Star.
London, England, 1829-05-12 00:00:00

14,,,..,,t.)41tat,

TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 12, 1829.

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT.

HOUSE OF LORDS, May 11.
Their Lordships were sampled midi five o'clock hearing a=
After which several private Hills were brought up from the
a Commons, sod read a Int time.

Mr. Reitha'Cum presented Cip;;il;d Report of the Cootatisdthers
at the Metropolis Turnpike loads.
Mr. ammo presented model, paper froth the Com&limn of
the Clarence Railway.
Is A Fenno reamed papers froth the Court of Ithbetteer is

Several private Bilis were forwarded Weigh their respective
stages.
Lord DURHAM rammed a Petities from Newcastle-upon.
I Tyne. and another frees Carted*. in Northensiserload, is favour of
the Newcastle Rahway BM. The Noble Lord presented a petition
also frees the rawder and jounseyertea shoemakers of Newcastle-
opou.Ttne. eempinithe of their distress. and spinet the importa-
tion et Femme\ ohm, to whack they &adhered the comm.—Ordered
to lie epos the table.
TM Red of FALMOUTH presented a Petkloo frees the weer.
grewen of a platy in Cornwall against the impartation of forceps
weer. The Noble Earl impressed it to be his opinion that there was
,so subject which• better deserved the attendee of Parilamest than
the proses* distress ef the wsol•growen,.aad thermal cause thereof.
—Laid en the table.

Lord IntELMlLß3DALEpresested a Pedden from Wigaa.ln
Lancashire. signed by 2,000 persons, calling the &deaden of Par-
liament to the monopoly in the trade between this country env
India. Tbe Noble Lord observed that it would be premature at
dim present time to enter upon a discussion of the subject. or even
to stress an opinion open It i but this be Mould my that the mode
suggested by the pedtioners appeared to bins the only one which
meld possibly relieve the distress which prevailed in comegoesee
of the evil. and which certainly was now greater than at any other
period —The petition was laid on the table.
The Duke of RICHMOND presented a Palsies *plow the
immortal's of foreign wool.
The Marquis of LA NS DOWN gore aides that temseenste he
would pretest a Petition from the town sod oeighbeerhood of
Manchester respecting the renewal of the gut India Company's
Charter.

acquire gain. He bad beard with horror of the
dreadful crimes that had been perpetrated for the
sake of procuring subjects for anatomical diuectioe.—
Unless the awful fact convinced him of its truth he
never should have believed that persons could be toond
so horribly depraved as to put numbers of their fellows
to death for the sake of a scanty gain. But yet it was
so, and a frightful proof bad been given that human
nature could arrive at so• low an ebb. How was it
proposed that the Legislature should prevent the recur-
rence of such scenes bat to adopt a means for providing
subjects ? Upon the same principle, therefore, he
founded his measure. The market was not suffered to
be in the hands of those persons, who, in consequence,
acted illegally. Then, he would say, suffer them to do
the thing legally. Besides, had they not tried to inquire
into the probability of the good effects of such a system,
from the evidence of the poulterers, who had lolly
proved the truth of his hypothesis? He saw his Noble
Friend opposite smiling at this. Perhaps he might think
that the poulterer had his own interest in view. But
they had the evidence of other persons, who told them
that until they made it legal to sell game the system
which bad been carried on so long, and in spite of all
the efforts of the Legislitire. would continue to be per-
severed in. If the temptation continued, the only way
to render the offence less frequent appeared to him to
make the temptation less, and all be wished to do was to
make the temptation to the poacher less. If he were shked
to what he would attribute the increased disturbances of
last year, he should have no hesitation in saying that they
proceeded in a great degree from the steps which their
Lordships themselves had taken. Many attributed the
increase of crime io this respect to the stop that was put
Ito the setting of spring guns. However that might
affect it, his Bill did not interfere with that. He could,
however, have no hesitation to say, that he would pre-
fer that system to have been persevered in rather than
that such lawless violence as had frequently been prac-
tised should continue. The principle he always had in
view was, first of all, to alter the laws respecting the
sale of game, and to legalize that practice; and, after
he had established that, to make some alteration with
respect to the qualification of persons to shoot. With
respect to the precise nature of the qualification, it did
appear that Noble Lords were not aware of the law
upon the subject. It seemed rather strange that, al-
though he might have a right to shoot upon his own
land, he could not give leave either to his son or to his
friend to do the same. He should like to ask the Royal
Duke who sits'on the cross bench (the Duke of Cum-
berland), and from whom he anticipated his opposition,
if be were aware that the first time be went to shoot,
and be (Lord Wharncliffe) should give evidence against
him, be would have to pay the penalty ? If that illus-
trious individual should go to amuse himself into one of
his Royal Brother's manors, he would become liable to
a heavy penalty, yet his son might do so with impunity;
but if any thing happened to the Illustrious Duke, and
his son should step into his shoes, he would be in the
same manner liable • mid if that illustrious indi-
'ideas /Loyal Brother bad a Scotch Peer, or any other,
at his Palace, not haviig landed property in the coun-
try, and that person should amuse himself sporting, he
would become liable to a penalty. This he looked upon'
as a childish mode of legislation; and how he, having
landed property, would be permitted to shoot when the
same privilege was denied his son, or how the son of
the illustrious individual to whom be had alluded might
shoot, but not the illustrious person himself, he could
not account for on any rational or good grounds. If,
indeed, they were to go back to the time of their ances-
tors, the old Barons, they might justify such a measure;
but such times were now past, and they made laws as
they did houses, for their own comfort, and suited to
the state of society. Then, he would say, allow the
game ,to be sold, and extend the qualification to proper
persons. He did not wish that every person should be
allowed to sell game; he thought it proper that they
should be under the necessity of paying a tax of three
guineas and a half, and requiring a certificate to qualify
them. He thought by what he had suggested that the
Lord of the Manor, instead of being injured by such a
measure, would be very much benefitted. The wet
objection that would be made against the system be re-
commended was, that of small landowners being enti•
tied to the same privilege as others. He should nor,
however, have any great objection to an alteration
in the' particular, and, if really there was a great ob-
jection to that part of the subject, he would not hesitate,
but be ready, to extend the principle of the measure.—
But the objection of which he was most afraid was, that
this alteration of the game laws would tend to the
destruction of foxes. Fox hooting he, however. begged
their Lordships to recollect, was now carried on by a
compromise. Every fox bunter was, in fact, a tres-
passer. And he would ask their Lordships it they did
not believe that many game preservers were destroyers
of foxes? He should be sorry to do any thing to the
injury of fox hunting, but he did not think this Bail
would have this effect. As the law now stood the
smaller proprietors, who were not permitted to have
any interest in the game. had an interest in destroying
it; and in many instances be knew they did destroy it
by poison. If fox-hunting required protection he would
rather extend it by a penalty against killing I.zes in
any other way than by bunting. than by preserving a
code of laws in other respects so productive of mischief.
He had now stated the arguments in support of his
measure, and bad adverted to the chief objections
against it. He left it in their Lordships hands, who
must be conscious that the eyes of the country were opal
them. The other House of Parliament had shown a
disposition to concur with them in any practicable mea-
sure. He was determined to persevere; and a recent
example had shown them that perseverance must
eventually prevail when the sense of the country was
in favour of the measure proposed. He implored them
to reflect upon the situation in which they left the coun-
try if they rejected the measure.
The Earl of MALMESBURY would imitate the
perseverance of his Noble Friend, and resist this Bill.
Other causes existed for the increase of crime indepen-
dent of the game laws. Let their Lordships look at
the recent stirement of the Right Hon. Secretary of
State for the Home Department, that annually one
person in three hundred and eighty was committed t,
prison in the metropolis for some crime. He had
looked to the returns for Middlesex. and found that its
the last year only four persons had been committed to
poaching. The increase of crimes in Middlesex was
tr.m fifteen to twenty-five. and with this poaching
could have nothing to do. Neither did he ascribe
incites* to the state of the law., but to the *am of cm-

044-;L44_

:4'4'Y/:

Palo Salm/asp:qr.

ployment, and to the facility of conveyance So great
was the facility of conveyance. that he ventured to say
a cock pheasant killed in his Noble Fiend's woods on
the Saturday would be devoured by an Alderman in
London on the Monday. The increase of persons and
of game also notoriously led to the increase of poach-
ing. The cheapness of spirits and the ii.creased con-
sumption was another cause which applied to poaching
as well as other crimes. He did not see that there was
any thing more demoralizing in the pheasants and par-
tridges in the country than in the bandanna pocket
handkerchief. a corner of which might peep soot of his
Noble Friend's pocket as he walked down St. James's-
street. With respect to the sale of game he was not
prepared to support the measure; yet he had a ratifi-
cation, io common with many other Noble Lords, in
letting his friends know that he had not forgotten them.
by making them a present of game greater than becould
derive from selling his game at half-a-crown or Ss.
a bead. This was, however. a matter of taste and feel-
ing. and as a temporary experiment be should not have
objected to ibis part of the Bill; bit his Noble Friend
bad combined it with a change in the law of qualifies.
lion to which he could not agree In his Noble Friend's
Bill there were the materials of two Bills, which bad
much better have been kept separate. He had obtained
a return from-the clerk of -the -peace of she county of
Southampton, from which it appeared that the number
of commitments for theism three years in that county
had increased scarcely at all for the crime of poaching.
hue very considerably for the crimes of deer stealing"
Ash poaching, and poultry stealing; all of which arts-
elm, as their Lordships knew, were saleable. His ob-
'action to the alteration of the qualification was, that
st tended to destroy the amusement of the country Gen-
thrown. His Noble Frieod's Bill did not stand upon any
principle, for if it passed, the owner of property under
11P acres would then have reason to complain. The
system proposed would create a new class of game pre-
servers, consisting of men who preserved it merely as
a trading speculation. It would put a stop to sporting
upon sufferance as a matter of favour ;it would ren-
der game preserving a matter of business; and with-
draw the farmers. particularly apes Church pro-
perty and property belonging to females. how their
proper avocations, for the sake of preserving game,
apprehending poachers. and warning trespassers, with
the view of letting the privilege of shooting to the
highest bidder. He was foe these reasons disposed to
leave to the country Gentlemen the bonus of the game
laws as en inducement to reside upon the estates of
their ancestors. From the period of the fall of man the
desire of bunting theferat nature had been strongly
implanted in the human race. It was a wholesome and
healthy amusement. Country Gentlemen must have
some amusement of this kind. They could not be ex-
pected to be seen roaming about their fields and poring
over Aristotle. He hoped their Lordships would deli.
berate seriously upon the nsbject before they gave their
mmetioa to any new pnaciple.
The Bad of CABNARVON supported the Bill, on
the grated that the present state of the law presented
to Juries a temptation which they could trot resist to
permit the escape of It gave rise to perjury.
• visitor from London could not under this Bill par.
chase the right of shooting, and set the landed interest
of the country at defiance. He most be a crial.fied
man before he could have the right to shot t at all._
Would their Lordships refuse to go into the Committee
upon a Bill for the purpose of amending the law which
OM tempted Juries and Magistrates to habitual viola.
does of their duty. and upon a Bill which had already
received the unanimous concurrence of the House of
Commas? If they bad a due regard to the morals of
the country. it was impossible that they could do an.
By giving .a free and legal market for game they would
lessen the temptation to crime. and they would give to
all parties connected with the land an interest in the
preservation of game. He was prepared to concur in
every word of the Bill as it now stood; but he was not
averse to agree to any amendments that might be pro.
posed wh,ch did not violate the principle and de:tioy
the efficiency of the measure. He, therefore, trusted
their Lordships would consent to go into a Committee.
The Marquis of LONDONDERRY sold, if be thought that the
Hasse going Into Committee on this Rill mold produce say boos&
ebd result% be would, of course, vete for it ; but as, front what
rook place last year. he conceived no good meld result from such a
course. be should oppose the second reading of the Bill. The ex-
periment of legalising the sale of game Lad been tried la Chrinany,
where poaching had been as extensive as ever.
The House then divided, strangers having been marmite with.
draw, when the numbers appeared.—
Fes the seeood reading of the BM,
Contents
Prozies

20
Ition.m s-72otents . . . et
Pretties • 27
—29
Majority for the second reading to
The BiII was then read is second time, end ordered to be ease
mined as Friday. The House odjoarned at Her P-3Ut 'Ma
HOUSE OF COMMONS.
The Report of Committee on the Leaden Bridge Bin woe
brought up by Mr. Alderman Woos, and teesived. Ilse BM was
ordered to be engrossed.
Mr. PROTHEROR presented Reddens, preying that the day
of holding the cattle market hi linsithield might be cheesed from
Monday to Tuesday. The Petitions Calf front St. Jaime's, Ow
Itenwell, from Harrow and another parish, and wete referred to
the Committee open di re
e
Mr. GORDON took that of ortunity of reetimmendeg Alb
subject to the mottles of his Majesty's Miaow& He wasofspl.
ision that nothing timid owe the evils at proem mileting but the
total removal of the mule market from its present situation. •
Mr. LINDSAY presented Petitions from the Provost. Town
Council and schen; of Perth, Jedborgh, and other places in Seas
had, against the Scold Gaols BA—Ordered to be referred to the
Consmittee on the Bill.

Mr. W. PEEL promoted an scan= of the number of ppee
in the Co.--ba of the Peace is England and W
to lie upon the table.
HOSKISSON presented a Padden from the Mebane, el
Great awl Little Bolton complaining of the distress prevalent mum
the labouring dames, sod sttriboriog it in some unessin to the
custom of paying a ponies of the Mowers' wages lo goods =mead
of wooer ; alma petition from Liverpool complaining es demount
of the pour rates.
WODEHOUSE mooed that there be laid before the Hesse
acconste et the somber of bushels of mak, and st barrels of beer,
on which duty had been paid foe emu= periods aiding the Atli of
toast—Agreed to.
Ur. WYVI LL reissued a Petition from the dty of Ye& pray-
ing for the misdeed= et new= deem is the West Litass.-.01.
dried to be laid up= the table.
Sir H. H A RHINOS brought ln a OW ler pre mien he the
pay. clothing. ace. the eta, of the disembodied. Irish Hada,
which was read a ilist time, =I sedum/ tir to nods mood time
ea Friday sqm,
Mr. CORBETT pneented a 'Padden front cereals Primer
Societies of Shrewebory egoista the 'deadly Seeletia Bin -.Or-
dered to =printed.
Mr. S. EWE moved that there be laid before the Hone so.
counts of the mem et Grant Jury reentaimats In. 'Mead