Star.
London, England, 1818-02-25 00:00:00

STEAM BOATS.

Mr. HARVEY made his promised motion, relative
to the providing increased security to passengers in
steam-boats. He felt it necessary, amongst other
improvements, to suggest that all steam-packets
should, in future, be registered. Also that, for bet-
ter protection, the boilers in the steam-engines should,
in future, be constructed of wrought iron alone : and
that there should be, during the working of the en-
gine, a competent engineer always on board to su-
perintend its management. He hoped these and other
regulations of the Bill would provide complete secu-
rity to passengers in future by steam-packets, and
moved for leave to bring in a Bill, adopting in its
provisions the improvements he had mentioned, which
was agreed to, and the Bill introduced and read a
first-time.

CITY FUNDS.

Mr. HOLME SUMNER, alluding to the state and
application of the Orphans Fund, by the Corpora-
tion of London, observed that there was no simila-
rity whatever between the estate of any private No-
bleman and that in question, to which it had been
compared. This fund had been grossly intrenched
upon, and the public were reprobating the expendi-
ture. An application was made to the House for a
further grant—but it was necescary to see how their
own money had been expended, before any funds
wei e allowed them from extraneous sources. By the
52d of the King, a power was given to the Corpora al
-
tion to obtain 96,0001. for building a prison, although
it had not been certified that their own funds were
insufficient. But unless they could shew that this
sum had been properly disbursed, the House would
not do its duty in making any grant from the funds
of others. They were fully made acquainted with
the opinions of individual Members at the time ; and
nobody had denied that the sum they took was fully
adequate—yet, they had undertaken to expend
34,0004 in addition to the 96,0001. and now applied
to the House to make it good. But he trusted the
House would hardly come to a conclusion to grant
them more, till an enquiry had been made as to how
they had disposed of the former grant. They had been
charged, in their own Court of Common Cquncil,
with an improvident expenditure of their funds, to
the amount of 44,0001. in gifts and donations, and
ith a further sum of 244001. for the entertainment
Liberators of Europe ; and on examina-
ieved this sum would be found to have
to 40,0001. than 24,0001. The Ho-
ientleman then read a document to shew
last thirty-seven years, or since 1780, they

had extended 45,991. in the hnproennests of streets,
and in donations of snuff-boles, swords, &c. to as
much as made the gross sum in that time 126,0001.
Within a short period only eke expenditure for such
articles had been 78991. Now, if they would' ex-
pand their money in objects of this nature, and then
come to the House for assistance, he would say that
the House had no right to grant it. Amongst other
gifts of this kind there was a charge for snuff-boxes
presented to the Dukes of Kent and Sussex, Colonel
Wardle, and other public characters--(laughter),
of 18,0001. There were 16,0001. as donations to
public charities, which was highly honourable to them,
provided they had funds to give ; but if not, they
should have remembered the old maxim, to be just
before you are generous. A sum of 2.5681. was en-
tered, under the head of donations, to public objects
connected with politics. The amount expended on
the jails would appear to be 126,0001- of which there
must have been a great misapplication, otherwise
they would have no occasion to come to that House
for assistance. There had been dissipated from the
Orphans fund 750,0001. which had been made a
'source of private emolument to the City, by abso-
lutely giving the money away. The Honourable
Gentleman then alluded to a brief statement of the
annual accounts printed for the use of the Corpo-
ration, from which it appeared that the Lord Mayor
and Aldermen made themselves debtors to the
amount of 53,0001. to a fund of which they were
the trustees, namely, that of Bridge-house Estates.
This fund was for the purpose of repairing London
Bridge, btu which they had diverted from its object,
without giving security for it to the estate : so that,
if there had been a severe frost this winter, and it had
carried away one, two, or three arches of the bridge,
they must have come upon the Orphans' fund to re-
build them. It was too lenient to call this a misap-
plication of the money entrusted to them—it was
actually an embezzlement of money for their own
extravagancies. But this was not the only misap-
plication of the Bridge-estate fund. By an ancient
charter they had jurisdiction in the Borough of South-
wark, but it had long lain dormant. It was to be ex-
ercised only by those ns who had passed the
Chair, and they had lately revived it, in order to create
a place for a decayed Alderman. This was a gross
and nefarious job, for there were thirtylour Jus-
tices of the Peace residing within the district.—
Thus, in the same division of the County, there were
now two Quarter Sessions held at the same time, and
two Grand Juries sitting, while no suitor knew at
which his case was going on. They had taken 15001.
to defray the expenses of this establishment; and this
ought to be investigated before more money was put
into their hands. As to the prison, never was any
thing more inadequate, or on the whole worse for the
purposes intended : even their own Members say it is
the most miserable thing they ever saw in their lives;
and was the House, then, to trust them with another
expenditure of $4,000/. when it was liable to be re-
paid in the shape of county rates ? One of their
pleas why Parliament should give them money was,
that they were bound to maintain jails in Middlesex
and London. Yet they would not suffer the Magis-
trates of Middlesex to enter their prison. They had
raised, on an average, 4,0001. a-year by fining per-
sons who they knew were in many cases incompe-
tent, from age and infirmity, by fining them for de-
clining to stand for Sheriffs ; and if this had been
properly applied, they would have had no occasion
to make the present application to Parliament. On
these grounds he thought there could be no objection .
to his rising to call the attention of the House to a
strict investigation of the administration of the go-
vernment of the City and their Police, to ascertain
that the money expended had been faithfully: applied.
He should therefore move for a variety of Accounts,
containing a statement of the Revenues of the City
of London for the last five years, ending December,
1817, distinguishing them under their several heads.
Sir WILLIAM CURTIS replied with much warmth
to the speech of the Honourable Gentleman. He had
never heard so gross a mis-statement. The Corpora-
tion, no doubt, ought to give in their accounts ; and
they were willing to do so, whenever, in their opi-
nion, it was thought they should be called on to give
them—(Laughter}—The City had to maintain jails,
not for themselves, but partly for all England, and
particularly for the whole County of Middlesex, at
an enormous expense. They had expended 19,000/.
in this way in the last three years, and not above a
ninth of it was occasioned by the City of London.
If they were obliged to maintain '2OO or 250 persons
after they were convicted, their funds were not ade-
quate to do it. They now came to the House only
to fulfil what they had sanctioned. The Honourable
Gentleman seemed to have a dreadful antipathy to
the City of London ; but the Corporation had no
objection to bring forward their account of the ex-
penditure of the 95,0001. It was a round assertion
to call any of their transactions a job, and he was
astonished to hear the Honourable Gentleman assert
what was not a fact. The City was bound to do what
they had done for the good of the public, and the
Money voted before was necessary for the support of
the prisons. Gentlemen must know the value of
ground in the City, where every inch must be pur-
chased by putting two or three guineas upon it—
(Laughter)—The Honourable Baronet descried the
operation of building the New Prison, and the diffi-
culty of finding ground fro- it, which rendered them
obliged to take the first spot that offered, and he
contended that there had been no prodigality in the
expenditure. He censured the allusion about embez-
zlement, and asked if the Honourable Gentleman
meant to accuse the Lord Mayor and Aldermen of
embezzling money ? The money from the Bridge
House Estate had been lent on the City's security,
which was quite a common case. There was no em-
bezzlement there. As to giving away snuff-boxes and
swords, it was a proud thing to know we had so many
heroes who had deserved such striking tokens, and he
was astonished at hearing such charges condemned,
more particularly the sums that had been voted to
the fund for the relief of the widows of soldiers and
seamen who had fallen in our defence, at the Nile, at
Waterloo, and so many other parts. It was no use
talking of what happened in the reign of King Charles,
who got 700,0091. out of their treasury, and at last
the House granted them their duty on coals, by which
it was soon repaid. But if he lived another year he
would change the name of that Fund, that it might
not be thought the City was embezzling the money
%r the support of their orphans. An unavoidable
debt of 31,000/. had certainly been created, by the

additions to the New Prison, and the (-ay
the House to enable them to pay it, coi pi,
not to come to them for any more 1.?
As to jails, we must have none now fin
the people sent to prison must have somet'-...,
their hearts and make them condurtahle...-.1)....
they must have their coffee, and the I
what ; while the high-spirited debtcr
King's Bench, live like a Gentleman, drirk
gundy, and then get whitewashed and laqL
creditors--(Laughter).--Ile then alluded
visions served in Newgate, and repeated 1
observations about the goodness of the !):e4,!,
to the meat, he thought each prisoner
a week, but he had since ascertaii.ed ; ..7
pounds, and this was enough (I,r a
be punished. If they wanted to have me:
tion about the quality of the provisio:),.
speak to Mrs. Fry, that good :,..
man ought to love—(Loud laughter Jr,.
and she would tell them. He knew thx.
Sheriff the Sheriffs used to send fo:ty
meat per week, in addition to the
and he thought they did so now ;
when Reform was the order of the day.
derstood that during the reign of a re!_r:T.;.7.
the donation had been discuntinae(i—, ..,
The Honourable Baronet concluded
an Amendment., that all the worn,
motion after " That," be omitted, and
inserted " An Account of the several
ments out of, and the Debts due to
Fund for the last six years ; as also of :le
of the sum of 95,0001. for building
Debtors in the City of London:

~I.~N

The question being put on the Arren,'-
Serjeant ONSLOW said, that n0t,....i..1,•%
facetious speech of the Honourable Per::_;
not heard a word from him in ar,swer
of his Honourable Friend, the Men!!;s:
When the City applied for now
spew, as his Honourable Friend ha(i said. •
had expended their money. The
net had, indeed, entered on every a ir.F•
tion before the House, and had eneleav,,.7;',:: •
away both the motion and the attention
to it. His Honourable Friend had said titatt:.
poration had squandered away money.
no crime in this, provided it could be prove,i
was not the money of others. Nobcdy suspeL2l
Honourable Baronet or his colleagues
embezzlement, but they were accused of r..,1
applied the City money to splendid dinner= a
profusion of trinkets. Let them s:eery to the 11-14
what they had done with the former 5L7.,.
thought that if their conduct had been so ptee.::::l
ought to have come forward and seconded
tion of his Honourable Friend, who had not
word about the treatment of prisoners, or
extraneous subjects mentioned by the
Baronet. Indeed, the answer of the
ronet was the most decisive ground to
(the Learned Serjeant) to support the motion.
Alderman WOOD, as the Honourable M.
the Honourable Baronet who hallowed
gone much more at length as to the sums cf
thought it necessity to say a few v.'„rds, les:
House might be impressed with the idea
Corporation had been spending the rr.,,ney
Bridge House Estates. He would, howe';er. •
Honourable Gentleman right, by stating.
one shilling of this money had been expendd
,or donations. As to the sum of 126,000!. ~„
in thirty-seven years, it was only between
four thousand pounds a year. This was Ow 7 S:l7
expenditure. The 20,0001. was not expended
dinner : in the cost was included the dinner FHr.:.
the Duke of Wellingten, which he had the
proposing: and as the Hall had been fitted
tainly with great grandeur for the first oct..
was ready for the reception of the person s.
entitled to the attention of the City cf
the Corporation had borrowed nu:trey, the:.
pay it. They had undertaken to make a
in the county of Surrey, a work in which that
was interested, and they would not have
raise sufficient funds without borrowint: it n
Bridge House Estates, for which, as the Her
Baronet had said, the security of the City h.l,
given. The extension of the City jurisdio-:; •. !
Borough, was that to which he had n.rer
friendly ; but the petitions from the •
the &tough were so numerous—such con:T.!:'
were continually made of the inconveniences
penses which grew out of their being obligi.]
tend Kingston or Guildford, that at last .!
necessary to accede to their wishes. With
ever, the Court of Aldermen had no more us
that House had. He then entered into a
statements connected with the expenditair
City, and contended that the inipruvenv.:
they had made had been of the greatest it..T.••—'
to the County of Surrey, as he would takes-7.,":',
self to say, the building of Blackfriars
other works paid for by the City, had in,rea
rental of the County by not less than .4(10!"''-',
Under these circumstances, in his opini,-5. 7
a right to come to Parliament for that :1..4. •
they now sought to obtain. They now Lair,. • •-:
House for 34,000/. because they had in ft...
thorized to do so when the subject N% 11. • •
connected was formerly under the e
the house. For his part, he was sorry tdc i.:'•:-
NVhitecross-strert had been enlarged ; but
been done, and great expenses had been •
consequence of what had passed within
and it was on this ground that they urged
sent claims. For this reason, and for this a: ::, •
should vote for the motion, though on any f.,:-.7t,"
casion he should be willing to have the accr!.!!-*--F!..:
(hived, as he was not afraid of their un,:cr..!..‘ • --
closest scrutiny. He, however, hoped ;:.,- IblP,
would not let the accounts of a pubic
brought forward on grounds like those on
motion was founded. The prison, on
which the 34,1X10/.. was called for, brou-,;-!.:
City an additional expense of 3000 i. rt'r •':''''• •••
This arose out of the removal of the dch:,
Newgate. The prison had been built to
persons, but there had never been more that ;
soners on the London side.
Mr. BARCLAY said, the worthy Ald,rrr :•
endeavoured to chew that the County of
ved great benefits from the manner in u•!:,::"•:
funds were applied. He wished to
betwfits were se lie 0.1,1,;1at.,,11 id -•

ex.7e:xl!

t are requested immediately to pay their accounts; and those to with a furthc
N. 6 hont the Testator was indebted may receive the amount of given to the
their demands by applying at the Manufactory. twit; he beli4
% . N.D. Particulars of the terms on which the Concern will be
, •
- divoced of may be had of Mr. Baby, New Ilall-greet i or gone nearer
Mr. 1,11. i Whitiingharn, A•hted, Birmingham. nourable Gel
1%1 Lichtield-street, liirruingbain, :LIRA January, 1818. that in qie la
~.
.... ,
„,..
. ,
..-
, ..-
~_
• • ..•
... . ,
. 4.
• ..-,
v. -___..........._
4

1,, to give 171 e County of Surrey all the benefit
c.-jay 13:idge, and had seemed to forget that
IBj ln, 01,,,1e, - ir.:o the City of London. He forgot
,
.other thing, which, unless he (Mr. Barclay)""
Eri,titen, was of no small importance, namely,
,hough the City o: London had in the first in-
ad'vanced the money for building Blackfriars
c, t, had afterwards i)een paid back to them by
which tkey were allowed to take from those
as,ed .long it. For the sums which the City
'advanced to the Commissioners of Sewers in
v, they would be returned ; but he feared there
Tittle prospect of the loans taken from the Bridge
Et,r.ei being repaid. Ile strongly objected
the call now made on the liberality of Parliament,
hued the course which had been taken by the
~,Dsahe Member who had brought forward the
en,,,,tion, and maintained that the County of
• paid, in the duty charged on coals re-
.vej had thro;:gli the port of London, her full propor-
, for the benefits she had received. If the City
:ed itsulf just as well as generous, he was sure its
• .5 would meet with support in that House; but
instead of this, choosing to be magnificent on one
otl:er occasha, the Corporation had thought fit to
ert to ether purposes that money with which they
At to !lave paid th.-ir debts, he thought it would
tsi.„: to his Honourable Friend (Mr. H. Sumner)
,tosvot t the present motion.
,s:JA)IES SILIW observed, it appeared to be
reJ that the City of London were bound to
,por: all the prisoners committed to Newgate,
;:11 prisoners of the Crown, and belonging to
County, were confined there. The City of Lon-
defrayed the the expenses of the jails of the County
liddlesex, though this he would contend they had
right to do. He argued against the present mo-
nd supported the amendment.
slr. B. SHAW remarked, the question before the
e was not whether or not it was correct that all
prisoners of the County of Middlesex should be
nnntted Newgate, hut e...ough had been seen of
e cnaduct of the City of London to satisfy the
.)lise, that unless paid in honour, in patronage, in
i,domeat, or in sonic way, they would never take
. themselves such a burden. The County of
...• and the other home counties, supported their
.Is, and while they did this, it was not correct
upon them to bear the expense of those of the
London.
Alderman ATKINS said, if the sums expen-
'.y the City in building Blackfriars Bridge, in
other improvements, and in paying to the
Find, had been placed out at interest, the
fund might by this time have been paid
over. He wished the sums annually paid
• City to the Fund, and expended in improve-
r, he set against the 750,0001. which had been
• .1-phans' Fund. He defended the application
to Parliament on the part of the City, and
having enlarged their prison to meet
the House, they had no right to expect
whole of the expenses should be thrown on

11-. 11. CALVERT could not see that the City had
ir r;1(•::r for calling upon any of the home counties
1 '!..:x excepted) to bear the expense of its jails.
e enrnise of the prisons in London and Middle-,
v.:n!yreater than any where else, the County was.
Iv: !: proportion, and could bear the burden.
k.I.II'.NNET shewed the alterations which had
:nal.e in the City Prison to have been necessary,
the imperfect manner in which it had been ori-
''y constructed. When he visited it, there were
.ors from Ludgate, from Middlesex, and from
-.! a. Those of London occupied the best part
?nson. The women were then all mixed, and
• ',,2licved they were now. The question before
I,lse, however, was not whether the prisoners
well used or not, but whether the Accounts
' 1!)t. produced ? He was decidedly of opinion i
[ht to be given. The worthy Alderman who
;,ken of the liberal treatment the prisoners re-
had mistaken the whole point at issue, and
while on this subject, he had fallen into
mistakes equally great. This he knew, that
:,,,atlernen, who were but the other day in the
n, liai 1,,e,t quite satisfied that the statement
Ile C,17. lienntr) had formerly made was in no
, 1 c,-;:r:':::tged. For the prisoners it was not
. ~I ,j:at any luxuries should be provided.—
, .:, t1.2-iv:3,7.td was, that the jail should be made
01:10 ;I 01 ':t,trna, and that those confined should
so atEt.ided to, that their imprisonment should
'la..; the effect cf disqualifying them for future

,t 1 y,

k. iiiIENFELL wished to know if the applica-
rz rna,le to the House to enable the City to raise
:ley is the way proposed would not, if attended
have the effect of ex:ending the period during
'di the duty on coals now paid was to continue ?
Sr IV. CURTIS said it would not prolong the
.t. for which the duty was to be paid beyond the
whic:i had been named as that in which it should
,1537.

S. THORNTON was of opinion the produc-
:of the accounts called for by the present motion
:•.,..ce.sary to give the House information. It
to be seen whether or not the City of London
ilficirnt fonds of its own to meet those ex-
on which the present application to the House
q!. 11. SUMNER, in r?plv, observed, that when
the present application, if 'mended to,
• cause the duty on coals to be continued
.:ear 1837, n ought to be remembered
at tie dvy was to cease defore that year arrived,
tae her. Qi the Orphans' Fund should become sooner •
.7(1. lle denied that the City had a right to call
•=ny (ounty but Mi.ddltstax to bear a part of the
prisons. He defended the use he had
tle word embezzlement in his opening
4:ideclared he knew of no other word that
con-tctly have described the transaction of
Orphans' Fund, he main-
:•;vl rIC,.. been satisfactorily accounted for. It
Y.!:T.V:: Low it had disappeared. The City
kiirp.vn nothing about it until he had
Tob;,N:t forward, The elder brethren of

4,1

l=tubers of

tb.e Corpomtion Lithe City of Lon-
r.(it'l-s!ood had cane down to that House,
, submit theur cane with respect to the
to Parliament, but with a thousand
pl.:;ent to Mr. Sj.eaker Trevor, who, in
.•
'4" i,.d been ob!iged wput the question on
•L. frc.gra the Chair, vd afterwards to

walk out of the House.—The house divided—. For the
Motion 24—Against it 11—Majority 15.