Star.
London, England, 1818-02-06 00:00:00

sarZiiied, that it could -be ,of ,any 14vm-_ag, to Cr:
community. When Governments were complained
of, and disaffection, as-they called it, prevailed, be-
cause the people were disaffected towards their pro-

ta biliot 1124 ,ial event instance-Q1 caws of this sort,' from may isiispendasu Masabors-.F ParAdasiSat.—
been resorted, to in order to leases the influence of: It was the great boast of the- country, and the lii at
Ministers, because it, was supposed voters would net' answer to bold reformers, that such recommenda• ions
be under,the • as if the,/ hadsiveatheir I were sore to brie an operative influencs on the Lie.
- - precedents i --
. .

....rt. He hoped the course haws: that
...unig would net be inconsistent with the
...Hof duty he took during the last Session. Ile
ilairtied no credit for the good opinion either. of Mi-
dilaters, or for that of those who might be their :ac-
es:son. His pride was to be an independent man (a
1,100); not indifferent to the good opinion of so-
Aty, or to that of the. Vex Popedi. Therearere many
..yrief oin which a Member of Parliament might evince
leiselependfmce. He should consider every man so
Itite aid not change from one side of the Hauge to
the other for his own benefit. lie had sat in the
House eleven years, and he could boldly say that he
lbw! caper got any thing for any vote he hied ever
ven ( 911Clei011, flfUlittli ). He said thus much for
'himself, because he undemood it had been stated by
i person conuccted with the Treasury, that his rrascrt
for opposing Ministers last Session was, that a diplo•
matic friend of his had not been employed.—Cries rf
Order, Order !
.• Mr. FORBES thought if any blame lay upon Mi-
nisters, relative to -the exercise of the extraordinary
powers with which the House had invested them, it
wit., in his judgment, for not applying them to the
great causes of the evil—those persons, who at the
anniversary dinners of elections and on ether public
occasions, endeavovred to enrage by their .seditious
harangues the public tranqaillity.- If such bad been
the course- purraed, he was confident it would have
t the approbation of the holies part of that House
ond of the country (a Lange.)
• The question was pat and carried, that the Pape:,
on the table be referred to a Ceniniittee; as was als..
the questions that the Committee be one of Secrecy,
and that it consist of ill Members.
On the question that the Members be chosen by
way of ballot,
Mr. BROUGHAM did not wish to protract the
debate, but merely to say why he could not give h.s
consent to the mode of election by ballot. The Nob:e
Lord would thus bring the House into a difficulty
Which they could tot get out of—if the Noble. Lot i
were to be ballotted, and a certain number were to
-be of opinion that the Noble Lord was not the fittest
person to sit on the Committee to decide on. his own
particular case, particularly as to any action brought
against him by those individuals, which, for any thing
that might be known, might already be entered ors
the record ? If any Member wished to pit the ques-
tion whether the Noble Lord should be a member of
the Committee, what he desired to kno-.v was, how
the sense of the House, could betaken on a name after
the ballot had been gone through?
Mr, CANNING was equally ahtious not to pro-
tract the debate ; but he saw no difficulty. as the
name of the Noble Lord would not be found iu tie
list that would be put on. the.table, unless by a ma-
jority of the House ; and. how a minority could turn
sonnd the division of a majority, was what he could
not comprehend. When he recollected that twirl-
mitten of this kind had been appointed in the same
way ' ever 7 4>cca3ioh, he thought-the argument v. i.s
-that if one mode • more .calcoialed
an
hi.:

ee same controul
feedings, then was the tine that the people at large i votes in the House. He quoted some pree.._ in
derived protection fremaliis important law, and not ; point, and concluded with repeating, that he eaw not
in times of general tranquillity. Yet, as soon as those 1 the slightest reason for refusing to appoint the Corn-
ti rues arrive, and when it was necessary to give proofs' :settee by ballot.
to all other nations of the superior' liberty we en- Mr. TIERNEY, in explanation, stated that all he
joyed, it might be taken as a precedent, that in the meant in his allusion to the trials at Derby we: this,
reign of Geo. 111. or rather of the Prince Regent, the that no part of the evidence addused upon those trials
British Ministers furnished their successors with did by no means justify the Suspension of the Ha-
means for violating the Constitution. Thinking there- bees Corpus Act.
fore, as he did, that the House owed to their consti- Sir W. BRROUGHS denied that the events th 4
tuents the duty of taking away the evil of this pro- had occurred since last &miens had-fully luetifieti
ceeding as mach as they could, he should vote for an the measures that had been adopted: his opinion was
inquiry of a different kind than that partial and de- directly the contrary. The Honourable and Learned
lusive one which was now proposed, the only object Baronet. proceeded to review the• proceedings from
of which was to pass a Bill of Indemnity for Ministers. the presentation of the first Report, ridiculing the
Mr. PHILLIPS thought no measure could have statements it contained of the tremendous-operations
the effect of producing disrespect so much as a par- in contemplation of a broken-down farmer, a half-
tial tribunal of this kind. This was not merely the starved apothecary, and two coblers. In the second
case of Ministers, but that of the country at large ; Report, all the disaffection so peculiarly applied to
it was the case of those districts where traitorous the capital was sunk, and it was specifically declared
purposes had been carried on, as well as the case of that no connexion subsisted between the conspirators
those persons who had been detained during the here and in the country. It had been said that five
Supermen. He was of opinion, that much more thousand placards bad been posted up, inviting the
effectual measures might have been taken than by people to rise and destroy the Government. tVas
sending spies and i4:irmers about to delude an ig- there any attempt to.prove this on the trial of Wat-
norant and unfortunate people. If these persons had son? None. at all.—Now as to Eierby, his opinion
been withdrawn instead of encouraged, a real ad- was directly contrary eo that Of the Roaourable lien-
vantage would have been derived. There was said tieman who spoke last. The civil magistrates were
to be a connexion amongst insurgents in different perfectly competent to seize and comma the leaders,
parts of the country ; but we had seen no such con- armed only with their ordinary powers. For the ph-
flexion proved, except the connexion amongst the tification of Government, he thoteeht some such eve.
spies.. The Honourable Gentleman, alluding to the deice as that which the Hotefindiele Gentlemen
incendiary projects in Lancashire, observed, that he thought improper ought to have been brought for-
believed he had traced that plot to its origin, and ward. The ground of defence Mae, the. the rioters
that it was owing to the spies and informers only; were out of bread; and the Learned Judge, in his
and he had no doubt whatever, that this fact, as far charge, left it to the Joey to decide whether there was
as it regarded Lancashire, could be proved. It was any particuhar object and concert amongst theme—
almost similar to what took place in 1812, when If this connection. had been proved by the evidence
spies and informers were paid by the Magistrates, ofthe informers, and that their object was general
and the most dreadful confusion in consequence en- destruction, including the Constituent, couldee have
sued—(hear, hear.)—All this. was fully proved in a been doubted that their conduct was hightreason ? It
publication by Dr. Taylor, late of Bolton, and now of would have excluded the arguments of Counsel, as to
Liverpool. When spies were thus encouraged, much their having no particular object in view, while it
allowance °fig-Nino be made by Ministers as to the would have disclosed who were the real instigators.
sources from which they drew their information.— One unhappy culprit bad dacha: ed expressly in his
Individuals were pointed out as engaged in a horrible last mome as, that he imputed to Oliver the crime
conspiracy unbeir.n Manchester, yet those who were he had co.nmitted. Then why not have produced
stigmatized. as the leaders in such plots hal been him? It would have shewn that it was not for Be-
taken up, kept in confinement, and at last liberated neral purposes, but for a particular object that they
without trial, although we were still told that such a had risen. But Minister saw they had no chance
conspiracy did exist. But was it not likely that such but by shilling the scene to Manchester, after the
men should be sent back with much more power to trial of Watson. How then would they answer to the
do mischief than they had before, by being represen- public for discharging those men who had been
ted as martyrs in the cause of liberty ? Instead of prisoned without any trial whatever, after charging 1
being surprised that the minds of poor people should them with going delibcraeely to work to overturn the,
be in a state of agitation from the conduct of these Goveranient—thus committing an oisert-act of high
spies, it was only surprising that much more mischief treason ? They had thus avowed, that none.of the
did not ensue•; and when the facts came before the grounds contained in the Second Report were nuE-
House, no doubt Gentlemen would be as much sur- cient to authorise the proceedings that had been
prised at it as he was himself. They had only been adopted. As to the charge of disaffection, had not
taught, when half-starving, to look up for relief. to the general feeling on a late melancholy event proved
Parliamentary Reform ; and though it was. known that ' • never was a more general - 'to
that there were between 800 and 900,000 men in this the. ' and -the
alarming state in Lancashire and its neighbourhood, then
so far from any serious project being discovered, As to 1.
nothing of any consequence was found out. Now, n:: re e.
supposing, instead of sending spiei and informers to 'that the
delude and deceive these poor people, they had sent a
persons to reason with and console them, how diffe- Session.
rent might have been the result ? But as no mis- tion of that part of the Aet of I.st Sessiorewhich
chief did wile, it was a strong presumption that Go- related to the preventing of suspicious meetings, and
vernmerit was in the wrong. which would expire in July?. 'lf not, he saw no
Mr. worn thought it would have-been better if prospective measure thee toed hare in view but that
' all discussion had been postponed till the question of indemnity. The Noble Lord had said this night,
had passed of referriycZe papers to a Committee; in plain terms, that some abuses or violations of the
but as so much had said, he owed it to the law had taken place. Then it amounted to this : that
House and himself to declare, that his opinion of the Parliament haJconfided tothein extraordinary powers,
propriety of the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus and they had even exceeded them, •by keeping her
Act last year remained unchanged; that its necessity sons in jail, and then dismissingatem without any
had been proved by the circumstances that had trans- trial. How were these nem to obtain-redress for the
pired at the different trials, and that it was his firm injuries they had sustained, but by bringing actions?
conviction that the country"hacl been rescued by it and yet they were to be deprived of all remedy by a
from the greatest -dangers.--(Hear, hear, hear.)— Report from Members appointed by Ministers them-
It had been said that Government might have pre- selves, and without an opportunity of being heard
vented what happened by taking ordinary precau- by going 'before the Committee. In his eudgment.
dons, and apprehending, under the ordinary powers, this was one of the most violent proceedings that
the suspected leaders of the conspiraciesee-eMr. Tier- Parliament had-eeir recorded, and he entreated the
ney here explained his precise words, which he con- House to pause before they put such powers into the
ceived had been misapprehended by the Honourable hands of Ministers, 'by giving them the privilege of
Gentleman.)—Was it, however, to be concluded, that the ballot.
because these men were not brought to trial that no Sir JOHN SEBRIOHT declared, that after hay-
coaspiracy, had been going on 1.- It was positively ing read and considered the Report of the Commit-
sworn at Derby, that those persons were fed with the tee, he thought the state of the country required that
constant hope that assistance would arrive to them Act, strong as it certainly was ; and he was one of
from different parts of the kingdom. (Hear, hear.)— those who *mild always be ready to strengthen the
He believed this was not without foundation, and heeds of Goner:mem wherieverele-was necessary to
,he also believed they would have proceeded to put &win conspirators of any deeetiPeoe. But he MURDER AND ROBBERY.
more open action, if they had not been restrained I owed it he Wieser sled the sought to watt, thm on
LIKIILICIt Jar. St.—Tuesday morminz, at three &neck, a
by the measures which had taken place, and for 1 that oceatinn he was' grossle deceived. (Loud Cries party of men, exceeding twenty, well armed, knocbed le tee
which be had given his vote, though he was not I tyleizr, hear,
would
the Opposition Benches.) Perhaps &tor of Mr. hristopher Spading, a respectable hemebehler of
a Member of the Committee. Indeed, in Yorkshire, i Gentlemen would not honour hint with cheers when the village of Patr.ick's Weil, is th" county, limn a shot tiros*
the hall door, and demanded a poor, esseser, who tad takes 4
it was known there was so armed body: prepared, !theLlstizre that'it was not Ms intention to impute to hi, todzi.,tl there, in the rapacity of a schoolmaster. on
retei,-
.
drawn out, and firing on the King's troops.--(lharei it any deception. Were the cheers mere loudly log no answer,. they violently broke in a window, (mitred ,I„,
Yet, although it may not have been brought home repeated/fern the Ministered! sidee But although he house, and rushed ta stain, at the head elf which they were most
to indisiduals, the fact itself was quite clear. But' fully exonerated etifinistery flow- aft-suspicion of any
endwoleretlkreiliv. anAd
grknoceatknedumdbeowtro,bintwo
niclisether en'
*ho missed fire at them three tunes; be thee
then it was mid, why were the trials so conducted as intention to deceive, it di eo him, from
I wil'uyhroe.7er:ts h
ise
hb3ep.fettf I
not to shew the full extent of ehe conspiracy, by the any thing thaehed come tollileimmetedge, that the
stseetk..i.,_,war:i
phrbies:
en:
sundetieatterhecorriillinakrghotro hie assistance, 5t1174 otte.r f
exam:nation of the informers? He would answer, ordinary laws of the ementity tnVitnot -have. been them on the head with a candlestick, andthen took bold cf aIF is
that this was not the duty of the Crown Officers ;. sufficient to restore tranquillity: 7 .Ur took no thine. 'ciwskihechhe"ld 'lii6g
6263", In
tIpl:
their duty was to bring home treason, according to' to-himself for his vote;-but in hisinierthle opitrioa-the. si:e=4Steltk':he-Irsistaneer of the schoulthasttbeerfrailh-terl the m..
the proofs they had of its existence. Indeed he saw , events had not justified the messurerthat lhidetieen lon beilerne out of the- loby window, and If 0411 he T 7.4
ample reason why those persons should not have been ' resorted to. ( Hear, hear.) '•-:-: • • - • -- ' kilted. A% tbat time a ruffian And thsvnigli one or the anon, „d
kb...crone Tho had his back against at. lien father iseieg
brought fcrward. Suppose Brendzeth, Turner, and! Mr. ELLISON contended. that no -one could ISt:- the*.
oti dat frontties
wane
tn
eertoclett.llifrerest
btete, ~,,,
Ludlam, had been taken up after that meeting, wbeiti lien otherwise than that Drantlrcth,had had a gross ''''
ant d'ull'srelot.ttewdClr:r.'anstellee,"
iron on the bead, after which. she crept behind tie house; eie...d
they arranged their operations. If the informere falsehood imepted on him, respecting Oliver, at the
had been brought forward, it wesaid have been said, timeef hiseenation. That we were indanger be concealed herseif. Hex *tee emeiped flout a back *below with-
" You are spies; you were preemie at that meeting; !tacit° doubt; but, thank Gon, we had subdued it. oat, injury :, during this time timISI ftthet was sersouneee es hie
you are not proper evideneat" Hs felt conviocad He iiould toe, from his own experience ai a hfagi- • 4°
fiche placew. dartairthate beingceini elm le'.th 6; cc re's .':g e bll s were elite the cgs cc...!
Outrages. ]duty
.4
jeuenut,tedoec, ankd,
hands, the planastedriazi:
more::
wsu:tedowtdsocLtbefewthwegnstiey.ctonhosneliglpihk4ri!
that
ifthethyccseourred nnothlabecave been convicted fnmonbthersakevting- . aliesixals`couthiitinsy, taaser:schitade thbeene pcoerleismitoroese
denceaercfeectly true 'as it appeared to be, because •he thought that if Parliament. had not acted as they. weltering blood,they broke every ter attitle in the house, and wee t
the e • would have been mistrusted. He theme hacidone, they would have been guilty of a dere- rah They soon eft'rrtzujr
,sir dead, in which sate
Is murder-41e cried for .rry arreell aa.he was able, but me
fure thoeght great 'utility bad arks= from the Sea- lictioa of their duty, and. if they could not make out rpliod, you Tana!, yon have kil Y Wther, and that'
cut ;a
pension of the. Habeas Corpus Act, which emabled a good case, he wooed pledge himself re vote against his ,krad most violently, and left '
Government to text up persons, and not to release them. kle pretested against that sort: of ttla.spbee t',,..?!7 Ulna gyrd in the m . . The Dutton luxe not
I ...L..a.ATCPUItt .11. am-. an. alol ttAllio<ifelittappaZettlit:h t 1,1117. i.bli air
twbi:
them till the danger was over. Such precaution' mous and, seditious trash with which we eerie intnier)e-2 , ~..., :
were wise, prudent, and justifiable. Entertaining the* dated,. and tee• ebjeet of which was w demoralize. had roterAi, but owe 'escapee uneun. 'Mu °`
opinion,. he saw no reason to rapette of the vote he the.countree . .1- - tiossepi.--This morning emir tone Mew* gat over tit! tree
had given last yeses with respect to the paesent . Mr. Setene„Lß'enesidered that the s,reteit Eisele railing *front of Deni, Redden, 61.'1. howeeheorevelieshreew,
qurtion, he saw no came to doubt of the propriety' from thilmeiroree settee:l the cenntisi is not due te I tehelehrstekturbe% ve,tlehs-weas. eus4 ,ored semis, 'Yen Pamir,
‘. t. -. ‘riwth,ktia-1 Z.h4. re ,t.la y
of emcee-ins 'br balker as the nenebers would hie! 'Knitters. bet to the hint (.." the ne,-essity- of retrench- I rf.,„,ftred hi, into ter o,ef i,'; ~Cll)7l44"itu.
areseeted by a vett d tee Mame kreeeedinees. moist -..fieien eherleed eirieng-the last feensiou.rtctived 1, and same shoes, sal aood Air decar.rcdi - ' , '""C. .'"4

~ as it
was called, and the other
,from the Opposition, anJ
,they usually produced a wonderful coincidence.—
Then, what did the argument CRON R), but that a de-
`bate might be raised on an individual name?
Vi l.e-
ther this was an objection, he thought hardly wiz,: di
inquiry.
• After a few words from Mr,Bootasam . and Mr.
.TFEausy, in explanation, the Hose evided,—For the
Motion 'ln--Against it 29--Majneiariit faniur of
the Ballot 73.
Mr. SAVILLE gave flotilla, that en Taestki his
should
move for leave to bring in a very short rall,but one partiiukrly
affeiting the Land..-d Interest, as its object Would he fo protect
them against Tenants fearing Lands that have 1:11413 in their
possession, without paring theirvent--Ationes!a.
The following is the List of the Minority against the
Nomination, by Ballot, of the Secret Committee:
Babbington, T. Fellowes, Hon. N. Otd, Weak
Burroughs, Sir W. Faaakerly, J. N. Piggott, Sir A.
Brtsugham, H. Ferr:sson, Sir FL C. Philips, GeOrge
Burdett, Sir F. Harcourt, John. • Roman Sir S.
Barnett, Jounce Herm, Sir R. Scudamoee, R. P.
Brand, Hon. T. Latouehe, Colonel Simmons. Z. p.
Browne, Dom. Macdonald, James &bright, Sit J.
Calcraft, J. Methuen, P. - Tierney, At. Hn. C.
Campbell, Hon. J. Nugent, Lord Waldtgreva,Hn...V.
Douglas, Hon. F. Ossulstone, Lord Wood, Akhernin.
Folkestone, Ld.Vie. •
Triisas—Hon. J. Abercroatby and R. Gordon.
The Tellers made a mistake and returned 29 instead of 31.

iat-there never nits a more general 'attachment to way ou ever 7 occasion, he thouilit,the argument v.
ie House of Brunswick and the Constitution, than conclusive, .that if one mode wee snore scakiziai.e.l
len prevailed amongst people of every class id,- than another :to eater an inck_vidual'a valises* so an
.s to the mode of balfot,. he denied that. it was nut 414ivi.41124 POP4.•Witil.the vent* delicacy...to Ifv:
re exceptionable than that by vote, and • :lessljngik s bellptwok the-bot or only.w.ariairitich
lat the ob)ect:of the Wigwam befdre then 4 14.0dPia *Wits AlbiNak4ll4ll4loolollllo iespagaber
posthumous justificaitni Of The meisdriis'efths-last .wham these vote two lists iasireaktices.oa..alt- such
ession. Did they mean to move for a continua- -occasions—the one issuing from the Treasem as it