Star.
London, England, 1811-05-08 00:00:00

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• ritioit the . ,s 6 4 .
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atm of tome? di. „..e valsie wail Afttnatai the eitienet of. living in rrussta naUtrett *fry *Axil ott6ed the triniets tithe Itapott with itterntnenaing laay excess in the cuereney, When Gentlameo
`'ll *r coin. A small devia- augmented AtiVlWAilltilitlg*tkottd.tharthe prin.', bold and reels experiments' - end .Pith Wing the talitedegisor -of. SP' eaten- in-tales ft was idle-and
b the standartP.Glll,lo
to the principle of his Hon. Friend eiples to which he had before referred, *ere so cir- House to die/brink of a pteeipiee. -..1 _ !So one . futile. Until the Bank restrictions were imposed,
Corn WAS is fatal
as a large One, . Foe his part, he never Worst knew cumscribed and modified by a variety of circum- opposed the motion On the appointment' of this rrno man kuew„the emount f)f notes issued. It woo ,
that No notes had a standard value. They had a 1 stances, that their practical effect wei extrentely Committee, and those who were appointed had all:with the Directors of the Bank ; and he would..
cu
; value ; a-, cab* liven them by the public ere- 1 doubtful and uncertain.—Before iteould be admitted ,no choice left but to do their, duty, and. make up be obliged to any, of these Geptienrin to inform hinii
slit. This, howeveois Honourable Friend denied- i ,that the state of exchange was the great criterion of 1 their opinions from the best view they' could take of 1 what thesecret wasbylvlsich they could gaugethe public
But he should like to know in how Man,' cases his k the increase of currency, it.was necessary to inquire ; the evidence beforesthem. It did not, therefore, stern i wants as an, exciseman would .gauge a cask, and °lily .
ffrnummtble and Learned Friend had himself found 1 into the nature and Present situation of exchange. }to hinato be fair to charge any errors la the Report in. issue precisely what was necessary ? fie now entered
Bank notes not astailable to all the purposes to which I Exchange- was one of the' last improvements of re- this manner, upon those who had only acted conscien- into an explanation of the sigltifitation appropriated '
Min could, have been applied ? He was desirous al,o I fined commerce. It'depended very much on the east „tiously in the.discharge of their duty. And, indeed, to the word "excess" by the Committee, atileaste.br
t,, know, in which of two senses he was to understand correspondence and copmunication between the va- the expression of an opinion on this important subject himself in agreeing with their Report. lie triokAt, :
the alledged depreciation of Bank notes ; whether as ! riots countries of Europe; and on the uniform and was'called for by the attention which it had excited for granted, as it neither had been nor could be eon•
considered comparatively with coin, or by the r- 1 uninterrupted cpur,'Se of trade. The state of Conti;- out of doors by the public They could not do bet- troverted, that the coin of this or any qther country
oral excess of te currens,yr tie had thought that ; nentil.kornmercit was directly the reverse of all this.; ter than their ancestors had done, who, on a similar had no value but with reference to the gold and silver
the Bullion Co mittee would have specified the It Was surrounded by all the impediments of a in. 'state of things;in 1796, had taken these steps s—The it or they contain. ,Ile also,essumed this other pro•.
the kind of depreciation which, in their I lons despotism; by proscriptions; I- prohibitions, 'Treasury called on their Secretary,. Mr. Lowndes, r • that the paper cur-- had no valve but
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gr"-T; •••'' 47-

latter as le .
opinion, Bank Notes had experiehced. He had
Imagined
.they would have reported, that althouth
Bank Notes were, let all domestic purposes equi-
valent to cash, • they shared in the reduction of
the general Irate of the whole currency. It was
iitpossible to donht that for domestic purposes
notes were equiVe4. to o.9in. Every day, every
-ice, afronleskovidence of
_this fact.

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and by every 'other mode of -inrerrnptibn dannoy-
ance. The commerce of the Continent at the present
moment, departing from the improvements of civilized
life, assimilated to the practice of the barbarous ages.
It. was carried on by a kind of barter resembling that
by which the savages of Africa and America sapplieds
their wants. Was it extraordinary, then, that when
EurooP was in-such a situa.'on, the should
v? or

, 1 •
than whom a more able and enlightened man noTrea,
sury ever possessed, to enquire into the subject athe
coinage and make a repent to them. And when this
report was made, what did they do ?, They did not
immediately act upon it, but caused it to be printed
at the King's press and eircolated through the coon-
try, invitiug all men of talent and knowledge in such
'matters to ' ' and give their opinions thereon
_ _

position, currency -
with reference to the coin it represented. Themeces.
,nary consequence of these two propositions was„: that
the currency im.Coics and paper could not exceed what
svouLl have been the circulation in coin alone,•and if
it did exceed. that circulation, the excess`tnust lead to
a proportionate depreciation. it was obvious that the '
value of the ,money of any country was-in the inverse a
atio of its quantity. The value in cn v.. being

.urrency,
.inly the quinLity bf coin, it being measured by ti)
standard, coulsi• net be.:depreciated But the pipes,
superadded to this circulation was at once the proof
'and measure.of the depreciation.it occasioned, as paper
had no value but, with refetienee to coin„and coin nta
value bus with reference to the standard. Here the
Hon. Gentleman.strengthened. the opinion he.main. ,
tained by 'the, Authority of Lord Liverpool ; the
new doctrines which they ( the Bullion Committee) were
Chargedwith broaching, were thus.: of the laws estih
r-pa
alm, of IpordLiverpool, and the doctrines of theAeose,,
liesteetnethauthors on political etionomy. at followed
from whathr had stated, that the paperrcturengype446.e
tenting coin which.was not convertible into coldidalisni•
such Tv:amity of gyld as that coin would proeuktkixte
deoreciated.--4se of,the witnesses 11+.d statqd d.et4b
twenty-shilling, cinte,did not represent that quantity of
coin, but of ethet.coonodities ; and this .waa.orte.
of the arguments tin which doe Gentlemen (appetite,
laid great stress. • Brit after all it resolved itself otter
the same:conclusion, for let theratake it so•-•-i.itelliSSest.
commodities represented by this note had only isalue
in reference to gold or silver, -and thus the mauls- '
were removed but one degree from the note. Much.,
perplexity was introduced into this discu,sion, not to,.
the Report of the Committee, but by the,coinnaants.,
on the subject of depreciation made by th,se who es.
poused. the -other side. The opinion of the
mittee turned on the fact of gold and silver being
commodities. The depreciation they meant was,iia.
to currency of the country, measured as it were 4r-
itself, and not by any general cause, such as the in-
crease of taxation, ascribed as a ground by Gentle- .
men on the other side. When he was asked what was
the present depreciation, he would say it was will&
reference to the legal coin of the realm. If that de.
itreciation proceeded from debasement of the coin, he
would detect it by reference to the Miat ; and if from
paper issues, he would detet it by reference to the-

hour's experience,
Those who asserted the contrary wervbentid to pro
their assertion. It was" 011 known that a tender Or
Bank notes Was not a legat t'ender, and that although
it exempted from arrest the -person by whom the.
tender was made, yet that he was compellable by law
to pay in coin. I Had e single;•initante occtrrred
in which such a tender had been refused, and Ilay
Ment in coin been compelled He had never
heard of one. If any had occurred, he should
to know the circumstances attending it, because he
was persuaded that. those Teircum'stances must be
wholly uncortnected with a,d,onsidiration..of the,
depreciation of Bank notes. If inch an event hatD
recurred, it might have on in caprice or ma-
lice; but he repeated, that be Was 'yet to learn that
any such had taken place; and to him it was fully
evident that Bank notes maintained the same public
estimation 46 coin. It was most important that
the distinction between the two kin& of depre-
ciation should he carefully madet When; the or-
dinary paper currency sunk _below the coin it re.
presented, then an effect was produced on fc4eign ex-
changes ; but the depreciation which arose, not from
that circumstance,' but from an excess of currency in
general, .did not affect the, foreign exchanges,lont byt
its effect on the state of trade. The high prices
which that excess caused, produced a diminution of
exports, and an increase of imports. ' An ultiinate
change in the foreign exchanges might thus be occa-
sioned ; but as long as the increased price of goods
did not diminish the demand for them, that in-
creased price, so far from being injurious, would be
advantageous to the exch?hge. In support of this
opinion, he would refer to the evidence even before
the Bullion Committee by Sir Francis Baring, an in-
iblviebost memory he entertained a respect,
as sitteere:kg that exPresaed yester"rVy eveninic
Rightllni.Triend Of his. To Sir Francis nartnae
folk, luestion had been proposedi in the _

_ exchange .
be unfavourable to this country ?. or would it be ex-
traordinary if there was no exchange at all ? Could
it be necessary fot every man who contemplated the
state of the-socrdy-to seek for other cause% to-ettable
'hitn to adbulft`for the Unfavourable state of ex-
change, sifila.hoWever was not so match against this
country as tight naturally have been expected under
all the circumstances of the case ? Upon the subject
of exchange, however, he begged to submit to the
Committee, that Gentlemen ought not to be surprised
if large profits were made upon exchange which was
obviously a secret of commercial speculation; When
stigh large profits were made upon every thing else, '
it was natural that a larger profit should betcharged
upon exchange, than upon any other artigle.of ,cota,
snercial speculation; because it was onA rhicpeis„
perhaps more narrowly watched, and; ;nore
diately under the cohtronl of the .enetity 'than any)
other trtirtsrtion connected with commerce. Bef
'he entered.npon'a short view of the nature and obj
'of the propositions, which he hag circulated among.!
the Members of trllAjipuse„ there ,were torte or two
points i.o which he begged leave very shortly to ad-
vert :—ln the discasion which hachaken place upon
this subject, it hadileen urged that the profits of the
Bank of late had been very great; and it had been
in a manner insinuated, that the
.issues of the ,Bank
, had been increased in consequence, or rather that the,
increased profits of the Bank was the result of the
enlarged issue of their notes. He wished to refer them
to the opinion delivered in 1797 by 2 member of that
House ; that if any very considerable proportion of
the Bank paper were to be drawn in, for instance five
millions, it would be necesary to have, its plaC2 sup-
plied by some other substitute of paper. Npw he
would ask, if any thing could be 'apprehended in
the case of such a reduction without an equivalent,
but a general bankruptcy—of bankruptcies there had
been aimed: -ugh to make the heaFt ache.-

___:s , investigate.
What was the consequence of this proceeding'? , All
such principles . those advanced by thu Right Hon.
Gentleman to4u lit had been cornpletelt overturned.
He now.tanii .thitonsideration of those first Prin-
ciples to. which he'llad alluded. He held as the first
of these, that, the only current legal coin of the realm
tvas gold and silver_ of a certain fineness ; and, 2d,
that. the quantity was ascertained, by weight, and that
weight was the only standard: 'lt followed from' ti:.ese
two princiPle3, that rite coin- of the realm. was dete-
riorated in as much in it 411.shortin-rhat standard
weight, and was pgrfgct, a,s it•approximated towards
it. As the spiNosan was. a wolfl often used in this.',
discussion, it might be welt'to define what it meant.
The standard' meant no more than the quan'tit'y' of
gold and silver coined. At 'an early period in "bur
history, the very names of coins denoted this,facr, as
they did,also in the Roman and other ancient,States.
Their names were the names of weights by which
other commddities were purchased. As, for instance,
the livie of ' France—the mark—the pound-the
shilling—and;the pennyt of pennyweight of this cOun,
try ; and that the standard was the quantity was fur-
ther shevrn by the Act of 17fienry lilt in 1266, which
declared the. standard, of wig.at, whenever the loaf of.
bread weighed 16 pounds, 16s. And when coins ceas-
ed'iri some menidre to. tretain. these appelLitions, it ,
appearld from :many ancient proclamations, that the
coin was stiU,ordered to- be of full weight ; or that if'
it fell short or thatohat an allowance should be made'
for such deficiency in the tale. :Dm, without. going
back to' remote periods, was not the Hon. Gentmansi
aware When lie stated that thevalueof thu shilling was
not ascertained by its weight, but tired under the prero-1
gative of the King ; that by an Act passed so late as!
the 14111 of his present Majesty, intituled, g, An Act
for weighing gold and silver coin, &cc." it was re-
iviteci that there should be weights A- guineas and
shillings according to the established standard of his
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mittee :•••4 japposing the excess of tht ctrenlition
of pap6e toliein a degree such as to increase the
price of coMmodlties, wotild that increase of price pro-
duce any effect upori the foreign exchange, until it
arrived to the degree so as to check the exportation
of merchandize ?" Sir F. Baring replied :—" An ex-
cess of paper circulation will, no doubt, affect and
raise the whole of the productive labour and industry
of the country. The: proportion that is exported will
participate to the extent of its value ; and as the ne- '
'escarp consequence of high prices is a rechiction oii
'the demand, it must operate decisively on .the foreign
exchanges, unless they are supported,or the fall coun-
teracteA by an export of bullion, But untiPthe• de-
mand or exportation is checkel„.4n inelcsa! of
.pricil
will picoduce a bene4ialeA4,oqtoxeraiiichaiiies.",
The Committee h ' taken no pains to enquire, into
the capsea of the. ratidurinithapien lafiatt •arti-
-44.
Cies of trade"" *IMP. l'itOtittiliA fiails'een many.
and'aiiiiitte'retfirdsimoll4Alijett ; and the effect ~on
--1 r" h; • • -N.materially

_ ,h .ay vioug._ ..., .._
The /tight Honourable Gentleman then. proceeded
to illustrate his own proPo4itions. With regard to the
first, whatever might he the prerogative, he thought
that without a breach cif public faith, no change could
be mide in the currency. -In.lxis second lie proposed
to the House that the,.eng4crents of the Bank of
England to the public, were to pay their value in the
legal coin, and nothing but the lekal coin ; and that
the. Bank had always, wide:nit the intervention of the
Sovereign authority, been willing to pay their value in
the legal coin. An the case of the Bank. restriction in
1797, it was the priuciples of foreign policy alone by
1 which it was clictatO. ;From_ our foreign wars, and
1 the prospect of'invaion, It became exceedingly
,im-
portant to guardatgainst the danger of alarm. When-
ever,,uport. Or cessation of hOstiiities, Circumstances
shoulil aclfrip of calling upon the Dank, it would then
be alloWed. 7:44 far from any thing in this Resolution
I g:oing again#4is principle, it admitted that wherever
I,the relations Onhis country niinlerender it expedient,
The third

Majesty's Mint. --Could they then be told that the r
base coin.now in circulation, called a shilling, but
which he called a counter, was the legal coin of the!
realm ? He asserted that it was but by its possessing!
t full weight that it could be so considered ; and in
confirmation of his statement, read the Act`by which
silver is declared not to be a legal tender for any pay.
ment above £25. And now wheil the shillings were
as base and deteriorated as they wire in King Wil-
liam's time, to argue that they were good and legal
I coin, was most strange and absurd. But to estaLtish
his position still more strongly, he begged leave to
recap the attention of the Committee to the fact of
the gold coin in 1771, which was declared by statute
to be no longer a legal tender of payment, if the
guinea fell under the weight of five penny-weights,
and,eight grains; and at that period it was still fur-
ther in contemplation to make it legal tender, when
it was reduced under that weight, by a scale of dimi-
nished values, in proportion to the diminution of weight.
he alarmed that now. nt to the

sondard which measured all other commodities..;
Were the coin deteriorated '25 per cent. then the coitV .
rsiould be to the standard what the paper was to the
coin. In 1636 the silver coin was much deteriorated*,
and what was the consequence ? Parliament ,
(Government proceeded to reform that debasement,: , .
=Could any one say but that both the silver cola/
I and the paper were now deteriorated. thirty pa:,
cent ? The depreciation in the notes arising natut•
rally from the depreciation of the currency ? No, •
creditor of the Bank of England could obtain in pay.
ment any thing but Bank-of-England notes. For this
there was no remedy. But by law they were net;
strictly a legal tender, though they amounted to it
in effect from various causes, and from being taken
at par in the receipt of the revemtes. The Honour,
able Gentleman then referred to the able report made.
in 1717, which clearly stated the cause of the great
exportation which then took place in silver to have
arisen from the Mint price of that metal nct being in
to the Mint price of -11 The Mint price

hit mtiitla was, that those prices had. hem.
raised by thesicarithy -df sad 1101.4 SiUce that
'period the priceihad certainly trinttnued tn,rise, bur
.11°C" and they had by 1..0 means risen more
within the lastiwo years,, ;halt within tits two years
immediately preceding. Would any body say,-that,
in correspondence with ;he yise ofsbullion, general ar-
• tides of trade were '2.s:per tent. deater,than'ihei,were
two years ago? There were zany Which were 20
per cent. cheaper than they were tweryeirs ago. By,
assuming that a genetal depreciation orthe:tuttencY
Votdd:immediately affect the exchanges (contrary to
the opinion of Sir Francii-Baring audio the fact) the

that the resumption should take place.
Resolution was proposed to Parliament, to declare
.that the Bank of England notes had always been
"hitherto accepted and held as coin. It appeared to
him consonant to the wisdom of Parliament to declare
thCir opinion nn this subject. The following prlposi
tion states, that exchanges were in many former in-
.stances unfavouralile, while there was no excess of pa-
per currency, and while there was no depreciation,
becausethe paper currency' could be cOnvertible into
specie. This appeared from the documents on the
table. He then went on to di;clare, that rbere were
circumstances now. affecting our commercial relations
_ . _ ,

In like manner he a._ ~ except
amount of .C.? 5, when it was received as a token, not as
coin, silver was not a legal tender, though taken in
tala as with reference to its weight. The price of
,Apy commodity could only be ascertained by some re-
ference'tb another commodity or substance generally
...... . in
acquiei&d by mankind ; and whatever commo-
dity it wag to which this reference was made, that
I consequently became money. By this reference any
commodity might. beeping ,money and sold, and from
their intrinsic qualities, bad become the general stan-
dard by such reference thrOtighouCthe civilized world.
But in this point he could not altogether agree with
~..
-niFinan (Mr. H, r) that -gold and
-mom -- ' of

proportion - _ g 01,.. _ Arr..
of silver was only at tlie rate of 1 ounce of gold for
15 I.sth ounces of silver, while on the Continent 1
ounce of gold could be obtained for 141. ounces of
silver. This shewed that there could not exist in any
country two currencies of different values, as that at
the highest value only would remain, and that at dui
lowest value immediately disappear. But the Report
went still ...tither, and evinced, that even if there was
but one kind of coin in a country, if any part o} it was
debased, the pure part could not remain in the coun-
try. This was clear by what happened in King
time, and the recoinage of silver at that period.
The Mint kept coininf and as fast as they issued

Comna,t- 'nee hid been led to inter the converse, and to

with the Continent, which rendered our sill

ton sc dif•

the Hon. Geni

iorner
the

their crol

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were, melted down

assert that the .bnfavounsble sate of the exchanges
was the resuk of such a F,preciation.' He had been
a Member of the Committ in tsos, on the state of
Irish.cprrency. When beloved hst a ;flea was

ferent from what it WAS op former occasions, that the
same effects could not follow. While the Continent
was open, he'admitted that there was a continual ten-
dency in things to correct themselves; that the exports

silver were made money by . common consent
mankind ; on the contrary, as he had said before, b
was from their intrinsic qualities, and they were mo•
ney whether coined or uncoined. From. these pre•

guiL
universally current in that country for more than the
paper which professed, td represent it, he then' cer-
tainly thought thrit the piper was depreciated. But
this was not attributable to the excess of the Bask
paper. .It was owing to the want of confidence oc-
casioned, by the remains of former turbulence, and to
the qUantity of piper circulating of different kinds:
A great increase of currency would not produce an
immediate rise of prices. The increase would be nei-
ther very sudden, very uniform, nor very generA.l.
Oi late years, great experiments and wonderful Chan.
ges had been made in the cuirency of the continental
powers. At one period, 'France was overloaded with
a paper currency ; a currency of gold had since been
restored to her. Now, according to the ptincipks
maintained in the Bullion Report, the prices of all ar-
ticles in France ought to have been augmented during
the-superabundance of paper cutrency, and to have
been diminished on the return of metallic currency :
but this was by no means the fact. The prices of
Most articles continued as high after the return of
the metallic •currency as before some articles, un-
mesti— became chez; - but they were articles

and importsiituld bring things ;bout to their regular I
' channel • and that the e4hange could not fall below
a cectaindegree,because the profit on importing would
gradually tend tosraise it. But these circumstances
were now altered. And here it might be observed,
that nothing formerly was like the present importa-
tion of coin. He had finally proposed, that the situ-
ation of the country was sufficient, without any alto.
ration in.our currency, to affect the rate of exchange.
Under the present circumstances, could we foresee
what events mt!it !lappet' ilutior„ the three years to
come ? (Hear, from Ministerial Pet/bikes., Would our
military operations be finally triumphant ? , Would
dpr trade Sourish ? WOuld our internal state be.cloe
dime 1 Would we be in a state of greater prosperity
than that in which we were at present ?
Those Resolutions We. have already given in a
former Paper, to which we refer.]
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that nom ithstanding the
speech 'o' the Hon. Gentleman who opened this
debate (Mr. Hamer), he_could not bring himself to
give a silent vote on the-occasion, and the more so
Ifrom the manner in which he had ' upon

miscs it was deduceable, that as measured, by other
articles, their scarcity or abundance must increase or
decrease their quality. The « price," a wosti they
must often use, the pike of any articie.was nothing
mere than the value of every other commodity
measured with a reference to gild—as a commo.
dity. As for geld, its value could be measured by
no other commodity but by the other precious metal
--silver. When scarce, these metals were styled
dear ;—and when plentiful—cheap ; because other
commodities were with reference to them higher
or lower, but with regard to one another they ever
maintained the same proportion and value. It fol•
lowed obviously from this, that nothing could be
more absurd than to ascertain the standard by the
numerical quantity in circulation. If gold was scarce,
a lesser quantity would suffice for the same purposes,
and without inconvenience or differeliceto the public.
For instance, suppose ten millions of coin, and that
one day called for the circulation of one million of it
—if that ten millions were reduced by scarcity to five
millions, the circulation required fur one day would
still bcone-tenth, or only half a million, as the price
of with

q :ionably, _per, -
uf
luzury, for which the demand was diminished'by
the destruction of the Nubility and higher orders.
There was another instance to the same effect in the,
kingdom of Prussia, which, previous to its latemis-
fortunes, was full of metallic currency. He believed
that at the period to which he alluded, there was not
any paper, or if any, but little in that country. Since
the conquest of Prussia, ho*ever, she had been drain-
edof coin, and a paper currency had of necessity
been substittite& Had the prices of the necessaries
if life fallen in consequence No ;on the contrary,
•
, .
.
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