Star.
London, England, 1816-06-07 00:00:00

leis#n a lesson -from a Republic, and should at least
not fix -for. ever upon an arbitrary end despotic go-
vernment as a sui!jeci. of imitation. In coaclusion lie
' Would observe, that the present bill was not. drawn
up on the conditions of a fair bargain with the public.
*The bargain inede between the Crown and the coun
try it the beginning of the present reieei, had Leen
feequently violated, and all its advantages had gone
to the sovereign-without any to the public. It had
been violated not oily twice or. thrice, but 'evert or
eight times ; and )et wee were now called upon to
supply a fixed income to the civil list, and at the
same time to leave it all its fluctuating revenues from
the acquirement anal asession of which so many
dimes might sprees:re'
The Earl of HA RROWBY entered into several
expkinit ions on points advanced in the speech of his
Noble rriend (Lord Liverpool), and contended
sigeinst the construction put upon them by the last
speataT. He maintained, that if the Crown had not
entered into the agreement with the public by which
it surrendered its hereditary-revenues, it would have
in the course of this reign been a gainer to the amount
of six mil.ions money. The civil list, so ler as that
part of it that went to support the personal splendour,
or to supply the personal comforts of the Sovereign,
was concerned, had increased very little over the
seven years ending 1811. The only addition to its
expenditure last year arose from the changes in our
. , foreign relations, by which a greater number ,it di-
plomatic agents was required to be, supported—a
happy circumstance, and a source of charge which
be hoped would long continue. The Noble Lord?
(Holland) had spoken efehe dicks of the Admiralty.
He (Lord Herrowby) would not enter into the ori-
in of the tight of the Crown to the disposal of this
kind of revenue, the control- that Parliament might
exercise over it, or the other questions connected
with the subject; but if he were to examine the ten-
dency of this right by the light of experience, he
would say that he saw no reason for the apprehension
entertained by the Noble Lord who spoke last. The
evil he dreaded was no leis than that the Sovereign
might engage in unjust wars for the purpose of fil-
ling the civil list exchequer by droits. The fear was
chimerical. The crown could not act in such itnpor-
cant affairs us war or peace except through the rae-
dim of resp 'merle advisers, and would any Minis-
ter entru,!ed with an office in the government of the
country b.: so uie.vise, so inconsiderate, or so profli.
gate, as to plunge the nation into the expenses and
dangers of an impolitic and unjust war for the sake
of a. little paltry gain to the IL lel revenue ? in point
of fart this had never been the case, and these reve-
nues had been as well managed as any other. Nearly
three utilise is of the droits of the Crown had within
the course of a few years !:een contributed by the
Crown v. the public service. He would be unwilling
to deprive the Crown of the power of making such
grants to tee peeple, and of thus tOrcing it to have
no other transactions with the public, except when it
apPled to Parham tat to pay hs debts, or remove its
embarrassments. He would consider it as a subject
of grave consideration to deprive the Crown of a pri-
vilege that had existed in it for so many ages, ani
that it contributed as much to the public benefit as
to C:£ personal dignity of the Monrech.
Lord HOLLAND, in explanation, stated, that be
could not at present compute the full amount of the
terc.litery revenue of tiie Clown ; but he thought
fist f would not have been so productive as was held
out by Ministers. It was well known what the post
office, as regulated by Parliament, produced; but its
revenues could not be se easily c acuLted if they had
remained in the hands of the Sullen ign. In point of
fact, he would repeat that, all things considered, the
expenditure of the civil list bad tripled the sem con-
templated as sufficient at the commencement of the
present reign. The droits of the Admiralty were
enormous, from the practice followed of late of making
ad declaration of war till a blow was struck.
Lord LIVERPOOL explained. The droits of the
Admiralty were in existence in 1760, when the here-
ditary revenues ware tranferred to the public, and
though they must have been in contemplation of Par.
liament, no regulation was made concerning them.
This afforded an evidence of what the legislature
thought concerning the right of the Crown to their
disposal. We were then in the middle of an impor-
tant and expensive war, and the droits in the hands
of the Ci own at the time were great, so that they
could not have escaped notice in any arrangement
with regard to the revenue of the Crown. As an ad-
ditional proof that the Parliament of that time did not
wish to interfere with them, or to legislate on the
• subject, it rhight be mentioned, that when a sum was
voted out of them for the public service, it was after-
wards revoted for the use of the Crown. The Noble
Lord had re:erred to the Government of America as
an example of economy in its civil expenditure. He
did not know on what evidence the Noble Lord re-
lied, but he might mention as a fact that perhaps
would excite surprise, that the expenses for defraying
the civil government of the United States was reariy
equal to our own civil list expenditure. He had heard
this from a person on whose veracity and means of
information he could depend, and had taken a me-
morandbm of it at the time. Of course in this esti-
mate was includedahe charge of the provincial as well
the general governments. The sum was stated at
about £700,000 or se:-.00,000 annually.
Earl GROSVENOR :poke against the appoint-
ment of the new officer of audit with a salary of
£idUo a year.
The Bill was then read a second time, and com-
mitted for Monday.—The House adjourned.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
VI. I GRAHAM presented a Petition from Mary-la-bonne,
signed by 1,600 persons, composed of the Vestry and Proprietors
of against the new Street Bill.
Petitions from pet-suns in the Leather Trade were presented
front several places :n the country.
Au Address was voted, on the motion of Sir J. C. Hi PPISLEY,
fa. Papers respecting the situation of Roman Catholics in foreign

countries.
A Petition from some pace In Lincolnshire was,received re-
specting the importation of foreign tarn.
Mr. MM-L 1 1-1 plesented Petitions against the nes/ Street
and Sewer Bill. from St. Anne's and St. James's Parishes.
A Bill for regulating the Duties and Ittwards of Coroners was
brought in, reaa a lire: time, and ordered to be read a second
time to:morrow.
'be Bridge Amendment Bill`
f Suaud was read a third time.
petitions were received from Victuallers of Plyntouth, from
Tanners at Carlisle, and from Distillers at Fa:kirk.
-A
Report respecting Fees and Salaries of Law Courts in Eng-
bed, Scotland, and Ireiand, was received.
%lc Anoxic= Couvendon wt. brought tip ivy Mr. F. Ro•

ate sots read a first titer, sad okra to be read a second ti nt
to-morrow.
Mr. M. A. TAYLOR, is adfrAing to the Metropolis Paving
Bill, said that nothing new was contemplated in it, of which the
obj ct was to remedy the evils eamplained of within the bills of
mortality, bet not to medals with turnpike toads. Ihe inten-
tion W 44 to give additional powers, to prevent the evils affectiag
the pavements Wm the operation of the Water-works and Gas.
light Companies, to give the Parishes the meant of augmenting
funos, to prevent public inconveniences, and to make it evident
to all, who are elie,eurveyors or other officers. Ile moved the
wend reading of the Bib, which was coned, and ordered to be
commtned to-morrow.
Mr. CALCRVIET presented a Petition from the Electors of
Rochester respecting the acceptance of the place of Treasurer of ,
Greenwich Hospital by one of their Representatives, Sir T. B.
Thompsit. 'I hey considered it as an office of profit under the
Crown which rendered their Member's seat void, and they
prayed for a new writ for that City. Mr. Calcraft moved that
the Petition should lie on the table, intending to move the consi-
deration of it on Wednesday.
Lord CASTLEREAGH said be bad 110 objection to its lying
on the table.
Mr. CA I.CRAFE observed, that the Petitioners now prayed
for a decision which had been, on a former occasion, avoided by
the previous question.
Mr. TIERNEY remarked, that the Noble Lord seemed as yet
to have voted in the dark. The question as to the nature of the
appointment was of some importance; but the House had passed
it by. Was this office to be considered merely as a erofessional,
military, or naval apj ointment ? The Honourable Member al-
hled to sat hi the Rouse without any decision having been made
on his particular case: '!'here should he idisiinct motion to de-
tide the question. It was a mater of great importance to ascer-
tain what were the grounds on which seats were vacated.
Mr. CALCR AFT said he wished on Wednesday to bring the
Subject to.the question of aye or no.
Petitieet was ordered to lie on the table.
In comet:pence of a remark from Mr. Tar II tr,_
Mr. CALCR AFE gave notice, that on Wednesday he would
move for a new writ fur Rochester, in consequence of the accep-
tance or the Once now held by Sir T. B. Thompson.
Mr. PALMER •,1 to be Wormed by the Noble Lord
upon the Bench below, whether (.overonsent were in possession
of any authentic el:noose ins on the subject of an awful event
stated to have happened in the Wend Barbadoes, in which, it
was reported, the lives of a great number of persons were lust,
and property atoms) ed to a great extent ?
lord CAS I'I.b.REACIi answered, that Government had not
yet received the details of' the melancholy event alluded to.
Mr. PALMER race notice, that on Thursday, the Itith, he
should submit to the cousidetation of the House a moduli on the
subject of that event.
General THORN I'ON moved for a select Committee to en-
quire into the fahrica•lon and circulation t.t forged Bank-notes.
Mr. MANNING could see no reason why the Dank ehoeld
riy forged notes. How would any proposition of that nature he
considered by any conunercial house ? To make the Bank gay
these note% would be encouraging forgery. The Bank did all
they could to prefect the public, and there appeared no Parlia-
mentary ground for the motion.
General THORNTON hoped some additional eitcautiobs
would be adopted, and that impruvements would take place in
the Bank-notes.---The Motion was instilled.
Mr. BENNET presented two Petitions from Lud-
low—one against the Insolvent Act, and the other
against great Military Establishments.