Star.
London, England, 1810-06-14 00:00:00

PRIZES AND CAPTURE OF VESSELS.

Lord COCHRANE, previous to his bringing for- I
ward the motion of which he gave notice, moved that'
there should be laid before the House, accounts of the
net proceeds of Danish ships brought into port before
the commencement of hostilities with Denmark, and
of the net proceeds of Dutch vessels taken before No-
vember 5, 1795. Ordered.
The Noble Lord then addressed the House on the
subject and nature of his motion. He was aware that
it would be opposed by the Right Honourable Gen-
tlemen opposite, and by the Heads of the Admiralty.
He entered into a variety of statements, illustrative
of the present situation of British and foreign trade.
In the course of the three last year.i our home trade
was decreased, as the numbers 51 to 17, or one twen-
tieth, and a little more annually, ana -this, notwith-
standing the communication with Spain being opened.
The mariners of the Continent had increased is the
same period from 23 to 29,000. In the British trade
the tonnage has fallen as 37 to 25, or one third. The
foreign trade has increased from 417,000 to 550,000
tons. Our imports and exports are equal to the in-
ward foreign tonnage alone. All these evils did not
result from the machinations of Bonaparte, but frcm
our bad councils. He was of opinion, that if half of
the force of the kingdom was properly employed, the
war would be concluded in 12 months. He thought
that no Minister should rescind the revenue arising to
the Crown from war ; but if the Droits of the Admi-
ralty and of the Crown were to be continued, they
. ought to be applied to the purposes of the State, and
not of corruption. He adverted to the Bill now in
the House for securing to the Chancellor of die Ex-
chequer ancthis brother the office of Registrar of the
Admiralty ; he was far however frOnfattributing any
improper motive to this. He did not deem It either
Very sAtisfactory or useful, that .4 the ()IA thousand

ir!ssels. now floating on the ocean, .the Admiralty
should be acquainted with the situatiOn of each—ta
stimulus was unnecessary to call forth the spirit of
the Navy, fiat he thought that prizes should be :astir
andltonestly appropriated ; if this system wii one
established, the commerce of the coast of Frame*
would soon cease. Having stated these preliminatits
he now should enter into a detailed proof of transac-
tints, similar to which had been seldein brought be.
fore the House. He first read the order
authorising the capture of the ships of the
subjecting those who neglected so to do
damages in the Court of Admiralty.
House to be acquainted with the nature
of the King's Proctor, if any cause of complaintieftifas
against him it is only by him that complaint
made to the Judge. The Noble Lord
number of Acts for encouraging the
ertiott of the Navy, and proceeded to state
of the Judges in the time of Queen '
subject of prizes, which was that all
in her Majesty's name should be lawfully
the captors have a liberty of going into
to be allowed their own Counsel.
person of the name of Stanlforth, a-proctor,
use of his intet est to obtain an Order Council,
to employ him, one individual, for the
of all the captors claims, thus uniting
interests of the King and of his clients,
for both in a •double capacity, which
to the law. The Courts of Law admit
title them to insurance, and make them
costs and damages. With respect to
of the duty of King's Procter as it now
ever might be the exertion of an indi.
impossible to transact the business in
It appeared from documents in his possession,
on the 3d of June, 1806, the Proctor
on his hands, on the 80th 29, and on
vember, 59 ; this being the case, no
fide their interests with safety in such .
never in his life sent into the Court of
neutral vessel ; there were many instances
done, but it was on a bad speculatiol.
tered largely into the case of W. 114
stated to be a British subject, and a nem%
he had had an affidavit of Stanilorth's
man to be a faithful and loyal subject, yet ,
time be could adduce documents to prove
Moir had received the thanks of the
missary of Marine for his services in the
this was the faithful subject. He repeatO
possessed documents to prove Mo:r ai-
was reported as an object worthy of
The Droits of the Admiralty amount
millions sterling, a sum which he thong,
chievous in the hands of the Crown, thi
even in Spain. He concluded by movini
ing resolutions:—

" Tharthe officers and seamen of his Majesty's
and were entitled to the highest support and considerati.m
House, and that every inducement should be
courage their exertions, and excite their emulation.
" That by an order of Queen Anne, after the
lawyers, It was directed that the Crown should ,
of captures, and that the Olficere might intervene
for their own benefit.

" That tkis order was superseded bf a decree .
the 99th of March, I 779, which vested in the King's
conduct of all l'rize Causes.

" That it is essentially requisite that captors
their own Proctors as formerly.
" And that leave should be given to bring
better' regulation of proceedings in the Admiralty
The first Resolution being put,
Sir JOHN NICHOLS rose and said,
the former solemn discus;ons in that H.
not have supposed that the Noble Lord
ventured to accuse the Officers of the Court
ratty with a wish to wrong the captors.
satisfactorily explained the case set forth ►
Lord. The Honourable Gentleman
observing, that the charges were made
slightest foundation, and could only
malignant suspicion of some secret,
adviser of the Noble Lord.

Mr. STEPHENS condemned, in
mcnt manner, the introduction of the
the consideration of the House, and
the Noble Lord had made a pledge
wholly unable to redeem. He trusted,
Lordship's good sense would induce hi.
confess his error, and in a disinterested
tract the charges he had so incorrectly
Honourable Gentleman then proposed
first four Resolutions, and in lieu of the
stitute one complimenting the Court __
for the integrity with which it had invariabl,
ed the public interests.
Lord COCHRANE replied.
Captain BERESFORD bore testimon;
nourable conduct of the King's Advocate
casions.
.Sir CHARLES POLE said a few
port of the Resolutions.
Mr. ROSE said there never was a
ed charge than that submitted to the
Noble
The 'House then divided—ln favct'r
rane's Resolutions 6—Against them 76
After a short conversation betweeen.
and the CHANCELLOR of the EA:CHEWER,
Report of the Committee appointed
cedents relative to the case Sir F'
was ordered to be re-committed, in
the erroneous manner in which it had
Mr. W. Wynne was added to the s iid
SLATE TRADE.
Mr. BROUGHAM postponed his
to the Slave Trade, to this day. He
anxious to bring the subject forward
he heard, within the last two days
standing the Act passed relative to tl
traffic, no less than six slave ships were
a British port within *short time past.
TI e Orders of file Day wart then &pa*
seliourned at Three o'clock this Mon** .

spsetopb.rer
olifminatrentisa7
dodin brought be
• of reprisal:4
f the enemy, and
) do to costs in
He wished the.
ture of the offic
' consplaintexi
omplaint can lass
ord then read. a
3e duty and ex-
state the opi tion
en Anne, oil the
all vessels 'taken
fully share A, and
into Court, and •
. After this a
a-proctor, made
rder of Council,
the management
Ling in one the
ien:s, and acting
ich was contrary
lmit captors, en-
e them liable to
to the discharge
ow stands, wbat-
adividual, it LW'S
in a proper, way.-
; possession, that
t had 16 causes
on the 19th No.
D one could emi-
ts a person,. He
of Admiralty a
Ince: of its being
).1. fie then en-
Moir, whom he
aturalized DARes
's declariqg this
yet at the-same
prove that this
to French Coal.
the I.lst war--
epeatO that he
traitor, still he
,f remuneration.
tinted to eleven
night to be mis-
, this was not so
wing the follow.
tsty's navy deserved,
consideratiJn of U,
be herd out to to
:he advice of eminent
old prosecute in wit
itervene is time caws'
ccre* of Connell of
King's Proctor the
ars should appear by
2g in a Bill for the
inky Court."
said, that after
▪ House, he could
.ord would have
it Court of Admi.
ptors. He most
orth by the Noble
n concluded" by
aade Without the
ly arise from the
but dangerous
in the most ?elle-
n question under
id observed that
.;e which he was
:ed, therefore, h.s
him candidly to
ested manner re-
ctly made. The
ed to negative the
f the last, to sob-
art of Admiralty,-
nvariably consult-
aimony to the ho-
ivocate on all oc-
few words in sup-
s a more unfoond-
lel-louse by the
:111 f %
'oer of Lord Cush.
)76—Majority 70.
eenMr.W.WyaN E
MIER, the Second
ord to seek fot pre.
r Francis Bdrdert,
in consequenee of
iad been prepared.
Lid Committee.
his motion relative
for was particularly
this Session, as .
tys, that r.otwith-
o that abominable
were fitted out is
'St.
sett of,ead the WIN
•
•

HOUSI OF LORDS, JUNE IS.

Ike LORD CHANCELLOR called the attention of their
I.orsishlps to the subject of the Roxburgh Peerage, and intimated
his intention of making some propositions relative thereto to-
morrow.

The Bills on the table went through their several stages—.
among which was the I.ottery Bill, which was read the Sd time.
Mr. Lushington, Mr. Stewart, Sir James Graham, aad others,
brought up several Bills from the Commons—Among which were
the Dublin Improvement, Lord Orntond's Butleragr Purchase,
and the tit. George's Parish Improvement Bills.
The House then proceeded to the Ordt rof the E Day on .ui
Grey's motion for an Address to the King, oh
THE STATE OF THE NATION.
EOGREY then rose, and commenced by saying,.
that the more he considered the various difficulties
and dangers which threatened the country, the more
be was also convinced that the erroneous measures of

the Mug's Ministers tended•daily to increase those
~- difficulties' and those dangers ; and he felt a strong
and serious apprehension, that if the system on which
\
they proceeded *as not speedily altered, far greater
and more alarming dangers would soon ensue. These
important considerations induced him to take a re-
: View of the whole situation of the country, not only
as it regarded our various foreign interests and rein.
ti,ons, but" our domestic tranquillity and safety ; and
to endeavour* to shew to their Lordships, the absolute
necessity of offering their advice to his Majesty, on
the 'present alarming exigency of the public affairs.
it would be thought, doubtless, most presumptuous
in him to oppose his individual opinion to the com-
bined judgments of their Lordships ; and if he saw
nothing in our situation to excite an apprehensiOn of
immediate evil—if he were fully persuaded, that
their Lordships thought, and seriously believed, the
composition of the present Administration suitable to
the nature of the present times—that it discovered no
signs of deficiency in the wisdom and energy that
were so imperiously required—if lie had a deliberate
conviction of this, he should, on that day, abstain
from importuning the House. But he could not pre-
vail upon himself to believe, that such was the state
of their opinions-'or feelings. It would ill become
him, and it would be inconsistent with the respecthe
owed to the House, were he to suppose that their
ssLordships' votes were not given on a conviction that
they were discharging their duty to the public in the
most conscientious manner. ..He could easily con-
ceive, that seeingithe perilous nature of the times, and
the state of hostilities, many were fearful of em.
barrassing the Executive ;government ; and, even
supported the passing of measures, or refrained from
the censuring of past transactions, which were not, in
their cool judgment, unobjectionable. Else, how
could he account for that support given in that
House to the measures of Ministers, when, out of
that House, he could not find an individual who ap-
proved of their conduct and their fitness for the ma-
nagement of the public affairs ? Certainly, be could
not out of it find any body of the people, of such
opinion. Under these impressions, he had ventured
to call their Lordships attention to the causes of this
alarming state of, the country, and to the nature of
the policy that had been pursued. In this task, he
acted rather from the strength of his feelings, than
from any confidence in his own powers. As he ap-
proached to the performance of it, his diffidence in-
creased, from the great importance of the subject it-
self, and also from the absence of his Noble Friend
(Lord Grenville) whose continued indisposition he
lamented ; and to whose judgment and experience,
abilities, eloquence, and authority, he had looked to
supply his deficiencies. But he felt a consolation in
stating, that he was fortified in his own opinion by
knowing the sentiments of his Noble Friend ;—and
that the principles and objects of the measure lie
should propose, had received his approbation. In
proceeding to these considerations, so vitally impor-
tant to the country, the first of our difficulties that
struck him, was our immense expendituie : an expen-
diture which, in the course of 18 years, had progres-
sively accumulated from 16 millions to no less than
85 millions--which had also become so difficult, so
disagreeable, and so unpleasant in the mode of its
collection. After 17 or 18 years of war and heavy
taxation, without an interval, except the short feverish
pause that occurred after the peace of Amiens, and
which could hardly merit the name of peace, there
could be no doubt that the country stood in need of
some repose : but we were now in a situation in
which, perhaps, the blessing of peace could not be
gained ; in which it was extremely doubtful, whether
an attempt to negotiate a peace would be successful;
in which, if the work of peace were accomplished, it
was barely possible to- obtain it accomplished by
such securities, and such means and prospects of
a tfety, as could alone constitute the true nature and
character of a peace. If he saw any good reftsons for
supposing an indisposition in Ministers to obtain
peace, nobody would be more forward than he to
urge them to negociation, and to call their Lord-
ships' minds to the subject ; but he lamented, that he
doubtedewhether, at the present period, any proposi-
tion of that nature would produce any other effect
than to induce the enemy to ascribe it to our fears and
our weakness. Not entertaining such suspicion of Mi-
nisters, he yet thought that the errors of their con-
duct had materially contributed to postpone the pe-
riod of peace. It was his wish, on this great subject,
to avoid all language that created irritation, and ex-
cite or continue personal animosities, which only
tended to embitter and to prolong the miseries of
war. It was impossible for him, bred and educated
as he was, in the system of social order and morals
existing in this free country, to avoid altogether the
terms that must be applied, in many cases, to the
conduct of that extraordinary man who ruled over
France, he might say, over Europe : yet there were
such remarkable circumstances attending his astonish-
ing career, which threw over it a prodigious splen-
dour ; and in military glory, at least, made it un-
equalled, perhaps, in the history of the world. But
though he could not subscribe to his merits, at the
e.zpence of his own moral feelings, yet he was not
diposed to go so far, on the other hand, as to say
that which should promote upnecessarily the spirit of
enmity and war. When we came with the eyes of
Statesmen to look at this subject, we must take into
,our serious consideration the characters of those who
govern ; and we could not deny, that triumphing as
4;kur enemy did over prostrate Europe, and resisted
As he'was by the efforts of this country alone, his great
remaining object must be to overcome and destroy
asst 7,;0 this-end, he must be prompted by the dis-
sppoimiusents he bad already experieased in such. a

. ,
hope, and by his unlimited and grasping ambition. yet utirepealed > Nay, had not Ministers teen corn-
This would, assuredly, be the grand aimof all hist I pelliPhy,tarcunntances to connive at the violation of
foreign policy, whether iii war, or during peace; for their owilorders ? As for America, they knew; that
peace itself;would be, with him, only a period of trade, in war, must be carried on by neutrals. But
preparation for more effectually accomplishing his what had been done? That trade had been carried oin
object. (Hear, hear, hear.) It would be folly and under other flags, European flags, in a state of subset--
Infatuation in this country to act on any other con- eiency to the French Government.' Ldhlting at the
viction, or with any other prospect. (Hear ) For political policy of Bonaparte, his measures, in this
peace, substantial peace, no voice should be raised 1 respect, seemed the effect of deep-laid design. The
higher than his own. He knew it might be said, II only question between us and America was a comfier-
that under the old Government of the French Mo- I cial- one of profit and loss—the effect was, that a nur-
_nimbi; similar views were entertained, and acted I scry was forming for seamen for Bonaparte's project-1
upon ; and that what he had said had a tendepcy to est fleets. Perhaps the House was not aware to what I
'promote perpetual war ; and he admitted that, in extent matters had been carried. From papers on the
the reign .of Lbuis X[V. this was clearly the case : table it appeared, that in 1807 there were in that
but how many circumstances were therein the Chang- trade 42,000 British seamen, and of Foreign Euro-
ed relative condition of the two countries, and of Eu- ; pean seamen 46,000. In 1809, British 'seamen
i •
rope, within these late years, to he viewed and esti- ! 19,600 ; and Foreign European 43,000. We then
mated ? How very different was the energy and vi- l adopted the plan of extending licences,which, in 180 ti
gour of France become ? and what a prodigious in- ! amounted to MO, and the last year to 15,000, by
crease of territory and power had she acquired ? which we had an extension of trade, which made the
i All,except with us, shehad enheppily accomplished, of number of British seamen so employed 34,000;. and
her former schemes of dominion l The independence of Foreign Europeans, 58,000=50 that we had di-
-lof Europe was gone ! The balance of power was ' minished the number on the whole of our own sea-
ldestroyed ! The military greatness of Prussia was men so employed, and encreased that of the foreign-
annihilated! that of Russia and Austria were over- ers, who were occupied in navigating the seas of
come ! The Government of France, situated the Europe, and on our own coasts. What could be a
best of all continental Countries for the purpose of stronger proof of our fatal imeelicy ? Consider its
loffensive war, possessed the whole of Germany and possible effects upon our naval superiority. Our pre-
iltaly ; and the resources of all those m.tritime powers sent increase was carried on by licences granted by
who, in former times, had even disputed with our-. Government, a system totally inconsistent with the
selves, the empire of the seas! Before peace arrived, spirit of a tree commerce, and irreconcileable to our
lie feared too, that the Peninsula of Sp sin and For- free Constitution : for what, in a commercial country
tugal would :)e added to, its resources and means of like this, could be more dangerous to our Constitu-
I attacking this kingdom. When we reflected on all tion than this power, in the hands of Government, to
these great changes, we must find, that to ourselves withhold or to promote, commercial speculation ? He
alone we must look for security—that we must make might be told that nothing improper of this sort had
.war so as not to fear a failure in resources ; so that been ddne—but, seeing its possible ruinous effects, it
no reliance must he made on the faith of a future deserved their full considerations in a commercial
treaty, no dependence for repoee even on the state of and constitutional point of view. - Having stated our
vassalage to which others have submitted. How in- impolitic and wasteful conduct in the management cf
Icumbent, therefore, upon us, to husband our means the. wee—having pointed•oat our errors in our tran-
; against the approach of the most formidable danger sactiofie with neutrals, and in our commercial system
that the country had ever known 1 - This led him • —when he came to review our domestic policy, be
Ito the policy we ought to pursue, and which he could see no ground for praise. In this branch of the
Ideeply lamented had not been pursued. ' It was the subject; it was natural 'to look first at the means
policy of that last Ministry, so much reviled ; but adopted for providing for this enormous expenditure,
I who, in one year of office, found the greatest charge in the course of the last three improvident years, in
against them, that they had not been able to reclaim which they had exceeded what was the wish of the
the country from all the difficulties in which they last administration, in the extent of expenditure by
found it involved. The moment their ministry etas- . eight or ten millions. On this -point he should-
ed, the reign of vigour, as it was called, commenced; avoid details, as it had formed the sußject of much
and the nation were now tasting its fruits. The No-. observation and censure in a recent debate, in which
i
ble Lord had said (Liverpool), that we were not to , its imeolicy was amply shown. Ministers had the
consider one system as economic, and the other as expenditure they had create le, only• by temporary
extravagant ; but each of them, with a reference to expedients—they had taken the funds available for
the actual state of the country. He agreed with him; the purposes of the- war, to discharge the interest
and referring to the state of the country and of Eu- of their loans. This was an enormous depar-
, rope, and looking at our various unwise, expensive, ' tore from the system adepted e -ad persevered in with
I ill-managed expeditions, deficient in every thing—the; so much difficulty, of raising :exec within the year to
I histories of which are written in tears and blood, to ; defray the annual expences, and of reducing, as much
the dishonour of our country—he found his own !as possible, the amount {)f loans. His Lordship then
!opinions fully confirmed. He should not enter into reviewed the financial policy up to the present time,
the particulars of those expeditions ; but, referring ' when the charge was 4121,580,000,- aTI3 the provision
to the speech of a Noble Marquis (Wellesley) the only £1,110,000 ; and £570,000 remained charge.
other night, he declared, that no man had felt more able on the conselidited fund i o defray the expellees
Ithan lie, what the Noble Lord had described ; no : of the last two years ; :t principle, if it could be s:-)
man's hopes were more alive in the beginning of the , called, never acted upon since the year 17ae, %teen
• Spanish struggle : but that Noble Lord, in his splen- ! the sinking fond was established. The Noble En-1
did declaration, seemed to think it enough to shew , then made various other statements tending to prove
that the cause of Spain was just. It was not enough,, the improvidence of the measuees of Ministers in the
that the invasion was unjust, perfidious, and cruel, i management of the public finances ; and intreated
and that it made every English heart burn with a , their Lordships to look seriously into the consequelices
holy zeal against the oppressor : they must shew a' of their wasteful expedients. He begged them to
probability of success, before they hazarded the re- I consider what they would have to provide for in the
sources and the lives of the country in such a contest. I year of a peace establishment. Could they look, un-
Those deeds, which might shed, on generous charac.; der present circumstances, at a peace, without a pros-
ters, the most glorious -lustre, must be regulated, in ; pect of seven or £8,000,000 of additional permanent
such cases, by the use of sound discretion. Magna-Itaxes ? Let their Lordships reflect, and give Minis-
; nimity and generosity were proud national features; tors some check upon their proceedings ; and make
but nations could not be chivelrous and romantic. them take a systematic view, ia order to form some
Individuals mighty and posterity would allow their , permanent system for peace or war. In their immense'
claims to immortal glory. Nations, before they en- ' expenditure, in their ruinous expedients, they made
gaged in daring enterprizes, must see the means of, no provision for the future difficulties that threatened
making them effectually ; they must weigh the po- them. There was another subject connected with
licy and the probability of rational hopes of success. (this. He recollected being one of the Committee
This was their only mode ; and applying the princi- j appointed by the House of Commons on the occasion
, pies to Spain, he lamented our conduct. Though no :of the stoppage of the Bank ; or, as it was termed,'
!man would more sincerely help the execution of such i the restriction on the Bank from paying in cash. He
attempts ; yet, as he had before contended, previous , certainly differed from most of the Committee at that
to his sendihg an army, he should have felt it neces- :, time, as he thought the Bank ought to go to almost
sary to know that therevras a government to support any extreme, rather than they should have recourse
it, a public disposition to encourage it, and the means to so novel a measure. In submitting some resnlii.
of its supply provided. In the want of these, the ' tions on that point, he had argued at large on the
conduct of out Government was absolutely unjusti- ; danger that might arise from a depreciation of the
fiable. Such risks ought not to have been again in-; Paper circulation. To have spoken then of the re-
curred, and another army sent, without complete se- • striction lasting there years, would havebeen thought
curity : yet it was sent, another risk was run, and ! absurd ; but it had actually lasted thirteen years ; are
another series of losses followed. These were his Ministete pad not yet taken such a view of the case,
grounds of objection to the conduct of Ministers, who as to be ready to propose any arrangement on the
indulged their feelings at the risk of our safety, in i subject. He did not hesitate to say that they ought
schemes so expensive, so disastrous in bloodshed, and i now to look to the best means of bringing back the
productive of no advantages to the country ;in con- Bank to its proper system. In our domestic concerns
tradiction to the husbanding and preserving system. I there was a subject of peculiar interest and import-
Had they made the power of tke French Govern- ante; lie meant the situation of the Catholics. The
ment less than when they began ? No ! that power ; measures proposed with respect to that numerous
was greatly encreased, and our own was diminished! . portion of the people, were founded on the absolute
Leaving the further pursuit of the conduct of the war, I and evident necessity of strengthenier. the country
I his next point was our policy towards the few powers against the meditated attack of the enemy. by unit-
unconnected by alliance with France. He should not eng in its defence the hands and the hearts of all clas-
dwell on the history of our fatal attack upon Den- i ses and descriptions of the people of the United King-
mark, by which we forfeited our character of na- ; dom. A Noble Marquis, the other night ( Wellesley )
tional justice, which, especially in the present times, ! had dwelt on the danger that would threaten; this
was a great evil, and created in Denmark a more I country if the ports of Portugal and Spain fell into
formidable erteepy than she would ever have become! the enemy's hands ; and the facilities they would af-
by any unwillin acquiescence in the dictation of I ford to his designs of invasion. Attend to this before
France.—(Hear.) Sicily was a connection of consi. ! it be too late ; and provide for the country, that best
derable delicacy to speak upon ; but, from all he ' security, that cheap defence, that strong and impreg.
knew, our policy there was not such as affairs required. I nable resistance, which could alone be found in the
It was impossible to go into that subject ; but, with-1 union of the interests and affections of all. He hoped,
out a change of system, notwitiestanding our assts. ; notwithstanding tise recent decision, that this great
tance by land and by sea, he was apprehensive of its question would yet be taken up. He was tar from
falling under French dominion. But he must parti- thinking, after 600 years of mismanagement and
cularly call their attention to the re-establishment ofi misgovernment in Ireland, that by one act of Parlia-
the relations of commerce and amity with another, I ment we could remove all discontent. He had no
and the only neutral power remaining, he meant I such hope. But what was called Catholic Emanci-
America. He could not enter at large into a subject I pation, was the first and necessary step ; it was the
that had occupied the debates of nearly a Session. I point to set out from, and from which we might pro.
He and others then declared, the system of Ministers I teed with renovated hope, and with recruited strength.
to be injurious ; they had been since told that the trade Thus, instead of being, with respect to that country,
of this country had not suffered, as they predicted. in a state of apprehension and alarm, we should be
Th it system could be justified, only either as it would i there, in point of defence, most secure, and find
force France to repeal her decrees, or to prevent 1 there the most effectual means of supporting war in
Amen'ta from running away with our trade. It had other quarters.
been already argued, that in the first view it failed, Widely different from a course of true wisdom and
not having Trochiceid =0 a repeal. Were theysuu policy as the conduct of Ministers was, respecting the

orerations of war:and the external difficulties that.
a
y
experienced, they were still more so, in adopting -
timely reforms in our domestic expenditure, ar tit
)
the defects that existed in the practice of the en gn'
tution ; in which lett respect lie was eLeienion, that
much might be done by the abolitineof vasiees flea
less of ides. In all the great branches of our exp•er
ture, considerable savings epight be made, whet, et':
public in wouldconveniencwould not result. H 'h
e 111111, ow.
(Mf'lliiheCh
ever, ready to discourage the belief, that Rent these
particular resource/6 great reductions could take place
—but lie was fully convinced of they. .y. and Ise:.
cessity that whatever retrenchments m that way
people, by etying, that if any such fund
coide
be made, ought to be made. Still he wished to stite
and destroyed, the amoiatnntd
his opinion on this subject feirly. He, for one, mile
nuo.etretl,astlt‘evrpttl fe
away
whole would he a very considereLlt• relief. He %%N ed
Imo tardier, and admit the 'whey and rt • • '. f
scessey o 5t41.1
else:ludo!.
1 such fund existing, at the disposal of theCrovne for the
I rewarding of meritorious public services ;
fund could only propetly exist at the Crown's:,
What he wets daily in the habit of beat ing on this sub.
ject, made him particularly desirous of speeki•et cut
plainly. Could it possibly be good o.:onomy
all from the necessary businsi.s of the state, • Set pa,
sans of large and independent private forttines, a.O,
from the nature and habits of mankiad, could notge.
nerally be supposed the best qualified to 511 such situ.
I ations ? He could refer to periods of our greatest
I national prosperity eni glory, and shew that persons,
who, by their talents, had raked them elves Ism ,e,
I mations of comparative obscurity, had held the chief
1. direction of the public affairs : nor had the conutty,
in the best times, ever looked with disapprebee n er
envy at the rewards and successes of such melte.
IWho that viewed the mansions and domains of Burs.
)
i leigh, ever beheld with uripleasing recollections, that
imonument of stational gratitude to that b: e of Mini,.
stets, in the most glorious of reigns ? It never , out&
l be useful cecoeomy to deprive the Clown if oe pesset
of rewarding any but persons of large fortune, et Jess
perate adventurers, who would seek to remueerate
themseives by the misapplication of the public mr ney.
(Hear, htar.) These opinions were fOunded on jiex
principles—the contrary opinions wore toweled, he
thought, neither on cie.onorny,policy, norevcn on com-
mon sense. • But while his Lordship would preserve
such a fund at the disposal of the Crown, it should
be lirni.o.d in its :mount, and regulated in its object ;
• guarded by wholeseme provisions,. and every thine
'that was obnoxieus speedily repaired. This the public
iatet'ests and feelings icquired,; ant, though he was
not disposed to give way to any unreasenebl: clamour,,
yet, under the pressure of bur thens, and with the-sa-
c:it-tees which the 'peOple were called upon to make,
Ire considered it their Lordships' duty to consult their*
ease and their feelings in 'these respects, is well as in
larger and more -importans.'easeings.; and, by such
conduct, to do what was )0 their power to allay
the generally prevailing discontents of the country.
Respecting evils in the practice of the Government,
ihe was not ready to agree with all the theories he
had seen or heard .on that subject ; but he did sesi.
,vutly think, that the influence of Government in vari.
I ons ways, had of tear years-very considerably increased.
}ln a'recent debate in that House on the Reversion
I Bill, •a Noble Viscount had stated, on the authority
of a pamphlet lately published by a Member of the
'other House (Mr. Ruse) that the influence of the
Crown had etot increased. His reflections on consul-
! sing that pamphlet led hint to consider it as contain-
ing much misrepresentation on this question. Was
it possible, with the increase of our expence in a few
I wears from ae16,000,000 to 0fi18.5,000,000, with all
I our immense extended establishments at home, in the
East and \Vest Indies, and our Colonies in every
quirter, with the vast number of persons employ.
ed in the labours of collecting the revenues, and in
every dee Artment of Government, with the immense
additions to our army and navy, was it possible that,
°under all these combined circumstatices, the influence
end patronage must not have increased to a great, to
An unknown amouat ? Such was his opinion on the
subject of influence, which, not only for the sake of
economy and of satisfying public feeling, but also so.
secure the COnstitutiva against the farther increase
of influence, lie thought it necessary for. Parliament
to look at carefully and reduce • and he reeretted
here again that Government h.id taken up no sys-
tem suitable to the times ; and he particularly hid to
Liment that fatal bindness and infautation that had led
Ministers to reject every proposition that was made to
reduce those large, unnecessary, and insulting emolu.
ments of-which they complained. Bur, as if to insult,
disgust and irritate the public mind, reduced already
almost to despair, they gave away places of the de-
scription he alluded to, to those who had no claim cf
public service to entitle ,them ,t 2 such rewards ; of
which there was a recent, instance fresh ih every one's
mind (1-1-ar, /w r) p where no service had been per-
formed, except that sort of service which formed so
inneg.an objection to these places—he meant service
' pm:foi.med in 'Parliament.---(ficar)— Here, as in
`every other point, they continued, by •their errors ad.
I crimes, to shock and irritate the public mind, by a'
conduct totally inconsistent with their duty. Their
Lprdsliips' duty did not stop there. He had spoken
hitherto of economical reforms, and the reduction of
needless places ; but he would not hesitate to say,,tbat
it was his sincere opittinn, that it seas incumbent on
their I.ordships to look into the defects, whicll, by
lapse of time or otherwise, bad impaired the frame,
and corrupted the practice of the Constitution of l'a-
Lament ; and to apply such remedies to the case as
were according to thil principles and object of the
Constitution. He shoeld not have ventured to speak
upon
p reithisvomusatctaerre baenfdordezitiblieeriratiLono.rdsrlit erne°d uat
Lordships,
question which he took tip at an eirly period of his
life, and whi‘h lie then pursued with eager expects-
cso'n c without
great
thins and sanguine hopes. He would not pretend to
lsle
os apyi
nti lot
ialts tthere
awn.edr en
on„,;,t, sacs) ntroe
tiiiiietrmerge,
Jo
ec differences
accompli
epn
i 1 e s
ing such an' object; but now, in his mantra age, he
would say, that he had not seen reason to abandoe
the general cpitticns he hid formerly enteitainea and
avowed on the stiliject. A man must have been pre"
maturely wise, or have derived no benefit from expe-
rience and observation, who, after the lapse of aweirty
years, looks on such a subject, in all respects, In
precisely the same light. lie was likely, thereti•re,
now to consider and estiniate this question more
cautiouslyupn this
t, and soberly,
iermlyp,otrltlaannt
latueasntioena;rle
l,iertirir!t e ,dc
—:
eitatiun to declare, that in his opinion muell I;"

• -
HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE
The LORD CHANCELLOR called the
Lordships to the subject of the Roxburgh Peer
his intention of making some propositions r
morrow.
The Bills on the table went through thel
among which was the Lottery Bill, which wa
Mr. l.usbington, Mr. Stewart, Sir James G
brought up several Bills from the Commons—
the Dublin improvement, Lord Orntond's 1
and the tit. George's Parish improvement Bill
The House then proceeded to the Ordtr
Grey's motion for an Address to the King, of
THE STATE OF THE NAT.
EatIGREY then rose, and comme
that the more he considered the va
and dangers which threatened the cc
he was also convinced that the errone
the King's Ministers tended •daily ti
%. difficulties' and those dangers ; and
\and serious apprehension, that if the i
they proceeded *as not speedily alt
and more alarming dangers would so
important considerations induced hi
: view of the whole situation of the ci.
as it regarded our various foreign in
teens, but" our domestic tranquillity a
to endeavour* to spew to their Lordsl
necessity of offering their advice to
the 'present alarming exigency of ti:
it would be thought, doubtless, ma
in him to- oppose his individual opii
bined judgments of their Lordship
nothing in our situation to excite an
immediate evil—if
their Lordships thought, and seriou
composition of the present Administ
the nature of the present times—that
signs of deficiency in the wisdom
were so imperiously required—if lie
conviction of this, he should, on t
from importuning the House. But
-rail upon himself to believe, that su
of their opinions-^or feelings. It i
him, and it would be inconsistent wi
owed to the House, were he to su
esLordships' votes were not given on
they were discharging their duty to
most conscientious manner. ,He I
ceive, that seeing/the perilous nature
the state of hostilities, many wee
barrassing the Executive Povernn
supported the passing of measures,
the censuring of past transactions, w
their cool judgment, unobjectiona
could he account for that suppo
House to the measures of Ministei
that House, he could not find an in
proved of their conduct and their fi
nagement of the public affairs ? Cr
• not out of it find any body of the
opinion. Under these impressions,
to call their Lordships attention to t
...a.1a....rm...i..i:ig... st.a.t.e..of, the. country,.
and
.
the policy that had been pursued.
acted rather from the strength of l
from any confidence in his own poi
proached to the performance of it.,
creased, from the great importance
self, and also front the absence of 1
(Lord Grenville) whose continued
lamented ; and to whose judgment
abilities, eloquence, and authority,
supply his deficiencies. But he fel
stating, that he was fortified in hi
knowing the sentiments of his Not
that the principles and objects of
should propose, had received his
proceeding to these considerations,
PaNt to the country, the first of of
struck him, was our immense expen
diture which, in the course of 18 yt
sively accumulated from 16 millioi
85 millions—which had also becon
disagreeable, and so unpleasant in
collection. After 17 or 18 years c
taxation, without an interval, except
pause that occurred after the peace
which could hardly merit the nam
could be no doubt that the countr3
some repose : but we were now
which, perhaps, the blessing of pe
gained ; in which it was extremely
an attempt to negotiate a peace we
in which, if the work of peace were
was barely possible to- obtain it
such securities, and such means
a tfety, as could alone constitute the
character of a peace. If he saw an]
supposing an indisposition in Mi
peace, nobody would be more for
urge them to negotiation, and to
ships' minds to the subject ; but he
doubted/whether, at the present pe
tion of that nature would produc
than to induce the enemy to ascribe
our weakness. Not entertaining sue'
nisters, he yet thought that the CT
duct had materially contributed tc
riod of peace. It was his wish, on i
to avoid all language that created
cite or continue personal animos
tended to embitter and to proton
war. It was impossible for him, l
as he was, in the system of social
existing in this free country, to ave
terms that must be applied, in mi
conduct of that extraordinary man
France, he might say, over Europ
such remarkable circumstances attei
ing career, which threw over it a
dour ; and in military glory, at 1
equalled, perhaps, in the history a
though he could not subscribe to ,
expence of his own moral feelings
disposed to go so far, on the oche
that which should promote unneces
enmity and war. When we cam
Statesmen to look at this subject, i
,our serious consideration the charai
govern ; and we could not deny, ti
4;our enemy did over prostrate Euz
tss be'was by the efforts of this count
remaining object must be to °were
itestero this-end, he must be pros
4,ppoiautteats he bad already eipe
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