Star.
London, England, 1811-02-05 00:00:00

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elisertitig the existence bf a pitliset fd ere tilt
Assent tn an Act designed solely to supply I
incapacity.
The SPEAKER rose and spoke to the ,-
effect : =After theoprotesta.tiorts which had been in.-
by the Hon. Baronet who spoke first that night, by the
Dion. Gentleman who spoke first in the eommittee,
and the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, after
protestations, in his opinion; so disparagiug and de- I
rogatory to the character of their proceedings lied !
been made, he must confess, thet entertaining, the
opposite views which he did on the question, he could
not reconcile it to his mind to give a silent vote on this
occasion. He had hitherto abstained; for many rea •
sons, from any statement of his sentiments during
the progress of those discussions which leid arisen
upon the important and momentous duty which it
had become the province of that House to discharge.
I He had conceived that after the full examination and
I discussion which the same question had undergone in
I the year 17$8, by some of the greatest and most able
men who had ever graced the councils of the country,
there was little chance of his being able to suggest or
to add any thing worthy of their attention. He had
been desirous also of avoiding any part in the discus-
! sions in which the principle of putting, in the King's
name, the Great seal to an Act of the twseHouses, had
been mixed with other questions that had been greatly
agitated in the House respecting the greater expedi-
.ency of a restricted or an unrestricted Regency. There
was beside another reason which had considerable
weight with him, and this was a persuasion that he
should best consult the duties of his office by abstaining
from all frequent interference with the ordinary
topics of debate. But now when an abstract question
was before him;stripped of all collateral matter, and
' divested of every foreign consideration, he trusted :bete
could be no impropriety in his making a few general
1, observations on a subject of such vital importance to
the interests of the country, and to the dignity and
character of that House. (Hear, hear, hear!) Before,
luswever, he entered upon them, he begged leave s
to remark, that doubts had been expressed as to their
being the legal representatives of the people. What-
t ever opinions might be entertained on the advantages
of improving the present for.m of representation, or of
extending the elective franchise, it was a most erro-
r neous and mischievous declaration to describe them
las not legally representing the Commons of the
United Kingdom ; and he hoped he should never
again hear such an assertion within those walls. It
had been also doubted whether they had been legally
assembled. On this point he wished to state, that
although they had not been at first competent to do 1
many things, and although the commencement of the ;
Session could not be dated from the period of theirl
assembling, it was not a necessary conclusion that
they were constitutionally prevented from executing
all Parliamentary functions whatever. If unable to I
do every thing, it was competent to thrill to do what ;
! it was ahsolutely necessary should be done. (Hear,
hear.)— A new duty had devolved upon them, and
they had been called on to fill tip a chasm. in the Con- ;
stitution. He admitted that this task was momen.
touse--;was hazardous, but it could not ,be declined.
But here he must be permitted to inquire, was there:
*no path pointed out to them in the performance of this '
'duty by the antecedent history of the country, no
guiding light to assist them in the conduct of their an.
cestors ? There appeared to him to be three distinct
precedents perfectly applicable, the proceedings of the -;
two Houses at the poiods of the Restoration, the revo-
' lution, and of 1788. The Restoration Parliament stood ,
surrounded with difficulties, but they scrupled not to s
exercise all the functions of the supreme magistracy ;
they wielded the sceptre of the monarch for the purpose
of securing him the Crown. (Hear, hear.) At the
Revolution, the two Houses exercised the military au-
thority, they maintained the civil overnment of the
counay, and by these means upheld the Constitution
till the Sovereign of their election was seated on the
throne. They performed various other acts, they de-
clared rights, they remedied grievances, they punish-
ed and imprisoned Magistrates whose conduct they
considered dangers** to the safety of the State, and
all these acts were subsequently confirmed and in-1
'vested with the force and efficacy of law. -e- (Hear,
hear.) It was true, the precedent in these respects
was not acted on in 1788, but the cause of its not
being then strictly followed was that no necessity
existed for so doing. The necessity of the case pre-
scribed and limited every measure adopted under such
circumstances. In his opinion, indeed, they might,
with a due regard to the Constitution, have gone tur-
ther, and have appointed their Committees of .Privi-
leges ; and he begged leave to say, that this was an
opinion which he was the less reluctant to avow, be-
cause, being conscious of no personal interest in the
issue of the discussion, it sprung from the belief that'
the 'measure now proposed for adoption, was one*
which it was their right and duty to adopt, and which
could alone enable them to execute effectually what
they had declared it to be their right and duty to do.
He tate deep conviction that the principles formerly
stated with such eloquence and force by a Noble Lord
distinguished for his integrity and talents (Lord
Grenville) when lie held the office .which he (the
Speaker) had then the honour unworthily to fill, were
sound. were just, and truly conformable to the con-
stitution of the country. He was unwilling, however,
to touch upon them so far as they were applied to
the question of a restricted Regency—question on
which it was his intention to be silent. There were
twosor three cardinal points to which he conceived'
their attention should be directed, and in the firsts
/dace he would recal to their recollection the third Re-
solution of both Houses, importing that it was their
right and duty to supply the interruption of the regal
authority. Now it was adrpitted that a King de fare
mid a King de facto had the same claim on the alle-1
;,eance of their subjects, and were equally entitled to
4eir respect and submission ? The case of a vacant
throne was therefore essentially different, and he had
sno hesitation to say, that in such a case the proceed.
ling to supply the regal office by Address was the
most eligible. But the question of appointing a
mited and temporary Regency differed widely from
the election of a King. '1 wo of the precedents which;
he had before referred tn, were not therefore appli.4
cable to this particular view of the subject, the obe
ject having been in both those cases to all the throng
and the object now being to protect his Majesty in
his illness, and provide in the mean time for the exer-1
vise of his authority. They were on the point of
nuking a contract, to which the King, front his ill-
ness, could not be a patty, and it would be a plain

....mg that mous.. dirt., , ae.d which
should likewise bear al close a resemblance as possible
to the ordinary forms and solemnities of Parliament.
Regarding then the Great Seal as the organ express.
ing the Royal Authority for important national Fora
poses, as the instrument by which the will and sane..
tion of the supreme power of Government was al;
ways signified, he thought it highly expedient that tit*
two Houses, acting for the nation at large, and on •
behalf of the Sovereign, should give life and activity
to that ensign of the Regal Power, and treat it as
theeabedient instrument of the Chief Magistrate. He
was supported by the whole mass of our history,
when henraietained the doctrine, that it every period
the Great Seal had been accessible to the to eiHouses;
acting on extraordinary emergencies on. behalf of the
King. During the illness of Hertry VI. the Great
Seal was put toa commission, which commission re-
cited an Act of Parliament, and fit the Restoration
it was put into the hands of the Earl ot. Manchester for
similar purposes.—lf it was apparent that the same
necessity existed now for so doing, why should they
overlook or depreciate the value of such a solemnity ?
--The Honourable Baronet opposite (SirT.Turton),
who was followed by the Right Honourable Gentle.
man (Mr. Ponsonhy) have asserted that Parliament
itharred from proceeding by Dill b'y positive law, by
the Act of the 11th Charles the Second -; but this late
was enacted for a very different state of affairs, and
can by no means be applied jto the present occasion.
Goo forbid that airy thing done without a King so
capable of acting, should ever become the law of the
land. But the present very different situation of af-
fairs renders this law of Charles the Second inade-
quate. Another objection to the proceeding by. Bill
has been started ; but before adverting to it; having
already taken up so much time of the Committee, he
owed to them many apologies for the attention he.had
receiv4d. 'He would not indeed have trespassed lei
long on.their patience, had he not conceived it to be • •
his duty to the Houses,.to lay before them all the
cases and precedents which bore upon the present
question which consisted with his knowledge. [Here
he was cheered by the House.] A Right Honoura-
ble Gentleman (Mr.. Ponsonby) has thought & to
call the measure now submitted to the Committee, a
fraud, a forgery, a fiction. For his part he wink'.
say, that it the measure was unworthy of this great'
nation, he would be the first man to advise it to b*
laid aside ; but he Gould not see in what respect iS
was so unworthy, or how it could merit these appel-
lations. It was not a fiction. It was one person
acting in the place of another. It is said that it as.
smiles the volition of a person incapable of acting;--,
but how is the case ? In the usual Cornmssit,ns, it
is the King that acts, with the interventiasri of i.ii
Privy Councillors. What has the Parliament .done.
on the present occasion ? Parliament hits strucsc out,
the Privy Council, and recorded its own. name in thst •
place. It writes its own name in the body of the hi-
strument. 'Phis is not fiction ; and it is a Ira-version
of language to call it by any such name its fiction-++ t
This supposed fiction is said to have answered net
other end than to delay the course of proceedings.—.
But were the Regent even appointed by Address, it
must be a month or more before he can proceed to •
any act of Government. He must come forward for
a confirmatory statute, otherwise he w0r...1d act with-
out any authority ; and whether or not he assented to
that act, he must act in the naine of the King, who
is declared incapable of acting. Gentlemen opposite
say he acts in his, own name ; but he would ask them
by what authority he acts ? (Hear.) This is begging
the question. It ends as it began—he acts by the
authority of Parliatneot. They would merely put
the Regent in that objectionable situation, to do that
by hifnself which was more properly the act cf Par.
liament, and which rested on the authority of Parlia.
anent. If the Regent should be appointed" by Ad-
dress, he must usurp the King's name and authority ;
but were they sure that such a Regent would find the
Privy Seal obedient to his commands ? A great deal
of the business of the nation was, as is well known,
carried on by the Sign Manual ; but would the Re-
gent, by Addle* venture to put the Sign Manual
to any of his acts ? If lie did so, it was very probes.
ble that many of those acts would be disputed in•
every Court in the kingdom. In such a case the Re-
gent could only rest upon them for authority. They
must give him their mace for a sceptre. (gear.) - ft
would be smog se to compromise their authority .
when they could at once give him a sword which wne
irresistible—when they could at once exert a power ,
which could never be controve-ted. fits opinion,
therefore, was, that the mode of proceeding which
the House had adopted, was the most constitutional
mode—that the Act by which the Prince was vested
with the Regency was consistent and contemporane-
ous in its effect—and that it was beneficial to the
Sovereign, and equally beneficial to thecountry.—
(Lead eporiesitssa ktrßobayt felt the
)the highest respect for the
authority and talents of the Right Hon. Gentleman
who had jest addressed the Committee, but, in con-
sequence of the allusions that had been made to what
had fallen from himself, be conceived hiivelf called
upon to offer a few observations to.the Lommittee.
It was extremely natural for the Right Mon. Gentle-
man, holding the situation he filled with so much
ability, now that the House had decided in favour
of the proceeding under consideration, should be par-
'step to it, and give it his eta port. But whilst he felt
the highest respect fur that Right Hon. Gentleman,
he should discuss his arguments with the most perfect
freedom. The Right Hon. gentleman had mistaken
altogether the drift of his argument, when he sup-
posed that he applied the term-Action to the present
part of the proceeding. He bad never said that the
fiction consisted in using the King's name,
as in this
instance, but in Parliament -adopting the proceeding,
implying the consent of the King. after lyah.Hooses
had decided that he was incapable of giving such
consent. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked, if
they were to proceed by address, how the authority
of the Regent could be consitkred as known to the
•1 country without the Act of Parliament to confirm it?
Certainly it could not ; but all that Varliamcnt had
to do in the first instance, was to supply the defi-
ciency in the Royal Authority, to make a snbstiwte
for the incapable Sovereign, personally competent to
' give the Royal Assent to the Act. This ay:is
' course pursued at the Revolution. The *fiction he
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fife **yid aikneitiritehi of the;r ciirt tewhitiP,*
the Royal forget that they had two ends, not ones to accomplish; •
is. To him it appe.tred, that these purposes woii:u
folloWinr. 1000 effectuidly secured by a simultaneous act, a pro.
been niade• ceedingthAtshould be instant •nd direct, a 4 which