Star.
London, England, 1810-02-17 00:00:00

Lord Wellesley I -taiStd IkaiNoVect,
he wished them. joy of their aiatysitlion (ts atria).
the House looked back to the military history oi,_
country, there could not be a single instanfoustd-in
which a pension so great had been grantetjundei
similar circumstance, wltich, to say the least of it
was undeserving any distinguished mark of public
gratitude. He would ask on what real ground was
such a reward founded ? Lord Wellington had re-
ceived the Thanks of the House, which he (General
Calcraft) had not opposed, but the Thanks of the
House, and Peerages and Pensions were two very
different things. It was too improvident to squan-
der away the public money in the beginning of a
career of military fame. What would Lord Wel-
lington have received if he was closing a life of dis-
tingui .hed services ?—He could expect no more than
was now proposed at his very outset in life. The
Right Hon. Gentleman seemed confident that the
House would agree to his Motion, that was however
a little equivocal. (Mar, hear.) A few weeks would
open the eyes of the, country to the real extent of
Lord Wellington's services. Was there a military
man in the country who would undertake the defence
of Portugal with 50,000 men ? He did not think
there was one who would be so fool-hardy. If the
French really went in earnest about recovering pos-
session of Portugal, Lord Wellington and his army
must and ought to be in this country. The Honour-
able Gentleman then proceeded to make very pointed
comments on the battle of the Douro, and the conduct
of Lord Wellington towards the Spaniards, from
which he contended, taking a view of the whole career
of that officer, that he was not entitled to the honours
already bestowed on him.
Mr. F. ROBINSON declared, that fresh as must
have been in the recollection of the Hon. Gentleman
the brilliant speech of his Right Hon. Friend, and the
statements of two gallant Officers on a recent occa-
sion, he was surprised at his opposition to the pre-
sent motion. The Hon. Gentleman had advanced
arguments already refuted, and had reiterated state-
ments already denied. Without entering into any
invidious comparisons, he was anxious that Lord
Wellington should be rewarded, on the ground of his
own intrinsic merits. He here entered into a detail
of Lord Wellington's military movements, which he
contended deserved the highest approbation and re-
ward. The Hon. Gentleman opposite had asserted
that the peerage had been granted to Lord Welling-
ton, to gratify a Noble Marquis for a particular pur-
pose. Some allusion was, he presumed, here meant
to the secession from office of a Noble Friend of his
(Lord Castlereagh), but he could assure that Hon.
Gentleman that there was no man in the country who
thought more highly of Lord Wellington's deserts
than his Noble Friend, or who was more anxious that
those deserts should be duly rewarded. The name of
Lord Wellington was the admiration of his cotempo-
raries, and, to use the words of Lord Hutchinson,
when speaking of the gallant and revered Ahercrom •
bie, would be, g 4 embalmed in the recollection sf a
grateful posterity."
Mr. LITTLETON could by no means agree with
his Hon. Friend (Mr. Calcraft) in his opinion, that
Lord Wellington was not already an excellent officer.
He did not believe there was a voice in the English
or French atilty which would not pronounce him such.
Nor did he conceive that the battle of Talavera was
deficient in the characteristics of victory. Of this,
the fact, that the British army was not pursued by the
enemy, was a sufficient proof, for such had always
been the practice of the French. Still, however,
young as the Noble Lord was, established as was his
military character, and open to him as would hence-
forward be all situations of honour and profit, he felt
it his duty to vote against the proposed grant of the
public money as unnecessary. In doing this he wished
to guard against the imputation of being influenced
by party motives ; although with reference to some
recent observations on that subject, he was willing to
confess himself so far a party man, that he would
rather concur with others to obtain a desirable object,
than presumptuously hope to succeed alone and un-
supported.
General CRAWFORD took a general view of the
whole of Lord Wellington's military conduct, on which
he pronounced a warrn panegyric. He did not know any
thing of the Noble Lord's circumstances ; but, from
the liberality of his disposition, it was probable he was
not rich. Indeed he had heard ,that lie had many
debts to discharge. For his part, he never in his lite
concurred more heartily in any vote than in the present.
Mr. BAR HAM conceiving that such a motion as
that proposed should be agreed to only when the
country had derived, or was likely to derive-any ex-
traordinary benefits from the action on which it was
founded, and conceiving that the battle of Talavera
was not an action of that description, felt it his duty
to oppose the motion.
Mr. HERBERT declared that if the blood shed in
the battle of Talavera had only rescued us from the
imputation cast upon us by Bonaparte in the Moniteur,
that we were ready to stir up the Continent to war, ,
but not to fight ourselves, he should have thought it
well spilled. As to a retreat after a battle proving
that the battle was no victory, the famous victories ofi
Agincourt and Dettingen, both followed by retreats,
,sufficiently evinced the fallacy of such an assertion.
General LOFTUS expressed the high sense which
he entertained of the extraordinary merit of LordWel-
ington in the battle of Talavera. The House, after
thanking that Noble Lord for his conduct, would
surely not withhold from him the reward which was
proposed.
Lord MILTON observed, that his Majesty's Mi-
nisters having advised his Majesty to grant a Peerage
to the Noble Lord, thought they had nothing to do
but to come down to the House of Commons and de-
mand a pension for him. In former times, greater
services had been performed for less rewards but
latterly it had been the custom to heap honours upon
honours, not so much perhaps to shed lustre on the
individual upon whom they were conferred, as on the
Government by whom they were bestowed. Not
seeing any thing in the conduct of Lord Wellington
which deserved such a reward as that now proposed,
he enured his protest against the motion.
Sir F. BURDETT, in adverting to some observa-
tions made by an Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Lyttleton)
upon party, wished to be understood by no means
unfriendly to that connection of public men associated
together upon public growls, upon an acknowledged
public principlt. To ao aril connection could he be
hostile, although be should ever deprecate the exis-
Ae d a Party ill ilk rase with no other object

. repot gal; ..ntry, . necessary , great _
wanton sacrifice of Bridal blood ? (Hear.) Mention sign ate a true military genius. The Honourable
had been made of the battles of Agincourt and Member concluded with observing, that the whole
Dettingen. Of the latter he had never heard history of the battle of Talavera, however exaggerated
much said in the way of triumph or congratula- by the gentlemen on the other side, or extolled by the
tion ; but, at all events, he believed, that no pen- poet, who had lately chosen it for his theme, might
sions were conferred upon the officers who there corn. be fully expressedin one sentence, namely, that Lord
mended. With respect to Agincourt, there was no Wellington got into a scrape, and that the army got
similarity in its circumstances with those of Talavera. him out of it.
The former was fought by an army, which, after a , Mr. FULLER retorted upon the last speaker.
successful excursion into France, was, in the en- the reflection thrown out against his understanding,
deavour amidst various privations to effect its retreat, by remarking that the Hon. Gentleman shewed great
forced without any possibility of choice, to contend imbecility as the leader of a party, in making a ques.
with much superior numbers. It did so contend suction upon a motion of this nature.
cessfully, and took off great booty, numerous pri- , Mr. WELLESLEY POLE complimented the
ushers, and immortal glory.—( Hear, hear.) An Ho- 1 Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, on the manly
nourable General had stated that Lord Wellington : manner in which he had done justice to the merits
stood in need of this pecuniary remuneration ; and, of Lord Wellington. He admitted the question be-
es he understood him, that he had from a renerous fore the House was distinct from any tither ; but he
disposition, been involved in great debts. Who then would appeal to the House, if the pension ought to be
was to pay them ? Were they to .be discharged out granted, while he acknowledged it would be impro-
', of the exhausted pockets of a burthened people ? Had per to make such a grant, if it were not wanted. Lord
the nation no debts of its own to discharge ? It nn- Wellington had no expectations of one. The Hon.
fortunitely was loaded with debts, in which it was Genticman had spoken as if he (Lord Welling-
involved by no prodigality of its own. It did not ton) had had opportunities of amassing a large for.
become him to analyze the military conduct of that tune. He would give the House some idea of his
battle ; but it was evident to every man that the circumstances in his own words.— [Here he produced
whole object of the campaign had failed. It was true a letter from Lord Wellington, as lollows] :
that from the manner in which the gallant army : " i was certain this morning, while writing to you, that I had
fought, there was no disgrace attendant upon that forgot something. That which 1 wished to communicate to yon
' failure. But even were it the most brilliant and de- was the state of my affairs. When I returned from India I had
chive victory, replete with every consequent advan- .
t,Cant42;0,r2£543,00,000 :10n;thsCetir‘001a0hraI
trteacewivterd. prize niofrnoeym attt.
eSs•criontratpoa-f
tage, he would not vote a single sixpence from the Directors for my services ; and .€oooo in Government arrears, as
pockets of the people to be given as remuneration.— . Commander in Seringapatam. I have now about £:40,000 re-
If Lord Vsrellington was to be remunerated, why not : Inailling, half of which, including her own Xistiat), is settled on
apply for that purpose to the patronage of the Crown? ILady Wellington:.
(Hear, hear !)—Whenever sinecures were abused, ! Mr. WILBERFORCE thought that as Lord
1 the supporters of that system answered, that their i Wellington had been thought worthy their thanks,
I suppression would dry up the fountain of reward ; they ought to.grant the pension, that it might not be
destroy every incentive to exertion, and every stimu- said they were prodigal of thanks, bet parsimonious
1 Ins to patriotic devotion. Here then, according to ; with respect to money. He then paid a high tribute
their own statement, was an opportunity for their due •of applause to the genius and talents of Lord Wel-
application. Why not remunerate Lord Wellington lington. Had he gone into any other line of life, the
from such a fund ? The Crown had the opportunity ' same talents, the same exertions would have pitted
in the recent vacancy of the Government of Ports- his family in more affluent circumstances. Accord-
mouth ; and why not make use of it to reward Lord ing to all accounts that he had seen, there was not a
Wellington ? There, probably, remained another more perfect soldier living than Lord Wellington.—
opportunity, to which it,was impossible with delicacy • He shared the fatigue as well as the danger with his
to allude strongly, in which Government had the • men. He was attentive to their .wants, and anxious
power of remunerating, without exacting from an ex- to increase their comforts. His conduct was altoge-
hausted people, the n:erits of that officer (alluding ther meritorious as an officer, and he thought what-
to the Tellership of the Exchequer.) With patronage ever their opinion might be of the late campaign,
sufficient to reward all t'ie merit th tt all the ()entries they ought not to be niggards in requiting LordWel-
in Europe could produce, in the power of the Crowe, lington.
he would never consent to augment, by the addition Mr. H. SMITH thought improper comparisons
of a single sixpence, the already galling and oppres- had been made between Naval and Military Corn-
sive burdens of the people. , menders. He regretted that no one in that House
Mr. FULLER deprecated the refusal to a gallant I had donejustice to that meritorious officer, General
and a great man of such a paltry dirty pension as R. Mackenzie, who died in the battle of, Talavera,
e2OOO per annum. Certain Gentlemen talked of the , and expressed an intention of shortly bringing the
Douro as they would of Drury'-lane or Billingsgate— i subject before the House.
(Order, *der.) Aye, " Order, order!" but when 1 Mr. WINDHAM spike.
men speak one way, and vote another, neither party, Mr. CANNING conceived that the question for
should employ them. Give him the man who would , the decisitifi.' of the House was not w!lether honours
do 'something for the country, in preference to those I were in malty cases justly bestowed, but whether the
who, like trunk-makers, were all noise and no work. ! Noble Lord who was the subject of the present dis-
( Laughing.) * I cussion had arrived at that degree of estimation in
Lord ARCHIBALD HAMILTON, in opposing which it became the House to acknowledge his merits •
the present proposition, did not denymerit to the dis- with some substantial mark of national reward. It
tinguished officer alluded to ; but that it was not of a was merely to do justice to the Noble Lord that he
nature which entitled it to the reward demanded. It ; was anxious that House should agree to the vote, he
was time to put an end to the system of delusion which 1 wished that they should determine upon the policy
had so lately grown into fashion, when failures and 1 which he maintained was to be found in the vote pro-
defeats were received by Government, with all the de-1 posed. In giving a permanent reward to the Noble
monstrations of rejoicing attendanton brilliant success. Lord, they would convey to posterity the prop* de-
The Earl of DESART, (in a maiden speech,) I gree of estimation in which they held the military
warmly panegyrieed Lord Wellington and the glo- I character ail: the country. If those Gentlemen who
rious battle of Talavera. He thought that the pen-' were disposed to object to the grant could chew that
Sion proposed was due to Lord Wellington, not I the Peerage had been improperly bestowed, then in-
merely as a' remuneration for his services, but as an deed a sufficient argument was adduced to satisfy
honorary grant to which he was well entitled. He was : him that the pension was improper. The Right Hon.
surprized that the spirit of party could so blind men's' Gentleman entered into a comparative view of the
eyes, or seal up their hearts, that they should not be ' services of Lord Wellington with other commanders
able to discover merit so transcendent. He believed on whom honours and rewards bad, been bestowed,
that there were many persons in this country who j and contended that it was State Policy to confer
took a pleasure in reviling every thing that was great lon the Noble Lord what was now asked, because
and distinguished in the country, and who would be i his services had been eminently useful to the coun-
glad• to see the first families in it reduced to absolute ' try. He would suppose that if the arms of France,
' dependence on their generosity. To him it appeared 1 after a long series of defeats, should to-morrow
that the battle of Talavera displayed in a most emi- ,be victorious, would the House be surprised if
nent degree those qualities which are most admired in ' the Ruler of
.that Kingdom bestowed upon the
a great General. General, not merely a Dukedom but a principality'
Mr. WHITBREAD stated, that notwithstanding with all the appendages ? Xould not the House say,
the anathema of party hostility made against the op- that he acted wisely, in showering down honours
posers of this grant, he must continuetooppose it. He and substantial rewards upon the person who Lad
could never subscribe to the doctrine, that because the raised the military character of France, and retrieved
Crown was advised to elevate individuals to the Peer- that part of the honour of the country from that obey-
lap, that therefore it was a matter of course, for that ance under which it had so long lain dormant. Ap.
'louse to vote a pension to support it. Such a disposal ply that to the case now before the House, and the
of the public money would be nothing less than a gross Gentlemen would see that, at least on the ground of
and scandalous profusion. But then it was asked, policy—(The Vote war called for)—for the sake of
i
would the opposers of that motion degrade the Peer- example, as a stimulus to future commanders, as an
age? Was itbecoming in the Gentleman opposite to put I useful lesson to the country, and as an incitement to
such a question ? Degrade the Peerage ! By whom was our youths training to arms to tread in the steps of
it degraded ? By the Right Hon. Gentleman, the the Noble- Lord, he must support the grant. The
Chancellor of the Exehequer,who had offered an eleva- House would do wisely to make him the living mo-
tion in that Peerage as a barter for his support in office. nument, and not wait until his person was gone, and
With respect to the claims of Lord Wellington, for nothing but his fame .survived, before they thought
whom, though opposed to the present proposition, he of reward. If it was necessary that the House of
had an esteem, as a distinguished officer, he still must Peers should be filled, it could not be bettor filled than
say, that he conceived the rewards already bestowed with sech persons as the Noble Lord and others whohave
were superior to those conferred upon other gallant made themselves conspicuous in the annals of glory.
men for great national services. Had not Nelson —He wished the other House not to be a stagnant '
been known to the country before the battle of Abou- lake of collected honours, but liable to receive ire
kir ; had he not been engagedin some thirty or forty addition new streams. According to all the beau-
battles, yet did he receive, after the victory at tiful theory of cur Constitution, he was convinced
Abosikir, a double Peerage, as Lord Wellington did? this House had the right, by its vote of this night,
No such honour was conferred, neither, as he be- to enter into its share of the prerog alive of the
lieved, was there a pension upon that occasion be- Crown, by granting the Noble Lord a pension, and
stowed. In the mix of Earl St. Vincent, the pension not allow him to go into the House of Peers depen.
did not follow as a consequence of the title, for in dent, not only in himself, for support from the Crown
point of time the grant was not voted until some to maintain his dignity, but also rendering his poste.
months after, when upon inquiry it was ascertained, rite- subject to the same state of dependence.
that the private fortune of that Nobleman was by no , The Committee divided on the motion,
means as extensive as was .at first supposed. Mr. Ayes 213—Noes 106—Majority 107.
Whitbread stated his full coincidence in what fell The House resumed, and the report was ordered
from the Worthy Baronet ( Burdett), respecting the ap- .to be received co Monday. .
plication of sinecure °lilies to reward nationalservice, • The House adjourned at half-past twelvst cecina
as well as in his proteitiagatnst the principle that that till Monday.
•

, and bit ;rat, ttd held together It no vett pnMie 124144p50Va11iftr4411114121:
1). If 'principle, and indeed never concurring iri iiny thing e
If the *but tie' vote they gave. Another Honourable squandered away die* dwn Ora finkulles• As 11
ad-in ?ember Mr. Herbert) estimated the value of the . faithful steward of the-peblic he seversouliteoseent
der, a battle of Talavera, by the impression it made upon to such a proposition. Mr. W. next took a review
of it, thettmperor of the French. What ! was British valour of the progress of Vora Wellington to Talavera, and
iublic so low in our own estimation, that in order to acquire( contended that in that battle he had by no means dis•
was a reputation of gallantry, it was necessary to make a I played those great comprehensive faculties-which de.
4,1 • • n, t_