Star.
London, England, 1820-06-28 00:00:00

He admitted, that to all the modes proposed, certain
advantages belonged. He did, not call upon4ie
House to do anything for the . of impeding
inquiry ;he only wished them . that' mode
which was most consonant with' :4.`;(-- .ciples of lave
and justice, and the least injuri.. o the character
of the House. In looking at the conduct of his Ma-
jesty's Ministers throughout the whole of this un-
happy affair, he must say, that it appeared. to him to
be very open to suspicion. Uncertainty and indeci-
sion marked the whole of their conduct, and they
had now brought the House into a situation, from,
whence it could not advance without danger, ;nor I
recede without dishonour. In his opinion, his Ma-
jesty's Ministers were guilty of a culpable waste of
feeling ; they had brought, not only the best interests
of the country, but the honour of the Crown, into
peril. He did not mean to go into an historical detail
of all the proceedings connected with the case: but
their Lordships would recollect, that it was more
than twelve months ago a Commission was sent out
to the Continent, by what authority, under what seal,
from 'whom, or from whence that Commission was
issued, might perhaps come out is the course of those
inquiries; but it was appointed to collect evidence as
to the conduct of her Majesty abroad. It was nearly
twelve months since that Commission made its Re-
port, and all that time had his Majesty's Ministers
been in possession of it. In his opinion it was the
duty of those Ministers, on receiving that Report, to
have taken it into their immediate consideration, and
to have formed their decision as to the nature of the
course which the case required. If they did not think
that there was in that Report sufficient cause for
bringing forward an accusation against the Queen,
`thew it was their duty to state their opinion boldly
.arid manfully to their Sovereign. If they were of
opinion that there was sufficient ground for accusa-
tion, then it was equally their duty to bring it for-
ward, to propose some specific measure: and thus they
'would have avoided all that uncertainty which has
produced so much dangerous agitation in this collo•
try for the last three weeks—(Hear, Aunt):--In his
opinion, if the Ministers had agreed that there was
ground for accusation, they should have been long
since prepared with it ; they should have served po-
tice to that effect on her Majesty ; the witnesses might.
thus be prepared on all sides, and the question might
have been decided before this time. He would not
detail the whole of the conduct which those Ministers
thought prOper to adopt, and which differed so ma-
terially from the course he had just pointed, out. But
when at last they did bring forward :their charge,
they admitted that there was ground for negotiation.
In that case it was their duty to have attempted that
nogociation without delay, and while her Majesty
was in a situation to agree to a compromise with ho-
nour to herself: But they did not attempt any such
thing, and here they were guilty of the most unpar-
donable neglect. When, therefore, he coupled wish
this conduct the terms which were proposed in that
letter of lord Hutchinson, which was published in
the and which gave a quotation from a letter
of thPellZble Earl opposite, threatening her Majesty
with instant criminal proceedings if she should come
to this countrywhen he coupled that again with
the Message which had been sent down to their Lord-
ships, and which contained something like a charge
of adultery—at least, nobody would say that that
Message did not suppose grounds for accusation of
the most grave nature—when, he repeated, be cou-
pled these things together, he was astonished that his
Majesty's Ministers should make such charges, and
at the same time throw them on the table, obviously
wishing to withdraw themselves from that duty from
which they never should be allowed to shrink with
his consent—( Hear, hear).—But this was not the only
instance which furnished proof of the weakness of
the present Government. It had been their constant
practice to turn over to the guidance of Parliament
the vessel of the State, whenever it was in danger--;
(Cheers).—They watched the moment when the
clouds darkened the Heavens, when the tempest was
gathering in the distant horizon, and when the ocean
was awakened is all its fury; when the winds raged
and the waves rose, and threatened to overwhelm
the ship, then the pilot trembled and left the vessel
to the mercy of the angry elements!—

" Qum duns sine lege geruntur ;
Aspera treads !gems; omnique e pane feruces
Bella gerunt vend; fretague inclignanda intscent.
. .

Ipse ;slyer; am se, qui di status, ipse fatetur
Sire rads rector; sec quid jubcatre, vetetre:
Tanta mall moles ;tassusque poet:odor acre estr—.(ifxr.)
This was the situation in which the country was left.
And when their Lordships recollected the manner iai
which the accusation was brought, and compared it'
with the defiance with which that accusation was
met, they should not wonder at the impression
which was so strongly made throughout the country
in favour of her Majesty--(Hear, hear).—Nay, even
one of those very Ministers, who had advised this
CTding, had said—di So help me Gozi, I will,
become her accuser." Bat what did the Right
Hon. Gentleman say more? He spoke from his per-
sonal knowledge of the Queen, and he called her
I, the grace, life, and ornament of society," If she
deserved this encomium—if she was!‘ the grace, life,

and ornament of society," why was she not -a fit part-
ner for the Throne of England ? and why, when his
colleagues spoke of charges, did he shrink from giving
advice to that effect ? For he not only called her " the
grace, lift, and ornament of society," but added, that
she was entitled to his highest respect and admiration.
And be itjecollected, at that Minister, too, spoke
those words with a knowledge of what was in the
green Mg !—{Hear, hear).—After this disclamation,
he thought that there was some inconsistency in da;
ossidact of those Ministers who had recommended t•
the House of Commons the Resolutions new ups&
their Lordships table, and who had shortly befost
that arraigned her Majesty as not fit to retain the
high rank to which she had arrived. He thought it
was not yen consistent in those Ministers at one
time to attempt to depose her Majesty from that pre-
eminent station, and in almost the nest moment to
come to her Majesty and address her in the tone of
humble supplication. Above all, he thought it highly '
inconsistent in those Ministers to send forth a decla-
ration that they would institute criminal proceed-
ing:Mk/01st her if she should set her foot on the Bri-
tish shore—i(Cihren).—and a tow days afterwards to
say to her Majesty, is tie matt supplicating tone
they could assume—
" pending low, sad $ a baadmaa's key,"
" If your. most gracious
u Majesty will be so good
as to desist from salting further concessions, after

giving Parliament, I always did feel that a proceedm,,
aCci'unigreydobnyr
hMoliesingtyoarl
charges
seriatt which yon
against her Majesty the Queen must be a great pilu.
ready to give you any kind of ship in which it may lic evil. I always deought, that whatever her con-
please your Majesty to leave this country—We are duct might have been, it must necessarily be at_
ready to recommend you to foreign Courts—we will tended with great public inconvenience. To avoo!
concede to your Majesty everything but the insertion that inconvenience, if possible, without incurtine-
of your name in the Liturgy, for this would be an greater one, was therefore an object which apper
acknowledgement of inconsistency; it would. be are- to me at all times desirable, and the conduct adopted
tractation, which, from our situations, we cannot l with that view is such as I not only avow without le.
make!"--(Near, heart)—Why, he would. ask the sitation, but defend with confidence. With resoec:
; House, was there ever anything so contemptible?—, to the measures taken to prevent the return .1 tl:e
(Hear.)--With re and to the fast measure proposed Queen, I believe theyare approved by nine-tenths ,f
by his Majesty's Ministers, it was defended upon the people; but from the moment that her Majesty';
grounds which appeared to him strange enough. resolutiou was taken to return, I ask, was these any
One of those Ministers said, indeed, that if they pur- alternative between receiving. her with all ti:c ho-
used any other conduct than that which they had wage of a Queen, and adopting the course we
adopted, they would exhibit what he had curiously which was to state, that we had refused her
termed " a contrast to themselves!"—(Near, hear! mage because we had accusations to bring ag,C:no
and laughter.)—For his part, he (Lord Grey) believed 'her? But the Noble Lord has said that his Ma-
that if such a thing were possible—if the present Mi. jesty's Ministers moved, with all the rapidity wh;tf
nisteis could really exhibit such a thing as " a con- the forms of the House would admit, the refetence of
trast to themselves"—they would confer the greatest the subject to a Secret Committee. It is true thzu
advantages on the country I And, indeed, if any such a motion was made, bat it is also true that we
one thing could be more in " contrast to them- were perfectly ready to attempt any course sheet cf
selves" than another, it was the supplicatory Address retracting the charges by which the inquiry could !,e
which they caused to be offered to the Queen, which prevented. There was nothing inconsistent in all tins.
presented certainly a strong " contrast” to the accu. As to the irregular allu,ion made by the Noble Lori
sation which they had brought against her. The to expressions said to have been used in another
terms of that Address and of the accusation were in place, he took them probably from accounts in which
direct " contrast,' for it said that they were induced they were misrepresented, and your Lordships u1;1
to make this request of her Majesty because " there- observe, among the consequences of this departuie
suit of further discussions could not but be distress- from order, that it has led to remarks upon exp.,
ing to her Majesty's feelings, disappointing to the ions, the author of which cannot be present to co..
hopes of Parliament, derogatory from the dignity of r.ct any mistatement. But the Noble L d has trca -
the Crown, and injurious to the best interests of the et the Resuluti in all along as if it was that of his
Empire r—(Hear, hear).—And yet their Lordships Majesty's Ministers. Ifhe means that it received the
were now told, that a proceeding acknowledged to support of Ministers, his impression is perfectly true;
be certain to produce such a result as this was the but if he means that they knew anything of it, even
only mode which the public good required a moment before it was proposed, his impression os
(Cheers).—He now said, that such a mode as that of perfectly untrue. Without attaching any importance
inquiry must be " injurious to the best interests of to particular words, I deny the principle of the No-
the Empire;" and if they agreed in that, he would ble Lord upon this part of the question, and contend,
ask what motive had they in encountering an inquiry that even if Queen is guilty, the prosecution may
ftaught with such injurious consequences?—(Hear). be fairly lamented. as derogatory to the dignity of
It was remarkable, too, that this result was specified the Crown, and injurious to the best interests of the
in the Address without any alternative. That result country. But it does not follow from thence, that
was unavoidable, whatever other consequences might there may not be another course more derogator) to
follow. If it meant anything, then,. it meant that that dignity, and more injurious to those Litereits.
those measures' ought to be avoided which. would The withdrawing of the charge would be tar mole
produce consequences so fatal to the interests of the so, but this does not prove the first position to be
country. He knew, indeed, that the word " inju- absurd. There is no view of this question which does
rious" was meant to apply to the exposure of the al- not present considerable difficulties. I trust the House
leged misconduct of the Queen. But he did not will do Ministers the justice to believe that they a:e
think that would really be the case. If the Queen willing to avoid the prosecution, if possible, though
had conducted herself licentiously, the only way that they cannot consent to reti act the charges. lee
remained for preserving the honour of the Crown Noble Lord has said, that the House ought tie be on
was to separate her from his Majesty. The only its guard to uphold its character as a great judicial
other way for preserving the honour of the Crown body. I hope it will do so ; I doubt- not but it will
woes to shew that her conduct was pure and unsullied. do so, for it must be a matter of satisfaction to us all
But when their Lordships were told that it was de- to reflect, that if there is in the whole world a trihu-
rogatory from the honour of the Crown to proceed nal unsullied by a single instance' of misconduct, it
with such an inquiry, he would ask them if they were is that of the English House of Lords. I maintain
prepared, when the result was so described, to pro- that the circumstances which have accrued, :o
ceed with it? For his own part, he would not take from constituting an objection to the original course,
upon himself that responsibility. As an honest Mem- have taken away the only objection that could be
ber of that House, he would say to the Ministers-- supposed to exist against it. The Noble Earl has
" Take back your accusations, and if you feel it ne- said, that the other House of Parliament may pre-
cessary to persevere in your present course, proceed ceed by impeachment, and has questioned the ince/-
with it in another shape; and on your own tesponsi- pretation given by my Noble and Learned Friend on
bility"—(Hear, hear).—" These are the grounds," the Woolsack, to the statute of Edward the Third.—
said his Lordship, "on which I solicit you to rescind But the interpretation of that statute doe, not depend
the proceeding—a proceeding in which you have al- on the opinion of my Noble and Learned Friend
ready encountered so many difficulties, and in which alone ; it is supported by every considerable legal
the further you advance the more you will be in- authority that has been consulted, and the Act has
volved in obstacles and perplexities. I have no been referred to most of the first authorities in the
earthly interest or object in the course lam pursuing kingdom : the Act pronounces it High Treason in a
but the desire that justice should be done. I know subject to commit adultery with the Queen Consort
nothing of the accusations; I stand here, hoping, from or her eldest daughter, but it does not mention one
my attachment to the Crown that the result will not word about the woman, though it must be supposed
be such as is described in the terms of the Resolu- to contemplate her consent. I think it would. be a
Lion. I stand before you perfectly impartial, know- strong interpretation of the Act, if it was a recent
ing nothing of the accusation, nothing of the defence. one, to say, that as it was High Treason in the man,
But as the accusation has been made, there is no so it must be by implication in the woman consent-
way of getting off but by an impartial adjudication ing, as these can be no accessories in Treason; but,
and decision. That the decision may be impartial, having the practice of centuries to direct us. we have
and not only impartial, but above suspicion, I intreat a right to assume that the interpretation of the Act
your Lordships to abandon a course inconsistent with is known to the Public and to the Illustrious Persons.
the best principles of the law, and calculited to re- In the case of a foreigner, however, who owes no
volt the mind of the country, in a case ip which its allegiance to the Crown, it is no crime; so that the
feelings are so deeply interested. As a necessary construction by which a Queen's offence becomes
step towards the accomplishment of an object so de- cognizable under the Act is lost in such a case, for
sirable, I shall conclude by moving your Lordships how can it be said that she is giailty of High Treason
that the Order of the Day be discharged." when he is not? But the Noble Lord had said, that
The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose and said—" My though it may not be High Treason, it may be
Lords, I certainly heard, as no doubt you all have, great offence amounting to a high crime and snis-
the speech of the Noble Lord with considerable mfr. demeanour. There again I am at issue with the
prise; He began with a legal and constitutional ar- Noble Lerd. Before it can be shewn to be a high
gument against the mode of proceeding which you crime and misdemeanour, it must be shewn to be a
have hitherto thought fit to adopt ;he told you that crime by the common law of the country. But I
the present was no party question, and that he wished say adultery is to crime at common law, it is merely
to meet it on great and solemn principles of justice a civil injury, and as such i,s liable to compensation
alone. How must I have been surprised then, how in damages. It is true, that a public officer, guilty of
must your Lordships have been surprised, to hear the a breach of duty in the execution of his office, is
Noble Lord conclude his speech with one of the most punishableby_ Parliament for a misdemeanour. but then
violent, personal, and inflammatory attacks that his offence is a misdemeanourby common law also, aod
ever has been delivered in either House of Parlia- nothing shall induce ape to create a crime for the occa-
ment ?—(Hear; hear, from Me Ministerial Benches). sion, which is not one already by the laws of the coun-
That attack lam prepared to repel as the Noble Lord try. We now come to consider what is the only course
has made iv—by reference to the comparative claims of proceeding possible for us to adopt. The only one
of both parties, as deducible from the principles that we can resort to is a legislative one; it may be for a
have governed the political conduct of each. The divorce, it may be fora Bill of pains and pate/tier,
Noble Lord has charged us with incapacity, and ar- but whatever it is, it must of necessity be a eSu l ' I
a-
gued all along upon this measure as part of that sys- tive proceeding. I find, by reference to theiournals,
tern of vacillation he has been pleased to impute to that it is competent to either House to originate the
us, and afresh instance of our incompetency to steer measure. Then comes the question with which de
the vessel of the State. This is not the occasion for House ought' to commence in the present case.
entering upon the subject ; but wheneverythe ocea- say, if the proceeding is to be of a judicial nature, it
sion comes, I shall se prepared to meet it, willing is better it should originate here than in the Howe of
and anxious to be tried by this House, the country, Commons, and for this plain season, that you are n
and posterity, on the issue which the Noble Lord has the habit of examining the witnesses upon oath. Tie
proposed—willing to lie tried, on a review of the last adjournment of the other House last night was to vain
eight years ofour opinions, acts; and measures, in the for us; and what my Noble Friend stated on that or-
course of tat period, as contrasted with the councils casion was, that if some legislative measure was nil
of the Noble Lord opposite, whose councils would commenced in this House, he would propose one in`
have led to the ruin of the country, to the prostration the House of Commons. We now came to this
of her strength, and dignity, and independence, and lative measure. Some previous inquiry, is oecessail
to the inttoduction of evils from which there could before we can determine what itathould be, or whe-
be no hope of deliverance. . Upon these grounds I ther it should take place at all; and I maintain, that
say again, that I am willing to be tried by Parlia- an inquiry by a Secret Committee is less calcalated to
ment, the country, and posterity—(llcar, hear, front prejudice the Illustrious Person than an inquiry a
the Ministerial Benches). Before Igo into the sub- Committee of the whole House. Is it fitting Ira
ject of this night's debate, I have no difficulty in the first subject in the realm should be put on her
stating the whole of my conduct as connected with trial by the mere ip se dizit of the Minister, with-
these proceedings. I have no difficulty ht saying, out Parliament interposing any authority of its owe?
that without reference to particular words alluded to The Noble Lord has assumed-that the deciiital oft `.r
ihy the Noble Lord in contradiction to the rules ofi Committee must be one, that- It must migussatily L.