Star.
London, England, 1819-12-03 00:00:00

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 3, 1819.

Just published, gage, he trusted care would be taken to render them
pil ts vIItIORUNI CLASSICS. effectual.
and X. of the DELP H IN and Lord ERSKINE spoke in explanation. Referring
oit u m CLASSICS; sot:wrung Vasa,
principally to what had taken place respecting the
Cosa, wkh an Engtavilg, by Cower.
Price to Subscribers is al'. each Part. Large indictments for High Treason in 1794, his Lordship
le, The prices will be hereafter raised. Fifteen; observed, that on that occasion a vast body of infor-
,sov-a, from the 6th of February, to persons now mation was laid before Parliament, which, in its opi
ittaibe at the original price. Subscribers always Minn, no doubt, justified the steps which were then
he rice at winch they originally enter ; and may
taken, but which the result of the judicial inveAiga-
wa for large Taper by paying double that price.
be rect ived by MT. A. J. Valpy, the Editor and tior,s proved not to have been well feunded. Though_
ok'ocourt, chancery-lane, London.
PROSPECTUS. Grand Juries found Bills, the parties accused were
all acquitted. When he looked at these Bills in the
Tat will be used, and not the Delphln. The Dot,
aggregate, and felt how little like England, Eng-
the Om" and the Von us Beading; will be plazed
at: bifida which, the Notes in the best Vasa:Rust land would be, if these Ig,ls were passed, he could
be printed at the endl each Author. not but feel both disgust and alarm—(Hear, hear).
s will be adopted, and carefully collated with The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that it
name,. the present numerous faults it the references.
was on his own views of the circumstances of the
ce will be to the Book and Chapter, and not to the
ich means the same Index will apply to all other cases which bad come before him, he had deemed it
iha Li ercril ,11Taitta front the &pont Editions, coo- his duty to prefer those indictments. With respect
present time, will be added to each Author.—Thus to the present measures, he differed materially from
rperated, as it were, the Dtt.runr, Bitorr, and the • •s
ni Noble and Learned Friend, who, however, had
Ferrsnss.
vrited.headt will be given of such Authors as can be argued much more against the enactments, than the
nn alchemic sources.—The Mars will be bcauti- principle concerning them. He was fully aware of
ed, "d eerie" illestretiee W's"-Ce'll. Will he in- the constitutional right of the subject to have arms
for his own defence, but not for. any purpose dan-
gerous to the public peace. He well remembered
what had passed in the House of Commons, when
that great man, whose talents and whose political
productions had rendered him immoral (Mr. Burke),
produced a dagger, and which was kept as a memo-
rial of that great character's conduct—a weapon
which was to be used, not in self-defence, but for
purposes destructive to the State ; so was it with the
weapons contemplated by the Bill before their Lord-
ships. The principle to which he referred respecting
late constitutional right to arms, was incontrovertible.
;With respect to Meetings for the purpose, by means
of physical force, of effecting an alteration in the
I..aws or Constitution of these realms, it was so far a
treasonable overt act. Of this, constitutionally
speaking, he thought there could be no doubt.--
With respect to the provisions of the Bill, he could
have no wish to render them more rigorous than the
necessity of the case requited, but he 'trusted that
whatever alterations may be proposed in the Com-
mittee, their efficacy would be preserved.
Lord BEDESDALE. in support of what had
fallen from the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, ob
served, that the facts which had been stated in the
Reports of the Committees of the year 1794, were
sub.equently credited by the Juries to whom they
were submitted.
Lord HOLLAND was of opinion; that the truest
decision on such cases was that of a Court of Justice
and, in those alluded to, no verdicts were obtained
inst the accused. The policy of the present system
ifmeasures he deprecated, and thought the present
tituation of the country was chiefly attributable to the
‘iisconduct of Ministers. It was clear, that where
There was much discontent among the People, they
were either very bad, or they had a bad administra-
tion of Government. The Noble Viscount seemed to
think the Bills would best be considered together,
and as a part of the system of policy necessary to be
adopted ; but in no view which he could take of the
subject, could he afford an unqualified assent to these
Bills, nor could he yet think their principle could be
safely sanctioned, without farther evidence of their
necessity. With respect to the Training Bill, there
was an obvious inconsistency.. The punishment of
transportation was provided for the person who
drilled, and yet for the person who was taught, who
might be the more guilty, there was but three years
imprisonment. With respect to what fell from a
Noble Lord opposite, on the point of anonymous in-
formation, the fact may be worthy of attention, that
there were several Orange Lodges in that part of the
country, and whose existence and practices were
thought to excite great discontent. With respect to
the second Bill, that for the Seizure of Arms, he
deemed it objectionable in many points of view ; it
was, doubtless, inconsistent with the principle laid
down by the Bill of Rights, from which. a proved
necessity alone could induce him to•depart. He was
opposed to the maxim that there should be one law
for the rich and another for the poor, as was the ef-
fect of some of the arguments : but if the necessity
for disarming were proved, it should be done with
all possible tenderness. In the Committee the mea-
sure may be made less objectionable. He regretted
the absence of a Noble Friend from indisposition,
who thought with him, that the whole of this system
of policy was founded in gross error. One of conci-
liation, or a retracing of steps, would be more likely
to be effectual than calling upon Parliament to put
down, in this way, the existing discontents.
The LORD CHANCELLOR again quitted the
Woolsack. He explained his difference from the
Noble Lord, in point of his construction of the true
effect of the Bill of Rights. The subject was allowed
arms for his own defence and individual protection,
but not for purposerhostile to the safety of the State
or destruction of the Constitution ; and on this prin
ciple he had acted—a line of conduct he was pre-
pared to defend, and willing to abide by.
The Marquis of BUCKINGHAM contended that
dere was an important difference in the proposed
1111111111111 M of disarming a part of the People, which was
es be considered with a reference to ihe object. When
doe persons were obvioutly armed for the purpose
ef Overthrowing the Constitution, thee could be no
*infringement Of the Bills is so doing : and it became,
from that moment, the duty of Parliament to disarm
them. On that principle the whole discussion. of
those questions proceeded. The facts alleged were
of public notoriety, and formed ample grfends
beingofd
imposed upon Parliament, They hatview o apply a rase-
-away to an existing evil, and in this he w
against any impolitic compromising of the Coattitu-
nom As to the objects of those who contended for
Annual Parliaments and Universal Belfroge, their
with respect to the Coastitotieer Wee too
to be mistakes or 644.

r will beprioted uniformly In Ocro, and 'will make
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iced to the somber-of Subscribers.

'LIAMEATARV PROCBEDINGS.

(OUSE OF LORDS, DECEMBER 2.
oN, from the East India House, presented a cepy of
ions pawed by tne Conn of Directors, since the last
:he subject of Grants, Annuities, and Pensions.
("A RNA RVOS presented ..ome Petitions from
rti t•f the County of Semi ret, respecill the system
Public-houses and other subjects, which, gut a
r .2s, Lord ROLL," were ordered to lie on the table.
glib of LANSDOWN moved for an Account of
t laurmations and Indictments in eases of libel,
'ioteedings thereon, which hate occurredwhbin the

. rise to a short conversation on the subjett,in which
AND :nd the b. tic of lay:grow. and itomisys partis
st:qui.i.ce to the first-mentioned Peer's proposing
MOtitlit, by eniargqg ire operation r
inin, inclusive. The result was, that IT=
lot psrsicted in, and an order made pursuant to tln
Lion, respecting which,
of It OSSLYN suggested the propriety of ha lie
Scotland ; which was agreed to.
NO, AND SEIZURE OF ARMS BILLS.
tder of the Day being read,
int SIDMOUTH rose and observed, that on
rat occasion, and after what he had stated
iner evening on the subject, he did not feel
ary to occupy their Lordships' time, by en-
ao any detailed statement of the nature and
as of those Bills. There was, he observed,
and in the Act passed in the 52d year of his
when some parts of the North were in a
agitation, provisions nearly similar to those
i
neasure now proposed; and in some respectt
:t even went farther : this particularly refer-
Bi'.l authorising the seizure of arms. He
?cave to state, that whilst he considered the
at.nn conveyed by the papers already before
mert as forming ample grounds for these mea-
he was induced still more earnestly to press
pcedy consideration, in consequence of most
;ant information. which had been received
ti.e last three days, and of which he would
ay, that it shewed that training was carried on
:0.,t alarming and increased extent in various
!.rs, and along with the procuration of arms, was
as actually convinced him that the speedy
ion of these measures was more than ever in-
..siblc to public safety and private security. He
d therefore now move that the Bills be read the
d time.
td ERSKINE said, that the 52d of the King
'Tamed for the protection of machinery ; a thing,
trtght, ind is pensibl y necessary. Still he thought,
Sent Acts, if less severe, would better answer the
loses for which they are intended. He could there-
with that persons found guilty of the offences
iied in these Acts, should be deemed guilty of
ientanour instead of felony. Many of the per-
iled to such scenes as described in these Acts,
tgo there out of curiosity, and not from any
nil intention. He, therefore, wished that some
oition should be given, by constables, or others,
!"kr, them of their danger. Adverting particu-
-610 the Bill for authorizing the seizure of arms,
it:that some of its provisions required srave and
iis consideration, as going to affect an important
inintional right of the subject, and which be
kled would receive some modifications in . a fu-
lardt LILFORD thought, the greatest part of
fell from the Noble and Learned Lord was
14t more proper for discussion in the Committee,
la in the present stage of the Bill. He contended
31 the evidence before their Lordships shewed the
zeitity of even stronger
said
than those pro-
Much had been saia against the practice of
Itg anonymous information, but of the necessity,
was, of such a mode of procedure he felt con-
ed. lie w:is particularly aware of this, with re-
m a certain case in the depositions laid before
of the blauchester Nla3istrates, and where he
'"11 a knowledge of the party as induced him
Pict implicit confidence in the statement ; nay,
""htlent, that if any Noble Lord opposite-
-4
"Pally aware of the circumstances, he would
crane to the same conclusion. Of the necessity
I"i'osed measures, be bad no doubt, and
'ant alterations slight by Blade in a ram"

The Duke of SUSSEX thought it appeared to be
imagined that those who questioned the conduct of
Ministers on the present occasion were inclined to
support the system of what were called Radical Re-
formers. Nothing could, however, be further from
the truth. Adverting to the points more immedi-
ately before the House, his Royal Highness said; he
was inclined in a great measure to acquiesce in the
Bills proposed ; but he again deprecated the idea
that those who may rather think otherwise were ini-
mical to the interests of the State. For the character
and conduct of the Noble Lord on the Woolsack,, he
had the highest opinion ; and, were his Lordship
' now in the situation of Attorney-General, he felt
satisfied that many of the difficulties which the coun-
try now suffered would nut exist. The situation of
things at present was one that called for inquiry,
which would best point out the proprr remedies
be xrflied ; and with respect to the Bills in question,
the objectionable parts could be best discussed and
obviated in a Committee.
Lord DARNLEY entertained no objection to the
Training Bill ; but as to entering houses for the pur-
pose of searching for arms, some difficulties, perhaps,
might arise. Previous to the 16th of August, there
was a very dangerous spirit among several indivi-
duals in the manufacturing districts, and itinerant
demagogues were going about the country to those
places where distress most prevailed, and where peop.e
were likely to he deluded on account of their distress.
".After that day, his Majesty's- Minkers instituted an
inquiry, and advised the Prince Regent to thank the
Magistrates, and to return his answer to a Petition
presented by the Corporation of London. He would
not enter into a detail the transactions of that day,
but the events of it were most disastrous. Men,
women, and children, were crushed and trampled
upon, and many received sabre wounds. When Par-
,figment met, the Public supposed that an'inquiry
wools* be instituted, but an application of his Noble
Friends to that effect was objected to. They should
satisfy the People that they were' prepared to do their
duty to them, and that might Rut down any improper
proceedings. • Their obedience to the laws must de-
pend on the attention which • the House paid to the
interests and liberties of the People. It bad been
said. that the conciliation offered eras Parliamentary
;Reform. He believed such a measure of conciliation
had never been proposed or thought of. He must,
however; say, that be would _rather live under the
government of the Noble Secretary of State than of
131 r. Hunt and Dr. Watson—(A lough).
I 'The Earl of DARLINGTON 'in.a first speech)
requested their Lordships indulgence, While he trou-
bled their Lordships with a few observations, which
laci.an important reference to the discussion-of that
miming.- He was one who possessid some stake in
the country, had long been a Member of their Lord-
`ships House; and, since the year 1792, held an im-
portant appointment under the Crown (Lord Lieute-
nant of the County of Durham). He had much op-
immunity of knowing those parrs of the country, and
be had taken some pains to acquire correct informa•
tion as to the real state of things in those! quarters:
In many parts, doubtless, perfect quiet prevailed ;
but it appeared to be more of the nature of sullen
silence, than of real quietness. He adverted to a
1 recent extensive Meeting in the neighbourhood of
Newcastle; but it was one which took place under
unfortunate circumstances, arising out of the diffe-
rences between the colliers in that quarter and the
keelmen ; it was also of such a nature, that though
they separated quietly, it had -attracted the notice of
all who wished well to the established Government.
Property was seriously menaced, in some instances
attacked, and apprehensions were entertained of a
rising taking place. This raay occur within a few
days; and it was certainly tine, that while they (the
Lords) were deliberatingthere, there wain* doubt but
many seditious deliberations were taking place, parti-
cularly in the northern parts of the county of Durham.
Quantities of offensive weapons were collected, and
there was no doubt but those who collected them
eidler aimed at the destruction of the Constitutiou of
the Country, ,or endeavoured to excite such tumults
as would endanger all, property in the coontry—
(Hear, hear). On some points, connected with those
questions, he must disagree• with many of his Noble
Friends. Mention was made that nighttif the effect
of anonymous information.; but he, for one, had re-
cently received information, and from I quarter
which he would not upon any account disclose. In
such cases as that before them, Noble,Lords would
individually judge for them Selves. He had the
greatest deface= for the opinions of his Noble
-Friends, whom he generally, supported; but on this
Occasion he would be guided by his own. With re-
apect to the Bills in question, on some parts he may
bans some hesitation—those may require some alter-
ation, so as to improve the general tenoui. Bat he
was free to say, such measures were absolutely ne
:gasser/ ; and he ated, that he had received infor-
mation, which I t him in no doubt, and had
hr
im-
pressed upon s mind the necessity of Ministers
.bringing forward some measures that may be called
strong. He was desirous, in such an emergency, of
seeing an union of talent in both Houses, to chat the
country could have the advantage of their opinions
in defence of the country; but a union of this kind
was rather to be wished than hoped for. As to the
Causes which led to the present dangerous crisis, he
thought they fin med a distinct question. To talk
tipon the question of Reform, as connected •
contemplated by such persons, would '
Waste of words, though some degree .
Reform would, perhaps, be advantageons
mcg( Hear, hear, hear).
Earl f STRATHMORE stated,
was possessed of some important information
' the part of the COlnti alluded to by f
who bad just spoken. 'His Lordship
verted to the nature and extent of
whisk bad recently taken Omni 1
*en. Ould.sit wit/. Mb, WM" of

netted with, or his vote either on the question for an amendment, or
Duld bt a mere an the motion of the Noble Lard (cestleseash) of "
'ee or sPecies of Tuesday, purely from rpotiVes of a personal nature..
kgeodb Ir never He hoped he had apt 'been guilty Of .a dereliction et
his duty in sp. doing. In the present instances too!
tied; that he also ever, when the nia.ser came betoie him in let publie
information from point of view, he corusi not allow his priir
y the Noble Earl to interfere t sad be rase now for theism ispetiqa
R Principally ad- in the face of the House,. that frou.
many' Meetings he hall derived from, the..paperetet raelPtAlitergila
Of theft ifilThr he should feel itinctiasturnt. hinkCyr atio,...
re musk" .alid tie the sisesures aistoeacedby thi •