Star.
London, England, 1828-02-12 00:00:00

eeflor of the Exchequer, though he was pressed in the strongest
manner not to risk that consistency which is the conformation of
the Govertionent, and though thr most earnest modeavours were
made to satisfy him that there was no sufficient reason for she
objections be felt to the proposed nomination, always referowisto
bit first letter, which involved his resignation as the necessary con.
sequence of that appointment ; on the other hand, the secretary of
State distinctly and unequivocally stated, not only in conversation,
but in writing, that he ftlt his own honour and character to be so
Involved in the maintenance of that nomination, that it was utterly
Impossible that he could acquiesce in any change. The disagree-
meat then, my
Lords, amounted to this, that there was an irrecon•
cileahle difference of opinioos between two individuals, bolding
two of the most important and efficient offices in the State, on a
question of vital importance to the proper conduct of the &ars of
the kingdom. This was no fault of mine. I did not raise the diffi-
culty. I bad no wish, Goo knols, that she Government should
Dot go on. I had no design, such as the Noble Karl (Cameroon)
seemed to Impute to me, of shaking of a part of the Government.
I hope I am above such trickery as would be accessary to that design
—(Hear, hear.) I am incapable of beluga party to proceedings of so
base a character. The Noble Earl did not impute this to me, I
know,in express terms, but his language seemed to imply it (Cheers.)
In what situation was I? There was an irreconcileable difference
between two of my colleagues. I could not bring them together. 1
could not induce either of them to vary his resolution. What was my
duty? I represented to his Majesty the situation in which the Go-
vernmeot was placed. I concealed nothing. 111 had, I should lave
been guilty a treachery to the King and to the country, and I
should have compromised my own honour and that of my Col-
leagues. I thought it my duty, frankly and without reserve, to lay
before the King the state in which circumstances bad placed the
Government of which I bad the honour of being at the brae' His
Majesty was constitutionally entitled to determine, under these
circumstances, what was St to be done with a view to the promo-
tion of the interests of the country. as Majesty decided on send-
ing a communication to the Noble Duke, and I ceased to hold the

situation in which I 1t.4 the honour to be placed. It Is not to be
supposed that any an could quit that situation without mined re-
grets. 1 avow thy[ I felt them. I have served my King and country
, ice
for 18 years In o e, and lam not ashamed to say—l do not think
I show-any effrontery when I say, that while I filled the different I
offices itistrustird to me, though the presstire of the duties in some
instances was exceedingly severe, thaw ditties were not ill dis-
charged—(Hear, hear!) With respect to the situation I last held,
it vrtione I never coveted. I never stirred a step to obtain it,
beaus., though I am not destitute of honett aml,ltion, I have on
love of power to prompt me to seek for high office. When It was
proposed to me to succeed Mr. Canning, I felt that I wash' a initia-
tion in which it was impossible to refuse the office—not that I could
not but be sensible of the immeasurable distance between that man

and the humble individual who addresses you. He was not a personal
friend of mine. My intercourse with him was purely olbclal, but I had
the greatest admiration of his Talents, and I must own that I resented
the calumny heaped on his head in so cruel and unsparing a style—
(Hear, he.r, hear.) As to considering myself qualified to be his
successor, it is an idle absurdity, which never entered my ima-
gination. But I had
.at that time no just reason for avoiding
the responsibility thrown on me, and I undertook the task of
conducting the King's Government. Under the circumstances
under which I have refired from that elevated post, I bare
secured to myself, as regards my personal interest or advantage,
nothing ; but, as regards my honour and character, everything.—
While I have the proud consciousness of having always done my
duty to the best of my'ability, I feel that my honour and character
are unassailable—(Hear, bear).—l can truly say, that although I
am no longer clothed with the attributes of office, I hope I shall
never cease to feel an ardent anxiety to promote and upheld the
honour and dignity of the Crown, and the happiness and freedom of
the people—(Hear, bear).—lt will be In my power to stand an in-
dependent Peer, and take my humble part in that great and noble
duty. for such it is, of legislating for this great and noble country;
nod in performing that duty I hope to be as little swayed by per-
sonal consideration as I was when in the more ostensible situation
in which it was lately my boaostr to be placed ; and I will add, that
if the measures of the present Governm. at b: founded on principles
of liberality, justice, and discretion, that Government, I promise,
shall have my best wishes for its success; for we live my Lords,
fa times in which persons and names are nothing, but principles and
measures every thine—(Cheers). It has been very painful to me
to make this statement at all, and I was the less willing to obtrude
it upon year Lordships this evening, as it has no very close ref,.
recce to the topics belonging to the motion before the House. Oa
that motion I will, with your Lordships' permission, now Mk.
one obseriation. The Noble Secretary of State has informed the
Horse that be feels it inconsistent with his duty to consent to the
production of the papers ; and I own I am perfectly satisfied
with the reasons be has assigned. I agree with him, that it
would be highly improper to hazard the peaceful termination of
the question now pending in the East of Europe, by throwing the
slightest impediment in the way of the adjustment of that question.
I can easily conceive, that Katie papers were produced, the disclo-
sure of their contents would or might have a tendency to defeat the
great object which the Allies have in view. 1 for one am entirely
satisfied with the soundness of the objection taken by the Noble
Secretary of State. I ant much disposed to concur with him, that
this is not the most expedient time to enter into an explanation of the
grounds of the justice and policy of the Treaty of July. 110 r Noble
Earl may have pushed some of his arguments, perhaps, too far, but all
the cases he cited bore directly on the question. Nothin‘ I contend,
can be more clearly justifiable than the principles of that Interference,
beginning with those set forth its the Protocol of St. Peters-
burgh. No man can doubt that *e bad just grounds of interference,
both as regarded the State of Europe generally, and what was
likely to happen between the two Powers immediately engaged
in the contest. It was felt by Goverament two er three years ago,
that the state of affairs resulting from the war between Turkey and
Greece was such, that if suffered to proceed without interference, it
would, at no distant period, produce strife and confusion throughout
the whole of Europe. But it is said, there is no difference between
the principles laid down in the Protocol, and those on which the
Treaty is founded ? And I will ask, in reply, had nothing happened
to justify this difference? Had no communications taken place?
Had not the views of Great Britain, Russia, and France been
made known to the Porte? Was not the Porte given to under-
stand the desperate dangers to which she exposed herself, if she did
nothing to settle the question—(Hear. hear)? A material difference
had takeu place, and the reasons that urged us to interfere be-
came atronger, especially as English commerce was exposed to
grievous injury, and suffered from piracy to an indefinite amount,
as well as loss of lite, from the horrible barbarities too loathsome
and disgu. ins to be described. We had a case of direct injury, which
gave us a right to demand redress, and if we were not successful by
our remonstrances, we had a right to the application of force. These
are facts of common notoriety ; they are known to the whole world,
and on them alone I am prepared to maintain the justice and
necessity of the Treaty. I have no doubt of shewiog satisfaa
torily, that uo principle of the law of nations repudiated the
course which has been pursued. The evils pressed upon us with
force, and no men possessing in the least degree the foresight of
Statesmen, could keep out of view the more serious consequences
that would have followed. I care not when the discussion may
cense, whether now or at any future day. I hope and believe the
justice of the Treaty will be maintained ; and if my old Friends,
;tow in office, acting on the same principles, bring the question to •
successful issue, they will have the unqualified thanks sod approba-
tion of their sountry, in which I shall be glad heartily to participate.
The Earl of CA RNARVON, in explanation, said,
it seemed some words that bad fallen from him had been under-
stood by the Noble Viscount as conveying an insinuation or suspi-
clan against his political integrity. If a single word had proceeded
from him (the Farl of Carnarvon) which could bear such an inter-
pretatiOn, he disclaimed it : no such sentiment had entered his mind.
Nobody, be was sure could think of imputing such conduct to the
Nodeittount. If, indeed, there was any person whom he would
select, whose character repelled such an imputation, if it bad been
aside it, was that of the Noble Viscount.
The Earl of ELDON rose to declare, that he never
ivould hear it said by any authority whatever to that
House, that the measures of the Government of which
Ile was a member, relative to the East, including the
Protocol signed by the Noble Duke at the head of the
present Government, were measures to be considered
as founded on the same principles, with respect to the
'law of nations, es the Treaty of the 6th of July. He
would not follow the Noble Earl through the speeds
with which he had opened the motion, and in which
he had discussed the difficulties of the subject, both
as regarded the measure of the Protocol, and the mea-
sure of the Tieati, for this reason, that the very prin•
ciple on which the Noble Secretary of State had proposed
to negative the Motion, was one which prevented it
from being usefully or beneficially considered at thin
time. The NOble Earl (Carnarvon), while he called
for the information which he deemed necessary to a
fell and proper discussion of the question, went, never-
theless, into an ample examination of the propriety and
justice of those measures, though the object of that
speech was to call for information, to enable the House
to judge that very question ; he himselt was so anxious
to know what these instructions were, that he was iea
strained from supporting the motion only by the Princi-

pie to which he had alluded. Not-for my We; said the
Noble Eml,cao I understand Witt instructions could

have been given to the Admiral, toptevetif all collision
between HI belligerents, and yet to commit .no act or
hosiiliti (He.ir). I know tbe•Noble E irliDadley) is a
finished scholar, an able man, and, I understand, al
ekcellent writer of a dispatch ; but I should be glad if
he would tell us, how the three Admirals, and Goo
knows how many Comnsaoders of frigates and smaller
vessels, were to go into the Bay of lfavarin, and take
possession of it, and yet avoid all act of hostility ? The
entrance of the Allied Fleet led, I 'his*, to hostilities.
How then could the Admirals be acting on their insane-
tions,only to prevent the collision of the belligerents, and
commit no hostility themselves ? lam an old English-
man myself, and I have no hesitation in saying, that
if a Turkish fleet, or a French Beet came up to take
possession of an English harbour, while an English Beet
was lying there, as the English, Russian, and French
fleets did at the Bay of Navarin, and if the English
Admiral did not fight them, when they came there, he
would never deserve to be employed again—(Hear,
hear). I know I shall be called a pettifogger, if I allude
to the law, and a pettifogger I have the honour to be—
(a laugh); but I will say, that the law, which gene-
rally speaks the language of common sense, leads me
to the same conclusion. If one man holds op his
fist in the face of another, that was an assault,
though no blow was struck. It was what no Eng-
lishinan with an English heart in his bosom would
suffer. When the question came under the considera-
tion of their Lordships, he pledged himself to prove that
the Treaty was indefensible by the Law of nations, if he
had any notion of what the Law of Nations was, asap.
plied to such a subject. If the Treaty was to-be enforced,
the House could not have the means of discussing its
principle until tranquillity was finally restored in the
' East. The Noble Earl (Carnarvon) had spoken of gua-
rantees. If the Noble Secretary would read the Treaty
again, he would find that the only guarantees stipulated
there are from those who chose to give them—(A laugh).
It had beets represented too, as something very wrong,
to give public explanations ; but surely if it was not
wrong in that House, why was it so at an election ?
The Duke of WELLINGTON.—It will, no doubt,
become the duty of their Lordships, some time or other,
to discuss the policy of all those measures and princi-
ples on which each of them has been founded. As it
will be my duty to carry into execution, according to
the spirit and letter, the Treaty, to which his Majesty it a
party, it would not be becoming in me to cast any im-
putations by way of comparison, between the original
measure of the Protocol and the Treaty. It is certainly
true, as stated by my. Noble Friend (Lord Goderici ),
that there is a difference between them ; and if they are
not exactly of the saute description, the reason was, that
when it was found diplomatic representations had no
effect on the Porte, measures in some degree of suer cion
became necessary. I differ in a great part with the
Noble Earl (Caraarvon). I do not admit the right of
one country to interfere with the internal affairs of ano-
ther country, except where the law of necessity or great
political interests may render it unavoidable. But 1 say
that non-interference is the rule, and interference the
exception—(Hear, hear). This is the ground of the
policy on which this country acts. She disclaims a
daily interference with the affairs of miser countries.
The negociations regarding this Treaty have been
conducted on this principle. I cannot agree to the motion.
No doubt these instructions, as it appears by the foarth
article of the Treaty, were intended • to be drawn up
by the Ambassadors of the Allied PO IA en residing in
London. Tney are not, therefore, the instructions' of his
Majesty's Government alone, bat those ag ecd cm, et a
diplomatic conference with his Allies. They *iv,- be-
sides, not only the instructions of the three Govern.
meats, but they relate to a transaction not yet concluded.
If we were the only party, it would he the duty of Iris
Majesty's Ministers to int' eat your L rdships net to
ask us for those instructions till the affairs were in such
a state that they could be safely disclosed. But having
stated my intention, and the intention of his Majesty's
Government to carry into execution this measure, I
confess I am surprised that the Noble Earl should have
asked my Noble Friend (the Earl Dudley) what_,goa-
rantee be had for the execution of the Treaty. • From
the moment I was charged with the commission, which
I executed to the best of my ability, that of forming si
Government, I felt it my duty to carry this Treaty strictly
into execution. In the first communication I had with
my Noble Friend, in all those I have had with those Gen-
tlemen who have done me the honour to unite with nvi. in
carrying on his Majesty's Government, I have invari. bly
stated that this was my firm intention. The Noble Rail talks of
guarantees. Dees he suppose, that Gentlemen who have done me
she honour to connect themselves with me in this service, imagined
I was a person having such principles, that they could not trust use
without a guarantee that I would not abandon them for some cor-
rupt purpose of my own, after having accepted their support and
assistance? Is it to be supposed that the Right Hon. Gentleman,
to whom I understand the Noble Earl to etude, ever used such
expressions as are ascribed to him, at the Liverpool Election?—
If he had entered into any such corrupt bargain as he was re-
presented to describe, he would have tarnished his own fame as
much as I should have disgraced mine. It is much more prdbabl, ,
though 1 have not thought it worth my while to ask for any expla-
nation tea the subject, that my Right Hon. Friend stated, not that
be bad concluded any wholenle bargain with me, but that the men
of whom the Government is now composed art in themselves a
guarantee to the public that their measures will be such as will be
conducive to his Majesty's honour and interests, sad to the bapp'.
ness of the people . That is what the Right Hon. Gentleman sale,
if I am not mistakes, and nut that I had given hint any guarantee
for the principles of the Government. But if I gaye a guarantee to
my Right Honourable Friend, what have I done for the ether
Members of Government ? Is there no body else in the Govern.
merit but my Right Honourable Friend? Every Minister surety
forms a part of it. Every one is equally at liberty to state kis opi-
nions on every subject he may choose to propose for the considera-
tion of Government. I appeal to my Noble Friends whether
they belonged to any Cabinet whatever in which questions were
discuss:4 mere freely. It is conducted on the same principles as
the Cabinet of which I was a Member for eight years, under Lord
Liverpool, and in which all measures were fairly considered by all
the Members of it. I was an meeting party to the greatest num-
ber of the measures of that Government, and therefor* 1 hold my-
self responsible for them equally with the other Members of that
Government. My opinions were perfectly well known. I have
departed from none of them, nor has my Right Hon. Friend, Ibe.
lieve, departed from any of his—( Hear, hear).
The Marquis of CLANRICA RDE regarded the re.
construction of the Cabinet under the Noble Duke as a great na-
tional calamity. He expressed his surprise at the coalkbas of the
Right Hun. Gent. (Mr. Huskisaon) with those whole's few months
only ago, be had declared nothing should induce his to take once
with—those who had pursued with calumny to the grave his late
lamented friend (Mr. Canning). In that declaration it was under-
stood too, that the Noble Earl (Dudley) and some others bad joined.
Yet he found, by the recent speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
not only that no differences bad ever existed, but that no personal
hostility had ever been 'hewn to his dear aad lamented friend. If.
indeed, this was the fact, if Mr. Canning, neither in the Cabinet
Mot elsewhere, met with opposition from his former Colleamtes,
be (the Marmots of Oanricarde) laboured under a strange nits-
• e ; the mote extraordinary, because he knew it was shared
by ethers who were better informed. He certainly could sot
Good/der the ipeseb of the Right Honourable Gentleman cor-
rectly repotted, for that Right Honourable Gentleman was re-
as declaring, that his late Friend (Mr.. Canning)
would, if alive, have set aside all personal feelings, and given Is e
support to the present Government. But he (the Marquis of
Contend.) was sure that, under no circumstances, would Mr.
ilia lag have given his support to the Government of the Noble
Mete • and is justification of that assertion,.he would read an ex-
tract Doke;
a letter addressed to the Noble Duke by Mr. Canning,
In May last, In newer to a speech made in that House. The
Roble Marquis they read the sinner, to which MA