Star.
London, England, 1820-10-16 00:00:00

Have you not sworn that the reason why you sent .11-istelli to
Milan was, because he knew all the families of the witnesses ?
The &unmoor Gzuzam. objected to the cwestion.
The witness was again examintd, and said—l beg to observe,
that the sending away Itastelli did not refs merelyto the families
et Milan of the persons whom he broti3lit over here. The oc-
currence at Dover• had occasioned alarm to the families of all
the persons who had come over, or were to come over as wit-
nesses in this cause. •

Do you mean to state that he was to go both to Milan and to
the country in the neighbourhood of it, and to go round, not
only to the families of the persons he had brought over, but to all
others who had came over or were to come over ?—Yes, as far
as he could under the directions of Colonel Brown, and to take
letters to relatives and families of those who were here. As to
"the families of those who had not come over, his goi:lg could
have no reference, because they were not in danger.--
I cannot tell how many witnesses were brought over from the
north of Italy. I cannot tell about how many. Ido not know
the number of those here. After Ilasteili's arrival 11 Dover
with other witnesses, he went to Holland.

Witness continued.—l cannot tell whether he went anywhere
else. I did not give him instructions to go anywhere else. I
cannot tell whether he might not have gone to Milan in the inter-
val between his going to lloiland and the commencement of these
proceeditlgs. My instructions to Rastelli, when sending him away,
were, as far as I recollett, that he should collect letters front all
the witnesses who were here, and see the persons at Milan re-
lated to them, and assure them that they were all safe, and free
from any apprehension of danger. Rastelli made no difficulty
about going. He said that he would come back as soon as he
could. I knew that he was an important witness, and would
be an important witness before the House. of Commons, should
the bill go there. I had no motive for removing him out of the
way; and I again repeat, that if I bad not had the strongest.
conviction on my mind that he would be back here by the 31
of October, nothing could have induced me to have sent Has-
ten( out of he country..
.Eauniitseti by the ATTOZNIV-GILTIERAL.
1 was present when the Attorney-General for the Queen said
that he was dune with his cross-examination of the witnesses for
• the prosecution. No intimation whatever has been made on
the part of the Counsel far her Majesty, that /hey intended to
have Rastelli recalled. I did not expect he would be recalled.
I lookud upon the recalling of 31ajocchl as a special act of fa.
lorout by.f.ae House itself. I bad no intention whatever of with-
drawing Rastelli out of the way ; and no consideration for any
individual on earth could have induced me to do such an act.

To Lord LA U DER DA LE.—No coiner, tq my knowledge,
was sent from this country in the interval between the landing
of the witnesses at Dover and Rastelli's quitting this country.-
111 r. Powell was now ordered to withiraw.

Lord LAUDERDALE moved that the examination of Mr.
Powell should be printed separately, He iid not know what
might be the success of the motion, but he wished to have it put
on their Lordships' Journals, that one of their nymber, at least,
thought that as examination, which did not of the case they
were now judging one way or other, and which had, in his opi-
nion, been conducted in opposition to all the known principles,
of law,should not be mixed up with the main proceedings.
Earl GREY thought the examination of Mr. Powell formed
an essential part of the proceedings, ,and could not be separated
front them.
Lord ERSKINE was extremely anxious to see the character
of the House rise in the estimation of the country, and that they
should not willingly stultify themselves. The House had been
engaged the whole day in the examination of this witness, and
he could not consent to have it put upon record that they had
been occupied all this while to no purpose whatever. If
it was a good objection to printing Mr. PoweU's evidence as
part of the proceedings, that it did not affect the case-one way
or other, then a great artany,of the questions put by the Noble
Lord who had made the motion, ought also to be printed sepa-
rately, as having no connection on earth with the case before
the House.

. -
id I said, no. He afterwards made pie a Present.
What did he give you?-=He made me a present of 40 francs.
Did _ _ _ _

Lord LAUDERDALE explained. The,examination
Mr. Powell, was a sort of new case, not opened by the OMNI'
at the Bar on either side, but by four Noble Lords, who, in
doing so, had mimicked the violence of the Counsel at the Bar.
Earl GREY 4id not know whether he was one of the four
Noble Lords whom the Noble Earl on the cross bench aecused4
of mimicking the Counsel at the Bar. All he should say was, that
if he could minik, the eloquence and power with which
Counsel for her Majeszx bad conducted their cause, he
feel proud. But he had no hopes as a mimic, and least DI
being able to mimic the extreme mildness and forbearance "deb
which the Nobibl.ord conducted binsself—(A leue;h).
Lords Reassnatx, Doisouonstoas, and Cu m...anis. spoke
against printing she Examination of Mr. Powell separately.
The LORD CHANCELLOR was of the same opinion.
The motion was negatived'wfthout a division.

.jossor Ps.mira, Esq.-was aka edisi-is,-11-114—easisined by
idord
Are you Under Secretary in Lord Casdareath's Mice 3—Tam.
IM )iou remember an applicatina made to you by heir.
Powell, in Septemberjor a passport for HasteUi I—Mr. Powell
came to me and said k had. hien determined to send Morelli
abroad as courier, awl desired me to take the 'Alicia! steps far
that purpose. I consequently ordered the passport, .it was
slimed by Lord Castlereagh; but *Lord passports are kept
in the Mae, ready for sack occasions • and the rt.tslatasci.
nisiwat one et those. I Made ha isigkadas ko Lord

Nowiphr • •

.-*. • - . . . , . ••. -
reagh upon the subject; but of my own act greeted ;lie pines., respecting the acts of P.astelli, which they 'could' not
pot t, witheet the inuteediate order of Loid Castlereagh,- It is have put tp Rastelli hintselL
. .
.., ,
the constant practice to do so. I have not received instructioss '' Lord LIVERPOOL thought, that however the law or, the
from Lord •.r,aselereagh,- or any other person, respecting the point-might stand, since the absence of Rastelli was owing to
panting of passperti -to persons who...had attended as witnesses. the act and deed of the Aienti for-the Rill, the detente ought
At the time. the passport...was. greatest I knew from the news- net to suffer from it, and that the question should b.- put. 1
Papers, and frelli My general knovvledge- at. duf events of the . The LORI) CHANCELLOR agreed in this opiniust. This
Islay, that Rastelli had been examined as a witness; but-I knew was One of those allowances to which her Majesty *Counsel mre
[lt from no other source. -It was granted, I believe, on the 14th- entitled, from that- act of the Agent for the Bill, by whkh
.of September. -
they were deprived of thesbeeefie of examining Rastelli, at the
e-..D0 you know whether Sakai was charged with dispatches nustuent they thought best for the object they had in view.
Jom the Foreign Office?:-Certainly not from the Foreign Office. It did seem to him that the Counsel for the defence had called
pDo you meow of any passport granted for any courier for the •Rastellt as an evidence in chief; but allowing that they bad,
he
urpose of tailing back Ilastelli?--s1 know that passports were would not say that they ntight not have had the option of chaag-
granted for. other.*ouriers; but evbethehetiposewerse to, bring
rr
ing their call, and examining him in the way of ceassexaminatfon.
i
Rastelli back or not, Idg not know. - . . ~. .... , The objection wee oveuled, when the whams-Wes recalled,
-t ./3y the Mitquis of -LANSDOWN.—Tn. what eapicity did and the examination resumed by Dr. Lemurs:root -- • ... 1 you Forbidder Mr.. Powell *hen he. made application to you for Where did this second conversation take ',leer?—It .getee
the passport ?—As agent for she prosecution certainly. place on a remising that he called op me, and wt west tolbe
BY !Lord el-Pkii 4.13QT0N.--When ebiir,4ltrvell made ap- inn weather. • •-.• ~ sheatioe'hr theisasepoit for Reetelli, "dffi he apply for pass-- Did he then make any 'offer,-.or promise of Money to ye4;io
fleets for any ethos penal:o-1.4 belieee he certainly did net. become a witneas eclipse the Queen, and in what words, as tweely Lord DA RNI,Eit.-7.11as lir. Powell rmlde.,spy apOreation ai yoir can recollect?—He told me, if you have anything to 4e.
at arty: ether-thee fiit ;pas/mons for Other witnesses to go out of pose against her Royal Highness now is the time,. Yoe will
rthe coentry?-a-paly not. - . become a grebe man, and seeder a great present., 'We Went
Wise you% tett' with the.onder of. the House with re-, to the, Lao togatfier, talking, and dined-there:, 11. I." •:' ' ''' '
spect to the e ateined.witneeses, at the thee you granted the - Did he, whea,he spoke of your getting a gmelpeetemeetames.
passport for Rastelli?--1 had no knowledge of that order, et- tion the nettle of De Alone? Yes, he did.
cept merely what was stated in the ne*spapers. , In reference to what did he Mention the name of De Mort?
Ala BROCOHAW.—Did_Mr. Powell say anything else to you —I asked him, whether De i'llont wag still in the service of her
respecting Rastelli's going beck ?—As far as I recollect, he said, Royal Highoess, be told me that the was, and that she had Maio that Rastelli being. e proper person to return to satisfy the feud- a good day's work; that she had made a great tuts. • •
Iles of the witnesses, it was determined to send hint. Ido not 21e witness in continuation.—Rastelli told me that I)* Moot
recollect anything further.. I did ;he official. act., ' . • was still In the service of he; Royal Highness, apd I. found net
Do you recollect whether Mr. Powell said that Rastelli had that she was here. He told me that if I fenuld dePosh somg-
. been Wituoined?-e--I do.not. 'There might have been persons to thing against her Royal Ilighnes*, I should recelte a great pre..
my room at the time. Passports were granted to other couriers. sent. I said that I had been night and day in that house, andtbkt
Ido not know the datiof the earliest of the passports granted I never saw anything that enabled me to speak ill ,of the.Priii-
after that to Itastelli, nor did I knew the date of that until last cess. lie said, " You know nothing about it, for 1 t.eat yhtotis
my ot
night upon asking the person officially acting. is a very deceitful house." I said that that was a. real f .
At the suggestiOn of Mr. BitouomemeMr. Planta was ordered for I was in the house and knew nothing of it. • ••- '"
to ascertain the dares of the passpotts granted to other.ceuriers Did Ilattelli *ay anything further on that occasion about M.
sent over upon the proceedings., . Mont? • .
The Witnees having withdrawn, The LORD CHANCELLOR said that question would int
Lord CAII.NARYON said he had now a Motion to submit, do, but just as he was saying so, the witness Answered " so." ,
to which he did not expect any objectiost would be made. It The .examiustion of this witness was for a moment idspended, -
was,
'.4 Thai Counsel should be called in, and informed, that the on Mr. Bnoueireat's expressing a wish to ask Mr.-Planta, who
wines* Rastelli, having been sent abroad upon public. service by was mite present, the fallowiag question :
Mr. Powell, could not attend the House ; and that they should What wits the date of the first passpent after the 18th-of Sege
be asked, whether in the absence of that witness, they were tember, granted to a courier going.to the North of Italy Tast ? . prepared to proceed nu the examination of witnesses ?" eeth of September.
The LORD Cll A NCE L I.OR was decidedly of opinion that Mr. Planta• withdrew, and the farmer witness was ree,allece the latter part of the question should not be put. If her Ma- Was it On this occasion the expression was used about De
jesty•e Counsol thought proper, after having been called in-and Motit's making a good days work?-Yes,, it teas en that occ.*
informed that Rastelli was absent, to make any application to Sinn that Hastelli was going about making recruits. •
the House, stating that they could not proceed under such cir- State all that Kasten' cud about' making a good day's work.- 4e
curnsterices .it would then he the duty of the House to hear the I can't express it. I must only say, that he told me, that whe;ta reasons, and hear the Counsel for the Bill ;• after which she came to make a dr;wing she made a good day's work.' • ':.
their Lordships would decide upon the applicatien. If the Do you know a person of the name of liraganti?-1 do :be House acted otherwise they would establish • a very clan- was a cornpmlOn of Ruitelli.
getmis precedent. .It would, therefore, be the best course to Of what'busieess is
_he?-lle sells salt, tobacco, brawl), and
ell in Counsel and leave it to them,without being sc:illest upon other liquors. :le iwelt two gun-shots out of Milan. ' -
to interpose, to say wittalier or not hey considered it necessary Did Breganti ask you to corne and depose against her Royal to proceed, or injurious to their cause to advance farther till Highness? • t .
• liestelh should be produced? The Noble Lord concluded with' The Moe:, Soeterroe-Gewraat objected to this questionee-
' netwieg an Amendment to this effect. . -• The person whose conduct it affected had nut been examined ell Lord LIVERPOOL suumted the omission of the words a witness, Om had be been proved to be at- all connected with
4 upon public iervice."- • ' the proceeding. • -
s Lord HOLLAND paid, the course: proposed- was an ex- . Dr. Lusareozos contended for the right to put the question,
treultly liberal one ; but it struck him as also an extremely un- and read sotne.parts of Rastelli's evidence which want, he and
'neceseary ones for the Counsel had already ascertained the fact to prove that *Braganti was an agent employed in conjunction
which thellouse was so anxious to.inform them of. • . . with Rastelli The opposition to this question slu ill I not be
The Earl of LIVERPOOL suggested the introduction of added lothe many difficulties with which.her Bliesty's cease
words expressing the fait that •Itastelli was detained by illness. Was surrounded, by prosecutors who had not yet dared-
.
The. Marquis at LANSDOWN said, that feet had merely to exhibit -themselves in 'any visible shape or form.--..
appeared upon the evidence of Mr. Powell, and it would be ra- It would appear as if the prosecution was sustained by a Joint
titer toe much to admit that the house was satisfied with that Stock. Company. Whether it was undertaken by the order alt
evideuce—(//ear, hey.) . . .. - your Lordships, or of Government, it was evident- to all meet
The discussiqn ended by the calling in of the Counsel; and of common sense that. the acts of the-agents should undergo
Mr. 8R0U011431 begged that their Lordships Would anew-him* investigation; that the conduct of all the Contedesioners, and
and his Learned .Friends a few minutes to consult upon.thls all those wbu were Employed under them in collecting evidence
most important question -.(Hear, heir). should be sifted to the bottom. In What state is the
Queen
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the House would grabt likely 'to be placed, if evidence of this kind were refused? indie
any time which *bpuld be thought necessary. •- - • viduals might go through all. Europe suborning perjury. Whit At five minutes past two o'clock the Counsel returned, and hope of justice could exist if the acts of those persons, whom foe -
..
the House resumed. • could prove were gtelty of the vilest acts, were not to be hs.
Mr. Ileouceetae,-." My Lords; 'under the extraordinary cir- quired into? -
s cumstances in which her Majesty's Counsel find themselves Mr. Desotee supported the argument of his Learned Friend.
placed, and the difficulties with which they are surrounded, I The House were to consider that the Bill of Pains and Penalties •
find it impossible to commuoistate anything to your Lordships was also a Divorce Bill, and that it was also called a Bill la{
as our decision in conducting the defence of her May, ex- trodieed for the purpose of procuring substentialjuStioe. _Hem cept that we shall pursue a little further the course of esiamina- could that justice be obtained if the production of evidence, as.
tion with which we eomnienced. . ~•- i .••a s - • • to the subornation of witnesses, were to be opposed because
.ifiutre-iero Pout was then callc# in, etal esaasiseed tip Doctor technical objections might exist? In the course or proceeding:
LUSHINGTON.
... , . ....., .
on this criminal prosecution, Braganti was. he believed, he
' I usually reside at the Barone. I have resided there, in this country-. He was one of the companions of Rastelle,-...
ICY own Parish, thirty.fiee . eons—in my own place wham Whether he went abroad to quiet the apprehensions of the fa.
I work, foirteen years. Barone is the' name of the Parish. sullies Of the witnesses that .remained—(Lead tanzker)—be'
I resided at the house at the Barons, where the Princess of ' could not. exactly say; but, if he were in this country;;
Wales lived three years ago. I remember the Princess reeiding her Majesty's could . not consistently - put into the bet as'
in chit house by night and by day. lam a Canes:her. I know their witness a person whom, they charged with the deepest.
Giuseppe Ilastelli. Ile was in the Princes?* service as groats.- crimes. He would not say that the crime of subornation of,
1.1 know Louisa De Mont. I remember, ill the course of the perjury was fixed, but he bad a right to assume that it would
last year, Rastelli coming to the Barona. He was accompanied e,be proved, and •he was ready to prove it. Rasta!' hid bean -
by the son of my head master. De Mont came in half ah hour sent out of this country by a Milan Commissioner, under the-
after in a ewe/age. Itastelli and De Mont -Were together in atithorityot an order, signed !%y a Noble Lord in the Govern"
the house, . . meat : and he thought it but fair to notice that the most Malig-,
Wliat did you see Rastelli do ?.—I saw them both make little , nant and atrocious conspiracy that ever was devised agaiint any
drawings there. • • . defendant, was the' sole ground and origin of that erosecution
Did Rastelli, on leaving the house, give you anything? - • which wai now pending. And it was now that he claimed, vu ' .
The Arroaeav-Gaireaae objected to the question. the part of the Illustrious 'Defendant, the opportunity of este.,
What did Rastellielo an leaving the house ?—He asked me blishingehe.existence of these most criminal practiceseby shewifer. :
'-'-r I hid received'presents from the persons who came ? the mode and circumstances which the evidence was sere) ' ej, •

jpcd
Bother. Unless her Majesty's Counsel were permitted to do this, :
she would be' excluded from the only one advantage attending'
. .

..- he cay anything respecting De Mont on this Occasion ? the present
.mode of proceeding—the- examination Of agents..-o
The tastielTOß-GESSZAL objected to the question. . course which, would be denied in any ordinary ease. Her Coumi-..
1)1t1 telli offer you any money tainduce you to come here sea were totally in the dark as to. the conduct of the Milan •as a witness?-11e did offer me on another day,'but not on that CO'nuninion, with the exception that that Commission had been,
day. He told me, if I had something to say against the Irin- begun and endedr It was impossible that any of the practices_
cess, I then should receive a great present. • • that prevailed dtiring the sitting of the Commission, and which.
When did he tell you you should receive this great present ? would be proved to be most abominable, could bt extraneous'
—I said that I had nothing to depose against her Majesty. I to the fair and just determination of the case. .
bad nothing to say but to speak well of her. lit told me, If The Arroamtr-Gmmitst said, that when.a proper-opportunity
you like you may make yourself:a man. • I asked him in:what should present itself for enquiring into the conduct of that Com-
manner. He said, you, who have lived in this' house day and mission, an inquiry which the Gentlemen themselves were moot
night, may have something to depose against her Royal High- anxious take place, they would. -stand quite dear Its the
ness. I said. I had nothing to depose against that Lady, who opinion of their-Lordships and of the Public. • . bad always done much good. • Tlie LORD CHANCELLOR here interrupted the Attor.•
.
Was De Mont present at the tfine?—No, she wai not. • - ney-General. Ile strongly censured the conduct of Dr. Lush. .
Did liastelli at the time mention De
.Mont ? ington, in having stated that the prosecution Was instituted by a
The Souiciroa-Gxessat objected to the,question. JOint Stock Company, and in having insinuated that•the • prem.
Lord ERSKINE contended, that whatever Ristelli had said cuter was invisible: Whether the prosecutor were visible or
to the witness ought to be received as evidence, . - invisible, the House; he seas convinced, could not permit such
The LORD CHANCELLOR could not consent to refuse , a questionls•thit which'ltad been proposed' to be put.—(Losid
that evidence which would have beep, admiseible if Regent Cries.of,,Go on' undAdjourst /).
,* •
could now be brought before the House. ilia not being in the, ,IVIr. DismAir said he had to 'submit an -application to their
capacity to be so called, not Wog owing oftite Connie' who op.: Lordshipkbefore they adjourne4. . it was, that their lardshipa .
pose the Bill. should ascertain from the ponies conducting the prosecution,
When Rastelli made this offer to you,. did he mention any whether linigantlwassin.this country: i ' .•I , . -
thing respecting De;ghlont ?--No ; because It was some days ' The Emcee Souerroa-Gesoniat mid, that the Learned Corn.
after that he had with me this conversation. . ....' • • sel had no:right to =quire into she course the Counsel for the
. Dr. Lusunicrox.—The witness does not undermined. Ay Bill meant to pursue. -Whether or not they would call him as o
question. . witness to contradict any statements that might b. made, it was
The Soticeroa-GefERAL objected to the courier of examination: for thian to determine ?
Mr. Dramas defended the relevancy of *the question. Mt..Dessuas Said, that he had not asked whether ft wee'
The Arroarrer-Ossesat. replied at some length, and with' their intenttion to examine Braganti for the purpose of
;warmth.. He conjured their Lordships not to alluw a course of obtaining a contradiction to anything which had been seid, lb•
proceeding to. he followed which was at variance with. all
,the merely wiehestepbaciii whether that person was, oc wit nu an
rules of law. • Tiro Counsel for the defence hadyestersily called. the country:, ,„.•• 1 -: ~ • • • .
• •Iltastellias an evidencein chief on their part. And hid he been The LORD CHANCELLOR. said, that it was nor, is the
here tad examined, such questions as were now pnr to the wit- power of
.‘the How to ask that queationi but it was is shear
mess at the bar could not balm been :put to hies, because this power to. decide whether in an?, resew .of the prep:Num
would have been to criminate their own witness. They could- they should themselves call this wuroms.-(aeirtha).
hot, therefore, be permitted to pat vestione to another wits The House•then adjourned it Ivoilklock. .