Star.
London, England, 1819-12-21 00:00:00

ri bUY

&MIST.
'ierse's gr. e. 17 to 1 apt Briseise. ()taken'.
rn . 20 to 1 agst Cat (taken
-r to 151urber 2Q to 1 apt Kestrel (taktl).
22 to 1 Ago Norab.
117 to 1 apt Whalebone

HUNTING:
gent's Brag-Hounds meet on Friday, at Long-
Esse% Fos-Hounds meet on Thursday, at Mi-
r. at Alark'r-hall ; Monday, 27th, at St. Ann'sl
ighs ; Wednesday, 29th, at the Black Boy,
kisday, 30th, at the Griffin, Danbury.--Mr.
s meet on Thursday, at the Ilalfmcron, God-
. Jolliffe's Hounds meet on Friday, at Chip-
ke Pitchley Hounds meet to-morrow, at Blue
at Hodford.—The Oakley Hounds meet on
infield Green ; Friday, at Ravensden Grange.
el meet to-morrow, at Melbourne Guide Post;
eta ; Friday, at Burry.

places where their interests might be , IT vented from a meeting of that .
concerned, though they did not happen to reside The question was put on the Earl of LADDER
-
there. It had, besides, the injurious effect of sep- DALE'S Amendment, which was negatived without a
rating the mutual interests of the different classes division ; as was also the Marquis of LANSDOWN'S
from each other, by excluding from Parish Meetings -Amendment. The clause was then agreed to.
all the respectable part of the community. PENALTY ON CONVICTION.
The Earl GROSVENOR observed, that if this Lord ERSKINE expressed kis abhorrence of tf.
clause passed, it would be necessary to appoint an clause which subjected persons convicted under the
inspector effaces in every district, in order to aster- Act to the penalty of transportation for seven years.
tam those who had a right to attend Meetings. It was an insult on society to place men on a level'
The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his surprise with felons, who might have perhaps inadvertentlyi
that the Noble Earl, who bad such an aversion to transgressed, by subjecting themselves to the provi-
sinetures, should desire the creation of a new sinecure. sions of this Bill. He should not, perhaps, object tot
Lord ERSKINE opposed the clause in decided the clause, had it been confined to itinerant demo-
terms. He should suppose a man were neither a gogues, who went about inciting the people to mis-
freeholder. a copyholder, nor a householder, but still, chief; but it was barbarous in the extreme when er-
as was the case with himself; possessed property un-. tended to others. Any offence against the Actmight
der a lease, in a certain parish, yet was it just to ex- be punished as a misdemeanour, and he should there-
chide such a man from attending a Meeting in that fore move that the word " felony" be left out.
parish, where his interest was manifestly concerned? The Earl of LIVERPOOL begged to recal the
The Noble and Learned Lord commented on the attention of the Noble Lord to measures of much
severity of the clause, as it must operate against greater severity than the present, which were passed
Meetings held for the purposes of trade, and con- in a former period of our history, when the princi-
tended that its necessity was precluded by the other pies of liberty were supposed to be well understood.
prohibitory clauses in the Bill. Among these, he might mention the Riot Act, which
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that the 'ob- was passed in the reign of George 11. and which did
jection of the Noble and Learned Lord did note;- not, like the Bill now under consideration, subject
ply to the clause under consideration, but to two or the party only to be transported for seven years, but
three others, which were no less essential. The great to lose his life. That Act made it felony without
question fdr their Lordships to consider was, whether -
benefit of clergy for persons to continue assembled
the tumultuous Meetings, with which the country after an hour's notice had been given for them to dis:
had been so long agitated, ought to be got rid of or In his opinion, no more lenient measure could
not ? If the affirmative were admitted (and who with safety be devised than the ()resent.
could oppose* it ?) then that measure ought to be .
Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the seve4
adopted, which appeared most effectual ;and such a
rity of this Act was not to be justified by that of any
one was that which had been framed for the pur-
other. For himself, he was decidedly opposed to the
pose. The application of this measure to trade was
clause, for two reasons ; first, because he was perswaded
considerably narrowed by the circumstance that it It it would he for Juries to give verdicts
did not, in any respect, interfere with Meeting! held
of conviction under it, and that they would be fro.]
in rooms or buildings. With respect to Meetings in
quently placed in a most embarrassing predicament,
the open air, two limitations obviously suggested between their feelings as men, and thew scruples as
themselves, those of number and locality. The first,
sworn arbitrators; and, secondly, because if Juries
however, was rendered impossible, from the nature
should return verdicts of conviction, no Secretary of
of the thing itself ; and the second, which was a h-
State .would venture to cany them into executiosi,
mitation of locality, was, in consequence, indispens-
and the law would thus become a nullity. -
~1,
ably necessary. But the measure now proposed seas
The LORD CHANCELLOR declared hii: .
not, by any means, at variance with the-basting law
d scientious belief that the clause was one of the
upon the subject, which allowed none to attend
County Meetings under the Sheriff, except free- necessary provision& of the Bill. It behoved him,
, from
. thbeesi.tuation which belied the honour of fill-
holders, while, if others were disposed to intrude
themselves, he called what was termed a Count log. to Jealous of the rigour of the_hter; Yeesfulterl
Court, into which no one was admitted who could net'y , the most attentive consideration which be eould..bur
expa- ' stow upon the subject, he felt.himself called 00440
prove his qualification.that. the clause coald oat with safety, use.-
tiated on the merits of thelptiopoiNtmassureßarl thenot.st6' say,
as it might"
trasted with the existing law, and espoused his opi- auY aroeFlametit.
nion that the clause ought to lie adapted. I we:duress of the It= saw—
. . -

-

Meetings was to be ibund in the strength of tbela*:
and it hadiseets the policy of latter yearia and it V
one upon which they were now legislating, t.) miti-
gate that strength. The peculiar severity' of the.
existing law might be inferred from the circumstance
that, the small number of three persons met together
in a riotous manner constituted an illegal assembly.
He contended, that progression of crime should be
visited with increase of punishment, and that they
who were guilty of a misdemeanour before the pro&
clamation, should be 'visited with some punishment
for the new offence of remaining after proclamation'
had been made. Their Lordships would observe how
severe the Riot Act was in -this respect; it erfabled
the Magistrate to inflict a summary punishment on
those who persisted in not dispersing-'-one much
more severe than that to which they would be sub•
jt bY the verdict -of a Juty under this Act. His
ordstiip admitted;that if the House came to a mil'
%Weil that theie-Meetings were not dangetens, and
should not be suppressed, then, indeed, it would be
to forego the clause ; but when the necessity
of suppressing them was assumed on all bands, hat
o.oper
was at a loss to know why an opposition should be
made to a clause which merely apportioned a punish.;
I .
ment as the offence increased? This attention to'the
1 r ion of crime, he repeated, had been in our
ar7lUtsisterto too much overlooked; and there was
`some reason in the assertibn, that the strength of the
law in some measure constituted its weakness—for
!those in the adrniaistratitin- of the law-were enwil-
ling to apply it rigidly to cases of no yeat aggrata.
tion. It appeared to him, that the clause now tmdet
Consideration obviated this Objection, and on these
grounds he would vote'that it stand part if the Bali
Lord HOLLAND was afraid the Noble and Learn. •
led Lord had not well understood the maxim, that
the strength of the law formed its weakness, when
by this Clause he put Juries in the awkward and
dangerous predicament of convicting a'rrian of felony
who by accident found himself at a Meeting, and
had delayed with some ten or eleven of his friends,
talking. perhaps about business, a short time after
a certain Proclamation had been made, of which .he
knew nothing. With regard to the course of jipti.
fication set up -by referring to the Act of tketst
of George I. in which the Whigs of that day had so
large a share, he could only say, that for the con-
duct of these-Whigs he did not feel it incumbent on
him to account. Ile never praised that Act, he never
would defend it. But it- would seetn, that calling
this Act one of severity was all a mistake. The Noble
and Learned Lord, who had just sat down, had as%
gued toshew, that so far from its being an increase
of severity in the law, it was actually a mitigation
of it, when compared with the
.provisions of the Riot
Act—(Neer, hear).—Now, he would look at it a
little, and see what truth was-in this position. lathe
Ont phsee,-theofftince In the Riot Act was-clearly
defined, it was necessary That there should be an overt
riot, or tumult, in the assembly, before the law could
be resorted to. Every one saw the tumult; that
which was evidence of its being an unlawful assembly
was visible to the eyes of all. Rut by this Clause it
was impossible for any one to know when the Meer
ing began or ceased to be illegal. A man might be
qualified to be there, listening with great attention
to hit neighboui, a proclamation is read in a part of
the square where he is, hesees no caubeao be alarm-
ed, all is quiet and yet if in this unconscions4itua.
don he is detected with eleven. of his neighbours in
half an hoar after, he incurs the penalties of fidony
--(Hear, hear).—Would their Lordships sanction such
a doctrine as this ; or where wasthe jury that would
convict him to circumstanced ? It was true they
were bound by their oath to give their verdict ae-
cardinof
to law and evidence; but there was a prin-
.
ciple justice in human nature,' that even this obli-
gation was not able to silence—(Hear,- heat).--He
advised the Noble and Learned Lord to look back to
the practice of past ages, and he would see the force
the maxim, that the strength of the law made its
weakness. He would see the futility of ill-judged
seinnity, which ever defeats its own purpose; and he
would-.also see that it was the constant policy of all
the great men in our history to endeavour by all
means to conciliate the goodwill of the. People by
acts of kindness towards them—(Hear, hear).—The
Noble Lord recommended the course proposed by
the Noble Lord near him, of making the offence .a
greater misdemeanour, and punishincit by more fine
:and imprisonment, rather than making it a felony,
. nishable by transportation--(Hear, hear).—He
voted for the Amendment
.Lord ERSKINE denied that the Riot Act was a
precedent applicable to the present times, as it was
. at a time that Government was in an unsettled
.
' People did not then meet to discuss this or
that .Constitutional principle, but to cornplot against
the very existence of the Government. It was not
therefore made against Assemblies who debated the
abuse of a right, but to prevent rebellious ones. The
moderate discussion of political 'subjects by the People,
could never be a consideration of danger, he coo-
tended, to the Government of this country—(Hear).
His Lordship then quoted the opinion of.a great man
in support of this doctrine, he meant Lard Chief.
Jistice Eyre, in his charge to the Grand Jury at the
Old Bailey, on the trial of Hardy, Tooke, and
the others, in 1794, when he there laid it down, that
all men had a right to think, and that the Constitu-
tion of this country was a legitimate subject of die.
cussion—(Hear, hear).—Society itself depended on
the unrestrained liberty of opinion, and no)aw could
interfere to bridle it. These were bad times when
this opinion was given, and if it applied thin, it was
still more applicable now. He would wish to call
the attention of the Committee to the argument put
lby the Noble Lord near hip, that Juries would net
be found so convict men under the new law%, who
were guilty e( no offence. . Under these circum-
stances, be wank recootmend Abe adoption of the
Asessihaent—(Heer, hear). ' ns
The Amendment was then nesOled. : •,
Lord ELLENBOROUGH pilot6d an, Amend.