The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-06-28 00:00:00

BILLS OF EXCHANGE BILL.

The Marquis of L A.icsnowNE, in moving tit committal of
this bill, stated, that the object of it was to render perpetual
the temporary act which repealed a portion of the usury laws,
and permitted a higher rate of interest than five per cent.
upon the discount of bills. The experiment had been tried
for several years past, and had been productive of the most
beneficial effects. In a commercial and mercantile point of
view, such a measure seemed indeed to be absolutely indis-
pensable. It was, therefore, proposed to make this law,
which experience proved to be not only harmless, but emi-
nently useful and beneficial, permanent. He trusted that
that proposition would meet with their lordships' approval.
It would be his duty in committee to move an amendment,
extending the operation of the bill to a class of securities not
now comprehended in it—hemeant to Exchequer bills. India
bonds, and other securities of that description.
The Duke of WELLINGTON said although he was anxious
that the bill should pass, in order to relieve the country from
any pressure upon commerce at this particular moment, yet,
feeling that the general state of the trade in this country
could not be expected to yield an interest of 5 or 5i per cent,
or anything of the nature contemplated in this bill, perma-
nently, he thought the legislature ought not to hold out to
the public permanently such a prospect as would enable those
who had fraudulent intentions to carry them into execution.
He entreated their lordships to guard persons from this
description of misfortune, by limiting the operation of the
bill to the' Ist January, 1842. He should move an amend-
ment to that effect in committee.
The house then went into committee.
On reading the first clause,
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE introduced an amendment
to the effect he had described.
Lord WYNFORD moved, as an amendment, that if a bill
be not taken up at the end of twelve months after it had
become due, the rate of interest upon that bill should not be
more than five per cent. . . . .

Lord ASHBURTON was understood to coincide with the
noble duke, that the duration of this measure should be
temporary, in order to give an opportunity of considering the
subject generally.
The LORD CHANCELLOR said, the effect of his noble and
learned friend's (Lord Wynford's) amendment, however
desirable in his own view, was perfectly unattainable.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE should acknowledge the
force of the noble duke's observations as to putting people
on their guard, could he believe that people stood in need of
being put on their guard with respect to tk value of money.
The first clause having been agreed to, the question was
put on the Duke of Wellington's amendment, which was
proposed in the shape of a separate clause.
The house divided, when the numbers were—Contents,
69 ; non-contents, 52 : majority for the clause, 17. The bill
then went through a committee, and the house resumed.
The protection from bankruptcy and the Court of Com-
mon Pleas bills severally went through committee without
amendments.—Adjourned.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.-MONDAY.
ELECTION PETITION.

A petition was •presented against the return of Mr. Al-
cock, for the borough of Ludlow.
CLERGY RESERVES (CANADA.)
Mr. LABOUCHERE (in answer to Mr. Pakington's in-
quiry) said that a bill had been received from Upper Canada,
regarding the clergy reserves, but that it was unaccompanied
by the requisite document from the governor, without which
it was not legal, even if the legality of it were not question-
able on other grounds arising out of the course pursued by
the Canadian legislature.
COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—EDUCATION VOTES.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL did not think it necessary to enter
into the general question of education in proposing a com-
mittee of supply. The objections that had been stated or
that might be stated on the general subject could not now
very conveniently be discussed, after the long discussion
which had taken place before the Speaker left the chair. It
might be contended that the whole education scheme ought
to left in the hands of the church. It might be contended
that the state ought not to grant any sum of money which
should not be placed at the disposal of the church, but those
were not the questions now in dispute. (Hear, hear.) The
question now in dispute was, whether they would agree to
grant £30,000 for the purposesiof public education, or whe-
ther they would altogether refuse that vote. Cries of " No,
no," from the opposition benches.) He understood that to
be the proposition, and that the ground of it was, that, in-
stead of voting a sum for education to be placed at the dis-
posal of the treasury, it was a sum placed at the disposal
of a committee of the privy council, consisting of cer-
tain of her Majesty's servants. He did not see upon what
argument that refusal was to be based. He could understand
the argument that the state ought not to encourage any doc-
trine or any opinion but that which was held by the Esta-
blished Church, in connection with the state ; and that no
such doctrine ought to be encouraged by vote of parliament.
But in respect of this mere question being the disposal of the
grant to the privy council, or the board of the treasury—it
did not appear to him that there was any ground upon which
to refuse to make any grant for public education. He thought
it would be far better for the argument if the change was the
other way. In that case they would have had something to
support them in their views supposing there had been a
committee of the privy council appointed for the purpose of
education, and the grant had been at their disposal, partly
for the school under the National Society, and partly for the
British and Foreign, and supposing it had been intended to
make a change in that grant, then there might have been
something said against any such change. If the disposal of
this money was left to a board of treasury, that board might
be constituted part of Roman Catholics, and then the ob-
jection on the other side might apply. The question was then
put that £30,000 be granted by her Majesty for public edu-
cation in Great Britain, for the year 1839.
Lord MAHON said he felt it his duty to meet the motion
with a direct negative ; and in doing so, he thought it neces-
sary, after what had fallen from the noble lord, to explain that
his objections and the objections of other honourable mem-
bers on that side of the house did not apply, in the slightest
degree, to any grant for education intended and directed upon
right principles. He could scarcely conceive, that any per-
son could have so utterly misunderstood, or industriously
misrepresented the statements on his side the house. (Op-
position cheers.) Let the noble lord put them to the test—
would he consent to move for the same vote as last year, and
upon the same principle—let him move even a much larger
grant, conducted on the same principles, and he would then
ascertain what the opinion of that side of the house was. He
called upon the noble Lord not to forget what he seemed to
have done, and which was most expressly stated by his noble
friend, the member for North Lancashire, that his main ob-
jection was not to the grant coming from the treasury, but
to the alteration in the principles of its application. He again
repeated, that, if the noble lord would propose such a vote,
he could venture to promise that there was not a member on
that side of the house who would not give it his full and cor-
dial support. But if the noble lord would not take that
course—if he told them that that vote of £30,000, which he
now proposed, was to be conducted and confirmed upon the
minute of the 3d of June, if he found that minute of the 3d
of June contained within itself the power of reviving the
former minute of the 13th of April, and if he found these two
minutes closely connected together; and if, on the other
hand, the forms of the house precluded him from bringing
forward a vote of moving on the principle of last year, then
he repeated that he had no alternative, and it became his duty
to oppose the vote now before the house. What was the
reason for pressing the new plan upon the nation, with a bare
majority in that house for it, and an incalculable majority in
the country against it ? Even beneficial measures ought not
in a free country, to be pressed against public opinion. And
if the government plan were not so objectionable as he be-
lieved it was, he (Lord Mahon) should oppose its being forced
upon an unwilling country ; for let it be recollected, that
though laws, however unpopular, might be enforced—(hear,
hear)—a system of education, if contrary to the public feel-
ing, would be inoperative. The parents would not send their
childien'to the schools ; and thus the effect would be, not to
forward, but to retard education. (Hear, hear, hear.) The
scheme would not protect the safeguards of religion, and the
adoption of normal schools would lead to total indifference
on all religious matters.
Mr. BAINES said, that the noble lord who had just sat
down had considered the first plan propounded by ministers
as identical with that of the 3d of June. The plans, however,
were essentially different. No plan could possibly be devised
which was not open to some objection; and it should not be
forgotten that the present ministry was the first to attempt
to grapple with this crying evil. He sincerely trusted that
the house would not decline to adopt this modified plan, it
being his anxious wish to render education not sectarian but
general—to extend it, in short, without distinction, to every
class of the community.
Lord TEIGNMOTH had listened with the utmost aston-
ishment to the tone which had been adopted by some hon.
gentlemen opposite, considering the extraordinary concor-
dance of opinion which prevailed as to the absolute necessity
of makingxeligious instruction form a portion of any sys-
of education provided by the state. He was almost led to
believe, that the noble lord opposite had gone the length of
propounding in that house what he would not have attempted
anywhere else—the doctrine of a general Christianity, ab-
stracted from distinct and peculiar tenets. (Hear, hear.)
He (Lord Teignmouth) must for one protest against the very
pernicious powers, in this respect, Which it was proposed to
intrust to the committee of privy council. He would put it
to the noble lord (for whom he had the utmost respect), con-
sidering the state of the country, the inteasely earnest feeling
of the church of England, and the growing impression in all
parts of the country that something must he done for eduction,
(" Hear, hear," from the ministerial benches,)—and he would
ask him why he did not come forward and place himself at
the head of the established church, and, with God's blessing,
save the country in one of the most difficult and perilous crisis
it was ever placed in. That was the proper position in which
a minister of the crown should be ; whereas it was a false po-
sition in which the noble lord was placed. He (Lord Teign-
mouth) had heard of an officer of the catholic church, called
L' Avocato del Diavolo ; he trusted the noble lord would not
choose that position. (Laughter.)
Mr. LANGDALE protested against that exclusion of Roman
Catholics from national education which this new proposal
went to redress.
Mr. LITTON was anxious to raise his voice against a sys-
tem of education which in Ireland had totally failed. No
man who had a regard for the established religion of the
country, who valued it as the shield of our religious and civil
liberties, could sustain the proposition of the noble lord, the
effect, not the object, of which was to subvert the pro-
testant religion. He wished that hon. members should dis-
tinctly understand that no part of the plan, contained in the
minute of the 13th of April, ha 4 been abandoned by the go-
vernment. He looked upon the noble lord as the enemy of
the establishment ; and the present government endeavoured,
as far as they could, to lower and lessen the dignity of the
protestant establishment. (Hear, hear.) If the house trusted
the government with the power of injuring the establishment,
it would be betrayed.
Mr. M. J. O'CONNELL said, the question was not really
one of education, but of party, and protested against the in-
justice of those who would establish a system not accessible
to Roman catholics.
Mr. CRESSWELL said be would take that opportunity of
stating what were the reasons upon which he grounded his
refusal to assent to the present proposed plan of the govern-
ment, and the motion then before the house. He would
take the liberty of briefly stating what was the true position
of the question then before the house. A committee of the
privy council having been constituted according to the wishes
of her majesty, at the advice of her present ministers, it was
intended that they should superintend the disposal of all
such sums as should be voted for educational .purposes, and
this extraordinary power was to be vested in them by means
of that grant of money—a means whereby another important
branch of the legislature was deprived of the exercise of any
opinion upon the present matter. (Hear, hear.) But, he
would ask, how was that committee, even supposing it got
this power, to oblige the schools to submit to their regula-
tion ? He would read, from a document issued from the
CeidrAt Board Society, a brief statement of what were the
• . a. •Milojects of the government :—" Let the central board
04-* of only to aid in building school houses, but in
d schools when established, and the way
dually opened for a more comprehensive
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