Star.
London, England, 1826-03-02 00:00:00

Hopes
of

vitc
we entUdi
Order

tegistantie , considerable
.144,00 AY,Eirthffirsa4senitilies its here tivey did exist,
4 .
!risiaaliomr oieA,:inqi i;eliairity altogetl ter, but to a great
degsree.amatimiliaza j•Thi.ticoo. Gentleman has stated
tinit Vittittnbe 'efforts *awe been useless ; that nothing, or
4opiirtiliin tiottring has' been done, and that it now,
. .).•it L . 1, • •,y'
lillfitfllP ‘41".470ti0f that House to take the matter into
• ita cm *,hands. ,The Hon. Gentleman also says, end it
is true that I declared that, if contrary to my hopes and
• expectatinns, theie should appear-to exist in the Colonial
Assemblies a spirit .of determined resistance to the
views of Parliament, that if ciStitumacy should be mi-
rti'est.ll, that then, if that case s litiu Id arise, the Eaecu-
tire Government would he bound to resbrt to the
eglstancent,Parliement. , Undoubtedly. I. du not mean
tit deny, that in the case he had supposed, it might be
proper tqr , Parliament to interfere, so .far us to
strengthen the hands of the Executive, which I think
has shewn, that any powers with which it might Se
entrusted feraltis purpose would not. teinain dormant
inks hands. In suck a case, I have no doubt that
• there *bold be found persons in this House, in this
GoVernMent, to overcome every obstacle that might
be inneposed to. the. accomplishment of their wishes.
The only difference upon the question was, whether such
a caw of 'contumacy/pas arrived? If I were called upon
torenswer the question I would say, that it has not yet
arrived. L must certainly at the same time admit that
there were grounds of' alai m. I do certainly perceive in-
dications of a contumacious spirit ; but I would hope to
the last, and submit to grievous and frequent disappoint-
ment rather than take a step pregnant with the most
alai ruing consequences to this country and the colonies
I am now, Sir, I Mink, at liberty to assume, on the part
of Government, that the measures we submitted for'
trial in Trinidad went as far as a prudent Legislator
weld venture to go; and I will assume, that at far
isiTrinided is concerned, the measures recommended
by Government have been put into wholesome operation.
The principal chenees recommended in the Treasury
Minute, lad fru warded us Trinidad, are as follows:
Firit, that provition should be made for the education
of the slaves; secondly, that their evidence should be
tekelved tinder 'certain circumstaneet in Courts of Jas.
liCe ; thirdly, that the use of the whip should be also-
]
:'-liated so far as related to females ;''tuurthly, that th
Sunday Market should be put an e4ll to, and another
' day set apart for that purpose; fifthly, that the slave
,lihoold havelhe bower Of acqulting, possessing, and
• 'disposing of property, secured tb him ; sixthly, that he
should bare the power, under certain • segulations, of
purchating Ws' manuntlision ; seventhlyohat in sales cif
slaves, no apirld'on of families should •be allowed;
. -eiklithlt,'lllit die driving system should be put an end
to; nitithlitit%ti lharringes should-he. allowed to be
' celebrated 'along the slaves ;.. and, tenthly, that
t Sting flatikeillibuhl be established fur their service.--.
~cbdduct' 'or the Cape ( ' Hope Man-
- the .. that of
degrees of

AilrelpeCtiO4
wren :Ott 44
..61( We& Heim
.6111,1 tor the weirse. Ilespecting intirri4ge, am
alriid that the premised Isseasulet have beetratimitted
by five. The "Tight of inherit:ilia to propeitY
'has been recognised bl eight, who have either
ydoßteit,or given security for, the sfieredriadoptiOn of
the meisUre. The principle of manumilifon has been
admitted by &vie% by.some Of :which the right. was
:already possessed in a more pet fect form than that
hicli
,We recommended. The • regulation coniern.
• ing the separation of slaves by sale, has been adopted
Ott y. by four ; Upon' this ' part of the subject there
are objections, perhaps, rather of a legal than of a
Moral nature,.adEculties have here intervened, which it
is PM east; fel; the Colonial legislatures to remove. As
• to the scp.ailtitOo" of slaves hom their families, I am
alltareitiat °eV itiOlumendation has been adopted by
914-Ave., With regard to the abolition of the punish-
*frit Vellistert‘lo, erglit hate; in some way or the other,
14111edetilaitrovezeots in the system. As to the punish-
'', istootiof tesualesi.theabolition of which would be, we
*-ori.oritsppott_t thieleosiest and cheapest way of shesving a
kiff*A4ii, ear regulations, I am sorry to say,
e!. but five ruave complied with our desire : and I de-
ovialere, if there were one reason more than another which.
4s--troold thelitte• me to adopt the course recommended by
Htintibretle'llhornber (to which I am not at pre.
it- •
trw.lin jot; colter con4derations restrain mej—
lirould be •ihis,unwi!lmgness upon the parts of
if" the .'oolottintiii. abolish the co, poreal punishment
:Ide. the' fensale-'y'' for which there was not
for an adherence to which
sa4..these eanost.,be the .slithtest pretence, except, I had
:I-almost 504 fee the purpose of flying in the face of
Witty tegard to the establishment oil
saving recommendation has been attended
Israel *lrby two. Pott.the Honourable Member conceive
istimethiris afirebtrable result from the measures
104.4.thielf Wthileildblited?:- Far from it. Mit the ques-
atoned me to discuss, without re-
ference many practical consequence, leads to a different
.••••; lrtsuls..:. Whether the time be now come, when, on
3 tiectritift. of the resistance made by the Colonies to the
'l7",rigulatiiini of Parliament; on account of the obstacles
• .:Ithrown in our way, bordering upon cotrurnactousness,
'we shall be induced to abandon that • course upon

or hitlt•Wit' have hitherto acted, and which has ire-
regilis; however imperfect, and adopt
one perfectly new, With the coihrquences of which
' twe ate utterly UnacqUainied. This question I am nctw
-Unwillingsto stir, but I,do not hesitate to declare it as
my opinion, that the nine may poi•ibly arrive, when
- the question for discussion may, b 4 Abe propriety of our
.legislating for the • Colonies,. The:.l4te . proceedings of
the LegislaLive Assemblie*.of.thote ohich..trom
their wealth, their vieight and consgquence,. must be
..,;,lidenuated thst.prineipatoi,ous ,colooill,possessions, have
beauxsucks as to auks io iny,;u)inctslutinsents which 1
will not express, from the oust/Anus of !thick-IV O)
diously abstain; but I confe,s, that o hen I.cooten).;
plated the proceedings upon ttials where life is cou.l

and
of a Bill proposed to the Legislative Assembly
of Jamaica upon the points of slave evidence,
I cannot reliain fHithl marking' the contrast as most
sanguinary and revoking; and if I might be permitted
to say it, I would raise my imploring voice to the Le-
gislative Assembly of Jamaica, and supplicate that
bode to wipe out, as quickly as possible, the fool stain.
I admit that it may be sometimes the duty of a L-gis-
lative Assembly to hesitate before it passed a certain
law; it may deem another period mote desirable for its
enactment, and this Bill msy be:ome law at Jamaica
in the course of next Session. That this will b: the fact
Idu not however pledge myself. I do not lay before
die House that evidence which is to my mind conclusive,
but partly from documents which have been submitted
to my inspection, partly (torn direct information-
and from an analysis of the majority of 'the Hooke of
Assembly, which, upon the division, rejected the Bill,
am indueed to hope that it will, next Session, pass into
a law; I am therefore most desirous of leaving another
chance-open to us; lam most desirous of leaving the
execution of the proposed alteration to the Colonial
Legislature itself,' without disturbing long-established
systems, and with t agitating a question con-
cerning thirultimate piropitiety, of which I have not
the feast doubt. lam desirous of still leaving to the
Colonies a short space fa. the purpose of trial. lam
not' t variance with the Honourable Gentleman so much,
or to that degree, as to maintain, that if due advantage
be not taken of that time and respite thus aftirded, it
will not be the ditty of Parliament not to interfere for
the purpose of taking out of the hands of his Majesty's
Ministers that power which, I trust, they have not un-
faithfully discharged ; but it will be the duty of those
Ministers to call upon Parliament to arm them with
such additional authority as may be deemed requisite
upon the occasion. During the period of this delay,
to which I have alluded, it is proposed by his Ma-
jesty's Government to adopt such a course of proceed-
ing as shall bring the intentions of the Colonial Assem-
blies to a direct trial. This it will effect by the introduction,
through the agency of its dicers abroad, of Bills into
the Houses of Legislature. and in which will be ern-
bodied the substance of the Orders in Council. These
the Colonial Governments will be called upon to accept
or to reject, modified according to the convenience or
necessities of each. It is the intention of Government
:that this course shall be adopted during the ensuing
Session. The House will now understand, that since
'the first discussion of thit question, there have been
three gradations of conduct with regard to the colonies
upon the part of his Majesty's Government. In the first
place, the vote of the House was transmitted to the
Colonial Legislatures, with a recommendation to con-
form to its instruction, and desire. %Vista this measure
had not the desired success, we drew up an enactment,
whichtwe were to impose upon those over whom we
'possessed authority, and were to recommend its adop-
tion to those over whom we had not actual power.
This pleasure having also failed, it is our present inten-
tion to piopo4 certain Acts, so framed, as to have the
Orders issAlouneilembasdied, aid to call upon the Co-
'lettiet-Legislaftttetto costae at once to a decision upon
theist, so modified as to fie most advantageous to each,
_but ii Wing upon each to form it: de.
cision. An nnwilliogness to accept our regulations
does, I am sorry to admit, exist amongst our colonies,
caused in a'rett -degree, by a misconception of their
;std how. But when we recollect how -many
~,sc9sto'bre plain to our understandings, how many
,inga.-thvin are clear to our wishes and our feelings,
and consider the strict of years which they require to
'have thkin insinuated favourably into the British Par-
liament, it is not. I think, too much to expect that
three 'successions, three repetitions of experiment, should
be required for the purpose of insinuating the adoption
of certain measures into the Colonial Assemblies, inure
.especially when these measures, upon their origin, ap-
peared to take them by surprise, and were not only
supposed to interfere with the importance and feelings
lof our Colonists, but were also,and no doubt most mis-
tikenly, imagined to place individual interests at hazard.
The unwillingness upon the part of the colonists is, as'
it appears to me, also founded upon some pretended
right to compensation, to which they affect to think
themselves entitled, in consequence of that deterioration
in colonial property, which must follow as a matter d
necessity from this measure. I am not aware in what
this deterioration can exist, except it be in the with-
drawing of the services of the slaves by meani of com-
pulsory manumission. Por this withdrawal front his
ownersbip, the master will find a coppensation in the
appraisement of the slave. But is fie to obtain corn-'
pensation for his ameliorated situation? Most certainly
.not. Such compensation does not exist for the master ;
or if he seek it, will he loot find it in the increased hap-
piness and comfort of the slave?—(Hear, hr er.}—Will
he not find it in the gradual approximation of an almost
brutal population to the feelings, the rights, and disposi-
tions of civilized man. Many other misconceptions do,
' am convinced, also exist, which I hope to see done

torture

away. I am at least anxious that the trio' may be made
before Parliament adopt any new steps Which may in-
tercept, the triumph of our measures, which if they
'succeed, their attainment will, under such circumstances,
be the' mole grateful ; and if even they fail, we shall
have the consolstion of reflecting that we had not
recourse to other means until we had exhausted all
expectations of success. The Honourable Gentleman
seems to have anticipated this portion of my argument
horn his alluding to a speech, which, &rill the last
century, I delivered in this House—(laughtnx)--and
has endeavoured to fix me with the opinions of that
'speech, and to hold me bound to follow them oh the
present occasion. l• own, sir, I have often felt a degree
of envy for throe men who are not tramelled by re-
spon-ibility, (loud cheers and laughter), and who can
give full scope to the enthusiasm of their nature,
throwing upon others the necessity of reducing their
feelings, although equally strong, and moulding them'
into the form of political espediency..(Cheers). 'cannot
take upon myself to remember all the opinions I deli;
vered at the period referred to. I will not say I am
over [modem now, but I was much less so then; and
although I do not quite remember the accaiion, I
do not mean to shrink from the, responsibility': and
yet, perhaps, one ought not Lobe too.strictry.o4(l4 lii
Inpillitms delivered at Id distanettperiod. .I.ondersranif
that pains have been taken to distribute rilltle extracts
from a work of an Hon. and lAatued Gentleman oppo-

igham)i indeed Ml,lve been favoured with
.tracts„ %tit ich thy 111pprittle Geode's:tan
• bcoffinillehis m saytitg Stier
‘) Altltbligti lanbet rdtlsfl>~itt II!
My:istdotsr,• in those early &starches
the duty ;of the utsice not, to
.rote
slates with the ekecution. of measures for
improvement, I cannot help thinking it must have
en on some discussion of the Slave Trade. Then
.nete Was no question of emancipation ; and as the Co-
lonists then maintained untruly, that the abolition ulthe
Slave Trade would be injurious to their interests, I
rather incline to think it was an answer to some such
argument as that, and that I contended, where there
was an uncontrolled power, and an unshackled supply,
there would be little economy of labour, or of hu-
man life. The leader of an army of one hundred
thousand men would be much more likely to rush
into inconsiderate enterprizes than he who had a little
nucleus of 20 000. This, I rather think, was the purport
of my argument; but I speak entirely from conjecture.
But what I sta ed then is not inconsistent with what is
proposed now. Do I trust to the masters the sole exe-
.cution of measures of improvement for• their slaves,
When I tell them, that if they do not accomplish the
object, there are measures behind, which will compel
them ? Is it oat, in fact, trying everything first, before
it becomes necessary to rrsor t to immediate coercion—
(Henr)?—Coercion must be a?plied to copfirmed
con-
tumacy—but that degree of contumacy has not yet
arisen, to call for its ese:cise—ilieor,hcer).—l do con-
fess, I have seen some symptoms *displayed, wh ch the
Government would much desire to seadone away with. But time
may render any extraordinary interference vmsecessary ; and
during the interval which shall be left for the trial of the experi.
ment, I mean to supply an emission, which I am at a loss how it
could have occurred at the passing of these Resolutions • but I
mean to propose that these Resolutions be communicated the
House of Lords, for their concurrence. I have ow" stated the
Miele amount of what the Government proposes todo. I trust the
House will agree with mein thinking that it would be inexpedient
to make any attempt at legislating in the present Session; but I do
so, neither denying theabstratt power of Parliament, nor the possi.
bility of an occasion arising for its exercise; but simply not admit-
ting that a case has arisen to cal fur its exercise at the present
moment--(Cheers).

Mr. BROUG HA M wished to know, from the Right lion.
Gentelman, how many of the Colonial Legislatures from the period
oldie 6r't discussion upon the subject, up to the present time, have
passed laws repecting slave evidence, manumission, and driving.
He did not know that any thing was 4one except at Tobago and
Barbadoes. In those islands Acts were passed respecting slave
evidence, but of a nature so islands,
that they were, as they
ought to be. rejected. lie also wished for information upon a
fourth most important point, the separation of husband from wife,
and of parent from child.
Mr. Secretary CA-N NINO having referred to his documents,
answered, that the islands of St. Vincent, St. Kitts, St. Lucia, and
Grenada, kad passed resolutions as to the competency of slave oil-
, deuce. There were no resolutions on the subject of manumission;
but as to the separation of families and general punishment reso-
I Wiens bad been passed by the Legislatures of Tobago, Sl. Kitts,
Grenada, and St. Lucia.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, be was still uninformed as to whether
the whip was abolished as a stimulus to labour ?
Mr. F. BUXTON, wished to know if (as the half, of the slave
population was to be found in Tobago) any thing bad been actually
dole in that Island? The Governor had lately stated', that another
Session had been allowed to pus without any thing being done for
the ameliorations of the slaves?

hlr. Secretary CANNING believed, t►at the being allowed to
take property by bequest, was the only thing done for the slaves in
that bland. This was not 'deluded in the order of .Council, as the
right was granted by the law of the bused.
Mr. W. SMITH animadverted on the decision of
the House of Assembly of Jamaica, and appeiled to
the teeth of the Disks of Manchester in confirmation of his opi-
nion that nothing was to be expected from that body in accordance
with the Views of the House. It had osanifested a spirit whist*
might yield to fear, bet wialial.saa not to be subdued by forbear-
ance. TIN speech of the Hight Hon. Gentleman which had been
alluded %owes made to 171i1; sod although the subject then under
discussloo was the African Savo Trade, the principles asserted in
that speech would be found equally applicable to the question of
the manumission et slaves.

Mr. S:cretary PEEL said, his anxiety to promote
the object of the Petition must be his apology for re-
commending caution to Hon. Gentlemen. Whatever might be the
future conduct of the West Indian Assemblies—whether they
adopted the alternative of continued resistance, woof submission
—(and he hoped to Gen they would adopt the latter)—the
of abstaining from irritating language was obvious. If they were
compelled to legislate it was desirable that they should have willing
instruments to carry their laws into effect. The Right lion.
Gentleman-commented with great force on the state of the law, as
it now existed in the West Indies, with regard to the evidence of
slaves. It was calculated to impair the security of every interest.
as well as to degrade the character of the slave. He said he should
abstain from any lengthened observations wpm' the subject, lest the
strength of his feelings might inadvertently draw from him takes.
sions calculated to provoke discussion and produce irritation in
any quarter. They had all one common object in view, to amelio-
rate the condition of the slave, and he trusted that every Hen.
Gentleman would cautiously abstain from expressions militating
against the attainment of that practical object.
Mr. SCA RLETT entirely concurred in the observatioas of the
Right /ten. Gentleman. He thought that the best mode of itts.
proving the condition of the slaves was to conciliate their masters.
He was convinced that reproaches or menaces would be product '
dye of mischief rather than advantage.
Mr. PHILLIPS said, that from his conoections with the West
Indies, be wAs enabled to state that the Colonists had no objections
in the abnract, ttfithe measures contemplated by the House, and
he was sure that they would attend to the recommendations of his
Majesty's Government, as far as they could consider them calcu-
lated to preserve their property. He recollected the opposition
made to the abolition of the Slave Trade; and %hen those who
had contended for the cessation of that odious traffic had been re-
garded as enthusiasts, but he had lived to see them now regarded
as the benefactors of mankhadr even by those who had opposed
their efforts.
Mr. WILMOT. HORTON said, that if the subject
were tmiecumbered with other considerations, and was
one which the House could at once effectually and
satitactorily legislate upon, he should have wished that
the motion of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman
(Mr. Brougham) had been brought forwird without
delay. .But any person who like him (Mr. Wilmot-
Horton) had been compelled to look more closely into
this subject, would be convinced that it was necessary
to have many objections cleared away, and, above
that it was necessary to make the West India proprie-
tors understand the exact scope and tendency of the
measure they proposed to adopt. If the protests and
petitions by the colonies were examined, they would be
found to rest on the con victi.m that an attempt was made
o weaken their authority over their slavts, and to do,,
some injury to their property. As that opinion should be
effaced by means of argument, sold of experience of a
contrary intention, the conduct of the planters, he had
every reason to believe,. would become very different.—
He was satisfied that there was no love of slavery on the
part of the West India proprietors ; but that everything
which they bad donerand which was objected to by this
.country, was founded upon the mistaken notion that
their property was to be injured. The House was aware
that oa the Ist,of January, 1826, the Orders in Council
with respect to Demerara were to come into effect—
that is, that all the clauses of the Trinidad orders, o ith
three exceptions, were to be initiated at Demerara. The
utmost apprehensions had been entertained, that from
the mottling those orders came into effect a great in
`Tangent-int *staid be made on the, property of the
masters, owing. to-the stillkrence in the treatment of
4 slaves. He had ttis day received a letter trout a Lien-

. , • r.... -
,
• k •
‘ -••
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• ar- -, ico ~.. 4 - ,-x1 7
..- 1
I 1 ) . Ir. ) 4UI ) i v,i, ,e,L.i (. )
of9PitiVt"-tlifi ii.--tintpit. tittit.coarse. , Hai
beqn *it. A'ittie*leif Resolutions t
Amite ,irow - vf,,ANtrioCo4' instripe with all
titling, and :tinplate to coriesppndent act'
-COletiid'Aietakdtgate)ltisttiis, I lament to say, w
bliAit:dii4oll Zilit'llielOPniiing year we em
.40 VAlMusiCflt sink Ati*Onis_ in %.-....1"f.
Cosettiloins ' wpm Attain, t.o. tonics w ri c
tegi•laittlit VaiiseJlj arid wxiietted. to hate a, tonsil

' 4111 ft cbilduct' of the Cape of Good Hope and the IV.
;Mitts tir'a erfcriked by the same' isrfaciple with the
aid ffieill colonies acted in varied degret
"40sedietite id the ordetVin touncil.4l am ready ton
chliei.colorilatpossevObs vrbi,ch;'with &Serest
Wleeicielitive.ettiothenti tif tbeiriviva
stied Geelii.ll., *sited and.
csstated the veggie?
i'oCOOiermaint, retigiotw'htstruci
"lin4l (he orls6itiliyi'iatrd 'fir/Edits:
g4tatitnit Were received it, aittair mote or lessin
fied—by eight out oftwelve." The tegulations respec
,the evidence' of I.aveit *ai adlsted by seveti'dt
t welve, d:fferetteirilifieatlern4 nicfor Welk

-=----;*tellikte. 'depending:l4on slave :file sate; necessarily site (Mr. Brougha
I.had dnier existing citormsttannils tubsettn.-•4 ndot;eate 'pet= „one 9i F a e extra
' that diap.g,justly,* Wipe Ospitdepetvi sve that
.dmitiption
..iriillArtistst; not I;
of tgprnintilp 41,411fi1, /or 4.l.Arsonrie of proving t, teadiintif'this dot,
n the distinct isf inslinted cruise. en
.1 conceder OPreOse period of t
havi 'small 'a istSrtioo' evidetice SteiLii:ary even iiipon laid would be
;odied trials 'fin' 'RR; the'. testillis -mott .painfel to .any the masters of sla
er of feelings : when, at the same moments L cameos- their improvemer
• local plate the results of those trials) and die resection been on some
dig
._ .1.- T ec:anahlr Was ‘no nue!