Star.
London, England, 1828-05-21 00:00:00

pecuniary atrangentents convenient to both, withouvin•
earring the most there penalties. It did not appear to
him that the totaLeepeal of theselasps could at all injure
the agricultural interest. • He fee* he shoold not be
able to support that part of the meitsurein which it was
proposed that no more than.the legal interest should be
r'eeoverable, whatever might be the terms of the con-
he feared, would open a door to great frauds.
ICRAFf said, he should give the Bill a fair
trancitcli‘.rd. TiCshpisllassionate consideration. The principle 'was
vet y different to that of former measures which he op-
posed. He should even oppose the repeal of the Usury
Laws as far as they affected money borrowed on mort-
gage.' It'this part of the law could be preserved, he
should not di-posed to'oppose some modifications.
Mr. A. BARING said he was disposed to concur in
the kinciple of the alterations proposed. He had sup-
ported former Bills, in which the total repeal of these
laws was proposed. He understood the position to bet,
that no.higher rate of interest than five per cent. should
be recoverable in a Court of Law, but that all penalties
for other rates should be set aside, and that he thought
a considerable improvement in the present state of so
ciety. Executors and others would be benefited by not
making the rate of interest higher; but at the same
time, by removing the penalties, he was sure that mort-
gage, as well as mercantile transactions, would be bene-
aced by the proposed alteration. ,
Mr. SUGDEN said, he was friendly to a modifica-
tion of tite Usury -Laws, which he always considered as
little else than a trap for the unwary. But at the same
time he thought great difficulties would 'attend this
measure, for either the law must be evaded, or it must
be followed up, and if a larger rate of interest was taken,
it would in fact be worse than the existing law. He
wished the question. to be left to the consideration of the'
Government, and then in the, course of next Session
some well digested measure,could be biought in. As
far as he himself was concerned, le would cheerfully
give his best attention to the subject. . ,
Mr. BRIGHT could not consent to the unqualified
repeal of the Usury Laws.--to some modifications, how-
ever, he would have no objection.
Mr. MAXWELL said, he would take a future op.;'
portunitj of discussing the merits of the Bill; -he now
only expressed a hope that the Bill should be generally
circulated, and that ample time should be given for its

;consideration.
Lord ALTHORP thought the proposed measure
'would lead to considerable advantage, and was per-
'lisps rather better in many cases' than the total repeal of
itbe Usuiy Laws.
Leave was then given to bring In the ?ill. • .
• • PENSIONS—CIVIL LIST. •
Mr. HUME, in moving for returns of Pensions now
payable on the,Civil List be laid before the. House, said,
he regretted to understand that, his motion would be.
apposed. .Under such cirenanstancesehe must go at
'greater length-into the subject than he had originally
intended. By Mr. Burke's 'Act of 1782, the pensions
could not exceed .95,0001. a year, and . after tife. year
1789 that no increase should take place without a pre-
;vious diminution. In 1820, missies of the English, Irish,
-and Scotch Petiiions.Lifits_ketelaid before the House ;
in. the English list 912,b(itc.ippeared:.. According to
the terms of Mr. Btirke's Act, it • was-properly al-
lowed to his. Majesty to reward the Aserit of deserving
public. servants—the Lijiplicatign of the fond-being
always thrown upon the asionSitlitif of Miniiters.—
'Such Were -Orsibiona of „Mr.lhirke,' Mr. Fox;' Sir
'FletCher Nbrtcfi, siticilber emioent Teen of that time.—
It was not;rhoweiii; denied; that this.,Hotrsehad also a
contrOurovii. siellif•an expenditure- -end he should be
surprised to deny silt a right irObld be,
now istide; His Object in calling forthese Returnalwasi
to kiceitaiii if the toad was so well regulated -as to eh-
'able theedintrY to Make provision for a sore; stab es
had been *greed to the other evening. He • had looked.
over the. list of pensions,' and lie found 'the daughters of
.Dates,-the 'Wine of Earls, and &iris themselves, tee
.eeiying-pensierris.as matter Of grace and feeder...L.'
Hells°. found* the male of William Huikissont Esq.-
.lox 1,0001. a year, -liable- to be stopped under certain
•Circeiristsilleetri :aid, he mentioned his name, because
ch. Osaka could only be granted to hies for EIDONNIC
' public Services.. The-Irish Pension List was very eaten-•
sive,- although• by the Ist Geo. Z. it was to be reduced,
f*T 80,0001. Co 500001. before anymew pension should.
berplaced urns it; it was now nearly. 79,0001. and be
milted why was Mr. Canning's pension to be placed
uiion this fund, it not hiving- been reduced according
to,the terms of the Act.of Parliament ? He called for
the seturro to ascertain what the real amount of the
pensions on the different lists now amounted to ; with.
the. further new of seeing if the, .proposed pensio
to*Mr. Canning could be properly charged upon it.
He did not wish to limit the; liberality of the Sove-
reign, but he 'wished to check the usual prolusion
of this House: • lie did not grudge the, pension to
the family of Mr. Canning; but she was anxious that.
it' should come •from the proper source.. Those who
received pensions- should not be Ashamed ,to have
their names known,; mid on the:lrish List he found
01. names of. men,. :lumen, and children, who had
sot •the slightest claim upon the country for public
services, By the 50th Geo.. 111. the Scorch Pension
Lase was to be very limited.; but in place of its beiiig
,
stpo'he found that connections of Gentlemen sitting in.
this House had considerable pensions both on the Scotch.
and • English Civil Lists. The Scotch List was to be
reduced to twenty;Ave thousand pounds before any new.
pension should be granted upon it, and be now found
the amount extended to thirty-six thousand peuncls.—.
The publication of such things would be the best check
to abuse; • for he was quite sure that if three millions
were allowed for pensions in place of three, hundred
thoesand pound's a-year, it would be all anticipated.
This,' however, was the proper tune to review what we
had done, and commence a change for the better. In
the last five leers be found that pensions had been con-
ferred on some unworthy persons—and if be. had gone
further than he intended, it was merely to lay a ground-
work for his motion. Above two hundred thousand
'pounds was already allowed to his Majesty fOr con-
ferring pensions—and if no vacancy now occurred for
providing for Mr. Canning's family, it might happen in
a year or so, and, at all events, the pension should nut
be thrown on the Consolidated Fund. By the GOO.
IV. above one million annually was allowed to his Me-
jesty for his Household and Civil List; but he (Mr.
Hume) knew no reason why the salaries of the- Lard
Chancellor, the Judges, and others, should notle regu-
larly laid before the House, apart from the actual ex-
penses of the Royal Household. It should' not be for'•
gotten also, that the Civil List was fired in st time of
great pressure, and oo such a scale as could not be '
continued in the present situation of the country. The
pensions of Ambassadors was now more thari 60,0001.
a year, sod altogether 6,088,0001. of public money was
paid in pensions (including half pay) in the course of
last year. And this amount was continued, although
the House bad the assurance of his Majesty that every.
practicable saving would be effected. It must be clear
that while such expenses were continued, the fitaieli.if
the country could not be in a flourishing condition.—