Star.
London, England, 1827-03-07 00:00:00

of Ireland should b? open to the inspection of Go-
vernment. These were the securities proposed, and
it wrluld be remembered that the private coue-
spottarice was nothing new—that it had long existed.
and that it did still exist.—(Hear, hear t) But if secu-
rities had been demanded some years since, he would
ask if no alteration had taken place in the times ?
Might it not so happen too, that that which would have
operated as a security, would at the present period no
longer effect the same end? Had the restoration of the
Pope made no difference as to securities But %he
Hon. Gentleman who argued for details, when the
House was only called to decide as to whether It
would reject or adopt a simple parliamentary principle,
made no allowance whatever for the change of cii-
cumsrances and of perieds.—(Hear, hear!) The Bill
of 1813 failed, not upon the question of security, but by
the vote of the Speaker on the clause respecting seats in
Parliament, and by that vote he had bequeathed them
the precious legacy they now inherit. The Catholics.
then naturally withdrew from the offer of the securities.
The bargain was off. The Right Hon. Gentleman
spoke as if he had entered into negotiation with the
Homan Catholic Clergy. So far was this from being
the case, that he had asserted over and over again fiat
he never would exchange a syllable or a line with any
Roman Catholic upon the subject. It was not a
question of bargain and sale. It was for Parliament
to enact, and for every class of subjects to obey. If
Parliament descended to bargain, it would be guilty
of a great dereliction of dtira.et The question had
not been lost for want of seat In the other House
of Parliament the idea of securities were scorned.—
In this it now appeared they were held in "the highest
estimation. So that between the two the Catholics were
to be reduced to a dilemma. The Lords did not say
that there was any danger, and it was a hard task that
his Right Hon Friend imposed upon him first to find
out the danger, and then to discover the securities. It
was like that imposed upon one of the characters in the
Bible, not only to interpret the dream, but to find out
what the dream was. He had always thought it ne-
cessary, that whenever the question should be carried,
the Sovereign should have some controul or cognizance
with respect to the nomination of Bishops. The King of
Prussia h d this power, and the King of the Nether-
lands was sow negotiating to procure it. But they
went for this power to the market where it was to be
had—namely, to the Pope. But he was precluded
from such a course, for he had an opinion of his Right
Ron. Friend upon cases submitted to him, that, by cor-
responding with the Coutt of Rome, he should incur
the penalties of a Premunire.
The MASTER of the ROLLS said, that the opinion
was stated in a private letter.
Mr. Secretary CANNING replied, that it was in reply
to a case officially submitted by him, as Secretary of
State, to the Right Hon. Gentleman as one of the Law
Officers of the Crown. I have seen it stated in some
popular work, that it was high treason for any sub-
ject of this realm to be in correspondence with
the Pope. Very soon after I came into the office
which I at present fill, a letter was addressed to
our most gracious Sovereign from the Pope, announcing
his accession to the Pontificate ; that letter was accom-
panied by another of a very complimentary character,
addressed to myself by the Pope's Secretary. I thought
my better course, under all the circumstances of the
case, would be, to obtain the opinion of of the Law
Officers of the Crown on the subject of the correspon-
dence ; and, in answer to an application which I directed
to be made, I received a letter, which, as I have referred
to it, I shall take the liberty of reading to the House.—
The letter is to the following effect :
a Sir, we have had the honour of receiving from Mr. Plants, a
l-ttee directed to his Majesty's Law Officers, stating that his
Holiness the Pope bad forwarded a communication to his
Majesty, announcing his elevation to the Papal Throne, and that
this communication has been accompanied by a complimentary
letter from Cardinal Gonsatel to his Majesty's Principal Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs; and, further, a question having
arisen in that Right Honourable Gentleman's mind, whether, In
the event of his noticing or replying to these communications, he
would be, in the opinion of his Majesty's Laws °Meets, accord-
ing to the existing law of the land, liable to a premunire; we are of
opinion, that ander the Act of Mt Elizabeth, c. I, sec. Ifi, any one
allowing or admitting thejurisdict she See of Rome in this realm,
is subject, for the first offence, to a premunire ;:and as in the present
case, the Pope claims to exereise authority over the Roman Catholic
Church in these countries, we are of opinion an answer to the letters
referred to might be interpreted as a sanction of these claims to
authority, and, consequently, that the party so communicating
might render himself liable to the penalty of premunire.
Signed) 8. R. GIFFORD.
"J. S. COPLEY."
(Great and protracted laughter). Now, Sir, I began to con=
alder with myself the penalties consequent upon premunire;
and, unlearned as I was. I found, upon enquiry, that a
man, attahned with a premunire, might be slain by any one.
—(Laughter). • Further Sir. that he was considered to be
out of the King's protection, and beyond that of the law for all
beneficial purposes—(A laugh), Ile was unable to bring his
action at law, and no one was to succour a person guilty --(Laugh-
ter).—According to Hawkins, Sir, I believe there are further
penalties counected with suretyship.
The MASTER of the ROLLS—That is not my opinion.
Mr. Secretary CANNING.—No; it is not the
Right Honourable and Learned Gentleman, but Burns;
Justice, which is my present authority.—(Great mer-
riment. (Such were some of the penalties incident to a
premuaire, which I, an ignorant and unlettered person,
naturally anxious to obtain infounation on the subject,
discovered. It was natural, Sir, I should look to the
penalties; and, looking to them, 1 resolved I would
not correspond with his Ilolines the Pope. Accord.
ingly, Sir, I did not once a single line in reply to the
communication, neither did I aitvie his Majesty to re-
turn any answer. And although, Sit,from that day mulls
I have been precluded from the possibility of offering
to his Holiness any explanation of my apparent want
of p oper attention and politeness ; yet I may now be
permitted to hore, that, in a more legitimate way, my
motive may now leach his ears—and without the fear
of a premunire—(Laughter). And with such a view
it is, 1 take this opportunity to assute that venerable
person that the omission on that occasion was dictated
by no intentional want of respect. Having ascertained,
Sir, that to correspond with the Pope was to put myself
in jeopardy, it was not likely that fict could in-
duce n.e, with all my admiration for the laws
which yet remained unrepealed, to attempt to convey
any communication to the Pope of Rome. No doubt a,
similar feeling pervades the bosom of my Right Hon.'
and Learned Friend on the subject; and yet, S:r, to the
Pope of Rome it is that my friend must come at last. if
be really desire. to effect that security which might be
expected to arise out of the nomination of the Roman
Catholic Bishops.—(Hear and laughter.) With respect
to that other branch, when I called on my Right 110.-.
Friend for his opinioo, and he answered by informing
ne, I would be putting my life and fortune both al kc
in jeopardy, if I corresponded with—
The MASTER of tae ROLLS.—I consider that the
opinion referred to was contained in a private letter—

(Cries of " Order, order; Chair chair r)—and I cs.
it the Right Hon. Secretary has more than a copy, U.,
original (so we understood the Right Hon. and Learned
Member to say) being in my own possession.
[Great confusion was created en the House by thin
interruption.]
Mr. Secretary CANNING—Sir, I:do not exactly:un-
derstand this interruption—(lncteased disorder).—It is,
in my opinion, must extraordinary—(Cries of -Heart
Order ! Chair !) —I assert, this is a public document, on
the production pf which depends the judgment to be pro..
nounced as to whether or not I have properly executed
my public duty, as a Minister of the Crown—(Heer.
hear). With this vire, I ca led for the opinion of hs
Nlajesty's Law officers, and received it, not in a non-
official, but in an official way ;—and that being the case,
have a right to refer to it—(Cheer,). Perhaps, Sir, I
might not have referred to the matter, if it were not foe
qj extradordinaty language made use of, not in this
Muse,. or in this discussion, but elsewhere, and on a
different occasion. I confess, Sir, I did not expect su -
language would be repeated here, much less that any
man .to 4I attempt to impeach my honour and
honesty. Though, Sir, I vow to GOD, if before
I came into this House, I were called upon to judge
from what quarter the attack would come, that qua
ter from which sit has pseceeded, would have basil
the very last from which I could have expected it—
(Hear). Well then, omitting this, to the most.,pain-
ful subject, I come to another branch, that of the
securities. Sir, it seems securing are required against
the private correspondence carried -on between the Catho-
lics of this country and the See of Rome.Be it remembereJ,
this correspondence is wholly of a spiritual nature, touch-
ing the granting of indulgences, and the transactions,
having reference to private life,and coming properly and
strictly under ecclesiastical cognizance. True, the se•
curities which I proposed failed along with the Bill,
of which they were to have formed a part: and
when they failed, my labours on the subject were
at an end). With respect to the superintendence of
private correspondences of Catholic Clergy with the
Church of Rome, those who thought, if these were
any such, that there was danger -to the State in
the marriage of second cousins, twice removed only
could be anxious for such a power. But, in fact, this
correspondence existed now with all its; dangers,
and, therefore, those persons must be mistaken who
thought there could be no security for the Protestant
Church unless these papal bulls were taken by the horns.
—(Hear, and laughter). With respect to securities, again
he would ask why, if these securities were necessary for
the safety of the country, were they not enacted, even
if no Catholic Petition were before Parliament ? The
Honourable Gentleman who addressed the House late,
in the debate last night, must be supposed to be a
new Member of that House—or he would have known
that the day of the Coronation Oath argument was
gone by.—[The Right Hon. Gentleman here read an
extract from a speech of Lord Liverpool, in which the
'Noble Lord expressed his opinion that the Corona-
tion Oath afforded no, obstacle to the removal of
the civil and religious disabilities under which the
Boman Catholic laboured.3 This, at least, was one.
bog-bear fairly disposed of, and no more ought
to be said of the Coronation Oath: Those who op-
posed the relief of the Catholics, proposed no measure
as a substitute for it. Nor did they condescend to state
what the dangers were which they so strongly appre-
hended. The office of Commander in Chief might, acs
cording to the law as it now stood, be filled ley a Cdtlao-
fie. The Elective Franchise, by the Act of 1795, was
conferred upon Catholics. The Catholics were rendered
missible to the Bar by the same Act, and they sill
knew how ably they availed thesnielves of the privikgs.
By the Act of 179$,Catholics were also admitted into the
d
army in every rank below that of the Staff,and no seen-
fities were required. But surely, then, when they were
[ afterwards admitted to the rank of Generals,some securi•
ides were required. No such thing. Why then this outcry
about securities, unless to excite alarm in the country,
or perhaps to hold up to public odium individuals who,
did not think it necessary to insist upon them ? Mr.
Pitt be would depose before any tribunal in the
world, had been decidedly favourable to the Eaten.
cipation of the Catholics. His opinion was accord-
ing to the testimony of the Tate Lord London-
derry given in that House, unchanged to his dying
day. He did not believe that at the time of the
Union there had been any promise to the Catho-
lics. But the hope of relief from all disabilities
had been nevertheless a main inducement to them to
acquiesce in that measure; and when they saw two-
thirds of the Members of that House from Ireland fa-
vourable to that relief, it would now appear that it
was only the Union which had prevented the question
from being settled many years ago. The appalling pic-
ture which bad been drawn of the state of Ireland in-,
duced him to think that the firmness of which the Hon.
Secretary to the Irish Goveanment had spoken, was a
quality which, if appli:d to this case, would be entitled to
change its name. He hoped, however, that the House'
' would not be insensible to the dangers of suffering the
question to remain in its present state. It was impossible
for any man to hear statements without being convinced
that it was both nasal.e and impossible to keep that coun-
try in its present situation. The Penal Code was born
sowed from the treatment of the Israelites by Phareaht
but it could not be safely persevered in, nor it! last ves-
tiges much longer retained. He was neitherthe champion
nor the accuser of the Catholic Priests. But he could,
not believe that all the charges which were made againei
them were well founded. fn. Right lion. Gentlemen'
here read copious extracts from the Catechism pub-
lished by the Roman Catholic Church, to shew that
they had nit wilfully, or for any sinister purpose,
garbled the language of Scripture, and particularly that
of the decalogue. He pledged himself only by his vote
to the coils (legation of the question, and if it should be
the opinion of the House that this question was one not
fit to he considered, which, by negativing the Resolu-
tion, they wouM declare, then he could only say that
the House of Commons was changed indeed—(The
Right Hon. Gentleman sat down at half-past four
rfeclock, amidst loud cheers from all parts of the House.)
Sir CHARLES FORBES persisted in speaking contrary to the
manifest inclination of the House, and, on the intercession of Mr.
Canning, was heard. The Hon. Member alertly stated, that his
ground for supporting the Resolution was, that it only went to the
consideration of the question, and pledged the House to nothing.
Sir F. BURL/ET C said a few words in reply, and beggeo to
change the word necessity for expediency, and to expunge the word
immediate.

The House then divided upon the Resolution as amentisd, when
there appeared—
Fur the Resolution 272
Against it 276
Majority against the Resolution . —4
When the numbers wets announced, the House rang with st.
clamations.

The House then adjourued at Fria o'CLocc, %tail :o morrow,
:this day).

.~ `~►

.._
THE

LONDON. •

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 7, 1827.
STOCK EXCHANGF., TWELVE O'CLOCK.
The debate oat the Catholic Claims, which caused great sensation,
know put at test, and the decision appears to have given general
satisfaction, It has bad also some little effect on the Coosa market
this morning. Consols, which left off yesterday at tisti 1, opened
ddi morning a Hi for the Account, when some heavy sales were
ellected by an eminent speculator of the House, to the amount o
between two Is three hundred thousand, which has in some degree(
checked the market, and Consols may at present be quoted at Mfg
to 1, and the same for Money.
lu the Foreign market, all South American Securities have int.
proved, In consequence of the favourable accounts from Mesice.
Current prices a Old Spanish 181 13, Mezlaus 6114 69, Colom-
bian 40, Peruvian St 35, Portuguese 74. Danish GOI OIL Greek
141 17, Russia* 841 871.

CITY, TWO O'CLOCK.
The Camel Market, wbleh was to the early pert of the tosealog
at $ for the Account, he. duce improved, and may be quoted
up to the present time at Silt i ; but there Is not much doles.--
Some anxiety le now felt; how the defeat will be received In Ire-
land, as Eta appiohenslons are entertained that it will tame maw

stir there.
is the Tomlin 1118rkel, South American Securities continue to
improve.
PRICK OF STOCKS AT TWO O'CLOCK.
BankAltock Shin. India Stock
3 per Can. Rai Shill.. .....-- Bonds 36 55
per Cent. ConB.llllll 111 . t Old Am:wide.
per C. MI _ .11000 Ittcheyer BM* 53 345
3$ per Cent. But OW - A3OO Ditto 55 58
4 per New 97$ i .1100 and MOO Ditto 35 57
4 per Cent. 1826, Shwa Advertised 54
Long Annuities Shut. Consols for Acct. SIII I 11 g
FORRION FUNDS. TWO O'CLOCK.
Brazilian Boads,s p Ct. 65$ 1 Hez.Bds.tBSs,slpCt.6Bi iii 9 1
Colombian Bowl., 6 p Ct. Do. Ace. 69 51 91 9
Ditto 8d5,1824, 40 g Peruvian Bonds 6 p C. 541 34
Do. Acct. 391 401 Ruse. Bds, 1825,5 pa 871 87
Ilex.Uosith, 5 per Ct. 57$ I Do. Acct. 87i
Ditto Acct. Span. Bonds 5p Ct. 15
BRITISH AND FOREIGN SHARKS. TWO O'CLOCK.
WAR& F• 10.
Anglo Mexican 100 SO 4211
Brazilian 100 SO 28
Potosi La Paz k Perna. Am. 50 6 .11 es Al 10s
Royal Irish 23 1 948 15s

The debate on the Catholic Claims was last night re-
sumed in the House of Commons. The discussion took
a more interesting turn than on the preceding evening,
and the supporters on both sides of the question were
warrn,eloquear, and, if not strikingly brilliant, animated
in no small degree. Sir J. Nzwroar, in a short and
pithy speech, repeated the sentiments be bad so often
and cordially expressed to the House upon similar oc-
casions. The Mittman of the ROLLS took a compre-
hensive view of the question, and insisted on the neces-
sity existing for some security against the exercise
of foreign influence over the Catholics. Mr. PLunizrr
followed the Right Hon. Gentleman, and was suc-
ceeded by Mr. Secretary PZEL, who, in a very elaborate
speech of nearly two hours, argued against the impo-
licy of suffering any further concession. Mr. Baou•use
followed. After some opposition to the motion from
Mr. GooLsoltw, Mr. CAITOITIO rose; the Right Hon.
Gentleman exhibited as much devotional attachment
to the best interests of Ireland as ever. After an ani-
mated debate, which lasted till five o'clock this morn-
ing, the Catholic Q.testion was lost by a majority of
four, the numbers being 276 to 272.

A letter, received this morning from Mayence, states,
that two Greeks of distinction had passed through that
city on their way to London, upon an important mis-
sion to the British Government. They spoke with con-
fidence of the affairs of their country, and stated that
there was no extremity which their countrymen were
not prepared to endure,—no danger, which they wtre
not dermined to brave, sooner than become again the
bondsmen of the cruel and intolerant Turks. They fur-
ther said, that Lord COCHRAN* would commence his
operations in support of the Greek cause in the
course of the present month, and that their
countrymen anticipated generally tire most signal
success from his Lordship's well known skill and
energy. We do not think that they will be deceived
either in their hopes of his co-operatics, or in their
' anticipations of its decisive effects, as recent letters
from the South of France speak positively of the de-
parture of the Noble and Gallant Lord for the Levant,
with the design of joining the Greeks.

The discussion on the Corn Question takes place to.
morrow in the House of Commons, and not on Friday,
as was in the first instance understood.
Monday Lord GRANVILLE transacted business at the
Foreign Offite, Downing-street.
The Duke of DiVONSHIREI during the last fortnight,
bas given a series of Dinner and Card Parties at Devonshire
House, to some of our leading N•bWty ; and this day his Grace
will give a sumptuous entertainment.
The 3d &rime of the 21st Regiment of Infantry arrived on the
Ist Instant, on board the Vittoria transport, at Cowes, from the
Leeward Islands.
Yesterday the River presented a singular appearance:
the navigation upwards being nearly stopped by the uncommon oc-
currence of the wind having overpowered the tide. Scarcely any of
tile coal lighters could get up from below bridge with their cargoes,
and several were sunk. It should hare been high water at eight
o'clock yesterday morning, but at that time the tide had not risen
more than three feet. Such was the effect of the dreadful South
West hurricane, that craft proceeded downwards through London
Bridge against Ink, with the greatest ease.
Opsaa Nawi—Signor GALLI, the celebrated Basso
Cantante at Puts, is shortly expected at the King's Theatre, to re-
place Signor ZucHxua, whose leave of absence is at the eve of ex-
piring. Madame Balm, a distinguished contralto, is arrived, and
will speedily make her her debut. Mademoiselle Tom, a young
Lady from Turin, in whom talent and beauty seem to be combined,
has been induced to visit England by Signor Poem, and an Opera
is preparing for her first appearance in this country. Expectation
is highly excited. The grand maestro, Rooms, will be here in a
month to preside at the performance of his beautiful Opera of
Iw Siege dr Curynthe, the success of which has been unprecedented
at Paris ; and last, though not least, Madame PASTA in a few weeks
will once more delight her numberless admirers. Such arrange.
Manta require nu comment, and spew the indefatigable seal of the
management of our Italian Opera.

The FIN h:tween Wallace and Savage took place yesterday ow
Finch.ley CO4IIIIOO. Notwithstanding the unfavourable state of the
weather, the spectators assembled to very considerable numbers.
the fight lasted two hours, and was *strums:ly well contested.—
rtity fought 123 rounds, at the end of which Wallace gave its,
and bavast Was declared the victor.

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