and Foreign Powers, relaire
to the Slave Track. More the Ist of January, I•2B.—Ordered.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD asked the Ho= Member
(Mr. Tennyson) to postpone his motion relative to this
Fund to a future day, in order that the adjourned diaa-7==
the Silk Trade might proceed. as early as possible.
Mr. TENNYSON said he had no objection to postpone k met
the Ist of May, provided the Worthy Alderman near him would
postpone the kiosk* up of the Report oo the Leaden Bridge
BUI until a subeespent day to that.
Alderman WOOD said he had no objection to the Report bolt
isreoght up the da after the mocha of the Ho= Member.—The
=Woo was sowrdMgy pompom&
oamunnen mums.
Sir 0. COCKBURN moved the Order of the Day for theHoose
resolving Itself isms a Committee of the whole Howe open the
Gireeowlek Hespitel 1111.—The Mown having resolved itself =to a
Committee,
par. lIUME said be observed a clause in the BM to prevent the
person to be appointed as Trustee fatehliereby =eating his seat
In Paraiba". He ebbed to know els amplest was to be
latredoceitie the rate, by whisk of Paribassot were
bound to 'MOP diet mu en aseophy pleas of eisolonsent.
Sir CCOVKIWRN said that posses Andel to already
held a high "Maths is Greenwich Tidal, and the appointment
he was now to U win bat a sight alseradea of the ditty be already
rforneed, and it WWksthought therein, vonecomary that he should pnip his mt.
Mr. HUME asked if the BEI was to apply to all prams who
=lila in bare MI the plias
Mr 0. COCKBURN mid, certainly net.
Mr. NUM= kepteised Idatielf and and the clam
agt.e.! 11.

, Mr. 114,11BUITON odd a few words Is a very low taw td
votes, witsb we understood to be oireedve of a desk as to
Ne proper ausagentent of die motes et i Noble sod unions.
sate itort—orbkb opiates bid bites eindleated tee. tbs use et the

Bonita.
Lord LOWTHRI NM. dot ma Waft nor the moons .t'
'Greatwith Betpital hot qtr, he Mat then is a rant direr.
Isobel late, sod lomoollitag let ahem limn% amen spas
Maw spawn With input No the estates
MO. tirlenft
_to the hos.
_lahe
plod alkslei ftwd, to wink the /Maw hol ea-
to Wino Ida that they wen n well onsepd
as any mienq the kiithrosoe Was proved by dirk innand
ran. Whew int they were eenbeatei they were wank eery
nor tbeseued pooh per mans ; any he/ earthy loweend
n Woe se tit theoesod pools p* asneo, aM were et that on
non ntsaly meth 40,010 L a your.
The etherenoire were thus agreed to, Pb. Mon roomed. ai
the Wen walentersta to be Wight op sawn*.

Mr. HUME thee mover! the Order of the Day for
taking halo consideration the 'state of the Silk Trade.
The Order of the Day having been read, the Honour-
able Member said that, on entering the House yester-
tmfHhoreiettcdtee.egitabsi:
icy, be did not intend to addrea the house, but to give
a silent eye in opposition to the mourn* for a Corn-
eissetteSmat,edibono
tsewilierrian.brr isnwridcingeloicc)hirdncthhceiumriir
eottmianitt
slier
crable ourse ulcer, 7ain
;Tee:.
as he should consider it
his duty to enrolment upon wine things which had gees
stated by that Hoamirakte Menstor, *hose math, city
upon subjects of that nature was so' great tha: it was
necessary that the erroneous 'opinions which he had
stated to the Houle should not go forth to the country
without an 'answer. Waib every thing stated by the
Honourable fairthiser for Coventry (except a few ge-
neral pa cifoositroasyhe (Mr. Hume) agreed. He admi:.
ted the greansese of the- distress which existed in the
Silk 'Trade, out only in lipitalfielk but throughout the
manufacturing districti elsewhere; but he denied the
truth of the position Which the Honourable Member
bad over and over again laid down, namely, that " the
trial of the flee trade system had been made is 1826,
and that it had failed, and bad nearly ruined both :the
rowster and manufacturer." This conclu.i n he (M-.
Hum.) denied, as well as the cause to which the Hon.
Meath*. had imputed the distress; and both he thought
were contradicted by the figurr s of the Honooral le
Mover himself. In order to show the truth of this. he
(14-. Hume) should refer to the sta:e r f the trade for
the fifteen years which had takes place since Vie peace,
including the years 1814 and 1818. All that time may
be divided into three periods, namely, from 1814 to
1818 ; 1819 to 1825; 1924 to 1828. la the first of
these periods the amount of -silk lampooned into this
country was 1,526,0001. in the second period it was
2,185,0001. in the third period it was 3.716.0001. This
would insioediately show how onfounded had been the
1 statement of the Honourable Member for Coventry,
who said that in the period abohMrstent oned there had
been a seduction of 700,0001. in 1,800,0001. A* thee -
curious fact was, that in these fifteen years the quantiiy,
taking the average, of thrown silk had not one year
amounted to 50,0001. whereas the variation in the Um-
portation of the raw material had beets m. re then
dabbled. The inclusion which be drew fawn .these
facts, that although in 1814 'the protectmg ante Or die
throwster was 'reduced to severs shillings and sizpits4,
and in 1824 and 1825 to ss. yet DO alteration had taken
place is the amount of thrown silk imported ioto-diis
country.. In the year 1795 and the five succeeding years
as much thrown silk had been imported into this coon;
try as in the five years now list past; yet the &nowt -
nee duties in the importation of thrown.silk had been
regularly on the increase from 1195 to 1814, nd the
fact that the importation did not increase when the dm
ties sere low, plainly showed briw little the thruwstess
had to fear from an extension of the principles of free
trade in the importation if thrown silk. In fact, the
amount of the protecting duty was quite ti slog when
ermaparedwltretbet gesourrettheorree silk to whics:nr-
had been applied. Upon 4,000,000 pounds weight of
silk, worth shout 5,000,001 W. stealing. the pootecting
'duty amounted only to 60,0001. Tile mut bum y front
which we obtained the quantity of thrown silk imported
into this country veal now very nearly the same as thirty
years age,. Attempts had keen made in several puts
of the north of Europe, in Poland, Gerbiany. and Mis-
sies to establish a silt trade, and this had prodsiced a
demand opin the thrown silt of the ',alien market
erhieh prevented any additional imp..rtation into this
country. Under the circumstances of the cite he finped
that the throwatets *timid themselves vane to the
Right Hon. Gentleman, and show their diLinaerestedness
by requesting him to. admit thrown silk without any
duty. add more especially at the duty was so Small in
proportion to the wht4e value bf the article imported.
But in anotherpoint W view the case would appter
equally striking. in the leaf. 1828 there had been
22,400 bales Of Silk imported into this eonatry. .H6trr.
tit tl:is quantity only 2,171 bales were thrown silk. te.ey,
ing 20,229 bates of raw si k, eveiy orriceof .ehicli
been throWn by the aninsitoctufers of this count'''.
,The
throwsiers, therefore, instead cir haviag any caul of
germ. had at 'least ten to one in their fay to. as the
qu nutty of thrown silk imported was only no e-teoth
of what had been 'thrown in this country:- Al. Omit
facts showed that the alarm of the throw.teis was. no.
found. d ; and when the sospenci which prevailed upon
the subject should have been taken away, bs the passing
tit a law allowing of the free importation of thr..wis silk,
individuals Who now opposed the syStesn of free toads,
would wonder at the dangers by which they bad been
frightened. If the facts which he had now stated, and
which he took from official returns, were to be relied
on, be hoped that the Hon.rdover would mo liouger per.
severe in the stateibent that the system of 'see trade bad
been tried and had failed. The Hon.Membes for Newark
had stated some propositions last night which be (Mr.
Home) thought ill founded, and which. moreover,
were in direct opposition to the opinions which .he
nourable Member had esprested iu another manner.
In a publication of the Honourable Member it was
ezpoessly stated, that el one of the greatest bleisingi iif
mankind was the enabling of each country to exchange
the superfluities of its produce for those of other core-
tries." Yet,' in oppositites to this principle, the Hots.
Member for Newark had last night asserted,that every
pound of foreign goods imported into this country dis-
placed an equal quantity of, the goods and labors} of
this country, and introduced a proportionate shate of
idleness and distress. But, in knower to this, he (Mi.
Home) should maintain that for every poind of foreign
goods brought into this country a pound of 'oar &Cods
was given in ezchlinge. It wit said ilso.by thellon.
Member' for Newark, and by triennia. Member foe
Canino* that geld-Must be sent Out of this coast*
to pay tor the-goods impOeted; and both Honoorabli
Members considered this exportation. of gold a stest
evil to the country. But be thought that tbeespeirtatien
of gold *as one of the greatest blades, ,which the
mentry could enjoy, as the gold was not produced it
this country, and must have been previously. obtaio4
M exchange for the pradaetions of our own labour. HO
(Or. Hasne) theiefort wondered that the Hosoureble
Member for Calliopes (Mr. Swine) shintld ha**
mated so anork de expostadoe of gold out of the
arettr;ie I. He (fir. Home) had often wondered token,'
to the essii Of torn the d'octrines which tin
aolalletable bird** for Ca3lliagwo fiid laid dowsi ova

the subject of the exportation of gold. In spite of
•
France, a reciprocity must take place in case of ever,
pound's worth of goods imported from that cc/Unify
into England. He-did not care whether this recipe,-
city was founded upon treaties, or seknowleigkd at the
• Custom House, or only produced by the intervention
--cf smuggling; the reciprocity would undoubtedly exist.
"A rest deal of reflections had been made upon those
-who were called political economists, amongst whom
he admitted that he was enumerated himself. -?h
Waourable Seconder of the motion (the Member for
Worcester) had, however, last night thanked his stars
that he was no political economist—(Hear, hear)
The definition of political economy was that of* science
which consisted in the knowledge of the laws which
' regulated the production and distribution of those ar-
titles which possessed an exchangeable value, and which
were either necessary, or useful, or agreeable to man.
Notwithstanding the nature and objects of this science
there were every day found men wbd returned public
thanks to GOD for their ignorance of the principles of
that science which influenced the greatest number of
the effects to which the attention of Legislators was
called every day. The Hon. Member for Newark had
• not defined what he meant by the tree trade to which
he objected, and this want of an understanding of the
terms used in the discussion had led in this, as in other
cases, to great confusion. He (Mr. Hume) understood
by free trade—a trade not limited by any restrictions;
and. acting tin this principle, be wished that the whole
civilised world were one series of cbmaisrcial States,
exchanging their proioce amongst themselves as freely
as the several counties within the kingdom of England.
Those who opposed the principle of free trade should
(if they were inclined to push home their principles)
carry them to the same extent in this country as they
were carried to in Sicily, where there were seven or
eight provinces. and where a sack of flax could not be
carried across the frontier from one province into ano-
ther without the intervention of a Board of Commis-
sinners. Every body knew that it was to the existence
of some degree of free trade that we owe the greatest
y art of the conveitiencies of life. But, if the opponents
iii the measure were true to their own principles, they
must aNalidon every thing but the produce of the farm
yard. Tae Hon. Member for Coventry said that this free
_ • trade •►as very beautiful in theory, but injurious in
practice. Now he (Mr. Hume) could not see how that
could be—indeed, he thought it morally impossible.—
The House had been told by the Hon. Member for
Callington that the English manufacturer laboured
under great disadvantages, and that the foreign maws-
.
I tourer enjoyed advantages which rendered it impos-
sible for the English manufacturer to compete with
him. The Hon. Member bad also, in the course of his
speech, reflected upon the doctrine held by the late
' Right Hon. Sir George Rose, at a former discussion of
the question; and yet, before he sat down, the Hon.
klember himself had concurred in that Right Hon.
-Gentleman's sentiments, and said he had, in 1826, fore.

told the difficulties into which the trade had fallen, un-
less protection were extended to it. Who did the Hon.
• Member mean to protect? The individual who would
have to c •meete with the foreign manufacturer in the
tHreign market? If so, let him gave to that individual
the r material on such terms as would enable him'
to enter upon that competition. The comparative state
of i:rance and England, with respect to the production
of .ilk, had been referred to. How stood the facts?
The en.ire annual consumption of silk in France was
shalt 50,000 41,4. or 5,000,0001b5. of which about
29.000 or 90,000 gds. were of French produce; the
remainder was imported from Italy, from Persia, and
elsewhere. Now, the Hon. Member for.Callington had
'.put it to the House, that a portion of the .ilk werked
' up in France being of French produce, the English ma-
nufacturer, whose countay p'oduced none, could not
compete with him., Did the circuits to tee of France pie.
dodos the raw mates i ri protect the manuf .cturer from
foreign competition? No; for these were iiii poi tations
of m anuf. c: used silk into France from Tut key and from
lash,. He (Mr. Ilume) would. therefore, say, remove
the 17 per cent. which continues to shackle the English
minufacturer, and there was little doubt that be would
be able to produce his fabric as cheap as the Lyons
• trissnufac urer could. The markets of Italy were open
to us as to the French, who drew two-fifths of their raw
material from thence. We bad, therefore. the means
of meeting the French m .nufacturer in all the articles
into the composition of which Italian silk entered, and
that we were capable of doing so be bad the authority
of several eminent manufacturer. It was in fancy
articles that the French surpassed us; in every other
which we had attempted we had beaten them, and he
had my doubt that we should soon be superior to them
in the manufacture of silks as we were in that of cotton.
It had been said that the silk manufacture was an
exotic. Was that any rlsson why we should not, in a
.shoot dme. attain to perfection in producing it? Cer-
tainly not, and in that as ertion be was fully borne out
by the result of our efforts hitherto; for so considerable
had our progress within a few years been, that he was
assured by many manufacturers that on looking back
a• the articles formerly manufactured by them, and
comparing thear with their present products, they were
surprised at titer own improvement. From all he had
said he was iberefore katified in saying, that place the
E glisb manufacturer on a footing with the Lyonnais
(as repecred the price of the raw material), and he
winli he able fully to compe'e with him. He admitted,
with Hon. Members. the state of distress under which
the EnOi h nranolacturer at present suffered, but
similar and equal distress pievailed in France. Ile held
in his hand a Ly.ns newspaper of the 25th of Februaty
last, which contained an account of a meeting bold in
that city (at which the Maya presided), for the purpose
*of entering into a subscription for the dis.ressed and
unemployed silk manufacturers. The Maor himself
subscribed 5,000 francs. He (Mr. Hume) had had a
letter lately from Lyons, which stated the continuance
'of that distress; that, of 22,000 loons generally ear
• ployed there; fully one-third were idle; aqd that the
wages had been rederced much more considerably than
in'England; for instatik, in one article from bp. to
sd. Distress being. therefore, -as extensive and as ex-
treme in Lyons as an England, ao argument could be
founded un the distress which unhappily ; revailed.beie
'in support of a proposition to return to the prohibitory
'system. The lion. Member here proceeded to enforce,
the same arguments, in reply to various othei portions
of the speech of the Hon. Member for Callington, con-
*tending that the English manufacturers having suc-
ceeded to such an went, even though trammelled by a
duty of seventeen per cent. in the raw material, it war
unfair for that Win. Member (Mr. Baring) to say that
the experiment made of partial relaxation bad failed.
He could not approve of the exptessions of despoil-
dace' y to which Honourable Members had given
Sear. There was no reason for entertaining or ex- •
ptes•itog any such feelings; and. in answer to those
of. the Hon.. Member for CAllington. qttered list night. '
be tbruitin he mien successfully pioiligntthe
Arade by the same Hon. Member onihe Bth of May,
1826, at which time distress prevaarea to wail, tha
•

same extent as at present, Consistency williZeing
evtn in tharHouse—ate so,,asimatisfactory
clusjiie bad bet% the reasonint and the arganients of
thellon. Meinberfittallington, that he (Mr. Hants)
*di stilt in &subtler which.pWe'of the question fissi'
Hscortroble,Oentlerean *alit to vote. The Hasionot
able Wernher here refeired to the petition which haf
en a former occasion been presented to the House, and
contended that the Honourable Member for Cagington;'
not having shown any injury done to the manufacturer
by -the experiment, hi the misting of which he. had
concurred, he (Mr. Baring) Was bound to concur, in the'
proposed farther extension of the principle of relaxation.
One or two points .more remained of the Honourable
Member's speech to which he (Mr. Humo)'begged he
might be allowed to advert. It was quite impossible
for any Honourable Member to prove that, under any
circumstances, commerce or manufactures had im-
proved under restrictions. In France the resided*
system had been carried to an extent scarcely na edible.l
(Hear, from Mr. C. Powlett Thomson). That par; if'
the case he should, however, leave to his Honourable
Friend. the Member for Dover (Mr. Thomson). lie
should,notw ithstandingoefer to a ease nearly in poi nt.The

town of Tarrare, in the south of France. wits the Paisley
of France. The yarn spinners of Tarrare, at a moment
of distress, applied to the French Government to pro-
tect them, by prohibitory duties, against the introduc-
tion of English yarn. The Government acquiesced.
and laid on a duty of sixty or seventy per cent. on the
ankle; the consequence was, that the manufacturers
of muslin and cottons were obliged to smuggle in
their yarns from England. In fact, in spite of the
prohibitory duties, the French muslin manufacturers
were ruined. In one town which bad been much en-
gaged in that branch of manufacture, nine out of every
ten of the looms were idle. He should mention one fact
to show the difficulty of maintaining a restrictive sysH
tem. An ingenious individual, a native of this
country, had obtained a patent for an improved ma.
chine for the snanufactutecii lace or bobbinet, by which
the plain article was made at one, hundredth part of
the cost of production by band. He obtained from the
French Government leave to bring over his invention
to France, and to manufacture bobbinet there. English
yarn only was fit (or his purpose, and on account of
the heavy duty or; that article he was obliged to smuggle
his whole supply; and the French Government finding
it impossible to prevent it, at last winked at it, and al-
lowed him to smuggle in all the yarn he wanted for his
manufacture. A similar case occurred in another dis-
trict of Rance, pear the frontiers, where, notwithstand-
ing all the motions of the authorities, the proprietor
of certain machinery, an Englishman. smuggled in
'all the material be wanted. The same line of argument
was supported by that which took place respecting
watches and jewellery in France. Nearly the whole of
the articles of that description to be found iu the shops of
Paris were manufactured in Switzerland, and although
strictly prishibited, were delivered there, (smuggled of
course) at a premium of /3 per cent. on the first cost.
Such were the effects of the prohibitory system in F. mice,
and he bad little dodbt that the Government of that
country were prepared to meet us half way and Alter it.
He trusted, therefore, that his Majesty's Governmentl
would persist in the measures they had announced. He'
would now askorhat did the Hon. Member for Callington
expect from inquiry? He (Mr. Hume) admitted the
distress of the manufacturers, the advantages over
them possessed by their French rivals, and would ad-
mit any thing else required. But he would ask, what
remedy did ' the Honourable Gentleman propose?
Did be want to set up the throwster, and throw the
weavers and other manufactures% who were to the
(browner& salons to one, out of employment. for such
would be the eonsequarie. ? He ,suss propose one of
three things—absolute prohibition, modified restric-
tions, or free trade. Prohibition had been tried, and
failed; and moderate restriction would only go to load
the manufacturer, already trammelled to the extent
of 23 or $0 per cent. (The Honourable Member then
proceeded to contend that in a short time, when the
affairs of India should be arranged, we would be able
to supply the whole European market from our Indian
possessions; and that, therefore, it would be•inspolitic,
in the extreme to set aiiestrimple of exclusion or restric-
tion, and concluded by a brief recapitulation of the
topics of his speech, expressing his hope that the House
would support the views of Government on the subject)
Mr. DAVENPOR 1, notwithstanding the declaration
of the Right Honourable Gentleman who bad spoken
last night, would not be deterred from stating that t: e
parties before the House as petitioners ought to be.
heard. Living as he did within a few miles of the
largest silk manufacturing town in Lancashire, he must
be supposed to know something onlhe subject ; and he
could assure the House that the situation of the people'
engaged in that manufacture was one of deplorable
distress. A great many of the manufactories were per-
fectly still, and the machinery going to decay. The
, distress arising from want of employment was not,
however, confined to those poor people themselves,
forming the great majority of the consumers in the
town; their inability to become purchasers affected, of
course, the dealers io articles of consumption. who
wire, in consequence, in their tin is, incapacitated to pay
tent or taxes. These poor, industrious, well behaved,
well conducted people—(hear)—looked up to Paoli..
Rent for redress, and unless (as had been ably, argued
last night by the Honourable Member for Calliogtoo)
something were dune for their relief, the trade of the
Country must be lost. The throwsters were 'still more
distressed, if possible, than the others, because the»
Machinery was not applicable to any other purpose. •
Mr. FERGUSSON said„ if he thought inquiry could
mitigate the distress of the silk trade, be would wit.,
lingly vote f .r the motion. He did not think Govesaiw
men[ chargeable with having yielded to the political
ecocomists on this queition. He decidedly approved'
of the duty of thirty per cent. It was necessary for the
protection of the immense capital employed in the silk
trade. If the silk trade were properly protected, it
would increase in the same proportion as the cotton
trade had in forty years—namely, by one hundred fold.
He thought the Right Honourable Gentleman's plan
was the best that could be adopted. He thanked the
Right Honourable Gentleman for hii proposed used&
cation of the laws affecting the silk trade of India • it
would be a great benefit to India, to that people whom
we had conquered, and whom we were bound to aid
and encourage, particularly since, by the importation of
our muslin, into India. we had destroyed the Indian
muslin manufacture. Our fellow subjects of India were
not the barbarous slives that some Hon. Members had
described them. As fellow subjects they were entitW
to all the benefits resulting from the system of ha
trade adopted by hogland.
Mr. SADLER, in explanation, defiied that he bad
said the people of British India were slaves; if Om
were slaves the disgrace belonged to the Government
under which they lived. He thought they were the
subjects of the &au •lodia Company, not of the Crocco.
if they were fellaw...,mbjects of the people of England be
was glad they weit'so— if they were riot he hoped they

soon would be so. As to the goopbrofAllare he had iii,
feeling towards them but e rif kin-disett• ..-
• -Mr. FAG USSOAtedpisi 'Mier. of Igtilatitint *owed
lbw doe People or In. wiles s 4th* Cretins of Great Britain.
Mr; EGERTON sal4ftbr utile in Metelerdirkl oad other
'play' were moth dlstriiiied. ',milli:as, dase;veAliquiry. He
ciredially approved tire litotion. '
Mr.P.THOMSON-ezpressed gratitude to the Right
Hon. Gentlenian (Mr. Fitzgerald) for the very able
speech* whiCh'he had delivered on the former evening.
He, however, felt considerable difficulty on the question,-
'for he had not heard one word, with the exceptionof
the speech of the Honourable Mover, that any connec-
tion really existed between the distress at present exist-
ing and the trade of 1826. The Honourable Gentleman,
contrasted the speeches delivered on the preceding
evening in illustration of his assertion. With respect
to the proposed measure of relief, the appointment
of a ComMittee, that would be the very means to
prevent relief; it might be likely to produce a further
stagnation of the trade; such had been the case in
lornser instances, but at this late period of the Session,
no benefit could arise. He should rather say to the
Hon. Gentleman propose your plan, rather-than move
for a Committee of Inquiry ; but in truth he had no plan
to propose.• He admitted.that distress in the silk trade
existed io certain disteicus but it was not general ; he
read an extract from a letter of a manufacturer, which
stated that most of the mills at Manchester were in
work—that he was not afraid of a reduction of the duty
on silk; there was a stagnation not only in the silk trade,
but in other trades, which had arisen in a great measure
from the delay of Ministers in coming to a decision with
respect to taw and thrown silks. The H•rn. Member,
in alluding to one of the causes of the distress, said it
had been cleatly weed by documents upon the table,
that it proceeded from overtrading. Did it not occur to
the Hon. Gentleman, that the silk trade had been
depressed at other periods—in 17F5 and in_lBl6? Did
it not extend to other branches of commerce? Were
not local causes operating to produce the distress?
Was there not a species of book prices which operated
to cause the distress? The question, however, was to
be judged by facts. He would state one—A manu-
facturer of serge, a friend of his, had an order ; he sent
for, two operatives, and asked them woulJ they take
the work. The asked the price; he repl ed, he would
give them 7J. per
yard. The men desired time to con-
sider; they went to their Parliament to consult, and the
result was, they .declined to work. Now, what was the
consequence? His friend got the work done in Essex
for sd. per yard. Bqt how stood matters at Manches-
ter? Why, it was well knowis that the men there
turned our, and were able to support themselves f I
four months, in consequenie of the combination which
existed in that town. The Hon. Gentleman (Mr. P
Thomson) then directed kir attention to the case of the
throwster. .In concurring with the plan of his Right
Honourable Friend, he did so because it was best
exited for the purpose for which it was framed.—
He contended that it Would be a benefit to the throw
ster to relieve him' (torn the duty. The quantity of
now. Silk imported into this country has greatly in-
creased, while the quantity of thrown silk had de-
creased. There had been a constant reduction of duty
ow the litter 'article, therefore the throwster had no case
to stand upon. The great cause of the present distress
was want of capital to purchase raw silk. The throwster
generally applied to the broker for raw silk on credit,
and after throwing it, returns it again to the broker,
who sells it to the manufacturer, and pays the throwster
for his labour. As long as things went on well, there
was no cause of complaint, but when there was a de-
cline in the market the broker hesitated to trust the
throwster, who for want' of capital was obliged to
leave off business. It was a matter of fact. that no
throwster employed his machine in throwing fine silk,
while he could employ it in throwing coarse silk, as
the profit on the latter was more than on the former.
.He maintained that no matetial disadvantage could
possibly arise to the throwster by diminishing the duty
on the importation of fine thrown silk, because the
finest quality could not be thrown in this country. He
thought that if persons of fashion would indulge more
in the wearing of silk, it would give an impetus to the
consionption4, Joel( the
.lady who went to Alusack's
would wear silk, the female Who lived at St. Gileis
would do the same. He could by no means agree with
the Hon. Member for Caliington, that the trade of this
country was on the decline. He would convince the
House. by returns on the table, that there was no foun
dation for such an assertion.
Thu Importation of sugar in 1813 was 3,127.000 cwt.
In 1824 ... 3,876,000 cwt.
In 1826 ... 3,574,000 cwt.
In 1263 .. 3.540,000 cat.
The kaportatloa of moose In 11183 ... 2,742.000 lbs.
In 1824 ... 8,524,000 lbs.
In. 1826 .. 1:1.5511 003 lbs.
• • In 1588 ... 13,272,000 lbs.
The importation or cotton in 1223 was 187,000 lbs.
In 1827 ... 24%000 lbs.
A similar Increase appeared in the importation of Raz.
The insportation of tallow to 1823 was 788.000 cat.

In 152$ ... 1,194000 cwt.
He would ask the Honourable Member if this appeared
like a &cline in trade? There were complaints of dis-
tress in other countries as welt as in this. The state
of the wine trade in France was much lower than that
of the silk trade in England. The only mode w..ereby
this country could rise in ber manufactures, was by a
steady perseverance in the relaxing system, which she
was now pursuing. The best way to promote indutiry
was to let it have its own course.
Mr. F. BUXTON said he bad heard much of politi-
cal economy in the course of this discussion, but he had
beard nothing urged against the appointment of a Com.
mittee, but that it would occasion delay,and delay would
cause a stagnation of trade—that customers would not
give their orders. This objection came with a bad grace
trout the Kish* Hon. Gentleman, who might on the first
day of the Session have moved for a Committee, which
would have bed its report ready before this time. Even
if there had.beetisonse delay, its disadvantages would be
compensated by the benefits that would have, resulted,
from foluiry. After objecting to the partial views
taken by some Hon. Members, of the state of the trade
at particular periods.' for the purpose of making out
their own peopositioos. the Has. Gentleman went on 'o
show that the trade of the tbrowsms was in a state of
decline. In proof of this be read an extract of a letter
from a Gentleman whose opinion on this subject, be
observed, was entitled to more weight than that of
any Other man in Englaod. He alluded to Mr. Ber-
nard Royd, of Manchester. The extract stated, that
they bad written
.to the Right Honoufable V. Fitz-
gerald, stating the advantages enjoyed by the Italian
throwster over the throester in England, and they
begged to be allowed to trite themselves and their
machinery out of the country. To this letter they
did not expect an answer, nor did they complain of it ;
but still they thought it too , had to destroy a man's
trade, and not allow him to take himself and his tools
to another country, where he might carry'oo his trade
with advantage. 'The Honourable Member (M. P.
Tbonsson) bad said that the distress of the trade
was bight: coloured, and that there was as much felt
before in the trade as at present. That might be, but,

the distress felt at the time of the meeting at the Mao
sio shows., in 1816, was temporary—it seat ff in the
following spring; but the present distress began in the
autumn, continued through the wines, and there."
now no chance of its being removed in the spnal.
He wished he could say that the distress was overrated,
but unfortonstely there were.now. thousands in the
trade in a state bordering oa starvation, from which
they were preset red by the liberality of the public and
theformation of soup societies. When-he 'kuei or that
distress, which was greater than could be conceived by
those who had not witnessed it, he should suppott the
motien for a Committee; he sbould,support that nia
tion even for the sake of the Government itself, to show
thatit was not the cause of the distress. It was said
the system proposed by Government would put an end
to smuggling, and would create an export trade; big
had it done cater? He apprehended it would be lon td
that it had nor. If the superiority of our machine?).
could compensate fur our disadvintaees in other q.l
spects, it would be something; but the costs of therm,
material and the price of labour were slut us
had to compete with. How could we Compels
with the French in the former when they pe.
duced that m aerial; or how could we compete win
dem in the price of labour, with the he4•y press seed
taxes, and the high prices of every article of CaitiValp.
lion in this country? Under all the cireumstances, hr
should vote for she Committee. because as inquiry wag
but an act of justice to all parties.
Mr. C. GR A /,IT, alter eulogising the general conduct
of the Petitioners. and expressing his sympathy in their
distress, said he should confine himself to a consider..
tiros of the single point, as to whether a Commune
ought or ought not to be misprinted ? He denied that it
was possible to return to the general restrictive system,
and contended that there a as no ground for attributing
the distress of this pat tic ular branch of trade to the system
which had beers adopted by his Right Hon. Friend... I
file Right Hon Gentleman then went into a statemett of
the imports since the new law, -and justified an asset.
tine which he had foinie. ly made, that the trade of *
throwster bad been crested in this country by it, aid
that it had given rise t . the most important improve.
ments iu machinery. There was thetefote no ground for
the argument that a Corn Littee could possibly proveany
connection between the present distress and the system
of his Right Honourable Friend. He felt surprise and
the deepest regret that those who now suffered should
be led info ally such delu ion as to suppose that they .
could find relief in returning to the restrictive laws...
their digress was attr•but d to the ed.rrissi..o of ilteiga
manufactures under the new law; but %%hen. in the
years 1816 ni.d 1817. 40,000 persons acre thsovin nut
of employ in S,•italfields. and 40.0001. was subsciaied
by the public for their relief, the cause was then said to
be the inundation of the country with the silks of
France. H then was the present distress to be ie.
lieved by a return to a*state ssi things under which as
equsl distress was seen to have exited? If they found
the general industry of the country lahnuring.onder ow
common distress and difficulty, he could not see wby
that was a reason for appointing a Committee to inquire
into the causes of depression in the silk trade. If thee
no ground has been put f.rward upon which a Conn
mittee could do good, they were bunnd to look at the
effect which the app• intment of a Committee would
have in aggravating the distress of those who asked f r
it. For these reasons he could not consent to give. a
silent vote sgainst the motion.
Mr. RANKES had no intention to follow the Hon.
Member through the wliole of his speech ; the Host.
Member seemed to deny the state of distress that es.
isted ; it would almost seem that he thought the trade
was in a floutishing state, but the facts proved the din
tress; and when any branch of trade or manu'actures
were in depression and difficulties. the House always
thought proper to appoint a Committee r f Inquiry. It
cannot be denied but that within these few years the Silk
Trade bad met with unexampled distress; but then it
was said it was owing to the improvident extension of
manufactures—instances were given of the great in.
crease of mills, looms, Ice. Why, if thid was the case,
surely. that al •ne was. g fit subject tor inquiry—(Hear,
hear)—and a Committee ought to •be appointed.
All he aske3 for was. inquiry. and it was not do
corous in the House to shut its ears against the
universal cries of distress—(Hear, he r) But an inquiry
ought to be Instituted to ascertain It tae present system was she
cause of It. He saw the present feeling of the House was In favour
of the Right Hatintrable Gentleman's policy. He sincerely trusted
k might turn out for the good of tbe.eonotry ; but he did not disk
that it should be taken for granted that that system was right. sad
all who differed front it wrong—(Hear, bear). He thought the
principles of free trade the way of making a great country late a
small one---(Hear. hear). He was afraid free • trade would be
pushed to an extent that must bring general ruin on the comm.
A favourite argument was, that other nations would follow es
—ibis bad not been the case, but then is was said—" Ohs the
experiment has nut been fairly tried." He thought the liable
were pretty well saddled that the country was ruined. and Gus
forbid the experiment should be further pushed. Was it not minim
to..walk the streets, and see the starving spectres, in the sloped
meow that were every moment to be met with. H. did notions
to say by voting for a Committee of Inquiry be should recommend
if it was appointed to return to the old system, but merely fortis
purposes of inquiry. The Hon. Member here went into a lose
statement of the capons and Imports of silk bit the last few years.
He denied that appointing a Committee would have the effect of
increasing the present distress. The experimental measures omit
not to be carried to a greater length without inquiry. lie Amid
'tappet t the motion, and sincerely hoped Hon. Members would est
oppose it, whatever they might think of the present sperm. Sank
they would not say, knowing as they did the distress which 'AMA
that there should be DO inquiry.
Mr. Alderman WA ITH MAN said, at the lateness of die beat
he would not trespass long upon the attention of the. House. nos
knottry; under a free trade, never could compete with Freon—
no arguments that he had beard in favour of it were in hie "leis
satisfactory. All that they amounted to was that there was as
over production; but no 'Hon. Member had given statement of
the imports bond& country of foreign silk within these hot kw
years • if they had, it would have bees found to have greatly Is.
creased. They were told that it would increase our internam
with other countries, but the experiment had now been tried lee
several years,and he did net know where to look for a desk edam-
tap that bad has obtained. France has Imported within these dime
years Into thin country 1.200.0001. of fancy goods and articles tif
luxury.and had only taken beck plain goods to 400.000 L This meaty
was different to most others ; it was a manufactories country, ml
ought as am* as possible to import the raw material, and ewe
the masolosturod goods. He knew much had been said and written
on heti dine et the "nylon. He had read some of them, aptil be
was se bengliered that be hardly koew any thing abouesis 1011WIF
at had been that some of the new machinery, abut '
so muck had lon said* was feted Mt to answer se well
old. There were many renew to account for the incensed oleo
suespdoe et the raw asatorial—it was In the 'master:tun at WM
goods;, it 'should. however, be recollected that there was NW
700,0001. worth same of raw silk on band than at this time MI
year. Meth./ reason of increase was, that silk had become a mese
general snide of wear, .therefore the costae weavers at C
and other places badtC .therefore
IllaiS hands to silk manufactureYV
present eyeteeth* must denounce as impolitic and unjust, sad. It
t etiin a few years longer, would rein the trade shogsthee-
dotiedd be considered that the silk theorems outplayed 100,000
men, woonen,.and children; and if these measures were persisted
in. they must room to some other country, sad then. he wesM
ask, what was to biome of the population? The Hun. Member
here went into many particulars of the distress which new per-
vaded the manufacturing districts, and concluded by urge oaths
House the Aswissky of appointing a Committee. media
would have Ids hearty support.
Mr. COURTRNAY Opposed golne.lnto a Committee, became
be did not see any geed which could be done by it. It apitested
that few Membeenhit soy desire to return to the old systems sod
the only question 'ditch a Committee could-settle. was the mood
of the protecting duty. Now the duty already established was mf•

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