Star.
London, England, 1829-04-06 00:00:00

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The unions which had sake° place w .ionic tither ts.ustirt....
been appealed to ; there why Indeed unions but HOC set to,
Scions, end they served to show that Protestant and Roman .
thoßtkpeiver were inure likely to be harmonious when separate
than when united. He would not travel through the Tan
matter which would he necessary to ehowthat there was .
InArter_the.efeffffils IWlThlFlStriird' to A.
state and circumstances of this kingdom. hut he would mon
broadly, and 'inelegancy of contradiction, that there was no country
of Europe in which the ecclesiastical authority of the Church to
Revue %ensile, mitigated and restricted by some domestic power.
And that after the passing of this.Aet .li.nellupd -would present the
solitary example of political Sower entrusted to the adherents of
the Church of Rome, without check or cesium! of any kind upon
ter eteftrsiaoleal authority. He would 'toot refer to the details of
history, but of those who said that the charterer of the Church or
Rome was uo longer the same as it had formerly hem, he would
demand to point a ainele instance In which the had.tzercised mot-
to's totalled power, Without employing it for the purposes of per.
esculent,. He intended no offence to individuals, but the declare
dons of Roman. Catholic Ecelmiastkal aetborities, upon which'
some persons were dimmed to place much reliance. were not awl
titled to reeved. They were declaration, of honour, and formed
no fit ground of legislation. Oaths impostd •upoli men were reli-
giose, obligatioos, but when they were opposed to other rehelims
obligations they ceased to he of any value. He should not. he
trusted, be accused of resorting to musty records for his authority.
when he quoted the Bull of Pope Leo the Twelfth, issued in the
year 1123. This Bull had reference to certain oaths supposed to
have been taken by the Carbonari of Italy. 'He quoted from a
woik called the Calkeic Spedolor, a work published by authority.
Ile would prove from this lieu, that if the Catholic Religion west'
cheesed, it must have been since the year 1825. Pope Leo XII.'
said in this Bull that the Fathers in the Council of Laterals had
*leek determined that so oath directed again it the hater's, of the
Chisel' was perjury front the nutmeat when it was taken. If Leo
Ell. in the nineteenth century was thus found referring to the so.
thoritg of the Council of Lateran, which was held in the 12th ctn.
tory, surely he had a right to say th tbeCatholic religion remained
unchanged. He memo no disrespect to the Noble Duke, but what
be colketed!from his statement was, that England was no longer
able to retest Ireland, and eaie the time bad now come when Ire.
land must govern England, and therefore he proposed to abandon
laws which up to a very recent period he had thought good and be-
neficial laws. This statement was a most alarming one, and he could
not conceal his surprise at thy composure whh which it bad been
listened to by their Lordships... The Noble Duke had also said that
they could not get a House of Ormonons which would concur in the
riltalkUltti necessary to support the present law, lie del not know
hew far this asset dote was well founded, hut he did know th-t the
Noble Duke bed nor tried, and apparently was determined not to
try. the eapeeiment. They were now shout to secure the Protegees
religion by giving increased political power to cite Roman Callus.,
lies. This appeared to him to be as reasonable as to appoint
the Pope the guardian of the Protestantism of the British
Crown. The °pinto'', of the rising generation of Stati.smeo
had been referred to as affording • moral certainty of the
measure being eventually cooled. Arpin ing minds—and -he did
into meow that the description appioed wily ro the young men Di
this Augustine age—eager foedistinction, found it easier to throw
the great men of past generation* into the shade by differing
front them than by. intitaiieg them; they disdained to build
upon the old foundetion, to follow a tr..ct which was already
beaten, or to draw water front the tountains sisals deli
ancesionelied opened. They reqtsired new forme and rehab/UM/A
0. intellectual greatness. He foe one was not disposed to plow
the welfare, happiness, religion, and liberty to a great nation at the
entity, of a class of preemie with whom novelty and merit were
synoiennous terms. lie admitted tit it the great foundations of
berry were laid in Magna Cbsr:a; hut when ibis great national
lei' cord waareferred to as a proof of the regard of our Roman Ca
Stolle ancestors to political fractions. be could not forget that what
lied to that clatter was a contest between the .King. the Harms,
and the Clew, as to which of the three should have the power of
oppressing the people. It had the morel effect of pacing both
Clergy and laity under the judspiutleuce of the land; but the
oleliasks who wok part in it were—and this was a circumstaoce
which ought not to. be forgotten...subjected to the centres-of the
Church of Rome for the part they wok upon that oecation. The
seine thing was proved by the reigns of Edward I. and Kdward
The nuenweit• that Kings became' able to subdue the spin.
atrial postr*r they became the tyrants of the people; no civil li.
bertyesitted in their feigns. Edward the Toed was the conqueror
of the Clew, but be trampled oar' the liberties of the people.
It was necessary then that the King should subdue them. and them
govern his subjects by arbitrary power, or he would become these
Neva—the slave of men• who mere neminal:y his subject.., but
who were really the instruments of the l'rirsts. Liberty was not
euablithed till the people came out of, darkticertill the great
burst of mental emancipation fertilised the field of liberty *kb
the ashes of superstition, which they were now tempted its part
to rekindle, in proof of their great desire to preserve the blessings
of liberty for their country. Whenever any cunthinatiou, reli.
gimes, political, or philosophical. assumed a jurisdiction in a State
adverse to the civil power, grounding its authority no more than.
human means, that combination, being destructive of liberty, sleou'A
-if possible be instantly deprived of the means of contruittiniffurther
injury. In this way liberty was but another word for justice; for
a,. justice protecteth religion and civil litterty.it was identified verb
them. lie did nut see how any Noble Lords could agree with
the theory of Locke; that total and unqualified toletetion was to
be-realised. let them not be the slaves of phrases. When they
raw total and unqualified liberty conduct men only to slavery, he
must say that his mind, for one, was not so sublime' as to adept
It. i know, said his Lordship, that many of your Lordship* bolo
in the highest veneration the ancient monuments of Greece and
Lonie. as well as their laws anti civil regulations, and, from eh,
laws of Solon, it appears that the principle for a tench I now con-
, tend.was admitted 2,000 years ago. In Rome, the power of the
I'riests was considerable; and Cicero in his &leis pro Dente. says.
" Quid si ullo Impure ; magna cause sacerdotuen poputi Romani
judicio se prutestate versara est ; bac protect° tante est, ut times
republics dignity ontnium cesium sa us, vita Oboe tas ars foci dii
posses bona Outman docnicitia 'wins lidei, prectstalique com.
missa Creditaque CMG videactuT." My Lords, the people of Eng.
laud are also ready to defend their religion; they are ready to do
so, cot from any stupid or undebned attachment to it, but from ag
belief in its purity and truth, and from its hying been handed
dews to them by their forefathers; from a conviction that it hal-
lows arid makes sacred all their enjoyments. My -leads. these ate
the grounds upon wirier my opintous upon this guys, iptware formed.
I am noxious to preserve those I'rotestant principles and that Pro.
testantConstlnitimi which seated the UMW of iliucswick on the
'Mue.
Lord LI LFORD said, that the first question be should wish to
ask was, whether this measure had been proved to be one of State
arepowity ? Form all that he had beard, be thought that there was
.absridant evident', to show that it was one of State necessity. The
preplan then rim, what ought to be done? The answer was,oss
..ot two alterostives must be adopted—tither fools% r concessions
must be granted, or martial lave must be wooed to in Itelasailow
The latter course, he was convinced, coedit nut keep that coseileg
io a state of permanent tranquillity. whilst its opt ration would mot
certainly be productive of the must appalling remits. With ra.ptet
in security, his Lordship thought that the be't security for alts
'maintenance of the Protestant Church would be found in, the sus►
rior excellence of 'Rs principles. ilia Lordship concluded by sop
porting the measure. . .
The Earl ni WESTMORELAND askeJ in what s:a
tasting, did their Lordships at that mammies/el? Ills M.jesty
kadalit Ms gracious Speech. directed them to take into ',trodden.
tide the general situation of Ireland, with a,view to the extension
et such relief as could be safely granted to his Roman Caiholic
subjects. To this their Lordships, without any diatosion, replied
that they would take the subject into their-moat serious considera-
tion. Then he would again ask. in what situation did they s:ow
stand? How, could .they redeem their premise if they ti fused to
take the question into their coosideresius? They bad passed a
1141—a mow extraordinary one.-.abolishing the Rom n Catholic
Association, but they did co under the &semisoft given to has Ma.
jetty that they intended to take this more important ques kiss inc
their consideration. blany of their Lordships acquiesced in the
former, soder the impre.sotion that the answer. grim by the 11.4 t-t-to
-to his Majesty's Speech would he adhered to is the people 11 lit.
lantacqolesced Ia the measure under the. aanzeinwresows. And
then ins. hat Suasion would their Lordships be placed, if, instead
44 Oldie" and consideradon, they were to turn short upon these
peestuit, aid say. " We will enter into nu inquiry—we will est
take the question into our- contideratineo-what we said upon-that-
subject we said in order to deceive and catnip you ?"—(liewe
hear). Now, whatever might be his opiulues upon this questieskl
be felt that they were bound at least to .go into a Cumulittee
the Bill ; and it upon inquiry they wand that sufficient sesuldre
were mint provided, then their lemdthips would no at Shear
ikjeet is aliegetiter.—(Hex, hear). lie had always looked epee
thin as a Bill intended to make an alteration in the t0w.....0e
aressore to-injure the. Constitution. He bad hitherto oppord
the question of Catholic Emancipation, . because be conssdoced
it tamoslled, for, and fraught with. clangorous coaurqueness,
the extent of which it was. impossible to. foresee. The latter
part of the opinion be still entertained, hut be now felt that
the question lay Petricca digtairs and speculative dangers, not
wpm sod peewit+, ones. Between thew it was that their Lie riffs
(Alpo bad pow to balance, anti.come to a decision. But what, he
asked, bright diem into their present situation? Why >awe they
placed in this dilemma? He maintained that the first step towards i
thrall ante fronktlitteppolutssent of a Desalt:nue knows t0.1111.J
favourabli to the present meseures to the office of Secretary for

He . iiiii-iliOta-fiTaitie to the Irish linilliolder s and landau-
gentry, who sacrificed their agates. toTqlectioneering Formren,
and thus surrendered their power to- the Rieman 'Catholici -
(-Hear. bear). But their Lordships must otne: we. that there.
were others, and be himself was une of the number' .to whteot
no
inconsiderable blame attached, he meant every Ol'emberth
Lord Liverpool's Government for the last tea years. The ma
sterwas the appointment of an Attorney Orient, known Isiritter.
tato opinions equally stenos. it not stronger, than thsoe oldie [gala
Secretary. upon the saute. question. This appointment "lads be
bad to attribute to the advice of the N •bk and Learned Larei 94.4
the mom b. ncb: The crisis at leugth did dime cud what was the'
stittangoetter ? Mr. Canning w.l li.....appll4Sfrd the head of thy Go-.
vernment and what was the consequ, ace ut that apio:loinielit ?
Math iraii:nni soil England were rvguetil ttauseb agruation_that he
perfectly agtee,d with the Nubk Duke in thioking that we must at
leugi beagle the questitm. florists sabl so mica, be must thews..
upon their Lordships (or a few momenta longer: If remrohireti
• story in ilaasensura conversatifts het wren the Evil Spirit anti
L'haruii—la which the former tells . the latter that he mint get
a larger boat, for no 'witty souls would be coming over, in cOn•
sequence td religious disputes upon earth,- it .would be -impos-
sible to con-ey them in his present barge. The Evil One de-
scribed the earth to be deluded with blood upon refigleus
queatione—father was opposed to Mu, brother to brother, landlbrd
to tenant—in a word, that human nature was at war upon 'Mita' of
religion—(icar, and laughter). He believed, if Seamus were
alive now. he could not more .aecurately describe &existing at.,
of things. Father was now opposed to stn, brother to brothers
landlord to tenant—even the fair sea took part in the litairel.....
(Hear, bear, and laughter). Was there any one Lord who would'
take upon his herculean gamblers the weight of conducting affairs
in the present condition of the country? No man.bad a right to
resist this question who was not prepared himself to meet the
dangers and difficulties of administering the Government . No
ma..—not even the must serious opponent of the measure—fondld
tail to me that considerable present benefits sod advantages mug
aria.: (mitt it. It would set a• rest the differences of parties. It
would disarm Motility. and remove whatever was calculated to
engender discord in public and animosities in titivate life—dbougb
It -would take some time to unite the people in friendly association.
Lord BIUNIOUTH observed that it did someinues happen /bat
persona who changed their opiitions, and who were on satisfied
with themselves under that change, would sometimes endeavour to.
inculpate others. Ile must any that he never beard with so much
entombment any thine from any person in prirate or public lifar,.
like what be had beard iron the Noble Lord who bad jll4 NA.
down. Eight years had elapsed since the appointment of the Geo.
tlemen he bad alluded to as Secretary of Ireland. lie bad a great
'respect for that Gentleman, and he was sorry to have it eatiarted
Iron biro, that the appointment had been given to hint up account
of tamely digress. 'lug was known to many Members or the
House, -tad to the Sovereign. What the Noble Lid had /aid with
re.p.ct to the influence of the Catholic priesthood on the great toady
of the people in Intlaij was too true—but was the present ihil*Fel-
euktoei IQ olliniugh that evil? It was mthitained by the Wends of
the measure that something must he dune respecting_ ledge& Ell
did it hallow that that most be done winch hie hl .yesty'i Ministers
have glow nosisimentled ? The real evils oh Ireland were poverty,
ignorance, and, bigotry.—The emancipation of wh;ch the Iriak
pi uple stood in need was emancipation from potent,. leneranee,.
and bigotry. lhe state in which the people sit Ireland were, mot
he tear d, the cause that they were the ready toot. of rebellion to
just authority. 'The first duty of the Legislature was to endeavour
to improve that state. What was especially wanted in Ireland was.
the appointment of some respoustble 'albeit in ever yFtwag y, 'intik
tai the English Lord Li uteuant, who sboti.id have 'corns' id "v.'
the Alagioracy, and report on their proceeding's to sulks for iiiiwef.'
With the advantages rsauitiog bum such a soperitgairiesace to this.
country their Lordships were well awaree-anel there could be lot
doubt that, if the system were adopted in Ireland it would' i.e at-
tended with mill rester benefits. . -
The Earl of W IiSTMORELA NO, in explanation, expressed
his sincere regret th. t his Noble Freud had taken any word which
WI front bias as peranual.to latowielf. - - •
The Earl of LI VERPOOL said, that although he concurred
with his late Noble Relative in opposing-the thous of the Catholics,
he cocain!), hal never been of opiate's- theft the. mischiefs and
dangers likely to result from their admialles to IA equality of deli
eights, were so great as some of the opponents of Einaneipatioo
coosidered them to be. He was now convinced that the adoption
ot the plea. tat measure. although it might not immediately trait-
quillize Leland, and pendant an amelioration of its state, would
tend to the production of those benefits; as. after its adoption, other
means might would be rot to.. which be fraught with the
greases' good to that countiy. It was his opinion, notwithstanding
what Mao tallen from several Prelates of distinguished intelligence
and kerning, that the Protestant F.stablisbment in Ireland was in
greater danger, in its present resides, than it weuldbe in as the
basis upon whack it would be placed by the Bill wider their Lord
ships' consideration. As to the Protestant Estaldishment in Eng-
land. it stood too high. it was guarded toe powerfully, to allow hint
to Intl the slightestapprellensioo respecting it.
Loud "I'LNTERDEN sett+, that-Ibis objection to this
measure was, that io his opinion the adoption of it would be to take
the brold and direct road to the overthrow of the Protestant
Church. It might be said, that in other countries difereot reli-
gious went on uno.thly and-amicably together ; but was there any
other country, either in Ettrope to-elsewhere, that bore any re-
sentbiance.to Ireland in that respect ? In Inland there was as SW,
know/la-died Popish hierarchy asoiming the names of the Protestant
hierarchy established by law. Without alluding to its-Popish cha-
racter, was it reasonable to suppose that any hierarchy, under such
circumstances, would be content to see their dignities and emolu-
meets . enjoyed by those whose ancestors had deprived them of
those dignities and emoluments? Was it not possible, looking
at the ordinary constitution of the bonsai' mind, but that there
most tong in sock persons an earnest and onziousdepire to obtain a
restitution of the advantages of which they had been deptirel 7
to The accontplishment of thatolegre would be assisted by the pre-
sent measure, which would give strength to those engaged in such
a struggle, by giving them political power; by political power be
me .et power increased by legitimate means, and not the power of
piiy,Mal force and number% which had been all eloquently described
by a Noble Lord. Such were briefly the reasons which would in-
duce him to vote sgairot the measure proposed to their Lordships
by his Majesty's Government. If • he were confident that trait.
quWity would •be the happy result of the proposed measure, be
owned that he would binned be di-posed to support the question.
But he anticipated no such result • and apprehended that it would
only give increased power tattoo': who were disposed to exercise it
• .for es god purpows.
Earn GREY expressed regret at differing from ter.
Noble and Learned Lord. Unlearned mile was, he would yenta%
against the judgment of the Noble and Leaned Lord, to car the
views he had taken upon the subject. Ile Noble Lord, after
'having gone through an historical tale of the Oaths of Supmmaeg
and Allegiance downwards, tram the nose of Queen klistbeth, in
the 11111 of Rights, sod also in the 11.11 of Union, came to this coo.
elusion, that the power of Paffiament can abrogate these Acts -...
The Noble Earl then replied to the arguments of :he Noble mid
Learned Lord, and contended. that the foreseer before the Home
would have the effect if strengthening tlie. Church. The N
anvil Leagued Lord talkedusoch of the d over of Kaman Cater
being .admitted into Aces of the State. He thought these antique*
notions had long ago been exploded. The late Lotd Liverpool Well
his opposition oaths Homan f.atholloCiaims. never imputed to them
disloyalty.. Could there be any better security than the security of
the eadapreposed fee the Roman Cat holicatts take / AU brew tin
• regard the CothoMes•enterteitsfor she Mitigation of an oath, It •
because they would not take the Testing Oath that•they were dif
&Walkers various cliern. . Ceitid it, then breald that they srogill
-Dot to be trusted / : Is chasing of emen Falizthethoo widebillis
ilea had so (thee hsen•mede In the course of the debate, it dime&
be recollected that the Catholics weeetrested and appoinlittobleis
- tares. Who was it that destroyed the Bpaatah Armada P Who
wao the Admind•that cenunanded the thretauf Halstead thin ?• It
/
was* Catholic. • Lord Howard of lilinghans. whom mane•
adorned a oeighbourirto sdilleed Pethapseb would Ate said,
might have obtaireed a Weenie. from the NU, to•bght the isattletof
Sovereies 'who bad -bean nootonsiosicated by the pee of Ron*,
which ftwerhadabeened bambini" Crow their allegiance: ft 11,
however, metakatima Homan Catholics mice appointed by a-IWe
tenant Queen tit itippssr the most powerful fa donor direordesaiesi
. this country • and *storm, anise under she besotted Popery.
The Noble Lel then took, a view of the 'opine's, getserstireb.
- forced against the Bill. and asked, what are the evils we antics
from this measure? It would have the elect of Introducing five
or di Peers into this Holm*. and a number of Members not large
would be ret urstedgatbe other Holism Catholics Uvula:be brava'.
"lignite to civil of with few ezoeptiosts.-. What Went, to le-thej
consequence? It It theeCarined that 1111 at onee•the Kiang is to bpi
influenced by some Catholic charm—some flohenielte spell, which
Would work on his mind Cositaele of convei go o. and that be into
, -abidatios the principlesof the Howe of Deerrewick. It is also atrial
that Ike people who had heron alarmed at the •vitity proven. of
this law will become.'" en moored of the Catholic faith. that tioin
i oppedtion to it will cease. To believe this, my Lords, will be elm%
to a bellefeven in treasubstantlaties. f. H
itsele proceedidio erste,
, that sill s nweeerel be (harrow an firth* Lordships! considerate%
i vele adopted, it would be impassible to tranquillise Ireland. What

either House of. Perlianient—and against the aJvice of the greate%t
Generals whit haireadOrried unr arms—we have dune all this. anal
we can console ourselves with the thought that we hive &roe our
duty—; " Fiatiustitia, resat cesium."
Atari Ewa animated eulogiuni on the cineduct of the Minister in
sing the present line or policy instead of nalting the horrors .4
4 "tit *lt; 114140440 filid,"l leceive with, uitqoaltidd
cation. the ,nrefritire which the Noble Duke ha. imposed. and I
OA tit Unisten staling conviLtion, that the cuuntry will feel
t arils that Noble finiivislual the sante gratitude tor this hems of
peace which they C..,1t.•+ to have received at his hands as the
• set war, and be as Uttl churlish to admit the oue as they
have been prodigal its testilying to the other.
Lord REDESDA rose—hut gave way to the.very general'
calls fur
1

.Lord ELDON, who began by saying that he consies
ivied-this she most senpostant subject that had ewes
can.. under r•eir Lordships consi.leration, and Ca-
tee sted indulgence while Ee . attenivtiol to
justify
t to line cif policy vs hich hr hal hitherto pursued with
Tweet to it. lie ilicrukt feel willing to relieve the*
L- rdships from the-fatigue of a pinioned discisssi n,
bUt still telt it due to himself to drain them lunges
than but for the allosiosis that had been person illy made
tes him he would otherwise be dispoaed, to do. lie must
begin by selling his Noble Friend (Eirl they.) who
spike of him as the leader of the opposition to this Bill,
that he had no intention of sustaining the character of
a leader.of any party in the House; and that it would
be very much to 'hie satisfaction if he could avoid
en:eking same observations which could hardly be
called personal, though they related individually to
some sou his Majesty's .Ministera. He be)ieved in his
conscience, that the Noble peke made this proposition,
because he felt it to be his duty to the country; and
most assuredly that the Noble Duke should make such
proposition at some time or other, would have been no
matter of surprise to him; but it was a matter of sur-
prise, and of nom sus prise too, at the moment at which
it was made. But he enust_say, that its_ it applied to
the Noble Doke himself and the ether Moisten, he bad
'so-doubt that this Bill was introduced as a matter of
d,ty n their part towards the it unity ; and they asigbt
nave judged it sissies, the zie.uxisrances,even
to make it a mallet of surmise.. Susie on' to ago,. a
N able Lord embarked that it Mas the duty of a Aisne
Mini.tet not to datcover what isseissuies' he was going
to pursue, until he had obtained the approbation cif his
Sovereign so.the proposition be was going to make.
Out as in this instance it happened to be sevealed by
rue mistake, the public sett taught to believe that
• no such proposition would ciime horn that quarter.
lit (Lord Eolnis) insisted, thesetoie, that the reopk
o -this irouestry had been taken by surpri.e web this
nise.ssure.-ohith they co-.ceived. and justly, affected
shear *vest inteve-ts in_ this world. and their best
• props-toy ; for Lord Somers, when speaking of the
Estirtlished- Church as the -proper', of the people, re-
tit:liked, Mat "it is V.e best ptoreity we cars 'leave as
.ass inheritance to those wholseill cisme atter ts-.' When
this question was discussed in this Huse lass Session,
the Noble Duke stated, in reference to !Hyland, that that
con-tryWks 4, in such a state if agitation; that the ques-
tion should fora time be consigned to oblivion. It
happened afterwards by a whisper. for he would call tt
nothing else, that the letter of the Noble Duke to a Ro-
man Catholic Prelate was the means of giving some in-
formation to the world, as it was then considered. This
took place in lk. ember last, and that letter stated that
it was not the Noble Duke's intention at that time to
bring forward any n.easure of this kind, and that Le-
land must cease to be in i time of agitation before be
could do so. Now the ; üblication of this letter was, be
must say, towards the people of this country, a great
tnisfottene; for it led them to sink into a state of apathy
gene' aced by the persuasion that no measures would
ne brought forward, at any rate this Session—(Cheers).
This was the case also in consequence of what passed
in tither places, shered3C Right Honourable Gentleman
(the Secretary of Stasi for the Home Department) was
visiting last summer ; and when h m taloned his mess,
let him not be understood to ireak of him tinder any
infuenceof irritation whateyei.
.!k would solemnly
declare that if there were any. unfavourable impression
on the mind of that Right Honourable tieistleman in.
wards him, or if be thought that the old masins,
" idea, wile, idea, was not the foundation of all
true friendship both in public and private life, lie suf
feied the most excruciating pang I e bad ever enclosed
when lie found that he differed from him on thi. Rues.
tion. During the last 15 years, he had most effective sup-
pent ice the concurrence of his opinions with those of the
Right llon.Gent. He did n t doubt that it bad happened
'Tom his feelings of di ty that he thought himself bound
to change his opinions and act oa ano.her system ; and
vili•le he stated that with respect to him, he hoped he
would admit with respect to him (Lord Eldon), that is
he had not changed his opinions, it was because he
thought his duty to his King, to his fellow-subjects, and
to his country, 'ego:red that he should not do so. The
Noble Duke, in stati g the grounds on which he brought
forward this measuie, alluded to the evils of a divided
Cabinet, •and stated that that circumstance produced al
difficu ty in catrying the administration of the law into
due effect. He tru.ted the Noble Duke would allow him
to state his opinion as to the reasou why the administte
tion of thilaw was defeated. He was scr sy that he did not
see in his place the late Lord P, ivy Seal (the Earl of
Westmoreland), who arraigned him at the bar of the
'House for his conduct doting thelast ten years, and stated
hat he t 'ought that a person in the situation be (Lord
Eldon) is eta had the honour to 611, acted contrary to
his duty in suffering further offences to be committed
against the Kipg's Government with impunity ; and be
complained that *prosectstioni were not aimed against
individual* who were bolding seditious meetings, and
using language that was cootraty.to law, and dealing
in slander and obloquy against the most loyal and re-,
spectable individuals armed in support of the Consti-
:l Onion. As to the Act passed four years ago to put down
the Catholic Association, be must say that it was never
his opinion that that,Act, unless its operation were ac-
companied by putting into eatscotionthe common law
of the land, would be sufficieet of, itself to accomplish
the surpass for which it *as passed. About three years
'go be had the. honour to state, rebat he noted now,
sitiathe thought it remarkable, that !under such circupi
stances as. then altcrsted the State of, lieland, Abe wal-
l:kn law was not y tn. in, force. bad never besrd vb.
circumstenies.plevepted that from being done, nor di.
ahsnelisktotoennabe;iinbi:vc!iduaseiwewiatgesibeciediliesteectceomei
Alonet.
ifwilraomrw9iso4sthfhtldet.b,tecoloaimSstrdmi
tmoiliatheigolghathttwthbc
state of parties so
of jurors and magistrates, that therweie not willing ts
put the laws into execittion..lt might be, also, that the
law 01ficcT1 tbe.Ct9wu had goq..shooetit.iivorinalios
fiow to act; or it might IX, that they mere not able. t•
et.sietficient ,eeidence:•itk .coAisetinenue of.ittig state r
political feeling in that country. It might also be—

, was, but I.c could not-yenta,/ to'
the law officers of the Clown 140,4 ii
different situation from the law r.(ficelo
En land: in beans' they expected it*
the King's Minioters in this country, bet
3I England to k on themselves, in the
___...sgrottheir .cluty;lo'institate.ptdsteutionrwbeeo
they s Ao• II igrant offences spriest his isi.je;ty'sGoteis.
meta. Ile begged it to be blue, wed that he war ore
diseased to make.aity_obsexentioo.whieb might last his
received with pet leccauilaction by
every body who
teatil, him:. bet. harries had-some rept/time is li
prolessional Atuetipe* he .thought hiuoelf 'sod"'
;to •tae,,his ,'opiolons on , knell, a subject as this
107peeially when k int necessary to his. own defence:
;Ile bad Le trd a prOposition state) last night in are
Inoue by the N .ble and .Learned .Lend on As Wow.
.-ack„that if a as a nrattee.at duty in any person oboes
4 member a s -decided' Cabinet to withdraw hem it: If
float Vil Ft a proper sense of deny, then Ite'had erred, gm
aired greatly; tor he (Lord Ellthofight he had cote*
hinise.f with authority enough bysthe iudibples of dreg
mound him. • He ceotainly did not feel it his dirty gi
/cite (runs the Cabinet because .it was divided ea WI
question. unless he had seen an opportunity:to fovea,
undivided Cabinet in •support of the Protestant cams:
and bethought the Noble and Learned Lord MI OS
,Woulsack. it be had infant to SIAM that it was the duty.
of a Minister not to remain in a divided Cabiuet, "mit
have reflected on the good luck that attended his
!wham be went with the Cabinet of the Duke of We.
lington up toe certain period, and before that with do
Cabinet of Lord Goderich. and .before that with deo
of Mr. Cannin;. That Noble and Lesrned Lord stated
to their Lordship; that he had said he sheuld not address
him any more as his Noble Friend; but be did not adsk
that he had said so because be had charged him wish
making insinuation; end with.a designed mystification
of the merits of .the union with Scotland, which he did
in a manner of expression which he felt to I- ire:nem*
disrespectful. If the Noble and Learned Lord audit
make up the difference between his present language ea
this question and the high words be bad used in the •
House of Commons, be would find him as ready is
forget all that had passed. He meant when Mr. Cosa.
r int offered. in a few words, to make up a dispute that
bad taken place io another House. and when that ne-
gotiation failed, completed another by putting a cattle
Treaty under the Great Seal. He felt while making these
females that there was a sort of indecorum in a diopute cf
this nature between 4 Chancellor and an ExsChanceller,
and that it would be better to settle it without further
controversy. But be aunt remark on what the Noble
and Learned Lord said, when he got up last night to
prove his own consistency. How did he endeavour to
II make it out ? ~ 'laboured attempt to prove his (Lord
Eldon's) inc nsiurncy. He took facts to show his is.
consistency as a proof of his own consistency; and ha
only proved, cunttnued the Noble Lars+, " that I was
consistent, when the facts shall be uropeily examined
on this question. I have lead the speech if the Ls
torney-Genetal. I do not mean the speech of the
late Attorney Genoa), who, I must say, is one of the
most learned. must honest, and what is far better, the
most independent man in the profession to which I
have the honour to belong—(bear, hear), but of the
attorney General who preceded him. I have also read
the •peech made by the Noble and Learned Lord ea
the Woolsick, only so lately as io June last. Now I
ask him whether lie will not be reproached for his is.
consistency, unless be can account for any difference of
his conduct yesterday and in June last, and when be
spoke as Attorney General in the House of Commons
the-year before? If I say that the Constitution was
iaesJed when the Test and Corporation Acts were
passeJ, that very doctrine I learned from the Noble and
Learned Lard in those speeches: and if I think these can
be no security in concession, the able and satisfactory
reasons I can urge are derived from those speeches of
the Noble and Learned Lord. I am now approaching
that period of life to which no man can look [wood
without some feeling of grief and sorrow; four Kars
pears will soon to completed by me. and at that
stage of human existence there is indisputable aloha
,Icy for expecting nought but sickness and sorrow;
but this .1 ;will .say. that I truss; such at least has
'been my conduct, that I may listen without self.
septoach to all that can be said affecting my character.
.1 caunot, hie wore', bliss myself to that der ee of apathy
which would enable me to hear wit accusers without
pain. The imputations throats out against me I will
not repeat : I will not expose myself to the agony I
should feel were Ito repeat them. lam confident that
1 d i net deserve them, aid speaking in the presence
of Peers and men of honour, they will give me credit
for not deserving them"—(Heat, hear). But proceeding
to the matter more immediately before the House, ,
he should :err first to the Irish Act of 1791: with
that Act he had officially nothing to do. It was
introduced into the House of Comftons while he
was a Member of it, by a Noble Lord at the teble
(Itedesdale); and it bad that sort of support from hies•
certainly, which was due to his Noble Friend, with whom
he had lived for somewhat more than half a century on
terms of regard, confidence, and affection. What was
that Act ? It was to relieve Roman Catholics from the
penal statutes; and here be must take the liberty if
asserting that there was not that man breathing who
could justly charge him with a disinclination to relieve
them hom the penal statutes. In many instances, sad
to a most unjust degree, they were auxiliary of the pet-
lacy of the Settlement of 1658. Then came the Agri
1795, and what was that ? It was likewise a Bill d '
Relief; and no man had ever supposed or argued that ths
penal statutes were to be perpetual. Thls was followed by
the panne 1794—the Scotch Act—and an intimatim •
had been given that be was concerned in that law. de
bad the honour of attending at their Lordships' bar, larl
almost every Scotch cause from an early rend; sag,
bad found that be knew so little of the law of fiesitheC
without Intense application, that he was obliged to leave
the Bill to the Lord Advocate. and to the tatter of the•
Noble Viscount opposite.. They bad then a very Ai'
Lord-Advocate, who was a very pod Scotch Hwy':-
and in the execution of his official duties be bad the' •
assistance of the. late Lord Melville. He had donot I
fore 'tittle or no concern in that Bill; but be VA
ready to admit that he gave it his assent. He did nit
interfere; from a thorough conviction that it Was is
better bands. and that be should only embarrass 10? •
Isis advice.- He was nut surprised that the Noble Led •
'pen the Woolsatk should imagine that be did at.
ere, because he was so much better a Scotch lan°
hat he would not have failed to give his advice db sear'
. If occasion.. Ile now arrived at the time when ke bat.'
he honour to have the Great Seal entrusted to bias'
fhe great object of his professional life had been to be
;Pet:Justice ct the Common Pleas; and when his lets
tearable:lnd teemed Sovereign had called him PO'
me.ediat,ly to Iris-peeweee and service, he .it 07
eat be did nut obey that call without some lalatiall“, n
the year 1804 be took upon himself the duties of 10°r4 '
:Itancellor. and in the diScharge of them remained lo 7.7
eats, and duting.drat period few men had been espy
o more übluquy. He met that elloriuy by the most ca'

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