Star.
London, England, 1811-07-16 00:00:00

down to the last two years, when the depression of entn-
merce by the Edicts of France turned the rates of ex•
change against us. Though he acknowledged that
much, be did not deem it proper to recommence the
cash payments at the Bank, so soon as seemed generally
required. There were no gold equal to meet the con-
sequences of resumption in the country—there was
no free trade, and we coma not find gold unless that
we did it by traffic. Had they to pay for it, notes
would do nothing in the purchase. (Hear, hear.)—
Bank notes were created for internal currency. No
assignment of goods, he was credibly informed, could
be made to draw gold in any quantity from abroad.
We needed therefore to content ourselves with a sys-
tem which for fourteen years had preserved the coun-
try in the most prosperous condition ever witnessed
by any Government. The Noble Lord (King) and
all the nation had in the Bank Restriction accepted
paper for gold currency, and was the Noble Lord to
demand from his tenantry what was not in circula-
tion ? His lands vere leased out after the restriction
(Hear, hear) ; he was no stranger to the knowledge
of rental payments it paper currency. Were the
Noble Lord, or any other person, to distress a farmer
because lie chose to pay his rent in common Bank-
note tenders, would he be assured that the goods would
in auction, be purchased with gold ? What would
the proprietor do with gold, he might not sell it above
its legal value, and lie would have either to take it
to the mai ket cr the crucible. (Hear, hear.) The
Noble Lord had written a book on the subject, and
finding the public opinion tote against h.m, for the
sake ot his r epination as an author, he made the pro-
position to his tenauts, that notes being 20 pounds per
cent. depreciated, they must pay their rents in hard
cash. He believed his Lordship to be a well mean-
ing man, but he feared that he had for got the Noble-
man in the Author. (Hear, hear.)
Mr. HERBERT explained.
Mr. BROUGHAM believed that his Honourable
Friend ( Mr. Calcraft ) had considerably departed from
his object, by treating the present measure as a fresh
political subject. lie was willing to allow that the
measure had emanated from the Report of the Bul-
lion Committ,e, though it was quite removed from
the question of that day. The Honourable Gentle-
man had told them, and it was his whole argument,
that a pound note and a shilling were equal to a gui-
nea in market ; then how came that Hon. Gentleman
to assist such a Bill, which only confirmed what he
knew and believed was the truth ?—(Hear, hear.)—
Were they to pass a Bill expressly to confirm the opi-
nions of the Hon. Gentleman ? But there was a re-
solution an the table of the House which precluded
the necessity ot framing any such a Bill as the pro
posed one, it was one which constituted a Bank note
at its nominal value.—(Hear, hear.)—That novel and
portentous measure had produced ideas never before
known in that House, and created measures linked
with all the wild theories which even conjecture amas-
sed together, or the French, in their most chimerical
schemes, had ever dreamed of executing. Whoever
thought of constituting bargains between man and man
by an express Act of Parliament ? That was the prin-
ciple of the Bill, and at that early hour he had risen
to enter his feeble protest against such a measure ; he
was afraid that clause after clause might have altered
and softened down, till it wore a less alarming ap-
pearance in the eye of Parliament. But he solemnly
asserted, that no Amendment, however specious,
could do away the aim and scope at the Bill, there-
fore he seriously protested against it. He believed it
to be a mere pretence, that which his Majesty's Mi-
nisters had given out as their motives for framing the
Bill—the letter of Lord King to his tenantry. Why
the Bill proposed aothing of the kind. It was a
mere Bill to force that into a law 'which the Judges
of the Courts of Law deemed illegal in particular
cases. The Government raised a hue and cry in the
country on Lord King's ietimation, and a clause was
' added to the Bill to meet the evil in question. The
bill appeared to him, in its present shape, to be ut-
terly incapable of assisting the country, end was only,.
fit for creating mischief : it would assist debtors mi
cheat their creditor-, but vk ould be of no service to
the people. By express enactment of the Bill, gui-;
neas were allowed to be transported into Ireland. Thii
real value of gold might there be received, and trans-
mitted back to the receivers in Britain, and even were
these clauses omitted, the evils would not be reme-
died. He did not approve of the manner in which,
Lord King's intimation had been treated. He enter-
tained the highest respect and admiration for the cha-
racter of the Noble Lord, and perfectly approved of
his conduct—(Hear, hear) ; but he could not abide
to listen to his arguments being treated as the stable
opinions of the public, they were promulgated as the
notions of an individual. All that was proposed was
exceedingly fair and law ful payment, at the bar-
gained price of land. No relief was offered by the
Bill on that nor on any other description of creditors.
Men might borrow the money of widows and or-
phans, and oblige their creditors to take the real
value of the sum the same as though no law had
ever been established. Suppose that a judgment
was passed in the last t_rm yet unacted on, the cre-
ditors might seize the persons of their debtors, until
they were paid in gold, in paper, or in goods. He
hoped better things from the known character of *le
Judges. He hoped they never would be found wil-
ling to stoop to the base association of which they
were expected to become members. No, the fra-
mers of this preposterous Bill would never trust for
support to a Court of Law or a Court of Equity.—
The former would not meet their views, and the lat-
ter dare not. To what then must they have re-
course ? Why, to a further legislative provision, by
which Bank-notes shall become a legal tender. And
such a measure as this would, no doubt, be perfectly
effiacious in the monstrous injustice it would be de-
signed toijnflict. With respect to all past contracts,
a vast miss of debt would be very easily got rid
of, and many a fraudulent creditor would rejoice
in the couttenance of the Legislature. But here its
operation would in a great degree cease, and happy
was it for society that it would. In endeavouring to
point out its inefficiency with respect to contracts
made subsequent to its adoption, he would first no-
tice the case of the public creditor, and he was the
more willing to commence here, because from the ne-
cessity of protecting his rights the Right Honourable
Gentleman had drawn his chief argument in sup-
port of the Bill, and had endeavoured to make pub-
tic feeling subservient to his egregious schemes with
respect to the property of his fellow-citizens, sum-
moning up all his eloquence to describe the situation

to which a meritorious and industrious class of mon,
advancing with painful and laborious steps to the
acquisition of a pittance for the support of approach-
ing age, would be reduced if their interests were not
protected by some measure like the present. But he
would tell the Right Hon. Gentleman, that his at-
tempts to serve those objects of his commiseration
could be attended but by very partial success, nor
could any measure be well devised, by virtue of which
they, any more than any other classes of the commu-
nity, could escape the effects of the depreciated paper
on their future contracts. An individual stockholder
might indeed force upon his hard-hearted landlord,
by virtue of the legislative protection with which he
WAS about to be provided, the £3OO to which the
Right Hon. Gentleman had adverted, if his lease
happened to have been executed antecedent to the
Bill ; but if it were otherwise, or if he were subse-
quently to enter on a new tenement, how would he
be assisted ? Or how could he be assisted in his ac-
quisition of all the remaining necessaries which he
would have to procure after his lodging was provided,
1 whether at a fair valve, or with the saving of so much
i per cent ? Would the butcher or the baker, or the
clothier participate in the compassion of the Right
Hon. Gentleman, or bow to the intention of the le-
gislature, possessing the power of protecting them-
selves from it, and forbear, in his favour, to raise the
price of ,heir several commodities—or wouid they not
1 triumph in their ability to render abortive a favour
meant to be conferred at their expence ? So long,
they would say, as we had a chance of having, one
Iday or another, your paper converted into gold, so
long we were satisfied to attach to it a value equal
or nearly equal to what it professed to represent ; but
now you come armed with an Act of Parliament
against the effects of our reasonable apprehensions,
land ma/gre your panoply, you shall soon find that you
. are vulnerable. It is unnecessary, continued Mr.
: Brougham, to particularize the persons, whether
annuitants or others, who would be the chhi sut-
iferers from such a Bill as that now before the House;
, it would suffice to say that a multitude of widows
and of orphans would swell their numbers. Were
il those persons entitled to no sympathy, when their
incomes were abridged ? Was all our compassion
Ito be reserved for the stockholder ?—Yet it was
those among them who could least bear the loss on
whom it would chiefly fall, for even small proprie-
tors who were generally obliged to eke out their
scanty incomes by subsidiary means, were more ad-
dicted than the more wealthy individuals of the
same class to grant leases. A long lease would,
however, in future, be a very rare plienomencn—
For what landlord, who could avail himself of the
remedy which an annual tenure would afford him
against so daring an attempt to violate his rights,
would neglect to do so ? Nor did he know which
most to wonder at, an assembly composed of lauded
proprietors disposed to acquiesce in a measure virtu-
ally abolishing the tenure by lease, or the Minister
who was bold enough and blind enough to propose it.
It was now 22 years since the commencement of an
event so fatal to mankind (the French Revolution)
when it was pretended that the peasant must be re-
lieved against the landlord ; when the words used by
Reformers were peace to the cottage and war against
palaces ; the end of which was the filling tit the pa-
' lace with alien inhabitants, and surreteAding the cot-
tage with horrible conscription. Similar to these
was the pretended relief to be given to tenants against
the demand of Lord King. And what must be the
shocking consequences of introducing such principles
as these into a great commercial country ? He knew
of no substitute for this measure but one, and that
i was, the substitution of two prices, one for gold, and
i another for paper, the prices to be left to their own
' level. He knew of no other cure but this. The gui-
neas would then be found as easily as it was for De
, Yonge and Wright to have the guineas. (Hear, hear.)
1
1 How did it happen that we had win e and other com-
modities, from abroad ? We had claret from trance,
under all restrictions ; and could not guineas be
more easily conveyed on board ships ? He did not
mean to say, that guineas could be got for paper ;
but they could be procured for commodities, in the
. same way as claret was procured. All the Spanish
and Portuguese wines were open to us, alit' there
would be no difficulty in getting gold, provided tile
fair price was given for it. Now this double price
Iwould always be the test, and the pulse, for estima-
ting the amount and value of paper ierculation ; and
there would be little danger of the evil proceeding ;
for by this test the Bank would be ooliged to draw iii
its issue ; and the evil of enorm ,us circulation would
be done away. The Parliament then might repeal
the Bank restriction, and put it in the power of the
i Bank to comply with their honest feelings by dis-
charging their debts. There was another considera-
tion—he would have all the overpius Bank Stock pro-
fits—those unfair gains of the Bank—placed in a se-
parate fund ; with a *proviso that as soon as the Bank
resumed its cash payments this fund should be given
to the Bank as a bonus. This would be, if not a re-
medy, an important palliative to the existing evil.—
It was said, no depreciation of notes existed, and yet
1 that necessaries had risen in price , but that all this
arose from the financial embarrassments of the coun-
-1 try. For all this, he believed, there was no earthly
foundation. But it the assertion was true, thete was
a speedy way of relieving the country from all embar-
rassments. Take off, by a sponge, 200 millions of
the national debt ; and, of course, diminish the inte-
rest paiLi to stockholders. If there was any truth in
the arguments then of those who said, the high price
of provisions arose from taxes, a diminution would
necessarily follow in the prices. It was on their own
doctrines he called on Gentlemen to try this experi-
ment, and then let them see if the high prices arose
solely from such causes. But, boldly as the Right
Hon. Gentleman imitated the arrogant conduct of his
predecessor, it was not likely that. he would have the
confidence to make such an encroachment on the
claims of the. public creditor, Here the Learned
Gentleman drew comparisons between the money-
system of this and other countries ; and began by
noticing the expedient which Frederick 11. of Prus-
sia had recourse to for the support of his finances ;
and which was, that of issuing a base coin, which he
was at last obliged to declare by a proclamation to
be a legal tender. The expedient did not succeed ;
but it had a better effect than our measure, because
the fraud was not discovered till the silver came to
be worn away from the copper. Were we then to
imitate measures so profligate in their principle as this?
If so, he despaired of the safety of the country.

Mr. MILNE Was of opinion that the Hon. Gee:le •
man had introduced much irreLvent matter into his
speech. The Hon. Gentlemen ( Mr. Milne) then went
on to chew the extreme unfairness of Lord King's
notice and conduct; and this positioa he illustrated •
by asking how that Noble I.ord had been paying fur
{salt, coals, candles, &c. ? Had he not been peying
for these things in this said deprecieted currency
With this depreciated currency had lie not paid for
i I these things, and he had not proved to any one that
the Bank paper which he proffered had been refuses
in any one instance to his detriment ; but though Le.
had paid in this depreciated currency, yet he now
I stepped forty :rd and told his tenalats that he cteild
receive their rents in gold only, he knowing; that it
would be impossible to comply with his :pee dixit,
except at an immense, at an almost ruin()()-, loss.
But a law ought to be made to compel those who re-
quired payment in gold also to pay in gold.--(//care
(hear.)—The evil of such a proceeding would then
correct itself. He would digress somewhat from his
main argument, to illustrate the mischievous tendency
of the Notate Lord's conduct. If the Noble Lord's
example were followed, how considerably would it
affect the revenue of the country—those taxes which
were not ad valorem, such as the Property Tax ; but
were describable under the head, specific duties, such
for instance as that on wine, which was so much far
I flee,
d aboutan d aC
the() . G
0I
vf
eLT
nomr de
Government
King'swe reelampcompelledle were
to 1 "l
1 re-
ceive the depreciated paper (for that conduct would
(depreciate the paper), there would be annually a
virtual remission of the taxes calculated on of. about
' ten millions sterling.—(Hear, hear.)—Such would be
the effect of persevering in the Noble Lord's exam-
ple, and of so undervaluing the paper which the
I Government would be forced to receive. He regret.
)
i ted much that the Noble Lord had acted so unwise-
ly ; but since Parliament had resolved on providing
a remedy for the evil that was caleatleted to result
from it, he thought the case should be met fully.
The Bill before them did not go far enough. Each
person who required to be paid in gold, should in re-
turn be compelled to pay in gold ; and in order that
Government might receive the Assexed Taxes to the
full and actual amount that had been named by Par-
liament, landlords and others should be obliged to
pay them in gold or in paper after the scale of depre-
ciation which had been named. Such an act would
meet the evil. The Noble Lord's conduct went to
make that insecure, the security of ulna only could
enhance its value. What made his land valuable, but
, the security in which he held it? His conduct in issu-
ing the notice he did was in direct opposition to the
spirit of those laws by which he had been protected.
He (Mr. Milne) could not be insensible to self-inte-
rest; and he could not forget that it was "n his 'allied
property he relied, and he looked forwerd to that for
the meiotenance of his own importance. He could
not forget taro of what importance land owners were
in the country ; and he still found that they conti-
nued to be what they always ha .1 been, in his estima-
tion, of greater weight than either the great capita-
Ilists, the fundholders, 14. the West India planters.—
: Hi: remembered of what witiglit were the tandhold-
. ers, and lie was thanktul for the blessings which he
enjoyed as one of them ; but he would not theretore .
sit down and calculate the deieleation that would re-
sult from being paid in an assumed depreciated cut-
I rency. He was ready to admit that Lord King was
distinguishable for the possession and exercise of many
virtues ; but his recent conduct had promoted a most
mischievous discussion.—(Near, hear !) l'he lauded
and monied intereststs could not be separated ; and
by the support of one, they would maintain the other.
; Experience showed that they could not be separated;
comotned they promoted the prosperity and happiness
of the country. A sage of old was asked his idea of
a perfect Constitution. ~ That's a perfect one," re-
plied he, " which conceives the insult offered to the
lowest individual in the State to be an insult offered
to the Constitution itsclf..' if such were the correct
idea .it a perfect Constitution, how near our's must ap-
proach perfection ! The Bill before them illustrated
his remark ; Parliament had taken into consideration
that act which went to injure most materially the
lowly but honest tenantry of another part of the king-
dom ! The Bill, as far as it went, he approved; but
in his opinion it did not go far enough
Sir THOMAS 'FUR VON contended, that if there
were a necessity for such a Bill as the one before then),
then indeed would there be a proof of the assumed
depreciation of Beek notes. With Lord King's no-
tice he found great tault. The Noble Lord remarked
—.. There being a depreciation of Benk-notes," dec.
Why did the Noble Lord assume such a fact ? It was
unfair to take it for granted that notes had depreciated.
The Hon. Baronet then maintained at greet length,
that there v. as no necessity for the Bill b.-fore them.
The example of Lord King had not been tollowed in
one single instance ; and even had it been follow-
ed, the evil would have worked its remedy. He
then took a view of what would be the probable re-
sult of Lord King's notice, and strongly urged the
moral impossibility there was of his plan being car-
ried into execution, even had his Lordship persevered.
As to the injustice that some had talked about of
forcing the circulation of Bank-notes, what could be
mere unjust, he would ask, than to send a poor tenant
to jail because he could net pay his rent in gold? from
peculiar circumstances gold had withdrawn from ge-
neral circulation ; and it would be unjust in the ex-
treme to endeavour to force a tenant to purchase gold
at an immense loss, when he could get nothing but
Bank paper for the commodities which he took to
market. " Oh ! but you must get gold in return for
your commodities," the landlord would say ;—well,
then, if the tenant were to insist on such payment, he
would find nu purchassers, except at a most ruinous
loss. It was ridiculous in the extreme to talk of
paying in gold, to tell tenants they must pay in gold,
for the Bullion Report had proved that at was not
practicable at the present moment tor causes which
they assigned. But he must again observe, that
Lord King should have been lett alone, that Par-
liament had done wrong in entertaining the bill for
one moment. The reveries of every tanciful finan-
cier ought not to furnish subjects for the grave deli-
berations of the Legislature. The project was fanci-
ful and absurd in the extreme, and Lurd King, had
Parliament nut interfered, would have found it Me
possible to persevere. He would not have dared to endea-
vour to bear up against the torrent of public ()pillion, so
much as to persevere in his notice. He would have
found the general indignation too strong to cope With.
If he ejected people from his farms because they