Star.
London, England, 1816-03-13 00:00:00

raoreriTY TAX.

Earl GIIEY presented a Petition from the Ward
of Glenda], in Northumberland, against the Property
Tax. The Petition, as toe Noble Lord stated, was
signed most numerously by considerable' Landholders
and others interested in the agricultural and conamer-
-641 prosperity if the country. They strongly depre•
sated a renewal, under any modifications whatever,
of a tax, the operation of which they regarded as be.
ing not only oppressive and vexatious, but h stile to
the freedom and independence of British subjects.a.-
The exigencies of the State, whatever they might be
found to b ought, in t;;eir opinion, to be supplied
by far arerent means than such as were calculated
to support, in time of peace, an immense and over-
grown Military establisament, dangerous at once to
the einstitution, and ruinous to the finances. The
Petition concluded with recommending, in humble
and becoming terms, a system of strict and whole-
Wale economy.
The Earl of CARNA RVON presented a Petition
from the County of Somerset against the Property
Tax. It was signed by the Gentlemen, Clergy, Free- •
holders, and others, and while it suggested the means
of a useful economy in the administration of the pub-
lic finances, lamented the unnecessary and danp,;erons
extent to which our military establishment was pro.
posed to be brought, an establistrinent of a nature
widely different from. what they had been prepared ,
to expect, after the triomp:tent success of a cnnrv. of
25 years, diming which trey, in common with their
countrymen at large, had cheerfully contributed to
the public demands.

L;nrd liOLLAND ;ref ented a Petition iron the
Q.nnity of Warwick sittnA by the Fiet.holders and
atheist against the Property Tax. the it':."Wel of •
t Bich; under any modaticAtions, they stroll? ly de.
precazet!, 'atni humbly reconimenJed measurei
strict econonsy, especially in reference to unnecessary
places and penbions,

• - ,
The Maiquis of LANSDOWNE presented a Pe..
skim. to cite arias .elfeot. Oulu ChiPPenhassis ja
Wiltshire.

All these Petitions were se►erally ordered to lie oft
;he 1 Able.

STATE OF THE SIATInN.

The Duke of BEDFORD rose and expressed his
deep regret at the accident of personal infirmity
which on 'l'llursdey last had• prevented his proceed-
ing on the important husine,s for which he had soli-
cited the attention of their L )rd.hips, and on which
he then presumed to claim the indulgence Of the
House. He could most solemnly assume their Lord-
ships, that nothing but a strict and conscientious
sense of his duty could have induced him to wider-
take a task for which there were so many Noble.
Lords about him so much more competent ciao
self. He was led to the course which he was taking
by a serious reflection on the condition in which the
country was placed, on the enormous and most ex-
traordinary extent of the military peace establish—
ment which had been proposed, on the unprecedented
burdens to which the people bad been subjected, and
on the general distress of the country. His wish Was
to induce the House to go into a Committee. It
would be expedient there to inquire whether the pro.
digious military establishment which had been pro.
posed was really necessary or not. Whatever might
be deemed requisite, it was clear to every rational
and reflecting man, that considerable teductions
ought to take place in all the departments, a
view to that system of economy, without which it
was impossible fur the public affairs to prc coed. If
their Lordships looked to the present state of Europe
generally, they would find in every view of it abut.
dent reason for the policy which he suggested. That
prospect, more strongly than at any twiner period,
recommended such measures, and if his Majesty's
Ministers, with such a state of things before them,
and with the recollection of what ought previously
to have been impressed on their minds, had not made
adequate use of means so largely in their power, they
were deeply responsible to the country for their =is.
sions •or mismanagement. It had been said by.a
French writer, who was •adverting to the power and
the acts of Louis XIV. that the love of military
power was the, disease of Sovereigns; happily that
disease had not yet reached -England, and it would
be alarming to think, and horrible to apprehend that?
by any fatality, it should ever reach us, or that
Great Britain should be subjected to a military Go.
vernment. He could not, however, be free from
alarm in contemplating the distribution which had
bean made of the military force, 25,000 men placed
in Great Britein, the same number allotted to Ire.
land, and thirty thousand quartered in France. He
would ask whether such an enormous force was really, .
at the present . time, wanted for any wholesome or
national puipose t He would farther inquire, *he.
ther the troops assigned to Gibraltar and the other .

I

-777,71 --7•77.7"---

{
.. -

ganisons abroad, were necessary. He could em re-
frain from again recurring to Ireland, and he would
ask, by what fatal necessity the present conditioe of'
that countrrhad been brouoht -what it was He
would, indeed, generally observe, that Ireland had
be is Amon uniformly mated too much like a con-
quered country, red her attachment sought to be
gained by farce or arms rather than . by persuasion
and mild cencitiation. He had entertained s hope,
that some allusion would be made is the Speech from
the Tiiroce t the people and the state of Irelands
and was deeply disappointed in finding the subject
to be wholly overlooked ; and there was reason to
fear, that in the minds of -some persons the Irish na-
tion-eras deemed unlit to be admitted to the tree and
full enjoyment of the privileges which were the pride
of Englishmen. If any such sentiments were really
entertained, it was time for the error to be corrected,
for the people of. Ireland had shown that whatever
were their grievances, or bow severely. soever they
had felt them, they knew bow to approach the Legis-
latlre with submissive dignity. In defence of the
measure of siatinning so many troops in Ireland, it
had been urged, that they were required to support
the Civil Magistrates. He could not think that was
really the case, nor could he relish the thought trf
making parish constables of soldiers. He thought
such an application of the soldiery not calculated to
promote the proper ends of their institution, but on•
the contrary, to debase their moral character, and
unfit them from their better duties. He earnestly
implored their Lordships to take a full and constitu-
tional view of the question, and to consider how far
it wonlil be safe for the country and all which they
held dear, to suffer so large a military establishment
as that which was proposed to take place. To the
military prowe;s and the military character of the
country, he must cheerfully contribute his unreserved
eulogium. That character had long heels eminently
sustained on other plains as well as at Waterloo,
though perhaps on none more conspicuously. But
he could not help deprecating that excess of admire.
lion or rather that madness which would confound
the seasons of wir and peace in reference to military
establishments. In the sentiments which he sustained,
he felt himself fortified by the opinions of a late very
eminent person, Mr. Burke, who in referring to the
power and proceedings of Louis XIV. observed that
it was only upheld by a species of force, which was
always dangerous to civil liberty, and could not too
vigilantly be guarded against by any State which had
the least enjoyment of that invaluable blessing. His
• Grlee next adverted to the taxes, the amount of
which had, according to the statement of a Noble
Friend, exceeded one half of the lauded and commer-
cial capital of the country. That was an awful and ill*
nsesideus condition in which the nation was placed, and
extended indeed to the twitter altraot the public means.
That was a tact which could not be controverted by
any fallacious statements of the Chancellor of the
Esltequer, who from one end of Great Britain to
the other, would find the delusioos of Isis system ex-
posed. The Property Tax was every where and by
all men reprobated ; and though a precedent for such
a tax did certainly exist in the time of Henry IV.
yet it was with a pointed and strict provision, appli.
..cable to the peculiar emergency of the occasion, and
precluding any recurrence to such a measure after-
wards on any pretext whatever ; and so abhorrent
was the principle of that tax to our ancestors, even
in that vary age, before the general principles of
pubic liberty v. ere fully or steadily established, that,
an the motion of Sir Thomas Walsinghane, the re-
cord of the Act was publicly burnt, in order to mark
the general feeling concerning it, and to prevent, if
possible, its being ever after brought forward as a
precedent. Would their Lordships have it supposed,
that Our ancestors trete mote jealous pf the Consti-
tution, and tenacious of its provisions than we were?
Upon the internal distresses of the country it was,
needless fur him to expatiate, as they were telt on all
sides, and universally by all ranks, classes, and de.
striptions of people. Of the lands, immense tracks
bad beta dooms out of cultivation. In Norfolk,
particularly, to his own knowledge, lands which had
let at five and at three pounds an acre, had been
thrown up, and were afterwards refused rent free.—
The gaols universally were crowded with insolvent
debtors. Nor was the evil confined to the cultivators
of the soil, it extended to all the other classes of so-
ciety, and was deeply felt by the Clergy themselves,
especially in their tithes, as the Right Reverend Pre.
lates could testify. Having mentioned tithes, he
would once more recur to the state of Ireland. The
Catholic question was one which was doubtless the
source of abundant discontent, and called for the
most serious and dispassionate consideration. It was
indeed a question which had formerly engaged his
deep attention but be had Dever heard of any ade.
pine or competent plan as a remedy. But surely it
was highly proper to go into inquiry on the subject.
The agricultural state of Ireland too was an impor.
tantand pressing consideration. It was tar from his
desire to embarrass Administration. That idea he
utterly disclaimed, 'as tare that he should be ashamed
of. His wish was, that Government should have
free scope, but that Parliament should be duly vigi-
lant in 'superintending their proceedings, and in the
expression of that desire, he only accorded with the
Noble Earl opposite at the head of his Majesty's
Councils, who hid stated, in general reference to the
subject which he had touched on, that twenty wished
for a fair, calm, and dispassionate inquiry. The
importance of the question could not be disputed.—
He was only desirous to revert to the practice of our
ancestors. With that view, he must serge the nem,
sity of obs, reins the strictest eConuanyi-in order to
Tc I lc ve the country from a burden of taxation, under
which it else must sink. The Noble Duke coucluded
'with " That the House resolve itself into a
Committee tur taking into consideration the state of
the nation."
The Duke of SUSSEX rose to sceend the motion.
His Royal Hr6liness observed, that after the able
manner in which the Noble Duke who moved the
question had set forth the objects of it, and consider-
ing the. very able assistants With whom he was aided
And unfounded, it. would naturally appear supetflu.
anti in him to any thing more than give a silent
vote in tan= of opinions, with' the troth and pro.
prioty of which he completely accorded. But there
iveie two points on which ha was desirous to offer his
distinct • opinion, namely, our external connexions,.
and the internal coedit* of the country. * Upon
host two leans and Ii topiFs it was hem.

eery to pay minute and *Meat. attention. to prevent
ner falling into partial ate, mistaken result'!" The
various eetitions *phut the Property Tax were fully
sufficient to sinew the agitation which prevailed in the
public mind, and k couldinot be denied that it was
of deep importance that the public mind should be
tranqoillised, that Public which bad 'hewn, during
a long aid unexampkd struggle, that it could meet
any danger with courage, and sustain any labours
and privations wit:4;km*. There had been through-
out the country d the whole of a long protracted
war, but one sentiment, thatOtvarious and combined
patriotism. But, at tip close of such a war, it was
natural that, as the burdens had been great, the ne-
cessity of conduit* them ought to be nicely in-
quired into. qr. the subject of the taxes, there
must, of course, -he a variety of opinions. But these
was no doubt with most people that when the war
was closed, the peculiar expenses of the war were also
to end. It was not by military achievements,
howsoever splendid they might be, it was not by
glory or vanity that the character and prosperity of
Great Britain was to be maintained. Whatever might
be the brilliancy of: the battle of Waterloo, the ques-
tion for theirisorAithips, and for the country to con.
*der was, whether, by the event of that battle, pub-
lic security, permanent peace, and prosperity of trade
and commerce were secured ? it behoved their
Lordships to look to the 'suite of the country at the
tiini of the Peace of Amiens and since, when the
tnealures ef Bonaparte had induced on the side of
this country the Orders in Council. Their Lordships
would find, on a comparison between those times,
that much more-had been lost than gained by our
commerce by the transfer which bad been made of
the colonies to the former possessors of them. He
much douoted whether any commercial arrangements
which could be made would amount to an adequate
compensation for the surrender of those colonies.—
It had been proved, by sad experience, that in foreign
markets, whatever might he the acknowleged curl-
knee, or general superiority of our manufactures,
they were unable to maintain a hopel ul competition
with the manufacturers of the Continent ; some of
which were said to equal our own ; many to come
near; and, on the whole, in point of price, to be sold
.50 per cent. under the average rate of English goods.
Noble Lords must feel the situation in which British
manufactures must be placed by such a comparison.
He should next advert to the Army, and call the at.
tention of the House to the state of peace in which:
this country stood, especially in relation to France. •
When peace was signed in France, he would not say
that the King was actually a prisoner, but certainly
his Majesty teas surrounded by 150,000 foreign
troops. He would have their Lordships pause in
forming their opinion of a Government so circum-
stanced as that of France was at that time; would
it not (said his Royal Highness) be naturally sup-
posed that a Sovereign called upon in such a case to
sign a treaty was nut to be regarded as a free agent,
but rather that he acted on the side of foreigners
against the nation? The extension of the military
establishment he could by no means approve of. If
a military force was to be maintained, let it be for
our own protection, and not to keep in action that
system which Bonaparte had created, which Europe'
had telt the evil of, and of which this country had
loudly and justly complained. If the military force
was to be kept op in time of peace, the Marines were
that species of force which he would be inclined to
adopt, because they were always ready to be applied,
to the purpose of our natural pr section. In that
opinion he was fortified and sustained by that of the
great Lord Chatham, who had always maintained
that the natural and efficacious strength of the coun-
try depended on our insular situation, :at the more
apart we were from foreign politics th.. stronger we
were, and the mote able to render efficient aid to
either contending party, who. in such case, would
court our alliance, while they would be, in a great
measure, indifferent to it, if actively or officiously
proffered by us. . There was no one who thought
more highly than he did of the excellent discipline
and admirable services of the army, but he could
not view, without a constitutional jealousy. so large
a standing force as that which Ministers had proposed
for our peace establishment. He could not forget
that men trained up, he meant of course the common
men long ie....led to military occupations, wonld sel-
dom be inclined to return to quiet and industrious
habits. He would, with the Noble Duke who made
the motion, disclaim all desire to obstruct or embar-
rass the proceedings of his Majesty's Government ;
but he could not help thus publicly declaring his op-
position to measures not, in his opinion, analogous to
tile Constitution. He must add, that he could not
without deep cencern observe, that while the Allied
Powers declared their unanimous abhorrence of the
Slave Trade, they were absolving their subjects in
many instances of the oaths of allegiance, not for the
purpose of freedom, but for extending and confirming
their slavery. His Royal Highness concluded with
giving his hearty support to tile motion.
The Earl of ABERDEEN opposed the motion,
as uncalled for by any one circumstance connected
with the present situation of the country; and as to
the military establishment, it was necessary in the
present state of Europe. He could not see any dan-
ger in a constitutional point of view that could pos-
sibly arise from keeping up this force. In the pre-
sent altered condition of the world, when a freedom
of thinking and of discussion existed every where,
and particularly in ibis kingdom; when the human
intellect was improved, and when public opinion was
so widely circulated, there was no reason to fear that
any army would ever make encroachments on public
liberty. The great object which all had in view at
this tune was, the preservation of peace in Europe ;
how far that object was to be accomplished must de-
paid on the internal state of Franee,and an intimate
union between the great towers of Europe. It was
impossible not to look with some anxiety at the state
of France in particular. Napoleon was, indeed, in
oar power ; but that dangerous power which had up.
held hind still existed in France. where there was the
same desperate spirit, and the same love of disorder
and rapine as bad prevailed there for several years:
Indeed, Esrope might still be. Considered as covered
with armed men. In such a state of things it surely
eras not fit that we should disarm. If Europe were
to remain permanently at peace it must depend upon
the preponderating influence of Great Britain; and
was it not fit, therefore, that we should possess the
meuns of preserving this influence I As to the ob-
served= of an illustrious Personage, that. we Ought

is separate ourselves *baptise. froth 4.oentinent.
ane-depend en a navy for dint defence, he iiest
serve, that in the best of times it was the policy of
this country to maintain a military psedosuinettee on
the Continent. it was clear that the balance of power
in Europe was essentially restored, and it was the
duty as ►ell as the gloiy of England that she should
assist in preserving it. This was the
.great object of
all our wishes, and there was no time when it could
be accomplished with greater effect than at the pre.
seat moment. Among all the circumstances attend•
ing our situation, none was more glorious than the
character we had acquired on the Continent by our
courage, our energy, and our moderation. Now jus-
tice itself was armed, ant it we were to effect any
thing by our influence and our Justice, we must be
aimed with sufficient power to enable us to do so.—
He therefore conceived, that it would be the greatest
possible proof of weakness to wesken this power by
breaking up au army which might be wanted on
some unforeseen emergency. •He wished the Noble
Lord to consider the immense extent. of empire pos.
sessed by this country, and it would appear, that die
appropriation of this force was not unreasonable or
improper. The Noble Duke argued as if this force
o,as to be p7rmatient ; but chat was not the fact; fur 1
the force would not be• kept up longer than the neces-
sity of the case required. With respect to the forces
intended to be kept up in Irelsnd, he thought that
in the present state of that country it was necessary;
at the same time he I:oped measures would be taken
to ameliorate the condition of the Irish people by dif-
fusing instruction and encouraging industry among
them.

The Earl of LIMERICK thought it would have
been proper in discussing this sul,j,ct, to abstain, as
much as possible, from any thing relating to Ireland.
He mast however observe, as the stibj::ct had been
mentioned, that the misfortunes of that country had
'not arisen from the miscontuct of any Administra-
tion, but had grown out of circumstances that exist-
ed from ages. Lirland was not to be considered as
a conquered country ; . if, however, it was necessary
to protect the loyal and well-affected against the out-
rages of depredators and rebels, in Gnu's name, let
kbe called a conquered country. With respect to
what was called Catholic Emancipation, the refusal
to grant it had nothing to do with the discontents of
Ireland. It would be a libel on the great body of
the Cutholics to suppose any such thing. The dis-
contents of Ireland were fomented—hot by those
respectable persons, but by villains, who, in the
sririt that had given rise to the late rebellion. en.
deavoured by all kinds ot artifices to excite a general;
sentiment ot hostility towards the Government.—
There did, however, exist in-Ireland a great many
grievances, for which he knew not how an immediate
remedy could be aepliel The laws respecting
illicit distillation were productive of very great evil.
He had known the cattle of unfortunate peasants,
who had taken no part in those offences against the
revenue, driven away and sold by public auction, in
order to recover the pemtlties ir'flicted by law on
districts where private distillation had been carried
on ; but with which distiilaiion they had nothing to
do whatever. It might, indeed, be asked, why did
not those persons diicover the private distillation ?
The reason was, that the punishment of cb.ath await-
ed any man who made such discovery, tor assassina-
tion must have been the consequence. The manner
in which Tithes were collected in Ireland was an.
other great source of public discontent. The evil
was more severely felt there than in any other
country, because there was no settled system on the
subject, and the people had to pay a double propor.'
tion of taxes, under the name of tithes. With regard
to agricultural prosperity, it was, at this time, in a
complete state of abandonment. Whole tracks of
land were thrown upon the hands of the owners,
who could not cultivate them from a want of the
means. It was necessary to look deeper than per-
snns were in the habit of doing into the causes of the
evils that afflicted this ill-used country. The fault
originated not in any Ministry, but had existed for
hundreds of years. He could state. as a matter of
certainty, that the period of the Revolution in 1688,
so auspicious to the lib, rty and happiness of Eng.
land, was a period of eel; of degradation, and pa-
ver/ty to Ireland, which at the time became a scene
of civil war, of famine, and oppression. The country
fell completely into contempt with the English Go-
vernment, and was ruled over by a few Squires, who
abused their power in every possible way. In the
reign of George L it was asserted, that England had
a right to make laws for Ireland. At a subsequent
period, in the year 1782, when that island was in
danger of invasion, the people were left to defend
themselves, just as the ancient Britons had been left
by the Romans ; but the people took up arms, and
although French Beets were off their coasts, not a
Frenchman dared .to set his foot on the land.—
(Hear, hear.)—These people afterwards demanded
'certain commercial rights, which hasl been long
withheld, but which sere thou granted to them by
Great Britain. After that a rebellion broke out,
and the Irish people were obliged to have rectwrse
:o an union with Great Britain. In doing this the
Gentlemen of Ireland made very great sacrifices—
they sacrificed their importance, and they had since
felt the effects of it in their prcperty. Some years
ago the debt of Ireland did not amount to a single
million, now the debt was so great that the annual
interest absorbed nearly the whole revenue of the
country. These pressures had driven away a great
part of the population of the cnuntry. The Grand
Juries of Ireland constituted a great engine of op-
pression, inasmuch as they assumed the power of
imposing heavy taxes, which the unfortunate pea-
sants were always obliged to pay. He Loped that
many of these things would be attended to. He
hoped that there would be a law to insist on the
residence of the superior and inferior Clergy in their
respective districts, as one means of instructing and
civilising the people. If these things were attended
to, he could assure their Lordships, that they might
look up to Ireland as their best bulwark. The
present Administration of tie Government in Ire-
land was entitled to his highest praise; the rulers
of that country had shewn every possible attention
Ito the wants of the people, and exhibited the rigo-
rous justice tempered with mercy. On the whole,
.he conceived that the causes of the calamities which
affected this country were so remote, that they could
not be removed by any casual interference uscd upon
the spur of the moment.
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM asked, if, after

-

his Noble Friend, s', i'" ti
the eloquent erpotltion that hid jest le.e.s 5,;,,
the state of Ireland by
any man who would sav, then 4TI ingliir; 4:1;lt.:141
to be entered into respecting the state of tlli',. it
try ? It was, as his Noble Friend had tells; 4‘.--'l.
ailnl-dowupdoallutdhoeppaumsthoseridtyns,tfiotih)e; and,
stateme ferntseth;t:r.._ll46.4.4
ships had just heard, he clic(' on them in ~;t,i'llt.
a mature and deliberate investigation
state of Ireland. It was, perhaps. e„,. _ --in ei
yes corn
mat kat
it had beets thought necessary to Adept rnea
tion means
o ti.,mt
dawn the turbulence of Ireland; but that nt.3611teas at_
sort which proved the necessity of making An ~,, q*
riot bet
atseee die different
a uunt
year 1782 it was manifest, that the Iris:t le D',,:c
is order
aomrdeeiriutto
time of war protected themselves; and seasn'ilt-,,''
might rot
- -/14447.:
contended, that it was necessary tr) seed a es-i.."u-
force to protect the Government against
till,. ~,in
lation ? If ever there was a moment for enei:4,
,‘,'
ever there was a moment when enquiry credit -LI
harm, and might du much good, it was the D ~,--,":
and therefore a moment mink not to be 10,, ;„":""`i i
tigating the real state of thole p. flee. i ""I.'
.e Nov..
Marquis 'next alluded to the niiiitary est,b,ii,"
' which was wholly inconsistent n !iii 4 pet inj 0-1 I."rnt
Tee question of the military estabiislobees at,P.t.
all mint's. There appeared ns it all the I
.atitnrs (If
a system that tended to a miiitary despi,tisti• Wier
necessity, Ile asked, was ,',ere I:,r this vadm,
army ? Where was the C' entry to he ark,o64 4
this standing army ? There were no enetties,nt br
but we were to defend the
.cou:ory agenstee4"
pnlation at hnme. Was due nit a mete teSIDIA 14"
..4
he competent to that porpf:st- ? It had been i 4,1 tilt
the increased nrnl)er of our Co;(.nirs required .ii i'il
ii
creased standing Army. I. ti c-e Colonies sele tit" :
horn the enemy, they c, old n t be pro,erly 50...
.l
derei as objects nf defuse,. ‘Vliat were We to do*i
t!vse against ? What danger was there of any attack
against them on t 1 e pa: tot the enem...? %timid t
be said, that this increased military f-rce sai in.
tended to resist the tut bulence (.1 the blacks? %el,
it this was the case, he rejoiced more if a . -vet in 1•4;
abolition of the SI me Trade : 'or that ..TA:tsiti inn
a benefit to the blanks in the C.foutirs—.l3-ai ' thus he
was to be told, that in propertinn as We .:Lnesed
beeefits on these blacks, su shut; el 'se Miiii.tais i
1 age force to keep them in t•riLr. It was said do
our newly-acquired islands in the Meditttnaneits re.
quired large military gat risons. 1 ii: peen, of wee
islands, it WAS said, were to be blessed win tie
English Constitution, and was :11:s the way ta pre
them the blessing, to send a he,v4y o' military to keep
them in subjection ? His Lerthiiip next adv.:mini '
the troops intended to be seat to Indii, :index nee ,
mons expenses incurred by the war ii that part d
the world. He couid not see any necessity tur tend.
mg
a great force to that country, and V.e only objst.
I could be, that ot erecting a military Goveratant
Ithroughout every part of the empire. The erring
of our intended peace establishment was so great elat
i it exceeded the establisiment of every year of se up
I to the Peace of Amiens. In the next place, he te-uid
nsk if our finances could enable us to bear sn large AI
establishment ? The whole expenses of the ccu,ltrr,
i %rids this establishment, wo:ild be thirty when,_.
1 with the present revenue, 41,er the interest was paid,
our surplus revenue would amt.w.t to no more !leis
ten millions ; and he asked 11,.s wooid t!ar ~her '2O
millions be raised I In the Speech from the Throne
economy was recommended to the country, and was
this intended expenditure a proof cl economy! ea
far from any economy having taken dlacc the salaries
of certeia officers were increased ; the Civil 'Alva
in arrear, and the salary of £4o' .(J .t year ;mai to Le
Secretary of the Admiralty cluing war, teas to be
. continued ; ss hereas, it should fly be A 2500 in time
of peace. All these things did, more than era,
make enquiry necessary.
The Earl of I 3 LESSINGTON defended the peace
establishment—not as a permanent, but as a temp
rary establishment, which he conc,ived the present
state of Europe rendered absolutely necessity. The
Militia would not answer the purpose of any sadden
emergency, because they cold,/ not be kept up in
time of peace ; and before they could be called vita
great deal of mischief might take place, in case any
unforeseen danger should arise. He denied the as-
sertion that Ireland was a conquered country ; and.
'the military occupation of Ireland promoted theta.-
culation of wealth, and enabled the farmer to get
better price for his produce. The great caose ot the
evils of Ireland arose out of the want of capital, aid
the dread of English capitalists settling si.ere from
circumstances which arose out of t!!e rebellion. He
fully agreed that the agricultural interests of the whole
kingdom were greatly distressed, and he hoped some
effectual remedy would soon be adopted to allenax
the miseries of the people
Lail BATHURST could not see any ground fat
a motion of this kind, winch void not produce any
practical good t. but, on the contrary, must goad. 1
embarrass the operatons of the Government. 11 the
conduct of Ministers was disapproved of, the amt.
regular proceeding would be to move an Mavens •
the House for their dismissal. The ,military 'stab'
lishment was to be discussed on Friday, and dirty
fore he saw no occasion for an enquiry now on that
subject, and on that account he would not then go
into the question of the army : he would merely 117, •
that every year the principle of keeping up a standing
army in the time of peace was recogitised as a lota'
sure necessary to keep up the balance of powtr rs
Europe. As to our expenditure, no cmapat ison could
be made between the present and former times..—
(Hear, hear.) If the whole army were now to be
i
disbanded—if a red coat was not to be aced n the
country, still the expenditure in pensions and Per"!
belonging to the raitita: y establishment wou:a nee
the whole expenditure of Lord Chatham's war. it rte
state of Ireland called for inquiry, then, let there be a
specific motion made for an inquiry to that etiect • act
let it not be mixed with any motion for goingino
the state of the nation. There was no plan bid eosin
as to the measures to he discussed in case this.Cem-
rnittee was entered into. The question of lit/its
was one of so difficult and intricate a nature, that i
could furnish no just ground for an inquiry of i.
kind. Hitherto forty thousand men had beial 111,:111.
tented in Ireland for the last ten years; and he .:b.ea
if it was too much at this time to keep up twenty-hat
thousand men there ? On the subject of the Agnew;
tural distresses of the country, which fie by no mean
at
meant to under-rate, he could net but observe, th
at
1 ...
the occurrence was not at all singular, but the Iglu

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