Star.
London, England, 1819-11-24 00:00:00

which had been put to him, respecting C.:: Man-
chester Magistrates, he trusted it would be recol-
lected that this task 'was not voluntar:ly unier-
taken, but that it had been forced upon him. The
I:ib,rht Hon. Gentleman had asked, what could a
crowd of men, women, and children do, when their
leader had been taken without resistance'
.To this he
would say (so far as he was informed); this was a per-
fectly false view of the que:Aion. It was never in the
contemplation of the Magistrates to disperse that Meet-
ing as it was dispersed, more than it was in t!leir con-
templation, on the preceding day, to disperse it at all.
The No.ale Lord then alluded to the caption of Harrison, and
remarked upon the manner in which the Magistrate, under
whose warrant that arrest had been effected, was eliminated by
party malevolence. lie expressed a hope that the Magistrates
would be always found as feitOfelly and intrepidly at their post
as on the occasions he had mentionede undismayed by any exist-
' bition of popular force, or the most compact assemblages eif
sediceati. Harrison 'aid fled lions Mauchester, and the Magis-
trate who had ordered his arrest in the midst of a crowd of his I
adherents, only shewed that the lawn were, under no circum-
etances, to be violated with impunity. It had been asked, if the
Meetiag Was to be dispersed by a military force, why the ser-
vices of Yeomanry had been preferred for that purpose? It was
strange that the Bight lion. Gentleman (Mr. Tierney) should,
on this occasion, object to the employment of a force so consti-
tutionaL That Gentleman had, on other occasions, always main-
tained that the liberties of the subject were best entrusted fettle
protection of hissMajesty'er liege subjects, and that the employ-
ment of the King's lreops in aid of the Civil Power, was a sure
indication of the approach of a military despotism; but that Right
Hon. Gentleman, said the Noble Lord, is infatuated with the true
spirit of opposition, and blows hot and cold with more vigour
than consistency. The fact was, that the Magistrates had no-
thing whatever to do with the military arrangements, they were
under the direction el Colonel L'Estrange. Witlt respect to
the violence which afterwards occurred, it was to be observed,,
'that the Magistrates had no idea of dispersing the Meeting by j
the active exertions of the. Cavalry. Although the Netting had
shewed itself to be of a traitorous character, yet every precaution
was taken, in respect. to its dispersion, which the law required.
That dispersion was not attempted until the Riot Act had been
read from the window of the room where the Magistrates were.
A Magistrate bad been, likewise, sent into the crowd with the
Riot Act, for the purpose of reading it there, but was trampled
on by the mob. .a third Magistrate had been sent to the hust-
ings with the Riot Act in his hand, that no man in the crowd
might be ignorant of he contents : but he was not allowed to
read it. If no further precautions were taken, it was not to be
too charitable towards the Magistrates to believe that more
was not in their power. 'The mit-um:nate events that followed
were occasioned, not by the cruelty of the Magistrates, but by
the circumstance of the troops, at• the moment of the capture,
being violently attacked by an armed mob—(Hear, hear, hear,
and some murmurs). lie could, of course, only pleage hunselt
that that wheat he had stated was his own haul. From the
evidence given before the Coroner's Inquest, it was dear that
the transactions in question did not occupy more time than five
minutes, and that in a quarter of an hour, from the time Hunt
made Isis appearance, the whole business was terminated,'
and the Meeting completely dispersed—(blear, hear, hear).—
He had called the multitude an arme4 mob. Ile was justified
in doing so. 'They came armed wits stones and other missiles,
and various weapons. The day before the Meeting took place,
every stone was picked up on the place of meeting that could
harm the human form, and on the day which followed the 16th,
two cart-loads of stones were found on St. Peter's-field. Ile
had further to state, that several persons had stationed them-
selves in some houses adjacent, who were aimed with pistols, and
these pet sorts fired from the windows on the troops before the
charge was made. When they heard so much of the cruelty of
the troops, these things ought to be borne in mind. They
served to skew that they had sufficient provocation to make them
cruel; but the steternents which had been sent forth againstli
them were gross exaggerations of what had taken place, or were
wholly u..iounded. Whatever might be thought of their con-
duct, and he was concerned to see some persons, for whom he
had the highest respect, suffering their feelings to cutatrip their
judgment, and reiterating charges against the Military, which
embodied almost every imaginable outrage, he firmly believed
that they had done nothing but what they would be able
to justify in the face of their courory—(llrar, hear, hear).—
The Noble Lord made many other observations in justification
of the interference of the military, and the proceedings of the
Magistrates in the case of Mr. Hunt, and said it was not the
Magistracies who were afraid to look the laws in the face, but
the innocent, unollimding, and most caltunnieted •Radicals--
these were the men who had delayed justice by traversing the
indictments, thereby spewing that they were not prepared to
prove that innocence of which they had so loudly boasted. The
party who were so anxious for a Parliamentary inquiry, had
not availed themselves of all the means of legal redress which
lay open to them. It was true that bills had been preferred to
the brand Jury of Lancaster, against 'bur or five of the Yeomanry
alleged to have cut and maimed certain persons on the day alluded
to. But it was remarkable, that not a ;baste indictment bad been
preferred against either Officers or Magistrates, which would
have been the natural course, if the merits of the legal question
were to be tried. In 1768, more lives had been lost in the riot
before the King's Bench Prison than at Manchester, and on that
occasion the Officer was tried and acquitted. The Courts were
at present open, and willing to give toe proper redress. But k
had been.said, hew were such indigent people as the eullerers at
Manchester to obtain satisfaction at law? But their indigence
could be no arguatelit in the present case, for if they were able
to indict five of the Yeomanry, they were as capable of indict-
ing five or the Magistrates. The fact was, however, that the
char ees against the Magistrates were not meant to answer the
ends of Justice, but for the purpose of in!lammatiun and deceit.
dm. The Noble Lord then observed, that even the plea of
indigence was removed.by the curious list of subscriptions, and
the reasons annexed tothem ; if the bum so contributed had been
properly applied, it mast have been more than sufficient for civil
proceedings, and would suffice to sift the business to the bottom.
It was erroneous to say that Alinisters had prejudged tb_ ques-
tion, because they had expressed their approbetion of the con-
duct of the Magistrates. The Noble lord rested this past of the
case upon the relation which exists, and must necessarily be sup-
poi ted, between the highest end the inferior Constituted Autho-
rities, and had nothing to do with procesdlegs In Courts of Law.
Ile also adduced the precedents of the riots at Ely, and at Mee-
,chester on a former oectoion, to slim that it was not a novel
act of Government; and maintained that Ministers had received
the most accurate intelligence which could be obtained before
they publicly expressed their opinion. 'They had the report of
Colouel L'Estrange, of a Su goon who attended on the spot, an.:
also of a Magistrate and Co: stable, deputed by the Beech.of
Magistrates to give an accoaet et' the transaction. The step was
net taken even under those ceounistances without advisieg with
the Law Officers of the Crown ; and he added, that from what bad transpired,lf he (Lord Castlereagh) had to express ,
Mon again, he would do it at least as strongly as before. The'
Noble Lord next adverted to the subject of Earl Phew:them.' dis-
missal, and spoke in a complimentary manner of his character.
He also expressed himself widen to believe that his conduct was
bGeecinv Government
el
eds hnbotycuetldtabrpeyuebtnolai
cbulaeecpdt:tioovfeplunl:aria e
dictated by the most conscientous motive; but contended that.
ad a
tsLi eute confidencena
nwt
sh,
which
cha
Fitzwilliem, and therefore it
Of that Commission, which, by such acts, he had virtually re-
signed. Tne Noble Lord then entered into a detail of the par-
ticulars el the Meeting at York, and reprehended the coaduct
of Isarl Fitzwilliern in having stood by the side ef Mr. %eater
on the hustings, and observed, that the King's Commisiion
was never so disgraced before.—lie also animadverted upon the
Meeting at Sheffield, where banners were carried, inscribed
with the names of his Lordehip and the Radical Re-
formers of Yorkshire. Ile said that twenty thousand
men bad gone armed, or the greater part of them, to that Meet-
ing. In order to show that the Noble Earl was considered by
[the Refenners as one of themselves, his Lordship read a
passage front a. pericdical paper, called Tie Black Mewl, in
which it w.s sail, that in case of redress being tettised,
his Lend-hip v. es pleOged to imitate his noble ancestor, who, at'
Ilmefitmeae, h spoinencetoly drawn the sword, to teach the
tyrant John, that the rights et the people could be vindicated,'
at d their iiquriee avenged. Ile hoped the House would suspend
their jitteoncnt nit the conduct of men who could be actuated by
tia nae.ives of sell nacres'. Ile was willing to own that a case
magic: arise, in whi:h the 'conduct of Magistrates might call For
inquiry; but the preseet wan toa complicated in all its (monks.
Tire present was a e itiealthuc. ile was far fr,pro considering
that all who Attend these tumultuous Meetings were i"-edisposed
towards the Constitution. Ile hoped they would be recleaned
from their errors. lie had liveii too mush in times of rebellion
net to know that many may be deluded for the munitut, who

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in'tenwerds become f, ithful eetjects and supporters of the Con-
stitution—that a great proportion of the People wea exempt
from the taint, he firmly believed, enough to secure the Throne
from danger; kit it could nut be ccemaled, that there. was a
very large body of men in titli country, acted upon by the most
daring and darteerous aeitaters, whose only object was rapine and
blood. We had the example et a reighbouring country to warn
us of our denger—(llear). Ile had no fear, however, but that
• the ,Constitutiots of I'4land would continue to sustain its glory,
and spread ite blessings to the latest posto ity.
Er. BOOTLE is ILIIRAIIA2.I felt it necessary, ass Magi-
strate of the County of Lineaster, and a Mt tuber of the Grand
Jury, to say a few words respective, the transactions at Man.
cheater. Of the particular facts which came before them, he was
bound by his.onth to say nothing ; but thus much he might say,
that the Grata Jtiry separated, perfectly coeviticed that the Ma-
' gistraies of Manchester :feted on the 16th of August with the
most perfect propriety.
Mi. COKE thought it right to say, and he felt extremely happy
that an occasion thus presented itself to bins fur assuring the
Home that he was mispdarmed on• the subject of Major Cuch-
rane's Interference with the Military, and he. was very anxious
to have itnunderstood that he was mistaken on that 'milt.
Lnsd MILTON entered into an explanetion wish regard to
the arrangements of the Yorkshire Meeting, and endeavoured to
justify the motives which induced him to separate himself from
the party to which Mr. S. Wortley, and several (Tentkmen in
the same County, attached themselves. The fact was, that Mr.
Wortley had only declined :a act with the Meeting at York, be-
cause the Gentlemen who signed the kle:Misition had declined to
adopt his Loyal Resolutions. The words which his lion. Friend
made use of were—" If you agree with me, and admit my Wool u.
dons, I shall prevail on my friends to agree with me, and sup-
port your liesolutioes."--elle had refused to adopt Mr. Wortley's
Resolutions, because he did not think, that, when they were
calling for inns uiry into the ttenteurtions at Manchester, they
should mix up propositions that should be discussed elsewhere.
Mr. S. WORTLEY felt anxious that his conduct should be
explained, as far as it was concerned in the transaction alluded
to by the Noble Lord (Milton). It was very true that when
he spoke to his Noble Friend on the subject he bud alluded to,
he did say he would endedvour to prevail upon his friends to
agree with him. The next day, in order to prevent mistake on
this subject, he put his conversation into writing. It was thus:
0 Will you throw us off, to hold with men who CAA have no
other object in view than to destroy the Constituticti ?"—(llear
hear). This was the advice he had given his Noble Friend, bet
be had not thought it right to adhere to it. Ile would not,
my that there was no ground for inquiring into the transactions
at Manchester, but he would say, that had it not been for the
shuffling of those connected with that occurrence, such inquiry
would long since have been obtained. He protested, however.
against inquiry at the Bar of that House, because it was itnpos-
: sable that a Court of Justice, composed of six hundred persons,
could be suited to that purpose. The Courts of Law were the
places adapted to the ends of justice in those cases. A Meeting
at Coventry had been dispersed, whether right or wrong, in a
similar manner to that of Manchester. In that case the Cum
of Kiog's Bench had been app'ied to in the first instance, and
that Court evinced no disposition to refuse justice. lie trusted
that a large majority would vote for the original Address, and
convince the House and the country how they feel on the subjt.ct.
Sir J. MACKINTOSH supported the Amendment. lie
said, that the history of the world, and particularly that of Inc.
dent times, fully proved the tenger of resisting the progress of
opinion, by means of force; and that, even when eestrictive or-
dinances might be necessary, the operation was sure to produce
a very dangerous degree of irritation an:ougat the community.
Fully condemning, as he did, all violent attempts at Reform
on the part of the People, he thought that such a reform of
abuses might be effected as would conciliate the Empire, and
restore its confidence in the wisdom of the Government. He
urged the expediency of inquiry, upon the ground.of the necessity
of conciliation. He then animadverted en the pre.natureexpressions
of approbation given by Ministers to the Manchester Magistrates
Ile then cited several precedents in which inquiry had taken
place by that House, in cases nearly similar to that at Manches-
ter, and contended, that none of the proceedings now pending
at law would touch the question, as.to the regality or illegality
of the conduct of the Magistrates. He then endeavoured to
shew, that no evidence had been in the possession of the Magis-
trates previous to the arrest of Mr. Hunt, sufficient to justify
the measures they took, and that although their conduct might
not have been such as to be reached by a criminal prosecution,
still it might have been sufficiently criminal to call for their dis-
missal from their Commissions. Me groat question was, did or
did not these Magistrates endanger the lives of 50,000 subjects
without that necessity having been alleged to exist capable oft
justifying the att? This was the question, and he trusted
that, for the honour of that House,. in the name of the Con-
stitution which they all venerated, that an inquiry might be im-
mediately set on foot. The Parliament ought to lay aside every
subordinate consideration to support the rights of the subject.
lie eulogized Earl Fitzwilliens's conduct, and said, that ir. dis-
missing him from his situation, the Ministers seemed to adopt
the maxim of the ancient tyrant—
" Virtutem ipsam exscindere."
The name of Mr. Wooler was coupled with that of Earl Fitz-
williarn, for no other purpose than to excite prejudice. Ile con-
cluded by supporting the Amendment.
Mr. PLUNKETT thought the present question had nothing
to do with Lord Fitzwilliam : it ought to be kept dietinct from
every other. He was in no fear of a revolution in this country,
but he was apprehensive of an attempt at it. lie saw a-class of
individuals, whose object appeared evidently to plunder every
one who had property; he saw them sending blasphemous pub •
lications into the world ; and he saw the principal political
Mountebank, the itinerant politician, assisting at the orgies of
the Blasphemer. After this, could there be any doubt of the
object of this individual, and those who acted with him?—
With respect to the hlanchester Magistrates, unless a strong
ease was made out against them, there was, nu ground for going
out of the usual course, and to adopt Parliamentary inquiry.—
• If any individual has been injured by them, he might proceed in
the usual way, by action or otherwise. He had -Lensidered all
the circumstances attending the Manchester Meeting; he did•
not believe any man would be found bold enough to say this
was a legal Meeting. Ile had no hesitation in declaring his
opinion that it was an illegal Meeting—(linir).. "Wale a Per-
liarnentary Inquiry could be instituter, vn.: muse declare we had
no confidence its the Public Functionaries, from the hlagistretes
up to the Judges. If such 1 course was adopted, it would prove
a damper to all loyal men; and no one would in nettle stand
forward to discharge the dangerous duties of the Magistracy.
Mr. SCARLETT said, that even if he were convinced that
his Majesty's Ministers had not countenanced, or that the Man-
chester Magistrates had not acted as had been represented, he
should have beep anxious for an inquiry into the transactions,
.because he should have hoped that circumstances would have
transpired, to remove the delusion that appeared to operate on
the public mind. He thought his Hon. Friend who spoke last,
could not have been so informed on the subject, as to justify him
lin stating such strong and confident opinions--at least he never
expected, on this side the Channel, to have heard of facts being
ascertained previous to inquiry. 4 great difference of opinion
prevailed upon the affair at Manchester, even amongst the most
loyal people in this Country, as well as upon the disposition of
Ministers to introduce the government of a Military despotism.
He would not give any opinion on the nature of the Meeting at
Manchester. The !ceders on that occasion might have been
criminal, he believed they were criminal ; but why were hinds-
tens so supine on other occasions, and so particularly vienent
}mon that! They suffered a Meeting at Smithfield, where COOP
ditional allegiance was made one of the Resolutions: and yet
they did not prosecute the man W. 40 had the hattlihood to pro.
side at it, and affix 11:s name to such a species of Resolutions.
These Resolutions embraced sedition if any Resolutions ever
did ; and yet those Who assisted at such Meetings were never
brought before the tribunals of the country. Nu riot was com-
mitted by the Myeting at Manchester up to the period of Hunt's
arrest. Either,' then, he would, say, the Als.gistrates had the
'sower, or they had not the power, to put it down by force. If
they could put ft down by force, why arrest Hunt as they did,
and why nut have prevented it altogether? • But whateverthe
character of the Meeting might be, the people were sabred and
cut down; although he Was happy to hear the Noble jerd say,
the Magistrates never intended that the Meeting should be so
dispersed, he was afraid, however, that the people generally
would not take that fact upon the mere assertion of the Noble
Lord. The law gave a power to.the Civil Officer to arrest, and
' if any resistance was offered, then to nee force and compel a
surretsler ; but no law gave ;int Civil or other officer a newer
, of trample first, and out and maim the party or parties not hav-
ing resisted the order of such officers. Using,force et she outset
could not be justified, nor should a man's brains be hunched onn
because It was alleged be • as caught in the consinis.iuu of a
misdemeenour. The people had a right to meet and posiggswier
die redress of grievances, and however absurd their abjeettlaiit
°PLlb4ireit)rid indigthatt bdeol he did
evu. 0;iot ber
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