Star.
London, England, 1803-12-06 00:00:00

Dirty-kin, and they proceeded to &trice
As for. the Cattle, and the danger of its falling, why
by the account of the chief confpirator himfa f, his
force did net amount to more than 8o or go men,
whin he turned op one of the lanes leading towards
the country, pulled off his green coat, and left the
rabble to make the bell they could of it. Govern-
ment certainly had not detailed information of every
particular, but Government knew of an intended
riling, and the whole of this mighty rebellion was
put down, almoll within an hour after its appear-
ance. It is true, the Lord Chief Juftice was maffa-
cred ; but is that to be charged to the Government
of Ireland? That unhappy Magiftrate had beard of
matters, which rendered his pretence in town very
deferable, and it might have been more prudent to
have entered the Capital by tome other route. But
no candid man will, I am fore, make the much la-
mented death of Lord Kilwarden the fubjea of
Ilante on his MajeftY's..erovernment in Ireland. The
Honourable Member Rates it to be contrary to Come
precedents of former cafes to pats this Aft without
fume other defcription of information. If Co, he is
at liberty to move for a Secret Committee. But,
Sir, in the year I Sol, a fimilar meafure was paired
without fuch a proceeding. The Hon. Gentleman
will not give his negative to the Bill, and I thould
with to know whether, in demanding additional in
formation to the fats of which he is in poffeffion, and
which are, I am certain, fully fofficient to juftify
this meafure to every candid and confidering mind,
he wants any fort of information that might lead him
to negative the Bill ? The condo& of the frith Go-
veroment, at large, has been fuch as I feel no diffi-
culty in defending. That country has not been
neglected nor her intereft deferted. She had a peace
eftablifhment of as,ooo regular troops. 1 have en-
deavoured to anfwer fuch of the Hon. Members ob-
*lions as Teemed to me to have moll connection with
the fubjea ; and I have heard nothing from him,
which, in my opinion, should induce any Gentleman
to be diffatisfied with the grounds on which his Ma-
jelly's Minift,-rs have introduced this Bill."
Colonel Caawruao obferved, that Minifters here
teemed to agree with the Irifh Attorney General in
their defcription of the infurredion in Dublin. They
call it a contemptible riot. If that be a true defig-
aation of it, then, whence arifes the neceffity of re•
forting to fo very important and ferious a meafure
as the introduction of Martial Law? The Secretary
of State affured the Houfe, that there was no want
of vigilance. Good GOD ! why, the Lord Lieute-
nant was fo fecure, that he went to his country feat,
and there had a dinner, at which the Chancellor
made one of the party ; but poor Lord Ktlwarden,
it hems. knew nothing in consequence of all this vigi.
lance, and fo fell a vtaim on his return to his duty
in town. The frith Government knew nothing of
the depot, nothing of the particulars of the rebellion;
but they knew very well how to calculate the appre-
hended danger, and how to ward of all its ill aids.
This they knew even to the number of cartridges
that would be needful; and accordingly the troops
bad only three rounds each ; and it was for Come
time before the yeomanry could have any ammuni-
tion whatever. Ten men per company of this gar-
silo& of Dublin were, at this critical tirnes allowed
to go out every day to work. Colonel Craufurd
then proceeded to obferve. that there was one cir-
cumfiance which he particularly lamented, and that
was, that in all the difetrifions upon the affairs of
Ireland, no feeble expreffions, no faint ray of hope,
ao promife, that on Tome future occafion (if the
prefent be really an inconvenient time) ever was
given by Minifters. that the fyftem of Irifh affairs
fhould be reconfidered, and fomething done fubflan-
tially to better the condition of the people, and make
thorn fatisfied, not merely on a comparifon of their
own fituation with that of the oppreffed people of
France, or thole who fall under the power of Bona-
parte, but fatisfied on a comparifon of their condi.
Lion with that of the people of England itfelf.
Mr. Fasaicis could not but lament the ignorance
the Houfe was kept in as to the real Rate of Ireland.
Miaifters had adduced no evidence whatever, of the
true fituation of that country. He knew nothing of
the (late of Ireland documentally ; all his informa-
tion was gathered from his Majefty's Speech. It
appeared that information was ill founded, if inked
ofconciliatory meafures being adopted, as was (tot-
ed, the very reverie was the cafe. Neceffity had been
alledged as the cogent reafon for paffmg this Bill.—
Neceffity, indeed, fuperfeded every thing, but it was
incumbent on Minifters to (hew that fuch neceffity
did exit; if that was not done, numerous would be
the objections to this meafurt ; but there was one
which outweighed every other. It was telling the
Cor,ful of France, that Ireland is ready to receive
him a that nothing could flop the progrefs of rebel-
lion but this Bill. He would not promulgate inch
a fad. He would not (hew an enemy we were vul-
nerable. He concluded with oliferving, that it was
the paramount duty of his Majefty's Minitlers to af-
ford tome information to the Houfe, not merely in
belief, but on fpecific grounds.
Lord Cas aaaaa *cis contended, that there was
nothing from which negligence could be charged
againft the Government of Ireland. He %tithed that.
inflead of making charges by way of a fide wind,
the whole conduct of Goveinmens might be taken
into confideration, and fair difciiffed, as one com-
bined fyftem ; and then he (hould be ready to meet
any charge thus fairly made. But he did not with
that particular fads thould go abroad into the world
as admitted, becaufe they had not been fpecifically
anfwered. With refpeß to the information Paid to be
required on the preterit occafion, it would be a mat-
ter of great difficulty and embarraffinent, if fecret
committees were to be appointed for the purpofe of
making reports on which to ground the meafure be.
tore the Houle. Betides. fiats might be difclofed
which it would be proper to conceal. He would lay
it down a principle to the Houfe, which, he hoped,
the Hon. Gentleman who opened the debate would
not Jens. It was this—that the country may be in
fuels a fituation, as to render it expedient, on a pre-
cautionary principle, to arm the Government with
certain powers, which they might exercile at their
difcretion. The granting of foil) powers would be
advantageous to the public. He admitted, that the
neceffity of the prefent nicotine was now weaker than
it bad been at the time the Britith Parliament was
firit called on to pais fuch another, bccaufc there
were infiltrations. and remnants of rebellion then
in the country. But it mull be confidered, that there
was ao period in which the enemy had Blade tub

eztenfive preparations, and laid belt deep projeets
for the invalion and contineft of thefe dominions, as
at the prefent time, and that iircutnflance was alone
fufficient to afford ground for a precautionary mea-
lure like this, in a place where the enemy had calcu
laced fo much. However great the returning loyalty
of Ireland might be, it was not to be fuppofed that
many perfuns in that country would as yet be com•
pletely purged of their difpolition to rebel. The '
rebellious projeas fo lately manifelled there, and
thefe, combined with the views of the enemy, were
fufficient to induce Parliament to arm the Govern•
ment with the means of providing for the public
&fay. The power of controul which Parliament
had over the Government of Ireland, would be a
futhcient fccurity to the fubjeet againit the abufe of
power ; and he law no danger in granting fuch a
power on a precautionary principle. An Hon.
Member had Rated, that there was not ammunition
enough for the ufe of the troops on the night of the
infurreetion. The faa was, that all the ammunition
was removed, as it Lhould have been, from that place
to the artillery (totes at ifland Bridge, where the
magazines were kept. And as to the foldiers having
got leave to go and work at the harveß, the fart was,
that this order had paired from England as a matter
of courfe, fuch liberty being ufually granted at that
time of the year. The order having come to Ireland
in the common routine of military orders, the fol.
diers were told they might have that liberty. It was
merely accidental, and not the refult of any order or
permifTion from the Commander in Chief in Dublin.
But the moment he heard of it, it was immediately
countermanded. Therefore that cireumaance could
form no ground of charge againft the Government of
Ireland. He denied that this meafure would hold
out any encouragement to the enemy to attack 11!.
On the contrary, the enemy would calculate more on
our increafed preparation, an would be Rill more
intimidated by every meafure that went to nerve the
arm of Government, and enable it to oppofe every
difpofition towards that rebellion that would promote
his caufe. He was confident that this meafure would
above all others attach the people of Ireland to the
Government and to the Parliament. It would prove
to them that their intereft could &fely be nullified
to the Legiflature of this country, under whole pro.
tetlion they looked forward with the moil flatteting
profpeEts of future happinefs. They would now be
convinced that the Legiflature had done its duty by
them.

Colonel CRAWFORD, in explanation, raid. that
wherever the ammunition belonging to Dublin had
been depofited, it was a certain fad that the troops
had but three rounds of ball cartridges, and that the
yeomanry were feveral hours without any at all.
Mr. Pots Paid, be found hirnfelf under the abfo.
lute neceffity of requefting the attention of the Houfe,
till he Paid a few words, which the fituation he then
held in Dublin, impofed on him as an imperious duty.
It was necellary that be (hould controvert the Bate•
meat made by the Hon. Officer who (poke lad, and
who had endeavoured greatly to miflead the Houfe,
refpeaing the ammunition given to the military, on
the 23d day of July, in confequence, he had no doubt,
of that Hon. Officer having been himfelf milled and
deceived. The fad was, he quid afore the Houfe,
upon his honour, aU the troops were ferved with fizzy
rounds each. There were in the barracks 8000 rounds
of ammunition. to ferve thefe regiments that origi-
nally applied for them ; and on the fir. requilition,
three tumbrels were fent ; and, in the (pace of two
hours, there was more ammunition than was de
manded by all the troops, during the whole period
of the infurreaion. He fhould not have thought of
troubling the Houfe at all on the fubjea, had he not
been on duty in the fervice of the ordnance, and
afterwards received the orders of the Mailer General,
to .nake particular enquiries into the fubjea, as mif-
reprefentation had gone abroad; and as he was
alio on duty, fubfequent to that time, he had tho-
roughly inveftigated the matter, and would effort
the Houfe, that what he had hated on the fubjea
was ezaaly the faa.
Colonel CRAWFORD appealed to the Houfe, whe-
ther it was not highly unparliamentary in any Hon.
Member to aecufe another, who had merely Bated
the information he had received, of endeavouring to
milked the Houfe

. -
Mr. PoLa Paid, that when he mentioned the Ho.
nourable Officer having endeavoured to deceive the
Houfe, he begged the Houfe to recoiled. that he
had added, in coufrquenee of the Hon. Officer's being
himself rallied.

Mr. WINDHAM could not confider the information
now afforded as a fuccefsful defence of the hint Go-
vernment, as it did not meet the charge. It was not
raid that there was no powder here or there, but that
it was not where it ought to be—in cartouches of the
foldiers. One of thefe obfervations which came lel
upon his ear, but not leaf! upon his mind, was the
avowal made by a Noble Lord (Caftlereagh) of the
alfuranee he gave the people of Ireland, that the
United Parliament would not be deficient in vigour;
and in palling the prefent Bill, that Honfe would
molt completely make good that affurance. To fur-
pend the Habeas Corpus, and had martial law with-
out a tingle reafon given for it, was as much vigour,
and perhaps a littic more than could have been ex-
petted. There two rneafnres, or one of them, would,
at any other time. be thought a very grave proceed-
ing ; but by this we fioppeo the Conflitution as eafily
on the people of Ireland, as effedually and as fpeedily
as the machinery of a mill would be flopped by a
flight motion of the hand ; and this we were doing
without any caufe aligned for it. He was net obliged
to thew that this was wrong. any more than the pro-
polers of the 'mature had given any reafon to fbew
that it a as right. If there were reafi-ns, he conferred
he did not fee them, and was in the fittiation of a
man who Paid, a dancer turned round fo quick that
he could not fee the motion ; to which another re-
plied, that it was not wonderful, for the dancer did
not turn round at all. As to the notoriety of the
thing, it. might have been fufficient for the Irifh
Parliament, .who few the rebellion at their door;
but the late dillurbance was called by the lrifh At-'
toroey General a contemptible riot. Let the Mini tiers
tell us fairly. tell us whether it was a contemptible
riot—an accidental effervefcence, or a formidable re-
bellion; for at prefent they (poke like a Student at the
Univerfity, who being :sated by his tutor whether the
fun turned round theearth, or the eat th round the fun;
replied--w fometimes one and fometimes the other."
It was anted to be a little tumult, and a little martial
law was foppofed to be the bell remedy for it. Was j

• the eonfpiracytextenfive and deeptonted in the eoun-I
try ? Had it thole ramifications that were fpoken of
this day ? By their eontradistnry accounts, it fhould
fometimes appear to be of a gigantic magnitude, that
would reach the (hies ; and at others, it would be to
' drop like fuch a pigmy creature, that one could
remedy perceive it. It might be right to reflect low
fuch a proceeding mull operate on the feelings of
the frill' people. It could fearcely be expected that
all this facility of putting them out of the proteCtion
of the law, was much calculated to conciliate and
reconcile to all the bleflings of the Britith Coultitu-
tion. In adopting this they could hardly think that
we dealt with them like brothers ; and no man would
fay,that wewereaCling towards them as wewould act to.
wards ourfelves. An arbitrarygovernment may not be
pofitively good nor pofitively bad, but unquellionably
was the moll efficacious. A Government, however,
which would have recourfe to arbitrary proceedings,
in order to be the more effectual on ordinary occa-
lions, could be entitled to no confidence at all ; and
in this inttance the meafure mull be bad in its ten.
dency, if the Rate of Ireland did not make it abfo.
tritely and indifpenfibly necetfary. If otherwife, it
mutt be in itfelf both criminal and mifchievous. Up
to the 23d of July, the Minifters Paid Ireland was
fafe, and in a (late of tranquillity and improvement.
They would not have propofed martial law then, and
at the fame moment broke out the rebellion, which
induced them to recur to the fame meafures a before,
under circumilances in which I bore a &Ire:
Que ipfe miferirna vidi, et quorum rare magua fut."
—After the 23d of Jcly, the man would be deemed
little better than a traitor who fhould hefitate to in-
Ilia Martial Law ; and yet it was after wards defe:ibed
at a contemptible riot. By Mat tial Law now, they
put all the evidence out of Court. He could not fe-
parate the meafure from the charge againft the Co.
vernment, which formed the very elleoce of it ; tho'
it would, in truth, be a very commodious way of
narrowing any diffention. That Government was
certainly put into a very aukward predicament.
They were either furprifed, not knowing of the con-
(piracy, or, knowing it, they were criminally negli-
gent. They could now take no fide without giving
their advert cries great advantage. If they fuffered
it to go fo far that the capital was within an ace of
being taken, they were guilty of a criminal fupinenefs.
The Lord Lieutenant was off hit poll, the Military
Commanders had no inftruitions, and the Lord
Mayor was ignorant of any confpiracy. The powder
was carried through the mid( of the mob, who, if
they knew of it, would feize it, and murder the con-
dodoes. The Government, therefore, were returned
for two Boroughs, Neste& and Surprize, and ehofe
to make their elation for the latter ; though the
word Surprise was, for the prefent, (truck out, of the
miniflerial vocabulary. This meafure was only juf-
tified on the antecedent fart, that there was a rebel-
lion, which, if once admitted, would be a ground for
any thing. As to arguments, he mutt ray he had
none ; and, though he may find himfelf obliged to
acquiefee in this proceeding, yet, from regard to de-
cency, to esampk, to policy, to juflice, and to the
dignity of Parliament, he thought more information
fhould have been afforded.

The CHAIICELLOIt of the Excir tura raid, he would
never follow the example of others who preceded
him, and difmifi from this queftion altogether the
condo& of the frith Government on the 23d of July,
as it mould be made a diftina queßion ; and he
owed it to that Government to fay, that on enquir-
ing, its conduit would be found delaying of every
praife ; and that it'will appear the preparations were
adequate to the information received refpedfing the
confpiracy. Great firers was laid on the Lord Lieu-
tenant's going to the Park : it was affected that the
military did not receive inftruetions, and that the
Civil Magiflrates had received no communication.
As to the la% thi Civil Magiftrate, a very alive
and well known Officer, did receive a communica-
tion in the morning, and the different Police Officers
were inftrufted how to proceed. Had the Lord
Lieutenant remained in Dublin that evening, contra-
ry to his cuftom, it would have communicated con-
Rernation and alarm, which would have fpread all
over the country, and probably have been produaive
of molt ferious mifchief, by diminifhing the compe-
tency of the Government to refift, and at once reprefs
the confpiracy. This, however, had no poffible
connection with the prefent queftion, with the policy
and propriety of trying rebels by Courts Martial, and
whether the Houle had evidence enough to proceed
upon ? It was true that it was not founded on the
Report of a previous Committee, but that was not
unprecedented; for in the firft Selnon of the United
Parliament, in taw, when the Gentlemen oppofite
is him were thensfelves Members of the Govern
meat, there very nseafom were adopted, without
even a communication or meffage on the fubjeFt ; but
they did not then ten us that it was uneonflitutional.
Here we had the King's Meffage, the Lord Lieute-
nant's proclamation, and all the evidence given on
the trials of the rebels. If the refpedable Attor-
ney General of Ireland defcribed it, on a trial, as a
contemptible riot, that did not exclude all refe-
rence to the teßimony of the witneffes. The Chief
Jolliet, who was at the head of the Commiflion
for the trial of perfons accufed of treafon at the Old
Bailey, defcribed the parties to be without numbers,
without means, and without influence; but that did
not exclude the evidence of the confpiracy. His
Majefly in his Speech alfo Rated, that the leaders of
the rebellion had been brought to juftice, and that
tranquillity was rellored ; but that was different from
affecting that the exiftence of thefe powers had no
there in tailoring it. His Majefty farther Rated, that
the people form a comparifon of their date with that
of other people :—but it was not to be inlet-led from
that we had no need of precaution, and that there
was not yet remaining in Ireland a greater body of
difcontent than prevailed in this country when the
Habeas Corpus was fofpended. The Right Honour.
able Gentleman proceeded to contend, that it was
not in the mere circumftance of the confpiracy in
Ireland that he founded the prefent meafure ; al-
though it would in itfelf be fofficient to May him
in bringing it forward. He took the proceedings of
the a3d as an indication of what might again occur,
if proper tneafum of precaution were not -Adopted
Thofe who knew the perfons who compofed the pre-
fent Government of Ireland, would readily believe
that nothing lhort of the Itroni,eit neceffity would
induce them to felon to the renewal of inch a retric-
'ion on th: ordinary laws of that country. Knowing
that preparations were making by the enemy tar the.

invation of that part of the Uo:!ed Kingdom, end
coupling the circumstance of i,,vpfs
with the (.rte of the public min.], ltc fubmitted there.
was ample foundation for . law of this nature, which
was only precautionary. With regard to the necel-
... LiAt the 4r•
fity of pt a•eious enquiry, he e.l 1
gumenc of notoriety was fufficient for the Houfe to
ad upon. If we looked to the pradice of our ancef-
tors, we flineild find that notoriety had, in repeated-
inftances, been the balls upon which the renewal of
the fufpenlion of the Habeas Corpus Ad had been
recommended. He agreed there *wild be no limit
to the confidence to be reputed in a Secret Commii6
tee ; but the difficult would be in laying before it•
fuch materials :ts would enable it to prefent a Cecil-
fadory Report; and unlefs there was come fp,-citica-
Lion, and not a ftatement in general terms, it would
be impoMble for fuch a Report to be made.—He had
no fcruple in laying, that the particulars, which wou'd
alone enable a Committee to folunit a proper Report
to the• Houfe, could not he made pabtie,
being attended with great, ferious, and impoitant
difficulties. The queftion then was, whether the
pound of notoriety, combined with etc "reparations
of the enemy, was fufficient to atithorife adoption
of this precautionary meafure ? He remarked, that
the objedions to the prefent came eti;h peculiar
ill grace from thofe who had not urged any argu-
ments againft thole mealur;:s of a limilar nai tire,
which, during a. pet iod of ten rears, they hid been
under the repeated neceCity of palling. It %VA% no
flight argument in favour of the Bill, that thole
Nlembers connetted with Ireland, who had Lill year
Rated, as matter of feet, the amelioration of the fen-
timents of the people of Ireland, and the return of
the generality of them to loyalty, had now confeffed
their error, and acknowledged that fuch a meafure
as this was neceffiii y for the tranquillity of that coon.
try. He concluded by faying, that he was actuated
by a confcientious conviction of the neceffity of the
meafure, and he had heard no parliamentary reafon
for a preliminary enquiry.
Mr. WILSILRFORCE thought the neceinty for the
prefent Bill was proved, and the Bill itfelf juftified
by reference to the late rebellion. He conceived it
not to be the charader of thofe who were at the head
of the Government to a& for any unconftitutional
extenfion of the executive power. The cirenmaance
of the late rebellion, and the meditated invafion of
'retail,: calling upon the Houfe to ftrengthen the
hands of Government. He raid, much had reached
him which might be extremely proper to be made
the fubjed of future inveftigation ; but he thought
matters of fuch importance ought not to be taken up
by the Houfe immediately. He truaed the period
would arrive, when every one, difarming himfelf of
party prejudice, would exert himf,:if to the utmoft
for the benefit of Ireland. Sure he was, the wifdom,
benevolence, and juftice of the Houfe, could never
be direded to a Inure worthy objedt. He fruited the
Houfe would not content itfelf with temporary ex.
pedients, but proceed on a broad fyftem of policy,
tending to make Ireland as free and happy as this
Country.
Dr. Lawataca was furprifed that a Gentleman
who had expreffed fuch fentiments as thole of theta&
fpeakeri fhould have given his approbation cf the
prefent Bill. ft vas a meafure altogether unnecelfary,
the prerogative of the Crown being quite fufficient
for the extraordinary protedion of the country,
fhould it be found neceffary to fufbend the operation
of the Civil Laws. He believed Cris was the firß
time a public meafure had been recommended on the
ground of notoriety or inyifible neeeffity. He war of
opinion, that Martial Law ought not to be endured
in Ireland, unlefs Minifters couldrove it to be ie
fuch a R
State, that the Judges and Jurors could not
attend the adminiftration of Civil Juftice without ti
reafonable dread of afitaination. Upon the whole,
he thought this an ill.advifed and impolitic naealure.
General Lorry& obferved, that this was only a
meafure of precaution ;—he knew that as long u
Courts of Law could fit, this Bill would not be put
in force, and it was under that impreffion he gawp
his vote in its favour.

The ATTOINBY GINSIAL raid, his Majelly's
flitter: were urged to the adoption of this nieafuts
folely by a conviaion of its neceflity, and not from a
deftre to fuperfede the laws. Referring tx what had
been the former opinion of the Honou• aSle Gentle-
man (Mr. Windham), he could not avoid comparing
him to thole who were Paid to change their moray
when they got to the other fide of the Cape of Good
Hope. The fentiments of the Honourable Gentle.
man had certainly very materially altered fince he
had fat on the oppofite fide of the Houfe. He was
of opinion. this Hottfe could not do a thing more
dilltaartening to the people of Ireland than to hpa.
rate without palling this bill.
Mr. WINDHAM explained, by Paying, be did not
oppofe the meafure as one which be thought utterly
I unneceffary ; he was rather difpofed to admit it
mifAht be neceffary; all he complaidd of was, that
fu cient information had not been laid before tbp
Houfe.

Mr. Horcetasoa rote, in confequence of tome
al-
lufion which had been made to him ; he felt hicofelf
in the fituation of a difeonfolate parent, feated by the
dead body of his deceafed child, accompanied by the
doftor who had attended hint in his inners, and pre-
fcribed for his malady. He would exclaim to the
phyficians " Though one child has fallen a vifties to
the malignity of the diforder, for Gon's fake do not
abandon the reit of the family to its ravages." But
he wifhetl not to dwell upon the ills which had M.
mulated his unfortunate countrymen to rebellion.---.
He whited not to rake up the Alm of our ancellors,
or impeach their memory; but he would call on the
wiLlom of an enlightened leziflation at this day to
adopt fuch a fyftein of policy towards Ireland, as
fhould put an end to the neceffity of 'matting, &thou
after Seffion, rneafures of this nature. He was ready,
under the prefent aford of affairs in Ireland. to ad-
mit the neceffity of the relent Bill; and be was
equally ready to coincide in every meafure that could
effectually arengthen the hands of his Majeily's Gca
vernment, to put down, or prevent rebellious where
the ordinary laws of the land were incompetent; but
he wafted to appeal to the feelings of that Houti,
and he conjured them to confider, that the people of
Ireland were not circumftanced like the people of
this country. They had heard it (aid, the difpolitiosts
of the people of Ireland were marked by a growing
attachment ; bur he conjured the Houle Dot to be
deceived by that Raiment, into a belief that a se
(yam of medusas was slut abfoltualy imam

~~i