Star.
London, England, 1816-03-02 00:00:00

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• HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 1.
,Mr. Ateeez frees the Treasury, presented at the Bar, an
.4oeteunt of do idalksOblby France so this Country. agreeably
to the Treaty of Farb; and also bather .dooteeneUts relative to
the claims on the score et French Prisoners.
The Mak antbefuger Deities, and the Biers Millions Beebe.
leer BMW tall., weer rend the third dine and passed.
Tba 011,11-Rooliesits INN *eat through a Committee, and
Was reportodlnilbout any sinendotert.
•_ •
_I, ilto)itet, PItoPEATT TAX.
Lord IaNG presented A Petition from the inhabi-
tants of the Cprdwaintis' Ward against the continu-
ance, under any modification!, of the Income or Pro-
perty Tat, which ' conceived to be not only bar.
_ _ .

the repaymint of the money, the bad made
himself liable to be sued in his own Courts. It
turned out afterwards, however, that Austria was
set able to fulfil her engagements $ she had been un•
'animate. After the blade of Austerlitz she had
..tamed many losses; she had lost Italy and the
Tyrol, ands it might seem unseasonable at such a
juncture to be rigorous in demanding the payment of
her debts. Bat if the loss of her possessions was a
reason for withholding *fair claim, the recovery of
them, and with additions, was surely an equal sea-
son for urging that claim. The debt due to this

they ,
deviate cud intolerable, but a palpable violation of
• a solensn pledge which hadbeen given to the Public
under the suction of Parliament.
• Lord FORTESCUE presented a 'Petition from
the Leindowners and others, of Tiverton, in the
county of Devon, against the Property Tax. The
complaints, his Lordship observed, wire urged with
the utmost decorum, and with ',profound respect to
the dignity of that House and if the Legislature;
but they urged, that while the tax called the Pro.
perry Tax professed to elect 10 per cent. it operated,
to effect, in double that ratio upon Landed Property;
and they added, that not only Agriculture in all its,
branches, but Commerce and Manufactures, and
even the Revenue itself, were injured ultimately by'
- • the measure. The Petitioners complained of tbe,
great inequality with which the taxes bore upon
them, and of the manner in which they were levied,
particularly the Malt Tax and the Poors-tates, which
were insufferably partial and grievous.
The Petition having been read by the Clerk, was
ordered to lie on the Table.
MIMS IN Till CIVIL LIST.
Before the Order of the Day should be entered
into, the Marquis of LANSDOWNE was desirous
to call the attention of their Lordships to a subject
not only important in itself, but as immediately con-
nected with the dignity of chat House, inasmuch u
the proceeding to which be should advert, was in
defiance of a distinct order which their Lordships
bad made for their own information. It had been
ordered, as their Lordships could not fail to reed-
' Ica, that no augmentation on the Civil List should
lake place without due notice, and a prr.per applies.
Con to Parliament; but he thought the shorter way
Sbr his purpose would be, to des.- the Clerk to mid
the first clause of the 55th of the li;tig. The clause
being read, which required the notice of twenty days
before any addition should be made to the Civil List,
the Noble Marquis telt it Incumbent, on him to c4l

country was riot lea than between thirteen add four-
teen millions sterling ; end while Austria, sed
of Naples, was levying heavy exactions on trip:osple
there, was she to be exempted frum the fair and le-
gitimate demands of England What, said the
Noble Lord, had been the conduct of all the other
Powers of Europe ? They had all distinctly stated
and scrupulously required the payment of what they
conceived or stated to be due to theme and they had
'been paid or remunerated in the general distribution
of property, all but this country. Russia-had het
indemnities ; Austria bad her indemnities, howsoever
obtained or supplied, in Poland or elsewhere. Such
a -tenaciousness of individual rights among the M.
:asters of the several States, surely could nut have
escaped the notice of the British Negotiators and
yet it had so happened, that while all the other
Powers of the fraternity had .been amply or super-
fluously reimbursed, this country alone was left to
sit down with the loss of no less than twenty-eight
millions sterling, a sum far exceeding all that France
had been called upon to furnish, far beyond the 700
millions of francs which was deemed a proper com-
pensation to the rest of united Europe for all the
miseries and devastations ascribed to the fury and ra-
pacity of France during twenty-five years of violence
and plunder. Such a gratuitous surrender by Mi-
nisters of the just claims of this country, was a part
of the new system on which it seemed to be their de-
sire and their pride to act. Such conduct might,
by some persons, be termed liberality, but he should
rather call it arrant blundering, if, indeed, it did not
deserve a much harsher name. The Noble Lord
concluded by moving—a That an account be laid
before the House of the measures, if any, which Mi-
nisters had taken in order to obtain payment from
Austria, and other Powers. of the money advanced
to them from time to time, by this esontry in the
way of Loan."
The Earl of LIVERPOOL did net think it would

the attention of the Howe to what be could not inn
'muskier a gross departure from their duty on the
part of Ministers, and as grow a disregard to, the
orders of their Lordships, in that excess which had
taken place in the Civil List, as exhibited in the do-
cuments an the Table.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL admitted that some

be nec,.ssary to take up much of their 'Lordships'
time on a question the main substance of which, and
the main facts connected with it, must be fully in
the recollection of the House. The Austrian loan
took place in 1799. At that time there was no ap-
prehension in the mind of any man that the terms of
it would not be strictly and fully mewed. He need

irregularity bad occurred in the instance alluded to.
By sow inadvervnce the circumstance eettainly had
tot come r.gularly before Parliament ?n the pre.
scribed time, but he should in at short time make such
I statement of the transaction as be made no doubt
*mud satisfy the House.
The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was ready to
admit that Pie Noble Lord could readily armpit him-
self of any intentional disregard to the orders of the
}louse ; but when an order was expressly mode for
the informazion of their Lorthhips, it certainly ap-
peared erraordidary that taie watt- have: ben
disr. garLled by the Noble Eatl liirns;..h. lle should
have expected from that Noble Lord a eift.:reat and
More rrsfectful couese of proceeding. He should
have eel ected that the Noble Earl would come down
to the 1-14,US.t with a Message from the Crown, ac-
counting tor a proceeding so extraordinary, at a time
when calls upon the people were meditated by Mini-
eters grievous and vexatious beyond ex:itnple. He
should have expected, that while returns of the
most rigid nature were to be exacted from the people,
the Ministers at least would have shewn some con-
siderate regard to the decent observance of State
economy. 1
- Lori HOLLAND had heard the observations of I':
bis Noble Friend, as will as the reply of the Noble
Earl opposite, with duo attention; but he could not.
accept of the slender terms is inadvertency" anti
"irregularity," as an atonement for actual disobe-
dience if a distinct and )sitive order of the House;

not advert to the events which succeeded. In two
Fears afterwards lvatilities commenced between
rance and Austria. Was that, the Noble Lord in-
quired, a proper time for urging a claim by, this coon.
try against Austria ? He would ask sny man, whe-
ther any blame could then be attached to a Noble
Lord who was in Administration. for the different
course of policy which he pursued ? In 18U2 again
there occurred an opportunity for creating, by means
ut Austria, a hopeful diversion against France, and
was there at that time one word said by Noble Lords
on the other side of the House to oppose such an en.
deavour ? But after the efforts which Austria had
sub.equently made, after the capture of Vienna, he
would ask. whetht r it would have been wise, equi-
table, or politic, to embarrass Austria with a pecu-
niary claim ? So far was Parliament at that time
from entertaining any such sentiment, that a Right
Honourable Geutleman at present 'no more (Mr.
Fox) recommended an additional aid of half a mil-
lion to that Power. A similar feeling prevailed at a
subsequent period, when, in 1809, the Noble Marquis
opposite (Lansdowne) was in office. In 1813 their
Ladships all knew, that after the expulsion of Bona-
parte lcum Russia every man was doubtful and
Anxious to discover what part Austria would take.—
To be here, it matters were suited to such a purpose,
he would take the course which a Noble Lord(Gren-,
vile) had taken in 1798, and bergained for a doe
and just division of expenses with our Ally :—but
when the fate of Eus hung a thread, be

and he trusted that the Noble Earl would name a
d.Ly when he should be prepared to vindicate his con-
duct to the satisfaction of the House.
The Earl of LIVERPOOL was very willing to
satisfy either of the Noble Lords and the. House, but
could

mope ig upon .
would not, nor would the Noble Lord to whom he
had adverted, make any such cold and calculating
proposition. But If things appeared as the Noble
Lord seemed to represent them, why had he not
brought forward his inquiry to the last Session ? It

not then name a precise day for the purpose.
Lord HOLLAND, as he considered the act k-
eel' to be illegal, could not but reprd'all delay in
the explanation of it as aitgal also. With what
propriety, or with what regirit to decorum or com-
mon decency could Ministers commit an act like,
that brought forward by his Noble Friend, . while
they were meditating and taking all means of car-'
Tying into effect, at a moment of profound peace,
the continuance or renewal of a tax, grinding, op•
pressive, and odious, beyond all precedent, and
which could never have been tolerated or submit-
ted to, but on the acknowledged. plea of necessity
from the alarming and pressing exigencies of an nu-
precedented warfare.
alarms RIMIVIIIISIaiTh.
The Order of the Day being read for entering on
the subject of Lord King's motion, that Noble Lord
rose. He should net take up much of their Lord-
ships' time upon a subject, the main whereof

was impossible for Ministers, while the liberties of
Europe were depending on the most vigorous and
prompt exertions of all the means within their power,
to enter into any such stipulations as the Noble Lord
seemed to suggest. In the whole progress of the
war, there was no Power which had sheen more
alacrity, zeal and efficiency than Austria had, and
even when subdued, she had arisen again with ad.
mirable and heroic promptitude. Much had been
sat,' about privations and sufferings. It. was true
this country had suffered much ; but what were our
sufferings compared with those of Austria, her capi.
tal twice taken, and her fairest provinces wrested
from /Its'? In the division and allotment of what had
been levied on France, Russia, tisough needy herself,
had duly considered the superior and snore pressing
claims of Austria; and all mankind must concur in
the opinion, that it would have been improper and
unfair to press on Austria. Indeed, there would
hardly be found a man who at that time would have

points _
were sufficiently in the recollection of them all ; he
meant the sums which from time to time had been
advanced by this country to her Allies, in the Wu)
of loans, but which had never been paid. Those
. sums, advanced br the zeal sod generosity of this
country, under circumstances of great national dif-
Seek/ and general distress, had reached to a very
onions and enormous extent ; and large balances, if
not the principal amount, remained yet undischarged.
To the motion which he should make, he hoped Mi-
nisters would feel no obstinate objection. It was his
wish to bring before the }louse, in one compact view,
she whole of the subject of the debts and arrears due
9 by Austria and .Itussia to this country. As to A us.
ma, he well remembered, as no doubt their Lord.l
ships generally would, that when the measure was,
first proposed, of a loan to that Power, great stress
was laid on We responsibility aztd mum, attactie4

been bold enough to urge such a proceeding. As to
Russia, the agreement with that Power was before
the house ; and he believed that some credit would
be thought due to his Majesty's Government for that
[arrangement. He should particularly mention Hot.
land, and the stipulation by which the security of
chat country bad been provided for. After the
French armies had evacuated Russia—had beta
driven beyond the Vistula and the Oder, would It
!sieve been wise or politic to stated on negotiation
There were, indeed, some persons, many be might
sty, some of them in the Russian armies, who would
'have recommended negotiation s but the Sovereign
of that country chose to advance with a prompt and
magnanimous spirit at the head of the Confederates,
until the deliverance of Europe was made decisive
and complete. Such promptitude, and such a
cougar watt requisite, not only for the welfare end

• . .
.• • t
. .
---6-----.--6---•- --- 'lle .to it: sada, all Mee smelt 10 'give craft to the eil Europe at large, but even for France her-1
, .PARLIAMENTART PIIOCEB,DING.t. statement, it was thought by some quite impereasoo‘ se . Let Noble Lords look back collie state of
to have it superinduced in the ereitinento that, for Holland and of Antwerp, which would evince not
i - Emperor only the - but the - which actu

..ty _ policy, _ , strict justice
the Allies,
Lord HOLLAND could not help remarking,
that the Noble Earl had mistaken or passed by the
meaning of his Noble Friend. He charged his Noble
Friend with abstaining too long, and then only urg-
ing his objections when the danger was over. His
I Noble Friend had not made his motion for the ar-
.raignment or crimination of Ministers, but barely for
an account of what steps had been taken- by his Ma-
jesty's Government for the payment of all the debts
which were due to the country. The Noble Earl,
indeed, had 'awed into a long detail of what M►ni-

eat J or
stars had done and what they h.td not done. He
had justified not only the present Administration but
all preceding Adtninistrations, but yet had given no
answer to his Noble Friend. He agreed with the
Noble Earl, that it might have been wigraciotri and
ungenerous to solicit payment at a moment when
our Allies were embarrassed and distressed. But
when the contest was•over, and the danger and the
distresses no longer existing, it was time for thi.
country to look for her rightful claims. Reference
had been made-to the conduct of Ms. Pitt and other
Ministers, but nothing WAS applicable to the present
state of things as set forth by his Noble Friend. In
the former instance our Ally was distressed, and it
was necessary for the common cause to leave her un-
embarrassed by our demands. But because forbear-
ance in a state of embarrassment was just and pru-
dent, was the same forbearance to be used at a time
of ease and prosperity ? There were two or three
reasons which might prevent the urging a claim for
debt—one was the inability of the debtor lo pay—
another, the condition of the creditor, who might not
want the money. Neither of those cases applied at
present. Austria was in unusual prosperity, with
accession as well as restoration of territory, and with
her restorations and accessions rendered more vain-
able than they had been before. But Ministers were
extremely anxious to restore every thing with increas•
ed value to crowned and legitimate Sovereigns, and
to leave all other States and all other conditions of
people to dwell in their necessity. Venice and Genoa
were abandoned to a foreign yoke, and this country
was to be told she was not to expect the payment of
the debts that were due to her, notwithstanding the
grievous and alarming distresses of the country, which
had been so well set forth in several Petitions on the
table, and particularly that which had been presented
'by his Noble Friend (Lord Fortescue). The Noble
Lord continued to express his strong disapprobation
tutshine.

at the conduct of Guvernment in relinqk ing the
claims they had on foreign Powers for the payment
of debts. Supposing some unforeseen contest should
agaih occur. we might be compelled by hard neces-
sity to break our faith with British creditors. Was
it to be understood that we should then give to fo-
reir creditors the advantages we denied to our own

ign
—that we were to preserve every kind of faith to-
wards foreigners, and were not to call on them to
preserve any fai►.h towards us ? Why then should
we not demand payment of the debt due by Austria
to us ? We were also about to give up a debt of
about seven millions due to us by France, while we
stipulated that France should pay the sums. owing ,
to private individuals in this country. It was, in
fact, monstrous to suppose thlt we should net insist
on the payment of the large sums in qnv.ition.
Earl BATHURST conceived that it would have
been most impolitic in us to have insivted on Austria
to pay us money at the time we were endeavouring
to bring her into a confederacy that was so essential
to the safety of Europe. If we bad done so,
Au .tria would have been less anxious to coalesce
with us.
Ths Marquis of LANSDOWNE contended that
we ought at this moment to insist on the payment of
the vast sum which we lent to Austria eighteen years
ago. That Government had, by our aid, recovered
her lost provinces, and made great aggrandizement
of territory ; and there were just grounds for demand-
ing the payment of the loan, at least we ought to in-
sist on the payment of the interest. II it was right
to give up our claims on Austria, it would be equally
so to give up our securities which were deposited in
the chests of the Bank of Engl.ind. He fully agreed
with his Noble Friend, that it was a most extraerdi-
nary circumstance on-our part to have relinquished
our claikl on the French Gorr

Jernment. on the prin-
ciple of their making *good to British subjects the
money which they held in the French Funds. It was
not only an injurious, but it was a most impolitic
measure, because it would operate as a perpetual en-
louragement to British subjects to put their money in

foreign funds, and thus deprive oiir own country of
the advantages that must arse from persons keeping
their capitals within this country.
The motion was then pat and negatived without, a.
dieision.—Adjourned to toltiuday.
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Mr. AIitBUTHNOT presented an Account of itt Burns of
Meaty due to this country, by France, is consequence of the
That)! eanelndad at Paris In December ue
last, together with the
Inward sums already paid by the French Government.
Also an Account of Money, Arms, Ammunirion, and Warlihe
Boras, oil every description, famished by the British Government
toll*n, from the year len to the present period.
AW an Account at the Number of kerma, In Ihitlsb Pay,
weft in diSerent Parts of Europe. The Papers were laid on
the table, and ordered to be printed.
Mr. laysno. from the Commissiociers of the Customs, pre.
,s anted an Account of the Sheep.' and Lambs' Wool tmported
gate Orem Blume from Foreign Countries, during the year endiug
of January Juts—Lrd on the table.
Mr. Josuson, from the office of the Chief Secretary for Ire.
land, presented the Fourth Re eport of the Commissioners fur
AudiUng Iland.

Publk Aceoutsts in . _ Also a return ei the Reg►
mans ess the Iriab-Bstablishmea. ' • and as account of the number
of troops maintained to lreland,ln the years 1701 ao(11.700.
Laid on the table.
Mr. lots, from the Office of the Inspector of Cora Returns,
presented an Account of the Average Prices of Barley, Oats, and
Rye, from January 1819 to musk—Laid od the table.
Sir C. BURRELL obtained leave to bring in a Bill for ren-
dering more seam the Harbour of Shoreham, in the County of
Kent.
Mr. Sedate ONSLOW brought to a Bill fur the more effec-
tually securing the Liberty of the Subjece.—Read the Ant, and
ordered to be reed the second time en Monday, the Bth of April,
and to be printed.
On the motion of Mr. HUSKISSON, the Crown Rents Bill
was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday
senoight.
Mr. GOULBURN presented Copies or Extracts of all such
Laws as have been enacted in the Cokusies,reiatitre cache Import-
cation of Sinai—Laid on the table.
The Hon. ()enflame elm presented an Account of all Offices,
Civil or Military, the appointment to which is vested in the
Crews/ in the Wanda of Berbices Tobago, St, Lucia; the Isle of/