The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-07-12 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MONDAY.

Mr. GiLLox gave notice that, on Monday, he would move
resolutions regarding taxes on internal communication.
Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to Lord Mahon's inquiries,
said that the government of Spain objected to the extension
of the " Eliot treaty" beyond the Basque provinces, because,
as there were bands of marauders all over the country, if
they were taken they would allege that they were Carlists,
and worda °Utilizes +n 1.0 Ole 0119,1gea and as to Count Nessel-
rode's inquiring whether a stop could not be put to the war
in Spain by interference, as in the case of Belgium, nothing
had resulted from it.

Lord PALMERSTON, in answer to Mr. Milne's questions
respecting the existing relations of Turkey and Egypt, said
that there was the best understanding between England and
France on the subject, and Marshal Soult's representations
were correct that persons had been sent to Constantinople
and Alexandria to effect, if possible, an arrangement between
Turkey and Egypt, so as to avert from Europe the danger of
a war. With respect to the Persian ambassador, he had been
told at Constantinople, Vienna, and Paris, that he could not
be officially recognised in this country until Persia had satis-
factorily adjusted demands that had been made in writing to
that power.
Mr. O'CONNELL made inquiry respecting our relations
with Texas.

Lord PALMERSTON said that Texas had applied to be re-
cognised ; but that peculiar circumstances had induced the
government to withhold recognition of such state.
Captain PECHELL renewed inquiries ,regarding encroach-
ments of the French fishermen now on the coast of Scotland.

Lord PALMERSTON answered, as the house knew, that ne-
gociations had long been proceeding on the subject, and
that he hoped soon to be able to have to announce a satisfac-
tory result.
Mr. P. THOMSON said, in answer to Mr. H. Hinde's in-
quiry, that a bill was preparing to embody the recommenda-
tions of the report on steam navigation, and the disasters
arising from deficient legislation on the subject ; but that he
had no intention of presenting it this session.
Sir R. PEEL asked whether Sir J. Colborne had not urged
that the limitation to 1842 of the permanency of the council
in Canada would be injurious, and check public improve-
ments. ,

Mr LABOUCHEftE said he was not aware of any specific
statement, of more than distant allusion, in the despatches.

JAMAICA BILL.

Lord J. RUSSELL moved the order of the day for taking
into consideration the lords' amendments to the Jamaica
bill. He would state now generally that he proposed to
agree to all the amendments made by their lordships except
one, and that was merely of a formal nature, owing to a
blunder that was made in the House of Lords. (Hear,
hear.) The chief alteration was the omission of the first
clause, and it was unnecessary for him to state to the house
the arguments upon which that omission was founded. It
certainly did deprive the bill of a great deal of its power and
utility, but it was far better to send the bill as it was to the
governor than to send no bill at all. Another alteration pro-
vided that two months should pass after the meeting of the
House of the As'sembly before the governor should have the
power to continue any bills that were about to expire. The
first amendment to which he had alluded, was of the follow-
ing nature. The preamble recited—that whereas the altered
state of society consequent upon the abolition of slavery, in
Jamaica, required the enactment of certain measures ; and,
whereas, the House of Assembly, by an address, &c.---and
so the preamble went on, but by an amendment made by the
House of Lords, the first part of the preamble excluded the
word "Jamaica "—and it did not appear to what island the
bill alluded—a mode of proceeding which it was quite neces-
sary to correct. (Hear and a laugh.) He proposed therefore
the introduction of the words, " the island of Jamaica." The
other amendments were then agreed to.
Sir R. PEEL said the amendments made to the bill restored
it to very much the same shape which he proposed should be
adopted. He rose, however, more for the purpose of expres-
sing his earnest hope that the House of Assembly of Jamaica
would justify the confidence which was now placed in it by
the general sense of parliament, and they would realise the ex-
pectations that were entertained that they would not only
resume their functions, but that they would proceed in that
spirit and temper which would at the same time raise the
assembly of Jamaica in public estimation in that country, and
show them that the intention of suspending the constitution
and abolishing their legislative functions, were not justified
by the result. That was the advice which he (Sir It. Peel)
would give the Assembly of Jamaica, and he trusted that it
would be received by that house in al proper spirit.—(Hear.)
Sir R. PEEL instituted inquiries regarding the metropolitan
police employed at Birmingham, observing that he thought
such force ought to be sparingly used on such occasions.
Lord J. Itussam. answered that the transactions were not
different from what had often been done with that force du-
ring the last three or four years • that the local authorities of
Birmingham had requested aid, being apprehensive of the con-
sequences of the meeting in the Bull-ring ; that a force of 60,
then of 40 men were sent ; that they had acted well and effi-
ciently, but cautiously and firmly ; that, according to the last
letters, he believed tranquillity and security to be restored ;
that (he added in replY to Capt. Wood's inquiry) he had
never found local authorities to dispute making good the ex-
pense incurred ; and that he intended to apply for an addi-
tional grant, so as to have a disposable police force always
ready for emergencies in the country.

TIMBER DUTIES.
Mr. VILLIERS then rose to move, that the house do re-
solve itself into a committee of the whole house, to consider
the present duties levied on foreign and colonial timber. He
denounced the timber of Canada as being dear and bad. The
bounty which the Canadian timber growers enjoy over the
timber growers of the Baltic, he described as representing a
sheer loss to England, amounting annually to a million and
a half of money. The American timber was not calculated
for building, either by strength or durability; and seeing the
effect which a protecting duty on that article produced, it ap-
peared to him that the tax operated more heavily as respected
the comforts of the poor than even the corn laws. What was
the excuse which would be offered for continuing a tax, the
evils of which were so obvious? He apprehended that it
would be the old watchword of monopoly—namely, " ships
and colonies"—that our navy depended on our commerce,
and our commerce on our colonies. Persons going out to
the colonies employed themselves not so much in felling tim-
ber as in agricultural pursuits. Emigrants were tempted to
engage in a business which was not only hazardous but im-
moral. The expense of freight, cost of loading, and duties
in the docks, which caused a fluctuation of only five per cent.
in this country, very frequently made a difference of 30 or 40
per cent. in the colonies. It appeared that a new and very
important trade in timber had arisen with the West Indies.
Surely, then, this country would not be content to lose
£1,500,000 a-year to support any party of monopolists. But
those who represented what was termed the colonial interest
were not so much engaged on that account as for the chipping

interest. Now, it appeared that though 1360 ships were said
to be employed in the colonial timber trade, yet that the ships
made two voyages in the year, and in fact not half the num-
ber, 630 ships, were actually employed in it. The hon. gen-
tleman then went on to argue at some length that since the
reciprocity treaty had been entered into with Prussia, the
shipping interest of Great Britain had considerably increased.
He would ask if due encouragement were given to the trade
with the Baltic, would not more ships be engaged in it than
there were at present ? There was lately a very considerable
demand for shipping, and no ground of alarm whatever ex-
isted that any country in the world could compete with Great
Britain in this branch of trade. It appeared that in 1821 the
increase of British shipping, as compared with the American,
was 74 per cent., and in 1835 it was 39 per cent. It was quite
evident that the manufacturers of England drew no line of
distinction between foreign customers and colonial customers;
all they desired was the removal of restrictions. Never was
there a moment, in which the question was of more import-
ance than at present, after what had taken place with regard
to the German commercial league. In the course of a very
short time Germany would be certain to adopt the new sys-
tem as to the two principal articles of export from that coun-
try—grain and timber. The hon. gentleman, in conclusion,
moved that the house do resolve itself into a committee for
the purpose of taking into consideration the discriminating
duties on colonial timber, observing, at the same time, that
he should endeavour to render the proposed measure as little
injurious as possible to existing interests.
Mr. Alderman THOMPSON entirely differed from the hon.
gentleman in the view which he took of this question. It
was quite erroneous to snppose that Baltic timber would be
as cheap as it was at present if the trade were thrown open.
British manufactures to the amount of 4,000,000, were ex-
ported to the colonies, and the value of the imports in return,
was not less than £3,000,000. The hon. member next re-
ferred to the report of the committee of 1836, which stated
that 24,000 persons were employed in the colonial timber
trade, all of whom would be thrown out of employment if
any alteration wefe made in it. Not less than 1800 ships
were employed in the trade, and 22,000 seamen, and he man-
tained that the hon. member for Wolverhampton was not
correct in stating that the ships made two voyages in the
year. It ought to be borne in mind that of late Russian,
Norwegian, and Swedish shipping had increased in the ratio
of 60 per cent. The present was a most unfortunate period
for discussing this question, since Canada being in a state of
rebellion, the only tie we could have upon her was to be
found in the commercial advantages which she was likely to
derive from us.

Mr. WARBURTON did not see how a free trade in timber
would injure this country or the colonies. He begged the
house to look at the great difference of the import prices and
and freight of the timber of Canada and the Baltic. It a-
mounted to as much as 20s to 25s per load. There was not
less than 1,500,000 loads of timber in log, exclusive of plank,
and by establishing a free trade in timber, the country would
benefit to the extent of above £1,000,000.
Mr. POULETT THomsoN expressed his disapprobation of
the existing timber duties, but denied that Canada timber
was bad. It was, on the contrary, for many purposes, better
than Baltic timber , and would, if the timber duties were e-
qualised to-morrow, still be usel. in preference; therefore,
the amount of bounty in favour of Canada timber could not
be set down as pure loss to this country. He did not believe
that those who were engaged in Canada in preparing the tim-
ber would suffer materially by a change of duty ; nor did he
believe that the transfer of the trade would follow to the ex-
tent imagined by his hon. friend. If he thought, however,
that the whole transfer would take place, his hon. friend
must calculate the loss to the country at £500,000. Now,
if that argument were pushed further, it would be cheaper to
compensate every person interested in the trade, instead of
submitting to such a loss. If he were told that the foreigners
would become the chief carrying traders, how happened it
that the British were the chief carriers to the Baltic, the
Mediteranean, and Brazils? In addition to the difficulties
which surrounded this subject was that of the present state
of our colonies; and however unfounded their views of this
trade might be, we must watch our opportunity, and not do
that which would add, perhaps, another cause of grievance,
real or supposed, to these colonies. In conclusion, he could
only say, without pledging himself to any ulterior measure,
that it should receive the most serious attention of the go-
vernment, and that there was no indisposition on their part
to carry through any practical scheme at a future day.
The motion was then withdrawn.
Mr. H. HINDE moved for returns regarding the rules and
regulations of the master of the rolls for the custody and
preservation of the public records, which were ordered.
Mr. HINDE then proposed to bring forward his motion re-
garding the suspension of the work called " The Historians
of Britain," undertaken by the government in pursuance of
an address of the house ; but the motion was interrupted by
the house being counted, and " counted out."

HOUSE OF LORDS.—WEDNESDAY.
The Lords did not assemble to-day.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-WEDNESDAY.

After the presentation of petitions by Mr. WAKLEY, &c.,
for the ballot, &c., and for the withdrawal of confidence
from the government as the best means of accomplishing that
object,
Mr. LABOUCHERE laid on the table papers containing Sir
J. Colborne's opinion as to the limitation of the Canada
council's duration to 1842, in consequence of Sir R. Peel's
inquiry on Tuesday. Mr. Labouchere admitted (contrary to
what he had formerly stated) that Sir J. Colborne had ex-
pressed a strong opinion on the subject of so limiting the
period.
Mr. P. THOMSON (in answer to Mr. Baines' inquiry)
stated that though an envoy would not be sent to attend the
assembly in Berlin of the Germanic Commercial League, a
gentleman conversant with commercial matters would at-
tend there to watch the interests of England, and communi-
cate with our ambassador when requisite.
Lord PALMERSTON (in answer to Lord Sandon) said that
the commission for adjudicating on the Portuguese claims
had proceeded : he had been informed that some cases were
settled—" two" were enumerated. His lordship afterwards
moved for and obtained leave to bring in a bill " for the more
effectual Suppression of the Slave Trade under the flag of
Portugal."
Sir J. C. HOEHOUSE stated (in answer to Lord Sandon's
inquiry) that the adoption of the plans recommended by a
committee, respecting the monopoly of salt trade, was satis-
factorily progressing ; and that, as to the trade in British salt
there, he was ready to produce all the information and cor-
respondence on the subject.
On the motion that the house resolve into committee on
the Metropolitan Police Bill.
Mr. T. DUNCOMBE inquired whether certain statements
made in a morning paper, regarding the conduct of the police
at .tsirmingnam, were correct.
Lord J. RUSSELL said that he had no reason to believe
that they had conducted themselves improperly.
In the committee on the bill there was much desultory but
interesting discussion. _

Mr. HiTME complained of the police being sent to scour
the country, and to act as a military force.
Lord J. RUSSELL observed that they were only so used
on special occasions, and he thought it was a better force
than that which had been used some years ago at Manchester
with such lamentable consequences.
Mr. HumE said that it was giving a force to the govern-
ment which was not under the usual control of the crown.
He objected to the clause for payment being made out of the
consolidated fund.

It was, however, carried, on a division, by 107 to 25.
Other clauses called forth comments and objections ; some
were struck out, particularly clauses 59 and 60, after divi-
sions. The remainder of the clauses, with some additional
ones, were then agreed to, the house resumed, and the chair-
man was ordered to report on Friday. The other orders were
then disposed of, and the house adjourned.