Star.
London, England, 1821-06-16 00:00:00

CROWN LANDS.

Sir E. KNATCH BULL said, he held in his hand
a Petition from several individuals, inhabitants of
different Parishes in Kent, comilaining of very seri-
ous hardships under which they laboured, in conse-
quence of large tracks of Crown I.ands which lay in
these parishes being let to individuals, who, because
the lands they thus held v:cre Crown Lands, were
exempt from the burthens of rees and taxes. This
was a serious injury to other individuals residing in
these parishes, as these lands brought an additional
burthen oa the palish at the time that those Who oc-
cupied them, and derived profits from their produce,
bore no part of the parochial burthens.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
there was no peculiar hardship in the case of these
Petitioners. The same circumstances attached to all
'Crown Lands. The exemptions were given for the
encouragement of the gro‘‘th of Timber, and for the
benefit of our Navy.
_ _ _

Mr. CARING oLjccted to this mode of encr.a-
rafting the growth of timber, at the expense of indi-
viduals. Timber for the istiblic service might much
better be obtained from the merchants.

Sir ISAAC COFFIN said, the lion. Gentleman'

was :juke mistaken. For the last 300 years the gre:t
proportion of timber used fin• cur N.tvy had b'ecn
taken from the Kings Forests and Lands.

After some obserVations from the Outwit:twit of
the EXCHEQUER. Ivho declared the anxiety of Go-
vernment to afford :di the relicf in their power to the
individuals in question,
Sir E. KNATCIII.II3I.I, expressed his readiness to
leave the question in the hands of Government. _

The Petition was read, ordered to lic on the table,
and to be printed.

IRISH REVENUE BILL.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the F.XCITE•
QUER for .the House going into a Committee on the
Irish Revenue Enquiry Bill,
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, be understood that
this Bill was to antlioriso the appointment of Corn.
inissioners to enquire into the financial :,buses which
existed in Ireland. Now, unless the persors to be
appointed were men of taunt, indtpendt..nce, and pa-
triotism—men determined to investigate, and to com-
bat with the difficulties which they would meet with
in that investigation, no good result follow
their labours. The hospitality of the inhabitants of.
Ireland would be too apt to shew the best side of the
;pictnre ; and the person :cut to iastaute thlc encriry•

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nnless they were indkiduals of the character he had
come back with a very false colour-
ing on their minds, as regarded the real state of thel
country the were sent to visit. If the provisions of
this Bill, however, were carried faithfully into effect,
he augured much good from its operation, and there-,
fore he would give it his support.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER also
anticipated much good from the operation of the Bill
now under the consideration of the House.
Mr. CALCR AFT hoped no Member of Parlia-
ment, or any individual holding other places; would
be appointed to this Commission.
The House then went into a Committee.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
proceeded to state the outline of his Bill. A Com-
mission was to be appointed ; but the Bill gave them
no compensation. The Clown had nothing to do
with compensation; • but the Commission would
depend on Parliament, and not on the Crown for a
reward for their labours.
Mr. 11UNIE was at a loss to see the necessity there
was for having five Commissioners in this case. He
also objected to some of the persons named as Com-
missioners. The Vice-Piesident of the Board of Trade,
for instance, who could not attend to his duties here,
and yet be in Ireland. Another individual, Colonel
Barre, also a Member of this House, he objected to.
He had the highest respect for that Gentleman, but
could not consent that any Member of the House
should hold a share in this Commission, unless such
Members would pledge themselves not to receive any
remuneration either now or hereafter. He must also
allude to another individual, Mr. F. Lewis, who stood
in the same situation. He had no apprehensions as
regarded his Hon. Friend not doing his duty, but he
could not consent that his Hon. Friend, as a Member
of Parliament, should be drawn, in the most distant
manner, within the influence of the Crown. Another
circumstance lie must advert to: if the Commis-
sioners were to have remuneration, he would rather

the sum should be named in the Bill.
Mr. F. L&WIS said, as he had been alluded to, he
must say a sew words. He must declare his readiness
to devote himself to the service of the Public at all
times and in all places, to the extent of his abilities, •
and that without fee or reward. But he must, at the
same time ask, was this to be adopted as a general
rule? for it must be understood that exception could
not be made to his particular instance, either in jos-.
tice to himself or the Public. He would ask his
Hon. Friend whether, then having served the Public
faithfully, honestly, and honourably, without fee or
reward, he believed that afterwards receiving a re-
muneration would render him incapable of dis-
charging his duty honourably in future? He could
not entertain such an idea generally of mankind;
and if he could fir a moment entertain such a sus-
picion of himself, he would pray that the earth
should now open and swallow him, as a disgrace to
human nature. Having said thus much, he would
only say, that as to the appointment, he was as in-
different about it as a man could possibly be. He
would very readily vote for any other Member who
should be proposed ; for he must say, he was of
opinion that the Commission should be constituted
of Members of the House, to give it due weight
and information.
Mr. WALLACE said, as lie held a situation and
salary already, he should not expect any remunera-
tion for this appointment, though, as a general posi-
tion, he must object to the proposition that Members
of that House should receive no remuneration for
their public services.
Mr. CALCRAFT observed, that as to the Right
Hon. Gentleman undertaking the duties of this Com-
mission without salary, the Right Hon. Gentleman,
had a salary already, and the Public were entitled to
his services. He was, however, most ready to pay
the Right Hon. Gentleman's expenses. The Right
Hon. Gentleman had talked on the subject of this
appointment, as if it was one of infinite danger and
peril; as if it was an expedition into an enemy's
country, where he was to be called on to face danger
at the cannon's mouth ; whereas, all he would have
to do, would be to take a trip over to Ireland in a
steam packet—(A laugh __As to the appointment of
his lion. Friend (Mr. F. Lewis), it pained him to have
the duty of making any observations upon it. His
Hon. Friend had talked of doing his duty indepen- '
dently and fearlessly. He had always seen his Hon.
Friend so discharge his duty; but he had never seen
his Hon. Friend in place—(Hear).---His Hon. Friend
bad seen, and he (Mr. Calcraft) had seen the effect
invariably produced by place upon Gentlemen, who,
up to the period of taking office, had performed
their duty fearlessly, honestly, and honourably. His
Iron. Friend seemed confident of being an exception
to the general rule. He hoped, he believed, his Hon.
Friend would prove that exception ; but if he did—
if his Hon. Friend should not act with his Right
Hon. Friends opposite—if he should vote.unluckily
on a Malt Tax or an Agricultural Horse Tax, he
would not hold his place longs—(Hear, hear).—And,
'with all the respect he had for his Hon. Friend, he
must take the sense of the House on his appointment.
—As to the other appointment, Mr. Harris was, he
understood, Auditor of the Civil List ; he was the
person whose duty it was to check .the expenditure
of that department ; and he would ask, was it right
that he should hold a situation and a salary distinct
from that office? There was another Commissioner,
Mr. Lushington, a brother of the Secretary to the
Treasury. Had he au official situation ? What,
none? Then he was extremely unlucky In having
a.hrother in the Treasury, and himself without a si-
tuation. He had heard that Mr. Lushington was a
Coal Meter. He should, however, take the sense of
the House on the appointment of his Hon. Friend to
this Commission.

Mr. F. ROBINSON said, the Right Hon. Vice-
President of the Board of Trade had a great deal to
do. In the performance of this new duty that Right
Hon. Gentleman might essentially benefit the inte-
rests of trade. Their visit to Ireland might be very
pleasing ; but the cleansing the Augean Stable would
not be light or easy—(Loud cheers).—The only plea-'
sure which his Honourable Friends could derive Irom
the task, was in the consciousness of the advantages
derivable from their exertions to the Public; and the
whole of the remuneration which his Right Honour-
able colleague wished to enjoy, was the beneficial re-
sult to the Empire at large of the faithful execution
of a great national undertaking—(hear, hear).
.Lutd A. HAMILTON called the attentioreof the

House to the importance of the principle to be esta-
blished by this Bill, by which persons were to be al-
lowed to hold their seats on being appointed to new
' offices. The reason why persons accepting offices must
vacate their seats in Parliament was, that they should
go back to their constituents, in order to ascertain
their opinion as to the propriety of their accepting
such office. He could have no hesitation on which
side he should vote on this occasion. An Hon. and
Learned Friend of his had offered to accept the office
of a Commissioner to inquire into Charitable Esta-
blishments throughout the country, but, at the same
time, accompanied his offer With one to relinquish
his seat in Parliament for a temporary period.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he made that offer with-
out emolument, and therefore he did not offer to re-
linquish his seat in Parliament ; but even then he
wished to have the refusal of the situation. He had
no objection to his Hon. Friend's appointment to this
Commission, except on the principle of this being an
instance of the attempts to extend the influence of,
the Crown in that House. His Hon. Friend most
undoubtedly would not suffer this influence to have
any effect on him; but it might become a precedent
for the appointment of others, on whom it might
have strong influence.
Mr. GREN FELL said, this was not an appoint-
ment by the Crown, but by a vote, and an Act of
Parliament; and, therefore, his lion. Friend could
not be removed by the Crown, but by Parliament.
Dr. PHILLIMORE defended the appointment of
this Commission, the object of which was to inquire
into gross and monstrous abuses. This wat *a case,
of all others, calling for a Commission to carry on a
Parliamentary inquiry.
•
Mr. B.ROWNLOW supported the motion.

Sir C. LONG defended the capacity of Mr. Harris
and Mr. Blierens to fill up this Commission, they
having given their services gratuitously on the Com-
mission for inquiring into the state of the Customs.

Mr. ABERCROMBIE thought three Commis-
sioners were amply sufficient to fill up this Board.—
He should vote agai.ist any Member of Parliament,
therefore, sitting on this Board.
Mr. Clt EEVLY objected to any money of the Pub-
lic being given to another Member of Parliament.—
Last night, in voting against a Tax, he counted forty-
five Members who had public money in their pockets.
Ministers might put the whole of the public money
into the pockets of Members of Parliament on this
pi inciple—(Hear).
Mr. W. SMITH should vote against the appoint-
ment of his Hon. Friend to this situation.

Sir J. NEWPORT was satisfied, that to make the
Commissioners beneficial to the Public, their appoint-
ment should come from Parliament, and not from the
Crown. If he considered this office as one of a per-
manent kind, he would, as soon as any man, object
to the appointment of Parliamentary Commissioners;
but this was a temporary Parliamentary inquiry, and
therefore there ought to be some Members of Parlia-
ment on the Commission.

Mr. MABERLEY thought they ought to have no
more on this Commission than were, necessary to dis.,
charge the duties of this office; and, therefore, three
Commissioners were sufficient.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not think the object of this Commission could be car-
ried on effectually without joining Members of Par-
liament in it.

Mr. DENMAN objected to the clause supplying
vacancies in the Commission by death or resigna-
tion, or otherwise, by the power and influence of the
Crown, and not by the authority of that House.
Mr. C. HUTCHINSON said, the object of every
Member of that House ought to be to prevent any
increase of the influence of the Crown over Parlia-
ment or its Members.
Mr. A BERCROMBIE suggested that the number
of the Commissioners be reduced to three.
Mr. MABERLEY moved that they be reduced
to three.—The Committee then divided—
For the Motion - - 77
Apinst it
Majority - - —46

This division was in favour of the appointment of
Mr. F. lawn.
During the exclusion from the gallery, the Com.
mittee again divided—
For the appointment of Mr. WAVIAce
as one of the Commissioners -
Against it - - -
Majority

- SI

- 25
- -58

Mr. HUME objected to the clause making the ap-
pointment last for two yearl/4 and moved that it
should be but for one year.
The motion was negatived without a division. The
Bill went through the Committee, and was ordered
to be reported on Monday.
On the motion of Mr. C. GRANT, the House went into a
Committee of Supply on the Holyhead Roads and the Irish
Estimates.