Star.
London, England, 1818-03-13 00:00:00

last they athounted only 157".% The licence; to
cieer,- engaged in era same trade had fallen of in
t itteee Within the last half year, indeed, there
~ccit thrown at ofthe trade vs> less than 189
teinera a. 28 taw:es, 41 oil-dressers, and 12 parch-
;at-makers. This, indeed, appeared from the ac-
wilts ea the table. which also showed that the trade
vl,l salt: dly declined ever since the additional tax
Ls imposed, notwithstanding tie last five years and
;:alf included the years of the late war, when its
cis:a:lnv:WA was the greatest ; and showed the num-
" r ci waster manufacturers which bad been driven
eet f the trade, up to January sth, 1818—and the
of tan yards which remained unoccupied.
stated, that those yards which were still occu-
;ea yew act in full work, and that the trade had
qual to one-ieventh, instead of having in-
,,t,,! vsi:h th.-! population of the country, as it had
yl ei before the imposition of the double tax.
F. • .c.re-,te of this trade, the Noble Lord deduced
- t:ie diminution of the import of foreign
• • iv'ii•hdinlinution was nearly equal to one half
qtlantity imported in IS 2. When the import of
ea rex material used in this trade, had thus fallen
%:". it wee. he thelight, be inferred that that trade
taken off also. Was it possible then, that
cousidcrat:-. r•-•an would put t 1:: receipt of a com-
e...iePly insiani!icant proportion of revenue in corn-
ein with such consequences as this additional tax
• :aced. But the falling off in the revenue itself,
4 from this tex, furnished a proof of the depres-
of the !aide, especially since the peace of 1814.
awa:e that the produce of the tax had rather
the last year, but that advance
sequence of the increased plan-
posed of in that rear by those who
(tie stock, in order to get out of
ir. The whole produce of this tax
,0001. and be it recollected, that
was imposed in war—that it was
which was to cease neon the re-
But was the sum which he had
ould reconcile the House to the
ruin, of a great branch of our
was calculated that not less than
,3 been already deprived of cm-
7pression of this trade, in conse-
itional tic, and that the loss thus
!sources of the country, exceeded
half. El•arely then the House
motion, and not allow ary tem-
revenue to operate aeainst the
of trade. Of what consequence,
isual amount of revenue, if it en-
ity, or menaced the prosperity of
Lich all revenue was derivable.—
h, indeed, depended upon the sta-
aad he trusted that that stability
risked to answer any temporary
In proposing to repeal this ob-
ce could not imitate the example of
lend (Mr. Calcraft) upon the sub-
ix, by holding out the promise of
a in his view, it was in the power
;elves to provide that which was
for taxation, namely, by such a
expenditure and public establish-
teir duty to make. The Noble Lord
)ying for leave to bring in a Bill'
Le additional duty on Leather.
,Ll.olt of the EXCHEQUER said,
of the Noble Lord were for the ap-
cmnhittee, and that the House were
to it, he should not object to its
could not concur in the present
called upon the House to decide
ititioners, without any inquiry as
it allegations. The result of the
statement was only calculated to
; to the operation of the Tax to
:ers objected, although that state-
- the grounds which appeared in a
iy the Petitioners themselves. Yet
Is he (the Chancellor of the Exche-
a was not warrantable to conclude
:ich the motion referred had ope-.
ee to produce that depression of
the Noble Lord had alleged ; to •
eever, he could not subscribe, for
e the let that the duty was pro-
•ed from the returns of the last
id produce of the duty, was indeed
icrae consumption of leather had
.:awleick exceeding the additional
upon any leather exported. The
;ere, of the Noble Lord, that the
fallen off more than any other
einufacture, since the peace, was
On th- contrary, indeed, of all the
ifiel neat by the extraordinary de-
the trade under consideration had
;lie peace. If then thi; trade was
tax, it would be unfair to demand
tax, unless it were clearly shewn
would improve the trade. end this
lid not even attempt t.o rake out.
toe Leather Tax the Right Honour-
stated to he 201e000/. ie 1777,
1, 391•,000/. in 1810, a-bk:: advance
inereaed demand through ',he war,
thin the last year. From this state-
• that the produce of the Leather
in off, and win nee did it appear
trade had fallen off? This trade
a considerably advanced through
d,enand per leather, in consequence
ce77,lti-a of that demand must
he tiode ie some degree. It was,
.!or. al: of the seventy-five baelc-
iie Noble Lei d had stated to latee
fi e year: after the additior.a.
in conseritience, as the Noble Lord
exeaence of that tax, no less than
I place within the last two years,
cc aclusio.n of the peace. As to the
ex's, that did not exceed eieht
ar after the tax was imposed.—
namely, in 181 le the reduction
odcrahle, but that was owing not
fele additiorel tax, but to the po-
as the tines, wiiich produced a
t•-:.r demand for leather, in k onse.
irranaean of the war through the
Now with regard to the
ioa uh foreiea lades, that was to be
two t-eiiials....eirst, the disturbed

Istate of South America. and the division of the trade
( I itueuos Ayres with other nations, and especially
with the United States, which trade we were enabled
to monopolize through the war. But the fact that the
Leather Trade had not fallen off, was, he thought, ob-
vious, frmi the advance which had taken place in the
price of leather, that advance being at present, com-
pared tc. the price in 1815, no less than 2d. a pound.
l'here was a remarkable fact connected with this
trade, which had lately come. to his knowledge, and
that was, that though there was only one steam en-
gine employed throughout the whole of the trade in
London, before the Tax objected to by the Petitio-
n,:rs was imposed, there were at present no less than
five such engines in employment. This fact he
tf.ought a proof of the advance of trade, and this
proc,t was not weakened by the number f persons
who had withdrawn from the trade, because that
had taken place on the part of persons of small ca-
pital, who could not maintair a successful competi-
tion with those of large capital—who could, for in-
stance, afford to employ steam engines ? and thus
contrive to manufacture more leather. But to make
out his argument, that the additional tax had not
operated to produce any depression in this trade,
lie stated that there was a branch of the leather
trade which was not subjected to that tax, and yet
this branch had fallen off since the imposition of that
tax more than one half; that is from 130,00016. in
1812, to 40,000 in the last year. He meant the
oiled dressed leather,' and this he regarded as a con-
elusive proof that any•depression in the leather trade
was not the coitsequence of the additionaltax referred
to in the motion. here the Right Hon. Gentleman
referred to a circular letter which be said was lately
sent to the persons concerned in the leather trade,
exhorting them to have Petitions pouted in from all
quarters into the House by this day, in order that
the trade might avail itself of what the writer called
the present favourable moment for producing a re-
peal of the tax. This letter the Right Hon. Gentle-
man said, was dated on the sth instant. -But why
its author or authors could deem the present a fa-
vourable moment for the repeal of the tax, he could
not pretend to divine. He, however, hoped that
Gentlemen would feel the duty which they owed to
their country and to their own character, and con-
sider that the present time was peculiarly unfavour-
able for the reduction of the revenue. There were at
present petitions before the House praying the repeal
of no less than three millions and a half of taxes, to
some of which it was deemed jest and expedient to
concede, and especially to those for the repeal of
the window tax in Ireland. The reduction of our
establishments and expense to any material extent,
was quite impracticable, consistently with just poli-
tical considerations. The Noble Lord himself indeed
proposed only the reduction of £lBO,OOO per annum,
through the diminution of our military force ; and as
to the common call for reduced expense, he referred
to the result of the abolition of sinecures last year, to
shew that such a call was too often founded in error.
Where then was any reduction to be thought of that
could justify any material reduction of our taxes, es-
pecially considering the deficiency of the annual re-
venue compared to the annual expenditure? Under
such circumstances he trusted the House would not
accede to a motion which proposed to deprive the
State of no less ;Pan 260,0001. per annum—that it
would consider if it thus proceeded to reduce the es•
tablished revenue, it would have no alternative but
to choose between bankruptcy and disgrace or the
imposition of the Property Tax.
Mr. CURWEN deprecated the reference of this
question to a Committee, as the result must be recol-
lected of such a reference upon a former occasion ;
&elating his resolution, notwithstanding the threat
of the Property Tax, to support the motion, and
vote for the repeal of this mischievous tax. As to
the employment of the steam engines, the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman's conclusion from that circum-
stance was quite erroneous, as such employment was
merely the effect of the reduced price of those arti-
cles of late. But with respect to the reduction of
expense, the Right Hon. Gentleman professed to
think such reduction quite impracticable. In this,
however, he, in common, he fully believed with the
I whole country, differed from that Right Honourable
Gentleman's opinion ; and also from his statement
that any solid reduction had yet taken place. He
concurred, however, with the Right Hon. Gentle-
man as to his view of the result of the abolition of
sinecures, for no saving had arisen, or was meant to
arise out of that abolition. That indeed was care-
fully penvided against by the Act itself, which caused
the abolition, and it was now quite clear that the ex-
ample of Lord Camden was not likely to be imitated.
Mr. BENSON said, that he had always supported
Ministers when, for the public security, it was neces-
sary to strengthen their hands. On the present oc-
casion he should vote for the motion of the Noble
Lord, because those concerned in the Leather trade
knew well that the motion for a Committee would
only tend to produce delays and impediment, and
would, in the end, be attended with no beneficial re- I
suit. The whole amount of the produce of the addi-
tional duties was 170.0001. and for such a trifling
sum, he trusted the Right Hon. the Chancellor of
the Exchequer would not continue to hug it, when he
considered the injury it inflicted on the manufacture.
Lord CASTLEREAGH stated, that his Majesty's
Government were solicitous to afford every practi-
cable relief ; but he feared, that if the House went
hand over head, where so many claims would be,
made from various other branches of trade, great!
prejudice would ensue. He recommended the adop- '
tion of a Select Committee, to which the Petitions
on thetable should be referred, and moved an Amend-
ment to that effect.

Mr. BROUGHAM trusted his Noble Friend would
persevere in pressing his motion. Two Committees
had already sat, every information was recorded, and
no other result would follow from the adoption of
the amendment, but farther delay. His opinion was
now the same as that he delivered six years ago—it
was a tax upon a necessary of life, and was therefore,
a solecism in finance—a complete arithmetical blun-
der. lie feared, however, from what had fallen
from the Right Honourable the Chancellor of the Ex-
chequer, that in place of intended relief it was the
intention of that Gentleman to place his long hand
on another branch of the Leather Trade that had hi-
therto escaped the grasp of taxation. The oil buff
leather trade, said he, has not been taxed, and it
was new in a depressed state. No doubt the Chan-
(.3l:,r of the EALiteiver thought that his interference

with it would certainly make that branch of trade
revive, which was now druoping.
Lord COMPTON spoke in favour of the motion,
and denied that the Tax WAS productive.
Colonel WOOD said, wheeler it was productive,
or not, would be best ascertained in a Committee.—
Ile was one of those who thought the Legislature
began at the wrung end, in shifting the Property
Till from themselves and leaving other Taxes that
directly pressed upon the lower orders. Comparing
the severities of both, he would prefer a relief from
the Salt Duties, and the continuation of the Tax
upon Leather.

General GASCOYNE recollected the impediments
the former had to contend with. To agree now to
the Amendment would only lead to delay, and ulti-
mately to preclude relief. He should therefore vote,
for the Noble Lord's motion.
Mr. C. CALVERT denied that the additional du-
ties had been productive. The Right Honourable
the Chancellor of the Exchequer had proceeded on
a wrong average.
Mr. MARRYATT stated the distress of his con-
stituents in the Borough of Sandwich, who were con-
nected with the Leather Manufacture. lie the parish
where these people principally resided, the tom-
Rate was 20s. in the pound—in the other parish it
was only 12s.
Mr. LUSIHNGTON contended, that the distress
of the manufacturers was attributable to the cessa-
tion cf the war demand. He denied that those en-
gaged in the trade were unanimous in their wish for
the repeal of the War Duties. There were two
branches of the Export Trade that were averse to
the repeal of those duties, accompanied as that re-
peal must necessarily be by the repeal of the draw-
backs; of which objection, the fact that the war duty
was three-halfpence and the drawback two-pence,
afforded an easy solution.
Sir TI lOM AS ACKLAND spoke in favour of the
high duties on Leather.
After a few words from General GAscovxe, Mr.
LCSIIINOTON, and Mr. BENSON, in explanation, the
House divided—For the Amendment, S4—Against
it, 94--Majr,rity, 10.
- . _ _ _

Lord ALTHOXP'S Motion, for leave to bring in the
Bill to repeal the Duties, was then put and agreed to.

PAROCHIAL VESTRIES AND RATES.

Mr. STURGES BOURNE rose to make his pro-
mised Motion for leave to bring in two Bills for the
Regulation of Palish Vestries, &c. which he prefaced
by a few Observations illustrative of the purposes he
had in view. The object of his first Bill (anions mi-
nor regulations) vAkuld be to give additional influ-
ence to persons in Parish Vestries in proportion to
their contribution to the Poors Rates. This proposi-
tion was not new to the House, and he was not aware
that any objection had been made to it; and as far
as he could learn from communications with all parts
of the country, it was a provision that would be
very generally acceptable. The first object of his
second Bill would be a provision to enable parishes
of considerable extent to appoint Select Vestries for
the management of their concerns; the orders of
which should not be over-ruled by any single Masis-
trate ; but only by two et. more. The next object
!would be a prevision qualifying persons having con-
siderable property in the parith, though resident at
a short distance out of it, to become overseers. Ano-
ther object would be to enable parishes to appoint an
assistant overseer, with a salary. The next provision
was one of considerable importance, although only
in furtherance of the existing law ; it was to make
provision for carrying into better effect the Statute of
Elizabeth, as far as regarded setting to work the
' children of parents who were unable to maintain
them. This was, at the present moment, a matter
of the utmost importance; for a practice most inju-
rious had become prevalent to a very great extent,
both in manufacturing and in agt icultural districts,
which ought by all means to be counteracted—that
of lowering the wages of labour, and making good
the deficiency out of the Poors' Rates. He could
not refrain from naming one parish in particular, in
which this practice had been carried further than in
any other that he had heard of. He had received in-
formation that in the parish of Botesdale, in Suffolk,
the price of labour had been reduced to 6d. a day !
So that to a labourer, the expense of maintaining
whose family was 20s. or:3os. a week, the person who
had his labour paid 3s. the parish made good the re-
mainder out of the Poor Rates ! This was a great
evil, which had existed for some time, but was now
increasing beyond all bounds. It was productive of
the worst consequences. It was oppressive to the
poor, and unjust to several other classes of suciety.
The honest and industrious labourer was driven by
it into a state of degradation, and the shopkeeper:.
and others, who did not employ the labourer, wei e
nevertheless made to contribute to his wages. It %v.v..
most desirable to correct so destructive and abomi-
nable a practice—(hear, hear, hear).—The next pro-
vision of his proposed Bill would tend again to fur-
ther the execution of the existing law, by giving em-
ployment to those out of work ; it would be to enable
parishes to let small portions of laud to industrious
individuals: and, if adopted, would, he was per-
suaded, exhibit very beneficial results. Another ob-
ject of the Bill would be a provision to enable Parish
Officers to recover possession of tenements in which
they had placed paupers, and of land which, in con-
formity to the last provision, they had let to them,
without being reduced to the tedious and expensive
process of ejectment. The next provision would be
one of considerable importance, but not of novelty,
as it had been suggested last Session, since which he
bad received numerous applications earnestly pres-
sing its adoption. It would be in the case of towns,
to enable parishes to rate the owners of houses, in-
stead of the occupiers. In towns, by various means,
a large proportion of the occupiers of houses escaped
being rated (the consequence of which was a larger
rent paid to the owners), and an immense burden was
thus thrown on the remainder. After several minor
regulations, there would be a provision to authorise
parishes to discriminate in the relief they afforded,
and to regulate its amount and nature by the charac-
ter and habits of those to whom it was granted ; so
that overseers should advance money to those who
had squandered previous means, only by way of loan,
to be repaid by instalments. It was at present a se-
rious evil, that many of those who received pensions
for their services in the army or navy, receiving those
pensions at quarterly periods, dissipated them in two
or three days, and then resorted to the palish for as-
sistanc.e. It was just that the parishes should applj

to be allowed to pay those penVions ; and there wou'ele'e.
be a provision in the Bill to enable such persons as
he had alluded to, to save themselves from the temp-
tation of squandering their allowances, by permitting
them to receive their pensions weekly from parishes.
A great burden was at present thrown on parishes in
the persons of those who had no settlement at all in
this country, natives of Ireland, Scotland, &c. At
Ipreient these persons were committed as vagrants. It
would be a provision in his Bill that the Magistrates
should have power to pass them to the sea-pert
neatest their home, without committing them. Such
was a slight sketch of the objects which the professed
measures had in view ; und the House would observe,
that they tended rather to amend the administration
of the laws than to alter the system itself. His 'zi-
tention was, if the House gave him leave, to bring in
the Bills as soon as possible. to Rill up theblanks, :rd
to have them printed, and circulated throughout the
country, for the consideration of those who were
most conversant with the subject, and most interested
in it—(hear, hear).
Mr. S. BOURNE then moved for leave to bring
in a Bill to regulate Parish Vestries.
Some conversation took place, in which Mr. N.
CALVERT! Mr. C. CALVERT, General HOPE, and Mr.
S. BOURNE, participated ; when Lord CASTLEP.EM.:3
observed, that it would be most satisfactory to see
the Bill in the House before any further discussion
on the subject, as its precise objects would then be
more intelligible.
Leave was then grantedto bring in the I ll ; ned
Mr. S. 11011ItNE immediately afterwards obtained
leave to bring in the second Bill to amend the laps
for the relief of the poor.

NORTH POLE.
Mr. CROKER said, that as the progress of the Dill f.-.r
amending the Acts respecting the iloarJ of Longitude had been
delayed, he wished to bring in another Dill imaitCd purp se,
which it would be desirable to pass through before the holtd .ys.
It was to Ater the words of the o.th prescrib .1 to be taken by
the Masters of Greenland ships, who were convened to b ...r
that they had no view of profit but the Fishery. Ile 4
to add or the Parliamentary Itrward Ld. cppro.n.biai, the
Pole." Ships were now every thy fitting out for U.,: trade. !.:e
moved for leave to bring in a Dal for this purpose..—L...ve w.. 1
given, and the Dill brought in.
In answer to a question cf Lord A. 11-1731 T LTO!:,
Mr, CROKER said that he did not intend to press on ha.-tay
the other 13111 on the same subjact now befcre the House.
The Bill was read a first and second time, r.nd ordered to be
committed to-morrow.

INDEMNITY BILL.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the com-
mitment of the Indemnity Bill.
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS gave notice, that
he should move an Amendment on bringing up the
Report, for the purpose of preventing Indemnity
being extended to Magistrates or others who may
have seized the Papers ot Persons whose only offence
was being present in tumultuous assemblies.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said, if no Amendment
was made in the Committee, there could be no Re-
port of any.
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS observed, that 1-. e
was not aware of this circumstance, and that several
Gentlemen had left the House on an understancii-1
that an Amendment might be proposed on bringing
up the Report.
The SPEAKER stated, that if no Amendment
was made in the Committee, it could Lot be moved
till the third reading.
Sir WILLIAM BURROUGHS said, he under-
stood, from the argument of the Solicitor-General,
that the Amendment which he meant to propose
would not be objected to. Frcm that argument, he
understood that it never was in the contemplation cf
his Majesty's Ministers to extend an indemnity to
those who had seized the papers of rersons merely
for having been present at tumultuous assemblies.
The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said, he had al-
luded merely to the searching of the houses cf per-
'sons accused of publishing seditious libels. An lion.
and Learned GentlCman had stoned from a News-
paper, that the papers of a person had been seized
on the pretence of his having published blasphemous
and seditious libels, and he had observed that the
Act would extend indemnity to such cases. 'the
Honourable Baronet had misunderstood him, if he
thought he went farther than this.
After some observations from Sir Wsi. Bunnoucus,
the House went into the Committee.

Sir JOHN NEWPORT stated, that it was Lis in-
tention on the third reading to oiler a dame, ~
biding that nothing in the Act should extend indem-
nity to any persons, against whom an action was
brought for acting with rigour or severity in api-re-
hending or detaining persons. He understood tine
Bill was not meant to extend to such cases, but as it
was worded, it was liable to he so construed. As
he understood the Attorney-General to say; that it
was not in the contemplation of his Majesty's Min:,-
ters to extend the fill to ar.y such cases of severi!:-,
he should offer this clause, and he gave this not:.e
of his intention, that no gentleman might he taken
by surprise. It was his intention also tc offer
clause, to provide that payment should be made
from the public revenue of such damages as migllt
be awarded by Juries to ai.,-grievel--(Tear,
hrnrt—
persons, on the principle that if the public was bo-
nehted ivy the Act of Indemnity, the public ought
to pay the price, and that it should not be thrown
on the individual.

The Bill went through the Committee w:tl.ont
receiving any amendments, and the Repoit 'sat or-
dered to be received to-morrow.

BOARD OF LC,NOITUDE BILL.

Mr. CROKlik movr.d the second icading of tl.e
Board of LongittAle Bill. At present, preparatici..:
were making tot a vcyage of discovery to the No:-
them Regions. The expe.lition would sail bef.
Parliament met again ; and it was desirable, the r
fore, that the Bill should p.ess that House before ‘'.f.
holidays, that Left .is its sailing the per:Ai:is
might know with more certainty what rewaie ti..
had to expect. It was his intention, therefore, tc
pose the commitment on Monday next.
Sir CHARLES MONCK said, the Bill ought t
have been sooner intioduced, to give the House time
for more maturely considering it.
Mr. CROLER said, he did not mean to harms tl.e
Bill throngh the House—there would be two
between each stage.
After some observations from Mr. f....MYTH. the Bill
was read a second time, and ordered to be committed
on Monday next.

Mr. Alderman WOOD gave nrtice, that after the bolidr.rt
he should move for 1,...ve Lrirg iu 11.11 fa tar tukt.t..arv-
im.it of Trade and s atit It w.:s r !., sn Acz
v.hiab had beet, rasutl fn fraland. The objet: wAs to enable

et the'..tde, espcciall
awa.e that the pro
within the last
,et the conrcquenc
-.ltl disposed of
off their stock
1..,! trade atro;zetlic:r.
''0.),0!)0/,
to was iml
A •3x, Wll ich
:f `. But w
ai ret
:• e. ruin. r
• ~.t It was cal
had been
' b- the di-pressi,w
of the additional t•
ed in the resources
, .c and a half.
•h accede to his motion
I ......1%-ance of rcvenu
r-r.lar.eat interest of trade
was any casual ant
c.....cre,1 the ,ecurity, or
f 7. • trad.: font which all
• we.dth, indee
•z c c-ir trade, and he
ncvLr be risked tc
e:Tedient. In pr
'fax, he could
....Hor.,urable Friend (M:
of the S.tlt Tax, by
itbaitute ; for, in his
Niaisters themselves to
t.:eb.st substitute for tax
t on of our expenditt
net's as it was their duty
tnclo,ied ith moving for
e repeal of the additic
Tae CII.I.NCELI.OIt
• • if the motion of the NI
of a C'ommittec.
:5-psei to accede to it, h
• But he could
because it called
..:veur of the Petitioners
truth of their allega
• Lo-d% own statemei
iate dnaht as to the
:. the Petitioners objet
. contained all the gro
▪ circulated by the Pe
▪ :hose grounds he (thc
contended, it was no
..e Tax to which the
▪ any degree to pi
.rain the Nol
(ATI", h
tile
....1 appeared fron
produ
hole rot
dr.c..cd, for a d:awl-ack
a, upon an
therdore, of
'fradt Lia fallen
7. !) 'I our w. entractt
,%71. ' 011
.)..ICII I)l..aif:!ti 7110;
r7C., • et t AT. t 1.41
;, lea,t ',iv the peaci
by the tax, it
• f that tax, un
So:el rfpeal mould it
r' 'Noble Lord did not e
- of the ',eat]
p7'• Gentleman stated
in 1791, 39 I,Ot
%.ing to an increase(
t,l)O't within the 1
• ...I v.as dear that the
Az.
rot fallen off, a:
c.. • kather trade ha
beet consic
r,-h d, :nand
and cc
.tit the ..td,:
••, ten fart, !hat
• ieh the Nobi
,:re,•.! •
with a fire
' i, in emit
' •I
tl.e exi--tent
• ken place
r • c(:aclusi;
0- had n!. tl
line •_f •t,ct ce.tr after
tbcr narneh
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