Star.
London, England, 1829-02-06 00:00:00

qiestion, it Wl.ll make thomholnistratinn of the lams
by any tribunal in the; country impossible. For these
reasons I have advised the consideration of the ques-
tion. I feel the absolute necessity of providing a
remedy for disunion of counsels, and for reconciling
the differences between the two branches of the legis-
lature, which, so long as they exist, have a direct ten-
dency to aggravate the ills of Ireland. Thus actuated,
- 1 have thought it my duty, in relation to the Crown,
and without reference to the past, to advise the demo-
lition of the barriers that have prevented the conside•
ration of the question, and to make an adjustment of
it that might be satisfactory to all sincere Pro-
testants, and to every reasonable man. I trust
I shall not be considered trespassing on the
indulgence of the House if I crave to be.
permitted to make an observation relative to my own
past situation. In the conclusions I have come to I
have not been influenced by any recent proceedings of
the Catholic Association—my opinion was formed six
months ago. and in consequence of what •passed last
Session. I thought the time was come when I should
advise the consideration of the question, as there ap-
peared to be less evil in doing so than in persisting in
rejecting it. While I thought this, I did not forget the
opinions I entertained since I first entered public life,
which had offe-ed decided and unqualified 'resistance to
• the claims of the It man Catholics. I seek no refuge
for the course I have pursued. I have opposed con-
• cessions to the Catholics, but my opposition has been
confirod to the debates of this House; and I deny nn • ,
qualifiedly, what has been charged against me, that I
ever sent missions to Ireland to effect the same purpose.
When the matter was discussed, I wrote to my Noble
F' end at the head of the Government, and notified that
thete was no other course to pursue but the considera-
tion of this question, stating at the same time that re-
servation was necessary, and that no fear of unjust ins-
• potations wi uld revent me from doing what I conceived
• to he my duty. I am willing. at the hazard of any sa-
• ciifire, to f (low up my deliberate opinion that the
Catholic qiiestion ought to be considered. At the
• same time I expressed my conviction to my Noble
• Fite ad, that committing the charge of the question in
• the House of to me would not conduce to its
settlement. It would have been infinitely more sad -
factory to me to have advocated my opinions in a
• private capacity than as a servant of the Crown; but
I have no hesitation in saying. that in the course of
the discussion which arose with my Noble Friend,
there were circumstances developed which showed that,
in the event of my retirement, his embarrassments
wc.uld have been greatly increased. That being
.the
case—ii having been proved to my satisfacti n that
- these difficulties would have been increased, I mai-
• mated to niy Noble Friend—that no personal con-
siderat !!!!! would induce me to retire; and, be the sa-
crifice what it may, I will not shrink from acting in
accordance with the advice I have given. In my
opinion my Noble Friend has done every thing it was
• possible for him to dn. Unintimidated and uninfluenced
' by any at of the Catholic Association, he thought
it• his duty to advise his Maksty to resort to this
mea we. and. feeling this, he would not allow himself
to be committed by the leaf -of unjust imputations. 1
have done all in ray
,power to free myself from any
• engagemei.ts that would prevent the unfettered mos
Cie at my judgment; and, whatever may have been
my c nJuct on former occasions, I think it my duty to
fu fi t'-e solemn iiijiinctitm of his Majesty to consider
this question. deeply interesting to the best feelings
of his pen; le, and involving the teat q••illity and con-
• cord of the United Kingdom, with temper and mode's-
tion"—(Hear, hear).
• Mr. 111{OUGHAM-11•ere ha, been a complaint of
a wan; of espial% t on of the intentions of Ministers—
an explarati.ir which I should consider an attempt at
die. using to the Legislature. I, for one, am satisfied
• with the eManation given to the House. There was
no tripes' dly proposition brought forward, but the ex-
press f itm and extent • f the measure were left to be
determi ed by what all men should consider ought to be
done. Th.. mind of the Legislstute was, once for all,
to be made up to terminate the long-existing differences,
and to give the Catholics what we can afford to give
them, and with which they ought to be satisfied. 1
Holly agree with the Right Hon. Gent. that this import-
ant measure would 1, se half its value if considered as
the result of a negotiation or compact with any party.
From *hat has now passed I consider the Catholic clues-
tout as substat tinily carried—(llear). Of that question.
• an into gal part—almost the whole of it—are the ad-
missibility of Catholics to seats in this House (Hear).
and the eligibility to public offices, with two or three
exceptions, which they themselves must acknowledge
to be fairly shut to them. Allusion bad been made to
an alleged change s f principles unaccompanied by an
adequate change of cocumstances. It after experience,
•men telt themselves called op. n to alter opinions which
they had honestly advocated, I would not think of them
with disrespect for manfully avowing that alteration.
• I would totter those who had profited by experience to
otiose w 1 o persisted in their errors in despite of jeers,
and who, in the endurance and growth of early pieju•
dices, reaped the melancholy fruits of a long life. 1 do
t agree in sentiment with the Member for Dorset. and
an lion. Baronet, who have said, is What is the differ-
ence bet e n die state id the question nowfrom that which
•it exhibited during the last seven or eight years?" I
deny that it did trot then, as now, call fur consideration,
and that that call was omitted to be pressed upon the
H use. 1 and those who drab with me have all along
said, that it was equally a measure of expediency as of
undeniable rightfulness. We asserted this as you ly
without the late experience as with it; but 1 know.
publicly and privately, that the events 01 the last two
or three years have materially altered the elements r f
our calculation. With whet had been said as to the
inutility of temporizing he perfectly agreed. If it
were of moment that Ministers should act with union,
they must adopt one of two alternatives—either to
wake the Catholic question a Cabinet measure, or to
determine on its permanent tejection—either to re-
solve on carrying it, or to treat its opposition as a car-
dinal point—and to succeed in the latter all would
admit to be an impossibility. If there be any man
on whom the I:entsial election of 1826 at•cl the Clare
election in 1828, with their characteristic event-, are
thrown away, and who tears me now, and maintains
that it would be productive of great mischief to carry
the question, I ask him to point me out in this and the
other House of Psrliament the matesials of which a
Cabinet hostile so it could be formed ? Had the Right
fii n. Gentleman (Mr. Peel) persisted in saying that the
claims of the Catholics weir not to be lisle:tied to, he
would have been left to constitute a Cabinet of himself,
with pearl's tire additicuiot one or twriGentlemen from
some of the lietiche:T(A laugh), and he would have
fund that to constmct such a Cabinet was, he would
not say a physisa, but at all events, a political
It, rms expedient that the Government of
the courtsy should be in the hand of the King's
Officers ; but I put it to the House whether the
powers of the State in Ireland base been in the hand

of the coostituted authorities, or in the hands of the
Catholic-Association? Soch'a suite of things was not
to be The Members of the Association irsefe
and the tory ; croons who believed it failly 'called into
existence by political necessity, must deptecrte the
Ire-
•ent state of public feeling. es inconsistent both with
the security of the Government and the people. There
was but one way to effect 'change. No man will pretend
to say that there is any mode of doing it except by
carrying this measure. I cannot approve of that part
of the King's Speech which calls for arming Ministers,
with additional poser to pat down the Association be-
fore proceeding to discuss the question. I wish that con-
ciliation had preceded instead of f sllowing coercion. I
wish it for this reason, because I am as clearly convinced
as I am of my" own existence that the carrying of the
first would have rendered the second measure quite an
necessary ; and that the Association, originally created
by the existence of wrong, would have died a natural
death on the appearance of a remedy. I trust that the
measure will be so framed, in consistency with the
principles of the Constitution, as not to call on Parlia-
ment either to reject it, or to purchase its adoption at an
expense of Constitutional principle too terve to incur
ever for so important a concession. Great as is the value
of religions peace and political tranquillity. if it wire
only to be purchased by investing Gentlemen with
powers dangerous to civil liberty, it might call ou the
House to pause ere they accepted the offer. I do not
seek at resent to enter into the details of the proposed
measures. I shall hear them. and shall exercise my
judgment on them. I trust that Ministers will be armed
with only that degree of power sufficient to enable his
Majesty to maintain his just authority; and 1 hope that
the Speech from the Throne, and the declarations
of Ministers in both Houses, will render the exercise of
that power as regards the Catholic Association un-
eecessary, and lead them to anticipate its contem
plated effects by a spontaneous dissolution. If I have
ever offered the Catholics advice in my place in
-Parliament—and only there have I offered them
advice and if ever they considered themselves
bound to attend to my sugeestions—l never more
anxiously solicited, implored. conjured them, for their
own honour—for the interests of the empire—and,
above all, for the success of the great cause—to be
satisfied with the assurances of his Majesty's Ministers
and the disposition of Parliament; and I entreat them
freely—l was going to say unasked, but that I now ask
them—but freely, or at least uncompelled, at once to
put an end to their corporate existence, and Bing them-
selves upon the wisdom and justice of Parliament
—(Cheers) If with this minty. with this advice
they comply, I will be answerable for it with my head,
I if necessary—(laughter)—l will be answerable, I say,
for whatever credit I may ever have enjoyed
among them as an humble advocate of their
cause in this place, that the question will be as
certain of being carried to their heart's violent, as if the
bill for that purpose had this evening received the loyal
assent—(Hear). Nothing can now prevent it from
being carried—(Hem)--nothing can make it be carried
coupled with what would be to them and the rest of
our fellow-subjects an infringement of the constitution.
except their persisting in association., in meetings, and
other proceedings, when the occasion for those meet-
ings, associations, and proceedings, must be admitted
by the country, at least by all impartial men, to be
Irons th's night henceforward entirely at an end. On
this occasion tt will. perhaps, be superfluous -to say,
that, laying aside all patsy feelings end prepossessions,
1 heartily rejoice in this great and good work being on
the point of being accomplished by whose hands
soever—(Cheers). Who dares. who can stop to ask
by whom it has been done?—(Hear. hear, hear).
So that it only is done, who can stop to inquire which
p •rty in the state it has been carried by, or whether it
was a party out of doors or a party in doors, or whe-
ther the advantage had been for this person or that, so
that the great and inestimable advantages of civil
peace, religious cons rd, quiet at home, and indepen-
dence abroad, were secured to the country—(Cheers).
Nothing shall now induce us to step forward far the
purpose of, as there is no necessity for it, resetting to
fotmer times or former petty jars. Let us all unite in
fathering this good wink, and, if there are any squab-
bles or party differences to adjust upon minor points.
we shall have plenty of time to settle them after we
have rendered the most lasting and general b. nelit to
the country that, I will venture to say, Patliament has
rendered to the country for the last musty.
Mr. TRAN 1• said, that he had hitherto given his
humble but zealous 'tarpon of the Government, In the confidence
of the leaders of it being firm supporters of the Protestant Con-
stitution. He now found himself most bitterly disappointed. He
bad listened to tuo many of the snood° arguments of the Right
Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Peel) on former occasions. to be de-
luded by the sophistry of the weak and languid speech which he
had made in his new character of Catholic emancipator. He Might
say that, in Ireland at least. it never would he believed that be had
not been intimidated. He (Mr. T.) supposed that, if the details
of the promised Bill were not con►idered proper, the doors of the
House would be beset by the Irish Catholics now in London. In-
deed. Mr. O'Cuonell is rs•ported to have said, that, if be was re-
fused his seat in this House, " What if the hundred thousand
Irish in London were to set fire to the four corners of the city r
Mr. Peel had said, that be coulJ not carry on the business of the
Government with the present House of Commons. Why, then,
did he not appeal to the people of England, who were now ready
to return a Houst which would enable him to conduct affairs on
true convocational principles? He (Mr. Trans) lamented that the
Right Hon. Gentleman's courage bad failed him in the very mo.
mint almost of victory. Hiving shown such want of firmness,
be (Mr. Train), however painful the avowal was, must declare
that be could not again trust him as a leader.

Mr. MAXWELL declared thst his opinion on lb.
subject was totally unaltered. He eursceived that no further privi•
urges could be granted to the Catholics with surety to the Proses.
taut Coustitution. 'That opinion was every day streogtbened
circumstances. He must, therefore, protest against the
Address. Ou every ocea•iou, as long u be bad a sear in that
or breath in his body, he would uproot the Catholic (lOW'S% hs
• whatever shape it aught be produced.
Mr. CRESSET PELHAM expressed hi, deep re-
iret at the abandonment by the Right Hon. Secretary of Stare for
the Home Urpa►tment, of the principles which he had hitherto
_
i:b

alaintained witii so onsel flraroeis and seccais.
General (i &SCOW NE must, as an Englishman and
a Piotestanr, declare me apprehension wh ch had been
est iced in his mind by the language in the Speech from
the Tilton.. He had listened with great attention to
the Right H 'n. Gentleman's explanation. and he must
sip that a more unsatisfactory one he had never heard
wince he had the honour of a ►eat in that House. The
flight Hon. Gentleman hid declared thatreasons of
of state had induced him to change the sentiments which
be had once maintained; and the sexy grounds on
which he now consented to concession *vie those on
which he had uniformly, and again and again
led those whom he now left in the lurch. He lamented
the comae Mitch had been pursued by the Right Hen.
Gentleman. lot more reasons than one. He lamented it
'for the immediate caust ; he lamented it 4nr the sake of
the Right Hon. Gentleman himself; he lamented it be-
cause in fu ore no confineoce could be placed in the as-
surances • f any Minis er. He could not allow any
Mi-
uister in that House whose infallibility demanaed no
esplanation. These was, thAnk Goo. a poser there not
less influential than that r f the Cabinet—he meant the
voice of the peewits lie trusted that Wine this grand
alteration t f the Cetutitution was made, the presoga-

IhhEIMMENNIMIIIIMMmEENNE