Star.
London, England, 1819-02-10 00:00:00

IRISH GRAND JURIES.

Mr. DAWSON rose to present a Petition from the
Magistrates of the County of Londonderry, against
the Irish Grand Jury Bill. He took the opportunity
of calling the AtteWWl of the Roux to the abuses

• I

which had existed in the Grand Jury sy'stem of Ire-
land. Reports had been preformed to Parliament
which fully exposed the nature and extent of those
abuses. His Right Honourable Friend, (the Member
for. Clare,) last Session introduced a Bill of which this
Petition complained, becatise it would be inefficient,
so far as it related to the County of Londonderry.
But it would be easy, without any great alteration in
the Bill, to adapt it to, the circumstances of that
County. This Petition had been drawn up in conse-
quence of a meeting of the Magistrates of the County,
assembled for the purpose of considering how the Bill
could be rendered efficient. The Petition stated the
various objections to the Bill, and the way in which
it was proposed to obviate them.
The Petition was brought up and read.
Mr. V. FITZGERALD defended the Bill, and in-
sisted much on the abuses-which existed in the Grand
Jury system before he had introduced the Bill, and
'on the difficulties under which he had carried it
through the House. He knew that, the provisions of
the Bill had, in many parts of Ireland, been executed,
and executed with applause. He warned the House
against altering the great principles of the Bill. For
his own part, he should certainly decline bringing
forward the proposed amendments, because he thought
they would go to trench upon the great principles of
the Bill. He pressed the propriety of Government
supporting and countenancing measures of this kind,
which were of ton great importance to he left to the
unsupported efforts of any single individual.
Sir H. PARNELL agreed with the Right Honour-
able Gentleman who spoke last, in all that he had
said. and thought great obligations were doe to him
for his exertions in bringing in this Bill. Ire was
sure that when the matter was sifted to the bottom, it
would be found that there was no force in the objec-
tions to the Bill. In the county which he had the
honour to represent (Queen's Countyl the provis'ons
of the Bill had. been carried into execution without
aro: diflieultr.
. Sir 0. HILL spoke in favonr of the Petition, and
maintained the necessity of the amendments which
the Petitioners required. He observed that the Peti-
tioners approved of many parts of the Bill.
Mr. PEEL remarked, that the objections to the
Bill had been made in a great degree by anticipas
tion. If their really had been any adequate expert-
once of the Bill. the case would be different. But if
the House was thus to hear objections to this Bill
which h. beer. hardly tried, and to hear nothing of
the defects which that Bill wits intended to correct,
an erroneous impression must be produced. He
shortly called the attention of the House to the abuses
of the old system. It gave to certain individuals the
power of levyin* taxes for certain purposes to an un-
limited extent. ro such length had the abuses gone,
that at one time, within a rear, 1,000,0001. had thus
been levied, when the fetal amount of the revenue of
Ireland was only .1,000,0001.—(lIcsr, rrr.)—The.
presentments under which these srans were raised,
were hurried through the hands of the .fsdges of
Assize in such a way, that it was calculated on one
occasion, that so many. presentments Lad-received
the fiat-of the Judge hi a short time, that the average
time allowed for the cd:isideratiori of each was a mi-
nute and a half.—(hear, hear).—Then, there was
no sufficient check on the application of the money
thus raised. Of the misapplication of it many gross
instances had come within his cos a observation._.lle thetefore begged the House not hastily to agree
to the repeal of the Bill now in force, and above all,
he hoped that nothing would induce them to return
to the old system.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT observed, that all the ob.
jections which had been made to the Bill were merely
applicable to its details, and none of them went to
impeach the general principle of it. He pressed the
truth of the observation of the Right Hon. Gentle.
man who spoke last, that the Bill had not yet been
fairly tried. Bat above all he deprecated any return
to the old system. There might be some alteration
necessary in certain provisions of the Bill, but he
implored the House to adhere to the prim iple of it.
Mr. C.t,LAGIIAN moved, that the Potiion he
printed ; and gave notice that he intended to move
for the appointment of a Committee to irq'iire into
the present state of the Laws relative to Grand Ju-
ries iu Ireland.—The Motion was agreed to.

THE CRIMINAL LAW.

Mr. VILBERFORCI: rose to pr.sent a Petition,
to which he implored the attention of the House, not
only on account of the importance of the subject, but
also because of the character of the Petitioners. It
was from certain Members of the Society of Friends.
praying the House to proceed to the r: vision of the
Laws on the Statute Book which impose the punish-
ment of death—(Hear, hear, hear.) In presenting
this Petition, he could not but advert to the exem-
plary character of that class of persons from whom
it came. He could never forget that they had been
the first to call on the Parliament to put an end to
the Slave Trade, at a time when it had attracted
little of the general attention. It seemed of this So-
ciety, that they abjured all hostility only for the pur-
pose of waging a more vigorous war against every
thing tending to injure their fellow-creatures (Hear,
hear, hear.) The subject of this Petition was in itself
most important ; and it was impossible to advert to it-
in this House without remembering the signal exer-
tions in behalf of humanity in this particular by a
distinguished man who was now no more. Among
all the obligations which humanity owed to that emi-
nent person, there was none greater than that due to
his unwearied exertions for the reformation of our
Criminal Code—(Hear, hear, hear.) He could not
but hope that so good a cause would still find many
'supporters in this House. In truth, it was to be re-
gretted, that notwithstanding all that had been writ-
ten, and all that had been done, from the time of
Mr. Howard, that so many of our most revolting
laws remained unchanged ; it seemed as if a remedy
was despaired of, although all experience potwed that
many were attainable. The spirit of uncertainty in
our Criminal Law had produced the most miserable
consequences it had induced criminals of the more
depraved class to a system of gambling on their lives.
He remembered to have heard Judge Buller mention
instances of the extent to which this horrible practice
had been carried. He trusted that some one, whose
acquaintance with the law would give effitienoy to
his endeavours on this subject, would turn his atten-
tion to it. The effect of the two different systems of
rigour, and of endeavouring to form the moral cha-
racter, were before us. It was an inhuman mistake
to say that any Vender could be so depraved as to

be beyond the appeal of all principles and motives: I
The reformation of the Criminal Law was a;subject
which had attracted the attention of Mr. Pitt, and if
that great man had lived, it was his intention to
have taken effectual steps to accomplish that great
wor, k —(Hee r, hear.)
The Petition from the Society of Friends, as Ihen-
tioned by Mr. WILBERFORCE!, was then received and
read, and ordered to lie on the table.
Sir. JAMES MACKINTOSH expressed his asto-
nishment that Ministers had not given any hint of
their intentions or sentiments as to an alteration of
the Penal Code, when his Honourable Friend had
afforded them so fair an opportunity, by presenting
the Petition from the Society of Friends.
_ _

Lord CASTLEREAGH answered, that he was not
aware that it was usual to call upon Ministers to
make any declaration of their opinions, merely be-
cause a Petition upon a particular subject had been
laid upon the table. The regular time for doing so
seemed to be when any Member brought forward a
Motion founded upon such a Petition; then the sub-
ject might be formally discussed.
Sir JAMES MACKINTOSH added, that with
this understanding, he should give notice of a Mo-
tion for this day three weeks oa the Criminal Laws
of the country—(Hear, limn)