Star.
London, England, 1810-04-10 00:00:00

SIR FRANCIS RURDETT.

The SPEAKER rose and said, he Was now to ac-
quaint the House with what had occurred in the
matter of Sir Francis Burdett, in consequence of the
vote on Friday morning last. lie did, at half past
eight o'clock on Friday morning, sign the warrant
for the commitment of Sir Francis, in obedience to
the commands of the House ; and he did deliver the
warrant to the Serjeant at Arms, and desired him
not to delay the execution of it. At ten o'clock in
the morning th:, Serjeant did proceed to execute it,
and would himself shortly infornp.ithe HeOuse of
what passed on the occasion. It would, however, be
necessary first to acquaint the Ilouse, that he (the
speaker) had, on Friday evening, received a
letter from Su- Francis Burdett on the subject of his
commitment, and which Sir Francis desired lie
would read to the House ; but this he would not
venture to do until the House should give him per-
mission. [A general exclamation of Read ! Read!
Mr. FRE EMANTLE rose to as.k the Right Hon.
the Speaker, before the letter was read, at what time
is was received ?

The SPEAKER answered, he thought he had al.
ready said on Friday evening. He would state the
whole of what occurred, as he had made notes from
hour to hour of every thing which had passed, pen-
ding the whole transaction. The letter was brought
6-i his house by two Gentlemen, who delivered it to
his servants, saying they would wait for an answer :
he sent word there was no auswer. The following
is a copy of the letter :

" SlR—When I was rewrites' in due form by the Electors of
Westminster, they imagined they had chosen me as their Trustee
in the House of Commons, to maintain the Laws and Liberties of
the land. Having accepted that trust, I never will betray it.

" I have also, as a dutiful stibject, taken an oath of allegiance
to the King, to obey his laws ; and I never will consent, by any
act of mine, to obey any set of men, who, contrary to those
laws, shall, under any Pretence whatsoever, anume the power
Of the King. Power and privilege ask not the same things, and
ought not at any time to be confounded together. Privilege is
an exemption train Power—and was by Law secured to the third
111- an eh of the Legislature, in order to protect them, that they
Might safely protect the people, not to give them power to de-
stroy the People.

" Your warrant, Sir, I believe Ton know to be illegal ; I
know it to be so. To sure: for force I mu,,t submit ; I will not,
anti dare not incur the daiger of continuing voluntarily to make
one of any Association, or set of men, who shall assume illegally
the whole power of the realm, and whn have no more right to
take myself, or any one of my Constituents by force, than f, or
they possess to take any one of those who are now guilty of this
usurpation; and I Would condescend to accept the meanest office
that would vacate my seat, being more desirous of getting out of
my present association, than other men may be desirous of get-
ting profitably into
" Sir, this is nut a letter in answer to a vote of thanks ; it Is
answer to a vote of a vv.:: different kind : I know not what
to call it ; but since you have begun this correspondence with
me, I must beg you to read this my answer to those under whose
•rders you have commenced it. I remain, Sir,

most obedient humble Servant,
" FRANCIS BURDF.TT."

,LOR of the EXCHEQUER
impossible for the House to pass
1 some notice. He did notmean,
.iuse to take up the subject at that
thought that, for the present, it
that the letter should be suffered

he rather thotsght the House
- as a matter of high contumacy
it was a subject which called for
thmitted whether it would not be
discussion upon it until to-morrow.
ie did not wish the House should
:or printing it.
.6e, WIWNE, conceiving the
'use to be in favour of his suggestion,
'iscussion of this letter be deferred
Ordered accordingly.
Aims then made the following

ig of Friday, Immediately after re-
irosi tlse Speaker, I won to Sir

Francis Burdett's house ; I was told by the servants
that Sir Francis was not at home ; I then wetlt to my I
own house, and wrote to Sir Francis, to tell imnthat
I had called on hint, to serve a warrant for his appre
hension and conveyance to the Tower, and stated that
it was my wish to treat him with all delicacy, and
execute my duty as quietly as possible. A little
before four I came to the House of Commsns, and,
while there, was told that Sir Francis had been seen
going to his own house. I then went to Sir Francis
and had an interview with him ; he said he should
be ready next hay at 11 o'clock, and that he would
write a letter to the Speaker. I thought it would be
sufficient to exestite my warrant next morning, having
been directe,-44ttlae time of my receiving it, to execute
it with every attention and delicacy to the person ar-
rested. I had conceived this only a proper respect
fora Member of this House—and had I wished even
at that moment, to put the caption in force, I could
not have done so, as a large mob was assembled be-
fore the door. I then returned to the Speaker, who
advised me to go back, and to get my warrant exe-
cuted immediately. I went to Sir Francis's house, told
him i regretted I must appoint an earlier hour than
that which he had chosen, and shewed him the war-
rant to take him into custody, which he read. Sir
Francis then said, that he dispifted the legality of the
warrant—that he had written to the Speaker upon it,
and that nothing should remove him but actual force.
I then bid the Deputy Scrjeant withdraw, and went
to the Secretary of State's office for a force to convey
the prisoner. On my leaving the house I found a
large mob waiting round the door.
" Considering the lateness of the hour (it was then
nine o'clock), and also that, as no notice had been
given to the Lord Mayor, I should be left, on my ar-
rival in the city, without civil or military assistance,
and as it would have been impossible to proceed with
the unguarded coach through the streets in such estate
of the public mind, I put off the execution of the
warrant till half-past six o'clock next morning, and
in the mean time, went to the Secretary of State's
Office for force, and sent Mr. Clementson to the Lord
Mayor. About half-past six next morning, I went
to Sir Francis's house, and sent two messengers to
the Police Office for assistance. At Sir Francis's
house, the servants told me, that he was not at home.
I then went to the country in search of him, leaving
a Messenger in his hall, in case he should return. On
going to Wimbledon, I was told that Sir Francis was
not there. On coming back, I left the warrant with
the Messenger in the hall, and went to my own
house, where I staid a short time. I was told that
Sir Francis had been seen in the streets, and I imme-
diately went to his house. On my knocking at the
door, the servant opened it but a little way, the chain
being on. On asking for Sir Francis Burdett, the
servant said I should not get in, and shut the door
on me. On Sunday morning I went with some po.
lice officers, and knocked at the door several times,
but could not get in. Mr. Clementson and I re-
mained near the house all day, and placed people to
watch the avenues by which Sir Francis might pass.
I should mention that on Saturday, from my having
conceived doubts how far I might be justified in using
force in the exemzion of the warrant, I sent it to his
Majesty's Attorney General, and upon his opinion I
acted this morning. This morning, in consequence
of the directions which I had received, I went with
thirty or forty police officers to Sir Francis Burdett's
house. I had also an escort of cavalry to guard him
to the Tower. Thinking myself justified in using
force, I went down with the officers into the area, and
from that got into the hall, where I let in the guard,
, and then went into the room where Sir Francis was.
I told him that it was extremely painful to me to be
obliged to arrest him in that way ; but that I had
•
such a force with me, as it would he useless to at-
, tempt resisting. Ile desired to see my authority. I
told him I had already sliel,vn him my warrant, and
begged of him to come without resistance. He went
into the carriage, attended by his brother, together
with Itlr. Clementson, and a Messerer. I rode along
with the carriage, and delivered him up to the Dc-
puty-Lieutenant of the Tower.
" If any circumstance in the conduct of this trans-
action should have excited any displeasure in this Ho.
nourable House, I trust they will be convinced that
no wish for delay could have been imputed to me :
it had cost me much uneasiness that I could not exe-
cute my duty before; but the House will have the
goodness to consider the novelty of the situation in
which I was placed, and the delicacy and mildness
with which a duty like mine ought to be performed."
(Hear, hear.)
Sir JOHN NEWPORT wished to have the case
on which the Attorney General's opinion was given,
along with that opinion, laid upon the table.
Mr. WHITBREAD wished to put two or three
questions to the Serjeant.
The SPEAK KR thought that the questions might
be better asked after the Narrative should have been
a second time read to the House.

[The Narrative was here read by the Short-hand
writer.]
In that part of the reading which adverted to the
day before the caption, the Serjearit said, that :After he
had gone away, leaving the Messenger in the hall,
Sir Francis returned from riding, and the Messenger
I•hcwed him the warrant. Sir Francis bid him leave
it—the Messenger said that he could not part with it,
but must stay or go with the warrant, upon which he
was desired to leave the house : there was no force
used, but the man being alone could not resist, anal
therefore went away.
Mr.WHITBREAD desired to know from the Ser-
jeant at Arms, at what hour on Friday he had told
the Speaker he could not execute the warrant --Be-
tween five and six o'clock.

Was the House sitting ?—lt was.
Where did you see Mr. Ryder ?--In this House.
Had you any communication with Mr. Ryder, and
of what nature was it ?.--I do not recollect minutely ;
it was but a few words ; I think he said the business
was mismanaged.
To whom, at the Secretaty of State's Office, did
you apply ?—To Mr. Becket.
What was the substance of your application?— I re-
quired a force to escort the prisoner to the Tower ; I
particularly required a force of cavalry, as the Police
Officers would not have been able to keep up with the
carriage.
Did Mr. Becket, in your conversation, refer you at
any time to the advice or direction of the Principal
Secretaty of State ?—I cannot distinctly recollect ; I
rather think he did.

,Are you sure that his Italn e was mentioned ?-410,
pot,tit
Did you see Mr. Ryder at any time in the course
of that evening ?—l'saw him behind the Chair, as I
,was passing on to the Speaker's Chamber.
When the Speaker desired that you should call at the
"Secretary of State's Office, had you told him that
you could not execute his warrant ?—No.
Larne- understand you, Sir. Do you mean that
he directed you to use force before you told him that
force was ,necessary ?—.Certainly not. I merely
mentioned to him that I was to wait on Sir Francis
next morning. I had then no idea that he did not
mean to comply at once, and come with me to the
Tower.

The SPEAKER.—" I think, before the Serjeant
proceeds, it would be better that I should mention
those circumstances with which I am immediately
connected. ( Hear.) I had desired the Serjeant, on
receiving his warrant, to execute it before ten in the
morning, if possible, that the conveyance of the per-
son arrested might not be deferred until mid-day. A
short time after my coming down to this House, I
understood that the Serjeant was in waiting to make
his report to me; I was just then informed that Sir
Francis Burdett had been seen in the streets ; I de-
sired the Serjeant not to stop to make his report then,
but go and execute his duty. In the course of the
evening I was told that the Serjeant wished to speak
to me. The House happened to be in a Committee,
and I went into my chamber. I saw the Serjeant ;
and, on his asking what I required hint to do farther
I told him I had nothing to require but the Lieute-
nant of the Tower's warrant for the body of the pri-
soner. He said that Sir Francis Burdett had agreed
to go to the Tower next day. I told him, he might
be in the Tower himself next day, but that 1 must
expect the strict performance t)... his duty. I cannot
but hope the House will think I have been correct in
what I have done." (Hear, hear.)
Mr. WHITBREAD proceeded in his examination cf
the Serjeant.
Tell what happened, or who were in the room,
when you acquainted Mr. Becket that von
want force ?—Read and Glaham, the 111.14itiates,
were present. I had not much conversation on dr:
subject ; I merely mentioned that a cavalry force
would be necessary.

How lonL, did you stay there a. very late
hour ; till midnight.
Did Mr. Ryder never appear ?—No, we were in a
lower room of the office.

Did Mr. Becket take it upon himself to give you
answers, or were the Magistrates the principal pcasoai
conversing ?—The Magistrates.
Did you ask to see Mr. Ryder at the time of your
attendance at the Mfice ?—No.

At what time did you quit the office after you had
been first there ?—At about half-past seven.
At what time were you called on to attend the Ca-
binet Council ?—About nine. I was not at home
when the summons was sent.

Am I to understand, that during the whole trans-
action, from the first delivery of the warrant to the
time of your being summoned before the Cabinet
Council, you had not seen any of his Majesty's Mi-
nisters ?—I saw Mr. Perceval.

What passed then ?—He said, te Well, Mr. Col-
man, have you executed your warrant ?" I said I
had attempted to serve it, but was not yet quite satis-
fied as to the authority which it might give me to use
force. He asked if I had not any precedents in cases
of this sort.

This conversation I rather think was chiefly pro-
ducei by his thinking it wrong in the Messenger to
have shewn the warrant to Sir Francis Burdett.

Was that the substance of all that passed bvtween
Mr. Perceval and you —Ye.s.
Did you, in consequence of that advice, submit a
case to the Attorney-General ? —Yes.

When did ycu receive the opinion of that learncd
Gentleman ?—Last night.
Have you the case and opinion here ?—I have.
Will you produce them to the House ?—Yes.
[The case and opinion were then handed to the
Clerk, and a cry of Read, Read, from various parts of
the House.]
The ATTORNEY GENERAL rose and said, it
ms necessary for him to state to the House, that
When the case xvas first sent to him, they had inserted
in it a copy of the warrant, which, on reading over,
he found was not the warrant to take the body of
Sir F. Burdett, but that to the Lieutenant of the
Tower to receive the body there ; so that he was
obliged to siend it back, as he could give no opinion
on such a warrant ; the case was :diem ants returned
with the right warrant, and he wrote the opinion oa
it.

By Mr. WHITBREAD tO the ATTOWKEY-GENERAL—
Was that the first time you were consulted as to the
legality of the Speaker's warrant ?—I have no objec-
tion individually to answer any question ; but I am
not clear whether that question ought to be answered.
Mr. WIIITBREAD.—., That is for the HotNe
to determine. I think it is a very proper qugstioo."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHIWER
said, that if his Honourable and Learned Friend was
to be examined as a witness, the other examination
should first be closed.

Mr. WHITBREAD acquiesced in the observa-
tion, and desisted from questioning the Attorney-Ge-
neral till the other was closed.

11w Speaker's warrant was then read by the Clerk,
and Afterwards the opinion of the Attorney,General ;
the purport of which was—

" That as there were no cases exactly in point, he
must argue from such as were nearly analogous. He
cited Tremaine's case in •2 or 3 Coke, in which the
law is stated at considerable length relative to the
breaking open the outer door to come at a defendant,
on the warrant of the King, and argued from thence
that the Speaker's warrant being, in his opinion, a
legal instrument, the same means rriay be resorted to
in order to enforce it ; but warning the Serjeant that
it must be in the day time, and that he must be cer-
tain that the person sought tar is in the house at the
time.

Examination of the SERJEANT at ARMS resumed.
Q. By Mr. WHITBREAD—When did you receive
the summons to attend the Cabinet Council ?—A.
Last night, at half-past six o'clock.
[The Serjeant spoke in so low a tone, and the short-
hand writer read the questions and answers so very
rapidly, that it was with the utmost difiSculty we
could understand any of them; a great many it was
impossible to bear.]

When did Tot attmd ?—At half-past nine—Af cr.
wards he thought it was ten o'clock at night..
Who were present at the Council ?—The Attorney.
General, Lord Eldon, Mr. Dundas, and Lord Cam-
den.

Were there no others ?—Yes ; Lord Miligrave.
Were those all that were present?—There were
Lord Wellesley and Mr. Ryder, Lord Harrowby
Lord Liverpool.
Was Mr. Becket called in ?—No.

Were the Police Magistrates called in ?—No.
Did lie receive any directions ?--No.

•
Didhe ask for any assistance ?—He certainly thou ,';t
it necessary, and was told lie should have all he'..-
quired.

Q. by Mr. PERCEVAL—Whether, on every aprli„
cation he made to Mr. Beckl.t, he was not told he
should have every kind of force he should requ'rv;
and whether he was not referred to the Magistrates
to apply for such as might be deemed necessary ?
He had frequently applied to the Magistrates, and
they said there was no need to have a iniitary
in the first instance ; meaning, he z,urpt:sad, that rnii-
tary aid ought not to b. called in till aIL-cr the at...eit
had taken place.

Whether he was not always told by Mr. llce.cet he
should have every ki:id of it,: cc lie I.:Link ne-
cessary ?—A. Yes.
Mr. WHIT] READ. S,..rjoant s^ems to have
praLrred a niiiizary force trout the
yoi r first arniication to the Secietat y of .`,t:ltk*-.
Office? W.ts it b fore or after S;r Francis lad d
he would resist ?—The :ira time I v.c!s.t to S:r i r.i! c s
llurcictt's house, there was a large moh, anti I
I could not execute the v..c.rrant
force.

Did not I (Mr. Percev:ll) express mu-pis:, tlat
when you had seen Sir Francis you did not :west
him ?—You

Did not I inquire, whether the Messenger, wi en
be served the Ntarrant, had touched Sir Francis
You did.

Did not I regret that neither your nor the Mei-
senger had touched hint ?—Yes ; but we neither of us
thoty,?ltt it necessary to do that to a Member of Par-
liament.

Do you recollect asking my opinion n?tether you
could lt!gally bre.ll; op ;t the outer d rof Air Fraiis
Burdett's house uud,:r the atuhot ity c 1 th. Speaks:';
warrant :—I do.

Did not Mr. Perccval say, that whatever doubts
there could be as to bre,iLing open the door, there
could be none as to his right of search when lie w.,.;
once in the house ?—Ves, Perce•.-al did say so.
When he applied to i Ir. Pcrceval, as to the
lily of breaking open the outer door, did not Mr. P.
tell him that if he was in his (the Serjeant's)
he would take a legal ? Yes.
Did not I (Mr. Perccval) recommend you to take
that of the Attorney General —l'ott did.
When you attended the Council last ni:zht, was it
not later than you have stated ? was it not I,etween
12 and one o'clock ?—I believe it might have been
between l 2 and one.

Were you not asked by the Council what you in.
' tended to do, as Government wished to know whi:t
steps you meant to take ? I rather think that was the
first question asked.
On stating that you intended to execute the war-
) rant, let what resistance would be made to it, were
you nct informed that you should have any force—
both
civil and military, that you might think neces-
sary ?—Yes, I was told so.
Examined Ly Sir Tort` ANSTAUTHER.
At what hour on Friday did the Serjeant receivc tie
Warrant ?—At about nine o'clock in the morning.—
Why did not the Serjeant proceed to execute it imme-
diately ?—I did go to Sir Francis Burdett's house, and
not finding him there, I wrote a le::er to him.
Why did the Serjeant write a letter when entrusted
with the execution of a Warrant f—That I might ap-
point a time with him for his cenvevance to the Tower,
and this particularly as I did not find him at home.
When did the Serjeant first see Sir Francis f—At
four o'clock the same day.
Why did nut the Serjeant then arrest him ?—I be-
lieve there was some courtesy due from the Serjeant
to a Member of Parliament. I remember an instance
of arresting a Member at Taunton, when the messen-
ger did not come within six miles of the place, but the
pleasure of the House was communicated by a friend
of the Member',;. •

When the S;:rjeant first saw Sir Francis, on the af•
ternoon of Friday, was there any mob, or appearance
of resistance ?—'There was.

Whini did the Serjeant see Sir Francis the second
time:—The same evening.
Did the Serjeant go to the Secretary of State's Of-
fice that evening ?--I did.
Did he then mention the mob, or make any appli-
cation for a force ?—No. _ •

Was the want of communication with the Lnrd
Mayor one reason for not making any attempt by force?
I was told so in the Secretary of State's Office.
Does the Serjeant know Nyll flier the Lord Mayor
teas communicated with soon after ?—Ves ; I went
on Smirday myself without any particular directions.
When did the Serjeant mention at the Secretary of
State's Office that he wanted a force Friday
evening.
What was the answer ?—That I sho!:ld have a pro-
per force ; a civil force, and if necessary a military
one ; there was a difference with tespect to this neces-
sity.
Was the want of a sufficient force one reason why
the Warrant Was not executed before this morning ?
—No.

Did the Serjeant think that before this morning he
had a sufficient force ?—No ; the torte I had was a
patrole not sufficient for an escort.
Was it the Serjeant's desire to see Mr. Perceval, or
was it Mr. Perceval's desire to see him ?—lt was at
Mr. Perceval's desire I waited on him.
Did the Serjeant tell Mr. Perceval, that he asked
the Speaket's opinion about breaking open the door?
—I did.

Is the Serjeant quite sure ?—Yes.
The SPEAKER declared, that the Serjeant had
informed him he expected resistance • he wished the
Serjeant to recollect, if he had not asked him for the
receipt of the Lieutenant of the Tower ; to this ques-
tion he was answered, No. •

By the SPEAKS.%
Does the Serjeant recollect the time he informed
him of Sir Francis's intention of resistance ?—Betwees
'nine and ten on Friday night.

Your warrant, sir,
know it to be so. To sure:
and dare not incur the da:ge
one of any Associa:ion, or se
the whole power of thu real
take myself, or any sine of n
they possess to take any one
usurpation; and I Would for
that would vacate my seat,
my present asoclatiou, than
ting profitably into it.
" Sir, this is nut a letter i
anewer to a vote of a vv.
to call it ; but since you ha
me, I must beg you to read I
•rders you have commenced
" Your nit)!
" Plandilly, April 6,
The C H ANCELL(
rose, and said it was in
by this letter without sc
however, for the Houst
moment ; but he thou
would be expedient tha
to lie on the table.
Mr. WYNNE said,
would feel this letter as
and insult ; and, as it
serious notice, he subm
better to defer any disc!
In the mean time, he c
sanction any order for
After some pause,
opinion of the House to
moved, ,g that the discu
until to-morrow."—On
The SEHJEANT at A
sultemcnt:
On the morning of
ceiving the warrant fro]

-1::!e SPEAKER, in continuation, mentioned that
se: j.•ant, on his return from the Office of the Secre-
v Stale to him, saidthatthe Magistrates had some
of the legality of breaking open the doors, and
anisiiel to him for directions, to this he replied, it was
r:ot his duty to give either orders or directions, but
s iid that he did not know but the Magis-
trates wouid execut, the process for contempt in .the
4,1 n? way as that of au inferior Court ; he likewise
intlitioned, that if force was requisite, he would have
it by applying at the Secretary of State's Office.
Sir J• ANSTIWTHEIt proceeded—
Who first suggested tile doubt of executing the
Speaker's warrant by force ?—I do not recollect.
\Vas it at the Secretary of State's Office ?----I believe
.ut am not positive.
\\ hen executing the warrant this morning, did the
,rieant know who was in the house ?—No ; I only
sir Francis and another Gentleman.
Ea.amit;:d 1.1, Arr. S 11:1(61::.; BCURNP.

is it not sutTe;iied to the Magistrates, that before
cciald be used, it would be necessary to prove
7..•,tarice ?—Yes.
Mr. Read say to the Serjeant, there was a ne-
v of making an affidavit (6f the resistance ?
ve, I tuld him I had no objection to swear to any
that I had said.
Di not Mr. Read send out the civil force, both on
t and Sunday :—Yes.
tae 14.Ingistrate state it was necessary to
au a aidavit to obtain assistance ?—Yes.
Ex.;mined by the ArronsEv GENERAL.
wit on Friday evening that the Serjeant ap.
assistance ?-1-Ls.
v..is he not told that he should have both civil and
ralitary assistance ?—Most certainly.
Iva.; not the Serjeant referred to the Magistrates
r the Civil force ; and to learn from them if they
it insufficient :—No doubt of it.
Did not the Serjeant wish to have the military to
Gocu.e the warrant in the first instance, after he had
s.en the Magistrates ?—As soon as I saw the mob, I
wi 4,1 to have it.

Did not the JLtgistrates express their disinclination
t employ military force, unless they found the Civil
—Yes.
.Itariliard by Lord Os SU L STON.

DA not the. Serj,;ant conceive that though he was
f;i:.nished w.th a force from the Secretary of State's
Oilicc, woald be liable to every respomibility ; and
;loath shoald efwae, and the wai rant afterwards
f,70V0 illegal, did he nut conceive he would be subject
c. an indicuncia tor murdef ?--I Lun,idered myself
z.:1; only re:yousiblc poi in the execution of the
warrant.

Did not the Sericaw.thilik from what fell Jim the
511.11;.:r and the Attotney General, that the responsi-
bility was of a se:ions n,ture I
EX,TI.;IeI 1:y .11Tr. ADAM.
In any time of the proceedings did the Serjeant
make an applicalicn to the Sheriffs of Middlesex ?
i did.

wt d:.! they say on the production of the war-
and the request for assistance ?—They said they
vuuld afford any assistance in their power ; and this
()a tUe supposition that Sir Francis Burdett had
c.me out of his house.

Examined ly Mr. H. SUMNER.
not the Serjeant apply for a Captain's guard,
ir:ci;.• t c.ipture, for an escort ? I never thought
v.:Ca ..ivrce would be sufficient.
P not the Serjcant pass Mr. Read on horseback,
by a guard ? I have already stated I was
,ed at meeting Mr. Read opposite Sir Francis
o.,:,Lit's house.

i);.1 t the I ruder Secretary of State, in the course
ff conversation Ivith you on Friday evening, remark,
th.it, in 'adore of executing your duty, you would be
L--pithUe for all the consequences which might en-
vie know he did ; and 1 observed to him in reply
'Ht I could bear myself out, for that I had done my
to .pprchcnd Sir Francis Burdett.
Examined IT Mr. S ri:rii
llen you first saw Sir Francis Burdett, you say
kii.t net intimate his inteltion to resist the audio-
; :y of the warrant ; nor did he ohj, ct to die le.
!y of the war rant : he only said, I shall write to
1-.!:%,caker on the subject, and observed to me that
!ii)iiltl he glad to icc,.:ive me the next morning at
ei,:v•.n o'clock.

IC.ts not thit in answer t an application which
lud made to know when he would be ready to go
e ?—Yes.

D;(1 you not understand from him that he did not
.; the least resistance, but that he meant read :.; to
4..':ornpany you --No doubt of it.
Hid you any expectation that when you went nt
t..‘e lour of eleven next morning you should meet
auy resistance not, from what Sir
ILl:cis sail ; 1 thought there might be a mob round
'.V•ts it not the expeantion of Si: Francis's so corn-
•-..•
wall the warrant that you did not then take
custosly
S.r PET Ett 111.-1, HAY .
li.tve you a copy or Sir l'rancis's letter to you ?
Ibve I believe a cony at home.
I‘Lat was do,: precise force or number dint you
necesary for carrying your warrant into exe-
t.;ak -----That depended on the state in which the
w. 31.

\Y!Lft were t!:e numbers which at any time you ac-
' di demand ?—Last night, I stated that I must
infantry find 50J cavalry.—(Here there
• c• of « With& ! withdraw !)
‘,ll ever demand an audience of Mr. Ryder
• •:.Iyf,il was at the °Ace. :It the Secretary for the
•'-r1 'ortment —No, I never did.
Exxrinni the. y FACI:EQUER.
Or hid Ay Light, when you asked for a military
was it not that Mr. Read, the Magistrate,
you whether you had made airy arrangement
ull'a the Lord Mayer, for the safe concluct of the es-
cort through the City, when the Westminster Magis-
trates had done their duty believe it was.
.Did Ile not then state, that without some City Ma-
gistratei Were appointed for that purpose, the military
might object to go, for that the other Magistrates
not act in that character in the City, but that
aut! otity would end when he had conducted .the
escort to the confines of his.jurisdiction ?---Yes, I did
understand Mr. Read to state, that he could not at-
tend Sir Francis beyond the confines of his own juris-
diction.

Examined ly Sir CHARLES BURRYLL.
W. 15 there any difference or distinction in the line

of conduct which the two Shetiffs had in contempla-
tion, when you stated that they were disposed to af-
ford you assistance, what I mean is, was one more
ready than the other?—The conversation was at din-
net about the best manner of carrying my warrant
into effect.

[Sir Charles here said to the Witness, " I must
beg a distinct answer to my question."]
Certainly there was no difference in point of
disposition, for I asked for nothing particularly ;
they both expressed. themselves ready to afford me
assistance.

Examined 4y Sir CHARLES PRICE.
The Witness has before stated that he had some
communications with the Lord Mayor. What an-
swer did you get from his Lordship certainly re-
ceived every attention from him; he told me his ju-
risdiction should be perfectly quiet. Every disposi-
tion was shewn to render me assistance.
Examined by ADMIRAL MARKHAM.
Did you consider that it was your business, or that
it was the duty of the Government to make arrange-
ments with the Lord Mayor, for securing you safe
passage through the City ?—I believe the Under-Se-
cretary of State did communicate with the Lord
Mayor on the subject. I think he communicated
with somebody on the necessity of the City Magis-
trates being in attendance.
What I wish to know is, was you left to make it
—I either rout myself or sent my Deputy.
[The SERJEANT was here ordered to withdraw.]
Mr. Witrrtial: In then proposed to put a question
or two to the ATTORNEY-GENERAL.
Was there any consultation at any time between
you and the rest of his Majesty's Government pre.
viJus to the answer which you have given to the case
submitted for your opinion, on the part of the Ser-
jeant at Arms, touching the Speaker's warrant to
arrest Sir Francis Burdett?

The ATTORNEY.GENERAL replied,
"I should have no objection to answer the ques-
tion of the Honourable Gentleman if the House
thinks that I ought so to do. I was sent for on Sa-
turday morning to advise his Majesty's Ministers, as
Attorney-General, which advice I gave to the best
of my knowledge and abilities. If the House think
I am bound to disclose that advice, 1 shall abide by
their decision."

Mr. WHITBREAD—" I certainly can feel no
difficulty as an individual Mend'er in pressing an an-
swer to that question, but whether the House will
agree with me, is what I at present can't determine.
Thus much I am prepared to contend that it is per-
fectly proper for me to extract front the Learned
Gentleman, if I can, what that advice was."
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
was disposed to think that the Honourable Gentle-
man was not justified in demanding an answer to the
question. He much doubted whether on principle
the House would do right to put it to a question. It
appeared to the House, that the Attorney General in
his legal capacity had been called before the Privy
Council to give an opinion. Now, it would certainly
be improper for the House to request that what was
going on at the Council Board should be disclosed.
If, indeed, the present was a grave inquiry, leading
to impeachment, then the Honourable Gentleman
might have sufficient excuse for desiring an answer ;
but when the inquiry was merely incidental, arising
out of the Serjeant's report, the excuse would not I
hold. On the general interests of the public ser-
vice, he trusted the House would pause before they i
consented to admit a practice, which, if admitted,
would go the length of affecting the manner and
confidence with which' on future occasions adVice
might be given. Much as he regretted that the Ho-
nourable Gentleman should be deprived of his learned
Friend's testimony, yet he was bound, on public prin.
ciples, to object to it.
Mr. WHITBREAD was disposed to ndmit that
the general rule laid down by the Right Hon. Gen-
tleman was perfectly correct, but the question here
was, whether the warrant of the Speaker was of that
value which on all sides it had on a former occasion
been admitted ? The Right Hon. Gentleman had
talked of not disclosing the advice. Why he would
• put it to the House, whether after the city of West-
minstzr had been the scene of tumults and disorders
almost unparalleled Ibr four days, nay even perhaps
remains so at the moment he was speaking—(Hear,
ivar)—that many persons in consequence had been
slain, he did not know how many, it was too much
for him to desire to ascertain whether Ministers had
done their duty ? Had not the legality of the war-
rant been the subject et some very warm debates, and
had it not been determined that no doubts on its lega-
lity remained, would the House then for the first time
understand that Ministers were not certain whether it
was legal—that the Serjeant appointed to carry it
into effect had been for four days waiting for the ad-
vice or the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as to the
validity of the warrant. (No, N, from al:
s:de.) Gentlemen opposite might deny it, but
; the fact was so, for had not the Attorney-General
stated that the case was seat to him on the Saturday
cvehing and he returned it with his opinion on the Sun-
dae evenim. Now what he wished to know was Nvip:a
Ministers appFed to the Attorney-General for that
opinion, and it remained for the House to determine
whether that opinion should be disclosed.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCI-lEOUER
in explanation observed, that he ihwer had doubted
the legality of the warrant. The Hon. Gentleman
had not correctly stated the fact. The Scrjeanf en-
tertained doubts whether the warrant authoi iced him
to employ force in case of resistance to break open
the house, and that was the true state of the matter.—
(Zhu-, hear.) Every Gentleman knew that warrants
to certain extents '.lerc valid, but that tinder certain
circumstances even persons hawing authority to exe-
cute them were not justified in I.reaking outer doors.
—The House could see that there was no necessity
for pressing the question as to the general legality of

the ‘varrant.
WHITBREAD, in ex

wlanation, said, that

Mr. __ pt. sal%
when speaking of the warrant he had used the word
46 value," and never had doubted its legality.
The CHANCELLOR of. the EXCHEQUER
conceived the Hon. Gentleman to have argued as to
its legality.
Mr. DUNDAS denied that the doubts of the Ser-
jeant had been infused into his inind by any Member
of the Government, as an Hon. Gentleman supposed.
His Majesty's Ministers had no other object than a
wish arising from a sense of duty to give every assist-
ance to the officer of the House. To controtal the

officer on whom tl responsibility alone could attach
was a doctrine which he did not expect to hear. The
Hon. Gentleman had failed of extracting an answer
from the Attorney-General. He wished, as a point
of order, to know from the Chair whether the Hon.
Gentleman was justified in that sort of proceeding ?
The SPEAKER observed, that as the point of
order was put to him, he must declare, that if as it •
appeared, the House was proceeding in an inquiry,
rather taken upon a sudden, it was competent for any
Hon. Gentleman to put any questions to any Mem-
ber of the House. If, however, it was determined
not to enter into the inquiry then it was not compe-
tent.

Mr. DUNDAS observed, that it did not appear
the House were resolved to go into a wide field of
enquiry.

The. CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER
rose and intimated to the Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Whitbread) that upon consideration, conceiving that
the present is a case in which it was not necessary
that a Privy Councillor should withhold his opinion,
he would withdraw his objection to the Hon. Gentle-
man's question.
Mr: WHITBREAD then prep-sea his question,
as before stated, viz.—With respect to any commu-
nication having been made from the Learned Gen-
tleman to the Privy Council, touching the Speaker's
warrant ?

The ATTORNEY GENERAL answered :—" I
hope the House will excuse me for having stated my
objectical to allswerinq the question of the Honourable
Gentleman before iiear )—I was never con-
sulted by the Privy Council on the legality of the
warrant, but on titQ question which had arisen as to
the legality of wing fbrce in breaking the outer door
of Sir nancis Burdett's house."

When, and by whom ?—After the debate on Thurs-
day night I was desired to attend. Upon recol-
lection it was on Saturday morning, to give my opi-
mon on a question which would be put to me, as
to whether the Speaker's warrant would justify the
using force in case of resistance to break the outer-
door of Sir Francis Bnrdett's house ? This I think
was about one or two o'clock of that day. It was a
new question to me, as it arose upon the execution
a warrant which, in point of practice, I. was perfectly
unacquainted with. I could therefore, in giving my
opinion, only reason with analogy to other cases
which had been decided in law, and which my recol-
lection at the time furnished me with. The ten-
dency of my opinion was, that the Speaker's warrant,
with reference to those cases to which I had referred,
might be so executed viii safety to the person having
it to execute. I observed that under those cases he, in
my opinion, would have been justified in breaking the
door, but I also stated that it was a question which
I had never seen decided, and consequently could
not give a decided opinion upon it, but that I thought
it might be so executed.
Was that all which passed ?—That is the sub-
stance of all that passed. I think I stated the conse-
quences which might arise to the Serjeant, if it should
turn out that he was not justified in law. I mean, if
any conflict should take place in the execution of the
warrant, su that death ensued (that was pretty much
the terms of my opinion in the case sent to me.) I
think I stated likewise, that it any thing fatal oc-
curred to him, and it should be afterwards held that
the warrant was illegal, that no person resisting him in
so executing it, could be held criminally answerable.
Mr. NVHITBREAD having finished his questions
to the Learned Gentleman, stated, that he should
move the printing of the Serjeant's Report, and the
Minutes of Evidence.
An Honourable Member moved, That the
Mes-
seng whom the Serjeant stated he left at the House
of Sir Francis Burdett with the missing warrant,
should be examined.—On the question being put,
Mr. JACOB suggested that it was necessary to ex-
' amine other evidence on the subject before the papers
were printed. He had seen in the newspapers an
account of some persons having been at Sir Francis
Burdett's house. If it should turn out that Sir Francis
Burdett had taken secret advice as to the line of con-
duct which he should pursue with respect to the war-
rant, it would be desirable for the House to know his
prompters, in order that they might equally partici-
pate in the criminality. He was glad to find that a
Learned Gentleman had disowned being at the House,
but there were others—Loud cries of Name, Name.—
The Hon. Gentleman observed, that he did sot mean
to state that the Hon. Baronet had realli had secret
and bad advisers—he was merely supposing such a
case—(Here the call :iron the flop. Gentleman to nuns:,
cka: reiterated), when
Lord GEORGE CAVENDISH rose to order ;
he thought the Honourable Gentleman was wander-
ing into extraneous matter. If the inquiry went for-
. ward, then if the Honourable Gentleman had any
thing to bring forward he might, but at present he
conceived he was quite out of order—( Cry of Chair !
• chair !)
The SPEAKER, on the appeal being made, de-
• clared, that it apreared to that the Honourable
Gentleman was not stating any thing out of order.
hear.)
; Mr. JACOB then proceeded, and again suggested
what he had before thrown out—contending, that
there was nothing inconsistent in the inquiry, if di-
rected to Ivhat he suggested.
Mr. WHITBREAD rose, with some warmth, to
make some observations to the dark suggestions of
the Honourable Gentleman, who bad, no doubt,

hided to him (Mr. Whitbread', when he talked of
secret and bad advisers, terrnc not very liberal or
just —( hear.)—The Honourable Gentleman
had, however, misquoted the paragraph in the news-
paper which he had been reading ; for, if he referred
to it again, he ‘vou!d find that the persons described
as being at the li:mse of fir Francis, were not there
as advisers, but as visitors—(Mar, hear.) In that
number, he (Mr. W lit bread) was certainly included,
and he trusted, ulna he explained his motive for being
there, the How e would he disposed to think as fa-
vourably of him as of his Learned Friend (Sir S.
Romilly). Mr. Whitbread then stated that on the
suggestion of another Member whom he met by
chance, he had be !n induced to call upon the Hon.
Baronet to give not bad but good advice, which he
received very politely, and if it had beeu attended to,
might have saved perhaps the ill consequences that
the House deplored. He requested the Honourable
Gentleman therefore for the future not to couple his
name unguardedly with what he called secret and
bad advisers—(Hear, Hear.)

Mr. JACOB assured the Honourable Gentleman
that he was not one of those whom he supposed had
given bad advice— Crier repeated- of Name I lame !)
—The Honourable Gentleman then declared that no
Member to his knowledge was a secret adviser,
(Hear, hear.)
Mr. PONSONBY observed how extremety unfor-
tunate the Honourable Gentleman was in his insi-
dious assertions. Was there any man in the House
who had witnessed the deportment and had heard the
expressions of the Honourable Gentleman, could lay
his hand on his breast and say, that upon his honour
he did not understand the Member to insinaate that
in this House there were Members who had given
secret and bad advice to the Hon. Baronet !—(Lcial
cries of hear, hear.)—When the Honourable Gentle-
man talked of bad advisers, it was his duty, if he knew
them, to name theru.—(Hear, Hear.)—lt was not
either fitting or just for him to utter expressions against
persons whom he could not name.—(Near, hear.)
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
suggested, that rather than examine the Messenger,
as proposed by an Hon. Member, it would be better
that the Serjcant should add to his report.
Mr. Secretary RYDER defended the conduct of
his Majesty's Government with respect to the execu-
tion of the Warrant. As to his own situation, the
Right Hon. Gentleman observed it had been painful
in the extreme from the laborious exertions he had
used. He should be happy that the whole of the con-
duct of Ministers in the busine-s shield be examined
into. It would then be found that they used the most
active exertions to secure the peace of the metropolis.
Every step had been taken to afford the Serjeant fa-
cility in executing his warrant, both in point of civil
and military aid, it he chose to use them. He might
however complain of the tendency which the speeches
of Gentlemen opposite gave for encouraging of the
disaffected towards the Government--(Crier of Order,
order ! Chair, chair )
The SPEAKER said, that in his view of the de.
bate, the Right Hon. Secretary was not out of order.
Certainly it was fair in argument to say that the ten.
dency of some Gentlemen's speeches would have the
effect described.

Mr. Secretary RYDER then repeated the asser-
tion, and was again called to order, when the SPEA-
KER again decided in the Right Honourable Gentle-
man's favour, who declared that lie did not impute
such motives to those Gentlemen, but had merely said
that the tendency of their arguments would excite the
spirit of disaffection. He was sorry they were so ex-
tremely sore, but the House would know how to ap-
preciate the value of the language. The Right Hon.
Gentleman contended, that having done every thing
for securing the peace of the metropolis, and the Ser-
jeant having effectual aid afforded him, being the
agent of the House, was alone responsible for tint
consequences.
Sir JOHN ANSTRUTHER declared, that his
wife and family had been nearly murdered, owing to
the criminal negligence of his Majesty's Ministers.
Was such a declaration to be considered as a proof
of disaffection ? Ministers wished to shelter them-
selves from responsibility on the subject ; but had
they not used all the influence of their talents and
their situation, to induce the House to agree to daf
commitment of Sir Francis Burdett ? The Right
Honourable Secretary of State was one of the first
Civil Officers in the nation, and before he had ad-
vised the House to take the step which had been
taken, it was his duty to ascertain what were the legal
means to enforce it. He was bound to support the
execution of the warrant. Was he ignorant with an
Attorney-General at his elbow, and another not a
hundred yards off, to what extent that warrant might
be legally enforced. The charge which he had to
make against his Majesty's Ministers was, that they
might easily have foreseen the resistance which had
taken place, and that, taking the opinion of the At-
torney-General on Thursday night instead of on Sun-
day night, Sir Francis Burdett mighthave been lodged
in the Tower on Friday morning, instead of this
morning, and all the evils which had ensued have
been prevented.
Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS said, that if his Ma.
jesty's Government had done what the Honourable
Gentleman opposite declared they ought to have done
the House and the country would have resounded
with the loudest cries of censure on their unconstitu-
tional interference. The Honourable Baronet had
conceived that it was the duty of his Majesty's Mini-
sters to have foreseen all the consequences resulting
from the vote of the House. Could they foresee that
the warrant would have been resisted, not having
been ever before resisted ? He confessed that he had
not thought so ill of the Honourable Baronet as to
imagine that he would have resisted it. Could it
have been foreseen that he would have shut his door
against the execution of the warrant ? This he did
not do at first. The Serjeant at Arms had twice had
access to him, and had it in his power to make his
arrest in such a way as to leave no doubt with respect
to the subsequent legality of breaking the door.
Mr. C. W. WYNNE, after so many days of alarm
and confusion, did not think it should be tolerated
that they should be stopped in the first moment of di:-
cussion; or told, when adverting to the consequences,
that they were encouraging disaffection. The Gen-
tlemen of his side of the House had never stated a.
doubt of the legality of the Speaker's warrant; that
doubt originated with the Right Hon. Gentleman op.
posite. 1-iis Majesty's Ministers having stood in a
situation where they were liable to be called on to af-
ford assistance for the execution of the warrant, were
bound, before they induced the House to agree to the
issue of that warrant, to know how far it could be
executed to any good purpose. If any doubts had
heen known to exist upon the subject, it should never
Helve been issued till they were dissolved. It had been
said that Sir Francis Burdett had not argued against
the power to commit Members ; but whoever read
his weak and frivolous production, must know that
the principle applied equally to the case of Members
as to that of strangers. He thought it highly crimi.
nal in Ministers to have left a whole street during
Friday in the possession of a mob of about 150 boys,
when '2O Constables employed at two o'clock might
have dispersed them and restored tranquillity.
inquiry ought to be prosecuted, and he was persuaded
that the conduct of his Majesty's Government was
deservi.mg of censure.
The ATTORNEY GENERAL regretted the ca-
lamitous consequences that had ensued, but certainly
did not think the House had occasion to lamenthaving
voted for the commitment of Sir Francis Burdett; be.

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