Star.
London, England, 1810-04-13 00:00:00

PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL. Ift.
The Duke of PoLLTt..%t`U took the Oaths and his seat.
The Earl of I.rii.R roo:. on the TAhle sundry Papers res-
pecting the number of .'oretgn troops id British pay, and those
of them now in this countr•.
FOREIGN TROOPS.

Lord KING rose to make his promised motion on
the subject of Foreign Troops in the British service,
and the number of such now actually employed in
this country. His Lordship commenced by making
some observations on the ancient constitutional prin-
ciple, which forbade the introduction of foreign mer-
cenaries into this land, which practice had so greatly
increased during the last 10 years, and that, too,
without the only pretext that had been heretofore
used for such introduction ; namely, the immediate
danger of an invasion by the enemy. He thought
that this practice, at all times, a fit ground of jea-
lousy, and one which our ancestors always looked at
with the greatest attention, and with strong and con-
stitutional suspicion, demanded at present, from the
great and unprecedented extent to which it bad been
carried, the particular notice of their Lordships on
the present occasion. He then proceeded to notice
the various occasions on which foreign troops had
been brought into this kingdom of late years, par-
ticularly the American corps, in the 29th of George
the Second, and the Hessians and Hanoverians
nearly about the same period, which last were for
the service of the colonies, when it was enacted that
the Colonels should be British born subjects. Much
'more necessary it was to attend to the propriety of ap-
pointing foreigners to the rank of Generals. There
had, it was true, been occasions in our history, in
which some relaxation or exception might have been
considered expedient. In the reign of King William
the Third, for instance, there were foreigners em-
ployed as Generals in our service, such as Schomberg,
&c. nppointnaents that might be necessary and useful
at that time ; but in the present times there was nei-
ther such a necessity, nor such merits to call for an
exception to the constitutional principles and practice
of the realm. Against such employment of 'foreign
troops, he would quote the language of the Act of
Settlement. His Lordship added, that there seemed to
be even a sort of partiality shewn to the foreign troops,
as far as he could judge from the Army Estimates,
where he found that the foreign soldier stood at the
rate of £47 per man, while the British soldiers were
only at the rate of *44 per man ; and that the propor-
tion of half-pay between 170,000 British troops, and
27,000 foreign troops, was much in favour of the
latter. While on the staff, he also observed that the
foreign officers retained full pay, while only one-half
of the British officers did the same. Foreign Gene-
rals also commanded districts in the country, through
the ambiguity of the provisions of the Act of Parlia-
ment of the 14th of July, 1804, and by that amhi-
guity they might just as weil, any of them, be made
Commander in Chief, and that two, even qlthough he
were a Roman Catholic; because he was an alien.
After various other remarks on the propriety of sup-
porting the constitutional laws of the realm, and the
jealousy with which we should look to the employ-
ment of a.foreign military in this country, his Lord-
ship concluded by moving Resolutions, censuring the
keeping of so many foreign troops in this kingdom,
acknowledging at the same time the force of the pro-
visional acts on that subject ; but asserting that they
did not allow of the appointment of foreign officers
to the command of districts in this country ;. and,
stating various particulars of their present appoint-
ments, such as the existence of five now in command
in Kent, Essex, Sussex, Ireland and Scotland, &c. &c.
Thd Earl of LIVERPOOL rose and said, that
he did not mean to enter into any constitutional dis-
cussion on this subject, as he had no opinion contrary
to the acknowledged pi inciples of the Constitution.
His Lordship had only to vindicate the conduct of
Government in this matter, by the Acts of Parlia-
ment which had been passed upon the subject.previous
to the admission of these foreign corps into this min-
try. This practice of the Legislature was consonant'
to what the Legi4 mire had adopted during the last
four wars in which we had been engaged—:a practice
not the effect of prerogative, but sanctioned by Par-
-14111404 after due consideration of all the circum-
stances of the different cases—a practice upon which
the list Administration had acted, as well as that
.which had preceded it, or the present one. He rea-
dily allowed the constitutional Jealousy on this point ;
'ut that ground of objection he thought entirely oh.
viated by his Majesty's making an early communica-
tion of the circumstances to Parliament, and his can-
ing upon their wisdom to carry the intention into ef-
fect, at the same time that he enabled them to consider
the flatter fully. So far the vote of Parliament was
an exception to the general rule founded on the con
veniency and urgency of the case. An Act of Par-
litment passed during the first year of the war, autho-
rising the reception in this country of such troops, to
the amount of 10,00 C). At the present time, he be-
lieved there were not more than 5(X)0 of that descrip-
tion, in Great Britain and Ireland. With r.spect to
partialities, he must sty that there was no fnundation
tor such a charge, or such a sit,picien. The General
Officers of the foreign corps did not enjoy more ad•
vantages or pay than what the regulations aff. irded
to our own Officers; and there was nothing in the
Act of 1801., to prevent their appointment. to the
Staff. lie s:iw no ground for any constitutional fears '
upon this subject ; and he had hoped, th it under all
the circumstances of Europe, and c.f this country,
and the carious employments for which our military
force might inevitably he destined, that the general
opinion of both Houses of Parliament would have
been, that the employment of foreign corps, to a cer-
tain extent, against the summon enemy, wos not only
not blameable, but perfectly proper ; more especially
vhen it was considered how difficult it was greatly to
recruit and enlarge our native military force, under
all the circumstances of our increasing manufactures,
our thr ving agriculture, and our growing commerce.
He believed that no one who was well informed op
this topic could refrain to pay to the foreign troops so
employed the tribute of praise that he was convinced
they merited, for their good behaviour,• and for the
courage they had displayed whenever they had been
called upon, as they had, to hear their full share in the
dangers and glories of the military service. For this,
he would appeal to those who had the best means of
information.
The earl of ROSSLYN made a variety of obser-
vations on the subject, and entered into a number of
details. I-Eis Lordship paid high compliments to the

praiseworthy conduct of the C ennui corps 17. British ,
pay. At first the nuttlea of .-lanove.-;.o ;8, &c. en-
tered into our serv'ce 'in clnsequnce .of the King's
Proclamation, as Elector of Hanover, amounted to
about 5.)00 men, in' the year ISM ; but they en-
creased afterwards, by successive additions of their
countrymen, animated to resistance against the ene-
my, to 12,000. They were not kept idle; but in
1807, one half were sent to the Mediterranean, and
another halt to Sweden ; and since that period they
had not remained here, except those corps which were
reduced by sickness or otherwise, or were merely
passing from one scene cf duty to another. He felt
himself bound'in justice to state, that they had borne
their fair proportion of general actual military ser-
:vice. Their officers had possessed the command of
the brigades of their own countrymen, but not of Bri-
tish forces, as they had almost invariably been under
the orders of a British Lieutenant-General, when both
troops were joined on any service in which they had
been engaged.
The Earl of LIVERPOQL said a few words in
explanation.
Lord GRENVILLE rose to say a few words on
this subject; first, aid' respect to what the Noble Se-
cretary of State had alluded to respecting a 13111 pas-
sed during the few months he (Lord Grenville) had
the honour last of serving his Majesty. He wished
Noble Lords to recollect, that a Bill on this subject
was passed at the close of the Session of 1801. ; and.
fie hoped they would take example from this instance,
uud:every other of this kind, of the difficulties and
dangers consequent on such a mode of introducing.
important Bills into Parliament, or they would but ill
discharge their duty. He would venture to say, that
it was in consequence of such a practice, that the em-
ployment of foreign Generals remained a matter of
legal doubt, even under the provisions of that Bill,
notwithstanding a practice of six years since; all which
doubts might have been remedied by precisely and
properly framing that Act. When he, and those with!
whom he acted, proposed the Bill alluded to, in 180 G,
they gave no opinion on the subject, and consequently
none could be fairly imputed to them. The formation
of the measure was in 1801, and the troops had been
sent abroad, where most properly sucll troops should
be sent, to their °No country, to the North of Ger-
many. During the first week the Noble Lord vas in
office, he was in daily fear that that army would never
return ; but luckily it was saved from the wreck of
Germany, and from the rashness of Administration.
He also learned the increase of their numbers. They
had been invited to joi ~ in consequence of advice
(which would have been reluctantly given by himself)
not as fugitives, but for the deliverance of their own
country, and of Europe, on the faith of a proclama-
tion. Their situation had to a certain degree become
desperate, and they were on their way to the British
shores. ft was in that case impossible to exercise any
discretion on the subject ; nothing was a more impe-
rious duty than to keep sacred our faith. Whether
the original question were right or wrong, Ministers
had no option. The present Ministers wished always,
from a bad habit, to ve off' responsibility tns the
shoulders of others. I-1 • ,old assure them that he
came down dispose., r ly to defend the policy
he had adopted,hu• • t ! tof 1801. He mas not
afraid to avow In 'n that the circumstances of
this country -1! •• . . •: ye rendered it adviscabiet
a limited , • yloy such troops to in the
I common : impressiAt was no: against the
employment of the • r..ops, but against the number of
foreign Generals commanding districts. This was a
case that ought not to admit of doubts, which, it was',
unnecessary for, him to say, might, under certain cir-
cumstances, be questioned in the most disagree-
able manner. He was much obliged to his Noble
Friend (Lord Rosslyn) for his statement respecting
the manner of employing the foreign 0 fficers, of whom,
and of the troops, lie had no doubt of their merits.
They (the Officers) should be employed as Brigadier
Generals ; but it was always an inconvenience when
they were employed in command, especially so at
home. Government ought, therefore, to take great
care that such command should be, if possible, but
temporary. The King's Servants were bound, in such
a case, to exercise more than usual caution,

The Earl of LIVERPOOL then rose, am! moved
the Order of the Day, which being agreed to nem. Air.
a conversation ensued on the resumed debate, as to
the Bill for consolidating the clauses of the various
Acts, by which capital punishments are inflicted for
otlences against the Revenue Laws. Lord grenville's
•niginal proposition for refet ring the Bill to a Select
Committee wits changed to one for referring it to an
Open Committee, to be composed of all Lords who
had attended the present Session of Parliament, which
was carried nem die.—Adjourned.