Star.
London, England, 1820-10-14 00:00:00

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TN44

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DEFEN'CZ-7ENTH.
eceoSintt.ahlittir.mi AP first AIWA' 'of yesterday's &Ai.)
Lord CAR.NARVON rose, anti raid--" My-Lords, it is im-
possible to yroceectone step further in shisediests,projkottiond de-
:eatable measure,
_without having•before ins every particular relative
*to this agency. -Untiiihe transactioas are unravelled, the characters
of all those who had any concern in'the Commission; or were it
its disposal, and under its' aethority, ire pracHcilly
A discredit is fixed upon then's,. whlch is:of itself eidculated to
destroy the case which hakbeen set up, wit.hout.reference,tta the
evidence which has been brought forward in support of the
hear). I cannot bring myself to think that yotir Lord-
ships would, after the establishment of that•which has been just
stated at the Bar, think p( entertaining., for one hour Inure,
a Bill which has been the greatest curse that has ever fallen
upon this coun:ry !—(L.:;te.! cries (if. Hear, hear, hear!) If lam
rtistaken in supposing so, I can say that we are•doing neither
more ow less than signing the death warrant of the British Con-
stitution !—(Loud cries o Hear ! )—and
.uni,lermining all the se-
curiti..s nisional justice, stability, and honour !—(1/ear, hear!)
I cannot consider this nuestion as a minter of drl• law. It ap-
pears from the evidence. which, on one aide, is concluded, that
three years have elapsed since any of the acts to which that evi-
dence refers were committed—a period of such length, that even
if Treason hat: been :he crime allezed, it could not have beeu tried.
It is not a case which interfered with the interests of any o.te,
rot even, as far as I can see, with the. private interests of those
who have entangled themsAves'in the proceeding and wished in
entangle in it every interest is the country. They have brought
odium or. the Government; they have excited a feeling which
can never be excited withont tlan.,:einot, probably, immediate
danger, but danger that never can be small, in a country where
copular feeling must be the pillar and prop of all its institutions !
—(Hear, heard.-7-They have excited a feeling which is sapping
the foundations of all that is valuable an 1 dear to us. Although
I•may have hitherto abstaihed from calling on your Lordships to
pot an end to this proem:din. under the impression that there
might possibly be grounds which made the necessity for it impe-
rious, I can no longer be withheld from doing so, when, on the
wholt• f ice of the case, as sheave in evidence, there is nothing
whatever to warrant it, even as a measure of expediency.—
And what stage for interference can be more proper than the
rresent? If taus charge against the agents of the prosecution
is substantiated, is there one of your Lordships who will not
think that the greatest service you can do to the advocates of the
Bill, to the party int'ert:ted hi it—if such party exists, though
_where I. know not !—will be to rid them of the pressure of the
millstone .which they have got round their necks, and which
threatens to drag dory: not only them, but every thing on
which the hopes of the country are set?—(llecir, hear, hear !)
However unusual it may be in ordinary cases to interfere in the
roadst of a prosecution,. I. conceive that' every consideration of
tsage pr ferns ought to give way in Apse like the present, the
moment you have evidence before you of a system of suborna-
tiet of perjury on .he !raft of the prosecution ! I think that
your Lordships arc b •. •.•! to receive evidence of that suborna-
tion, and that being et.tablished, you will not- do justice if
you do not instantly throw out the Bill 1"—(114 Lordship
c:tedmt amidst !mad charsfrona all parts of the
The Earl. of DONOUGHMOItE said, that he had never
heard st.ch . a speech• on such an occasion as that just deli-
vered by. hia..lsloble Friend. In the midst of a proceed-
ing, which no otie bad sat to investigate, except with the
rioit • painful feelings, but which had not been proceeded in
from other than motives of strong necessity ; and; when only
a .part of the evidence bad been gone through, his Noble
Friend had called on their Lordships to stop short, and throw,
out the Bill ! Was ever such a thing heard of? He would not.
tfauble" their Lotklships with entering into any argument on the
st:bject. It was enough to mention the state in which matters
were, to chew the.intulmitsibility- of the motion tiaade by his
Noble Friend.
The Earl of CARNARVON, in explanation, appealed to
their Lordships whether he had made any such motion as that
represented by his Noble Frienß, or, in fact, any motion at all?
All he had said mad contended for was, that evidence having
b en offered of a system of bribery, on the part of a person
who was an agent of the Milan Coinniission, their Lord-
• ships onght• to suspend all other investigation till that act of
,lariber, was enquired into; and if it was established, 'then,
undoubtedly, tkat their Lordships should instantly put an end
to the proceeding. His Noble Frieud had said that he had never
heard of such a speech on suck an occasion. But "let him she w
nie," said the Noble Earl, " in all the annals of history such an
occasion, such a .proceeding as the present ! and I shall have rio
.diffaciney in shew.ing a precedent for the course which I have
felt it my duty to pursue."
The LORD'CIIA NCELLOR said that perhaps their Lords.
ships would be of • opinion, that the witness should now be re-
called. • • •

The House consenting, the witness was recalled to the bar.
I;Santitia:lOn by Mr. WILLIAMS resumed.
At the time you are speaking of, had 'you any furthee con-
rarsation, about what Rastelli was doing as to witnesses?
The witness enumerated various times and places where he
had had repeated conversation' with Bastelll about witnesses.
ItaAelli also told him, that he ha,l gone to the witness's
c;untri about witnesses; that, he had asked persons whether
thty were willing to depose against her Royal'lligtmess, and
whether they would go to Milan with him ? That he had thus,
one after another, taker: all the persons from the witness's part
of the country to Milati; that he (Rastelli) had told the Keeper
of the Inn of St. Clement, where they put up at Milan, to give
them everything they wanted for yietuals ; that he had given to
ail -his people money—to Raggazoni 50 francs, to Bruzzi. 'also
50 francs, to theoathers 40.
Who: the moues, was me.ltioned, of which you have given an
account, wa., anythig said about the expenses as contradistin-
grdshed from that money ?--Not for the expenses Itastelli told
me that when he went into my country he went in a post-chaise
and paid the expense*. •
I)id he pay the expenses of these people?—There were many
sent from my country, and they were all at the inn where he was.
UK! Rastclli pay the rtses of the bin ?--:-He paid them the
forty franca. Ile paid the expenses to the innkeeper, and they
gut the forty francs clear.
Cross-examined ty Me Soctctzoa.GL?LßAL.
Whete.clid the witnesses go from to Milan?—From Cazzoni,
my country, to Milan. -
How many.miles did they travel altogether ?—Twenty-eight
or thirty miles.
Was it twenty-eight or thirty miles to go to Milan?—lt was.
You'have said something about Raggazoni. Where did he go
from ?—Rastelli came to my country and went so the inn, and
then told llruzzi to fetch Raggazoni, who was four miles distant.
kit tour miles further than Cazzoni??—Nearer.
And di‘l he go to Ca7zOni, in order for them all to go toge-
ther to ?lilan?-11e came With BrOzzi to Cazzonf, where they
dept, and next morning they set out for Milan.
Did Bruz4 live at Cazzoni?-.-Yes.
The witness having answered ti-is question without its being
4nerpreted to him.
The Sotectroa-Grautatt ached hint, have you learnt Ell-
-4,lish since yesterday?—No.
You do UndertitlUd a little F.nzlish ?-I'so, but from the asso-
,:iation of Bruzzi and Cazzoni, I judged what was the question.
Was Bruzzi tent to 'fetch Ltavtelli?He
Hoar long ware the witnesb,:a in going from Cazzoni to Dili-
ko?—.l day. . -
And a day in returniog?—Some a day, tome a day and a half.
They leturned as they wished.
Bow fa: is the grotto at the Villa d'Esft froth one extremity
of it to the other? Is it forty or fifty feet ?—I do not remember
that. I have been in it every day, but I have not paid attention
!O the number of feet.
Do you believe it is 40 or 50 feet?—About )2 or 15 brascia.
The Interpreter said the witness did not appear to understand
:the question. •
1. ill you swear that the grotto was not mole thin 12 or 15
,bra:cia?-1 cannot swear, because I did not measure it.
Will you wear to the best of your recollection that"it b not