Star.
London, England, 1819-01-26 00:00:00

CONVICT UIIIPS.

Mr. BENNET stated, that he held in his hand
Petition from Dr. O'Halklun complaining of cruelty
in the treatment which he had experienced duringl-A
imprisonment, both before and after his trial, and
more particularly of his sufferings on board the trara-
port in which he had been placed in o; der to be coa-
veyed to Sew South \Vales. The Honourable Ali
her observed, that the Public expected that ten.
reason should be given for the infliction of
ment so disproportionate to the (d..nce of which
unfortunate m.m had been convicted. It was
he was well aware, that the character of Dr. Ola'
loran was very questionable ; but if he had count'
ted more serious offences, he should have
brought to trial for them. Ile had seen him, and
appeared to be a man of decent deportnrest, certaii_.
of considerable literary acquirements, much adraac-
' es! in life, and with a wife and family. Accen:ing
to the representations of this Petition, he had bees
removed from prison and put on board the Baring
transport in a tit of severe sickness. He was takes
into a small cabin, where he was left 'without n-
rishment or assistance of any kind for nineteen I:cars,
when a small supply of food was brought to bun.—
lie was afterwards thrown, with 19 others, into a
sort of hold or dungeon ; u hick he Ir. I;ennet) bad
himself measured, and which was osactly twelve.
tqaare—(hear, /sears. The cribs were six feet and
'half vide by five feet and a half in length, and
each of these were six human beings stowed, for
purpose of taking t).eir rest. The consequence
that the most disgusting scenes' ook place, and
abtlirinable and shameful vice was of too free{
occurrence. Ur. Vilalk ran had himself been a
ness, and had iendered his evidence on the
He understood tl.ct"Nli. Capper had been sent
to inquire into the matter, and he must have
that the statement was true. Ile himself had gi
down alone ; he had beheld from '2OO to 300 hair
beings stowed into these cribs, and never should
forget the scene. Loathsome filth and disease
presented on every side. Did not -these rta
beings tell him, that after they first sailed (for
ship had been put back) a stream-of filth
from sea sickness was constantly pouring
the uppermost on those who were stowed below
If the regulations adopted on board of ships
ed in the Slave Trade were compared to those
white slave ship—(hear, hear)—the former -
found decidedly the more humane. In
a space of a foot and a half was allotted
gro ; but only one foot was allowed
slave. They would, no doubt, on the present
sion, be told of the great humanity of th-
the head of this department—(/oar. hem
customary whenever an attack was made
part of his conduct ; but when the House
the simple account of the state of that
sailed, for the truth of which he would
self, he hoped they would not be satis,
.proper inquiries were made. He would
with only one word more. The ship ;all
sailed last year with 200 convicts, lost
rbetore she arrived at the place of her
He did not make these statements for
of finding fault ; but where the penalties ,
inflicted, it was desirable that the sufferer
perience every alleviation of his misery •
inity could dictate.
Mr. BRAGGE RATHURST would
the character of his Noble Friend (Lord .
for humanity, as the llonourable Gentlema)
ticipated; but he would remind the Hous.
duous duties which that person had to perform.
did not censure the Honourable Gentlenr
zeal which he manifested in visiting
hear); but he regretted that in these vi
nourable Gentleman lent himself to the reports
sons who were unworthy of credit. It wax
this case excited astonishment throughotr
kingdom; but if the Honourable Gentl,
quired into the character and conduct of
loran, he would have found that he was
ject of Royal mercy. Dr. O'Halloran '
and relatives who filled respectable sin
on their account it was thought prudent
into too minute inquiries. Did not the
Gentleman know, that if proof had been
the forgery of the frank, other forp,eii
brought to light? for the forged tram
forged recommendations in favour of hint
person to whom the letter was addressed.
firmed, therefore, that the Honourable
lhad stated the case fallaciously, when
the punishment inflicted on that man was
crime of which he was convicted, but for
He said, therefore, there was no reason far the
visors of the Crown VP recommend this Man

it inter:;;,ram th
31 arch rc. y, a
justice ia • I
sitting a que,, 'ch
Mr. Canning) qu
t only to the
set
I, but to :he •e
to knew...ie.
respecting tie d
to C0'12226. aga
the coadna
Govern°, of a su
,tish arms?. wh
Tr.,11 hu
ieneral Hislop, •
that it Ir;ic, was
the 1-10•;..e. sp • all
)n the ;17,15.4;
c
;nay devire'ri sea
iat unless stew th
!n.of Sir Tnns. ca
sr the vt.tt 01
ought form-I
lad- no dispoe. 4h,
esy to the
bsertrationh-.:,1 Pas
us light. I':,. _ear,
:the Horace ad ,ca•
possersed
!onnected trig tin
He did nrt • e
Factory to :he on.
ant was no: a lov
any discusses s r
ie
ft c
I in his hand 2 is t
fling °I cruelty 's
nced during 1;4 *thst
r his ttial, 1:14 n,
mard the tars- vs•o
tides to be ma. Mr,
%curable Mem. sel
cted that some pre
cm of a.pnnic , ery
of which s
It was r.,4, ock
r of Dr. 011.7 e.. d b
to had eotniti:. . a
aid have beet 11
en him, and to k
:nkesn, certainly 111
much advaac.
ly. Accer.:ing an I
a, he had been w:
and the Baring the
He was takes ere
t without nos. :ken
nineteen I:exs, 1,1 4
Illeht to him.— .ip
others, into a
Ir. I;ennet) had hell
ictly twelve fan at o
e :ix feet and a age
length, and in bit
stowed, for the 0.1
insegnerice -.vas I
placc., and /2 .
of too fterrrit • sse
iself been a wit- ',llll
on the saSiect. ..ui
been sent d'ovc: tt
must have sun hie
aself had p.ae m
) to 300 hamcn ith
:ever should he 1 p
id disease were ou
itese miserable isn
sailed (for the .gh
filth proceeding .t
ring down front Ili
owed below'— ir.
if ships env lo- a f
to those of the igh
armor would be leas
In slave shiFs, •be
.ted to each tie- tai
ed to the white . ;
he present OCC3-
of the person at al I
hear)--as w Ps
s made en any
[case conside. C 2
hat ship as • me
aid pledge him co
tied till •c
uld detain thee unts
p wit' ad
lost 40 of the
tr destination
for the pleas atc
.ties of law we • 'd
[Fere' should es
ry which hum e $
".
aid not eulogy te,
lord Sidmrst. ate
ntleman had a ve
House of the a.
o perform. l het
ntleman for rat:
prisons—( ,g
e visits the I'. .6
he reports of •
It was said • t
sughout all t
mtleman had i I
et of Dr. ' Y
was not a tit e. sra
ran had child:
e. situations : " hay
dent not to en nc
the Honour'' I
been brought - to,
t
nLidgea frankrtressed.
shmeseed.:ncv
Gentian
411,t
ittkileClertr::', shgtt
tel
le
feu
hut fur anet.: as
ason for the A
us than to to ; t
tea'

hat lie suffer justly for shis crim
which; should
t to the other subject of the Ho-
Gentleman complained: Whether the law
transports a man be proper or not, was not
iestion: it related only to the manner in which
tenet was carried into execution. He must be
to doubt the correctness of the Honourable
information on this part of the subject.
the greater part of his complaints seemed to,
transportation.—(" No, no!" from
In order to obtain correct information on
subject, the Noble Lord had sent down the per-
no was entrusted with the superintendence of
balks, and who deserved the high character
he possessed. This person had reported, that
impossible the situation represented by Dr.
toran could ever have occurred. The object
O'Halloran and of the Honourable Gentleman
' to be, to present that man front undergoing
ice of the law. He had stated that hisl
wat bad ; but it appeared that this was not
rase—(flear, hear.) He stated this from the
-;ty of a respectable person, who had an oppor-i
..,. of knowing the fact. The Master of the ves-
lie knew, had been instructed to tt eat him with
-ible lenity and attention. The ship was fitted
as vs-cll as ships of that- description ever are—
hem.) As to the comparison drawn by the
Gentleman between transport ships and slave
he could only say, that there was no
.ground
tie comparison. That restraints and privations
assary, every one knew ; but to compare the
,nmodation and discipline adopted in ships em-
vl to transport convicts to those of slave ships,
; rid:culotts. The question was a simple one, as
limed it, namely—Whether Dr. O'Halloran was
cbject to be recommended to the Royal mercy?,
a question he would not rest on the humanity of
N(ble Friend, for that was a practice which, not-
'standing the assertion of the Honourable Gentle-
, had never been resorted to in that House; but
would rest it on the merits of the case.
Mr. SINCLAIR said, that the state of the convict
had not been denied. He said it should be
ressed on the consideration of the House, that
convict sent from this country to Botany Bay
die country at least eighty pounds: After the
jut: treatment of the unhappy convicts, &seri-
by 'the Honourable Gentleman, which had not
denied, he thought it was the bounden duty of
House to take up the subject, and to abolish so
ling and so disgraceful a practice.
The Hon. Mr. CLIVE did not doubt the tweet-
of the statements which the Honourable Gentle-
had made from his own actual observation, and
was ready to admit that he had taken the measure
• apartments accurately enough. He could as-
e House, however, that great care bad • .
. by the Navy Board to provide for the lafet
d comfort of the unfortunate convicts. Of one
which sailed from this country last year with
convicts, only two persons were sick during the
voyage; :old in another instance, only three
of 1i1) had been sick. lie believed that the ave•
number of deaths did not exceed sir out of 100.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH obserred, that the
Important fact stated by his Hon. Friend had
been answered. The Right Hon. Gentleman
the Hon. Cullman of the Navy • Board had
!sad it khotr. reruatk. The state of prisons at
me, which should have been made the subject of
shy long ago, iernained still unnoticed. The ne-
r of alternig and amending the regulations
at proem prevailed in our prisons appeared
a WO:14 recently published—a Work which,
equal elf.quence and fidelity, presented a dread-
picare of misery. But while attention was paid
oar prisons at home, why should not the State
-ships be inquired into The statement of the
. Honourable Gentleman respecting the punish-
st of Dr. O'Halloran was not different from that
Lis Honourable Friend. The latter had said that
O'Halloran had been punished for his character,
for his crime, and this was not denied by the
• Hon. Gentleman. He had lately heard with
that the present system of punishment was
be made the subject of inquiry by his Majesty's
• If he could credit information which he
received before he came to the House, he must
that Ministers intended to investigate the Pe-
Laws, and at the same time inquire into the state
; but he was sorry to learn, from the pro-
which had taken place this evening, before
to the House, that this order was to be in-
and that the revision of the Penal Code was to
Uhred as subordinate to the state of Prisons.
Id nsa avoid expressing his regret at this cit-
:e, as it indicated the reluctance of Ministers
any radical alteration in our sanguinary laws.
Mr. LAWSON said, that an Honourable Member
alluded to the enormous expenses which Magi-
. bestowed on land-jails, while no attention was
to sea jails ; but there was a wide difference be-
Ithe two. In the one, the innocent as well as
lilts, were confined in the other, none were
who had not been found guilty and con-
Another parallel had been attempted between
and black slaves ; but our sympathy for the
was excitid, not by the punishment, but by the
- and undeserved suffering of the slave.—
the criminal code should be altered, were they
dte death transportation, transportation some-
less? This were to offer a premium for crime.
•gient by land was a great inconvenience—
much greater must it be by sea ? But if the
of salt water were really injurious, why did
Persoas of the greatest affluence travel far,
wan much inconvenience, to watering-places ?
did Lords of lofty mansions lodge for months
It cabins, in order to enjoy those waters ?—(A
!evi, ruppreseed by manifest disapprooation.)
not been guilty of any crime—(s laugh). Ij
mean when I say so, to say any thing that
. militate against original sin !—(a laugh). I
, however, been guilty of no crime ; and yet in
~,iag over to Calais I have suffered distresses as
glisiihg as those mentioned by the Honourable
-liti..atan—(.l :ales). As to the question of cha-
'l, he recollected that Judge Buller tio.al to say,
Perms of good character deserved the rather to
Laged, because they had the greatvr reason not to
feu their character. If ;fudge; and Quarter Ses-
.had no power to take character into considera-
un appoitioning the degree of punishment, why
tuey it inCaen-a discretion to punish from one
i.
at I CCasizcnient to transportation fur life ? When

was not true.

a person of good character happened Cntortniteii
to be guilty of one of those crimes of which he (Mr.
Lawson) had professed himself innocent, it were hard
if no place could he left to him for repentance with-
out undergoing the punishment of the hardened in
crime. Were convicts to he treated during the voy-
age by sea, as he had himself seen them treated
when removed from one jail to another, they would
feel themselves far happier than paupers at home.—
Ile had heard of their saying, " While others travel
with much expense to themselves, we are to make a

tour at the cxpense of the King." As to the charge
against the Noble Secretary, he believed from the
refutation of former charges, that the present charge

Mr. BUXTON said, he could not censure with
sufficient severity the indiscriminate levity with which
the last speaker had treated this subject. From the
statement of his Honourable Friend, he believed that
the facts as stated were true: if they were, could it
be pretended that they did not call for inquiry ?
( Hear, hear.)—lf they were not true, the reason be-
came more forcible why Gentlemen opposite should
concur with the House in a most grave and serious
inquiry.
Mr. LAWSON, in explanation, stated his object
to have been to shew, that passengers were exposed
to the same miseries on their passage from Dover to
Calais, as the convicts were on their voyage from
Portsmouth to Botany Bay.
Mr. HARVEY said, that he felt that the time of
the House would nit admit of his offering the apo-
logy which he owed for making any observations to
the House. He thought the sophisms of an Hon.
Gentleman opposite were much misapplied. He had
urged as a reason why sea-prisoners should be less
attended to than land-prisoners, that of the former
all were found guilty, while of the latter many were
innocent : but the crimes of convicts were exceed-
ingly various, and some of them were accordingly
transported for a few years, some for life. Upon the
Hon. Gentleman's own principle, therefore, there
ought to be a variety of accommodations suited to
the variety of criminality—(llear,hcar.)—He thought
it proper to make these remarks on a speech which
was conaezted with a strain of jocularity which he
trusted woald counteract its effect.

Mr. F. ROBINSON admitted the gravity and im-
portance of the subject, but he thought it was brought
before the House ui a manner extremely inconveni-
ent and extremely unlikely to lead to any useful
effect. The subject of transportation was deserving
of attention, and four or five years ago it had been
brought before the House and examined before a
Committee. lie did not see why this subject should
not, if the Committee to be moved for by his Noble
rriend should be appointed, come before that Com-
mittee as a matter of course. He therefore ob-
jected to the manner in which the subject was intro-
duced, as neither the most convenient, nbr the most
commodious.

Mr. BENNET begged to be allowed to explain. I
He had never entered into the question of transpor-
tation ; be had merely alluded—whatever feelings
the allusion might. have excited—he had only alluded
to the way in which the convicts were crowded, for
the purpose of transportation. He had heard, some
years ago, of the state of convicts in the hulks ; he
had visited a ship for female convicts, they were not
so crowded ; but ships were now loaded with con-
victs in much the same manner as in former years.
He did not stand up for the character of Dr. O'Hal-
loran, yet he would again say, that he, and others
confined with him, were treated with the most inhu-
man barbarity. This he repeated, notwithstanding
the sneers which persons on the other side threw out
against him, notwithstanding the sneers of a Govern-
ment who never lent assistance to mend bad systems,
or to purge abuses (Hear, bear); who, on the con-
trary, exerted all their power and influence, to retard
and frustrate every attempt to apply a remedy,(Loud
cheers,) and who, he believed on his conscience, had
resolved to take up the subject of prison discipline
for the special purpose of defeating the object of his
Honourable Friend. (Great and continued cheering)
He had said so much, rather beyond the question, as
he mild not receive a blow without feeling resent-
ment. The fact which he was anxious to impress
upon the House was, that nearly 300 convicts were
cooped in cribs, each having the space of six feet
long, and one toot one inch wide. Far be it from
him to enter into discussion with one who thought
such a fact a fit subject I'M-joke—(Hear, hear); who
held that a voyage, in such a condition, for six
months, was to be compared to a trip to Calais. Not-
withstanding that they were guilty, he could not help
feeling for those miserable wretches,Hilear, hear.)
They were capable of feeling pains, as well as the
Honourable Members of that /louse.—(Cheers. The
Right Hon. Gentleman, among all his observations,
h id not at ail spoken of the moral abominations and
turpitude in those convict-ships.
Mr. B. BATHURST explained. The Honourable
Gentleman had said, that Ministers had taken no
measures to improve the prison-discipline, yet he had
given credit to Mr. Capper for the best management
of the hulks. To Mr. Capper that department had
been intrusted by the Noble Secretary. When the
Agent was therefore entitled to credit, was there no
credit due to the head of the Department? Had the
Agent been guilty of neglect, would not the Noble
Secretary have received all the blame?
Mr. BROUGHAM asked if the fact really were
so, that each convict had only one foot one inch in
width to lie on ? This question being repeated,
Mr. B. BATHURST, said, he should be happy to
answer the Honourable Gentleman if he could; but
the Honourable Gentleman saw how the question
came forward upon a Petition from Dr. O'Halloran,
and that he had therefore no means of knowing.
Mr. BROUGHAM asked, whether there was any
thing peculiar in the state of this ship?
Mr. B. BATHURST said, he had no reason to
think otherwise.
Mr. F. DOUGLAS said, it had been stated by an
Honourable Member, that
.the space allotted to the
individual was 3 s feet by 6o feet. That statement is
not denied ; but the Right Honourable Gentleman
has apologised for the manner in which he has been
obliged to answer. This shewed exactly the state of
the Home Department, where iufornnation cannot be
procured even concerning the dreadful facts which
have so deeply affected the House. Honourable tes-
timon), he said, had been borne to the character of
Mr. Capper—he was far from wishiarto detrectirem
it ; but it appears that he was sent drew e in' Aka No-

hie Secretary to inquire into the state of the ships. I
Now, either he did report or he did not—if he did,
why is not the necessary information afforded to Par-
liament P If he has not, he has failed in the per-
formance of his duty. " But this (said Mr. Douglas)
I am not to suppose from the character of the man.
Then he did report ; and we are to take it for granted
because it has not, it cannot be denied, that three
hundred human beings were penned up in the cabin
of this transport, and that to every six of them was
allotted a space of five feet and a h:tlf by six feet
and a half !"—(1-fear, hear)
Sir ISAAC COFFIN reprobated the situation of
the vessel as most scandalous. He said that a man
of ordinary feeling would be ashamed to have his
swine treated as these unhappy convicts have been.
Ile hoped, he said, that Government would imme-
diately see the matter corrected; if the ship should
sail, he would not be surprised to hear that not a singlh
man of them reached the Cape of Good Hope alive.
Mr. BERNAL rose to ask whether the ship in
question had yet sailed, or whether she remained at
anchor in the Downs, or was on any other part of the
English coast? For he conceived this to be a most
important subject. It was one on which he trusted
that the Members of the House would never sleep
until (if it were not too late) they took such proceed
ings as would be most likely to procure the deten-
tion of the vessel--(Hear, heer.)—This was no:party
question. Common humanity required sonic inter-
ference, and he trusted every Member of the house
(if it should appear that the vessel had not yet sailed),
would pause, and not only pause, but act in such
manner as the urgency of the case required.
Mr. CLIVE said, that he believed the ship had
sailed. From the latest accounts received by him, he
was convinced that she must by this time have pro-
ceeded some way upon her voyage. 'As to what had
been said of the treatment of convicts, he had only
this to say, that this ship was fitted out and conducted
in the same manner as every preceding ship—(hcar).
The Petition was then read. It set forth in sub-
stance, that the Petitioner, Lawrence O'Halloran,
Doctor in Divinity, had, for a great number of years,
served his country essentially--but that, in the decline
of life, he had been found guilty of defrauding the
Post-office of ten-pence, and sentenced to seven years
transportation : That he was put put on board the
hulks, amongst the most abandoned characters : That
he discovered two of those depraved wretches com-
mitting an abominable offence—in consequence of
which he wrote to Lord Sidmouth and Mr. Capper.
Nothing, however, was done to bring those criminals
to justice, but, on the contrary, he was reproached
by the master of the convict ship for having made
the discovery. He therefore prayed, that their Ho-
nourable House would take the hardships of his case
into their candid consideration, and act upon his Pe-
tition in such manner as may appear most expedient
to relieve him from his dreadful situation.

Mr. BENNET then rose and gave notice, that he
intended very soon to bring before the House a Mo-
tion which would involve the discussion of the whole
subject of transportation. On account of the several
important notices which had already been given for
early days, he could not now fix the precise time at
which he would bring forward that which he had
mentioned.—The Petition was ordered to be printed.

.3 that lie
advert
gable Ge
. •hich transp
he question:
sentence
,1/4,„•ed to,d
%alernan s
red, the
Oast tr
rt-) Ir
subject,
who was
• hulks, a
,' he pos
ps impo
itloran
~ to be
fentence
a 1 wa§ b.
rite—(l
-ority of
c of knc
be knew
,:ussiblc 1,
"as well
liar. hear.)
lientlel
he CO3
the comp
nccessa
-rommodat
/lecNl to tra
rimed it,
object ti
questiot
tik,ble Fr
carding
had ne
would rel
Mr. SINC
sei had i
• resscd o
y comic
the Coll
.1(11r4 tre
• by 'the 1
denied,
House tx
, king an,
Te Hon.
-3 of the
, had mi
was read
.the apart
the Ho
• en by tiv
3 condor
ip which
t convict
Lie voya
en of 130
rare flambe
Sir .IAI
amt tmpol
been 3
all the H
.L.sti it st
whi
airy lon
mty of
viich at
om a IA
th equal
picurc
t our pris,
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Lght Hon
teat of D,
t his Hon,
O'Hal]
• for his
light Hon
.leamre tti
mad(
kicatters.
kid receiv,
ktieve tha
ml Laws,
SiPrisons
amen
/met', ,inc
He could
worance
admit al
lir. LA
• allude
aces bes
' to sea
the
a guilty
,aed
tel An
I'te and
to was
cnce
'Qr. the
. mike d
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