Star.
London, England, 1816-04-06 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

An amino of the quantity of Copper imported sad exported
in tots, was laid en thelable.
Mr. MAIRILYA VT pretested i Petition from the Tamtzrs of
the town of Sandwich egainst the Leather Tex.—Laid on the
Table
Gems/ OASCOYNE presented a Petition from the Tanners
of against the Leather 1 as.—Laid on the Table.
Lord ELMLEY , presented a Petition from the Tanner, of
Worcester edema the Leather Tex.—Laid on-the Table.
The Dotter Duty lin went ;Isrongh a Committee.—dtepert on
Monday.
The Meese Dsty Xll weld into a Committee.
Mr. ROBINSON proposed a &Mei of Ws. ed. on Foreign
Chew, Imported in latish Vessels; end ans. on Cheese Imported
vearl?.
Eft M. W.V.IDLEY considered those &dee toe high, and
propound Gs. and 108.1 n their 64 A. Its thouabt that a. Cheese

Sete to neat% cif much contempt/no amongst the pole,
ixt k should not be raked too high.
Mr. ROBINSON thought that the Duties on Chen*
hear a proportion to the duty on Butter, and he did not
lower duties than tildir be proposed would do so.
Sir M. W.RIDIAEY explained
Sir f. ACLA ND anti General GASCOTNE .painwor is, one in support of the original 1110ii911, and the
the amen imenr. '
they
increaseal the price on the 1
auren of Caesar to girowo
Mr. CALCRAFT argued that the dot es othlinany
wouldnothigher
wenaiato
rob:
.e bightthe Mo
K Sir CHA RI.ES BURRELL considered the dirties not bight
thud the circurnstancis of the country required.
After some conversation, in which hlr..llobineee. mr. ~...
panic 'pared, the amendment was negatived_
tent, Mr. Marryatt, Mr. Gordon, General Gawoyee, 414
John
the Roar,
s had,
Newportead,
anl
pAr was ordered to be brought up to-morrow.
The Bill went through a Committee morrow. --'
and ordered to be taken into farther considerattoeVs
the
eT
day three wt eks.
. Mr. LUSHINGTON brought up a certain account to.
the Leeward Islands.
Mr. BENNE r presented a Petition from the County of gei
In favour of the Insolvent Debtors' Act, and representing::
great caution should be used before a practice was recurred: „-
r;
which militated so strongly with humanity, liberty, the cowtit.-
tion, and every maxim of discriminative justice, and mot
w''7
left to the discretion of disappointed avarice, of -I
pried, and of vindictive ntaligulty. P—rur."--roidta.
The Annual Indemnity Bill was read a first and second tat.
and ordered to be committed on Monday. ,
The Princess Charlotte of Wales's Settlement Btu was sayfirst and second vane, and ordered to be committed oe Ag;;;; a
REPAIRS OF THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S
PARLIANENTITHEET. oFncs z
long going on in Parliament•street as the
Mr. BANKES complained of the repairs ihilthad
been so
house of one of the Secretaries of State, and wished
to know by what orders they were carried on?
Mr. HILEY ADDINGI'ON, when he fiat saw
those repairs, was sty prized at them. He made in-
quiries from the Master of the Board of Works., and
was told, that the business was carried on by the di.
rection of that Board. The business did nGt belout
to his department. He did nit ocean to atoivtie
any blame ft) the Board of Works; but he isrofrswd
his ignorance, except from the information he had
mentioned, by what orders the repairs of the house
had been undertaken.

Sir CHARLES BURRELL hoped that themat•
ter would not be suffered to rest in this manner; but
that there would be inquiries by what directions the
repairs in question had been undertaken.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
professed his ignorance of the intention to undertake
those repairs till he had seen the scaffolding. He,
however, did not doubt but a satisfactory explanation
could be given on the subject.
Mr. FREEMAN L'LE thought that this should
come under the Civil List, and if that was the CAN
there was an Act against any building which would
cost upwards of 81,000, without an order from the
Treasury. He therefore thought that the subject
should be inquired into.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
repeated, that he had no doubt bin there could be a
satisfactory reasrn given on the subject.
Mr. HILEY ADDINGTON would not impute
any blame to the Board ul Works, by the Master of
which he had been informed that the repairs were ne.
cessary, and that there were many loose stones in the
walls of the house. The business did not at all be.
long to his department.

THANSPOKTATIO,I OF CONVIC7I.

Mr. H. ADDINGTON moved the second read.
ing of the Convict Transportation Bill.
Mr. BENNETT washed to take the opportunity to
make a few observations on this subject. The no.
fortunate persons who were transported to Botany
Bay were subject to great hardships in going out
there,' which Government had not in coatemplatio
to inflict. From the year 1812 to the year 1614
there were near 3,000 convicts sent out, and he card
not calculate the expense of sending them out at lea
than 100 each, so that the expense was nearly Jodie
what it was in 1810, when it was only £175,000.
The terror of the punishment of transportation to
Botany Bay was entirely done away, and therefore
any benefit could not be expected from the punish-
ment with regard to deterring from crime. There
was also no improvement in the morals of the convicts
to be expected, for it was not as was formerly the
case, when convicts were transported to America,
that they are transported to a population, where the
proportion taken was as' one hundred to one, and
where the honesty of the old inhabitants may be sup-
posed to have an influence on the habits of the new
ones. This was evident Irons the number of execu-
tions that occurred in the colony. He therefore
thought that the system of transportation was radi.
cally bad, and that the convicts could be employed
with greater_ benefit to themselves, less expense to
the country, and more salutary effects to the corn.
munity.
Mr. GOULBURN argued, that the colony we
in a state of improvement, as was s.hewn in the Re.
port of the Committee appointed to inquire into the
subject. With respect to the executions in the colony
it appeared that they were greatly diminished. The
convicts on their arrival in the colony Were eirher ap-
propriated to private families, or kept in the employ
of Government. They could not be punished with-
, out the order rd. a Magistrate, and then there could
not be inure than twenty-five lashes inflicted. He
then sheweil from accounts which he read, that the
punishment and executions were yearly decrsasiegi
also the two last years there had but twenty Mc"
dons taken place, and that number, compared id
die population, he believed was not a greater pear'
don than Loa place at home. He considereci
colony in a very progressive state of improvement.
Mr. BENNETT explained. .
Mr. LOCKHART believed, that the stated the
colony was much improved, both with regent to eio•
rals and advancement in prosperity. He was Sad*
fled, that the transportation of convicts had a favour-
able influence in deterring from crimes. He lima
wish every possible improvement in the transportation
of convicts; but he did not think that a practice of
such lung standing ought to be lightly abandoned.
Mr. HOLFORD alluded to the hulks where con-
victs condemned to transportation were employed till
the ship was ready for taking them out. He would
wish that thow were better ordered and regulated
than they appeared to be. The report of the In-
spector of Hulks spoke much in favour of the imp
provements that had been introduced in them, and fi
the meliorated conduct and morals of the coavicti.
But lie was not satisfied that this was the case. 1;1
one hulk, at Sheerness; there were four or 50" of
tic's employed, consisting of boys, girls: men a"

tti

the ma
me oeiht 4 i
OL coal:e
bake a rn,
Ite other
1
'y Proposei 1
POW, tikn
re the pa 4

. is

. . _
. , „, . • , , _ . .. .
. gat time or 2 prolser munition of tinge Loa PAT.llll2fOrtillti. tflooght tflat the Hon.
info 4,4) classes, as ought ta be the custom, they were Geollemares ohiectiona wield be more- properly
brought forward in the Committee. The Honourable
;„„leated into six or seven. This he tlkraght fiery
gpoper, as from such an indiscriminate mixture Gentleman compared the charge of the Staff at pre-
sent with that of 1802 ; but the real question to be
;here could be no great improvement of morals or of
cons;
habits eipected. The health of those unfortunate considered was, whether the'lt would be noSta at present was too
colons must suffer from their being crowded toge- large or not ? use to state the redue-
-40. To this he could speak from his own experi- titans that it might be found possible to make till they
lace. Government could not decide on the l
eact, as he had been down at Sheerness, with an
H„mu tookpo-
fable Friend of his, last summer,. 'and h cal reductions that might he made till it had received
bad seen sixty or' seventy of them crowded toge. reports of the different Generals serving on the st s-
of, without any discrimination, into one gang. tions. There would many reductions take piaci in
There were but nine bad, or incorrigible men said t the course of the year, which could not at present be
be amongst them ; and for nine bad, it was rathe stated'. The Hon. Gentleman surely could not
sew that four or five hundred should be punishedi think that a charge of the Staff at present should be
ushese.mere a proper classification, the ship shoo! no more than it W3S in 1802. He would state sone
be divided into forty compartments,instead of six fly, instance, which would shew the Right Hon. Gentle.
seven, as now the case. He should beg leave to call titan how mistaken he was, if he conceived any such
she atitatioa of the House to another point, wli notion. In 1802 there were but three Surgeons of
he considered of much importance. It was highl , Hospitals in the West Indies. Did the Honourable
wry that there should be accurate accounts kept' Gentleman conceive that the health of our troops in
dat convicts and their earning. 'Chose kept atl that quarter should be entrusted to three Surgeons et
resent were very unsatisfactory. Thee Honourable Hospitals ? Did not hr perceive what an increase of
resent were then went into details of /he employment :tall was necessary in this instance ? With regard
ittne convicts and of what might be their earning. to the Staff at Head-quarters, he would insist that
Its muted that 'there would be accurate accouns the Commander in Chief had nothing mord than was
iept in future, as from theft) an estimation might k necessary ; but he would be prepared to enter into
food et the comparative benefits of transportation, all the details, and into a defence of them in the
sia employment at home of convicts. As for tram. Committee, when the business would be properly be-
' a, he should only say that, besides the ex. fore the Home.
- attending the transportation, the expense of Mr. TIERNEY observed, that in the Committee
the convicts back after the term of their they could dinatnish the sum, but not the officers ;

petite .
absent was expired, could nut but be very cx-
-110.61 ; while leaving them in the colony against
rdikeboice mould be ',cry unjust. But, if the estah-
ent of the hulks were properly attended to, and
eosins were employed in them instead of being
great saving, and prove
runsported, it would be a
404 beneficial as well to the country as to the con.
tit"' themselves. He therefore requested his Right
Roo. reieod to tern his attention to this subject, and-1
mast tbOse ienprovements to which he had alluded, to
be carried into effect.
Mr. H. ADDINGTON could not judge of the
impsovecnents which the nee. Gentleman ( Mr. Bas-
set) who spoke first on the subject roold wish for,
tillbe b;ought them forward. If he was hostile to
the entire system of transportation, he could being in
sbill to effect his purpose ; but till he should take
thestep be could not see how passing the present bill
for in years could be injurious, as, if the Honuura.
*Gentleman's measure should meet the approha.
eon of the House, this Bill could be repealed. Here
the Honourable Gentleman repeated. his observations
of night on this subject, and said, that the
Subject had engaged much of his time and attention.
. With regard to the observations of his Honourable
Fried (Mr. Holford) who had spoken List, he al.
lowedtbere was much in them worthy of attention.
Many of the suggestions contained in the Report on
tritons had been adopted in the hulks, and there
sere divisions making in most of them. With re-
spect to the morals and conduct of the convicts there
vas much attention paid to their improvement, and
selection of those who were most meritorious ill this
taped was made. Theo? was also the beginning of
'system of classification entered on, and steps were
is actual progress for the best employment of the
convicts, while accounts of their earnings would be
kept with more strict regularity. There were ships
o the river prepared for the reception of three bun.
ltd of them, and he trusted that his Honourable
friebd would not loag find any thing to be complained
elm this subject.
Mr. HOLIFOOD and Mr.H.ADDINOToN mutually ex-
Sisal, when the Bill was read a second time, and
wired to be-committed on Monday next.
Mr: TIERNEY asked a question with regard to
&accounts and correspondence of the Lord Chain• i
belie and Lord Steward.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, that if what was
• ed was not satisfactory to the Right Honour.
the Gentleman,'he could makla motion for farther
lion on the subject.
Alter a few farther words from Mr. TIERNZY and
• CASTLEREAGH,
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
id, that there never was any account of clothing in
ash
Mr. TIERNEY said, that the account of clothing
"tht to be given, as it would swell the account of

but it the officers were not diminished, it was folly to
think of diminishing the snm, as•the officers must be
paid. The Noble Lord had given no answer to his
Honourable Friend, for it sea. no answer to ask the
House whether there should be no increase in the
charge for the Staff ? His Hon curable Friend had
not said that there should be no increase ; but he said
that there should not be such an enormous increase.
The Noble Lord had said, that it was a delusion to
hold out that there should be not increase; but it was
a delusion he (Mr. Tierney) would say, to present
estimates of sums of money for which there was no
necessity. The estimates for the Staff in Ireland last
year were id 48,000, but it WAS afterwards found that
£15,000 of ibis sum was unnecessary. Was it to be
borne that estimates should be made up in such a
loose and inaccurate way ? It would be found on a
fareret examination of those estimates, that a greater
and greater eaduetion would be found necessary.—
The reductions that bad already been made ought to
be a precedent to the House, not to be dismayed in
proceeding *farther. He considered the arguments
of his Honourable Friend entirely unanswered, and
should, therefore, vote against going into the Com-
mittee. All he wanted was a reduction in the expen-
diture; for the House and his Majesty's Ministers
should recollect, that they had just escaped from a
war in an unexampled manner, and the present peace
was one of which there was no parallel. The Mi-
nister had had what money he wanted during the
war; for then, if any person 'expressed an opinion
about its being useless, he was called an adherent of
Bonaparte's, or a Jacobin, or some other such like
title was given him. The War Department, that it
might be continued, was now called Colonial, and
the change of names was to stand for economy. He
did not think that it was absolutely necessary to
have a Commander in Chief, and he wished it to be
observed, that he did not mean any disrespect to the
Duke of York, when he talked of any discontinuance
of that die% for that Royal and Noble Duke had
certainly conducted himself in a manner highly cre-
ditable to himself and•Jenefffialito the country.
Lord CASTLEREAGH was not surprised at the
plan which the Right Hon. Gentleman pursued of
preaching up-a system of general economy, and of
leaving the understanding entirely doemant, when it
might be perceived, if it was exercised, that the esti-
mates, which were now about to be•proposed to the
House, were not to be permanent. The Staff would
be regulated by his Majesty's Ministers, but the
Right Hon. Gentleman had not entered into the pro-
priety of this or any other department, but bad con-
tented himself with some general sweeping observa-
tions. The Right Hon. Gentleman had talked of
the country being able to exist without the Comman-
der in Chief, and hail wished much to dispense with
the War Secretary. The War Secretary, he should
remind the House, was now the Colonial Secretary,
and his dudes were the duties of peace. Any person
who was at all acquainted with military affairs, would
instantly perceive the necessity there was to continue
'the office -of Commander in Chief. The extents)!
the army was great, but net to. great ; but the grimy
was very different from what it had formerly been.
In former times it had been perceived that there was
no more likeness between one regiment and another,
so that if they had been selected from the different
Powers of the Continent, they could not be more dis-
similar. He doubted not but the House would see the ne-
cessity ot keeping up the office of Commander in Chief.
With respect to going into the Committee, he should
observe, that if the House suffered the business to,
proceed, they might, when they chow,' reject any.
items that they thought improper, but if they did•
not go into the Committee, to object to die snm
he considered as needless and AS unfair, and tending
to defeat the purposes of the Right HonourableGaZ
tleman himself. He considered much of the rta
ing on former-tittles very erroneous: that because at,
one time there was so much, at another time there
was so mach, and at the present period there should
be so much, was certainly a mode of reasoning any
thing but satisfactory. There were not less than
thirty-three colonies, and if the sum was taken at
about 4100,000, at present wanted, it would be about
45,000 per annum for each colony ; but this was by
no means a permanent measure. He again repeated,
that it was in the Committee, and in the Committee
.
alone, that the subject could be discussed with pro-
priety.
General GASCOIGNE expressed a doubt, whe-
ther the reductions on the Staff had not been already
carried too far—(Hear, hear). —He conceived, that
one General Officer was not sufficient lot the island
of Jamaica, where there were SAM terlar troops
and 5,000 militia. The gallant Genera , concluded
by "Observing,, that the patronage of the WM, ciriald
not be placed in safer nr More independent bands thin
those of the Duke of York. That illustticus person-
age was guided by no other ptinctple but that 4
forviardlag the general interest of tt.he nation, sad of
properly rewarding the merits of tudividnals. •
Mr. TiEttzipa-“ Am-1 to understands from the

SUPPLY.
011 the motion that the House gesolve into a Cods.
like ef Supply,
Mr- WAILRE was obliged, from a sense of what
hosed to his constituents and to the country, to ob.
izlfsto going into a Committee ; and he was con-
. that be should make out a sufficient case for
_ jog_ gaff to the measure. The charge of the
i

lePloye-d on foreign stations was so enormous, ema-
il/et with that of former ones. that be thought the
hem would pause before they would content to go
tea Committee to vote this charge. The total el-
le* of Gener•ls serving on foreign stations in 1792
'trtat7,ooo, and in 1802 it was £19,434, which was
ilium* only of a little upwards of 42000. But
111 Penni. after a deduction of 463,000 for that
_emit France, the charge was swelled to the enos-
nelain of £133,000, which was s
ix times what it
"amble: in 18U2. Ple would ask, was the House of
* prepared to recognise such an immoderate
ulnae in this department since 18021 He was
"ftle that the foreign stations on which our troops
employed were increased since the peace of
hese, but such an enormous increase of expendi.
fes by no means justified by the increase of ex-
• He therefore thought that the estimates
to be sent back, unless such an explanation
L
given as he could not see the possibility of.
:17blediterranean, in North America, in the East;
li, in Gibraltar, and in. the West Indies, the
ten ;L the Staff was snore than doubled since the
via" aid surely our military stations in those
itliatu_,"°f any like doubled within that time.—
'"es also the charge for the Staff was much
he thought, than necessity could justify. Of
ar home, likewise, he must say, that the
warned to be unjustifiably increased. On the I
Its.„,i,e mid not see any thing like a justification
6i so enormous increase of expenditure in this
indeed, he was utterly at a loss to con.
rative7 there could be any; and until' he should
tt .iatisractory explanation on the subject, which
fltdr."‘ocen he Sheila not, he could not consent
at° the Committees -

observation of the Ohm General, that the pro,/ Tr
of the army under the Duke of York, was not within
the spheie of Government influencer
General GASCOIGNE-1, Leis so than if it were
in the hands of any ether person."'
Mr. TIERNEY—• 6 I say, the army cannot be
considered safe, for a single moient, except it ii.
under the command of his MAjestx's Constitutional
Advisers."

•

General GASCOIGNE—,. There never was less
influence exerted. or personal favour shewn, than -at
present."

- Mr. 'TIERNEY-44 The army would be much
better under the controul of his Majesty's Ministers.
(Hear, hear!) .I speak of the Duke of York with re-
spect, and, if I may be allowed the expression, with
regard; but. I cannot, constitutionally, recognize the
power he now possesses in any other hands but those
of the responsible advisers of his Majesty." •
General GASCOIGNE—" There is no room for
entertaining any jealousy of that power."
Mr. TIERNEY-..." I feel ten times more jealous
of it,
because it is held by One of the' Royal Family,
and not by his Majesty's Ministers."
Mr. BENNETT contrasted the expense of sup-
porting the office at we Horse Guards, in the year
181d0, with the sum now charged in the Estimates
for that purpose. In 1800, when we had an army
of 260,000 men on foot, the charge was £7638
4sow then did it come to pass, that, in 1816, when
our army was reduced to 149,000 men, the cost of
supporting
it was £16,295 ?—(Near, Hear.)—He
nest adverted to the Waggon Train, which cost;
leg year, £157,570, including a charge of £66,695
13f horses. One would have supposed, that, in time
of peace, many of these horses would be re-sold, and
that a reduction would take place in the establish-
ment ; but, from a document laid on the table, that
of 2000 horses, which cost the nation 0;6,965, only
three had been sold, and thepublic were thereby belie- I
flied to the amount off/tens guiatar.—(Hear, hear.)
After some observations trum General PHIPPS.
the House went into the Committee of Supply.
Lord PALMERSTON believed, that the Wag-
gon Trail' had been particularly useful. The Duke
of Wellington would never go into the field without
a considirablc body; and at Waterloo they had been
employed sixty hours in carrying off the wounded
and on other services; and a principal reason why
the horses mentioned had been bought, was to supply
the Duke's corps. With respect to the half-pay, he
could inform the House, that it was proposed to
make an augmentation proportioned to that of tire
Navy, applying to all those who were upon the list,
and to ali those who had bean reduced, counting
from 1793; but it would not apply to those who bad
been put upon the list in 1801, because those might
have chosen to return to tie active service of the
country during the war. With respect to the Staff,
considerable reduction would be made. In North
Britain there was only one Major-General, which the
House would *perceive was a great reduction in itself,
when it was remembered, that !rem the Revolution
to the present time there had been other Officers.—
There would likewise be one Major-General at Pry-
mouth,. one at Portsmouth, and one in Kent, to stt•
perintend the embarkation and the disembarkation of
troops from France; but the last would not be per-
manent, but would only remain during the conti-
nuance of our present relations with trance. In
Guernsey and Jersey there would be two Major Ge-
He could not really see that the House could
wits any propriety go beyond the reductions
proposed. In North America there would be one
.Cenamander of Forces, and in Canada two Major-
Generals, one in each province, with a civil appoint-
ment as Governor. In Nova Scotia two Mari- Ge-
nerals were necessary. In the Leeward Islands a
'Commander of Forces and four Major Generals in
, lieu of Lieutenant Governors. Amongst other benefits
that would accrue from this regulation, one of these
Generals might relieve the Commander in case of in-
dispnsition. In Gibraltar it was in contenipation to
remove the Major Gmeral, and to have only Com-
mander, who might act in a civircapacity. In Malta
there would be a Lieutenant Governor, and in the
lonian Islands two Major Generals and a Comman-
der of Forces. From the Cape of Good Hope one
Major General would be removed, and the person
who commanded would only be paid as a civil officer.
In the Mauritius there would be one Major General,
and in Ceylon the Lieutenant-General would bete.
moved from the Staff and receive only civil pay. •
Lord PALMERSTON moved for the sum of
.£275,885, lot defraying the expenses of the Staff'
and Hospital Officers on foreign service, and in gist;
rims during the year 1816.
Mr. C.W. WYNN considered this as a very large
allowance for the service to be performed, he thought
the number Of Staff Officers much too great.
• Lord PALbIERSTON thought' the situation of
the Mauritius and Ceylon required the Staff proposed
'to be kept there; as to distant at ttions, it would be
necessary to keep n large Medical Staff in them on
account of the variety of complaints to which the
men must be subject.
Mr. WYNN wished to know whltt occasion was
there for so many Deputy Adjutant Generals, and
Deputy Assistant. Adjutant Generals on foreign
stations ?

Lord PALMERSTON said. the Majir General
in command was included in the number alluded to.
Mr. AI3ERCROMBY asked, what necessity WAS
thete for so large a Staff at St. Helena t
Lord PALMERS Fog saki, this was done to
guard against the danger 'of any accident which
might facilitate the escape of Bunapitrte from the
Island. *and on this account it would be necessary to
have Officers of superiority there.
Mr. PONSONBY could not conceive what neces-

' Mr. PEEL said, that the Duke of York, wante.l
to reduce the Staff in Ireland, but that the Irish Go.
vernment thought it absolutely n-cessary to retain
the present esta'alishrnent, without which it would be
impossible to perform the milotary service in Ireland.
The Resolution was agreed to.
Lard PA LVERSTON next rritSeed to grant a
suns of R 183.062 lc: alllwauce.a to the Civil Depart-
ment of the Army. •
Mr. BENNET asked, wEy the recammendation
of the Committee for taking off the emoluments of the
Commissary General had not been attended to
Lord PALMERSTON could not now say whe.
ther these could he reduced or no:.
The Resolution was agreed td.
The Noble Lord nest moved far a sum of
810,113 for defratirig the charges of the Volunteer
Corps in Great Britain and Ireland. He observed,
that considerable reductions had already taken place
in the expenses of these corps.
Lord PALMERSTON said, it was the opinion
of his Majesty's Government, that this was a very
valuable description of force, and that it ought to be
kept np, suhject ro the reduction he had stated.
Mr. WYNNE thought that many of those corps
would maintain themselves it they had no allowance.
at all, and he saw ro necessity for calling them out
at state.l times ; tls rehire he conceived a less allow.
ante would be sufry lent.
Mr. ROBINSON s4id, that it was not intended to
call them Out oftener than siz days in the year.

sity there was for a very large expenie in St. Helena,
and he wished to know what was the 'total expense
of guarding Bonaparte in that island 4..
LordCASTLEREAGH. told, the 'Ugh( Hon.
Gentleman might move for the account it he thought
proper ; he could not, at that monteut, say what was
the exact amount of ie charge.
Mr. PONSONBY thought the Noble Lord could
answer the'cliseitieln at mute.—
kir. WYNN thought the expense much. too great.
Lord. CASYLE ft BAG H said, hi would taker tare
to have the expense laid before the House ; and he
could not consider the expense too great, when it was
toisilitired ht * .01portant it-was to the peace' of this
*dente? and:toll &trope, to keep Bonaparte in se-
• -

Sir J. HI PPESLEY knew that several members
of these corps were of an intiriur class of yeomanry,
and could not bear the expense of being called out.
The Resolution was agreed to.
Lord PALMERSTON next called the kttentinn
of the Committee to the Local Militia. It was in.
tended to bring about a great reduction in this foyce
without doing away its organisation.--(Hear, hear).
It was intended to discharge the Serjeants, the Ad.
jutants, and Qtarter.Masters, and to do away all
the local expeosys attached to the Head.quarters; to
let the Officers retire on their half-pay, and the men
to serve out their time. The ballot was to be sus.
pended ; but the force itself should not be annihi-
lated, provided it could be upheld at a sm ill expense.
—The whole ni the annual charge hitherto was
8170,000 ; very little more than halt that sum would
now be required, and therefore he preiposed to grant
890,000 for the Local fatilitia.4-Agreed to.
Lord PALMERSTON next moved 852,000 for
Hosp.t4l etoeity4s.

Mr. PONSONOY hoped the items of these tv-•
proses would he laid before the House..
Mr. GOO LxlllltN said, every possible • effort .
would be made to give the (I.:tails ; he • hoped they
would be rt.Ady by Monday text. -
The El•arse beiog resumed, the Report of the Com-
mittee was uttered to be teee;ved on Monday.
NAVY INTIMATES. •
Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the
Navy Estimates, and on the quest:on tat the Rest).
lotions be read,
Admiral MARKHAM ohi,erved. that severAl
Naval Officers who intended to pier their opinions
upon some interesting topics connected with the Navy
had left the House on an understanding that the
Estimates would not be brought tot ward that night ;
he therefore wished they might be p:isiponed.
Sir JOSEPH YORKE-said, that no intimation of
any such postponement had been given, and if Gen-
tlemen did not Choose to remain in the House, it dil
not follow that the blisiness was to ber put off on that
account.
Mr. PONSONBY was certain that there had been
a general understanding that the Navy Estimates .
were to come on first, that evening. and when Gentle-
men found they did not come on they went away, in
despair of beiiring them brought forward.
Mr. OSBORNE admitted having told Gentlemen
that those Estimates should come on first.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER .
did not think the question of first or sect-mash/Yellow
a reass.a for deferring the important' and pressing
business before the House. • •
Mr. 'IIERNEY said, be Mew of a guard sair.

__• .:

Mr. TIERNEY asked, dye periO:Powers of
Eiwripe, and France in particular, -ah/Ould'out bear
their quota of the expense ?
Lrxii CASTLEREAGH said, , that Ely one of
the Confederated Powers would mcntsreadily have
kept the custody of Bonaparte at. its own separate
-xpense ; and on that gro Engl Ind thinking he
was now most secure in our cus•ody, thought the
most pelitic and generous proceeding would be to
..lerty the expeo-e.
Mr. PONSONBY asked, why the other Powers
were not called on to contribute a share to the expense;
and why should not France be made to contribute ?
Lord CAS I'LEREAGH observed, that Gentl.
men had already objected to the large contribution
laid on France, and now they found fault with Go.
vernment for not laying a small contribution upon
her.—(lfear.)
Mr. WYNNE thought nothing could be more just
than that France should pay a part of the expense
which was rendered necessary by her own condiv.
Mr. HAMMERSLEY asked if any proposal had
ever been made to other Powers to defray their share
of the expense of guarding Bonaparte ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it tamed be
highly derogatory from the dignity of England, to
make it a matter of common deliberation with fo.
reign Powers, that they shoold bear any share of the
expense of maintaining an English settlement. If
such a thing was done, we could-not send out a ship
to St. Helena without the concurrence at powers who
would thus have a sort of jurisdiction over that island.
In fact no proposition of the kind had been mide." •s.
Mr. PONSONBY could not see what dilfictiltir
',there should have been in applying to the Allied
Powers for a share of the expense. This might have
been done before the place of Bonaparte's residence
was fixed on. He could not conceive how the dignity
of the country was in any way concerned in this point.
Mr. PEEL fully agreed in the sentiments eirpressed
by Lord Castlereagh. He conceived it was credita•
ble to the character of the country to have the eXclu.
sive custody of Bonaparte even at its own expense.
Mr. PONSONBY could not see.how the charailee
of England was raised by bearing the exclusive ex.
pence of a measure from which all the other Powers
of Europe derived an advantage equal to that which
we enjoyed.
Mr. WYNN complained of the large military esta-
blishment intended to be kept Grp in Ireland.
_ _