Star.
London, England, 1816-03-30 00:00:00

TREASURY EXPIMII%.

Mr. TIERNEY said that the House, on his mo-
tion, had stone time ago ordered an account to be
laid before it of the distribution of the sum et £BOOO
tor the contingent charges of the Lords of the Tree-
tut y. He expressed the utmost surprize that this
accourt had not yet been presented, as he could con-
ceive no jog cause for the delay. If the account
was not to be presented this ni6ht, he should 6nd it
his duty to submit, a mottos' to the House on the
subject.
Mr. LUSHINGTON said, that the reason of the
delay was, that the explanatory paper which it was
necessary to present along with the account could
not be drawn up in a short time. The Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman might rely upon this, that the
sccowit would be laid before the House as soon as
TIERNEY said it was a strange thing to de-
tam the Hume for explanatory papers. No papers
weie wanted but 'hue which had been ordered.

Mr. LUSHINGTON.—It was difficult to draw
up the paper in a short time on account of the nature
of the expenses.
Mt. TIERNEY was resolved to- move that the
papers be produced forthwith. This web a question
ilot to be trilled with. He knew there were causes
which made the Right Honourable Gentleman .. op.
pus,ite unwilling to leave the subject brought before
tht House, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer
must Kowa- very wyli whit he meant by saying-this.
It might require all that Right Honourable Gentle-
&Mao tritczrity of ClielLaCler LQ CUQVIUCC the House

that there was not something wrong at the bottom .
of this.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said he knew how every part of that sem of money
had been expended, and there was not a single trins-
action iu his official life which he was more ready to
explain-( Hear, hear.)
Mr. PONSONDY said it was a most eitraordinary
thing for the officer whose duty it more Particularly
was to see that the papers in question were produced
in proper time, should say to the House they were
kept back other explanatory papers were ready.
This was something perfectly new in Parliament—
(Hear, hear).—He appealed to the Chair,. whether
it WAS not a new thing to presume to keep: back
papers in such a way.? Ile took this opportunity of
noticing'the delay in producing papers from Scotland.
When this had befo:e been complained of, di,tance
was urged as the reason for delay. But as the Mail'
arrived in Scotland on the third day, surely ten days
was sufficient time to allow, after the order for the
production of the papers was issued. Scotland was,
talked of as if it were as far off as Canada. If there
were any particular circumstances in the case, which
rendered it impossible to comply with the order of
the House within the ordinary time, it Was a duty to
state it to the House.
Mr. LUSH INGTON said, that as to the papers
ordered from Scotland, he expected to receive them
to-morrow morning, and they would be laid before
the House as soon as possible. With respect to the
observations of the Right Honourable Gentleman on
the delay in producing the other papers, he would
.isk, whether, in common fairness, there was any
thing to deserve them ?
After a few words from Mr. BENNETT and Mr
METHUEN, in reprobation of the delay in producing
papers ordered by the House,
Mr. TIERNEY moved, that the above.mentioned
account be produced forthwith. The Motion was
agreed to.
Lord PALMERSTON presented a Return of the
number and expenses of the Gener-il and Staff 'Of&
cers on service; also of the expenses of the Waggon
Train.—Ordered tq lie on the Table, and to be
printed.
OFFICE ne POST•SIASTER-GENERAL. •
Mr. BROUGHAM begged to know from the
Right Honourable Gentleman 'opposite, whether
Lord Clancarty, during the time that he held the
office of Post-Master General, had ever attended at
the Post-Office, or transacted any of the business of
that department ?
No answer was given to this question.
Mr. BROUGHA M soon after rose and said, that
as no answer had been given to his question, he Would
move, That there be laid before the House a re-
turn of the number of days that Lord Clanearty had
attended at the Post-Office as Post-Mastei General,
and of the number At papers officially signed by him ;
also, the date of his appointment to that office, toge-
ther with the amount of salary that had been paid to
him during the time that he had held it."

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
said, that the Honourable and Leal tied Gentleman
who submitted this motion, very well knew that it
was not usual for the Pusl•Master General to take
any share in the transaction of the business of that
Department. The same return might be moved for
as to the other Post. Master General, or as to the
Pay-Master General. Th.: only object of the motion
in this instance seemed to be, to obtain an answer to
the question which the Honourable and Learned
Gentleman had put : therefore he would state in an-
swer, that the Noble Lord alluded to had never at-
tended officially. After this statement, he hoped the
Honourable Gentleman would withelraw his motion.
He concluded by moving the previous question.
Lord CASTLEREAGH wished the House to
understand, that the Nohle Lord alluded to had re-
ceived no emolument whatever for his services on the
Continent—(ilear, hear).—He had continued these
services for a long time, and by the ability with which
he had executed them, had mainly contributed to
those arrangements with respect to Holland which the
country had hailed with so much satisfaction. Only
the mere actual expenses of his mission had been de-
-1 fraye,l, and the Noble Lord personally had not re-
ceived any remuneration whatever ; but had taken
gratuitously upon If.mself the duties of an arduous
and highly respo..sible situation—(llear, hear.)
Mr. LAW understood, from the very best private
authority, that Lord Clancarty bad been allowed for
the expenses of his mission only the excess of those
expenses over and above his private means—(Hear).
Mr. ROSE bore testimony that he had never known
a man mere zealous and eager in the discharge of his
'public duties than the Noble Lord in question. If
such a return was made to the House as that moved
for, it might only state, that the Noble Lord had at.
tended a certain number of times, whereas he might,,
have been actually employed in the discharge of his
duties without attending at the Post Office, and when
the merely official details were transacted by a clerk.
Mr. BROUGHAM said that nothing could' be
more sativactory than the explanation which had
been made in consequence of his motion ; they were
much more satisfactory than if his motion had been
,agreed to. He meant nothing invidious against Lord
Clancarty ; an exposition as to the nature of the of-
fice which he held, was all that he wished. It
seemed to him the utmost extravagance to spewd the
public money on salaries for offices to which no du-
ties were attached. In the case now before the House
Abe individual who held the office was abroad dis-
charging other duties, so that it was impossible that
he could perform any service to the public, in an
office for which he he a large salary. The state-
ments of the Noble Lord opposite, and the Honotir.
able Gentleman (Mr. Law), as to the way in which
the expenses of Lord Clancarty': mission had been
paid, were very different ; but he was convinced that
the Noble Lord's statement was the correct one, and
that Lord Clancarty would rather have all the ex•
penses of his mission paid, su that the public might
have the benefit of his Lordship's abilities and nego-
ciations for nothing—which, in the case of such an
arrangement of a foreign mission, might perhaps be
overpaid and in other cases under-paid—(A huigh.)
The safest bargain that a foreign Minister could
make was to have a carte blanche for sending-his bills
to the Treasury. It appeared that Lord Clancarty's
whole expenses had been paid, so that in this respect
he was as well off as any other foreign Minister. As
to the office of Postmaster General it was quite evi-
dent that it was one of those which the House, in

ruirrimennt of its pledge to retrench every sopetfitous
expense, ought to abolish entirely.
Lord CASTLEREAGH.—The case of: Lord
Clancarty's missioa was the same as all the others
celled " special missidns," in which it had always
heeniuscral to pay all the expenses except those of a
personal .nature. The Honourable Gemlorian op-
p,)-:te represented Lord Clancarty as, enjoying his s
Lary. as Postmaster General while abroad, and when
it was impossible for him to transact any other of
the duties of that office. But it was to be recoLected
chat the labour of that Noble Lord while abroad had
been, as great or greater than they could rWher wise
have been. The attendance at the Post Office was
no criterion- by which to judge of the business done
by the Postmaster General, as it was not at the office
that the duties of his office were to be performed.
But Lord Clancarty, at the same time that he was
Postmaster General, bald a situation in the Board of
Trade, to which a most trifling salary was attached ;
one totally inideqnate to the laborious and responsible
swore the office. It was impossible that the du-
ties of the Noble Lord's office ire the Board of Trade
could be discharged without a salary ey.liti to that of
the Postmaster General.

Mr. BARING felt it his duty to say, that no per.
son bad ever filled the situation held by Lord Clan-
carry, in the Board of Trade, who performed the
duties with so much ability, or gave such general
satisfaction. But at the same time it WAS better to
attach a proper salary to off ties, the duties of which
were imp.irtant.
Mr. BROUGHAM objected to the system of re-
munerating persons who held responsible offices, by
giving them other offices in which they had no du-
Jim to perform, but received a large salary. He
would withdraw his motion.

Mr. B4THURST said, that since Mr. Burke's
Bill had passed, there was no other way of remune-
rating persons in such situations unless Parliament
would increase the salaries attached to those situa•
tions to an amount adequate to the labour and re-
sponsibility required in thton.
Sir J. NEW PORT thought it extremely proper,
that Parliament should increase the salaries of useful
officers to a proper amount, and totally abolish those
that were useless. The sooner they proceeded to do
this the better. The motion was then withdrawn.