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London, England, 1819-06-03 00:00:00

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le . .. , .141;91.-LVIHif HOUSE, ;N72, 1819 t TO BE SOLD BY PRIVATE CONTRACT, to .... .
it I,UEOUST9f DIRECTORS the UNITED • •By Mr. SCOTT. the Naval-Asylums
T ..„...
em":4Ne e "RC ILIATS V ENGlalair fradhei ir.:IEEDS and LIVERPOOL CANAL SHAICES. proposed, it should have had his sup
to tiic,E4ST-INDIES, do hereby give Notice, 4141 The eminent ,merits of Ahls seedbed Navigation are well saw an expoliditure of 99,0001. for the Military Asy-
That the QUARTERLY GENERAL COURT of the tlahl kareen.___ , dhialpf Xi° per Share NA* maims with the beg- lam passed over without any observation from the
linty, appointed to be held at this House on WEDNRI- :uficksl prospects of conpiderably increasing•
ittlY to Mr. Scott, Nevi Britige-street. Committee of Finance, he could not help charging
he 234 instant, is made Special, for the purpose di. =-....:.: ----, ..- - ... ——, -- —.--.—,---,-- that Committee with a great fault in having recom-
lie Proprietors, for their approbation, a , ' *PAM ZAMBNTA ny PROCEEDINGS. mended the abolition of the Naval Asylum—(Hear,
'f Directors of the Bth Aped last, grandee id • .• . •
hear.) He agreed with the suggestion that the State _ ,
'Nriow, Bart. G. C. D. a Pemba of Xi - , . . should not educate more sailors than were necessary
*ls therein stated. .. 1 , - 110tSE Or COXiicoVat iUNE 2. for our own service—bat it was ridiculous to aPpre-
.. &menus from the Court of
I by the By-Laws, Cep S. See. Wok -.that
heed
the knowledge of Frenchwould
an Account of the number of Attorniyi.practising at that Court.
.ye Proprietors at this Rouse. /AY on the table. ,sittlenon Pleas, presented
them with a disposition to abandon our service. As
JOSEPH D. 11171, &cretaele. 116.•001.entaar, from the Chamber of the City of London, long as he should find two or three useless offices,
,peronsed an Account of the Duties received on Wines.— even in the present Estimates, he should noeconsent
"1.1 HOUSE, June 2, 1819. on Abe table. to vote ale shilling in
.addition to the public bur-
'<MS of the UNITED sr WI LLIA M•LEMON presented a Petition from certain
,
Pc:loft in the County of Cornwall °ravine that no alteration thetL Jle then complained of the Lay Lords of the
• ENGLAND *radix: mot • '
•i ' - •the
take place in the Conveyancing. .111//I.—laud on table.Admiralty, and contended, that the Navy Board had
.v.
__,'
.._ . not attended to the recommendation tif the Cotn-
VII 9. LAMS brought is the Blli for facilitating the pro-
COVIIIT of the ceeillinp against the Warden of the Fleet daring Vacation.— mitten, that no vacancies should be filled up. He
-,, in Leaden- concluded by moving, that 200,00U1. should be, de- b:Ma lint time, and ordered for a second reading next Monday. .
at Eleven • lb. fitIKR9tSE presented a Petition front Queensferry
Me nu for reguladng Seco& Bufghs..—Beferred to the dueled from the grant proposed.
,firma- Lord COMPTON objected to the Amendment not"
last, Mr. ABERCROMBIE presented a Petition from certain brought forward on a subject which had already
_ Agents employed in the Insolvent Debtors' Court, against a
particular Clause in the Insolvent Debtors Act—Referred to
been so fully discussed, because it might appear in a
'te Communes. party light, and for the purpose of embarrassing the
blond BARRY gave notice, that on Tuesday next he should measures of Government. He should therefore de-
cor leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Law respecting dine giving it his support. He admitted, at the same
-rted Elections.
time, that the public had an unqoubaed right to de•
NKS postponed the consideration of the Petition on
' Election from to-morrow till Tuesday next. mand every possible retrenchment from his Majesty's
•of 'Mr. BENNETT, the House went Into a Ministers—(Hear, hear.)
- Publican Licences Bill. The Report was Mr.
S. DOUGLAS rejoiced that the forms of the
' to be taken into further consideration on•
House allowed Parham** to reconsider a vote for-
-4, that he held in his hand a Repre- merly given, and obtained by surprise, in consequence
cd from Ireland, expressive of the of a declaration made by a gallant Admiral, that the
-
-ned desirable to extend to that services of the Lay Lords of the Admiralty were
nourable Member's Bill, with
absolutely necessary. In consequence of the Report
no objection whatever to of the link Committee, the House had agreed to
1e Member. make a proper alteration in the system of our cur-
rency. It bore the most promising appearance, but
a Committee all agreed that it must be accompanied with a kind
'TON, of tax on the country, and a considerable degree of
,oposing difficulty and pressure. It was also known, that in
..o any order to carry this alteration into effect, the Right
dis- Honourable Gentleman opposite would propose new
'-I taxes at the beginning of the next week, and amongst
the rest (or the public were much misled on the sub- '
•t), one which the Right Honourable Gentleman
himself voluntarily abandoned as contrary to
'rare of the country. In such circumstances it
n important rifht, that which enabled the
•.onsicfer every possible retrenchment.— •
Lay Lords of the Admiralty, though
ling, should not be omitted. In
-xpenses of the late war had ex-
•-mer contests, ought the re-
nt peace exceed all former
hare, at the same time,
rt such reductions as
nrthens of the pee-
'4, teach it to bear
not be aceom-
nt to curtail'
•! gallant
-Cession
',her
.s
• \
~.

to be road for niy Eatiblishment, it should be for
the Naval,A.sylums Even had double the sum been
proposed, it *should have had his support. When he
saw an expoc(diture of 59,0001. for the Military Asy-
lum passed over without any observation from the
Committee afFinance, he could not help charging
that Committee with a great fault in having recom-
mended the abolition of the Naval Asylum—(Hear,
hear.) He agreed with the suggestion that the State
should not educate more sailors than were necessary
for our own service—but it was ridiculous to appre-
hend that the knowledge of French would inspire
them with a disposition to abandon our service. As
long as he shonld find two or three useless offices,
even in the present Estimates, he should not consent
to vote one shilling in addition to the public bur-
then:. Ile then complained of the Lay Lords of the.
Admiralty, and contended, that the Navy Board had
not attended to the recommendation of the Com-
mittee, that no vacancies should be filled up. He
cencluded by moving, that 200,0001. should be, de-
ducted limn the grant proposed.
Lord COMPTON objected to the Amendment note
brought forward on a subject which had already
been so fully discussed, because it might appear in a
party light, and for the purpose of embarrassing the
measures of Government. He should therefore de-
cline giving it his support. He admitted, at the same
time, that the public had an undoubted right to de•
Inland every possible retrenchment from his Majesty's
Ministers—(Hear, hear.)
Mr. S. DOLX;LAS rejoiced that the forms of the
House allowed Parliament to reconsider a vote for-
merly given, and obtained by surprise, in consequence
'of a declaration made by a gallant Admiral, that the
services of the Lay Lords of the Admiralty were
absolutely necessary. In consequence of the Report
of the Book Committee, the House had agreed to
make a proper alteration in the system of our cur-
rency. It bore the most promising appearance, but
all agreed that it must be accompanied with a kind
of tax on the country, and a considerable degree of
difficulty and pressure. It was also known, that in
order to carry this alteration into effect, the Right
Honourable Gentleman opposite would propose new
taxes at the beginning of the next v..eek, and amongst
the rest (or the public were much misled on the sub-
ject), one which the Right Honourable Gentleman
had himself voluntarily abandoned as contrary to
the welfare of the country. In such circumstances it
was a most important right, that which enabled the
House to reconsider *very possible retrenchment.—
The case of the Lay Lords of the Admiralty, though
comparatively trifling, should not be omitted. In
proportion as the expenses of the late war had ex-
ceeded those of all former contests, ought the re-
trenchmehts of
.the present peace exceed all former
retrenchments. • He was aware, at the same time,
that it was impossible to effect such reductions as
would matetiaßy diminish the burthens of the pee-
ple. All that could he done, was to teach it to bear
them with patience, and that could not be accom-
plished without shewing every disposition to curtail'
the public expenditure. He would ask the gallant
Admiral opposite, oil his reputation in his profession
and in society, to come forward and state whether
the presence of the Lay Lords of the Admiralty was
really necessary to the public service ? Could that
be imagined, when it was known that one of the
Honourable Baronets who filled those situations
had last year spent five months in Bedfordshire, and
the other as long a portion of time in Edinburgh ?
It was said that their continuance WAS sanctioned by
the Finance Committee. He hoped those Commit-
tees hal been sufficiently damned in the public opi-
nion to have lost all their influence. But that would
certainly be the case, when it was seen that they suf- •
fered the Lay Lords to remain, and recommended
the abolition of the Naval Asylum ; not because
that Establishment was useless or too expensive, but
because the country was in such a state of exhaustion,
as not to be deemed capable of maintaining the help-
less orphans bequeathed to her charity and her gra-
titude by her defenders!—( Hear.)—He and his friends
had been accused of calling for paltry savings; but what
were their propositions in comparison of the recom-
mendation of that packed Committee?—(Hear, hear.)
The Opposition objected to granting £lO,OOO, a year
to the Doke of York, and i:5,000 to the Lay Lords
of the Admiralty ; and why ? Because it wished to
apply those sums to the support of Establishments
like the Naval Asylum. For what purpose should
we keep up our Navy ? To fight the armies of the
Continent. When he was told that we must main-
tain a large standing army because other nations
maintained them, he recognized one of those maxims
issuinfroin the Continental schools, and adopted by
the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Depart-
ment to degrade our policy.
Sir G. COCK BURN conld not admit the fairness of
calling upon him as a private and public character,
to state whether the services of this or that individual
were of any value. He had no objection, however,
to stake his reputation as a public and private man,
z,n thedeclaration, that he did believe it abiolutely
necessary for the public service that the Board of
Admiralty should be .constituted as it now was. He
was positively of opinion, that if the Board was re-
duced, the public .service would be injured. With
respect to what had been said concerning a pretended
preference in favour of the military, it ought net to
be-forgotten, that soldiers, when discharged, had no
employment whatever; sailors, on the contrary, im-
mediately entered into the merchant service. As a
proof of this, the Admiralty had much difficulty in
procuring the number of sailors recuisite to mar. the
ships kept on active service. During the war, tne
merchant vessels had been worked by fir eigners, who
bad,.naui. been discharged, and British seamen em-
ployea is their stead.
Mr. If: DOUGLAS had not enquired whether the
Navy _ftard, as at present constituted, was useful to
the public service. but whether the g.illant Admiral
could state that the two Lay Lords were absolutely

Mr. CALCRAFT complained of the recommenda-
don of the Finance Committee to put down the
Naval Asylum, whilst the Military Asylum was al-
lowed to subsist, and even to pass unnoticed. He
feared that the suggestion had been adopted by his
Majesty's Ministers, for when the Navy was con-
cerned they were economical enough. If there were
any Estimates, the amount of which he felt disposed
to increase, it was those ler the Navy. He did not
consider the number of men voted for that service
sufficient—it was in all 20,000 ; but of these only
14,000 were sailors. The rest were marines. In for-
mer times the votes for the two services had been co-
extensive—but at present all proportions were disre-
garded, and we had an Army of 100,000 men, with
a Navy of only 20,000! He wished to know whether
it 'was determined to adopt a new system altogether,
and to abandon what used to be called "The Wooden
Walls of Old England ?" He reproved the continu-
ance of the Lay Lords of the Admiralty, at a time
when it was necessary to diminish the burthens of
the people. He could not conceive the House would
vote any seertax till sufficient reductions had been
made in the public expenditure—and he should never
.Free to grant one shilling till that enormous sum of
£11,000,000 at the head of the Finance account, had
been thoroughly sifted. Much economy might take
place in the collection of the Revenue. He under-
stood that the Board of Excise had proposed to Go-
vernment to collect the Customs at a very reduced
rate. The Excise Duties were now collected at the
rate of £5 19s. 6d. per cent. and those of the Cus-
toms at El 1 19s. sd. per cent. A saving to the
amount of nearly one-half would therefore be effected
if the proposal of the Excise was accepted. But in
Ireland it was still worse. Thp Customs were now
collected in that country at the enormous rate of
£2l 181. per cent. He trusted that those matters
would be duly investigated, and that the easy and
immense saving thus held forth, would not be lost to
the country. To the ;resent grant he should not
object, any more than to the Estimates themselves.
Sir G. WARRENDER explained, that far from
having put down the Naval Asylum, the Resolution
now in the Chairman's hands included a sum of
£14,000 for that Establishment. The Committee of
Finance had, it was true, recommended its abolition,
and .Ministers might take into future consideration
die propriety of diminishing its expense—but it was
their intention to maintain the Establishment itself.—
The Honourable Gentleman had complained that a
larger naval force had not been proposed, but the
present was considered fully equal to the wants of
the country. Let it not be imagined that our Naval
Establishment was in a state of decay. It was placed
on such a footing, that whenever the occasion might
require, our Navy could be immediately restored to
a state of rigour and activity A nasal armament
could always be brought forward with diOre,rapi:
dity than a military one. It must also be.COnsidered
that the fleets of all other nations iiiittAsao
hied during the course of the Wsylieto
fore, was required on OUT part. • 1304.-Tat 01*a*,
that the Orit,ls:lklevitliad aeverlsepOn *tick:CP:ate,
to lee, immediately restored to all .rts ISharztnd
iti•it, ?MOIL Is the condurtitfimtuces
could any throe more baraqtrire •♦ .;
her M. W. RIDLEY agreed,. thatVpsOltey.itight