Star.
London, England, 1811-02-23 00:00:00

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.4, petition ems osesrad its tie Oa the tOble until the sewed Slight het tobe • deriteciecis An ireiarteit The history the eetiressiong et those feelingi ind opinions whteit
r.a2ing of the 8,14 when the I'ctitismers are td be heard by cl the present motion was not *enerall* lr.nown. In the Irish eneetiolies, coininiinly with then, fellovenseb-
Coterie. consequence,s. of Mr. Hay'S letter to the Catholics of jests, were rtuitrally and politically entitled to declare
mr. on.itHAmi the Inspector of Convicts, preseht.4 the
onvening their delegates, Kr. Secretary : to thet HOUSee
of that llt.partetent, which Were ordered to lie on the Ireland. c
Asseusits Pole's counteracting letter was actotclingly issued, . Mr. PA ft e/F,1.1. steed' that until coninlete hilt-it--
Table.
Mr. 1.).•.•:.•tc and Mr. HAS:, from the Bask. presented t!).: eusce the first circular letter was violetionare of the re
. ation should he laid before the Houti of the res.
Val:i0114 a:crtints recently cr dered by the Hove relative to Bee, known law of Ireland, which designated the assent•
sons which iitsluced the Irish Government to put the
lion and 13a:dt Notes. which were ordered to he printed.
Vine of any description of persons to propose the r 6 Convention Act in Force, he shoitid a'astain from giv-
•eio reputation ;Ott went throuvil a Committee, the Report or • , .
which wall ttret•lcti to Ito received on Monday. peal of es•ablished laws to be guilty of a high misde- bee his decisive opinion upon the subject ; but he
Mr . I.OSINGON brought up the It tport of the Scotch meanour. Now, was not the whole of the proceeding thought it his duty to state some circumstances con-
Crseitors Bill, which was ui:reed to, and the bin was ordered to in question such an illegal kind of act ? Joining Co- fleeted with the passing of that Act, which might af-
be r.ad a thi...l time cn hlomlay.
7..1r. ROSE hrought in a Bill to amend the 13th and '2'2d of the gether to elect members from different counties, the ford some ettplanation of its object. Before doing so,
Kin, r,pee:ing. the vragcs of persons employed In the Silk Ma. managers of this proceeding must have known, that , however, he must, in the most positive manner, deny
nufzctore. Read a first time, and ordered to be read a second substantially and essentially, they were defeating the the assertion of the Right Honoursble Gentleman.—
design on liini:ay. design of the Non-Convention Act. It might not, diet the Cethelies of Ireland enjoyed complete tole-
-IMr. Goi.3O.!RNT presented a return of the Male and Female
erhaps, have been expedient, notwithstanding, to ration. It was notorious to every person in the king-
COr.VIC:3 Ultder serne::ze of ti a:op:miion. Ordered to lie on the P
enfore the rigour of the law--(Hear, hear, hear .
9 ' dom, that they were deprived of Many of tile mot
Tar ! e.
Sir JOHN NENATORT gave Notice, That on Tuesday he This might not be expedient, indeed, but the legality ' valuable civil rights possessed by the rest of his Ma.
vi.:;:id move far Papers relat.vc to certain Acts passed hi the last of the restriction was clear. Yet, admitting it as a jesty's subjects. In the year 1793, a Committee of
Bei,ion of Pathan-wilt, respecting the Customs and Excise of question of expediency, still he would say, it was a : the Irish House of Lord was appointed to enquire
Ireland, case in which Government was compelled to act._ into the causes of forsdsords and sfisturhences
Even the very p .pers moved for, would not autho- I which at that time prevailed in many parts of Ire-
rise the House to preceed on the subject ; so that, on land. 'Phat was accerdingly done, and after the I
thisscore, he should feel bound to negative the motion. I most min
progress of the insurrection, the
ute examination of possums who were well
Surprise was expressed at Government not having ! acquainted with the y
taken up this business till six weeks after the letters of , reported they were occasioned entirely by poor and
Mr. Hay appeared. He was tot sure that Govern- i ignorant labouring men, who denominated them-
ment had earlier intelligence of the letter, or that it ' selves the 4. Defenders." In 1;98, disturbances again I
WAS issued at the time of its date. However this, broke out in Beltast, occasioned by the industrious i
and other points, might turn out, still ke should most circulation of seditious publications, reviling the laws I
lament, that the tune and temper with which topics of the land, and extollieg the French nation end
connected with Ireland were taken up, upon almost French prnnciples. A number of arms, and large •
all occasions, could not but lead to. consequences quantities of gunpowder were towed in the possessive
ml
injurious to both countries. ' of the disaffected. end there was no doubt but their!
Mr. GRATTAN deprecated the situation in which ! object was to overturn the established Government. I
the two countries, England and Ireland, had been toe . A short time afterwards a report was laid before the
long placed. Ireland could not exist without the Parliament, stating an intention of the United Irish-I
friendly support of England, nor could England be men to establish a National Convention, and that a ;
safe without the same alliance with Ireland; hence Committee had been established, to correspond with i
the Imperial Parliament, considering her peculiarities, political societies abroad, in England and in Scotland.
as a speiees of minor, especially with reference to the —The Report concluded with stating, that certain 1
Catholics,whowerethenstillunrepresented, wouldnur- persons had assumed the functions of Government
ture and defend her. If, therefore, they could not by levying taxes and receiving contributions, con-I
render all desirable assistance to Ireland, they (Par- teary to law, and dangerous to the public safety.—
liament) should at least take care that no Minister Upon that Report the Convention Act was founded.
should vex their minds, and degrade their remaining From those circumstances it was clear that its object i
liberties. It was highly necessary that, in this state was to meet the conspiracy which was then forming i
of things, communication should be kept open be. to subvert the Gwernmere, establish a Republic, and
tween Parliament and the Representatives of the separate Ireland from this country.—Now the ques- j
Catholic,; he, therefore, disapproved of the Conven- tien Was; whether that law, passed for a specific pur-
tion Act. It was a bad law, made in bad times ; and Pc/se, seould now be put in force against the ;thole
ought to he liberally construed, in order to enable the body of Irish. Catholics, to prevent their submitting
Irish Catholics to maintain a substantial cernmunice- their grievances to Parliament ?—(Hear, hear)—The
tion, not a shadowy one, with the people of Ireland. proposed meeting might be illegal, or it minlit not ;
(Hear, Hear.)—Since the Union, this national corn- lie should not then give an opinion, but he dial not
munication was rendered still more difficult. We suppose that it came within the spirit or letter of that
wanted the general sense of the Catholics ; if we particular law. What was the conduct of the Cahn-
asked for this, we must ask it from the general body tics of late ? Nothing more than it had been in the
of that description of people—not from the passions years 1793, 1805 and 8, when Committees were termed
and interests of men—yet this was only to be obtained to promote their interest and assert their claims.
from tile general body, properly assembled. Let Some of the most respectable Noblemen in Ireland
this communication then remain, he would not say were Members, and in 1793 they presented an Ad•
unmodified, but unembarrassed, since on this species dress to his Majesty, praying for redress, when the Go-
of communication the whole integrity of polity de- vernment of that time, so far from thinking them a
pended. If, indeed, there existed a plan for assem- dangerous class of subjects, actually granted them a
bling a National Convention, under the name of Ca- number of privileges. The Catholics, in short, fre-
thulic
Delegates, and Ministers were apprised of the (silently formed Committees to promote the object
fact, then, he would say, they were bound to prevent which they now had in view, but never, till
they
pre-
it. But in this last extremity the question was not ' sent, met with any interruption from Lord Hardwick?.
whether the law should be put in force ; for, still, Lord Westmorland, the Duke of Bedhird, or Duke of
it might have been executed with mildness, so as to Richmond, who had been successively Lords Lieute-;
leave nothing behind! Knowing that Mr. Pole's mots of' Ireland. Parliament itself even dictated the!
letter went upon the mere report of an intention to mode of petitioning which the Catholics now pursued,
resist the Convention Act, he, instead of that letter, because on their presenting a petition in 179'2, it was
would' have preferred an admonition, and parental rejected on its coming from only what was then ter-
address. Ministers had, however, assumed the in- nsed an obscure faction. In 1805, a Right Honour- I
tention of an inimical and hostile proceeding ; and, able Gentleman said a petition then before the House
therefore, lie, for one, condemned that part of Mr. could not be considered to come from the Catholics
Pole's letter which pronounced the Catholic Meet- of Ireland, as he observed, that not an individual out
ing to be illegal. Even the superior good manners of nineteen counties had signed it. What course then
of Ministers should have dictated better language.— was left the Catholics to pursue, to obviate those t.b.
The' system of Delegates had been acted upon jections, but to adopt some mode to chew that eman- •
during the years 1799, 1806, and 1809, who had ciliation was demanded by the whole body ? Could
in those years appointed a Committee of Managers; it be objected to them, that they were engaged in ex-
yet these proceedings were permitted. Delegations citing tumult, or disturbing the Government ? The
of this kind were necessary, were also authorised ; Right Hon. Gentleman could not say they occasion-
else, why had not the House objected to all the ed or countenanced the late disturbances ; on the
Catholic Petitions, proceeding from Delegation, contrary, the Solicitor General acknowledged, upon
which he had at various times brought in ? Did the the trial of some prisoners, that they were contiaed
House mean to attack and refuse them now, manu- entirely to the lower order, and who had no political
factured by the same instruments, and prosecuted or religions object in view. He might confidently
by the same means? (Hear.) Amongst these was say, that for many years the Catholics had shewn as
a Mr. Macdonald, one of the best men in Ireland ; , much loyalty as any other class of subjects, al-
was he now to be liable to imprisonment ? He though no privilege whatever was conferred upon
knew many men there of the same mould, some of them, in consequence eef the Act of Union, notwith-
them rising at the Bar, whom he gloried to see— standing the promises held out to them, on condition
faithful, and honourable, and affectionate,--end, of their giving their support to that measure (Hear,
knowing such persons, he thought that mind should hear.) Every petition which had been since presen-
not be suffered to evaporate, or, what was still worse, ted by them was rejected. Seeing, therefore, a mi.
to retire to dens and caves, there to brood, in gloomy i meroue and deserving class of people repeatedly dis-
thought, plans of revenge and woe ! Perceiving fire `appointed and exasperated, he appealed to the House
and mettle amongst the Catholics et Ireland, lie I whether they were not deserving of far better treat-
wished most to embody it into the political service of I ment, than being mode subject to the Convention Act?
the Empire.—(Hear.)—But the present measure was I (Cries of Hear, hear.) Was it not doing them the
absolutely retrospective, and not less so than prosper- 1 greatest possible injustice ? He trusted the House
tive. It went toaftectthe past, as wellas the future; and I would consider it so, and remove the grievance, unless
since such was the else, while they were about to pu- I very strong reasoas could be adduced to justify their
nish Lord Fingal, who was still Chairman to the Ca- I continuance.
tholic Committee, they ought also to punish Lord General LOFTUS gave the utmost credit to the
Grenville for having corresponded with him in that I Honourable Gentleman for being actch livated by the bese
t
capacity.—(Laughe !)—Parliament ought, in truth, • motives in delivering the speehie did, but h
instantly to protect Ireland in the usual and legal I was afraid that many puts of it were calculated mere
mode of petitioning. There was nothing like coin- ito mislead than to infortn the House. He could not
mon sense, feeling put out of the question, in
con I admit that the lower clesses of the Irish were in so
cusing the Catholics of that country : indeed, he n. ; bad a situation as had been represented. He conten-
sidered it to he one of the first ditties of the House to ded, that they were exactly in the same situation as
address the Regent to countermand the measures . the lower classes in this country. The only advantage
which seemed meditated against them. He was aware they could gain, were their demands fully conceded,
of the ailedeed impetuosity of Irish people, even in • would be to make Catholic gentlemen eligible to fill
petitioning the Legislature ; but passionate expres- from SO to4ooffices. But would that relieve the people?
eions, excerpts of patience, were not to preclude the No. If it was,tded to improve easyitu of the
people, by any law, from tittering their complaints.— poorer class there was but one mettles' of do-
(Hear!)—Goeernment had, in the present crisis of ing it—let Gentle
men lower their rents, for high
things, better have supposed than asserted a Conven- rents was the reidtrievance they endured, and not any
tion. We are now contending against the evil of dis- disqualification on account of their religion, as he
qualifying our fellow-citizens, at disabling ability, of knew that the great majority of Irish Catholics knew
degrading heroism. We might still labour to prevent no more of emancipation than they knew of his being
the meeting of the Catholic Delegates, but the remee then speaking. Would any Gentleman say that the
• val of disqualifying restrictions was the only trite po- present Lord Lieutenant bad in any respect oppressed
licy. Catholics would never be satisfied with less than them ? All his acts were a contradiceon to it, and
Protestants. He could perceive • the time would he therefore trusted the House would not hastily ;ea-
soon come, when Catholics would be seen sitting in sure the late measure of that Nobleman, until an op-
that House, and voting with Protestants who sat poitunity was afforded him of laying the whole par-
there.—(flear!)—That time must come. Nor was titulars before the House, which he hoped would he
there any danger of a rebellion in Ireland, except soon, and in that expectation he should oppose the
it was presently fomented by improperly restricting production at present of any additional documents.

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COMIIITTFF OF WAYS AND mEmis.
The acciamts relative to the War Taxes, and to
the surplus of the Consolidated Fund, having been
."cietred to the Committee of Ways and Means, the
lionse, on the motion of Mr. WlLkaros, resolved
itself into the Committee, in which the following Re.
solutions acre agreed to :
On the motion of Mr. WHARTON,
..That the sum of £856,757, being the surplus of the Conso-
lidated Fund on the itt of January, 1811, be applied towards
raising the supply granted to his Majesty.
That a surn, being part of the produce of the War Taxes, be
applied towards raising the supply granted to his Majesty.
" That the suns of £1,500,000 be raised by Exchequer Bills,
for the s.reice of Great Britain.
" That the sum of X 10,500,000 be raised by Exchequer Bills,
for the service of Crest Britain.
That the usual Malt and Pension Duties, &c. be continued
an,l towards raising the Supply."
On the motion of Mr. FOSTER,
" toe cum of ..E1,000,000 be raised by Treasury Bills in
Ireland."
The House having been resumed, the Report was
orJered to be received to-morrow.

CAINOLIC COMMITTEE.
The Hon. Mr. WARD now rose.—lntroductory
to the motion for Papers he was about to make, the
Hon.. Gentleman called the attention of the House
to the inauspicious circumstances attending the enact-
ment of what had been called the Convention Act.
This act was (he said) passed in bad times, and
ought to be limited by the necessity, provided such
*kind of necessity had at all existed, which had given
it birth. Hence he felt it impossible to support Mini-
sters, fur he could not conceive any Government at
liberty to rummage over the darkest pages of the
statute book, the blackness of darkness, in order to
collect matter for offensive laws, and then promul-
gate them without any reason or right. It appeared
that se far for there being any cause for the proceed.
ing to which he must allude, so far from Ireland,
against which this proceeding was now meu, being
in a state of rebellion, or of approaching to it, the
pacific demeanour of that country was erten the topic
or congratulation and boast.—(Hear.)—Were the
Catholic Delegates to be viewed with a suspicious
eye ? They had existed, in their present form, since
the year 1809, unsuspected and unmolested, nor did
their present measures call for the interference of the
arm of power. Considering, however, the posture of
our affairs, was it not better for our Government still
to have to deal with this delegation, than with the
mob whom they were stated to represent?—(Hear,
liter!)—Yet by the steps adopted by the Lord Lieu-'
tenant in contravention of this delegation, some thou-
sands of individuals might be rendered obnoxious ro
imprisonment, who did not mean to infringe even the
letter of the law ; nay, who were not conscious of
their having at all violated it.—(Hear, hear, hear !)
Ministers might possibly be in possession of some
secret information, which to themselves justified
the course they were pursuing towards Ireland ;
but the matter to be complained of was, that such
information was not before the House, while the
measure indicated Ireland to be in the most perilous
s'euation.—(Hear.)—lt was to be remarked, never-
tigess, that six months had elapsed beforc Govern-
ment noticed the circular letter to the Catholics ; and
that the speech which the Regent had been curiously
advised to make, took not the least notice of Ireland,
excepting as to some deficiency in its revenue, though
it must have been known, at the time of the speech,
that the sister kingdom was far from being in a sa-
tisfactory state. The letter of Secretary Pole, it
should also be remarked, was circulated just on the
eve of his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales
becoming Regent, as if chosen as the epoch for in-
juring that Illustrious Personage in the estimation
of his Irish subjects, whose attachment he had here-
tofore possessed and eminently deserved. A Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer) had been for four years leader of the Anti-
Catholic party—Let the House look at the effect of
his measures, however well intended, and then de-
cide, whether it was by Insurrection and Conven-
tion Bills that the Irish could be subdued ? When lie
said thus much, it was not his aim to irritate the peo-
ple nretraecoanof ; but as silence might be constru-
ed into an acquiescence it the measures of Govern-
ment respecting it, he felt it incumbent upon him to
explain his own views. All that he wished, or wished
most, was far correct information on Irish affairs ;
for it was material to evince on our part, at this crisis
of time, some concern for Ireland. (Hear.) Above
all, especially at this conjuncture, he would wish Mi-
nisters to abstain, not only from violence, but from
the appearance of it, in their conduct towards that
people ; since violent measures would only recoil with
tenfold force, on those by whom they might be ad-
vised. It now only remained that he should move—
fcr copies, or extracts, of such correspondence between
the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland (Duke of Richmond)
and the Secretary of State for the Home Department
(E irl of Liverpool), as related to the circular letter
signed by Mr. Secretary Pole.
Mr. YORKE, although he agreed with the Hon.
Gentleman who had just down, as to the anxious
consideration due to the state of Ireland, and the
propriety of extending every practicable indulgence ;
was by no means satisfied that the not conceding of
Catholic Emancipation implied any want of sympathy •
towards Ireland, much less intolerance to her. The
House must know, Britain know, Ireland could not
hot know, that the whole of his present Majesty's
leien had been conspicuous for indulgencies to his
Roman Catholic subjects--(Hear.)—All h been
ben-
done, perhaps, that could be done. Catholic eman-
cipation, as it was called. could not be cv:ip eded;