Star.
London, England, 1818-05-20 00:00:00

1.41 P %
. 41,
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• • :a._

9 %
1911,9. • 91

was not in thelltvt lecFtioeiptet a proposition of
this kind' nibinlnt”or:illad he heard a
Word of it until his arrival at the House this evening.
There was no adequate reason assigned for it, though
some possibly may be collected from the circum-
stance of her Majesty being detained in town. An
important part of the subject, he thought, was the
consideration of the Windsor Establishments, with a
siew to their reduction within proper limits; and
also a due provision, not only with respect to the
:vent of the demise of her Majesty, but with refe-
rence to the more important contingency of that of
the Prince Regent—( Hear, hear, hear.)—He should,
\-ov:ever, further suspend his judgment, until he
should have seen and considered the measure, of
filiich, on a future stage, he should fully deliver his
sentiments. 'With these reservations, he concurred
the first reading of the Rill.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL conceived the go-
posed measure to be one to which no objection, in
point of principle; could be entertained. His Noble
and Learned Friend had stated, that after the Bill
was read the first time it could be printed; and he
thought the most proper course would be for Noble
Lords to suspend their opinions until they could fully
see the measure and have it regularly before them.
It was, however, impossible for him to let one or two
points pass which fell from the Noble Lord, without
saying a few words. The Noble Earl, he under-
stimd, felt no objection to her Majesty being allowed
to add a proper number of persons to her Council ;
but he wished to know why it was proposed to do it
a different mode from that proposed by the Re.
gency Act? In that Bill, the Council, though all
official men, were not designated by their offices, but
name. The Lord Chancellor was not appointed
one of her Majesty's Council as Lord Chancellor, but
by name—as also in the Lord Chief Justice, and'
the other Members. The Members of her Majesty's
Council were therefore limited to these individuals;
and it was expressly provided by the Act referred to,,
that if any of these Counsellors should die, her Ma-
jesty, by an instrument under het hand and seal,
should appoint a successor—and in point of fact, her
Majesty has in one instance exercised that•power.—
He stated this with a view to shcw how far the prin-
ciple already obtained; though he would admit it as
matter of proper consideration, when an extension
such power was proposed. The Noble Earl oppo-
site, however, seemed to admit that Ministers may
be fairly, warranted in providing- for an extension.
The principle being already acknowledged and acted
.ipon, he did not see what possible objection could
exist as to their following the same course in the
.vent of any addition being agreed upon. With re-
gard to the question of the time, and the extent to
which the general subject should be reviewed, he re-
marked, that circumstances might arise which called
for some alteration ; but it was not therefore neces-
sary that a view should be taken beyond what the
necessity or the expediency of the case required. By
the Regency Act two ways were provided to meet
lie event of the Regent ceasing to exercise the Royal
power, and the other provided for the case which re•
garded the care and custody of his Majesty's Royal
person. The Regency was placed on the same foot-
ing as the Crown, in the event of a demise, that the
Parliament in being should continue, but if dissolved,
that the last Parliament should assemble, in order to
provide for the exigency of the case. The law there-
fore, at present, with respect to the Crown and the
Regency, was the same; but in the event of the other
illustrious Person's demise, during the exercise of the
Regency, the allotted functions would be in a sort of
abeyance. The Noble Earl's idea of rendering such
regulations or provisions perpetual, may be felt liable
a strong objection; but all that was now proposed
was to provide for the meeting of Parliament, in the
event of the particular case, as was already provided
in the case of the Crown's demise. With regard
any farther provisions, no necessity whatever exis-
ted, as the Act had already provided for these con-
tingencies, in authorising the Council to exercise the
necessary powers and authorities until Parliament
should assemble. With regard to the • particular
measure proposed, their Lordships would judge of
its necessity or fitness under all the circumstances of
the 6se; and he thought that whatever difference of
opinion may be entertained now or herefdter, the con-
sideration of any further revision, or more extensive
amendment, should not be a ground or reason for
their Lordships withholding their assent to the parti-
zular measure now proposed, should they think the
ground upon which it proceeded fair, just, and rea-
sonable--(hear.)

•
Earl GREY spoke shortly in explanation. He ob-
served, that what the Noble Earl had stated with re-
spect to the authority possessed by her Majesty under
the existing Act, related merely to the tilling up va-
cancies in the Council, which was dissimilar to what
was now proposed, which went to provide for the
adoption of several new Members at once to the Conn-
- With respect to the other points, he could not
regard the Noble Earl's statement as satisfactory, as
caiitiously abstained from assigning any reason as
J the necessity of the new measure. In one of the
lauses of the Bill referred to, there was a provision
continuing the care and custody of the King's
person in the Council, notwithstanding the demise of
her Majesty ; and he Still thought there was no ade-
istc necessity assigned for the adoption of the mea-
sure now proposed.

The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that on
occasion of the second reading he would state all
reasons which warranted the adoption of the
measure, and fully answer all the objections he had
heard against it.
The Bill was then read the first time, ordered to
printed, and read the second time on Thursday
and the Lords to be summoned for that day.

Lord ERSKINE said, that for reasons which he
Ad already explained, he now proposed to intro-
nice a bill for declaring the law with respect to
ne power of justices of the peace, to apprehend and
hold to bail, or commit for libel, bcfure any bill of
indictment was found. The preamble of the bill
stated, that whereas doubts on the law had arisen,
and the bill v.ent on to declare that the Magistrates
`lad uo such power. He moved that it be now read
first time/ and should move the second reading on
is day sdn►tight.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that in putting
questiOn on the first reading of this bill, he wished

it not to be understood that he entertained Any doubt much longer, it would at last come to such a pais
whatever on the subject of the law. that no Minister would be ;able to face the difficult,:
What had happened in other countries spewed what
The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to
be read a second time on Tuesday next. was to be ' expected if the currency of this cottatty
COTTON FACTORIES. was net restored to a sound and wholesome state-,
The House went into a Committee on the Cotton What had happened in France during the circulation'
of the assignats, in America during the war, and
Factories' Bill, when Mr. WARRtx having been heard
what was now going on in Russia, shew what we'
is favour of the Petitioners, and the question being
mitlusthe expect it the present system Red
ontinued.
put, whether Mr. FUR/1180N should also he heard,
Lord KENYON opposed the hearing, and Lord In a the value of the paper rouble had. now
ROSSLYN supported it. fallen to one fourth of its original value. The House
The Earl of LAUDERDALE chewed, that Lord
ought,, therefore, very seriously to consider the na-
Kenyon had determined before he came to the House tare of- the system to which these postponements
tended—. For his own part, he could hardly believe
not to hear Counsel, and read a letter from his Lord-
that the Bank and the Chancellor. or the Exchequer
ship to that effect. His Lordship then argued, from
the impolicy of the measure, and the mischievous were really sincere in their expectation that cash pay-
effects it would have on trade, that the petitioners menu could be resumed next year.
ought to be heard. He proved that the evidence Mr. HAaIMERSLEY Maintained that there was
no reason to suppose that the Bank and the Chancel.before the House was contradictory and inconsistent,
if not false in the highest degree, and thence urge'
for of the Exchequer were insincere in their expects-
the necessity of admittin evidence on oath, tion, as well as in their desire, to resume cab pay-
Earl MANYERS wasgin favour of hearing the pe-
ments at the period fixed by this ;till. The causes
dtioners' Counsel.
a:sigr.ed fur continuing the Restriction Ict another
ycer, were, in Ina opinion, quite sufficient.
The Bishop of CHESTER opposed the hearing of
"
I Counsel, on the ground that the simple question was, ir. TIERNEY-wisheel to ask a question relative
whether Parliament would protect those who could
to 'the transactions between the Bank and Govern-
not protect themselves--(//ear,. hear),—and who- r mem, but was at some loss in doing so at present, as
they children should be permitted to work more than the Chancellor of the Exchequer was trot in his place.
ped
twelve hours? He had seen the misery ofthe Factories Ile ho ,however, that the Honourable Gentleman
himself.
enftneaLushington) would be able to give him the-in-
The LORD CHANCELLOR,sfter observing fiat tion he wished for. His question related to
the 9,000,000/. of Exchequer Bills due to the Bank.
the law of the land already sanctioned a degree 4
At an early period in the Session provision had been
interference between employers and their workmen,
as in the instance of master and apprentice, and that made for the payment of 6,000,0001. of this sum,
parents might be compelled on application to a Ma-
but no vote had yet been proposed for the remaining
3,000,0001. He therefore wished to know what ar-
thatgistrate to treat their children properly, contended,
rangement was intended with respect to the 3,000;0031.
sel ; the Learned Prelate had given his own evidence
it was but fair to admit evidence and hear Coun-
and whether it was to the paid in the course of the
and ought to hear that of others. The evidence before present year? The 3,000,0001. had been advanced
by the Bank without interest, and if that aunt was
the Committee of the House of Commons was most
'contradictory, if evidence it could be called at all. repaid the Bank would be enabled to diminish its is •
The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that all evidence sues. •-Ile was the more anxious to know what was
to be done as to the repayment of the 3,000,0001. be-
thebefore Parliament was contradictory, and mentioned
cause, in the event of its being paid back in the pre-,
evidence on the subject of the chimney-sweepers;
sent year, and the issues of the Bank continued at
he therefore thought it inexpedient to enter into an
the present amount, it would be the act of,the Bank
investigation that might lead to endless discussion:
and not of the Government ; andek gArlit' akai
be thought they had already sufficient evidence be-
would be responsible for the consequences of istrapug•
fore them to come to a decision, which did not turn
on any matter of fact that had been disputed. He up the amount of their paper issues to the present
enormous extent. But if the, Bank did not issue this
doubted the inference that the Noble Earl (Lauder-
sum again as fast as it was paid in by Goearrantert,
dale) had drawn respecting the mischievous effects
then there would be reason t e think they were earnest
of this measure on trade; he thought it would have
in their preparations for resuming cash payments.
no such effect ; but if it should, that was another
He presumed it was intended to pay off the three
question for consideration on other grounds. Trade
millions between this and next Christmas; hut upon
could not be improved by overworking man or child,
(Hear, hear, hear.) this point he wished to have information. •
Mr. LUSHINGTON, in reply to theAtteitltsiof
The Earl of LAUDERDALE said, that if labour
the Right Honourable an, was vnalifed-fo
were regulated at all, reference should be had to the -
state that arrangements nett for payier off
personal strength of each individual, and no general
both the 6,000,0001. slid the 50000, . ..en precise
res rule could be relied on.--The employer was the per-
time of payment was not yet sett z Xseto *hat son most likely to be acquainted with the different
degrees of strength possessed by his workmen, and
the Bank would do in uencp theatireintelte
most likely to avoid over-rating them, with a view to that was a PeriscdY t queitaleieSut he had
his own advantage. He again insisted that the in- no doubt. that thee/nee of thaeßunk would be
consistency of the evidence already produced sheaved guided by their desire to resume that patefehts as
soon as circumstances admitted.- --1 •••• ee-
the necessity of hearing the petitioners.
Mr. TIERNEYee-It retuned then; me /*had sup. The Marquis of LANSDOWN agreed that a great
sed, ai evil did exist in the excessive labour of children, and po that the three didlionrweitete be rep d. But
whence was that sum to be paid? Noprovisidiated
'that it would be proper to introduce some measure
ailer on the subject—but he was the more convinced that yet been made bi. the House for that petrpose,
• ' 1 the petitioners Counsel and evidence ought to be had any vote for it bees hitherto proposed,
heard, and that the House should not legislate in the Mr. SAMUEL THORNTON said, it - was emit-
tainly true that prevision had been made try...tbe
dark. He did not, however, feel any apprehension
on the round of the mischief which it was alleged
House for paying the six millions, but that no such
gge
the measure would produce to trade, though it might rovision had yet been made for the three Millions.
&h
alter the course of the manufacture ; and thus ren-
e Bank had applied to the Chancellor of the Ex-
dered it the more necessary to hear evidence on the chequer for repayment of the latter sum, and had
been assured that it would be paid in the cceirseof
subject.—The question was then put and carried in
the afire
rative, when it was agreed that further evi-
the present year. As for the responsibility which the
dente should be heard in a Committee up stairs to-
Bank would incur with respect to their issues after
morrow.—Adjeurned.
the repayment of this sum, he for one was ready to
meet it. Certainly some measures were necessary 'on
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
the part of the Benk in order to prepare for the re-
,
Lord RANCLIFFE presented two Petitions, each signed sumption of each payments ; but whether it wan the
by twenty inhabitants of Nottingham, praying for Reform, duty of the Bank to retain the sums repaid to them
Annual Parliaments, and Universal Suds Re and or- by Government without re-issuing any part of them,
tiered to lie on the table.
The East India Shipping Bill was committed, and the Peu. was a matter for future consideration. As to iihat
tion presented last Session on this subject was referred to the was the precise amount a the issues...which the Bank
Committee.—Report received, and ordered to be taken into ought to make on such an oc.casiom no mesa meld
further consideration at Friday, and the Bill to be printed. give an opinion. But by peadent send disentennot-
The East India Marriages' Bill was read a second tune.—
Ordered to be committed on Friday. duct on the part of the• Bank, all the dangerTnilllCh
it Petition was presented from the Parish of Newhaven, the Right Honourable Gentleman thfr,Tie-
cipateJ might be prevented, and eke liacrnoTeVsalt,
against the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill.—Read, and ordered
they would be prevented. '
to lie on the table.
Mr. O. BUTLER presaged a Petition from the Parish of . .. .
St. Mary's, in the town of Kilkenny, Ireland, praying for the Mr. TIERNEY said he never meant to say that
Repeal of the Window TA, and other Assessed Taxes.—Read, any precise sum could he fixed upon'beyond which i'
and ordered to lie on the table. the issues of die Bank should not extend. All that ' The Sugar Bounties Bill was read a third time and passed. he meant was, that it was necessary
pared. should those issues
The Glass Manufacturers' Bill was read a third time, and
should be diminished very, much from their present ,'
On the motion ?or the third reading of the Savings Banks 13111, amount. As to the precise eatent'of the diminution
Mr. W. LAMBE objected to the clause for enticing the no doubt the Bank themselves were the hest judges.
deposits. As the Bill now stood, it was not allowed to deposit At present the issues were excessive and ought to he
any sum above 100/. the first year, and 5'.;:. it each succeeding
reduced, and the respersibility of lowering them to
year. Many cases might occur in which labourers might be
enabled to deposit larger sums. He moved that the objection. be proportioned to the vt-ehts• of the country rested
able clause be left out, and one inserte,!, amhori.ing the de- with the Bank. At preee nt he would not press the
posit to the amount of too/. the first year, and 501. every sec- eubject farther, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer
ceeding year.
was not present. But helmist observe, that till now
Mr. LUSIIINGTON said, if the Hon. Gentleman was
l
really desirous of the amendment which he proposed, it would. the lip ise had never rictilyed any notice of the ap-
be better to postpone the third reading of the Bill to some future
day, as his Right lion. Friend, who had introduced this Bill, Stl'ilsai. lane.
was not now in the House. • •
Sir M. W. RIDLEY hoped, as the Bill bad been some time Mr. LUSHINGTOIt--The reason why P the a li-
under discussion, that the third reading would not be postponed. cation had'not been mentidned was,' that the mattes'P
After a few words from Mr. B. WILIZABAIt, General THORN.- was stilt undereriatibubeitveen the Bank and his
tow, Lord Laaceta.r.s and Mr. Goat LANGTON, the further Right Hon. Fri l Buce was quite sure it was in-
consideration of the Bill
•
The Slave Trade Bill was committed, and the Report re-
tended to pay or** liege Millions.
'
ceived, and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Lord FOLKESTONE said, that from the way the
Friday, and the Bill to be printed.
Restriction had been renewed two years ago, and was
again renewed, he despaired of ever seeing cash
Mr. P. MOORE presented a Ictition from certain Proprie-
tors of Drury-Lane Theatre, setting forth that a large debt had pnaoyviments renewed by the- Bank. •
The Bill was then read a third tithe and passed.
been incurred by that concern, and praying that a Bill might he
brought in to regulate and secure their interests.—Read, and
ordered to be referred to a Select Committee.
On the motion of Mr. BENNET, certain
On the motion of Lord DEERHIJEST, the Worceiter G.. 3 RETURNS FROM PUBLIC
•OFFICES.
relative to the Fees of. Clerks of Assize, and other
Light Bill as-as read a second One. Returns,
Mr. FINLAY presented a Petition from the Senatus Aces. relative
which were ordernd-some'tAme • ' ago, were or-
Copy of Glasgow University, praying that their right to a
Copy of Publications might be protected.—Read, and ordered leered to be made fortliviraie
to e printed.
. Mr. BROUGHAM cent plained,..that a similar on-
b
RANK RESTRICTION'S.
de- for the production of papers from the Tax Office,
The Bank Restriction Bill was read a third time. made long since, was aoeyet complied with.
M- WYNNE eibeery. 4 that it was a very gross
On the question that the Bill should pass,
Mr. FINLAY said, that although he admitted that . bseeremaCh'd of duty, ehan.slan,..Clerks of Public Offices
the resumption of cash payments by the Bane would .
necessarily be attended with many inconveniences, Rued now
to coralcierite hardly necessary to make
yet it must be evident that the longer the resumption s o ereePtaeathe Hrmse till a second order was
made upon the sulo'jeet. The persons who wet e guilty'
of this neglect ought to
was delayed, these difficulties would increase. The
tie called to. the Bar of the
House was now called upon to postpone still further
the period of resumption, and if this was continued; House and pnuished. .
Mr. BROUGHAM said that he would before now