Star.
London, England, 1819-12-15 00:00:00

our Bill—it won't do to let it pass off quietly! and
at last the Noble Lord (Castlereagh), whir was not
able to manage so delicate a business as the paper,
handed it over to his Right Honourable Friend (Mr.
Canning), who was always happy to have something
on which he might ring the changes against the Whip!
He, for one; would sign that paper, although he
thought it not a little odd to bethus called on to de-
fend the opinions of other people.' He would, how-
ever, beg leave to tell the Right Honourable Gentle-
man that the Bill of Rights extended to England,
and ,the different other Bills he had enumerated ex-
clutvely. to the Highlands of Scotland. That Eng.
land was in danger at the time these Acts were
passed no man could doubt, and yet no power was
then ever given to search for arms. The great seat
of the Jacobites was at Manchester—the people of
Lancashire were then the confederates and.conspira-
tors with them, but the County of Lancashire then
escaped such measures as are now proposed.. The
condition of Scotland was then a condition of dan-
ger, but unless the same danger now existed, the
passing of those Acts could be no precedent for the
measures now insisted on by his Majesty's Govern-
ment. The Right Honourable Gentleman has said,
why, if you have passed a Bill against Training, can
you not also suppose that arms are in the hands of
the parties drilled, and that those arms will be im-
properly-used; or when the command to fire was
answered by a clapping of hands, that transporta-
tion was a very merciful punishment for such an
offence? He did not think so; he did not believe
in the amount of the dangers stated at the other
side of the House, and he would not vote for mea-
• sures he believed every way calculated to do inis-
chief.—[Here Mr. Canning threw a paper across
the table nearly under the hands of Mr. Tierney.]
" By some good fortune or other (said Mr. Tierney),
the Right lion. Gentleman, in his wrath, has put the
paper into my hands, from which he has derived the
principal topics of his speech. Theirreamble of one
of these Acts, indeed the preambles of those Acts
passed at and after 1715, recite that the High-
landers marched about in arms and martial array ;
but that resulted from the nature of their Clanships,
which gave them the appearance of regiments.—
They went about avowedly in arms, they did not
conceal it, they made no secret about it, they were
all regularly drilled and trained ; all, no doubt, very
like that which has lately occurred in a few districts
where a few pikes were found, and a few suspicions
were entertained of finding a few more!"—(Hear, and
• laughter). But would this,justify the proposed mea-
sures ? He could never believe it. It was now thrown
in their teeth that they did not oppose the Training
Bill which was passed in two days ; and the Hon.
'Gentleman, at the other side pf the House, cried out,
" Oh, only you agree to the summary mode of pro-
ceeding lb that case, and only be so inconsistent as to
delay the present meitsure r But it seemed to him,
very extraordinary, if the danger of the country,
'from the improper use of arms, was so great that
three weeks should be taken to disarm the People,
which should have been done in the first instance ;
and even allowed' three weeks to receive new evi-
dence, not a tittlii of which had since been offered.—
There was no evidence a hatever before them to prove
that there were piles of muskets found in any quar-
ter, or that they were likely to be found, although,
indeed, they were informed by a Government Circular,
'that some pieces of cannon were " lyint about," which
were subsequently very safely lodged in some Castle,
or perhaps destined to guard some rampart no one
ever dfe;rmt of attacking(Latighter).—Yet this was
the way in which his Majesty's Ministers made out
their precedent. They 'night as well make the Re-
bellion of Ireland a precedent, or-those of the Iligh-
landers of Scotland ; any thing to serve their turn, and
enable them to gallop over the course they had chalked
out to follow: If they relied on these precedents, they
made against them, and went entirely in suppre Col
his construction of the Bill of Rights, and in defence
of the People's inalienable -1•4 ht to the possession of
arms. He wondered how an Hon. Friend of his (Mr.
W. Wynn) had permitted the Right Hon. Gendarme
(Mr. Canning) to read the Paper which was so useful.
to him, in, the dearth of any thing to say on the sub-
ject before the Committee; he wondered he was not
interrupted by his Honourable Friend, fir he ex—
pected it would have been called *Breach qfPrivi'ege!
It was much worse than any of the late cases that
had come before them. For that paper not only al.
luded to what passed in another place, bat the Right
Honourable Gentleman read it avowedly as if from
a Newspaper. Now that was a much worse case, a
much greater breach of privilege than others which
.had been brought before them, and he felt astonished
that no interruption was offered to its perusal; but
perhaps the quarter from which it came lessened that
.breach, which, in other quarters, might have been a
much more heinous offence—(Lnueter). Again, he
-repeated, he would sign that Paper, and so would
every man who valued the rights and liberties of the
'People. So far he had answered the Right Honour-
able Gentleman's speech, and shewn pretty clearly
that all the Acts to which that Gentleman had alluded
were only applied to certain districts, and not to
England generally ; and so far the whole support of
his speech had fallen to the ground. The desperate.,
Whigs, as they were called, supported that family
on the 'Throne, which they had there, and
that by those very measures which were now so
much abused. Those desperate Whigs were now
very obnoxious to the Right Honourable Gentle-
man, although he (Mr. Tierney) could net discover
the cause of all his antipathy to them—(A laugh).—
If lie could refer to a printed paper, if he could men-
tion a newspaper, without committing a brea-ch of
privilege—(Much laughter)--he thought he recol-
lected, that Right Honourable Gentleman did not
refuse to take offices with the Whigs, with all their
demerits ; nor would they now have heard his phil-
lipic against them, if he were very nice in his com-
pany-, for he (Mr. Canning) had only to look both
right and left, and he would be sure to see some of
those who were alternately the subject of his censure
or his praise, as either served his purposes the better
—(Laughter).—They came at last to the Bill itself;
and though he was desirous of accommodating the
Gentlemen opposite, yet he should first have a case
made out that would satisfy him of 'the necessity of
the measure. That of 1812 had been relied on, but
that was a much more critical period than the pre-
sent ; the evidence then was not supposed, it was
quite decisive. He-had no doubt that a few persons


•••:-

throughout the country had pikes, and that a few
more were suspected of having them. In the
case before alluded to, and. from 'which the :No!
ble Lord had drawn a pracedaut, Osere was,
as it had been stated by his Honourable and'
Learned Friend, a Corresponding Society, and persons
connected sirith it of considerable weight aid import-
ance. In the instance before them, it was not pre-
tended that an individual above the rink of a mid •
dling manufacturer was to be found. Arms could
not be procured without money, and he did not ap-
prehend that the arsenal of the disaffected was for-
midable, for he had collected, from the same authentie
source of information as was produced by a Right
Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Canning),U Newspaper,
that the loss of four pounds fifteen shillings had nearly
caused the ruin of their'exalted hopes and sanguine
expectations!—(Laughter). He did not apprehend;
then, that their finances were very flourishing, when
the exchequer was so seriously affected by the four,
pounds fifteen shillings not being forthcoming. He
was quite willing to go as far as any other Gentle-
man in affording reasonable accommodation to the
Noble Lord, and if he would substitute the word
day for night, and two Magistrates for one, he
should give him no further trouble on the subject.—
He would now put it to the candour of the house,
whether the argument of the Noble Lord did not go
to prove, that night, and night only, was the proper
, time for entering the houses of persons suspected of
Ipossessing arms? He could conceive nothing more
dreadful or outrageous than breaking open the house
of a man by night—(Hear, hear)—unless he gave
admission to those who were employed on such an
occasion. He appealed to the Gentlemen of Ireland,
to those who had witnessed the sad effects of sueh a
system, who had witnessed scenes of horror at which
It tmanity revolted, and who had observed that the
effect of such a system was to accelerate, and not to
impede the evil. The Noble Lord, however, with.
that experience before him, came to them and asked
for the same system of measures. He was not ask-
ing too much, when he rniuired two Magistrates, and
the power of searching limited to the day. Without
the latter was granted,- he never would agree to the
Bill, as long as he had a feeling of Itutmnity about
him. It would be an outrage of all decorum, a dis-
regard to all the best feelings of -their nature, to suffer
such a clause to continue. To suffer the persons of
women to be taken from their beds at Hight, for those
were the places first repaired to in Ireland, and ex•
posed to brutal insult or lawless violence, was such'
an abandonment not merely of morals, but of do
cency, as he could scarcaly contemplate—( lear).--
lie was determined tbat he never would agree to such a, detest-
able measure. lie appealed to the justice and candour of the
House; whether he had no' shown a disposition to concede those
measures which he thought the necessity of the case required?
hut he was then called upon to grant what he never could con-
sent to surrender. :t was not his intention to use objections
against the imposition of a stamp upon low-priced publications,
but that was not enough, he must arrest to violate the sanctity of
the poor man's horse ! be must asient to a wanton Outrage on the
husband or the father, by exposing the wife, or sister. nr &Ugh-
ttr, to micjiaight inspection, or his concessions were unavailing—.
(Hear, hear, hear), Nay more, his opposition proceeded from a
wish to encourage the exertions of the Radicals. If to ititiet%
the feelings of common humanity, if to oppossf measures calcu-
lated to disturb the public peace, were proofs of such encourage-
ment, he must plead guilty to the cha-ige of Radicalism—(Hear,
hear). Ile should not trespass further vpan the attention of the
Haase. Without the adoption of tha Amendments, he could
never consent to agree to the Bill before the Committee—(The
Houourable Gentleman sat down amid loud cheers).
. Mr. THOMAS WILSON thought it would be advisable to
get rid of as much of the rigour of the Bill before the Committee
as possible. He was convinced that the People were generally
loyal and obedient ; he did not therefore see any necessity for the
extraordinary coercion that the obnoxious Clauses manifested.

Mr. WYNN contrived that a case was clearly established,
sufficiently strong to justify the passing o: the Bill, without the
.infendoients.

Lord GEORGE CAVENDISH said, that on •no occasion
would he have consentel to invest a Magistrate with so odious a
power as that of entering a horse by night ; and still less was he
inclined to give that privilege, when he considered to what length
'Magistrates had stretched their power on the 16th of August.
The question was then put, when there appeared for the
Arneadment.lo7—Against it, 215.
On reading the clause which enumerates the Counties to which
the Bill was limited, Mr. lisottouAsr asked Lord
whether he, as Representative for Westmoreland, could giie
any reason for including that County ?
Lord I.OWTHERthought itright to include Westmoreland, as
it lay be.ween the distorbed Districts of Scotland and Lancashire.

Mr. BROUGHAM—It .appeared then that Westmoreland
was to be punished, not for any mikes/ principles, but on ac-
count of its misfortune in being situated between Radical Pis-
tricts. The Noble Lord, however, hap?ened to be unfortunate
in his geography, few Dumfries-46kt was situated between the
I disaffected part of Scotland and Lancashire, and yet it was not
included,—(Hear, and laughter).
Mr. BENNET said the Noble• Lord had traduced the cha-
racter of his County ; and upon his authority the House was
called upon to pass this obnoxious law. Nu Member had so ca.
lumniated Northumberland.
Lord LOWTHER astur-d the House' that the 'rem of
training was going on In the neighbourhood of Crlisle. Co
great wrs the alarm, that within the last demo days, Aim. Lord
Lieutenant of the County had gone • down ft prepare measures
for the protection of the well effected..
Mr. T. WA LI.A CP corroborated the statement of the Noble
Lorct.—Thu original clause was then agreed to.
Mr. P. W OORE objected to the introduction of Coventry in
the Bill. The hlagistratas bad themselves testified the loyalty
and tranquillity of that City. Tile Bill throughout all its pro- I
-visions, wax disgraceful to its authors, and only another of the
laicise" fruits of the Pitt system..
The clause was agreed to, and the Bill ordered to be Repute&
Adjourned at Half-past One o'Clock.

Prince LEOPOLD visited the House of Commons
last night. His Royal Highness sat in the Members'
gallery, and was visited by Lord CASTLEREAGH, and
other Members, in the course :of the evening.—His
Highness was attended by Baron HARDENBROLE.
Mr. Hoanousa was arrested yesterday on the au-
thority of the SPEAEER'S Warrant, and committed to
Newgate. The following are stated to have been the
circumstances attending his apprehension:
Mr. Hobhouse, with his friend, Mr. Michael Bruce, was at
Ns. 1, New-street, Spring-gardens, about six o clock yesterday
evening, when a Messenger of the House of Commons, acting as
Deputy Serjeant at Arms, made his appearance, and produced
the Speaker's Warrant as his authority for taking Mr. Hobbouse
into custody. Mr. Hobhouse said he considered the Warrant
to be illegal, and the Tribunal which had condemned him un-
heard, and in his absence, to be also illegal; and that be refused
to obey the Warrant. The Messenger replied, that he had
brought a force with him to execute the Warrant, and the men
were in the house. Mr. Hebbeuse desired him to carry back
his refusal to the Speaker ; but the Messenger said be could not
quit him. " Then," replied Mr. Hobhouse, "you must use
your force, for I will submit to nothing else." Two other Mes-
sengers soon after made their appearance, when the first Mews-
ger, laying his band on Mr. Hobhouse, said, " Yon are my pri-
soner." Mr. Holahane then replied, " I must submit to force,
but /prowl eland We it SIONOTC, and desire you to inform
the Speaker thereof." Mr. Holdmuse was intased'ately takes
to Ncwiato by two or the Messengers in a hackney-coach.