Star.
London, England, 1820-10-17 00:00:00

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stir,. It this to be endured? Ate puenttlitdtsardians
and see all dose things, fin which ,Governments and LISINVIce
nude, destroyed and corrupted, tinder forms that take, the data-
dna of Law and Government? Again we invoke the religions
aid the moral part of the community to come forwara and ad;
dress the Throne and the Woolsack, in a manner that may make
them feel, that if this wicked mellaure is pushed from one stage
of iniquity to another, it is impossible to forest what even reli-
gious feeling may dictate to the nation, as being necessary to
put an end to the proceedings.
The youthful indiscretions of the Knee were pardoned by pie
Nation, and the errors of his riper years were overlooked. Is it
discreet, then, in pretended or real friends, to drag him, for former
frailties, to the tremendous bar of public opinion ? In the name et
charity, and in respect for the Monarchy,we deprecate the attempt.
But Justice is deaf alike to ?derey and to Corruption. The
weak and wicked Counsellors, who have brought this trial before
her, by which the worst acts of obscenity have become " house-
hold words," must abide the issue of her stern decrees. Public
Opinion is now the Prosecutor,
and will award Justice.
Again, we say, that the cue, as it personally concerns the
Qmunt, may be considered as'closed ; but that which really con-
cerns the Country, was not opened till Friday—and, unless the
Nation be tainted,:xdted, and debauched in its morals, by the
filthy business that has taken place, it will, with one universal
ezpreuion of abhorrence, prevent the hideous cesspool of
fey from from being.orptied upon tbe world. In a *Ord, the
Mae Christian community of Europe is interested in the con-
sequences of this loathsome affair; and we are only astonished
that no pod& declaration of the Holy Alliance has been yet
issued on the subject.
On the evidence that was given yesterday, it is unnecessary
to say anything: it speaks for itself. But respecting evidence
which was prevented front being given, the Public cannot be
prevented from speaking. The call of the Public voice is unani-
mous, that no forms or rules of evidence in the Courts below,"
ought to be interposed to prevent a full disclosure of the foul
and wicked conspiracy that appears, by the evidence, to have
been formed against the Qum of ENOIAND; that no rule of
procedure adopted by the House should he adhered to, which,
in its application, is found calculated to hide and screen the cos-
spiratora—it being of infinitely greater importance that the cha-
racter of the House for maintaining " substantial justice" should
stand unimpeachable, than its character for consistency in—ad-
hering to any side whatever, that may, in its operation, prevent
or even interrupt the dispensing of that " eubstantial justice" to
either the accused or the accuses—the conspirators or their in-

• IF

tened Victim. .
The Public will view with disgust the shifting, shuffling, and
quibbling, employed to prevent the transactions of the Hano-
verian Minister, Bhron Oservicoa, from being any way brought
into connection with the .Milin Commission. The whole argu-
ment of the Counsel for the Bill, when freed from verbiage, is
simply this—What can the conduct of the Ministers of a German
Sovereign, the "Inge Hanover, have to do with the proceedings
of the Milan Commission, appointed, not by the King of Hano-
ver, but, by the King of England, or by his Ministers! ! !
THIRTEENTH DAY OF THE DEFENCE.
HOUSE OF LORDS. .
The House resumed proceedings exactly at ten o'clock.
A Gentleman from the Treasury presented at the llar-:-Ist.
Au Account of the Revenue for the last Year ; and, ed. Au Ac-
count of the Expenses incurred in the Proceedings instituted
against her Manors', as far as the same van be. made up to the
present date.—Counsel were then called in.
The LORD CHANCELLOR stated 92 the House the posi-
tion in which the proceedings were on adjourning yesterday.—
The Counsel for her Majesty had put a question to the
witness under examination, which had been oppoied by the
Counsel for the Bill as totally inadmissible. That question
his Lordship conceived to be this--Whether the circumstance
of the name of Vilma:mid having been repeatedly mentioned
in the course of the . evidence, as an individual connected with
the preparation of the case for the prosecution, was a sufficient
reason for admitting an inquiry to be gone into, which
had for its object to shew, that he had offered inducements
to an individual who had not beep examined. as a witness
for the prosecution, to betray the interests of the defendant?
The case, with respect to Vilmacarti, observed his Lordship,
may differ much from the case already decided by their Lord-
ships (alluding, as we understood, to the case of Reganti), where
the individual, whose acts were sought to be proved, could nor be
tinaidered as an Agent whose sets were to bind the party in the
Mee ; and it would be for their Lordships to decide, on a view
of the whole case, whether Vilmacarti was to be looked upon as
such an Agent, or merely as an Advocate professionally assisting,
who had no authority to commit his employers. Without offer-
ing an opinion whether Vilmacarti ought to be considered as an ,
Agent or not, hii Lordship thought that resort should be had to
the Learned Judges, in order to know what, under similir cit.!
cumstances, would be the course of practice in the Courts below.
The case he would love stated to than thus :—lf, in the trial of a
civil action, or of an indietment,evidence were given, on the cross-
examination of a witness examined in chief ott the pari'of the pro.
secution, from which it might be inferred that A II a person not
examined as a witness, had been employed as agent of the plaintiff
or prosecutor to collect evidence on his behalf ; and if the defend-
er should propose to examine a person to prove that the said A B
had offered a bribe to C D to give evidence,
.0 D not having
beers witness examined for the plaintiff or prosecutor, and
there being no proof that A B bad authority to use undue
means to obtain evidence, would such examination be permitted
by the practice of the Courts of Law ?
Sul GREY observed, that if the object of the geodes was
to remove any doubts in the mind or the Noble sod Louniii
Lord on the Woolsack, which were undoubtedly dreassrbeg el
great consideration, he would readily agree to its being put.
But, for his own part, he thought that the. Qpeen's case was
of such a nature, that, even if the Judges were to decide that,
according to the strict rules of Ltw, such an inquiry as that re-
presented in the case put by the Noble and Learned Lord,
meld not be proceeded in, still it would be the duty of the
House to go on with the course of examination which had been
yesterday interrupted by the Counsel for the Bill--(lloar,lsear).
Ai an individual, be was indisposed to voluble the Learned
dges en the subject ; for whatever their opinion West be, he
could never alter his own, that justice. would not be done, unless
the Counsel for her Majesty were allowed to proceed With the
evidence which they had tendered, to prove that the whole
ovu
case against her Majesty was. bottomed in a system of coo.
spiraey, for the subornation of perjury'-(Cries of Mear,lies►r 1).
His Lordship could not conceive why the Noble and Leese&
I.ortl had introduced the analogy of a civil action into the ease
which be proposed should be put to the "Judges. The present
prosecution had nothing in 'lt which had the slightest resem-
blance to a civil action. It was a criminal proceeding eff the
bkhest description, and looking at it in this lights tbe.ears:
be Wadi rather wish put to the Judges, would be tkie-s4
SoPpeilitg. in a promeudtin fora capital o(ence-and the present
was nothing short of that, for though it did not involve the lees
of life, it involved vilit was .isilnitely more valuable—logs st
station, of character, and of honour—Mow, hear, hear).-.•
Supposing sucih a prostitution, and that it should be offered

. . _
1 the Judge 'residing at the trial, to prove that an attempt
and been made to bribe witnesses whose testimony, if roe
caved,-would have been fatal to the life of the accurel.-
-Orotdd inch eyideoce, involving a pollution of the very source
of all justice. and so monstrous se injury to the individual—
geld it possibly be refused? Roe would *this be introducing
joy new. rule. Uin any case, whether on the part of the pro-
mention or defence, a suspicion is excited that an attempt 'has
bea made, by corrupting witnesses, to impose a false case es
the Court, vrbetsever that suspicion, arises it is. the duty of
tbd Court to institute an Immediate inquiry into the fact.—
Their Lordships were bound to do so now, unless they wished
le shat their esti to all evidence which might by possibility have
dm Abet of establishing that the whole of the case against
hue Majesty was a foul conspiracy rotting on false and suborned
testimony, to deprive a high and Illustrious Individual of those
ns, without which all that life can give is of no value.
treedr(lidence offered to prove the existence of a conspiracy,
wee even of a stronger nature than that tendered yesterday, and
which he (the Noble Earl) felt persuaded ought to have been
vesabred. This was not a a civil suit," nor to be regulated by
the ordinary rules of law. It seas a proceeding of the higbest de-
scription ; and, if in the trial of suck a cause, evidence was offered
to prove that the course of justice had been corrupted, and per-
WPM bribed to appear at that bar, bow could their Lordships—
adherim as they must all wish to do, to the strict line of justice—
hew could they refuse to admit the evidence? Their Lordships
Would neither do justice to their own character, nor stand with
the Public in the situation the,y must wish to stand, if they re-
tested to inquire into this conspiracy ; without which substantial
justice (weld sot be obtained.
She Ned of LIVERPOOL was In favour of having the opi-
' Ann of the Judges on this point, without, at this time, stating
mbatcourse their Lordships might deem necessary to adopt when
that opinion was given. The proofs of alleged censpiracy were
of a general nature, and had no connection with the case before
their Lordships. The Noble Lord opposite had called this a ci-
aninal prosecution, and such he would admit it was : for an act
might be criminal although the punishment should not be so.
If the Learned Counsel against the Bill could prove that the
witnesses who appeared in this cause had been suborned, cor-
rupted, or attempted told corrupted, it might be admitted as
evidence, if the agency be traced ; but the question was,
to prove an attempt to corrupt witnesses who had not appeared
for the Ifill. This, he would admit, was equally criminal in the
parties who did so, but it had no reference to the present cause.
Before the Judges retired, he would state one point, which
their Lerddiips might consider while the Learned Judges were
out, if they thought it necessary. If their Lordships were to
go on in this 'course of inquiry, sonic notice ought to have been
given to Vilmicarti and -Colonel Brown, that they might
have been prepared to meet it. If this had not been done,
how could their Lordships receive the charges of accusation?
lie conceived it a necessary consequence of the admission of the
evidence, that these persons should have previous intimation of
it. He had eo objection that the Members of the Milan Con:-
mission and Vilmacarti too, should be called to their Lord-
ships Liar, to explain their conduct. • And if they admitted this
question, they must hear the defence of the parties charged.
Lord ERSKINE said, he had already expressed his opinion
on this subject yesterday, and having considered it still farther,
and called to his memory his practice at the Bar in early life,
he felt persuaded that the question ought to be put without re-
ferring it to the Judges. It was strange to hear their Lord-
ships talk of being strictly bound by law, when it was admitted
that they ought not th be fettered by it, but to be guided only
by those means which were best for the atteinment of justicot
e.
If their Lordships would not admit this question, they were n
only binding themselves to rules of law, but to rules of law
quite inapplicable to the case. Ile would consider this asa crimi.
nal indictment against persons for suborning witnesses; and, were
he Counsel for the prosecution, he would first prove the existence
of the conspiracy, and then endeavour to bring it home to the par-
ties by witnesses who would prove the acts of the agent. In the
case of the State Trials of 1794, this was the mode of proceeding.
The conspiracy to dethrone the King was first attempted to be
proved, and then to prove the agents. This was the mode in all
cases of this nature: first prove that a conspiracy exists, and 'leo
bring it home to the parties. the appealed to the books if this
was not the law of England : first give general testimony este
the existence of a conspiracy, and then trace it to the•parties.—:
By this means the Counsel might bring it home to Viinsacagd, be
to ColonetErown, and Colonel brown to the actual peoseessor.
If there had been a conspiracy on foot, so matter by :reborn, it
was the duty of their Lordships to sift it to the 'bottom, to
prove the acts of the Agents, and tints trace it to its vonsee.--
The attemet of' nautili to corrupt witnesses was inmeausphicl in,
the history of jurisprudence; and were their Lordships, with
' tie knowledge of this fact, to suffer the matter to rest here?
If the Counsel for her Majesty proved various acts of su-
bornation of witnesses, how were their Lordships to know
whether the witnesses. already examined bad not been pro-.
cured by these means? He (the Noble Lord) did think they
bad been suborned, because so person deviates from the truth
without some sinister motive; and when their Lordships found
witnesses declaring on oath what was notoriously and wick-
edly false, ought they not to be particularly cautious in
the evidence they admitted to weigh on their minds?—
It was the duty of the Coune,4 for the defence to bring forward
evidence to prove this conspiracy ; and it was no less the duty of
their Lordship's as he conceived, to hear that evidence and de,
side upon it. if it was proved that an Ageht of the Milan Com-
mission offered to bribe a single person to give evidlloo* agatmt the
Omen, this single proof of the conspiracy tainted the whale eel-.
dence ; for, although there might be some witattest who alsill Dot
be proved to have been thus bribed, yet le *rw a sospichm spun
the whole, He would appeal to the Mike' t ogreielse. if he
had knows, before the coasadamotePt :Odds onikowsome busi-
ness, what he knows now, if be would have gone into the
prosecution ? lie felt perfectly cetnrineeti that be would not.
Their Lordships were not to confine themselves to the rides of
a Court of Junice for no Court-of Justice ever had to decide
on such a cause. 'He entreated their Lordships to permit the
Counsel to trace the conspiracy to its source, for of the eirjatelhe
of a conspiracy no one could doubt. Their Lordships would
I thus best discharge their duty to the sound principles of police,
to their own character, and to that posterity by Which their
emeduct will hereafter be judged.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE objected tin course ad-
*abed by the Noble Lord (Grey), as certainly gto oblatethe rules of evidence, which regarded the highest and the !ow-
-1 est equally. The agency of Vilmacarti had never been proved.
As far as Colonel Brown could be Cemidered as concerned in
acting for the case, that person might be looked upon as tbe
agent of the Colonel at the time the conversation took place, but
,he had nothing to do with the agency which it had beep found
amessary to consdtute, with a view to inquiry. In fact, the
aidingy that presented itself of coming at the truth, was by
by the rules of the Courts below, and deciding upon le-
Vassidlosities with the assistance of the Learned Judges.
lard ROSSINN said, that the rules of evidence established
In hie Courts below, were certainly adopted as the best means
of ardving at the truth, in the cases' which generally occurred.
There was no doubt of their being the surest means of eliciting
die truth between two parties of opposite interests; and he would
likewise admit, that those rules admitted no exception, as the ge-
neral principle upon which they had been built was of greater
consequence to society than any benefit that could arise from the
violation of them in any ordinary case; but the lases of evidence
1 41111,e.d essentially in Civil and in criminal cases. In
he criminal
'Nee, where a doubt arose, that doubt was acted upon for t
base& of the accused. Now, strictly speaking, in the ca e
before their Lordships, there was but one party who could- I e
'materially affected, and their Lordships wera not trying at
the suit of the Crown upon private information, but sittiog
to alter the law, to create a new crime, and to inflict a new
Punishment, (hear, hear.) They were there as a part of the.
Legislature, in the capacity of considering the expediency m
passing a Bill, and could they refuse to hear evidence calculated
to prove that they were imposed upon? calculated to prove that
the facts upon which the charges in the preamble of the I ill are
gunded, are false; and that the whole structure had been raised
by ro
the vilest agents, pursuing the vilest means ! (Near, hear 1
And who was the party supposed to be injurtd—The State.'
The question of expediency then was, whether, for the service
of the State, their Lordships would pass the Bel? Cerra:T-1y
the Noble Lord opposite (Liverpool) might be considered :e-
-•spousible for theintroduction of the measure, is the common ac-
ceptation of the.word. how then did the house stand affectede
?
.The Noble Lord might be responsible to the House, but he
Bran became, with him, parties to the proceeding, at the same
dam that they were judges, and sitting in deliberation whether
all shoal& adopt a Bill introduced to them under such prerts-
WNW effwefealf/Rims. They were, while :teeing in these card-
lise, called 'goo by the party accused to bear evidence to prove
dim the chases are part of an atrocious conspiracy, and that at-
tempts have been nude to impose on their Lordships, and Indere
dips to sanction a measure disgraceful to themselves and the na-
OM. They were called upon to hear proof, not that the Commit-