Star.
London, England, 1828-07-17 00:00:00

THURSDAY EVENING.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

--r-•

HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 16.
The Disembodied Wilda Bill, and the Insolvent Debtors (India)
Bill, were severally read a third time and passed.
The Cinque Ports BUJ, and the Filets Bill were severally read a
second time. The Cinque Ports Bill was ordered to be committed
to.userrow.

The Improvement of Justice (India) Bill, the Bombay Marine
Bill, the Beer Bill, the Cities and Towns (Ireland) Bill, severally
passed through Committees.

11111111A11 !LIAM
The Earl of DARNLEY, before their Lordships proceeded to
the Order of the Day, begged to offer an observation en the sub.
jest to which their attend= was directed yesterday. If a new
barn was to be erected for the farmer who now occupied this
Palace, he thought It would 'be better economy to reinstate the
Palace. This, he thought, would manifest better taste than was
exhibited in the two eying tee-misters which formed the wings of
Bueklnghant Palace.
The Duke of WELLINGTON could not inform the Noble
Lord either what would be the expense of repairing Eltham Palace,
Or what would be the expense of repairing Buckingham House. I
He begged, however, to say, that previous to the alteration or
Buckingham House, his was worse lodgedjhan any
lioesivi, /or almost tag pious OeMliman,lii taiope.

Non= wit Rasa TIONS.
Lord HOLLAND, in calling the attention of their
Lordships to the state of the foreign relations of the
country, begged to remind them, that although the
strongest hopes were conveyed as to the amicable ad-
justment of the affairs of Russia, Turkey, and Greece,
and of the affairs of our ancient ally, the kingdom of
Portugal, at the commencement of the Session, yet since
that period no information whatever had been commu-
nicated to the House. Events bad since taken place of
a most important, he might nay, of a most calamitous
nature, and it was not fit that Parliament should display
any thing like indifference. It was with a view to avoid
the appearance of this indifference that he now brought
forward this motion. It would have been more becom-
ing if his Majesty's Government had given the info&
'nation spontaneously. He begged, however, to say,
that he was not actuated by any feelings of hostility to
his Majesty's Government. His motion was not one of
censure ; it was simply one requesting information ; at
the same time he was bound is candour to say, that the
unbounded confidence which it was clear Parliament
gave to his Majesty's present Government did not meet
with his approbation. It annoyed him, and he thought
it could not conduce to the welfare of the community.
It would be recollected that his Majesty had stated, at
the opening of the Session, that he would do his utmost
to carry into effect the Treaty of the 6th of July. Here
was something which required explanation. The Pro-
tocol of St. Petersburgh was the basis of the Treaty of
the 6th of July, and this Treaty was a glorious and be-
neficial Treaty. It was signed on the 6th of July, 1827;
Parliament yet sitting.
The Duke of WELLINGTON—No. no.
Lord HOLLAND—WeII, perhaps Parliament might
have risen a day or two before. But on the meeting of
Parliament in 1828 the hope was held out to the coun-
try that the benefits of this Treaty were likely to be
realised. But at the soarers time. somewhat ostentatiously,
the Power which this Treaty was intended to coerce
was called an ancient ally of this country. He believed
this term of ancient ally was now generally considered
as a modern blunder. The Poste had, however, rejected
the terms of this Treaty. and in consequence the Am-
bassadors of the Allied Powers; the Ambassador of Eng-
land included, quitted Constantinople. Then came the
Hatti Sheriff of the Grand Seigneur, which he now
pretended was addressed only to his own subjectsr7
Here the Noble Lord entered into a glowing panegilic
of the conduct of Russia, and said that it was an in-
stance of unparalleled magnanimity that Russia had
not gone to war with Turkey long ago, to please her
people and to accomplish the object of her natural am-
bition. What then was the effect of the change of cir-
cumstances which had taken place upon the Govern-
ment of France ? The Government of France had ex-
plained to its subjects the situation in which it stood—
the Government of Russia had given similar explana-
tions to its subjects—the Government of England alone,
of all the Allies, had been totally silent, like the cha-
racter in the comedy of the Two Gentlemen of Verona.
The supineness of Parliament had been carried far
enough, and upon the grounds he had stated he thought
it his duty to require information. A change had taken
place, and grounds of suspicion had arisen, that Gover-
nment intended perhaps to fulfil the narrow letter of the
Treaty of the 6th of July, but at the same time to evade
its spirit. The glorious victory of Navarin had been
spoken of by the British Government, and by the British
Government only, as an untoward event. The other
Powers had a right to expect, and did expect, that if
properly followed up, that victory would have been
followed by the complete accomplishment of the object
of the Treaty. There were indications of a difference
of opinion between the three Powers. The French Go-
vernment had proposed to send money to the Greeks,
and England objected. This objection was et first at-
tended to; but, if he was not greatly misinformed, the
French Government had recently sent out a sum of half
a millioa of livres. It was understood at the time of
signing the Treaty, that if the Greeks accepted it, and
the Turks did not, Consuls should be se' .t to Greece.
France and Russia had sent Consuls to Greece. He had
yet to learn that England had taken a similar step.
The Noble Lord here entered into an examination of
the Protocol of St. Petersburgh, and contended that it
was, as much as the Treaty of the 6th July, an interfe-
rence with the internal affairs of Russia, and as much,
a ground for a declaration of war on the part of Turkey
as the Treaty of the 6th of July. He pledged himself
to prove, if the Noble Duke would give him the dis-
patches, that at the time of signing the Protocol it was
perfectly well understood that Turkey, unless coerced,
would not submit. Force must have been contem-
plated ; and if it was not contemplated by the Bri-
tish Government, that Government acted a most
artful, insincere, and dishonourable part towards Rus-
sia. Russia, by this Protocol, gave up the immediate
prospect of glory and aggrandisement. Glory and
aggrandisemeat were rights of nations; and Russia, by
the Protocol, gave up and surrendered a portion of her
rights to induce England to sign it. If the Government
of England intended merely to mediate and remon-
strate, and then, if Turkey would not listen to them,
to withdraw like a dog with its tail between its legs, it
was most unhandsome conduct towards Russia, and
inconsistent with the preamble of the Protocol, which
invoked the names of religion, of humanity—names
which admit not of half measures, and which must be
defended at all hazards, and io all events, by those who
pretend to advocate them. The Noble ford had as

7,

1828

intended to adiert eo much at length to this diplomatic
proceeding ; tut he had been drawn into it by the neces-
sity of obsarvig upon the mystery add silence of his
Majesty's Eiotrnment—a mystery and silence calcu- '
bleed to ecioe suspicion throughout Europe and the
wield. I.Tpts this pan of the subject he had a string
ifleotionsie propose. The first was for a copy of any
Treaty 'Aug between the Ottoman Porte and Great
Britain prelims to 1809; the second was for an account
of any comspict between the two Governments, entered
into by wod of mouth. The necessity of this motion
One fromierhat a Noble Viscount had said on the first
day of tlsti Session, with respect to a traditional ani-
mate, whim he founded the existence of that traditional
alliance tpon the fidelity of the Turks, much greater,
ashribed it, than could even be expected of
The Noble Baron here entered into a de-
taif transactions in which the Noble Viscount
(Lord grangford) had borne a part at Constantinople,,
to shiewthat the Noble Lord had some experience, in
eantredittion of this assumed fidelity. The third mo-
tion was for copies of any Declaration made by the
Empelear of Ropsia of his intention to adhere to the
Treaty of the Oda of July, 1827, notwithstanding the se-
parate hostihlies in which he was engaged with Turkey.
The fourth motion which he should make on this part
of the subject was for a copy of the minutes of any
conferences which had taken place between the Minis-
ters of Engand, Russia, and France, with respect to
any ulterior measures for carrying into effect the Treaty
of the 6th a July. He now came to the state of out
relations wih Portugal. He contended that Lisbon
was the most important point of the Continent to Eng-
land. He bought that the English nation was bound
to maintait the Government of Portugali et t only
against foreign invasion, but against domestic insurrec-
tion. The testy went to this length. Toe Noble Duke
might shake his head, but this was his opinion. Pot,
toga' was the most important branch of continental
politics to the people of England. They had been told
at the commencement of the Session that the objects of
the armament sent to Portugal had been accomplished.
Could this ire said now? Could it be said that Don
Miguel was a Monarch for Portugal whom Great Bri•
tarn ought to support? Don Miguel was the ally of
that class of politicians who wished to reduce Europe
to one universal despotism. He wished to know to
what the faith and honour of the British Crown was
pledged: How far were they pledged to support the
Constitutional party in Portugal ? How far were they
pledged to support the rights of the Emperor of Brazil,
or of his daughter ? He meant to impute no blame,
bin be mum say that the neutrality we had professed
had operated exclusively in (avour of the party against
whom all our honest wishes must have been directed.
The presence of the British troops had perhaps con-
tributed to protect Don Miguel, at the moment
when measures might have been taken effectually to
counteract his enterprise. Then the correspondence of
a Noble Lord, however innocent in itself, had in fact
contributed to the success of Don Miguel ; and'if the
patches of the British Ambaisador were given him,
be had no doubt he should be able to prove that these
letters had contributed to encourage the projects of
Don Miguel. The Noble Lord had a right, if he thought
fit, to be a Miguelite ; with this no fault could be
found; but if he bad been the Noble Duke, he should
not have appointed him to a high official situation,
knowing him to be a Miguelite, at the very moment
when the British Government professed to be the ally of
Don Pedro. With respect to the blockade of Oporto,
be admitted the principle upon which the Noble Earl at
the head of the Foreign Department had acted. It was
the principle of supporting the weak against the strong.
But he lamented some of the expressions which had
been employed, and he could not but regret the breath-
less haste with which this blockade had been retognised.
The constitution of Portugal was not the creation of
the British Government, but the circumstances in which
it had been conveyed to Europe, led many Portuguese
subjects to think that it was the offspring of English
councils, and many of them supported it entirely on
that ground. He was certain, however, in fact, that its
enemies were the enemies of English connection, and
its friends the friends of English connection. We were
then blended with it in some degree. It had been said
that the Portuguese people were averse to the Constitu-
tion. He did not believe this, either with respect to the
people of Portugal or Spain. It was clear, that, in fact,
British influence in Portugal had received a fatal wound
by the recent transactions. He had no intention to
panegyrise a late Minister, with whom throughout all
the earlier part of his life he had been in political hos-
tility ; but, whether by wisdom or by accident, he had
left this country in close alliance with the greatest
Powers of Europe, and in military possession of that
point which, above all others, was the most important
to the interests of England. Since his death our situa-
tion had not improved. It was fashionable to say that
England could not embark in a war. He admitted that
war was adverse to the interests of the country, but he
contended that war was preferable to a dishonourable
peace. In addition to the papers he had already enu-
merated, he should move .for a copy of the 'minutes of
any conference held at Vienna, on the 18th of October,
1827, between the Minister of the Emperor of Austria,
the Minister of England, and any person on bebalf of
Don Miguel, the second son of King John of Portu-
gal ; for copies of all dispatches received from the Bri-
tish Resident in Portugal since the Ist of May, 1828;
and for copies of the instructions sent to the British
Ambassador in Portugal.
The Earl of ABERDEEN—I am willing to believe
that the Noble Lord, in bringing forward the present
motion, wAs actuated by a sense of the duty which he
owes to this House and to the country ; and I trust I
ao not ask too great an extension of credit and candour
from the Noble Lord, when I request him to believe
that it is a similar sense of duty, arising from a due atten-
tion to the general interests, that induces me to withhold
My assent to his motion. If I did not think that a due
regard to the interests of all those involved in the mat-
ters to which the motion refers did not suggest the in-
expediency of acceding to it, I can assure him that I
should not dissent from it from any desire of secresy
on the part of his Majesty's Government. With respect
to the objects of the motion itself, some of them have no
existence—others of his objects have been attained by
the appearance of the information which be requires in
the neweimPers-i-and other information which be re-
quires is inexpedient to be produced now, pending the
actual progress of negotiations. Indeed Ido not thank
I err much in supposing that the Noble Lord brought
the motion more became be thought it a convenient

[PRICE §,EVENPENCI.

opportunity on which to bang the observations with
which he accompanied it, than from desire for thein-
formation itself—(Hear). The Noble Lord addressed
himself parti9litly to two great subjects, which of late
had prominently occupied public attention—namely,
the state of the Levant and the state of Portugal. To
the last of these topics I shall advert first. In the course
of the speech of the Noble Lord, I was desirous to mark a.
the particular points of charge which the Noble Lord • •
intended to prefer against the Government, for what
they had done as well as foi what they had left undone
—(Hear). The Noble Lord thought proper to express
his regret at the events which had recently taken place
in Portugal—au expression in which be was sure to have
the complete concurrence of his Majesty's Government,
and of every Member of that House—(Hear.) The
Noble Lord further said, that whilst we professed the
principle of neutrality in Portugal, appearances were
against our observance of that principle. But the Noble
Lord did•not accompany that assertion with any proof
of our infringement of it, and I will say, that whatevet
infringement .of neutrality there was—if .there were
any—certainly was not in Favour of that side which the
Noble Lord would induce the House to suppose.-._
The rapidity with which the blockade of Oporto was
acknowledged was complained co, and also the title
given by this country to Don Miguel. The title by
which he was addressed 'by this country, up to the
time of our keeping up an intercourse with him, was
the proper one—and as to the rapidity with which the,
blockade was acknowledged, it was becoming the dig:
pity of the Government of this country to declare its
opinion upon the blockade as soon as it was formed. If
Government had any doubt as to the establishment of
the blockade, that might furnish a ground for delaying
the declaration of its opinion ; but as soon as the opi-
nion was formed, they should not pause for a moment
in promulgating it. The Noble Baron complained of
the withdrawing our troops from the military position*
which they occupied in Portugal; but what right bad
we to maintain them?—(Hear.) Our troops were sent
out there to carry into execution a Treaty, to the fulfil.
meat of which we were pledged. We had no option
but to fulfil it, and we did so. Sometime after the
withdrawal of our troops there might, perhaps, base
been some wish in the breasts of some persons that we
maintained our military occupation, but at ti e time at
l
which the troops were withdrawn, there was ground s
whatever—none that I could learn—for our I' oining
possession. As to the British Government giving
its sanction to the course pursued by Doti Miguel, it
would be only necessary to state, that Don Miguel, on
leaving this country for Portugal, obtained supplies of
money through our intervention, bet as soon as he had
deviated from thai course which it was agreed upon be
should pursue, the supplies were stopped ; remonstrance
on remonstrance was daily made to him against the
career in which he had embarked ; and such was the
esttnt of the dissatisfaction manifested by the British
Government, that the functions of our Ambassador
were suspended. and be declined any intercourse what-
ever with Don Miguel. Was this, let me ask, no di:.
position of advantage shown to the party opposed to
Don Miguel? Was this a neutrality exercised, as the
Noble Lord had represented it, in his favour? Or was
not this breaking off of all diplomatic intercourse a neu-
trality. if not partial, at least rather against than for
those in his favour ?--(Hear, hear.) Many of the ob-
servations of the Noble Lord appeared to proceed from
an erroneous notion of our relations with Portugal, and
our obligations to that country. Those obligations sim-
ply consisted of a guarantee upon our part to protect
Portugal from foreign aggression, and to preserve the
succession of the Throne is the House rf Braganca.
There is no treaty binding us, as the Noble Lord ha;
stated, to protect Portugal from internal dissension.
How could we enter into such an engagement? Was
it to be supposed, that at every occurrence of inter-
nal tumult, or local discord, we were to interfere
to prevent it ? The thing was impossible ; and
there is no treaty which imposes such a strange
and impracticable obligation upon us—(Hear, hear).
The Noble Llrd next asks what obligations we owe to
the Constitution of Portugal ? My answer is, none—
none whatever. That Conititution is not of English
origin—(Hear). The presence of our troops in Portugal
may have contributed to the support of it longer. per-
haps, than but for the influence of their presence it
would have been maintained; but we have over and
over again disclaimed that it was the object of our ex-
pedition to support a particular Constitution. Inter-
ference with the internal Government of Portugal was
no part of our business. Whatever our wishes may be
in favour of liberal institutions, with whatever favour
we may regard them, and however highly gratifying
to our feelings may be the establishment of those insti-
tutions, yet it was not our province to force those insti..
tutions on the people of Portugal, contrary to their wish
to have and to cherish them—(Hear). Indeed, if one
adverts to recent events, they do not seem favourable
to the supposition that the people of • Portugal were
very favourable to free institutions. People generally
defended that which they loved ; but looking to the
conduct of those supposed to be favourable to the Char-
ter, there was little proof in their conduct of their at.
tachment to it—(Hear). Indeed I believe that to be true
respecting the people of Portugal, which I remember
to have heard Mr. Canning declare respecting the people
of Spain. Mr. Canning said that the great majority of
the people of Spain did not entertain a disposition fa-
vourable to free institutions. The recent conduct of the
people of Portugal seemed to justify the attributing of
the same disposition to the people of Portugal—(Hear,
hear). Our engagements were clearly marked and ex-
plicit; and, doubtless, if the occasion or the necessity
again arose, we would fulfil those engagements with
the same alacrity with which we had done before—.
(Hear,bear). The Noble Lord bad dwelt, not indeed
with exaggerated importance, on the alliance between
this country and Portugal. But Idsnobtetahibnikgowteanne:da
entertain any apprehensions on that score, for whoever
may be the Sovereign of Portugal—be
despot or not—he would find it his interest to maintain
the closest alliance with this country, It was not a little
remarkable that the period of our history, in which the
most intimate alliance and intercourse subsisted between
Portugal and Englandb was a period in which the Go-
vernment of Portugal was that of the most complete
despotism. There is no ground then to fear any cool-
ness of friendship on the part of Portugal.on the con-
trary,d winfifoarenfremofit;hthisosecouwnhtory: ereas cthone trgardeiasttesi ntgforisehadeds
from those who favoured a French or foreign party in
Portugal, wets to be found amongst those who sup-

poi ted Don Miguel; whereas, on the other side were to
be found many who were not friends to the interests of
thiseountry ; and many too, indeed, I believe, who are
• not Friends to the interests of any country whatever.—
• Nevertheless, whatever leaning has been showo towards
either side in the recent transactions in Portugal, would
appear to be shown in favour of that side towards which
the Noble Lord would represent the Government of this
country as having acted an adverse part. I now come
to the second point of the speech of the Noble Lord, on
which he dwelt at greater length, and with still more
energy. And first, with respect to the Treaty of the
6th of July, 1827, which has been the theme of the Noble
Lord's high eulogy, I shall not say one word of its pro-
priety or v isdom, nor make any remark whatever upon
Ait, further than to say, that finding such a Treaty in exis-
lulkence, I will not yield to the Noble Lord in a sincere and
earnest desire to carry it into execution. The Noble
Lord seemed to think that there was a disposition on
the part of the present Government to modify and to di-
minish the force of that Treaty ; hut I can assure the
Noble Lord that no such disposition exists, and that there
is every intention of carrying the Treaty into effect in the
same spirit in which it was entered into. The Treaty
seemed to be regarded by the Noble Lord as part of a
plan for the destruction of the Turkish empire; but the
destruction of that empire, or its dismemberment, which
the Noble Lord expressed himself so desirous to see,
was no part of the Treaty, or in the most remote degree
contemplated by it. So far from it, the dismember-
ment of the Empire, even the weakening of it was not
contemplated, nor was it by any means the wish or the
policy c f this country that Turkey should be weakened.
The Noble Lord assumed that appearances were in fa-
vour of such a design, but the fivers of it were want-
ing. A hope did exist, which unfortunately was not
rralised, that the objects the Treaty proposed were
to be all attained by negotiation—and they nearly were
attained, when his Imperial Majesty the Emperor of
Russia thought fit, fur reasons which appeared to make
it incumbent on him to declare war against the Porte.
This declaration cf war placed her two Allies in a new
situation, whose design, in co-operation with Russia,
was to carry their objects by every means short of war.
This material alteration in our position led to mutual
explanations ; and here I may be permitted to remark,
that if there was any intent on on the part of his Ma-
jesty's Government to evade the Treaty of 6th of July,
18c27, the new and embarrassing situation in which we
were placed afforded at least a plausible ground for our
retiring from the fulfilment of its engagements. But
to show the sincerity of the disposition of Government
to execute the terms and engagements of the Treaty,
no manifestation of a wish was made to withdraw from
-tnem—(Hear, hear). No time was lost in deciding,
under the circumstances of our new situation, how the
Treaty could be carried into execution, according to the
spirit in which it was framed. Owing to the magnani-
mity of his Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Russia,
means were successfully devised for continuing the alli-
ance in support of the Treaty ; for although the Em-
peror bad declared war against the Porte, he generously
connoted to divest himself of the character of a belli-
gerent in the Mediterranean. The Emperor could not
give a greater proof of his sincerity to carry the Treaty
into effect, by ceasing to assume a belligerent character,
and so placing himself as that he might co-operate with
neutrals. The Noble Lord might be etymologically
correct in saying that Turkey was not our ancient fiend,
but she certainly was our constant triend. There was no
Power against which we had seldomer cause of com-
plaint than Turkey .; and even now it could not be said we
had cause of war against her. The Noble Lord indulged
in exultation at the prospect of her downfall. For my
part I cannot share in that exultation, and I hope to. see
her long forming one of the great confederacy of na-
tions—(Hear). Her independence and her station among
nations was important to this country, and important
for the tine preservition of the balance of Europe—
(loud cries of hear, hear ! from Lord Holland). Nor is
this my opinion alone. I know, too, that it is the sen-
timent entertained by his Imperial Majesty the Emperor
of Russia, who, although he has declared war against
the Porte, has expressed himself as adverse to its dis-'
niemberment or destruction. I own I have more of
confidence in the magnanimity of his Imperial Majesty
than I have of apprehension or alarm in the prediction
• other quarters of the downfal and dissolution of the
Turkish power—(Hear). With respect to the omission
Which has hitherto taken place in not sending out com-
mercial agents (as we understood to Greece and the
Levant), I take in some degree blame to myself for the
omission—but the reason is, that I really have not been
ible, since the short period of my accession to office, to
atisfy myself of the qualifications of the persons who
presented themselves as candidates for the commercial,
appointments, which will, I trust, however, shortly take
lace. The Noble Lord neat proceeded to institute a
comparison between the policy of those who at present
discharged the functions of his Majesty's Government
and the policy of Mr. Canning. It is a favourite
topic, I am aware, with others as well as the Noble
Lord, to draw comparisons of this kind unfavourable
, the existing Government, as if there had been a
deviaties from the policy of Mr. Canning. Those
iho indulged mostly in that topic did not show in
what the deviation consisted; for my part I am at a
loss to know what is meant by those who use this lan-
rage, and I am also disposed to believe they are like the
.oble Lord this evening—somewhat at a loss to know
what they mean by it themselves—(Hear, hear, and a
laugh). The sincere and earnest desire shown to the
whole world to carry into execution the Treaty of the
6th of July, did not chow any intention of departing
from the policy r f Mr. Canning ; and I am not aware
any change which has taken place in the Councils of
'is Majesty's Government relating to the general policy
the Empire, since the loss of that distinguished Mi-
;ger. As to any influence that the Holy Alliance
ray be supposed to have 'over the course of policy
adopted by his Majesty's Government, I cannot help
considering it as a mere figure of speech, and of no im-
portance to the subject. It mayzive an opportunity
• a great deal of sound and fury ; but after all, it can
;oily nothing, for I will take upon myself to deny
Aat this Government has ever been connected with the
doly Alliance, in any sense injurious to the honour of
the country. In cne word, the general policy of this
country has always been to use its utmost endeavours
, preserve the peace of the whole of Europe; but I do
not think that that object is most likely to be accom-
plished by vilifying every Sovereign that reigns in
Europe—(Hear, hear, hear); and -for any thing that I
sn see to the contrary, for no other reason in the world
it because they are Sovereigns—(Hear, hear hear).
neither do I think that it is to be effected by vilifying
ie institutions of other countries, because they do not
ippen to deserve that admiration which attaches to
°se which we are so fortunate as to possess. It is not
, these means, by Lords, that universal peace will be
effected, but rather by zealously cultivating and code .
/oaring to obtain the good will of all the other Powers;
and by believing it to be possible that other nations
lay be happy to a certain extent, even though they do

not possess institutions as excellent as those of !hi.,
coentry. In short, I think that it may 14t be done by
' exercising a little of that toleration in litics, which
some Noble Lords have evinced theme yes to be tin
eager for on religious matters; and I do
,ink, that by
a prudent forbearance—by a wise exercisevf good will,
we shall be more likely to insure that *mat peace
(which, I conceive, must be the object of al our views),
than by seizing on every opportunity, andpressing on
the different States of Europe, with or *trout their
desire, institutions no doubt very admirabi in them-
selves as applied to this kingdom, but, iskxperience
has taught us, not well suited to other State‘—(Hear).
I do not think the Noble Lord has started thy other
topic which calls for further observation fron me; but
with respect to the Noble Lord's motion, I till again
say, that though some of the papers which i includes
are entirely unobjectionable in themselves, ye I think
that the whole of those which have been mWed will
but afford so very partial a view of the realcircum-
stance of the case, which they profess to explaii ; and,
indeed; that it will be so injurious to present hem to
Parliament at the present moment, that I feeltnyself
bound to oppose the motion of the Noble Lord. The
time, no doubt, will come when we shall be as atzious
as the Noble Lord; to have the papers submitted b this
House, to meet every objection that may be takin to
the course that we have thought it right to pone ;
but as the matter now stands, I think that your lord-
ships will do ill to encourage the motion of the noble
Lord, and I shall, therefore, vote against it.
Lord GODE RIC H concurred in the objections made
by the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs to she pro-
duction of the documents in question ; yet he was not
at all surprised at the view taken by the Noble Mover
of them of the state of our foreign relations a: this cri-
tical moment ; and he was sure that the infuence of
England would be diminished in the eyes d foreign
Powers if her Parliament appeared indifferent to the
passing transactions of the Continent. On ttis ground
he considered the Noble Lord to have acted lightly in
calling the attention cf Parliament to them. A wise
discretion had Leen used in not having pressed the
question on the notice of Parliament at an earlier pe-
riod; but it would be extraordinary indeed if the Par-
liament had separated without expressing an opinion
on a subject so closely connected with our facings and
our interests. But though he concurred with tae Noble
Secretary in objecting to the production-of the papers,
he must declare that his Noble Friend did aot give
the House a comprehensive account of the state of
the case, or afford much precise informatipn on it,
however satisfactorily he might have answered the
Noble Mover on some particular points—!Hear).—
Having listened with much attention to the proposition
of the Noble Baron, it was impossible for him not to
feel interested, particularly on two questions alluded to
by him ; the first, the condition of that unfortunate
country—unfortunate so long; but henceforward, he
hoped, unfortunate no longer—he meant Greece. It was
impossible for any man who had his feelings in the right
place not to have felt pity for the sufferings, and an in-
terest in the fate of that wretched country; but it was
necessary for persons holding the offices of Government
I—he had himself felt it necessary when in office—to
check that personal feeling of sympathy, and not to
allow themselves as Miniaters to be influenced in their
political conduct by feelings which may be most honour.
able to them as individuals; and though the Members
of the Government who framed the Treaty on the sub-
ject of Greece felt compassion for long and many suf-
ferings, yet that was not the ground on which it was
framed, nor would it be just or expedient that the mea-
sures of the Government should be regulated by a spirit
which might naturally and creditably regulate the con-
duct of the Noble Mover in his individual character.—
The object of the British Government was not to in-
dulge such a spirit, and the instructions given to the
Noble Duke would prove that the Treaty was not
founded on an abstract wish to rescue Greece from the
domination of Turkey. But the real fact was, that the
state of that country for years had been such as to ex-
cite considerable alarm and anxiety among the Powers
of Europe, and it clearly appeared, that if that condi-
tion was not put an end to, the con'equence would be
universal strife and confusion. The object, then, was,
not to rescue Greece from the thraldom of Turkey,
but to prevent the explosion of a general war. 0,1 that
ground the protocol was justified, and also the subse-
quent treaty of July 1827, and on the same English
principle, in the more direct and coercive measures re-
cently adopted. But, however, the object of the Govern
meat was, that we should not proceed any length. If
that treaty, which intended to establish a good under-
standing, and serve the common interest of the parties
to it, had not been in existence, Russia would have gone
to war with Turkey long since, on separate grounds of
complaint, or even on the same. This treaty thus gave
us an advantage in delaying her operations, and has had
this good effect beside, that to it we owe the assurance
of his Imperial Majesty of his disinterested intentions in
waging the war—assurances in which I concur with my
Noble Friend, in placing my reliance. As to Portugal,
no man can look at the transactions there without feel-
ing emotions which it is impossible to express. There
is nothing in what has occurred in that country which
enables me, or those who acted in the Government with
me, to account for the circumstance of Don Miguel's
violating the promises he made, and the oaths that he
swore. There is something in his tergiversation Inez.
plicable to me on any ground—something which I can
neither reconcile either with the general principles of
honour and good faith, or with his sense of his own in-
terest and obligations to his brother and King. in fact,
Don Miguel's conduct was such as he could not cha-
racterise without wing language to which he could not
with propriety give utterance. But as to the nature
of cur relations with Portugal, he could not see that
they were affected by the character of the internal go-
vernment of that country, nor could he allow that we
were bound by an ancient treaty to defend its Govern-
ment against internal revolutions. Our Government
never acted on that principle. In 1820, when the autho-
rity of the King was destroyed by a rebellion, we did not
interfere to restore him to his power. He (LordGoderich)
did not love revolutions—that is speculative revolutions
-.—Goo forbid he should not allow the people the right
of seeking a remedy for real grievances—but least of all
did he like revolutions effected by the army; for it hap-
pened that the military agents in effecting a revolution
were the first to help in putting it down. For instance,
the revolution of Naples, which was caused by the
military, was, if not put down by them, certainly
,aban-
Idoned by them, for they ran away and refused to fight
for it—(A laugh). So the revolution attempted against
the Constitution, and of the same nature, was the-recent
insurrection against Don Miguel. But after the King
of Portugal had suppressed the revolution of 1820, feel-'
ing uneasy in his situation, he applied to the British
Government for military assistance, but the Government
refused it, declaring that though they were bound and
ready to defend Portugal against external attacks, they
were not justified in interfering in internal dissen-
tious between the King and the people. Then, to
come to the Constitution, which wits said to have

originated with England, when, in truth. the English
.h a nN
proceeded with ad
the InCoornestigtoutidoon wofithChiitnat
they
from Den Pedro himself; be acted judi-
ciously Governmenttti do
and wisely in giving Portugal that Consti-
tution. Portugal acted wisely in accepting it, and
most unwisely in getting rid of it; but when that Con-
stitution arrived in Portugal, though it proceeded from
the most legitimate source—the King, by his own grace
and favour,—it excited fears and alarm, not only in the
Court of Spain, but in the whole Spanish people. The
consequence was intrigue) and the demonstration of
force on the part of Spain against the Constitutional state
of Portugal. To protect Portugal against this menaced
attack we sent troops to Portugal—while there, they,
by their presence, certainly tended to uphold the Con-
stitution, and if they had remained there it would be in
existence still; but then those troops being no longer
neces'arythere for thepurposecontemplatedbythe treaty,
could not be left there any longer without a breach of
the general principles of international law ; and, how.
'ever closely England was connected with Portugal, the
British Government could not in wisdom or justice de-
part from her march of general principles on account
of their predilection for one particular State, or in one
particular case. He would not enter into comparisons
or contrasts between our feelings for one State or indi•
vidual and those entertained for another; but he would
assert generally and abstractedly, that there was nothing
in the present position of England, embarrassed as she
may be by some recent events abroad, to stain her ho-
nour or lower her dignity in the eyes of Europe—nothing
to take from that respect which the nations took good
care to feel and display towards her—because they knew
we were honest and useful friends, such as they would
be glad to have recourse to in their hour ot reverses;
nor is there any thing in our public measures inconsis-
tent with a more liberal and dignified policy.
The Duke of WELLING roN—Though I think
that your Lordships must be entirely satisfied with the
answers that have been given to the Noble Lord who
moved this question, by my Noble Friends who have
preceded me, yet I cannot allow this question to be put
without troubling the House with a very few observa-
tions. I certainly do not blame the Noble Lord for
bringing forward his motion on the present occasion,
but at the same time I cannot allow .hat the Govern-
ment is to blame because they have not given occasion
in the course of the Session to a similar discussion ; and,
indeed, it should be observed, that they could only have
done so by adopting one of those measures which the
Noble Lord had on a former night called on them to
carry into execution; that is to say, either by bringing
forward a vote of credit—but do not see why we
should do that, as I am happy to say that we stand in
need of no such measure—(hear, hear); or by making
a communication to Parliament of some course which
his Majesty was about to adopt. I do not, however, see
that there was any occasion for the Government to do
either one or ocher of these things, and, therefore,
though the Noble Lord has no doubt adopted a wise
discretion in bringing forward his present motion, 1.
think that we Asir have done ;he same in not introducing
a measure far which we could not see any occasion—
(Hear). But, at the same time, let me say that we have
used no concealment in this question. No Noble Lord
in this House has asked any question—no Gentleman
in the other House of Parliament has proposed any,
which either name Noble or Right Hon. Friend of mine
has not been prepared to answer ; and, therefor; if we
have not already had a discussion on this subject, it is
because it has not been thought proper to have it : and
in this respect I certainly think that you haveexercised
a wise discretion; and I, for one, will say that I feel in.
finitely obliged to you for not having forced his Ma-
jesty's Government into premature explanations. It
is certainly true that these transactions are still
carrying on, and it would therefore be very inconve-
nient to Government and to other persons, to have these
documents laid before the House in all the extent to
which such information ought to be carried—(hear) ;
while to produce one or two papers only, would be to
give merely partial information, or worse than nothing.
'Diet which we desire is, that when the whole of the
transactions are closed, the House should receive the
fullest information on the subject, and that it sh• uld be
laid open to the fullest discussion on all points. With
respect to the first topic on which the Noble Lord
touched in the course of his speech—l mean the trans-
actions which are at present carrying on in the East—l
beg to say that from the time when I first began to
have any thing to say to the political government ot this
country, which is now about fourteen years ago, it has
been my most anxious object, and I know that it has also
been the anxious object of the Government, to maintain
peace between Russia and Turkey. I am speaking in
the hearing of those who know this fact as Well as I do,
and they can bear me out in my statement. Such being
the case, I cannot help-imagining that the Noble Lord
has pronouncsd a very extraordinary opinion when be
supposes that, it is our desire to see Turkey disjointed—
and not only ours, but that of all Europe besides, with-
out even excepting the Emperor of Russia himself; for
I have his authority, or at least the authority of his
Minister, to say that the Emperor does not at all desire
the destruction, or even the dismemberment of the
Turkish Empire; and with respect to the transactions
at St. Peteisburgb, to which my Noble Friend (Lord •
Goderich) has alluded, and in which I took an active
part, I can confidently state that they were entirely
founded on the anxious desire which this country felt to
maintain peace between all European States. In the
instructions that I received on that occasion, this was
not only the peculiar object that I was required to have
in view, but it was absolutely made a sine qua non of
the whole—(Hear, hear); and I was forbidden to con-
clude any thing with respect to the affairs of Greece, if
it was intended that war should be the means by which
that arrangement was to be carried into execution. But
the Noble Lord said, that in that case the Emperor was
deceived. All I know on that subject is, that the Em-
peror actually saw my instructions, for I showed them
to him myself—at least that part of them in which
that particular principle was enjoined; but then, says
the Noble Lord, we must be drivellers to expect to
be able to carry into execution such an arrange-
ment without employing a military force. Incoming to
such a conclusion we certainly may have been deceived,
but let me ask your Lordships to look at the peculiar
situation of Turkey and Greece at the moment when
this measure was in agitation. They had then been at
war together for a period of six years, and it was gene-
rally supposed that the Greek navy was greatly superior
to that of the Turks; besides this, Turkish army after
Turkish army had been destroyed in the Morea, and it
was confidently presumed that Greece would be able to
keep the field, while the very thing that was most es-
sential on the side of the Turks—viz. the possession of
a Reet—was not in existence. Under these circum-
stances, this Government thought that there was a very
good chance for successful mediation between the two,
and, above all, it thought that that tnediatirm, with
the assistance of Russia, might have been the means
of preserving peace between the Turkish and Rus-
,4ian Empires. Such, then/ was *the principal object

which this country had in view, and which se,.
the origin of the Treaty of last July. Peace was rt.e prin.
eiple that was held oat in that Triety ; it was the r
ciple when I took charge of the Government, in the
month of January ; and it is the principle whi h is still
in existence—(Hear). It was with this View that it was
recommended to his Majesty to holdthe language which
he did at the commencement of the present ;lesbian of
Parliament. It was in that view that is e have will per-
severed, and if we have failed, at lea 4 it is not owing to
any fault of ours, but to causes over which we crud
have no controul. and to circumstances over which,
when we first came into office, we could not possibly
have any controul. In making this observation, lam
not imputing blame to any one, but I only say so much
to show that they were circum,tances which we could
not possibly' contreul, and, in point of fact, the article
in question had actually been issued six weeks before the
meeting of Parliament, and six weeks before rp.‘r coming
into office. My Noble Friend (Lord A herder n) has gene
so fully into the rest of the question, that there is hardly
any necessity for my making any further statement. [
cannot, however, help pointing out, that the circum-
stances of the war in which Russia is at present • ngaged,
have made a material alteration in the affairs of Europe,
and must necessarily have had a material influence
over our negociations between the States, so as to
have delayed considerably the object which we have
had in view up to the resent time, Pnd which, in
fact, we ate carrying on at the present moment.—
And now, having said thus much on this topic, I
will advert to the other subject introduced by the
Noble Lord. At the period when Parliament met, a
British force was in possession of Lisbon, and it
was settled that it should come away at the moment
that Don Miguel arrived in that country ; it was like-
wise settled that the Prince Regent should return to
Portugal immediately ; and I think that this was a pro.
per arrangement, he having entered into engagements
at Vienna, for the support of the C nstittiounal prin-
ciples of Portugal; and likewise in this c witty, during
his passage through it to Portugal, and to which we
were more immediate parties. I pettedly agree with
what has fallen from my Noble Friend (Lord ode-
rich) as to the most extraordinary conduct• of the
Prince Regent, by which he broke through all his
pledges, and that so soon atter his arrival in Portugal,
as to show what little scruple he made of breaking
all his engagements, whether made to his Sovereign
and his brother, or to those Allies on whom he counted
most. But it was certainly ow, that within a very few
days after his arrival in Portugal, he had manifested
his intentions; and the moment that it was perceived
by oar Ambassador at Lisbon, he did what he could
to prevent such a step, by immediately sending away
the means by which the Prince Regent would be en-
abled to carry his design into execution—by sending that
money away which had been supplied to the Prince Re-
gent through this Government. This was the only mea.
, sure which it was in the power' of our Ambassador to
adopt, and it was adopted : besides wh.ch, our stated
tention was to leave the British troop, for a short time
at Lisbon, in order to give the Prince Regent the ap.
pearance of the conntensnce of the EngltshGovernment.
These,however,were likewise recalled ; and from that day
to this, there was not an act of his Government against
i which we had a right to remonstrate that bad not
, been made use of for that purpose. As soon as any de-
cided intention was manifested by him of openly as-
suming the title of Bing, the diplomatic functions of
our Ambassador had been broken off; and as soon as
that measure had actually been carried into execu-
tion, our Ambassador left Lisbon, and every means
were taken to manifest the disapprobation that this
Government entertained towards his conduct. Among
other things, the ' Noble Lord had talked of the
blockade of Oporto, and had complained that it was
admitted and notified in a hurry. The truth is,
that it was necessary to respect that blockade in ac-
cordance with former decisions, and on account of
our own practice: It became our duty to make the
merchants of this country acquainted w ith the block-
ade, though it was not notified to us in the regu-
lar form in which such transactions are usually notified,
and the adoption of which form wculd have given to
the blockade greater extension and effect than it actually
possessed. The truth is, that owing to the suspension
of the diplomatic relations between the two countries,
the notification could net be communicated to us with
all the usual regularity. The way in which the block-
ade was notified to us, was by finding it announced in
the Lisboa Gazette. It was found that in former in-
stances blockades had been respected which were noti-
fied to us in a similar manner. We could not do other-
wise. It is true that there were some irregularities in
carrying this blockade into execution—the fact being.
that some ships got out of the port, and some also got
into the Douro; but as far as the Government was coo-
cerned, I believe the transaction was perfectly regular,
and such as we could not refuse to respect. No man re-
grets more than I do—and the Noble Lord will, I dare
say, admit that I have some reason to regret—the situa-
tion in which Portugal has been brought. No man teas
more strongly than I do the advantage of our alliance
and intimacy with the Portuguese nation. Bet I must
say, that having carefully looked over all the treaties
between the two countries, and considered the transac-
tions in which thrse treaties had been carried into ex-
ecution, not only formerly but recently,and particularly
during the last 50 years, it appears to me that we have
no right to interfere in tarrying into execution any par-
ticular measure of Government in Portugal. I could
quote several instances, and during the last six years
especially,when we have positively refused to guarantee
the Constitutions that have existed there, or to interfere
with the relations beween the Sovereign and the sub-
ject, or to have any thing to do with the internal con-
cerns of the kingdom of Portugal ; and when we find
that parties are divided—one in favour of one particular
fotm, and others against it—it is surely the part of a
wise Government to wait and see the result of the con-
test, before we mixed ourselves in it. This is the part
of a Government Oat wishes to preserve the alliance
with that country before we decide on the line of con-
duct it may be expedient for us to pursue. We cer-
tainly do find ourselves in this situation. We have re•
cognized the sovereignty of Don Pedro; and of course,
the sovereignty of his daughter, arising from his abdi.
cation. At the same time we have clearly no right to
Interfere in the internal affairs of that kingdom; cer-
tainly not before we know what line the rightful Mo.
narch, according to our recognition, may himself take
with regard to these events. We have no right, and I will
say, we have no inclination to interfere, until we know
what he will do; because we cannot know what course
good policy may dictate when we are apprised of his in-
tentions,and of his means to carry his object into execu-
tion. I can quote, not only the instance of our refusal
to guarantee the Constitution of 1820-1 mean the
Republican Constitution but another instance still
more in point, when our troops lately went to Portugal.
I will answer for it, that the Commander of those troops
had positive instructions to interfere in no manner with
the disputes and commotion: of the country, and that
his attention was confined strictly to the rightful object

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