Star.
London, England, 1810-12-20 00:00:00

• 'visited, there would be, as the Noble Earl opposite
(Liverpool) had justly said, two questions, per-
fectly distinct in their nature, submitted to their con-
sideration. The first was, as to the right and duty
of the two Houses, representing the Estates of the
Realm, to proceed to supply the defect in the exer-
cise of the Royal Authority; and the second rela-
ted to that course of proceeding which it might be
deemed expedient to adopt, founded upon the pre-
vious decision of the first. And before he went farther,
he begged leave to correct an error into which his
Noble Friend he was sure inadvertently had fallen, in
calling the Sovereign Power of this country the Third
Estate of the Realm. He had heard this expression
with the more concern, for it was an error which was
too prevalent, and which, in his opinion, had a ten-
dency to misrepresent and degrade the Monarchy:—
The Nobility, the Clergy, and the Commons, re-
presented in Parliament, were the Three Estates of
the Realm, and the subject' of the Sovereign Head,
the King. The Noble Earl (Liverpool) had de-
clined to give any statement, or to describe a ge-
neral outline of those subsequent measures which
it was the intention of Ministers to propose in the
present critical exigency of public affairs. His No-
ble Friend conceived the day fixed on by that
Noble Earl too distant, and creative of unnecessary
delay. But although he thought, and must ever think,
that the time which had been already suffered to elapse
was connected with most culpable omission—with a
dereliction of their duties, and almost a breach of the
allegiance which they owed their Sovereign, he was
not prepared to say, that the intervention of a few days,
between receiving the Report and taking it into consi-
deration, was not necessary to give both dignity and
efficacy to their deliberations. He was sure that the
Report ought to be attentivelyread,and maturely con.
sidered,before Noble Lords made up their minds to the
adoptionof any measure founded upon that Report, and
arising out of the evidence detailed in it. With respect
to the course which, after recording the fact of the
suspension of the executive authority on their Journals,
it would be incumbent on that House to pursue, it was
with pain that he foun !himself unable to concur with
his Noble Friend. But notwithstanding those feelings,
of which he was always sensible on differing with him,
every principle of duty, and every suggestion of rea-
son, united to impose on him that disagreeable neces-
sity, and impelled him to declare his dissent from the
doctrine which his Noble Friend had promulgated.
More than 10 years had now passed since that period
when he first stated his sentiments on this momentous
question—many of them he had passed amid the
active cares of public life, and others he had spent in,
he trusted, not indolent retirement. He had since
often and deeply considered the opinions which he
had then avowed—he had regarded. them as affecting
every possible situation of public affairs, and brought
to their review all the aid which the light of reading
and research could afford him. The result of this
reiterated and unwearied application of his attention
served not merely to confirm, but to strengthen to
the utmost degree what had then been the persua-
sion of his understanding. He believed he pos-
sessed sufficient manliness to be superior to the false
pride of obstinately adhering to opinions which he
was conscious had been refuted or disapproved. No
influence springing from recollections of this nature ;
no bias arising from affection, (and he should be
unworthy of the name of man-were he insensible of
such an affection) to the memory of his departed
friend, who conducted the precedent of 1788, world
operate to deter him from openly retracting an erro-
neous sentiment, and from confessing the change
which had taken place in the honest conviction of his
mind, had such a change actually happened. Every
argument, however, which he had heard, only tended
to.convince him that it was by Legislative provision
only, that any steps could be taken for supplying the
defect of the Royal Authority, whenever such defect
was regularly authenticated to exist. It was an es-
sential principle of the Constitution, that the political
capacity of the Crown was always entire, and he could
not perceive by what Constitutional rule the two
Houses of Parliament could do anyact whatever with-
out the concurrence and exercise of that capacity.—
This he felt himself bo:inci to declare as a Peer of
Parliament, faithfully discharging the duty which he
owed to his Sovereign and his Country—a duty which
he sincerely regretted must cost him the pain of disa-
greeing with his Noble Friend. On another point,
however, he fully concurred with him, in disapproving
and condemning any intention on the part of Mini.
sters of suspending the proceedings in that House,
until those of the other House had been brought to
any particular stage, or until come communication
had been received from it. He would not, indeed,
on the grounds which he had before stated, op-
pose the Noble Secretary of State in his proposal for
the delay of a few days, one of those intermediate
days being one which the Christian would rather de-
dicate to the offices of religion, than to any political
1 discussions, however important, for he had no objec.
1 tion to receive a previous communication from the
Commons, on the subject, but he trusted that no far-
ther delay would be,recomrnended for such a purpose.
He should consider such a proposition as an insult on
the House, and an acquiescence in it to be no less
injurious than degrading. As Peers of Parliament,
it was part of their peculiar and most important func-
tions, to interpose whenever such interposition was
called for, to preserve the integrity of the Kingly
Office, and to defend the interests of the people. In
the execution of this trust, he hoped that House would
never be found consenting to arrangements that might
seem to imply, or might truly imply, an incapacity to
feel, or a reluctance to perform all the obligations
which it so powerfully enjoined.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE combated the
chief position of his Noble Friend, which lie said was
built on a distinction which he could never recog-
nize--the distinction between the political and the
natural capacity of the Crown. He well knew that,
this distinction had been antecedently laid down ,atut,
highly appreciated by some lawyers of great reputa.
non. He had no difficulty in expressing his opi.
nion, that it vjrs a distinction without any solid basis,
and partook much more of the nature of a quibble than
a legal definition. He had not forgotten, that the
quibble had been heretofore productive of the most in-
jurious consequences, that it had furnished the ground
fur proceedings of the most desperate character.—
It must be in the recollection of Noble Lords,
that by means of such a distinction, the political
capacity of the Crown had been formerly convferted
to the purpose of making war in its natural capa.

City.. Pre understood the Noble Lord to allude to
the History of Charles the First:] The year 1788 he
wished to remind the House furnished two precedents
for the present occasion. The conduct of the Parlia-
ment in the Sister Kingdom appeared'to his mind
be the most worthy of imitation, and every feature it.
the character of his Royal Highness, the Prince of
Wales, concurred to strengthen him in this opinion.
He would nut protract the present conversation by
dwelling at length upon these topics, as they would
become the subject of future and, more ample discus-
sion, and should, therefore, conclude by remarking,
that the awful situation of public affairs, and the im-
portant events which had occurred since 1788, called
for a solemn review of all those arguments on which
the decisions and measures of that period had been
founded.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL wished to be informed
as a matter of convenience to many Noble Lords,

whether it was intended to move any proposition to-
morrow upon the Report being presented ?
Lord HOLLANco was not aware of its being in.
tended to move any proposition to-morrow. Beint,
upon his legs, however, he would just observe that he
agreed with his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) in the
necessity of making a legislative provision, but con-
tended that they ought first to establish a reprelenta-
five of the Royal Authority, for the purpose of gi,
ing a constitutional sanction to such legislative mea,
sure, by the measure glanced at by his Noble Friene
namely, an Address to his Royal Highness the Prince
of Wales, to take upon him that authority. He
would not, however, enter into the subject now, as he
might go on to too great a length, and the discussion
would be at present premature. With respect to the
second Resolution of 1788, which it appeared to be
the intention of the Noble Earl opposite to propose
upon this occasion, he should feel it his duty to give
it a direct negative, if, as he trusted would be the case,
some Noble Lord did not move upon it the previous
question.

Earl SPENCER was merely anxious for himself
and other Noble Lords, to lay in a claim, that •
might not be imputed to them that they had ac
quiesced in the proceeding, the intention of proposini
which had been intimated. This having been done,
he had no intention of making any proposition to-
morrow. It would, however, ►e convenient to seve-
ral Noble Lords to know, whether the Noble Ear
opposite would certainly move the resolutions which
he had mentioned on Thursday, or whether his movini
them depended upon any communication to be re
ceived from the House of Commons.

The Earl of LIVERPOOL replied, that he cowl,
merely say, that it was his intention at present to pro-
pose some measure on Thursday.
Lord GRENVILLE observed, that of course
could not be foreseen what circumstances might oc-
cur in the mean time, but it would be highly desirable
to know, whether the Noble Earl intended certainll
to propose any measure on Thursday, or whether he
intended to wait for any communication from the
House of Commons ?

The Earl of LIVERPOOL repeated that it was
his intention to propose some measure on Thursda:
Lord HOLLAND said, if the Noble Earl did n,
propose some measure on Thursday, he (Lord Hot.
land) should move an Address to his Royal Highness
the Prime* of Wales, to take upon him the exercise -
the Royal Authority.
The Lords were ordered to be summoned for to-
morrow.

The "Earl of LIVERPOOL wished, before the
House separated, to mention that doubts had arisen,
whether in the present state of the House, proxies
could be received, he therefore, thought it would .
ad►iseable to appoint a Committee to search for pre,
cedents upon the subject, and intended to make
motion.to that effect on Thursday.

Earl STANHOPE thought it very strange that
the Noble Earl should make the motion on Thursdal
the day on which the question would arise whether
proxies ought to be received.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL observed, that if the
precedent of 1788, which it was proposed to adhere
to, was followed, by the House resolving itself into
Committee on the State of the Nation, proxies could
not of course be received. He had no objection,
however, to move for the appointment of the Com-
mittee to-morrow.

Earl STANHOPE said, the Noble Earl was aga.
wrong, for how did the Noble Earl know, that the
House would agree to all he proposed
The Earl of LIVERPOOL gave notice of his, ml
tion for to-morrow.

Adioumed till to-morrow (this day.)

INDIA HOUSE.

Yesterday a Quarterly General Court was held at
the East India House, when the Dividend for the last
half year was declared to be 54- per cent. On the
,several motions of Mr.' L: JAC'Ettnit, which were se-
conded by Mr. P. MOonti the Resolutions of the Di.
rectors, increasing Captain Sitl.tiaßieS salary, as Mi
litary Secretary, from RIOOO to 41500 per annum,
was agreed to, subject to the confirmation of another
General Court. A Vote of thmtkswits.passed to the
Students who have distinguithed themselves in the
examination at Holybury and it W•aVresolved, that
the future examination of the Writers giuleadets be
in an open Committee of College and Seminary, in-
stead of an open Court of Director:. The Court ad-
journed at half-past two, rine die.
Yesterday a Court of Directors was held at the
-East India House, when the following Commanders
took their final leave of the Court previous to depart-
ing for their respective destinations, viz.
Captain T2I4IMA 3 H. Wuxi/46m, of the Cumberland; and
Captain Iticuatto blisaar, of the' Essex, for Bombay and China.
. The under-mentioned Captains were sworn into the
command of their respective ships, viz.
• Captain J. TWIDALZ, of the Perseverance, for China direct;
and Captain J. JAMISON, of the General Stuart, for Madras and
Bengal.
The CHIFFONNit frigate, Captain Wantwamnr,
sailed from Prince of Wales Island, 'with a convoy
from Bombay, and with the trade from Penang, on
the 15tb of June. She was afterwards to protect
the Chinese trade from the insults of the Ladrone
pirates. Her successful exertioriragainst the pirates
in the Persian Gulph have given her a name for this
necessary warfare,