Star.
London, England, 1828-05-13 00:00:00

whet! er it was fair and just not mereljeto Ireland, liltfkveatest security would be found in the *Old 64 &eau
OW their own constituents, to act in opposition to what eiNtion , . " and he, therefore, implored the House,they themselveseeknowle to
-to be the sentiment of accede to the motion, and to give, by some Legislative
the country ? If the ettestignet at last be carried, provisions, :hose rights to which, under the Coristnetion
;•why not at once adopt is, while there was still time for of the empire, the Roman Catholics were entitled—.the
it to he .welcomed as an act of grace, and nut c'f mere rights of civil and religious Lee env.
extorted justice?—( Heat). Let the House then do its Mr. G. BANKES entered into an examination of the
pelt towards filling uP the measure of the Union, and respective speeches of the: Right Henoutabte Psesidete
it would realize the noble anticipations of Mr. Pitt.— of the Board 61 Trade, and the' Secretary for 1 eiototo
he
where to strike upon our weakness, they would soon -
Let that be the case, and if foreign countries have known which he confessed had disappointed him—al least, -1
did think that they would have told the House how this
find it converted into one of strong holds. Do that, and
security of Ireland was to be maintained,
if the measure
let the foreign Potentate know that the point most of emancipation was carried. He could not avid ex.
ivulnerable has been best protected. Do that, and let the pressinghioregre that they had not been snore explicit
world see that having conquered foreign nations, we as to the security be provided in granting corsew
have magnanimity sufficient to conquer ourselves. • irons. The Hot retary for Ireland talked of what
Colonel DAVIES denied that any set of men pos- danger had arises.o m admitting the Scotch to seat,
sensed an indefeasible right. Certain legislative enact- in Parliament. )S it` had that admission any thing to
meats had been passed with reference to the Catholics, do with the edmiesi of Roman Catholics to the :aeon
and they could not complain of them: it might as well enjoyments? It mos be recollected that the &toot
be argued that females as well as Roman Catholics Church was, as it weer, a part of the Protestant Estato
should he admitted to the offices of State. How the lishment, differing otly in certain points, but ourelo
' advocates of the Roman Catholics could rest their case Catholic. He wished to know from the Right Hon.
upon the Treaty of Limerick, he was at a loss to dis- Gentleman how this coNtry could adopt the steamier
cover. Whatever claim they might have upon our which were taken by the Prussian Government for pro:
generosity, they certainly had none in other respects. serving the Establishment entire? Why, not one to
When he heard the Solicitor-General of Ireland say those securities was applicable to the Church of Eng. .
that the Catholic Association moved mechanically six land. With respect to the assertion of a Noble Lod
milli :ris of people, he thought it high time that some on a former evening, who said that he would lathe
strong cot rcive measures should be adopted to suppress prefer that the Roman orators of the Catholic Assote,
it. At the same time that he opined no danger s meld tion should utter their sentiments in this House. Now
accrue to the National Church of England, he should he (Mr. B.) did not think so highly of these oratorseso
oppose going into Committee, because by going into desire to see them in this Hoose—indeed, he thought yo
Committee, it would be a virtual acknowledgment lightly of them, that he wlifsed the Association seas an.
'of the jnstice of the claims of the Catholics of Ireland: nihilated. The condntt of the Members had been moo
Had a Select Committee, to inquite into the causes impolitic. The Hon. Gentleman alluded to the oboe,.
of t!,e present state of Ireland, been proposed, teo vations of the Hon. Baronet, in respect of the conduct of
should have supported it. Supposing the Honourable a Noble and Learned Lord, sod regretted thathe should
Baronet should such eed in his motion, he must know, have uttered sentiments respecting that Noble person,
from experience, the impossibility of carrying his reso- for supporting those principles which for half a century
lutions further. He might be told that Committees had he had professed. and which if he hzd deserted, he would
already sat on this subject ; but had not his Honourable have been equally liable to be condemned for. But is
Friend, the Member for Kerry, said that the situation truth that Noble person was not aft object -for attack,
of Ireland was daily changing ? The only way to ascer• seeing that he no longer filled any officiel capacity,—
lain the entire truth of the state of that country was by The Hon. Gentleman nett adverted to the practice of
a Committee up stairs, and if that Committee should the Governments in Europe, as illustretive of the Pro.
report that Emancipation should be granted, the people tection which they gave to the established religion, and
of England possessed too much good sense to go in cp- instanced the case of Mexico in that respect. In respect
position to the recommend:6ton of such a Committee. of concession, unless we were prepared to say that the
What Ireland essentially wanted was justice.—(Hear). opposite religion should not-pay any thing towards the
The people wanted to know that there were not two support of the Church Establishment, he was atria
laws—one for the rich, and another for the poor.— concession would be of little avail in tranquillizing Ire.
Notwithstanding the loss of the great supporter of this land. An Hon. Gentleman and a Noble Lod had talked
cause (Mr. Canning), Ireland was now more tranquil of serpents and sea-serpents, but the fact was, rho the
than it had been for a long time—a proof that the Ca- sea-serpent, if you attacked him when he rose up in one
tholic question was not one which so greatly influenced Patti he would dive, and though you wounded him with
the peasantry of that country as had been represented. an arrow in his vitals, he would rise up in another—
Mr. GRATTAN denied the position laid down by (A laugh). It was material to ascertain how seats is ,
the Hon. Member for Worcester, and maintained that Parliament were to be enjoyed by Roman Catholics.—
the Catholics had an indefeasible right to the claims In the reign of Elizabeth, it was true, they had seals;
they advanced. He hoped the question would not be- but she provided means for counteracting theevils; she
come one of peace or war. He hoped it would be justly issued writs only to 20 Protestant Counties to send
decided by the people of England. He maintained that Members to Parliament, and they only returned 10. le
the English had never been faithful to their Treaties 1634. the numbers returned to Parliament of Pr ntectara
with the Irish, while the Catholics had, on every occa- and Roman Catholics were equal. Lord Su afford wrote
sion, more than fulfilled their promises. The Hon. to the same effect. It had been said, that Catholics at
Gentleman then entered into a long detail of the dif- one time had supported the Protestant Constitution; but
ferent Treaties in proof of his assertion, and quoted a it should be recollected that in the times alludsd to the
passage from Lord Clarendon, to the effect, that al- Protestant religion was supposed to approach somewhat
though the Irish were superstitious, they had always too nearly to Catholic principles. As to the argumem
been loyal to the Crown. The Hon. Member alluded drawn from the passing-of the Acts of Premunire, ha
to the opinions of various Protestant Prelates who have must remind the House that the King in whose nig'
been favourable to the Catholics, and called upon the they were passed, was, in consequence, denounced by
House to adopt their sentiments. It was a painful task the Pope, and ultimately lost his throne and his life,
to him to trouble the House upon the occasion, but it ' Mr. DENISON supported the motion. Very great
was a duty which he owed to his conscience, his coon- authorities, in and out of the House, were favourable tri
try, and his CREATOR. The situation of an Irish country the measure, and, during the present debate, the Hoare
Gentleman was most cruel, and there could be no peace had the authority of the Secretary for Ireland, aad the
in Ireland until those laws were repealed. It had been Solicitor-General for that country, that emanciparios
truly said by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, in was necessary for the security of the empire. He was
that speech which had done him so much honour, as a glad to see that the question was gaining ground in
British Minister, that they carried division into every England every day, and he was sure the country would
domestic circle; and he would add, that there never not continue to rest satisfied with a mere negative to
was a time when the fire-side of every man in the the question. It was of too much importance to be
country, be he a violent Catholic or an Orangeman, longer tolled with. .
was more disturbed by the existence of such salient).- Mr. NORTH said, he would retort the question ti
sities than at the present moment. It was impos- the Honourable Member for Corfe Castle; and in reply
sible that either of these parties could be ',brought to the question, what would tranquillize Ireland? be
to submit by force. -They were animals fert ileum, would say, Emancipation. And he would then ask the
and must be seduced by kindness and conciliation; if Honourable Member, what was his plan to pacify he
they were warred against, it would only drive them to land? With respect to the Treaty of Limerick and the 1
their fastnesses. Opportunities for removing the cause Acts of Union he would say, that he regretted they had
of all the miseries and troubles of Ireland had frequently been introduced into the debate, because, indept to:featly
been thrown away, but the time was now come when of these Treaties, upon principles of right and justice,
delay would be destructions The last opportunity was the Catholics were entitled to Emancipation. Whatwas ,
that which presented itself on the occasion of the to be dreaded from the accession of some resioetablei
Monarch visiting his Irish subjects. He had before Catholics *nto Parliament? Wbat was mere to be
seen the return of Louisjo France; and how different dreaded, was the Catholic Parliament in Ireland, who
a spectacle did the two occasions exhibit 1 The. French could not be controlled by the Irish Executive, nor eve
King entered Paris amidst the parade of foreign troops by the Parliament itself. The strength of that was sot
from morning to night, and there stood our great Cap- known to Parliament, and could only be weakened by
tarn holding the keys of Paris in his pocket; but when granting emancipation ; the refusal of it united thee
George the "Fourth landed in Ireland, he was received , body in a bond of fellowship, and in that bond tier
.by thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of persons of all descriptions, from the Peer to the peasti
thousands of men—not armed soldiers, but men ready all alike determined to prosecute their claims with i
to defend him with their heart's blood. That was an creasing perseverance. It was only of late that dn
occasion upon which this boon ought to have been Catholic Nobility end Clergy had joined that WO
granted to Ireland as the reward of her loyalty. They which they never would have dote if the Parliamente
had heard in that House of refusing to grant her just England had done justice to the Irish people. Hehe
claims, and of repelling force by force. He trusted lieved the Honourable Member for Waterford wa
that. they should never see the lion which guarded the mistaken when he said that the time was gone by via
Throne stretching out one paw to protect the Crown, the measure could be granted with grace and folio.
and with the other tearing the liberties and the charters He (Mr. North) did not think so—tin the contrary, 0
of the people of Ireland to pieces. The Hon. Member thought there was a combination of citeumstattes
concluded a long speech by insisting upon the necessity which at the present moment wculd render Eusasor
of conceding the question, in order to secure the con- tion a matter of grace and favour.
nection between the two countries. Admiral EVANS could not concede any thing wthoef
Lord ENNISMORE, as the Representative of a large Catholics, if they made their claims in the I ingotr_
body of Roman Catholics, cited it to them to speak his intimidation—(Hear, hear). He believed the Cato
sentiments fearlessly and faithfully. With respect to did not understand Emancipation in any other way th"
the laws affecting that great body, they were a disgrace an exemption from tithes. He would ask those Mew
to the country. He had however no wish to follow those bers, who took the oaths on taking their seats, fowl
who preceded him, in respect of violations of treaties.— could reconcile such oaths with their other pledges?
He would take his stand upon the ground of expediency, for, on entering into Parliarnaso, they swore that the
and would desire the Government to consider the advan- Catholic religion was impious and iJolatious, and °
tages or disadvantages of continuing the laws affecting foreign Pante or Potentate had had any jurisdiction"
the Roman Catholics. Not only were the Members of these realms; whilst it was ,well known that the Pope al
that Church unprovided for, but the great body of the regularly appointed Bishops as they ware appointed lef
people were equally dispossessed of the rights to which the King In England.
they were entitled. The Noble Lord contended that Mr. CAREW denied that tbere was any inconsiste
the present state of Ireland, excluded the Roman between the pledge to support Emancipation aad
Catholics from rights in common with their Protestant Parliamentary Oath.
fellow-subjects, and was quite sure the House must see ale ATTORNEY-GENERAL, alluding to (Lbestoll
that under these circumstances hot only must the tran. limited number oft onstituents, by whom his Itient'"---
quality of the country be destroyed, but the safety of and Learned Friend, the Member for Knarasboroasb
the inhabitants and the preservation of property be en- (Sir J. Macintosh), was returned ; and the erre o
dangered. It was not by coercive measures that the paucity of electors who sent his Hon. and Lsar7
safety of the kingdom was to be preserved ; nor indeed Friend, the Member for Winchelsea (Mr. Brouth°7l
was the Catholic Association to be put down by resort- to Parliament, contended that this was in no te'llf_.`
ing to such means; that Association would, on the con- question involving the number or character of allY"70
trary, gather ittaength from the attempt. He, there- Member's constituency.' For his own part, he now to
• duty
fore, conjured the House to adopt the motion for ina rather to discharge what he felt to be a public
nog
quiry, and. tivie thcisesHonourable Gentlemen who were posed upon him by the office which he had the Iv) ja
~,13 1
anxious for.lecUtitiel, "would have an opportunity of to fill, than in the hope of offering any argument "
E. its Doc*
stating ir ket se cur it** they required. But, in fact, the should recommend itself to the Am* /.3 .