Star.
London, England, 1819-03-02 00:00:00

read, considerable difference of opinion appeared to
prevail in the House. The SPITAKER repeatedly or-
dered strangers to withdraw, and at length the gal-
lery was cleared for a division ; but no division took
place. All the defaulters were ordered to attend the
ballot, either on Thursday next, or on Tuesday or
Thursday se'nnight. •
Mr. W. SMII,II said,. that he held inhis hand a
Petition from the Corporation of Norwich, praying
for an amelioration of the law, and a mitigation of,
the punishment of forgery.—Laid on the table.
The Report of the Committee on Irish Recogni-
zances was brought up and read. It stated, that re-1
cognizances had been entered into, and die orders of
the House complied with, in all the cases except th:q
of the town and county of Galway, in which case the
Committee recommended an extension of the time.
Mr. C. W. WYNN moved, that the petitioners in
the case of the town of Galway be allowed till Thurs-
day se'nnight to complete their recognizances.—
Ordered.

COVERNItIENT CONTRACTS FOR STORM,
Mr. Alderman WOOD said, that he bad moved
some weeks ago for an account of a gorge contract
for stones, entered into by the Nav y Board. Ile had
had no intention to reflect upon the Board. He had
only stated, that stones were brought to Dactrnoor
at 4s. Ild. per foot, which, if convicts had been em-
ployed, might have been obtained at 2s. per foot ; and
thus a saving of £lOO,OOO would have been effected
for the public. The whole had been conducted under
the direction of Mr. Rennie, the Surveyor, who, he
understood, always recommended Aberdeen stones—,
• The SPEAKER called Mr. Wood to order. He
had understood that his intention was merely to cor-
rect a former statement : if he meant to move, and
to enter into discussion on his motion, it must be ob-
vious that he could not take precedence of other mo-
tions fixed for that day—Vicar, hear).
Lord CASTLEREAGH remarkeJ, that it might
perhaps answer the purpose if the Worthy Alderman
would give notice for to-morrow.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said he moved only for ac-
counts, to the production of which there could be no
objection. He moved for an account of the contracts
for stones entered into by the Navy Board, from the
Ist of January, 1810, to the Ist of January, 1819,
distinguishing the quality, quantity, and price per
foot, of each kind, and giving the amount of the
whole price.—Ordered.
Sir BYAM MARTIN most willingly agreed to
the motion. If the Worthy Alderman had not brought
the subject before the House, he should have felt it
his duty to institute an inquiry into the conduct of
the Board in the case alluded to : for the Navy Board
should stand well in public estimation, or not stand
at all.

Sir M. W. RIDLEY gave notice, that on Wednes-
day the 10th of March, he would submit a motion
to the House for reducing the number of Lords of the
Admit alty.—The Honourable Baronet afterwards
fixed his motion for Thursday the 11th of March.
Sir M. W. RIDLEY gave notice, that he would to-
morrow move for a Return of the Suricharges, similar
to those moved for by him last year.

Mr. CANNING postponed lus motion of thanks
to the Marquis of Hastings, &c. from to-morrow to
Thursday. This, he observed, was in consequence
of his not having been able to effect an arrangement
with an Honourable and Learned Friend of his (Sir
J. Macintosh), whose motion stood for to-morrow.

PENRYN ELECTION.

Sir C. BURRELL moved the order of the day for
resuming the adjourned debate upon the question of
the Penryii Election.
The SPEAKER said, that before the House pro-
ceeded to the adjourned debate, it might be conve-
nient for them to know in what state of forwardness
the minutesiof evidence were which had been ordered
to be printed on Tuesday. From their length he did
not think they would be ready before Wednesday,
and would not be in the hands of Members before
Thursday. The House would, therefore, see what
time might elapse before the Members were put in
possession of the information which might be neces-
sary on the subject: With respect to the question of
suspending the issuing of writs upon special reports,
he bad before expressed what had occurred to him at
the moment. Since then he had looked into all the
cases since the year 1770, and from these it appeared,
that is all cases where reports were made, charging
bribery and corruption upon a nurtsber of Electors,
the issuing of the writ was suspended until the House
had before them the minutes of evidence taken before
the Committee. In one case, a report was made
charging bribery and corruption; but as no special
complaint was made, the issue of the writ was not
delayed, but the Attorney-General was ordered to
prosecute the offenders.
Sir C. BURRELL was of opinion that it would
be more convenient if the House did not proceed with
the consideration of the question until the minutes of
evidence were before them.—(Hear, hear). He was
the more anxious for this, as he had heard a report
that the evidence of one witness was objected to be-
fore the Committee ; and so nicely balanced were the,
votes, that the evidence was only rejected by the cast-
ing vote of the Chairman. In order to shew the spirit
which prevailed in this Borough, he would beg to
have the report of a Committee which had sat in
1807, to examine the allegations of a petition against
the return which had then.been made for it.
The Clerk then read the Report of the Committee.
It was dated February 4th,1807, and stated that Sir
C. Hawkins, the Sitting Member, was unduly elected,
and that Henry Swarm, Esq. (the petitioner) was one
of the Sitting Members, and that John Trevanion,
Esq. ought to have been returned as the other Mem-
ber. The Committee also passed a resolution that Sir
C. Hawkins had been guilty of bribery, and that seve-
ral Electors of the Borough had been pPoved to have
accepted bribes. ,

Sri- C. BURRELL said, that after what the House
had heard of the base and mercenary spirit which
prevailed in that Borough, they should see the ne-
cessity of not proceeding with the discussion until
they should have the minutes of evidence fully before
them. He would therefore move, diet the debate be
further adjourned till next Monday.
Mr. XIASTERTON URE.—There were few sub-
jects coming under the consideration of Parliament;
of greater importance than those connected with the
rights of Electors, and the paivileges of the douse;
and he felt desk ous that on the present o,i9sion they
should ao conduct the proceedings as •to hew to
the people of England,- that if there were min?

1 persons who thought the elective franchi'e should 1*
moor extended, and others of a contrary opinion,
that they would take care that those who had the
elective franchise should exercise it fairly, freely, and
'constitutionally. And bete it was important to ob-
serve, that by acceding to the Honourable Baronet's
motion, the House would enable those who had
proved themselves so unworthy of being Electors to
repeat those acts of corruption so disgraceful to
themselves and injut ions to the Public ; while by
postponing the writ it would be liable to the charge.
of depriving the bona fide Electors of Penryn of
their due share in the Iter.nentation of the Empire:'
for it should be ohscrvcd, that those Electors who by
the Resolution of the Committee were found to have
been bribed, would, non% ithstanding that Resolu-
tion, be entitled to vote, till they were convicted in
a 'Court of I.aw, or disqualified by Act of Parlia-
ment. He might here allude to precedents, from
which it would appear that there was no case 'where
the House had delayed to issue a wi it to supply a
vacancy, unles the Report of the Committee was of
a more general nature, and implied more fl.igrant
acts of corruption. Inmost of these cases the Chair-
man of the Committee moved the House to postpone
issuing the writ; whereas in the present case he
moved that it. should he issued. Finding, however,
on the journals of the House, that corruption had
'existed in this Borough on a former occasion, and si-
milar disgraceful practices appearing on the present,
occasion, he would accede to the Ilonourable Baro-
net's motion.
Mr. ATKYNS WRIGHT said, that several who
had appeared before the Committee were proved to
have taken bribes. The House might do as thes
pleased with the question, hut he was not aware that
it was the practice to suspend the issuing of a writ
except where bribery could he proved against a very
large portion of the Electors. The precedent he con-
sidered to be one of a dangerous nature.

Sir JOHN NEWPOItT conceived, that where it
was evident that such bribery existed, and was so
notorious, that neither of the candidates adminis-
tered the bribery oath during the election, the House
ought *not to have the writ issued until they had the
whole of the evidence taken by the Committee before
theni. If this caused a delay, it could be considered
only as a very small punishment to those who had
made so bad a use of their votes.

Mr. ATKYNS WRIGHT said, that it did not ap-
pear from the evidence ',Are the Committee, whe-
ther the'bribery oath had been administered or, not.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT replied, that if it did not
appear from the minutes on the poll-book to have
been administered, it was perfectly evident that it
had not.

Mr. C. HARVEY said, that he did not mean to
oppose the motion, as he wished that the minutes of
evidence should be before the House, which he con-
ceived would shew that some of the charges had
been made without foundation.

Mr. BANKES was desirous that the debate should
be further adjourned, as, to say the least, there was
very strong suspicion that very many of the Electors
were implicated in the charge of bribery.
Mr. DENISON thought there was sufficient evi-
dence to skew the system of gross bribery which had
been practised in this virtuous Borough. One fact
alone would prove it: the Electors were assembled
at a public breakfast, and each of theth received
£24 for his vote—(hear, hear).—With these circum-
stances before them, he trusted the House would ad-
journ the question till Monday.
The Motion for adjourning the debate on the issu-
ing the writ, was then put and carried. The Report
of Committee was also adjourned to the same
day (Monday next.)

PETITION OF MR. TROMAS GRADY. ,
Mr. CHRISTOPHER HUTCHINSON, in rising
to present a Petition from this Gentleman, observed,
that it would not be necessary for him to go over the
same ground which he had gone ori a former occa-
sion when this question was before the House. He
.was the less inclined to this, because he understood
it to be the general feeling of the House that there
would be no opposition to his release. Ills (Mr.
Hutchinson's) wish was to conciliate all parties, and
not to offer any thing which might prejudice the cause
of the Gentleman whose Petition he was about to
present. The Petitioner expressed his sincere sorrow
at having in any manner offended the House. At
the same time he solemnly declared, that he never
had any such intention. He therefore -prayed that
he might be released from custody.
The Petition was then brought up, and read by
the Clerk. It was in substance such as Mr. Hut-
chinson had described it.

Sir ROBERT WILSON hoped the House would
consider the age of the Petitioner and his ill state of
health, and also that some days had elapsed since he
had been committed to prison.—The Petition was or-
dered to lie on the table. After which,
Mr. HUTCHINSON moved, that Mr. Thomas
Grady be forthwith brought to the Bar, for the pur-
pose of being discharged.
Mr. BOOTLE WILBRAHAM did not intend to
oppose the Motion, but he would suggest, that .the
old usage of the House should not be departed from
in the present instance. It was the practice on occa-
sions similar to this to move, that the person in cus-
tody be brought up, not forthwith, but on the fol-
lowing day. Besides, if Mr. Grady were to be
brought to the Bar in the course of the present even-
ing, it would probably interrupt the debate which
was about to commence. He therefore suggested,
that instead of the word " forthwith," in the Motion,
the word to-morrow" should be inserted.
Mr. HUTCHINSON had no objection to alter his
motion as the Honourable Member had suggested.
The motion wus therefore withdrawn, and another
put—" that Mr. Grady should be called to the Bar
to-morrow:

Mr. BANKES suggested, that the latter part of
the motion should run thus—" he called to the ,Bar
of the House, to be reprimanded by 'Air. Speaker,
and then discharFed."
The sit AKLIt. observed, that when Pa person is
custody by .order J the House was called to the liar
in order tole'discharged, it implied tlnit he was to
sr.teprirnaiicied;--(//rar, hear).
sfr.C. W. WYNNsaid, that to prevent auy dcubt
upou the object for which the prisoner was to be
brought up, it might be better to let the Word " re-
, irittisanded" be inserted.. This was dote accordit.gly,
aia .the .moti9u passed unatilutously. •

'fiTATr OP 'VIE PittSC6lS.
Lord CASTLEREA(;H, in rising to c;i11
tention of the House to this importut sul);ect,'
served, that he should endeavour as shortly?
sible to open to theth the nature and C;jest
motion. It would be the less necessary to t,ct
much of their time, as they must !eel that his,
in one of its objects, was so much ‘like that
an Honourable and Learned Gentleman (Sir 411.
intosh) intended to subthit trsmorrow. tietti
he believed, been some misapprehension a, to
s
nature of his motion ; but he hoped that the
would understand, from the, course which he
about to take, that the motion of which the
able and Learned Gentleman had given not:ce ~;
pot be rendered necevary. It would be reccli2e.
that at an early period of the Session, a nocc
been given for him, that in the course of a the-:
he intended to propose an inquiry. into the std
the Prisons of the Country, with which v.ls t,
connected an inquiry int* the great increase el cri
and also-into the state of the Criminal Lr;
Honourable .and Learaed Gentleman (Sir J. YE::
Cosh) could not have understood at the tine, tll4
inquiry was to•refer to the state of the Gaols -
for his Right Honourable Friend had stated,
was to embrace the state of the Criminal La.,
But the objection of the Honourable and L.

Gentleman was, that the inquiry into the c
Law ,hould not be made in an incidental w
should of itself form one subject of ino,u;:.:
trusted, however, the House would see that

tion which he intended to submit would ay.: b,
fined to the state of Gaols alone; hut, oa tx
trary, that it was, the intention of his MaiNy
nisters to take as large a view as possible of tht
_ .

subject ; and he hope d it would• be evidem
there WAS no great difference between his motif
that of the Honourable and Learned Gentlema,
that it would lead to the same satisfactory coati
which he (Sir J. Mackintosh) was anxious to
at. If the que,..tion was only that of inquiry ii
State of the Prisons, their internal arrangement,
the necessary classification of prisoners, he
not have thought it a tit subject for a Corntr.
the House of Commons, because it was a in.

too Ministerial a character, and coming Eddie
official regulation. The view his
the subject was at all events more compreC.
and it was impossible to look at the preient
the Gaols without going at ktrge into the
question. In fact, the very amount of criini
present would of itself defeat the 'acninistrat.

the Gaols ; and in order to arrive at the better

of administering those Gaols, it would be'iirst
portant to consider, whether it was or was nr

Bible to repress and diminish cri:r.e. T!le qi
of Crimes and Punishments was tinav:lidA!..
volved. The real difference between him r
Honourable and Learned Gentleman was

merely as to the scope of the inquiry. He took
Criminal Law as his basis, and his Lordship -
tiered it only as a concomitant. His Lordship's p.
cipal object on, however, was, that the mode sat
gested on the other side would have the effect
creating in the country a prejudice against the Ire
before the matter had been deliberately brought re
der the eye of Parlianient. No investigation of
kind could be instituted without examining the,
priety of diminishing the more sanguitimy L:n
necessity of some ch.uigc in the system of tle Uuh
the advantages of Penitentiaries, the plan (,t-
-sportation, and the course of nianaeemeat in Prisons;
all these branches must be included, and not toente
upon them would be prematurely to pronounce
general sentence of degradation on the Laws of the
Country: people out of doors would hastily conclaile,
that the whole system was unnecessarily harsh. ands
false expectation would- be raised of inipractic7'"
lenity. Even the argument of saving time by
sion of labour, the only one urged against hi s Lorl,hip
motion, would equally apply in his favour; in-
quiry would be commenced and conducted ou :.:
broadest principle ; nothing would be withheld flee
could throw light upon it, and the Honourable
Learned Gentleman would have an opportenity.
giving to •the Committee the most comprehneve
view ho had taken of all the bearings of the quest:tie.
The order of reference would be so worded as In
give the widest range. His Lordship was willing L.)
give all due weight to the opinions and suggesno
of .the lion. Gentleman behind (Mr. Bennet): his
zeal and information were unquestionable; and
his Lordship did not yield to his proposal, he nelsted
it with reluctance, and only because he 152 W that
greater facilities by :molter course would be afforded'
it was nut correct to s:rv, that he (Lord Castitreagei
wished to recommend proceeding as with an inverted
cone, commencing at the smaller extremity: on tae
contrary, he began upon an extended plain, Ile
pointed out clearly the line that ot:bh t to be purstmc•
All the information on previous Reports coma be
laid before this new Committee: its inquiries wee.;
extend to the whole state of the adminiseratez 1
the criminal laws, and more especially to the trir-:'
ment of offeuders before and after convicticn—
Vicar, hear.)—His Lordship deprecated ctreze.!
any travelling out of the road for the purpose 4';'
belling the laws, until it had been distinctly motto'
ed that they merited censure. Separate Conullitte
would in no way promote dispatch, and if division/3
labour were necessary, it could be accompiio:ed
assigning particular duties to particular iadividute
who'se information might subsequently be reduce:
into one common focus. Upon this subject he r;1,
well aware that a strong feeling, mixed perhaps';
some prejudice, prevailed in the country vhe ,
be sorry, indeed, if that strong feeling did not ere,
and if the subject were taken up rationally and calete
a great deal of salutary' Reform might no cioula
accomplished. The muitiplieltion of COnlm.,itt'
could only have the effect of distracting wisov7
elucidating conflicting reports and discordant
many would be produced, and. the mass td inform'
tion weald be inapplicable, because teilatelligible:—
He should have no Objection to add to the nult'.`
of the Committee, which he proposed should ce!I!"
of twenty-otte.members, whenever such an addirc:
might be considered necessary, that the
have the benefit of acting on a lit cut drawn tro.
the follebt sources of information, and by the ;Ye;
men that could be collected. On these grounds !"
trusted the House would net think. the* he wished
impede inquiry by confining it to tine Commis..
only. His only object was to prevent an injuryi be.
done to the L?wi el the cotentq, by passing • ss,l:-

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