Star.
London, England, 1821-02-13 00:00:00

was fixed upon, it might be given to some Peer, dred different instances. lie mentioned the case of fore, they ought to let irf a sufficient number of the
;ethos become. the property of a private individual. Shoreham, in Lord North's Administrations • adjoining F eeholders as would secure the fair and
ge odd not help thinking, that the Representation The Hon. Mr. WARD said, that Parliament had incorruptible right of franceise. He was, therefore,
rt present stood upon too narrow a 'basis for the long ago recognised the principle and the propriety of opinion that the adjoining Ilandreds should have
.rizhts of the People and the interests of the Nation— of transferring the elec.ive franchise from places a share in the elective franchise.
feeerehore). We ought to be ready to see, when- convicted of notorious corruption. This was then Mr. LENNARD maintained, that if this Borough
ior the franchise was taken away, whether it might 'no new principle ; and thcref•ore by agreeing to this was in any way to he allowed to retain its elective ft-An-
se be expedient to transfer it to all persons payteg I Bill, no one pledged himself to support the general chise, like all other delinquent Boroughs, it would
get and lot. If that rule eras adopted in this case, qucition of Reform. It was well known that many return to its former practices. It would be far more
the I very populous
the House vtould then see with what advantage yplaces. had no direct representation; consistent to transfer it to some rich and populous
toed go into the Committee. They would have a :but far be it from him to say, that the whole empire. town. This was the principle on which our ancestors
elan before them as to the necessary qualification, I war, not indirectly represented ; still large manufac- had always acted. If this course had been more uni-
Lie this was the grand principle to be ascertained. turing places wished to be represented by persons in- vernally adopted, would any one i4y,
.that the Minis-
Ile did not believe that the country could stand the timately acquainted with their business and their in- ters would have been allowed to persevere so long in
,erperiment of a mixed monarchy, against the self- wrests. This was itself a prima facie case of the a course of taxation and extravigaace, and of injus-
wet and Siolence which would act in so intense a propriety of granting this franchise to Leeds. It had rice against the Queen?
ewer, when an opportunity was given to persons been suggested, that this franchise should be trans- Mr. LITTLETON hoped the House would not
so
n
g small sums to act upon the feelings of their ferred
to one of the Ridings of Yorkshire ; but, re- meet this case by any jesuitical evasions; hut that
presentatives. spectable as the country gentlemen were, they still they should proceed to condign punishment at once,
Sir JOHN NEWPORT was surprised that while were not a class of men who by their habits and edu- and by so doing they would shew the People that
the Honourable Member who had spoken last had cation were fitted for the general business of this they were sincere in punishing gross and palpable
expressed a sort of horror at the idea of deciding House. Indeed, in his opinion, the great interests. cases of corruption. Was Cornwall to he still ea•
prematurely upon the place to which the Represen- for instance, of wood and iron, deserved to be per- voured with as Much of the dues of electioneering
'ration shoal be transferred, he had felt no difficulty sonified in that Houie. It was idle to imagine that grace? He was sme,ethat if the House adopted the
'whatever in deciding upon the more important ques- there were no small towns and boroughs which sent proposition of the Noble Lord, it would go a great
itiee with regard to the extinction of this and other Members to Parliament : but our ancestors recog- way. towards recovering the confidence of the People,
`loch flerottr s. It was very clear, however, that no nized the principle of transferring the right of Repre- if in any degree it had lost it.
thing coul 'done till the House went into the sentation to 'the great towns. The first anomaly that Sir S. MORLAND supported the motion.
Committee. It'appeared from the statement of the struck the mind was the want of Representation in Lord JOHN RUSSELL denied that this question
Honourable Member for Galway, that the free• large meeotactuting towns. He did not mean to involved one of general lteform ;or that any Gentle-
holders were all afraid to have the Bribery Oath ad- say, that such a Measure would have much effect in man who voted for his proposition, would be obliged
ministered; but surely a Borough so tainted ought repairing tfioie grievances which Radical Reformers to vote for the question of general Reform. The lion.
Dot to be allowed for a moment to retain the elec- complained of, aird thought it would remedy. He Gentleman (Mr. Gilbert), being a Cornish man, might
tive franchise. If the House should not concur in could,not see how the doctrine of
,proximity ought wish to keep this Representation in Cornwall, but
the present motion, the People would receive it as a to be recognized, nor how the inhabitants of the there were few, he believed, who would join with him
sure indication that Parliament was opposed to all Hundreds should become heirs of the deceased He in that opinion. The Bill he was now proposing, was
salami./ Reform; and a greater injury to the charac- roughs. They might as well, if a ease of delinquency introducing a practice new indeed, but quite conso-
ter of the House than such an opinion he could not were proved against the Governor and Directors of earn to the practice of the Constitution in the very
possibly imagine. the Bank, call in the inhabitants of Threadneedle- best periods of it. Grampound had been guilty of
Mr. D. GILBERT, after admitting the enormous street to share in the Direction of the Bank. The the grossest corruption, and therefore deserved no
extent to which bribery and corruption had prevailed people of Grempound had long made a snug mar- longer to enjoy its privilege of election. He wished
at GrAMpOtilld, said, that the only question which • ketable commodity of their elective leanChise, Ile the House, upon every occasion, to support its che-
wer remained to •be discussed, was, as to how the had rather not alter the Constitution at ail ; but racier and privileges in the State, by punishing such
representation should be disposed of. Upon the sae. whenl;eetas obliged to alter, he had rather do it ac- gross and flAgrant abuses.
ject of Reform, in its general sense, he entirely terding to known usage add prectice, than take a Mr. D. GILBERT's amendment was then nega-
agreed in every sentiment of an address which, upon new course, and endanger the whole edifice. Lived without a division.
certain occasion, the Right Hon: Member for Li- 'Mr. W. WYNN said, this was not a question as to Mr. BEAUMONT moved, as .an amendment—
verpool (Mr. Canning) had delivered to his constitu- a general change in the mode of the Representation ; " That it be an instruction to the Committee, to
ents. We had solved a ptoblem too difficult for all ; because that he should always oppose; but this was a transfer the Elective Franchise from Grampound, to
the world to comprehend ; we had made the demo- real and'pr*tecal evil, arising out of gross and glaring the West Riding of the County of York..'
vatic branch of the Constitution to co-exist with the :corruption: He therefore viewed the mater in the Mr. N. CALVERT hoped the Hon. Gentleman
two other branches. This, •though tried, had been same light as his Idorrourable Friend who spoke last would press this to a division, because it would, in his
found impracticable in every other country. It had ihad done.. If a gross
.ind• glaring corruption was opinion, be much better to have two additional
been well observed by a Noble Lord on a former oc- I provediethe majority Of the Electors of a Borough, Members for the County of York, instead of giving
casion, that the Constitution, when most in danger-el the innocent Minority must 'suffer with the guilty two to Leeds.
was preserved by a certain spell, which might be majority. Stich- evils :as this were known to cure Mx. S. WORTLEY said, he should give a very
compared to the lamp of Aladdin. But if the de- themselves without the intervention cif Parliament. hearty vote for the proposition of the leoble Lord;,
mocracy was not preperly tempered and softened At the time Wilkes was the idol of the mob, he used for he thought that the elective franchise. should be
down, it would be impossible for the Monarchy to to say, that the Independent Electors of Aylesbory taken from Grampound altogether, and given to
exist. He thought that the House was more die- would take his pounds sooner than any other body's some large town. In this respect Leeds was most
posed than it ought, to be carried away by the tem- pence. He saw ne reason that the Hundreds adjoin- worthy to receive the privilege of sending two Mem-
?miry opinions of the People. The Honourable ing should have the transfer of this franchise.- It hers to Parliament. By giving it to the Freeholders
Member, after some further observations, moved, as would therefore be desirable to 'give it to some po- of Yorkshire, it would give no additional Represen-
an Amendment, what he termed a' permissive in- pulous 'place ; and 'therefore he wished it given to mein. Every Freeholder in Yorkshire was already
-erection to the Committee to extend the franchise to' Yorkshire; because the number of Freeholders were represented ; but in Leeds, there were vast bodies of
the freeholders of certain adjacent Hundreds, exclu- so great, that they could not conveniently exercise people who thought upon political subjects, and who
siveof all towns corporate and their jurisdictions, and their elective franchise at one place. At the last had no organ in that House. Though an enemy to
to prohibit the right of voting to Grampound. Election, 26,000 Freeholders voted. Yorkshire and general Reform, yet if he was obliged to Reform, he
Mr. PHILLIPS opposed the Amendment. He felt Lancashire were the only two Counties in England, would give the elective franchise to the populous ma-
cro apprehension from the influence of the democracy where, from the number of Freeholders, and the ex- nufacturing towns. If they incteased the Members
in the &ate. It was very clear that the People of tent of the Counties, the Freeholders could not vote for Counties, the People would say with justice that
England were not represented to the extent they conveniently at one place. He reprobated the cla- they were throwing all the power and eeighten the
ought to be; they were not represented in the man- mour of Reformers, and declared himself satisfied land into the hands of the Aristocracy, whereas it
'nee which Mr. Burke called " the spirit and essence with the House, as it stood, except where charges of was to the advantage of the constitution of that
of she British Constitution." According to the lion. gross corruption were proved against particular House that it allowed all kinds of interests in the
Member, no one was more aware than himself of places. He would give the preference to the propce State into it.
the corrupt practices which hid so long 'disgraced sition for transferring the franchise to Yorkshire. Alderman HEYG ATE wished the Home to bear
the Borough of Grampound.. But what remedy did Mr. F. ROBINSON was disposed to punish Gram- in mind that none of the towns engaged in the geeat
he now propose d'or them ? To transfer the franchise pound; but he preferred doing it by letting in the woollen manufactures of the country, sent a Member
to a.distent part of the country, where the contagion Hundreds to the franchise, rather than the two other to Parliament. He should vote against the Amend-
coultenot extend? No such thing ;he would confer' modes that had been proposed. A similar punish- ment.
itson the neighbouring Hundreds, where the foul ment was proposed to be inflicted on Penrhyn ; and Mr. H. SUMNER avowed himself a determined
disease could spread itself with ease and rapidity. therefore it seemed most fair to do with Grampound enemy of all sorts of Reform except such as were re-
He recollected that the Right Hon. Member for Li- as was proposed to have been done with respect to quired by cases of glaring abuse and corruption, as
etepoole to whom allusion had been made this even- Peerhyn. As some of the Electors of Grampound the present. He, however, preferred giving the elec-
jag, had said that an increase of population, without had neither disgraced nor forfeited their right, they five franchise to Yorkshire leather than to Leeds.
a proportionate increase of revenue, eves no argil- ought not to be deprived of it ; and therefore he pre- Alderman 'BRIDGES was in layout of transfer.
*rent why the right of voting should be extended to ferred letting in the Hundreds. ring the franchise to Leeds.
• unrepresented places. But did not an increase of Mr-WEST thought the House would see the ne- The House then divided, when the numbers were,
population argue of necessity an increase of revenue. cessity of agreeing to transfer the franchise from For Mr. ThAIMONT'S Amendment . 66
What could give a title to representation—what could Grampound to Leeds. He wished Ministers to con- Against it 1.16
.
produce an increase of revenue, but wealth, popue cider whether they could not best stop the discontent Majority for the original Motion --70
lation, and commerce? If these were not sufficient and the bad feeling in the People, by admitting the The House having teselved itself into a Com-
qualifications, lie knew not what were. There was large manufacturing places to a fair share in the Re- mittee on the Bill,
now, in every part of the country, a great increase presentation of the State, by allowing them to choose Mr. D. GILBERT expressed a wish that the Noble
of mind and intelligence. -If the House should ex- Members who were acquainted thoroughly with their Lord (Lord J. Russell) would agree to expunge that
. elude men from the rights of representation who wants and interests. If Ministers were well informed clause by which the Freeholders of Grampound,
. thought themselves entitled to those rights, it would of all the misery and wretchedness of these manu- against whom no acts of corruption had been preyed,
met certainly tend to make them enemies of the lecturing districts, he thought they would turn their were still disqualified from voting at the county elece
Constitutioa—( Hear). It appeared that the County attention to the repair of these grievances, by giving lions. They were, he believed, but few in number,
of Cornwall sent forty-four Members to Parliament, them Representatives in Parliament. There was still yet the justice of the case remained the same.
and this was about one-eleventh part of the Repre- a strong feeling of attachment to the Institutions of Lord JOHN RUSSELL intimated that he bad
sentation of England. Lancashire, which was so the country, which nothing but the worst possible no objection.
highly important a County in wealth and population, Government could destroy, in the minds of the People. Mr. H. SUMNER thought it would be right to
formed one thirty-fifth part ; and Yorkshire, which Mr. WILNIOT thought they would be dealing point out a specific term for the duration of the elec-
comprised more than a tooth of the population of unfairly with this question if they mixed it at all up tion. As in London 10,000 voters were enabled to
'England, formed a seventeenth or eighteenth part. with that of Parliamentary Reform. He saw no vote in the space of eight days, he thought it would
In Lancashire there was .only one Member fur every reason why the elective franchise should not be trans- be a source of great inconvenience to the inhabitants
XO,OOO .of the population; and in the County of ferred to the large and populous towns. He should of Leeds to be occupied iu an election for even six.
Yoele one Member for every 35,000. He saw no not be satisfied unless the name of Grampound were Lord J. RUSSELL considered theeuggestion of
eeasieti‘ whatever why there should be this disparity totally expunged from the list of elective franchise, the Hon. Gentleman as extremely useful. He might
iseiween the representation of these Counties and in order, by such punishment, to deter them from propose kw-morrow, so that the Bill might go through
Conotaa. Let the House look at the proportion similar crimes in future. There was no instance of the Committee then, and be ordered to be printed,
erhfelt Ceernwall bore to those Counties, in point of transferring the franchise to the itiding of a County, After a few words from Mr. C. Weiser
wealth.' The property of Cornwall formed one fifty but there were many instances of transferring it to e CHAIRMA repo
N rerted progress, and obtained'
fourth part of the property of England; the pro- large manufacturing towns. He should, therefor; leave to sit again tr-morrow (this day).
Petty of Lancashire one sixteenth part; and the pro- rather support the preposition of the Noble Lord than The House their resumed, and, on tee motion of
.perry of Yorkshire about one tenth or one eleventh any of the others, provided he would give him a peee the CHANCELLOR of the EICHEQSJER, the Helmet of
Pre To give the preference of representation to per security as to the persons to be allowed to exercise the Committee of Ways and Means was brought up,
Cornwall, rather than to Lancashire or Yorkshire, the elective franchise in Leeds. and the Resolutions being agreed to, Bills were W.',
was to argue, not in the ratio of wealth and popula. Mr. B. BATHURST said, this was the first in- rected to be brought in in conformity to them. •
*ion, but in the inverse ratio. In the year 18161 stance of carrying the elective franchise to a distance WE QUEEN.
Cornwall paid about one sixty seventh part of the from the disfranchised Borough. it was, therefore, TheCHANCELLUR oftheEXCllEQUEßrnoved
Poor Rate-,and Yorkshire paid one eleventh or one proper hat they should consider what Parliament that there be /aid before the House an Account of
av
elfth parr. The Honourable Member concluded had done in all similar instances, ill order m intro- all Sums issued for her Majesty's use,
_since the Ac-
his remarks by expressing himself disposed to trans- duce as little innovntien as possible into this mode of cession of his present Majesty.—Ordered.
fee the franchise to Leeds, or some such large unit- transferring the elective franchise. all cases, he This Account was produced, and laid on the table.
Presented town, rather than to any other Islam contended, the House bad been in the habit of purge The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then
Mr. H. GURNEY could not conceive what the iug corrupt Boroughs- by letting in the surrounding moved that the House should resolve itself into a
oounty of Cornwall had done to deserve a double Hundreds. The principle was, that the House, in re- Comtnitten of the whole House on the Queen's An-
hare in the Representation of the People. It did forming a Borough. never went further than he ne- nuity Right Honourable Gentleman after.
not
%rpm that the Members for large and populous cessity of the case required. He admitted that this, wards Mowed the reading of the first clause, which
'Places were more liable to be corrupted than those was a stronger case of corruption than any that had enacted that the sum of-R.50,000 a-year should be
who re
tha_ presented small Boroughs. They would
.find, hitherto come before the House; but, as some of the granisid to her Majesty.
from the time of. Edward IL to Charles IL the, Electors of GrampounJ had not shared in it,it would Mre Alderman C. SMITH objected to this clause,.
prillciPle of transfer had been acted upon in a bun- be unjust to punish them with the guilty; and, there. as containing, in fact, the substance of the Bill, which