Star.
London, England, 1820-10-20 00:00:00

rise witness ANTONIO Mzosa was row recalled to the bar, and
ea:donned by Ills: Wiliam's.

You stated yesterday, that you went with Prigia (row Vela*
to Milan?--1 did.•
•Did you return witla Zangla to Venice?—Yes. -
How many days were you at Milan ?—TwO days.
What is the distance from Milan to Venice?—One hundred
.and eighty-five miles.
Did you pay your own expenses, or did any one pay the for.
you?-1 did not pay even one hundredth part of a livre; Zangla
paid the whole.
Had yob any holiness uf your own at Milan ?—No.
Had Zangla any as a SL.ge Manager or otherwise? :Nona
jh went oily fur this object.
•
What do ydu mean by Lips object?
The ATTOUNLY-Gsrantsr, objected to the question.
Mr. BROUGHAM said that they only wanted to know; what
the witness meant by certain words he had used. Ile had ne-
ver before heard such an explanation objected N.
The LORD CIJANCELLOiI said, that perhaps the ques-
tion could be 'put in a shape which woold leave no room for ob-
jection.
:11r. Wu.t.t.aus said, he would endeavour to do so.
To tiAc witness.--r Did you see Zangla do anything else than
go to the Porto Orientale and the Rue Gabilo?—lie went also
to look after a person of the name of lmberti, a sort of second
Manager of the Theatre.
You told Its, yesterday, you saw Zangla come down stairs
from Colonel tirown with a unnitser of Napoloans in his hand ?
—Yes, I di&
AT that time, did he'make,ycit any offer? .
• • The AvroaNii.Gaztritai. sobjettCd to the question ; it was to
. .

---:

. . r
. • - . •
I the very same purpose as that which their Lordships had just The Someiroi-Geozam. wished us know upon what grounds
1- decided should not' be jut. .
as not of Tiltheerli,ooußseDthCar
tAheNCTEieLstLioonß.m—arltbeapppueta,rstotoairbeectthtehoeptitesionti.
- . the questtott was to be put.
Mr. Wn.u.kais.—lt is a question as to a fact. •.- . -
The Soetcrrow•Getizaete—Aud we object to chit fade s
relevant. _ ..
many of Sacehi, (hear, hear.)
The LORI) CHANCELLOR.,--I must confess it &soap- Lord LAUDERDALE said, it was most necessary to know
peer to ineter be-the same question as time last rejected.-•a _,.-.•' distinctly the grounds.
. Mr. BaouGnAm.--Ani I thep to understand that the decision The LORD CHANCELLOR said, his opiriion was, that the •
of your Lordships is to apply to all other evidence that we may agency hod not been proved, and the the declarations of dm wit-
have ready to adduce of similar offers having been made to ness could not be heard without at the same time deo:neat-ft g
suborn and bribe. • o . to call Saccht hanself..
The LORD .CHAIsICEL4OIL—Mr. Brost h it would, Lord ERSKINE said, that if he could prove that a witntss
be Infinitely too daring fot the .House tblive rto yithr endeavoured to corrupt others, it was not his declarations he
question. The House can only decide (initial q 6 &tit arisen'. was about to prove, but his acts.
Mr. Baoupnew.-We can tender no.other ki f evidence Lord GRENVILiA said, that as the question of the agency
that can bring the ;gee .of' conspiracy • nearer. to the 'Milan of Sacchi had been disposed of, it might be desirable to ask the
Commission than that-which your • Lordships are pleased to Comsel on both sides if there were any other grounds on whiele
reject. We have not . Itastelli to 11 rodece, we have not lie- they wished to argue the question ?
ganti to produce; we have no means of comnelling'thcir appear- , Counsel were don celled in.. • •
ante. AU that we can do we are ready emalei but yone-Lord- The Arsoesser-Gennatte objected to the admission of evi.
ships seem to say, that all weeecanduris of no.aveil. I tinder- dente which was brought forward to impeach the testimony of
stand your Lordships to be of opinion, that the ceiling- on Sacchi, in the way it was now attempted toile. done. They •
Colonel Brown, the bringing out of money from him, and might impeesh his evidence either by oroving that it weecontra-
shewing that money, as a bribe 'received to bear evidence dictofy, or by producing witnkses Who would declare thefts. •
against her 11fejestee are circumstances not sufficieet to was not to be believed on•his oath. •
connect thslifidbery with ffte- agents of the7Milan Commission: MY. Reece folldwed on the samsside, and quoted. Philips on
If so, I can only say that you cut thus the clue of our the Law of Evidence in support of his argument. The Cour.sel
easel .we can, situated ao.we are, Itattelli heingwidadrawn from on the other side had proposed to crientnete the witness Sleshi, .
us, and Reganti beyond our reach, produce no stronger Lei- without having previously askedlim any question respecting
dance thanwee have tendered, and your Lordships have rejected. that transaction which is to be grade the foundation of a criminal
If such is the decition your Lordships have. come to, thep we charge : and when he had no means of knowing it, or defend-
not carry faither the line of evidence on.which we had ing himself against it.
' Mr. Baouottest admitted the general propositions of la* as
The LORD CHANCELLOR.—AII I can say, without laid down by the opposite Counsel, and that Its a general rele he
i taking the sense of the House on the subject is, that the question could not atteemt to criminate a witness, on facts on which he
of calling other witnesses must he left entirely to your own de's- had neglected tocross-examint him; and further that he could not
cretion, and lam sure it cannot be left to any better discretion. invalidate his testimony by his. conduct out of this cause. But
Mr. Banucitest.—Then we have no further questions to put it was on the conduct of Sacchi in this parrkular cause that he
to the witness Meoni. e . • wished to call evidence. But here Sacchi had notice of the
The ArroexeyaGewsemt, declined any cross-examination. charges against bins. He came.to their Lordiaips'- Bee as a'wit-
By 'Lord LAUDERDALE—When you save' the Napoleons nest, and all his corrupt acts in this business inust be known to
in the hand of Zangla, were they loose; in bags, or in paper?— him. This took the partieular case out of tbo general rule, 'And
, He bad a handful, and e. large hand he has !—(A laugh). ha would asst, who would believe. a man who; had, in the sense
ar
, Have you any concern with the Theatre at Pesol—N6 cause, prettied himself a suborner of perjury?..
Other than that I wrote to her Royal Highness informing— Mr. Demote followed on the *same Sida. It Was one 'of the
i Mr. BanuanAlt here interposed; the witness was going to peculiar circumstances of this case, that, in total ignorance of
speak to the contents of
.a written documeat ; this could not be the list of witnesses to be brought against* her..eiejestwe her
permitted. Counsel coeld neither know. the facts deetoed to, nor the dia.;
Lord LAUDERDALEthought that the whole answer should ratter of the individuals, until perhaps it might be elicited by
Ise heard. cross-examination. Hare was a witness, vthe knew much of
1 • Mr. Bsouestex said that he had interposed exactly at that Sacchi's conduct, and if what he stated Watt net true, tbeh let
point whickformcd the confutes between evidence that was ad- Sacehi come, if he dare,
.and contradict him. The Learns(
miesibk, and evidence that was not. The witness had written, Coensei concluded by submitting to their Lordships, that. there .
informing her Royal -Highness. • What he had informed her in was no sound distinction between this question and some that
writing, could not be proved by parole testimony. had already been admitted by their Lordships.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the interposition Mr. Parsec rejoined, and argued the case on Its legal merits.
...
of the Learned Counsel was quite proper. The LORD CHANCELI,OR said it was extremely difficult
'. Lord LAUDERDALE—WeII, but the answer of the wit- for him to be called on, day after day, to state what was the Trace
new was no answer to my question. tice in the Courts below, when he bad been so long separated
The question was oepeated—Had you any concern with the froin those Courts. He therefore wished, as in former cases,
Theatre at Pesaro ?,--'elever. to consult the opinion of the Judges on- the subject, -and he
E .By aeord DARNLEY.-- Do you know whether Zangla was proposed that the following question should he 'put to them—.
ieveKin the service of the Princess?—l do net. " Whether,in the adnainiStretion of justice in the Courts below .
: ,Roauatoo fieovenotte was now celled in, and er,naincd by when a witness for the prosecution had been examined in chi: f,
- Mr. Dzsetem. and had not been cross-examined as to any deelarettons he had
made relating to his procuring witnesses for the procreation,
lam from Treviso. lam Profeesor of Literature, Teacher whether the Counsel for the defence could bring evidence to
of- the Italiatiend Latin languages., sad I.reside at Lausanne, irt
prove such declaration, without first caning on the winless to ,
Switzerland. In liill 8 I was at Lausanne, and saw Sacchi. He
know if he had ever made such &aeration ?"
-held a conversation with me an the subject of.the process_agaiust
Earl GREY did not think the law case; cited bore on the
her Royal Highness. , present question. liis view of it was this, 'that a avaness was
Did he make any application to you pnehisubject? chaged with offering a bribe to a person to procure witnesses,
The Astemmor-Geireeer. objected to this question, upon the and- to support, by false and sub tired evidence, that cease in
groend, that the declaration of- Sacchi, given by another person,
which he had himself given evidence. Ile thought there was •
*pis not admistible under ouch eirounistanceseSaechi not having
strong ground for admitting the evidence, especially as there
bias proved to be an agent. could be Ito doubt of the agency of Sacehi. • f •
r• % Mr. Dundee said, his object in asking the question was tp The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought there was a very easy way
peeve that Sacchi bad assured the witness that his fortune would of getting ;Id of all the difficulty, without putting the question
be made if liegree evidence against the Queen, and of course to to the Judges, or losing the time of their Lordships. There was
shew that the evidence of Saccbi against. her Royal II
• igkne" one way in which the question might be rendered admissible,
was inadmissible. The agency. of Sacchi had been established
and that was, by calling up Sacehi, and re-examining him.
by. tit evidence of De Mont and another witness. lie could
This, he thought, Was a mode of proceeding. to which there
prove that, at LausanneeSacchi performed acts under the Com-'
could be no objection, and therefore he submitted to their. Lord-
mission.—Plr. Denman here read a great part of the evidence
ships that Sacchi should be calked to the Bar.
of Re Mont and of Saccbi, to prove the employment of Sacehi .
The Marquis of LANSDOWN said,. he did rise to object
as an agent.] to the proposition of the Noble Lord,• but he did not Dow Actin'
Mr. Peace said, the nature of the evidence just quoted was
it necessary, since it was the corrupt acts, and not thk declare.'
not such as was calculated to establish the agency of Sacchi. The tions of Sacchi, that were now the object of investigatien. •
only evidence to prove the agency was, that Sacchi had brought Tie LORD CHANCELLOR enquired of the Counsel oq
a witness from Lausanne, and that he had gone to Chagnirz, but both sides if the hadobjection to Sacchi being recalled to
.y • any
for what specific.purpose did not appear. No proof had been
the bar? ..
given that he had been employed by the Commission to collect . Mr. Baoronex.—My Lordathe last time we called fir a wits
evidence generally. •
nets he eves not to be found. _
Mr. Mtn ch. said, their Lordships would be guilty of the -. The LORD CHANCELLOR.But if he is to bi•found,
worst of blindness, if they would now refuse to open their
have you any objection to his being called, and when .do Tole
eyes to a conspiracy established for such base purposes.— wish it ? . . • . t t
'n Now, now, My Lord," from both '•%lr. Baonanolin and
When the Milan Commission was talked of, it was not spoken ,
of as an abstract question, but as a subject upon which three Mr. se y% -
_-
nsmex. • • ' - •
way no doubt. If Sacchi had been found employed by the Lord ERSKINE addressed their Lordships, but in 64 lows
Commission, at Latuanne and at Chamim, in the way he
tone of voice, that he was inaudible. We understood him to
was ready to prove, it was clear that he was the agent of the,
suggest addition to the uestion to e proposed to; he .judges,
in as great a degree, or indeed in a greater degree, an
relative to the admitted agency of Sachchi. •
than Reganti had been concerned. If then, Sacehi was known
The Factor LAUDERDALE denied that accordingto the
to be an authorised agent going about. and abusing the autho- strict rule of law, the agency of Sacchi to the Milan 'Centrals-
rity under which he was acting, could their Lordships refuse
sign bad
to bear evidence in proof of such vile employment'? If it teas
Earl q REY thought, that although the agency pro4edmight
lawful to inquire into the acts of the Milan Commission, it
not be *such as the evict rules of taw required, apt that such a
was surely competent to their Lordships to enquire into the
,e_ degree of agency had been shown, as, in the particeilit &cum-
conduet of the agents of that Commission,Commission,i_n ion, gathering the e..-
denceagainst her Royal Highness ? stances of this case, made it a duty in the House to allow the.
.
The LORD CHANCELLOR asked whether the whole of proposed question to be put.
the evidence in proof of the agency of Sacchi was to be found in Lord ERSKINE said, that the question proposed' to be
put to' the Judges by the Noble and Learned Lord qn the
the part of the minutes alluded to. His object in asking was
Wee:area, did not Meet.- his view nf the - case. He es Lind
evith the view of considering that evidence, not only as to the
Erskine) would ,repose another, to the following ekeet—
agency, but as to the affect which the examination upon the sub- "If in any trial a witness is celled on the part-of the plaintiff,
pot would bear upon the credibility of Sacchi as a witness.
andeives evidence against the defendant, and if, after the cross-
Mr. Denmear pointed out other -parts of the Minutes as con-
examinatiolf, it is discovered that the witness so examined his
twining evidence to affect both parts of the proposition. .
endeavoured to corrupt persons to girt; evidence against the de
. Mr. Pears skid, that the question could-not be put without
fondant, whether Counsel for the defendant may not be allowed
giving an opportunity to Sacchi to conttedict it,
in fact' it was to adduce oviance of such .corrupt acts?"
in every respect inadmissible. The sari of CARNARVON said that the House had deter- ,
The LORD CHANCELLOR read the evidence pointed'
mined 'that they cod anti ought to go on witb the inquiii
out to him in proof of the agency of Sacehi, and he repeated
info the allegstiow grub
conspiraey; and evatydelayunnecessarily
their Lordships' former decision, that new evidence could not
interposed in that inquiry, hecould not but regard its act of
be called to prejudice the testimony of a witness, by circumstances
injustice. Whether some of their Lorehips- inigiteeotonaate
on which that witness had not been cross-examined. Upon this
Seechi as an agent, or where that he wan only a witness,
ground Majocchi bid been called, and upon the same authority
it was impossible for any of them to exclude from their •
this examination would goforward, the witness Sacchi being en consideration whether this man had not himself been active
tided tothe privilege of examinaticea to contradict the declare-
in suborning witnesses to give 'evidence against the Queen.
tions of theperson whose testimony was to affect him. These ob- They could not do justice if they excluddd this fact from their
sereations were directed to the consideration of Sacebiai an evi-
hence. With es pect to the question of the agency of Sacchi, it view ; they could nut more directly promote the ends of
justice, thap by entering upon the inquiry how that fact really
would be for the to determine, whether be was a mere
. stood. It waa of no its to refer to the Judget for their opt-
nien ; since it was allowed do all hands, that in the mid, the House
messenger of the Milan Commission, or employed as an agent.
by them ? • were not bound to abide by that opinion. In his judgment,
Lord ERSKINE said, that with 'respect to the questionof
the question proposed was consistent- with every object of sub-
the credibility of Sacchi as a witness, if, in his time; a meta had
scandal justice, and he would therefore move at once, that in-
been offered of the attempt of a person to corrupt wituesses, lie
I stead cf referring the questions proposed to the "Learned .Tudge
should at once proceed to the proof, and calculate open thel
event of the investigation as of the most decisive kind. 1 —" the question proposed by the Counsel- far her Mak:s s,
ty,
„, TA: . A should- be now put. .1 , .
Lord GREY sail, that such a connelion had beeo c." 4-4" e"
..Lord it EDISSDALE supported the reference to the Judges.
The LORD CHAN,CELL.aiIt then put the motion of Earl
between the hidan-Conunission,and Secclal, that it heteane in-
dispensably pecessary to prove the nature of his envier-et-et ; .
I. C anarvon to the vote.e--.Thb Non-Couteets had it.
and if a person meld be proved to have attempted to corluet
the Heine then decided, that the two questions proposed by
others to swear falsely, what doubt eould tie oelhlatlaioad of his
willingness the Loart.Cieeiciu.os and Lord Femme should be refuerese so
to swear Wooly bitusell? Tao proof of a corrupt jud LORD
agency upon the part or a
that witness. witness, destropl the credibility 6f `"`
• , • i . The CHANCELLOR handed the questiarea '4l
.. . ... .
Mid not been proved:
Wog to Lord'Chlef YusOce Abbott. f
,
Tke Red of LlVERPOOL'argatekthat the agency of- Sacchi . 7
After the jedgestad conferred for afew minutes together,
bi. rt.' .. -- . .
The 'LORD CHANCELLOR informed the House that
1 Earl GREY,—Could et:le:one doubt the nature of he's mission .
to Cataniitz ~. the Judges wished to -withdraw to deliberate on the questions
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, it was the general opi-
prolate to them, and as the usual bout ofedjournuient was
atop of theeHonee that the examieation..almeld be mauled, cod i In_ .''euarat fld k rand,th° would now nuive thet the house do adjoin:.
that 54111 i might be called to rebut the evolcare.
A "l: 'ura eordinaly, at flalf-past Thircio'Clocke- •

-

MEETING OF THE PARISH OF ST.GEORGE,
HA NOIE.R-SQUARE.

more Addresses presented to her from the 'people of 11
England. What was that but saying.that he would
vote to find the Qteeen guilty if her caul should be
ever brought before him He He hoped that the poor&
throulshout the country would call, on all occasions,
on their Representatives to attend Public Meetings,
it was a duty they owed to their Constituents to at-
tend to support them 0 in the right, or if wrong to
point out their error—(Cheers). Mr. Moore read a
series of Resolutions which were
An Address to her Majesty, founded on those Re-
solaions, was read by Mr. Tuonsnsw., and adopted.
A Vote of Thanks to the Chairman was agreed to.
Mr. HONHOUSE returned thanks, and the' leeting
was dissolved.

The Churchwarden; of this Parish having refused
to call a Meeting for the purpose of considering an
Address to tier Majesty the Questa, a very numerous
assemblage of its Inhabitants took place yesterday,
in one of the yards of Little Brook-street. A sort
of outbuilding was engaged for its reception, hub
the overflowing crowd filled all the enclosed way
beyond it. At one o'clock Mr. Hoanooss entered
the romo, and was called to the Chair.
Mr. RonnousE thee rose, and .obserred that he
had attended conformably to a requisition addressed
to him, and signed by several most respectable inha-
bitant householders of that parish. It always gave
him pleasure to obey the call of his constituents on.
any question of public importance, or that involved
in any way the rights and privileges which were
common to them all. He regretted that some of
their fellow-parishioners, some of the higher orders
as they were called, or of the privileged classes as
they called themselves, should have withheld their
assistance from this Meeting—should have discoun-
tenanced and endeavoured to prevent it. Their efforts,
however, were vain; and those who were now pre-
sent were resolved to shew that they fully partici-
pated in that feeling which animated the country
from one extremity to the other. The business con-
cerning which they were now assembled to deliberate
had lately taken a new shape ; it was not now so —..
a Trial of so important a nature, andinvolving
much the trial of the Queen that was going _on as, If
the trial of her prosecutors. This was not indeed a -so many possible contingencies, could be supposed
first, second, or third prosecution which her Majesty capable of furnishing, in its progress, food for met-
had undergone ; it was but the continuation of a riment, the events of yesterday would excite in it
system which began twenty-five years age, and had
no common degree. It is impossible, in any
been carried on with unrelenting cruelty from the
period when her Majesty first landed on these shores. case, to conceive anything more ludicrous than the
The Commission at Milan was, however, the greatest grave surprise an accuser exhibits, when all the
effort of that cruelty, and if he was at all acquainted groands of his charge, established, as he supposes,
with the laws of his country, the appointment of it with the greatest dexterity, and fenced round with
was an illegal act, and, if so, an impeachable offence.
In times which some might consider worse, and others all the solemn jargon .of venerated precedent and
better than the present, individuals had suffered ea-
legal technology, come to be exposed to contempt,
pitally for the crime of issuing illegal Commissions. merely by a developement of the means employed ,
But no such Commission as that appointed to sit at to fabticate the lying tale. But how lamentable to
Milan ever was instituted before in the history of think of men who have character to lose, being re-
the world. If truth, and not the collection of charges,
had been its object, how was it that her Majesty's doted to the necessity of employing legal shifts, to
revert
Counsel had discovered that to be false in four weeks p any fact whatever, respecting a conspiracy—
which the Commission bad been accumulating for and that conspiracy against a quarto!—from being
years ? Spied and watched as she had been ; be- probed to the bottom? We NM QM offer any re-
trayed, or rather calumniated, by menials whom she marks of our own on the proceedings of yesterday,
had discarded from her service ; how was it that,
when the depositions of these people were laid before but shall here lay before our Readers some observer
the Commissioners, they did not think proper to call tions which appeared in a Morning Paper of this day,
Dr. Holland, a domestic physician, or M. Sicard, who .and which are well worthy of attention:
must have had the means of stating whether these Gs smell progress was nude yesterday hi „ambling „ideate
depositions bore any resemblance to truth? But they respecting the conspiracy. Nearly the whole of the day was
were pre-determined to find her guilty of irregular consumed in discussions arising out of technical objections. It
courses, and they thought the evidence of discarded was stated by Meows, that he went with Zarreca from Voila to
servants amply sufficient for that purpose. They Mme; that he accompanied him to Colonel Beown'e house,
were sent out only with an empty bag, and their and that what Zattein came down stairs he had his band fall
business was to contrive to fill it—(Loud applause). (' large band') band') of Napoleons; but when a question WU put
It signified net whether it was filled with what was whether any offer was
made by ZANGLA to him, an objection
decent and true, or with what was false and filthy, was immediately taken, and it was determined that before
provided it was of a respectable size—(Applaare). evidence as to his suborning witnesses could be received, it
Perhaps, however, if the bed-makers and grooms, was necessary to connect &near more closely with the ionspi-
and washers of foul linen, belonging to a certain
racy. Mr. BRODGRAM was ready to prove that &mato bail
Great House, were to be called on for their deport;- been employed in suborning witnesses, but though no ass can
tions, they too could fill a bag, and he apprehended
grippers that Zama felt such a warm friendship for the Milan
a larger one than that sent home from Milan, The c
mmass' lonrs as eto be himself at the expense of suborning wit-
Queen was, he believed, the only person in that quay- °
messes for them, and though there can be no doubt either as to
ter who could come out pure from such an invest;-
the source from which be was supplied with the menus of su-
gation. He trusted that this question should be n
abomrnation or as to the object for which the money was given to
sooner disposed of than the conduct of his Majesty's .. ~,' .
l --as Jur. osoconsn was unable to connect him in that near
Ministers would become the subject of inquiry. In .
his opinion their conduct included both crime and wilY with the Milan Commission which was deemed necessary,
misdemeanour ; they had hazarded the affections of he was obliged e° rail another !rime".
the people and the safety of the Throne, from no “ Here again the same objection 'MS stated. Dome= Sat,-
other motive than the desire of preserving their woes, a Professor of Italian and Latin, was proceeding to lay
places. He hoped it would not be long before he open the conduct of the famous. SACCUL This individual, it is
heard the people from all parts, and with loud proved, was employed to bring Ds Wort frOm LausanDe to
cries, demand their removal from that powei which Milan. To facilitate his agency, be bad even a credit at a
they had abused. instead of faithfully perform. Banker's at Lausanee. He was employed also at various other
ing that task, for the performance of which they Places- But !di this, it was unnteildnds was not agency.
were so amply paid, in maintaining the character of 44 Why should the case of a prosecutor be affected by the in-
the country, they had disgraced it by insulting a per- tudercuce of persons not duly authorised by him? Za"" and
son who, whether as a woman, a stranger, or their SACCIII are well known to have been employed in collecting
Queen, was entitled to respect. Ile should like to witnesses; in an ill4ndged seal for the welfare of the State of
ask the Noble Lords and the very Honourable Gen- Britain, the prosecutor in this case, they might attempt to
tlemen who were concerned in this monstrous pro. suborn witnesses; and though
from the offers made by them to
secution, how they would feel if a sister, or any re- some witnesses, it may be Referred, though it cannot be proved,
lative of theirs, had been so cruelly assailed as her that the same offers were made to other witnesses, and thank-
Majesty had been? Would they not express horror fully accepted, yet it would be very hard that this unauthorised
and detestation at such conduct ?—The Honourable interference should defeat the great object in which the State has
Gentleman, after a variety of further. remarks, and been engaged for the last half year, namely, the attempt to &-
after citing a passage from Dr. Clarke's Travels in grade and destroy the Quiets Of ENGLAND!
Russia, as an authority for an allusion he had re. ~ The State knows best how the witnesses were procured.
cently made to a pal titular custom at Moscow, con- The State knows whether ZANGLA
ng,
wi SACtnesses ; CIII, Ra
the Sserutr,tate and Ex-
cluded by declaring his perfect readiness to carry to calm, were employed in procuri knows
her Majesty's Thi one the expression of what should the sums which were paid to these Gentlemen; and the man-
appear to be the sentiments of that Assembly.—The ner in which these sums were employed State has ain-
Honourable Gentleman was much applauded during the able key to all, or most of the secrets in this business In the
do
Mr. qf his speech. correspondence between Colonel Buono and Mr. Pow= ;
Mr. Puma 'lttoite stood forward to move the but if the State were to disclose what it knows, the Qesest
Revolutions ; he was received with great applause. might then know too muck. Who ever hoard of such genero-
He congratulated the Meeting on the full attend- sity on the part of a prosecutor ! The object of every
once, and and hoped the people would always meet when tutor is to destroy his adversary by all the mesas. iunpoli his powe
as r.
the country was assailed, when the oppressor was to oit is true there are people who might be so te to
'be branded, and the innocent protected. The ques- think, that if Lord laysaroot and his Colleagnei, representing
tion now was, not whether the Queen was guilty— the State, and conducting this Prosecution in its name, are,
that question was put to rest—her innocence was as they must be, in possession of the Secret History of the
manifest to the world—liut the question was, what proceedings against her Mastene ; if they know that vast
was the extent of the guilt of Ministers? It was not sums have been expended in suborning the witnesees—that
easy to fathom the depth of their crimes, but still 7
s...ANCILA, SACCNI, and Co. have been employed as agents in'
the country would. do its duty. The conspiracy this business of subornation, and yet suffer her MAMMY'S
against her Majesty was of the most base and nefa- cause to be injured, because she may not be in possession of an
nous kind, and the Ministers were at the bottom of the iinhs in the chain connecting these individuals with the Thri.
it ; who else could have been ? none but their crea- ebb Cabinet; there are people, we my, who might, in such a
Cures; the Ministers, and they only, were answerable case, be su unpulite as to pronounce those Representatives o
ff thus
the
for it. Tne country were bound to fathom the busi- seat, more bas, and dishonourable than any of the in
gess to the bottom, and so they would. Legal con- men of whose services they availed themselves."
ning might exhaust its arts in vain. After what had
-already transpired, no man could have the effrontery SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE DEFENCE.
to say, that the Bill could ever pass into a law— HOUSE OF LORDS.
(Applause). The Honourable Gentleman, after pay- The House resumed proceediep this morning at the usual hour.
lug a warm tribute to the independent Press of the The Marquis of LA. NSDO WN, before Counsel were called
country, which he said had achieved the safety of. in, moved that ilat Order of the House, of the 21st August,
her Majesty, which was the common shield of all, 1820, respecting ties attendance of witnesses, should be read.
without which the libeities and rights of the people The Order was read by the Clerk.
would perish, concluded by observing on the speech 1 The Marquis of LANaDOWN said, that be had desired
of Mr. Courtenay in the House of Commons on that the Order should be reed; not merely with a view to the
Tuesday last. That Gentleman stated, that the tide convenience of their Lordships, but for the more important the
Was turning against her Majesty ; that; ; would bell* of public justice. The d,elay which Owl ottestd!d. the proseed),

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON.

FRIDAY, OCTOBER 20, 1 Q2O.
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THE QUEEN.

W.

logs. Of yesterday,had wholly arisen from a non.eompliatte with "stone ought to give. He thinfote erelthi tippet ES liestios,
thi Order just read, for the attendance of the witnesses from day ' and wished to take the sensed the Howe ern it.
* dee. in order =maid thenecessity of takingthe opt of the I The WAD CHANCELLOR said, the questions of fact
iodgee, the Nettle Der! sitselts (Liverpool) had loggested, asoirrate to be tried by **we, end au by a xefetestie to the
the ragged= was supported in= several puts If the Hesse, I Judges. His Lordoidp then put the speedos, that Belvedere
that the Counsel let the goo* should be asked whether 'they I be called so the Re, Ind derlsesdoe reopeeden Saceld be put
Wesid net at soft call Sacchioad thus lay a foundation for the *Wm.—The House alma, when there were;
proposed evidence of the ether Witness ? His Lordship dig ant Contalls - - s 1!
I`a er=r
at the time exactly understand what answer had been made by • . iSe
the Leaned Cooed, but be now found, as esqtdry, that with a ilsjorkty agsinst the Motion —sem:
view to the accommodation of the House, they bad consented Upon reesteleg the law, we found Mr. 801N1011.4 a
that lisochl should be called, if be was called immediately. *mug their-Lasalships. The which was, he said, appikablit
Sacchi, however, was not forthcoming, and be. (the Noble Mate to as action between A end 1, in the Ceuta below, =old not'
Os) understood was not within reach. It was unnecessary to be applicable t• a IBM ef Rains and Penaldes. Their Lord,
point oat to their Lordships that there was all the difference in ships haling delight Mow to object, in the most decisive man.-
the world between *Lambing a witness thus called upon, imma net, to the crew togitithe-hed lately pursed, for the purpose
diately, and esamining him after some delay had intervened. of roving *tentage* eta corilzaal, he had only to propose
The reasons of the difference were obvious, and h: d already the other line of deferate width kW been thought proper by
been more than once fully recognised by their Lordships.— her Majesty's Counsel to be sleeted.
In consequence of the non-compliance with their Lordships' The Marquis of LANSDOWN lhaving stated that be had a
order, die ends of public justice had been defeated. Sushi Models to submit to their landshipo, '
was not only not in attendance, but, he understood, was not in The LORD C.HANCELLOItordered Counsel to withdraw.
Landon—(tHe is io Learn," front she ifiniegeriei heelehj, The Marqtds et LANSDOWN then said, that he rose, in
He world all events, not at hand when wanted, as he ought to pursuance of a notice which be had given code House, to=wers
have been, and as their Lordships had, by their order, intended for the prediction el a terY 11.1"rtaat Put of the escsearad'
he should be. It was on these grounds, and because he felt, in ence between Colonel limes and Mr. Powell, the Agent for
common. with every one of their Lordships, the inconvenience the reseretiee Mai" She Slams' lie &said° he said, as brieli
and injustice of protracting this important proceeding unneces- se possible state the gnus& Or his Motion, in which their Lord-
sadly, that he bad felt it to be his duty to bring the infringe. ships would Ind it iseceseery, consistently with justice and the
meat of the Order of the House, under its consideration. dignity of their own cluntleter so ltallsiesee• It was, he said*
Lord LIVERPOOL said, that it was certainly of great ins- certainly in the recollecnon Id their LerdshiPs, that an under-
poreume that the witnesses should be at baud to be produced ,standine bad been entered into Kam al/ olden, that none of the
whenever called upon, and he had no objection,when the Counsel witnesses, who had heat ellemined, should be Permitted to leave
and Agents were.called in, that the order should be read to them; this country, so keg as it was thought necessary that, for the
and a stricter attention to it enjoined. Before he made the pro. purposes of justice, they should remain begs. In videden of the
position yesterday as to the calling of Sacchi, he had been is- rule laid down by their Lordships to this ants the agent for
formed that he was probably at his lodgings, and that at all the prosecution had thought proper to authorise the departure
of Rastelli, sad a passport was procured for him for that per-
evepts he was actually in town.
Lord LANSDOWN explained: pose at the Foreign Dice, without the order of GOINITIVatfIt....
The LORD CHANCELLOR said that be really under- Here the Noble Lord read that put of the evidence of Mr.
stood that her Majesty's Counsel had declined calling ceorbil-- Powell which related to the mission of Rawl% and ob.
(Ns, hodroasaasual their Lorikhips). He did not mean'to say served, that if that evidence were founded in truth, there
that the fact was so; be only stated what, on his hooouri was could be no possible objection whatever to the production of
his impression. The first intimation which he had had of the the correspoodence which related to it. Mr. Powell bad stated
fact being otherwise, was from seeing in one of those Journals, that Rastelli bad been sent ant of the country witty for the
which are in the practice of taking notice of their Lordships' , purpose of setting the families of the witnesses at ease,
were
and
proceedings (see Star of yesterday), that Mr. Brougham and Mr. of bringing over some papers to this country which
thought to be necessary to the case against her Majesty.—
called out " Now, now 1" They might have said so, but et- Now their Lordships having thought it their duty to examine
eddy be did not hear them; and be was sure there were many that agent as to the motive which induced him to permit the
et their 'Arabi,' in his part of the House who were in the sane depu lure of Rastelli ; and having ascertained, upon the oath
situation. of that agent, what those motives were, be would ask their
Laid ERDESDALE thought the non-attendance of Sacchi lordships whether those motives could best be coUected from
was a contempt of the House. the verbal instructions given to R=etold, or from de costa
Lord LAUDERDALE certainly understood that her Ma- spondence between Colonel Brown and Mr. Powell? As no
key's:Ceased had desired to examine Sacchl on the instant, "rhea hntmetiens had been given, * other caw" mast he •
bet that an exploration had taken place between them and this *dallied for the purpose of arriving at tbe coofirmetion of the
Counsel for the BBL truth of Mr. Powell's statement. Their Loaships were en-
The subject, as to the attepdance of the witnesses was here titled to the Production of that enerearndenees Particularly
dropped; and as it had pleased them to raise op me imailframy party at the
Lord Chief Justice Amer proceeded to read the opinions. of Bar, of which Mr. Powell was the ,lent- Thar were b"l4
wh he had dated to via
the Judges en the two questions subMitted to them yesterday. to ascertain front their agent, y
It was in the negative on both questions. late their own order. This was necessary, for the purpose of
The LORD CHA NCELLOR wished to know, if the Come sustaining the character of their Inedialifst who would
act for her Majesty had any objection to calling Sacciti now, as doubdess trot hesitate, Jf an one of theataalkaa Ina a Ws'
the opinion of the Judges had be= delivered. mentor as dist Bs:, and bed his case peepsioid by the Inn-
Mr. Esomisue--Yesterday, my Lord, I stated that I had no duct of his Meat in man weal as learetalte leltSeals to call
object* ee the salting of Satehi, if it could have been dune inn ulion that agent to give a satisfactory Maenad" of Ms "elver.
mediately ; the time that has elapsed since renders the We some- If the evident* of Mr. Powell warn WWI tee odd that evidence
what different. were true, what possible injury amid arise Min the prodigal=
• .1
Lord SIDMOUTH said, that as soca as 'it was known yea of the em:esPelndeis_r ..? The Male Lelesi escseblisd
and with .Maa"
terday that Sethi was likely to be called before their Lord- log, ° That Mr- rowel he called to the Bets ermaree to
ddps, amnesia was sent to his lodgings, and he was on his Wedont that pan of the correePoodelece bowels him and Colo-
way down to the House, when he was met by several Noble nel Brown, which related to the minion of Basta*, and his
Lords, who told him that the House had adjourned. dela"
Lord LIVERPOOL.
The LORD CHANCELLOR again asked if her Majesty's admitted the this woe a dilhent ease
Counsel had any objection to the calling of Sethi now. from the ease of any Individual prosecutor, or any individual
ser. peouottow did not now obo=e to eau &eche If he defendant; a case, in which no tribellai could, on any Find*
could have been brought forward yesterday, he should have' ustice call for the production et the coefidential cam%
been very glad ft have examined him. of the Agents. He would submit to the Noble
Mr. Gins= read the minute. of Salvadore's evidence of yea Marquis (Laostlown), that the Home having appointed both
terday, up to the time that It was interrupted. Counsel and Agents for the. 818, the House Must be era!
The WED CHANCELLOR said, he agreed with the opi. sidered in a united character; and that* in strict right, the ob.
noon of thp Judges, delivered this morning. judos which would apply is as ordinary cue, does not apply
Rat GREY thought the questions submitted to the Judges here. Still he wished the Ho ate to insider hew the. case
yesterday did not embrace the whole subject. The question of stood- The Haase hod taken urn itself to Want age=
the agency of Scott bad been altogether omitted. He, the to conduct the cause on the part of the Bin., but in doing so
Noble Earl, thought that it was sufficient ground for admitting "they malts of parse, be understood to have conferred 00 the
proved between Saccld and
the evidence that a connexion was agents all the reeeellable 'that," which ace usually supposed
the Milan Commission. He therefore moved, " Test the wit- to helots to the character—to has endowed them with all the
nese, Dontinico Salvadore,he called in, and the question as to confidence which was necessary to the free adage of their
then,
agency and acts of flaccid be put to him." duty. Front the moment the act of appointment kid pused,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL did not think there had been every act of these agents muss be looked upon In a con'
cient of . fidential act, and we which bad been done in the ions fide cer-
suffiLod proof of the agency
the =ge=es,Sac templation, that k would not be made public, and if this doe.
Lord ERSK I N E thought of Sacchl had been very
clearly proved : but suppose Such' was not an agent, and no trine was true, it must apply squatty to the parts as to the
way connected with the Milan Commission--suppose it was not whole a a aaratailandaliall. In Oat at princip le' therefere'
possible to Identify him with that Commission, yet their bird. he thought there wee the most decided objection to the whole
skips, sitting on a Bill of Pains and Penalties, should see bow or any part of the corremoadesee being produced. What ma
far the subornation of witnesses had been carried. The Counsel tier, then, was there !tor breaking ill apace this PriaciPki
sty would be well justified in asking their Lord_ Literally speaking, there was no mystery in the case. A wit-
ships to recfor her Majesty iv the evidense against &ilea, notwithstanding nen bad been sent opt of the country who ought not to have
e
the decision of the Judges, which no one respected more been sent out; there wee no difference of opinion as to the ini-
tial himself. Bet why this perpetual recurrence to the Propriety of the act, though there might be some difference of
kilt? No law could have brought the queen to this trial— views among their. Lordships as to the motives of it. No
The Learned and Noble Lord on the Woolsack had stated in Miami" was wanted, for an were agreed that the act
the outset of these proceedings, that the offence with which her was most imisroPer. why now areal in, for the first i
ortset,
time it
Majesty was charged was not Treason, and that there was no ever bad been done, cm a Palen* so sacred and ins
P
lew whatever to meet ,the case; and yet when her Majesty as that of protecting from &dome, the confidential commu-
nises. to her deflate, their Lordships say, she shall be piratic" of Agents, written under the belief that they
bound by the rules of lon and that in proceedings which would net be called upon to make them public? Should it,
a wide id the law. The counsel for the gm, ought to nevertheless, be the opinion of the House that the letters ought
beeelw to give legal evidence to prove any case of subarea- to be Produced, he =tat* agreed odds the Noble Marquis in
des el perjury in this cause, whether the parties so suborning the propriety of having them referred to a Secret Committee.
were uustected with the Milan Co*
or not; It was Lord KING said that, if be =deemed the state of the pro-
'sough to know that persons bad been suborned in this cause. "'ding rightly, a consPiracl bad been charged, and Boatel
If their Lordships had a suspicion only of persons being tn. had been proved to be an active, be would not say one of them=
horned to give false testimony, they ought to suffer the fullest active agents in suboesing evidence. After that, Rasta hid beeo
inquiry into it. On these grounds he supported the motion of removed in a moat improper manner by an agent for the Bill—
Ids Noble Friend, that the question be put.
in such a manner, that if it had ocaerred in any Court of Justice,
Lord DA R N LEY read an extract from the Minutes of
the Attorney would never have been suffered to practice again.
I Evidence, to prove the agency of Sacebi. -and the caste which bad been so much damaged would have been
Lord MANNERS was of opinion that the question could et one thrown out of Court—(Hatr,heer). Reasons had ben
not be put to the winter. Their Lordships aught to adhere to whined tis excuse for sending this man away, and it was to we.
ence in the defence as in tbe case for the tale whether these reasons were the true ones that the correspon-
the same rules of think
of Sacchi clearly proved, dance was now called for. The Noble Earl had said, there was n°
inn. He did not t the agency
submitted whether the opinion of the Judge. ought not to oyster', in the business. He (Lord Klng,) thought the whole
and
be taken on that point ? proceeding from beginning to cod, bore a character of mystelP
The Marquis of LANSDOWN add, that while he had a sat The Noble Earl (Liverpool) had en a former day avowed hint.
in that House, be never would cepien to refer to the Judges self, to be the responsible author of the procedlap, but to-
any retool, of fact; for their Lew* were to decide upon day he seemed rather to shrink from that avowal and t 3
this. If agency was riled, their Loniiiir would depart from wish to make the House the Prinellels, while his al
their usual prattle if -they referred due rim to the Judges; t one and all, sheltered themselves in an uniform silence, and
would be !meg wipOsillitiemkkgidedoes which they did not offer even a word in defence of their leader.--

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