Star.
London, England, 1820-06-02 00:00:00

SPORTING INTLLLIGE.NCE.

_ .
Their Lordships then adjourned for some time during plea-
sure. On the resuming of the House,
Lord, KENYON presented a Petition from the Townships
of Great and Little Bolton and their vicinity, in Lancashire,
priying that some mealures may be adopted, tending to afford
facilities to the advantage of the Trade and Commerfe as well as
to the Agricultural interests of the country, as the Petkioners
felt that these great national interests were eventually insepara-
ble. His Lordship obseived, that the Petitioners were respect-
able persons, and what they advanced, he thought, was deserv-
ing of the serious consideration of Parliamcnt.—Being read, the
Petition was ordered to lie on the table.
Lord CA WDOR presented a Petition from the Corporation
of Daverford-West, praying a temporary suspension of the
Coal Duties therein, on the ground set forth by the Petitioners.
—Ordered to lie on the table.

ASCOT-HEATH RACES, (Titian Div).
The Kma again honoured the Course with his presence, and
the company were as numerous as on the first day. .
Sweepstakes of logs. each; colts, Sat. 71b. fillies, ast.2lb.
Duke' of York's Dominie Sampson - - - 0 1
Duke of Itotland'i colt, by Haphazard - - - 0 2
5t02 on the Duke of Rutland's colt. After the dead heat,
5 to 4 on him.

The Windsor Forest Stakes was walked over for by the Duke
of York's runt.
The Gold Cup, value lOOgs. a Subscription of P.Ogs. each (Five
Subscriben).—Two miles and a half.
Mr. Fraser 's Champirion, 4-yrs-old, Bst. 9.1 b. - - I
Duke of Turk's Banker, 4-yrs-old, Bst. 219. - - - 2
Mr. West's Alpha, 4-yrs-old, Bst. 21b. - - - 3
This was the greatest sporting race here.-7 to 4on Banker—
Any odds agst Alpha.
A Plate of L'3o. fur ;zll ages.—lleats, one mile and a half.

Mr. Turner's Coral - - - - - 4 4 1 1
Duke of !tutlard's bay colt, by Waxy - - 1 2 dr
Mr. Sadler's Defiance - - - - - 2 1 3
Ur. Stephenson's Merrymaker - - - 3 3 2dr

S to ion the Duke ot Rutland's, and 2 to 1 after the beat.—
Mance the favourite after the second heat, and after the third
heat Y to 1 co Coral.

FEMALE FASHIONS FOR JUNE.

Wawa* Dattos.—A high robe, composed of jscconot mus-
lin ; the body i s plain ; the waist long, and finished by a ticket,
which terminates in three points the jaChet is edged Nei. it rich
work ; the body is made up to the throat, but without a collar ;
the fronts fold across, and are trimmed with partings of net ;
row of rich work surrounds the puffings on the side next to the
!Louie:el-, and a row of narrow lice edges them on that next to
the bust. The skirt, which is open, is trimmed up the sides
and round the bottom to correspond with the bust. The half- !
sleeves are of the same descrif Con, but upon a larger scale; the
long sleeve, which is of an easy Lints, is ornamented at the
bottom to correspond with the trimming. The pelisse worn
ever this dress is composed of lemon-coloured and white figured
sarsnet, and lined with white sarsnet ; the skirt is a good deal
gored, and moderately full ; the body is tight to the shape ; the
waist long, and ornamented with rosettes on the hips; tie col-
lar is of a new form, high, bat not pointed behind, and very
shallow towards the frcnt ; the sleeve is rather tight to the arm,
and falls very far over the hand. Th., trimming goes enTirely
round the pelisse; it consists of a wreath, which we cannot call
leaves. but which resemble them a little in f Vim; the outside
of each is composed of plain grits de Naples, the middle is Ailed
up by a satin puff. This trimming has a singular but tasteful
effect. Head-dress, a bonnet composed of white crape over net ;
the crown is low; the brim very large, and stands out a good
deal front the face; it is edged with blond; the crown is orna-
mented with roses; a rich rihbon passes-under the chin, and
ties let a full bow on one side. Limerick gloves. Pale lemon-
coloured kid half-boots.—Frorosfttkermann'sßepssitory.
Erman Mass.—A round dress, composed of white figured
lace over a white satin slip ; the corsage is long in the' waist, has
a little fulness at the bottom of the back, and is cut moderately
low round the bust, which is ornamented with a falling lace
tucker. Short sleeves, composed of alternate palings of pink
gilts de Naples and white lace; the puffins are placed cross-
wise, and there are three of each. :Ilse bottom of the skirt is
trimmed with two rows of white- satin leaves placed perpendi-
cularly ; they are headed by a wreath of field flowers. The
hair is dressed in very full curls in' front, drawn up behind in a
full tuft ea the crown of the head, and fastened with a jewelled
comb. A plume of feathers, of a beautiful and novel descrip-
tion, is placed on one side of the head ; they are ostrich, but the
middle of each is covered with down ; one feather is of uncom-
mon length, the two others are shorter. Necklace and tar-rings,
diamonds. White kid gloves, and white satin shoes.—fhid.
FAI3CY BALL DRESS.— White slip of grits de 2s'ajies, under a
frock of fine net, richly embroidered with silver, and trimmed in
the most splendid manner with geranium colour and roses of real
silver lama. Head-dress, a diadem bandeau of diamonds, with
a regal coronet and plume of white feathers. White shoes of
figured gros de Napks, and white kid gloves.—Frans La Belk
etssentl,lfe.

MORNING Daasa eon:posed of white muslin, made high to the
throat ; the body rather long, and finished round the collar with
a broad frill; a thin clear muslin habit-shirt worn under, like-
wise trimmed with a worked frill; the shoulders ornamented
with the same material, and headed with a broad plaitedeord ;
the sleeves long and narrow, completed at the hands with simi-
lar worked muslin ruffles, to correspond with the ne.k and
shoulders; round the bottom, and up the front of the skirt,
full pufflogs of clear muslin, confined fancifully up the centre of
the front with a rich cord; the same Mattaill brought in a
waving line round the bottom of the skirt. An elegant morning
cap, of fine thread lace, brought under the chin, and finished
with a rich and beautiful cluster of artificial flowers.

livasixu Dimas.— A beautiful rich gauze, with an elegant
satin sprig worn over a white satin slip ; the body to St tight to
the form; the back plain and ,bread; ;he front low on the
butt, with stomacher-front, laced in the centre with narrow
ribbon, and finished with a point a little below the waist: the
satin bad/ edged round the top with a broad Valenciennes lace,
very full ; the sleeves short and full, confined round the arm
with a lace to currespond t the sleeve trimmed with pipings of
satin, crossed to confine the folds. The skirt long, and richly
trimmed round the bottom with full pipings of satin, very
inroad, and malted with white satin ribbon, crossing each divi-
don. Shots white satin.—The head-dress:—The hair Worn
very high behind, and confined with two broad plaits on the
crown of the head ; full curls on the side, with a full cluster of
white roses, intermixed' with apple blossom.—Lady's Afagane.
Thid Numher of The Lady's ifagn-ne, besides the plates of
dresses, Ste. is embellished with a mast.•rly engraving by IIeATN,
f.-em a painting by Srornano, illustrative of The Monastery.

Mr. Gas; ear and family have arrived in town, at their house
b.titer-street. We regret to state, that this venerable Patriot,
whose eloquence has so long shed a lustre ever his country, is
is a very reduced state of health.
The Committee appointed by the House.of Lords
to examine the suite of the foreign Commerce of the
country, sat yesterday, far the first time since their
appointment, for dispatch of business. The Mar-
quis of LANSDOWN was in the Chair. There was a
ful: attendance of members, tWenty•iiine being pre-
sent. The first witness examined %as Mr. ISAAC
w!icse examination occuried some hours.
The second witness c.111..-d was Mr. Niscs.tAN, whose
examination was, however, postponed until the next
day of meeting, in consequence of tsc 'lateness, of
the hoar, The Committee Sat y estt rday from twelve
L o'clua. until five.

The-Duke of NOitTWIJMBERLAND presented a Peti-
thin froht the Merchants and Traders of Newcastle-upon-Tyne
against any alteration in the existing Duties on WooL—Laid
on the table.

. .e. •
• remaining iq arrear during the same period; the number of new
Trials granted, and of constr. d Hides entered on the Peremes.
tory Paper ; also the numbcr 07 Calms set doWn ft! argument
in the Civil and Crown Sn'en-eThe Papers Were Ordered. '
I Mt. T. COCLCSENAY moied Mt several Acceents of Ex.-
ports and Imperns, to and from ludta-comprising those of the
East India Company in tbetears 1311 and 1010 ; :ad also the
Iliaports and imports.for two years, (non 1813.-Ordered.
A person from the Caledonian Canal .preeemed, at the Bar,
the Seventeenth Report of the Commissioners appointed fur
Carrying qn that wort. . .
It was ordered, oo %lotion. that an Account of rue Alien Esta-
blishment at *Dover, ond other ports, for the last year, be laid be:.
fore tke Ilo: se ; toge her with the Names of Aliens who Ind
tome into the t unary during that time.
..
Mr. TlERNEY.presented a Petition from the Rev. Isaacs
Ashe, Rector of aParisk in the County of Londonderry, repre-
' seining the o.•rviens he had rendered his King and Country,
during very difficult periods (which services were acknowledged
by the Government), and praying for remuneration. '
Ile Petition was received, and, on the motion of Mr. Tha-
mes', sodden robe printed.
Mr. MAXWELL presented a Petition from a g_teat
number of distressed inhabitants in the town of Pais-
ley. He said, that those unhappy persons had, friam
the decay of trade, poor-rates, and other causes, suf-
fered a total loss of capital, and were -reduced to the
'greatest hardships; they we:e not able to re-produce
RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS. anythidg by their labour; and they had no other'rea
Lard REDESDALF. brought in a Pnl for the more conve- source than that of calling on Parliament to devise
some means for their relief ; or to as,ist them in some
nient recovery of small Dcbts in Engtand and Wales. His
of emigration, whicn appeared to be the only
Lordship observed, that some years ago a number of Petitions plan •. • ~ - I
had been presented to the House upon the subject, the object of
resource left for them. The-distress did not appear
which was to obtain a general Bill, applicable to the whole
country. It then occurred to hint to draw up a Bill for that to affect any.particular trade moie than another-, but
purpose. It was printed, but he did not proceed any further to'arise from the peculiar situation of the Country.
At one time, when Great Britain the mil • lace
with it. lie was then convinceil that the most advisable way
of endeavouring to attain the object required, would be to erect
of . 2
security for those possessed of propert—y, Ya.gre4tp t
Courtn, dillerent front the County Courts, for the recovery of
those debts, couducted by Judges nominated as in the County quantity of money began to tlow into it, and we bad
Courts, and by Juries constituted on a more limited scale than a kind of monopoly in trade and manufactures. The
labourers then were in the habit of • •
the ordinary ones. It was then thought, that perhaps the re- labourersreceiving large
form of the County Courts, and the adaptation of their power: • n
these. were now wholly unprovided for;
o
to the recovery of =AI debts, might answer the same purpose ; WAVi, an
as, for instance, the Court of Middlesex had hnu reformed is the nothing being re produced,. and a great part of the
mode of recovering debts to the amount of forty shillings. Ac- capital of this place having vanished. The wages of
cordiro to the Act of Regulation, the Clerk of that Culla must those who could obtain employment were so small,'
be a Barrister of three years standing, and his appointment ap- were scarcely able to Maintain themselves.
proved of by one of the C hief Justices of Westminster Hall. that they
But then, in the County Courts, the suitors were the Judges. Then now hoped that the House would' attend, to
the Clerk was but an assessor ; whereas be wished to keep the their situation, and consider whether some favourable
duties of Judge and Jury separate. And it occurred to Mot 'change in their condition might not be brought ahOk.
that an attempt to regulate these Courts anew, according to that . .
Indeed, it waste be hoped that Ministers would tuns
principle. would be subject to great delay, and be involved in
difficulties that would have some effect in preluding a part of their anection to some plan, by which the elistrie. sses,'
the expected advantages. Ile thought it best, therefore, on dais of the country at large might be alleviated. Under
occasion, to new model his Bill upon a principle of geeeeal ap- the present state of things, it was not to be expeetell
plication. The Noble. Lord then described the chief features of
. that men would invest their capitals in manufactures,
the Bill. It was proposed that one or more Courts should be
I established in each County. The Judge to be appointed by the because elley would not consider their.property,.aa4
Sheriff, who might be, at the same time, the Clerk of the during the continuance of a system that unit.
lif
County Court. Instead of the suitors being Judges, the latter the People dissatisfied with the Goyernmettt.ll;
•
were to be independent of them. The qualifications for Jury-
Maxwell) therefore, implored his Majestea Miisisrsi
men were to be adjusted according to a certain scale of property,
II Those eligible were freeholders of £5, yearly copyholders of to make every exertion in their.power i .4.81 if.
£lO, and leaseholders of £l5. Of the persons so qualified, any the Petitionei s. It was dreadful to
to be competent to discharge the funetions of a June. The time in every square milts without any:adzquatageitug.,s4
and place of holding the Court to. be regulated by the Justices
at the Quarter Sessions, as the necessities of different Counties • - •
subsistence. He declared he was net, ars' Imepeptalta
might cause the quantity of suits te •vary, some having more this Petition, actuated by, :any political muttiosplipa
wealth and population than others. The difference in the ex- merely by feelings of humanity,. aad by a.dcsre mot
tent of Counties also, would make it expedient that the number
keep the People in a temper of lojally*thafogo,
of Courts should vary, which local circumstances the Justices
ve
rnment.-The Petitiou Was then Oar,},.
molmt
of the Quarter Sessions could provide for, better than- an Act oft . .. .
Parliament. It would be proper, that the jurisdiction should read, arid ordered to be printed: - • ~!..,' r-0..., i•rvir P:•::a
extend to sums not exceeding £lO, and that the proceedings ADMINISTRATION OF TAR LAW.Ml,l444lll9sclud;
'Mould be as simple, and the fees as small as possible. Ile had Mr. F. CAMPBULL MSC. [O. All'lng: fiFSll9l44,,thi,
examined the provisions of the several Acts, particularly the . .„ ..
Act for the Regulation of the County Court of Middlesex, and motion respecting this subject, aitf wine.b....4olpate
had adopted parts of them. I. offering this Bill to the House, given notice on a former day.. 11e nW4ne4.1,4c,494140,
he only meant at present to introduce the subject to their Lord- that he.did not bring this pleasure forwarcirwP WIZ
ships' considerations, before any measure of the kind received desire of change ; but asli Mater Wiiial he COffpeilta
their sanction, chiefly with the hope that it might call the atten-
to be hi
tion of others to the object it had in view, and thereby beeonte highly necessary for the due adiniskration of
the cause of the enactment of some final measure for the reco- disc
the institutions which he roved.
justice. When
very of small debts, with little delay and expense, and upon a of were first-introduced, the two countries of Englied,
mode of dispensing justice as similar as possible to that pursued
In WestminsterDail. He meant as far as regarded the distinct and Wales might be considered as being whoilfais.i
nct
and independent function of Judge and fury. The former ex- language and manners; bat
ti from each other in
pounding the law, the latter pronouncing the verdict. He would :ince then they had in a manner become one•einitri'•
now move, that the Bill be read and printed, that it might lie try, and those laws which made so wide a cligtittent
open to alterations preparatory to a final ennotment. His Lord-
tion between them, ought no longer to exist: 'Kere
ship then restated thenmportant points of the Bill, and coin-
, mewed upon the advantages which were likely to result from the Hon. Gentleman proceeded to enumerate the'
.
them, particularly in regard to the arrange:heat, respecting on soveral defects that at present existed in- the aelinis-%
Iwhom the attendance could not fall heavy, on account of the nistration of the laws in Wales, Whielitelpolled tiitin •
restriction of the number competent to form a Jury, and the ors to great delays read hardships. An Sitesh cantel•
admission of copyholders and leaseholders, as specified; as the
Courts were to be held likewise in the parts of the country that tried in a Welch Court, subjected the parties' roan'
most required them, at the discretion of the Justices of the extraordinary degree of expense; much eentertltilr‘
Quarter Sessions, the Jurymen could not be subjected to the if the cause were tried in an Einglioli county. Theii•
inconvenience of being summoned from very distant places. was an unnecessary aggravation of expenses in 'thi-
ne Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be c n ,
printed.-Adjourned. practice of plea ling and another in the levying o.
fines and suffering recoveries. Besides the jorrsdit'.
HOUSE OF COMMONS. - tion of the Judges in Wales was supreme, and un
The following nlerribern were chasenAy.lianot, to try the .
merits of the Bridport Dection Petition : • • no controul on the part of any other anti it ry,
The Marquis of Tichfield, Chairman. Then there was a difference between the practiWßP
S. D. Dugdale C. W. Sibthorp
Calvert. J. Scott North Wales and in South Wales. thebfiat Rae
N. Cilve
place a certionni was never granted ; while eo.
In P. Bastard Lord J. P. Townakend n . -
latter part of the Principality, it was --a r::
S. J. Lloyd ' J. M. Lloyd granted. Then there was no remedy in case tutor
J. A. Hodson . J. Druntmond
'R. J. Wildman ID. Gilbert direction by the Judge ; and the Judges wiliise
Lord T. Cecil Lord Milton. competent to decide in cases of Equity-there trent '
Another Committee was chosen to try the Boroughbridge no Equity Courts ; and the 'consequence *.wir4 =drat...
Election Petition. The names were as follow : • 1.-" -.Li" • --
plaintiffs, in cases of ejectment, ml 31.re.m.u. to=t
K Finlay, Esq. Chairman.
Sir Joseph Yorke J. D. Asiley 'execution with a rapidity highly d,angerotit. lol:-.`iftit:-
w. S. Kinnersley Lord H. Howard • rights of individuals. Neither Solicitrars,•tounsai
S. Scott G. A. Legh-Keck
W. buncombe F. Cawthorne nor Judges there knew anything citSqrtft-y.casiii--
Sir W. H. Pringle R. W. Talbot -
and, whenever an Equity case came on for :decielos*-
Hon. P. R. Pellew J. Raine . the suitors must travel over the whole tireitit Ann-
E. B. Portman W. W. Wynn. with the Judges, before ally decision'conld be. 'lrets..•
On the motion of Mr. Theory, an order was made, that the Another evil was, that persons in England' eon d-itit
" ' f.- .
Marshal of the King's Bench l'rison be directed to bring I leery be brought into Wales as witnesses, as- the Corks'
Swann, F.sq. now confined in that prison, to the liar of that . , • f
Joao no rower to enforce their' `atterruance; and,. wilt.
House, on Tuesday, the 13th instant, if the said Henry Swann
tresses to avoid vin eVidedee had noiliirt.` should chose to appear there. wishing
yr. HUME presented a Petition from certain Linen Manu- to do but to pass over. fitilll Wale.eto ing an . t)
I. . d ft
complete the evils'of this,syKini,: there was. no ap..
factures in Scotland, praying that no impediments might be
thrown in the 'way of their trade.-The Petition was ordered
peal torn the Courts tia,.any . other Court but the .
to lie on the table.
Mr. HUME also gave notice of his intention to move for an House of Lords. He should
.pass over the. great
Account of the Expenses of collecting the Revenue. defect of the Jnd-'es prstetishrg in the Engliih Cnurft
Mr. NI ABR YATT moved for an Account of the real value as Barristers; ant liescoold 'not: atoid notion` dm
of all Goods Exported from Great Britain during the last Its i Treat
inennvei *64444
..- ieix be.iii..metoiersoic
.in lirtne of
the.,
Tears, to Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Russia, and other places . ..
- •
in the North of Europendistiuguishing the quantity exported in House of Commons, and their ways,
each year. Also an Account of the Official value of all Goods. their appointment, goieg the same Circpit as4tidgesi;
Experted to the same countries during the same period,
.Also tistitli salaries wete•sery small, and it was natyrni. ick,'
the number of Ships which desired out from the British pOrts,
eipe-ci.that iljey 51004 %ISt .io °Mike IliillOri•tilinet
during the last e 0 years to those countries, distimmadog then. • . . n , . n...
.• . -
number in each year, and British from ForeigrinSision. Alonao isl.naltY serourseraturafe by. a anoserrieney tst nampaproli
Account of the value and quantity a Goods Imported from thOse,llll- that klouse,'-arict airt eel...ma:lcy to 'ik.-rz-* Kir }sub:,
countries. He ntade similar Intotionsrespoctiag the. Exports to, ioanore..(ticiti, htenno-Tite.eaoe' tiaO very' 410 min• t
~
- 1 . . . . • or . ~,,,
..‘.sr.
land the Imports from, the British Colonic; in .figtth Apt r• 1;3, 'ibe r..... 1,4 • litatel. ~.i.siel. etssoo 4 nntnietaun eye:.
I.
during the last vi years.i-Tb•e Motions were an erred to. 1 .T..!,; • „,,,T70,. .
Mr. SCA RLETT mooed, that these-be aia Wore dos floftee4 ;Amon (iu !Limed's.' so dolt' if lft'e 1104 'cvmnitted•att ,
an Account of the number of Causes entered for 'Trial in the - ferror on a particular Circuit, it would be corrected
Court of King's Bench, during the last ten years; the number the next Circuit hy another. Lesilles, the English

Judges held their situations independent of the will
of the Crown. This establishment of tLe indepen:
dence of Judges, was one of the most memorable
actions that marked the equitable reign of his late
Majesty, who nobly put, even beyond his own reach,
that power which had been so often used as an engine
in the hands of despotic Governments—(Hear).—
England thus enjoyed the great blessing of having
an independent Bench. but was there anything like
this in Wale- ? No—the Judges there were compa-
ratively obscure, and their situations depended alto-
gether upon the pleasure of Ministers. The whole
system of justice there was imperfect and bad.—
Theie were eight Judges there, all of them ill paid ;
they were all dependents on Ministers ; area it was
impossible for the country not to look on their pro-
ceedings with disgust—(Hear, hear)..—W ould it be
said that eieht Judges were necessary for such a
country as Wales, when there were no more than
twelve for the whole of England? It thei e were
only four Judges there, the justice of the Principality
would be better administered. It was quite impos-
sible that many Judges could be necessary; and,
therefore, it was the duty of the blouse to examine
into the whole of those abuses, with a view of cor-
recting them. If his motion for a Committee of
Inquiry were now refused, he would then move a
Resolution, to exclude the Welch Judges from seats
in that House—( Hear, henr).—He saw no reason to
expect any permanent relief in the administration of
justice in Wales, unless the Court of Great Session
were abolished. It was, however, impossible to ex-
pect that the 'English Judges could attend the busi-
ness of that country, unless they -were increased in
number. He could not see any objection to such a
measure as this ; or any reason why the number of
our Judges should always. be confined to twelve.—
Here the Hon. Member quoted several periods of our
hi sue y, in which the Kings of England had more than
twelve Judges. He was sure the House would hear
with pleasure, that the main object of his motion was
to have the Judicature of Wales totally abolished,
and to assimilate the mode of administering justice
in Wales to that of England. He then moved, " That
a Select Committee be appointed to consider of the
state of Courts of Judicature in Wales, to determine,
upon the propriety of abolishing the same, and to
consult-upon the means of including Wales within
the Circuits of English Judges'—(]leas, hear).
Mr. WA RREN (Chief Justice of Chester), began
by taking notice of some observations made by the
Hon. Member who had just sat down, which he con-
sidered as reflecting so severely upon the personal
character of the Learned Gentlemen who now filled
the offices of Judges in Wales, as to require some
attempt at vindication.
Mr. F. CA NIPtiELL interposed, observing that he
had no intention of alluding to the personal charac-
ter of any of those Gentlemen. He addressed his
animadversions wholly to the system.
Mr. WARREN begged to remind the Honourable
Gentleman of his statement. in which-he imputed to
the Judges of the Welch Circuit, not only to the
Gentlemen who at present filled those offices—not
only to those who had filled them in times past, but
to all who should become Jud'pes in future, igno-
rance and obscurity. Did the Honourable Gentle-
man ever hear of Sir William Grant ?—lt was to be
presumed not. Did he hear of Sir James Mansfield—
of Lord Kenyon—of Sir Vicary Gibbs—or of the
present Chief Justice of the Common Pleas ?—lt was
to be presumed not. The Honourable Gentleman,
if he had ever heard of these great characters, would
have forborne to charge the Welch Judges, of " past
times at least," with ignorance. Now he (Mr. War-
ren) had bad the confidence and friendship of several
Gentlemen opposite ; he should recal the word
friendship, for he was afraid that it was often sacri-
ficed when party interfered. At all events, he hoped
not, looking to both sides of the House, he believed
he had been employed by a moiety on either side, at
one time or another. He begged to know from the
Honourable Member who spoke last, it he (Mr.
Warren) was included in the number of those Judges
who were described as ignorant and obscure? He
hoped not. He had not been in the House some
time back. when a Noble Lord opposite (Lord John
Russell) did allude to bins in a manner that would
have called upon him for some attempt at vindica-
tion. He had been unfortunately absent from the
House at the time, and only knew that he was al-
luded to by seeing the speech of the Noble Lord in
the public prints. However, he assured the Noble
Lord opposite, and the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Campbell) that he 'had too much respect for their
characters and talents to feel the least degree of anger
at their allusions. He gave them the credit of ex-
pressing what their conviction was, and he trusted'
that they would give him also the credit of speaking,
with sincerity, his opinions. He hoped that when
the Noble Lord again thought proper to reflect upon
him (Mr. Warren) in any capacity, he would do so
in a manner that would afford him (Mr. Warren) a
fair opportunity of replying to his charges. He
would now come to the question before the House.
He had no hesitation, ignorant and obscure as he
was, in declaring his approbation of the motion; to
the extent of an inquiry, not with the view enter-
tained by the Honourable Mover to the abolition of
she system of Judicature in Wales, but for tire pur-
pose of remedying its acknowledged defects. Per-
haps it was not known to many in that House, that
in the year 1817, a Committee was formed for the
purpose of inquiring into the state of Courts of Judi-
cature in Wales. fire late Mr. Ponsonby was the'
mover of this Committee. They spent a considerable
time in the investigation—they laboured diligently
and anxiously, cramming a variety of witnesses, who
from their station and experience, were enabled to give
them useful information. In the Report which they
presented to the House, they pointed out nearly the
same defects in the system of Judicature, which the
HonourableGentleman had enumerated to the House.
The measure of remedy which they proposed to carry
into effect, however, was very different from that
which appeared to be entertained by the Honourable
Gentleman. They did not hold the opinion, that
Courts shculd be abolished ; but they came to the
resolution, that a Rill should be brought in, founded
upon the Report, for the purpose of curing the im-
perfections therein pointed out.- Here then were the
objects ready provided which the Honourable Gen-
tleman wished to procure by his motion. So far
from wishing to abolish the Courts, the Committee
expressly stated that the system had various recom-

mendations, arid that notwithstanding its defects, it
was deserving of being continued, on account of the
cheapness and expedition with which justice was ad.;
ministered in conformity with it. The Hill was
brought in, and after having gone through few
stages, was dropped in consequence of the dit:olu-
tion of Parliament He (Mr. IVarren) would recom-
mend to the Honourable Gentleman to accept the
suggestions contained in the Itero9, of the former
Committee, anii to ruvive the 13111 -Which had been
introduced under their sanction. He begged-to state,
that a Petition had been presented to :he House re-
cently, numerously and respectably signed, and
corning from the very place with which the Honour-
able Mover himself was more immediately connected,
in which the Petitioners expressed their anxiety for an
alteration of the system of Judicature, but at the
same time discountenancing any proposal for the
abolition of the system altogether. Recurring to the
charges which had been made against the Welch
Judges, he expressed his hope again that the Hpn.
Gentleman did not intend to include him (Mr. War-
ren) in the obnoxious censures which had faller from
him. With respect to the office w }rich he (Mr. War-
ren) held, he assured the House, that if emolument
had been his object, the exchange which he had
,Lade proved but a bad speculation, because with a
moiety of the emolument: which le derived ft om his
professicnal atteudance on Committees up stairs for
a short time, he could absolutely purchase the fee-
simple of the office. It the Honourable Member,
however, succeeded in his object of obtaining a Com-
mittee, he (Mr. Warren) assured the House that he
would be most ready to furnish all the information
in his power.

Sir :JAMES MACKINTOSH and Mr. CREEVEY rose
together ; but theformer Honour able Member yielded
precedence to
Mr. CREEVEY, who then addressed the House.
He confessed he was never able to comprehend upon
what grounds English Judges were disqualified, by
their station, from taking seats in the House of Com-
mons, while a similar exchisicn was not extended to
Welch Judges—(Hear, hear). If he wanted a proof,
however, of the Constitutional impropriety of the
privilege granted to the latter class, that proof was
,to be found in the person of the Honourable and
Leal tied Judge who had just sat down. It was not
tote denied now, that the office of a Judgeship in
%Vales, with a seat in the House of Commons, and
certain opinions, were always to be found united.—
He (Mr. Creevey) remembered the time of his politi-
cal acquaintance with the Learned Judge—he by no
means wished to imply that the Honourable Gentle-
man and himself entertained the same political opi-
nions, because the Honourable and Learned Judge
always ent farther than he (Mr. Creevey)—(Laugh-
ter, and Hear!). In fact, there was a time when
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman could find
no more sui:able object for his panegyric—no more.
congenial oracle of his political opinions, than the
Honourable Baronet, the Representative for West-
minster—(Much laughter, and Hear!). However,
he (Mr. Creevey) now saw the Honourable Gentle-
man (Mr. Warren) supporting a certain line of opi-
nions in that House, and he saw him a Welch Judge;
he, consequently, thought that there was no great
violation in reasoning, by concluding that there was
an intimate connection between the office and the
opinitins—(Hear, hear).
Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped the House would
permit him to say a few words, in reference to the
allusion which had been made to him personally by
the Honourable and Learned Judge. He observed,
some time since, in a Newspaper which usually sup-
ported the Ministers, that a long tirade against the
(Alice and character of the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman had been attributed to him (Lord John
Rus,ell), purporting to be a part of a speech made in
the House of Commons. In this statement he (Lord
John Russell) was represented to have accused the
Learned Gentleman of a willingness to support the
unconstitutional measures of the Minister. How such
a notion could have entered the head of the Reporter
was to him unaccountable. What he did say, was
this—that there was an individual in that House
holding an office, which, instead of being removed
from the sphere of political contention, as it ought
to be, was usually reckoned as the passage to other
honours in the gift of Ministers, and hence the office
was rendered subservient to the support of the mea-
sures of Ministers. In saying that this office was only
a step to that of Attorney-General, and of Solicitor-
General, he believed he was borne out by facts—
(Hear, hear).—When the Judges were dependent on
the Crown, it was declared that in consequence of
the state of dependence they were comparatively in-
efficient. He begged to know what advantage was
obtained from rendering the Judges independent, if
it was now to be contended that an individual might
perform very impartially the duties of a Judgeship,
the appointment to which was in the hands of
Minis-
ters ? The Learned Gentleman would see that, in
these observations, no particular person was alluded
to. The Honourable Judge had talked much of his
disinterestedness, and stated, that as to emolument,
his returns from professional employments up stairs
before Committees, far exceeded what he derived
from his judicial situation. The House, therefore,
were left to conclude, that the office had been ac-
cepted solely with a view of making an accession to
his character. The-Honourable and Learned Gen-
tleman embraced the promotion for the purpose of
passing away the remainder of his life in a more dig-
nified capacity than that in which he spent the pre-
vious part, while in political associations with his
Honourable Friend (Mr. Creevey)—(Laughter, and
Hear, hear).—But if the Honourable and ,Learned
Gentleman felt himself more honourably situated
now—if he thought that his head was higher at this
moment than in the former period of his life, he
(Lord John Russell) would freely wish. him joy of his
sit uation—( Hear, hear).
Mr. WYNN objected to the personal mode in
which the discussion was carried on. After stating
many defects in the Welch system of Judicature,
amongst which was the fact of there being no appeal
from the decisions of the Welch Courts, he supported
the motion.

Colonel' WOOD said, he was a member of the
Committee in 1817, and he remembered that Mr.
Ponsunby, who, as their Chairman, had, acted in a
manly, dispassionate manner, entered upon the in-
vestigation with a strong prejudice against the exist-1
ence of the Welch Courts. The result., however, of
the examinations was, that the Right Hon. Gentle-

man 'tad altered his opinion,-unds%as -taistlatstuod
to say that the system had many recommendations
to the sanction of the Legitlature. The Report of
the Committee ex pressed the same opinion, and any
one who took the trouble to teed the examinatisnis
before the Committee, would find that they would
have departed -flow. the *hole btarisg of the-evi-
"(fence if they had drawn any other conclusions than
those to be found in their Report. The only witness
who differed with the rest of the evidence, and who
expressed himself anxious for the abolition of the
system, was .Ir. Owen, who, upon being a-ked as
to the good effect of dividing the Principality into
two parts, with a view to the more convenient ad-
ministration of justice? stated that he doubted the
good effects. fhe Honourable Member then pro.
ceeded to notice the allusions that had been rresde to
the Equity judicature. The Cow t was ambulatory,
and it was necessary for the Banister to follow the
Circuit for a space of three weeks. If he did not
bring his case to a conclusion in that time, he was
precluded from bringing it foi ward again for six
months. This delay was complained of as a great
hardship. But in our Couit of Chancery a suitor
would consider himself as very fortunate indeed if
he could bring his case to a conclusion within six
years !—(Hear, Hear).—Ho (Colonel Wood) believed
that a County Meeting had been convened at the in- I
stance of the Honourable Gentleman who moved the
question, at which, if he rnistsok not, a resolution
was agreed to, that it would be advantageous to re-
medy the defects of the system of Judicature, and
thus implying an understanding, that the system was
not to be abolished. He believed that if the inhabi-
tants of every county in the Principality were con-
sulted, they would be found to entertain the same
feelings. But amongst the difficulties which presented
themselves to the introduction of English Judges
into Wales, he begged to state one which he consi-
dered of great importance, namely, the difference
of language. In a great part of Wales no English
was spoken at all. Even at this moment it was very
rare to procure a Welch witness, in certain places,
that could speak the English. When a Welch wit-
ness was brought into the box, you might ply him
for ever with questions in English, before you could
get any other answer out of him than di* sassenagh
(Laughter).—There was another important difficulty
just occurred to his mind. The Judges and Lawyers
at present, all went the Circuit on horseback. He be-
lieved that the establishment of English Judges of
Assize, could not get through half the country in
the necessary time !—(A laugh).—He remembered
that an English Judge (Judge Harwood) io travel-
ling Circuit in Wales on horseback, fell off his horse
and broke a leg—(Laughter).—lf Gentlemen would
abstain from indulging in party feeling in questions
of this nature, and if they would consent to leave
the poor Welchmen to themselves for a time, they
might be soon ripe for those projected improvements.
But at present the Welch were not in a sufficiently
advanced state to become the object of these projects
of assimilation with England. He knew that the
prevalence of the Welch language was a great draw-
back upon their tendency to improve. Perhaps this
was not a gracious acknowledgment, coming from
him, but it was not less true. He was certain that
any proposal. for the alteration of the system would
meet with great dissatisfaction from the country. He
had no objection to join in any attempt to remedy
the admitted defects of the system. He should sup-
port a revival of the Bill formerly introduced into
the House upon this subject; but he would oppose
the present Motion. •
Mr. WROrfESLEY (a Member of the Commit-
tee) stated, that it was the general impression that
the Welch system of Judicature required some re-
medy. He corroborated the statement of his Hon.
Friend (Colonel Wood) that Mr. Ponsonby was un-
favourable to the abolition of the system.
Mr. CHETWYND raid, that the Honourable and
Learned Judge opposite (Mr. Warren) had furnished
him with a stronger proof than he required "for con-
vincing him that no Judges should be permitted to
bold seats in that House. The great evil of the sys-
tem was in the mode of appointing the Welch Judges.
If Ministers gave up the little patronage that the
power of appointing to these offices afforded them,
he thought they would procure for themselves a
good deal of confidence in the country. The House
would remember, that up to an early peridd in the
reign of George the Second, the Scotch Barons were
permitted to hold seats in that House. An Act, how-
ever, passed in that reign, which disqualified them
in future. He confessed he did not see the justice
of excluding Scotch Barons from Parliament, if
Welch Judges were permitted to bold seats there—
(Hear, hear).—Nothing could be more derogatory to
the Constitution, than such a permission to Welch
Judges. The Honourable Member reprehended, as
another great evil, the liberty given to Welch Judges
to act as Advocates. In cases even .of .common ac-
tions, to be tried on the Welch Circuit, it. was possi-
ble, by a little dexterity, to obtain beforehand the
opinion of the Judge who was to try it. He concurred
in the Motion.

Mr. ALLEN denied the truth of the representa-
tion, that the inhabitants of Wales were unfavour-
able to the abolition of the present system of Judi-
cature, and to the substitution of a mode of admi-
nistering justice assimilated to that of England. The
Carmarthen Petition had originated in the spirit of
party. The only merit ascribed to the Welch Judi-
cature was superior cheapness and dispatch ; but it
was a very unfair way to estimate the excellence of
Jurisprudence by the cheapness with which it. was
to be obtained. He therefore claimed for his coun-
trymen a participation in the jurisprudence of Eng-
land. They could never have a fair administration
of justice with inferior Judges, Barristers, and At—
toruies. The best way would be to take the Southern
Counties of the Oxford Circuit, and connect them,
' with South Wales, and the Northern Counties of it
,with North Wales. In this way they would be able
to secure a more respectable Bar than at present.',
The cheapness and the number of Attornies were the
great causes of litigation in Wales. He therefore
supported the Motion. He believed that Ministers
were perfectly ready to give up the patronage of the
Welch Judges, if it should be found necessary for the
due administration of justice.
Lord CASTLEREAGH 'said, the Hon. Gentle-
man had done his Majesty's Ministers no more than
justice. He had entered the House with an opinion
that the Report of 1817 was perfectly satisfactory ;'I
but he had since learned that, owins to the death of ,

the Right Hon. Chairman of that Committee (Mr.
Ponsonby) that Report was not so deliberately consi-
dered as might haft been wished. It might be de.
sii able to revive that Committee ; btu the lion. Mena-
ibees motion went too far, as it alii.ost called on the
House to pronounce at once the extinction of the
Welsh Judicature; a measure directly hostile to the
Report of the former Committee, and the whole body
of the evidence on which it was founded. He felt a
desire to inquire into this suhject still farther; but
without prejudice to the existing Judicature of that
country. He u as, therefore, convinced that the Hon.
Moves would not wish to adhere to the express words
of his motion. The Committee, if revived, might go
into a more extensive inquiry than the last; and he
could wish that the Report of that Committee should
be referred to the new one. He alai moved an
Amendment--" That a Committee be appointed
simply to inquire into the present state of Judicature
in Wales." He protested against that mode of arz
gument, that men were less trustworthy because they:
had offices confeired on them, in which they wou.d
be enabled to distinguish themselves in their profes-
sional character. He defended Mr. Warren from the
imprudence and inaccuracy of the statements tna:le
against him, for having changed from one side to the
other of tilt House. For himself, he should al wa..-s
libid that man in the greatest respect who prudently
looked at passing events, and drew his inferences
from them accordingly—(Load laughter, and Hear,
hear!)—lie did not understand the meaning of those
cheers on the part of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite,
but this he knew, that when his Hon. and Learned
Friend held different opinions from those which he
now entertained, they did not lessen him in the esti-
mation of those OR the other side.

---
Mr. BARHAM, who was fcr some time inaudible
in the gallery, from the noise that prevailed, stated
the opinion of the late Mr. Ponsonby en the subject.
The opinion was, that the people of Wales ought to
" get into the great boat ;" which meant, that they
ought to be admitted within the pale of the British
Constitution. It had also been declared by the same
Gentleman, that the manner of airy ointing the Welch
Judges was notoriously corrupt. Whatever Honour-
able Gentlemen might say, it would be a difficult ar.d
invidious task to prove the contrary. Had not an
individual been appointed a Welch Judge from being
Clerk in the King's kitchen, after he had been out of
the practice of the law for twenty years ?—(Hear).
Had they never heard cf a Judge Lloyd or a Judge
Uppon, buth respectable persons in their way, but
wholly unfit for Judges? He had heard it aserted,
that an Attorney applied to a Welch Judge in his
Chambers for his opinion, for which, of course, he .
paid him his fees; and when afterwards the Judge
gave a contrary opinion on the Bench, the Attorney
exclaimed—" How could you take my three guineas
for giving one opinion, and the King's money for
giving another, on the same case ?—(Hear, hear!)--
The name of that Judge was Lloyd, and the name
of the Attorney was Matthews. The Honourable
Member concluded, by expressing his decided con-
viction that the present state of Welch Judicature
called urgently for the interference of the Legislature.
Mr. W. WYNN condemned the conduct of Judge
Hardinge, when on the Bench in Wales.
Mr. BATHURST deprecated any premature cen-
sure on the Welch Judges.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
if the Bench and the Bar of Wales were not now re-
spectable, they must have been very much ganged
within the last twenty years. They certainly were so
at the time he practised on the Wdch Circuit—(A
laugh).- The Right 'Honourable Gentleman then
enumerated the names of several distinguished law.
yers who had gone the Welch Circuits in his time;
among whom were, Lord Redesdale, Sir W. Grant,
and Lord Glenbervie, while Sir William Jones had
just then left Wales.
Mr. W. PARNELL vindicated the character cf
the Learned Judge for Chester. It was true, that
that Learned Judge sought power and influence, but
nothing was more natural ! lau0). He was, bow•
ever, certain that the Gentleman in question sought
such power and influence only that he might be the
more enabled to do good.
Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) expressed his hope,
I that the example of the Learned Judge for Chester
would be followed by some of the pure Patriots on
the other side, as by getting into power, as he had
done, they would have more opportunity of serving
the public interest. This was the opinion of the late
Mr. Ponsonby, respecting whom an Hon. Member
told a story to-night, about getting all the ‘Velch-
men into a large boat !—(.l lasigh).—Yes, Mr. Pon-
sonby had said, that ayure Patriot, such for instance
as the Learned Judger!' question (A laugh) never had
it in his power to do more good than when he was
in power! As to the story related about a Welch
Judge and an Attorney, the same had been said cf
all Judges, from the time a Judge had been first ap-
pointe4, They had often been obliged to adjudicate
differently, in cases where, as Lawyers, they happened
to give obiter opinions another way. This was the
most possible case in the world, and he would put it
to the Solicitor-General opposite—(Here the Hen.
Monier looked earliest § at Mr. Denman).—Yes, he
would put it to the Solicitor-General—he meant the
Solicitor-General who was before him—he would
ask that lion. Gentleman, if he Told happen one
day to get a seat on the Bench, an peradventure he
might, as nothing was hard or impossible to GOD,
he would ask him, if he was made a Welch Judge,
whether it would be pleasant to his feelings, that any
opir,ion contrary to his better judgment, _which I.e
might happen to deliver in that House, should rise
up in judgment against him?
Mr. DENMAN assured the Hon. Gentleman, that
he should never deliver any opinion either in that
House or elsewhere, which would give him the leapt
cause of apprehension as to the consequences:
Mr. SCARLETT deprecated the assertion of the
Hon. Memberfor Galway, that all Judges were sub-
ject to the same imputation as the Judge in question.
Mr. MARTIN said, he intended only to assert,
that they might be subject to them occasionally.
Mr. SCARLET!' was satisfied with the explana.
tion, and should say no more.
Mr. CAMPBELL explained, and having witJ -
drawn his motion, the question on the Amencnei..•
was put and carried unanimously.

PAYMENT OP WAgfilt
Mr. LITTLETON rose, pursuant to notice/ t.
move for leave to bring in a Bill to eaend the i 4 .-
relAtite to the pertuoilt of Labours:a' Wnes