Star.
London, England, 1818-05-08 00:00:00

1,;•-rt,

sier=' st
dation, -
idolatrous. He shoidLtininshm t
measure earlier in the bat be •
sive it might interfere with the usual
tholie-ernancipation. That subject. 1
would not be debated this yew, and he hadtbarefeas
determined to bring this question before the Hones
He then read the declaration traosubeteotle.
don, and observed, that no Protestant esnisi
refuse his assent to it, yet it was not right to dtaimei
that it should be made where no trot was 'wised
by the State—..(iear, hear.) It might be very well
the time the Act was passed, because the
to the throne was known to be a Catholic ;
was no danger of this kind now. As to the •
of the Roman Catholics idolatrous, he thought
that would not be minnow, and quoted the
opinion-of several Bishops,who ha declared shortly
after the Pct passed clap the Catholic worship was
not idolatrous. Tbe mak of supremacy was suffi-
cient for the safety of &s_Smbi,sicid be could not see
any objection to his motion. There was nothing In
the present sisbal of the Catholics of Ireland which
called for the ceneinuaace of than *eta; in peed of
v.-Lich, he refiered to the Resolutions passed at ag-
gregate meetings at Cork and other places, and read
one which contained a vote of thanks to himself for
his efforts to abolish these Acts--(Loud loughter.)—
He proceeded to observe, that he was anxious to get
the sanction of the Legislature to themeasure he had
to propose in the present Session, as it was not his in-
tention to come into a new Parliament (Loud laugh-
ter.) After a few more observations, he concluded
with moving for leave to bring in his Bill.
Mr. W. SMITH, after a short pause, and no one
else rising, seconded the motion.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said he had no doubt that
the Honourable and gallant General was actuated by
the beet motives in bringing this question before the
Bowe; but he thought it could not be entertained,
alt kalt in its present shape, as the proper course
would be to move a Committee on the Acts, from
which a Bill might issue. But independent of this
objection, he must oppose the motion, because it
. would be raising every difficult question on the Test
Acts, without the slightest probability of its coming
to any practical m .et.ary result. It did not ap.
peat' that the question of Catholic emancipation was
intended to be brought before lite House this Session,
but the present
.motion would force the measure upset
their consideration, when in fact the parties most in-
terested did not askthat it should be discussed. He
hoped the Honourable and gallant General would
not think himself treated disrespectfully by this op.
position, and the Noble Lord concluded by moving'
the previous question.
After the original motion had been changed at the
stiggestiou of the SPLAXLIto to a motion far a Com-
m awe,
Mr. W. SMITH rose, and §:lid he did not agree
with the Nobly Lord, that no practical good would
result from this measure. He thou ht the doctrinal
oaths were +artremely • tionable, because they
confirmed and per teat prejudices of a very bane-
ful nature.

The amendment was then put and agreed to. The
original motion was ccuasquently ltatt.
CaCirtr LANDS.
Mr. HUSKIBSON moved for leave to bring in a.
Bill for vesting certain lands in gainault Forest,
county of Ever, in his Majesty.
Mr. BROUGHAM did not rise for the purpose of,
objecting to the motion: he merely wished to take'
that opportunity of saying, that the strictest economy
ought to be observed in the department of which the
Right Honourable-Gentleman was the head; and it
v.!.is the duty of the Commissioners of Woods and
Forests to take care that in all sales of the property
in their management the best possible terms should be
obtained for the public. Now in looking over the Re-
cnts made by that department, and laid before Par-
liament, there were some things which wanted ex-
plar.atiou. It was true, these reports were of trans.
actions prior to the appointment of the Right Hon.
Gentleman; but perhaps he could give some expla-
nation. In these documents, he found there was con-

siderable difference in the terms imposed upon diffe-
;rent pstrchasers of crown lands, some paying at the
rate of twenty-five or thirty years purchase, accord-
ing to the profits sworn to by the surveyors, while
others paid only a ten years' purchase. The average,
to be sure, seemed to be thirty years ; but there was '
one sale of land at ten years purchase, and it appeared
this was made to a Cabinet Minister—(hear, hear.)
Now what he chiefly objected to was that most of
these sales were conducted privately, instead of being
made by public auction or exhibition, which would
be the fairest to all parties, and highly advantageous
to the public treasury. This was shewn lisshe Re-
ports ; for it appeared there had been one sale by
public auction, and only one ; but what was the con-
sequace ? Why the land sold for eighty years pur-
chase—(Hear, Hear, Hear!) This sale had been
made to a Mr. Corbet, of Merionethshire; and he
thought he should be able, before the Session closed,
to bring several cases before the House, which would
shew the necessity of a Parliamentary controls' Wes
placed upon that department: then again thee IriTt7
the question of honours, which demanded inquir yr,..,
In none of the former inseam's. bad any money b.*
given for the honours attached to the property puppl
chased, though their value was proved by the fact,
that Sir Walter Burrell, whom we might name es e
party in the transaction, thigh he could one nag*
hizu as a Member of Parliailseet ; Sir Walter Bersult
had given SON. for the he of certain lands, net
because they brought hid say profits in reausk, fee,
it cost him yearly eighiess pounds odd to mil*
sired
them ; but some were fond of distinctiee. zed
he wished Sir W jpy of his honour—M
—This, however, that bemoan were
ld&
something. He • not object to such sales; but
why. sell lands at telksay-five and thirty rare put.
chase; aye, even this years purchase, vnthout de.
raawling one saver penny for the homer it Tbsio
was another case, in which Lord Lonsdale had Ob•
tained three-fourths of the Lordship and Barony of

trliAtttfaistlale kite—iimeilthan the cost price,
by
elledf inflanchilnendia to the people living
on eddla, titeserestio himmY all the ma-
norial VA, and tied_ idsokitoperty. fie
would not trouble the House heftier died, as it was
his iatistion to bring the subject regularly before the
House; shortly, conceiring.that the public interests
had been sacrificed to private considerations, and
with the view of extending Ministerial patronage.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, the Hoe. Member had
laid down many principles, in whiclllseiteralserfectly
agreed ; but it was uncandid to make charges
instead of pointing out particular cases, whia might
have given him an apportunity of 'hewing, that there
were circumstances in those cases, which fully justi-
fied the conduct of the Commissioners. The rulis•
had been, in his time, to advertise all sales that w
to take place, giving a fulPopportunity for obtai
the best price. The only sale that had bean m ,
in his time, was of fee-farm rents, and only
to those on whose property they were charged, being
to the amount of 3s. only, in many instances. The
practice was to offer them at 30 years' purchase to
the owners of the property on which the rents were
charged, and if they refused to purchase, the rents ,
were still collected. As to the honour of Kenchd;
he could only say, thatthe surveyors had to take into'
consideration every thing attached to the proierty,
which distinguished it from other property, Mutating
their estimate. But this transaction wen before his
time; and though he had no doubt it was conducted
properly, and with a due regard to the public in-
terest, yet he could not give a particular explanation.
It was easy for any one to say, after a purchase had
been made, "I would have given much more and
this was often done by those who would not give so
much when the sale took place. lie had always re-
commended public auctions, because he thought they
were best 'for the country, and for those who were
responsible to the country in these transactions. He
should merely say, that if the Hon. Member would
bring forward the cases to which he had obseuedy
alluded, he should be prepared to give a better es-
planation than he could do then, having had no no-
tictrof the complaints.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, Lord Loirsd.tle had
given 40 years purchase for the property in question,
which was composed of small paymmts, amounting
on to 2d. and Sd. each, in many instances. He
had told the Noble Lord, at the time he made the
purchase, that he had given one-third MOM than it
was worth, and twice as much as aiy one else would
have given. lie could assure the House, that the
Noble Lard had not made more tan 10001. by the
property, though the Learned Gentleman had stated
his profits at 14,0001.
Mr. BROUGHAM explained, urging,-that bis
chief objection was against these sales being made
privately, instead of by public auction ; and he had
good reason to believe, that he had not over-rated
the by tlfesbayartisn.Lordship
J.AsIIES GuIItAHAV;
has not made 1000/. by the property, and therefore
all these churrouts and misrepresentations are un-
founded."--Leave was given to bring in the, Bill.
Mr. HUSKISSON then moved for leave to bring
in a similar Bill respecting Sheiwood Forest, and a
Bill to amend the Brecknock Forest Inclosure Act,
both of which were agreed to.

country to claim certain debts owing to them.
were then in the Low Countries, and, by A
their debtors, in order to avoid payment,
long detained in • prison—(hear; hear). it
A intpo.ssible not to see co what slight grounds the
Ate" ven to Government h this Bill might be
. In his opinion, it was a measure most dis-
% to those wft had proposed it ; it was most
_.institutional • it was hostile to the spirit of liberty,
and contrary to the policy of all former times. The
Lord has given no reason why he should not
the information, •particularly at a time when
discussion was to come on on the subject of
, and therefore he felt it his duty to support
the motion of his Honourable Friend.

Bir. ABERCROMBIE saw no reason why the mo-
tion should not be granted ; and the very reason by
which the Noble Lord opposed the motion, was one
which went in favour of it. He wished to know if
any correspondence existed between this Government
and, the Government of the Netherlands, as to what
description of persons were to remain in the Nether-,
lands? He was confident that the real motive of the

Noble Lord was to direct this measure against a very
different description of persons from thosealluded to.
Mr. BENNET observed, that it was a bad symp-
tom of the spirit with which Ministers- had carried
this Act into effect, when they refused to give the
information now asked for.

Mr. LAMBTON, in reply, said he wished to ask
.the Noble Lord, whether he had not agreed with the
other Powers of Europe, at the time of the Treaty of
that certain Frenchmen in andson:
',dui Banks of the Rhine should be given nIS- to Ehe
French Government I
Lord

not answering, Mr. LAMBIIDN
expressed his intention to persevere in his motion.!
The House then divided..—For the motion, SQ--.!
against it, 66—Majority, 32.
WATCHES AIM CLOCK&
Mr. PETER MOORE said, there had been a Coin.,
mittee on she subject of his Motion which was to
king in a Bill to remedy such frauds relat ye to the
lataufacture of Watches and Clocks, as had been
proved by the Report of that Committee, and to em-,
'body the evidence of that Committee m the BM. He
expected that every assistance would be given to the
to give it the effect that was required. The
Honourable Gentleman then moved for leave to bring
a Bill for the more effectual prevention of frauds
in the manufacture, importation, and exportation of
sundry wares, and forthe relief Of distressed persons
employed in the manufacture of Clocks and Watches
Mr. ROBINSON did not mean to oppose the Mo.-
don, but merely to- state a doubt he- entertained, whe-
ther any Bill founded upon the Report alluded to by
the Honourable Member would not be productive of
more harm than good.—The Motion was agreed to,
'and the Bill ordered to be brought in.

.%.41'.• -.- , •1a li .1-
- - &gay years' purchase. This alp is this ow
from the -..
`&N,Beak. to the, publh mil kketeted not it-iuramlens snob he 14,000 i. the pries They were
they would do all in their povArt - Seed on the oath of-two Surveyors; and every trick of tl
The ,Paition wens then ordereirco In printed. who had whsemeed the conwadictort evidence of they were
.....31_• ray . moved
la hat plipuon,• apes the value of estates, was inspo!
General THOlitut3N tor leave to bell =lvey irdrivbit confidante loss ee lie placed. is rowers .„,
in a Bill to abolish so much of the Acts of 26th hair jadonno. it this widow there was no public :4ercieel
SOth of Charles the Second as required a decimation ode; if Bain bed bees, the would have graceful t•
in certain cases a • t the doctrine of transubstan- fetched three thou as mucls more. he had unconstitu
nation, and the ROM= Catholic wolchip been told by a wealthy individual in that neighbour. aid contr.
idolatrons. He should havebrought forward this hood, that he should have been glad to have given Noble Lo
measure earlier in the Session, but he was three times the price for it, at which Lord Lansdale furnish thi
sive it might interfere with the mud 43n. obtained it—ibeae, hur.)..—llut the property was a Brat di
tholic-arnancleetion. That Whiles, be ondersood, uhder.reteck tett soillciendy proved by the fact, thus Bill, s