Star.
London, England, 1816-03-29 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

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At half-past three o'clock the Deputy Usher of the Black Rod
4eslred the attendance of the and the House in the
House of Peers

l'Er SPEAKER, on hiS return, informed the House, that he
ha.' iwar.l the Royal Assent siren to the Bill tor the Nuuralisa-
ii rn of Prince Levull of Coln, are, and other Hills.
Mr. CHAPLIN gave notice wet he would move for leave to
bring in a Sill tor the better regipatiou of Courry Rates.
Mr. SIINI.vEIt presented a Petition irons the Rev. Wil-
liam Mann and others, against the Bill for !nistasing the Sa-
laries and Stipends of Curates in the Parish of St. Saviour's,
oouthwark.

Atter_ stole remarks from Mr. CALVER r, leave was
givtu tor the Petitioners to be heard by their Counsel against
1:1:1.

a tile second reading of the Woolwich Ferry Bill, .7
Mr. BW ANN objected to It, as not likely to afford any at
coininoilation to the Public or to the Town of Woolwich. He
'tweed •hat the Bib be read a second time this day iii mouths.
Mr B.ItCLAY stypurte.l the Bill.
). GRAH.Csot oppoied the Bill.
Mr. Alderman b.vil I.H tboutlst there was a great deal too
mach specuLition loins forward in things of this hind, and be
woaid oppose the bill.
Mr. CA...VEIt 1' said, k was not to lfe endured that any set
of peoplt should monopult.e the navigation of the River Thai.its
to themsclves.

l'he klaux then divided, when there appeared for the second
reading, 3 2 —fa r the Amendment, 16.
The Bill wa, therefore read a second time.
Colonel GRAN 1 presented a Petition tram the County of
Elgin, emplaiiong ~t ilbclnequality o' the Distillery Lars; and
prayiugto. ab, tier regulation-of the same.

and Nicatures Gin was reported, wken a ditcui-
dos toukyl..ce on certain clawes.

Mr. E LAYNE proposed to exclude iron from weight,
under 51b. ia)te.id of fib.
Mr. BE NJ: f wished to Lace that metal which should laic
the _ _ _

'I heauttuJrnent of Mr. I attuATlte was :greed to.
Mr. I.UStiIIiGTON brown up certain Yarn, relative to
the Office of Muter-General of the Ordnance.

The Report of a Committee on Promissory Notes was brought
up; and a Bill was ordered to be brouet up to restrain the i.sue
of certain Promissory Notes.
The House in a Continuum went throuzli the Irish Excice Bill.
Admiral M sitKHAM moved for a Account of all Fei•
gives during art year tals, iis ii.. A drnira:ty Navy-
Office, and VictualUng-Difice, together with the appropriation
thereat—Ordered

Mr. BENNET moved for a Return of the charges on the 4i
per cent. fa the Leeward*. so far as relatei to the lischequer,
Ordered.

Mr. FINLAY moved for an account of the number of Ships
that had, thirms the last year, cleared outwards and inwards,
between ibis country and Canada, Nova Scotia. Newfoundland,'
&c. also the amount of imparts and report., between Great
Britain and she Colonies in North Anierka and the West Indies.
Ordered.

Mr. C CALVERT presented a Petition from several Luba-
Isitants of the Borough of bouthwark, praying for the repeal of
the Insolvent Debtors' Act. The Petitioners stated that they had
nn objection to the Act, p evaded it could be amended.—Tbe
Pedtiosi was ordered to lie on the 'rause.

Mr. ItOSE gave notice, that en Friday, he shed,' move for
leave to bring in a Bill to regulate the establialunent of Banks fur
Saving.

LOTTERIES.

Mr. THOMPSON stiove;cl, that there be laid before ,
the House the name and salary of every person em.
ployed in the country parts of the kingdom by the
Government, as a Commissioner of the Lottery.—'
He said massy of these had large salaries, and they
scarcely ever attended in town for the purpose of
doing business, euept for a few days. •
Mr. LYT I'LETON declared, that he had a de-
cided objection to Lotteries in general, which tended
to do the greatest mischief in the country by intro-
ducing a spirit of gambling and profligacy, and by
ruining numbers of
Mr. BENNEr declared it as hiss opinion that no-
thing could tend more to corrupt the manners and
debauch the character of dee people 'than Lotteries,
and he believed there was nothing .desPieable or vi.
ciour which persons concerned in these gambling spe-
culations would not resort to,. and it was impos-
sible to conceive a worse mode df raising supplies.
Mr. M. A. I'AYLOR said, it might be recollected
and might be obset ved, on reference to. the Journals,
hat upwards of three and twenty years ago, he had
brought in a Bill for abolishing Lotteries altogether.
Mr. Pitt was then at the head of the Administration,
and when the Bill had been nearly carried through
the House, he said he conceived the Lottery to be a
very proper war tax, and the bill was laid aside. He
was himself confident that there could not be a worse
mode of raising money: At the time when the Bill
was before -the House, he proved that to be the fact,
he produced evidence to shew, that poor women had
even made away with their children's shoes to raise
money for gambling in the Lottery. Mr, Pitt did
apply to ham to know by what mode the evil .of,
gambling mightbe reaiedied., He was not able to sug-
gest any other mode than that of drawing the whole
in two or three days. That remedy was adopted,
and although not altogether effectual, it removed a
great part of the evil. It was, however, a fit subject
tor the consideration of the Houle. With respect to
the present motion, it applied to persons whose sala-
ries were very trifling, and who certainly perforined
some service for what they received... LiniceJ such
persons must necessarily be ensployed, for so lontas
Lotteries eauted,there must be Conswitsiuners to carry

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mitree. Mr. LYTTELTON said, that in the absence,
of his Noble Friend and ,colleague (Lord Elmler) he
should be under the necessity of noticing a proceed-
ing which had taken placeion the preceding day. His
Noble Friend had preseutTd a Petition from Worces•
tershire, which was ordered to be referred to the pre-
sent Committee ; it was presented at a time when
there were very few Members in the House, and the
Noble Lord did not enter into a full statement of its
contents. He shou!d now, however, procure a hear-
in;r, for that petition ; it could not be the wish of the
Noble Lord to stifle tl:e sentiments which it contained.
It was Gr, however, that the House should hear what
the petitioners had stated, and for that purpose he
moved that it should be read. The Petition was read
accrOingly. The petitioners deprecated the erec-
tion of all new and expensive public works, .the ar-
r:.‘rs of the Civil List, together with all kinds of
tiotti.cessary ispendititre, and prayed that a general
syvm of economy might be established throughout
.the country.

Mr. WESTERN then addressed the Committee.
He hoped they would tate into consideration the
.difficuui.s under which the country now laboured,
and that the; would receive several important com;"
munications from Gentlemen present, as he conceived
that such c'mmunicatiuns would give a clear idea of
the extent of the distress prevailing in the country.
From all the knowledge he had on the subject, it ap-
peared to him that the nation was now in an unheard
of state of distress. At the same time, he was far
from entertaining any thing like a despeiriag view of
our situation. It must however be known, that the
land paid no rent ; that the wages of the labourer '
were not sutcient to procure him sustenance, alai
that the stock in the hands of agriculturists was
turned into a real loss. Could any man then view
such a situatimens this without lecling something
like despondency. and without extreme alarm for the
cntesequences It was from the rent of land and
from the wages of labourers that all revenue was ul-
timately derived; but such was the present situation,
that the land was not equal to the production of re-
venue, and therefore it was the duty of the House to
consider what was to be Icolced for, and to devise
means that shotild restore prosperity to the country.
It was the business of the Committee to see what was
the cause of the distresses to which he alludcd. He
would answer the question, and say, that these dis-
tresses arose within the last two yea's from a fall in
the profits of lam!, and, from a surplus of agricultu-
tura' products, the 'demand for them. It was a fact
clearly demonstrable, that a very small surplus be-
yond the demand would at any time diminish the
price of agricoltural produce. This was the pri.
mary cause of low prices ; it was a fall in the real
value of all the products of land. To this might be
added a fail in the nominal v.iloe, ill consequence of
the disappearance of the credit currency. All this
had the effect of altering the property of individuals;
it made a complete alteration in the distiibuilon of
property throughout the country. The owners of
agr cultural products at this time received only about
half the amount they„forn.erly did, while they were
obliged to pay the same sums in taxes which they
had paid at a time when their produce fetched a price
double the atneunt of what could now be Obtained
for it. By this means the weight ci all the taxes and
the natiurul debt was doubled. Some years ago,
when the prices of all foods of provisions were high,
every thing was on a fair level : the annuitants, and
others with fixed incomes, were indeed distressed ;
but then every thing had its value. The case was
now entirely reirerbei ; and the parties were placed
in a situation diametrically the reverse of what they
had been in before, in consequence of the diminution
of the circulating medium, and the Oepreciation of
elystt. The original cause was a great fall in the real
value of the profits on land ; and that fall was owing,
to a surplus produce beyond the demand: The first
thing, therefore, which he should recommend would
be, to take off that surplus by some means or other.
As he had sufficiently explained his views upon the
subject, he should not at present trouble the Corn-
mittse• with any more observations upon the general
ptiuciples of the question. A few words, hnnever,
were necessary before he sat down, upon the Resolu-
tion respecting the duties on malt, beer, and spirits.
In his opinion, it would be proper that a Oonsitlerabie
reduction should be made in the duties on spiries.—,
This was a part of the question, however, which he
did not think it incumbent upon himself to urge ;
but if he thought that those duties were intended to
be continued in their present state, be would give
the Ccminittee his real opinion, which was, that they
could not possibly continue with advantage to the
revenue as they had been in a period of warfare.—
The means of promoting illicit distillation, and the
smuggling consequent upon it, were increased by the
country's being in a state of peace, and by various
other concurrent circumstances, and not all ',the
powers of Government, great as they were, could
Erevent the extension of the practice of L:siuggling to
such a degree, that as much, if not more, would be
lost by the crop oyment of means• for its prevention
than would be saved by the revenue from the conti-
nuance of the duties in their former state. If the
Right Hot ourable Gentleman thought that be could
continue tf Use duties with advantage ; he was willing,
however, to bear his arguments upon the subject,
but he did not himself suppose mat the country
could bear them; If the House would take the two,
or three, or four years when the aggregate duties on
spirits in Scotland amounted to £740,000. and when
the duty was only ss. per gallon, and compare them
with the years when the dirty •was Bs. per gallon,
they would find the duties at ss. amount to much
more than those at Bs. for time latter was only
4710,900, or 4712,000. In short, be did not believe
tltat the Right Honourable Gentleman could receive
any great additional revenue from the war duties, nor
did he think they timid be at all paid by the people,
and be wished it 10 be observed, that he did not so
much complain of the duties themselves as that they
could not be borne: He thought that great benefit
woold be perceived, if ,it should be permitted to bond
British spirits. and be could see no great reason why
British spirits shoold not be bonded as well as the
produce of foreign countries, and if it could be effec-
ted without duties, it would be very beneficial to the
agricultural interests as well as the country at large.
The stock of spirits would be greatly improved, and
the quantities on hand would answer every purpose
of granaries When the distillers would not come Seto
sike,markst. He should not detain the teausittre I

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longer at present, but shoal& conclude by moving**
first Redolatiort as a kind of foundation for a general
debate; for he would remind the House that the Re-,
solution bad beets already agreed to. The Honour-
able Member then proposed the first resolution, which
we have already published.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it woull be
much better if some practical proposition should be
laid before the House as the foundation of a debate.
He did not think it was necessary to take the sense of
the House upon it, but that it might be read without
any particular object but as the nominal ground of
what might follow in the discussion. The H unse
was always open to the reception of any modified
proposition on the subject, and he thou?, that the
Hots. Gentleman could have little or no objection to
his suggestion.
Mr. WESTERN then withdrew the first Resolu-
tion, which stated only generally the distress si4 the
agricultural interest, and proposed the fourth, the
substance of which was, that the demand for barley
has been considerably reduced by the great duties to
Which it was liable in the various operations to which
it wersublested by the consumer,
• 'Pine-Risolutieu having been read from the Chair,
Mr. BRAND said, he should not detabt the Com-
mittee long by the few observations it was his' inten-
don to submit, for he thought that the Resolutions
were so simple, and the conclusions consequent upon
them so easily drawn, that he might state every thing
he had to say very shortly. He should not enlarge
upon what had already been sufficiently made known
to the House—the general distress of the country,
butt lie thought that Ministers had not been aware of
the alarming extent which the public calamity had
reached. The great distress had penetrated into
every class of society, but none of the orders excited
so much sympathy in their sufferings as the poorer
and more helpless pan of the people, from whop
nothing could be taken without adding to their dis-
tress in a manner intolerable to bear or to behold by
those whose feelings were easily touched by the
miseries of the unfortunate. He had last year
expressed his opinion upon the state of the agricul-
ture when the House was considering a question in
which the feelings and understanding of its Members
were particularly interested, and it there was any
Gentloian present who recollected the sentiments lie
had den expressed, he would allow that what he had
then said as prophetic, had since completely come to
pass. He had then said, and he still beld'the same
opinion. that in proportion as the distress of the oc-
cupier was increased, do would the distress of the,
labourer be augmented; and this had evidently
proved too true, when the agriculture was suspended,
and relief for a time prevented by the circumstances
of the countty. Time were Many cases of distress
which had occurred, the relation of which he was sure
would affect every well-constituted and benevolent
mind. With the permission of the Finuse he shculd
read an ettract of a letter from eambridgesbire, and
not from the upland part of that county, which might
be expected to feel the general depression more
forcibly, but from that part which had formeily been
the most flourishing, from a parish indzed which had
been most optilent, and which had every sign of a
long continuance of its agricultural prosperity.—
[The Hon. Member then read an extract from a let-
ter from a very respectable M.'istrate,, in Cambridge-
shire. in which it was stated, that the strongest and
most able single men were paid for their labnnr at
the cote of Bd. per day.]—Tl.us the most industrious
people, and those who could once have earned them-
, selves a comfortable livelihood, could tow scarcely
procure themselves a scanty subsistence to keep them
from utter starvation. But he had expected worse
instances of distress even than these, and more aggro-
' vated cases had occurred. He had heard and he had
personally witnessed some cases of extreme difficulty
and accumulated wretckedness which he could
sc trcely take upon himself to describes and some of
these had happened upon land which was very fertile
' and Very couvertible, and the Honourable Mover
would perceive that such land was the least likely to
suffer under a severe pressure. Before he left the
country, a respectable fat mer had called upon him
from a parish in a part of the country which in the,
time of Camden, was considered and called the gar.'
den of England; in that parish he was the only re-
maining occupier, and consequently his land became
chargeable with the whole of the parish poor-rates.
He tried, but without effect, to procure relief from
the unoccupied land. Upon his inquiring what
would become of the poor on his leaving his land,
he was informed that they would become chargeable
upon the next parish, which though the land in it
was not so good as the former, was in a very diss
tressed situation. The immense horde of paupers
thus spreading and growing as it proceeded, was an
evil which was adding daily to the numerous calami.
ties already inflicted on the country; and if some
early measure was not adopted for general relief; if
some amendments were not speedily made to the
Poor Laws, and if these unprovided paupers spread
as they were at present legally authorised to de, the
country would be plunged into a situation for which
no remedy could be procured that would accomplish
its salvation. it was necessary in taking a view of
this question, bowever, that might benefit the coun-
try, to examine into causes before the House consi-
dered effects. The principal cause he believed was
' this—that the price of produce was not adequate to
afford a profit, or even to cover the charges at which
it might be raised. This was the great cause, without
' any quotations from works of political economy ; iti
was a poetical and a too really existing troth. The
difficulties were increasing, and the agricultural
tress was gradually proceeding, and slowly destroy-
ing the means of the country ; but became the pros
gress was slow and secret, the present Committee
'should nut consider it less sure. The capital which
had been employed in agriculture was wasting and
disappearing, and the absolute loss to die country
front the distresses of the landed proprietors and
occupiers, had been calculated at alop,oucooo, and
even though he believed that to be an exaggerated
statement, he considered the loss as almost beyond
calculation, above the profit. He should not say that
there was much injury done to the disunity by levy-,
invests, or rents, by processes, if he did not vecol.'
lees the ruinous consequences of these expedients. tor
the collection of money. The great question to be
considered was, how the landed interest was to be
relieved For the discovery of a solution to this
question, the Honourable Mover had proposed a
number of Resolutions, which embraced trip leading

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