Star.
London, England, 1826-05-09 00:00:00

we understood) one pound notes wire still to continue.
This was to be the beaaful theory of our currency.
He was not, thee, prepared to trust in their hands,
whatever respect he might hire for the Right Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, a power by which the price of food
was to be regulated by a Government which had she* n
such inconsistency and vacillation. What he thought
they ought to do was, to apply themselves at once to
the whole question of ihe Corn Laws, and deliberately
settle it upon some permanent basis. With respect to,
the objection that the present period was unfit, he de-
clared that he never SAW a time when the Country
Gentlemen were more reasonable in their view•, or

when he should have been so willing to go into a Com-
mittee with them for the purpose of investigating the sub-
ject. With the exception of one Hon. Gentleman who had
spoken that night, he had heard no one defend the prin-
ciple of the present system without modification. With
that one exceptioh, everybody agreed that the ports
should be open at a protecting duty; the only question
was the amount of that duty. He should say that this
could only be ascertained by experiment. He 1.1-ntld
think that from fifteen to eighteen shillings would se-
cure a price of batwee.t fifty-five and sixty shillings a
quarter; and that was what he sv.h.d to see it. Yet,
it they fixed such a duty now, he should not be sur-
prised if next year they were called upon to alter it. He
did not know what was to prevent ,the Inquiry taking
pl ice now. In the early part of the Session it was said
that the measure respecting the currency prevented it,
because it was nece,sary to bring gold into the country
to supply the vacuum in our circulation occasioned by
the withdrawal of small notes. That objection could
not now apply, because by emptying the warehouses of
foreign corn, they wou'd row be filled up again, as it
was most desirable they should, always holding in their
own hands the key, to let it out as it might be
wanted by the country. There was another advantage
in beginning the experiment with the present year.—
According to Mr. Jacob's report, the supply of corn on
the Continent which could be sent here was not very
great; and that was because it had not been grown
w.th the expectation of an English market. if the sense
of the House in any way agreed with him, what he
should propose would be, to go back at once into Com-
mittee, and enter upon the enquiry as to the state of the
Cori Laws. Therefore, when the Report was brought
up, he should move that it be referred back to the
Committee for this purpose. In importing the Corn
now in bond, he saw no reason why it should pay a
duty of 12s. except that 12s. was the amount which had
been paid on another occasion. When the Bill went
to a Committee he should propose that the duty be 151.
and he should do this because he did not wish to send
forth to the country a price of duty which he knew in
his own mind would not be a prAection. Besides he
was certain it would corns in just as well, and not a
farthing dearer to the consumer, at a duty of fifteen, or
seventeen, or eighteen shillings. The difference would
go into the pockets of the Prussian corn dealer, or others
engaged in the trade. Upon the present occasion he should content
himself with objecting to the abrogation of their most important
duties and placing them in the hands of Gentlemen who had so
mismanaged an subjects of this nature.

Mr. C. WILSON agreed in the views so ably expressed by the
lion. Member who had so lately witnessed the scenes of distress
which were so common in some parts of the country. Ile entirely
concurred in the motion for receiving the Report.

Mr.WHITMORE could not but agree with the Hon.
Member for Taunton, that the great power proposed
to be vested in the hands of Government without .re.
straint could not fail to produce considerable effects
upon the agricultural interest. He was an advocate for
an immediate alteration of the Corn Laws, and that,
too, at a less rate of protecting duty than the Hon.
Member for Taunton. If his measure had been adopted
by the House, he should have followed it up by pro-
posing an increasing scale of duty in proportion to the
descent of prices. This he thought would have prevented the panic
likely to take place under the present measures of Government.
His late lamented friend, Mr. Ricardo, amp guarded himself in
the same manner against exciting the alarms of the agricultural
classes. He argued that, on the contrary, the measures of Govern.
went were calculated to do anything but tranquillise the coun-
try at large.

Mr. IRVING said he was surprised to hear the Hon.
Gentleman who had just sat down complain that the
Government were proceeding in a course calculated to
excite alarm in the country. If there was any Member
in the House whose conduct had tended to create alarm
and panic, it was the Hon. Member. (Hear.) He had
at an early part of the Session given notice that he would
bring forward the important question of the Corn Laws.
He then postponed it from time to time, and when the
House decided that the proper time fir entertaining it
had not arrived, what was the conduct of the Hon. Gen-
tleman? He gave notice that be would bring it for-
ward again in the next Session, and continue to do so,'
in case of failure, until he should completely succeed.
If this did nOt create uncertainty and alarm among the
agricultural interest, he knew not o hat would. He was
of opinion that the Government was not free from blame
in respect to the present unfortunate state of the country.
They had not sufficiently observed the symptoms which
had presented themselves for several months past, and
which had been aggravated by a too great and rapid
contraction of the currency. He agreed with the Hon.
Member for Taunton, that if the ship had been left to
herself she would have Lighted, and we should now have
seen her riding in safely. What the Hon. Member had
stated as the general opinion upon the subject of the
Corn Laws, namely, that the ports should be thrown
open at a protecting duty, was not, he thought, the
opinion of the House. Sure he was that it was not the
opinion of those connected with the agricultural inte-
rests. They were satisfied s ith the principle of the pre-
sent system, when they saw that it worked well. It did
not, perhaps, square with the philosophers of the pre-
sent day ; but he, as a plain practical man, was sa-
tisfied with it for one ; and although he would con-
sent to modify the sycenr, yet any measure which
went to destroy its principle should meet his opposition.
The Honourable Member then referred to Mr. Jacob's
Report, to shew the difference between the expence of
producing corn in Germany and in this country. He
contrasted the condition of the foreign labourer with
our own, and expressed his hope that the difference
would be preset ved. The labourer in this country had
wants which existed in no other country under the sun.
He hoped those wants would continue; for to supply
them he must be industrious and virtuous. He was
surprised to hear the lion. Member for Taunton first
declate that the question might be settled upon a per-
manent footing at once, and then that nothing could he
done but what would be purely experimental. He felt
no objection to give the Government a d.scretionary
power to meet any evil that might arise, only he would propose to
give it them in another mode. The evil anticipated was, chat a
scarcity might posohly occur in the month of August, and that no
relief could be obtained under the present law, in less than three
months, because there must be an average of 804. upon the six
weeks' prices before the pats would open. Now he would give the

Government the power, whenever theyriee of wheat should nsaeh
701. with -reference to time, to openlhe ports tor foreign train.
Mr. Wurntolut and Mr. BASING explained.
Mr. HUSKISSON, with reference to what had fallen
from the Hon. MeMber for Bramber (Mr. Irving), ob-
served, that nothing would give him greater satisfaction
than if the subject of the Corn Laws should next See.
sion be placed in his hands, on the part of his Majesty's
Government, to profit by the assistance of the Hon.
Member. With respect to the observations of the
Hon. Member for Taunton, that Hon. Gentleman must
by this time perceive that the inconveniences alleged to
arise from the absence of Members from a discussion
were not imaginary; for by his absence it was apparent
he was rather in arrear with respect to this subject. He
asserted that the prices of corn had not been rising
during the last six or seven weeks, whereas it had been
stated in that House, as he would have heard had he
been present, that the prices had risen from 545. to
60s. during the' last six weeks. He also st tted, that
a proposition of 12 shillings duty on bonded corn had
not been adverted to, whereas it had been distinctly
discussed in the Rinse. With respect to the charge
of inconsistency brought by the Honourable Member
f r Bramber against tie Hon. Gentleman, he (Mr. Hus.
les,on) thought it perfectly just; fur the Hon. Gentleman
had said that the Corn Laws should be settltd—that
the question should not be left uncertain—that no man,
in the present state of things, knew what his rents were.
He (Mr. Huskisson) admitted that the rents of land
were affected in some degree by legislating on this sub-
ject ; but surely the Hon. Member could not mean that
the rents of land were wholly governed by it. This was
a great and prevailing error, which produced much
excitement. The Hon. Gentleman suggested that the
question should be faxed; he followed up this sugges-
tion by saying that there should be a duty of 16s.
or 18s. and the House should " feel its way." Tne lion.
Gentleman thought the measure so simple, so easy,
that he quarrelled wi h Ministers for nut giving it the
finishing stroke; and professed himself ready to refer
the matter to the Committee, and by disposing of it at
once, in the space of a few minutes, enable every
man to fix his rent, and determine the price of corn.—
The Hon. Member for Bridgenorth had said, that this
meddling with the Corn Laws would occasion great
alarm; and if so, certainly that would be a great evil.
But then it ought to be kept in view, that there might
be another ground of alarm, lest they should not have
a sufficient supply of corn to carry them on to the next
season. Some Gentlemen said, that an alarm would
be excited by the measures now under consideration,
and that this would occasion a rise of prices. Cer-
tainly, if an opinion should prevail that a great scarcity
was apprehended, that might cause a rise of prices for
a time; and the opinion that an abundant supply was
to be had, would tend to reduce the prices. But an
alarm from an opinion of abundance, and an alarm
from apprehension of scarcity, were incompatible. He
had stated on a former occasion, and he now repeated
that statement, that the 500,000 quarters of grain pro-
posed to be admitted into the market would not mate.
rially affect the prices. But the great alarm appeared
to arise from the proposed introduction of 500,000 qrs.
of foreign corn. But Gentlemen appeared to forget that
this was a mere measure of confidence in the discretion of
Ministers. It did not follow, from the vesting of this dis-
cretionary power in the Government that Ministers were
bound to admit this quantity of corn. No foreign corn
would be admitted, unless the necessity or expediency of
it should be evident. Ministers wanted to have the dis-

zretionary power, without any limitation as to quan-
tity ; but various objections had been made to this, and
it had therefoie been. thought proper to propose this
limited quantity of 500,000 quarters, because it was
thought that no more would be wanted. The measure,
however, was submitted by Ministers merely as one of
discretion ; and although they were willing to confine
themselves to 500,000 quarters, yet, if circumstances
should turn out to be such that more would be required,
then it would be the duty of Ministers to admit a larger
quantity upon their own responsibility, or assemble Par-
liament for the purpose of procuring its sanction.—
He begged leave to recall to the recollection of this
House what happened in 1816; and then they could
not but be sensible of the expediency of vesting this
discretionary power in the hands of Government.—
In that year the harvest was very deficient, a great part
of the corn having been injured by the rains; and yet
the potts were not opened till November, although the
price of wheat was at 100 s. per quarter. They remained
shut during the months of August, September, and
October, notwithstanding the great advance of ;slice;
and then, when the ports were at length opened in the
month of November, countries in which the harvest had
otherwise been deficient came into competition with this
country in the market, and prevented that ample sup-
ply that might otherwise be obtained. He was as
sensible as the Hon. Member for Taunton of the incon-
venience of this occasional legislation. But he chal-
lenged any Member of that House, even the staunchest
supporters of the Corn Laws, to say that, under the
present circumstances, these laws might to be allowed
to come into full operation. No one would venture to
say so; and they were bound, therefore, to give this
discretionary power to Ministers, or adopt some other
measure that might obviate so great a calamity.—
He was almost ashamed even to have said this much
after the eloquent and powerful appeal made by the
Hon. Member for Stockbridge, not only to the judg-
ment, but also to the feelings, of the House on the de-
Llorable condition of the manufacturing population of
ancashire. That appeal must surely convince the
House of the expediency now of the necessity of adopt-
ing some such measure as this, in order to convince the
people that there existed in Parliament a decided dispo-
sition to do everything in its power for alleviating the
present distresses. Some Hon. Gentlemen asked why the
question was agitated at all until a permanent measure
was resolved upon? He would ask, in his turn, why had
the quest on been agitated in the last Session ? Others
again had taunted him for not having come down to
the House much sooner with a proposal to set free the
bonded cora, in order to prevent its rotting in the
warehouses. But with respect to the general question,
be had only W repeat what he had often said before—
that it could not be conveniently brought under dis-
cussion till the arrival of a period of more calm, and
less distress and difficulty; and as to the proposition of
the Hon. Member for Taunton, for going into a Com-
mittee, and considering the whole subject of the Corn
Laws, that Hon. Member would do well to consider
whether the adoption of such a course at the present
moment, would tend to allay the alarm, and relieve the
calamity under whieh the manufacturing diurieu were anw labour,
ing. In his opinion the effect would be the very reverse, and he cer-
tainly could not approve of that proposition. The measure aow
under consideration was evidently called for by the citcumstancp
of the country, and he trust... it would therefore be mactiosed by
the Rouse.

Sir L. KNATCHBULL opposed the measure, and

!expressed his surprise that the Bight llon. Secretary
for Foreign Affairs, who had deprecated any rfiscussina
upon the general measure, had brought forward 4
measure which he must have known would lead in-
evitably to the discussion which he so much deprecated.
He would prefer that Ministers should act upon their own respon-
.sibility, in preference to the present course. lie did not mean to
contend that the principles contended for by the proposers of this
measure were, In the abstract, unsound or incorrect, hut be con-
tended that the application of those principles to the state of the
country were unwise and impolitic.
Mr. Secretary CANNING.—I can assure the Hon.
Baronet, who has just sat down, that I listened, both to
his observations on the practical measure under the con-
sideration of the House, and to his exposition of the
general principles involved in the great qnestion, out of
which the measure itself emanates--I cannot say with-
out any feeling of sorrow, but certainly without any
feeling of displeasure ; freely conceding to him, that, in
explaining frankly, as he has done, what his opinions
and sentiments upon the occasion are, he has done no
more than discharge his duty, but requiring of him,
in return, that he will at least give his Majesty's
Ministers credit for being, however mistaken he
may deem their policy, however illusive their views,
actuated by the suite consciousness of rectitude. It
appears to me, Sir, that a great part of this debate,
like the concluding topics of the Honourable Baronet's
speech, has been very far vs ide of the practical ques-
tion. That question I take to be this—There exists in
the country at the present time a law for regulating
the trade in corn; a law enacted under particular cir-
cumstances, and which, at the time, were constantly
used as justifying its introduction, and of which law
it was considered that the extreme provisions never
could be carried into operation. In thus stating the
question, I am very far from presuming to give an
opinion, and certainly I -do not wish that any opi-
nion should be inferred from %%hat I say, as to whe-
ther or no, in a state of things such as that in which
we now are, or whether or no, in an ordinary state of
things, this law could be suffered to go inro full esecu-
tiOn without inconvenience to the country. Nor is it
necessary that I should give an opinion upon this ques-
tion. Itis sufficient for the purpose of my argument,
that I insist on the fact that there exists now a state of
tkitrgs the reverse of what existed at the period of the
passing of this Act, and a state of things which was
appealed to as possible at that time as condemnatory of
the Act itself. Without meaning to impugn the de-
dared opinions of Hon. Gentlemen who oppose the
propositions of Ministers upon this subject, I take, as a
proof that it is as I state it to be, the fret that no man
who has spoke against the motion has ventured to say
that the extreme provisions of the law, as it now stands,
could now be carried into operation without creating
apprehension and alarm in the country.—( Hear, hear!)
I am fully entitled to deduce this important conclusion
from the abstinence of my opponents in this particular.
My Hon. Friend who spoke last, and who said pretty
nearly every thing else on his own side of the argu-
ment, did not venture to say that ; nor even did the
Hon. Member for Surrey (Mr. H. Sumner), who led
the discussion. It being, then, admitted that this mea-
sure, however good in itself, however justified in its
origin, however adapted to an ordinary state of things,
cannot now be put in force without exciting alarm and
apprehension. I say, Sir, that a case is made our, in
which Government have a duty to perform, obrsoloos,
indeed, to certain prejudices which we may have to en-
counter, but unopposed by any reasons that I have yet
heard urged against it. Then, Sir, if Government inter-
fere, there are two ways by which the end in view may
be attained, and also two means of interference of which
the Government have choice. They can accomplish the
object in view by a permanent alteration of the law, as
recommended by the Hon. Member for Taunton (Nit-.
Baring), and others; or they can devise some measure
adapted to the particular case with which they are
called upon to deal. The two means of which Govern-
ment have the election, are, to act either upon their own
unaided, unsupported discretion, or by the previous
advice of Parliament: Now, Sir, I hope it will be seen
that I have fairly stated the case—(Hear.) If there is any
one in this House who will maintain the proposition,
that the extreme provisions of the Corn Laws may now
be carried into operation, there will be a fair issue
between his Majesty's Ministers and him. Such a
one will be a just and fair antagonist ; and he w.ll be
at liberty to say that the whole of our proposed course
of legislation is vicious. But, until that proposition shall
be maintained—and often as Honourable Gentlemen
have been challenged to come forward and support
it, no one has been found to accept the citallenge—
the reverse may fairly, be assumed as undeaiable.—
( Hear). Why, Sir, even the Honourable Member for
Brecon (Colonel Wood), who is the only one who has
approached any thing near to maintaining the proposi-
tion I have adverted to, even he has varied in his pro-
pose's, for he has risen ss. since the last debate in the
price at which he would allow the opening of the ports.
He, Sir, who would have the Corn Laws permanent
and unaltered, has agreed, pro hac vice, that ti e
restrictive price should be al ered from- 80s. to 70,.
The other night, Sir, the Hon. Gentleman bad the
price down as low as 655. but this morning came a
letter to me by post, expressing a hope that I should
come into his proposal that 70i. should be the rate at
which corn should be admitted, and all would be wel'.
I suppose, Sir, that the Hun. Gentleman having gone
out of town since the last debate, and having an op-
portunity of looking into his fields, thought 70s. would
look much better than 655. and so substituted, without
a word of comment, the one sum for the other.—(Laugh-
ter.) The least the Hen. Gentleman could do under suck
circumstances, however, was to abstain from charging
me with inconsistency. But, however, Sir, here we
have that Hon. Gentleman and the Hon. Member for
Bramber, who both stoutly stand up for the main-
tenance of the present Corn Laws unaltered, admitting
the principle of a change of some sort to meet the
present exigency. This, Sir, is all I want from them,
for this is an admission of the propriety of a tem-
porary alteration, or rather suspension, of the ex-
isting Corn Laws, from the mouths of our prin-
cipal opponents. If there were any real opponent to
the measure we should propose, he should say, I stand
by the price fixed by the law; I wont alter the law ;
wont lower the price, nor will I admit the bonded corn !
This would be a real, substantial opponent ; but here
the Hon. Gentlemen who are foremost to offer oppo-
sition to the proposals of Government, are ready to agree
to the admission of 300,000 quarters of bonded wheat,
and are ready to lower the price to 70.. Now, Sir, I
MemberlSlem berforfor
ssauyr,retyla;at
by b y
thethe
adadmmi
sissisoi
no noofttht
Hlloonn..
Brecon; by the admission of the Hon. Member for
Kent ; and by the admission of the Hon. Member for
Brnmber—there is an exigency in the present state of
things sufficient to warrant a change of some sort..