Star.
London, England, 1817-02-04 00:00:00

gnat Email) and Ireland, la Parliament aastnabrid.

" e Petition of Thomas llogootl, of the Parish of St.
Pin!„ Covent-garden, in the City of Westminster,

" Humbly theweth,
• ri it your Petitioner tea parentless and friendless boy; se•
• '"( l! years of age, who, until lately seized by two Police Of.
•t• 3 ..1 seta to Mein Iv the Police, obtained the honest 111t111$
;, lag by the tale of Religious and Moral Tracts, which be
t" purchase of Mr. Collins, 01 Pates nester-row.
Itu your Petitioner has, tor more than four months last
• t bb
ol'ed and he Esti lodges, at the house of Kean
• :10 I:vc. a, No 13, Gee's•eourt, Oxford-street. and who is a
caw to Mr. White, of Mortimer.strect, and who is also a
et•chenut its Mary•la-honne parlsb.
" 'Hat: yt,ur l'etiti-her has never in his life lived as a vagrant,
bst ha. always had a se tied home, has always pursued an ho-
tot and eti.ble means of getting has living, has always been, and
•dy to prove that he always has been an industrious, 'a peace-
:, sober, honest, and orderly person.
"'That, on the 10th of January, I ttiT. your Petitioner, for
!ne ;el ed down a potting-bill, printed by " J. Downes," who
the Primer to the Policei and which Bill was entitled " Mr.
Awe hinted 4.1 of the City e• nthoi,- was committed by Mr.
the New Prison, Clerkenwell, where he was kept on
tread and water, and compelled to lie ost the bare boards until
twenty-second of the same month, when be was tied, with
slaw oto-rs, to a lung rope, or cable, and marched to
lhcfss Hall, and there let loose.
flat your Petitioner has often heard ft said, that the law
afardsgtotecs ton to the poor as well as the rich, and thy, if un-
itise totinant redress any where else° every subject of bit Ma.
) has tit.: road of petition open to hint; therefore your Ped.,
tiler, brisl unable ip obtain redress in any other manner toe
t:.e grievous wrongs done him by the Kitimat* of the Pate,
two humbly implores your Honourable Heinle to afford hint'
pro••ction and redress, and to that end be prays your Htmourable
Haute to permit him its prove at the liar of your I ItioNtrable
and sever:tithe aUeb•ations contained in this his most
be.i:Ne Petition- " Ansi your Petitioner will ever pray."
Lord FOLKSTONE then moved, that a Cores-
appointed to examine into the facts- alleged
the petition, that 'he petition be referred to it, and
this Committee Repot t to the House.
Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON assured the Ilinse,
tat he knew :lathing more of the tate described by
Noble Mover, and brought forward in the petition
than what he had read in the public papers. None
4. the facts or allegations had come to him through
other chavel. He had-seen the examinatiou of
boy stated in a report from one of the `Police
and had afterwards read, that one. of two in.
„ids who had taken up his cause had said, that
meant first to have laid the car before Parlia-
, but that upon subsequent censideration he had
' his mind, and meant to m eke a representation
subject to the Secretary of State for the Home
rtment. In consequence of this intimation he
Riley Addington) had expected such a reptt-
, as would have laid the facts before hint in
a shape as would have warranted inquiry. No
umication, however, ,had been made to the
!: the Home Secretary ; if there had, he could
tie the House that every :retention would have
paid to it, and that the fullest and strictest in-
%aeon of ell the circuenst;.nces would have taken
:e, in the most prompt and x:alous manner.
The Hon. Mr. RENNET was surprised that the
Honourable Secretary had not made one obser-
at about the 'motion for a Committee. Was be
it ? (No, no,frorn several pares of the Bouts.)—.
not help, since he was up, making one re-
, on the place where this poor boy was confined.
thought it utterly disgraceful tc the country.—
leer, hear.) No man kept a pack of hound: ir.
a wretched place, and with such wretched ac-
iodations, as these poor creatures were confined
(Hear, hear.)
The ATTORNEY GENERAL would ask the
it was proper that this case should be
. in Parliament in the first instance, or
it would not be better to adopt a different
and apply to a Court of Law for a legal re-
The petition complained of fake imprison-
. an illegal act. The petitioner stated, that
he had often heard it said, that the law affordi
to the poor as well as the rich ;" and
:at he had'heard it so said, he beard what was in
country practically true. (Near, hear.) Let,
fore, a legal remedy be first sought, and if un-
to obtain redress in the regular manner, let him
. exercise his right to petijion the Legislature.—
this petition was received, the Hon. and Learned
titan gave it as his opinion, that the applica.
of no person who complained, in similar circum.
of personal restraint, could be refused, and
functions of Parliament would thus be coalman:
with those of Courts of low. Objections might
started against bringing an action for false impri-
in this case, but they did appear to hint (the.
ley General) so strang as io warrant a depar-.
from the usual course. The boy, it might be
•1 was young, but could he sot sue by his guar.
`? He was poor, then let him sue in forma pos-
h appeared to him that it would be the better
01 proceeding tahring the subject of this pet-
fore a Court of Law.
• RILEY ADDINGTON begged, in eeplana-,
to suggest, whether it would not be,more beco-
to tefrain from pressing this subject farther at
and to allow it t.o, stand over for a day os
61 proper inquiries should.take place in the,
It to which he belonged, relative to the
The reside of these inquiries ha
. Noble Lord and tbi Howse, should
communicated to tba. Hui ket • (iffser.)
)LKESTONE-.-:" It is contrary » ea) ,

• .
dirt Wish to retrial: from 'calling for the Commits e';'
but ss it appears to be tie general wish that I should
let the matter stand over, I shall yield. r will •nott,
however, withdraw it, but merely adjourn it until'
Thursday next. (Hear, hear I) -
Lord CAS I'LEREAGH resisted this idea of ad-
journing it. The practice of presenting petitions of
that kind woold oisen a door to applicants wiiich
would he subversive, instead of preservative of the
course of justice—(Hear.) For his own putt, be
would require a much stronger case than was yet
ru +de out before he would consent to admit the post.
poneno:nt of a consideration which ought not to have
been so prematurely introduced—(Hose.)
Lord FOLKS I'ONE---,, 0.1 one coniition, and
on one alone, can J consent to postpone at, and that
• , that if the boy should plead iii forme; ilatarerb, t LI
Attorney-General will act as hi. advocate —(4 lough
and hear.) I require this aid from the King's Attorney
Genernl, because in the person of this boy a most
flagrant breach of the liberty of the subject has been
comniitted, and one which is the more to he felt
from the lowliness and unprotected state of the suf,
ferer. How is such an abje:t boy to seek redress,
and that, too, tram a
.man who receives the wages
of the Crown, and can cotnmand suitable Counsel r
if the Attorney-General will not consent to be Cie
boy's advorate, in the event of his legally suing fur
redress, I shall nor withdraw my motion."
The ATTORNEI-GENERAL replied, that this
was thy first time since the House was the House of
Cunoions, that a detainer was about to be pin upon
him under such circumstances. It was quite impos-
,ible that, as a Law Officer ul the Crown, he could
be required to stand in such a situation. The Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman repeated his fins
tiler arguments, explanatory of the course which the
boy ought to pursue, and by which he could have the
first Counsel in the kingdom assigned to him, who
would as zealously advocate his cause as they would
that of the proudest men in the realm—(Hear, hear.)
When the N able Lord took those observations into
consideration, he would rather have any other advo- •
cate for the boy than the Attorney-General.--(A
laugh, and Hear.)
Mr. BROUGHAM agreed that the Noble Lord
could not ask the Ateorney•Generai t-) undert -ice this
task; but he may be able to prevail on the House to
appoint that Learned Gentleman for such a purpose.
There was nothing unusual, as second to be suppazei,
in calling lot a Committee to submit a heavy griev-
ance to their consideration. It was possibre, that.
after this consideia.ion, the House may order a pro-
secution. At present they had only heard the boy's
prima facie case ; and he would ask, did its bare reci-
tal not disclose sufficient ground for having the affair
sifted to the bottom ? It WAS needless to remind the
House of the circumstances of the case; they had
made their full impression when the Petition was read.
The only question was, whether any inconvenience
could arise from allowing the matter to remain over
rt'or two or three days, to allow of the Under Secre-
Htary of State's inquiry, merely for the rake of being
able to resume it, should the answer. as had happened
before, be unsatisfactory to the Houser—(Heer, hear.)
Let it be also recollected. that there was a standing.
Committee of Grievance always sitting.
Lard A. HAMILTON thought inquiry was ne-
cessary, and he felt himself boned to vote for it.—
,Tbe boy had been committed to alleisownwand ter
what r--. 41 for having no visible means of subsis-
tence." Sorry he (Lord Archibald) was, that if this
were a just ground of committal, them-were. in the
present distressed state of the country, hundreds of
thousands, who• were in a high state of criminality.
(Hear. hear.) This was not, !Imre/ore, tie • moment
'to allow the notion to go abroad. that such unhappy 1
persons were liable to •be immured in a dungehe, be.
cause they had no visible means of subsistence.
Mr. WROTTESLEY saw no ground for re-
ceiving this petition ; if they did receive it, they
would be inquiring into the conduct of a Magistrate,
against whom the petitioner had his proper remedy
elewhere, and the boy did not seem to be without
friends to assist him in his course. (Hear. hear.)—
If this mode of seeking redress were to be allowed on
every false arrest, a petitioner, withont even the for-
mality M an oath, would call upon the House to de-
' cide upon the merits of his case. (Hear, hear.) The
complainant had his remedy its due course of law.—
His claim by petition ought to be his last, not his
first resotirce. He would, therefore, vote against
receiving the petition.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT believed that there
was a considerable difficulty in suing in forted
pauperis ; a certain preliminary was necessary in it;
which alone might interrupt it. A certificate should
be signed by Counsel, that the matter was of a naturei
proper to be entertained in the Court, and he could
not say whether i: might be easy to find a Learned
Gentleman inclined to sign such a cerificate. The
case might be of such a nature as Counsel woul,•1
wish to wash their hands out of—it was a sort of
Government oppression. for in that point of view he
was obliged to consider it. It was the act of a
certain Police Magistrate. an officer of Government,
for an act connected in some degree, however re-
motely, with politica% circumstances; it was for
searing down a paper that had issued from a Pollee
office. for the purpose of calumniating a particu-
lar individual. and, in•a case of that nature, it
might be difficult to 6nd a Counsel who would
undertalt to advocate the cause of an obscure in-
illeiduel -against a person in authority, and appear.
ing at least to act under the direct influence of
Government. It was also for the consideration of the
House whether the liberty of every individual in the
country should bc placed at the niercy of an arbitrary.
Police Magistrate? and in this point of view, the
subject assumed a paramount importance. He ad-
mitted, however, that had he brought up the Petition,
he should have been willing to withdraw the motion.
for the present, atter the promise that had been made
by the •Right. Honourable the Under• Secretary of
State for the. Home Deparement,. who had met the
,question very Italy, and bad undertaken to have the
mattes investigated, nor in so doing; should he enter-.
lain any apprAensione for the ultunate fate Of the
Petition, if he might judge flout the feeling of iadig-.
nation manifested by the House nu hearing the ea-
cunistancesoof the ease. If, howel'er, the'Noble Lord
' felt differeatly.Ua the subject, and was resolved to
press the motion, be should vote :for it, nor•dithe'
think that the' House, in entertaining the Petition,
would lb 'the Afightest &give, Infringe on &rum%
''', proceedings in the Courts of Mkt. . •

• •
the AtrOINEY-GENERAL said, that there
were scores of Gentlemen it the English Bar, won,
if applied to in an rase of oppression, would do
their duty, no matter what might be the rank of the
parties, and this, he doubted not, seas well known
both to the Honourable Baronet and tl.e Noble 1.431-.4
opposite.
Lord FOLKSTONE said, that he would not re.,
fuse to pnstponl the motion.
Mr. BRAG GE BATHURST edvised the N 3512
Lord to withdraw his motion altogah r.
Lord FOLKSTONE replied, that he would have
no objection to withdraw the motion, if the circa -'
stance at his having withdrawn it did not appear on
the Journals.

The SPEAKER observed, that he co-old not close
any deviation to be made from the custom of insertiag
the late of every motion on the Journals.
Lord COCHRANE stated, that those Bills pur-
ported to Ii ive been printed by Downes, Printer to
the Police °fliers; that they had been issued under
the direction of the Magistrates, and that officers had
attended the posting up of them, and were after•
wards stationed to watch whether any person would
tear them down or deface them, that the persons so
off.mding might be dragged before the Magistrates.
to be treated by them as they thought proper. He
telt that unless the subject were examined by a Com-
mittee, no certain knowledge of tie circumstances
could be collected ; for police ofiLers, and others,
might prevaricate and conceal the facts, which they
could never venture to do before the House or a Com-
mittee. He admired tbe dexterity of those who now
argued against having the subject submitted to the
House of Commons before it received the decision of
a Court of Justice, remembering that the very same
persons, not long since, argued against the inter-
tereoce of the House in cases on which a Court r‘f
Justice had already determined. By such reasoning
the House would be precluded altogether from exer-
cising any control over judicial crncems.
Mr. YONSONBY would have felt Much satisfac-
tion if the Noble Lord (Folkstone) had seen this
matter in such a point of view as would have induced
him to follow the usual course of proceeding in cases
of petition, and be satisfied for the present. in having
the petition lie on the table. —(Mearq —Had he made
such a motion he would not have been incapacitated
from subsequently making any other motion on the
subject, which he could die better do otter heAting
the result of the inquiry premised by the Right I
nourable Gentleman. It was difficult, he observed,'
to speak on this question in the present stage of the
proceedings, withodt do;ng injury to either party.—
(gear, hear, hear.)—The subject must be a matter
for future deliberation ; but he would add, that if tie
allegations contained in the petition were substan-
tiated in a Court of Justice, damages would net 4e the
only satisfaction that would be requited for suet an
outrage—(Bear, bear).—He was almost asharnzil to
ask the question, but he begged to be apprised whe-
ther persons suing informs parsiseris Were liable to
stamp duties
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied, that
they were not.
Lord FOLKSTONE fiaving finally consented to
withdraw his Motion, the Petition was ordered t.) lie
on the table.

^ 1,..4 yams
to and I.e sill
hves s, No 13, Ge.
cate to Mr. White, of
tv.tchrent itt Mary.la-ho,
U 01b.: yo,ur
lea ha. always had a se I
rot and ess.ble memos of
it ready to prove t l.at he a
ide, sober, hottest, awl
'lltat, on the 10th c
I: ring poi ed down a putt
it the Printer to the Pohl
ifewt hosed cut of the CO
beton it: the Nrw larsot
I.re.td and water, and con
t wenty-seeot id of the
ahust Yf y otn-rs, to a
Hichis Hail, and there It
that your Petitionst
::x4. grotto ion to the p
glee tothraut redress hill
has th: road of petit
ti . ler, brig; unable sw of
bvieeutts wrongs done
mot humbly implores T(
purecuon and redress, all
guise to permit him to
11,..!all and itectrlthe
Ite.gbie ertitioo.
• Lott/ FOLKSTO
slitter be appointed I
in the petition, that
that this Committer
Mr. HILLY AD.
that he knew twthit
the Noble Moyer, ant
than what be had
tithe facts or allege
any other channel.
the boy stated in
Offices, and had afte
diriduils who had t
he avant first to hi
mot, but that upon
altered his mind, ant
the subject to the
parunent. In et
Mr. Riley Adding
sensation as would
such a shape as wou
ammunicanon, he
*Pace of the Home
:sure the House tl
.e:n paid to it, ant
ettigation of all thi
,:ice, in t'ie most p
The Hon. Mr. 13J
' ight Honourable
a.rou about the .tr
r Ana it ? (No, on
le could not help,
trk on the place i
e thought it tuts
ilear, hear.) No
At a wretched pl
ommodations, as t
0. (ilear,hear.)
The ATTORN]
rouse whether it
unlined in Parli
'nether it would I
nurse, and apply t
.edy ? The petiti
ient—of an illega
he had often he,
rotection to the
he had-heard
.1 country practi
,:rafore, a legal
'Ole to obtain redn
,en exercise his rig
this petition was
tntleman gave it
41 of no person al
antes, of persona
functions of P
d with those of
started against I
in this cab
'torney General)
.re from the use
, was young, b
He was p
in It appeared
of proceeding
before a Court
• r: RILEY A,
to suggest, w
'g to tetrain fro
nt, and to arc
until proper i
'attment to w
tinssnurce. T
d promise the
tidy contras.
ord FOLKES