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London, England, 1819-05-26 00:00:00

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to press k this day. Hewished to know if the Noble Lord would
, loW it to take precedence of other business to.morrow, as if it
\N.
,e,. . 1111,s , apt cove on then it must go off fora fortnight, and to de. any
irkfThe motion ought to be brought forward without delay.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, if the modou were postponed
from that night, he should feel it his duty to conform to any
. ar-
cvs t that could be made for bringing it on early to-morrow.
motion, after a short conversation, in which Sir C. MOYCK,
Mr.unsay, and Lord CAeruuntasia participated, was post-
poned till to-morrow. ...
The SPEAKER begged to inform the House that the private
business was now so nearly disposed of, that public business could
be entered on at an earlier hour than had been usual of late.
Lord CASTLEREAGH moved that the House should resolve
itself into a Committee on the Report of the Committee on the
EESUMPTON OF CASH PAYMENTS.
The House having resolved itself into the Committee,
Mr Alderman-HEYGATE, who was in possession
of the House on the preceding night when the ad-
journment was moved, resumed the discussion. No
man could more lament the state of our currency
than he did, but the remedy suggested in the Report
of the Committee was that of which he could not ap-
prove. He went over the history of the Bank Restric-
tion Act—traced its effects up to the present period,
and contended that Bank-notes were not now, nor
had they ever, been depreciated. If the Resolutions
before the House were carried, it would go to con-
tract our currency, and this would produce great
mercantile embarrassment and distress ; for -he con-
tended that in the present situation of the country,
the same quantity of circulating medium could not
by possibility serve to transact the business of the
country which was found sufficient in 1799. The
statements which the Right Honourable Gentleman
(Mr. Peel) had made last night in opposition to this
assertion was fallacioui, as he had left out of his con-
sideration the issues of the Coiintry Banks, which had
greatly increased between the years 1799 and 1809.
By some it was argued, that. Gold being now three
per cent. above the price of Paper, all that was wanted
was a reduction of three per cent. on the issues of
Paper to bring every thing right. Never was any
argument more fallacious. This he could shew by a
reference to facts. The Bank, in November, 1817,
- had Notes in circulation amounting to 1:29,544,000.
Since that period their amount had been diminished
by-0,0000300, and the price of Gold, instead of fall.,
ing.,wit,ls that reduction, had •become considerably
higher than it was at that time. He was of opinion,
that every argument founded on the price of Gold,
as analogous to the value of Paper fell entirely to the
ground. Ile therefore thought it would be most im-
politic to regUlate the issues of the Bank by the price
of Gold at all tizzies. He referred to the history of
the calamitous year 1816, to shew the misery and
mischief which must result from a sudden contrac-
tion OT the circulating medium. He for one should
be glad if Gold could be found to supply the place
of Paper, but from a premature reduction of the num-
ber of Bank-notes, he anticipated a repetition of the
distress of the year 1816. In the view which he took
of the effects of a'diminution of the issues of the
sank he was borne out by the evidence of Mr. A.
Baring, part of which he read to the-House. Under
the most favourable circumstances it would cause great
embarrassment, but supposing the ensuing harvest to
prove unfavourable, foreign Governments to be still
iiegating loans, and the exchanges unfavourable to
this cohntry; he was of opinion such a measure would
produce calamity exceeding all that had hitherto
been known. Those only would profit by it who had
fixed incomes, and these would profit in the increased
value of those incomes at the expense of the produc-
tive lab'ourer. He proceeded at great length to shew
the evils which would result from the proposed
change. He contended the situation of the country
now was very different from what it had been at those
periods referred to by the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, for then we bad not a debt of 4:845,000,000,
nor a. revenue of £54,000,000. This enormous sum
be did not think •it would be possible to raise if the
plan in contemplation were carried into effect, which
he was confident would have the effect of throwing
the poor out,of employment and of increasing the
Poor s Rates. Much mischief had already beendone
by the agitation of this question. He called upon
the [louse to look at the situation of the country now,
and compare it with that in which it was found at
the, commencement of the present Session. Then
public credit was high, and commerce flourished ;
but from the moment the Secret Committee was ap-
pointed, nothing bad been known but stagnation and
distress. This too, he would observe, was not con-
fined to the City of London. The evil extended to
the remotest parts of the country. This he knew
would furnish an argument for going on. Having
auffcred so much already, it would be said we ought
CO be content to endure a little more to obtain the
sre4 good desired. He should be content to do so,
if he did not feel that it was not a little more that
would do, and was convinced that it this measure
passed, greater distress must be expected in the ensu-
ing Summer and Autumn- than had yet been expe-
rienced, Unless it were modified, he was certain
that no landlord would be able to• get his rent, and
the greatest calamities would fall on the country. He
noticed the arguments of other Honourable Mem-
bers, and contended many of them were fallacious in
the extreme. The Bank of England, in the paper
which had been laid before the [rouse, interfered with
the Government in a way which he could not approve,
but still he thought this measure would subject that
, body to hardships to which they ought not to be ex-
posed, He, however, thought the plan of the Corn-
, soittee would give them a controuling power over
the circulating medium which no private company
•
Aught tOPosrss. More time ought to be allowed
' the lank to prepare for paying in Bello than it
was now proposed should be given, and he could
only find one recommendation in the present plan that
was much calculated upon. This was, that it gave
the ptiblic additional security that Cash Payments
should be resumed at the period now to be fixed upon.
He was, however, of opinion, that without such secu-
d
a they might be satisfied the Bank would comply
with what they knew to be the will of Ministry. and
.of-that House. They ought then to place that confi-
dence in them now which their ancestors had always
--ripoied in the Bank, and which the Bank had never
forfeited. If it could be proved that they were un-,
~,fir by AIL such confidence, their charter ought to be,
abrogaued, and a new liaak established, on which
. they, could more securely depend—(Hear, hear.).
• ireAllotight 'the public ought to be left to pay the
,turiprgit. o€ ,their debt, which they were willing to
meet under the present system. The Bank, he be-
lieved, would have resumed Cash-payments before,

~~

had they been paid what they had* advanced
serviced*. the State. Now he was of opinion
ten ought to fund a great part of the unfunded debt,
establish a real sinking fund, and meet the difficulties
of the country with vigour and decision. When he
looked at the falling price of the funds, it appeared
to him, that to call on the Bank to pay their notes
in gold, at the moment a large loan was about to be
negociated, was in fact to throw the money of the
public away. He knew not what that House could
say to the terms of a loan negociated under such
circumstances. Anxiously did he hope that the evils
which he anticipated might not occur—but he did
confidently expect that they would be severely felt.
He therefore called on Ministers to remember the
sacrifices which the people had made, and save them
from the impending calamity. if those who would
stiffer from the measure now in contemplation had
over-traded, to use the fashionable phrase, they still
deserved the pity and protection of the House, and
ought to have time allowed them to recover them-
selves, by introducing the contemplated change more
gradually than was at present proposed.
Sir H. PARNELL thought many of the inconve-
niences which the last speaker expected would arise
from the adoption of the plan now under considera-
tion, could only be felt if the Bank were compelled
immediately to resume Cash-payments. The course
recommended in the Report was that which appeared
best calculated to effect the object in view—for if
the House were merely to declare that Cash-pay.
ments should be resumed at a distant day' he doubted
not, the price of gold would be kept up as it had hi-
therto been, so that the Bank would have as good a
case as ever, when that time should arrive, for cal-
ling en Parliament again to postpone the period for
the resumption of payments in specie. He thought
the present measure would only diminish that part
of the currency which was founded on fictitious cre-
dit. For the practice of over-trading, if it should be
checked, he thought every friend to the prosperity of
the country would have reason to rejoice. Ile did
not see, any strong reasons to induce him to think
that the plan recommended in the Report of the
Committee would compel the Bank materially to
'diminish the amount of their paper at present in cir-
culation; He felt that the currency of the country
was at length likely to he restored to a sound and
healthy state, and for one he felt grateful to those
who had contributed to effect so desirable an object.
Mr. GURNEY (of Norwich) said that in 1797 the
amount of the public debt was £400,000,000, and it
was the inability of paying the interest ofthis debt in
specie that rendered the Bank Restriction necessary.
It was indeed said that a public alarm was the im-
mediate cause of the Restriction. Let this be granted.
What was the cause of this alarm but the conviction
that we had gone so far,in debt that it Would be im-
possible to continue paying the interest of it unless
some measure was adopted? Accordingly the Bank
Restriction Act was passed ; our guineas were all
gone and we could not get them back. The feeling
was now, that the plan for removing the Restric-
tion would Occasion such a reduction of prices that
it would be impossible to continue paying the interest
of the debt ; and, in consequence, the national cre-
ditor was alarmed. It now appeared; that of the
£25,000,000 issued by the Bank, a 0,000,000 repre •
witted the debt of the Government, and this sum,
so long as it circulated in paper, was received by
the Government. But now the Government were
for taking these notes to the Bank, and insisting on
having bullion. On this the Bank very naturally
said to the Government—" you owe us twenty mil-
lion pounds, pay us that sum in gold, and we will
then agree to circulate that gold, instead of our
pa per—(hear.)
' Lord FOLKSTONE said, it appeared to him that
the Right Hon. Gentleman who brought forward the
Resolutions before the House had not stated the case
of ,the Bank quite fairly. It was not exactly true,
that all the merit of returning to the standard of
currency was due to Qaeen Elizabeth ; because,
in fact, she had done no more than what was deter-
mined on by Edward the Sixth. As to what had
been done in the reign of William the Third, it was
a return to the ancient standard, but merely fix-
ing it.' His objection to the pin df the Chairman
of the Secret Committee was. not to its principles,
but with the mode in which it was intended to put
them into operation. The scheme of his ll6nourable
Friend seemed to him better. There could be nb
doubt that returning to the ancient standard would
be attended with many inconveniences ; but the mea-
sure now proposed, and the quarter whence it pro-
ceeded, sheaved, most strongly that truth was sure
ultimately .t.c, prevail. Yet although there seemed to
be considerable unanimity cm the general principle,
there was much difference as to the particular mode
of returning to a metallic currency. However much
he was rejoiced at the change of opinion in the Right
Honourable Gentleman and the others who had for-
merly opposed the Bullion Report, it was impossible
not to feel that the Right Honourable Gentleman
might have used some expressions of regret that the
House had not sooner proceeded to an inquiry, and
checked the obstinacy of the Ministry. But the most
strange thing was, that the Right Honourable Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer, while he agreed to the pre-
.sent plan, protested that all his opinions remained
unchanged. How this could 'be, considering. that
the principles of the plan were diametrically oppo-
site to those opinions, he could not understand: whe-
ther the Noble Lord opposite (Lord Castlereagh)
would say that he had given up his old opinions
against the Bullion Report, he did not know; but he
trusted, if that Noble Lord favoured the House with
a statement of his opinions this night, he would enter
into the subject somewhat more fully than the Chan-
cellor of the Exchequer. Part of the proposed plan
was to repay £10,000,000 of the debt due by the
Government to the Bank, and this sum was to be
provided by a loan. It was to be considered, that
the interest of this loan, and the various expenses at-
tending it, would amount to the annual sum of nearly
two millions and a half.'He could not see atif way of
providing for this new charge, but by an increase of
taxes; and he would put it to the House whether the
country was in such a state as to bear any new taxes?
It was a Very hard thing to cdutpel thepeopletopay
the national deciliter in specie the itnqiint of interest
due on a debt which bad been contracted nixie
tie, but in paper. But hard as this was, it was ex-
actly what would'happen in consequeficeiof the Re-'
sumption of Cash Payments. If we returned to the
old standard by such inconveniencies, any distress

prove.ULITAVOUTADW, IC/reign UrCIVCCIIIIMII.4 M., U. a 1...
ditor was . ,
tie&vting loans, and the exchanges unfavourable to alarmed. It no
L 2.5,000,000 issued by the
this try, he was of opinion such a measure would
seance! the debt of the Go%
produce calamity exceeding all that had hitherto
so long as it circulated in
been known. Those only would profit by it who had
1 the Government. But no%
. , fixed incomes, and these would profit in the increased
for taking these notes to tin
' value of those incomes at the expense of the produc-
f : having bullion. On this 1
• tive lab‘ourer. He proceeded at great length to spew
'I , said to the Government—"
the evils which would result from the proposed
;. ' I i change. He contended the situation of the country lion pounds, pay us that i
1 11 ! now was very different from what it had been at those then agree to circulate ti
F' 11 r
ft
periods referred to by the Right Henourable Gentle- paper—(hear.)
man, for then we bad not a debt of A:846,000,000, ' Lord FOLKSTONE saic
the Right Hon. Gentleman
• nor a revenue of £54,000,000. This enormous sum
be did not think it would be possible to raise if the Resolutions before the Hou
Alt.
plan in contemplation were carried into effect, which of ,the Bank quite fairly.
he was confident would have the effect of throwing that all the merit of retui
l' 't the poor out,of employment and of increasing the currency was due to Qa
. , Poor s Rates. Much mischief had already been. done in fact, she had done no m
by the agitation of this question. He called upon mined on by Edward the
! the House to look at the countrycrow, been done in the reign of V
• i
• , situation of the
and compare it with that in which it was found at .not a return to the ancient
the, commencement of the present Session. Then ing it. His objection to t
I , public credit was high, and commerce flourished ; of the Secret Committee %
/ but with the mode in whir
. but from the moment the Secret Committee was ap-
them into operation. The
a
I• pointed, nothing bad been known but stagnation and
Friend seemed to him be
• A distress. This too, he would observe, was not con-
1 , doubt that returning to th
fined to the City of London. The evil extended to
e i .
Is' .. . the remotest parts of the country. This he knew be attended with many inc,
would furnish an argument for going on. Having sure now proposed, and tli
euffcred so much already, it would be said we ought seeded, sheaved. most me
.
; s'. t, to be content to endure a little more to obtain the ultimately .tc, prevail. Yet
t
.gre4 good desired. He illiquid be content to do so, be considerable unanimity
, if he did not feel that it was not a little more that there was much difference
would do, and was convinced that it this measure of returning to a metallic c
passed, greater distrqs must be expected in the ensu- he was rejoiced at the char
.., %
a, i -
lag Summer and Autumn- than had yet been expe- Honourable Gentleman an
rimed, Unless it were modified, he was certain nierly opposed the Bullion
that no landlord would be able to• get his rent, and not to feel that the Righ
the greatest calamities would fall on the country. He might have used some exp
I noticed the arguments of other Honourable Mem- House had not sooner pros
bens, and contended many of them were fallacious in checked the obstinacy of tl
e, , 1 the extreme. The Bank of England,i in the paper
which had been laid before the I- ouse, inter( with
the Government in a way which he could not approve, strange thing was, that the
cellor of the Exchequer, v.
.sent plan, protested that
but still he thought this measure would subject that, unchanged. How this cc
t -
1 , body to hardships to which they ought not to be el. the principles of the plan
rod, He, however, thought the plan of the COM- site to those opinions, he cc
, seduce would give them a controuling power over
0 ther the Noble Lord opi
the sit medium which no private company
r
would say that he had 1
i I Ought to' possess. More time ought to be against the Bullion Report
posrallowed
. !
' the Bank to prepare for paying in Bullion than it trusted, if that Noble Lord
was now proposed should be
.given, and he could
I •
% a statement of his opinions
only find one recommendation in the present plan that into the subject somewhat
°'
il I was much calculated upon. This was, that it gave
the public additional security that Cash Payments cellqr of the Exchequer.
was to repay £10,000,00(
0 should be resumed at the period now to be fixed upon. Government to the Bank,
r .'i He was, however, of opinion, that without such secu- provided by a loan. It w
5
I Td iathey might be satisfied the Bank would comply the interest of this loan, ar
qii
' with what they knew to be the will of Ministry and tending it, would amount I
i
,of•that House. They ought then to place that confi_ two millions and a half.'H
1 ' dente in them now which their ancestors had always providing for this new cha
- --repoied in the Bank, and which the Bank had never taxes; and he would put it
' forfeited. If it could be proved that they were un- country was in such a stet
1 '.
.4.0.4, oL such confidence, their charter ought to be It WAS a very hard chitty
' . arrogated, and a new 11:ank established, on which the natiOnal ciedltror in spo
, . they could more securely depend—(Hear, hear.) due on a debt which had i
• • irefficeight 'the public ought to be left to pat the cie, but in paper. Bet lo
. 4 utprot. of . theiT debt, which they were willing to achy what would'happen
meet under the present system. The Bank, he be- sumption of Cash Paymer
keyed, would have resumed Cash-payments before, old standard by such in(
.. _