Star.
London, England, 1821-06-16 00:00:00

CLAIMS OF GENERAL DESFOURNEAUX.

Mr. IRVING rose to renew his motion of a com-
pensation to General Desfourneaux.
Mr. C. GRANT gave way to the Hon. Gentleman.
Mr. IRVING then proceeded to address the Comm
mittee. He had on a former night shortly submitted
to Parliament the grounds of the claim, which he
should contend was founded in justice, policy, and
good faith. The Hon. Member
,then entered again
into the history of the circumstances upon which the
claim of General Desfourneaux was founded, and
maintained that it was of that nature which the Go-
vernment of this country was bound to consider, and
to make good. General Desfourneaux had applied
to the French Government, by whom he was referred
to the Government of this country, as it was during
our occupation of the Colony of Guadaloupe that
his losses had been sustained. The claim was after-
wards referred to a Committee of that House, who
recommended that it should be allowed. It was as
the Chairman of that Committee, that he (Mr. Irving)
felt it his duty to introduce the subject to the House;
and he thought it would not discharge its duty if it
did not sanction the motion with which he should
conclude. It was for the honour of this country
that such a claim as the present should not remain
unsatisfied. France had set an example in this re-
spect which we should imitate. She had admitted
claims, and some of them of a much older date than
this, to the amount of four or five millions sterling.
It was because he thought the honour of the coun-
try concerned in this question that he should occupy
the attention of the House while he read several do-
cuments contaieing certificates cf the validity of the
Gmeral's claim. The Hon. Mcm;:er then tend ex.

tracts from a vast number of documents, and con-
cluded by moving,
That the sum tat £26,006 its. ed. be granted to his Ma-
jesty, in order to be paid to General Seeping% Baron Desfour-
wain, or his descendants, as compensation fur bosses sustained
by him at the capture of Guadalnupe in 1794 ; and that the tame
be paid without any deduction whatsoevete."
Mr. BANKES objected to the motion. He was
of opinion, that a Committee on this subject had not
been at all necessary ; and he was surprised that the
Chancellor of the Exchequer should have so easily
I consented to the revision, by a Committee, of a claim
for public money, on which the. Board of Treasury
had previously decided, after the most mature deli-
beration. On the first application on behalf of Gene-
ral Desfourneaux, the Treasury referred the matter
to be examined by the Comptrollers of Army Ac-
counts; and they reported that it had no foundation
whatsoever in justice or equity. However, for one
part of his claim, which had some kind of equitable
ground, k was recommended that General Desfour-
neaux should receive the sum of 40,000 francs. Af-
terwards, in 1819, he sent in a fresh application, with
new documents to support it ; but on an inspection
of these by the same Comptrollers, they stated that
their former opinion of the claims not being well
founded was strengthened. Under these circum-
stances, and not considering the House bound by
what had been done by the Committee up stairs, he
(Mr. Wilkes) should object to the motion.
Mr. IRVING admitted that Government might
have done better than to consent to the appointment
of the Committee ; but the House should recollect
that the claims of General Desfourneaux had come
to them sanctioned by the strongest testimonials of
the validity of the grounds on which they rested, and
that Government was bound to have them considered;
though he agreed that Ministers would have acted
better to have satisfied them at once, out of those funds
which came into our possession from many sources of
a kind similar to that of the capture of Guadeloupe.
Mr. P. GRENFELL agreed that the claim ought
not to have been allowed to come before the House:
but, the question now was, whether the recommenda-
tion of the Committee up stairs was made upon
grounds which should be attended to? He thought
the claim ought to be satisfied, though he could not
but express his surprise that such a period, as from
1794 to 1818, should be allowed to elapse before the
claim was made. That, however, he admitted ought
not to bar any claim which might be founded on jus-
tice. The Hon. Member concluded by moving an
Amendment, that the sum of £l4BB 2s. 4d. which
the Treasury had formerly thought due, be inserted
for the sum of £20,006 12i. 6d.

Mr. K. DOUGLAS, in explanation of the conduct
of the Committee, said, they had examined die claims
upon equitable principles, without reference to the
decision of the Treasury. The Treasury, in fact, had
admitted the justice of a part of the claim ; and, un-
der all the circumstances, he thought the Committee
could not possibly come to a decision different from
chat disclosed by their Report.
Sir JOHN NEWPORT said, it was a new doctrine
to him that the House would be guilty of a crime in
not acceding to the Report of its Committee.
The C H A NC ELLO Rof th e EXCH EQUER wished
the House to judge of what course ought to be taken
by the'English Government when the claimant ap-
pealed from their decision to that of his own Court.
It then became a question between nation and nation,
and it was not to be forgotten that the French Go-
vernment had acted with great liberality in deciding
upon British claims. It was thought proper, under
these circumstances, to bring the question under the
consideration of Parliament. He thought the Com-
mittee had acted with fairness and impartiality, and
he trusted no Honourable Member would oppose
their Report, without making himself perfect master
of the subject. For his own part, he had heard no-
thing to induce him to dissent from the Report of
the Committee.
Sir F. OMMANEY opposed the original motion,
and said he should vote for the smaller sum.

Mr. WARRE said, the Committee had distinctly
stated there was no written evidence of the contract
upon which the claimant relied. If claims like these,
at the distance of twenty-six years were to be al-;
lowed, he should cease to.wonder at the expense ofl
our wars—(Hear).
Mr. FORBES rose amid lcud cries of ef Question."
As Hon. Gentlemen had patiently listened to many
speeches against the claim of an absent individual
applying for justice, he trusted they would hear a
very few words in support of it. The Committee
had decided that the claim was founded in equity,
and he thought it would be an imputation on the
justice of the House not to act upon it. After a few
other observations in support of the claim, the Hon. i
Member concluded by expressing his intention to
vote for the original motion.
Mr. W. SMITH said he did not agree with eitherl
side of the House. He thought only a small part of
the claim had been proved. but that part, he thought,
should be paid with interest. The sum to which he
considered the claimant to be entitled was £3,200.

Mr. T. WILSON expressed himself in favour of
the original motion.
Mr. Alderman WOOD said, he rarely agreed with
the Chancellor of the Exchequer in voting public
money, but, in the present case, he should vote for
the larger sum.
Mr. HUME wished to know whether the Commit-
tee was a select or an ordinary one? If it was a Select
Committee he would vote for the original motion..
Mr. IRVING said it was a Select Committee.
Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the
House divided, when there appeared—.
For the Original Motion e - - - -
For the Amendment
Majority for giving the larger cum, £30,006 19.5.

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