Star.
London, England, 1819-06-03 00:00:00

ONDIAlier IST2I[ATLB.

Mr. .R. W4RD briefly stated ate charges 7
appeared in Ordnance Estimates of the'
par compared with those of the last. re-
t on seeount of superannuation allowances
.ansoetiied to about £50,000. There was a reduction
of 1,824 Officers, artillerymen and drivers, the num-
ben having been in the last year 9,759, and being at'
present but 7,935. The total expense of the Ordnance
was now brought down to about £1,100,000 front
£8,400,000 which it had amounted to during the war.
He moved for a grant of £386,262 in full discharge
of the Ordnance for the land service of 1819.
Mr, HUME said, that he observed £1,500, exclu-
sive of the expense of materials, charged for the ma-
nufacturing of gunpowder. The consequence of this
manufacture was very injurious to the manufacturers
of gunpowder throughout the country. He hoped,
therefore, it would be given up by his Majesty's Go-
vernment beyond what they actually wanted. There
was another item with respect to which he wished to
ask a question. How were vacancies in the Staff of
the Artillery filled up He had heard that the Mas-
ter-General had ordered that every other vacancy
should be supplied by a Cadet from Woolwich, and
a Half-pay Officer. If it was so, thanks were due to
him for that arrangement. 'He had stated, whet the
Army Estimates were voted, that a similar arrange-
ment ought to have been adopted in the Army, by'
which £330,000 would be saved in getting recruits.
Besides, there was great injustice iti appointing any
other to a vacancy instead 'of a Half-pay (11Fffieer.
There was one other item to which he begged to ad.
vert. Many items charged were new entirely, bei
these were ethers with which they had been long fa-
miliar. The Committee, now so much relied on,
had recommended that Ceylon, the Matiritius, the
Cape of Good Hope, Heligoland, and the lonia°.
Wands, should pay their own expenses ; yet they
were all charged in the present Estimate to the
'amount of £620,000. Why was their recommenda-
tion, which was so much attended to when agreeable
to Ministers, neglected in this instance? Why was
not this sum, More than half a million sterling, saved
to the country ?
Mr. R. WARD acknowledged that he was con-
nected with the first question respecting the manu-
facture of gunpowder. The gunpowder manufac•
cured was superior in point of excellence to any ma-
nufactured through all the world. The manufacture
was, however, reduced to the smallest quantity that
could keep it alive. As to the second question, he
did not understand It, for the Artillery had no Staff.
(Mr. Hung said across the table that it was, how
10fficers were appointed to vacancies?) The Honour-
able Member proceeded next to reply to the question
as to the Colonies. The usual charges were only
continued, no provision being made for disconti-
nuing them.
The sum of £'0,094 16s. 10d. was granted for the
current service, contingencies, stores, &c. on account
of the year 1818, not provided for by Parliament,
after a remark from Mr. Camila/1T that £14,000
appeared to him sufficient foI the purpose.
The sum of £lO,OOO was then proposed, for de-
fraying the expenses of the Reduction of the Ord-
nance Military Conn for the year 1819.
Mr. HUME said, that he should not object to the
Estimate laid before the House; supposing it to be
true, that the powder manufactured in his Majesty's
powder-mills were of the superior nature which it]
had been stated to be : he could not, however, help+,
+stating, that £7,000 for 1,000 barrels was a most+
enormous price, and only to be defended on the
ground of the great excellence oldie article purchased.
He had been informed, that the gunpowder manu-
factured at private mills in this country was by far
the best in Europe. The Honourable Member was
proceeding to make some further statements, when
he was informed by Mr. Bkoones, the Chairman,
that he had totally mistaken the subject then before
the Committee. The question was, not whether they
should grant a specific sum for she purchase of the
gunpowder, but whether they should grant £lO,OOO
tor the reductions which he had before mentioned?

Mr. HUME said, that as such was the case, he
should shorten the other remarks which he had to
make. Ile wished to know why the Accounts for
1814 had not yet been delivered for audit to the
proper officers?
Mr. R. WARD said, that perhaps tle Honourable
Member was not aware of the difficulty which existed
in making the Returns to which he (Mr. Hume) al-
luded. The officers by whom they were to be trans-
mitted to this country, were in almost every part of
the globe—some were at Malta, others at Gibraltar,
some in the East and others in the West Indies. He
could inform the Honourable Gentleman, that a pro-
secution had already been instituted against some
officers, for their neglect to make these and other si-
milar Returns.

The grant was passed without further remark.
The sum of £275,667 18s. was then granted on account of
the Allowances to Superannuated, Retired, and Half pay Offi-
cers, to Officers for good services, to Superannuated and Dis-
abled Men ; also foe Pension. to Widows and Children of de-
ceased Officers, late belonging to the several Ordnance Military
Corps, for the year 1819.
The sum of Ss. Sd. was then granted on the above-'
mentioned heads of Accounts, for Woken periods between the
Ist of January and 31st of December, 18111, and not provided
for by Parliament.

The sum of £34,464 2s. 6d. was granted for Soperannnated,
or Retired Allowances to the Civil Officers, Artificers, and La-
bourers in the Office of Ordnance, and also for Pensions to
Widows, and for Offices suppressed.
£161,001 15s. 4d. were granted for the Civil and Military
Expenses of .the Ordnance in Ireland.

;e19,000 were then proposed on account of Allowances to
Retired Officers of the late Irish Artillery and Engineers, sod
also for Pensions to their Widows

Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to know what had
become of the Establishment at Kilmainham. There
were 300 acres of land attached to it, which produ-
ced a considerable revenue ? Of this he'saw no men-
tionin the Public Accounts.

Mr. R. WARD said, that these lands had been
let to the highest bidder, and that the amount of
,their produce was to be found in the Army Estimates.

EXCHILQUILK BILLS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said
that he had five distinct grants to propose to the con-
sideration of the House. The first was, that the sum
of £3,595,600 should be granted to his Majesty to
pay off the t :chequer Bills which had been charged
on the Supplies of 1818, and which were.y nuprq-,
vided for by Parliament.
Mr. GRENFELL observed, that in thi rinsasits
which heTelt it his duty to offer to the gonaeco,th:j
present occasion, he had no intention of reviving

the 110411 C
eissiinestiz w
Hh
ei c hw be
would,
band
however,
before it, as they would distinctly chew what
dotteadeve lr,gpcbalmil upon the 661.
as'
to look at the accounts which on his motion had been
*mid have been the effect of the Sinking Fund, as
le been
nc nl
e
traappeltiedca.blemtioe tehfreetfot uofr ltahset
RloaignhstwHhoicohourahhad
's (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) having
acted on the system which he had recommended with
reitegveaordmtoillthioonses
ilooa
jnoszhelhmle3atntttilhaet loolfint:fest=wyo•
illions in November of the same year; that of
twenty-four millions in the beginning of 1814 ; and
of that unexampled loan of thirty-six millions in
ithsseioneporhsliofe,
Debt,e saveder,
in to the Commissioners
to
other
words,
tlhBels N—atwiomnalld have
six millions sterling—a saving which would have
om
fporeroduhcaevdeanadadnenduittoy othfeE2re6vBeo, and would there-
fore a sum more than
equivalent to the sum raised by that most odious and
obnoxious of all taxes, the Lottery Tax. If he was
correct in this assertion, his plan would have saved to
the nation, in perpetuity, so much of the revenue as
was now raised annually in such improper and ille-
gal methods. How far the old system was to be acted
on when a new loan was contracted, was a sub-
ject well worth future consideration, especially if we
were, as some persons asserted, upon the eve of one
at the present moment. The Sinking Fund applica-
ble to the service of the year was about fifteen or six-
teen millions in amount: the loan, it was said, was
to be thirty millions ; so that the question was, whe-
ther they would go to the loan contractors for the
whole of the sum wanted, or whether they would
touch the Sinking Fund for part of it ? He would
entreat the Right Honourable 'Gentleman opposite,
who he hoped had not already committed himself,
to reflect once more how far what he had pressed on
this topic was correct and reasonable. This consi-
deration led him to notice a rumour which had been
very general throughout the day, and which he be-
lieved in his conscience to be nothing more than a
base calumny on the character of the Right Honour-
able Gentleman. He appealed to those Gentlemen
who were conversant with the City, whether it had
not been currently reported there that the Chancel-
lor of the Exchequer had communicated to the loan
contractors, and to the loan contractors only, the
sum which he intended to raise for the services of the
year ? If he had made any such communication, he
had given a most improper advantage to the loan
contractors ; indeed, he (Mr. Grenfell) must denounce
it as equally unfair to the stockholder and to the
Public. The Right Honourable Gentleman ought
to have made sucb communication, if indeed lie had
made it, on Thursday last, previous to the holidays;
but for his own part, he did not believe thatany such
communication had taken place, and could not con-
sider the rumour as any thing else than a. mere ca-
lumny on the Right Honourable Gentleman. He
stated it, however, thus publicly, in order to give the
Right Honourable Gentleman the opportunity of con-
tradicting it.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
allowed that the observations which• the Honourable
Member had just made were of considerable import-
ance, and were well entitled to the attention of Par-
liament; but at the same time remarked thatle had
no right to assume such savings as he had done. His
argument proceeded upon this principle, that if the
Sinking Fund had been taken, the loan might have
been raised upon better terms than those en which it
actually was raised ; but he (the Chancellor of the
Exchequer) could by no means accede to such a po-
sition--(Hear, Apar.) Therefore, though he would
not at present say whether the Honourable Gentle-
man's scheme would or would not be of advantage
to the Public, he hoped that the House would not
conceive it to be of advantage without seeing some
proof of it. With regard to the Sinking Fund, he
could state, that no hint, application, or intimation
had been given to any individual. In answering this I
question, be had also answered the second question
which the Honourable Gentleman -had put to him.
In his communication with the persons whom he ge-
nerally met on financial arrangements, he could not,
perhaps, help making some communications as to
the sum he might require: he must, however, state;
that nothing formal had passed upon the subject.
Mr. RICARDO said, that if the Right Honourable
Gentleman had informed all the loan contractors of
the amount of the loan which would be wanted for
the arrangements of the year, then the whole Public
would have been rendered aware of it. If, however,
this information Was not given to all of them, but
restricted to a single loan contractor, it gave a great
advantage to that individual, and prevented that
competition which it was the interest of a Minister to
encourage. For himself, he could affirm, that no
such information bad ever reached him (Hear, hear),
but as the rumour was so strong, and as its details
were so particular, he could not doubt that some such
communication as his Honourable Friend had men-
tioned had actually been made.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER re-
peated his former denial, and said that no commu-
nication had taken place, except as to a conversa-
tional question. He should be happy to make the
same communication to the Honourable Member who
had just sat down.
Mr. GRENFELL rose, and with some degree of
warmth asserted, that he was himself convinced,
and he thought the House must be convinced like-
wise, that such a communication had been made—
(Hear).—He-had originally conceived the rumour to
be a mere calumny ; but he could do so nu longer,
as e.Right Hon. Gentleman had confessed that het
bad made it to some persons; those persons, he had
little doubt, were some of the Loan Contractors.
The Loan was said to be for £30,000,000, and he
was satisfied that this report was true. It therefore
led him to believe another rumour which he had
heard, that he (the Chancellor of the Exli.equer) did
not intend to apply to the Sinking Fund. He had
Indeed been told that the Right Honourable Gentle-
had said, that if improper terms were proposed
pSy the Loan Contractors, he would use the means
which he had in his own hands. He could wish to
leow why he would net? and his reason for think-
ing that he ought was this—that while no single
Contiactor would dare to grapple with a Loan of
00,000,000, several would grapple with one of
.C 15060,000. The communication which had 'been
made to those individuals, whose names were in the
•
mind of every MOoberin the House, was conferring
upon thcin a saM'extoordiaary advantage. Would

I'the Right Honourable Gentleman gratify the lie,
by giving it the information which had been es,:
these Loan Contractors?—(Hear, heat )--0," „;
.he state any reason for withholding it froni the 116;
—4Heer).--He was sorry that he had enter tain.t
frourable an opinion of- the Right Hon. Gendirmit
character; but he must repeat, that he tnnsi
all the rumours to be perfectly well founded.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQUER it
ready to state all the communications which he h:
i ever made upon the subject. He had asked. in ;
course of conversation, whether a Loan of £130,000,
Ito cover the expenses or the next
,year a:al the In
sent, or a small Loan for the present year, or an 4,
plication to the Sinking Fund, would be the in 4
advisable course?
Mr. BARNETT, alluding to the conversation th
had occurred upon the subject, observed, that us
the present circumstances it almost became the di
of the House to interfere and prevent a Loan ah
gether—(Hear.)
Lord MILTON said, that the Right Honour*
Gentleman. had almost confessed the ci rcumstarr
which had been imputed to him: for it was clt
that he might ask a question in such a manner
would tell the person to whom it was addressed, ml
it was his intention to do--(Hear).
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER la,
that he had asked the question with a view of disc,
vering what would be the most efficient plan.
Mr. BARNETT repeated his inrmerobservation.
Mr. GRENFELL said, that if the Right Honk
able Gentleman suffered himself to be i:,Aucliced i,
the loan contractors, be would not be discharging l;
ditty to his country in the manner ‘..hich that cos,
try had a right to expect that he should. Were 6
loan contractors a fit body of men to ask whether.
'loan .-.hould be £30,000,000 or A.:15,00:),000 ? ill
thought not. On a former occasion, when a simii
question had been put to them regarding the er
diency of a loan for £12,000,000 or £2,".
they had one and all answered (with the except
his honourable Friend) that a loan of £24,001,
would he more advantageous to the Public—he
lieved that they meant to themselves—(Hear, heal
The Grant was then passed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved, that 1:3,000,0000 he granted to his Nlajt,
to pay off certain other Exchequer Bills, in the /-
of the Mink.

Mr. GRENFgLL said, that when this money
been borrowed, some intimation had been tl,
out, that though the Bank were entitled to 41
cent, as interest, they would allow the public toll:.
it without any interest, owing to the balances %di(
they i etained in their hands. He wished to '

whether any or what pavitient: had been paid to
Bank, as interest upon this sum ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER:
that to the best of his knowledge, no payment of
terest had been made to the Bank. The Honoeral
Gentleman, however, was.as well acquainted
this subject as he was at present.

.Sir JOHN NEWPORT thought that this was a
question which ought to come before the House for
a decision, because, whatever op;nion might be en•
tertained of the liberality of the Bank, the
for of the Exchequer ought to have communicated
plain statement of the real circumstances to t
House, in order that it might take steps to pay ~
these Exchequer Bills, or else that it might oot rest
under ir dekusion that no interest would be demanded
for them.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER _
that it had been his intention to have brought this
subject before the consideration of the Secret Com-
mittee upon the Affairs of the Bank.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that if
House would examine into this question, they would
have a noble opportunity of seeing the extreme libe-
rality of the Bank.
The grant was then acceded t0.—£1576,339 6s. Bd.
were then granted to pay off the interest of the Un-
funded Debt in Exchequer Bills and Irish
sury Bills.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved that 04,400,000 be granted to pay off
outstanding Ithla Treasury Bills.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that whatever
might be the intrinsic advantage of an investment is
these securities, it was generally frustrated by the
delay which took place in obtaining them. He knew
this from having once had occasion to invest the pro-
perty of a relative of his own in these securities ; and
he then found that the greater part of them u
absorbed by the Banks of England and of Ireland.
If an investment of this floating nature were mini.
site, there ought either to be a greater quantity of
them in the market, or the advantage of them ought
not to be entirely destroyed by the delay occasioned
in procuring them.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that the uncertainty of the Irish market made it diffi-
cult to supply it with these securities. If any plan
could be devised to render it more certain, he should
be happy to lend his assisance to the accomplish-
ment of it.
6ir JOHN NEWPORT supposetribatt rut'ii
Bills might be disposed of in Irelattd in
manner as they were in England.
Mr. GRENFELL said he understood, that who,:
the Bank bought silver bullion, and sent it to the
Mint to be coined, they received in return for it what
were called Mint Notes. He understood that these
Bills carried interest, at a rate very injurious to the
Public, from the day when the silver WAS first de);-
, vered at the Mint, to the day when it was returned
coined to the Bank. He wished to know, whether
this was or was not the case : if it was the ease, what
was the rate of interest which the Bank received?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
replied, that the Bank had at present received no in-
terest on these Bills. Whether, under existing cir-
cumstances, they would expect any, the Honourable
Gentleman was as able to judge as he was.
The Grant w:,, then passed.
11:4.,300,000 were then granted to pay of die Ex-
chequer Bills charged on the Aids . granted by the
last Parliament.

Lord MILTON asked why certain Returns of British Offi-
cers in the service of Foreign Statca had not been laid ups)
the table?

Lord CASTLEREAGH would snake enqury.
BRITISH 11USLUM.

Mr. BANICES--iit;;Q:ihW 40,018 .;horrid be
granted fat the use nfthe Dritidt.Mtunatn..,Granted

the iht
en oil
-Or %v.
the I(
tidn,d
itntlensk I
smnsid
led.
ZCER
;ch he h
kecb in
30,000,y
si the
or an
the ?t,.
'cation
that tan,
te the d ,
Loan an
ionourali '
rcurnsti
was
manna
essed,
lUER sa
V of diSc.
ervatinn,
it 11,
lucticed t,
sat-ging
that cou
Weret;.„
L•hether
U 00? lb
A sinit4
the ex,
xcept ion
24,000 t
k--he
as, hear.)
!UER .
tis
the •
Tloner
en throw
to 41
lic to hare
ices which
i to know
said to the
ERstated,
sent of in-
fonoerable
inteci with
his was a
House for
ht be en-
Chancel-
articated
es to do
to pay of
at oot rest
demanded
LTER said,
night tha
cret Com-
a if the
sey would
reme
6s.Bd.
of the Un-
ids Treat-
IYER then
ay off the
whatever
mtment ia
ed by the
He knew
st the pro.
-ities ; and
sem were
f Ireland.
ere mini.
uantity of
em ought
ccasioaed
JER said,
de it dim-
inc plan
he should
41321:11i5h.
iry
tie?sahte
hat w 4.
t it to the
n- it Wh.tt
hat these
Has to the
a__. A.l;_

the Ceetutivar brought rip the Itepiort, latch
ordered to be taken Into consideration to-morrow.
rmarmas OF 1/Flt COtNTRY.

ole CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER.'
that before the conclusion of the arrangement's:
,I it in contemplation to make, he wished to
on in 'the House a more extended discussion '
the Finances of the Country, than could.
,onveniently done when the Budget was intro-
:et': in order to raise such a discussion, it was his
„tion to propose that the first Report of the Com-
o on Income and Expenditure, containing the
aeral views of that Body upon the subject, be re-
Ted to a Committee of the whole Houses he would
ve that the House should to-morrow resolve itself
the said Committee ; and he would then offer
tain Resolutions, the further consideration of which
be tit to adjourn until Monday.-(Aoar, hear).
Lrb.6l/ENFELL asked whether the discussion on
thy would include the Budget fir the year?
he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
;need in the negative.
ASSESSED TAXES.
he CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave
:e, that he would move to-morrow that the House
Ire itself into a Committee on the Assessed Taxes
with a view to consider the propriety of their
olidationa—(Hear, hear).
COURT OF CHAP:CRAY ORZLAIIIO
Ir. GRANT observed, that in bringing in a Bill
~e,z.ilate the Fees in the Court of Chancery in•lre-'
Clio had to claim the indulgence of the House,
as a matter of great importance to the sister
Some years since Commissioners were ap-
iied to inquire into the Fees paid in the Courfiof
Lccry and Exchequer in Ireland ; those Fees had
been a matter of complaint, and were carried
r as in many instances to impede the ends of
ice. On inquiry, it was found that a scale of
had exited in 17%, and had been acted upon
to 1767. Since that period the expenses had
:ally increased, in some instances so much as 50
cent. The Right Honourable Member proceeded
tate instances of the abuses found to exist. One
, that of charging the stamp duty on a sheet con-
ing 72 words, instead of 90, as was formerly
e. The next was fictitious attendances. A Mas-
m Chancery had the power of issuing summonses
,ring parties before him, in taxing costs, but the
rt summons only was compulsory. By con-
scctlive attendances, however, the party was char ged
sits the Fees of the three first summonses, as if he
114.: been examined each time ; and not only was
taere a charge by the Master in Chancery for each
constructive attendance, but also by the Solicitor and
Six Clerks ; so that the party had in fact to pay three
sits of Fees for three several attendances which had
sever taken place. In one case, a Six Clerk had
rude a charge of 1297 constructive attendances.
did nut mean to eat imputation on the Masters
Chancery, bat he thought no Officer should be
need to regulate the Fees in which he was him-
if a participator. These welt two remedies which
in be applied ui this evili—one was by the Orders
use Court, and the other by an Act of the Legis.
ave. The Lord Chancellor and the Master of the
ills agreed with the Commissioners in the principle
their Report, but they differed as to the remedy
be applied. The Commissioners advised that the
sing bills of cost should be removed altogether'
4,he Masters in .Chancery, and vested in two
:ern appointed for the purpose, with fixed sale-
but without any profit, arising from their of
Lord Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls ad-
. that the Masters should still continue to tax bills
:on, but with a fixed salary for this particular
instead of the fees which they now receive.—
The only question for the House was, which of those
was the better calculated to remedy the griev-
, allowed on all hands to exist. The Commis-
sioners were entitled to the attention of Parliament,
and so were the opinions of the Law Officers imme-
connected with this Court. By the Bill he
about to introduce, the recommendation of the'
was adopted. One object of the Bill was to
Ipel those words which can be expressed by figures
• so written, and not allow them to be spun out
pnrpose of increasing the number of sheets.—
ter was to make a sheet consist of ninety instead
sty-two words. The present mode of examining
,ses was by Commissioners, two being appointed
.:h party. Those Commissioners, who were ge-
ly Solicitors, usually managed to haVe a num-
examinations to make in the same place, which
: did not lessen the expenses of their clients.
Bill vested in the Lord Chancellor the power of
twelve Banisters to act as Commissioners
such occasions, at a fixed rate of charge. It might
:ged that this Bill would go tc injure the Gentle-
.en who now derived profit from those fees, and
v:-.o accepted, or perhaps purchased, their situations
-:ier the impression of such fees being continued.—
, intention was to propose the parties should keve
compensation for the difference between the salary
given for this duty and the sums to which they
:Id lie entitled by the existing regulations—(Hear.)
the Honourable Member quoted the opinions of
llargravc and Mr. Justice Willes in support of
part of the Bill. The amount of this compensa-
might be regulased on ascertaining what the
:mess done by the Masters or Tax Clerks would
Ice, if the existing regulations were still in force.
Commissioners were of opinion that a moderate
duty on bills of costs would make good this
4Pensotion. He proposed that the salaries of the
'asters in Chancery should be £BOO a year each,
teh would make no more in the whole than £3,200
!Ir. The additional expense on the bills of costs
,P..1(1 be freely paid by the parties when they found
easselves relieved from the much greater charge of
Pmt system. He was the more anxious to press
14!' in order to shew those connected with the Admi-
'''ration of Justice in Ireland that the eyes of Par-
4a.7ent were upon them, and that it was intended to
1:ow this up by a series of measures for reforming
'e minor Courts of Justice in that country. Ile
u•, ..elitded by moving for leave to bring in a Bill for,
r"uLiziag Fees in the Court of Chancery in Ireland.
'Re SPEAKER having put the question,
1114 rd CARIi A MPTON was about to address the
"514se, when the Speaker asked the Noble Lord whe-
t'`; he meant to second the motion?
Lard„ CARHAMPfON replied in the negative.
"ir• NIAItTIN (of Galway) seconded the motion,
=ugh he would have preferred adopting the ?San
'cc'tmeaded by the Commissioners.

J.
II tOr4 erttßAlVirl#MN 'chap/Irma:l ist the prim-
' etple adopt`c! with regard to compensation.
Sir JOHN NAWPORT felt happy in being now
able to say that the'Commission appointed to inquire
into Courts of Justice, had been productive of the
Mnst beneficial effects. The labours of the Com-
•
missiopers had, indeed, been productive of the
most valuable results to the Public. They bad had
to contend with every thing which official prejudice
could suggest to thwart them, and every thing which
interest could put in practice against them. It might
be instructive to look at the different manners in
which the inquiry was conducted in the three King-
doms. The Address which he moved was carried
by one vote, on the 28th June, 1814, and the Com-
missioners were appointed in March, 1815: and he
was sorry to say that two Masters in Chancery were
appointed among the English Commissioners ler in-
quiry into abuses, many of which were alleged to
exist in the offices of the Masters in Chancery. Six
valuable Reports had been received from the Irish
Commissioners, and the results, which were of the
utmost importance to all who had at heart the due
administration of justice, were in possession of every
Member of the House. The Scotch Commissioners
had given in five Reports, containing in many parts
very useful suggestions ; and why these suggestions
had not been proceeded on,- it remained for his
Majesty's Ministers to account to the House, From
the English Commissioners, however, two Reports
had only been received in five years--(Hear, hear.)
The Right Honourable Baronet proceeded to detail
some of the reductions of expense which had been
effected, and complained of the unjust principle on
which the allowances to the different Officers had
been augmented, in consequence of which the Six
Clerks, who, in England, had not more than £3OO
per annum each, derived in Ireland from £4OO to up-
wards of £llOO per annum. It was evident that if
this enquiry had not been gone into, the doors of
justice would hare bete shut to a great part of the
public. He congratulated himself, thertfcre, on
having brought forward this subject, and he had to
thank the House for the support which they gave
him. To shew the enorneous nature of the fees in
the Court of Chancery, he might mention that in one
case the fees for docketing, enrolling, exemplifying,
and registering a decree, amounted to upwards of
£BOO. If compensation was afforded at all to the
various officers, it ought only to be for fees legally
established—sestablishtd by such a length of practice
at least, as to remove all suspicion bf the party re-
ceiving the compensation being himself accessary to
any addition to the fees. Officers ought not to de-
rive advantage from their own misinterpretation of
statutes to the injury of the public.
Mr. LESLIE FOSTER, as one of the Irish Com-
missioners, entered into a statement of several of the
reforms recommended by them. By the present Bill,
nearly one half of the time and money formerly spent
by suitors in the Court of Chancery would be saved.
With respeet to compensation to the various Officers
he had to observe, that many of the Officers of the
Irish Court of Chancery were purchasers of their
offices under existing laws for valuable considera-
tions, and if any thing ought to be the subject of
compensation, it struck him that these offices ought.
Scarcely any difference of opinion had existed be-
tween the Commissioners and the Lord Chancellor,
except on one subject. The Commissioners recom-
mended two additional Masters in Chancery for the
business of taxation alone, on the general principle
that Officers connected with the business of the Court
ought to have nothing to do with the taxation. The
Lord Chancellor, however, conceived that taxation
might be more beneficially entrusted to an Officer
previously acquainted with the history of the cause.
He still retained his former opinion, but he bowed to
superior authority ; and he hoped the House would
be disposed to receive the benefit as it was, standing,
as it did, on the recommendation of the Lord Chan-
cellor and the Commissioners, and wdold not endea-
vour to enter into the details of the business, with
which they could not grapple. The present Bill
would effect a greater improvement in the Court of
Chancery in Ireland than had ever, he believed, been
effected at one time in any Court of Justice.
Mr. V. BLAKE conceived that the House would
always respect vested rights. The Lord Chancellor
and Master of the Rolls in Ireland were against pre-
cipitating the Reform of the Court of Chancery, and
thought the effect of a similar measure in England
ought to be first seen.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD said, in despite of the
gloomy anticipations of the Honourable Gentleman
(Mr. Blake), he hoped the House would not postpone
the Bill. Were they to understand, that the Lord
Chancellor and Master of the Rolls in Ireland wished
the Bill to be postponed ? This Bill came before the
House with their recommendation, and it was known
that they were anxious the Bill should now be pro-
ceeded V. BLAKE explained.
Leave was they given to bring in the Bill.
IRISH coons' or EXCHEQUER.

Mr. C. GRANT then moved for leave to bring in
a Bill for the easier and better Administration of
Justice in the Court of Exchequer in Ireland.
After a few words from Sir JOHN NEWPORT and
,Mr. LESLIE FOSTER, leave was given.

sod the C
was ordete
lie Cl
elks, that.
tJ It !I
bti oat si
,riling
be ;onreni
juceil: In
intention tc
mince on l
aerial vie
Bred to a
ram' e that
in:o the sal
certain Res,
it might be
Nit% GRI
gonJay
• The CF
o,..vered
rie
aotice, th it
m.ll e itsel
with
tonoliJatie
C
Mr. GRI
W IC;Zjiat4
Loa, he h.l
Bi ttk was
pc,:nied to
cut,cery a
kaF been s
45 II
.0
had es
tp to 176'
greatly Inc:
per cent.
:3 state
yc,thatnl
taining 72
The
2r in Chan
to bring pa
fj67:11 SUR
smclive at
Stith the Fe
h 4.: been
taere a cha
construe ti
Six Clerks ;
sets of Fee
never take
made a cl
He did nut
in Chancer
allowed to
self a parti,
might be a
the Cool
hare. 11
Rolls ages
::their Re
o be appli
taxing bill
inna ,t,k e
Bficersap
ries, but w
The Lord
visel that I
of cost, by,
duty, inste
The only q
plans was
once, allov
sioners wer
and so wer
irately con
was about
latter was
compel tho
to be so wr
for the pnr
bother wi
cfseventy-t
*messes vi
each pa
rally Sol
'll7 of exam
however di
His Bill ye
appointing
ca ouch oci
be urged tl
men who
*to accept
the i
His intenti,
a compenc:
*.:begiven
vc.:ld lie es
ilt7e the F
Lord Ilarg
Cis part of
bats !nigh:
hitless d,
?mince, if
Da Corm
tamp dut]
t,ltapensat
"loners it
Ituth wou
'll.r.
tP..ld be 1
'emselyet
presen,
)1:: in ord
cratinn
4i.nent
0w this
minor
L.zellided
"!•4sliating
sp
Lord C
nous;
41,1 he in
Lord C
1\ Ir. NI:
1140gh hl
:;cctranea