Star.
London, England, 1819-11-25 00:00:00

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 25, 1819.

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, NOVEMBER 24.
About half-past one o'clock, the Loan CHANCELLOR and Suite
came down to the House. Ills Lordship wore his robes of
State, and a number of Peers attended in Court or Military
dresses.

The Marquis of CHOLMONDRLEY (Lord Steward) ac-
quainted the House with his Royal Highness the Prince Re-
gent's pleasure to receive their Lordships Address this day, at
two o'clock.
The Bishop of Ecennt (one of the Irish Representative Pre-
lates) took the o..ths and his seat.
Their Lordships then, having previously adjourned the House
till to-morrow, proceeded in &ate to Carlton House, with their
Address to his Royal Highness the Paixcx Raisztix.
HOUSE OF COMMONS. •
Lord CASTLEREAQH presented Papers relative to the
state of the'Country, comprising extracts from letters from the
Magistrates of Lancashire to Lord Sidmouth, dated July, 1818,
a letter from Mr. Spooner, a Magistrate of Warwick, and other
documents.

The Papers being brought up, were ordered to lie on the table.
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated the documents just presented
to be already printed. He added, they would .be ready to be
delivered to Members, at the door of the House, lu aif hour.
On the motion of Lord CASTLEREAGH, the usual Stand-
ing Orders of the House were renewed, and the Standing Corn-1
mittees revived.
It was ordered that nc Petition for a Private Bill should be
received after the 10th December ; that no Private Bill should
be read a first time after the 6th March, and that no Report of
a Private Bill should be received after the Ist of May, 1850.
The customary Order with respect to the precedence of Orders
and Notices on particular days, was made.
The Order of the Day being read for resuming the

ADJOURN ED DEBATE.
Mr. HUME rose to speak.
Mr. V. BLAKE rose to order. Adverting to
the Adjournment of the Debate on the Address,
which had been come to on the preceding night, he
observed, it must be the wish of the Speaker and of
the House, to regulate their proceedings by the laws'
of Parliament. Deciding as they had done, in his
humble judgment they had departed from those laws.
The SPEAKER said, if the impression made on
his mind by what had just fallen from the Honour,
able Member, was an incorrect one, he was sure that
the House and the Honourable Gentleman would
pardon him. If he rightly recollected what had just.
been said, it was the object of the Honourable Mem-,
ber to rescind or alter the Resolution come to on the
preceding night.
Mr. V. BLAKE stated his object to be, not to
rescind the Resolution, but to guard against its being
drawn into a precedent for the time to come.
The SPEAKER never understOod that it was the
wish of the Honourable Gentleman not to dlter or'
rescind the Resolution, but to guard against its being
drawn into a precedent. It was not for him (the
Speaker) to say what course the Honourable Member
or the House should take hereafter ; but a question
like that which he wished to bring under its consi-
deration, ought not to be brought on without due
notice being given. It ought not to be blended with
any other subject ; it could not be suffered to inter-
vene like an ordinary question of privilege; the O-
rder of the Day having been read for resuming the
Adjourned Debate, no other business.could then be
discussed.
Mr. V. BLAKE again rose to speak, but was in-
terrupted by loud calls for Mr. HUME to proceed.
He still endeavoured to obtain a hearing, but without
Success.
The SPEAKER wished it to be understood, that
what he had meant to say came to this—that what-
der ulterior object the Honourable Gentleman might
have in view, it was disorderly in himself to 'propose
that any question but that. on the Address should be
entertained at present.
Mr. V. BLAKE attempted to explain, but could
net be heard amidst the calls of 4‘ Order !" which
burst from all parts of the House.
Mr. HUME hoped the adjournment of the debate
would have the good effect of proving whether or
not the statements made by the Noble Lord oppo;
site, on the preceding night, were or were not cor-
rect ? If what he had advanced was really entitled
to credit, he ought to afford them some proofs of its
accuracy, which were wanting at present. He (Mr.
Hume) admitted that a spirit of insubordination was
abroad, but he contended that nothing-hadheen done
by Ministers in the way of conciliation to repress it.
Instead of removing the grievances which gave rise
to it, the Government had determined on augment-
ing the Army ; and now, in a time of profound peace,
the bustle of recruiting was seen in every country
town, and all the preparation that usuay marked an
effort to oppose an external enemy, was now making
to oppose our fellow-countrymen. He could not
vote for that part of the Address which went to
approve of the addition of 12,000 men to the Army.
The statement in the Speech, that our present em-
barrassments arose from the distressed situation of
the other countries in Europe, he did net believe to
be completely borne out by facts. The Amendment
had his entire approbation, as it merely went to
pledge the House to an inquiry, which, in the pre-
sent circumstances of the country, was absolutely ne-
cessary. The assertion of the Noble Lord, that the
proceedings which actually took place at Manches-
ter were not intended to take place, and were not
and r the direction of the Magistrates, made inquiry
the more desirable. What would have been said of
the Military if they had turned about, and attacked
the Magistrates instead of the People? After the No-
ble Lord's statement, it appeared that they had just as
good a right to do this as they had to do what had
been done. The Papers laid before the House did
not bear out the Noble Lord in the statements lie
had made. There was nothing about the Riot Act
being read three times. The Noble Lord had stated
one Magistrate, who went to read the Riot Act to
the crowd, to Lave been trodden down by the mob.
He had not mentioned who that Magistrate was.
Why did he not tell them his name ? He (Mr.
Hume) hoped the N(hle Lord would make out that
which had been stated to the House, but no proof
at
it appeared in the Papers now laid before them.—
Mr. Norris would have bees likely to speak of the
readings of the Riot Act, but all he said on this sub-

ject was contained in one line—" in the mean time
the Rioi.Act was read, and the mob dispersed." If
ever any circumstance called for inquiry, it was that
to which public attention was now directed, and that
inquiry could not be satisfactorily conducted in a
Court of Law--(Loud er?es of Hear, hear, hear).—A
Learned Gentleman had said, there were four causes
that would make a Meeting illegal—" Numbers,
devices, arms, and threatening language." He wished
to know what Statute determined the number that
made a Meeting illegal? Of the existence of such a
law, he confessed he was wholly ignorant. It was
said, the numbers of a Meeting might be so great
that it could not be controuled by the civil power.
He would admit, that when great numbers of per-
sons assembled, when it was found that they could
not be coerced by the civil POwer, and when they
were engaged in doing any thing improper and un-
lawful, then, and then only might a military force
be resorted to with propriety. With all respect for
the Learned Gentleman who had made the asser-
tion to which he alluded, he could not think what
ha had...raid with• respect to the numbers attending a
Meeting was law on this side of the water, whatever
it might be on the bther. He then argued, at some
length, that the Meeting at Manchester hail not been
illegal. If it had been so, how culpable were those
who approved of its dispersion, in not bringing any
of those who had attended it .to justice before this
time! He gave the Noble Lord credit for .sincerely
believing what he had stated ; but he would ask,
what confidence ought the Noble Lord and his col-
leagues to place in Mr. Norris, and those acting.un-
der him, or at least in the reports which they might
make, when it was known, that a day or two after
the 15th, they had hastily shut up the Exchange at
Manchester, and reported that an army of 15,000
Radicals were then advancing to fire the town,
and plunder its inhabitants ? After this, he would
insist that any representation which they might make
ought to be received with great caution. If the coup.
Itry was disturbed, it ought not to be supposed that
it could be tranquillized by injustice and severity.—
A different course must be pursued. If Ministers
wished to check discontent, their conduct had been
most impolitic. Those who now laboured to inflame
the passions of the people, had been lifted from in-
.significance to importance by the- injudicious pro-
ceedings of the Government. He reminded the
House of the causes which had produced the French
Revolution, and called upon them to proceed with
caution, and to labour to conciliate, rather than to
irritate the people. The Amendment, he thought,
pledged the House to nothing that was at all objec-
tionable, for in, his view of the subject some inquiry
Was absolutely necessary, as nothing but inquiry
could vindicate the conduct of the Magistrates, and
satisfy the country. -
Lord CASTLEREAGH rose. to explain a part of
what he had said on ill: former night,. as he-had
been misrepresented, in consequence of being mis-
conceived by the flopourable Gentleman who had
just sat down. His assertion that the Meeting was
dispersed in a manner in which the, Manchester Ma-
gistrates had not contemplated 'that it would be dis-
persed, even when they cnnsidered it to be an illegal
Meeting, had been referred to ; and it was assumed
from this, that the Meeting bad been illegally dis-
d, without the sanction of the Magistrates.—
C:t he had said was, that the leaders had been
seized, and every preparation made for dispersing
the Meeting under the Riot Act, and every possible
means were adopted for giving notice to the crowd
of this their intention. That which ensued, he had
stated to be the consequence of an .attack made on
the Military at the hustings by an armed mob. The
Honourable Member had assumed what then took
place to have been unauthorized by the Magistrates.
He (Lord Castlereagh) had assumed that it was in
self-defence that they had acted, which gave them a
right of repelling force by force. That House, he
had said, was not the place where facts like these
could be established, so as to enable them to render
substantial justice to the parties; but he bad felt
,himself called upon to oppose assertion by assertion.
The dispersion of the Meeting, effected as it had
been, the Honourable Member assumed to be illegal,
'because it had not been in the contemplation of the
Magistrates. He (Lord Castlereagh) held it to have
been justified on the principle of self-defence. He
bad now to state a fact which he had not been able
Ito communicate last night. lie had now to inform
the House, that the dispersion had taken place under
the immediate orders of a Magistrate. He would
narrate the. circumstances ;—A-.small corps of the
Yeomanry (about 40 in number) went among the
crowd to support the Constable in the .performance
of his duty. When they arrived at the hustings a
iconflict was commenced, in consequence (as he was
informed) of an attack made on the soldiers. One
of the Magistrates, who observed from a window
near the spot what was passing, and who, with Co.,lonels Ltstrange and Dalrymple, saw these 40 o
the Yeomanry not only assailed, but, as it appeared
to them, overwhelmed by the crowd, said to the
Officers, " Do you not see the perilous situation in
which the Yeomanry are. placed ?" and upon that
gave them orders to support the Yeomanry and dis-
perse the Meeting. In consequeuce,of this, the lah
Regiment and the Cheshire Yeomanry,' which form-
ed the supporting force, advanced, and the Meeting
Was dispersed. is:ow, passing to. another point, he
begged to say, that he had not stated the whple of
the inforMation on which Ministers had formed their
judgment to be contained in the Papers laid on the,
table that night. For the remark made on Mr.
'Norris, that he had not mentioned the three readings
of the Riot Act,. he did not see much, in k. How
could it be expected.' after. such a day of tumult, and
after a night disturbed by frequent riots, that he, at
twelve o'clock at night, could give all ..the partial-
iars of what had occurred in the day in a hasty letter.
it was, not, however, till a full explanation had been
received, that conviction was prodhuced
had on the rnind
trait-
si
of Ministers, whicheyerr.thing tat since
• • . t`P