Star.
London, England, 1810-04-13 00:00:00

SIIITHFIELD tIARICET.

• The order (4' the day being read fir the second reading of the
Smithfield Market Bill,

CHARLES PRICE supported the Bill, on the ground that
the impediments which stood in the way when the last Bill was
introduced for the removal of the Market, were removed, as ..
pleci of ground has been procured, consisting of 12-acres, where
the: cattle were now brought previous to their coming to marker.
—He concluded by moving, that the Bill be now read a second
time.

• Alderman COMBS opposed the Bill, because the rre•ent
Market wab held by charter, by which tin ni:trket for the sal of
cattle could he held within ten mile 4 of Smithfield. it wou .1 be I
also extremely injurious to many persons who lived near the liar-
krt,an 4 who in fact depended upon it for the maintenance of twin-
selves and families ; and as it was proposed to add five acres more .

to It, he saw no reason for removing the Market to any other
place, and he therefore moved an amendment, that the Bill be read
a second time this day six morrhs.
Mr. ROSE supported the Bill, on the ground that it was
sary to have an area of 12 acres for the accommodation of the
cattle, and as the enlarging the market would be attended pith an
enormous expence, a new toll would be added by the Corpora,
Lion, which would ra
increase the price of meat.
Mr. HENRY MARTIN opposed the Bill ; and Mr. Wilber.
force, Mr. Windham, Mr. W. Smith, and Mr, Hawkins Browne
were for its being referred to a Committee.
Sir JAMES SHAWE supported the Amendment, on the
grounds that dye acres more were offered for the enlargement of
the market, which would then make it eight acres in the whole,
which would be ample and sufficient. The House then divided.
For Alderman Combe's Amendment, -Ayes 20—Noes 70--ma„
jority against the Bill 10.

BOARD OP ORDNANCE.
Mr. CALCRAFT waived the motion for the et.
pulsion of Mr. Hunt till Monday, as the House w:h
not yet in possession of some necessary letters. He
should therefore confine himself to a resolution re-
specting the securities. It appeared, that the Master.
Genera of the Board 'of Ordnance had been guilty
of a great breach of - duty, by which the country
would lose aftlo,ooo, in not requiring from Mr.
Hunt, on his entering on his second Treasurership
the securitiereprescribed by the instructions of Charles
H. A letter from the Secretary of the Ordnance
had been written to Mr. Hunt on the subject, but
no answer had been received, nor did it appear that
any farther step had been taken on the subject. He
conceived that this was an indefensible breach of
duty which the House could not pass over. He enu-
merated the Members of the Board of Ordnance,
and contended that they had not that overwhelming
kind of business, in pleading which they might find
excuse for such a breach of ditty. The first-Rest:du.
Lions that he intended to propose were of fact; the
last Resolution was of cencir:-.. The Honourable
Gentleman then read his licsolutiens, %%Lich were to
the following effect :
Resolved—'l hat it appears to this House, Joseph Hunt, Fsc.
Member of this Hous:, has been twice Treasurer ot his Majesty's
i Board of Ordnance. That he was nearly 18 months in that office
I en his first appointment in 1803, before any secunty ss s.s c.li•
tained, and that on his second appointment in 1807, i: is not re.
corded in the Ordnance Department, that any security vihatsoevet
was given by hint.

2. —That it appears to this House, there Is a balance of £93,94G
against the said Joseph I hint, Esq. as late Treasurer of the Ord-
=nee.

3. That it appears to this House, the Master-General did.
Majesty's Ordnance is directed in the original instruction of Kin
Checks 11. under which he and the Board now act, to take frail
the Treasurer upon his first entrance on the vtecution of his place,
security to such an amount as he may judge necessary, and as shall
be aprroved of t, the Treasury.
4. 'That it appears to this f lau.e, the !e:surity taken in the first
Treasurership of Joseph Hunt, l'sq. nearly i a months after his
entrance on the execution cf his place, was XlO,OOO.
breach of the in.
5. That it appears to this House, no security was taken on the
second apppintment of Joseph Hunt, Esq,
Y of
f which a they
r)
sd
uonfderOrdnance,which t
hheayv have
ctb,e been
and
uiiilyt
G. '1 hat it is the opinion of this House, the Master-Genera)
: tnrdu el It
roal
hound, in negh:ciing to take security from Joseph Hunt, Esq.
Member of this House, and are responsible and censurable for
this great omission of duty, which from the slate ofthe balancei
against the said Joseph Hunt, Ely. has actually occasione4 a loss
of £lO,OOO to the publip.
Mr. ASHLEY COOPER did not rise to oppose
the motion of Mr. Calcraft, but to propose two other
resolutions. The one, stating in substance, that the
Board had required the necessary securities, and ths
other granting leave to bring in a Bill to re ulate es' d
mode of granting securities in such cases. e, how:
ever, thought the resolutions now propo rather
severe, and said that there was no general charge of
suspicion or neglect against the Board.
Mr. PONSONI3Y expressed his astonishment at
the odd sort of defence set up by the Honourable
Gentleman. What had the Bill he proposed to do
with the punishment of past, and undeniable neglect
of public duty ? There was a ciear case before them;
and if the House would pass it over, they never could
again assume even the name of guardians of the pub-
lic purse, The sum, to be sure, of £lO,OOO was not
alarmingly great ; but that had nothing to do with
the principle cf the question. If the House passed
this over, it would be a vain attempt to persuade the
people of this country, that that House paid the
smallest attention to the public interests. '
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
did not deny, that there had been a neglect of chat,
hut he thought the censure proposed was rather at
the extreme ; £lO,OOO was not lost to the public,
for the person who had absconded was himself bail to
the amount of £5OOO of the whole sum., At the sane
time he did not mention this as a palliation of the
neglect that had occurred. He spoke highly in cores
mendation of the services of Mr, Crewe, and though*
they I;ad a strong claim in the present instance epee
the House. He defended the propriety of the remedy
in the Bill proposed by his Hon. Friend, and thought
the prevention of more consequence than the punish-
ment of an individual.
Mr. BARHAM said, that he did not feel himself
bound to consider.upon whom the ceesure was to fall,
but simply whether the censure itself was not just.,-4
He ridiculed the idea of a Bill to compel everrpublic
officer to do his duty. He
,admitted he should feel
pain in the vote he WO about to give, but no such
consideration was to deter him from his duty.
Mr. WHITBREAD could not conceive what •
could be the extraordinary weight of business, that
occupici a Board sitting but three times a week, se
much as to prevent they attention to minor duties, as
they had been called. Did the Board look over the
minutes of their proceedings upon the last day of
meeting, on the next succeeding day ? Another !soli t
was, that there had been no Master-General of die
Ordnance for a month. Could the Board continue
to do without their most efficient officer ? He denied
that the proposed censure was as severe as it had heed
alledged • it was contained in one word, censurable,
for all the rest of the Resolutions related simply to
matter of fact. It the House could overlook the
case now before them, it would he as well not to
bring allegations of this kind at all. He submitted
it to the modesty of the House, if they could accede
to the very qualified censure proposed by the Right
Honourable Gentleman .'
Mr. GEORGE JOHNSTONE contended, that
the loss sustained could only be- regarded as £2500 •
from each surety. It would be viewing the matter
too lightly to pass by this conduct of the Board alto-
gether without censure ; but still he could not go the
full length of the Resolutions. He shouW.move, in-
stead at the Vote of Censure, 44. That the Board of
Ordnance had been guilty 4t- an omission of their duty
in neglecting to take securities from Joseph Hunt,
Esq. a Member of this House, and late Treasurer
' of the Bciard of Ordnance, conformably to the insult:. j
!Lions usdtr which they acted."

11r. CALCRAFr &elated that this Hotionrable
Czn
d opposite seemed to set .At defiance all the
which public men ought t o governed.
.
Pfr•lr ncles by what purpose were there five 'verniers of the
Board(' of Ordnance ? For what purpose had they
such large salaries ? Whei was Air. Crer e ? A most
re,-peetable individual certainly, but only the Seem.
try
of the Board, whose business it was ro see thei,.
on orders carried fully into execution. The balance
sinst Mr. Hunt had never been known to the Board
ill it was found in the Report on the table. Could
the Honourable Gentleumit opposite say that it was?
(gr. A. Cooper replied in the affirmative). That
cu so extraordinary that if he had not heard the
Honourable Gentleman say so he would not have be-
lieved it. In equity, the Members of that Board ought
to make good the loss which the public had sustain-
ed from their neglect. If the House passed this over,
he, as a member of the community tvho wished the
goase of Commons to be respected, should sincerely
I,rvist it. He was astonib.:'24l to hear the Chancellor
cfe e Elchequer endeavour to throw the blame from
'
and assert that the Secretary was the most
o:surahie person. The Board were responsible, and
the secretary not censurable. Were he to select the
member of the Board to whose peculiar department
the duty that had been neglected belonged, he would:
thatsp it belonged chiefly to the Clerk 4i the 0rd....
aw
The first resolution was then agreed to. On.. the.
.second Re:dation being put from-the-.Chairi -
Mr: ASHLEY COOPER stated, that a-Gentle.:
Iva of the name of Ridge had been appointed Agent •
ef Artificers while the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
calculi) was in Office, and though large, sums of
looney had passed through his hands, no securities
;id beta given by him.
Mr. CALCRAFT conceived himself to be cased
as in a coat of mail against any attack of the Honour-
able Gentleman. Ilhe, in the discharge of his public
duty had not executed it in a complete, conscientious,
xhi perfect manner, he should be obliged to the Ho-
Doarable Gentleman to bring itforward. He did not
recollect hearing of any charge against himself on
this subject, to the present moment. If there was
ary to be made, and the Honourable Gentleman
thought he could bring it home to him, he hoped he
roulal do so in the strongest, clearest, and most dis.
tact manner. If, however, it should be shewn to be
.a times mor. culpable than it could be aUedged to be,
rail it would be no set-off against the present charge.
Tbc present Board of Ordnance had infringed on the
etpress Letter of their Instructions, in the case of the
Treasurer; he could only be supposed to have extr-
c:setl his discretion in relation to an agent, as to whom
haLl no instructions. _ _

Vt. GEORGE ADAMS thought the case cited
*bilk Honourable Gentleman (Mt. Cooper) had no
iieing on the present question.
PERCEVAL agreed in this, but thought it
oral for his Honourable Friend to allude to the
Cie after the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Calcraft)
'al, in such pointed terms, stated how strictly he
lid attended to the duties of the office when he held
it It might have induced that Honourable Gentle-
=to leak with somewhat of a milder eye on the
ferilags of others, when he-saw his owl. perfections
tott- complete as he had supposed.
Kr: POYSONBY said, whatever effect the appeal
ci ;:z Right Hon. Gentleman might have on hi*
fritud, it could have none on him. One ne-
,i.ei.t cf duty forme' ly could not excuse another now.
*: Caali iiowever, were not at all alike. The case
AIN was one of agency in the appointment of
the VL:ci.Gelicr al, and as to which no minute came
Beard. Here, however, the Board could
ignorant of the fact, having themselves called
lir at to bring forward his securities. There
immense difference between a Treasurer
ihrve millions passing through his hands,
..%! -in :igent in an inferior department. If the charge
•iiir,;! his I li,norriable Friend (Mr. Calcraft) how:
ev,r, vr:e tr::e to the fullest extent, it would only
.L.:un: to a diarge of recrimination against him, not
!r a :ustitieati.in of the present Board. On the pre-
v:tca.-e the Hoirse was now bound to give its opi-
nil When any charge should be brought forward
:A.,1 the other case he should be ready to give a con-
-...pLOUS vote upon it.
lime other four Resolutions were then put, and
*I:V.I

On the Gth Resolution, declaring that by the breach
eiduty on the part of the Board in neglecting to re-
?ire securities frurn Mr. Hunt, an actual loss of at
emoo had been sustained by the country, for
tiich the Board were responsible, and for which Ile-
Z4t they were highly censurable,
Mr.G.JOHNS PONE brought forward hit amend-

`That it is the opinion of this House, the Master-General anti
and of Ordnance Lave been guilty of an omission of duty in
to take security from Joseph Hunt, Esq. Mesitber of
and tste Treasurer of the Ordounce, in conformity
'"`eiuuruai.und;:r which they act."
After a few words, the original Resolution was ne-
PlNed, and Mr. Johnstone's amendment agreed to
t-.iotit 1 divis:en.
Mr. CA.LCR AFT thanked the Chancellor of the
•-xclleqter for the vote he had at length gjven, by
ho admitted that the blame did not attach
7, t!ic Secretor-, as lie originally contended, but
? Boar,. fle now thought it his duty to defy
'!.; I inn. Friend opposite to bring forward the charge
!:I:itied to against him. He should not call him his
remi r'.llly, but his thrice honoured Friend, if he
(L) s.), and .tiord hint an oppi;itunity of meet-
He tinor,ht it impossible, after the Il
T,esoltt-
,,, lot ad )pt(d by the House, that they should now
(411 in declaring the conduct of the Board to be 'cen-
rible. If they did not do so, away at oncewith all
-leas cf votes of censure proceeding tram that House,
V:. G. JOHNSTONE certainly thought it* .his
,611 T to vote against this Resolution. The House
'ad already censured the conduct of the Board of Ord-
'lre la this particular. To prevent the possibility
2 the retterrence of such an evil was now the pre-
rerable mode of procding. This, he thought, could
"` "117 done by Bill; but, he hoped it wauld pr
vide. that the securities should be in a greater proper°.
t° the sums passing through the Treasurer'a
amiasu_ th!n they Itt_proent bore.
ills
• %HITBKEAD thought it impossible for the
411• atter the resolution they had come to, not to
c up with censure. The Right Honourable
:ellueulau (Mr. Perceval) bad at first endeavoured'
? 'stow the blame on Mr. Crewe, and had no objec-
'"'l to hit being Tamed; provided he could screen