Star.
London, England, 1803-12-10 00:00:00

There's oothirtips' d they fay, there's Oothing pod they do.

—Thefe vertex, bad a% they are, I think are imme-
diately connected with what is before us. 1 would
take fink into confideration the time, and the mate-
rials which Mining' have had to ad in and upon,
the money they hive had to difpofe of, and what,
they have a/Nally expended ; and then, upon the
relish, I &could be able to form a judgment of what
the Hon. Gentleman has done. Were I to enter
into thefe matters very flrialy and very fairly, I
&wild commence from the period of the Treaty of
Amiens. I thall. however, pats over that period,
'alien they dikharged fo many of their regular forces,
.whom they might have retained for a bounty of 51.
and whom they would. I dare fay, now with to re-
gain even at a bounty of Sol.—Then was the time,
when pieces of ordnance were fold for old iron.
which they would now be moil glad to retrieve. We
Unall oow pafs on to the tsth or t ilth of March left.
when we are to confider the general population of
the country, out o( which Minsliers are to create the
force neceffary for the defence of the State, and then
we ate to confider the expellee. In point of mere
bounty, in the army of Referee. or the line, we may
fairly fay, they have expended no lets a rum than a
million of money I not, indeed railed by Parliament,
bin not indeed the better on that account. The ex-
pellee of every Volunteer to Government. snail be at
kat! two pounds, one pound for cloathing. and ano-
titer for exercife. which, even at the number of
3 ao,ooo men, (their foppofed amount) will far exceed
what the Hon. Gentleman has Rated the expence.—
In fad, it appears tl me. that there are no lets than
three millions adually laid out in huh more than
the mete formation of corps. As to the temper and
difpofition of the country, I mull fay, that never
men bad fu willing a country to ad upon t the
people only waited the fignal. Whether it was that
they were afraid to dillurb the holders of Onsniuns,
or what they were afraid of, I know hot, bat certain
it is. that Miaillers loon frond they had no on:e-
ke to call an one iactividssl co corns &mak.-

they found, that they had no fooner funk the
well, than the water not only made its appear-once-
plentifully, but was even likely to deluge them—
(a laugh)—ln Short, I may fay, that Milliners fonn
experienced, that they had no fooner turned the cock,
than it fpurted in their eyes (a laugh). They may now
reckon a force of soo,ooo ; a force, the very name
of which might be thought Sufficient to frighten to-
naparte with all his legions. Let us confider, how-
ever, how much of this nominal force is real and ,
fond rnafonry, or a (Landing force to the country;
and how much of it may be looked on as merely lath
and planer (a laugh) ; or how much of it is ufeful
for various purpoles ? When we talk of this immenfe
force, we are not furely to underftand that the whole of
it is equal to French, Hanoverian, Auftrian, Heffian,
or other continental armies of warlike nations. We
may reckon 70,000 Militia, all good and very refpec
table; there are 10,000 of the Army of Referve not
raifed at all ; and 6,000 that remains unattached=
Alt this is out of the ac,ooo who were to be raifiallf
Great Britain. There are then, I believe, s,OOO who
have entered into the regular army, bin, taking thefe
and other circumllances into confideration, the real
effeElive force will loon be confiderably reduced.—
The addition they have got to the regular army,
feems only to be s,OOO, or, as the Hon. Gentleman
hates, 76,000 men, out of the Army of Referve. It
neceffarily followed, that from the Army of Referve
recruits alone could be procured, as Minifters had ef-
fedually put a hop to all ordinary modes of recruit-
ing. As to the Militia, it was brought formerly to
great perfection, poffeffing every qualification which
troops could have, Short of regular fervice. Part of
the Army of Referve, may, perhaps, be good, but a
great part of it is bad, and not worthy the money
expended in railing it. What I may fay of Volun-
teers, does not relate to them perfonally, or individu-
ally, but to the fynem in general, takenindifcriminately.
I certainly cannot fay that they are a people who are
lame, or maimed, or even loch as would run away ;
on the contrary, I muff own, that no people can have
a greater zeal and intereft in the country, or in
the caufe they are engaged in than thefe Corps ;
but I can never approve of Minifters railing this
force, in preference to, and in prevention of- their
railing their Army of Referve. We cannot, indeed,
have a body of upwards of 670,000 men, without
their being atteaded with fome beneficial effects; but,
in the prefent cafe, every thing appears to be done
which can be done: they have pdt the people of the
country into fnch a Rate, that they cannot now be of
more ufe. cry of " hear P') I ftill molt argue,
that nothing is foForopletely falfc as the whole of that
fyftem. I now perceive the intention of his Majefty's
regulation, that the corps muff all be dreffed in red.
It thews what was meant to be done front the begin-
ning: fir* to rail, them into regiments, and then'
form them into brigades with the regular regiments.
I aver that furl an isle cannot be made of thofe peo-
ple. Yon muff not look at their zeal and difpofition,
nor even at their phyfical power, though flrong, ,
young, and alive men. We muff look to their fitu-
ation in civil focicty, and then we Shall find that they
are men incapable of being emptdyed • in Such a
manner. It is no reproach to a man that he has a
wife and family to attend to; it is no reproach that
he cannot quit his betfinefs without raining bimfelf
and his family. If we join Such Corps with the re-
gulars, we lofe the benefit of the whole. Men will,
no doubt, be willing to put themfelves to trouble for
a Short time, and even to expence, but can it
be thought expedient to fel:: fo many wives and
children a borthen to the peril); ? No, furely, ands
therefore we never can give thefe men that fort of
training which would be necefary to enable them to
as with troops of the line. Let us take an illaftra-
don in regard to the fea-fervice. Wby does a fri-
gate never overcome a Ship of the line in an engage-
ment? Is it becaufe the force-of the guns has not
been fufficient ? It may be on account of various
deficiencies : a Ship in aiaion requires a balance of
parts. It is the fame thing with a regiment .f the
line, if not equal in all its parts, officers would fay
that they could sot make de of them. They Should'
have been kept as an armed body at home, ready to
ad by themfelves upon an emergency, and to annoy
the enemy as far as their zeal could carry them.—
That excellent Officer, General Burgoyne, experien-
ced the effects of having Such troops Served up, as it
were, hot and hot. But, Sir, thcfe are not my only
objections to the Volunteer fytiem. I have objections
of infinitely greater importance to Submit to you. It
is the civil and political effects which mull inevitably
refult from it ; it is the danger of a debating milita-
ry corps, divided into Committees and Sob-commit-
tees, commanding their officers, in molt inftances, and
calbicring them in many. Cooftituted as the Volun-
teer fyttem is at prefent, it would perhaps not be
unavoidable, on the part of Government, to make as
little ufe of it as poffible. In refpea of another of
the meafures- of defence employed by Adminiftra-
don, if I follow the method of an ancient philofo-
pber. and divide it into animate and inanimate in-
Rruments, or military works, I have much conk
indeed for ferious inculpation. I do not mean at
prefent to allude to the works at Chelmsford, the
lines at Chatham, or the lines elfewhere I.—nor do
I mean to difcnfs their projea of drawing a line of
eircumvallation of ag miles sound the metropolis;—
approving of fuch a project one day, rejecting it a
few days after, and within a few weeks of Cush rcje,
Lion, actually giving orders for its execution. But
Sir, there is a part of this Country, which I mull I
may be permitted to fay (without the imputation of
difclofing any thing that Should be concealed) is
extremely open and vulnerable, I mean the coati of
Suffolk, Comb of Yarmouth, and down to the coati
of Mex, the latter, perhaps, the moll expofed part
of the kingdom. What meafures, what precautions
have the Government employed for the protection
of this part of the Mend? Perhaps they rely on the
circomftance of its proximity to the naval Ration at
Yarmouth, or to that of the Nore, if the latter can
be called one. I adage that is i. itapotfible to de-

fend fuch an extent of country by redoubts, manned
by a fess, troops, who feel that they cannot maintain
them ; that they mull he driven outof them,and there •
fore wouWnaturally refire after firing a round or two.
But has the Hon. Secrttary at war never read or
heard of the hitiory of the Martello Towers ? If
not, I will tell him, that a Britilb feventy-four gun
(hip, commanded by as brave a feaman as ever lie.
ed, lay for two hours within a quarter of a mik f
one of thofe towers, defended only by one gun and
half a dozen men, and that at lat he was obliged
to haul off, and give rap the conteß with the loft of
near fifty men. Why, Sir, has not the Hon. Secre-
tary, or thole with whom he alts, reforted to this
fyilem of defence ? Againß cavalry or infantry, its
effeas would be incalculable. The expence is incon-
fiderable, not above a thoufand pounds for each
tower ; and furely thirty or forty thoufand pounds is
a mere trifle in our fcale of expenditure. Inflead of
this, what have the Government done ? They have
recurred to the principle of Sea Fencibles, they have
armed a parcel of fiffiermen on the coati with pikes I
for the pike (as the Hon Gentlemen has officially
told us) is a formidable weapon in the hands of a
bold and noble Briton. Sir, this mode of defence
but ill accords with my ideas of a bold and noble
Briton ; it is not conliflent with that impreffion
which I have of the gallantry of my countrymen : it
conveys to my mind the idea of Moller Fribble in
,the play, pulhing off the enemy with bodkins and
knitting needles. I will not deny, Sir, that the em-
ployment of the Sea Fencibles may be feful in many
inflances, but I can never admit that the defence of
the coat ihould be in a great meafure left to them,
and that they are to fuperfede the neceffity of a more
effeaual and regular fyftem of fortification. There
has been, on the part of Government, an error, an
overfight, or an incapacity in their management and
arrangement of the national defence, which cannot
be too much reprobated, or too Coon correaed. They
tate ailed with a niggardly parfimony unbecoming
a great country; and there has been a difpofition to
draw money from the pockets of individuals, without
the knowledge of Parliament. Contrafting it with
the profufitfn of their expenditure on molt other occa.
lions, I can compare it to nothing but the ridiculous
and inconfinent behaviour of a man, who ['mold in.
vite his friends to a great dinner, where all the deli-
cacies of the feafon were ferved up—fruits, game and
peas at a guinea a quart—and yet grudges,fole Asti a
ckari talk dab. There is another part of the fyftem of
defence, which has been mot lamentably negkeed.
I mean that which relates to the eftabliniment of
fignals. Sir, in the county to which I have the ho.
flour to belong, for near eight months, no attempt, at
leaft no general effort, was made, to eilablilh that
fyftem oicommunication, upon which, perhaps, the
fakty of that part of the canary was principally
to depend. No man blew whole duty it was.
The Deputy Lieutenants would not do it becaufo
they were not fore of being reimburfed by the
county : the county could not do it, becaufe no
orden had been ifued to that effea by the Lord
Lieutenant ; fo that at left Come fpirited indivi.
duals undertook it, with the hope that they &add
be reimburfed from Come quarter or other. This
is a Ingle& in my eyes, of a molt unpardonable
nature. One would fuppole that this part of a de.
fenfive fyftem would be one of rite firlt that would
occupy the attention of a fagacious adminiftration g
that a code or plea of fignals, both naval and anti-
rary. would be one of their firft operations, ailing in
the latter inftance by a number of radii, with a cen-
trical point of communication. No, Sir, nothing of
the kind occupied their 'attention ; at INA I am war.
ranted in Paying Co, if I May be allowed to judge
from the circumllance that the whole coat was no.
provided in this refpea, and that which might have
been efeited in three weeks, remained for nearly
eight months unaccomplifhed. They appear to me,
Sir, to have placed all their reliance upon our line
of cruisers, upon the vigilance Jand aitivity of thole
brave men to whom the country cannot be too
_grate.
ful ; or, as it has been laid by a Noble Lord upon
Come other occafion, they have placed only a plank
between us and the greateft poffible danger. If
this be our canal Rate, let us now look a little to
oar probable future condition, and to the conftitu.
tion of the force which the Host. Gentleman fermi de-
firous to create. I know not to what arrangement or
ezpeaation he confides for the recruiting olehe army
hereafter. Solely he cannot look to the Volunteer
fyftem as a lirresotiol flora, or any thing better than
an ariificid rafts& The Volunteer fyffem. I repeat
it, is worn out ; it cannot go on much longer. It
has radical defeBs, which mutt weaken and de. •

tlroy it fooner or later. Ido not allude merely to
that monftrous incongruity, fo prevalent in it. of
miffing and fining by the authority of individuals.
or giving that power to Committees. No, Bir. it is
not merely to this vice, unconflitutional as it is, that
I principally refer, but it is to the drat that it has
upon all the other parts of our militarrfyfiem. The
Volunteers rob the Militia, and the Militia rob.the
Army. A difpolable force we mutt have, if we
mean to outlive this trills ; if we wills not to, I
won't fay petals, but if we with even to enfure any
thing like probable laity, even that fpecies of fafety
sr Mar the Government regards as the utmoft bowode
of their horizon, and beyond which all is clouds and
Jar kite& Now, Sir, what does this difpolable fora
amount tot Why, after all the State cookery, after
fiewing down pounds of beef, with dooms of chkkene,
a ham, and other ingredients, it turns out that the
regalar army has only acquired an addition of Si
thoufand men to the former elablithment. It h
iss-
pothbie, Sir. that a confiderabie efficient force ease
As the recruiting fyflem (lands at prefent. be collated
within any rearonable time. No, Sir, if you with to
render your army efficient, you muft totally abolifh
the practice of fubtlitution. Let a find fine in lieu
thereof be paid into the corers of the State. and let
the Government recruit the men without hating
any competitors in the market. There is alto an.
other chop is the pT;ncipis of mtrifigi

- 1

tom the fterpea a ttleaion I have been able to g., e
the Ribjea, I would mol feriontly recommend, and
that is, to cnlitl al c men for a term of years, in- i
Read or the iiinai mode of enrolling them fin- life. 1
It is a poiaire which I am perfacnied will not he
deftruilve to the army : it has hero ref-moat to •
in every war, 111 d frail/ U'IIICII no evil confequences ale
likely to enthe. Your Volunteers too may he turned , •
to flute ai:vantage, in this refloa. Inficad of de- 1
bating in Committees, in putting on fine coats, ant
't., IC'. them new ideas, " rm.: ..tryi.'ia neva fres ;" let
them volimieer, but let it be for general firvice, so t
reltriOiag then-delves to the defence of this town or
too villago or to march ten miles in one direaion,
and twice as many in another ; but let them reale to
be volanteers, t:iat is, to have paramount inelina-
ti ins of their own, the moment they have enrolled ;
a..d &bike themfelve., entirely up to the command
of thole u hoot-. the country has appointed to wield its
means of defence. Thule arc my ideas of an efficient
nail:my on cc ; and I molt conlefs that I have been
notch dill pooin
i ted in what fell from the Min. Secre-
tary this eveniag, for I did not expect that be would
have confined hinifelf to the mere routine of his office.
I would iliy to him, do as little as pollible in a coin
rico' y way, ha do not, for the lake of that phan-
tom, popularity, pet levvre in a fyllem which may
endanger the vital hoe' ells of the State. You can-
not let too loon about correaing the vices of it.
Your Army of Referee, on which you appeared to
place fuch immediate reliance at the end of haft sec-
lion, was not ready in two months after, and even
now only gives you a stifporable force affix thoufand
men. You lhould have taken meafures to unlock the
mar. of your population, to unletter the energies of
t'te people, and, above all, to deftroy the praftice of
fiOotiiution, which, if once admitted, cuts up the
met ket for ever. By purfuing thefe meafures, and
by regolating that main hinge, the volunteer fyftem,
you will he enabled to eftablith and fecure to the
ciamtry that fine qua not, a numerous and efficient
army. I regret, Mr. Chairman, that I have tref-
pitied on your patience, and that of the Houfe, much
linger than I intended."
Hon. Mr. Yoe xe......" Sir, after the very long, and
certainly very entertaining fpeech, which you have
jult heard, I fear that I Iliall neither merit, nor be
able to obtain from you and the Houfe, that patience
and that attention which I 'hall have ample occifi, n
for, in replying to the attacks that the Hon. Gentle-
man has made on the, and moll of the meafures of
the prefect adminiltration. The Hon. Gentleman
has quoted a paffage of very indifferent poetry, to
prove that there is " nothing good we fay, or nothing '
tight we do ;" hut, in my opinion of the country,
and cf. this Houle, the relent Government, if I am
to judge front the experience of the left Sellion of
Parliament, or the aftual feelings of the people, has
little to apprehend from the °pixilation of the Hon.
Gentleman, or the application of what he has quoted.
During that feafion, it mull be admitted, that we
heard many excellent oppofizion fpeeches (and I
fhould be lorry that the Hnn. Gentleman were de-
prived of she opportunity of amufing and inflruaing
the Houfe), but then we had to let off againft them
Come good mit:Melia' votes, the cordial and zealous
flappogt of a very great majority of this Houfe. The
Hon. Gentleman has begun by condemning the con-
ttitution of the army, confidering it as the whole of
a military fyftem ; and has enforced, with all the do- il
quence and ingenuity that he is matter of, the neeef- 1
fsty of a total alteration in it. For confidering. he 1
lays, the power, the means, and the intentions of
France, it is abfolutely incumbent on us to circa an
entire change in our military fytlem. I need fcareely
repeat to the Hon. Gentleman, that peculiarly con-
Aituted as the army of this empire is, there is no
power, lave and except the omnipotence of Parlia-
ment, that can operate thole changes he fo forcibly
recommends. The fanBion of the Legiflature mutt
precede the improvements (if improvements they
are), that the Hon. Gentleman advifes. I have no
objetnion to taking the whole of our military fyftem
under general confitieration, provided that the Hon.
Gentleman will have the prudence to omit the mi-
mite details; for I truft that every one who, hears
me will allow, that a Committee of this Houfe is not
the belt or the fitteft place to go into an accurate ex-
amination of the merits or defe&s of Such a compli-
cated fyllem. The Hon. Gentleman has found
much caufe for difapprobation, in the defencelefs and
vulnerable Rate in which Come part of the coalt has
been fuffered to remain. in reply to this I will frank•
ly admit, that it is not in as good a Rate of defence as
it might have been, confidering our means and the
flint of the people L but Rill I fhall contend, that it I
is lolly Sufficient for the proteaion of the country, 1,
and capable of affording a very ferions refinance to •
any probable effort of the enemy. The Hon. Gen-
tieman has been particularly (evert in his condemna
tam% of two treaftirc of the Government, which took
place immediately after the figning of the peace of
Amiens, the dilbanding of the arrr.7, and the dia.-
arming and Oilmantling of the navy. I molt, SO,'
milt folemnly in otdt againft the view which Slut
Hon. Gentlar.,n Lis taken of thole nseafores, for the
trot Rate of the I..nti, will not jollity the inferences
he has endea vim cd to draw 110111 them. At no pe-
riod of out 'into] y ti: a. there, at the condor-ion of a
peace, an eltablithnient, both naval and military,
a ter maintained, that would fopport any comparibm
oafs that votiol and benaioned by this Houle, futile.
yr!. to the rutheation of the Dcfioitive Treaty.—
f to time of ,L.it which took place in the cavalry, in
s' hitch I admit it was confiderable, the diminution in •
the re 2, of out force, the infancy I mean, was very
ti -f indeed; not more than 7,000 men out of rite
mlvlc of our icgoLir army. The tell of thole d,l
balift...l Va7e comps whole Services were limited, J
, parity counting of 1 coed battalions, who volunteer
ed hoot the militia, %t hole time was within a year of
expiration, and will fe Cervices, for that Ilion time,
Colie•l:tilel.r, tor v r y engem and prudential rcaf.rns,
de:mei it adv:fable to ditrenfe with. With regard
to the t.umetiral enumeration of our force, I can
meet the lion. Gctolcaiati, not early with plc-dole.
but with Millilitre cootadence on that head. I %Oil!
Rate, for the infoimmion of that 1-lon. Gentlionan,
and for the fatidaco in of 11,:t Houle, tha; our regular
lot re has beers n• arit finiibled face lad Si:llion of
Parlianicnt. lidola of Silty thoufand, we have row 1
an cTeaire regular Since of roe hondic.l and twenty I
. .

.1
1 'hour:ad men. In thi•auta:—....r I certainly matt to
1 inclode the Amy cf fi1:...:,,, ul, c!, liit been inenr-
. a-

military parpore, is as t f11,97ve as any regnlars, al-
tr,iiigii, lan acciittfing to a phi ale the Right
H sn. Gentleman's, " they have not vet tot the grafs
out of them." In anftrer to the Rt.:ion. Gerr!eman's
ohjeßions to the reterved battalions, I w.ll allow that
although they may not be as good as the others, (tall
uciil maintain that Inch is the I.,e,teral praCtice in all or
1.1 the gnat military fervices of Europe. There
is Icarcely one it them in which the pra6lice does not
prevail of ettabildring tele. red battalions, or batta-
-1...ns I.f . Such a rot of .t military fyttem is not
una tended with gt eat titilit y ; it is equal to many and
very imi.ottaut tervices, for and rtakin2 garrilim
duty fur initance, and by that means relieving the
taps of the line, and aild•Tig to the difporeable force
of the country. As to th: Militia, I affert that they
are as good as ever. 'their number amounts to
above feventy amt.:mil in England, and to fourteen
thoufand in Scotland. They have been iafpeCted
and teen under arms by a number of General officers,
and they have extorted the applaufe as approba-
bation of every perfon of military eminence who has
fern them. The Volunteers, as I before fated,
amount to upwards of 379,n00, among whom there
are 340,m0 infantry, with a proportion, and ce.t-
tainly no inconfiderable one, of I 7,0r50 officers. The
tell of the Volunteer force is made up of cavalry and
I artillery ; and it is this numerous body of men, dilci-
plined almolt as weli as any equal body of men could
be in the time, that the Right Hon. Gentleman is
pleafed to confider as not an effedive force. Al.
though, Sir, they may not at the outlet be capable
of Meeting a regular army in a line of battle, a cir-
curnftance by the bye, not much to be apprehend-
ed, or expelled in a country like this, yet fill there
are many porfible contingencies in which they may
be eminently ufeful. By ailing on the flanks and rear
of the enemy ; by making demonftratinns ; by con•
etribating, mitts their numbers, to encreafe to the eye
of the enemy the magnitude of our regular force ;
on thefe and fimilar occafions, they will not p:ove, as
the Hon. Gentleman has fait!, an ineffc'live force,
but a formidable and highly efficient one : and when-
ever the aftual fruggle comes, whenever they are to
contend for their country and their homes, for every
thing that is dear to their feelings and to their ho-
nour, I am confident that they will all he found to
do their duty, and that many of them will enter into
the line. As to the Right Hon. Gentleman's ob-
jeaion to their clothing, I mull allow that it is a
matter of regret, that they have not all adhered to
the national colour, and principally becitule a de-
parture ,fiom it may occafion fame confnlion. I
even am tempted to with, that they had all adopted
the regulation clothing, although that is not of lo
very much importance, as it is impoffible, when
ailing in large bodies, that an enemy could &din-
guilh the difference at a few hundred yards diltance.
l'he Right Hon. Gentleman, as he conceives, has
made a hill more rennin objeaion against Ishnifters,
for he afferts that the volunteer ()Item at firli made
an part of their means of defence. Sir, in reply to
this, I will only recal to this Houle an Ad which
paired in the year Idea, in which, among others,
there were extract's provifions, not only for continu-
ing the old volunteers, but even for accepting new
offers. Sir, it mutt be in the recollection of Gentle-
men, that loch an Aft was before this Houle, and
that it created no difcufion. It was in vain that I
' minted to call the attention of the Houle to the whole
of our military and volunteer fyilem. The provi-
fions and principles of that Bill pallid through the
Houle, as I am lorry to fay many ads have paired,.
' with little comment, and as little attention. Surely,
if there had been any thing vicious in that fyttem, it
fbould have been retitled hs &aim. The general De-
fence AR, as it is entitled, did not embrace the vo-
lunteer fyttem, nor was it meant to fuperfede it.—
The propolition for 'concreting the patinas, if vo-
lunteers thould offer to a certain event, was made
with the unanimous concurrence of this Howe. The
whole nation rote as one man, and it was from that
cattle that the idea of parochial companies was laid
afide. Was Inch ao inspetuona and gallant difpoti•
tion on the part of the people to be rejefted by us ?
Were we to fay to them we won't accept your Cer-
vices, we will felon to our compulfory means I' Sir,
I need ant fug ell to the Right Hon. Gentleman
how culpable, Mould &lama fay, how criminal, Go-
vernment would have been, if they had not availed
themfelves of the fpirit of the people—a fpirit which
we have never endeavoured to teprefs, as the Hon.
Gentleman has charged us with, but which, on the
contrary, we have done every thing to promote. As
to the Rate of the arfenals, though that appertains
more immediately to the Ordnance department, I will
affertoliat they never were more abundantly provided.
Upwards of 400,000 flandof arms have been dif ribut-
ed, and it was the queftion of arms, and the queltion ref
exeinpti ins, which firil compelled the Government to
the determination of reariding the extent of the Vo-
lunteer fyttem. I lament, that I porrefs not the ability
to reply to the whole of the ingenious fpeech, which
the Right Hon. Gentleman has delivered. With
regard to his obfervation about a directing mind, I,
for my own part, will admit, that I am not fortunate
enough to philefs all the talent that the Right Hon.
Gentleman does, hut I will not yield to him, or any
man, in the dirpolition to ferve the country with
zeal, and, I quit, with effect. We, Sir, will do right,
if we can, and while we do fn, we will expel the rup-
port of the country. With regard to the principle of
li,rtifying, althoil„h that it the exclitlive province
of the Board of Ordnance, yet I than make a few
obfervaf.uns on that branch of our military fyttem.
I entirely coincide with the idea, that fecttrity is our
belt irconimy ; and I will candidly allow, that in my
opinion, that part of our fy Item has been too much
neglected, and it is on that account, that the plan
which was (Omitted to Parliament, fo far back as
the year '786, had not been adopted. Not that I
think, contilting, ..s the population of this country
of a brave and ga loon race of men, Im-rounded
by the lea, and encircled by a navy the moil nu-
mernus, enterprising and well-appointed of any in the
world, that we have any etcc•fian to refutt to a very
estenfive phin cf that Ipeeics of defence. AS to the
:,;,;r:er,r towers, which the Right Hon. Gentleman
has terommended fn ttrongly, And tile advant.tges of
which he has •11141 rated lo clearly by an initance
which I (hall rot attempt to difpute, I sriil fay that
their erlablithn.ent depenus npon the •.pii.ion of mi-
litary off.eers,and, is advifeable, molt certainly thould
he atittpted, wherever they are praCticable. To the
obiefrons which the Right Hi.n. Gentleman has
0••• o 0nt0...14r node taf emoivrinz the Se*

Fella;les,l will obferve, that it is intended that Come
further arrangements, with relpeet to that branch of
the national defence, should he made in this Sefton.
Conftituted as they are, even at. this moment, they
ate eminently ufeful. They are competent to the
manning of the gun boats, and in that capacity, I
am convinced, would be more than a match for any
force of the fame kind that France could fend againit
us. Indeed, I think 1 should not fay too much, if I
hazarded the affertion that they would he able to
beat all its boalled flotillas. ..The Right Hon. Gen-
tleman has Paid much about adopting a compulfory
ly Rem of recruiting the army by a novel and rather
extraordinary mode of putting an end to the Volun-
teer fyllem. I do not know, at leaft I have not made
up my mind to fry, whether the kind of compulfion
the Right Hon. Gentleman recommends, be ltrielly
conflitutinnal or not. I know that it is within the
omnipotence of Parliament to ordain it, but I much
doubt that the army could ever be efficiently recruit
ed by adopting the fyllem of fining, and employing
the revenne drawn therefrom in the manner the Right
Hon. Gentleman has fuggelled. Much leg do I ap-
prove of the praelice reforted to on former occafions,
I mean, that of allowing individuals to raife regi-
ments. The bad effects of that fy Item have been felt
from experience, and it has not been thought advife-
able to recur to it again. I think there is but one
more of the Right Hon. Gentleman's fuggettions,
which it is neCetretry for me to advert to, and that is,
the recommendation of calling for a certain term of
years. To this there is one inseparable objeetion, and
that is, that it could not be done without diforganiz-
ing the whole of our military fyftem ; for it mull be
extended to the whole of the army, or it would ine-
vitably produce jealoulies and diffatisfaCtion, that
might prove fatal to that lid& difcipline, and prompt
obedience aad alacrity, without which an army is
nothing. lam aware that filch a practice prevailed
in the Außrian fervice, and I know that it was one
of the greatest defects in it. Let any man only con-
fider the confequence that would attend the adoption
of filch a fyllem, particularly if a number of troops
were ordeied abroad, whole period of fervice was
nearly exoired, and who pallbly might have a claim
to be difcharged before they could arrive half way
to the place of their dellinatiern. lam Pure when the
Right Hon. Gentleman reflects a little upon what he
has thus recommended, he will have gond fenfe
enough to perceive the utter impracticability of it,
and candour enough to acknowledge it. I have thus,
as far as I am able, replied to eve, y obfervation of
the Right Hon. Gentleman, which I have conceived
to be material. 1 regret that I have been obliged to
trefpafs In long upon the patience of Gentlemen, and
that they have been In ill repaid for the attention
they have after led me."
Mr. Pirr.—" 1 do not rife to purfue the fubjetl
before the Committee into any extenlive details; nor
am I inclined, in the prefent (tate of the country, to
examine minutely what has been done lince fait Se r.
lion of Parliament, or how far the means entrufted to
Government have been exerted moil effectually for
the important objefts for which they were intended.
am only anxious to direel my whole attention to the
prefent moment. Confides ing the danger as by no
means palt—confidering the crifis of the country as in
a greater degree preffing, i am inclined to look at
nothing rest ofpeaively, but to confider only the bell
means of completing thole meafiires which are neeef-
fary for our future tecurity. Ido not even profpec-
tiveiy mean to examine the whole of this important
quellion ; I with, as far as poffible, to confine myfelf
to the nature, amount, and management of the mili-
tary force flared in the eflimate. In the firft place, I
confider that our regular force fhould be kept on an
high tooting ; I confider our regular army to have
arrived at that date of perfection which it is in vain to
hope we ever can give to any other part of our mili-
tary force, but I remain firmly fixed to that opinion,
which lag fealon was the general opinion of Paths.
ment ; and whatever I may think of the conduct of
Government, I mutt acquit them of all blame, if they
have adhered to that which was the opinion of Par-
liament. I agreed with Parliament that it could not
to be a regular army alone, but to a great national
face, whether railed, as was at fiat intended, corn•
pulfively, or, as happily was the cafe, by the volun-
tary zeal and ardour of the country, that we mutt
look for our fecurity. I do look to the Army as
the rallying point, as that to which the Volunteers
are to direct their attention. I confider the Regulars
as thole by whole example Volunteers are to be form•
ed, and in addition to which they may become, on
their own foil, invincible. I look to the army as the
force which forms the great body of national defence;
but I hope to fee that force employed, not in defen
five operations at home, but in active diver fion againß
the enemy abroad. I lank to the Voluntary Force '
as that which is not only a confiderahle and impor-
' tant addition, while our army is chained to our own
coati ; but as a force which in time, and I try(' in no
very long time, will be In matured as to render the
army dilpidable any where oat of the country, if the
annoyance of the pone:lions of the enemy, or if the
profpeet of effecting the deliverance of Europe from
its prefent bondage lhould render it practicable. It
is with this view, that fo far from lamenting there
has been fo large a voluntary force railed, I rejoice
at its having been formed. With regard to its
amount and extent, I fee nothing to complain of. I
Ilionld be the lull man to complain of its bring ton
large, and I do not think it is materially too fmall.—
If I have a with upon the ftilajeet, it is perhaps that
the proportion in which the numbers have been
diltributed had been better arranged: I cannot but
regret, that, large as they are, they ate not larger
at the molt expoled and vulnerable parts of our ma
ritime coati. Not entirely concurring in the general
rule adopted lan fettioni, I would fix the minn.ers at
fie times the Militia; :it I am fort;ticd, by obvious
conliderations of the plan lance, and by the moll re•
keel tble military autlisiity, when I fay, that a numb
Im.iiler force, it it can meet the enemy at the mo-
ment of landing, can do more than many times that
amount at Inch ditlance in the country as to he in-
! capable of being brought into immediate action.—
It it was only a quetli.oi as to the more economical
mode, not with regaid v+ the money, but of the
number of lives that wont.] be 1011, and tile r:tian-
tity of blond Ihed, I fbould fay it a ould b.re been
a better thing, if it enuld have been found peaftica.
ble, to have had a larger proportion of troops at Inch
a dißince from the coati, that they could encounter
the enemy at his landion. It is hardly neceii:4l y to
Rate, that although every Otitis ftcni we center to

r

the extremity of the king,lom would he brought into
motion long btforz the czcmy could make any con
fi lerable progrefs, yet to contemplate their cumin*
t 3 that progress, in which dittant Volunteers would
have to Italian to meet them, would he to admit des
vaflation, mifcry, and disgrace. On the other hand,
wishing that no fpecies of fecurity fhould be defec-
tive, and that when we are making every e7ertion,
we fhould be looking to repair eves y difafler that the
molt improbable chance of war can produce, it is no
fmall gratification, that while We are preparing the
means of preventing the enemy afeending the beach,
we are, ()mid he fitcceed in effecting a landing, fur..
nilhing army upon army to oppole him, preventing
thole confequences which would refult from an intl.
feluat uppolition. Ido nut, therefore comend, that
having a large number of .troops in the interior, it
is neceffary they fhould be lefs ; but I infift, that
you had a larger number at .the coati, you would
make the count' y pert fly fecure. This coalmen,:
I urged last Settion, and I repeat it, as I am 'Yrixe
ious that the voluntary force Ihould be rendered more
etteStal. I would have it not an anomalous force,
not for the purpofe of alarming the enemy by num.
hers difplayed on paper, but that force which would
give us a pet manent army, improving in difciplines
and approaching, year after year, as near as the na-
ture of Volunteer Corps will admit, to military per-
leaion. lam apprehenfive, that, as far us the chi.
iIIeITCS apply to this force, no provifions are contain,
ed in them for giving any greater degree of fydent,,
difcipline, and improvement to it, than it is in the
road to obtain under the inflitution at this moment.
With as enthuliaftic an ardour as any man for that.
inilitution, and with a proud fenfe of the honour the
country has done itfelf, yet it does not appear to me, as
far as I have been able to form an opinion, that we fhall
do juhicetothe zeal and energy of the nation in i sown
defence, if we do not adopt means for rendering the
volunteer force more efficient, and efficient on a mora
permanent fyflem. I hold an opinion the reverie
of what has been dated by my Honourable Friend.
So far am I from thinking there is too much in the
prefent fyflem for giving the Volunteers difcipline,
that lam of opinion there is too little. I have no
idea that the ()item of Volunteers is that of a rude
mafs of individuals in whole hands arms are put ; if
that was the cafe we fhould want nothing more than
an enrolment, all the expence of chrathing and dril-
ling might be faved. I conceive the whole (Nett of
the fyflem adopted lad year was gradual improve.
ment in military knowledge and difcipline ; every
one mull be fenfible it cannot be acquired at once;
the lyltem is, to make a great number of men do
more than the fame number would do without it, and
to apt with lees rifque to the Country, and kfs dan-
ger to thernielves ; and I take it, that hy giving a
certain degree of difcipline, you will produce with
lets lids a greater certainty of victory. lam per-
loaded, that, to render a Volunteer force more eta.
cient it ought to be difciplined univetfally : and that
its efficiency is nothing, while the corps contra of in-
dependent istimpaviies. They ought all to be formed
into battalions. Whenever they can affemble fre-
quently, it fhould be done ; and they caw fcarcely
be to fcattered as not to wider it praillicable. They
would from this circumtlance, be fubjedt to an in.
fpetion and contrnul highly beneficial to them. The
next meafitre to be looked to is the giving every bat-
talion what they are molt demons of Obtaining, I
mean the Alliance of Officers of Service, to aid them
in forming. I think there fhould not be lefs-to every
battalion than one Field Officer and an Adjutant of
the Army, maintaining their rank and receivingpay
as if ailing with the Regulars. 7 Mr aware the ex.
pence will be confiderable, but when I know and
fee the difference herween a battalion which has had
the advantage of the Field Officer who has been bred
to the proleflion, and thole which have only had the
zeal and attendance of their own Officers, I muff
lay, that the difference of expence might not to be
regarded, and that the advantage of giving fuck a
' degree of perfeidion to the volunteer force of the
country would be cheaply porchafed. I am not able
to form any accurate eflimate on a vote which
is only on account, but I think there can be no al.
lowance made for what I have deferibed. Neither
am I able to judge what proportion of force confab of
thofe Volunteers that were railed ander the tams prior
to the 3d of Auguft, and thofe of a different Merit).
don ; neither know I to what number an Adjutant
has been given ; but I do not think that the wholes
expence would amount to t 60,000 or stfo,oool. a
year. Now, if by that we (fall be enabled to minim
a confiderable progrefs in military difcipline, togeivs:
efficiency to 3 or +OO,OOO men, and improve
year after year, fn that they may be brought to it
date of perfeftion which will enable them to affift the
regular army, fore I am no Gentleman will hefitate
to fay that any general expence, compared with the
advantage, would be improper. But I would not
flop there; I certainly cannot conceive that the mei-
lure I have hated can completely anfwer its purpofe
with the very (lender number of days left to difciplina
the corps, except with refped to thole accepted before
the 3d of Augull. The number of diem, I under-
hand, is. 40,000, all the red are not allowed to re-
ceive ray for more than 2c, &AO, now that so days
ire rot enough, is not only the opinion of thole Ad-
jutanb, of whom I have enquired, but el Govern-
ment ; for I obferve, that in one of the regulations it
is hated, that the Adjutant (hall have pw when
is certified that the corps have been enter'
Unluckily it happens, that thofe corps, wl
titled tc, have Adjutants, are only to
for zo days. Now, it is impoffible to
year after year we tan be taking
gain their livelihood by their labour,
employments for fo long a period as
If it is neceffary ihey fhould be exceeded .
a time, they fhould be allowed fufficient
throld be inclined to hope, not with.
any neceffary expence, that A lets numb-el
would be adequate to every purpofe of mit
t pline ; but I think there ought to be comfit
'than twenty days allowed. Perhaps, if
fifty or fusty for the nest year, and forty
ter, fo as to keep up the dilcipline of
would be all that would be reqnifite.

out this by way of luggellion. the pence;
be (Ili-plied by others. If it is Adop:e,t, it
a year for each man. • Stipp. fe
tea ci ceding 500,0001. to the annual ct
in re,orit you maintain an inmy of f ici
pa A rsi tdii I floe of improvement, 1 k,
C-trunittcc to Ur, whether it is not

I

pay. when it
cifed 84 day
which are e
receive pa
fuppoie tha
perfons wh
, out of th'
is 4 day'.
NJ for fo lon
cient pay
iing to fp
mber than
military difc
ifierablym
if
ththetralre
yearl
alelifsyranea,n:
era
add
it
it
,:timates. a
ch magnitio
cave it to t
the cheap

r

, .

mode of providing for the fafety of the country that
can be 'Trotted to? If for any of the purpofes I have
Rated it thould be neceffary to detach the regular
army ; if the enemy, by the advantage cf the winds,
Mould elude our fleets, and effect a landing ill Ire-
land, is there any man who will fay there Yt any
fecurity for this Empire, if we cannot let apart a great
portion of the force of the kingdom ? If we do not
Tender the volunteer force effeetual to every purpofe
of military operation, you will fee the experiment
made to carry into execelon the threat of the enemy.
'1 do craft to the natural valour of Englithmen, but I
klo not flatter myfFlf that that force, powerful as it
`may appear upon paper, is the one on which we
'ought to rikue the tatety of this Mond, in the event
!of our being under the neceflity of fending a great
part of the regular force to Ireland. I believe, how-
'ever, there is not a Gentleman who hears me, who
does not concur with me in the opinion I before Min-
ted, that we ought to recur td the probability of our
forcing the enemy to abandon his defigns- If, by
the exertion of our native valour, we thoulil force
the French from our :bore, and compel him to
'retreat to his own—if we tbould excite the fpirit of
thofe nations on the Continent, at prefent in the mott
abjeet hate of fupinenefs—if the contemplation of
our fnecefsful refinance fhould route them to at-
tempt the recovery of what they have 1011, is there
any man who would not et ifh we ihould have the
means of aCGtting them—if the appearance of a
Erni& army ihould be likely to effect a general
change in the affa:t sof the Continent—if the prof
pat was opened to us of wrelting froth the enemy
his Majefty's Eleltoral dominions, inducing a more
a-ational fyftem of politics in the North of Europe,
and raying to Holland that ancient Government,
which the ambition of Fran:e had annihilated,
is there any. Gentleman who thinks we thould be
doing juftice to the fpirit of the country, if we did
not avail ourfelves of the means of obtaining thefe
advantages ? If the fum of soo,oool. would give that
degree of improvement to the Volunteers, which
would enable us to difpenfe with the fervice of the
regular army at home, 1 trlllt the Comrnittee will think
with me, that fuch an advantage would more than
counterbalance any doubt as to the expediency of the
=feature. I own that it will be a great fatistadion to
me to find that thefe ideas are likely to be affented to
by the Committee. It will be important, fluoald it
be advifeable at all, that they Ihonld be adopted as
(non as potlible. We have gone through that period
in which the danger was molt likely to have alfailed
as, but we ought not, even in winter, to relax our
exertions. At the fame time, without indulging a falfe
fecurity, we may be allowed to fuppofe, that, at a pe-
riod when the ports of Holland are blockaded by the
Aaron, the danger of invation from that part of the
lef than it has been for fame months pall. We
have time then, during the winter, to fupply what is
wanted for bringing to perfeCtion our volunteer fyl-
- in order thtt, before the arrival of fpring, the
country may obtain every feeurity it can poffibly
derive front fuch a force. If it is right to have thele
officers from the regular army, it may be a work of
time to arrange them, b.:fore they can produce the
advantages to be expetted from them. It will be
aeceffary they tbould become acquainted with the
officers with whom they are to act, with the quarters,
and other matters of detail, equally important. All
this fbould he done during the winter futon, in order
that when it is practicable to edercife the corps, they
&child be in every refpeet complete. With this view,
I am anxious on this night to mark the opinion
of Parliament ; and if what I have recommended is
thought right, I ihould with to afford time, at all
events, before the Chriltmas meets, to vote loch ad-
ditional funts, under the head of Volunteers, as

would be neceffary to anfwer all the objets of that
great and important fervice. I urge this now, be-
caufe it is the only part of the fubjea that calls for
obferration. There are many other points worthy
of being difcuffed at fubfequent periods of the Seffion
but this meafare, if it is right, preffes on the Rauh:
'meanie the vote this night will exclude the queftion,
for by limiting the espence, it will have no rule. Ad-
mitting of the espence I have mentioned, there are
other points which require confederation, but not re•
ferring to fubjeas which require a vote of money, it
is unnsceffary to go into them with particularity.—
/yen when thefe meafures are taken, or others, for
giving, in the SA inliance, all the efficiency of mili-
tarydifeipline to our volunteer force, it appears tome,
that the objet I have in view cannot be carried into
efea merely by the initiation that can be given by
geld officers, Adjutants, and additional drill days,
without. other regulations that (hall enfure the main.
taking the volunteers at the numbers which have
been thought neceffary, alfo provide for the punau.
nifty of attendance, and promote attention, and thofe
habits which are nimeffary for forming foldiers., Cer-
tainly, without having recourfe to martial law, thofe
habits my be produced. without which it is impof .
hie to render a force like this efficient. I fhould be
inclined to chit that when this queflion admits of
farther con lideraSon, looking. a r we mutt, to the long
duration of this contell, we might have that refpea-
able fyflem of defence which is neceffary for the fe-
corky of the country. We have feen what the ardour
of the country will do. awakened as it has been by
she authority of Parliament • perhaps the fame zeal,
with very little more, will be all that i 3 neceffary for
the accomplilhatent of that which will be, indeed, a
rind triumph for this country. Perhaps what I have
;welted will be the only improvement required
in the Volunteer Syftem. It may, and I Knit it
will, make our haughty enemy renounce his pitied
as impraaicable ; and we may fee that which, nest to
defeating his ambition, cannot but afford a fource
of exultation. Our foe will appear in the eyes of all
Europe as one who, after having reconnoitred our
Country, has found it unaffailable. But our triumph
if not tempered by the recolleition of what may
!a= afterwards, sill be of no avail ; we mull re-
D with whom we are contending ; if our erte-
sr does apparently renounce his defign, let us not,
niter he has lulled us into a belief of recarity. give
him the opportunity of threatening us a lecond time.
and, perhaps, attacking as without that warning we
have bad on the prefent meal-son. We mull again
eve& to be taken off our guard. Gould we im
pinata* let down the force of the country. It
may happen that the minds of the people of this coun-
try mat indulge in Pelf-congratufatlun even at the
appearance of the enemy hoping even up the pro.
jell of iavalloo. How likely it as that the fpirit
which has boa she remit; ei the Came; her the

lall ten months, and that tilt Volunteer fylem vrhich
has refulted from it, would linger for a time, or nioul.
der away, till the period when we fhould have to meet
the fudden hut long medit nod attack, without the
means of repelling it. I think, therefore, it ought to
be a part of the dutyoftheLegiflature, without (hewing
any di if tuft of the people or their fpirit, to prepare
again IL filch a relaxation of the public ardour. It is
no proof of diftrull to think of them, and to diret their
zeal by the wifdom of the Great Council of the Nation
rather than troll to individual activity to Ripply the
duties of Government. If fn, it will be for the Com-
mittee not to leave it open to the it Terence, that any
fenfe of fecurity fhould induce Parliament to difband
the force neceffary for the d .fence of the country.—
Some meafore, perhaps, ought to be adopted, like
the eompulfory claufe of tite tall lemon, which Ihould
immediately commence its'operation when the num-
bers of the Volunteer Corps were deficient. On
the principle I have already Rated, of not looking
to numbers alone, I Mould fay, that the application
of the compulfory Aft Ihould not depend merely on
the numbers of the Volunteers, but their complying
with chore duties neceffary for maintaining the force
in a proper Rate of difcipline. This applies to their
punetualattendanee, their orderly and foidier-like con-
du& The regulations to this effect need be but few
and limple,but they thould be firieily enforced by fines,
to be rtcovered in a fummary tratiner. It is only
tilofe corps which complied with the regulations I
am (peaking of, that fhould difcharge a &aria from
the effect of the compulfory claufe in the General
Defence Alt. One of the rules fhould be, that a
Volunteer having entered into a corps, Ihould not be
fuffered to depart without providing another of filch
an age as fhould render him an adequate fubliitute.
I do not (late this as a fubjeft which is fit pelting
before the recefs ; but as to the other part, I have
only to repeat, that if it is right at all, it is neceffary
it fhould be adopted immediately, that we may reap
the advantages of it in the fpring. It will be too late
after the reed's. I Ihould be happy to hear that it
is the intention of the Right Honourable Gentleman
to amend the climate ; if not, I fhould with to pro-
pole a vote of soo,oool. on account of the Volunteer
Service. There is another fubjeet which it would be
wrong wholly to omit, I mean the queftion of what is
the footing in which the Volunteers are to Rand as to
the exemptions from the army? It remained doubtful
after laft Seflion what were the exemptions ; but as the
fubjed now Rands, it is generally underflood that no
I Volunteer is entitled to exemption unlefs he has a co.-
tificate of fervice for twenty days previous to the 24th
of Sept. delivered prior to that time. I underftand it
is no exemption if he has ferved, unlefs he has a cer-
tificate. It was not fuppofed at the time that the
certificate was at all neceffary. It was intended to
give the exemption• furely then it ought not to be
taken away, on account of perfons ignorance of what
.is merely a point of form ; a cafe may happen, and
I believe has happened. of perfons having exercifed
forty days, and not thinking a certificate necelfitry,
have negleCted to apply for it. Stippofe they base
ferved that number of days before the z4th of Sept.
and twenty-one days fince, yet if these are any ballots
prior to the z4th of January, I fee no means by
which they can be exempted. A ballot takes place to
a large amount at Chritimas : I would ads, whether
it may not include perfons to whom Parliament held
out the hope of exemption ?If it is the difpofition of
Isßnilters to let this queltion right, it fhould be done by
a (hart Bill before the reefs. there is another point
I have underflood it to have been Rated, that thefe ex-
emptions are not to be given unlefs the volunteer 'hall
have been muttered and exercifed with arms. I would
put this to the cenifideration of Gentlemen. We under-
Rand, that upon fo great a call upon the zeal and pa-
triotifm of the nation, his Majely's Rotes could not
fuliply a fufflcient number of aims. I am not fur-
priced it fhould have been fo, confidering at what a
fcale we were adding to our military force. From
what were provided-for the Militia, the quantity of
arms fent to Ireland, and the fupply of the navy, I
am ndt furprifed that Government was unable to
give arms to all, but they were all invited to come as
Volunteers, and had been accepted, and although
they have not had arms, there are many parts of the
inftruftions neceffary for a foldicr which may be given
without arms. Will it be fuppofed that Volun-
teers who have been exercifed in marching. and in
the different evolutions without arms, are not entitled
to the exemptions held out to them ? I am glad
to fee, by the manner in which this is received
by his Majely's Mit.iflers, that this is not the cafe;
certainly it would be extremely inconfiftent with fair
dealing. At all events, it is not a thing that ought
to be left indißiat, or merely for the fake of adjourn.
ing a day or two loaner, put off till February, run-
ning the chance in the mean time of perfons being
drawn at Chrilmas. I flatter myfelf, that before
the adjournment, fomething will be done to fatisfy
the claims of the VcAtinteers, and the pledges which
Parliament has given them. Whatever may be my opi-
nion on the great variety of fubjeets which grow out
of the prefent quellion, I with not to move any thing
in the bufinefs of to-night that interferes with the na-
tional defence. 1 with to feleCt only thole points which
are molt preffing, and therefore 1 mean to abflain for
the prefent from urging any other except one ; I
allude to the force of Sea Fencibles. I agree that if
it had been intended to take the Sea Fencibles from
among thofe pea-Cons who were liable to the imprefs
fervice, it would have been a meafure extremely dan-
gerous and improper. I Rioted fay alto, that if they
were to Rand with pikes in their hinds behind batte-
ries, they would be a very ridiculous and ureters body
of men ; but knowing the nature of that force, and
that it is coanpofed of men pecUliarly fitted for die
management of gunboats, and whole main objeß is
to be employed afloat, I lament there was not more
readinefe ufed in carrying into execution their vo-
luntary offers of fervice. Nothing can be more ufeful
than bringing forward for fuch a fervice men who
cannot be turned over to the navy ; men who, as pl.
lots, are employed in a way which renders it impof.
fible for them to be taken from borne without cool-
derable inconvenience to the trade of the country.—
From their habits of life, they mull have a decided
fuperiority over every fpecies of naval flotilla, and
coofequently again( loch a force as the enemy can
bring, the Britilh troops will neceffarily have the ad-
vantage. I hope the Sea Fencibles will be reckoned
among the melt important and mull saluablebranches
of the fervice. It is one as little likely to difappoint
the capeitation or lower the pride at the country."
Mr. Secretary You's Elated, in espianationi

many of the Volunteer Corp h:-..ialrezolv Mictant•J'
of ileit own, who were fufficiently qua:ified for that
office, without being paid by Government; that there
were not at this time Co many field r..gietts capable,
of ;alive fervice as Come pet Cons may imagine, and
that it would be an extravagant expenditure ft* Go-
vernment to allow permanent pay for the perfor-
mance of twenty-four days duty. Such expense, ho
obferved, would be to a confider:o.le amount, and
need not neceffarily be difeuffed, as the returns made
of the different Volunteer Corps were not yet correet
enough to have it reduced to any thing like an ac.
curate eflimate. In the maritime counties a very
great number of Volunteer bodies had their Cervices
accepted, as inßances of which he mentioned, that in
Devonffiite they amounted to 12,000 men, in Hemp-
(hire to ic,ooo, in the Cinque Ports to soon. With
regard to the doubts refpe&ing the exemptiuns, he
apprehended that they had been occationed by not
carefully attending to the AEt. The certificates of
fervice were rendered neceffary, in order to avoid a
number of abufes ; and whether they were given fur
being trained in arms or not, was in a great meafure
dependent on thedifcretionof the commanding officers.
Mr. WINIMAM Paid a few words in explanation of
fome fubordinate points of his fpeech, which he con-
ceived.to have been mifunder Rood.

Mr. T. GRENVILLE fupported the opinion of his
Hon. Friend, ( Mr. Windham) in oppofition to his
Right lion. Relation, (Mr. Pitt), and contended
that the amount of the army, Rated by the Secretary
of State, was by no means fufficient for the defence
of the country ; and I:sid that a volunteer force was I
not adequate to the defence of the kingdom.
Mr. PITT could not queftioa the expediency of
completing, at fool; as poffible, the regular army, j
but did not concerve that meafure fo important as the I
cafe which he had pointed out.
Lord CASTLEREAGH entered into a very elaborate
fupport of the arguments offered by Mr. Yorke againk
Mr. Windham and Mr. Grenville, and contended
there was no fort of foundation for the diflorted view I
wloch had been drawn by thole Gentlemen, of the
Rate of the recruiting fervice; on the contrary, he I
contended, that within the Ilion (pace of two months, I
ending on the t Il of December, dining which period I
only the recruiting had gone forward fur the troops of
the line from the Army of Referve, no lefs than 7Soo
men had enlilled, a number unparalleled within any
limilar period, from the molt zealous efforts of the
ordinary recruiting fervice. He admitted that the
high bounties for the Militia fisbllitutes had operated
in fume degree to diminifh the ordinary fervice of re-
cruiting for the line, hut nq more than in the pro- i
portion of one third part. A Right Hon. Gentleman I
had laid, that the volunteer fyllem had locked up the I
means of recruiting the army, and of increafing the
public force; in refutation of which, he Rated, that
an Army of Referve had been railed, to the number
of 4.0,000 men, during the operation of the volunteer
fyllem ; which fyllem, inflead of locking up and im.%
peding the means of encreating the public force, in his
mind confiderably forwarded thofe meaftires ; as, by
familiarifing a raft number of men withmilitary habits,
and the ufe of arms, who otherwife would never have
Thought of a military life, it would tend to excite thole
feelings, and ftimulate that fpirit moll likely to induce
them to enlift in the army. He next proceeded to
vindicate the charges againft his Majefty's Minifters,
who were wrongfully accufed of inability and laffi-
tude, for ufing the means put into their hands by
Parliament, and for ufing thole means which were
neceffary for public defence; in, contradiction to
which he Rated, that linen the breaking out of the
war the public force of this country hadbeen increaf-
ed to a degree utterly beyond any former example of
hiltory in both countries. The volunteer force in
England, of effeitive men in arms, rank and file.
he Rated at 340.000 ; the volunteer force of Ireland
70,000 ; making together four hundred and ten
thoufand men! The militia in England he computed
at soopoo men, and that in It eland I Spoo men, mak-
ing together jpshooo,exclufive of as,ooo lea fencibles,
which he conceived might be fairly reckoned amongft
the land forces, as they were defined to as either by
lea or land for the defence of our coati. It was there.
fore, he trotted, impoffible the Houle would admit
that charge to be fair againft the Minifters, who had
in the Ibort period of eight months increafed the ef-
feetive force of the country to 600,000 men, exclufive
officers. It might be objected that Come part of
the volunteer force was unarmed, bat though it
might be cottfidered a delicate point for explanation,
he had no objection to a candid flatement. The Mi-
litia and Regular. of Ireland amounting to so,ooch
and Volunteers to 70,000 men, were, he (aid, com-
pletely armed. In England the Regulars, Militia in.
eluded, amounted to t 32,000, and 222,000 Volun-
teers, making in the gra' 353,000 men; and includ.
ing the number in Ireland would make 470h000 cotn-
pletely armed and accoutred with &clocks, betides
which there are ay.ooo Sea Fenc:bles armed with
pikes, and 95,000 pikes have been ifued by the Ord-
nance in England for additional Volunteers. Betides
which, the Government were in poffeffion of dr,tru of
arms for any number of troops which the exigency
of the times may render it neectiary to arm.—
That having now taken a view of the land forces of
our country, the pieure of our naval force was equally
flattering. Our fhipti of war formed a force of 469
for the defence of our coati, to which was added a
flotilla of 800 gun boats, amounting together to i3oo
(hips, great and (mall, to encounter the enemy at leas
' and with Each a force, however formidable to the
enemy, he trolled no room could be left for delpon.
aency on our part. On the contrary, there was the
fulleß confidence for ultimate and complete viaory.
If there was cattle to commend the fpirit of the peo-
t ple at large, he felt a pride alfo in declaring the fpiri
of public bodies was not kfs praife worthy. The Eaft
India Company bad found twenty (kips of the clefs
of frigates, affording a formidable aid; and the public
fpirit of the Trinity Honk had contributed Co effec-
tually to the impregnable defence of die Thames, as
to render that frontier in a perfea Rate of fecurity.--
Nor had he lefs canfe to mire another important
Board in its exertions for public fecurity, namely the
Board of Ordnance : it was well known what diffi•
cisity exifted in that Board to render this branch of
the public force effeaually formidable, in the increafe
and equipment of that blanch of public affairs, on
account of the arduous Rodin of military education
neceffary to officers who compofed that corps; hews'
happy to add, that in the (pace of eight mouthstions
the commencement of the lag war. the number of fir.
Wiry regiments bad boo doubled, as well mama,

.
ter :.mmt:r...ticr.. He concluetd by ici:apitultatittg
the leaJ:ng ftAtorei of his liatem:lo, expreffed
fineere hope that the Btitilh oaL ss.;;lld he handed
&Awn to ftitu:c ages, As a monument 1.1 the virtue of
the Britifh nation., and its fortitude and vigour for
the maintenance of its freedom.

Mr. Fox—" Sir, before I proceed to that which
forms the bulinefs of the day, I Mall make a tew
obfervations un the gloomy p' dages, the melan-
choly defetiptions %his which the Noble Lord who
has jolt fat down, has thought proper to conclude
his fpcech. The! Noble Lord has Rated, that in his
opinion, the pref:itt war is lt':ely to have a long
continuance, and every body kuows how much of
the willies and defigns of men enter into the compels
fition of their opinions ; however, he has argued as
if the expenditure of tilt country nicit be increafed,

jail in proportion to the degree of profperiry which it
may at any time enjoy, ante ti.at nor pr.rlperity ren-
ders it neceltary for us to become a milliary nation :
in a word, that the prefent military arrangements are
to be permanent, and that they are to " grow with
our growth, and Rrengthen with our ltrength," with
all the expences and encumbrances that accompany
them. Of this, according to the Noble Lord, our
profperity is the caufe ; if fo then, our profperity is
produCtive of a great misfortune ; but I than not
dwell longer on this fingular opinion, farther than to
fay, that it holds out a very aftlieting profped to the
country, and the Right Hon. Gentleman under the
gallery (Mr. Pitt) has Rated, that the profpeet before
us is the only thing to which we lhould look under
the prefent eircumilances ; but I am not of the fame
opinion with that Right Hon. Gentleman, that a re-
trofped of the paR does not form as properly the rub-
jea for examinaticm on this day, as any (peculation
upon or provifion for the future ; indeed I do not fee
how the latter is to be jugly confidered, if we put
out of our view all recolleEtion of the former. if we
deternrioe to forget the paR, we literally determine
not to profit by experience; but as I Paid before, X
(hall not take the Right Hon. Gentleman's advice.--.
The Noble Lord has reviewed the condo& of his col-
leagues fince the Lill lemon, but 1 shall go farther
back. 1 'hall refer to the proceedings of Minillers at
the time the meafures which have been commented
upon this evening were propofed and dilculted. The
Right Hon. Gentlemen fay this night, in reply rn
the argrimcnts of the Right Hon. Gentleman on the
fame bench with me (Mr. Windham 1, with which
arguments I mail pert,.:Etly concur, that their fyf.
ten: was at the period I alluded to approved of by
Parliament. But even in, is that a fit objection to the
difipprobation now expiated of that fyltem Since '
that fyllem originated, tire lionfe has had the advan-
tage of experience to judge of its nature and effeEts,
and is that experience in its favour? How (hall we
form any fair opinion of it but from that experience;
and yet the Right Honourable Gentleman under the
gallery would, if his oppofirion to any retrofire& were
ttended to, entirely preclude us ft om confolting that
riterion. In all points of legillation it is cur obvious
duty to confider the mode in which the laws are to be
executed ; but in the point which relates to the fyftena
now under difctiffion, the manner of execution is the
principal thing. We hate heard that the machinery
of this fyaeln was bad, and certainly in my opinion,
nothing could be worfe, except the views which in-
duced the propnfition of it. And (hall it then be laid,
that although the machinery has been found, from
univerfal experience, to be fo very exceptionable,
the fyftem is Rill to go on, truly becaufe Parliament,
in the courfe of laft Seffitrn, approved of it; but the pe.
rind which has fince chapter), has proved that it is not
calculated to promote the °Ned Minitlers profefs to
have in view, namely, the vigorous profecution of the
war. Thefe remarks I mean principally to apply to the
fyltem of the Volunteers, which forms the moll pro.
minent feature in the prefent debate, and the qneltion
with refpeet to which has been putonvery fair grounds
by the Right Honourable Gentleman on thefaute bench
with me, and with all whole fentitnents on the fable&
I entirely agree. That Right Honourable Gentleman
Rated that he confidered that in the prefent cries the
defence of the country would be better confulted, and
the attack of the enemy better provided for, by the
increafe of our regular land force, than by the esuho.
dying of fo many Volunteers. He alto Rated that the
Volunteers were rather fo many men withheld from
our effeitive force, than fo many added to it. He did
not, however, fay any Itch thing as that which was of.
cribed to him by the Noble Lord, that the Regulate
were the onlyarm y which hewoald I ecomasend to berai.
fed in the prefent fitu at ion of affai rs, but that thedeferip.
lion of trcopihe would propole to be added to the regu.
lar'army would be very diff..rent from that which the
Volunteer fyßem had colleßed. That the patriotic
feeling and the martial ardour which the Volunteers
have manifefled are entitled to the higheß praife. no
man could doubt; but the (env:smuts:4 tbeßight Hon.
Gentleman and mine alto is. that this ardour might
be much better directed and much better employed
in another way. How differently, however, does this
Right Honourable Gentleman and the Right Hon.
Gentleman under the gallery (Mr. Pitt) confider
this inllitution, and the manner in which k may and
ought to be ufed for the public fatty 1 Though
the views of both are die into, yet both agree in think.
ing the Volunteers, according to their indent conaj.
ration, exceedingly imperfea. The Right Hon Gen-
tleman on the fame bench with me does not deny that
even as they now Itand they may be ufeful, bat main-
tains that a. greater degree of utility might be derived
from the fame men under a different fyftem, that
they are not an adequate fabftitute for the regular
army. nor fit to alt with them. The Right Hon.
Gentleman under the gallery coalmine the volunteers
as laying the foundation of a future military affocia.
rim, upon which the country might be able to rely
for its defense, in cafe it fliould become adviikble, in
the cowls of the war, to fend all our difpufable force
oat of the country. What l men who. according to the
letter of the Ati, are only required to fubmit to so
days dikipline is the coin& of the yeas in order to
exempt them from being balloted for the &Elide, and
to flicker them from regular ferrite and martial law,
to be reckoned upon as likely to become iu any res.
(unable time qualified to !apply the plate of a regular
army, and to have the fafety of the conntry committed
to their proteelion ? Really I do nn fully underhand
the tneaning ache Right Hon. Gentleman oo t bi s point.
It Crean to be his view that the voluateere are hereof.
ter to be converted into fortieths:lg lib* a difpafable
regular force. Such a thing is not within the
piatioa of the bill upon which the volunteer (Oasis
graisded, I certainly do net le anderftead it y nod 1

am fully furs that the members of the volunteer af-
fociation; do not by any my: lo undertland it. I
fhnul4 with W knOw tFt Liniments of his %jelly's
hlintfters upon this osteitiuh. Lail fellion it Arias un•
deritood that the voletitteets were to be drilled only
on Sunda., s, io older that the progrn; of their tin:. ,
not interf:re with thjr raip,:aive
avocati collateral eircurnflance, but
is yet a:Ater; tl to the p ani in view, hecatife if it
were of tie 114:nets of the bill to make
the v••lunteete within any realimable time con.
vertible inns an efficient force, they undoubtedly
would. a, they ought, have ptefetibed that ranch
more time titould be devoted to the learning of mili-
tary din i; iine ; is fah, that no time should lutt.
But, aro, diog to the original principle of the WI,
the volopit.ers wei c not in any cafe to go into the
arms, that is, to enter into the regular regim,nts
recollar I agree with the Right litmoura-
G:ntieni in under the gallery, that the volunteers
tholi!ei he allowed pay for loch days as they were
called u;son to Attell f drill, for it wool,' be extreme.
ly unfair to admit the id:a, that indufitiotts men of
family fleitild be expefted from patriutifm to devote
fo mu !h th:ir time to military fernice for the pub-
Pc without any pecuniary compenfation.—
Although I cannot ccmprehend clearly, and where
1 c..n corn;o:hend cannot approve, toe other remarks
he m...1e cpon lubje.a, 1 thinild be glad indeed to
hear in wilat ii,eht theft remaiks are regarded by
Miniflers, by .hum the generality of the °Versa-
tions of the Rigl t Hon. Gentleman on the lime
bend; with me ftcm to be mike mil:once:eel, and I
am the more :inxions that thofe obfery.itions Ihould
be eleally reptefetted, as they happen to be fo ex-
pre:live ui wh it 1 hold myfelf. The Right Hun.
Getnisman eii.! not fay, as the Noble Lord fisted
and argued upon, that the Volunteers formed a f.rce
that was locked up from the public irk ; but that
many of thole who might have compofed the neat.-
fary increafe of the Regular Army wcte locked up
in the inititution, and fo they are by the exemptions'
which olunteers enjoyed from being ballotted for
the Militia or the Airily of Referve. This was the
complaint of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and it is
mine. Another Right Hon. Gentleman on the fame
bench with me (Mr. T. Grenville) has obferved that
no recruits are likely to enter into the army from the
Volunteer Corps. It does not appear to me defirable
that fuch a thing Ihould be fought fon I hope it
never can be io the contemplation'of any man to
ufe any compullion for fuch purpofe towards thole
who have entered into the volunteer corps under the
exprefs underflanding which the bill contains. The
honour of the country and the charafter of the Le.
giflature forbid it. I croft that in no event will an
'attempt he made to feduce the volunteers to inlift,
beeaufe fusli an attempt would be a violation of the
terms upon which they became volunteers; and I
am pretty lure that no man has entered into there
affociations, under the idea that he was at any time
to be transferred to a regular regiment ; and from
the rank in life which the generality of the volunteers
bold, any effort to recruit the army from among them
would be attended with very ioconfiderable fuccef*,
if any. Indeed, I do not at all like the idea, as it is
incontiftent with the nature of the engagement, as
they underftood it upon entering into the volunteer
corps. Whatever I may think of the inftitution, I
with the members of it to be treated with the utmoft
refpeet and attention, as I molt fincerely applaud the
zeal by which they are titillated ; but I never can
perfuade myfeif to believe that they are ever likelyto
anfwer the exportations of the Right Honourable
Gentleman under the gallery, even if they were ta be
drilled 5o days in the year, as the Hon. Gentleman
defired. In what time, I would alk, confidering the
ordinary habits of the nsembers of the volunteer
corps, would they be cdpable of filling the place
which the Right Honourable Gentleman would af
fign them? certainly not in the 'next year or the fob
lowing. Would it be prudent to place the fafety of
the country under the protefiton, at any time of war,
en a body of volunteers not fubjeCt to martial law,
nor inured to military difcipline ? If the rumour of
invafion, which by the bye, I never though: fo likely
to be attempted, and if attempted not fo practicable
as moll people teem to imagine, were to blow over,
would the Right Honourable Gentleman under the
gallery, or any other Gentleman, venture to advife
the fending of our regular army on any foreign expe-
dition, and depend entirely on the vclunteet s for our
gaiety aeaintt any attack of the enemy on our coati ?
If is (Leh a cafe invafton lbould be aftually under-
taken, there would, I think, be furious ground for
appreirenficn and alarm. From there confidera-
lions I deduce an opinion correlliondent to that of
tie Ri,ltt Honourable Gentleman on the fame
bench will: me, that the machinery of the volunteer
fyficni is bad ; and that the prefent fylkm it never
likely to produce loch a force, even with the aid of
that Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Pitt) utmott
ability, as he profertes to entertain a hope of I
am peifinaded that the volunteers will not anfieer
.to ad with the regular army in the fi.:ld of bat-
tle, oppdied to the enemy's troops, as they are at
pv:lct.t c ohilruncJ, nor to term the grottne!•work
if fuels a force AS the Right I basouraFle Gentle-
man under the gallery has alluded 1 ntould
have no oh.;eetion to a general armament of thc
pie under any circumttances when the country was
in danger. But the Volunteers, in the lie ht which .t
vies: them, cannot be confoleted as an arroing of the
people. if they were to be fo confidered they were
to numbers quite too weak, but if they were to be
regarded as the foundation of a future army, as the
Right Hon. Gentleman tinder the gallery has hinted,
they were too far ;e. For the latter pm of fecro,cec
men would be ton much, and for the former one mil-
lion of nc_n would not be very c'-r -iderable. There-
fore, in either cafe, the volunteer fyftem is tinfaitablc.
It (truck me as foniessitat ttrange in the Noble I ao it%
dsfeription of the forces of the country, liIAC Le t,eser
hated the pleat amount of the regular army, as
contraditlinguiftied to the Nblitia. Why this was oi.l
told, I cannot lay ; but no doubt it was not becaufe
!key were In numerous that they craild not be corti.t.
ed. The Volunteers feemed to be the favntiiiie
jca of the Noble Lord's delsct ipt ion, enumeration and
posits No
doubt the Volunteers ilk:nil-elves are juilly
entitled to ! mud lay that the cha•
e f the country is rot a•ivaeceil hr; the frequent
:tn.:titian of loch applainfe. What, v. Is the Houle to
feet fo Enoch elated at' it it Iv •-e matter of wonder
tat 'alto the cowl'', was 'IC:- 1%1. dAllg.fri the

people of EnAlanl were emulous to Rep forward
a::d dcfend their homes against a French invader?
In filch a crilis they had flood forth as was to be
expelled, and in fuch numbers that Minifters
thought proper to refill their increafe, and yet
they were not likely to afford all the utility of
caherwile confirmed, they would have been
capable—what a melancholy reflection ! Among
the other ohjeEtions of the Right Honourable Gen-
tleman on the fime b.:ltch with me, is that which
he protclred to the manner of the volunteer doodl-
ing, an objearon of which I alto approve ;—and by
thine who have commented upon it, I think it has
been pot out a very wrong footing. Ido not like
giving men red coati merely to give them the ap-
pearance of foldiers, without the material ingredients
nerclier yto form filch characters. When I hear Mi-
lliners talking of the propriety of dreflinglhe Volun-
teers in military uniforms, I afle.do they merely mean
that the French troops &odd take them for foldiers?
(.4 Laos/). As marked batteries are Wed- is war,
perhaps you mean to right the French in mafquerade,
cr do you mean to hold nut the Volunteers as mere
targets to be fired at ? You might make much ufe of
them in various other ways, but you &limy their
utility by attempting to make them foldiers. No
man will think me apt to favour any fyftem op-
polite to Civil Liberty; but yet 1 cannot help ray-
ing, that nothing appears to me more abfurd than the
idea of making men effedive foldiers for the refift-
ance or attack of an effective regular army, without
martial law or military difcipltne. By this projed
of the Volunteers you fend men to impede the
movements of your regular force, which might be
employed moft 'lrefully to annoy the enemy in vari-
ous ways, to protect the villages, in fad by other
means to defend the invaded agaioli the invader;
but the battle in the field se kb the troops of the in-
vader mull he fought by our regular army ; and the
victory to our arms in fuch a contelt will, I hope and
truft, ever be the refult. The profped of victory to
us, indeed, is flrengthened by the various advantages
which always prefent themielves to the invaded coun-
try. Upon there advantages, independently of the
gallantry of our regular troops, we reckon with jolt
grounds of concience, if we could look to the ;Olive
Alliance of an armed pearantry ; but where are they
to be found ?—they are abforbed in the Volunteers I
What I would...A is,to fee all men in their properpla-
ces,the foldier in the at my, the peafant in the country,
and the people throughout in that fituation where they
could be employed each in his proper department. It
may be obferved that it is inconfiftent in me, who lak
year approved of the reduction of the regular army,'
now to call for its inereafe ; but the times, it is to be
recolleded, are fumcwhat different: we were laft year
at peace, and whether I may he confidered nature's
fool, or the Chancellor of the Exchequer's (a laugh),
I certainly did think that peace would continue, and
at the commencement of the war I Rated very fully
the reafons why I thought it might with proper ma
nagement, and ought to he preferved ; but if I was
nature's fool in thinking the peace of Amiens likely to
continue, the Chancellor of the Exchequer certainly
took a great deal of pains, gave many flattering de.
fcriptions, and ufed all the arguments is his power to
confirm me in my folly. Under the influence, there.
fore, of that folly, I recommended the decreafe of our
armed force at the commencement of the lift felfion.
With the hope expreffed by the Right lion. Gentle-
man under thegallery, 'heartily join,that we (hall not
long confine ssurfelves to mere defenfive war ; that
fo loon as circumftances favour the pried, we Ilion
proceed upon vigorous offenfive war—'hat we (hall
not always limit our glory to the mere fecurity of our
own country; and that we (hall not fufferinurfelves,
according to the old obfervatinn, " to be fwallowed
up in the Cbaanel." Out what defeription of offenfive
operations does the Right Hon. Gentleman deem
pradicable wlh the prelent conftrudiOn of our armed
force ? If ever the invalion of Ireland were attempted
by the enemy, and that they actually landed a confi-
derable force, would he feel it fate to fend any mate-
rial propos tion of our regular army to that country,
leaving England to the defence of the Volunteer, ?
I for myfelf Ihould deprecate any fuch idea. I beg
to be undcrftood ditiindly, as meaning no difrefped
whatever in what I have Waved to the individuals
who corn pole the Volunteer Corps, who are deferving,
I am confident, plan theregard I feelfor their motives.
A friend of mine, indeed, has lately taken occafion to
place me in their ranks. I know hie motive was kind'
in toafting my nameas a private in the ChertfeyCorps;
but I am obliged to decline the honour lie intended
me, for this plain reafon. that I never WAS a private in
that Corps; nor should I tecome one in any Corps, be.
cattle I would not undertake a ifituation, the duties of
which I am not competent to perform ; my age dif.
qualifies me for i;; I could not endure the fatigues of a'.
(oldie r'slite. it may be laid that the influence of exam-
ple ought to be confidered, and probably, from that
comlderation, moll of his Majefty's Ministers have be-
come. Volunteers, bit: what kind of example are they
likely to give? Why, Wale French thould invade this
country,they would immediately defert, (alosc/t) for
theymu ft ci th r deka theirofficesor the volunteereorps
and it is eafy to judi;e what choice they would male.
No doubt they would, presioufly to their defertion,
apelogife to the corps they might belong to, that a
necellary attendance to their mistitet ial duties obliged
them to depart. And what would be the effea of
foch apologies on the different corps? Why this—
That it would be a precedent to jollity the defertion
of every other Volunteer who could affign any plau-
fible reamo of trrianz &c. This vaunted in-
fluence of example, however, is quite of a piece with
the theatrical oftentatit.us foppery of the Volunteer
&Item, which (*cents only tit to be put on the top of
a hill to be looked at.

" !cannot help repeating the opinion which I gave
141 and upon r.shtch a motion was ineffeetui
ally made in this Houle; namely, I'hat there thould
be a relponfible military authority, to which the par.
I;amcnt and the people might look for the whole eon.
dnfl of the army department. I have great per.
I inal rcipe3 for his Royal High:l,ft the Cimmansfer
in Chief, bnt I am perfuaded, from my petfonal
knowledge of his chat-after, t!.a., he would not be
!leafed with the flattery that he 'is himfeif capable
of the a ery difficult talk of governing' this depart.
milt it requires, above all, that the scfpontibi-
lity Psould be clear and pofitive. I may be allowed to
fa), tl:at there is an obilacle in his high birth to t;.e
refporifibility which belongs to his fituarion. There
a delicacy iii quellioning the mealiares of a perfrinage
cf his illuatious re.ak, which dctz:s men LI rcusl

from the duty of calling him to account. It is not too !
much to fay, that ail the arrangements of the military
fyllem far the lan iiimmer have been uniteady, vateil-
Wing and capricious. Early in the fummer a ttaff was
appointed, which, to lay nn voile of it, gave cc,nlider-
able furprize to military men. Generals were air-
pointed to the corms:arid of diflriftt-, who no doubt
had jun pretentious to employment, but men were
difpofed to enquire why others of the greate it experi-
ence, gallantry, and di iinnion were omitted ? Names
were miffed that, in A situation of. the country fo
I critical, ought, in the public opinion, to have been the
firft thought of. Thus it was conceived that Lord
Cornwallis was not In old as to be overlooked ; and
furely his Noble Friend, Earl Moira was not fo
deftitute of aftivity, zeal, energy, and experience
as to be left unemployed. And yet, in the lard in-
Rance, his name was not to be found. A general
promotion, however, took place, and this altered the
arrangement. Lord lititchinfon, who had been em-
ployed at firft, was now put off the Staff, and Earl
Moira was molt properly appointed to the chief com-
mand in Scotland—an appointment which gave him
the higheil fatisfaftion, as it mull do to every one
who truly regarded the defence of the country; brit
why, if the Noble Earl was props to be trolled with
a great military nation in Oariber, was he ofcrlooked
in May? It was anfwered to all this, That it was the
King's prerogative to change his Generals, and that
he might change them every day. Moil true it is his
prerogative, but his Minifter are refponlible for the
ezercife of this prerogative capriciop fly. The country
have a right to the employment of the belt talents
and experience that the army can fapaly, and the cha-
rafters of Officers are an effential part of the public
ftrength. Men are not to be changed by caprice.—
Where nothing has happened to alter the circumftan-
ea, it betrays a levity incontinent with the character
of a itrong and efficient Government to change,
take Officers up, and put them down without a rea-
fon affigned, or an an argument of any kind. Every
part of-the fervice had been left to chance. Even in
railing the Army of Referve, there was a thameful
want of attention. After men had paid 4oL or 50.
to find a fubftitute for the Army of Referve, and that
the fubltitute had marched to the appointed rendez-
vous, he found no one there to receive him. This
bad happened in many inftances, and the fulAitut es
net knowing what to do with themfelves or their mo.
ney, bad decreed in poll chaifes and four. Was there
ever an Adminiltration fo trulted, fo fispported—fo
left with almolt uncontrolled power as the prefentr.
with the fpirit of the country railed to the higheft
euthufiafm—with no party differences to motel them
-with the Lords Lieutenants of the Counties all
eager to fecond their views ; and yet what had they
done with all this power ? Had it not been the
chief employment of thole Lords Lieutenants to com-
prebend the initruCtions they had received—the ex-
planation of the explanations had occupied altnoll all
their time ; and not r rely in regard to the tivnals
in Norfolk, but to air their •fyflem there had beers
fuch a fyllem of confufion, enntradietion and vat-cil-
iation as to make it impotlible for the proper officers
to underftand what they were to do. lam fpeaking
now of the Military fyitem, not of their boalted In-
come Aft. .

" ['here is an inflance of a near relation of my own,
which in a very high degree proves the capricious
manna in which they hay,: aged. isly relation was
tent to be the Commander in Chief in Ireland; an
appointment of much difficulty, and which with all
my ref-pea and natural confidence in him I did not
contemplate with perk& cafe. But he was appoint-
ed nn the breaking out of the war, and went to Ire-
land. The horrible affair of the 23d July happened
—and Pion alter he was recalled, or, as it is laid, he
refgned. It certainly is true, he dared to be re-
called, but it is equally true that he had region to be-
lieve that the civil power of Ireland wifhed him to re-
fign. He accordingly did In, and no former was he
arrived in England than he was entrulled with an
important command, to as to thew that his Majefty
had ;aerie& confidence in him. Now, what was to be
inferred from this condud ? If he had not done his
duty on the 23d July, or had fuffered himfelf to be
furprifsd, he furely Was, not fit to ba put into a
place of high military trull here. A with eipref.
fed on the part of the Irilh Government, that he
(hould be recalled, impl:ed that they were not fatisfied
with his conduit ; or that they whited to throw from
themfelves upon him the imputation of blame for that
trarifaelion. I truth that other opportunities will occur
for lifting this affair to the bottom. I have no heti;
tation in laying, that from all I have been able to
collet on the cubic& the Government of Ireland was
taken completely by furprife. That the Lord Lieute-
nant told the Commander in Chief he did not believe
there would be any riling in Dublin on the very day
when it happened, and that ao notice even was fent
to the Lord Mayor of the City to take precautions.
I am warranted in laying, that when the melancholy
tumult did happen, thc Government teemed de-
firous to infinuate blame on the Commander in
Chief. In the peels of Dublin, a prels not totally free
from the controul of the Cattle, a pararaph appear.
eel, Rating that the Commander in Lliief was my
brother, and fira coulin to the Duke of Leinller and
the Fitzgeralds. What was the obvious meaning of
this hint, it is eafy to divine. But all men who
know that officer, and are acquainted with his habits,
arc nut to be told that no man court be found who has
mixed leis with politics, or with parties, than his re.
lation. The fafl is, that the Government of Ireland
teemed to have no fear, but that the people of Dub-
lin lhould bs alaimed. They would nut beliesce in
the infurreflion. They faid it would blow away ;
and when it happened, they were dcfirous of toning
the blame from therufelves to that general officer.
There is but one other topic of the fame fort of
incrinfifiency, but in a more effmtial inftancer
which I than allude; I mean the fituation of the Heir
Apparer.:. After thc handfome and gallant offers
that he had made el military farvice, MC find that
his Royal H:glinefs is not employed, nor any reafon
aligned for rejeCting his application. Here again it
is laid to be his Majellfs prerogative. Are we, then,
to underhand that his Majelly's prerogatiFe is to ab-
folute, that his cord to be every thing, and public
opinion nothing ! The habits of the Prince's life, his
talents, his love of the i.:my as a profeflian. as well
as the high into ed %Ouch the public naturally took
in his feelings, made it trial definable that he Ihould
be employed. It would have been a molt gra.
tifying es.ample to the nation. No matt attached
be toe IOUS ilouL of I:zeal-wick but putt have

rejoiced to fee him chafing with the reople in
their efforts and fervice iu lbpport of the Crown.
Gon for bid that the ftruggle that,' ever come to be
made ; but if it than, what example could be It,
animating as that of the Prince of IVaies ? And
what man will lay that his proper place was at
the head of a mere regiment of Light Dragoons?
He has been long in the army. It is his favourite
profellion, and though mere rank in ordinary t.mes
could be of no confequence to him, yet it mull be
grating to his feelings to be let afide, while every
other branch of his family was entrulted with corn.
mand.. Was it to be the policy that he was to be ker.
like an eaflern Prince, fear that he fhould acquire
popularity ? I cannot enter into the motives that
diitated fuch conduit, nor is it fit for "'ornament to
overlook the indignity thus offered to his Royal High.
nets. his fit to fignify the impreflion that it has
made upon their minds, and to mark with their point-
ed reprobation the advice which Milliners have given,
to his Majelly on this filbjed. The only rca6in a ga.rd_
it teems is, that there was momewhere an alarm of
his acquiring popularity. I fee no earthly advantage
that it could be to any one to Rand in the way of his
difplaying the talents, gallantry, and patriotifm of
his charaiter."—Mr. Fox concluded with reafferting;
his opinion, that to reinforce the regular army, and
to male the Volunteer Syllcm as nearly as poll:bin
to a levy en pt t, was the heft mode of fccuring this
defence of the country.
'l'heCu a tics csoleoftheExc N EQr E Pt prole fredhimfelf,,
if the term was to be applied, to be • great a foul asthe
Hon. Gentleman had been reprefented, as to his belief
in the fincerity of the French Government with re-
fpeEt to the Treaty of Amiens He then conceived
thatit .was the true intereft and policy of that Go-
vernment to cultivate peace with this country. But
looking to that view of their difpofition more than to
any conviition of their general good faith, he thought
that a much larger peace eftablifhment fhould be
maintained than we had formerly beentaccullomed to,
and the fad was, that the reduitions in the regulars
did not exceed 7eloo men, of whom 3000 were in-
valids. He then !lightly adverted to what had fallen
from the preceding fpeaker, on the recall of the
Commander in Chief of Ireland, and argued, that
that meafure no more implied, in itfelf, any cenfure
on his conduit than the recal of Sir Ralph Abercrom-
bie had thrown an imputation on the charader of
that lamented Officer. Both meat:urea had been oc-
cafioned by imperious circutnftances, whi-h did not
imply'any cenfure in either cafe. As to the Prince
of Wales he would repeat, what he bad (fated on a
former occafion, that nothing but the exprefs com-
mands of his Majefly, or the unan:mous refolution of
that Houfe, could induce him to enter into any ex-
planation on the lubjeß of the demands of his Royal
Highnefs, and the motives which led to their rejec-
tion. He might, however, elk, why the Right
Hun. Gentleman had not taken up the Winds in
the years 1795, 96, when a fimilarrefufal was made
by his Majesty ?
Mr. Fox obferved, that the Right Hon, Gentle-
man had a very convenient way of getting over dif-
ficulties. In regard to the Prince of Wales, the
Right Hon. Gentleman was determined not to fay a
word ; and in regard to General Fox he evaded the
queftion. Here war (Bence for a Prince, and evalioa
for a General. The Right Hon. Gentleman had laid
that the prefent Government of Ireland was more
moderato in their principles, and more popular than
any former Government ref that country. Were the
late meafures of Parliament a proof of this afiCrtion I
Was the Sufpenfion of the Habeas Corpus Ad, was
the introdudion of military law into that country a
proof of the conciliatory difpofition of the Govern-
ment, or was it natural to fuppofe,that fuch meafures
would lead to popularity ?
Mr. Sac AAAAA Y You entered into a jullification
of the Lord Lieutenant in regard to General Fox:
He gave a fhort narration of the affairs of the 2_301
July—and laid that his Excellency had fent for Go.
neral Fox, and told him of the intended riling. He
owned, however, that the Government knew nothing
of the depot of arms—that they had not apprifed the
Lord Mayor, but he could not fit and bear the Lord
Lieutenant,attacked without attaching, if blame watt
to be imputed, equally as the Commander in Chief.
Mr. Fox, in reply, challenged him to the enquiry.
and of him whether the Lord Lieutenant did not
fay to General Fox, that he did oot believe in the
rising, and that *he wifhed that no alarm Ibould be
given to the people of Dublin by preparation ?. He
Aced alto, whether afterwards, in eonfequence of,
fume (leps taken by General Fox, the Lord Lieute.
turn had not written to him, laying, S, that be flap-.
poled, from what lie was doing, that he bad received
other information ?"
Admiral B wiffied.to be informed in po-
fitive terms, whether Gen. Fox been told on the
a3d, that it was exed that a riling would take
place in the City of Dubin on that night ?
Mr. Secretary YORKS faith he only knew that the
General had been at the Cattle on that day. and he
underflood that information had been that morning
given to the Lord Lieutenant, which he thought It
was mot likely that he would have communicated.
Mr. CURRY defended the Iri(h Government at con-
fiderable length from any imputation of neglect.
Lord de Etat:ollU laid, that in his opinion blame,
the moth flagrant blame, attached fomewhere.
Colonel Hos-meson Paid, it was his moll fervent
will that fuch refponfibility fhould be brought down
upon the heads of thole who deprived the State of
the (crake which even the pretence of an illuftrious
perfonage might afford, if in his proper nation, at
the preterit crifis. But though he hoped to lee fuch
conduit punilhed leveret', as it deferred, the Relo-
lotions which were then belore the Houle for the de-
fence of the nation had his warmest fupport.
Mr. Pyre obferved that the number of the forces
and the espence dated in the Ettimate Ihould meet
with his fpport. But he begrd to be underilood,
that he did not pledge hinitell any further than the
Hon. Gentleman who had jolt fat down, with relpera
to any thing which might be considered as cunneacd
with the fubjed in any other point of view.
After a few other obfervations between Mr. Pitt
and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Refolu-
6,ms were re.,cl and agreed to, and the report order-
ed to be recr4ed ot. Monday.—Adjourried.

LONDON : Priut.:d and publithed by I 1.1•71. KENT. (of Can-
LornbctS,) at the STAR ()ruler. No. a. Cour
Ernst. Pu4lltb 4ad at tio. STAR Or a:I. 1 lAnjok Bat.

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