Star.
London, England, 1811-01-18 00:00:00

place the Government in such a stale u that, In ease
of his Majesty's recovery, he weight find the Preroga-
tive as nearly as possible in the situation in which he
,left it; and he thought that, instead of the Prince's
conceiving that what was done was meant as any
distrust of his Royal Highness, he would ra-
ther be induced to look forward for faithful servants

to those who had so steadily discharged their duties
to his Royal Father—(rear, hear, Afar.) With re-
spect to what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said
about Pensions for life, they stood exactly on the same
ground with Peerages, only that they were not of
such high importance ; and therefore, during the
short time of the restriction, they could do but 'little

towards weakening the power of the Regent.
Mr.TIERNEYsaid, that alto the-first part of what
had fallen from the Right Hon. Gentleman, he had
heard it without surprise. As the Right Hon. Gentle-
man had gone so much on precedent through the
whole of the proceeding, he did not wonder that he
had looked to precedent for a speech to make. The
speech which he had just favoured the Home with
was the same that Mr. Pitt had made in 1789. (A
lasigh,) and any body might find it in the Parliamen-
tary Register. He could not, however, see any reason
why the Regent, acting in behalf of the King, should
not have the power equally of granting pensions.—
The civil list was limited in its amount by law, and
the four-and-half per cents. were, as the Right Hon.
Gentleman stated, much burdened ; but it some of

those burdens should fall off, he could not see why
the Regent should not have the power of conferring
pensions upon them. However the Right Honour-
able Gentleman might flourish away upon his Lode-
pepdence, the public would believe that this most
flourishing and disinterested Gentleman might have
something lurking in his mind, which merely aimed
at depriving the Prince from giving away any of the
good things during his Regency, in order. that he
KMr. Perceval) might have more to dispose of, if the
ing should recover. They might think, that when
he made such a flourish about standing by his beloved
Sovereign, he really meant the standing up for his
beloved self and his beloved colleagues. (A larch.)
He thought, however, that thoss who re dly stood up
for the country, would wish the Regent to have the
power of so rewarding services, that meritorious ser-
vants of the state should not find themselves deserted

in their old age.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT made some objections
with respeit to the pension-list of Ireland.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
replied, that all grants made by the Regent could be
confirmed, until his Majesty's pleasure should be de-
clared to the contrary.
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, the Clause requiring the residence
of the Regent in Great Britain was altered by insert-
ing, instead of Great Britain, the words " the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland." The clause
was then agreed te.
After some fur.ner clauses of the Bill had been
read, and agreed to,

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that he had now come to that clause on which
some difference of opinion might be expected. He
meant the clause respecting his Majesty's household.
He found that he had no very easy duty to execute in
endeavouring to propose a plan which would meet
the opinion declared by the House already upcn the
subject. Although he found this difficulty, yet in the
exceptions that were to be made to the offices relating
to th Household which ought to be subject to the
contr, it of her Majesty, he thought it was probable
that there would be different opinions, and therefore
he left a blank in the Bill to be filled up by such
offices as should be agreed on by the House. It was
his opinion that the officers of the Household, who
were now !ermined in the service of his Majesty.
should not be liable to be removed by the Queen, or
any other—that any vacancy which might take
place from death, during the continuance of the
Regency, should not be supplied,. and that no new
officer should be appointed. As to the Office of Lord
Chamberlain, which was now vacant, he thought
that it ought not to be filled up, but that the du-
ties of the office should continue to be discharged
by the Vice-Chamberlain. The Gentlemen of the
Bed-chamber (under which term was included the
Lords of the Bedchamber) !ught not, he thought, to
be removed during the Regency, but should be consi-
dered as belonging to that part of the household under
the controul of the Queen. All the great officers of
the household were at the head of departments, which
were connected with the personal comfort of the King,',
and ought not, as he thought, to be transferred to.
the Regent. There were two officers who, being kept
merely for State, he thought ought to be placed un-
der the controul of the Regent, and those officers were
the Yeoman of the Guard, and the Captain of the
Band of Pensioners. The Equerries, he thought, also,
should be left as they are, and not removeah-le by her
Majesty. He thought that now, when sanguine
hopes were entertained of his Majesty's recovery
within three months, the great object should be to
preserve the domestic arrangements he had made
as untouched as possible. The Steward of the
Household and the Master of the Horse were also
at the heads of great departments connected with
his Majesty's personal comforts ; and he therefore
thought, they should be under the controul of her Ma-
jesty, but liable to be removed. The Groom of the
Stole, on the same principle, ought to be retained. He
had, upon a former, occasion, stated distinctly his opi-
nion, that in point of feeling and delicacy towards his
Majesty, every thing connected with his person should
remain as much as possible in its place ; so that'his
Majesty should not, upon his recovery, have the pain
of finding his favourite domestics removed from his
service. As to the degree of state that it might be
necessary for the Regent to assume, he did not think
that any consideration of economy should prevent it.
Suppose that it was thought necessary that the Re-
gent ,1
should have a Lord Chamberlain, a Master of,
the Horse, a Steward of the -Household, and five or
six Lords of the .Bed-Chamber, all those appoint.
meats would not together, in salary, amount to much
more than a sum of £12,000, which would really be
an object of little value in point of expence, as it
would only be a payment for one single year. These'
appointments would, he supposed, be sufficient for
the splendour of the Regent's Household, without
deranzing the Household of his Majesty. He CCM-
eluded by reading the clause where .the controul bf
the Household was given to her Majesty, with that
exception of certain offices therein named.

Han.
made

Mir POIN*SCRIM'Y
Gentleman's statement of the endeas,
to produce a plan agreeably to the
by the Honse upon this subject; as ft al
him, that nothing could be more ppposite t
dared intention than the measure which the _
Hon. Gentleman now proposed. How could be hen
supposed, that in the Resoltitien which the Heuse
already came to on the subject of the Households
they only meant that the Yeeman of the Guard,
and the Captain of the Pensioners, should be trans•
ferret to the Regent, whiie all the other officers
were to remain under Cie contreel of the Ceuit.
The Right Hon. Gentleman would even leave the
Master of the Buck-hounds under the controul of her
Majesty. What was the occasion ter this ? It was
true that when his Majesty had his sight, he was fond
of the exercise of hunting ; but now that he is com-
pletely deprived of that arimsement, how could it
conduce to his personal comfort that the Queen
should regulate the department of the buck-hounds ?
The intention of the House in the vote they had
come to on the subject of the Household was clearly
this—that every thing which was necessary for the
public and splendid exercise of the kingly power,
should be reserved for the Regent—but that every
thing which merely related to his Majesty's perso.
nal comfort, in his present unhappy state, should
be under the controul of the Queen: When his
Majesty's Ministers supposed the Sovereign to waken
from his trance, and find some of his servants
changed, if they really did suppose that that circum-
stance would be likely to throw him back again into
his present state, they would hardly be able to per.
suade the House or the Country that such an imper-
fect sort of recovery would be sufficient to make him
fit to govern the country. He differed totally from
the Right Honourable Gentleman in principle, and
thought that it was clearly the intention of the House
that the Household should he 'under the controul ofthe
Regent, except such parts as for the reasons there ex-
pressed were to be given to the Queen. The Right
Hon. Gentleman now proposed a measure the very re-
verse of this, subjecting every thing to the controul of
the Queen except one ur two moot inconsiderable offi-
ces. He should therefore move an amendment agree-
able to what he conceived the spirit of the Resolution{
and after generally expressing that the management
of the Household should be with the Regent, he
would state the exceptions which he thought ought
to be made of offices immediately connected with the
Royal Person, the care of which was to be given to her
Majesty. Of the offices which were immediately con-
nected with the comfort and dignity of the Royal Per-
son, he thought the Groom of the Stole, a certain num-
ber of Lords of the Bed-chamber, (suppose six to he se.
lected by her Majesty) the Equerries, and all the infe.
rior offices in the Royal Palace. These officers, he
thoiight, should he under the control of the Queen. But,
as to the great Officers of the Household, the Stew-
ard, the Master of the Horse, or the Lord Chamber.
lain, in their offices, were for the splendour of the
Monarchy, and could add nothing to the personal
comforts of his Majesty in his present unhappy situa-
tion. The functions for which those offices were cre-
ated could not be performed at all, unless they were
performed for the Regent : and if those officers were
to be placed under the cons eel of the Queen, it
would be impossible to make the public believe that
there could be any other reason for such a diseosi.
tion, except to deprive the Prince of a considerable
part of that influence which every other Governmeet
had possessed. The opinion of the people, as far as
it had been hitherto expressed, was for mekieg the
Prince unlimited Regent. They had already on their
table the petitions of the City of London and the
town of Nottingham to that effect; and there could
be little doubt but that this sentiment was general.
At the same time that he would wish that the lie.
gent should have the controul over the Household is
general ; yet as to that portion of it which was to be
confided to the controul of the Queen), he thought that
she should have a power much more absolute than the
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Perceval) had proposed.
That Right Hon. Gentleman had proposed placing
almost ail the offices of the household under the con.
troul of the Queen ; but that she was net to have
power to remove any officer, even in case of tire most
flagrant misconduct. What sort of a controul was
this which would give the Queen no power over any
one of his Majesty's domestics ? He, on the con-
trary, wished that her Majesty should have the
absolute controul of that part of the household which
came within her province, and that the Regent should
have the same controul over the rest. He then r
peated the names of the officers who ought, as he
conceived, to be under the controul of the Queen.--
They were the Groom of the Stole, the Master of the
Robes, the Keeper of the Pi ivy Purse, the Lords or
Gentlemen of the Bedchamber, the Equerries, and all
the interior officers in the Royal Palace. The propo-
sition appeared to him perfectly simple and agreeable
to the spirit of the Resolution of the House. He could
not believe it possible that his Majesty, on his return
to reason, should really feel mortified at finding that
his eldest son, being appointed Regent during his ill-
ness, had made a temporary disposition of those of-
fices which his Majesty could revoke at his pleasure.
He could not believe it possible for such a feeling to
enter the mind of his Majesty after his restoration to
health. He concluded by moving,
" That a portion of bis Majesty's Household shall be placed
under the controul of her Majesty, viz. the Groom of the stole,
the Master of the Horse, the Keeper of the Privy Purse, such
please to select, his Majesty's Equerries, and another Os: clear;
Lords and Gentlemen of the Bed-chamber as her Majesty may
may be personally attendant upon his Majesty in the palace in which lie is actually resident. That the Groom of the Stole shall
have jurisdiction and authority over all such Officers, as
the jurisdiction and authority that ntiElit have, been lawfully exer-
cised over them by the late Lord Chamberlain and that may be
lawfully exercised over them at present by the Steward of his Ma-
jesty's Household and the Master of the Horse. That the Grooms I
of the Stole grail provide *terry thirlg that may be necessary for
his Majesty during his indisposition ; and that, for that purpost,
he shall have maney appropriated to his use, as has been hereto-
fore done to the use or the Lord Chamberlain, the Steward of
his Majesty's House:iold, and the Mister of the Horse."
Mr. CANNING trusted that he should not be ccn-
sidered as unnecessarily objecting to the original mo-
tion of his• Right Hon. Friend, or as undervaluing the
amendment of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite,
if before the Committee entered into a discussion on
the merits of the twcpmpositions, he should submit
to them more in detail than he had hitherto done, his
opinion on the subject. The first principle en which
all appeared to agree was, that during the lamenzed
illness of his Majesty every thing should be done, cat
only to denote the tender care and solicitude of his

111 surer, ate nOt Hon, 7;
ht of the endeavcltsfs he had made
reeablv to the opiritniz expressed 5
this subject; as ft ap red to
ild be more ppposite tlieirde.
the measure which the itsghtl/4
v `reposed. How could be have
e Resolution r-hich the Heusi
the subject of the Household,
it the Yelman of the Guard,
the Pensioners, should be trans.
r, whiie all the other officers
er t!:e controul of the Ceutt.
ritleman would even leave the
'minds under the controul of her
the occasion ter this ? It was
ajesty had his sight, he was fond
aing ; but now that he is corn-
that ariursement, how could it
‘ir.al comfort that the Queen
lepartment of the buck-hounds ?
House in the vote they had
ct of the Household was clearly
ig which was necessary for the
exercise of the kingly power,
Or the Regent—but that every
related to his Majesty's perso.
present unhappy state, should
nl of the Queen: When his
upposed the Sovereign to waken
id find some of his servants
ly did suppose that that circum-
y to throw him back again into
y would hardly be able to per.
he Country that such an imper-
would be sufficient to make him
ntry. He differed totally from
4e Gentleman in principle. and
learly the intention of the I- use
rould he 'under the controul ofthe
parts as for the reasons there ex-
ven to the Queen. The Right
e proposed a measure the very re-
ng every thing to the controul of
ur two most inconsiderable offi-
fore move an amendment agree-
ei ved the spirit of the Resolution{
expressing that the management
hould be with the Regent, he
ptions which he thought ought
immediately connected with the
re of which was to be given to her
ices which were immcJiately con- '
ort and dignity of the Royal Per-
;room of the Stole, a certain num-
ed-chamber, (suppose six to he se.
y) the Equerries, and all the infe-
)yal Palace. These officers, he
'der the control of the Queen. But,
ers of the Household, the Stew.
!'e Horse, or the Lord Chamber-
, were for the splendour of the
ild add nothing to the personal
:sty in his present unhappy situa-
s for which those offices were cm-
:rformed at all, unless they were
egent : and if those officers wee',
the controul of the Queen, it
to make the public believe that