Star.
London, England, 1829-02-21 00:00:00

IMPERLiL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS. FEBRUARY 20.
• Mr. Silinteeu. presented tbeWis Report of the Commissioners
qpeinted to inquire into the payments of certain fees made at the;
General Register House in Edinburgh.
The Earl of DALHOUSIE presented a Petition from the Ma:
Ostrom Freehmders. mid other Inhabitants of Inverness, praying-,
fOr an alteration in the Excise Laws; also another Petition from
the same individuals, praying foe a* alteration in the laws relative
to Scotch Entails.—Ordered to lie on the table.
assocuidons IFOOPRISSION MILL.
On the motion of the Earl of Suerresseav the House resolved
Iteelf into a Committee on the Bill for suppressing illegalAsnacia.
dons in Ireland.
The LORD CHANCELLOR innved, as an amendasent to the
chew," That this Bill do apply to all such meetings as have been
declared illegal," the insertion of the words, and shall have been."
• - -
The Report was then brought up, and ordered to be received OD
Monday —The House then resumed.
The Marquis of SLIGO presented Petitions, praying for Ca-
tholic Emancipation, from four parishes in the county of Mayo.—
Orders d to lie on the table.
Lord KING presented a Pettlien from the Roman Catholic,
inhabitants of two parishes in the county of Kerry, praying for a
repeal of the Vestry and Sub-letting Acts.
The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved that, In consequence
of papers relative to the return of Lord Doially not having yet
ardved from Ireland, the Committee of Privilege., which stood
for Monday, be postponed until Wednesday.—Ordered.
cirneom scums.
. The Earl of. FALMOUTH presented Petitions from three
parishes in Cornwall, from a parish in Buckinghamshire, and from
14agford, in the county of Limerick. praying that no further
Concessions be granted to the Roman Catholics. The last petition
rayed for the Suppression of the Catholic Association, and for a
Revision of the Elective Prandial System in Ireland.—Ordered
toile on the table.
. The Earl of CARLISLE presented a Petition from two parishes
in the county of Galway. praying for Catholic Emancipation.
The Marquis of DOW NSIIIRE said, he had a Petition to
present in favour of tbe.Catbolie Claims, which was forwardedito
him from Ireland by a Gentleman who stated himself to be 'an
Alderman of the city of Limerick. The Petitioner, with whom
he (the Marquis of Downahire) professed to be perfectly unac-
quainted, strongly asserted that, up to the present period, he was
a violent opposer of the Catholic Claims, and had been an official
member of a Brunswick Club ; but expressed his contrition for
the part he had acted, and now declared himself a perfect convert
to the contemplated n foe their relief. He thought the
petition contained matter worthy of being
.beard, and therefore
begged pet mission of' the House to have it reed at length. The
Petitioner stated himself to be Alderman Watson, and concluded
by declaring his oppasition to the Catholic Claims to have arisen
more for the purpose of pleasing his Majesty's Government titan
with a view to intimidate or keep down the Roman Catholics.
The Earl of LI MERICK said he had been long connected with
the city of Limerick, and, from his knowledge of the Gentleman
whose signature the petition bore, if in reality the petition was a
true one, be could not sufficiently express his astonishment at its
contents; for. if there were a man more than another hostile to the
Catholic Claims, he should expect the worthy Alderman, if he be
the man. The whole tenour of the petition appeared to him ex-
treme!y marvellous. He Could not avoid expressing his strong
suspicions that it was altogether a hoax, and bad never been for-
warded by the Gentleman whose name it bore—( A laugh).
Lord KING observed, that, whatever reasons the Noble Earl
bad for thinking the petition to be a hoax, he thought he could
give him one good reason for its not being such; for, if so, he
thought it would have been placed in the hands of one of the late
converts, and not givetrto a Noble Lord who had so long argued
the cause of civil and religious liberty. In that case the hoax would
really have been a good one.
The Earl of LIMERICK hoped the Noble Lord did not mean
to apply his epithet of convert to him.
Lord KlNG—Never; be was toe well acquainted with the
Noble Earl's principles.
The Marquis of DOWNSH IRE expressed himself totally un-
acquainted with the petitioner ; therefore, if the petition were really
a hoax, be should wash his hands of it. One thing be felt con-
fident in saying, that the greatest portion of the community were
fully satisfied to leave entirely in the hands of his Majesty's Mi.
niaters the subject of Catholic Emancipation, convinced as he (the
Noble Marquis) was that they would do justice t.) the great cause
they b d espoused.
• The petition was ordered to lie on the table.
The Marquis of DO WNSHI RE, in presenting another Petition
from a parish in the county of Down, praying for Catholic Email-,
elpation, observed that be had bad frequent occasion to present
similar petitions from the same place. The petitioners in the pre.
• sent one expressed their delight at the change of appearances under
which they now addressed the House.
Similar Petitions were presented by the. same Noble Marquis
from a parish in the smutty of Antrim, and from Dismally and
AgobW.—Laid on the table. •
Lord HOLLAND said he rose to present three Petitions from
Roman Catholics of • Ireland, and sixteen other Petitions, all of
which prayed that their Lordships woold take into consideration
the laws affecting the Roman Catholics of the United Kingdom,
with a view to the removal of all civil and religious disabilities
whatever. Three of these Witless be. had stated to be from ca.
twins; the others were from Protestant Dissenters • and, as they
ail concurred in the one prayer, be would not trouble their Lord-
ships with going through them. But there was one to which be
thought it more particularly his duty to call their Lordships atten-
tion, as well on account of the character as the high station of
thepersons whose names-were subscribed to it. The brat pets.
tire, then, that he should present mine from a body of men wed
known in this country—it-was front the Dissenting Mioisters of
the three denominations in and adjoining the metropolis. It was
true those men were invested with no authority at the bar—it
was hue that they possessed no corporate seal—that they bad no
corporate ezistencein the country—it was true that they.enjoyed
no emolument under his illajeety's Government—it was true
that• they possessed no authority in the realm...they bad no
claims to any authority except those which their earnest seal
and pious lives bad given-them amongst their several congrega-
dons t but although they bad no other emoluments than those
which resulted front the exercise of their many virtues, yet they
bad long been recognised in the country as the descendants and
representatives of those great men who negodated the memorable
Act of Toleration. and who, from the first period of their history,
had ever felt the warmest attachment to civil and religious
body, and dutiful sfkction to the family on the throne. Without
the slightest intention of drawing any comparison, he might be
permitted to say, that there was no class of individuals in the
causer y to whom the Royal Family were so deeply indebted for
their Crown as the Protestant Dissenters; and it afforded him
pleasure to say that the King upon the Throne had always condo.
wooded to receive that body of men whose Petition be had now
the honour to present to the House. The Dissenters amohntedto
three millions and a half, exclusive of the Wesleyan Methodists.
The opinion of those Diameters widely differed from the erroneous
character of the Church of Rome, but they .had ever been
most keen and active in detecting all approaches to the in.,
fringement of civil and religious liberty, and were even most zeal-
ous tor the exclusion of tyranny, and the first to oppose it. When
they called therefore en Government to extend civil and religious
liberty to all classes, and especially to their R.Sman Catholic id.
low subject*, there was no authority that would weigh more with
him (Lord Holland) than the authority of that body, the nuniber
of Ministers connected with which were ninety-two, sixty-three
of whom had signed the Petition; and it was welt known that,
at the Meeting ceernmed on the occasion, the Peddon was voted
by a majority of no less than three tome. He thought it* duty
to make these remarks, and be biped their Lordships would re-
ceive with some degree of attention the Petition of men who were
the successors of a Watts; a Doddridge, and a Lardner. The
Noble Lord cendudtti by requesting that the Petition might be.
reed at length.
After which lard HOLLAND rose asin. and said, that the
next Petition be would present to the Howe was from a Corpora-
don of which he bad theltonour of being a- member; it was from
the Corporation of Nottingham. He should make only a tray few
observations upon it. ,:Many Noble Lords must have known that
that Corporation bad been ever most forward in the cause of civil
and religious liberty; that Corporation was the first to address
Prince William m his arrival in He thought it his duty

to say, although be did not see, a Noble Duke whom- be wil,Ungly
would have seen in his place., that the novo frumwhicisahq Petition
come was ne which fur three successive Parliaments sent Itepro.
'connives to the noose of Commons who were not only in favour
of Catholic Emancipation, but were ever the most strenuous sup-
porters of in—The Petition was then read.
Member Petitions were Irons she Congregation of a Upitarian
Chapelin Northampton; from Paraflbse.street Chapel, in Lien..
pool; from two places in Lancashire; from Crediton, in Devon.
shire; three Chapels in Northampton; Warehanl. in Dorset; two
Polishes is Nottingham, soda Palmitin Sulkillt;aod another Parish
la Chester.
The threellontan Catholic Petitions were than read.and laid on
the table. They were front Miele; Tresford; in Kilkenny; and
The Earl of 001170 RD pteeented niersl reddest to the issue
deet from !redoes Parishes in the county of .A,lasti, which were
htht es the table.uortie Hi.ieilea adjoined.
•

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
lIIIMILIMMTION Or .41110 AD
Mr. ESTCOUB,T having *tied N Thee a new writ be Wood '
for the election of L. Member f repreaeot ths tiolversirr of Os- ,
61rd, in -the-Pace stf the Right Honounible Robert Peel. who Mai
,accepted the Stereseiship if. the Citilteni.Hundreds;*
• 1
GeiteraI:GASCOIME to ,k asswelintv, to espress bill
'apprabation of the conduct of the Right Honourable
:Secretary the Home Department, who, having
thought fit to depart town those principles which he
professed to his constituents' st the time t t his election,
sow manfully came forward to afford them as oppor-
' tun:ty of confirming their approbation of his present
conduct, or of retracting their suppod. What the re-
stilt of that appeal to the op.nions of his constituents by
the Right Honourable Gentleman might be,.he (Gen.
Gaut yne) could not :pretend to say, but. he was glad
that the opportunity bad been r ffered ; and he tliought
it allbrded a laudable example to atl those who saw
things in what he might call the new light—(Hear).
He trusted, indeed, that all those who came* into that
House with the profession of the same principles as those
of the Right Honourable Gentleman at the time of his
election, and were now stricken by the new. light,
would come to the conviction that it was equally twee.
say for them to follow his example, and make the same
appeal to the opinions of their constituents. He. wins
well aware that what fell from an humble individdal
such as he was could make vety little impression upon
such occasions; but he was very much inclined to think
that the day of retribut:on was not far distant—not by
any means so di.tant as some persons seemed to ima-
gine-_a day of retribution for political apostacy, in
which they will be visited with the disapprobation, if
not with the anger, of their constituents. How, indeed,
these persons could reconcile it to their feelings to re.
tain their seats lie was unable to imagine. Polifcai
measures, he hoped, newer would inartere with the ex.;
ercise of the social feelings; and he was confident that,
if they persisted in refusing to follow the example of
the Right Honourable Gentleman, they would be as
much lessened in public and political estimation as they
must feel lessened in their own. The Honourable Memu
bee concluded by expressing a hope that those persons
would follow the example of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. HOIIHOUSE approved as well and as highly
as others of the conduct of that Right Hon. Gentle-
man, Mho had thus given his constituents an opportsr
nity of re considering the propriety of his. Parliamen-
tary conduct. &nee he had - the honour of a seat in
that House, which was now a period of nearly ten
years, he had always thought that it was impossible
for the ties which bound together the constituent and
the representative to be knit too closely, and he had
therefore been a constant advocate of Parliamentary
Reform, as founded and bottomed upon that very pt iu-
ciple. He bad now strong hopes that the Gallant Ge-
neral, who contended so strenuously for the tights et
the people, and the propriety of consulting their judg-
ment.: would be found am ing his most strenuous•sup•
pore's whenever that measure of reform was agaisr
brought forward; and, indeed, from his arguments.in
(avow of Coostitutiitial rights, he had alniost.a title'to,
ask for his vote. He did not very clearly understand.
the meaning of the expressions which do pped from thii
Gallant 'General upon the subject of political apostacy,
He was 'confident, however, that the conduct of the
Right Honourable Gentleman, and of those with
him who had changed their opinions, did not de-
serve such an appellation. The Right Honourable
Gentleman, when he addressed the House on a recent
occasion, expressed a hope that he should be allowed
to apply to himself the words of an ancient author—
Non Inman entm rumores ante stamens.
As that Right HonourabieGentleman was now present,
be•would take leave to apply to him the succeeding line,
Ergo postque. magiaque yid mane Gloria claret(Hear). •
General GASCOYNE did not recollect brain used the words.
political apostacy; but if he did, it was not his intention to apply
them to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Pet)).
-- WOOD brought In a Bill the bitter *regulation

Alderman . _ for t«
of Smithfield Marketo—Roid a Ali dine. and ordered to be Printed.
Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a Petition from the inhabitants
of St. James, Westminster, in (avow of the Bill for regulating the
appointments of the Vestry.—Referred to a Committee.
Mr. lIOBHOUSE presented a Petition, signed b three hun-
dred of the resident householders of the parish of Sc. Paul, Covent
Garden, in favour of the Bill fur altering the powers placed in the
Veitry.—Referred to a Committee..

lie. G. MOORE press-wed six similar Petitions from different
parts of Ireland—one from the county of Carlow three from the
et Tipperary, and no from Xing Mouldy. The llososkratite
and Learned !Amber described them as -Wog signed by manya'
tbeNoWSty; Illagiuracy,:Chergy. end kuspeetable Teltabitedlik
the pad. from whence tblrycone...beledeged to be Rids&
Chimed CUST presented Petillna at's dmilat khariceer
iM lakapitants of the Parielfisf lllMllsory, county orChased', •
Lord PALMERSTON, In prearnii* two Petitions from the
Parishes of Drumcbffe and Newton St. John's, county of Slip.
in haunt of the .Citholic Qahns, said that the Petitioners were
well known to be peaceable and swell conducted, and fie was stirs
that no Petitions were more deluding of attentioo.—Ordered be
tie on the table. - • •
blr. W. PEEL brought up the First Repast of the Commis-
sioner. appointed to oilman tato the Practice and Proceedings of
the Courts of Law.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the House, at its rising, do adjourn to Monday nest.--Agreed IS.
SUPPLY—ARMY ESTIM A TES.
' The CHANCELLOR of thy EXCHEQUER moved the Or.
der of the Day, that the House de resolve itself into a Committee
of Supply, and that the Army. Estimates be *ferns' to said Coma
mister.
' On the motion that the Speaker do leave the Chair,
Mr.MABERLY said, that although he could not at
present expect the House t t give much of its attention
to this or any other but one subject, yet the sense of an
imperious duty compelled him to offer some observa-
tions upon some part of the conduct of Government,
which he thought would have a most injuri It. effect
Upon the public purse of the country. It had been
stated, or it was easy to be inferred horn what had been
said, that the Finance Committee, which sat with so
much advantage to the country last year, was not to be
te-appointed, or, at all events, it was not to be appointed
until a period of the Session at which its labours could
have no effect upon the estimates of the year. When
they considered the language in which the finances pi
the country were recommended to their deep attention
la his Majesty's Speech of 1828, and when they coo.
sidered that the appointmeotwf the Finance Committee
at that time was held to be of such impostanee as to
cause the postponement of all financial questions for
the time, be thought the House would agree with bins
is thinking it strange that the investigations of thit
Committee were to be cut short before they could have
:produced their expected beneficial results. Five Com.
mimes of this description had been appointed before at
different periods, and in all the cases they they bad been.
iseffered to proeeed to their final Report. From the Re-
ports which this last Finance Committee did make. it
'was easy to collect that they had an inteution e# laying
•before the House a summary of the revenue and ex.
ipenditure of the country for the present year, as the
ground-vrotk upon which they should proceed to. v
,Ose Estimates. On that account they had, postpo
making a Report upon a great mass of evidence which.
ithey had collected upon some of the heads of expencli-1
:tore, but into which they had not so fully inquired 'as
:they intended to do. When the Right Hon. Gent. fint
'proposed the Committee, he sltoati most forcibly and
',ably the necessity which existed for its appointment,
land he thought the-Government were now bouud .to
show in what manner that necessitrhad been yenscived:
'The Hon. Member then- tektite& se Mr. Peel's speech
'upon moving the appointment of the Committee, Md.
•proceeded to eulosixe its serviced and exertiooh and the
inf,rmation supplied by Mr. Herties and SW It Liar;
tdinge. Lis was aware of no change in the circuns•
stances of the country which rendered its finances no
(longer a-matter worthy of care. If the appointmenCof
.the Committee was ri4ht in 1828, in justice to his bias
jesty's Speech, in justice to the declarations of the Go-
vernment, and to the proceedings of that House, it
:ought to be re-appointed. The Hon.-Member then re-
:capitulated what the Committee had done, and pointed
out other objects which they bad in view withrespect to
:the numbers and expenditure of the Army and Navy.
if the present course were pursued, the country could
!sot expect much' produce from taxation. The Cps.
suttee of Finance had been given up; the whole of the'
information it bad collected was to be thrown away,
and against that he protested. Government, as condi-

toted,—would never Carry into effect say serious recipe.
tions. Every bead of every department had its pude.
cular business to attend to, and therefore no systemic,
reduction, perfect and effectual, could be expected to
be entered into. He admitted, hooever, that the Seat:
tary.at War had acted efficiently.. He contended that
the Navy Pay Office bad in pay forty civics, •beanie.
• ' • The

_ . .
. .
. • . • ROMAN CATHOLICS. could discharge the duties. Th. same remark applied
Mr. It. A. TAYLOR presented a Petition from-the Protestant in a degree to many or most of the Public Offices. Be.
Dissenters of South Shields in favour of the Catholic Claims. sides this, nothing had been done with the Public As.,
Sir JOHN COTTERRLL presented a Petition from the Arch.
which t ießightHonourable counts, respecting I
deacon and Clergy of Hereford, and from the Dean and Chapter bt
the Cathedral Church of Hereford, against all concession to the tary for the Home Depai tment had 'on a previousocca.
Caine& Claims: • sion said much. He therefore was extremely sorry to
Mr. V. STUART presented Petitions in f of those Claims hear that the Committee of Finance was not likely to
front BaUydut, and 14 other places in the county of Waterford.
be actively employed.
Mr. C. N. PALLMER • presented a Petition from the Clergy
and Inhabitants of Albury, in Surrey. From the great respects- ..Sir H. PARNELL said, that the Committee of Fi.
bility of the individuak from whom it came, but still more from nonce, in pursuance with their duties, would have, as'
the peculiar energy of the appeal which it contained, be implored speedily as possible prepared leftist, respecting the
fie itinoro than ordinary attention on the part of the House. He navy. theta.
then army, but time had not .been allowed the.
then read over the petition, which prayed that no further canes.
steel he granted to the Roman Catholics. In the many COnVena. He bore testimony to the great exertions made by the
tigers which had lately taken place in that House upon this Monufr members of the Committee, notwithstanding the ro•
tees question, he had hitherto taken only a silent part, and he. mat ks which had been oikde respecting their premised
&said content himself for the present to do so, aware of the sit& delay. The Committee had •• gone through almost fill
tufty and inconvenience which attended irregular discussions on examinations necessary, and • were not the Com
great questions; but principally, he would cr,nfess, front a much Ilse
higher consideration. He meld not bat feel It decorous as well as mittee laid aside, it would soon be prepared to make
fast to his opinions until the measure promised from the an efficient, and he believed a useful Report, upon the
had been submitted to the House. He would not conceal, navy especially. He manna
however, that from what had passed in that and another place, behied that a Committee,
waited for their communicatioo with an intense anxiety. He had constituted as that Committee was, was the very best
some very painful misgivings upon the subject. Enough had already means th.t could be taken for arriving at a real know.
occurred, unhappily, to shake his confidence in public men :but be ledge of the financial affairs of the country. It was
was not yet prepared to mistrust his Sovereign. Ile would not yet utterly impossible for any Ministry to do what that
balkye that a Monarch, whose family owed their title to the crown
Committee adobe have done, With respect to the Co-
.--
of these countries, to the protection the Constitution had 'thrown
drsor a Protestant Church,. could be advised to come to his people lonia' 'mem, on that point particularly the Committee
with a Speech in the words of his Coronation Oath, and with the might - have tendered' many eminent services. That
degkeefor lbe•romeeel4 lie "anti" defence of that Church, and consideration alone ought to induce the revival of the
the vital principles of the Constitution—The petition wan ordered
to be pri rated,
Committee. By the inquiries of the Committee net
Init JOHN BRYDORS presented a Petition from the parish only might thecost Incurred through the Colonies be
sal/gdfroat county of Middlesex, against the Catholic Claims. The greatly reduced, but the Colonies Might at the sane till*
Hen. Member said it was needless for him to make any deciart be benefited. The Committee had also. made sense inn
den et his epialongos they were already well knows, ._ ._
portant inquiries respecting•the money paid to prevent
Alderman ATE Nil presented a Petition praying for a Hill to
regulate &. Thrintaea Hoepltel; . . and detect smuggling. The Committee bad actuißT,
Mr. ASHUItST presented s Petition from the. Mayor, BSSdiscovered that no less than 700,0001. bad been ea•
man Ca
and Commenalty of Oxford, against further eatcsisioits to thit,ilo. pended to prevent that nefarious practice. Lad ha
tholics.
Mr. DUNCOMBR presented two similar Petitions from the was prepared to say, that plan might be devised
a
parish of Giimatbarpa.-41,d stiotber parish in Yorkshire.' 1 • to•prosont smuggling without any great diminution
Lord EDWARD SOMERSET presented -three 'elmil:r Pal- of the • revenue. Tobacco and brandy wee. the
ciao from the Deaneries of Stowe and Caoder, and the rural principal articles smuggled. On the former *beat
Deanery of Godatowet in the county of O)oucester,—Ordered to
3,000,Ut.5.' :wore collected, end upon the latter about
Ile on the table.
. • Lord EDWARD SOMERSRT presented a Petition froni the t 11500,0001. As to the Public' Accounts, that was a
habfunti and householders of Cheltenham against ttielsoese and 'subject upon which the Committee could have arrived,
nur.
an excellent at a regular him without much difficulty, They bad
tallies
... sv.tivlSit felt great pleasure hi 'eeioedini this Petition.— precedent to go upon.; be .would not say
Ordered the table.
' Mr. P. WEST' . ', ced i Petition from Ike Inhabitants of the the best possible, because be bad heard that the Thatch
'Parish of Denbigh. county Elf Denbigh, spiel the.githolie Claims. was better: But what he . was pa, ticalarly anxious to
t
see was the Fourth Report, followed up by a Report of
Air. DICKII4SON preoented a similar Petition from the lam.
:bltants'of the Town of Castlepary. ' • ,• . . the army, in which the whole expenditure of the country
Mr. 6., MANKES presented a similar. Petition from Barton.
wpsn-Trent. It came from a part of the country with which he Was modes He maintained that the industry of the
had pokiest icqtraintance ; 'but he could Say, upon vita foundation, count, y was oppressed by the present systearof matron.,
that the Petitioners were all mils :table bonselsolders of that teem, They tined. the. eery articles upon which Wintry was!
and that amen that claw the Marini, were ilellto ei.Ottain't 4" employed to the extent of 8,000,0001. a year. The in.
,Catholica—( Hear). .
..
; _Strt LAMB Preseitted Petition Oom tho' CnthOlkinhahitatiti* dttstrr owl. wealth of the country bad enahled.the Criun
iltbir Parishes ot.ctingarvon and Abbeyside, comity or Waterford, try to meet its difficulties; but if they were hampered.
jiniing Sir the tensovitorthe don tusitistite: OTibe Roma o Cathode.. bow was the country to'be drawn from its present st.te
-Mr. C'AREW.presesitAl i sinitlar Pukka irion tifs'iltoeian pa- il a ansbaviaasanintl
l 'He knew it Arnold. be 'asked, how
*sac Inhabitants of a Parish in the county of Wexford. ..
CA LcR AFT ?reamed a anon potion from a coffins. I was the revenues to be made up to what would be lose
Vidrarlan Dissenters in the town Miter al V
aanipm - raw. materials' He was act
.
•