Star.
London, England, 1810-03-29 00:00:00

himself in the hands of the
had determined for him.
nothing to do with the course
But the argument of the -
who had brought forward I
the strongest ground agar
Honourable Gentleman hat

tion was of graver and greater importance
twenty Expeditions, such as that to the Scheldt, or
to any other part of the world. In this sentiment
of the Honourable Gentleman he coincided—and if
no other argument could be suggested for proceeding
iminediately with the discussion, he should, upon that
alone, refuse his -assent to the adjournment. He
should not 10116u/the Honourable Gentleman through
the various statements he had_gone intb, nor the. able
arguments, as he conceived tbem to bei whiCh had
i been urged by him.. He had humane word more to
iteld, and he hoped the House would believe him as
sincere in:the de'laration as he believed the nonour.
able Gentleman to be in all that Itad Fallen from him.
The Honourable Gentleman bad stated, previously
to his making the motion, .that he (Mr. Lethbridge)
had lent himself an instrument in this business to his
Majesty's Ministeri. If he had so-lent himself, he
should never cease to regret. it as long as he lived.—
He had not lent himself to any man, or, to any serof
men. The motion he brought forward had origi-
nated in his own mind, and he had been induced to
engage in the proceeding, upon considerations of
his own.
Mr CURWEN was ready to assert, that he should
have deprecated the discussion of such a luestion, and
at such a moment. It was impossible that, at a time
when the House was so wholly 'occupied with the con-
; sideration of another; grave and momentous subject,
that they could be in a state to pronounce a cool and
deliberate decision upon this question. On a motion
such as that which the House was then discussing, it
was highly desirable that jieither individual feelings of
I partiality, or party considerations, should influence
their judgment. That 'was not a moment to bring
such feelings into a discussion upon a subject like the
present ; and he should call upon the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite (the Chancellor of the Exche-
quer), to pause, and to consider the consequences
that might tesult from adopting any precipitate course
. on the present occasion. It was impossible for that
Right Hon. Gentleman not to see the consequences
that must inevitably flow from• any hasty proceeding
• upon a question arising out of a breach of privilege,
which might alarmingly agitate the public mind from
• one end of the country to the other. For himself,
he could conscientiously state that he had not yet
made-up his mind upon the question ; and if he
• should be . compelled to vote on that occasion, he
must say that it was absolutely impossible for him
to vote for the Motion. Were lie to vote, for that
. Motion, he should be bound to vote also for the
• strong reprehension of the House being expressed
respecting the author of the paper upon which the
Motion was founded. But the Matter would not
rest there. -The House would be bound to resort to
• some strong ulterior measures ; and before they
should be driven to that awful necessity, it behoved
, them well and seriously to consider whether the paper_
complained of really contained matter calling for the
adoption of measures, from which might arise such a
feeling in the country, as he, for one, would- most
- sincerely deprecate. If forced to proceed, therefore,'
0; in this instance, it was his intention, nay, he must
be compelled to veto againstagainst the Motion. If time,
however, should be allowed to Gentlemen to' make
themselves acquainted with the whole of the case, he
was persuaded that in such a case there could ekist
,but one opinion upon the subject, and that the deci-
sion of the House would be unanimous. -As to the
right of the House to commit for contempt, that was a
privilege which it necessarily must have ; but it was
also a privilege which should seldom be exercised,
never ex:.-ept in cases where it was actually necessary
to assert the dignity and authority of the House.
All he asked Of' the House was, that he should not
be pressed to a decision in the unprepared state in
which he felt himself to decide justly. It would have
been much better that this paper had never been no-
ticed, as in tivt case, lie conceived that it Would have
soon sunk into oblivion ; but as it had been brought
under the cognizance of the House, the honour of the
, House required that some step should be taken re-
specting it. With this opinion impressed upon his
mind, it was his wish not to be forced to a crude and
premature decision. And if many other Gentlemen
were, like himself, ready to avow that they were not
prepared to come to a vote on this question, he
would put it to the House whetber it was consistent
with justice or decency to force them to it. Never
had any questiOn been discussed in that House,
which called for more temper, more consideration,
or was -more intimately connected with the honour
and character of the House. He should again
therefore conjure the Right Honourable Gentlemen
not to hurry on the-question to a decision. A little
time would clear away the difficulties with which
it was at present enveloped, and lead to an opening
tojneasures, which might perhaps substitute concilia-
tion for severity. In his own opinion, the Hon. Ba-
ronet was in some degree deserving of the reprehen-
sion of the House, but-that might be so managed as
neither to compromise the dignity of the House, nor
transgress the bounds of jestice and moderation. He
would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman how lie could
answer, at a period when unanimity was more than I
ever desirable, for the irritation and heated feelings
which any other course would be likely to produce in
the country ? If, notwithstanding, the Hon. Gentle-
man should persist in pushing on the decision, on him
should rest the responsibility for the consequences.—
He was well aware of the sound, mind and good
sense of the people of this country ; and though they
might be led astray by deception or passion, he was
convinced that, ifthat House would shew that it was
actuated only by a sense of its own dignity, without
any regard to more partial and confined considera-
tions, the nation would cheerfully acquiesce in its de-
cision. But in order to produce this effect, it was
necessary to prove to the public that in the exercise
of its power or privileges, that House was not influ-
enced by any feeling against an individual, but really
,consulting its own dignity and character. On every -
ground, therefore, it was his opinion that they ought
to proceed calmly, deliberately, and dispassionately.
The H6use could but recollect, that, in consequence
of being led away by a contrary feeling, its journals
had been disgraced by proceedings, which, though
subsequently expunged by a succeeding House, would.

-

. . _
. -
Aiseteetk tiptit that which had att. netioned why the sattit tittle should not be ailowed now,
alluded to the proceedings against Mr. when the Ch ~.r allor of the Exchequer and the Lord
which, by giving way to the influence of Viscount Ca th reagh were chaiged with a breach of
hostility to the individual, the House had the privileges ofthat Houses -.The Right Hon. Gentle.
: into a course of proceeding subversive of man wo,ild recollect, that when that eiarge had been
tamental • principles of its constitution.— first broug!lt forward, he rose in his place, and after
?ornament had afterwards ekpunged from stating that he was taken by surprise, made liii boW;
journals the record of 'these oppressive and uncon- and retired ; after which,a delay of five days was al-
stitutional measures, still the .remembrance of what lowed before lie made-his defence. He had voted in
then passed sureited, arid should be a warning to all the minority on that occasion ; and to the decision of
'future Parliamentscisot to give way to such feelings, the House in that- instance, and the conduct of his
or precipitately to decideypon questions of a•similay Majesty's Ministers, they were to look for the &gra.,
description. He had been ,ane of those who voted dation of the House of Commons in the:opinion of
against all the arbitrary measures Avhich had been re- the people. . The House would alio recollect the case'
sorted to on that occasion ; and, ii rile same pritt- when Viscount Castlereagh. was charged with bar-
ciple, now besought the Right Hon. Gentleman not tering for a seat in: that House, and was -sheltered by
to press precipitately forward the ultimite decision the amendment of a Right lion. Gentleman (Mr.;
upon a question of such importance to the reputation Canning) not then in his place. That proceeding;
and honour of that House. He trusted the example coupled with the resolution of 1779, which made
to which he had alluded 'would never be imitated.— such a practice a• breach of the privileges of that
If the Honse were to come to a decision,it should be House, had contlibuted.to the degradation of Parliaz.
such a decision as would be consistent with justice to ment. -He begged also to remind the House of the
the individual, and to the dignity of the House. No threat respecting the dissolutiOn of Parliament;
such decision could, in the present instance, he impar- thrown out by the same Right Hon. Gentleman
tially or dispassionately pronounced. As a Member shortly after be came into office, and of the realising-
of that House, therefore? who, since he had the ,ho- of that threat shortly after by. the dissolution of Par-
nour of a seat in it, had never been-influenced by any liament ; and then to ask, to whom was the degrada-
feelings of private attachment or party interests—who tion of Parliament to be attributed ? (Hear, hear.)
had uniformly, on all occasions, and under.ull circum- On the present question then, of so much importance
stances, given his-vote to the best of :his judgment, to the independence of that House, and the interests
and according to the dictates of hi; conscience, with of the nation, lie asked for time to consider it .suffi-
a view to "the common interests of the country—who viently.. The same. application he hail made twenty-
,felt himself unprepared at present to give any vote four hours before, and to the period that had since
satisfactory to his own mind, but who was anxious intervened, he hall not had time to consider the
to pronounce judgMent on the real merits of,the case, subject. In this respect the Honourable Gentle-
he called upon the House of Commons to allow a man opposite, and his Honourable Friend, had the
small portion of time for the more mature consideta- advantage of him: He had marked the passages
tion of this important question. ' : specified by the Honourable Mover, but had not yet
Mr. OWEN hoped that the House would decide been able to lock into-them. .In this situation, he
without farther delay the question under discussion. could not think of deciding von extracts made by
T'he real question now was, whether the House was every Gentleman, however honourable, without
to suffer itself to be intimidated—whether any man . being able to refer to the context. The House would
should henceforth' be at liberty to reflect upon its recollect the nature of the speech of the gallant Gene-
rights and privileges ? He trusted therefore that the ral •(Cranford) last night, who had produced a c:nr-
House would have the courage to assert its unques- paign of his own, instead-of the imaginary carnpai a
tionable rights, by not deferring the decision of the of the Noble Lard, and concluded with an Amend-
question befora them. • lie felt astonishment at the ment expressive of the approbation of the c nduct c:f
Amendment which had been moved ; and he was his Majesty's Ministers, without any one document
still more astonished at hearing the Right Honour- or argument produced in their justification. Whilst
able Gentleman ( Mr. Sheridan) whom he had been the H.monrahle and gallant General was proceeding
accustoined to listen to with respect upon all consti- through. the cletails of his campaign, he could not
tutional subjects, represent the present as a question but think that every Honourable Officer who had
Of no urgent nature or importance— (Hear, hear.)— served on the Expedition would have wished fa.
He could assure Gentlemen that he was nett to be in- • mountains to cover or seas to overwhelm him, in or.
timidated from doing his duty. The Right Honour- der to escape the indignation of the public—(Ear,
able Gentleman had said that the question was not hear.) When charged with a wish to delay the dis-
of any urgency.- The Honourable Gentleman who cussion nn the conduct of the Expedition, the Right
followed had however stated, that, in his opinion, this Honourable Gentleman had referred to his conduct
question wasof much more moment than jie discus.sion during-the whole of the investigaxion to prove the
of the merits of the Expedition to Walcheren. The contrary. He was ready to _admit that the Noble
quzstion, in Isis mind, whether his Majesty's Ministers Lord, not then in his place, had conducted himself
were culpable or not, in the conduct of_ that Expedi- : with great propriety throughout the whole of these
tion, was not to be put in Competition with a oes. • proceedings ; but when the Right Honourable Gen-
tion, whether the House of Commons was to remain tleman referred to the papers not yet delivered from
• independent, whether it was to preserve its privileges . the Printer's as a cause of delay, he must observe,
and•authority, or to be beat down by personal inti- . that whatever might be the abilities of that Right Ho-
midation ? Whether such attempts were to proceed'. nourable Gentleman, he could do but one thing at a
from Members of that House or persons out of it, he : time. It was the opinion of a great man, that that
:trusted the House had courage enough to repress was the manner in which all things were done. As
I them He agreed that this question was of ten times they were not pressed for time as. to the present ques.
the importance of the discussion respecting the Ex- tion, there was no ground for interrupting that in
tpedition. But the argument which had been urged which the House had been previously engaged.—
for delay appeared to him extraordinary, as if indeed ; When the notice of the motion had been given ty the
the delay of a few hours before they should come to Honourable Gentleman, it was stiff red to lie over for
a decision on the discussion respecting the Expedi- twenty-fonr hours. Why then not lie over for a hinges
60n, would let thy evidence out of the minds of Gen- ! period ? He gave the Hon. Gentleman ( Mr. Leth-
tlemen. The statement in the paper which was the ;bridge) credit when he said that he had notlent him-
foundation of the charge, that the Bill.of Rights was ; self to any man in the course lie had taken ; but he
made a bill of wrongs, was stifficieat to justify the i must be allowed to add, that the Honourable Mem-
House in proceeding. But that was not all ; the pa- ber •had allowed himself to be induced by the Chan-
per stated that the exercise of the privileges of the 1 cellor of the Exchequer=-(Hear, hear.) The Hon.
House of Commons was subversive of the laws and Member was willing to allow time, but the Right
Constitution of the Country. Was that a proposi- I Honourable Gentleman had availed himself of this
than to he passed over with-- impunity ? which they I question as a Godsend—(Hear, hear)—in the same
should not seize the earliest opportunity of deciding i manner as ili drowning man would catch at a straw. It
upon ? It would have a very injurious effect upon was an old saying, that many things happened between
the minds of the people, if the House of Commons , the cup and the lip, as also did many things happen
should imprison a person, not a member, for a libel, I between theilvtlter and the gallows ! (Hear, hear,
and not dare to notice one of its own Members for I hear.) —He did not mean to say, if he was to go to the
the same offence. The decision upon this question 'extremity, that the Right Hon. Gentleman was en•
would, he was confident, increase those sentiments of I titled-to be beheaded, neither had he meant to apply
attachment to the Constitution which hit knew to exist the allusion to him. Gentlemen might recollect the
is the different parts of the country with which he case of a soldier, who, on tlieretreat in Spain, had been
was acquainted. Ile thought the p issage in which tried by a Court Martial for some heinous offence,and
it was asserted that ~ that House lorded it over the sentenced to be shot. The detachment of cavalrywas
King and the People," was a gross libel upon the drawn up for this execution ; but, fortunately, the
House of Commons. .He trusted, therefore, diat the enemy came► in sight ; the cavalry escaped, the cul-
House would do its duty, and neither be intimidated prit was put on a horserand fled with the rest, and so
by a fear of the people, nor influenced by respect for the whole ended. As he trusted the House of Com-
any individual, to defer the consideratiOn of so im- mons would never shew any fear, so also he hoped
portant a qaestion. that it would not manifest either favour or partiality
/!Ir. WHITBREAD begged pardon of the Hon. to any person.—(Hear, Hear.)—He thought the
Gentleman who had just spoken, if he could not, in House, by acquitting the Right Honourable Gentle
-
'the outset of what he had to say, expresiliimself with man last Session, had shewn such
partiality, and
the same clearness in his own word.;, as by adopting thereby contributed to that degradation into which
'the language of his Right Hon. Friend, and saying, some persons supposed the public to consider it as
that he had nener risen to speak on a subject of greater fallen. The Right.Honourable Gentleman had cer-
importance. Such were the words of his Right Hon. tainly been charged with abreach of the privileges of
Friend, which that Hon. Gentleman had greatly mis- that House. Lord Castlereagh, however,
bad, and
stated, when he said that his Right Hon. Friend had if not for the gentlemanly terms in which he made his
represented the question as one of a light nature. It excuse, which disarmed the resentment of the House,
was because the subject was not light but momentous and the Amendment of a Right Honourable &lid&
that he rose then to ask, as he had done last night, for man (Mr. Canning) which gave rise to the coinage
some delay before he should be called upon for his of a new word, in the language of the Right Honour-
vote. In justice to the Hon. Member who originated able Gentleman, "- lest a mistakeable record should
the motion, he must say, that it was not his wish at appear upon the Journals," he must have been con-
first to proceed precipitately with the question. But victed. But the Right Hon. Gentleman desired that
to the Right Hon. Gentleman over the way (the the House should not suffer itself to he intimidated.
Chancellor of the Exchequer), who was mainly irate- For himself he could say, that he had never at any
rested in the question already under iscussion, a time been . afraid to avow his sentiments. Yet at
question, which the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat the same tiMe that -he would not be intimidated
down, considered comparatively light, WAS to be as- from expressing his sentiments, he would not be inn-
cribed the precipitancy with which the discussion was midated to act with a take courage, or to do a thing
pushed forward. The question which had so long in order to shew that he derst do it.—(Thar, liar.)
'occupied the whole attention of that House's° far from nor to do any thing, which, In his best conviction. h.!
considering light, he regarded-as one of the greatest should not think right. If he were the only one who
moment, as well to his Majesty's Ministers as to him. i was not, and had not an Opportunity to be acquaint-
Self. (Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches.) He ed with the paper, then be might be the only one who
despised such feelings as appealed to give rise to the should vote for the adjournment, and en a ground
cheer, and would repeat that the question was of mo- which to him appeared unanswerable ; but. he h nf.
ment to him, because it.was desirable to.every honest another ground, arising out of the good feelings of
man to be enabled to be in full possession of every the Honourable. Members oppoo-o (the Mov and
thing that could enable him to form an impartial Seconder.) When he heard these Honourable Gentle-
judgment. The House would hive him credit, he was men, in. stating their sentiments, iii...iue to coii . -A-
cne, when he said that the question before it was i tions in. that House, and the spirit a" Jacobins' - "ut
momentous, thOugh not pressing. He saw no reason iof it, he could scarcely believe that he was nctlistm,

.

House, and that ihe.. • . ere tided cl
Further than tinobt; • • *nil. 1!e
3rse that hac,..beett
e "Honourable Gen feelings of h
the Arrreasdpient furnish •; - carried
ainst agreing to it. The the fundarr
had stated, that this, ques. Though Pai
1 greater importance
_than its journals