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London, England, 1829-04-29 00:00:00

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have thvalfect of quieting every murmur of the kind?"
Uprorthet- suggestion be now acted ; and thilieh' be
. could not hut regret that the duty had not devolved
upon persons abler than himself—though hgregretted
that it had not been discharged by a bleat-et of his
• Pllaletty's Governatent —still he trusted that Ire should
mat with support; and he honed he would be allowed
the time and patienee of the House while he gave a rea-
son for thiscouree he wes shoot to take. With respect
to the great importance of the question pending, it was
unnecessary to enforce it on a country remarkable for
the extent of its parochial assessments. By the returns
of 188 it appeared that the poor rates of England and
Wales amounted to 7.334,2661. and of that enormous
seas 1,362,00Q1. and some odd pounds were paid for
other purposes than supporting the poor ; that is seven
teen per sent. out of the whole. it was not told how
this money was disposed of ; but a great part of it 1111011 l
go to the collection of that enormous assessment. The
sum thus levied for poor rates was a great deal larger
than the total revenue of many States of Europe. But
to it must be added four millions more lie paving.
lighting, watching, church rates, &c. making, is all,
neatly twelve mill6os raised by parochial contribution.
It was worthy of remark that the revenue of the Otto-
man empire was only ten millions; that of the United
States something above five millions; while the aggro-.
gate amount of the yearly revenues of the two Siciliesr
Sp.in;end Pro tugalsamounted to 12 500.0001 exceeding
the parochial assessments of England by not much ;note
chart half a million: 1n1.795 the poor rates of this
, roomy were only two millions bnd a hilt. If he
turned from aggregate statements to defisilwthe east•
would be still more striking. In one parish of the
metropolis the parochial assessments am-oared to
173.0001 a sum exceeding the revenue of many Ger-
man States. parish at St. James they amounted
to 63.0001.—m Saint Giles's and Sam Georges
to 50,0001.—in Clakenwell to 36.0001. (a sum making
ju t twice as great a revenue as that arising from the
German principality of Hesse Homburg)—in St. Mar.'
this to 30.0001.—aud in St. Pancras to-38,0001. The
petochial assessments of Middle,ei amounted to
759 0001. out of which 101.0001. was paid for other
purputes th in the relief of the poor. Now, *hen thesi
immense aunts were levied off parishes, was it not Do.
torsi that they `should be anxious to know how they'
were expended ? When jealousy; was en•ertaisted of an
officer so high its situation as the Chancellor of the Es-
chequer, was it not nutria' that parishes should leel
• • jealous' of persons livihnin they saw controulling their
parse. and whom they cowed not think higher or bah"
thitil themselves? He would ask whether it were nu.

cessery that a self-elected and uncontroullable body
should be roasters of vie purse of pariihinners as they
tit resent indubitably were? Honourable Members
would be aware that the constitution,* the country did
not recognise any such power. He would refer to the
autholity f Dr. Borne, who said. that anciently, and
by common law, parishioners paying scot and lit re-
gulated parochial affairs, -and no other persons had a
right to come to their meetings; and he further said.
that select vestries originated in the practice of parishes
choosing persons to manage Their affairs, through which
they gradually were dispossessed of their rights, both
of dr mg so themselves and of electing their own ma-
nagers. He (Mr. Hobbouse) bad beard it stated from
the Bench that there was a tight. by. prescription sane-
stn Stilect Vestries. He dissented completeiy from.
teat opinion. A• to any .ancient prescriptive usage, it
was mutely out -of the question, but many of the
rights of the Select Vestries were-very modern indeed.
Fos instaisce. that one, the nightly watch, commenced
in the time of 'George the Second; the" paving and
lighting with the 10th of George' the Second ; and. as
every body knew. tie pi or rates with the 43dof E
both. These Select Vestries had noancient tights. The'
manner in which they were first of all constituted they
. had been told be the quotation fitioi Dr. Butte.
was admitted that they were not authorized by Act of
Parliament, but by what was called custom. He could
. find na very ancient authority for that custom. He
found that. in 1691, an issue bad been 'teed allay ar.ith.
respect to a parish. ins which occasion the custom bad
been held good; bat. with reference to' that case, the
commentator observed that, neither the lessoning nor
argument ever having been mentioned, it was impossible
to say on' what precedent the drcisiotrwas founded.. In
1740, o.t the other hand, in .the ease of the parish of
Nottballerton, the cutout was • held to be " It
might. not be useless to go into a caul which went nearer
the point in question than any he had been able to dis-
cover. He mimed to the case of the perish of Sr-
Martits-iasthesifields, one of those he bad the honour to
represent. That parish once embraced a number •ol
others, and it might not be amiss., to show how the Be-
leet fest. y .systeni crept into it. and, totteacte the effect
of that system upon it. The eisslieitdate!sf the pariah
books was, horn 1706. In 1662 a Select Vestry was
created by a Bishop of London, and in-1673 bisect was
confirmed by another Bishop of London: The chief
appointment of Select Vestries was, however, by Act 10
of Anne, authorising the building of certain new
churches. arid the nomination of parochial commis-
sioners. gifted with the power of fillinic up vacancies in
th• it bWy by a voted their own. In tlusact nominating
thesecotnmissioners the palish of Ss. Martin-in-the-fields
w as given as a model. It appeaee I that great disturbances
and discontent prevailed inconsequence of the mode of
snanagenient adopted by these Select Vouries; and on
the 15014 May, 1693, leave was peen to bring in
a. Bilho•regulate the abu:ei of the Select Vestries wriihio
the bins oi mortality. Amongst the petitions against
' that ffill was one f oqs,the parish of St. &odour. South-
wark, 'which stated dui Select Vestries wore founded
in custom; but, on trial by-law afterwards, that very
parish was found to have usurped, the pow er, and St.
Saiiooes. Blythe ark, was at that moment. under pusr..
. polar coattail. The affairs of the parish 4 Sc. Martio.,
Kf.eueminster, then underwent examinatio% and woe
reportedunfavourably, it having appeared tkat not out
half of qui money raised for poor rates had been applies
to that purpose. The consequence was. that on the 240'
.t 4 May, 1.716, the Bill to regulate the abuses of Select
Vestries within the bills of mortality was carried in the
• - Hosts, of—Commons hi's majority of 135 to 34. On
_,;, looking over the juornalsof the House be ob,Vvrd that
the Committee had dyne a very minsUal thing. They
had coast to the bar-of tie Mosso, and said at they
bad omitted.one item in the parochial accosint,, which.
was the itee of 491. 17s. for a dinner to-tbo Church-
. iivettfetig' if the Mulberry Gardena, by which it ap-
',,,. peatetidiet the practice of feasting at the expense of,
the parish was by no- means 'Oder& the year 174)
petitions were presented from Arariefal palkhes. The
facts which he bad stated showed that the Corruptions
and Apses charged upotirtielect Vestries were 'not of
modern growth. Indeefic, the parish of St. MMtin, being
liftable, to obtain 'chef from Parliament, hafiespolese
upon: four several .oceasiemi to • the Court ofTitle:l
Bench., Two of the reecnds Mating to ,the questMs
were io eaistence. One of Seal showed that the clime:
• von of the existence of a Select Vestry in the pert* et
'St. Ilfastisr:sufte to trial in 1791, Wok Locci-lielaialli

ars a feipod ism, ofvbkh,tbe terms 1...
upon by bothrilies. - ThiJory peesentall the to,
1111 fret, finding that therelsed been a Select Vests, th-
om time immemorial. Opt* this Lotd ICellyoll (*-
anima, that-unless the number hid been always fixed;
the custom was Pio an ill one; and upon this the Jury
having retired,foond that the number bad alweysbeen49
The House would be surprised to .heat that.. when by
mandamus. sad other means access was afterwards had
to the books of the parish, it appeared that the number
bad been not 49, but 22, and had never exceeded the
-latter number. It was impossible -ur suppose' that the
Jury could have found as they had done if they had an
opportunity of inspecting the books df the parish. The
Select Vestry. however, continued, in consequence of
the verdict, to maintain posoission of the power which
they had previously enjoyed. In 1828 the parish again
attempted to release themselves from the oppression of
the Select Vestry. and the same issue which bad been
formerly tried was agreed upon between the Vestry and
the parish as the question to be decided. The case came
before Lord Teo* terden, who. for some teas- ns best
known to. hinstel& struck out the words 0 certain som-
ber," and left the question to be tried upon the esist-
' once of a stint set of persons having used tb manage
the affairs of the pitisb. This alteration in the form
of the issue was in direct opposition to the Opinion of
Lord Kenyon, who had said that the limited number of
the Select Vestrymen was of the essence of the ques.
'bon. The result cf the alteration was, however, to
produce a verdift esactly the.same at in the.former
case, wird) enabled the Select Vestry to rule the parish
ever since: However, 'Other parishes had beep more
tortuous. One or two took the law into their 0,10
hands, • and succeeded in obtaining the ti'dminiytratici
of their own affairs. althmigh the method by, which
they accomplished the &loci was a little singular. The
pariahioners of St. Ana's, Soho. one day broke into the
Vestry, burnt all the account books. made themselees
an open Parochial Vestry, and have so continued ever
since. The inhabitants of St. Poufs, Coventsgarden,
,had recourse to a similar measure with like success; '
and the Select Vestry in the I Ater parish. although
they bad been in possession of their power fur owe
hundred and. seventy years, 'allowed judgment to
.go
Eby default. In the case of the parish of St. (like, the
custom was ,found to be not reasonable—Vicar).—
Other Select Vestries existed iu consequence of Acts of
Parliament, as-tbet of St. James's, Westasineler..W.hith
lusted opoo a statute passed in the reign of James the
Second. He (Mr. Hobbotoe) was aware that some of
the .elections of vestrymen in the country had been at.
tended with great tumult. and be admitted that the
Bills brought into that H 4 use in 1818 and 1819, by the
Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. S. Bourne), and
which afterwards were enacted. had produced great
benefit throughout the country. He should wily observe
upoo that subject, that the prevision for enabling per-
,sons to vote rateable to their property cOuld not be in-
troduced into the Metropolis. There were in England
and Wales 2,868 Select Vestries existing. some in con-
sequence of the Act's of 1818 and 1819, some by cus7
torn. and some on the authority of pirate Acts of Par-
liament. la most of these existed great abuses, but
throe did not seem to be much greater now than they
wete a hundred years ago. At that period a very isr-
genions co hor.Defoe, the author of "RobinsonCrusoro*
published a work- upon the subject, from which, art was
not perhaps as well known to the House as tke .r Life and
Advvntores of Robinson Crusoe:' t e should beg leave
to re •d an extract. (rise Honourable Member then
proceeded to read an extract from the work, which was .
called " Parochial Tyranny."- and which was to the
effect, that there were no greater abuses in the world
than those of select' vestries; that they exercised the
most flagrant of 41 tyrannies, turning the people into
thegreitest of slaves, and
:obliged them to pray the
• King,to' telease them from the jaws of these devout ers,
who !eit riders in atriums, sad who, instead of circu-
lating, Luke other governing bodies, only stagnated and
stunk in the nostrils of the people. Rogue succeeded
to rogue in perpetual rritatiori, and if the Select Vestry,
by accident or mistake, chose one honest man amongst
them. he was either soon rendered as corrupt as them-
selves. or obliged to retire altogether ; for it might be
said of a Select Vestry as of the Mint, that, although a
man might go in honest, he never came out any thug
but a rogue). "Such was the tennor of the extract read
by the Hun. Member, to which he added another from
Dr. Borne, who pronounced the st stem to bean uncoil*
stitiniiinal, oppressive, and nefarious annihilation Of the
'rights of the parishioners. In 1825, the Hon. Member
for Waterford had brought into the House a Bill . for
the cortection ot the abuses of Select Vestries in Ire-
land, and the principle of that measure he (Mr. Hob*
house) meant to introduce wholly, or pattly..4.be
could obtain a Committee for the consideration of the
subject. He now proceeded to the fagot of the case,
which trete more accessible than I . in rezti
conse-
quence of the Vestries having been e .. by dit-
latent means, to submit their acco‘nts tor' public' in
spection.• He did not wish to dwell, upon the dingier
which bad been given to the late worali) Rector 'of Si;
Paul's, Cogent Garden, upon hes mating a visit to the
pauper children at N rwuod. and in wilich,between the
bucellas, sherry, and champagne. with roat•peter and
noyeau, -the exerose amounted to $44. The Honourable
Member litre catenated a variety of visitation dinners
and venison feasts, costing the parish- 4247.. 471. lls:
and athrr similar sums f tr each separate emestainment.
There a as, huoever, one item which, frog its great
singulaiity, he thought deserving of the 'pedal +men-
tion of the douse—it was an item of 1054 18.:$1..!. in-
curred to IblB for busing the ltectot ! He believed
that ii the witty Rector Lomeli had been consulted
during his lie opts the i•ibject, he would have objected
to bring buried at b.) great an expense to she partalt...;
tA. leap). Some explanation of this transaction was
afforded upon . inspecting the accounts of the under:
takers, who,appraied to be the Messrs. Boordillons, a
vrry odd passe tot persons employed in burying an
English Parson. The fact, however, was. that they
were not Indy the undestakers, but also meralers of I
the Select Vestry; and ibis ciscumstanee would afford
some clue to the whole transaction. In the parish of
Mary-la-Bonne, the Select Vestty consisted of one.
hundred ant( twebty three persons, whe teview their
own acts, and who an 1b24 raised the parish rates front
2s. 6d. to Ss. 4J. in the pound. In the parish. of ft.
James, for. the 144 tea.• years, the accounts of the
.Guardians of the Poor leaf been audited by themselves,
the appeal *bin appeased to ezist being only from
Philip routilt.to Philip. sober. In the parish of St.
*George the Select Vests y had in one. year charged a
,pipe.of wine' for the communion service. In Christ
Church, Spitalfields, 801. had been charged for care-
'in inci gilding 'the legs of *the COMIDIIOIOII table,
land then a cloth wet purchased for the purpose of con-
cealing„, thii carving and gilding from the eyes of the
-parisliseners. Upon another uccesion, 501. were charged
-bra pair of Invites. In Sr. Giles and St. Geroge s,
Bloontabory, in 1820, twelve mess voted 1,6401. for the
tepeirs-of the 'church, and took the mosey out of the
peer rates;' and %ULM the.money wasafter wards di-
'Tided amongst four of the mat who voted itows7.-

_--

He now came to the account"; oribe ishenits At a's Mar-
tin.... appealu_s)b that
day's
balance of
the expense of Vai4Elleor &.* slintteeti is 1320.
was 511. 16s. It tied varied , different year frion then
wail 18517, whonAt aa6"flted to'B7l' 2* 6d. There
also appe.red eie;y vest a charge of SSL 10i. 7d. for
Bibles and Prayer *coke; but. althollalt the antrfwas
.made in the pltual nomber, it appeared on esamot
nation. that the expense was incurred for one Bible
and one Prater Book, whieh were always presented
to the smiting churchwardens. Teem .wiss also
an item of 481. 12s. 9J. to Messrs. and and Adam,
" for the Arthdeacon's truisms," which was a corn' .
poition preached by the Archdeacon 'on the occa-
sion of the death of the ever-to-be-lamented Queen
Outdate. The sermon. homelier, unfnittinately did not
sell, and the parish made good the expense of printing,
&c. Sir Michaud Birnie, when Churchwarden. was
declared, on settling his accounts, entitled to a balance
of 401. 101. Sd., which he very properly presented to
the parochial schools. The fact, however. was. the
account pupating to be so balanced was not given until
sixteen year. alter the appearance of this item. Tittle
was another transaction Which-he (Mr. Hobhmtse) tem.
'jived as highly penal. It appeared that in the watch
account a gratuity of 1301. per annum bad been given.
for many years to Mt. Frederick Booth. the vestry desk.
This sum had. by' lying in the hands of the vesery._ in-
.cteased to 41111 10.. and nowthe principal and interest'
amounted to 55811. In the sam.e accounts it epoepred
that the same Mr. Booth received.annually about Vol.
for law expenses. The nest item was scarcely creitilte,
'bet may' be seen by any Gentleman who thnuld take the'
trouble of examining..the bobk,.. It was en item, rieted
Feb. 5. 1813..0f 61. -or the expense of a P. tition aeitinst
the Catholics. H • had no objection to the Select Vestry
pesetionina against the Catliceies, biit he thought jt wery,
improper that ti!ey .should charge tee Petition upoo a
par Val.the majority of whom inhabitants had sent to
Par-
liament two representatives favourable to Roman Catho-
lic Emancipation. • This'conduct of the Select Truro
of St: Martin's the .Non. Member designated under the
name of atrocity. He now proceeded to other emisi-
derati ns. It had been said that the memo; rf of the
Select Vestries received no compensation for their ser-
vice?. ; but if they receivra no direct compensation them-
selves they, had the power of procuring it foe those whom,
they employed, and of obtaining influence over trades-
men 'who may expect to obtain orders lroniti.e
They had even gone so far.' as to take mom them to at-
tempt at the.notoination of Members of Parliament. In
the books of September 19, 1806. these •appemed a
memorandum that the board then sitting had been,con-
gene& in compliance with the tequest orthe then'Earl
Percyoina Duke i.f Northumberland. The N - r —I I.
had expressed a great desire to pay his-respect'. to the-
Veiny before he presented himself a eaadidtte for the
representation of Westminster. -and the board resolved
that he waes !toy fit and proper person to represeiAthe
city in Parliament. • Tnis coarse he (Mr. Hobisonte)
considered very imploper. It Was not. bovievet..
without a 'parallel, as Mr. Paul had gnu, to the :Se-
lect Vestry in the 'acne manner; hot they agreed. 'in'
hi, case, that he was not al fit person to -tepressoc•the,
city of Westmitister—(Hear)... It was titre that the
Salim Vestries rendered accounts of their teceipte and
ispenditurec but "they Were hide calculated to afford
satisi.ction, and still less was there any to be had iron..
Magotraits who were themselves suen.beis of the
SeltectVestr 7, and who had; in fact, on teem id occasions,
gnashed appeals Which had been presented on the sob-
jec.t. .He should not mention names in conjunction with,
the statement which he was about to make. •but be
believed that theY•weull. come .nut some d. y or other.
There was a Magistrate who was 6/it'd of siogis.g. and,.
whowlways.sung the first sods sal ec !hater at.the
vitae; of the. Select Vestei,atothtfitiZ often guatheetthe
appeals of the parish ionet s ipaiast, the expenditure &ilia
Select Teary. Sir Richard:Bet nicand Mr. Halls' had
treated the complaints of the par ithiciners in a way which
was not very becoming.- lh the parishes where the Se:
lect Vestries existed there 'listed greardiscootent, ssirils[,
reverse was the case in regard to that. which were
uodtr a popular systenr.of election. • It was also a fact, '
showing the advantages of populai tepresentstionetbi
in she parish of St. Lute, Chelsea, where the Yettey'r
bad been from select made popular, the :awl- had been..
reduced from four shillings and sixpence to tv4-e541
lingo and seven-pence in the pound. In those parishes
in which the Select Vestry system was in uneratioo VIM*
of Sc. Mary•le•Bow; St. Giles. Holborn; St. George,
Bloomsbory.r.Ond St. Andrew, Holborn, for exassiples
the greatest possible dissatisfaction and ferteenilie:
vatted. ' He knew very well that 'it was pretty -11(Pe!.
rally said, that if that system were altered, andthet tett
• washed to the elective pinciple, popular tumult
would be the necessary result. and that, in point of fact,
popular tomtits bad taken place in parishes so situated.
Those tumults and dissatisfactions bed. however, pines
in the parishes referred to, because the true principle of
popular &cotton had been depaned from ; but, in fact,
to thaw pari-bes, after some , loud.. speeches %tete pro
ipounced. the election of Churchwardenstoor place. /old.
every thing ended satisfactorily. Tie elective principle.
was not, therefore, so objectionable at it had been repot-
vented; et was lactose, Tee* g.. teed in several that
had passed that House, and' were in progtesslo!thg.
other House of Parliament, and amongst others to tie
Covent Garden Bill, in which pirish.(St. Paul)anmpen
Vestry was held according to .usage. The betsefitial
effect of scrutiny. *upon the expenditure was !?no
sttongly exemplified in the parish' of St. Mar/ Lisa;
bonito. where the difference or expenditure beitetia;
the years 1827 and 1828, in which the .different sass,
toms prevailed, the espenditore the year 1828. being
less than that of 1827 by- no less a .sum .-than
141,0001. To show the elect -of the two .prineipki
on rates, he begged leave to refer to the case or the
parish of Walcot, in the city' of. Bath, which Contained
b 7,000 inhabitants, and in which, under the sy stein
of oversee's, the average
_rate (of• three years. 'enel
tug in 1822) had been 7.9421. and the expense Of
each pauper 91. 4s. 2i. but; under 'the operant*.
the Act of the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite
(Mr. Sturges Bourne), the annual average tate wail
only 4,0901. and each pauper cost only. 51.165. 10d: Al.
that parish, moreover, the utmost harmony prevailaik
Annual elections took place, the Minister being on thew
occasions generally in the chair. The House would
find, on comparing those results with what occurred he
Pancras parish, a -very great difference. ' Itt-the.latteef.
under the head of pools' rates, he' found a charge sof
30,6991. with only seven hundred and seventy•khr*e.
poor to maintain at an expense 0t,8,6211.the testa the
gross sum being expended on miscellaneous:objeetet'
If the Walcot palish system were applied 'to the ne-
teal expenditure for the poor in Pancras pariih,,s(the
sum being 1011 L) it would be found capcble' of
supporting not only 773 persons; but 2,708. The
would. therefore, see, that even without going the whole
length of altering the system, much good might result
from a gessideration of the question, with , •
even a partial change. Honourable Members woad.
sea that the change was not intended to be estinded
the canary at latges-but'astrely to the parishes of :the

metre polls. Local reform would be lieneScial act usiy
to the inhabitants but vi the Clergy thriesservess awl
of whom would be glad to see the question in
at rests f + in some cases they bad become. Obis, sinus
from the idea that they were favoetabl: to the &lett
Vestry spit. in. It bad been. original"(
.his iistentitas
to move tot- !eere Sri bring in a ' Ili l for rl4l put.
PO e of effecting such. a . refor4n7butsonn easionni...
she subject. he found it one of so much diffi.-.opy. ;:.
*Airing so many different interests and so much or local
detail. tbatbe thought it would be more revere.'
to
the House to move for the appointment of a yrilut
Committee to take the whole question fairly into con.
sieeration, and with a motion to that effect it was hit
ii.tention to conclude. Ahlr ugh it was probable he
Ai% ii, rot have brought over all Honourable Member,
to Ime opinion, hr. neves theless. could not suffer blowy
to believe that any Honourable Gentleman stolid iv
tempt to stop' the inquiry is Maine. He though
that, from the wavelet,' of the case, it was memo"
11. t soinethiag should be .. done—that• some measure
should be resorted to capable of test°, ing tiarquin"
in those pa.ishes in whiclr discontent prevailed so e.
•clustettly. at; present. Objections to universal I.2f,age
might be used; but as no Honoura'sle Gentleman isosij
Ben, that taxation and representation thouldgo'togs,
Aber, he did hope that those heal Roliaments wield
not be allowed to possess a pe.wer which the Pailias,,,,
,ef the empire had never exercised or assum.d. nu
Honeirrable Member concluded by movieg—o zu, 1
.','Select Vrintraittee be appointed to inquire into the germ
sat °potation and effect of the la as tinder which scut
Veatiies are appointed in England and Wales."
.......
Mr. Secretary. PEEL said it was not his intention to
offer opposi,ion to the motion of the Honourable Hess.
demos.. so fat as the proposed inquiry might be capable
of discovering irone means bt whsch.t4 check the mi..
management or •misakipliciitioii of loyal tunsh; bat he
begged, thallu thin acquiescing in the morionef the
Honourable Member,' lee might, not be understoud
to concur in, any ot.the charges -which the Honours.
ble Member had stated, and he (Nlr. Peel) Criaight
ton widely, age iist loc:11 Vestries, and still lestin the
argument if the Hon. usable Gentleman, that the fle.
lect Vesteia s of London and its 'vicinity ought to to
abotiihid. He (Mr; Nei) ilieuglit 'that local fund.,
like all other.public fiords, ought tar undergo isulhsiras
Bih; ; but he did riot agree with the Honorable Mew
be.. that so tar as the parishes of London trete cos.
aerned, the remedy Of existing evils .seas to be found
in parish elections. He thosislise on the contrary,•the
More protection would he round in the character (t
(ientlemen of respectability. and wealth,' rho rtioeti
undertake the cake. than it in their room were tiki.
toted persons chosen at in ttectien sellete everyman
who paid a local rate oas entitled to via% He biped
the Honourable Gentleman 'told bear in mind the
.recommendlition of the Committee over ehich his
R ght Honourable friend (Mr. Stbrges Bonnie) had
so ably. piesided. That Cominiitee having had evidence
before it. proving that universal tuft age andthe election
ii-aunttal. Overseers had produced great evil, teems
isiended a revisal of that system, that the gratuitorn
latticed of °me:seers should be dispensed with, that
.in their loom salaried Overseers should be appointed,
and that the affairs of perishes should be managed by
Select Vestries. Frans the adoption of that recqemen-
d,tion of the Committee be beieved great alivantages
had been. esperienceda Bo far as the Honourable
..M'ensbet's Motion, thetefore„Coniempletell the establish-
ment of checks upon local espeischtureeheacquieseed
'in'it, but.fie wished to.guard himself against the infens
encebf concurrence in all the, viewssal e Hoe. Mgmbst.
'soil moreparticul4f ly against theidea nice acquiesced
ii4fie :tegument that the principle of be Select, Vestry
;1..
systemlhoild be departed from, 'and that that of nisi.
vassal suffrage *Meld bit •substitsited for it. Uodoubtedly
itimight. happen that. some impiovemtnt might take
place by the -adoption of 'tile. ricannmendation of the
Hon: Menthe:l4 but. bg believed that the present system
furnished a more effectual check upon the abuse of lbcal
lipenditore,..bf committing its eontroul to men of
,
character, and 'affluente, than to such persons. as.would
atand.ai contest at general pariehial elections.
Mr:S. BOURNE said. it was unfortunate that alf the
-arguments against particular Select Vestries should be
found to apply to all, as these was no diciriction in their
'apPellition. The Select, Vastly Act. the 59tlt George
111. difeVed finiii that whirl previously 'listed in vs-
.iotts parts.' He was quite.sure that no objection would
Ilse made to inquire • into' any particular instance pf al-
ifited-tabude oaf the Select-Vestry system; but he begged
liinhaentlenien to beat iniirild that it would be impro-
OPMP ,'},take cue Kennel rule for the patishes of the me.
lopolisarid. gloat manufacturing towns,* and the country
pisi.he., AIL amitaly dissimilar were their situations,
wants. and ekcinedancess . .
sIidt:CCOLBORNEIose, not to oppose the motion
'if; lus'.Honnurable
.friend, but he was quite eobvinced
that the Select Vestries*Of
,osauyof the parishes referred'
si by•biai (Pancres'aniOritat others), could prove them.
selves not Sedge to the. sweeping charges of his Hier
fiend His Hun: Friend *impaled 'that all the mem-
" s of Select Vestties
.ought to be appointed, but
Ise(Sili. It. Colboritr) was. quite satisfied that it would
JouncC That the greatest difficulty eras sometiftiti ea-
-I;llsienced in persuading respectable persons to under-
take that verwatemblesoine rind cinemas. office. His
.flOrtourable ;Friend. had efinded to certain . alleged
eti,
W4ses=aparisi 'dinners, parish favoikitiew.and parish
4iiikatitoast.,lnat•in case of universal suffrege;Who would
..
hie the persontlikely to be elected ?k Notmen of respectable
','role- and ailliwoce, , bat 'the attorneys who might coat'
ii.iiiiie trio Mich practice, and the 'tradesman whom isnis:-'.
larience or pri4t if might 6e to iupply to the perish
the articles in which- he dealt, and in that way would .
the e‘f) be increa ed instead of There might
i4si cluse.forinquity in some parishes, but he thought
itiiard that others, not deserving it. should be included
ie.theisbloquy 'aught to be thrown on the whole system.
The, sell lay' not an the: system, but in- the watt of -
p.•• .
rOcier .applisatiork of in ..• •
.
• - :Mr. HUME Was ant' inclintd. to throw that blame on
persons which belonged to the system. Unless parishes
should have the potter to direct 1M investigation of their
expenditure, and to reputes thosembo ahoeld be lotted
to )m.l'OOBlE/properly, there could be. no good. re- 1
'Olt from Anfsystem whatever. He regretted to hear .
(Kt *iglu Honourable Gentlemen (Mr: S. Bourne) fay
that' she .system which had. 'so' well ascended in the
divant'.litoTitices was. 110 t. apPlicabli to the MOM.
palls« Was it intended to be said the the intelligent led
av'ell iiifinited inhabitants of laericirm were not capableaf:
Oink that.which'perionslesitqualified to judge and mot
tact done tv,ithAiebe6tial effect? There might (is theft.
Hun. C;,eatlailiailtutil observed) be an indispOsifielr "al
die part of eonreperions to performs parish dotreilV bat
that mfghc be tracerkto the elevation. of those per',"
dithouttheir colisehf. Hi was. of opinion that the In"
'4l"idnals to?.Wbsoll4. the management of . the finds• of a
parish was intrusted should ba moans elsiewd by these
Who paid thirtatire ; and that Ilstiaecooots of she parioh
expenditure might to bi.inlgrcasess 'edited by others
thin those with whosii the appointment to tasks the