Star.
London, England, 1827-03-30 00:00:00

AIR. PARER&

LnrdKENYON wished to offer a few observations
to their Lordships notice, which, though he was con-
vinced they were irregular, he felt were Necessary to ex.
plain a misunderstanding which had occurred. In one
of the Morning Pape:s of that day, a paragraph had
been inserted relative to some proceedings which had
occurred in their Lordships' House, hut that paragraph
bad been insetted by his particular de,ire. He had de-
sired this, because he thought he had not done his duty
to the person whose Petition he had presented to their
Lordships' notice a few es ertings belts' e, in omitting to
notice an observation ohich ha i been made by his
Noble Friend (the Earl of Caledon), on the cross bench.
In transmitting that commonisation for publication,
his only intention was t t make amends for that omis-
ton. If he had tht uer.lit there was irrt in it t':e slightest
in ention .or e'en tendency Ivo make any Imputations
against auy individtia:s, he should feel that his conduct
id been very improper. He only wished to reply to
t!,e.observation of his Noble.Ftiend on the cross bench,
%%la) had complained Oat
_the Petition was resented
when the individual grviobt !ham the P.:thirst' sr as di
Irina wa. ilia in doe tueatr; —alai as he bad informed

Lord BOLL,
began his
bleach of
matted by
follow up
;hey were
any mo
mand those
paragraFh.

The Ear.
lend (Csrber
very much
leave t. pi
the most
which shou,
Laws in I
he concei'
considers,
that country,
N .ble Lord,
the subject r
forward at
would feel
holidays.

Ti:e.Ear)
in so low
but we unL
had; on for,
have to tr
Lordships
tend to sal
Petition ti
seated it,
however,
the English
into Irelanf.
noald not I
• The Eat
the Noble
supposit
more serioui
Poor Laws
saw many
prehensis
that of all
introducini
he would
Would tl
telling thi
they wei e
their Lqru.
employed their talent for making speeches, which he
admired as much as any man; but he conjured them
to choose sonic other subject for display than that be.
fore their Lordships. They could not choose one which
would inflict more suffering than the Poor Laws would
cause in-Ireland. •

The Eatl of DARNLEY explained. He only attri-
buted to the Noble Esrl most apprehension from the
Poor Laws. He agreed that the Poor Laws, as they
existed in. England, could not be introduced, into Ire-
land; but he could not agree, that in a civilized coun-
try, the poor should. be left to die without any notice.
It was not to be tolerated, though the* Lordships
might nut be able to find any remedy for this evil, that
it should not be Inquired into. He hoped the Noble
Lord, when he pt e ented the Petition he bad mentioned,
would make a specific motion, and that his Majesty's
Government would consent to take this subject into
consideration.

The Earl of LIMERICK ha 3 heard of people perish-
ipg, but he did not give credit to every thing which
appeared in the newspapers ; and did not people perish
of hunger in other countries as well as in Ireland-? It
was, he thought, not very likely to occur there, for the
peasantry of that country, with all their faults, were
as charitable and humane as any in the world.
L.rd HOLLAND was of opinion drat befo.e their
Lordships instituted an inquiry into what ought to be
done fo the relief of the poor in Ireland, they ought to
ascertain what had already bsen done. He was not
lawyer enough to know what was the state of the law,
for the relief of the poor in Ireland ; he had not any
,pa•ticular acquaintance with that part of the country,
but he cool. not believe that the Government cf.uld
have so long existed without some law which tended to
the relief of the poor. Tne first inquiry should he into
the state of the law on this point.
. The Earl of k:NNISKIIXEN knew that th re was
.no Noh:e Lord win) was a greater Is iend to Ireland

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'ARCH 30, 1827. . . , CPlCNKStvEretsor.
,•,;ti
.
..
Friend, he had two years before known it was chastise Noble Earl ; betelet thought a great dead of .
ion of the Petitioner to toffee the Petition to
mischief might be done by proposing .to introdiee s 1
i.hipa' notice. The Pe:it:loner had wished him Poor Laws into Ireland'. It woad excite hepes Among '
Ito present the Petition in 1825, and again in the peopleSvhich could leverbe gratified. Tee peireety ',
•
le then induced the Petitioner to refrain from of the people in Ireland was caused by a succession ,ot
his Petition, and he could not refuse to corn- bad crops, by an over-population, and by the Don tarsi-- •
• . t
his request this Seuion, as he pledged himself;-
dente of the landed proprietors.
:any Petition which had for its esoject some Lord REDESDALE stated, that in the neighboe ire ,
aion for his losses. - ii_ himself did not hood of Dublin there were collections made at the i 1
t Colonel Bird was in England in the year
Churches for the poor, and by that means they were
o
r did he know that he was &lent from relieved, The whole body ti the peepleovere• in- such ' /14
in 1827; and he trusted their Lordships would a state of poverty, that what they could" contrite:art
credit, when, he stated that he never would was not much. and they were unable to relieve rine
t.
I
e any persons to present Petitions against indi- eeether. He was afraid, however, that were 2 lye. t
ho were absent at the time. His only object tern of Poor Laws introduced it would destroy all • i
justice, and in that view be would briefly ad- industry among the people. The best mode of
relicso -
tether point. Jr had been stated that Mr. Par- ing the poor of Ireland, would be to introduce a better •iiilt:
that Colonel Bird was a Catholic when be bad system of farming, to abolish small farms, and have
se observations in his presence aghast the
a body of farmers like those of England. If darn
but the truth wee. that Mr. Patker did not were such a body of own there Would be
woe oz. I ' ,
t Colonel gird was a Catholic till aka the ployment, and not so mesh misery,iis Leland. Btu to , ,
he relative to his having brought witlakise a have them, several things verve necessary. The farmers. . 1
. b, 1.
Primt.
•eo • must have capital, and they must he toteltigent, for it
ark of CALEDON-had only stated thedfilet's was rather to the skill of the superintendents rips:. la-
Paiker had withheld his Petition in 1826, when bourets to which he looked, than to the libourees them- ,
I was present, and had presented it in 1827, selves. When small farmers cultivated land themselves. .
was absent. His only object, however, in the they grudge every shilling laid out for 'abeam, end their •
land was never properly ti led. In must cases. te'e e
vetiens he had addressed to their Lordships
ter evening, was not te attack M-. Parker% the Poor Rates were excessive, they were made, .o
but to defend that of Col. Bird. According either by +manufactories being established is the neigh. -
:sent -explanation, he was to understand. that, boarlmod, or by the land being divided, as internee _ to present the Petition tested with his Noblei
parts of Sussex, hen small portions. Wherever the
nd not with Mr. Parker. farms were large the labouters• were better •off titan
ORD CHANCELLOR said a few words, dis• where the farms were small. Ile did not +wish tosee
g of the observations of Lora Kenyon, as ine-
compulsory teli f for the poor introduced into belated. ll
ti condemning the inuoduction of t .e subject .as that would destroy industry ; and after* better eyes
•i i.,
Lordships 'some. tern of cultivation was-introcleced, probafill the hest i
.IOLLAND thought the Noble Lord, when he moJe of administering relief would be by voluntety
VI
; speech, meant to a make a complaint of a contributions. Iu Scotland thir Weii the general prat.
..
privilege, wh'ch it turned out had been Cont. tice, but in some ;slates compulsoty rates had been in- .
I himself.. Unless the Noble Baron memo to undue• d, and they had been follpived, he underi+d,
• • i
I i
r his observation by some motion, he most say by tinfav• arable con'seepienie-. - Connected wish this
r ext emely irregular. II be meant to make
subj.:co he most remind their Lordh ps of t e corn-
on, it must be, he thought, a eso inn to repel-
Laws,
At present the E relish market eat: dpen• r, , i 1
use who ha.l caused the publication of the Irish corn, and cultivation had beeitaterch 'extended in ,i
h—( A laugh). that count yby the +reclusion of foreign corn. 'lie it
poop LAWS IN IRELAND. hoped. therefore, that their Lordships would remember,
411 of DARNLEY said, that sessiog a Noble whenever the subject of the Corn Laws •came before
thery) in his pl.sce, who interested himself
them, the -bearings of these fives on the cultivation and i
•
•
h about the affairs of Ireland, he would beg prosperity of Behind. , put a qiestion to bias. Although he had no:
Ln-d EtLENBOROUGH. like the ,Noble Lord who 1 I
remote intention of making any propositioa introduced the subject, and like other Noble Lords, de-
ould have for its object the adoption of Poor
precated the introduction of the Poor Law system into
Ireland, he yet felt it his dirty to declare, that
Ireland. The N .ble Lord who had spoken first in-
ived their Lordships were b mod to take into
aims the state of the suffering population of sisted on the necessity of doing something ; but he en-
treated their Lordships to take care, it they consented
en-
try. lie thoefore wished to know from the
'rd. in what . . •
to whether he intended to bringwas
it
chips recollect how the English Pont Laws lied beak-: '
at all? fee if he did not, he (Lord De
:el himself called upon to do so, after the twisted from their original form, and consider, if sr
• i •
compulsory system were introduced into Ireland, if it i
would not be misted in the lime manner. Some in.. -
aeel of CARBERY rept es] to. the Noble Eal
quirks had already been made on this subject t and he ,
tone, that it was inaudihle below the bar,
was of opinion, that organising a system of voluntary
nderstood him to say, in sebstance, that he
collection and distribution, as had bests' recommended
rormer occasions, moved for some Returns, re-
by the Committee of 1822, was the only late tour se.—. •
the Poor of Ireland, which were then on their He entreated their Lordships, before they began wide.
Is' table; and though hbdid not at present in- any compulsory enactments, to consider wheie they , • , übmit any motion to their Lordships, he had a
t
to present on this subject, and when he pre-
meant to stop.
he should explain his views. He wished it,
The Earl of DARNLEY explained, that he had not / or, I
taken Ms infermatior from Newspapers, but from au-
, to be understood, that le did not suppose that , i
thority on which he could depend. He expressed onset
is system of Poor Laws could be introducedp
end; though he felt that the poor of Ireland doubt as to the effect of large sums, but was quite sure
could
not give immediate rebel. fie
t be left in their present situation. such a system
all of LIMERICK having been alluded to by had no intention of propo•ing any comeulsory laws, but •
e Earl, could assure him that he was mistaken
in the pre.ent state of Ireland the subject urg•ntly re.
• i
sing that he (the Earl of Limerick) entertained .
quiressl'h the consideration of their Lordships.
Esti of BELMORE meant only to meke an ob-
ious apprehensions on the subject of introducing •servation on a single point. Though there vrae •no
ws into Ireland than any other person. He Statute Law its Ireland for the relief of the Poor, there
y Noble Lords near him who felt quite as ap-
was a Co tin on Law, which was stronger than Statute ,
eon the point as he did, and were convinced, Law.
There was also a common right. which was
II mischiefs none could be so great as that of
rig Poor Laws in: Ireland. Was there not, considered so by the pauper, and acknowledged in be
so by those who never failed to give them relief-11*o,
I ask, misery enough in Ireland already ?
heat). li a law were to make it compulsory to pr vide
their L irdships call more into exivence, by
for the poor, that law would (Leninists the means •of
relower classes, already prone to sedition, th it. . r
for three now now
e starved by the upper orders? He called on pin existence. . .
rdships, for GOD s sake, to take care how they Several other measures were forwarded one stage.--- •
'—
a tho..i. tftlant fn. •7,1 II ;•• /I• .......1.... ...1.: AN 1.... Adjourned.