Star.
London, England, 1811-04-10 00:00:00

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mentioned, he Moved for leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the gate of parish apprentices.
Leave v:a.s given, and the Bill was immediately
brought in.and read a first time. It was ordered to
be read a second time to-morrow, when it is to be
committed, pro forma, and then printed.
FAY Of NAVY OFFICERS.
Captain BENN ET rose, pursuant to notice, to sub-
mit a motion 'relative to they pay of Officers in the
Navy mrforeign stations. In consevence of the Hoc-
' Oration of the foreign exchanges, or rather the per.
manent depr2s,ion of it against this country, the ME-
' cers of the' Navy on the Mediterranean station, and
at Lisbon, actually suffered a loss of about 30 per
cent. on all pay remitted to them. All that he desi-
red, was, that the Navy should in `this respect be put
on a footing with the Army, and that they should re-
ceive their pay at par. This coeiion, which was
merely brought for the comforts of the l\ :ivy, and was
quite abstracted frini all party considerations, would,
as he hoped, receive the sanction of the House.
of hHe
understood, that it was to be opposed by some is
Majesty's Ministers, but he could not conceive upon
what ground, as the matter appeared to him so strict-
ly just and reasonable. He could see no reason why
the officers of the Navy should not receive the same
advantage is this respect as the officers of the Army. ,
He concluded by moving that the House should re.'
solve itself into a Committee, to take into considera,
tion the Act passed in the 35th of the King, and allot
to consider whether further allowances should not be
made to the Officers of the Navy on foreign service,
on account of the loss upon exchange of mony.
Mr. YORKE said, that be was convinced that no
• party considerations were mixed with the present ques-
tion. Every man most feel for the honour and con-
lolls of the Navy, and in this feeling he partook as
much as the gallant Officer, or any other man. The
gallant Officer must have known, that what he had
proposed was not in the power of the Admiralty to
do, and that it cculd only be done by that House.
Before he adverted to the situation of Officers• em-
ployed in the Mediterranean, he should first generally
itate, that before the year 1795, the officers, as well
as the ship's company, only received their pay when I,
the accounts were closed at the end of the year, but '1
by that Act they were allowed to draw on the Navy
lloard quarterly for the amount of their pay. Until
this regulation, the officers in the Mediterranean, as
well as on other stations, were indeed exposed to con: J
aiderable hardships, both upon this accoent and on
account of the unfavourable state of the exchanges.
In 18,0( and 1801 the price of the dollar rose in
the Mediterranean and Levant, and the exchange
bad been sometimes favourable, although he must
allow, that for many years back the dollars had
been above the par, which was 4s. 6d. and even
sometimes rose as high as ss. SI in that part
of Europe. If the motion of the Honourable
Officer was agreed•to, the country would suffer an an-
nual loss of it:•25,000 for remittances to officers on the
Mediterranean station alone, and similar claims
would certainly be.put in by officers on other stations.,
The coninion men might also think that they had a
right to similar allowances. He hoped that the
exchange would not remain permanently against this
country, but that in time it would so far recover, that
the officers should have nothing to complain of. Be-
sides the loss which be Lad mentioned, he believed.
that the officers would draw more bills, if those bills
were to be cilia at par; and he thought that even the.
evil which was now complained (it miglit produce in
them habits of economy and frugality, "n hen they "
found that they lost considerably by' drawing for mo-
ney from England. He thought that if the motion
was agreed to, it would have a tendency to turn many
of our officers into money-brokers. He found himself
compelled by his senseof duty to oppose the motion.
• Mr.WHITl'..lt CAI) hoped that thisqueationmight
be discussed witlanit any couSideration of party. / He'
• himself did not wish to oppose himself to the admi-
riiitratim of the night Honourable Gentleman •(Mt.
Yorke), whose conduct in his department he had al-
ways heard spoken of with the greatest approbation.
(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benches.) He
thought it was due to the Right. Honourable Gentle-,
man to say sa much in praise ofhis general adminis-
tration of the Admiralty ; yet in the present instance
he must entirely disagree with him. If the present
motion had come from that Right Honourable Gen
demean, he was sure that it would have been agreed
. to by the House without any opposition. He could
pee no reason why the Officers of the Navy sliould
not have the same allowances as the Officers of the
Army. The Right Honourable Gentleman seemed
-to think that their superior accommodation on board
ship, where their lodging and food was provided for
them, was a sufficient reason for a difference. He,
however, thought otherwise ; for doubtless all those
things were taken into consideration when the pay of
the two serrices was fixed. As to the chance of the
exchanges rising in time, that was nothing to the
Officers now serving. It was a poor comfort to
the Officers who are losing 30 per cent. out of their
pay by serving their country in the Mediterranean,
to tell them that some time or another Officers
might eosaibly gain by the exchanges becoming
favourable. When the Right Honourable Gentle-
man said, that jlrcbably the exchange mould again rise
to be in favour of this country, he must say,. that he
could see no su-li probability. Suppose that an ex-
pence would be incurred by this means of thirty or
I forty thousand a year; he was convinced that it.coultV
well be saved on some other part of the Navy Esti.
mates. But if it could not be saved, still he was sure
that the country would never grudge snob a sum for
the comforts of the nay y, who are in a peculiar degrees.
" the beloved of the nation." He thought the Right
' Honourable Gentleman's way of teaching them fruga-
lity and ceconorny was rather a curious one: To be
, me, if from the income of a man that has a hundred
a year, you take away St?, that man is .oblitietl to be
economical and frugal in spite of himself. (A/rash.)
But he did.not know what sight they had to force peo-
ple to he ceconomic and frugal in that manner', or
why the naval officers should be fined in the amount
of 30 per:Cent. on their pay, merely because they are
sent tai serve. Their country in the Mediteirancan. The.
• Right Honourable Centleman had seemed afrAid that
all the. officers would turn money brokers, if their
bills were payable at .par.—[Mr. CRotuta said, across
the table, Not all, but many of them.]-0h ! then it
seemed that the Secretary to the Admiralty did allow
at there might be some splendid exceptions oft ffi-
. , *„..b.wlao would not be itionc)-brokc (if ' h.)
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He differed from hire, however, in this respect, Ind opinions confirmed lay the Memorial of the Lon dog \
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thought that very few of our Naval Officers thought' Distillers. The present .meesure must be injln theurious
of making mosey by calculating rates of exchange : to the trade, and, with it, to the community.
their principal calculation of gain was from taking of lestforty years, there had been but three prohibitions
prizes. He hoped the House would ,do that justice of distillation from cern, and it was always a matter
to the Navy which the Ministers did not appear in- of the most serious consideration. He then entered
dined to do in the present instance ; and he should into a calculation to shew the actual less sustained by
wish that the Honourable Gentleman would take the 1 distilling from sugar :—A quarter of barley, at 40s.
sense of the House, in order that it might appear who . gave nineteen gallons of spirits—it took sixty-six shit-
voted against their claim, and who supported it. i lings' worth of sugar`to make the same quantity of
Mr. CROKER commented on the observation spirits : here was an actual losiot 265. on every nine.-
made by the last speaker, upon his setting him right een gallons. There were about 800,000 quarters of
fillti,
with respect to the expressions of his Right Honour. rn used this cost nearly £1,600,000. It took su-
able Friend (Mr. Yorke). ga eke the valee of about ie2,600,000 to make the
Mr. WHITBREAD explained. • same quantity of spirits. And was this immense sum
Mr. ROSE said, that he felt as nine for the ho., to be sacrificed merely as a baon to the West India
nour and comforts of the Navy as any men, aid had 1 &veer ? But if revenue was the object, there was a
done all that lay in the power of his bumble effarts to 1 more simple mode. He understood, that Is. 9J. a
promote them. He therefore trusted that he should, . gallon was to be laid on the wash. A person of
not be considered an enemy to the navy, although he I great influence and respectability in the trade had as-
must oppose the present motion. On some stations I great in that if this competition with sugar in the
the exchange was in favour of the officer, and on the : market was done away, the distillers would not be
Jamaica station in particular, it had been pretty per- unwilling to pay even 2s. 9d. en the wash ; and there
manently 1 e I,er cent. in their favour. The calcula. 'could be no comparison in the collection of that re..
tion of the allowances to be made to the naval officers venue evith the difficult wouldartain one which was
would be extremely difficult, as there were no pay- now proposed. This tax actually amount to
masters as in the army. more than was looked to in the present measure.—
Mr. HORNER supported the motion, although he The Honourable Gentleman quoted the authority of
was generally in favour of increases of pay and al- Adam Smith to prove, that to force capital from th ,
lowance originating with Ministers, and not in that culture of corn to the culture of sugar, would be the
House. He certainly did not think that it would be same as to destroy so much
proprietors ital. The wh
bee olrecorn.
right to be calculating minute variations of exchange, plaint of the West India plopri would me.
but that' when a very strong case was made out for died, if not in one or two years, in time, if things
relief, as lie conceived this to be, he thought the offi. were left to the regular course. In the five years
cers should not be permitted to suffer so very cousi. ending itt 1765, the quantity imported and retained
derebly. for home-consumption annually was 997,000 cwt.-1
Mr. HUSKISON conceived, that great difficulty Fifteen years afterwards it was 1,503,1 n 1000 cwt.
it Twaseri I
would arise, if we were to think of adjusting the pay years after it fell to 1,200,000 cwt. 7
of officers to the incessant variations of foreign ex- 1,335,000 cwt. In 1806, it was '2,200,000 cwt. .
change.' In some cases it would be equivalent to an and in 1808, it was 2,300,000 cwt. The whole
advance of 30 per cent. on their pay, to the disedvan. import from the British Colonies in the year 1808,
rage of the country; in some, of course a diminution. was 3,600,000 cwt. of which 1,300,000 cwt. were
They could not be paid in Bullion, without a serious i exported, which left 2,300,000 cwt. for home con-
loss in its purchase. The measure proposed wouldt sumption. As neither the demand nor the population
have the effect of 'introducing a certain kind of mo- and wealth of the country had increased since 1795,
ney brokerage into the service. If the measure pro- in the same proportion of 13 to 22, as the produce of
posed had any foundation with respect to the officers sugar had done, it was obvious that the effects which
in the Mediterranean, there was no reason why it had resulted must unavoidably have taken place.—
should not reach to all officers, naval and military, The export of sugar had increaset. in a similar pro.
abroad. The question was connected with that of portion, so that if the growers of sugar produced more
exchanges, and was extremely extensive. He con- of the commodity than there was a demand for, that
chided by recommending die motion to be withdrawn. was not a reason for a total alteration of the system.
Captain BENNET was sorry to see the Navy made t If the expences of the Wcst India planter had in-
victims of the Cold-blooded policy of the Cabinet ; and creased, had not the rent of lands doubled here ; had
there never was a morpent in which he more regretted not the taxes been more than doubled since 1795, and
the want of eloquence than the present, to vindicate had not the currency been as much depreciated here
the character and rights of so many gallant men as as in the West Indies ? The agriculture of this coun.
were affected by the present system. The question try was not to be saddled with the burthen for the re.
was, however, now decided by the Minister, and borne lief of the West Indies. He was of opinion that the
down by the weight of ministerial influence. cultivation of sugar should be kept within ton that
Mr. YORKE said, he was not aware of more than He would admit that the planters raised their sugar
two memorials being presented from Officers on fo. as cheaply as they could, but slave labour was much
reign service. dearer than free labour. Tlfis was an opinion recor-
hlr. H. THORNTON thought the question pre- ded by Pliny, Columella, andievery writer upon the
mature, as there was another question depending by subject of slavery since their t mes. It would be ob.
which this v,eitsi J be materially affected. He there.. sued, because there be a glut of silk and a scarcity of
fore thought that the other should be decided before hemp in the country, to say, that theref
The princip ore silk ought
the present WAS entered upon. to be used io making cordoge. le w
Sir M. BUR supported the motion. the same with respect to sugar and corn. It was the
Admiral HARVEY thought the House should go sure principle to manufacture
WAS to from t
he he cheven tapeso t raw
into a Committee upon the subject. material, and if any reliefgi the
Mr. WHITBREAD declared his intention of West Indies, he thought it might be done by lowering
moving the previous question, that the Hon' Gentle- the duties on stieeie for then the people could eat
I-men opposite, who seemed tothink it premiture,mioht what they paid or
observed, that on the average of
have an opportunity of supporting it hereafter. He Mr. HIBBERT
I
was proceeding in his obsei vations, when the last eleven years, a sum of four -millions yearly
The SPEAKER suggested that the Hon. Member had been paid to the enemy for corn. Last ye ir the
Ihad spoken already upon the subject.
sum was seven millions : one year it was ten millions;
Mr. W. ADAM said, that understanding the Gen. but on the whole it was forty millions and upwards.
tiernen opposite in the same way that his Honourable All that the West India proprietors asked 1`...1i oto be
Friend had, he should afford them the opportunity, let into one-filth of this sum, and the remaining lour-
by moving the erevious question. fifths would, he contended, be sufficient to encourage
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he should vote for the agriculture. There was no measure likely robe more
previous question, if he understood the Hon. Gentle. effectual than this against the enemy, who never
men correctly, and might hope to have their support impeded the export of grain, nor had :stay objection to
to the motion on a future occasion ; and this he un- receive our coin and bullion, but rigorously excluded
derstood to he the feeling of his Learned Friend. alleolonial produce.
Mr. HUSKISSON said, he declined giving any Mr. W. TAYLOR considered the corn laws and
pledge as to his vote, upon any future occasion ; and the distillery laws as parts Of one system of laws.—
repeated that he thought the measure premature. Ever since the Revolution, they had been considered
Mr. HORNER. said, he had forborne from allud- in that light. In various periods of scarcity, via. 1699,
ing to the other question!, as he' thought that if our 1757, 1795, and 1800, the export of corn wai-
Officers on foreign service experienced any loss, let it bited, as hells s the distillation from spirit. Henry;
did
proceed from what source it would, they ought to be not wish untry to be dependent on the en
indemnified. and was of opinion, that instead of interfering with
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER the interests of agriculture, as they would, by such a
observed, that the manner in which the previous ques. measure as this, they ought to encourage the cultiva-
tion was put, was not eculiarly iracious ; nor did he tion of corn.
ever recollect a question so completely converted into I Mr. FULLER stated, the object and intention of
a partwqnestion, after the expression eif so strong al this measure to be, to put the two commodities, sn..
determination to the contrary. The gallant Captain 1 gar and corn, grown by British Planters in the West
bad so far forgotten hit original determination, that-; Indies and here, on equal terms in the market. It
he did not hesitate to complain-. ot the cold-blooded .was in contemplation of the Right Honourable the '
feeling and endeuletion of the . Treasury, though I Chancellor of the Exchequer to depress either descrip-
nothing could be more unjustly imputed to them in i tion of planters, or to raise the other. This was only
any thong relating to the interests of the navy. As to; teeent as an experiment for one year. It the colonies
the,Hon, Gentleman who sat next the gallant officer ! were to be ruined, which were so intimately connected
(Mr. Whitbread) after having first transferred his mo- witk the manufactures, and naval means, and the ge-
tion to his Learned Friend (Mr. Adam), he deter.lnerel prosperity of the country, and the burthens they I
mined that in case of a certain answer to his question ; now bear to be thrown back upon the corn and potatoe i
he would vote against his own maim ; and after. ' growers, what would become of the country ? The
wards went so far as to promise not only for himself i French Government knew the value of coloo
them to
nies, and
but for his Learned friend. As the previous question iby sending every ship 'they could, clung t
appeared to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) I the lest. Good Goo! (exclaimed Mr. Fuller) why
the handsomest way of meeting the subject, he would ; do you not see and imitate what has been done in this
engage that if the Hon. Gentleman would vote' respect by that wise and able man at the head of that
against his own motion lie would vote for it. I Government (wise and able he is, but not good, for I
After some fecher conversation between Sir John believe him to be the greatest villein on toe face of
New pol t, Mr. Adam. the Speaker, and,Captain Ben. ; the earth)? The conductof the opposers of this bill
net, the previous question was carried. I was said to arise from country-gentlemaiohip, but it
DISTILLERY BILL. I might, perhaps, be more appropriately designated
Sir JOHN SINCLA IR regretted the appearance ' Jewishshipeviz. that theymightget their Arra per Aria.
of tee House when a Bill of such importance was to : Lord BINNING observed, that notwithstanding
come on. The measure would probably be unpro- all the gloomy predictions of the opposers of this Bill,
dective to the revenue, but would certainly be injini. at the time the measure of 1808 was brought forward,
ors to the farmer. About 500,000 quarters of barley , the enterprise el farmers had not declined ; and there-,
were used in the distilleries ; this would be thrown ' fore he was of opinion, that the fears
di of t
whesehonoper-
r-
Lack on the };rowers and the country be so far a loser. able false prophets were tt be receiveth consid
The grains applied to the feeding of cattle would be able caution. This measure, as well as that, was
Inst. The very manure of those cent! was worth founded on the fact of a large importation of corn.
more than £2,5,010 a year; that would be lost, and No man felt more strongly than he did the claims of
no equivalent would be given to the country gees a theWest-India Proprietors on the justice ot that House,
precarious tee, hard to be collected, and of no greater He was persuaded they ought to he let into a corn-
amount et last than tit* revenue which was now to petition with the foreign crn-ri imper orter.
y Anbut average
he thrown away. 1 of 301. was a considerable pce f barle •
Mr. WILLIAM•SMITH had found his former was much more fa.vourable to, the fauna than its. to
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the sugar planter. Fik dig not thin) drat Ike bailer
growers had much reason to complain ; and be was
of opinion that the measure ought to have a trial.
Sir J. NEWPORT deprecated any interference
with the agriculture of the cou^i!y.
Mr. ROSE supported the Bill.
Mr. WESTERN opposed it, on the ground that it
I was brought in not to give the sugar a fair conapeti.
1 Lion with grain, but to force it into consumption.
i The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
• denied that he had any partiality for sugar more than
for grain ; indeed, in a political view, he might rather
be accused of favouring the grain, agi it Was more pro.
• doctive to the revenue. He denied that this measure
would have only tke erect c f wasting our money--oa
the contrary, it went to save grain for the consump.
tion of man; it went to encourage our colonies, to en.
crease our seamen, and assist our navy. These were
the political considerations which he bad, in his own
mind, balanced against the loss to the revmue cl
which this measure might possibly be productive. He
should be ashamed to say another word upon a sub.
ject which had beenalready so often and amply ,iis.
cussed.
Mr. MARIVIAT defended the bill, and denied
that it went in the least degree towards the diatom
1 ragernent of agriculture.-It he had any bias, it ought
to he rather against the hill, because be was a Ina.
' bolder, and not a West-India proprietor.
i . The House then divided—
', For the recommittal 66—Against it 31—Majority 35.
Oil our return, we found the House in a Commit-
tee on the Bill, which it went through, after a demi-
story conversation on Cali clause with respect to Ireland,
' between Sir. J. Newport, the Chancellor of the Et.
chever, Mr.W. Smith, Mr. Grattan, Mr. Rose, Mr.
Curwen, and Mr. Fuller.
CUSTobt DIM=
Upon the motion of Mr. ROSE, the Haase went into a C 0.11.-
*slue. to consider the Act relative to Duties upon Customs; and
be then proposed certain Resolutions, altering the duties *pot
fattens, increasing the duties upon foreign linens, and akeni.g
the time of commencement of certain other duties.
I The House resumed, and it was ordered, that the Report he
rocefft4 to-morrow.
GRAIN AND WIN! IMPORTATIONS.
iUpon the motion of Mr. 14ORNE.R, the following Papers
were ordered to be presented to the House :
A return of the average prises of Wheat for 1810, diatinguishiag
Scotland from England and Wales.
Otn account of the quantity of Grain, Malt, Meal, and Flour, et-
ported from Great Britain in 1810, distinguishing the ports
from and to which the exports were made.
An account of the quantity of these same articles imported into
Great Britain, distingulehing the foreign countries wont which
tie importations were made.
An account of the number of Licences granted in illiO, for the
importation of gra'n Item &reign parts.
An account of the quantities of Wine exported in 1808, 1809,aal
1810, distinguishing each year.
Adjourned at twelve o'clock, till to-mortow.

Tri iN EN 1N G sTA it.