Star.
London, England, 1821-06-09 00:00:00

COMMUNICATION FROM THE DIME OF CLAREVCE.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved the
Order of the Day for the House to resolve itself into
a Committee on the Commuhication sent down by
his Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence. He ob-
served, that in submitting this motion to the House,
it would be necessary for him to call the attention of
Honourable Members to the vote ot Supply to the
Royal Dukes in the year 1818, which rose out of 1
Message from his Majesty. At that time, the Dukes
of Cambridge and Clarence were on the pint of get-
ting married, and it was found necessary to make
suitable pi °vision for them ; as also for the Duke of
Kent, who, two months afterwards, had changed hi
condition.
.Upon that occa jon it became his (the
Marquis of Londonderry's) duty to propose a mote
enlarged scale of provision than had pi eviousl hen
established.—Here the Noble Marquis was reminded,
that the question had not been put for the Speaker
to leave the Chair, and it being accordingly put in
the usual manner,
Mr. MONCK rose and said, he wished to impress
upon the House the expediency of resisting any fur-
ther grant to the Must, hors Duke. He wished tore-
mind them of the statement made on a pievions
night by the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor
,of the Exchequer, that the country was not in ash
tuition to comply with the demands of the Amet icao
Loyalists, although he could not deny that they were
Ibunded hi justice. It, therefore, we Louid not afford
to pay our just debts, lie did not think that the House
might still to agree to an act which was not one of
justice, hut of mete grace and favour—t Hear, hear).
Besides, the present was a most unseasonable timeto
urge the claims. It was during the Administration
of Mr. Fox that the 1:6000 had been added to the
£12,000 a-year, before settled as the provision for the
junior branches of the Royal Family. This had been
done expressly on account of the inctease which had
taken place on all the at titles of lite ; but now that
the improved state of our currency brought things
to their former level, he saw no reason for any aug-
mentation. There was another objection that related
to the Prince himself, which ought to be duly come
dered. It seemed that we lived in a censorious tvorld,
and people were disposed to view the faults and frail-
ties of Princes, however exalted, with a mictoscopiu
eye, Ile would put it to the House, whether, con-
sidering the marked and decided conduct of :he Royal
Duke during a late trial, coupled with the motion
now before the House, the Public might not be
duccd to impute motives to him not in accordance
with that high duty, which there could be no il.,abt
he was anxious to discharge, 6:it with his own Per'
sonal interest—(Cheer:).—He (Mr. Monck) should
certainly oppose the motion for the Right Howse.
able Gentleman's leaving the Chair.
The question was then i.ut, and the motion being
agreed to, the House resolved itself into a Comiertet.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said,
wocl.l
make no reply to the speech ot the Hou. GentleaLur
who had just sat down, but would leave a to he
treated by the House with the neglect it destsrvel Be
wished now to recal the attention of Hon. Members to
that which was the real question b..fere the !loose;
and before he did so, lie must obset ye, that the al-
lowance made for the Royal Dukes at the period ad-
verted to by the Hon. Genial:man, contemplated their
unmat vied, and not their married state. lu the year
ISIS, the House, though not agreeing to the proPO

..-Mks:..

rition for placing the Duke of Clarence on a distinct
tcoting from the junior branches of the Royal Family,
still evinced every disposition to meet the wishes of
the Crown ; and a Right Honourable Gentleman
whom be did not then see in his place (Mr. Tierney),
was particularly anxious that a suitable -provision
should be made for the Illustrious Parties. The sum
of £6OOO a-year, which had been proposed, was not
objected to by the Duke of Clarence as a jointure for
his consort, though, from the circumstances in which
be was placed, he declined accepting it himself. The
loyal Duke had intended to go to the Continent,
where he might live in a more economical manner
than in this country ; but after he had I een there for
some time, he was obliged to return to England, find-
ing that change of air was necessary to the health of
the Duchess. If it had pleased PROVIDENCE to pre-
serve the infant child of the Duke of Clarence, he
(the Marquis of Londonderry) would have felt him-
self called uporr to bring the question of a more li-
beral provision again before the House; but that not
being the case, he contented himself with bringing,
under their consideration the change that had taken
place in the circumstances of his Royal highness, and
his object •snas, that he might be irlaced on the same
footing with the other branches of the Royal Family,
who had accepted the grant in 1818, by getting the
arrears since that period—(Hear, hear).—He was
•quite sure time could be !slit one fCeling on both
sides of the Howe, with respect to the propriety of
placing the Illustrious Duke at least on a level, in
point of income, with his younger brothers, if a
larger provision was not to be made fcr him. The
Duke of Clarence was next in succession to the
Throne so the Duke of York, and he, therefore, stood
in a more prerninent relation than any of the junior
branches. The object of the present motion was to
give effect to the provision of IblB, but without as-
signing to the Illusuious Individual more than had
been settled on the Duke of Cambridge or the Duke
Kent, at the time of their marriage. On the part of
the Duke of Clarence, he must say, that the country
souls not spew any man who was a more perfect ex-
ample of domestic propriety than his Royal High-
ness. The Noble Marquis concluded by moving—
" That a sum not exceeding 4:6000 a-year be charged
on the Consolidated Fund, as a suitable provision for
his Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence, com-
mencing ham the sth of At nil, 1818."
Mr. HUNIE submitted to the Noble Marquis, whe-
ther it would not be proper that he should divide his
propositions, as they embraced two distinct points?
The [louse might agree to the grant, though not to
the arrears. Before he proceeded farther he wished
to ask the Nhble Marquis, if he was disposed to take
the .rant of £6,000 a•-year now, and afterwards
move for the arrears by a separate vote.?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY objected to do
so; it would destroy the effect of his proposition.
Mr. lICNIE, finding that the Noble Marquis was
unwilling to acquiesce, could not possibly agree to
the motion in its present form. He thought the No-
ble Marquis was bound to give some satisfactory an-
swer to the question he had put to him on a former
night, respecting the property of the late King. It
seemed that all that was now sought was to place
the Duke of Clarence on the same footing with his
younger brothers. He (Mr. Hume) was very willing
to do so. In consequence of the addition of A:6,000,
to 1.:18,000 a-year previously enjoyed by the Dukes
of Cumberland, Cambridge, and Kent, their incomes
were made t'o amount to 1:24,000, but it required
only £3,500 a-year to place the Duke of Clarence on
the same footing with them. It would be seen that
there ss as a Bill providing a Civil List to the amount
of £850,000 a-year, besides allowances for the ju-
nior branches of the Royal Family ; and there was a
thati.e for- the Duke of Clarence of £2,500 a-year
upon the Consolidated Fund above the amount of in-
come possessed by any of his younger brothers. He,
maintained that they would not do their duty to the
Public if they allowed another shilling to be given
in addition to the £3,500 a-year, which would make
up the deficiency. When the Queen had magnani-
mously refused to accept £15,000 a-year, was any
proposal made by the Noble Lord to make good the
arrears ? Certainly not. He (Mr. Hume) would un-
doubtedly have submitted a motion to that effect had
not her Majesty been so ill advised as to refuse the
money. While they were thus deliberating on the
income of the Duke of Clarence, it would be well if
they did not forget other branches of the Royal
Family, who stood in close relation to the Crown.
W. it be believed that at this moment the daugh-
ter of the Duke of Kent, who to all intents and pur-
poses was the child of the nation, owed her support
to an individual ever since the decease of her illus-
trious father? It ought to be borne in mind, that
the legitimate child of the Duke of Kent did not re-
ceive a farthing from the State, while the illegiti-
mate children o the Duke of Clarence cost the peo:
ple £2,500 a-year—(Hear). It was not enough for
the House to hear that the brother of the Duchess of
Kent had undertaken the support of her child ; the
country ought to see that the child in question was
amply provided for. He entirely agreed in what
had been stated by his Honourable Friend as to the
public conduct of the Duke cf Clarence on a late oc-
casion; and he thought that such conduct was very
little calculated to increase that respect which the
Public seemed disposed to pay to the Royal Family.
lie would ask any man, however he might commend
the private character of his Royal Highness, to say
whether the part he took in the late trial was not
most indelicate and reprehensible ?—(Hear, hear,
from the Ministerial benches).—Gentlemen
,might
cheer ; but he would fearlessly repeat the assertion,
and would tell the Noble Lord and his colleagues,
that the same delicacy which made the Duke of Sus-
sex and all the other junior branches of the Royal
Family absent themselves, when their near relation
was pot triton her trial, and had almost her very life
at issue, would have been much more becoming in
the Duke of Clarence than the zeal he evinced against
her(Cireers).—lle should certainly take the sense of
the House upon the motion, even if lie stood alone,
or had only the support of his Hon. Friend (Mr.
Monet:). In the case of the Queen the money had
been refured from a liberal feeling ; whereat, in the
case of the Duke of Clarence, it batmen refused in
a spirit of petulance. He thought the time was now
tome when the property of his late Majesty ought
to be inquired into. It was currently reported that
his Majesty had made a will, which was kept con-
cealed; it that was the case, and that the will was
40t according to law, thstp his property fell to the

Public. By the statute of Anne, no Sovereign could
alienate his property ; but, by the 39th and 40th of
George HI. a King was at liberty to bequeath manors
and lands by will. Now there was a report that the
late King had actually made a will, and if so, the
merits of it ought to be publicly known. It was pos-
able that he might have died rich enough to super-
sede the necessity of appealing to the liberality of the
Public in the present instance. Supposing he might
'have left £1,000,000 sterling; that sum, if divided
among his five sons, would give each of them
1200,000. He could not but reprobate the secret,
mysterious manner in which this will was kept con-
cealed—(!fear, hear).—lf any portion of the late
King's property was devised to the Duke of Clarence,
and then if something more was wanted to put him
in a situation to support his dignity suitably, he, tor
one, would be ready to grant it ; but the will ought
to be produced. For instance, if thirty Or £40,000
had been devised by it to the Duke of Cambridge,
was it fair to keep him ignorant of the fact—was it
just to keep the money from him ? If no will had
been made, let Ministers come forward and state it
to be so, and explain if the provisions of the laws in
that case had been complied with, as well as what
had been done with the money that had been con-
veyed, by several Acts, to Count Munster and others.
The House was bound to inquire what the extent of
the devised property was, and where it now remained.
If the Noble Lord did not give a satisfactory ex-
planation on that head, he should conceive that a
grant of £3,500 a-year to the Duke of Clarence, in
addition to the income he already enjoyed, would
be quite sufficient—( Hear)—and he therefore con-
cluded with moving an Amendment, reducing the
amount of the original proposition to the sum he had
just stated —( Hear, hear).
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY thought he
had reason to complain of the course pursued by the
Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down, be-
cause in opening his proposition to the House, he
(the Marquis of Londonderry) did not recollect that
he had stated anything calculated to provoke the
personal mode of argument which the Honourable
Gentleman had emeloyed—(Hear, hear).—Though,
undoubtedly, it was the privilege of any Honourable
Member to make such observations as he thought fit,
yet he must say, that in this instance that privilege
was not very discreetly exercised—(Hear, hear),---nor
was it even to the advantage of the party of whom
the Honourable Gentleman appeared to be the cham-
pion—(Hear, hear).—lndeed, the line of argument
which the Honourable Gentleman had used was sel-
dom, he might say, in his experience, ever useful to
the object which it was meant to serve--(He" hear).
The £2,500 of which the Honourable Gentleman
had spoken so much, had been granted to the Duke
of Clarence at an early period of his life, in order to
place him on an equal footing with those of his Royal
Brothers who were in the enjoyment of professional
incomes; and when the provisions were made for the
Princes by Parliament, those professional incomes
were not noticed, as with respect to such of them as
possessed these; nor was this sum of £2,500 noticed,
as with respect to his Royal Highness the Duke of
Clarence. fie was the only one of his Royal Brothers
who had not a professional income; and this equiva-
lent for one was small, when placed in comparison
with that of the Duke of Kent, who derived from
the Government of Gibraltar £7,000 a-year, and en-
joyed this in addition to the £lB,OOO a-year settled
on him by Parliament, in common with his-Royal
Brothers. This spirit of appearing as a champion
for one branch of the Royal Family could not, there-
fore, he conceived, lead to results which would be at
all useful to the party intended to be served—( Hear,
hear).—Another benevolent observation of the Ho-
nourable Gentleman was with respect to her Majesty,
and he argued that she had just the same right to
claim the difference between £55,000 and £30,000
a-year from the time that she first refused the addi-
tion, to the moment in which her circumstances were
altered. Upon that he had only to say, that the cases
were quite different. He only asked the House to
put the Duke of Clarence in the same situation in
which he had been originally placed; and there was
nothing in the observations of the Honourable Gentle-
man, on this part of the subject, which would in-
duce the House to dissent from the first proposition.
The Honourable Gentleman wished to persuade tht
House that this grant was not necessary, because
there were other funds, he said, in existence, of great
magnitude, on which the Duke of Clarence might
have a claim—namely, the personal property of his
late Majesty. He did not think that the House would
compel him now to go into detail upon that subject.
There was every disposition on the part of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers to give the fullest information with
respect to the property of his late Majesty, on a pro-
per occasion ; and he believed it probable that he
might shortly be authorized to submit a proposition
to the House connected with it. When that occasion
would arrive, he should be prepared to go into the
fullest explanation, and it would spew that the state-
merits of the Honourable Gentleman and others, of
the existence of balances amounting to a million or
more were nothing but pure inventions (Hear, hear).
He believed he could state, that the money property
left by the late King did not exceed £80,000; and
that was subject to so many claims on the liberality
of his Majesty, that only a small portion of it could
be applicable at the discretion of the King. With re-
gard to the real estate of his late Majesty, as the will.
which was left was not cohsidered by the competent
Law Authorities as regularly executed, the property
which came under that description descended to his
present Majesty, jure Coronet, and administration of
it had been made by the proper Constitutional Offi-
cer, so that not one sixpence either of the personal or
real property was applicable to the wants of the Duke
of Clarence—(Hear, hear, hear).—The House and the
Country would now know that all those supposed
accumulations, which malice had exaggerated to so
enormous an amount, as having been made by his
late Majesty, were perfect fictions—(Hear, hear).—
Equall y false were the statements 'that the late Queen
had made a great purse in this country for her Con-
tinental relatives—(Hear).—The fact was, that when
her late Majesty died, she hardly left assets to cover
bee debts--(Citeers).—Her extensive charities had
been found to exhaust the accidental accumula-
tions of a long reign—(Hear, hear).—It would now
be for the liberality of Parliament to consider whether
they would make the same provision for the Duke of
Clarence, which was made for his Royal Brothers
under the -same circunistances—(Hear, hear)—anti

,the Englishmen were few, he believed, who wonld'
wieh-to see their Representatives proceed upon other
considerations, to make any deviation on this occa-
sion, from the general spirit and liberality of Parlia-
ment—( Hear, hear).
A MEMBER, whose name could not be learnt,
de-
fended the character of the Duke *of Clarence from
some remarks that had been made in the course 'of
the debate. He said that hi, Royal Highness could
justify his conduct in another place, if it was neces-
sary to do so, and that he was exemplary in the dis-
charge of all the duties of domestic life—(Near).—
The Honourable Member for Aberdeen ought also
to have remembered that his Royal Highness was
eminently distinguished in a Charity with which that
Honourable Member was connected, and that he was
ever anxious to promote the liberal Arts and Sciences.
Mr. HUME denied that he had made any attack
on the private character of the Duke of Clarence.
He agreed that his Royal Highness ought to be placed
on the same footing, in point of income, with his
younger brothers; but he knew of nothing in the
public conduct of that Royal Duke which should
entitle him to a higher income than they enjoyed.
With respect to professional allowances, he disdained
to touch them; and he thought he had reason to
complain, that whenever individuals in this House
fe t it their duty to oppose grants of this sort, they
should be exposed to attacks such as the Noble Mar-
quis had made upon him—attacks which, he would
take leave to say, did not at all mend the matter.
In his opinion, any man who voted a larger income
to the Duke of Clarence than 1.:24,000 on the whole,
would not duly perform the trust reposed in him.
Mr. UUSKISSON stated that when the small
grant had been originally made, it did nor exceed
1:1000. It was afterwards raised to £2500 ; and when
an addition of 1:601K) Has made to his Royal High-
ness's income in 1806, by Lord Grenville's Adminis-
tration, the Royal Duke still enjoyed the £2500, and
so continued to do in 1818, when the increased al-
lowance on his proposed marriage was granted.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS said that the Noble Lord,
when he said that the Duke of Clarence was the only
one of the Royal brothers who had no professional
income, must have forgotten the fact that the Duke of
Sussex had no professional income. He was the only
member of the Royal Family who had not an addi-
tional resource of that description. There was no
branch of the Royal Family that had better supported
the character of an English Gentleman than the Duke
of Sussex.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said he had
never once mentioned the name of his Royal High-
ness the Duke of Sussex. What he had observed,
or, at least, meant to argue, was, that Parliament
made provisions for the Royal Dukes, without looking
to their professional incomes.
Mr. W. SMITH did not wish to enter into the pri-
vate characters of the Royal Princes. He thought,
however, he had reason to complain of the tone as•
sumed by the Noble Lord. He had no hesitation in
saying that, in his opinion, the House would do right
in granting £6OOO a-year to the Duke of Clarence,
and Would do wrong in granting one shilling of the
arrears. With respect to the estate of the late King,
he was ready to believe the statement of the Noble
Marquis, so far as it went. But he should like very
much .to Kaye known a little more of the real estate
of kis late Majesty, which the present King came to
the enjoyment of jure corona. Suppose that real
estate had amounted to two or three hundred thou-
sand a-year— _ _

Mr. HUSKISSON begged pardon of the Hon.
Member for interrupting him, but he thought it might
save much of the time of the House if he stated that,
in consequence of his late Majesty's will not being
deemed a valid instrument, the real estate descended
to his present Majesty jure corona. It therefore
formed a part of the Royal demesnes, in the nature
of ancient demesnes, which were surrendered by the
Crown to the Public, in exchange for a fixea Civil List.
—The adn 111 l i tration of the property thus devolved
upon the Commissioner of Woods and Forests, who
applied it to the purposes of the Public ; and, in tact,
it formed a part of the Consolidated Fund—(Hear).
He wished sincerely he could state to the Hou,e that
it amounted, as the Hon. Gentleman had supposed,
to L 200,000 or £300,000 a-year, as it would tend
considerably to alleviate the public burthens ; but he
feared that, if the real estate of his late Majesty were
sold by auction, it would not realize upwards of
£2o,ooo—(clear, hear).
Mr. W. SMITH was extremely glad that this ex-
planation had been given. He concluded with ex-
pressing his intention to refuse the arrears.
The -Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that it
was only within the last ten days that the opinion of
the competent Law Authorities, as to the invalidity
of his Majesty's Will, was had.
Mr. BRIGHT conceived, that since the Duke of
Clarence enjoyed £2500 as a sort of compensation
for the professional incomes which his other Royal
Brothers enjoyed, the addition of the £3500 proposed
by the lion. Member for Aberdeen, was a sufficient
sum to be added to the Parliamentary allowance he
already possessed. With respect to the arrears, he
was not disposed to grant them, as his Royal High-
ness had in the first instance refused that grant which
Parliament had thought fit to give.
Mr. TIERNEY conceived, that in voting for the
first proposition, he would do no more than place the
Duke of Clarence in the same situation in which he
would have been if he had received this grant from
the first—(Hear, hear).—He thought, indeed, that
the Duke of Clarence had been very ill-advised when
he had resolved, in the first instance, to refuse it ; for
he quite agreed that the Princes of the Blood Royal
were entitled to nothing, and they ought to take what-
ever Parliament granted to thetn—(Hear).—When
the Duke of Clarence did refuse this grant, it was the
general opinion that he would not fulfil the proposed
marriage; but both his Royal Highness and his Du-
chess did go to the full length of the previous ar-
rangements, under circumstances which were highly
honourable to both the parties,_ because it was the
first Royal marriage that was concluded without a
view to an increase of income—(Hear, hcar).—From
that day to this, he confessed he had constantly ex-
pected that the Noble Lord would have come down
to the House with this proposition; and he believed that
there was no considerable portion of the Public who did
not think that, in agreeing to the proposition now, they
were doing no more than what justice required (Hear).
It should be borne in mind, that the grant which was
first proposed for his Royal Highness was £10,000;

mrate lesser sum of £5,000 was proposed by the Ha
inourable Member for Surrey; and he (Mr. Tierney)
agreed to it. Having thus exercised a discretion en
that occasion, he did not see how he could run away
from the vote he then gave—(Hear, hear).—He held
himself committed to it. As to the arrears, a sha-
dow, but only a shadow, of an argument, might per.
haps be raised ssith respect to them. He could pot
but think that they ought to be given. For himself,
he had no motive but the performance of his duty.
It wa, a long time since he had been in the habits of
acquaintance with that Royal Duke; but he consi-
dered as well deserving of attention, that his Royal
Highness, since his marriage, discharged the duties
of a husband in the most meritorious manner—
(Hear, hear).—All that, in fact, was now asked of
the House was to forget what had passed, aid to
agree to the proposition of the Noble Lord. As to
the Duke of Sussex, whose name had been mentioned,
if, on a fit opportunity, an addition to his income was
proposed, there was no man in the House who would
vote for it more willingly than himself.
Mr. FORBES still thought the refusal of the grant
to the Duke of Cumberland on a former occasion un-
just. He thought, also, that when the Noble Lord
came down to-night to propose the renewal of the
grant to the Duke of Clarence, he should have been,
at the same time, prepared to propose a provision for
the Duke and Duchess of Kent's daughter. At this
moment the young Princess of Kent was supported
by the charity of the Prince Leopold. He might be
told that Prince Leopold was very well able to afford
;her support out of his income—(Hear, hear)—but if
that income was considered too large, was this the
most proper or regular way of reducing it? He con-
tended that a separate provision ought to he made
for this young Princess ; and he said that he must
refuse his assent to the proposition of the Noble Lord
on the ground that no additional provision was pro-
posed for the Duke of Cumberland. If, however, the
Noble Lord's proposition should be carried, as he sup-
posed it would be, he would then vote against giving
the arrears to the Duke of Clarence. For, in his opi-
nion, her present Majesty upon the same grounds,
might claim the difference between £35,000 and
£50,000, from the date of the separate settlement
made upon her as Princess of Wales. In conclusion
the Ilonourable Member observed, that his observa-
tions were dictated by a conscious feeling of duty,
and by his respect for the Royal Family. The Scotch
were possessed of as much loyal feeling as any other
portion of British subjects ; and he could assure the
Noble Marquis that his own feelings on this and all
occasions were as loyal as those of any Englishman
or Irishman in that House or out of it,
Sir J. YORKE said, that he would not consent to
the present vote if he thought it would pledge him
to the grant of any arrears. He had come down to
the House prepared to support the motion of the
Noble Marquis for the grant of £6,000 a-year to his
Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence; but he had
no notion of granting any arrears. His Royal High-
ness had before declined the grant; and the House
acting upon his ret usal, had not passed any Act for
giving the proposed sum. That certainly was no
reason why it might not be voted at present, but he
thought it was a reason why arrears should not be
given—( Hear, hear).—He was. reminded on this
occasion of an old proverb, and he thought it would
not be amiss to act upon it : • • ••
" fie that will not when he may,
" When he will, he shall have nay !"
( Hear, and laughter ).—He. saw no reason why, on
account of the death of the young Princess of Cla-
rence, the name of another young Pi incess with a
hard name, the Princess Vittoria or Victorine, should
be introduced. Before any arguments founded upon
that subject should be brought forward, they ought
to give his Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence
time to try his hand again !—(Hear, and laughter).
He might have another Victorine, or Princess Eliza.
beth, or young Prince George. They should wait at
least for another twelvemonth, and see what might
be the 'result, as neither the Duke nor Duchess of
Clarence was yet too old for procreation !—(Hear,
and laughter).
Mr. HARBORD said, that it having been thought
right to vote £6OOO a-year to his Royal Highness the
Duke of Clarence in 1818, he did not see why it
should be now refused. But the question was different
with respect to the arrears ; and therefore he for one
would not consent to that part of the proposition. It
was his intention, therefore, to move, as an Amend-
ment upon the Motion of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume),
that the sum of £6OOO be granted without the arrears ;
and, until some good reason were given, he would
persist in that Amendment.
Lord MILTON said, he would vote for the sum
proposed by the Noble Marquis ; but he would also
vote for the Amendment of his Hon. Friend near him,
refusing the arrears, because he did not see to what
consequences such a precedent would lead. It ap-
peared to him also, that, on account of the altered
state of the currency, it would be the duty of Parlia-
ment to revise, at some future period, all the grants
made to the Royal Family.
Sir ROBERT WILSON thought it would be
below the dignity of this House to take advantage of
the refusal of his Royal Highness to receive this
grant originally. The same argument applied to the
arrears also.

Sir F. BLAKE gave the original proposition his
most unqualified support.
Mr. BROUGHAM said l►e would not detain the
House for any time. lie only wished to make one
or two observations for the purpose of correcting a
mistake which had crept into the debate. When he-
heard it stated that the sum of £2,500 was formerly
voted to the Duke of Clarence, to make up for the
absence of any professional income, and to put him
on a level with the other Royal brothers, it was but
proper to mention that that was a mistake. There
was another brother who was placed. in the same situ-
ation. The Duke of Sussex had never any command,
or regiment, or any other professional income what-
ever. He wished, however, the House to understand,
that he did not make that remark for any other pur-
pose than to do justice to the Duke of Sussex. He
believed that Royal Duke would be the last person
to come down to that House to make any such claim.
—He was certain no such idea had ever entered into
his mind, and equally certain was.he that the Duke
of Sussex had large outgoings, which his other
brothers had not. His economy, however, and retired
manner of life, enabled him to pay off a great portion
of those demands to which he had subjected himself ;

and his management, prudence, and notions of justice,
did great credit to his heart and feelings—( Hear).—
With respect to the arrears of the grant to the Duke
of Clarence, they stood on peculiar grounds, quite
distinct from the grant itself. If, in 1818, the House
thought proper to vote him a grant of £6OOO, and he
then thought proper to refuse, but came now, after
three years, and signified his acceptance of that sum,
it was his (Mr; Brougham's) opinion that the sum
should be taken now as it was tendered then. It was
said that the withholding the arrears would he taking
the Royal Duke on his word ; and the gallant Officer
opposite (Sir Joseph Yorke) had recourse, for an illus-
tration, to an old proverb—
.. He that will not, when he may,
" When he Will, he shall have nay !"
Ile (Mr. Brougham) would not enforce the rigorous
application of the saying, because that would operate,
against the whole grant. All that could be fairly
expected of the House would be to put his Royal
Highness in the same state in which he was when he
refused his acceptance of the vote of the House. For
these reasons he would vote for the grant from the
present.time. The House, he thought, had reason
to complain of the manner in which the grant was
proposed. There was no communication from the
Crown on this subject, either during the present or
former Session, and the House were left in ignorance,
whether the Crown desired such a grant at all. The
proposal certainly came through the Minister, but there
ought to be a direct communication from the Crown.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, the com-
nl:nicarion from the Crown was signified in the Mes-
sage which was sent down. There was no necessity
for a new communication; and when the grant was
raised in 1814, for the present Queen, then Princess of
Wales, there was no new Message sent to the House.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that what he complained
of was, that they had not any clear communication
with respect to this vote. The Noble Marquis stated,
that when the grant was raised to the Princess ofl
Wales, there was no communication. He (Mr.
1
Brougham) was not the in the .House, and if he'
had been, he would have made an objection to the'
mode of proposing that grant. He had, however,',
understood that it originated from the House itself,
and from a Member on his side of the House.

The Marquis .of LONDONDERRY said, it did
not originate with the House, or any Member of it.
There was an intimation from the Crown, but subject
to any regulation or modification which the House
might think proper to make.
Mr. IIUME, amidst loud cries of " Question!"
said, that in proposing his Amendment, he did not
think himself bound by the former vote of-the House,
not being present when that vote was agreed to.—
Flom what he had. learned, however, during the dis-
cussion, he was unwilling to persevere in his Amend-
ment, and begged leave to withdraw it, and suffer the
Amendment of his Hon. Friend to go to a decision.
The Committee then divided on Mr. atilltOßlA
Amendment. The numbers were,
For the Resolution
For the Amendment

Majority
THE TURKISH EMPIRE.

Oa themotion for going into a CommitteeolSupply,
Mr. lt. BERNAL wished to know whether any
serious disturbances had taken place in Constanti-
nople and Pera ? and if so, -whether anything had
been done to protect British subjects?
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, disturb-
ances of a very serious kind, and circumstances of a
very painful nature, had taken place; but our Am-
bassador, in conjunction with other Powers, had taken
every precaution to protect Europeans; the Admi-
ralty had also sent out directions to protect our trade
in the Archipelago. &ill he was scary to say that
circumstances of a painful nature had taken place.
GENERAL DESFOURNEAUX.

The House then went into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. IRVING moved, that a sum of I:20,000 be
paid to General De,fourneatix, for losses sustained at
the capture of Gliadaloupe, in 17%.
Mr. W. SNIITH wished to know whether sufficient
application had been made since 1794,? -If so he
would cheerfully vote for this claim.
1V r. IRVING said, that in the early part of the
Revolution of France, it would have been impossible
to have made application; but since that time every
application had been made.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT objected to this vote,
because no notice had been given that the claim
would he brought forward that day.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
the last time the Committee of Supply sat, this • vote
was in the hands of the Chairman, when the Com-
mittee was postponed. No difficulty had been found
to ascertain thatthis Officer had been of much service
to the British residents. But it was more difficult to
ascertain the real amount of his losses ; in cousequence
of which it was referred to a Committee, which re-
ported that the sum proposed should be granted.
Mr. WARRE did not understand what important
services this person had performed.
Mr. IRVING said, the losses Lad been sustained in
consequence of contracts for the supply of the troops
and hospitals.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT apprehended a dangerous
precedent might now be established if the House
were to take into consideration the loss individuals
sustained in a revolutionary war. He was anxious to
know what were the value of the negroes lost by the
present claimant?
Sir J. YOTtKE thought a claim accruing at so dis-
tant a pciiod should be thoroughly investigated be-
fore it was granted.
Mr. T. WILSON thought it appeared from the in-
vestigation, that this claim was just and well boon Jed.
If one quarter *of this sum could have been established
originally, that, at compound interest, .would have
amounted to the sum now claimed.

119
43
-76

Mr. BANKS, after a few words, moved, that thel
consideration of this question should be postponed.
Mr. IRVING said, he had agreed to a proposition
of this description last year. Ile would now, how-
ever, agree to this nuaion, with an understanding
that he should have precedence when next the House
went into a Committee.

The motion Was then postponed for the present.
SUPERANNUATED LIST.

Sir G. CLERK then moved a sum of £105,973 for
retired allow•ances and superannuated half-pay, &c.
to the Civil Department of the Navy.
Sir J. YORKE thought this vote might be reduced.
'`• HUME also centended for the necessity ef re-

~_..

u~

vision and reduction; it was impossible the country
could long go on under its present burdens. He did
feel it his duty to oppose this vote ; he thought not
a single shilling should be voted on this subject till
inquiry had been made on these diffeient grants.
Mr. W. SMITH particularly adverted to the al-
lo+% antes of Mr. 'Picker.
Sir G. COCK i;URN defended Mr. Tucker, who
had been in the service forty years, and had given up
the place of Purser and Secretary when Lord St. Vin-
cent plaCed him at the Board.
Sir J.YORKE said Mr. Tucker had another situa-
tion, namely, a place under the Duke of Cornwall ;
he was Receiver of the Duchy of Cornwall.
Mr. HUME then required that Ministers should
give a pledge to appoint a Committee to inquire into
this List.—No answer being given, the Honourable
Member said, as no one had deigned to give him an
' answer, he would now move that the Chairman
should report progress.
Upon this question the Gallery was cleared, but no division
took place.—Strangers were again admitted ; when, after a short
conversation, Mr. ARIUTHNOT said, at this late hour, he would
propose no other Resolution, but move that the Chairman do

report progress:
The House accordingly resumed. The Chairman reported
progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Wednesday.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH moved the third reading of
the Dwelling-house Robbery Dill, which was not opposed by the
Attorney-General. The Bill was then read a third time; as
' was the Navigable Rivers Rubbery Bill.
The House then proceeded to dispose of the other Orders, when
Mr. F. PALMER, observing there were not forty Members
present, the House was counted, and an adjournment took place
,it Haas-Pus Oka to. Wednesday next.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDO-.NI.

SATURDAY, JUNE 9, 1821.
THE FUNDS.
PRICES OF STOCKS THIS DAT AT ONE O'CLOCK
3 per Cent. Reduced 76 7.578-3 per Cent. Cons. shut
4 per Cent. 941/8 91—.5 per Cent. shut
Long Ans. 19 1-16 19—Exch. Bills ls. pr. par 2s. pr.
Cons. for Acct. 77 % %•

The merits of Mr. SCARLM'S Bill were again
the subject of a smart conversation last night in the
House of Commons. The Learned Author of the
Bill has taken it much in dudgeon that it should be
nicknamed, as he phrases it ; but, surely, when a Bill
is sent forth to the world with the title of a Poor
Laws Amendment Bill, it cannot be unbecoming in
those who are desirous of preventing unsuspecting
persons from being. deceived by so specious a title,
to warn all and sundry that it is not what it pro-
fesses to be—a Bill to amrnd, but a Bill to destroy, the
Poor Laws. Sir R.Wtcsos calls it a Bill for the spo-
liation of the Poor ; we call it a Bill to banish the Poor,
a Bill to depopulate the country ; and were we not
right in thus denominating it, we are sure we should',
never have the respectable authority of so practical
a philanthropist and enlightened a Member of the
House as Mr. GURNEY, for saying, as he did last
night, that to pass the Bill into a law would be
nothing less than an act of flagrant insanity.--
The author of the Bill is, moreover, much displeased
that any attempt should have been made, previous to
the Bill's coming fully under discussion, to make it
the subject of clamour throughout the country ; and
in this displeasure he has been, in an especial man-
ner, joined by Mr. BROCGIIANI, who has not hesitated
to denounce the opposition which has been raised
out of doors, as unprincipled and short-sighted.-
-But here, aguin, we shall beg to place the autho-
rity of Mr. Guaxuw against that of both the Learned
Gentlemen. The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. G
NEY) professed his cordial, entire, and unmixed
abhorrence of this Bill, and felt grateful to any
Honourable Gentleman who, at any time, exposed
it, and the oftener it !vas exposed the better! What,
indeed, is the use of the publicity given to the
introduction of Bills into the House, unless it
be that the people out of doors may bestir them-
selves, to examine into their merits, and if they see
anything threatened injurious to their interests, that
they may in proper time petition against them ?
Mr. SCARLETT would have nothing said about his
Bill till it is in Committee ; that is, till it would be
too late for the People out of doors to make any
effectual resistance against it. We have too high
an idea of the Learned Gentleman's • sense of ss liar
is right and honourable, to imagine, for a moment,
that he would be a party to anything like what is vul-
garly called smuggling a Bill through the House,
especially one of public concern ; but what else can
be the tendency of any attempt to check the earliest
and freest expression of the popular opinion on any
measure before the House?

The conversation which has led to these remark,,
took place on the presentation of a Petition by Sir
ROBERT WILSON, from certain Freeholders and Ley-1
payers of the Parish of Royton, in Lancashire, which
was received, and ordered to be printed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER afterwards
moved the Order of the Day for bringing up the Re-
port of the Budget; upon which some conversation
followed. The grant of £6,000 a-year, and £13,000
arrears to the Duke of CLARENCE was carried, An a
division of 119 to 43.

The Paris Papers of Wednesday arrived this fore-
noon.—Letters from Marseilles announce that news
had been received there of a Greek fleet having passed
the Dardanelles.

It is stated, in commerciafletters from the Gre-
cian Archipelago, that the Pacha of Morea has made
strong complaints to the British Government of the
lonian Isles, of the rebels being furnished from these
Islands with all sorts of warlike stores, and even can-
non. He threatens the most rigorous measures if
they are continued, such as interruption to British
commerce, and the Seizure of all British ships.—
The Pacha has sent to Constantinople a detailed re-
presentation on the subject ; and it is in consequence
of this that the Government of the lonian Isles is said

to have intimated to all its Authorities to take no
part, directly or indirectlf, in the Greek insurrection.
" It is not believed, however," add the letters, " that
these prohibitions will have any effect ; the Greeks
ate too animated to be intimidated ; and the Euro-
peans in general, in Turkey or the neighbourhood,
are favourable to the success of their cause, some
from commercial interest, otters from enthusiasm.—
Whatever may be the result of the measures employed
against the Greeks, the fermentation will not, accord-
ing to all appearances, be calmed for a long time;
and the insurrection will have remarkable conse-
quences, supposing that the Turks should even suc-
ceed in maintaining their power."
An article, dated Bucharest, the Ist of May, states,
that the day before news were received there of the
Turks having crossed the Danube and moved on
Bucharest and Tergowischt. At Obeschitin they fell
in with thirty Arnauts of the corps of YPSILANTI,
and cut them all to pieces, with the exception of
three. In the district of Alaska a troop of peasants
endeavoured to oppose some resistance ; twenty-five
of them were killed ; the rest consulted their safety
in flight, and the Turks did not pursue. The ad-
vanced posts of the Turks had entered Gimjazi on
the 30th of April ; they leave in every village small
detachments.

-----
French live per Cents. Tuesday, 86 fr. 55 c.

Mails have arrived to-day from Holland and Flan-
ders. We subjoin extracts from them of some ar-
ticles respecting the Greeks, in which, however, there
is more confusion than novelty or importance: