Star.
London, England, 1811-03-06 00:00:00

P"

eaihn
,11.. - the Earl of Lauderdale, since printed. Difficulties •to be•eleareJ oat for Africa on a begat Nonage for
PARLIAMEN2'.dRr PROCEEDINGS. of the same sort occurred in Warren Hastings's trial,l wood and ivory. He would state a few of the cases
when his Lordship and the Judges used to go down , which had come under his knowledge. The Neptune
HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 5. early, and the rest of their Lordships late. • He liked I was fitted out and chartered at Liverpool, by a noto- ,
In the Appeal, "Durham and another v. Durham and ano-
tO go down, for the sake of conversing with those t rious Slave-trade hets*,
,for a voyage to Africa for
Cher," Mr. Adam and Sir Saralee' Hominy were heard for the Re-
spondents, and the Lord Advocate of Scotland in reply. Judgment eminent and teamed persons, of whom he asked a wood and ivory. It returned in the usual time; and
affirmed. great many questions. Most of them were very com- two of the crew, young men of very respectable cha-
, Ths Baal of AYLESFORD reported the Answer of his Royal municative, particularly Justice Eyre, nfterwards !octets, deposed that the Captain had, during the voy.
Highness the Prince Regent to the Address of the House of stir Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, whose pleasant age, taken 13 slaves arid two boys, and sold them at a
tirday, that his Royal Highness would be graciously pleased to
give directions accordiszly. manners were teen known. Two of the Judges were Portuguese settlement. In another vessel, belonging,
Mr. Johnston, from'the Office of the Chief Secretary for ire- rather close ; but he used to find them very often di-a to the same port, the Captain himself confessed that
land, presented the Annual Revenue*Aceaants of Ireland, which vided about what was, and what was not, the law, he had been on a slaving voyage ; and said his only
were ordered to lie on the table. and often very nearly equally divided. He was not fear was, that he would not be allowed to clear out
The Malt, &c. Duties. Bilk the Irish Treasury Bills Bill, the
eti,500,000 Exchequer Bilk Int the £101500,000 Exchequer to be deterred from going on in his measures on this from the port. Three or four months ago, a King's
Bills Bill, and Taunton's Divace Bill, were read aSecond time, important subject. This put him in mind of a con- I ship pressed a carpenter out of a vessel on the coast of
and committed for to-morrow. versation he heard among those Judges ; and he was I Africa, and the carpenter told the Captain, that he
The Insolvent Debtors' Bill, and tae Arrest Bill were, on the very fond of their company, and had great respect : had been employed in fitting up bulk-heads and plat-
Motion of Lord REDESDALE, read. a second time, and com-
spitted for to-morrow sennigist. for them, when they seemed desirous of doing what forms in the vessel, which could only be intended for
ought to be done. He remembered an old Judge, • slaves. On the 12th of December the same King's
• REARMS OF APPEALS.
On the resuming
,of the House, the LORD and a learned Judge too, Mr. Justice Gould, talking vessel met a ship called "the Marquis of Romana,"
CHANCELLOR. pursuant to the notice he had to another Judge about a rumour, that, where the but whose real name was the Prince William, of Li-
Riven, brought forward a motion on this subject.— words to from and after the passing" of a bill were , verpool, with 109 slaves on board. Two vessels were
T,lliti he stated in the first instance, viz. That a Com- inserted, the whole Session was included as one day. . also found off the coast under Spanish colours, called
Watiee be appointed to inquire and take into its con- He was surprised at so scandalous and abominable the Galicia and the Palifox ; and yet those ships were
oideration what measures and provisions may be ne- a thing. He enquired of them about it, and was told known to belong to the city of London, and their real
Illthary to adopt attd establish, for the more expedi. by several that it was so. Upon this construction a ' names were the Queen Charlotte and the Mohawk.
tines hearing and deciding of causes brought into that law might be brought in, in November, passed in The Captain of one of them, an Englishman, of the
,Hetne by Appeals and Writs of Error, and to re. June, and a man be hanged for an offence committed name of C. Woodbine, turned his name into Spanish,
port the same to the House On this occasion his in May. Now (said tie Noble Earl) I went to my and sworelhimself to be a Spaniard. Colonel Maxwell,
• Lvelship observed, he did not feel it necessary to say Friend Lord Thurlow, and talked to him about it ; Judge of the Vice-Admiralty Court at Sierra Leone,
. Airy:tiling further than to state, what must be known and he told me it was' o, by a fiction of the law.— stated, that within the last S months, there were 1091
%In many of their Lordships, that upwards of 270 A pretty fiction indeed ! He could not persuade slaves stnt in there for condemnation. With respect to
causes at present stood for hearing ; and without some Lord Thurlow for some time ;but he kept to him, sit- • the West Indies, he did not mean to impute any inten-
measures or provisions were adopted, it would be im- ing down on the woolsack close by him, and teazing :' tional violation of the laws to the planters in our.
possible for the House under the present regulations and badgering him, till he made a convert of him at islands ; but there was a considerable importation into
to bring up such an arrear of causes. He observed, last. Then came in Lord Loughborough, who was the islands of St. Bartholomew and St. Croix, which
that. it would be highly expedient that some measure always of his opirnon ; and Lord Thurlow being con- islands had very little cultivation to require labour- I
should be adopted fur exonerating the Courts of verted, he (Earl S.) got his law passed unanimously ters. The violations of the law were principally
Equity from the immense weight and accumulation by both Houses, and destroyed that abominable fic-!observeable in the conquered Colonies of Demerara,
of business, under which they now laboured. What tion ! That was his law 1 This he did, by his per-1 Surinam, and Essequibo. It would be better to
these measures should be he was not then prepared to severance. He should just mention that Judge Gould i abolish the abolition law altogether, than to suffer
*tate ; but he hoped it would he deemed expedient to told him, that the fiction he had alluded to was in-1 the trade to be carried on by smugglers. He believed
defer the consideration of such an object until it was troduced in consequence of a crime committed by a there were few persons now interested in opposing the
ascertained what was fit to be done with respect to great Rascal, who could not be laid hold of without execution of the law. The shipping interest had now
the judicial business of their Lordships' House. He it. That was ex putt facto law. His Noble Friend found other ways of employing their ships and their
then moved for the appointment of a Committee as near him (Earl Spencer) whispered that it seemed capital. The penalties inflicted by the law, as it now
above. . . impossible. Aye, so it would to any man like him, stands, were found entirely insufficient to put a stop
Earl STANHOPE observed, he should presently with an honest heart: but he was not to be met with to the practice, as one successful voyage paid the
*take the motion respecting the business in question, impossibilities, when he could state such facts. As losses and penalties of three that failed. He consider-
of which he had given notice. He had no objection to the benefits of perseverance, he remembered being ed, that as the penalties had not produced the inten-
to the appointment of a Committee of Inquiry—but in an insignificant, miserable minority of four, on a ded effect, there was nothing which could more pro-
be expected very little from one projected by the . question for abolishing that wicked, shocking, infa- perly be brought under the criminal law. The trade
Noble Ind Learned Lord. mous traffic in human flesh, the Slave Trade, but he. was now principally carried on under the American
The question being put, and the appointment of the had lived to be in a glorious majority of an hundred, and Spanish flags. America, however, appeared per-
CoMmittee ordered, who abolished it at last. Not long ago, the Judges feed), well disposed to take every measure for the sup-
. The Earl of LIVERPOOL read a list, containing of the two Courts of Common Pleas and King's Bench pression of it. After some further observations, he
the names of a number of Peers, who, he moved,
were of decidedly different opinions as to, whether a concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill to
I
should constitute the Committee. Among them we man could be a Bankrupt who digged his clay and render more effectual the Acts of the 46th and 47th
noticed the names of the Archbishop of Canterbury buried bricks in his ground ? On every view of the of his Majesty.
and. Archbishop of York, the Lord Chancellor, the subject, it was necessary to have fixed principles and I Mr. MARRYATT said, he had received informa-
Duke of Norfolk, the Marquisses Lansdowne and 'recorded reasons in the Journals for the decision of i tiort of one ship having been seized laden with slaves,
Wellesley, the Earls Moira, Lauderdale, Spencer, the last court of appeal, or they would not go fur to i and that there were three others in similar circum-
Itethurete Clancarty, and Harrowhy ; Viscount Sid. facilitate business, which concerned the lives and pro- stances which were following. From every informa-
aneuthe and Lords Ellenborough, Holland, and Mul- petty and happiness of the community. He concluded non the Trade was still carried on to a great extent,
grave. by moving his injunction. . and he trusted every measure would be adopted to-
Lord WALSINGHAM moved, That the Earl of The Earl of LIVERPOOL briefly observed upon tally to prevent it.
leiverpoothe appointed one of the Committee. the impropriety of voting such an instruction to the Mr. WILBERFORCE strongly supported the
' - On the general question being put, Committee, who, it would be far preferable, should measure noverecommended to the House, and begged
e Earl ST A•NHOPE then rose, and spoke at consi- proceed to the inquiry upon broad and generalground
. la of his Honourable and Learned Friend to accept of
adtAte length on the necessity of an injunction to the unrestrained by any particular direction of the kind. his warmest thanks for the great trouble and anxiety
Committee to record concisely the principles and The Noble Earl would have full and regular OPPOr- •he had shewn in bringing the matter before the House.'
grounds on which their Lordships should proceed in tunity of bringing forward such a proposition 'after IHe hoped, that as they had a great deal to answer
such cases. Nothing could be more grievous than the Report of the Committee should be made, as then i for in allowing so horrid a traffic to exist for such a'
the uncertainty of the law, which must be the case in the whole subject would be more advantageously un-llength of time in this country, the House would now
the manner in which these subjects were settled in der the consideration of the House. Ido all they could to make a compensation for the i
thateliouse, without recording reasons. For this he After a short explanation from Earl STANHOPE, [evils they had so long suffered to exist, by providing,
bhimed nobody present, as the old practice had been the question was put on his motion, which was nega. 'by every means in their power, for its total preven.
followed o bat he did blame the conduct of the tived without a division. tion in future. The measure of his Honourable and
'House in pre-items times. Speaking of legal delays, The question for the appointment of the Committee Learned Friend, he trusted, would have this effect.
be instance.! the Court of Chancery, which Lord Hale as nominated by the Noble Secretary of State, was He had no doubt it would be unanimously agreed
elisikked,"and of which he had said that 100 causes then put ; and ordered accordingly. And on the to ; but, if it should prove ineffectual, other measures
.were settled in the other Courts, while one cause motion of the Earl of LIVERPOOL the Committee must be resorted to.
was in agitation there. He had also noticed its infe. was ordered to sit to-morrow se'nnight. Mr. BARHAM was sorry to understand, that the
triority in the non-examination of witnesses publicly, illicit Trade in Slaves had greatly increased, that if
and the watt of cross-exarrinations. He had himself HOUSE OF COMMONS. • not effectuallychecked, it seemed as if it would shortly
' been concerned in one cause there, that lasted only 11 Mr. Jou NISTON, from the Office of the. Chief Secretary of It exceed that Slave Trade which had been abolished.
land, presented an Account of the Public Expence, ate. of Ire=
years, and in one in the Irish Chancery that confine- Mr. PERCEVAL fully agreed in the necessity of
land, agreeably to order. .
ed 42 years. A relation of his, now dead, Lord Ches. Leave was given to Lord PALMERSTON& to bring in the Mu- taking every step that should be found necessary for
terfield, once conversing with a person who mentioned tiny Bill. totally stopping so unjust a traffic. He could not suffer
having a very wild Spanish horse, which jumped 11/44 owbthaiilneelleashvoereto bring in a Bill for regulating the the business to pass, however, without distinctly
Marinestat-
hisz ForcesAit D
ing, that the object of the Honourable and Learned
over hedges and ditches, and which he had no means ' rvir. Willi BREAD postponed his motion respecting America,
of confining but within a court surrounded by high from Friday till Thursday the 14th inst. Gentleman, as imparted to him, did not go to make
walls, told him that the best way he could advise
him was to put his Spanish horse into the Court of
Chancery, and he would be hound for it, he would -
/ Mr. W. WYNNE postponed the second reading of the Bribery
Bill to the 15th instant.
DisTILLERIES. the offence a capital felony, but one punishable by
transportation or imprisonment.
Mr. BROUGHAM explained, that such was his
never fight his way out—(A laugh.) So indeed might ten the notion of the CHANCELLOR ef the EZCIIEQUra, it was
object in the first instance. He should propose trans-
ordered, That the House do to-morrow resolve into a Committee
a future Lord Chesterfield say of the Court of last of the whole House, on the Acts relating to Worts and Washes portation for any period not exceeding 14 years, or
Appeal ; it would be as difficult to the full ttiget a in England, used in' the manufacture of Spirits for home con- imprisonment for not more than three nor less than
Spanish horse out of the House of Lords, if once tunlatian. two years. It was impossible, however, for him to
lIEVEVUE. .
fairly put in. Magne•Charta said, that justice should pledge himself that he might not afterwards, if the
On the motion of Lord Masson, there was ordered to be bid
not be told nor delayed ; and he (Earl Stanhope) before the House
present measure was found inadequate, move that the
• was a friend to the principles of Magee arena. If An Account of the Amount of the Property-tax of Great Bri- punishment be made capital.
their Lordships looked 'at 'the 'appeal cases, they tam for the last year. Mr. CANNING, though no person viewed the
would find 35 . from the Exchequer, 43 from the An Account of the Number of Horses, Carriages, and Servants traffic with more horror than he did, was still of epi-
c under the Assessed-tax Act. Aud also,
mon, .
that having been so long suffered to exist, t,
Chancery, and 195 from Scotland—a total of 278.
Why, they would become bankrupts in the adtninis. An Account of the Amount of the Excise Duty on Wine for
each year, Irons 1803 to 1210, bete years leelusive. House ought not at once to go the length of punish..
*ration. of justiceecompletely insolvents in the determi- SLAVE TRADE- ing it with death. To the preposition of the Hon.
nation of appeals. He would bring a strong audio- Mr. BROUGHAM (after having moved for the and Learned Gentleman as now stated by him, he
rity fur avoiding delay, and for the right.understan- ' reading of the resolutions passed by that House in' -(Mr. Canning) gave his hearty assent.
Ong of the grounds of their judgments; that of a 1806 and 1810) said, that in pursuance of the notice The Motion was then put and carried nemiae con-
. person once one of the twelve Judges, but not now ;he had given—of the general notice he had given— , tradicente ; and Mr. Brougham, Mr. Wilberforce, &c.
-'
be meant Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, last Session, and of the resolutions which had just : had leave to prepare and bring in the Bill.
Lord Eldon, whose opihions he heard in that-Court been read, he rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill, I RESOLUTION RESPECTING TIDE ARRANGEMENT OF THEIi
niteictialthieTenveOnntioanc:aunsde ftorardteheinplAupftoisceanofslmavoeres. effNevchteunalhlye'
recollected
dg
thatthe IRISH BIJSINESs IN TUE DOUSE.
bcoleacenrnaitocgidaenpt:itclniet I%.voarsasumbePlriSir JOHN NEWPORT rose, pursuant to nolice,l
• he remembered being kept in examination by his the resolutions which had been read WO e passed ale to move a Resolution, ordering that no Public Bill
Noble Friend nest loin ( Lord Erskine) for four hours. most unanimously—when he recollected the noble tri- should pass that House, unless the same interval
t He was obliged to go, as Lord Mansfield had said, umph which the exertions of his Hon. Friend (Mr. I should occur between its first and second reading,
a subpoena was like being drawn by 12 horses Lord Wilberforce) had obtained, in bringing over to his I which took place between the first and second reading
4 Eldon's opinion was too good a one, to be changed, opinion on this subject the minds of almost all men 'of every Irish Private Bill. He said that it was but
and he should read it. It was taken down in short- which were formerly much divided upon the question; ; fair, that the Irish should have a fair opportunity of
band ; but afterwards a etarrister, a friend of his, he should have now little more to -do than to state, knowing the exact state of their public business in
shewed it to him, with the Noble Lord's own correc. that notwithstanding the Acts of the 4.6 th and 47th of I that House. This he conceived to be impracticable
lions. That was pretty good authority for it. The the King, the provisions of those Acts had been found t under the existing mutations. There was an Act
Noble Earl read port of it, which stated that British insufficient for putting a stop to such practices. He 1 then pending in the House, limiting the number of
justice ought to he administered in a manner satisfac. could assure the House, that he was in possession of persons concerned in stage-coaches. This would con-
tory to the parties : satisfactory to the party losing various documents and sufficient evidence to prove, ; siderably -affect private property in tolls, and would
could not be meant ; but that satisfactory reasons that those laws had been violated, and convicts many :in all probability be passed into a law before any por-
were stated for the decision. There was no such thing of the persons who had so violated them. If, instead : tion of those most interested in its provisions would
hi that House, and indeed- he could give many in- of penalties, the law had declared the offence felony, I know any thing of any such measure having been agi.
stances of the want of knowledge on this subject, he had evidence enough to convict several persons for ' , tated. After some further observations, he concluded
which was most injurious. Here his Lordship went breach of the law. He would not say that the viola- with moving the Resolution above stated. k
at length into the circumstances of difficulty in the tions of the law were very numerous, but they were Mr. FOSTER opposed the Resolution, on the
Roxburgh case last Session, respecting the meaning sufficiently great to attract the attention of the legis. ground that no inconvenience had arisen out of the
and intent of the words n heirs male," and quoted lature. It was already known to the House, that ihie regulation now existing, and that the one proposed
passages from the elaborate and excellent speech of contraband trade was carried on by vessels purporting would have the effect of unnecessarily retarding the

%11

s

F

.

public bnsiness. He objected also to the preamble,
the wording of which implied a direct censure on the
Union between both countries—a measure which, al.
though sincerely and strenuously opposed by hint
(Mr. Foster) had yet been cordially supported by the
Right Hon. Baronet.
Mr. HUTCHINSON thought the objection of the
Right Hon. Gentleman to the preamble rather singe.
lar : the preamble was disapproved of because it cen-
sured a measure which had been supported by his
Right Hon. Friend. Did that preamble state what
was not the tact, or rather did it not speak the lan-
guage of the commercial interests in Ireland I Were
not those interests from day to day in every Session
obstructed and injured by the pernicious system of
hurry, precipitance, and inadvertence which marked
all their proceedings upon Irish questions ?One ground
of the Right Hon. Gentleman's objection to the pro.
posed regulation was, that no inconvenience resulted
from the present mode. His personal experience eta.
bled him to set the Right Hon. Gentleman right on
that head. He had known repeated instances in the
course of the last and former Sessions, in which mea.
sures involving the interests of one of the first corn.
mercial cities in the empire, the city which he had the
honour to represent, were rapidly carried through that
House, though he (Mr. Hutchinson) bad made
earnest but ineffectual applications for time to consult
with his constituents upon them. He had, then, no
doubt that the present mode was a bad one. Whether
that proposed by his Right Hon. Friend could corn.
pletely remedy the former he was not equally certain ;
but sure he was that some change in the present reps.
lotion was imperiously necessary ; and as the Resolu.
tion proposed must in some degree effect that chlnge,
it should have his cordial support.
Mr. PARNELL thought that the Irish people had
a right to expect a full and timely communication
with their Representatives upon all subjects affecting
their interests.

Mr. WELLESLEY POLE said, that until some
case was made out of actual inconvenience under the
present mode, he should not vote for any change in it.
14r. SHAW (of Dublin) said, that he could not
agree with the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Pole), in thinking that no inconvenience had resulted
from the present mode. He had had personal expe-
rience of many, affecting his Constituents in particular,
where measures were hurried through the House :
amongst others, the Police Bill had not been treated
with that consideration which it called for—( Hear,
hear).—Upon this and many other occasions, he him-
self had in vain applied for time—(Near).—A strik-
ing instance of the hurry and inadvertence which had
prevailed in hurrying Bills through that House, with-
out due consultation with those who were more hn-
mediately to be affected by them, was, that when the
Magistrates were about to enforce a certaip clause in
the Wide-street Commissioners Bill, they found, for
the first time, that that very clause had been repealed
by the provisions of the Dublin Coal Bill, passed the
preceding Session—(A laugh, and hear).—Such was
the negligence and haste with which these Bills had
been hurried through that House—(Hear).—Cireum-
stances of this nature could not but create that dissa-
tisfaction and distrust, which it must bed* wish of
every honest man to remove. The effects were, how-
ever, but too obvious; and the general complaint in
, all the public meetings in Dublin was, that anything
was attended to in the House of Commons but Irish
business (Hear).
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
was surprised to hear the Honourable Gentleman
who spoke last select the Dublin Police Bill, as as
instance of that hurry and neglect of which he had
complained. That Bill was brought into the House
some time before Easter, and was not pissed into a
law till some time after Easter. What had appeared
so very absurd in the repeal of the clause of the Wide-
street Commissioners Bill by the Dublin Coal Bill,
would not be thought so extraordinary when it WAS
known that the Wide-street Commissioners Fund was
principally supplied by the product of a duty on coals;
ere, however, it was evident, that the Hon curable
Gentleman's observations could not apply, because
that Bill was a Private Bill, and therefore its delay
could not have been owing to those alledged incon-
veniencies which the Resolution of the Right Hon,
Baronet meant to remedy.
Mr. 4HAW, in explanation, said be meant the
Paving Bill.
Mr. CROKER disapproved of their prescribing
li-
mits to their own discretion, and throwing such a
slur and censure on their past proceedings, as to pro-
flounce themselves guilty of the hurry and neglect im-
puted to them.
SirJOHNNEWPORT thenreplied, stating shortly,
that if he was an enemy to the Legislative Union—if
he was an enemy to the joint prosperity of both coun-
tries, he should wish that every measure, such as that
he now proposed, should be rejected; but as he was
the reverse of all this, he hoped it would be acceded to.
Mr. FOSTER said, that the Tax Bill allujed to
was brought into the House on the sth Fe:or:Lay, and
received the Royal Assent on the 15th June. The
Session ended 21st June. Was this hurried? The
accounts are laid before Parliament in March, as J
the Irish Chancellor is precluded from entering upon
the Loan till the whole amount shall be ascertained,
and the quota for Ireland fixed on. The next thing
objected to was the Stage-coach Toll Act. The tolls
of two roads in Ireland were farmed out to indivi-
duals, who were aggrieved by the bill. The public,
however, would not have complained of it. The last
case, the Liquorice Balls Duty, was merely a slight
arithmetical error. As to the complaint of the ne-
glect of Irish business in the House, this neglect was
solely imputable to the Irish Members themselves.
Mr. HUTCHINSON said it was contrary to the
practice of the House, as well as indelicate, to come
forward with individual instances ; but it was consis-
tent with his knowledge, that as representing a great
commercial city, complaints hadbeen frequently made
to him, by his constituents, of bills affecting their com-
mercial interests passing in a hurried manner through
the House. He could produce numerous letters on
the subject, couched in very violent terms. He defen.
ded the conduct of the Irish Members from the attack
which was made on them by the Irish Chancellor.
Mr. CROKER had the satisfaction of knowing
that the Bill alluded to by the last speaker, so far
from having been hurried through the House impro-
perfy, had been brought in on the 17th of February,
and postponed for various reasons to the 14th of April,
'and even then it had been still further postponed.--
Neither the Police nor the Pouring Bill bore the lion.