Star.
London, England, 1821-03-16 00:00:00

MILITARY OUTRAGR AT CARLISI.F..

Mr. JAMES said, the subject which he was about
to bring under the consideration of the House was
important, not because the right of his constituents
alone were at stake, but as it affected the rights of
'the British People generally. His motion would de.
tide whether, at contested Elections for Members to
sit in that House, Magistrates could call in the mili-
tary? and whether, in flue, these Elections were to
be decided at the point of the bayonet? Dining
last Session, his constituents presented a Petition to
the House, in which they complained of the illegal
conduct of three Magistrates of the county of Cum-
berland, who, at a time when they were peaceably
assembled in order to carry on the election of a
Member for the tits• of Carlisle, introduced two
companies of soldiers, against law, and against the
rights of the Electors. The Petitioners prayed the
House to be protected against a repetition of such
attacks, but owing to the painful subjec► upon which
thehouse was then engaged, it was not taken into
consideration during that Session. A Noble Lord
(the Member for Westmoreland), after wards asserted
that the allegations in this Petition were untrue; but
that assertion must have been made from hearsay,
the Noble Lord not being on the spot, and he (Mr.
James) having taken great pains to ascertain the
truth of all the allegations in the Petition. The facts
of the case were shortly these :—Previous to the last
Election for Carlisle, on account of some circum-
stances which it was not necessary to explain, the
canvass was unusually long. Party feeling prevailed
then, as it ever will in such places as Carlisle; but,
on this occasion, it rose rather higher than before.
Sir Philip Musgrave (now Me nber for Petersfield)
and he (Mr. James) were the Candidates. The Elec-
tion was opened at the Town-hall, and on the 24th
of My, at noun, polling commenced. As the first
'tally was coming up to the poll, some scuffle ensued
(not unusual in these cases), and Sir Philip Mus-
grave's agents immediately made this a pretence for
going to the Mayor, and requiring the interference
of the military. Now, it Might be asked, why the
military were there at all? He himself was sur-
prised at it ; for he found in Blackstone, that during
an Election, the military ought to be removed from
the place one day preceding the Election, and not
suffered to return until one day after it was over.
However, the military were there, but the Mayor re-
fused to employ them, telling the agents of Sir Philip
Musgrave, that if they apprehended any impediment
at all in their way to the hustings, he himself would
go at their head. There was, however, no occasion
for the interference of the Mayor. lie (Mr. James)
contended, therefore, that the Magistrates were not
justified in calling in the military ; for as a riot, if it
happened, -would void the Election, so there was no
occasion for having recourse to this unconstitutional
mode of suppressing it. Things continued in this
way until half-past two o'clock, and then, without a
shadow of pretence, )pr. Lowry, a Magistrate and
Doctor in Divinity, caused the Riot Act to be read,
without giving the Mayor any intimation of the step
which he was going to take. The Magistrate re-
ceived no interruption whilst he was reading the Act.
In three-quarters of an hour after the streets were
cleared—not by military, but by a heavy shower of
rain ; but, re-assembling in a quarter of an hour af-
terwards, Mr. Foster, the other Magistrate, under
pretence that he apprehended a riot, called out two
companies of soldiers. He was sure the Officer,
whose duty it was to attend, must have felt his situa-
tion most painful; and he asked, could anything be
more degrading to the character of the soldier, or
insulting to the people than such wanton conduct?
and he was sure, if the House passed it over, it would
be one of the worst omens of the times in which we
live. .As he (Mr. James) and his friends were pre-
paring to leave the Town-hall, they saw the soldiers
loading their muskets with ball-cartridges, which, he
contended, was also against law; for though the Riot

Act sancticuted making arrests, it never would sanc-
tion that the soldiers were to slay the people—(Hear,
heart. It' was a base trick to set aside by intimida-
tion and'elolence his (Mr. James's) election, which
they coutd not do by fair means. The Honourable
Member then mentioned that a joiner, named Criss-
bie, was taken up by Mr. Foster, for a pretended as-
sault on Dr. Hesham, the other Magistrate, and that
this man lay in prison from the 24th of May to the
24th of August, when he was at length liberated,
without any process being commenced against him
—(Hear): The Honourable Member, after some
more remarks in reprobation of the conduct of the
Magistrates in calling in the military, in conse-
quence, he contended, of the new system growing
up of governing by the sword, disclaimed anything
like personal feelings on the subject. He had no
animosity to the Magistrates because they supported
his opponent, and it was as a Member of Parlia-
ment he brought this subject before the House. He
concluded by moving, that the Petition of certain
Freemen of the City of Carlislto,, signed in May last,
and presented to this House on the 28th of June,
complaining of the interference of the Military at an
Election, should be now entered as read, and that
the same should be referred to a Committee of Pri-
vileges, to report their opinions thereon to the House.
Sir PHILIP MUSGIIAVE, in a very indistinct
tone of voice, addressed the House at some length.
He apologized for the interference of the military,
by assuring the House that it came within his own
knowledge, that the Civil Power, during part of the
Election, were inadequate to preserve the peace in the
Town Hall, and that the authority of the Mayor was
treated with total contempt. When the tallies of
voters were going out of the Hall, they were most
violently assaulted, knocked down, and ill-used by
the opposite patty ; so that it became absolutely ne-
cessary to procure the Civil Power some aid. His
voters, in fact, became indisposed to come up, and
avowed they were afraid to come up to the poll.—
Under such circumstances, there was no mom to he-
sitate as to the conduct he %Vas obliged to pursue to
obtain a clear approach to the hustings.
SirJAMES 'MACKINTOSH said, that whether it
was owing to the disadvantageous situation in which
he was seated, or to his sense of hearing not being
sufficiently acute, much of the able and luminous
statement of the Honourable. Baronet had been lost
upon. him. He had heard enough, however, to in-
form him, that if the mode which the Hon. Baronet
advocated in the case of the Carlisle Election were to
be adopted in all cases, we must in future introduce
the military upon those occasions, and repeal the law
prohibiting their exclusion—(!-tear).—The doctrine
of the lion. Baronet went to transfer the protection
'of Elections from the Civil Power to the Military ;
and it was for the House to consider whether such an
iinprovement as this was desirable. The introduction
of a body of soldiers was not only hostile to the prin-
ciples of the Constitution, but in direct opposition to
the clause which made an exception in favour of cas-
tles and fortresses. He thought, from the case which
had been submitted to the House in so clear and cir-
cumstantial a manner, that they were bound to in-
quire whether the Magistrates, by their conduct, had
not been guilty of a violent outrage upon the free-
dom of election?—(C'lseers).

Lord CASTI.EItEA6II was at a loss to know
what the direct object of the motion was, but he sup-
posed it was to have the parties brought to be exa-
mined at the Bar, and then to deal with them as cir-
cumstances might require. From all he could collect
on-the subject, General Byng had given exiet orders
to the troops not to appear in Carlisle during the
Election, except in aid of the Civil Power; and the
Officer in command had strictly obeyed those orders.
The House, however, would bear in mind, that the
British law authorized the calling in of a military
force when the Civil Power was found insufficient to
,keep the peace. Upon the occasion in question, the
military had been called in only on the requisition of
three Magistrates; and when they afterwards wished
to have the Cavalry brought back into the town, the
Officer refused to comply, unless with the consent of
the Mayor, who, no doubt, from proper considera-
tions, declined giving it. It appeared that, after the
whole of the polling was over, two companies of foot
had been brought in to quell a riot, which he un-
derstood was attended with great violence.—[Mr.
JAL ES...—" I can assure the Noble Lord there was no
rioting whatever"—Cheers].—There might, perhaps,
be in this case a question of privilege, but he did not
see how a question of law could be raised upon it.—
The Magistrates might have acted under an errone-
ous judgment, but certainly not with an evil inten-
tion. If their object was to interfere with the freedom
of election, why had they called in the military after
the polling was over?—(Cries of No, no, it was not
over).— He did not see that there existed any suffi-
cient grounds for bringing persons all the way from
Carlisle to the Bar of that House ; and he certainly
thought the House was not the best Jury in the world
to try all the facts of the case.
Lord LOWTHER maintained that there never
had been a more violent riot at any Election than
that which took place at Carlisle. The Noble Lord
concluded by moving the previous question as an
amendment.
Mr. CURWEN supported the original motion,
and commended the motives which had actuated his
Vonourable Friend in bringing it forward. There
was not even the semblance of a riot to warrant the
interference of the military. The only circumstance
that could countenance the idea of a riot, was, that
an individual had the boldness to ask one of the MA.,
gistrates if the Riot Act had been read? For this
offence he was committed, and when it was found
that no proceedings could be taken against him, he
was told to walk out of prison.
Mr. WYNN observed, that the House could not
be too jealous of the constitutional freedom of Elec-
tion. The mere appearance of a body of soldiers
during an Election was a violation of law, which
could not be tolerated, unless where urgent necessity
required it.
Air. BECKET insisted that the military bad not
appeared till the poll was closed.
Mr. JAMES.—" I can assure the Right Honour-
able Gentleman that the poll was not closed."
Mr. BECKET proceeded.—The Petition stated,
that the military appeared at four o'clock. If the
Magistrates acted wrong, they acted on their own
responsibility, and could be made accountable for
their conduct. He was surprised to hear it asserted.
i that there were no appeara*e of a riot. He con-

tended that there were the strongest aplearaer,
The Magistrates read the Riot Act three se„,.---;
times; and if the rioters did not afterwards di 5,,.
how could it be thought culpable that the tr:l';
had been called in ? The proper way would ii, !„
the present case, if it was taken up by the Hie„; :
have the particulars detailed in a Petition, the ;,;",:
of which should be examined in a Select Committer
up stairs. With respect to the Magistrates, he ,-‘',"
Becket) thought the Court of King's Bench „,•:-rr.
only place where their conduct ought to be (0,,..7
gated. The subject of this motion was somp„,,c7
stale, and he saw no advantagi in brinr.i -‘
6 ng it egati
forward—( Hear).
Mr. CALCRAFT, with much warmth, depreearg
the sentiments he had heard from the Right I'm--
Gentleman who had just sat down. He was ememdr
sorry to find that there was in that House any one*
lost to a due sense of the freedom of Election, vs lee
to a proper regard for the best principles op,heco,,
stitution, as to deliver such sentiments. 'tom Rid
Hon. Gentleman called the subject stale—yes, si:•'
because, forsooth, it, was not very pleasing to his eil
—( Cheers ).—What did the Right Hon. Gansket•
mean by talking of common law and the Court r
King's Bench ? Was that the proper way foe the
House to redress an injury done to its 4earest right,
by the interference of the Military at Election;_
(Loud cheers).—He regretted exceedingly that at
man holding the sentiments of the Right Hon. Gen,.
tleman should have a place in that House, and le
still more regretted that he should have an official
situation in the country—(Repeated cheers). He roily
believed, that if the Right Hon. Gentleman had (1,,
dared those sentiments beforehand, he never mead
have got a seat in the B:itish House of Commons;
nor would he have got the office he now held—(ll,4,.
Rear).—The night Hon. Gentleman needed not to
have told the House that the Magi rates acted as
their own responsibility : the House was aware efir,
and knew also that they must be answerable at the
Bar for the events that had taken place. He (Mc
Calcraft) did not stand there to say whethop the oi,
gistrates were or were not justified by the necessity
isf the case in having recourse to the military power;
but this he would say, that the house was Windt,
inquire into all the circumstances. Did the light
Hon. Gentleman, when he spoke as he had done,beut
the words of that revered man Mr. Speaker Oasloe,
as referred to by an Hon. Member ? The fair pre.
sumption was in the first instance, that the Magic
trates had acted contrary to law, however they might
afterwards stand acquitted from particelar circum-
stances. He thought that a Committee of Priviegei
was the correct mode, but if a Select Committee war I
thought preferable, then let it be adopted. At any.
rate, he trusted that when it was seen that the Mili-
tary had been introduced at an Election, no sophistry
or common-law pleading of a Judge-Advocate would
induce the House of Commons to relinquish tae of
their dearest privileges— ( Hear, hear, hear).
Mr. BEN N Etfaitaid, that the Noble Lord opposite
had declared that be had never known a mama-
lignant riot. He (Mr. Bennett) had. It was at the
election of the Noble Lord himself, when the Noble
Lord, or his advocates, thought fit to introduce the
Captain of a slave ship from Liverpool, at the head
of a band of bludgeon-men ! The same set wee
afterwards at Carlisle, so that it woald appear they
were in the constant pay of the Noble Lord. They
had, however, been soundly drubbed, and he (Mr.
Bennett) had seen the spolia opima, consisting of a
number of great cudgels.
Lord LO s% THE It begged to be allowed to sty a
few words, in consequence of what had fallen frog
the Hon. Gentleman. He allowed that there was a
riot on the occasion alluded to ; but it was occasiood
by an attack made on the persons whom his (Lai
Lowther's) friends provided for the purpose of keep
ing the peace, and who were sworn in as special coo.
stables. He did not see why any objection should la
made to the presence of an individual at that Elec-
tion, because he had formerly been the Captaia of a
merchant—perhaps of a slave ship. The Honourable
Gentleman might as well say, that the descadans
of slave dealers had no right to sit in that Hoak a
which event, the discussion that had just ocoural
would have lost one of those Honourable Gentlest*
who had taken a part in it--(Cries (If" Orskr,ordar
" Spoke, spoke !" 44 Chair, chair 0.
The SPEAK ER interposed, observing, tbattiank
it was irregular that such a discussion should belga'
longed, still it was but fair that the Hats Asia
allow the Noble Lord a full opportunity of mho
tion, as they had permitted the Hon. Memberie
Shrewsbury (Mr. Bennett) to advert to a salilst
which had no reference to the case before the Holz
Lord LOWTHER then said, that the Militaryisa
come within a few miles of Appleby at the last West•
moreland Election ; and as to the circumcises
which had occurred, they were not of a nature Alia
his opponent (Mr. Brougham) thought wadi
being brought before the House.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that as there .
appeared to be a doubt whether the Military be
been called on before or after the poll was ores, g
,_
should acquiesce in the proposition for inquiry Fa
himself, he had understood that the soldiers mg
their appearance in the evening ; but as a doubt es:
isted, it ought to go in favour of investigatioa
Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose, amidst load flit-
" Question!" and stated, that there were no tour
seven affidavits, to shew that the most daring 111°
had taken place for some days, and that, in cf".m.;
quence, it was found imperatively necessary t°, n,
in the Military. The three Magistrates were toot'
anxious to have the subject investigated, in "du
cool
vindicate their conduct. The circumstances
plained of took place on the nth of May,-yer
had been said before respecting it, though the, It
was sitting at the time. As to the Petition, nr.,.,
been credibly informed, that many who had pa! g`"
__.
names to it did not know what they were sisning-
The motion was then agreed to, and a Comaang
appointed accordingly.
PRICE AND WEIGHT OF BREAD.
cal
The Honourable E. HARBORD, in rising t:
the attention of the House to the present state ftb,.
law for regulating the manufacture and Plea:cf'
regretted that the subject had not fallen ant...,
and more experienced hands. It must be well
to all who heard him, that two-thirds of the buy 2.7
population lived entirely upon bread; they eaosigr,
of course, of the labouring classes, and wets tats
to the special care and protection of the Leg'sgw
Parliament was, in his opinion, botad to gitbklh.-

I

they were supplied with bread at a fair price, of good
quality, and, above all, at a just measure or weight.
This, be was sorry to say, was not at present the
we; the law did not in, fact perform what it pro-
mised, but suspended its caution in the very provi-
sion where it was most requisite. He did not mean
to go through the history of those various Statutes
which had succeeded each other in relation to the
size of Bread since the reign of Henry HI. and
daring a period of 550 years. The House would, he
was sure, excuse him for declining this labour, and
for limiting his attention to the last Act which had
passed on this subject. It would be sufficient for his
perpOSe to point out the defects of the law as it now
txisted ; many might differ as to the remedy, and
sonic might think that it would be better not to le-
gislate at all respecting it. He himself intended to
move for the repeal of a part of the 59t11 of Geo. 111.
T. 36.--a part containing a clause which enacted that
all cases of complaint against bakers, the torn-
/plaint should be made within 24 hours after the
Dread was made, and should be supported before the
Magistrate by one or two disinterested witnesses. It
was manifest that the onus probandi was here laid
.upon the wrong party, and that difficulties were
iere cast in the way of the poor, who were most ea-
rned, and !specially in the country, to frauds of this
description, which it must be almost impossible for
them to surmouat. The labouring poor in the coun-
try often bought their bread on :t Saturday, and em-
ployed theifehildren for that purpose. A deficiency
on its weight might not therefore be discovered till
Monday, when the time for receiving the complaint
was gone ►y. In fact, he believed that in the County
of Norfolk, not one conviction had yet taken place
under this Statute, although a very short time before
it passed, there had been forty before one Magis-
trate. He understood that in the County of Dorset
similar effects had followed, and one Magistrate had
stated to him that be was averse to receiving com-
plaints, from a fear of making the bakers acquainted
with die actual state of the law. In the .County of
Stafford the same inconvenience was generally felt ;
and be should, therefore, now move for the appoint-
ment of a Select Committee to consider of the Act
for Regulating the Sale of Bread.
Mr. LITTLETON observed, that he had heard
many complaints of the futility of the law in its pre-
sent state. lie was inclined to think that unrestricted
competition would afford the Public greater security
than any legislative enactment ; hut was of opinion
at the same time, that there should either be an en-
the repeal of the law, or that bread should in future'
be sold by weight.
Sir C. BURRELL observed, that the circumstance
of the quartern loaf being now sold to the Public at.
10d. whilst fine wheat was at 1.34 a load, could only
be ascribed to a combination amongst the bakers.
Alderman C. SMITH observed, 'that wheat being
at 1:14 per load, the quartern loaf might be sold at
10.—The motion was then agreed to, and a Com-
snittee appointed.

ARMY ESTIMATES.
On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Re-
port of the Army Estimates
Mr. BERNAL complained that the Guards should
be used at the British Museum, the Docks, and other
places. A guard of one hundred men dispersed over
the Metropolis, required a main guard of 400 men.
He wished to see the Guards reduced from 7,000 to
4,000 men. He wished to see the Sovereign at-
tended by a proper proportion of solitary; but his
wish also was to have as much reduction of the bur-
thens of the Peopleaw could be.

&r H. HARDINGE said, that in point of expense
the Guards were only about £2OO a-year more •ex
pense to the Public than the same proportion in bat-
talions of the line.

Mr. LOCKHART said, it was necessary for the
House to examine the resources of the cruntry before
voting such a number of men for the Army. They
ought to have an account of the resources of the
country at the beginning of a Session, before voting
such large bodies of men, without knowing how they
were to be paid for. Their present mode orproceed-
Mg was a sort of _