Star.
London, England, 1803-12-15 00:00:00

TOLUNTAIR PXFMPTION ACT.

Mr. YORKE moved the Order of the day for the 3d
reading of the Bill to amend the Volunteer Ails.
Mr. WINDHAM role. He began by complaining
of the hafte with which he confidered Minifters were
pulling this Bill through the Houle. The whole la.
tory of the Bill filmed it ; for ‘A hat was the princi-
ple on which it was founded, but that of mending
the defeats of a former Bill ? What was it, but to
correa the imperfalions, and remove the ambiguities
of former meafures ? Dr. Johnfon had told us, that
there were two ways of cempotition ; one was, by
confidering deeply, and forming a great naafs of
thought, which was all properly arranged before it
was put to paper ; the other was, by letting down
the thoughts, jolt as they came, without Confidera-
lion or care. To follow Dr. Johnfen's idea, he
would fay, there were alto two modes of Legiflation ;
one when meafures were carefully confidered before
they were brought forward ; and the other, when the
heft ideas that happened to enter the heads of Mi.
sifters were thrown together in a Bill, and were car-
ried into laws, which almoft immediately required
frefh laws to explain and amend them. He recol.
idled fome lines which faid,
" Poets would forfeit half the fame they've got,
" If it were known what they difcrertly Noe
A Smiler kind of blotting he would very much recom-
mend to his Majefty's -Mit:Wert, whole only merit
vitiated in the confeftion of their numerous errors,
and in the tardy manner in which they correaed the
blunders thq committed : but then they willed to
hurry through the Houle the confeffion of their im.
perfations. He could not, however, fee why the
Houle Ihould not have the benefit of another day.—
#3e had already Rated what he thought ferious oh-
)(Aims to the Bill. There was a great power vetted
fornewhere. In lONIC Corps it was in the individual
who was the Commanding Officer ; that was in the
monarchial cla's of Corps. With others, it was in
the Committees where the democratic form predo.
minuted. Thefe powers, it might be Ilated, had not
been abufed : very likely they had not, in any cafe,
but they may he fn. It was riot prudent to calculate
upon their eternal purity. The enormous price of
fob/litotes had become a fubjeft of univerfal animals.
meta. Fifty guineas are frequently given, and per.
baps 4.0 guineas was the average rum. Now, in many
cafes, this fum would be the ruin of a man who was
drawn. We had to make up the deficiencies of the
two bodies of Militia and Atmy of Referee, and like.
wife the annual conl'umption of the Regular Army,
out of the population left after dedriecling our 400,cm0
Volunteers. But the falltionable cry was, why object
now to any part of the Volunteer lyllern, alter it has
been completely decided upon, and univerfally adopt-
ed ? It this machine, called the Volunteer fyflem, is
confirmed, it will ultimatety be found necelfary to
greafe the wheels; they mutt have money. Their
robferiptions might, in many cafes, loon fail them,
and tl.,:y molt ci.m. upon the puulie, as was the cafe
in the bloonifbut y Ahociatinn, (the St. George and
St. The fs item, the farther they pulled,
became urn re nbieEttor..A.!c—

•• Who (Inert , and walks aftray,
• Get• but the far:ter trt,r3 I i• way."
I had been deemed abford to objce, to the regulation
o clo..hing all the Voluntezrs :n red. that ob-
j :tion was n••t abliiid, beca:ife by that regulation it
was evident for what purpof.s they were :wended.
They are all brought Erward n the fame tiainirg.
The Vol:inlet. v come forward, anJ fry, " We come
v.itt, zt:al, parr intitin, courage, c. rdiality, good a ill,
tee. &c.;" but it is the :bot;1•.1 put
them into A right way of beccrning I,•r:t grey
I.tmed to have contrived to pot the Vo:untsers into
the writ poiEble train; to LAIC don; every thing to

their power to tnake then of as little utility as they
could. With refpeal to the efTeas of the fyllem upon
recruiting, it had been faid, that it had only diminiffi-
ed it by one third ; but will any man fay that the
• Regiments fill ? When they recruit inch paltry num-
' bers in the courfe of a maath, it was nothing to talk
about proportions. In petty numbers proportions
were not worth confideration. It was not worth de-
fcending down to fraflions of men. Recruiting was
now lower than it ever was fince recruiting was call-
ed recruiting. If it be laid, that it has kept up fince
the war commenced pretty even, why what would it
not have been, had it not met fo many checks ? War
was the time favourable to recruiting, and not peace;
for in war there was a fpirit of animation and enthu-
tialm that led people forward, and which did not
operate in time of peace. By altering the formation
of the army by the neeefrary high bounties, by de-
arnying all competition, this [late of things was
brought about. Men, in fad, would gn as foon into
the regular army, nay former, if properly encourag-
ed, than into the Army of Referve This he had
known in a variety of cafes to happen. We might
have done infinitely better than to have adopted this
plan of the Royal Army of Receive. But he hoped
we fhould loon have a fair opportunity of reviewing
the whole conflitution of the army. If ever thisfuh-
jea came again before the Houle, he had only to hope
that Gentlemen would turn their thoughts to it, and
give it a candid and minute attention.
Mr. IitLEY ADDINGTON role in reply to Mr. Wind.
ham. Ile raid, that as the Right Hon. Gentleman
had teemed to with to have the lea word on the fub-
jea now before the Houle, las flould hope to be per-
mitted to exprefs for the firfi, and perhaps the laft
time, his fentiments upon it. There were many
points of the Right Hon. Gentleman's fpeech on
which he willed to make a few olskrvationa. In
the courfe of it, he had Rated, that the fuhfcriptions
which had been railed to pay the expence of the for-
mation of the Corps tif Volunteers would loon be ex-
haufted, and then that they would be obliged to call
on Government to give them affiaance for their fu-
ture maintenance. Nothing could be more futile
than this obfervation. In the fira place, he con-
ceived that the Right Hon. Gentleman was com-
pletely misinformed in fuppofing that a fubfcription
was railed at all for the formation of Corps of Vn.
lunteers. He believed, that there were many in-
fiances to the contrary ; and he could affure the
Houle, as one inflance, that towards the formation
of a large Corps, which he had the honour and hap-
pinefs to command, there had been no fubfetiptinn
at all. The men were aflually clothed out of the al-
lowance made by Government, with a very inconfi-
derable addition ; and he felt a pride in flitting that
not the fmallea objettion had been made by one in-
dividual to clothing of that defcription. Where
there had been fubfcriptions, he conceived that it was
direded principally to this object, and he was there.
fore at a lots to conceive how Government need ap-
prehend, even in the molt diflato perfpealive, that
any call would be made on the public purfe, and af-
ford any affillance, efpecially as it was generally
underflood that the clothing was to laft three years.
—He then adverted to the affertion, that no lets
bounty than col. per man had been given to Substi-
tutes for the Army of Referve. Gentlemen on the
other tide of the Hnufe were fond of adverting to
what merely palled in the metropolis. To that he
could not (peak ; but he could Alert, from his own
knowledge, that in the county in which he refided,
the price of a Subftitute was from 20 to 25 guineas.
In the fame way the Right Hon. Gentleman bad
argued on the fubjet of Committees. The fclitary
instance had been Rated on a former night of a Corps
being governed by a Committee. 4b Irmo efifie
owes' was hardly a fair way of judging. lie had
feen many Corps of Volunteers, and had heard of
more, but knew of no fuels regulation. The fyflem
was a bad one ; nothing fhould induce him to hold
any coinmiffion in fuch a Cot ps, or to have any thing
to do with it. It was an unfair mode of arguing, to
infer, that becaufe there was one, it mull be the ge-
neral defcription of Volunteer Corps. He had read
fuel' arguments of late, but little espeaed to have
heard them urged by Gentlemen of enlightened un-
deraandings. As to the injury done to the recruiting
fervice, it had been completely anfwered by the
flatement of the Secretary at War, and by other
Gentlemen. Faits could not be clone away by the
look and vague opinions of individuals. They were
unanfwerable ; and he amitld not dwell on this ob-
jection. He meant nothing offenfive to the Right
Hon. Gentleman in what he was going to add : it
would not be fufpealed of him. He mutt once for
all exprefs his grief and Alonifhment, that the Right
Hon. Gentleman Should have adopted, and now per•
fevere in a courfe of language, difparaging, difcoun-
tenancing, and difcredittng a defcription of men, on
whole Cervices the fafety of the country not a little
depended. The Right Hon. Gentleman, perhaps,
delptfed popularity ; he certainly was not difpofed
to court it. If he at all valued it, lie might be al-
lured that every corner of the kingdom echoed its
reprobation of the language which he had held (ince
the meeting of Parliament. People could not corn.
prehend—pollerity would fearcely believe—that in a
moment of danger to unparalleled, one individual
could be found, who would gravely Arcot, that
400,000 armed Britons were not only ufelds, but
even injurious to the intereas and defence of the
country. Was the Right Hon. Gentleman fo grofsly
ignotant of ancient and modern hittory, as not to
be able to dikover, in almolt every page of it, in-
fiances of what had been Achieved by the valour of
freemen, without the aid of military difcipline, cer-
tainly the hell ally to valour, when armod in defence
of their liberties and independence ? Such examples
would not he 1011, he was confident, on his country-
men. If real danger fhoula prclent itfelf, what might
not be expelled from men animated with one (pion,
tired with an unexampled unanimity to take arms in
defence of a Monarch whom they loved, of a Conai-
tution which they revered, of an independence which
Clay cheriflted, and for tla proteaion of every thing
that could be valuable and precioas to them AS men
and as Englifnmen ?
Mr. Wiensram, in explanation, Alcoved, that he
had never laid that 4.0i0,000 men in arms would be
of nn ufc.

Mr. Alderman Peter :Irf,:rided the cubfcriptcr;:. to
the Curpt, in the metrcpt,lis, and was confid:l.l that
yca.-: would not end their refources. The Vo;tinteLrs
of London had nr•t coma fill ward ms.rety to make a
plaything ttttir 011,1 rcd COAS ;

they did not confine 'hemlines to twenty or thi;ty,
or even fifty days, but they were conflant in their
attendance on their military duties, and deiirous of
leatning all the military mancruvres of the regular
army. They were not regulated by any Committees
for military purports ; thofe Committees relating
only to other arrangements. They would be very
glad to have Adjutants from the regular forces, but
they did not fee the neceffity for Field Officers. Se-
veral Corps had even found the means of haying a
regular Adjutant, and paid him as well as he was
paid in the army. The lubftitute-money in the City
was, on an average, from zz to 26 guineas, except,
perhaps, when perfons had been drawn, and found
their own fuhflitutes at a higher rate. The Volun.
leers, he was perfeely fenfible, would be found fully
qualified to undertake whatever was affigned them,
and were refolved to do honour to themfelves, and
jullice to their country.
Colonel CRAWFORD vindicated his Right Hon.
Friend (Mr. Windham) from many mifconceptions
of his opinions in that Houk, and mifreprefentations
out of doors. He had not fpoken again't the Volun-
teers as individuals, but he had fpoken againfk the
fyllern that Government had adopted for the defence
of the country, and which he thought was a worfe
way of defending it than another mode which he had
recommended. That Right Hon. Gentleman cer-
tainly never meant to fay, that .too,ooo Britons in
arms were worth nothing, but he had confidered that
encouraging the recruiting fur the regulars would
have been a better way of defending the country. As
to the introduttion of Field Officers, he thought they
might be well ("pared from the regulars, as it was
well known that there was, at leaft, twice the number
of commiftioned Officers in a battalion in the Eng-
lifh fervice, than what are employed in any other. He
alio perceived this wide diftindion between our regu-
lars and Volunteers. Our regulars were tried troops,
and we could fruit one of their battalions with con-
fidence againft a French battalion; but with what
anxiety would we fee a Volunteer battalion going to
engage a battalion of French ? It had been a Edition
to 'peak of the French armies as conapofed of mifera,
hie confcripts, not animated by that fpirit and ardour
winch diftinguifhes our Volunteers. Now he could
nr,t avoid Paying, that the French armies were cer-
tainly equal to any others in Europe; and although
cur foldiers, he believed, to be equal to them, he
would not flatter the British army fo much as to fay
they were superior. The French were a military
people, and their foldiers were alfo full of enthufiafm.
.Sir Wst. You NC repeated the obfervations he had
made on a preceding night, with refped to the differ-
ence between the Volunteers of the laft war, who en-
tered merely from motives of patriotifm, and the
great body of the Volunteers of the prefent day,
who entered finer the time that the Levy en Matte
At had put them in requifitinn. This was another
great evil in the Volunteer fyftem : it not only ex-
empted a great number of men from fervice in the
As my of Referve and Militia, hut the particular clafs
n km were Co exempted from retying, was ufually the
unmarried men, from eighteen to thirty, and the
ballott fell principally on the married men, or thofe
above that age He concluded by paling very high
encomiums on the charader and talents of his Right
Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham.)
Mr. CALCRAFT believed, that very high bounties
had not been given in the City of London, as it was
conceived that would be letting a bad example ; but
the confequence of their not having done fo was, that
there was a great deficiency in the complement which
the City of London ought to furnith—there are 'fru-
ally more recruits iR proportion to he got at the be-
ginning of a war than in thi continuance of it, as the
commencement of a war generally castles a floppage
in the manufactories, an 4 thole who are difcharged
go to enlift at the nearell place where they can get
any bounty; but in the cooirre of a war, men bidding
againft each other as at an andion, railed the bounty
very confiderably.
Mr. Secretary YORKE laid, he knew nothing of any
advice lathy, given to the City of London with re•
fped to the bounties they fhould give : he recolleded,
however, that there were Come refolutions of the
Drapers' Company, to the effed slated by the Hon.
Gentleman.

Mr. GILES (aid, that he had read the Aft of De-
fence, and found that there was a difference between
Volunteers, who were accepted, and thole who came
forward for voluntary fervice. In the county of Hert-
ford, the number accepted was about 2000, and there
were exempted from the Militia and Army of Re.
fcrve. But there were 6200 who had voluntarily come
forward, without being entitled to there exemptions.
It could not, therefore, be laid, that they were afluat-
ed by any other than patriotic motives.
Dr. LAWRENCS entered into a long and laborious
apology and panegyric of his Right Honourable
Friend (Mr. Windham). That Right Honourable
Gentleman, and thole who afted with him, were not
prompted in their Parliamentary exertions by any
vain purfuit of popularity, but were fwayed by a
Ready and confcientious regard to what a fenfe of
duty impofed upon them, and which the good of
the community evidently appeared to require, Im.
potent attempts had, however, been made in many
parts of the kingdom to ditlort and difcredit the
opinions which his Right Hon. Friend had delivered ;
but a great majority of the fenfible and enlightened
part of the country, where his Right Honourable
Friend was known, not only approved his concluft,
but were unanimous in adopting the fentiments which
he had let down. The people furely were much more
mifchievoufly milled by thofe who in times of fuch
danger and emergency, taught them to prefer tem-
porary to permanent advantages. Such was the con-
duit of thofe who accufed his Right Honourable
Friend and himfelf of oppofing the genre of the coon.
try. But his Right Honourable Friend never had
objelled to the whole of the Volunteer fyliem ; but
limply contended, that the propoled plan of exemp-
tions would neceflarily counteraft the effeEt which
might have been expefted from Winging hue aftion
the flower of the armed population of the country.—
That could be done only by adopting fume known
general plan of regulations, and by putting the Vo.
lunteers on a better footing without any exemptions.
Many were the folitaty intlances which he might ad-
duce in proof of his affertions ; but a reference to
them, in which tome Gentlemen were fond of in.
Llulfting, would tend to an unneceffary prolanctation
ra the debate, to which he was a verfe. (A cry cf Htar!
Lear! and a laugh). The Learned Member concluded
with acculinE Milt. of ,Ming away' from 'licit

, duties, Ihd declaring that he would always feel preod
of having ;Vied with his Right Hon. Friend, in r.,,.
' pofition to their fytfem, whatever animadvei riots
might be made upon him in that Houle, or whate..r
calumnies might be propagated ref-inning him out
of door s, becaufe he was equally latisfied of the pu.
rity of his Right Hon. Friend's motives and the pro.
found wifdom of his political conc:ptions.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCH EQE Ell began by Cur.
ing that the Learned Member had concluded with.*
very heavy charge, indeed, upon his Majefty's Mini_
hers, namely, that they had deferted their duties and
had given encouragement to a fpirit of calumny ; but
to whom the charge ofdealing in groandlefsllander and
detraClion molt properly applied, he would leave it
to the Honk and the public to judge. Of the duty
of a Member of Parliament he was fully aware ; and
no man rerpefted that duty more than he did. He
knew that, confillently with that duty, every Member
of that Houle was bound to examine and entitled to
(late fully his opinion upon every public meafure. He
()mold be Corry to fee that difpofition damped by any
fear of animadverfion, or that the exercife of fuck an
important right Ihould become the fubjeel of calum-
ny. He admitted fully that a flatelman fhould prefer
the interefts of the people to every other confidera.
Lion, and that unpopularity fhould not refirain hint
from purfuing the courfe of meafures which his judg.
ment prefcribed. For popularity, properly under.
flood, he profeffed the hig,heft refpeet, and fhould
always feel a proper folicitude; but that Minifters had
ever betrayed any idle, vain with for popularity in
the fy Item they had idled upon, as had been infinua.
ted, he mob pointedly denied. To what part of their
conduff could the charge of endeavouring to court
the people, be applied ? Was it to be detefled in
their financial arrangements ? Was it in the quan-
tity of taxes they had impofed on the country ? It
would be recollaled on this point that immediately
after the conclufion of the lab peace, an addition was
made to the public taxes which was equarto half the
amount of the whole intereft on the national debt
previous to the war which that peace terminated, and
at the commencement of the prefent war, a further
addition was made of twelve millions. From this it
appeared that not lets than :7 millions were added to
the taxation of the country within the (hart (pace of
fourteen months. That is, not lets than (even mil-
lions more than the whole inter of of the national
dein previous to the commencement of the lab war.
The financial proceedings therefore of Miniilers could
not be laid to manifelt any very prong difpofition to
conciliate popular favour; and could that difpofition
be feen in their condua with refpea to the military
and naval departments? bid their keeping up so,ooo
feamen during peace, together with a large military
ellablifhment, imply an extraordinary define for pa.
pularity ? In a word, did not every meafure of Mi.
nifters carry with it the determination to provide for
the honour, the interefts, and the fafety of the coun-
try ? He would put it tothecandour and common fenfe
of any man, whether in their proceedingsthey were in
the leaf} degree influenced by any bare, n nmanl y, difho-
nourable with tocourtpopularity,andwhetherthey had
in any inftancefhewn the (till more difhonourable will
to dettael from or calumniate anymember for the per-
formance of his duty ? For himfelf and his colleagues
he could fay, they dcfpifed a praftice fo illiberal and
In vile, and he was equally certain that his Right
Honourable relation (Mr. H. Addington), to whore
words Tome allufion had been made, would contemn
any thing like it. The words alluded to, which were
merely, that the fentiment which the Right Hon.
Gentleman (Mr. Windham) no doubt, thought it hi*
duty to deliver in that Haute, made a very unfavour-
able impreffion abroad ; and that his o'bfervations
upon the Volunteers were particularly ill received.
No doubt, however, the Right Honourable Gentle:.
man felt his condo& jullified in his own mind, but
yet it was very natural to ruppore, that the difpofition
he had upon all occafirma Inewn to depreciate the
Volunteers, would be confidered a very ungracious
return to them for their patriotic zeal, and for the
diligent application of their rime to' acquire a know.
ledge of the means necedary to defend their country.
That his Majelly's Knitters atteMpted by any !means
to traduce the charaaer of the Right Honourable
Gentleman, was an unfounded accusation ; but that
they complained of his condor, was an undoubted
fag. They complained of the Right Honourable
Gentleman, and the Honourable Gentleman who
afted with him, becaufe they condemned indifbrinsi.
stately every meafure that they had taken fince their
accellion to his Majefty's confidence. They com.
plained of the Right Honourable Gentleman, becaufi
he reprobated their arrangements relpeaing the mi:
litia, though that body was conflitnted precifely as it
exiled at the time that Right Hon. Gentleman was in
office. They complained of him, becaufe' he called
forth all his efforts to decry the fyhem of the Voluft-
seers, although it was no deviation whatever from.
that which prevailed, when the Right HonourakJe
Gentleman was in office. But now it appears that
the Right Hon. Gentleman would prefer an armed
peafantry ; in Taft, it was, becaufe he arraigned every
thing they propofed, that they complained. The
Right Honourable Gentleman on the cubic& of the
Volunteers, had always argued as if Minifteri looked
to that body as every thing, which they. regarded
only as an important ingredient in the public force:
They felt that at was a principle never to be loft fight
of, that our fecority materially depended on the di-
4erf.6ed conßration of our national army, and that io
a country rowed as ours is, it would be impoffible
to array in a regular army, any very confiderable
portion of our population; becatife it would be incon-
fillent with their induflry and their habits, and inju-
rious to the vital interefts of the nation. .
to the Volunteers, we had, it was to be

a regular army and a militia, much great
existed at any periodOnjwhich the Right 1
man was in office, and yet, he was heard

to allege the inadequate (Lilt of prepc
defence of the country. Among the GI
of attack upon Knitters reforted to by
Hon. Gentleman and his advocates, it was
that they uniformly took the deduaionr

own reafoning as fath, and generally ref
as filch. They concluded that at the peal
lar force of the country would be u
tkerefore; that it was reduced; but the
he hid made enquiry to afcertain it,
wh,,le of the infantry only tgoo men I
charged, or whcin sOOO were from the
ins under fixed and orherivife mid for .
datelined of di. Wen Hon. 4011km:a

. In addition
e remembered,
rater than ever
it Hon.Gentle-
rd perpetually
nation for the
ingular modes
by the Right
was obfervable
ons from their
relied nn them
iraCe the repw
r educed. • and.
faEl srta and
that from the
had been dif•
guardst as be.
fervice. -,The
in way there.

ti

fore, as to this point, open which he and his coadjotors
had often dwelt, egregioully exaggerated. Their af-
fections, with reified to the progrefs which recruiting
for theregulararmy had made since the commencement
of the war, were equally groundlefs. For, on the con-
trary, inftead of fuch recruiting being at a Hand, as
they alledged, the army had obtained 7000 recruits
from that Army of Referve which that Right Hon.
gentleman fo ftrongly condemned; and upon a corn.
parifon of the period which elapfed fence the war com-
menced with the fame progrefs of time during the
laft peace, it appeared that more men had been ob-
tained by recruiting within the former period, not.
withflanding the competition which ordinary recruit-
ing had to encounter in the high bounties offered for
fubflitutes in the Army of Referve, the amount of
the Militia, and the exemptions granted to Volunteers
in the one inftance, and the folicitude which mull
have Jilted in the other inftance to fill up regiments,
and the facility of obtaining recruits in confequence
of the Militia being difbanded, &c. This confidera-
lion would Curtly be admitted by the Right Hon.
Gentleman to be a ftrong proof of activity in the re-
cruiting fervice, -and it mull be evident that his ap-
prehenfions upon this head had been quite unfound
ed ; for upon the whole it would appear that the re-
gular army had obtained, within the fhort (pace of
(even months, no Ids than 15,000 recruits. So much
as to the outcry raifed by the Right Honourable
Gentleman and his party, as to the !late of our
means for the defence of the country, and the exer-
tions which Minifters have made, feconded by the
erifdom, energy and zeal of Parliament and the peo-
ple, to give to every department of the public force
ample refources to meet the exigencies—to avert the
dangers of the prefent crifis, and to oblige the enemy
to feel the vanity and wildnefs of the calculations
which urged him to occalion that crifis.
Mr. We NDHAM denied that he ever meant to dif-
parage the Volunteers ,--and Paid that his remarks
upon the reduction of the army previous to the com-
mencement of the war, referred to the ditlanding of
the foreign corps in our fervice. which was a proceed.
ing that he would ever condemn.
After a few other remarks by the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, the Bill was read a third time and
paged.—Adjourned.