The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-06-21 00:00:00

BEER BILL.

Lord BiwyGlIAM said, he would at present only move that
this bill be read a third time. He admitted that the opposi-
tion to 'the measure was conducted in a spirit of great fair-
ness ; and he thought it would save their lordships' time to
take the discussion on the amendments which the noble mar-
quis (Salisbury) intended to move, than on the question of
the third reading.
Lord Ellenborough observed, that it would be an anomaly
to have the bill read a third time, and that the sense of the
house should be taken on the next question.
Lord BROUGHAM said that nothing was more usual than
such a course.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER said, he would object at
once to the third reading.
Lord BROUGHAM said, that, unless their lordships were
prepared to say that the present beer bill was absolute per-
fection, as had once been said of our constitution, he hoped
they would hear the proposed amendments. He would,
therefore, now move the third reading, and would reserve
any remarks be had to make until he heard the objections
against the measure.
Lord WROTTESLEY objected to the bill.
The Marquis of SALISBURY said his amendments would
go thus far :—First, he would move a clause to the effect that
no new license for the sale of beer should henceforward be
granted except by the magistrates. Next, that certifi-
cates should be granted to parties paying a rental of
£lO instead of £6, as heretofore. The third amendment
would be, that the sureties required by the acts 11th of Geo.
IV. and Ist of William IV. should be resident in the same
parish with the party for whom they became sureties. His
fourth amendment was, that "from and after this time jus-
tices should be empowered to grant licenses for the sale of
beer and cider only." Under the existing act, the moment
a magistrate's license was granted, the party was entitled to
a spirit license from the excise. There was also another
amendment which he should be very happy to move, " That
the price of the license should be raised," which would put
an end to all those beer-shops the occupiers of which had no
capital whatever. A man who had to pay for an £8 or a £lO
license must expect to sell a considerable quantity of beer to
meet that expense.
The Marquis of WESTMINSTER said it would be a very
hard thing it the bill should pass into a law, and he should
take every opportunity of giving it his opposition.
Lord D.scr.E thought the amendments of the noble mar-
ital' (Salisbury) objectionable, inasmuch as they did not meet
the evil at all.

........
Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, if their lordships were not
disposed to adopt the bill and the amendments at once, he
believed the proper course would be to recommit the bill,
which would give time and opportunity for consideration.
Viscount NIELDOURNE was compelled to admit that there
were great evils attaching to the present law ; but he could
not believe, that its enactment and operation had changed
the whole morals of the country—made quite a different
escene of the whole land, and altered, as it were, the whole
nature of man.—(" Hear," and a laugh.) As to those who
used such language, it was enthusiasm which carried them
away.—(Hear, hear.) In his opinion it would be a nugatory
act on their lordships' part if they passed the bill of his noble
and learned friend. Indeed, his noble and learned friend
had proposed it, apparently, without much confidence in its
success, and in a faltering manner. On the whole, it ap-
peared to him that it would be very unwise and imprudent
to pass this bill, which he thought a rash and hasty measure.
Ha apprehended there could be no possible doubt, that this
was a bill which, if sent down to the house of commons,
could not pass ; and he appealed to their lordships to pro-
pounce whether, under these circumstances, it would be wise
and prudent to send it there. From all that he could learn,
and ha had spoken with persons who had made careful in-
quiry, there was not one man in the house of commons in
favour of it. From all he could understand, there was no
reformer of beer in that house—(a laugh)—who was for going
all the lengths of this bill, and therefore no very sanguine
hopes of its success there could be entertained.
Lord BROUGHAM said, he had never heard a speech from
any person that betokened so entire and dark an ignorance
of every part of the subject to which it related, as that which
had been just delivered by his noble friend near him.—(A
laugh.) His noble friend had told their lordships, that there
could be no possible difference between the behaviour of a
man licensed by the magistrates, and that of a man licensed
by the excise. Why, there must be all the difference in the
world. A mere name seemed to have the power of taking in
his learned friend—he begged pardon, his noble friend—God
knew he could not call him learned, at least on this subject.
—(A. laugh.) Well, then, his noble and ignorant friend.—
(Laughter.) He was sorry to see from the aspect of the
house, that the present critical hour had had the effect of
sadly thinning their lordships' numbers. Their lordships
liked the Beer Bill little, but they liked remaining in the
house after half-past seven o'clock less.—Much laughter.)
Their lordships liked to see a good state of morality in
the country the tranquil order of society they dearly
loved—it was the very apple of their eye.—(Laughter.)
But there was another affection operating upon certain deli-
cate organs in the constitution of noble lords still more inti-
mately than those connected with the peace, order, and
purity of society, and reminding them of what had been
called the most important event of existence—that of dinner.
(Laughter.) " I am glad to find," said the noble and
learned lord, turning to the episcopal bench, " that my ob-
servition is not confined to the lay lords ; it extends equally
to those who are the appointed guardians of public morals
and virtue. How often have I heard the beer-houses de-
nounced by the right rev. occupants of that bench ! There
is hardly a bishop whom I have not heard imploring your
lordships, from this very place, for God's sake to apply a
remedy to that which makes all our preaching and teaching
vain, to reform these nests of drunkenness, to remove these
moral plagues. (A laugh.) And now that I come forward
at their instigation—that I lend myself as their coadjutor—
that I put myself as an humble instrument in the hands of
the guardians of morality and religion—but two out of six-
and-twenty right rev. prelates will sacrifice their dinner,
their regard to their belly, which is their god—" (laughter).
The Marquis of SALISBURY.—I rise to order. I move
that the noble and learned lord's words be taken down.
Lord BROUGHAM.—That they may be taken down cor-
rectly I think Lhad better repeat them. I was saying that
the bench of bishops
Lord IsIENYON.—I rise to order. The moment the words
are objected to, no time should be lost in taking them down.
Lord BROUGHAM.—I am just repeating them, that the
clerk may be at no loss. " The bench of bishops, more
than all the lay peers of the realm, have expressed their
strong sense of the evil effects of beer-houses to the moral
effects of the people under their care, and it is chiefly at
their instigation that I have brought forward a measure as
their coadjutor, and an humble instrument in their hands,
for the purpose of putting down what they abominate as
prejudicial to the morals of the people"—
The Marquis of SALISISURY.—These are not the words.
Lord BROUGHAM.—AIIow me to finish the sentence; I
am getting on. " But I find that the whole 26 prelates"—
Lord KENYON.—I rise again to order. A noble friend of
mine has called the noble and learned lord to order, and he
must state the reasons why he did call him to order.
Lord BROUGHAM.—The words must first be taken down.
Considerable confusion here prevailed in the house, two
or three noble lords speaking at once, which was terminated
by the rising of
Lord Erooternono (Jou, who said that, in point of fact, the
opportunity had now passed. (Shouts of Hear, hear,"
from Lord Brougham.) The rules of the house required
that the words should be taken down instanter.
Lord BROUGHAM explained.
The Duke of WreerNoToN observed, that, in passing this
hill, with the amendments proposed by his noble friend, they
would he more likely to meet the wishes of the other house
of parliament, and so to achieve that good which all of them
had in view.
The Bishop of CHICHESTER rose to repel the most un-
charitable and unchristian attack that had been made on the
bench of bishops. The reverend prelate had scarcely uttered
these words, when he was called to order by
Lord ELLENBOROUGH, who, if he was heard correctly,
said, that, if the right reverend prelate wished for peace, he
was not taking the best means to procure it.
The Marquis of SALISBURY was sure that the noble and
learned lord would withdraw the expression which had given
such offence to the right reverend prelate.
Lord BROUGHAM was understood to say, that he had given,
as he thought, a satisfactory explanation of what he had
already stated. If, however, the right reverend prelate was
anxious to enter into debate, he was quite ready to repeat his
expressions.
The Bishop of CHICHESTER: I am the last person in the
world to place myself in this position with your lordships ;
but if
Lord BROUGHAM : I have nothing more to to say, my
lords. Go on, go on.
Lord KENYON roar to order.
The Bishop of CHICHESTER said, that, as far as he him-
self was concerned, he had only meant to say that the right
reverend prelates, whose absence that night had beenim-
pugned, had been employed, one and all, for five or six hours
that day in committee upon the church building bill, and also
non the church tliscipline bill. He knew that not one of
them bad dined at seven o'clock; and he believed that they
had all of them been employed that day from nine o'clock in
the morning on public business.
Lord BROUGHAM did not wish any person to stand in the
way of the castigation which the right rev. prelate seemed
anxious to bestow on him. This, however, he must say—if
the right rev. prelates had been employed in committees all
day, so too had the laity—(a laugh) ;—and he himself had
no more dined at eight o'clock that day than their lordships
had dined at seven. (A laugh.) No expression that he (Lord
Brougham) has used was so disorderly as that which had
come from the right reverend bench. He had only quoted
an expression from Milton.
The house divided : Content, 36 ; Not content, 19 ; ma-
jority in favour of the bill, 17.
On our being re-admitted, the Earl of CHICHESTER was
found moving that the bill be recommitted ; and it was agreed
that the bill should be recommitted on Monday next.
Adjourned.