Star.
London, England, 1827-05-23 00:00:00

i 'l~

L PARLIAMENT.

'6,41,

HOUSE OF LORDS, MAT 22.
‘Niae.Efsbop of Banana, the Duke of Bauroan, and the Earl of
ALMA/ILS, took the oaths and their seats.
Sir A. Gum., and othersfrom the Commons, brought up me
Corporation Funds MI, and several private Ells, which were read
sliest time. •
Earl STANHOPE presented a Petition from the Landowners
of a Pasith. in, the County of Kent, against any alteration in the
Laws.

•PPIA LI.
The, Esti of ABERDEEN called the attention of
their Lordships to an inconvenience which arose from,
the vie* niosie of administering justice in the {louse..
An appeal fickm one of the Courts in Scotland had
I ttely been heard by one of the Judges acting in the
absence of the Lord Chancellor, who had reverted the
judgment of the inferior Court. but without havilg it
in his pnwer to give the reasons for /,is doing so, as he
was not a Peer. lie ti ust ,d that their Lordships would
see iheimportance of making some regulation by which
this inconvenience, a very great one to suitors at a dis-
tance., who knew not the grounds on which their causes
were disposed of, should. be removed. -
The Earl of ROSSLYN said that this inconvenience
bed long been feit, and must always occur whenever
a Lord Keeper, or any other person not a Peer, ma
sided in. the absence of the Lord Chancellor. In his
uion, the best way of obviating it was to advise his Ma:
• jesty to make Peers of those persons who should so
preside.
The LORD CIIANCELLOR said the existing ar-
rangement, their Lordships would recollect, was not in-
tended to be permanent, but was only to last duripg the
• in

IliOuse would supply Its necessary estension.
Alter a few words from Mr. Hung and Mr. AldermanWtion,
the Petition was ordered to be printed. .
Mr. 11Ud1F, moved for an amended Return of the Number of
Prisoners confined in the King's Bench Prison, since I ttli 5. Ordered.
Sir MP A.RN ELL presented a Petition from the Merchants,
Traders, and others of the City of Dublin, upon the subgett attic
Paper Eurrency.—Ordered to be printed.
Lord MILTON presented Petitions from certain Dissenters of
Great DriMeld, and two other places in the county of York, praying
a repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts • also similar Petition.
from Burlington had'Huddersfield.—Ordered to be printed.
Sir R. VIV I A N presented a Petition from the Coroners of the
county of Cornwall, praying for an increase of their fees and al.
lowances.—Ordered to be printed.
Sir R. WILSON presented a Petition from some of the most
respectable of his Constituents, being Protestant Dissenters, praying
fur the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts. He was proud
to present this Petition, because It came from just and liberal men,
who while they sought to be relieved from their own disqualifica-
dons, advocated the removal of all restrictions whatever upon con-
science in matters of religion. He believed this to be the sentiment
of the great body of Dissenters.
hir. WELLS said, that in the Borough which be represented,
the class to which the Hon. Member alluded, were not generally
favourable to Catholic Emancipation.
Lord MILTON adverted to the Petition which he had pre-
sented from the most remote parts of Yorkshire, anddeclared that.
throughout the whole of that large county, the Protestant Dig.
centers were favourable to the removal of all penalties whatever,
imposed upon the ground of religions distinctions.
Lord NUGENT said that many of his constituent.; were Pro.
had before them as a
in favour of

Protestant Dis.
conscience gene.
were favourable to
freedom of consel.
Catholic Elnan-
, for human ordi.
.4 of conscience. He
_rs who were Most friendly
to emancipation.

...s constituents
spinet Emancipa.

certain Prot's-

brought op,
body of Dissenters,
Emancipation. 'There
Protestant Disseu.
t Noble Lord
_.. alluded, drew.
Dissenting Clergy of
conclusion from
bad been In coin-
drew from the
not averse to
be should read
alluded.—(The
Dissenters i•

. weight and pro-
emancipation).—He
attempted to mine-
'oritakire ?—(Hear).

had an off:::
but the
stated for the
Lets of York-

fallen from the

It still ap.
conclusion from ■

from other

esperlenceo, that
of Kent were

printed.
Petition from the

ird the mur
could occapt
possible-4-
rould be her
House did
not affording
dateable, but
they would
!great body
should en.
plain comr
bankrurcy
like lunacy,
te Court of
iciness, whe-
h4d mure
for the pto-
pan of the
person. His
be brought
could resolve
House, for
the 13th of
gave to the
lictioa in cases
Ifferent occa.
of theCoutt
was always
Learned Per.
..at could be
respect for that
(ways his opi•
fined, that the
took away

is and legal
conferred upon the
Lord, feel-
'as oppressed,
partite bank-
,Aim If he
in contem-
answer the
be now ad-
mnplaints pf
uently urged,
in that Court,'
taken to ill.
I were often
la promises
ing but kind
presided in
form, but he
tcy. He felt
•ould do the
I. Na man
,tch than the
:ce-Chancel-
'ant, the buii-
Phe three
to Coon of

,ice-Chancellor't Cowl, sad the Rolls
and, willing. to do their duty. 100 s
something more was necessary. TO
. of Chancery did not commence with
They misted long before his time. S.
similar evils were complained of, and
eminent solicitor, with the concurrence
most able of the profession, suggested a
'Marlow, but it was never acte I upon.
Three years aeo a Commission was appointed to insifre,
into the subject, and in conformity with their repo( t, a'
Bill *as brought in last Session which was to be the
panacea for every evil. It being then late in the Ses-
sion, the matter was given up, and resumed in the
pteseht Session, by Lord Ly,ndlturst. He brought in
another Bill that was to cute everything. Where was
that Bill? What had become of it? It might be on
the table. Could any person shew it to him k was
such a Bill that no man date touch it, and he under-
stood the result of this Commission was never to see
the light again. ,Upon a former occasion he had the
good fortune of having the support of his Right Hon.
Friend(Mr. Canning) upon thisvery subject.OnMarch 11,
182$, the question then being the appointment of a
Vice Chancellor, his. Right Hon. Friend observed, that
if the Chancellor was to be stripped of any branch of his
labours, the part least objectionable to be withdrawn
from the jurisdiction of the Court was Bankruptcy, that
having been superadded by Statute to the Great Seal.
Such was the opinion then expressed by his Right H in.
Friend. and he felt assured that there was no measure
by which the present Administration would sender
themselves more acceptable to the country than'by
taking up this subject. He was borne out in this opi-
nion by the Report of a Special Committee r f the Com-
mon Council of the City of London. (The Hon. Mem-
ber read an extract from the Report, recommending a
Petition to Parliament for the establishment of a sepa-
rate tribuual in cases of Bankruptcy.) Sir Samuel Ro-
rrsilly
explessed a similar opinion in 1812, and said that
he did not consider the Secretary of the Court in Bank-
ruptcy an accountable Officer, that a great part of the
Lord Chancellor's emoluments arose from fees nomi-
nally paid to the Secretary, but for which be was at.
countable to the Chancellor. The Committee which
sat upon that occasion declared it highly objectionable
that a high Law Officer should derive any part of his
salary from fees nominally not payable to him ; be-
cause if there should arise any ground of complaint
against the Secretary, that complaint must cowl
before the Judge . himself, into whose hands the
fees came. The exis'ence in the Court of Chancery of
a patentee place that brought in from 6,0001. to
12,0001. a year, which was conferred by Lord Thutlow
on an infant (he did not know whether it was now held
by the son of the late Chancellor), and the person h 0144
ing which might perhaps never have been in Chancery
lane, was itself a proof of the necessity of some altera-
tion. Such things should be done away with. The lees'
last year, in Bankruptcy alone, amounted to 17,0001.
The Commissioners in their Report were not favourable
to a separation of bankruptcy trom the jurisdiction of
the Great Seal, but they gave no satisfactory reasons
for it. They did not pretend to deny that it was a
source of great interruption, that it pressed more than
aay thing else on the Court, that it occupied more
than three parts of the Chancellor'. time. (Here the
Honourable Member referred to the opinions of Mr.
Hamilton, Mr. Woodcock, Mr. Montague, and others,
in favour of separating the jurisdiction in bankruptcy
from the Court of Chancery.) Mr. Shadwell in his ex-
, amivation said, that even three angels would not be
able to get through the business of Chancery. If a se-
parate jurisdiction were established, there could be no
difficallty in finding a person capable of discharging
the business in bankruptcy. Suppose that his time
should not be wholly occupied, he might be otherwise
beneficially employed either in hearing appeals in the
House of Lords or elsewhere. The situation of appeals
in the House of Lords was I subject for set ions consi-
dera ion. They had often heard that no decree of Lord
Eldon had been reversed there. But the fact was, that,,
Lord Eldon himself was the person who heard the cause
again, with the assistance sometimes of Lord Redesclale,
a Bishop, and one of the Lords of the Bedchamber.—
They were told that in future the business in appeals
would be disposed of more expeditiously in the
House of Lords by the assistance of two other
Judges. Why trot have a Judge expressly for the pur-
pose? He Might be employed also in the Cockpit,
where great and heavy complaints were made for the
want of proper Judges. The alteration he now sug-
gested in the jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery *as
called for by the country, and he never should give it
up while he felt confident that right, and the voice of
the country was with him. Government should come
forward and relieve an individual like himself Irom the
necessity of venturing too far upon a subject of such
importance as thy. The Hon. Member concluded by
moving. "That the House do resolve itself into a Corn.
mitten of the whole House, for the purpose of taking
into consideration the 13th of Elizabeth and subsequent
Acts, giving to the Lord High Chancellor of England
the jurisdiction in Bankruptcy."
Mr. HUME seconded the motion.

The ATTORNEY.GENERAL then rose, and said,
he would not be doing justice to his feline upon the
occasion, if be did not admit that his Honourable Friend
was an able and zealous advocate in a useful cause.—
He certainly had not the g.sd fortune to agree with
his Honourable Friend, iu the views which he had
taken ; but he, nevertheless, did think, that the public
would be benefitted by his Honourable Friend's exer-
lions, although the benefit, he believed, would not be
of the exact nature which his Honourable Friend pro-
posed. With respect to,the motion of his Hon. Friend,
it should have his cordial support, if he could bring
himseT to see, that its being agreed to by the House,
would be productive of any one good purpose. It did
sot appear that his Hon. Friend had any specific plan
to recommend to the Committee, and that, in itself,
ought, perhaps, to determine for him the course which
he should pursue; but, nevertheless, if it could be de-
monstrated to him that the suggestion of some plan
would necessarily follow from the House se.olving
itself into a Committee, he would look upon that as
affording sufficient grounds for agreeing to the motion ;'
but as he could not, however, anticipate any such re-
sult, he, therefore, thought It his duty to give the mo-
tion his decided opposition. The reasons he would bring
for* ard, in answer to what had fallen from his Hon.
Friend should be very short. He assured the House that he
would not trespass long upon their attention. Nis facts
arkii argurneuts lay ,witlyin amy tir(sXciw compass. In
the first place he would obsess., that it always had been
his opinion that they ought not to make 'places to fit
men, but that, nn the contrary, they should endeavour
to find men whoye 'slums and whose powers. renJered
them fit for the places alto id 7 m exittence. Ilts

,
eedom
6 -
1 1..
'.
,1
br-f
•
• lemma to cm per messroa., eow• ............, .-- —___ ___ 7 a
-
present Session. With respect to the case in qnestion,
the Chief Baron niche Exchequer who presicjed had be-
stbvied all possible attention upon it whilst discussed at
the bar, and had taken a whole day to consider before Mr. Lord NUGEN'T said that many of his constituents
candidate, declared
ahnird
htetrt
the Catholics. had always, when beton
yisedeterin 'on to vote in
D. W. HARVEY said, however friendly Prete
he gave his judgment. He therefore trusted that the enters might be to the principle of freedom of crouch
Tribunal in Scotland would be satisfied with the re-
versal of the sentence, as the result of the most seriousC pat'
core might be a reason
investigation, the more so as theie was no individual cipation, as they
living better acquainted with the law of Scotland than
the Chief Baron. He staled this in order to remove any
prejudice which might exist against the decision of that "-Mr.
leaned individual. As to the inconvenience itself
arose from the constitution of the House. It had more LlClll—Mear, hear).
• thaw once happened that the Seats had been 1164 in __
Commission, and that tl% Judges had sat for neatly a reit:ice did :nocei necomessanlyr_frollow
zealthat
fortbe yfrsvere fat
1 very
for Lord
their being opposed to Cath
considered Catholics advocates for ha
nonce& which might interfere with freedom of cored
to
believed hme mofigohotosaye,othreat
werethose Dineentreroos whorawerrermitz
BATLEY said, jut there was not one ofP
his c
it who did not demand& pledge from him to stoic against
The Petition was ordered toile printed.
Howie& presented a similar Petition from CVO
cant Dissenters of the County of Northumberland.
~. whole Session to hear Appeals, without being allowed The Question being put that the Petition be brought
explain to express their opinions or ezpl • the grounds of their Mr. JONES said, be represented a large body of
decisions to the House or the parties. The incanve-
nience, therefore, was not a novelty, but had been felt
before. He pledged himself, however, to direct his best
attention to the subject, in order to prevent its con-
tinuance beyond the presenetession. It appeared to him
•
that it could not be done by an order of the House, but
that it would require an Act of the Legislature.
Yorkshire were favourable to Emancipation. roteestli
which he out
Lord MILTON said he did not draw this conch
one instance
The Earl of ABERDEEN said that !lathing was far- sentiments expressed
titer from his intention than to impugn the judgment mane
'of the Chief Baron, to whose profound knowledge and
attention lie bore testimony.
Lord COLCHESTER stated that the situation in
which the House found itself had been noticed in the
ltepott of the Committee on its appellant jurisdiction,
sod that it had been recommended, as the Judges were
allowed in other cases to give their opinions when re-
qnired, that the Speaker for the time bring should be
authorised, though not a Peer, to give I,is opinion on shire
mons On and they were tea man, hostile to Catholic Emancipal
was a
ten avrlygoreat trem
tten ble between etwee;arli admitting
e P
(Milton), from one solitary instance to
the conclusion chac'tbe great body of the Dissenting
only. He distinctly stated that be bad b
munieation with many, and that the inference he drev
by them was, that they were nol
ipation. To illuminate the Hon. Member, be
again the paragraph of the letter to which he before silo
u
paragraph stated that by far the greater number of
Yorkshire, and the most considerable foe .their weigh
petty in the county, were favourable to arum*
should appeal to the House then, whether he attempts
presentotfhceaserrmoirmer
irs of the Dim
.., the Hon.nten
Gentleman Yorkshire
tunitsey of knowing, :Inighwt :or a differnt enopinionee, be
Gentleman had no right to misunderstand what be al
purpose of contradicting the opinion that the Dissente
JUNESfsussatl,e notwithstanding what what had falle
the appeal case before him, as well as the le •
which his judgment was founded. Till this was effected
in a legislative manner, it might be pope/ for the H use solitary Instance.
by an Order to empower the Judge who, presided pro
impore to deliver his opinion and his reasons.
CORM LAWS,
Lord BEXLEY said that, understanding that the
Noble Earl (Lauderdale) would not be able to attend peNo.abedte Lard,
to
him he
aut didancot yet Ind himself illundnated.
Loiirr.dWltEl MILTON.--,
Dissenters k.laard drew his condos
catmint
I had contemn! •
:Nelenebfelletyquite convinced, from cap
however it iniest be in Yorkshire, the Dissenter of
adverse to Emancipation.
TheD Petitions sure read, and ordereclto.be printed.
'I
111
the House for a considerable time, and the inconve-
nience of the delay being greater -than that of his all-
sence, there would he no limiter postponement of the Dissenters
USIIINGI ON presented a similar Petitia
rs of Stradbrooki, Suffolk.—Ordered to be pri
Collin' OF CgAneEltlfs
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR rose to bring forwar
t, - discussion of the New Corn Law, which would ter- tion of which he had given notice. He shoul
' tainly take place next Friday on the question for going the attention of the House as shortly as
1 into a Committee. (Much interrupti sn below the Bar.)• It wou
l: The Scotch Fraudulent Bankrupts Bill went through a Commit-
possible for him to discharge his duty if the i
tee and was reported.—Adjourned.
ii►— not give him their attention. The subject, not
HOUSE OF COMMONS. much scope for eloquence, might not be phi
Mr. W. DUN DAS presented a Petition from Edinburgh io fa- if they gave their attention for a short time, tl
your of the Salmon Fisheries Bah—Referred to the Committee. see that it was one which deeply affected the I
Mr. BIRCH presented a Petition from Nottingham against the
licensing Bill. of the people. In treating this question, he 1
The House went into a Committee, and evidence was heard upon deavour to guide himself by the dictates of p
the Grahame Divorce Bill, which was ordered to be reported to. mon sense. It appeared that, originally, b
' morrow. was not appended to the Great Seal, but, 1'
Mr. HUME said, that as an Appeal was to be made front the
was brought under the jutiscliction of the
Report of the Committee on the Oil Gas Bill, and as a Report was
expected upon the matter front the liaronsof the Exchequer in Scot- Chancery by statute. In all matters of busii
.II land, he should move that the consideration of the Report be Pour then of a Judge or any other person, if he
..ii pond until to.morrow se'unight. than he could do, the best way to provide to
Sir R. Fnaoussno and Mr. Ketotinar objected to the delay. i
After a short conveisation,in which the &macre, Mr. Catcearr, pet discharge of the duty was to get rid of p
i(i: Mr. DIJNDAS, Sir Fa !CNA/I:MS(1U, and Mr. BRIGHT participated,' business, and transfer it to some other per
therotponenteld was agreed to. - motion was the very simplest that could I
Sir R. FERGUSSON presented Petitions from the incorporated before the House. It was, that they shots
lil Masters and Seamen of the Port of Dundee, and Irani certain Incor-
porated bodies in the same place, in favour of the Salmon Fisheries'
Bit —Referred to the Committee's% the Bill.
Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition front certain Dis-
senters meeting in Jewia.stiect, praying the Repeal of the Test and
Corporation Acts.
Mr. GRANT presented a similar Petition from a place in De-
vonshire.
A similar Petition was presented from Salisbury.
Lord F. OSBORNE presented a si,:iilar Petition from a parish
be Cambridgeshire.
Mr. Id A BERLEY presented a similar Petition from Abingdon. into a Committee of the a hole 1
Elizabeth and subsequent Acts, which g;
Lord H
Mr. STANLEY presented similar Petitions from Rochdale and (lest!
eitoekport.—The Petitions were ordered to be printed. themselves
the purpose of taking into consideration tl
High Chancellor of England jut isdictir
of bankruptcy. He had before, upon diffe
skins, brought before the House this subject o
of Chancery, and exposed its delays. He a
met by the assertion, that the Noble and Le,
son who presided in the Court was all that
ed. He eutettained the highest respec
Noble and Leal ned Person; but it was alwa
Mr. tlentuousu presented a Petition troll) the Seamen of
itioi,
of iii n, and of that opinion he still remained
Newcastle, signed by lotto names, praying for the Abut
Impressatent.—Ordered to he printed. . Noble and Learned Lord's want of decision i
s • Mr. J. WOOD presented a Petition from cettain CottunWeayers, much of the benefit which his great talents
of Ashton-ender-Line, in the rummy of Lancaster, praying that a knowledge might otherwise have conferred
f Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the expediency of country. His Sus pine was that the Noble 1
fixing a minimum of wages. The i ion. Member said, that be de.
in g the weight of business with which he was
'[
sired to zee a Committee appointed, because he was Silty it would
relieve the minds of the rslltlOLltri from the erroneous opinions as hod nqt litog before endeavoured to sepa
to the object they sought to obtain. tiltiLtegyhthitelhrne the jurisdiction of the Cot
t 11.
Itlr. PHILLIPS said, he would rake the opportunity of Core. new Administration had it i
reeling some mi.takes which had herb made iti fermenting to the
.4.."." .^ brio .. forward any measures to i
public what had fsl!en from bum a few eights ago. Ile did Mt I- .."‘... ‘s. b
wonder that what they said should sometimes be mistunieritood, purposes lie had in view; he should not b
when he recollected the difficulty which they bad of hearing am- dressing the Hoots! on this subject. COR
ratty what fell from each other. Upon a former occasiou he stated the delays aft Chancety had been Irequel
i upon the authority of a letter from hlaticitest, r, dated the nth of and of .
the expense attending proceedings in
play, that the's% ages of hand-loom weavers had beenlaised twenty
' per cent. for which he had been represented as say
cent per a long time no effebtual step was ti
• but for
cent. Again he li4d been made to say that cotton twist was the vestigste the subject. Promises of reform
only article in which an improvement had taheu place, whereas made, but the result proved how little sac
- ' what he did say was just the tertrar.—Thi: Petition was ordered to were to be relied on. He entertained nothin
be printed. -
feelings towards the Noble Lot d who now 1
•• fist N. COLTH U ROT presented a Femme) from the Shipping
Interest of Cork, praying for pro'setion.—Or 'ered to he printed. the Cou t. He might be desirous of refoi
Mr. HUME prrselat'sl a Petition (tow as, individual, complain- might also think or the ptofits of bankruptcy
or see internal tesulatious of the Fleet l'i two, and of the bard.
let of confident that Noble and Learned Person we
--gaups whick persons confined there were made to undergo. The
best lie could, but that eras not enough.
llL; ,no, mamma slated, that he tit sight there Was much ground for
the complaints of the Peti:ioner, and that the Government ought went through the business with more lisp its
',. so ion:ocm anti ate low far is could be removed. present Master of the Rolls while he was V:C
Mr. Soretary BOURNE said, that the subject bad not escaped lot. ‘Vere it not for him and Sir W. thaw
the, emotion of the Government ; hut the Lord Chief Justice and.
tress en Chanter), cOuld not have gone on.
the other Authorities believed themselves to be without the pottier
'i of applying remedies. If that proved to be the case, he should be Learned Persons who now presided ill the
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fee- legistatla asslstattee: Mlsell • Chaseetr. she Vic
compelled to all upon the House
bad already been doitkby the riertiatt• tied recommendglione of • were botb,ave ,
an
prbs.,Cvausdatee_and tise• Commiselou width, were form/rills ati- •
wipes however,
rlidlitd; abd Ma Right lion. Pribed. who ppereded him, appointed
opt
N
a idargsun to the prisonii fronawhieh the dtk sliorld receive attend• evils of the Court
vaip;i Slice he.had coitus into office, he bar be*VAisle to make tie/ rd Illilon. Thi
omit" a rem, sokth a i,urse amiqfroper a/andante ; and-lie
,f4r twit as 1783,
h ped that an assistant for dispensing medicines would also be pro-
Mr. Foster, an ern
tided. lithe internal regulations Which required remedy should '
1 ultlmatety be Mond beyond the authority of those who had the
of some of the MI
, highest power over the establishment, then he bad no doubt the remedy to Lord 1
"- Tl.. . 0.9, man 2