Star.
London, England, 1818-04-11 00:00:00

~ti

J form another important subject
The expenses of filing Bills, it ap-
raised, without any legal colour to
e rate of nearly twenty per cent.—
situation in which suitors would be
.ianifold abuses, without the in-
Executive Government, or their
__, was what he must again press to
attention ; and of which the Noble Mar-
farther illustration, as well as of
forensic Officers in Ireland hat
raise their fees no less than 25 per
these positions, he wished it ta
he was far from imputing to his
'ernment the least degree of baciward-
, the provisions of those existing
apply to the counteraction, or put-
extortions on the part of individuals;
most gratifying to the Public to
mm authority, that measures had,
with a view to their suppression;
the duty of that House to take
)wer to farther, or carry into due
teasures thay be adopted towards
iecessary and desirable a purpose,—
moved—" That an humble Ad-
to his Majesty, praying that Co-
; which had been laid before the
of Parliament, since the year 1814.,
taken in Courts of Justice in Ens-
I Ireland, may be laid before their

LIVERPOOL rose, and observed it
" supposed that he rose for the pur-
such a motion as that made by the
On the contrary, he wished to
ial support ; he begged leave, how-
s'ew words upon the occasion. He
the subject was one of great im-
merited the most serious attention.—
the delay which had taken place
forward these Reports, he believed it did
Courts of Justice in either England
_ almost inclusively to those of Ire-
,resent was a subject distinct from any
difference whatever of political sentiment
must be allowed, that the conduct
Jners appointed by the Crown, in
‘vestigations, was most laudable and
-y had entered into the inquiry with-
or affection, and they deserved much
le and creditable manner in which
performed. There had been four
of the description refeiTed to ; two
inderstood, in a forward state. One
deemed advisable, partially at least,
Executive Government (that we be-
Chancery), in order to get the opi-
linent person at its head, and that of
Rolls. The whole Report would
considered, and the nesessary mear
giving effect to the remedies pro-
respect to the Report relating to the
of the Pleas, their Lordships were
ituation in which the question now
ion had taken place, but an Appeal
the opposing party, and until that
by the House, it would be impossible
re measures with respect to it. In the
Officer was appointed who could ac-
profits, and who received no more
salary for the actual- discharge
. person also whose conduct had been
reprehensible, was dismissed. With respect
relative to the Court of Error, It had
• the Judges of Ireland for their eon-
: remaining Reports were either corn.:
.iderable forwardness. He had thought
make this explanation of the way in
stood, and he had no hesitation in
would be the duty and the office of
when the documents were regularly or
them, to apply itself seriously to the con-
' the subject. Whatever was necessary
his Majesty's Government would be
iuted, and he was ready to admit that
was in the Reports shewed a degree
. was hardly thought possible to exist.—
taken place, and was determined to be
.ie trusted, furnish an additional argu-
salutary and important consequences of
ieasure of uniting and consolidating the
'fires into one, and from which still
' consequences were prospectively to

LAUDERDALE rose chiefly to ob-
trusted a report which he had heard
tmely, that certain Offices were given
Report on the subject had been made)
ive Government, in such a manner as
)bject for which that part of the inves-
instituted. He rejoiced that the Re-
about to be laid upon the table ; and he
when the inquiry was completed, the
would be annulled, for he believed the
agree, that such a Commission ought
tue longer than the duties for which it
' should exist. The expense to the
no light one ; and, if it was continued
necessary period, it would in itself be-
- a job as some of those abuses it had
.d brought to light.
luestion was then put, and the Address voted
'l3, the House.--Adjourned till Monday.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
FRANK presented a Petition from a
Cotton-spinners in Manchester, in favour
for regulating labour in cotton factories.
e on the Table.
.RT PEEL, in presenting a similar Pe-
number of the inhabitants of Stockport,
it was entitled to very great respect
, as it proceeded from persons who were
ivainted with the nature of cotton factories,
the daily habit of seeing those who were
them, and who were therefore very
judges of the question at issue. He beg-
Aouse to understand, that among the inch-
rhose signatures were attached to the Peti-
' those of several of the master-manufac--
were thus petitioning Parliament for the
. of the labour of those whom they em-!
There were seven of these masters, one of
particular, Mr. Entwistle, a Gentleman Long
-4 highly respected in all the manufacturing

districts. If these persons thought that any injury
to the trade would arise from the Bill in progress
through the House, they would be the last to recom-
mend its adoption ; but having had so many oppor-
tunities of observing the unhappy condition of the
poor children who were employed in the manufacto-
ries, they felt it to be due from them to state their
opinions on the subject. He had also to inform the
House, that among the petitioners were no less than
eight medical Gentlemen; and when it was consi—
dered that the Petition came from a town which was'
not of the first consequence in the county, that would
appear to be a great number, and would impress
every one still more strongly with the necessity of
agreeing to the measure which he had had the ho-
nour of introducing into the House.
On the motion that the Petition do lie on the table,
, Sir J. GRAHAM observed, that he did not con-
ceive that such Petitions would make much impres-
sion on the House, if they considered from whom
they came—namely, in general, from discontented,
discarded, and good-for-nothing workmen. He had
recently been among many of these people, and he
had heard them say, that if Parliament agreed to
this Bill, for the regulation of the labour of children,
they would next year propose a Bill for the regula-
tion of their own labour ; and would endeavour to
get the same wages for working ten hours in the day
that they now obtained for working, fifteen. His
opinion was, that labour should be altogether free
from any restraint. If free labour had been ,restricted
when he was a boy, he should never have had the
honour of a seat in that House.
Mr. CURWEN observed, that at present it was
asked to limit the duration of a day of labour to ten
hours and a half. If that were granted, the next re-
quest would be to limit it to nice hours. If Pailia-
ment once began to adopt any measures on this sub-
ject, there was no occupation which would not re-
quire specific legislation. At the same time he had
no difficulty in saying, that he wished for some al-
teration on this subject ; and he had eo doubt that
the liberality and benevolence of the Master Manu-
facturers would effect this without au interference on
the part of Parliament, which. in his opinion, would
be most unwise.
Sir ROBERT PEEL beggtd it to be distinctly un-
derstood, that, to his certain knowledge, the charac-
ter of the Petitioners, whose Petition he had just pre-
sented, varied materially from the character given of
them by the Honourable Baronet. They were re-
spectable inhabitants of Stockport, professional men,
and Clergymen, who, observing the evils of the ex-
isting system, stepped forward to give that informa-
tion which the House ought gratefully to receive.
He (Sir Robert Peel) was certainly of their opinion ;
having long been convinced (and he was happy to
hear that his Honourable Friend who had last spoken
entertained similar sentiments), that the hours of la-
bour in cotton factories were excessively protracted.
Mr. BUTTERWORTH said, that he knew many
persons in the North of England, who were in no way
interested in cotton factories, but who were unecini-1
vocally of opinion, that unless some decided measure
were adopted with respect to the rising generation,
the lower classes of the community would, in a few
years, become a degenerate race of human beinks.
Mr. FINLAY, v.-bile he admitted that there were
evils which required very serious attention, contended,
that if Parliament interfered with respect to ore de-
scription of labourers, they could nOt refuse to in:er
fere with respect to every other description. It had
been proved before a Committee of that House, that
the children in the silk manufactories were received
at an earlier age, and were kept at work for a greater
number of hours, than in the cotton manufactories.
The same was the case with respect tb the children-
in flax manufactories. In woollen manufactories the
children were kept as long at work ; and so they
were in the unhealthy button manufactories, and it
the potteries. Was it possible that the Honourable
Baronet could deceive himself into the supposition,
that the regulation of his Bill could be corti...ed to
the cotton manufactories ? Similar evils had been
proved to exist in manufactories of almost every other
descrip•.ioe ; and if, therefore, the principle of legis-
lative interference on the subject were once admitted,
it must in justice he rendered co-extensive with the
evil. He deprecated the consideration of this subject
on the abstract principle of humanity, without any
reference to the existing circumstances of the case.
Mr. WYNN said, that without entering into any
argument on the question, he wished merely to state,
that he did not think the adoption of the Bill which
had been introduced by the Honourable Baronet
would evince any hostility, to the principle, that it
was generally expedient not to interfere with free la-
bour. For on what was that principle founded ?On
the knowledge that by leaving the regulation of the
labour in the hands of the master, if he worked his la-
bourer too hard, that labourer could resort to some
other employment. Now this was wholly inappli-
cable to children of a tender age, who were placed
in cotton factories ; and who were necessarily at
the mercy of their masters. What remedy had they
if they Were overworked ? He did conceive that it
was in strict conformity to the principle on which
the House ought to act, that they should interfere in
the case of children who had no resort when oppres-
sed. Where was the difference between children who
were free labourers and apprentices ? Those chil-
dren, who were placed in cotton factories by their
parents, had no more remedy if overworked than ap-
prentices. They had not so much ; for apprentices
had it in their power to go before a Magistrate, and
complain if their masters tasked them beyond their
strerith. If it was proved that in any way masters
were enabled to task the children whom they em-
ployed beyond their health aad strength, he was com-
pletely ready to contend that a case had been made
out which called, and called imperatively, for the in-
terference of the Legislature.—The Petition was then
ordered to li.. on the table.
HOSTILITIES IN INDIA.
Mr. HOWORTH—" Sir, I am desirous of putting
some questions, on a very interesting and important
subject, to tip Right Honourable Gentleman oppo-
site, who is at the head of the Administration of In-
dia. It has been stated to the public in the dally
prints, that two battles have been already fought be-
tween the Company's troops and the Mahratta
forces. It has been said that the Peishwa, with a
large army, amounting to forty thousand men, at-
tatted a body of the Company's troops, which had
been admittedinto his territory in perfect amity, and
for purposes of mutual advantage. lam not aware

what could have been the motive for this sudden act
of hostility on the part of a Chief with whom the
Company had been for so many years on terms of
friendship, but the statement is, that with the army
which I have described, he did actually attack a body
of four thousand subsidiary troops in the service of
the Company. This gallant little army is said to
have completely repulsed its assailants, and its suc-
cess is in a great measure attributed to the bravery
and skill of its officers ; but in consequence of the
greet disparity of numbers in the contending parties
the conflict is described to have been very severe, and
the slaughter to have been in proportion to that dis-
parity. A few days afterwards it is said that the
Company's army, having received a reinforcement,
attacked the Mahrattas in their turn, defeated the
Peishwa, and got possession of Poonah, his capital.
It is likewise stated, that nnfortuaately two British
Officers fell into the hands of the Peishwa, and that
they were immediately executed. Sir, in my opinion,
when the Court of Directors of the Honourable East
India Company receive accounts of any actions fought
in India, they ought to take the earliest opportunity
of publishing those accounts, with a return of the
killed and wounded. That not having been done in
the present case, I wish to ask the Right Honourable
Gentleman, whether the statements to which I have
adverted are founded in fact ? If they are so, I re-
peat, that I think the earliest opportunity ought to
be taken of publishing the details, together with the
returns of the killed and wounded, in order to relieve
the suspence of those who may have had friends en •
gaged, and who must necessarily be extremely anxious
to ascertain their fate. Sir, I understand that later
accounts have been received from India of still
greater importance. It is said that the Rajah of Be..
rar, with a force similar to that under the Peishwa,
made a simultaneous attack on another body of the
Company's subsidiary troops. .I confess, Sir, that this
last intelligence fills me with the most unaffected
alarm ; and I beg to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman,
with reference to this as well as to the former report,
whether or not it is founded in fact ? and if it is so,
what are the particular circumstances which have
come to the knowledge of his Majesty's Government
with respect to it ?"
Mr. CANNING—" lam very ready, Sir, to give
the Honourable Gentleman and the House all the in-
formation in my power on this subject, although I
cannot undertake to enter into any of the details re-
specting it. It is undoubtedly true that the Peishwa
has commenced hostilities-against the forces of the
East India Company. It is undoubtedly true that in
two actions fought between armies greatly dispro-
portionate in point of number, the advantage was
decidedly in favour of the. Company's troops. But,
Sir, I am happy to add, that one part of the state
ment referred to by the Honourable Gentleman, is
not true, namely, that the slaughter was proportio-
nate to the disparity of the force of the conflicting
parties. We are not yet in possession of such re-
turns with respect to these battles as it would be
fit to publish under the authority of Government.—
While the possibility of doubt exists with respect to
the accuracy of the returns, it would be highly im-
proper to give them any official sanction ; for those
who are as well acquainted with India as the Ho-
nourable Genileman, know well how much private
accounts from that quarter of the world outrun of-
ficial details in their various relations. Some of the
statements, therefore, which have been alluded to
by the Honourable Gentleman, I, morally speaking,
have no doubt are facts, although I am not compe-
tent so to announce them officially. As.far, how-
ever, as I am informed on the subject, it gives me
great satisfaction to say that it does not appear that
these conflicts have cost the life of a single European
officer, and that -not more than three officers were
wounded, the nimes of whom have appeared in all
the Newspapers, on the authority of Bombay Ga-
zettes, which, singular as it may appear, have not
reached his Majesty's Government. It is, I fear, true,
that two individuals, the one an officer, the other a
gentleman in the civil service, suffered in the way
mentioned by the Honourable Gentleman. With re-
spect to the proceedings of the Rajah of Berar, the
information possessed by the Secret Committee of
the Directors of the East India Company, and by
the Board of Controul, rests on a single letter with-
out a date. If the Honourable Gentleman asks me
if I believe the information which that letter contains,
my answer is, I do. But if he asks me if it is of such
a nature that I can communicate it with the sanction,
of official authority, my answer is, i cannot. The
Honourable Gentleman will easily see, that an un-
dated letter, which merely states an attack by the
Mahrattas, but not the result—l mean any further
than their immediate repulse—is not an account of
the transaction which could with propriety be pub-
lished by authority. This I will undertake to say,
that there is no disposition in any quarter to with-
hold intelligence respecting this interesting subject,
or to do any thing not conformable to the estab-
lished usage respecting India affairs. But the Ho-
nourable Gentleman knows as well, or indeed much
better than I do, how little interest is excited here by
-the occurrences in that quarter ofthe globe. Singular
as it may seem, it has never been the practice to com-
municate to Parliament any intelligence from India,
except in cases of a very extraordinary nature. So
far am I, however, from wishing to withhold any
thing that can properly be granted, that if the.Ho-
nourable Gentleman will frame a motion for such
information as ought to be and can be furnished, I
will most readily assent to its production; and if he
will do me the favour to communicate with me on
the subject, I shall be very happy to assist him in
preparing such a motion."
Mr. HOWORTH expressed himself extremely ob-
liged to the Right Hon. Gentleman for the candid
reply which he had made to his (Mr. Howorth's)
questions. Two simultaneous attacks having been
made on the Company's forces, in the Mahratta ter-
ritory, was unquestionably a circumstance calcu-
lated to excite a very painful interest. He would
certainly avail himself of the Right Honourable Gen-
'tleman's kind offer of assistance ; and would take an
early opportunity of submitting to the House a mo-
tion cr. the subject.
Lord MORPETH thought the House much in-
debted to the Honourable Gentleman, for having
called their attention to this important subject. He
perfectly agreed with the Honourable Gentleman in
thinking that the circumstances had a very formida-
ble appearace; and he trusted that the public would

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•511101m1
e Ireland, would also for
1 .
of consideration. The i
geared, had been raised
sanction it, to the rate
The defenceless situatio
left through those mani
terposition of the Exe
Lordships' House, was
II their serious attention ;
quis offered some fart]
1 ' the position that fore
found means to raise
cent. In advancing tl
be understood that he
'' , . Majesty's Government
l ness in enforcing the
laws which may apply
! • ting down such extorti
but it would be most
° have it declared from
_
4 , or would be taken, wit
/), - and it certainly was th
every step in its power
effect, whatever meas
so obviously necessary
His Lordship then mo
dress be presented to I
11
pies of all Reports v.
Commons House of P
relative to Fees take
V land, Scotland, and Ir
Lordships' House:'
The Earl of LIVEI
could not be well sup
pose of opposin g such
Noble Marquis. On
t afford it his cordial st
i ! i ever, to say a few
agreed also that the
Il , I portance, and merit(
With reference to tl
! in bringing forward ti
' not apply to the Cou
or Scotland, but aim
.
land. The present u
1 ' question or difference
or opinion ; and it m
' 0
of the Commissioner:
i making the investig
. exemplary. They h
out favour, fear, or a
praise for the able a
their duties were poi
Reports made of tI
li others were, he uncle
i of these, it was deer
14 ; to submit to the Exe
lieve of the Irish Ch
',ion of the eminent
I the Master of the R
be thoroughly consi
• i . sures adopted for g
• / posed. With respe
office of Clerk of •
aware of the situat
stood. A decision I
was lodged by the
was disposed of by
! I
to adopt decisive m
an time,
me an 011ie
count for all the pn
than a sufficient sal
the duties ; the per!
found so reprehensi
to the Report relat,
been laid before the
sideration. The re
plete, or in consider
*at proper to make
which the case stex
0 I saying that it we),
Parliament, when
fully before them,i
sideration of the
on the part of his
fully contributed,
much of what v..a,
of abuse that was I
l' , • What had taken
done, would, he to
ment of the salut:
the great measure
two Legislatures
• more beneficial co
i be hoped for.
The Earl of LA
serve, that he trim
was untrue, name
11 1 . away (since the Re
by the Executive 1
''' I to defeat the objet
1 0 tigation was insti
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J ' 1 ports were about
expected that whe t
.°!, ' Commission woul
House would agn
not to continue
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1111
was appointed sl
country was no li
beyond the nems
come as great a
detected and brot
The question ,a
unanimously by t
• HO
Admiral FRA
, number of Coto'
' I
. I of the Bill for re
I I /
I i Ordered to lie or
Sir ROBERT
titian from a nun
observed that it
and attention, as
well acquainted
i who were in the
I j , employed in th
I competent judge
ged the House t
I ! viduals whose si
• tion, were those
wren, who wer
curtAlment of I
ployed. There
II 1 1
them In particul
1,
1 j , ~.S• known and high
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