Star.
London, England, 1827-05-18 00:00:00

His Lordship concluded by aiologilling for trespassing beat a single clueatino on
on their liprdshiptitildelliNtlsii,fleclaration of his stn. Noble Lords who hens lately
Is
, at all crime, one pointr
tistsepts, and Isoped by io doing At was not out of order . .
.steice our ease is the seine.
12A1 ‘I9E DUNSTANVILLE saw no reason for Ndble koids, so suddeoly
:withholding his confidence from the present Ministy. chid Goveenowet, at ho will
With regard to the question of Catholic emancipatidh, 1011
show tclit
hta I thhealt we
reasonsisa•\
be thought that the Protestant religion would gain more fore opposed thatm
Govrnment,
by concession than by opposing the claims of the Ca. The Noble Earl (Aberdeen) who spoke trot but one, .
tholics—that MOTO converts would be made by emanci. ground of withdrawal to be the opinions he entertains upon the,
Catholic Question, although that same Noble Lerd declares that
potion than by any other means. the present Administration Is formed upon the principles of Lorsit
The Earls of ASIZOILIN and AZINGOON rose at the same moment. Liverpool's Administration. My Lords, I hold that such is noel
'The former was loudly called for, and, after a abort pause, the latter the fact ; My Lords, I hold that Rae present Administration is set'
Rave way. formed upon the principles of the Administration of Lord Liver.
The Earl of ABERDEEN said, he could not avoid pool—(Hear, hear! from the Opposition). I say this, my Lords,
making a few observations, when he considered the and I add, that the present Administration does not bold out the
strange state in which the Catholic Question remained. roaveprletasnrihticshatizt ofdLoird
iLiverpool eid hold ctNoble— (lLords)l I
co e
earr :inset stated, dt,hbe
the
He could assure their Lordships that he belonged to no "
have lately quitted the Government, tthose
leading principlew of
opposition, factious or otherwise; but he conceived it that Noble Lord's Administration was, that a person inimical tw
to be the duty of one who had supported the former the Catholic Claims Should 1711 at the headbave beadr this,
Government to declare the motives by which he was I say, distinctly declared its this House. Now, one of hins
nfotaeheirs the
wl Ifeoardniinegd,p3rhindeiopeleerof
which
actuated in refusing his full and entire confidence to a risen Administration reettfeanctwhich
aathoecivarlo
Government which was professedly formed on the he so long presided? One Noble Lordstated,p as his motive for re.
principles of the Earl of Liverpool. Many, it was said, signing from the Government—let me not be understood as at:
- were influenced in their opposition by feelings of per- reigning the motives of that Noble Lord, or those of any who have
pleased veith the ciiircunds;
stance
eweiittho hint--er pteorlhiea pith fella nadtooremtuncehux
moat hostility ; but those feelings he most unequivo.impute t I
tally disclaimed, though, perhaps, he ought to be now to them aughtg
clblame, or any degree
doubtegt for a moment, that he ormtheo
in opposition, since he had before uniformly supported did right to resign—but, I say, that that Noble Lord did state as
Lord Liverpool's Administration, follbwing the example one of the chief reasons for so acting, that when this leading prim
eiple was departed Irons, the principles of Lord Liverpool's Admi Ma-
of some Noble Lends who had uniformly opposed, and
tration
i werew
wail nos
aotwannehn dw.hThethiselr
ihourthe
true,
dr
whether
it be
eanndototvreureagiant
were now on the Ministerial side. He had heard a
great deal about a coalition having taken place, but he , the leading principle of that Administration was, that the person at
apprehended there was a great mistake upon the sub- the head of it should be inimical to the question of Catholic
jeCt. No coalition, in the proper sense of the word, tEnhtaaHncipatiohn ?
stated Aliohble Lttord, whoof has been recently called to
no il uch pritnd e
ci tee
t. e
; bn
had taken place. Coalition means the union of two surely, thatterei caan be net dotubte tlittante" sucha principle did
parties upon equal terms; but, in this case, nothing of if this principle were not communicated to those iodiaiduals who
the kind had taken place. It might be called accession or were avowedly Friendly to that question, I must say, that they
have not been dealt fairly with. This, however, nay Lords, ap-
adhesion, but coalition it was not. It was made merelytholutsel amcatledup
woontords wiryaccount
I give m
whylsitat
upon the same principle as that of any individual No. iehiase sideears h
of t clear,
ti r, in other
ble Lord. It was said that the Right Hon. Gentle- support to the present Administration? To this qustion,•then, 1
man at the head of the Goveinment.proposed to found give this answer: I sit here to support the present Administra-
his Administration upon the principles of Mr.-Pitt. It doe, because its most points I agree in opinion with those who
time,flohrmeeeit.eon'otties..Loeihlldsetaeteen,thnuttdathottlhiestsadetremuf
was also said that much of the opposition to his Gonro• t t will
ctta„" yantslital
went arose from feelings of a personal nature; perhaps it have compared the consequences of our taking ourp tuts here,
might be so ; but it would seem strange to him, from with the consequences of our remaining on the other side of the
what he knew of the Members of the Administration, House. Now, let us in this way try the Catholic Question—the
glreatquestion,atw h hie hochbot
rc armedthsi precisely of the persona es
.declarei them-el .ea atn tw
issueho.
ifwhom
it was so. Nobody who was acquainted with a f this Government
Noble Marquis opposite, (Lansdown,) and of his I would (if I bad been called upon eoc to do) have
recommended
era
powers of rendering himself useful as a servant of the to my Sovereign as the most fit and.proper persons to form it,
per- let me consider the consequences of this Government being over-
turned, and and tnhdoitle thhaetdwoulhd follow them—the establishment in
sonal objections to him. It had been este. ted, that the
flair
powicrealssiifoof
haapeearthyeettot
Government was provisional. He thought that more which)
Lecluaring the wholewt
couttrisuemtifb
importance had been given to that circumstance than opposed, have been continually deprecating, and whose existence
it deserved ; for, surely, if it happ. ned to please his I have never ceased to lament. Tbis, then, is the true state of the
cafse. Iti Is on this principle, then, that we ground our assertions
Majesty to appoint a Goveinment to act for a limited
yv.antßaget, at
jt the e ,ante
dignitytime,
time, it was not for them to quarrel with his Majesty no 7rearnade:horat ittoisthoef
of IP"arlilitanstaet
for so exercising his prerogative. Notwithstanding. reputations of public men, to be stating their political faith,
however, all that he had said, he must declare, that without bringing Parliament ar once to decide the question—
rhether or not the in ijority of the House do place conhdence in
there wet e circumstances which compelled him to re-
Administration? Noble Lords on the other side of the
fuse that entire confidence to the Administration which the
i present
ouse have complained of haling been called a " factious Qppo.
lie would wish to have been able to bestow. One of 'Won." Perhaps when they have a little longer retained their
those circumstances which he alluded to, was, the seats there, they will not feel so very sore upon this or upon any
condition in which the Catholic Question was placed t other epithet; but I, for one, am ready, if I have ever made use
,f
—a question of vital and paramount importance. mint the
d,in
phrase,
ueno retract it. I
inseethnettor heionugdu'e't f.acetlitohuosu•—h II
epee::
—lt was not attempted to be denied that a specific tainly do see something of impatience in their mannesg. If the
engagement had been entered into, that the Catho- Noble Earl (we believe, Westmorland) who wears the Blue
Ribbon, and sits opposite, will allow me. I will quote from a
lie Question was not to be a Cabinet Question.—
speechwhich chat
hhillhe
It was, therefore, cllficult to state what was tocalci:riM7llddeeelteerwhsecitmae
tterwepotry reatrfst.siegto,r in.
become of it now that a majority in favour of it did but as his alteration will better answer nay object than theooyri!
cettainly exist in the Cabinet, and the whole of that gent. 1 will adopt it according to the alteration be so made.—
Twdenty
map: ity maintaining that it was a most urgent wad years age—it is more than twenty, I believe between et.s
tt.tihat speech,
w thweerNeoblentcertain aeilnl
thecountry,
tn ed
important measure, the postponement of which was ex- "in which Earllona describede tumena ca
tremely diffirulr. Yet it was unquestionable, that the to women. It so happened, in the course of this transfurruation.
measure was practically postponed, and its success that the maids of honour were changed to officers of dragoons, and
more doubtful titan ever. There was another point to the officers of durum to maids of honour. These officers of rho-
which he wished to allude, and it was a verrdelicate gwns' who were s° transformed to maids of honour, were certainly,
at first, somewhat cringe and awkward—made, at times, very
one. He referred to the report of a speech made by a WirlO strides—deflieatled IIwISIICIVeS vow and then, rather in-
Right Rev. Ft lend 01 his some time ago. and addressed decorously—and, now and then, perhaps, an oath or two might
to the Clergy of his Di-. That repot t, he had tea- "cape ; but, in the end, after the lapse of a month or two, they
cbeorereme
ect aysearn in
very
decorous
declriousy c noluaritdsor
.honourrd indeed, and attnhd
respect
seemlyto
the
and
son to know, was substartially cot rect, and, if so, the
Speech furnished arguments against the speedy success maids of honour who became officers of dragoons, tin. caPase was dif.
of the Catholic Question. How, then, were these argu- ferent altogether. 'They became a brawling, quarrelling, outrageous
mews to be considered, whether as coming, or not set, who were all day swearing and drinking, and breaking the
coming, oust-, r the knowledge of the present Adminis-
headsof all who came in their way, insomuch, that such a set of dho-
ti ation, and were they responsible for them? The speech, toys,orderlyunptieirtsohen
ys weerm.de
en ervtote r allsewn—headingan d the
we
eliet t
el ee
tuaii
y blackguardgot og
be it retnembeied, had been made on an occasion which to set it on fire. Now, my Lords, having quoted for you this story
gave it the character of great solemnity. lie would from the Noble Earl's speech,l do not pretume to say that this sort,
ask the Right Reverend Prelates, if they did not cifh change has, in any degree, revived. As to the Noble Lords who
thaovsee
wquittedhich
theythe hu Government,dso ton held,
ilidd nowsa holdtheir
beenseats osy opositeeerto
intend to suppose the new A dministi ation, mainly
in consequence of the arguments of his Right Rev. citing that right, which as Peels and asy they Free havemen they possessed;c
Friend, and if they did not at this moment feel that and my only wish is, that they wouei bring some specific and dis-
the danger of carrying this question was more remote tines question before your Lordships, instead of acting in a manner
than under Lord Liverpool's Administration? How, di:Sera:hoer ye to
characters el- House,
s
ooutse,
hitilijsillo U 4 tob the country,l and tendingh to
then, was this to Le reconciled? Was it a kind of Je. opinion, and upon that coatis men,ttpitt,ymitipet
ucupdantiotghttr
pnrintettsplme
and
suitical pol;cy, to sanctify the means for the sake of the upon that principle, and so on without end. How are we to know
end ? But it was, probably, a fottunate thing for the how to act, if they never bring forward a direct question, on which,
men might honourably differ, or honourab y agree? I ask this,
present Administration that the Rev. Prelates supported because, as I have taken my seat on this side of the House, I
it, on the ground that the question was its no danger am asked what opinion have I altered, what principle bave I
of being carried, while the Noble Lords opposite sup- given up? I answer, nose I have altered nu opinion, 1 have gives
ported it, in the anticipation of its speedy success. He up no principle. lily Lords, this is not the first time my seat has
been on this side of the Ileum.. My Lords, this is not the Ara
confessed, therefore, that he considered the present state time I have given my support to a Ministry in whichi feel I moleit
. of things was hot so plain; so honest, or $0 congenial to place confidence. When 1 last sa• here' it was under an Atimini►
the feelings of the people of this country, as to entitle tration, composed chiefly of Individuals favourable to the Catholic'
the present Administration to their confidence. As to Claims; that Administration was formed in the hope,
that by lenient
the Catholic Question use& he attached little import. measures, and by prudent conduct, it might be enabled to keep that
. ante to it, in comparison to the more important cir- chargedc' ues o
wfOirthsiutiroensaistt
ereSucty.
furl
sollatdolh.earge; then,ehauaig tlhenthein wfealst,str:
cumstance, that public charac.ers should be fair, sip- strongly as I now do, the weight and the importance of that ques.
right, and without blemish; and he, therefore, felt it don, and the policy sod the necessity of its being carried; and, at
his duty to state, that he could not give to the Admi- that time, there was nothing which I would Dot have done, io the
'by supporting those wh
-- • the support of this question, House or out of the Clouse, to carry it. lam asked, do I forward
nitration, as it was at ptesent formed, his confidence
Or support. warm and conwitutional advocates? My Lords, the answer is oh-
The Earl of ABINGDON said, that all his life he loom. Ito easy to say, that the late Administration was formed on
had been a supporter of tegular Governments, and had principles dilater to the present ; but with reference to this question,
posses,ed feelings of loyalty and attachment to the as
lmost
hoiwt aasildedhdedly not the case. Upon all other questions, or at least
Constitution in Church and State, as by law established; I believe, wotithterhqtuheestlieTtssa lorh7e agreed with Lordon tvieerpouoel.,ttandon i
believing, that to such p, inciples, the country owed its I have not twice divided. Musty. clatTencalscasteulptight Hon.g Geed:-
greatness, its peace, and its prosperity. He could not, man, who Is now at the head of his Majesty's Government—and'
who has been pursuing that course with reference to commerce, to
thereto, e, with those feelings, join or support a Govern- foreign policy, to the intercourse with South America, of which I
anent, of whose principles he could never approve. have always approved, aml:do entirely approve—to form all his prim.
Lord HOLLAND rose and said—My Lords, it has always been eieies exactly corresponding with mine? Must I say to him, do yea
my endeavour, inn the discharge of nay public duty in this House, think so and so upon this or that point, and so and so upon that
although, perhaps, it has not always been my lot, strictly to prat- and this? Why, my Lords, in this way the differences between
tine it, to confine my observations to the subject immediately under men would be eternal, and every union be but a rope of sand,
discussion; or, at least, to the topics directly in connexion with h, or like that described by the Noble Lords opposite, who had no kiud
But that just and proper practice has been so much infringed upon of conceit in their acts of resignation. I agree with the Noble
--that salutary custom of all deliberative assemblies has been so Earl (Westmorland) who lately held the Privy Seal, in respecting;
much departed from—in this House, during the proceedinrshat that *acted right to resign, which he kept dormant in his breast foe
have here taken place since the recent recess, by Noble Lords en. nearly forty years; but I wish that the Noble Earl would apply
tering into mattes I totally irrelevant, upon questions and motions, that right of thinking and acting for himself, to those from whom
of any nature whatsoever; thus stamping their opinions not upon he has appeared anxious to withhold it. And now, my Lords,
general principles, that could lead to any decision, but making pro. , with respect to the present Administration, and those who, like
fusions of their political faith, and exhibiting professions of the DIME, have taken our seats here to support it, I will ask on what
political faith of the various individuals who now compose his lila- subject do we disagree? Surely not upon the question with re-
jesty's Government, together with that of almost every individual, (mote to our foreign policy; but, I am told, that the Noble sett.
who either supports it, or opposes it—that, perhaps, I may catch a ders--I know not how otherwise to describe them cn moue—
little of the same style, by so often coming in contact with them, or, have had their share in the merit of this foreign policy, acid that
perhaps, I may feel myself compelled to address to you tome obser- they ought to be applauded for it,-u well as the Right Honourable
?slims of the same sort. I have been put, as it were, upon my trial— ' Gentleman. This has been said, and, therefore, that it is impos-
sloe es to the opinion I profess, not as to the sentiments I entertain, Bible to deny ; but when I consider the Corn Laws, the commer-
not as to the manner in which I mean to vote—but as to the seat cial system, the questions with reference to the South American
which I now occupy in this House. I have been called upon to States, and our relations with Foreign Powers, and compare
say why I have charged that sear, and called upon to answer the their present state with what they were before the Eight Hon.
question, be it remembered, by individuals who have themselves Gentleman took the important dace which he recently held, I coo-
acted In the same manner; ',I have changed my seat, so have they fess, I canoesfor my life believe, that all the changes would have
changed theirs.-and, I believe, though I have disagreed with those happened without the interference sf the Eight Hon. Gentleman,.
individuals in every thing else—foe Ido not think there has ever Or that, if he had not been there, the Noble Lords who acted aWI

Cause ? —akar, hear, flan tstoont Godatich
He also wished to know what security the N
Baron (11011 old) had taken, for the conipletion of
his views ? W4ss the Mint a security? Wete the
Woods and Forests a security? The Whigs, as a
party, were annihilated. The very name was gone—that
name connected with all the Nobility and the service/
of the .Noble Lord's ancestors was annihilated. The
Whigs might have had errors, but they were a great
land mark for the country to look to in time of ditS,
Guides. Their extinction bad been accomplished by a
prostration of personal dignity on the part of their
leaders, unexampled in the history of the country. And
they had sacrificed their dignity and usefulness without
taking one security whatever. Tne Noble Lord then
blamed the system of adulation adopted by the whia.e
to yards Mr. Canning during the last three years, an,
the art with which his conduct was always contrasted
with that of his Colleagues. He conceived that t
eloquent speech of a Noble Earl the other night (E 45,
Gtey) had swept sway all the grounds On which .
Whigs had joined that Right Honourable Gentlem,
with the exception perhaps of the half ground of
ligious liberty. He thought that instead of a pris,
intimation sent to that individual, of their being read)
to support him, that intimation ought to have been
given in Parliament; and he objected to the is: inciC
Id effective leaders not holding respinsible offices as
unconstitutional practice. He should take eve, y o,ipos.
tuni y of holding the whole coalition to public indigna.
tion. The Noble Lord and the Noble Marquis had gone
over, thinking that if they did not, an Administration
could not have been formed. He was convinced, on -'
contrary, that if they had remained, an Adminivrati
would have been foliated much mole consment

personal -_
holding confidence from a Government, of which these individuals
form a part; but it is too hard to say, that those who have confidence
such individuals, and who therefore support them, do not act
with consistency. But there is another point to be considered.—
This kind of discussion as to the political creeds of various in-
dividuals, naturally lead to recrimination ; soil I believe that
no political Man can be long dealt with in this way, without
finding it a practice injurious as muck to one party as to the
other, and which I, therefore, take to be extremely inconvenient
and impolitic. Thos I must remindshe Noble Duke (of New-'
castle), who expressed himself, as considering a certain indivi.]
deals as the most profligate Minister" he had ever heard of,
of the somewhat Itrecuncilable fact of his having. for a tons
period of time, supported a Government, of which that very indl.l
vidual was so distinguished a member, who bad the Foreign De.
payment placed solely under his controul, and who guided mod
led the other House of Parliament. Yet to the Government, of
which this individual termed a part, the Noble Duke bail long
his—l will not say esrdial—support, because I believe that*.
Noble seceders have been foe sonic time bu: lukewartn admire* 1
Lord Liverpool's Administration. But the measures introduced tie
supported by that Right Ilan. Gentleman are precisely the men.
sores to which I, and to which my Noble Friends near me, have
given our constant support. I only say then, that I cannot see how
the Noble Locals opposite can accuse us of incousistency, or of coal.
mitring a fault, in supporting an Administration, by which we shalt
better promote the success of, at least, one vital question, than b
withdrawing ourselves from it, and continuing with a Giver
avowedly and decidedly hostile to it. It can hardly be said, that
inconsistent, because I support the itight Hon. Gentleman, wliblti
the friend, and surrounded as he is by friends, to the questherpt,
Catholic Emancipation ;although I withheld my support, I deny %hag
I ever did it factiously—tb the late Government, at the bead of
which, surrounded by the enemies of that question, was the Earl of
Liverpool, a most eloquent and most successful opposer. Hut, my
Lord, there are many other topics on which I agree with the Hight
lion. Gentleman—on all topics I certainly do not agree wish bins—
there is one which, whether acting with Ministers, or in opposition
to them, and let me sit where I will, to which my strenuous support
shall be.always given-1 mean the repeal of the Test and Corpora.
thin Acts—but k happens that this question has never been pro-
posed in this Home, at least not in my time. Now, my Lords,
when I see in this Flour so many Noble Lords, who Lipase the
memory of Mr. Pitt—far be it from me to interfere with the re-
spect they pay to his memory and hi. name—l must ask them, did
alr„ Pitt never form an Administration that was divided? Did he
erect advocate the cause of Parliamentary Reform ? Did he never
even while Chancellor of the itizcheqoer, move Parliament fur
the Abolition of the Slave Trade, while on this question
the Cabinet was divided—and which, although I believe he
might have carried it sooner than be did, 1 am sure ire sin.
cerely advocated? Yet, we never heard of his inconsistency,
although he formed a part of a divided Administration. Those
persons, then, who wish to consider Mr. Pitt as an idol, will d•
well to recollect that great measure which he was most anxious
to carry ; and which, because he could not carry, he resigned.
Then, as to the observations relative to Provisional Govern.
ments, why, Mr. Pitt himself often sat in Cabinets, and him-
self formed Cabinethowhich were avowedly but Provisional Go-
vernments. Having said so much, my Lords—and I ant sorry
to have del eyed your Lordships for so long a time—but it is ex-
tremely difficult to discuss such subjects shortly, or by any other
mode than that of a citcuitons phraseology-1 cannot help say-
ing a few words of the Noble Lords opposite, and with respect
to their motives fur resigning. My Lads, I entertain the .idea,
that all Elution's about dictating to prerogative ate niece stuff and
nonsense. If the Noble Lords think, as I presume, and take fur
granted, they do think, of the present Administration, they did per-
fectly right to resign ; but, nil Lords, I will go farther, acid say—
they must forgive me for using the expression-4 think they acted
foolishly, in nu: concerting for the purpose of resigning; and I still
consider they would be right in end ring, by every just and
constitutional means; tie combine, with a view to induce his Majesty
to reconsider the act by which he appointed the present Ministry,
and to induce him to name whet ain their stead. My Lords, I look
upon their proceedings as having been perfectly constitutional; and I
will go stilt farther, and add, that no proceeding has ever given me
such heartfelt pleasure fur years; and 1 am now ready to thabk
them for it. It is the great step to the atuonsplishment of a mea-
sure which they deprecate, but which I approve. But Noble
I.ords must not say, as one Noble Lord has already said to acme
individuals—you most oppose this Government, because this Go.
vernment, and the exclusion of the anti-Catholics, will lead to the
continuance of the sante exclusive laws, and then turn round and
say to other individuals, you must also oppose it, because this
question is abandoned; and it is quite clear that yue must do so,
bec-wie you see that the question, in which you are most deeply
interested, has ben given up. My Lords, in human affairs, we
have seldom to decide between black and white, and as seldom
between th t which we like and that which we dislike; but we
are often called upon to approve that which, in all its parts and
bearings, we do not exactly like. Such le my Me, at the present
moment. And, although there are some things in this Administer'.
uon, which I do not like altogether—(Hear, hear ! from the Oppo-
sition Benches)—My Lords, I speak always what I think; anti 1
believe if I go over to the Members of the late Government, and
compare this Government with that, I shall feel myself bound to
come to pretty nearly the same opinion. My Lords, allegiance and
obedamce are only to be given in parts ; we are out called upon to
surrender all. 1 will take this question in the gross, and say,
do I, by supporting this Administration, give say support to the
advancement of the cause of religious liberty? A Noble and
Learned Lord, fur whom—hoviever much I may differ from him
on many pujins, and, I believe, I may say I have differed from
him on all, reg tiding, as I do, his political life to have been highly
mischievous—l entertain sentiments of sincere personal regard, I
was surprised to hear given, as one of the reasons why he resigned
his impottant office, and his seat in the Cabinet, his regard for civil
and religious liberty—b:cause he thought civil and religious liberty
were likely to be destroyed by the admission of one third tithe peo-
ple of his country, to equal rights and privileges, and to an equal
share in the blessings of the Constitution. Now, I here sever heard,
since I have bad a seat in this House, any question of civil and reit•
gious liberty discussed to which that Ndble Lord has nut been op-
posed—though, probably, he will not call it opposition. And I, my
Lords, I have taken my seat at this side of the House, on purpose
Ito oppose that very species of civil and religious liberty, which he
has taken his seat at the other side of the House to support.

The Earl of WINCHELSEA did not rest ihis want
of confidence in the present Administration on the
Catholic Question alone, there were many other sub-
jects on which they could not satisfy the country. He
thanked the Noble Lord for his manly avowal that the
Government was not to be carried on on the principles
of Lord Liverpool's Administration, it shewed that the
sacrifice of character and principle had not been made
by the Whigs but by the First Lord of the Treasury.
As to personal hostility to that individual, he could
have none, as he had not his acquaintance. But he ,
openly opposed him as a Senator, and had a right to
do so. He did not think that his political life was
masked with sufficient integrity, uprightness, and con- I
sistency, to entitle him to confidence. ' He conceived
that if not openly, the influence of the Government
would be secretly exerted to carry the Catholic Ques-
tion. if it were to be done, let it be done honestly
and openly ; that the country might know what sacri-
fice it was called upon to make. To the last hour of
his life he'should raise his voice against that question.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH was astonished at the de•
gree of official soreness displayed by the Noble Lord
(Holland) at the conduct of the Opposition in raising
constant questions, as it was natural with all oppositions
to produce an impression on the public mind. Some
Noble Lords supported his Majesty's Government be-
cause it was founded on. Lord Liverpool's principles,
whilst others also supported it because it was not
founded on those principles. He wished that the Noble
Viscount opposite (Goderich) would clearly and dis•
tinctly state what was the principle of his Government,
'and whether he and his Colleagues had not entered into
an engagemerst not to use the influence which they pos.
sessed as a Government, to promote the Catholie,

their own principles and wishes; blt they could
wait. Like the departed tools in the Poet, longiN
cross the Styx.—
Stabant orantes printi transmittere carman,
Tendebantque minus rips alterioris amore.
Ills Noble Friend had not the power of negocining
he had done. He (Lord E.) had told him that he wr
_ . . .

gladly support his Administration, but could.not brio'
it to his mind to support the Administration of
Canning. The Noble Lord expressed his determina-
tion of watching every measure of Government
unceasing vigilance, and witha degree of su.picion
tified by the manner in which the Government had'
formed, and the circumstances of the country.
preponderance in the Cabinet with respect to the
lic glestion, he should prefer that it be equally balanced,
as preponderance one way or the other could only
to create undue hopes in Ireland, or unfounded ft
this country. InEugland the state of the Catholic
tion was a grievance, but in Ireland it was a maledic.
Lion. He wished to leave its settlement to the groin,
good sense of the people:
Lord HOLLAND explained.—He thought he
distinctly disclaimed the application of the term
.tious" to the Opposition which now existed. The.
Lord must have mistaken him altogether, or not
tended to• his speei.h ; for he (Lord Holland) bad
tinctly stated, that in no sense did he mean to.
term " factious" to the Opposition, of which the
Lord formed one. Tif Noble Lord had accused
of feeling " official soreness," but that such was the
'he (Lord Holland) utterly denied.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH denied that be me:
apply " official soreness" to his Lordship ; and
from the Noble Viscount opposite (Godetich) to
the (Nitrate intimation in which the Whigs
their services was conveyed, at what time, from
concealed, for what purpose. and when comic',
to those from whom it had been concealed?
Viscount GODERICH said, that the Noble
had fairly stated that he would take every opporti

convenient or inconvenient, to cam nn An unc

mising hostility to his Majesty's Government.
also tail ly stated, that he would do it by means of
separate, unconnected, and unsatisfactory disci'
for the purpose of producing an impression on 11,e
lic mind. This course might suit the Noble Loi
for the Members of his Majesty's
their friends, who were pot upon their trial, baited,
wiled day after day as men incapable of defending then
selves, there was no justice in such a course. If fairdealisg
was meant towards them, let a distinct motion be
he sought for nothing else. But without a
of any kind, the most violent language was used
most opprobrious imputations cast upon them, and
were not expected to feel as men, or if they did
was necessary, for the sake of their characters, that
'should repress their feelings. He quarrelled not
the object of the Noble Lord—he wished to
impression on tho.publie mind, but let him bring
charges in a tangible manner, and they would be an
with fearlessness. He should be perfectly jugified
in
refusing to answer the questions of the Noble Lord.
but he would readily give him a reply. The bale
Lord asked whether there was not an engagement dist
the influence of the Government should not be used in
favour of the Catholics, or rather, it might be inferred,
that it should be used against them ? He (Viscount
Goderich) had never heard of such an engagement—
he never would have consented to one, and rejected
the imputation, he would not say with scorn, butne
4/selected it as totally unfounded, and unfair, and in-
consistent with the character which he had maintained
for so many years in public lite—(Cheering).—ll the
influence of Government was unchecked, neither did be
mean to bribe men to support a measure of which they
would not spontaneously approve. But why should he
be called upon to answer all the trumpery
Tumours 10
circulation ?—(Cheers). Why should he be daily tor-
tured, as it were, by the most unfounded charges, unless
it he that silence on his part would be construed into a
confirmation of those charges. As to the private inti•
mation, mentioned by the Noble Lord, be knew nothing
of such a communicatiosi; but if any had been nude)
where was the crime to receive offers of services? Ila•
dLubtedly his Noble Friend had been unable to km
the Government as he wished, but he thought it due 10
his Majesty to make a strong one.
Lord ELLENDOROUGH—It cannot staed.
Viscount GODERICH —That temains to be seer.
But he expected from the honour of the Noble Laid
distinct motion, which might be answered, ant If lbs
result should be to turn him and his friends out of pica
it might be foolish to say those things, but it would 100
to him of the greatest relief. But let the Gorernmert
at least be tried, as that of Lord Liverpool was) by dts
acts, aild nntby every false rumour circulated through'

ut the country.
The Marquis of SALISBURY Also wished the Go.
vernment to be tried by its acts.
The Marquis of LANSDOWN rose to say, that 56
proper occasion could arise of which he would not be
most happy to avail himself, in older to give the fullest
and most satisfactory explanation of all that bad been

•
u whiski tee not (beefed from illoo Mm, wmalibave-pursued a altr.ilar II policy. Isla dtrange then,
itch, qui his hlajeluy's scre w-4We, that dißselik film hint on to few put ost the Catholic Ches.
lof con ency between us; iti thisoin. duo *ware* daring atoll, I given him my support?
....r
E. is then, it hai been continent in those But I int told that I tier from from thoftesetit AdMinis-
, to appose, so suddenly to find fault "rich ;futile upon Parliamentary Ref hen I was in the Govern-
t with the remnant of that Government, mem, I did not bring this for d. I certainly bad in my
Ind saunifolotly supported, I think I can arty Pk strong opinions upon t, s t, but It has so happened,
is have influenced tbo,e who have hetet°. that the question of Parliamentary Reform was never, within my re•
meet, in now giving it their support.— collection, introduced into this House. illy Lur. s, I agree lira a
ni) who spoke last but one, has stated his want of personal confidence in individuals mat' warrant the with-

etich).—
e
N able al
lesion of
Nete the
:si as a
serticri .1
!d. The 4
t 4 great
diS.
hed by 4
of their
:ry. And
without
ord thee
Whip! 1
ars, an t
antrastect
that thi
;ht (Earl
shish Mg
!ntleman,
nd of sea
a private
ng ready
are beets
principle
ices as an
iy omssia.
indigna.
had gone 4
iiistr *title
id, on the
nistration
tent with
could not
urging to
ening as
he would
.nut bring
On of Mr,
determine.
,ment with
picion Os.
si had bets
ty. As to
the Catho..
y balanced,
d only tend
tied fears in
holic
a maledic.
he graving
gist lie had
term "
The liable
or not at.
ad) had dip
to apply the
h the Noble
ccused hica
was the case
•
le meant to y
hind asked e
a) to whoa c
igs tendered 1
hum whom
ninunicated 't
sloble
u isc on:ro.
n. He Li
tans of thole
discu,sicnt,
on il,e vs's.
e Letd, but
nation and
baited, re-
nding Om
lair dealing
an be made,
t a maim
s used, the
m, and they
did feel, it
i, that they
:d not with
be
ne:laTu ij°Padb
eubrg
em(dhbs IllierrdneemeecNtLgc etroddrinmi4ki
tt:s
us
earn, but he
air, and in'
Maintaked
,g).—lf the
tither did he
which they
r should he
umours io
daily tor.
rges, unless
rued into a
nivate inti•
ew nothing
eaten made,
!ices? OP
de to fqrs
ht it due to
sad.
to be St"'
able Lords
, an I if the
int of oficte
it would be
io eernmert
was, by its •
'd through.
led the Go'
;ay, that no
old not ho
the fullest
t bad been