Star.
London, England, 1810-02-02 00:00:00

BULLION.

Mr. HORNER moved for a variety of accounts
and returns respecting the present state of the circu-
lating medium,. and the bullion trade. He expressed
an opinion, that it was necessary for the House to
make an inquiry into the causes of the present high
price of gold bullion, and the consequent effect upon
the value of the paper currency, not only on account
of the real importance of the subject, but also on ac-
count of the probable misconceptions which prevailed
respecting the cause of such a state of things. A
Select Committee would be the only effectual mode
of conducting the investigation—and it was his inten-
tion, at an early day, to move for tae appointment
of one. But it would be convenient, in the first in-
stance, to obtain such information, as papers might
afford, which could afterwards be referred to the
hCommittee. He could not adopt the opinion which
prevailed among some people, etat the high price of
gold and the depreciation of paper (for depreciation
in a certain sense it was) were to be ascribed to the
number of country banks ; the better their nature and
operation were understood, it would the more clearly
appear, that they formed an essential part of our
system of credit and currency, nor was he prepared
at once to adopt another conclusion which had been
urged in various forms before the public, that the
explanation of the present evils must be referred
wholly to an undue issue of notes by the Bank of
England ; for, though an excess in the market price
Of gold above its mint price, would- be one certain
consequence of such an undue issue, yet that same
excess might originate from other causes, or be en-
hanced by other circumstances. He did not presume
as yet to form a clear or confident conclusion upon
the subject ; it was to arrive at a correct opinion,
that he wished the House to call for the information,
and undertake the enquiry. His present conjecture
was, that the high pnce of gold might be Koduced
partly by a larger circulation of Bank of England
paper than wai necessary, and partly by the new cir-
cumstances in which the foreign trade yf this country
was placed; by which a continual demand for bul-
lion was produced, not merely to discharge the ba-
lance of trade as in the or.dinaty state of things, but
for the purpose a carrying on tome of the most im-
portant branches of our commerce. Such is the pur-
chase of naval stores from the Baltic, and the pttr-'
chase of grain from the country of the enemy; He
believed the former cause to operate, because the
market price of gcid had been higher than the mint
price almost ever since the restriction of Bank pay-
ments in the year 1797 ; and he suspected the infith
ence of the latter from this circumstance ; that there
was not merely a nominal depredation of paper as
compared with bullion, but a real demand for bul-
lion itself all over the country. The state of the ex-
change was no doubt in some degree the cause of
this demand for bullion—but, perhaps, it was in
some degree also the effect of that transfer of bul-
lion from this country, which was created by the
necessities of trade, and the new system of corm-
mercial warfare. But all this was matier for in-
quiry. What remedy ought to be provided, would,
of course, turn upon what was ascertained to be the
nature and cause of the evil. if it consisted in an ex.
cessive issue of paper by the Bank of England, the
.remedy was in the hands of Parliament, and had been
resorted to in the case of the misconduct of the Bata
of Ireland. If the real cause of the high price of gold
was the real demand for it, as an article fl..r carrying
on our trade, there was no other cure for that but an
adequate supply ; and it was one of the many impor-
tant considerations which arose out of the present
situation of the colonies of Spain in the New World,
how their immense resources of precious metals might
best be rendered available for our accommodation.
Those colonies, independently of the Brazils, might
easily furnish above the value of nine millions ster-
ling annually of the precious metals. The mines of
Mexico were said to produce annually about 25 mil-
lions of dollars ; those of Peru 15 millions, and it was
thought that if the mines of Peru were better worked
they would prove infinitely more Abundant in the
production of bullion than even those of Mexico.p
When the F tate of our circulating medium came to'
be inquired into in the Committee, there were several
peculiarities which had been too long overlooked,
especially the debasement of our silver coin, silver
being still, by the law of our Mint, the measure of all
commercial value. Then there was the change which
had taken place in the relative value of gold and sil-
ver to each other, while no corresponding alteration
had yet been made in their relative value, as fixed by
the regulations of the Mint. In the time of Edward
the First the ratio of silver to gold was as I to 9 ; at
a much later period it was 1 to 15 ; subsequently as 1
to 15 and a very small fraction, but the ratio at pre-
sent was as 1 to 15i. From documents which he had
seen, it appeared that for rnqre than fifty years back,
the supply of gold and silver front the mines 0f4n24-

awwslll2.l Ellarriwomo •my
&ARE* arse in a nsucliMer than that
'of the former. He can . . Moving for Re.
turns of the Imports,and Exports'Of Bullion and Fo-
reign Coin, the amount of Bank .of England Notes
and Dollars, the Number of Licences for the issue of
Country Bank Notes, the quantity of Bullion arid
Coin seized, as about to be illegally exported, &c.
Mr. DAVIES GIDDY thought this was a sub-
ject which, like many others, had been industriously
wrapped up in a sort of mystery that did not belong
to it. If it was looked at through the plain medium
of common sense, it would appear by no means the
involved and abstruse question it was thought to be.
The fact appeared to him to be simply this : that the
price of gold and silver (like every other commodity)
was regulated by the demand for it. If any substitute
'could be found that could answer the required purpose
as well as the commodity so much sought for, and
that that substitute could be had at a much cheaper
rate ; it would follow, by necessary consequence, that
the commodity itself could not be in such demand,
and that its price would proportionally decrease.—
He would illustrate to the House his meaning :—lf
the copper used in sheathing both our military and
mercantile Navy should be postponed, by the prefe-
rence given to some other cheaper and as durable
substance, and that our shipping should be sheathed
with that substance; there would be of course such a
rush of copper into the market, as to occasion a very
cheap and general circulation of that metal.—He dif-
fered from the Honourable Gentleman who so ably
introduced this subject, in one point ; and that was,
with respect to the Country Banks. He could not
think them of such service to the credit and com-
merce of the country as that Gentleman seemed to
think them.—With respect to the great circulation of
Paper Money, he thought that it materially contribu-
ted to throw the specie into market.
Mr. JOHNSTONE complimented, what he called
the philosophical Speech of the Honourable Gentle-
man (Mr. Horner). He thought the subject deser-
ved to be maturely weighed, and that every effort
should be made to trace the present unfortunate state
of the currency to its true cause.
Mr. M. DORRIEN MAGENS thought it in the
first instance necessary, that the House should with
all convenient dispatch possess itself of every possible
information upon that very important and interesting
subject. He had not hastily formed his opinions
upon it, but, however confident he might feel in the
justice of these opinions then, he should defer them
till the House was better enabled to come to some
'conclusion. He acknowledged, that if it was his in-
tention at that time to go into detail, he believed he
should be led to take a very different view of the pa-
per currency of the country and its consequences,
from what others seemed disposed to take. That de-
tail he should postpone to another and better oppor-
tunity. He hoped the motion of the Honourable
Gentleman would be acceded to, as the question ap-
peared to him to be of that great magnitude, that it
could not in its proper time be too fully or too mi-
nutely entered into.
Mr. PATTESON approved of the motion, that
had been, he said, introduced with such ability, and
vindicated the country bankers from the objections
made to them by an Honourable Gentleman ("Mr.,
Davies Giddy). He thought them a source of great
commercial convenience : their own notes they al-
ways changed.for Bank of England notes, and it was
not to be supposed that they could have got them
without a due equivalent.
Mr. H. THORNTON did not think the docu-
ments moved for would throw much light on the sub- '
ject. He defended the excestive issue of notes from
the Bank of England.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did
not rise to oppose the motion that had been made with
so much ability. He would, however, venture to sug-
gest his difference of opinion, with respect to one or,
two points. First, he confessed he could not under-
stand, how the reduction of the Bank of England pa-
per coul&alfect the price of bullion, He thought,
that they muss consider gold as an article of trade ;1
and if a guinea, that is, the quantity of gold coined
was worth, at Hambargh, more than 21 shillings, no
reduction of theii home circulation of paper currency
could affect the rate of change in the foreign market,
which rate was to be ascribed to other causes. They
were to look to the extent of the wars so long curried
on, which could not be carried on without money.
The additional demand for bullion ; the considerable
interruption in the supply of bullion, in consequence
of so long a war with Spain ; the quantity that might
be supposed to be hid and buried—could all this be
said to be owing to the increased circulation of paperi
An Hon. Gentleman had furnished them with an illu-
stration ; but with what view ? The substitution of
=Jelling else for copper in sheathing shipping, would
thrd‘v that copper into the marketcertainly ; but would
it not cheapen that copper ? Whereas, in the case of
the paper currency, the paper was put as a substitute
for gold ? but the gold had not lessened in price, it
had increased, so that he could not see the analogy,
for the paper was to the gold as the supposed substi—
tiite to the copper. He, however, threw out these sug-
gestions with great diffidence, as he was aware, that
he was not as well informed on the question as he
hoped yet to be, when the various papers were before
the House. He, therefore, reserved to himself the
right of retracting any opinion upon this subject, which
more knowledge and maturer deliberation might in-
duce him to change.
Mr. DAVIS GIDDY explained.
Mr. MAR RYAT agreed with the Right Hon.
Gentleman, that the quantity of paper-money in cir-
culation had not occasioned the scarcity in bullion so
justly complained of, but at the same time, he could
not admit, that bullion had increased in value all over
the world, as it had done here. All the evidence,
which would be laid on the table, be was satisfied
would throw no light on the subject, and the quesion
would be found at last *holly to depend on the dif-
ference in the rate of exchange against us in the dif-
ferent markets, being from 2U to 35 per cent. Every
person who could carry a guinea over to the Conti-
nent, would receiye 28s. in return, and all the regu-
lations the House might adopt wonld not be suffi-
icient to bring one back. All the ail, he w:ts
fied, was to be traced to the indiscriminate use of
licences, by which all the staple commodities of this
country were sent to France, in return for which,
and for our specie, we received the luxuries of that
country, and the butter, cheatC, ikc. of Holland, and
f 1: which also wk said in spew. Ihe influx of these

to the.enormous rate already menu
importafon of naval stores, too, r
of which must be paid for in speck
'greatly to this end ; all was to be
structive practice of licences.
done away, things would be tune,
nel. If not, they would continue
Mr: BA RING thought the p;
the Learned Gentleman below
might be of some service in correcting
the different Gentlemen, which, " '
wrong. He didcnot, however,
themselves would be sufficient to
form a fair judgment on the subject.
he suspected, would be found to '
the trade of the country. Undoubtedl,
culation did expose the country
exchange turned against her where'
against her. In Sir W. Temple',
country wished to grant a subsid:
Munster, it was found impossible
we could not send the tin from
raised 'This could not affect .
the present change of circumstances,
an exertion, we sent our paper abroad
of raising the money, this must
a depreciation. A guinea, at thi
265. or 275. and a pound brought
whereas it used, formerly, to be
he disliked the trade by licences,
to them the whole cause of the
Foreign Exchange, because the
imports as well as exports. W
ring the last year, immense imy
from the the trade of th,
been interrupted, and this year
bably equal to the constmlption
All this must be paid for in spec
imports were made in our own ,
occasion, foreign vessels had be,?;
must also be paid in specie, and
putation could not be reckoned ,
What was formerly obtained ff
now be fairly estimated at £`2oo,
a foreign merchant formerly dre
drew for £l2O. We now receive
were formerly in use to do from
ther sent bullion thither. TI;
Commerce tended to deteriorate
Every encouragement was givt
of cotton wool from Brazil rather
although the former must be pail
the latter had been,. and still
giving our own manufactures ii
was also the case as to the forei;
in this trade, the freight of whi
in bullion. These, he was satisi
of the rate of exchange being
this country, and there was not
be called before the Committee,
firm what he had stated.
The question was then put and
Mr. HORNER then moved .
of the Gold and Silver imported,
period ; also of the Exports and '
Ireland; ofithe Bullion seized •
from the Batik • of Bank of En
lation ; of all Monies sent to ow
for the service of our Allies
Silver exported to the East Ink
were ordered.

- THANKS TO LORD "IVELLINI
The CHANCELLOR of
in rising to move for the Th:
Lord Wellingtoa, for his skill
nently displayed in the battle of
refrain from expressing regret
opposition which were manifested
which had previously been mani
thought it could nut be denied the
PR was about to move their than,
most splendid that had ever grace
the nambers of the enemy with
tend were taken injo consideral
they were in, for nnlike the
whom the French had
.frequent
and undisciplined, the force opf
composed of veteran troops wi
our enemy ; when these circui
dered, the merits of the action
pear in a proper light. He
in mind the; advantages that
from it to this country, as they
essential it was to our interest to
Lion of our armies, both for val
for skill and wisdom in the
they considered the policy and ,
and the justice of rewarding bra\
House would not hesitate to
testimony of applause due to
He wished those who might feel
the motion, to consider if their
some me asure the offspring 'of
That such feelings might not
were to give, he was anxious to.l
on any topic on which a difference
exist. He would, for the present.
the Expedition to Spain and Portugal
the question, and only call
Battle of Talavera, in which
neral was only equalled by
troops, and the valour of the
of the General. In doing thiF
tinctly to be understood; that
from an inquiry into the policy
expedition. He did not wish that
cussion. At any time he would
.the conduct and even to maim
campaign. The oi.-cumstances
that it was hardly necessary to
expelling the enemy from Port
marched from the north of Portu)
He arrived there on the 11th or '
the 27th broke up to go to Pl
a junction with the force under
had ser:ral conferences, and a
then concerted. It was proposed
the enemy beyond the Alberche,
French by a combined operation '
Spain, while Vanegas, whose force
plan, was to push on towards'
fortunately was never carried ,
failure however could not be ascra.
duct on the part of Lord Wellington.
• to speak of the battle of Talavera.

exchange
alins•
rationed. 'lle
for Ccivernmen'.
ecie, had connib
tobe tr►ced
the.
If this system
ned to their old c
ie as they new wet.
papers moved for,
him (Mr. Horne
reefing the theories
, in his opinion,
say, that the pa,.
enable Centime/1
iest. The difficui
to be in the state ,
oubtedly a papt,„
r to have the rat,
henever the trade
time, %cher, I,
,idy to the Bich?
ale to do so, bees
m which it was to
our paper ; but if, •
aces, resolved to ma,
abroad for the pu7pf,
immediately pro e,
this mosuent, bra
tonly 19 livresfriv,
worth 24.. D 444
s, he could not a
se depreciation on f
iese licences vele
Ne, had, how%er, d
sports of nay 11 sty
se former year hay,
Om imports were p,
t a two or three yea
iecie. Formerly
slips ; on the p
ser:.n employed.
id on a moderate c
at less than 11, ssiili
for one million mi.
),000 more ; and w
rew for kIOO, hen,
isred no bullion, al •
n the Brazils, butt
'he present system
Le our rate of exchae6
,en to the importat
ser than from Amen.
said for in specie, ,
might be obtained
in exchange. The „
ign shipping emplo..
iich must also be
tis4ed, were the ca
so immensely ag •..
a mer4tnt whomi'
e, who would not ..
and earriod.
d for similar accou,
rted, within the s
id Imports from and
; of all Dollars iss'
lugland Notes ie cir.
'or Armies abroad,
; and of all Gold
of
vELLINGTON*.
the EXCHEQU
hanks of the House
LI and valour, lo
of Talavera, could
at the symptoms .
sted in that Howe, ,
lifested elsMiere. •
hat the action-for v.'ii.
thanks, was one of t,
aced our annals. Whe
uhich we had to c'
ation, as also the s
poor Spaniards o •
:ntly triumphed, n
sposed to our army
who were the boast
umstances were ..,
a would, he trusted,
e wished them to
must necessarily re,.
7 must be aware li,
to maintain the repo
valour in the field .
Cormrtanders.
the importance of -
bravery', he hoped
give the hono
military excellent
feel disposed to op.
it hostility were not
of party differences,
influence the vote I:-
3"abstain (Wilfrid
rence of opinion m':
sent, leave the policy'
Portugal entirely out
their attention to
h the skill of the
ityhe valourtthremp
sby of
the
his, lie wished it
at he did not sh
:y and conduct of ,
that to be held from d.
,d be prepared to d
ntain the utility of di
es of it were so -'
state them anew. '
tugal, ,ord "
'ortugal to the Ta: '
or 12th of June, and'
Placentia. He fo
r Cuesta, with whom
plan of operation
used not
pn,y to 46
erche, but to expel '
ition'from the south
'once was inchided
Madrid. This plan'.
d into execution
ascribed to any mi '
lingtoa. He now.
Lycra. Oa the tort

tbi

irivi

:h 0
n tl

.-frirjrn W. ..,..j
tlr Jer tilc command of General Hill. The manner
in wliich that attack was repelled, and the enemy re- I
at the point of the bayonet, was well known, as 1
F,,; :he subsequent defeat of the enemy, and must be
in the memory of every one. Every part of the I
operation was characterised by corresponding skill and
ti.: lour; and it ended gloriously, ended in a repulse,
and in a complete victory over an enemy double the
number of our army. The Spaniards afforded little As-
sistance in this battle. Whatever might be thought
of it here, no doubt was entertained as to its merits 1
in Spain;Portugal, and he might add in France. It
was an achievement that called- for the best Thanks
d the 'louse, and he wished an Honourable Gentle.
man opposite, who was not then in his place, would
consider how well he might exert that eloquence of
which he was in so eminent a degree possessed, by
doing justice to the skill and valour displayed in that
accort, and calling on. the House for an unanimous
to of thanks to the gallant officer by whom it was
ak.hieved. He would wish to recal to his mind what
so ably urged, when moving for thanks to the
General who gained the battle of Maida, when he so
deeply impressed on the House the importance of
raying a proper degree of attention to the encourage-
ment of military merit. That merit such as was
shewn in the plains of Maida had been exemplified in
the fields of Talavera. The two actions were simi-
lar, and he hoped that Honourable Gentleman, feel-
ing that circumstance as he did, would concur in
calling on the House for that honour which was so
well deserved by the conqueror of Talayera. The
Right Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving,
es That the Thanks of that House should be given to Lord
wellington for the distinguished ability displayed by him on the
27th and 28th of July, 1809, in the glorious battle of Talavera,
teL.-h terminated in the repulse and defeat of a superior enemy."
Lord MILTON rose to propose an Amendment,
r,r.d began by expressing his opinion of the gallantry
of Lord Wellington ; but at the same time could not
admit that he was entitled to the high honour of the
Thanks of the House for his conduct at Talavera—
an honour which would lose its value if frequently
and indiscriminately conferred. He would not take
upon him to question even the skill of Lord Welling-
ton in the battle. It was not a sufficient ground for
thatking an Admiral, who had run his fleet on shoals,
that he had with difficulty saved it from that perilous
mation, neither was it sufficient, on the present oc-
rl;:en ; to skew that Lord Wellington had extricated
birn,elf from his difficulty at Talavera, unless it ap-
peared that he was not brought into that situation
by r.r.y n:isconduct of his own. This was, besides,
Lt a repulse. Lord Wellington did not attack—
b.:: was attacked. In a General Order issued by
I:is l'..lajesty's Military Advisers, it was said, that
the French made a precipitate retreat; whereas it ap-
peared, from Lord Wellington's dispatches, that
they retreated in good order. He asked what Mini-
sters meant by blazoning this battle in terms dif-
i;rett from what the dispatches of the General war-
ranted ? He rather thought it proceeded from that
feeling prevalent amongst most Administrations,
which led them to consider the praises of the Gene-
ral as reflecting a sort of lustre on themselves. His
Lordship then paid the highest tribute of applause
to the conduct of the inferior officers and troops on

that occasion, which he thought glorious to the British
tame. But he rather imagined that the General fought
more for his own personal glory than he ought to have
done. This had said of the battle of Vimiera,
but he had not joined in the opposition to a Vote of
Thanks for that battle. But if he could have been
aware of what had been explained by the battle of
Talavera, and other circumstances, he should cer-
tainly have then paused. Lord Wellington seemed to
have fought too much for his peerage (Hear, hear,)
than in his opinion a good and prudent Commander
should have done. Did the night Honourable Gen-
tleman (Mr. Perceval) mean to say, that the House
was to lay out of consideration the fact, that so great
a number of our troops were left on the field of bat-
tle, and that MOO of our sick and wounded fell into
the hands of the enemy ? Was the retreat of our army
not to be considered, and the singular circumstance,
that it had not resumed active operations since the
battle ; and the no less singular circumstance of no
dispatch fmm the General having been published
since that of the 22d of August, from Truxillo ? The
Viole seemed to amount to this, that the General had
g ,t into a difficulty, from which he succeeded in ex-
tricating himself; but if it was blameable in him to
have got himself into such a situation, he did not de-
serve the Thanks of the House. He moved there-
tore as an Amendment, that the motion of 'Thanks
to Lord Wellington be set aside, and that one of
Thanks to the other Officers and the Army be substi-
tuted, with an addition, expressive of the regret of
the House, that the army had been compelled to re-
treat: that 1500 of our sick and wounded had fallen
Qto the hands of the enemy, &c.
Mr. VERNON rose to second the Amendment.—
lie also expressed his high respect for the military
.iancter of Lord Wellington, to whom the country
Zm'aighly indebted ; and his country might also
to future advantages from his zeal and activity.
"e adverted to the absurdity of imputing to himself
aid others a desire to throw reflections on Ministcrs,
'1 refusing to thank their officer. If private honour,
aid a sense of public duty, were not sufficient to pre-
't'et them from doing this, policy would prevent
:-ell—since nothing could so effectually disgrace
!la as their own actions, public and private. (Hear,
".;r.) tie could not contemplate the valour of the
''irny without admiration ; but in proportion as he
ittitired the valour of the army, was his regret, that it
should be unprofitably employed. Lord Wellington,
r* said, might have learned better from the recorded
ePinions- of Sir John Moore, and from the losses the
loty of that Great General sustained in Spain. Lord
weilington had not the excuse for entering Spain
1,11:eli the other had. Lord Wellington had no offi-
-6011, s and impertinent interference to encounter.—
Lllear, hear.) He was not insulted in his own camp
`,lY.an authorised Frenchman. (Hear, hear.) He
bad not to encounter the directions of a rash diplo-
matic, or any candidate for a Spanish Marguisate.-1
(Hear, ilear.) The Honourable Gentleman next ad-
,erte, d to the circumstances which brought on the
hale of •
ralavera, and contended that these were the
lerY circumstances which would have been avoided
t
la wise an prudent General—so that the House
',as called upon to thank Lord Wellington for hay-
t'g extricated himself with great loss and difficulty,
"lithe consequences of his own rashness and im-
P4ldellte. It had been said, that the Frisch armies

ifadeid, Thielit—
t° 150martne filidianktd
his troops. Lord Wellasston had no resu
td the object he had undertaken, and the object:l:de
march appeared to be illustrated by a passage in Ha-
dibras, concluding with the lines.-
" To put die nibble in a lune,
And keep disk Cavemen from lime."
It had been said that Lord Wellington relied on the
co-operation of Cnesta and the Junta. But why did
he so ? If the Spanish Government had acted in a
manner calculated to inspire confidence up to that
period, the excuse would have been good. But the
Junta, it was well known, had, on the contrary, act-
ed with almost incredible stupidity. The Honour-
able Gentleman next adverted to the state of Spain,
with a French army in the interior, commanded by a
host of the ablest Generals, and no military resources
of any consequence opposed to them, either in the abi-
lity of the Government or the character of the people.
The people had not a constitution in which they felt
an interest, and could not fight for freedom. Reli-
gion often made people fight ; and the Honourable
Gentleman instanced two kinds which had that ef-
fect—that of the Fatalist, who believed that march-
ing up to the mouth of a cannon did not accelerate
the moment of death, and that of those who consider-
ed dying in battle as a species of martyrdom. None
of these was the religion of the Spaniards. He, how-
ever, paid a very handsome tribute of applause to the
defenders of Saragossa and Gerona • but contended
that the general character of the Government and
people of Spain was not of a description to warrant
us in sending armies into the interior. A different
conduct ought to have been pursued on our part ; we
ought to have sent arms, money, and troops too, pro..
vided they acted only on the coast. The mode of
warfare calculated for such circumstances required
the Fabian caution, rather than the rashness of a Fla-
minius or a Vara.

Mr. M. MONTAGUE defended Ministers, and
vindicated Lord Wellington from the charges prefer-
red against him. It would be unjust to refuse to Lord
Wellington those Thanks which had often been given
on occasions greatly inferior to the brilliant affair of
Talavera. The effects of the Expedition he contend.
ed would be beneficial to England. It would hate
been well had no party feeling opposed the present
motion. Such conduct would not be grateful to the
country, and Gentlemen, he firmly believed, would
find themselves deceived if they expected thus to in-
gratiate themselves with the people.
Mr. LEMON supported the Amendment.
General TARLETON never rose with more anxi-
ety, as he felt himself bound to oppose the Motion
of Thanks to a brother Officer. He then entered at
some length into the circumstances which preceded,
followed and occurred at the Battle of Talavera, and
contended that, in any point of view, it was not a
victory that deserved the Thanks of the House. He
likewise adverted to the Battle of Agincourt, and the
victories of the Duke of Marlborough, and pointed
out the circumstances in which they differed from the
, Battle of Talavera ; exposing the absurdity of com-
paring this repulse to those great triumphs. It was
not a victory, because the enemy remained in sight
' after it, occupying a position at the distance of half
a league. He characterized the 'Report of Lord
Wellington as vain-glorious, partial and incorrect.
General MATHEW called him to order. _

General TARLETON was sorry to say any thing
unpleasant to one for whom he had a respect ; but, if
he had been out of order, the Speaker would have
checked him. He concluded by paying the highest
compliment to our army, which had not onlyexhibited
the highest possible valour in the battle, but had been
eminently distinguished for the strictest discipline
during the whole of the arduous difficulties with which
they had to contend.
Lord CAST LE R EA GH took a very comprehensive
view of the whole of the operations of the British army
under Lord Wellington. He contended, that the first
great object obtained, was the acquisition the Spa-
niards had, in getting the possession of the command
of the Tagus. This acquisition not only afforded the
advantage to the Spaniards of that possession, but was
fully within the spirit of his instructions, as defending
the frontiers of Portugal. The Noble Lord, in a most
concise and impressive manner, proceeded to state the
progress of that army ; first against Souk's army in
the north, and after his defeat against that of Victor,
until the hostile armies met at Talavera. That vic-
tory he epitomized as one of the most splendid upon
militarj record, combining the highest personal he-
roism, with the most correct and systematic observ-
ance of all those principles,which those best conversant
with modern warfare had uniformly acted upon.
Mr. WHITBREAD congratulated the real friends
of Lord Wellington upon having found in the last
speaker at least one sincere defender of that gallant
General. Up to the period of Talavera, he (Mr. W.)
was always inclined to consider him as a distinguished
officer ; but in appreciating his claims to the Thanks
of Parliament upon the present occasion, it was im-
possible to cast the veil of oblivion over the effects
which followed. It was impossible to forget that
though his gallant brethren in arms were the partici-
pators of his success, that they were also the victims
of his temerity. The Hon. Member took a view of
the whole campaign, and in answer to the Noble
Lord, contended that the movements of Lord Wel-
lington neither tended to advance the interests of the
Spaniards nor to support the reputation of the British
army, even putting out of the question the particular
disasters of that battle.
Colonel L. CRAUFURD expressed his decided
conviction that the Vote of that House was never
more justly deserved than by Lord Wellington.
General STUART, in a manner which excited
the approbation of both sides of the House, stated
certain movements of that army in which be had the
honour to have a command, which in a peculiar de-
gree illustrated the resources of Lord Wellington's
mind, forced into certain unexpected circumstances
by the course taken by the Spanish armies previous
to the battle of Talavera.
Mr. WINDIIAM observed, that he felt it his duty
ou this occasion to differ in opinion from those with
whom he usually acted, as he meant to support the
motion. That the action of Talavera was a victory
was generally confessed, was actually undeniable ;
and although a retreat followed, he could by no
means coasider that circumstance as a reason for de-
, preciating the character of the achievement, because
upon that ground the victories of Agincourt ond

.1 tilt *Wu
111166 Frail the
it feidased

generally'
sense arouli
Elton.

men
be disposed to quarrel with his

General MATHEW was also an advotate for the
motion, and was happy in this opportunity of ap-
plauding the conduct of his gallant Countryman.
Alluding to Lord Castlereagh, the Honourable Offid
cer expressed a wish that the Noble Lord should not,
for his own credit, and for the benefit of the country,
ever again become a Minister—for his own credit,
because the Noble Lord from his display of this night,.
seemed more capable of eloquence in another situa-
tion—and for the benefit of the country, because it
never could conduce to that end to have that Noble
Lord invested with any power in a free Government.
(4 loud ery-of hear, hear !)
General TARLETON explained.
Mr. PONSONBY was adverse to the motion, but
yet he had no wish to press the question to a division.
Mr. CANNING spoke with considerable ardour in
favour of the motion, and the merits of the Noble
Lord to whom it referred.

Lord FOLKSTONE stated his objections to the
motion.

Sir T. TURTON, after some observations, recom-
mended the Noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
The question being called for, strangers were ex-
cluded, but we understand that the amendment was
withdrawn —Adjourned.

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 2.
CANDLEMAS DAY—Holiday at the Bank, Exchequer, and
Stamp-Office.
PRICE OF STOCKS YESTERDAY.
Bank Stock 2761 2751 276 India Stock 1871 186 1
3 per Cent. Red. Ann. 681 68 Insp. 8 per Cents. 671
3 per Cent. Cons. 67H Imp. Ann. 7 3-161
4 per Cent. 841 84 Exch. Bib, 7s. Its. 4s. pre.
per Cent. Navy 99H/ . State Lottery Tickets tn. 15s.
Long Ann. 1817-16chs Consolafor Ace. 681 68

The papers wanting to complete the series respect-
ing the Walcheren Expedition were yesterday deli-
vered to the Members of both Houses of Parliament.
We have continued our extracts this day.

The fate of Holland is at last decided, and in a
way more conformable to the wishes of the inhabitants
than they were before led to expect. A Gentleman
who left Amsterdam on Saturday last states, that the
determination of NAPOLEON had been made known
before he came away ; that Holland is to remain an
independent kingdom under its present Sovereign
LOUIS NAPOLEON ; but Breda, Bergen-op-Zoom, and

most of the other frontier towns in
Dutch Flanders are to be annexed to France ; and
that in return France is to cede to Holland her part
of the Grand Duchy of Berg, including Cleves, toge-
ther with some contiguous towns in Westphalia, border-
ing on the Dutch frontiers on that side. The kingdom
of Holland is to pay to France all arrears of contri-
butions or taxes due by the ceded territories, and
also one million of guilders as a consideration for the
forbearance of France in suffering Holland to retain
the rank of a kingdom.
A few days before the real determination of NAPO-
LEON was known, a rumour was circulated at Am-
sterdam that a decree had arrived annexing Holland
to France. This report excited no small degree of
alarm, and a considerable mob assembled in conse-
quence, and drove the guards of King Lows out of
the 'city. There was' no bloodshed on this occasion,
the guards being too few in number to offer any re-
sistance : order was restored as soon as the real in-
tentions of NAPOLEON were made known, and no ap-
prehensions remained, but a little uneasiness excited
by fears that this event might probably cause some
change in the Emperor's sentiments towards Holland.
By the same vessel which brought the Gentleman
above alluded to, a confirmation has been received of
the confiscation of all American ships at Naples and
in the ports of Spain now in the possession of the
French ; and it was generally expected that similar
measures were about to be adopted in all the ports of
France.

Advices were yesterday received from America,
but they are not so recent, by thirteen days, as ac-
counts already in possession of the public. The letters
have a hostile aspect, but if we may credit the latest
information from France, a war between the Repub-
lic and that country is just as probable as one with
Great Britain.

Letters were also received yesterday from Jamaica,
brought by the NIOBE frigate. They are not of a re-
cent date ; but they bring considerable orders, and

are accompanied with considerable

bullion.

We mentioned yesterday that the people of Cata-
lonia had adopted the expedient resorted.to in Galli-
cia to raise men and money ;4, we now find that the
means employed have been effectual, and that 30,000
recruits, and two millions of dollars were collected in
a very few days. By intelligence from Bilboa, we
have the satisfaction to learn, that the towns of the
province, of which it is the capital, had been deserted
by their youth, who had fled to the adjacent moult.
tains, from whence they annoyed the enemy on every
favourable occasion. The Accounts from Malaga
are of a different complexion. They speak in very
desponding terms of the situation of that part of the
kingdom.

,

ralatpuTß, tAIItrAILY 31.

Th. Rana, vimillitt. Iflo:12, woo sae In hire tote*.
bealagboom pleated Ira the Oland witlisat to lad oe Wird.

PLYMOUTH, MX SI.
The 01~ bit it war- whish I brandied lo my letter of
yeaterdayi le mad Perignien, a ham vessel of her els q,
and one title has dens masidemble to British commerce.
She was taken by the AMAZON fitises. Calends Partaaa, after
a bog chars ol *Wards of thirty lestan, in which the privateer
threw most of her guns overboard ; she is pierced ibr IL She
bed table three prime Ear* her last alive, which she had soot
for France.
Came in, the Dupy Truitt, French primmest, lilt* apes-
red; she bad taken and sent foi Franco the fellewlos dip
116naventare, Provider/ice, Eandatiod, 10, and the Maria ; :he lat-
ter ship has been reeked. Arrived the Riser and lens, and,rhe
Concord tenders, with impressed men and volunteers for the
Navy, from Dublin ; and the Sister. Paovurancs, of and for
London, from Tenerilfe—captarad by a French privateer, and
recaptured by the Futurism sleep et war.
,POItTSMOUTH, FEB. 1.
Put back the Aeration man of war, with the Hon. H. Wet-
Laster on board, bound to Cadiz. Sailed the Ttttan sloop of
war on a cruise of Cherbarsh.--Whill Si W.
DEAL, FEBRUARY 1.

'Came dews Sun the River the Et* mist dr war, and the
**to. The Hanoureble ComPany's ships Alfred
=lllpullithemeene, for the East Indies, wish a Gees of tooshaseusts,
are now turning through the Gulls for the Downs.—P. S. The
Ganges East Indiaman has reached Dover, but on account of the
thickens of the day, she will not come into the Downs to-night.
FROl6LLoirres LIST.

GRAVISINDi Frs. I.—No arrivals. Sailed the Brothoch,
Tstosarsotte for Lisbon; and the Old Friends, Dicer, for Cadiz.

Orders, we understand, have been sent off from the
Admiralty to Admiral Rowan', at Dublin, to disband
'h.! Sea Fencibles there. We have reason to believe
that this order is general, the enormous expence of
this part of our military establishment having rein.
detrd the measure necessary.
The flag of truce which carried Prince STAHREN•
BERG to Calais, has returned to Dover. The Prince
was received there with the greatest respect, and every
accommodation was given to those who accompanied
him, as also to the Captain and crew of the vessel.

Lieutenant Slums has been appointed to his Ma-
jesty's ship MARS.

A late Inspector of forged Notes in the Bank of
England, and who has been very acAife in prosecu-
tions and convictions for forging and tmering, has
been in confinement for some days, charged with ut-
tering some notes of the Wooton Basset Bank, in
Wiltshire. which had been stolen on their way to
town. He has undergone two private examinations
before the Loan MATODe

The folloiting is the Finance Committee as it now
stands
Mr. BA NW
Mr. H. TINOINTON
Mr. Isirsotn.ru
Mr. S. Boots E
Mr. BROCIDLN
Mr. N. CA LVtivr
Mr. CATINDIIIII
Mr. Coma
Mr. T. Ifimenco

Mr. Siniume
Mr. MlLlers
Mr. C. Eu. 4
Mr. Praia
Mr. GIDDY
Mr. BAsixtrtbx
Sir 1. NewroaT, Dart.
Sir G. Wmtacassaa, Bart.
Essex ELecnoti..-State of the poll yesteiday—
For Joati Aac*u Hovimoir, Esgi lit day • 663
Id* -

*IS
1161

For MONTAG° BURGOTNI, Esq. ht day 191
2d day 76 267

Majority is favour o Mr. HOLMAN 890

Etlousn CATHOLIC MEETING.—In calling the at.
tention of the people of England to the following mast
temperate and seasonable resolutions of the English
Catholic Body, we are sure that we shall gratify all
the sound, liberal, and enlightened part of our readers.
They will see in these resolutions the spirit of pure
and loyal attachment to his MAntery's Throne and
Government, mixed with the most mild assertion of
their claim to an equal participation in the blessings
of the British Constitution :

LONDON, TESIMAILT 1, 1810.
At a numerous and most respectable Meeting of English
Roman Catholic Noblemen, Gentlemen, and Clergy, held this
day, at the St. Alban's Tavern, the Right Honourable Lord
STOVaTON in the Chair, the following Resolutions were yang-
mouldy adopted:

Resolved I—That &eases% Catholics of England are subject
to several penal and dhabling statutes, which have the most he•
mill:thug and depressing operation upon them, and by which they
are reduced to a stat=stitical degradation, highly injuriess to
their country and
2—That arrived, as the United Kingdom is, at the aide elks
fate, unanimity amens s 1 dames of his Majesty's subjects is most
essential for the pressrvaden of the Empire, and that nothing caa
produce that uni, but an equal participation is the rights,
privileges, and thos of the British Constitution.
s—That tie Peddes, doted by the Roman Cathie, of leg►
land, fur the repeal tithe's statutes, be presented to Peellansent.
4—That Earl OSZT be repented to present the sere In the
House of Lords, andthea the Right Honourable WA% irMino
sax be requested fie the same to the House efamemuns.
s—That the E>tgil Low Catholics, is sickles the ages-
tion of Parliament to their Petition, are actuated, sot mom by s
sense of the hardships sad disabilities under which they Moor,
than by a desire to secure, on the most solid foundation, the
peace and harmony of the British Empire ; and to obtain air
themselves opportunities of manifesting, by the most nth, MP.
°ono, their seal and interest in the ammo cause be dole
country is engaged, for the maintenance of its *,dens sod inde-
pendence ; and that they are firmly permadod, tied
provision for the maintenance of the civil and religkee
meats of this kingdom, may be made, •slimindy I*k-the
strictest adherence on their part, to the tenets and dedpibee of
the Roman Catholic Religion. And, that any arneqjmnt,
founded on this basis of mutual satisfaction and security, an ox-
tending to them the fdlenjoyment of the civil constituden of tide
country, will meet with their grateful concurrence.
(Signed) Brett/TON, Chairman.

Last week an Officer of the Royal Staff Corps,
alraitcd upon the Military Canal from the Lock near
Rye to Hythe, and returned the same day (a distance
of forty miles) in six hours.

The Drawing approsches, and time flies ratiay, but Tickets
sell Wirt trip Idly than time flies, and scarcity produces dearness;
who than Cm liatinne at embracing the present moment for se-
curing a Shore is the golden prospect which Fortune presents?
These undeniable truths Csarra, No. 8, Charing-Cross, thinks
it his duty to impress on the public attendee.

CORN MARIERLT, MARI•LANR, L—To.day the supplies
of Wheat are considerable ; excepting fine, bales are at somewhat
less price ; fine Dant:lg, 308 s. to 110 s. per quartet—ln Batley
and Malt little variation--Wlthe Peas likewise—Grey and Bans,
of the two kinds, at the late reduction in price—of Oats the sop %
plies are maiden' le, and this trade also at the late reduction—
Flour at our last quotation.

OZWESAL CURISNCT AS V INDSI .
Wheat, 6ss. 84s. 965. Beans, (old) 50s. 56e.
Fine ditto, 104 s. 1060. Tick ditto (old) MK Sib.
Rys, Cis. 411 s. Oats 17s. 20s. 445.
Barley, 375. 464.0 d. Poland ditto, 465. Us. Od.
Malt 745. 83s. Potato, ditto, 324. Od.
Fine Floes 86s. 90s.—Seconds 804.855.

loam anode/ so sitjtaAripliarjst victory
rta df tat df mars vat;
ia•T thass a whale go of sugar
out_ the ittiportintt am* of 'valour which
red to oar own pm* and to Europe.
.trI'LETON Mmred on the same sides
g a wish that his Right Hon. Friend would
• rather consult his first feelings than the re.
of his understanding, and then few men of

EXPEDITION TO THE SCHELDT.

Apr.l.§ LAID BEFORE BOTH HOUSES OF PARLIA-
MENT.—(Continued from yeAerday STAR.)

P.

No. 13.--Inclosure from Vice Mmiral CA M Pll

His Maj,:sty's Sloop Skylark, off Flushing, March 5, 1809.
Siit—l beg leave to inform you, by the Fancy
cutter, I this morning, in company with the Idas cut-
ter, which joined me yesterday, reconnoitred the fleet
flushing, who have all, except two ships, their
too-masts as end, having got them up since the 2d
inst. when last seen. I :tin, &c. • (Signed)
Vice Admiral Carn bell, &c.. JAMES BOXL%

No. LC—Letter frnm Vice Admiral CAMPBELL to Lord Mon-
GRAVE, dated March 6,1209.
MY LORD--S;llCe I had the honour of writing you
last on the subject of the ships and troops at Flushing,
a person has arrived from thence, who lefrit about
six dap since, He states, a great number of trocps
had arrived in the neighbourhood ; that they were
busily employed in fitting out the ships of war in the
dock, and they would all be completed in about three
weeks ; that four brigs were lying there, loaded with
provisions for the West Indies, ready to sail the first
opportunity. I am, ice. (Signed) Gm. cIotPALLL.
To Lord Mulgrave.
Nos. 15 and 16, with inclosurcs, contain-farther, but
immaterial reports of the statabof the enemy's ships
at Flushing.
No. 17.—Letter from Vice-Admiral Cotatvszu. to Mr. POLE,
dated 15th MarchjBoll.
Agincourt, in the Dobbs, 15th March, 11109.
Sm—lnclosed I transmit, for their Lordship? in-
formation, a letter I have received from Captain
VlCerlie, stating that the Active cutter had picked
up a boat with ten deserters from the French line-of.
battle ship the Cesar, lying in Fla'shing harbour, five
of whom he has sent to the Downs in the Alert cutter.

I have exam'ned one of the most intelligent of these
nun, from whcm I have gained the following infor-
mation, viz.: " That the line of battle ships men-
tioned in the accompanying list are in the bacon of
Flushing, (except the two last, Dalmatie, and one,
name unknown) ; each ship having eight guns on
board, for the purpose of exercising the crew, and
:about two or three days' provisions, receiving' their
daily supplies from Antwerp." Their top-masts and
top-gallant-masts are rigged, but struck
The Dutch frigates and sloops are quite complete,
and receive their supplies from Middleburgh.
It was reported that the Dutch frigates were to
take most of their guns our, and come to England
for prisoners ; and that the Island of Wakheren was
to be given up to the Dutch, and it was expected the
• iihips also.
The line-of-battle ships have oh board from 300
to 500 men each ; and, except the two last, which
have not more than 20P, two of the ships are almost
completely manned with Danes and Danish officers.
The two Danish Captains commanding them Nveat
home in January last. They have sent nothing ti om
Flushing to Antwerp. All tho line of battle ships
hive their ground tier of water in, except the two
last, which have their casks ready to receive the same.
The ships hate all been hove dQWn this winter, and
are cnonere. - •

-
That he had read in the papers that Austria had
declared war against France. Hi also states, that a
great number of the .French troops were marching
front the island towards Austria, and that it was re•
ported that the Russians wire to join the Austrians.
The crews of the ships are in a very sickly state.
Four of these men are. Prussians, and one a Rua.
sian : and having expressed a wish to return to their
own country, I ordered them on board the. Agin-
court till I shall receive their Lordships' directions
concerning them. I am, &c. ( Signed)
Giaraog CAMPBELL, Vice Admiral.
The Hdllourable W. W. Pole. &c. Ste. Admiralty.
[The inclesure contains another list of ships in
Flushing harbour, agreeing with the preceding one.]
[Nos. 18, 1.9, 20, 21, and inclosures, contain the
reports of officers who have reconnoitred the island
of Wakheren. The last mentions, under the date of
March 26, that the enemy's fleet in Flushing were
expected to hatil out into the. Roads the next spring,
to take their former anchorage.l . •
No. V2.--Extr4rt of a Letter from Sir RICHARD STRACH A N is
Lord Mr Loaa,r, dated Venerablet in the Doors, April s,
1809.
MI" LORB---I thought it best n 4 to reply to. your
letter of the 28th of March, as it aid not require an
immediate' sinswer, till I heard from the officers of
die vessels off Flitshing, who were desired by me to
give ail the • information they could, respecting
she batteries on each shore. Captain Boxer has sent
me a sketcli.of Flushing ; and, although it is roughly
done) I fotssard it to your Lordship, as it will give
you. an idea of the boson where the ships of war lay.
I am told the guns on the works at the town are
mounted on old works faced with stone or brick.—
C'aptain Btoxer has nor sent me any account of the
batteries on the Cadsand side, but I understand there
one on the point of Breskin, opposite Flushing, and
also at the point below Borcelenor: the South 13eve-
tind side. It seems to hen general opinion that
• much resistance is not to be expected at Flushing, and
the reports of the deserters lately come over, favour
the opinion ; but when L consider the
,defrnte of
Flushilig, I am decidedly of. Opinion that a squadron,-
let it be ever so well attended by gun vessels, could
little against the ships of the enemy in the boson;
and would be exposed to be set on tire by the batteries
qt the enemy ; therefore, it is advisable trot to make
sioly attempts on the town without the co-operation
fai an army. if 3 squadron should be anchored clear
of existing batteries above, the town, it would be an
object to take up such an anchorage, to prevent the
enemy from escaping up the river when the town is
attacked. By the accounts of to-day it seems pro-
bable, that all the ships of the enemy, by this time,
are at anchor in the Scheldt, and in a situation to run
up the river, if attacked ; six were at anchor, and the
others were preparing to g:o out Of the basin ; Lieu-
tenant Duncan .says,-he thinks one of the ships of the
line as well as the frigates had Dutch colours up. • I.
arn, &c. (Signed) R. J. STEMMA/Z.
cl os u res from Sir RICHARD STA ACHAH.
(First Imel osti re.)
His Majesty's Sloop Calliope, of? Fluskir,g, April' , I R 09.••
have the honour to acquaint you, that on
the 4th inst, I reconnoitred in his Majesty's sloop un-
der. tny command, the enemy's squadron in Flushing,
in company with the Skylark, bringing West Capel
to Lear no: ; east, the
.High Church in Flushirg

daily supplies from Antwerp." Their
top-gallant-masts are rigged, but struel
• The Dutch frigates and sloops are q
• and receive their supplies from Middle'
It was reported that the Dutch fri
take most of their guns out, and con;
•
for prisoners ; and that the Island of
to be given up to the Dutch, and it WO
bhir S
The lice-of.battle ships have oil be
to 500 men each ; and, except the is
have not more than 20P), two of the s!
completely manned with Danes and I
The two tanish Captains command;
home in January last. They have sen
Flushing to Antwerp. All the line c
have their ground tier of water in,
last, which have their casks ready to re
The ships have all been hove dewo ti
are coppered. • •
That he had read in the papers de
•
declared war against France. Ha als
greet number of. thl -French troops
from the island towards Austria, and
ported that the Russians were to join t
The crews of the ships are in a very
Four of these men are Prussians, a
eian : and having expressed a wish to
own country, I ordered them on bo
court till I shell receive their Lords
concerning them. I am, &c.
GEOROE CAMPBELL, VI
The thillourable W. W. Pole. &c. Ste. Adu,
[The inciesure contains another 1
Flushing harbour, agreziog with the p
[Nos. IS, 1.9, 20, 21, and inciosurc
reports of officers who have reconno
of Walcheren. The last mentions, ui
March 26, that the enemy's fleet in
expected to hatil out into the Roads t 1
to take their former anchorage.).
No. 422.—Letract of a Letter from Sir RICIIA
Lord MLLf:aAVL, datt d Venerable, in the
1809.
Ml' Loan—l thought it best not o
letter of the 28th of March, as it did
immediate' answer, till I heard from
the vessels off Flushing, who were dc
(-rive all the information they cot
the batteries on each shore. Captain
me a sketch' of Flushing ; and, althoul
done, I fa ward it to your Lordship,
yole an idea of the boson where the sl
I am told the guns on the works at
mounted on old works faced with st
Captain BON et- has net sent me any
batteries on the Cadsar.d side, but I it
one on the point of Breskin, opposit
also at the point below Borcelen on
tt
lend siee. It seems to be a genera
much resistance is not to be expected a
the reports of the deserters lately coi
the opinion ; but when I consider
tieEheg, I am decidedly of opinion d
let it be ever so well attended by gut
little against the ships of the enern
and would be exposed to be set on tire
oi the enemy ; therefore, is advisal
adly attempts on the town. without ti
of an army. If a squadron should bd
c! existing,, batteries above, the town,
object to take up such an anchorage
enemy from escaping up the river wl
attacked. By the accounts of to-d.
liable, that all the ships of the enem
arc at anchor in the Scheldt, and in ti
op the rive"-, if attacked ; six were at
ethers were preparing to go out of d
t 'cant Duncan says, he thinks one o
line as well as the frigates had Dutch
am, &c. (Signed) R.
423.—Inelosures from Sir RICHAR
(First haelosnre.)
His :',l;tjcsty's Sloop Calliope, off Flushi;
Silt --I have the honour to Rain:
the 4th inst, I reconnoitred in his MI
der My command, the enemy's squad
in company with the Skylark, briny
to Lear notth ; east, the High Chu