The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-12-06 00:00:00

EARTHQUAKES.

(From Dr. Traill's Physical -Geography.) '
The terrible effects of earthquakes have attracted attention
in every age, and records of some such convulsions have de-
scended to us from very remote ages. No period of our

eartles history has been more noted for the violence and ex-
tent of earthquakes than that between the-first, third, and
the middle of the fourteenth century. China was terribly
convulsed for ten years from 1333, when Kiang-si, its capital,
was swallowed up; mountains were engulphed ; and floods,
occasioned by the obstruction of the course of the rivers, de-
stroyed vast multitudes of human beings. The concussions
extended westwards, and Asia Minor and. Egypt were vio-
lently shaken in 1316; while, in the following year, severe
earthquakes were experienced in Cyprus, Greece, and Italy.
In 1692, the island of Jamaica was visited by a most terrible
.2irthquake, in which enormous masses cf earth and rock
were detached from the Blue Mountains; and vast quantities
of timber, hurled from their flanks, covered-the adjacent sea
like floating islands. It was during this earthquake that the
city of Port Royal, with a tract of adjacent lands, estimated
at 1000 acres, sunk; in one minute. into the deep. In the
succeeding year, great earthquakes in Sicily destroyed the
city of Catania, and 140 other towns and villages in that

island, where upwards of 100,000 persons perished: 1746,
Lower Peru suffered severely from this calamity. Tae ocean
burst in upon the land with irresistible force, whetiathe barrier
of laud sunk into the sea, Lima was overwhelmad, and
the present port of Callao formed. These convulsions were
accompanied by eruptions of water and mud from several
voheutos among the Andes. lii 1750, the city of Concep-
tion, in Chili, disappeared during an earthquake, and the
sea rolled over it. In 1755, the city of Lisbon mesa in a -
great measure destroyed by one of • the most terrible
earthquakes that ever visited Europe. The mountain chains
between the Douro and the Tagus were most, dreadfully
convulsed. The new mole at Lisbon, to which the multi-
tude had fled, as to a place of safety, sunk suddenly into a
hideous abyss, and not one body floated to the sncrace, ncr
were any fragivents of the'vessels, sucked- into the chasm,
rendered up, and on the spot there is now an hundred fa-
thoms of water. In this awful convulsion at Lisbon, sixty
thousand persons perished in about six minutes. A violent
shock threw down the greatest part of the city and the sea
retired, leaving the bar momentarily dry; but suddenly a
mighty wave, fifty feet high, rolled in on the devoted city.
The extent of the term motes, on this cccasion, is very re-
markable. The violence of the shocks, which were accom-
panied by a fearful subterranean noise, like the loudest than-.
der was chiefly felt in Portugal, Spain, and Northern
Africa ; but its effects were perceived over a considerable
part of Europe, and were even experienced in the West In-
dies. Our Scottish lakes, particularly Loch Ness and Loch
Lomond, rose and fell repeatedly on that dreadful day.
Ships at sea were affected by the shocks, as if they had
struck on rocks, and their crews were in sonde instances
thrown down by the violence of the concussions. In 1766,
the island of Trinidad, and great part cf Colombia, were
violently agitated by earthquakes ; an islet in the Orinoco,
disappeared, and laud in other parts of the coast was raised
above the waters. In 1772, the lofty volcano of Papern.-
dlang„ (the loftiest: mountain throughout Java,) entirely
disappeared, and an area around, fifteen miles by six, •
was swallowed up. Most terrible earthquakes desolated
Calabria in 1783. This -calamity has been admirably described
by several writers:among whom we may mention Dr. Vivens
zio, Grimaldi, Six Hamilton, Dolomieu, and the
commission of the ttoyal Academy of Naples. The violence
of the shocks was chiefly felt in the Farther Calabria, and in
the neighbourhood of Messiha. The principal agitation was
felt over an area of five hundred squasse miles. Many sudden
sinkings of the land were perceived, numerous fissures were
formed, and partial elevations were effected in some places.
The greatest depression happened at Terra Nuova, Oppido,
and Santa Christina ; a fissure a mile in length, a hundred
and five feet in width, and thirty feet in depth, opened at
PlaiSano ; another, about the same length, and a hundred
feet in depth, was formed at Cerzulle •, and at La Fortuna, a
chasm a quarter of a mile in length, thirty feet in width, and
two hundred and twenty-five feet in depth, suddenly opened
in the ground. In some districts considerable mountain-
slips, or the separation of huge masses of earth and reek,
took place ; and along the Straits of Messina, in the neigh-
botirhood of Scylla, the cliff of Gian-Grcco, a mile in length,
was precipitated on the subjacent houses and gardens. A
fragment detached by the earthquake from Mount Jaci
crushed multitudes who had fled to the shore for safety ; and,
at the same moment, a wave broke on the devoted shore,
and swept away the aged Prince of Scylla, and numbers of
his people.
In the year 1797, Upper, Peru was terribly coevulsed.
The shocks of earthquakes was continued with great violence
for three months, and the face of the country in the
centre of convulsion was totally change:3. In 1811, violent
earthquakes shook the valley of the Mississippi, by which
lakes of considerable extent disappeared, and new ones were
formed ; but these were less terrific than the catastrophe
which destroyed the city of Caraccas in 1812. On the 28th
of March, there was heard subter.-aueous thunicrinn-'s; the-
ground undulated, as if agitated by a boiling liquid, and at
one shock this fine city entombed in its ruins 13,100 of its
inhabitants. During the earthquake the great lake of Mara-
caibo had its level lowered, and 'the riven earth at Puerto
Cabello and Valencia poured forth enormous torrents of
water. It is remarkable, that the volcano of St. "Vincent,
which had been perfectly quiescent for a century, burst out
with prodigious violence on the 27th of April, in the same
year, and threw out clouds of ashes, which rose to an immense
height into the air. Much of the island was ruined by show-
eps of scoria and ashes; and such was the violence of the
eruption, that the decks of vessels 203 miles to the windward
of St. Vincent were covered with an impalpable dust. On
the day of this eruption subterranean thunderings were dis-
tinctly heard at Caraccas, and even on the Rio Apure, 210
leagues in a right line from St. Vincent. In the eruption of
Tomboro, the earthquakes extended throughout an area of a
thousand miles in diameter, a considerable tract of land at
the foot of the mountain disappeared in the waves, and the
port of Bima, where. ships of war could formerly anchor,, was
ruined by the upraising of a shoal. On the 19th of Novem-
ber„lB22, Chili was visited by a most destructive earthquake.
The shock was strongly felt at the same time throughout a
line of coast 1200 miles in extent. It is stated on good au-
thority, that the coast for 100 miles sustained an elevation of
from two to four feet ; and about a mile inland from Valpa-
raiso it was raised from six to seven feet. The sudden ele-
vation of the coast was indicated by shell-fish being found
adhering to the rocks considerably above high-water mark.
The shocks continued until the end of September in the fol-
lowing year ; and the area over which the permanent alter-
ation of level extended is believed to embrace the country
from the base of the Andes to the sea, a surface of not less
than 100,000 square miles. In 1827 Popayan and Bogota
suffered most severely from earthquakes, during which vast
tirsures opened in the elevated plains around the latter city.
The last earthquake in Europe occurred in Murcia in
Is2'9, near Alicante, Several villages in an area of above
four square miles were thrown down by vertical movements
in the valley through which the Rio Segura flows, and many
small fissures were formed in the alluvial soil; while black
mud, sand, and marine shells, were thrown up from small
cavities formed near the sea. Such are some of the severer
earthquakes on record ; but less considerable shocks are of
frequent occurrence in various countries, especially in South
America and Italy. Smart shocks arc occasionally felt in
Scotland : they have often occurred at Cowrie, in Perth-
shire. A smart, shock rent the spire of the Town Hall of
Inverness in the year 1816 ; and another earthquake was felt
at Lancaster in 1831, which shattered chimneys and alarmed
the inhabitants. But all the shocks experienced- in our
island have fortunately been insignificant compared to those
which have been felt in many other countries.

Bochsa and Mrs. Bishop are said to have given a concert

at Copenhagen.
A surgeon in Australia has been committed fcr trial on a
charge of dissecting the body of a boy while warm.
It is said, that Sir John Colborne, the late governor of the
Canadas, is to be raised to the peerage.
The customs paid in Belfast for the last half year exceed
those of the six months previous by £20,000.
The Melbourne ministry, Victoria's reign, transposed,
makes—Mel's ministry bearing ruin to thee, Vie R!
Mr. George Wingrove Cooke, author of the " History of
Party," has been appointed an assistant tithe opannissioner.
We understand there is no truth in the statement of Mr.
Justice Littledale's resignation, which appetus in a morning
paper.—Glebe

There will not be a single eclipse of either sun or moon vi-
sible in the United Kingdcm in the course cf the ensuing
year.
BILLIAILDS.—The best billiard player in the world is said
to be Edwin Kentfield, or, as he is more popularly known,
Jonathan, the Brighton marker.
The duty on foreign wheat has receded to Hs. Si. per
quarter ; this, however, must prove of short iluratio,i, owing
to the late prices.
It is stated that the government intend to intl. }..lace their
project regarding the establishment of railroads hi Ireland
soon after the assembling of parliament.

Prince George of Cambridge is to :obtain Ow Lieutenant
Colonelcy of the 12th D►:agoons, and to act as Second Colo-
nel under Colonel Stowell:—Limerick Stando-d. -
A sheep, belonging to D. Blake, Esq. cf Holway, near
Taunton, was last week discovered in the reeers of a linhay
on the farm, having been there without food
,jour• weeks and
three days ! On being found it was carefully tr..T.ltcd, but
died in a few hours.

PROPOSED LIGHT AT THE MOUTH Or TAB THAMCS.--•
It may be interesting to the shipping and cominercial inter-
ests of this country to learn that it is in the coievaiplationof
the Trinity Board to establish a fleeting light ta'ar the shoal
called the Kentish Knock, at the mouth ef the Thames.—
Kentish Gazette.
ROCHDALE MONTHLY CATTLE FAIR, MONDAY, DEC. 2.
—There has been a very good show of cattle in the market
to-day, of every description, and rather more than an avecugo
quantity of business done, at moderate prices. Drapes have
been in good demand, and many have been sod at former
prices.—Manchester Guardian,
A FAMILY NAME.—A rather singular fact eaten:' out in
the examination of a pauper named Manger, ea Tiairsday
last, as to his place of settlement. In traehie Lis predeces-
sors, it was stated that the great grandfather of tae pauper was
a foundling, having been left in a manger at CiaybroOk, near'
Lutterworth, in consequence of which he °Wined that cog-
nomen.—Kentish Gazette.
ATTEMPTED INCENDIARISM AT SHEFFIELD.—On the
night of Monday week, some persons threw co;ahustilile halls,
wrapped in lighted paper, through one of the :inilows of St.
Mary's Church, evidently to set it on fire. The villainous
design was frustrated by the paper being extinf.eaislied in the
fall. We are informed that one ball was wrapped, up in a
portion of the Northern Star, and anodic r hi a tea label.
he balls weighed about 21 ounces each. It is evident that
two persons must have been engaged in the ernie, ; one sup-
porting the other while he broke the window, end threw in
the balls. A number of lucifer matches have been found
under the church window.—Sheffield Indepen,4.-nt.
A TEXT APROPOS.—A clergyman at Windsor, on Sunday
last, preached a sermon on the intended marriage of the
Queen, meaning to be highly complimentary to hoe Majesty
and Co. Unfortunately he took his text from the gospel of
the day—" Here is a lad, who has five barley laaVes and a
few small fishes," and thereby gave royal offence, and has
been reprimanded accordingly.
LETTER CARRIERS.—We understand that the letter car-
riers of Glasgow are, with the view to the introduction of the
new penny postage, urging their claims for advance of wages.
When it is known that this busy, and; in ma;ly rz'spects, im-
portant class of men receive only lbs. perwech of seven days,
we cannot doubt that soine improvement will 'be made in
their circumstances. The recent Gases in the High Court of
Justiciary will show to what temptations they are exposed,
and what are their opportunities of defrauding and disap-
pointing the public.—Perth Paper.
RAILWAY SPEED.—As a proof of the speed of railway
travelling, and the wonderful alteration it has made as to
the time consumed in travelling, we may mention a cir-
cumstance which took place a short time ago, within the
neighbourhood of 'this town. A basket containing. six or
eight large fish, which were taken from the fish-ponds of a
gentleman about ten miles on the other side of Derby. was
sent down by the Derby and Birmingham train to the latter
town, and from thence forwarded by the Midland Counties
train, to the Bceston Station, where it was, to stop. It did
so stop for about a quarter of an hour, and was then conveyed
up to Mr. Boden's in Beeston, where it WAS opened after a
short delay. The fish were then discovered to be alive, and,
on being placed in water, recovered their usual liveliness, and
, actually survived for several weeks, until they were killed and
eaten by the family. This is an adventure that very few of
the fish species can boast.—Nottingham Mercury. [Very
likely not after being killed and eaten.]

TOWN COUNCIL PROCEEDINGS.

A meeting of the Town-council was held in the Town-ball
on Wednesday, for the transaction of busiiss. Thomas
Walmsley, Esq. the Mayor, presided.

MR. R. JONES, JUN.
The MAYOR said that the first business which would oc-
cupy the attention of the council had reference to the coun-
cillor for St. Anne's Ward, on which the Town-clerk was now
prepared to report.
The TOWN-CLERK then read the following report :
I have considered the report of Mr. Alderman Benn on
the subject of a fraud upon the franchise of the burgesses,
appearing to have been committed at the last municipal elec-
tion ; and in pursuance of the reference of the council, I
have made the strictest investigation in my power.
In pursuing the inquiry, I have taken down fully all in-
formation which came before me, but in considering the im-
portant questions referred to me, I have been guided by legal
rules of evidence, as well because 1 considered myself pro-
perly confined to that course, as because I conceived it the
best to aid me in arriving at just conclusions.
I have now to report that upon the information before me,
it appears that James Connor, a person who is not a burgess,
did, on the Ist of November last, commit the fraud of per-
sonating. John Bond, a burgess of the ward of St. Anne-
street, before the alderman and assessors of that ward, by
claiming to vote, in the name of John Bond, for Mr. Robert
Jones, jun., a candidate for that ward, and now the sitting
councillor, and by delivering to those officers a false voting
paper, made out as the voting paper of the burgess John
Bond, and by answering the questions prescribed by the 34th
section of the municipal corporations act, alleged, however,
to have been irregularly put.
And I am of opinion, that whether the questions were re-
gularly or irregularly put, James Connor-was in law guilty of
an indictable misdemeanour; on which point I laid a case be-
fore counsel, concluding with the following query :—" Whe-
ther the mere-personation and the delivery of the false voting
paper in fraud of the act, did not, of themselves, amount to
an indictable misdemeanour."
Upon this case I have obtained from Mr. Starkie, queen's
counsel, and Mr. Charles Crompton, an opinion as follows :
" We ne of opinion that Connor, under the circumstances,
was guilty of an indictable misdemeanour, in personating
Bend, and offering a false voting paper.
" Temple, 2d December, 1839."
A copy of the case and opinion is subjoined.
I have further to report, that upon the information before
me, a question has been raised whether the candidate, Mr.
Robert Jones, jun., did not contend before the alderman and
assessors for the amission of this vote, under circumstances
which showed that he at that time knew that James Connor
had committed the fraud of personating John Bond.
On this question I have taken down information from
seventeen witnesses, and I now report the following conclu-
sions, which, to the best of my judgment, I have arrived at,
viz.-
I.—That Mr. Jones was not present at the time when
James Connor tendered the voting paper or answered the
questions.
2.—That there has been no evidence before me of any oc-
currences up to that period to affect Mr. Jones.
3.—That after Connor had tendered his voting paper and
had answered the questions, Mr. Jones did, in the booth, be-
fore the alderman and assessors, contend for the admission
of the vote.
4.—That James Connor was the brother-in-law of Mr.
Jones, having married Mr. Jones's sister.
s.—But that whether Mr. Jones bad, or had riot, the
knowledge in question as to the fraud of Connor at the time
of his so contending, or at any time until Certainly after the
close of the poll, upon which knowledge the imputation
against him altogether depends, there is conflicting evidence
before me.
6.—Upon this conflicting evidence, without impugning the
veracity of any witness, pursuing the course which I have
stated, and making all just allowances proper from the nature
of the evidence, especially considering the excitement and
confusion which appears to have prevailed, I come, with sa-
tisfaction to my own mind, to the conclusion, that Mr. Jones
had no such knowledge ; consequently, that Mr. Jones, upon
my report, stands free from any imputation affecting his ho-
nour or character.

Mr. Alderman BENN said, he was extremely glad to hear
that this conclusion had been come to. His object in bring-
ing forward the subject had been twofold—namely, to have
the delinquent punished, and Mr. Jones cleared from the
imputations which had been cast upon his character out of
doors. Mr. Jones, he thought, must feel obliged to him that
he had acted as he had done, because a statement had been
made to the effect that Connor had admitted that Mr. Jones
had put into his hand the voting paper presented at the booth
by him. His (Mr. Beun's) aim had been to give to Mr.
Jones an opportunity of saying whether lie had or had not
been privy to the fraud attempted to be practised, and there-
fore be had brought the matter before the council. On a
former occasio❑ he had been asked to enter into an explana-
tion, but had declined to do so at that time, thinking that
such a course was irregular. Mr. Jones, he was happy to
say, was now altogether freed from the imputations cast on
him, and his character had sustained no injury from the cir-
cumstances of the case.
Mr. COGLAN said, I feel very great regret in being obliged
to differ from the opinion delivered by our very talented
Town-clerk. (Cries of " Oh, oh.") Mr. Mayor, I claim
your protection while I proceed ; and I must express a hope
that the scenes which occurred at the first time I bad the

honour of addressing you on this subject will not be permit-
ted to be repeated this day. I was then much interrupted,
and prevented from giving the explanations that were requir-
ed to place the matter fairly before the council. Prior to
giving my reasons for differing from the conclusion come to
by the Town-clerk, I beg to correct what sonic consider an
error on my part, in my address at the last council meeting—
namely, when I stated that Connor did not vote. I certainly
then stated that Connor did not vote, whereas it is contended
by some that he did vote. I meant to say that Connor did
not legally vote. I knew that he went through the forms and
ceremonies usual on such occasions; but from the peculiar
circumstance of the case, I feel convinced that he did not
come within the fair scope of voting—that is, he did not le-
gally vete. When the paper was presented at the polling
booth, and the name John Bond was called out by the polling
clerk, Mr. Raynor, one of the assessors, who knew Bond in-
timately, turned round and saw a person as dissimilar as could
be, and he said, " You are not Bond." The man said that
he was. Mr. Raynor said, " I know that you are not, for
Bond is in Lancaster,. I will not," he added, " allow this
vote; for I know that he issan impostor." Mr. Grocott,
with equal zeal on the other side, and anxious to secure a
vote for Mr. Jones, insisted that it was a proper vote, and to
put the matter to the test, he went through the regular forms.
" Are you," he asked the man who tendered_ the voting pa-
per, "John Bond ?" The reply was, " Yes." " Where
do you reside." "In Soho-street." " Have you voted be-
fore at this election." " No." Mr. Grocott then insisted
that the vote was a good one, and a long test ensued, during
which time Connor went away. The voting paper was folded
up, and put by itself, and was finally taken away by Mr.
Raynor, on the ground of its being an illegal vote, and the
other assessor agreed that Connor 's name should not be in-
cluded. Was I not justified then, in saying that he did not
vote legally ? According to my opinion, it could not be a
good vote without it was a legal one. Now, with regard to
one very important particular that occurred, and I am glad
the town-clerk has had counsel's opinion upon it. It appears
that the delinquent got off in consequence of Mr. Grocott
not having complied with the terms of the act of parliament.
Mr. Grocott got up and proposed the questions without being
called upon by two burgesses. There were two that would.
have called on him to do so ; but, as he stood up, they thought
it a work of supererogation to ask him to put questions that
had already been answered. Yet on this very simple fact
the magistrate considered that the proceeding was not legal-;
and he would not commit Connor to prison, because the as-
sessor had not acted according to the strict letter of the act of
parliament. The man was charged wilts a misdemeanour,
and he was gone to sea since ; he has been got out of the way.
Now, as to the conclusion of the town-clerk. The town-
clerk would not come to the conclusion on conflictive evi-
dence that Mr, Jones was eta—
The MAYOR.—I beg your pardon, Mr. Coglan. It will be
a question for the council, after the reference that has been
made and the decision that has been given whether they will
go farther or not. Seeing that Mr. Jones's character is en-
tirely freed from suspicion, I will put it to you whether it is
desirable that you should proceed further, and cause recrimi-
nation. I should not like to stop the freedom of debate or
of discussion ; but I am inclined to think that the council
will be of opinion with me that the subject had better not be
further gone into. The matter referred was divided into two
heads—namely, with respect to Connor and to Mr. Jones.
The town-clerk has decided with respect to Connor, that he
is indictable for a misdemeanour ; but, as regards Mr. Jones,
he has been freed from every imputation, and I would sub-
mit it to the council, and my friend Mr. Coglan, who, I am
sure, will rejoice in the decision, whether it is advisable to
pursue this matter further.
Mr. COGLAN.—I beg pardon for differing from to high an
authority as yourself, Mr. Mayor; and I claim the right of
proceeding to make my remarks; for whatever conclusions
the town-clerk may have arrived at, he is not infallible. To
question my right of proceeding is to limit the freedom of
debate itself. I disclaim the idea of wishing to hurt the feel-
ings, or vilify the, character of any man. I come forward on
public grounds, in consequence of its having been communi-
cated to me, by highly-respectable authorities, that Conner
presented a fraudulent voting ticket, and that Mr. Jones was
in the booth during part of the time of the investigation, and
that Mr. Jones put the question to the alderman—
The MAYOR.—Do you conclude with any motion ?
Mr. COGLAN.—I will. Mr. Jones put the question to the
alderman, er, at least, he claimed the right of having the vote
recorded. I have it from highly respectable authority that,
during part of the time of the investigation, Mr. Jones was
in the booth, and that he addressed the alderman, saying,
This is a good vote ; you have no right to refuse it, because
in the morning you allowed one of a similar character,
Young's, to be recorded." This was part of the time the
investigation was proceeding. The evidence of Mr. Hay-
dock has been a good deal dwelt on by Mr. Grocott in his
public letter. The question put by Mr. Mason to Mr. Hay-
dock was, "Was Mr. Jones present when Connor tendered
his vote ?" Mr. Haydock answered in the negative. The
magistrate put a stop to the inquiry, otherwise Mr. Haydock
was prepared to prove that Mr. Jones was present during
the latter part of the investigation. I deem it necessary
to repeat these facts, because 1 have a motion to put which
I hope will meet with the support of the council. When
Mr. Raynor protested against the vote.asaan illegal one, the
man Connor had gone through the ceremony of voting. Mr.
Raynor knew him to be a delinquent, and ordered him to be
taken into custody. The inspector on duty at the booth
went after him, and took him into custody—took him within
the line of voting in the booth. He was then on one side of
the palings, so that all persons on the opposite side could not
fail to see him. Mr. Jones was not present when the vote
was tendered, it is true ; but Mr. Jones returned during the
time that Mr. Raynor and Mr. Grocott were contending, be-
cause Mr. Haydock and Mr. Helsby are prepared to prove
that. Now, if Mr. Jones put the question to the alderman
without knowing anything about the vote, whether it was a
good one or not, he certainly acted in a way that was not
right; but Le wanted it to be received on the ground that it
was a good one. This lam prepared to prove on the testi-
mony of Mr. Haydock and Mr. Helsby. Mr. Jones stated
at the last council that he had not seen his brother-in-law
from that time till then. Now, I have it on testimony that
Connor absolutely supped with Mr. Jones on the evening of
the day of election, and Mr. Jones admitted it to the person
I can bring forward. Does not this show something of con-
nivance or of knowledge ? That this is the fact lam credi-
bly informed ; but that there may be individuals who will
state other circumstances I am ready to admit. The town-
clerk may have gone through a legal investigation of the mat-
ter ; he may have had testimony and counter-testimony ;
there may have been half a dozen persons who stated that
he was not ; and he (the town-clerk) may have come to the
conclusion that Mr. Jones was actually not present, though
the matter on that ground is not sufficient to justify him in
announcing any thing like connivance on the part of Mr.
Jones. But it is only right and just that we should investi-
gate that matter ; and I only consider it an act of justice to
him, as well as to me, that the testimony of Mr. Benn, Mr.
Haydock, and Mr. Helsby, should be read ; and let the
testimony of Mr. Jones's friends be read, and then we may
come to a conclusion, without trusting to any individual,
however respectable. This testimony is due to the public;
it is necessary that they should see it—in order that those
persons who are to blame may be held up to public odium.
I therefore feel it a duty to move that the town-clerk read
the testimony of the different witnesses, and on that being
read I shall proceed with my motion, which is, in the first
instance, that the testimony be read. I beg pardon, perhaps
the better plan would he to have a committee—a select or se-
cret committee formed—l don't know what you may de-
signate it—and that it be referred to that committee.
Having been requested to put his motion in writing, Mr.
Coglan did so. The following is a copy of it :—" That the

.1"7 1-
2:4,w
c;,4

report of the town clerk, and the evidence on which it is
founded, be referred to a committee consisting of seven
members of the council, with power to seek further evidence
and take such further steps, or such further legal advice, as
they may deem necessary to report to this council."
_ Mr. RATRIIONE seconded the motion. He said—l acknow-

ledge that I was surprised that the report of the town-clerk
should be so totally unqualified • inasmuch as it is drawn up
on conflicting evidence. To the legal report of the town-
clerk of course the council would bow • but the care of
its own honour is in the keeping of the council. This
is not a trifling question • we cannot take up too much time
about it ; and it is therefore necessary that we should know
on what grounds it is that a member of the council, with so
many accusationa against him, has been cleared of them. I
have no personal feeling whatever in the case ; it would be
beneath any man that feels his responsibiliy as a man or a
councillor, to trifle with the character of any man opposed to
him on such a question as this. But it is essential that the
purity of the council should he kept up, and on that ground it
is proper that we should he the judges, and not the town-
clerk ; and I am surprised that the town-clerk should have
adverted to it at all. I think that was not what the
town-clerk was called on to report. I have great pleasure in
seconding the motion of Mr. Coglan ; and, sir, from the
sentiments which we have have heard from gentlemen on the
other side of the house, I think that they will feel that the
honour of the council is so strongly involved in this question,
that some of them at least will vote in my favour.
Mr. BusuELL.—Before attempting any comment on the
extraordinary proceeding of this morning, I feel it my duty
to thank you, sir, for the attempt you made to save the time
and patience of the council, as well as for your attempt to
save Mr. Coglan from the extraordinary exhibition he has
made. Mr. Rathbone, during his concluding observations,
looked very hard at me, and I shall therefore reply to him.
What are the facts ? When it was proposed that this matter
should be referred to the town-clerk, who stood up and said
aught against it ? Not one. If the town-clerk's report had
been different to what it is, who would have stood up to
oppose its reception ? Not one. But the fact is, that the
town-clerk's report is of a nature that is nor agreeable to
some gentlemen on the opposite side of the house, and there-
fore they oppose it. If Mr. Coglan had come prepared with
a resolution, instead of detaining the council a quarter of an
hour in drawing it out, I should then have given him credit
for honesty in the matter. But what does he do ? Ire first
heard the report of the town-clerk read, and, finding it is in
favour of Mr. Jones, he then comes forward with his motion.
Mr. COGLAN.—I beg to say—
Mr. BUSHELL.—I will not be interrupted sir. (Hear, and
order.)
Mr. COGLAN.—It is not true what you say—(Much con-
fusion.)
Mr. BUSHELL.—Not trite ! How dare you say that, sir?
The MAYOR. Address yourselves to me, gentlemen, if
you please.
Mr. BUSUELL.—You have heard what Mr. Coglan said—
he said that what I stated was not true.

Mr. COGLAN.—I did not know* of the report of the town-
clerk.
Mr. BUSHELL.—I did not say that you had any previous
knowledge of the town-clerk's report.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.--.-The word honesty was used.
Mr. BLACKBURN.-1 think the gentleman who stands up
and charges another with dishonesty, should not be very
nice.

Mr. T. CASE.—I heard words used by the gentleman next
to me (Mr. Coglan) which I think should be removed before
we leave this room. I hive strong reasons for it, Mr. Mayor.
Mr. BUSHELL.—The word " honesty" has been quarrelled
with, I did not use the word in the sense that seems to be
put upon it ; I did not mean that Mr. Coglan had been guilty
of dishonesty. I mean that it would have been a more
straightforward and honest course if, instead of his drawing
out his resolution after he had heard the report—he had come
into the council chamber prepared with that resolution—if
he had prepared it without knowing the nature of the deci-
sion of the Town-clerk—without being aware whether it was
for or against Mr. Jones. If Mr. Coglan had entered this
room prepared to dispute the reception of the report alto-
gether, he would have shown a strong disposition to do what
was just and honest ; but I cannot say that it was commend-
able in him first to hear and then oppose the report. What
would be said to the person who consented to an arbitration,
and refused to accede to the decision after it had been given ?
(Loud cries of" No, no.") Why, if not distinctly and openly,
he tacitly submitted the case to the arbitration or decision of
the town-clerk.
Mr. Alderman SHEIL.—As to the town-clerk's decision,
it is not worth a penny, even though it were an arbitration.
Mr. BUSH ELL.—Well, I must certainly compliment the
town-clerk on the high estimation he seems to be held in.
But, as I was remarking, what would be said of those who,
having agreed to the dcision of arbitrators, afterwards op-
posed the decision when given ? I know what would be
thought of them in the mercantile world, and I should think
that the same principles of judgment ought to operate here.
lam perfectly satisfied that Mr. Jones is innocent. He
says, " I was not there." Mr. Rathbone has referred to
what I said on a former occasion—namely, that if Mr. Jones
were guilty, I should be one of the first to rise up and con-
demn him. That I repeat. I say that if the charge•against
him be proved, I, so far from standing up to support him,
would he one of the first to lift up my voice in his condeinna-
•

tion. I trust that I have now placed that matter in a proper
light. With regard to Mr. Benn, 1 have nothing to say, be-
cause I believe that he has been dragged into this matter
against his will. But what has Mr. Coglan done? Ile has
made a very rambling speech, in the midst of which he proves
that Connor attempted to vote. (Hear, hear.) Who doubts
that Connor presented his polling paper, and that he would
have recorded his vote? No one. Every body knows and
admits that. But Mr. Coglan has shied that which is the
real point of the case--that which, if true, casts opprobrium
on the character of Mr. Jones. Of that, Mr. Coglan has
scarcely said a word. lie feels himself, if I may so say, in the
position of a guilty man, and thinks that it is necessary for
him to say something ; he therefore talked by the clock, and
sat down without saying anything to the point. I shall conclude
with moving an amendment ; and if it is the wish of the council
that their views and opinions should have weight in the town,
I feel convinced that my amendment will be adopted • for
nothing could possibly be more prejudicial to the council, in
the eyes of the community at large, than to allow it to be
suspected that party spleen and venom influence its decisions
—that it had deserted honesty, uprightness, and true prin-
ciple—forsaken—
The MAYOR—Deserted honesty and true principles? I
call upon you, Mr. Bushell, to withdraw the words.
Mr. BosnELL.—I did not say that the council had de-
serted honesty and true principles. I say, let not anything
be done here which shall give rise to the accusation that
honesty and true principle have been deserted. I impute no
motives to any one. There is not one of this council, with
whom I am acquainted, that I do not in some measure re-
spect: I 'beg leave to move, us au ,uncrniment, that the
town-clerk's report be confirmed.
Mr. JOHN SMITH seconded the amendment. Every un-
biassed mind would be satisfied with the report of the town-
clerk, and that every gentleman whose judgment was not
warped by prejudice must see that Mr. Jones stood cleared
of every accusation that had been urged against him.
Mr. BLACKBURN—I intended to have proposed an amend-
ment of a very different nature to that moved by the mem-
ber of Abercromby Ward ; and should it be lost, I shall main-
tain my right of introducing another amendment. I 'think
that we never had to discuss a question of more vital impor-
tance to the character of the council. But, before I proceed
further, will you allow the resolution, referring the matter
to the town-clerk, to be read?
The Towsr- CLERK read the resolution, as follows :—" That
the case mentioned in the report be referred to the town-
clerk, with power to investigate and to report to the council."
Mr. BLACKBURN.—Yes, he had to report the result of the
investigation, and not his opinion. It never entered into my
mind that lie was to give a decision—that he was a judge.
The whole of the argument of the member for Abercromby
Ward has gone on a wrong assumption, and we should di-
vest ourselves of all right of judgment, and leave it to the
town-clerk, to be governed by his opinion, whatever that
may be.
Mr. BUSHELL.—Why not have mentioned, then, that the
evidence should be laid on the table?
Mr. BLACKBURN.—It never entered into my mind, and
never was the intention of the council, that the town-clerk
should give any opinion, but to report and give the result—
that is, of the evidence, not of his opinion on the evidence.
So far from binding ourselves to
,his decision, we never re-
quested it ; but merely that he should investigate, and report
the result of that investigation. I therefore throw out all
the arguments of the member for Abercromby Ward, (Mr.
Bushell,) because they are based on a wrong assumption ;
and his reference to arbitration is totally inapplicable. The
result does not mean, to give a report to bind us by his con-
clusions, neither was it my opinion that it would be given.
I came here this morning under the expectation that he would
lay before us the whole of the evidence, and that we should
judge. It is the business of the council to do that, and such
was the purport and intent of the resolution. I appeal to
you whether it was so or not: (" Yes, yes.") The result
is the evidence that he collects, to lay open the case in all its
bearings. No arbitration was appointed at all. I stand up
as much the friend of Mr. Jones as any one. If the town-
clerk's opinion was called out by the evidence ; if he has
dealt fairly ; if he has stated the ground for the conclusions
to which he has come, which I do not impugn, then the more
thoroughly that ground is known, the better for Mr. Jones.
If it has convinced the town-clerk, it must convince every
other candid mind. Then let Mr. Jones have the benefit of
it. I beg leave to move the following amendment :—" That
the whole of the evidence collected in relation to the persona-
tion of Mr. Bond by Mr. Connor, at the last election for
St. Anne's Ward, be printed, and a copy furnished to every
member of the council—and that the consideration of the
town clerk's report be deferred to a future meeting of the
council." That is the fair and straightforward mode of deals
ing with the question. I throw back the charges brought
against this side of the house being influenced by party spirit.
(Cries of " No, no ;" "no such charge was made.") We
desire that every man may sit here so that he can be treated
with respect—so that we can respect his character. There
is just one circumstance to which I will allude, unless, indeed,
Mr. Bushell will consent to withdraw his amendment.
Mr. BUSIIELL.—I am willing to withdraw my amendment.
Perfect justice for all parties is what I seek. lam sure that
the evidence, not only from the known ability of the town-
clerk—
Mr. Alderman SHELL.—This is quite irregular. Mr.
Bushell has already spoken.
The MAYOR.—He rose to withdraw his amendment, at
the suggestion of Mr. Blackburn.
Mr. SHEIL.—Yes ; but he enters intcert long-explanation.
Mr. BUSHELL.—I am quite as anxious as Mr. Blackburn
or any one else that the whole of the evidence should be laid
before the• council and the town. lam fully persuaded, from
the known ability of the town-clerk, that the evidence will
bear out his conclusion ; and, from what 1 have seen of it,
I am sure that the more the evidence is circulated, the better
for Mr. Jones.
Mr. CASE.—Do you mean, by this amendment, to shut
out the reception of further evidence ? (No, no.)
Mr. BLACKBURN.—I cannot in this resolution make pro-
vision for further evidence ; but it does not shut out further
evidence. If, after the evidence is received, it is not satis-
factory, and additional evidence can be obtained, let it be re-
ceived ; but, if, on the other hand, it is satisfactory, there
will be no need. lf we proceed as I have recommended, we
shall give weight and importance to our proceedings, and
prevent the recurrence of such circumstances in future. I
was going to say that the point of difficulty is this. It is ac-
knowledged that the personation took place; it is acknow-
ledged that Mr. Jones was not present in the booth when the
vote was tendered ; and it is acknowledged that Mr. Jones
afterwards was present during the discussion on the vote, and
gave an opinion in favour of the vote, contending that it
ought to be received. (" No, no ;" and " That is not ac-
knowledged.") Am I correct Mr. Town-clerk ?
The TOWN-CLERK.—Yes, you are.
At the request of Mr. Blackburn, the Town-clerk read that
part of his report referred to.
Mr. BLACXBURN.—It appears, then, that Mr. Jones was
present during the discussion. (" No ; there is nothing
about the discussion.") Well, after the tender of the vate ;
and that he contended for the admission of the vote ; and
therefore, I think, he must have known something about the
vote. Did any one mean to say that he contended for the
admission of a vote of which he knew nothing? He might
have given sonic reason why, in his opinion, it ought to have
been received, and he must have known something about it
to give that opinion. The point is, how is Mr. Jones to be
thoroughly and effectually cleared from all guilty participa-
tion in accepting that vote, when he advocated its accept-
ance ? The town-clerk is satisfied himself that he is cleared,
and I want to see the evidence, that I and others may be
satisfied. The point is one of difficulty. Mr. Jones was not
likely to come forward to advocate a vote, and yet know
nothing of its nature ; and if that is the case how can he be
free from all stain? Without attributing anything improper
to Mr. Jones, and with a desire that he may be fully .ac-
quitted—for it would be a pleasure to me to see him ac-

quitted 7I beg to move the amendment for the printing of

evidence. -
Mr. R. GLADSTONE seconded the amendment. He said

—lt appears to me that the council should adopt one of'two
courses—either accept the report of the Town-clerk, or pur-
sue the course recommended by Mr. Blackburn, that all the
circumstances should be made public, and, if investigation is
to go on, that the matter should be sifted to the very bottom.
From what has fallen from Mr. Blackburn and Mr. Coglan,
I am impressed with the idea that it is absolutely necessary
that the evidence should be printed. As to Mr. Coglan, I
quite concur with the other member fur A.bercromby ward,

in thinking that he has evaded the point in which he is most
personally interested. Mr. Coglan, as I understand, at the
last council stated that Mr. Jones was in the booth when
Connor, the person who personated Bond, was there. It is
perhaps not for me, who was not present on the occasion, to
rise and say that this was not the case ; but I think I can
take upon me to deny the fact, as I know it can be proved,
if the evidence is gone through, that that was not the case.
Again, Mr. Coglan has to-day stated that Connor, with
whom, as the council knows, Mr. Jones was not in intimacy,
supped with Mr. Jones on the day of the election. Is this
true or is it not ? These are points which speak for them-
selves. They are facts which, if true, must have come under
the cognizance of other people, and it must, therefore, be
well known whether they are true or untrue. How stands
the fact on this particular point ? After the election was
over, Mr. Jones, as I dare say other candidates have done,
and as I myself have done, after the excitement and toil of a
contest, felt a good deal fatigued, and thought that he should
be more quiet at his father's house than if he went home.
He therefore proceeded to his father's house about five
o'clock, and did not return to his own home until ten at

night. 'ln the meantime, Connor—and I am sure, when you
recollect that Mr. Jones was not in intimacy with him, you
will think very little of the circumstance—went to the house
of Mr. Robert Jones. His wife was unwell, and in bed, and
Connor did get supper in the house, but without Mr. Jones's
knowledge or consent, nor was he aware of the circumstance
till the next morning. Some may say that this is all very
well as an individual statement ; but it is an occurrence which
can be proved, and satisfactorily proved ; but it will, of
course, take time to probe this and other things to the bot-
tom, and, moreover, it will take time to consider upon them
afterwards. Ido therefore hope that the proposal to publish
the evidence will be agreed to by the council. At the same
time, I candidly tell you that it occurs to me that such a
course is scarcely a safe one. My own opinion is, from all
that I am able to ascertain out of doors, that there is some-

thing like a libel on the character of Mr. Jones in the pro-
ceedings that have already taken place. Whether lam cor-
rect or not, I leave to the decision of others better informed
than myself. This certainly does to me seem an obstacle ;
but, at the same time, I am so anxious to probe the matter
to the bottom, that I second with great pleasure the amend-
ment just made.
Mr. IsAae HOLMES—I shall not occupy the time of the
council long ; but some of the remarks made by Mr. Coglan
relative to Mr. Jones should not, I consider, go before the
public uncontradicted. Mr. Coglan said that Mr. Jones
went into the booth, and contended that the vote was a good
one, and ought to be accepted. I belieVe the fact is, that
Mr. Coglan left the booth about twenty minutes to four ; he
himself was not a witness ofthe transaction. Mr. Jones was
absent, I believe, from twenty minutes past threw until five
minutes to four, when he returned to the booth. At that
time he brought in his own voting paper. There was a crowd
in Christian-street at the time, and, as any one else would
have done, he asked what was the matter. The evidence of
Mr. Davies was, " Mr. Jones, when he came into the booth,
asked what was the cause of ie dispute ; and he said, if they
were sending a man to bridewell for personating a voter,"
what did they intend to do-with the person named Young.
I believe that evidence will be produced to prove that Mr.
Jones had no knowledge whatever that Connor had been
personating a voter at that time, and that he made inquiries,
as auy other person would have done, merely for informa-
tion. I believe there has been a degree of animus in this
matter that lam sorry to see manifested. Mr. Berm has
come forward in a noble manner and exonerated Mr. Jones.
What was the charge sought to be substantiated? That Mr.
Jones had concocted a plan with a relative of his own, for
the purpose of obtaining a vote, and therefore that he was
guilty of what might be termed subornation of fraud; that be
dressed up the man for the occasion, and that he was in the
booth ready to countenance and support the fraud. Now, it
can be proved that the very clothes worn by Connor on that
day had been worn by him for two months previous. That
can be proved by the Rev. Mr. Picton, a gentleman whose
character stands as high as that of any man in this council.
Since names have been mentioned, 1 will read you the names
of a number of persons who eau establish the case for Mr.
Jones. [Mr. H. read the names of about twenty persons,
and said that he could add ten or twenty more to the list.]
hope that if the committee be appointed, that it will consist
of three persons nominated by Mr. Coglan and three by Mr.
Jones, and that'the.mayor be the chairman.
Mr. Alderman SHEIL contended that the statements in the

town-clerk's report did not authorise the conclusion to which
he had corns, and thought it would have been better if he had
confined himself simply to the legal view cf the case. He
ridiculed the idea of Connor going to the house of Mr. Jones
to sup, if it were true, as was stated, there was no intimacy
whatever between them. " God," said he, " I would like to
see the man that would go into my house, and take his sup-
per under such circumstances. In the next morning he would
find himself in a place where he would have an opportunity
of calmly investigating his proceedings of the previous day.
He was a little surprised, and disappointed, and chagrined to
see the way in .which the individuals who moved and seconded
the adoption of the report introduced the matter; they at-
tempted to carry it by a coup de main. Now, he could tell
them, and all the members who had recently come into that
chamber, that they knew little of the mettle of the council,
if they thought they could carry things in that way. The
council was not so destitute of courage. It had courage to
meet the _town upon the question, and he cautioned members
not again to use words that rankled on the mind. He sup-
ported Mr. Blackburn's view of the case, and he thought that
the gentleman who had supported Mr. Jones's case would
have done much better if they had left it alone.
Mr. HODGSON thought that on this subject the council had
been called upon to take an unusual course. The strong party
in the council, after having deliberately referred the matter
to the town-clerk, and to their own town-clerk too—(ironi-
cal cries of " Hear, hear" from the radical councillors)—
thought proper to reject his report when tendered. He sat
as member for many bodies, but he never yet heard of a pro-
ceeding similar to that proposed to be adopted. He had lit-
tle or no intimacy with iMr. Jones, and did not pretend to
have any very overwhelming interest in him ; but he did not
like to.see such a spirit as was then manifested—it mortified
him. With respect to Connor, he was a man who had mar-
ried into the family of Mr. Jones by running away with his
sister. On the day of the election, Mrs. Jones was confined
to bed and the wife of Connor was then in the house, acting
in the capacity of a servant, as she sometimes did—she was
attending upon Mrs. Jones. At night, Connor went to the
house, and supped there with his wife. That was the explana-
tion of the circumstance alluded to by Mr. Coglan. To de-
scend' to the notice of such occurrences, looked to him like
a sort of special pleading. He would advise those who were
so sedulous in hunting out these minute particulars, and so
ingenious in twisting even the smallest occurrence into a cor-
roboration of the great and grave charge brought against Mr.
Jones, to come into court with clean hands. (Hear.) Who
had not heard of the meetings at the Angel, and of the decisions
there come to for the purpose of over-ruling the council ?
(Hear, hear.) I say, (continued Mr. Hodgson) they have
converted everything into a close borough ; their study has
been to put no one upon the committee who did not suit their
purposes ; they have elevated to the aldermanic seats the
rejected. (Cheers.) Their arts have been—what? (Hear,
hear.) Instead of preserving the independence and honour
of the civic chair, in which you sir are now placed, they hate
converted that chair—into what? (Hear.) They have made
it into a close stool ! (Hear, and laughter, succeeded by
cries of " Order.")
Mr. JORDAN.—I am surprised that such filthy language
should be used in this council by any gentleman. (Uproar.)
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Oh ; the more he says, the more
it stinks. (Renewed uproar.)
Mr. HODGSPN.—I repeat that it is corrupt of us—that
corruption has increased upon us, and that it stinks in the
nostrils. (Great confusion.)
Mr. RATHBONE.—I protest against this ' • but Mr. Hodg-
son thinks if correct to use the language of Mr. Roby, be-
cause he has not wit enough to invent his own. (Continued
uproar.)
Mr. HODGSON.—If it is offensive it is not my fault. I
have taken it from the mouth of one of your own aldermen.
Mr. CASE.—Why did you not call him to order, then, as
I now call you ?
Tne MAYOR.—I am very sorry to be obliged to call any
one to order, as ',wish the freedom of debate to be stretched
to the greatest possible extent. But I conceive that Mr.
*Hodgson has used language most indecorous and unfit to be
addressed to this chair, and I hope that he will retract those
expressions.
Mr. HODGSON.—WiII you be pleased to name the words,
Mr. Mayor, to which you object ?
The MAYOR.—I have been told that it is almost disgrace-
ful to sit in this chair—(No, no)—and I think that Mr.
Hodgson, on due reflection, will regret deeply the language
he has used. I permitted him to proceed without interrup-
tion as long as I could, and even when he became, as I
thought, personal towards myself, I felt a desire to let it pass.
But since the council have taken up the words, I call upon
hint to retract, I must beg that he will do so.
Mr. HODGSON. Retract what particular words ? and
what is the meaning put upon those words?
The MAYOR.—You have said that this chair has been con-
verted into a close stool. Does any gentleman here conceive
that that is a proper expression to be used in this council
chamber? (Iso, no.)
Mr. HonosoN.—Honi soil qui mal y pence. (Hear, hear,
much confusion, and a cry of " What is that ?" " Evil to
him that evil thinks."
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Pronounce it es we can under-
stand it.
The MAYOR.—I must have a disclaimer of anything per-
sonal.
Mr. HODGSON.—I disclaim the use that has been made of
the close stool.
Mr. BLACKBURN.—It is useless to trouble him any fur-
ther. It is merely a miserable pun.
The MAYOR.—Then am Ito understand that you retract
the words? If not, what do you mean?
Mr. HODGSON.—I mean that, par excellence. the borough
has been made a close borough, and that your chair hai been
made a close stool.
The MAYOR.--I put it to the council-whether Mr. Hodg-
son shall be allowed to proceed until lie has made the amende
honorable.
Mr. YATES.—! heard him say that lie withdrew the parti-
cular expressions.
Mr; JORDAN.—My humble opionion is, that what has been
uttered is disgraceful to this room, and as I had the honour
of proposing you, Mr. Mayor, without concert with any gen-
tleman in this room, I say what he has asserted is a gross
falsehood.
The MAYOR.—I must request you, M r. Jordan, to with-
draw that word ?
Mr. JORDAN apologised,
The MAYOR again called upon Mr. Hodgson.
Mr. R. GLADSTONE.—Entertaining the same opinions as
Mr. Hodgson upon most subjects, as a friend I would recom-
mend him to 'withdraw the expressions. Su& words are to-
tally unnecessary for an argument. If our argvments are to
he propped up by such words, I,say at once, let them fall.
Mr. Hodgson knows, as well as I do, that they were words
which would not be allowed to be used by any of us in our
own families ; they are not words which one gentleman ought
to use to another. But I confess that some allowance ought
to be made for gentlemen feeling, as we do, warmly, and
some excuse might be urged from the nature of the dikcus-
sion. I would beg to ask Mr. Hodgson to have recourse to
some other words. The dictionary is large enough.
The MAYOR.—Mr. Hodgson will bear in mind that he
questioned the honour and integrity of the chair. He owes
is to himself and to the council, as a gentleman, and to me,
unless he can show that, on any occasion, I have acted im-
properly, or with a political prejudice, since I have taken this
chair, to withdraw the words.
Mr. HODGSON.—I most willingly adopt the suggestions of
my friends, and am ready to make an apology for the words,
received as they have been by the council. A construction
has been put upon them which I never intended they should
bear. I meant nothing personal to you, sir, far from it ; for
I have seen nothing in your conduct, since you occupied that
chair, which I cannot commend. There have been gentlemen
sitting there for whom I did not entertain the same feeling.
I meant, in what I said—and so far as that goes I cannot
withdraw my words—to show my sense of the conduct of
professed liberals. There have been many things d.,ne at the
Angel, which, as emanating from men who professed general
liberty, and who were in favour of all things being left open
to free and frank discussion, I hold to be utterly abominable,
especially on the part of men who have got into power from
a declaration of their abhorrence of such practices. (Cries

of " Question, question.") I maintain that this does bear
intimately on the question. I conceive, and wish to declare
to you, that the spirit which governs at the Angel—the fallen
Angel, as I may call it—is precisely, or, at least, a material
part of, the animus that governs here. In my opinion, it is
really altogether unworthy of this council to carry the matter
in dispute further. If the evidence is to be printed, let it
be; I care nothing about that, because I believe it will bear
out the conclusio❑ to which the
.Town-clerk has arrived.

•
But this proceeding is merely an attempt to persecute, and
not to elicit truth or. do justice.
The TOWN-CLERK.—It does not become me to answer any
of the argginents that have been addressed to the council on
the subject of the report ; I fear that is beyond my province ;
but I conceive it right that I should explain, in as few words
as possible, why it is that I conceived my authority in this
matter to extend to the full amount, as exercised by me. In
the first place, there was a reference to me, and I appre-
hended that it was in the nature of a reference in parliament
to a committee. If the council pleased to make me their
committee, it rested with them to do so. I never saw a re-
port in the House of Commons whicn, along with the evi-
dence, did not include the opinion of the committee as to the
evidence—in other words, the results to which they had ar-
rived after their examination. But my explanation does not
rest merely on that. As a private man, lam aware, it would
have been quite absurd in me to have annexed an opinion to
my report of the evidence taken by me, not on oath, and
without cross-examination, but constituting, in fact, no more
than those proofs appended to the brief of a solicitor. For
me to have reported that evidence, whether in the shape of a
question or answer, or in a statement of the various fact§
proved, would have been to have deprived it of very much of
its effect. In fact, it would haNc been to publish a libel.
The reference was made to me on the report of the alderman
with respect to the conduct of the personator, and contem-
poranous with it was the issue joined on the conduct of Mr.
Jones, which had not made any part of the alderman's re-
port, but which is a fact that goes along with the reference.
Independent of that I could scarcely sit down to take evi-
deuce but there arose testimony on the point whether Mr.
Jones was a party concerned, and according to the reference,
I was bound to inquire whether he was guilty or not. Hav-
ing, therefore, been obliged to proceed in this inquiry, hav-
ing examined seventeen witnesses upon it, was I to. stop
short, and leave" Mr. Jones to submit to all the imputations
which were the subject of conversation in the town-,-was
I to meddle with .the question whether he was guilty or
pot, without reporting whether in my opinion he was guilty
or not? If I could not have adopted the course I -did in
finding that report—and my confidence in the propriety of
it has not been at all shaken by what I have heard to-
day—as a man of honour, not as town-clerk of one party
,or another, but as the town-clerk of Liverpool by the .ap-
pointment of this council—l should have thought it my duty
to say that I would net proceed one step farther. It has been
said that it was my duty to inquire, without the authority of
coming to a decision ; but if that had been the case, the de-
fence of Mr. Jones should not have been prejudiced, whether
the question NV's to be discussed in or out of the council. I
must have come, to the determination to report as I have
done, or I could not have gone on with an inquiry involving
character. I was notoriously examining witnesses from day
to day, under the idea that 1 shotild have,to acquit, if in my
conscience the accused party was entitled to acquittal. You
could have nothing from me but that finding ; you could not
have merely the evidence. With regard to the proceedings,
proposed, I very much doubt whether this evidence—here
sealed up, to be disposed of at the pleasure of the council--
could be published, inasmuch as it is not necessary, without
committing a libel. And for this reason : this is not final ;
it is at most like the evidence of a coroner, who has power to
exclude the press because his examination is not final. I
cannot be an officer like a coroner; I am more like a private
solicitor ; and what should you think of the solicitor who ad-
vised the publication of, or himself determined to publish,
the brief of his client? If an actual necessity be shown for
the printing of the evidence, it might perhaps be done to the
extent requisite for the supply of the council; but the neces-
sity must be shown, or you must take the consequences. I
must really confess that I was never more uncomfortable in
the council than at the present time. I think, however, that
I can afford to be wrong on this point, for it will be the first
time, I think, that the council ever found me wrong. I

should advise, further, that the evidence be not printed on
another ground. The course of the courts of justice, (and
their rules ought to have some respect paid to them,) is never
to publish evidence till the whole is taken, because the
temptation held out to contradict that which was taken and
printed, by improper persons, who would not speak the
truth, is very great. I would advisej you to pause before you
print this evidence, or, if you determine upon referring the
matter to a committee, that they be instructed to complete
the case before you print the evidence already taken. If
such a reference were made to me again, I assure you that I
should adopt one of two courses, either to inquire into the
facts, with a determination to do as I have done on this pc-
casion, deciding in favour of the party if I honestly could, or
come to the council and beg of them to relieve me of an in-
quiry which, as an honour:Ale man, I could not undertake.
Mr. COOPER regretted that Mr. Bushell had withdrawn

his amendment, and he should say that whether the amend-
ment of Mr. Blackburn was carried or not, he should reserve
to himself the right of moving that the report of the Town-
clerk be confirmed.
Mr. SANDS.—And I shall be most happy to second it.
Mr. BOLTON said, that as the Town-clerk saw great diffi-

culties in the printing of the evidence, he should prefer the
original motion of Mr. Coglan. He thought that the ends of
the inquiry would be best answered by that mode. The town-
clerk had said that Mr. Jones had contended for the taking
of a fraudulent vote, and yet, at the end, he acquitted him
of any imputation. Now, the person who attempted to get
such a vote registered could not be free from all imputation.
He thought that they were not bound to receive the conclu-
sions of the Town-clerk. Everything that was referred was
afterwards a 'Latter of discussion in the council, as to whether
it should be confirmed or rejected, just as they thought pro-
per. Then the town-clerk's expressions of contending for
the vote of Connor, and acquitting Mr. Jones, did not
accord.
The TOWN-CLERK observed that the very essence of the
offence charged upon Mr. Jones had reference to the name
of Connor. Now, the talk in the booth was of a nameless
man who had. endeavoured to personate a voter. If any
name was used at all, it would be that of Bond, and not of
Connor.
Mr. CURIIIE defended the line of conduct pursued by the
town-clerk, who, he thought, had not exceeded his duty ; but
he was, nevertheless, of opinion that the best mode was to
refer the matter to a committee.
Mr. BLACKBURN said that he would withdraw his amend-
ment, if Mr. Gladstone would consent, and let Mr. Coglan's
`motion go to the vote. With regard to the printing of the
evidence being a libel, what had they to fear? The only per-
son that could bring an action was the councillor for St.
Anne's Ward ; and would he place hirncoif in ouch a ridicu-
lous position as to say that he had cushioned the evidence by
a threat like that. He must wish the thing to be investi-
gated as well as any other man.
Mr. R. GLADSTONE consented to the withdrawal of the
amendment. He complimented the mayor on his impartiality
since he had-presided over the council ; and after expressing
a hope that Mr Hodgson had satisfactorily withdrawn his of-
fensive expressions, Mr. G. called the attention of the mayor
to some expressions used by another member, which he hoped
would be withdrawn.
The MAYOR.—Do you mean Mr. Jordan?
Mr. GLADSTONE.—NO ; I allude to Mr. Alderman Earle.
Mr. Alderman EARLS.—Oh, dear, yes, I remember. It
was mere flash in the pan. There never was anything more
absurd than to make 'of consequence anything I have said.
(Great laughter.) It was a very dirty, thing, I recollect, that
Mr. Hodgson said, and I remarked that the more it was stirred
the more it stunk. It is a great pity that Mr. Hodgson did
not stop with the cookers, where they, are silent, rather than
get up here to blackguard the council.
Mr. BusliELe.—l hope, sir, that you will call upon Mr.
Coglan, too, to withdraw his expression, which he must do
before he leaves this room, or take the consequences. He
said that I. was speaking an untruth.
Mr: COGLAN.—I was surprised that he should state that if
I had not known what the report would be; I should not have
been prepared with the proposal which I made. ( " He said
nothing of the sort.") Well, it was under that impression
that I said it was untrue. If he did no say so, I withdraw
the words.'
The MAYOR.—Mr. Bushel said just the reverse to what
you imagined, and of course you withdraw.
Mr. I:OGLAN.—Yes.
Mr. Jos:Es then rose to speak, but was dissuaded from so
doing by his friends—a determination which met with the
approval of several members on the liberal side, but which
Ma. Evans characterised as most extraordinary.
Mr. G. H. LAWRENCE then asked whether Connor was
to be prosecuted.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Perhaps, George, you can tell
uso
wherei goEne-2I can tell you, sir. He has gone to the
NnGD heA p hassTN
coast of Africa,
Mr. EARIA—Then he is fairly transported.
Mr. COOPER having, as he Lad intimated, moved an
amendment, to the effect that the report of the Town-clerk
be confirmed, the vote was now taken on that amendment.
It was negatived by a majority of 33 to 18. The following
is a list of the voting :
For the amendment.—Councillors—D. Hodgson, Isaac
Holmes, W. Preston, Hr. R. Sandbach, G. Wright, J. Bar-
ton, T. Sands, J. Mellor, J. Cooper; T. Robinson, J. N.
Wood, R. Gladstone, C. Bushell, It. Rigby, G. H. Law-
rence, J. Smith. Alderman—C. H. Jones, and the Mayor.
Against the amendment.—,Courieillors—J. Holmes, W.
Thornhill, T. Case, H. Holmes, E. Pilcher, -T. Bolton, J.
Prietley, J. Woolright, R. Bright, W. Rathbone, H.Horry,
R. V. Yates, I'. Blackburn, E. Segar, T. Coglan, R. Jones,
Jun. J. Platt, W. M`Kee, F. Jordan, W. M. Duncan, W.
W. Currie, D. Mather. Aldermen—R. Sheil, T. Booth, R.
Roskell, R. Benn, W. Earle, J. Moon, E. Evans, T. B.
Barclay, T. Holt, W. P. Freme, E. Harvey.
Absent. Councillors G. Quayle, R. Houghton, B.
Frankland, J. Lawrence, W. Lassell, T. Harvey, J. Carson,
T. Morecroft, J. S. Leigh. Aldermen—T. Leathom, G.
Holt, T. Bullev.
The original motion was then carried by a majority of 32
to 18, having first, at the suggestion of the town-clerk, been
altered to the following shape :—" That the report of the
town-clerk, and the evidence upon which it is founded, be
referred to a committee consisting of seven members of the
council, with power to hear parties, and to take further
evi-
dence, subject to cross-examination by parties, and to take
such further steps, or such further legal advice, as they may
deem necessary."
It was understood- that the examination would be open to
every member of the council, though none but the committee
and parties implicated were to interfere in the proceedings.
After much altercation, and the refusal of several persons
proposed to act in the COmMittee, the seven following persons
were at last selected :—Mr. E. Evans, Mr. T. Booth, Mr.
J. N. Wood, Mr. C. Bushell, Tilr. T. Bolton, Mr. R.
Gladstone, and Mr. Mellor.
The proceedings of the several committees were then read
by the deputy town-clerk, and confirmed. it appeared that
the Finance Committee declined to allow the use of the Town-
hall to the Odd Fellows, on the ground that their institution
was not strictly a charitable one.
• A short discussion took place on the proceedings of the
Education Committee, but it was ultimately agreed that fur-
ther debate should he taken at a future meeting.
The MAYOR said he had received a letter from the Rev.
Hugh M`Neile, and the petition of the Protestant Operatives
on the subject of the corporation schools, agreed to at the
Music-hall on the 16th Oct. last, and signed by 2056 persons.
The Mayor read the letter, and the Town-clerk the memorial.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—Let the look at that precious
document.
The TOWN-CLERK immediately handed it to the alderman,
who forthwith commenced a scrutiny into the style of the
signatures.
Mr. BLACKBURN moved that the petition be laid upon the
table.
Mr. JORDAN seconded the motion.
Mr. JOHN SMITH moved an amendment, to the effect that
the petition be referred to the Education Committee.
Mr. COOPER seconded it.
Mr. BOLTON observed, that, by the petition being laid upon
the table, it would be competent for any member to intro-
duce it at a future meeting.
Mr. BUSHELL thought that as the subject would be fully
debated at another time the present discussion was unneces-
sary.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—There is a wonderful similarty in
the writing. Some of the parties had better go to the cor-
poration schools to learn better.
Mr. Honosos.-1 think if the worthy alderman cannot
find cut anything worse than that they do not write to his
satisfaction, they will set a mark upon him he will not easily
forget ; and, for my own part, I am thankful to see so large
and respectable a body have come forward to express their
sentiments. I agree with Mr. Bushell that it is tco late to
take the discussion now.
Mr. Alderman EARLE.—I want to bear distinctly what

the worthy representative for Everton ward says. What
mark is it that he says I am to be made ?
Mr. HODGSON.—A mirk of their disapprobation of the
present system of eduCation.
Mr.. Alderman EAnLE.—I thought you said they would
make some mark of me ?
Mr. HonGsO,•sr..—l never dreamed of setting you up as a
mark. - -
Mr. Alderman EAnLE.—Yes, sir ; but I am not to be shot
at by such a fellow as you. (Cries of " Order." There's
the rubbish . (throwing the petition down.) It is a pity such
a precious document should be lost.
The question was then put, and the amendment lost by a
majority of one, the numbers being—for it, 16—against, 17.
Several memorials were presented, and referred to the Fi-
nance Committee. The following communication from Mr.
C. Okill was amongst the number :
. Thum-hall, 3rd December, 1839.
GEl4.rtiatkx,---I beg, with all deference; to submit for your
favourable consideration the following statement, in support
of salary, and I trust that the grounds whereon I venture to
urge my claims will be deemed a sufficient apology for the
same.
Personal solicitation has always appeared to me to be ob-
jectionable, and I adopt, therefore, the present method of
bringing my case under notice ; more especially because many
of the council may probably be unacquainted wtth my em-
ployment under the late council.
So long ago as August, 1815, was appointed to audit the
then treasurer's accounts, which had not at that time under-
gone any examination from the date of his appointment in
1789. My task was one of peculiar difficulty, and was
finally completed in December, 1817, when a full and general
report was laid before the council.
In the course of my examination,, I became convinced of
the necessity of a minute investigation of the extensive
landed estate of the corporation, and was led to recommend
the same. To this latter duty I was appointed in 1818, and
having, in the meantime digested a systematic method of
survey, (where there had been no syStem before,) I was ena-
bled to submit the results in my map of the corporation
estate, and its auxiliary books of reference and registers.
This was the work of close application for several years.
In 1824, 1 had the honour of being appointed to my pre-
sent office, and have continued to the present day the sys-
tematic plan above-named, the beneficial effects of which
have been, I' humbly conceive, generally acknowledged ;
especially. in the discovery of property under lease which had
fallen into possession, or was on the years of which there
was no record whatever.

Whilst engaged in the above duty it was necessary to refer
perpetually to the deeds, muniments, papers, books, &c., in
the repository, which .1 found in great disorder ; but all of
which I carefully arranged in their present systematic order.
The knowledge thus necessarily obtained of the corporation
estate, gave me the opportunity of being of essential service
on a most important occasion. I allude to the question cf the
towu dues. Having traced out the title from 13 Henry 111.,
1229, down to the royal grant of Charles 11., and from thence
downwards to the corporation, I submitted, with all defer-
ence to the late Town-clerk; William Statham, Esq., my
humble opinion, that this was the ground of defence, on
which the corporation could successfully resist the attack
made on the town dues, instead of resting their title on pre-
scription, as was intended by Mr. Statham, according to the
impressions prevailing in his mind, handed down to him
feom his predecessors. lam proud to say, that with the ap
proval of counsel engaged on behalf of the corporation, my
recommandation was adopted. The members of the council
are aware of the success which attended my course. For
my services on this occasion, during several years, in which
my health suffered materially from the necessary sedentary
nature of my laborious employment day and night, I was,
undoubtedly, remunerated by the late council, but I re-
spectfully submit that I did not then consider, nor leave 1
ever since done so, that I was adequately recompensed, con-
sidering the immense importance of the property at issue, the
success attending the line pointed out by me, and the sacri-
fice of my health.
In addition to the grounds I have thus stated, I would beg
to refer to the great increase of of committee business since
1836, when the present council came into being. .In the
twelve years preceding, the copying into the committee
books occupies about 3150 pages, in the last four years, to
upwards of 3000 ; an increase in the ratio of nearly three to
one. _ _

I will no presume to detain the attention of the • council
further, but beg to add, that should it be their pleasure to
think my application deserving of consideration, 1 shall be at
any moment ready to afford any explanation they may re-
quire, and submit such proofs to support my present state-
ment as I cannot doubt will bear me out in all I have re-
presented.
With great respect, I have the honour to be,
Gentlemen,
Your obliged and faithful servant, ,
CHARLES OKILL.

The Worshipful the Mayor,
And the Town-council.
In reply to a question from Mr. Sandbach, it was stated
that the salary of Mr. Okill was £7OO.
The Council, not having finished the business on the no-
tice list, adjourned, at half-past three o'clock, to Wednesday
next.

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