Star.
London, England, 1829-02-13 00:00:00

Roman Catholics of the county of IYuldjr, piSying for
relief from thakeivil disabilities; and also that paftof
the money granted for education in Ireland might be
given to the Catholic places of education. TM" peti-
tioners complained that efforts were made in the cords
where the Protestants had theettief-ggibority. to make
proselytes of the Catholic children. This was a prat.
take Which could not be too Much censured. He could
Ositiceive nothing more contrary to every good princi-
litet or to the principles of the Christian Religion, than
•n attempt to make proselytes df children in ;heir ten-
der years. The reason was obvinde; aid he would pot
it to ever? person who heard hidr; how would they like
to bare their children proselytised to another faith? It
was'contrary to the doEtrines of the most divine of all
the portions of the Scripture—the Sermon on the
Mount ; for there they were told, is Do by
Others-as you would have them do by you;'' and, there-
fore. by converse, they were not to do by others what
they would not have others do by them. It was true,
he believed, that the Catholics had taken away their
'children from Protestant schools, where the parents
were under the apprehension that they would be made
'proselytes. He knew an ivatance in which this had
happened at Waterford ; but whin the Catholics found
there was no inch intention, all the children returned;

aid, therefore,' it was proved to demonstration, that
aim they had removed the children, it was because
efEritts had been made to debauch them from the

hills*/ their fathers; he called it debauching them, be-
ton a they were drawn from the faith of their fathers,
n .t by their own conviction, but by the undhe influence
wretched over them.

Tbegapdtion was from sb pariah of Bt.-Alargaret.pubils.
The Earl of LONGFORD did t beleve that any
eff iris were mode to proselytise- the Catholics. The
leachers were not only cautioned against not making
pr t•elytes as a put of &heir business, but everr Means
were taken in the power of the Gomm:us to Medicate
on three who supelititended the schools that no such.
system was to be pursued. If the Noble Viscount willed.
to ascertain the fact, and would allow him (Lord Long-
(KM to send him a copy of the last report of the pro.
c-e4lings of the S ciety, he had no doubt the Noble
Viscount would he satisfied.

Viscount CLIFDEN still thought that in some in-
stances there were pounds for these accusations. The
Ca ho'ics received assistance gratefully from those who
insisted on nothing against their reltgion. He then pre-
sented anather petition from the inhabitants of St. Mar-
garet's parish, Dublin, but this was against the Sub-
letting Act; in which he was not prepared togo the full
length of the prayer of the petitioners. Thep asked'for
t e repeal of this Act; and he b-lietred it ttquired
amendment, as t' places in towns and elsewhere. The
Noble Viscount also presented a petition from the Ca-
t•tulics of Killarney. for the repeal of the New Vest',
Act. As to this petition, also, he was not prepared to
go its full length ; but be thought chit Act also se•-
quired Amendment.
The Marquis et LANSDQWN had some Petitions to
present, praying for what vies commonly, but not pro-
;telly, called Roman Cwholtc Emancipation. Nothing
could h: Nether from •his intentions, than, on presenting
these f etitions, to trouble their Lordships with any ge-
neral argument on the question; but be could not allow
it to be stated, coining as it dick too, on the respectable
aliths.rity of the Noble Lord who had, lately spoken on
the other side ct the Hou.e, that nine-tenths of the Pen.
testant lauded ihterest • f Ireland were adverse to what
was c elle i Roma s C.tholic Emancipation. •
Vise' wit I ORTON begged the Noble Marquis's
pardon for interrupting hits; but he had not said what
the Noble Marquis had imputed to him. • He had said
that ihe Protestants were in possession of nine-tenths of
the landed property of behind. •
• The Marquis, of LANSDOWN, in return, begged
• pardon of the Noble Viscotint, eh •nt he had certainly
erniaapprehended. He admitted that nine-tenths of. the
land, d property were in the nominal posses, ion of the
Protestants; that they held by freehold to that extent,
he could easily belie% e; but the Noble Lord knew that
the Roman Catholics herd an immense mass of property
under the Piotestants. Besides what had appeared in
• evidence before the Committees of their Lordships'
Mouse, it bad since come to their knowledge that an-
nually, he might say daily, there was an increase of the
propetty held by the Roman' Catholics, which entitled
them the more to their Lordships attention, as the pose
session of the land always gave that attachment to coon-
I try which was always found to• prevail far beyond any
religious influence, except when the unhappy operation
. et exclusive laws deeply affected a numerous class of
the people. He was glad to find that the Catholics of
Ireland %ere every day committed more strongly to the
interests and fortune of the Slate. The Noble. Marquis
presented five Petitions—one from the County of West-
Meath. and the others from Swords and Malahede. in
the county of Dublin, and flow St. John's Parish, Lime-
rick, and Charleeille, in the county pf Cork. He also
preset ted a Peti ion against the Sub-letting Act, from
some past of beland.

IRISH RIPIRRSRSTATIVII NUM

Lord FARNHAM then. pursuant to notice, moved
th it the Petition of Lord Viscount Castlematne against
the return of Lord Dunally as a Representative Peer of
I eland be referted to the Committee of Privileges. He
did so becau e this was the first case of a disputed elec.
tinn of a Representative Peer since the Uni'n, and it
was desirable, therefiree, to proceed with circumspecs
. tint. He wholly evoidiel any allusion to the merits of
the cote; tut he could not help ceasuring the practice
follqwed by every Lord Lieutenant., of sending a letter
round on every election, stating tbat a contain Peer,
who, it was understood. had the Government interest,
was a candidate to 611 the vacancy. This was nothing
less than a breach of their Lordships' privileges, and he'
would treat it as such if ever it were again practised.
He concluded by moving that the Petition be reload
to the Committee of ,Privileges to-morrow.
The LORD CHANCELLOR perfectly concurred in
the propriety of the course suggested by the N..ble Los d.
The Menlo° was agreed tit. and the Committee ordered to Meet
tomorrow morning.
Adjoitriell et HA LV•IP:4I4 O'CLOCk.
notIOE or com MONS.
• -tevuotic mauls.
Sir JOHN NICHOLL presented a Petition from the Clergy
of the Diocese tat Elorhant against granting farther concessions to
the Roman Catholics. The Honourable alentb,:r professed his
opinions ppun the great question of Catholic Emancipation to
remain unaltered. Althitugh he gave his Majesty's Ministers
full credit for having conscientiously acted up to their prinelples„
yet he should feel it his duty to put forth every effort el lie
power to secure the Institution of the country, by law establishi4
inviolate.
Mt. LITTLETON presented a Petition from the Inbabi.
tants .Of Briddill, in Stifordshlre. againat Catholic Emancipation
and also praying for the Disfranchisentent of the Forty Shilling
Freeholders.
air. GREEN presented a Petition from Ulverston, in Lance.
shire, against Catholic Emancipation.—To be printed.
M r. G. H I Ll. pepented a Petition from Sir !lament lees, fbr
the supormision of the Catholic Auociation.-.Xia be printed.
Mr. BELL presented a Petition from the CI rgy ufibe Deanery
of Banbury. in the Diocese of Durham. against Catholic Emaniti..
paion.,-To.bcprit.ted.
Sir J. DURHAM presented a Petition from Nortballerten,
agatost Catholic Emancipation.-To be OMB& •

posszgsfea—
pada 011)41114i." la the t
.••••
in tits mat ellbsty.... iis •
LITH 'MI Del it • Peddesijkila
.--To be printed.
BR ;:i.
7t:2 a Pavia IN* the parish Odle.
elidireadtate the Odeps.—To Claw,
*full"(
Mr. CARTWRIGHT presentda .ppeetition from the
rows sf Werthempesw,Apinst Waite esasaeioa to the Catholics.
The Hon. Mesebeetaii, tbit tSe eftwsinitanei of Ciabollcianan-
gibs awe smaimmo is the epee& from the Throe, was
y swatter of ansiderelde weight with lint, as he /eh sure
tilt ohs wes{d let ant to Parliament that
was not abeempeakti bt at steurides. - He should there.
Illibearatt to en what those sea*itiss were Wiwi he Metered. hint.
Wien farther on the subject.
Mr.W. PELL said, that es that was the first oppoitenity
which he had had, he would say a few words on the
subject of the measure about to be presented to Parlia=
ment by his Majesty's Ministers. He must Confess that
he could not, as some Honourable Geotlearen had done,
look with nnmingled delight at the measure, for he had
always considered it as a dangerous invasion of the Pro-
testant Constitution of the country; but when he saw
the Members of his _Majesty's Government, who, from
the situation which they held, Mug be the kit informed
as to the state of the country, all -agreeing in recom-
mending such a proceeding ; and when * salthat
many of those who had lornserly been oppised to Ca-
tholic Emancipation were now prepped to withdraw
that opposi ion, he must say that be could come to.uo
other conclusion but that theGovernmenl,finclik them..
selves in a situation of danger, had cbctlen„that course
which appeared to them to present the least danger—
(Hear). His firm belief was, that they fripod:sheybad
but the choice of two evils left them—coocessiOn is civil.
war—(Hear)—and with respect to the latierokiotte,could
look at its consequences for a moment without. horror.
for the scenes of bloodshed which must necessarily 14,
prOdAced. In his opiniin any Minister would deserve
impeachment who could foi an instant look eves at the
chance of a hostile collision between ;he parties in Ire.
!sod, without an attempt to prevent it: Another thing
well worthy of consideration was, that it was not pos-
sible, in the present state of affairs, to form a Cabinet
expressly in favour of or against the Catholics: Uader
these circumstances, the only coarse lett for Govern.
gent was to consider which course out of three it Would
be best-to pursue. In the first place, there. Was unguat.
bfied concession, unaccompanied by any securities;
in the second, a continued opposition- to the Catholics
,without any concession at all; and-
_in the third, con.
cession with securities for the safety of the -Protestant.
Constitution ; and certainly it appeared to him that the
two former were so pregnent .with enischiefkthai 111 P:
thing remained but to adopt the third courao—ifeer I)
—and in so doing he wan satisfied Abet the Prealstint
E•tablishment would be better preset Ted; and
traiant ascendancy better seemed. than. by any other
course. He did net knew whether the H. use ought. trs
be so sanguine, as some -lion. Gentlemen were, maw*.
posing that Mitconeession would be.the Means Of con-
ciliating the Catholics from the-. highest to the 1011rf$
but if such shtsuld turn out to be the cafe, their. only
regret ought tiV.lso;tlrat the meiture kad.potboteit-rtr-
a led seoller.—(l4ol4
•'• • ;
The Petkion was then ordered. to h".printed., .
, Mr. CARTWRIGHT *0 Prfriniird two erner.l4lllll/11
against the Roman Catliolic-Claints. " t• • •
Colonel ROC HFO RT, on the qedstlon of dssl;
done being printed, said that be wu determined to ipeesw tbit '
measure proposed by his Majesty's. Whim, 4.9 itwu ises aspen
lu-mike affair cutting into their estates, piq_ pif Tata
their very bre sides. They had lost their iradti t te>t bets=
therefore, misfit be Compared to an otitigiVithett slsj
Liugh)-= but this ire a reason to matte these who.vrelisatilio-`
to the cause more reselate.—The Petition was then. opt -
printed.

1~

_ .. ' ,

. •• !.

,Sir J. ASTLEY preventk4 a Petition from thi Clergy
Archdeaceorysie Wilts against the eattlinli&Claiiii. •
Sir G. IWBINSON prisseted a MMus Throw-the
Sectetycif Northampton intavour of CadiolkSahasafiparker.
Mt. SUGHEN said, he - wavasmisaus, to state . that;
geoniids upon a Inch he fat disposed to adopt the sum
sentiments as those which bad influenced his Majesty's
Ministers in pursuing the course they had, relative to a,
subject certainly most interesting, and which at present
occupied the greatest share of public arention. Ifii,
was then, and ever had beer-, decidedly oppoSed to the
Catholic 'Association. Constituted as it was, he thought
it dangerous to the state and injurious to the 'lsom:id
prosperity of the country in which it existed. NI doubt
could be entertained of its being illegal, and he thought
that every-Member of the House ought to come for-
ward and assist the Governnstrit in puttingit.dowo.
Some *ere of opinion that, as soon as those grievances
under which the Roman Catholics laboured were.* an
end, the Roman Catholic Association would die a na-
tural death ; yet he clid not think that any reason why
they ought not new to put it down ; and, he was there-
fore glad to see a strong inclinatiou on the part of_tlte
House to suppojt his Majesty's Ministers in puting
down all illegal associaions in Ireland. He certainly
wdbld have been .rittich better pleased if,, in the year'
1825. means had been taken to pot down finally and
effectually those Associations. No doubt, had proper
means been resorted tom, they could haee hpenstippresvd,
for, should no other means prove snccsappl, the strong
arin of the law could not 14i1. *kb reference to the
Catholic Association, therefore, the proceeding, of
Majesty's Ministers appearedto him eaceedingly,ck
arable, and although he did not think that is .0401,
to precede, he was fully of 'opinion that it. shoul4
immediately follow the- granting of Catholic Ernancil
pation. What he would take the. liberty to. suggest
was, that first of all they shouldreqiier illegal the rail-
lag of any money in the shape of rent, and .put. a Bold
atop to those simultaneous meetings of bodies which
were continually taking place in Ireland, assuming to.
themselves the Administration of the Site, and ,
tempting to overawe the Government and tho# wool
were attached to it;, and also to p:event the meetings
which were fiecrieutly.ctinvened in the Roman Catho-
lic Chapels, where the passions of the people were con-
tinually roused. and themselves goaded on to the worst
of actions. As regards the other great question of eman-
cipation, he had been ever averse. to it, and could only
apse now to its necessity because he saw no other course
for thg safety I (Ireland. He had only one Word to add.
it was with great pleasing and satisfaction he heard.the
Right Honourable the Secretary of State 'tor the Home
Depattment declare to the Hou e, that the Houie i:oi 1d
be called upon to witness the future progress of eerie).*
Acts for ameliorating the condition of !!elarid, for im
Moving her moral character, and votiferring on her that
internal peace and happiness whicis.yhe had been so
long with ut. He could only say further, that although
he aas fully aware he should displease many "of his
'nearest and best It tends by tl.e course be bad pursued,
he should persevere in the discharge of that duty which
he owed to his country.
Mr. H. MAX%V4LL presented Petitions from the
Protestant inhabitants of two united parishes tu the
county of Cavan ; a .other from the parish of Rath-
drum. in the r °warp, Wicklow ; and another Iran the
parish of Rathdowne, in tie same county, against:the
granting of anyfurthsr
‘conces.ionb to the Roman Ca.
tho:icf. The Ho Meniter observed that the pee*
timers also prneif that.* eleitive fr anchi4 of Ryland
might be refs mad, so as to pretreat the Attire recur- ,

.
nue of those disgraceful seen* Islsichtsruk -piaci!
(be last genesal election; and alit) that die Itinnap C
Mai; AssOeiation usifibt be effictitall, sup ti.sii.l. With
reference to those ',Will prlyersiii Was Walt nein.;
'try for him to state thit they MIS his p I feet ecincnr-
-4104:1-Ordered to Ise if the tally. '', • - .
Lord BECTIVE said he had heard it stated that there
were but a eery few Petitions laid upon the table of the
House in favour of Catholic Emaccipation; he bad,
however, thirteen to this effect to present (torn one
county in Ireland—the county he had the hoot,ur to re
present. Upon this occasion he could not refrain from
congratulating the House and the country on the arrival
of a period 'est* i inch Petitions would, of necessity, bi
presented from a long-suffering nation. As obi dekplY
interested in the Catholic cause, he could not Sufficiently
eel res. the gratitude he felt that the Govern neat of the
country should entertain the view of emancipating lie-
landa measure of such undoubted, though of so long
delayed, justice. It waist measure which would-confer
incalculable benefits not only *upon Ireland, but_opon
the whole empire. The proposed measure for sup-
;messing the Catholic Association could not meet with
his approval, bi cause he did not consi.ter it by any means
accessary. The best way of potting an. end to that body
would be by ranting emancipation, by which they
would be at once dissolved. Much had been said against
that Association, but nothing had been said against
other Associations—the Brunswick and the Orange
Clubs, which he considered equally dangerous sod
equally illegal; end he hoped the Bill for the Suppres-
sion of illegal Associations would extend to these So
cieties. It had been stated that an Orange flag had
been seen waving at the door of a hr use in which the
nseethigs of the Brunswick Clubs had been held, 'and
he believed such was the fact.

..
The Petition bovine been brought up, •
Mr. G. MOORE said, he agreed with all that had
fullelfrton the Noble Lord upon the subject of Clubs
and Aisociations, and he hoped most earnestly that the
INlriow before the House would have the effect of sup-
ptesiing all Associations, and all Clubs arising out of
them, under the denomination of Liberators, or any
other name which would afford a reason for party vin.
lake or dissension. He begged, however, to say. with
lenience to the assertion if the Noble Lord upon the'
sibjett of the. fiat, that hi was not cognisant of the'
fact, and thit he thought the Noble Lord, upon
inquiry, would find himself mistaken. There was,
fie admitted, One house in Dublin—(Heal)—in which
the Loyal Protestants of Ireland held their Mertings
ender the name of the Brun-wick Club; but he denied
thdt they etier, on any occasion, prOmulgated a single
opinion which- Was calculated to disturb the i u.tlic
peak., or to excite the violate* or the hostility of thosi
to who.. they. were conscientiously opposed. 0,1 the
Iwitrary, the Monitions framed at their meetings, and.
the course thee had dniformly punned, might be ap-
pilled to as Wad of their desire to avoid every thing
'Mitch could creatiegitation. It was truly atid justly said
these clubs
imperioussere formed btPrOatesraanle 14ofrai;rillhat tecessitbyy. the
Was imperiously necessary that the P.'o estants should
combine together to' coudteract the machinations df the
Catholics, and that they shobld unite themselves in such
a manner as to exhibit that moral strength which they
possessed, in opposition to the Catholic Asstrciation. li
was necessary to show to the Sovereign, to the Parfla-
Mein of the country, and to the world at Lulli, this
the
Pt otaittaots• were determiried not to be put down or
''templed upon, and that they were resolved to the ut.
lkidst mint of their pbwer, to resist all• attacks upon
' that Constitution whit!) they conch ntioi,ly felt them-
litives bound to stappor.... 'With respect to the spirit in
Which that was done, he appealed to their pioceedirigs,
and ts the language of their public declarations
4 He appealed to the language of the Report published
' On the 4th of last November, as a sufficient proof of
that spirit of moderation and good feeling With
`'Which they opposed the Association. Under all the
provocations • under all the attacks which might have
well warranted retaliation, the Brunssiickers had din
played the most charitable feelings, and he appealed to
the Resolution as a proof of his assertions. Their ob-
ject in uniting was to remove those impediments which
lay in the way of Abele espressing freely the collected
sense of the Protestaets.wf !Wend upon the subject 61
the claims of their Catholic-fellow subjects, and they
had done so in a MOOD*, purely and strictly Constitu-
tional. The Hon. Member for Louth (Mr. L.• Postei)
had called the• Clubs • confederation!. They were con-
federations, meeting in an unity of spirit, an unity r f
principle. and an unity of good feeling, for the defence
'of their Constitution, which they believed, and folly be-
lieved to be essentially and palely Protestant (Herr).
. ' The Earl of BECTIVE said, in explanation, that with
1 respect to hie statement relative to the Orange leg, he had beta
assured that such was the fact.
, z Mr. B. RICE rose to deprecate all discussions in de-
fence of eny party, and he would, therefore, say .nothing
by way of comment on the speech of the Hon. Member
for Dublin,ixiePe to beg for himself ;and others who
thought With'hihr, shit their silent might not be con-
strued itiloblithility to reply to it. Be his statements
coiled order, they bad better remain unansoeied. He
wished, however, t.' make a single observation relative
tWthe 'statement of an Hon. Member (Colonel
.Roch-
' fdrt)„. That Hon. Member had stated
.thit forty-nine
fiftieths athe Protestant landholders, and five limbs of
di@ Protestant inhabitants, were opposed to Catholic
Emancipation. Now, this statement be (Mr. Rice),
meant to deny in the most unqualified manner. The
Right Hon. Secretary knew it to be incorrect ; the Noble
Lewd who was Secretary for Ireland must also have
known as much ; and it would be his (Mr. Riee's) duty
'booty to submit to the Noose a declaration to the ton
tray% containing the sign MIT'S of the great mass of
the Protestant Nobility and Gentry of that country. •
grinned KOCH FORT—I maintain my statement. and I will so'
farther, and eay, there is a majority of ooe handfed to one of the
Protestants of Ireland opposed to MtMne Rmancipation.
Mr. 'RANT would assert that the Brunswick Clubs,
or softie such institution's, hid been absolutely necessary
in Ireland. When the Protestants *ere, as they had
been, shatiefully deserted by the Government, and when
they had listened to such words as those of.the leading
character of the Catholic Association, that " the Govern-
ment was standiritte With Its arms folded,and that the
boys of 'TipPerary, erased With cabbage-stalks, might
now diiee the Protest's* Into the sea," it was then time
for the Protestants to lodk to themselves: and be might
'tell the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Rice) that several Pre-
testant Gentlemen, not averse to the Catholic claims,
found themselres so situated as to be compelled to join
Such clibs as the Brunswick clubs for the protection of
their property. He could not sit in the House, 'and listen
quietly to attacks upon an institution which had acted
constitutionally. justifiably, and in self-defence.
Mi. H. MAXWELL said his Honourable Friend the
Member for Dublin hid ' spoken in defence of the
Brunseick clubs because they hid, been attacked by
the Noble Member for Meath; and if' the Honourable
Meither for Dublin had not adopted' thit course, he
(Mr. Maxwell) should hate felt himself bound to have
states) his itintirisents on the subject. In all theAm.Mernt
, bear bid said he (Mr. Mixiirellyftilly concurred; bbt he

would extend such observations to the orange **tied., ae
eel as the Brunswick clubs. He was fir from beiog
&shame' to declare that I e was a membernf hod,. They
were.equally formed for the preservation of the Bliti..ft
C.n titution—,that Constitution ',loch. it eon'd appear,
his Majesty's Government were determined to dissolve.
And, wish that conviction, he wot.lJ take every op.
portunityand" ht. hoped *Very 000,11%0'4 vinaldtm
afforded him during the prese. t Session of Parliament
—of doing all he could in the Honte and oat of
House, as far as he could constitutionally, to oppnw
h is M aj .61 y'sGovernment,whote measures, he cOtteeived,
were calculated to bring tuin on the British C. nstitutie..-
Thy Petition* front cm toasty of 'teeth *ere thou ordered t;
Ile oil the cable. _ _

Colonel BAILEY presented a Petition in favour of
Catholic emancipation from the Roman Catholics red&
ing in the vicinity of Marton, in the parish of • Swine,
in e.e county of Yitk. The Hon. Member observed
that Iris opininnr upon this .nhject were well known.
Admiral EVANS presented a Petition against Ca.
thutie Emancipation Irons a parish on the county of
Wexford. The Hon. Member expressed his sat prise
that Wiser been considered recessary to offer an apology
for being Member of a Brunswick Club. while a Pm,e
of the I louse of Brunswick was upon tie British Thlone.
He was teddy and preut to avow himself a member of
this Bromiwick Club. He had lived long in Ireland,
end knew it well; and the course pursued there mode
it necessity for every Protestant to become a member.oo
the principle of self. preservation. It had bests stated
that all- the evils under which Ireland laboured arose
out of the Catholic disabilities; bet, if the metier
ware examined, it would be fonn I that. the present hie,
station which this country occupied arose( sat of emu.
istence of those very disabilities. lye, for his put. was
unable to say. why laws which were considered whole-
some on one side of the water were deemed dangerous on
the,other, and thetefore calling for such a cour•e here
as must compronsise the Cnns:i ution. There was out
way of considering the goiestion. in which it presented
a very extraordinary aspect. The whole population a
the United Kingdoms had been computed at tamp,
one millions.—of these sixteen millions were Protestants,
yet they fotind that the remaining five millions, their
interests, and opinions, were to-be the leading objectsof
consiattration. He was entirely at a loss to account ler
the reason Why, when there was such an inferiority of
;numbers and of property in the latter, there Arnold be
such a singular posit.on of circumstances. When he
looked at the wealth, education, and intelligence on the
one side, and the absence of them on the other, he was
utterly at a knit° account for the situation in which the
House was placed.. It was quite cleat that thnse she
in every respect constitutectthe Minority had reduced the
Ministers of. the Crown to their present course or prow
Jure.He was willirg to admit, how ever, that the force of
circumstances retrdered it impetati • e upon them to look
to the safety of-Ireland. He (Admiral Evans) had been
long a resident in that country, and possessed an intia
mate acquaintance with the inhabitant.; and here's
disposed to give Ministers every credit for their Dna
lives; but he would asset that, by the violence of
the Roman Catholic party, every Protestant was en-
dangited, and be repaid add, that his own life had
'bear threatened 'as an Acting Magistrate—he meant
threatened by dentineiattons by the Netts from their'
altars—(Hear; . hear,. hear). As to the measure of
emancipation, he could not but oppose it; for, if be
saw an enemy advancing, he would not consiaei it a
good way to defend himself by giving up his sword—
(Hear). On a former night an Honourable Gentleman
had agreed with those who thought the Catholic Asso-
ciation a nuisance, and the same Honourable Gentle.
man had agreed in lauding the. King's Speech,. which
charactesised juts dangerous; yet he confessed Min-
self •a member of that Association—Meat, brag:—
How the Honourable Member could recontile these
opposite declaratiois he was at h loss to conctivg.—
Wish respect to the measures about to be taken to sop-
press the Catholic Association, in their adoption the
spioit of the COnstitutiOn was certainly departed from,
and yet they did not go fat enough as to their object ; for
be would key that funds now existed at the disposal of
the Association, and if Government did not appropriate ,
'theie, they tvonld not have much right to congratulate
themselves on themeasure.
. Mr. VILLIERS STUART rose in eiplination. lb begged
to sit the Htionarabia Member right. lb had not called the
Catholic Association a nuisance—..not even the Bisitvisrfelt Chibs. '
- Mr. TUITE preowned a Petition from the Roman Catholic
inhibltants of the perish of St. Mary, Athlone, in favour of
Catholic Sonaocipadon.
Mr. STUART WORTLEY gave notice of a MB Ai ilia '
day for amending the Game Laws. • •
Mr. VILLIERS STUART presented a Petition from Capps.
quin and Butkntown, in favour of Catholic Emancipation.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a Petition front brisk
Ministers of three denominations of Dissenters reddiej in Loadm
and its neighbourhood, in favour of Catholic Ensancipatiesi.
Mr. HEN KY GR ATTA N presented Petitions from the Ewan
Catholic inhabitants at Granard,is the county of Longford, lay
from tie parish of Sc. Mary, Dublin, in favour at Catholic Om.
nation•
Mr. SPRING RICE moved for Returns respecting the mete
in which certain antes were Illkd.
Mr. BROWN LOW presented Petitions in favour of Catholic
Emancipation front the Parish of Knirary, in the county of Ar-
magh", from the Parish of Newtown Hamilton, in the same county;
froth the Parish of Armagh ; and from a Parish in Tyrone. Ms
Hots. Gentleman ako presented a Petition front the Parish of Ar•
maps far the repeal of the Sub-letting Att.
Abe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER row
to present. a Petition from the Archbishop and Clergy
of the diocese of Dublin against granting further co-
cessions to the firinonn Catholics. The Right Hoirsilro
ebbs Gentleman said that the names affixed to this Pti
titian belong 4 to individuals who were well known tot
be of• distinjoisbed learning, eminent piety, aid
ma;ked-Sttentron to thr discharge of all 'their ditties.
Having.bactihe honour of a lung personal acquit/I- 1
ante with them, he would undertake to say in acidities te
this that the petitioners came before the Haase witb• 1
out any animosity to*ards those whom it went le ' I
oppose, but With the laudable view of protecting the ;
interests committed to their charge. Neither were de/ I
hasty in presenting themselves before the House, this 1
being only the third occasion on which they bad combo,
Inte Parliament upon the qbestion, notwithstanding the
length Of time for Which it bad been agiiatej. They bad
used no terms of hostility or enmity either now or be-
fore in opposing the claims of those to whom they bed
hoed in the habit of offering both temporal and spirits/4
consolation. They had long forborne to express their
sentimenti upon the question; but having seen a tea's ,
direct hostility to the Established Church of be' !
land—having heard it pronounced a curse to then. 1
tion—they thought that they would have been ter
worthy of the sacred trust reposed in them if they
did not ask the House to protect the Church fro,
the machinations of the Roman Catholics. Sure ds
Legislature would feel anxious to protect their pie
vileges, and assist in the maintenance of them, it 11.
a request they were bound to make, and to Oki
Parliament was bound to listen. Formerly he (,_libt
Chancellor of the Exchequer) bad concurred w_ fr_itho'
petitioners in thinking that opposition to the CIIII°'
lic claims wait the best mode of preserving these
ptivileges; and, if he now pursued a different teem
it was 'from na insensibility to the impletance

Pidttelatt t
the couatr
evils; and
disunited (
**cited pub
than the ad
jetty's Mini.
planation of
a changer)!
65114 of di
toosideratia
Lord MI,
was deservie
grave and I
the Bight H,
the whole p
eonsideratio
bad obtrude.
It was natut
be watchful
•Legl.lature
ton. This
There was a
felt greater l
deed, if any I
take any stet
to subvert ti
however. refs
Friend (Lou
tern. It war
opposed to I
to hits that t

don than thl

by the Chan
rounded by i
but that did
calmest
Protestant se

vetted by el
miscalled--;
admission a
a dozen or
into the oth
teeth of thei

Pr otest ant I

out eaclusio
upon the bar
respect for tt
taking it in
Boorish in a
that a great
stitutions of
&rent aspect
the Gorernn

tecter.--Peti
The CHAN
dm from the
atainat Catboll
pretested Petit
Pariah,' of Tat

for tbosupprro
do tarty ohillir
Lord CLIO
labkiott of Use

otikstacipatio
Lord NEW.

and dlstriaof

MietModish. to
ninon; and fi
County of Caw

Sir EDWd

eyen noticel
bib band to
rf many Gee
h Veit he ha
to which he

in the maul
of meeting,
fur the prop
conaLferation,
there had be
More &meta
or in which

Mot

it was not e-
to be brought
be woola no
piceisn maj,i
by saying d
man would
tided that b

gtiartiaa was
Meeting was
'alive by the
Ireland, admi
ing. weighed
Meeting. fl
Government
when they be:
foreign cowl'
section. Um
were iendelioj
ing the npini.•
tion of hi% M
House under
which hi had

to cotteral thit
Of great and

talent was nut

• might say MCI
had thtimghod
ably and consi
wirib had laid)
with whose se.
candidly conic
rated-on b m
been dirtied;
perfect sincerii
*mad &dm*
p rtiOstJ to
trusted that it
had Iken antis

he had drop!)
rteyordacKlai, it
had oetateed
erosion. and
salting from
mud+ them a
*ad been 1441
been iriiluedco
Gentle
adjuitaient.
a reprerentatii
the Noble Lori
linVeratwia of
ialLerielrd
they had been
fatter, tahatt.
and !fa %%He
pi °pot eS lbelti
inward under
lit hatiappotei
be thought hits
Min% hirttelf
-eery until he he
ytii received.
to be distitttly

I to the orange societies se
He was far from being
;a member of both. They
'elevation of the Bi in
n which. it vi odd appear,
e determined to dissolve.
e wouLl take every op.
ry Ber
t Session of Parliament
he House and oat of.th
M
institutionally. to oppose
e measures. he conceived,
the British Costitutio”.
ifeseft were Oedered to

a Petition in favour of
e RonsanCatholics
in the parish of. Swine,
Hon. Member observed,
eject were well known.
a Petition against Cato
parish on the county of
r expressed his su prise
r y to offer an apology
rick Club. while a Prince
;upon the British Throne.
ow hit:melt a member of
d lived long in Ireland,
uric pursue) there merle
it to become a member-04
on. It had been stated
Ireland laboOted arose
es ; but, if
,the matter
uni that the present high
'spied a rote t ut of theca..
w. Ile, for his part, was
I were considered whole-
ref e deemed dangerous on
ig for such a cour,e here
iti.ution. There was or e
on.in which it presented
The whole population of
,en computed at tromp.
millions were Protestants,
tining fee millions, their
Abe the leading objects of
ly•st a loss to account for
wiii isehy an inferiority of
he !otter,_ there should be
:ircurnstanCes. When he
on, and intelligence on the
hem on the other, he was
the. +ittuition in which the
cite clear that those wfio
e minority had reduced the
it present course of piece-
,how ever, that theforce of
>erati•e upon them to look
Admiral Evans) had beets
[y, and possessed an
inhabitants; and. he. was •
very credit for their MO.'
that, by the violence of
every Protestant was m-
id, that his own life had
rig Magistrate—be Meant
by the Netts froth their
As to the measure of
but oppose it; for, if he .
e would not, consider it a
•by giving up his, sword—
an Honourable Gentleman
thought the Catholic Asti,-
same Hononrable tentle-
g tbe.King's Speeds, which
its; yet be confessed him-
sociation—Wear, heary.—
nber could mermen* these
is at k loss to conc: ave.—
!: about to be taken to sup-
La, in their adoption the
as certainly departed from,
sough as to their object ; fur
w existed at the disposal of
lament did not appropriate
mach right to congratulate

use hi esplanatinn. He begged
right. He had not called the
rot even the Bittoserftk Ctubs.
Ition front the Rontast Catholic
Mary, Athlone, in favour of

gave nodes of a Bill tor Ti
• •

Tesented a Petition from Cappo•
If Catholic Emancipation.
'anted a Petition from tertain
of Dissenters rending in London
of Catholic Emancipation.
rented Petitions train the Roman
On the county of Longford, and
Ind, in favour or Catholic Soma-

for Returns respecting the made
a.
I Petitions in favour of Catholic
Kilivery, in the county of Ar-
ian Raptilino, In the same county ;
I from a Parish in Tyrone. T►e
Petition from the Perish of Ar-
tting
Att.
the EXCHEQUER rose
he Archbishop and Clergy
shut granting further con.
olics. The Right florour.
e senses affixed to this Po-
ls who were well known to
ling, eminent piety. sire
scharge of all 'their ditties.
s long personal .acquaint-
derteke to say in addition te
ire before the House with-
those idiom it went to
ble view of ptotecting the
charge. Neither were they:
vet before the House, this
on which the/ bad come be.
lestion, notwithstanding the
ad been agitated. They had
If enmity either now or be-
of those to whom they had
both temporal and spiritual.
g forborne tuezpress tha► •
rt; but having seen a more
tablishect Church of Ile'
flounced a curse to the na.
tey would have been el-
it reposed in them if the?
protect the Church kilt/
oman Catholics. Sure the
Lions to protect their PP'
itintenante of -them, it was
d to make, and to which
listen. Formerly he (the
er) bad concurred with.the
opposition to the tette-
node of preserving -these
pursued a different ceutw►
ly •to the. impottonct

Pi dtelthnt rigfts; but from tt belief that the sitttttion of
• the country placed them .between the chance of two
evils; and he believed that the immediate evil of .a
disunited Government, a divided Legislature, and an
*ticked public, was likely to prove more prejudicial
than the adoption of the. course proposed by his Ma-
jerty's Ministers. He would not now enter into an ex-
planation of the particular reasons which had produced
a change upon his mind, but he would take the oppor-
tunity of doing so on some- future occasion during the
Consideration of the question.
Lord MILTON.saw that the Petition just presented
was deserving of the utmost attention, coming from such
grave and Reverend persons, but, above all, from what
the Right Honourable Gentleman had stated, that during
the whole period in which the question had been under
consideration, this was only the third time in which they
bad obtruded themselves upon the attention of the House.
It was natural that persons placed as they were should
be watchful that no stepi should be taken by the
'Legislature for the subversion of the Protestant teli-
ion.g This was not only natural, but smatter of duty.
There was no question in which he, as an individual,
felt greater anxiety, and he should greatly grieve, in-
' deed, if any step were taken by the House, or if he should
take any step, that would have the slightest tendency
to subvert the Prole tent religion. He could n"t'help,
however, referring to the Petition presented by his Noble
Friend (Lord John Russell) from the Dissenting Minis-
ters. It was imposible that those men should not be
'opposed to Catholic encroachments; arid it appeared.
to him- that they had taken a wiser view cf the ques-
tion than they had whose Petition had been presented
by -the Chancellor of the Exchequer. They lived sur-
rounded by the religion to which they were adverse,
'but that did not, perhaps. make them the best and
'calmest jndges of political matters. He thrught the
Protestant religion was too deeply rooted to be sub-
vetted by giving what was called—but, in his opinion,
miscalled—political power to the Catholics. The
admission of some Members into that House, and
a dozen or a score, if they reached that amount,
into the other House, would only be drawing the
teeth of their grievances. It was alleged that the
Protestant Church could not be maintained with-
out exclusion. Was not that denying that it stood
upon the bask of the Scriptures? He had every proper
respect for the Catholic religion ; but he considered that,
taking it in the mass, is was nisi the best calculated to
flourish in a free and enlightened country. He believed
that a great part of its evil arose from the political in-
stitutions of the country tit which it was. It had dif-
ferent aspects in France, Italy. and Spain ; and where
the Government was enlightened it partook of its cha-
raeter.—Petition laid ipon the table.
The CHANCELLOR orate EXCHEQUER preseined a Ped.
den from the Bishop of Elphin ad the Clergy of rbht ikeoese
itainst Catholic Emancipation. The Right
,Hoe. Member also
presented Petitions from the Inhabitants of Portarlown and the
Parishes of Tualatin and May against the Catholic Cairns. ands
for the suppression of the Atiociaticio, aid the disfranchisement of
the forty shilling freiholders.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Lord CLEMENTS presented Petitions from the Catholic in-
habitants of the parishes of Tartu, Clare, and Stafford, in favour
of' Emsacipa ion.
Lord NEWBOROUGH preshited Petitions from the parish
and district of Bangor ; from a Congregation, of Welsh Calvinistic
Methodists, In the county of Carnarvon • from the parish of Car-1
inseam; and from the bur:awes and inhabitant of a town in the
county of Carnarvon," ik favour oftbi Catholic Claim.
THIL MIT IPFTITIOS.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHB.ULL said, that he bad
. even notice. of his intention to present the Petition in
his hind to-night; with a View to the aieommOditinn
of Many GiotleMen who were interested in it, and he
hoped be bad tuceksied in his object. The petition
to which he had referred was from the freeholder.'
in the county of Kent; assembled at the usual place
of meeting, under the auspices of the. High Sheriff,
for the purpose of taking the Catholic Question Under
consideration. • With perfect justice be could say. that
there had beers no meeting on any similar occasion
More numerous, mince respectable, or more decorous,
or in which thy[ question to be determined had niet
*kb. i Mori uisequivoial decision. He knew that
it was not easy for any one party, in such cases,
to be brought to admit the success of the other ; end
be would not inter into any discussion of what the
precise mai"eit7 Wright be. He would content blame,
by saying that the High Sheriff, than whoin no
man would better have discharged his duties,
.de-
cided that his .(Sir Edward Knatchbull's) side of the
qtfeitian was carried by an immense majority. The
Meeting was called for reasons conceived to be impe-
rative by those who called it. The agitated state of
• Ireland, admitted by Government to be most alarm-
ing. weighed greatly with those Who called that
Meeting. They viewed the r.:aiholie AssoCiation as
Government viewed it, as dangerous to the State,
when they heard of money being forwarded to it from
foreign countries to create disunion and encourage dis-
affection. Under these circumstaneeethey felt that they
were tendon*• a great service in the country in elicit-
ing the opinit.n of the county Kent for the instruc-
tion of his Majests's GovernMeot. He addresied the
House under very different feelings from those with
which hi had hoped to Address it, He did not pretend
to coneeal that he addressed the House onder.teelings
of great and deep disappuintinent.• dis;i4oint-
relent was not occs.ioned by the perseveranee. .and he
• might say success, of shoe HonOtirable Gentlemen who
had theOughoilt adios atbd the CWtolit dams honour-
ably and consis:entiy, bat it aria needs-toned by arose
avbb had lately taken than under thir protection; and'
with whose reasons for so doing he was not satisfied. He
candidly confess d that the question itself bad not ope-
rated-on h m so strongly as the way in which it bad
been carried ; for, as he had opposed it throughout with
perfect sincerity•and with undeviating ptipaple, so be
*mid dictate, with ittriVl shicerity.'dmt, if tbe Measure
proposed to b": adopted wire cartied tenet h, be
trusted that it would be productive Of that goal -tablets
had bt en anticipated. If, in touching upon the subject,
he had dropped any thing that might le considered
reproachful, it would afford him one consolation that it
hid Oct-toted it a Paid!
,prelinsittety tb the general dia.
cutsion, and &nibs rid of the* warm dhsertradohi re-
Bulling from a hist approach to the question, would
.enable them aft, mar& to beet it with calmnesi. It
id been said that those whO thought with hilts hid
& been it, eased by the purpose of abstidonieg the Right
Hon. Gentleman who had introduced the measure of
adjustment. This had been insinuated by a Noble Lind
• teprerentatiie for Cambridge, altheu"gh he was sure
the Noble Lord did not mean seriously to convey an
imputation of the kind. They could not be said to be
iral.eitild by sbch Motives, and he would state that
they had been guided by nothing but the hope of a sate-
fatter? iesult. He had reflected much upon the matter,
and he iireld not in any Pay satisfy his mind why the
piopoteJ thelsnre might not as well have been brought
inmerd under Mr. Canning's Administration as now.
lit Irtd 'opposed Mr. Canning on the same grounds, and
be Thought himself tight in doing so; end he would
think Mellen fight its Opposing the Right Hen. Sem-
. -tary until he had obtained other information thin he had
yet reeeived. While be made this avowal tie begged iti
to he dlstilittly iftkletttbod that trelbilelleditlit meaning

being give* to his expressions that would imply a,
charge against thit Right Hon. Gentleman having, irk
the course lie bid taken, been actuated by loin Of
office. Still, however, he (Mr. Peel) might repel such is
charge. and however willingly be (Sir E. Knatchbull)
would bear•bim out in so doing, the change that had
Occurred could not but prbdbee i great moral erect,
and nothing could remove 'die (Newt that must follow
it. It had been said, -thaebecatise they were not likely
to be successful in. their opposition, they should not
continue it, but join in the general sentiments of the
House. He confessed that he heard such a doctrine
with astonishment, and that astonishment was not
lessened from the circumstance of its proceeding from
two official organs of the constitution—the Solicitor-
General for Ireland' and another Hon. Gentleman. If
this principle were to be adopted—if, on the first ap-
proach to a question, it might be given up on the plea that
there was no chance of succeeding—what would be the
issue ? Let him stypiese that the emergency of a case did
not eiist to the same extept as this, he would ask Gentle-
men would they be satisfied with receding from the Ties-
tion if they thought it would not be successful? Woold
they not rather return to it again and again? He was con-
vinced that they would persevere ; and so would he
and those who entertained the same opinions as himself.
He could, however, assure the Right lion. Gentleman,
that any opposition to be made to his intended measures
would net be mixed with any feeling of / faitii.us Oa-
tore, and should be entitely the :emit of a conviction
of the injury which the constitution would receise from
the admission of his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects
to political power. This was, he admitted, a question
upon which, beyond all others, it was proper to obtain
the sense of the people of the country at large.—
But, whatever steps may be adopted for the put.
pose, he (Sir. Edward Knatchbull) would be no party
to the excitement of any intemperate or improper
feeling which should only disoi b without enlighten-
ing the public mind. He should not he a party to
any proceeding, and 'he did no; believe that any
of those Gentlemen who entertained the same
opinions as he did upon the policy of the present
toe sores would have recourse to any measures of that
sort. A great deal bad been %aid upon the subject
of intimidation, and it had been frequently.and broadly
intimated that an object of that kind had given rise to
the conduct of him and his friends in reference to this
subject. He should not take_ upon him to account
fur the grounds upon which other Gentlemen acted •
but for himself he could. safely declare, that his opH
position to the admission of the Roman Catholicsi
to political poser was produced by a principle very
different from a desire or intention to intimidate hush
Majesty's Government. He should now say one word
upon the precise, form of the prayer of the Petition
which toiwas.about to have the booour of presenting
to the House. It was couched in the mildest lan,
guage that could .be adopted, and_ bail avoided all
topics which could give offence wow petty whatever.
It prayed little more than wbsa was .recommended in
the Speech from the Thr0n0,,,,4 prayed the House
to take care that the Promo* constitution of the
country should be preserved inviolitti end this prayer
was in entire accordance with one part of his Ma-
jesty!. Speech in Parliament. He wished to state,
that the debates at Penenden Heath .had not entirely
turned upon the question of granting political poser
to the Roman Catholics. The persOns who met at Pe.
nenden Heath, and had taken the most active past in
the proceedings them, entertained DO unkind of
no-
friendly feelings towards their Roman Catholic fellow.
Atbjeits; but he felt convinced that, if the Ronne
Catholics• should obtain politico( power, they would I
then possess the means of destroying those Protetel
cant •institutions which were the object of so muck
and so just a reverence with the .people of the
country. He wished to make one observation upon'
what had been said in reference to these petitions haw.
ing been agreed to before the publication of his Ma.l
jesty's Speech. It had been said that if the sub-
ject were to be again canvassed in those Meetings they
would not agree to such addresses as they had adopted
when they were in ignorance of the intentions of his
Majesty's Government. Now, although he did not think
that this kind of argument teat' eery cogent, and could
Produce but very little effecidyet he should express his
own deliberate conviction that On alteration whatever
had taken place upon the stesjectlinte the publication
of the kng's Speech. He wished to say one word
upon the subject of another petition which a Noble
Friend of his was.about to present to the House in the
altar's of the evening, which came hom some of the
freeholders of the county of Kent, and was in favour
of Roman Catholic Emancipation. He admitted that
in Kent. as well as in that House, there was a divi-
sion of opinion upon the question ; but, whilit be
made this admission, his Noble.7siend, must admit,
that the great majority of the freebblders were upon
the side of those who opposed any:thange of the law
which. should give political power to rite Catholics.
The meeting at Penenden Heath had. been, he would
admit, attended-by a great many persons eminent for
their talents, their rank, and general. respectability, who
were known to be the war'n'and zealous adeocitesl
of Roman. Catholic concession ; but if these Gentlemen
were unable to induce the majority of that mee.ing cal
embrace their view of the subject—if they wersonablell
to turn the Atler-tide iii their favour—the fact could
teed to nb intereinc*s hatevet ; but that the sense of the
majority of the freeholders of the county was opposed
to the concession (*.what was called Catholic Emanci-
pation.
Lord F. OSBORNE said he did not Site to defend the
conduit of the Right Honourable Secretary of State.
who had alteady *performed that task so admirably for
himself; but the Hon. Baronet had said that he saw
nothing in the circumstances of the country now which
would not also have justified the Right Hon. Secretary
in supporting Mr. Canning when he was Minister. It ap-
peered to him (Lord F.Osborne) from the progress of the
Catholic questtoo in this House, that it was one calcu-
lated to attract what he might call the unpledged talent
of the Houle. In the et vase of its prostate, it did attracts
two of its gteate.t and most power(u) advocates, Mr.
Canning and Mr.Plunkett. If we had ?old during the
lett debate on this question, when it a the support of
those t*o gieat men, that we shinild have to deplore
the loss of one, and that the other would be taken away
to another sphere of action, what,would have been our
expectations with respect to this question ? Should we
have thought that the majority for it would increase or
diminish? This *as a consideration why be should
not consider this question rested on the power and sup-
port of eloquent advocates,. but was rooted on the judg-
ment and season of the Representatives of the country.
To say that his Right Hon. Friend was not to judge and
act from the course of event., was not allowing him the
power of reasini,the tanks of which might be multiplied
indefinitely, but only the power of instinct, which always
remained in the sante state. He congratulated the House
on the line which the Right Hon. Genileman was about
to follow. He Was extremely glad at the coarse which
the Right Honourable Gentleman was about to pursue,
though he (Lord F.eoa.
'Tor if Be bid ittopted another,

borne) should have Mt it iris doty to lappet him, be
Medd a* bate done go with the sttiiir•cdrdiiitt be did
now—(Rear).
Lord CLIFTON had •st petition from the tame
county as that from whieluhe Honourable Baronet was
charged with one, but *foe different tendbocy, yet he
Was willing to bear witness to the respectability of the
numerous signatures attached in the petitiOn of the
Hoo. Member. To the Clergy he bore that respect
which was dna to the sacred profession. • For the Gen-
tlemen and Freeholden•of Kent who signed that peti-
tion he' had the highest: respect. He was inclined to
think that theoumber of the signatures attached to the
petition which he should have the honour of present.
ing, was not to be compared with the number of signs-
totes otythe petition presented bt his Honourable
Friend,• yet the House should not suppose from that
circumstance that it expressed the opinion of the county.
He whaled to draw the attention of the House to the
wording of the respective Petitions. The Petition pre-
1t rated by the 'Hots. Baronet was mild and inoffensive in
its object, and such a one as neithei be nor any of his
friends would object to affix their signatures to, were
they Sot aware of the amines, and the intolerant spirit
with which it was ushered to the Meeting. There was
mother circumstance connected with that Petition,
which gave a materiel advantage to that tide in get-
ting signatures, which we did not possess, by the resi-
dence in every parish in Kent of a Clergyman &wiry*,
of promoting the Petition, and it ii not to be won-
dered at that the poor freeholder,with his Clergyman on
one hand and his squircon Smother, should consent to
affix his signature to a•lsemion which contains not a
wovd with respect to Catholic eittanei;ortion• The Hours
liarefnit had mid, that though the Petition was draws
up before his Majesty's Speech was delivered to Podia.
ment, the petitioaers still remained of the same opi.
nion. He had no douht that was the case with many of,
them .but these. Wei i tircumstance which he wishe I
to mention to the Hons.. His Majesty's Ministers had
been. accused of taking the House by surprise; if they
had done so, they had also failed to teen that interest
Which they'might Have dote in procuring the object
they hid in view. In the dock-yard at Chatham two
hundred freeholder's .f Kent, who were employed
there, signed the Petition of the Honourable Baro-
net, which wciuld 'not probably bate been the case had
they knciwn ilitiaitiments of his Majesty's Ministers.
The Petition wils,;:boweves, signed openly nitbin
the gates of the dock-yard, is if the first Lord of the
Admiralty had been most decidedly opposed to the
Catholic claiess--(Heai) He did not mean to deny
that' the majority of the meeting was on.the side of the
Hon. Bart. but he could not agsee-salth the Hon. Mein-
befthit the Majerity -was insthensk. His party had the
adegistwge of order and rigulifity, teriik the other was
ellfpufusion, 'tattered in different parts of the heath,
an their lines broken by intruders, who had no buM.
nese there. Of all the cirmonstancht-which occurred
during the 'meeting, there was bile- which he partis
culeriy lanienreda—namely; that a Noble Friend of bib
should have been induced, et the close of the day, tit
pass an eologiens on an individual, .who, be confesstd.
veal- the last in the Whole multithdis who deserved is.
Thit individual went there, as he did to other please.-
with a mischievous intent ; sut what had occurred sine;
had Ashy cosiviaced these in Neat whowere inclined to
side with him, of his mischievous intention, and be
(Lord Claera)ilsoeghs 'hut be .would never shove' bie'
face then again. it had bees we. y much ihe'fashionto
talk baggy monist Brunswick Clean. He was disposed
towdopt aneibe.; faeguage toaatds them. He was veil
Muth obliged- ao the Kest Brunswick Club. ,and be
thought England' bed done more to forward the Ca-
theist-question lay taming the B. stn-wick Club. It had
opened the eyes of the people, •and larbilght them to
consider andeleliberne on the question. Ile felt that
the question wet/sanded oa justice and truth, and the
uniire it was coosidered; she mere was, it likely' to
spike clay:
Mr. PEEL *Allied to inform the 'Hen. Bir net, that
in the course he 'should pursue, lie should not be ba-
ilment by reproaches, in his public duty. He would
tell the Hon. Baronet that he would not condescend to
make
,any apology to him for the nature or for the time
of the advice he had given to his Sovereign ai one of
his responsible advisers. He had cont. acied. no rela-
tions with any man which could prevent him, when be
was sent Ter by his Sovereign, as one of his responsible
advisers, giving him his advice as to what couibe, under
ail existing circumstances it was'best fur the country
toparsue. 'He bad contracted no relations with any
Man or any party which could relieve him from his Oh.
ligations at giving that advice to the best of his ability,
and no man should charge him- with dereliction of
Ptinciple et inconsistency--(Heas, ilea.). lie would,
brit condescend to lone out for tansies 'He could claim,
to be 'ar independent a Meml-er of that House as the
Honourable Bar-net took him elf to be—(Hear, heat).
He bad given his advice to the King his sovereign and
feaster with reference to the existing state of affairs
to the best of lils.ability, and he Mould tell the Honow-
•able Baronet that he had taken the oath of a Privy
Councillor, Which compelled him to give his advice to
hit Majesty, and be hoped that he possessed filmic*
and strength of mind sufficient to enable him, when in
the closet of the King. to torot his past declarations in
that Hoese, to forget his past line of conduct; and he
also trusted that it would be found he had tininess to
meet any insinuations' which might be levelled against
him for so doing—(Hear, hear). The Honourable Ba-,
ronet said that he (Mr. Peel) might have adopted the
course which he was now pursuing at a different pe-
riod, when Mr. Canning was at-the lead of the Go-
vernment. He would tell the Honourable Baronet that
he had for 20 years opposed the most uncompromising
tesistence to the claidts of the Catholics—it was with
the atomic reluctance that he now consented to break
in on the constitutional settlement made in the year,
1688; bat he would also tell him that he was too Rue,
and, he would add, too Consistent a friend of the Pro-
testant interests and Protestant establishments, to push
bis resistance to a point at which imminent danger com-
nsenced--(Hear, bear). Sofa from being inconsistent,
he would say that he was the consistent friend of those
institutions when be submitted to personal imputations
in order that he might protect them from injury. Those
were the grounds on which he bad acted, and they were
grounds on which he had a right to act.. No man was
worthy of beitig a Minister who, when his advice was
required upoon measure of great national importance,
trimeld say, o I am fettered by the declarations I bate
illatit; I am not enabled to look at the present state
Of affairs; I must consult my friends and party. in
order to see my way." He confessed that these con-
siderations held out a powerful temptation; but no man
was fit to have a place in the closet of his Sovereign
who could not resist them. Tr 41 Hon. Baronet seemed
to be of opinion that :some sort of deception had been
hpara:tbeesedn
labia by the
by surprise.
Government,
sa nodwt,h.
ha to bwe
couldand h i s ft tends
Govern-
ment have proclaimed its intentions? Would the Hon.
'Baronet bevelled it resort to the newspapers? 'Was it
possible that Government could tell the world *hat
course it meant to pursue, Parliament not being sitting?

Hann may immeshed bee, reatkiltitistefltaititit
eery voodoo upeti *same. &SWUM What bid
hit:Owed at the dose of the kiiiitsa? He had always
contended that. no pledge had Wan gives at limit
period wh ch could bind any oneflut elpictatioese
certainly had liseen entertained whip) wet.' disap.
pointed. Why? Because Mr. Pitt pledged himself,
before he was perfectly certain that he would be
able to fulfil his pledge. In 1806 and 1607 it was no.
torioui that the sahse incotiveniente 'clotted from pie.
mature declarations. He would Sat, that not only
with respect to this question, bet all others, the Go.
vernment which keeps its own councils was most likely
to conduct the affeits of the country. to advantage.
He admitted to the Honourable Baronet, that it woad
have been infinitely better if he could have adopted
the course which be was now pluming in a priest*
station. He could only sae, that every thing It
was possible for man to do he had done; but when
the question was this—What advice will you give?
Will you advise the maintenance of the -present
state of thitigi?—Ceitilinly not. Will you advise
the tomatoes of an escluivelY Prtitestant G v.ru-
ment. offering eternal and uncompromisin,t resist-
ance His answer was that he could not, because he
knew that such a Government would fail, and in failing
would render every thing worse thin at present—(Hear).
If. then► be could take neither of those alternatives, hot
one course was lelt, to be pursued—to attempt to make
a 'safe settlement of die question by a united G cern.
tient. That costae impose I painful sacrifices on him;
but would any one have him personally shrink boas
sacrifices which he adeised others to submit ?--
(Hear. hear.) Without the hesitation of a moment he
determined, come what may. tes to nain and set an es.
ample himself of those sacrifices—(Heat).
Lord PALMERSTON said, that if hit Right Hon.
Friend had taken offence at any thing which had f 411” n
hose him on a preceding evening, he could assure hint
that he meant none.
Sir E. KNATCHBULL, in bringing up the petition,
expressed fits regret that the Right lion. Gentleman had
felt it necessity to allude to what had passed in such
warmth of terms. He was aware of nothing that could
have justified such warmth of expression—(Heat, hear).
To the Right Hon. Gentleman it belonged to advise his
Soveteign as he thought fit, and Ise doubted not he
Would be able to discharge that duty; but to him (Sir
E. Knatchbull) belonged the right, whenever he felt it
his duty. to question the public character of any Miiii.ter
—(Cheers). Ns consideration on e nth should prevent
him from executing that duty; and he only ho,.ed that
*hen called upon so to act, he shouid ever conduct
himself in a respectful manner towards the House, and
even towards the individual whose conduct be air signed
—(Hear). One word with respect to what had fallen
from his Noble Friend (Lord Clifton). He could assets
the House that he bad not asked a single indivichi I to
sign the petition. which he believed to etre s the free
and spontaneous sentiments of those who had attached
their names to it—(Hear, heal).
Mr. DUNCOMBE (Member for Yorkshire) said
that the language of the Honourable B itonet did not
at all warrant the warmth of the Right .Honureible
Gentleman. It was a sew doctrine to him (Mr. Don-
combe) that any Member of th .t House bad not a
right to arraign the conduct of any Minister. This,
at least, was not the doctrine of the people of Eng-
land, nor that which he, as an English Gentleman re•
presenting a large county, could consent to adopt.
He should always endeavour to cone u t himself towards
.Minsterserith the ut cost possible coui tesy,but he should
not comptostise his dignity as a Member at Parliatnet t
by sluinking from any examination of a &Laster'. coo-
duct which the circumstances of the case may justify
him in making. The Hunkurable Member for Kent
was so far hose imputing on why's( t. tees to shell gbt
Hun. Gentleman, that he speci liy observed that he did
not think these was any ground for such iml mations
against the Right Hon. Gentleman; and he(* Dan.
combo) believed that the country at large were as little
inclined as the Hon. Runnette) impute such motives as
the grounds of the Right-Hon. Gentleman's conduct.
Mi. Secretary PEEL admitted the tight of eves y
Member to arraign the conduct of Ministers, bet in-
'shied that the right was reciprocal; and that if Mem-
hers hid a right to call the M nisters to account for
their measures, the Ministers bad also the sighs of de•
fending themselves, and of explaining whatever may
appear tutptopet or iticoniistent in their conduct. Olice
for all he shntdd say, that he bad now esi late ed .he
rounds oftis conduct. and of the Course which he had
taken on this occasion, and he should lot the future mix
no more of personal feeling with the consideration of
this great question; and he could not help regretting
that he had been betrayed into some degreeof was mth,
,which was ill adapted to promote the cool and calm in-
vestigation of the important measures which were to
come under consideration, and which was an inlrAction
of a rule which he had impo eJ upon himself for the
regulation of his conduct in reference to this important
discussion.-1 he Petition was then brought up aid teach
DA NORROUS ASSOCIATIONS IN IRELAND SUPPRESSION

!ILL.

Mr. PERL moved the uscond reading of the shove-Famed Din.
Mr. HOBHUUSE said he under stood from the st. te-
meat of the Bight Hon. Secretary on a former night,
that none of the provisions of the Bill o ere ioresid d to
be permanent; but he found, however, on resaing the
first paragraph, that that part of the Bill which en-
acted the suppression of the Catholic Assncravo I wu
intended to be permanent. He wished for some iss.
formation with respect to this apparent contradiction.
If his reading of the Bill were correct, he should feel
it necessary to oppose the measure, which however he
would be reluctant to do, because be felt, in env
mon with Honourable FS ends around him, a most
earnest wish not to put the least ob tack in the way
of the •great measure which Ministers had in con-
templation. When he was informed that the late Lord
Lieutenant of Ireland had declared in his place in Par-
liament, that though the Association had been under
his nose for six months (that was his expression). Itemise
no danger, he must declare, that having always pin.
tested against any thing like an infringement of the
Constitution, which this Bill was on all hands allowed
to be, he would have strenuously opposed the present
measure, were it not to be followed by another of such
vital importance. He differed from the genet al opinion
with respect to the character of the Catholic Asscria-
Lion, and he also differed from the opinion cape red by
some persons with respect to other popular As,ocirtior s
by which it bad been opposed. • Toe passing of the
promised measures of
,amclioration would have rer•
dered such means unnecessary. He could not see that
Ministers were faidy char*eable with any detelscuott of
duty; they bad deemed the safety of the country the
paramount duty—{Hear). As..co the charge of inti-
midation, the Ministers bad only yielded where they
ought to yield —they had been intimidated by .ite fear
of doing wrong—.(Hear, hear). He trusted the the
Ministers would make the measures Governaient..thea-
mires, and that they would manfully press them ramrod
as tech—(Hear).
Mr. BATLEY declared his intention to vote for the