Star.
London, England, 1816-06-07 00:00:00

Mier and toSeclde upon the amount of Salary and Cotnpena=kw
to be &leen to certain OMcem of the Institution.
The emir to be taken at One o'Clock precisely.
JOHN GALT, Secretary.
ction6Ulan Asylum Mice,
Chambers, June S,

P.fR.

fAIONTART PROCEIWINGS.

I HOUSE OF LORDS, JUNE IL
Lord BORINGDON wasintrodoced by the Earls of Smarms-
/ WIRT and OLT, as Earl of Moa cat, with the usual care-
monks.
The Alien it, the Irish inland Navigation Bill, Grand Junc-
tion Canal WU, and the Waterloo (late Strand) Bridge Bill, and
others, were 11.-evhten the COllllllllOll9, sod Tea! a first time.
The Earl of I AIHACIIDALE mused for several Accounts re-
lative to the Stair of tint Coin at ptment in circulation, with rule-
rwtee to the pi' •osed new Silver Coinage ; and the Papers were
ordered secnrdityZ He then gave notice, that he would on
1 Tnesday move a-Coounit,ee to examine into the state of the
1 Coln; and Vey& ea this principle—that the new Coinage
would produce good whatever, while it would impose a heavy
expo:lw on theploublic. On the very principles laid down by the
tete Earl of Liverpool, it was ImpossUde that the new Coin could
rennin in circulatien with a depreciated Paper Currency. He
moved that the House be summoned for Tuesday, which was
ordered. _ _ _

The Earl of DONOUGHMORE gave notice, that he would
on Tuesday present the Catholic Petitions, which be ought per-
haps to have presented at an earlier period of the Session, He
named Tuesday, because he wished to consult certain Noble'
I.larda as to the best course of proceeding to be proposed upen
these Petitions. _ _

The Earl of LAUDERDALE moved the second reading of
the Pillory Abolition Bill: the Bill was accordingly read a snood
time, and ordered to be committed for Thursday.
Lord SIDMOUIH gave notice, that he would move the ad.
toad reading of the Alien Bill on Tuesday.
Lord HOLLAND expressed his hope that the Noble Lore.
would be prepared to 'thew the necessity of this measure, and
what was the object of Ministers hi recommending It. hen
they were depriving strangers, by this most impolitic, unneces-
sary, unjust, and extraordinary Bill, as he conceived it to be, of
those advantages which they had for ages enjoyed, the least that
could be expected was, that the object of the measure should be
clearly stated, whether it was to introduce Foreign Ministers into
the internal Police of this Country, or to protect the Constitution
of the Country. It would be necessary, also, to know who were
or were not Aliens, that they might know with respect to whom
they were legislating: and some quer ions on that point ought to
be put to the Judges, in ease the Noble Lord should be able to
persuade the House to adopt the principle of this Bill at all.
The Earl of CARNARVON moved for am Accouct of Aliens
residing in this Country since 1792 to the present time, and the
number of Aliens sent out of the Country during the sane period.
Ordered.

The' LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice, pursuant to his
,practice, of the iotention to propose to-morrow the clause in a
Divorce Bill ( Abdy's Divorce we believe) for preventing the in-
termarriage of the offending parties.

816,

of the •seeter4.t4.seri ts, and that
expenditure of Al ,100,000 *tilting it in round
To that was to be added: for the Wind-
sor Establishment, 4173,000, nesiang the whole
£1,275,000. The sum now proposed to be fixed
was £1,339,000 which, excluding fhe expense of the
Windsor Establishment, which arose lout of extraor-
dinary circumstances, )41 only 466,400 as the addi-
tion now made to the average of -1811. The open-
ing of the Continent had increased the,expenditure for
Ministers abroad in no less a sum in one year than
£150,000. Part of this, he admitte4, would not be
necessarily permanent ; but still the xpense in this
branch must necessarily be larger *in it had been
for some time before. The queetts# then was, what
was the best course to supply the deficiency ? Parlia-
ment had, in 1131.2. contemplated ',nod sanctioned an
increase of 4120,000i.ind upon the whole a sum of
£250,000 remained unprovideti kr.. 'That might he
Sonde good in two ways--either *adding to the
Civil List revenue, or by witlideawine. certain charges
from the Civil List to that af00t...7.410 be voted is
another way. The latter coarse seemed to be the
better of the two. As the principle of a fixed :eve-
nts for the Crown had been adopted, it was desirable
that the articles of fluctuating expenditure should be
separated from it, and there could be no objection to
bring all the articles of fluctuating expenditure an
nually before Parliament. His Lordship then ad-
'vetted to the office of Auditor appointed in the Bill,
which would be useful as a check on the Civil List
expenditure, and bring that expenditure more under
the controul of the Treasury. The salary of this
officer was to be 41,500 a year ; but offices in the
Lord Chamberlain's department, to the amount of
42,600, and in the Lord Steward's department to
the amount of 44,700 were to be abolished as they
fell. To obviate certain prejudices respecting the
supposed enormous expenses of the royal personal
establishment, his Lordship stated that the total ex-
pense was little more now than it was in 1760. In
this arrangement no expense was proposed which
was not for the support of the proper dignity of the
Crown, and for the advantage of the public.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN observed, that as
no inquiry had been made in the other House previ-
ous to the passing of this Bill, it would be in vain
for hini to expect that an inquiry by Commit tee would
be agreed to by their Lordshins. That, I owever,
was the mode of inquiry which certainly oe:ilit to
have preceded. a measure of this kind, in order to
ascertain whether this addition of an expenditure of
42.50,000 to the public burdens WAS or was nut ne-
cessary. To one part of the principle of this Bill he
assented—he meant that part which separated cer-
tain articles of fluctuating expenditure from the Civil
List : but as to what might be required for the per-
, song establishment of the Sovereign, lie wank; not
go to other countries for illustrations, and least of all
to that country which the Noble Earl had mentioned
—a country which had been remarkable at different
periods, for the most servile devotion to a monarch,
and for the most decisive hostility to monarchy alto-
gether. It might be hoped that the state of that
country at present was considerably removed from
both extremes ; but if the restoration of the King of.
France was the restoration of the old principle of
government, the illustration was one which certainly
had no application to this country. In other coun-
tries, the splendour of the Crown might be one of
the chief engines of government ; but here the case
was different, for in this country the Sovereign re-
quired no greater revenue than that which was ne.
cessary to support the proper dignity of his station,
without making his splendour a chief engine of go-
vernment. The ground and principle on which Par.
liament had acted with respect to Elio crown revenue,
both at and since the revolution, must have been
this—that as the personal expenses of the Sovereign
were, or ought to be, fixed and certain, it was for
the advantage of the Sovereign, and also for that of
the public, that the revenue should be fixed and cer-i
tain also. This was a sound principle, and it was
for that reason that he assented to the separation of
the articles of fluctuating expenditure from the Civil
List, and he never had been able to understand on,
what principle they had been suffered to remain there.l
Whether this addition of 4250,000 to the public hue-
dens was necessary or not he did not knew, as no in-
quiry had been permitted : but assuming that it was
necessary, Ministers ought to have seized the occa-
sion of this new arrangement to take other branches
of fluctuating revenue out of the hands of the Crown
.fpr the public benefit. The droits of the Admiralty
belonged to the Crown, but not more particularly
than any of the other sourcespf revenue which had
been taken into the hands of the public.• Under
every Administration it had been thought proper to
have recourse to the Droits of the Admiralty to
supply the deficiency of the Civil List. Why, then,
when the public was called upon to make good this
deficiency, were not these Droits of the Admiralty
taken into the hands of the public ? The arrange-
ment would have been for the advantage, and much
more consistent with the dignity, of the Sovereign ;
because then, the Sovereign, instead of coming to
Parliament is forma Morris, Would give some com-
pensation to the pub tie for this additional allowance.
As to the necessity of imposing some check on the
Civil List expenditure, the experience of the past
abundantly proved it : but he saw no great security
from this officer, who had no power to check the ex
penditere of the heads of departments, and appeared
to be of no manner of use, except perhaps to facili.
late the exercise of any cotstroul which the Treasury
might have: the only effectual controul would be a
Parliamentary one, and not. that of an officer re-
movable at pleasure. The arrangement, then, in his
opinion, ought to have been much more comprehen-
sive, and to' have included all the uikcertain revenues
of the. Crowe upon a proper allowance being made
by the public for the expenses of the Sovereign, not
upon the principle of French splendour, but with a
view to that which was necessary for the maintenance
of the Reasonable and solid dignity of the station.

. • .
e.,• . , .
t
4. J , . r
ifet, '•' • -
144,_.., -N air
_____. • ,
,_ 1.

44Tt

PRICE SEVEN-inNCRe.

Lord HOLLAND concurred in the principles
mentioned by the Noble E irl, and sots oily sorry
that his Bel and his statements were completely at
variance with these principles. His statements ape
peered to be intended to shirty that there had been nO
abuse in the Civil List expenditure, and yet the Bill
established this new office of auditor, with.n salary of
£1,500, in order to check abuses in that expenditure.
He could, therefore, place no great confidence in the
statement that there had been no abuses. The plea.
ciple stated by the Noble Earl was, that it was rea.
sonable to make additions tit the Civil List according
to circumstances, because the Crown had been de-
prived of its fluctuating revenue ; and yet when the
large addition of 41250,000 was made to the Civil
List allowance, the Droits of the Admiralty were
still kit in the hands of the Crown—a species of
fluctuatine revenue of the most dangerous tendency
to the interests of the country, and the peace of man-
kind. while it was suffered to cootinne in the bands-
of the Crown. The Droits of the Admiralty could be
considered in no other light than as a bonus to go to
war, thus giving the Crown interests at variance with
those of the people. Inducements were thus held out
to embroil the nation with foreign states for objetts
purely personal to the Sovereign, in order that, be-
fore a declaration of hostilities, a greater revenue
might be swept into the Civil List Exchequer. He
agreed with his Noble Friend (the Marquis of Lana-
down), that the hereditary revenues of the Crown,
which had been so much talked of, did not belong to
the Sovereign without the consent of Parliament ;
that they were within its controul, and were left with
the Sovereign merely in consequence of arrange-
ments; but even allowing the exclusive title to their
enjoyment to exist in the King, when the Noble Earl
(Liverpool) claimed. them, he had forgotten what
the country had done to supply their place to the
Civil List. He had forgotten the debts incurred by
ithe Crown, and paid by the Legislature ; he had for.
gotten the debts contracted against the law of the
land, in opposition to Acts of Parliament, and in
contempt of the interests of the country. Did not
the House know, did not the Noble Earl know, that
in 1782 Mr. Burke had said, in the discussions that
took place on his Bill, that the Clown could, after its
passing into a law. incur no debt, because no debt
tould be legal ? But u hat followed ? f-I id the Crown
never incurred debt ? Often since had we seen term-
mons debts paid by the nation, theugh coat-Aced
contrary to law. Taking into account the grants
made at frequent iatervels to tee. Crown ; taking into
account sums paid from the Consolidated Fund for
the purposes of defrayii e what wetild formerly have
been Civil List expenditure; addinte• to that the
amount of debts paid at different periods ; and then
joining to the whole the £BOO,OOO bareeined for by
the Crown mettle beginning of the present reign as its
fixed revenue, he would venture to say that the ex-
penditure of the Civil List had exceeded thrice the
sum then contemplated by Parliament. Let not elle
House and the country then be told that the Crown
had been strictly economical—that it had kept down
its expenses—that the country had had few calls for
exerting its liberality—that the whole measures of
Government were conducted on the most moderate
scale. He was not now prepared to go into the cal.
culations and statements necessary to substantiate the
opinion he had given : but be had no doubt that oa
a subsequent occasion, by entering into detail ip the
Committee, or in some stage of the present Bill, he
could prove what he had stated with regard to the
excessive expenditure of the Civil List. The Droits
of Admiralty applied to defray the charges of the
Civil List constituted an enormous sum of them.
selves. The Noble Earl took credit to the Crown
for applying this revenue to pay the debts of the Civil
List, and while providing a measure that would ren-
der it necessary to contract no farther debt, he still
wished the Crown to retain its hold over these extra,.
ordinary means. The Noble Earl was not entitled to
gain two objects that appeared to be inconsistent. He
could not in fairness to the country exonerate the
Civil List from all fluctuating charges by giving it sh
fixed income, while he retained, in addition to that
fixed incense, a fluctuating revenue. If the Crows
was freed from uncertain expenses, it was not equita-
ble that it should have an uueeitain ificome in addi.
tion to what was thought a sufficient estimate for
supporting its splendour. in addition to the Droits,
the Crown exercised a right over the 4s- per cents.,
and many of the charges, which were foimerly paid
by its hereditary revenues, were now defrayed out of
she Consolidated Fund. He would not enumerate
all the sources of the Royal revenues, but he believed
there were four or five still unmentioned by him.
The Noble Earl had maintained an opinion in which
he concurred, that the Civil List expenditure of this
country, applied for the purposes of royal magnifi-
cence and useless splendour, was less considerable
than the revenues enjoyed Ly continental Sove.
reigns for supporting their state and dieesier ;
but whet was this to the purpose ? Why were
we to draw precedents fir our justification or
palliatives for our excesses, from states where liberty
was not understood, where our happy constitution
was not enjoyed—where the prerogative of the crown
was every thlig, and the privileges of the people no-
thing ? GOD for bid that we should compare ourselves
with the arbitrary and despotic governments of the
Cuntineno and rest contented merely by not being
in so bad a situation as the people uoder them. If
we were determined to compare ourselves with fo-
reign states, let us look for 4 people whom ode re-
sembled in the democratic part of our Constitution.
as well as in the monarchical. Let us fix upon Amite
rice as a point of comparison. It would be answered
that the Governinent of the United States was Repub.
lican ; but had not ourown government 3 Republican
branch ? Was it neat owing to the copular part of
our Constiteti m that we lied transcended all the
other European nations ; that we had advanced to
such a high pitch of improvement in the arts of
peace,
and had developed such energies in the late
struggle' We should not, therefore, disdain to

, . .
• .
..
• • •• • 1
74. ' • . • •kt,r•-••: • • • ,
t.,
• t---' •
J • 0,--... , _ -,, '' s --" -..
.* '' " - 1.
•,. ,e.
• Irk p• . il; ,# \
- _ . ....7 4 •*2,..r,
40.143
Ji , ..;
sr
..,,
..-,.....--..... . .
....- •••,
„........._
. _
•k
it FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 1
wiIickCALEDO MAN ASYLUM. an average oi
A SPEC L GENERAL COURT of - the gave an expel'
CI. GUARDIANS of this COaPORA I'ION, will be holden numbers. Tc
here on MONDAY, the 171 b instant, to Twelve o'Clock, to Cr.. sor R 0,144111