Star.
London, England, 1811-04-09 00:00:00

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"" Militia so broken in upon as it must be by tbeisresem
AIL
- PARLIAMENT ARr PROCEEDINGS. Bill • but his chief objection vi as to the cfauset which
t.went to convert it from a temporary into a permanent
HOUSE OF LORDS, APRIL s. measure. The Noble Lord took occasion.bighly to.
The Betio+, in a Ctettinotee of Pro/lieges, preeeecled.to dis- extol Mr. Wistdham's plan which had exceeded in its
cuss the cl,o-.1 to tie PA.,hury Pe t•agr, in which their Lordships operation the most sanguine expectation of his friends;
aceuree.l HI rear five o'elrtzk, when it was ordered to pro- I
t but the present measure would totally destroy all the
teed further in the discussion e, Thtirsdly nett. !benefits which that salutary plan was calculated to
Tb Pet+ein Reads lilt Was read z set:odd time, and commit-
* d for to-morrow.
' pmduce. By making it perpetual, instead of tempo-
-
PORTUGAL. rary, it was proceeding upon principles diametrically
MariquisWELLES LEY presented a Message from
~ opposite to those which he had ever maintained re-
his Royal Highnes, the Prince Regent. representing specting matters of that nature; and so far, therefore,
the distresses in which a part of the inhabitants of lit must have his most decided negative.
Portugal were plunged by the savage barbarities ex- I The Earl of WESTMORLAND observed, that
ercised against them by the French army in its retreat, I if he understood the measure, the objections of his
and expressing a desire that their Lordships' House j Noble Friend (Viscount Sidmouth) seemed totally
would concur in enabling the Prince Regent to afford I done away at the first view of it. The Bill provided
the sufferers speedy and effectual relief.—[For the I that no ballot should take place before the middle of
Messagesee the proceedings of the House ofCommons. ! the year 1813 ; at the same time, it endeavoured to
M.irciiiis WELLESLEY then moved, that hie fi recruit the Militia as far as possible by inlistment ;
Royal Highness's Message be taken into considera- ; and in every point of view, the Bill, he thought, went
tion to-morrow, and that the Lords be summoned. as far as it was necessary for its purpose.
.--Ordered. The Earl of HA RDWICKE entered into an exa-
mination of several of. the prominent clauses of the
;Bill, and suggested a variety of modes in which it.
might be amended in the Committee.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL explained to the
House, that the principle upon which the Bill went, I
was, that the Militiaman should be placed on the
same footing, except as to ballot, with the soldier in
the regular army. In his opinion, the wiser course
to adopt would be, in many points, just the reverse
of the existing system. He adverted to certain pro-
visions which now are obtained in favour of the Mili-
ti.unan, which should preferably be in favour of the
regular soldier. Adverting to some former measures
which were adopted with respect to the military force
of the country, the Noble Secretary observed, that the
measure of the Army of Reserve instead of being be.
nofieial, was mischievous in its consequences; and
though he had been a party to that measure, he had
himself afterwards experienced its inconveniences. As
to what had been conceived of the measure with re-
ference to the casualties of the Army, the calculation
was made at between 23 and 24,000 men ; but this
calculation it should be recollected, were of a very
peculiar nature, and such as would not occur in the
ordinary course of war. In the measure before them,
however, he would wish even to look at those cases.
The last year was a peculiarly unfavourable period,
from a variety of circumstances. With respect to
what could be raised for foreign corps, it was calcu.
kited at'about 4000 men, according to the present
kale of war ; but the numbers to be provided by the'
adoption of this measure would even cover that. To
these remarks the Noble Earl referred to some fur-
ther calculations, in order to evince the beneficial ten-
dency of the measure.
The Earl of ROgSLYN, in explanation, expressed
his opinion, that the foreign and colonial corps should
be left out of the question, and that the proposed
measure should be confined solely to the supply of
the British regular troops ; and he added some re-
marks in answer to the calcdlations made by Noble
Lords opposite.
The question was then put for going into a Com-
mittee on the Bill, and carried without a division •
end their Lordships accordingly resolved into the
same. Before the Clauses were entered upon,)
Lord Viscount SIDMOUTH totik occasion to re-
mark, that the calculated waste of the army would be
supplied by the means of the Bill, together with the
modes ordinarily adopted for the recruiting of the
army ; and he regretted that a Noble Friend had re-
tired, as the provisions of the Bill were now more re-
gularly under the consideration of their Lordships. ,
The different clauses of the Bill were then gone
through without any further observation from any of
the Lords present, and were afterwards reported with.
out any amendment.
The Earl of AYLESFORD moved that several
additional witnesses, whose names were specified in
the motion, be ordered to attend at the Bar, in order
to Ise swotn, and afterwards to attend the Committee
of their Lordships appointed to investigate the cir-
cumstances of the death of Thomas Culver, a debtor,
who died in the Marshalsea Prison, and On whom a
Coroner's Jury had been held, &c. on Wednesday
next, which was ordered accordingly.
The House then adjourned till to-morrow, when
their Lordships stand summoned for the consideratiosi
of the Prince Regent's Message respecting the pro-
posed Relief to the suffering Inhabitants of Portugal.

t

• MS MAJESTY'S HEALTII.
Earl GROSVENOR wished to know from the
Noble Secretary (I.iverpool) if it was intended to lay
upon the table of that House any report of the state
Of his Majesty's health, being a subject interesting to
the feelings of the whole country.
The Earl of 'LIVERPOOL answered, it was corn-
,
• letent for any Noble Lord to move for the produc-
tion of the Report of her Majesty's Council to he
laid on the table. The Act provided only tint it
should he laid before the Privy Council as a matter
Of record for them ; but still the Noble Lord might,
if he thooght fit, move in humble Address to his
Royal Highness, praying that the same might be
laid• upon their Lordships' table.
Earl GROSVENOR then said he should proceed
move for the report immediately, unless there was
any objection.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL thought it might be
more convenient to give notice to-day of a motion to
that effect to-morrow:.
Earl GROSVENOR accordingly gave notice, he
would to-morrow move an humble Address to his
Royal Highness the Prince Regent, praying that he
would order the Report of her Majesty's Council to
be laid on the table.
MILITIA INLISTMENT BILL.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of
the Day for going into a Committee on this Bill.—
Every Noble Lord, he observed, must be sensible
how urgent and important it was to complete the ar-
my at the present moment; and he believed that
no measure was so likely, so speedily and effectually
to accomplish that desirable object as the one propos-
ed by the, present Bill. Many objections to which its
provisions had been considered as liable, were ob.
'Slated ; and upon the whole, he trusted, .it would be
found as unobjectionable as it was well possible to
render a measure of that description.
The Earl of ROSSLYN entered into a minute
examination of the effects likely to be produced by
the operation of the Bill, many of which were in his
inind extremely serious and weighty. Indeed the
framers of the measure themselves seemed to be aware
of its inefficacy, and that it would not answer the ob-
ject for which it was intended. Ent he must object
to it chiefly on the following grounds :—lt must tend
to cut up altogether the recruiting for the general
service, while it would considerably increase the ex-
pence of raising men, without accomplishing the ob-
ject it had in view. What man of sense could expect
that persons would fnlist for general service for ten
iznina.a, 'elite a sum so much larger was to be had
"for inlisting in the militia ? The expense ot provid-
ing a substaute for the service in some counties had
:actually amounted to about £5O, to which a further
bounty would be added for inlisting into the army
under the present Bill. A regard to this profit had a
'tendency radically to vitiate the mind and spirit cf a
soldier, while the expense of raising the MAMe number
of men would be nearly doubled to-the Country: In
its operation it would betray no less an absordity than
that of sending two agents to the same auction to bid
against each, other. At the same time, this unwar-
rantable sk Reuse would be incurred to no purpose.—
It would hot supply the waste of the army. For the
last three Years, the.waste of each year was, on an
aver Age, :about 21,000 men. The present Bill did
not promise to produce more than 19,000 men.—
Theri wOuld therefore be a considerable deficit, and
to be made up ? Indeed, the 'rnore he
'

^
_

how isvhs it . .
considered. the nature of the effects which must result ' HOUSE OF COMMONS.
from a measure of this nature,- the more he must de-
DISTILLERY BILL.
yrEat-E.the acroption ,of it. The Noble Earl then Mr. CHNTE presented a Petition from the owners and *cm-
. COMMIDed it With Mr. Windham's plan, which in his 1 piers of Land in the neighbourhood of Andover against the Dis-
opinion was far. preferable, and which had produced tillery Bill. Ordered to lie on the table.
of
Freeholders
A.hoßldEoßrsColtfOthMe BIE presented a Petition from a Meeting
such favourable effects, evert for the short time it had
..:
Dist Au ted upon._ .__. County of Clackmannan, at which Mr. Er-
plane presided, against the Distillery Bill. It was received as the
9rti SIDMOUTIi thought there could be but Petition of Mr. Erskine, arid ordered to lie on the table.
kO ("pinion respecting the necessity of keeping tip The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, that the
House do to-morrow, go into a Committee on the Act of the 19th
-the army. No man was more ready to applaud the
of the King, relative to the prohibition against masters of ships
'resent application of oar military force, particularly removing their vessels out of the stream except at legal quays, so
Ingpain and Portugal, where they had reaped such far as concerned Ireland. Ordered.
islory, and where, he trusted their heroic conduct The second reading of the Parochial Settlement Bill was post-
w .ould be productive of the most beneficial results ; pored till Tuesday, May 7.
Leave was given to bring in a Bill to allow a greater number
Iprhe that took an interest in these great events, but of sheep to be sent
from England to the Isle of Man, than is per-
be Tilitit anxious to see the numbers of our army kept mitte4 by um at present.
,up 4 and how could they be so effectually kept up as , The Navigable River Robbery Bill, the Privately Stealing Bill,
.by the present measure ? Those who objected to it, ' 'odie English and Irish Bleaching Ground Robbery Bill, were
a third time
'did not propose any other mode less objectionable, . read
Mr. LUSHINGTON bErostuigmhattuepstheißleeprlrtesoolfuttihoens Committee
440 so likely to answer the same end. In his opinion of Supply on the Colonial were se-
t was wise to render it a permanent measure ; for ho verally read and agreed to.
' stalearaire promised to recruit the army more effectu. i GRAND SOUTHERN CANAL.
telly, or with such little delay. Whatever objections ! Mr. H. SUMNER moved the second reading of
might be felt to it, were all borne down by the ne- ! the Grand Southern Canal Bill.
cessity of the public service. He could not agree i Lord G. CAVENDISH felt it his duty to oppose
with the Noble Earl (Rosslyn) that the waste of the a measure which was contrary to the wishes, opinions,
army was so great as that stated by the Noble Earl. and interests of all the land owners concerned, and
It is true, indeed, that there was a severe loss of men to set his face against the system which had lately
in the North of Spain in 1783, and also a 'loss not prevailed of persons wholly unconnected with any
less severe in 1809 in the Walcberen expedition.— , district, endeavouring to force upon that district their
But losses to that amount were not likely to continue. own interested plans..—(Hear, Hear, Era,.) lie
He at least did not see what application of our mai. moved as an amendment, that the Bill be read a se-
- tary force was likely to expose It to such heavy losses. cond time that day six months.
He thought it would be making very large allowance Mr. SUMNER denied that the Bill was brought
forward by speculators, and said that it had the sanc-
andfer air: waste of our force to rate it at 19,000 men :
Lion of such great names as the Duke of Norfolk and
Earl's calctilation,
that waste, even in the Noble
would be made up by the supplies to be derived from . Lord Egremont. He maintained that the Canal
the present measure. He wished there might be no' would be of eminent advantage in conveying a prin-
cipal part of the lading of the East and West India
fair objection to it ; bet under all the cirturnstances
..outward-bound fleets,
.and hoped that the Bill would
' of bur present situation he felt it to be of urgent and
.
issdispensible necessity. : be suffered to go into a Committee,' in order that its
merits might be fairly considered.
Lord HQLLAND could not but i•—•.-t to see the i

' ' • !
thsteut!ailjttleiluicet,,ti,f) presentth,,•
getting., ci
icwhhEos.le as
I.
weft cotelatue4g:
.
Lord FOLICESTONE said that he bad some 4.
serrations to submit to the House on a matter which
.
.I.ljspearld to him of great importance. He cousideel
it as undoubodly the privilege of every Maniber,obatt
re; agues*n'of supply came before. the. House, it.
stance any cement that appeared to him tube in any
tieege
waya con ti with the subject. This was a very va.
ble
ilithoupreisetaghptntecesl time. ta,;wirTerhicctliolech.aelll'htTioll
was the +scarcity of small coin, which selves AS tras-
aional parts of a pound note. Every Member of dase
Hods* knew the difficulty there was ra
in London t and he had been informed by Kam,.
that the difficelty was still greater in the couture. Flt
had been informed, that at a fait there was.no past.
bility of getting change for a pound rote ; and :hat,
in order to mace smail purchases, it was neresialy
for three or four people to join to purchase al:at
would altogether make up a pound aott. It was ias.
possible that trade could go on is the country uulesa•.
this calamity was remedied Thinking this to he an'
evil of the greatest magnitude, he'had taken that op..
portunity to call the attention of the House, and cf
Ministers cache striokrt .
Mr. GEORGE ANSITTART said, that ...he
accounts which he had received from the country a ere
exactly similar, and letters which he 1)11 r. (aired
from the neighbourhoods of Abingdon and (Axed
mentioned. the same difficulty of getting change.
. steeps Ltews _ ...
Mr. WHARTON stated, that it the Chief Justice
,appointed for this colony•had a...twilled ib England
for two years, the delay was not by any means his
fault,:but arose from a conaiderable,delay which took
place after his appointmenty before tl-w charter was
perfected. The charter dig not receive 'lie great seal
tills September last, and there had been, no °ppm'.
'nay for the Chief Justice to go out to Sierra Leene
until a few weeks ago. Ht was now at Portsmouth,
• ready to 'sail the first opportunity. After having
'thus explained what he conceived to be the must *ob-
jectionable part of the erant, he concluead by mowing
That a sum not exceeding £14,495 10,. el Afield he granted
to Ms Majesty for defraying the carmen of eke Civil Gov eirenenr
of Sierra Leone.
Mr, DENT wished this grant to b- postponed, and
gave notice, that after the recess, I.e-ahould submit
to the House a motion w:th respect niithis•colmy.—
If this charter was not signed till veil Lately, why
had the salary of Lord Chief Justiattibeee paid so
long before ?
'Mr. WHARTON said, that the appoir.terat rf
Mr. Thorpe,. as Chief Justice of Sierra Lei,ne, -asc,k
place in the summer of 1808, at which time it was
expected that the charter would be signed witlret
delay. The delay which had t: ken place was net
imputable to him, but arose principally from th.ttb.s
in the mind of the Lord Chancellor as to the prolate-
' ty of affixing the great seal to the charter.
Mr. ABE RCROM BY conceived, that blame most
attach sOmeiebere. Either this office ef Citiet Justice
was necessary to the colony, or if was not. It it vas
necessary, why was the colony so long left without a
• resident Chief Justice ? But if the office was not he.
cessary, why was a man appointed to that situation
with so large a salary as afil.soo per annum ?
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it i,ecessary for
him to state the reasons of his ha% ing originally sip-
pointed Mr. Thorpe to that situation. The object d
the establishment of the colony of Sierra Leone was
not only as a place of arms, but as an institution :a
produce a great moral effect tin the coast of Airit Ai
and to assist in the Abolition of the Slave Trade. It
I was very hard to find a man of lib:ral character atid
knowledge of his professi -in that would go to the tan.
wholesome climate of Sierra Leor.e f,,r a salary of
£l5OO. Besides the duties of ChiefJastice, he Ira
to be Judge of the Admiralty Court : and there wni
no other Judge of a Prize Court who had less thaw
0000 per annual. It was a situation which reqiii.
red legal knowledge • and as a.lge of Prize Courts
has to.determine on .h
the righteof torjan na.ions, it
evidently 'requires a man of legal knowledge and of
delicate conduct.. It was not easy to find a person sr
qualified that would accept theoitnation. Mr. Thorpe
had held a judicial situation is Upper Canada, and
although he was removed from that situation for par.
tiCttlarreasons, yet he was conceived to be well qua-
lified for the situation of Chief •Jastice of Siena
Leone ; ad from.his haring formerly held a judical
situation, ke.had some claims upon the Government.
As to the °thee itself; Parliament had coaadered it
necessary; and ties delay was not imputable in ass
way to the individual aPpointed.
Sir JOHN COX HIPPISLEY made some gene.
ral observations on the unhealthiness of the climate,
which made him think it was not a place wh:ch
should have been selected as a colony.
Mr. PEELE said, that the salary of £l5OO a.yest
was certainly given very much on account of the a-
bbe:lloly nature of the climate ; but as it had hapaenel
without any fault of Mr. 'Thorpe, that for above two
years after his appointment the charter had not re-
ceived the great seal, it was not possible to make any
deduction from his salary, en the ground of Erw,land
being a healthier country than that which lie war
appointed to.. He might well lay, that he had made
his arrangements according to the tniome of the aha-
ation.
Mr. WHITBREAD said, he must express his
strong anxiety that the subject should be thoroUghli
sifted ; and be would not hesitate to express this er
nion, even though it had been supported by an Ann-
abolitionist. The Hon. Gentleman on the °pools
side (Mr. Peele) had made out an amusing cenver•
sation between.the public.and Mr:Thorpe, and spokes
of the dignity of character necessary for a Judge d
Sierra Leone. But was that House to be gravely tell
of the splendour of appearance necessary for suet.' a si.
tuation ? A Noble Lord (Castlereagh) had talked of
the climate meeting those who werslto visit the settlz•
client ; but Mr. Thorpe had no intention of meting
the climate.. It was said, that there was a difficull
in finding a person fit for the situation, ar.d that Go-
vernment were forced to bring Mr. Thorpe trom Ca.
nada ; but the whole niriiii-bod the look of a job.—
Why was not the remuneration to wait for the scr.
vice ? Why was the salary to run on from the yen
moment of the appointment ? This• all sa,vcwred ef
au arraogement for tbeexclusirebenefit'of Mr.Tharr.e.
But if judicial splendour was the sole °eject of the
large salary which the Chief Justice of Serra Leone
was to have, why were the Judges of the other c •i:.
nies thrown so much behind ? When the Judges D
the West Indies had scldcm zners than 4500 a'r'g'

SirSHARLES BURRELL contended thatltinny
adv,antabs would result from the formation of this
Canal. There were many valuable stone quarries
along she projected line; there' were large tracks of
waste lands, which would be benefited vand•the junc-
tions of the River Ouse Canal would also be attended
with material advantage. Besides, the quick con-
veyance of naval stores to Portsmouth would be ef-
fected by it. On all these grounds he would support
the Bill.
Mr. CALCRAFT did not agree in opinion with
the Hon. Baronet, tit any of those advantages
would result from the proposed Canal, the chief part
of which, according to his statement, would affect the
Sussex part of the line, for which a Bill should be
brought in next year, as they were obliged to vary
the notices; so that the only part which could proceed
if this Bill was carried through, would be the offensive
part, namely, that•part which was to run through the
county of Kent. It was farcical to talk of the com-
munication of Northfleet, and Woolw.ch, and Cha-
tham with Portsmouth, by means of this Cabal ; for
a Canal from Croydon would answer all those pur-
poses without cutting up 1400 acres of land. The
fact was, that not one of the great landed proprietors
in Kent were favourable to the measure ; and if the
County Members were not absent from indisposition,
there was no doubt of their opposing it in their places.
Neither were any of the principal towns of Sussex
likely to be benefited by it, as it was to run parallel to
the sea. The great objection was, that there was no
landholder in favour of it—and though the Duke of
Norfolk and Lord Egremont had compromised with
the projectors of this Canal, they had been originally
adverse to it, and their names were only made use of
now to give a colour to the business, and to assist in
cramming it down the throats of those who were ad-
verse to it. He hoped, therefore, that the House
would set its face against the system of which this was
a part.
Sir CHARLES BURRELL explained.
• Mr. HURST opposed the Bill, and said that he
did not believe that there were two landholders in the
county of Kent favourable to it. He knew no recom:
pence which could be made for the injuries which
would be done to extensive and beautiful plantations
which this Canal would destroy. There were other
objections arising from the variety of projectors, and
neglect of the forms of the House, which induced him
to vote for the Amendment.
The House then divided, when there appeared—
For the Amendment 100—.‘gainst it 17—Majority 83.
The Bill was consequently lost.

While strangers ssr. ere excluded, we understand that
the further consideration of the Distillery Bill was
posponed until to-morrow.
MESSAGE FROM THE REGENT.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
appeared at the bar with a message from his Royal
Highness the Prince Regent, which was read by the
Speaker as follows :
" GEORGE, P. R.
St The Prince Regent in the name and on behalf of his Majes-
ty, baring taken into his serious consideration the accounts he
has received of tbk severe distresses to which the inhabitantsof a
part of the kingdom of Portugal have been
.exposed in their per-
sons and property, in consequence of the invasion of that cowry,
and especially from the wanton and garage barbarity exercised
by the French armies, in their recent retreat, which cannot fail
to affect the hearts of all persons who have any sense of religion or
humanity, desires to be enabled by the House of Commons to af-
ford the suffering subjects of hia Majesty's good and faithful all%
such speedy and effectual relief as may be suitable to this interes-
ting and affecting occasion."
On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the
EXCHEQUER, his Royal Highness the Prince Re-
nent's Message was ordered to be referred to the
Ccmmittee of Supply.
HIS MAJESTY'S HEALTH.
Mr. WHITBREAD observing, that, as in pur-
suance of the Act of Parliament to that purpose, her
Majesty's Council had recently communicated to the
President of his Majesty's Privy Council the result of
their examination into the present state of his Majes-
ty's health, wished to know whether it was the inten-
tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman to lay that result
on the table of the House.
The CHANCELLOR of 'the EXCHEQUER,
said that he should have no objection to the produc-.
tion of the paper in question.
Ur. WHITBREAD, upon this, moved,
" That an humblE Addiess be presented to his Royal High-
ness the Prince Regent, praying, that be would be graciously
pleased to direct that there be laid before the House Copies of all'
communications made by her Majesty's Council, to the President
of his Majesty's Privy Council, respecting the state of his Majes-
ty's health."
The CHANCE LLOR of the EXCHEQUER
would not expose himself or the House to the mis-
construction that might arise from his opposing the
motion, on the ground that the usual Parliamentary
notice had not been given respecting it. He could
not, however, help thinking, although he had no ob.
jection whatever to the motion itself, that it would
have been much better had the Honourable Gentle-
' man confined himself to a notice, as the production
of the paper on one day or on the other could not be
veil material.
Mr. WHITBREAD remarked, that if the Right
Hon. Gentleman recollected what passed in the
House on a recent occasion,.when the regulations'
were made for the new arrangements of' business, he
would remember, that he (Mr. Whitbread) and other
Members, declared, they should not thenceforth think
themselves bound to give notice of a motbn. He
felt himself peculiarly justified in asserting the right of
a Member of Parliament to do so on an occasion
when no inconvenience could result, as the motion was
not objected to. Moreover he took the opportunity
of explicitly stating, that he should hold himself per-
fectly at liberty to make any motion on any subject
and on any day that he might think proper, without
any previous notice whatever.
The motion was then agreed to.

SUPPLY.
Mr. WHARTON moved the Order of the Day,
for the House resolving itself into %Committee of
Supply.
The SPEAKER then proceeded to put the ques-
tion, when
Mr. WHITBREAD said, that he wished to in-
quire of the Right Honourable Gentleman (before
`the Speaker left the Chair) what was the amount of
the sum intended to be moved for, as a relief to the ,
Portuguese sufferers? ii
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
replied that it would amount to te-100.000.