Star.
London, England, 1817-05-16 00:00:00

rite so degrading a punishment. He thought the case
asegbr to be further inquired into by the House, and
Le should avail himself theretuie of some future up-
pnrttinity to bring it tinder their notice.
It fr. MANNEKS SUTTON wished to give owns
explanation; as he hatilkeen misunderstood he thought
by the Honourablediartmet. He had not seen the
L'arlide furred, end lie therefore only spoke of it
from what was said by the. Honourable Member. A
copy of it had been sent for; that justice might he
done to the public, in the event of its statement turn-
ing ou: to be that libel which was expected, according
to the. acci:unt given of it. The colfeebt had been
refused, because the Officer felt he costd,eot giye it;
surd if the Officers were nut to be judgek.of a cue of
bigamy, for which the man had never' been tried,
they surely could try him for absenting himself from
his duty, aild for that, and that only, had he bees+
tried—( Hear, hear).
Mr. CUR WEN said, the statement in the paper
turned uut to be c rrect— (Hear, hear)—and the pa-
ragraph on which this inquiry had been instituted
dii not contain any imputation whatever on Major

Pl,Alister—(Hear,hear, hear).
Mr. MANNERS SUT (ON observed, that he
had already stated that be had not seen the paper,
and therefore he. could not cast any imputation upon
it; he only stoke of its contents from what had been
described in that House.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT said, he had put the
journal in the hands of a Member the evening on
' which be had asked the question, and thought it'
might have been handed round, in course, to the
Honourable Gentleman to whom he had addresse.f
the queition. It was not his intention to impeach
-the cnaraeter of the Commanding Officer : his obser-
vations had been directed against the system of mi.
litary torture ; and he should, at a future day, draw
the attention of the House to the consideration of
the propriety of its infliction, in Cafes analogous to
the present.
Mr. W. SMITH observed, that if the punishment
were for absence from duty, it proceeded on just
grounds ; but if the man disappeared to get married,
and afterwards returned to Lis duty, his absence
ought not to have been dealt with as it he had been
guilty of desertion. As the man could nut have been
charged with desertion, it seemed that he had been
punished for disobeying his Officer's injunction not
to marry.
Mr. MANNERS SUTTON explained, that he
had never mentioned the word " desertion ;" he had
carefully stated what was the fact, that the man hail
been uied for abseuting timself from his duty.
The conversation here ended.
HABEAS CORPUS SUSPENSION ACT.
Mr. PUNSON BY—'• Sir, the law whicb has passed
enabling his Majesty to detain in custody persons sus-
pected of harbouring designs against his person and
Government, will expire on the Ist day of July next.
We are now in the middle of May, a period, alter
which it is reasonable to expect, according to usual
practice, that numbers of Gentlemen will be leaving
town. I wish, therefore, to ask the Noble Lord op.
posite, whether it is the intention of his Majesty's
Ministers to apply to Parliament for a renewal of the
Jaw to which I have adverted—for a further exten-
sion of die power which that law now authorises ? I
du not: myself wish to enter at large on this subject,
because the rules of the House forbid me to do so;
Out 1 do hope that the Noble Lord comes, at this pe-
tod of the Se ram , prepared to give such an answer
As wilt sa say the itou‘e otte way or the other."
Loid CASTLEREAGH-6' In replying to thel
. question of the Right Hon. Gentleman. I have to I
acquaint him and the House, that his Majesty's Mi-
nisters will feel it to be their duty. at the end of the
present month, to recommend it to his Royal Hie'.
ness the Prince Regent to make a communication to
Pirliameat on the internal state of the country. On
that communication being made, the same course of
proceeding (namely that of appointing a Committee
to eaaniino it) will be adopted, as was pursued early
in the Session. Perhaps under all the circumstances, I
I would be justified iu saying nothing farther, until
that information was laid before the House; but,
alter the question which has been put to me, it may!
be proper, without saying any thing on the present I
occasion. that could provoke debate, or that could
commit the opinion of the, House. or of any indivi-
dual, as to what .oughthereafter to be chine, when
tie subject shall be brought under their consideration,
to state the intentions of his Majesty's Government.
I feel it, then, due to the Right Hon. Gentleman
and die House, in candour, to state distinctly, that
his Majesty's Ministers, in the view which they have
of the present situation of the country, will deem it
their sluts to repose a continuance of the measure
to which the Right Hon. Gentleman has alluded.
until the first day of the next Session of Parliament."
(Hear, hear, hear, from the Opposition.)
Mr. PHILLIPS (of Manchester)—" At the sub-
ject is one of the greatest importance—as it is one on
which the sense of the country should be properly
known, and therefore requires the fullest attendance
so Members—(Near,itar)—l shall feel it my duty,
it the Noble Lord, or some of his colleasoes, Odes not
Wei the busipeas.out of my hands, to bring forward a
mutton ft.r a call of the House, previous to the dis-
cusssion of this qoestion."—(llow, hear.) . .
Lord CAsTLEREAGH" Though -I will not
. . move for a call of the House myself, I can feel no ob-
jection to such a motion."— (Rear.) . .
Mr. BROUGHAM-641 wish to understand, cor-
rectly, the allover given to the question of my ttight
Hon. Prim'. I.desize to know, . whether the Noble
Lost means to state, that alter the holidays, his in-
Wanton is to move ir tbi appointment-of a Commit-
ter, in the same way that was practised in the early
past of the Session, prior to his submitting any other
popositsun Lathe House connected with this subject ?
file Noble Lord, I think, seemed to intimate, that
previous to the result of such ao investigation being
laid helot* us, his view is, to move for the further-ea-
teGaioo of this measure." 1
Lord CkSTLERILAGH"Perhaos I have not',
rendered Inyselt perfectly intelligible. I said, that
the firstproceeding will be, a communication from
the Pro House,Regent to the with respect to the-
-1
au. mils( te of the country.. Theo I shall move
dui HOok to adopt the same proceeding that was
paw"; 4seeconmencement of the Session—that
gs., to **int a Committee, to inform themselves
tlititextet ilk that Mania gate. I then decloed;
istud Use his Majesty's bursters Lis i. ulai

they did not wish to disguise from the House. that
they felt it necessary, for tlist general safety of the
country, that Parliament should not rise, withou;
extending the Suspension Act."
Mr. BROUGHAM—" Then it. is 'the Noble
Lord's present ()pinion, that an inquiry into the in-
ternal state of the country should be instituted—and,
independently ot what may be there disclosed, that
this measure shall be the result of it."
Lord CASTLEREAGH—" I have no wish to
commit this House, or any individual, on the subject
in question, till they have considered the information
which hi: Majesty's Government is anxious to afford
them on the state of the country."
Sir F It ANC IS BU RDETT—"There can be little
doubt of the result of this inquiry, as it is called—
( Ilear,lsear)—hist„ in the mean time, it is.rather im-
portant to know what number of persons—who they
are— where confined - and how arrested—which his
Majesty's Ministers have already caused to be taken
hear).—And I should slso be glad to
know whether they are about to be brought to trial
or not ? For this purpose I shall move to-morrow...
That a list be laid before the House of the number
of persons arrested by order of his Majesty's Go-
vernment. the. dares of their . arrest, the places of
their confinement,' &r."
Mr. BROUGHAM—" I hope that some Member
of more weight and importance in the House thau I
am, will give notice, speedily, of a Motion for an
Address to the Prince Regent, paying his Royal
Highness that he will be pleased nut to dissolve this
present Parliament while the Habeas Corpus Act
continues to be suspended."—(Hear). •
Mr. PHILLIPS (of Manchester)-oo Mr. Speaker,
I beg leave to move that the House be called over
on Monday. the 2J of June next."
On the qto•stion being put from the Chair.--
Mr. J. P. GRAN said—" This subject having I
been mentioned, I think it illy duty to call the wen--
don of the House to X circumstance which I have
just leaned to have taken place in Scotland; and
which, I think, will spew the House the course of
proceeding adopted by the Law Officers of the Crown
with regard to the question about which we are now
talking. I dare say it will be recollected by the
House, that a Learned Lord; whom I am sorry not
to see ir, his place—l allude to the First Law Officer
ot the Crown in Scotland—stated in this House,l
that in the town of Glasgow, where Government I
thought it their duty to take up -several persons
charged with treasonable conspiracies, he had reason
to believe that those conspiracies and associations
were nut confined entirely to the lower orders ot
people.' Now, Sir, I happen to know, that there
was but one person taken up, who was above thel
rank of an operative weaver—and that person, as it
is represented to me, had no connexion with any of
those associations. That individual, who had about
one hundred and sixty persons in his employ, and
who, therefore, was rather above the lowerorders,
and was, in short, a master-manufacturer—that
person was arrested, and bail was offered, to the
amount of £lOOO, for his liberation, in order to pro-
ceed with his business, and continue to give employ.
ment to his workmen. This bail was refused—
and, no doubt, very properly, under the circum:
stances of the charg-, the individual having been
accused of High Treason, and committed to the
Castle of Edinburgh. But lam now informed, by
the Agent of that Gentleman. that, without farther
examination, the Law (Veers of the Crown (hay-
ing, • under these circumstances, occeasioned his im-
prisonment for six weeks) have now consented to
his liberation, without giving any explanation on
the subject, and. without even demanding bail.—
So that from this it appeared, that, without due in-
quiry (and I would not state the case in the absence
of the Learned Lord, if there were any prospect of
my having an opportunity of stating it in has presence)
this gentleman was arrested. A respectable indivi-
dual, who, on the chewing of the Law Officers them-
selves bad given no cause for incarceration, has been
incarcerated for six weeks, and, without inquiry, they
have consented to his liberation, leaving him to seek
for redress, which I hops he will demand and obtain
iu a Court of Justice—(Hear, hear.) It is for the
House to consider these circumstances well. when
we are called on to confer on the Law Officers of
the Crown, the power, without limit, of confining
persons during the suspension of this Act—(Hear.)
When, in the instance I have stated, such has been
the result, the House ought to be extremely cautious
in continuing so dangerous a power. It is not my
intention to attribute unfair motives to any man. I
merely state facts; and I think they are not unworthy
the consideration of the House, and of his Majesty's
Ministers. I trust an explanation will be demanded
of the circumstances under which this transaction has
happened, and that his Majesty's Ministers will be
to exculpate the Law Officers of Scotland, who,
I think, have exercised their powers in a manner that
calls for inquiry."—Tbe motion was then agreed to.

FINANCIAL STATE OF IRELAND.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT rose, pursuant to the
notice he had given, to call the attention of the House
to the present state, of Ireland. as affected by 'the
great load of its taxation. At that period, which he
would ever call the period of Ireland's glory-413hr
years 1781 and 1782, when the great exertions (*his
Right Honourable Prink! the Member for' Dublin
( Mr. Grattan), had called into lite the spirit which
defended Ireland trims her foreign toes, which pro-
tected her trade, enforced an obedience to her laws,
almost unparalleled, and rendered justice to hersolt
by making ter Parliament independent of Great Sri.
rain ; at that period her burdens were comparately
light. She' looked to herself for protection, and not
to the existence of a large military force—(Near,)
but this happy state did not last long ; party kills
and dissensions spon broke Out, and under the goverg-
',sent of a succeeding Lord Lieu tenant that system arose
of governing Ireland by division amongst her people.
Was it not natural for a country which had surren-
dered bee independence, and which had since borne
an equal, and more than equal portion of the public
burdeni, to come now to the Imperial Parliament,
and look for auequil portion of redress Hoer, hsor,
pm the Ontruition kadia).—Would it not, be would
ask, be Considered that Ireland had reason to com-
plain, when lie should state, that England had been
relieved, since the Peace. from a burtben of not less
than seventeen millions of taxes, while the relief in that
way afforded to Ireland amounted only to 4434440taff
The impolicy of our continuing to gan.lreLstid to the
present 'llmOunt, be grid* 19. *I 99% Who
•'••• , . . ,
•

took the trouble of comparing the amount of her re.
venue lit the last yeArs with *that it was in 1808.—
The new taxes imposed since 1808, were calculated
to produce a sum of three millions and a half, but
with this addition, how much Would the House think
did the revenue of last year exceed that of the year
before those taxes were imposed ? By the vast
of 410,000--(Herr, hear).-Tbis was the great p; ice
of that vexatious system of taxation which had been
imposed, and of all the discontent it hadproduced, and
this was accompanied by w•tices of &continuances
of horses, carriages, servants, tee. which would amount
in decrease of duty to infinitely more than that sum—
(Hear, hear).—Would not that circumstance be suf-
hcient in itself to strew the necessity of having some-
thing done ? Among the many causes which con-
tributed to swell the poor rates to their present enor-
mous amount, and to bring on that poverty which
was so generally felt by all classes of manufacturers;
there was not one which had a greater effict than the
state of our best market, Ireland. The decrease in
' the demand from Ireland for the eleven of the prin.
ciple articles of English manufacture and produce,
since the year
.1813, was in the proportion of
£3,400,(X)u to £1,100,000. The official value of
the articles imported from England into Ireland,
Was, in 1813, £3,400,000. In the last year it
amounted only to I/1,100,000. This was the amount
of the official value; the real value must be conside-
rably greater. Of these articles, the decrease on each
would be best seen from this statement. The value of
goods imported into Ireland from this country was,
In ISIS. Ise 1816.
In Woollen Maths • ‘2,000,000 £600,000
In Leather - , . 200,000 49,000
In Iron and Hardware ...... 340,000 170,000
In Cotton Twist 310,000 130,000

Total Decrease
And in looking at all these articles it would appear
that they were not the luxuries, but the mere neces-
saries of life. The decrease in ihe-dutiei on Malt
was alsosreat. The number of barrels made in three
years Were'thus-
-10 1814 there were
In 1815 . ...................... 67000 Ni
In 1816
In spirits, the decrease of the duty was great m pro-
portion. The decrease in wines amounted to £140,000.
Though the duties on them were now doubled, the
produce was not half what it was a short time before.

TINY were in 1615 X5:6,000
1816 444000

Making a deficiency of
It might also be necessary to add, in order to shew
the farther deficiency which he expected from the in-
land taxes, the notices served on the Collectors of
Hearth and Window Taxes for the years ISIG and
1817, for the discontinuance of 42,000 windows and
10,000 hearths. (Hear, hear.) These were irrefu-
table symptoms of the distress which existed in Ire-
land, and of the utter inability of a great portion of
the people to pay, for it was natural to think that no
Mart would deprive himself of the beim& of light and
heat, if he could possibly par for them. (Hear.) Be.
sides those, there was euumber nearly as great in pro-
portion of notices for the discontinuance of carriages,
horses, and servants, and jaunting cars. (Hear.)—
The Right Honourable Baronet then contended,
that as the expenses of Ireland were greater in pro-
portion than those of England, -and much greater
than she at present.could.be expected to pay, it was
tika duty of the House to afford her some additional
relief. The Right Honourable Baronet concluded
by moving a series of Relations, which set forth—

. _
-"
That ibe gross Revalue of Ireland for ten years after the
Union was AV 4614.060, making sa attirese of d 11.161,400 a year.
" That the gross Revenue *lreland fur the tea years !mow
distely succeeding the Union wa5,C451.579,000, making aa ave-
rage of £5,5.11.900 a year. - -4
" And that fur the last six years- the gross Revenge was
£55,496,000, making an average of £6.05,000 a year..
" And that justice. sound policy, and the real Interests of are
Empire, required that the burdens now imposed upon Ireland
should be diminished."'

Mr. VESEY FITZGERALD defended the po-
licy which had been acted upon in imposing taxes on
Ireland, and contended that it resulted from the
Right Honourable Baronet's own chewing, either
that the taxes were not such as to defeat the progress
of the revenue, or that its progress had not beeo such
as had been stated. The deficiency of last year was
no proof that the measures of Finance previously
adopted were impolitic. It might be accounted for
from the general distress which had been felt, and it
was not fair to'select that year to compare•with 1808.
In the last year the deficiency was £1,191,000. The
whole of this had fallen on the Customs, Irisli Excise,
and Land Tax, with the exception of about dilo,ooo.
The Malt Dudes remitted had caused a falling of of Zi07,000
The reduction of the Duties au Spirits - - 56,000

Making together a deficiency of - £493,000
in
The repayments made for the stock of malt hand
had amounted to £167,000, and there had been a di-
minution in the duties levied on hearths, amounting
to £40,000, but which had been estimated at M 0,000.1
The at340;000 which bad been remitted in taxes
ought to have been brought into the account by the
Hon. Baronet, when he was arguing against the im-,
policy of the taxes, him the falling off in the revenue.
The following deficiencies had occurred last year :
On the Assessed Taxes of Ireland - - ii:s4,ooo
ro be accounted 101' hoof Hearth duties retained 40,010
carriages - - - - , , .
Windows ' - - .. - 36,000 4.000
Hones • - - - 5,000
And these were all that were to be noticed with re-
spect to the inland taxes in alit whole of the last year.
That the taxes had not. fallen off when the duties
were augmented, furnished, in his opinion, a strong
argument.in favour of the policy which had resorted
to them, and the notices of discontinuance which had
been received, grew more out of the rigour with which
the collection of them had been enforced than out
of the character of the duties themselves, and it
was hard that the efforts made to collect them should
be censured by those who once so loudly complained
of their non-collection. (Grin of !leer, hear, leer.)
Notwithstanding the falling off which he had admit-
ted to have taken place in the last year in the inland
taxes, their produce, under all the circumstances of
-the times, had amounted to £150,000 more than ever
they had done in any former year (with the exception
'of the year 1814), and to edema° more than the
sum which they produced in 1811. The Honourable
Gentleman then 'went over the Loans raised for the
service of Ireland since 1812, and strewed the annual
charge created "by them; which he.proved to have
berm, is.dcquistely met by the taxes imposed for that
purpose. Tile increased Tates ,rained in Ireland...k

the five Tears ending Infit. fay"B; 11116,11 ad #46€0,1
the whole revenue in 1801, as the het ?titivate in ct,
five years ending in 18161 was as follows:
In the Customs
Excite, ecc. I 1,73 We

irt,tem,o6o
lie could not but concur with theitight Hon.Barnr.
iii lamenting that iii Ireland, -floin the pirticular el..
cunistances of its financial sitnatioA,: the te.acrion
occasioned by the transition to a state of peace, hod
been much greater in extent, a'.d was likely to be
much longer in duration. But let it not be said that
those who disagree 4 from the r,solutions noes, moved
were less sensible of the hardships of Ireland, or felt
less sympathy in the distresses of the Irish people;
than the Right Hon. Baronet ssho brought them
forward. Under all the circumstances of the case he
could not assent to the
.Resolutidnsanitst moved. •
Mr. PONSON BY 4164: tfi4c the Right • ilottourie
Gentleman who spoke fast seemed to have mistaken
the object of the Resolutions, and seemed to think
that an attack was made on the financial administra-
tion of Ireland. No such attack was'intended. The
only objects of his Right Honourable Friend in
moving these Resolutions were—Forst, To shew the
actual financial situation in which Ireland now stood;
and, in the second place', ty she* -that there were
certain articles on which the taxes now levied might
be diminished, and that by such dimihutiun not only
would the but dens of the people be relieved, but even
the revenue itself would be benefited. The Right
Honourable Gentleman said, he did not deny the dis-
tress. He (Mr. Ponsonby) did.isif,cneinth exagge-
rate it. For his own part he thought it not easy-to
exaggerate it ; indeed, he knew it'to be go great that
he was frequently tempted to bring the subject liekre
the House, were it not that by doing so he felt 50.,-
vinced that he could only aJd to the public i4torma.
dun without adding any thing to the public re4f.
It was highly expedient that the House should be in.
loomed of tie actual financial situation of Ireland.
It was also the duty of the House to inquire and eon.
sider whether many of the taxes levied in Ireland,
could not be diminished with advantage to the reve-
-1 nue ? That there were some articles on which them
could be much reduced, be was well convinced. Bat
lie was sure that his Right Honourable Friend did
not mean to cast any imputation against any Wiwi..
dual concerned in the financial admini.tration of Ire-
land. It was no imputation to say, that last )ear
£17,000.000 of taxes was taken off in England, but
only X 370,000 was taken off the people of Ireland.
That was no imputation—it was a tact ; and could
not be denied. All that was now wanted was an it.
quiry whether there could be any further remission of
taxation in that country
Sir H. PARNELL insisted at some length that
the entire system of taxation in Ireland should be
revised. The Hearth Tax, in particular, SUS cf
nature so repugnant to :Fe Inndainental principles
the Constitution—it was so vexatious, from the!
powers given by it to the Revenue Officers, and l•ad
excited such loud complainta, that it oublit csrtain:y
to be taken off entirely. The same tai had been len;
taken off in England ; and the same reasons whirl
occasioned it to be taken off in this country ought to
operate as to Ireland. He remarked, that the dimi.
nution of the import of English articles into Ireland
was accumpauied by a corresponding diminutinil in
the export corn to England. On the whole, from
a firm conviction that the situation of Ireland insane
of the most grievous distress, and that it was the
duty of the House to turn its most serious attention
to the financial situation of Ireland, the resolutions
met with his most cordial assent.

Mr. DENNIS BROWNE supported the motion.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER.
Whatever might have been the nature of the Reso.
lutions moved by the Right Honourable Baronet,
.and whatever might be the accuracy of the facts vr..
tained in those Resolutions, lie should have thought
the House in no way jostified in adopting them, at 4
time when all the matters to which they could relate
were under the consideration of a Finance Commi.-
tee. The Report of that Committee would put e e
House in possession of all the facts and detail, on the
financial situation of Ireland. The speech and mo-
tion of the Right Honourable Baronet proceeded 03
the assumption that the proportion borne by Ireland
in the burdens of the war should entitle that country
to a remission of taxes to an equal extent with Eng-
, land. tut it was to be recollected that England
had purchased that remission by coritrieuting the
sum of £228,000,000 of taxes. He could not be
any meaus agree with those who thought that all the
distresses of the people were to be attributed to tut-
lion. If any proof of this was wanting, it might be
found in the situation of alaynt every natioa en the
Continent of Europe. In Switzerland, for instance,
where there were hardly any taxes at all—Yet tbe
distress in Switzerland now was' so great, that e.r.
state of Ireland, bad as it was, was one of comp.r.s.
tire happiness, when contrasted with that at Seiut-,-
land—(lfear, Hear.) Under all circumstance!, he
felt it his duty to move the previous question.
Mr. M. FITZG E R A Lll supported the Resolutions.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT shortly replied. He mail.
seined that Ireland, in .proportion to her encl.:ice:,
had paid more taxes than England during t::e we,
and it this were admitted (and it could not be denie,9
could there be a more itrerragab:e deduction th.in t:.
—that Ireland was entitled to a remission tasatiss,
at least equal to that which was made in LeSl4rti•
To such a state was Ireland now reduced, tat err
some time past the landowner there had been plett
his taxes, not out of his income; but out of his C:11)1I4;.
WAS it not evident that this.conld not last long ?
Was it not evident that nothing could be more in•
politic than to continue taxation at its present height?
It was from his conscientious conviction on this sub-
ject that he brought forward the present motion.
The question was put on the Resolutions succes-
sively, and they were all negatived without a divisive-
Mr. GOULBOU RN brought in a Bill for the
inoreeffectual prevention of murder and manslaughter
in places not within his Majesty's dorniniins, which
was read a first ti sie, and ordered to be read a second
time on Tuesday next, and to be printed.

• mamba or THE CROWN.
Mr.PONSONLSY moved that the House do resolve
itself into a Committee of the whole 1-I,nise
Civil and Military Offices continuance Bill.
Lord LASCELLES wished to suggest. as he t':•
derstnod this was not a permanent measure,' the p7e'
'priety of adding a clause which should etfrrni
L principle to flat tlutititni at Parliament; 'YEW