Star.
London, England, 1818-04-16 00:00:00

any prittsiple

•
wondered that the Ho-
proceeding in she stme*elegant
calked the Members who coin.
',.gang".. The Gentlemen air'
a were Permits of :sec=
; that- therefore cal
en whisitta ground
feelongssaf onimiPottrihseis44iesii
and perhaps not
leisla..thirkfunneeithle.emd Learned
Aelleel3lmigham) in some .of his
.hehosajiseedears, certainly not in
ir re 'from the same sl
theHonourable and Learna
min fodnd•the elegant .expression "Tlickesl"),;
Might be calked ".Ihe giji die gab I"—.(Laughtet),
would nasotbing further .as to the character
of that meeting, since even the Honourable Geode:-
man hlniselralowiseLthat is Was coteposed .tiany
of the tklast Tespectahluiiinnbers. of the Homes, . As
to such meetings in general, be Was decidedlrofispii•
niort that they'avekeyralcillatedto produce Veryitsste-
rat effects. The present occasion .was fail indsiabe
For such was the respect shown by Ministere
ilithe opinion.of these 'who composed this meetings
it- manifesting the public opinion, :that they had imp
ceded from their Original-pnopcsal. With respect eq
the resolution nov/ moved, for a provision feria*
Duke of Clarence, he could not concur in ility.pmet
Position which wad& plate that ill
2.1; a situation in which he did not stand, elm. •
presumptive to the Thartre--(hear, Male
Lord who moved the Resolution bad taken Teases
views of the subject, but there was one view al ie
which the Noble Lord had not taken. The Duke of
York was married, and had been married for some
time, without having any issne but supposing any
circumstance should occur which should enable his
•Royal Highness the Duke of York to marry again ?
The case was one which it was fair on such an occa-
sion to take into contemplation. And if it should
occur, would not his Royal Highness then very justly
come to the House and say, that be was in the same
litigation as his Royal Highness the Prince of Sate-
e+burg, when the House had voted the provision for
Mtn? In this view, and on the very principle which
had regulated the House in its vote on that occasion,
kit could not agree to any measure which would distin-
viish the Duke of Clarence from any of the younger
members of the Royal Family. He would readily con-
car in voting a provision of 60001. a year to the Duke
of Clarence, in addition to his present income bat
further than that he ought not to•go—(hear, hear).—
The. Noble Lord- his brought forward the present
motion with great candour, and had stated the
rounds on which .Ise- proposed it, and these out
which Ministers had• receded from the original pro.
Bin still the Noble Lord seemed not to have
laid the whole 'subject before the House. In 'toms
puting the revenue of the Duke of Clarence, he had
stated the provision already voted by Parliament
1441001. and in addition 2,8001. and 1,1001. for his
Nati& situations. But, betides these, Jun Royal
Duke had a Charming residence, to which were at-
01101heikettch advantegee as Rangerships of Parks and
of lands asvould not be worth less than
'Siiiitiloral., The proposed object of the iv--
-

wants
the present
The •
those,

the dfleha-ige

consonai

an additio. respect to
jointures, it was primeieff that the Duellist of tia-
rence should have. a jointure of SOOOl. similar in
amount to that of the Deehess of Gloucester--and
that the other Duchesses should have jointures settled;
on theni of 70001. each. The scope of the alteration
was this, to give the Duke of Clarence 50,0001. a year,'
instead of 40,0001.—arid the junior branches 24,0001:1
instead of 36,000/. On this scale, the aggregate ex-
panse would-be (if the Duke of Kent rnamed) 9,0,0001.
per annum. The sums that would fall into the Con-
solidated Fund amounted to 6Q,0001.—50 that, after
covering the 28,0001. there would still be a saving of
81,0001:per annum. The Noble Lord concluded by
moving Resolutions that 10,0001'. be granted to his
Majesty, for the purpose of providing an establish-
ment for the Duke of Clarence an his marriage ; that
60001. be granted for the Duke of Kent, &c.
Mr. BARCLAY begged the House to recollect,
that the state of the country at present was such,
that steps were taking for the purpose of raising
nearly 10,000,0001. to provide for the services of the
year ; that the Prince Regent had thought it neces-
sary to give up 8000/..a year. of his income to assist
in alleviating the distresses of the people; and that
most of the Members of the Administration had
made a proportionable sacrifice of their income.—
Under such circumstances it was that this proposal
was brought before the House. He could not by
any means admit that the case of the Duke of York
was in any degree a fit precedent for the present oc-
casion. In 1792, the situation of the country was
widely different from what it now is ; besides, in the
marriage of the Duke of Clarence, he could only see
the marriage of one of the younger members of the
Royal Family. In the case of the Duke of Camber-
land, he did not understand that the establishme4
of that Royal Duke had exposed him to any addi-
tional expense since his maeriage, and therefore he
should oppose-the provision for him. But the quev.
tion now before the House was on the provision fol.
the Duke of Clarence; and, therefore, on ,the prim
ciple that his Royal Highness in such a case should
be placed exactly on die same footing with the othes
younger sons of his Majesty, and therefore he "should
decidedly oppose the Resolution now moved. At
the same time, u he admitted that some provision
was proper on such an occasion, he would not meet
it with a negative, but would move an amendment,
for the purpose of postponing the consideration of the
question. lie should therefore move that the conside-
ration of this question be postponed to this day week.
The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Dresden) said, the Anion&
ment of the Honourable Gottingen would trot be
regular.. His object would prpD .he obtained*
moving, as an Antendment,. )IF7a
7 •
Mr. BARCLAY then nweett, of an Anilaliftedg-
-64 That the Chairman do now mport progniss;
ask leave to sit again."
Mr: PARNEL begged the House to consider**
the illustrious-Personages for whom the House wee
now called upon to make a provision, were cut off
from many sources of emolument which were open.
to persons in a different situation in society. He was
decidedly in favour of the original motion.
Mr. PROTHEROE congratulated the House on
the effect which the manifestation of the feelings
of the House had produced on the original propo-
sition of the Noble Lord. But he could not help
observing, that the Noble Lord seemed still to
vindicate his original proposition, and even at one
time expressed a doubt whether the House would
be disposed to come down to agree to so low a
proposition as that which he had now made. He
trusted that the tnarriages in contemplation of the
illustrious personages in question were founded on
feelings which could render their connubial felicity
quite independent of the addition of any pecuniary
provision from that House. Ile would ask whether
his Majesty's Ministers had in this instance acted
with honest sincerity towards their illustrious Mas-
ter, if they represented the acceding to any proposi-
tion of this kind as a test of the loyalty of the people
of England? Certainly not. And yet did it appear
as if it were principally on the ground that it was a
test of loyalty on the part of the Parliament that the
Noble Lord called upon the House to vote for his
resolution. He would consider the best sort of loyalty
that which consisted in addressing the Sovereign in
the language of truth. The House had already given
the most satisfactory disappro'val of that old ca-
lumny, that it was unduly influenced by the Crown,
and he hoped that by its conduct in the present case,
k Would give a still more satisfactory refutation of
it. He could not but observe 9a the unfair allusion
whiCh hid been made to the vote of the House on
the subject of additional allavrince to • the Duke of
Cumberland. He' called' rtitfair, becauSe he be-
lieved that if ever there wak a 'vine which spoke the
voice of the peOple, it was that Bich refused an ad-
.(ll6(ital alio wao,coo....thet Royal Duke—(hear, Istar.)
On whole,. therefore, he eoeld not bring himself
to vote in favour of the'reseintion, Which he 'tinned
Die House would decidedly te)ect. " • '
Jr. GURNEY alluded to the practice in- the!
thnesof the ,Houses if .York and ..I.fan.usur' 'when
the Princes of the Royal Blood cant:Mita
Mirtiagei greit:heire.stis--(e'ltititheYwerei
now forced into alliances with weak 'and -poor Get.
Ilan -families._ The consequence was these applica..
tions to Parliament for money..--He should oppose
• •
the Resolution.
Mr. HOME SUMNER beganby referring to the
Meeting which had been called out of doors, of the
friends of Ministers. On that occasion, a rminber of
Gentlemen had been called together and those so
called together were they who, by their *nation hi
the Country, and their til.bits of rattOr.e
constituents, riattitte supposed toouLAtltalste
menti of the great body .of the popper
nourable Gentleman opposite had &Ought Toosow to,
talk of some Members being " cleiked" Into that

..

lead been made, nor did he think it well used now,
i by hoOking in the Duke of Cern terlaud into a4rant,
in prospect of other mai riages—(losid cries ehear,
heraisssrXons all sides of the House). He felt ember-
and at a loss how to act, from the terms of
the: motion and the amendment, for he could not
pion an amendment on an amendment. Butoif the
amendment was carried, he would then move that
there be laid before the House an account of the ie-
ceme derived from different sources.
Lord CASTLEREAGIIIrote, but was interrupted
opme time by loud cries of " Spoke/ Spoke!" from
~ :Dppasition. The Noble Lord said the House
was in a Committee, and, being in a Committee, any
Member had a right to address the Chairman as of-
as he thought proper. At any rate, he felt he
.:4 a rio-e-hattr.eallatubn the House to allow him to
remove a .misapprehension of the Honourable crea-
geinan. who spoke list. That Honourable Gentle-
. a • stated -that the Duke of Clarence derived not
to tha4,ooool. a year from his residence and ad-
uaatages attached to it. Including all possible ad-
vintages and means of emolument, sheep. walks, &c.
it would be more correct to estimate the emoluments
sferited from thence at 1001. a year than 30001. As
to the other observations of the Honourable Gentle-
Stan, he trusted the House would feel the very deli:
tate situation in which he (Lord Castlereagh) stood.
The Honourable Gentleman said, that the debts of
the Duke of Clarence were of such an amount as
woold,tender due Proposed vote nugatory and. use-
less for d p ley it. This was by no
'
mans true. , He courirZedeak positively *as to this,
for. be had entered into a minute examination of the
affairs of his Royal Highness, and he was enabled to
state, positively, that a provision was made for pay-
ing them off, so that they would soon be completely
extinguished, and that after covering the debt there
would remain a clear surplus of revenue to that
Royal Duke (if the present vote were agreed to) of
25,0001. a year.
Mr. COKE (of Norfolk) was againsethe Recolu-,
tion. He concurred entirely in the view which the
Noble Lord opposite (Lord Lascelles) had taken of
the state of the country with relation to this question,
and paid many compliments to that Noble Lord.
Referring to the observations of the Honourable Gen-
tleman (Mr. H. Sumner) on the expression " el.:eked"
which had been used by an Honourable and Learned
Friend of his (Mr. Brougham) be expressed the
strongest approbation of his political conduct, arid
said that as long as it continued such as it had been,
be should have his cordial support.
sir WILLIAM CURTIS said, he had opposed ahe
first proposal for a provision for the Royal Dikes, on
the ground that the scale on which it was then pro-
posed, was beyond that which the country could at
present afford ; but the proposition now made had
his eordialatort.
Mr. EL N spoke to the following effect i 7.,;.
" Mr. Brogden, I have almost always supported the
measures of his Majesty's Ministers, from a firm emi-
r lviction'of the soundness of the principles on which
they have acted ; but I am extremely sorry that they
have brought forward this measure—(hear, hear ).--
I I have always, Sir, supported every measure which
i I thought conducive to the dignity and honour of the
Royal Family ; for I have ever been a warm friend
.......atraryounget mentger of lizi"thilroiiie of l3runswick. I have felt this attach-
--atm eamily, am Mr marriage, to support him- merit' ever since I was capable of forming an opinion
itsltt a situation of splendour suitable to his rank. upon any subject, and I feel it still, Sir ; I will sup-
before he could agree to this, lie mast have an port that family even to the last drop of my blood
aolnionce that the sum voted would be applied ex- —I will, Sir—( Laughter, and loud cheering).---
tilinively to the purpose propos nl. If that Royal lam a plain spoken man, Sir, and perhaps though
Dim was deeply in debt--to the amount of 70,000/. my language be not so choice or so eloquent as that
vies pol.—where was the use of voting to. him which is sometimes heard in this House, I may still
dli sliiilnow proposed? Therefore, till he had an be able to express intelligibly that which Ido most
assurance that this was not the case, he must con- strongly feel--(Cheering.) It is the duty of every
sider, that, to agree to such a proposal, would be Member of the House to attend to the interests of
to throw away the ineney—(Hear, hear, hear.)— the Royal Family, but we must attend also to the
As to the Duke of Kent, there were many circum- interests of the people, and I cannot consent to hum-
stances to justify his situation. That illustrious per- bug them—(Laughter, and much cheering, by the Op-
son, much to his honour, had forborne the splendor position.) If the Honourable Gentlemen on the other
to which his rank entitled him, for the purpose of side, who cheer me so loudly, imagine that in what
freeing-himself from his debts, and it appeared- that I have said I wish to make my sentiments correspond
this judicious line of conduct had been so successful with theirs, they are mistaken. On this occasion, as
that in a year or eighteen months his Royal Highness on all others, I act with most perfect independence ;
would be freed from debt. When this was the case, and I think Sir, that the principles which guide my
if his Royal Highness should marry, nothing could opinion on this subject, as on most others, are widely
be more proper than the application for an outfit, different from those of the Hon. Gentlemen on the
which would then be applicable to the only purpose other side who just now cheered me—(hear, hear.)
for Which Parliament could intend such a grant.— There is no man living who honours his King and his
As to the Duke of Cambridge, certainly the emolu- Country more than I do. I consider the interests and
meets which he derived from his appointments were the honour of the Crown; but I must consider the in-
much less taan he had supposed them to be, and. terests of the people too. Sir, the distress of the people
therefore, he freely admitted that they ought not to is great ; less than it was, thank GOD ! still it is great.
be taken into account in the provision to be granted I think that the wise and salutary measures pursued
to his Royal Highness. The conduct of that Royal by his Majesty's Government hate been principally
Duke had been throughout his whole life so amiable the means of alleviating that distress. In the present
and exemplary in all respects, and not least sa in his state of the country, we cannot ventnre to impose
having all along avoided incurring debts—that he any additional burdens on the people. If we let
could not be named without adding the praises things go on in a quiet way, as they now are, war
which his conduct must always command. It was shall, I think, act wisely. But at this time to think
said to be the expression of his Royal Father towards of imposing any new burdens for the purpose now in
the Duke of Cambridge, that he had not yet'com- view, will be to insult the nation, and will. be most
mitted his first fault—an expression which might injurious to the Royal Family. If the Royal Family .
still be truly applied to that excellent and illustrious are alive-to the distresseszf the people (and lam
person. In referring to the Duke of Cumberland, , sure they are), they will wish for no greater provi-
the case was indeed widely different—(hear, hear.)— sion than such as I have mentioned. In this view I
He wished he could consider the question relative to 'consider the proposition not submitted to the House
that Royal Duke as already disposed of by the for- as one of the most injudicious that ever was brought
men vote of the House. His Noble Friend (Lord forward. I will dote for some provision to the Duke
Castlereagh) had truly said that that vote had been of•Clarencr; but the proposition now before the House
given • under very peculiar circumstances. They I shall most decidedly oppose."—( Loud cheering.)
were peculiar indeed—'hear,-dear, hear). Whets the; Lord F. OSBORN& said, he was compelled by
provision for the Duke of. Cumberland was first pro-, the duty which he owed to his constituents, to vote
posed it was agreed to by a Majority of 37 : on the against the amount of the provision mentioned in the
next debate the Majority was reduced to 18 : on the -Resolution before the Committee,
following it fell to 1-lu-till at last Members having Sir THOMAS ACLAND thought it was the duty
I
tome up to town from all parts of the country for the of the House, in deciding on a proposition of this
express purpose of testifying their own feelings and kind, tb lay out of the question every consideration
'lose of-their constituents on that subject, It was -but this:--:.What was a fitting establishment foe the
finally lost--(heer, hoer). In ail eases of a marriage, Parliament of England to allow to one of the Prinota
'With the Royal Family it was usual td send a Mesa -of the Royal Family, when entering into the state of
sage to Parliament on the subject. And why ? Be- 'marriage ? Questions :as to the character of the inci-
cause the House was thereby afforded an opportnnity ~vidual Prinie had nothing-to do with that on which.
of testifying its approbation of the measure. Was- the House had to decide. He would agree too, that
there a Message in the Duke of Cumberland's case ?.rthe House should lay out of the question, the emolit-
There was not. The assent of the Crown, iudeed, ' mom derived by the objg:t of the provision propos-
aiongiven to die marriage. But no Message to Par- ed front rivate sources, and still more, emoluments
raiment- to enable this House by an Address to ex- ,derived frpont services to the Public. The simple Pat-
its approbation, Orby silence, its disapproba- :liamentary ground on which to consider the questa-a
'had_ on that occasion been received. Then the : was, that of granting '
what was necessary to :appeal
geoposition for a provision to the Rpersons 'loyal Duke was those illustrious in the change of their sane-
oat indireedy. He thought Parliament not tion. :To apply tide so titepeoposaionef the /*We
well us id them by the way in which the proposition , Lord, be was'sorry that his views of tad question isi al

:14,..-,..1 . . • Se.) tc.aiq " .
iticen principle of libtralki, be objet tat In. rfeTR Meetil24-..441111111, ledirlwalk 1
1'794.5, the lite Duke of Glonctiikr *deed' nowa.ediglillilhaahlasecsidi
" to the amO94L.ACKPOOL per ILPON 14 'aid phraseology, bad not:talked t
present Duke hasiroa *cow of 213,000Lii.., posed. the meeting. t." fang.
limn he now mot, ' and
28,000 i„ fist; .ssitiblad.on that dectitionlatm
tour illustrious i ''.. - ' . he•thpufght it e from thailirl ipispoly, dui
irnipiissible to apimr,,Wore .tlA.tie. wiili a to eicarcisivielistifiriiipedtahil
t mitigated claini: let IA 'etoitiBWit pain in a trbe astimbrolthe feelialr
I fseh arge of his public Chiky.hittrireitiarsioli,-be- • PeoPle*Wiesb nisei, from .0
ehe conscientionsii belieeedthat he was running' tif th4=4. iddidai, we .plaid
i,k, in endeavouring to.make the measure strictly! 4Po/had t 4 vie tridk.tharklis
onant. with
;public econoipyj -of jembarrassin •_ ' titmah oppositiffilltelsl#
e illustrious inctiviitiiel ,-s . b,y,calling For so sma 1 4fdali6Cll6olll4' illiii•itbLV
addition to their incothe. ' With respect to the that which (to bortoirle
Aires. it wail Iniinotea that the Duchess of Lila.; slictionary in 'which 'the ' o