Star.
London, England, 1818-03-17 00:00:00

completion. Though this was the only head
which there appeared any increase in the present
.annates, those who had read the Report of the
Committee and the statement of the engineer, of
" he had already spoken, would feel that it was
'necessary for him to say any more on this subject.
works at Chatham and Sheerness would save a
• expenditure, which had formerly been called
In the course of the present Session some obser-
vations had escaped Gentlemen, which seemed to in-
an opinion, that that important branch of Rri-
power, the Navy, had been neglected by the Go.
vernment. Though this had appeared to be the
opinion of some Dion. Members, from what had in-
cidentally escaped them when other matters *ere in
-tte, he could not believe that such an idea was
tously entertained. The Navy was felt by Govern-
to be the bulwark of the nation—the great
source of its glory—and every thing had been atten-
to that promised to give it strength and effi-
Ir. Pensions had been given of late years, not
sly to disabled seamen, but to those who might,
day be called upon to serve their country again.
Greenwich the number of pensioners now amoun-
to 35,000 ; they indeed rather exceeded that
number, many of whom might again be required to
The arrangements which had been made were
• that an expedition could now be fitted out
sooner than at any former period. He might be al-
lowed to remind the House how rapidly, In one re-
* instance, an expedition had been got ready for
The expedition with which it was prepared was
unexampled as was its efEciency when complete.—
this the distinguished Officer who commanded it
borne his testimony, and the briniant manner in
the service on which it was sent had been ac-
.imptished, was well calculated to remove every
doubt. Looking at these things—ac what was done
--and what had so lately been done by the Navy,
'st be seen that the fear that the Navy had not
properly attended to—had not been kept in a
proper state of efficiency, was vain. A state of peace
not afford those opportunities for brilliant enter-
• and daring achievement which necessarily
ont of a state of war ; but there were under-
takings, even in times of peace, in which the courage,
”1 and persevering spirit of enterprize which dis-
iguished the British sailor, might be most usefully
Bayed. An expedition, the object of which was
important to the world, was now about to leave
shores. It had ever been the boast of this coun-
that in war it defended the weak against the
tg, and in peace it had always been foremost to
those arduous exertions to extend the limits of!
'graphical knowledge which her great naval means
srded her peculiar opportunities of attempting
t success. At present, in various parts of the
ld, active and intelligent officers were making sur-
of coasts hitherto unexplored, or but very im-
perfectly known. The expedition now about to sail
would attempt to solve a problem most interesting
maritime science. To services of this sort, he
sted, British sailors would long be directed ; but
ircumstances should again plunge us in a war,
powerful arm of defence, our Navy, would again
nut forth with a degree of strength and rapidity
had never been equalled in the history of the
country. Notwithstanding the fears of some Gentle-
men, it would be seen, that there never was a period
when this country, in the event of a war breaking
, could so effectually display in all parts of the
world its greatness and its power. He concluded by
moving, tatasum not exceeding 2,480,6801. 17s. Ski.
should be granted for the ordinary service of the Navy.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY expressed a hope that the
suggestions contained in the Report of the Finance
-snuttee would be attended to and promptly car-
into execution. He rose to move an amendment,
object of which was to reduce the Estimates by
2000 L in order to take off the Salaries of two of the
Tunior Lords of the Admiralty. In a former Session
ad moved that the number of Admiralty Lords
could be diminished, but it would be recollected
those situations had been defended as necessary to
ive the friends of those who came into power,
as a school for young Statesmen. Had he not
heard this gravely stated in that House, he could
sot have believed that a motion like that which he
d made could he resisted on such grounds. As it
been so resisted, he should move the ameaci-
.:ent be had auncunced. He might have been more
disposed to acquiesce in the decision which had been
come to, had the question whether there ought to be
or six Lords of the Admiralty been disposed of
another way, but he could not help thinking, if
t schools for young Statesmen were necessary, it
but reasonable that the Admiralty Lords should
for their own education. The 20001. which he
posed to take front the Estimate, he wished struck
not that it was of itself of any importance when
were Noting millions away, but it was the prin-
ce of the thing to which he objected, and which
thought called for the interference of the House.
They ought to declare that in the present situation
1- the country, they could not afford in future to
2000/. per annum for the education of young
itesmen. It might be through the establishment'
'his school that an Honourable Gentleman, then
its eye, had afforded him the pleasure of reading
ery entertaining book, entitled, " Stories for Chii-
.n."—(lfear, hear.)—Though this book had consi-
'able merit, he could not allow the author to be
to right when he described King Charles the First
,e an excellent man and a good king. At all
,ents, he could not think that either this, or the
Luarterly Review, the best pages of which he under-
:ood owed their existence to the same able Gentle-
tan, and which might be considered as equally the
it of the School established at the Admiralty, fur-
.ished a good reason for continuing thus to expend
3000/. annually—(hear, hear.)—By striking off this
2000/. though the sum was small, it would convince
'he public that the House- was sincerely anxious to
'duce the public expenditure. He hoped those who
voted for the Motion of a Noble Lord on a for-
mer night, on the subject of the Leather Tax, would
now leave the Chancellor of the Exchequer in
lurch, by voting for a continuance of the present
:penditure, while they voted in favour of a reduc-
tion of the Taxes. He moved, as an amendment,
sat the sum of 2,478,6801. should be granted, in-
:eaZt of the sum, first moved for.
Lord CASTLEREAGH did not rise for the put..
use of arguing the question which had before been
-Wed, upon the propriety of keeping up the pre-

sent number of Lords of the Admiralty. On the oc-
casion which had been referred to, the question had
been fully looked at in every point of view. The
Board was now as it had existed for more than a
century past, and fewer Commissioners, when it was
considered that some were wanted at the Outports,
it did not appear to him would be sufficient. All
the suggestions of the Committee of Finance had
been attended to. The Honourable Member had
very pleasantly stated so much of the argument that
had been used in the former debate on the Admiralty
Lords, as served his purpose. He (Lord Castlereagh)
was sure he could not state his share of it in the same
pleasant manner, and should therefore trust to the
recollection of the House and sit down.
Mr. BANKES could so far confirm the statement
of his Noble Friend as to state that the Committee of
Finance had great reason to be satisfied with the
economy introduced into various departments, and
with the attention paid to all the suggestions they
had thought it their duty to throw out. He had read
that morning a minute respecting the Ordnance De-
partment, formerly the most expensive, which had
afforded him great satisfaction, and he trusted it
would be equally satisfactory to the House when it
came before them.
The Committee divided, when the numbers were,
For the Amendment, 58—Against it, 85—Majority
ngainst the amendment, 27.
After the gallery was cleared for a division, and
just as the tellers were proceeding to count, Mr. WIL-
BERFORCE popped in at one of the doors, but imme-
diately retreated. The tellers, however, having seen
him, followed and brought him in ; when he was
asked by the Chairman of the Committee whether he
had heard the question put? To which he
in the negative. The Chairman then the
question to be read to him, which was done, and
then asked him which way he voted? Mr. WIL-
BERFORCE replied, for the Ayes, but took his seat
among the Noes.
Mr. LYTTELTON then observed, that he saw
a Member among the Noes, who had declared he
meant to vote with the Ayes ; and contended that he
ought not, therefore, to be told in is present situa-
tion; he meant the Honourable Metter for Bramler.
Mr. WILBERFORCE admitted that he had for a
moment neglected his duty : and coming into the
House when the Committee was on the point of di-
viding, without even knowing the subject of the de-
bate, he had endeavoured to withdraw ; but had
been followed by the tellers, one of whom had drag-
ged him from the place to which he had retreated,
and that in his confusion he had declared he should
vote with the Ayes, when he really meant to vote
with the Noes, being, determined to vote in the op-
posite side to the individual who had brought him
forward against his will, in order to prevent his be-
ing treated so in future.
The CHAIRMAN stated, that he conceived the
Honourable Member was perfectly justified in chang-
ing his mind, and voting one way, after declaring
his intention to vote another—(hear, hear.)
Lord FOLKESTONE called the attention of the
House to the declaration of the Honourable Member,
that, without regard to principle or the merits of the
case, he voted from the sole motive of disappointing
the teller who had brought him into the House; and
was proceeding to contend, that it was the duty of
both the tellers to bring in any Member whom they
found in that situation, when he was interrupted by
a call of order; and the CHAIRMAN repeated, that
the Honourable Member had a right to retract any
declaration of his intentions made in error, and he
was accordingly counted among the Noes.
A Grant of 1,787,1811. was moved for, to cover
Charges for Buildings and Repairs in his Majesty's
Dock Yards. _ _ _

Sir M. W. RIDLEY called the attention of Mini-
sters to the situation of Pursers in the Navy. He
described the case of that very meritorious class of
men to be one of great hardship. They were at pre-
sent in great distress, and were not so numerous but
they might be relieved by a sum little exceeding that
which he had had the honour to propose should be
taken from the Lords of the Admiralty.
Mr. CROKER stated half-pay to have been allow-
ed to Pursers within the last three years. It would
be seen that it was not in the power of the Board of
the Admiralty to grant the relief called for without
opening a door much larger than the Hon. Member,
' seemed to contemplate, to other applicants. He
begged to state, the Board of Admiralty had already
gone to the expense of keeping supernumerary clerks,
which were chosen from the Pursers whose conduct
had been most meritorious.—Motion agreed to.
The following Grants were then voted :
For provisioning Garrisons on Foreign Stations, for Ships of
War and Transports, 360,0001.
To cover the Expenses of the Transport Service for 1818,
178,9481-

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