Star.
London, England, 1817-05-20 00:00:00

don of the Committee, and he was happy to inform
he nitslit IbinourAble Baronet that he had prepared
a clause which he meant to prnpose for insertion in
the Bill.

Sir J. NEWPORT—. Then I am satisfied."
To. Order rat Olt for reading the Compensa-
tion NI:
Sir ROBERT HERON rose. He could not con-
sider this BM in any other light than a gross (but as
he fondly trusted vain) attempt to impose on the peo-
ple of EnJand.- The offices which were proposed
to be regulated were lett in the power of the Trea-
sury for regulttion, but when the House recollected
the manner in which the Treasury had regulated
offices formerly, as for example in the Civil List,
there could be little doubt how they would act here.
The abolition of offices was agreed on, but it was to
take place only at the death of the person holding
the place. He was ..bliged when alluding to thin.
to differ from some of his friends for whom he had
the sincerest respect, for he could not see on what
grounds it could he maintained that because a man
had for ten years held an office acknowledged on all
hands to be useless, that therefore he should hold it
for twenty years longer, and that because be had ob-
tained twenty thousand pounds of the public funds,
should Obtain twenty or thirty thousand pounds
more, especially at a time when we were on the eve 4 4
not being able to pay even what was due to justice.—..
It was worthy of notice here, that when t• e questiou
of taking away the rights of the people by Suspen-
sion Acts was beflie the House, then 4 few days de- j
lay was thotight too much, but when the question
was, not of taking away individual rights, but of re-
storing things to their proper sources, then no delay
was thought 'too limy, for it was better that the peo-
ple be diseprointeJ than sity:curists lose ; and theta
fore the people must wait till the (dice holder, ex
litre before they obtain relief, and that relief would
perhaps come when many of those who 11./10 asked it
were dead. The Bill for cDmpensating Use hotd:rs
of offices 'was most likely to Ise abused, and indeed
one would naturalty k at 1-Ir this measure Minis-
ters. wished tn Oftivr.the ceople to say, "Give us back
the system of sinecutel, but ktep thtt Compensation
1111 to yourselves;' and, in tact, no wu tderoor the
Butt itself was hounded in fallacy. It was a new point,
ttiat high offices should be a qiiestioti of pectins.ll.
compensation. Formerly the offices of Teller's in the
Exchequer were given to Lnrd Chancellors as a"ri-i
ward fur their high services,' and sometimes to their
sons, as in a case well known', but a 13111 had fieen
latterly introduceJ and passed for granting pensions
to them, thus reserving tile Tellerships as an object
for political ambition and political intrigue. The
people had been taught by demagogues to believe
that their only remedy lay in the abolition of sine-
cures, atid Ministers were certainly much indebted to
a certain orator in Palace-yard for such ill•foundeo
harangues, as he hid done them by it the most
essential service.—(flcar, hear, hear.)—Every ii,-
deprnden: man in the country ts,!ew cos to be the
case. and here he could is help thinksti•• that the
Committee had lent itself too nsuch to .the Niches
of Ministers, and the 1-1 nese knew well what these
wishes were. If there existed any d .uht of these
wishes, he would only beg the House to contemplate
the conduct of Ministers during this and ti e last Ses-
sion of Parliatnen.. In the last Session they put the
word " Economy" into the Speech delivered from
the Throne, which, perhaps, was one of the greatest
possible insults that could be offered to the Illustrious
Person exercising the functions of Realty, or a
mockery to the people. Yes, while the pleasing words
hung upon our ears, Ministers, who had thus insulted
their Master and the Country, were detected in en-
deavouring to raise the salaries of offices. which had
even been increased, and whenever any Measure of
economy was proposed, it was always stoutly resisted.
At last, however, in one instance popular feeling
(even though it was stigmatized as o ignorant impa-
tience") prevailed, a*d awed by the retnonstrances
of their own friends, who threatened to desert them
unless they attended better to Economy, Ministers
appointed a Finance Committee, which made three
Reports, of which he had seen one (but from the
specimen of which, •he could only say " much good
may it do them"), and while the people expected, as
they had a just right to do, that the Civil List 'and
Household Expenses should be regulated, they were
insulted by a new Officer being appoinied, and
0200,000 being annually added to that establishment.
True it was, that that sum had been nearly expended
in the Civil List &tore; but then, be it remembered, '
that it was drawn from iniquitous and illegal funds,
the Droits of the Admiralty, which at once were a '
source of injustice to the nation and the prey of Royal '
piracy—(Lsrachurisszleore the Opposition Benches.)- '
A magnanimous Prince required nut the gaudy she* '
of mere appearances to make him respected in the '
eyes of his sobjects ; and it was, therefore, no more
than just for the people to expect that some dimints-
lion should have taken place in the idle pageantry '
and chew of the Prince Regent—things which a great
Prince always detested, who wished to live in the
hearts of his people. Such savings would not, how-
ever, have suited the purposes of an Administration'
j which ruled, as the present always had done, by cor-
ruption—(Hear, hoar, hare.)—He did not deny that •
there had been much reduction in the Army, but it
was absurd in the extreme to keep up such an army
as the present in peace, merely fur the sake of our j
Colonies, as was pretended. Surely there was no
great necessity for robbing our Dutch allies of their '
Colonies, when we knew.such expense was required
in keeping them. But the truth was this, that the '
people were goaded by excessive taxation, and began
to murmur; and therefore the army was kept up, to
act as supporters• to this system of terror—(Near,
hear.) This might go on for a little, but it would
soon be seen that England, familiarised to a m.litary I
system, would lose her liberty, and sink into the aw-
tal gloom of despotism. He had toopelosize to
the House for the patience with which they had •
Iseerd him, especially as he was so little Accustomed
to address them—(Hear, haw, Lan) •
The Question was then loudly called for, and the
`Gallery was cleared. During our exclusion no divi.
'ion took place, but we understood that several
Speakers were beard on the question. 04 out return
to the Galkry we touud
Mr. BROUGHAM misting the principle of the
Compensation Bill altogether, as one for which he
could. not see the slightest possible necessity.. If a
ca were made oat to Parliament to give compensa
lion, dims he for one, &clued be should be the best

to sanction it. His objectionlo this Bill was. its sys..i been as distinguished for Ler Misters as f,r 1,,
tematic and prospective nature in vesting this power glory in other respects. The Councils of the ewe hal
of rewards in the Crown—giving the Crown a certain exhibited a race of hielemiodeel men we. bal -.erred
annuity of £42,000 as an additien to the Pension Path intent, not as they would rarer a pr 1-‘sa ti, to
List of the country. On this ground he decidedly catch at a hole paltry pelt, but who had be n ac.
• gave it his opposition. It had been justly set.% that i meted by a putter principle, by it Nye of their onetime
this Bill was the first to contain the idea of politics in' and a wish to do it set vice; and who 10. ked ee. the;
• England being rewarded as a trade ; and he would rrecnitipttice tb that - consciousness at due: 4 weiee
tweet his friends most seriously to scrutireze t..e Bill; was cu: to be put in comp, titian: with Any rt.,,e,d
• ineitsvnrious bearings before they Aniseed themselves which an Act of Parliament, such as th'at !),.I,c
to be undo] by the language of the other side of the' the House, could possibly bestow—(Hear, hear.)....,
Heuse, which, in fact, was plausible only in sound, There lurked, thee-clot-is, in the argument of tee se:-
but in fact gave infinite power to the Clown. The porters of the measure this gross baud (ler he woeja
Crown had already the power of reseeding public I not cell it a fallacy) Ilia-public men Were to be tree..
.-
services, even although no Compensation Bill should ! tut! a s traders in politics, and the inference %Web if
pass. The Craven had already the Pension L.sti of was thence sought to draw, Was. 11:41 poWir ma
England, Scotland, and !reline!. In 1809, though L: given to the Crown to compensate those seen en-.
in that year the four and a half per cent diit:es were tered into that trade, which, he emitended, whs a
, low, the Pension List amounted te £222,0+1). Was fraud on the Conetitutioa and on the Counter-.
that Fund not sufficient ter rewarding public services? (Mar. hear.) But the pr'nciple of this C mottos.
Is the House would look a little to the way in which. lion Bill Was 001 that which it pretended t„ se, it
that Pension Fund was applied, they would see it did not call forth persons into the public sersie:—is
well worthy of attention. Oa this subject he was did not enable men in inferior circiimstences to en.
anxious to speak delicately, without the slightest in. gage in politics—it did not secure to them a C.. nen.
t ntion of hurting any feelings, because on a subject moon for eo doing. He admitted that it did drew
of this kind, he was persuaded, too much delicacy forth one Class of public men. But who were they °
could not be shewn. Yet in that List we beheld in. Was. the State served only by men in office? Did
dividnals rewarded with pensions who had deans'. no man serve the country but Mtn who hid been sus
i plished nothiug 111 behalf of their country and had years in office ? Did the man who give up his days
I
i done tier no service, but whose only merit was their and nights to his attendance in that Hints. • d h
,an ho the
e
i connection with powerful families—families distill. studies necessary to make that ettendaree 'Amok,
guis'ird by their titles, antiquity, and wealth—aye, cod. rno benetic on th- comunimity ? Then tedeed
and by whit was a more powerful recommendatioe, served their country—the utheis served tienselves.
their uniform unabated support of the Mhistry, He saw surrounding bins persons who had I
4 toi.ed lens
whoever that Ministry might be— ( hrear, hear).— and hard in the discharge of their duty ta the 'cuss.
Such were the services for which pensions were be- try--who had on many occasions rendered it ve most
st .wed, and be declared most solemnly while such essential service—but who, its the whole 'di their pole.
was the Case he should never cease to oppose this deal lives had not been above twelve uanthsill,aber.
grant ; for in fact what was the House doing by this Was he to be told on that aCCollilf, th.o their lebouis
grant of te12,000, but enabling Ministers to coati_ had not been eminently beneticiel to the puele te.,
nue this system of gross misapplication. While a Was it to be established as a principle th it he only
fund existed, it was absurd to grant the means of , was a public servant *lto held an office ? The great
misapplying it still further. He observed the rumors business of Gevernment in this Calmly sv is carried
of several Member) on the opposite side who fled on not behind desks and in Cabinets only, but in the
pensions for meritorious services granted to them, great Council of the State. l'heie had been tn.ny
which he thought was right. It was proper that pub,. instances in cur history —even dining thaw rer.,)th
tic services should meet with a public reward, and no tthe
0_ Administration of Sir Rohurt Walpole, , f
man who loved his country wan's' refuse public ere- Lord North,
tli, tat Mr. Pitt,-at sell cli their power was
wards to public merit. It was said by the iriessdawl, the iihas iiiiicoutrouled-ewhen the course taken by
the Bill, that as so much WAS taken from the Crown, McAfee; nilehine of the State was not wh, de the
other means of computation ought to be vetoed so reestilt of iii!.torce impressed upon it by the Goren:-
it. Another materiel member of the proposition7waes menlf.ltif kiitook hugely of the counterectine Ms-
however, wanting. It ought to be shewn, that that pulse of ilreir opponents. Many bad measures had
which was taken from the Crown was adapted to the been adcipted .ninwitlistanding that oppesition, bat
purposes of compensation, which he denied. Ne many voile had been altogether presented. The
writer who bad ever treated the subject had consi- effect which the efforts of those individuals who were
dared the offices which were to be eiteneilied by the not ineoffce, had in modifying the measures pr pi,tid
other Bills, in the view in which they were consi.:ered by those who were in oilise, no one could possibly
by the Committee, AS compensations for public set- doubt ; end It estebiished his [pinion, that
the sub.
vice. Noinistg or tr.e laud had been understood pre. stantive Isosiness of Coves nreent was carried[ nin Par-
alt I ; Ilse yeas 181 1. Of late, the new doctrine liaMent. Here then was the iiiconsisteury of the EiII.
had peen broached that a certain class of men, per- Under the pretence of c ailing forth generally the cur.
swiss of great ability, but little private fortune, and tions of Statesmen, it only tended to call lied' thew
not tot tined wit:[ greet homily connections, ought to ertions of those who vale devoted to Gov, rnment-
-1)- pressed into the et rvice of the State, ur at least It was Gue'that to the nature and capacity of 55:1
enabled to enter it; and that the sinecures about to individuals, the rewinds heed out by the Bill tice
Ile abolished were necessary possessions of the Crown, pectiberly adapted. And yet office wanted no sec'i
ei enable it to prevent the public from being depraved charms. He appealed to the ,eperielice cat Ow Gen.
by the poverty ut such persons, Irons benefinng denten opposite, and to the ebservetion of the Garle-
by their talents and services—(Hear, hear, hear).— men surrounding him, whether, in their time, at Last,
Ellis he declared to be unfounded in reason and in ihere had been any tear of a scarcity of isitheisine:s
practice. He would she* the House that none oil ready to hold official situations? (4 laugls) —No:-
die offices in question had been applied to this pre-a withstanding all that had been said of the II,:i value
tended purpose. Let them look to the office of the of office, that it was hardly worth having, that it I,A
Lord Warden of the Cinque Ports. That office was lost all its attractions, &c. he did not pticeivi. :thy
tar from having been held by poor individuals, whom symptom of a lack of candidates fur it. 11 Icy cea
it was necessary to support in their exertions to serve offer-a bouaty to persons to enter that House for the
the public. In the middle of the last century, it was purpose of running an 'initial Career ?If dune—it the
held by the Duke of Dorset, a man of eminent ca. patronage of the Crown must be strengthened for
lents, but certainly not belonging to the class in clues. such an object, at 'rest let the object be called by if
thin. His Grace held it up to 1765 a and was sec- plain name—let its real character be exethitee —l:t
seeded by the Earl of Holdernesse, who also was not it at once be stated to be to enable po •r men to !•er•-.:
one of that class. Lord North followed the Earl of the Crown. lit his opinion office was not a Slill.tti.,ll et
Holdernesse, mid though unquestionably a man of a poor man ; who might more effectual') si: ve bit
great ability, was not, certainly, a poor man ; for at countryhy continuing in his original and proixt spiel,'
that time he was heir apparent to a very wealthy fa- and periorMing the humble dun s which belonged to;'
mily. Nord North was succeeded by Mr. .Pitt, and The aim of a StAttifliAil ShOL:1:1 be of 1 more rule
Mr. Pitt, by the present possessor, the Earl of Liver- elw4e3cs: .;„ although t:.e Gentlemen opposite did le
pool ; of whom it was not necessary for hirnsto say i''
seem capaele of forming a conception GI a mau de-
that they did not belong to the class forthe ems:ov imll inettinisi: I f to public life, without the hope'
riegement of which it was pretended Alois siscluan- Ineial'clasiy could not conceive the possibility
mike, or a compensation for it, should exist. The araleiwg the business of the State all thing but a
Hon. and Learned Gentleman entered into a similar matter of trade and gain to the individuals trensace
enumeration of the individuals who had successively ins it. 'l%e Honour able and Learned Gentkmie
held the offices of Governor of the Isle of. Wight, concluded by recapituleting his objecti us to the Bill,
Constable of Windsor Cesar, Constable of the Tower, which were, first, that the Crowu aheady poAcs,"l
Clerk of the Pipe, Tellers of' the Exchequer, Clerle VA.:tent-means of compensating public sesvice ; fr.
of the Pella, Chief Justices in Eyre, Lord Justice condly, that the propos, d addition to those maw
General (in Scotland), Lard Register (in Scotland), would only lead to ft.*
.misapplication ; thodly, t!;at
and the Great Seal (in Scotland), and sheaved that under the pretence of encouraging iudividuals to de•
front time immemorial they had been wealthy indi- vote themselves to the public service, the Bill Merely
viduals, most of them Peers, and noise of them of thit tended to draw such men Item their respective :MCA'
(lasi to encourage which to enter the public service it tions in lire as were desirous of becoming tat-
had been contended that those offices, or an equiva. bearers ; and lastly, that it was the first time el per
lent fur them, ought to be in the gilt of the Crown.— claiming to England by Act of Perliameat, that per
He then proceeded to observe, that he had other oh- litics bad become a trade.
jectiuns to the Bill. Why ought Parliament for the Mr. BANKES entered hal a detailed examinaties
first time to lay it down as a principle, dial public of the Pension List's, and denied that they were elw'
men should no longer serve the State as their tore- to the objections which load beets made to them--
fathers had done—at periods when the Godulphins With respect to the Bill before the House, the Fit-
and a long list of illustrious statesmen supported the ciple on which it lisd been recoinmended by Ito
glory of the country at home and abroad ? What Committee, was, that no person should be Waled 0
had come over this age, that money was always to be benefit by ins provisions except those who had inezi:o•
considered as the sole inducement to a public sea- riously discharged high public duties. The preamble
rant ? Why were statesmen to be considered like of the Bill ewes:, that it was in consequence of Ile
craftsmen, like Lawyers, like Attornies-General, and abolition of those others which had hitt:erre been RP'
Judges ?--(Heone, hear.) When a Chancellor retired plied in the way la • hal described. It would be ca-
from the Woolsack, no man objected to the pension tremely unfair,. :)), (;:r. abolition of so many edicts,
which he received in consequence. He had been made suddenly. to deprive. the Cr ,wri 4,f the means of cor:7
a Chancellor because he was a Barrister—lie had be. initiating those who had taitlifully .caved it, Of •-1
come a Barrister because it was a lucrative profession inducing others to enter into its service, withiag
When a man went to the Bar, he went for no earthly giving it something in return. It would have :ter:
purpose but to make money. This, however, ought impossible for Mi. Pitt, alter having so long, hike
not to be the case with men in high situations in she the .
situation of Prime Minister of the cculeii II
State. They ought not to be stimulated by the too- have lived in the seine retired manner he could toy:
fives of a Clerk, who wrote and calculated ini'dcoulit. dime before entering on cline. No wan, cal 155
ing-house, or of a Barrister, whose only object was times had en; iched noriselt m office. (11.. w, Lir.'
to accumulate a fortune—they ought to be influenced The public havrag seenbillCCLlT uflicei so often Y
by a nobler principle. Did men enter that
House fur stowed on levolirites, uetSOISS by *hem no vomit,
rase mere purposes of lucre ? If they did, was it deco. sirs ice had been rand. mid to t e country. had ‘
reus to tell the world so ?—(lleari hear.) Must it Leine disgusted with them. It was hut idu'r
:;e proclaimed by Act oh Parliament that individuals. however, to stele, that in many cases they Were 4 rs::
ems)e into e Peril-anent as into 4 trade? Ought toey ':ally bestowed for CITIIIICIII sea vices. The Te!terv;!:
:, retch at a hide paltry gain; and not having sum of use Eseliemier, for nie...,-e, was given to thei.
&,
scut at present, ought such a Bill as that before user of tee en e present L• ru Cin olen for his ensue;
the House be passed to increase if;!•!Entland had service's, and SO it was *it!i =any others. He'
'