Star.
London, England, 1817-03-29 00:00:00

BIe3PSNSI N OY THE HABEAS CORPUS ACT.

Mr. BROUGHAM begged leave to call the at-
tention of the House to a Petition he now held in his
hand, as deserving their consideration. It was a
Petition from the Merchants, Traders, _and House-
holders of the ancient Town of Dundee, in Scotland,
containing a population of VA* inhabitants. The
Petitioners complained, in respectful terms, thin the
British Constitution had been suspended, and conse-
quern!), that the people had. been deprived of their
best privileges by the Suspension of the Habeas Cor-
pus racr. They, however, laboured under a mistake,
when they stated that England and Scotland were
not placed on the same footing by this Act, as the
fact was, that they were exactly in the same state,
in consequence of the Amendment introdeced by his
much respected and Learned Friend (Sir S.amtiel
Romilly) into the Act—(ficar. hear).—The Peti.
tioners complained that assertions had been made in
that House respecting Sentland being disaffected.
and not loyal, and that a conspiracy to ovelurn the
established Government of the Country existed in
drat part of the Kingdom, and they stated that such
assertions had no foundation whatever iu truth. 111
'this he perfectly concurred with them. He. could
say, on the-best grounds, that no country had shewn
more attachnient to its 6overeign, to the Constitution,
and the Laws, than SCotland had done, and no
country could have been mere patient, or mere dis-
posed to hake sacrifices for the public good. Nut a
single individual in Dundee was found disloyal, for,
on the contrary, the inhabitants of that town had
shewn themselves of the contrary disposition—(Wear,
hear).—No man could regret too deeply the accusa-1
tions which had been levelled against Scotland, which
were solely owing to the ignorant and officious zeal
of some pewits, and which deserved the severest re-
probation of every individual. It was not a light
matter to attack so large a body of his Majesty's
subjects, and it would at least Ov proper for those
who made such unwarrantable and gross attacks, to
spew some grounds for them--(Near, hare).—It was
as unmanly as it was illiberal, to charge a country
upon no grounds. He begged the House would
coustifer by whom this Petition wits signed. It was
by many of those who were attached to the politics
of the other side, and who differed materially horn
the principles which actuated those among whole he
had the honour to sit—(Hear, hear, frees the Oppose-
' firs Macho),—and he was sure when the other side
knew this to be the 'case, they would treat, or at
least they ought to treat the Petition with sonic re-
spect. He again repeated his firm belief, that not a
shadow of disaffection had appeared in Dundee,
atsd he concluded by moving that the Petition be
read—(fleer._ hear).
Lord FOLKESTONE observed. that by the
laws of Scotland. no warrant could be executed, or
was in the least degree effectual in Scotland, unless
signed by souse person residing in Scotland. The

_ •
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST moved that the
Report of the Select Committee relative to the Print-
ing of the Votes of the House, be now taken into
consideration. The Report was then read, stating
tke great advantages that would result to the House
and the public from the early circulation of the Votes
of the House, and that the Committee had adopted
A plan for their being printed, which would be seen
from the Papers attAched to their R4ort.
Mr. GRENFELL wished sincerely that the Mem-
bers could tite exr mpted iscAn the expense they were
At present put to in procuring these at the Vote
Office. Before the Onion, they were always to be
had free of expenses in Inland, and be did not see
why the same should not be the case here.

_
The Report was agreed to.
IRISH PRISONS.

Mr. I3ENNETT considered this subject to be ex—
tremely worthy of attention from the House. The
situation of the prisons in Dublin was miserable in
the extreme, and eel tainly it could not he tco much
lamented that any human beings should be confined
in then.. In a room extremely small, te❑ persi..c3 of
both sexes had been huddled to7ether for one niOn.
The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) had cer-
tainly done himself infinite credit by the humanity lie
had shewn in personally visiting :he anu ex-
amining the varioos cases. With a view to take
some measures ^.n that subirct, he :moved that en 2. -
coutit be laid beft,re the House of the number of per-
sons confined at one time in the M.osalsca I,.isen of
Dublin within the last twelve rrro.tti t.

Mr. PEEL entirely coincided iii the opinion deli.
vered by the Honourable Gentleman who had just
spoken, in the miserable state of the Irish Prisons,
and should be happy to fitcl that any mea.ures could
be talccn which would lead to the amelioration of the
condition of the wretched inmates of these Prisons.
Dublin, without dotiht, required a new Pt ism, and it
would be infiuitely better and cheaper for the Magis-
trates of that Cry at once to erect a ne..v pi Isom, than
to be always eitym.ling money in the repairs of thee
pre*ent wretched im;Ltings. The roma alluded to
by the Honourable Gentleman was net more than
twelve feet by seven ; and yet in it hae ten miserable
humaa beings bear donat:Td to *pass one night at one
time. No temporat y remsNly could be ct any tarsi!.
and he should diet etore heartily concur in the maioa
of the Honourable Gentleman, with ;he hope td
motion leading to some useful measures.
The motion was then agreed to.
Mr. BENNETT hoped that meantime some ..t•
tension would be paid to the manner in which Imol-
vent Debtors were lodged. lie further moved for an
Account of the Fees generally demanded at the dis-
charge of prisoners.
Mr. PEEL would also agree with this motion;
and merely begged leave to state, iliac the Chief Jus-
tice in Dublin had t;hewn every anxiety for the relief
of pa isoliet s, by devoting much. of his tern: dining the
vacation in hearing and redressing their gtievana.—.
(Hew., hear.)--This he w4!:ed to ittiptess on the
anoti,.o was agreed to.
rrarrioNs 'ILLATIVE TO 11113 POOR LA e'F•

Mr. CURWEN, observing that the Committee nn
the Poor Laws aid not comprehend in the r
lions the various Petitions winch bad been presented
on the subject of tbe Pour Laws, gave notice, that
on Friday, the 14ttt of he would submit to Ole
House a million respectjug taose Peti,irmst
Mr. PA Rt.:ll wished to know it the Right Hon.
Gentleman opposite hadia.:q t•l ik)elijc.;,.c,t)ivtem,,,tmuet:t,e the
,f
minuet 111 which pal oil %vete teicct?.d who »ere the
' objects ol the Chanty und
Corporation of the Trinity House ?—The Honoura-
ble Meniher was proceeiing lo discuss the mode el
adnittlisteting that Cliaity, when he was c died
to order by
The SPEAKER, who observed that there was no
motion before the House, and that an or6urneataZive
question was not allowable.
Mr. ROSE, in reply, said, that it was not in It's
power exactly to answer the inquiry made by the
Honourable Gentleman, but that t.e was perstiAJed,
in all its points, there never was a more chastely dos.
tributed revenue than that of the Corporatiot, of the
Trinity House.

siDITIOUS ws•criat.tu'
The SOLICITO lt-GENE It :IL tat J.he Order
of the 111 for Laing into 11,.:hrr cens.ll( tatii.n the

Ameno:nents made y the Lords to the tor the
mmre effectual Prevrtilitm et bedt.iutst, Meetings and
Assemblies.

Lord FOLKSTONE wished to ask the SPe"kee
whether the Bill to wtii:h the 1-301:se (.1 Lords 1)43
thus made Amendm:lts IVA! rt:.t a Yoney Bdi, to

such an extent, at least, as to induce the Honse, in
maintenance of their ancient privileges, altogether to
reject the measure thus amended
The SPEAKER had no difficulty in replying,
that in the sense in which that House understcod the
term Money Bill, the Bill then below them was eat
a Money Bill. In this Bill, as well as in ether Bills
?Mt ACM 4117 Money Bills, these might be clauses se-
lating to nvincy, to which the House could not per.
mit the Lord. to make any Amendments. In fact,
in the very first clause of the Bill a penalty hAd been
extended by the House of I..,:rds, and therefore when
the .Bill COIN ender the co,lsideration of the House,
be gaud., segeest to them the expediency of :ejecting
that Amendment.

The Order of the Day was then read.

The PEAKER then observed, that it was his
duty to call the Attention of the Housl to an altera-
tion made by the House of Lords in the Bill, pr. 3,
1. SS. As the Bill passed the House of Commons
it was declared, that any person refusing to deliver
a paper to a Justice cf the Peace should for .it £5O.
The House of Lords had extended the Penalty to
any person refor.ir.g to deliver the paper to a Justice
of the Peace, " or the Mayor or head Officer of the'
County, City, Towl, or Place resrectively." This
was an Amendment to which the House, consistently
with its privileges, could not agree.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
in consequele.e of what had fallen from the Chair,
moved that the House should disagree with the Lords
in this Amendment, which motion was agreed to.
On the next Amendment, pr. 4, 1. St and 35,
being read, viz. " after holden' insert " and such
notice so given by such means as aforesaid, shall be
as effectual to ad intents and purposes, as if the same
bad been given by public advertisement Mewed in
say such newspaper as aforesaid."
Lord COCHRANE protested that lie lit he
should abandon his duty it' he failed to take the sense
of the House on every one of the Amendments made
in this Bill. It was so essential to the best intetests
and privileges of the couetry that the Bill should not
pass into a law, that he held is to be an indispensable
duty to object by every means conformable to the
customs and rules of the House, not only to the
ie gore, but to every alteration that had been made in'
it. With respect to the present Amendment, it Wnb
not only unnecessary, but actually destroyed the
sealed the passage in which it occurred. He should
take leave therefore, to divide the House on a Motion
for leaving out of that Amendment the words by
suck means as aforesaid." _

The gallery was then cleared for a division, but
the Noble Lord had not even a fellow teller in favour
o! his motion. On our re-admission we found
Lord COCHRANE declaring, that in his opinion
the measure was uttcrly indefensible. He adverted
particularly to the extraordinary clause which bad
been introduced in the Lords, stating it to be highly
illexpedient that public meetings or assemblies should
be held near the [-louses of Parliament, or near his
Majesty's Courts of Justice in Westminster Hall.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
spoke to Order. That clause was not then under
the consideration of the House.
The SI'EA KER observe,i, that the several A mend-
ments in the Bill must he considered in their turn.
That before the House was pr. 6, I. `2B, to leave out
0' being" and instit " shall be."
Lord COCHRANE fdt it his duty to state at
once the general motives wl.ich actuated his conduct
on the. present occasion. That su • extraordinary a
proposition as that to which he bad just adverted'
should be entertained, and mg adopted, could not
astonish those who observed how that House went on.
Why was any mention made of danger to the Courts
of Justice in Westminster Hall ft inn public meetings?
Was there no: equal danger to Courts of Justice in
Guildhall from public meetings there ? The fact
was, and. he said it without hesitation, it was chat
House which was afraid. It was the Ministers, who
felt that they deserved the reproach, and perhaps the
—(The Noble Lta made a pause for a quarter
of a minute, and then added)—indignation of the
people. He told ihe Rightlionourable Gentleman,
and he told his Majesty's Ministers generally, that
the consciousness of their bad measures made them
afraid to meet the people. They were afraid to meet
• the people in the place in which the people had been
accustomed to meet—and in Westminster Hail too,
for a thousand years. They were afraid to meet the
people, because they knew the general indignation
elated against them by their wicked and abominable
Measures, and by the determination which they bad
Manifested to establish a military despotism in the
country, and put down freedom here as they bad al-
ready assisted to pat it down all over the rest of Eu-
rope. The assertion about the Courts of Justice was
a mere false pretence to cover these apprehensions.
A Noble end Learned Lord in another place had
stated—
The SPEAKER informed the Noble Lord, that
it was contraty to the rules of the House to allude to
any thing that might have been said by a Member of
the other Housead Parliament.
Lord COCHRANE said, that he had used the
words another place."
The SPEAKER observed, that the rules of the
House must be substantially attended to.
.Lord COCHRANE bowed with great submission',
to the correction of the Chair, but continued to main-
tain that the Meetings in Palace-yard could neither
directly nor indireealy disturb the Courts Of Justice,
and therefore that the introduction of Courts of Jus-
tice into the clause was timely a cover for the real
apprehension. There was no pretence whatever for
removing the Westminster Meetings to the distance
of a mile from Westminster-hall (with the exception
of Covent-garden), where it was well known no
public meeting could take place without the sanction.
of the Duke of Bedford. Were they afraid that the
people would meet in Witcerlooplace, in front of
Carlton-House—and were they afraid their griev-
e's-ices should reed: the ears of his Royal Highness
the Prince Regent ? He was convinced that Ministers,
with all the military force in the country, and with
the Gagging Bills at their backs, could not long
pursue the present system of governing the country.
He should have thought that the page of British his.
tort' contained sufficient warnings a the subject.._
It was there recorded, that whenes sr Ministers set
themselves in defiance of the people, to bear down
Muir rights and liberties, such proceedings alrays
ended in their disgrace and ruin, if not iu : cir-

eumstances which it was painful even to re t.
In former times, bad Ministers had lost theirld.
when they made such flagrant attacks on the rights
and liberties of the people. He had theeght it his
duty, at the very commencement of this discussion,
thus fully to state his opinion. He had also thought'
it his duty to declare, that lie would take the sense of
the House on every one of the amendments ; but as
on the last proceeding of that nature he had not been
so fortunate as to have a seconder, he should not per.
severe in his intention ; it appearing to him probable,
consideting the great majority opposed to his single
opinion, that in that particular he was in error.
The Amendment was then agreed to ; as were se-
veral others.
Mr. BROVGHAM wished the Right Honou-
rable Gentleman oppos;te would explain which of
these amendments were merely verbal, and which
substantially altered the Bill as it left that House.—
He had not he time to cast his eye over them, and
for aught be knew they might be passing new le-
gislative provisions, when they conceived they were
merely making verbal alterations. The fact vies,
that the chief amendment. the clause prohibiting a
Meeting within a mite of Westminster Hall, was a
new legislative measure, which that House was about
to diepose of by a single vote, instead et its passing
through the vare-us stages—the three readings—the
Committee, &c. by which a n ;let scrutiny of eveiy
measure proposed was occasioi.cd.
Mr. BATHU I.,,t.eived, that the clause to
which the Hon. and Learned
Gentleman adseited,
was the alteration Goat had been
made in the Bill. The Hthtl amendments merely
tended to gibe facility to the operation oft ti c Bill.
After a conversation of some length on the mean-
ing of the amendment introduced by the Lords into
that part of the Bill which related to the Proclama-
tion by the Magistrates for the dispersion of illegal
meetings, Lord FoexsTona ccntendmg that by the
amended, the Magistrates were directed to
disperse themselves—(a laugh)—and Mr. BATHURST
maintaining that the meaning was intelligible.
Mr. raouc HAM representented the risk which
Parliament was about to run, of adopting a measure
nut only without due care and circumspection, but
on the very phrate.rlogy of which such great diffe.
rences of opinion existed. He was persuaded, that-
the (illy satisfactory proceeding would be to print
the Bill as amended, continuously, and then the
House would have an opportunity of comparing it
with, ti.e Bill, as it left them, which it was impossible
to do without confusion at present. Unless this was
done, it was -very probable that they would not merely
commit tautology (it was too late in 'the day to
complain of that error in Acts of Parliament), but
enact rank nonsense, on silk!) no Court of Law
could subsequently act.
Lord COCHRANE pointed out some further
errors in this amendment, and maintained that from
beginning to end the Bill was a mass of blunders
.;—
and were these to be tolerated in an Act imposing
the penalty of death on his Majesty's subjects? Al-
though the Home had been lately accustomed to
think lightly of jails and chains and gibbets, he did
hope that they would not persevere in this most hasty
and ill.judged proceeding.
Some discua-ion took place between the Soeictroa
GENERAL and Mr. PLUNKETT on various verbal mac-,
curacies in the amendment.

Mr. BROUGHAM again urged the necessity of
inquiring, with more accuracy, into the precise na-
lute and expression of all the amendments. Several
pieces of nonsense had already been detected in them,
and who knew whet o'hers might remain undiscove-
red. The House, for the sake et it► own consistency
and dignity, and the interests of the country, ought,
he repeated, to have the Bill printed as amended by
the Lords, and not be satisfied with the amendments
by themselves (which. were scarcely intelligible) and
in order to allow of this being done, he would move
that the further consideration of the amendments
should be adjourned until Moaday.
Mr. ABERC ROM BY thought that the Bill should
be reprinted with the amendments.
Mr. STURGES BOURNE observed, that the
printing of Amendments was only a practice of mo-
dern times. It was too much to say that the consi-
deration of the Amendments ought to be postponed
in order to adopt the novel come of printing the
whole bill with the Amendments of the Lords. It
surely could not be difficult to alter the latter part of
the clause, so as to make it grammatical.
Mr. PONSONBY observed, if the printing of
Amendments was a modern practice, he believed the
returning a Bill of no great length, with no fewer
than fihiy•five Amendments, was a practice never
known before the present day. He did not believe
that on the other side of the House there was at that
moment one man who would not in his conscience
be better pleased, if the House were to adopt the,
course proposed by his Hon. and Learned Friend.
Surely there was no pressing necessity for this law ;
and having already obtained the Suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, they might wait a little while,
that the House might give the Bill that attention
which a sense of its own dignity required.
Mr. CANNING thought the insertion of the
words to command's in place of the word s' com-
manding" would obviate every objection.
Sir M. WHITE RIDLEY saw no necessity for
hurrying on this measure w►th such undue baste, es-
pecially when he called to recollection what was now
taking place in another part of the country, alleged
to have been in a disturbed state, namely, Manches-
ter, where persons were committed under the sth
Charles the Second, which prohibits Meetings for
the pprpose of petitioning to alter any thing by law
established, without the consent of three Magistrates,
on a requisition signed by twenty householders, under
the penalty of 8100.
Mr. CURWEN hoped Ministers would not press
this matter to a division.
Mr. BATHIIRST observed, that a slight verbal
alteration was all that was now requisite.
Sir CHARLES MONCK wished to knop whe-
ther the words " or Magistrate," introduced is the,
amendment of the Lords, would make any substan-
tial alteration in the Bill

The House then divided—For the =Genii of ad-
journment St—Against it 77—Majority 16.
The Amendment was afterwards agrdbd to, with
the alteration of the insertion of the woods " to come
mend" instead of commanding. -
Several other Verbal Amcndmgßts wen, abet some
conversation, adopted by the Roue.

On the question for agreeing to the Ainendment '
on the clause, declaring it lawful to disperse meetings
held under any notice, " wilds shall express or pur-
port that ar.y matter, by law established. may be al-
tered, utberwise than by the authority of the King,
Lords and Commons, in Parliament assembled," to
which the Lords had added, 4' or to such rthet,"
Lord FOLKSTONE observed, that this was an
Amendment of a most sweeping nature, as it left to
Vie interpretation of a Magistrate, nut only whether
a notice rurported the. alteration of the Constitution,
but whether it was "to such effect." They bad
lately heard ct a Requisition attic!: had been sent to
the Mayor of Bristol to convene a Meeting for the
purpn.e of retitinning for Parliamentary Reform:
the :elayor h id objected to such a meetiog, because
he conceived that under reform was meant rebelli in,
and i.e was supported in this construction by many
Reverend and Leaned Persons; and there were few
pulpits in Bristol front which the Sunday before the
meeting exhortations were not put forth that people
should nut atter.d the me..ting, because tebelitan
was the object. They had heard also of a requisi-
tion to the blietiff of Cornwall, signed by some of
the most respectaltio Gentlemen of that county, and
the Sheriff had refused to call the Meeting, because
he was persuaded it could mean nothing less than, the
overthrow of the Constitution. When they knew
that such a construttiLti had been put upon the most
innocent requisitions by some Magistrates, it was too
much to give them a right to interfere with meetings
called by others, by words so sweeping as those iv-
troduced sy the Lords' Amendment, and to dissolve
any meeting, persons disobeying their commands
being subject to the renalty of death. lie should
propose therefore to amend the Lords' Amendment,
by fray /Pg nut the words " or to such effect."
Mr. I'ONSONBIr said, he hoed objeeted to the
clanse as it at first stood, but it was now telidned
doubly objecti swine by the Lot Js' Ameni!inetit. The
IslaAistrates would now have the passer of dissolei;sg
:besting* not only in consequence of words, •' which
tend" to the sitheer stool of tile Goveinment, but for
words which have " such etkit." Could there Le
any thing so louse or inaccurate as this ? It was
surely not fit that Parliament should give a discretio-
nary power wider words so extensive and vague to a
single Magistrate ; for if such a clause wore passed,
he could hardly conceive that any political discus-
sion could take place, or that any public meetings
could be held.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that it the Right lion. Gentleman wrio had
spoke last, had attended to the place where the
Amendment was introduced, he would have per-
ceived, that it was not open to the obktions he had
made. The Riftit Hon. Gentleman was inaccut ate
in else supposition, that the Amendment alluded to
+words spoken at a public meeting, as it only re:erred
to the words inn written or printed notice, which of
course would be the subject of more mature cgcside-
ration than words spoken at any meeting could be.
Neither did the Amendment refee to notices we 'eh
shall tend to stir up the p!ople to hatred or contempt
of the Government. dm but merely to notices pur-
porting that any matter of law can be altered craw
.by authority of Parliament, to which the Lords had
added, or to such effect. The Amendment had un-
doubtedly eateildcsi the biome of the °Liege, to.pre-
vent the poslibiiity of notices impeaching the anther
rity of Parliament, even though they might nat do
it in a direct manner.

Mr. PONSONBY observed, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had not answered his objection to the
laxity of the words introduced. The looseness of
the expression to such effect was surely highly objec-
tionable in a penal law, and a law SU highly penal,
in which the utmost attention should be given that
the offences created should be as accurately described
as possible—(Hear, hear.)
Lord COCHRANE wished to know whether the
words C:overtursent and Coaaiisaion, in the clause be.
lore the House, were synonirnous, or whether it was
penal to bring his Majesty's Ministers into contempt?
If that were the case, he thought the Gentlemen op-
posite him (the Ministers) would fall under the pe-
nalties of the law, for no persons laboured so inces-
santly and effectually to bring the Government into
contempt as they. He agaia assured the House, that
he had that morning given his undivided attention to the
Amendments as they were printed ; and he could not
yet understand in what places they were introduced.
He implored the House, if it regarded its own cha-
racter, to abstain from hurrying through the Bill in
that most indecorous manner. The murder of the indi-
viduals who suffered under the Bill, it it passed, would
be on the head of his Majesty's Ministers, for the
measure was not deliberated on or discussed as it be-
came the House, but hurried through for temporary
purposes, and fur ends not the most honourable" to
those who lair:posed it.
Mr. ABE RCROMI3Y said, the clause before con-
tained the words " shall purport," and the Lords,
not satisfied with those words, certainly extensive
enough, introduced others of much greater latitude.
The words " to such effect," might be construed ac.
cording to the pleasure of any Magistrate • and, to
use the instance of his Noble Friend (Lord Folk-
stone) if a meeting were called for the purpose of pe-
titioning for Parliamentary Reform, a Magistrate
might possibly imagine that such a meeting came
within the loose words of the Amendment. Because
therefore it was thus vague and uncalled for, he should
oppose the Amendment.
Mr. BATHURST said, the Lords had, by a pre-
'ions amendment, substituted the word " express"
fur the word " purport." Some word of larger ex-
tent was therefore required to take in notices, which
might not in an open, but in an indirect way, im-
:e.ich the authority of Parliament. It was to be oh-
served, that it was much more likely that the notices
which had for their object meetings to impeach the
authority of Parliament to enact laws, would be given
in an implied rather than an open manner. But was
it to be supposed for a moment by any one, that a
meeting for petitioning respecting Parliamentary Re-
form, or even to draw up Resolutions, (though he did
' not see how such Resolutions could be framed with-
out involving a petition -to the King or one of the
Houses of Parliament) would come within the clause
(Hear, hear, hear.) 'What the ultimate effect of Par-
liamentary Reform might be, was another question
(Near, hear, hear.) But suppose notice was given
that any question should be ds:cussed, not in wctds
expressing that the power should be taken out of the
heads of Vattamett i at,.. for instance, • whreas the

time was ripe for the people to take the GoTeter.v?.l
into their own hands, it would require the r Mit c!
the clause to comprebend'such a notice. Ileac:wry.
ledged that it the clause had stood as it origina:lv
had stood, viz. with the word " purport," he should
not have objected to it ; but the intention (.1 tFe
Lords' Amendment evident') w.IS to /nevem Twice,
i bring issneJ, which, though net in words, i.o;
meatiitig and intent, impeached the authuti.y ot Far.
liamrnt.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, th it the Leids had
not struck out the .vord pu.rport," but had ,tided
the word " express" to it, so that they had given it
all the latitude which would fair!y t,e contended for,
'even by those who approved of th,; clause. They
had, however, added the wrr,ls " or to slch effect,"
which in effect would give the 1.( ..er to Maeistrotes
to prevent meetings at all. There were Tel few
populous places where one :twice n. Pe..ee might not
be found to dis trot tve of o•ly tuervng of the people.
This was nil merely his t!ictit v there aas an H")
twioh:ti)rahbaide as y
aid ontrya rittjfpneiccta
ttili,lemil.e
tight,
lttie„ri,ol; to theecn.
the House,
duct of the Maelstrom of Gitsgow, that be thought
no popular meetings at all should he held at th,s
time. It was ottet.ly asclets to itursduce the words
" t.o siiLli ttE ct," after the M.vd pur;mrt,"
it were intended to countemioce the :toTosition on
the part of M 4glittAtt'i that :C. should L:
held tor :toss. polo !cal ,nirpose wh.,t:,f%ver
Mr PLUNKE I T's.••l,l tha: c.mcntre,l
his Right Hutioutahie Fuend N.zepoit)
thinking that the A MellJtllvtttb 01 Men
highly improper. It the word 4• pat
all which " such effect" could c . u litter
words were useless, and, it useless, Ste. t. I..tticct.
(Mar, hear, hear) For if words wi.re sturtutuceJ.,,
express notices which hail been already sufficitetty
provided for, elEcious persons, or persons ut heated
imaginations might be found, who might say, that
something further was meant than the first words
could be et:moiled to signify. He was hiendly to
the uleimire boot e the Huose. Though he was not
litesent when it was first introduced. he should no:
now shrink twin the responsibility ill supporting it ;
but when penalties such as those inflicted by the 13.11
beture them were introduced, it was the duty of the
lionse to see that they were involved in no ambi-
guity. buth was the titude, laxity, and unmean-
ingness of t;:e words introduced by the Lards, that
he w..s compelled to object to it. He could not ton•
! sent to allow any Magistrate to act tauter a dis.:re-
!, lion so wide and unlimited.

Mr. W. ELLIOT objected to tile Amendments of
r.f the L•nds, as entirely unnecessary, and tending ta-
t titer to impede than facilitate the mention of the law.
I Mr. wiz...11-JERI:IA, said, the words introduced
i by the Lot cis Mete tieniy ”nonyntouso those whiz%
before stood in the clause; bit ee sani no objection
to their remaining, as they werso4oids usually
serted in legal instruments.—The Qnesticm having
been put, and a division being called tor,
Mr. BROUGHAM said, the arguments again!:
the Lords' Amendment, and especially those of hi;
Ilotioer..ble and Learned Friend (Mr. Pluukett) re
mained neantwtred. The insertion was, as had be.l
well observed, utelesr. ; and it useless, pernicie.:s ;
And it tenaaioed to be shee n that the word "pt:TY:'
meant something term than "to such effect." .1
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bathurst) had pt 4
case, it a meeting were called for the purpose of
dis-
cussing whether the people should take the Gm:t-
alent into their own hands, would such a notice
been oomprehended in the original words a
Clause ? Most certainly it would. It would ice a pre-
position to alter, not any thing, but every thieg, wi, -
out the authority of Parliament. Did the
Honourable Gentleman seriously mean to say that a
proposition for the people to take the Government
into their own hands, and consequently out of the
hands of the Parliament, did not purport—nay did
not even strictly express an alteration of the law
Without the authority of King, Lords, and Comment
Art Honourable Member had said, he saw no übjec•
t:on to the words " to such effect," because the %cr.!
" purport" had been admitted, which meant just the
same thing. The reason why he objected to the
words " to such effect," was just precisely becauu
the word " purport" had been before introduced.—
He would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opticsi.e
(Mr. Bathurst), whether, if a meeting were called t,
pass resolutions on the distresses of any district with-
out mentioning Petitions to the King or Parliarner,
it would not be taken to come within the Clause a;
now stood ? On the answer to this might depeA
some of his further arguments.
Mr. BATHURST said it was not very regular
to question any Member on his opinion as to the 'pc-
' ration of any clause. If the House understood that
the word " purport" would comprehend all notict
in substance as well as words, impeaching the ;4)•
thority of Parliament, the amendment of the Lords
would be surplusage ; and if so, he acknowledged i:
would be mischiev,..us. (Hear, /.ear.)
The motion tt.r leaving out ttie wilds " to such
effect" was then agreed to, and the amendment dies
amended sera alterti to.
Lord COCHRANL said, he wished to knew
whether the Constitution, as by law estabiishe-i,
nie::nt the 11w worth had been tecently passed, by
which all the best parts of that Coratitution had Iwo.
suspended, whether a Meeting to yetition.ig.ent:
those laws might be dispersed by any one .lostiee,?
Several verbal amendments were agreed to, as
also the first clause introduced by the Lords.
Upon the clause prohibiting all Meetings in Fa'
lace.yard during the sitting of Parliament, of c'
Courts of Jostiec, which we gave at full :ere,
our Paper of yederday, being read,
Mr. CUR WEN rose an-1 said he fe!t it 'As dull
to give his opposition to the Ciauw. COvstq.
he thought should understand the I.vh,le purport :4
the Clause, which he conceived to h: rceria-t 1116
danger to the Constitution of the House, as wet at
to the rights of the subject. The Bill bet ire t.ens
had always been represented in that House as a meg.
sure of necessity, and which should not be tarried
one iota further than the necessity required. Suet
was the universal consent of all parties in that i:oiten
and the only question was, whether any necessity ex
isted ? It was also declared to be a meauute to re"
vent illegal, but not at all to encroach on legal :(let;
inns. Such were the principles which had ~sided
that House, but had they been acted on by :5:: et:11
House of Tatliament No.—Ott the contrary
had pa:Acti tut Clause now under cons'ectemit