Star.
London, England, 1827-06-09 00:00:00

the
in i

sk Lords woe hiad spokes" h id spoken strongly
'tour, although they generally difibted with hi
es Government. The Noble Baron behind him.
Diable Marquis'at his side, though they soil at
that period in a different part of the House, had not
withholden their support on that occasion. But above
all, the measure had been supported by that great Ge-
neral and Statesman whose opinions in all matters mi-
litary and civil, were entitled to the deepest weight, but
particularly with respect to a country which had been
guided by his councils and defended by his arms—
(Hear, hear, heat)—He of all men was the least
likely, from his extensive experience of the affairs
of the country in which he had been so long engaged,
as well as from the natural soundness and vigour of his
mind, to suffer himself to be led away by any delusive
or enthusiastic feelings. The sending of troops to ['Or-
tega) was considered, not as a matter of doubt or policy,
but as an act imposed upon us by the laws of honour
and the faith of treaties, and no measure had more
powerfully coattibuted in a short time to raise the high
character of England still higher in all parts of Europe.
It would be disrespectful to suppose that their Lord-
ships had altered their opinion. as nothing had occurred
to produce such a change. In their House no objection
whatever had been raised ; but in another places an

apprehension had been betrayed that the meassielniet
have involved us into a war. He believed, in point of

fact, that the presence of our fnce, by rendering hope-
less the designs of the Portuguese Refugees, carried On,
if not with the direct assistance of the Spanish Govern-
ment, at least with the connivance of the Spanish Au-
thorities, had saved both countries from a war which
might have endangered the tranquillity of Europe. In'
calling upon the House, therefore, to provide for the'
maintenance of that force, he should do no more the*
assure them that the circumstances which had required'
its being sent, had not entirely ceased to exist, but be
had the satisfaction to say that they existed in a much
mitigated degree. Negotiations were carrying on be.'
tween Spain and Portugal, under the sanction and ins
Silence of England and France, which might lead, there
were strong grounds to expect, to a perfectly amicable
accommodation, by which we should be ultimately re-
' lieved from the necessity of keeping a force in Portugal.
But till that time had come, and ai long as our honour
and the senility of our Ally required it, his Majesty
' cated upon Parliament to give hens the means of
maintaining the necessaty force. The time, he trusted,
was not distant, when our troops might be withdraws,
without producing a recurrence of those circurnstamliet
which had rendered their presence necessary. Ho* long
'that might be of how short, it was highly desirable
that the principle on which they had b en sent and as
which they remained in Portugal, shoold be digitise"),
known. Considering what was said in that Hotest;
as said in the face of Europe, he should therefor*
declare that the British troops had not been sent to
Portugal with an ostensible reason, but for a different
purpose ; They were neither sent to obtain an undue in.
Spence nor to impose a particular form of Government
upon that country. It was true that assistance would
be rendered with a mote generous seal to a people en-
joying similar institutions and liberties ; bet our troop;
had not been sent to protect Constitutional Port_qgslot
annoy dr.spotic Spain, but to deleud Portugal, our an-
cient Ally, which we were bound to do by the faith of
treaties and by ties of political expediency equally
strong—(Hear, hear). These were the principles on
which the measure was originally founded, and they
continued to be the same. As it was impossible to state
exactly when our troops should he withdrawn, he had
thought it eight to make a fresh declaration of the prin-
ciples on which their stay was prolonged. With respect
to the point on which his Noble Ft iend (Lord knew.
borough) had asked hint several questions which he
bad answered in the negative, whether he intended to
lay any pipets, respecting Portugal on their Lordships
table, he had to observe, that even in refusing the pro.
duction of papers there was still this difficulty to en-
counter, that the reasons given to justify that refusal
might be equal to the production of the papers them-
selves—(Hear, hear). He was desirous, however, of
affording as much satisfaction to the House as his duty'
would allow him. Their Lordships must be aware that,
our case in seeding troops to Portugal must have been
more or less a case against Spain. Had a direct rup-
ture occurred, or were it likely to occur, it might be
proper to lay all the papers relative to it before the
House; but when fortunately things had taken another
turn ; when the disposition of Spain had become con-
ciliatory, and sanguine hopes wee entertained that ah
amicable arrangement would be concluded, would it be
right for him to lay before the House papers which
might make a case against Spain?—(Hear, hear, hear).
Would it be fit, that with two Spanish Ambassadors in
this Metropolis, an ordinary and extraordinary one, and
after having assisted at a friendly conference with them,
be should come to that House and present papers to
slew the reasons which they had had, or thought they
had had, to find fault with Spain ?—(Heae, hear),
Having stated thus much, he should go no further. His'
Noble Friend might ask questions, but if he were in the
situation which he (Lord Dudley) fitted. he would an-
swer them in the same manner that he did. The Noble
Viscount then concluded by moving," That so humble,
Address be presented to his Majesty, thanking him for'
his Message, and assuring him of the readiness of thst
House to comply with the recommendation in the
Message."
Earl GREY did not rise to oppose the Address, but
to explain the grounds on which his assent should be
given, and to reserve to himself the right of making
tome objections when the matter should be more con-
veniently discussed. He concurred entirely with the
last propositions of the Noble Viscount. It would not`
be right to press for papers under the circumstances
which he had described ; for the production of docu-
ments of a hostile character, during pending negocias'
tions, might destroy that hope of an amicable termini's
tion which appeared to be entertained. He regretted,
however, that after so long a period bad elapsed since
the sending of our troops to Portugal, greater advances
bad not been made in the work of pacification and se-
curity. He felt his disappointment increased by the
nature of the present Message, and of the explanation
given by the Noble Viscount. Was he to understand
that the 500,0001. now to be granted to his Majesty
were to be employed solely for the maintenance of the
IBiitish troops now in Portugal? He could not believe
that; 160,0001. or at most 200,0001. would cover the
whole expense for 5,000 troops, the amount now in,
Portugal, and this was already provided for by the
usual grants for the Army, that force not being addi-
tional, but forming part of the regular mass. It might
be said that additional expenses were incurred by a
body of troops acting abroad ; but that could not exceed
61,0001. making a gross amount at the utmost of
280,0001. for a whole year. As all this was already

provided for oat of the Army Estimates. he could steno
necessity for the present call. Besides, an additional
,um lied been granted this year in the Army Eutaw-
,dinaries, sand yet they were called upon for a vote of
'credit of 800,0001. within 20,0001. of what would be
required for the maintenance of a double amount of force
during a whole twelvemonths. This naturally ezciied
a feelingkof jealousy and apprehension that his Maje,
ty's Ministers foreseeing greater danger., were making
the present call to supply the King with the mean, of
meeting them, by employing a larger force. He tit
disappointed that his Majesty s Ministry were not able,
at this periods to say that effectual satisfaction had been
obtained from Spain, and that no increase of the public
burthens should be necessary. On the contetry, where
Parliament was on the eve of separating, they seemed
Ye strengthen his Majesty's hands in order to carry to d
greater extent the defence of Portugal. If he aletaineJ
!from calling for information, it was on the ground that
negotiations were pending, on which not only the peat.'
of England and of Spain, but the tranquillity of all
Europe might depend. He should, however, reserve
to himself the right of questioning, if hereafter he should
find it necessary, the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers
respecting all these transactions. Some passages of the
Noble Viscount's speech appeared to him little con-
sistent with one another. He understood that troops
had been sent to Portugal on the ground that a treaty
existed, that a aura fieckris had arisen, and that we
were obliged to defend our ancient Ally. On this
ground he (Earl Grey) should certainly have assented to
the measure, but he should hare been equally disposed
to des so on the broader one of sound policy, which re-
quired that when the independence of Portugal was
threatened, steps should be taken to prevent France from
acquiring a complete preponderance over the Peninsula.
With the Constitution of Portugal, however, we had
nothing to do.—(Cheers from the Ministerial side.) It
was not our work: it had not been recommended by
as: whether good or bad, whether accordant with the
desires of the people or not—whether its opponents or
supporters were right or wrong—whether Don Pedro
hawing chosen the Brazilian Crown and resigned that
of Portugal, had a right to send a Constitution to that
kingdom, were all questions with which we had no.
thing to do. It was for Portugal to decide them;
any interference on our part would be a violation of
national rights and independence. It was not for such
a purpose that British troops had been sent to Port,.
gal--(Cheers from Viscount Dudley and the Minis-
terial side)—and the moment that security should be
obtained from Spain, and no external invasion threat-
ened, that moment our occupation of that country
should cease. The cause which had ever rendered it
necessary was our °original impolicy in suffering the
French to invade Spain, at a time when we held a situa.
lion and possessed advantages which we no longer re-
tained. He trusted, however, that we should endea-
vour by negotiation to repair that original error, and
he should be satisfied if whilst settling the evacuationof
Portugal by our troops, we also could procure the evacua-
tion of Spain by the French. We should in fact have a
right to insist upon it on the ground of our owe security,
The French had been there four years, on what pretence
they still remained he knew not. They had gone, they
said, to liberate the Monarch from a military facticie,
which kept him prisoner. But that object had long
since beta attained. The Cones were suppressed ; thi
rebels, according to some, or the virtuous patriots, at,
cording to others, were dispersed over the face of thi
earth, and had become objects of compassion. Thai
was, therefore, no reason why the French should remit
longer in Spain. If they did so to support the presen
Government against the wishes of the people, all 1,,
should say was, that such a Government ought not v
be supported. They held such impos cant places tin
the whole Peninsula might be considered in their pox
session, and though they were amicable, still he hope
that England would be relieved from even the posy
bility of danger hoax that quarter. Our position wet
singular, as well as tbat of France. It was said the
the people of Spain were attached to an absolute Mc
narch, and yet it was found necessary to have a Frenc
army to support him. On the other hand, the Porn
goose were considered as much attached to a Constits
tional Government, 'and yet our army might be stir
posed to remain in Portugal, because if it went, the
Constitution, so dear to the people, would immi
diately be overthrown ! These were the results
Sovereigns and Nations departing from principles I
liberal policy
Viscount GODERICH only wished to explain tb.
the apparent excess in the present Grant over what al
peared to be necessary, was certainly not intended,
the Noble Earl opposite supposed, to enable his Maks'
to strengthen the amount of his force in Portugal.
fact was, that though the general expenditure for tb
army had been provided for in the usual manner, tb
contingent expense of a body of troops acting in a foreig
country could not be exactly estimated,and had therefor
out been provided for beforehand. -It was true that the
had been a considerable inetemie in the Army Elmo
tdisaries this year, but the Noble Earl was wrong in cot
driving that it was to be applied to this service. It ha
been granted to meet expenses which had been incur
is our Colonial establishments during the last three
four years, and which had accumulated into a debt.-
As to the amount of the sum proposed, it was impu
Bible to say that. five hundred thousand pounds woull
be exactly what might be wanted, but the Grant wet
taken on the principle of a vote of credit, and on such
scale that the service to be performed should not suffe
from any possible means. The grant itself would has
been proposed much earlier, had it not been for circus
stances with which every one was acquainted,
which t
a certain point had affected every kind of public btni
ness. He should now tinly repeat, that the present nor
was not proposed to enable his Majesty to increase hi
force in Portugal, or to extend its sphere of operalieul
but merely to pay for its expenses, limited as those opt
rations were to be, according to the principles laid claw
by his Noble Friend (Viscount Dudley), and most pre
pertly explained by the Noble Earl.
The qmstion was then put and agreed to finnitte cesintdicente•
GANZ LAWS.
The Sale of Game Legislation Bill went through a Commiur
and was ordered to be printed with amendments.—Adporte.. t,
Monday:
HOUSE OF COMMON&
MT Lail CORWMATION ACIT9.
Acts we
Petitions for the Repeal of the Test and Corporation
presented by Mr. C. W. Wynn from Me Dissenters of the Coy':
et Nosatgomerr, and from the Disasters of Llandrylan, prat of
the removal of all religious disabilities ; by Mr. Alderman wet
bumthe Dissenters meeting at the 0)4 Jewry Chapel, In Jet'
meet ; by Sir W. Heatbeote. from the Baptists of Bone!,
libamehire ; by Mr. Mundy, from theßaptist• of Buxton, in DO
I lift s by Sir Wm. Rowley, from Barton Mills, Itendlesbam,liK6
Newmarket, Long Melford,and several ether plat: coin Suffolk; 1
Mr. Enthope, from the Presbyterian Congregation of Welleur
Mary.la.bonne, and from the Baptists of Bonham Town by Str
Winnington, from the Dlsseuters of Kidderminster, in Weal'
shire by Hr. Forester, front the Dissenters of Grosckl,