Star.
London, England, 1817-03-01 00:00:00

SATWRDAY, MARCH 1, 1817.

and totally unable to realize any property. In the
case of Lord North, who was tang at the head of
affairs, it was the same ; instead of iniproving, hel
greatly injured his pi irate fortune by the medic set-
vice. In the case of another parm, for whose
memory he had the lii,best affection and respee.:and
I%a id' whose frieadship he was long honoured, the late
! Mr. Pitt, when it was rroposed to him to take a high
II public office, he was rapidly rising in 114 prole:lion.
i llis friendship, h•:wever, and iced him ( Lord Redes-
! dale) to remonstrate with that great mats on the oe-
casino. He represented to him the hroliianey of his
prolessional prospects, and the certainty there was,
1 by his emolinuance, of his realizing an independent
fortune. The answer was, that his advice came too
I late—the arrangements were made, and lie could not
retract. What was the consequence in the case of
Mr. Pitt ? He ruined his health iv. the anxious and
persevering discharge of his public duty—he died a
he. gar, and all they gave him was a public funeral.
Was it just, then, to Is Id out persons holding public
offices, to be thus o:sclesively taxed.cr to an invidious
altera.itivc? F..r many years he laboured himself in
public situations, anal the: Noble and Learned Lord
knew that he lost considerabi y by holding public offices-
A Noble and Learned Lora, not then in his place,
had held the nth ze of Chancellor for little more than
twelve months; before that time his profession il
1.1. etice was extensive and lucrative ; he of course
,:,ve it up; at the end of the term mentioned, the
office was taken from him, and he received an an-
nuity, which was but a very slight compensation for
what he had relingaitnled ; in fact it was not equal
to the one halt. lVhat pretence was there for calling
upon that -Noble Lsrd to diminish the inadequate
compensation which he so received ? Persons in the
situations to which he referred should not be held up
in such a way to the public. He could not ti id
words to express his repugnance at the idea. Why,
for instance, should the Noble and Learned Lord
hear him be called upon to pay an extraordinary tax
more than other individuals? His time and cautions
spent in the public service were very inadequately
paid for by the emoluments of his t.ffice. It was his
intention, with a view in the snoop, and rooted o'--
Action he entertained to the Ell, to move the amis-
.:ion of certain words in the clause. He was per-
suaded that, as a•-• voluntai y contribution, the obnoxi-
ous proviso would never produce any thing worth
the acceptance of the public. He should like to
know from the First Lord of the Treasury, what he
imagined Ouse contributions would ainuunt tn, or I
whether he thought it would he any thing month'
reckoning upon ? It may be o!ljected to bun tiint
the measure originated in ai;oticr House; but he
thought In reality it was produced by clamour. L-t
their Lordships seriously consider the possible consee
quenees of their yielding to clamour. For his part,
he regarded it generally PS the first stage of confisca-
tion. Let them Consider its progress and termination
in a neighbouring country. The progress of clamour
went on there till it involved the confiscation of half
the property of the country. In the case before them,
were the aurae taken literally, even the public funds
as ere liable. With a view, therefore, of doing away
those various objections, he. would move the omission
of those words, the continuatxe of which Ire could
not but deem as most•dangernusly obnoxious. The
Noble and Learned Lord then moved his proposed
omissions, by way of amendment..
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, with refer.
ence to what had fallen from his Noble and Learned
Friend, that in a fair and prnp,r consideration of the
measure before their Lordships, a due regard slinuld
be had to the extraordin iry circumstances under
which it was proposed. The principle of the measure,
however. had been repeatedly recognised and acted
upon in the course of the various wars whit., had
occurred from the period of the Revolution to clic
presens: In the Rebellion of 1745, particularly, a
measure of a similar nature was recurred to; and, iii
die subsequent war, which was c :fled the S,:ven
Years' War, money was raised by a tax laid siecifi
tally upon the proceeds of all pul:be offices. In two
distinct instances in the course of the late was, and
during the Administration of Mr. Pitt, voluntary
contributions were legalised in the saute way. The
measure so much complained of by his Ne.ole and
Learned Friend was therefore neither new in prin-
ciple our in practice. Under ordinary c.rcontstio,ces,
he would admit, that a great deal of what was urged
in the way of objection would have much weight.—
At the same time he must say, that in i xtraordinary
circumstances, a measure of the kind may be highly
beneficial and expedient; and farther, be had to ob-
serve, that it was no question with him, whether,
onder any interpretation of the words, the 44 Volun-
tary Contribution," designated in the clause, could
apply to the public funds. It was considered with
reference to the noble sacrifice made by an Illustrious
Personage, in giving up so much of his income from
the branch of the Civil List, which was particularly
applicable to the splendour of the Sovereign, that
many other classes of his Majesty's subjects, who
held situations of public emolument, should be afford-
' ed an opportunity of voluntarily, and according to
their individual discretion, of contributing a portion
of those emoluments towards the relief of the public
necessities. He could not think that the exercise rut
: the discretion of individuals could be liable to thce,e
sort of reflections which Iris Noble and Learned
Friend seemed to think. The seactifise made by ti.e
Illustrious Personage, when the various circumstances
of the case were considered, must be regarded as cf
I considerable magnitude, and proportionably 14'1(1411re;
land it was, therefore, in the view he had stated,
deetned expedient to legalize, in this way, the coa-
lti ibutions of public individuals to the service of the
State. The measure was not adopted so much with
a view to the pecuniary amount of its produce, but
rather with' a view to its being a clear manifestailoo
on the part of the Crown and the Executive Govet n.
went, of their feelings and inclinations with respee:
to the situation of the country. The chose in qu.e:-
i titan WAL, the Noble Led repeated, nsittisr in priti7

ciple nor in practice, new to the Parliament or the
Country, ow did he thMk the we sure ini its opera-
tion and effects liable to these objections which lii
Homes-able and Leona Friend supposed. He,
therefore, wool. vote 14 the Phi, as sent u, to their •
Lordships !root the other Noose.
Lord HOLLAND was anxious to say * few
words on the ptcsent occ tsim. He would sappoit
the amendment, but on grounds very.slifferent hors
those no whizli the N.ible an] Learned Lord urged
it.: Ile also regtrded the measure as foolish in some
points of view and mischievous in others. It was
not, he tuna contoi I, from useful and efficient puls-
tic offices that the country recpiircd any faer;t:Cell tol
',Defilade, hat front those which were evidetelr use-•
less, and in which nn public service was reriormee.
In the latter cases the people erpeeted the seoe•est
economy. In guard lases laid upon public orses
were a specks of delusion, as the dederctom was e!_
most always made op to the poucstirs in same w.y
or other. From those offices which elect little
services to the Scat—sack as many of those at-
tached to the Court—the public would 1•T•1ct the
mnst scrupulous econooy. Several of the C not
Offices might. he though', in tames Ike the pro sent,
be filled gratuitously, for which there was a so iking
precedent on an occasion when it was know.' that the
circurristances of the present Ruler ot the Country
were in a state of much embaerasse,eie. On that
occasion many of the soble and respect Isle persons
attached to his Royal Highness served in has Court
without salaries. Something of the kind I. ow, he
thought, should take place, and the holders if such
offices as he alluded to should fill them gratuitously,
until the revenue and the expenditure of the country
should be equal. The efficient offices, in many cases,
were far from being ov.rpaid, and in such cases. he
was of opinion the cr untry would rattier see the emo-
luments increased than diminished in any tepee!.
Considering the questi-n in these points of view, he
certainly could not appr•ore the Clause then under
consideration.

The question was then pot, when the CLAIM, as
originally proposed, was agreed to by the Comm; •
tee; and the I•huae .resuming, the JIM was report:4
without any amend:pent. •
Lord HOLLAND prerented rtveral Petitleae
from different Scotch Burghs, on the subject of Ecu.
norm and ntlornt, but mule especially praying for
the latter. w:lich wete ).% id, and, after atl (1^1!1
between Vi.count and the atm,
in, the way of explanation with ret.:itct ICI Otte w 1%3
of them. were e.t.a •re 4 to lie on t'le table.—A I-
joat otd till to-not row.
cr* CoNI3.ION:,
General THORN lON gave Lome NTom!ay nest he
should move for iteturos of :he Hins'auti.to of A•se.sineurs 14
tlie Assessed Taxes, io consequence he. Absence of Dermas
trattliing abroad, for the year. enlag un the sch Lowy,
tiiia, and 111t/._

The Barrack Deparrinent Bill was read a second time, and or-
dered to be coninnred on Monday.
Mr. SWAN presented a I'e Trion from the isihab,tatits of
Wylie, in the county of Wiles, m lavour of re .nooty, and praying
that the duties on Salt, Soap, Candles, L.-whet, and other articles
in common tete, he repealed.—Order...l to lie tnn the table.
Mr. CURWEN presented a Petition from tke pari,l3 of Ben.
thorpe in the county of Surrey, swing, (hit oat of 700
trots ieo received parochial relief, and praying for assistance.—
°Met ed to lie on toe table.

The Coffee Bill was read a served Cm; and ordered to b.
eonnurtted on Monday.

The liouse went utro a Committee on the London Cual Acts.
Report on Monday.

i he Conatic Ctderni.sioners am Mint throtagh a Committee.
Report on Moto!ay.

PETITIONS.

Lord COCHRANE presented a Petition for Re-
form Irhm the Inhabitants of Barwick, in the Col my
of Yolk. He thought that the number of Pettui:ns
winch loaded the t ible .ot the kl;,use, required, at
least, the set loos attention of Mintster, s—( Hear, hrar).
He wished that, instead of their present measures,
they would adept a different course, and endeavour
to conciliate the pettpk by the abolition of Sineemes
and of u.eh:ss Pensions. But they seemed deter-
nn tied not to retrench a single olE.r. They welki
not give up a single outwork to endanger the body
of the place. lie trusted that many taller Petitions,
of the same tendency as the one he held, would eon-
tome us come benne the House, to Clew the necessi.y
of turning out the present Ministry. -
The Petition WA, then brought up, read, ani tr-
dered to lie on ii 'able.

Lerd COCHRANE then presented anctf.” P. •i-
-tion, to the same effect, from the Parish of Sai
worth, in Ycirksl.ire.—Ordered to lit on tl.e
Lbrd COL: H RA NE have it. nice, :nit 1:lat he widd
bring on has motion fur the Abulition of t;itsisures,
but that he shouhl postpone it till it slionld have s..me
chance of :nieces:— (Lan4ter).
Mr. COKE (a: Nori,.lk). presented a Petition
(inns WilliAM At:inners, late Chief M4te of his
jest)'. Custom-ho•lse cutter the Hunter, and its crew,
stating, that they bred captured several vessels i.
1797, and though they had made Irequint applies.
none to t:le Agent for the Hunter to obtain their
Pria.-money, he had Away: referred them to t4s
Dutch Commissionets, who sent them back to the
Agent. They had, therefore, had no settlement of
their claims, though the eirpfurvs. had been mstie "0
)cars ago, and pr iyedfor relief from the House.

The.CHANCELLOI of the EXCHEQUER
had uo doubt that, on 'toper inquiry; it it appeare4
twat the Petitioners had not mistaken their case.
Lice would be dune thr•its. The Petition wits t:;ett
ordered to he on the table.
ANNY AND NAVY aItRUCTION BILL.
On this Motion of thc.CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the House went into a Committee
on the Army and Naty Seduction Bill. Thi Hoer*
having resumed. the Report was brought up. Ou
the eptection that it be riceivrd,
Sir F. fiURDErr complained that the present
measures were hurried in such a inaroter ibtotials
House. that no rune was whirred It r the espleraAtri
at the snowmn's of the Nation upon duns. We was
I,c.tule to any Bill of the kind.
Mr. CALCRAFT only aNwoved of the P;!?-, for

extending protection to the Regent, and preventing
the Seduction of the Soldiers.
Sir F. BURDETT also thought it proper that the
same protection should be extended to the person 01
the Prince Regent, as to that of the King ; but oiss
acted to the innovations which were made.
Lord FOLKSTONE thought that the leat that
could be said of the Bill was, that it was unnecesa'
sat y. All knew, that it any attempts had been made
to seduce the soldiery. they had failed. The present
measure would throw a slur upon them; for it would
make it appear, that they were so liable to be se-
duced, that it was necessary that a little flirtink with
them should be made punishable by law. He ap-
proved of the measure which applied to the safety of
the Prince Regent; but with respect to the others,
he lamented that we should think and act so diffe-
rently from our ancestors.
Lord ossuLsToN also objected to innovations,
and the fac,lity with %%Lich the powers demanded
might be abused.
Sir G. HEATHCOTE wished, that instead of
appearing so jealous with regard to what was said to
soldiers, mote should be entrusted tothe Civil Power.
He should only give his consent to the measure
which tended to place thz Prince Regent on the same
tooting as his Majesty.
The Report was then received, and the third read-
ing of the Bill fixed for Monday neat.
Irwin RY
Mr. H. ADDINGTON presented Returns of the
Yeomanry and Voluntea Corps in Great Britain.
He should take this opportunity of adverting to the
statement of the Honourable Member for Montgome-
ryshire (Mr. C. W. Wynne) the other night, in
which that Honourable Gentleman bad seemed to
convey an imputation against that branch of the Go-
ss vernMent to which lie (Mr. H. Addington) belonged,
that ft was not properly disposed to encourage the
Yeomanry of the country. He was the more sur-
prised, as he and his Noble Relation were known to
entertain the most exalted opinion of that villain.).
tional description of force; of the zeal, promptness,
alacrity, and public spirit with which they had at-
teaded the summons of the Civil Magistrates, and on
many occasions protected the peace of the country.
He had to state, that since the beginning of October,
every effort had been made by the Home &etc toy
of State to increase the Yeomanry in all parts of the
country, especially those where the spirit of distur;
bance prevailed.. He could appeal to several Hon.
Members of the House to whom applications had
been made on the.subject. For several months past
it had been. not only under consideration, but deter.
mined to revive part of the allowances which were
formerly made for that service. He had sorely re-
gretted their reduction at the time when public eco•
army had rendered it necessary. and he should be most
happy to use his best efforts to have them restored,
pC was convinced that on the Yeomanry. the commi.li
tntiooal forcelbf the country, its tranquillity might he
future depend.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE owned that orders had been
issued for the Yeomanry to hold themselves, ready for
service, either on the pillaging Act or constant duty,
but that was to be at their own expense. No means
were afforded them. He then alluded to the case at,
a friend of his who had raised an additional troop, in
one of the most disturbed towns, on a former occa-
sion, and Lad mad. an application to have three
years allowance in advance, but had met with a- re.
fusel, and bad consequently advanced the money
out'ot his own pocket. He conceived that the yeo-
manry would have more effect in maintaining order
that double the number of regular troops. He was
glad that the allowances were to be renewed, other-
ivies it would be impussible to keep that connita.
Waal force on foot. The encouragements to it had
already been greatly diminished by the Acts of last
Session, before which its members were ezempted
from the horse dutand the militia ballot.
(ot Norfolk) wished to guard against
dm too considerable increase of that force, though he
admitted that it was conuitutional., For forty yeas
be bad sot changed his opinions, and should carry
diem down to his grave. As the Representative of
a great ennui'', sad as a Naas who had nothing. to
demand from either one side or the other of the
Mouse, be should state his opinion that the Ministers
oldie country meant nothing but to establish despo-
tism in England, if they could acctimplish their in-
tentions.
Sir R. HERON thought the present allowances for
the yeomanry quite .nacient, when the state of the
finances of the countr was considered.
After a few words from Sir GILIZAT HgATUCOTII,
the-papers were ordered to lie on 'the table.
Sir SAMUEL. ROMILLY moved for returns of
the number of persons, with their different ages. coo.
finkd in the House of Correction since the 17th of

• .

May last. Agreed to.
Sir 8. ROMILLY then postponed the 2d readf
of the Game Duty Bill till Tuesday sennight.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented petitions
- for Reform from Loughborough. in Leicestershire,
Stirling and its vicinity, Buddiegton, in Nottingb
shire. and Kegeorth, in JLeienstersisire. Ordered• a
lie on the tab*.

LONDON MITION.
Sir JAMES SHAW said that be held a petition
which bad been agreed to this day in the Common
Council. He had not been able to attend that
meeting, but he was informed that it had been ,very
numerous. The language of the petition was respect-
ful and proper. It Payed that the measure for the
suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act sbouldnot lr •
passed, and also resnoostrated.egaiost the other mea
sores. Those had his concurrence—he thought that
circumstances rendered them netessary. But with
• regard to the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus, he
considered that it was uncalled for by the necessities
of the case. He then moved that ids, brought op.
Mr. CALVERT had not been able to attend this
day's meetingt hot agreed in all the-sentiments of the
petitioners. tie thought the present measures totally
uncalled for and unnecessary, depriving the people of
their jolt rights and and unwarranted by the
Report of the Secret Committee, or-what had fallen
Irani Mbsisters themselves.
Mr. CALCRA.Fr thought the speech of the He-
nritable Baronet be had preseated the peticios most
vilsaW. That Honourable Baronet bad seen tbe-
terr4gaesob which bad been the occasion of the Sus-
pension' Bill—le Ind been one of those by whom that
snob had been dispersed, and if the bessavideace had

been wanted before the Secret Committee, none
could have been better than that of the worthy Alder-
man. It war now the only one baffoie the House. He
ofcongratulated the City London on its having a
Representative who would thus come forwird, and
after having witnessed those mighty enterprises em
the Bank and Tower, would speak to their insignifi-
cance, and declate that it was unfit the constitutional
bulwark and shield of the liberties of the subject should
be suspended for one moment on their account.
Mr. P. MOORE congratulated the House on the
acquisition of evidence which superseded all the evi-
dence hitherto given. If Honourable Gentlemen
would abide by their own senses, and not by the ill-
founded Report of the Secret Committee, they would
come to the conclusion that that Report was a libel
on the country, and an attempt to impose evidence
upon them. He wished that every Member should
bi called upon in his place to declare what was the
state of the part of the country which he represented.
If this were not done, the country was condemned
unheard. If the House did its duty by its constitu-,
ents, it wobld set aside the Report. Most petitions_
demanded the restoration of the rights of which the
people had been deprived, but instead of doing that,
the House proceeded, as often as it met, to deprive
them of ocher rights. The Constitution rested on
two great pillars, property and liberty. The whole
property of the ctontry was now gone. It had been
taken in taxes and wasted in wars, for the nefarious
purpose of preventing reform. Now that the Mi-
nisterthad obtained all they could in point of money,
they wished to take away the liberties of the country.
It was a. foul conspiracy ag.tinst the people and the-
State, for the purpose of establishing despotism. Tips
question was, whether Englishmen were to reesl
freemen, or to become a nation of slaves?
Sir S. ROMILLY took the opportunity which
,this Petition presented, to rall upon the House to
consider how large a portion otitis Majesty's subjects
were prevented from expressing their alarm at the
measure proposed. And they were those who would
be most grievously affected, for the present 11111
would make the condition of the people in Scotland
still more miserable than that of the English. He
believed, and if he were wrong he'should wish to be'
set tight, that the Suspension Bill of 1791 made no
difference whatever between England and Scotland.,
He had no idea that a difference had been made un-
til the Bill had been printed. In England, by the
Bill as it now stood, if a man were committed to
ilison on a warrant signed by one Minister of State
or six Privy Councillors, he could not.be brought to
' trial without their consent. Ia &inland, any one
committed on a charge of high treason by any subor-
dinate Magistrate, even a Sheriff's substitute, must
'remain in confinement, without tiial, unless he ob-
tain the consent of six Privy Councillors. He did
not believe that the Honourable Members in that
House who represented Scotland, had any notion of
the manner in which. they were required to vote away
the liberties of their country.
Mr. M. A._TAYLOR said, that no argument
was advanced to refute those of his Honourable
and Learned Friend. Even the Lord Advocate
far Scotland bad not ventured to say that he was
wrong. He was anxious to know on what grounds
such a clause could be justified.
The LORD ADVOCATE of- SCOTLAND,
said, that it was competent for any Member .to pt
questions on the subject, but that he did not think I
himself bound to answer them until the Bill should
be regularly before the House.
Mr. BROUt;HAM agreed with the Learned
Lord that it was competent for any Honourable,
Gentleman to avail himself of the bringing up of
petitions to put a question ; but the House could int
longer hAve any doubt on the subject, for it was now
ascertained, by the first Law Officer in Scotland, that
high authority newly imported into the .House. But
it was a right which bad been pretty frequently ex-
ercised before; a right to which the country had
owed its relief from sonic of the worst measures
which the House had ever wrung from a reluctant
Government, and one to which, with the blessing of
GP, he trusted still greater imptovements to the
Constitution of the country would be due—(Near).'
—As to the reason why no answer was given to his
Learned Friend, it could easily be guessed.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL had understood
theFoble and Learned Lord to admit, that it- was
regular for Honourable Members to put questions,
but that as the Bill would soon be under the regular
consideration of the House, he thought it would at:
ford him a better opportunity for giving any ettpb.,
nation which be might have to submit. •
Mr. MADOCKS hoped, as a petition was am
presented from the City of London against the See- I
pension of the Habeas Corpus Act. and one had
yesterday been presented from Nottingham, that
time would be given for his Constituents to send a
Petition from Boston. Hg hoped time would be given
for the whole country to petitios. He hoped the
House would interpose to coripel Ministers to post-
pone the third reading for a week or ten days
(Near, hear)—to allow a fuller attendance of Mem-
bers, and to afford the other half of the House, now
absent, most of them probably in the country, to
attend ia'tbeir places, and report on the several dis-
tricts they reside in pr represent, as to the actual con-
dition of the people. as to the tendency of their sen-
timents, and. on the state and tranquillity of the
country—(Hear, hear).— He would wish also the
people themselves to state in their petitions their sen.'
tintents on this momentous period, and offer evidence
in their own favour, to meet the .heavy charges
against .them in the Report-4Am, hear). —Did
Ministers intend, and would the House stiffer the
measure to be precipitated in this manner, to prevent
the people from petitioning ? Would the House al-
low the people to petition oa a turnpike-rokd, that
leads to the county town, and prohibit them from
petitioning on a measure that leads to the county jail
—(Hear, hear ) —and that too on suspicion—(kisar.
hear.) Where is the road by which they are to retain?
Not through the avenues of justice, for they are
closed, and the trial by jury denied them. And
wbett ? Who can predict the duration of their du-
rano. 1 Who can fosse the numberless pretences
which the ingenuity .of tottering power may invent
for tits continuanee 1..-(Her,liear).—Tbe descent to
the duageoos in the Tower is easy and ceetain--the
return difficult and uncsetain-oi
---- M Fasph demmees
tirrefara Vides: serraiges meta ad sun.,
P bor. bo; goo est.
—(llseret. v).. The Hams* Member hoped his

constituents at Boston would hate Crap to peei:ion to
preserve this sacred hulw.trk of the people's riximr,
for which most Gentlemen expressed a superstitioni
veneration. The suspension of it would be the terror
of the innecent, wittunit being an adequate defence
against the guilty—(Hoer, hear).
General FERGUSSON also wished that time
should he allowed for petitioning.
The CHANCELLOR of the •EXCI-lEQUFR
read part of the Bill id Mk, to show that Cie Leese
relative to Scotland was not a new one, but had been
copied from it.
Sir S. ROMlLLYreminded the Right Hon. Gen.
tleman, that he begged to be cm reeled if Ile was
wrong. Dist the important question was not whether
the clause existed in the Bill of 1791 or not, but
whether any difference ought to be made between
the people of Scotland and of England ?
Mr. PONSONBY thought it desirable that the
Learned Lord should condescend to explain what the
Clause meant. It was imps-mat that the Hon. Grc-
tlemen who supported, should at least undeistand it.
Mr. B. BATHURST said, that whatever might
be the merits or demerits of the Clause, there was no
one present to answer for them, as it bad stood in
other bills shich had passed the scrutiny of as great
acuteness and talents as the House could now bgast.
The Petition was then read, and laid on the table.