Star.
London, England, 1816-04-10 00:00:00

IV.
in
in

he
ad

. • .
otib Woos. that every attention should be given to
this subject than he was, and he trusted the Hon.
Goldman would, give his Majesty's Ministers credit
welter being absent when it was before the House.
That other Mensbers were not equally attentive,
Might be attributed to the fatigue which all had un-
dergone its the course of the Session. He was sorry,
dist the Honourable Gentleman had assigned this as
a reason for withdrawing the question from the at-
tention of the House that evening, because it might
produce a feeling in the public mind, that the House
ins less anxious to make every effort to relieve the
distresses which were known to exist, than before,
aster as hi's opinion went, he thought that it would
be vibe to keep the Committee alive till after the
bolidsys.
Mr. J. P. GRANT was also in favour of the post-
ponement of the Committee, as.was Mr. BRAND.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that even if the ge.
rerel question was postponed, it was expedient for
the House to appoint Committees betdre the recess,'
'toexamiee into that part of the Resolutions relative
to wool and seeds. •
Lord CASTLEREAGH agreed in the propriety
of this suggestion, and said, if the Right Hon. Gen.
*men would move the Committees* he would oder
De objection to them.
Mr. S. THORNTON thought the cause of the
Agriculturist would he best promoted by postponing
the consideration if the Resolutions till alter the hull-
edys, as did Mr. LONG W. Poec.
Mr. GORDON objected to any adjournment of
the question, and said that many Gentlemen had
come down to the [-louse prepared to delivnr their
opinions ueon it. He took this opportunity of ask-
lag the Chancellor of the Exchequer a question or
two, upon a subject materially connected with the
agricultural interests of the country. The first wa‘
whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Govern.
swat to allow additional time to the agriculturist for
'fit payment of the Income Tax, due in July next ?
He also begged to call to the recollection of the
Right Honourable Gentleman a Minute of the Trea-
sury, which had been issued for the purpose of guid-
ing the conduct of the Commissioners of the Property
Ts& in cases where an actual reduction of rent had
taken place for a whole twelvemonth, as to the allow.
antes to be made to the landlord and tenant. He
wished to know whether a proportionate allowance
would not be made for reductioes which had only ex-
tended to half a year, and to those landlords who had
sot yet received their rents, and therefore had nut de-
termined what reduction they would make ?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
aid, that the general answer to these subjects would
ie laid before the House in the shape of a Bill which
en in preparation. The Honourable Gentleman
lad alluded to the order of relaxation in the collec-
tion of the Prope:ty Tax. He could only reply to
this by stating, that this order required he sanction
of Parliament before it could be carried into effect ;
and in, calling .tor that sanction, lie should propose
additions indulgences in the mode of collec-
tion, which he liepcd w wild prove satisfactory to all
Parties—(Hear, hear, hear I) With respect to the other
part of tie Hon. Gentleman's question, namely, re-
specting the allowance to be made to land Ards who
Lad not yet made up their minds as to the reductions
-which they should make in their rents, he felt great
ditlizulty in holding out any hope of a remission of
the tax to this respect.
After some retailer conrersation, in which Mr.
BROUGHAM, Sir JOHN NEWPORT, Mr. BRAND, Lord
CASTLEHLAOH, Mr CORWZN, Mr. H. SUMNER, Mr.
%smite, and Sir EGERTON BRYDGES took part,
Mr. WESTERN telt that the sense of the House
was in favour of going into the Committee, and he
accordingly moved that the Speaker should leave the
Chair.

The motion was agreed to, and the House went
into the Committee.
The Resolution having been read, Aro forma.
Mr. 13R0fIGHA NI said, that it must be admitted
en all hands that the agricultural interests of this,
country ha,i reached a pitch of depression which had
wither been experienced or imagined at any former
period. It was unnecessary, therefore, to offer one
observation in support of this proposition it was more
important to inquire from whence this depression had
ahem In entering upon this inquiry, the first ques-
tion that naturally suggested itself was, how comes it
tipass, That, under all our distresses, the prices of
Want ;vett much greater now than they had been
.01792, which was a period of peace ? For in 1792.
to price of Wheat was only 4.74. per (porter, whereas
.term the latest returns the price of that article ap.
pared to be 575. per quarter, and other grain pro.
Portionably great. This, he thought, was owing to
the great mercantile monopoly which had taken place
after the commencement of the war, which included
the manufactures, and, in course of time produced a
traction upon the farmer, The war at first restrained
the intercourse with the Continent of Europe ; but
Nit which created the great spring to cultivation in
Ns country, were the scarcities of 1795 and 1796,
aid the still greater scarcities of 1799 and 1600.
.12be prices of all agricultural produce were, at this
tine, raked to an amount wholly unprecedented, and
Produced an effect upon the growth of corn in this
tOtntry similar to that produced in the growth of
agar in the West Indies, on the destruction of the
French Colonies, on which occasion so much land.
eras brought into cultivation as to sink the price of
4ngar so much below the old standard, as it was on
Sae first destruction of those Colonies above it. The
GM cause of agricultural speculation was the restric-
tions on the cash payments of the Bank of England,
alid the consequent increase of country banks, whereby
lee facilities were afforded to the farmer to raise
t° ca-
for bringing into cultivation old and new land.
o this were added the prodigious prosperity of our
weit.ladia Colonies, in proportion to which the agri-
!alters' pursuits in particular districts of this country
wetettanifestly extended.. Another item in this ac-
`,?ast, and the last with which he should trouble the
retrace, was the war. In mentioning this, he
'rsot the smallest wish to excite any factious or
L°4
out feeling. This was a great philosophical
?Pion, the just solution of which all parties must
....fxious to arrive at; end, as the war had a very
7a* effect on the agriculture of the country, lie
rily alluded to it. If it had no other, or no
pr 7. effect than that, he would not quarrel with the
no more than he would find fault with the Bank
-ritern, if it had
kok merely increased the
of the country, paper circula-
and by that weans occationo

-

much greater degree of cultivation than wet ever be;
fore known. But the war occasioned the feeding of
a great number of additional mouths-..and it could
not be denied, that the money laid nut by Govern.
ment in providing for them, would be expended more
extravagantly, than if the same number of millions,'
were dieaursed by private individuals, under all the
guards and checks which private life afforded. These
purchases, on the part of Government, went, there-
fore, to raise the price of all commodities, and gave
a very considerable degree of encouragement to our
farming transactions. It was impossible to say what
the exact effect was. But, perhaps, the most cor-
rect criterion by which a judgment could be formed,
was, the number of enclosures that had been made,
since the commencement of the war, in 1792. From
that time to 1812, a period of twenty years, one thou.
sand two hundred commons had been enclosed.—
Even this criterion was nut perfectly accurate; be-
cause the Enclosure Bills gave no account of the ex-
tent of the land enclosed—and it must be obvious to
every Gentleman, that Enclosure Bills did not al-
ways refer to ground brought into cultivation, for
the first. time, but that it frequently settled the right
to land which had for years been productive.—
He believed, that the quantity of land brought into
cultivation during the period lie had mentioned, was
about two million of acres. Allowing this, they would
' still be at a loss to know, what addition was made to
the produce of the land, previously in cultivation, in
consequence of the improved method of farming, and
the additional capital expended on it. There was not,
he was convinced, a farm in this country that did not
produce, he would not say two blades of grass, where
one grew before, but in which there was not an in-
crease of a fourth or filth, in the article of grain. If,
however. they took it for granted, that two millioo,
of acres had been brought into service since 1792, it
would, without speaking of the increased produce of
lands that had been tilled long before, give a total of
six' Million of quarters (reckoning three quarters of
wheat to an acre) io addition to what was grown
before. The population, it must be observed. had
multiplied at the same time. From 1792 to 1800 a
very great increase had taken place ; and, from 1800
to 1811, the period of the last return, two millions of
persons had been added to the population of England
and Scotland. Now, taking the Average c insump-
tion of grain to be one guarkr for each :ndivitlual, an•
'wally, this would give a total of two millions of
, quarters annually, mad; use of by the increased po-
pulation. Bur, on the other hand, looking to the
number of acres brought into cultivation, it would be
found that the excess of supply amounted to four
millions of quarters; since the newly-cultivated lands
produced six millions of quarters of grain, while
the increased population consumed only two millions.
He did not place great stress on this statement, be-
cause it was founded on vague calculations; but, if I
it were allowed any weight, it would tend to throw '
some light on the causes which produced the present
depression. It thus appeared, that, during the last
twenty years, an increase of produce had taken p' Ice
beyond the demand. This increase might, in some
degree be attributed to an over-tradine. He was
not one of those 'who attributed to that circumstance
the present situation of the farming interest ; but he
certainly was of opinion, that it had caused a de-
pression of the means and resources of those who had
so user-traded, and must. therefore, be taken into
the general account. Contemporaneous with the
maximum of cultivation to which he had referred,
two extraordinary crops, those of 1813 and 1,t214,
occurred. All these circumstances, happening at the
same time, occasioned a depression of price—as, in
1797, other occurrences had created a progressive
rise. His Honourable Friend (Mr. Western) in the,
luminous statement which he had made to the House,
had, in his opinion, under-rated the change from a
state of war to a state of peace, in assigning reasons'
for the depression that bad taken place. He referred
to the peace of 1763 and 1783, at both which pe-
riods a rise of price had been experienced, and he
inferred front these instances, that the peace recently '
concluded had little or no effect in producing the de-
pression. He (Mr. Brougham) dissen:ed from this.
He considered the peace as one great cause of the de-
pression, and he looked to it with comfort, because it
was a cause that would have but a temporary operation.
His Honourable Friend referred to the grain market
in January, 1813, as compared with that of Novem-
ber, 1313, both periods of war—and he argued, be.
cause grain had Linen from 120 s. the quarter, which
was the price in January, to 755. which it brought in
November, no change from war to peace having
taken place, that it would ultimately have been re-,
duced to 575. the sum it was at present worth, even
if the war had continued. Now, it should be recol-
lected, that in January, 1813, there was not the
smallest prospect of puce ; but in the November fol-
lowing, events had occurred, which promised a very
speedy termination of hostilities. The results of that
most aurpirieve calamity for all Europe, for all man-
kind, which happened to the French army in Russia,
began to shew themselves. The French Ruler had
not only been driven from Russia, but afterwards, in
consequence of the battle of Leipsic, he had been
obliged to abandon Germany. Peace was then no
longer a matter of speculation. It was then se cer-
tain, that contractors would deal on the probability of
its speedy accomplishment. Under these circum-
stances, when Government came into the market,
backed by the extraordinary harvest with which the
country bad been blessed, and feeling sensible that
peace was ma the point of being concluded, they
would naturally offer very low prices, .Surely there.
fore, it was evident than the reduction which took
place in the month of November, 1813, Was in a
great measure to be ascribed to the approaching
change from a state of war to a state of peace.--
Another great cause of the present agricultural dis-
tress was to be found in the rage for commercial
speculation, whit* was so general in the years 1813
and 1314, when the ports of Europe were suddenly
thrown open to us. It was a fact, so certain were
individuals of a rich and speedy return for what they
had laid out, that labourers, and eves menial servants
in the country, who, when high wages Are paid,
had laid by smelL sums of money, brought out those
little hoards, and embarked them, in what they called
ventures, in the Dutch, German, or Baltic trades.—
Persons traversed the country who collected those
small sums, seldom more than forty or fifty pounds.
and when they had got a sum sufficiently large. it
was vested An goods. which were sent abroad. Mil-
liens Rpm. millions were Kat out of the country on
gi

• %

that occasion—buts instead of milllons com7ng hack,
he did not think the produce amounted to hundreds
of thousands. Since the period of the Sold' Sea
bobble, so much distress had not been felt is the ma-
nufacturing districts, as on that occasion. It was'
said that things would find their level—a fashionable'
phrase, which, it seemed, contained inn)s philosophic
nostrum to remedy all errors of our complicated sys-
tem of commercial economy. The consequence of
the loss resulting from the speculations %%15, that
the market for agricultural produce was diminished.
This could alone be attributed to peace—since, if it
had not been concluded, the system of rash specula-
tion could not have been adopted. In the last year,,
goods to the amount of eighteen millions were
sent to .Adnerica. Now, although the property
was not paid for, he was glad that it was sent there,
since it would be the means of nipping in the bud
the efforts of the Americans to produce several spe-
cies of manufactures, in the formation of which they
might prove very powerful rivals to us. Of these
418,000,000, he believed, that returns to the amount,
of eight or nine mill'oes had only been made. The.
payments of the manufacturers, in this country,
must, of course, be sleet —and consequently they
were debarred, to a certain extent, from going into
the Agricultural market. The next circumstance
which he would state to the Committee, almost fur-
nished in itstlf, he conceived, a solutiop of the dis-
tress under which Agriculture now laboured.
ing to the change in the system of the Bank of Erg.
land, there bad been a diminuticn of the Bark paper
is circulation, followed by a still greeter diminution
of the circulation of Country Beek Notes. From
1797, downwards, the accommodation granted to the
Farmer by the Country Banks, had tended greatly to
s increase Agricultural speculation. la the course of
a very few months, this system had been entirely
altered-the accommodation to the Farmer was with.
drawn—and he was called upon, not merely to pay the
interest of the loans he had received, but to restore the
principal, for the discharge of which he had looked
to the continuance of the high price of grain. The
persons who were chiefly affected by this revolution,
were those who had speculated without any capital of
their own. To them, the depression of prices, and the
demand to make restitution for the accommodation
they had received, were productive of certain ruin.—
Persons would say, e How are you, farmers, worse
now, when grain is at 575. the quitter, than you
were in 1792, when it was only 475. r' This did not
apply at all to Nowa; who hid depended on accom-
modation. They could not he bettelit,d by the low
price of provisions. It seas all 1 ss and no gain to
them. They might e:oily Ny for that accommoda-
tion, when grain w.:3 .1 quarter ; but how were
they to do it now, when it had fdlen to 57i. ?—They
might, even under those adv.:v:4 cirritinstaact., pay
I the interest of their loans, but it was impossible they
could liquidate the ptincipal. s'iontd now advert
to a circumstance of so much importance, that he
knew not whether to place it move, or on the same
level with the orerdrading. He meant the goat
change that had taken place in the last twenty or
twenty-five years, in the finances of the country.
The Taxes had been swelled from re 15,000,0e1y
their amount in 1799, to A75,W0,000; and, during
the last year, the expenditure, intJndin loan.,
amounted to *120,000,000, of which the taxes
produced nearly £C80,000,000. Such an elt..ht of
taxation must evidently bear laid on the agrizi.l,.
tural interest, and it did, notwithstanding the ;chef
recently aflorded, continue to press heavily un them.—
To place this in a proper point of view, the Learned
Gentleman submitted to thb Committee a calculation,
from which it appeared that, on a farm of 4.4)0 acres,
the charge of servants, taxes, and on other items,
not regulated by the price of grain and provisions,
amounted to 4282. He also pointed out the heavy
expense which the excise on leather, soap, candles,
and salt, visited on the farmer—as well as the addi-
tional erpendttore to which he was subject in conse-
quence of the increase of duties on beer and milt.
So long as the farmer continued to be liable to thole
high tens, a return to the prices of 1792 could not
relieve him. While his prices were kept up, the
farmer had no right to complain of taxation—but,
when his prices were lowered on the one hand, and
the taxes kept up on the ether, he might well say,
that he was unable to beer his burdens, since his staff
had been taken from him. The Learned Geetlernan
then adverted to the weight with which the I'oor's
Rates fell on the agricultural interest, particularly in
the neighbourhood of large manufactories. The
manufacturer, he observed, occasioned an increase of
the poor, which the farmer was obliged to support.
Having gone over the different causes that appeared'
to him to operate in depressing the agricultural inte-
rest, he should now state the rernedies for-the evil
which suggested themselves to him. Here the Learned
Gent. observed, that to one class of persons, namely,
those who had speculated on the accommodation of
country bankers, he believed, no relief could be afford-i
ed. But the greatbodyot the agricultural interest were
in a more healthy state, and for them measures of
relief might, he conceived, be devised. Alluding to
the Corn Bill of the last Session, he considered it as
a wise measure, even if merely temporary ; but Le
felt much diffidence in expressing an opinion on that
subject, on which the most eminent persons of the
country were divided. His Honourable Friend
(N:. Western) had stated, that much of the agri-
cultural distress had arisen from ovesetradingands
excess of taxation. He was of the same opinion ;
but he was surprised at the glaring inconsistency of.
his Hoeourable Friend's proposition, of compelling
exportation by means of a bounty, which was in
fact a bonus to over-trang, and supplying thati
bonus by still taxing the people.—(Near, hear.)—
He was generally hostile to the system of warehous-
ing, whether of foreign or native Corn j indeed, why
native corn should be watehoused, he could not con-
ceive, to the termer had a barn of his own, and had
no more reason to apprehend rats there, than in the
Government stores— (ffear, hear, and a laugh).—
With respect to the Poor hates, be was extreine:y
desirous that some means of equalizing them, accord.
ing to the rate of every species of property, might be
adopted. Connected with the poor, there was ano.
ther calamity, which was, that the poor laws were
the cause of the poor—(Hear, gar)--as the poor rates
were of the deterioration of our peasantry. There
was a time, when every peasant in the kingdom would
have felt his character affected, if he were thought
obliged to go on the parish ; but now the poor rates
entered into his calculation of support, particularly

, • . • • • . , . . •
'at the time of hie marriage. He observed, that-Mr.
Malthus attributed the excess of poor in England to
an excess of populatiOn, and conceived the peer kiwi
very inducive to early and improvident marriagesoe•.
He thought the tree exportation of wool would be
of the greatest possible aJeaNtage to the peoples
and the House should consider'Ait this was one
of the staple export commodities of the kingdom.—
rite great consideration then was, whether :tny relief
could be afferded to the excesses of iaxati3r, and the
diminished demand for manufactures ? He could
nut but think that the Sinking Fund afforded one
ereat means of relief. The Sinking Fund for the
present year amounted to 13 millions. of which six
only were sufficient to keep up the price of the funds.
There were consequently seven millions wh:ch it was
quite unnecessary to divert from the efficient relief
of the public. By removing the Malt TUC, Leather
Tax, and the Assess-ed Taxes,-he hoped that our ran.
nuf,cturers would, by the exertions of his Majesty's
Ministers, obtain a new market, by an inlet into
South AnltiliCl. This he threw out, not in the sprit
of parte, but as a means of great and efficient relief.
He was too far exh,testesi to proceed further ;—lie
should, therefore, not ec:epy the time of the. Com-
mittee any longer.—(Pt honourable Geneenzais. limn rat
dm' eon;d 14ud tittering.)
Lord CASTLE R.-EAGFI complimented the Tie,
nourable bomber on the great ability and conciliatory
temper with which he had discussed the question.
He felt it impossible to follow him through his lon,l
speech, but he thought it necessary to reit r p trt:cu-
lady to the great advantages which the country de.
rived from the restrictien imposed on the cash pay-
ments of the Bank of England. That measure sup-
plied commerce with a circulation it could not other.
wise have enjoyed, and was also a great monument
of our national strength, which alone could have sup-
ported it. He was extremely happy to hear the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman acknowledge, that
the present distresses were merely temporary, in
which he was convinced the House would concur,
when they had considered the cause of them. The
principal operative cause was the depreciated velee
of the staple of life, which he attributed to the g:
harvest of 1813, and the large quantities of corn im
ported since that period from foreign countries. Corn
was now fallen to .sqi. but he could not i m agine on what
principle it was :apposed that it would continue at that
price. During the disci sia ins last Sessam nn the Corn
Bill, it had been stated bat the a gticultureofthis coun-
try hod been so tar improved as to prod.:ce not only
our own contumption, but also a redundance that
might be exported ; while, on the other hand, :yore.
hensions were expressed cf a famine, if the foreign
supply was excluded. The truth, he believed, would
he teurol between those extremes; and he doubted
not, :hat as the l rte tanustot;ly high prices had caused
ail ueusually Brea: prod'ic., so the diminution of
pi ice would di :courage ;tee-ice:here ; and as land must
be thrown out of erophymect, tile dirdnution of sup.
ply must ineiciise the price. Throughout- the coon.
try there a oo.:_ooitioo in t!1•_ markets to rite j and
it, as had been state:, corn in Scotland had risen to
72e. he saw nothing to iacuce the House. to suppose
the present low price would continue; and it c ern
would rite to 80s. or Oos. would any one cronpleia
of the national distress e Ha flue:Ted', that the price
was influenced consisferably by the wi:ledrawing of
moon et the circulating medium from the country.
and by a con;tquent diminution of credit between
man and man in their commercid
This diminution of the circulation was caused by the
unwillingness of the Country Banks to continue their
accommodations, • while they apprehended that the
restrictions on cash payments would immediately ter-
minate. He did not, however, think that the coentry
was fundamentally drained, and was confident that
the adoption of measures calculated to establish gene.
ral good credit would relieve it from its present chs.
tresses. He lamented that the Property Tax had
not met with the approbation of Parliament, as it
would:rave precluded the necessity of touching the
money market. To trespass on the Sinking Fond
he was also uio flint►; for to that alone could the
country look for ultimate relief from the heavy bur.
den of the debt. stated (in answer to an observe.
tiun of Mr. Brougham) that the trade of this country
to South America was vet y grea, and that no exer.
tious would be wanting, on the part of his Majesty's
Government, to afford it every possible adattional
advantage.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, that the war in the
Peninsula created a demand for agricultural produce,
to a considerable extent, in Ireland. The termina.
tion of that war had, con;equently, a great aim!
in reducing the demand. Another source of the pre-
sent dßtresses etas to be (mind in the delay of the
Corn Bill, which induced persons to pour as much
grain as possible into the market here, for the purpose
of avoiding the protecting duties. At the time that
this importation took place, the mai Let was already
loaded with foreign corn, sufficient to supply all Eng-
land for a year. It also operated to the discourage-
meat of tillage, and in that way retarded the operation
of a measure decidedly beneficial. He differed from
his Honourable Friend ( Mr. Western) as to the
erre.cts of the warehousing system, velich he thought
it would not be right to depart from. He doubted
the probability that corn would ever he stored to
such an extent as to render that apprehension alone a
reason for abandonidg the principle altogether. He
agreed with his Honourable Friend in thinkipg that
many of the evils were temporary, in case they were
provided for by proper regulations. but if left to
themselves they would become perm meat.
Mr. %V. SMITH protested against the declaration
I made by the Noble Lord (Castlereagh) that the re-
moval of the Income Tax created a necessity fcr
raising a loan.
Mr. WESTERN'defended his arguments against
the warehousingsystem, which, he -maintained, was
prejudicial to agriculture, by diverting British capi-
tal from the purc:lase of British' corn to the purchase
of foreigncorn.

Mr. PRESTON said, he should propose some re-
, lief in a future stage, applic4ble to tenants for li►e,
and public chanties who held leases, founded on the
high price of corn.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the Chairman reported progress,
and obtained leAse to sit again on MuncLay the 29th
iastant.

Sir J. NEWPORT moved that a Speci il Com.
mittee should be appointed to examine the policy cf
MpOSiag ala iucrcaacd duty on the importation 01