Star.
London, England, 1816-04-26 00:00:00

attua -Expense of 1316

Excels £4,512,349
It required that a strong case should '-‘e made out to
account for this increase. It had always been the
praCtice of the country not only to husband its re-
sources is time of peace, but to redece at once the
military force to the lowest peace establishment
v.: ich it was, thought fit to maintain. As.an ex
imele cf this, he should cite the force which had
b-eli voted atter the Peace of Paris. It had r,ever
been thought necessary in time of peace to maintain
a force suilicient to repel a formidable invasion, but
merely sudden attacks or domestic insurrection,
Neither insurrection nor invasion mid we now to fear;
and though he did not think the peace which had
beri conclueed, or the arrangements made, likely to
secure the permamut peace of Europe, yet he did not
• &ink that in the present-or tl-e next year we had much
danger to apre!ietid ; it. was therefore imperatively
ernessary to husband our resources at the present
time, that we might he prepared fur the future. In
looking at the constitutional view of the question he
should remark, that in the comparisons which had
be.n made between the present and former peace
establishments the effective force only of the present
establisllnlcat had been taken into account, while the
whole inie.ber of troops voted on former occasions
Lad beau set against them. This made the difference
appear loss sulking than it really was, for the whole
r.umber of troops to be kept in Great Britain .was
32,090, out of ,vhich there would be always an effec-
tive force of 28,000 ready to take the field. In 179'2,
the whole force in Great Britain WAS 15.919 ; it was
now 39,099 men. In the Old Colonies, the ft; rce was
in 179% 16,848 ; it was now 27,000. In Ireland it
wa; then 16,000 ; now it was '23,990. This made,
• iu the *former petiod, a total of 48,767, and at pre.
sec 87,000. Added to this, near 2.5,000 for the
lecw CoLnies, made a total of 111,756, which was
the sum actua voted this year, exclusive of the
:4:4141es in rtanllcey and Lydia. For what purpose this

Force was to be kept up it was hard to 'al' It WI
been said that it could mot be for purposes inimical
to the Constitution. It was not: his business to com-
pliment any body of men, but to perform his duty to
the people—(Hear)--and consistently with that duty,
he could rot entrust any Prince or body of Ministers,
with so large a military force. He could not consci-
entiously say that a force of 92,000 men could be per-
manently kept on foot in this islaud • wiloutulanger
to the Constitution. (Hear.) He concluded by re-
peating, that the House would not do its duty if they
were satisfied with general *professions of economy,
for, even if the policy of low establishments had
not been that which had been uniformly pursued in
fotmer times, this would be the moment to adopt it.
Lord PALMERS PON said, he should eertiainly '
not oppose the motion on the ground of precedent,
as had been anticipated, because, under the present
circumstances of the country, it was open to any
Member to bring forward any motion on the subject
of the public expenditure, which he might conceive
the exigency of the State to requiret-the shou d
l op.
pose it, however, because the Rinse, by :treeing to
it, would teseind in effect that vote which they had,
Alter so vetch serieus and attentive deliberation.,
adopted. It Was only on the resent year the met
ceiuld have any effect. If it was intended that
the motion should refer to the next year, it was pre.
ntetere, as it gave directions for the conduct of Par-
liement at a time of tits- exigencies of which we could
not yet forma judgmeet. The Henourable Getele-
triaa (Me. Gant) had-not made a fair statement,
when he iesd 111,1 that no reducti n could be made
in the nest year v.hich might uot have been made at
present. cause there was at least a 'lake: which
was required to wind np the expenses of the war,
which would necessarily be reduced. Neither could
it be stated, that the establihment kept up in Great
Britain was 3.2,000 men, which the Honoureble Mem-
ber had by some means conjured up. The whole
establishment in Great Britain leas '25.0(X)
The low peace establishments in former times had
been the cause of our military faileres at the begin-
ning of the war, and, by ree enter consequence, of
our financial embarrassment. He could not conceive
that these establishments could lieve any injurious
effect on the industry and energy of the country,
which the blessings of its constittrion would always
pieserve to its people. It did not i,ecome Gentlemen
on the opposite side of the House to reproach Minis.
tA*s with the difference between the expenditure and
the income of the cour.:ry, l:ecanse it wars by their
opposition that the 'l',l“-s which had been proposed
to meet the espen;l:-.ore ii id been rejected. Sit.re the
rriod when the sense of P.irliasnent had obliged
Cion to charge their liee of cereiuct, no one could
deny that the Ministers le..d shown the most sincere
.lesire to reduce the expenditure. I.7nlcs-, it was to be
be supposed that the Parliament world be less y:gi.
lant next year, he saw no g:oend for the motion
but as he d:d not wish to negative the ascertion that
the strictest economy was desiiable, he sheuld move
the other orders of the day.
Mr. J. I'. GR ANT explained that Coe force voted ,
if ninety thousand men did not include tAcers
wheinast in former votes, eliscers were ircleded.
Lei-1 Peterieteros vied -iie-d.
Mr. MACDONALD •aid it was never toe late to :
perforrn a duty which the public exigencies required,
i
and never superflu- T. to . roecile C'r acts the Le-
gislature a itli the ~i..lles iind wants of the
To the address itself no ebi:lctien had vet been stated.
It was tenteerete, &Ana el, and leyal. kit it bad
anoth-r charac•t•ii:ktic, it v.-3% truly It
%IS British in its priticii le, int it was justin its
policy, fur it was straight f ,rw ird—in its laiiguag,..,
for it was true. I), had been vresented to (net
H,IISO from all quartet • , complaining ul a wanton
tspenditure and e tee rahie jitstresl. Sli•or1.1 C e
Th:one :Ilene rime II tr,ne.rat e t t:ege
The Plince from wailm true, !red excluded I
rever be popular, c
R •er be just. Now,
cnui~iwe could not suppose, re-.- ou oyal Highness'sl
wen language, he could t,ae be.ll acquainted with •
the real stater of the conker). He could not have!
mistaken stagnated en:lie:tree end -suspended agri-
culture, for the highest pri,spe, tty. *lltis Was there-
fore an additional ground for the Address, that h.
Royal Highness and his Avis. rs meit have been
in profound ignorance of the r: ell seite of the i
country. An attempt had been made to raise a
false alarm for their consisteucy, for no one who
hid heard it read could have felt that alarm. The I
Address did not propose -large• prospective benefits,
from petty retrospective teprouf. It stated the large
amount of military establishments with au utiavoi.±-
able feeling of regret. It e.Tressed a hope that in the!
ensuing year means would be taken to effect greet;
reductions, and protested against this innovation
being made a precedent for the future. If there
was any one who was enamoured of thesteestablish-
meets in the abstract, and for their own 'sake he might
oppose the Address, hut in his humble opinion un
other. If any man looked at the reductions which
had been made it would be evident that they were
effected from carve:hence, net Won convietion-i-that
they were the asininsurn at retrenchment which would
avert the censure which impended on the head of
Ministers. It was not till the Noble Lord (Castle-
reagh) had been awakened somewhat rudely from his
golden dream of prosperity, by el the ignorant impa-
tience" of the people, when he began to hear censure
from those mouths from which praise and panegyric
had flowed before, that he had consented to make
any reductions in the enormous estimates which had
been framed. The further, reductions proposed by
the Noble Lord an his colleagues vete of the same
waspicieus origin, and liable to the same charge of
insincerity. When the House recollettid the indecent
attempts made to burry the proposed establish.
ments through their respective stages in one night,
which had been solely prevented by the vigilaneel
of his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Tierney);
they would at once see that the confluet of Ministers
arose from no principle of attachment.to the interests
of the nation. Ascurious sort of argument had been
adopted by the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) in defence
of this extravagant military system, that much mis-
chief had arisen to the country from our military es-
tablishments being too much reduced in time of
peace. To justify, therefore, this unconstitutional
establishment, the Noble Lord had termed the pre-
sent year Gf an intermediate state," or in other words,
a state of neither peace nor war. He (Mr. Macdo-
nald) thought if the present year might be so charac-
terized, there was no period whatever when tie euun-

trfthiglit be said to be in a state of peace- . It‘was
.an argument which every Ministae might adopt for
Testifying his measures, and which would effectually
debilitate the energies of the country, by perpetua-
' tine the means of mischief. The Chancellor of the
.
Exchequer had observed, since the abolition of the
Property Tax, thlt the finance of the country was
rather in a critical state—(rime, hear.) Much as he
respected the private virtues of that Right Hon. Gent.
he was astonished on what principle he could possi-
bly agree to the wild extravagant propositions of the
Noble Lord, his colleague, if he really thought the
finance of the couno-y so critical—(Hear, hear ) Did
he forget the baneful consequences which had repea.
jtedly followed a critical state of finance, and which
in a recent instance had deluged a neighbouring
l conntry with torrents of blood ? Did he tlenk there
was any thing paoiceler in the constitution of this
country, or in the feelings of the people, to prevent a
similar occurrence here? Were we to be exempted
by some magical charin or another from sudden at-
tack in consequence of a deranged finance ? But al,
lowing the Right Hon. gentleman to be sincere is
his opinion re-peciine the crisis of fieence, how did
he propose to relieve that ? Why, by tax Minn, tin-
iest, oppressive, intolerahfe taxatien—(llear, hear.)
The resolt he found was net favourable to his vie ~.
Ile heel blown A loilihle, and lei would fain f:yret.de
the lleuse to think it was a ball of gold—(hear,
hear, hear.) Return to cconnmy was a measure not
mei. ly iedispensitile in the liresi-nt state of the cram-
ti y--it w.ts necessary to i:s vary e‘i•tence. We heil
been so long preeressive in the r.ireer of profusion,
that mighty stems not lerig, r staitled the conntry.
SJnii were now con,idered only as p dateable iii prn-
porti n to their m igiiitti•io. In 1 780, Mr. Bruce
raise) Lis vciee a eeinst an r::?...n,?itttre of inoreim
iriiiiiiets ; is 17R i4r. Pitt congratulated the coun-
t/ y 'het its revenue ef sixteen millions had exceeded
the expenditure, which leo: been only fifteen wiiiions
and a hall. Yet note, in a time of peace—a pence
extolled by the No'ele Lord as one of the mme gin-
ti ius and honourable erer acinircd by this country,
we were called to sit down mit': as expenditure et
thirty millions—(::ear, hear.) On such a tepic he
was unwilling to say more—it ?poke for itself. To
wie,trbow:ver, W.,:3 this opposition en the p in ut Mi-
-1 'rivers to the Address owinl ? It WAS (weber more
Inor less titan fror-. their reluctance to %bee; thir Sl-
-1 vereign how muc't they I-ad loth ieel the cr,-.-ff:i' e::ce
lof a British pilhlic —(ilear.) Th.: )lobh: 1,. rd had
i now snrely h:•ar.l eroor,ll to convilce hill that Ile:"
days of bitr.l implicit confidence woe past. He
I might rati.i.r w• it,fer how public confidence hid so
I I,n.ig surviv,zal. lid he expect e.ontidenra. to he pl.iced
in me.t:ori4; i,y cchi:li lie &claret! h' 'x old eit'aer
stand 0: i ill, Sot to which fit it'.ler stan;.fing nor filling,
hut we :iv :loci st.ig:,cting, he still v.ished to ciine..,
1 (Iltar, aril a :.0 •i.) Dili he expect confidence to be'
!placed in vw!asure, %%Lich he to-day extolled as essen-
tial to the Cf)itstituti( n, and to-morrow reprobated as.
pregnant with the west dangercue consecpiences to
1 the c iblic interest.. ? Were his nielsurLs to ht. truVed
I to, which at elle time wcra ehtti.ct,:rized by pr:,fes-
i
i skins of ceorom7, at :m0d...7 time were cvt,le.n-ly
i •
founded no pro .!i:;.: ity, and a chi dish attachment to
! military parade ? 1.,.d Ire suppose the House could
possibly terget.his ereplcfying rion-y without the con- ,
1
trottl or sa,ict:,,n of I•arliameot ? Ycs, tlic! N0h1,..'
Lord rr,:rin. well —ill for the co,ifidence of the enbite I
lit it coold I,‘r it Turn-neat be supposed' they I:ad be-
' come se irrational as to triot iii such visiat.it y pro-
; ject:•—(Mar.) lie (Mr. Macdonald) Gout.; not ;or
!it 1110111'211t Stipp' *V the linage o: Commons sn list re,
1 every it c'inif of duty as to abandon the laveur,bli.,
I opport;it i:y ewe presented to them of shewing them-.
I selves :r.t.;rated by disheeiested motives. Hoe; keg.
i tie wor!d ask, would ti:ey defer the discharge of sech_
an important duty ? Despotism and Military Go-
vernments were now the order of the day, ieet pro-
I mises made to s.,•tijccts were either po,tpened or ler-
, gottim. ti dynasty maintained on its throne b,* force
of arms had driven into gloomy exile men in whose'
1 breasts; the ardour of intrituic leering burned in no
small degree. Was dine nothing in t!,iii country to
fortify at present ? It WA:. wt-11 known that war per-
' verted the haLits of a people—that I opine and blood.
shed were ciatiegnence.s of minor importance, con-
, trasted vii-li the ravages it made in titiderntnAng li-
berty, and abolishing the free-born sacred rigi,; , of a
•
I nation. Atnid those splendid achierements which
adorned our annals, it MIS paint ul to notice the series
of suspensi:ms or violations of the Constituti, n which
I had taken place. He would not tire the House with
the reo-Otion of these, ewer^ of the unpleasant Lernia-
i,... . . . . ~.
lions which such a disclosure must excite : he weele
only refer to the dismal pages of taxation as a melan-
choly prod' of this. . bight as achievements might
appear, they aloce became valuable in propoi ..iiiti to
1 the secuti:y they ago-ded to the civil rights of the
country In the midst of war, rat inc might Ve car-
ried on w:th simie degree of :instill:titian, bat it was
the peculiar province of peace to heal, to correct, to
renovate —(yicar, hear, hear.) Great Britain looked
in time of peace to the Patriot and the Minisor *rn-
playine the undivided energies of his great wind to
consolidate the adventeges of peace.
Lord NUGENT supported the Address, and.re-
peated, his former argonients against the proposed
numerous military establishment.
Mr. CURWEN was persuaded that the Noble
Lord would not have proposed such a Military es-
tablishment as he had done, except with a persuasion
that he should be able to carry the Income tax.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER 1
opposed the Address, which, he said, must either go
to call for an entire revocation of the measures
already adopted by the house, or as a recommenda-
tion relative to the Establishments for next /car ; on
both these grounds he would oppose the Address.
Colors,' PALMED. supported the Address, and
particularly that part of it which complained- of a
large standing army as being unconttitutionel. He
was astonished to see many Honourable Gentlemen,
yeti° had voted against the Income Tax, vote with
Ministers for the military establishment to the fullest
extent to which they had proposed it.
Mr. J. SMITH contended, that Miuisters, from
some delusion or other, were not treating this coun-
try as it ought to he. The cry for economy had
spread from one end of the country to another ; and it
was the duty of the Hbuse to comply with the wishes
of their constituents.
The House then divided. For the Motion, 102;
Against it, 1.513 ; Majority, 56. •
Lord C4S'CLEREAGH rose to move Ito have

.. . .
up:acmcoern.tortAhlaeithclier,:,;wyc.on:en,;ed.
to bring in a BM in continue the Alien Act
the Urn, provisons as after the peace of Amiens
Mr. HORNER contended that there coal(' be
no dryad of the machin.tti,ns of foreigners to et
imge the dis4ffected i;t this count' y. The a,
practice of the con.t.titotion gave no ..bsttuctivn
entry of foreinners into This country. •
nt::::
toonrinye d
Mr. BAT/ 111 ItST said a set of tireigners, .
knew that their re:lstiieghriitiet e....elitetf.r:ee,reeis.iiisie, tsotsnoicvdemrtzt:riri.snutuslerd.
fthoreitrl7bßnoillci(%,‘u.3:s'i.:lt'jeecntasbtlt%:rn.:(l on: ot this cowl,
He had known forkignets, who !'.ttl carne ;et
ctinitunctoruynftorrypoii::.etl7;ecrornpt;ens7,e,ii:titlion
ni
4),
~,ign
Mit
Mr. H. ADDINGTON s tii he teas not aw
, any Alien being sent out of tite• kingdom on
Pre nr a ftiren t: tti,,ter.
I present
lion tg
11Pt
l: INC. rei;e:ited his 3SW, tin,.
Leave was then giv..:s to bring in the Bill.