Star.
London, England, 1816-03-30 00:00:00

He called upon Ministers Abe to reduce their Esti-
maids, or to state some reason satisfactory to the
country *b they persevered in these unnecessary
'burdens. lie would net enter into any question
regarding individual Clerks, because he felt that the
whole estinia'e was liable to the strongest objections.
Sir GEORGE WARRENDER remarked, in re-
ply, upon the great changes, the complete alteration
of system, io every department, since 1797, which
rendered that a most unfair year of comparisons—
The Civil Establishment of the Navy had been ren-
dered mulch more expensive by the introduction of
task work into the King's Yards, and by the employ-
meat of machinery, for both which inspectors were
necessary, nut
.before required. He begged to state,
that the Estimates for 1803 were nut brought for-
ward until fourteen months after peace had been
signed, when matters had settled to their proper
level ; yet they exceeded those of the preceding year
by W-16,470; stud in the same departments in the pre-
sent year, there was a reduction of 01,130 upon the
expeuditme of the year Itfls. He did not think suf-
ficient credit was given to Ministers for their endea-
vours to promote economy ; and though the twelve
members of the Navy Board had bean reduced to tea,
by vacancies not supplied, no praise had been given I
them for their forbearance. The ogee of one of the
Assistant Surveyors had likewise not been filled up,
from the same motive. As to the appointment Of
the third Surveyor of the Navy, those who had at all
examined the question would admit that it was con-
si.ient e.:th the strictest economy.
Sr J. BERESFORD hoped that no reduction
would be made until the shipping were tcpaised, for
that work could not be delayed without the utmost
disadvantage.
Mr. J. I'. GRANT csingratulated the Hon. Ba-
ronet on the discovery, since the last discussion upon
this subject, of an accidental piece of economy of
which he was not before aware : lie had done wisely
now to bring it forward, for instances of the kind
were most valuable, ai they were most r ire. (Hear,
hear.) %VW' regard to the great increase in 13 )5,
alter the peace, if lie (Mr. Grant) were not grossly
illistaken, it was in the department of the yards,
which then had undergone considerablz aiterations
while the reductions were made in the other civil
trenches. Not competing these estimates, 11• wever.
with that period, lie begged to be informed of any
adequate motive for :tow/tenting any s darks since
11515 ; yet the receiver of fees had obtained an ad-
dition to the extent of the whole amlunt of the s im
paid to him, and the surveyor of buildings aid
draughtsnien had been raised from 461) to £1t).50.
la short, there seemed ..a the face if the papers an
avowed determination to take the ut iinst that could
possibly be-obtained from the consenting d.sposition
of Parliament. Ministers were acting, not on a s) s-
tem merely of profusion, but almost et laity, :tilt
a studious design ot insulting t:-.e people of G:eat
Britate, without f.i.i)ing the least attentien to their
reiterated comriaints against the undue weight of all
liublic buriens—(l/efirr, hear.)
Mr.CIIOKk k, attar apologizing for again intru-
ding himself upon tile Committee, defieu the other
side of the House to produ:e a single iiistance in
..Bich the expenditure of the civil depart/roans in die
oral year of 14:ace ha.l not been at least as large as in
die last year of war. Ties W. 4% a position irora wl!ich
be could not he removeO, and a reference to 17ii$,
178 t, and I 803, 'would establish it heyohd contrautc-
tio i : the only diarence between the prevnt a:.d
Lo.i6e } ears was, that whereas now a 'eduction
been ttlected after the peace, formerly no setc:t
j.:ct had been accomplished by tl.e Minister. Ile then
restated what fed from him on a previews Light re
specting the augmentation of the stlaries of about
t.vo hundred Berk:, who, mail that event, had been
literally starving upon annual payments. not exceed-

• t., on t;.*: el 70. Among thi-se tno bun-
pasoni, voly £2600 b•nl been Lis.

Mr. TIERNEY adverted to the statt•ment made
uy the litnioerifi,ie Gentlem in (Mr. `„raker) a
Loner night ; and now rep-aged, that the civil ex-
pendittne of the first yea; of peace was always equal
to ghat of the list ye..r of war. This miOt or might
i•ot b. trip:. :'i former years; but it did not alttr
what be r.r. Tierney) had inconrrovertioiy
th it comlior.;;;; -the estimates nuw brought forward
tor the fist year of peace with tho':e voted for the
last year of ; war, ISt 4. there was aa actual
increase of A-0,000. Ir could not, however, be de-
nied wen as applied to former years, the asser-
tion of the Hon. Genthvan (Mr. Croker) was not
correct with respect to nerilcular departments ; for in
;749, compared with 1718, there was a decrease from
sfil,tXX) to 'MAX). As to the peace of Amens, he
(Mr. Tierney) never had and never would examine
at ; but he referred to the Noble Lord (Castlereagh),
then in office, to state whether in the sort of jeopardy
in which the nation was then placed—when, between
the signature and the Raliiication of Peace, a French
fleetisad been s at out to the West Indies—it was fit
to make it a point of comparison ? (Hear.)--lii truth,
the Honouraole S:cretary to the Admiralty had esta!
Wished nothing material to the val question why the
Lstitnates of the present exceeded those of the last
year by £20,000; but if indeed he imagined that he
had gained any son of victory in proving that the
people ought to bear all the burdens of war in a tittle
of profound peace, he (Mr.. Tierney) was not at all
Anzio/is to deprive him of the triumph. He Was
aware that, let him say what he would, he could
effect nothing; and .foe this reason he would not enter
into the details; but it was a great and striking fact,
last wtteleas in PM the charge for the civil esta-1
blishment was £Bl,OOO, in 1816 it was increased to;
the enormous sum of 4230,000; and he apprended
that the country would not be satisfied without a
strict inquiry into the causes of the prodigious dif-
ference. Ths Honourable Baronet bad spoken *of
machinery occasioning fresh expenses, when, in truth,
it had been pot up merely from economical motives;
and, it it defeated its own purpose, an auditional
ground was laid foe examination. • On the race of
the papers it appeared that, since 1800, the clerks of
the Admiralty had been raiaed irom IS to 28 without
any reason assigned laud tl he (Mr. Tierney) nislieJ
to take the sense of the Ce4nouttee upon the ques-
tion, there was no-ntoJe of doing so now, as the re
lotion timely referred An amount of m ney. Why
did Miiiisters refuse ass (pay, it they re,sll) meant
o save the public n.o ? :LAS Ins firm anti cfm-
iciegiious conViet.l-1.. it .ite wtag le• Matt r W.ic
probed LO the th•LWale very large Wan gitisns be,