Star.
London, England, 1818-02-07 00:00:00

(Sir M. W. Ridley), bad to tem**, that
Committee hid been chosen by ballot it had
been the practice of the House to alter the list
Honoitrabk Member rising and saying for
that he -Ives not there. For•more reasons than
name of the Noble Lord (Lord G. Caven-

Ls a naree that, it appeared to. him' , most de-

co have on the Comm—ittee ; but if he should
lately be absent, he did not know that after
:et it was for them to nominate another Ho-
Member in his place. As to the objection
been urged against him (Lord Castlereagh)
the Committee, because he was one of his
's Ministers, the disqualification was so broad,
tdmitted at all, he did not know that he could
•ed to take any further part in the proceed-

the present Session. -
111OUGHAM contended, that if the course
he Noble Lord judged to be the proper one
npred, it might very well so happen that 20
should be balloted, and not one of the 20 per-
. capable of attending to the business of a
me. They might be beyond seas, or, from
ircumstances, physically incapable of doing
Ity. In such a case would the House be tied

the ballot from naming an efficient Commit-
The House, in such a case, would help itself
,uld. To get out of the difficulty it would
!course to nomination ; or if this were forbid-

their orders, they would determine upon
second ballot. The present case went not
extent of that which he had imagined, but be-
ris Noble Friend, the Member for Derby, who
_ _

be a most valuable Member of the Committee,

lot be present, ought they to have nobody in
im ? Sir Arthur Piggot, it was known, had
to attend the Committee last year, and no

he would decline doing so this. Here then
two Members lost to the Committee, and he
of know but he might name an Honourable
of his near him as a third. If such were the
to business of the Committee would be almost

the parties themselves who wanted the pretec-
a Bill of Indemnity. It would be left to the
Ley and Solicitor-General, and to the Noble
and two other Cabinet Ministers and their
who, for aught he knew, might be about to
Cabinet Ministers. But the Noble Lord had
he were disqualified from sitting on the Com.
because be was a Member of the Government,
lit, with equal reason, be held to be disquali-

din taking a part in the proceedings of that
It was not so. In that House his statements
)e answered—might be contradicted and re-
Very different was the case when he went
Secret Committee, and got, as it were, behind
nits, and behind the backs of the Evanses and
ifs, who were now bringing their actions to
whether they should do so, or whether the
, shoulp be torn to pieces, and the expenses of
,roceedings, as far as they had yet gone, thrown
complaining party? He must therefore re-
nd that the vacancies which had been pointed
inuld be filled up by nomination, which he
,the preferable course, or by ballot.
SPEAKER.—May I be pardoned if I ask
luestion is at present before the House ?
. CASTLEREAGH said his motion was, that
=mime should meet to-marrow morning in
poker's Chamber. _ _ •

WILBERPORCE defended the mode of chaos-
;ommittee by ballot. Lists, it was true, were
M on the one side, as they had formerly been

other. Those, however, who had these lists,
:hange the names of any Members they ob-
o, for those whom they 'considered more eli-
He had done this on various occasions. This
with the mutual understanding which existed
subject, rave the Member an opportunity of
any individual he might be pleased toname,
the knowledge of any other human being.
. it had always appeared necessary that a mu-
iderstanding was necessary. Without this he
make out a list of names, which though very
might not occur to any one else, andrin that
he should be left unsupported, his power of
might be lost. On this occasion he thought
able that the Committee should be in a great
re fonve,i of persons whose opinions did not
y coincide with those of Ministers, and for
persons, he for one had been desirous of giving
te.

SPEAKER stated the practice of erasing one
from a Commitsec that had been ballotted for
ike room for another, did not appear, from the
tals of the House, to have been customary. To
is they must jump over a variety of their orders,
louse having decided that the Committee should
nen by ballot. He had not been able to trace
stance of one Member being substituted for
where some disqualification had not been
In no case had it been done where a Mem-
ibsented himself from a ballotted Committee
~h disinclination to attend.
CALCRAFT thought, that without contra-
ig the orders of the House, it might be regular
up the places of the persons who it was suppo-
ntld not attend. He wished to say a word or
ith regard to the appointment of a Committee
dot. On that method he could safely say, that
.luence of Ministers by means of it was greaser
by any other mode. He had himself a
neer upon the appointment of Committees by
method. He did not suppose there was any
secret in what he was saying, but if there was
xld not proceed. (Criesif no, no.) He had
been sworn when he was a scrutineer, (hear, hear,
a laugh.l There were, upon that occasion, 103
ins Tito had put lists into the glass, and amongst
' there were 97 written in the same hand. Whose
it was, or whence the lists came, he would not
:me to offer a conjecture, nor would he say any
farther on that point, though he had some in-
tion on the subject ; but the fact was, that there
ail the same names in those lists, and all written
'same hand. And if his Hon. Friend had con-
id for a moment, he was persuaded he would
inferred, that the quarter whence they came was
ery doubtful He thought some steps might
:nly be taken to supply the places of those
.r; who would not attend, though he should be
ist man to propose any Member in place of his
• Friend ; for he thought he was one of the best
'ls in that House to become a Member of such a

WILBERFORCE explained. If any Mein.

lber, who had a list given him, thought any one was
not as fit person for such a Committee, he might have
scratched out the names, without its being even sus-
pected who made the alteration.
Mr. CANNING should not say any thing about
the propriety of substituting names in a particular
way, after what had fallen from the chair; bet if
it were necessary to make any alteration it all in the
Committee, there was one thing which he would re-
commend. He apprehended that the House pos-
sessed a power of compelling the attendance of its
own Members, and he should object to any other
proceeding till that had been attempted.
Sir W. BURROUGHS said a few words upon the
substitution of one Member for another, in connec-
tion with the opinion given from the Chair.
The SPEAKER stated, that in the case to which
he had more particularly alluded, where a Member
had been declared to be disqualified, the question,
came to a vote, and it was finally determined that
he was qualified. He would not have been allowed
to sit in the Committee had he been declared dis-
qualified ; but it was the final decision of the House
that he was qualified..
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS believed that the
real object of the Committee was to lay the founda-
tion for a Bill of Indemnity, and he could not doubt
that it would be the sense of the House that there
was a personal disqualification against the Noble
Lord, being a person supposed incapable of judging
of his own personal acts, or against his own personal
conduct. The House was, in his opinion, competent
to review their ballot, and to settle any thing of a
Idoubtful or inconvenient nature that might arise upon
it. He did not know whether some of the Orders of
the House might be passed over, of jumped over, he
believed that WAS the phrase ; but hi hoped he might
be allowed to remind them, that the Ordef was—
" that this Committee shall consist of 21 Members."
tie put the case, if some of the 21 could not attend,
would not the vote of the House be defeated? When
Sir Arthur Piggott could not attend, on account of
the state of his health and of his professional avoca-
tions, would not the vote of the House be defeated ?
The House would -have, of necessity, to supply the
place of such Members ; and what had been done by
the House last Session upon a similar Committee?
Why, a member was added to the original number.
—He had it before him, among the vot'es of the
House, that the present Solicitor-General had been
added to a Committee appointed by ballot. With
respect to the power of the House, he would only
say, that he believed they could review their own
Orders ; and if some Members were to be absent
from the Committee, it would not be a Committee
of 21, as ordered. He wondered whether Gentle-
men on the other side happened to know that the
Noble Lord, who had been stated to be at a distance
from home, was in Lancashire when the ballot was
proceeding. He thought that it would be as well if
the Committee would postpone their meeting till the
attendance of Lord George Cavendish could be pro-
cured. But if they did not wait till he could be pre-
sent, he trusted that the House would remedy so very
great an abuse of the mode of election by ballot.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY begged to assure the House
that the absence of Lord George Cavendish was by
no means voluntary. It was certainly not his own
wish, but a real necessity that compelled his absence
on that very important occasion.
The question, that the Committee should meet-to-
morrow, was then carried, as were several others re-
lative to the business of the Committee : among
which were, that seven should be a quorum, and that
all secret papers should be referred to the Committee,
containing information relative to the State of the
Country.
Mr. BROGDEN moved, that there should be laid
before the House, an account of the number of sur-
charges on account of the Assessed Taxes, from the
sth of February, 1817, to the sth .of February, 1818,
inclusive ; and also for the numbers of appeals for
the same period.—Ordered.
Mr. CURWEN moved for various Accounts of outstanding
Exchequer Bills, from the 6th of January, 1817, to the same
period in the present year, with the amount of those paid within
the said year, Ste.—Ordered.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the Conunitsee of Supply be postponed till Monday.--Agreed to.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that
the House do adjourn till Monday.—Agreed to.

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