Star.
London, England, 1816-02-16 00:00:00

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• -. .
.
a;it• could it laslinttl*ed on, the mound
.-,w VW' 1 ew aid of a very different
*- ; t g which
he eonditct of the see of Reme,
e, that 4,_ ir -,,,,rtical influence of a dangsfrosta,
it lig", P:
:or --t
resisted.l .It nose from a. well.
yl
ip ii,n "-- : that the foreign
erenen,,,on. powers ro
also menaced the security.
1410t4P4 otestants had
°un-'
that no s
try, He could) however, now assure
"row • Lich consequences. were to be
~..,_,,
,flu"", %dawn Ames-that no intention now ex.
Oed-',lll---0 - t of any European State to menace,
11'2,;'--o(alte)y country ; and that there never was
Priv :ben-
.different religions wereleti enalstOed
he present. He could assure
each other than t
th at, the Congress. of ittenna•noi the
P°Mei - atreeling existed on the part of any of 1
00 the subject of religion; and he was
t not •tz mild* so-fatal to the world
dui' -
•1111 - e rival of those struegles that
o.oo.ent al)ac.osed.con
re tests between. Catholika And
Pot to state exactly.
teaate,"l44 II: was not in his
r•-, in a certain part 41 Fiance, hut be
I it
wood all sad in nothing. •He greatly la.,
a- -,has there ever should have been any interfre-
' -A: part of the Protestants of this country in
14.- sshichhad occurred in France I and still
111101.:at any imputation should be thrown out
0 w---- of France '(that most benevo.
the 80,,ereigss.
twig. he. would call him)---.(heee, kat)._
~0000,:tioa of his having countenanced the
-cos ' I uestion. People m this country bad
-..• in'ci citation against that'Sorereign, ai
.--t ,a,„° irelea)ll the arenas of toleration which
4.4ll',..aateue.'' . .: never "was' there a greater error
,yet which was called a persecution. of.
snce was only "a local evil, Wick'
~0180 min fr„---for si years, and that only in
trona" is
.arrieratlisnlirc-t of France ; and be really be, .'
'what throughout that district there was but one
„,„,.. ta
the subject of English interference, which
' -
from being useful, it operated as a
tomittlia4 s;
lar
the persons intended to be relieved.
r. ace was confined to one particular dis-
ond tie,
.oelvhhourtng districts had ,no concern
• ia t. Nothnig, therefore, could hoe sur-
d him 'mote than to hear it *twined as a fame
t ytcpstants bad been persecuted, and gun ..the,
arch fns in fault. On the whole, he concsoved
giothing could be more mischievouithan the mo-
lberifereace which took place. The Honourable
a
;Wean bad deduced an .argument in favour of
I.tttstian from the conduct heretofore pursued re.
mig. the Slave Trade ; but the cue was wholly
That interference arose not alone out of a
alining, but out of political and national inte-
al. per we had abolished the trade, it must
eaticeseur interest to see it abolished by all other
Mettin.' It was not, therefore, an improper inter.
laefp with Spain to discuss a great question of ge.
getialicywhich we conceived ought to prevail in
count. He conceived that the abolition might to
sieseral ell over the world. A recommendation
i:tait elect was Do interference in the interne: con-
*All other nations. Therefore he trusted the
Gentleman would see that the particu-
ole bad referred to bore no analogy so that
FMiume
ilia' be wend to establish ; that they were fouA.
id onarfiferest principle from what he would rest
it, sr that slay mould have results very different
app what be wished fut..-- He would not admit
Imy interference which. was calculated •to de.
• •• ; a.Soveteign..by rePreeenties Wm as
enrwrpd a tyrant. He would matron push
people so far as to recommend an interference•
Ibis br4 aas Amicable manner. • It was rather'
eivittlisonery made by the Honourable Gentle-,
Irks be called the . late Government in Spain.
• ....• Costes. In what instance, he asked, wait
Strembly allied .to the British Governtnent 1...,
whatever die Government might be, we had no
10 kitarfere in its internal concerns. He could
the House, that his Majesty's Government bad
Ilea wanting in its circlets to produce a better
of things in Spain. Broad as had been-the dif-
•- between us and the Cones, these had not pre.
.Miaiiters from interfering in belt& of its
•• . Every thing that could be done was
. lean amicable manner; but it would be highly
• • to do any 'thing in the way now proposed.
ay fault could be found with our Government.
• &chairing gone beyond the line of its duty in
respect. It must be recollected that the Cqua.
af AIM country had never been identified with
tithe Cortes of Spain, so far as SasOnake us re'
• It for their conduct. So far from our having
an/influence on the Cones or Regency of:Spatn,
liarquipof Wellesley was never able to bring the
. - yto adopt such measures as were necessary to
Lord Wellington to carry his plans into
. Before he established his. lines of defence at
Vedns, an application was made for establish
'fashion in Spain, and Lord Wellington asked
be awed to have postemsion of Cadiz ; and the
- whose acts we were now. told • had been our'
refused to allow the Duke of Wellington to take
Odom . It was contrary to all historical faets to
that she British Government had any influence
the Government of Spain. It was an admirable
.. le mankind to know, that the Cones did try to
their country by levelling all the ancient orders,
' irkinctions of Spain. and by constituting unix
Amenably in the country. It was this yet y con.
01i the part of the Cortes that gave rise to all the
. •s of Spain, and produced the contrary ;and
.14 reaction on The part of the Monarch. The:r
.... was similar to that of the Jacobins in France,
• • ng that sovereignty rested io the people alone.
Aiwtish authatitieshad triedto withdraw fromahe
of Wellington the powers they had granted him,
which were necessary for the satety of the country:
the Duke of Wellington was at last driven to the
•• , of declaring, that if the powers he required
• withdrawn, he would rather withdraw from
and contend aglinst France with the lisitish
.....' I alone, and the vote law giving him full powers
-7. carried in the Cortex, by a vet y small mareitY i
:44 very Likrales, whose cause the Honourable
leitletnan now pleaded, were id the minority on.
L._ nceasinn. Indeed it was not on the Leberales.
7on the ancient Nobility, end on the old Spanish.
`ac ter that Great Britain could ever rely for co.
'iteration. Sir H. Wollesley hair done .every Ain*,
lbe Noble Lord could assure the House, fur the came
44.ce. patriots and for the establishment of their Con-
-144‘46 the Honourable Member had dWelt at'
stable length
upon the quantity .of British

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money ' drat .had' 4181.4 eriiPhiYid In, mini. Si
trantactiaos ; but-he eiiiild confident 4 initial
that what. he had edited on that head was eironenttai
and lie. Mutt heie been Misinformed Upon the subject.
The only sum of Mosey that he rec.llected as basing
been tianunived 'to the Spanish Government, vias'
4000 . dollars between April and-December,
.1814.—
Beery. exertion lead been used, both nn the part of
this Government and of Ferdinand VII. himself, to
giVe a free Government but OM a particular one to
the country. As to the assertion that British Officers,
had hern employed fur the establishment of Ferdi-'
nand nn his thrpne, Ile believed# that the great man.
wh-sename Must be ever famous in the annals of hie
country, bad engaged in the Cause because he had
pledged lis . assistance. and he knew that what ler.'
vices he had .afforded were given to his Men &rad-
saptage, both as regarded his pritrate affairs and the
,Adv•oicement of his public interest. That the. Noble
Doke had no interested views in the concerns of Spain
w.s well known. fur there had been a declaration pub-
lished to that effect, .Tire Monarch bad been des-
cribed as coming amongst his faithful people to act
o'er again the deceithil and tyrannical game of Bo-
naparteA but he dietied the assertion ; he denied every
accusation of auch.having . been the intention of Fer-
dinand Vf I. I he denied thatsuth had ever beeninia-
gined •by Government to have been his intention.—
With respect' to the Treaty of Valencia, by which be
bad acknowledged to.stippoit and preserve the power
of the (twtes, he koew that Ferdinand was compel.
led to subscribe to that declaration ; and to 'hew
that. he was not acting of his own.will but by cont.
,pubis*, he had taken.. an early
.° ortunity of dis-
avowing his everlutiing i 3 its conditions.
1 The ueiniaa of Sic }linty .Walksley -bad been.
that he came into Spain wills the resolution to ells.
blish the Constitution. but his found it !mainly con.
eery to the spirit and general disposition. of his sub-
ieCls, and be at length abolished st against Isis own
inclination. The alterations in the general spirit of
the people which had been attempted to be made,
tended always rather 'to prevent the factual exer-
tions -of the British troops, and in all measures of
assistance had. been. a counter-actin circumstance.
The people were attached to Ferdinand as children
to their Lather ; and amongst other instances of the
general approbation with which he was received, be
-should remind the House that.he was drawn without
horses by the crowd from Araojuez to Madrid on his
return to the seat of his ancestors. It was a danige-
roes thing to attempt to pull down a system of Go-
vernment, because it was not known
.thst the new
erection might not be worse than the former; and 'it
would be remembered, that it was nothing but„the
extravagant conduct of the Cortes that brought down
upon their own heads the severity, a there had beige
any, that was the. subject of complaint. That their
punishment was not the harbinger of any measure
that might be dreaded- by the friends of peace and
good order, was evident from the documents which
bad been published on the ascension of Ferdinand. net
the throw: those documents contained nothing. ton
trary to the purest spirit of liberty. but rather pro
misedevery thing that afreeGetternment could requite.
There was. he considered, not the least necessity for
the interference of the house in theieoncerne of
Spain ; because. as every necessary felnollatranen had
been made. with the Government of that country.
ttarier internseddliag would but trod to lower the
ch in ibe eyes of his subjects, without pro
Owing any real boteficial eats. The--N.Alie Lord
defended the' punishnbentie of several Generals' who
had been engaged in the war before die return• oh
'Ferdinand. and considered the conduct of the Bishop
of °cruel. who had been at the bead of the Regency,
as most i te-mplery and praiseworthy. 'That venerable
men had been always guided by the principles of the
parestbenevolenee anz disintereptednassi and bad even
refused a larger and more lucrative Bishopric than
his owiti.leteettse be considered that woildiy motive.
might have influenced him in receiving it. He hoped
from every argument that he had btought forward,
that the Honourable Member would see the imp.licy
and inutility of the Spanish Cruise's, in which he
seemed willing to engage the country ; he trusted
that lie would see his error in having imagined that
the Government nt Great Britain had looked tainel)
on upon the conduct of Spain without•thinking it ne,
cessery to interfere, and he trusted that he would
perceive' that a more fit opportunity fur his iutrestiga ,
Doh would occur 'on the day which was not tar dis-
tant, when the House Was to enter at large upon the
Jiscuision of the political situation of Eitrope. The
Noble Lad concluded his' speech by declaring that
there never was a ' motion 'which •Ite considered as
more proper to be negatived, and should therefore
vote decidedly against it. •
Lord JOHN RUSSELL expressed. his. opinion,
that this tOWILry was in justice and honour bound In
interfere in behalf of the Spanish Patriots. whole suf-
ferings, in a great measure, arose frnm their etemee-
'don with, and friendship for this country. In answer
to the Charge Of precipitancy which had liken
.made against the present motion, be shoUld hat oh,
serve, that 111411 y months had elapsed sitter the pantie.
tic blentbers of the Cortes had been visited with such
signal vengeance. (liser,hear.). 'lt was, he reisar.
ked, a tact generally understood, thatat the present
moment, in the. prisons of Madrid twelve b
victims were inCarcerated, and fivelitindred at Cam,:
'suffering, for the most part. in :roftultsolc•-of their
patriotism and attachment to us, their former allies.,
If any precedent beyond those already adduced. Was
required. he would mention the interpositionof Lord
Wellington in behalf of a favourite, who bad been
.condemned by the Coates. .In consequence of this in-
terposition anew trial was granted,' and the criminal
was acquitted I (Neer, hear, hew.)
Alderman smirk' entered into a jestification of
his Majesty'. Ministers, and objected to any interfe-
rence with foreign-Goternmentt ost the part of Oppo-
sition Members, as such iftertereneet eras contrary to
their own principles. • ,
General MATTHEW &Saged . that k 1110 not'
been his intention to eddreseehe guise on this nuns-'
that, but he could tiocrentain eileni after listettittg to
the doctrine of the. Huanurphie Alderman. TO, j 048411
by his language,. be seemed to Oink .that .because!,_
Ministers had interposed. thee* who sat On h111,e414.01
the House ought nut to be allowed to.titelif any Cib;:
setvatious, or. AO open lb* ihotths at all, .iiiiii.as•
It not true.. that lipaig riff
_Wens:jug tied!! theittioet.
shameful tyranne eve, Wart 4* 01.1cieft or kSalifsti
times
.1... (.4 keel ) 411 14119W0.10. 41444,!01'941

,;_l_:

.• • ,
wis he h 2 221 it from tM
aid* larirdl,.:titrir *hi Oighieal leader mid Wolof the
oilier side j. apsl in. one respect be was. glad of it, or
• acconnt, of ids iltsr sentiments of cooCiliad in to
wardi livitntd. at Noble Lord had' onlhe first
Right of the Session ft-bilked his.llonostrible .and
distinguished Friend (Mr: Iliongluirn) for his ani.
astadversions On the Conduct of that usurper and de-
teitable-nsortster, Ferdinand VII.-,(4laugh.)—Btte••
the Noble Lord had not been able to stop the mouth
,of. his Honourable Fiiend„np, nor the mouths of
otheis.---(4 bad loch.) thef suppose that the I
Noble Lord, or . any Minister among them, could
stop the mouth of change the sentiments of any oe
hid side of the House 1. They might dictate to
'foreign Rings, Princesi and EMperors, but they
should not dictate to them, who were free Citizens,
the repreSentatives of the nation, and who were sup...
riot to all their corrupt machinations.—(4 fairek.).:
That was the only assembly now in the world where
Sings and Princes might learn* what was thought of
them ; and he knew personally, that in every come,
of the Continent the rEPorts -of moceedings in that:,
Home were sought after with the greetest avidity.— '
(Hear, bear.)-I'he'Noble Lord might • tell them, if
be pleased. that enough had been done; bat be was
happy that the public voice was raised against the
iniquitous conduct of that iniquitous monster, Ferdi-
nand of Spain. —(A laugh.)—Would not every man
whit loved freedom be glad to see him hurled from
his illoritten and blood•stained Throne ? Neva, he
trusted, would this country spill another drop of
blood, or spend another shilling in his defence. No.
*Chad been too long duped ; we had exalted alive
eqnoyn in arms and in diplomacy byahe exertion* of•
fps Noble Lord on the Continent ; but what were-tlie
fruits 1 Little better than general bankruptcy add
distress. as would be made mote• manifest on Mon."
day se'nnight, when there was to be a call of the
though he biased some indulgence would be
awn to his honourable countrymen, of whom many
had actually no money to enable them to come over.
(A toed laugh.) Here the landlord contrive& to ob:
tain one-fourth of his rents, bin in Ireland he could
get nothing.
Mr. BENNET said, from the information he had
reeelvedzespecting the former Government and Cortez'
of Spain, he could deny that there was any hostility
of the Likrala against this country There might
have been some points on which a difference of opi-,
nion prevailed ; but there was .n general hostility
ever manifested on the part o• that body. This is-
formation he relied on, having been consmunicaind
to hint by an Officer from that country. Their co.
operatir with us in the campaign against the corn
moo enemy had been so material to the result, we•
owed to them a debt of gratitude. He hoped tbak
the House would take into their set ious consideration
the state of those Unfortunate itulivi.to as now can.
filed in dungeons, and associated‘with the lowest of
society. The conduct pursued in Spain brought
back to our view those times which the g00..1 and the
serilightened now contemplated with horror, In re-
spect to the interference of his Were'. Govern-
ment, he hoped it might have done good ; but. any
recommendation on their part was not likely is be
strengthened by the orders which had been b"stowed
upon the Spanish Monarch, because those honours
*Might have induced him to suppose that his Govern.
ment would be supported by that of Great Britain.
The Honourable Gentleman was als t of opinion,
shat if ioteverettres like that exercised by the Duke
of Wellogton for I,is friend, had been resorted to on
,the account of the other sufferers, much amelioration
Aye them might have been procured.
-Mr .11ROUGHAM said, that in reply he should
trouble the House with a very words. He was ready
to admit that he was taken by surprise in hearing vie
declaration of the Noble Lord. that this country had'
interfered, that his:Majesty's Government had in-
strccted our Minister at the Court of Spain, in favour
of those nuferiunate individuals. How was it /*mi.
We for him to divine this conduct of the Covent-
m . •
ent ? motion be now made was put off from
time to time, and yet the Noble Lord preserved com-
plete silence 'woo the subjeit, and it was not likely
that 1w ( lsmugham) should imagine that this
silence was intaded to signify some steps had been
taken to acconylish that which was the object of the
present motion., It appeared as if the Noble Lord
had studisohly preserved silence upon every occasion,
whenshis subject had been mentioned, with a view
to entrap th.• motion before the House, and by sur-
ptise to give the information in a triumphant manner.
But certainly his triumph was greatly diminished,
mien we called to our recollection the proceedings
' which had taken place since tholath of May, 1814.
Since that period these Deputies and Members of
the Regency were still in damp and•darksonae dun-
es. Fur two months, until the sth of July at
these miseries still accompanied them—(Hear.)
Ors the sth of July a Treaty of Alliance had been
made with the Government of Spain, and although
thaw was interference almost about every thing, there
was ne isitarierence about these Deputies and Mem-
bers of the Regency. After Vais it was. that the Gar-
ter: waa sent to decorate Kong Ferdinand. But down
Airiest December, during a period of twenty months,
telithing 110-;ticeti done; for instead of opening the
doors of dicir duegeons and setting these asehappy
anon at Islierti, the Idonerkii Of Ilmata ordered that
they should b tried by * Special Commission, and
&co being displeased with the decision of these Com-
missioners, he proceeded to try and punish them him.'
self. With. all these
.events before him, be. (Mr.
Ilronsham) might be excused from supposing that
(outline had been doge on the part of the Government
of. this country. This wai the first dine he had been
mode acquainted with their conduct, end-he had no
doubt of the instructions given, and the conduct at-
tributed to that Honourable Gentleman, Sir H. Wel-
liesley. At the same time, under aU these circumstan-
ces, he was anxious to know at what period tbiainter-
Aim, Ince bad been made, for if it occurred before De-
cenibor last, it would then be clear that it hid not the •
' desired effect, and he should sill persist in the object
01 his motion. If the endeavour to relieve these suf-
. ferv4 hadbeen made since Deceotberi he should be
disputed to Withdraw his motini, and to wait for the
• result.. 'lbis. was the most obvkias 'coarse he amid
pursue, and he should guide himself by the answer
which the'NOble Lord Might return.
Mr.W.POLE observed, thit it had been repeatedle
remarked both by himself mkt others in that House,
tbausinte the entrance of Ferdinand into Spain. every
dale 1)11141 *St 911' therm of this GOY= mak

xo induce that Monarch. to accept the Coestititiinn,
rand to Gee individoals, from. pianishment. Hr was
astonished at the declaratinn which had been mad,
that the course
,pursued
.was sot known till rum,
when it was even ,well known tn Ole Li'heirrles thom-
,selves. His N ,ble Friend had not therefore taken
the house by surPriie. It was well -known that ne
Jean wormed more popular to his own country than
King Ferdinsnd, and no men were more imp puke
an the L.beralei. He was sorry, for the sake it
these unfortunate individuals themselves, that at- '
tempts had been made on the other side of the H u e
to vilify 'and tun don% the character of the King of
Spain ; and these attempik. were one great cause of
die rigoiw to these men ; far it that King had bemt
left to himself, he would have been disposed to be
more lenient to these sufferer. The .newspapers of
this calvary went to Spain, echoing to them 'die oh-
nervations of this House, augmented by paragraphs
of an inflammatory nature. With respect to, the mo-
tion, the Hooourable Gentleman might dispose of it
according to his own pleasure.) but he had the night
received a lesson—(Cries of Order Order). —He did
not mean the expression in an offensive way, hut the •
information he had received from his Noble Frien),
would drew that he ought to have considered what
might have been done, before he made to the House
a potion like the present.
Mr. BROUGHAM, •in explanation, hoped tte
Right Hon. Gentleman, when he reminded him of a
lesson again, would express himself more.fccording
to the meaning he intended to convey. With respect •
to his motion, if the interference alluded to had not
beetikelscessful, it would not heave prevented his sub-
mitting the subject to the House, but certainly, its
that case bilshould have shaped his motion bun*
what differently from the present. .
Lord CASTLE ItEAGH. eruld not but lepert.
that if the interposition of his Majesty's Ministers bad
not been attended with all the success that rtfipt
have been wished, the intervention of the tflu.e. so
far from doing gal.!, might only produce ulterior
mischief.

Mr. TIERNEY said, that if he thought the couise
of negociation which Ministers were now purpling
was at all likely to produce a a beneficial resllt, hat
'should certainly advise his Honourable and Learned
Friend to withdraw his motion ; but there appeared
to be A disposition to force the to a division, rather
than to &ive that clear and :necessary iiitotmation
which his Hon. Friend had requested. He (Mr.
Tierney) begged the House to coasider, that the than,
ner is which the lsberales had treated seemed so
have rouse.l the Same feelings of indignation in his
Maje,ty's -Ministers as had been expressed by Gently.
Merl on that side of the House. If the Government
of England, and the duet ether great powers, had
made representations which had not been attended to,
then it Wdi not too much to ask the Noble Lord

whether he di.l not want some auistance ? It might
he alleged that any further interference would be ex-
trtmely improper ; but if all the attempts of those
.great powers h Id proved entirely useleas, then a tifto
power, the Commons of England, should not be de-
terred from expressing their opinions. .
Lord CAS rid EREA.d H saw that the Right .Ho.
nourahle Geutkman had only risen to extricate his
Learned Friend from the difficulties into which he
had fallen ; but he was fully convinced that the
Right Hon. Gentleman woul.l greatly emharras. the
attempts of Ministers by. supporting the present
;potion.
Mr. TIERNEY could not understand what the
Noble Lord meant by the difficulties of his Honour-
able and Learkeis Friend. In his opinion, there had
been no reply whatever to the 'argumentitive part Of
his speech ; and, indeed,,no person had attempte.l to
answer it, except the Worthy Alderman—(a trez4.)
Mr. Alderman SMltli explained.
The House then divided--Agaiast the Motion 123
—For it 42—Majority SI.
Air CHARLES MONCK moved for the copy of
a Letter from Lord Collingwood to. Mr. W. Pole,
dated October 1809, relative to the louian Islands ;
also for the articles of capitulation of three islandr,
lord.Cellingwood's report on taking , then, under
our protection, and a copy of any instructions winch
had been sent to his Liirdship, respeetiug the wpm.-
sular Government, previous to 1809.
Lord CASTLEREAGH had n 3 objection to
produce all those documents, except: the last.. In.
Structions given to an Ofli:er could only becosne im. •
portaut in case he had acted wrong. There had been
no instructions whatever as to the assurance give.l to
the inhabitants of the lonian Island s for the restora-
tion of their Goiernment. It had arisen merely horn
' the spur of the moment; but, he had the satisfactoo
of saying. that,the 'spirit of.that assurance had tw, n
executed in a manner that was at ist acceptable to
die people.
Sir FiEDERICK FLOOD m-v:d for an account
of the quantity of butter imported Irons Irelaed tit'
lag the four. last years ; also, for an arcouot tat the
quantity of beeter imported into London in foreign -
vessels during the same period.
Mr: HQ.R.NER said, that lie bad given notiercthe
other..evening, of his intention to mnve for a ;taper
relative to the apportionment of the lurces Ire'em.
ployed the Allied Powers in France. tre
since looked into the Treaties which had been laid
upon the table. and begged to know whether this
matter was sitfficiently explained, for the purposes of
discussion on Monday nest, in the note of the Aili.ti
Minliters to the Duke de Richelieu t •
Lord CASTLEREAGH replied; that that docu.
ment would'be quite sufficieni.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
brought up the report of the Committee of Supply,
which was agreed to.
Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of. the
Committee on Foreign Vessels..—Agreed to.
-Mr. GRENFELL moved for an account of the
balances of public money in the hands of the Bank of
England during the last year.
On the mown of Mr. HORNER. the House went
into a Committee on the Freehold' Estate Bill. Re.
port tomorrow.
BROODEN brought in' a Bill for relieving
Earl Gower from certain penalties which his Lord-
ship had incurred, by sitting and voting in thP.H. use*
without having.taken the oaths required by intr.—.
Read a first time, "and ordered to be read a emit i
time to-morrow.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
gave notice of his intention to brie is
fate the clergy Ilesideace. Aet.
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