Star.
London, England, 1818-02-24 00:00:00

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portunity would soon again occur. The pc:lzi
stated, that many valuable libraries and (•.,..e.'S".3
had been purchased by the British 31....5e:rr., ;34
that the late Dr. Burney had collected are-, ere,
sive and valuable liLrAry; whica was le.y
the public attention, and whith'his son •;:,. Ridgy
to allow to be purchased for the public a&antare,
The petition also, as we understood, prayed rt,
leave to bring up a second petition, req les;i7
aid•of Parliament in the purchase of the

tjt

- .
The petition was laid on the table; and the
petition was brought np; ansiardered to be refn
to a Committee, which was -na'rned, and whit!: Tb
ceived permission to adjourn from place to F:ace.
TI WA gC
Mr. D:GILBERT brought up the Report of Li
Committee on Income and -Expenditure, u!.ich
ordered to be laid on the table and to be printed.
Sir C. MONCK wished to make an obien-ritte
the subject of the Report. The Chancellr.r
Exchequer had promised. that if the actual etpea
ture should not exceed the estimates, and the re.eip
and the estimate should be in their e:,petted Kerr.
lion, the revenue would exceed theeipenditure.
wished the-Right Honourable Gentleman would te:l
the House whether his opinion was changed on ;11x
subject, or that he would faiocr them with whalne
acconnt he might be-enabled; from his infortus,
to lay before them.
The,CHANCF.LLOI2 ef;the EXCHEQUER said,
the House would remember tharthe had conceive;
from the expenditure of last year, that the produce
of the revenue would be comiderable. It would be
found,. by compering the different sums in the more
pointed out, that dwell would be, in reality, in tl'e
income, including the Sinking Fund, a surp::::
your of the public 0f'3,000,C1001.

EMPLOYMENT OF CHILEMEN IN MANUFACTI%R:N.
Sir ROBERT PEEL would take the liber.y cif
,making a few observations before he moved t.l-.t, 7,,r
st.ir of his BilL it had been said that the 1;;;I L.•
tertered with free labour; but he was himself ar, 44.
vocate of free labour, and he could not tell l v:Lz•
tle children, 'Who had neither a ivi l nit a tosct
their own, could be. dialed free labourers. Tter
children were under either parents or muter:. v.:.0
oftourse directed them in their conduct. ile 1.4
hapirylciffind that the parents had petitinnud
bHuuse to_ take theihildrei under.their
Thi Bill embraced lush alarge.aad br*ficer.:
ject,,atut.included.the interests of so many poor-prN
ple, that the plan could net possibly be carrie..
effect without an Act.of Parliament. He
the House, in the eresiArrt instance, would al:cv.v

same course to be ilren That had been followed the
years ago. The Bill 'might undeigo a second ra.!:
ing, the blanks might* be. filled up, and plenty
tirrie,rni. ht be allowed, i 4 order that it should. ee
Impiiii- ciiieE the country, and no further procefj•
ings m 4. iake ?lace on it till-after the holidr--
(sear, hear.) He did not wish any man to be u...
by surprise, but he hoped the-House Would allow 7J
furthettime to be wasti& 'than. couldnot 14 arci.'.l
before' theZetermination of 'a measure of such •
Kt-tante.' -.The Bill of 1815 Fad` poposed that c:..::
. n uncler tip years shOnld not be admitted to u.t
.nufttteries. He tiad tpropased that nine 'yen
s_hbuTcl74'ole7tiirje, arid .Lhe .powerS of the Act v c-e
end when chilthun attained the i.ge.ofsixteer- :r
till that time-Thei 'could not be sankto be free age:z.
or. capable .Of judging for themselves. Will. tI,T!
#.itOrridnes befcireibetn, he -loped the House w....:1
understand the real intention, and Seer the Bil: zo

pass the second reading, that those who were
ted might be acquainted with its provki6ns.
time per day that the Bill allowed was elevt:..:7s
for labour, and an huur and a half for foo2. A:.

on that-pirt of the stibject,'he should rema-:.
was intended, if possible, to prevent a n.ts:".:s.r...e
which had recently occurred. He allude 3
melancholy accident of fourteen children :2(13

burnt during-the night. There hid been :(
rice of causing the children to work Whza, th:tl:
tens were in their beds--(hear, hear)--and
ashamed to own that-ite had himself been corcer-..1
where thatproceeding h_ad been suffered : su:
hoped the. AusesWoufd interfere, and prevent
the future.- Ityfit his wish to have no ni,t!:t 7.."<
at all in thie.;fictories. The Honourable Kircnt:
concluded brinoving, “ that the Biki.huuld tv*---;a
read a setentifebirje."
Izitd LABCPXLES did not rise to make a 7..;(`'
fessed-OpPositiOs to the motion of the Hone:::1
Baronet, because he had stated that the Bill nvi.:t
lie over, the blanks might be filled up, and
country have proper notice dal what *.ai
ward. in one part of the'•Dill he agreed
Honourable Baronet: in that-part which lin-,ited-t;e
ages of the children employed in the manni..ct:.--m.
It there was any abuse with regard to the lige-,.ltcr-
tainly called for the attention of the llou,d. is et•
was one thing which ought to be obserseell:c'
mer times, a great part of the manufitt7:-7.5 -J
been conducted upon streatiis.
introduction of steam had. removed mnrly r: th.e:l

r,:'x:

into remote parts of the country. But still A
were upon streams. 'Fite 13ill was calculited
A great superiority ancLatkaintAge to t)2ogefaTc-:
that were carried on by steam. They could, in

COllll work eleven. or twelve,
•
hatever nu—
er of hours they chose. But it was
se with those upon streams. There were many
se that could
rot u•ork except when the water
;ho
e (hear, hear,)--and if they were limited
i,e-eleenier7Prescribed by the Bill, they would be
shred. in fact. useless, which was, very strong
for the consideration of the House. The real.
rids
fur the Bill, it should be observed, did not
proceedings of 1816, but in a
from any of the
measure upon other evidence. But he would
that 'whatever evidence was brought up in the
Lets of persons from the country, when
that evi-
rse fell upon the characters of people not present,
is lord that they could nbt be heard in their own
, That method of taking evidence was a
, of underhand mode of proceeding—(hear, hear.)
by le, means alluded to any part of the conduct
ble Baronet: he was speaking of the
-sea
the 11,•;rizsuo raf
the production of that kind of evi-
jE vas such evidence as he was not at all pan-
ty lle should not oppose the Bill in its present
as the Honourable Baronet had professed his
of giving ample time for consideration.
lir. PHILLIPS said, that some objections which
beenerade to the bill, had been stated not with a
iew of throwing it out, but with a wish to have
eve obviated, The Honourable Baronet had been
(„cfnesi in manufactories,. and
had himself a sotsl l
et the business, and therefore his interest was still
crat . with manufactories. There was a bill for
es
matingthe law concerning apprentices, which,
..eeever, still left an advantage on the part of some
lisctorics, there being some which took apprentices
sel some which did not take them. It might be of
impietance to the House to know.; the nature of some
ei the examinations that had taken place. In
roomof the examination of witnesses, he had been
sired to ask a person if he had caused to be inserted
.1 the newspapers a statement respecting the reduc-
tion of the supply of hands. The person had de-
nied having caused any such document to be in-
serted, though he had afterwards been obliged pub-
licly to confess it. The Honourable Member then
proceeded
to prove, that in .._Manchester, and other
Darts, the number of persons in infirmaries, &c.
,con-
ceded with manufactories, was comparatively very
snail; and that when other portions of the popula-
ion were distressed, the persons belonging to facto-
ter had materially contributed to their relief. the
Honourable Member then proceeded to read a letter
f-om Dr. Henri, who expressed an opinion that spin-
sing factories, if well re-plated, .were not more un-
hulthy than other factories; and as to contagious.
fevers, it was not .consistent with his experience, that,
more persons came into the infirmary from the cotton
nanufactenes than from other places. The subject
of this bill, said the Honourable Member, was very
important, and he hoped that the House would pay
great attention to it. If they interfered with the re-
gulation cotton factories, and limited the hours
of working in them, would not men front other
p'.. es come forward, and say, " We worklonger and
re les:" As to limiting ,the age to nine years, he
observed, that in, all the well-conducted factories,
so children of a younger age were employed.-
-But the subject of this Bill was worthy of the more
serious consideration of the House, when they viewed
i: as tending to affect, in a very alarming degree, the.
le:leas of our foreign trade. It was fell known,
fen great exports were made hi this branch of our
elmeuic industry, but he felt persuaded that they
could be very considerably eliminisise4,if PArliarnent
should think proper to interfere avid/ the.retsdafilon
cf our factories in. the way ivlalclrthe I, ono
Anitlior of the Bill proposed, At present,:the hews'.
cf working in such factories- an the Continent were
fully as long and as unlimited as in Englapdt and
cer rivals abroad had been.heard to Fay,
.that.if our ,
Legislature would only limit the hours of working,or
tax the Exports, it would do them a great deal more
service than any regulations that could •be adopted
by their own Governments—(hear, hear.)—This mea-
riri had produced a great sensation in Lancashire,
and he warned the House to consider the consequences
which might arise from entertaining it. Would not
the spirit of Luddism extend throughout tht whole,
country? That spirit was less active now, but was
not extinct. For his own part, after all_the conside-
ration which he had been able to.bestow on the sub-.
?et, he was decidedly. of opinion, that a proposal
more injurious in all its consequences, Vieth domestic
and foreign, could not possibly have been made.—
Formerly, a very considerable portion, of the work
in'these factories was conducted by children alone ;
but the case was now altered, and persons of a supe-
rior age were employed. The number of' children
engaged in working had been much reduced, and,
with respect to night-work, Mr. Arkyvright, whose
authority could not fail to have great weight with
fee House, had declared that night-work was very
rarely practised. For these reasons, he felt it his
dee, to object to the second reading of this Bill.
Mr. DAVENPORT said, that he was a Member
of the Committee who were appointed to inquire into
t:-is subject in the year 1816 ; and lie thought that
the Legislature ought not to interfere without the
most serious deliberation. He did not wish to give
aey opinion on the question in its present state ; but
he trusted that the House would not proceed with
any indiscreet haste. If the Bill was founded on the
Report of the Committee, it might be desirable to
.:,.r the opinions of the different Members who had
elended most closely to the investigation of this
reisser ; if it was founded on the Petition which had
ttee recently presented, it might be proper to in-
wre the truth of its allegations, with a view to
a•-e-:ain whether the Petitioners might not have
7.,ked tor the adoption of a measure which would be
rt. injurious than beneficial to their interests.
r. PEEL thought that the best course of pro-
ceelieg would be to suffer the Bill to be read a second
:sire. and then go to a Committee for the purpose of
leseing the blanks•filled up, and to leave the further
eetession till after the recess. This would obviat e
chiection made by his Honourable Friend who
jue sat down as to any indiscreet haste. The
ciect of the regulation must depend on the minimum
age of the children that were employed in
ttesi factories, and the number of hours during
u..lth they were to work. In his view of the subject,
it was very difficult to pronounce an opinion on the
zerits of the iiill, till the blanks had been filled up.
the l'^eel, however, that no opposition would be
the second reading, upon the promise of the
tr ii. Dill, that, after the blanks were filipd

up, no further proceedings should be taken at pre-
sent. • As to the propriety of entertaining the subject,
he must observe, that not only on account of the age.
of the persons employed, but also on account of the
nature of the cotton factories, this could hardly be
called free labour. A child must' either withhold
himself from all employment, or submit to the task
of working during a certain
,number of hours.—
It was not for the House to determine what the
number of well-conducted mills was, but to legis-.
late in such a manner as should regulate the course
of proceeding in all such concerns. The Noble
Lord (Lascelles) had said, that he did not think
this Bill proceeded on the Report of the Committee,
but on some evidence that had been subsequently ob-
tained from the country. If this were the fact, there
was no difficulty in stating what the nature of that
evidence was. He (Mr. Peel) then held it in his hand,
and any Gentleman might, if he wished, have a copy
of it. It proceeded from persons-of great respectabi-
lity and experience, and who were capable of form-
ing an accurate judgment of the consequences of
labour on the health and constitution of children.—
The firs of them, Mr. Simmons, a surgeon of great
eminence in London, stated positively, that personal
observation had convinced him that the hours of em-
ployment in the Cotton Factories were too long for
human beings of so tender an age to endure. Two
other Gentlemen, the Rector of St. John's, Manches-
ter, and an Inspector of the Sunday Schools, were
decidedly of opinion that the long hours of labour
and confinement were extremely prejudicial to the
health of such persons. The Honourable Member
(Mr. Phillips) did not seem to attach much impor-
tance to the Petition which had been presented from
the parents of these children ; but he (Mr. Peel) could
not help thinking that this arose from the circum-
stance of the Hon. Member not being influenced by
the same feelings which the Petitioners entertained.
They had expressed a wish that the Legislature should
interfere for the protection of their children ; and
stated that they were obliged to allow them to work
for an unlimited time, or submit to the misfortune
of not having them employed at all. It was obvious,
then, that the parents themselves had no discretion
or contronl in the business, and that the Legislature
*alone could regulate the management of these Fac•
tories—(Hear, hear).
Mr. PHILLIPS and Mr. PEEL mutually explained.
Mr. FINLAY said, he had no objection to some
of the regulations in the Bill, except this, that they
would be of no use, and remain a dead letter. He
also complained that the Mover was now proceed-
ing, net on the evidence which had been adduced be-
fore the Committee, but on private information,'
which persons on the other side of the question had
no opportunity of rebutting. If any regulation was'
adopted by Parliament on this subject, it would be
obeyed by those ManufaCturers whose establishments
were at present well conducted,-and neglected by the
others—so that it would punish the good for the be-
nefit of the bad. He thought there was a risk in in•
terfering with the Cotton Manufactory, which was so
important to the national prosperity. All other
countries had the same advantages as we, and
if by any injudicious regulations impediments were
thrown in the way of the exertions of individuals, our
'superiority would soon be at an end. He had no
doubt that the children in Cotton Factories were bet-
ter clothed, better' fed, and altogether iencire cohifor-'
table than those who were employed in other species
of work, or than those who were not employed at all.
He had been obliged, as a Member of the Commit-
tee, to visit tyre jail, and he had there seen children
of ten or twelve years of age under sentence of death.
If they had been employed in factories, they would
not •have been under temptation to commit such
crimes, He admitted that children should 'not be
employed under nine years old ; neither was it forshe
advantage, of the manufacturers so to employ them;
neither did he believe any so young were employed.
As to the long hours, the time of working was longer
in the linen manufactories, and in the woollen facto--
ries, it was stated in evidence, that they worked four-
teen hours, though this had been denied. He hoped
the Hon. Mover would proceed with great caution.
Mr. cm:mg* - said he-approved of the object of
the Bill ; but he would- reserve his opinions,- as he
should afterwards have an opportunity of giving
them more fully in the Committee.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT observed, that the em-. 1
ployment of persons of a tender age for an unlimited
number of hours, must be very prejudicial to their
health and their happiness. It had been found that
those employed in night-work were more healthy
in appearance than those employed in the day-time ;
because the former were indulged with certain inter-
vals of recreation ; while the long, severe, and unin-
terrupted application of the latter operated in the
most prejudicial manner against their general health
and happiness.
The Bill was then committed, the Report was
brought up, and ordered for further consideration on
that day six weeks.

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