Star.
London, England, 1816-08-29 00:00:00

IMPROMPTU.

, .
In London—highly•laooone'd town—
' We have a tribe of Butybodtts; • •
Whit run iu terror uplsid down,
Bothering with idle work their noddles!
With doing much they nothing At;
. Their talents te no purpose spending;
Their own vexations they renew,
Still more and more all else offending

• r

POLICE OFTHE METROPOLIS.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE TAKEN BEFORE THE DOM.
MITTLE OF THB HOUSE OF COMMONS. ON THE
'5 I.ITE OF THE POLICE OF THE METROPOLIS.
The Hon. LILNIT Gass BZIOIILT in the Chain

Etanioattoo of Towels eigo, the Peiet °Meer, cootinued.

Do )tm think., from your long obseriation, that
the morals and manners of tbeltriver people are
better or worse than formerly 1..... t am decidedly of
• opinion, that, with respect to the presOtt •tiMe, and
the early part of my time, such as 1734 th 3, 4,4,
6, and 7, where there is one person convicted now, I-
!hay say, I am posiiively convinced there were five
then ; we never had an execntiori wherein we did not
grace that unfortunate gibbet with ten, twelve, to
thirteen, :sixteen, and twenty ; and forty I once saw
-at twic 6 I base them all down at home. I remem-
ber, in 1783. when Serjeant Adair was Recprder,
there were forty hung at two executions—the unfor-
tuoate people themselves laugh at it now ; they call
it a bagatelle. I was convening with an old offen-
dertorne years ago, whot has now quite changed his
life ; and be said—" Why, Sir, where there is one
hung now, there were five when I was young ;" and
I said-44 Yes, you are right in your calculation, and
you are very lucky that you were spared so lon=l
have lived to be a better man." I agree with
Barrington, whom I brought from Newcastle ; and
however great Lord Chief Baron Eyre's speech was
to him, after he had answered him, it came to this
climax :-" New, (says be) Townsend, you beard
what the Chief Baron said to me ; a fine flowery
mash, was it not ?" " Yes s" “ Bat he did not an.
Amer the question I put to him." Now bow could
be ? Now after all that the Chief Baron said to him
after be was acquitted, giving him advice, this word
was every thing : says be,—" My Lord, I have paid
great attention to what you have been sating to me,
after my acquittal :• I return my sincere thanks to
the Jury for their goodnesi : but your Lordship says,
you lament very much that a man of my abilities
should not turn my abilities to a better tile. Now,
my Lord, I have only this reply to make—l am
ready :o go into any service, to work for my labour,
if your Lordship will but find me a master." Why,
what was the reply to that ?..•44 Gooier, take the
prisoner away." Why, who would employ him ?
that- was the point. It is really farcical with me •
tainetimee, when I have heard Magistrates say—
er Young man, really I am very sorry for you ; you
arc mach to be pitied; you should turn your talents
to a better account ; and you should really leave off
this bad course of life." Yes, that is better said than
dohe ; for where is there any body to take these
wretches ? I will take upon myself to say, that I
have known this to be a clear case, which they have
said to me—" Sir. we do not thieve from disposi-
tion ; bat we thieve because we cannot get employ.
snent—oor character is damned, and nobody will
have us :" and so it is ; there is no question about
it: Then again, upon the other hand, there aretases
where men might do, but will not.
Do yogi think, that, taking the small number of
erecuttoss, which is the modern practice, there is a
less or greater nuniber of crimes committed now
than formerly ?.—I think myself there are less; and
lam sot alone in that. Tam astonished, consider.
ink the times. Now, for instance, what was ex-
pected ? that there would be knocking down, and
this, and that, and ,'other. What was the character
of this Sessions, when the Committee are told, and
for a confirmation they may send to the Secretary of
State's Office, how many criminals were convicted ?
I have known 220 tried at one Sessions; I have con-
victed myself from thirteen to twenty-fire for return-
ing from transportation at one Sessions.
is it your opinion, according to your observation,
that the morals and manners of the lower people are
better ?-1 really do not think they are worse; and
with respect to cruelty in robbery, such desperate
th;ngs as we had formerly, there is not a thing ib be
compared to. His Majesty was advised by Mr.
Thomas Townsend, then Secretary of State in 1783,
to punish with severity. Mr. Taylor's father was
Sheriff at that time; in that very Sessions the enor-
mity of the offences was thought so desperate, and
lelunder bad got to such an alarming pitch, that a
tter went -down, by command of his Majesty, to
the theh Judges and Recorders sitting, that his Ma.
jesty would dispense with all the Recorders' Reports,
and that they should select the worst of the offenders
out, and order them for execution, as the Court slould
think fit: they did so ; I think it was either five or
seven in the Sessions week, on the Friday, were le.
leCted, called up on the Saturday, and sentenced,
and ordered for execution on the following. Friday.
Was not the punishment of death put.into execs.
titan more frequently then than it is now ; were not
criminals then hung for the same species of offences
for which they are now transported ?--The number
cally convicted now is not so large by any means.
According to the returns laid before Parliament, at
different periods;' the number of persons committed
for trial seems to have increased considerably of late
years; should you consider that increase to arise
from the augmentation of the population of the city,:
of Iran the increase of crimes amongst the lower
orders ?—The increase of the population most be'
• taken Into consideration, ceetalnly.
• Do not you attribute it to the increased ac.
deity of the Police ? it is not to be can-
owed, for a moment; I first bap it, there
e three Justices at Bow Sir John Fielding
t
and two others; and the Kagistrate, for his re.
utuseration, took tires on what they did—paltry fees;
afil the Act of the Legislatrale swept away all the
blagisaates' two-and-tourpences, and alt the rest of
desk emoluments of that kind; Sic John Fielding
gip wad by those fees of aka •
:Ka& Sir Jehir.Fieldbqf say salary ( nry trifling,
if any; the Chief flagistragi seed Monday

:.

~s

morniug to settle with the clerk the account of those
fees.
The activity of the officers of Bow-street has infi-
nitely increased of late years 1: No doubt about it ;
and there is•one thing which appears to me most ex-
traordinary, when I remember, in very likely a
-Week, there should be from ten to fifteen highway
robberies. We have not had a man committed for a
highway robbery lately; I speak of persons on horse-
back ; formerly there were two, three, or tour high-
wAymen, some on Hounslow Heath,. some on Wim- '
bledon Common, some on Fincbley Common, some
OR thy. Romford rind. I have - actually come to
Bow-street in the morning, and while I have been
leaning over the desk, had three or four people come
in and-say, leas robbed by two highwaymen in such
a place; I was robbed by a single highwayman in
such a place. People travel now safely by means of
the Lone patrole, which Sir Richard Ford planned.
Where are then highway robberies now ? as I Was,
observing to the Chancellor at the time I was up at
his house on the Corn Bill : he said. " Townsend, I
knew you very well, so many years ago." .1 said,
" yes, my Lord; I remember your coming fist to
the bar, first in your plain gown, and then as King's
Counsel, and now Chancellor. Now your Lordship
sits as Chancellor, and directs the executions on the
Recorder% Report; but where are the highway rob-
beries now r and his Lordship said, ,‘Yes, I am
'-estouished." There are no footpad robberies or road
robberies not, but merely jostling you in the streets.
They used to In ready to pop at a man as soon as he
let down his glass( that ryas by banditties.
You remendirek the ease of Abershaw ?—Yes ; I
bad him tuckettue where he wan;. it was through me.
I never left a Court of Justice without having dis-
charged my own feelings as much in favour of the
unhappy criminal as I did on the parenf the prosecu-
tion ; and I once ipplied to Mr. Janie, Buller to
save two men out of three who were convicted ; and
on my application we argued a good dial about it.—
I said—a My Lord, I .have no motive but my duty
the Jury have pronounced them guilty. I hatorbeard
your Lordship pronounce sentence of death, and I
have now informed you of the different dispositions of
the three men. If you choose to execute them all I
have nothing to say about it but was I you, in the
room of being the officer, and you were to tell me,
what Townsend has told you I should think it would',
be for a justification for you to respite thous two un-
happy men, and hang that one who has been convic-
ted three times before." The other men had never
been convicted before; and the other had becniehree
times convicted ; and he very properly did. And
how are Judges or Justices to know how many times
a man has been convicted but by the information of
the officer in whose duty and department it is to keep
a register of old offenders. The Magistrate sits up
there, he knows nothing of it till the party is brought
before him—he cannot.

Do you think any advantages arise from a man
being put on a gibbet after his execution ?—Yes, I
was always of that opinion.; and I reconunendid Sir
William Scott to hang the two men that are hanging
down the River. I will state my reason. We will
take for granted. that. those men were hanged as this
morning. for the murder of those revenue °Seers—
they are by law dissected ; the sentence is, thaiatter-
wards the body is to go to the surgeons for dissection;
there is an end of it—it dies. But look at this :
There are a couple of men now hanging near the.
Thames, where all the sailors must come up ;--and
one says to the other...A Pray what are these two
fellows there for 1"-6 Why, (says another)
poor
Irill go and ask." They ask—" Why, those two
men are hang and gibbeued for murdering his Ma-
jesty's revenue officers." And so the thing is kept
alive. If it teas not for this, people would die, and
nobody would know any thing of it. In Abershaw's
case I said to the Sheriff—" the only difficnky in
hanging this fellow upon this place is its being so
near Lord Spencer's house ;" but we went down,
and pointed out a particular place ; he was hung at
the particular pitch of the hill where he used to do
the work. If there was a person ever went to see
that man banging I am sure there was.a hundred
thousand. I received information that they meant
to cut him down. I said to Sir Richard Ford—" I
will counteract this ; in oider to have it done right,
I will go and sit up all night, and have eight or ten
officers at a distance, for i shall nail these fellows,"
for I talked cant language to him. However we had
the officers there. but nobody ever came, or else,
Ding so cline to Kent-street, they would have come
down and sewed the gibbet, and taken it all away,
for Kent•street was a very desperate place, though it
is not so now. Lord Chief Justice Eyre once
went the Home Circuit ; he began at Hertford, and
finished at Kingston. Crimes were so deilSerate,that io
his charge to the Grand Jury at Hertford, he finished,
e‘ Now, Gentlemen of the Jury, you have heard my
opinion as to the enormity of the offences committed :
be careful what bills you find, for whatever bills you
find, if the Ludes are convicted before me,, if they
are, convicted lor a capital offence, I have made up
my mind, as I go through the circuit, to execute
every one." He did so be never saved man or
wotnan ; and a singular circumstance occurred, that
stands upon record fresh in my mind ; there were
seven people convicted for a robbery in Kent-street,.
for calling in a pedlar;. and after robbing the may
he jumped oat of the windows There were four
men and three women concerned ; they were all con-
victed, and all hanged in Kent-street, opposite She,
door; and. I think, on Kennington Common eight
more, making 14 all that were convicted were hung.
Do you think the milder execution of the law
which is at present practised, has had any bad eireet
in increasing the number df criminal ff-pft is impose
sible, almost, to say; one would hope hot: bat I
really do not know what to say to that; I do- sot
know ,what the Penitentiary House may do, for
know very little of its regulations yet, but 1 will
take upon myself to say, that the confining a person
for five years will be more punishment than ten ear.
entices. -Loch a man up for flu years, it• is any
thing and every thing. Ido not know what hanks
may be, but I know to an old thief it meld be dread-
ful, day after day. I have always bees decidedly of
opinion, and have told the Judges so, nobody, hi In 7
Opinion ought to suffer death but those who cameo
murder, swum and cm, and setting (Ire, and °boom
against nature; as t• all the rest, if yea met those
to the Peakeatieryi Howe 1 disk. k void be pt.'
finable. , • •

State to the Cotamittau "fiat you Wok an the

•
leading obstructions to the convidlon of Criminals
against the public peace ?-10 the first place, persons;
object to the expense; we all know that the expense
is not so much, provided the prosecution, is not con.
ducted by P.ttorney and Counsel; but we cannot
beat that into the public.; and if that is done there
comes a bill of 20 or 030. Others do not like it
because there is such a waste of time; sometimes
they must wait three, four, or five days at the Old
Bailey before their trial comes on, besides the exami-
nation at the Office, all of which are existing cir-
:assistance:, thit are daily occurring, and therefore a
great many people will not prosecute ; and in some
cases persons are deterred from an unwillingness to
have their names brought in.
1)o you think reasons such as you have given,
operate very strongly on a great proportion of those
individuals who suffer injury in one way and another,
and prevent their appearance ?—I think there are a
great number of offenders escape merely because
persons will not go to the expense and trouble of
prosecuting.
JOHN NELSON LAVENDER, called in, and Examined.
What 9ffice do you belong to?—Queen-square.
How long have you belonged to that Office ?—Six
years, the 19th of last March.
Did you hold any situation in that Office, or any
other, prior to your appointment there 3—Yes, I
held a situation in Bow-street Office for five years.
Is the situation you hold now to be considered as
one in the way of promotion ?—Not exactly so : I
left Bow-street; I was one of the Patrols; I on
account of a quarrel with the late Mr. Bond.
What is the nature of the duties of your Office ?
We have to attend from eleven in the morning to
three in the afternoon, aid from seven to eight in
the evening.
Do you au attend regularly, or is it only a propor-
tion of yen each day f—We all ought to attend, but
if we are oet on our duty that attendance is not re-
quired; it is understood that we should attend, but
if there, is any business comes into the Office, or any
information of felon, we are dispatched.
I • it'a rule at the Office, that the individual want.
ing your assistance is sure to find some of you there
at Office-hoursf—Yes ; and when the Office is shut
there is a house of call for us.

Your salary is one guinea per week ?—lt is.
Are you accustomed to attend at any of the Public
Offices ?—Nn, I attend at the Opera House twice,
and sometimes three times a week ; I succeeded Mr.
Townsend in that appointment.
Of course you receive from the Managers of the
Opera an emolument for so doing ?—Yes, I receive
a guinea a night ; and I am obliged to provide other
assistance.

Are you accustomed to receive compensation from
private individuals, who employ you on any specific
service in which you are engaged ?—Yes ; and that
is the only means by which we can exist.
If it were not for that reward which you receive
far specific services performed, should you consider
the salary paid by the Public as sufficient to induce
you to keep the situation which you at present hold
—Certainly not; I could not do it, from the nature
of my business; that salary would very frequently
be spent in one half of the first day, we are obliged
to spesid i goof deal of money in obtaining infor-
mation of which the Goternment knows nothing.
Do you receive in cases of convictions or appte.
hewn of offenders under the Statute, a share in
that reward which is known•by the name of the Par-
liamentary Reward ?—I have received several shares,
but that is a business which I always decline, if I
can possibly avoid it ; no Police Officer can go into
the box at the Old Bailey with any comfort to him-
self, knowing that be will be asked the question by
Counsel, which is always extremely unpleasant.
You are then quite aware, when you are placed in
that situation, that it is one of suspicion to a Jury
who are to receive your evidence, and to your own
breast it is most painful feel it so always.
Can you state to the Committee what is the
amount which you should suppose
.any Officer at
your Office has made in any one year by the Parlia-
i mentary rewards ?—I think that in our Office there
has been less made than in any other Office. I
should conceive no one of them has ever made 430
a year by those rewards. We have had very few
convictions in our District for these four or five years.
I do not think there have been snore than four or
five burglaries.
Should you not think the other Officers, as well as
yourself, would be much better satisfied with having
rewards for specific services performed, paid either
by the Magistrates, or ordered by the Judge. you
then being a competent Witness, than by the present
mode ?—I think I can answer• that with a great deal
of truth, on the part of myself and' my brother offi-
cers, that it is the feeling of every one of them that
the Parliamentary reward should cease ; that they
would feel much better satisfied to be paid by the
Magistrate for any extra services performed.
Even though the amount received might be less
than they now receive ?—Certainly. I have convict-
ed two as notorious offenders as have troubled the
town for many years. last Sessions ; the celebrated
Roberts. and White (Conkey Beau, as he is called) ;
and the only reward I got for that was 16s.
Was that a share of the Parliamentary reward ?
An allowance made by the county to prosecutors and
witnesses attending.
In the nature of a Rompensation for loss of time ?
—Yes; but it was brno Means a compensation ; in
e oae ease the parties are bankrupts, and the officers
are left merely to that.
Have not the Magistrates at the'different Police
Oases a power to give something in the nature of
wards foe extra services The Polies Act men-
tion it; bat, I have always found our own Magi-
strates decline it; they scarcely pay the expenses of
the officers. 'At the Bow-street Office I believe they
are paid for every thing, and that very liberally
but they are under a different establishment from
the other Police Offices. I do not think, since I have
been at Queen-square Office. which is six years, that
my payment for extra services has amounted to
except where I lave been out as an extra•constable '
on public fetes, and en such occasions.
Supposing that the Parliamentary► rewards wen
taken away; nod that the Officers of the Police were
to realm toe their exertions the reward which indi-
*ideals sleight think fit to pay them for their trouble.
*hit *Mad you think a sufficient salary on the part
of the pablic f—As an Officer is expected to keep
:Wain% and to be above temptatiqpj and to do no- j