Star.
London, England, 1818-04-28 00:00:00

41,
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Sr • . 9•. .71 ..4.16 "'wow • -

persun's estate, he tcuilitainlNbt -Called on to pro-
duce a certified copy of that part of it.
Mr. gANlNb.laid,a.few words across the table
in %kat vesse,NinsAutinOlaat in a future stage of
the Bill he should make some objections to the mode
of constituting the Commissioners, and chew that
there was no precedent for it.
Lord FOLKESTONE was glad that the attention
of the House had been drawn to this Bill, froth which
he was convinced more advantage would result than
had at first been imagined. He wished now only to
make a few observations on one cf-the clauses. Tile
Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, and Eton
School, were to be e.icepted. He was sorry for this,
or that there should be any exception in a Bill which
was to pass for the purpose of inquiring into abuses
in establishments for education. It was, indeed, al-
most an insult to the establishments he had men-
tioned, to except them. He should have thought
that the Members who represented those Universities
would have opposed the exception. It threw on them
an imputation that they were mismanaged. He could
state that he knew a Gentleman in the country who
had been able to discover abuses of a most extraor-
dinary nature in one institution, and that not one
quarter of the money that he had been able to dis-
cover had been returned in the accounts to the House.
He had discovered that the funds of this establish-
ment were mote by 2,000/. or 3,0001. twenty or thirty
years ago, than was accounted for now.
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST agreed that the sub-
ject was one which required minute attention. But
did the House know what the Bill intended to corn
prize, and what was the purport of the inquiries?
On a former occasion he had asked the Honourable
and Learned Gentleman opposite, whether he in-
tended any thing more by this Bill than an inquiry
into the funds for the education, of the Poor ? This
seamed the object, but out of it had grown a Bill
that had nothing to do with the poor. But were the
House to say, that without an abuse being proved in
any great institution, such as the Charter House,
Harrow, and others, the Commissioners were to de-
mand investigation on any private suggestion ? From
whom was the information expected to be received,
respecting abuses in great foundations, that were to
put them into the hands of any Commissioners?
Mr. BROUGHAM- thought the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman did not understand the nature of the Bill,
which would be quite open for discussion in its future
stage, when opposition might be given to the Speaker's
leaving the Chatr. Undoubtedly the measure was
for inquiring into abuses of the charities for the edu-
cation of the poor. Under the word charities it was
not deemed necessary to include the Universities, and
therefore the proviso was introduced to except them;
as it was clear that without this proviso the inquiry
would have extended to those establishments. But

in the main, he must say he agreed with his Noble
Friend, that if there were no abuses, they ought to
have no objection to 4e inquiry ; and he thought
the real security against abusing their important
trusts would be by their coming forward and chal-
lenging the exception in their favour. He would
hold out to them as a precedent the 'name of a vene-
rable Nobleman, who had afforded a great example,
in putting himself in the very front and head of the
inquiry into the abuses of the office of the Commis •
sioners for executing the duties of Lord High Admi-
ral. He meant the Earl of St.,Vinccut. This Noble-
man said he challenged inquiry, and wished them to
call for papers and persons, and inquire into every
abuse. He knew he had nothing to fear, and that
an inquiry into other departments was not less effec-
tual from his flinging open the doors of the Admi-
ralty. The effect had been one of the most impor-
tant changes in the affairs of this country that had
ever been produced since the Revolution. It had set
an example of exposing and preventing abuses of the
public money that had never been well set a going
till his naval commission. With respect to the merits
of the present Bill, he trusted they would be dis-
c assed when the passages were filled up in the Com-
mittee. He would not object to the nomination of
the Commissioners coming from Ministers, only
loping that incompetent persons, or mere ciphers,
w;_uld not be appointed. It had been ascertained
that out of 9.0,000/. a year in donations in the county
of Berks, for the purposes of education, only 50001.
found its way to that object, and the other 15,000/.
were entirely unaccounted for till the operation of
Mr. Gilbert's Mil, which ha.l only succeeded in get-
ting a return of 7000/. and but for his inquiries, there
would probably not have been ascertained the appli-
cation of a single pound. This shewed the necessity
of the Commissioners making their investigations on
the spot, and that they should have the power of cal-
ling for papers and persons. It had been supposed
that great abuses had existed in the management of
the Charter House ; but the inquiry that took place
two years ago removed much of the prejudice that
had previously prevailed, and the more the manage-
ment of that Institution was investigated, the more
reason those who were concerned in it had to be proud
tlat the inquiry had taken place.
SirJOHN NEWPORT alluded to the great ad-
vantages that had resulted from the inquiry into the
abuses of the Fees of the Courts of Justice in Ire-
Lind and Scotland. Objections were made at the
time ; and the Cabinet Ministers wished to negative
the measures. It was, however, carried by a single
vote ; the inquiry had been entered into, and the re-
sult had been the detection of enormous abuses, and
the opening of the Courts of Justice. He mentioned
this, to chew how eager the House should be to have
inquiries that tended to the benefits of the people.
Mr. PEEL admitted that the inquiry alluded to
by the Right Hon. Baronet had been productive of
the best effects ; but the course of proceeding on that
occasion had been by an Address to the Throne ;
and in consequence of the Address, the Commis-
sioners were appointed. The Hon. and Learned
Gentleman had said there were surmises against the
Charter House, and that by the inquiry every sus-
picion had been removed. Bat waat analogy was
there between this Institution and the Universities ?
Did'any nne say that there was any suspicion against
those Learned Bodies ? For his own part, he wished
the exemption had been made more extensive, and
had included Harrow, Rugby, and other well con-
ducted Charters, against which there was not the
smallest suspicion.
Mr. B. BATHURST explained, and repeated most
of his previous observations.
Mr. BROUGHAM, in rcely, adverted to the ia-