Star.
London, England, 1816-02-20 00:00:00

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'• . ' .;,t wain the,pideof sncial• order ,• o*
F. the sooeld be punished Piss het faults by a
.. • shia dismemberment of her territory ? the
• • world have been, that in the latter case
~,„- - have had the whole of France against us.
7-Alarki aster of France had so altered of late years
i;s ive-her a vast predominance in Europe, no
Oak, my that the power of'Great Britain had
i
rea d n an equal proportion, which
the
nJew se i
of reducing Franceh lass pressing or
Goat Britain, in fact, a no interest in
1.• Francedismembered,.. nor was there any
dismemberment could prove
... ont suh
41. There was no man who did not feel that
wire Of Russia had taken a start which made
~ow of France appear under very different fee-
was. But he was pre-
to
what it formerly
.
to say, that nothing wont_ dhave been
more fa.
ae general interests ofEurope than to have
to r•
the question to have been agitated respecting
teined°O that
of France. He thought the pro-
en was, to let France preserve her
coanderati
as a nation. In the station in which
ter
stood, there was not a reasonable man who did
07 that she owed to Europe a security against
worlitn" of what bad happened. But at the
time, we were called on to tranquillise the
and not to parcel out states, under abstract
tithe balance of power, at variance with the
of the people, and which might have been
•
.; of a new contest. That course was alone
• which gave us a shield for our own security,
aka us a faculty to adopt such a system, as
- cooler a benefit on the virtuous people of
There were two ways in which the Allies
• have claimed indemnity ; they might have de.
. , a large pecuniery recompense, or have made
pine abstraction of her territory. It had been
that the pecuniary levy was the most revolting
the people of any thing that could have been adop-
nothing, however, was farther from the truth.—
washardly any portion of the people of France
would object to part with their money. ( eflaush.)
state of their finances admitted of their paying 1
kart' contribution*; for on looking at the situation
France, as compared with other nations, we shall
that she has derived from her profligacy an ad-
, . e which other nations cannot equal. By the
: .of the Revolution she had been disencumbered
her national debt, while the plunder she had take°
other nations had placed her in a situation of
.. - affluence than any other in Ettrope.—( Hear,
~hear.) He should here digress to say a word or
Go the Imperial Loan, which spas not remotely
ed with the topic on which he was speaking.
nom had plural:red Prussia at different times of not-
than 1200 millions of livres, and Austria of even a
. proportion—in fact, these two monarchies were
reduced, that if they were pressed to refund the.
~ y advanced by Great Britain, they would not
able to put their armies on the peace establishment.
ing to the subject of France, the Noble Lord
.. ... ~ that nothing was more repugnant to the
-lags of the people than the idea that they were
bedeprived of territory ; and if a partitivn had
.on to:solved ipon, he was convinced that it would
ot have hem in the power , f the Allies to have per-
. his Chrittian iajesty to accede tosit. There
however, no dii:erence of opinion amongst the
lies, that we ought not to deal with France as a
- , tiered country; it would have been a measure
at with the greatest danger; and he would say,
dralddespise that Frenchman who would not have
.•,,,. indignant at the partitioning out of his ter-
: , , sad who would not feel that the state of
ma before the Revolution, was the state in which
hew was bound up. Where was the English-
. who would not fight for any of those possessions
contributed to the power of the British Crown?
pretested therefore against all dismemberment,
'• did not affect the substratum of the military
- of France: any other process of dismember-
. "old have been injustice. For if any large
of her territory had been taken from her,
oast have devolved over to the neighbouring
' - i this would have been a source of perpetual
d, and when the difficulty of bringing back
Herat powers of Europe to the aid ot Any other
was considered, lie must be a presumptuous
, • • , who could argue that they could come back
give protection as often as any other State might
their assistance. It was a fundamental maxim
France to be involved in war with the Low Coon-
sad whenever this was the case, the burthen
Is all upon the shoulders of this country. We
therefore taken care to secure the dominions of
.Ling of the Netherlands as much as possible
any attack from France. By the precau•
7 measures, however, that were adopted, there
every reason to hope and believe that France
not make any hostile attempt. We had
',OOO of the best troops in the world, under a man
• was justly and universzlly admitted to be the
' • teat General in the world ; and as France had
• . the danger, it was but right that she should
the price for watching over her tranquillity.—
the whole, be had good reason to believe that the
• would prove secure, even though some chew
hostilities might be made by France in so long a
• is the life of Man as five years. I: would have
no means been wise to have taken the line of
- - from France, and annexed them to the
tries to which they were eoroiguous. Such a
' would have been of no advantage to these
; it might have been resisted by the French
eminent, and might have created mare danger
.1 new war than the leaving of them in the posses,.
of France, after the Allied Troops should be
" . vb. -It was the general opinion in France,
10e had never erred more than in extending her
• As to the territory of the King of the
. . .1, he would say, that he was stronger
' his own frontiers, and by the improvement of
Messes, than he would have been by the pos-
. of those fortresses that might have been taken
_Frame. The future state of Europe depended
imp being permanently settled in France, and
k_Would be so by not suffering her Government
he thrown backwards and forwards as it had
Kai• Allies had preferred the Government
it._lll° ng, because it seemed to offer nothing
,L 7 !as likely to shake the peace of Europe. It was
Illistore a deliberate purpose of the Allies, when
Concluded the Treaty of the 20th November, to
away all cause for jealousy, and they bound them.
ives
to re‘lan the fortresses, with the few eacep.

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trout specified in dui reenty.-nt tlw end of five years.
But they did not bind ttlemeelve; re• tore them to';'
any but the' King'. lawful heirs and success Ors I su
that if the present Di nasty shoulu by any 'Mean' be
subverted, we did not pledge outolves to the-tally
and absurdity of giving them up to any persons who
might be at the head or the Government at that
time ; but to look at what might take place, and
judge whether it would be necessary I o impose sonic
new restrictions. • We were pledged to support the
King of France, but not to support any new Revco•
lutionary Government. He was satisfied that greater
securities for the durability of the Peace had-been
obtained by the course pursued in the late negocia.
tions, than could have been dbtained if France had
been pushed into concessions with a more violent
hand. If the King had not re-ascended the throne
on the principle that the virtual integrity of France
should be preserved, he (Lord C..stlereegh) would
have had the most serious doubts of the continuance
ofpeace. He felt that in that case it would have been
much endangered by the irritated feelings of the
French nation. But while due attention had been
paid to this. consideration, the Allies had not failed
to require what they thought adequate securities for
the future repose of Europe. These, he trusted, it
would be the opinion of the House they had obtained,
when it was recollected that five fortresses of considera-
ble local importance had been ceded by France to the
King of the Netherlands, and that the destruction of
one which was. of importance had been insisted upon.
Had the arrangement made for the future repose of
Europe stopped here, he should have thought it in-
complete. Li his opinion, however, the other condi-
tions which had been made, combined with those to
which he had just referred, would place the balance
of power in Europe on a better tooting than it had
obtained since the time of Joseph the Second. France
was to pay to the Allies 700,000,000 of byres. Out
of this sum, soo,ogo,ocx) was to be expended for the
erection of strong plades to defend the Low Coun-
tries, which would thus be placed in a better state
than they had been in for the last fifty years;. and he
had no hesitation in saying, it was a much better
game for England to play. to support the King of
the Netherlands in his own territories, than it would
be to maintain his authority in places taken from
France, which that nation might reclaim whenever
she felt her military power suffi.iently revived to
enable her to venture on such an undertaking. He
WAS anxious that the question should rest on this prin-
ciple, that England should rather take upon herself
to defend the Netherlands than • to hold the strong
places taken from France, some of which it must be
diicult to maintain, and some ( Lisle for instance),
it must be obvious to every person who looked at
their military situation, would be rather an incum-
brance.than an advantage. He would now say a few
words on the subject of the sacrifices of a Incuniary
nature imposed upon France,* in satisfaction of the
views of the Allies. Looking at the operation which
these would have upon the French Government, he
certainly considered what had been done in this respect
was politically the most expedient course, to neutralise
in the first instance, and ultimately to remedy that
military spirit which had proved so fatal to the repose
of Europe. If we drew from the French those re-
sources which might sustain a military force, and ap-
plied it to the support of our own, kept there for
the purposes of arrevilknce, we took the best means
for preventing the recurrence of those evils against
which it was the object of the Allies to guard.—
This he thought the wisest policy that could be pur-
sued to accomplish the end in view, and that which
would be the least offensive, as it would be the least
injurious to France herself. This persevered in for
five years, be entertained sanguine hope., would esta-
blish the tranquillity of France, and with it that of
the rest of Europe. But he was aware that it was
coteraon for Gentlemen to say the contributions
which had been imposed, France could not and would
not pay. In answer to this he had in the first place
to slate, that she had already made very considerable
payments, and these under circumstances of peculiar
difficulty and embarrassment :—in the second, he
would observe, she must pay them er became bank-
rupt in national credit :—and thirdly, it was to be
remembered, that it she failed to do this, we should
then stand in the same situation in which we had
stood whir hi the opinion of some Gentlemen we
ought to have insisted upon other terms, founded
upon permanent cessions of territory to be made by
France. It was now to be considered how the pay-
ments could be made by France, and what would be
the effet of them on her trade and resources ? In
speaking of the arrangements which had been made,
he wished it to be distinctly understood, that when
he spoke of them as being wise, he did not give them
that character because he thought them ruinous to
France. He protested against this doctrine altoge-
ther, as he WAS satisfied no arrangement could be
wise, that carried ruin to one of the countries, be-
tween which it was concluded. He believed if both
, parties had not an interest in carrying any treaty
negotiated into effect, it must evidently tail. In
miscalculating the point on which it could be acted
upon witli mutual benefit, the advantages contended
for on either side were lost. He believed France
could pay the contributions which had been de-
manded, and that she intended paying them.—
France, he maintained, was as greatly interested
in seeing that military spirit subside which had
prevailed within her territories so long, as it was
pitssible the rest of Europe could be.—(Hedr.)—
If at the end of five years she should fin/ this to have
been materially—abated, and her civil energies in-
creased in proportion, the change thus produced
would be not less beneficial to her than it would
prove-to her neighbours. The contributions deman-
ded could be met by the revenues of that country
by the sale of crown lands, by the augmentation of
the capital of her national debt; she might kipeaabled
honourably to fulfil her engagements without bring.
on the State any extraordinary calamity. France,
it had been stipnlated, should pay as an indemnity to
the Allies the sum of seven hundred millions of litres
(twenty-eight or twenty-nine millions of pounds ster-
ling) ; but this was, comparatively speaking, a very
inconsiderable payment,
when put by the side of the
other expenses which the late
,war had throws upon
her. In addition to this, twenty-nine millions, France
had engaged to maintain an army of one hundred
and fifty thousand men belonging to the Allies for
Lye years. The expense of each 1600 men could
' not be estimated at less than one million of litres per,
annum t this army, therefore, would cost France

. . .
yearly the suns of nee httnifred and fifty
rl? om this' it would be sten the sums which France
'would have to pair in live years for the maintenance
of this aimy, would he seven hundred. and fifty mil-
' boas of livres, making, with the seven hundred mil-
lions Riven to the Allies as an indemnity, a total of
1,450,000,000 livres. By 4 Convention concluded,
the French Government had engaged to pay 120livres
n man (about ses).on the whole force of 11,040,000
men which had marched into France to conquer peace,
and the last payment due on ihisacconni lied been made.
—The expense of this vast force-had been borne by
France for five or six months, and this, added to the
sums which he had already named, and other
charges which had been thrown on her, brought the
total expense of the invasion which she had sustained
up to a sum of not less than 2000 millions of livres
about 80 millions sterling. At first many had been
disposed to say such a burden was mire than France
could bear. For this idea there was no good founae-
tion. She had already made very considerable ad-
vances, and he donbted not she would be able to pay
the whole, and doing this be believed there would be.
as little reason for regret on the part of France as
there was on that of England ; the exertions which
this would call for, would not destroy the resources
of the country, though for a considerable period, it
would put it out of its power to make any great mi-
litary effort. He thought it was not necessary for
him to go into any lengthened argument to induce
the House to look with favour on that system which
had brought the late contest to so desirable an end.
The House could not feel a ikile astonished, when
they compared the question brought before them
that night, with those which they had frequently had
to discuss from time to time, through many a me-
lancholy ye-AL.—Vitae, hear, ar.) When they re-
, called the many debates which had taken place
on the evils with which this country had been
menaced, from the successes of France, it was a
proud and gratifying reflection, that on 016 day they
were occupied in considering how far the preserva-
tion of that nation, among the greet Powers of Eu-
rope,. was political or just. The House would also
feel it to be an auspicious circumstance, that that
great alliance which had been formed by the four
great Powers of Europe most opposed to the politics
of France, that that union of their councils which
had been so long a desideratum, which so many ef-
forts had been nude to accomplish without success,
and had at last been brought to bear with such happy
effect, now, at the conclusion of the struggle, existed
in all its former strength. He firmly believed, that
had the Sovereigns been separated instead of being
together on the field of action, the great business of
the war could not have been so happily conducted to
its termination. On this, in a great measure, he Was
convinced the salvation of Europe had depended.
Had they been apart, circumstances had (exerted
from day to day, which, in all probability, would
have shivered the Confederacy to .toms, had not the
Sovereigns been on the spot to meet, sipd by conci-
liating opposite interests, to overcome them. Another
grand feature in this Confederacy, .which must be
contemplated with feelings of general satisfaction,
was the spirit of moderation and temper which had
distinguished-it, and which, on every great ques-
tion, had enabled them to carry with them the
general feelings of Europe—(Hew, hear, hve).— ,
The character, which it had sa well deserved, gave
the world confidence to look up to it still for protec-
tion, and discountenanced the apprehensions which
had been too readily taken up by the Gentlemen op-
posite, of their having it in contemplation to make an
attack on the civil or religious liberty of .inv country
not in alliance with them. He deprecated that dis•
position to arraign the intentions of the Allied Powers,
which had recently been manifested, and contended
these efforts to create an alarm, unfounded in the
first instance, were likely (if any thing could be ex-
pected to
.produce such an effect) to originate tin
evils the existence of which those to whom he refer-
red affected to deplore. The friendly disposition of
the Emperor of Russia towards this country had been
particularly manifested in the course which he had
recently taken with respect to the lonian Islands.
This supplied a refutation of all the statements which
had been circulated to awaken a jealousy against
Russia on the part of this country. He (Lord Cas-
tlereagh) was not an advocate for confidence in the
goodwill of any great Power, so far as to dismiss vi-
gilance, on the part of Ministers but at the same time
he felt it necessary to throw backthe charge which had
been advanced, lest it should lead to that state of things
which had been( without foundation) supposed to exist.
The lonian Islands, he felt it his duty to state, had
been placed under the protection of England, in the
first instance, in consequence of the great wish of
pressed by the inhabitants of them, that such an sue
'rangement should be made : and next to this, they
had been so placed under oar protection in compliance
with the desires of the Emperor of Russia, who had
greatly exerted himself to promote this object. He
wished, on this occasion, to put at issue the arrange-
mints which had been nude to close the late war;
these the House could discuss without going largely
into the merits of what had been done by the Con- i
gross of Vienna, which it might be well to leave
open for consideration on a future day. That on
which he now called upon the House to decide, was
on the question whether, under all circumstances,
Ministers had done their duty in concluding the pre-
sent Treaty of Peace? He renewed his congratula-
tions on the perfect unanimity and harmony now sub.
sisting among the' Allies, and on the happy effects
which these had produced, and. which still seemed
likely to flow from them. If any thing were dcne
by this country which at all went to separate its inte-
rests from those of its allies, he was convinced that
we should not only give up the advantages felt
from their influence, but we should do that
would tend to keep up that military spirit in Europe
which it was desirable to see lowered.-..(Hear, hear).
Though the other Powers in Europe had not been
thrown into those monstrous creations of military ef-
forts which bad been witnessed in France, still it
could not be denied that there existed io them a war-
like spirit which could not immediately subside; and
he went along with those on the opposite side who
were of opinion, a perfect state of peace could never ,
be obtained till that spirit sboyld he much abated—el
(Hear, hear, hear!)—till armies again became uni-
versally the creatures cif the State, instead of States
being (as they had been seen in some instances) the
'creatures of the armies—(Hear, hear, hear.)—A. re-
duction of the military force of England could take

.
place sooner than a disarm reduction could be et. -.
ted in other countries; but if we were to be preeee-
tate in putting this measure in operation, while ell
the rest of the world were in arms, we should do that
which would be likely to perpetuate that system
which we wished to see changed, and which. if a dite
Iferent course were pursued on our • part, we might
reasonably hope would not long be upheld—(Near!)
He concluded .by moving an Address teethe Prince
Regent—To return' their sincere acknowledgments
and thanks to his Royal Highness, for the important
and satisfactory communication which he had made
to them of the Definitive Treaty of Peace, coliclueed
with his Majesty the King of France and Nevsrre,
dated November 20, 1815, together with the various
arrangements by which the blessings of peace had
been restared to England. .It set forth, that teey
viewed 'with equ3l admired in the unanimity and
vigour with which the Allies had promptly %incest--
vetted their forces against the common enemy, in the
late campaign, te which, under GOD, they attributed
the early and successful termination of the war. It
' proceeded to set forth their joy and satisfaction at
the prospects thus opened to the couktry, and ceu-
grattilated his Royal Highness on the herinciey and
unanimity which comanued to subsist among the
Allies, under the protection of which they trured
Europe might confident' • look for consolation for
their exertions in ware iu the enjoyment et Pace,
and for advantages commensurate with their learner
sacrifices ; and, finally, .it assured his Royal Hieli-
ness, that 'het_ House would most cordielly latioue
to maintain the Peace thus happily concluded, ate'
to cement and sustain the alliance by which it bad
been gloriously accomplished. •
Lord mILToN, in delivering his opinion upon
the subject before the Heuse, was ready to admit dial
in many of the sentiments and in many of the maxims
expressed by the Noble Lord in his speech this night,
he undoubtedly concurred. That Noble Lord had,
however, travelled into a good deal of extraneot.s
matter, which was not, upon the present queoion, Ab-
solutely necessary for the consideration of the Heine.
'['bough it had been attempted to shew that it was a
question merely upon the simple Treaty last cunt lu-
ded between this country and France, and that it did
not involve a consideration of the Congress at Vienne,
he did not see how that Treaty and the Congress
could be separated. With respect to any egreemeets
entered into with France, their value cauld be 'appre-
ciated according Cu other stipulations made for the be.
nefit of Europe. The H•else, was, therefore, celled
upon to Miro its judgment of the cenduct purseed by
the Noble Lord, nut only in the mety he had allud d
to, but of teet coodect which preceded this event es.
The machinery which had been used upon this urea-
eion was nor that upon which the Hettae cueld ex-
actly decide, as they could 44 see it" only as i w .se
44 through a glass dark'y." During a code der Coe;
portion of the Noble Lord's. speech he lied dee t
much upon the unanimity of the Allies—he had tale-
cored forth the illustri:-•us deeds of Oen- azelees,
bad she,wn . the great coincidence whi:.h hid .el;sie.l
between the diff.irent Powers of Eurepe, whets they
directed their efforts to one object, toe peace Ind se-
curity of Europe. In all the t :conliums bestowed
upon that great General, by whom they weir ev n-
tu illy led to victoty, lie (Lord hltiton) most h, r.
tily occurred. thought te•dr:h:i.,s the N ale
Lerd had made his case too g:;od. He had Jae ibed
the :once against France at 1,110,000 men, besides
those weieli wen: in reserve, am minting in the u,,01e
to 1,500,000 men in arms. Then, v.•:: it had here
the result of all this mielay force, :me .hose peat
exertions, so honourable to the nations of Europe and
the Councils by 'Whom they were brought into action I
Though he concurred most fully, perhaps 110 111.10
more fully, with those observations made upon tee.
military deseotism cif France : but these were the 04-
, jects of former statesmen, upon whom the Ne;:le
Lord appeared to look down with an air of superie•
racy. The Noble Lord seemed anxious to perauade
the House that the only object to be attained was, that
of putting an end to the military system of France.
He would nut deny that the military character
which France bad assumed, was one object to which
the united,exertions of Europe were applied, but he
was also extremely doubtful it the means employed
had been adequate to the purpose. He would leave
it to the consideration of that, how far the means used
werelikely to occupy the reflection and the feelings
of the French nation. What must be-their feelings
when they saw die military force- of England and
Russia in possession of the line of their for tresses ?
When they saw the British and Russian flag flying
upon those fortresses, where the ploughman could not
go with his ploughshare to the field without witnessing
those armies which were arrayed against his count') ?
Did the Noble Lord imagine the contributions to be
paid by France would create no regret in the n Rion ?
Did the Noble Lord trial[ that the tearing down of the
territor,- of France was the only injury that ci,unii y
could forgive? Even the taking away the mon n merits
of the arts could produce,nosatiseaction ; neithercoold
the contributions paid to the English and Russiens
on the frontiers of the Netherlands. The Noble Lind
(Milton) proceeded to notice the policy of cutiiieg
down France, and the neglect of it towards Saxony
and Genoa ; he remarked also the- prudence of pro.
tecting the Netherlands, Midi had always been At-
tended to by Statesmen of former times, arid see.
ciaUy provided for in the Barrier Treaty of 17 i 5.
The Noble Lord had said, that all Military men in
France stated the possession of more fortresees not to
be necessary; but he (Lord Milton) had rattier t
the attempts of France in all former times as
vuide, than the opinion of the Noble Lord's military
men with whom be had been so long cognettinp,
the Continent. The restoration of the Bout bout of
itself was not sufficient for .the stfety of Europe.
After all which had been attributed to legititeeite
Government, and after the late mark of dtstine•
don paid to Cardinal York (hear, hear, hear), still
legitimate Government was in lard`; and moue?)
be ever declared that of Bonaparte not legitimate,
yet he did not therefore admit universally that leeiti-
mate Government was to be derived from no chentiel
but that of the loins of a family. The Noble Lord
had said.he would never be satisfied till he s.tw Eu-
rope sit down in a more civil state. He was glad to
hear him say so, but 150,000 armed in. n on the troll-
den of France, ready to act according c the discie-
tion of the Duke of Wellington, if he should consider
there was a. revolution in that country, was not inter
to produce such a state among nations. With every
admiration of that General, he did not perceive the