Star.
London, England, 1817-02-18 00:00:00

CONVICTS UNDIR tENTILKCE OP DEATII.

Mr. BENNEFT stated, that he had -last year-
called the attention of the House to the state of the
convicts under sentence of death in Newgate. On
that occasion he had had to complain of the delay
which took place between passing sentence on these
unfortunate persons, said subsequently reporting their
cases to the Prince Regent. On a late visit to Ne.v.
gate he taw in the condemned cells (fifteen in num-
ber), which a►e only calculated to hold three each,
73 men and 15 women—(Hear, hear). —Three Ses-
sions had now passed away without a report of the
cases being made to the Prince Regent, and a fourth
Session would commence on Wednesday next.
delay, so fatal to the effect of public justice, ought
to be avoided. The Honourable Gentleman ani-
madverted upon the tardiness in some parts of the
administration of justice, except where political feel-
ings prevailed, and expressed his astonisbnient that
the Lord Chancellor had not executed hit duty in
this respect, by speedily laying before the Pa ince Re-
gent the cases is! those unfortunate perstins7 The
great object of punishment was the diffusion of ex-
ample; and haw was it to be produced in this plan-
ner ? Possibly out one out of the thousands who took
a cruel delight in attending the spectacle of execu-
tions, knew the crime which the sufferer was expiating
with his life. No wonder then that the example of
executions had wholly failed, and that they became
nothing else than the pastime of the idle and the dis-
solute. He hoped some satisfactory reason would
be assigned for the continuance of the delay to which
he had alluded, and of which he had complained
early in the last year. The Honourable Gentleman
concluded by moving—
.. For a Return of the number of Persons now under sentence
of death in Newtate, speeifyingthe crimes of whkh they were
convicted, and the nspective dates of their convictiun.."
Lord CASTLk.ItEAGH hoped that he would be
excused in observing, that the Honourable Gentle-
man's object was rather to make his speech than to
obtain the information for which he appareitly
sought. If his object were information, why not ob-
tain it by inquiring in the regular shape of uotice of
a motion ? He (Lord Castlereagh) could not avoid
saying, that he never heard a more inflammatory
speech, or one which tended to create a feeling. that
the administration of justice was not properly attend-
ed to, or suitably watched by the highest legal advi-
ser of the Crown. It was impossible to conceive
a charge more unfounded than that which placed a
culpable delay at the door of the Noble Lord at the
head of the administration of justice. (Rear, hear !)
'there never was a character whose conduct stood
more high and unimpeachable in the discharge of his
arduous duties. (Hear!) Had the Honourable
Member proceeded in hie inquiries (however laudable
they may be) in a proper manner, he should have
known that no delay was attributable to the* Noble
Lord alluded to. Had he even in his observations
dealt with that Noble Personage in the qualified way
of assumed imputation, instead of direct charge,
some sort of consideration might be given to his
view of an subject. It was well known that the
Report was always made out by the Recorder of
London, and then transmitted to the Lord Chancel-
lor, who could not of course act upon it, until it
reached hill according to the usual form. He hoped
that when the Honourable Gentleman bad a talli-to
tell again, be would precede his. motion by a notice,
to enable those whom he addressed tozynacure. the
'necessary information which he sought„Linsteidof
idly declaiming with groundless assertions against
those at the head of the Administration of the Law.,
(Hear, hear I)
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL could state fibm,
his own personal knowledge, the reason why thaJß.e-
-port was not in a more advanced. itate-ot,prepisa-
tion. Indeed the very number talked aafr.by the-
Hooourable Member, was in itself a full answer to
the charge, for it evidently chewed the inapdssibility,
without considerable delay,of examining well into the
cases of such a number of persona. The business of
the Criminal Cuomo had-of late years'accumulated
vastly. He (the Attorney-General) remember.cd wfton
the Judges CAM to the Old Bailey from Westtninster
Hall on Wednesdayi and the whole bowing* was
over before Saturday, • while now the Court sat
from morning to night for a fortnight together.—
The Honourable and Learned Gentleman described
the scrupulous attention that was invariably paid to
the scrutiny and examination of the cases of convicts
under sentence of death. It was not generally known
that the Recorder was bound to make the 'fullest in-
quiry into the character of witnesses, and into every
thing relative to the past trials of those under sen-
tence. In a conversation with the Recorder a few
days ago, he (the Attorney-General) heard him ex-
press his regret that he was unable, from the mass of
business before him, to get through with the reports,
nearly thus score of which still remained unfinished.'
I'ho delay, therefore, was solely attributable to the
immense mass of business before the Court.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY regretted that his Honoura-
ble Friend (Mr. Bennett) had cast any imputation
upon the Noble Lord at the head of tke Administra-
tion of the Law, for he was the last man who would
be tardy in the discharge of a duty which would some-
times authorise him to recommend the sufferers to the
merciful consideration of the Throne. (Y/ear, hear.)
Mr. A BERCROMBY thought that the Honour.
able and Learned Gentleman's statement of the great
accumulation of business quite sufficient to show the
necessity of some regulation in the office alluded to,
as well as in the mode of apportioning punishments.
Mr. BENNETT replied, and disavowed any in-
tention of undervaluing the merits or integrity of the
Noble Lord at the head of the' Administration of
Justice. He could, however, see no reason why the
reports of convicts should be allowed thus to fall in
arrear to the great injury of the patties themselves,
and the total defeat of the great object of punishment.
In introducing this motion lie had no apology to
make, he did it from a sense of duty, and would never
be deterred either by the complaints or censures of
the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) from doint what he
conceived to be his duty to the public.—(Hear,/oar.)
The motioo was then agreed to.
NAVY ISTIMATI&
The House having resolved itself into a Commit.
mittee of Supply,
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER rose for the per-

pose of proposing the VOW of Supply for the til'a%
the next half year. The number of seamen on
establishment this year was 13,000 and 6000 mar;
The estimate had been formed after a cArefal rt‘
of each head of the espzaditure. A diminution to
considerable amount had been made on the erne,
-of-each tn.in. Last year the estimate was-Rtil.s
per man per month ; whereas this ye it it way I
RG Gs..,per man per month. He then moved h;s
resniotien, " That it i, expedient for the sonic-rot 11
beajesey that 19,M0men be employed in the sta •
vice (includ:n-i; et,o44t) marines) fot the six '
=lulls, from 4st January, 1817."

Mr. i'IERNEY said that he hoped the estiniat
it 3 G 4. per man per month had been formed on
recr data, for it had Ilan:wiled in some int M"T
when a reduce ion was in 'de in the estimate, that
House had been called upon afterwards to vote 37
sum to mike op the arrears.
Sir. G. WA It RENDER observd, that the
mates had been made on the must minute
tion of every item.

Mr. TIIL-RNEY, with respect to the making
of estimates for the public service, took this
nity of saying, that he wished they could be
up more expeditiously. The Committee to imqp,
into the reduction of officers and salaries, had not
been able to do one single stroke of work, un
count of the delay in making up the Estimat
he had this day received a note, to say that tl
►nittee would not meet till next Wednesd iy,
the Estimates could not be reAdy betort that
The Resolution was then agreed to.
Resolutions were then agreed to, ruing the fol.
lowing sums:
For Seamen's Wages, 13,000 men, for .4 months ,c2ir
For Victualling, for ■ix months
For Wear and rear of Skips
Fur Ordnance for Sea Service -

253;1

The Report of the Commtttee was ordered to be
ceived tamrtiorroW.
WAR SALARY OF THE SICF.RTARIES OF TIII
ADMIRALTY.
As soon as the House resumed—

Lord MILTON rose, pursuant to notice, to sub-
mit a Modell to the House on the increase mad- to
the Salaries of the.SPecretaries of the Admiralty in
,loaaequenee of the War • with Algiers. Diff i•srt
persons viewed the same thing in very .;rifcrent
lights, and acted very differently in the &two! circus .
stances. The subject which he was ab-ut to bring
undet the consideration of the House gait a sti;king
illustration of this truth. In the view of the Vino!
Regent, who 'must have known the state of Cie
country, who had expressed in his Speech from :"e
Throne his sympathy with its sufferings, it was hi-
homing under such a pressure of distress and err-
harassment as required from him the surrender of
the fifth part of his income. A Noble Marquis, who
had followed this bright example, must have enter-
tained the same idea of the accumulated distresses of
the times, as he evinced the same desire of conttibut-
ing to their relief. That Noble Lord had surrendered,
at the cal of suffering, the welt-earned reward of his
father's services; he had given up what the country
Thad conferred upon his father for the benefit of Li.
'family, in consideration of his labours and sacrifices.
This example so nobly yet, and so laudably followed,
had nut been without its influence on °viers, wbo
proposed reductions of their income, and offered their
contributions for the general relief. But while the
Prince Relient, the Noble Marquis, and others, con-
ceived the country was in such a state of distress, as
requited them to surrender what they were plainly
entitled to enjoy, to sacrifice to public opinion and
public coffering what they had a right to retain, what
"was' their-just and admitted income; at that very mo-
ment., and in tlfrise very circumstances, a Gentlemen
in Office had:such. a view of the state of the nation,
that be not.only was disposed to make no sacrifices
for its relief, but seized the opportunity of ad-
ding to its burdens, by claiming 411 increase of his
salary,—(Hear, hear.)-:—While others were sumo-
desing their ..rights„ the Secretary to the Admiralty
was adding to: his emoluments.—(Hear, hear.)—
There•cowld heno better illustration, as he had said,
of the different lights in which different individuals
view the same things. The Noble Lord went over
thoicircunistarices of the events which led to the in-
crease of the salary.of the Secretaries of the Admi-
ralty. In the simmer of 1816, in consequence of as
Expedition sent to Algiers, this country was declared
by the Admiralty in a state of war, and an order
was issued to increase the salary of the Secretaries-
This was done with a reference to an order in Cow
cif of 1800, which, in consideration of the inert:
duties of the Secretaries of the Admiralty in time
' war, allowed them an increase of salar3. The
dition on which this right to additi,..nal emolto
rested, was a state of war, and the incre4sed
' consequent upon it. Was the country in a st.
war during the quarter of last summer, when
salary was raised, so as to justify the increase
This he (Lord Milton) thought could not be
out ; and he would thew that there was no go
for believing it. The Order in Couticil repo.
,the war and peace salaries could rot colter:.;
such a state of things as the war on which it
the increase. Any one who read Lord tamer
dispatches would see that the expedition comd
called a war. There was no declaration of
(a circumstance on Much he did not very much r
there were no letters of marque issued, no order
capture and Rep isals given—in sheet, there secret
of those circumstances which attend and characte
a v e —(!fear, /tear).—Lord Earnouth went oul
Algiers in the druble capacity of a tiegoct.itor ar
naval commander : he had inso ueotois tw t'
effect of negociation, or to compel obedielice to
nand of satisfaction. Wh.t di.l the Noble Lori
in his dispatch conveying an account of his vul
and of the success of his negotiation ? He WOK
Thtis has a war of two days' existence termir
in obtaining all the ohjects anticipated." How
then was the war? Only two days.—(l-!ear,
--A quarter's salary on the war establishment
claimed for a war said to be of two days' dur,
by the Commander who conducted it.—(Heard
This was something so monstrous, that he cow
conceive how the ideit'of, it could enter into the
of any man who had any regard to comma('
or any respect for cr-m:non opinion. How wa
bterereteay of the Admiralty ? It was dated fresfr this war made out in the calculation of
order given to the Admiralty to fit out Allexpedei
hot an expedition might be fitted out while there
uu w s. lu 1001 an expedition was sent aliahgl

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l•hotigh we were not in a state of hostility
Pritrqh:t Power. If the commencement of this Al-
„r wear
was difficult to be settled, and had been
tl..d wrong, its termination was no less curious:
pro dated from the reception of the treaty at the
A in,,ealr r.—(l/ear.hear).—These dates of the fitting
ii 4 exarhtion, and the arrival of the treaty-in
j;rat.,;., rii4!!t tally wi.h the duration of the salary;
bt v•Ai ectill not be :aid to , constitute the com.l
ip:., ettt,rr ard the tertninrtion of a war, during the
htia:c ,c nt which a war salary could be claimed.-
vrar did out continue till negociatious were cat-
:(rJ on at home, or till the treaty made was sane.
*lied by the Government of this country ; it ended
$5 soon as the Der had consented to yield to the
toms ei.!, which Lord Egmont!) was instructed to
ainti his compliance. and that was on the day
cquent to the victory. But taking it that the Se-
cretaries of the Admiralty were entitled to war sale-
ti, on this occasion, these were other officers in-
cluded in the provisions of the order of council which
rgulated their allowance, and they likewise should
tire received augmented pay. If any one was thus
lesell'3l for Additional duty, all should be rewarded,
ciiicrv.ase the measure was partial, and shewed undue
Om. The Master shipwrights, and the Master
carpenters, he ( Lad Milton) had been told, were on
ix footing of war and peace allowance. If this was
tlacale, the order in Council allowed an increase of
.awry to them duriog war, and if they had not now
received it. while the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Doter) had, what would the country say—what,
would it think of that.kind of justice that would al-
low an increased salary to a public servant, because
to was a Member of Parliament, while it withheld
the increase from others, equally' entitled, because
powerful, and nut so great tavourites ?—(Hear,
Lat.) He (Lord Milton) was ignorant of the fact,
but he hoped the Honourable Gentleman would give
tim complete information; he hoped that he would
ft, able to shew that all were treated alike ; for he
(Mr. Croker) would feel that he incumbered him.
mit with a heavy weight of suspicion and respon-
sibility, if he advised a measure of remuneration
to himself which he did not to others, who were en-
titled to the benefit of the same regulation—(Hear.)
The magnitude of the sum was not the ream:ashy
he called the attention of Parliament to the subject :
did so because be wished the House to redeemit-
rr.. with the country, and to merit its confidence—
! itur, leer).—A call for retrenchment had been
rc..t.lL en ail ranks of men, from the, Prince to the
-earat : would the House be, deaf to the call so
la.iii.imou4 and strongly expressed ?,—(Hear).—lt
it 'cglected this call, the public distress might lead
to in:Jlic discontent ; and all
.confidence in the Re-
przseatztives of the People would vanish. Parlia.
;ant, in viewing the expenditure of the public mo-
ney, ought, if he might so express himself, to have
a microscopic eye. especially when that expenditure
was connected with one of its own Members. What
%avid the country think in seeing Government des.
charge porters, workmen, and clerks from the public
ofEces, while it increased the salaries of those who
had influence and power? The circumstance of the'
Secretary being a Member of Parliament. made it
imperative on the House to watch witlfmere vigilance
over transactions like the presein. What had the
Honourable Ceendentan done for his augmented se- I
lay—where were his services—what were his in-1
mod duties ? Did his increased trouble and la-,
beer deserve such additional reward ?—(Her)
Did the Government of 1800 contemplate an expe-
ttion against a petty State, not admitted into the
riot of civilized nations, u sufficient to authorize the
Secretary of the Admiralty to consider this Empire
in a state of war, which would entitle him to a war
salary Was every insulated and partial armament
to be consideed as the war meant in the Order in
Council of that date ? Here there was no correspon-
dence to be carried on with foreign parts; no diffi-
cult arrangements to be made ; no co-operation to be
Islamised. The war meant in the Order in Council
mist have had something of a general character, and
could not allude to a single, partial, and insulated ex-
pedition. If such was the case, the public had been
such deceived, as was likewise the Navy Pay Office.
(Hear, hear.) The Navy Pay Office, not thinking
that the attack on Algiers constituted this country in
a state of war within the meaning of the Order of
1800, refused to pay the war salary till they had con-
salted with the Admiralty. -This Board accordingly
asked, 4, Are we at war Oh, yes !" replied the
Admiralty : 44 we have been in great and dangerous
war, therefore pay the Secretaries their war salary."
The Navy Office, by the question, clearly thought
that there was no title made out to an increase of emu.
laments on account of the expedition to Algiers. The
union duration of the war, even according to the
Admiral, was two days, which, according to the rate
((increase would have entitled the 'Honourable Se-
cretary tctive pounds three shilfiage and aim Noce. instead
of a quarter's allowance!--(4hug*, and Hear, hear.)
It tiniest hace happened, that Lord Exmouth might
have found the Dey ready to comply with the de-
mands of the British Government without coming to
extremities ; and what would have been the situation
of the Secretary then ? He must have written all his
ntspatches, he must have undergone all his fatigues.
he must have carried on all kis war correspondence
ire nothing. There would have been no war, nor
any additional allowance. Was, therefore, the bom-
bardment of Algiers, which gave him no additional
trouble, and which lasted only a few hours, to make
that a period of war from the fitting out of the axpe-
!Mien to the arrival of the dispatches, which would
si.sit have been a war otherwise ? While it gave no la-
bour was it to be productive of emolunient ? and was
I:le Honourable Gentleman to cheat the country, and
obtain, under false pietences a salary which he did
n't Merit by his exertions i—(Hear,,hear.) Alter
what had passed last year he (Lord Milton) did not
needle that the Honourable Gentleman would have
provoked the present discussion, or obtruded binise)f
Ipin on public notice. Whatever others might do, he
%I not think that be would have made the demand of
the salary or challenged the votes of the House in its
PPort. In last session the majority was so small in his
4"11r, that the Noble Lord (Castlereagh). came
Vvaarnent,s and out of a decent regard to the sense of
'oll gave up, in his same, the war salary.
In was done at the hint of Parliament, and the
Anourable Gentleman himself cook the credit of the
act' He (Lord Milton) hoped the House of Com-
-I"ns would compel him 'to surrender, and mild re-
-444 the credit of retesting from him that.° which be

was not entitled. ile hoped it would shew hint, that
while many were sacrificing what they had A right to
enjoy, he would not be the only person allowed to
prey upon the distresses of the country, and to increase
his emoluments at a time when the Prince Regent
was reducing his. A lesson should now be read to
him that he would never forget. (Hear.) The na-
tion called upon Parliament for economy. They did
not do so without just cause. They had trusted in
Government, and they had reason to suspect its
sincerity and good faith ; and they therefore called
upon the House to protect them from the extra-
vagance of the Administration—agalbst that sys-
tem of favouritism which would he the bane and
the destruction of any count:), —(!fear, , hear). —lf
there was now something dome for the country,
in the way of reducing their burdens and protect-
ing their interests, it would be a better answer to
the Reformers than all the speeches of the Right
Honourable Gentleman ( Mr. Canning ) , who did not
think Reform necessary, and who used the extraor-
dinary phrase that the House was as " perfect a re-
presentation of the people as it needed to be." He
(Lurd Milton) did not see any limits to the perfection
of the representation, and thought it was never as
perfect as it needed to be, unless it was as perfect as
it could be. The influence of the Crown had in-
creased, both within the walls of Parliament and with.
out, and should, both in doors and out of doors, be'
reduced. If it was not lessened in time of peace,
there was no chance that it would be lessened at all.
He bogged pardon, however, for wandering from the
subject into the question of Parliamentary Reform ;
and could only plead as his apology, that Parliamen-
tary Reform, when it came across his mind, touched
so powerful a chord, that it vibrated for some time
without his commit. The best reform was a reform
of the House itself, shewn in controuling expendi-
ture, and watching the general interests of the people
—(Hear, hear).—On these ground. be would submit
to the House a Motion, that the issue of war salaries
to the Secretaries of the Admiralty, and other officers,
to consideration of the eipedition to Algiers, was Ito-
called for, and therefore. an improper application of
the public money.
The question being read from the Chair
Mr. CROKER rose to defend himself from the'
charges of the Noble Lord, and hoped, in doing so, ,
be should. experience the same candour and .inJul-
gence which had been extended to an Honourable;
and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) in a for-
suer part of the evening. He ( Mr. Croker) from the.
estate of the accusation, had a claim upon attention
while he replied to it. The Noble Lord had called
him every thing which a Gentleman ought not to be,
And accused him not only of being gieedy and rapa-
cious, but of engaging in a transaction which affected
the emoluments ot others solely for himself-(liter.)
He was far from deoying his personal interference in
the act complained of. He had made the demand
of the war salary because he thought it a matter of
right, (Hear, hear)—because be thought it due to the
office he held.—(Hear, hear.) The sum itself was so
paltry, (Hear and laughing) that he could not be sup.
posed as-being influenced by any motives in demand-
ing it, but a desire to enjoy his right. Had he con-
sented to surrender the 8290 in August last, out of
regard to the distresses of the country, it would have
been said, s‘ You give nothing—you only abstain'
from demanding what you have no right to enjoy."
ieegh.)—He was as ready as the Noble Lord who
accused him, or as a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Poosonby) below him, who had so honourably to him-
self offered to give up what he so well earned, to contri-
bute to relieve the national distress by personal uteri& ,
ces. He could place himself on 'a level with them both,
in the promptitude and extent of his contributions ;
but he would not consent to withdraw his claim from
what belonged to him. He wished first to establish
his right ; and after he had done so, lie would give
what he thought proper in his circumstances, or
what the necessity of the times demanded. He would
not enter into the question of war as discussed by the
Noble Lord. The issue of letters of marque, or the
open declaration of hostilities, were not in the present
mode of warfare the criterion of wars. The State of
Algiers was not commercial, and consequently the
issue of letters of marque 'and reprisal would have
been useless. He denied that the expedition was fitted
out for negotiation. The Algerines had given to this
country just provocation, and imposed upon his Royal
Highness the necessity of declaring hostilities, except
immediate submission followed our demands of repa-
ration and security. Lord Exmouth went out accor-
dingly with a treaty already framed, and offered the
Der only the alternative of yielding to our arms, or
accepting its conditions. But, said the Noble Lord,
suppose the Dey had submitted without fighting, and
agreed to sign the treaty, hostilities would not have
followed, and the Secretaries could not have claimed
the war salary. He (Mr. Croker) admitted this to
its full extent; if war had not followed, he would
not have claimed the addition (a laugh) ; but the ques-
tion was not to be determined by that of peace or war.
The Honourable Secretary read the Order of Coun-
cil which regulated the salaries, and contended, that
as the war salary was to be a compensatiou for the
additional trouble attendant on fitting out an expedi-
tion, and likewise a commutation of the perquisites
that war produces, he was fully entitled to it when
war followed. The last war with France was a war
of only one day : the whole campaign was terminated
in one day. The Noble Lord had said, that he con-
sidered there were other persons in the Dock-yards
who had war and peace salaries : but the fact was,
that the Secretaries of the Admiralty were the only
persons on war and peace salaries.—es I have only to
say," added the Honourable Gentleman, " that I
*ever demanded this increase of salary as a favour,
but as a pure right. As a favour I would not have
received it; but I thought it due to the of to
Which I belonged to demand it as a right, and I do
toot think that, in justice to my successors, I could
have refrained from making that claim. I hope,
that whatever the Noble Lord may think of this mate
ter, the House will not consider he has a right to in-
vestigate the motives of my private conduct. There'
are tfiose in this House who will view the subject in
its proper light, and who will feel with me, that if I
had noes clear right I should never have made the
demand. I will so more, that if the business had
not been completed before the tisane eclay. ,I am not,
sure that I would not so far have gratified nay per-
song fedings as not to have made the demand (Near.)
should not merely have thought that the occasion
presented itself, withon considering what was due,

to my own O'_ slings. Does any dentieman think
that I supposed the Noble Lozd. of any other person,
would not have taken notice of this ? Was there any
crec whatever in any part of the transaction ? I
perfectly aware when I took it, that I should
trove to explain the grounds on which I took it ; and
I repeat, I thought it a duty to make that dernind.
It is a question merely of pure right. It c:rtainly
,toes not become me to speak of the manner in which
I fulfil the duties of my office; but I may he allowed
to say, that. 1 fulfil them to the best of my ability :
and as to this increase of salary, I made the demand in
a way from which I never thought, till to-night, that
any body would impute to me unworthy motives."
Mr. CALCRAFT thought, after what the Ho- '
nourable Gentleman had said7-namely, that if hoiti-
Hoes had not taken place, he should not have consi-
dered himself entitled to claim that salary--that he
might as well conclude the debate, and compound
the matter with the Noble Lord. Let the Honour.
able Gentleman pocket his five pounds three shillings,
and there is an end of the matter--(Hear,
It must be admitted, however. that the chief blame
of this pettifogging transaction rested with the Lords
of the Admiralty. The sum itself was small in
amount, but great and important with reference to
the sufferings of the people. When the demand
was first started, the Navy Board were so completely
in doubt about it, that they applied to the Admi-
ralty to know whether we were at peace or war?—
The Lords of the Admiralty, who knew what our
actual situation was, should immediately have put
their Veto on so ungracious a demand, and have re-
fused a salary which placed a subordinate Board in
doubt whether it could be allowed or not. Lord
Exmouth went out with a treaty in his hand, and in
case the treaty was not accepted war was to take
place. The treaty was refused, and in consequence.
a war was commenced, which was concluded in two
days. The only claim, therefore, which the Admi-
ralty should have admitted was during that short
period in which hostilities were waged. It they had
done so, then, with all the anxiety and delicacy of
the Honourable Gentleman for the precedent, and
for the benefit of his successors, when he was told
that the increase of salary would amount to no more
than five pounds three shillings, his susceptibility
would have ceased, and the House would not have
been occupied on this very frivolous and paltry dis-
cussion.—(Hiter,lasar.)—He thanked the Honourable
Gentleman for his cheers; but the question lay in so,
narrow a compass, and the Honourable Geatteman
had so completely stated himself out of count, that
be was at a loss what farther to say on this subject.
He remembered the attempts to increase the salaries
on the orders in Council, and he supposed the Hon.
Gentleman thought this a fit opportunity to shew,
that he would take the earliest occasion to recover
'that which the House of Commons had deprived
him of But what were the reels merits of the
case ? Ought not the' Honourable Gentleman to
refund all above the two days?—(Hear, hear.)—
The Order in Council stated, that the salary of the
First Secretary should be fixed at £3,O(X) in time of
peace, with an additional salary of £l,OOO in time of
war : but what was a time of war, according to the
spirit of that order ? It was not the mere firing of shot
fur which an increase of salary was to be given ; it
was the additional trouble that ought to entitle him
to the additional remuneration. Now, what addi-
tional trouble had the Honourable Gentleman expo.
rienced in fitting out the expedition to Algiers ? What
additional ships were put into commission for that
enterprise? He believed none beyond the peace esta-
blishment ; and this was enough to shew, that the
Honourable Gentleman did not understand the orders
in Council od which he had claimed this additional
salary. Hostilities lasted only two days ; and all be
could claim was the difference between what lie re-
ceived, and a remuneration for those two days.—
(Hear. hear.)—The Lordkof the Admiralty had a.
great deal to answer for to the country, for promising
to the Honourable Gentleman the full war salary.
Little (Ile repeated) as it was in amount, and titian-
portant as it was in the whole, in money, it wasmost
material in point of principles, and not only chewed a
contempt for the feelings of the people, but a total
disregard to what had passed in the proceedings of
'that House.—(Hear, hear.)
Sir JOSEPH YORKL said, the question to be
decided was extremely simple. The salary of the
first Secretary was fixed at £3,000 per annum during
peace, with an additional isl,ooo in time of war;
the salary of the second Secretary was £1,500 in
peace,- and £2,000 in war. Ai to the Commissioners
of the Navy, they had only asked at what time the
war salary should commence? He (Sir Joseph) con-
fessed that he had no sort of regret in signing the
paper for the increase, and should do the same sort
of thing if the paper were again put before him. In
a private case any individual would have had a right
to go before a court of justice to enforce the demand.
The policy of making the demand certainly lay with
his Honourable Friend—(Hear, hear)—but it was a
matter of right in the Lords of the Admiralty to
grant it.
Mr. JONES said, the only question was, whether
we were or were not in a state of hostilities? It had
been urged that we were not at war, because the
Noble Admiral was sent out to negociate : but from
the moment the massacre at Bona took place, the
Der of Algiers was required to deliver up all. the
slates, or his city would be bombarded. He thought
the Honourable Secretary, therefore, was entitled to
the war salary; and he was sorry that his Majesty's
Ministers had come forward to say, that they inten-
ded to make any sacrifice of their income. He thought
that public men were by no means overpaid ; and it
they yielded to the theoretical and wild opinions of
demagogues, it would only be said that their libe-
rality was wrung from them.
Sir G. HOPM observed, we must not consider that
the war lasted two days only ; for, if Lord Exuaonth
had met with any of the ,AJgaines at sea, he would
have felt it his duty to attack them.
Admiral MARKHAM said, after all he had heard
on the subject, his opinion remained unaltered, that
the Honourable Secretary was not entitled to the war
salary. If this was to be called a state of war, what
was to be called an armament ? An expedition might
be composed not of ships of the line, and sent to some
of the small forts on the coast of Africa, and this was
to be considered a state of war. An armament dies
not include a state of war. There was a Spanish
armament, which was in one respect similar to that
sent to Algiers, because the Dey had made aggres-j

sioni . but be supposed, if the Orders in Council had
existed then. the Honourable Secretary would have
demanded an additional salary. It was obvious,
however, that the expedition required no additional
trouble : there was nothing to be completed but the
Armament. The Lords of the Admiralty would have
done much better if they had promoted the officers
commanded bombs, Which had been the prac-
tice on former occasions. Neither the House nor the
country would have quarrelled with them for reward-
ing the services of those officers in the way they
merited : but it was impossible to approve of their
conduct in granting an additional salary to their Sea
cretarie•. for a war Which lasted only two days.
Mr. TI ERNEY would detain the if ,use a very
;lon dine, and should confine his observations more
to the principle of this transaction than to the amount
of the sum. It was a subject that required no amplt-
ficition, but he was persuaded that it would create
more disgust in the country, and produce a more ge-
neral dissatisfaction, than a sum of ten times the
amount. The Honourable Gentleman had said, he
demanded this increase of salary as a matter of right.
Now, if that point could be established, he should
say that no blame could be attached to him. But in
what manner could this right be established The
Lords of the Admiralty thought, that the orders in
Council should be considered like a penal statute.
which was to be construed strictly ; but Le denied
that an order in Council was to be so construed. The
order in question only enabl-d the Lord!. of •h' Ad-
miralty to give se3ooo to the first Secret:ay darin3
peace, and an additional irlOtX) in time of war ; but
this order Was not imperative on them—it wis a ois-
cretion which they were bound to exercise for the
benefit of the country.—(Near, hear.) O.; the '2oth of
November. when we were at peace with all the world,
Mr. CROKER—" That is a subsequent Order in
Council."

Mr. TIERNEY—co Then the paper returned to
the House is wrong."
Mr. CROKER—" There was an Order in Council
which was revoked."

Mr. TIERNEY.••••" Then the Navy Board butte
acted most extraordinarily in the return to us. I have
here an extract from an Order of Council in 1813, by
which the salary of the First Secretary was fixed at
83,000 per annum in peace, and a further salary of
&LOW during war. , This is the only Order in Coun-
cil which the Navy iipard had before them. Then
the Lords of the Admiralty refer to the Order in
Council of 1800, which was framed by Lord Melville
and the two other Lords opposite. The Lords of the
Admiralty," continued Mr. Tierney, must necessa-
rily have a discretion. Did they want a new Order
to reduce the salary ? No: they wooed an Order t 3
raise, but not to reduce it. The salary af the Secre-
tary was limited to a certain sum; hut h remained
for the Admiralty to exercise a sound discretion whe-
ther the whole of it should be paid. The House
granted to his Majesty a sum of money not exceeding
so much ; but it was not absolutely necessary that the
whole of that money should be expended by Govern-
ment : they were to save every thing they. could, and
to account to the House for the difference. Now
what was the real case here? A Gentleman who
held a place during pleasure thought proper to de-
mand an increase of salary, and used the mockery of
calling it his Right. What should the Lords of the
Admiralty have said to him on that occasion
?
The only way in which they ought to have replied
to him was this : —44 Who are you that come here in
this blustering manner and demand this right ?"
The Navy Boaid were as-intelligent on this subject
as the Lords of the Admiralty; and they very pre-
perly doubted, whether, in point of substance and fact,
the country was in such a state of war as justifiel an
additional salary. 01 the very same day, however,
the whole six of the Lords of the Admiralty returned
an order, stating, that it was consistent (what a word!)
to consider this a state of war, and that the Secretary,
therefore, was entitled to the war salary. These
Lords, who affected to construe the order so strictly,
should have recollected that the penalty lay on the
peopl! of England, and that the strictness was to be
for their advatitaged: These Lords had no right or
power whatever to give such a salary as they had
given. He did not think that any one could call it
a time of
.Wit ; and certainly no one could say that
there was any additional trouble: there were five sail
*of the line, five frigates, five sloops, five bombs, but
not one of them was put into commission for this oc-
casion. Wk re then was the additional trouble ? Un-
less, indent, the Honourable Secretary thought that
his office in time of peace was to be a mere sinecure.
It was disgusting (for lie could find no other word)
to see the Lords of the Admiralty straining the sub-
ject to give the utterm'ist penny against the people.
—(Hear.)—The Lords of the Admiralty had dated
the salary from the very day of the order, and had
allowed it up to the very day of the arrival of the
ratification. Nay, they allowed it at a time when
they knew there was peace; for the dispatch of Lorl
Exmouth had stated, that the action 4.v.is fought 03
the 27ib, and the treaty was signe4 on the '2h:h.—
(Here Mr. Croker said, the ratification was not then
received.)—What then, ;Ai Mr. Tierney, if by any
accident the vessel containing it had been detained,
or had foundered, the Secretary would, on this prin-
ciple, have had a right to demand his salary for three
months longer ?—(Hear, hear.)—Could the House
bear this—if they could, would the country bear it
fhe order was given to prepare an Expedition en
the `l6th of July ; Lord Extuouth then sailed, and
nothing else remained to be done, unless the Hon.
Secretary meant to charge for anxiety. of inincl.—(4
Lartg4.)—lie could not shew that there was any
additional trouble after that : all his labour ceased
When Lord Exmouth sailed. The country would
from this see the conduct of this economical Admi-
nistration,. who, a/bowel* they had as opportunity
of reducing th!..expeackure, had, on the pontrary,
increased salaries wherefer they could ; and if in'
any case a little was ;to be added, took care to
make that little-as lame/ as possible.— ( [fear, Ii a-.)
What.l could not six Lords of the A.:mir Icy, a Id
two Secretaries, get up a little expedition tii r..ect the
Dey of Algiers without an increase of the Secretaries'
salaries. I'he last time when the Honour di: Se-
Csetary spoke of his salary, lie told the __ouse that is
was forced upon him against his will. Did tne
hHaodusseooriel recollect that ?foAr
on
nd
tlymetveirtyantria,ie,dpotrht
tafoltye
he demanded what he called his right : and the Luids
.ot the Admiralty, as if to shew how
quarrel with them, had immediately

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