Star.
London, England, 1819-06-16 00:00:00

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PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

110VSE OF LORDS, JUNE IS.

'The Cash Payments' Bill and On: Scots Ber' Reform Bills
were brought up from the Vommons by Mr. BeAoarx and Mr.
Deserts lhats., isitie -
The Earl of DARN LEY begged leave to address a few or at
to the House, on a subject which he deemed of the greate-t pos-
sible importance; not so meth to the hope that what he should
say could carry sufficient weight, as with a vlew to direct their
Lordships' atzention to the subject, and
than
in order
that some Noble Lord, more competent than himself to do it
justice, maybe induced to tome forward. tie had frequently,
from time to time, felt occasion to call the attention of the
House to the situation and circumstances of Ireland. In the
present instance, as he found from the Votes of the other House
of Parliament, that among the proposed new Taxes, it was in-
tended not to extend the Duties on Spirits, but to extend those
on. Malt to Ireland : from the observations he had mode in that
country, a country unfortunate in some respects, because with
all the advantages she derived from Nature, she was diverted of
alt opportunity of enjoying many of these ; and if any one cause
operated more than another to solamentablc a results he thought
the great preference given to Spirituous over Malt Liquors, may
be considered as that cause. Every thing possible; on the con-
trary, ought to be done to encourage the consumption of Beer.
Or. this ground he had to entreat the Noble Lords, whose can.;
dour on all occasions he was aware of, seriously to consider the
point before they carried These Duties in that country any fur-
ther ; while at the fame time he suggested the propriety of their
discouraging the great consumption of Spirituous Liquors in
that country. He was strongly impressed with these considera-
tions, and therefore took this early opportunity of calling the
serious attention of the Noble Lords to the subject.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL, after moving the first reading
of the Bank Restriction Bill, stated, that if the prints should be
or the table, he should move the second reading of the Bill
on Friday.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE gave notice of hisintention
to move the second reading of the Madhouses' Regulation Bill
on the same day.
The Noble Marquis then gave notice, that he meant to-mor-
row to lay upon the table a Bill fur the purpose of indemnifying
witnesses produced as evidences, with reference to a Bill then
in progress before their Lordships, from the consequences of
any testimony given-by them. Ile stated his intention now, as
the witnesses were summoned to attend to-morrow.
The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the House
would have to proceed in hearing causes to-morrow.
PROPOSED QUESTIONS RESPECTING THE CURRENCY.
The Order upon which their Lordships were sum-
moned being read—
The Earl of LAUDERDALE rose to bring for-
ward his noticed motion for the above object. After
several Acts, chiefly of the present reign, relating to
the Coin and Currency of the Realm, were read by
his Lordship's desire, the Noble Earl proceeded to
observe, that on a former occasion it had been argu-
ed, that as the Silver Coin had been for a long time
lowered 2.5 per cent. in its actual value, and that the
Silver Coin so depreciated had not the effect of ex-
.pelling the Gold Coin at the time, so it was clear
that the Mint Regulations could not have such an
effect at present. In the interval between 1774 and
1797, the time on which the argument was founded,
he thought that their Silver Coin so depreciated could
not be a proper legal tender ; and as it was thought
proper to press forward the Bill now before their
Lordships on the subject, he was of opinion their
Lordships should learn from the best authority,
namely, the Judges, how the law actually stood at
the time. It could be no objection to urge that the.
coin adverted to circulated freely, as law and suffer-
ence were two very different considerations. The
Noble Lord opposite was well aware of the immense
amount' of the coinages in the present reign ; and
notwithstanding these immense issues, it was known.
though the exchanges were generally in our favour,
that the gold had vanished. He thought it therefore
of material importance, that the questions he had re-
ferred should be put to the Judges for their opinions ;
and among other points, as to the law whether or
not the Silver Coin, though depreciated, by tale, un-
der 25 per cent. was a reallegal tender ? and a part
of one of the questions he had so framed. The law,
as it stood relative to the subject previous to the year
1774, declared that such was not a legal tender.—
The Noble Earl then referred to the effect and ope-
ration of several of the Acts upon the subject, and
argued, that those considerations all tended to shew
the necessity of their being duly informed as to the
actual meaning and state of the law- upon this im-
portant subject. The first question he should have to
propose would go principally to resolve the point,
whether the Silver Coin was or was not a legal ten-
derby tale,' though depreciated, or lost in its value,
at least 12 per cent.? With respect to Silver also,
he observed, that every nation but this made it the
legal standard of value ; but the Act of the 56th of
his Majesty made a most material difference between
the intrinsic or relative value of the Gold and Silver
Coin of the Realm. And it became an important
question, whether, under the Proclamation issued at
the time, the depreciated Silver Coin, out of which a
high seignorage was taken, was raised to such an
eqttality with the Gold Coin, or whether the Gold
Coin by such an equality, was so diminished in its
value, as to be on a comparative level with the Sil-
ver Coin? The raising or diminution of ,value must
act reciprocally with respect to either description of
coin, and. the solution of his intended questions was
the more necessary, as by the 56th of the King, no
more than 9,0 lawful shillings could be legally taken
for the Sovereign. Ile was anxious that the truth
with respect to the actual state and effect of the law
sheiuld.be ascertained in those respects• before their
.12frdships should decide as to the important measure,
just come before them, and in such view he had
framed questions to the effect he had stated ; and for
the purpose of submitting those to the highest legal
authority, ,he moved that the Learned Judges be
ordered to attend the service of the House on Tues-

day next.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose, and admitted the
great importance of the subject in question, but then
-on the other hand he thought their Lordships should
'consider before they sanctioned such a motion, the
extent and multiplicity of business which these sages
of the law had to dispose of, not only with respect
to the criminal justice of. the country, but with re-
ference to the whole administration of the law gene-
rally. Therefore without a very sufficient case being
made out (which he thought the Noble Lord had by
no means established), the opinion of the Learned
Judges should not, in his mind, be called for. Ano-
ther objection was, be did not think the answers
would at all facilitate their Lordshipss• decision upon
the subject. The molt ample inquiries and discus-
sions had already taken place upon these several
points, and he really thought there was scarcely one
practical, or man of business in the country, who en-
tertained a doubt that for every practical or useful
purpose, that the gold coin was intended, under the
present law of the country, to be the real measure of

value or property. He was of opinion, that whatever
changes in weight or actual value might have taken
place in these respective descriptions at coins, it made
no different in the present question. And notwith-
standing the depreciation which had taken place in
the silver coin, if it qccurred from wear, it was, while
in circulation, a legal bender to the amount of £2.5
per cent. The Noble Lord opposite argued many
points in the subject, as if they had never been dis-
cussed or decided upon at all, and many of his other
arguments bore not in the least upon the present
question. No man could deny that the proportions
of gold and silver in the country must vary, accor-
ding to the fluctuation of circumstances; but this
could certainly form no ground why gold should not
be taken as the legal standard of value, and of which
silver was only the aliquot part when used in circu-
lation.. It. was a coin provided for the convenience
principally of retail transactions, and had no more
to do with representing the property of the country
than iron, or any other metal. Gold was the real
measure of value, and silver a legal tender only to a '!
certain amQunt. The time for bringing forward this
question he could not but regard as extraordinarily'
chosen. The price of gold had greatly fallen since
the important discussions upon the general subject
were entered upon, and that metal, .which not long '
since was at 41.35. the ounce, the Noble Lord could '
now get as much of as he chose for 3/. 19s.—so far'
was the prediction from true, that gold by the recent
measures would be driven out of the country. There
was little doubt that the real fact was, that the state
of the exchanges, while they continued against us,
was the principal cause •of the gold being exported.
So, when those turned in our favour, the precious
metals flowed into the country. He repeated his
opinion, that the information proposed to be called
for would be attended with no practical advantage,
nor in the least facilitate their decision upon the im-
portant measure which would soon come under their
Lordships' consideration. He should therefore cer-
tainly give the motion his negative.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE spoke shortly inex-
planation ; after which the question was put, and de-
cided in the negative.—Adjourned till to-morrow.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Sir G. HILL presented, pursuant to an order of the House,
certain papers relating to the regulation of the collection of du-
ties.—Ordered to lie on the table.
The report of the Loan Bill was taken into further considera-
tion, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND brought up the
report of the Scotch Criminals' Banishment Bill, which was
agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.
Mr. Serjeant ONSLOW gave notice, that on the irssi inst. he
would move for leave to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the
Acts relating to the admission of Attorneys into the Courts
of Law.
Colonel DAVIES moved for returns sheering the distribution
of troops in Great Britain and Ireland, and in the islands in the
Channel, distinguishing cavalry, artillery, and troops of the line ;
and also skewing the effective strength of the Officers, Non-
commissioned Officers, and Privates.—Ordered.
The Fisheries Preservation Bill was read a s:cond time, and
ordered to be committed on Monday.
On the motion of Mr. Alderman WOOD, the Committee on
the Irish Partnerships' Bill was postponed till that day six months.
Mr. SHAW presented a Petition from the Merchants and
Tradeis of Dublin against the Foreign Enlistment Bill.—Ordered

to lie on the table. - 1
Mr. W. COURTNEY obtained leave to bring in a Bill to
amend the Law as to suffering recoveries of Land held in an-,
tient demesne, and with regard to Sales and Leases of such
LAnds belonging to lunatics.
Sir J. MONTGOMERY postponed his motton for Papers
relative to Mr. Pritchard's Petition complaining of acts of op-
pression committed in British America, Red River Settlement,
till that day se'nnight.
The Lottery Bill went through a Committee, the Report of
which was ordered to be received to-morrow.

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