Star.
London, England, 1827-04-07 00:00:00

HIMAN CA THOLTC%

Admiral SOTHILRON presented a Petition from Nit.
inghata. signed by 1.000 persons, against a-y Wither
.-caiticessions to the Roman Catholies.—The question
`being put, that the Ntitinn be brought up,
Lord CH A NDOS said, he wished to take that oppor-
of putting a que.t,on to the Attorney-General for
`. It would be in the recollection of the House
Act was passed, two years back, for the pur-
putting down till Catholic A s sciation. lie
. to know from the Right 119nourable Gentle-
why that Aet had not been carried into effect? or,
inadequate to the purpose, whether it was not
'motion, its the present Session of Parliament, to
se any alterations in it?
'LUNKETT said the Noble Lord addressed goes-
i.ntlieidually, which he, individually, did not
terhimself tailed upon to answer. AU be could say
tat he bad tie concurrence of those with whom he
'As to any new regulations to give it more effect,
formed no intention of proposing any. It be-
to his Majesty's Government to propose alters.-
I they thought it necessary. The Secretary for
;Lome Department, or his Right Honourable Fri. ad
Secretary for Ireland, would, be had no doubt, be
- give the Noble Lord the answers be desired. As
second question, why the Act had not been car-
. into effect, that question implied the affirmation of
proposition. If the Noble Lord thought there had
-n neglect on his part or that of the Government, he
make it the subject of a motion. Should the
Losd do so, he should have no difficulty in an-

sstsering him. The Noble Lord Would permit him to
say, that the way to bring on'a subject of so moth int-
portapre was not by a question on a petition. If the
Noble lorehad the same arduous and delicate ta.k to
discharge that fell to hii share, he would and it difficult
enough without answcriog questions of this kind. He
had done nothing in the business without the full con-1
currence of his Majesty's Government.
General GAtSCOYNE said he did not think the an-
swer given by the Right Hon. Gentleman by any means
a sati,factoty one. lie trusted the Noble Lord would
not be content with it, but follow up the subject by a

notice of motion.
Mr. A. BARING hoped the House would not per•
mit a subject of this kind to be followed up, and
brought into discussion incidentally:
Sir G. WARRENDER said it was quite unusual to
raise adebate on a question being put to any Honour-

able Member.
The SPEAKER slid, the case stood thug. An Hon.
Member presented a Petition against any further con•
cession to the Roman Catholics. On the motion that
.the Petition be brought up, a Noble Lord put a ques-
tion, having some connect:on with the subject of tbei
Petition, to the Right Hon. Gentleman the Attorney
3enerar for Ireland. This was followed up by another
Honourable Member (General G escoyne) by some ob-
servations having relation to the question put by the
Noble Lord. It was for the House to say whether ct
not the questions of the Noble Lord had sufficient con-
nection with the Petition to warrant their introduction /I
He should be very glad—it would be most convenient
for the House, and would rand much to expedite bud- i
if every Honourable Member should consider
-11IsCself precluded from ernerAing in the slightest de-
gree from the four cot ners of a Petition.
General GASCOYNE said, he must again repeat,
that the ansnter of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Plunkett) was unsatisfactory, and he trusted the Noble
Lord would give notice of a motion on the subject.
C tlonel TRENCH rose amidst loud cries of " Quesr
'dna." As.he had not before addressed the House on
Aids subject, `be hoped they would attend to him.—
[(Groaning.) Be would spew that the Catholic Asso-
ciation ought to be put down.—(Coughing) Ile ob-
jected to it, because of the inflammatory speeches made
at its Meetings, and he might add, the inflammatory
speeches made elsewhete—(Cheers and laughter)—
tended to keep alive a feeling bordering on fury. There
were the combustibles, and here stood a man, with a
match in his hand, to set light to them. (Laughter,
cheering, and cries of 0 Name, name.) He was called
upon for the name, but he should ex .raise his own dis-
tr!etion—(Cheers). He would repeat, there were the
.combustioles, and here stood the man with the match.
The Hon. Gentleman accompanied his observation with
significant actions, which appeared to refer to the
Gentlemen on the Treasury Bench—(Cries of" Name,
name.") In 179$ it was imputed to those who governed
Ireland, that they fostered the rebellion in order the
better to effect the Union ; and he thought the Catholic
'Association was now allowed, that the Catholic Ques-
tion might be carried by menace ; but he hoped to GOD
the time was not yet arrived when measures were to be
carried by such means—(Groans and cries of " Name,
name"). He believed Gentlemen continued to call
upon him for the name of the individual to whom he
had refened, to betray him into the commission of an
iadiscr etion, by exciting the natural impetuosity of his
temper—(Great laughtet) B.tt they would be disap.
pointed—(Continued laughter). He could not be-
brae there were any in the House who did not titn.
derstind the allusion• w uld now proceed itt
read a paper, the torrents of which he hat arra
with much labour, but which he believed "ould
suggest a course that would eff:ctually tranquillise
Ireland. The first measure he proposed was ciat the
Catholic Association should be put down; second, to
employ the poor for a certain period ; the third, to pros
mote education ; the fourth, to encourage agriculture,
for which he feared the proposed Bill relative to Corn
was not much calculated; the fifth, to pay liberally the
Catholic Clergy, and thus form a golden link betwen
-them and this Government; and the sixth, to alter the
elective franchise. The impatience of the House at last
became so overwhelming that the lion. Gentlemen sat
down, observing that he had now done—( Loud cheers).
Mr. Secretary PEEL saiJ,ire lose merely for the
purpose of deprecating discussion, which must always
be inconvenient when there was ns motion before the
House. Upon the present occasion the discussiou was
premature and uncalled for. The Ilan. Gentleman who
spoke last alluded not only t.. the Catholic Association,
but to education in Ireland, the elective ft atichise, the
corn la is, and other topics. lie way not in the House
when the Petition was presented, but he must confess
that he felt some curiosity to see it ; for if, as had been
reco ;emended. the 11:M. Member (Col. Trench) confined
himself a ithin the font come: s of it, the Petition must
em'race a most extensive area. (A laugh.) He
roust consider his spe.Ah rather as intended for a
record of bis own opinions than as addressed to
the subject of the Petition. He had another m Ain
for rising, and that was to do justice. A ques-
ton had been put to his It ght Honourable Fiera&
(Mr. Plunkett) with respect to the enforcement or
the law in Ireland. It aas tattler difficult t e give
an answer ti such qrtesttriei f r they embraced a great
'variety of ionsideeation.. rhe Lew Officers of the
'Crown could not be mad: a .swerable lot the enforce•
meet of the law. As a matter of course, their opinion
WAS asked as to the proptiety of appealing to it. and its
applicability in certain cases. This, however, was a
question not merely of law but one also of discretion--1
(Hear, hear). If responsibility attached anywhere for
the non—nforcemeat of the law, it attached as strongly
to the Secretary of S ate for the Home Depattment
as to the A:torney•General. Hitherto there was a
complete concurrence of opinion between them, and he
coull not, therefore, permit the responsibility to be
thrown on his Right Hon. and Learned Friend. With
respect to prosecutions, he never knew his Right Hon.
Friend to shrink from the tartest discharge of his duty,
or thew any disinclination to enforce the law against any
party, whenever the Governm.nt thought it advisable
that it should be appealed to.
Mr. PLUNKET was surprised at the reference
made to a speech of his, uttered three necks since. It
might have been expected that the " natural impetu-
osity" of the Hon. Gentleman would not have allowed
three weeks to elapse, but would have caused him, as
be was in the Horse at the time the speech was deli.
trend, to (lave answered it at once. He did net then
recommend violence, but expressly said, as he always
said, the Catholics could hope for nothing it they did
not advance their claims with temperance. What he
had said aas tais—We put it to those who were pro-
tected io this country, how they would feel it they were
i,utended to deprive them of their privileges; and he,

said that these were privileges velAch ought .to be bid
deirer,thaa ale. This was what he had uttered,. and
.he was sartifified tbers4as sot a atm in the House whose
heart did not recgiond to the challenge; But he ap-
pealed to his opinions; to the language he had eve!
used; and to his notion's public ltle, to contradict the
insinuations that hid been made.
(Altera f.w words from Colonel TRZNCII in coplanar
lion, the Petition was brought up, and ordered to be

printed.)
Petitions praying for farther protection to the Landed Interest
were presented from various Hundreds in the county of Sussex. by
Mr. HOWAILD. Sir JoWs &mix. Mr. Cuarsu, and Mr. Beasecc.
On the motion of Mr. Cuarms, the second reading of the Sussex
Election Bill was postponed to the Sd of May.
Mr. CURTEIS presented three Petitions in favour of the Bill
from the Eastern parts of Sussef.
The Sidle Honourable Member presented two Petitions—one
from a Hundred In Susses, and another from a Hundred in Nor-
folk, against Catholic Einanclpation.—Orderedro be printed.
Mr. C. GRANT presented a Petition from the Earmets fre-
quenting the market of Lewes on the subject of the Averages and
the Bonding System.—Ordered to be primed.
Mr. GOOCH presented a Petition frodt a Hundred in Suffolk
against Catholic Emancipation.
Mr. BURItELL presented Petitions from Barrage and West
Grinstead, praying protection to the Landed Interest.

STATZ 01 ADMINISTRATION.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, he hoped the House
would allow him to trespass on their attention for a low-
moments, in reference to a motion of which his Hon.
Ft iend (Sir T. Lethbridge) had given notice. He trusted
his Honourable Friend would consent to postpone it.
There were certain circumstances in respect to which
be thought such a motion highly inconvenient: and he
hoped his Honourable Friend would allow him to press
the expediency of withdrawing it altogether. He did
this without at all questioning the judgment of his Hon.
Friend, in giving notice of such a motion in the first
instance. He would not trespass further on the in-
dulgence of the House ; but he did think, with all pas-
sible deference to his Hon. Ft lend, that the motion could
be productive of no good results, and that it would be
the wisest course to withdraw it altogether—(Near).
• Sir T. GOOCH perfectly agreed in the propriety of
the suggestion thrown out by the Hon. Member for
Kent, and he hoped the Hon. Member for Somerset-
shire would be induced to withdraw his motion. No
benefit could arise to the country, or to the fist therance
of the proceedings of that House, by the introduction
of such a motion. (Hear.) It would rather cause em-
harrassnsent than have any good effect. Ills Majesty
had now arrived in town, and was occupied, no doubt,
-in taking such measures as circumstances rendered ne.
cessary. (Cries of order, order".) He should heartily
second the propoition of the Hon. Member for Kent.
Sir T. LETH MUDGE had heard with attention the
observations of his Honourablelliiend op the A ca (Sir
E. Knatchbulli, and also what had fallen from his
Honourable Friend on the other side of the House
(Sir Thomas Gooch), who had requested of him to
withdraw his motion. lie felt himself at the present
moment placed in a situation of difficulty which he had
not before contemplated. He was anxious at all times
to submit his opinions to the judgment of the House;
and if he could by any means ascertain the tense of the
House, he would act in accordance with it. But be had
no means of doiag so—(a laugh). No person entertained
a higher regard for the opinion of the Hon. Memb
for Kent than he did; and he would say the same of
ilia lion unable Friend opposite. But he entertained
strong rosin; ns =this subject, aal it was not until after
n uch delibe:ation and much consideration, that he had
given a notice of motion for this night, on a question
undoubtedly of gieat invortinee to the canntry, at,the
' present moment. Now, it he Viouglitthat any of his
Majesty's Ministers would state, that that to which the '
motion would have been directed, had occurred; if he
could under .tatd f. out them, that there was no necessity
for the motion, of which notice had been given by the
exercise of the R iyal prerogative, in the f irmation of a
Ministry. and, therefoie, he was in some degree too late
to deliver opinions, which undoubtedly he otherwise
would deliver ; in that case he would readily withdraw
the motion—(Hear). He should be sorry to do any-
thing which could militate against the proceedings of
Government, or to moot any question that could inter
fete with its functions; but he could not at the same
time compromise his own feel ngs, nor willingly forego
an intention he had adopted on mature deliberation.
without an assurance, without something like an unders
standing. that an Administration was about to be
formed. On these grounds he would withdraw the"
motion, if the Hou e had satisfaction given to them on
the aubject by his Majesty's Ministers; and it would, he
was sure, be no less a source of satisfaction to the country
at large. Any d,rect notice by his Majesty's Ministers
with respect to the formation of a Ministry would
entirely alter the state of the case—(Hea.).
Mr. Secrutry CANNING spoke as follows:—" If
I understood aright the proposal which the Hon.Baroom
intakes to his Majesty's Ministers, it is to this effect—
that whereas he having given notice of a motion, which
in the exercise of his discretion he had a perfect tight
to do, for cart ying up to the Throne the opinion of this'
House, as to the principles upon which an Administra-
tion ought to be farmea, he is prepared to withdraw
that motion, or to abstain from pressing it, if he should
ICA! u from any of his Majesty's Servants-in this House
that an Administration is already in.prokess of being
formes'. Now as to the fact of his being so prepared,
I should have thought that what fell from me a
few d Lys ago, in Torrence to the intended arrange:
mesas upon his Majesty's arrival in town, would hater,
been a sufficient guide for the discretion of any Hoe.
Member in such a else. But I confess that lam as en-
tirely at a loss to understand the arguments upon which
the Hon. Baronet is now prepared to withdraw his mar
Lion, as I before was to understand his reasons for
bringing it forward at all. I conceive that if bethinb
the advice of this House necessary as to the principles
upon which an Administration ought to be formed,
1, nothing short of the actual formation of an Adminies
' tration—by which fact such counsel could not :mitre
at the Throne until it would be too late—can logically
or reasonably justify him in withholding it. It essumese
me a whimsical thing to say, I will not bring forward
my advice if it is too late, and I will wi hhold it if lila
time.' The Hon. Gentleman must judge for himself
whether he will or will not press his motion ; with drat
I have nothing to do; but I am bound. is troth and
honesty to tell him that the arrangements for a new
Administration are not so far advanced as to afford
lima the excuse of bethg too late."
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE said, he bad hoped to have
received from the Right Hon. Secretary such an an-
swer as would have rendered hi. motion unnecessary ;
bur, after what had fallen from the Bien Hun. Secre-
tary, lie could not consent to withdraw it.
Colonel WOOD rose amidst loud cries of " Chair,"
.4 Order."
The*SPEAKER said he was sure the House Would

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