Star.
London, England, 1819-03-30 00:00:00

MR. WYNDHAM QUIN'.

On Sir ROBERT WILSON'S motion, the Order
of the Day for taking into consideration the matter
of the complaint against Mr. Wyndham Quin, was
read. Ile then moved that the said matter of cont.
plaint he now mien into consideration.
Mr, WY NDIIANI QUIN stated, that when he had
last addressed the I louse, he had confined himself to
the matter of the Poition of which he held a copy,
and had declared that the charges of corruption
brought against him were not founded in fact, and
that he was not guilty of the practices laid te. his
account. He had been accused of breaking up the
emoluments of the odice of Clerk of t.:1;: Peace, in
order to distribute them among persons whose influ-
ence would be at his command. It was true that he
had put one charge upon that office. It was but one,
and was for the benefit of young Grady himself. It
was, therefore, hard that • that particular charge
should be brought against him as a crime by the
very person for whom it was intended. It had not.
even originated with himself. It had been suggested
to him by others, and he had adopted the suggestion
with pleasure, because he wished well to young
• Grady. When he had proposed the £2OO a year to
Mr. T.W. Grady, however, it was without any stipu-
lation whatever, or any contract for his political sup-
port. It was Solely out of regard to him, and not in
consequence of any claim founded on any promises
which he had given. He was aware that an alleged
promise formed no part of the charge against him ;
but as it had been made to appear that if he had not
made a promise, he had said something so near it as
to lead Mr. T. W. Grady astray with respect. to his
intentions, he trusted the House would allow him to
say a few words.on the subject.—(hear, hear.)--He
had never, never intended to lead young Mr. Grady
astray. He had never said any thing which could
bear that interpretation. He knew that when parts
of sentences were, brought together they might be
made to express what had never been intended. Even
Mr. Grady, sen.'had attempted to put on him a state-
ment of a conversation which had taken place be-
tween them the day before, .which was entirely in-
correct. A letter which he had Written to Mr. Grady
on that occasion would show that he had sever en-
deavoured to 'mislead either of those Gentlemen. It

was in answer to one from Mr Grady, who stated
that he had suddenlriv,en called from Dublin or
LiverpooL He then read, a, letteia in.which, after
stating that the pretended recapitulation of their pre-
vious conversation was incorrect, be added, " if you
understood that what r said amounted to a promise
of noe disturbing your son, yon are utterly mistaken.
I neveirmade your son any promise to give him
office or not to remove him. On the contrary, I told
him that 1 might be obliged to remove him, and I
have informed' Mr. Richard Smith, that if I have
the power, I will appoint him Clerk of the• Peace.
This I shall certainly do." Whatever the House
might think of him on other subjects, he should feel
still more hurt and galled at the idea that he had
led any one astray. Mr. T.W. Grady had never dis.
charged the duties of the office. He (Mr. Quin) had
appointed one who would, and did discharge them,
and who, therefore, now kept the situation. The pro-
posal had been communicated to young Grady with-
out au reservation whatever. At first he had not
seemed inclined to accept it, but afterwards two
Gentlemen had called ou him (Mr. Quin) and dis-
cussed the suliject in such a manner as to leave him
with an impression that it was agreed to by all par-
ties. It was under such an impression that he had
quitted the country. This was in the month of July,
and as they had stated that young Grady conceived
that he could not be removed, and, would be much
embarrassed if the removal took place immediately,
against his expectations, he (Mr. Qum) had postponed
it, and suffered two months to elapse without making
out the new appointment. In September he had re-
ceived a letter from Mr. Carew Smyth, entreating
that he would call on him, as he (Mr. C.) entertained
an expectation that he could shew that he (Mr. Quin)
could not remove Mr. T. W.,Grady. The answer
sent to this letter was, that he (Mr. Quin) should be
happy to see Mr. C. Smyth, but that he should imme-
diately appoint. Mr. Richard Smith to the office of
Clerk of the Peace. Mr. Carew Smyth had called on
the 21st September, and after all had been discussed
distinctly, had said something about political support.
He (Mr. Quin) had then stated, that he hoped and
expected Mr. Grady would continue to give him his
support. He would, perhaps, have been a more pru-
dent man, had he never entertained or expressed
such a hope ; but he had never thought of making it
a condition ; neither had he conceived that the Peti-
tioner or any others could possibly take it in that
point of view. Had his motives been corrupt he
would have gone very differently to work. That,
however, had laid the foundation for all the misre-
presentations which had since been circulated. For
it had been assumed by the Petitioner, that he had
stipulated for his political support, though he (Mr.
Quir.) had repeatedly informed him that that was not
the case. He (Mr. Quin) had been threatened with
hostile treatment, and with lampoons and insults,
which were to be showered upon him by Mr. Grady's
father. Under such circumstances, could he (Mr. Q.)
be considered as entirely a free agent ? He begged
of the House to turn its attention to the intrinsic na-
ture of the evidence, and it would see how impossible
it was that he should dream of stipulating for support
from Mr. Grady, for Mr. Grady had scarcely any to
give. He held no fee-simple ; his freeholders were
registered on four farms, each of which was held
under a different landlord, and on the life of an aged
individual. One was his own property (Mr.Quin s).
If he had divided the office in order to increase his
influence, he would lace bestowed the £2OO a year
on some individual whose interest would not have
been so likely to melt away in a very few years.—
Neither would he have so stipulated, when he alone
held the power which could make such a stipulation
effective. Mr. C. Smyth had asked leave to take mi-
nutes of the conversation that passed between them.
He had done so, and the next day he (Mr. Q.) bad
received and returned them, telling Mr. C. Smyth
that he wished for no such compact. He had kept no
copy of those minutes, and had refused to sign them.
He had gone to the country a few days after, when
the Petitioner had called on him. He then (Mr. Q.)
had repeated in presence of Mr. Roche, whose evi-
dence proved the fact, that he did not want to stipu-
late for any political support, and bad refused to hold
further conversation. Mr. Carew Smyth had come
down subsequently, and a report had preceded him,
stating that he was bringing an hostile message. He
regretted the prevalence of such a report, and still
mote so that Mr. Smyth bad not sent a person to him
to state how he understood what had passed between
them, as to such a person he would have no objection
to explain every misunderstanding which might have
taken place. He then contended, that in conversing
with the friends and advisers of Mr. T. W. Grady, it
was their object, and not his, to obtain a stipulation.
They wished to gain from him a pledge that he never
:could, on any occasion, take the £2OO a-year from
Mr. Grady, junior. This he at first refused, and the
Ho Ise had seen enough of that Gentleman's conduct
to think him justified in pausing before he put him-
self in the power of so vindictive a man. In fact, the
question had never been reduced to the narrow limits
of one of votes, until it had been done by Mr. Gab-
bat, who urged, that though he (Mr. Quin) said
that young Grady might vote as he pleased, yet a
different construction might afterwards be given to
the affair. It was then that he (Mr. Quin) had con-
sented to bind himself not to deprive Mr. T. W.
Grady of the £2OO a-year, whatever vote he might
give. When he had thus completely shewn to the
world that he left the petitioner entirely free, it wasl
hard that he should be charged with having acted
corruptly. It had, been alledged, that the impliec:
political support formed the chief, if not the sole ols•
stasle to the arrangement; but when that questioa
had been set at rust, what motives could induce Mr.
Grady, junior, to refuse it? The House were aware
of the threat of the Petitioner's father, that if he were
,I
not bought off by the restoration of his son to office,
he would bring the sulaject before Parliament, and
had been encouraged to do so by a large body of the
Opposition—!Hear, hear, hear.) He (Mr. Q.) only
despised such a threat, which was rendered ten times
more contemptible by the calumnious insinuation
which it conveyed. He should not say that his. defy-
ing Mr. Grady to bring on his charges was a proof
of his innocence, but surely it was at least a strong
presumption in his favour ; for if he had not felt conai
scious of innocence, would he have brought himself
before the House, wl)ere be must be convicted, if
. •
with
Mr. whilst he had the power of comphlng
Mr. Grady's demand, and rewring soo
had not done it, because hi felt himseN innocent—. J

He had disdained the ignominious safety offered
him, and had preferred throwing himself upon the
e
now only repeat, that he did not feel himself'
judgment of the House—Wear, hear.) Hgoshiletyt
the charges of corruption brought against him. If it ,
wrong, let it be deemed an error ,
appeared to the House that he had
of
judgment, for
bad not wilfully intended to act improperly, Some
might think that it was unjust to put any charge on
eft nhge
the office: he only begged of them to rece:lect in
what situation he had been placed. Having offered
these explanations, he would leave the ca-y to t... i
fair consideration, and to the candid and impartial
judgment of the House, and would say no more.—
The Honourable Member was loudly cheered at
the close of his speech. He then bowed to the Spcaker
and to both sides of the House, and retired.
Sir ROBERT WILSON hoped that the favour
which had been shewn when he first brought this
subject forward, and which had been cont.nued
through the whole of the examinations which had
followed, would not now be withdrawn from him
when he was about to enter upon the last most pain-
ful, and most difficult part of his task. In doing this
he disclaimed ;J1 political animosity towards the I lo-
nourable Member whose case was before the Ilouse;
and if to have no vindictive feelings to gratify, no
personal considerations to influence his conduct,
could entitle a person placed in his situation to say
his motives were honest, such, he had a right to say,
were his. Hitherto he had appeared as the advocate
of the Petitioner, but now it was his painful duty to
stand forward as the public accuser, responsible for
the opinions he might express, and the infezences
which he might feel warranted in drawing from the
evidence which had been given at their Bar. As in
the inquiry which had taken place, he had °lily
sought to arrive at the truth, so in the present stage
of the business,' he trusted the House would sec that
in summing up it was not his object to disguise the
facts, or in any way to mislead the judgment ofthose
who were now to decide on this important question.
The Honourable Member who was the subject of the
charge which he had to prefer had withdrawn, to
await their decision. That he should do so, might
be perfectly proper ; and since he was no longer pre-
sent, it would be his cat e to comment on no part of
the evidence to which he had not already had an op-
portunity of giving a reply. The charge preferred
against the Honourable Member (Mr. W. Quin) went
to impute to him, that he had been engaged in mak-
ing a corrupt bargain, in order to securethe influence
of the Petitioner at the ensuing election, thereby tak-
ing a course inconsistent with his duty as Custos Ro-
tulorum, in breach of the privileges of that House,
and in violation of the Statute Law of the land. He
should, in what he had to say, confine himself to the
evidence immediately bearing on the act charged;
against the Honourable Member; for though justice
required that he should not shrink from the perform-
ance of his duty to spare individual feelings, it did
not require that he should inflict an unnecessary
wound. He then proceeded to state the case, such
as it had been detailed by the Petitioner, and such as
it has been repeatedly given to the Public in THE
STAR. From this it appeared that the Petitioner,
after holding the situation of Clerk of the Peace for
fifteen years, had been dismissed from it in 1818 by
Mr. W. Quin, the office being then given to a Mr.
Richard Smith ; but it was proposed by the former
that £2OO per annum should be deducted from its
etnnhussents, and paid to Mr. Grady, on condition
that he should support Mr. Quin with his interest in
the County. This offer was rejected by the Petitio-
ner. He next went over to the evidence of Mr. Ca-
rew Smyth, which corroborated the statement of the
Petitioner with respect to the offer made by Mr. W.
Quin, and the rejection of it by Mr. Grady. Ile par-
ticularly dwelt on that part of the evidence which
set forth a conversation between Mr. Carew Smyth
and Mr. Wyndham Quin on this subject,. which had
been reduced to writing by the former, which rsi-.
nute, with some little alteration, had been approved
as correct by the latt.T. A letter addressed to Mr.
Goold, stating it to be never y that some provision
should be made for the continuance of Mr. Grady's
annuity, in the event of Mr. Quirts decease, the Ho-
nourablo-Member commented on, as one that, from
the language it contained, could not have been re-
ceived by the party it was addressed to, without
calling forth a refutation of the serious and criminal
charge there implied, had the party been guiltless.—
The postscript of the letter, in which Mr. Grady, sen.
threatened to make the conduct of the Honourable
Gentleman the subject of Parliamentary Inquin,
which he had " the means of doing through Sir Ro-
bert Wilson," required some explanation. niough
as he (Sir Robert Wilson) had stated on a former oc,
casion, he knew nothing of the parties, or of the peti-
tion, till a few days before the latter was put into his
hands to present to that House, yet, from the peti-
tioner being connected with persons who were their
common friends, he might be justified in supposing
that he (Sir Robert Wilson) would bring the subject
forward. The conduct of Mr. C. Smyth while under
examination he described to have been in every re-
spect most praiseworthy. Though severely cross-
examined, he had steadily maintained all he had ad-
vanced. No one had been able to shake him in the
slightest degree. He seemed to stand on the rock of
truth, and every effort to move him had served but
to fix him more securely there. He owed it to him-
self to say, that he could not approve of the advice
which Mr. p. Smyth had thought himself justified in
giving, but; be was aware that there were many cir-
cumstances to be urged in extenuation of his conduct.
He next proceeded to notice the evidence given by
Mr. Goold. Considering it essential to the ends of ,
justice that all persons should be heard at the liar efl
that House who could throw any light on the trans- I
action which was the subject of the present charge ;
ludoboeld deprived
he had
d cawed of tlre
Lim benefit of
and considering that it was unfair that the Honour-
tbabeleteGattoenmyaonf should
to be
asTboante(olentthieemmaittin,
summonedpetitioner. ehowever,
h ewpbae
part
before
the the House, was so much agitated in his mina, and in I
cae uen, as it should- seem, was unfortuna:ely I
visit with such a total failure of his recollection,
a appearedboteov e
rr e
ne what
abl
eh at
od
rneecvoeur
ehrat p
bp
eetini egd .
and
lie
had not only forgotten what did occur, but had
or nt. beenr
pre-
,sent at a conversation in which the condition attached
by Mr. Quin to the proposed grant had been made a
isistew pop, Aftergiving the subject the utmost
I atteAtlol.4 Ilse WAS of opinion that that. Gentlynuas

evidence ought to be erased and excl...kS
from the consideration of this case. I/
at W 012,1 a.*
thin he had a right to require f:rat evidence 41
rejected, which, by his cArit conftmsion, aTte .
statements of others, had been proved to k
wqtz,
neous and so unfoundeJ. lie brkfly sunnedue"*.,l
evidence given by the witnesses who had f0r,.."
Mr. Goold. To him (Sir Robert Wilson)
from all the evidence, that till the lOthiact,47'
:loin had never trina
.fidt tcieased Mr. Gradei,
the condition which he had first annexed to 6,-
posed annuity. Whether cr not he did it Eter,-;
be a matter of doubt; but as it was a matte (If
dv
he was disposed to give it in favour cf the llrt
able Gentleman. lie wished he coold avoid,
conclusion to which regard for the h,•crn--
House, the interests of the community, a2d thee.
of justice obliged him to conic, namely. :hr. ill,.
duct of the ll..mourable Gentleman had beer,
sistcnt with his duty as Custos Ito•xlortim, 411
time of the freedom of election. and a breach si
privileges of that House. It was not for lima te
out the steps which the House ought to take to
dicate its character in a case like the preicnt,
inexri-r:ence would, he hoped, plead his mute
shotild be thought he did not go so far as le,
to go, and he trusted it would not :rpe.,r
shrunk from the performance of his duty,

painful tha duty uTight bz. Ile conclil7.L
ing the following Resolutions :

That it appearTto this House that the rons-..z1,1,
(bin was, in July 1818, appointed (\twos
County of Limerick by flit Lord lieutenant ef
tue f which ofliet he was empowered to annint • c
the Peace for the said County.
" That some time in the month of .S.Tteinher, th.l •
\V. Quin appointedllichard Stri:h to be Cirtk

tho r:ioin ut T. IV. GraLty, who was retiviscd by h.:

" That :he said W. W. Quit) did stipulate with lid P.
that out of th-• ttnoluments arising from the ufsct nt C
the iltt3Ce, ;mounting in the whale to AW pi- astr.
yearly sum of .{.:X9 should be paid to the said T. 'S. (in
Several Resolutions succeeded, which mereli
to decline the other facts of the case as alleged a
the ilono;trable Member, and closed as fullow
" That it appear. to :his 110 uh,.• th;:t the c,;;Nket of t!
W. W. Quin was incon,istent w;:h his duty as Cr.str• 1

rutn of the Cutt:ity, in 'violation cf eke rie:t
Llection, and a breach of the Priciit•i• s cf this nom

Mr. BOOTLE WILBRAHAM appladt
manner in which tl:e Honourable Gutlenun
brought this subject forward, but diared frot.
in the view which he took of the evidence, ead
more as to the Resolutions which he had sabr
to the House. He was perfectly unacquainted
the Hon. Member who was the subject cf thr
tion, and his so;c reason for standing forwan
an anxious wish that the House, in its de ire
right, and correct. abuses, should not do wre
visitin,, indiscretion with too pouch severity.

Gentlemen were inclined to believe the How):
Member :Mr. Quin) the victim of a conspirz:
this was not his opinion. Ile had such eonfil
the honour of Mr. Carew Smyth, that he con
believe that that Gentleman would have lent hi
to the views of the Gradys, if such had realh
the character of their proceedings. For Mr..
he would say a little. It should be remembered
he was a man of great abilities and high honour.
appeared that he had been 28 years at the Irish
and if he mistook not, 13 years at the head

Munster Circuits. The last circumstance proved
high estimation in which he had been held,
was hard that the character of such a nia3

be blasted because his memory had failed him
point, which, after all, was not oue of great
ance. He wished the different situations in

that Gentleman and Mr. C. Smyth stood Lobe
dered. The latter was the near relation of the
tioner, anxious for his success, and liLc y to ju,
all that might forward his views, and to renanni
it. The former, who was only the legal advi
one of the parties, might not be so deeply
ion:, me circumstances which fixed themselves
memory of Mr. C. Smyth, as that Gentleman
been. On reading the evidence without an)
either way, as he had done, he felt much co4l
There was not enough to acquit on the one '
nor to convict on the other. In all legal cases
a doubt existed, that doubt was given in favour
the accused. Ile would only ask for Mr. Qui,
he should not be dealt wi:h more harshly there
he would be any where else, and he hoped the'
would pause before they came to a decision, so
in its consequences, that it would not only

him here, but would sink him below his present
in society. A diffeience of opinion existed
whether the office of Custos Rotulorum sv
prohibited by law from interfrting with electit
Ile knew not whether it was so or not. Tht
was one of difficulty ; but the Resolutions 124
presently to propose would, he hoped, meet tho
of all parties. lie wished it to be observed,
the House proceeded in the present instance t(
nish the Honottralde Gentleman, they would

him not for an act committed, but ibr an

tended to be committed ; and between the two
he must remark there was a very material diffe
He would admit that there might be, fora ton
an inteation.on his part to do that of which
accused, when Mr. C. Smyth came to make
Fain with him (he hoped he might be allowed
this), but for this it would be hard to visit
the severe displeasure of the 1101.12. He CC;i,t,
to move, after the third Resolution, that the fol .
ing be adopted:•

" That in the month of July, IRltt, it appeared that
Q:1111 did offer to T. W. Grady au aunuity of out
ernoltimenti et the o:fice of Gicrh of the Peace for the Co.,
Limerick, without declaring that he ihould expect from t
W. Grady any political support, nor does it appear
motive was to secure such political support."
" That in the month of September, ins, the said W• 11.•
did admit to %lr. C. Smyth, iu au interview sought by the
that he expected the piratical support of the said T. W. '
in conNiekration of his reciiving the A7aNiper annum; but
10th of October, he disclaimed any intention of deprivii
of the said allowance in the event of his Withdrawing

tical support."
0 That this Hour cannot but consider the intention to
suit the act specified highly improper, and Lich at iipersers
in, instead of being disclaimed, would have n:e:itcd its be
censure."
The SPEAKER said, the House mist be
that these Resolutions, as they were to. follow. 0
: Resolution, could not be put, till the three t:A
solutions had been in some way dispoted 4.
Mr. F. DOUGLAS felt himself compelled to
for the resolutions uf his gallant Friend near lii
The House could not but remember that the cb
fin the first insulla, hid been most clearly 80

enied b 7 the Honourable Gentleman sr!
ist bear in mind, that after the inquiry
alien place. the characters of other per-
low be affected by their decision, who
clai►u to their protection as the Hon.
id have He had never heard stronger
evidence better corroborated than that
,• ah For that of Mr. Geoid, consider-
ion in Ireland, and at the Irish bar, he
and speak of it differently from what he
evidence had come from anather person.
most add, that his want of recollec
isrecollcction, made Lis evidence of no
Ily when opposed as it was to that of a
C. Smyth. The evidence even of Mr.
fact to corroburate that of Mr. Smyth.
given by Mr. Carew Smyth to Mr.
not such as it might have been wished
,en, but various considerations tended to
he thought it impossible to believe that
been any conspiracy against the Honoura-
tn. He must agree with the Ilesolu-
that a high breach of their privileges ap-
me been committed; but still there were
or strong mitigation to be urged in
ilonouritge Gentleman, and there were
iggravation. gran the whole he could
for an amendment to the motion, but
id been moved appeared to hid' to, be a
r. If carried they would find the House
ruhl not acquit Mr. Quin in the eyes of
if he believed that what the Honourable
iad done, had been done with a corrupt
7ould say the House ought not to anal.
lin its walls, and that punishment ought
to him which was applied to the smaller
Howse, however, ought to recollect
duct had been on former occasions, and
world to say of them that they punished
,n in an inferior officer, which, in one
iporiAnce, was permitted to escape with

begged to trespass for a short time on
,of the House. The subject was one of
qualm, and he was sure that the
.1-louse
to be most important—that it was one
,ad them to perform a duty not merely
bat also judicial, and, as such, he was
ad be disposed to extend some indul-
k any one who, like himself, thought
occupy some portion of their time in
the various circumstances of the case.—
egin by noticing one part of the subject
reference had been made to himself per-
is was respecting a gap in the corre.
In one of the letters of the elder Mr.
appeared in the evidence, lie paid many
to Mr. Carew Smyth, on the way in
managed one part of the transaction
in. These compliments very naturally
probability of some letters having been
Mr. Carew Smyth, giving such an ac-
conduct as would justify these compli-
ordingly a messenger was dispatched to
or any such letters; but none such ap-
ine indeed was inclosed to him by the
Gentleman, who asked him (Mr. Peel)
,her he thought the interests of either
::ed its publication ? In reply to this corn-
'le stated, after having examined it, that
thing in the letter which required its pub-.
: the same time he must say, tiv:4t there
in that letter to justify the tompliments
iy—(Hrnr, hear).—Yet *se compliments
relined by Mr. C. Smyth, though he gave
, of his conduct in the transaction different
which, he had given at the Bar of the
lavinz raid this much, he must now recall
attention of the House to some of the statements
been made. And first, as to what had',
. the tone in which Mr. Quin had spoken.—
he was sure the Ifouse would think such
~ warranted by the circumstances in which
aced. It was natural that such charges
repelled with indignation. The Petition
stating, that Mr. Wyndham Quin, finding
Elect;on for the County of Limerick, that
,:e had very much declined, had found it
to divide the office of Clerk of the Peace,
.iew of increasing his influence. Now it
not only that this assertion WAS nut proved,
was distinctly disproved. The next ma-
ration in the Petition was, that Mr. Grady
auly, for many years, supported the hue-
:. Quin in the County, by his whole te-
mounting to no less than 200 freeholders,
Mr. Quin wished to secure this support for
by a regular bargain and sale. This alle-
; also disproved. The third allegation was,
:sclaime.r of exacting. Mr. Grady's political
'as made by Mr. Quin, in consequence of
of a parliamentary investigation. It was
his Honourable Friend (Mr. Wilbraham)
teas not proved, although the Ilonourab:e
whose Nlotiop was before the flow;;;, did
such an admission. From tl;g evidence
(aS now before the House, he thought the
conclusions must be drawn : first, that the
motion di: Mr. C12.7:.n in dividing the office,
to secure the political support of Mr. Grady.
that up to the interview on the 21st of
fiber, nothing was said by Mr. Wyndham
to his requiring Mr. Grady's political sup-
le condition on which the annuity was granted.
, that on the 10th of October, when Mr.
tpressly stated that he did not stipulate for the
,support of Mr. Grady, that declaration was
IF from any threat of parliamentary inquiry.
-le first point, he contended, that the great
of 'l7- Quin in dividing the office of Clerk of
tc; was to be relieved from the necessity of
tiy dismissing from that office Mr. T. V.
.h.ho had supported him at the last election,
lo !he must confess) had reason to Expect that
ild be continued in the office. On this subject
it read an extract from Mr. Grady's letter to
.myth, dated lsth September, in which he
in account of a conversation with Mr. Quin
• In that account Mr. Quin is represented to
What is to be done ? I have promised
and that .pronsise I must make good, if I have
Power:" To this Mr. Grady replies (p. 100),
*t are two friends who have equal claims upon
\olle has been in office fifteen years, and is now
ce , and you turn him out to appoint the other ;
IS a cue that you yourseW admit is incapable

1 • .
of compromise bets/refs ARM." Mr. 174 P; iir •rn dharn
Quin then says, " I never was in a situation of so
Much distress and difficulty; I with I never had
any thing, ao do with it, for I cannot think of it with-
-1 Out pain. "fhis was the elder Mr. Grady's account
of what passed on this occasion, and it does not ap-
pear from it that one word was about political said
support. Another part of the c‘idence deserved the
attention of the House. Mr. 'l'. W. Grady stated
(p. 71,) that " directly after the election I rode out
to Adare, thinking it a matter of course to be ap-
pointed, and which I told Mr. quin : Mr. Quin, to
I.my great astonishment, stated that he dreaded the
interview which was about to take place between
ns." He then states that an arrangement was talked
of, and Mr. Quin proposed to allow him the pro%
fits of the office of Clerk of the Peace for two years.
If therefore this (which was the first offer of compro-
mise, and proceeded from Mr. Quin), had been ac-
cepted, it was clear that no political support was
bargained for. Nor, indeed, was it reasonable to sup-
pose that any such could be expected by Mr. Quin,
for suppose that the next election took place in seven
years, what claim would Mr. Quin then have on Mr.
Grady for his support for the two years' profits of
art office from which he was removed? This, there-
' fore, clearly established, that the original motive for
dividing the office was net to obtain political support.
As to the second position, it was clearly proved on
the evidence of the Petitiene.r himself, that up to the
21st of September, nothing was said by Mr. Quin of
the political support of Mr. Grady being a condition
for the annuity of £2OO. Mr. T. W. Grady was disa
tinctly asked (p. 78) whether Mr. Quin had said any
thing to him about political support, and his answer
was, " certainly not." This was decisive on that
point. The third point related to the circumstances
which took place on the 10th of October. On that
/day Mr. :Wyndham Quin hid distinctly stated that
Mr. Grady would have the annuity and might vote
as he pleased. Therefore, whatever impropriety there
had been in the conduct of Mr. Quin, he had before
that time repented of it. But the Hon. Gentleman
tried to do away with the merit of Mr. Quin's decla-
ration on the 10th of October, by imputing it to the
threat of bringing the matter before Parliament.—
Certainly, if the declaration was made under that
threat, he must admit that it did away with all the
grace of the repentance. The Honourable Gentle-
man said, that the letter delivered by Mr. Carew
Smyth, dated the Bth October, might have conveyed
the threat of Parliamentary investigation, and that
Mr. Quin might have acted under its influence.—
But Mr. Carew Smyth expressly gave it in evidence,
that he had received that letter which had been sent
to him open, and that it did not contain any threat
or hint of the kind. But then the Honourable Gen-
tleman
seemed to say that Mr. Mansell might have
conveyed this threat. It was impossible to hold to
this ; for Mr. Mansell, in his evidence, distinctly
stated, that it was not till November or December
that he heard any thing of a Parliamentary inquiry.
Therefore he did maintain that it was conclusively
established by the evidence before the House, that
Mr. Quin was entitled to all the grace of the decla-
ration made by him on the 10th October—(hear.)
He zn..ist now notice that part of the case which re-
lated to the transaction between the 21st September
and the 10th October. In that interval, it could not
be denied that Mr. Quin expected the political sup-
port of Mr. Grady. But then the great matter was,
bow it was mentioned, and how stated, in that inn-tai-
-1 ment which Mr. Grady called the indenture and
deed? It appeared, that in the conversation on dint
occasion Mr. Quin said, that when he appointed
Smith to the office, it was to hold it during his (Mr.
Quin's) pleasure, that so he mightsecure the pay-
ment of Mr. T. lk'. Grady's artratY,-that then there
was a pause, and Mr. Quin added " but I expect in
return that the Grady family will remain. politically
attached to me in the County of Limerick." The
whole of this conversation contained nothing imply-
ing a pledge; and if Mr. Grady had accepted the
annuity, there would have been no more than a mere
expectation on the part of Mr. Quin that he would
have the political support of Mr. Grady. But then
came the interview of Mr. C. Smyth with Mr. Quin.
On this part of the subject he begged that it might
be observed, the interview was solicited and pressed
by Mr. Carew Smyth. He admitted that Mr. Quin
went to that interview with the expectation, that ,if
the annuity was granted he would remain on the came
footing with Mr. Grady as formerly. The whole im-
pression on Mr. C. Smyth's mind was, that Mr. Quin
' had a right to expect that Mr. Grady, if he accepted
the annuity, would continue his political support, and
he had expressly s:,:ited, that he thought it would be
romantic to (2',.pect Mr. Quin would grant t! an-
nuity-, and consent to all.;:m. Mr. Grady tr.:Vote against
him. S.,uppose Mr. C. Smyth had began the conver-
satima with Mr. Quin, by saying 4, I think it too ro-
uotntic to expect that you will grant this annuity,
and at t!;;; same time allow Mr. Grady to vote against
you." Might not Mr. Quin have very readily been
drawn in to reply ? ,‘ To tell you the truth, I do ex-
pect is he accepts the annuity that he will continue
to support me—for as you say it would be much too
rcnnantic to expect that I could allow hint to vote
against me under such circumstances." If afterwards,
next day, Mr. C. Smyth, after having extracted such
an avowal, came with a written minute of the con-
versation to procure an authentication of it, the whole
complexion of the case would be altered. The truth
was, that the document in this case, though not ,
signed, was obtained by Mr. Carew Smyth at an
interview procured at his own instigation ; and he
wished the House to observe the light it which
Mr. Grady, senior, viewed the conduct of Mr. C.
Smyth as to this part of the transaction. In Mr.l
Grady's letter of o,:he 20th October, to Mr. Carew
Smyth, he says, "II know not what part of your con-
duct most to adms re —the coolness and ingenuity with
which you led (.4. ain on at his interview with you inl
i
Dublin, from c ,quetry to a full declaration of his
passion for bAbery and corruption—the simplicity-.
with which ye .0 conducted him to a written testimo-
nial," &C. I-.! e was sorry that 11r. Carew Smyth did
not reject th ose compliments—(hear, hear). He Dever
read a pass age more calculated to mita the sudden
indignze.;,y a of a man of honour than that in which
Mr. Graf y, sen. with an odious familiarity of stYl_e, I
talked yo, how he had led on the onsuspecting ?itr-,
Quin to commit himself. The words were (p. 105),
Twc . damned insidious of you, And a great shatnei
to ha ri: asked Quin to sign the Jed of clianerParlYl
&c. !Thew were the farts jp which *as part of the

trammel. on was talked of. Ceitainly he wished Mr.'
Quin had at once told Mr.Gratiy, jun. that he could
not continue him in the Office. He disapproved of
dividing the office ; but it was to be considered that

it was not an unusual practice to do so, speaking
without reference to the Act of 1809. But he really
believed there was no intention to purchase political
support, and that, but f..n. the interview, it wonld
have been left to a fair understanding. There were
many circumstances to be considered in mitigation
of the conduct of Mr. Quin; and he Was sum the
censure voted by his Honourable Friend (Mr. Bootle),
in such a tan, must be considered a severe punish-
' ment. He begged the House to recollect, that on
the 10th October Mr. Quin repented of his conduct,
and expressly released the improper condition which
he had mentioned. He implored the House not to
be influenced by any publication which had been
made of a letter of Mrs. Grady to Mrs. Quin, which
he understood had been printed and circulated yes-
terday. The Committee of the House had examined
that letter, and as it did not materially bear upon the
question, being written in confidence frim one Lady
to another, it had been suppressed.' He trusted that
the House would not be influenced in its judgment
by the art'fices of such a publication.—(The Right
Honourable Member concluelal amidst much cheering.)

Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH said he rose to state,
shortly and impartially, the grounds on which he
should act in performing what he felt to be a painful
judicial duty. The issue on which they were bound
to try the Hon. Member (Mr. Quin), and to find a
true deliverance, was, whether the alleged breach of
privilege was proved? They were to decide whether
it had been proved that Mr. Quin, on the 21st of
September, did not, by expectation, or any tacit un-
derstanding, but by express words, require the poli-
tical support of 51r. Grady, as the reward of an an-
nuity. It was a misconception to suppose that from
July till the interview in September, no idea was en-
tertained by Mr. Quin of stipulating for political
support. No occasion arose for the discussion till this
interview. But the Right Honourable Gentleman
I(Mr. Peel) omitted one important circumstance in
the evidence. It is there stated, that it was men-

tinned that nothing had been distinctly stated as to
political support; and the answer was, ,g certainly
not—but that is of course always understood between
men of the work." Now if this be believed, it must
be carried back to all the antecedent parts of the
transaction. Arother important omission of the
Right Honourable Gentleman was, the circumstance
that there was reason to believe that a change was
taking place in the political opinions of the Grady
family. This must be particularly marked, for it
was the motive which operated all along on Mr.
Quin. In that part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's
speech, in which he placed the circumstances on the
ground of mitigation of punishment, the subject wasi
placed in its true light, and some degree of offence
was admitted. As to what related to the character
of Mr. Carew Smyth, the Right Hon. Gentleman
had treated the subject in a way that delivered him
(Sir James Mackintosh) from much difficulty. Alter
thirty years' experience of the examination of wit-
nesses, he must say, he had never seen a person
placed in so difficult a situation as Mr. C. Smyth, ac-
quit himself with so much credit—(Hear, hear).—
As to Mr. Goold, he wished to treat him with that
respect which his profession, his high rank in it, the
general high charterer of the Irish Bar, demamted.
But his Honourable Friend nad expressed himself '
to the testimony of Mr. Goold as of such a character,
that it justified a proposal of its being totally ex-
punged. He had himself seen so many instances of
the fallibility of memories, that he
.was aware how
much allowance was to be made on that account.
But if a man's memory was so bad between the hours
of eleven and twelve, that he forgot all the occurrences
of that time, he could not trust the memory of that
person as to what had happened between three and
four: Then it was to be considered that one or two
of the points on which Mr. Goold's memory had fail-
ed, were the most important in the whole transaction.
He would appeal to any man, at all acquainted with
the rules cf evidence, whether, if one half of a man's
testimony was fallacious, the other half of it was to
'be trusted? Certainly not. On that ground, there-
' fore, it was justifiable to omit Mr. Goold's evidence.
Mr. Carew Smyth then was an uncontradicted wit-
ness. It was to be observed that this Gentleman had
taken many notes, and given several accounts of
what had passed. All of these agreed exactly. He
wrote the minute—he wrote several letters, giving
an account of the transaction, and they all exactly
lived. Now he would waive the high character of
It•tr. Carew Smyth—he would waive the strong im-
pression which must have been produced on the
mind of every Member, by.the testimony given by
Mr. Carew Smyth at the Bar—he would waive all
this, and would stand upon the perfect agreement
of these accounts as decisive of their accuracy.—
For what interest had Mr. Carew Smyth in deceiving
the older and younger Mr. Grady ? The testimony
of Mr. Carew Smyth was therefore unimpeachable.,
As to Mr. Grady woulci.make no obser-
vation on his conduct and for this reason—bt.Tausei
he had already suffered punishment from the House.
As to what had been said of the interview, a view of
the whole circumstances of the case must convince
every man that Mr. Carew Smyth went to that inter-
view with the most sincere desire of bringing the
compromise to a successful conclusion. His great
object in that interview was not to entrap Mr. Quin,
bin to bring the compromise to a conclusion. As to
the second Resolution of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Bootle), which stated that there was a mere expecta-
Aiin on the part of Mr. Quin that political support
continue, it really appeared to him that .it,
would be negatived unless the House was prepared
to disbelieve positive and direct evidence. He was
sorry, as to such a matter, even to allude to the pu-
nishments with which such offences against the privi-
leges of the House ought to be visited ; but he was
decidedly of opinion that where any Member gave
away any office or emolument as the price of political
support, where the charge was clearly proved, the
proper punishment was expulsion from the House.—
(Hear, heir, heir.)
Mr. PLUNKETT spoke strongly in favour of the
',character of Mr. Gronld. Noticing the unfortunate
lisiskakes into which that Gentleman had fallen in hisl
lir' was glad shpt no one had adopted the
hardier construction of imputing.tis errors to any
,dditig but Mite d He contended, that
there was no ground for erasing or expunging the

;74-4.

~4.11:0WV

:,..,,,.

s'

. . .
whole of Mr. Goold's evidence, for anv mistakes
Some parts 'of it. On the same principle they would
exclude that Gentletnan's evidence on every future
occasion, and brand Win' as a person totally unworthy
of credit. There were fear material pies. as to
which Mr. Carew Smyth and Mr. Goold differed:—
First, as to whether the refusal to sign the Minute on
tr whether Third,
disavowaltlli eiert:
eur soNafli.
cieQ)nrau(t)civncr merely the 22d September was by Mr. Quin or Mr. Goold?
r.
c$ cr
no
nature,ennd , or
.3:
accuracy yy; lead s 1 ifctu.
e the
trdl:;ec
that
ysdi
he would be always ready to of
the Minute, though he would not sign it ? Potieth,
whether Mr. Quin did, on the 242 d September, at any
interview at which Mr. Goold was present, aclinow
ledge that Mr. Carew Smyth's account, which re-
presented the proposal of political support to have ori-
ginated on the part of him (Mr. Quin) was correct?
As to the first, the positive assertion of Mt. C. Smyth
was, that before Mr. Quin had time to answer him,
Mr. Goold said he had advised. Mr. Quin not to sign
the minute. This, however, seemed te, be contra-
dicted by the minute itself,. on the face of which
there was this memorandum, stating that " for cer-
tain reasons stated to me, he (Mr. Quin, that being-
tbe next antecedent) refused to sign." 13et Mr. C.
Smyth, in his evidence, (p. 60), explains, that by
" he," he meant Mr. Goold. But by the letter of
Mr. C. Smyth, given in evidence, (p. 20), he expressly
refers the refusal- to Mr. Quin, and imputes it to his
alarm in consequence of Mr. Grady's letter. Here
was the first material point of difference in the evi-
dence of Mr. Goold and Mr. C. Smyth, vet it an-
pear( d, both from •the minute and Mr. C. Smyth's
own letter, that the explanation was wrong, and
that Mr. Goold was correct. This be certainly did
not state by way of imputation against Mr. Carew
Smyth, whom be believed to be quite incapable of
misrepresentation from improper motives. It shewed,
however, the fallibility of Mr. Carew Smith's own
recollection, on a runt material point—(Hear, teeny.)
The second difference was relative to the signature
of the minute. According to Mr C. Smyth, the sole
objection of Mr. Quin was to signing the minute, and
not to its accuracy. And this refusal was stated to
be because the °Rice was one connected with the ad-
ministration of justice. Yet the objection was merely
to the signature, whilst the transaction itself was ad-
mitted. Could any man believe that this was the
motive—that he would confess the culpable gift in
the presence of several persons and then refuse his
signature as affording evidence of it?—(blear,
The next point of difference clearly shewed the ab-
surdity of this representation—for, according to Mr.
C. Smyth's statement, Mr. Quin, while he refused his
signature, offered on all occasions to attest the acen-
racy of the minute. Now as to this he must say, in,
credidus odi—it was not to be believed. Tlea the
guilty offer should have been acknowledged—that the
signature should be refused as evidence of it ; and
' then in the same breath, that though he refused to
sign, he offered on all occasions to attest the accuracy
:e1 a written account, stating that the guilty offer
which had been made was too much for any credulity.
It was absurd. It was impossible to believe it. And
nit was quite clear that as to the first point of dif-
ference Mr. C. Smyth was mistaken, so he was also
Mistaken in the second and third. (Hear, hear, hear.)
This brought him to the fourth difference—as to the
condition of support having originated with Mr.Quin.
In D. elk ' «1,. evidence. Mr. t smyrn expressly
states that the £2OO a year would not have been ac-
cepted if it had been coupled with any condition for
political support. He recalled the attention of the
House to the -memorable conversation so often re-
ferred to. In that there appears to have been, a long
pause. He should like to have heard what passed
during that interval, but Mr. Carew Smith endea-
voured to make the supposed heads of it. llad he
(Mr. Plunkett) known what really passed, he would
have been better enabled to elicit the subject. But
whatever was alleged on the occasion, he was of opi-
nion that the party (Mr. Quin) ought not to be crush-
ed ; and therefore, believing Mr. Quin free from any
thing but an act et. indiscretion, he felt himself ern.-
boldened to stand forward in his detcece. He had
not been guilty of any breach of privilege, neither
ought he to suffer for the misconcentions of others.
He referred to the evidence of Mr. Roche, Mr. Gab-
bet, and others, in vindication of his assertion.—
Whenever pressed upon the part of Mr. Grhsly, he
resisted his importunities, and refused to enter into
any compact. Mr. Quin positively denies having
entered into any stiptiletion with Mr. Grady ; and
in addition u, the evidence of Mr. Roche and Mr.
Gabbet, they had in the evidence of Mr. Grady him.
self, ample proof of the inneeeace of Mr. Quin.—
From pure beneficence, the latver haii offered Mr.
Grady the younger I:200 a-year, a friend, and
totally free from all political bias. Ha believed the
proposition which had caused the dispreesitre of the
House had not originated with Mr. Quin, ter any of
his friends, but from Mr. Grady himself, or from
Mr. Carew Smyth, his agent. Thence arose Ali-.
Quin's apparent sanction to it. I give yon (sej.s
Mr. Quin) 4.:2(X) a-year free from every stipulation."
It. was Mr. Quin's own bounty, and lie had a right
to gratify himself in this particular—(flear, her:o—
was no criminality in it. In his opinion it was
an innocent and a warrantable transaction, if any
blame was attachable to Mr. Wyndham-Quin, it arose
from his suffering himself to be decoyed, or misled
into such a transaction. What would we have done
had the proposition originated with Mr. Wyndham
Quin ? As a MeMbn at rarliament, he would have
been expelled the House, and been* aiso deprived of
his office of Custc's notulerom. But 'lie had con-
ducted a•-very different manner; and he
(Mr. Plunkett) did not feel disposed to 'allow his ene-
mies the triumph which they expected. Ile bestowed
several encomiums olal‘7.r. Care* Smyth as a t
irn-
tleman of great respectability, although in this in-
stance he might be said to have made some unac-
' countable deviation from propriety. horn every
'view of the subject, he could not consent to the reso-
lution of the gallant General, as censuring the con-
' duct of Mr. Quin—('l he Honpurable Member sat dotr'n
amidst loud cheers.)
Mr. %VYNNE, after maturely reading and weigh-
ing all the circumstances of the case, entertained an
'opinion • widely different. He thought Mr. Quin
'had been guilty of an attempt to commltliiribery.
and corruption. The case had been clearly made
-out--(Hear,.hear).
Mr. JOHN SMITH praised Mr. Carew ~'myth for
his candid and manly evidence; and he wat soriy

V,lllMr"--
ivocanl act
bat theY d n"11
ftich «a,
would no
..1,1 35 great a
'Jeraber could
e, Or r
-11 r Sn'Y
rs •
•cr !us Sinl4lo
(?•01W think al
i:aald if the cv
.F;ro. g this he
or his znis
eSPOCiaII
oil:: like Mr.
its-c 1.3 rent in,
r advice g
was n
be git;ei
it, an.
e hag! been
Ger.rleruhn
of fact, tl
.zed to have
ii.mmtrances
th.df of the I]
some of as
bare uidted fo
ost which had
Oct nullity.
cnilty, but woi
il:enxioa. If
Gentleman hat
rotive, lie wa
to sit withi
0. applied ti
41,1 ihr:ir con,
:.‘t allow the i
t.st corruption
r: Lighter imps
ovuty.
Y.:. PEEL 1
Ee:lttesizion o:
tat in portar
veld feel it t(
requireC
b
r.:l they woul
• :Cc towards
:.-...cessary to
.orsidering the
Y.t should beg
( which a re
This
trraience. Is
tr2dy, which
ilspliments
he had
:dr. Qui
:;;aced the
by
z..r.t of his c
rms. Acco
Hogue for
:Ted. One
'irlaurzble (
1::ze wheti
.:ty require
:zicatai hi
:ire WA: I.lotl
1.611, At
rat nothing
(irady
tenet dcc
n account o
:em that w
sior,se. Ha
attention
Lich had
.en said of '
.1.4 tone, h
was well
e was plat
~o,tl be r
e•bran by su
s. the last I
influence
:,:cessary to
..7.1 the vi
append 114
:T. that :t
.4i41
14 coastal
%.,t of Mr.
am
c.! that Jl
sje future 1
;:ion was
at the d's
.pport era
s-t threat
ii.T.itted
this t,
make
..j, rnake
_lca was
lowing
• OW n
4 not to
.)txernbe
.14 as
a% the
•
. •
t..T. cry
r
6'• made
tl to t'.l
o:
Pen,
dr,
*fist
'.r'
.:cc a,
'rnltl),
0
• ,
(.1.1 it

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