Star.
London, England, 1817-05-21 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT felt himself placed in
rather a singular situation in bringing before the
House the motion, which he felt it his duty to bring
I forward, and of which he had given notice, respect-
ing Parliamentary Reform. At any former period
to supporling such a question, he should have con-
sidered that he would be doing sufficient it he h id
presented to the House such proofs as would
make it clearly out to them that elections of Mem-
bers of Parliament were not such as, according to the
spirit and letter of the laws of the country, they
ought to be. At any former period, it he had proved
that elections,, not in one or two instances only, were
carried err in a manner which was most improper,
and which in its nature combined every thing most
hostile to the Consitution—if he had made such a
position good, he should have considered that their
was sufficient reason fur a Reform; if he had made
' out that gross corruption prevailed, he should have,
thought that h. had done alt that-it was his duty to
do, and had :hewn enough to cause the people's vie-
, veneer to be taken into consideration. But he now
felt himself peculiarly situated ; for about that which
would have been looked upon in former times with
horror by all parties—about that practice, of which
the knowledge of its existence would have formerly
been sufficient to have caused all to agree that there
was a necessity for the application of tome remedy,
anew doctrine had arisen; and it appeared, that
what had been considered formerly as indefensible
corruption, was now the proper means of carrying on
the Government of the country. The House and the
country were unblushingly told, that the corruption
which existed was necessary for the conducting of the
Government; and that what had been formerly ima-
gined the seeds of disease, and the marks of the de-
cay of the Constitution, the people were now told
were the seeds of that tree whence the Constitution
had originated, and that they were essential to the
practical Government under which they ought to
live. It might be considered singular that he should
come to that House with the question—indeed, mere
appeared something contradictory in a person's
coming to receive, or to demand redress from those,
of whose offences he complained. He could not,
however, help believing, that when the House came
to consider the general voice of the people without
their walls, and the vast number of petitions which
' had heed laid before them,, that they' would not en.
tirely torn a deaf ear to'their complaints. When they
considered that more petitions had been presented,
complaining of the great grievance of a detective re-,
presentatioo ; that grievance from which all others
Mad sprung, irons which they wished to be relieved ;
when they recollected that more of those petitions
had been presented lately than there ever had been
presented on any subject at any former period, he
could not suppose that they mould be entirely ne-
glected. When on formes occasions motions had been
made similar to that which lie intended to lay before
the House, it had been said the people could nut
desire a Reform in rarliatnent, for where were the
petitions which ought to have come from Manchester
and from 13irmingham f There had this year been
petitions presented, however, from all the places, the
silence of which had before been adduced against
Reform; and the House had before them petitions
signed by perhaps a million of people. However,
the House might consider the complaints made as
well or ill grounded ; however they were to be in the
end reMedied or rejected, he hoped they would at
least think it rather indecent not to consent to inati•
Lute some inquiry upon the subject. He thought that
the subject of such complaints should not be consi-
dered as wild and visionary, as such as rational peo-
ple never thought of, and that never really had ex-
istence. What the people wanted, however, were
looked epoo as the objects of new•tangled ductriucs.

The principal of those visionary theories was that of
annual Parliaments, which was looked upon &sot
wild motion never before heard of. He wondered
how Gentlemen could have been so far misled as tear,
to have considered that as the old and establisheil
course. It was plain.that in the earliest periods. .
it was delivered down by authors, and as it had beta
known even by tradition, that bad been the constitu-
tional practice, and tl.e use of our ancestors for cqn-
turies in this country. But it might be said, that that,
was not of great importance to the question, which,
in reality, was not what the Constitution had been,
but what it ought to be. It that doctrine, however,
was found to have its origin in remote antiquity, he
considered that a complete answer to those who took
upon themselves to say that it was new and unheard
of. MIA doctrine was found to be the practice at
and before the time of William the Conqueror, by
' tradit:oa as well as by what had been written by au-
thors of the earliest times. Andrew Hail, in 11:s
Mirror of Justice:. had sai I, that Parlietneets were
a year, and that it Was the King's defy
to call thenr often. The Writs run Is weivie. and is
deed it generally happened in a country like this,
that three were often dill-lc-airs of various kinds to
encounter and to remedy. Thus the Ho he nad
evi-
dence that Parliaments had heen asseml:leltwice a
year. It the House found Edward the Confessor to
have followed such laws as would be seen to have
been followed by a reference to his time, and that
William the Conqueror had becon:e Kiog of Eng-
land, and had sworn to obey the laws, they would
find great evidence for annual Parliaments. If,
however, it was said, diet William the Conqueror
was a perjured man, and infringed upon the laws of
the country, that would by no means show that the
people should give up their claims to their rights,
and that they should surrender those liberties to which
they had always through all history been seen to be
so much attached. From Henry 111. even to Edw.
IV. the House would find evidence in favour of an-
nual Parliaments. They were, considered the pro-
per Parliaments of the country. There were some.
times such gross abuses of the Constitution that some
Kings had been dethroned, and the Governn.ent had
not always been according to law, and certainly thine
times were not to be taken into precedent. The
House knew, however, that laws had been decisive
that Pariiaments should be annual. In the reign of
Edward 111. an Act had been passed, which enacted
that Parliaments should be annual, but then it should
be considered what had been the practice in the early
part of our history, and the House would find, that
through the whole of h s long and glori.aus reign,
than which a more brilliant period could not be
found in English history, Edward die Taira was
in the habit of annually conveni ig h s Farl‘aments—s
(Hear, hear.) The law was not that the 1 artiament
wrould last for a year, so much as that the King
should not go a year without a Parliament, and that
as soon 14 it bad done its business it should he die-
s .Ived. Some Parliaments were even elected fcr
shorter time than one year; there had, indeed, been
some times two in a year, sometimes three, .:rd there
we, an instance of there loevoig been five new elec-
tions in one year. When, Vied, he saw that that had
'been the practice of old tim,s, and when the people
claimed to have what had been the practice restored
to them, he thought that he had a right to contend,
that the Kiug ought not to prorogue the P 'filament
to what extent of time he pleased, but that it was in).
perious upon him that the period of prorogation
should be less than one year. There were persons
who had written with very great research upon the
subject, and from them it would be found, that from
the earliest times down to the Mei year of Henry VI.
the Parliaments had been freely elected, and had
been elected twice, or even thrice, in one year ; and
there was no evidence whatever of their having been
continued longer than that period. Proceeding with
the history of the country, the House would then
come to the period of the civil wars, which was cer-
tainly a period from which it was plain to every
wise man no precedent could be drawn, for those
were times when Laws and Constitution were but
little regarded, and when fence was the ruling power
in every transaction. It was true, that from such a
period little could be deduced; but even then he was
astonished to see for how short a period Parliaments
had been constantly held. Though the ehuse of
long prorogations might have been establidied, their
were not touch empli,yed till the time of Henry the
Eighth. When that hlonatch wished to get divorced
from his Queen, and when he had quarrelled with
the Clergy and the Pope, with the iiitenti,al nt cot.
bling him more readily to carry through the diveree,
and that great measure called the ftelarmatioo, he
kept a Parliament undissolved for five yea: s, aid
Was the first instance that a Peoliament was konele
to last so lung A time. The ream for a Parl.ameht
being kept together for so hiiig a period was obvious;
it WAS a determination to carry through such mea.
sures as were not in conformity with the will and
pleasure of the nation at large. The King interfered
to give an object which was not agieeable to the will
of the nation, and kept together that let of men
whom lie believed willing to give him greatest sup-
port. Bishop Burnet had said. that the King had
taken great pains, and bad used great means, to flat-
ter that Parliament, and that he had got together
such a set of men as would be most willing to prose.
cute his purposes ; that he had kept them assembled
till they 11.1 d passed time two great measures—case di.
Treace, and, what was then called, the plunder of the
property of the Church. Religion, it appe: red, was
then used as a cloak to political schemer, as it was
„ow employed fur other objects—(l/,;?r, luac, /..mar.)
When the House arrived at Edward VI. they w rata
find that ihotector Somerset had kept, for purposes
of his own, a Parliament assembled fcr five years.
Queen Mary then came to the throne, ohoee rigs
had been so much abused ; but whoever looked into
it would see, perhaps with notch surprise, that the
Catholics, when they came into power, smastieg
under all the plunder which had been made of them,

r

did, under that Queen, restore the Constitution to
its former situation. and repeal much of what had
been enacted against It by Henry VIII. What
emrld Englishmen think, when they knew, that, con-
sidering all circumstances, they were not so secure
with regard to their privileges at the present time as
they were in the time of the bloody Queen Mary ?
(Ilear,hter,heee.) National religion was restored tol
its former situation; for theta it would appear that
the Catholics were the great body of the people, and
Queen Mary adhered to short and constitutional Par-1
liatnelitsh-not one of which would be found to have
lasted.Jor (Inc year. Then they would come to the
reign.of Queen Elizabeth, and they would find there
only two on Parliaments, but without a standing
army, without any thing but the affections of her'
subjeus ; for she was too wise to oppress them, and
too .honourable to deceive them. James the First
Lad kept the Parliaments assembled for a very consi.
derable time, but the people had not then known a
long Farlitinhitt to be a grievancehathey had only
felt hardships tram r.c,t having had Parliaments ar
all e and having procured Representatives, they
thought themselves safe under their hands. Na prac-
tical ill indeed had at that time accrued from long
Pariliaments. They then came to the reigned Charles.
thelfirsi. He was not content to follow the exam-
ple of. Queen Dieabetb, or to cmhorrn try the laws
which those who preceded her had enacted, but he
tried to do without a Parliament altogether. Hav-
ing made Weeniinster Hall subservient to his views
upon the cowry, he contrived to make the laws his
instruments in subverting the liberty of the people;
but.he had nn standing army to support
deed, it he had had a standing army. he very much
doubted, that it %soul., have that night been a ques-
tian, whether that Heuse should be reformed ?
After he had hied to do without a Parliament, he
found it necessary for his interests to convene one;
but even then he had not: the means of corrupting'
Members to his purposes, which were since employed.
Then came the struggle for independence, which the
conduct of the King occasioned, and the House
knew how that struggle had ended. The Parliament,
after having been some time assembled, acted upon
the principle of keeping power whilst they had it, and
a ter having fought the battles of the people, became
Chantelves as great a grievance as that they had pre-
v,:theh failing on their constituents. They passed an
Act for their own permanence. It appeared that a
great man, who then began to grow eminent, wished
h. confer on the count , y a lasting benefit. It was
h.:mewl:at singular, but it. was true, that Oliver Croat.
v.-ell was a great reformer—(ficar, heor,)--tor that
person, when he bad acquired a considerable it:fit:-
vice over the Parliament, offered to them a pi.:n of
Reform, the best which was ever submitted to their
consideration. That plan was so good that Lord
Clarendon had said, it was a pity that it had not come
from abetter quarter, from a more warrantable pet
sun, and that it was certainly calculated foe the wel-
fare of the country. It was, however, decided that
Oliver Cromwell should either give up his situation,
which, considering his condition, was equal to a self-
condemnation to the staff ld, or the plan would not
be adopted. The peop:e then looked towards the
reetoretion of Charles 11. as to a new era, and it'
might then have been hoped that the Constitution
would be placed upon a firm• basis. But it hap-
pened that Charles was a King who bad no feeling.:
He followed up what Charles I. bad begun ;he at-
tempted and obtained the corruption of the House.
Lord Clarendon himself had expressed a wish that
the " generous folly," as he termed it, of the people
might have been less manifested, and was sorry that
stipulations had not been made, which in the end
might have been of great use both to the Crown and,
to the people—which might have preserved the fa-
mily-upon the Throne, and have saved the people
from many of the miseries which they
caused them
to endure before they were expelled from it. That
Monarch bad then wished to re-establish Popehy in
the country, though at that time the Roman Catho-
lics were certainly the minority of the people ; and
through his whole conduct he was in opposition to
the nation, and be kept a Parliament undissolved for
a period of sixteen years. That Parliament, though
it was so corrupt, that it obtained the name of the
Pensioned Parliament. would not suffer the King to
make himself independent of the people ; they would
not allow him to have a standing army, and when at
length he found that they would not fulfil what he
required of them, he dissolved them. The disputes
between Charles 11. and the Parliament, were, in
fact, only a repetition of the disputes which bad
taken place between the Parliament and Charles
I. James 11. then attempted not only to corrupt
tan Parliament in itself, but to procure undue elec-
tion. He pursued a course worse than that of the
former Monarch; things, consequently, came to a
crisis, and he was obliged to abdicate the Throne.
They then came nearer to the present time. and par-
ticularly to the declaration of the Prince of Orange,
dated from the Hague. After stating various other
grievances, that Prince had mentioned the corruption !
of the House of -Commons. That corruption het,
stated to exist in the King's using undue means to'
procure the election of Members. He stated that a
lair, full, and free Parliament, and that the grievances
• which had been represented to him, could only be
redressed by a free election of Parliament. Islan)h
petitions had been presented to King James, request-
iug that be would call a free Parliament, and, as it
was expressed, tree in all circumstances. He made
a promise that such a Parliament should be elected :
but then be said, " How can the Parliament be free
in ail circumstances when the Prince of Orange in.
Ounces 100 voters ?" One of the principal charges I
against Richard 11. was, that he had packed the
Parliament, and Rapin observed, that the Parlia-
ment was continued for the period of five months,
which was considered very unusual. and as an exces-
sive exercise of the King's prerogative of prorogation.
Richard 11. then having been dethroned, and James
11. having abdicated, because they attempted to in-
fluence elections, which ought to be free, as was de-
clared in the very word, what did the House think
of individuals claiming a power which was never
permitted to the Crown ? He next should draw the
attention of the House to a part of the subject which
required their serious attention, and in connection
with arhich he should mention a petition which had
been presented in 1793 from a Society in favour of
Reform in Parliament. What he had now to notice
will one of the greatest teat which the comity had

to lament. The petition stated. that eighty-four in-
dividuals did, by their own influence, seed into that
House one hundred and fifty-seven Members, and the
fact was ready to be proved. That number, he ap-
prehended, was full two-thirds of the whole House ;
but that was not all, for there were 150 more sent by
70 powerful individuals, making the total number
a decided majority in that House—(Near, hear.)—
Thus a set of individuals claimed the executive power,
by having the right to dispose of the property, and
even of the lives of his Majesty's subjects. He would
rather leave the power entrusted to the Crown en-
tirely, than that it should exist in an underhand man-
ner, which made it much more distressing. Even
Justice Blackstone, who in his own time was a Court
Lawyer, who was considered a time-serving man,
and who, so much was the state of things changed,
was now considered rather Jacobinical, had said that
the Constitution was the King, Lords, and Com-
mons, and that its excellence consisted in each branch
being independent of the others. He had also said,
that when any great encroachments were made upon
that House, there would be an end of the Constitu-
tion. If there should be any alteration in the state'
of the House, it was the forming it into a more
complete representation. The country ought not to
be governed by a narrow aristocracy. But there was
au aristocracy which ruled the country. They were
the men, in fact, who could controul the King, and
trample upon the people. These were the men who
had the purse.strings of the nation at command.
History informed us of various governments which
mankind had had, and persons had at various periods
been attached to each. Some praised monateby ; 1
some were particularly attached to aristocracy ; and
othe:s admired democracy. Under each of these go-
vernments men had at some period or other lived
happy; but in no nation was it ever said that an oh.
garchy. such us that under which England laboured,
was calculated for the happiness of mankind. An
aristocracy, properly so called, could have no inte-
test but in the happiness of the people whom they
governed, nor could a monarch if he viewed his in-
terest properly. A democracy in the small States in
which it had most commonly existed, was calculated
to render the people happy who lived under it, to give
energy to the country, and to add to the extent of
human intellect. The government of England was
however an oligarchy of the worst possible species—
an oligarchy of borough proprietors, who might have
no other property but that which gave them an inte-
rest in the plunder of their country. Such an oli-
garchy was most odious, and at the same time most
contemptible—(Hear, hear).—And was the country
to continue with a representation so constituted against
the direct tenour of the Resolutions of Parliament
itself ? The farther they retraced their history, they
would find their laws breathe more of the spirit of
real freedom and independence. In the law of West-
minster t;ie first, it onus enacted to the same effect
that nu }peat man should interfere in the bringing
about of an election. The Bill of Rights had not
been altogether decisive upon the subject of elections,
whin a single line might have settled what was re-
quired to preserve their privileges to the people. Not-
withstanding that the Convention Parliament did not
sit long enough to complete the great work which
they had commenced, the ex ykio power of the At-
oorney-General was not contemplated by the law,
•and ought to be done away with. That power, how-
ever, unknown to our ancestors, had been given to
the Attorney-General;- and that officer of the Crown
might now imprison or hold to bail any p-rson for
particular offences. What. after such a power, be-
came of all the panegyrics which had been lavished
upon our Juries ? What became Of all that the lu-
minons Lord Coke had written, stating that no man
could be disturbed in his person except he was first
'tried by two Juries, ;he first of which should examine,
whether there was really any ground for what accii-
tation might be brought against him ; and thelecond,
a lair and impartial jury of his countrymen to try
him for whatever offence he might have committed
against the laws. The praises that were lavished
upon those institutions were all mere rhapsodies, for
the benefits which might have accrued from them
were lost by what had been since enacted. The Ho-
nourable Baronet then proceeded to thew that 1,11 A•
chiavel, Montesquieu. and Locke had severally said,
that the downfall of England would follow the cor-
ruption of the House of Commons. Plato had won-
der ed that that should be good in politics, which was bad
in all other transactions relative to human life. Poli-
tical corruption was a thing considered very indefinite
by some people, but it was really too easily capable
of definition. Mr. Wyndham had said a good deal
upon the subject, but he had quite misunderstood it.
Nothing could be more ridiculous than the language
held upon the subject in general. The fact was, that
political corruption meant the acting publicly for an
interest separate front the general welfare, and a man
might be very moral and very religious without be-
ing the less corrupt politically. Suppose a person
possessing Parliamentary influence to have a son, or
some other relation whom he wishes to have made a
Master and Commander in the Navy, he would go,
to the Minister of the day and express his wishes,
urging at the same time the influence which he pos- '
sessed. The consequence would be, that the ap,-
pointment would take place, and all the former stora-
panions of the individual thus promoted; would na-
'turally wonder what superior merit could have raised
their former equal above themselves—(Hear, Afar).
But this, it will be said, is the fault of the people,
who encourage the system ; and it had been interred,
that corruption was greater the nearer we got to the
bottom. The people, in reality, could have but one
common interest ; but the House, as it warat pre•
sent constituted, could not be uncorrupt, although
its Members individually might be the reverse. if it'
was their interest to seek support from the public at
large, they would cease to be a corrupt body ; but
as it was, many would yield to considerations of pri-
vate advantage. The Government must necessarily
be good when it was compelled to go hand in hand
with the people. At present there was a deficiency
of common honesty. By this term he did not mean
to accuse any man, all he intended to infer, was
that honesty which was overturned by a hint to a
Member. Although Parliaments were for seven
years, a Member who came into the House under so.
perior influence must often act against his conscience,
or else be guilty of holding a place contrary to the
wishes of those from whom he derived his power...-
A question had been raised, whether Members ought
to be guided by the opinion of their Constituents

but this question would never have been asked if
they were Representatives of the People. If they
had been chosen in this way, there would have been
none of those regular meetings against which Bill upon
Bill had so lately ken' passed. There would have
been no occasion to have locked for redress, because
they had no confidence in the House of Commons.--
A Noble Lord could not then have successfully ur-
ged to the Knitter, that " we are seven of us," and
have obtained- his ends** by the simple repetiti;iii of
those words. Ministers could not carry on the Go-
vernment without the support of the House, and the
majority of this House was chosen by one hundred
and fifty persons. The very idea of such a thing
would have made our forefathers start. They would
have been astonished at seeing a Minister detected in
subverting the Constitution, and hearing the practice
defended, though contrary to the very spirit of the
Constitution itself. He had often thought that im-
peachments had been cattied too far, particularly
when they had been the work of parties; and even
in the case of the Noble Lord who had been unfor-
tunately detected, be should have thought it hard if
impeachment had followed. But the detection was
a strong argument against the principle, and hr hoped
the public and the people of England would pin an
end to such a dangerous system—(Hear, hear.) He
wished to injure no one, but he wanted to put a stop
to a course of proceeding which was leading the
country to the very brink of ruin. There was a time
indeed when the bare mention of such doings would
not have been borne by the House—(f/ear, hear.)—
When Mr. Pitt introduced his plan for the Reform
of Parliament, he gave due consideration for maiden
coyness, but all that coyness had now completely
worn away to give place to unblushing effrontery as
gieat as could be devised. M my different medes of
remedy had been violet out ; but silver insitting
upon the existence of the grievances, lie should leave
it to the House to decide as to what remedy coil,' be
applied. He should not go into any discussion upon
the abstract principle. 'He was satisfied with point-
ing out where the grievances lay, and the greatest
of those he conceived to be the nomination of
indi-
viduals to seats in the House of Commons. He hoped
to be able to ;Alice the House to inquire into that
fact. The country Gentlemen who used to be fore-
most in the cry of liberty, were new yielding every
thing, and fearing only that the Government of the
country was not sufficiently strong. He, however,
would wish the Ministers to have more of honesty
and less of strength, and think of affording relief to*
a wretched, taxed, overburdened, and starving people.
Instead of our possessing a happy population, there
was no country in Europe.so severely distressed. It
was the interest of the landed proprietors to look to
the condition of a couutry, in which the .inhabitants
could not live by their industry—(hear, heir).
Relief could not be expected from those connected
with the system of corruption, nor was there any
way in which it could be effectually afforded but by
a fair representation of the people; and without this
all attempts at amendment would be fruitless. IVlien
the Representative found, that by taking a sh:liing
from the pockets of his constitumits, he WAS taking as
much from himself, then there would be an. end of.
that profligate expenditure which had lasted for years.
Country Gentlemen were now obliged to forego their
ancient hospitality—they were driven by necessity
from the seats of their ancestors—(Hear, hear,) they
were driven by their creditors to foreign .countries.
To nothing was this owing but to the syecem of cor-
ruption, and there wanted nothing but the Gentlemen
to compel the redress of grievances which had given
rise to all their complaints. They would then be
again placed in the situation of their forefathers. There
was a want of power on the part of the Crown, and
of virtue on the part of the people. From these two
sources spring the bulk of the mischief. It had been
formerly said, that the public did not want a Reform.
This might again be said, when personal security was
at an end, and when meetings for the purpose of ex-
pressing grievances were prohibited, and by the
House of Commons too, which ought to be the guar-
dian of their liberties. The people were in a lar
worse state than ever, and instead of being protected
they found the /loose of Commons in array against
them. He could cite from great authorities the con.
sequences of suffering the House of Commons to con.
tinue unelected by the people at large. Pitt, Fox,
and Earl Grey, had lilted up their voices, and tw
person had wore diligently laboured in the cause of
Reform than the late Mr. Burke, notwithstanding he
had become to enemy to it from having taken alarm
from the French Revolution. Yet no man more felt
the grievance than he did. The Honourable Baronet
then read an extract from the works of Mr. Burke,'
pointing out the necessity of Reform. He would leave
it to the House, whether his observations were not cor-
rect. We had indeed King, Lords, and Commons,
hut the practice of the Goveinrnent prevented the
Crown from exercising its prerogative, while any man
might purchase a shine in the Sovereignty. By the
laws of the Athenians, it was High Treason fur any
but a citizen to come to the Assembly or the,People;
but in this country, it was no Treason against the
Crown, nor was there Treason in attempting to sub-
vert the rights, laws, and libesties of the People.—
No subject that was popular out of the House had
the same fate within, and it was there even deemed
magnanimity to.disregard popular clamour. Vari-
ous Petitions had been laid upon the table of the
House,complaining of the corrupt state of the country,
which had been neglected in defiance of common de-
cency and US COlllatVll sense. Inquiry was clearly
necessary firm the inroads which had been made. At
the Revolution, it was requited that the Privy Coun-
cillors should sign their names to the advice they
tendered to the Crown, in order to incur their respon-
sibility. A law subsequently passed to prevent per-
sons holding placer. from having seats in the House ;
but every thing .that .could be considered a security
WAS removed, or suffered to remain a dead letter in
the Statute-book. The House had no common feel-
ing with the people. '!'fie representatives were alas-
ters and net servants, When the Septennial Act was
passed, Dr. Johnson, who would be looked upon as
a Gentleman in this day, although he might not have
been considered so in his own time, stated, that no-
thing could be compared to that measure, by which
persons who had been elected foe three years only
should have elected themselves for seven years.. At
that period it was pretended that there was a Popish
faction endeavouring to re-establish the exiled family
upon the Throne, that in the then state of the coun-
try an election, might be dengetens. But this could

not be pretended now. Instead hay/eyed jaxebiges
the people were reminded of jacobins, and were told
that nothing ought to be done because some wenld
never feel satisfied. He should move " That leis
House do appoint a Select Committee to inquite 'leo
the state of the representation of the country."
Mr. BRAND seconded the motion, and said, that
after the luminous and discreet speech which
been just delivered—( Hear)—he might not, perhapsbe justified in taking up the time of the House ; but
feeling the urgency of the present distresses, and
knowing that the situation of the people was so de.
plorably altered, he should beg the indulgence of the
House in making a few remarks. Every thing pcin.
ted out the necessity of adopting a prudent Retorts',
unless it was intended to resort to military coercion
to preserve an outward appearance of tranquillity.--
He regretted that the subject was not brought before
the House at an earlier period cf :he Sansaim, as the
people were materially involved in the question._
The House could nut be said to represent the people
in a constitutional sense. The people had petitioned,
cafnmdsttihteuitri petitions
onal r
irights,
:sae, da
nbdeebny deprivingmetbpyste taking ißnt
them
amowrmoa their
tycliurlir
d
liberties under pretence of preserving internal (Het.
He wondered ell those who opposed
oppose the immense military establishment prop sed,
lie should have imep,ined, that the weight. sled re-
spectability attached to the Petitionets ought to have
altered the vices which seemed to have been taken
of them. The country has been strongly excited this
ye a (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches)—
they had been excited by their distresses— (1/ear, hear)
—and their views had been properly directed to the
state of the admieistretitm. Aithough some of their
Petitions had been given in strong .language, yet
some of them had been worded in such a way as to
have demanded attention. The nomination to Seats
in the House by Peers and Conimoners was most in-
jurious to the people, and was subversive of their
constitutional rights. The triendi of Ministers in tee
House were in proportion to the Opposition as five
to one, but the County Representatives were only as
lour to three. This pleinly proved the difference
between the landed and pet sone' interests. He
\k ould say but little of Universal Suffrage, because
that point was not under discussicn ; but even if test
were allowed, the propostion between the Counties
and Jeuenughs wouH be tee sonic. Virtual represen-
tation was not adaeted to the seise ill this V"1,11/y;
that had been the oeihion of Sir William Jeers;--
and Mr. Burke, when it had tesen asserted in the
House of Commons that America was as virtually
represented as Manchester, had said," What, will yea
turn to them the shameful part of your constitution ?"
If the House of Commons were merely to execute
.the decrees of Ministers, the snots dangerous conse-
quences would follow from the wanton confidence ia
their representatives on the part of the people. There
'must lee. A limit to the sufferings of a loyal people,,
and the ii. use .s di ii.),11141 to heir their cumpleints
and to listen to their praeer. There was nn seasoa
to the contrary', except A misapplied anelegy of this
country esid France. What drums the people to arms
against the Government, and occasioned the Revolu-
tion ? Bishop Burnett s aid, that men had been ap-
pointed
to manage the elections, that the King slept
have a Parliament to his need, and that nothing had
caused so much disconcert as the return of 44 Mem-
bers for the county of Cornwall. It had been trely
said by Burke, that " late reformations were c .nde
I tions with a cutiquering enemy, while early reforma-
tions were amicable eriangements with a frierely
I power." Should the voice eat those who plead the
cause of the people be stifled or disregarded, he much
feared that the consequences predicted by the Ho-
nourable Baronet would speedily be realized. The
Honourable Gentleman concluded by declaring that
he cordially seconded the Motion.
1 Sir JOHN NICHOL opposed the Motion. For
his part, he held it undeniable, that this nation ea-
; jnyed many and great benefits under the present Con-
. stitution ; and before blessings of that kind were to
be put to the tisk, he thought they would pause at
least, to consider, that the Constitution being a II1A•
chine of checks, it might either be. stopped by altera-
tion, or urged on to destruction. It was sufficient,
in his opinion, to know that the machine at present
work well., Wbat could be in theory more absurd
than that twelve Jurymen should be unanimous in
their opinions, yet whet system worked more purely
in practice ? He admitted that all Governments
ought to be for the benefit of the People; but an
equal representation of the People was not necessary
to the legitimacy of Government, unless it were
shewrr that such a representation mould be produc-
tive of a greater proem tion of happiness to the ?ensile.
The House of Comminis should be composed ist all
the wisdom, integrity, :and knowledge that could to
brought into it. For the wisdom, it should be eve
posed of men of talent; fur the integrity, of men o:
character and property ; and for the knowledge, et
statesmen, commercial men, agriculturists, ik::—
. And, he would ask, if such were net the coraliasileill
of the House of Commons now ? In his opinion, :'•e
didereut sorts of Representatives were pretty equslly
distributed in the House. Representation, co-exten-
sive with direct taxation, would be an alterative of
various parts of the Constitution, which were liner-.
woven with the manners of the people. If that were
the case, the popidetion of this Metropolis being s 3
numeons, would become, like the Metropolis ot
France in a recent iestance, the complete ty!a'it of
the country. Such an alteration would cause tse
House to be composed of tee demagogues of ,he j'"
1.1 icts which sent them up; of those who ceeed Sent
flatter and cajole the lower orders of the people. It
is true, many of the petitions complained et escise
sive taxation ; but if they complained of unnecessel
taxation, it must he denied; because the taxation WAS
absolutely necessary to discharge the interest of tl'e
public debt. He admitted that this arose Ilona the *A.::
we had been involved in, but if that Hause had lesee ,lts
unison with the,people, would we have had fewer wars.
Was it so in the Democratic forms of ancient or rac-
dern Republics? In our own country, every We
since the Revolution bad been one according to the
_
wishes of the people. Neither did he believe that if
our form of Government had been more democreec.
our expenses in war would have been less. At ieie
time the expenses of the French Republic were nJt
less than :ere millions sterling per mouth. Let tears
'not be guided by pi:nilller clamour ; even popteet
feeling might be misdirected : but wheats the florae
could street with popular
.feeling properly directed, 4
would alwees :Attend to sech lecliess. ,Musts pars

,et takes •t 0 Wilma she *pie I and in feateti,
it- they put to the risk the best blessings nf the,
ititotinn, they world not satisfy either the wise
ir" • ,at part of the people; or the elamorolikand
..intetited.. The agitation of such a question as
danlerous, at a period of general dis.
•.!... Fesznz. He must, however, declare his
lo:Ition, that at the most favourable period, ,
;liar ,t .•:ir happy Constitution must he pro. i
.:;ee:;1 much evil. The Irish Trion eEctel rhuch
a' a: the early Reformers had su7gested, namely,
mt Aa hundred more Members into the House.
•:;;lighten it, as Lord Chatham had propowd.—
eie effects expected from- this addition to the
were not produced, a further increase would
~.yring them about. The persons who now took
.)2 them to manage the business of Reform were
different to the men vino were friends' tit in
.ier periods. In 1782, 1792. and 1793 societies
eae {„tined for that purpose. Them was among the
:„:, the Society of the Friends of the People, of
.;:f; many able men, and men of high respectahi.
Rc, vete mem'aers. That society avowed their ob-
kr, In that object they disagreed with many
roe! %thine views were nut so constitutional. It
vat tri: then ever suggested, as it had been lately,
tat tht measure was. to be carried by • force.—
mcgs were now fallen into .different hands. (Hears)
F.? aid allude to any person in that House, but
I, those nut of doors. ' ( Hear, 140.) The great ma•
tsger, the principal conductor, the nrissitinary and
irde of the question out of doors (Major Cart-
wrilh;) had, in 1792, been the cause of a secession
the Society of the Friends of the People—
Chairman of the Society, and, he believed, ano.
Meinber, seceded, as that penon was :thawed to
rntinue a member—(No, no, from illy. Corwin )-
ii,b,litved he was correct in his statement. There
Tara letter directed by stime of the Members to the
SiCiety, complaining that the person to whom he
(Major Cartwright) was allowed to continue
,member, alter his avowal of a c o-respondence with
teJacobias of France. The lettei was signed by
.enain.iii of the Friends cf the People, and also
the Mcnilser for Carlisle. He believed that per-
ils were.not different now to what they
• thlti, asid yet !I:: was made•the subject of passe-
in that House. Looking to the question of
vc2 itself, to the persons by whom it was now
ad and managed out.of doors, and also to the
: of the population, he would put it to mode-
Reformars, whether this WAS a time to give coon.
to such a measure ? It was ,said by an 'Ho-
able Member (Mr. Brand) that the danger of
eking alarm, might be objected to every proposal
say Reform, however moderate, and that such
ugament might he used against the 'reined) of
es.l. Let the evil be proposed in some defiled
ihtelligible form ; then would be the time for

adoption ut a specific remedy—(Hear, hear.)—
, was not true that the mode of representation could
at be reformed without re-casting the whole system.
It was the opinion of the Honourable Bavoliet (Sir
Francis Burdett) that Parliament, as it existed for the
lot two centuries, was not capable oh amendment.
Many measures had been adopted within that time
to the great benefit of the people. It was even in
theme of the Stuarts that the great bulwatl.: of the
liberties of the people, the Habeas Corpus, tees pass-
td—(Hrar, from the Opposition) —that Law, by
whose operation the people were secured from the
sppmssions of power, and by the occasional sos-
petition of which, the Crown secured the peaceable
and the loyal against the attempts of agitators and
nil.minded men—(Thar, hear, hear). It was within
that period also, that the Revolution took place, that
the Toleration Act was passed, that the Liberty of
the Press was secured. All this was dune by the
system of Representation as it existed at present.—
It was allowed to be a suffiCient protection against
the violence of the Crown, but not against its influ-,
eon. But was -not the influence of the Clown
each diminished in some points within the same
Pen6d? The Judges were rendered independent
si the Crown, contractors were excluded from that
Hone, revenue officers were precluded from voting
at elections. All this shewed that Parliament were
to their guard against the influence of the Crown.—
lhere were not fifty members now in that House who
held places. They were double that number a nun-
tired years back. • It was true the patronage of the
Crown was increased in one respect. it was increased
by the increase of the public debt, by the army and
"°1 but be did not see how a cvange of the repre-
sentation could alter that patronage, or operate as a
meetiee. There was one circumstance that threw
Imre weight on the popular side than all this patron-
age pot together—that circumstance was the publi.
cation of what occurred in the Houses of Parliament.
The agitation of the question of Relorm would now,
is his opinion, be dangerous to the Constitution, with.
via giving any chance of amendment. That Con-
stitution grew up with the wisdom wt ages, and was
the greatest blessing ever conferred upon men—
(dear, hear). —The admiration of it should be in-
(teased by bringing them safe through the last twenty-
'lye year., alter all the miseries and all the calamities
that betel other nations. It brought them to a point
of the greatest glory and happiness that could be en-
Med. If they-were to endanger it they would be
Pity of more then folly and madness, they would
be guilty of a high degree of political criminality.
Lord COCHRANE said, that alter the artful
!alter in which the question had been argued by
rte Honourable Member who spoke last (Sir John
"leg), it might appear presumptuous in him to
his opinions upon the subject. That Honour.
able Member remarked how nicely one side of the
'inese was balanced against the other, but he did
na mend- n by what means the whole weight of it
II" thrown into the scale' against the Public. Ile
spoke of the blessings of the Constitution, but he for-
got to mention that the Constitution did not ex;st.—
14161107 h.) —That it was now annihilated by the sus-
linsion et the Habeas Corpus. He said that the
Tuat!, could not be more fairly represented, that all
He different interests had Representatives to that
Ouse; but he forgot to tell, that there was one in-
Inelt there which preponderated over all the rest, the
7ldees of sinecures and other places under the
`2°``'n• The case could not be otherwise with the
4'optations that existed. Were the present Mem-
rs of that. House the only • men who could resist
dose temptations ? (Hear, hear.) Were they the only
paste age a:— (Hear, hear, front-the Ministerial Barthes.)
'at they the only men who were influenced by nor

. .
Ling eeernsi. Ho* WU Ilse business of thit.Honse
conducted ? Did they not see every day persons speak
on one side of a question, and viite on the other, or
sit on one side of the House during a debatei,and go
to the other when they came to a ? he
had witnessed for the space of ten years while be sat
there. This is What ought to be reformed—corruption
could not go on always; it should have an end ; it
Ate up that House as maggots eat up a decayed cat-
case—(if laugh ) They were the maggots of the Con-
stitution —(4 laugh)—the locusts who devoured and
destroyed the land. Corruption, bribery, and fraud.
(Lard cries of /fear, hear, from the Ministerial side,)
emanated from them. The late war would not have
taken place, or wouli not have continued so long,
were it not for the influence which Ministers exercised
in that House. And what were the glorious results
of the war ? Did it not annihilate their commerce?
Did they not every day see numerous vessels with
brooms at the'r lops ? Did they not tee their sea-
men starving about the streets, and agriculture lan-
guishing for want of any support ? The Honour-
able Members of that House, who were own.rs of
land, should consider the state of the country—if
they did not, they would soon have to repent. (Hear.)
—What had Ministers to fear unless the effect of,
their own delinquencies, of their profusion of the
public money No man, he believed, was more
disposed to act uprightly and to deal fairly with the
public than the Right Hon.. Gentleman opposite
(the Chancellor of the Exchequer) ; but as things
now existed it was impassible for him to condhct the
public business according to his own wishes. It was
impossible that the country could exist any longer as
A great naval nation. It may exist indeed as a petty,
contemptible, military German State; they might
see soldiers parading about the streets with their lone
swords and whiskers, and clattering with their spurs,
but this was no proof of prosperity or greatness.—
Before they called upon the people to reform them-
selves, as had been done that night in the course of
the debate, they should first • take the mote oust of
their own eye. (Loud and repeated cries of flea',
from the Ministerial side.) He was not surprised to
see the Commissioners of the Admiralty cheer, for
they had not taken the mite out of their own eye, but
out of his. (Mar, hear.) People tsllted of the bles-
sing. of the country, of the advantage of having the
proceedings of that House known out of doors—of
the Liberty of the Press—of the Trial by Jury.—
To talk of the trial by Jury was nonsense—(a laugh).
He had seen justice administered with more :eadiness,
with more fairness, with a great deal less chicanery
by the Dry of Algiers, than by some of the juries of
this country—(a laugh).—An open despotism like
his, was a better government than one which carried
on its operations by bribery and corruption, and
suspension of the rights of the people, and then shield.
ed itself under a vote of that House, or escaped
pis-
nishment by some other means. Such a systi .n was
worse than it the country WAS erected into a good
open honest despotism, which he hoped the Noble
Lord opposite (Castlereagh) would do betne long.
As to the liberty of the press, people it was true might
speak their sentiments, but then they were punished
for it afterwards. He heard nothing said by the
Dean of the Arches (Sir J. Nichol!) that could induce
him to oppose the motion. All his Honiiiirihle
Friend (Sir F. Burden) proposed was a Committee.
Why should that be übjected to ? They did not ob•
jeot to Committees, when the object of them was not
to protect but to destroy the liberties of the people.
He did not hope for any Returns while the present
' financial system continuedwhile the extinction of
commerce and agriculture continued—while the fund-
ed system continued—anti while there was no demand
for the labour of the people, as was the case at pre-
sent. It was easy to talk of canals and roads, of
digging holes and filling them up again. Such
things could not go on without commerce ; there
would be no use of them without it. He would re-
commend to Ministers to adopt some means for re-
storing it ; the troubles of the country and its distress
would then cease, and they would have no occasion
for large military establishments.
Mr. CURWEN thought the notorious sale of seats
in that House caused their degradation in the eyes of
the People. It the Honourable and Learned Baro-
net had alluded to Major Cartwright as the person
expelled front the Society of the Friends of the People,
he was mistaken. That House had not taken the
proper precautions to watch over the public purse.
Instead of bring despised, the motion of the Honour.
able Baronet ought to be entertained by the House.
It they did not adopt this proposition. it would be no
wonder it the people were discontented. If pains
were not taken to correct this evil, he was afraid that
ere long it would be too late. There never was a
tunic when the people bore their burdens with mote
resignation ; and it was the duty of the House to af-
ford them every relief in its power.
Mr. WA RD trusted that this question would be
opposed by every one whci, like him, were aware of
its dangerous consequences. A motion of this sort
was always considered by him as a motion for De-.
mocracy and Revolution—(Hear, hear.) The ar-
guments in favour of this measure were certain to
find favour with the multitude ; whilst to argue in
defence of our Constitution required more solid
ta-
lent and ability than was possessed by most men.
It was easy to tell the People they were not repre.
seated in Parliament; they would willingly believe it,
though he was ready to contend, that in no country
were the People so well represented as in this.—
The numerous Petitions which had been presented to
this House in favour of Parliamentary Reform, arose
out of the distresses of the people; two or three yeais
ago scarcely a word was heard on the subject of Par-
' liamentary Reform. Let our trade once revive, and
we should hear no more of it. And, indeed, lie was of
opinion, with all the endeavours of these who favour.
ed the measure, nothing like a general wish in favour
of Parliamentary Reform bad been produced. The
Honourable Gentleman then proceeded to comment
on the speech of Sir Francis Burdett, and observed,
that the Honourable Baronet had laboured very hard
for Annual Parliaments, and had gone back orearly
days of our history, to the time of William the Con-
lqueror. We might at that time, indeed, have had
annual Parliaments ; that was, as he believed, Pattie-
ments held once a year. But did the Hon. Baronet
:recollect that the same persons formed the rarliainent
year after year ? In the time of our ancestors, there
WAS no plan of adaptation of representation to popu-
lation or to property. Else how was it that the little
County of Rutland seat as many Reprewntatirm as

~ . . . •
Voikshire ? and the little Rtgongh of Canon an eqnal
number with the City of Blicol ? It there were a I
fault in this part of our system., it WS a fault for
which our ancestors were answerable. With respect
to Univertsi juffragr. he wished Gentlemen would
look to France : they wotild there see the Cons-en-1
tion assembled by Uitiversal Seirege ; and selii•re in
history, anciant or modern, he .....m.ll ae'c, could be
fooud a history of an A.-.setabiy sr. sanguinary —an
Assembly which had stained the annals of its cairn- '
try with so bloody a page as the Members of the :
National Convention of France had done ?—(Hear.) !
The only friends to moderate reform the Honourable i
Gentleman said were to be found within the Walls ef l
the House where they were protected, and tabrie they
stood the unauthOrized, the inadequate, and the sus-
pected advocates of the people—(/fear).— L'i,e Hn•
nourable Gentleman then proceeded to read some ex.
tracts from Mr. Bentham's Doak on Parliamentary
I
IteCtinl, the title of one of the chapter; to which i
was-0 Ilonnerattle Ihuse incorrisille." In another I
part Mr. Bentham says, .. A inuagst at n. Tor!es these
is waste and corruption"—( Hear. bar.) - . . " amangst
the Whigs as much—(Losulkargiter)— With Pen Re-
form, this corruption will terrain tintooched ; Kith •
moJerate Reform it would la: inzNurnired ; with radical I
Reform it would be tote.:esimixrd ;" as Mr. P,ntham
had a system of his own, so he had a language of
his own, but the House would understand it (Hear.)
The Honourable Baronet had attacked the Boron!'
System, as usual. He (Mr. Ward) considered the
Borough System as a part of the Constitution
(1/ear, 'tear.) —He considered it to be so; and he
Was nos astiamed to sty, that he WOOld as soon part
a ith the County of York out of- the Representation,
as with the Borough of C.q./ Sarrotr—(liear, kear.)
He denied that the Borough System was iojurious to
liberty. He contended it had a contrary ace!. He
would instance the case of Mr. Fox, who, when driven
out of Westminster, end out of Parliament, in 178'2,
was returned for a Beroagh. He would mention the
case of the late Mr. Windham, and he could mention
many others ; and be would ask, was the cause of
liberty most forwarded and ntornoted, or most in.
jured, by their being elected for Boroughs ? and
would it not have suffered materially by their exclu-
sion from Pao liament, winch must have been the case
but for the li•nouali System ? The I-het-unable
Baronet had on frequzia occasions said in the Ii use,
and elsewhere, that the late war was a war of the
Borough System, a was of jobs. He denied it alto.
gether. It was the war of toe peoele more particu-
larly than any taancr war had been. It he were a
Boratighmonger, or adviser of Borotiglimooaers, be
would say to them, court tile accusation as most ho-
nourable to you. As a great man said a, Ronne,
when accused of being concerned in the assassination
of Julius Casar—he declmed he WAS no party, but
t.irat he should be hippy beyond descripti in if be-
could, consistent with untie claim a right to be so
accused. Fur himself he would not on the part of
the people of Engiatid, give up any part of their
cl-situ to merit on this occasion. the war was
their's; the wisdom, magnanimity, and perseverance
wit their's ; the success, honour, and glory of ill ter-1
mination belonged to the people. The Perliamlnt
was only the organ or the people, and never at any I
former petits.' had it been snore faithfully the organ
of the people than on this occasion. To say we had
not a free COnstitution would be a libel on our ancea-
tors who had pnrchased it with shiest' blood, and trans"
mitred it down to us in a most perfect form ; and he
trusted we should hand it down to our posterity un-
impaired in the slightest degree..
Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY, as a moderate Re-
former, should vete for the motion of the Honourable
Baronet, because that motion was to go into a Com-
mittee of Enquiry only. He was not favourable to
what was called tadical Reform; but was that any
reason why he should refuse Retarm altogether?
What danger could arilie from this enquiry, When IL
was considered who were to firm this Committee ?1
members of the House, nut use at whom would be I
found to tav•Jur tmiv,raal suffrage. Fur himself, if I
the inquiry should only pioduce the annihilation of
a single rotten borough, he s!iould consider it as 2,
great goud which had been gained by the country.
Mr. LA/MBE said, nOtAing in the present debate I
could give more astonishment than that the 110.1
nourable Moser and Secouder of this question should
have quoted the opinion of Mr. Burke on this
subject. The Hon. Baronet had certainly a right to
read any passages from !qt. "link'• which h.-thought
proper ; but the passages lie had read were nut di-
rect opinions given by Mr. Burke ; fur, even after
the disastrous war (the American war), Mr. Burke,
when the question was put to him in a direct shape,
declared his (Tinton, that the House of Commons, I
as now constituted, Was equal to the perfamance of 1
all its duties. With respect to the present motion,!
he could not support it. To do so, would be to seek
a popularity at which he should feel nut deserving.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that havinz been alluded to!
by his Hon. Ft lend (Mt. Ward) in so pointed a man- I
tier, he could not at oil throwing himself on the in- ,
dulgence of the House for a few minutes. Having
when young supported the cause, be was now happy,
at an advanced period of lite, to he found in the j
rank where be had first enlisted. Five and twenty
years had elapsed since the date of the petition to
which so much reference had been made in the cotme I
of the debate ; but w i dolt t baiting recently mead
more of it than pans he had seen extracul, he
coald venture to say, that he still cialcurred its it in
the mails —he might, perhaps, even go so far as to
declare, that he abided by it in the whole. Without
vanity lie might say, dial he thought highly of that
petition, because, in point of tact. it was net his rm.
duction as had been supposed: it was the work of a I
Committee, of which, it was true, he had been one of
the most active members ; it was a compound of the
talents of a number of individu its, and in this respect, •
though its no other, it bore a strong resetoblithce
to the speech of the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Ward),
which, from the style of its eloquence and the nature of it; argu-
nients, betrayrd its origin to be in a son of a C.mmintee, formed
of the leading Members ot die Ministerial bench —( L',..?.. mar,
and largitzer).—With all due deference, however, to Or quarter
by which it was dictated, he (Mr. .1 terney) sinkt !lay,. IN:tt it
contained but taus round reasotene ; 'and, however capital and
Bowery the language, 'the substance might be ciimprea-cd into a
very few. whetters- In 1193, as at the presrot moment, the
same state pbraws were used, of " let well akin.," and "things
are just as they should be." And now as then, chow who rtskt
the motion, and particularly the Honourable hlenther .tvet the
way (Mr. Ward), maintain that ail things are in so happy a stare,
that iris impu-sible to improve them' not &Abele can be a:ttred.
for the better,—rinse has made no inroads that
requirerrpair-; ,!.,
Cinisflititiou Is Ai pressm, and aiways win mitt e si.. as

.• . ,
inlosrishable nvidel of perfection for the intrisi to wonder 2,; and
the representation of Oki SAIIIII is just as good as that of the
County of fork—(liar, deerld— fills Is certtinly ail veil
pleasaui, and comes mo,S appropriately fr.int en nanour..ble
t.ientlenzan. who, having berm kicked out of the County of
Worcester, Lad sl.ppml into a this/. Borough, end had tent
taken she:ter it ran id, pursuers —(aarrierei e:ters .1.4 c Gras/.ter),::
lid•doirable NTentlirr who itpdlt, fdad ;,reduced an Ate
of atif Maay, tile.
twsna,so,rti,:ispre:,:ntt the
Wardesi of the eingee Vona from ,ionsilating serve Miln'
as he had. anciently done.
very abuse that Act was Intend:A to remedy, tested at this
Mouleot in a degree as Kagrant 11 ever and was it, not the duty
of the I louse to pas a n.-w etif in* that which bad been
so grossly eiadad ? It the Calamine.. were appointed, he :Mr:
Tieruhy) would undertake re pray, t oat !be Lord Warden cf the
Cinque Ports still procured the noir,: of seven Representatives:
The Hasse had heard of nodal)," hat tights In the course ot the
d. bate • the nghts ot Memnien
') r, of Parliat —the right, of
Close Boroughs—and the n, lot. of thwe wire were in pos.ession
of the good things of this w out, to keep them C. long as sh 7
could: in short, every soil of tilts had b.ru raked about, het
the mos: onnortaot al all —tat r phi n amend—(Ceetiarrd:!ft-ts.)
His Honourable Friend objected, that cerain plac • wou:J '.‘,
shut up, by which ulzat td •airtst C )11.1 he itltru.lu:et! it
blouse. 'lids neelo be tree, but the petition t0..-ained a sins
lir complaint. Another eta:, of obj.csons *at ag isms lireougii I
where 70, or 80, or lOu electors comprised th, w ose
(he would not go so far as to talk of black parse, es in the stric
of hi.• Honourable Friend); the complaint wt., ':rut that thl
tntereit was in the hands cf great Noble-nen, hest 'hat it Wit
solely under the columns of joegiong gnomes. whote mole °Nee:
was to turn a penury—mn who rails i..cpa rr as:out :se:a •
lentt or s t tees ot the timid date, ho' mer.if who was his hth-
ker; who hist -al oichodotot; a ;w0nt...e1.; !lung o' , pre er:'d
Male phthi4Cy oil l ROW wit •nt r,h. .thltm s son
a repeilion ot the pr ..ht ke•-.) I or hi, own eari..he h:d
changed his opinion+ 51 to the proinlel tit eitanststA .r MLitt
r
Torn% ot representatation; yet there was roma ss.no ti o r nc
His Honourable Friend seemed to he cf the 'Ante
saying that he would admit Coryholders to the eraoali se.
He :Mr I iertiry) had also thou do the etymon of et coons 4. •
greet gIICVAUCC, and bad formee.y brought in a WI tie the
jet t, whith lie wa. sorry was rejected. He had then thougilt, •
nutl he still thet;lit, that the dashy I.contotead 4, tou •. Ca sdsu. to
Sto•syla not be al: length of their poses. A. to the duration of
Perilanients, he wasnot prepared to go nitoany learned discussion t'
but he thought that an zuteltarated rep:esenta,lun,alnl adapted td
the toc• in-tante. of tl.e mutes, would be a wlsoleimie refOrm
How nect..sary it wt. that tome returns should lir adopted ap-
peared from this—that if It were thought :kat Parliattleht.were
to tie disaolved, this night the.e would be to ire votes for the
present question. I rue it was that they bad LI en in the con&
dente of the cor,try h he ktaew, indeed, the alswer that wad
ready on the ocher side, that it was thr,m4ll the Parliament we
had gained so much g'urj. If,in 1,..ed, all the gl..ty of die last
t twenty five yti -s were aittilitr:A..c to Pasittment. what might
Bonaparte, when his crop of laurel, were at least no less than
ours,have said to his Parliameiii, Sc loch be,
s it wait well known.
had never consuls ed i he out have Istasteduf Ira succeo)
, and told thent there was use instil set alum or their -deliberarions
It was ttuitrue that I tam titteui;nl lat.erly tarts Illtttlie !.attdi
of perm*. oho had nssught ilia it could lie ^u led by the
i people elude, without any assir. vice Irmo the 6,sher ranks its
the c minty. this doctrine had be. u itimikated at public meet-
ings by an Honourable P. 1..41, who, though he 11,1 J attached
the Whirr; t sew lauee.l that wall wt tlim he would have tie sup:
!tort, and Lad derived the greater patent I.ls err intent from a 'malt
! pot 11131 101 l lairds that mormitg for other pui poses. Ltr:ain he
I' was, that .ueit conduct bail done Mere to Injure the cause ui Var.
hatueniory Reform, thus an ike alglltheati rued aghast it.s.••••
(Neer, hear.)

Lur-41 Mti. lON rose amid erica of querion, and 1.04 Hat he
had Lard 4,444h1ug which h 4441 thaken lois opinion ou thi4
There wa. rut oulLreett Cat guide nut agiunit the ei.nr-ertta;•ns
in PAllsament; and tdl hr WL. c.4nain,..eJ, be ainyrr,44i:4l4-,1 the
the HoS•St .1+1.1.141(4 vote oily olt..onou.
I he Quetdion harm! hren loudly called rar. the Ctlk.?
Clear,tl tur a division, anJ the numbers were—.

Fur the ittutiOn 7V—Ag.tio.t it aos—Vilority IRP.
The other Orders of the 13sy having been litern.ed• f, toe
House a. j4utited at 'l'w° o'clock.

J.U.s llt.)&7:

WEDNESDAY, MAY. 1, Itsl7.
PRICEDF STOCK 4 :MIS DAY A'l' TWIE I Nl'. i'VeLOCIC
It vaeed 7 if —Cinis. Mo. 7211—D0. for Ace. 75:i
4 prr Co. tql—Navy, osi --lodic. Bond, el sere.
Enliequet B es. pr.

Sir Fictscis BURDETT'S motion for a Select Cot-
muter to enquire into the state of the Representatiod
cf the Country in Padirment, occupied the COM.
mons till halt past two o'clock this morning ; nor had
all the Members who sere expected to speak, offe.red
their opinions, whey the cries for the question became
lou,l and urgent: On the division. there were for the
maim' 77, against it '26s—majority IBS. Mr. Pox-
s)Nr.v. it is understood, was presePtited from' attend=
ing, by indisposition; and other Members had left'
the liouse, in the belief that,the debate would beads
j.wlned : the question, however, was got rid of, with:
out even a reply lrom the mover.

New York Vipers to the 19th April • arrived this
morning, but add nothing to the intelligence received a
few d.tys since 1)7 thatniaicis and Chlrleston Raperia

•
The I ollow.ing is an extract of a Letter from • the
Agettis to Ll,tyd% at 1).-ai, slatd the 2iith inst Ult
" N e Platte again Item alongside at. Turkish con'ette In awl
Downs, and colh rte.! the otlowity, ittiorattatiost, to addition to
WWI, we have already adviwtl:---Ahoto rwtt mouth, f.tuce, due
aftnetaid cure-tte ..tiled to contuatly with attielter retrittre't ast4
a sr-W.4ler Iron; • rutsis, with a .pt.:tal Eurollllita 101. tr oar the lkt
of that place, and under bit colours, to collar agalmt vessels bel
boot% to I lanolburgh, Bremen, and the Hanseatic Towns. •
nation whom they have deeared war, and none odor.. .! hyr
saihvl Lea front 'lanyier, about twenty btx *lays since, and ;tan,
that they matte nit other rapt um :tau the two vessels betoighi•
into the Dowth.,,aud tathich vessels they intended to Lave takirl •
to lonia. The schooner partt•d ckeipany with rheas of Cap •
Emisternr, to cruise there; and the two mover 'Li continaed spa
11 pettier, said were in company until the 15th iutaatit, 'sbeu they
atiotrated. They would not live the names of the curette'.:
1 the 114lk 111011 V In the I /owns they earl the Keret: oh, what !toile,
her class only—the other tb.y taU the. gwere..
by that blte.is the Commodere, and which ship is taror Mulatto,
mat in the It No other cruntrrs, according to thew ac.•
mimeo, were fatting out at Tunis: they arksonaledge4l, however.' ,
that three Algetine. were at, sea. enuring to the 6rraits when
they lett that quarter,hut would Lay tong funnel- ,ibeut theni.•
titivate 14;ltets from Pali; w.r.ounce'that the Citt
of Paris has cencluded a l.e:s w"..1. MrAr.% Rot amino and
Co. for 32,000,00 ti franc., or a:10 ,11.1110• • tong 'I he cocunir
stance which led to bud. a ttat.t.acoott war the daily, (Limns, in:
.1.1.r0i nut Brea
1a 1 thirperleds4 than
7 of the
turfed by ketvfod down the wire of eaa to eighteen bou, toe
tour pi.utols, the cost of wt'irk bas
Revolutionary ,hoer runts the itoverom.nt attached rent in,.
potance to the cheapnes; of bread in l'atis, soil th,:eenortd Nto.
mirchy cannot abandon the system, aud.suffer provisions to fin.t
their tesel m the capital or elsewhrre. •

tiuui I,s ELiAtioN—State to the First Day's Poll;
tor Mr. Wolor /MUSIC •...•..... ••.....• 1014
for Mr. Pll.ll r•
Majority for Mr. WWI), fir/efit cra.3713.
• Second Day's ['oh: •
Tor Mr. Wuat tiou.ot
For Mr. PRA
Nijorlty for Mr. Wooemovsi —449.
Walthouse's Committre-roam, Golden-12m,', Clining-fresol
CORN ENCHANOE, MAIM LANG, MAY :IL—We had
el• petty goo.' supply of Whe it trim Suffolk o.is
morning, tor which there was a brisk demand, and
Monday's prices were readily obtained. Barley
also frtel' sale. and Is. per givarter dearer. leans
are per qtar:ei highkr, and Oei v•-ciit off: readily
At Monday's prices. In oilier art,clc, no olteraka

beet
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and the lc
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system of
It was al
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sacs. Itt
touch din'.
Period?
of the Crc
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at election
tn their g
There we
held place
tired year
Crown IC
by the inc
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saltation
corrective
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Fare the