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London, England, 1816-06-22 00:00:00

FOR COUGHS, HOARSENES4ES, *c.

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• OF Wats, JUNE•2O.
The fallowing IS 2 tinter statement of what Patted this
evening en the thita tradebrilf thetleilitol Small bebts Dili:
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM moved the third reading
of the 13ris•ol bts Bill.
Lord ELLE Nl3O ROLICI4 observed, that this was not usual
in thiirstaze of a Lill, to obj....ct to the principle of it, but that
not having noti t the motion for the second reading, he was
not to bisme toritecidemally acceding to It t but he felt ttrorg
olsjectlons to all such gills: they tut-re devlationf fr cm :he uni-
ft•rat course which ought to he pursued in the administration of.
justsce. The Court udsto be colopOsed of tradetic resident
its Bristol; tl.ey Would be both fdrlies and ; 'hey would,
..s Commissioners, retain all their pttjatlces as tr.t•!c-s:.:,u; [hitt
were nuMber:ess instances of this. tie ntetstionea one which

same within his town knowledge: a taller had scut a coat to a
Gentleman who had bespoke one, but it war objected that it
was so small that it was quite useless ; the judges u!i •erved, that
it would be very hard upon the tradesman to lose int emit and
his Ulmer, and the parties must therefure spli• tt c dift•renee.
'She administratiou of justice ought nut to lie 1:1 such bawls. But
thew iu the City of Litistol, a Court called the toz I Court,
.ieslilela„,eceos by this rules of the ccutnion law at.i.l iris b 1
bi
jurf. Phis Court has been held from time intnienaorlattil ip.
pairs by tbe use of compurgators at this time i it affords every
advantage which can be reasonably desired. What reason, there-
fore, is there for euperseding this ancient and wetul Court I
They complain that hey C2ll try the'r causes but cosi• alre.at at
the annual .•.ssiz:s, but the Toizey Court sit; every week: as to
the parishes in the adjoining cuutitles, Ili, y have the usual tense
• diet to 40s. and they have not al far to go as in many other ceun-
• ties. Tli..! er_mption (tam stamps is auother objectiou : why ,Ire
there CoUrte to be exempted? If the proceeding. of ail Courts
li are to be exempted, be it :A; but Gavel nment must bad other
taxes equivalent. If a remedy be wenttel for the recovery of
11111 A I dcht% let it be applied generally to ail the cousuy. Tao
•urisdictiun of the Sher.ffs in she several counties may be est.
arid -A, as v. was by ape. old Olt of Jsutiri.u. the Petitioner*
tth`ay thimselves be mistaken as tgielseremetly they seek there
is no truth in the grievance they iuruplain of; they have no
grievance
L.urd GanvILLE observed, that the distanc. from the As.
,iire tutvila was the ()seas:int of such Courts at Manchester and
~,..vr places it, the Ninth. I.hat the Tolzey Court was coetintil
to the Inuits tot the City of Bristol; and that he had been in.
tisrnied, that the expense ef trying a cause In that Court was
, from eight to ten pounds, and, ilierefuie, tie question was be-.
tween Justice and no jiasnee. It is extremely desirable thattheso
wa, saute universal remedy fur small debts; but this was no
reason why, in the mem time, relief should taut be give.; to the
people of bristol; and if there were a &aural remedy provided,

. .
..:1 :nor local courts would be done away. There wain° reason
eny to Bristul the alvat►:age which other places had rec.:wed,
n►or eve-cit.:4 one ►u tie oeislitiouthood, at Bath, and the in-
habitau.s were all desirous of it. _ _ _

Lyrd S I.ANHOPE admitted that a gourd! remedy could be de-
vised fur the recovery of small debts; out in this ruse the quet.
don was, what was the proper remedy, the remedy by which,
justice may be properly and .inpartially admMistered? and.this
de was as allXlOlift to obtain as the Petitioners themselves; :but
this could only be by some modification of the tnal hy4ttry.
The Pennant's state, in their preamble, that they are obliged to .
wait to try that causes at the 11111114 s;ftsi4es at Bristol; but this
was disproved by their own witness. I asked Lim nv self, " Is
it true that the inhabitants have 11,1 other Cow t tor the trial
of causes but tliu annual Assizes i" lie answers,l, " They may
certainly try thent at the o:zey Court."—`• W bat, to any
amount r—" Yes; there is no Iniiitation." Their preamtils is
therefore disi roved by themSels es. Chey 41a.e what city
Wait try the i a snsfon of toe Csett ; and 47
of. business is drawn into ft, tt.e fete may be reduced. 'nit re
ace g.-cat lac:lines in this C. -•in.: for small sums there might
perhaps be jitnes ut niter p.:l-:onr only.
The 1.041) Chir'ANCl.l.l..)l4, said he would not encourage
"nth Bids. some pucka restudy might possibly be proeiticrli
but after all the amendments in this Brit, a proper distil:ninon of
law and equity would not be attained by it. 'I h. Mayor and.
Aldermen of lirkuishad nu other spiaAcation ut judger than as
bang-. Mayer rued Akienuen. He sad not Itite tht proposal for
such ilaating Judges ; arid as to their Assessor, a Barrister of six .
years sianding, it could DOI be supposed that sacli .t person was
capable ut &ceding properly upon all cases of law and equity
that might uicur. Ana assthe till now stood, balances under
xi 5 might bt Mg in question sums to any amount. lie said he
did L11A.11101611 to oiside the House, but it it were put to thiV9EC
Le would du Ins ditty.
After s:Neral Amendments the Bill was sent ba:k to the,
Cumulous.
JUNE 21.
The American Mint Machimry Bill, the Irish Public Debt
Bill,the Oxymuriated Lime Bill, the Irish Customs add Escise
Bill, the Stage Coach Regulation hill, the 'Metropolis Paving Lin,
and some other Bills, were brought up* from the Rouse of COM.
Molla. by Mr. Losuratizon, Mr. M. A. Tatum', and other
Members, and read a first time.
The Bari of LAUDERDALE presented a Petition from, per.
sons concerned in the Whale fishery, against the Gas Ligh: Bill,
who were ordered to be heard by Counsel, on Moalay, against
the second reading of the WI.
'the Customs Widows Fund Bill, and the Soldiers and Seamen
Trades Bill, were read third time and passed.
Mr. itfliNsoN, from the ()Mee of Chief Secretary for Irelhnd,
pr.stoted Papers respecting Bank Tokens, site. win, it were or.
dersd to lie on the table.

The Saver Coinage Bill was read a third time and pr.tsod,
aftcr a kw words front the Earl of LAIJDrAtbALL, tolije.alllg to
the princirlc, of the tutasure, but de‘lit,ing to take up the: :Mu: a
the Houle.

The Relined Sugar Bill, the Rape Seed and Cole Seed Bill, crd
the Irish Paper BiII,- through Committees, add were re.
ported without arnemlnacut. .
Oa the motion of the Marquis of LANsoown, the limne
reso'ored itself into a Ccinunittee on the Irish Gratid Jury duds:;.
merit Bid.

'lle Earl of DONOUGHMORE intimated his intention' of
moving anitndinents on the third reading. Ilia Lurilsilly objgctrd
to the ccufining Grand Juries to receiving only tv:.
deuce, as there was riot sufficieut time allowed t'acial to 4eil
throufb the tusiness, which they bad to transact, and if tile/
were not pet-meted to rely upon the depositions taken befor.! the
Magistrates, it was impossible they could get tbroue,li ilie crimi-
nal business within the period allotted to it. It would besides
be very difficult to induce the lower Irish to attend as witnesses
before a Graud Jury.
'the Ma: ois of LANSDOWN urged the importance of Grand
Juries deciding upon viva were evidence, and els: Teed, that by
the dill, in order to obviate objection, a power was given to the
Judges to send the depositions in any case in which they should
think fit to a Grand Jury. An arrangement was also miskina to
withdraw front the Grand Juries a great part of the Civil busi-
ness which at present pressed upon them, arkd he inuferstood it
was intended to iutimate to the Judges to al ow more time at
the Assizes.
The Earl of DONOUCFIMORR was still of opinion that the
objection wai not dime away, as the Judges could not decide,
amidst the mass of deponti.ite before them, in what cases it
would he fitting to send the depositions to the brand Jury.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL' said, it bad become a cousideration
of importance to assimilate as ►ar as vossible the law of Ireland
to that of England, in consequence of which this Bill had been
framed; and in order to obviate any objection arising irom the
practice in Ireland, the clause was introduced, pessuitting, minis
the application of the Grand Jury, the depositions in any case to
be communicated to them by order of the Court. It walaho
intended to male another arrangement respecting great part of
the Civil business that now occupied the attention ot• the Grand
Juries in Ireland, and .to take care that there should be nose
time allowed at the 4ssiaes.
The Earl of DONOUOIO4OItE could not sec in what irony
the Judges could 'wake` a distinction as to cues in which tag
AFpodtiona ought robe comminiented to the Grand juries, and

.....•

_

N ought the Jaigea of Ireland ought to have been consulted upon
as subject.
The Fart of LIVRR POOL WI, K. intagirrl It to be nes* a
Natter of mule U the Graud Jury applied fur the
le any case, for The Clore to order then to be manilla tett
The karl of DONOUGHMORE* still thought the Jokes
altibt to have been consulted on the measure..
The Bill passed through the Cenunittee with, a verhal
sates dheeet gloved by the Marquis of Lamsoourts.soateport to
CATHOLICS OF IRELAND.

- - -
The Earl of DONOUGHMORE, previous to
bringing forward his mdtion, presented. a Petition
from certain of the Protestant Nobility, Gentry,
Clergy, and Freeholders of the county of Galway, in
favour df the Cat!rile Claims, which 'his Lordship
stated to be most respectably signed.
• The Petition was read, and ordered to lie cid the
' Table.

The Earl of DONOUGHMORE the rose to
propose his motion. His Lordship laid, that previ-
Otis to entering into the subject.. he thought it right',
to anticipate an Objection that might be Made on the'
Other side ea to this, subject being brought forward
at the conclusion of the Session : ti which hohaii t^
answer, that he did not intend to press upon liteir
Lordships :my substantive consideration of the Claime
of the Catholics of Ireland in the present Bestial);
his motion merely going to declare the fitness nittl,
expediency of entering upon the considera.ion of the
soblett at in early period hi the neat Session. His
Lordship bete read the Motion With Which he in-
truded to conclude, and onserted, that he 40014 Pot
ilittjcipitte any difference of Wilda alto the Welts-
thrita of Oe motion. Had not the great COMM so
which we had been engaged been brought to a glo.
rlous and satisfactory termination ?
.Was not this
country, at the present moment iii eoasequenet, in a
higher and prouder Sintation thgli at. int former
petiod ? Had not the blood df all, without distinc-
tion of religious communion. that hadheen shed in the
ifiritin.. actitAS that hid accoMpahled dal contest.
lei ultimately to its &Tibbs termination. and to the
piecing this country in that high and pre-eminent
sintation in which she now stood ? Was it not 0..:i,
siting and expedient, and called for by motives of
tie soundest policy, and of the best tegard to the
real interests of the Country to unite all its inhabi-
tants, thus equally deserving, in one bond of bro-
therly affectio:t, by making them participators of
eitualpricilagei and equal rights ? he could not but
donsifrigr the claims of the Catholics to these pill-
lees. Its a claim of right and justice; and though
der came to their Lordships' lid; humbly imploring
the mercy df their Lordships, he could not. but con-
cier
s;. them as entitled to right, as well as in every view
of sound polio), and juaice, to the privileges they
claimed. If an individual were aggrieved by op-
pressi,M, for which he had no ordinary rcaledy,
would nut Parliament fulfil its duty and interfere.

and WAS it not a still greater and more imperative
duty
_to interfere in behalf of a numerous class of
his Majesty's subjects, grievously oppreued by no-
jam restrictions, aiul by exclusion from those milli.
leges to which as subjects they were entitled ? A
Noble Earl on the Treasury Bench had formerly
thought it necessary to protest against its being con.
sidered as his opinion, that no relaxation of the exist-
ing system towards the Catholics ought ever to tale
place; and had asserted that, on the contrary, he
could conceive cases in which such :Placation would
be seasonal& add necessary. It would be very sail-
factory if, previous to the inquiry into the subject,
the Noble Earl would favour the,' Hoes. with his
particular sentiments oa the subject. It would be
clsatisfactory to their Lordships, If the Noble
would state with precisioo, what were the eases
in which he conceived that to place the Catholics on
a keel with their fellow sobjects, would be not only
seasonable but accessary: He bad the greatest re-
spect for the Noble Ewa, and was persuaded that in
-his conduct on this question-, be had been actuated
by the purest motives, of whaling conceived to be his
Image of duty. It would be most valuable, therefore,
taknow what were the circumstances which, in the
Duple Earl's opinion, would warrant or would re-
guise asr alteratian in the present system, and what
woe &ailment to which the Noble Earl thought that
alreratioa might, under such circumstances, be car-
ried. I& had no doubt-that the Noble Earl was dis-
posed at once to pot the Catholics of Great Britain
on a footing with the Catholics of Ireland. It was
impassible to imagine a more deserving and respec-
table body of men than the former. And the only
reason that occurred to him for the Noble Earl's not
at once making that proposition was, that he meant
to take the subject up as a Statesman ought, and to
propose the revision of the whole code of laws affect-
ing the Citholics Subjects of the Empire, specifying
how far he would go, and where he mould limit
himself. He really trusted that the subject of the
Cath->lic claims would soon be out of his bands. He
trusted chat it would be taken up by his Majesty's
Government. It was too serious& matter to be ban-
died about as a question of party. It had never been
so treated on his side of the House. It had also re-
ceived the support of many respectable Members of
hit blajesre't-Goyeranseou He. heartily wished tbat.,
some of them would adopt it, and alter a full consi-
deeetion bring it before their Lordships; Of course
they would have every suggestion and assistance that
could be afforded by the Noble Lords on his side of
tie Howe. The great and substantial objection to
the proposition, which arose from the adverse semi--
mews telt in a certain high quarter, could not bins-
panted now to operate. And with respect so the ols-
jectsons which had formerly been grounded on the
fate of Europe, and on the temper of the Catholic
mind, they could no longer have any force. The
state of Europe at present was such as to give ir.
resistible force to the arguments, for taking the
&object into full consideration, and to the hope,
that that consideration would be attended with
sucoass. And as to the Catholic mind, the Peti-
tioas before the House sufficiently attested the mo-
deration of its temper. They were couched in the
Most respectful language. They Shortly stated,
that the Petitioners were deprived of the Constitu-
&mai privileges enjoyed by their fellow-subjects, and
prayed to be admitted to a participation of them.—
Ile allowed that some - - bad been made by

, speicbes
certain Catholics, in Ireland, and that a Paper bad
been published by them, the tendency of which was
highly injurious to the Catholic cause. The intem-
pers4 ee of those individuals had driven from the
Cdt‘olie Meeting, Lord Fingal, and many of the
siust respectable Catholics; who had found it DECO•

%

. .
..-• . . . .
• ••• •- . ae#4* -Ili ' 'tit, -
'cry to Sensate 4 tilliesiva. ,-6fizier--wharvo_ if • .ko ow rectal' tritHiquillity laid happia
**km 'Weil' of the &kith Empire. *, The Noble Earl con.'
If the Pape to fro be' abided, tbo
Hansa aectedWseet bad a fight to easittatte The alddisd bi niovidg—ge That the House should, early
il pee sons front whoM it tuteiseled, had directed their in the next Sessitin of Parliament, take into tons!
.e.
I eitulence against some of their best frieds add sop- ration. the. propriety of removing the. Civil Disabilities
I'ren. They had proceedettth the nest disgrace- which
.still.c.oritiale to press on his Majesty's loyal
ul acts. they hid stigmatised the. Iralt Govern- Catholic subects."
ment, the judges, and the Juries, only &cause they Lord LONGFORD :aid, the subject had been so
'all concurred in hunting oat the mordent.s of as re. often discussed, that he should lei va contented him-
spectable a Gentleman as eve' &wed in sty country.
sell with a simple vote, but for same arguments
The principal author, however, who was a disgrace which the Noble Earl had brought forward, and
to the learned profession to which he belt:aged, was which had placed the subject in a new point of view.
now where he ought to be, in safe custody, Was it
The object of the motion
i was to o litain a pledge
necessary for him to go over again the catalogue of from this House to enter into enquiriesin respect to
the dilabilities under which the Catholics laboured i the disabilities complained of. The pledge was of in
'They complained of being excluded from the most much consequence, that it was necessary the House
important functions of the State; they wished to .be
should not give it. But did not ti:e Noble Earl forget
told for what crime they were so excluded ; thee
that the giving of a pledge was ',early tantotemint
asked what they had done to subject them to such thee'
that
an assurance that the disabilities should at some
removed _.. respect to the Pe-
punishment I All he desired on their, part was in. future period be . ; I/i ith
quiry—all he desired was, that their petitions should titions upon which the motion seas now made, they
be fairly and fully considered by Parliament. That consisted of three ; First, that which might be called
this ought to be done at soma time or other, he did Lord Trimlestown's body of Petitioners. Secondly,
not believe that there was a single individual who that coming from the Clergy ; and thirdly, one corn-
would deny; he did not believe that there ever had ing from that part of the Catholic Body differing ih
been an individual disposed to deny it, with the ex• their views from the other two. The Noble Lord
option of a certain Doctor of Civil Low, now no i commented on the conduct of the Petitioners, and
more, who when living seemed to take a peculiar asked whether their conduct was of such a nature as
pleasure in talking of the pains and penalties to which to justify their hopes of having their demands con.
the Catholics were, and in his opinion ought to re- ceded ? With respect to the Clergy's Petition, they
main, subject. It had been conctiveJ by some per. seemed to be completely absorbed an requiring for
sons, that because all the Catholics of Ireland had their Sody particular privileges. and to have forgotten
;not signed one and the same Pe icicle, there were the Veto altogether, He concluded with opposing the
great differences of opinion among them. There. Resolution.
might be se; but all that he soul t say was, that he' The Earl of ABERDEEN ceuceived.. that when
did not know it. In the Petitions they all concurred Petitions presented to their Lordships were couched
in complaining of the heavy disabilities wader which in proper and moderate terms, it was unsuitable to
the laboured, and prayed to be restored to their their Lordships' dignity not to neat them with the
rank in the State... It watteue that. the Petition from t
utmost respect. The Petitions of the Catholics coming
the Catholic Body at large stated nothing on the within that description, and relating to a question so
subject of securities. But it could not on that account highly interesting and important to the whole Em-
be tonsidered as contradictory to any Petition, that pire, ought to receive from their Lordships the ful-
asking a restoration of rights, stated the terms (let lest and most attentive consideration. The Noble
them be what they might) on which they conceived Earl who had just sat down, seemed to consider the
these tights ?night be restored.. In the Petition which' motion as a proposed pledge on the part of their
was agreed to at Lord Trinilestown's house, the Lordships to one another—as if they could not trust
grievances of the Catholics were stated, the restore. to themselves without it. It was not so. Whoever
lion of their privileges was prayed, a readiness was voted for the consideration of the subject, in the next
expreised to agree to such regulations as might not i Session of Parliament, was of course ready to take
be inconsistent with the discipline and practice of the subject into consideration at the present moment,
their religion, and aft opinion was given that an ar. were it not for the state of the Session. The pledge
rangement might be formed, satisfactory to all par- therefore was not to one another, but it was to the
ties. In the Petition from the Catholic Clergy, so petitioners. This, however, the 1::t;lt; Earl would
far froth negativing the offer of seem ites, a specific I per naps consider as gocd for nr.thi. Certainly it
security, called by the Petitioners " domestic nomi.• was not of value to the Petitioners equal to
nation," was pointed out. At the same time the that of granting tlitir requests; but next to granteig
Petitioners declared that they must rejects as contrary their requests, the assunince that their Lordships
I
to the principles of their religion, and as inadmissahle would take those requests into consideration, must
with reference to their conscientious scruples, that he to the petitioners •th: most satisfactory pro
species of security which had been so much talked of ceeding.—(Thar.) It would be a most valuable
under the name of Veto, or in other words, a power concession on the part of their Lordships, and one
to be possessed by the Crown of negativing the ap. which it would well become them to give. He
pointments of the Catholic Bishops. This was an thought the Petitions of the Catholics and all Peti-
abstraet of the contents of the three Petitions. Ai: , [ions cn Religious subjects, had nu particular claims
agreed in their statement of grievances, and their to attere!un more than any other, for it was the glory
prayer for redress. One, that from the great body of or thit, country that every individual of every class
Catholics, WAS silent on the subject of securities, but it.: ' a tight to state his case to the Government....
was not to be considered on that account es rejecting Religions opinions had been pretty frequ qtly consi.
411. Another, that from Lord Triinlestoa Ws, ex der"f as the best criterion of political plineiples and
pressed a readiness to eoneent to securities, :ruin political conduct, an .:pinion with which lie was not
conviction that a satisfactory arrangement might be much disposed to quarrel, when he remembered how
formed. The third, that from the Catholic Clergy, much the bigotry and religious tenets of Catholics
although it rejected the Pete, yet spontaneously had formerly influenced their proceedings. He, how-
pointed out is specific security—domestic nomination. ever, thought a very great change had taken place
On the subject of securities,, his (Lord Donsugh• in the Catholic mind, which he considered their Lord-
tame's) opinion was too well known to render it ne. ships were called to attend to. In all the discussions
cessary to repeat it: So far back as the year 1793, which kid taken place on this subject, he had listened
he was perfectly satisfied that the Catholics had given with all the attention he possibly could, but lie never
all the security that ought to be expected from them distinctly remembered one solid objection against
in the inlentn oath by which they were bound. In his their claims being considered. Probably it arose
opinion it was ottt of thefr power to give a stronger flout a defect of intellect ; but he must again repeat,
security. He had asked nothing further, and on that be saw no formidable objection, although he had
he had been prepared to give them all the privileges heard enough of formidable language—(Hear, hear.)
for which they asked. Such was his opinion; but He had heard the usual cry of the Church being in
sooh had not been the opinion of many highly re. danger, but he was at a loss to perceive in whit re-
spectable individuals, and such had not been the opi- spects. Surely no man of the least understanding
nion of the majority of both Houses of Parliament. could entertain any rational idea of the Catholics
I With a laudable view to conciliate those who making proselytes. The fact was, the danger emitted
thought that some additional security was necessary, in remaining as they now were. To go back to re-
the security of what was called " domestic nomina. new their disabilities they had already repelled, was
tion," was now offered by the Catholic Clergy. The what nO man could dream of, for in truth it was ime
offer was this. The Catholic Bishops and Clergy possible. No period could arrive more favourable to
proposed—having no doubt of' obtaining the consent the cause than the present, when we were at peace
of the Spiritual Head of the Catholic Church to the a ith the whole world, alter a most sanguinary con.
proposition—that that head of the Catholic Church flict. The mind of the Catholics was also in a pro.'
should bind himself to confer his spiritual benediction per state for the consideration of their case. 'The'
on whatever person the Catholic Clergy of Ireland leading Power of Europe had admitted persons of all
might elect as a Bishop ; and they proposed that a religious persuasions to a share in their Councils, and
new oath should- be administered by the electors, by in the offices of Government, and he trusted that this
which they should bind themselves not to elect any country would chew that we were no longer marked
individual of whose loyalty they Were not assured. with illiberalitr. It had been said that foreign policy
Surely this proposition would remove all objections. would not do in this country. This he admitted, but
To him it appeared open to no doubt or cavil. Of he thought it was a cruel satire on the Constitution,
the Catholic Clergy as a body all persons spoke with to say that liberality of sentiment, purely because it
the highest respect. He defied any one to state that was adopted by foreigners, was not congenial to the
during the late long war a single attempt had been Government. With respect to the Scotch Catholics,'
made by any Catholic Clergyman in Ireland to Ins, ho assured their Lordships they were labouring under
tient discontent or rebellion. On the ciarittfry, tieere'leardeltips of the Mir e4lling nature.' 'ln illustiation'
were numerous instances of the interposition of the of this, he referred to the case of a Catholic Clergy.,
Catholic Ougy of Ireland in support of the laws. Man, tried last summer in Scotland for marrying two
He did therefore most strongly recommend, that. persons.. He was tried on an Act of Charles 11.
whenever the subject should be taken into considers: which punishes with transportation for life, and death
,tion by their Lordships, or when it should previously in case of return from transportation, any Catholic
be taken into consideration, uhe trusted it might be, Clergyman convicted of marrying any parties. The
by his Majesty's Government, the domestic nominee charge being not proved, lie of course escaped. He
n tio should bvadopted.as calculated to be satisfactory (Lord Aberdeen) mentioned this as a proof of the
to all panics—as calcUlated on the one band to remove miserable state of the Scratch Catholics. He deci.
the apprehensions entertained by those who bad hi, dedly thought the Petition worthy of attention, as he
therte opposed the concessions to the Catholics, and on was totally at a loss to see any good policy in keep.
the other, unlike the Ildo, not to raise the religious ing them down. Much bad been done fur our caun.
and conscientious scruplei of the Catholics themselves. try by Catholic bravery, and it was extremely unjust
Under the circumstances Which he had described, he to withhold from them a share in the privileges of
really hoped that this would be considered a favour. that happy Constitution for which much of their
able moment to set this question for ever at rest. He blood had been shed. He concluded by supporting
trusted that the Noble Earl on the bench opposite the bintien
would press forward on this subject. Adverting-to Earl BATHUR,ST could not agree to the motion.
the Union, and to the circumstances attendant upon lie was astonished to hear their Lordships called on
it, he (Lord Donoughtnore) expreised hiiiegreishat at this late period of the Session, to bind themselves,
the means which bad been used to reconcile the par. as well as many of their friends who were abient, to
ties interested to that measure, bad not been further the temsklemtion of so important a subject. During
extended to the porpose of procuring an acquiescence the former discussions on this question, its fricuds,had
in the claims of the Casbolics. Their Lordships Obi regretted that the time for taking irsinto consi.
might then have seen among them the Earl of Fingal. *rata* was unfavourable. He certainly thought
and other excellent amid enhghtined N(11)4111en 0114 file present to be unfavoura ble, and be would ask,
Sister Country, assisting, by them" advent. to can, why bad therein& of Emancipation, as it was called,
into abet such ;matures as might be atkolattit not brought it 02 earlier in the Sessigp t It could not
1

tweitaitotclolenvenience ;et'-
, ., .. - , • . the
___„. • •
arise (rail incuserente to question re-
. ~. Al,
tlity of granting any inch pledge was ob ' "b
the possibility of many of their Lordships !tom
I'KM: fro.
their opinions during the reuse, and the unple
situation in which they would then stand, gl' „.
any pledge was given, he thought their Lenin::
Ishvensullod
do. Great taondoetholiet
I vrere eifivd
ec°thuenLy
arisen Tram such pledges being given, W. ;t1
.lont it*
nature being fully known ; and was it reasnnabk ave
it c‘-esietent in their Lordships, to go on giving 'Nisi
pledges, notwithstanding that tipetience r 'j
sequence would obviously be, the caching of kits
expectations in the Catholics, and the danger. '0;-
much confusing were these expectations frustrated.
rite question h id been repeatedly discussed year abet
year, both in a time of war and re time • , 7
e of peace: i
• It
had been debated both as a patty question, and liei ;
as a party question; and he recollected well their
Lordships iiad, contrary to their established custom,.
adjourned the debates on it, to give more %ppm:
nity of cling its merits. Would their Laadshiei
think that the speeches delivered on these oeeatio'n
were totally unpremeditated, and that no attent;cr:
was paid to the subject, either before or after iii.
Tering them ! He decidedly disapproved of or,
into any Committee, because a Fope of obtain'
e
full concession was excited, of which there was eret;
probability of its being frustrated. He thought alp
the Veto should be adhered to. He knew that ea
this stibject a variety of opinions existed, brake taw
no propriety in giving any concession if this geniis
adcrded to. His Lordship then entered into a detail
of the proceedings of the Clergy in Irelind, sa,l
argued, that while they considered their Centel to
he independent of the British Crown, it was imps;
Bible to accede to their wishes. He did not see how ;
the House could give any such pledge as tl:at *bids
they were now called to do, and on that grof.:nd Le
opposed the motion.
The Dukeof SUSSEX, convinced as hehad always
been, that the present question was of the first impor-
tance to the interests of the British nation, he had
heard no argument this evening to dissuade him froth
voting in support of his Noble Friend's motion. Pe.
titions bad been presented in a respectable and con. '
stitutional manner to their Lordships, which, from i
the lateness of the Session, they were prevented from
considering ; and the question they had now to discusi
with what was the most prudent mode they could
possibly adopt ? The Resolution proposed by his
Noble Friend went no farther then merely calling on
their Lordships to declare they would consider the
case of the petitioners nest Session. if their Lord.
ships would at °tree say that they would hear nu pe- j
titions, then their conduct in givi .g no promise would
be right ; but if it be the birth-right of lititt:h 1131). 1
jeCts to petitioa, then certainly the conduct which he
and his Friends adopted, in ceiling on theii Lind.
! ships to pay some attention to the petitions next Sts.
, sion, was consistent. The able speech of the Noble
ILorel opposite to him (Lord Aberdeen) in reply to
the second speeker, precluded the necessity of his
r making any remarks on that speech. It had been
said, the. I discussion of that subject would occasion
much tram:bless to the Magistracy of Ireland. Re.
ligious disputes had been long known to be the cause'
of much dissention, and even of crime, in that coun-
try. Differences of religious tenets had even shiel-
ded murder itself from punishment ;—a particular
proof of which lately happened in a case of mute.
der, where the Jury returned merely a verdict
.of Manslaughter. He put it to their Lordships,
whether, in this enlightened age, those outposts
which the exigencies of for mer ages had probably
called for, should still be allowed to exist, whether in
fact they were not disposed toadopt such a proceeding
as would conciliate the .afFeetions of all patties !
His opinion had always'been, and now was, that this
was a question solely to be legislated by Parliament.'
It was their duty to legislate with justice and imon;
tiality, and if the parties refused to receive the boon
which their Lordships might give them, with them,
not with the House lay the blame. By a decisive
vote their Lordships had adopted an Mien Bill;
which severe as it would be on all Aliens, would per.
titularly be se on the foreign Catholic. He was the
more anxious to have this subject discussed when he
considered the unjust distinction it made in the• re-
wards conferred by our country on those ):ernes vel,O
had fought her battles. He specified the case of
Count Nugent, who had lately been rewarded bf
being appointed one, of the Makin Commanders cf
the Both, in consequence Of his gallant deeds in arms.
But lie had received that distinction as a foreigner,
nut as a British subject, in consequence of his being
a Lieutenant-General in a foreign regiment. Had
he resided in this country it was impossible, in the
present state of things, he could have got it. iit
would ask their Lordships, was it possible to suppose
die Irish would not feel the severe mortification of
seeing themselves excluded from the cnjarment
of their hard won honours, merely on the ground
of their. religiests opinions ?—(h'ear, hear, bear.)-'
And was it consistent with tneir Lordships well.
known attention to the defenders of our country to
sanction by the countenance of the present disabili-
tios, such a distinction r Tire case' of the Tdiplith'
Catholics had, on a former night, been stated with
co Much.eloquence and ability, by his much esteemed
Noble Friend (Earl (ttcy), that he should feel he was
weakening the cause, did he attempt to add any --
thieg to that luminous speech. But lie besought the
Nable Earl at the head of tl:e Executive Government
to recoliect that the objections he had formerly stated
no longer existed. The country was now in a state
of profound peace, and the spiritual head of the
Catholic Church was no longer under the controul of
that individual who had been removed from the Cone
tinent -41:ear, hrtr.)—Let him look to the good
policy of the Nethr rlands (the Constitution of which
had been adopted by our advice), and be would then
see that every individual had the right of aspiring to
the highest offices in the country, without any regard
to religions opinions. How we could sincerely ad-
vise that policy to be adopted in the Netherlands, and
yet reject it here, was a point be was at a loss to
comprehend, unless, indeed, we acted on the old
adage, ~ don't do as I do, but dosas I say." By
agreeing to this resolution of his Noble Friend 1:1, r
Lordships gave no pledge of granting any tonres-
along, but merely of taking the matter into serious
fouciderAtioa. This was a duty they were imperi•
wily called to discbarge, in justice to themselves
and their oppressed fellow-subjects, and by attendier
to it they would prootire the confidence of those wbo'