Star.
London, England, 1820-06-08 00:00:00

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Workinsti.c county of Cumberland, against any alt A-
te • on 'timber.
•‘••• fall 'll.!..byaught up a Petition from the oc-
cupier; of.tand in the County of Nottingham, t omplainlog of
Dint...ie.—Laid on the table.
Dir.S. WORTLEY presented Petitions from Messrs. Horne,
Floa4-and T psnb2 Collators, MIAMI In 1144 And from.
their town agent in London, Mr. Rouser, stating that they
heard with surprise, that the legal proceedings which they had
taken.atiinit the Warden of the Fleet Winn, ter 01,-OttZtint
the enlargement of Robert' Christie Burton, Esq. was a breach
of privilege. They declared their total ignorance of the effect
of the proceedings they had commenced; that they bad acted
under the direction of Counsel; that they had forthwith ran-
quished the proceedings against the Warden of the Fleet; and
that they were ready to pay all expensos to Which the said
V arden bad been put in the matter. The lion. Member bore
testimony to the good charactet of the Petitioners.
• Sir J. GRAHAM also bory testimony to the respectable
character of one of the Petitioners.
Mr. W. WY NW, in consequence of what has passed, then
moved, that in consideration of the Petitioners having acknow-
ledged their offence, and espreued their contrition for what they
had done, this Meuse is content to proceed no farther upon the
Petition complaining of a breach of the privilege of that House.
—Agreed to.
The order for the attendance of the Petitioners on that
House was then discharged.
Mr. DA LY postponed his notice respecting the state of Ire-
I sad to this day se'nnight.
Mr. C. CALVERT obtained leave to bring in a Bill to con-
tinue the 50th of George 111. C. 36. for the regulation of the
Baking Trade for one year.
Sir GEORGE COCKBURN brought in a Bill to regulate
the state of his Majesty's Royal Marines while on shore.—Read
the first time.
Sis J. STEWART obtained leave to bring in a• Bill to repeal
so much of the 39th of the King (which was an Act to limit
the operation of certain Acts relating to the imposition of Fines
en Town Lands, &c.) as required Grand Juries to levy half the
expenses on Town Lands, arc.
General HART, in supporting the motion, declared he would
r.,tier prefer placing 'relate under the operation of Martial
Law, than under the present system of rapine and plynder that
*as perpetrated by Excise Officers. The mode adopted- in
fkistlsod was far less oppressive, and produced double the Re-
Tenet of that in 'rebind.
Lard MOUNTCHARLES support
ea the motion likewise.
Mr. HUME moved for Returns of the whole Establishment
of the Storekeeper-Genial, abroad and at home, to the Ist of
Na,y, 1820, including 'Conductors, Stations, a descr_iption IN the
reraosis employed, the Rates of ray, and the Total of the
whole, and also of the Contracts merle by the Commissariat
Department for Military Stores.—Ordered.
Mr. HUME then.moved far a 'temp.' the number of Men
and Officers of his Majesty's 9$ Regimes*, in 1819. It the time
of their embarkation, and that of, their landing in the West In-
dies, and of the number of deaths' on their passage, and since
their 'adding, to the Ist of December 1a5t.....-Ontand.
The ATTORNEY•GENERAL:put off his modalr respect.
log the Courts of Justice in Westminster Hall, to this day.
Six P. BUKDETT postponed his modem on the Manchester
affair. to ThursdaY the end instant.
The Glass Bill passed through a Committee.
The Customs Duties Regulation Bill was ordered to be read
' thethird time on Friday.
The Report on the Dublin Foundling Hospital Bill, as also
this on the Dublin House of Industry MU, were brought up.
sad the Amendments having been agreed to. was ordered to
be road the third time on Friday.

MESSAGE FROM THE QUEEN.
At a quarter past five o'clock, the House being
crowded to excess,
Mr.BROUGHAM rose in his place and said, that I
.he was commanded by the Queen to lay before the
Douse of Commons a Message, of which the follow-
ing is a copy. The Honourable and Learned Gentle-
sßau then read her Majesty's Message, as follows :
the Qum thinks it necessary to inform the House of
CUMmons, that she has been induced to return to, England, in
mmorglance of the measures pursued against her' honour and
kg peace, for same time by secret agents abroad, and WAY
.sanctisised by the conduct of the Government at heist. In
Adopting this course, her Mummy has bad no other purpose
whatsoever but the defence of her character, and the mainte..
name of those just rights which have devolved upon her by the
death of that revered Monarch, In whose high honour and VD-
staben affection she had always found her surest support.
" Upon her arrival, the tterax is surprised to find that a
alreasse has been sent down to Parliament, requiring its at.
minim 10 written documents, and she learns with still putter
Ascablement, that there is an intention of proposing that
these *mid be referred to a Secret Committee. It is this
Aar fourteen ,years since the first charges were brought for-
ward against her Manny. Then, and upon every occasion
during that Wog period, she has shewn the utmost readiness to
meet lurr accusers, and to court the fullest inquiry Wm her con.
duet. She now also desires an open investigation, in which she
may see both the chargeihnd the witnesses against her, a privi-
lege not denied to the meanest subject of the Realm. In the
face of the Sovereign, the Parliament, and the-Country, she so-
lemnly protests against the formation of a Secret Tribunal to
ecamine documents privately prepared by her adversaries, as a
• proceeding unknown to the law of the land, and a flagrant vio-
lation of all the principles of justice. She relies with full con-
fidence upon the integrity of the House of Commons for defeat-
ing the only attempt she has any reason to fear.
" The Quc cannot forbear to add, that even before any
proceedings were resolved upon, she has been treated in a
manner too well calculated to prejudge her ease. The omission
of her name in the Liturgy—the withholding the means of con.
vermce usually afforded to all the branches of the Royal Family
—the refusal even of an answer to her application. for a place of
residence hi the Royal Mansions, and the studied slights both
of English Ministers abroad, and of the Agents of all Foreign
Powers over whom the English Government has any influence,
must be viewed as measures designed to prejudiee the world
against her, and could only • have been justified by trial and
conviction."

CONSIDERATION. OF THE KING'S MESSAGE.
On the Motion of Lord CASTLEIMAGH, the order
of tbe day for taking his Majesty's Message into con-
sideration, and the Message itself having been read,
Lord CASTL?EREAGH rose.—ln calling the at-
tention of the Muse to the course of proceedings
which he should propose to adopt, he trusted the
House would feel as he did, the painful and delicate
nature of the task imposed upon him. The present
was one of the most distressing public questions ever
agitated in Parliament.; and he assured the House,
that if bee, AS not convinced that every effort had
beets marie.twavert from Parliament the discharge
of abilkuriblise; duty, he should rise with a still hea-
vier.bout than pressed on him on the present occa-
sion. The usual course, wbeniver anyrecommenda-
tion bad been made by the other branches of the
Leisippa, aad particularly from the 'Throne, was
to tat e it iato the sarliest considerition; and after it
had been fairly esansined, the House was led to pro.
.nouice its judgment. and to enter into the discus.
sisfa.af.the VilliQUS paints that might arise. He might
,say;sm.tbe authority of tbe Hon. and toeataikdi Gen.
demon opposite, that great exaggeration and nume-
rous soisrepresenatioos had been practised on this
miijt importarat question, mall& of the House. This
would make it his duty to travelbeyond what might
love otherwise appeared sufficient to offer to the

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House in explialition of tee eirgeffittalum L a_
to its view.. Du he w011i1,A.411. it Tee_ef •
I
terfere with dse.nound intietife elteliouse- w
object would be to keep the •
• :If Parliament t•
a candid disposition to hear thetrtan of the subject:,
a disposition which the tont assumed to-night was,
he feared, calculated to destroy. He should now
address himself to that part of the subject which
arose out of a question put to him yesterday, and
'which led naturally to the object now undereonsi-
deration. He had been segarned to state What was
the nature of the proceedings which his Majesty's
Ministers should think it their duty to propose or re-
commend to the House on this important and deli-
cate question—(Hear, hear).--But he should protest,
in limine, against any attempt which had been, or
might be made, to represent Ministers or the Crown
as coming down to the House with a tone of perse-
cution or prosecution! Ile appealed to the House
whether any part of their conduct led to any such
conclusions?—(Hear, hear).—He .also trusted, that
when the House adverted to the terms of his Ma-
jesty's Message, it mould be of opinion that the com-
munication could net have beetrmade in more gra-
cious terms--(Lesighter en the Opposition sisie)r-or
more calculated to lead to a temperate discussion!
The King threw himself, as he was entitled by the
Constitution to do, on the Great Council of the Na-
tion, in a question in which the interests of the coun-
try were as deeply involved at the honoUr of the
Crown, and called upon them,to give him that ad-
vice which, under the circumstances in which his
Majesty stood, they would think most proper. With
respect' to the manner of taking the Message into
consideration, he did.not suppose there could be any
difference of opiuion. It was impossible, till it had
been taken into consideration in the usual manner,
that the House should be aware of the nature of the
papers--( Hear, hear).—And be could assure the
House, that nothing which might fall from him on
this occasion,—no vote which he might ask, would
.whin/ in the least • degree to fetter the Judgment of
Parliament on the mode of proceeding, or bias it on
the question, as to whether on the face; of theinforma-
don there were grounds for any proceedings at all.
(Hear, hear).—He Should, however, not act fairly to
the Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite, if
he did not state, that there was in the papers com-
municated matter of the gravest nature, involving the
interests of the country and the honour of the Crown.
He considered the Message teat down by the Queen
as recommended by her Legal Advisers; and vane:
that Message spoke of secret communications, of
charges resting on written documents—and to be de-
cided by some secret Tribunal, which the House was
to be induced to adopt, through the prejudices ex-
cited against the Queen, be wished to relieve the Ho-
[pourable and Learned Gentleman from such a belief
and apprehension. There was a great difference be-
tween a charge and actual guilt; but he would trans-
glen againsthis duty, if he attempted to describe in
detail what the nature of those communications was.
He should, however; assure the Honourable and
Learned Gentleman, that with respect to the credi.,
bilk), of the sources of information, it came from
parties who were prepared to appear before any Tri-
bunal which might be appointed, with a view to cor-
roborate in the most solemn manner the truth of
those depositions, which bad been given in the first
instance in a written shape. IVith respect to the
course of proceedings, it was astonishing that the.
Queens able Legal Assistants should not have sug-
ted to her mind, that it could never-occur to a
'onal creature, to a Ministeraafthe Crown, accus-
tomed to the puiest administration of justice; that
pry the slightest imputation of guilt could attach to
the meanest subject of -the State, without his being
allowed an investigation, which would afford him,
together with that publicity necessary to the ends of
justice, a full opportunity of cross-examining evi-
dence, rebutting testimony, and impeaching the cha-
tter of the witnesses, with a degree of liberty
which her Majesty must share, not in precedence,
but in common with every subject in the country—
(Hear, /tel.—Without shaking the principles of
!Mash jurisprudence, he apprehended that it was a
most serious question for the Great Council of the
Nation to decide on a course' of proceeding most
likely to lead to the establishment of innocence and
honour, if they could be asserted. His Majesty had
called upon the House to adopt such a course as
would best satisfy the ends of justice, and protect the
honour of the Crown; be therefore should submit to
the House that counsel proceedings taken by Par-
liament on so many occasions before—(Hear, hear/
from the Opposition).—No one could deplore more
sincerely than he did the necessity of bringing so
anxious a case before the House; but because it was
a most anxious case, and one perhaps unprecedented,
it did not follow that there was no mode to be adop-
ted on the occasion. After a Committee from their
own [body had examined the information' and brought
to the view of Parliament all the precedents Which
might, by analogy, guide their. proceedings, then
alone could they be prepared to discuss whether the
transaction should be pursued before the High Court
of Parliament, or taken in the shape of a Bill before
.the Legislature of the Country. He should therefore
.feel it his duty, on every ground, to propose that the
documents should be examined in a Cominittee of
Secrecy. At the same time, he wished to guard
[against the idea that the decision of 'the Committee
should in the least involve the merits of the case it-
eelf. It would nOmore do that than the decision if
,a Grand Jury!-(Hear, hear! from the Opposition)..—
He repeated, that be did not consider that on the
determination of the Committee the guilt or in
of the Illustrious Individual should in the least
depend. They would only examine the information,
and report on its nature to the House, with their ob-
servations erith respect to precedents, and the course
of proceedings to be adopted. It would at the same
time be the duty of the House to guard that investi-
gation
with all the most solemn forms of inquiry.—
As to the mode of choosing the Committee, he had
not been able to find that the House had proceeded
to choose a Secret Committee, as in the case of Fez
Thomas gumbold, where the inquiry incidentally
led to aiarre, otherwise than by.ballot. But as
he considered that the formation of the Committee
would be an important feature in this transaction, be
should new give, notice, that when the opportunity
should have arrived, ha would. feel it his day to Oro-
Pose itiabe House to isonsinete a Coinmittee, in order
to allow greater facility for discussing the formation
of that Committee, and that it should be conipgsed

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14111414111 most capable ofadv6ing.the norm.,
iiilrpictk4eojted fie the Commutetas not
r highly
pa if it should report that there were no
alinthothugehl ""ihe adraiuttedied thdat itthsev:lffiuldtbes of
the
He as-:
asuT-eid—rthsetoiloinnoustitrabutelealyaptLeocaereicfilendgGs
eanitiaelml. H
an o
site, that he could net feel more relieved than he
(Lord Castlereagh) should, if such should be the na-
ture of the Report of the Committee. If there were
' any' ndividuals who had a personal interest in find-
ing that the charge of guilt was unfounded, it wits,
`those who stood in the situation of his Majesty's Mi-.
ulster:. There had been no temptation for them to
rush into this inquiry, either as Members of Parlia-
ment, or as Members of his Majesty's Councif. No-
thing could be decided in the Committee but the
mode in which the question should come to Path*.
silent, in order to place the Queen in a situation in
which she could most effectually vindicate her cha-
racter. If be imagined that any other interest was
..to be referred to that Committee, there were no two
in clivjduals whom he should feel more imperatively
called upon' to nominate amongst its Members, than
the two Honourable and Learned Gentlemen oppo-
site, the Legal Advisers of her Majesty. But, as he
conceives the case to stand,• he should think it inex-'
pedient to introduce them into the Committee ; for
should the Committee report that there was nothing
,to impeach the conduct of the Illustrious Party whom
they ;assist with their advice, and that there was no,
occasion toproceed farther, this happy decision would
receive no Additional recommendation, either in the
estimation' of her Majesty or in that of the Public,
from having been come to in conjunction with the
two Learned Gentlemen who held the important and
honourable office of her Majesty's Legal Advisers.—
On the other hand, if the Report stated, that there
was enough of grave matter in the document laid be-
fore the Committee to advise some ulterior proceed-
ing, they would be placed in the most embarrassing
dilemma between their private and their public duty.
If they concurred in the opinion that there was suf-
ficient ground for ulterior proceedings, how much
more painful would such a decision prove to the
House, when sanctioned by two Hon. and Learned
Gentlemen who stood in such a situation? If they
thought it their duty to protest against the decision of
the Committee, under what disadvantage would they
not labour at being among the number of those
through whom that decision had been formed ? He,
therefore, submitted to the House, whether, for every
purpose of public justice and of duty to their Illus..
thous Client, these two Hon. and Learned Gentlemen
were not much more free to act by being omitted,
than if they were to form any part of the Committee?
This would not preclude the House from guardinr
the inquiry by taking every precaution to sift the:
matter to the bottom. It would be open for the
House, as in the case of Sir T. Rumbold, before in-.
stituting proceedings in the nature of a Bill, and he
guarded against being understood to have any pre-
ference for that particular mode, to take the precau-
tion of referring the Report of the Committee, to a
Committee of the whole House, in which the whole
subject would be laid before the view of the HoUse,
and might be discussed by Resolutions.. He could
assure •the Right. Hon. Gentleman opposite, and the
Learned and Hon. Gentleman near him, that it was
impossible for them to feel the deep responsibility at-
tached to every step which Ministers might take in
these most painful proceedings, more sensibly than
it was felt by himself and his colleagues. Till the
circumstances to Which he had alluded could be ex-
plained, he botliat, even in the eyes of the Ho-
nourable and Learned Gentleman himself; it would
not appear that there was anything so flagrant in
the conduct of Ministers as to :tient condemnation,
in the present state of the proceedings—(Hear, hear).
He thought that it was the duty of Ministers to
avoid all painful disclosures, which, whether true or
false, could not fail to produce a painful sensation in
the country, to agitate the public mind, and disturb
the general tranquillity. In the conversation of yes-
terday, an Hon. and Learned Gentleman, speaking
as the advocate of her Majesty, had been disposed
to charge it upon Ministers, that they had not car-
ried their forbearance far enough; and to contend,
that even after the arrival of the Queen in this coun-
try, they ought not immediately to have come down
with a Message from the King, but they might still
have kept open what he had been pleased to call
the door of negotiation," in the hope that some-
thing might erase to relieve the House from the pain-
ful and arduous duty which they were now forced
to take upon themselves. Now he would own, that
if be had any doubt of the propriety of the course
pursued by Ministers (which he had not), it would
'lave arisen from an idea that forbearance had been
extended somewhat too far. The transactions of the
last eight and forty hours furnished a pretty suffi-
cient comment on what might have been expected
from a negotiation, as it was called, since it was
seen,
,that the illustrious Personage who was the
subject of this discussion, was so little under the
counsel of the .Hon. and Learned Gentleman (her
legal adviser), that, by his own confession, those do-
cuments connected with dig arrangement lately pro•
which had been pußlished, had been so pub-
lished°9edl without his consent. He (Mr. Brougham) had
felt it due to himself to declare, that he had not
advised that publication, and to admit that it was
garbled, imperfect, and untrue. Under whatever
lamentable, and he might add criminal advice, that
publication had taken place, it was evident that the
object of it was to appeal to the lower orders of the
people—(Hear, hear ),-..antt the purposes which it
was intended to answer could be concealed from no
one who did not wilfully shut his eyes. If any feel-
ing but regret could *have place in his breast at this
moment, he should rejoice that, from the circum-
stances of the case, no doubt could( exist as to the
course Which Ministers had taken oil this melancholy
occasion; that the Illustrious Personage herself had
been fully appsised of their-resolution; and that the
conduct of Ministers, free from all disguise, had made
her distinctly understand the consequences to which
,the step she had resolved upon taking, must inevit-
ably and immediately lead—(Hear, hear, hear),
He did not wish to insinuate anything to the piejet-
dice of her Majesty, mush less to throw blame ow
the, Step which she had taken, if she felt assured that
she could establish her innocence. The feelings of
human nature in such a case would naturally rise up
in her behalf. It was, however, of importance that
it should be known, that the course intended to be

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pursued by Ministers had never been concealed frJrn
the parties best entitled to be made acquainted with.
*their decision. -In this statement the Honourable
trod Learned Gentleman would bear him out ; as to
him, the intention of Ministers had been communi-
cated at the earliest period at which they could he
communicated ;.acid he Believed be might say, the
they had been known to the Honourable and teamed
Gentleman fur the last motith. This was the last
'Subject on eaith with which he could wish te connect
any discussion about went*, but he thought; if at all
disposed to do so, he had a sight to quarrel with the
use made of the word " negociation"hy the Henour,
able and Learned Gentleman, hen speaking on this
subject.. He, for his part, it oppcsition to that
Hondurable and Learned Gentleman, conceives: I no,
negociation at all to have taken place,.uirless and
unreserved exposition of what were the views of Mi--
nisters deserved that name.- He,-'however, could
not admit that they had entered into any; oege.
dation,: or that they had offered anything like a'
bribe to the Illustrious ludivklual whose case was now
to be brought under the consideration of Parliament
Having always supposed that it was the intention of
her Majesty to remain abroad, he (Lord Castlereagh)
had thought that it would be right to return to that
specific quantum of allowance which hat formerly
been granted to her, a part of which she bad thought
it her duty to decline receiving. Looking at the ca'
lamitous separation which bad taken place--looking
at all the circumstances of the case--be had consi-
dered it right to bring up her Majesty's income to
the amount which it had formerly been proposed tit
she should enjoy. The-House were aware that
un-
der her marriage-settlement, in the lamentable event
of the death of his Majesty, she would -be entitled
to an income of £50,000 a-year, as widow of the
King. He had therefore thought it desirable that
an annuity to that amount should be granted not;
that the subject might r.evertaglia come before Par-
' liament—( Hear, hear J.—This, anis, had been pro-
posed to the Queen, and be had no hesitation-in say-
ing, that when proposed, the only condition coupled
with it was the stipulation that she should remain
abroad ! Now with respect to the proposition that
the Queen should give up her title and all the rights
attached to her situation, he did not know that such
a proposition had been made, or could be made !
(Hear, hear).—Nothing had been proposed to her but
an arrangement by which it was hoped that all de-
bates of a hostile nature might be avoided. It was
understood that no proposition to the Queen to sur-
render her rights as Queen could be valid without
the interference of the Legislature, and without an
Act of Parliament. Ministers had been anxious that
such measures might be adopted as should prevent
all future conflicts, both at home and abroad, be-
tween the illustrious parties. It was obvious, that i'!"
her Majesty resided in England, both the King and
herself would frequently be exposed to much painful
embarrassment, aid it Was Ina too evident thatthere
was in this country no lack of disposition to turn such
circumstances to mischievous purposes (Ikon Hear)..
If the Queen thought proper to remain abroad, re-
ceiving £50,000 per sihnum, her Majesty was not
required to abdicate any of her rights as Queso off
England, but merely_to do that which was-the com-
mon, he might almost say, the uniform practise: of
persons of her exalted rank—to bear such a tithrae
would not raise that perpetual question between her
Majeity (from her wish to be received in her public
character), which hactbeen productive of,much pain
to the Queen herself, and of much inconvenience to
other parties. She was not required to surrender
any of- her legal rights or claims whatever, and in
this,he was sure he should be borne out by the Hon.
and Learned Gentleman himself,, who he believed
was in possession of a document which placed the in-
tentions of Minister{ in this respect beytind the possi-
bility of doubt. He would then maintain, that their
conduct had been marked by no harshness unbe-
' coming them as Ministers or unbecoming them as
~nien. Here he must be allowed to make a distinc-
tion between those privileges given by the Law and
Constitution of the country to the Queen of these
Realms, and those which usually appertained to her
rank, but which it was in the discretion of the Sove-
reign to bestow. These the Queen, of England did
,not enjoy of right; and because she was denied these
privileges, which it rested With the Sovereign to con-
fer, it was not to be assumed that ,s)te was treated
with injustice or oppression. The distinctien which
he took was between the Queen of right, and the
Queen of grace and favour. Under the privilege of
the King, it was that she might be received at Court.
The King of this country was the master of his own
Court, and family, and that House Was the last place
in which a doubt on that subject could be entertain-
aml. as it had there beets admitted that the King was
the Master of his Court, as the Queen was of her
Drawing-room; and his Majesty Kid a eight.with-
out appeal to any human being, to admit or exclude
from Court any one he was so disposed to act by, or
to treat any member of his. faro' y with either fa-
thyme rKg or discouragement.
possessagemt.theHepottozght it right that
loss of these privileges
in respect to the Crown. Thu power ought to be-
on
those
whoofwen ere entailing
nun theg
hang to the Sovereign; he did nitt, sajf that it ought
to be exercised cm any impenetrable principle, but
the privileges in question, whiCh ,ere conceded as a
favour, could not be claimed its. a. right. Without
r pursuing this branch of the subjectfairther, he thought
.the.Hotise would"feels and that the HOneuiable pet:-
demon would forgive him for siying, that bicauie
the Crown chose to withhold certiot favours which
it was in its power tegmot, and that at a moment
when a judicial inqstiry was pending, it did'not fol-
low, that the Crown was a party to any act of ieje,-
tice, or course of proceeding that might prejudice
the individual whose conduct was about to be calk,:
in question. He should also, at the proper momeut,
contend, that the Crown was to determine whether
lor not any individual.waa to be prayed for by nalp
in the Liturgy; and the exercise of this right ough"
ticot to he viewed as prejudging any cause about to
be tried. So long as her Majesty did nothing to
force on the Government or the Crown the conside-
' ration of the question now before them, no charge
had been 'sought for, and nothing but the most cogent
and most paramount necessity could have induce.l
them to take a step which. must expose the Crown
and the Country to the calamitous embarrassmeut
by which they were now menaced. But the caw
was now, that a nevi state of thingi must be formed
from what bad formerly been. Mum tbe

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which cottietatt propriety and justice requited la .
ease, to believe in innocence till guilt was prot
t'Veq
but not to suspect outward appearauces which coul
not at first be explained, but which, after a little inH
quiry, might be satisfactorily cleared up. He called I
upon the House to bear in mind her peculiar situa-
tion :—a foreigner, unprotected, and nearly friend,.
less, who had sustained a six years almost involun-.
tary absence from England. Bearing these things in
their recollection, he thought they would not eery
severely blame her if she had fallen into the error of
listening to the honest and well-meant recommenda-
tions of a friendly individual who had desired to serve
her, even though those recommendations were not as
in candour he would say he thought they were not)
the recommendations of absolute wisdom—(A laugh).
It was not surprising that she should open her heart
to friendly advice so given, after the treatment she
had experienced. He was surprised that the Noble
Lord could construe the language of her Majesty's
message on the 'subject of the Secret Committee, into
an expectation that by that Committee she was to be
ultimately judged. She knew that an open inquiry
must follow. Not to suppose that, would .be to sup-
pose that laws more monstrous than those under
which Lord Strafford and the wives of Henry VIII.
perished, were to be resorted to on this occasion. The
ricketty and shattered Administration, of which the
Noble Lord was the organ in that House, did not
dare to attempt acting such a part. He was con-
vinced it Would be found impossible to pass a Bill in
the Secret Committee, without even witnesses being
examined, and without the possibility of the accused
being heard. He would not, therefore, counsel the
Illistrious Personage to look upon this either as a
concession, a demonstration of kindness, or as any
proof that it was better to throw herself on Parlia-
Assent than appeal elsewhere. But he would wait to
see what course the House would take. But did any
man, in his sober senses think of calling that Cem-
esittee a Grand Jury, of conjuring up any sort of
analogy with that unimpeachable institution, which
did not exist ? Did that, he would ask, did that stra.
tagem take in any one person? There were many per-
sons in that House who differed both from himself and
the Noble Lord ; but he would answer for it, there
was not one man who was convinced by it, that there
was any sort' of analogy between a Grand Jury and
the tribunal about to be initituted. A Grand Jury,
it would be olsserveri, in the first place, were all
sworn ; in the next, they were entirely impartial—
They were impartially selectede-the party ernpaanel-
ling had no connection with the issue--the aceused,
as much as the accuser, wen concerned in sbe-cheice,
of them. There was ao doubt they 'deliberated oie
es parte evidence—but what stet a evidence?,
(Hear.)—Was It 6n papers and letters—pities 0,
evidence, called evidence, brought from beyond shit
Alps by a Secret COMMitiloll sent out by Goa bowel
whom, but now well known for what purpose, via.,
to save the Committee of the House of Commons
the trouble ot eaaminiug evidence. He stated him-
self to be utterly ignorant of the contents of the
papers to be laid beforp the Committee. He had
only seen the outside of that green bag, nothing
more; and all his objection against it was, that the
whole of the evidence was in that bag, and that
there was not a living witness to be examined. He
knew that some one would be called to prove that
this was the signature of such a one—a Gentleman,
perhaps, who had beeir sent out to make a residence
of ten months at Milan—a member of the learned pro-
fession, who, till that ill-fated hour, stood high in the
I,reputation of the world and the esteem of his friends.

of the late King, softie new arrange tent became nes
cessary. He had, hotvever, no hesitition in saying,
that if that arrangement had not been made with re-
spect to the Prayers which had taken place, the course
which must have been pursued • would not only have
been unbecoming, but would have been absolutely a
mockery. The instructions given to Ministers abroad
had been issued so far back as in the year 1807, and
nothing had been done since, so far as he knew any
tiing of the matter, beyobd Calling their attention to
the spirit and letter of those instructions...(f/ear),
These grew out of an application made from a Ali-
nister to a foreign Court for information how to-act
in the situation in which he found himself. Her Ma-
.;sty having. as was well known, been excluded from
the English Court, it followed, as a matter of course,
that it could not be required that she should be re-
leived at foreign Courts. Our Ministers, therefore,
at foreign Courts, were instructed to take no public
or official notice of her Majesty, in the way of intro-
ducing her to any foreign Court ; and in the event of
a foreign Court choosing to receive her en its own
account,. the English Minister was nut to assist on the
occasion. But saving the question of a public re-
ception, it was broadly and distinctly laid down in
the body of their instructions, that they were to treat
her Majesty with every respect, and afford her every
facility and accommodation in their power. All
the resti ictions wished to be imposed upon her Ma-
jesty when travelling was this, that she should not
assume her public character. This suggestion was
dictated by a wish to save her from the hiconve-
nicaces to which she was in the habit of exposing
herself, from her being in the habit of pressing her-
self on foreign Courts, in her public character. 'fhe
next question was, whether any unbecoming spirit
had been manifested by Government in the reception
given to her Majesty en her arrival in England ?
Ifcr Majesty, as he had already stated, was apprised
of the situation in which she would stand the mo-
ment after her landing in England. Some might
thi;lic it harsh and unkind not to give her those fad.
lities and honours which were usually afforded to
the me•nbers of the Royal Family. It was, however,
to be remembered, that fur a long time prior to her
leaving this country, she had not been recognized as
a member of that Illustrious Family, and, without
abaiidoning that resolution which had been taken, and
Ltd been announced to her Majesty, it was not for
Ministers to take any step that might lead her to
conclude that they had changed their determination.
lie knew that remarks had been made on her taking
up her .abode in the house of a private individual;
but he could assure the House, • that there existed no
disposition on the part of the Government to annoy
or cramp her Majesty, and he was surethattliere was
no feeling of that sort in a higher quaiter. .In proof
of this, he might recal to the House the time when
a larger graut to her Majesty (then Princess of
Wales) had been sanctioned by 'the Crown than she
thought it consistent in her then situation 'to accept.
They would also remember, that on the first day of
the Session he bad announced to the House that care
had been taken to guard against any inconvenience
being sustained by her Majesty from the lapse of her
Income. He could further state to the House, that
the moment it was known that the Queen had landed
in England, a communication had been mace from
the First Lord of the Treasury to the who
might most naturally expect to receive teerrg,°l:tating
that there were no instructions on the part of Govern-
ment to subject her, to any inconvenience while the
question to be submitted to Parliament remained uar
decided, and, for any arrangements that might be
necessary with respect to her residence, she had
only to send to her Agent, and all would be set-
tled with due regard to her accommodation,
The I louse, he doubted not, would treat this question
with that calm and dignified attention which they'
gave to all great questions; and the Public, though
i; would share the anguish growing out of the pro-
ceedings, would await respectfully the decision of
Parliament. " But," said his Lordship, “ if there
were any disposition to inflame the Public on this
question, and I assure the Gentlemen opposite that
I am satisfied, not only of such a wish being remotel
from them, but that they would be, disposed to re-'
press it wherever it might appear ; but, if such a dis-
position exists anywhere, and if her Majesty should
unhappily have lent an ear to any mischievous and
false adviser—(Dear, heat)-L-who would teach her
that either her honour or her innocence (and I am,
cure I wish that she may be enabled to establish
both), will be best vindicated by such a proceeding,
I hope the feeling of the Gentlemen on that side of
tile House will satisfy her, that, far from attaining
such a result by such means, opprobrium and re-
proach will pursue her, 'for being the dupe of such
wicked and foolish men !—(Hear, hear).—l trust that
her Majesty will now be awakened to her situation,
and be convinced, that if she has an enemy on earth
ssho would make her situation at once desperate
and odious, in the eyes of all good and honourable
men, it is he whit. would advise her. by a gat bled
and false misrepresentation of the late proceedings,
to appeal, not to Parliament, who would bear her
cnnqittints and do her justice, but to those out of
doot s, whose passions may be excited, and whose
malice would be gratified, by disclosures that can
only prove injurious to her, and calamitous to the
country. if any individual, entertaining such views,
should have presumed to approach her person ; who,
from his incapacity to give good advice—(Hear,
heco—or from his desire to mislead, bas conducted
her into the thorny and crooked paths in which the
ncw wanders, I hope that, roused to a sense of- her
Teal situation, she will see that the best course shis4'
can take is to bring her case ip a oeimututional way
:before Parlianient, and the only course which shel
.:an take with propriety, if she wishes for justice.
!low move, that the Papers yesterday communicated
%. this House be referred to tt Select Committee to
consider the matter thereof, and report their.opinione
thereon to the House"—(Hear, hear, Asp).
Mr. BROUGHAM felt satisfactioa that the hour',
'v.-as at hand when he might freely defend that Plitt"'
:.ess, who was connected byblood and by markagn„
‘rith the gttat family on which our cooStltutiou
stested, or a: least with whom it was so knitted, that,
'ln their interest, dignity, and popularity, the walfarii
of the whole nation must depend. This Illustrious
Lady, from her natural sagacity (putting the atti•
dvint of her highibirth Out of uonsiderauon), would,
'..eve instinctively shrunk from 'anything that wan
Siean, impure, or degrading. He implored the House
•'.* set out dispassionately. and WA only to do that

That this individual should have lowered himself,
he confessed had both surprised and pained him.—
He begged pardon for the expressions he was using,
but they were canvassing so freely the characters of
illustrious individuals, that minor considerations must
yield. He must again recur to this unpleasant sub-
ject, deprecating, as he did, the individual and the
office. To go as he did, and sii prying into the most
secret actions of domestic life in a foreign country—
seeking for information among the filthy wine-houses,
joining in familiar confabulation with the bargemen
of the lake, porters, cast-off servants of mistresses—
those detestable charaCters who, to the credit of
Courts of Law, scarcely ever shewed their faces
within them without having them stamped with in-
famy—to sit, he repeated, writing down all the tiule-
tattle of those reprobate characters. Before this he
had thought better of human nature, more of the me-
rits of professional honour !—(Hear, hear). In saying
this he was saying what he felt at the degradation of
a professional brother. Such low offices, he-acknow-
ledged, must be performed ; but then let them be
done by hands that could not be sullied by any
Species of baseness—(Hear, hear). Let no man dip
a finger in such filth who was not born to degrade
the human species ! (Hear, hear). But it appeared that
all this Committee could do amounted to nothing.—
According to the Noble Lord, it could not bring in a
Bill of Attainder against her Majesty, nor otherwise
injure her; because in its capacity it could not adopt
any specific measure in the matter. This entire
harmlessuess of the Committee, however, be denied.
The Report of a Committee of that House was no
indifferent matter, He would put it to any one man
present, how he would like a body, consisting of
twenty-one persons, appointed to investigate into bis
character, in the appointment of whom be had
voice, and between whom and himself there were
irremediable differences?. How then he would put
it to that man—for he only suppined in the case the
feelings of a man,how "would he like that before
that Committee, selected by the servants of his antis.
gonist, his conduct for six long years should be can.
vassed—his conduct, too, paved at the distance of
twelve hundred miles, without retstivipka tittle of
evidence from him, without his being permuted either
to know the nature of the evidence adduced aphait
him, and of course without the power of refuting it?
Having censidored Ness objections, Moss-Would be
'like this C,oriamittee, thus composed. and thus in-
quiring, as it were; in darkness, to record their ver-
dict? Putting him in Ag same situation in which
her Majesty• Was before, What of hii earthly goods
would lie not give to escape the garbled ekpositio
of his character which would in consequence ensue?
if the Committee should only turn out their Report,
couched in the mildest, terms of affirmation which it
was in the power of the Noble Lord's oily rhetoric to
framei—(Leughter}--so long as it 'only said Yes to
the charge, that 'man's chancey Witold be fa es
blasted. An appeal, it wii ,11" at itat4
ICS MOO to open trial. DUI 4144 i q,so b 0 cowl-

shved, that In the Interim the evicledee might be lost,' tl4s statement, that the Queen's cause must haiie beta
Abe iSilfidual might. safer greatly from aloes*, or a bad one, or he (Mr. Brougham) would sot helot ad-
le might die-stand Ins it nnt a consideration for a I vised her to accept the propoial. He certaialeiped
man of honour that his memory might b‘hlighted, . counselled her Majesty's rejection of It With great.
whilst he might not hate an opportunity to restore' paiu, because he had hoped to have put an mill, to
it? Sven it he did live, he .mutt go to trial with an the present question by an arrangement. lli might
immeasurable weight of prejudice against him. It add, that if other propositions had been Made to her
I
was in vain to liken this Tribunal to a Grand Jury. Majesty, which, as a woman of heenur, she coml.' If Ministers thought her Majesty guilty on the Ite- hive accepted, and which it would not have beeusin-
[fort of the Commission, let them act upon that as- consistent with the honour of Government to have of-
Issuance I—(Cheers). He strongly deprecate.' the fired, nor wit!, justice' far her to accept, be should
1
course of Ministers on this occasion; they wished by have counselled her to accept it; always giving the
the appointment of the Committee to screen them- preference to an lioness:able private arrangement over
selves behind names better than their own—to seek all others whatsoever. Who should presume to say
shelter from the public gaze—to cover themselves where the inquiry WAS to stop when once gone into ?
up from the public eye! But they had of their own Tho'se who coenselled ih s Crown upon this occasion, if
responsibility come down to the House with this they did not know, ou,slit to know, that a certain line
Message, and they ought to face it as men, and as once passed, everything must be told—not merely
all Ministers should do! By going into an inquiry how the Illustrious Personage had been treated by
in the manner of a Secret Committee, no one could' foreign Powers, and British Ministers at foreign
know that this inquiry was in fact going on; the very Courts--but all the private anecdotes and transac-
etistence of it even could not be known. He would dons of certain Illustrious Personages would be in-
just as lieve take the opinion of Ministers as of such a volved, and must be disclosed and laid open to the
Committeeswith this singledistinction, that the verdict public eye!—(Herr).—ln that case, we might be
of the one would leave no stain upon the character of exposed to see such another Session as occurred
this unfortunate personage, whilst the other would eleven years ago, when all interest in the• ordinary
undoubtedly leave a very deep one—(Hear, hear), topics of
.gossip or of politics was completely swal-
This was the broad ground on which he viewed the lowed up in the subject which then engrossed all attend
question. He wished every one to consider whether don, the private transactions of one most Illustrious
he would like, not Ms whole character, but even any Individual—{Haar, heard.—He must be a man of
peculiarity of his character, to be judged.by such a miraculous sagacity, and he did not think the Noble
Aribututl; and as he would answer for himself, so he Lord (Castlereagh) that man, who could furetel what
might answer for the Queen. The elements and consequences might ensue from the conflicting ins • -
whole formation of the tribunal constituted, in his terests of the two parties, after this question were
mind, an unpardonable objection. With regard to once entered upon. He maintained that be Must be
the precedents, he must confess he was astonished to a bold man who would heedlessly plunge the NAP.
basal them mentioned as deserving any weight. The try into an inquiry of this kind, if there was a pos,si.•
practice of proceeding by green bags be wa,s aware bility of putting estop to it--:(Cheersfroar both rider).
had before been resorted to, in cases of High Tree- He most earnestly entreated the House, for the sake ..
son and Seditious Bills ; but he might say, that from of all the parties, for the sake of people,the. for the
his peculiar way of thinking on that subject, he did sake of their wives and daughters—(fkar, Hear).
not think the better of this proceeding on account- of that we might not again be placed in such a state,
the precederks afforded in those cases. But throw- that it was impossible to take up a newspaper which
ing those out of view, he came-to the precedents of did not contain something dangerous to morality. In
Bishop Atterbury and Sir Thomas Rumbold. The the name of HEAVDS, he implored them to wait for
charge against the latter person came, to be sure, a little, to see if it were not possible to do something .
out of Secret Committee, but then it was to be re- to put an end to this matter (Cheers). He was bound
membered that it arose incidentally—the Secret .to obey the commands of the Queen, whit; were
Committee sat upon subjects connected with East peremptory, to challenge this inquiry; yet, he would
India affairs, and the subject of the charge came Even venture to thWart her wishes, if it appeared so '
out unexpectedly ; and then the whole matter was him that there was yet any read open to negotiation.
finally investigated at the Bar of the House, and He was convinced, that if the inquiry were to be
witnesses regularly examined—(Hear, . hear!),— gone into, it would not he of that short duration -
He did not know what any accused person could anticipated by the Noble Lord. The Queen in
,wish better than this. Then, with respect to the case common justice, must be allowed to send HER green -
'of Bishop Atterbury, there was also this striking clif- bag down to the same Committee—(Hear, hear 1)
ferance, that there the Committee had the power to She must be allowed to bring witnesses to refute
examine witnesses.—[Lord CAsu.sanaun here inti- those brought against her—rand as she would, pros
mated that the present Committee'would also have bably, have to go to Milan to find them, the time
-the power of examining witnesses.]—Well then, it must be greatly lengthened; /or though the Milan
appeared they were to be allowed to examine wit- Board had sat for ten months, to find matter of ac-
nesse:, in the absence of the party accused, without cesation, which might not require ten days to lalOw
her Majesty knowing anything of them, who they into the air, yet it would be necessary to inquire into
were, or the nature of their testimony, and in the the character, spanner of life, etc. of witnesses, One-of .
elbsence of her Majesty's profession-al advisers. He the principal witnesses to be brought forward . ainst ..,..:-
would now come to the observations of the Noble the Queen, was a servant who was discharg froin
Lend with respect to the proposal made by Govern- her Majesty's Household for the crime of l'e ny-.4- ,
ibelit to the Illustrious Personage in question. The (Hear, hear)...and the peasant who was the witness
Noble Lord's arguments were correct in a constitu- of it was at this moment in the interior of tlitcolius.
tional point of view, as to the right of Government try, which was one of the numerous little ricsicren it• -
to make that offer, doing it merely under the expec- which must occur to create delay in proseenting-ak
tuition that Parliament would afterwards sanction it. inquiry of this nature. He who thought less the::
Whether the offer was to be viewed in thelight of a eight months would• terminate the affair, deciltest ':
'bribe or not, was not the question. The offensive himself egregiously. And eyen if icelesOnnly Ann:,
part of the proposal was, that £50,000 should be he entreated them to spare the country the sostOsir.-
given to her, not only on condition that she should the agitation, and vexation, that most result even for
live out of the country, which was in itself- a most that time. The Hon.'Gentleman remarked with great
*exceptionable proposition, but what appeared to him warmth on-the indignities to which her Majesty hail
infinitely worse, notwithstanding the special pleading been subjected abroad, by the behaviour of Foreign
pf the Noble Lord,: that a renunciation of title was Ministers and creatures, who thought it woulaget
nut a renunciation of rights—(Hear, hear, hear). favour with the British Government to offer her not
—But this part of the proposal he looked upon worthy wrongs. He instanced the withdrawing the
m. neither more nor less than calling upon the body-guard from the Queen by the Government of
Queen to say, that if she was not guilty, she was Ronl, as soon al it became known to the rope and
at least not altogether innocent—(Hear, hear, hear). Cardinals that her name had been left out of the -Li-
ne Noble Lord said, the Queen could r.ot be called turn 'after praying for her (hiving seventeen years,
'upon to renounce her regal rights, as it was not in There were two instances which he wished to point
her power to do so without the consent of Parliament, out respecting the conduct of Haneverian Ministers
This, in point of fact, was the case ; but why -then towards her Majesty while in Italy. The Baron
should she be called on to give up the exercise of Omptedit, who was on his way to Rome as nano. '
'them. She was to renounce the title and style of Tynan Minister('was most graciously received by her
Queen ; which, said the Noble Lord, was doing no Majesise. He insinuated himself into her boose.he
more than wasp rdinarily dot* by persons of rank partook largely of her hospitality for several moss,
when travellinabroad, who usually went under Noottwithstanding this atteption and kindness,- this
assumed names. But, he believed, it would be found, ifoarairatd9 Baron wits detected not 004 in, spying
that where a Royal Personage concealed their real into the conduct of her Majesty, eat only inbribing '
name and rank under a feigned name, it was always and corrupting her servants to give him information,
the name of One of the branches Of the same family ; but in having hired a blacksmith to make a key to
and' it was well known, at any rate, that this was open her private desk in order to investigate her
done solely with a view to the convenience of the papers! !—(Loud cries of Hear,. heir, hear!)--for.
party, and was only done pro tearpore. One express
.tunately. however, those papers so taken 'hewed this
condition in- the proposal to her Majesty was, that Gentleman was on the wrong scent, as in feet they .
'the should not only abandon bee own title, but proved her innocence instead of her guilt h—(ficai).--
that she should not take that of any other branch A young Gentle Mas, a lieutenant In 'the Navy, then
•ef the family. Observe 'again the difference be- about her Majesty's person, feeling for. the &meek
tween a person of fortune doing this as a matter of his Hoyt!) Mistress, challenged the. ArfoorwaGla
Of convenience, and for a season only, and of a Baron t the bluer, however, retreated to Mihua, iihere
person taking such a step for the sake of getting he took up so secret a position, as to be with itUfficialty
,E 50,000, and adopting it for ever—( Hear, hear).— found out. Driven from this retreat, he made a back-
Such had been the proposition made to her Majesty : ward movement, and hid himself in the mossetains ;
'strongly impressed as he was with the absolute neces- here again he was followed by the gallant Lieutiment,
shy of some amicable settlement being come to, he whose generous ardour surmounted all Ob§tlielOS P
S
had felt himself under the-painful necessity of advis- w:iile an engagement was daily expected, the Baron
ing her Majesty not to accede to the terms proposed Ompteda was kicked out of the Austrian tertiteeies
ttO her. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman
Ikea complained of the injury which had been done
.both to himself and his illustrious client, by the-erro-
neous statements which had got into the Daily Papers
of the part he performed in the negociatien at Saint
.Otter's. He would only state one specimen, and
leave the hisiuse to judge of its injurious effects. In,
one of the Daily Prints it had been stated, that after
her Majesty had expressed 'her indignation at the
proposition made to her, he (Mr. Brougham) courts
sealed her Majesty not to accept the proposal. If
word after were to be erased, and the word before pus
in its place, the case would be rightly stated. lie had,
anticipated her Majesty in counselling her sties:dime!
Who was, however extremely ready to express her_ia-,
liguasims. The !loyal Personage in question had
Mace eonfira4 the truth of the statement he Awl
Made,,. Hp Willtjhe more reason to complain of.tb
.. I
, as in ;silk,: Pablic Journal (lie-Afornig Pol.
. taken- with the nentes'of Lord Hutchinson nix)
.bad-been repellant, meta- mbst•unwenrainame:l6)
itiiiiseif• inefaiuth sCin'avgntneint was .bulk epee
.. .

t

not, be it observed, for having acted a% a .....--
ap ' -4iiifoo
the Queen, not for the crime of 4 lavink_
~14'. . • liii*
Majesty's private -papers—but fOr having. r 4
will* eji
fight a duel, when openly called Cu .",tliat pip.
pose-.{Hear, hear, hear).—This minal4diOted that
basely in' order to pax' court to his eMplikter,...:.
The Hanoverian Minister,. Ilecling, went farthenAe
would not recognize her either as Queen ofEigland
or, princess of Wales ; hi Sometimes called her VirO,
-line of Brunswick, a title which her Majesty' bciri.be
fore her marriage, and. sometimes, "'O.:aro:int of
goglaskir a title which her Majesty never did,.*and
never WWII bear. Ja.,facr,. be would tall ber :MI
thingtrathar than Queen of England ; and tiai -L • :
lisp hit:lilies whO tnifea in his society*aiera...... ; -7.:
beg; . thesappollanoiio iiiiiiid' to 'ihe . A 7,. ~.:iw
Eitgiod, This wasdooe for 041 it
_trim? : ;•s
i
spurt to his presi!nt'l4.4jesty,.. ifrj)?*,!!'l,/`;. z. '..1
ling: of a rnnce, a. gentlf4o4siztddli2.,,,
Okir,. .0 ' receive., ,air . iiii;;7 ,4, e;
,4,•
which cast an insult a_pOillii. 1,40 : ; l.,
The 1-140ourab). and.Learited
...
..f, .