Star.
London, England, 1820-07-25 00:00:00

,

_valor ior
claratibti acasTighfrourable to %Ito), all Bills of
Pains alhil Benatiess,sopt those that had occurred
- since tke Revolution. Now, if that were the caul,
he wislied the Ikaroed Lord to lav his finger on that
• * -.BM oh lailliValti*Nnalties, since the Revolution, in'
which he would not find a greater specification of
times and places than was contained in this Bill. In-
deed he would go Farther, and say, that a luminous
seification of both was to he found in those Bills.
Abe only Bill of Pains and Penalties that bore the
slightest analogy to the present, was that which con-
cerned Bishop Atterhury and two other persons.
• Now he knew, from the preamble of this Bill, that
previou4y to its being laid on their Lordships table.
a long and voluminous Report had been made by a
Secret Committee, whi h contained not merely the
matter of charge, and of everything connected with
it, 'but comprised:the whole narrative of the proceed-
ings which had been discovered ; and-the persons
standing accused were fully apprised of the nature
of the accusation. They did not, indeed, receive
the Report itself, but the Bill certainly did contain
'specification of the charges.much longer, more pre-
cise, and more complete, than that which was com-
prised in this Bill. He did not mean to consider this
case-with reference to the individual, but with regard
• to the character and consistency of their Lordships
House, and thetefore he wished it should be clearly
understood in what the inconvenience of giving a
plain specification of time and place consisted. For
aught he knew, it would not be more advantageous
to the person accused to have the places and times
specified, than to have a proper period granted for
catering on the defence, when the case on one side
was closed. That, however, was not the question
on which the House had then to decide; it was for
- them to proceed on those principles of constitutional
and 'substantial justice, leaving out of their consi-
deration questions of law which did not apply to
so anomalous a case, and to adopt those means only
which appealed best calculated to discover the truth.
They were nor to consider whether any particular
proceeding would. be advantageous to this party or
to that, but whether it was-fit, and wise, and proper
for their Lordships to adopt—( Hear, hear).—There-
fore, as their Lordships would not deliver in a list of
witnesses, it was for them to decide whether it would
be more applicable to the attainment of substantial
justice to refuse the present request, and to admit a
great delay between, the close of the accusation and
the commencement of the defence. They ought not,
he conceived, to'adhere strictly to forms, for he was
convinced it would be more consistent with their
dignity, and more in accordance with the ends of
substantial justice at this aline, to look attentively at
the easiest mode by which that justice could be ad-
ministered. It was on this ground that he, for one,
was inclined to hear arguments stated at their Lord-
ships' bar, on the subject of this Petition ; and after-
wards it might be decided .with more propriety,
whether a clearer specification of time and place
should be allowed than was now inserted in the Bill.
—The proceedings of their Lordships, and the mode,
which they had thought proper previously to adopt,
were fraught with the greatest possible inconvenience.
Suppose a majority of their Lordships voted for a
clear specification of time and place, to whom were
they to go for the necessary information? Were
they to apply to the Secret Committee? He did not
know whether they had anything whatsoever to do
with the Bill: having made their Report, their office
was, he believed, at an end. Their Lordships who
were Members of that Committee, had not, of course,
divulged any part of that which was communicated
to them. He believed the "resolution of the House
Sad been stated to his Majesty's Attorney-General;
but he did not understand that any part of the charge,
except what the Bill contained, had been communi-
cated to that Learned Gentleman. When. therefore,
the Attorney-General appeared at their Lordships'
Bar, to open the case, he should be glad to know
from whence was the specification of charges which
he was to lay before their Lordships to proceed? From
whence was the statement of those charges to cc.me?
If they IA cm to be regulated by precedents, he found
that their Lordships, in the case which he had before
mentioned, did give notice of the sources from whence
the information was to be derived ; and he under-
stood, from the Journals of the House of Commons,
that a similar communication was made to the At-
torney-Generil, at the Bar of that House, where the
proceedings originated. But here the whole of the
specification of charges was suspended, as it were, in
air; so that neither the accused nor the prosecuting
party was acquainted with it. He thought, what-
ever they might do with the present Petition, it was
necessary, for the consistency of that House, to under-
stand from whom a specification of the offences im-
puted, and a list of the witnesses were to be derived,
. when the matter came to be opened at their Bar.
With respect to the request contained in the Petition,
it appeared to him to be most convenient, and con-
ducive to the ends of justice, that the Queen should
be furnished-with the specification required. This,
he conceived, would be better than to have an appli-
cation, in the midst of a process of this nature, for a
long delay. As far as he had been able to under-
stand the subject, it was impossible that the Queen
could be preparing for her defence at present, be-
muse she knew not where to look for her witnesses.
There was one part of the question which certainly
was of minor importance, which was, indeed, insig-
nificant, when compared with other subjects which
raturally grew out *f it ; but undoubtedly, if the
specification were refused to her Majesty, it would
be the means of putting the Country to an enormous
led almost indefinite expense; for, unless she knew
tie specific places in which the charges had been
made against her, she would be obliged to place at
their Lordships' bar a motley assemblage of wit-
nesses, drawn from every quarter of the world that
she had visited during the past six years. This was
a point of convenience; and as it referred both to the
accused party and die country, he trusted it would
rot be lost sight of. As to the substantial justice of,
the case, he was sure no leaning to the one side or
the other would affect their Lordships judgment;
but in point of consistency, convenience, and analogy,
Ise thought it would be much better to furnish the
person accused with a clear spe.,fication, such as the
Fetition called for, than at a future time to grant a
long period to enable her to prepare for her defence
—(fleer, hear, hear).
The Earl of LIVER POOL was aware of the diffi-
c...6e6 of drawing a strict analogy; buthe observed,