Star.
London, England, 1816-03-19 00:00:00

•

the Tax was first pris'Orid. and he heard Mr. tilt
declare that it shriuhl lb a War Tax only, and should
positively cease on thei, restoration of peaca—
hear).—He was particularly sorry that a Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman, ,whose character was in every
point of view so honrurable as the Chancellor of the
Exchequer's was„ should have for a moment denied
that any pledge was given.for the abolition of the tax.
• (Hear, hear )—Not only the Members of this House,
but every man who knew any thing of the history of
the Tax. knew that pledges a the most solemn na-
ture had been given for its abdition—pledges which
could not be violated without a gross insult to t:.e
British character—(Cheers from the Oftporition).—
When this Tax was first proposed by the respectable
- Meeting he had alluded to, he would Ask the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer—he would ask the Noble
Lord (Castlereagh) what tvure the views enter-
tained by the Merchants, Bankei s, and Traders ?
Did they ever for one moment suppose, that this Tax
was to be continued at the captive of any Minister
when there was no occasion for it, and that the
houses of individuals were to be entered, their books
examined. and their secrets divulged in a manner
which no Briton could bear, and which -no Briton
ought to bear—(cherrr)? Such an idea had never
entered their minds. They never refused their money
to Government when necessity called for it, but they
wished to see that necessity properly made out—
(Hear.) The Petition he had now the honour to
present was signed by 22.000 of that number, and if
the House were to examine the list of names, they
would find many among them who had rallied round
Government in the most difficult crisis, and had joined
, heart and hand in its support—(Near.) We were told
by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he must
have money, as he had great need for it —(a hregh.)-
1-1 e (Sir W. Curtis) would ask where was that neces-
sity now, that the country had returned to the bles-
sings of peace ? In the proposal made for its renewal
last year he had concurred, because he was then con.
winced, from the situatirn in which the country
was placed, that Ministers required it. It was no,
tessary for the subjugation of that restless enemy with
whom we had been compelled to go again to war.
But now when that enemy no longer was an object
of dread, now, when the country was labouring un-
der almost incredible distresses, were these distresses
not to he alleviiited, but wa. this intolerable burden
still to remain ?,‘ Go to the different parts of the coun-
try (said Sir IV.) examine the thousand varied hard-
- ships which numbers are bearing, and let any roan
judge whether the Minister-can be justified, who, re-
- gardless of these distresses, dares to add to their num.
ber. z.
Even in London, where men have better th
means of getting some relief, let the numerous lists
of bankruptcies, and the numbers out of employment,
bear witness to the melancholy state of the country.
The citizens of London-100 have signed this petition
will pay when payment is indispensible, but they detest
the idea of unnecessary oppression." (Cheery. )—There
bad been something going for ward lately, as an attempt
to see what could be done by a Counter-Petition ;
but he heard it had been signed by about seventeen
_persons, when the framers being ashamed of it, took
it away in their pockets, and nothing more had been
beard of it—(l/car, hear, hear.) The Honourable
Baronet v en moved for leave to present the Petition.
On its being brought up,
Sir JAMBS SHAW bore testimony to the extra-
ordinary respectability of the Meeting, who were so
unanimous in their opinion, that only one solitary
dissentient voice was heard against the question. He
would ask the Noble Lord and the Right Honouraa
ble Gentleman, on his own part and that of some of
their best friends, whether they still intended to ad-
b 're to a measure which almost every individual in
the country condemned ? And why was all this
Pertinacity ? Could they shew any good cause for it ?
He must confess he had not heard a single argument
that appeared to be plausible. Was the want of six
millions a reason fur imposing a tax so abhorrent to
' the genius and feeling of all the people of England ?
(Hear, hale.) He was satisfied that the tax was one
which the people could not pay, which they ought
not to pay, .and which, if carried this year, must be
relinquished the next. On whit ground was it that
this measure, was originally proposed in 1798 ? The
funds had fallen so low, from 50 to 47, that it was
impoisible to raise a loan ; but now a loan could be
procured under 5 per cent. Various modes had been
suggested to prevent the continuance of this oppres-
sive tax,, but none of them suited the inclinations of
his Majesty's Ministers. It had been suggested not
to lay the weight of a farthing on the people this
year, but Ministers disliked this advice. A mode
bad been recommended by an Honourable Gentle.
man opposite, that of applying to the Sinking Fund,
but they did not like this. They lad been advised to
pay the interest of a ioaa at the end of two years, as
was done in America, and found to answer extremely
well, but this was objected to. He c uld not there-
fore but feel sorry that Ministers, who had shewn so
much good sense on other occasions, should now be
its blind to their own interest as to persevere in a mea-
sure so generally obnoxious.— (Hear, Hear.)
Mr. MARTIN thought, that if Ministers had
borne in mind the very little chance they had of car.;
rying the measure, they would have given it up. But
understanding that they meant to persevere, and ex-
pected to succeed by may a very small majority, he
must test ;.eni tnat they would do more to alienate
she affections of the country by it than by the adop-
tion of any other measure whatever.
Alderman ATKINS observed, that the House
bud witnessed the very great joy exhibited by Minis-
ters that evening, on the contents of a petition that
might be-considered in favour of the Tax, signed by
only forty persons. •He hoped that proportionate
credit would be given to this, which bore the signa-
tures of no less than tweisty-two thousand of the most
disinterested and enlightened men in the country,
amongst whom were those who had always supported
Government. He had publicly expressed his opinion,
before be had the honour of a seat. in that House,
when the Tax was raised from 5 per cent. but even
it be were now in favour of the Tax, when he saw
what were the feelings of the whole country upon it,
be should be ashamed to offer his own opinion
against them. He had only said these few words
because it bad not been in his power to attend the
meeting. •
Mr. BARING Said, es the Meeting had been. an
fully attended, it was hardly necessary for him to
say a few words in favour of the Petition. Ir bad

the Whim% not only of the eetporitlon of the City
of Lotion, but of all the other enlightened persons:
He never saw stich_ a number of persons of the ut-
' most respectability collected together. Hehelieved
there never was such a meetitwon any occasion*ltat-
ever. If the.fatmers had been distressed, the mer-
chants had been (guilty so. But the whole argument
turned en the degrading situation in which people
were placed once a-year, by being subject to the in-
quisitorial examinations. When the Tax came regu.
larly before the House in a Committee, then would
be the time to explain the nature of that feeling of
disgust which had been excited in en-Ty part of the
country, a feeling Of which those who were con-
nected only with landed property' could form no con-
ception, and there was no doubt that they would
give their concurrence to get rid of it. Those Gen-
tlemen who were the promoters of the Tax when it
was first laid on, wire the very same persons who
now petitioned against it. It was a Tax of that exe-
crable nature, that nothing but the most urgent ne-
cessity could tolerate its existence ; and though the
Noble Lord and his colleagues were sl ready to cheer
the language of a petition which contained the sig-
natures of 36 persons, they would find, if they car-
ried the measure by a small majority, that it would
require seething more than the influence of such
personspoe even of the Court, to keep.them in their
si t u doss; —(hear, hear).
Mr. I'ONSONBY congratulated the. House on
true light in which the subject had been placed. It
was the abominable principle of the Tax, the detes-
table inquisitorial power that it gave, which induced
the 9.2,000 persons of London to sign the petition
for its condemuation. He did beseech the Chancellor
of the Exchequer to remember what the House had
been told, on a former occasion, that Petitions were
010 be estimated only by their merits, and not by the"
gold chains and tuned gowns of those who brought
them to the bar. But this Session we had the whole
weight and judgment of the commercial population i
lof London in a Petition. Arid the Right kituriur-
' able Ger,tlernan would do well to consider, whether
the boon he pretended to offer them were really a
boon or not ; for he would find ne.itly the whole mass
of the funded interest in the kingdom rejecting it.—
The Noble Lord had talked of clamouring down his
proposition for continuing this Tax; but did he think
thoae 22,000 persons could be accused of such a dm!
position ? They had heard, day after day, what had
been said in thia House, and read what had been
printed, for and against the Tax, and now came
their Petition. He would therefore leave it to the
Noble Lord to say, whether this was the petition of
ignorant and impatient persons, clamouring down a
measure, or the sober sentiments of the IZIOSt ea•

lightened people of the country.
Mr. ALEXANDER said, he felt that the Tax
was a great inconvenience; be felt it so in his own
private affairs; but be also felt that it was a benefit
to his constituents. All the monied men he had con-
versed with had agreed that it was the wisest and best
measure that could be adopted, and therefore he
should conscientiously give it his vote. It would
make people pay in one way, who would not have
paid in any way—(Lard laughter, sad crier of Rear,
irar).
Colonel ELLISON said it was his pride to have
voted with that great man, Mr. Pitt. It was a wise
measure, that enabled the country to meet the expen-
ditures within the year; it was a War Tax, and as
such might properly be continued to wind up the ex-
penses of the war. He should not be carriel away
by clamour; but he thought the Petition on the table
the most important one that had yet been received.
Mr. W. SWIM should not enter at any length
on the subject of this Petition ; but he found it neces-
sary to say a few words. The Honourable Members
for the City of London had correctly stated it to be
signed, nut only by a large majority ot their consti.
tuents, but by many thousands of others who could
not be supposed to be well acquainted with the
subject. But as an Honourable Gentleman who sat
behind him (Mr. Alexander) had 'spoken with great
confidence of the opinion ot the monied interest in
his Borough, it would be worthy ot the consideration
of the House, whose opinions were best founded. If
the opinions ot the monied interest were not to be col-
lected from the City of London, where were they to
be obtained from ? He would certainly sooner trust
to their united opinion than to any private represeo-
Latium Tile Honourable Gentleman had spoken, it ,
his ears had not deceived him, of the opinions ot his
constituents— (Hear, hear) —No doubt these opinions
must have great weight with the House : they were
the opinions of the constituents who were to be found
within the walls of that very respectable Borough in
Wilts, Old Sarum l—(Lord harm if laughter and cries
of lieor, herr). The honourable Gentleman had
greatly exaggerated his constituents, for, if he might
use such a phrase, he believed they might all be corn-
prized in one. What monied interest there might be
amongst them, he could not pretend to say—(earsh
lauester)—or whether the surprize and astonishment
with which the Petition signed by 22,000 had im-
pressed the Honourable Gentleman, bad rendered
him disinclined ,to go into the question. But he
hoped, it' this were the case, that when he had to:
coeered from his astonishment, he would not be din.
posed to vote the wrong way.
Mr. ALEXANDER explained. He had expressed
not only his own opinion, as a man engaged in trade,
but that. of many persons with whom he had dealings,
and who had money in his hands.
The Petition was then ordered to lie on the table.

RECORDER'S REPORT.

Mr. BENNETT, seeing the Noble Secretary of
State in his place, wished to know why his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent had not -received the
Recorder's Report, as there had been for some time
past so less than fifty-eight persons under sentence
of death t

Lord CASTLEREAGH said it was not an easy
thing to assemble a Council at a distance from Court.
The cause of the delay was solely owing to theist•
disposition of the Prince Regent, which kept his
Royal Highness (rom town.
Lord MILTON declared, that he heath with aster
nishment and indiation what had fallen from the
lips of the Noble Lord. What-sort of indisposition
was it that prevented an act which was the most so.
lemn of any that came under the kingly office ? Was
' it mere indisposition, as it is commonly called—and
if so, was this a reason why the Royal pleasure should
not be taken on the lives of those who had unfortu.
'lately beta capitally ousoiciod, but that they should

be telt for *eels anti mnntlii in tile tisosi direful
sit-
pence, bectuse tie Roi.tl l'erionAge happened to be
what the Noble Lord cAlled in,hbvued 4 Brighton
were 500 miles from town iortiud .0 50, he would

say it was the duty of the Ministers of the Crown to
'recommend the holding of the Ciuncil, tor such an
enormity ()VA not to be suffered. He was aware
that he hail spoken with mnre tinn usual warmth ;
but the interest of the subject must be his escute. He
should move for an 7cci•uot of the number of persons
under sentence of death, with the dates when they

were respectively sentenced.
The ATTO RNEY-GE NE It At. could conceive
that the feelings of Members who might,have visited
Netrgate and tound ss hat a 'lumber et petsoAs were
under sentence of death might have ben strongly
excited. No doubt their situation was one of great
anxiety and suspence; but it the Honourable Gentle-
men had inquired, they would have fote-id that this
delay was by no meats a new occurreuce. But v'hat
practical inconvenience could result .from this delay?
—(Hear, hear, hear ).=lie v..ould repeat 11;i question
—for he could got conceive -tny. The ticc;sioris en
their cases were necessarily p..s:poteA iroti. the indis-
position of the Royal I'vr.on. .net from the necessary
attendance of those persons whose expeii.nce and hu-
mane consideration alway, had proper weight. The
Recorder's Report comprise -I a great number of in-
dividuals, with respect to whom it was always the
kingly pleasure that the sentence of death should be
remitted, and there were hew who were convicted
with whom the law was
.stitered to take its course.
n
He would admit that the uo!ber was large, but few
would have much reason to complain of the delay
athich, he rebated, had been unavoid tble ; ;+nd
though there was no sittneion in life v.i.ic% called for
more anxious consideration th.i'i that of the persons
in question, he saw no grod this could e-arlt from
the motion, for which he theu,_;ht there was no sub-
stantial ground.
Mr. W. WYNNE expressed astonishment at hear-
ing from the Attorney-Cenral that ho inconvenience
could result from keeping fifty-eight persons now
under sentence of death in a btate of uncertainty.—
'Did he really think there was no ground of cont-
plaint, when those convicted at the lest December
Sessions were still ignorant what was to be their fate?
He was surprised that such a circutustance should
have oecurred. Within the last ten days, there had
been Council upon Council held at Brighton ; and it
appeared strange to him, while this was kilown to be
the fact, that a subject of a nature so serious as that
which had just been referred to should not have been
takes into consideration on account of the Prince Re-
gent's indispositi.nr—(!tear, hear.) It w.:s said that
it would be iuconvenient for the Law Officers to
leave Town to wait upon the Prince Regent at Brigh-
ton. He admitted this might lea so; but he thought
it an inconvenience which ought to be submitted to,
in order to avoid which, w.:1) productive of incalcu-
lable mischief. The Recorder and the Lord Chao-
celior were the only legal characters whose presence
was absolutely necessary, when the report of convicts
under sentence of death was taken into consideration.

He could not, therefore, bee that the diiliculiy in the
way of such report being made was insurmountable.
Now as to the concern which the public had with the
delay which had occurred on the vret.ent occasion,
what was it, he would ask, the infliction of
capital punishment, but the t trect which it wis pre.
sunned might be expected to pr'duccd by the ex-
ample thus affisrded ? To maktt this
was necessary that the connexion hctwem tie clime
and the dreadful punishment which w.ti its reward
should be most distinctly :narked. 1: two or three
m,nths were suffered to intervene between the sen-
tence and the execution, the et iate Mir., no longer
ntembered by the multitude: they only hearA that
so many men were to be hanged, and the death of
the unfortunate offenders furnished a sheer for the
idle, and that was all. The delay of he epin-
plained, it would thus be seen, was ions to the
public at large, and it was unnecessary for him to
describe to the House the feelings of the persons un•
der sentence, who were kept for su considerable a
period in a state of miserable suspense.
The ATTORNEYGENERAL, in explanation,
said, he had nut asserted there was no inconvenience
to be complained of, as his Honourable and Learned
Friend (Mr. Wynne) had supposed; he had, on the
contrary, said there was a great inconvenience,
which it was desirable to surmount, if this were pos-
sible. For those under sentence of death, whose sen-
tences were not to be carried into effect, the delay only
postponed for a time the consideration of their cases,
for the purpose of commuting the punishment.
•
The Motion was then agreed to.