Star.
London, England, 1826-02-16 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. HOME SUMN ER. moved for leave to brie] in a Ell for
the erection of a Chapel of Ease, with cemetery iontzed. at Qap-
ham, in Surrey.—Read a fink time. •. -
Mr..DAYENPOKT moved for leave to btieg in a 811 for
Lighting Macclesfield with Gas, and incorporating a Company.
T. WILSON presented a Petition from Richard Guy and
William Hughes, praying leave to erect an Arcade, readditg from
Lincoln's Inn-Selsb to Holborn:—Laid-ca the table.
Sir B. W. GUISE presented a Petition from the Inhabitants of
Nailsworth, agairin Colonial Slavery; and she a Petition from
Robert Jenks, a silk throwster, against the Importation et Foreign
Silks—Both Petitions were read, and laid on the table.
Mr. DAVENPORT presented .a Petition from the Mayor,
Aldermen, Burgesses, and other Inhabitants of Congleten, against
the importation of French Silks. He also presented a similar Peti-
tion, signed by the Clergy, Gentry, Silk Throwsters, and other
Inhabitants of Sanback—Read, and laid on the table.
Mr. ELLICE presented a petition from the Protestant Dissen-
ters of Newcastle-uponayne;for the Abolition of Slavery.—Laid
on the table.
Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT presented a similar petition from the
Inhabitants of Hitching, in Hertfordshire.
Mr. BRIGHT moved for a Report on the issue of Zultetrier
Bills since the year 1793 —Ordered.
Sir R. C. FERGUSON moved for Returns of the' q*antlties
of Linseed and Rapeseed imported into England from year
Pi hit to ISIS inclusive; distinguishing the quantities Inspected in

- -
English veseek.—Ordered. •
Mr GEORGE CLERK presented an Accost* of the Unloaded
Debt of the Navy.
Mr. CILIPPS presented a petition frost the Inhabitants of
Cirencester fur the gradual Abolition of Slavery.
Mr. SPR,ING RICE moved that a Message should be-test to
the Lords fur the Report which *is presented to them last •Ses-
*ion on the state of Ireland. Ile also moved for Re.urns of the

average amount of Rank paper in Ireland friota the year 1822 to
j 025, ; of the amount of notes ender five pounds, or
the number of country banks, distinguishing those .consissing
more than six partners ; and of the number of private Union
registt red during the last six years. The Honourable Gentleman
stated the object of his motions. lie wished to shew that Par-
liament would act unwisely if they extended to Imbed laws
which they were about to enact for the regulation of English
currency. If they should do so, they would be legislating for a
country without knowing its state. He could assure the House that
there was no excess of Bank paper in Ireland. It was the interest
of the Bankers there to take care that no such excess should hap.
pen ; for if it did the cnnsequenee would be that the exchanges
would become unfavourable to them, and in that event, while paper
was convertible into specie, people would never think of taking
Eahkers fill,. Moreover measure' effectual fur regulating the
currency here would be sure to regulate that of Ireland, which
would be as completely influenced by the peel 000 iary arrangements
of London, as the pulse by the throbbings of the heart. The evil
apprehended from a circulation of one pound notes in this country
could not at all rake place in Ireland t, fox private banks had entirely
ceased to issue those notes—none putting them forth but the Na-
tional and the Joint Stock Balk.
Tyr. CA LC It AFT moved for returns of the number of pounds
of Tobaren and *riff imported into lleltainduring the years 1822,
23, 21, and 2.5.
Sir T. L ETU BRIDGE presented a Petition from two Silk
Throwsters, named Smith, against the importations of foreign silks.
—Laid on rho table.
Mr. Wll A RTON presented a Petition from the Inhabitarits of
Beverley, in the Fast Riding of Yorkshire, praying the abolition of
Slavery. Ile alto presented a Petition from the same place. for the
repeal of the Mune and Window Tax; and also a Petition from
the Spirit Dealers of the sante place. praying for relief (tom the
hardship imposed upon them by the quartering of soldiers.
USURY LAWS.
Mr. Seljeant ONSLOW rose to hting in a Bill to
rtipea) the existing laws against Usury, and which
li'rit the rare of interest on money. The Hcmonrable
and Learned Gentleman expressed deep regret that the Bill had
rot passed last year, from his conviction that its operation would
have heen highly beneficial in those districti which had suffered
most in the recent distresses.
Mr. DAVENPORT was opposed to the Bill, inas•
much as it was one which fora long time past had
gone in and out of the House. Its principle had fre-
crently been under discussion, and its rejection was in.
vrrriably the result of any inquiry which had been
raised upon it. To bestow further consideratiJn upon
such a measure was only a waste of valuable public
time. In his opinion the theory upon which the Bill was founded
was I the most dangerous character ;-and of all the plans yet de
tithed foe the injury of the landed interests, he considered - the one
now submitted to the House to be the most pernicious. He would
tell Minivtets, that if they did cot look to themselves In time their
measures would bring ruin nu the country.
. Mr. BRIGHT argued against the Bill, and hoped
that the country Gentlemen would consider how exor-
bitant 'sronld be the rate of interest, if it had passed
into a law. He wondered whether Ministers concurred
in the measure. If their plans did not succeed they would be
responsible.
Mi. IRVING, in support of the Bill, urged its vast
importance to the intetests of traders. Its provisions
would have saved many from all that ruin and distress
into which they had been plunged by the disasters of
the late eventful crisis. These were considerations of
Importance, and well deserved the attention of the House. • Had
lie ever bellb influenced by the considerations suggested by an
Honourable Gentlemao opposed to the MU, be would yet be for

its enactment. •
Mr..% II A RING supported theßill from a conviction that greater
Lberali # of dealing would be found to result from Its operation.
• Mr. SW ES did not think' it fair to shut out all dip.'
:cuision on the subject, and to dismiss the matter with.
nut giving it any consrderaticn. It would be but proper
to ex (mine the • provisions of the Bill, which were not
ye. kuown to the fjouset gnd upon that examination to
judge of the expeclietyY Oith.i'measure. The Illopotir,
able Member for Bristol was right in his observations
a itb,regaid to linittittr4..:;succeis could not te
pe ted for the pre.ent 81l withicut their concurrence.
He thought it strange that the Usury Laws had not
come under discussion in the course of the CUrrency
.estion, and he could uot conceive why some legisla-
tive measure on the subject should not be introduced
Ministers themselves. It was no better than blindness to assert,
that a repeal of the Usury Laws would be prejudisful to the Landed
Interests How frequently was money worth more than five per
cent. and when it was impossible to procure it at that rate, the only
alternative kft the distressed proprietor ef land was to have re-
course to the granting of annuities to the reduction and ultimate
ruin of his estate. He would support the measure as one, not of
mere policy, but of common justice. Money, as well as anything
else was a commodity, and its owner bad a. right tee get as much as
he could for it. He would recommend Ministers to make the re-
peal of the Usury Laws a pan of their financial system.
Mr. GORDON thought the time of the House would
be unprobtatly employed in investigating a Measure
with the detail& of which they were already quite fami
liar. Had it been proposed by Nlinisters, it would be
a different thing..for it would then test on their respon-
sihility, as a part of their financial system. But it was not a sort
of measure which ought to te adopted on the suggestion of any
individual Member. As to the care which the Hon. Member for

Hull seemed disposed to take of the Country Gentlemen, he would
recommend him to reserve his caution for himself, and allow the

Country Gentlemen to decide what was most expedient to their
concerns—a task to which they were fully adequate.
Mr. WODEHOUSE objected to the motion, as suited in
point of time.
Colonel DAVIES thought it lightlo exempt Country
Gentlemen from the operation of the Bill, it they con-
ceived it likely to do them injury. It would be easy to
afford a-lactlity to other classes of giving 15 per cent.
for money, and to make a special exception as to Country Gentle-
men, who should net be allowed to burrow money at a higher tate

than five per cent.
Mr.MONCK, arguing for the motion, drew a marked
distinction-betseeu credit and security. 7taders who
could not get money at live per cent. lest infinitely
mote by the precipitate sale of thir.goods to which their
necessities compelled them. A Country Gentleman
setputing money for a long period, and able to give
landed security for it, ought surely to give a idWer
rate of interest than the trader, who only wanted a few hundreds
f..r a few months, and could give rtnly personal security. The
late crisis afforded an excellent illustration of the badness of Usury
Laws. The trader, who Was not trusted to exercise his discretion
. as to the amount of interest which he should give for money, was
allowed to sell outs Stock at a ruinously low price, su that he paid
store for the nuariey he thereby gained than any luan could pos-
sibly cost kiln. •
Mr. JOHN SMITH expre+sed his thanks to The

•
Liained S:rjeant for the praiseworthy perseverance
with which he pressed his measure. It was notorious-
that notwithstanding the existing law. money was taken up at a rate
Of seventy-five per cent. under the scheme of selling goods, and re-
purchasing them. He spoke of his own knowledge, and his opinion
was, that the Usury Laws were ruinous to the community.
Mr. WYNN, in favour of the motion, instanced the
case of a mortgage for 40*09Q1. of which hall had been
1,41L1 off; and to raise the iesiclue the mortgager wax
fu:ced to pay nine per cent. As to a respect for the Usury Laws,
because they were enacted by our ancestors, they were introduced
when it was a prevailing principle in legislation tu regulate the price
of every :truck-.
Mr. CALCRAFT thought it ts•ould be hard for indi.
vidua's toborrow money at five per cent. Then Go.
aernment gave seven per cettt. for it. If the LearsteJ
Stijeant would say that the 1311 was to be supported by
Ministers, he (Mr.Calci aft) in courtesy would hot op-
pose it. It would then be upon their responsibility. It
was stated that money had been taken up at 75 per
Amt. The (act was notoriously trues and if all the
gambling schemes of the City were detailed, their his-

tory would be appalling to the House. But all this
would still go on even though this blessed B U were to
pass.—Let then a Bill ;be brought in applicable in its
ItTOWiSiQUS to traders alone, and excluding the landed
interests from its operation!:: Let the experiment be
tried. it would be found that the landowners would
be compelled to give higher annuities than ever. Bra
t• the landed intetests predominated so immensely in
•amount over the trading interests of the nation, being
to them as forty to a unit, that the former constituted the rule, the
latter a most insignificant exception; and yet fur this exception
they were called upon to legislate so as to embrace the rule. It was
casting a fire-brand into the money-market. Surely if the measure
succeeded the Bank Directors would not be permitted by the Pro-
prietors to leave their money at so low an interest as four per rent.
when more could be gotttti for it. every one who had lent money
on mortgage would deem it a duty to raise the rate of interest. They
might be assured that those who had most interest in mortgages
were perfecdy satisfied with their present situation • and lte would
advise the Honourable Mover to withdraw his Bill, and bring in
another, restricted In its provisions to traders, unless Ministers
fathered the measure in- its present shape,
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that tke measure had not
been properly discussed last Session. On the second
reading he hoped that the Hon. Mover would be fully
prepared to state the arguments in its support. The
Chancellor of the Exchequer had wished the motion to
be postponed for a short time (not for the Session), that
It might occasion no disturbance to the state of the Money Market.
On the second reading the Chancellor of the Exchequer would ad-
dress the House,. He would not say that he approved of the Bill
from principle; but for the last three months the operation of the
Usury Laws had been attended with much inconvenience.
The Bill was then brought in and read a Ant time.
•
FRAUDS OF THE STOCK SICRA WO&
Mr. HOBHO'USE wished to ask the Attorney-Gen.
if it Were the intention of his Majesty's sssss to introduce any
measure in the moue of the Session, for the purpose of restraining
the frauds of the Stock Exchange, some practices of which the lion.
Member detailed.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was not aware of
any such intention on the part of Ministers. If sued) a ease as the
Hon. Member for Westminster bad stated were made out, the law*
in its present state was adequate to afford relict : the parties might
be indicted for a conspiracy.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Chancellor
of the Exchequer would next Friday nigbt state the
•iews of Ministers as to the expenditure of the year.—
He hoped there would be some reduction from the ex-
travagant estima es, which could not be borne under a
metallic currency. He was* sorry if a better system of expenditure
would not be afforded. The Debt to be sun shoitisi be endured of
necessity ; but, independently of that, what occasion for the load of
seventeen millions on a peace establishment?
Mr. HERMES, in the abser:ce of the Chancellor of
the Exchequer, replied, that his Right Hon. Friend had
given notice that he sould, as usual, state the estimates
of the year on Friday week. It could not therefore be
expected that he would enter upon that statement next
Friday before the Cornelius, of Supply. The only part of the
estimate which should be stated next Friday was the charge for
seamen ; which could not be deferred to the regular day, on account
of the importance of providing for that Vilest material branch of the
public service.

Mr. HER RIES then moved the Or& of the Day for the
House resolviiie itself into a Committee of Ways pad Means.—
Agreed to. 4-•

-On the motion that the Speaker should have the Chair,
An objection was taken by Mr. HUME, that if the. House
agreed to their going into Committee now, it would unction the
vote which would hereafter be proposed bt the Hon. Gentleman,
respecting the Anneal Duthie; he they were-termed.
Mr. HERRIES remindedtbe Hon. Gentleman, who
seemed disposed to. tesist•their now going into a Com-
mittee, that the House had come to a resolution that a
supply abould.be granted; and it Would be absurd;'
after that votes slot to go into Committee tb coniitter of
the Wiyriiint Means.. If the Hiss. Gentleman wiibed
pautarly to 'mate an objection no the antmaldotles being Ms-
at present, would hene on objeetion to dime teem to be
'postponed, if a vote' of credit • were. passit to' an &:t em which
would enable the Government, to 'meet immediate and pressing
demands. • - -
Mr. BRIGHT strongly-objected to the Hesse manakins iuelf
futtlier as to a Supply until they were apprised of the farther in-
tentions of Ms Majesty's Ministers.- • • •
Mr. MABERLY said he •did- not-see there was any
reason to oppose the friction, as it would still be in their
power to yrevent any compromise of their duty to the
country at a future stage: with that view he gave
notice that en Monday neat, previous toping into Committee, he
/Mudd states variety of grievances under which the public laboured,
and on the candela of his Majesty's Ministers upon that occasion
would depend his acquiescence or non-compliance with their wishes..
Mr. HUME inquired whether the Hoe. Secretary would post.
pone the vete as to Sugar, Malt, and other dudes.
Mr. HERRIES said he should postpone the vote fur granting
certain duties on Sugar.
The House then resolved itself into a Committee. On the
modest of Mr. Harries, that 3,500,0001. now In the Exchequer,
applicable to the service of the yea: 1525, be applied to the servile
of the year 1825; he acquainted the House that it was nut intended
to move foe a greater supply than tea millions of Eachequer Bills
at present.
Mr. HUME felt a Breit disinclination to such large
sums in Exchequer Bills being allowed to get into the
hands of the Bank. In late instances the Bauk had

availed themselves of the power thus given to them, so
as to create a sudden ti,e or tall on that public security
as they pleased. By throwing an abundance of Ischequer Bills
into the market it had lowered them lately 40s. per 1001. in a few
hours. lie thought Government should be prevented from pri-
vately borrowing money from the Bank whenever it wanted it, and
that it became them to stand alone. _ _

Mr. MABBRLY should not oppose the motion, be-
cause this motion WAS essential to secure public pro-
petty. Besides, it shewcd that the Government was

anxious to withdraw from circulation too great a quan.
thy of this sort of seculky. It was high tem! this
should be remedied. Indeed he had head that the

Bank had this day gone into the niarket,• and by buying up Bache.,
quer Bills, had raised the price of thit security full 20s. 'He
hoped the .Bank would, with its usual liberaiity and fairneµ
abstain from imprudently influencing the money market in any
manner which might iujuru the prisate property of individuals
beyond all calculation.
Mt. IRVING conceived the Bank had only done in
this instance what it was intiticd to dp. It was well

known that thongh the commercial world must be
supplied with money for its purposes, the supply by
mercantile discounts was uncertain and irregular. The
merchants, however, were nut particular how they got
their money, so as their seas a regular supply adequate to their

wants. wtth a slew to create such a supply, bad gone
into the' market, and bought up Exchequer liil.s, which oreated an
Wine of their notes. it had a clear right.to do so. When there
wasbut small propor\ion of the circulating mediunt, it bought
up Exchequer Bills; when a larger proportion, ur when unmet was
•
plenty, it was its time to\dispose of them.
Mr. BRICiHT thought Government supine in their
efforts to meet the pteaent pressure. Ht was of opinion
that 500,0001. wo.th of Ekchequer sent to dif-

erent towns whete the presule was most felt, would
make a very important ehaige in the mercantile world for the
better, by relieving those whose pressing demands requited an int.
inediate loan of something like money.
' Mr. CHAR L..ES GRANT regretted extremely the re-
mark which had been made, that Government bed

treatei the distress and difficulty of the moilied intere.ts
lot the country with indifference; and he was the more
sorry to hear this horn an Honourable Member whose
patriotism it might be supposed would have prevented
his having give', utterance to such a sentiment. It was
clearly indifferent to the Bank how tNe supply of the
circul‘tion was kept up, whether by discouniis plicate

, bills, or by purchasing up Exchequer Bills. Here it'
seemed they had preferred the latter. This operation
of the Wok "as instead of being prejudicial, actually
beneficial to those labouring under commercialembar-
rAssosents. He assured the House, and the Honourable
Welber opposite, that Giviennweet deeply sympathised wAth
those who were suffering under the present premre, and that in
the variety of projects pressed on their attention hourly his Ma-
jesty's Ministers would not desist from every possille effort to
assist them consistent with the public interest.
Mr. T. WILSON repeated the objections he had
made on a-former night to the project now about to be
acted upon by Government. In despite of the vote of
Friday night be still continued of opinion that nothing
could be materially serviceable to those who were suffering, except
an ince or Exhequer Bills, to be advanced by way of loan, on the
depuit of their property.
Mr. HUTCHINSON gave credit to Government for
being deeply interested in the distresses of the country
at the present moment. He believed sincerely that
much of our distress arose from the expensive nature of
our Government. He trusted, therefore, that a still.
more rigid system of economy in every department, would elle.
racteri se the measures of this year.—The Vote was then agreed to.
Mr. HERRIES said a ward bad escaped from an
Honourable Member behind him (Mr. T. WILSON),
which he believed had been spoken without considera-
tion. 'He had intimated that Ministers were inclined to
treat the distresses of the commercial interests f. lightly."
He hoped he bad not considered the full weight of the
ward—indeed, he felt certain that if he had more care-

fully attended t• its full implication the word never
would have escaped him. If he (Mr. Hetries) did not
answer tl:e various topics which had been introduced
it the shape in which they had been placed before the
House, it was because he could not do so withont en-
tering into ad elaborate discussion, which would be
altogether inconsistent with the state of the House at
that time. T.e Honourable Member for the City of
London had adverted to the species of relief which had
been held out.by means of the purchase of Exchequer
Bills, and seemed to think that its effect would be
extremely trifling, and that it was to be considered ra-
ther as a measure of the Bank Chan of the Crovernment ;
but he would refer him to what passed last night, by
which he would perceive that it was a measure of
Government, for the Bank could not proceed, if the Government
had not pledged itself to bring forward in the course of the Session
a measure to enable them to repay to the Bank such-advances as
they might make, in accordance with what bad been then stated.
A further vote of all suck balances as were in the hands of the
Bank, with lottery prizes, under 100,0004 in amount, was agreed to.
The following Votes were then agreed.
For Military and Naval Pensions . ._ . ,e4,00:1,000

'wards the support of troops in the territorial service
of the East India Company . . . .
o be raised by. Exchequer Bins, for the service of the
Tear 1826.

10,000,000

...seated Fund for immediate service . . 5,4)00,000
The Vote for the Annual Duties was postponed according to
;regiment, and the report was ordered to be received to-morrow.
The Committee of Supply was fixed for Friday next.
Mr. HERMES obtained leave to bring in the Annual Indem-
nity Bill.
Mr. BERRIES then brought in the Bill to limit, and after a
certain dme prohibit, the circulation of certain Promissory Notes,
under & in England, which was read a first, and ordered to be read
a second time on Friday. seat, and in the interim be printed.
The Moose then adjourned at Balf.past Seven o'Clock.