Star.
London, England, 1829-03-18 00:00:00

majority rester than had ever given him their support.
Lint the ight Omit Gentleman stater that he *Of riot,
eilfic4 k dlppoesabpthosi viiiiiiioied with him upon
Otis qu tiotin t s House. sir, T confers I did not
eapeet,tis bent sue .
a cliarge atieenegt When he 4.-
1
perwaced such i •ant of so rt ' I ani at a loss ts
guess. •
the has nosinitticularizel any stccresizis; and l'.
most say I think he would find-it most diffienlt so to
cla. Was it at the time when Mr. Caning commenced
as Leader of the Administration that he complains ?
I -
Sir, I remember that ociasionwells. an I believe that
no:Minister of the Crown ever 'quitted Offiee "supported
by:so large or se respectable a body as that 'which then
supported the Right Hon. Gentleman. I confess, then,
that to be now • rept-hided with haviig 'been found
wanting in that support which' was, I contend, so
honestly and so zealously given, excites my surpri.le.--
I say, then, in reference to that period, that if the po-
licy of conceding the Claimi •of the Catholics wiz so
strong as the Right' Honourable Gentlemin desciibes
it to be, in common justice to the country--iu cum-
' mon justice to himself—that was the moment when
he should have conceded thern—(Hear, hear, hear).—
When Mr. Canuing, who was the adeocitel. the able•and
' consistent advocate of the Catholic Claims, first intern-
duced into Parliament a measure for conceding those
Claims, I did not consider such concession either nisei
diem or necessary. Such was also my impression when
they. were again brought toward in 1827, If such had
not been the case I should have been bound to give Mr.
Canning my support, and it was on this ground only
that the Right Hon. Secretary received it. Sir, I think
concessions would, if necessary, have had at that time
a much better effect, inasmuch as, if we are to look for
security to the gratitude of the Roman Catholics,-that
gratitude would have been greater than it can now be
fir they would have received as a boon at the hands of
Mr. Canuing that which they will not hesitate now to
declare can be no longer withheld. Sir, it is a very on-
usual thing for any Member of this House to apologise
' tor.oot addressing you; but, as the Right Honourable
Gentleman has moldered this apology somewhat neces-
sail, I beg to state that, if I have hitherto been silent
upon this topic, it was because I conceived my inter-
ference by no means necessary—(Hear, hear). Sir, it.
reference to the county which I have the honour to re.
present, I will say that, when we assembled to declare
our sentiments upon this question, we thought we a ere
giviog.the Right Honourable Gentleman our utmost
support—(Hear)—for we at that time little suspected
that the first day of the present Session of Parliament'
would have presented him to this House, after having
undergone a total change in the sentiments he had pro-
fessed and advoca:ed for so-many years. Sir, as a re-
presentative of the county of Bent, I will say of that
countyand I will say it with all respect to the con.
stituted Authorities of the land:-.whenever we think it
right.to -assemble, we will take leave so to do, and to
pursue the course that we shall consider best. The nest
point to which I shall itllude, al being the third reastle
adduced by the Right. Hon. Gentleiranin hit.defenee,
is as to the divided ;tate ache -Cabinet. Nois, oil Man'
can doubt this fist. No man can have•forgotten that
it bas•heeti a subject of complaint for many yeah ball ;
but the information is surely nothing'new—sutely it does
not OW Frees upon. our . Consideration more thin it, has
done for ycars.Nay,it does not now press so much,lor the'
circumstance is not now so strong as it used to be; and I
will here remind then House that a few evenings ago a
gallant penerafi• now in office, declared that he had'
formed an opinion with reference to this subject, upon-
which His opinion bad not previously bten formed.—
Now, I give tills Gallant General credit for having' acted
fairly, and. as 'he possessed no opinion before, I am at
liberty to presume that, if the Noble Duke at the head*
of his Majesty's Government had held a different opi-
nion, there is much probability that the Gallant Gene-
ral would have thought with him; I contend, there-
fore, chat the present Cabinet would not have been as
much divided as those which have previously existed.
When the Honourable Member for Liverpool was in
the Cabinet—when the Honourable Member for Cam-
bridge was in the Cabinet—when the Honourable Mem-
ber for Inverness was in the Cabinet—then, indeed, the
Cabinet might be properly called divided ; but, when
those Honourable Members quitted. their offices, I
believe, it the division in the-Cabinet was not altogether
se' aside, it had, at least, become so trifling as to leave
it in the power of the head of that Cabinet totally to
prevent the Cabinet from being longer divided upon:
this subject. These, then, Sir, are the grounds on which
the Right Honourable Gentleman has justified the.
change that has recently taken place in his opinions,
v ith regard to the question of concessions to the Roman
Catholics. Sir, I will not allude to the change of opi-
nions which some other Honourable Gentlemen have
undergone. Those changes do not, I conceive; at all
bear upon the point ; but I contend that no circum-
stances now exist to warrant this change on the part of
the Right Honourable Gentlemen that hive not vatted
for a very long period—that there is now nothing to
induCe the Government to act that has not been of long
duration. In the course of the di,cit skins that have
occurred since the opening of the present Session of
Parliament,l have heard some obsertrati.ms which I con-
fess have given me considerable surprise. It has been
asserted by one Honourable lientleman, the Member*
for Winchelsea, whom I do not see in his place, that
this question is a political, aid not a teligious quetioi:
I certainly am not astonished that this Honourabld'
Member should have made such a declaration, beemisi
it is consistent with the course he has invariably pur-
sued, and the principles upon which he has invariably
acted; but I confess I have been greatly astonished id'
hear similar sentiments from other persons—personi
• who I should have imagined would have been the
*et y last to have uttered them. What! not a re;
ligiods question? Surely the whole question turns
upon sensiont—(Heari hear). There is nothing,•ii
tar as lean conceive, in the nature of the Roman Cabo-
lies. that can prevent them from being got d and use-
ful_ subjects; but it is because there is in the :elision
'they jrofe,,, in the doCtrinei and oplttioiii they bold,
• siiiiell titit we.bdie.e boo, injitSfiatisofed opposed to
Ilioldijbh t;OnstitOtiOlti that we stet to iiitlihOld lrom
them certain privileges. This, I an. juitified in saying,
is.thepris.ciple tilitin which the Right Hon. Gentleman
liisi f ern hithertOgiii.lid in hit disootitiod 0 theit chains
this. is Ate cause of the course he iiitl beretiffisie egO•
.I.lesed iglu) duty to pursue. In support of this opi.
won I will read s,pessaAe from a speech de'ivered by
the. nht PotierUrahle GeOdetigin, in this House, so
.• . .
I4iiig,4 Is *. s.tltej ea; no linger ago thin the Lett
last Session of Patlianieut. The words of the Right
Honourable Gentleman ate as follow-:-,4 Can I leave
gut et. iiinliget,llll Kollar iuiluehee ..f the teneti
of .4ii. iti040... LAl)Pc..oi4roo on 00'44 society,
apposed as 004 tenets are to those principles and tb
those institutions[
,whiiith we consider s wed ?" Tfiii,
then, was die slii.i,it.rie ivhich, the Astit tietteerie
fieAtjpnalLsod4re.aiotoil,:aaipiateo pith the raft I
months. Sir, there is in ibis country a 'very large God
of people who believe this gaistlotl to k almost, or
snit, erlirsi s. silt altogether and eieliiii,ely, a reli.
gums ejUKtiob i and; tlttliSulth I tau libt iiiiireii tb rat.

low in

•
lie, or to argue that the rife of Rome
..,, 1 will contend thal'tholt:estreines
WM Olfeeist to a Vast meet thiofighoutthotoon.
ilipid I will maintatt nth this (*tam lea e Weed.
le'ices—is a religiouslis well ail political quektielf.
been. Baronet hersrfeatfin ezivacf• frogs ter
yci.. evidence, in which the'DoCtor spoliiifflhe rte.
cessitf Chatalw-iis eiiited-tor-iniaing the ireopri by*
authority). Sir, it is tecaute I fear this position of Dr.
Doyle's being brought iisto practical opetation in this.
country—because I am'afraid of-this potici bemg in-
troduced into the civil 'polite °ilk' State--:thdt -I am
adierse to the idmissitin'of ROmiliftithaliii. rirpolitr.-
cal power. ThiS is a doctriae.-thepriedeef opts'atioa
of which. ti its full eztent, would be cubes' sise'of all
our libeitids. Give 'me security against the possibili• y
of, this lutfindtt tity, 'sn'iliceli in the opldithrof• a Ca.
tholic Tr lei, bent' int roJiicid ' into 'this. country, and
then 1 will tell you that I know of nothing personal to
the character of his Majestrii Itornin.Catholic subjeA...
that shinildesclude them from a %hate in the-legisla-
tion of the country—(Hear). It is not against than at
men that I war, but as the professors of tl.e principles
they hold-as the professors tif 'a religion which is a reli•
gion of arfibitleitt—(Chters): I say that it is 'a religion
of ariiiiiiiin,secaise, I most firmly belietethat it wits
not be content with any burthe first place. I agreed.
therefore, entirely with the'Right Honourable Gentle-
man' oppbsite when he acid of he Rowels Catholic and
Pretest:ant 'faiths, tt.at one or the other 'of them must
have the ascendancy—(Cheers). I bilieve I quote cot-
reedy the ward, used by the Right Honoorabte Gentle-
manHeisr). There is one topic whikh has been urged
against us, and 'I think unfairly urged, byhis ItlaAtty's
Mitfsters, in the course of the discussions ;hit have
taken place on this subject s.nce they declaieJ 'them-
selves to have changed 'their opini'ons: " We have taken
the best course we cast,"says the GiOrei want; “ .1 'ye u
are not satisfied with what we ptopose, tell us what we
ought to do—let us see if you Cali 'propose any thing
better"—(Hear). nondurable • Membets may cry—
" Hear, Warr' but they need not tear'tbit I shall hot
meet the question on all the poibts I think noOstin'ate-
rial, and it I am wrong 1 shall be very happy 1,. be cor-
.rected:-.(Cheers). Well, then, !quitters ask us what
we would advise? bbw; is this quite a fait question?
—(Loud cheess) ls it a question that might to bi put
to us?—(Hear, heat.) It is quite a new state hi things,
indeed, when the &scathe 'Government vine down
and' itsk ibt Noose 'of COMMons' wh it' cool se theyire
to puesse ?:—(lleir, tulle. heir.) This 'is' quite ' a trews
.course of proceedings and lam not aware that it is in-
cumbent upon us' either to answer tire question r.s. to
put them right if they havegeine wrring--(Cheers).-.
Lei' me ieosiodihe Right Honourable Cielitlenti:in op-
posite, when he puts this question to us, of the situation
in which Le fras'placesl us. I put it to the' 1100 t to
examine the fats. fortheedepose of se loft:bated:et the
Right' Honourable Gen ileitian 'is not- piifitily: a ea e
that he has pit tit in a situation which has made it neat
to imptisslblt now to-Answer hint? The Right 'Hon.
Gitteloati conses down to this 'Hattie 'with'the smarm*
of,CatholicroncesOodalready prepared(ilea);heari
We are told that we are a deliberative assembly.; but
Ministers come down to this Hon ei and tell us, .4 Here
is the p.eaiate we' propose; aecei t it, or plunge the
countey'inte all the hotrors of a rebellion add civil
roar."—(Hear.) Now, if the situation of the country
was proved to be such as the Right Hon. ( millennia
slides, to be such as to render probable thettrent the
Right Hon. Gentleman threatens' us with it we refuse
our assent to this measure, then I say our :spasm could
be only one—(Heat)—and that one the one he desire .
'But let us first, 1 say, have'a little more IT: not that the
state of the country is such as he resin airs it to be—
(Cheers). Let it be proved to us that dime is some,
danger of rebellion in Ireland. more than their has been
fur yeats past—(Heat). If the question hatti eon put
to us by MAjesty's GOverdment six months back we
should.have been in a far different situation ; we should
then have been able to have answered the question.
Had nut Government taken the Howe and the country
bf stlipiiii, every Hon'. Member would have been ready
with an answer to the question the Ministers now put:
Had the Right H n.. Gentleman then condescended to
have asked us what he should do if we were dissatisfied
with his'preposat ? lean tell him'seh it' Would have. heel
the course I should have recommended. It would not,
Sir, have been one of opposition to the Roman Catho.
lies; tot I should probably have been disposed to have
gone much further than Malty of my Honottial&
Friends who conicientiotisly*opposd the present rhea-
sure with ma. I would have Withheld nothing froth
the Roman Catholics but a seat in Parliantent—(Hear,
hear, hear, and laughter.) I mitt perfectly well
alare that this would not hide latin satisfsetOly either
to the advocates of unlimited c,.ncesdon in this H use
ue to the Roman Catholics in licks d but
IT- ; it would
Dave been as mach es ought to havetsfen granted them,
and as much as the Protestant pottier of the crithnsu-
nity, who possessed Protestant feeling, would have been
inclined to grant. But we ate t 01.., Sir, by the Right
Hon. Secretary that if no mole bad been done than I
propose, that we sleould still have had.* Cath itic ques-
tion tilt behind. But, Sir, will the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman tell us—will he venture to make the asset tion—
.that we shalt now have no Catholic quesiorrleft behind?
if, Sir, it hiok to the Right Hon. Gentleman's speech,
and give belief to what he there utters, we shall find
that he himself thinks there will still be a Catholic ques-
tion left behind—(Hear, hear). 'That is my opinion as
dell as his; and 1 trust that there will yet be a great
reunion of Protestant mind, for the purpose of redid%
any attempted aggression upon our libettiet by the Ca.'
tholics. Sir, whatever coarse the Right lion. Gentle►
man shoilld or Might Wee penned, he should not have
come down and taken the House and country by Elf
prise-1 say by surprise, for such. is the fact as se-
gos& boils parties in this Ilouse. Sure I am that to
the HoUburibfe Gentlemen on this side of the HOuse
.sirhO hiiecoaitiatly adiocated the Catholic claims, the
measure must appear much better than they could
have caleulated upon, whilst to the Gentlemen who
eitibill:e the Protestant hiterest.it appears a great deal
porse than they could have expected—(Hear, heat).
Sir, there is another point on which I wish ti Make a
'few observations. I allude to the measure in solar as
it liffetts the highest Perionage in the State. Much has
keen said on, the subject bt the Coronation Oath; but I
will not attempt, indeed it would not beicurie me to do
so, to pronounce an opinion upon the subject. All I
6111 tai is, that a strong Opinion prevails out of, if not
In, this Waist, that the Cororratioh Oitb is directly op.'
posed to the passing of this Bill. Out of doors, must
certainly, this opinion prevails, and it hal/Peen strength.
'ened iti the minds of the people by the terms in which
his lath jeiefrd 14+40 ilwijs tole of It as Mewling
apoo him hot to agree tOnocwirtas
iinve.mperiarapsfehunnecessallt
say :lathing that may I will n*'
lineasineas and disquiet in any mind, and, least of all,
it: that
.to vildetl haye ventated to allude ; bat this 1'
Will oy, dui the,. time once Was Ain this question
would have weighed most strongly, would have been
ecinsidered Illict initttrely, before it bad been decided as
ft applatiditti'd Id hPits.teat done. There Isere) toot

v ore One Members in this House, wlSo would have
considered the fatal situation in which the Protestant
M starch of this country would be placed when diode..
t,ructionof all the bare len to admi stn ► f Roman Ca.
'thhtics to 1 ower should he accomplished. 'this cooswp
detation h.s impressed itself most t'eeply on my mind,
and has w.eigliti so stiongly with me in the decision
WOuldrotioo, Sit, it had•beest-ew,rai
deeply impressed on the minds tit his Majesty's blusi,
lets than it appears to have brew! 1 find, by reference
to the iteirsiti, s of the Right Hon; Gentleman, that ww
'are to be all ,wed to have a Wats:smut Xlmierch—(heser
and laughter)—and GOD 101bisi th ,t we should ewer
shave any other;' but-theti-he miklittbe surrounded by
CathiAlc Millittirc--(Hian hear). It 'is tree that the
•Lorif Chancellor is to be ii Protestant ; ar.d no &lot
as lung as my L .id Lyndhurst, the present Chancellor,
frotelt'etii pa/bridle' interests i f the Protestant Church
will 'be 'duly Ishii 'tare o'=-ILtughter): there he
too, some grand contrivance in the 8.11, tiy• whieflTa
Commis-ion is to he estahished in order -vi takeouts
that the Pierre Minister of it.eCi.-ivn; b.isits Catholic,
does fit timptisperly Cisprisn'or.his patOonige.' There
Are some other parts of the Bill swhiClil aus'equallr
at a loss to underst end how they can vote of any, teal
service to Protestant security; out ne doubt we shall
have some erplanetion of iii m, and I ,::all not, viers.,
forei•d4:4l updn'thetriftr Vier. I should.not have de'
•tainid the Hour 'so long.:-(heir)—had I not, in tot-
mon with a large poition of his Majesty's sulietts, en-
tertained a d.e..d of the consequences of Vie impoititit
a enure now 'submitted tto conrideration o f the
House. • If it is to pass, I trust that it w ill have All the
ben ficial consequences the Cieveinateirt seem to anti.
ciliate from it. No min can mive sincerely. wish to
see.all the desires of his Majesty's Miaistervaccont,
plashed than I do upon this suilect ; but it is, Sir, be.
cause I die not, b. L tube I cannot, believe that the mead
sure WM be produvove of the atnici,ated gond, that I
sic sit give it my most decided opposition. Much has
byes, saidin this floshe•and elsewhere of the par omits'
have belei formed to cons, quente of the course that hay
been taken by his Nlajesty's Minot:is, and of the pros-
pects and view s f these patties. For 'instill haveno
hesitation in saying that, if the measures of Ministers
on othei questions ate such as I can conscientiously ap.
pore of, these measures Oral have my support. 'filet
I say.' however mock I may d.ffer with his Majesty's
Ministers on this a:A.O6e, gie.it• Constitutional quew
dints. I stair still; huA ever, feel myself in that situa.
lion a hich I ti list I have always (wasp ed in rhos Houses
that of being• at liberty fearlessly to oppose theitoon
9nestiohs on which we differ. At the same time; how.
wits., that I shall take upon individual measures the
course I think beat to pursue for the good of the coon.
t2y, and may thus suprost-a nieasuse.plopoted by I:is
Majesty's Ministers—at the same time.' sat that I shall
do this, Ish 81.1 ci-ase to feel great disttusteteaiteclty
recent events, in all public Men. If stir 'explanation can
hen after be given of the conduct adopted of hiteby his
Majesty's Ministers,l shall be teady roleceive it with
what-set degree'•ol'credit. I may think it entitled•to. toot
at the same time 1 feel that th'e confidence which I le-
posed in public men has received% blow Irons which it
can never recovir.

mole=
internam hats.
is a fear that will be always on my mind.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUER—I stand
nearly in the same titillation with my Honourable Friend
who has just sat down, inasmuch as I have heti no op--
pottunity before the present of addressing.the Mute
upon this subject. I shell not trespass long upon the
attention ct the House, nor 'do I rise to complain of the
conduct of my Hon. Friend who last addreiseit. the
House, fot I believe him to be actuated by the .move
conscienti..us conviction of the propriety and justice of
the course lam pursuing. I only ask from hint lore-
turn that he will permit me to have the same 'latency
of opinion in the adoption of the course I am now pur-
suing as he claims, and as he is in justice • entitled to
claim, for himself in that which he has adopted. 'I re-
vret that my Honourable Friend should, for their con-
duct on the present occasion, withdraw his confidence
from those with whom he has been lot merly connected,
and particularly:do I regret that what his passed should
have given rise to a feeling of dietrutt in the conduct of
all public men. But I console myself by reaming-that,
if the mftstne ititroduced be f. ended on justice and pro-
priety, the time is not far distant when its benefits wdl
be so apparent that my. Honourable Fliend hierstelf,
possessed air he it with true English feelings, will re-
joice tO see the rapid 'pietist of peace and happiness in
lieland; hr will rejoice to see that the interests of his
country are advanced, although contr y to his ex-
pectation. That will be my consolation for having
taken the course re commanded from the Throne...-
My Honourable Friend has to-night 1.1-en into t. e
very same error which all who have yet touched on that
pan of the subject have fallen into. My lionositable
Friend has not denied, any more than those Honour-
able. Members who ertertain the same opinions with
himself. that the peace of the country is in peculiar and
imminent dense, ; and he; like all others, has most care-
lull) G ',borne to point out the course which he would
recommend in the place of that which foe in the ground
fso much complaint. He has attempted to defend
himself, and to state reasons for forbearing to answer
the call made by his Majesty's Government fot any
Honourab e Member to point out a better measure than
we have proposed. But all who have heard my Hon.
Friend's argument must coucede that nothing awe
inconclusive had been urged even by those that pre.
ceded him. My Honourable Friend seems to complain
of Government having been prepated with a remedy ;
hot would it have been right for his Majesty's Ministers
to have come down to this House, and to have stated
that the countey, was in great danger, and then to try
the opinion of the House as to what course they should
pursue? Would it have been right for the Executive,
who, it must be remembered, is responsible for the
measures it advises, to hate appeared so utterly help-
less, so utterly. insensible of what the proper remedy for
the evil was, as not to be able even to make a sugges-
tion upon it ? Government appears to me to have taken
the proper course when, seeing the danger which did
exist, it provided the remedy for it, and came to the de.
termination of which my Hon. Friend complains, a de.
termination which will ensure the safety of the empire.
'e opinion that bad been declared by his Majesty i
Ministers to Parliament is now more entitled to credit,
from having on former occasions always strenuously
supported- a course opposite to that we have now taken.
I say again that, seeing the exigency in which the
country is placed, we are entitled to call on my Hon.
Friend', who admits that exigency, and who, by his
speech this night, has shown that be sees the danger to
the fullest extent, to say what other measure ought to
be adopted. But my Hon. Friend, I must repeat, lite
all those who have addressed themselves to this question,
has forborne, or been unable to answer to that call..
This, I think, is the strongest argument that I can urge
to prove this the ftseatu(e befbie us; if trot the wisest
that might be proposed, is at least such a one as no
Hon..Alember.uppOsed so it hid been able to find i aulP