Star.
London, England, 1826-03-07 00:00:00

THE ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.

Sir HENRY HARDINGE said, he was to bring
forward this subject, and he felt that the House and
the country soul& be Satisfied with the details. The
House would be please.' to observe, that the sea-service
vote was transferred from the navy estimate to the ord-
nance ; and for the future, it mould be included in the
ordnance exiraordinaries, under %%bid) head the expen-
diture Would be classed. The o!,je t of Government
in directing the transfer, WAS not only to sa.re the
public money, but to place the direction of the total
expenditure-under the cont. of of one hoerd. Another
advant age WAS, that the several charges connected with
the erection and repairs of buildings, Sec. wool,' be
brought into one estimate. For the last century it had
been the .custom for this vote to be taken by the navy
estimate. The chief objection to this was, that the
eontt ol Was taken in the navy, Though the vote affected
the ordnance only. The amount of the navy vote this
year was 98,183/. making 3,8831. more this year
than the last, owing to the transmission of expense
from the navy department to the ordnance. The
total sum to be voted amounted to 1007,6711.
being an into ease this year of 45 4951. AS compared with
the past year. It was the intention cf the Government
to make an increase ie the artillery regiments of 70 men
to each company. It had been the intention to make
the increase 80 men to each company, but that was
abandoned for•the present. By the present augments-
tion there would o:,ly be 350 men in addition. It was
n)t with any -anticipation of war, however, that this
increase was called for. The fact was, that the artil-
lery regiments were considerably disproportioned to the
rest of the army. The augmentation was proposed
and adopted in pursuance cf the recommendation of
the finance committee of 1817.- The artillery corps en-
gaged in the colonies had been found insufficient to
care yon that branch of the service. There were onlyl
40 companies on foreign service. The proportion in time
of war was, one artillery man to nine soldiers in theline;
and in peace the proportion was reduced to one to- 15.
-It was rather unlucky, he confessed, to be obliged to
appliy to the House for any increase during a* time of
tranquillity ; but as the present was a case of necessity,
he hoeed the House would not oppose the augmentation
he proposed. The companies which he proposed to
increase would not have any additional officers. In
the academy at Woolwich, it appeared that there were
40 cadets; in the estimate the number put down was
80. In the engineer department, there were no officers
on half-pay : this was a good state of things, and he
had further to add, that in the artillery there were but
16 second captains on temporary half-pay. With respect
to the extraordinaries, he had to observe, that the in
crease in Ireland this year amounted to 16,9191. on ac-
count of the survey which was prosecuting in Ireland,
sand on account of the change in the currency which

I

had lately been effected in.tbat *Ott,. Warts IAN!l
to take the present occasion ipt oNsairwelbat the Itt.:i
survey was gding on extremely vittl, and' vias likely
lead to the insist beneficial results. It was ,ndertak&
at the express wish of the country gentleWien 0101014
In order to save the expensebf introducing sappers AV.
miners from England and elsewhere; it was,daftmineti
to employ the soldiers to do their duty; by whichmeans a very cOnsidertible expense was sawed to
tki
counts y, and the undert, king was proceedingtorith eve-7
prospect of success. The sum proposed to be rot(
for English barracks amounted to 1d.5,011/i.; for thr-..
in Ireland. the sum to ba expended was 135,0781. lea v.
ing a total increase on English barracks of 87;2561.—.
This .ncrease was mainly to be attributed to the rem‘tv I
and intended erection of barracks at the King's lote,‘•.
It was designed to remove to the rear of the Kiwi.,
Mews instead of to the front. .There was a very gam

diminution in the ba: rack department of England.. At
one time we had
.accom.tiodation for 170,000 mer,

which accomrnoda.l4.n was now reduced to 42,000.

In Ireland there was during•t' er war accommodation
the barracks r 80,000 men ; at present there was :Ic.
comm dation for only 36,000; mak ng a total re.luctira
of 171,000/.—a reduction gre tter than the Finarce
Committee had contemplated. In the milita!y stt•re
tn-anch f,,r Great Britain and Ireland there wai a rr.

duction of 11,3091. less than the preceding ye.tr ; and
he (Sir El. Hardinge) felt it due to the Hon. ltirmber
for Mo arose to acknowledge that this reduction was
owing to his suggestions. Respectrog the supplemen.
tary estimate, he was enabled to ray, that in conse.
quence of having placed this branch under the control
of competent overseers, m rny military wor ks and built'.
ings had been very properly abolished. They inspected
the diff.nent works in progress, and decided on vele
considerable reductions. With regard to military hcs•

pitals, there must be some additional expense incurred
in building some and repairing others. He was quite
sure that the House would agree with him in the ofe,ite,
that the health and lives of our soldiery should be at.
tended to. It was then propoiNi that the stun ni
5'2 5491. he granted to His Majesty, for defraying the
salaries of officers, which vote was carried.

The Re-olution eras then put and carried. , •
For the Allowances on the Compassionate List—those

of his Majesty's Royal Bounty—and the Pensions to
Officers for Wounds

£190.79$

ir. HU 4E objected, that there was a progressive increase in
this item since the year 1116.
Lord PALMERSTON could assure the House that no claim
was allowed without a proper title.
The Resolution was then put and carried.
For Three Royal Veteran Battalions, and Tyro Veteran
Companies to be disbanded

. . E 9.3,6131

Mr..IIUNIE enquired whether there existed a power to com-
pel the service of the Veterans in case of.evnergency.
Lord PA I.MERSTON answered in the affirmative. •
The Question was then put and carried.
Mr. H. GURNEY stated a case of some hardship upon the son
of an Officer, who had served for fifty years.
Lord PA LfiIERSTON 'hewed that the treatment which the
Gentleman in question h-od experienced implied no imputation
whatsoever upon his character.
Mr. Hll 4 R said that Lord Palmerston had Tea Accounts re-
maining since last year. They were likely to tease the public. In
1808, it was said that three years would be sufficient to tattle the
entire. He wished to know wiktber this year would litast:ient
fur the purpose ? =• •
Lofd PA LNIERST ON hoped that it would be stet for
.. 4
the great mus of accounts. Some extraordinary owl t, per.

Imo`_

~::~;

complained of the expense treated by the rating
and disbanding of corps, Veterans did not serve more than three
4.4001-iseiTetil-pay for life. Would this be the
me, he asked, with the seeps whose expense had just been stated
"' Lord-PALMERSTON said that the Oscsrs who were raised
from half-pay would retire epee half pay. •
The House then resumed, and the Re fl.& was ordered to be
received to.morrow--(this day).
On the question being put,
Sir J. YORKE regretted that he did not see in the
estimates any thing proposed for the repair of the dock-yard of Pill.
A fort had been erected there, when there was noihing to pro-
tect ; but now that the place wanttd defence the works were failing
to decay.
Sir H.'HARDIN'JE answered, that plans and esti-
mates bad been prepared for the works mentioned by the Hon.
Gentleman, but the Board of Ordnance had not thought it expedient,
in the present situation of the country, to bring them forward.
THZ BUDQZT.

Mr. BERNAL said, that certain financial diffico.-
ties had been spoken of as existing in the country, but
that they were not considered reasons for not bringing
forward these estimates. Now it was all very well to
say that it was "necessary .to have seventy or eighty
thousand men, and a proper attendant we:Oriel, but he
would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor
of the Exchequer, wl3. ther be would be able to satisfy the House
of his baying sufficient funds to answer aU the votes they had passed.
AU the estimates had been Increased, and he (M. B.) had beard
rumours afloat, that there would be a considerable falling off in the
revenge, particularly in the Customs. The Right Hon. Gentleman
must be well aware of the reports afloat.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that it was
Mt his fault that he had not been able, at alt 'earlier ferfod of the
fission, to execute his purpose of laying the floaritial situation of
dm country before the House. Various circuntatsucea had oc-
fatrred to make a postponement necessary, witismet amp odesireon
hie part to cause delay. At present he should eontibt.lititiailf with
assuring the Houourable Member, that on that day siiiiintliht he
would positively state his view of the whole quelsion ,f)f our
finance; and he trusted he woud then be able to sbeir.disalithise,
that with all due allowance for any defalcation in eV &finite,
arising from the circumstances of our commerce end manufactures,
the revenue of the country was fully adequate to meet all the de-
mand which had hitherto been made, or would, during the Ses-
sion, be made on Parliament—(Hear, hear, bear).

,~-.

Mr. HUbIE lamented to Ana that no dispositimilinisM4,ss the
pirt of his Majesty's Government to diminish our:Military expels-
' diture. On the contrary, it was continually increased. • And'oot
only was it increased, but the House was told, that in the wit
year in an probability it would be still further bacreneed. Goder
such circumstances, the country must necessarily be °destroyed by
the pressure of taxation. A much less force than that at present
employed would answer all our purposes. What was the use of
maintaining thirty-Ave companies of artillery, when ten would be
amply suilicient? He protested in the strongest imamate against
these large establishments ; and mere particularly with reference to
the establishments of the year 171,5, with which he contrasted them.
What was the use of having two establishments for the ordnance,
one at the tower, the other in. Pall-mall? Even the expense of
communication between the one and the other was a considerable

•
burden on the public. •
Sit H. HARDIN GE, in contravention of the statements, of :he
Hon. Member fur Aberdeen, pointed out ID detail various r.-diee•
tions in tho present estimates, as compared with the *minium 0e
former years. In the year 1620 they exceeded the present byl
67,0001.; in the year 1821, by 193,6001.
Sir JOSEPH YORK had always opposed the reductiott of
Officers' salaries. When the great Minister, called " the Pilot who
weathered the Storm," consented to reduce the salaries of Offir.ers,
he never made a greater yaw. The Gallant Otter would thither
cut awn the deed might, than cement to lose a shilling from the
I pay of Dilms in the army or navy. His Majesty's Ministen
ought to stand by their active agents and not cut away *blies as
they did in 1792.
Sir R. FERGUSSON said, it was painful to differ from the lion.
Member for Aberdeen, but he thought the artillery should be the
last corps reduced. It was in his opinion the best arm of the service.
Mr. HOBHOUSE regretted to And that it was intended to re-
• .ain a battalion of the Guards at thy. Mews, at Charing-Cross. It