Star.
London, England, 1820-05-26 00:00:00

.
}:ands. It vas pv.r.g a part of the bounty to foreijil' lions 'of Members, it was the standing Corder of the
consumers. At this time of day the system was most House, that the specification should be made within
absurd, and he was astonished to see it acted upon. 1 fifteen days after the presenting of the Petitions In
Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed,' that the Hon. this instance, however, it turned out that the re
Gentleman's remark might be very just, if the system turned Member was in America; and that therefore
was a new one; but as it had existed for many years, it was -impossible to comply with it sooner. He
:art sudden change in it would be. attended with • should therefore more, " That the personal attend-
gi eat inconvenience. ance of the Member be dispensed with, and that Mr.
Mr. HUME thought that the whole system ought !Green, his Agent, be permitted to give the necessary i
to be inquired into, in order that it. might be seen I specification.'
whether the bounties could not be abolished. All Mr. DENMAN believed that there was no prece-
diet was now wanted in the county of Forfar was, dent for a measure of the nature now proposed. It 1
that the Manufacturers should be put on the same appeared to him of so important a character, that
fo:ain.g with those of Ireland. he thought a Committee ought to be appojated to
Mr. W. PA ItNELL wished to see the whole system deliberate upon it.
'of bounties abolished. - Mr. BATHURST thought that where there was an
Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that in Yorkshire it would impossibility to comply with the requisitions of the
tes. considered a great injustice not to grant bounties orders of the House, it would be defeating justice if •
to the Menufacturers there, so long as they were the tkrders were not relaxed.
•erer ted in Irehind. Mr. TIERNEY said, that the Member should be
.0 • •
The Petition was ordered to be printed. called on for his qualification at the time of the Elec-
REPRESENTATION IN SCOTLAND. tion, and if he had not been called on at that time, it
Lord ARCIHBALD HANIILTON rose to make was provided that the specification should be given
the motion :of which he had given notice; and as in at a certain time. Was then the House to fiass
he understood that no objection was intended to be by the enactments of the Legislature thus lightly?
made to it, he should content himself with merely Was it not possible that deceptions of -a gross nature
stating what the document was which he wanted. It might be attempted ? For instance, in the very re-
v.•as nothing mop 2 than that list of freeholders in Scot- turn of this Member, it was stated that he resided at
land which had been annually laid before the House. Hyde Park Corner. He wished to give no peremp-
lt was not generally known to that House what tory opinion upon the matter, but he thought it de-
were the right : of voting ie Scotland. The right served the most deliberate consideration of the House.
'chiefly depended upon the Statute. The qualifica- Mr. COURTENAY said, the state of the case was
tions therethre Were not known; but he wanted to this—an individual was elected tat serve in Perlia-
see the taireber of voters by a return to that House. ment for the Borough of Aldhorough—the electors
lie wished to state that the qualifications did not at did Lot call upon him for his qualification—they
all depend on property ; and that many of the voters had a tight to do so, and if none %%me produced they
lad no property. His object in moving for the paper could not elect him. But he was called upon after-
containing the number et voters, was to spew how wards to supply this information within a stated time,
completely detective the system of voting was in and with this requisition it was impossible he could
Scotland at this time. In whatever proposition he comply. But the Right Hon. Gentleman had said,
should make hereafter to the House on this subject, that the house was called` upon to dispense with an
it was not his intention in the slightest degree to dis- Act of Parliament.. This was not the case. The
tests existing rights, but merely to extend the right measure alluded to was a mere resolution of the
of voting to persons of property. lle concluded House. It was true that a specification of qualifi-
with moving, " That there be laid bele' e the House a cations was directed to be given. in by statute, but
copy of the roll of freeholders in each County in then the form of it, and the time allowed for deli-
eeeoland, es last made up." vexing it, were settled merely by a resolution of the
Lord cAs7.I.EItEAGH said be had no objection House. All that the motion would effect was, that
to the production of the paper in question. It would the ageet of the Member might be permitted to give.
be a defer rut thing v. hen a discutsion should take it in instead of the Member himself.
place 0:1 any future measure the fCtible Lord might Mr. ABERCROMBIE said, if the House decided
tuead en :het documeet. upon refusing his Motion they would decide this—
Mr. IlL,‘lr. conceived it would be a matter of that any Member in the situation of Mr. Antrobus,
great imps); taese that the whole question respecting and who was no. in circumstances to comply with the
the dela of voting in Scet'iand bho u I d be bought
'orders of the House would be thereby disqualified.
heroic the ILeise, le order that it might be seen how The re.. 11 question was, would the House permit its
imeeilect the right of voting was there. standing orders to prevail so far as to amount to an
.:sir G. CLERKE did not shirk the inquiry could . undisputed frustration of justice ? The Petition de-
he gone ieto except by an ex:rude:idea of tech indi- meeded a specification of the Member's qualifica-
'd ' • rii-Ual voter, lions. The Petitioner could have it according to the
Mr. ABERCROMBIE expressed Iris conviction, arrangement of the Hon. Member who made the Mo-
that it was not the intentiou of his Nuale Friend to don, Ile (Mr. Abercrombie) thoughtounder all the
encroach in any degree on the right possessed by the circumstances, that the House would act most pru-
eresent voters, lie protested aeainst an opinion dently to postpone the discussion of the Petition to
es litch he feared might be entertained in dint House. next Session of Parliament. If he (the Petitioner) did
It 'Meta be thought by marry, who. were ready to not avail himself of the offer of a specification now
oppose any alteration in the existing system of Re- proposed, it would appear that he wanted to use the
presentation in England, that the Representation of standing orders of the House as a means of gaining
Scotland needed no reformation. He conjured those an ma'am advantage.
'Gentlemen who held such an opinion, to consider the Mr. P. MOORE proposed an adjournment of the
moue and extent of the Representation of Scutland• further consideration of the Motion.
They should understand, that the latter was directly. Mr. CALCRAFT observed, that if at the time of
the reverse of the former. The Representation of the Elections a returned Member, upon being asked
England in Counties and Cities, was completely po- (or his qualification, was not able to produce it, the
pular. But in Scotland, the Representation for consequence would be, that the Candidate next in
Counties was exclusively aristocratical. The People number would be seated. But then the House would
had no share in the choiae of Members of Parliament. consider the great advantage which was given to an
In England, the possession of a forty shilling free- absent Member, provided that he was not in a capa-
hold, entitled o. man to vote for Members of Counties; city to comply with the orders of the House. The
whereas, in Scotland, any individual might have an [louse ought to feel great jealousy in the maintenance
iacome of 1:10,000 a year; without the power of of its standing orders, and particularly those which
Toting for County MeMbers, or being capable of being alluded to the qualifications of Members of Parlia-
elected. There might then be very adequate grounds ment. The suggestion co postpone the consideration
ie the opinions of ninny, for opposing any alteration of the Petition to next Session, was a procrastination
in the system of Representation of England; but it of justice, in his opinion, that would amount to a
must be quite apparent to all, that similar objections total denial of it.
could not be to against some alteration in that of Mr. F. ROBINSON said, that when a reasonable
Scotland. The Parliament of Scotland, it should be ground was stated for the dispensation of any of its
remembered, consisted only of one House, in which orders, the House was not backward in agreeing to
the Pesos aloee set ; and the lesser Barons, so far dispense with them. Ile believed that the case stated
from thinking it an honour to have seats in that by the Honourable Member who made the motion,
Hon_;.., always regarded it as a great burden to be was as competent a case as could be urged to-incline
elected to serve there. In short, the Parliament of the House to infringe its resolutions. 1
Scotland was rather an appendage of the Crown than The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
a protection of the rieles red liberties of the People. that he thought it was advisable to adjourn the de-'
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER cau- bate in question—(f/ear, heat).
timed the House against the impressions which tl e Mr. P. MOORE said he had in his hand a Petition,
Honourable and Learned Member seemed desirous stating, that there was no such person as Mr. Antrofi
of establishing upon the House, that because the, bus in existence—(A laugh);—and if there was,l
English system of Representation might be unexcep- that the description of his residence was wrong.
tionable, the reverse of It, as prevailed in Scotland, Mr. ABERCROMBIE would undertake to assure
was therefore to be denounced. The fact was, that the House, that there was an individual of that name
in theory it was quite possible that each, though op- in existence; that if his residence was to be described
polite to the other, might be suitable to the nation by him (Mr. Abercrombie), it would be Hyde Park,
where it existed, and he believed 'that experience and that he knew him now to be in America.
proved the applicability cf both the systems to the Mr. FINES thought it right to remark, that the
two nations respectively. fifteen days allowed by the order of the House would

A MEMBER from utid:r the Gallery congratu-
lated the country on the services which the Noble
Lord (Lord A. Hamilton) had rendered to Scotland.
lie was ready to support any measure which should
:end to remedy the system of Representation now
existing in Scotland, "and which he regarded as a
most disgraceful anomaly. He felt confident that a
reformation of this extraordinary—abuse would do
more towards attaching the Scotch people to the
Government of this Country than any other measure
that could be devised.
Sir IL FERGUSSON thanked his Noble Friend
Ur the intioduction of this measure, which, he was
lefuE.deat, would prove extremely beneficial to the
tountry at large. He thought the caution expressed
by the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer savoured too much of a party spirit.
flat Paper, were then ordered.
BOROUGH OF ALDBOROUGH.
Mr. FYNES called die attention of the House to
the subject of a Petition that had been presented
against the return of Mr. Antrobus for Aldborough.
e said, that this lientleman having_ been duly elect-
ed and returned to Parliament, a Petition was pre-
sented against his return, upon the ground that he
belt! a certain office under the Crown, which dis-
mudifted him limit sitting in the House of Commons.
It appears, that upon Pecasions of this nature' when
a Fetiticts prayed for a specification of the qualifies.

expire that day. .
The SPEAKER said it was true that this was the
last day for receiving the specification. At the same
time, nothing was more easy for the House to do
than to remedy those inconveniences which were im-
posed on themselves. He therefore should suggest,
that the adjournment of a debate was virtually a pro-
longation of the day on which it commenced, that to
whatever length it extended, the parties concerned
were precisely in the same state as at the commence-
ment-Hear, hear).
The further debate on the motion was then fixed
for to-morroW (this day).
BOSTON PETITION.
Mr. T. COURTENAY observed, that the Petition
against the return of Mr. Ellis for Boston, had been
ordered to be taken into consideration on the 6th of
June. He begged to observe, that it was quite im-
possible for this Gentleman to attend on that day.—
He (Mr. Courtenay) believed that the ground of ob-
jection, namely, the holding of a certain office under
the Crown, was a valid objection ; at the same time,
lie was sure the House would attend only to the cir-
cumstance of giving an opportunity to all parties di
an impartial hearing. He then moved, " That the
order for taking the said Petition into consideration'
-on the 6th •of June be discharged, and that the Bth
of July be substituted."
Mr. TIERNEY thought that this was a subject of