Star.
London, England, 1821-05-29 00:00:00

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,=-..----sa-4•2."--111 and Was a farmer. The Barrack Mister at Piershal
1
as notllkthe Committee, to nullify a Bill which was a linen-draper sin Haddington, fourteen miles
was'brought in by the consent of the Committee, and off. He was of opinion that the Public ought to
in pursuance of its conviction, arising out of a mi- have been saved £15,000 of the £29,000 proposed
nute inquiry. for this measure. - The whole allowance to the Bar-
Sir. J. GRAHAM said that there was distinct evi- rack Masters ought to be reduced one-half, by put-
deuce given before the Committee, that though what Ling half-pay Officers into that situation. He be-
was called the public right of way had been fre- lieved the Barracks had cost this country seven or
quently invaded on the quays, yet in no instance was eight millions. It was time for them to shut their
compensation sought for. bands, even if there should be some inconvenience
Mr. THOMAS WILSON said that it certainly was in quartering soldiers in those districts which might
not made out that compensation had been ever given; be disturbed.
but at the same time he doubted not but that this Sir R. HERON protested against the unconstitu-
Bill was in opposition to certain private rights which timid system of increasing the number of Barracks
he thought ought to be maintained, though in subs in a time of profound peace.
serviency to public rights. Mr. BRIGHT said, that the erection of new Bar-
The House then divided on Mr. leosta's Clause— racks in disturbed districts was mischievous, because
Ayes 7 it contributed to keep alive the remembrance of
' Noes
Majority - - --45
On principal stake in the country were absent during
the re-admission of strangers to the gallery,
Mr. Alderman BRIDGES was proposing a clause, these lavish votes ; but other Gentlemen opposite,
came down regularly to vote for their own salaries.
%cilia' was negatived without a division.
We had no business to be a Military, but the greatest
The Bill was then passed. • of the Naval Powers, and the freest of the nations
POOH. LAWS AMENDMENT SILL.
in the world.
Mr. SCARLETT moved the Order of the Day,
Mr. M A BERLEY supported the Amendment,
for the House to resolve itself into a Committee on
and declared the Barracks for the Horse Guards
this 13111.
The House having resolved itself into a Committee, unnecessary.
Colonel DAVIES thought they ought immediately
Mr. MANSFIELD said he would take this oppor-
tunity of stating, that, so far as he could learn, the to cease from buildinf any more Barracks.
Mr. ARBUTHNOI said that Barracks were ne-
feeling of the country was entirely against this Bill.
Mr. SCARLETT said that his object was, at pre- cessary, as they were constantly obliged to move the
trodps about..
sent, to have the Bill pass the Committee, proferssa,He had never known of a farmer, or
a linen-draper, being a Barrack Master. He would
and to be printed with some amendments.
The Bill having passed through the Committee, inquire into the fact, which, if it was so, was a very
and the Report brought up and ordered to be taken abase. If the Committee refused this grant, it
t
would go to the destruction of the Barrack -Depart-
into consideration on Tuesday next,
Mr. SCARLETT said he would take the discus- meat altogether.
Mr. W. WILLIAMS objected to this system, as
sion on the question that the Speaker do leave the
he did last year, on constitutional principles. It en-
Chair on that day. couraged a wastefelexpenditure of the public money;
Mr. CALCRAFT gave notice that, on whatever
day the motion came on, he would take the sense of and unless t hey economised to the utmost farthing,
the country must be ruined. If they built Barracks
the House on the principle of the Bill. in every village in England, there would be an end
Further consideration fixed for Tuesday.
to the liberties of the land. The soldier and the
SUPPLY—MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES.
citizen ought never to be separated.
Oa the motion of Mr. AUUTHNOT, the House re-
Mr. HARBORD opposed this vote.
solved itself into a Committee of Supply.
Mr. HUME understood that there were to be no
Mr. ARBUTHNOT moved that a sum not ex-
,
be granted to his Majesty to defray new Barracks at Oldham; and if so, why was there
seeding £137,500
to be a Barrack Master and Barrack Serjeaut con-
the charges of the Barrack Department of Great
Britain. tinned there?
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, he should take care
Colonel DAVIES rose tostate his objections to the
that those persons should be discontinued.
Resolution. He considered the amount of salaries
The Committee then divided—
and allowances to Barrack Masters, which, in 1819,
Poe the Motion
amounted to £27,000, and now had risen to £29,000, Against it
to be extravagant. He contended that the duties of Majority
Barrack Masters were wholly disproportioned to their Mr. H. G. BENNETT objected t0£43,000 for the
allowances, and said that, in most cases, these Obi- expenses of the trial of the Queen. He hoped that
cers could be easily dispensed with, and their duties that disgusting proceeding would never be forgotten
left safely to be discharged by the Serjeants of Bar- or forgiven by the country. Why was not this paid
racks and Clerks of the Works. He observe] that out of the revenues of the Crown—either out of the
there were salaries running on for Barrack Masters Duchies of Cornwall or Lancaster? He was pre-
in places where it appeared, from other items, that pared to vote for making the estates of Ministers
' the Barracks were not yet finished, such as Manches- liable for the expense of that disgraceful trial. Their's
ter and Leeds, and at Paisley the money 'was not was the disgrace, and their's should be the punish-
even voted for a Barrack there. Under the head of merit by paying the expenses. He bad no security
Pensions and Allowances he noticed the cases of John that we should not have another such trial, and
Fisher and Lieutenant Wray, both of whom, after therefore he would not consent to vote a shilling on
nine years service, retired on their full salary of £BOO that account.
a-year. He next stated that there was included in Mr. A BROWNE said, a few words on the impro-
this vote a sum of £74,000 for the erection of new priety, madness, and folly, of that proceeding.
Barracks. He stated that the plan of building Bar- The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
racks arose out of the bad system which Ministers the money had been expended, and could not be re-
had adopted, of irritating, instead of soothing, the called ; and Ministers were prepared to take upon
discontents of the People. The Hon. Gentleman themselves the responsibility of the application of
proposed, as an amendment, the reduction of the sum these sums.
proposed to £59,500. Mr. HUME said, the Right Hon. Gentleman might
Mr. ARBUTHNOT said that, with respect to the well talk of his responsibility, backed as he was by
Barrack Masters employed by Government, if the such majorities. But let the Right Hon. Gentleman
gallant Officer would look to the scale of their sala- dismiss those who were paid to vote for him, he (Mr.
ries, he could not pronounce them to be too large.— Hume) would then meet him on his responsibility.
No Barrack Master had ever been appointed without It was asserted by a Noble Marquis, that if the
the necessity of his appointment baying first been charges against the Queen were not established, she
ascertained by the Comptroller of tne Barrack De- should be restored to her full rights. That pledge,
partrnent. All the vacancies that had occurred for so given by the Noble Marquis, bad been violated--
some time, had been filled up by persons upon the (No, no,• from the Ministerial Benches). He knew not
Reduced List. With regard to the sum for repairs, what this meant; the question was, whether the No-
he did not wonder at the lion. Member thinking it ble Marquis had used the words, or whether he had
large, because he had held the same opinion himself. not? He himself (Mr. Hume) heard him give the
Ile had accordingly procured all the details, and pledge, and, he repeated, it had been broken (No, no).
they were open to the inspection of the gallant Offi- Mr. BROGDEN rose to order. The Hon. Member
ter, if he thought proper. In 1814 the Barracks were should feel that he was irregular in alluding to what
capable of holding 160,000 men. They had been was said by an absent Member in a former debate.
subsequently reduced, at various periods, until they Mr. HUME was of opinion that he could refer to
now only accommodated 42,000. The greatest evils the speech of a Member when that speech had been
had been experienced by soldiers being quartered at made in another Session. However, without saying
public•houses in the disturbed districts before the where he heard the Noble Marquis use the words, he
erection of Barracks. It was at that time found ab- would assert that he himself (Mr. Hume) did hear
solutely necessary to form permanent stations for the Noble Marquis speak them in a respectable As-
troofs in those parts of the kingdom. It was not to sembly, though perhaps he was hardly warranted in
be wondered at that the poor, suffering under dis- calling it respectable !—(A laugh—cries ("Order).
tress, should be led away by the delusions of Mr. Mr. BROG DEN—" I must appeal to the Commit-
Hunt, and others whom he could name. In such a tee if the expressions of the Honourable Member are
state of things the People ought to be- protected not an aspersion upon the character of this House—
against themselves ; and it was much more wise and Wm). I need not rerat that such expressions are
humane to restrain them by the means which had exceedingly irregular.
been adopted by the Government, than to leave them Mr. BENNETT observed that he thought the
exposed to temptations which must lead them to de- Chairman was too hasty in applying his Hon. Friend's
situation. It was quite impossible for the Commit- words, for he (Mr. Bennett) had not heard him name
tee to do what the gallant Officer proposed, with this or any other Assembly. ,
regard to the allowance for new Barracks. The sum Mr. HUME. —o Sir, I can easily attribute your
contained in the Estimate for that purpose had been calling me to order to the facility with which you
granted by the House of Commons last Session. A applied my words to this House.—l never mentioned
sum of £BB,OOO was voted on account last year, the House of Commons."
and £75,000 of that now remained on hand. The Mr. BROGDEN.—" The expressions were too
Government had found, on reconsideration, that fewer pointed to be misunderstood. I thought them highly
barracks might be sufficient than were originally in- disrespectful to this House, and I therefore thought
tendei to be erected ; and, in their wishes to econo- it my duty to call the Hon. Member to order. l am'
mice, they had countermanded the orders for the in the hands of the Committee" (Hear, hear—Chair).
building of several that were at first agreed upon. Mr. HUME never meant to impugn the Chair-
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said it was a fact that, in man's motives in calling him to order. He (Mr. H.)
some cases, Barrack Masters were appointed before had said "an assembly," and the Hon. Chairman
the barracks were built—(Hear). He protested rather hastily -applied these words to the House of
against the principle of keeping the People in order Commons., With regard to the grant before the
by a perpetual Barrack Establishment; for he verily Committee, he thought not a shilling ou;ht to be
believed the People were much more orderly before voted until the most satisfactory explanations Wert,
the Barrack Establishment had grown to its present given. And seeing the Right Hon. Gentleman in his
gigantic size. place, he would now ask him, abet was become of
alr. HUME wished them to go back to the good the property left by the late King ?—(Hear, hear).—
old year of 1792, and compare the amount of Bar- Whether he had made a will, and whether that pro-
racks, which was forty-three, all in old forts and perty was to be considered of a private or a public
garrisons, and the salaries were no more for Barrack , nature? If there was any of this property, it ought
K than £4,500. At that time £lO a-year was ito be applied to defraying the expense of the late
considered. suffici:na pay for a Barrack-master; but proceedings against the Queen—Wear, heary—Then,
rases at Aberdeen and Berwick, the Barrack Maters' next to the vote for this odious proceeding, the most
bad List) each. The latter did his duty by deputy, objectionable was, that for the support of the Alien

Office--(Hear)--an establishment that cost the coun-
try £6970 annually, and was the most odious and
un-English Act that ever was passed. The expense
of the Insolvent Debtors, Court °tight also to have
been given in separate estimates. The Chancellor of
the Exchequer had talked about impeaching Minis-
ters. Every one knew what use it would be to im-
peach Ministers, with such a majority at their backs.
The expenses td. the Board of Controul were in breach
of a solemn engagement with the people. There was
also a charge for the Lieutenant-Governor of Nova
Scotia, which ought not to have been placed to the
Civil List. The Honourable Gentleman also objected
to the expenses of oar foreign Consuls and Ministers,
which he thought too large. There was also an item
for defending Governor Maxwell, to which he must
object, as an award had been given against that Go-
vernor. In all these cases a previous Estimate should
have been laid before the House. He should pro-
pose, that, instead of £280,000, the suns should be
reduced to 1:200,000.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, that Ministers were bound
to put the expenses in the form of an Estimate, wher-
ever any expense could be foreseen ; and he agreed
with the last speaker, that that course should have
been taken in many of the present expenses. But in
one case he differed from his Hon. Friend, and that
case referred us a gallant and excellent Officer ; he
meant Governor Maxwell. Upon that point he had
given an ample, and he believed perfectly satisfac-
tory, explanation in the Parliament before the last.
The case had been mistaken by his Hon. Friend, and
Mr. Cook and two other notorious Slave-traders con-
tinued the traffic after that trade had been abolished
by Act of Parliament. In the Court of Sierra Leone,
Cook bad pleaded guilty, and was sentenced to four-,
teen years transportation. But it had been subse-
quently discovered, that there was no jurisdiction in
the Court of Sierra Leone; though, had Government
sent out a Special Commission, there could have been
no doubt on the case. When in the hulks, in this
country, they pleaded, Ist, that there was no juris-
diction in the Court; and, 2dly, that they were Ame-
rican subjects. In consequence of this, these felons—
for felons they were—had been liberated ; and then
Cook brought his action against the Governor. and
recovered damages. But though the award had been
for £15,000, this man had been glad to accept of
£6OOO. • It would have been the height of injustice
to have allowed the Governor to have paid a single
hear).—ln this case the remarks of
the Hon. Gentleman could not apply.
Mr. ARBUTHNO r said that, in future, he would
take care to distinguish the different items in the Es-
timates, and place them under their proper heads.
Should the whole of the award against Governor
Maxwell be presented in the form of an Estimate, the
man whose conduct had been so justly characterized
'by the Hon. Gentleman, would not have accepted a
less sum. As to the salaries of Foreign Ministers, he
would state his full conviction that the dignity of the
station could not be supported at a less expense ; for
himself, he could.state that he had been out of pocket
several thousand pounds when he had been Ambas-
sador at a Foreign Court.
Mr. LENNARD expressed a hope that the collec-
tion of exotic plants at Kew would be thrown open
to the Public.
Mr. J. ARBUTHNOT stated that it was the inten-
tion to send the plants to the Horticultural Society,
if they had a gardener.
Mr. W. SMITH thought that the £l,OOO charged
for the garden at Kew should be paid out of the
Privy Purse.
Lord MILTON said that, as Kew was no longer
a Royal residence, the garden might be thrown open
to the Public.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT stated, that the collectors
abroad had received orders to make no additional
collections.
Dr.LUSHINGTON adverted to the presents made
to Ambassadors from abroad.

after the death of Mr. Colqnhoun, it had been 61:,.d
up by a young man.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de.
fended the appointment.
Lord MILTON said, that if this salary had beets
reduced from 1:400 to £2OO a-year (as he beard it
had been) it might be reduced to nothing.
Mr. DENMAN would withdraw his Amendment,
and vete that the sum be reduced to £200,000.
The Committee then divided • -
FIX the original Mutton
For the Amendment

- 106
- 77

-
Majority against the Amend*ent
On the motion for granting 1:10,000 for the P.
tertiary at Mfillbank,
Mr. J. SMITH objected to this Establishment al.
together, as not answering the purposes for which it
was intended, and as a plan, which, if adopted
through the country, would cost millions. lie cm.
plained also of the situation selects.' for this build.
ing, a spot below high-water mark, which must be
damp and unwholesome.
Mr. MABERLEY also opposed this grAnt:...
£400,000 had already been granted; £40,000 most
was now asked for, and on inquiry it would appear
that £550,000 had been spent on this job. The Right
Hon. Gentleman who managed this business might
laugh whilst he was riding this, his hobby, from
morning to night, but the country would not laugh,
The expense of each prisoner confined here cost the
country, for lodging only, £25 a man ; the whole
expense was £BO a man, whilst the expense ofa wee
on board the hulks to the Public was not more dun
£l7 ; and sending men out to New South Wales dig
not exceed £9 a head.

Mr. HOLFOP.D defended the establishment and
the situation selected for it.

Mr. BENNETT defended the establishment, as
cakulated to reform the young offender, and tote
store him to society. Unfortunately, however, da
enormous expense which• had been incurred in the
erection of this building, had turned the attentioncf
the country from its merits.
Mr. J. SMITH repeated his objections to this gmei
Sir C. LONG defended the conduct of his Hon.
Friend who had the management of this Establia.
meat, and who had been accused of riding his hobby
from morning to night. But what hobby was it ha
Hon. Friend had been taunted with riding? why, it
was the hobby of humanity. His labour., had beat
directed to reforming the most abandoned of society,
and the Public at large were tinder great obligatioes
to him. As to the expense of this Establishment,he
hoped this would be the last vote but one that would
be .required on account of it. Another vote of
£l/,000 or £14,000 would, he believed, templet
the building.
Mr. MA BERLEY repeated his arguments ageing
the measure.
Mr. GIPPS and Mr. HARBORD defended the
Establishment, but complained of the lavish expel.
diture which had attended its erection.
Dr. LUSHINGTON was in favour of the system,
and reminded the Committee that this was an expe-
riment ; and, like other experiments, was attended
with extraordinary expense,—The vote was agreed to.
Mr. IRVING then moved a Resolution for grant-
ing to his Majesty 4.:20,0r0, to be paid to General
Desfourneaux, as compensation for losses sustained
by him at the capture of Guadaloupe, in 179 t.
Mr. P. MOORE observed, that it was now past
twelve o'clock. The Committee had been sitting se-
veral hours, and he would now move that the Char-
man report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
Some conversation took place between Mr.htinm,
the CHA XCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, and others, upoa
this question; but the Hon. Member for Coventry
persisting in his motion, the CHAIRMAN reported pro-
gress, and obtained leave no sit again on Wednesday.
On a motion for the production of certain Papas
relative to the expense of Government Advertnemenn
in the Irish Papers,
Mr. HUME asked how it happened that Papera
a certain party in England, as well as Ireland (Th
rinses, for instance), had not for some time pasting
any share of Public Advertisements? He wished*
be informed whether the Treasury had given all
orders on the subject?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Mit
the Treasury gave no orders on the subject. Eat
Board selected its own Papers for Advertmensais
Mr. HUME said, it was then a very strange coy
cidence that every Office should have passedover the
Paper to which he had alluded.
The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the Rows
adjourned as One o'clock.

Mr. ARBUI'IINOT said, it was an invariable
custom to make certain presents to Foreign Ambas-
sadors; and rattled according to the difference oft
diplomatic rank.
SirINEWPORT said, that presents to the amount
of £ll,OOO had been made to the Persian Ambassador.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT stated, that formerly presents
to the amount of £26,000 had been made to an Am-
bassador from Persia; but his Noble Friend at the
head of the Foreign Department, had reduced them
to 1:11,000.
_ _ _

Mr. DENMAN said, that the Estimate of last year
bad been £300,000, but £50,000 of that had been
for the expense of the proceedings against the Queen,
which should be struck off from the present Vote, as
it was not likely these proceedings would be repeated.
But of the £300,000 voted last year, only £15,000
had been expended. He should beg leave to amend
the Amendment, and move that £145,000 should be
the amount of the Vote.

DRURY-LANE.—MISS KELLY had her Benefit here
last night. The appearance of the House mast hoe
been grateful to her feelings, though not more that
a just tribute to her talents. It overflowed with fedi
and fashion. So splendid a coup deed has not bets
witnessed .in the present season. The QUEEN now
pectedly honoured it with her presence. It wasn't
generally known in the House until the end of tbe
second Act. There was then a loud call for " 170
Queen !—The Queen .1" Her MAJESTY, attended bl
Lord and Lady HOOD, occupied the second box frog
the Stave on the right hand, in the first tier overdo
dress circle, exactly opposite the ktxo's box. ne
call for the QUEEN passed without notice. At the
end of the third Act it was renewed with incte?gd
ardour, along with a cry for " GOD save the kV
Her MAJESTY, who sat behind the trellis-work of the
box, now presented herself for the first time, 33a
bowed repeatedly to the audience. She was &soli
in white, with a scarf and hat and feathers, and 101 l
remarkably well. The various performers eogag
in the representation of the Play then came forwar",
and sung the national Anthem, the whole 11°u..
standing, many joining in chorus, and some sotst
tilting the QUERN for the KING. The Play, AD'
Stroke for a Husband, then proceeded to its coneo.
sion, shortly before which her Marisry withdre°_,'
unperceived by the audience. Miss KELLY,
played Olivia with great spirit, at the close of .11*
last scene expressed her gratitude by curts34
most gracefully to the audience, and seemed tell
much Affected by their loud and enthusiastic
mations. The Play was followed by a Concert, o:
troducing a grand variety of beautiful airs, esecota
by Mr. BRAHAU, Madame VEsTRIS Miss 11/41
&c. The Farce of The Romp, in which the pot_
Priscilla Tomboy was admirably suAmiird by 31.41.,
eti iCEteLrLtyainfmorentltsarofifrstthetinnlieg,hct. concluded
v,
ed?:4;d:lentshttol
with extraordinary eclat.

Mr. ARBUTHNOT said, that out of the £300,000,
£BO,OOO would be accounted for in the Miscellaneous
Estimates. He had in fact proposed £45,000 less
than last year.
Lord MILTON complained that the Treaty at
Frankfort, which fixed the limits of the different States
of Germany, had not been laid before the House.
Mr. ROBINSON said, that this country had be-
come a party to that Treaty, from its connection
with the Continental Powers.
Sir J. NEWPORT asked, if there was any objec-
tion to lay this Treaty before the House?
Mr. ROBINSON could not see any objection to
the pt oduction of the Treaty.
Mr. BENNETT contended, that the vote should
be reduced, as many of the expenses could not again
occur; he thought the allowance of £154,000 ex-
tremely liberal.
Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the expenses of Mi-
nisters increased in proportion to the largeness of the
rant; and the applications to them for money would
increase the more of it they had at their command.
Mr. ARBUTHNOT wished the Hon. Gentleman
would point out the reductions he thought practica-
ble, instead of indulging in declamation.
Mr. HUME objected to the appointment of Mr. C.
Bathurst as successor to the late Mr. Colquhoun,
which office, he thought, should have been abolished.
Mr. BATHURST said, that the office must be filled
up by Act of Parliament. He knew nothing of the
appointment till after it had taken place.
Mr. HUME said, that a Committee of the House
had recommended the abolition of the place, upon the
death of Mr. Colquhoun. But in the course of a week

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