Star.
London, England, 1811-01-15 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. Alderman COMBE presented the petition of the Livery
of London, praying,that the Prince of Wiles may be appointed
Regent, without restrictions or limitations. The peduon was
laid on the table.

A Message was brought from the Lords, desiring a conferente
wit► this House. The Managers on the last Conference were
appointed to manage the pre►ent one.
On their return Lord CLIVE read at the Bar the Resolution.
of the Hoye of Lords (entered into on Friday) for opening the
Parliament, which Resolution the Lords desired this House to
goncnr• with.
The Resolution was brought up, and referred to the Commit-
tee on the State of the Nation.

TIME DZFAULTERS.

On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
the names of the defaulters on the last Call of the House were
called over, when Sir James Stewart, Mr. Albany Seville, Mr.
Hans Hamilton, Mr. Jame► Daly, Mr. M. Are Wall, Sir G. F.
Hill, and Mr. A. French, were ord red to be taken into custody.
Mr. Sneyd, Mr. 11. J. Clements, and two other Members, were
ordered to appear in their places on this day se'nnight. Several
other Members (sufficient grounds being stated to the House for
fhetr absence) were excused.
OPINING OF PARLIAMENT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
moved the Order of the Day for the House to go in-
to a Committee on the State of the Nation.

The House having gone into the Committee, and
the Resolution of the House of Lords brought up by
Lord CLIVE, having been referred to the said Com-
mittee,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
rose, and adverting to the Resolution which the Chair-
man (Mr. Lushington) was about to read, suggested
to the Committee, that there would be no necessity
for reading the whole of it, as it had been read at the
Bar, and was merely a recitation of the Letters Pa-
' tent for opening the Parliament. The Right Hon.
Gentleman then observed, that he should not deem it
necessary to preface the motion which he was about,
to make with many observations, as during the
whole course of the proceedings, taken on this occa-
sion, the Committee must be %ware it would ultl-
mately lead to the one he wonrd now propose. No
doubt every Gentleman wits of opinion, that after the
concurrence which had taken place between the two
Houses, and after the communications made" to his
Royal Highness the Prince of Wales and her Ma-
jesty of the Resolutions of the Houses, that a Reso-
lution would be proposed similar to the one just read
at the Bar. The course of proceeding adopted in
1789, was exactly, in point, now under considera;::on;
and no part of the precedent was more completely
established at that time than this : that under a Com-
mission similar in point of form, the Parliament was
opened, and continued to sit, even after the happy pe-
riod of his Majesty's recovery, transacted business
Without any reference to I....cceeding Commissions.—
He trusted, therefore, coat in making the motion, the
Committee l':;erid see the policy of acceding to it.—
' He f2;uuld simply move,
" That the Committee de agree with the Resolution brought
up from the Lords, ordering the necessity of issuing Lettcrs Pa'
tent fora Commission to open the Parliament."
On the question being put,
Mr. SHERIDAN rose and said, that as on a for-
mer day the Right Hon. Gentleman had expressed a
wish for delay in the decision of this question, in con-
sequence of the great importance of the subject and
the length to which the debate was likely to be car-
ried, he was a little surprised at the course pursued
by the Right Honourable Gentleman that night. He
Could not have expected that he intended merely to',,
ask of Parliament to conform to the precedent ofi
:1788 is all its points : but, on the contrary, he did
expect that he Would have opened the subject to a
*,new Parliament, one in which there were so few of
those Members who were present at the discussions
in 1788. It would unquestionably have been much
more respectful, at least to the Committee, to have
, given them some reasons why they should consent to
adopt this most extraordinary mode of proceeding.
But the Right Honourable Gentleman said, that if
....there Was any part of the precedent which wa.., estab-
• .lisheamine-fully than another, it was that which re-
. fated to the use now to be made of the Great Sea.—
Now he (Mr. Sheridan). would contend that Parlia-
went was in another sitnation--:in •a
different predi-
cament from that in which it stood in 1788, At that
time, the majorities in both Houses were such as to
- render any distinct opposition to t'ie proceeding use.
less and hopeless. Then an Honrurable 1 fiend of
his had withdrawn from illness ; and others did not
think it necessary, under all the circumstances, to
take any particular part on this branch of the subject,
after what had heen already said. There was ano-
ther circumstance also which put Parliament at pre-,
sent in a -very different situation from that in which
itwas only a fortnight ago. He knew that there was
irregularity in mentioning matter that had oc-
curred in another House ; but was there no difference
with respect to the well-known proceedings of the
other House—between the present case and that of
1798 ? Suppose the other flow to have resolved
differently from the House of Commons, and they
Might see a case which would actually involve the ex-
. tinction of the whole Executive Government ; it was
. known, he might be permitted at least to say,' by ru-
• mour. thit the House of 'Lords, in their Committee,
lad, in the first ipitauce, noted agairlt-the Reeolur

-.~

~ ,

,

• :
' . '

W!A.

,x 7151,
•

don of the Committee of the Cotturtoost that they
had resolved in favour of A Regent, not subject to re-
strictions and limitations. Suppose the Lords to
have persevered in that vot,-, and not to have been
drawn from it by the apprehension of dangerous con.
'sequences : if the other House had persisted in their
'resolution, and this important difference of opinion
lad continued, he desired to know whether the Right
Honourable Gentleman had within his power any
remedy to apply for the purpose of making a legal
Executive Government, without which they could not
legislate ? Why, there could.be nothing less than a
total extinction of the Government of the ccuntry.
Now, let the Right Honourable Gentleman reflect
biow very near happening all this had actually been
~What right had he to say that similar differences
might not exist ? Why might they not again arise,
and in their results deprive the country of a legiti-
mate Government? What had already occurred
might surely occur again ; indeed, he thought it was
extremely probable that such would be the case. If,
therefore, it was not too late, he should decidedly
prefer to the present mode, some mode which might
extricate them from the difficulties in which they
were likely to involve themselves. As for delay in
the earlier stages of their proceedings, lie certainly ad-
mitted for himself, that he felt no desire to be preci-
pitate: on the contrary, though reluctantly and with
regret differing from many of his friends, he had been 1
favourable to some delay, whenever lie had heard
that it was likely, by granting it, that the recovery
of his Majesty would soon put an end to this neCess
sity of taking any farther steps. But again, let the
House recollect that they were not in the same situa-
tion which they were in only a fortnight ago. At
that time the House of Commons had not usurped
any of the functions of the Executive Power; but
manifestly they had done so since that period; there.
fore they ought not now to delay a single moment in
adopting the means of terminating such an usurpa-
tion—(Hoer hear.) The usurpation, at that time,
was on the part of the Ministers ; but now, circum-
stances had led them to abdicate their usurpation to
the House of Commons ; though he would venture to
say, if he might be allowed the expression, that the
usurpation of the Ministers was a more constitutional.
usurpation than that of the House of Commons—
(Hear.) It was better that they should, in such an
exigency, carry on the Executive Goiernment, and
take the chances of their responsibility, than that the
Executive Power should be seized by the House of
Commons. Here he need hardly say, that he re-
ferred to the monstrous act of seizing on the King's
Exchequer. After several observations on this trans-
action, he said that Lord Grenville could not have
r acted otherwise than he did. His. Lordship had
said, in effect—“, I will not usurp the Preroga-
tives of the Crown ; but do you go, and apply to
Parliament to do that." In the case of a prorogation
and 'of the necessity of paying the army and navy, it
might have been different, and an individual must
risk his responsibility for a necessary act. Parliament
sitting, Lord Grenville was right in telling Ministers
to go there. But the principle on which Parliament
had proceeded, might be pushed to the full extent of
taking the whole executive power into their own
hands. Suppose a question of negotiation for peace,
or of fitting out and sending abroad an army and a
fleet, Parliament might be justified in transacting
.such great public executive business, by a Secret
Committee for instance, just as much as they could
for the commission of that monstrous Act which he
had already called to their recollection. The 'situa-
tion of affairs rendered it more and more eligible to
resort to the shortest way of getting aid of this sys.
tem of usurpation. If they chose to go on as they
had done, they might as well order the Great Seal
to be affixed to an act to extinguish the kingly power
altogether. (Hear, hear.) He did not intend to
trouble the House with dividing; but the question he
wished to put to them was, whether this circuitous
mode of proceeding was the quickest way of arriving
at their object ? Or, whether it was not a better
mode to resolve upon a plain, direct address to the
Prince of Wales, requesting him to open the Parlia-
ment, and to take upon himself the administration of
the civil and military powers °Caw country • to open
the Parliament, not as a Regent, but until the Rei
gency is Provided ? That would not interfere with
their precedent, as to the mode of proceeding by Bill
to enact a Regency. See the distinction between the ,
one mode, and that of addressing the Prince, as he
recommended, to open Parliament himself for no
longer time than until such Bill of Regency should
pass. The plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman pre-
sented a number of possille and probable difficulties,
if ever they came into a situation which might defeat
its object. Then tee whole plan must fall to the
growal, if the di tferen:e of opinion of the two Houses
shruid recur; and thus, as he had said before, there
would be an extinction of the Government. (Hear.)
He supposed it -as to be taken for granted,that Lard
Eldon would put the Great Seal to the Commission
for opening Parliament. The Right Honourable
Gentleman, he supposed, knew Lord Eldon's deter-
mination o that point. Bet was he quite ao sure,
that Lord .ldon would pot it to an Act to create the
Regent ? There was some difference between the
ii•ts of using the Great Seal, for the opening of Par-
liament, and for the creation of a Regent. There
might be some excuses made for seizing on the Great
Sea: for the former purpose, and the fiction to be
made use of,-might find a justification in necessity.
But the other use of the Seal was entirely against
law ; it was against the act of the 33d of Henry the ,
Eighth, and the Act of Charles the Second, which
made it high treason to legislate without the three
branches of the Legislature. Would Lord Eldon .
use the Great Seal in that manner ? If he would
not, why then, they were all thrown on their backs.
Did the Right Hon. Gentleman know from any good
,information, or ,from any traditionary authority, that
Lord Thurlow would have affixed the Great Seal to
that Act ? He (Mr. Sheridan) declared that the bias
of the inclination pf his mind was, that Lord Thur.
low would have stopped at that second act. But if
it were not so, if he had done it, could it have more
weight than if the Prince new took upon himself the
opening of Parliament in Consequence of an Address?
Would the Great Seal give any greater authority to
the Regency Bill, by using it in the manner now
proposed ? (Hear.) He wished to ask the Crown
Lawyers on the opposite benches, who certainly were
no; yet exhausted by the display either of their law
or their rhetoric, in the discussions that had recently
taken place for their opinions--(Hear, hearl-446