Star.
London, England, 1818-04-11 00:00:00

committed by Ferguson, the letter in-
fence
fence had proved; and Tee the Honourable Gentle-
,lisnuteely pr
r ell. W. Dundas) sat down saying that he would
env I- •
the motion, and that it was impossible but
that every Gentleman se
must be satisfied—and why ?
Because La dDouglas denied that he }tad given Fer-
n
ego any authority. After all, this was •no more
atithe denial cif the person accused; and because
teerson accosed dented the charge, therefore the
eommis of England were to rest satisfieJ, though
e possession of as indispotable proof
r. that their pri-
firers had been infringed—(
rear. ,
recedents. In
hea) He
ca detain the House by quoting p
ro, when a complaint of this kind was made against
the Duke of Chandos, the question was referred to a
Committee of Privileges. The same thing was done
in the case of Lord Oxford. It the present case was
passed over, it would be the first instance of such a
neglect of what was due to the honour of the House.
The course for the House to adopt we.s either to refer
the case to a Committee of Privileges to take evi-
dence, or if it should be thought more convenient, to
order the party at once to the bar of the House.—
But the House would be totally forgetful of stsciON n
dignity if it did not examine infoti tins case,
Hear.an o)r-
-der a prosecution against the ty person (
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND beg-
ged the House to observe, that the notice was for a
motion regarding the interference of a Peer of the
Realms in the election of a Member of Parliament.
He begged to ask whether the motion of tl.e Noble
Lord was conformable to this notice? In opposition
to the statement ii: the letter which had been read,
the House had the averment of Lord Douglas, that
the assertion in that letter, that it was written by his
authority, was utterly unfounded—(Laughter from
the Opposition.) • There was also the assertion of the
individual to whom the letter was addressed, that he
did not believe the assertions contained in it to be true.
He would therefore put it to the House whether there
were any grounds for an inquiry as to the conduct of
Lord Douglas ? The question as to Ferguson was
(elite aleferent. The motion was that Ferguson
should be ordered to attend at the bar of this House.
He supposed that when the Noble Lord made this
motiefi, he had in contemplation the qnestions which
he would put to Ferguson ; and he would submit,
ahether Ferguson could be obliged to answer any
ceestien which might tend to ci noir:ate himself? if
be Noble Lord had thought proper to adopt the
course of moving for a prosecution, he could only
say, that nothing should have been wanting on his
part to conduct that prosecution with all his ability.
The Noble Lord talked a great deal of the agents and
partisans of Government, used to remove him from
the representation of the county alluded to. He could
assure the House, for his own part, that he had no
means of using any influence on any person in'that
county.—(Loud laughter on the Opposition Benches.)
if he had any means of such influence, it might be
another question how he would use them.—(Laugh-
ter on the Opposition Bench.) For this reason, that,
from his strong personal attachment to the Honour-
able Admiral, who was one of the Candidates, he
would be happy by any means to contribute to his
saccess.—( Continued laughter.) But the Noble Lord'.
tied of the influence of the Peerage, and bans if
Lei been directed against him. Would the Noble
Lod deny that the Noble Duke, his father, on a for-
mer occasion, when the election of the county was
contested, had used his influence to create 30 new
voters? He would not Imes referred to this, had it
not been for what the Noble Lord had said. about
the independence of the electors• for that county. As
to the present question; whatever the House might
think proper to de with Ferguson was a very dufer-
re thing from any thing with relation to Lord
Douglas. He admitted 'that Ferguson should be
Foceecled against, if he was guilty of improper in-
urference to influence the votes of electors.
Mr- BROUGHAM said, that among the old
sayings from which the Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
W. Dundas) had made his selection, there was one
which was peculiarly applicable to the speech of the',
Learned Gentleman who just now sat down, namely,
that there is no new thing under the sun ; for the
House had heard from that Honourable and Learned
Gentleman such a code of the Privileges of the House
as was new in every chapter and line. The Hon.
and Learned Gentleman had told the House that
they could not call Ferguson to the Bar because the
notice of his Noble Friend related to a breach of pri-
vilege by a Peer. But his Noble Friend, who knew
what were the privileges of the House, made an apo-
logy when he gave notice of his motion, for no such
reitee was necessary. By the usage of Parliament
such a motion as the present might be made without
any notice at all ; for it was only necessary for any
Member to wale up to the Clerk with such a letter
as that this night produced, and when it had been
read forthwith to move that the person who wrote it
be brought to the bar of the House. Such a motion
would take precedence of ail other motions, whether
they stood in the notice-book or any where else.
Then as to v:hat the Noble Lord said, of having in
'utemplation what questions would be asked When
individual was brought to the bar, he shrewdly
noted that his Noble Friend had turned over in
mind the questions which he would ask, and that
first of those questions would be, " Are you the
her of this letter ?" If the person at the bar re-
xi to answer this question, the Serjeant at Arms'
old be ordered immediately to commit him to
toady. If the Learned Lord Advocate would take
trouble to ask any one Member accustomed to',
!owns of privilege (for of these the Learned Lord
etv nothing)—(lavider)—he would find that this
is the mode of proceeding, and that it would be no
ntection to an inuividual-in such a situation to say,
not answer the question, because my an.'
vier may be used to criminate myself," because he
en perfectly safe from any use being made in a!
etrt of Justice of any answers made by hina to
yeeens put by this House. What was the case
printer was put to the bar, who had not
•oi by the avowed authority of any Lord of Par-
a:rant ? If he acted under such authority, he would
not be called to ole bar; for that I louse was a little
ect in proceeding in breaches of privilege—(hear,
4e2r;• 11, in oreieary cases, any one came forward
too trplain ct a breael of privileee, then thee- ponr
enters were oreue-ht before the House ; and was
t tee said that they should not be examined, leouose
.
-sell tend to their own crimination. Ihe I louse
!odd disgrace, reed degrade, aid vilify itself. if
eo,tect its privileges in the present in-

stance. The moth)* was confined to Ferguson,
and nothing was. said in it about Lord Douglas.—e
But he must say; that even if the motion • had been
against Lord Douglas, the House ought not to be
prevented from entertaining it, front any thing which
had passed to-night. If he were a friend of Lord
Douglas, he would say that, for his sake, the present
case should be thoroughly sifted, for if it was allowed
to rest as it now stood, great suspicion would rest
upon the way in which Lord Douglas was implicated.
—(Hcar, hear, hear.)
The LORI4-ADVOCATE rase to explain. He
had never stated that the House was precluded from
entering into the question, because notice had not
been given. What he had stated was, that the mo-
tion fell short of the notice.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, he would venture to as-
sert, that no one member who had heard the speech
of the Learned Lord, and who had heard what he
(Mr. Brougham) had said in reply, could entertain
any doubt that he had stated that speech correctly.
Mr. BATIIURST said that the question before the
House was on the conduct of an individual of the
name of Ferguson, who had certainly been guilty
of a very great breach of privilege ; but then the
House had to consider how to dispose of the motion
now before it. Tile most usual course was to refer
such a case to a Committee of Privileges, rather than
call the individual, in the first instance, to the Bar
of the House. Another course was that which had
been followed in the Bishop of Worcester's case in
1704, in which a prosecution was ordered. But in
the present case, he thought the most advisable
course would be, to refer the matter to a Committee
of Privileges ; and therefore he submitted to the
Noble land whether it would not be better to do so.
If the Noble Lord did not, he himself would move
that it should be so referred.
Lord A. II:MILTON had no objection to the case
being referred to a Committee of Privileges.
Mr. BATIIURST wished the Noble Lord to with-
draw his motion. This was declined, and then
Mr. BATHURST moved, as an amendment, that
the question should be referred to a Committee of
Privileges.
Lord A. HAMILTON,. in reply, maintained that
the conduct of his father, 15 or 16 years ago, was of
a very different complexion from the conduct now
complained of—it was a very different sort of in-
fluence. The present was not personal influence, nor
the influence of property, character, or talent, but a
corrupt influence, the influence of the Government
of the country—subversive of the liberties of election.
With respect to the making of votes, the Represen-
, tation of Scotland was unfortunately of that inade-
quate description, that- this was the mode in which
1 contested elections were conducted. The Represen-
tation of Scotland, as it stood, was a collection of
paper votes, which might or might not be connected
with property. . .
The original Motion was then itegatisied, and the
Amendment agreed to : it was ordered that it.be an
instruction to the Committee to proceed to the matter
of said complaint to-morrow ; and Lord A. HAMIL-
ros was added to the Committee of Privileges.
CURRENCY OF Tim COUNTRY.
3lr. TIERNEY gave notice, that on Friday next
Ihe should mere, that a Coniraittee be appointed to
inquire into the state sof the Circulation of the Country
both in Paper and in Coin.
Mr. TIERNEY n:oved for an Account. of the
Total Weekly A irount of Bank Noes and Bank Post
Bills, from the 5d of March to The 7th of April, and
of those outstanding on the 11th of April, distin-
guishing the amount of the Bank Post Bills and
Notes, and stating that of the whole.—Agreed to.
' Mr. TIERNEI then moved for un Account, shew.
• ing the Monies laid out for the purchase of Stock by
the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National
Debt in each month, from the sth of October, 1817,
Ito the sth of January, 1818,.and explaining the cause
of any diminution in increase of the .money laid out
in the course of each of the said months. Agreed to.
JERSEY.
Mr. BENNET inquired whether any steps had
been taken by Government, in consequence of the
Report of a Commission appointed to inquire into
the state of the Civil ]saws in the Island of Jersey.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL said, that some al-
terations in the state of those laws were in contem-
plation, but had hot yet been effected.
ORDNANCE ESTIMATES.
The House having resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of Supply,
Mr.W.A R D stated, that in proposing the Ordnance
Estimates for the year, he should have no occasion
to enter into any long details and explanations--
I There was hardly any difference between those Esti-
mates and those of 1817, except in one point. By a
new regulation, that part of the Ordnance that be-
longed to the Navy, and which had hitherto been
charged on the Army Estimates, was now thrown
upon those of the Admiralty, and would in future be
paid- by its proper department. All the Military
Boards were the same as last year. But, owing to
the exertions of the Master-General, the Extraordi-
narics had been considerably reduced. They now
amounted to only 47,0001. more than in 1788, not-
withstanding the great augmentation which had taken
place in the extent of the service and the value of ar-
ticles since that period. This could not have been
done, if the Master-General had not acted on the
principle of keeping down the expenditure every
possible way. He then moved—That a sum not ex-
ceeding 596001. Is. Oid. be granted for the Ord-
nance Service of Great Britain in 1818, exclusive of
the vote of credit of 150,000/. already granted by
the House.
Mr. BENNET called the attention of the Honour-
able Gentleman to the situation of Captain Hum-
phreys and other Officers of the Corps of Artillery
Drivers, who had been reduced and put upon half-
pay, although it had been proposed and sanctioned
by the House that they should retire on full pay.—
It was hard that after twenty-two-years' service they
should meet with such treatment, whilst Officers who
had served only three years in other corps enjoyed
their full pay.
Mr. BENSON hoped that some step would be
taken to an end their condition.
71r. WARD stated that the Corps of Artillery
Drivers had increased during the late wars to seven
thousand men, who were divided into twelve troops,
with twelve Captains and other Officers. They had
deserved well of their country, and distinguished
themselves on every occasion as far at the nature of

their service allowed. it was not, therefore, for any
fault Of theirs that they were reduced, but they had
experienced the same fate as the Army. Eight troops
had been reduced out of the twelve, and put on half-
pay. When, aft the campaign of 180, a fresh orga-
nization of the remaining four troops had taken place,
as they were still retained, full pay was given to the
Officers who retired, and from that arrangement
there had been no deviation. If Captain Humphreys
was in those four troops, and did not receive his full
,pay, then he was not in the situation in which it was
intended he should be placed, and he might not only
claim his full pay, but its arrears. But if he belonged
to the eight troops which had been reduced, then he
was not entitled to more than his half pay.
Mr. BENNET contended that the case was en-
tirely anomalous. It was hard for a person who had
served twenty-two years to retire with six shillings
and eight-pence per day, whilst individuals in more
favoured corps enjoyed their whole pay. He then in-
stanced an Irish corps which had been reduced at the
Union, and the Officers of which had their full pay.
Mr. WARD stated, that previous to the Union
(there had been two battalions of Irish Artillery, one
of which having been reduced before that event, had
been put, as usual, on half pay.• The other still exis•
ted at the Union,*and an option had been given to its
Officers, but not to those of the former, either to en-
ter into the service of Great Britain or to retire on
half pay. The other had remained on the footing of
I half pay on which it had been placed, and no com-
plaints were heard. Now if the eight troops of Ar-
,tillety Drivers that had been reduced were entitled
to their full pay, so was the Irish battalion, which
must then enter into possession not merely of 30001.
a year, but of the ariears, which for seventeen years
would amount to 51,000/.
Mr. BENSON called upon the charity of the House
to consider the situation of men who had entcral the
service with a promise that on leaving it they would
have their full pay.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
that if a promise had been pledged it would be re-
I deemed ; but if the case merely stood on the merits
of the individuals, he had no doubt that the Noble
Lord at the head of that Department would pay them
Ilevery attention, consistent with the iatercst of other
services. He suggested the propriety of suffering
the present vote to proceed, and of bringing the sub-
.
betore the House at a future opportunity.
Mr. WARD stated, that it was impossible a pro-
mise of full pay should have been made, except to
the officers.of the four troops which were retained.
After some observations from Mr. FORBES and
Lord COCHRANE, the conversation dropped, the Re-
solution was agreed to, and the following sums voted:
For Land Ordnance Service, not provided for s. d.
is 1817 58,919 17 2
For the Ordnance Department in Ireland, far
1818
For Allowances for Superannuated and Retired
Officersin Great Batain,Superannuated Men,
and the Widows and Children of those de-
ceased, for 1818 - - . -
For ditto in Ireland -
For Superannuated and Half-pay Officers in
Oreat Britain, not provided for in 1817
For Compensation and Allowances to Persons
lately belonging to the Ordnance Department,
and holding other Civil Offices 29,70 18 8
For similar. Compeneations and Allowances in
-

gargery eguiaticat Till, sill niade tohie
vations on the necessity of its being carried into effec
Sir CHARLES MACK opposed the principle
the Bill ix tote : it began at the wrong end, for
first step should have been to regulate the College
Surgeons. 'fhe fees of aditsission in the College
Edinburgh had been raised from 30 to 2504 by
confession of that Body, and if any set of individual:
were to have the sole power of licensing, money and
not ability would be the recommendation. He should
move as an amendment, that the Bill he read a second
time this day six months.
Mr. W. DUNDAS observed, that the admission
a Licentiate of the College of Edinburgh was still
only 51.; the admission fee of 250/. was to the Cori.
poration, by which great advantages were derived
the widows and families of the fellows.
Mr. WALDEGRAVE supported the Bill.
Mr. PEEL opposed it. Ile thought it would
much more beneficial if something like the residen,
in Colleges were required, and *with this view con,
&red that apprenticeship afforded a much better'
of general ability, than oral examination before
body of men whatever. The Bill had been pas,
from the late to the present Attorney-General,
from him to his Honourable Friend (Mrs Courtenr
who had adopted it as his own child, but he mi
.ay, that his Honourable Friend had not acted a
therly part, for he had exposed all the defects of
child, without enumerating any one of its supposed
perfections.
After some observations from Mr. TX GUIST:AT
Mr. Boswor,L, the amendment was carried. The
was accordingly lost.
EMPLUINIENT OP THE pooh.
Mr. Alderman WOOD brought forward his
tion for promoting the Fisheries, Trade, and Com-
merce of the United Kingdom. It would, he - •
have the effect of finding employment for the ,
more particularly in Ireland. In the latter count
there were already two Bills, but they reqv
amendment, for at present they were found so
cient that they could not be fully acted upon:
object was to bring capital to market by freeing
sons from responsibility beyond the amount 4
capital registered. He then moved for leave to ,
in a Bill to prpmote the employment of the poor
fisheries, trade, and manufactures, and for regul7
and encouraging partnerships.
The SPEAKER suggested,. that such a Bill
grow out of the Resolutions of a Committee.
Mr. Alderman WOOD then begged to shat
motion accordingly.
Mr. GRENFELL would not oppose the fele,
to a Committee, but thought proper to take the
best opportunity of stating his intention of opr
the measure in every stage, except as t rela,
Ireland, where, as well as on some parts r
Continent where capital was scarce, such •
tions were held to be beneficial ; but in En)
where capital was superabundant, it would be
with mischief, and be completely subversive
present commercial system.
Some further remarks were made by Sir.J,
PORT, Mr. FINLAY, and Mr. D. GILBERT ;
Mr. Alderman WOOD and Mr. GEENPF.LL in
nation, after which a Committee was appoint
Monday.

115,669 18 9

231",4013 2 0
11,460 14 3

10,394 7 10

4,164 G

ROYAL BURGHS IN SCOTLAND.
LORI) ADVOCATE rose, in conform)

_ .
For Repairing the Damages done to the Sea-
wogs at Portstiouth and HasLa, by violent his previous notiee, to »rove for leave to brio)
storms -.-. . 4,000 0 0 Bill to reeelate the ex penditure and to conil
The House-then resumed, and the Report was or- un due a p•-pli c atian of the
in Scotland. It was not. revenuei of ihe Royal .
dered to be received on Monday. ... his intention,
at" thaf
BANK RESTRICTIONS. hour, and in the present cOndition of ahe IP .
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER enter at large on, the subject.. The Bill weer,
b ought in the Bill to continue thet Restrictions On explain .theenatuve.uf the remedy which it 1
' Bank Cash Payments. . - ellject to apply. It went-no further than to
Sir C. MONCK asked whether, in.. the 1,800,0001. the obsolete laws of that country. It proposed
which he now understood was the only surplus of the the accounts of the Magistrates should be ex.-
Consolidated Fund, . the 650,0001. received at the the view of the Burghers, and that if• i cert,
Bank from different Saving, Banks, were included? portion of these Burghers should agree in-thi
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, city, they should have the power of com 7
that they were not included in the 1,800,0001. alluded againt any misapplication to the Court -of Er
t 9, for they were not considered applicable to the re- in that country. But as these provisions rm
duction of the National Debt, but as a mere deposit. prevent the Magistrates .engaging in
spec,
The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered with the Corporation funds, it was further
for a second reading on Friday next., to empower any five Burgesses to apply to
Mr. GRENFELLinquired whether the Right Ho- of Exchequer, for the purpose of controulin;
nourable Gentleman had it in contemplation to admit penditure. The Learned Lord then moved
the Public to the immense profits which the Bank
made by the continuation of the restrictive system ? to bring in his Bill.
Lord A. HAMILTON rose for the pui
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER did congratulating the House, that after the
not think that it would be for the honour of that Scotland had been for years petitioning the
House, or that of the country, to make them partici- —that after a series of gross misapplication
pate in the profits produced by the restrictions. porate mismanagement—after reiterated ci
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER of the revenues of these Burghs being dila!
brought itethe Bill to regulate the Issues of Country after losses by bankruptcies, in consequence
Bank Notes. appropriation—and after all these statement
Sir J. NEWPORT asked, whether the stamp which often as made been denied by the Learned 7
this Bill rendered necessary would pay any additional by those with whom he acted, they were
duty ? If so, private Bankers would not use it ; and admitted, and the Learned Lord himself
the effect of the measure would be, to throw the ward to propose a corrective. For. thirty
whole circulation of the country into the hands of Scotland been expecting this boon fram
the Bank of England, and thus augment its already of the House of commons ; yet, no longer ago.
enormous influence. last Session, did the Noble and Learned Lord,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the necessity for its interference. He mu,
the Stamp duty would be the same as that which rejoice, that even now there existed a pro
now existed, and that it would perhaps be practi- Scotland receiving some portion Of juste
cable to enter into a composition for the duty, which hands, and at the hands of the House. He
would enable private Bankers to re-issue their notes that from the difference of views on the sue
as often as they pleased. existed between him and the Learned Lord
Sir J. NEWPORT, alluding to screw had fallen remedy proceeding from the Learned Lord
'from the Right Hon. Gentleman the day before, re- to very partial relief. The self-election 01
.specting the total disappearance of the £2,500,000 gistrates, some of them for lift., yeas tin
issued in coin by the Bank, wished to inform him
reiterated in eves y Petition that had been
that it had not been remitted, as he seemed to iina-
give, to foreign countries. The fact was, that at that yet that remained perfectly untouched.
a; was the relief intended, how was it that
period some Bankers, and he spoke with certainty of
ed Lord had taken so long a time to apply
one with whom he was connected by blood, having In the
present advanced state of the Sessi
placed full confidence in the assurance given by the now impossible for those who took a mom
Right Hon. Gentleman respecting the resumption of I view of the nature of the evil, and of the
cash payments, had made preparations for that pur- ought to be applied, to bring the subject 1
pose. With that end in view, the Banker whom he liament. When the subject of the de'ay
had mentioned had drawn a large sum from the adverted to in an early part of the Session,
Bank of Ireland, which had been paid in coin, and Secretary for the Foreign Department obi:
was deposited for the time when cash payments it arose from the necessity of having till
should be resumed. I before the Juk;es in Scotland. Ide..(Lord
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER should . ton) wished to know whether in point
be glad to find that the instances of such preparations : present Bill was solely his own, or wh
had not been rare, and would make some inquiry into , been sulmiitted to the consideration of thi
the subject before the Bill had passed through the i The LORD ADVOCATE sail that no
House.—The Bill was then read, and ordered for a sponsible for that measure but hiirsel
second reading onMondayse'nnight, and to be printed.: however, rattle. ,;.an propose it in its
SURGERY REGULATION BI LI,. ! felt it his duty to consult with those w 7
Mr. COURTENAY moved the second reading of `nature of their situations, were best acq,

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are at length ' illi '
ail came IL r- t /
ty years had ' i
ma the justice i
Ter ago.than
4.11,0 rd deny ..
oust therefore ;, i • "
probability of
justice at his I l3 •
Fle was aware
a subject that •
.ord, that any .1 i I.
ord must lead :I 11
1 of the Mt- •
ithe great evil
-en pi e.citte..l ; 4
\ i
. But partial
hat the Learr.-
ply a rentdi ? 1. it
42,•sion, i. v.-a;
nore extend, d
irfl i ,
the relief that ,
'et before I'.t:-
'ay had Le2n
;ion, the Ncbt.e
observed tl.at lt
the Bill laid
'll/' ,
ord A. Ham il.. . 4
int of fact • the 1
wheti.er 'it had ; 1;:a .•
:. the dueges? i. I
no one v.-,as re-
self. He Ir..',
its crude stat,', •
r
Avilo, teem the i
Lcqualuted -.....b.
i
1
400, . i
• or