Star.
London, England, 1826-12-07 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

The S,i*ua took the Chair at the usual hour, and informed
the Home that Peddlers bad been received from the Clerk of tiro
Crown is Inland, complaining of the Elections for the County of
caves arm use vown or Qahrly.-1-40r4orea w De taken lute coml.
derides on the nth of January.
Tise SPEAKER mid be had to call the attention of the House
to a Petition received yesterday, complaining of the Limerick
Election. Ttie Petition was unobjectionable ass. form, but it had
been found, upon closes inspection, m be a Petition spina the on-
successful Candidate, and net the successful one.

The other For prhiting dot Petition was discharged and it was
ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. A BERCROMBT moved the issuing of a New Writ for a
Member to serve in Parliament for the City of Cork, in the room
of Mr. C. H. Hutchineen, deceased.—Ordered.
Mr. ABERCROMBY said, he had also to move that a New
Writ be issued for a Member to serve in Parliament for the Borough
of Einsifo in the room of Lord Duncannon. The &misnames
upon which he made this motion were, that Lord Duocsanoa hay
lag been returned for the County of Kilkenny, and also for tilt
Borough of Bansff, his LoribLi. p load made his election to hit for the
Cooney of Kilkenny. lie anticipated no obioetion to this the usual
coolie of proceeding.
The SPEAKER said, that the House would, as it always did,
take the step proposed upon the responsibilky of the Honourable
Member who stated the facts.

A New Writ was accordingly ordered.
Mr. JAMES BROWNE gave notice, that we. Oar the boll-
, days he should move for a Return of Papers reladve to terrain
Police Reports made in the County of Mayo.

BOHAI' CATHOLIC PRIM&
.

Mr. MOORE presented a Petition from Mr. Emanuel
Hutchinson Orpen, stating that the Petitioner exer-
cised the privilege of a British subject in laying before
the House his views of the state of Ireland. chiefly with
reference to a particular subject—namely, the power
exercised by the Roman Catholic Priesthood, of excom-
municating and denouncing the subje:ts of their Church.
The Petition stated a variety of facts, that are matters
of notoriety, and refined to several past and existing
evils, that he considered as flowing from this power.
He said, that this Petition opened a wide field for ob-
servation, into which, however, he would not enter, as
he anticipated that 'many of the topics adverted to, and
suggested by, the Petition would, in the course of the
,Session, receive the serious consideration of the House.
But this he might be permitted to observe, that the
power complained of by the Petitioner was of a more
formidable nature, not confined in its operations to
spiritual censures, but extending to the infliction of
temporal injuries, of the most grievous description. It
was a power, the mere possession of which, without its
I exercise, created an influence in the Roman Priesthood
almost Incredible, and he considered it as one of the many striking
characteristics of that Braised system of religion and politics* which
placed the Roman Catholic subjects of this realm in such a position
with respect to the &ate, as rendered it impossible for them, in
his opinion, to give any security fur the due exercise of political
power, if ever such should be granted to them—a position that
mainly contributed to form the conviction long entertained by him,
that on no terms can further concessions be safely made to the
Roman Catholics.

Mr. S. RICE did not rise to object to the reception of
the Petition, but he could not suffer one part of it to
pass without contradiction. It was most offensive
in its character; and he should not be discharging his
duty to his constituents if he sat quiet while such obser-
vations as those used by the Hon. Member were deli-,
'erect in that House. The Petition stated :bat the Ca-
tholic Priesthood of Ireland possessed the power of
excommunication, and that they had lately exercised it
in a manner beyond that in which they were justified in
using it. He would say nothing upon that question,
because it was already in a course to be examined and
decided by an Election Committee of that House, wheie
evidence would be taken upon oath, and not statements
contained in a Petition which any individual might
choose to lay before Parliament. The Hon. Member
had slated his regret that religion should bare been com-

blued with politics. He (Mr. Rice) regretted as much
as the Hon. Member did, that religion should be corn•
bined with politics—(Hear, bear). He regretted it because religion
was degraded, and politics were perverted by such an association—
(Hear, hear). He strongly recommended the Hon. Member and
the House to keep their minds unprejudiced, and not allow them-
*Ayes to be swayed in tYse'r judgment by the statements of indivi-
duals contained in Petitions, when they saw that there was a war
iminted out by the Constitution by which these charges might be
nvestigated and decided by Parliament.
Mr, J. GRATTAN exprer.ed his regret that such a
Petion had been presented to the 11' use. He believed
that the Catholic Priesthood had not interfered to the
extent which had been stated, and' that ti.eir conduct
was justifiable. How was it possible for politics to be
kept separate from religion, when religion was made the ground of
their political exclusion from the privileges of the State! He was
sorry the Hon. Member had taken such an occasion for delivering
a tirade spinet the Catholic Clergy. He believed that our Clergy
bad exercised the same interference as far as their religion al-
lowed theti.
Colunet TORRENS etpressed his surprise at one senlimeet
which had fallen from the Hon. Member who presented the Peti-
tion. He alluded to the principle of requiring seeseity from the
Catholics. What security could be equal to that sirloins from the
attachment which so large a body must feel for institutions whom
privileges they enjoyed in common with all other classes in the
State? If the principlelaid down by the Hon. Member were folly
acted upon, it must lead to the dismemberment of the empire.
The prayer of the Petition was then read. It prayed that any
Ptiest who denounced any Individual, or pronounced any anathema
or curse against him, might be made liable to a penalty of 101. pay-
able to the party.
Mr. Moose moved that the Petition be printed.
Mr. S. RICE said be would put it to the Hen. Member whe-
ther be would have the statements in the Petition printed and ass
to the other side of the water to excite all the unpleasant animosity
and alarm which could not fail to attend such a course ? He en-
treated the Hon. Member to consider whether this was net a case
calling for the exercise of some discretion and caution.
Mr. MOORE said, that in some shape or other the
Petition ought to receive the consideration of the House.
It was not for him to say how far the Petitioner might
be able or disposed to bring forward evidence at that
Bar in support of the statements contained in his Peti-
tion ; but of this he had no doubt, that the evil com-
plained of was one of general operation,and one cal ling for
a general remedy. If the Hon. Gen'. who had last spo-ken
took a right view of the subject, he would be foremost in
I correcting the evil against which the Petition was di-
' rected. Ile denied that he had pronounced, as the Hon.
Gentleman opposite bad alleged, a tirade against the
Roman Catholic Clergy. In the exercise of the power of
excommunication, be gave them full credit for believing
they were directed by a sense of duty ; but it was of this
persuasion, with respect to duty, that he chiefly com-
plained. It was not to be borne, that any portion of his Ma-
jesty's subjects should be exposed to serious temporal in.
Juries, by the doing edam which another portion conceived it to be
their duty to do. He could not help expressing some surprise at
the warmth with which the Honourable Member for Ipswich re.
preached him foe advancing that the Roman Catholics would not
give security ifor the due exercise of political power. It was, on
his part, the fair declaration sit a political principle, and the honest
avowal of aspolidad trebles.% which be had the concurrence of
some of thb ablest Statesmen of theil. He mold assure the
Itenourallor lieniber ay
,It was an avowid which be should arm
feel ashamed.

Mr. S. RICE (having examined the Petition) thought
he could convince the Hon. Member, or at least the
House, that the Petition ought not to be printed. It
contained statements of the torture of individuals, the
burning of whole families, and all the massacres and
bloodshed which had recently taken place in Ireland,
many of which—he would appeal to the Right Hon.
Secretary of Ireland whether he was not correct—many
of which were entirely unconnected with religious mat-
tens. The murder of the Franks had been declared by
the Attorney-Genend n• Ireland, in his place in Par-
liameni, to have had no reference whatever to religious
feelings. After making these statements, the Petition
went on to attack the conduct of the Catholic Clergy,
and to call for a new code of laws against them, evi-
dently intending to connect them with these enormities.
He therefore regretted that the Petition had been pre•
seated at all, but hoped that the Hon. Member would
not persist in having it printed. He detested this re-
viving of old animosities, and the recurrences to past enoruddeson
either side—(Hear, hear). But if that book was to be opened, lett
it not be supposed that they were to hear one side of the put alone
—(Har, heat). They would again have to recur to all the black
and bad parts of the history of Ireland.which every good Irishman,
desired to forget—(Hear, hear). This Petition, if printed and cir-
culated in Ireland, would be like a firebrand thrown into the
'country; and be again entreated the Hon. Member, while he had
Oast
time, as hi valued the peace of Ireland, to withdraw his motion to
drat.

Mr. GOULBURN said be thought the Hon. Gent.
bad taken a tone of expression far beyond what the
occasion required. It must be remembered, that when
Petitioners came to the Bar of that House with matters
of complaint, they did not express themselves with the
same temperance and caution with which they (the
Members) delivered their opinions. And if he were
asked whether he approved of all the contents of thii
Petition, he should have no hesitation in answering in
the negative—(Hear). He conceived it to be the duty
of every honest man to consider the question to which
it referred with the utmost calmness and deliberation. But it mast
be remembered, that other Petitions were constantly received in
which other sentiments and statements were expressed with equal
warmth and violence. If the House were prepared to say that
they would not receive any such Petitions, then he was ready to
concur in refusing to print this. But if they were to select this
one in particular, and distinguish its reception from others equally
violent and exaggerated on the other side of the question, then he
thought they would be creating quite an opposite effect in Ireland
to that intended by the lion. Member.
Mr. ABERCROMBY said that tl e Right Hon.
Gentleman had altogether mistaken the coutte recom-
mended by his Hon. Friend. What his Hon. Friend
asked, and what he hoped the Hon. Member would still
grant, was, that the printing of the Petition should be
suspended for the present, b, cause it contained state-
ments likely to make an undue impression ul on the
minds of those who would afterwards have to decide
upon the matter to which it referred. It should be re-
membered that the case about to come before the
Election Committees was of a perfectly novel descrip-
tion, and it was peculiarly desit able that the minds of
those who had to decide it should be kept free from
prejudice, when they had none of the landmarks of
precedent and former decisions to guide them. He
considered that no question was so important in its
claims upon the attention of the new Parliament as the
case of Ireland. He had been twenty years in Perlis.
ment, and he had attended every discussion of the sub.
ject in which Ireland was must interested, always voting
in favour of the Catholics. Since the last Session he
had been in Ireland ; and float what he had seen there,