Star.
London, England, 1817-07-04 00:00:00

PETEMIN FOR RIISOAM.

Tall GROSVENOR presented a petition
certain Inhabitant Householder► of the Parish of
Luke, Chelsea, praying-for Economy and Reform.
His Lordship stated, that the Poinon;Ts had pre-
sented :4 requisition.for a meeting to the Churchw.a.
din:, who having refused to cdi it, they were com-
pelled to call a inciting under the provisions of the
Seditious Meetings Ac's They proposed to hold t-.!
meeting at a tavern in the parish., but the keeper of
the tavern was thre4tnaed it he suffered the merztin,;
to he held there, at d under the iLioence of intimiCa-
tiofi refused. They wtta consecrently obliged to
Bold the meeting in the (Teti air. 'l'o throw obstruc-
tion: in th-. manner in the laity of petitioning, was,
he Lctiictiti.d, c411,41....c.1 :4 etc much mc:e dila&

E
,

fection than was urged as a plea for tie measures of
severity lately proposed by Miniiters. His Lordship
presented the Petition, which was read, and ordertd
to lie upon the Libie.

mulct cqmintsisATioN
The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of
the Day for the third reading of this and one or two
of the Offices' Regulation Bdls. which lay over for
the last stage. On the question,
The Marquis of • LANSDOWNE fully admitted
the principle of compensating long and meritorious
officio! service by eommensurote remuneration in
'some shape or other; but, at, the same time, fie was
against the continuance of useless offices which were
not legally vested, as proposed, in some of the mea-
sures before their Lordships; and, in this view, he
could not but observe the omission of two certain
important words in the present Bills. which seemed
to have been always usedin Acts of the kind before.
He meant. after the words " existing interests," the
insertion of these, "legally vested." These he should
in the way of amendment, move to have restored.
He thought the prin,ciple upon which these parts of
the Bills proceeded was perfectly new, viz. "the con-
tinuation of salaries to persons %Ito were not legally
vested with: the . interests of their offices," by Acts
which went proiessedly ($1 the ptitruiple of abrogat-
jug u%ele.s offices.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that as the'
Noble Lord seemed to approve the general principle,
of these measures, he should contiue lrmselt to the
prominent point of his objection. And this, he mutt
say, as far as the principle went, did uot apply to
any office whatever which it was proposed to abolish, ,
with respect to England. He perfectly concurred in
the right of Parliament to regulate every office of the
kind, though there may be several • cases where it '
would be unjust to deprive meritorious individuals of
the fruits of these (Aces, though they may not pos-
sess vested interests therein. .

_
The E srl of LAUDERDALE supported the ob-
jections of the Notre Marquis, and contended, that
the present measures, taking their uperatiun•and ef-
fect altogether, would prove the reverse of economi•
cal for the public.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in explanation.
adverted to the injustice of dismissing num raus
ckrks, and persons holding very minor situations, as
at the end of the ware and continuing salaries LO the
bolJers of snperior offices, to persons who could much
better de war t tlrrm.

The Earl ot LIVERPOOL explained, that there
were no regularly established clerks whatever dis-
sui,sed with...ut provision or allowance ; those who
we,e d were avowedly extra or temporary
clerks, and even tone of these were dischari,ed with-
out some degree of allowance.
On the question for agreeing to the Amendment
or the Noble Marquis, for iatetting the words o.
lu-
gally vested."
The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the
introduction of such words would raake no diairaice
whatever as to the legal tenour of the enactment.
A conversation then took place as to the m ,st
Cacious form of wads in the way of additional pro-
viso, to meet the idea Of the Noble Marquis as stated
in the discussion. .The most proper mode of enact-
iig language for the purpose was suggested by the
Noble and Learned Lard ; and which ultimately,
;thee 'he tejectan of the proposes! amendment, is le-
gally vest J." %iris moved by thi Marquis of LANs-
ixswsta AS WI additional proviso, but which; on the
question. was also negatived by their Lordships.
The Bills, as abote, were then read the third time
and passed.

CLERGY RISIDENCE BILL.
On the question, pursuant to the Order of the
Day tor going into a Committee on this Bill,
The Earl of HARROWBY expressed his appro-
bation generally as to the principle and object of the
Bill : but seemed to entertain some apprehensions that
the important consideration of residence could not,
on account of the numerous exceptions in the Bill,
prperly be enforced by the diocesans.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY defended
the measure generally, and could Assure the Noble
Earl that the present Bench i,t Bishops Were as
Nirous to enforce an adequate residence as any men
their situations could possibly be; his Grace also
noticed that parochial residence WAS at present At least
a; general a% At any t rmer period.
The LORI) CHANCELLOR seemed to think
that the existing law, were it properly put in force,
was fully adrquwe to what was' complained of, on
the sense of residence and pluralities. He greatly
lamented that the Bill was brought for ward at su vet y
lite r 1 period of the Session, when he, at least, in
consequence of the importance of his other avoca.
Cons, could not pay that degree of attention to the
subject which it evidently deserved.
, Their Lordships then rt tolvid into the Committee,
and agreed, with some amendments, to the various
Clauses and provisions of the Bill. After which the
House resumed, and Adjourned till to-morrow.

shrived, in consc•qnence of the establishments which
had been formed there, the population of the Island
had been in the course of time increased to about
80,000 persons. Within the last year great calami-
ties had been experienced in Newfoundland ; and
many, who had been accustomed to live honestly and
respectably, had been forced into the streets to sub.
sist themselves by plunder and rapine. The Met..
chants' storehouses had, in consequence, been broken I
open, and other disorders had occurred. Tor three
or four months a degree of distress had existed there,
almost unexampled in the world. The Merchants
having had their storehouses plundered last year,
were resolved to send oot no new supplies in this,
rnorethan were necesury for their sarvants, and the
people would therefore be exposed to all the horrors
lof famine, if the Government d:cl not adopt sore
measure for thew relief. From the evidence given in ,
the Committee, and from letters received within the 'I
last twenty days, it was clear, that unless some en-
' cOuragement were given to the Merchants to continue '
the trade, the present inhabitants of the Island would
be in danger of belts starved. If temporary relic'
were not now given, none could be afforded three
months hence. The trade to Newfoundland had
formerly flourished to a great degree, but one re-
spectable Gentleman now in it had stated to the Com •
m ttee, that lie lost .‘20,000 within tlie last year, and
that if s-me new measures were not adopted, he
could not thitik of sending nit new stipples in the
present year. The same Gentleman had stated the
most.he had ever gained by the trade to Newfound-
land in one year, was it.'22,000. If something were
not alone to relieve the distress, by granting a byway
on the exportation of fish, for one year, ur by some
other measure, in all probability 1U or 12,000 per-
sons must lx: starved to death in the ensuing winter.
It might do great good to remove 5,000 of their
number. At present the best part of the fishery was
given up to France, who, by offering bounties to
those engaged in it, caused it to be vigorously prose-
cuted. He set forth tl:e great importance of the trade
to Newfoundland, in which he stated 800 vessels to
have been annually employed. This trade once lost,
he wished to know in svliat way it was to be redeem-1
ed He moved that the House do go into a Com-
mittee of the whole House, to take into consideration
the Report of the Committee, and the propriety of ,
giving a bounty of two shillings per quintal on Fish
exported from Newfoundland, for one year. He WAS
aware that bounties on exportation ought not to be
given but on due consideration, but the pressing na-
ture of the case borne in mitts!, he thought the pro-
priety of having recourse to such an expedient might
not improperly be discussed on taking the Report
into consideration.
Mr. ROBINSON said, it was not an agreeable,
task to rise to oppose any specific plan for the relief
of distress like that which had been batught under ,
the consideration of the House by the Honourable
Gentleman, but he felt that he should not do his duty ,
if he were nut to oppose what he could not but re-
gard as a very unadvised proposition. The Honour.
able Gentletnan had only suggested that a bounty
should be given for one year, but the House would
act unwisely, if, in deciding on this question, they
did not look at the grounds on which the Mtrcharts
wished a bounty to be granted. They considered a
bounty given but for one year would be worth no-
thing; what they required was a bounty co•ex cosier
with that given by the Government of France. It
was not, however, for this country to run a race with
another in that which was considered to be bad policy.'
He therefore hoped the House would not be disposed
to accede to the proposition of the Honourable Gen-
tleman. Besides the bounty called for, it was con-
tended by some, that Government ought to remove
five, ten, OS 15,000 persons from the Island of New-
foundland. Should this wish be complied with, he I
wished to know what in the world was to be done
with the unfortunate persons thus removed ? Most
of them,. he believed, were from Ireland. Were they
to be sent back to their own country, where the dis.
tress of the people was greater even than that expe-
rienced in Newfoundland? Were they to be taken
to Canada or Nova SCOIiA There ilie harvest had
last year been bad, and the addition of such A num-
ber of persons to their population as it was proposed
to remove, would greatly add to the general distress.
When last year Government, anxious to do all they
could, had offered, it the Merchants would convey
1,000 persons from Newfoundland to NoTA Scotia, to
subsist them for one year at the latter place. till they
should be cowbird to establish themselves, the prop-
' sition hal been treated as a joke, and ootbing would
satisfy the Merchants but a bounty like tbat given by
the French Government. Because the trade to New- I
foundiand was liable to such great fluctuations ; he..l
cause in one year an individual had gained the enor-
mous sum of aIt22,OVU, and in another had lost
re 20,000, it by no means fr•llowed that it would be I
wise to give the bounty called tor. On the contrary, ,I
he was of opinion that by pursuing inch a courw the
evil would be increased tenfold. The effect of it!
would be to invite numbers from all parts of the
country to go there to participate in the bounty, and
I under an idea that whatever might occur, they would]
be provided for by the Government. With these
feelings, he should oppose the motion.
Mr. HOLDSWORTH was satisfied, if the Mer-
chants were not encouraged to send out the usual,
supplies in the course of the present year, that in the
ensuing winter the population of the island would be
reduced to a state of famine.

lof Newfoundland to look for : If startle mere:re:erre I
rot adored to relieve them, they must suffer starva-
tion in that barren island. Considering the state these
people were in, he hoped the House would Bite the
subject their most serious attention.
Mr. PROTHEROE thought a very strong case
had been made out in favour of the present motion.
Humanity, he contended, required that some relief
should be afforded to the sufferers, and a heavy le-
spronsibtlity would attach to the Government if they
neglected to take the subject into their serious con.
sideration, and suffer the matter to pass by, without
endeavouring to do something to mitigate the cala-
mitous situation of the people of Newicetedland.
Mr. F. LEWIS VIAS of opinion, since a call on the
present occasion WAS made on the humanity el the
House, that it ought to be treated AS a question of
humanity and not AS one of genetal policy. II the
distress was such as it was said to be, it be
desirable to endeavour to sepply a remedy by means
of A special grant, to be forwarded to diem in clothes,
or in such articles as they might stand mr,-,t in need
ofiln their present siteation. He war, however, of
*minion that nn distress existed in I:lvvh.unillar.d
which be could not parallel nearer house. !fe re-
minded the House of the distress which hid been
brought before them by the Honourable Mcnib-r !or
Carmarthen; the vtate of Leland w.ts as bad, and
that of Scotland, he feared, was very neatly the same.
These, however, it had not been in the ()ewer of too.
cerement to relieve. lb! entreated Ilie House then
to pause before they took the course recotrinunded to
them in favour of Newfoundland. At any rate, he
hoped they would not :rave recourse to the old nost: urn
of a bounty on exportation, to take A:10,1800 from the
pockets of the people of this country, to be in the first
instance added to the profits of the Merchants.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
thought nothing coma be more judged than the
proposition for relieving the sufferers by means of a
bounty on exportation. He was su:e the tofferers
themselves would not deS!re such a measure to Ist:
adopted. Ile had boen stirprised at the ,ossertion in
the Report that Government were he,witi to support
those who had gone to Newfoundland. He begged
to ask if Government had sent them there He de•
flied that they had done so.- or that they had done
any thing to justify such al expectation as hid
been encouraged, beyond !voiding r.ti: a bountiful
hand to the sufferers from the lire at :it.John's. That
the case might be a fit subject for the comiJeration
of Government, he eiid not mean to deny ; but that
it would be proper to attempt to afford relief by
means of the bounty which had been recommended,
was that to which he could not subscribe. lie :.hewed
the folly of this Government undertaking to give a
bounty, because such a course had be..n pursued
by the French Government, and contended, if such
a principle were once adopted, both countries, endea..
routing to outdo each other in giving bounties, might
exhaust their finances in useless competition.
Mr. BAILING did not think that there were many
in t ccountry who wotial urge the state of our finan-
ces in opposition to the sum of dtGa.ooo being tip.
plied to reliere distress like that which had been
brought under the consideration of the House. It
ever there were cases in which bounties on exporta-
tion might to be granted, the present was one of the
strongest that could be itnagined. The policy of
France in giving bounties, he was of opinion, was sug-
gested, not so much by the value of the trade for itself,
as for its importance with a view to naval strength.
In this respect he held it to be of great importance to
England. By treaty, perhaps, the necessity of giving
bounties in opposition to France might be avoided.—
His aversion to bounties was such, that even in a case
like the present, he would not sanction the giving of
one, without first bestowing the most attentive consi-
deration on the subject. An advance of money to
assist the sufferers was perhaps the only thing that
could be done at this time.

_
Sir ACLAND was of opinion, the peculiar
claims of those whose distress had been now brought
under their consideration, was such as to justify A
departure from general principles in this particular
case, when the object in view WAS 10 say,. .5000 fellow
creatures from perishing by famine. Ile would not
quarrel with any mode of relief which the Chancellor
of the Excheqner might prefer, since he objected to
give bounties on exportation, but he hoped be would
favour them with an assurance that something should
be done.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, the subject had occupied, and would continue
to occupy, the most serious attention of Government,
who were anxious to of the sufferers relief. In
the case of the fire at St. John's, they had shewn
they were not disposed to shrink from the responsi-
lity of atteruptim:, to remedy, or at least to alleviate,
the calamity. Ihe same principles wouhl be acted
upon with respect to the distress now complained of
in Newfoundland. What directions might be sent
cut he was not at present prepared to state, but the
subject would not be neglected.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR replied. He said lie had
only called for that which, under circumstances of a
similar nature, and at a time when the distress was
not half as great as that now complained of, Sad
been sanctioned by Mr. Pitt• and Mr. Perceval.—
Since the motion he had made was objected to, he
wished to know if Ministers would consent• to an
Address the Prince. Regent, calling for same pecu-
niary grant or assistance; to enable those engaged in
the N..tet midland trade to meet their new competi-
tors in the French market ?
House then divided—For the Motion 29,-
Agairst ;:.io—Majority against it 21.
..A Message from the Lords announced, 'that their
Lordships tad agreed to the 011ie Abolition and
Rep:Luton Bills. • •