Star.
London, England, 1817-03-01 00:00:00

LIVERPOOL PETITION.

Mr. BROUGHANI held in his hands another
proof of the great advantage which the country would
derive from any time which the Home might allow:
Although but a single half day had been given to the
inhabitants of /.iverpool, they had expreied their
opinion in the most respectful but earnest manner in
the petition which he should beg leave to present.
When be looked at the names by which it was signed,
he found that they were those of the must respectable,
wealthy, and independent inhabitants of that great
city. He might, indeed, appeal to the Honourable
Member who represented it, for the truth of what he
asserted. The petition exprrssed no opinion on the
Report of the Secret Committee, but stated that the
petitioners had reason to suspect that the charges
contained in it had been made by designing indivi-
duals, who had taken that opportunity of insinuating
matters against their neighbours, as in 179/, which
they ha& no doubt facts'would disprove.
Mr. COKE took the opportunity of saying a few
words respecting the imputations which the Report,
upon- which the Bill is progress through the House
was founded, had can upon certain clubs esta-
blished in different parts of the kingdom, upon prin•
ciples which could not truly be described as subver-
sive of the Cobstitution. Amongst others, the Nor-
' with Union Club had found itself included amongst
' those which the Committee of the House of Lords
had stigmatised in its Report. He had this day re-
ceived a letter from Mr. Taylor, of Norwich, one of
the principal members of tFe Union Club there—a
Igentleman of Aona he might say that he was likely
to be one of thwTery last men in the kingdom who
would eugsge in any project against the Constitution
or the Laws, and there was no man who knew the
Taylors. of Norwich, who would not say that they
were ono of the most respectable families in the king-
dom. With the permission of the House, he then
read the letter, which stated, that by a passage in
the Report of the Secret Committee of the Meuse of
L9tdi, the Union Society of Norwich found itself
grossly misrepresented—that it was with -the utmost
astonishment that that Society had found it said that
it was affiliated and associated with another society
of the, same name in I.ondon, and with others, the
aim and object of which were the total subversion of
the Constitution ; that the Union Society of Norwich
was bound by no secret oaths; that it held no mid-
night meetings at which the Scriptures were profaned
or ridiculed; that it had not caused arms to be pur-
chased fur the purpose of enforcing its doctrines ;
that it had no correspondence it connexion with any
other society whatever; that. it had nothing to do
with any traitors; that the writer pledged himself,
that at least as far as related to the Union_Society of
Norwich, the Committee had been completely de-1
mitred, sad that he was ready to furnish the Mem-
lbers of the Administration or the House with any
proofs which might be required to corroborate his
statement." The Honourable Gentleman then said,
tit he thought the statement in this letter deserved
implicit credit. If time were allowei he had no
doubt that many more statements of the same kind
would be received from different parts of she country
—and even from what had already appeared, the
11 Report of the Committee was more and more weak-
ened every day. Indeed, nothing could surprise hint
More than the unanimity of the Committee.
Mr. W. SMITH rose for the purpose of corrobo-
, rating by his testimony all that had been said by the
Honourable Gentleman who spoke last, as to there.
spectability of the qbarter from which he had recei-
ITed the letter that bad been read to the House. He
had himself also received a letter to the very same
purport. 'Nothing could exceed his surprise at find-
ling in the Report alluded to any imputation against
the Union Society, the objects of which were well
known to be oft he most harmless kind, and its views
solely to proinot- the cause of Constitutional reform.
Mr. B. BATHURST observed, that as the Union
Societies were not mentioned in the Report of this
House, all that had been now said respecting them
did not apply to any thing done, or intended to be
done, by the House. The Committee of this House
did not conceive that there was any thing iarticu-
larly mischievous in the Union Society of Norwich.
Mr. HARVEY rose for the purpose of saying that
he knew Mr. Edward Taylor, of Norwich, who
signed the letter which had been read by the lion.
Gentleman (Mr. Coke) to be a most respectable man,
who, though he might differ in opinion from him
(Mr. Harvey) on political subjects, yet he was sure
would be one of the last men to attempt, by mean
of atiy club or otherwise, to overturn the constitution.
Mr. TIERNEY said, that he had been prevented
from attending the Secret Committee at its last sit-
ting, otherwise be would certainly have peptised,
that before they presented their Report to the House,
they should bare communicated with the Committee
of the other House, and compared the Reports and
evidence. As it was, every thing that had come out
with respect to the Report of the Lords' Committee,
furnished the strongest argument foe delaying the
now in progress ; for it the evidence was offered
pnrptlse of proving that there was a mistake
in the ItepOst of the C,onnpittets of- the House ol
Lords, Mt was surely-an argument for delay, till it'

sl!sattli he seen:ihether there was any rnictake ;,

Report of ihe o.mmittee of this House. It was Ab •
all things necess:lry, in a case of the present kit t,
that it should he ascertained whether there were A'
mistakes, and of what kind. If it had all tatly b tv:
discovered that a mistake had been made in one in.
stance, ten nr•re might be considered as inchitlO
t:-e sw p-pint acc!!sation contained in the Repoli el.
hided tn. The House cnnid not reasonably p•.ss;u,.h
a Nil the face of such a mistake.

Eir JAMES MACKINTOSH :peke thee ly in
the highest terms as to the respectabilty of the pet.
.or from whom the letter came which had been read.
Mr. JOHN SMITH said, that the Report cnn.
tained en imputation of the most serious kind avinst
that part of the country which he had the lionotir to
represent. It would therefore be extremely strange
it time was not allowed for an opportunity to stew.
whether such an imputation was true or not. He led
no doubt, that it the N,al for suspending the Haie„..,
Corpus Act were not 4turried through the. Horse, ;,,
should have to present to the Douse, a Petitiee hem
several thousand persons against that Bail. He had
no intention of cesting any imputation against 11. e
Members of the Committee, but when he at called
upon as a Member of Parliament, to agree to a meat.
sure whielt was to suspend-the liberties of the people
England, he could net ceinscientmesly agree to it
merely on the Report, nor froze any centicience in
those who framed it. Much had been said about ;he
Speacearee They had been represented as a nee
mesons and dangerous body of men, whose princi.
pies were widely disseminated. It so happened that
he, as a Member of what wakcalled the Spital4e/ds
Committee, had an opportunity of examining Sc:,
closely the condition and habits of the lower classes
in the eastern part of the metropolis, where he had
witnessed scenes Of the most afflicting kind. He had.
during his inquiries, frequently asked these unfotitt-
nate victims of the distresses of the times; but he lead
not met with one of them who profes ed the Spencein
doctrine!, nor who had even beard of them, except
through the newspapers, and when they had heard of
them, so far, even under their excessive distress, from
adopting these wild doctrines, they universally treated
them with derision. Upon the whole, he really ciuld
not give credit to . that part of the Report which re-
-1 presented these principles as so snidely ditrasel ; and
he could not help thinking that all that was said abler
the Spencean system (to use a vulgar expression) was
merely a humbug—(4 lough.) As to the proceedings
on the 2d of December last, no man could think
them more criminal than himself ; he thought the it-
dividuale concerned were guilty of high treason. Let
then he could not think that there was any serious
danger to be apprehended from an insurrection which
broke out at twelve o'clock in the day. Tile Report
of the Committee might be right as to some indivi-
duals, but he denied that it was true, as applied to
eny large body of the people, althouh in fact, it
bel ed the se! ole people of England, for it was in such
general terms that it might apply to every put of the
kingdom. He had lately been abroad, and clurire
conversation in a company of foreigners, conceron,
the British Constitution, lie had happened te !nice
some remat ks as to the liberty of the subject, when a
foreign Gentlemen ebsetved, that the hbe:tj of :!7e
' subject in Etrzlar :I was not so great as was talice
since it could not he den,, d that the Mesister co u
go clown to the House of Commons when he please!,
and induce it to steesend the leleheas Corpus Act—•
her, from the Opt/ 'union. To this he (Mr.
Smith) had replied, that n. Minister could do se in
any case in which there was net an obvious necessity,
nor against the public opinion, or it would be by a
very small majority. lie therefore hoped that :;:e
decision of the House this niAin would Shel? that ES
"pinion was cOrtect.
Mr. LONG WELLESLEY said he diC:red very
materially from the lion. Gentleman who spite la-t
as to what was the general opinion in the cotrit:y
concerning the Bill before the House, for he belictc.f
that the public opinion was strongly in favour of tlet
Bill. Th..t H .n. Gentleman had said, that aqiong
the inhabitants of Spitaifields he had found ne
ceans ; but the fact was, that none of those else pro-
, lessee: the Spencean principles would be to
avow them, so that there was no good argument to
be deduced from the lienourable Gentlemau%
riesas to that pnitst.

The CHAI4CELLOR of the EXCHrQNER
reminded the House, that the question before it aa.,
whether the Petition should be brought up ?
Lord COCI-IRANE said, he had a letter fr(,:n
Mr. Chapman, a member of a Club for Parliamee-
hay Reform, at Loughborough, den} Ink :ce
_charges against those Societies lit tiTe Reports ut ;Se
Secret Committees—far from irreligii..n being avow-
ed, many members were very religiuus n.tu. !lie
took that occasion to ask the Lord Advocate, wl:e-
ther it was tree that the persons arrested is Scotlud
were of the lowest ordets, with the exception
schoolmaster and lawyer's clerk ? It was said, that
it was a meeting of poor persons to obtain some pa-
rochial relief. He was confirmed in the belief tnat
it was so, by a letter from Glasgow, dated so far
back as Feb. 8, in which it was said, that at a meet-
ing in the neighbourhood of Glasgow, a dign;tat-y
of the law, who received a pension from the pub•:t•
had asserted that the Heritors were net binind
assist {he poor. The Sheriff had decided, hocevtr,
in favour cl t',e people, but the appeal was carlad
to the Couat Of Session to teach them patience. 'I ear
letter was signed J. McArthur, which was the name
of the Gentkman who had transmitted to hirn ule
Petition from Glasgow.
The Petition was then brought up and mid:
Kr. BROUGHAM said he had no wish to pro-
tract this discussion, but he could not help oi-..sav;ogr
with reference to what had been said by the he".
Gentleman (Mr. Lorg Wellesley), that if the Lit. •e:
hurried the Bill then in prigress they would rtnvl"
prevent that Hon. Gentleman from brirEiii.:r T.:-
many petitions in favour of sa popular a awab9 t"—
(A /okeh, and Hear, hear.) Indeed, it would seem
froth wiraf had been s rid by that Hon. Gyula"'
that Ministers had introduced this Bill not onto
the purpose of preserving the tranquillity of the cecrl-
,try against that very numerous society, the Sper-
ceans, who were nowhere to be found—(at
but also fat' the purpose of gaining a hide of Oat pG:
polarity which they may have lost by other measure,
hear, from the Opposition.)
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT presented aped-'e•:
from the Lcice:ter Hampden Club compiaining

the re.i•-nt of o,e Om-
. ries:its ervt up a: it ..y
chic
and offering evidence in vindication of its
• • les. It stated that the Club was instituted
to promote the cause of reform, by obtaining
pre," .earai_ion ets extensive. with taxation, annual
yriiaments, and unbiassed freedom of election.
The petition was brou.i.bs up, read, and ordered to
.nn the table.
I:SPEN6ION OF THE HABEAS CORPUS
TLe CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
r.„-.vel the third reading of this Bill. Upon the
goes-
non wag put,
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR rose, and said he wished
'obese those sentiments recorded which for a _series
f years he bad always expressed up..n the subject ofl
pispending the Habeas Corpus, and which would
die with him. As to the doctrine. p.ufesed L. eat
rf men caliing themselves Spenceans, he felt no alarm
st theni ; they had slept fur twenty years, and if now
toil, cc! , he slid not think it likely they would have
no.ty converts. If any person imagined that there
‘..iA an insurrection now upon the eve of bursting
nothing which he could offer would be calcu-
laieJ to remove that suspicion from their minds; but
oath regard to that which took place on the 2,1 of
Daember, it had been crushed by the existing laws.
'liaise laws also had since been found sufficseat to
pc down a conspiracy in another part of the island,
ar:•;rding to the declaration of a Learned Lord upon
a flrnier evening. He did not, therefore. see any
adtvte necessity for the present measure, and with-
o,: a case of extreme and positive danger, no power
(A earth should induce him to stnction a law by
.I,icii any man might be imprisoled fur an offence
t:: it in other circumstances would not send him to
trial. He would trust no individual with such an
i:h►nt icy ; he would not even trust himself. The worst
tc,iture of it was, that it placed every man's personal
sitay within the reach of insidious, malignant whis-
per, against his character. He would put a case that
happened to himself, and he hoped he was not sus-
rcted of treasonable intentions. He loved his
Lowry too well, and the comforts he enjoyed in it.
When Mr. O'Connor was forced to leave Ireland in
consequence of being an United Irishman, be brought
letters of introduction to several persons in this coun-
try, and among others, to himself (Mr. Taylor.)
He was ready to declare, that while he visited at his
house, there was nothing in his conduct that would
have led him to suspect he was an United Irishman.
It happened, however, that before he was appre-
hended, be was trend from his House to several
places where United Irishmen assembled.. Now sup.
pose his (Mr. Taylor's) character had not been what
it was, what might have been his situation? Upon
mere suspicion he might have been torn from his fa-
mily and thrown into prison, without the means of
exculpation, without being permitted to tell how he
became acquainted with Mr. O'Connor, without the
power of demanding his trial that he might provehis
innocence—(Jicar, Isar.) A similar occurrence might
happen to a osan in a lower situation of life, and bow
was he to protect himself against its consequences?—
(Naar, Attie.) And yet it was the boast and glory of
Englishmen, that. every person, whatever his station
in society, found equal protection in the eye of the
law. It was because such evils might happen, that
be would never consent to •suspend the bulwark of
British freedom. If the law, as it now stood, was
insufficient to punish those libellers who strove to
:mine the very basis upon which the morals,
order, and the well•being of society tested, be
ld arm the Executive with greater power, but
would not give it arbitrary power • • (Hear, laser.)
had opposed the Suspension of the Habeas Coe.
in 1794, arid. was one of a weir small minority,
ante many went over to the other side of the House
that time, whose *names, he believed, might now
found upon the Pension List—Weer, hare.)-
1797, be remembered the same question was Ws-
is that Howe, in the presevice of not more than
Members, ch was the fatal constqueftee of
minds becoming habituated to suck a proceed-
;—(Hear, hear). With respect to the question of
Momentary Reform, though he was not prepared
go the length of some persons, yet he had no hesi-
ioir in declaring that he was a small Reformer—
' laugh.) Yes, a small Refamer, for there were
coral things whi:h he wished to see reformed. Who
say, for instance, that Scotland ought not to
differently represented?—(Hear, Isar.) Or that
Boroughs should not be disfranchised ?—Bo.
which, he believed, the Idinisters.themselves
be glad to get rid of, if they could. He did not
pry into the sestets of the Cabirot he never
been, and be se d never should be, a Mi-
• but he would live undo any tyranny
the tyranny of 'certain Boroughasongers. He
not allude merely to those who were now in
if his Honourable Friends on that side of the
in place tomorrow, they must submit to
same tyranny, unless the constitution of , that
were altered. He was of opinion, however,
sooner or later some species of Reform must be
He.might not use to see it; but when any
considered Reform anA Revolution as synonimous,
"flooded two things that were totally distinct.
ir. WINDHAM QUIN contended, that the very
-cumstance of the lower classes being embodied in
ibs, was the most alarming part of the present con.
Icy; for if there were any poison to be infused,
clubs presented the means of 'circulating it
at the whole society. The Honourable
lan who spoke last had alluded to the arrest
certain conspirators at Glolow, and considered
as a proof of the adequate vigour of the law ; but
he recollected right, the Learned Lord, on a few-
er evening, stated also, that there were other persons
a very different description, to whom suspicion
;17 attached, but against whom, notaithstaod-
e existing laws could not be enforced. It had
in said, also, that on former occasions, when there
'ctaal rebellion, when there was a entity at the
the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act wet
. resorted to, and the reason was obvious. it was,
measure of precaution, of prevention, and not of
'4lAment ; and there' was no good, is adopting it
the explosion had taken place. In the present
ii•fioa of the country he thought it necessary, and
'fore should give his vote for the third' reading.
tr. PROtHEROE sail, that though he was as
.Ming *as any man to give up what was justly
,e 1 the great bulwark of she Constitution, yet,
the intimate conviction he had, that in certain

mA^ufacturing districts the most ett4iisive c6Wtlinti•
tioos existed, for the worst purp 'see. which were car-
ried on with a degree of system, of method, and of
caution, which the present laws could not reach, he
should support the presrnt 'may've.
Mr. LYTTLETON fast petsuAcled that every
Member of that House, Who was opposed to the pre-
sent measure, must he solicitous not to give a silent
vote. He was the mire inclined to offer his opinion
from the anxiety of cleaving himself from the impu-
tation of a Noble Lord (Cistlereagh), that every in-
dividual who was unfriendly to the suspension of the
Habeas Corpus Act, might be presumed either to
have countenanced, or to 1) tee been concerned with

those whose nuchioations it was ;vended to coup•

teract--(Cries of No, No, from Me Ministerial Beitehes.)
He was gl4d to heAr the disclaimer, thong)) he tos-
pected it would not be co extensive with the impoita-

tion. Since the production of the Report of the bun-
mittee of Secrecy, it was to be recollected, that evi-
dence had been produced and nwe (SAO, that went
to shake the authenticity of its character. No man
was more willing to admit than he was that there
existed a treasanable activity, or if the term conspi-
racy was considered more applicable, he had no ob-
jection to employ it, in some districts of the realm.
Still, however, these partial disturbances could not be

arrayed against the whole kingdom. It was a matter
of notoriety that great distress and great discontent
pervaded the manufacturing disir;cts, but to be
thus informed the country 'did not require the so.
keno investigation of a Committee of that House.—
The Government itself must have been aware of its
existence, and they mast also feel convinced, that it
was fully competent to theta to suppress all danger
arising from such causes, without any extraordinary
reference to the adoption of new laws.. What would
a wise, a conciliating, a Constitutional Administration
have done on the notoriety of such procceJings ?
Assuredly they would have called Parliament toge-
ther on the manifestation of the first symptoms of
public disorder: In place of such a constitutional
tourse, they themselves appeared to be dormant, they
suffered the public tranquillity to be disturbed, with-
out any recourse to the natural remedies; they acted
as if it was their very objecrio bring Parliament into
discredit, and the Common Law into disrepute. He
could not be considered as imputing improper mo.
gives, when he contended that the Ministers of the
Crown seemed to be under any influence but a pure
and constitutional feeling....(Hear, Hear)—that they
took the very course that a Ministry determined to
disappoint the country in their just views of retrench-
ment and economy, might be supposed to take; and
that, unwilling by an honest and direct course of
policy to ingratiate the people of England, they
looked for a resource against their own mis-doings in
the terrors of despotism—(Hear, hear.)—The Hon.
Gentlemen opposite, in arguing the necessity of the
Suspension, passed over, with a marked silence, all
the precedents of fortr.er Suspensions of the Habeas
Corpus, save that of the Revolurionary one of
~1791.
Through a kind of dastardly apprehension of the
explod.d doctrine of that period, they endeavoured
to work upon the fears of the country at this moment,
although is every appearance there was the greatest
dissimilarity. There were no men of any importance
now supposed to entertaio the abandoned opinions of
the former period. Not one of the superficial symptoms
of 1794 were now evident. There did not exist now, as
there then exited, a Convention at Edinburgh, and
delegates from this country to the national Convention.
Every comparison went to prove, that- the precedent,
of 179/, as applied to the present state of the king-
dom, was altogether I phantom. When be recol.
hoed hew the Noble Lord, to whose discretion the
proem suspension at the flak,, Carpal would give
arch esbnled powers, acted a year ago, perhaps
tie r"false representatious bat certainly to the din.
Vase of his department, towards unfortunate and
helpless foreigners under the Alien Act, he was not
disposed to trust him with an unlimited contrail,
Civcr the liberty and security of Englishmen. The
'advocates of the present measure asserted, that the
public opinioit of the nation was its support, and as
a proof of that assertion, no doubt, they were pressing
it with such unaccountable rapidity through all its
stages in that House. He could see no distinction
between the present measure and the late law against
suspected ,persons in France. Were Ministers not
afraid of the parallel that would be drawn between
the Administrations of the two countries ? Whether
they were or not, they might rest assured that it would
be impossible to place the same chains upon the
of England.
people
LAMB agreed its opinion that Parliament
ought to have been immediately assembled when his
Majesty's Ministers were made acquainted with the
situation of the country, and referred to the precedent
Lis November, 1800. On that occasion of public, dis-,
tress, his Majesty declared, in his gracious speech,
that his tender concern for his people had alone in-
duced him to convene Parliament so early. Although
,that was the course he considered Ministers ought to
have pursued, he still, from the genes al state of the
country, from a wish to preserve the public peace,
and not merely from the riots alluded to an the Its.
part of the Committee, was willing to support the
temporary suspension of the Habeas Corpus. It had
been said that a Reform in Parliardent was all the
people wanted. But what hopes could we give, what
benefits could we confer, what prtvileges could we grant
to induce thipeople to be satisfied with this Could
a Reform in Parliament- carry into execution all
'those measures of which the country stood in need f
Shew him that it could, and hg would consent to it.
An Honourable Friend of his had said, that retrench.
meat and economy were necessary ; but be had al-
ways held it to be a gross sad idle delusion, that any
retrenchment would relieve the present distresses of
the country. It was from the resources and energies
of the country alone that we could expect to derive
any relief; and wee must be careful to preserve the
birthright and property of every man, which west
now assailed by the dangerous practices referred to
in the Report of the Committee. It was impossible
to overlook the-seditious meetings and the numerous
rpublications, the delegates and the subscriptions, and
not to say that theseoperated very considerably
cas the bead of the country. It was of the highest
possible coomqemose to revesst. these persons Ironi-
cal:lung forward and p. those plans into execu-
tion which they had ttttptied. The ordinary laws
might benalesient, ii duly bad their course f but bi
believed it to be one part of the plan, by threats and
mews, to prompt the complete execution of jus-

dr. Zear, frvin Me bit 4ii;00).-;,:i-it did eat
cersceive that the 'sews now in toece wtre adeqaale
the dangers of the country; and where were they it.,
look for security but to the meet:ire-which sees now
proposed? He sincerely, believed that, it Or:: HOW
should adopt it, they would hear very little more Al
any treasonable practicer; and, ansious as he was
for the peace and prosperity of the colintr y, he should
he happy to beer his share of the odium it; consent- I
inn to the Bid n before them.
Lord FOLKS FON E —The speech of the H .n
Gentleman whit had last sat 4!()Wil tea: Oii Of t!e
most extraordinary he hid ever hard. lie
to express in the strongest moiler able nten se of
the grounds on which that Howeirahle Gootiettem
had give* his support to the meaerre. The Lilliet
had cause to complain of the Holiour able Gentlemen
resting his support of the measure en Ilee gcnerai
state of the country, which he describ:d to b, bed in
the extreme. as the laws were not and cotiLl ri he
put in force—(llear, lieu r.) Now that sod' wa, the
ease, he very notch deubted, and he haul reasen to
question it, when he considered the reeeeteit assu-
rances to the contrary he had received Irons malty
country Gentlemen—( Hear, hear.) If the state of
the country was the reel cause of the proposed mea-
sures, he could nut help thinking that Ministers dealt
unfairly with the country. But the Itue. reason had
come ont, for the last Speaker bad honed that the
measure was meant to intimidate the country ! Why
was this net plainly said in the Report ?—(/ear,
hear, hear.) It was a curious argument to make the
measures of 91. a prec:dent, and they argument
amounted to inertly this, that because unjust mea-
tuses were then carried they ought now also to be
adopted-e(Hear, hear.) He was glad the plain truth
had now come out in the speech they had-last heard.
and he was the more glad when he considered the
people had afforded no opportunity for being intimi-
dated, no riot whatever having °mitred in a single
quarter where meetings for Reform were held. Spa-
fields was urged as an exception, hut he deitieJ it was
so, for Ilse disgraceful riots of the 2.1 of December
did not originate there. and at all events that westing
WAS held with the sanction of Ministers—( fleor, hear.)
It was equally Lite to say the people were resolved
to have their rights by tome. The people had sitewn
the contrary—they had shewn their love to the Con-
stitution by applying to Parliament for relief—by
addressing in autumn his Royal Highness, in the
most loyal and respectful manner, imploring him to
commiserate their distresses, and convene the great
Legislative Body of the nation. But had that Address
been attended to ? Alas, tie painful exPerieoce of
the people 'hewed the contrary. Ministers, ittetten-
tire to the public prayer, regardless of the public
complaints, had delayed assembling Parliament
the very moment they wanted money. They now,
in every speech they delivered, reviled the people.
and instead of relieving them, instead of cluing any
thing to soothe them, they brought down a preen
What was their Report ? Why it cons;sied merely er
history of what Ministers bad seen the last sworn meet.
Why were they then so miserably inactive and supine
They knew what was going en, yet they prorogued
the meeting of Parliament to the latest niement:-.
(Hear, hear). They had promised daring last Slfs
Wm to adopt muesures of Economy and Retrenet-
mentebut unfortunately they bad raid little attention
to these promises, for initead of remaining at ,home
to do so, the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr.
Cenningy was amusing himself with the gaieties of
France—(Hear, hear,) white the Noble Lord (Cat-
tlereegh) namely oily hie colleague, but now hap-1
pity his Noble Friend—(loid cheering from Me Ultpiaiil
how .thaeher)—was making speecoel at convivial
entertainments in Ireland. Such were the men to
whom the affairs of the country were entrnsted. Tu
House were told by the Right Honourable Gentle-
man -that his Noble Colleague (Lord Sidmouth) was
at home doing his duty, and that the country might
safely place confidence in him—(/Isar, hear). This
really looked mighty well; but he would Ask, when
did the Right Honourable Gentleman himself enter
min such confidence in that Noble Viscount ?- (Jou&
cries of hears hear). The time bad not long elapsed
since a very different opinion was entertained by the
Right kron.Gentleman, but it was very happy for hint
he tied now got a little more light —(Hear. hear).
He really thought there was an evident ignorance on
the part of Ministers respecting the existing laws,
and that they actually did not know what were the
laws of the country. Thete was an Act passed in
1812 respecting illegal oaths, but, like the other laws,
it had not.been in force. It was absurd in Gentle-
men to talk of the Friends of Reform expecting that
immediate relief could be afforded from Reform.,
This idea was irrational. and had never for tone mo.
went been entertained by the advocates of Reform,
who knew the relict afforded by that salutary mea-
sure must be gradual in its progress. But did this
give any reason to argue that no Measure, in the
mean time, should be taken to soothe and conciliate

the people, and to chew that the House felt for, and
would sio all that was in their power to relieve their
-sufferings f—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was glad the
Honourable
gentleman had told rheas the true rea-
son for passin the Act; it would at lesst 'skew the
people what were the grounds, of enacting it. He
implored the House to pause—he implored them to
consider helot, they proceeded further—he implored
them to recollect this WAS not the time to intimidate
the people—this was not Abe time to add insult to
their already sufficiently-wounded feelings. Such a
measure as that now proposed could be productive,
to say the least, of no benefit; and viewing it as to-
tally unnecessary and uncalled (Or, he should give it
his decided opposition—(Hear, hear, hear.)
The LORD ADVOCATE of SCOTLAND felt

himself called upOn to say a few words in reply,. par-
ticularly to what had fallen from his Honourable and
Learned. Friend opposite (Sir S. Rossilly) who ly's4l
said that the dense extending to Scotland was a no.
reit), in Acts of this description. On the contrary,
it was a fact that in all the preceding Acts for the
suspension of the Habeas Culp% (rum the time ul
the anion of England with Scotland, a clause was in-
troduCed in the very same terms us was to be found
in the present Bill. 1a 1715, 1722, and 1745. the
Law Officers who then sat in that House meant to
pat the people of Scotland out of the pale of the law
as much as the people of England. With'revect to
the Petition which bad been presented to the House
by a person of the name of McArthur. stating, that
one of the officers of justice in Scotland had been
guilty of bona oppressive. acts, and had alto watds

tpensii tr ilq Att f.`reolvil trtn. tistshect art
Hour! co rrireo:iosr. that an ll.inourable Memlter,
JAM WAS now no more. ( Mr. Itirner), had expressed
a very favoorabte opinion of that Judge; and, comfy,
all who coloic;:red she conduct of that Honourable
(ember—all ~ho reflectetion his strict intog.ity and
many virtues, both 'n public and psivmelile— al who
dwelt on the great benefits which Scotland had
rivedde-
from his ithil;oes and attachmetit to the public
interest,—all wh ff tarred themselves, acrd most
justly so, with the sxpectea-n that England would
derive the mos: essei.tial hriorfirs fruit his par, intism
a id talents—(aere Sir Samoel Roma!) appeared to
h. deeply air:tell) —would concur in the opinion,
that noliiiog criminal or injorious to the reptitatirn of
that Judge coald have been corrimirted, or the
44444 rable to !:e It iJ alluded would nut
have sulf.reil a to escape his ,eioaire.
Sir SAtsIUCL ItOMILLY roe merely ro make
on. ist 00-ervatioos oa what had fallen from the
Learned I.otd• lie bad said, on a ioniser night,
that the claioe in question was nut to be found in the
Act of I.e 11311 S4id lint it was not to
he found is any of the preceding Acts. It was car-
tainly nut to b,! lound in the Act isif 17.14.
however, was a motel of very slight importance s•—•
the question was not what w.:s done in former times,
but what was to be done now? He entreated the Llouse
to pause, and not to suffer any Judge or Magistrate
to take any man into cu.cody without the order of.
Iris blojesty's Privy Council, signed by six Privy
Councillors. This clause may referred to such as
had been committed under a warrant born the Secre-
tary of State.
Mr. PONSONBY observed, that the Learned
I,aof could have no objection to clearing up the dot-
ficulty, which did not %assail with regard to the
&omit Acts of 1701 and lilt, against wrongoin
impiisonment. As the clause was ..t present word.A,
it would bear massy c.,nstructions directly opihoed
cacti other, which could not be deviled upon atter
the passing of the Bill but by a Court of Justice.
Sir ARTHUR PIGGO FT also reprobated the
obscurity and ambiguity with which the clause was
framed. If this Law score to * inflicted upon the
People, they had at least a right to expect that it
should be clear and piecise. In order that the di n.•
culty might be removed, he recommended that the
Bill should be recommitted.

The'SPEti KElt remarked, that in the present
stage the Dei could net be recemrnirted. Any amend-
ment might be introduced after tee third reading.
tie A. PIGUOTT then proceeded :o state has opi-
nions generally upon the measure before the House.'
He would not go so fat as to say, that he eerir: el
of ever y eh rate in the Report of the Secret Committee ;
but after mature cons: erasion as a whole, it met
with his come and heerty cuncurrence. He had lis-
tened to the arguments at some, and to tee taunts.
and sneers of otners ; hut his opinion was the mea e
confirmed the pore he reflected upon the ate of
the evidence upon which etiat Report was grounded.
He dil not shrink iron this declaration, because he
held it to be a public duty; and, in his judgment,
Minister; would have been liable to the severest cern.
sures, had they not ineee the communication to the
House that led to the appointment of the Committee.
(Hear, he ,r).—So tat atom the Report being an et-
stggerated s.atement, he was rather inzliaci ter t!,ltsk
that it scarcely were. as lan as the evidence sente.d •
warrant. As to the disclosure of that teitinr%Oto the •
Committee had WI:e; j determined not to publish it 1.
and:altaurigh rime' e: it was 'alb's: to contradiction, •
yet it was nut te tie expected .that 3 CAllallitte, not
administering al oath. should obtain informetinn with
sill the gaardacejtelacial proceedings. The vbjec:on
that tLe evideace was 1)..t annexed to the Report, was .
rather an objection to the nominee n of a Committee •
at all; since the witnesses, it it had been deemed pre!.
dent, might have been rzamined at the bar of the house.
The evils were cert sully neither light nor trivial, and
on account of their importance he readily gave his
support to the Bills upon the table for the auppres-
'ion tit secret associations, for the prevention tit the
seduction el the army and navy, and foreee protec-
tion of the perem of the Prince Regent : bat these
et:curare; were 'ail he considered necessary, and ti ere-
fere he most strongly protested against the proposed
Suspeusion ut the Habeas Corpus Act. That mea-
sure, the House would recollect, was not directed
against any particular intlivittuals, or against any
particular place; but it deprived equally all classes of •
the King's .subjects of their just rights, and confoun-
ded the innocent with the gutlty. Was it pretended
that a single individual of property or consequence
had been concerned with these .miserable cinches ?
Or could it be argued, that dread of communications •
between insurgrntsand foreign. hostile.powers
juste—
tied the suspension, which was not only diipropor-
tioned to, but not at all calculated to meet the evil.
One Honourable Gentleman ( Mr. Lamb) had indeed
supported it for a re+son Never before urged—that
lesson was not only extraordinary in itself, but still
more so from its want of foundation in truth.— •
He bad said that the suspension—this law above the
law—wits required, because the progress of the ordi-
nary law was attested by the pteseat state of the
country. This was a pure imagination. Sieere in
the Report would any statement be.lour.d to justify
such au assertion And upon whet peculiar evidence,
in his exclusive possession, del the Honourable Geo-
tleasen found his bold assertion !—(Hear, hear). We
were now upon tee very eve et the Spring Assizes ;
the Judges were about to open their Commissions;
and yet they were to be told /hat all was in vain, ter
the progress-ofehe law was erreeteo, and there was an
end to all justice and its administration. The Report
Confined use distur bences to celesta districts, and the
evidence warranted that cenclusion, but the remedy
wa; to apply to the whole nation ; and because a few
demagogues had misled some manufacturers,aglical
total baleen ers, and all other peaceful classes, were to
be put out of the pale of the law. It.was• enough for
him that this extraordinary power was cf
abuse—he did not ask who were the Ministers ? bat
lie would fearlessly *tete, alit under circumstances
lake the present he would intrust reach traitimittd and
uncontroutable authotity to na :Misters, True it was:
that unlawful associetions ex;sted ; but was it to be
itow said, and to be established as a precedent, that
whenever it could be proved that a secret club, how- .
ever contemptible, had been eireeed, the totterieft
weakness of an Adniiiaisttation was to be bolstered up •
by a suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act—(dear.)
the
Co
pntiopultw nceedasuhe wnc w
as,tcilti.di
att;:eat..d to quell y- nine hundredths
theuendred etthosno

T

undermine th
the order, an,
would arm ti
he would not
He had oppoi
pus in 1796,
because many
at that time,
be found opt
In 1797, he
used in that
seventy Mem
men's minds
.ng—( Hear,
stliamtntir
o go the len
noon in decl
41 busk.)
everal thing
ould say,
differentl
me Boron
.ughs whiel
ould be gli
' •to pry
• ad
,been, as
ister ; but
halt the tyl
id not all
• iver : if h
onse were
.te same t:
..cuse were
lint sooner
al .ied, H
• ne consider
tey confiur
Mr. Wlls
ircurnstant
tubs, was t
piracy; io
• stow clubs
'broeghout
eotleman
.f eertain
)14 .13 a pr
ire recollt
Cr evenini
a very
:TC411117 ati
I.G .t e exi
ten said,
kctoal
ore, the s
ot resorts
measure
I..ishteee
Ater the e:
• tuistioa O
.4.7 t fore sl
Mr. PR
•
willing
'Lel the
the it