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TOOTILACII.

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PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS.

HOUSE OF LORDS, JANUARY 2S.

The Duke of MAI

took the oaths and his seat.

The LORD CHANCELLOR informed their Lordships,
that the House had waited nn his Majesty with the Address;
and that his Majesty returned a most gracious Answer, which
his Lordship read.
The Answer was ordered to be entered on the Journals.
PETITIONS IN FAVOUR OF THE QUEEN.

Lord ERSKINE presented Petitions from the fol-
lowing places :—the Boroughs of Banff, Dumfries,
Montrose, Selkirk, Aberdeen, Arbroath, Brechin,.
Crieff, and other places in Scotland, praying that
the Queen might be restored to her legal and consti-
tutional rights.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Lord EItSKINE also presented a similar Petition
from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Commons of
the City of London.—Ordered to lie on the table.
Ldrd DARNLEY said, he held in his band a Pe-
tition from a numerous body of Freeholders of the
County of Kent. agreed to at a very large Meeting,
which had been called by a great number of indivi-
duals, in consequence of the Sheriff of the County
having refused to convene a Meeting after a Requi-
sition had been sent to him for the purpose--a Re-
quisition more numerously signed than any ever be-
fore sent to the Sheriff of that County. It was signed
Ly himself, by his 'Noble Friend near him, and about
two hundred other Freeholders of the first respect-
ability in the county ; yet the High Sheriff of Kent
refused to pay any attention to it. The present was
not a proper time to discuss this question ; but he
conceived it highly necessary to consider how far a
Sheriff was authorised in refusing to comply with a
Requisition coming from a large and respectable
body of Freeholders, upon a question of great na-
tional importance. Indeed, it was a subject well
worthy the attention of Parliament, for if the Execu-
tive Government should select none but its own ad-
herents to be Sheriffs of Counties, and if such per-
sons conceived themselves bound to act up to the
wishes of their employers, the Counties of the king-
dom might at last be prevented from assembling in
a legal and constitutional manner, and be thus de-
prived of all means of expressing their sentiments on
great public questions. By that means all those
provisions, which, during the discussions upon the
Bills of last year, were said to have secured the right
of meeting and petitioning, would be nugatory.
. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, he wished to
make some remarks upon what had just fallen from
the Noble Lord. lie could declare upon his honour,
that no appointments were more regular and consti-
tutional than those of the Sheriffs of Counties—they
were appointments strictly judicial. Three persons
were first named by.the advice of the Judges ; and
then one of these was selected by the King in Coun-
cil : and he assured the Noble Lord, that, in such se-
lection, there was no kind of partiality, nor any refer-
ence to the political opinions which the individual
chosen might be supposed to entertain. This much
he felt it necessary to assert generally ; but as to the
individual point referred to by the Noble Lord, he
had no opinion whatever to give.
The Earl of DARNLEY replied, that the Act of
last Session prohibited Meetings from being held in
the open air ; and be wished to know how the Free-
holders of a County were to meet, if the Sheriff re-
fused to convene in a legal manner? The point he
alluded to, was the possibility of having Sheriffs ap-
pointed in a different manner from what they now
were, so that the great abuse which now existed
might be prevented.
Earl GROSVENOR felt it necessary to declare,
that the abuse alluded to by his Noble Friend had
been carried to a most dangerous extent, not only in
the refusal on the part of these Officers to convene
'Meetings when required to do so, but by their illegal
and unwarrantable conduct at Public Meetings, atter
the same were called. Conduct of this kind had
recently taken place at a Meeting of the Freeholders
of the County of Chester, at which he happened to
be present. The Mecting had been convened for the
purpose of presenting what was called a Loyal Ad-
dress to his Majesty. On that occasion, he thought
it his deny to move an Amendment, fully agreeing in
all the loyal sentiments contained in the Address, but
disapproving of the conduct of Ministers. As soon
as this Amendment was moved, the Sheriff objected
to put it: be then objected to it as being irrelevant
to the object of the Meeting—decided that it should
not be put— and, without consulting the opinions
of the Freeholders present, took upon himself, of
his own authority, to say, that the Address had
keen carried, although he had previously said he
would divide the Freeholders to ascertain their opi-
nions ; instead of which, he refused to do so, and
suddenly broke up the Hall, without coming to any
determination. This circumstance proved the irre-
gular conduct of Sheriffs, and their unwarrantable
assumption of authority. The Sheriff of Cheshire'
took upon himself to declare an Amendment to be ir-
relevant, without taking the sense of the Meeting on
that point ; and by this, and his subsequent conduct,
a great part of the Freeholders were deprived of their

right of voting. The Sheriff was a mine ministerial
officer, and he had no right to deeideip the wiyhe
did, and therefore he was guilty of a gross violation
of his duty. This gross violation of the Peoples
rights, was a fit subject for some future discussion in
Parliament. Much as he had heard of the conduct
of Sheriffs in different parts of England, this act of
the Cheshire Sheriff appeared to him to be the most
outrageous and monstrous of all.
The Petition of the Freeholders of Kea was then
read by the Clerk : the prayer of it was, that the
Queen might be restored to all her rights.
The Earl of DARNLEY observed, that in moving
that this Petition do lie on the table, he had a few
words to say 'on the latter part of it—that which'
prayed for the restoration of her Majesty to all her
rights. It would be recollected, that at the com-
mencement of the late proceedings against the Queen,
the case of her Majesty had come before the other
House of Parliament; and their Lordships must be
aware of the solemn resolution by which that House
had expressed its disapprobation of those proceedings.
He, therefore, hoped their Lordships would follow up
that resolution, and restore the Queen to those rights
of which an attempt had been made to deprive her by
his Majesty's Advisers; and he also hoped that every
thing would be done which might tend to promote
the tranquillity of the country, by calming the agita-
tion which had so universally and unhappily pre-
vailed. When the proceedings in question first came
before that House, he asserted, that the act of erasing
her Majesty's name from the Liturgy, was the foun-
dation of all that agitation. It was at once an act of
impolicy and injustice, and this he had already de-
dared to be his opinion. If this act of injustice was
not done away, he now declared that he would take
another opportunity of calling the attention of the
House to this subject, and endeavour, by a separate
motion, to dissuade his Majesty' Ministers from a
course, which, if persevered in, would lead to irre-
parable mischief.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, that in the ab-
sence of a Noble Friend of his, he should present a
Petition which bad been agreed to at a most nume-
rous Meeting of the Freeholders of the County where
he resided, convened by the Sheriff of that County.
The Petitioners declared their attachment to the Go-
vernment of the country, and accompanied that de-
claration by strictures, most respectfully worded,
upon the late proceedings before that House. The
Petition, indeed, did not contain any expressions of
horror against sedition or blasphemy ; if it had been
necessary, such expressions would have been most
readily introduced. But he had the satisfaction to
say, that after having informed himself as fully as
possible on this subject, throughout the county in
question, where he had the honour to reside, there
prevailed an universal spirit of religious and correct
moral feeling, and that no part of the kiagdom was
more free from the circulation of licentious and sedi-
tious publications. He thought it necessary to say
this much, on account of the declarations which
were sent forth by certain classes of people on this
subject, and of the delusions that appeared to pre-
vail in some parts of the empire relative to licentious
and seditious writings.
The Petition was then lead ; it was from the Free-
holders of the County of Wilts, in which they re-
gretted the late unconstitutional proceedings against
the Queen; prayed that her Majesty's name might
be restored to the Liturgy ; and that all the obstacles
to the enjoyment of her rights might be removed.—
Ordered to lie on the table.

The Marquis of LANSDOWN presented a si-
milar Petition from the Town of Devizes.

Earl GROSVENOR presented a similar Petition
from the County of Perth.
Lord HOLLAND presented a similar Petition from
the Coi poration of Nottingham, but afterwards with-
drew it in consequence of an informality. His Lord-
ship next presented a like Petition from the Corpo-
ration of Hammermcn, in the Town of Perth ; and
another from the Churchwardens, Overseers, and Pa-
rishioners of the ,Parish of St. Saviour's, Southwark.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed that all these
Petitioners seemed to labour under a great error;
they all spoke as if they considered the Queen to have
been deprived of her rights and privileges; which was
not the fact.

Lord HOLLAND replied that the Petitioners did
not positively say so; but many persons of high au-
thority in the law were of opinion that the Queen
was deprived of her rights, and that she ought to be
prayed for as other Queens of England had been!—
What the Petitioners then prayed for was, that she
should be restored to those rights which belonged to
the Queen-Consort of England ; that she should have
a palace ; and an income, which she did not now pos-
sess, should be granted by Parliament. No one could
say that she was now in the situation which any
Queen-Consort had ever been in before, for she had
been a considerable time without any fixed establish-
ment, or the means of having one. The object of
the Petitioners then was, that she should enjoy those
rights that were withheld from her, and that an ex-
tinguisher should for ever be put on all unhappy dis-1
cussions respecting her Majesty.
Earl GREY presented a Petition from Perth
against the present Ministers. He also presented Pe-
titions from other parts of Scotland, and one from
the Alderman and Inhabitants of the Ward of Bi-
shopsgate, in the City of London.
The Earl of CARNARVON said he held in his
hand a Petition from the County of Hants, which had
been agreed to at a most numerous Meeting of the
Freeholders, convened by the High Sheriff. On this
occasion he thought it necessary to take notice of an
attempt that had been made by several of high rank
in the county, to prevent this Meeting from being
assembled. These persons, among whom was a
Noble Duke whom he then saw in his place, stated
as the grounds for objecting to this Meeting, that
the sense of the freeholders had already been taken
in a Loyal Address to the King, which had been
signed by a numerous body of freeholders: and on
that ground they declared their opinion that it would
be improper to assemble the county. In answer to
that objection, he would undertake to say, that a
more numerous or respectable assembly never was
collected together in any county than in that in which
the present Petition had been agreed to: and it
would appear that the signatures to that Petition
amounted to several thousands; and that there was
not a single name in it but that of a freeholder, or a
respectable landholder. The number of signatures
amounted to between sewn and eight thousand.—

This Petition spoke the general sentiments of all thel
independent men in the county ; their Prover was,
that their Lordshiptwould not permit any new pro-
ceedings to be instituted against her Mesty, and ,
that her name might be restored to the Liturgy-
They hoped that no more detestable proceedings
would take place, awl that Ministers would not at-
tempt such an act of madness as that of trying to
place the House of Commons in opposition to the
general sense of the Pyblic out of doors. If any
such attempt were made, he hoped that it would
fail. The Petition contained the names of many
persons who had heretofore been the firmest sup-
porters of Government.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that as Lord
Lieutenant of the county of Hants, he had conceived
that it was not right that those who had previously
sent a loyal Address to his Majesty—an Address
that had been signed by nine thousand persons, should
sanction the Meeting that was afterwards called by
the High Sheriff. After the sense of the freeholders
had already been taken, and when he knew in what
manner the Meeting called by the Sheriff was c. in-
ducted, he could not consider it in any other light
than that of a mere farce—(Loud cries of lkar,
hear).--At that Meeting, the Members for the
county were present, and one of them was treated
in such a manner as to feel it necessary to be pro-
tected by the Noble Lord. Surely such a Meeting
as this could not be considered as one that spoke the
sense of the county ?
'The Earl of CARNARVON rose, and in an im-
passioned tone of voice declared, that it was with
astonishment and dismay he heard the Noble Duke,
who held so high a situation in his Majesty's Coun-
cils, and who bore so high a character in the coun-
try, say that a Meeting regularly convened by the
Sheriff of a county, was a mere farce. If such a
sentiment as this was to be allowed to go forth from
high authority, it would soon follow that the people
out of doors would be inclined to sly, that the pro-
ceedings of that House were nothing more than a
farce. Indeed, he bad reason to suspect that this
was only a part of the unconstitutional system long
pursued by his Majesty's Ministers, and which had
already produced so many evils in the country.—
Was this.to go on at a time when the People were
anxiously expecting a system of conciliation, and a
removal of their grievances ? The Noble Duke had
conceived it unnecessary that the farce of a County
Meeting, legally convened, should take place, be-
cause many persons had signed a Petition, got up in
a private, and of course in an unconstitutional man-
ner. 'Was it not str2nge to say, that because so
many, say nine thousand, had signed a loyal Ad-
dress to the King, the other freeholders of the county
were to be denied the right of holding a Meeting, in
order to express their sentiments? When the Noble
Duke expressed his wish to support the King and
the Constitution, how much of the Constitution was
he willing to retain? Did he mean to deny those
rights Which the People had exercised from time im-
memorial ? Surely, if any one thing was more dear
than another to the Constitution of England, it must
be the right of freeholders to meet in their counties
in this way. But the Noble Duke thought this right
a matter of no consequence. How, he would ask,
had this Hampsh;re loyal Address been got up, and
fi,av were the signatures obtained? He would tell
heir Lordships : it was proposed at a private Meet-
ing, and was afterwards accompanied by Pastoral
letters, sent round most indecorously for signatures,
to the several Ministers of religion, whose situation
in life ought to have withheld them from every inter-
ference of this kind. It was avowed by the Under
Sheriff of the county, that this circular letter had
been tent round by a person who acted as Secretary
to the Pitt Club. It was said that the Member for
the county could not obtain a hearing; and the Meet-
ing must be condemned and called a farce on that
account. But he would ask, how often did it hap-
pen that certain Members of the House of Commons,
who spoke things obnoxious to others, or who car-
ried their speeches to a tedious length, found it diffi-
cult to obtain a hearing even in that Assembly ? The
fact, however, was not such as had been stated ; for
the County Members did obtain a Fearing : and had
the Noble Duke been present at the time, and wished
to speak, he also would have been heard.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN said, he fully
agreed with everything which had been said by his
Noble Friend on this subject. With respect to what
had fallen from the Noble Duke, it was but courtesy
towards him to suppose that with his wonted gallan-
try, he had resolved to defend the Counter-requisi-
tionists of I fampshire, without having made himself
acquainted with the subject on which they had re-
monstrated. The complaint of those who sent their
Requisition to the Sheriff was, that the County had
not been called at all. A certain Address, got up
no one knew where, and which no person had the
power to alter or modify, was privately submitted to
the people of Hampshire; and, after it obtained a
certain number of signatures, it was represented as
conveying the sense of the County. An assertion
was made, that the sense of the County had been
sufficiently taken by this private mode of proceeding,
and that therefore the County should be precluded
from meeting in a constitutional manner. It was with
great regret he heard the Noble Duke apply an epi-
thet of derision to this exercise of one of the most
valuable rights of Englishmen, by which alone men
could give their opinions on, and canvass, the state
of public affairs. This farce, as it had been called,
was one which had long constituted the most valu-
able rights of the People, and to which many Lords
Lieutenant of Counties had given their sanction, by
convening County Meetings. It was only a year ago
that such Meetings were convened in almost every
County of England, when such farces were resorted
to, as a constitutional mode of approaching the
Throne !—(Hear).
The Duke of WELLINGTON said, it never was
his meaning that County Meetings ought not to be
held, and that people were not to give their opinions
in them; but when the County was called by a mob,
when that mob, after being assembled, allowed none
to be heard but those who were on their own side of
the question, and when those who differed from that
mot were obliged to seek protection against its vio-
lence, then he would say that such a Meeting was
nothing but alone. He never objected to any con-
stitutional mode of meeting; but he ever would ob-
ject to a Meeting that consisted of a mob, wherenone
but those on one side were allowed to be heard.
Lori HOLLAND asked, it the Noble Duke's ot-

jection rested at! the circurhstance of sotle
the Meeting not being allowed to speak, r
he say to those who carried everything
with closed doors, and in places where r
could be heard? Was it to be understood
other Meeting, except stich a Meeting a,
farce? Then-if Addresses drawn up at
ings should obtain a certain number of
they, forsooth, sufficiently expressed the
Counties!—As to one person applyin7 tt
protection at such Meetings, an instance
occurred at the Oxford Meeting thect!,(
he himself did endeavour to protect a
who was at last heard; and he deoied th,
any unwillingness, either at the Redfot
Meeting, to hear those who spoke even
sense of the persons assembled there.
Noble Duke's view of this question wxt
unconstitutional ; and it were to be tai.
would extend to all who either spoke or wt
on political subjects, the same mercy wilt
Holland) extended to his Grace. Indee,
sons, acting on the same principle Witj
Duke, might say, that the Constitution
try was a mere farce. He could not su
man of his great military characte, was
the Constitution, yet he charactelizt!d on,
parts of it by the tremendous epithet of ;
The Earl of LIVERPOOL conceiver
Friend's meaning to be, that if a Cow
however lawfully convened, was to be ci
a mob, not of freeholders, but of others
it on purpose to effect a certain object
violence, such a Meeting must be a faro
Meetings could be in practice what
theory, they would be among the rot
rights of the Constitution—and partici
they could be held legally in the Count,
stead of the open air. At present, howev'
not the Meetings in which fair and rat
sion could take place. Ile would not
say whether this was the character of the
shire Meeting. As to the objection made
ing about the Address for signatures, he
in what other mode could the 9,000
that Address be obtained ? %Vas it post
to be all present at one County Meetin)
such occasions, the respectability of th
was to be looked to as the most materi:
belonging to the Address. The value of
Meeting must depend on the circumstance
parties having a fair hearing.

Earl GREY said, he did not expect ,
the Noble Lord any reflections upon Count,
ings, after what he had said in praise
year, when he was defending the Seditii
,Bill. On that occasion, the Noble Lor,
of the Treasury had observed, that then
to prevent the -Freeholders of Counties
cising their constitutional rights in Meeti
convened by the Sheriffs. He had, In
to defend the expression of the Noble
however, he ought to live rescued trom
'tion of having depreciated so valuable
constitutional rights as County Meeting,.
objection could be urged to the Meeti
shire? WAS it not proper ly formed ?
called in the manner in which every 1
ing ought to be called ? Was it not m(
and respectable? And did not the pets°,
against it obtain a hearing? In all str
there would be collisions and different.,
and much noise; and did not such thin,
happen in Parliament ? Now, he WOW
ther County Meetings, convened for tin
addressing the Crown, were the most
Could anything equal the disorderly con,
loyal Gentlemen who attended the "
Meeting? But of this sort of conduct
recent example much nearer home. He
the Meeting at the Mansion-house on
day, where those, professing themselves
loyal Bankers and Merchants of London, western
disorderly and outrageous in their conduct. Ire
regard to the Hampshire Meeting, what•was thew
duct of those who sent about a Loyal Address? I
little junto prepared the Address in secret, and 1101
in a scandalous manner, caused it to be hawked Am
for signatures by the Ministers of Christianity. k
when the parties opposed to them required
to convene an open Public Meeting, where
freely express their sentiments, they were
junto, that the sense of the County had •
sufficiently expressed. Could anything
decent than an act of this kind, by which
of the County were to be prevented from
their constitutional rights?

The Duke of LEINSTER complained
duct of the High Sheriff for the County
in suppressing the deliberations of a Put
there, and causing a body of armed soli
the Freeholders out of their Court-house.
The Earl of CARNARVON vindic;
spectability of the Meeting from which
emanated.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH had heard
the expression made use of by the Noble
did not, however, understand the Noble
ply the epithet of mob to all County Itlo
merely meant, by using the obnoxious pl
scribe the state of confusion which ex,
particular Meeting. He (Lord Ellenborot__
with great pain the manner in which the proceedings
of Meetings were recently conducted ;
he did tict
mean that his regret proceeded so much from tr
conduct of those present, as from that of those wt's „
chose to absent themselves from Public Meetings. !ri
for instance, the 9,000 persons Who, it was 04
signed the Counter-Address in the County of atns4
had attended the Meeting where a Petition
agreed to, signed only by 8,000, the former wok
have outvoted the latter, and given a degree ,
weight and interest to their Declaration, which Der
ther could expect to possess.
The Petition was read and laid on the table.
NAPLES.
Earl GREY rose to call the attention of the Na
Lord Lord opposite (Liverpool) to a subject connected. witb
our foreign policy. He had been unsuccessful in
ba
attempt to obtain answers to the questions which
.7
had put to the Noble Lord on a former night, who
led him to fear that he would obtain no informal's
on the present occasion. The Noble Lord must ,bei
aware that a circular letter had lately been addresall
to different Continental States, and, among (WWII

/tte perso.
L te
:/ Wolla oneift
g
nn .'
of
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sF siritiza
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ell
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undertake Pr
be late It dt
Ale to the
he would ask
signatures L fa
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ng ? And cc
:be signatases
rial ingrethem tta
every Corny to
Lance of peek IS
•1
tto hear Eros 1111
County Mee.
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rd at the bad Pr
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cs from env ui
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Duke, win al
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e a vart of
fir. list wbat a°
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County M•• E
nost nurr.er, dr
son V6lO Llp dl
'Alettnit
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so
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ould AA of
the purpose lit
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induct nt a
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-le alluded tai
the precedieg .21
ves to be the hi

ed the Sheri ;if
re they migit fot
e told by de ad
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be more i Sp
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rn exerciat we
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iblie .Nleetig
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th
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Duke to ip• in
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phsrdase,attOthdci: P
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