Star.
London, England, 1810-01-30 00:00:00

tble and enterprising Officer for the '
,lied victory, on one who had done so
,e it as Lord Gacnbier, in the present
Lordship concleded by moving,
beihre the House a Cory of the Minutes
held on board the Gladiator, in Pont-
on the 3il of July, Igoe, for the Trial of Lord

non, and, with a catidonr wmcn Num
gave Ministers notice of
Lord, his Colleague, had-mid, that Lord Gambier
had delayed sending in ships to support him. Lord
Gambier himself allowed, " that a lapse of time had
taken place." If
.there was any distinction between
the charge and the admission, Lord Gambier's was
the strongest. A lapse of time, he feared was a lapse
of victory. It was a lapse of a tide. The old Pro-
verb says, 66 Time and tide wait for no man."—
LordGambier thought they would, but he found him-
self mistaken. The Noble Lord, his colleague, was-
appointed- to conduct the atta. k —appointed 6y the
Admiralty for that purpose ; and his orders should'
have been obeyed 'as the Commander in Chief.—
.Lord Gambier's principal concern seems to have
been to przserve the fleet. If Lord Nelson, at the i
battle of the Nile, or in that in which he lost kis life, •
had acted on this principle, he would never have
been crowned with the laurels he so bravely won,
nor would the thanks of that House and the ho-
nours of his Sovereign have so gloriously distin-
guished him. Lord Gambier's plan seemed to be a
desire to preserve his Majesty's fleet—that of his No-
ble Colleague was to destroy that of the enemy.—
He had never heard that the Articles of War held
out an instruction to preserve the fleet. The general
view of gallant officers was to obtain victory. As to
Lord Gambier, he never heard he had pretended to
have done any service on this occasion ; his only me-
rit seemed to lie in what- he had omitted to do.
That might, indeed, be wise and prudent ' • but it
could never be the object of a Vote of Thanks. Mi-
nisters had, however, convicted themselves—they
had advised his Majesty to honour iris Noble Col-
league with a Red Ribbon, and this would be in fact
to stnp him of all its value. Hoiv came Ministers
to appoint the Noble Lord and approve so highly of
all he. had done ? If they gave a Vote of Thanks to
Lord Gambier, they would do injustice to his Noble
Colleague. In the Minutes it appeared that his No-
ble Colleague made a signal for assistance at five
o'clock in the morning, and none was given till two
in the afternoon. The shoals and batteries had not
been removed ; they remained the same as in the
morning ; and if there was any danger in them, it
was no greater in the morning than it was in the af-
ternoon. Our ships were as likely to suffer from
them at the one time as at the other. Under these
circumstances, he thought it necessary the Minutes
should be produced. It had been done in the case
of Colonel Cawthorne, which was of infinitely less
impor.:ance to the public. He should conceive there-
fore he did not do his duty if he did not support the
motion made by his Noble colleague.
Mr. YORKE said, the question before the House
was, whether the minutes of the trial or the sentence
should be laid before them? To produce the former
he did not conceive could be necessary. The Noble
Lord's statement under every circumstance was un-
supp3rted. Much had been said of the Noble Lord's
gallantry. he believed very justly, but he was sorry
l pursued the line of conduct he did. He rejoiced
that a Gentleman was present who was on the Court
Martial that could contradict the injurious assertions
of the Noble Lord. The Hoi. Baronet was pretty
careful while there as td his facts, in speaking of the
Noble Lord as having had the c onirct of the whole
affair and ben entire unsupported, hid exagg
greatly. The Hon. Gentleman then spoke at slme
length in defence of the conduct of Lord Garr:lien
lie w;,s justified in feeling anxious for the preservation
of his ships. The Noble Lord, with all his gallantry,
was but a young Officer, and, prior to the attack in
the Basque Roads, had never commanded a line of
battle ship. Lord Gambier was an old and experien-
ced Commander; his bravery was well known. in
the glorious action on the Ist of June he was the first
to break the line of the enemy. When he spoke of
Ministers wishing to screen themselves from blame
for their conduct with respect to this affair, though
he did not know that any blame could possibly attach
to their conduct through the whole business ; yet he
thought, that if they were culpable in any one in-
stance, it was in selecting him (Lord Cochrane) to exe-
cute the-enterprise. It was a departure from the re-
gular line of conduct. There were senior Officers
who ought to have been employed, who would in all
probability have displayed equal courage if they had
not possessed the Noble Lord's caution in so eminent
a degree as to fire the combustibles when a mile and
a half distant from the enemy.
Mr. W. WYNNE said, that it appeared to him to
be a case of opinion in which Lord Cochrane's opi-
nion was on one side, and every other Officer's on the
the other. Under such circumstances he thought it
was not for the House to interfere with the decision of
the Court Martial. He therefore voted for the amend-
ment.
Mr. WILBERFORCE took a view of both sides
of the question. He thought the House called upon
to cast the severest stigma on those who had formed
the Court-Martial that had ever been thrown on any
set of men whatever. The sentence was what the
House o:-ght to confine themselves i.e. If it had been
ambiguous it would then have been for them to have
taken a different line of conduct ; but when it redoun-
ed so much to his honour, and in such unequivocal
terms, all that could be said was, the Noble Lord dif-
fered from them in opinion. I. was to' e remen b -red
he who was now to be thanked for preserving our ships
had formerly been thanked for breaking the line, in
Lord Howe's victory.—This circumstance must con-
vince the Hon. Baronet that Lord Gambier could do
something in that line, for eminence in which he was
so ready to bestow praise. If they did any thing with
respect to the Court-Martial, it ought to be against the
men who composed it, and not against their decision.
Lord NEWARK would not vote for the motion of
the Noble Lord, because he conceived no just grounds
had been 1 Lid before the House to induce them to vote
for it. The Noble Lord, in his opinion, had brought
forward grent and serious charges which would not
meet support.
Sir CHARLES HAMILTON thought if the mi-
nutes of the Court-Martial were produced, this House
could not interfere. The jurisdiction under which
the gallant Lord had been tried was a competent one,
and it was their duty to ascertain where the fault, if
any, lay. The Hop. Baronet believed that the fault
. . -
,lisped, was imputable
the present mo-
some instances
Lord (Coch-
kad actually
over."

RESFORD said, he could not content
iving a silent vote on the present ques-
ible Lord who made the motion had, in
st a severe reflection on the Court and
ies. He (Captain Beresford) knew
er of that Court-Martial; and he be.
were Officers of as high honour and
the Noble Lord. He also knew the
id he believed them worthy of credit.
lad been a very strong witness against
al done by Lord Cochrane. (A crdr.ef
begged pardon • he found he had un-
transgressed a rule of the House, in men-
lame of a Member—it was owing to
ice—he had much rather be at sea than
at House.— (As universal laugh.)—He
the Court Marual what he then repeated,
Gambier acted as the Noble Lord who
'ion wished him to do, he would have
imself, and our ships would have been on
Noble Lord had forgot how he formed
id log-books is favour of the evidence to
:dare the Court Martial. He hoped the.
I do kim the justice to believe, he was
no motive but a sense of public duty, in
ig his sentiments in opposing the motion
Lord.
ORDE. said he could not conceive why
,s should be called for. Lord Gambier
d by a Court Martial; and lie could not
production of the minutes, because it
:owing a side-way censure on the Court,
make it very irksome to Officers when,
discharge that duty.
TLETON instanced the case of Captain
.he Esser, in which it had been resolved
•oceedings of a Court Martial were liable to
hat House ; from which he inferred they
to ask for the Minutek and as such he
,out the Motion.
RRYAT said, Ministers had, on the first
Session, contended that the House ought
to a decision without information ; and
night, that they ought not even to vote for
without information. He could not, there-
vhy, in the present•instance, the House
ihed on for a vote of praise more than of
.thout having information. He thought
le honour of Lord Gambier, the Minutes
produced ; for, where something was con.
as generally supposed there was something

NC. LOR of the EXCHEQUER. said
rise to oppose, but to amend the motion.
question which was to follow, it might be
to produce the sentence of the Court Mar-
here was no occa.sion for the minutes. In
istances cited by the Hon. Gentleman who
sat down, of Ministers having asked the
wait for infoirmation, there was a very ma.
:rote from the present question ; and it did
re the acuteness and distinctness of judgMent
ir to that Hon. Gentleman to point it out.
:ase of last night, a subject was before the
Ilich they could each of them easily deter-
h;s own knowledge ; but in this case, au in-
ion had already taken place,.before a tribunal
!in to the subject ; erirtertainly. the House
rot think of calling for the minutes, in order
;Lion the conduct of the individuil who had
luitted; though they might, if it was thought
iry, do so with respect to the Court itself. The
Lord had stated, that the. House should be
N how they countenanced Inch a proceeding as
Thanks to Lord Gambier, because Ministers
able to shelter themselves from blame, for
mg 3n Officer from Parliamentary interest.
his own part, did not know of
.any
interest possessed by Lord Gambier. If, '1
, any thing could shew that Ministers were
tried by Parliamentary interest, in their ap-
,nts of Officers, he thought he might fairly
the appointment of the Noble Lord himself.
,ble Lord had complained there was. no Prose-
this Court Martial. If the Noliolu.Lord had
any necessary in it, be should himself have
it person, since it was in consequence of his
ion, that the Admiralty bad thought it due,
:e to the character of Lid Gambier, to insti-
Court Martial, to inquire into the conduct,
he Noble Lord who made the =don had so
ly censured by the letter which he had written,
his intention to oppose the vote of thanks,
that referring to the log-books of the fleet.
r All these circumstances, he hoped and trusted
'lre House would, when a vote of thanks should
led to an officer who had achieved a great ser-
Ois c minty, distinguish his merits by agreeing
it motion. He concluded by moving, as an
Invent, that the word 4, Minutes" in the origi-
)tiou he left out, and the word 44 Sentence" be
in its 'stead." _ _ _

FRANCIS BURDETT said, this was a most(
irdinary case, and was highly deserving the
itlar attention of the House. The Noble Lord
!edged his character in the most explicit man-
hit, if the Minutes were produced, he would
that the Court Martial bad acted partially,
iat Lord Gambier *was not deserving the thanks
.ere going to be moved in his favour ; and he
ht it was imposiible to believe that the Noble
would do so without being able to fulfil what
id promised: The Right Honourable Gentle-
opposite had said that the House should be
tented wits "the sentence ; that was what the
le Lord complained of ; and it seemed there
things connected.witb it which could only be
'°PerlY explained by the Minutes. In looking cur-
ly over the Minutes this morning, he thought
were some things. which appeared to be against
a.ord Gambier. The Right Honourable Gentleman
taunted his Noble Colleague v ith not hay-
been the prosecutor of Lord Gambier; but his
Colleague certainly did not deserve it.
;1d no wish to bring him to a Court Martial.
~
and thought Lord Gambier had not done all
tnS;llt have done ; and when he found that he
1.0 be rewarded by a vote of thanks, he thouht
'"" to kis own character to oppose such a

Mis. •s' ' tea. .dia .7 .. 7611figrilrig wig*
ty, comb; St., ,
plying with die *with ef Lord to mon. •
tikd.by a Ceert-biartial. He Snot either hate been He respected- bWimdleip's-tharitrterl, tifilleteente
tried there or in that House.—With all regard for the opportunities elf Ong him "oboe of. aed M
Noble Lord (Cochrane), he would not be offended always in a high strain .of.praise- and estimation, Bus
at him for saying that be did not feel himself entitled he had not understood that Lord Gambier took any
to put his character and experience against those of of the merit of the achievement. He had not, ata, •
the majority, of his profession. proached the French fleet nearer than seven
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that on the simple Ministers had praised Lord Gambier for his discre•
question, Whether the Minutes 4hould be produced tion ; he hoped they had not intended this instance in
or not ?—he should have no hesitation in saying they their enumeration of its proofs. It became the House
should, in order to see whether what had been done to be cautiotts_of the honours which were 'entrus..
was deserving the Thanks of the House. Highly as ted to their distribution. They had now exhausted
he thought of the gallantry of the Noble Lord, he all but their last, their single and summary gift of the
deemed the Admiralty wrong in having appointed Peerage. But the Noble Lord near him (Lord Cod).
him to that particular command ; because there were rane) ought to be heard; his judgment and charac-
many Officers in the fleet who were his seniors, who ter, his signal gallantry and signal honours, deserved
be thought (without meaning any disparagement of the high attention of the House. Even his feelings,_
the Noble Lord) would have executed it as ably as led as they were perhaps astray by an excess of
he did. The Honourable Gentleman who spoke strength and sensibility, deserved all the attention
last had said the Noble Lord had, when called on for which could be paid to them.
his reasons for dissenting from the Vote of Thanks, Mr. LYT I'LETON felt himself called on to ex.;
given the Admiralty a wrong answer. He thought plain his former opinion. He had reminded the:
indeed he had ; for, as a Member of the House of House of a precedent for the revision of Courts Mar-
Commons, the Noble Lord should have refused to tial ; but in stating this fact, he merely wished to
give them any answer. In the next place, he thought bring a new authority to the privileges of that As-
the Admiralty should not in consequence have or- sembly. He conceived that a Naval Court was not,
dered a COurt Martial ; for they had already access in the full sense of the word, definitive. In the mi-
to the log-book of the fleet to which the Noble Lord litary law, an appeal lay from a Court Martial to his
referred, and so far approved Lord Gambier's con- Majesty's Courts at Westminster. He concluded that
duct as to give notice of a motion for a vote of thanks, there must be found a similar check on a Court of
The Honourable Officer who spoke from underthe gal- Naval Officers. In voting for the Minister, he pledged
lery (Sir C. Hamilton) had, however, put the House himself to nothing; he had not yet found materials
in a very strange situation, for he hadinformed them for his opinion,- and he was satisfied to pause till he
that the Noble Lord (Cochrane) gave orders to some had found them.
young men who commanded fireships, and that some Captain BERESFORD made a few observations
obeyed, and others disobeyed them. The Hon. Offi- on what had fallen from Lord Cochrane, respecting
cer said further, that those who disobeyed had been the comparative fidelity of the log-books produced on
promoted by the Admiralty ; while those who obey. the Trial.
ed had been refused promotion. If this were the The question was now called for; and, upon a dir
case, what was become of the discipline of the Navy ?. vision, there appeared—For the Amendment 171,a-
He owned he was much surprised at the information; Against it 19—Majority against Lord Cochrane's
and concluded by saying, that he should vote for the Motion, 142.
motion of the Noble Lord. I THANKS TO LORD GAMBIER.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER

in justification cf

Sir C. HAMILTO, explained,
the discipline of the Navy. I rose to propose a vote of thanks to Lord Gambier for
Mr. ROSE said, that be understood whenever an ; his eminent services in destroying the French fleet irt
officer of a fire-ship destroyed a ship of the enemy, he i Basque Roads. The Right Honourable Gentleman
was always promoted.
I conceived it would be unnecessary for him to take up
Mr. PONSONBY could not agree to the motion the time of the House in detailing the services which
of the Noble Lord ; he felt all respect for his gallan- I the Noble Lord had performed, as from the nature of
try, for his zeal, for the motives under which he I the debate which had just concluded, they were in
brought forward the measure; but it contained a vio-lpossession of every information they could desire.-Lr
lation of solemn and recognised principles—it was IHe might fairly anticipate that the House having
opposed by all that was sacred and high in the nature I judged it inexpedient to produce the minutes of the
of national justice. Lord Gambier had been tried by } Court Martial, would not be anxious to listen to any
a competent tribunal—he had been acquitted—and it arguments in suppott of the motion which he was
was not consistent with the spirit of the British law that about to submit. It had however been stated by
he should a second time, undergo trial on the same some Gentlemen that the nature of the service was
cause. Let the case of a culprit be as weighty as it not such as to justify the House to vote its thanks to
was possible to conceive—even the murder of the , the Noble Lord. When however the nature of that
King—and let him be once acquitted, no new trial service was known and considered, it was impossible
could affect that man, though the strongest new evi- that the House could come to any other conclusion
dence of his guilt might start up. So sacred is the than a vote of thanks. The conduct of Lord Gambier
feeling of justice. But, if the Noble Lord's opinion on that occasion was so eminent, that even those who
were to be acted upon, the most serious detriment, t were disposed to object to thanks being voted on or.
because the most alarming insecurity, might arise to dinary occasions, and who grounded themselves on
naval and military men. They would have no tribu- precedent, would not find any for withholding them
nit to which they could look up with confidence.— from Commanders in Chief when they had achieved
The House had of course a power superior to all other any great service. The sentence of the very Court
decision—a power, for instance, to punish her judges. Martial was proof that the service was performed
It punished them in the case of ship money, and in in such a manner as to deserve thanks ; he had not
other cases—but he could not conceive that 12 men, merely superintended the enterprise, but had, as the
such as composed the Court on Lord Gambier—offs- sentence affirmed, conducted it with regard to the
cers of known bravery and honour—could intentio- interest of the State, and with peculiar zeal.. The
nally give an erroneous and partial judgment. In etecution of the service deserved, therefore, peculiar
saying this, he should however reserve his opinion to notice, and he would shortly detain the House by
a farther progress of the debate, on the propriety of stating some of the circumstanced attending the ac.
voting the Thanks to Lord Gambier. complishment of it. The French fleet had escaped
Lord COCHRANE stated, that in consequence from Brest on the 23d March ; they were seen by
of some conversation which had occurred with some Admiral Stopford, who had at that time three sail of
Members of the Admiralty Board, it had been known the line and some small frigates in Basque Roads.
that he would resist the vote of thanks. He had then The French fleet consisted of eight sail of the line,
received the letter which had been already noticed in and several frigates. Admiral Stopford gave the
the debate. His answer to it was—that one which signal that the enemy had escaped, and proceeded to
ought to have been given : he entered into no perso- blockade ttrem with his small force, until he was
nal statement ;he simply referred to his 16g-book.— I joined by four sail more. The Rochefort squadron,
There was no trick, no evasion in that reference. consisting of three ships of the line, having joined the
The log-book contained all the documents that were Brest fleet, continued
12to be blockaded ben y these sev
rd Gam.
en
applicable, or ought to be brought forward. (Hole sail until the Ilth r th of April, wh Lo
arrived, made those arrangements for
his Lordship read a long extract from the log-book). bier having
It had been asserted, that he ought to have come for.. the attack, which was begun by the Mediator, Captain
Wooldridge. There were some circumstances which
ward to prosecute : that he ought to have made his
he must mention with respect to this galant Officer,
charge boldly, and thrown himself before the country
which the House would be glad to hear, as they
as the author of the charge. But he was not to be
dictated to; he felt the seriousness of the effect, if reflected the greatest credit upon the gallantry of
that meritorious Officer. This heavy fin-ship
urged by him ; he knew the responsibility which it
would draw downi he thought of Admiral Byng.— having been prepared,and the crew dismissed, the only
[Here the Noble Lord entered into a series of obser- persons remaining on board were Capt. Wooldridge,
nations on the nature of the manceuvres in Basque the Lieutenant, and the gunner. When the ship ex.
Roads.] He proceeded to say, that he had imploded the fate of these gallant men were, that the
posed a great duty and a great hazard on himself ; , Captain and Lieutenant escaped with their lives, but
but he felt himself adequate to both. His own cha-1 the Gunner was blown to pieces.—(Hear, hear.)—
racrer was involved. His conduct had even been The attack being commenced on the night of the
impeached ; but he was willing to suffer all things, 12th successfully, was followed up the next day by
the extreme of contempt and scorn, expulsion from the Noble Lord with peculiar gallantry • the copse.
that House, and infamy through the world, if he did quence was, that no less than three sail of the line
and a 50-gun ship were completely destroyed. The
not substantiate the facts which he was then pledged
House would not be disposed, he trusted, to refuse
to lay before them. Evidence had been brought to I
its thanks for services when performed under such
disprove his testimony : he had wished to disprove
great peril and risk, exposed to the enemies own
that evidence ; but permission had been refused him.
There were some Officers, whose conduct (Here Mr. batteries, and with other advantages, which in bar.
Yorke called to order. It was unfair and unusual in : hour they could bring for the protection of their
that House, he said, to bring forward charges against i own Ye tsels. It was an enterprise of great and pecu.
those who were not present, either by themselves or liar hazard and difficulty. The result had been
highly injurious to the enemy, and had the effect of
their friends. He put it to the Noble Lord's magnani,
not only disabling, but of removing the enemy's whole
miry, if not to his justice, to consider the nature of his
squadron from the campaign. Was not that an ob.
present proceeding.) His Lordship resumed, and after
some observations, concluded by saying, that the . ject of great magnitude ? The fleet, no doubt, was
. destined to perform some great operations, which this
whole affair was singularly dark ; was still involved
in mystery ; and that its proceedings, when fully de.l service had rendered them not only incapable of acs
dared, would strike the country with terror. complishing, but had entirely annihilated-them. -Of
Mr. TIERNEY felt it wrong to disturb the past this service in which Lord Gambier had- been em.
acts of justice. He could not persuade himself to , ployed and had so actively executed, the utmost at.
suspect any touch of partiality in the tribunal which i tenuon had been paid to the interests of the State—
tried Lord Gambier. But the question was not of not more than 20 lives had been lost, and not more •
the Noble Lord's ineocence, but of his reward. The I than SO or 40 wounded—this was the extent of the
honours of the House were high things—dear and loss--(Hear; hear.) - The Right Hon. Gentlemois
valuable ; but dear only because they implied merit concluded withhanks
of moving—
.. .1 hal the i t..lb House be gins to Admiral Lent
i Gambier,
service,
theice zinealteluattancznt, ability, and arteinion to his
r br.whilh
the
cret,lch
fret
wife eke
the enetnyorinßasque-roadee
ba ,
—valuable only because even that merit must be rare.
M
lrntaotioi
tkele
wn
Honour* too frequently bestowed, lost their value
and became signs of nothing but the weakness which I '
laeiehed them, or the worthlessness on' which they j tea" were driven askarewstetly destroyed, sad disabled *pi-
were to be thrown away. In this case there was no' service." __
apparent service worthy of their thanks. He would I Load COCHRMM warned the House, that even
is verdict was not
vote for the minutes, but in his vote was to be undo. elusive upo n character that ;
• there was auother teibunal to Iliiiich even that Haase

t his ...Hy, .-J• - -
He of more not having been accomplished, vi
He to the NoblF Lord who had submitted tb
11 he tion. He WAS prepared to prove, that in si
was Officers who' had not obeyed the Noble
it but rune) were promoted, and those who
Mc_ attended to his signals were passed over