Star.
London, England, 1810-05-15 00:00:00

'durance. There might be many eases in which the an the imaitt t fur but ke did not
people might say the acts of the House were pant I present Address.
endurance. If they had a person on the rack, and Mr. CEEEVEY did not admit the
the tortures of which proved his death, he might Admiralty to be the property of the -
very naturally, during the continuance of his torments, wing that when the Civil List was
say it was past endurance; and could any one deny ihundred thousand pounds, every other
it? When the taxes were collected in such an arbitrary I surrendered. It could not unquestionahl
manner as they were at present, could the people, when ;in the cootemplatien of any one
expressing their incapacity to pay them, be blamed that,lih might by
accidentidesthat have comerevenue,sevenintoor
for saying it was past endurance ? He thought not, ng
It was very natural for them to say so, because they ' the Crown. His Majesty, in the
felt it; and if they petitioned to be relieved, what his reigns had given evidence, of his
other language could they use to express their feel- on this point, by stating that he had
ings more appropriate than that it was past endur- counts on this subject to be laid lief(
ante ? Another point mentioned by the Right Ho. and that the balances should be appli
nourahle Gentleman was, that which mentioned the ties of the State. This question w;
illegality of the late proceedings. Was it to be won- I the House on a motion of his Honourab
dered at that a gentleman who thought them illegal ; Francis Burdett), who, he hoped,
should say so He, for his own part, had no doubt it forward. At present, he would prefer
of the legality of the Speaker's warrant, where it was Majesty to his Declaration in the y,
issued for proper purposes ; but he had great doubts !incomes and gross sums so frequent,
as to the legality of an instrument, enforced on the different branches of the Royal Famil
principle of actual law, which had not the authority that the public expenditure did not
of any other than that branch of the Legislature more than 10 millions, whereas it
which issued it. Since the determination of the Com- millions ; to request of his Majesty
mittee, and the resolution of the House to plead to mind his Declaration in the early part
the action, the subject must be brought before Court, and, in conformity thereto, to order
and if that Court should determine against it, it must sums thus arising to he applied to
then be allowed to be illegal. He thoughts there- the State.
I fore, that to reject a petition, on account of such an ' Mr, HUSKISSON did not agree
expression, would be going too far, and should there-. Revenues of the Crown were taken
fore vote that it do lie on the table. , Civil List was increased. Neither
Mr. BRAND said, he conceived it was the un- ;itch an Address as that now proposed
doubted right of every subject of tleis realm to ques- to his Majesty, unless in the case of -
don the legality of any and every proceeding that aid of the Civil Fund. If, however.
t
ook place in that House, and he hoped the Housil that the Civil List, or this Fund,
would never consent to reject any Petition because ; applied in aid of the Civil List, was
the Petitioner questioned the right which the House defraying of the annuity now sough
might at any time think proper to assume. He should he thought they were the proper fin
therefore vote for the petition lying on the table. the annuity ought to granted.
Mr. RYDER thought the expression, 66 such treat--I be
was admitted, that the King had at,
mentof the peoplepast all endurance" fully sefEcient to this fund, a sum equal to the grantin;
warrant the rejection of the Petition, and if the House' If so, he must say, the charge ought
permitted such insulting language, they would deserve 'on the public. He should however
to receive it.
charge eras wise, proper and laudable,
_

_.
A division took place—tor receiving the Petition , had not had the means.
32—Against it 91. Mr. R. DUNDAS said, that the
SOUTH WALES cowman. never been intended to bear charges
On our returning to the Gallery, we found this had been an application to pay
Mr. H. SMITH speaking on the subject of refer- Civil List, then lie thought it would
ring a Petition of the South Wales Collieries to a ! per to call for an account of this kin,
Committee. He stated that many parts of the West ' not to be called for in connection -
of England felt a serious injury from the advanced i Brunswick's pension. He would oppose
price of coals, in consequence of the exclusive right Mr. HUSKISSON explained.
of Newport, and one or two other ports of the Bristol Mr. BROUGHAM would not
Channel, to supply coals to Bristol and other towns occasion for calling for an account
without paying Port Duty. He wished that the in- was when a deficiencr should be
juries complained of should at all events be enquired taken place in the Civil List. The
into, and therefore he moved that the Petition should stitutionally the right at any time '
be referred to a select Committee. account—for if a Soverei should
This was opposed by Lord ARTHUR SOMER. happened in the reign of-Charles I
SET, and many other Gentlemen, ott the ground the sake of these droits, he might
that from time immemorial Newport and other make himself independent of Parliament.
Iports above these islands which are supposed to be was so anomalous in the British
at the very mouth of the Severn, might send coals contrary to its spirit, that it ought
without duty, as it was considered inland navigation, with the utmost jealousy. It was
whereas every thing that lay beyond these islands were to produce an account of the amount
supposed to be on the sea, and that therefore port of the fund.
duties ought to be paid. On the faith of this ancient Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE opposed
custom of the River Severn, large sums had beat ex- on the ground that it ought not to h
pended in mines, in the county of Monmouth ; as , the. Duke of Brunswick's pension,
also in making the Monmouth Canal. It was con- I ward at all,, it ought to be distinct
tended, therefore, that granting the Petition would i objects.
be an injustice to those who had thus sunk their pro- ' --Mr. JOHNSTONE supported
perties on the faith of the existing law. I Mr. TIERNEY said, that not
Mr. DA VIES GIDDY, Mr. ADAM, and other Gen- , had been advanced against it except
tleaien, supported the Petition, and thought, that i man, who said, that the acceding to
when so many districts of the country complained of I create an unfavourable impression
suffering a serious injury, it was but justice to them ithe mind of our enemy. This argument
to enquire into the cause of their complaints. The tto every subject, and if acted upon
House then divided. House a great deal of trrouble.
For the Petition 74—Against it 63—. Majority 11. The House divided—For the motion
DROITS OF ADMIRALTY. it 103—Majority 19.
Mr. TIUNEY brought forward his motion on Mr. DENT, when strangers were
this subject. Regretting as he did the misfortunes of stating his reasons for the revival
the Duke of Brunswick, for whom, considering the Committee. A person had come
liberal manner in which the House had lately con- had commenced, and had been
ducted itself towards the Crown, he had hoped there contended was irregular.
might have been some other way of providing than The SPEAKER. thought, that
by an application to Parliament, lie Celt it his duty to cumstanees the Committee ought,
submit to the House the proposition of which lie had dered.
given notice. It was for Ministers to say, if the money
of the country was to be granted merely because it
was asked.-410,000 a year had lately been grpted
to the Duchess Dowager of Brunswick, but he felt
himself called on to hesitate before he agreed that
£lOOO a year should now, in addition, be laid on the
people of this country. He had no objection that tht
annuity might be fixed and certain, that the Royal
Duke should have the grant secured to him from the
Consolidated Fund ' • but at the same time if another
fund could be found from which the Consolidated

Fund might lie recruited to an equal amount, be pre-
sumed the House was called on to see that this was
not omitted. This he was certain might be done from
the Droits of the Admiralty, and he could not figure
a more legitimate or appropriate way in which they
could be applied, this being for a purpose not uncon-
nected with the Crown, but in aid of a distant branch
of the King's own faNily. He accordingly moved
an Address to his Majesty, expressive of the concern
of that House for the misfortunes of the Royal Duke,
and of their desire to alleviate them, with which view
they had granted him an annuity out of the Consoli-
dated Fund; but at the same time begging to repre.
sent to his Majesty the burdens under which the peo-
ple laboured, which it must be the wish of his Ma.
, jesty and that of that House, if they could not
dimi-
nish, not unnecessarily to augment ; and therlfore
praying that his Majesty would be pleased to order a
sum to be paid from the Droits of the Admiralty fov
the use of the Consolidated Fund, to make good said
1 annuity.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
thought the proposition perfectly new, and that it
would be less offensive to move a General Address
' to his Majesty, praying him, out of the Droits of the
Admiralty to make provision for the exigencies of the
State. By the Address now moved, the Right Ho.
nontable Gentleman first took credit for the liberality
of the 'House, and then turned round and asked his
Majesty to pay for it. Without regard to any tie of
connection, the Duke of Brunswick had on this coun-
try all that claiM of national liberality which those
who had lost their dominions in earlier periods of
the French Revolution had experienced. He did not
mean to say that 'the fund alluded to wai not sidll-
..

STAMP OFFICE.
Mr. WHITBREAD, according
move for correspondence relative •
He dwelt on the necessity of reform
ceeded to enumerate several items
held in his hands. Articles which
fling in themselves, but at the same
cone under the observation of the
He chiefly wished to call the attention
to the Stamp department in Scotland,
tional allowances and salaries had '
rious officers by the order of tke
every tribute of praise to the exertions
the head of the deFartmcnt, but
had not suficient power to enforce
which he ought to be invested hy
iury. He concluded by moving
before the House, Copies of the
tween the Boards of Treasury
subject of the revision of the
Stamp Office up to the present ,
count of the Appointments in the
of warrants thereof, together wi
Removals and Supercessions of
creases and Diminution of their Salaries.
Mr. WHARTON was of opini
pondence alone would answer every
.every thing else relative to the sill-.
He dwelt largely on the character
vices of Mr. Ned ; but acknow!
of a proper establishment in Scotian,
Mr. HUSKISSON stated that
wish to enforce the regular and
Qf the Clerks, who he said were .
paid. He observed, that the present
, owing to the ill health which was
*r. Neel's exertions.
Mr. W. SMI'T'H said, that the
generally employed emplandosoyemdeitnimOeffis, Offices
idn°
more than two ; it would be proper,
minish their number.
The CHANCELLOR of the
, read from the Repdrt a passage.
commended thq necessity 4 diumishing the

t
ber
311nin:ion
lhe,itiluidtoent hseos settled
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s o
ptK
before
Friend (I,
a;1,11,‘ seket...serwai
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ibelet
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d
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i.
of thus
be
etPoyerotip: euledat ya
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ti
redoastwti exceeded,,
hlooenPea:l6lataiebtlgo3rmhi l rt
hes.' ;er
anni) Re' et
it:citk°:i n oea3d4l t • .
e
ti
e
4eriofgt
hiavuthatr,dn. t
Civil
toi
adequateiacopvihb
3yufdpoltiet
grants
Lfa t nu ht
4.k4rhe,,rnnyetibnestin.liaecYotsl,vose4ialu ytltid°lt,etuipb et that
thee'lgsitt
oliteoftfr:trileoot..
t
p
as
ledotort
s'►tut si
agreelndg havet
theseh been
period,
rhio
du
o
osuwinlit.thogfthe Duke
Idh
n House had
oPeaPosetanythe
h
eb:o cstaal
It to a certain de
rliament. Thistu
Constitution_, and
it to be watched o
'as due to the pu.
ount and applica
opposed the ma
to be connected vi
on. If brought t
inct from such c•-
d the motioiy
n a 'single ar..,,,
tpt that of one
to the motion w,
m on out resources',
gument would app
Ton would give
motion
were admitted,
al of the Stock-m
e in after the divi
:a counted, which
hat under these
ht to be revived.--0
ling to notice, rose
e to the Stamp O
!form there, and pr'
ans from a report
lich he said were
ame time should ba
the Commissioners.
mention of the H.
Scotland, where ad.
ad been granted to •
the Board. He .
!xertions of Mr.
at complained that
enforce reform, •
by the Board of T •
ig 4, That therein
he Correspondence
r and Stamps, on
e management of
t period; also an At
se Office, and the d
with Accounts of
if OffiCers, and all I
r Salaries."
pinion that the c -
every purpose—alm.
subject was perso
cter and excellent
Avledged the n
otlan Q.
:hat it was Mr. V
d adequate atten.
ere shamefully tied
resent delay was part
ras' the consequence
the time the Clerks
do not exceed four .
[a the present case,
roper, therefore, w
the EXCHEQU •
tge which strongly
hing the