Star.
London, England, 1829-02-17 00:00:00

CATHOLIC CLAIM.

The Marquis of CH ANDOS 14id, he had to present
a Petition from the Ilt.rough and Pars•h of Buckingham
against the claims of the Roman Cotholics. The Noble
MarquiVob.er red, he fully concurred in the prayer of
the petition, and, as one of the Representatives of the
county of Buckingham, he felt it his duty to say, that
the great mass of the people of that county were op.
pcsed to the Catholic Claims, and that their sentiments
had remained unchanged since they had read the
S, arch from the Throne. He would lose no opportu.
pity of stating his opinions to the House with reference
to these questions, viewing, as he did, with alarm and
Jamey, the recent decla►ations it his Maje►ty's Minis.
ters, which he believed calculated to change the Cod-
taitution of the country—that Constitut on under which
the country had so long thriven. He implored the
House to pause and reflect before they came to any de-
cision. He would offer to the proposed measure all the
opposition in his power before it passed the House;
but, when it did pass, be should recommend passive
obedience. The Noble Lord then presentei Petitions
against the claims of the Roman Catholics, from Buck-
ingham; from Aylesbu►y; from the Patishes of Ink-
ford, Towersall, Halton, Newport Pagnell, Tadbory,
Stoney Stratford, Oldney, Berkhempstead, and eighty
other parishes in the county of Buckingbam.—Ordered
to be laid en the table.
The Marquis et CHA N DOS said, be bad now presented Pad-

.

.
don
pe signed by upwards of tooo prow and he moved that they
be r inted. - •
Lord NUGENT said, as soloed those petitions itro-
cecled from places contained within the town he had
the honour to represent, he felt it his duty to state,
that, with revert t.' such place, the Noble Marquii
had been misinformed. He was bound not to allow
the s atement of the Noble Lord to pa.s oncontradicted,
e (Lord Nugent) had been returned by 5,090 per-
sons without canvass and without expense, although his
sentiments were well known.
The Marquis of CHANDOS maintained that the
opinions of the great majority of the county of Bucking-
ham upon this question remained unchanged. There
were, doubtless, shades of difference among the consti.
tuents of the Noble Lord, but he (Lord Chandos) would
deny that the majority thought with the Noble Lord
He would leave the question to be decided by the issue
of the next general election.
Lord NUGENT repeated his statement concerning the mod
meets of the parties to whom he bad referred.
Sir G. WARRF.NDER said that there were in&
viduals possessing large estates in the county of Buck-
ingham who had expressed ophiions opposed to those of
the Noble Lord who presented these petitions. With
regard to the degree of importance to be attached to the
petitions, he would ask the Noble Lord if any notice
had been given to the inhabitants of the parishes from
which they came for public meetings to consider the
question ? Unless such meetings had been held, 112
contended that the petitions could only be taken as con-
'eying the sentiments of 7 000 individuals, and that it
might be firly inferred from their silence that the rest
of the county were ether quite contrary in opinion, or
neutr.l upon the subj ct. When he heard that the utii-
vet sal opinion of the county .of Buckingham was against
the Catholic claims, he could not help stating the result
of his own experience; and I,e would remind the Noble
Lord that he himself had admitted, at his el. ction, that
there was a difference of opiaion among his constituents
sr' that question.
Petitions ordered to be printed.
The Marquis of CHANDOS me notice that he would move,
on to-morrow evening, for a call of the House on Thursday, the
6th of ',Loeb.
Sir R. INGLIS presented a similar Petition from a parish In
the county of Warwick, which had been signed since the publics.
Lion of the King's Srech.—Ordered to be printed.
Colonel SIB t HORPE, in presenting a Petition
against further concessions to the Roman Catholics
from the Churchwardens, Householders, and Inhabi-
tants of a palish is the county of Lincoln, said that the
numerous petitions of a similar character which had
en committed to the care of the Noble Marquis. and
the respectability of the parish whose sentiments were
expresso.] in the petition entrusted to him (Colonel Sib-
thori.i), afforded a strong roof that the feeling of the
count, y was adverse to the admission of the Catholics
to political nosier.
Sir. ROBERT HERON begged to ask the gallant
Colonel, it the feeling of the iountry was so general
against fir !her conee-sion to the Catholics, how it hap-
pened that out of fifty-.wo counties only two had es-
pres‘ed a feeling of the kind ?
Colonel SIBTHORPE said, that the country was
totally tinacqu,i,ited, until very lately, with the mea-
sure. in cuatempl stion by Ministers, in whom they had
reposed ctmfideoce—he would say, a misplaced confi-
d nee. No however, that their views were explained,
the oils- lic leeliny would not he slow in declaring itself.
Air. SIII It I.EY presented Petitions from the Congregation of
dui l'rt.hyteriJn Church of the Parish of Stonebridge, o unty of
Monaghan; trout Drum. in the county of -Nlonagban ; and from
the Clergy and Parish ut 3lockno, county of Monaghan, against'
further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
Mr. ROWLAND HILL proninted a Petition from the lido.
bitauts of the Parish of St. Asaph, county of Salop, against further
orincessions to the Roman Catholics.
Mr. EG ERTON presented a similar Petition from Lyme, in the
county of Chester.
Mr. P. M QUEEN presented a similar Petition from Ilitchin, is
Boitordsh"tr.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. WILLIAM FLTZG ERA ID presented a Petition from
the Roman Catholic Inhabitants of Naas in favour of the Catholk
Claims.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented similar Petitions from the
Roman Catholic inhabitants of the parishes at the Holy Trinity
and St. Patrick. itsthe city of Waterford.
Mr. SPRING RICE rose to present Petitions in fa-
vour of the Cuholic Claims from the parishes of Ro•
beastown, Ballynakill, and Shanagolden, county of
L'inetick. The Honourable Member said, that tie
House would pay greater attention to the interests of
the Catholic body in consequence of the Association
baying been voluntarily dissolved, than if it had not fz-
hibited a disposition to attend to the sentiments of the
Crown and the Legisl4ture. He was gratified by hear-
ing to-day the, nor only was the Catholic Asosciation
dissolved, but also all the societies in Leland organized
for the same pu•pose. He hoped that those established
for opposite views would enter into a generous rivalry
vt ith their late opponents, and lose no time in foliating
their example.
Mr. TItANT said that the Associatii ns to which the
lion Member had just alluded were of a different cha-
tarter (tom the Catholic Association, and did not merit
the description given to that body io the Speech (tom
the Tht one.

Mr. sYKESprewnted a Petition In favour of the Catholic
Claims, trout Kingston upon Hull.
Ms OTWAY CAVE said that, to show the state of
public feeling nn the question, he would mention one
fact :—The day before the meeting of Parliament a
public meeting had been held in the town he had the
honour of representing. at which a Petition was resolved
upon in favour of the Catholic Claims, and only (me
hand was raised a..ainst ir. Three years ago Leicester
bad been quoted as being among the places most trio.
lowly tippnsed to the measure.
Mr. WOOD (of Preston) said that an lion. Member
(General Gascoyne). in presenting a Petition from Liver-
pool against concessions to the Catholics, had stated
that a similar Petition might shortly be expected from
Preston. This statement had excited the greatest sur-
prise in that town; and he was en 'bled to say that, in
soaking it. the Gallant General may have been misin-
formed. There were ceitainly highly respectable in-
dividuals in Preston opposed to the claims of the C t.
/holies bat tey entertained no idea of petitioning. lie
would read a note which he had received from an infi..-
Ibitant of that pl .ce relative to the Gallant Genera.%
statement. The Hon. Member commenced reading the
"ante refer red to. when
The SPEAKER called the Hon. Member to order, and said
that the Hun. Member must feel that it was against the rules of
that House so read a note referring to a previous debate.
Mr. WOOD resumed, and said it was not the intention of his
constituents to present any petition against the measure, and thal,
if shy were attempted, it would be met by a counter petition.
The Honourable Gentleman concluded by presenting a Petition
from a Unitarian Congregation in Hull in favour of the Catholic
Claims.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHRULL presented a Petition from
the Archdeacon and Clergy of the Diocese of Canterbury against
further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
Mr. G EORG R MOOR E presented similar Petitions from East
Mu►ketry and West Musketry, in the county of Cork, and from
'Nemesia,' Inhabitants of parishes in the county of Donegal.
Mr. H. M AX WELL presented a Petition from the Inhabitants
of the town of AlohaU, in the county of Leitrim, against further
crincessions to the Unman Catholics. Th. Hon. Member also
presented Petitions against the Catholic Claims from the Prom-
tint Inhabitants ef kaniseontiy. from the Parish of St. Mary,
front Irednateers, la the county of Fermaaagb, and from Mei

Otstlnnen, Clergy, and InhaWants of the parish of Carriceßan,
In She county of Fermanagh.
Mr. PETIT peessoted a Pedtloo pf a similar character from
the Ishebttahts of Bishop's Menkton.
Mr. MACLEDD presented Petitions from several Parishes iti
Sudbury, against the Catholic Claims. The Hos. Member stated,
that all these -Petioles, bad been signed dace the circulation of the
King's Speech, and that although the language of them was re-
spectful,yet it was stronger than the Petitioners bad ever steed before,
while the numbers by which they were signed were greeter than on
any former occasion. He bad given only one vote on this subject;
that vote was against the claims of the Catholics; and he saw no
reason to give a different vote. He regretted that the people of
this country, who, in his opinion, were decidedly hostile to the
Catholic claims, should. in returning Members to that House, be
so careless as to allow the vote of one of their Members to neutralise
the vote of the other. This was the cam in the county of Kent,
and 26 counties In England were in the same situation. The people
were now about to suffer the penalty of such carelessoess.—The
Petitions to be printed.
Mr. F. WESTpresented two Petitions from parishes in Denbigh
against any further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
Mr. HART DAVIS presented a Petition from the inhabitants
of Bristol against the Catholic claims, and another from the parish
of Sc. Jacob to the same effect.

Admiral SOTHERON presented Petitions front the Minister
and Churchwardens of East Markham ; from West Drayton ; from
ilbelford ; from Brenton-Joyce ; from the inhabitants of Cutting*
ham • from the inhabitants of Wodborough ; from the Inhabitant"
of the town of Foxford ; and from the inhabitants of the town of
Lorton, all In the county of Nottingham, against further concessior
to the Roman Catholics.

Lord ENNISMORE presented a Petition from the Roman Ca-
tholics of Listowell, in the county of Kerry, praying for Catholic
Emancipation, and another from sense ether parish in the same
.county against the Vestry and Sub-letting Acts.
The LORD MAYOR moved for returns of the
quanties of tobacco which bad been made into cigars, and also for
some other return. upon the same subject.
Mr. PALMER presented four petitions front places,
he Berkshire, against any further concession to the Roman Ca-
tholics. The Hon. Member stated, that he always thought it his
duty to oppose any measure having foe its object the granting po-
litical power to the Catholics, but he never said that the time
might not come when the creation ought to be taken into consi-
deration, with a view to a satisfactory adjustment of the Roman
Catholic Claims. He had always had confidence in the individuals
who compose his Majesty's Ministry, and be would not say, until
he knew what the measure would be which they intended to bring
forward, whether he would be compelled to oppose it. He was
willing to fulfil the injunctions of his Majesty, and take the subject
Into consideration ; and in doing so be hoped to divest himself of
prejudice—(Htar). The Hon. Gentleman then presented the pe-
titions, which were from the Archdeacon and Clergy of Berko—
front the inhabitants of Weitkorp—and from the borough of Wal-
lingford, in the county of Berks—aU praying that no further con-
cessions should be made to the Roman Catholic&

Mr. ASHURST rase to present Petitions against
Catholic Emancipation from the Archdeacon and Clergy of the
diocese of Oxford; from Whitney, in Oxfordshire; and from the
Inhabitants of Springford, in the same county. The Hon. Member
said that, believing as he did that the admission of the Roman Ca.
tholics to political power would tend to endanger the security of the
Protestant institutions of this country, he fully concurred in what
had fallen from the Hon. and Learned Member for Louth, that, if
the qutation was to be at all settled, it ought to be done upon Pro-
testant principles. It had been said that this measurewas to he brought
forward for the purpose of conciliation; but be (Mr. Ashurst) was
of opinion that no measure which should be brought forward could
have the effect of pleasing at once the Right Hon. Gentleman and
the Roman Catholics of Ireland. He was led to this conclusion in
consequence of referring to a Petition which bad been presented to
that House by the Roman Catholics of Ireland, is which they stated
that the grievance of which they complained was, that they were
obliged to pay a Church of which they were not members. He
should regret the pacing of the proposed measure • but, if the Dili
was to be carried in spite of the opposition to be snide, then he (Mr.
Ashurst) should direct his attention to rendering the meant, as
satisfactory as possible to the Protestants of this country.
The Eall of BECTIVE presented some Petitions'
from places in Meath and Westmeath, in Ireland, against the
Vestry and Sub letting Acts. The Noble Lord said that the opera-
tion of the lamer Act was peculiarly *afoul to the inhabitants of
towns, as persons who had often expemM large sums of money on
the improvement of houses were prevented from letting them with.
out the consent of their landlords.

Admiral EVANS presented a Petitioo from the Pro.
testant inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood of
Wexford, praying that no further concession might hal
granted to the Roman Catholics. The petitioners,
among other allegations, stated, that at the late election
the Catholic Priests had conducted themselves in such
a manner as to show the danger of a union of civil with
spiritual power. H tying the honour of representing the
town of Wexford, he hoped he might be permitted to
say a few words on the subject. Every one must re-
collect the horrible and melancholy circumstances
which occurred in that town in 1798. It was impos-
sible that the Protestant inhabitants could bury those
circumstances in oblivion. That, however, was an ex-
pression the exact interpretation of which might be
misconceived ; since it had appeared on a recent occa•
slots that bur) ing a matter in oblivion was interpreted
to mean, bringing it forward immediately under the
recommendation of the Crown—(A laugh). Tire Ro.
man Catholics declar ed that they would be satisfied with
nothing shod of unconditional emancipation. Were
the PI otecant. prepared to grant that ? And if either
party mu.t give way, ought it not to be the party which
formed but a fourth or a fifth part of the population of
the Empire, rather than the party possessed of so large
a majority of numbers, and by which a family bad
been expelled from its Throne for its adherence to Ca-
, tholic principles? He hid heard an Hon. Member
opposite say that he should be happy to see a Catholic
in his place in the Hou eof Commons. If care were
not taken, that Hon. G: ntlernan would have the satis-
faction of seeing a Catholic not only in his place in the
House of Commons, but in his place in the country—
(A laugh). As a member of a Protestant community,
he must solemnly declare that no foreign pots er ought
to interfere in any of the affairs of this country, or to
have a scintilla of power as connected with it. He
must, roost strongly, but most conscientiously, oppose
the measure which was about to be introduced.

Mr. G. 0. MOORE rose to bear testimony to the
respectability of the individuals whose names were at.
tached to the petition. With most of them he was per-
sonally acquainted; and he highly valued their society
as men of honour, honesty, and consistency. They had
requested of hem to suppor t their petition, and he felt a
pleasure in doing so. •
Lord NUGENT then tose to present the petition of
*hich he had given notice from the general body of the
English CAtholres. He had also petitions to present
atom Oxfordshire and Somersetshire. The general pe.
tirion was signed by the Duke of Norfolk (Earl Mar-
s!,al), by eight peers, seven baronets, and about 18,000
other person-. The Noble Lord said it had been fee.
quently his lot, under circumstances much less auspi-
cious to the petitioners, to unroduce their complaints to
the notice of the House, and, if he now requested the
attention of the House in wparticular manner upon the
present occasion, it was because he hoped that he should
iiow• for the list time have an opportunity of address-
ing them on behalf of a body of men who contained
amongst them some of the most illustrious names iu the,
kingdom. It had been untruly stated of these peti.
tioners, that they were inconsistent with themselves in
asking for utqu .lified emancipation, whilst they were
teddy to accept something short of that. They had
demanded a total and complete re-admission to their
full rights, and to ask for less would be to bet ay their
duty to themselves, to their great ancestors whose
names they bole, and to their posterity. There
was no inconsistency in their conduct. They asked
for a full restitu ion of their rights; but threw
themselves upon their country and upon Parlia-
ment, in the full confidence that, in doing an act of
justice and sound policy, the Parliament would not clog
it with any conditions which shiuld tender it inconsist.

out with their boneur as Gentleman, with their tights
chi/.'s% or with their religion as Roman Catholics; and
he (Lord Nugent) did dot thick that there was any sa-
crifice which should not trench upon one of these con-
siderations which the Roman Catholics were not hotrod
to make in defence to those apprehensions which some
persons sincerely entertained. He fully hoped that
the measure. when it should pass, would be an act of
grace complete and final, and the languige aod con-
duct of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite gave
him every lesson to hope that it should be so. He !lusted
that it would be a measure of such a name as should
enable England to bring home that immense garrison
which was now kept up in Ireland, and people that
courtesy with the cheap defence of nations, which was
produced by a population warmly attached to the Gn.
vernment under which they were cherished. He hoped
that the measure would be such a one as should enable a
Roman Catholic gentleman to conform to witho t any
taint or %%lipid o of his motives in so doing. The
measure of Catholic Emancipation was one which 11,4.11
in its progress attracted to it the favour and support of
the greatest men by whom this country had been eve,
adorned. Having been introduced by Si' George Si-
ville, it was adopted by the brilliant genius of Bui ke,
the severe but generous philosophy of Wyndham, and
the devoted patriotism of Grattan. There was yet
alive another great name who had shed the splenlour
of his advocacy round the cause, and who, though he
had for some time retired from public life, yet now
watched the.proceedings of the House upon this ques-
tion with hopes as ardent and prayers as fervent as had
animated the vigour of his manhood. In the brilliant
circle of the great names by which this measure had
been advocated there had been, however, one vacancy,
which was at last filled up by the right hon. gei.tlern to
opposite, and the crown was now complete.
Sir CHRISTOPHER COLE sail, that he bad not
intended to trouble the House upon the present occa
but, in consequence of what had fallen fr..m some Holt.
Members in the course of the debate, I e felt it his duty
to declare, in his place, that he should not vote in sup-
port of any measure, unless the strongest securities
should be given for the maintenance of the Protestant
Establishments of the country. He was aware that in
what he was about to say he should expose himself to
obloquy; but he should nevertheless declare that the
security which he wanted was security against the en-
croachments of the Papal Church. If he should be
asked on what grounds Le entertained any apprehen-
sions from that quarter, he would say—look at the
condition in which Italy has been kept for ages.
which has been the result of the baneful influence of the
Roman Catholic religion—look at Soak), where these
was a degraded nobility and an ino.overished peop'e—
look at Portugal, and say whether all the dissensions
and miseries of that country were not produced by
the conduct of the Papal Clergy. He did not wish to
hurt the feelings of his fellow citizens in Ireland, but
he could not help saying that a great part of the dis-
traction of that country had been produced by the con-
duct of the Papal Clergy. It was impossible that a
person who, like him, had been engaged for upwards
of fifty years in an honourable and gallant profession,
should wish to exclude any past of his fellow citizens
from their civil rights, Doles' upon a full conviction of
the dangers which would result to the Constitution from
their admission. In the service to which he belongs.d,
be never found it necessary, in the performance of his
duty to his King and country, to inquire into the reli-
gion of the gallant companions by which he was sur.
rounded—(Hear). He had never found it necessary to
ask whether his companions in arms were Protestant cr
Catholic, but still he thought it his duty to vo e against
Catholic Emancipation, unless it could be ace onpanied
with securities for the preservation of the Protestant
establishment. He could not sit down without saying
a word as to the attacks which had been made upon the
Right Hon. Gentleman who sat on the beach below
him. He (Christopher Cole) could not believe that
there was the slightest foundation for the assertion that
the Right Honourable Gentleman had been influenced
in the course which he had taken by any other motives
than a pore regard for the welfare of his country ; and
as to the Noble Duke at the head of the Government, it
was impossible that he who had shed tears of humanity
on the field of Waterloo should not tremble at the pros-
pect of a civil convulsion in the bosom of his own
country. Entertaining these sentiments, and placing the
highest confidence in his Majesty's Government, he
should give them his support upon the introduction of
the proposed measures to the House.
Mr. RICKFORD (of Aylesbury) said that he should
not have offered himself to the House upon the present
occasion if it bad not been for the statement made by
the Noble Lord on the state of to she feeling in the
Hundreds of Aylesbury on the subject of the Catholic
claims. He (Mr. Rickford) had at the last election
canvassed the whole population of these Hundred., and
he could affirm that fifteen out of every twenty of
them were adverse to soy fusthei concession to the
Roman Catholics.
Mr. HUSKISSON said that he should not enter at
prese t intu the very important and difficult question
of securities; but, As he hoped that the present would
be the last of those appeals, fruitless mid unavailing,
which the petitioners had been for so many years
making to the House, he hoped that he should be ex-
cused for troubling the House with a few words. He
thought that the prospect which was now opening to
the Catho is Peers of England most be delightful to
the best feelings of all men of unbiassed minds and
generous hearts. Apart from all consideration of the
merits of the general question, he thought that no man
who had viewed the conduct of these men, under
political privations for a series of years; could ima-
gine that what they were now about to receive had
been conferred in consequence of any intimidation
from them. There was no man, he thought,
who, in tendering them this boon at last, could be of
so misgiving a nature as to entertain any apprehension
about their future conduct. The Petition had been
signed by some persons of the highest rank in the peer-
age of this ancient State. Their families had been
For ages kept under the stigma ef a perpetual bill of
pains and penalties, and under the blight of a perpetual
forfeiture of those honours which their noble ancestors
had received from the favours of former Sovereigns.—
As tar as the Catholics of England were concerned, it
was not necessary that the measure of concession
should be preceded by coercion. It was not necessary
in their case that, when the Legislature was inviting
them into the temp!e of concord with one hand, it should
meet them with a law of restriction on the other
hand. If there were any persons opposed to the con-
cession of the claims oa the ground of the violence of
other Catholics, the conduct of the Catholics of England.
ever quiet and acquiescent, should induce them to bury
in oblivion all the proceedings of the Catholics in Ire-
land. It should be an additional motive with such to
acquiesce in the measure of concession, that of the Ca-
chalks of England no apprehension need be entertained.
Let the House bind the Irish as well as the English
Catholics in gratitude to the Crown, by enlarging the
piure of their utility to the States and thus enable them

4

to is:barge their duties to the Crown and the Loth.
!wipe. Let them increase the attachment and utilityof
the Catholics by advancing then ability to promote the
great i. ter eats of the country, and allowing tt ens a par.
imitation in the advantages of the Constitution.
Mr. THANT denied what the Hon. M toper had
advanced in fairclur of the English Catholics, and he
negod the House only to recollect that the votes and
mealues of the Irish Catholic As,nciation had been
ont add carried in a Meeting of the Catholics of
England. He was an Irishman, and he was not at alt
inclined to bear too ha d upon Isis own country fur
what was called agitation, considering the encourage.
ment held out to them in various ways; and partici.
larly by the want of attention on the part of Genre's'.
meta at the commencement r f the agitation, he
was ni.t at all surprised that it had arrived
at that pitch which had compelled the Govern.
meta 'to something which was gene ally called
suhrnissioit. A sprit has been shown oil Co-
part ul the
Catholics of England which lsd him to think, that if
they had been placed in a situation equally favourable
to agit ,tion with the Irish, their conduct would nut have
ben very deffe,en,. He objected to all measures which
were not mot:wanks by secu.itie., for he knew well,
by past experience, that a little leaven leavened the
whole lump. Ever sillte he had been in Parliament he
had come early and gone I.te, and he ha,l found all
proceedings trench nn one common object. His
!tight Honourable Fiend (Mr. Peel), in his speech
up .n this subject, delivered in 1817, had quoted an üb.
serration of Mr Ilunies, in speaking if the reign of
James the First and his Successor—.“ that religious .p
s when it mingled with tl:e spirit el faction, corral:. in it
something supernatural, and that, to its opeiation upon
s •ciety, its effects c..riespond less to their known causes
than ;any o her circumstances of Government." This was
precisely the leavin why he (Nlr.Traitt)opposeiCatholic
Em ,ucipation. He was not influenced by their conduct
or numbers; but, looking at !risco: v, he was compelh d,
though very reluctant' No oppose the provsed n:e.ou
He would address his Right Hon. F lend (Mr. Peel) in
his own words to ed on a tot mer occasion, when opposing
these Cath"lic Claims: " These reflections are c.a.

V

I

1

11

firmed by all hibtot y, mid may be a warning to us lin,
we unsettle what we find establibhed. Let us luck to

the Constitution which we have derived from rut as.

cestors, under which we have enjoyed wire liberty,
acquited more glory, and possess more power and Nose
character than have fallen to the lot of soy other cow
try of the }:lobe. It any man be undecided on the quew
(ion, I entreat him to give the benefit hiv voice to 44
existing order of things, before he eves his suppoit ta
A measure which is at best uircertatii, and by aluchl*
may forfeit all the advinra ,es of tl-.e Government which
IS for the speculative L.lva. cages of the Governmeet
which may bet _ _

Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that nothing more Om
the speech of the lion. Member who just set do's
Conned the gross ign trance of some persons on the icy
occurtences of the day. Nothing could be moie un-
founded than the aspersions thrown out by the Hon.
Member on the Catholics of England. If the Hon. I
Member had been in this country during the time be
had spent in eastern climates, he would see that in times
of doubt and difficulty, amid the conflict of excited
hopes and fears, the English Catholics never be.
trayed one sentiment of disloyalty, and that, though
they «ere bound down by resole:ions more severe and
galling, though less necessary or justifiable ; yet to
these estimable persons the Honourable Member bad
ascribed a wish to commit mischief if they had tha
power. These persons, eminent for their rank iu society,
the antiquity of their descent, though shut out from
every ',gamete object of ambition, had confined them. •
selves to the presentations of temperate and humble
petitions; and if in Ireland, where education was mole
limited, and the national character more excitable. the
violence of the Catholic feelings had precipitated them
beyond the bounds of prudence, that example was not
followed by the Catholics of England. In fact, their
conduct deserved the praise of every thinking man. He
often thought that, if lie had been born in that religion,
hewould have felt most bates ly at seeing his hopes blasted
and himself unable to rise to that level in society to
which his toils may entitle him—the legitmate object
of his hopes and denies. He hoped, when the Hon.
Member fur Dover would rise next to speak on the
subject, he would give utterance to assertions more
founded in truth and justice than his aspersions I
on the Catholics of England. As to the Honourable
Member's allusion to the conduct of the Right Hon.
the flume Secretary, he was sum the Right Hon. Se-
cretary was not a man to be turned aside from his
.tuty by the puny, insignificant, and contemptible
taunts of the Hon. Member, eked out by garbled CIA
tracts from speeches spoken under different circum-
stances. He had deeply considered the conduct of the
Right Hun. Secretary for the Home Department, and
the various accusations that had been urged against
liim—that of inconsistency on one side, and a love of
place on the other. Now, in his opinion, the Right
Hon. Secretary was not guilty of either. It seas no in-
consistency to use various means for attaining the same
end. It •as no inconsistency in the Right Hon. Gent.
when hie obj•ct was to preserve the integrity of the
Protestant establishment, to endeavour to effect thrt
measure by supporting a measure of conciliation. It
had been said that there was no change c f circumstance
as affecting this question ; but was not the continuance
of such circumstances a change of circumstances f— •
Was it not a proof that the remedies that were ap-
plied had failed? • Was not a Minister who dewed
peace often obliged to go to war in order to min
peace? When a remedy that had been applied wasused •
in vain, how often was a remedy, which had been to
jected in the first instance, tried as the last re,ource?
He thought the Right Hon. Gentleman had quite jet-
tified himself in all the arguments he bad used in his&
fence, all,except one, namely,that relating to his
ing in office. Now be (Dr. L)would say that, if the Right
Hon. Gentleman bad left zffice, he would have deserted
his duty, when he had advised the Crown to adopt s
par titular line of policy, and after that advice had bees
accepted by the Crown. If, then, the Right Hon. Gee*
tleman bad retired, he would have been guilty of pa'
lanimity—aye, of cowardice—of baseness. If be bad
retired in order to remain at the head of a pasty, ea
by such conduct had rendered doubtful the success of
the measure which be had advised, be would be a me*
to his King and his country. The Rt. Hon. Geodesic'
had been the head of a powerful party—a party cee' ,
sisting of many of the ancient aristocs icy and the heads
of the Church Establishinent—a party so high in nicer
and influence that it might be a matter of honourable
ambition and glory for any man to be the head of it.
When be remembered that the Right Hon. Gentiana
had given up that leadership, it was surprising to beer
hien accused of remaining in office through a love d
place. The bare comparison of tne office of Secrecy!
of State with such a leadership was enough to disprove
the charge. It was but as dust in the balance again'
the temptations of adherence to his party, if in truth
principles went with that party. The Right Hon. Geo+
amnia bad given notice of his intention to vacate tbs

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