Star.
London, England, 1828-02-29 00:00:00

GAOL&

Lord MORPETH presented a Petition from the Pri-
soners confined for debt in Horsham Gaol. He bad
no connection with the Petitioners. They complained
of the seaminess of the accommodations, and of the
prison allowance. There were 38 prisoneri altogether.
He did not think prisons ought to be places of luxury,
but limits should be put to their hardships, and he ex
petted much from the general desire for improvement
which seemed to prevail. One circumstance in this
prison deserved particular attention, the want of sutE.
cient classification, and of air and exercise. He trusted
the Magistrates of Sussex would inquire into the sub-
ject. If the interference of the Secretary for the Home
Department should be deemed necessary, he felt coufi
dent it would not be refused.

Mr. HARVEY said he presented a Petition last Ses-
,sion from the same persons, and nearly in the same
words. U 1 oh than occasion enough was said by an
Hon. M 4 mher, a M igi trace of Sussex, to quiet irquir)
at the time, for he dtcl wed the statements were rug
gerated. He hoped the matter would receive the at-
tention of the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Peel).
Mr. CURTEIS said inquiries had been made in con-
sequence of a Petition presented last Session. One
complaint made then was, that the prisoners were
summons &to their various avocatitlns and duties by a
whistle. This practice had been done away with. These
was a volunteer company going about the prisons in
search of grtevancec. They were admitted to all parts
of' this prison, and could find little subject for complaint.
The chimneys were in part stopped up, but that arose
from their having been need as a means of escape. A
Special Session was held in consequence of the Petition
last Session, and some alterations made, not many.
There was a fund out of which the prisoners are as-
sisted, Now, however, they complained that they were
not allowed wine and water—that they were deprived
of losuries.

The Petition was read, and ordered to be printed.
Lord DILINCANNON presented Petitions in favour of Eman-
cipation. from Listowry, Hurliagford, and nine other places.
Sir T. LETHBRIDGE presented a Petition against the Malt
Act, from the Mahaters of Taunton, in Somerset. The Act
Obated a great deliciency in the Revenue, and did much injury to
Else Malts:era.

On the motion of Mr. W. PEEL, a Return was ordered of an
Persons committed to the various Prisons of England and Wales
for the last seven years, distinguhlsing their offences, the number
executed, Ste.

EDUCATION IN IRELAND.

Mr. J. GRATTAN presented a Petition, which, he
said, was of great importance. It was on the subject
of education, and came from the Catholic Bishops of
Ireland. He concurred with them fully in the senti-
ments expressed in the Petition. What they complained
of was, the system of interference now followed. There'
was a time when education was prohibited to Roman
Catholics, under Elisabeth and succeeding reigns.—
That duty was then confided to the Clergy of the Este-
ed Church, and various foundations for education
were formed in consequence. The Commissioners ap-
pointed some time back, recommended that this whole
system should be done away with,.and the fund.directed
to a general but national plan of education. Nothing
of the kind had been done since. 'There were various
societies in Ireland for the furtherance of education,
each following its own rules, but the Catholics derived
no advantage from them. These rules led to disputes
and differences between the Established Clergy and
those of the Roman Catholic Church. He should wish
to tee the funds voted by Parliament applied to a na-
tional plan of education. If the present system went
on, the greatest evils must result from it. The grants
for charter schools had been greatly abused, and the
reports of the Commissioners represented them as most
mischievous. Still, however, they were continued.—
The grants to them in a few years was not less than
1,600,0001. These grants and others, such as that for the
discountenancing of vice, should be applied, as he stated
before, to some national system of education. If such
as plan were adopted, there would, under proper regula-
tions, be no disposition on the part of the Catholics to
expel the Scriptures. He trusted the Right Honoutable
Gentleman (Mr. Lamb) would take up the subject.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT recommended that his Hon.
Friend (Mr. Grattan) should fix some day for this dis-
cussion. It was a subject of the utmost importance.—
The system was now worse than if the House had never
interfered at all. He recommended earnestly to the
House to enter seriously upon the inquiry as early as
possible.
The Petition having been read, and the Tuition put that it be
hrd upon the table.
Mr. W. LAMB said he did not rise for the purpose
of entering at any length into the subject. It had, he
believed, been brought under the consideration of the
H ,use twenty years back. Various reports had since
that tine been made on it, and various measures pro-
posed. Another Commission was appointed, not
long back, to inquire into the matter, and they also
made a report. The length of time which had passed
since the question was first agitated,without having been
able, up to the present day, to come to any satisfactory
result, was a proof of the difficulties in which it was
involved. Those difficulties were not now diminished.
The Government was not prepared at present to come
forward with any measure. He should, however, be
prepared to receive from the House whatever assistance
they could give upon a point of so much importance.
It would, be thought, be better, if some specific propo-
sition were brought forward, as no great benefit could
result from general discussion.
Mr. S. RICE said he heard with regret what had
fallen from his Right Honourable Friend (Mr. Lamb).
Had be recommended to the House to wait for better
timer, he (Mr. Rice) should feel disposed to acquiesce,
but it was impossible they could stand still on this sub-
ject. For his part, he should not concur in the usual
annual votes for lrelaad, connected with education,
unless he was fiat aware of what was intended to be
done. Last Session be put the question to Mr. Can-
ning, whether a Committee was to be appointed to in-
quire into the subject of education in Ireland ? The
answer of his. Right Honourable Friend was, that he
meant to propose a Committee for something tanta-
mount to it this Session. If no other person took up
the subject he should do it himself, aad submit a mo-
tion for the appointment of a Committee. It something
was not done on the subject, be would himself move for

a Committee, for he verily believed both the contending '
parties were not only in the wrong, but were inclined
to state they were so. He did not give this notice with
any adverse feelings to the Government. He wished
to conciliate all ; and, as the best means of doing so,
unless he were anticipated, he would give the notice
he had stated.
Colonel WOOD said the best plan would be to
withdraw the votes for money from all parties—(Hear.
hear).—He hoped every clergyman in Ireland would
be obliged to keep his parish school, and then a great
saving would be made to the public.
Sir H. PARNELL said that the money voted for
this subject was shamefully misapplied, and he was sure
the Catholics would consider any such vote as an act
of hostility to them and to their interest.
Mr. F. LEWIS, having served on the Commission
to which allusion was made, complained of the exagge-
rations which had taken place as to the nature of their
labours. Their object was to diminish the evil of
discord which existed, and not to increase it. That
they failed in decreasing it was not th it fault, and it
was only to vindicate himself that he now rose to state
those few observations.
Mr. H. GRATTAN complained of the system by
which landlords and their agents would riot let leases,
unless the tenant allowed their children to be educated
as the landlord thought proper. The object of such a
system was to make good Catholics bad Protestants ;
and to foment the purposes of faction in Ireland. It
was in vain to think that harmony or peace could pre-
vail in Ireland until this question was set at rest. An
idle bundle of reports could do no good; and he trusted
the Government of Ireland would attend to it.
Mr. MOORE denied the mismanagement of Money,
particularly as regarded the Kildare-street Society—a
body of men who were entitled to the thanks of every
man of sense in both countries. He contended that all
education should have the Scriptures as its foundation,
without which it would tend to promote rather than
discourage immorality. Thu Kildare-street School had
now increased to twelve thousand, and the system there
adopted met with the approbation of all the intelligent
classes in !reload.
The Petition was then ordered to be printed, after a
few further remarks front Mi. GIIATTAK, expressing'
his regret that the Government were not prepared to
pay more attention to the subject.'
Mr.S. RICE gave notice that be would move fors Select Com-
mittee to 'wake into the su►ject of Education in Ireland, on tint
I tth of March neat.

POLICE Or THE METROPOLIS.
Mr. Secretary PEEL, in bringing forward his motion
relative to the Police of the Metropolis, spoke as fol-
lows:—I am desirous, Sir, of calling the attention of
the House to a subject which at first view may appear
to be of limited operation, and to embrace considera.l
tions merely local; but, on further reflection, I entertain
no doubt whatever that it will be looked on as involving
matters of the very utmost importance. The subjects
to which I shall primarily advert are the increase of
crime in the metropolis and the districts adjoining, and
the state of the police, and the establishments connected
with the police, in London and its vicinity--I mean
those that are connected with it for the prevention of
crime. In the early past of last Session, I gave notice
of my intention of proposing so this House to institute
an inquiry into the state of the polices but the circuma
stances connected with my retirement from office pre-
vented that inquiry from being followed up as it would
otherwise have been ; and after the Easter recess it was
too late for those on whom that duty naturally devolved
to bring forward this subject in Parliament. The Noble
Lord, the Member for Brandon, proposed to the House
to institute an inquiry into the state of crime and
police, I may say, throughout every part of the nation.
That inquiry was for some time prosecuted with con-
siderable effect, and much useful information obtained.
Thus the foundation was laid of ulterior proceedings,
and probably that Noble Lord may think it expedient
to revive the subject before the end of the present Ses-
sion. The objects of his inquiry were threefold--the
causes of the increase of crime in the agricultural dis-
tticts, in the manufacturing districts, and in the metro-
polis. Of these three, the first was the only branch in
which the inquiries were prosecuted to such an extent as
enabled the Committee to make a report.As respected the
manufacturing districts, no evidence has been adduced,
nor any information communicated to the House. The
stablest of crime and police in the metroptiis was not at
all touched upon by this Committee, and it is that, the
third branch of the inquiry, which' shallon the present
occasion desire to bang under the consideration of the
House. In thus setting,on foot an inquiry, with a view
to trace, and if possible discover, the means of prevent-
ing in some degree the increase of vime in the metro-
polis, t shalt notice in the first place the number of
commitments and cons ictions in London and its vicinity,
previously to doing which, however, I must be permit-
ted to observejthat no inquiry could be mote loudly
or more urgently called fur, by circumstances, than one
which should have for its ohject to diminish the clime
of the metropolis, and to place its police upon a letter
footing than it has hitherto stood. The information
which has impressed this persuasion upon my mind, is
derived from a source of the highest authority ; indeed,
the facts are so evident Mid S;) notorious, that they admit
not of the slightest doubt or controversy ; and it is im-
possible for any one to be acquainted with them withcut
feeling perfectly satisfied that the degree of security of
person and property, but chiefly of property, is sot such
as ought to be enj eyed by the inhabitants of this me-,
tropolis and its vicinity. I repeat, Sir, that in London '
and the districts immediately adjoining it, there is not
that protection for the subjects of the realm which every
subject is entitled to who yields allegiance to a State.—
Ike facts which lead me to this conclusion are not alone,
derived from experience, not alone from local informa-
tion, but from official Returns prepared in the office of
the Secretary of State foi the Home Department. and
formerly laid upon the table of this House. These
Returns exhibit in the most striking form the increase
of crime in those distt lets ; they are confined exclusively
to those districts, and when compared with the popula-
tion, will be found to bear a most unusual proportion. I
am now, Sir. speaking of the increase of came in Lon-
don and its viciwity. With that which has taken place.
and I fear is going forward, in the country, I shall not
at present trouble the House. I should propose to
postpone that till the other has been satisfactorily dis-
posed of. I shall now read some extracts from the Re.

turns laid un the table .
commitments in London
La taw
lalt
ISM
1113
During these four
the numbers materiall;
year 1823,as compared
of 270. In 1824,
namely, from 2,503
that I am confining
serious character, It
of offence of a petty
stated, the numbers
2,902; in 1826, the'
amounted to 3,457
pared with the preced
the numbers being
increase in 1826 w;
1827 so small, that t
to justify our dispen:
(Hear, hear). In
:time, I mean numeric;
%atisfactory to refieCr
aggravated charactr
quart, and that, generai
these returns embr

1820. it will be
2.773—in 1826. 3.
In that class of °few
in 1820, the numbers
exhibiting a difference
numbers of those yr
634; hence it is ev,
only made up that
not only constitutei
much more, for
have been materi,
Some time since I
tion of the state of
of the Continent.
ing Berlin, Paris,
I have also procured
of crime in the in;
dom—in London—
Dublin—in Edinbnri
turns. I admit. are
curiosity than any '
may be instituted
different places, as
offences, do not
infetences can be

very ingenious esti,
different parts of
sieur Peyronnet,
for obtainin4 col
and has availed
tent. I have eat
they are limited to
in so detailed and
worthy of regard,
to call the attention
calculations which
minute and exact
be obtained, of the
mina! justice in Fr.
offenders, the oat:
curious and instruct
In addition to chit
proportion of crime lropos t,
of criminals as contrasted with the. amount of popula-
tion, distinguishing between the number of -42ffeuces
committed against the person and against proper ty.—
Along with this they describe the nature of the respec-
tive offences, and detail * great number of circuits-
stances connected with the state of crime in different
parts of France, which are not less curious than instruc.
tive. With the assistance of the accounts, and of Be.
turns of the state of crime in this country. I have en.
deavoured to compare the offences committed in Paris
with those perpetrated in London. I have made the
comparison in reference not only to the amount of crime,
but to the amount of population in the two capitals....
The last census of the population of Pal it? was taken in
1817. In the year 1320 it was admitted that the num.
bens in that capital uere pretty neatly the same as is
1817, no material variation having taken place in the
interim. In 1817, then, according to an exact account
then taken of the population of Paris, the numbers will
stead thus—
Permanent population within the barters . atm
Variable population in Prisons, in 43 Military Estahli I.
aunts, and 49S Bowls

. 54,714

Total villain the barriers . 713,94t1
Or say In rollanlillinhers seven hundred and hones" thousand.
In addition to this there are contained—

. _
~,.. ."' ) -•;•?atA
'!_-_,
..,i "•-.. ~ ‘,.. -mk, Y:4l -4-
-
ce
• , ,
- . -
...._ _ .
.t 1 . • :
t ' '
'144%144.
, .:
..
[PRICE SZVEMO2I4OI. - '
~-, . ,—...— es,
,ble of this House, of convictions gird
ondon and Middlesex:
D ate namben were' s,rts
1 • . smo , r
I . . 2,5112
3 . . 2,503
ur years, the House will observe that ,
rially varied. The numbers is *
the .
ared with 1820, exhibited a difference
, there was a progressive increase, 14
6 to 2.621. The House will observe, .1 P , I
g myself exclusively to crimes of a ' •
[speak- net ofassaults, nor any species Y.
y nature—in 1824, as I have already ,
rrs were 2,621 ; in 1825, they were
ley increased so rapidly as to haye ..-
--1
; in 1827, however, there was, corn. I )1:
'ceding year, a diminution of 76 / •
.
in the latter only 3 881; still the 1 • i
: . i
was so large, and the diminution in
t this circumstance affords no ground
ensing with the proposed inquiry— I '''
viewing this vast accuinnlation of tlil
rnerically considered, it is estremsly P ,
&let that none of them are of an
ter—that murder cases are not fee- t
merally speaking, the aeons which i
( r '
:, ce are connected with property. In
,
retollected that the numbers were
I.4s7—exhibiting a difference of 664.
Fences denominated simple larcenies,
bers were 1,3144—in 1826, 2,118-- 1.
ence of 734. Now, between the total
years there war a difference of only #;,+
rident that the crime of larceny not
ri
it difference, but went beyond it. It
ted the whole of the inerea,e, but
the other classes of offences mast t' 01'
jelly diminished in that interval.
took measures for obtaining intornia• .. -
F increase of crime in the large towns .
I have obtained information respect-
Vienna, Antwerp, and Hambargh. ' ,: f
red returns connected with the state
principal towns of the United King-
n—in Glasgow—in Liverpool—.
inrgh, and other places. These re- I
. . •
tre in many cases more matters of , .'r
r thing else. The comparisons that t ,
between the relative conditions of ' '-r-
-,
sit regards the commission of criminal
4 1 t •
always form grounds from which
.
safely and correctly drawn. Sisine h
estimates of the state of crime in
France, have been made by -Mon-
who has had excellent opportunit:es
°nett information on the subj•ct,
himself of them to no small ea--
Retained these tables, and although likt
:o the year 1825, yet they ate presented
id perfect a form that they ate nel,l
trd, and I shall therefore venture
anionof the Hone to some of tare
ts I .
- they contain. They give a moie f 1
ct account than is in most cases ea
he state of the administration of esti. r
France.. The names and ages ofthe r
rite of their crimes, and a vast deal of
uctive details, are contained in them. I
his, they comprehend accounts of-ti.e
ne in each department, the proportion :. t
ontra,ted with the. amount of pokrula- f 1.
no . . between the number of-offences f