Star.
London, England, 1811-01-03 00:00:00

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'union which had unhappily prevails(' in-thslevsfal ft.
Iznily (but which he rejoiced to see at attend), he
`traced all the calamities which had fallen on the na-
tion. but for those fatal dissettions he felt confident
the empire would have now been in a much better
state., From 1792 we had here at war with all Ettel
rope, and twelve hundredmillions of the public money'
had been spent, in consequence of the adoption of
this system of fraud. He knew not how an act of
Legislation could be made in the manner proposed.
There had been various modes of making laws. At
one time the King could of himself 'make laws. At
another period of our history, acts of legislation were
made by the King and Lords. Down to the period
of Henry VII. the people were never mentioned but
as petitioners or supplicants. Since that period it had
been enacted, that no law could have force without
'the joint authority of King, Lords, and Commons.
This, in addition tothe instances already before them,
had been established, in the case of Lord Macclesfield.
All they had to do in the present instance was, to
address the Prince to take upon himself the authority
of Regent. The Executive Power ought to be re-
stored to the Constitution without delay. He again
protested against the proceedings Of Ministers, and
thought they had acted unconstitutionally, illegally,
and treasonably. ...(IZear, hear!)—He meant no or:
fence to any human being, (A laugh), but such was'
his opinion of their conduct.
Mr. PONSONBY observed, the Report had,not
yet been brought up, thoughthe Gentlemen who had
spoken had seemed toregard it, as being on the table.
On this suggestion, the question was put by the
SPEAKER, and the Report ordered to be brought up.
Mr. Lushington brought it up accordingly, and on
the second reading of the first resolution,
Lord PORCHESTER rose. He -felt obliged to
repeat what had been the prelude to almost every
speech, that personal character ought to he put wholly
out of consideration, and there never was a period
when that could so well be done, as there existed but
one and the same opinion of all the three Royal Per-
sonages who had been mentioned. The present case
varied from all that had been alluded to, as what
they had to do was to vest the power of the King in
an heir apparent of full age. In making provisions
to guard against anticipated dangers, they ought to
consider what was the nature of those dangers, as
well as the probability of their being to be encoun-
tered hereafter. in some instances it might be ap-
prehended of altering the succession to the Throne.
That danger, however, could not be dreaded on the
present occasion, in entrusting the Royal power to
the Heir Apparent. In former instances there were,
minor dangers to be feared, of winch no apprehension
could be entertained on the present day. Was there,
he would ask, any more danger in going; the Heir
Apparent the power of making Peers as Regent, than
there would be in entrusting him with the same power
as they must, when, in the course of nature, he suc-
ceeded to the throne of his father ? Why should they
,suppose he would be jealous of the Lords, who would
in all probability be the prop of his throne, and alio
of that of his posterity ? The Right Henourable.
Gentleman had seemed to condemn his own princi-
ple, no sooner had he proposed that the Regent
should have the power of creating peerages, than he
.proposed an alteration. If he were to form a jade,9-
maths
for of the Right Honourable Gentleman's Manta
for so doing, he should regard it as emanating ireful
the hope of obtaining a little popularity in the two
services, and thus catching a few votes that might
otherwise escape him. But were there any grounds
on which they could consistently allow him the power
of so rewarding valour while they restricted him i 4
other cases ? The Right Honourable Gentleman hid
supposed an extreme case—a hero in .all the glory of
triumph dying without his peerage. • But what was'
there in this situation to influence them as the Right
Hon. Gentleman wished ? Supposing a naval or mi-
litary Commander thus situated—if he had lived long
enough to know that be had the thanks and the ad-
miration of his country, would it not be satisfactory
to him to know, that the honours and rewards due to
his valour would be conferred on those nearest and
dearest to him, though circumstances rendered it im-
possible for them to be given at that period to hirp
The ground on which it was proposed to withheld.
from the Regent the power of granting peerages was,
that it was improper for the Regent to do any thing
which was nut authorised by necessity, which the.
King would nut have it in his power to annul on his
recovery. The King, on his recovery, might disap-
prove of the honours so conferred. He might regard
them as part of a change of system—jealousies might.
in consequence arise in the two services, and thus it
might be • more dangerous to allow the Prince to
create peerages as part of a system, than to grant
that power which might only be exercised in an insu-
lated case. The doctrine laying. down the dangers
that might arise from allowing him to give places
for life he thought ridiculous. it was proposed to give
him sufficient a uthority to remove the Ministers of
the Crown—those who called themselves the King's
personal def.:riders. He might remove at pleasure
the Right Honourable Gentleman and his whole
train of right honourabke mutes."—(Hear, hear.)—
Not one of the Gentlemen opposite had thought pro-'
per to assert that he ought clot to have that power.—
He might constitutionally remove the whole of the
Administration, but if he presumed to make a clerk
of the irons, or a surveyor of the melting, why. then
the person of the King was outraged, the royal au-
thority endangered. His Lordship here took a view
of what would probably be the feelings of his Ma-
jesty on recovery, on finding such powers had been
exercised by the Regent. Tee question, he observed,
was net of what it might be proper to suspend or to
abolish, but whether the Regent should or should
not, exercise those- powers ordinarily exercised by the
King? He thought it improper to weaken the Go.
'torment of the Regent by the proposed restrictions,
and was of opinion, that, by forbearing to fill up the
sinecure places, that might fall vacant within a year,
(whether the Ministers of the Regent or of Cie King
should then be in power; he thought such an accu-
mulation of sinecures as might 'lien be at their dis-
posal, would probably be more a subject of com-
plaint than if they were disposed of as they became
'vacant. The sinecures which fell vacant might be
abolished with propriety, but if the disposal of them
was suspended, it would but increase their importance.
He was averse-to making the offices of the`King's
Household permanent. This was not a time for an
increase of state, and therefore when there was an
abundouce of officers who could not be allowed access

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to the King's persons new ett cers oughi in be up; 'lf at the speect of - ti:e Minister, xJ;eu to the
pointed for the Regent, to add to the burthens of thel assumption that it conveyed the Royal sanction, tie
people. But thenet was said the expellee of such an I man entertained a highersespect for the private vie.
establishment would not exceed 14 or £15,009. That toes of his Majesty than
himself.
He would go fur,
might be the amount of the salaries of tlee officers, ther on this subje, t than had perhaps been hitherto
but it was not the extent of the whole attendant ex- gone; and would declare, that, is his opinion, the
Fences of the proposed establishment. As to the Coentry owed more to the,private.virtues and to the
precautions taken to guard the interest and pervert of moral character of his Majesty than to ell the public
the King, expedient as it might be to guard them so measures of his reigns---(Ther, hem., 1:4t.) 80.,
as to prevent any obstacle to his resumption of power wheelie stated this, he could not refrain front pause.
at a proper time, histery furnished them with many dog against the use which lied recently been made ie
histories of usurpations, &c. but where could thee thee House of the general conviction of his Majesty's
find an instance of an Heir Apparent endeavouring vir:ues, in order' to influence the decision °fit (Illellt;011
to dethrone a Monarch enthroned in the heerts of lust which ought to be determined•withuut any teference
people, by such means as creating a few peerages, of el pervert' nature.
giving >may a few aces, and chitheing a few Lot ds ! Cam Y-ORKE. sincerely coneretulated the County
of the Bed-chamber? If they told their constituents of eidge ell posseseing a Repr...seutative who did
that they had placed barriers, to secure the rights of 60 Mlldi ' enour to their chaise as the Noble Lords—
the. King from innovation, they. mould express their The Noble Lord bad equally distinguisheddhfeimt:l:
approbation of their conduct in Parliament) but if by his talents and by his loyalty, although in his argue
they told them that they had done this by keeping a mein he was under the necessity of di:Teeing from him,
few sinecures vacant, and by keeping a few Lords of It was not his intention to occupy much of
the Bed-chamber, who could have no chance of gain- of the House on this exhausted subject; but he would
ing access to his Majesty, the people would then say, ' hitteat their attention, while he stated the circunY
"We will never again be represented by such fools stances of the case before them.—ln the first places
as you." At the rate they went on it was iropossi- his Majesty had been declared by the two Houses of
ble for them to supply the defect in less than a month. • Parliament unhappily incapeble of discharging the
He wished them to consider what was to be dine functions of R2yelty. This declaration was founded
within the course of that month. By the 2d of Fe- oe the evidence of his Majesty's Physicians. Bits
bruary a question of the greatest consequence was to i those Physicians were unanimously of opinion, not
be deckled—the question whether or not we were to only that his Majesty would recover, but that he
go to war with the only Great Power with which we • would recover at no very distant period. What the
were not already at war? The earliest 'period at House was therefore called upon to do was, to supply
which we could hope to see the Regent 'appointed, the deficiency—bin to supply it for a very short pe.
proceeding by Bill, was the Ist of February, so that rind. Many of the arguments, therefore, which had
they world not leave him one day to consider that been urged by the Honourable Gentleman opposite,
important question. What inconveniences, what cm- and winch might have justly referred to the question,
barrassments might not arise from the absence of the had it related to supplying the deficiencifor a lor.g pe-
executive power ! He would suppose that the Bank rind, were irrelevant to the present queatien. The two
of England had a month ago declared themselves un- Houses of Parliament, by not calling on Ministers to
able to procure bullion for the service of our army give in their seals and symbols of office, had plainly
in Portugal—what, under such circumstances, could strewn that they-intended that those officers should
have been done to save the army, and preserve the continue to exercise the executive authority en their
plighted faith of the nation? It was most impnitant own responsibility, until some contreuling authority
that not one hour should be lost in supplying the ex. should be placed over them. Well, it was now pro-
ecutive power. Those who now took upon them. posed to appoint his Royal Highness the Prince of
selves the responsibility had the confidence of nobody Wales to conduct the Government in his Majesty's
but themselves, and were they to be suffered to decide name, with such powers as the two Houses might
on a question of peace or war without controul ? think proper to vest in him for that purpose. He co-
Ought this to be suffered when they knew not what incide& with what was stated by the Noble Lord who
line of conduct the Regent would pursue, and would opened the discussion—that they ought to lay out of
not allow him time for reflection. The consequence their consideration all motives of a personal nature;
might be, he would tine! himself obliged to act with. and ndifillieis uißo)ttidyalit
lger,eicesonres wereexpre osstliidsoseim theniitimen honourtsas
t
freely
out due deliberation. He-could •not. but feel much
for the Kine, hut something ought to be felt for the "consult him on the subject. •His opinion was, do.
Regent, who, in times like the present, took on him. tinctly, that, as the Regency was to be created but
self so heavy a responsibility. It was their duty to for a short time, the authority of the Crown ought
consider the events with which the times were preg. not tube vested in the Regent ; nor could lie find by
nant, and consider if acting as writ prop ised they any reference to Parliamentary history, that, for a
would not endanger the interests of the nation, as short period, such lull power had ever been vested in
well as the safety and honour of the Crown. The a Regent. Much stress had been laid on the prece-
NobluLord concluded by moving, as an amendment, dent of the Act of Philip and Mary ; and it was sad
that the words " subject toiuch limitations, restric. that by that-Acethe Regent was entrusted with the
tions, &c. &e." should be left out in the Resolution. full powers of die Crown, until the infant should be-
Sir THOMAS TURTON seconded the.amend. come misled to the succession. But in that case,
ment. He characterised the precedent of 17S8 as a ,Parliament conferred the authority on the King, for
half formed embryo, the offspring of the lest of Philip was the leingenowirthhs Royaleiy were conferring
Higin
ie;s,
power and the love of place. He denied that it it on a Regent, who was na
was possible, while every other eye in the kingdom the Prince of Wales. The Act of Succession vie
was watching with anxiety the faintest dawnings of . adduced as another precedent in which a Regency
returning reason in our beloved Monarch, that his had been appointed with the full authority of the
;
son should so divest himself of all natural affection, Crown but he denied this. For instance, rte Coen-
as to be insensible to his restoration to health. There cis 4 Regency on that occasion were limited as to
WAS a consideration (rather of a delicate nature) the power of giving the Royal Assent to a Bill. And
which he wished to impress on the House. They could any one suppose that in the interval between
were going to present these resolutions to the Prince the death of (,Queen Anne and the coining in of
of Wales. Were they quite sure that he would ac- George I, the Regency could have made Peters ?No
man, could entertain such an idea. If he went through
cept the office which they were desirous to entrust
ell the precedents which were laid on the Weir of tee
to him ? Might not his Royal Highness consider
the acceptance of that office, so limited, as inconsis- House of Lords in 1788, by a Committee of that
tent with his duty to the Constitution ? 'Might not House, he should be able to slew that there wes not
the other Princes of the Blood be actuated by si. a single instance of Regency without a limita-
miler motives ? .It so, in what a situation would the don. It was clearly established, in his mind, that
country be placed ? Possibly the Right Honoura. he power which ought to be given, was only that re-
ble Gentlemen opposite might say they could go on meted by necessity ; and what necessity was there
without the Sovereign autherity. They :night per. thaerihe Regent should have the power, for a shoe:
haps follow the example set them in Ft auce in the time, of making Peers? It was necessary that that
reign of Charles VI. when the Chancellor set the power should exist in the Royal Authority, but it Was
royal seal to the public documents, and nearly robbed f not necessary that it should be used every day, every
the heir to the throne of the succession. Ile trusted, months or every year. In arguing the resolution re.
however, that these political Sangradoes, who were specting the Household, he would refer to his original.
principle, namely, that the regulation w.:s for a petied.
bleeding and reducing the Constitution, would not
be allowed much longer to continue their destruc- probably short. If the Regency were likely to be
rive practices. lie defied them to adduce an in- long, then it might be necessary not only to trust the
stance in which there had been any restriction Im. Regent with the whole power of the State, but tiles
posed, by Parliament on the power of the Monarch, to consider whether he ought not to be,turrounded by
so as to place a part of that power in abeyance.. all the splendaur 0( the State ?. But he could not see
He then adverted to the various
.precedents which why it was necessary that the Prince Kcgeat of the
had been brought forward, and alluding -particu. present day should for a short time have a grea:er
holy to that of 1785, which had been dwelt upon controul over the household than George 11. when he
with such peculiar emphasis by the Right Honour. was Prince of Wales, possessed during thesis months
able Gentleman opposite, remarked, that the fund- absence of George I. in his foreign dominions ?-11e
ness of the Right Honourable Gentleman for thet doubted whether it was ever in the contemplation of
precedent reminded him of a ' distich which he had any man until the present day, that a Regent for a
frequently heard repeated in his juvenile days, and short time should have any contreulewer the house-
which, adapted to the occasion, would run thus : bold at all. He WAS little acquainted with, the ne-
" Here rands a precedent ; who put ft there? cure of the Household establishment, but he was'pc. -
A better man than you: touch it if you dare!" seeded that if the House, with a view to a short Re.
gency, undertook to separate that household, rti.,
Lord F. OSBORNE declared, that he ielt it to
be a duty which he owed to the ptinciples which to deel•tre what part of it should belong to the Kee:,
had recommended him to his Constituents, to pro. and whetepart to the Regent, they would find it a
test at the original resolution, and a g.tinst the task difficult to perform, and unsatisfactory when per-
arguments which had been advanced in its favour, formed. He allowed that in whatever way the kre-
He contended chit the doctrine on which it was sent situation of the Government was conndeeed, men
founded, was in the highest degree unconstitutional. cons'de 'anion was attended with the sensation of dit.
How could the two Houses of Parliament be said to ficulty and inconvenience. It was for the House te
supply the deficiency in the executive authority if adopt that course which appeared to them to be, one
they supplied it in such a manner as to leave that au. der all the circumstances of the case, the least dised.
thority in a diminishing state ? Let the House vantage ons.
consider the effect which the present proceeding Mr. C. WYNNE regretted that feeling had here
might have in future times. When once by assum. allowed to interfere in the present discussion. They •
ing the power of limiting the authority of the Regent ought to make a covenant with theMselves net to anew .
the principle had been established that it was compe. their affections to supersede their judgment. D...e,)ii
tent to the two Houses of Parliament to make a dif- sensible 'as he was of his duty to the Monarch, he ‘1.15
ference between that and the royal authority, who still more deeply sensible of his duty to the Coast te-
eniest tell but that at sonic future period the princi. don. In no former instance had any part of the Ro let
plc might be used for the purpose of conterring prerogative been impaired by Parliament. It had iXteli
on a Regent an authority exceeding that of the So. lodged in different hands, but it had always been Ai-
vereign ?He denied that the Royal sanction had been lowed to exist undiminished. He contended that in;
liven to the unfinished proceedings of the years 1788 the case of Philip and Mary, Philip was only a ritui4t -
and 1789. With respect to the speech from the King, and with respect to that of George U. when .
Throne, which had been quoted as a proof of that Prhiee of Wales, was it to be forgotten that Ganege 1.
r ncoon, he would say that it most be considered was in the full possession of all his faculties, and. if
r either as the speech of the Sovereign, or as the speech heswas et no greater distance,from the kingdoo !eel
of the Minister. If as the speech of the Sovereign, Hanoier ? It had been argued that only two I.' 7S
adieu to all freedom of discussion in Parliament; had been made in the last tear years, and that ' leo*-
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