Star.
London, England, 1828-05-23 00:00:00

RECOVER/ 01 SMALL DEBTS.

Mr. Secretary PEEL said, he had another measure
to introduce of as great importance as the last. It was,
a-Bill, the object of which was to facilitate the recovery. •
of small debts—(Hear.)—At present the expense of-the
proceedings in the Superior Courts was so gteat, that
persons often forbore to enfotie their rights rather that
go to law. This was so obvious an evil, that many .
remedies had. been proposed to do away with it. Some-
'Bills were under the Consideration of the House by. a
Noble Lord (Althorp) for that purpose, and it wet in
consequence of the desire that Noble I.4;rd had last Sri.
sion expressed, chat he (Mr. Peel) now endeavoured Id
' ascend our law in this important particular. One of
the prepoied plans was the appointment of Assessarsi•
with it salary of 8001. or 9001. to. preside in thee',
Country.Xcrtutt... Some counties that were so small.-
as not to gneed an Assessor' exclusively were to joid'
tatters,' 'and 'have one beta een them. The satari,
of
,the Asiessorswas proposed to be raised tipint,,
the sounty or district, or to he paid out of the fees,r.
that Might be collected in- the CoosCoost•itself. Objections.l
were rinsed to the appOintment of the Assessor being he,:
the Lord.Lieutenatit, and, therefoie, it was vested-
the 'Croft. • Another plan was for the present Judges..
of the insolvent Courts to make Circuits'. round • lbw-
conntri'for thetrial of -actions for the recovery of Auk'
debts. :There were other plans but objections
offered to all Of them. That which henow preposeilwAt•
founded entirely upon a different principle frost any.ef
then): The .Bill he proposeatointioduceto the emdisier--,.
irenetthe. Heine enlarged; the jurisdiction 'Of tbeCotintiv.
L•ourts.bl,o34o4.os. to• 10/. . From the able assistancehe•
had hadia.thelorming• of. it, he did not doubt that its
details 'would be found eaten Wed to attain toe'
object be had in. view. It made no alteration in the COW-
' isitution Ofithe County Conks, but simply enlarged OW
pourers. It gesso the forms of proceeding,.fized the fees.
.ensihied.Magisirates at the Quarter Sessions, where tbie
:county; Wits line, to divide it into.disti icts, requiredthe •
Courts to be held within certain periods of time, and;
that Sheriffs should give notice of those periods.; It:
prekided a trial by Jury iii (best lrotsrts, the qualifira-
•
tiosagtheJuror tolie the same as those of Jutymakf.
shammed at Nisi Prius at Westminster Hill, and. chit:
the Jury should consist of five. He did not at present
propose to require unanimity in the Jury. The 134
further empowered the Court to grant new trials, and
provided that the remedy should be against the goods,.
and not. the
,person—(Cneers).—Ttte remedy. . against
the goods was not, however, to be confined to goods
belonging to the party in the county, but was to
extend to goods he might have in any part of Eng-
land. As, however, the Bill would
.** much better
understood by a reference to itself thanituf-sectonnt fe:
could give of it, he Would leave Hon. Medibers to cen!
silt it. The only part of it which hi thOught it spOssibie
might excite opposition, was. that which related to the
compensation to be given to those who-hadvested in-
terests that would be affected. It was tleir that many
causes would be tried before the County' Courts, which
would otherwise come before the superior Courts of
Common Law. Certain Officers of those. Courts would
of course be materially affected by this. He was sorry
that offices should exist of a nature to thr ow impediments
in the way of improvements in the law, but'Parliainent
had always held that where persons who held offices
for life were affected by any change,- that they should
receive compensation. Of course, %hawser expense vas
incurred by ;hist would cease with the lives oT those who-
held the specimof office to which he had alluded. Ibis
principle hattattiays hitherto been. acted upon,
hoped the introduction of a clause acting upon it in thls
Bill would not be objected to. The Right Honourable
'Gentleman concluded by moving for ',leave to bring
in a Bill to facilitate the Recovery of Small Oebts in
the County Courts, and for enlarging the jurisdiction
of the same in England and Wales. and, be.

'file motion having been read,
Mr. HUME rose—He was glad to hear that it was
the property and not the person seat was to be attached.
Nothing could be more contrary to common sense or
justice than arrest, and he trusted that the Right Hon.
Gentleman having acknowledged the goodness of the
principle, for which he had so long contended, up
to IV
would not object to go further. Now 'll4 they Nam'
Law Commissions sitting, he trusted the Right Ron.
Gentleman would think it a good oppottueitY for them
to take into consideration the propriety of aboiishieg
arrest on mesne process.
Mr. Secretary PEEL replied,. that one Commissioi
was appointed to examine into the state of the Superior
Courts of Common Law, and the other into the law as
regarded real property. He did not apprehend thatit
'was intended that either of these Commissions should
inquire into the policy of confinement for debt on messie
process, and as they had some very important subjetts
to investigate, he thought that the feis they weres`lis-
tracted by extraneous mutters the fritter.
would
. Mr. D., W. 11 t RVEY said. ihaLsiothing e'
received with mote.graiificittroO the coontty In4"'
this Bill, and he trusted that the valuable principle re"

. .
cognised in ft would not be 'testi kted tb'lol:' The Right
Hon. Gentlemarrhad told them, that the•qoalifications
of the Jut-Ws were to be .the same as those who
tried causes in Westminter Hall at Nisi Piitis: Why
not tli.n, since they were equally qualified, enable
them t try causes to the same amount ? He did not
mean to express a desire to extend the powers. of
the County Courts unlimitedly, but he thought that
they might properly and conveniently be extended to
the trial of 201. cases. There was one thing be hoped
would he pi ovided for, and that was, the responsibility
of the Judges, who, as he understood, it was intended to
draw horn the Sub-Shesiffs, and not therefore of such a
rank in lite as to make the want of it impossible. He
begged also to suggest, that it might be well to enable
a party, if the verdict went 'against him, to pay by in-
stain...Tots, so that a man really unable to pay should not
be unnecessarily harassed by immediate execution upon
udgment.
Mr. C. WOOD said, that the. office of Sub-Sheriff
was _valuable a piece of patronage, that he under-
mood the Sheriff often sold it for 1,0001. He hoped, if
the Judges of these Courts were to be drawn from that
:lass of persons, something would be done-to prevent
such a thing as that taking place.
Mr. Alderman WOOD expressed his cordial concur-
rence in the policy of the Bull. The Small Debt Society-
had latelurrelieved no fewer than 200individoals who
had been confined for some months for debts under
21.14.. each. This was. a lamentable state of things,
which loudly called for.the interference of the Legis-
lature; for while those' unfortunate persons were in pri-
son their families were probably receiving assistance
from the Poor Rates. He thought it would be an ex-,
vemely good thing to limit arrests to sums above 201.
He win sure that would be beneficial to the country.
Mr. Sec tetary PEEL said;. his only object was to enable
roues to recover small debts at the least posiible
ex-
p.me_(Hear, hear). Thus he had wade the form of
pleadings the most simple he could devise, as follows:
$ A trcompuiass.that C &owed him so much money.
ousuch a day'w4kHeir, bear). Nothing could be simpler
or it 4 expensive than that. With reference. to the
amount of debt to which the Bill was to apply, he
thought they had better it first, -for the experiment,
kin stand at. 101. They could make it .151. or 201,
hereafar,whenther had watched the progress of the Bill
at that amount. • He proposed also to give the Court
pcAver, trt the cue of an honest and industrious debtor,
to soave the payment of his debt by instalments, within
a period not longer than four months.-(Hear.). And
with reference' to fees, the Bill proposed to make the fee
to die Swig' in no cave, for entry, record, dec. mere
du; one shilling. With reference to the expense to
waidi Counties would be put by this Bill, some rep-
lesiairwrogld undoubtedly be made in favour of large
Coentlea,inch, for instance, as Yorkshiracwhieb would
ationifolbeing.divided into several districts. He doubted,
looms, the,policy of giving power to any local autbo•
lilies twat.r she amount of fees..

M. 6: LA.P46 expressed his approbation of the BilLi
Ile tradiurefthe house wen-not 'at all awareof.the ex,
tame good it would do; even though liatited to 101,. It
NJ (Allen to his lot to iisit a gaol:through which six,•
claims for sums under a. bad pereeed.in the coarse of
of He *IRS sure the increase of crime might be
attributed to :the .csiit4Mment of poor debtors within
the walls of a pima, where their minds became bat,
theed..4sy, the: ARIL distaste's with whom they- ware
abliged-‘tcl'eliatisiet. •He hoped -this Court :in time
would absorb all the petty- Courts of itelipiests; and he
hoped also dr ;t a time wottfd,artiye sehen.there would
Lew ouch. tbengtaouna io-thiszountty as imprisoamini
tutor. He .misteemialied; howeyerf with -this Bill foe
the mama, and thought that, upon the piaci* that
they otig4,7tiOt itplai'SViillipg hone to death, they '
oggin got io)nige ihe itight.itotitiutable Gentlemen
out of the steady pace'in which he eras tareseat alirr-
iabk-:..The motion was then granted.
" ' Lavers. • ' •

Mr. §LVIEYr truant to ;mike; vuovell-foritle-
lettrAre4ii44 jet.
.nirioire'inio that Dart Of the 'Poor
Laws which related t 6 the einployntent.if able.hadiid
peraowiontsirelthoseraceraing..theesfrons. Me Hon.
Gendeasan statfethalt• in the northern counOieshbe sps-
um of poor, _lntin:Wakiistoch better than in'tlirsoathegL
In Cuarberiand tiusintai Alone 11. 7d. in the gamthd On
the rack rent; in Seem • tber•ware 75.; in the eight
asselawawanties- the ,ansooat .of the pow rates was
nictiom 'Wiwi he eigitt southern counties of equal
POitifiatj.i.v.. the vgiougn was dadble that-runt.- In•the
Ybee4lBoo, the pat ier,poptilAtion was:ia _the proportion.
ee-anothaincosith the ..whole ,egannonity. :in 1826
alst'llenther lifienine It= re m. 'Th Reports 'of &re
1000111elieer.:111ineedon'tho PoorSivrs, its 18r/ • 181 g,
444.180.4. i .114-Eaiigration eninrolttheid/824.-and the
Cosaittetetof Criminal Conansitments—Anad . all Cuts-
carted in impiltibg the degradationtlf the peasantry to,
1611.eer .14101. 'For these -reasons he tholight
wotilef be productive of 'benefit..
Reload. paid mulch .assention to the subject., .bso. be
thodthe happy to hood itioverio, die eared any other
Ifori:' Member Willing. twonilertilre It. -
he option was then puffin= the Cade sad salved w mg the
Ouiedttee waifortbwith apptintsid.
..ORANT TQ TANNINOWFAMILY.
Sur
: GANT. bretatit up The Report. 6t tbe-Petsto6 Act
ndkik DOL

On the mottos that tbelteport be agreed to,
Mr. HUME :Aid he bid 'before'stated his reasons for
not agreeing to therirsat to Mr.Caniing's fainily ; and
*since thely additional -reason had • arisen- by the refits.'
of Ministers to' icybefore the loose as account cif the
disposal Of '95,0001.• a year in penaioni by the Crown.
It ear possible • that of this money Mr;Canningi
l'eleY 'sight :bendy be provided for; and•while that
iht vas **from the public, he could not support the
Present grant. He bad every respect for Mr. Canning:s
Prfrate cbaractei; but until the last two years of- bra
I,,fie -could not approve of any one of his acts but'
:trdmapert Of the 'Catholic Question. He then*"
that the Report be taken into consideration this
els three- months.
Mr,. MONCK said he never could admit that grant
Plitssie,services bad sot.beenipeiforesekby.Usentleasea
oaths side id the -House,. who had wasted astir lives is:
oppoilittoo to the measures-of Governmentp-4A 114
but be .never .saw -any attempt to give any reward•
loth patriots— Rethought it. wonld.be gra ta absodos
such rewards for civil services altogether, and amen
°leo, as wreathe prattled-of theivaaeastorso to military
services; he should therefore. oppose the. motion.
.1011)1 NEWPORT hoped.rhe Hesse, sifter a
twenty.five years aquaintance with him, wosdd *orbit
Viers of sirim his vote upon interested motives--
Non, boil. He had always been in political hostility
to Mr. Canning till the latter years of his Id& Huai'
tonduct 'during those years had, in his mind, created le
ken a, debt. samintsia by this.. coasts y, utast alkeisil
tied Ellopet tome& bis•assetasey, that lor should be
to himself slid he oat jsii -awafforiard,aud
Map-eisia opinion 24 --t--------
•
ce aid 'l3t atesoss
loropinion Ise !"
SY discookoictog
had &be op

power 'against all liberal institutions::. 'They were-ins,
debted. to Mr. Canning for that, and also- for having
emancipated the Republics of South America. For
those. and. for other reasons, he thought the country
largely indebted to him, and that they were bound. to
show it upon the present occasion. The vote of the other
night, alluded .to by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen,
bad nothing to-do with the question now before the
House. He was obliged, at his tune, of. life, to retire
from the business at ao earlier hour than he used to do,
but had be been present upon that occasion he should
certainly have voted for the motion of his Honourable
Friend. But they should not forget that among the
arguments used against the concealment of the names
of persons receiving grants from ;he Pension Fund of
95,0001. it was said that wherever there was a case of
merit, that House would always aot with liberality.
Here, then, was a fit case for the attention of the House,
and- what was the reception it met with ? He would
only say, that he-should adopt the same line of conduct_
towards any other public servant as be had done
towards Mr. Canning, as a retribution for his public
services, wherefore he would vote against the amend-
ment, although in doing-so he was compelled to differ
-from some of his friends in public life, whose views ,
were narrowed by the financial circumstances of the
country, which, however bad he knew them to be; were
not so wretched as to be 'unable to afford a testimony of
the nature to the services of an old servant of the public.
Colonel SIBTHORPE said, he opposed this grant at
first, and his opinions . remained. still unaltered. His
opposition did not arise from any personal hostility to
Mr. Canning, but he did not think the situation of the
country warranted him in consenting to a proposition
of this kind. Of mach of Mr. Canning's political con-
dect he disapproved; but, upon this occasion, he was
influenced by no consideration of that kind. This grant,
if agreed to under present circumstances, must go out
unfavourably to the public. Any allusions which might .
be made to him for his vote upon this occasion, m con-
nected with the agricultural interest, he should treat
with the contempt they deserved.
Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD. said, he was anxious
to-bring'the House back' to that spirit to which it was
013 St proper to return. It was desirable that a vote of
this sort should be discussed calmly, and without re-
verting to former debates. He was extremely glad that
the Hon. Baronet (Sir John Neerptirt)%had an' oppor-
tunity of addressing the House. •,#IT Opiknew .that
Hon. Baronet would 'do him' the credit' that
..licivnald
give the same, vote to the family of a man to whom he.
might have been politically opposed, if he had.posses.
sect the same talents, and rendered the -same 'Service!.
On the grounds of this vote no difference of. opinion
should arise. He had been too long a Member
of the Government, of which Mr. Canning was
a shining Member, as not to differ from- this voice—,
His measures of Foreign Policy were supportefly
tbe, present Government, and, they had ' properly
their share in. its. meats or.idemerits.. The grbuntre
of this grant were the unquestioned Public servicea.of
Mr.Catming, and his devotion Ao his Xinvand-teebie
country, as well as the state in which hitlemilywas.leit
by his over attention to-public affairs. On these groan*
he was entitled to call upon the House kir this vottt.o.A.
Grants of this nature were confined to great men;;lithit;
in great and eminent situations, gavithe publican opa
portonity of valuing their services—such as Lord-Chab.
ham, Mr. Perceval.,andr Mr. Canning ; and -the Hon,
Member for Reading need not fear that this
.would -be
too freqtently drawn into precedent. Thif watfa dons
tion, on the part' of the Crown, tia,a.Petytin 'be -1000"
theCroWn, under other cirettinstanceac seoialriltuee.ti
tight-to.confer it, The Hon Member tor Reeding amid
thus 'he- would- confine such votes 'to she families of-ass
tlistiognished for naval:or military services. -Go* forkid
that this Country should ever be ieduied to fbrif,ititti,
that should not give to civil. services a. due reisMoiLt.
'Sir J. MAClNTOSH:said,.that :tundessitanding.4
to be the intention of his Honourable Friend the Meese
ber fur Aberdeen to take the'sense of the Hriuseon,fhis
motion, he telt it bis dtity to avail himself of 'the' l'Est-
,opportunity which Would offer to state the grcitiridt
bis eote,.and offer his reasons for disscrning ftonS
opinions which were, in his judgmeot,subeetaiee ofetbe:
prineiplesof- natiunni rewards and honours- whichtpte.
veiled in every civilised nation. He was relieved,'
ever, from the necessity of recalling the House tb a 'sense
of that calinness which only was sallied to a -question cif
this nature, by the example .set, and the topics dwelt
upon, by the .Right Hon. Gonda:ma who bad preceded
hub. The only ground in which beyviewed it was, that
every man in the House (whatever might have been his
differences with Mr.Canningyerho believed that the coup-
try retained the means of doing honour to the memory of
inestriotis Statesmen. might vac for the present grant.
That was his justification. of. the measures, and tithe vote
which he would heartily give iasuppost Of it, In.consider-,
ing this question, he thought it should-beeiewedin. this
way, that public masks Might alwaysdiebesteered oriel
a man who had honestly bestowed bietelents in the way:
.he believed tight fOr the public service; tits 4,lresgehoegh
to enable the public to -form .a judgment both of his
talents acid ofthe perky othis motiyes. It.thac maxim
were not to be received, sod if he were then asked how
he could justify'itis'eme of that night, he should be
obliged to say that—titi'mtional honour should' ever be
paid. In this canary of-Partiesit would be absurd to
suppose that any visas-mho . was eonspicuoutenough to
have hit name mentioned, could •possibly have passed
through his Career without supporting measures upon
which there mould be a great difference of opitlion. If,
,therefore, it werenecessary to casein in opinion 0.n.a1l
the transactions of a life of 25 or 90 years; a victorious.
laction might give an offering to its chief, but the flatlets-
never could bestow a national White of respect. The
Honourable Member for Reading.wished to recal those
times when public honours were solely bestowed upon
military services ;.bnt he (Sir James Macintosh) thought
that that argument had been refuted by, the Commander
.of the Emelt fortlaelandmi that debate—(Hear, hear)—.
thetceguesene ishieb would .confine national honours to
-what barharnms.might .cope with us in, and would rob
[the `nation of cbinecting civil honours with genius and
eloquence, .and.alse.arts.of.citiliaed life. Was it thed
Itrue that Hotalowsasever to,pass, a vote for best
sours upon stiloomeni because there were other sours
from which they sight derive benefit? The maim
'of wealth are ahrsaYs.,9ened to .a statesman by tM
Clown. and if soch.A.Basa that on, the table • is to be
rejected, be will betaeghtto avail' timself of Amu.
Was he to be told,- because- of ,differences of opinion
With Mr. turas*, that. be wet not a man of the
purest hewers itbich be knew him .to be, or that,
he did not posses.. those splendid -talents which -every
.one knew were reuoweed throughout Europe? The,
conduct of lord Balinghtblie was much more go.
-anon is this respect,. for althea ,bt was. spoken to of
the character Of' the Doke ef. Marlbeeciugh, who wee
tri'Veatesi adwriorf; hie answer was, " well, be-it ao;
but he' is mutant tiltan gar fogget his bolter end
'4lasneellliacietash).eisisd,Aat every kiesdb%
flosuswendd miry:wan sentioseats thus weed)
too; daefeete te -lf eed. anthem wee Pine's*
forth happened to be absentiziates Honee'tid

ise.leturned is a hurry, end expressed-Ns salisfacliOW
*sing tirneenongh to. share in .the bonowsifpaiskeg J
Such a vote. Except his Hen, Frietwl..Who spoke ti
night, he bad never beard any who condemned that
vote to Lord Chatham. Anothee.ciffnitstance elseogp-
to be considered, and which hpsl.loo to mistake, said thg
was the idea that the Lord Chatham, for whom,
this vote was pasSed, was the same
.as at thee .e 1144,
of the seven years war, . flushed with ari
and in the enjoyment of :popularity... The 'fact wa
that fot eight years prior to his. death, he ha
been engaged in warm, desperate hostility towards
Lord North, such as in this day we should be shocked
at the idea of. With what power then • might
,LO.lll
North have been attacked, who had voted foi a
man who had countenanced rebellion, and, who said,
in the House of .Lords, with respect to America, that
he rejoiced there were three millions of men who would*
arm for their rights. But Lord North had'said, as
others ought, that he did not vote for these expressions,
but in spite of them. to testify his regard for one.who
had rendered great public services. .There was nothing
in the cases either of Mr. Pitt, or. Mr. Perceval which
;
afforded room for observation the votes in both theie
cases were unanimous; and if we examined the names
to the protest againstihe vote 'to the former, none of
those would be fount amongst them whom the Hon.
Member tit. Reading.-would be...disposed to take as his
model. The name of the great Lord Camden would not
be foitild,7.neithei wouldtbatthat of 'the Duke of Richmond;
but tlsrelifter ivetildlre seen endeavouring, zealously em-
ployediit tariyingtherineasure through, in favour of the
very **nest 10111114 am he Was last engaged in coin-
bat. He was ashamed to have trespassed so long on the
House, but be didsomerely to show.ths grounds of his
vote, namely, purity of conduct, great* talents, and a
suffiiieney Of time in theft -employment to. make the
public sufficient judges; and on these grounds he.would,
lon his 'tom He would not say that• persons might not
also 'be swayed by anziliaryeaotiem.such as
.private
friendship, which, though not lawful, as tie only mo-
tives to support a public measure, might'be admitted
as an auxiliary to sweeten its performative. ' Personal
-enmity, however, was not a legal auxiliary- in the op.
position 'to any measure; for all such feelings should
be laid aside, and not resorted to on any subject. It
should be bornejn minclohat !' mors
.obrall irqs, ' and
every feeling of an hostile nature ought to 6e ariiji-
guished.. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet near him
"his
iti itatidrall a' Man's public life as the ground of
"his vote, although one part of it might no doubt; be
more particularly pleasing.,,and therefore an auxiliary
in' inducing persons to give* 310tet but the converaitidid
not hold with equal •
strength. Whatever Over ffeill,
incongruity thete miglit•aOhr id this' beide of reniiin
inv. there -ides' jig real iftictitisisteacy id it. • Ifeisoeld
abstain ',Own - 04614. on many other grgilitdii-bgt it
.rtented the Ilona. to consider wheiben they, lad. 'ever
read with despises:ire the sentiments of- a great 'net
upon two characters who had been violent antagonists,
When Ip.spokl of ' 7 ' - - • ...
a Zatteret's atileiltind; soil ikalbapes noble sense: ' '
. , ::. 11irlissireriosiel'satentele taliensooltusl the snare " : - . .f..
.:tii Poe 44 out owp,age alsop and Who wisneaer set-
rimed of,,litkeearynness.to his party, said - . v.
I . - 0 tii #Pal iii lin triVe the tear. .
•. : !:,,,::'!.. , L.,9wal obtirlo. to Ills-risol's Um." ~ t -.,1, ..,.- -
411410rdlieflISPC4those ia Aid. of his atitslllo4•OTT.
they-wilt consistent with the common Arse rutd..t_.
fee !4t 'nf,Minknid; oil 'the iyinpathy_With' Aid ;he
peet.M m. the iettitirl Of liii-wotks. He Would abstain.
,ford ibrendiot astrloagir, on the good sense of- the'
i_ bur am sestekl..,o%, that it ehis question were
-1
• ght.Auwagl.in 7,p14 be would have given the same,
lond ifor the came teasone. He would also abstain
f :in 'AO iiiiitt, trlifli retpect to those who differed hi'
'Opihiciefibili'llillii sitt, if he were not inclined to do 'to
. • that iceonnweresteeld ftimt respect to/Mr. Cenniago
lizr
saltseqqw.thelooned •to the bibtorita.. He bad
_.ic h
..,-44,044 , ORR 4 FhiP,,w. with Mr. P4oninig—Pas,
Wh caused him to fait the deepest. !merest in eve/
thing. ihOt tbaltraohihibur to his' name' pricithe on .
teiveitrfiairrfeltild'irakrone Which be plizeit above I
otlsevi•i-oht isontinoance of. that trieodshipAtobroken. -.1
' ; Mr.: 4O4lBralg4X- . muted . that the House would.
ullo*hisu,io afew.erords to express the,groupds upon'
which he *as determined to support the proposed grant
to:the far:Ail% Nis Cid-mink. The Right Hon. and.
'Untitled GenfleMeribed put•upontbe (*ink end kismet
grounds the degree ofavetght-whichwas due -to thise.
auxiliary essittiderations
..wilich should be ,allewed to
influence the-votes of Hop. Meinbiej dividing on it sr*,
lion like lie preseet. He- ad just!y said, that pnoste
friendship might-be admitted- as one of those, int he:,
for ode, *at not only proud 'to avow the influence of
l,
but even.ofgratitude Land did he. consider.
himself at liberty.to do so.. he cmildeasily illubttate,not
only the greatness pleated, but the kindness ofheal t, by
which the eminent individuid lii-giiistion was diitin.+
guished. As in economy, of WhiCh so anith.had been
'said, he really thought• it absurd to waste the. time of
the House in combatting the arguments derived from it.
Hetet was a nation that, in the gouts* of
.fifteeo years,
had been relieved from 39,000,0001. of tales, yet was
stated not to possess the power of gilaitiiig 5,0001. a.'
year to proside for the• fa inilyLotone Of its most eminent
public, servants—not out of its ordinary income, bm out
of a fund otherwise at the disposal of the Crowe.
,fie
Hou.Membet for Reading bad referred .to „periods in'
nui-bissory- when none but naval and military services
mere-rewarded ; but it should be remembered that the
periods of which be spoke were extremely remote—
some qf them 700 .years ago—when, in point of fact.
Omni were no civil services at a 11... In more recent and
. better times, numerous .instances- could be adduced of
- 'civil services being so rewarded out of the public revenue;
and if Hon;Gentlemerkwoold take the trouble to tax their
memories a little, they would find that many ofathe noble
families at tbepresent times were indebted to the reward
the civil services of their ancestors fOr.their own sta-
tion in society. It was one result of die working of the
British Constitution that it had the effect of 'removing
from the House of Commons to- the Peevagemen. or
the descendants of men, who had rendered great public
services, There bad, perhaps, acarcelyever oxisted a
case jn which a
.juster occasion arose than the case
Of Mr. Canning. He, from the peculiar institutions
:of the country, could not have been removed to the
'higher rank of society, seeing that his presence was
coastantly demanded in the lower - branch of the Le-
, Aislature. Was it not right that at least his family
-aiould rer.eite that dignity to which confessedly he
wis entitled, and which Would have 'been conferred
upon him did not 'the .practle of our Government
, .interfere with it ? It had been the common prep-
Aim, in -seam like the peesent.sto grant pensions for
their lives. -and though he would not compare the
public services of Mr.rtanning with those-of the Ditk
Of Wellington, as semilHoltouriible Members had do
yet, hii would feirlestip. appertho Vie House, dad
ePelakilmrabtetileakbere-tb •proveif they could, the
.the:seerieu* of 'Guy Ikisiga.,Lotd, whose family were 4a
,PoilePion of, a peneiop.for their lives, had surpassa4
loose of Mr: :Canning. There were not, of ihegrounde
oissitid insupport Of-the present motion by the Ri
liOnAutdileaructitituitemau -opposites um which hi

(Alr..) would not bate. williegly tuppottysl.; . and in.
.reference to'what fell hem the- Hon. Mengstr-ter *5.:,
set, he would say; that if any porpgnoy Ale* enCir.,
Canning could draW from himeapresithlteesairo•
bation, it would be shat in which he ha:4 - t lamaelf
to the viert of that' ionourable Members ,
Mr. D. W. HARVEY 'aunt agreedwitit the Hong
Member t who had gone. before lfilti, that irtbbf 'Wert,
not to make a gra\nt. to a public servaitt‘. mill, as tht
relent proposed-geant, unol talents- equally splendid, ,
should appear, then indeed along time might be ee-..
• clod to elapse; but it was not from any apprehensing.
derived from the probable frequency of such becur
.4)e
renCes he should oppose it, but upon grounds %tits dV-
ferent. When he considered the public lives of thesis
Honourable 'Members by whom the grant was sup-
potted, he could got help remembering thattheyi had ig
every instance opposed the measures of Mr. Canoing 7, '
nor could he erase from his mind the inspresston '
which the character and conduct of Mr. Canning had
upon the fate of the country—nor could he torget
that that distinguished individual had on every occasion.
manifested the most bitter and uncompromising hostility
to every measure connected with the true inteiestt of the
people. Never was the stream of his untameable elo-
quence directed more forcibly than when it flowed in.
that course—never did man indulge in more savage
and brutal derision of the corporeal infirmities of *
fellow citizen, thin did the person whose memory it. '
was now sought to honour at the 'expense of that.
people, against whom he had ever shown himself hos- '
tile, It was alleged that it was the contempt of pecu-
niary concerns, the total disrega'rd of self interest,.by'
which he was distinguished, that made the present
grant necessary. That statement appeared scareelfy,.
consistent with the eagerness with which that Rtgh;
Hoo. Gentleman seised upon an opportunity of gouger'
to Lisbon at an expense to the country of 14.0001. 'lf
the services of the individual, in question were really so
great and splendid, why should the Session be allowed
to linger almost to its termination—why should no step
have beentaken till Right lion. Gentlemen were altnoet'
forced, Reit Weald appear, into doing something, by:
the notice Which a Noble Lord had given ? Heconf:
fessed.he* felt the greatest surprise at seeing the prop°. '.
sition supported' by Hon. Members prolessing WW4**:.
principles, when he recollected the number of years dal..-..,
ing'which the whole stream of' Mr. Canning's elOgaetrok;
hid been stirected against them and"tpeir friends; it4si •
when he recollected too, that on their forming aktionr
ne4tiori with hiat,on elate
.occasion, he had.sliet :44
to them with an
.air of stiperitrity,- Which 4tlaral*L
home, fqtantl it difficult to forget. He wis'tiatspitilie4 lie
finding Lipp. Memhers
,so toe"' lose sight al: "the interit
ferm opposition of Mr. tanning to every ittealitriXiC"
reform/rag soots overlook his expressid.deteiteinaelitif --
to resist.the repeal' of the .his
and Teat'.Ao,lol.L.
.No one mire, admired the° splendid buists. of cloy**,
.With which he Watt-iiccattanted-to delight, but, at _Ebb!:
assure-time, lie rineleht,iftrre" alter tifr Me --mttelstereleatZ
elfects which hiiCtrihdip)hq cllgrac ter, .and istweven-
titiled oponthe country.
• : - Dr. PHlLfrMthig- iiiiiplititdzlice-Igierit?-atieFetil-
liirged upon the public chide:it of Mr. Canning in
terms of the }liaises' 09u iellionandrespect. He denied
that that distinguished individual had been influenced
'by Ai, motivaseacept those:proceeding frolothe.. utmost
exakelkloire of.,country,.and that .ennobling 401441
postburnoucrenown, from which-the greatest &cootie" •
avery.age and country had arisen. , •
• • •Tanicts.thanar Irma the pure spirit dads raiso . ..., .-..oit,
To spurn drlitlsts, and tirlsJiorioms days,
~,,. .
..
It. was:impossible to, give credit 'Aube assextion,thae
.iftie-
love of money could infleireee,e loins! and; feelinge.,m
constituted‘ and it .was inspnetible to ,suppine Oat 'a
British House of Commons could' deny tOtrasela.-.0,404,
so slight a restimtiny Grits filotitdde:lloo? dasitll64lll: ,si t
: Sir GEORGE MUR itA,yentreated the if onselttteciekig
eider the debt which it Itial,contrecaecitp.!fiti c 0,6-
'gird entreated them to itecellect hop trittra:M
"tft ft.* t
hate beep tohisfe.nlMislirbeti.quitting lifergbeehpit
that a British:l4*e 'of-Cdotmone woilid.have Of I
to make ihet.peovition tor lik-wife and labillY w 1
the devotion ofilit builtapd to the irrices of .the..wuL
try had 'incapaiitated himself froth acquititit 114eMW
9f creating. if varies of .this, nature were.iefiseeti, •• pie
of the most powerful means of stimulating these}
of youthful:aspirant* to' the publie.seciriceortoulk-
lost. He courd-have but . one motive for wishing il -
the present question should. be pressed to it divkies%
namely, that the memory, of the deceased would bens.
much honoured by7some persons endeavouring-to With.
hold it, as by the cordial vote in its favour which othiee:
would feel bound to give.. His :undying fame -w
drag their names along with it to future ages,. with
degree of celebrity' that nothing in themselvel.e..o
ever have conferred. -
Mr. LIDDELL said, that with reference to whit.:ha4
fallen from the Hon. Member for t ofchesier, 'with re-
spect to the Manchester massacre, if any man cOnsideveit
the history of that time, Mr. Canning's speech's°, 'Mos
duct would not justify the terms that the HbnottraMe
Member had used. On the other occasion (then 41-
10gded) Mr. Canning had used some words indisereet4
which he afterwards regretted. but they were extorte'd
'front him by the manner in which evidence on that tie.
Casion had been perverted and falsified. The vote 'was
called for not on the ground of- Mr. Canning's talent!,,
,but that be had detoted those talents for 28. years to the
service of the country. He was also a representative
rf the people; and he should glory in his.aupporting the
present vote:
". 'Mr. BATLEY•aaid the whole British nation would.
be disgraced, if the great and-brilliant public services
of Mr. Canning were not rewarded. . .
The Hon:-Mr. CUST said, if he had not given Mr,
Canning support, it was becanse.that Minister displayed
1 that ambitionlwhich constantly produced disunion, H.
opposedbito while: living, but he had then no opposition
to his memeitT.,4letiOught the grant should be made.
and that tfieechintry was indebted to him for his service.
Mr. MAXWELL supported the grant, and said, 'it
did honour to the Ministers of the day. .1 ' .
Mr. STUART gave big cordial support toile Bill. .1 : 4
Sir R. FERGUSON thought the debate had tan a
remarkable:turn. It was governed, in his opinibb, by
personal feeling. The House ought to recollect tiilltht
was a constitutional question, and his opposition:wan
founded on a constitutional principle. He hecLaikam-
mity to Mr. Canning, but opposed the visit upotaie
sense of duty. . •
Mi. P. THOMSOH eve 'his opposition to 'I&
grant on constitutional principles. The etpdtettle. siwoct '-
observations mad. on the vote ,given hpAe-..ntioority
would, no doubt, provea strong iodate/Noe mone
again the same wet. Jig shopld eote for the jpotieo Of
his Hon. Friepd, tiff Member. for A.be "ittle. ' • '
..
i Sir JAMES SFALRLETT.h.4
.That, undesitiilli ibe.
Gallant 91ficer teimputaaay Wi, irapsopar#l4.l4l9
Geolenbeanho Imam** against tape ,remeilikkg4l.-
stinitionid gravads. , iiiisiabantry laconmaapdaltioenlas
touch to his frianda,,a}hia gaudimpipade. bjviklita i
suisliad in tha,coalarsy. • att. aila44 ,be 141041016441
thoaa who, jellaba F.glebuta,l44l..geks44l4*4ll7la
.itbich.rl4l,Eoulli.posiditscolkek ,--.'---Alta,,G .. •
..
• • •

„

r‘

nice at the eminent. services of the de• bale i
man by his vote—(Hear,bear,lalar). la be (Sir
lubdiors.lhod. Isipootaersiecta-waaakiad of that
at this edisert.tow dlepertice thieit a,
p with the Ifoly AThaitto 'of -leaguing Lord