Star.
London, England, 1819-02-09 00:00:00

and his opinion.was, the discussion at present, espe-
cially in such a House, wore better adjourned.
Lord KENYON expressed his willingness, after
*hat he had heard, to postpone his motion further,

until that day se'nnight.
The discussion continued, but assumed rather an
explanatory character.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE repeated his leading
objections to proceeding farther at present ; and some
detailed explanation took place between his Lordship
and the Reverend Prelate (of CHESTER), respecting
what had occurred relative to the Petitions which
were brought forward.
In the course of the conversation, EarIGROSVENOR
specifically proposed that the discussion should be
adjourned until this day fortnight ; and after some
further remarks from one or two of their Lordships,
the questiom were put, when that for adjourning the
consideratioi, of the motion (as originally proposed),
until that day sinnight, was negatived ; and the
amended propmition for postponing the discussion
until this day fortnight was agreed to by their Lord-
ships.—Adjourned till to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. H. DAVIS presented a Petition against the Bristol Gas
Bill.—Ordered to be referred to the Committee on the Bill.
Mt. COURTNEY presented a Petition, signed by a great
number of the inhabitants of Exeter, in avour of a Bill for
snaking a new hlarket. Ordered to lie on the table.
The Report of the Committee on the proposed new Market
was then brought up, read, and ordered to be re-committed.
General GASCOYNE brought in a Bill for facilitating the
recovery of small debts at Liverpool.—Read a first time.
The Liverpool new Aluket Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed.
The Report of the Committee of Ways and Means was
brought up and agreed to.
The till providing for the Care qf his Majesty's Person was
read a third time and passed.
Mr. HARVEY gave notice for Wednesday, that he would
move for a Return of the number of Exchequer Informationi,
under the Excise Laws, up to January 5, 1819, distinguishing
those cases in which a compromise had been made, and those
i:: which verdicts had been obtained.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY wished to move for a Return of the
number of Surcharges made on Farmers, as Licensed Horse.
dealers, distinguishing the Appeals made, and their results. If
it were not object: d to, he would make the Motion now.
The CHA NCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to
. the Motion being pressed now.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY then give notice that ke should bring
forward a Motion on the subject on Thursday.
yaw WRITS.

The SPEAKER bad received a.letter from Mr. Lentz Po.
•rzn, stalog, that having been returned for two places, the City
of Armagh and the Tuwn of Lishurne, he made bis election to
serve the City of Armagh. A New Writ was then moved for
the Town of Lisburne—Order, d.
O❑ the Motion of Sir HOMY PARNELL, a Now Writ was or-
dered for the Borough of Portarlington, in the room of Rtctiasto
Su,sar, Esq. who, since his election, had accepted the Chiltern
Iltindreds.
Lord CA ST LER F.A GII moved for a New Writ for the Bo-
rough of :;eurry, in the room of General NELDSIA)to now a Peer
of ,list part of the United Kingdom called Ireland.—Ordered.
The SPE.% thought it might prevent some inconve-
stieme, jibe were now to state wby those Writs had been moved
to-day s‘ itich had been oared on Friday, but which, at his sug-
gcrtiou, had been with:tell On Friday, it was possible that
Election Tetitions might be received, and therefore he had ad-
s•isett that these Motions s::ould be put oil. But he hid this
morni::g eviitten to the Post Wee, to know the date at which
the last Mail left Dublin. The answer was," on Friday night ;"
and this being c-Asiderably after the time for lodging Petitions
against undue Returns, there could be no reason for longer delay-
ing the :dotians for New Writs.

vv.6.

be enlarged for giving information of recoguisances
entered into, and that fourteen days should be al-
lowed fotthat purpdse. He then put the question
severally on the Petitions complaining of the Returns
for the County of Cork—for the County of Leitrim
-'and for Drogheda, that the time for receiving no-
tice of the recognisance, being entered Into, should
be enlarged till Friday, the 19th Feloruary.—Ordered.
Mr. LUSHINGTON moved for an Account of the
Unfunded Exchequer Bills, up to January 5, 1819.
--Ordered.—The Account was immediately pre-
sented, and ordered to lie on the table.
INSOLVENT DEBTORS.
On the motion of f 1 a Arrosmay-GENERAL, an
Order of the House for the production of certain
Papers relative to the Insolvent Debtors' Court, was
discharged ; and a series of other Papers, giving Re-
turns of all persons discharged under the Act ; of the
gross amount of their debts, and of the sums paid
into the hands of the assignees, and specifying the
names of such persons as had been, and the cir-
cumstances under which they were remanded, were
ordered to be laid before the House.

On the motion of Mr. STUART WORTLEY, a new
Writ was ordered for the Borough of Droitwich, in
the room of Ogle, Esq. deceased.
The Cutlery Trade Bill went through a Committee,
the Report of which was ordered to be received ttb.
morrow.

•,•••ti

MI. IMMMIGMAM-COMMITTZI Or Stelttelf.
Mr. CALCRAFT rose to make the motion of
which be had given notice, for addiog Mr. Brougham
to the Committee of Secrecy. The fitness of his Ho-
nourable and Learned Friend for such a Committee
was not to be disputed. Every one who knew the
man, must know that he was peculiarly fitted to
forward and assist such an inquiry as that with which
the Committee were charged. But he had been
asked by many Gentlemen if there were any prece-
dent for that which he was about to propose? To
this he would reply, that there was a direct prece-
dent in its favour. He found that on May 11, 1781,
the Marquis of Graham had been added to a Corn- ,
mittee as he now proposed to add Mr. Brougham.—
Stating this, he had said enough to prove that the
course he wished the House to take was not unpar-
liamentary, nor without a precedent.' He wished not
to offer any invidious remarks on the occasicr, and
should humbly submit his motion to the House—
" That Mr. Brougham be added as a Member to the
Committee of Secrecy."
Lord CASTLEREAGH said the line taken by
the Honourable Gentleman very properly avciited
any invidious remarks on the Menthe, s of the Com..
mittee. He, however, must object to the motion as
destructive of that ancient mode of choosing a Com-
mittee to which the House had thought fit to resort
on this occasion. When the Honourable Gen:leman
said there was a precedent for which hr pro-
posed, in 1781, he did not say whether the Com-
mittee to which the Marquis of Graham was added,
was a Committee of Secrecy.
Mr. CALCIIAFT--Yes, it was.
Lord CAS fLEREAGII then stated, that he had
a precedent of equal force on the other side of the
question. In 1797, it was proposed to add Mr. Fox
to a Committee of Secrecy, but though the Com-
mittee was less numerous than the present, the pro-
position was negatived. He contended, that in pas-
ticular caws, where a Committee of Secrecy was ap-
pointed, it was desirable, when the ancient practice
of ballot was resulted to, that the House should ad-
here strictly to the Committee chosen, and not suffer
others to be added to the number at First selected.

Mr. TIERNEY considered the course now pur-
sued to be invidious, if the language used on this
occasion deserved a different character. In the whole
House he did not know that there was one person so
eminently qualified to assist at such an inquiry as his
Honourable and Learned Friend. There was not one
Gentleman who, on all questions cm every branch o:*
public economy, was fitter to throw light on the sub-
ject of inquiry than the individual now proposed to'
be added to the Committee of Secrecy. Ministers,
howevor, determined never to give way but when
the voice of the House was against them, wished
their will to pass for the law of Parliament. He
wished to know how the Committee, which consisted
cf 21 persons, could be damaged by making it 22,
in order to let into it one of the most intelligent men
in that House? The proposition was only °nosed,
because Mr. Bmugham sat cu :lint (tire Oppcsition)
side of it. No one could deny that he was a fit and
proper person ; no one could deny that he was well
qualified to throw light on the various subjects into
which they would have to inquire; and what harm,
be would wish to know, could result from the Mo-
'tion being acceded to? If tl'ere were in the Com-
mittee ten Opposition and eleven Ministerial Mem-
bers, then the introduction of Mr. Brougham might
be objected to as an expedient to make the two par-
ties on a balance. Ot this, however, there would be
no fear, as abundant care had been taken of that ;
and even with Mr. Brougham, the opponents of Mi-
nisters in the Committee would only be 7 out of 22.
This was a question on which the House and the
country could not but look with great anxiety, as the
value of Mr. Brougham was known ; and in no case
where laborious research, and persevering inquiry
into a complicated subject, were necessary, would
the public voice fail to place his name at the head of
any list that might be proposed.
Lord CASTLEREAGH explained.
Mr. S. WORTLEY could not but believe that if
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham)
were no: a Member of the Committee, it was the
fault of the Gentlemen of the Opposition. If they
had done their duty, they might have had him in it.
The house had decided that the Committee should
consist of 21 Members, to be chosen by ballot. In
old times, and within his memory, it had been corn-
:bon for two lists of names to be circulated on such
occasions. It was not so now. No list was pro-
duced from that side of the House. Had this been
done, as he believed not more than a hundred Mem-
bers voted—had half the minority of the preceding
night put in Mr. Brougham's name, he must have
been of the number of the Committee. That he was
out was clearly their own fault, and it was too much
that they should now attempt to get another Mem-
ber added to the Committee, because they had neg-
lected their duty.
Mr. PROTHEROE maintained, that though what
had been stated by the last Speaker was theoretically
true, it was not practically so. If the Members of
the Opposition had come forward in a body, the
Ministers would have done the like, and the result
would have been what it was on the late occasion.
To say, then, that the Opposition had only to blame
themselves, was not the fact ; it would be more
manly for Ministers to say that they had the power,
and had thought proper to take this measure into
their own hands. He blamed Ministers for not using
the influence they possessed with more moderatior,
and should vote for adding the name of iVir.Brougham
to the Committee.
Mr.CALCRAFT believed the Honourable Mem-
ber fol Yorkshire had been misinformed on the sub-
ject of the ballot, when he stated the number of
Members that voted to be about one hundred. He
(Mr. Calcraft) was informed that near 200 had voted,
and about 17.5 had put in their lists unaltered. Had
they brought forward lists of their own they could
not have got Mr. Brougham into the Committee.
Mr. WAITHMAN considered it to be the duty of
the House, for such an inquiry, to select those'who
were best fitted by their talents and experience to
conduct it to a satisfactory conclusion. Whatever
might be thought in that House, the Public would
not believe that the CoMmittee of Secrecy was ap-
pointed to make an inquiry, but would rather believe
it was appointed to suppress it. He strongly ex-
pressed his disapprobation of the way in which Com-
suitteei were Flom by ballot. On the presentoe-
easioni if no precedent had been adduced to justify

the motion, he was of opinion it would have b
wrong • to vote against one so brought forwar.l
'that account. It might so happen that one indiv:].,4
could give the House more information than al
rest of the house beside ; and was that one to C.
shut out by etiquette? He did not think this inqs;.-r
would be satisfactory to the Public. It washi,
tion to vote for the Motion.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE was of opinion, that wiletbe.
a Committee were chosen by hallos, or by a vote
the House, the result might be expected to heit,2
the same. But he should have a great ob'rction t,
proceeding by ballot, if the House were to he lirnited
by it to the number originally named to be •;t1 d,„
Committee—if it were to be put in fetters and
prived of the power of making any addition, bat
ever de:irable. Cases might occur in which mat
injury would be sustained if the Committee were de,
nied the benefit it might derive from the
of a particular individual. Thi, had ever be.!,
end accordingly instances had c,:curicd, rot
case, but in many, where additions had been rci
to Committees chosen by baiot. Ia 1713, env:,
Members were added to a Committee; in 1716,
fewer than four were added to one. In 1773, three
were added to a Committee in the same way, and ii
1781, one (as had been altrady stated by an Hone:;.
able Gentieman, Mr. Calcrilf:) was aided to 4 Coe.
mittee of Secrecy. On the propriety of addirg
Ilrow4ham to the present Committee 11,, con!4 hard:,
have expected that there would have Seen ooe
smiting voice, as, on questions e:
his information, industry, and assiduity, were k,.owa
to all.

Mr. CANNING wished to state the grannels
which he should give his vote. When he rated la
favour of choosing a Committee by ballot, one train
advantae:e on which he had cakulatcd was this, diLt
it would exempt Members from the necessity ef stati:3
the g,onads of their preference or objection. If az
no other reason, he would for that alone abstaie
from making any remark on the individual nen-
tioned in the Motion before the House, further than
to subscribe to all that had been said in praise of his
industry and talents. He would admit that after
Committees had been chosen by ballot, aiditionskal
been made to them, but these he apprehended wee
under new cir:umstances, New Members had pc-
haps come into the Ilseise, or the particular fitnea
of an individual to assist at the inqniry in progress
had come to the knowledge of the House after the
Cammitree had been formed, but it did not appez
that such alterations had been made, when the
at the time of forming its Committee, bad
before it all the tAents of three full in its contempla•
tion who wcre afterwards added to the Committee.
On the present occasion, without saying any Nell
in the slightest degree invidioes, he must remark,
that the Committee had been .formed with a know.
ledge of the talents of all its rnen,bers, and espe-
' chilly of those of the Honourable :old Learned Gen-
'tleman. He thought it wculd be inco:svenicat to
over. the Committee .1.1:r.e, arid if the Learned
tlerean were added to its members, this would not be
the only addition that would be required.
Mr. WYNW sheaved that the members added to
former Committees were not new Members. In 1773,
of the three added to a Committee, Mr. Jenkinsca
(afterwards the Earl of Liverpool), Mr. Laagley.
and Ilkilopkinson, were all old Members.

. _
Mr. BARHAM contended, the Onposition had
not neglected their duty by failing to put in circt:la-
ticn a list of their own. iie never knew an instance
in which an Opposition list was of any use %..hat!ver,
the custom might therefore as well be Uropped as act,
and they, in forbearing to re-.•ive it, did not deserve to
be charged with deserting their duty. When they
could not perform their duty it was best not to pre-
tend to do it. Ile thotitrilt there was not an impar-
tial man to be fousal who would not name Mr.
Brougham as the fittest man that could be placed oa
such a Committee.

Mr. MARTIN (of Galway) conceived a man might
be an eminent Lawyer, yet there might be considera-
tions that would effe,...tually operate to prevent the
King from placing him in a Judicial situation; and
another individual might be eminent in Divinity, yet
no man would advise the King to create him a Bi-
shop. In the same way the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman, whose name was before the House, might
be greatly distinguished by talents and industry, yet
there might be circumstances that ought to induce
the House and the Ministers not to name him a mem-
ber of the Committee of Secrecy. He had considered
every thing that could be urged in favour of Mr.
Brougham, and the result was, that he for one should
vote against him. This he should do in the exercise
of his discretion, and if they wished it, he did not
believe that Government could procure the nomina-
tion of this Gentleman (Mr. Brougham). He (Mr.
Martin) was not ashamed to say, that Ministers could
not induce him to vote for the appointment of that
Gentleman—(A laugh).
Lord MORPETH said, Mr. Fox, in 1797, had
been excluded from the Committee then appointed,
by the party warfare which raged at that time. He
had thought Mr. Fox, from his great talents, would
have been a valuable acquisition to that Committer.
as he thought Mr. Brougham would be to that jut
'appointed ; and, on the same principles which led
him to vote for Mr. Fox then, he should vote for Vln
Brougham now.

Mr. NIARRYATT bore testimony to the great ta-
lents, strength of mind, and unwearied industry of
Mr. Brougham, but still could not wish to see him
in the Committee. The nuestions on which they had
to deliberate called for the attention of practical ra-
ther than that of theoretical men. He should there-
fore object to Mr. Broughani's name being added to
the Committee, as he thought it already contziacd
too few practical, and too many theoretical Gentle-
men—( Heel r, hca r).
Mr. HARVEY asserted Mr. Brougham to be pre.
eminently qualified to assist the Committee in their
arduous task. He maintained that if, as the Mem-
ber for Yorkshire had said, the Opposition were "
blaniefor not putting Mr. Brougham in the Commi:-
tee before, that was .no Teason why they should nn
remedy the evil, now they had discovered theirerror,
as soon as they could. He considered Mr. Brougham
to be excluded from party feelings, when it our.: :0
be the object of Ministers to get 11 the talent they
could into the Committee.

The House then divided—Ayes,- lU=-Cott, 17'3
—Majority agairast the 3,lotigts) V.

•
. ,
the motion, he was of opinion it would have e.e.l isances MI. 110170RAM—COMMITTE11 Or =RM.
. 1
be enlarged for tviarg inf°Matke'af rselicoMi be al- Mr. CALCRAFT rose to make the motion of wrong •to vote against one so brought for wart .:,
_
• • was, the discussion at present, espe- entered into, an that fourteen days
pinion.that account. It might so happen that one indival oa
nth a House, were better adjourned. lowed for that puriscir• He then
hutting of the Returns to the Committee of Secrecy. The fitness of his Ho.
put the question which be had given notice, for addiog Mr. Brougham •
.:1,4
could give the House more information than all I I)
:ENYON expiessed his willingness, after severally on the Petitions comp I
the
ng no- was not to be disputed. Every one who knew shut out by etiquette? He did not think this in •
iad heard, to postpone his motion further, for the County of Cork—for the County of. Leitrim nourable and Learned Friend for such a Committee rest of the house beside ; and was that nne .tati.,4:
1
day se'nnight. qaey
d for Drogheda,
should man, must know that he was peculiarly fitted to would be satisfactory to the Public. It wasbis hat.
scussion continued, but assumed rather an Ibeithengtimenetefredor reckietolvti
ry character. ace of the recognisandicesat
be enlarged till Friday, the 19th February.—Ordered. forward and assist such an inquiry as that with which tion to vote for the Motion.
rl of LAUDERDALE repeated his leading Mr. L'USHINGTON moved for an Account Oche the Committee were charged. But he had been Mr. C. W. WYNNE was of opinion, that whether i
to proceeding farther at present ; and some Unfunded Exchequer Bills, up to January e, 1819. asked by many Gentlemen if there were any prece- , a Committee were chosen by hallo{, or by a vote
. dent for that which he was about to propose? To the House, the result might be expected to he ii4t
splanation took place between his Lordship - was immediately pre
this he would reply, that there was a direct prece- the same. But he should have a great obiecti4 t,
del: —Ordered.—The
ordered
table. 1
everend Prelate (of CHESTER). respecting —"-senOter _The Account
dent in its favour. He found that on May 11, 1781, proceeding by ballot, if the House we. be r
occurred relative to the Petitions which. INSOLVENT DEBTORS.
to lie on the
-e to mated
ght forward. On the motion a Are Arrosurzse-GENERAL,
an the Marquis of Graham had been added to a Corn- by it to the number originally named to b e•mi at .
:ourse of the conversation, EarlGaosvatamt Order of the House for the production of certain mittee as he now proposed to add Mr. Brougham.— Committee—if it were to be put in fetters and Az.
_ Court,'was Stating this, he had said enough to prove that the prived of the power of making any addition, boa
d that the discussion should be Papers relative to the Insolvent Debtors..
y propose
of other Papers, giving Re- course he wished the House to take was not unpnr- ever detirable. Cases might occur in which mataza
until this day fortnight ; and after some discharged; and a series •
marks from one or two of their Lordships, turns of all persons discharged under , the Act •of the liamentary, nor without a precedent.' He wished not injury would be sustained if the Committee issue
'lib veere put, when that for adjourning the gross amount of their. debts, at„
bts, and of the sums paid to offer any invidious remarks on the occasion, and nied the benefit it might derive from the knowles
and
specifyingthe should humbly submit his motion to the House— of a particular individual. This had ever ha!, L
ion of the motion (as originally proposed), into the hands of the assignees,
,_
had been, and the or- " That Mr. Brougham be added as a Member to the end accordingly instances had cacuried, rot i,
day stinnight, was negatived ; and the names of such persons as
.•! M.
remanded, were Committee of Secrecy." case, but in many, where additions had lava not nammition for postponing the discussion cumstances under which they were
Jay fortnight was agreed to by their Lord- ordered to be laid before the House. Lord CASTLEREAGH said the line taken by to Committees chosen by harlot. la 1715, taa
Ijourried till to-morrow.
On the motion of Mr. STUART Wortmity, a new the Honourable Gentleman very properly avcided Members were added to a Committee.; in 1716, al
HOUSE OF COMMONS Writ was ordered for the Borough of Droitwich, in any invidious remarks on the Members of the Corn- fewer than four were added to one. In 1773, tame
.
:AVIS presented a Petition against the Bristol Gas the room of Ogle, Esq. deceased. mittee. He, however, must object to the motion as were added to a Committee in the same wee', and is
ed to be referred to the Committee on the BilL The Cutlery Trade Bill went through a Committee, destructive of that ancient mode of choosing a Corn- 1781, one (as had been already stated by ars Homo:;.
IITNEY presented a Petition, signed by a great the Report of which was ordered to be received ea. mittee to which the House had thought fit to resort able Gentieman, Mr. Calcreft) was aided to a Cc?,
se inhabitants of Exeter, in avour of a Bill for
mozrow, on this occasion. When the Honourable Gentleman rnittee of Secrecy. On the propriety of addir g
.M,
v Nlarket. Ordered to lie on the table.
Rof the Committee on the proposed new Market SCOTCH BURGHS. said there was a precedent for thet which he pro- Brougham to the present Committee her valid hard:l
ought up, read, and ordered to be re-committed. Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON presented a posed, in lash he did not say whether the Corn- have expected that there would have Seen one cii;
ASCOYNE brought in a Bill for facilitating the Petition from the Electors of Kirkcudbright, one of mittee to which the Marquis of Graham was added, senting voice, as, on questions te•politLet e,:e.,,m,
..
mall deists at Liverpool.—Read a first time.
the Burghs of Scotland, praying to be restored to the was a Committee of Secrecy. his information, industry, and assialeity, were k%oira
pool new Muket Bill was read a second time, and
free exercise of their elective rights. ThesNoble Lord Mr. CA LC It AFT—Yes, it was. Ito all.
i committed.
In of the Committee of Ways and Means was entered into a series of statements connected with Lord CASTLEREAGH then stated, that he had Mr. CANNING wished to state the grainuls re
ad agreed to. this subject. He reminded the House, that a. Bill to a precedent of equal force on the other side of the which he should give his vote. When h.. 1 c.,ted ;2
ruviding for the Care of his Majesty's Person was remedy in part, only in part, the evils of which these question. In 1797, it was proposed to add Mr. Fox favour of choosing a Committee by ballot, one train
rime and passed.
VEY gave notice for Wednesday, that he wouldh
Petitioners complained, had been brought into the to a Committee of Secrecy, but though the COM- . -e,. .in-see on 4 cic
.which he ha • aulated was this, tilat
leturn of the number of Exchequer Informations, last Parliament, and had in the end been withdrawn, mittee was teas numerous than the present, the pro- it woulti examptMembers from the necessitY efaati:3
icise Laws, up to January 5, 1819, distinguishing in a manner which he could not but regard as rather position was negatived. He contended, that in ear- the pot:ads of their preference or objection. if fa. n which a compromise had been made, and those extraordinary. He now wished to ask the Noble titular caws, where a Committee of Secrecy was aP- no other reeson, he would for that alone abstain
has had been obtained.
RIDLEY wished to move for a Return of the Lord opposite, if he proposed to introduce another pointed, it was desirable, when the ancient practice from making any remark on the individual moo-
surcharges made on Farmers, as Licensed Horse- Bill on the subject in the course of the present Ses- of ballot was restated to, that the House should ad- tioned in the Motion before the House, further thus
.iguisbiag the Appeals made, an their results. If sion ? The Petition was then read. It prayed for here strictly to the Committee chosen, and not suffer to subscribe to all that had been said in praise of his
bject7d to, he would make the Motion now. the repeal of two Acts of Parliament, which inter- others to be added to the imniber at first selected. industry and talents. He would admit that after
ring
NCEpressed nowLLOR of the EXCHEQUER objected to
fered with their rights as Electors, and for such new Mr. TIERNEY considered the course now pur- Committees had been chosen by ballot, additions em
RIDLEY thru gwe notice that ke should bring enactments as would supply an effectual remedy to sued to be invidious, if the language used on this been made to them, but these he apprehended wee
mien on the subject on Thursday. the evils of which they complained. occasion deserved a different character. In the whole under new cir:emstances, New Members had ia•-.
y eve WIIIT3.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND said, House he did not know that there was one person so haps come into the Iletise, or the articular &mu
LEER bad received a.letter from Mr. Lentz re.
inquiry as his of en individual to assist atthe i. • •
the Bill which the Noble Lord described as having eminently qualified to assist at such an • inquiry in progress
that having been returned for two places, the City
ad the Town of Lishurne, he made his election to been withdrawn in an extraordinary manner, had Honourable and Learned Friend. There was not one hid come to the knowledge of the House after the
yof Armagh. A New Writ was then moved for been withdrawn because those interested in it had Gentleman who, on all questions on every branch ca. Committee had been formed, but it did not appear
Lisburne—Order d. requested that the Bill mi ht not pass till the subject public economy, was fitter to throw light on the sub- that such alterations had been made, when tie
piton of Sir HOMY PARNELL, a New Writ was or- .
had been brought under the consideration of a Ural- ject of inquiry than the individual now prnposed to Leese,
Borough of at the time of forming its Committee, had
P ortsrlington, In the room of RICHARD
who, since his election, had accepted the Chiltern vention of the Royal Burghs, in July. In answer to the be added to the Committee of Secrecy. Ministers, before it all the talents of three full in its contempla•
• question which had been put. he had to state, that it howevar, determined never to give way but when tion who were afterwards added to the Committee.
TLEREAGII moved for a New Writ for the Bo- was his ;
.I;tention to propose the iatroduction of a Bill the voice of the House was against them, wished On the present occasion, without saying any thi..g
wry, in the room of General NEWHAM. 1110 W a Peer
,:,..„:1 ..
''• 3'; .' l• 'db h•cl• 1 their vrill to pass ar ea that ttee.ii .e int roug tin uring tle for the law of Parliament. tie in the slightest degree 1
invidious, re must remark,
dour United Kingdom called Ireland.—Ordered. -""
IK.Ert. thought it might prevent some inconve- last Session of Parliament. wished to know how the Committee, which consisted that the Committee had been tormed with a know.
-‘,.re now to state why those Writs had been moved The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. cf 21 persons, could be damaged by making it 22, ledge of the talents of all its nten.bers, and espe-
had beta eared on Friday, but which, at his sue- Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON rote to with- in order to let into it one of the most intelligent men cially of those of the Honourable and Learned Gen-
been withnil On Friday, it was possible that draw a Notice House? The that he had formerly given. He ex. in that proposition was only °nosed, tlemnn. He thought it wenl.l be inco:iveniera to
:ions might be received, and therefore he had ad-
se Motions sliould be put off. But he had this Phined his !natives for doing so. He had given a because Mr. Brougham sat on ;het (the Opposition) open the Committee a.ere, and if the Learned Ger.-
ten to the Post Wuc, to know the date at which Right lionourahle Gentleman opposite a list of pa- side of it. No one could deny that he was a fit and tlerean were added to its members, this would not be
left Dublin. The amwer was," on Friday night ;" pees, for which he intended to move, relative to the proper person; no one could deny that he was well the only addition that would be required
.
1 cmsiderahly after the time for lotlgial; Ph B cetitions Scot ' arees. From that Right Honourable Gen- qualified to throw light on the various subjects into Mr. 'WYNN- spewed that the members added to
Rattans, there could be no reason for longer delay- ,
ms for New Wrim tieman he lad understood, that three out of four that which they would have to inquire ; and what harm, former Committees were not new Members. In 1773.
ELECTIONS. he wished to obtain would be given ; but last night be would wish to know, could result from the Mo• of the three added to a Committee, Mr. Jenkinsea
;AKER had to acquaint the }lmre, that he had been informed by that Right Honourable 'don being acceded to? If there were in the Com- (afterwards the Earl of Liverpool), Mr. Langley,
over the Election Petitions, he found one Gentleman, that the production of the Papers would mittee ten Opposition and eleven Ministerial Mem- and Mr. Hopkinson, were all old Members.
a Thursday last, as complaining of the Re- be opposed altogether. He was unwilling to, suffer ben, then the introduction of Mr. Brougham might Mr. BARHAM contended, the Onrosition had
righeda :it was in fact against the petition- the case of the Scotch Burghs to come under discus.. be objected to as an expedient to make the two par- not neglected their duty by failing to put in cireide.
ate, and not the sitting Member. It se-as, sion on a motion which might be disposed of by the ties on a balance. Ot this, however, there would be ti: cn a list of their own. He never knew an instance
lot an Election Petition, according to the previous question ; and should therefore,-however re- no fear, as abundant care had been taken of that ; in which an Opposition list was of any use whateer,
er these circumstances, be would suggest luctasnly, witisdrae his Motion for the present. As and even with Mr. Brougham, the opponents of Mi- the custom might therefore as well be dropped as ace
ion should be made for discharging the the Learned Lori opposite had made arrangements nisters in the Committee would only be 7 out of 22. and thew, in forbearing to re: i -az it, did not deserve to
leering that Petition to an Election Corn-Ifor bringing forward a measure to remedy, in part, This was a question on which the House and the be charged with deserting their duty. When they
f that the Petition should then be with- the evils complained of by the Electors in the Scotch country could not but look with great anxiety, as the could not perform d•it -
their duty was best not to per
rout affecting the other Petitions preseeted . Burghs, he would not bring forward the subject to value of Mr. Brougham was known ; and in no case tend to do it. Ile thotieht there was not an impir-
Return, which hii Notice referred till that Learned Lord where laborious research, and persevering inquiry tial man to be found h w o would no: name Mr.
s was immediately made to discharge the could be in the Iliebe. He .soul.{ no: now positively into a complicated subject, were necessary, would Brougham as the fittest man that could be placed oa
.
the Petition mss withdrawn. name a day for which his Motion would stand ; but the public voice fail to place his name at the head of such -a
Committee.
'BAKER had also to acquaint the House, if the Learned Lord would say after what day Ise any list that might be proposed. Slr. MARTIN (of Galway) conceived a man might
Stuart, who had presented a Petition, on could be is; the House, he would then fie on the day Lord CASTLEREAGH explained. be an eniiisent Lawyer, yet there might be considera-
January, against the Return for the Bo- for bringing it on. Mr. S. WORTLEY could not but believe that if •
nous that would effeetually operate to prevent the
arnelford, had not entered into the neces. Mr. BATHURST said, when the Noble Lord had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) King - from placing him in a Judicial situation; and
nisances required by law. When these first spoken to him on the subject of the Papers for were no: a Member of the Committee, it was the another individual might be eminent in Divinity, yet
itered into within a certain time, it was which he proposed to move, and inquired of him if fault of the Gentlemen of the Opposition. If they no man would advise the King to create him a Bi-
the Speaker to report the same to the the Motion would be opposed, he (Mr. Bathurst) had had done their duty, they might have had him in it. shop. In the same way the Honourable and Learned
l then, on the Petition being taken into replied, that it was a great deal too much for an in- The Ilouse had decided that the Committee should Gentleman, whose name was before the House, might
as, the order for referring it to a Com. dividual like him to take upon himself to decide on consist of 21 Members, to be chosen by ballot. In be greatly
distinguished by talents and industry, yet
tbe discharged. that question. On Friday, he had told him that only old times, and within his memory, it had been corn- th
ere might be circumstances that ought to induce
tion was then taken into consideration. and one past of his Motion would be objected to ; but Mon for two lists of names to be circulated on such the House and the Ministers not to name him a mem-
rr referring it to an Election Committee subsequently, understanding the Motion to be diffc- occasions. It was not so now. No list was pro- her of the Committee of Secrecy. He had considered
rged. rent from what he had supposed, he had thought it duced from that side of the House. Had this been every thing that could be urged in favour of Mr.
AKER had nee? to make a report to the right to let the Noble Lord know last night, that it done, as he believed not more than a hundred Mem- Brougham, and the result was, that he for one should
ecting certain recognisances to be entered would meet with opposition, which before he had bers voted—had half the minority of the preceding vote against him. This he should do in the exercise
ose presenting Petitions, complaining of given him to understand it would not be likely to night put in Mr. Brougham's name, he must have of his
discretion,
and if they wished it, he did not
s in Irish Elections. Before he spoke of encounter. been of the number of the Committee. That he was
believe that Government could procure the nonaina-
ilar cases to which he had alluded, lie The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND was out was clearly their own fault, and it was too much tion of this
Gentleman (Mr. Brougham). He (Mr.
aright be for the convenience of the House the last man in that House to desire that the Noble that they should now attempt to get another Mem- Martin)
was not as ame to say, that Ministers could
h d
odd state precisely the situation in whith 'Lord should, for his personal convenience, postpone her added to the Committee, because they lead neg- not induce him to vote for the appointment of that
oners stood. By an Act of the 28th of his Motion for a single day : but the Noble Lord must lected their duty.
Gentleman—(A laugh ).
was provided, that the Petitioners should be aware that a person insituation had duties to Mr. PROTHEROE maintained, that though what Lord MORPETH said, Mr. Fox, in 1797, had
certain recognisances within fourteen days, i perform, which might call hihis sim
away, that were of had been stated by the last Speaker was theoretically
to do sc. it was imperative on the speaker some importance to the Public. After the Session true, it was not practically so. If the Members of been excluded from the Committee then appointed,
hat these had not been entered into, and rose (on the 12th of March), he should be happy to the Opposition had come forward in a body, the by the party warfare which raged at that time. He
the Petition being taken into considera- •-give his attendance to the Motion of the Noble Lord, Ministers would have done the like, and the result had thought Mr. Fox, from his great talents, would
irder for referring it to an Election Com- as soon as it might suit his convenience to bring it on. would have been what it was OR the late occasi • on. have been a valuable acquisition to that Committee.
to be discharged. By an Act of the 48th Lord A. HAMILTON then postponed his Motion To say, then, that the Opposition had yto blame as he thought Mr. Brougham would be to that jut
onl
git was provided, that if the Petitioners to the 14th of Mara. themselves, was not the fact it
; would be more 1
Unpointed ; and, on the same principles which led
land, though no extension of the time for- Sir JOHN NEWPORT gave notice of a Motion manly for inisters to say that they Inns to vote for Mr. Fox then, he should vote for Mr.
had the power,
wed for presenting Petitions was granted on Tuesday on certain Scotch Laws declared to have and had thought proper to take this measure into Brouehern now.
''
rl, a further time should be allowed for fallen into disuetude, and to be no longer binding their own hands. He blamed Ministers for not using Mr. MARRYATT bore testimony to the great tx-
Speaker notice of the recognisances having on the subject. the influence they possessed with d •
more mo ciao:ma
lents, strength of mind, and unwearied industry of
el into, and fourteen days was allowed for -Mr. KENNEDY said, a Commission had been and should votefor adding Mr. Brougham, but still could not wish to see him
in the name of air. Brougham
ise, making altogether twenty-eight days appointed, in 11515, to inquire into the fees, profits, to the Committee. in the Committee. The questions on which they had
pening of the first Session of Parliament and emoluments of' the Officers of the Courts of Law Mr.CALCRAFT believed the Honourable Mem-
to deliberate called for the attention of practical ra
g into the recognisances, and giving notice in Scotland. They had made four Reports in former bee fol Yorkshire had been misinformed on the sub- firer than that of theoretical mess. He should therc-
e. A subsequent Act of Parliament, passed Sessiois. He wished to know if Ministers intended ject of the ballot, when he stated the number of fore object to Mr. Brougham's name being added to
i of the King, called on the Petitioner to binding any Bill on the Reports of the Commis- Members
that voted to be about one hundred. He the Commetee, as he thought it already cont.'
-'ned
wavy recognisances for Counsel's fees, and *loners. He also. wished to ask if the Learned Lord (Mr. Calcraft) was informed that near 200 had voted, too few practical, and too many theoretical Gentle-
erases, and for entering into these the same opposite could tell him when the Comm' • issioners and about 175 had put in their lists unaltered. Had men—( Hee r, hear).
allowed as in the Act of the 28th of the would terminate their labour, ? they brought forward lists of their own they could Mr. HARVEY asserted Mr. Brougham to be pre-
by the same oversight no time had been The LORD ADVOCATE believed a Report from not have got Mr. Brougham into the Committee. eminently qualified to assist the Committee in their
'Cr the fourteen days to Petitioners in Ire. the Judges had been madewithin the last six months, Mr. WAITHMAN considered it to be the duty of
e notice of these recognisances having been which Report had been laid before the P • lance Re- the
House, for such an inquiry, to select those ber for Yorkshire had said, the Opposition were t 3
ed into. The provision made in the Act gent, and was under consideration. He could
not say were best tilted by their talents and experience to blanieTor not putting Mr. Brougham in the commi:-
di of the King, must, by some accident;ewhen the Commissioners would close their labours. conduct it to a satisfactory conclusion. Whatever tee before, that was MO -reason why they should nn
overlooked when that Bill was passed, or Mr, KENNEDY said he was not satisfied with the
arrangement would have been made with answer he had received. ' not believe that the Committee of Secrecy was ap- as soon as they could. Ile considered Mr. Brougham
these recognisances that had been thought Lord CASTLEREAGH remarked, it was not star_ Poin• ted make • •
to an inquiry, but would rather believe to be excluded from party feelings, when it ougat ar
'or others. If }what succeeded in explain- rising if the Members of the Government in *as •
it was appointed to suppress it. He strongly ex- be the object of Ministers to get .1.1 the talent chef
ration in which-these Petitioners stood, he House were not able ro give, satisfactory aaswers ea pressed his disapprobation of the way in which Corn- could into the Committee.
.ere bald be no difference of *Won on every question, of which. they ,bad AO previous las asitteel were 0011,12 by ballot. On the presentne- The Ilouse then divided:—Ayes,- M3..-...Noes, 17'
. ' lie would suggest that the time should formai* the meenrat it was asked. tasks, if ao.prOcedeat had been adduced to justify —Majority against the Motion, V.
,•
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