Star.
London, England, 1821-03-01 00:00:00

THURSDAY; MARCH I, 1821.

P ARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDING&

HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY vs.
Mr. Spices presented an Account of the Unclaimed Prize-
Money in the Treasury of Chelsea Hospital, from 1819 to 1190.
On the motion of the Earl of ROSS LY N, it was ordered, that
the Committee on Foreign Trade have leave to report from time
to time to the House.
The Annual Indemnity Bill was read a second time. '
The LORI) CHANCELLOR said, he felt it a duty locum.
bent on him to inform their Lordships that a case had recently
come before him in the Coart of Criancery,in which two
appeared as claimants to the title ef Earl of Strathmore. persona
appeared it his duty to declare, that the case was one upon which it
was not competent for the Court where he presided to deter.
mine • because it was one that ought regularly to come before
that ;louse. A Petition had already been presented to their
Lordships from one of these parties • it would be necessary to
refer this Petition to a Committee of Privileges, and he hoped it
would be considered with the greatest possible it'ention, not
only as a matter of importance to the parties concerned, but to
the dignity of that House.—The House then adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The gallery was opened shortly after one o'clock, and .in a
few minutes it was completely filled.
The Settee* took the Chair at a quarter before four o'clock.
Two Mcnibtrs took the oaths and their seats.
A person from the office of the Chief Secretary for Ireland
brought up the Report of the Commissioners of Public Accounts.
Sir WILLMM GUISE presented several Petitions from
Gloucestershire, complaining of Agricultural Distress.—Or-
dered to be printed.
Mr. C. DUNDAS presented two Petitions to the same effect
from the County of perks.—Ordered to be printed.,
Lord TEMPLE presented a similar Petition from Buck-
ingham; unless something was done, he said, for the agricul-
tural interests, be did not know what would become of the
Constitution. His Lordship presented similar Petitions front
two Districts of the Lillie County.
The Hon. It. SMITH supported these Petitions, which were
all three ordered to be printed.
• Admiral liEit VEY presented three Petitions to the same
effect from three different Hundreds in Essex.—Ordered to
be printed.
Mr. MABERLY, jun. presented a similar Petition from the
County df Northampton.—Ordered to be printed.
Upon the motion of Mr. CALCR A FT, the consideration of
the Petition against the Aldborough Election was postpoled
front the 13th of March to a future day.
Sir H. PARNELL postponed his motion, or Leasing of
Tythes in Ireland, to Friday next.

Mr. GRENFELL, having been for twenty years a
Member of Parliament, and having constantly voted
for the claims of the Catholics, he felt pleasure in
now expressing his determination to persevere in the
same course. He was convinced that the concession
of the Catholic Claims would be the firmest support
of the Constitution—.(Hear, hear).
Mr. WARRE referred to the Bill of 1817, which
opened the higher ranks of‘ the Army and Navy to
the Roman Catholics ; and he asked whether the
Constitution, the. Church, or the State, suffered any
injury from that Bill ?—(llear, hear).—Was there
now any real ground for alarm ? Was it not wiser,
that, since so much had been given, the rest of the',
Catholic Claims should be conceded, before they
would be obliged to do so in an hour of public dan-
ger ?Hear, hear).
Mr. BARHAM said, that tbe Petitions against the'
Catholic Claims abounded with calumnies ; and he
wished that an opportunity was given to the House
to express its indignation against such false proposi-
tions alai:grow mssrepresentations—(ffear,henr). He
pointed out several propositions in the Petition now
before the House, as utterly destitute of foundation.
It was stated in this Petition, that Catholics held the
doctrine of mental reservations. Nothing could be
better recorded than the total denial of any such te-
net on the part of the Catholics. To the Petitioners
he gave credit for a great deal of ignorance, but still
he did not conceive how they could be ignorant that
there was nothing in the law of this country which
could bear them out in such an assertion as this.—
But if the Catholics professed such a doctrine, what
could be more absurd than the law which imposed
an oath upon the Roman Catholics in the form of a
test, to call upon them to declare whether they were
to be believed on their oath or not ?—(Hear, hear).
The SPEAKER called the Honourable Member
to order. It appeared to him that the Hon. Member
was alluding to a Petition which was presented before
that which was stow before the House, and not to the
Petition immediately under its consideration.
Mr. BARHAM said, his observations applied as
well to this Petition as to one which had been pre-
sented on a former night.
The SPEAKER begged pardon if he misunder-
stood the Hon. Member. If the Hon. Member's ar-
gument equally applied to the present Petition, he
begged to apologize for the interruption he had given.
The Petition was brought up.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE denied that he was a party
to the Bill of 1817, but he conceived the enactment
of that Bill to be the best reason why no further con-
cessions should be made to the Roman Catholics.—
He denied that this Petition contained the illiberal
and false propositions which the Hon. Member oppo-
site ascribed to it.

Mr. BARHAM explained. What he had already
said, referred to a Petition which was presented to
this House on Friday last.
Lord R. MANNERS defended the conduct of the
Clergy of the Archdeaconry of Lincoln, whose Peti-
tion was presented on Friday last, as being persons
of the greatest respectability.
The Petition was read, and ordered to be printed.
PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF ENGLAND.

Lord NUGENT said, he held in his hand a Peti-
tion in behalf of 8000 persons, the Roman Catholics
of England. It was signed by seven Peers, fourteen
Baronets, and seven Bishops, and a number of Clergy
and Gentry, professing the Religion of the Catholic
Church, and they prayed for the abolition of all the
enactments which restricted them from the full and
unqualified enjoyment of all the privileges of the Con-
stitution. If he looked with hopes to the result of
the discussion which would take plaCe upon this im-
portant question, it was not from any new expecta-
tion that the opinions of that House had undergone
any material change, with respect to the tenets of
their Religion, but on account of the increased and
increasing claims of the Petitioners--upon their un-
questioned loyalty, and principally, and above all,
upon a declaration, which was not indeed new in
principle, although, he trusted, it would effectually
do away with one great difficulty, which had hitherto
offered itself in the minds of many to the admission
of the Roman Catholics to their complete emancipa-
tion. The House was alkare that the Oath of Su-
premacy, for the renunciation of the spiritual pOwer
of the Pope, had been one great bar to the admission
of Catholics to places of power. The declaration
against the invocation of Saints, and the doctrine of
1 ransubstantiation, were justifiable only as it was sub-
sidiary to the Oath of Supremacy ; ancl, therefore,
that oath must be regarded as the security which the
Legislature recognized against the admission to power
of persons approving of the doctrine of the legality of
foreign interference. Upon this important point, then,
he-begged that the Roman Catholics of England
should be heard; and he should deem it an injustice
to that body to allow their opinions to be conveyed
to the House in any language but their own:—
" Your Petitioners have been- accused of giving to
a foreign Potentate a part of that allegiance which is
due to. their rightful Sovereign alone. They have
I repeatedly denied this charge, and they again deny
it. To the King %.re ,wear full and undivided allegi-
ance—(Hear, hear).—ln him alone we recognize the
power of the civil sword."—These words, the House
would see, were borrowed from the Thirty-nine Ar-
ticles :—" And we acknowledge in no foreign Prince_
or Potentate, av power or authority-within the same,
whether zivd, sptennol, or ecclesiostscar—(Cheers).—
This was the language of the Petition, and the House
would see, that atter this the .question was reduceu
to a very limited compass. It only remained, then,
to be asked, whether it was on account of their
spiritual tenets, or their imputed political doctrines,
that the Roman Catholics were excluded from the
benefits of the Constitution?—(Cries of Hear.)—
Fur the answer to this question he would refer to the
oaths which were imposed upon all persons before
they entered upon a political office. The Roman
Catholics would be satisfied, if the spiritual part of

tißt . /.1 17.N1-I'l 17.

•
I the oaths were repejled, that the political part slim I I
j remain. Whatever Political ieneta the wisdom of
' the Legislature might devise for the security 9f the
Constitution, the Roman Catholics wete ready to
subscribe. They declared, again Add again, that their
allegiance was "full and undivided;" and, in proof
of their loyalty and conscientious adherence to prin-
ciple, they evidence the very oaths which were in-
tended for their exclusion. If, then, that exclu-
sion were continued, it would be only saying this,
that no man was capable of discharging a political
office with fidelity who believed the invocation of
the Saints and the doctrines of transubstantiation,
and that such•dpinions had such it dangerous poli-
tical tendency as that the Legislature ought there-
fore to exclude onesfourth of the talent, the respect-
ability, the energies of the empire, from being allied
to the exertions of the rest in the maintenance of the
liberties of the country. The Roman Catholics of
this country professed a religion to which they Were
fondly and firmly attachecll. How fondly and firmly
they were attached, let the history of their sufferings
and persecutions speak—let' den; tried allegiance—
let their conscientions forbearance from any outward
act which would indicate that they did not believe
what they professed, declare for thefts. Let then the
sacred obligation of an oath, so respected by them,
cease to be a bar to their enjos, ing the full benefits
of the Constitution, and let it be a bond for adding
to the security of the British Constitution. The House
would bear in. mind the circumstances which gave
rise to the unhappy enactments to which the Roman
Catholics had been the victin a Let them recollect
it was the infamous perjuries of Titus Oates, and the
unfounded imputation that Roman Catholics kept
no faith with heretics, that inflamed the minds and
awakened the apprehension of the Legislature, and
which produced these persecuting statutes against
that calumniated body. It was true, indeed, that the
injuries committed, in the violence of these feelings,
upon individuals, -could not now be undone; but at
least let the Statutes to which they gave birth, be at
last finally obliterated. The cry, however, was still
kept up, that Roman Catholics would not hold them-
selves bound by any oaths taken with Protestants.—
In vain did they again and again disavow the doc-
trine—in vain was the Council of Constance cited to
confirm that disavowal—in vain were added to these
the universal declaration of the Roman Catholics of
Europe against such an imputation; and, lastly, in
vain was exhibited the picture of States where Ro-
man Catholics and Protestantslived together in con-
cord and amity with each other. With respect to
the declaration against transubstantiation, he would
say, first, that it was intemperate and calumnious;
secondly,- that it affected matters which were purely
speculative in their nature; and, thirdly, if it was
both temperate and appropriate, still it was a com-
plete nullity in the light of a security; because, if it
were true that the Roman Catholic believed that a
dispensation from the Pope was sufficient to protect
him, in the eye of HEAVEN, against the penalties of
a false oath, why did not the Roman Catholic come
foisvard at once, and take every oath and declara-
tion that might be presented to him?—(Hear, hear).
—He should merely say on behalf of the Petitioners,
and in the spirit in which their Petition was framed,
that they disclaimed all power in the Pope, as far as
it could in any manner affect their allegiance to the
rightful Sovereign of these realms; and that they re-
quired, ilforo conseientite,, a power which was wholly
abstracted from any civil authority whatever. Fur-
ther than this it was unwise and unnecessary to go.
The Noble Lord then read the opinions of Bishop
Hoadley; Mr. Justice Blackstone, and Dr. Paley.
The first stated, that the political exclusion of any
body of men could be justified only upon the avowal
on their parts of tenets openly hostile to the existence
of civil government. Mr. Justice Blackstone said,
that as soon as the temporal power of the Pope would'
cease in the British dominions, it would be no longer
excusable to keep the Roman Catholics the objects
of penal or disqualifying Statutes. Dr. Paley said,
it should be remembered that the connection between
Jacobinism and Popery was the only ground on
which these Statutes could be continued ; so that
whenever that connection ceased, the punishment an-
nexed to-it ought to be discontinued. • Such were the
opinions of these distinguished men, If it were in••
tended by these laws to induce the Roman Catholics
to conform to the established worship, the object was
one disgraceful to any Legislature. Instead of put-
ting the Roman Catholics upon the bed of Prccrustcs
and fitting them to a certain measure. of opinions, let
the Legislature in its wisdom acknowledge the sug-
gestions of nature, and leave every man to the unre-
strained exercise of a harmless religious belief. They
asked not to be insulted by a rignrous exile, from all
the benefits of the Constitution; they asked that they
might not be deemed any longer unfit to unite their
wealth, talents, and industry, to those of the rest cf
their fellow-subjects, in the preservation of that con-
stitutional liberty to which they had an undisputed
claim. If the Roman Catholics did net feel anxiously
that their situation was one of reproach and degrae
datinn, they would be unfit to receive the benefits
which they sought. He exhorted the House to legiss
late upon broad constitutional principle;, and not let
the interference of Roman Catholic Bi.ards or Autho•
rities divert them from the important ob,eet of re•
dressing an injured and oppressed people. Let the
few bigots who in this era of &civilization would
tsiin and promulgate their odious tenets, answer to
themselves, their sect, and Cron; but let the British
House of Commons. judge of their countryn.en by
their acts and declai-ations—(Hear, hear). Let tl e
House remember who the Petitioners were; let them
not forget, when called upon to legislate for Ireland,
that in England the Howards, the Arundels, the Ulf-
fords, the Dormers, and the Petres, were supplicat-
ing for relief. Let the House give to those illus.
trious men the opportunity of serving their country;
let them enjoy at last the full and. undivided partici-
pation of that Constitution, which, let it never be for.
gotten, their ancestors so mainly contributed to erect.