Star.
London, England, 1821-04-07 00:00:00

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paid sal:tries to the sae amount as in 1806, t
saving to the Public uld be £13,000; but as he
meant to throw no impediment in the way of publit
businesi, he should only wi.h to reduce the expense
of the office by E.7)00. He therefore moved that the
vote should be 1:45 1141. _

Par--

Lord PALM E RSTJN said, that he v► •as entitled to
the Hon. Gentleman% vote, inasmuch as with fees and
all the expense of the Office was upwards of L:50,000
in 1806. His Private Setretary did other duties than
those attached to his Office. By turning over some
of the Clerks to look after the arrears, there had bees;
a saving to the country of £400,000, of which £14,000 s
had been ;mid into the Bank. In the two last years
the War Office had literally cost the Public nothing,.
because it had actually recovered much more than
The Public had paid to it.
Mr. HUME contended; that he was prepared to
proVe that the Noble Lord had greatly increased the
expenses of his Office. He should wish to know from
the Noble Lord, when the fees of his Office ceased?
In the year 1814, whet we had nearly 200,006 men
in arms, we only paid for the War Department
£62,000, and now it was above £2600 more, though
we were now in the seventh year of peace, and after the
great reductions made in our Army. The Government,
he had no doubt, could save £30,000 a-year by taking
away the Agency of the different Regiments of the
Army. He knew that there could be a great redvc-
tion made in the law expenses of the War Office.—
There was a greater apparatus and number of Clerks
now employed than wore necessary • for a letter of
no moment must be answered formally, and entered,-
Bcc. The Noble Lord's Office required tevision ; and
he was extremely sorry that the reduction had not
been moved at £lO,OOO, instead of C 5000; but
he would say, that half a loaf was better than no
bread !---(flear, hear).
Lord PALMERSTON put it to the House whe-
ther they could discharge the persons on the Super-
annuated List, who had spent their best years and
blood in the service of their country ?—tHear, hear).
The total amount of law charges for his ace, did
not amount to £3OOO a-year. He (Lord Palmerston)
had effected a reduction in his Office, and its depart-
ments, to the amount of £20,000 a-year. But there
was a haziness about the intellectual vision of the

Honourable Gentleman, which made him see things
in a different way from what was really the fact.
Sir H. PARNELL thought the Noble Lord inde-
corous in using the language he had employed ; and
for his own part he believed there was not a single,
charge brought against the Noble Lord's office, that
could not be borne out by facts—(Hear, hear). There
were, at least, ten or twelve Officers employed in the
settling of the Army Accounts, when any two Offi-
cers might do the business as well at one-fourth the
expense to the Public. •
Lord PALMERSTON was sorry if he had said any
thing which could be considered offensive; but the
Honourable Baronet should recollect that in that
House the habit was to give and take ; and when he
and those on his side of the House, were. Fbarged
with being a corrupt majority, he was suit it was
more than any man would venture to say to another
out of that House—(Hear, hear).
Mr. W. SMITH complained of the amount of re-
tired pensions, especially as they were not granted to
the most meritorious Officers. He observed upon the
speech of the Noble Lord, which, he said, was neither
more nor less than the slang and cant of office!
• Mr. BENNETT said, that all that had been done
on the part of Ministers had been a gentle ravishment,
and had been extorted from them by compulsion. It
would be of much advantage if the business of the Army
was conducted in the same way as that of the Navy.
Mr. MABERLEY stated, that of the expense of
; £30,000 for agency, much might be saved to the public.
Lord PALMERSTON stated, that any alteration

in the present mode would be attended with much in-
convenience to Officers.
Mr. WILSON thought that some saving might be
made in the Agency Department, and should vote
for the reduction of £5,000.
Mr. CREEVEY thought the House ought to go
more into detail.—(Hear, and laughter.)—He would
explain what he meant. He saw by the Estimates
that the Deputy Secretary at War had a salary
.of
£2,500 per annum; the First Clerk £1,400. He had
a great curiosity to see a Clerk with a salary of
£1,400 a-year! —(A laugh).—The Principal Clerk had
£1,200. He would wish to know at what hour these
Clerks attended at their Offices, and whether they
came there in their curricles or in their tilburies?—
(Loud laughter).—The most distinguished and suc-
cessful men in the Army, men who were made Peers,
were not so well paid. Major-Generals had but
£5OO, whilst Clerks had £1,200, and £1,400 a-year!
(Hear, hear).—He did not know whether he could,
just at that time, have these Clerks before the House,
but come they must—(Hear, hear).—He thought, in
these times it was absurd to give such salaries, while
the People were so ill able to pay them (Hear, hear).
Lord PALMEItSTON said, that if the Hon. Gen-
tleman would compare the salary of the present Se-
cretary at War and the appointments to which.the
Hon. Gentleman had alluded, with what they were
some years back, they would find that the present
rate of salaries was upon the economical system.
Mr. O'GRADY observed, that he found the name
of the late Deputy Secretary at War down in one
place for a superannuation of £BOO a-year some years
back; since that, he had got into another office, and
now retired upon i.:1800 a-year. He wished to know
if a man acquired an additional claim to superan.-
nuation allowance by changiag his office?
Lcrd PALMERSTON replied, that the late De--
puty Secretary at War, on receiving a retired allow-
ance of £l,BOO received the £SOO alluded to for a
long series of services in foreign count; ics. The Ho-
nourable Member would also perceive that the name
of that individual was the 'same as that of one of our
most distinguished military heroes who had fallen in
the service of his country abroad. The individual in
question was the representative GE the late Sir John
, Moore, and that circumstance was taken into consi-
deration in making the allowance, whiCh was granted
shortly after the death of that distinguished Com-
mander—(Hear, hear).
After a few words *bet Mr. O'Gannr, Colonel Myles, Sir
Roam WILSON, and. brjr. FARQUHARSON on the subject cf the
Riding Establishment teeth* Cevah7.-tile House divided, whelk
there ,
appeared • • .
FOT the Resoladort -
Allies' it

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- Majority - - - - . —39
The °tiff Orders of the Da/ were ailr'sed °fl 4114 the lieu*
adiesrned at a quarter Oat Wite /Mixt.