Star.
London, England, 1819-02-26 00:00:00

it AP- _ , breach of privilege on Wednesday,
~and
end. It was not his opinion that the.prayer co( the Petition should Teursdar guilty of libencZsetili .
be granted, or even much dismissed ; but he wished that we theta_ therefore, to-morrow, , the
should break down by degrees that system of protecting duties, the, . • Member the
which he Was convinced was productive of much evil. .
Hon. for dikharge of Mr
The Petitiott was then read, add laid upon the table. WINDSOR errARLASM*IIWII-
:,
Mr. DUNDAS presentee two Petitions to the tiameellett; . Lord CASTLEREAGH moved the, Order
from 4:keettere-ei Lend In the Counties of Berl" and of that. Day for receiving the Report of the Conine._
-Theeglh he dill see'lleee with the prayer of these Petitions, r the iradeor Establishment. The Orderfif the. Day
'when its authors came forward in .a constitutional manner, e
est:eight it his duty to 'resent them. Neither was it astonishing having been lead, Lordship +moved that the Re-
Wit theysksukt complain, if they found that they could aot pro- port be now received,
duce wheat * the price at wh it ich was imported. It must also The Report was-th which was agreed to..
en brought up by Mr. BROG-
be recollected, *lt the employment of the poor dependedin a •
great measure en the prosperity of farmers, who, by an in- DEN, add the different Resolutions read and put to
crease of wages, could alone prevent them from Coming upon the vote. The two first were agreed t 6 without any
the parish.-seLaid ob the table. observation, but on the third being read, for grant-
• Mr. PANE presented similar Petitions from Occupiers of ing £lO,OOO a-year out of the Civil List to the Duke
Land near Oxford and Henley upon Thames.—Laid on thetable.
a York, as Curies Perrone,
Mr. BENNET, in presenting a similar Petition freer', Occu- _
piers of Land in the County of Salop, stated that he was not
Mr. t.:URWEN rose. He had been in hopes that
sure of the expediency of the la* Corn BiU, and should cer- the House would have received another disclaimer
saltily not conseet to any new experiment.—Laid on the table. from a certain quarter, more comprehensive than the
Petitions to the same effect, front Occupiers of Land in the
last, and which would have given universal satisfac-
Counties of Montgomery, Denbigh, Essex, Cambridge, Wen-
inersland, Hereford, and Middlesex, were then presented by tion both to Parliament and to the country. It was
Mr. WIMPS, Mr. WIDEEIMN, Sie A, HOPE, Sir J. SMOOCH?, and with deep regret he had been informed, in common
Mr. Brato.—The Petitions were read and laid on the table. with the House, that his Royal Highness found more
LIMERICK ELECTION. difficulty in taking the proposed allowance out of
The Clerk of the Limerick Election reported that the Privy Purse, than from the people at large--
the following Members had been chosen by ballot to (Hear, hear).—He deprecated the discussion of such
try the merits of that Election: a topic this night, but when it was pressed upon ,
Sir J. Staunton, Bart. Sir C. Mordsunt, Bart. Cuthbert EIS- him, it only remained to desert a sacred duty, or to'
son. Esq. P. Price, Esq. W. Grifith, Esq. Lord
Viscount
Wey- over-rule his feelings. He was convinced that no
mouth. Sir T. Baring, Bart. J. Walker, Ts
,7' B. a Gurney, economy
v which would trench upon the comforts of
Esq. the Earl of Easton, C. Palmer, Esq. J.. laberly, Esq. W. • '
Retell, Esq. N. Calvert, Est. and the Right lic). J. Barry. his Majesty would find a_ single supporter in the
• The names of the defaulters on last Friday's ballot House, but fettunately the present question stood
were then called over, and the defaulters ordered to completely apart from such considerations. It was
attend the House at stated days. impossible to conceive that any sum of money tould
-Met. GRADY. increase the care and tender attentions of the Custos
Sir ROBERT WILSON stated that he held a Pe- towards his Royal Parent. Those were not to be
tition from the person who had been committed last purchased, and would be most affectionately be-
night to Newgate for a breach of the privileges of the stowed without any remuneration. He (Mr. Cur-
House. This person had applied to him to present wen) was executing a duty painful to his feelings, but
his petition, and had in some measure established his it was necessary for him to compare the situation of
claim upon him, by introducing into his petition a the Royal I)uke, as he now was, with what it was
letter which he had in his possession three weeks. It intended to make him. Since his Royal Highness's
was a letter written on the 2d of November last by return to the office of Commander-in Chief, his ser-
the Honourable Member for Limerick to Mr. Grady, vices in that capacity had certainly been beneficial
and whit+ was now produced to spew chat no hos- to the country at large. But however useful that
'tile feeling existed in the mind of that Ilonourable office might be, still it was a new one, and imposed
Member, even after he had received the communica. a heavy additional burden upon the country. It was
tion which Mr. Grady denied having sent him. The one, however, the abolition of which heshould now
letter was expressive of all those tine feelings which be the last to propose. But when he considered that
Ire understood and believed were natural to the Ho. it yielded to his Royal Highness a revenue of A 5,000
nourable Member, but somewhat at variance with per annum, besides perquisites to a great amount—
the tone of the reply which thnt4lonourable Mem- that his other emoluments from various situations
her lead stated the other day that he'had sent to Mr. amounted to upwards of £lO,OOO a-year, and that
kited?. The letter was now subjoined, and the Ho- he received in addition £l/420,000 yearly from the
nourable Member would have it in his power to as- country, making, upon the whole, his revenue nearly
certain,tvhether it was his own or not. With respect equal to £60,000, he could nit conceive that he la-
to the petitions, he should confine himself, as he had boured under any deficiency of income, or that it was
done yesterdaf to the narrative of the petitioner him. necessary to add to it. The country had a fair right
self. He stated that he had been sent to Newgate to expect that no such augmentation should be made.
for a breach of privilege, of which he humbly sub- Now with respect to the situation of the Custos, what
mitred there was no sufficient proof before the House. expense would it entail upon his Royal Highness ?
The letter which he was charged with having written He (Mr. Curwen) knew of no other than that of post-
had neither post-mark nor envelope, and did not once ing twice a week from London to Windsor, and back
contain the name of the Honourable Member to again. Supposing ..it to amount to £5OO, or even
whom it had been taken to have been directed. That £l,OOO a-year, which was certainly the outside, he
letter he supposed to have been ant 'about the middle would consider it an offence to propose a remunera-
of October, and on the 17th of November he had re- tion to his Royal Highness for so trifling an expendi-
ceivgl one from the Honourable Member, dated No- ture. But other charges had been mentioned. What
itemiser 2, which no one could conceive to be an an- were they ? Something hid been stated about fees,
s.wer tQ so offensive a communication as that which and objects of generosity ; .but all fluisesiere to be
he was accused of having made. That letter was Paid out of a different fund. There was no expense,
dated Adair, November 2, 1818, and was to the fol- he must contend, to be incurred by his Royal High-
lowing effect: ness, but the small posting account which he had
" I stand so perfectly clear of the charges intended to be mentioned, and for which his Royal Highness would
brought against me that I shall cheerfully commit myself to the not certainly require that an addition should be made
judgment of the House of Commons. You say that I have to the burthens of 'the country. There was no man
given you mortal offence; I im sorry to hear it, for nothing was
Who did not
further from my mind, and if I knew when I did so, I should witill that economy should be introduced
have great pleasure in repairing -my wrong. Some loa3 and into every branch where it was practicable. But
angry letters have pawed between us; but I did not begin the when the Noble Lord opposite had said that the
correspondence. I could not forget that you had been very kind House was disposed to bear hard on any grant pro-
to me ut early life, and could not see without regret so ancient
osed for the Royal Family, he ought to have recol-
an intimacy on the eve of being parted." The writer then con- P
chided, by subscribing himself, " your's truly." lected with what feeling the House had last year
Mr. Grady stated besides that he had received other measured those grants, which might be called nig-
friendly lettere subsequent to the foregoing, and did gardly, but which had been reduced in order not to
not recollect receiving one of the offensive nature diminish, but t o preserve in their integrity, the love
which the Honourable Member had last night men- and veneration of the people for the family of their
dosed. To all these statements the petitioner was Sovereign. It was impossible not to confess that
'ready to add the sanctity of an oath, and thus to ex- those reiterated applications for money had given
pose Himself to a prosecution for perjury, if they general offence to the country--(Hear, hear)—and
turned out to be false. He submitted also that if he he was determined not to vote one shilling of remu-
were
not allowed to assist his son, in the approaching neration for the Custos, fully persuaded that the du-
inquiry, the public interest might suffer. DesCending ties of that office would be as tenderly and as effec-
then to secondary considerations, he urged that he tively performed by his Royal Highness without, as
was labouring under a severe illness. He also sub- with the grant proposed. He should therefore take
nutted to the House that he might have retired be- the sense of' the House on the present Resolution.
fore an order had been made out for his committal ; Mr. ROBINSON concurred with the Honourable
but he had patiently awaited its decision, and trusted Gentleman in one point. He would agree •to keep
for relief to its generosity and justice. The Hon. the services of his Royal Highness as Commander-
Member then moved that the petition be brought up. in-Chief out of sight, but then he would require the
Mr. WYNDHAM QUIN had no hesitation in salary which he received for their performance to be
avowing the letter which had been read, as his own, also left out of the question. No person could be
and he did not think any breast in the House would more willing to make a sacrifice for' the benefit of
consider that it contained any sentiment for whichhe the public than the Duke of York ; and the proof of
need to blush—(Hear, hear,*hear). He owned that this was, that he was now discharging the duties of
be had not considered Mr. Grady to be serious when the office of Custos without knowing whether Parlia-
he had first intimated the charge on which he would ment would make any allowance for the heavy ex-
call for a Parliamentary Inquiry. He owned too ceases incident to it—(ffear, hear).—The Right Hon.
that lie had answered Mr. Grady's letters with more Gentleman talked of this discussion having been &-
mildness than they deserved, but he did not wish that truded upon the House, and alluded to the discus-
the act of'the father should be visited on the sod, and sions which had taken place last year on the grants
he felt that Mr. Grady had been kind to him is early proposed for the Royal Family. But he begged the
life, which he was still desirous not to forget: After House to recollect, that the objection to the votes
writing the letter which had been read, he had re. proposed last Session.was to the amount, and not to
ceived another of a different nature. It was then the principle; whereas theubjections to the vote now
that he had written that which had been read yester- in question was nut to the amount, but to the princi-
day, end with which he had closed the correspon- ple—( flews hear).—This was a substantial distinct-
deuce. As to the prayer which the petition put forth tion between the vote proposed now and those which
for indulgence, there was no one Member iii the had been brought forward last Session. On the whole
House who prayed more fervently for indulgence to question, heswas convinced that the House would
•Mr. Grady than he did—(Hear, hear, hear). . feel that the sum now proposed was only Inch es was
The petition was then read, and on Sir R. %ewes necessary to enable his Royal Highneseto mod the
motion, ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. extraordinary expenses incideld to the office—that
• Mr. HUTCHINSON, after paying a warm tribute they would feel that the sum which was fixed in 1812,
of peaise to the conduct of the honourable Member on an inquiry into,thiamotnit of the expenses, must
for Limerick, which had been so creditable to him be no more than was strictly proper, and such as the
both yesterday and this night, expressed his intention , House ought to allow, considering' the great corrati-
of meeing,to-morrow, that Mr. Grady be discharged tutional importance of the office, and Of the duties
from N thich were now imposed on hisitoyal Highness the
Mr. WeOltt AHAM BOOTLE considered the first Duke of Yor k—( Hear, hear).
part of Mr. Grady's petition as arraigning the sen- Mr. DENMAN said, it was with'unaffected ditE-
met of the House, which it represented as has ing dense that he offered himself to the attention of Ike
been passed without sufficient evidence. He called House at this time, when he was aware there Mkt .
be so many persons of rank and consideration deal=
which the Clerk to read again that part of the petition,
orhich having
.been done, the Honourable Member runs of stating their sentiments on this most import
..1,..p0t that it wax too much to propose on Friday taut question. He could not help thinking that, not:
to discharge a man who had been committed for a withstanding the vote to which'the Mann' had.tomi

upon a question tonnectal with the,
that they could .not beitsinced to
Motion. He could not but-think
who had voted against the amend-
Honourable Friend, had felt great
point
r ionfd el law
which
law la
V osn the subject
in
was so clear and precise, that it was reduced to the
meaning of some one clause of a statute, was SQ plain
that it required a sort of perverse ingenuity to dis-
pute it, then it was very ssrprising that the Noble
Lord opposite should have had recoufse to that most
extraordinary language by which he endeavoured to.
intimidate the House, and to, persuade them, that if'
they disagreed from his construction of it ahey- would
cover themselves with infamy—( Hear, hear.) Nor
could he understand in that case why the Honourable
Member for Oxford (Mr. Peel) should have thought
it necessary to adopt a strain not so much calculated
to convince the understanding of the House, as to
seduce thefts by an appeal to their passions. But
whatever doubts might be entertained by others, he
was quite sure that the Royal Duke who was impli-
cated in this question was quite satisfied that there
was nothing in point of law to prevent the privy
purse from being liable to pay the expenses incident
to the important office of Custos Personae of the King.
If this was not the feeling of the Royal Duke, what
could be thought of the Message which had been
brought down to the House? It would be as if his
Royal Highness had said to them—" I warn you not
to commit a robbery, or if you do commit it I shall
not be your accomplice"—(Hear, hear.) But be could
not take that Message in any such sense. The only
fair construction to be put upon it was, that it pro-1
ceeded from a conviction on the mind'of his Royal
Highness that the expenses could lawfully be charged
on the privy purse; and in that view the Message
must be construed as meaning—. I am aware, that
you have a right to charge the sum upon the privy
purse; but as a matter of delicacy, I wish you not to.
consider me as personally implicated, and not to al-
low your decision to be influenced by regarding any
thing but the mere duties of the office." Some Mem-
bers, however, had taken a very different view of the
subject, and argued it on very different' grounds,
The Honourable Member for Oxford had thought it
necessary to take a very extensive view of all the
Acts of Parliament. connected with the subject; and
after making a sort of sentimental journey (Laughter)
through the various statutes, descanting upon each,
and finding that the preamble of the Act in which
ale sum now in question was first voted, vi'as one of
the most elegant and affecting compositions in the
language—(llear, hear, hear!) But he was far from
thinking the it was not an interesting and affecting
spectacle to see large sums of money voted to the
Royal Family—to see a people still labouring under
the burdens of a most expensive'war, oppressed with
enormous taxes, carrying their hard earnings to the
foot of the throne, as a proof of their-loyalty and at-
tachment—(Hear, hear' hear!) But it was too much
to find that those -munificent proofs of loyalty which
had been given by the people in prosperous times,
should be tuned into an argument in favour of such
a vote as was now proposed, or that it should be
urged on the ground that it was necessary, to enable
a son to perform the most sacred of all duties to an
aged 'and afflicted father—(Hear, hear,' hear!) If it
was agreed to on the grounds on which it was pressed
on the House, the preamble of the Act should be—
. That whereas it bad pleased ALmtoury GOD to
visit his Majesty with a severe indisposition ; and
whereas on former occasions, and under a prosperous
state of the finances, Parliament had voted large sums
to the Royal Family in testimony of their loyalty and
attachment; and whereas the people were now, in the
time of peace, labouring under the burden of heavy
taxes, which had been imposed to maintain the war;
it was therefore expedient that the sum of £lO,OOO
should be now granted;' &c.-(Hear, hear, hear 1)1
What were the duties which the Duke of York was'
called upon to discharge? Was he called upon to
perform a single duty beyond that which every son
was bound to render, under such circumstances?—,
The only, argument worth notice which had been ad-
vanced in favour of the Motion was, that in 1812,
when the duties of the office of Custos were regula-
ted, a similar sum had been voted to her late Ma-
jesty. As to the sum then voted, he could only say,
that he thought his Right Honourable Friend (Mi'.
Tierney) had done himself great honour in opposing
it; yet the House, in spite of that opposition, had
agreed to vote that sum, not on general grounds, but
on account of the peculiar circumstances of her Ma-
jesty's situation. It was then considered too that we
were involved in a great and expensive war, which
was supported by extraordinary exertions, and at
such an extraordinary expense, that among the im-
mense sums which It was then necessary to provide
for the public expenditure, the sum of £lO,OOO for
her Majesty Was a perfect trifle—mere dust in the
scale. But these considerations would not now avail.
The exertions were now over, the war was at an end,
and the reckoning was to be paid. • But the House
was told, that the duties imposed by this office were
of a high constitutional and public nature. As to this,
he must say it was strange they had never heard any
thing about the duties till the vote was proposed.--
Some particulars of these duties had, however, now
been disclosed. It seemed there was a Council to at-
tend. Now really it would appear that if this Council
were necessary, any salary to be allowed ought to
be bestowed upon them--(Hear)---for they were the
legal, proper, and constitutional advisers of the CSIS-
tos. But if it appeared that on the furmpr occasion
the House of Commons had been betrayed into the
measure, which could be supported on no just ground,
and of which the continuance was not j'bstified by
any public reason, this was the time when it should
be positively resisted,, Me was very far from thinking!
that the question now before the House was involved
in that discussed and decided the other night. As to
the latter, hi agreed with the Noble Lord opposite,
that any man who entertained, a doubt as to the
tharging the expenses on the Privy Purse, ought to
have voted against the amendment of hi: Right Hon.
Friend. If there was any doubt on that question, it was
ttaiaon enough,why the_Parlianient ought do; to in.
liutthequestion now before them was left
iimite °kin: Sidle did not feel that he had any right
anticrpatelont any Wilber would vote• upon it
front the vote which hei had given owthe other. It
remot one which could be represented as, a sPolia-
, skim Prier Puns, attempted by those pro&
iMspagadoetnitheltad so little weight or'cuissi-

mad who, on the olheresieht upo
House. He, presentbsubjeci, tha
me motion of arrest° the pfesent
4r. Gridy.:4l thserinaty of those N
. %aunt of his Right
Order of the4subt as to the porn
;committee on %se decision. Or if