Star.
London, England, 1819-11-27 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, NOVEMBER 26.
The LORD CUANCILLLOIL came down to the House a short time
previous to four o'clock ; and Prayers were read by the Bishop
of La , the junior Prelate.
The Earl of CRATUA3I attended, apparently, for the purpose
of taking the oaths, but it being beyond the prescribed hour
(four o'clock), that proceeding could not take place.
No business was transacted, nor did ail of the Ministers ap-
pear in their places; but the House continued sitting till past
five o'clock, when their Lordships adjourned till Monday.

• HOUSE OF COMMON&
Mr. H. CLIVE prtsmted the Report of the Commissioners
appointed to inquire into the Fees and Emoluments of Clerks
in Courts of Justice.—Laid on the table, and ordered to be
printed.
A new Writ was ordered for the Borough of Cambridge in
the room of the Honourable General Edward Finch, who since

. -
his election has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.
Mr. CLAII4 from the Privy Council, presented a Copy of the
Irish Diocesan Returns, shewing the number of Residents.—

Laid on the table.
Mr. BENNET rose to correct a mistatement which bad ap-
peared in a Morning Paper's Report of his speech on the
subject of the Address. He bad been made to say, that on the
day of the 16th, Captain Burley bad not been at the bead of his
Corps, lie was anxious to contradict this Report, as be could
not conceive any thing more criminal in an Officer than not to
do his duty ; and he heard from all quarters, not only that Cap-
tain !Jerky was a man of the most respectable character, but of
the most humane disposition, and an Officer who would do his
duty, and not more than his duty.

MANCHESTER COMMENTS.
Lord ALTHORP wished to ask the Noble Lord opposite,
whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Ministers to refer
-the Papers which had been laid before the House respecting the
Manchester transactions, to a Committee of Inquiry?
Lord CASTLEREAGII replied, that it was not the inten-
don of his Majesty's Government to refer the Papers in question
to any Committee; the ground on which the measures which
they intended to propose should be founded, would rest entirely
on the notoriety ol the circumstances that had taken place. He
wished now to add, that in consequence of the House last night
not debating the Report of the Address, he should postpone to
Monday next the explanation of the measures which were
thought necessary by his Majesty's Ministers to meet the present
state of the country.
Lord ALTHORP stated; that in consequence of the refusal
of Ministers to propose an investigation, he should shortly sub-
mit a motion to the House for referring the Manchester Docu-
ments to a Committee.
REFORM IN PARLIAMENT.

Sir H. PARRELI pvenetiie, that on Tuesday, the 14th
of next month, he shout move the following Resolutions
That it is expedient the Borough of Grampound should be dis-
franchised; sdly, That it is expedient the two Parliamentary
Seats now attached to that Borough should be transferred to
one or two of our populous and unrepresented Cities; idly,
That it is the duty of the House to consider of the best means to
prevent corruption in the smaller Boroughs; 4t.bly, That when
the majority of the Voters of a small Borough should be found
corrupt, that Borough should be disfranchised; sthly, That it is
expedient to add to the number of Representatives for Urge and
populous Citles—(Hier, bawl. In moving these Rtsolutions,
he did not mean to propose a regular plan of Parliamedtary Re-
form. This notice arose solely from the inquiry, conducted last
year, into the state of the Borough of Orampound, and alight be
considered as its result. A defect had been found in thefiadomil
Representation, which it was his object to correct, and he trust-
ed the House would treat the subject with all the attention
which its importance deserved.
REPORT OF THE ADDRESS.

The Hon. SOMERS COCKS brought up the Re-
port of the Address ; wbich hawing been read,
Sir ROBERT WILSON felt great distress at re-
newing a subject which had already exhausted the
attention of the House • but the great national in-
terests which it involved, demanded the sacrifice of
all minor considerations. He objected to Wild plaits
of Reform and Universal Suffrage, because he
thought them likely to endanger the safety oldie in-
stitutions which, at the Bar of that House, he had
sworn to-defend. But whilst he disagreed with the
Radicals in opinion, he would not push them out of
the pale of the Constitution. He felt great compas-
sion for them, and so would the House, if it put it-
selves in their situation. We might then parody the
lines of a great Poet, and say—
" The realm Is not on friend. nor the realm's law:
" The realm affords no law to make me deb—
* • • • • •

44 My poverty, sad not my will, offends !"
They had, no doubt, read, that every man in a free
State voted by himself, or through his Representa-
tive, for the enactmentof the Laws by which he was
governed. Was it not therefore, natural that they
should yield to the suggestions and seductions of
those who told them that they were deprived of that
right, and that they should come forward to claim it ?
At the Meeting of the 16th of August, the law tad
been most flagrantly violated towards them. Their
banners and their numbers had been objected to ;
but had not the statement of the Hon. baronet, who
represented Westminster, completely removed those
objections. Of this the cheers which accompanied
that statement, gave evident proofs. And with
respect to numbers, did not every Member who had
present a Petition, feel its importance if it were
signed by ten thousand, instead of three hundred ?
' There was other evidence that the people had not
tome to that Meeting with hostile intentions. They
had brought with them their wives and children, the
objects of their affections—(Heer, hear). They had
brought with them tbegallaturies of peace, and could
not have intended war--(Hear hear)—unless, indeed,
like the Ancient Britons, it was supposed that they
bad suirounded dafosielves with.all,that was dear to
them, in order to encourage them to the battle, and
invigorate their despair !—( Hear, Aeon:hear). Ano-
ther proof of their pacific tatentions Was the posigon

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_.

-.~. -.

4

which they had taken. Had they intended to act
hostilely, would they hive stationed themselves in al
cid-de-sue, a mere mouse-trap, where they were sur-
rounded by the military, and where they had no re-
treat but one, and that retreat one where they were
obliged to encounter the'advancing Cavalry ? He
did not contend that the Magistratts might not have
rdispersed the Meeting, but they ought to have done
so according to the forms of the law, which was
tender of the blood of the People—(Near,
The Noble Lord said that they only intended to exe-
cute a civil act. Why then did they employ the mi-
litary ? Could that be necessary when Nadin him-
self, the man most obnoxious to the people, said in
the correspondence now before the House, that he
went up and down among the crowd without any
difficulty? He knew that Colonel L'Estrange was a
most honourable and distinguished Officer; if he
had ordered the advance of the Cavalry amongst a
body of men, women, and children, he had assumed
a great responsibility, for the effects of the mere
march of the horses must have been anticipated.' But
he did not believe it, and it was due to the charac-
ter of that . Officer that an inquiry should, be insti-
tuted. Nadin hilinself said that the attack of the
Cavalry, on this occasion, had been so rapid that he
had not been able to withdraw the constables in
tir

time. • Surely the House would not, after this, re-
fuse to do justice to the people, by ordering an in-
quiry ? The Honourable Member then contended,
that the number of wounded, which had been stated,
not to exceed 26, amounted •to 151, the names of
whom he hoped in a few days to be able to produce.-
He contended that the Grand Jury had thrown out.
the bills laid before them, not because they thought
the charges unfounded, but through a misconception
of their own power. He maintained that his Ma-
jesty's Ministers had bestowed the Royal thanks im-
properly, as even the papers before the House shewed
that much had been left untold. He complained.
that they had not allowed the Prince Regent, in his
answer to the Common Council of London, to intro-
duce a single expression of regret at the loss of lives
(Hear)—although such were to be found even in the
beers of Mr. Hay himself. He lamented that they
should act on the erroneous supposition, that if the
King of France had displayed more vigour at the
commencement of the Revolution, he would have
saved his throne. Far from it ; he was convinced
that had the Marquis de Bonin), acted at the time,
instead of rescuing the throne, he would have added
to the evils of the times. Coercion had lost Hol-
land to Spain, and St. Domingo to France. If
affection did exist, it arose from the miseries of the
People; and how could Ministers speak of irreligion
stalking through the land, when they upheld that
first and grand temptation to vice and irreligion, gam-
bling, by their system of Lotteries ? Those men
who acted with so unchristian a spirit as to refuse
political liberty to the Catholics, on account of reli.
gious tenets, ought to be the last to complain that
irreligion prevailed iu the country. Under all its al-
flictions and inflictions, the People had evinced us•
paralleled forbearance—(Hear).—They felt as men
and as Englishmen, but they had mastered their re-
sentments, and conquered some of their most inve-
terate habits. In time of peace they were now called,
upon to support additional forces; all would be inef•
fectual, for they dreaded much more the evils they
felt than the arms that menaced them. A system of
conciliation mast be adopted, sooner or later, con-
nected with that Reform which a Judge on the Bench
had declared should extirpate corruption from the
House, and restore confidence between the People
-and their Representatives. Then might it be said of
Great Britain—" Nemo enim illic vitia ridet ; nec cor-
nunpere et corrumpi rirculion vocatur."
I Mr. G. LAMB conceived, that if the People could
be satisfied with. words, they might be pleased with
the expressions of commiseration introduced by his
Majesty's Ministers into the Address. But when they
had been omitted on former occasions, why were
they now inserted 1 Whilst every opportunity was
taken of declaring the loyalty of the subjects to the
Throne, why did so few Declarations express senti-
ments of conciliation and protection in return ?
(Hear, hear).—The Address was not exactly as it
ought to be. The House ought to carry to the foot
of the Throne more than mere words. They ought
to have made an application for inquiry. What
would be the effect of such an Address as the pre-
sent in the Manufacturihg Districts? They would
read that the House believed in the existence of dis-
affection, and pledged itself to measures of restric-
tion; but that, with respect to their distresses, it
contented itself with expressing a barren hope that
they might prove temporary I Was this calculated
to tranquilize their minds and soothe their feelings ?
He was near the spot shortly after the Meeting of the
16th of August, and had seen many very respectable
people who had a perfect knowledge of all that had
passed at that Meeting. The result of the informa-
tioh which they had given him, was a conviction, on
his part, that no resistance was opposed to the read-
ing of the-Riot Act by the Magistrates_; and that no
,attack was made on the Yeomanry before the cry of
44 Have at their flags !"—(Hear, hear)—This was cer.
tainly a time when assertions might safely be made,
on both sides, for that inquiry was denied which
might display their truth. He called the attention'
of the House to the appalling situation in which the
town of Manchester and the country were placed by
the refusal of all inquiry. Individuals who had lost
their dearest friends or relations in the events of the
16th, had still looked with hope to that House, not-
withstanding all the declamations and publications
of the Radicals. What would be their feelings when
they should learn that their hope was disappointed?
They would examine the proceedings of the House,,
and expect some fact to have been stated, or some-
argument used, of sufficient power to justify the de-
nial of inquiry. But on looking at, the speech of the
Noble Lord opposite, which might be considered as
the polar star that guided the late majority, would
such facts or reasonings appear? They would find
it stated that the Magistrates had issued no positive
orders to the Yeomanry to strike the people,Who
then would they think the authors of their injuries?
He contended that it was most improper to have em-
ployed the Yeomanry, who, unlike the regular mili-
tary force, were connected-by many ties to a parti-
cular town, and were thus compelled to spend their
lives, where they were surrounded with the resent-
ment.and indignation of the 'people, The injurqd
lathy *dusk were told, that an indictment lay against
Hunt, and they must look to him for satisfaction.

But they would answer, that his prosecutors were
the Magistrates, who were parties to the transaction.
When such prosecutors found that they could not
make out the case against the accused without ex-
posing themselves, was it not to be expected that
they would prefer sacrificing justice to their own se-
curity? It was said that the question ought to he
brought before a law tribunal, instead cf undergoing
a general inquiry in the House. But there Was one
part, and that not the least important which no Court
of Justice could reach ; he meant the conduct of Mi-
nisters in'the transact;on—(Hear, /4,7f:el.—The ca,.e
of the Magistrates and Yeomanry seas very different ;
the one might be justified M the expense or the other.
but his Majesty's Ministers had approved the con,
duct of both, and thus assumed the responsibility vi
the whole on their own shoulders---(Hear,
When the want of means ID prcsecute was urged;
the House were tolel of a subscriptiOn going on irr
the Metropolis and other places to afford those
means. It thus turned out that that subscription,
which the Ministerial Press had so misrepresented
and abused, was, after all, the only means that te.
mained to the injured for seeking redress—( Hear,
hear).—Till the vote of the night before last, he had
entertained no doubt that an inquiry would be
granted, but now that it was denied, he would give
his mite to the subscription, and he thought the
Honourable Gentlemen on the other side bound to
do the same—(Hear, hearl.-They asserted that the
Courts of Law were the only places where the suf-

apply,gh andt
thvoierwe-raehlrfieob, rri;eeer;a(jirtuio,tsylet ice:ca(e)orn;ti.ci
tiobhultelt;etshbevi.
ofebrtearisneodur tthteoyou
enable them to make the application. On his sided
wthoeurdobueseointesso•acs
juasnticae_ct
rtaolo( ne:
edsiareftmao Sotrhet:
aiholateebaiNGtejlh.
ci,eettcri
itdsnee
should
auethllel
dshuopi
dbpei
pledged
himself i
tion c)
m
y
objected to the persons who had the management Of
t e funds,o
serious,fthtoieti lr wsweuotaab Intsshcdnler
oimafbtoper thepsplee_
osite
w whethers
•
that
by private generosity, which they had prevented by
their public vote ?—(Hear, hear, I:ear). Ile recom-
mended that measures of conciliation should be
adopted towards the people of Manchester. He was
well acquainted with several of the Magistrates, and
therefore experienced some difficulty in speaking
about their conduct. Of the stipendary Magistrate
of the place, however, the Learned and Reverend Mr.
Norris, he would . say, that it was his belief a man
with a kinder heart did not walk the earth. But if
the proceedings of the 16th of August were, really
directed by Mr. Norris, if he had not suffered him-
self to be over-ruled by others, he must then, for
that day, have altered his nature--(Hear, hear).—
The Honourable Membee-then blamed the manner
in which the proceedings before the .Oldham Coro-
ner had been suspended, after having commenced
with manly confidence. He reprobated a certain
Magistrate, for having taken upon himself, at Man-
chester, the part of a Grand and Petty Jury, and
pronounced on the innocence of a person accused
before him. He asked whether any lawyer in the
House would say that Meagher's case vas not ma
which ought not to-be disposed of by a Magistrate,
but ought to have been sent before a Jury ?.—(Hear,
hear). He reprobated any increase of. the Army in
,the midst of peace. It was now too late to talk of
the glories 9f the war; it was time to feel the bless-
ings of peace-a-((fear, hear).—Where was the hal-
cyon course of prosperity we were to enjoy upon
the conclusion of war ? Where was the benefit of
all the victories of our renowned Armies, led on by
that Illustrious General, who, as he had been the ef-
fectual Champion of the Independence of Foreign
Nations, it was hoped would be found the , efender
of freedom and peace in his own Hear, hear, hear).
One of the objects.of the contest was to put dawa
Republican principles. How had that object been
effected? He would not answer the question : but
let the Address proposed by his Majesty's Ministers
speak. • Did it not say that Republican principles,
irreligion, and blasphemy, were current among the
People, and vended in every shop ? It was thus that
the great end of the war had been attained—(Hear,
hear).—The confidence of the country was lost: it
could only be restored by such Reform in Parlia-
ment as would produce an efficient Representation in
the State. One of the worst signs of the times was
the want of confidence in all public men ; and this
arose from the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers,
and of the Magistrates themselves. Their speeches
and measures tended to reduce other public men to
their own level, and in that he believed they had
succeeded. They were, in fact, the worst of a:1
levellers--(Hear, hear).—He conjured them, as they.
had declared, in their Address, the great majority or
the People to 'be loyal, to pause before they injured
and insulted that majority by.measures of rest:ictica
and deprived them of those weapons and argutnint:,
by which they could best counteract the disaffected.
Mr. BOOTLE WILBRAHANI occupied ele at-
tentien of the House for a short time in an
tion, the chief object of which was to she* Can e
statements he. made on a former night were bor:e
out by the evidencecontained in the documelas
the table. He bore testimony to the anxiety of t::e
Manchester Magistrates to remove florn their cha-
racters every unworthy imputatiOn. He read a part
of an Address to the Prince Regent, which, he said,
WAS the best Address he had ever seen, and a'.6
signed by all the respectable inhabitants of Manches-
ter, expressing the highest confidence in the chalk
ters of the Magistrates.
Mr. DENMAN had come prepared to argue t;:e
legality of the Manchester Meeting. As he fount.
.howeverohat a Noble Lori. (Lord Alzhorp) 11.•11
given notice of a motion on the subject Pf the Man-
chester Papers, he should delay explaining the
grounds on which his opinion was founded, tint that
question came before the House. He should at pre-
sent only add, that he neyeacould agree to an. Ad
•
dress which entirely overlooked the
greatest otaa
ice
that had yet been committed.against the Constitution
--(Hear, hear)—tending in the most direct nrarre(
to establish Military despotism, andthe more (ingo-
ous, as it was defended on principle—Wear, hoy.):
—He could never agree to an Address, rs!lich ditd.
not even contain one expression cf regret at the eas a
mitous results of the dispersion of the Meeting, v•h!lcte
it carried to the foot of the Throne the acapirtacei.
of the House in measures of restriction—Wear, :.ay. •
Mr. SHEPHERD.had thought himself bound
by
• ani
runt that tended to excite a vexations inqi,.ir,v ,
every prinCiple of justice to vote ag'ainst Amend.

rrfour.ded prejudice against tl.e Masis-
'..t.-0, if an inquiry were instituted, the
cn the public mind would be, that the Ma-
He contended that .the Meet-
were goilty.
illegal. It was in itself a riot--(Hear,
;:a.l been so decided repeatedly, and by
on the Bench, whose authority would
„right. Lord.,Holt had declared, „that
a,scrubled in numbers, in• terrors,m pordi,
. a riot." Arms were not necessary, for
sup)te
their plitce ; aad could there be
that 100,000 persons assembled, as at
even without arms, would create more
..';‘:.m.four armed' individuals. Judge Forster
subject, that" numbers supplied the de-
weapons, and made it a riot." But
iorr.,ing the litnchester Meeting not to have
not, it W:IS sufficient that it was
.an illegal as-
:rto jastify.its dispersi..n. With respect.to the
i.l which it had been dispersed, he was sur-
to hear the Magistrates blamed for having em-
s; the Yeomanry instead of- the Military. The
op was the Yeomanry]
(once of the coUll-
inupplied the place of the posse comitatus, when
or were usable to execute their duty, and was
Ng most fit for the service in which it had been
,red. lle then contended that restrictive laws
be barer than the abuse of the right of meet-
which produced such terror. He urged the au-
x of checking the advance of popular tumult in
;lest stage. It was then only that the remedy
be successfully applied. If it was delayed till ,
;bole body was infected, it could have no effect.'
;! the Magistrates had done right in suppuessing
wing as soon as they did. It had been said,.
Dristianity was the religion of -Liberty;. it was
.41: of liberty founded on law, and respecting
.;:!ts of individuals—(Hear, hear !)—lt was in-
:‘c: on the House to pass some law to prevent
Iblication of blasphemous libels. In every Re-
there had been laws to regulate the Press.—
necessary, for it sowed the seeds which
:,,ring up armed men. In the present case,
no doubt, that could Any .cring man become
and acquire the full confidence of the dis-
:e2, those armed men would soon spring up in
rt laul.—(llear, hear!)
lAILTIN (of Galway) assured the Honour-
Amber opposite (Mr. George Lamb), that he
-.3; surprised that he had expressed concern for
ksAl of any innocent persons who bad unfortu-
iyfalien victims in the late transactions at Man.
at. No one that had afeeling heart but must
ts.tid the Honourable Member) that many men,
:n, and children, had been sufferers on.tbat Oc-
e; and it was unnecessary fat the Honourable
::nan to make any apology for contributing to
• relief. To repair the losses which families had
:cd, and to alleviate their distress, he would say,
example not only free from blame, but laud-
and deserving imitation—one that he thought
to be followed, and of which no man ought to
lamed--(Hear, hear, hear). There could be no
'2t of the propriety of the motive for sincerely re-
..;.g those who had been deprived of aid by their
dabs—(Laughter). The humanity of some Gen-
ie., on the outside of the doors was more laud-
i thmt their speeches within. The influence of
spt.ches was very unlike that of the contribu-
vi.lch put money and sustenance into their
azhs—(Load laughter). He could not help think-
I, that the few pounds which had been subscribed
ithitt purpose were more beneficial than all the
c.titing speeches that had been made. He then
'4ile.l with some praise to the conduct of an Ho-
!gible Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) who, he said,
4adopted the families which had been made or-
. at Manchester. He then deprecated the pro-
'on for an inquiry into that affair at the Bar of
House, and denied the competency of the House
ifcri substantial relief to the sufferers. The pro-
place was the Quarter Sessions or the Court of
7g's Bench. If an injury was to be compensated
looney, Parliament could not nward it—(Hear,
21. An Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Mr.
,ngham) had said ori a former night, that the in-.
...g4tion of the conduct of the Magistrates and the
eamanry at the Bar of the house could in no way ,
-2:1 to its prejudice, as the weight of its censure
.11d rather run in favour of the accused in a Court
law. This, said the Honourable Member, is a
r:sy way of reasoning—(Hear, hear). It 'hewed
t tie inquiry dernanded ought not to be allowed,
result might, in the Courts below, upon such a
.atit,lz, favour the escape of an offender from pu-
-Imvat—(Cries of Hear, hear). The scales of jos--
e should be held even, so that a grain of dust
d turn the balance. He could not but attribute
'evils complained of, even the maiming and loss
tt, the speeches so often repeated by Gentle-
a opposite, and which excited much of the popu-
i.: feeling out of doors, by impressing the People
'tithe absurd notion, that the Tae were. levied
supportPlacemen and Pensioners—(Hear, keess4

.15

~, ;.

begged these Gentlemen to compute the amount
the salaries given to Placemen and Sinecurists ;
4 he would maintain, that if such places were

olichei, the ta.zes saved by that diminution of ez-
nditute would not give the People of England a
helkEist—(Hear, and laughter). Parliament had
:41 likened to a Grand Jury ; but he begged to
if a Grand Jury could reconcile their conduct
:'their oaths, in putting a man on a Grand Jury for
''ie--;Loughter)—or murder, because they were
nemccti that his innocence would bring bin: safe

."0“gil the ordeal, and enable him to retire un
,:iiell ham the burning plough-share? It reminded
rn of a certain kind of trial us the Court of Rome,
..: ~tiject of which was, to try whether a man was
—(Gi cat laughter). On that occasion, there
Z . 4 vcry singular kind of Advocate—namely, the
A loc.ite of the Devill—(Hear, and laughter). His
74ct was t') plead against the saint, and to deny his
blues and miracles, in which he sometimes shewbd
1,
c.it ingenuity. Now he (Mr. Martin) hoped, that
....iA yea on the opposite side of the House had a
..,:'.:r client than his Majesty the Devil !—(Loral
1,,;i.)). The Honourable Member concluded by
T.Jlcing a few remarks on the dismissal of Earl Pita-
,iiii.t:ll, which, he said, was an act of necessary vi-
:o o Vt. the part of his Majesty's Ministers, but reflect-
.llo dissrne upon his public and private virtues.
Ar. WILBERFORCE rose to correct a mistate-
t4.... which had gone abroad, respecting his opinion
a former Light, as tuthe intention of the Meeting
.` lasicheger. He denied that he had ever stated

that it was the object of that Meeting to continue in
force until the night, and then set-lira to the town.
He had adverted, indeed, to the Report of a Secret
Committee in 1817, which attributed such a design
to a previous Meeting ; and lie had done so, in order
to shew more clearly, the strong reason which the Ma-
gistrates,who remembered the intention of the Meeting
two years before, had to be alarmed with respect to
the views of the Heating of the 16th of August last.
They might naturally have concluded that it was
the intention of the last-mentioned Meeting to wait
until the night, to begin the work of conflagration
and plunder. They knew also that the augmented
distress would favour such views, if they were enter-
tained ; and they were, of course, the more solicitous
to deliver the town from -circumstances which. me-
naced so fatal a calamity. The Hon. Member then
took the opportanity Of repealing, that he could not •
agree to an inquiry, unless a very strong and clear
case were made out against the Magistrates. To ad-
dress the Throne, as had been proposed by the Amend-
ment, would be to throw great presumptive blame
•upon the Magistrates. He eulogized the Magis-
tracy of England for the voluntary and effective ser-
vices which they rendered their country ; and de-
dared that their manner of executing the laws, and
the virtuous activity which they showed, upon all oc-
casions, in defence of order, and in support of the
best interests of the social state, had great and salu-
tary effect upon the moral habits and personal cha-
racter of Englishmen.. It was his opinion, that the
result of an inquiry in that House, must be unsatis-
factory, as evidence could be but imperfectly col-
lected, and there might, possibly, be drawn from it,
as many conclusions as there were individual Mem-
bers. The proceeding would never have the effect
of endearing the House to the People. It would
make it more suspected. Evidence, in such a case,
should only be taken where it could be verified on
oath ; and where, also, front the absence of all party
feeling, the whole truth could be sifted to the bottom.
As to the expression of regret which, some were of
opinion, ought to hive been introduced into the Ad-
dress, be thought it was quite superfluous; no one
could doubt, the melancholy event was a subject of
regret, and the necessity for it lamented, among all
but those who wished for slaughter and civil war.
The subject of the employment of the poor, he was
convinced, was one of deep interest with his Majes-
ty's Ministers ; but then they had not held out any
positive promise to the People, because they did not
wi,h to excite hope which might, by any possibility,
be disappointed. It would be unwise to throw a
gleans of sunshine upon misery, which might render •
more embittering, by its absence, the darkness of the
storm. Still, he thought, that labour would soon be
extended, to the benefit of individuals and the com-
munity. He had no doubt, that the increase and
diffusion of employment would be found practicable
at no long period ; and that the portion- of the lower
classes, now unemployed, would be enabled to cans
their livelihood by their own hands, instead of being
under the necessity of making a mendicant applica-
thin to the Poor Rates, to the injury of the public in-
terests, and the deterioration of their personal cha-
racter—(Hear). Oh ! Sir, (said Mr. Wilberforce) our
feelings ought to be like those of that great man;
Lord Falkland, who, in the beginning of the civil
wars, put on mourning ; and, in walking up and
down his room, was constantly heard to repeat the
words peace, peace! The present was a time which
imperiously demanded the sacrifice of party feeling
upon the Altar of the Country. Every difference
ought to be lost in the paramount feeling of anxious
interest for the salvation of the State. However
Members might differ and criminate each other, and
however their divided opinions might lead the Pub-
lic to suppose that one side or the other acted under
impressions different from a sense of duty, he (Mr.
Wilberforce) could, from his own experience, attest
that-such distinctions were only nominal, as he never
was acquainted with a Member of either party who
had not the interest of his country at heart. After
some other remarks to the same purpose, the Honour-
able. Member concluded amid applause, by exhorting
to united exertions for the redemption of the country.
Lord STANLEY began by commenting. upon
what had fallen from a Learned Judge, on an indict-
ment arising out of the Manchester transactions, with
respect to the evidence given in to the Grand Jury,
of which he (Lord Stanley) had been Foreman. He
thought that that Learned Judge, who had grown
grey in the practice of his profession, might, -by his
legal sagacity, have been able to elicit evidence
which a Grand Jury. could not. The Noble Lord
animadverted also upon a statement made by a gal-
lant General (Wilson), with respect to a Bill having
been thrown out by that Grand Jury from miscon-
ception of evidence. He (Lord Stanley) did net know
how the gallant General had arrived at his informa-
tion, he was certain not from any of the Jury, whom
he knew to have carefully and conscientiously dis-
charged their duty,. Their regard for their oaths
could not be questioned ; he knew them personally,
and knew that no chance opinion affected their deci-
sion. He begged to state why he had supported the
Amendment :—it was not because there was any part
of the Address in which he could not concur, but
because he did not think it went far enough. As to
restrictive measures, he was confident there was no
one more willing than he was to strengthen the law
by new powers, when its ordinary ones were not suf-
ficient to put down crimes against society—such as
atheisra, blasphemy, and sedition, which, in his own
County, had been rising to a height that touched the
very borders of rebellion !—( Hear, hear ! front the
Ministerial Benches). But he could not think it
right that a Minister should advise the Sovereign
to pass over the recent unhappy event at Manchester
as if it were no more than an every-day occurrence,
like those ordinary quarrels which happen at a wake
or fair, and which end in a few broken heads, and
some slight confinement. As to the legality or ille-
gality of the Meeting, he had considerable doubts.—
There had been many falsehoods propagated on
both sides. The conduct of the Yeomanry had been
much condemned ; but there were facts imputed to
them to which lie could give a perfect deni,
It was said that their swords had been sharpened for
the attack upon the Reformers, but the fact was
very different; the Yeomanry was not eekeld corps;
it was commanded by Captain Burley, Ago, if there
was blame to be imputed to any one on account of
the swords havitig, been
.sharpened, was willing to
take it a-111 on himseif: It appeared that that Gentle-
man was one day examining the pistols of the corps

• +ea.*

I,

upon drill. when a sabre was drawn to screw a.flint t
he saw the sabre was not serviceable, as was found
to he the case with all the rest ; he therefore ordered
both pistols and sabres to be taken to a gunsmith's,
for the purpose of being cleaned and repaired. This
was taken notice of in the " Manchester Observer,",
on the 10th. of July, five weeks before the day of i
Meeting, and three days before the Military were
i
ordered to assist the_ Civil -Power—(Hear, hear,
from the Ministerial Benches ).---The _ Noble Lord
then proceeded to refute some of the statements with.
respect to the conduct of the Yeomanry, on the cre-
dit of a letter from Captain Burley. It appeared by
that testimony, that the Yeomanry had been sepa-
rated fibril the other force by accident, and when
the Militia), were ordered to assist the Civil Power,
that corps, seeing an opening in the crowd along the
line of Special Constables, and which, from the
movement among the multitude, it appeared would
be soon closed, advanced six a-breast ; but the
;people pressing in upon them, those after the first
rank were obliged to go in single files, to avoid
riding over the persons who thronged about them.
They were accompanied towards the hustings by
some of the chief Civil Officers, but the line of
Special Co tables was broken by the crowd.—
Some of the Yeomen pushed along in the track of the
officers, and surrounded the hustings. There then
arose considerable confusion and a great struggle,
but .the persons who offered violence having been
taken into custody, the constables rushed to get pos-
session of the caps of liberty and flags, and for that
purpose some of the Yeomanry endeavoured to cia
them from the poles. In doing so (said the Nob!t
Lord) they might possibly have injured some indivi-
duals ; but it was false that, as has been stated,
there was an indiscrimate cutting to the right ane
left!—(Hear! from the Ministry).—ln fact, there was
resistance, and a stone was thrown, and it was when
this was scert
.by the Magistrates, that they gay,
authority to Captain Burley and his friends to act,
and the nature of that resistance may be guessed
at, when Colonel L'Estrange called out, " For
GOD'S sake, save the Yeomanry r It was also incor-
rect to say, that were was no avenue .by which the
Meeting could disperse, but by that through whirl.
the Cavalry' advanced. Peter-street, a large and open
street was open to them, and there was no Cavalr
coming that way. There were also many mire
streets open to them, as well as bye-lanes. Ravin)
thus stated some facts, he would refrain from givir
an opinion upon them, because he was as yet la
partially informed of the whole. A general inquil
was very desirable. The Noble Lord opposite, .
added, had made a statement of facts which were
known to none but himself, and which therefore '
could not take for granted. He thought it due .
the Magist: ates themselves to set an inquiry on foot,
for he had too high an opinion of them to think they
would have taken the steps they did, if the Meeting
had not been illegal. He would prefer the Courts
of Law for proceeding in, and he agreed entirely
with those who say that they are the most proper
places, because no other than parole evidence can'
received at the Bar of this House. The example ..
Coventry had been pointed out, because in that
case a rule for a criminal information had been gran-
ted in the Kin's Bench. But this was not precisely
the same, for in that case no lives were lost, and a
was very doubtful if the Court of King's Bench wouli
attend to an application for a criminal informal
where a charge of felony was likely to arise. (
thing, however, was certain, that the call for inqA
was general from all parts of the country ; and it
the duty of the Hous'e, by taking early and vigor
steps, to re-assure the people, and inspire them
a confidence that any violation of their rights was .
overlooked, and that the Magistrates, if they acted
wrong, would not be protected from public exposur
Mr. PHILLIPS, in explanation of what had fi '
from him in the former debate, said he had not
slightest intention to cast any imputation on the
mane feelings of the Manchester Magistrates,
whose private characters he had the highest respect.
Lord CASTLEREAGH, after disclaiming all
tention of following the Noble Lord who had j
sat down, in the detail of the circumstances of
Meeting, congratulated the House for having
from a source net likely to be prejudiced in f
of Ministers, an affirmation of the statements aimed,
made by Ministers--(Hear). He commended'
Noble Lord for that high sense of public duty
prompted him to disclose those facts; and he tr.
'st would have the effect of throwing back upon
ealumeiators that odium, which they had endeavf
to fix upon the Magistrates of Manchester-4
He then reviewed a very few of the facts, and
merited upon the character given them by the '
Lord ; from which he was at liberty to assert,
the Yeomanry did not interfere until the cons
were unable to execute their warrant. In doing
they acted with all possible mildness: and Cal
Burley himself endeavoured to extricate a w,
from a situation which her sea ought to have avoi,
The People again became aggressors, and when'
bad separated one column of the Yeomanry from
main body, they attacked that. The Noble
he added, had dissipated another illusion regarding
the streets being all closed up, except that by which
.the Cavalry came. That was manifestly false, f
(Lord Castlereagh) had it from one of the Magistrates,
having particularly asked him the question, that
Cavalry were drawn from the other side of the r
purposely to make way for the People to disperse.--
He thought the misrepresentation of this fact -
criminal, as it could have no other object
alarm the loyal people in that neighbourhood.
truth was, the people were in no disposition
perse, and so great was the peril of the Yeomanry
that the Magistrates, who were witnesses to
' obliged to call in a supporting force. He
the country would soon see the real nature
proceedings at that Meeting; and he would
more ask the House what there was unconsti'
in ordering assistance to the Yeomanry in the
ous situation in which they were? He was ,
inclined to- make some allowance for the col,
rven these facts from prejudice, and this made
ook to the impression, which residing the '
-hi Parliament, particularly the. Noble Lord's
this night, would have on the public mind, with
pleasure. That, Noble Lord did not stand in .
situation with regard-to the country, as Ministers
'tow,arids whom there was, mort or less, jealous,
'his statement should.therefore have the more
Justice was now at length likely to be done

-I 1 ,
.
i 1 •
; ' Magistrates, who had been, all through, treated e:
I very uncandidly. Why were not these Gentlemen
1 " 1
I entitled to the presumption which every one claims
,: by the English law,-that they were innocent stitiL
s , they were found to be guilty ? All he claimed iar
i them from the House, was a suspension of judgmeist
f • until there was evidence to convict them. It wictwli&
hb
I i`
s then appear how unfairly they had been dealt wit
• .
, and that the motives which induced these Magis-
I • trates, under circumstances of great difficulty, to pat
I _themselves forward, solely for the safety of the coon- t'
- try, and the preservation of the peace, had been
r most invidiously misrepresented.—(Heor I) 0 ;
- Lord STANLEY, in explanation, said, he appre- • . - I
r hended the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had used Iris , '
, statement rather freel y--( Hear 1)—So far as he had
e ventured to give an opinion, it was true the view he ‘
e took was in a great measure the same as the Noble
i Lord's. But when he came to speak of the conduct .
e of the Yeomanry Cavalry, upon which he gave no
• . I i
..i.i
a opinion at all, he asserted then, and repeated now,
d that he only read the statement of a person who was -
i. a Yeoman himself. Wear !)--Hc had, indeed, arddedi .
y that the individual was known to him, that he' • _
i
of had a great respect for him, and that he entirely be-
- lieved all he said. At the same time, he wished the.
e Noble Lord, to understand, that he did not mean to
n identify himself with that individual, as the narrator
e, of the facts—( Hear).
n Lord CASTLEREAGH gave the Noble Lord r!
s- credit for the caution and candour with which he
it had conducted himself all through. He observed, i
it that no one who was not an eye-witness could pledge ' • i
le himself to any opinion, he could only reason from
1 , 1
i- facts afforded by others.
d, Mr. J. P. GRANT said he would reserve himself i I
id to give an opinion on a future occasion, but he could i i 1
as not help saying, that it was for the interests of the ,
en Magistrates to have an inquiry as soon as possible, , i i
ve and so.acquit themselves of the presumption, which 1.
:t, now lay against them, of being guilty. The Noble
ed Lord opposite had himself furnished an argument.
'or for inquiry, when he said, that all his reasoning liked !,,
sr- upon hearsay. Now there was great difference of . ; .
he opinion upon facts which formed the premises of this i
ch reasoning, and which made an inquiry snore desirable. I
len He would however vote for the Address, though at . i
lry the same time not pledging himself to take any course r •
)
ior upon the measures which were to be proposed. • 1 •
in Lord CASTLEREAGH said, the statement did
ing not rest on the authority of the Noble Lord (Stanley), 1 '
but however high, but on the authority of an Honourable • t 1
iiry Member connected with that quarter.
he Mr. BENNET said, three testimonies had been
'ere given in favour of the character of Captain Burley— . .
he his character had not been called in question. Ile 1 14 '
to did not believe it had ever been called in question at
oot, Manchester, and he was certain it had never been -
hey called in question in that House; and he should wish 1 I ' •
ting to know, therefore, whether any Gentleman could '
urts say he had heard it questioned? He wished to make I •
rely another observation. The statement of• his Noble. i
oper Friend (Lord Stanley) rested entirely en the state. A 1 ,‘ I
a' be ment of Captain Burley himself--(1/ear, hear, hear). - tl' i
1
le of It might be true, and it might ndt be true. Other i i
„
that statements had been made by a number of individuals i,
;ran- on oath, on the Coroner's Inquest, of a nature alto-
isely gether contrary to it. These statements might be 1 t 1
td it true, or they might be false: They were, thereforei • , :
ould called on to.inquire which of these statements were
ation true—the statements of the Magistrates and Yeo- i 1, ', at
One manry, or the statements directly contradictory of
iuiry them on oath ? . - i
1 9,
.
t was Mr. B. BATHURST adverted to the great import-
Drous ante which the attestation of Captain Burley, who i i
with was an eye-witness to the transactions at Manchester,
is not possessed. It was, he contended, a complete justifi- „
,
r .
acted cation of the Magistrates, as it proved that they had
.1
asure. not called in the Military until it was seen the Con; ,
. k
fallen stables were unable to execute the warrant. The ' .'
>t the People were determined to throw every obstacle in I*
to hu- their way, for they now crowded in great numbers ,
s, for about the hustings, so as completely to shut out all -I ,
ipect, approach to them. The hustings had also been re- .. , 4
all in- moved from the place in which they originally stood. ii • ,1 1,
d just Under these circumstances, the Magistrates felt they .• , ,
of the had a duty to perform to the loyal People of Man-- : i
_
• now, chester, who were the majority ; and it was very un-
favour just to arraign the manner in which they did"that, as . 1
lready they could possibly have no other object in view but, ;•
d that the public interest.•He had said the loyal inhabitants' .
which were the majority, and the fact proved it : for when 'i t i
-
trusted the Meeting was dispersed, so great was the indigna- •
on the tion shewn by the people, that if it had not been for
' I
voured the interference of the Yeomanry, the prisoners would ''
jlear). haie beet badly treated. He trusted this view of the
d corn- case would soon become general, and that the time i I
Noble was not far off when the Magistrates would be
1, that rescued from the imputations now cast upon them
istables a--( Cries of Question, Question 0 1 ; 0
ng this, Mr. BARING, without discrediting the evidence
captain adduced by the Noble Lord (Stanley), was inclined to
\ 1
woman look upon it as• a little suspicious, coming as it-did,
moided. from one who was a party himself. The facts, how-
en they ever, which that statement disclosed, as they gave a , ;
rom the new reading to the affair of the 16th August, were • .
e Lord, of themselves arguments for an inquiry. Inqtrilj,
gardiirg seemed to be the desideratum of all parties; it warthe ' .
, ' r
y which object of all Public Meetings; and even at that of
e, for he Yorkshire, the people said they would petition for it. : i
;istrates, If any thing mole than another could shew the neces- , , )
that the sity of inquiry, it was this feeling, which was so ge-
square, neral throughout the country. There was already a .• j i
perse.— prima facie case made out, and how was it to be anb •
I! 1
act very twered, unless by an inquiry through the House?
than to He observed, that it would be very desirable for the
d. The parties themselves to get rid of the presumption
t to dis- against them, which was now so strong. It was plain
oroanry, they had notice the day before that the Meeting
it, were would be illegal, and yet when they saw large bodies , ..
t trusted of men coming into the town with banners, early in 4 '
1 i
•e of the the morning, they took no pains to disperse them, . •
old once but waited until several thousands- were assembled, I
titutional and it was then very difficult to disperse them.— ' 4
,
the peril- If this was suffered to isss over, it might have the , - •
1 .
is always worst effect in the Manufacturing Dittricts, where a t ;
colouring confidence in the stability of things could alone in- 1 ;;
nade him duce men to embark their capitals in trade. It would
e Debates be bard to say to mhat.extent an inquiry should go;
l's speech, indeed -the principal object would be, to ascertain ,
with some whether there was any interference by Government i
1 the same with the Magistrates or the Coroner, whohad, with-
sisters did, out any cause, adjourned the Inquest for slit Weeks ?, ,
- 1 1
ousy ; and 'the circumstance of one. Magistrate-refusing to take
re weight. information because he was a party, and another re- . 01l
one to the Nibs because his neighbour was concerned, made a
• „' - s
, •
.1
4
. . 1