Star.
London, England, 1821-02-07 00:00:00

WAYS AND MEANS.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER gave notice
that he would, to-morrow, move that the House do resolve it-
self into a Committee of Ways and Means.

THE QUEEN.-ADJOURNED DEBATE.

Sir ROBERT WILSON rose and expressed a hope
that the House would do him the justice to believe,
that nothing but a persuasion that he was in the pos-
session of information which might be useful to the
House, and that it was incumbent on him, as hold-
ing a popular seat in that House, to take part in the
question—nothing, be could assure the House, but
considerations such as these would induce him to rise
and offer himself to their attention. If he remem-
bered distinctly, the observations which fell from the
Hon. Member who spoke last on the debate yesterday
evening, he only attempted to extenuate the errors
of Government, not to justify their measures. The
Hon. Member for Corfe Castle (Mr. Bankes) had
condemned his Majesty's Ministers for theii pro.ceed-
ings—(No,no).—He appealed to the recollection of '
the House, if that Hon. Member had not said that
he was dissatisfied with the beginning, the middle,
and the end of the proceeding—(Hear)—and that be
had determined to vote in favour of the accused.—
The Right Hon. Member for Oxford, who always
was heard with pleasure, admitted that Minister='
committed three errors—not, indeed, of intrinsic de-
merit in themselves, but calculated in their effects to
make a considerable impression on the public mind.
He attempted to palliate their conduct by saying,
that under the circumstances they were placed in,
they could not have acted better. Ministers, per-
haps, might be able to explain their motives; but, to
him, it appeared that they had committed great
errors. And here he would beg leave to observe,
that the errors of incapacity ought to be visited with
penalties as if they were great offences—the public
good required it. This rule had frequently been
adopted in the case of General Officers and Admirals.
—lt was a fact, which was now upon the record of
history, that an unfortunate Naval Commander had,
for an error in judgment, not only been deprived of
his rank, but his life. With respect to a Bill of Pains
and Penalties, it ought not to be tolerated in any in-
stance, unless it was warranted by extreme necessity.
It was very true that there were precedents for Bills
of that description ; but it ought to be observed that
precedents and practice were very frequently opposed
to the ends of justice. There was only one cause
which could justify the introduction of a Bill of Pains
and Penalties; and:that was a violation of the compact
between the Crown and the People—(Hear, hear).—
He would contend, that a Bill of Pains and Penalties
had actually been brought in at the Revolution. He
would still designate the proceedings against the
Queen as a conspiracy, though at the same time he
would not say that his Majesty's Ministers had been
parties to it. There was, however, one circumstance
which must create suspicion in any mind, with re-
spect to the motives in which those proceedings had.
originated. The time chosen for the Milan Commis-
sion was of a most suspicious character—it was im-
mediately after the death of the ,Princess Charlotte.
He would not say that Ministers had intentionally.
chosen that time, but he thought appearance& were
decidedly against them. It was very singular that
the Commission had been taken, not on the reports
of respectable travellers, but on the foul and impure
works of a Hanoverian Commission, composed of
the Omptedas, the Maurice Credis, and such like
wretches. He would not hold the Ministers respon-
sible for all the acts of the Milan Commission, but he
would charge them with having employed discarded
servants, and the most worthless of the human race,
instead of resorting to the testimony of persons of ho-
nour and character. The late proceedings were, in
fact, in utter violation of all law and justice. He saw
that no inquiries had been made of persons of respect-
ability,whose evidence would have had weight with the
House and the Country. It was well known that the
Queen, while on the Continent, was visited by per-
sons of high rank and station in life; and there were
persons from this country travelling abroad at the
time, whose testimony would be unexceptionable.—
The persons to whom he alluded were perfectly in-
dependent, and could have no interest in withhold-
ing the truth. Yet these had never once been inter-
rogated by. his Majesty's Ministers. The Hon and
gallant General, after some further observations,
proceeded to read extracts of letters from persons of
consideration in Italy, all bearing testimony to the
correct, affable, and decoraus demeanour of the
Queen, and deprecating the proceedings against her.
The first was an extract of a letter wiitten by the
Bishop of Pesaro, who certified, among other things,
that if any slander had been circulated against her
Majesty, in the neighbourhood of Pesaro, he must
have known it, for it could not be concealed ; yet he
had never heard of the slightest circumstance to her
disadvantage. The next were extracts of letters writ-
ten by Cardinal Alvani, the Governor Antaldo, Count
Volti, and the Medical Professor Thomasini, who had
been for some time in this country. The latter stated,
that, from his particular habits of intimacy with the
Queen, as her medical attendant, while she resided
at Pesaro, it was quite impossible that any impro-
priety in her conduct could have escaped his notice.
The extract from his letter concluded with stating,
that her Majesty had been visited by persons of the
highest rank in his country. The Hon. and gallant
General, having read the extracts from the letters,
and commented upon them occasionally, went on to
read an extract from the official book of the Cassino,
or Society of Nobles, at Milan, in order to shew that
die charge of the Queen having been black-balled
by that Society, was a foul calumny. Was there any
woman living who had drank deeper of theaup of
affliction than the Queen ? Yet, was there ever a
woman of a kinder disposition? Were not the very
wretches who came to depose against her, obliged to
confess that she was a person of the most magnani-
mous benevolence? Did she not, like the good Bi-
shop of Marailles, go to administer relief to unhappy
petsons afflicted with the plague ? 'Did she not go.-
-- .6 To draw breath;
" Where nature sielten'd at the eyes of death..!"
Her bitterest enemies were obliged to acknowledge
this. Had she not declined using that formidable

weapon—recrimination, which site tniAt hate
with so much elrect?(Efeer, hear), Ale
ble and t Member then argued at wipe
against rellt7inions of those who woreadej ,Cll
Queen was unworthy to enjoy the Thiel*. -40
was unworthy to enjoy the rights and di d
Queen Consort, why. with that imp:estate:li
minds, had Ministers otiored to give bet a
would enable her to become still mote epos.... "I
in the indulgence of that criminal fussily svivrerv:
imputed to her?—(Hear, hear). The Ho& 112,
for Corfe Castle had expressed his surprise :1Z
wise and enlightened People of England a
occupied with discussions of so futile a moue,'
the People of England were wise and edL'
could not be denied, but then they seve°oo7l
,debted to that Honourable Member for it, as he
lien all in his power to keep them in darines4
ing that ignorance was the best security nss
State—( Hear. hear). The Hon. and gallant
concluded some additional observations, by
the House, that, if at any time the sentiments-I";
he professed should not be considered in unison it
those of the country, he would be ready to tag.
the seat he had the honour to h.ld.

Mr. HUSKISSON stated, that he felt himself,.
'
pelled, after what he feared was a long Poliae,--
tary life, to offer himself to the notice of the Rm:-
Upon ordinary occasions, he felt disposed
rather;
defer to the opinions of others, than to offer his
hut, on the present important occasion, be vas .•
duced to claim their indulgence, however
tent he felt himself to support that claim, ado:
would touch upon'
the direct question before 4
House, he would *very shortly address Naha to
remark which had fallen from the Honourable
Learned Member for Knaresborough (SirJ. K •
cosh}, That Honourable and Learned Ger
had put an erroneous construction upon an
tion from his llonourable Friend (Mr. litlike,);
in that erroneous construction he had been
by the gallant General who had just sat•dcark
(Mr. Huskisson) had never understood his II
able Friend to condemn the measures of his 31+4
Ministers. He had said me-ely, that he at
.satisfied with those measures—(Cheers Pon tito,
position Benda:). Ha understood those elee't
but what followed that observation of his H„
able Friend? Why, " that if the tiro
which had given rise to those measures were
occur again, he did uot know but that his M *.,•
Ministers ought to !Ake the >erne murals
—(Loud cheers from :,;!e Ministerial Benches) .1
language of the Honourable Member for
Castle was perfectly j u fiable as to the consists
the war and the mode of its term:nation. Theme,
of the peace was clear, limn this.circurnstanm the
in six years therehad not been: the slightest detm
stration of hostility. :The Billi alluded to by the Ilet
ber for Ketaresborotigh- had not been inefficient, it
had restored. tranquillity to the disturbed dinrim
At the time of the. Bills passing,, it bad. been nil I!
the Holnuriblellentfeungippßofils.,,that the*
of petition *Mild' be 'Wholly precluded, and now, .
told the Honk that Petitions had never beeu.so
rnerotis as sheet the passing of t)iilftils.. That
dne of the many ificoasisteneierdiat marked' the
duct of those Honourable Gentlinferi: They p
the strongest wish to allay the irritation in the . •
mind; but the means adopted by them for that pa
Hpose seemed- ter him 'of. rattifea singular dray
is Honourable: Friends Made no charges •
the Queenttbut- being called On to state why
had not conferred a mark Of 'favour upon her,
were bound to state the - reasons to *the •

As to the evidence before the Lords; it mild
warrant the infliction of any puniilimentilla
looked to it as information of a very
racter. By the termination of the'prOceecriiis
House of Lords, the Queen had been virtually
quitted, and was entitled to all the privilege
Queen Consort ; and that had been recognised it
Speech from the Throne. The chief legal shier
the Queen, had stated the question of the •
be one as light as air, though he had diem* •
that he had delivered that opinion as a Meek
Parliament, and not as the legal adviser of the
lie thought the demand for explanation, made
the Member for Corfe-Castle, was perked) gir-
t whether the Hon. Gentleman had, before the
arrival in this country, attached so much image
to the question of the Liturgy ? Was the Nobielis
with whom the Learned Gentleman travelled, wo
that any such insuperable difficulty existed? k
now the Learned Gentleman had brought due:
Message from the Queen, that no money would
accepted till the name of her Majesty, aka
restored to the Liturgy. He would simply
the fact, that an inquiry bad formerly takes' ,
in 1806, which had drawn upon the Rae%
Princess of Wales, an admonition and repeall
his late Majesty ; and, in 1813, the Privy
had been of opinion that her intercourse eiti
Princess Charlotte should be restrained-4
In 1814, the Queen went abroad and entered I
course of life, that, if innocent, was certainly ckg,
ilaced to excite suspicion. The rapid elevation rill
individual in question, and the intimacy to ull:091
was admitted, were certainly unusual circular/2;A
But it was not till four years afterwards, when lllk
English attendants had left her, that it was th 02.1

necessary to institute proceedings. What
have been thought of such conduct in private
the high rank of the parties called for intrirl.
Whatever tended to injure the Sovereign, tended
the same time to injure the Crown and the Cone
On the death of the late King, the question . „
"
Liturgy forced itself upon the notice of Mini4lT!
who were at the same time anxious for an 10°7
arrangement, and had grounds to think that the"
of it would not have been unacceptable to the Qum'
But if the negotiations could not be brought te*
amicable adjustment, it was obvious that these°
of the Queen could not be inserted in the ',it'll::
The real practical question brought forward h/`-
Noble Lord was, the removal of 31inisters;
the Gentlemen opposite it w0u1.41 be a battle CI
lerloo, by which all the objects of the Parliatnerl
warfare would be at once attained. Even 41
the motion fail, the table of the House would..lo,
said, be covered with Petitions in favour of Pal
meutary Reform, in favour of the glorious systro
Annual Parliumenti, universal Suffrage, and
System of Ballot. so opposite to that of t: e
Corner Men, •shouz.,ll amidst- the jiff:mot plod
Reform it might b.; Jiilicult to.lo:na a *:CC*.IIII

some wa ri that sme of thoselans
op s
ros:,Rreolution.sk Lookinog at the conduct snight
of the
'ince her arrival in this country, he was of
• that, had the question of the Liturgy been
ceded, some other demand,. equally inadmissible,
yeald have been made. To restore the Queen's name
she Liturgy would be to proclaim that,.as the wife
the sovereign, her conduct had been blameless :
adt the was a fit model of female propriety and ho-
or, and that her conduct since her return to the
had been respectable to the King and the
He could not concur in the Address, as the
i'esaurt of the Queen was not that befitting a modest
tea; and her triumph would be that of the prin-
ewes which she had so sedulously disseminated in
to count ry. With the Message from the Crown, he
open the whole question would have terminated.
wir. BENNET'' should think ill of himself if he
%fd not put his opinions on this subject on record;
end should he share in the ruin that the measures of
Ministers are preparing for the country, it would be
Kee consolation that he was no party to those mee-
k was matter of curious remark, that all the
speeches on the opposite side of the House had stu-
diously avoided all approbation of Ministers. The
Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had stated that witnesses
of rank and character would be brought forward to
substantiate the charges; but no such characters had
ever made their appearance. He would ask the Noble
Lord, who had furnished the information that had
been put into the hands of the chief Law Officers of
the Crown? He could not detach his mind from
the responsibility of Ministers, who had forced the
Queen to come into this country, after she had been
insulted abroad by those Hanoverian animals. The
offer made to her was indignantly refused, and she
threw herself upon the affections of the People. If
one-fourth of the evidence was true, Ministers ought
to be impeached for the offers they had made her.—
ji Right Hon. Gentleman, a Member of his Majesty's
Government, had stated the Queen to be the life and
ornament of society. Was it possible that, with such
language on his lips, he should believe in the charges
against her? When it was sworn, that for five morn-
ings the Queen had been seen coming from the cham-.
ber of her alle,sed paramour, would it not have
been a natural caution on the part of Ministeri, to
ban ascertained if .she had been five days in the
one where this was stated to have taken place ?
Never had any Ministers done so much to destroy all
moral feeling in this country. As a Member of the
tbutcl. of England, he must have the highest reve-
reace for it; but the conduct of some of those Right
Illeverend Prelates, who had differed on the words of
Abe Founder of our Religion, had done • much to
bring the Church into contempt. Whatever mis-
-mduct they may have to lament from the heads or
lower orde:s of that Church, they were all to be at-
tributed to the measures of his Majesty's Govern-
ment. He could tell them of a faction which had
used the Queen for their purposes. It was one that
at first supported a woman against their opponents ;
but afterwards, when it suited their purposes to
throw her overboard, they did so, by perjured evi-
dence to support false accusation. The people saw
that the present Government had put the character,
the honour, and the institutions of the country so
much at hazard that they could no longer trust
them; and they would prefer any set of men as Mi.

listen, be their character as bad as their worst ene-

sties might please to represent it. These were the
rounds on whickle made his stand against his Ma-
jesty's present Government. He believed them to be
so disgraced, that he cared not who took their places,
not e►en if it. were the first eleven men that could be
picked up in the streets—(Hear, hear).
Mr. WELLESLEY POLE could not sit silent and

hear such charges against Government, of which he
formed a part, especially when there could be no
doubt that the motion of the Noble Lord had made
the Queen's case a vehicle of the &reatest force to pro-
cure the dismissal of his Majesty s Ministers—(Hear,
hoar). .But this was nothing new, inasmuch as there
had not been a measure of the Government, for the
last ten years, on which the Noble Lord and the Gen-
tlemen opposite would not have been equally ready
at on the present occasion to move a vote of censure
en Ministers. It was admitted by the Gentlemen op-
posite, that they cannot convince the House against
the Government ; but that they brought forward this
motion to satisfy the mass of the People, who sup-
rthem. •It was enough for them to satisfy the
oues! of Commons, as the only legitimate Repre-
sentation of the People. But it was extraordinary to
see how these Whigs vacillated. He was old enough
to remember Mr. Fox saying that it was in vain to
look for the sense of the nation except in that House.
These Whip would not follow him in that; and from
the time that Mr. Pitt succeeded Mr. Fox, by the
sense of the Nobility, the Commons, and the thinking
.part of the People of England, these magnanimous
Whigs joined the discontented enemies of the Govern-
ment ; he agreed that no Government should exist,
after having lost the confidence of the Nation; and
he believed, with the Member for Code Castle, that
the House of Commons, as now constituted, afforded
more means for introducing a great variety of talents
into the House than could be introduced by any other
means to be devised by the wit of man. One Mem-
ber had been twice ousted from the County of West-
moreland. He had tried Liverpool without success,
:and he sat now for a snug little Borough ; brought
;in, as the Radicals would say, under the patronage
4 a great man ; but he would say, that the Learned
Gentleman (Mr. Brougham) was a good Member of
Parliament, and a sound Whig—(Hear, hear).—
A Right Honourable Gentleman had been scouted
:for one Borough, and now he sat for another ;
vet he was as good a leader of the Whig Oppo-
-salon as if he had represented fifty Boroughs.—
Another Honourable and Learned Gentleman could
an be more .the .orator of the human rice if he sat
for the whole world, instead of for the Borough of
iinaresborough along with his Right Hon. Friend.
Alesontended that the Houses of Lords and Com-
lawns did agree with his Majesty's Government .in
•die necessily of an inquiry into the conduct and
charges against the Queen. He had it on the.autirr
lay of the Speaker, that all that had passed in the,
Home of Lords was now matter of record, and mightl
be referred,to by any individual whatever. How I
'ever, ht would say nothing on these proceedings time
'mod glee pain to the Queen or any one else. They
lolicl.uot, however, as •honest men, have advised the
Ammon of the Queen's name in the Liturgy as a'
Aisner of special grace and favour, under the sir. !