Star.
London, England, 1827-05-08 00:00:00

possessed that tto the greate.t perfestio 1. If the
opportunity were denied of entering
.on the inqiiity
which it was the object of thii motion to obtain, the
result, he feared, would be• ruincus to the shippin
interest, and perilous to the Government by which that
inquiry was refused. Before the next meeting of Par-
liament the subject would be agitated at every place
where the shipping interest was affected, and a pamphlet
war would ensue in which the question espoused by his
Right Hon. F. iend and its supporters might meet with
a defeat by no menu convenient. Avowing this to be
his impression, he solemnly declared that in bringing
forward the present motion he was wholly uninfluencied
•by party feelings. He had no personal animosities to
gratify, no personal attachment to any man-(Hear,
and laughter). He declared he had no with to attack
the administration of to-day, more than the adminis-
tration by which it was preceded-(Hear). His Ho-
nourable Friend, the Member for Londonderry, had
busied himself in scrutinizing the votes of the Hon.
Member for Winchelsea and others, in order to thew
on how many questions those individuals had divided
against the Government; and if a like scrutiny of
votes were to take place with reference to the ship.
ping question, it would be found that a great msjority
of the Members of that House had always supported
au inquiry. So help his head (A laugh), he was influ-
enced by no party feeling in bringing forward the
present motion, and had no other object in view than
simply to accomplish a. pledge made to his cons i-
tuents, and which if he omitted to fulfil, he con•
ceived he should neglect his duty. He hoped the
House would treat the great • question now under dis-
cussion with becoming temperance. and 'that no party
•
feelings would thew themselves on this occasion-(Hear,
hear). For his own part, he. was moot anxious to assure
the House that he dis:laimed any desire of tampering or
harassing the Government. He had given notice of this
motion long before a c`tange in the Administration was
ever thought of. He hoped, therefore, that his Right
Hon. Friend would not refuse the motion with which he
intended to conclude. The Gallant General then moved
-as That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire
into the present clisttesmd state of the commercial slip-
ping, and report the same to the House."
Mr. LIDDELL secondetthe motion, and bore the testimony of
personal -experience to the distressed conditiqpi of the Shipping
trade in North Shields and the Northern Pais. Ile was sure,
without some alteration in the present system of the Navigation
saws, there was an end to the commercial marine of Great Bri-
tain. • In 1816, the tonnage of that marine was 2,783,945; in 1826,
it was only 2,636,646. But the great point in the case of the
British Ship Owners was the Baltic trade-that is the trade of
Sweden, Norway, and Prussia, which in 1821 amounted to 91,147
tons; in 1822, to 133,151; in 1823, to 202,100; in 1824, to
324,868; in 182.5. to 395,342; the returns of 1826 were not given,
only as far as the clearing the Out-poets was concerned. Again, in
1821, the excess of British vessels owe, Foreigner was 23,911 tons;
is 11127, 4,014; but in 1823, the year after she lieciprocity Act was
passed, the excess of Foreign tonnage over British was 867; in
1824, 8,840; in 1825, 1,700; in 1826, 15,300. The state of the
Dock-yards (empty) at the several ports of the empire was in itself
a commentary upon the Reciprocity System, which should not have
been enacted without the minutest inquiry; and which should be re-
pealed to ensure the stability of the empire; •
Mr. P. THOMPSON must oppose the motion of the Hon. and
Gallant General, as he thought no case was made out for the Com-
mittee of Inquiry ; and u granting it would be a departure trona
the firm course of liberal policy pursued by Ministers, and would
be giving rise to falbcious hopes in the minds of interested, but short-
sighted, individuals. The statements of the Hun. Member who
preceded him were not (Duly ex-parte, but actually erroneous, and
the et/Delusion contrary tis fact. Much stress was laid upon the fall
in the price of dripping. Now if that fail were partial it would be
• just ground of complaint and inquiry; but it was not mote
than the fall of price in every article, as indicated by the
London Prier Correof Of the last year, of the very present
month-(Hear, hear). Again, much was said of the diminu-
tion in British ship building consequent upon the Reciprocity
Lawscif 1822. What was the fact authentic and unquestionable '
documents must answer. In the year 1819 the tonnage of vessels
built in Great Britain was 111,000 tons; in 1820. 84,000; in 18E1,
74,000; in 1822, 67.000 ; in 1823, 85,000 ; in 1874. 143,000; in
111116, 204,000; 311t1 in 1826, 178,000: showing that in 1825 the
building trade W/4 nearly four times as much as in 1872, and In
1826 nearly three times as much. The Honourable member urged
at considerable length the necessity of maintaining the liberal sys-
tem of commeiciai policy in our intercourse with foreigners; and
contended that the statements of the Honourable and Gallant Mem-
ber (Gascoyne) were either unfounded or es pares. The tonnage of
British and foreign vessels was given, without any esptanation of
the difference (from one third to a half) between the register and.
the burthen ton. If such statements were given, it would be seen
that the British ship-builder could work as cheaply as the foreigner.
All the statements of the ship-owners were contradicted by tact;
and were got up for a purpose. The Honourable Member replied
in detail to these statements. Their own admissions furnished their
own refutation. A few years ago. to 1823, they said that the Him-
burgh trade was in the hands of the Dutch; that out of 208 vessels,
but twelve were ISritish, while in 1826, out of 800 vessels in Ham-
burgh, 712 were British-( Hear, hear). The Hon. Member hoped
the House would not accede to the motion, as no case bad been
made out, and as granting it would be injurious to the Free Trade
Policy; and sat down amid loud cheers.

Sr J. YORK and Mr. Maxims rose at the same time, but
the former having 4r,t caught the Seemtea's eye, proceeded to say,
that, es a British Admiral, be felt himself bound to protect the in-
terests of the British commercial marine. A great empire like this,
surrounded by those waters which were her protection, bad the
deepest interest in supporting her marine, both commercial and min.
tary. Without being &party man, he must beg leave to dissent from
the speech of the young and Hon. Member who spoke last. Being con-
nected with those northern houses which could sail ships at a very low
rate, he did not perhaps feel as much as others the distress that pi eased
upon the shipping interest. Who could doubt the fact that distress pre-
vailed when they saw so many brooms stuck at mast heads—(A
laugh.)—and hundreds of Blida seamen walkiag about the attests
for want of employment. He should vote for the motion of the
GaUaut General if he saw reason for it, and he hoped every
British Admiral in the House would do the same, and not sut.
fer his jaws to be locked up by anything the Right lion. Gentle-
man at the bead of the Board of Trade might say,whose talents were
such as enabled him to make the worst appear the better cause.—
He misted the House would suffer themselves to be influenced in
their votes by noting: but facts.
Mr. HUSKISSON rose amid great cheering. He
said that he did not regret having given way to the
Gallant Admiral who had jest addressed the House;
though he would leave it to judge how far, in point of
tact, the Galla..t Admiral's observations added %eight
to tie motion which he had risen to support. Tile
Gallant Admiral had cautioned the House not to allow
itself to be misled by theoretical arguments, which were
calculated to make the worse appear the better reason ;
and then, in refutation of his oat n doco we, had appealed
to facts which had no existence, saving in his own ima-
gination. Leaving, howeser, the Gallant Admiral's
observations to their own weight, he would ask the
House to allow him, before he proceeded to make those
observations which it was the duty of the individual a ho
filled his official situation to make upon the motion of
his Hon. Colleague. he would ask the House, he said,
to allow him to offer to it his acknowledgments for
the kindness with which it had repeatedly postponed
the discussion of this great question during his unavoid-
able absence from its debates. He could assure the
House that it was always with regret that he abstained
from the performance of his public duty. That regret
was increased in the present instance by Parliament
having at the same time under its consideration another
question ot'great importance—he meant the Corn Laws
-in-which reference had been repeatedly made to the
opinions which be had advocated, and to II part
which be bad taken apes former occasions, wheals was,

under Ji cu ssion. Of thr ref rteace, anJ of the el' i
madversions which were stimultaneously made upon hi,
conduct, he had no right to complain. lion. Members
did no more than their duty in %sleeting to his opinions,
and in pointing out the errors which, in their judgment,
they tontabled ; and probably they thought, that
though he was not present at the time when they made
their aninizdv..rsions, he would have opportunities of
vindicating their correctness at some future period,
when he was able to take a share in the deliberations of
Parliament. Whilst he felt nothig but thankfulness for
the considerati .n with which he had been treated by
Gentlemen of all parties in that House, he was sorry to
say that he was not in the same disposition as to the
manner, altogether unprovoked, in which his conduct
had been adverted to in another place, where he was
unable to defend himself f•om attack. He was speaking
of a place, in which, neither in health nor in sickness,
neither in office nor out of office, neither with his will
nor against his will, was he ever likely to meet the in-
drvidual who had made such unjust and unjustifiable
charges against him--(Cheers) —lt might suit the taste
and it might be congenial to the feelings of that indi-
vidual, to represent him in a place where he could not
refute the calumny, as a wild theorist, who was ready
to attempt any kind of experiment, no intuit how ha-
zardous it might be to the peace and interest of the
country, provided it squared with his views of political
economy. The individual to whom he was alluding
used language even still stronger than that which he
had just repeited—he had gone the length of saying
that he (Mr. Huskisson) had palmed me ,sores upon the
House and upon the country under false pretences—
(Cl les of Hear, and Order).
Mr. CRESSETT PRLIIA kl, afrer a long and nolsy effort to
make himself heard, complained that the Right Hon. Gentleman
was clearly out of order, as no was alluding to expressions which
had been used in debate In the other Muse of Parliament.
Mr. HUSKISSON.—" If an allegation—an unjust
and unfoundel allegation (loud cries of s Hear' from all
parts of t•-.e Hooter) is made against me, I must answer
it when I can—(Great cheering). If my character is
assailed in ano her place—l said not where (a laugh)_
in which I cannot be heard, I must take an opportunity
of defending it here where I can..(Hear). It has
been stated by a Noble Lord that I have palmed a mea-
sure of importance upon the House and upon the
country. under false pretences—in a word, that I have
been guilty of a gross political fraud—(Hear). It is an
old and a true observation, that the individuals who are
most ready to follow a course of fraud- and imposition
themselves, are always the most ready to charge such a
course upon others—(Hear, bear). I am not now at
liberty to refer to the details of the charges which were
so falsely and so unjustifiahly made against me, for if I
were to enter upon them, 1 should depart too far from
the question which is at present before the House. But
this I will say, I have now been a Member of Parliament
for upwards of 30 years, and from the first moment that
I had the honour otos seat in this House down t' the
present, I have always considered myself liable to
that moral responsibility to which every other Member
of Parliament is liable, be his rank or station in the
country what it may. To that moral responsibility,
which constitutes the strongest guarantee for integrity
of character in public men, and which is nourished and
sustained by public opinion, I am not unwilling at pre-
sent to plead—(Hear, bear). I am equally ready to meet
that more direct responsibility to which, as Minister of
the Crown, I am liable for this or any other measure
which I may feel it my duty to propose—(Cheers).
`Make this declaration as .• to my feelings and to my
readiness to meet the charges which have been brought
against me, without the slightest reserve. I will not
add a word more upon it, because I cannot speak
further of myself without incurring the charge of arro-
gance. But with regard to the individual who has thus
unprovokedly accused me, I will say, that I have ob-
served his conduct narrowly for the last 85 years; that
I have read all the various pamphlets with which he
has enlightened the wotld during that period, from his
first down to his last—l mean his Chart on the Corn
Laws, and in stating that I have read all his luCubrations,
I think I have performed More than any Gentleman
Who now hears me either has performed or will here-
after attempt to-perform (a laugh); and that the result
of my observation and of my reading is—that among
the many blessings which PIOVIDENCIt vouchsafed to
the country during the eventful petiod which has
elapsed since the commencement of the revolutionary
war in 1792, it is not the least that we have escaped the
calamity of seeing that indiiidual clothed with power
to carry
,his own wild and extravagant theories—for
they are indeed wild and extravagant when compared
with mice—into execution, either on this country or
on that numerous population dependent on it in other
parts of the world—(lmmense cheering). As we have
escaped from that calamity so long, I trust that we
shall escape from it to the last"—(Hear, hear, hear).—
To come, however, to the question, and he begged
pardon for having been diverted from it so long, he
rejoiced most sincerely that his Honourable and Gal-
lant Colleague had brought forward Iris present motion
—not only because it gave him (Mr. Huskisson) an
opportunity, which he wanted, for explanation upon
this subject, but because it gave the Hon. Member for
Northumberland an opportunity of 'hewing the clear
and able mariner in which he can express his views on
an abstruse and intricate question, and of giving the
House a promise of talent, which might hereafter ac•
complish snit greater success. It had also afforded the
Hon. Member for Diver an opportunity of manifesting
a degree of knowledge and information on this stibj co
which had afforded the H ruse no less plerstne than in-
structioo—(Cries of " Hear"). Among the many singular
statements of his Hon. and gallant Colleague, that was
not the least singular in which he stated that for the last
two or three years the House had beers overwhelmed
with Petitions from the shipowners of all the ports
in the country, complisining of distress, and that the
Government had paid no attention to them whatever.
Now it appeared to him a little extraordinary to charge
Government with neglect in this instance. For what
was• the real state of the case? Last year a number
of Petitions were presented—what became of them ?
The gentlemen who presented them moved nothing
more than that they should be laid on the table and be
printed. Now, if a perusal ci those Petitions had
led him to suppose that the shipping interest of the
country was really endangered, he should have felt that
it was incumbent upon him, holding the office which
he held in the Government, to have inquired narrowly
into the matter; and, as a proof of such a disposition
on his part, he refer led to the statement which he had
given in the last Session, of his own accord, of the real
situation of the commercial marine of the country—
(Hear, hear). He made that statement with a
view of calming the apprehensions which prevailed
respecting an interest so nearly connected with
...the bloour and the safety of the empire. He

declared at tl,e same time the principles on which he
had proposed the alterations in the navigat on laws.—
He had also an opportunity of shewing the House the
growth of our commercial marine since the year 1792:
of comparing our means at present with our means at
other periods; and of explaining to the House the op-
portunities which we had of maiming our military navy
irnmedia ely, whenever a naval armament should he
suddenly required. He had also compared our means,
increased as they were within that period, with the
means of other countries, aiming to be our rivals, not
our enemies, in maritime affairs—(Hear, hear).—
The statement which he then made was now before
the public, and in such a shape that any Gentleman
who did him the honour to refer to it might hold him
responsible for its correctness. That st element had
been made the ground of much criticism; and,
sorry he was to say, it had been much misrepre-
sented. The misrepresentations, too, were so gross
and so extravagant, that he was kfraid that he must
consider them as wilful misrepresentations. He trusted
that be should have an opportunity that evening to set
himielf right as to those misrepresentations ; and it was
the more important that he should do so, as in setting
himself right he should vindicate the Government of
the country and the late Parliament, which had san:-
tioned the mea,nres which had bean proposed either
by himself or his Right Honourable Fr lend, who was
now a Member of the other House, forthe benefit of the
commercial interests of the country. He said, that if
the House would hear him with patience, and his own
physical powers would permit, he would overthrow
the sophisms of his adversaries, which had been
already sufficiently overthrown by the Honourable
Member for Dover—(Hear, bets, bear). He knew
that he could do so, and in doing so he would take
an opportunity of repelling the calumnies which had
been cast upon himself. Let not the authors of those
calumnies be afraid that 'he should retort upon them the
vulgar abuse which they had showered in such pro-
fus on upon him. He would not descend into that
arena, where it was no honour to be the victor, and
where to be vanquished was disgrace indeed. Tne only
punishment which he would inflict on those who
used such vituperative language was, the knowledge
that it had fallen innoxious upon him, and that he dis-
dained to use it as a weapon of defence in a just cause,
though they had not hesitated to wield it as a weapon
of offence in an unjust one—(Hear, hear). But though
he would forbear tram noticing their vulgar abuse, Ise
could not promise to use the same forbearance as to the
arguments, the statements, the sophism., and, he must
even add, the falsehoods, in which they de It with so
much unblushing liberality—(Hear, heat). Even with
respect to the shipowners themselves, in whom any irri-
tation arising from pressure might afford an excuse for
the employment of much language which might have
been better spayed, he would not beguilty of the offence
of not stating the truth, though by speaking out he might
perhaps forfeit their good will, and sen 1 them home dig..
sat.fied with the result of the present debate. He was
fully aware of all the disadvantages under which he
approached the discussion of this gteat question. They
had been already stated by the Honourable Member for
Dover. He was also aware that in a case like this,
Gentleman wete often obliged—for which he did not
blame them—to yield to the wishes of their consti-
tuents. He was aware' that even *anaorg those who
had no constituents connected with the shipping interests
an active canvass had been carried on by the delegates
from the ovtports, and that es-parte statements, which
ought and should be exposed, had. been used without
scruple to bias their minds. He likewise was aware
that every thing connected with the shipping interests
was so connected with the honour of the country, with
its naval ascendancy, with its greatness, and with its
pride, that in proportion to the magnitude of the inter. st
which it excited, was the facility. of Hon. Gentlemen to
listen to every thing which appeate..l to affect it. He
knew there had been incessant attempts for mouths past
to enlist the natural, and he would even say the laudable
feelings of Englishmen'against every thing which was
calculated to advance improvement in the commercial
relations of the country. No:withstanding all these
considerations, and making allowance for those Mem-
bers who would vote in favour of his Hon. and Gallant
Colleague's motion, in deference to the wishes, if not
to the judgments, of their constituents, he felt that in
whatever degree those considera ions might tell in the
division, it was his duty to 01l the House of the facts
fairly as they stood. He trusted that ivd victuals would
not come to the discussion of this great and import-
ant questii n as they did to the des cuseon of private
Bills, with their votes pledged down to support some
petty and partial in etest, bat that tl.ey would come
to it with the intention of pronouncing impartial
judgment on the statements which may be made,
and the facts which may he bronglit before them.
He felt himself somewhat at a loss, owing to the
difficult es imposed upon him by the manner in
wbch the subject had beet treated—difficulties, he
meant, as to the way in which he shruld deal with the
statements so made. The parties to w: ram he referred
(he meant tile shipowners) ap eared to employ a logic
quite pe:uliar to themselves -a logic which he (Mr.
Huskisson) knew not how to designs e, u.,less he de-
scribed it as that which prevai:ed ame ngst philosophers
during the dark ages. It was not front fa ts, from ob-
servation, from experience, from a knuwiedge of what
was passing before them, that these g: nilemen drew
their conclesion. They seemed 'to revive the exploded
arguments toed last Session, to induce the House to re-
cede from its altered policy with regard to the silk.trade.
The course then was to assume, as an incontrovertible fact, that if
the measure was carried, our silk trade would be rorstsd out and
utterly dissipated. If their premises were admitted, it was easy to
make the Inferences drawn from it. We were told of 500,000 helpless
women and children, as well as workmen, all subsisting upon the
silk trade, who would be left to starve, with a thou-and other hor-
rible consequences; and because he (Mr. liusitisson) presumed to
doubt all this, he was stigmatised as a hard-heat tea metaphysician
—( Hear, and a laugh). The House agreed with him (Mr. H.) that
all the superstructure raised upon this basis was flimsy, and the mea-
sure was allowed to take its course; and now it was with no little
satisfaction he stated to the House, that during the distresses of the
pass year, no one branch of trade had suffered so little, and was now
su a more nourishing condition than the silk teal —(lased cheer;.
The result of a free competition was this, that the nit nwitsfactute
had made much progress throughout the country, and that we were
Dow expottieg to France more or less of our silk g vols ; nay, some
houses were actually making Bandana hand lactate& for the sr-
po-e of exporting them to India—(Hear hear, and • laugh)—
But the shipowners went further than the parties to whom he
alluded; they nut only assumed what were to be the measures of
Government, but they pronounced what bad been already the effects
of them—namely, that the shipping. interest wee in a state of t0t..1
decay, lie (Mr. i luskisson) had taken the trouble to read all the
petitions which had been presented to the House on the part of the
shipowners, and be could state that there was not one which did
not proceed upon the principle that the foreign shipping bad in-
creased, and British skipping had decreased; and some were bold
enough to say that we 'bong soon coach such a condition that fo-
reign shipping would supersede the Mesh In the foreign trade of
the country. This brought the .telject to the tri.l of an issue 11f
fact. If the fact were capable of bang established, as coots*4. a•
the inferences might be correct, and we shou.d tben bi gln to cc