Star.
London, England, 1810-03-23 00:00:00


-

. prisoners; but here Ministers I To Lord Knee's question no answer was given.
disclosed can beget no inconeenience
progress it may have made. The facts
cruelty not only towards our own Lord DERBY supported the motion, and °bar-
is required than a statement of the -
also towards the French prisoners. • ved,that the opinion of the country would be in its
proposition vitas made. How it had
urge could be made good against , favour, whatever might be the decision that night.—
•
and what truth there may be in the stand convicted of a most atroci- He then made an allusion to the strangers at the bar,
Duke of Cadore, that the British Governmt... —re was something behind in this mat- , in consequence of which
to entertain the proposition, or purposely eluded is ._ ...en Ministers were afraid to avow. I Lord MORTON moved the enforcement of the
lest it should lead to a negociation of a treaty of Lord WESTMORELAND opposed the motion, Standing Order for the exclusion of strangers.
peace, poor as was his opinion of the present Minis- and contended that there was no similarity between Strangers were accordingly excluded, and not ad-
ters of the Crovtn, and he thought thcm by far the the two cases. mitted arils during the remainder of the discussion,
worst of any by whom this country had ever the mis- Lord GREY thought the answer of the Noble 1 A division, however, took place, we understood,
fortune to be ruled, he could not bring himself to Lords opposite to him quite unsatisfactory. He upon the second motion, and the numbers were
believe they could be capable of such conduct. If read part of the report of the Committee of the ' Contents 29—Non-conteats 38—Majority against
they have been guilty of it, then he would not hesi- House of Commons in 1797, and the third resolution the motion 9. .
et
pst Committeee,eot edt
hb be
eatpt
at
to the! e too loortiou irc
ler
tie
In
,t of
0r thet
i
tare to say, that they had filled the measure of their . which had then been adopted, which resolution pro- , Earl GREY, we understood, then moved,
crimes. The motion with which he should now con- I ved, not only that there was no foundation for the
cat‘i'seTs hawiltiaChSehaerve
general oxch.ange.of prisoners between tbii country and ?rung."
dude, would afford them a fair opportunity of excel- I charge of inhumanity towards the French prisoners,
pating themselves. The Noble Lord then moved an but that the British Government at that tiny- mani- division took place—
humble Address to his Majesty, praying his Majesty felted every disposition to establish content, - ee, an exchange of . Non-conteuts 40
would be graciously pleased to direct that there be , prisoners, and that it was wholly protracted by the Proxies - 35 Proxies - fa
laid before that House, copies or extracts of such 1 extravagant and inadmissible pretensions of the ene- i Total -64 -OS
•
LIST OF MAJORITYMity ONn LstOtReDMGoREdmyS'SLMOTION.
correspondence, and the dates thereof, as may have •: my. But in order to give Ministers every possible ,
SmWt.onoodHonelaho,utLe,L°Lordril
passed between the Transport Board and the French , fair play, and put the sincerity of their assertions to
Government, relative to the exchange of prisoners. I the test, he would solicit his Noble Friend to with- '
Newcastle, Duke PRESENT.
Lord MULGRAVE observed, that the very ob. I draw his motion, for the purpose of moving for a Pomfret, Earl
wEldetotnm,
oLroetiodod,
Earl
Hood, Lord
Lord
jection which the Noble Lord had stated was of such I Select Committee to inquire into the groonds of the
force with him, that it induced him to oppose the • charge made by the French Government, or of sub- Liverpool, Earl
Montrose,Macclesiel4,Dohe Earl .
Boston,,
Lard Mulgrave, Lord Limerick, Earl
motion of the Noble Baron. Surely their Lordships , milting in its room a motion to the House for ascer-Sandwich, Earl
must feel how novel and unprecedented such a motion taming the dates of the proposal, and of the refusal Glasgow, Earl
Harcourt, Earl Boston, Lord Sheffield, Lord
must be, under all the circumstances of the moment. of Ministers to accede to it. . Clancarty, Earl
atoLloorr: Canterbury,cbetteßis Bishop
opbp
Napier, Lord Wellesley, Marquis
That House, and the Government, would ill consult , Lord MULGRAVE would not consent to take the Ross, Earl
R
timestdloe:
their dignity indeed, if they were to institute a solemn matter out of the hands of the Executive power, in Harrowby, Earl cred
proceeding in that House, merely to notice some , order to refer it to a Committee. He thought his 1 Bathurst, Earl De Dunttanville, Hereford, Bishop
. . , Mount Edgecumbe, Lord Exeter, Bishop
loose anonymous squib cf a French newspaper. Be- answer fully satisfactory ; and in his wish to make snarl Gambier, Lord Salisbury, Bishop
sides, the question was a most delicate one ; and, in- it more so, he was ready to say that no proposal for Paulet, Earl Elliott, Lord Cloghex, Bishop
stead of forwarding the subject which the Noble Ba- an exchange of prisoners had been refused, and that LIST OF THE MINORITY
ron had in view, of accelerating the release of our the arrangement for carrying that desireable object PRESENT ON sotto GREY'S MOTION.
brave sailors and soldiers from captivity, it might have into execution, was still under contemplation. Gloucester, Duke Douglas, Marquis • Holland, Lord
Somerset,Duke King, Lord
the very contrary effect, and not only retard, but de. I Lord HOLLAND said that he would have agreed
Stafford, Marquis Grenville, Lord Ketch, Lord
feat the accomplishment of the object altogether. It to the-proposition of his Noble Friend if it had been Lansdowne' Marquis Derby, Earl Essex, earl
was still expected that the arrangement would pro- accepted. But the Noble Lord opposite, it ought to Downs Lire, Marquis Moira, Earl Cassius, Earl
teed, and that a cartel might be established, and could be observed, bad made no answer to the charge of Spencer, Earl Bolton Lord
Ponsontby,LOrd 1.43-focansf,"tlEarEal a
any thing be more unprecedented and imprudent than delay. And as to the other proposition requiring Grey, Earl
Lauderdale, Earl Beshorough, Earl Dononghtnore,liarl
thus prematurely to drag into discussion an unfinished only the dates of communication, his high spirit dis- Darnley, Earl Albemarle, Earl Carrington, L.
negociation ? Ministers held themselves responsible , dained to stoop to what Mr. Pitt had done in 1797. Cowper, Earl Hereford, Marquis
for what they had dOne and were doing, and he never I—(Hear, hear!) Lord Holland then declared that THE FOLLOWING DISSENTIENTS WERE ENTgattb whtg.
would consent to any untimely disclosure of a nego- ; when he brought forward this motion he really had DIATELY AFTER THE LAST DIVISION.
ciation, whit... might be frustrated entirely merely hardly a doubt that the Ministers would have been William Frederick Hastings (Earl of DeinciustoUcre
by having been disclosed. Before he sat down, he : able to give a plain and candid answer, and he stagoril Moira) Keith
Somerset Lantelowne
could not but advert to some observations which had • thought that they would have considered themselves Essex
King Derby Wilson (Earl of Cast
fallen from the Noble Baron when he gave notice las under some obligation to him for having brought Lauderdale Hillsborourt (Mar- sills)
of his present motion. It so happened that he was 1 the subject tinder discussion. But the manner in Lucan quis of Downshire) Vassal!, Holland
Cowper
not in the House at she time, nor did he indeed I which it had been met raised a vehement presump- Albemarle Rosslyis
SpencerGreyrt DuDutton(Marquis of Ponsonby, Lord
expect that the Noble Lord could ever have se- I tion that they themselves were conscious that there
Carysfo
Douglas) poasonby (Earl of
riously thought of bringing forward such a mo- I existed matter of most serious charge against them.Bolton Bessborough)
tion. It appeared, however, that in giving' notice I—They might, perhaps, lull themselves in security Grenville Carrington
of this motion, the Noble Baron had indulged an I from their hopes of a favourable vote from the House, _
observation respecting him, and the cause of his • but the country would not be satisfied. But he would HOUSE OF CoMMONS.
absence, which were as destitute of candour as of propose another test of their sincerity. The dates of
COUMntsr. of Hest,
th e
issue
emo
ft the
order presented
v cortalnfrAo.
andP the ryeapece tire dines of saierdnatissenneste frrtis
all fOundation. Indeed, he could not help saying! the communications could give no improper infor• the Bank of England,
there was a degree of impropriety in the conduct ; mation even upon their own statements. If they the year 1804 down to the latest period.—Ordered to lie oni the
of the Noble Baron which he did not expect, and would agree to give the dates, he would restrict his Table.
which he should not have hazardedon no better ; motion to them ;if not, he would put the original general LOFTUS postponed his motion respecting the Pao!
Laws till to-morrow.
ground than a street report. The Noble Baron had i question. He read his motion forte dates of coal- The Blackfriars Toll Bill was read a third time and gt
stated that he (Lord Mulgrave) was not in the confi-imunications on this subject from the first of Septem- The Rotherhithe or New London Docks Union Bill was read
dence of his colleagues, or that it yet there was any : ber last, a seternd time, after a division upon an Amendment proposed by
intern rse still between them, some of them, he ho-
, The original question being about to be put, Mr H. MaaTus, that it be read a second time this day sit
ho-'•
months, this Amendment was. lost upon a division, the numb.
1 pod, would find means of making a communication ; Lord GRENVILLE moved, that the part of the
being-,-For the original Motion 27—Against it 29—Majority o,
to him of the Noble Baron's notice. Now there was proceedings of 1797, containing the matters referred A Message from the Lord* required the leave of the House to
not a shadow of foundation for such insinuation. He to the Secret Committee ; their Report upon them ; examine T. W. Cooke, Esq. respecting the Corn Distillery Pro-
trusted he enjoyed the confidence of his colleagees, the request to his Majesty to communicate the Report hibition Bill, in progress through their House. The House re.
solved to send an answer by their CownMMessenger
and that nothing had occurred to interrupt the har. ;to other Governments in amity with this country ; ii. he Irish Distillery Bill was read a third time, passed, and si-
mony which subsisted between him and them. He : and his Majesty's answer, that he would commune- dered to the Lords.
should be glad to see any Noble Lord get up in his cate accordingly, should be entered on the Journals i Colonel BARRY brought up the Retort of the Committoe fee
place, and point out any action of his life which immediately before the present question. (Hear, hear.) , improving the Bogs of ireand.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. FOSTER brought in a Bill for ootninulttg an Act for
d,could justify a belief that he would continue to act Lord LIVERPOOL did not object to the entry, I, lating the Drawbacks on Sugar in Ireland, which was rea a,
with any sort of men whose confidence he had lost, but maintained, that Mr. Pitt would have made no ' first and ordered to be read a second time to-morrow.
or who would hold no intercourse with him. ' I reference to a Secret Committee in 1797, if a nego- On the Motion of Mr. ROSE, the Freeport Bill went through
Lord HOLLAND, in explan'atioo said, that the . ciation had been pending at the time. a Committee, the report of which was ordered to be received to.
Noble Lord should be able correctly to state what he ! Earl SPENCER replied, that the Noble Lord had I mor row'
I The Quarantine Repletion Bill was read a third time and
had said befoie he bad charged his conduct with im- ' an cpportunity of satisfying /himself on the point; ; passed.
propriety. 'What he said was, that after the shame. but that to the best of his (Lord Spencer's) recol- ! The Committee on the Expiring Laws Bill was postponed till
I ful concealment ss hich had taken place in other im- lection, a negociation for an exchange of prisoners ! 'Thursday next.
portant matter, and the want of confidence and cor- was actually pending at the time. ( Hear, hear.) MOTION FOR THANKS TO Silt ROBERT ertssoe..
duality which had betrayed itself between some mem- : The original motion was then put— Mr. HUTCHINSON felt much. satisfaction in
hers cr the Cabinet, it was not unnatural to suppose . Contents 27—Non-Contents 39—Majority against i
thought a y yof opinion cld
.
cated to the Noble Lord. i During the exclusion of strangers, we understood exist, as the merits of Sir Robert Wilson were so get-
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE also commented that the second motion, being for the dates of commu- ; nerally acknowledged, both in and out of that House.
upon the strangeness of the argument used by the nications,hadbeen put. When strangerswere admitted, . He wished them to dismiss from their minds the con-
Noble Lord (Mulgrave) respecting anonymous : Earl SPENCER was arguing, that there could be sideration of two points that might appear to be in
squibs, when it was proved to be an official doer- no objection to the production cf the dates—which ' seine measure connected with the subject. First, the
resent, and of the existence of which the Noble Lord, : would shew whether or not there had been any delay, I present perilous state of the peninsula ; and, secondly,
who was one of his Majesty's Ministers, appeared to without disclosing any particulars of the negociation. 1 the policy or impolicy of the war. The want of sue.
be utterly ignorant. The Noble Lord had stated i ' The Earl of ESSEX contended, that when the Mi-leess in such a contest, he contended, could afford no
the pendency of a negotiation, but he had carefully nisters refused to listen to so reasonable a proposition, ' rational ground for withholding their thanks froth a
abstained from mentioning dates • and, notwithstan- , there was strong reason to presume that something i meritorious officer ; and where merit like that dis-
ding the serious charge made by ;Jae French Govern- was wrong—and it was the duty of their Lordships ; played by Sir gobert Wilson was conspicuous, be
ment, the Noble Lord had evaded giving any contra. to take care of the character of the country. felt anxious that they should bestow on it that ap.
diction to it. What, then, was obe inferred, but' Lord MULGRAVE affirmed, that this motion, plause and those rewards to which it might appear
that something remained behind which his Majesty's though apparently simple, was a most artful one, cal. entitled. He then enured into a detail of the services
Ministers were afraid of disclosing? • ; culated to take the management of the business out the .of Sir Robert Wilson, dwelling strongly on valour,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL contended, that the of the hands of the Executive Government. As to I skill, and activity displayed by him in the pemnsulaS,
answer given by his Noole Friend (Lord Mulgrave) the question of delay, it was impossible at present to i which had gained him the thanks of the Portuguese
appeared to him so satisfactory, that he did not feel give a direct answer to it—(Hear, hear!)—for though I Government, who offered him a pension, while they
it necessary to make any addition to it. Their Lord- . the dates might shew what, at first sight, might Toe : procured him the proudest distinction he could hope
ships must feel how indiscreet it would he to hurry considered as delay, the matter might be explained ; r--the approbation of an admiring enemy. This fact
into public discussion the totrticnlars of a negotiation by the documents themselves. These could not be ' was proved by intercepted letters, in which it appeared
which was not brought to an issue. I produced till the termination of the negociation—and ; that a high rank in the Legion of I—Lmour had been
Lord GRENVILLE professed himself to be one the dates could not form a proper ground for any i conferred on those who had distinguished themselves
of those who was not satisfied with the answer of the proceeding. , serving against Sir Robert Wilson. If it should be
Noble Lord at the head of the Admiralty. In fact, i Earl GREY said, that if the question was artful, ; said there was no precedent for such a motion, he
it was no answer at all, and it betrayed a levity and ' the Noble Lord's speech in one part was plain and in- i would say the times were such that it became fleet's'?
an ignorance which could not well be supposed to genuous ; for to the question of delay he flatly re- sary such a precedent should be made, Why were
exist in a Cabinet Minister, who did not seem to fused to give any answer at all. He contended, that the battles of Vimiera, Corunna, and Talavera °ire;
know till that moment that such a document was in ' the dates might afford some grounds of proceeding. I quited t Was it because the power of France had
existence as the letter of the Duke of Cadore to the The Earl of LIVERPOOL, as far as his recollec. been overthrown, and the balance of power restored •
Dutch Finance Minister. As little satisfaction did tion went, thought this mode of calling for dates, be- INo ; it was impossible to suppose that Sir Alm
he give when he treated the motion of his Noble ' fore the documents themselves were produced, was . Moore or Lord Wellington with such numbers, all
Friend as novel end unprecedented. The precedent , unprecedented. The dates, hesides, could afford no ; they commanded could attain an object so nigh
which had been mentioned proved the contrary, and ground for proceeding. i They were sent to set Spain and Portugal an exempte
attested the sense which the Parliament and the Go- . Lord HOLLANYS contended that they might, '
of valour, which followed, would free those cteintries_
vernment of the country then felt at the attempt ; and put the extreme case, that it migllt appear that a from the yoke of France. Sir Robert Wilson had .
to asperse the character of both ; and he entreated . proposition had been made on the g 4 of September fully acted up to this principle, and was thereforea;
their Lordships to consider the great difference which last, and not answered till now. Na ope could doubt titled to their gratitude. He regretted the lace °ll
occurred between the two cases. 'Me accusation that this would form a good ground for further pro- , nisters in Portugal and Spain (Mr. Villiers and Mr.
I( . •
against this country then was, that the French priso- ; ceedings.
Frer were not there to bear testimony to his high
e)
ners were treated with inhumanity. That accusation I Lord KING asked the Ministers, who had refuaed deserts. He pledged himself to prove that his move:
:
was refuted in the most solemn and public manner. ito grant the communication of the terms and circum- ments in the peninsula had been directed br sot
What is the charge now ? Why, that the Govern- i stances of the negotiation, upon the ground of its, be- policy. Though young, Sir Robert Wilson had .
ment of this country have refused to listen to a pro- ing still pending, and who had resisted the Fornmu. . 17 years almost constantly in distinguished servwest_
position for an exchange of prise -lers. By so doing,' nication of the dates, upon the grounds of such infor- ; Which he anxiously sought to share even in th_e_umtr:
if the charge be true, would they not be guilty of : mation being insufficient to furnish materials of any !gdistant and inhospitable countries. He (Mr.Hst
_b.
again Dt:s.
much greater and more comprehensive cruelty than' proceeding, Whether they would prorbise to commit'. i inset') did not join in the vulgar clemour
greatest sta
WAS before imputed to this country, for the French nicate the facts or dates now withheld when the e.st l naparte. H. e thought him at once the
v or modertl
Government only charged us with want of humanity gotiation stated to be pending wai closed ? - • Mao, sad the greatest Yeitriar that Velegkt

acts here to be towards the Trench
; nothing more would be guilty of Cl
dates when this countrymen, but als
been received,
Indeed, if the charg
assertion of the them, they would st
ernment refused ous crime: There w
,osely eluded it ter which Ministers 's