Star.
London, England, 1817-07-03 00:00:00

I

111, ... taci:e disaff Ltitin, diem were no &tans m 5 ef.
1 ' ;: fcr both ate by agreeing to the i resent minion.
:".L.‘ cad CASTLEREAGH said • he should make
:-.ly a few observations. for it would he an sbusocif
~-, attention of the Hou.‘ if he were to attempt
into the quettion, lot the way in which it had
.„„ia argued involved rather a new discussion upon
.r.^.11 ASl:ell%iOn• of the Habeas Corpus Act, than an
tomination of the particular topic before them. He
apprehended the Honourable Member who bronght
worard the motion had no ground for requiring a
Committee that might not be equally found in every
use that could be imagined. and it they acceded to
eg present motion, they might, with equal propriety,
;,,:dertake an inquiry into all the prisons of the coun-
try. If they consented to inquire then, what secu-
::y was there that some new case would not be
,insight forward tomorrow, and so on withost any
Loit? Iu point of tact, however, there was not oue
,a the gtievances mentioned in the petition, which,
upa application to the proper authority, had not
:ecri relieved. He readily admitted, that the treat.
r...ct and condition of prisoners were always matters
f.i wriout importance, but he did not think they ought
0 occupy the exclusive attention of Parliament, es.
waally as the practice of bringing them forward
ono. nad lately become so systematic. They would
ta:e nothing to do but to hold Committees, to hear
wes en one side or another. and in which. after all,
eel would find only the most contradictory state-
r:ants. He presumed the Honourable Member would
oct persevere in his motion, after what had fallen
from his Right Honourable Friend. from which it
Appeared that orders had been given to remedy every
oenplaint mentioned in the petition.
Lord COCHRANE supported the motion. and
%endered the Noble Lord should think it unworthy
''llt attention of that House to inquire into any mat-
;.rs connected with the rights and liberties of the sub-
i:et, when vluring the greater part of the Session they
aid been employed in destroying those lioerties—
'lda-, order!) He repeated it ; they had destroyed the
1.1:r ties of Englist i men— ( Cries of Order, and chair !)
The SPEAKER said, he apprehended the House
'laid agree with I , that if any thing could be dis-
eo:erly, it was, to state that the labours of that House
had been expended in destroying the liberties of the
people—(Clear, hear, hear.)
Lord COCHRANE resumed, and said, that his
termer habits Of life perhaps had led him to use plain
erpresaions, and not to be so select in his choice of
versls, as to keep them beyond a lawyer's quibble.
lit should rather' then have said, that the House had
been employed in:us/readies the liberties of the people,
whether for perpetuity or not it was out of his poser
in kilo*. The Noble Lord very pointedly ridiculed
'he whole system of the Spenceans, which he claim.'
i.erized as ridiculous, absurd, chimerical, and con-'
tmptible ; and expressed his astonishment that the
whole liberties of the people of England were to be
suspended to keep down such fanatics as these, who
were just u competent to upset the Constitution as
."ohatina Sauthcote was the established Religion of
the country—(4 latish, and hear, hear). The Noble
Lord concluded by voting for the Committee, and
condemning the species of evidence on which the
people's liberties were put in jeopardy by hired spies
aid inlormers..
General HOPE said, there were many things int!),
Petition which were untrue. Among others, the Piti-
tamers complained that they were shut in ig gloomy
dungeon'," and that they were "cut off from the
cheering rays of the sun." Now that was wholly
false. There were two windows in the prisoner's
room, one looking to the west, and the other to
the south, and the apartment appeared as light as
1::at House. With respect to the arcade, in which
oley were permitted to take exercise, it was fifty
Itet lOng, six tees tour inches wide, and ten feet high.
It waserue, it, ran between two rows of cells, but
ti:ere were windows above the cells always open, and
raced doors to the cells themselves, which allowed
free. passage to the air ; and though the windows
v.-ere some vhat high, yet he understood the Petitioner
''as in the habit of amusing himself by standing on
a 'tool, and looking through his telescope at the Sur.
rey.hills. He was assured also that they were not
denied the use of books, pens, and ink. Upon the
.hole, he could not conceive any confinement less
cbjectionable in its circumstances than that of the
Petitioners.

Mr. BARHAM, in reply, expressed his astonish
r_ent- that an Honourable Member (Mr. S. Wortley)
inould assert that the case stated in the Petition was
1.;:t supported. He contended, that almost every
i•oiat mentioned in it—the putting those men in irons,
the depriving them of fire and candle, the taking
f:am Mr. Evans his flute—were clearly made out.
Ater dwelling on •the other parts of the Petition,
bi•ich conceived unrefined, he expressed himself
reply not to press the question to a division, relying
the pledge of the Noble Lord and Ries:Honour-
able Gentleman, that every humane and liberal in-
dulgence should be given to the prisoners.
The motion for referring the Petition to a Com.
mime wasting negatived without a division.
MISCELLANIES.
The Rouse went into a Committee on the English'
Election Laws Amendment Bill. In the Committee,
the blanks were-filled up, and several verbal Amend.
meats were made.
• The House then resumed, and the Report was or-
tiered to be received to.worrow.
The Report of the East India Navigation Laws!
Till was taken into -farther consideration. Lord
BINNING proposed two additional clauses, which
vete agreed to.
The House then resumed—the Report was received,
raid the Bill ordered to be read the third time to-
Linrrow.
The Frame-breaking Prevention Bill was read a
second time.—To be committed to-morrow.
Sir J. C. HIPPISLEY brought in a Bill to pre-
vent the pay Went of labourers in goods, and to pro.-
via:
for their roper payment.—Read a first, Wiwi
read a second rime tomorrow,
The Irish Grand Jury Presentments Bill . went
through a Committee. The Report was received, and
the Bill ordered to be read the third time on Friday.
The Cottages Exemption Bill was read a second
titre.—To be committed to-morrow.
The Navy Prize-money Bill was read a second
time.—To be committed tomorrow.
On the motion of the ATTORNEY-GENERAL,
tht: House went into a Committee (proforma) on the
Lstents in Aid Bill. The Bill having gone through

the Committee. the Rep n 40:s rezelved, ana r7dered
to be taken into further comidera:itr.teinorrow.

The Irish Fair Tolls Regulation Bill was read a se-
cond time. To be committed to•morrow.
Tie other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the
House adjourned at half past eleven.
The following are the Financial Resolutions in-
tended in be moved by Mr. C. GRANT, in opposition
to those of Mr. T:EItS?.Y, the discussion of which
stanls postponed till to-morrow night:
1. That the Total Amount of the Funded Debt,
of the United Kingdom, unredeemed. was, on the
let itbruary 1816, • - C 810,046,036
And on the Ist February, 1817, 790,050,980
Being a diminution of - • - • X 12,995,056
1.. That the Total Amount of the Unfunded
Debt, in Exchequer and Ir:sh Treasury Bits, was,
on the sth January, 1816,
In Exchequer Bills, • aC4t,441,e00
In Irish 1 reasury BIII•, • - 4,497,808.—X43,939,708
And on sth January, 1817
Exchequer Bills -
Treasury Bills - •
Being an increase of . - -
S. That ,he Sum fa be expended by the Corn.
niissioners for the Itedempti 'nor the Funded Debt
of Great iiri aln and Ireland, in the year Ist',
may be erten:deal at 5?14,454,143
And that providon has been made for paying off
Navy and Transport Debt, within the tame i;eitud,
to the Amount of .C1,C60,000
.01 6,1.14,443

- X 14,650,900

5,304,99`...-‘411,015,2M:
£6,t)1.;,584

4. That the Amount of Exchequer 11,11 s. Out-
standing, on the la hit. tit 17, WAS JE 4 4,610,31 0
And tit Irish Trea.ttry Bills, 5,304,932—.£49,955,C92
That the Amount of Esche...;:er Bills and of
Irish Treasury Bids, granted in sate pr sent or fur-
mer deaden, which will he outstanding on the sth
January, I S I to, should tee whole of the Supplies of
the current year be then issued, will hc
lu Exchequer Bills, - iEdO,OOO,OOO
In Irish Creatury Bills, - 4,6b4 992—C64,634,992
Increase of Cant:i.e.' Debt unprovided tor (ex-
chiclre of any Excess of Charge upon t'te Consoli-
dated Fund of the United Kingdom, beyond the la-
conic thereof) of - - - -
Being less by the Sum of 2t,29 1,743, than the
Sum of X 16,1114,410, wh ch, as before stated, will
be applied In the course of the year to the Relit...
bon of Funded and Uniun.led Debt, viz.:
Sum to applied to the Reduction of Debt,
Increase of Unfunded Debt

£14,729,700

4.'16,124,443
. X 14,729,700
XI,J9-1,743

THE EVENING STAR.

I,UNOi ►N.

THURSDAY, JULY 3, 1817.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT TWEI.VF. ('CLOCK s
Reduced 76i I—Consols shut—Consols for Opg. 77 a
4 per Cent 94—Navy, shut—Bank Long Anns. 1911
India Bonds 100 103 pre.—Euh. Bulb 6s. 9s. pr.
Stocks e minus to advance. ,From the opening yesterday to
the commencement of business this morning, Consols rose II per

Cent. and the demand for Stock continues. 'The 'Addeo& coin
meme paying to the Banken on Saturday and Monday nee,.
and to the Pubic on l'uesday. Consols this morning opened at
76. and at twelve o'clock were at 771:—The Monied Interests
are still confident that Consols will be $0 before the rising of
Parliament, which, it is now stated, will be on the 16th instant.

Our Readers must be generally aware that tor
some time it has heen a question of serious ►nqui►y
whether the Usuty Laws, as they are called, whits►

limit and regulate the rate of interest on motley,
should not be repealed ? Our own opinion has long
been that money, like every other commercial com-
modity, should be leVt to find its own level, and the
price for its use be left to the discretion of the parties.
without any restraint whatever and we are confi-
dent that were this system once adopted it would
soon, by its effects, enable Ministers to reduce the in-
terest on the National Debt. Unless something be
done; and at no very remote period, to reduce either
the interest or the principal of the debt, it will be ins- ii
possible to restore health and vigour to the Body Po-
litic, and those who reason otherwise, however high
their pretensions may he, are mere political quacks.
We have said that either the debt or the interest of
the debt must be reduced ; and vie make the assertion
because without this our retrenchments on other
branches of expenditure must be such as to enable I
our income to meet all the annual demands : but
this we hold to be impossible, for all our other ex-
penses are but a drop in the bucket—no economy in
other branches, can reduce our expenditure to our
income—nor can all the power of Parliament (om-
nipotent as they chose to call themselves) increase the
Revenue to meet the present expenditure.
This subject is brought to our notice at this time
by a well digested and luminous Report by a Com-
mittee of the Chamber of Commerce of Glasgow,
appointed to consider the propriety of petitioning
Parliament for the Abolition of those Laws which
regulate or restrain the rate of Interest on Money.—
The reasoning in this Report is of general application,
for the wealth of the State will ever be found propor-
tioned to that of the different classes forming the
aggregate community—whatever tends to remove or
lessen the evils entailed on any class, by its removal
confers a benefit upon all. and consequently any re-I
duction that may, by any means, be effected in the
interest of money generally. must ultimately operate
to reduce the interest on the debt of the nation.—The
following is the reasoning in the Report to which we
have alluded, and we hold it to be unanswerable :
" That the interest of money is the fair profit of stock, and a
kgititnate compensation due by the borrower to the lender, for
the advantage derived from the me of the principal.
" That our laws which in ancient times prakibked the enjoy-
ment of this derivative revenue, originated in superstition, igno-
rer ce and poverty; and that the regulations of more recent
periods which restrained its extent were founded in opposition to
the principles of political econoiny.
,A 1 Pat the rate of interest, like the price of every other coin.
moditT, ought to be left to its own level, and to depend on the
state of the money market, with respect to saltily and demand,
as the simple but Infallible test of value
14 That the prejuuices whack existed against the uncontrolled'
exercise of pecuniary contracts are now, in a great measure, dis-
pelled; and that the public opinion generally has anticipated the
sanction of the Legislature, for the same freedom that prevails
in every other species of commercial transaction
That the arguments which have been adduced for the con-
tinuance of the Laws ageing Usury are equally unsupported by
reason, and unfounded to fact They do not prevent prodigality,
iscause there can be no restriction to the mortgage of property
or to the purchase of goods, which may be sacrificed to obtain
the Object. lkg do not protect simplicity, becalm the ourreut