Star.
London, England, 1821-05-19 00:00:00

MANCHESTER MEETING.

froth the House being overloaded with Imaittess, be
could not name a day.
Sir J. NEWPORT said, that it was the fault af the
Government th.t. the House was overloaded with bu-
siness. This Bill was, in fact, one of taxation.
Lord MILTON hoped that the Learned Gentle-
man would look at the Bill, as new clauses had been
added, and a schedule: above thirty clauses bad been
added to the Bill.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that the balances in the Exchequer, and the
Unclaimed Dividends, excepting £1,000,000, be ap-
plied to the public service.
Mr. GRENFELL wished that the other balances
in the hands of the Bank should be applied to the
public service; that balance amounted to £4,000,000,
and a saving might be made of £lOO,OOO a-year.
- Mr. MARTIN wished that a list of the Unclaimed
Dividends should be published, as seven years had
elapsed since the publication of any list.
Mr. BARING said, that a compensation had been
made by the Bank for the advantages they were to
enjoy; and among them was, that the Bank should
be the banker of Government, and should hold the
balances in question. He hoped the House would not
listen to repeated misrepresentations and mistate-
ments, but would do equal justice to the Bank as to
any other Corporation whose interests were at stake.
Mr. GRENFELL had thrown no imputation on
the Bank of England. The same arguments had
been urged when the balance had been £11,000,000,
and not £4,000,000. It was competent for the House
to reduce the balances to what they chose. It was
enough to leave £1,000,000 in the hands of the Bank,
and the rest of the balances might be applied to the
purchase of Exchequer Bills.
Mr. BARING thought that would be an act of
great injustice to the Bank, after the agreement that
had been made at the renewal of their Charter. It
would expose the Government to much inconvenience,
if it had not a large balance in the hands of the Bank.
Mr. HUME said, that since 1796 the Bank had
divided £26,000,000 among themselves, being seven
per cent. interest. There had been no engagement
on the part of Government that the Bank should
keep any stipulated sum in their hands.
Mr. cALcRAFT said, a great sum was allowed
to the Bank for transacting the business of the Go-
vernment. That allowance was £270,000 a-year. He
thought a million would be a liberal sum to leave in
their hands. The present sum was too much.—The
Resolution was then carried.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
moved that a certain issue of Exchequer Bills should
take place for Public Works and Fisheries in Ireland.
Sir J. NEWPORT complained that the object of
Government had been defeated in Ireland from the
conduct of the Commissioners.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER de-
fended the conduct of the Commissioners.
Sir J. NEWPORT had made no attack on the cha-
racter of the Commissioners; he had only imputed
an error of judgment, and that they should have
stated the reasons of their conduct.
Mr. BARING thought a more explicit statement
should have been made; £150,000 had been issued,
and he wished to know if the remaining £3.50,000
was still at the disposal of the Commissioners?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could
not tell till he had referred to the Act.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented a Petition
from Richard Stodart, of Dean's End, Staffordshire,
stating, that the Petitioner was in the habit of going
to Manchester to sell his wares, and did so on the
16th of August, 1819, and having done so early in
the morning, he had retired to his Inn, where, when
at Manchester, he regularly put up. He was there
at five in the afternoon, when a party of the Police
came to the house, and ordered all the guests present
to turn out. The people of the house and the Peti-
tioner represented to them that he was not a promis-
cuous guest, but that he resided in that house when
in Manchester. His representation was disregarded ;
and he, still expressing unwillingness to go out, one
of the Yeomanry struck him, and inflicted a serious
wound on the head of the Petitioner, by which his
brain was injured, and he had since been incapable
of attending to his business, and all his prospects in
life were destroyed ; and that himself and family
have, from that period, been supported by parochial
aid, and the bounty of some friends. Petitioner went
on to state, that his poverty prevented him from seek-
ing redress in a Court of Law, and therefore he prayed
an inquiry by that He use into this and the other hor-
rible transactions which took place at Manchester on
the 16th of August.—Ti►e Petition being brought up,
Sir' F. BURDETT entered into some explanation '
of what had been said by the Attorney-General re-
specting Mr. Charles Pearson having been saddled
with costs by the Court of King's Bench, in proceed-
ings instituted by him against some Magistrates of
Lancashire.

Mr. DENMAN said he felt bound to state that
Mr. Pearson had acted on his advice in the case in
question; and if any blame attached to those pro-
ceedings, the blame attached to him. It had also
been represented that he (Mr. Denman) 'had stated
the Manchester Meeting to be a legal Meeting. He
had done no such thing. He had come to no opinion
on the subject. He believed that, as regarded many
who attended the Meeting, it might be a legal assem-
bly, though the motives of those who called it might
have rendered it an illegal Meeting.
The Petition was ordered to he printed.
WAYS A.Np MEANS.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHE9IJEII
shoved, that the House should resolve itself into a
Committee of Ways and Means, which was agreed to.
Mr. HUNIE wished to learn when the Spoiled
Stamps Bill would come on, as lie wished to propose
, some alterations on the allowance to distributors?
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCKEWER sail,

an Amendment—gg That it be an instruction to the
Committee, that, duly taking into censideration
circumstances of the country, they .huuld
proceed to
enforce the most rigid system of economy, as far as
the same can be held without dett iment to the sub.
stantial interests of the State."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
no one denied the Hon. Gentleman's general prop*,
sition : they only denied that the Estimates were ea.
travagant—(Hear, hear! from the Oppositioo.
Mr. MABERLEY said, that it wits trifling with
the country to talk of economy with an ezpenditure
of 17 millions. By next year no man could hope to
draw from his lands within 50 per cent. of what he
drew then. A saving, by economy, might be made
to the amount of four millions. Economy, to he
effectual, should take place at the head of the State.
He hoped that Ministers, and even his Majesty him.
self, would shew an example of economy. In 1792
Mr. Pitt laid down a solid system of retrenchment;
and if the Hon. Gentleman would take Mr. Pitt as
his model, he would do well. The utmost revenue
in the time of Mr. Pitt was sixteen millions, out of
which nine was paid to the Public Creditor.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that the
preliminary discussion only gave opportunity foe
making large and loose assertions. Of the 17 mil.
lions, stated by the Hon. Gentleman, five had nothing
to do with the question, and the real expense was
12 millions. But could the Hon. Member take four
out of the 12 millions, and then say that the tom
try could be governed at an expenditure of only
eight millions ?—Mr. MABERLEY explained.
CALCRAFT said, that the statement of his
Hon. Friend had never been refuted. Though a
number of reductions had been moved not one of
them had been carried. Resolutions of this kind
could not too often precede a Committee of Supply.
Did not the result of the last three millions of the
new taxes shew the state of the country, and that the
present expeusive establishment could not be sup.
ported ? The larger were the sums that could not
be reduced, the more prying should the House be
into those sums that could be reduced. The preset
Ministers were attached to a Military Government.
In the Department of the Ordnance a considerable
reduction might be made. There was a Resolution
for economy on the Journals, and that Resolution
had been followed by an increased expenditure in all
the branches of the Government.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, that ere langmve of the
Hon. Member was that of all minorities. But the
[lon. Gentleman had sometimes voted with the ma-
jority, and had more frequently voted neither with
majority nor minority. The House was then about to
go into the Ordnance Estimates, which had nothing to
do with the Civil List, or collection of the Revenue.
The Estimates of the present year were a million and

a half less than those of the former year.
Mr. CALCRAFr had voted for the salary of the
Commander-in-Chief, but in future he should be
more cautious how he left his. friends.
Lord MILTON would certainly vote for the Re.
solution of the Honourable Gentleman, though he
should not expect much benefit from it. Though the
Honourable Gentleman might feel this Resolution, if
placed on the Journals, imperative upon him, yet
he would not, he was afraid, find it equally effi-
cient upon the Government. lithe Honourable
Mem-
ber wished to know why such a system of expendi-
_
leli

Mr. GRENFELL said that the Irish Commis- ture was kept up, he had only to 100- k tohis left, and
sioners had governed themselves- by the same rules to the benches immediately near him—(Hear, hear).
as the English Commissioners. The number of official Gentlemen on these benches
Mr. S. RICE said, that from the conduct of the fully accounted for that expenditure. • It was said
Commissioners no benefit had accrued to Ireland. that a revolution might be apprehended, if some re-
The case of Ireland and England was wholly dif- lief was not given to the country. Revolution was
ferent. He would satisfy the Chancellor of the Ex- a vague term, but he believed that a kind of resolve
chequer that the rules laid down by the Commis- tion was now going on in the country—he meant a
sioners would not apply to Ireland. The capital of revolution in property—Wear, hear).—lf things went
Ireland was land, and the Commissioners would not on as they were now going on, there would soon be
take that as a security for the required loans. He an end to the substantial- yeomen of the country—
trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would look (Hear, hear)—and there would be nothing in a short
into the subject minutely, time but very rich men and very poor men—(Hear,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, hear).—He personally respected several of his Ma-
lt had been the invariable policy of Government not jesty's Ministers, but he believed they were not aware
to interfere with the Commissioners. of the real state of the country, otherwise they wadi
BUDGET. not continue in their present system of expenditure.
On a vote of £500,000 on the advance of the Bank Mr. HUME said, that nothing was so common a
of Ireland, Mr. BAKING wished to know when the to discuss the expenditure of the country before the
Chancellor of the Exchequer would make his general Speaker had left the Chair. He thought the Cif
statement of the finances of the year? List most extravagant, as £BOO,OOO now was equate
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, £1,400,000 when the Civil List had been voted. The
he should be glad to answer that question, but it de- expense of the Tower of London was £20,000 more
pended on the progress of the Supplies. Before they now than it had been in 1808, in the midst of the
were voted, the lion. Gentleman was aware it was war. There had certainly been no economy in the
neither usual nor proper to make any general state- Ordnance Department.—The House then divided:
ment of finance.—The Resolution was agreed to, the For the Amendment - - - 40
House resumed, and the Report was ordered to be Against it . 65
received on Monday. Majority - - - - —25
ESTIVATE/I. SUPPLY.
The C H ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUERmoved The House don went into a Committee of Supply
the Order of the Day for a Committee of Supply. The first vote was £14,631 for the salary and pay d
On the question that the Sea/teen do leave the Chair, Officers and Clerks of the Ordnance on foreign stances
Mr. CHETWYND said, at a period like the pre- Mr. HUME said, that the expense had been to
sent, when so much distress prevailed, when so many much increased, that it ought to be reduced. Sipa
manufacturing towns were on the verge of insolvency, 1818, four Clerks had been added to the Establish•
and when so many taxes were so patiently borne, the ment at Malta. At Barbadoes, Ceylon, and the lonia
People of England were looking with anxious eyes Islands, great reductions might be made; £238 vs
to those.who represented them in the Great Council charged for a Storekeeper at Heligoland, acid his*
of the Nation. They had crowded the table with duty was to take charge of the powder for the m
Petitions, with the strongest prayers, in the most ing and evening guns. The expense of that island
courteous language. In the discussion of the Army was £lO,OOO, much more than the fee-simple of St.
and Navy Estimates, great efforts had been made to For the last six months this Storekeeper had beat
effect reduction, but they had failed—(Hear, hear). this country. He should move for a reductioa a
Those exertions had, however, done much practical twenty-five per cent. or one-fourth upon the sum pro'
good; they had the effect of clearly exposing to view a posed to be voted.
system of extravagance of which he, for one, had no Mr. WARD opposed the Amendment, and stated'
idea, and which had induced many well-thinking that in the places alluded to, an increase of clero
persons to ray, that if the House did net reform it- be
had been caused by the increase of the Establishment.
At Malta, there were 600 pieces of cannons
self within, a Revolution must take place without.—
He believed that the first would be the case, for he fortifications extended fifty miles. That was the cue
would prophecy that no War Minister would next of the large Establishment at that place.
year briag down such Estimates as those of the pre- Mr. H. G. BENNETT said, the system of co!
sent year: —if he did, he would be addressed in the pensation must have originated with one devii.l
another. The Magistrates of Middlesex found sr.g..
language his Majesty used when he saw the head of
Charles the First in the vault at Windsor—ss Take it there was an uncommon number of bad f awns 'to
tug the prisoners in Cold Bath-fields. Inquiry
away ! take it away ! it is too horrid to contemplate." and t
i 0
made, andt was found that a clerk in a Public tiP
He hoped nothing would induce the Hon. Gentlemen encoh.. ~
lice was in the habit of giving orders to these p
opposite him to relax itetheir exertions for ecooomy.cair
He for one would temain by them till Christmas to and when it was put an end to, he (the clerk) . _
oppose one shilling being voted beyond what was for a compensation ; and, in doing so, be mightbs7
absolutely necessary. The distress of the country was quoted the example of the Ordnance. There e;
unity Placemen in the division on the last dehateet
such, that if relief was not given, the yeomanry must
be annihilated, and it could not but excite the utmwt i this quettion, who only came down to the llou . °
disgust that under such eircanist•intes cxtritv4,2,4„t i vote against Taxes which bole hard on them.eic2:
eftablishmeuts should be I,etsiaLed M. tic moved as .tlicir tt:tillt.S. He shotild Mit Vets for d12.21.Pe1"3