Star.
London, England, 1804-07-04 00:00:00

16...,
PaIRLIAMENTARr PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LOADS, TUESDAY, JULY 3.
The Royal Affent by Comm Mon (the Lord Chancellor, Earl
Camden, and Lord Watanikani fitting as Cuninenionernd two
s) WWI
given to the Higlitrod Ronda and Bridge‘the Curn,a
Private Bina
The Bilie 'rpm the table were forwarded In thcir [event Raga.
'Their Lonlildpe then adjourned during pleafure.
After a Own the Houle returne
When the itnervel
Conan' Regulation Bill, and the. BM for more
effeettaßy preventing the Counterfeiting the Silver Coin et the
Rahn, and one private 818, were received front the Cornmeal,
and fevasEy read a Grit time.
CIRCULATION, OP DOLtaae.
Van the Bank Dollar Bill wsa read from the Woolfaek,
Lord GRENVILLE Tore, and Rated that at this
late period of the Siffion, it was not his intention to
provoke a ferious difctilLon of the Bill before their
Lordfhips, as important, in his opinion, as any that
bad lately been fubmitted to their confideration. His
objea in rifing was to make his verbal proteft againft
the principle of the meafure. on the grounds that it
was unconftitutional, impolitic, and pregnant with
what he mull call grofs fraud and deception. It was
objeaionable in a legal view in no left than two
points. He much doubted whether his Mainly could
delegate his privilege of impreffing money to any in.
dividual fubjefl in his dominion, and he Was alfo in-
clined to doubt his Majefty's authority to authorise
any of his fubjeas to illue money fo impreffed. He
would not at prefent go into a full cumin*, ion of thole
two confederations, but receive the difcuffion of them
until neat Sernon, when he Retold think it bis duty
tb bring the fubjea before their Lordships in that ge-
neral and enlarged (hape which the importance of the
great ititerefts it involved fo amply entitled it to.—
ne only part of the queftion on which be would
Gordy trefpafs on their I.(lolips' attention this even I
lag, was that which related to the impolicy of the
meafure. To all thofe who had the faulleft acquaint
atm with the fcieuce of political economy.there was',
no truth more evident than this, that the praaice
which was fotnetimes recurred to by Governments, of
Hieing debated coin, or in ocher words, of coin bear-
ing a higher denomination than it was intrinfically
worth. was one moll injurious and unproduaive in
the experiment ; unproduaive, becaufe it produced
no advantages to the Government; and injurious,
becaufe it was invariably detrimental to the intueb
of the country where it was iffued. The enaftere
which the Bill before their Lordfhipa went to and s°.
vim he molt cmtlider partaking of ell thrift nsifddefa
sad inceaveeheass. What was the profefed abbe
OE k I It win neither store sot Ws than this, to awl
*wise the Bank to make that pars cutest for Ns
which in reality was only worth four GA.
fixpence. or perhaps lets. What would be
re enallequence to the palest who received this de-
loafed onto t why it would operate to his difadvan
sage of a ratio of ten per cent. if be were under the
sturdy of receiving four of thole Dollars, or tokens
as they were called, which were oely worth ilk
payment of a pound Ruling. His Lordfbip confi-
‘ tiered the meatus which the prefent Bill went to
fanaion, as one arifing out of that molt impolitic and
nnjuftifiable Rep, the reftriaion upon the Bank of',
England from making payments in fpecie. Their
Lordfhilis bad a boas proof before themthat it I
was no lefs true in politics than in morals,, one
tea of injuftice invariably led to the commilioa of
ascaber. Had the reariaion upon the Bank sever
takes place, moll probably their Lordfliips maid ass
bays bees allied upon to give their famaion to the maw
beebefore than; which.te his opiniusolna
with impolicy, injueice, and fraud. It wasisrlitet
contemplatica. be underflood, to extend the mifehief
to Ireland, and to make thole tokens pals even for a
greater value there. If the perfons who promoted
this sinecure had been guided by any equitable prin-
ciples of policy in their plan, Rarely they would sot
have fent the greater evil into that pan of the em-
pire which was the molt impoverifbed and the leaf!
Twice. He would fay nothing further on the fubjea
at prefent, but repeat that it was his intention to pro.
pofe a full difeeffion of the general principle of the
anafure in the eourfe of the tatting Sefton.
Lord HAWKESBURY did not think that what
bad fallen from the Noble Baron called upon him to
take up much of their Lordfltips' time. The obfer-
stations which he had thrown out were certainly not
called for by the Rage in which the Bill now before
the Houfe was. Much convenience had refulted to
the public from the iffue of thole Dollars, and he
thought, that while they were allowed to form a
g=dproportiou of our circulating medium, they
be protected by law againft the diflionefty of
thole who might be tempted t count
er o counrfeit them.—
He waked the Noble Bum to bear in mind, that
thole Bank Dollars were not a legal tender, and there
was DO nullity impaled upon any perfon receive
them. It was entirely in the tfifuetion of individuals
to accept them in payment, and he raw not what the
injuftice or fraud was of accommodating the pub-
lic with that from which they had derived much be-
nefit.
Lord GRENVILLE never meant to ground any
part of his arguments spina tae Bill, upon the idea
that it was intended to make theft Bank tokens a le-
gal tender. He never could conceive that any ra-
, tional Government would have given its fare Lion to
fo extraordinary a principle, as that a debated coin
fbould be received in payment at more than its inuin-
tic value.
JUDOS FOX.
gThe Marquis of ABE RCO RN prefented a Petition
aainft the Hon. Jolliet Fox, from Gerard Irwin,
rig. High Sheriff of the county of Fermanagh ; alfo,
a Petition from the Petty Jury of the (aid county, at
the laft autumn utilizes ; and moved that they lie on
the Table, and that a copy of each be fent to Judge
Fox.
The LORD CHANCELLOR, having left the
Woe obierved, that the Petitions
were
le the
io the .6 Lords Spiritual aod Temporal. and the
Commons in Parliament alembled." This was quite
novel, anJ be could not. for his part, content to sr-
ceive Petitions fo informal.
The Marquis of A BERCORN raid, be had, in
compliance with the advice of a Learned and Noble
Lord on a former day, battened to place !heti Peti-
tions on the Table, its order to reduce the charges
agaioft Judge Foe to a precife from. With refpea
to the informality, he had confulted legal and par-
liamentary authority, and was allured that it was not
mateital. A Petiti. it had, in fal, been prefented to
he mbar Rode. addreffed is the fame manner, that

h to both Hoofer, and a pen bad been put through 1
the fuperfluous words. For his part, he would never
alter a word of any Petition fent to him. He had
refolved to keep his hands clean. throughout the
whole traufaition. It was for their Lordlhips to de-
termine, whether they would receive the Petitions,
or tele* them.
The LORD.CHANCELLOR repeated bis objec-
tion to the Petitions.
The Duke of NORFOLK Paid, that forms were
often nearly allied to the fubflanee. He thought
them important in the prefent cafe ; and moved, that
the Petitions be referred to a Committee of Prece-
dents, to enquire if, notwitbßanding the informality,
they could be received.
The Earl of ROSSLYN (aid, the fuperfluous words
were evidently inferted through the ignorance of the
parties; they intended the Petitions to be prefented
to the Houfe of Peers. He Ibould, therefore, have
made o temple of putting a pen thrugh the fuper-
fiuonsn words, as fulfilling the intentioon of the Peti-
tioners.
The Marquis of ABERCORN Paid, it was for the
Houfe to difpofe of the Petitions ; he was no more
concerned in them than any of their Lordfhips he
would,, in no cafe, however, alter a Petition ; and
he only begged their Lord Chips to remember, that
no delay had occurred on his part. He had ufedhis
utmoß diligence to put the matter into that Rate
which teemed to be required of him by the (cafe of
the Houle.
Earl STANHOPE raid, the Noble Marquis had
done well not to alter the Petitions. He could not
agree with the Noble Earl oppofite to him (the Earl
ofßofslyn) ; the Petitions were addreffed to " the
Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and the Commons ;"
the Noble Lord, might, therefore have put the pen
through the Grit part of the addrefs, and prefented
the Petitions to the other Houfe, on the principle of

that advice.
Lord GRENVILLE thought forms. in this cafe.
of the highei importance, Saco there were proceed-
that inightosigioate a criminal primer., in which
the Law and Coal,Wn demand the umon reel-
lion of forms; and this criminal proofs again& a
Judge, one of the mitt important, certainly, that
could be He therefore ropported the mo-
tion for ft the Petitions to a Committee of Pre-
cedents, who Weld be inaroared to report them.
The motion for this was then agreed to.
stain TRAPS tbOLITIOII.
Lord HAWKESBURY having moved the Order
of the Day for the freond reading of the Bill, Paid,
that it was his iaisatiou, purfuunt to the notice he
had given the a former evening, to move, that in-
Read of the word • Dow," the words • this day three
=oaths," amid be inferted. His Lordthip briefly
rompstolated the arguments which he had urged on
the Sr& reading of the Bill, the principal of which
was that the *learnse had bees introduced at too late
a period of the Seffioa to allow any reafonable hope
that it could be pared before the riling of Parliament.
Them were fo many interefts likely to be affeitted by
the abolition, that their Lordthips could not, confir-
m* with that deliberation they bettowed on every
meafure of fimilar importance, give the fubjea that
meafored difcuffion it was to. He would
me take up their Lordthips time atentitled prefent. but move
that it be read a fecond time this day three months.
The Doke of NORFOLK fupported the motion
if the Noble Secretary of State, on the grounds that
the Bill was brought forward at too advanced a pe-
riod of the Sefton. If Government were (aims in
their lineations of abolithing that trade, he withed
they had given Come decided proofs of it, by propo.
fingthe meafure themfelves, and giving to it all the
rapport that official power and lituation placed in
their hands. He did not approve of feting the
weight of Co important a meafure thrown on the
thoolders of an individual Member of the Legate-
tore, however refpetiable he might be. He did not
even with to fee a Bill for Infolvent Debtors, or any
other meafure likely to affett the interefts of a confi-
derable number of perfons, introduced, without the
concurrence or co-operation, of the Government.
Earl STANHOPE could not refrain from expref-
fing his attainmen ha
t at wt hagread feallen from the two
Noble Lords. He could not with them, that
there exifted the leaft neceffity for pofiponing this
meafure, important from Co many confiderations,
until the nest Seffion. He faw nothing to prevent
their Lordthips from coming to an immediate deci-
fion on the quenion. He would not allow men to
come to their Lordfbips' bar, and ant to be permit-
ted to continue in the commiffion of crimes. Suppofe
a fet of men who were in the prallice of forging coin
on the coatis of Denmark or Norway, and that a Bill
were brought in to prevent the introdultion of fuch
forged fpecte, would their Lordibips fuffer fuch a let
of rafcals to come to their bar, and petition either to
be allowed to continue fuch nefarious praftices, or
to obtain an indemnity for the lots of that emolu-
ment which they drew from it ? The Slave Trade was
even worfe than that, infomuch as murder was more
heinous than robbery. What was the Slave Trade? '1
It wasthe going and (citing. or purchafing from thole
who had felted, a parcel of unhappy beings, over
whom neither GOD nor nature gave us any controul.
—His Lordniip, from information he had receiv-
ed fence he came down to the Houfe, would not
trouble their Lordthips with dividing the Houfe, but
he trolled that the fupporters of the Bill would re-
double their efforts againft the time Parliament fhould
meet again, and that they would finally fucceed in
abolithing a traffic, the real objea of which was to
places tle the Slave Merchants of Liverpool and other
o gormandire (wallow more
'coition, and to drink more claret. His Lordlhip
would fay no more at that time—he had difcharged
his confcience, and whenever the fubjea fhould be
again brought forward, it fhould have his zealous
and hearty fupport.
Lord GRENVILLE oppofed the amendment
The preamble oldie Biel, as fent up by the Houk of
Commons, he ohferveJ, let out with Itating, that the
Slave Trade was contrary to the principles of Inftice
and humanity, and ought no longer to be continued-
It was, itinerate, the duty of every Noble Lord,
whole mind was convinced as to that tafl, to declare
his fentiments, and to refit! the Noble Lord's amend-
ment fur poßprining the confuleration of this meafure
to a future feffirm ; for if that rata was true, there
was no confideratiuu which could be urged, oo proofs
which mold be adduced. as to what property might
be injured, or what lucrative commerce might be
defrayed by this Bill, that ought ta weigh with the

Honk
one moment, or induce the Legiflatore to de-
fer for a tingle day the abolition 'of this trade. Of
the number of thofe who felt theniifelves pert:clay
convinced of the wickednefs, the injultice, the inhu-
felf manity, and impolicy of this trade, he profeffed him-
upon that ground
wife and upright nation, he would oppofe the further
wbehicohnefhioualnddaltwhatyresfudire;ett the policy of a
alone,
delay of this Bill, under any pretence that further
confideration or proof were necefrary, after the
mats of information upon this fubjeC already laid on
their Lordlhipe table, and the full confideration the
Coble& had already Co repeatedly received. But if
even further confideration or proofs were n!cefrary,
why poßpone it till the next feffinn of Parliament ?
or what was to impede their Lordfhips from going
as fully as neceffory into thofe proofs and con-fider-
ations during the remaining period of the prefent fef-
fion ? Many fubjetts of great importance were daily
coming forward for their Lordlhips confideration,
and had been recently likuffed with the utmoft fo-
lemnity and molt ample deliberation ; and if their
Lordlhips propoled to go through the bufinefs now
on their table, with the other fubjetts now in delibe-
ration elfewhere, and on their way for their Lord-
fhips' difeuffion, there was no reafon to apprehend
the precut feffion would terminate without allowing
ample time and opportunity for the rotten difcuffion
neceffary upon the Bill now before the Houk. But
fuppofe, even that, inßead of fitting till the middle of
July, it might be necefrary for their Lordfhips to pro-
trait their fittings until the middle of Anguft for this
ptirpokowosid their Lordlhips think this an argument
to induce them to prefer the pleafures of an earlier
recefs, to the humane purpofe of putting a period,
fax months falser, to the horrors perpetrated on the
coaß of Africa it In all events, by going into the
confiderstion of this fubjett now, their Lordfltips
would be the better prepared, not to deliberate but
to decide, early in the next kilns, and thereby do
themfdves the honour, as a Houfe of Brill& Legif-
Were, of taking the lead of Europe in putting a pe-
riod to this abominable traffic ;but he was extremely
lorry to conclude, from the manner in which the
Noble Secretary of State delivered his fentiments
for the aeceffity of delay, that if the amendment was
adopted the dikuffion would be eventually poßponed
not rely to the end of fix months, but to the end
of tmhee nest, and probably the two following feffions
of Parliament.
The Earl of WESTMORELAND, in contem-
plating the prefent (late of this ovation, expected
great fatisfadinn as a Member of that Houle, and
great admiration from a general view of the Confti-
tution. As a Peer of the Realm, he took pride in
the coofideration that the People at large, the mer-
chants interefted in the Slave Trade, and the Cola
would fee that, though not reprefented in that
Houk, yet that their Uttereds were as much attend-
ed to as if they were. In looking at the Conftitution
he could not but admire the eraom of our anceitors,
who bad divided the deliberative power into two
parts, and encompared each with furl forms as
neceffarily led to the correttion of any halty and ill.
advifed meafure paffed in either Wilk. Advert.
ing to the immediate queßion„ he thought it was
in vain to enter upon a fubjeft of fuch great import,
and under fuch cocumflances, when it was manifeß
no deciflon could be come to. Having pained this
train of reafoning in various points and views, be
concluded by giving his decided fupport to the pro-
pofition of the Noble Secretary.
The Bifhop of ST. ASAPH thought further de-
lay of this meafure wholly unneceffary ; and trufted
it would not be felt by a British Haute of Parliament,
necetary to difcufs, at any great length, whether a
traffic fo utterly fubverfive ofjultice ar.d humanity...
a traffic, as had been well noted by a Noble Earl
(Stanhope), in human tears and groans—in human
Meth and blond—and carried on under every criminal
aggravation of cruelty—of chains—of murder, kould
any longer continue to difgrace and degrade the eh:-
ratter of the Britith nation. Did the Houle want
further proof to decide its opinion whether or not per
million was to be given to a fet of criminals to perk.
vere in the perpetration of murders, of robberies, and
other atrocious crimes, becaufe the trade was a lu-
crative one? Evidence was before brought to their
Lordfhips' har to prove infinitely more man enough
in fupport of the abolition of this traffic; and from
the fpecimens he had witnelled of the tettimony given
on that occasion in favour of the trade, be was not'
much inclined to attach implicit credit to the evidence,
even upon oath, of men intereßed in promoting and
continuing this abominable traffic ; efpecially when
fuch evidence was direftly contradifted by that of the
log books of the carrying !hips, though not upon oath.
In fad the conviction of the Slave trade on his mind
was taken from the (worn teftimony of thole who
were adduced in its defence. He wanted no proof
whether the Well India planters were more or lei
cruel to their flave., or whether they confidered them
as mul or inweg—The proofs that were already abun-
dant, as well in the teilimony before the Houfe, as
in the writings of African travellers, (hewed the fitu-
ation of the Africans in their own country, their pro-
grecs of civilization, and their Rate of happinefs in
every part of the country uncontaminated by the
Slave Trade ; and the proofs of the tortures infidel
upon them in the Middle Paffage, were evidence of
the foretofle of the kind of blifs they were to enjoy
in the new Paradife, to which they were patting, in
the Weft Indian Blonds. It was very potfible he
might be called an enthufiall, or a prejudiced bigot,
fur the opinions he now fpoke, by thole who were
more in the habit of reconciling moral evils under the
head of State Policy ; but in spite of the opinion of
fuch hotelmen he had in hi► favour the maxim of the
greatest hotelman in the wickedelt of all the Repub-
lics
oo o
named in f hAiterym(.
France
excepted),as•hat thenaingelryelttheße
Republic
(twice ruin to nation', was she want of will to do ,
(ample " This he held to be precifely the de-
fcription of that policy in which the Slave Trade was
fupported ; and he feared, if the confuleration of the
fubjett was now to be pottponed till the next Seflion
of Parliament, it would, in drat, be an adjournment
of the question, ad Grersu
place trade.
in
butts
advocate
whith hadfor
takenth erecent
a events
nd
Lord MULGRAVE (aid. that he was formerly an
the Welt
par-
ticularly in the ifiaod of St. Domingo. his opinion
was Ca tioggered upon the fillijea. that fat was by no
means prepared to make up his mind at this moment,
whether use trade thnuld be continoed or not, or
whether this Bill west far enough, es Gould sot go

a great way farther, and effea an immediate and to-
tal emancipation of the Weft India Slave.. which.
from what had fallen from a Noble. Earl early in the
debate, he undertlood to bt the objea with the friends
of this Bill. He thought, however, that cool delibera-
tion, and the further bearing of evidence, was indif-
penfable, and therefore he voted for the amendment.
Earl STANHOPE explained, by raying, he never
meant the emancipation of the Slaves in the Welt
Indies to be otherwife than gradual.
Lord fiARROWBY was glad to hear this expla-
nation from the Noble Earl, as heolways underflocd
the immediate and total emancipation of the Welt
India Slaves, was intended to follow up this
His Lordfltip thought delay till neat Selfion smeary.
and voted for the amendment.
Earl ST. VINCENT esprefed his approbation to
the amendment brought forward by.the Noble Secre-
tary of State, and fad it was his omaion, that if this
BM peed. every white perfoo ink e Britifit Weft
India Mauls wapiti be eaVesMat
The Doke,ol Claft.WCE emoted math aftm
niihment at the &arises which be this night beard.
that the Bill &odd ph without further delberatiou,
or without bearing the petkiooers. pr their evidence
againll it. As a Benito, sad sChrilliatt, he had al-
ways learned to refpea the Welty of an oath. as
the pledge of tenth assd between mankind, on
which property and life were perpetually flaked ; but
this night, for the frit tisne. and Row a figh
tRt Re-
verend-Prelate. be leased that ao regard wbe
paid to evidence as qui s but that other talitioay.
lets fawns. was to be profaned. He walked, bow.
ever, *sir latwahlpmwhatever might be their ulti-
mate deli
ten es would sot aft& en bear
the allerthive d iPe_knsy and honourable
perfoos as coopers/ his litteßrs Bata Culonifts of
the Weil fedi& OWN with wear of whom his
Royal Hithasfs was Ow may years intimate. and
with none of whom, could ha believe them capable
of the tyrannical cruelties horned to them,would
be for one moment have sinciated. He hoped.
however, a Bridal Hash ef Parliament would never
vote for annihilating the property of loyal Britills
f*eas, without rat to their reprefentations,
and duly deliberating on the fubjea, more efpecially
of loch 'fables% as the Brides Weft India Colonitts,
who, ander Its feottion of fevers' faceffive Aas of
Parliament for a inks of three hundred years, had
been induced and encouraged to lay out all their pro.
petty in the improvement of thole colonies, and the
extenfion of the African trade ; who now had vett-
ed in thole colonies property to the extent o one
hundred millions ; who returned a trade in produce
to this country of eighteen millions annuaßy, and
which *outfit in a yearly rum to the revenue of four
millions. As one of tholel therefore, who bad fees
with his own eyes the fitnatton of the Slave Trade.ia
the Weil Indies. and not judging by the prejudices
of thofe who had their information from hooray
and mifreprefentation. he could neva confine to
vote away in a moment the property of thrift plant-
ers, becaufe Parliament lbould think fit to reform the
wade which for centuries it had fassitioned, and dries
to ruin chafe whom it had fo long encouraged.
Earl STANHOPE obferved, drat the objet gf the
friends of the Bill west* to ruin thole men, but to
allow them every joft compenfation ; but die prayer
of the petition was not for compcnfation, but for the
trade to continue.
The LORD CHANCELLOR (poke io fupport
of the Amendment, and thought it quite impoSble
for the Houfe to refute its ear to the Petition of Sri-
tith fobjeas, upon a matter where the utter ruin of
their property was at flake. He did not manta
having ever given a vote on this (objet. Evidence,
it was fad, was in abundance on their Idadfhips'
table. He had never looked into this evidence, and
from its volumit.ous fiaq and external appearance.
he did not think the remaining period of the Set:
floe would allow him time for the perufal. The
many important interefis and rights, both public and
rivate, involved in this fubjea, demanded of the
wifdom of the Node to proceed with the moll ma-
uve deliberation; public and private juftice, as well
as national policy, required it. The ruin which thp
(widen adoption of a isseafure like this would not fail
to filed own the condition and property of fo many
indleidurds, called for the carat of humanity and
jollies towards them, as well as towards any other
dais of the perfons within the purview of this Bill.
It ght be a veryfing thing for a Chancellor, hated
on the woolfack, a Right Reverend Prelate, feated
there in virtue of a wealthy diocefe, or a Noble Earl
with a great eflate. to fit and indulge their benevo-
lence end humanity, in voting for a Bill of this kind,
for the relief of one defcription of perfons ; but all he
would a& of Right Rev. and Noble Lords was, to
earcife their benevolence and humanity upon uni-
vocal, not partial principles; and not to indulge
their zeal for promoting the comforts of one let of
men at the expense and total ruin of other claffes,
equally entitled to confideration and junice.
The quellion being now put, Lord Hawkefbury's
amendment was carried without a divifion.—Ad-
lourned.