Star.
London, England, 1829-02-27 00:00:00

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'Armagh,llyniona. Antrim. arson% Loritihm, einy.
'more. Cat herr y. Kildare—A parish in Montruserithire;
somber re the county of Cavan t.Deeciiihrie4 the town
of 'Sall tjamesduff.
Mr. GEORGE MOORE presented a Midas, respec-
tably signed, against Emancipatidis, from the Protestant
Noblemen, Clergymen, Gentry, and Landowners of the
eoontr and city of Limerick.
Mr. LLOYD said the petition *as signed by several
'respectable individuals. but it did not represent one
'tenth of the property of the county and city of Lime-
'rick; and be was confident, that since the Ministers had
declared their intention of removing Catholic disabili-
ties, sht most respectable persons whose names were
attached to the petitions did not wish to obstruct that
sueasOlt.
Mr. TRANT said, he had been acquainted with the
'comity of Limerick many years, and he could assure
'the House no change had Wren place there in conse-
Nusence of his Majesty's Speech. He had that morning
•scsiesrJ a letter front the Secretary of the Limerick
'Brunswick Club, imploring him to °pp's', as much as
possible, all further concessions to the Catholics.
Mr. GEORGE MOORE said be could assure Hon.
Members that the petitioners bad not changed their
opinions; and it ohm were any Protestants in Iceland
that bad, they ought to state it. He believed the 00-
*sion against Emancipation was stronger than ever.
, Mr. HUME mast protest against the doctrine of the
Hon. Member for Dublin calling upon all those who
wets favourable to the Catholic Minis to publicly stalls
their opinions. Silence gave consent, and be took it
toe.graated. that those who were silent were in favour of
Emencipation—s(tlear). The Petition, was then brought
up and read.
Mr. MOORE presented Petittons from the Protes-
tant inhabitants of Drogheda. Youghal, and some town
in Armagh, against further concessions to the Catholics.
-Ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. MOORE presented a Petition from Sir Charles
Mallet, Bart. praying the House to take into conside-
ration some plan for the amelioration of the Poor of
Leland. Toe Honourable Member observed, that he
had not the honour of a personal acquaintance with the
worthy Baronet, and was therefore not prepared to pro-
nounce upon the merits of the Petition; but as the peti-
tioner was actuated solely by benevolence and charity,
be trusted it would meet with every attention. He
weed that it should. be printed.
Mr. BARING wished to know whether It was the custom of
the Meow to print private Petitions of this fort?
Mr. 1.1001(11 urged kit torest, mad it was ordered to be printed.
Mr. WELLS prenatal a Petition front the Minister
and Congregation of Maidstone, and one from Kings.
town, in dm parish of Maidstone, against any further
concession to the Roman Catholics. The Petitions from
Os town of Maidstone were numerously and most re-
ageetably signed, not procured by going from house to
hope. He had read the Petitions, and lie concurred
_oast heartily with the sentiments the petitioners ex-
ptessed. They were brought forward in consequence
of the petitioners being abandoned by the desertion of
those they considered as guardians of the Protestant in-
sweats. They theiefure prayed that Parliament would
not grant further concessions to the Roman Catholics.
especially to admit them to this Hoist. For himself
he was an advocate for toleration, and was therefore
afraid of the intolerant spirit of the Roman Catholics
prevailing in the essential pan of the Government of
this country. es' ty Roman Catholic Members might
govern the House of Commons. He would rather have
a Popish King than a Popish Parliament, sod would
therefore resist the measures ploposed by the adminis-
tration. - He disapproved of the mode of bringing for-
eratd the. measure after. the King's Speech. which to.
nmasendedit for the deliberation of Parliament; but
'k was afterwards captained that it was with the King's
consent it was to be introduced. This he considered as
unconstitutional. He should maintain his opinion, and
support it by his vote, though it was to be called fac-
tions. base, or inhumes. This be thought was more
the language of the House of Stuart than of the House
of Binnswick. Whilst be continued to feel that the
disabilties could not be removed without danger to the
Protestant Constitution, be should certainly oppose the
measure.
Mr. ROBARTS said that, notwithstanding the peti.
Lion which his Hon. colleague presented, there were, to
his own knowledge. a great number of very respectable
ibdivideals, indeed, men of the highest rank in Maid-
stone, who were in 'favour of Catborie Emancipation;
and he bad no doubt that when the proposed measures
should be carried into effect they would give very go'
aural satisfaction.
Mr. COLLETT presented Petitions, from the ROM,
sad Omeorepadopol the peddle( Meador. apd two other parish*
In the amity af neod sad aostroso a pod* In Haaspehiro,
orient farther eetweeders to the Remus Cathodes.
Pasidasa or the seas. offset swore peomeed Mr. Tamer, from
*TOM
ileredreden. fa the wag et this peddles
Melton. was stood by every todi is the
tali* het two)—by Seism Lsweabe. from Kendal ;
mamas, free Kinaftwelge. horn de Arehtlesosory of
sad from three other plasm
Weed NIEL gemmed throe Peddoas against soy farther
to the loom Catholics—ma frost the Arck4easeory
of elgool by am peewee; sad see fres lanes, to the
by Sid penewk
•Ws T. LITIkeIrDG peesemed Suer. Petitions-4nm Wel.
Naito% boo Bub Samoa. from Peeddread. sod frees Taws; all
wines further cetweedeas to die Raman Cathedra.
Mr. WILSON, in rising to present a Petition against
further concessions to the Roman Catholics. said, that
en the appointment, of the present. Administration be
bad determined to be setisfied with his Royal Master's
abases and he had then. declared that be would give,
hismapport to the Ministers, but it was only when they
acted. tussistently. He could not now,. consistently
with his dal, to his .cpistittlents, or consistently with
his ow& .Caoscience,. rapport them. , The appoint?
AMU tills Royal. Master, was good enough for him.
lle_ll4. not cite whether;' toe Ministers were Whigs
Sr Terries. Whigs and Tories were all alike to him—
(Loud laughter). He would stand by the Government
Merely measure but the present. He bore no.animosity
to the Roman Catholics; for many of them be bad a
high respect; but he thought it was inconsistent with
common sense, if common sense was to have any, part
In their deliberations, that-Catholics should legislate for
a Piotestant country. He 'repeated that he regretted
be could not pull with the Ministers on this occasion.
/bey had been chosen by his Royal Master, and that
wasenough for him: He did not care whether they
were Whigs or Tories. He would stand by the Con.
stitution. He would support it on the staff .)d. He
galled on all true Prote.tants to stand bsv rard and
m ',eet the sacred barrier sorbich their ancestors had
otected for the safety of the Church and State. He
-was no true Protestant who n ould sit quiet and
allow that sacred barrier to be pulled down. He
hoped io Gun, and trusted he would not be. deceived,
ithat .Pa vrosace would .frotity his .Royal Master's
rears to stand out against he torrent which was about
lonneemp t.w Stare--(Laughter). He was sorry forthe
. li n. Members who had so feverish a cause to support
.eattld oat listen iltietly to his arguments. He,
l'lot‘sht Alinistars *old pause.... demo timesbetorc
tf.ey took inch a fatal step. lie was himself a staunch
riolgesot. There was uo Man bad a more rigid resold


Fru Church sad State. ether& was no aria more. WA
He would stick to theConstitation through thick and thin.
He had every respect for Roman Catholics as indivi-
duals. but if his own father was a Roman Catholic be
would not suffer him to legislate for Protestants. It
was inconsistent with common seise. No man felt

ante for the distressesof the people of Ireland than he
did, end if any substantial measure was proposed for'
their relief he world join hand in hand with Ministers
—join himself to the yoke, and endeavour to amend the
Bill. He felt for the suffering of the Irish but Catlinlic
I Emancipation was not a remedy for those sufferings.
He put it to this House, what did this outcry for EMAD•
cipation mean? It only meant chat the Papists wanted
to possess themselves of the temporalities of the Protes-
tant Church. That was what was meant by Catholic
Emancipation—(Hear. and laughter). Any Hon. Mem.
her who had read the speech of Mr. O'Connell, the
leader of the Irish parliament, on the Wedne.day be.
fore the meeting of Parliament, must come to the
same conclusion. Much as he disliked the political
principles of Mr. O'Connell, there was one part cf
his character which be admired. He did not beat
About the bush—he came forward boldly, and told
what he wanted. There was no difficulty in gathering
from what he said that he would never be satisfied
until he got inside the bar of that House, and mowed
down the Protestant Church—(Laughter). He re.
pea'ed that such was the avowed object of Mr.
O'Connell. and he (Mr. Wilson) thought hm one of the
finest fellows he ever met, merely because he openly
avowed his opinions and told what bewanted (Laughter).
What did his Majesty's Ministers mean by the plan,
now in contemplation ? The system proposed was
like robbing Peter to pay Paul. To satisfy the
Catholics. the Protestant Church was to be sacrificed.
As to the poor of Ireland, it was merely deluding them
Ito say that their distress would be mitigated by admit-
ting Roman Catholics to Parliament. fle would inform
the poor of Ireland that the same pauperism and distress
which now eaisted would exist alter emancipation as it
was called, was granted—(Heat). He (Mr. Wilson)
had great confidence in the Noble and Gallant Duke at
the head of his Majesty's Government, and he trusted
to GOD that the country would not be deceived in him.
He hoped, if the Noble Duke pulled Awn the existing
securities with one hand, he would establish something to
support the Protestant Church with the other hand. As
for his own part, he mould wait until the curtain was
hauled up, and he should see what new light had broken
in upon his Majesty's Ministers; for his own part be
could see none—(Laugher). The Protestant commu-
nity were now roused, and he was sure they would not
allow themselves to be cramped from expressing their
sentiments. The sentiments he had now uttered in a
homespun manner were his conscientious sentiments;
and those sentiments be would never he.itate to avow.
Considering the course which the Right Ho:mused,
Secretary for the Home Department pursued sawn
Mr. Canning was in power, Isis late conduct had ex.
cited suspicion throughout the country. He (Mr. Wib
son) was as much thunderstruck when the Right Ho-
msorable Gentleman endeaveured to explain the King's
h as if be had knocked him down in the middle
the floor. This was a strong expression, but it con-
veyed no more than he felt. The country was thunder.
struck at the conduct of the Right Honourable Gentle-
man ; but the feeling of the country had not been roused,
and his Majesty's Government would find that nine-
tombs of the Protestant community were opposed to
the admission of Catholics to political power. What-
ever course other Memberothought proper to pursue, he
(Mr. Wilson) would do his duty to Iris constituents end
his country to the best of his ability, withoto fear, sod.
without fee or reward ; and he would conclude with a
homely couplet. and we—
Whilst I eau handle stick or stone
• I shall uphold the Church and Throne,"
(Hear and laughter). The Hon. Member then presented
a petition from the, inhabitants of the city of York,
against any further concessions to the Roman Catho-
lics.—The petition was ordered to be printed.
Sit FRANCIS BLAKE preowned a Petition front Berwick-
g:Lreed, praying for the rejeal of the home and window tact.
to Ile on the table.
Lord GEORGE BENTINCK presented a Petition from the
Vulgarise Dimmers of Itag's Lyon In favour of the Roman Cm
tholle
Viscount CLEMENTS presented a similar Petition from the
latish of &bridge, country of Leitrim.
Mr. ROBERT PA LM KR presented a Petition from the la.
Inhalants of the borough of Reading. against any further Comes-
lions to the Catholics.
Mr. MONCK crested that the House would permit
him to say a few words oo the presentation of this
Petition. He c old not but congratulate the friends of
religious liberty in the great progress which this ques.
Akin bad recently made in the town and vicinity of
Reading. This was proved by the paucity of signatures
attached to the present petition. Though the movers
and promoters of it had left it for a fortnight in the
most public places in the town, and had used all their
endeavours to get it numerously signed, by advertising
for signatures in the newspapers, they had not been
able to obtain, out of the numerous population ia that
town and neighbourhood more than 600 signatures—
(Hear). ta opposition to the prayer of that petition he
could say. that a great majority of the most influential
persons in that district were—he would not say in
favour of Catholic Emancipation, but—in favour of
heaving the whole question to the exclusive consideration
of Parliament. As he was now on his legs, he would
venture to pay the hued& tribute of his applause to his
Majesty's Minions for their determination to make this
a Government question.
Mr. FYSHE PALMER—I shall make a shorter
speech even than that which you have just heard from
my Hon. Colleague; and I merely make it to say that
it is surprising that a petition so mildly worded. signed
se it is by the Mayor, • and by the senior Alderman of
the Borough of Reading, should only have received
600 ,signatures, when it lay for two market-days
ready. • to.. be signed by the numerous population
which regularly Rocks to Reading market. The House
will recollect that the petition is signed by 600 persons.
inhabitants of the tows and its vicinity. When I reflect
on this, I feel myself justified in saying, that the opi-
nions of the inhabitants of the town and neighbourhood
of Reading, on this qnestion, has changed, very ma-
tonally. within the last few years.—Laid on the table.
Mr. SLANET brought in a Bill to regulate the Payment of
Labourers' Wages out of the Peon' Rates.—Read a first tiros.
Lord LOWTHER postponed Ms motion for Consolidating the
Laws relating,to Wpods and Forests, until Tuesday senniglite
Mr. LSROWNLOW rose calming forward his motion
relative to the drainage of bogs in Ireland. That there
was a great unemployed population in Ireland no per-
son could deny. Millions in that country were in the
deepest. distress; is this country the lowest were not
without the necessarie9, and even some of the comforts
of lite. This was not so in Ireland, lot there they had
mo system of poor laws. It was proved before the Irish
.Committee, that in Ireland there were millions who rose
in the morning without knowing hew or Where they
were.to procure subsistence for the day. The coon.
quence of this state of things was emigration to a large
amount. This was as much an. English as an Irish
question; for unless some remedy were applied, the
consequence would be that the tate of wages in Eng.

, .
land Wiseira ieme to the"einte laid its In Wand, sad
be productive of the same distress. It appeared that
there were In Ireland three million acres of land fully
capable of improvement and cultivation. Teem wastes,
however, were, from want of exertion, every day pies
from bad to worse. His object was to the ace-
dot of a court. to be called the Omni:Mr:nage, the
duty of which wr old be to take cognisance of ad mat-
ten connected with drainage, and having powers similar
to those of the Commissioners of Sewers in England.
The Honorable Gentleman concluded by moving for
leave to bring in the Bill.
Mr. LYTTLETON seconded the motion. He was
aware, from actual observation, that the plan proposed
was not impracticable, for the estate of his Honourable
Friend (Mr. Browolow) presented one of the finest spe-
cimens of successful drainage which be ever saw in that
or any other country. ,
Mr. LESLIE FOSTER concurred generally in the
views of the Hon. Member, but he thought dime would
be many difficulties in carrying the plan into execution.
The want of alnowledge of the boundaries of estates
was one obitaele to the scheme; the right of common
was another difficulty; but this might pet haps be got
rid oft, by giving to the tenants some portion of the bog
in lieu of their right of common. He should prefer
also, instead of the course proposed by the Hon.
Member (Mr. Brownlow), the appointment of one or
two able and intelligent engineers.
Mr. SLAMSv and air. WAIII4IIIIIIOII spoke in favour of the snedoe.
Lord F. L. GOWER thought the best way would be
to move for a Committee. It was impossible not to me,
by the three reports on this subject, that the greatest
advantage would be derived from the drainage it carried
into effect. In the triangle tales by the Engineers io
the centre of Ireland, there were not less than 230.000
acres of morass, no part of which was less 1620114 feet
above the adjoining country.
Mr. GRANT expressed his approbation of the mea-
sure. It must at first be productive of retef, but the
same inconvenience of over population must again arise
unless some change were effected in the habits of tt e
people. His only obj-ct in rising was to gaud the
Hon.. against forming over-sanguine hopes from any,
plan of this kihd.
Mr. WALLACE slid be doubted whether this mat-
ter was yet ripe for legislation.
Mr. BROWNLOW said, if this Bill shoOld be sac-
cessful, it was his intention to follow it tip by an Enclo-
sure Bill. This would remove meet' the principal ob-
jections of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. L
Foster). Hoshould propose, if the Bill was permitted
to be read a second time, to have it referred to a Cora■
mittee up stair;.
After a few words In explanation IN= Mr. L Forraa, lease
was even to brims in the BM.
CATHOLIC PETITIONS.
Mr. O'NEILL broueht forward his motion, " That
a list be fureished weekly to the Members of dui Hots.,
containing the names of all persons-in Great Britain
from whom Petitions for or against Roman Catholics are
forwarded to the House, and stating the number of
signature& to each Petition, and the amour t of the pa
potation of such places according to the last census;
and that the first list shall include the Petitions al-
ready presented." He considered it was important
that the House should have this information; and he
expressed his astonishment at the changes that had
taken pl ice on this question. He could not under-
stand how the justice of that could be seen hi 1829,
which was deniei in 1827-111 the cinwnstances
being the same. It was now sought to bleak dawn
the noble structure of our Constitution—and that
from some temporary notions of expediency and secu-
rity. Such grounds for agreeing to the concessions were
unworthy of Legislators. Those who were of the other
side, however, took to themselves all the eloquence,
talent, and integrity; and also all the cardinal virtues.
The plan contemplated by his motion was requisite. He
added, that there had been 120 Petitions presented
against, and 220 in favour of, the Catholic Claims, but
as to the number of signatures they had no means of
judging. • He wished to know what were the real sen-
timents of the people. They could not give the Pro-
testants the vantage ground they had lost, but they
might place in their hands the constitutional weapons
of Petitions, to save them from the disgrace of sot-
rendering at discretion. He concluded' with moving
his Resolution.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER'S ob-
jection to this motion was, that if it was agreed to, upon
all possible subjects, a weekly comparison must be
made of the petitioners who applied to Parliament.
Numbers t f signatures could not be the real criterion
of public opinion. Intelligence and talent should not
be weighed against numbers; and he was prepared to
say, that the weight assigned to Petitions would make
against the object of the Hon. Member. For instance.
the Petition of Mr. Stockdale was not to be weighed
against that from the parish of St. James's—(Hear).
Again, would he put Petitions from the Clergy on the
same footing as those from mete numbers? On every
public principle be must altogether oppose the motion.
Mr.TRANT could not see any advantage that would
attend the passing of the Honourable Gentleman's mo-
tion. He objected to it as it might form a prece-
dent; mad he also regretted the notion that had been
circulated, that upon the question now agitated the
Aristocracy ought aloes to be considered as compe-
tent to form an opinion. The great m gas of the peo
pie, who were sow receiving more ethic rtion than for-
merly, conceived that the measure about to be intro-
doted was closely connected with their religious and
civil liberty. If the Right Hon. Gentleman did not
pay attention to the observatilns which had been made,
the measure might produce very fatal consequences.
He would remind the House of a speech made by Mr.
Canning on the subject. That Statesman bad said, that
the question ought never to be made a Government
question. It ought never to be proposed by Ministers,
unless it had first worked its way through the Legisla-
ture, and through the amour/ ; that the mass of resist-
ance, although inert, might be fearfully moved by any
attempt to introduce emancipation. He trussed the
prophecy of Mr. Canning might not be fulfilled. He
bad conceived that an atterapt like the present would
produce greater evils than a divided Cabinet, or than
any that now existed.
Mr. aN EILL denied that this motion could be drawn
into precedent, for no change similar to that now to be
introduced, could be anticipated. The motion would
not detract from the value of any person's vote or sig-
nature. It would show the people how far their Re.
presentatives bad adhered to their pledges of support-
ing their wishes. He would withdraw his motion, as it
did not meet with general concurrence. The Motion
was tt,en withdrawn.
The House proceeded to the Orders of the Day.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the
Reduction of Fees upon Tomah, Hoed Bills. and an Address to
his Majesty, praying tbat their anima WOK be made good Ns
the man of the Home, to wit= they bad been ancient mak-
menu of Aim
Ik. LITTLETON eFitilds oginbsdea at the savarre
la whisk Me Itiabt Elsa. bed essided es die papll.
wild' be bad %Miele k day es sad, is the last desduk
lbe whet Orden d Day being aided, si soh AM= the
Nem edivereed.