Star.
London, England, 1817-04-30 00:00:00

SHEFFIELD PARK: AND YAKIVIN,

TO BE LEI', and Entered on at hlicbaeltnas nix-, (or suoncr,
if desired.)
SHEFFIELD PARK and FA R MS (the Ntinsion
House, Pleasure Grounds, &c. being excepted) containing
within the Park Ssli Acres Pasturage, 89 Acres of Brook Mea-
dow.adjalning, and $5 Acres of Arable, together with the Pound
Farm, on wlEcit fs a good Farm House, 120 Acres adjoining the
said Park (80 Arab e and SO Meadow) coutaming shoother 654
Acres. There it no kind of building or convenience which is not
in be found on thil Farm. It bas beta upwr der of 40 years in
Lord Sballeld a occupation, and has been principally considered
as a :sheep Farm. 1 here is a new built large barn, than:ales,
with lhreshiag axd otter Machinery oldie best construction,
Working Straw Cutters, &c situated is a complete well con-
strue. d Farm Yard, with every convenience and accommodation
fur Cattle of all kinds, Sheep Yard sliedded all round, and welt
suited to the Ewe Flock. Ihe whole of this Farm, 653 Acres,
was supposed too large together, therefore 7t Acres of the
Park, 311 Arable, and t,t. of Brook Meadow, hare been let for a
short ti rose, windy, but are sow In l.ohi Sheffield*, occopseion,
.and maybe trt septaresp again it it shouLl suit parties. Ihe
greaser par of the Pasture Landor this Farm 1. very gg oi, and.
also the Arable Land, eltept s imall pa I et, the Pound Farm .
glee Meadow Leal is Moll goat, arid copal) cof g.ea. r"te•
Meta. It 'signaed luailles 110111 f' • 17 from Brigh on, ai
S 9 Irian. Wesintilielleßridge. Fur particul as apply to kir.l► ate
Land Survcrer, 42, Poll Mall; or to as Steward at &Let-
isl4 haua -
•

HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIIf 29.
The Royal Assent was cliclarel, by dommis.4on,
Arms Registry. the Iribh re.lC! Prewrration, :m4 it,
ar,d to three others of a privateer
. .

Ise Loras Commissioners wyre, thr Lok D elLt
Earl of Su At Tli2t; ar, and Earl 13471ft:1:sr.

The on.sidetation of Bailey's Divorce Bill was
tit: thi.; dJy.se'uni;ht
1 ha cats of the Baria-aell rravage was ortlattl
into con4i-teration on this y fartnight.
Atter di-posing of the private and routine business
.House, their Lurd,hips Anurntd to to•morruw.
HOUSE Od COMMONS.
The SIMAKZR was swnitioned to the House of Pt
return he informrd the H :ter, that the Hoyal
given by Cottitioir to sevtral yuLl.c ai,4 }rival
which tee the L °ids.
Mr. Setjtaiit ON SLOW prevrt.d a Pelitiol
hibabitaiits of the perish of Cht krzl.ut‘h, in t'a, s,itti,
ir.3",•• a Bill i-m• tr. tilt Home?, Inv .silarejug vC.
ut the said paiivh —Olderrd to lie oo the table
reading of the Bill.
General THOR NTON postponed the =vino
had given nOtice, tor leave to being in a 1:ilt nil aboget
mein of Whippinz, oil Female Ulf, riders, to tile 14th

hlr. I-1. Ali11:4t; I ON presented, in armour of
of Persons cotihora In the Psisons of Enzl.uhl au.l '
the Game Laws —firdtred to he on the table.

.Mr. kr.EitcaoNtiiiE ponponed, till Monday,
re.per:ing the CI donuts ot. L:httittpits t.
h 4: . CALVIN.R r presented a Petition troin the P
hallows the Great, itoln.t a MU now in the House I
the tidies in the: City of Loinkn. He tkeerved
doubled in 1804, and it wat rather too much that the
interested iu the 801 l sLos) 1 coati too Parnell:rent so
ear 1+417, to gct them doubled agalu.k—The ketiftra
and ordered to he on the ta:iie. . . • •
He also presented a Petition • (rem the United Pat
Michael Pa:crooner Royal and nt. Martin Vine, t
dr.-cf.—Ordered tote co the table, as were sever d
tams from de rent Parishes in the Cry 01 Loudon:
ME. GRA: l'lA 4 presented a Petition ficon. cite
of bul,lin aga!ust the Lublin Gas Light litlh—Or
on the tabl..

Oa the motion of Sir EDWARD KNATCHOUIA.
the Game Preservation Bid was taken into guiltier e.
and the 1.111 ordered to be read a third time on Moods;.
SALT DUTIXS.
On the (Mt rof the Day being read for the' etond
the Salt Dun, s
Sir C. POI.F. (Tired the Bill, and coirendi d the
would be to drive the fishermen out df the trade they
followed,. and force them to employ tlitZf tai ical
against thu laws of their country ; as the eroh.ibil
those who owe thus cunytiltd to abaudoo their p;
would become smugglers. The peesma at preseut
the fisheries amounted to 20,000. ill ui these migi
to beggary by the 13x1 now before Or 11,11. e; at
would ask, was the E4w4l to be &rived front Ute plait
ward par/inlay, compar.d with the evil w!dch wit
I;roitticed? At all events, the subject was ode which
inquired into; and this inquiry could only be proper'
by, a Lonnuittee up suits. He would not
readiel of the DUI, if thosewhobrou,;%t it forward w
tdsend it to a select COMMiree, instead of rethiti:
usual way, to a Committee of the whole HIJJ•e; bat
not done, he should be disposed to ntbse, as an matt
ass Billahuuld be read a second time on that day sL

"!',le SPEAKER inquired if the tit.uourable
to m:ve such an atnerinitn!
a..r C. POLE then mov:d that the Dili sliouhl be
time that day six months.
Sir W. LEMON seconded the amendment, and
lie rill comained certain rcgu!atios.s which would m
postible fur II.: trade now carried on to be cominaed,
pass into a law.
Mr. i...IIStiINGTCN said, the real obji•ct of the
give the Plshermen, b, way of exphrinieut, au opportunit,
using rock salt In tie curing of hilt. "this had been
success in the Ile of Man, and it was thought desk:
own Eshernien iticuld have an oppnttunisy of doing
Lill the success of the experiment had been a•cer
facility would be given to them ; and the measure
to benefit those very persons against whose beat niter,
supposed to be direved.
A further des . took place, in which Mr. Ec
TREIMIATNE, ..O. GUMMI, Mr. GRXNFELL, Sir
Mr. FINLAY, Lord COCMItANL, and the CIIANO
Excites/us:a, particiratett.
bit' C. POLE, in the Ind, withdrew hi. Amend'
suggestion of the Speaker, *hit, thati.ad of 11t. tit!i ,ot•
Conimutee no stair., the rt:nrc elrellt Cow wr
ter it to a Spec,ai Cnraimitice
Mr. CA L.CktiFl tea this nrca,inn at ex; eras
by thrseveriug su histypositson to tne dal I ots
•it ernt,n4 to vt. I.e.' and Oust: %Ow ..c v..th
.ventiod.y succeed, and at a pitiod not in,:re sem
twat Sawn* of Parliament, iu reiternug the Pul
burden tit which they bad at prcit,ut L 4/

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IN .3
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).:1E "Y for.
4EI 11..ir0. DEa;
Futility in Di..
I Ituretey,thii -
i'safiX In the
he Committee' '
lastitution writ
EGEIiI..
ELSE I'.
J C.arriugtow
o,
Bar.
ry, Bak BB 10.
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Est.
Angier •
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Wallis, Esti.
neon. ISt. to bib •
of the liedeir. • •
1.
Vol. weo.
-ft EVOLtt•
rents Catilltctid
Ireton.), &lola
Le last of tlsces
V, and Browns
9INGS.
on, to file 1141
o,e Cuc:.in•al
oNcett.oa, die
is farther post-
▪ be t:.ico
ness befote the
•
Pees. On Itls
ig.,.nt 112,1 been
rate
I from eertalo
;011ty Surrey}
t..e Weoral '
I of itsitich
,flea thr
!tit of /41Ji.
of the nanihei.
1 uudut
ay, his motion
Parish of AU. •
e lot im.reating.
they bko
the Cele leaven
tet SOWS of the
tibon was read '
Parishes of St.
to the- same
; •
•
he Cerre4ll4 •
Ordts..4 tolls
• .1, .
.the.P4Part
r
4ontlat.
:ond rebatit tY
. ,
the effect of it. •
they at pre.aot .•
▪ end rude-art
bill y was:llW •
prol...nt
out oeetipiel in
fight be raved •
and aat,, tett
au brought for. •
svJuld toes to
,ich ought tote
Jfaly conducted
O. the tete:: I
I W. re .!i4i.g441
ing it, in tLe
it dii. were
11•11...thsenr, :Lae.
six teltPrithli
Iru3et intectitil - •
le read
and eontcrutat
make Is
red, if It shoal.,
he Bill was so
oeportunity
seen triad wi.a
Arable that
ists the same.—
er ailiesi.
.e
uteri:btu it
ECLItI'ON,
I. Act. 1,1•• t
s;cl.ltea ut. ate •
tid•itteire at the
,ke Via to 4
WOO,: bu tore.
.s a hope, that,',.
, is. teb he Vl
1311 We i.l
CAIRO(' 'Jinn th.:
elute Irons t'se
au. :Is caul-


may looked forward to tee It not commuted. but &bungled
Iliottether. The RIII was then read a second taus% sad entered
ex be committed nn Monday be'ciriglit.
FINANCE. •
• Mr. PI; EL moved, Oat the several Estimateefor
• the miscellaneous servie, s of Ireland, now beforethe
House, sl Id h. ,eferred to the Finance Committee.
Mr. TIERNEY wished to know when the Filmic'
Committee' were expected to Report on the Income
• and Expenditure of the country They were at pre.
sent occupied with the Ordnance Estimates of the
Army, and having disposed of them, they proposed
' to taki• tip those of toe Navy, sn that he apprehen-
ded sonie weeks most elapse before they would make
another Report could wish t,. ask the Charrcel-
lor of the Exchequer if he meant to talc hien in
the present year, or if be had any intentin find-
ing Exchequer B•Ils ? It was rumoured tto he did
n t propose t. du either. and it this were the fact,
the House most see how important it was that they
should be made acquainted with the Right H•mour-
shit Gentleman's lie w scheme 'if fin ince. That a
lame sum must in some way be raised for the service
of the year, was that which could not ha disputed,
but he thought the House ought not to wait for the
Report of the Committee otisestimates not yet refer.
red to th.m, before they were put in possession of the
Right Honourable Gentleman's plan. It they did
finis, he visited in press upon the Home at what
very late period of the Session they must enter upon
the discussion of the finances art the country.
Mr. 1). G I L UER I' said, it was true the C4mmit.
tee were at present occupied with the Ordnance Esti-•
mates. hut orders, in the mean time, had been given
ti fhe proper officers to prepare the Estimates tr. the
Income and Expenditure of the present and next year,
• to be laid before OEM. It was the object of the
Committee, when the Ordnance Estimates were dis-
rosed of, to proceed .without delay to take up those
two in ; ; ;ii, blanches of the inquiry-.the expendi-
' tore awl silsonie or the country. 1 ise Estimates it
• *as otcrs,Ary to go through with first, to form the
ground work of their subsequent proceedings. and
these before them it would soon be in their power to
report to the House.
Mr. TIERNEY remarked, it was clear what must
be the result—a great issue of floating securities of
some description or other. It was, however, proper
that the House should know in what way the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer proposed to provide fur the
service of the year, and above all, what amount set
Exchequer Bills bad been purchased by the Bank, of
which they had at present no account.
The CHANCELLOR of she EXCHEUER
was desirous of expediting, bf every means in his
power, the proceedings of the Finance Committee.
It was, however, obvious, while occupied with one
particular branch of the inquiry, they could not give
their attention to other parts of the subject, so as to
be able to report on the probable expenditure and re.
venue of the country, till the Estimates had hero
successively brought before them, and till they had
bad an opportunity of examining those petssnc who
were capable of giving them that information on
which their Report must be grounded. They were
Dew taking the course necessary to put them in pus-
'session of such information as would enable them to
hem an opinion on the objects referred ty.
Mr TIERNEY observed, thustexaminations on
which their Report was to be made for the intermit-
tion of the House had not yet begun. Such. was now
' sof nutted to be the situation in which matters stood.
The House would remember how he had been scouted
when this Committee was moved for, on his propos-
ing that two Comm-Vass should be formed instead of
• one. Had the course he recommended been then
pursued, at this day they would have had a general
view of the state of the country before them. Now
ho'would defy any man to say such a statement could
'be brought forward Tor discussion earlier than in the
*otitis 01 June.
The ESUMA es for the Miscellaneous Services of
Ireland wire referred to the Committee of Finance..
• THIRD IaCitiTARYOI oTATS
. Mr. TIERNEY rose to resume a motion he hod
'made last year. namely, for a Committee to enquire
• into the propriety of abolishing the office of Third
Secretary of State; and he did so, because be had no
chance when the subject was left to the opinion of the
House, for Gentlemen then heard only assertion on
-each side. The *lotion he would conclude with had
already the sanction of the Treasury, although they
.stot be aware of it—for last year they had ap-
pointedA Committee. viz. Mr. Sturges Bourne, Mr.
lieskisson, and Lord Castlereagh, to consider what
offices might be abolished which bad only originated
it the war. Now. this office was created in 1794, and
therefore sprung outof the war ; yet these three Corn-
toissioners neglected to recommend this office to be
Abolished. lie did not mean to say that the business
ie colonies was'not great, but he contended that
office was not the place for transacting the busi-
of the colonies. 1 his office was considered by
.. Burke as an excrescence growing out of the ne-
cessities of the ease. In 1802, the business of the Co-
es was transferred front the Home Secretary to
War ; and then it grit the name of the War and
Colonial Officeii-i-a name which seemed to bid fair.for
ance. This otsght to have carried but-half
. but it fanlight with it a whole one; and as the
business of the office was over, he thought now
might get rid of the. remaining half.—lf the Co-
had not increased since 1792, there would be
fficulty in getting rid of this obnoxious half of
office. There were nine additiohal Colonies and
mac ; and suppose those Colonies bad been ceded
Treaty of Peace, would any man have said, ttiat
woula then have required a new Secretary tit
to manage them and if so what more neces
was there for a Third Secreiary to manage theta
His proposal was to throw back the business
Colonies to the Home Secretary's office, as the
of Portland had, at the time he was at the
of the Executive Government, the stamp anent
Aliens, the Militia, and the whole Irish Cones-
.pondeace, when that country was in a state of rebel-
lion. Let Gentlemen consider those duties, andihen
- if the present Secretary could have so much busi.
as to prevent him from eating, drinking, and
Ott
The Duke of Portland never complained
4st haven* too much to do. Let them examine Lord
,ichester, and it he said the Colonies were taken
his Ake in 1801, at his request, because be had
uch to do, then be (Mr. Tierney), would shut
truth, and never speak but in taereor of a Third
sectary. Lord Sidmouth could not now complain

of Irish Correspondence, er the Militia, or Aliens.;
Fend; indeed, the Office of tie Home 'Secretary
was no ping now but a Genefil Police Office.—
The Abolition of this Office wbuld be a saving of
412,(x00 to the country; but the Finance Committee
had paid no at entina to it. Besides, by abolishing
this Office, the country would also save arlOtX) a year,
which might be granted to the Secretary in twas years
:nom His conscientious conviction was, that the
lousiness of the Colonies would not be too much (if
transferred) for the Home Department. The Cape
of Good Hope, Ceylon, and the Mauritius, might
well be transferred to the superintendance of the
Board of Controul, for they came naturally under its
guidande. Then there would remain but six Colonies
:o be transferred to the Home Secretary's office.—
l'hus £1'2,000 would easily be saved, aniglit be
applied to many other uses. The ComrMe would
examine Lords Chichester and Spencer, and others;
And he was sure they would obtain a body of evidence
w. licit would sbew that the office of a third Secretary
State was totally useless. He ridiculed the labours
of the Finance Committee, and called their Report
an old vamped up Report ; and that where they re•
commended to abolish one office, they recommended
to establish a new one. He was afraid no good
would be effected by that Committee, and he there-
fore called on the House to assist him in the great
wok of economy. 'They would stop short of their
du. y if they did not measure salaries by the absolute
qa inti:y of labour performed. It wits a miserable
thing to throw them•back 10 per cent. out of salaries
of eteat Otfic vs of Stare, which salaries no nun
could thiok too high.. There would be a difference
between our Iticam and Expenditure for the year of
not less tl•an 14 millions; and how that was to be
made good Goo only knew, for he did not. This
saving of sel2,o(kl would he nothing to 14 millions,
but it was beginning at the right end: for it was
easy to disciiinge a number of poor Clerks. What
he wanted was, that all Offices that had nothing to
do should be abolished, and not those which per-
torrard loge duties for their salaries. If there Was
a real economical Treasury, much saving might be
made by the consolidation.of ethics in this way, in-
stead of being drivel, by webs of weather to abolish
them. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Cornwall,
the Master of the Milo, and the Treasurer of the
Navy, oil& now to do something for their large
salaries. The grossest pretences were made to keep
up those Offices ; and. indeed, there was no more
necessity for a Third Secretary, than there was for •
Third Archbishop. II they did not consent, to prim-
tie: economy, all the suspensions of the Habeas Cor.
pus Act they could devise, would not prevent a julti-
&hie atscontent in the country He then moved—
" Tbat a Committee be appointed to take into consideration
the humans to be transacted by the Secretary of ita•v for the
War and Colonist Department, anti to raper.: their opinion wits •
timer the said peke wa. &sty longer accessary, and whether the
duo. sto it might, wlbout inconverdince to the i.ublic serviee
he transferred to whet Departments, and with whit diminution
of charge."

Mr.-GOULI3ORN, in rising to make some obWr-
dons upon what had fallen from the Right Honour-
able Gentleman, said, he find certainly no personal
right to object to the Motion that had been made;
and he was quite teady to suppose that the Right
Honinrable Gentleman had submitted it without re-
ference to personal considerations. The propisitipo
was for a Comm tier, in point of krm ; but fie wits
warranted in looting upon it. as for the abolition of
the office of Colonial Secretary in point of fact—
(Holm Lear.). Gentlemen on the other side never
made a Motion foe Inquiry, without meaning aboli-
tion—(Hear, Itear.) He should, therefore, not stop
to inquire whether it was necessary to appoint a se
parate Committee, while a Committee consider-
ing what Offices might be abolished was sitting, but
address himself at once to the question on its merit;
With respect to that Committee, howereri he must
say, that if the Report it had presented were ma,
satisfactory,Geotleroati on the other side of the House'
might to charge it upon themselves for not lending
the Committee their assistance. After refusing to
do so, he thought objections came from them with a
very ill grace. Before any person could agree to
the abolition of the office of Third Secretary of State,
he must satisfy himself that them was no present
business sufficient to.-occupy that department, and
that what there Was might be transferred to another.
Both
.these suppositions were fallacious. He (Mr.
Goulburn) should not, in order to prove this, enter
into a detail of the number ot letters received in the
Colonial Office, which might be open to objections,
and to the witticisms of the Right Hon. Gentleman,
*as former details had been; but he should take the
pages of the books of office for comparisen,.of which
it appeared, that in the fourteen years from 1768 to
1782, there were 9139 per annum ; audio the fourteen
years from 1802 to 1816, there were 6068 pages per
annum devoted to the affairs of the same colonies. In
both instances he had taken the wane twelve Colonies.
It might be said that this increase was to be aitri- I
buted to the war, which had now ceased, but only a
small share of 'it could fairly be placed to that ac-
count; for, between the last year of peace and the
preceding one of war, there was not a difference of
more thaulvo hundred pages of entry. The inmate
of business in the Colonial Office had arisen since
1808, and principally since 1806. The facilities el
popular education, which now' enabled persons of
every rank ot life- to communicate their grievances,
and to write about their affairs to the Office, was the
great cause of it. But there were other causes : since
the year 1808. the Act for the abolition of the Slave,
I Trade had created lull employment for one person.
Constant vigilance and exertion were necessary to'
shear that we were sincere in the expression of our
wish ro abolish this trade—a vigilance necessarily ex-
tended beyond the Coast of Africa. Colonial mea-
sures, arising out of the Slave Trade abolition, had a
claim upon the attention of the department, and no
little case was necessary in reference to the legisla-
tion of separate colonies; in watching the feelings
and interests of colonists, and securing, point by
point, those ameliorations in the condition of the
slave population, which could only be secured point
by point. This part of the business had increased so
much, that Government could not, in his opinion,
abolish the office, whatever might be their disposition,
to reduce the public expenses. He was confident
too. though it was hardly a consideration with which
he had any thing to do, that there ;vas as other
public department with sufficient time and leisure
to abstract torn its own immediate (hides, fat the
transaction of all the business ot the colonies. It

was moreover of importance, as k appeared td bias,
to have a re_sponsible Minister for -the Coloniesr-
The Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Tierney)
had been good enough to compliment him (Mr.
Goulhurn) and say that he night conduct the busi-
ness under the head of some other department; but
the same argument might be applied to every other'
office, so as to leave Government in the hands of one
principal, with a number of agents moving the diffe.
rent departments of the State under him. Free dis-1
cussion was considered the cause and the protection
of our liberty, but it the number of Cabinet Mini-
sters were to be reduced in this manner, where would
be die security arising from_the deliberations and dis-
cussions of the heads of the Government ? The Co.
lonics could not be heard in. that House by their Re-
presentatives, but they ought to have an establish-
ment which should represent them, and
.through
which they might be heard. He caul I not surprise
that the House, for the sake of saving re 12,000 a.
year, would wish to leave the Colonieswithotit a re-
sponsible head; and because he thought the abolitibn
this office would lead to the misgovernment of the
Colonies, and be productive of greater disadvantages
than could be compensated by the saving of the sa-
lary befogging to it, he should oppose the motion.
• Mr. MARRYAT 1' said, in 1768, a change took
place from the safe road of experience, and Govern-
ment b •gan to wander in the mazes df experiment.
A thud Secretary of State wit iippointed, and Ame-
rica had been alienated from the mother-country for
ever. Some Statesmen were like gentlemen farmers;
and the same results were likely to follow the experi-
ments of the present day.
Mr: GOULBURN rose to order. He thought the
Honourable Member was not addressing himself to
the question before the House---(Order, order).
Mr. MARRYATT proceeded. Under the former
system, he observed, it was not necessary to send gar-
risons from this country to protect the inhabitants of
our colonies, as was the case at present. The reve-
nues of the colonies were the property of the Crown.
Parliament had no controul over them, and he need
not say, there was an end of the liberties of the pen.
pie, when the Crown could collect taxes from them
without controul. Persons who were engaged in the
administration of despotic authority in the colonies,
afterwards came back to the mother country; and he
would put it to the House how tar their temper and'
!sabots would amalgamate with the spirit of our in-'
stitutions, it it so happened that they were 'clothed
with authority here ? In Trinidad lately, a Procla-
mation had struck at the titles of every estate; it de-
dared them forfeited, but offered to renew them upon
the payment of a fine of sgloo, by each proprietor
These objections he made to the system and not to
indiv•cluals. Tn.: Colonial office was rather an office
of transmission. • Le:ters were-received aqd taken to
pieces -there, and rhen referred to diffeterft *cfejiart-
metal; so that hositiers has thus much multiplied.
He had the authority of the Commissioners appointed
by :I e Lords of the Treasury to the fact th L. this Was.
impolitic and profligate ; for, in the case of the
Commissary-General, they had reported that more
trouble was occasioned by the form of referring bu-
sines to different offices than would be necessary to
transact the nasinessitsell. From a variety or con-
siderations, but chiefly from the Constitutional ones
to which he had adverted, he should give the propo.
iation of the Right Honourable Gentleman his cor-
d;ar support.
Mr. MOWN thought this was not the propertmo-
ment to eLter into a consideration of the particular
topics which had been touched upon in the course of-.
the debate. When-the moment arrived, his Honour-
able Friend who spoke last would probably have his
coocurrence in most of hii conclusions upon our co-
lonial po.icy. But he should do himself injustice if,
connected as he was with the colonies, and knowing
the way in which the business of the Colonial De-
partment was transacted, lie did nut declare it as his
decided opinion that the superintendence of so im-
portant an establishment was sufficient to engage the
undivided attention of one Head of Department.
Mr. Pitt and Mr. Fox, differing as they did in other
things, concurred in the expediency of giving the
Colonies separate estates. Nut only property but life
depended on the nature and quality of measures pur-'
sued with the Colonies, and he thought the Home
Secretary could nut possibly give them sufficient at-
tention. He would naturally attend most to the af-
fairs near home and neglect those at a dillance. Con.
netted as be (Mr. Brown) was with the West Indies,
he happened to know the difficultiee of the Registry
Bill in one of the Colonies wets removed, and the
local authorities were conciliated by the conduct of
the Noble Lord (Bathurst). And as a change in,
the department of that Noble Lord might weaken the'
confidence of the Colonies in the Government at
home, he should vote against the motion.
Mr. BARHAM entirely differed from the opinion
of the Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, thaF
the confidence of the Colonies would be weakened by
such a change as the motion contemplated. It was
not a question of my Lord Bathurst. my Lord Sid.
mouth, or the Honourable Colonial Secretary oppo-
site, but whether the business of one office could not
bas well transacted in another.—( Wear, bear)? He
was satisfied that nothing of Any weight could be said
against the motion, or,the acuteness of the Honour.
able Secretary would have mad, the most of it. An
important saving was proposed, and the House, he
thought, could not forbear going into Committee to
examine whether it could be consistently made or not.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY, alter having attended to all
that had been said, could not find the arguments of
his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Tierney) answered. He
WAS satisfied they were unanswerable ; nor would he
weaken their force by going over them. The argil.
ment that had been drawn from the number of pages
of entry in the Colonial Office might be very good to
thewahe employment of clerks, but did not establish
the necessity of a third Secretary of State; nnr was
it less preposterous to found an apology for this office
on the efforts' of Mr. Lancaster and Dr. Bell—(Near,
Aear). Every means, however trifling, should be at-
tended to for lessening the public burdens, and if ever
there was a time when this office might and ought to
be abolished, that time was the present. He should ,
-support the motion of his Right Hon. Friend.
• Mr. WILBERFORCE said, we owed it to out
great and impottent Colonies to see that they were
well governed; and however acceptable the ;imposi-
tion ut the Right Hon. Gentleman of saving al 2,0(X)
a year might be, and his was obliged to bun for the
,proposition—(hoer, Wulf • isoga)—it would be a bad

bargair to safe this by tbe.sacriece of srt actjee
efficient Government. fie was of opinion thai ,
business of the Colonial Offite could not j ine,l
that of another office with advantage to the
and be should vote against the motion.
Mr. J. SMITH wished to recal to the ec lleri
of the House, that during the time of the Dote
Portland, tl:e Istoidess was done without a 'hoofs,
cretaty, and there wt re no complain:, of th, wan;
one. Mr. L3urkc coesidere ', that all the business;
the Home, Foreign, and C. lonial Departments togi
be done by two Secretaries ; and at the presentbm
the two former could have but little comparaiivelv
The re eons which had been given for the a"
lition of this effice had not been obviated by any .IL
..sg
that bad fallen in the course of the debate. And Ls
should, therefore, support the motion,
Lord MILTON said, his Hon. Friend (Mr.
berlurce) had added one to the many speeches he hei
made for economy, and had promised one to e.e
nutty votes he had given for prodigality. Heseemsl
to think that much government was good gevernmene
but they were not always the same thing. (Bear)
He agreed with a Hon. Member, that the arbitrary
legislation of the Colonies was not a good school tur
legislating at home. (Hear, hear.) While he was upoe
this subject, he must say he was anxious that the Co-
lonies should be enquired into. He had a no:ion th:t
great prodigality prevailed in them, and per.,in: is
this country deceived themselves, it they imaeiilie
they had no interest in the matter, because the Cr-
Jetties had distinct revenues. It there was (id:.
ciency. they looked to the mother country to make it
up. It was singular that the Itepert 01 the
tee, which had been laid en the omit., had taken L.,
notice of the offices of Secretaries of State. '!'iris;:
could not but consider a dereliction of duty. espe-
cially after the attention of the House kid torn oiled
to it last year. As the Cummetee, therefore, had Le.
glected it, it was the duty of the House to ewer upoi
the enquiry fur itself.
Mr. PROTHEROE admitted, that those who hat
any doubts upon. the subject would be fully jiis':fi::d
in voting for the motion. But he was decidedly of
opinion, that the abolitiqn of the office in queetion
would be the worst species of economy that could bi!
adopted. He should therefore vote against the oie
potntraent of a Committee.
Mr. PONSONISY observed, that an Honourable
Member behind him, so far from wishing to ahnlish
the affice of Third Secretary, secured desirous ef
creating a fourth ; fer Le stated the business arising
Iromelse. Colonies to be so very considerable And im-
portant, that a superior Officer was nece,se) ha that
'department alone—(Hear, hear, hear.) This wes not
the only ground on which he conceived such an ap-
pointment necessary; these was another reason be.
sides the task of legislating for the Col :tees, which
would dictate the creation of this new officer, mid tiler
reason arose from tt e fact of the Ni.. 61,.• Secretary
having written a conchs itory letter to the Celniecs in
the coot se of the last year--(erear, hear, hear.) I 3 t
he was not aware that it had been telt to be pet
of the recurring duty of that department to send cat
such tranquillizing documents: he thought the, reer%
of that act did not belong to the Noble Lord, kit to
the enligleened spirit which was manifest in tit
House upon the subject last Session. That split
bad dictated the letter to the Noble Lord—(lfren)
Abother reason, which had been stated frr cohtive•
lug this office was, that the HisicAiranle Gen:ler:me
(Mr. Wilberforce) was convinced that it was necie-
sary to the dispatch of business in the Colonial De-
partment. But: the conviction of• that Gentitrean
was not the conviction of the House, and tney ought
to have the grounds upon which is rested befere they
yielded to its influence. It the Honourable Gentle-
man would employ his powerful eloqisence, he might
not only convince him (Mr. Ponsonby), but his kight
Hon. Friend (Mr Tierney) might become a convert
to the opinion—that the third Secretary was neces-
sary. He had certainly said some flattering thiuys
of his Right Hon. Friend: he would give him praise
for his intentions and his exertions, and indeed s:emed
dliposed to give him every thing but his vote.—
(Hears hear, ad a laugh.)—He maintained that e:e
office must be filled by a person of high consideration,
but he (Mr. Ponsonby) would Ask, must it nece
be filled by the third Secretary at State ? There wiz
no person throughout the whole kingdom who did not
see that the Noble Secretaries for the Home and
Fo-
reign Departments, and the Chancellor of the Duchy
of Lancaster, were persons of high consideration, anti
yet they had not beard that •any one of those Officers
had so much business in theirrespective departments,
as todisable them froth undertaking the duties in queo
tion. The absence of all rearms to that effect WAS 11
good argument for the motion... What did the motioa
ask Why, not to abolish the office, but to enquire it it
may be abolished without injitty to the public service.
His Right. Hun. Friend said to the House, look it you
cannot save a sum of twelve thousand pounds a year
to the public ; and what was the answer to this
Why all which they had heard was, that a cony c•
Lion was felt of thesnecessity of some officer, but they
were not told why such an other was necessare.—
Would then the House consent to the continuance of
this office without enquiry. Could they yield up their
duty to the unexplained convictions of Miiiieers; if
they did, the Hi use would lose Lie good opinion of
the public, and it would chew that they did not con•
siatheir estimation anvlng tha
Last night a proposal 'as made by theer, to issue Ex
of the Exchequer, people— V Chan lie:
icar, hear.)
Exchequer Bills for tit:
temporary relict of the poor. He did not intend to
discuss that measure upon the present occasion
referred to it to remind the House of th • general ad-
mission which was I.ist nipt made of the unexampie.l
distress of the people, requiring that they shout.; have
recourse to this nr;vel expedient of burtheii:ng vs •
country still luttoer 'to save part of ;he popucalin't
from starvation. Surely thou, this state of LWOW, de-
monstrated that the smallest savolge were not to b'
despised—Meer, f.car.)--best every species of cee
nomy, on the contrary, ought to he maulers!. It t:trn
'they deco mined to refuse all enquii y, the pople soieht
say, when they were called urn) to supplY tier Mails
of discharging the interest upon these Billy that t.i
House, when it created used bt. would mat look tu•a
the Antes of the public money, which might bac
rendered it in pars at least us necessary.
Mr. BARHAM And L ird NIL-rust explained.
Mr. B. BATHURST conteitued, that all w!::4
his Right ails. Friend had MAWS moot, with foie.'
the Secretary of the colmica le i,lat.ataig for the"
parts of his Majesty's dominions, wasethat as in r or:

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