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London, England, 1819-05-19 00:00:00

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___.—.os=ams.llllll4- Tide called the,Report of a Committee, but it was in
point oet a deereate ' , -particular branches,. but Ilact nothing more than the Report of the (Thancellor
tw ottld prilve h gin
3m.
end total stagnationa It of the Exchequer. That Report liad certainly come
had neveraaccurred'iok misters, that it might be to the House through the Chairntan of a Commit-
proper to ao someihing is .bite shape of a coin- tee, but it had first been handed to ltheeby the Eight
. rnercial treaty, 'inept an the case of America.= Honourable Gentleman at the head of the France
And yet by this very
,may they had scattered more Department, who on this occasion had thought, pro-
dismay among the persons
.connected with the New- per to avail himself of other organs than his own.
foundland trade than any treaty had done before. From that Repert, it appeared that there was a real
Thee was a cheering hope arising from the steuggle surplus of {1,500,000 applicable to the reduction'of
of a brave people contending for national indepen- the public debt in the present year. This so applied
dence. An opening seemed prepared for our trade would, in the course of the next two years, effect a
in South America, but as if this were too favourable, diminution of the debt, and with the £5,700,000 al-
a Bill Was now depending in the House, which would ready mentioned, and other items which he enume-
exasperate those nations whom it would be our best rated, would make the total reduction accomplished
policy to conciliate, and would close that last and in five years of peace amount to £12,000,000, and
*lonely hopet When our manufacturers were starving no more. Now he would ask lf, after this statement,
at' ome, this wide issue for the sale of their goods which could not be disproved, he had not a right fit
would thus be entirely cut off by the impolicy of the bring. forward a Motion like that which he should
Government, and we should throw the whole trade submit to the House this night? Was it not time
of Soith Ametica, if we could manage it, into the for the House to interfere when Ministers werepur-
hands otother nations. Ministers had therefore done suing such a course ? Let any man who heard him
worse thln nothing. They had deeply injured our lay his hand on his heart, and say, if he could, that
trade, and violated all the feelings which used to they ought to continue their career, and go on sacri-
forrn e guide of the British character. He would ficing the interests of the nation, as they were pow
t
11 the attention of the House very briefly to doing, because they felt that they could not keep
financial situation of the country, from the sth their places, if they ventured on bringing forward
; ew
o January, 1816, the first year of peace after the such measures as the circumstances of the country
return of Bonaparte, to the sth of Jdnuary, 1819,—. required. He had shewn that after five years of
This period would afford a fair sample of what peace, if they were suffered to go on, but £12,000,000
might be expected frdm his Majesty's Government of the debt would be redeemed, and then the coun-
on subjects of finance. On the sth of January, 1816, try would find itself encumbered with a debt of more
the total of the funded and unfunded debt amounted than £800,000.000 to meet the events which might
to ff6o millions. One might have thought that with then arise, and, if necessary, with such a burthen to
such a mass before them, Ministers would have lost enter upon a new war. He would now offer a few
no time in making arrangements to cope with so words on the situation in which Ministers stood with
formidable an adversary. They had made a weak respect to the Bank. The I louse were aware that
attempt of this kind vlienahey proposed to continue the Consolidated Fund was that fund to which the
the Property Tax, fqt on that rested . all their hopes public creditor had to look for his dividend. What-
of a remedy. , The Propertk Tax was rejected, as ever went to that Fund was applicable for the eis-
every Member of the House well knew, and Minis- charge of his dividend, Now that Fund was at pie-
ters had not resigned. That was not to be expected sent in arrear to the amount of £3,300,000. There
—(laughter). It might have been thought that they was no immediate promise of improvement. To
would have formed some other plan, but they gave thatJ3,3oo,ooo was to be added £2,700,000 payable
up the War Malt Duty, which had not been asked, to the Bank, making together a charge of1:6,000,000.,
and then resolved to have no plan whatever— Now, did the House know that the payment of the
(laughter)—but to live their %%hole tune on the dividends every quarter depended upon the good-
bounty of the Bank, or what was still more agree- will of the Bank ; and if the Bank were to turn round
able to them, on the Chapter of Accidents...4lo'VA. on the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and say, we will
tcr). In 1816, they had borrowed nine millions, not lend you the £6,000,000 you want to pay your
postponed the repayment of three millions due to the dividends, the Right Honourable Gentleman could
Bank, and rent wed the restrictions on cash payments no more raise the sum wanted for that purpose than
for two years. Thus ended the whole of the financial raise the dead—(Naar, hear, hear!) But if he could
operations of that year ! In the next, the House find other means of raising the money wanted to re-
heard the most flattering speeches and anticipations tisfy the public creditor, was it well that in a time
of prosperity. The Stocks were to be at par, and of peace the payment of dividends should be left to
the 5 per Cent. to be paid of. Nothing could °equal depend entirely on the good-will of the Bank? He
the flourishing condition of the country. He did not was far from saying that the Bank would desire to
wish to lay the blame pf all those speeches on the give the public creditor any inconvenience, because
Right Rom Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of it might be their interest as well as their duty to
the Exelequer). The Noble Lord (Lord Castlereagh) avoid doing so; but was the state of things which he
was equally responsible for them ; for the Chancellor bad described that which ought to remain? Though
of the Excheqeet only spoke what was the sense of it was not likely that they would take a course dif-
the Cabieet—Vieer,teer). They really believed that ferret from that which they had hitherto pursued,
the 5 per cents. were to be paid off; and had that yet• as they thought they were at present net very
been effected, they would have committed a fraud— kindly used, what would be the consequence if they
(Hear, deer, keae). That year ten millions had been should quarrel with the Chancellor of the Exchequer
added to the unfunded debt. At the opening of for taking that line of conduct which he might think
1818, every thing was still represented in a flourish- it his duty to prefer, and leive him to do with the
ing condition.' dreams of prosperity were still flitting dividends as he could? He would now take some
before the eyes of the Ministry, and even the Report notice of the recent financial opesations of the Chan-
of the Committee of Finance stated that the time callor of the Exchequer. In the last year, the sum
was not far distant when a great saving would be of £27,000,000 had been taised by loan, and no pro-
effected to the country. That year the Right Hon. vision had been made for the interest to be paid on
Gentleman opposite had brought in his Three and a it, or for a sinking fund applicable to it. Nothing
Half per Cent. Stock, as a preparation for paying off had been brought forward to meet the charge of its
the Five per Cents. The payment of the £9,000k00 interest, which amounted to £1,600,000. Assuniing
due to the Bank was then suspended for another the loan in the present year would be £22,000,000,
year, and it became necessary that the resumption the interest on that sum, added to the charge he had
of cash payments should be suspended also, and ac- just mentioned, would leave the sum of £2,900,000 to
cordingly the return to payments in specie was post- be provided for on account of the two loans. Here,
pored till the sth of July, 1819. He had moved then, the House would see they were placed in an
last year for the appointment of a Committee to in- extraordinary situation, inasmuch as they had arrived
quire into the affairs of the Bank, but then no one at the end of the third year of peace, without having
would heir of such a thing. Such a proceeding, it provided for paying the interest of the money which
was thought, would be improper, and the House they had been obliged to borrow at the end of the
came to a vote against it ; and thus one entire year second. He had heard a rumour abroad that it was
was lost. This year such an inquiry had been pro- intended to meet the charge by imposing new taxes;
posed and agreed to, and the year woich had inter- if the Sinking Fund were resorted to on this occasion,
?eyed between his motion aud that which had been the House must make up their mind to lose the whole
carried, it appeared to him was sacrificed merely of the miserable and contemptible surplus, the one
because the proposition for the inquiry referred to, million nine hundred thousand pounds which he had
had come, in the first instance, from the Opposition announced to be at present applicable to the reduc,
instead of from the Ministerial side of the House.— tion of the national debt. The proposition for im-
It might be supposed by some that the year which posing new taxes was one that deserved very serious
had thus passed away was necessary to enable the consideration. -He would now distinctly tell the
Bank to prepare for the resumption of cash payments, Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he would never
No such thing. This was denied by Ministers them- vote for one new tax till he had placed the finances
selves. The course now pursued had been stated to of the country on a proper and intelligible footing.
have resulted from unforeseen circumstances ; but To vote new taxes would be to do no good. It
the circumstances in question, he would maintain, would only goad and blister the public, year after
had not been unforeseen. Could any thing, he would year, to no purpose, in order to bolster up a little
ask, be more than the conduct of Go- longer a system which ought not to be permitted to
veniment had been in these matters during the last be persevered in, and which, /rota the incessant fluc-
three years, in which they had accomplished so little? tuations which accompanied it, made it impossible
It was material that the House should look to the for any man to know what property he possessed.
final result of their measures. On the sth January, If, as he had hoped would have been the case, some
IHI9, the Public Debt, funded and unfunded, more simple and intelligible plan of finance had
amounted to £845,000,000. This was its amount in been brought forward, there might have been .some
last January. On the sth January, 1516, it amounted temptations to vote new taxes, but he would vote for
to £1359,000,000. It would then be seen, that in the none while no reform of oar financial system was at-
three years which had passed since the Peace, the tempted. This Ministers had net thought proper to
reduction of the public debt which had been effected set themselves about, and going on as they did at
amounted to £3+,000a:00, and no more. From this present, they turned their backs on their country,
reduction, however, some allowance ought to be and proved that they wanted heart-vigilance and
made for the assets in hand in 1816. At that period, energy sufficient to serve it. At present, as he had
frotn the excess of certain grants, owing to particular already said, no man could tell the amount of his
circumstances, there remained in the hands of Minis- property. Immediately after the peace, the Funds
ters a sum of about £3,000,000. To this might be were at 63. A year ago, they were at 83, having
added arrears of the Property Tax, which, with the risen no less than twenty per cent. and now they
former sum, place 4 at the disposal of Ministers made had get down again to 72. These fluctuations gave
altogether the sum iii £8,4604100. Deducting this fortunes to many, but destruction to many more.—
sum from that by which the National Debt had Such a system had made the people of this country
been reduced within the period referred to, the a nation of gamblers and stock jobbers, Ile did not
real total balance,of improvement effected during mean to say those who were concerned in the funds
the three first yetteh of peace would be found to had not a right to make use of their sagacity and do
Le not .one farthig more than £5a00,000. Thus, that which was most for their own interest, but he
then, in eke icii 1819 the nation was left with a viewed the present Government as responsible for all
debt of £845,900,000, after three years of peace, the losses that were sustained. It was now under-
which debt wee not likely to be speedily diminished. stood that money was to be raised by a loan in the
The hope bad out to them with respect to the re- present year, and speculation was as usual on the
duction of die public debt, he had not much faith in. alert.. Next January would not arrive without bring-
It ought to be known, generally that these were, in ing plenty of reports of what would be the course
,
fact, nothing more than those entertained by the pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1520;
Chancellor of the Exchequer and the Noble Lord 1 and those fluctuations would continue, in the midst
opposite. It was true, they had before them whatiof which no man could say his property was sec.uic.

When he said this; he slid not mean to'say that pre-
meant that those fluctuations would take pla elt
perty would not be secure from violence, but lb
thwhiatchmhues,t
inhis seriously
conscience,vented, if the finances of the country were put on s
proper footing, and which it was most desirable to
atrct pro
o l iPees i7eyd might be pro
in a manna'
avoid. If at the end of five years of peace, but
£12,000,000 being paid off,- any of those possible
occurrences should take place to which in the former
should take place—if it should only he
part of his speech he had alludedi—if any hostile ne-
gociation
necessarycount with a
to fit outdea:taromfantitie3nst,,otoohe,soolitu)a, would be
of this
tom fosntrepiergnilerous,s.
andTh to diem
ist*owa
it would be useless tos no secret—it was known
talk of the valour of our armies and navies, he was
going to add of the wisdom of our Councils, but
that was quite out of the question--(A lattgh4-1t
was useless to talk of all these,
if we possessed not
the means of putting them in action, and these means
would be wanting if some improvement were not
made in our condition. The present motion, he,con-
fessed, in his view of it, went to alter the present
Administration. He thought he had made out a
case which justified him' in saying the situation of
the country required the aid of vigorous and strong
Councils—(Hear, hear.)—.He was glad to see the
Noble Lord admitted this, and this admitted, he
thought the House bound to interfere, Ly granting
that which would be the 'lject of the present motion.
Whoever looked at the 2 :;ent internal situation of
the country, must reset that no Minister carted
who was able or inclined to bring forward tho V 2 sub-
jects most intimately connected with its welfare, in a
way calculated to hencfit the people. What bad
been done with the Poor Laws ? A Conuni:tee had
sat, and several [tills had been brought in which had
failed. Of the two last that were introduced, one
had survived its introduction, and the other was row
in its last agonies. Was it not extraordinary that
Ministers should, in time of recce, find no lci.ure to
attend with effect, even to affairs like these ? Mi-
nisters had of late done nothing. He was now speak-
ing on the 18th of May, and he would ask the I louse
what had been done in the course of the present Ses-
sion ? He would tell them what. They had now
just got through the Asmy Estimates, and they had
done nothing else, There bad been, indeed, a Com-
mittee appointed to inquire into the affairs of the
Bank. He had moved for one, and Ministers, instead
of acceding to his motion, had appointed a Commit-
tee of their own. His object was to alter the present
Administration, but those who voted for the present
motion need not go with him to that extent. Every
man who voted against him woultf, in effect, record
his perfect confidence in the wisdom and vigour of the
present Ministers, and declare it his opinion that their
career ought not to be interrupted—(Hear, hear.)—
Whoever voted against him that night, virtually de-
dared that he had a confidence in his Majesty's Mi-
nisters, and that their career ought not to be inter-
rupted. Whoever voted for him, declared that he
knew the country was in danger, and that he would
enter into measures to obtain a remedy. .. He who
voted with him might be an enemy to the promotion
of the Opposition to offices. He might say—ii The
Opposition may be hanged before I shall give them
my support to get into place;' but this was all he
hazarded by his concurrence. Whereas, he who
voted against the question, must say, that he had a
confidence in his Majesty's Ministers. It had been
the old reproach, whenever the State of the Nation
was moved to be taken into consideration' by a Com,
injure, that the Opposition wished only to march
into place. But he would answer for himself—if
there was an individual in that House, who cared
little about office, it was the bumble person who then
addressed them (Cheer:4-ler he should say, that he
always maintained, since his first admission to the
House, that no man ought to be ashamed of avowing
a wish to be promoted to office. There was no dis-
grace in the ambition of a man Who took office upon
his own terms, and those of his friends. Office, in
truth, ought to be the legitimate object to besought
for, by all who thought he had within him the means
of being useful to his country. He had not, he
should confess, an indisposition to office, but he did
not affect office. He was in possession of good healthc
but still he was advanced in years ; and no longer
was he the little that he had been. His fortune was
limited, and therefore he could not with to obtain a
lank, in which he knew that every man must be a
loser. As to the hope of being useful to himself or
his friends, he would despise such paltry motives—
(Hear, hear.)—At the same time, he would assure the
House, that if an opening occurred where he might
undertake office upon his own principles, and those
of his friends, he would think the opportunity worthy
of any sacrifice.. The prosperity of the country de-
pended on a strong Administration. He would re-
peat it, the Ministers were doing no good—they
could do no good. 'These were the opinions of him-
self ; and he would tell the Noble Lord, for he had a
good opportunity of knowing it, of many outside the
House—and not only of them, but of many who
would vote for the Noble Lord that night. For,
though such persons might stay away-with impunity
on other occasions, though they might say—“ We
won't go to the House to-night ; we won't vote for
Scotch Burghs, and so forth ;" still upon the vital
question of a change in Administration, the while
force must be collected—Vicar, hear.)—glut there
were some, no doubt, who might say, that if the pre-
sent were removed, no better Administration could
be formed. If so, the country was truly in a bad
state—(.llaugh)--and the only resource left, was for
the House to resolve itself into a Committee, and
Lvote its sittings permanent—(A laugh.)—He would
y, that the Ministers wished to retain their own
places at the hazard of the destruction of the prospe-
rity of the country. The House only wanted an ex-
ertion of good sense to express their opinion of use'
present Administration. The way was now clear be-
fore them. It might be objected to him that his mo-
sa
tion was premature in bang brought t n before the
discussion of the Bank Report. To this he should
simply say, that there was nothing in common be-
tween him and the Committee. Besides there could he
no place better suited to the discussion of the Bank af-
fairs, than in a Committee on the St4e safthe Nation.
-hen ctonbastiderwliniaorauconjinictionv..
cosnwi:hbertheorevaa-
The affairs of the Bank could only receive a proper
enquiry
i al: i subjectsry
Committee oil the State of the Naiion., At present
there was a good deal of disagevincut among Mi-

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S .•' • • 5a1.P...."11114e."1.14111"..."1"..—m--"nAlt.' fork called tbe,Report of a Comtnittef, but it was in ' When he said thj
r. .11 IP. ' polnt opt a deerlasa ' cpastictsr branches,, butlfact nothing more than the Report of the (Thancellor perty would not
. • ~ .1. . isvolgd prove "a" gen . . stagnation It of the Exchequer. That Reportind certainly come meant that tho
I: , had never occtitred—tok artera,,that 4 might be to the House through the Chairniasi of a Commit- that must seri°
proper to do tonteihtne n .Phe
-shat
of
a
coin- tee, but it had first been hwided to him-by the IZight which he, in his
I, , 1 . .
Yi. I', . . rnercial treaty, except .1n . the case of America.—.. Honourable Gentleman at the head of the Finance vented, if the fir
i: li , i . . . . And yet by this very
,may they had scattered more Department, who on this occasion had thought, pro- proper footing,, :
. 0 / . : ..i • . .r- dismay among the persons
.connected with the New- per to avail himself of other organs than his own. avoid. If at tit
ni i • • foundland trade than any treaty had done before. From that Repert, it appeared that there was a real £12,000,000 be
.f ••i • . . . The-e was a cheering hope arising from the struggle surplus of 4:1,900,000 applicable to the reduction'of occurrences shot
..J • ,i ,
i 'lf of a brave people contending for national indepen- the public debt in the present year. This so applied part of his spree
dence. An opening seemed prepared for our trade wduld, in the course of the next two years, effect a gociation shouh
t 1 4 #
in S9uth America, but as if this were too favourable, diminution of the debt, and with the 1:5,700,000 al- necessary to fit r
, • , , A ......“3... ....... 6: .. -.a —.I ~a,.... ;rpm. which he enume• country, with g

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