Star.
London, England, 1828-02-13 00:00:00

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Right Hon: 'Secretary for the Home Depavasseat wail
also pressed for an explanation, and at firat temained
silent; but to-night he had broken that silence,. and he
bad sided a little more than they before knew, which,
if he bad stated it last night, would have saved much of
the early part of this discussion—(Hear). He was satis-
fied with his declaratioli, that the Committee of Fin ince
*boot to be appointed would have all the powers or.
former Committees of Finance. He (Wk. Moberly)
asked br no more than that on that point. •There was,
however, yet another thing to which be should look, in
tight tbeeondect of the Government, and that would
die oakum of the names which it would offer to the,
)pease to form that Committee. He hoped and trusted
didt persons would be chosen to form it, not with regard.
e. what side of the House they sat, but with a view to
their qualifications as men who had attended to financial
artatters, and were competent to investigate them. It
wits not to be a Committee to amuse the public with a:
show of a wish for retrenchment,but a real and effective'
Committee, to examine into the whole of our establish-
ments and the expenditure connected with theta. If
that Committee did its duty, it would strengthen the
Ministry and satisfy the country. He could not give a
greater proof of the sincerity of his opinions, thee by
Seating, that he proposed its formation to a Right Hon.
Gentleman now no more, urn the occasion of several
of his (Mr. Moberly's) friends joining the Administra-
lion of the Right Honourible Gentleman. He told him,
when he advised him to form it, that it would tend to
strengthen his government, and he now told the Right
Mons Secretary opposite the same thing. A Ithoogh he
Sr.( M ) had t ken a different view of what a Fi-
nancial Committee ought to be, horn that of the Right
honourable Member for Liverpool, yet, if he had not
spoken out, this discussion would not have been raised.
Mr. WARBUIta ON said that he should not be sal is.
fied with any names that.might form the Committee
unless it had the power of sifting our financial system to
theyery bottom. •
Mr. S. RICE said that the Right Hon. Secretary op-
posite had pledged himself that the Committee should
base the same powers as former Finance Committees,,
of the years •1796 and 97, and of the years 1817, 18.
arid 19. He (Mr.R.) accepted the pledge, if it was meant
to refer to the powers of the latter of these Committees;
but if it was meant to refer to the earlier Committees,.
he did not accept of it. The coder of the House in
the two cases was distinct and different—that appoint-
ing the latter included subjects of the greatest possible
importance within the limits of its inquiry ; whilst that
strobe fot rner was comparatively much mote limited
*bat appointing the latter Committee embraced every
object which could be imagined to be of public im.
portance, by the sweeping comprehensiveness of its
terms—itwwag,s—g, That a Committee be appointed to
inquire into the income and expenditure of the country,
and to consider what further measures ought to be
adopted for the relief of the country from any part of
the said expenditure, without detriment to the public
service." Now, if there was sense in words and meaning
in language, it was impossible that a Committee could
be constituted, " to consider what measures ought to
be adopted for the relief of the country," without its
having the veer of consideiiag not only the amount
of the establishments and their expenditute, but. the
hest means of reducing that ezverchture. The Right
Goutleman opposite had admitted that it was
according to the precedent of that Committee that the
• powers.of the pr. s of were to be maikel out ; it was
kindly admitted on his past, for he had A right to say
that he would not open his lips on the suTcOtill it'
came more regularly before the Houses. Noll (Mr.
S. Rice) trusted that the Howe would not.think, and
than the country would not think that this discussion had
been improperly raised on the present occasion, when
it was remembered that it was stated from authority,
and high authority ton, that this Finance Committee.
from which the public justly expected so hitclositosold
bare no right to inquire Mtn the amount of the "nen:
(bone of this country, either as regarded iti civil or
military establishments. If that had hien the chi-
ttacter of the Committee, it would 'have been a farce
arouse the public out of cloiws, • and a'trick tei
couch votes for the Government in the early part of
tfle Session, without an opportunity of reconsidering
those votes at the conclusion of it. But he could
not reconcile obat had been stated, in the same breath
'nearly, by a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, viz. that
the Committee were not to look into the extent of the
establishments, and yet that the House was only to
give a vote for six months; thus implying, that the
question was to be kept suspended for the judgment of
the Committee. He did not hear this statement made;
and it was so repugnant to common sense, that he could
not believe it bad really been uttered. The least informed
"individual of the lowest society could not have put forth
the two propositioos at one and the same time without
blushing. He was, however, quite satisfied such a state-
ment was never made, as the House had get the guaran-
tee—or, as that now seemed to be a
_dangerous word to
use--4A laugh)—he would say. the understanding or
agreement—(laughter)—of the Right Hon. Gentleman
opposite. that this Coosmittee will be constituted on the
• principle they wished to have it constituted on.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that the Hon. Gentleman
had referred to an order of the House, relative to a
former Committee ;he was welcome to do se, and he was
welcome to bear that order in his mind, 'for it was on
the principle of the Committee appointed by that order
that the new one would be framed. He had referred
to the mention that had been made by him (Mr. Peel)
of the other Committee, as if he imagined it possible
that he should take shelter in eo pitiful a refuge as the
difference-betweeo the orders appointing. the two COM-
-minces. He did not mean to fix upon any particular

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'Committee when hy said .4 former Commuter," but
-only meant to express generally, that all the powers
tainat ever •had been granted to a Finance Committee
.'meld be granted to the one about to be formed.
. Oa the gabarion that this Report be brought up being nursed,
. llls. RUNE repeated the arguments be used on the previous
alert. relative to the continual increase of our establishments and
Are Hilt ; the dampness with which the Americans managed their
ANN compared with ourselves ; and the possibility of returning to
• *state of things cantina in 1'92; and concluded by moving a re-
:anktitia of peitt length, expressive d these sentiments, by way of
to the motion.
'21111071.1.41:1 MR stated; that at it was Ms intention to take the sense
etas House on the principle of the resolution which be bad just
Ise would not now divide open It.
Tfteilltioll was put and negatived.
original resolution was then put and carried.
fIUME thee moved, " That it was the ditty of the House,
1111 ho present state of the Finances of the country, before pawing a
:ems der the employment of 50,000 seamen and marines. (or the
,t lag six imembs, to take into consideration whether.the peculiar
eireeenstances of the country warranted so large a vote, when it ap-
. pared thane more than 16,000 were found to be necessary in the
pidsrll92, and monism than 19M00 in the year 16.1.7."
I JOHN -WROTTERLEY said, be should Dot oppose the
vest node' the Swept circumstances of the country, became he
zethe intention attic Government was to act up to the spirit
ter of the Treaty of July last. lie would. however, bold
sem OoSernment responsible for carrying into effect such measures
be lissakl ensure the eafety of the mercantile interests of this country
. Ig.gliperts of tbewerld.
or the Animithaent,ll I Against it,54 I Majority. 44
her reinintioai were then soveraUtput, and agreed to.
tel4anstnil at Ism Weont.