Star.
London, England, 1817-02-05 00:00:00

REFORM PETITIONS.

Mr. W. SMITH said, he had a Petition to pre-
sent from Norwich, which he did not know contained
any thing improper or offensive. This ',pinion if
his, however, did no: nine:, in his mind, the sub.
stance or object cf the Petition. He mint i'ecl:ce
giving any particular opinion on the coatents.becaiase
thuught that the cl..itn ups a Member to got
such opinion was imposing upon him a task %%Lie'
was at the cam: time 1).31;1 invidious and useless—.l-
- because it calied on an individual mini-,:
to state an opinion as to the wording of a profit',
and because such an opinion was imagined to I'•!VP 4
certain degree of influence upon the linnse.
must be very strong language indeed in .t petit .:.,
before 1* could be induced to decline to rren.nt tee
from his constituents. Tile claim was uieten. voce,
nifter any Member's decl nion, the Nettie n..7:it
totally disagree %vied the petition i so that 11J
rage was to be gained from the indivit2nal
opinion. If, again, he thought a petition tvdt, ::•.-
proper to present, it might he given into the
some other Mother who thought differeialy, a.
the House might afterwards think it was sit to
ceived, in which case his own opoion would 1,4 r•-..
tuitnus and useless. He then adverted to the car:
is rejected petition nn the 26th of April, 1716, vkirl
was refuse:s on the score of imprver languan:••
11 at petition prayed for the repeal of the Slite•tni.l
Art, which • styled an overturning of the cum:i...-
ti.rn and subversion of the rights and liberties 0'
nation. But he thought, that if the House
mum; would go so tar as to double the peri;.! ;
own existence. he scarcely knew any terror. to
ai to prevent him irons thinking it his tiwy
petition upon the stihji.ct. He had ..t 'OS :•
titian and its prayer, and he thought it one.;
received. There were respectable names nil t! r
sheet, lollowinf by theusandi sigin.tnres. It
on the principle of the vestion lion he
right to decline giving his own opinion on the
in wbkh the pet;tion was couched. lie moved

the petition he brought up, which was ort'etaid.
Mr. C. WYNN regretted to find. occlr!,,n•
rejecting any petition ; but the rule always !ail 0,-:0
by the ablest Members, and the bigh,:•,t
in the House, had been, that every Meirher sh•••,A
give the sanction r I his own opinion ta the
and exprussions of the petition he presented;
fore he could not agree to the principle troy n:•••r•-
tained. 11 lie looked back to the proceet:;it::: ••
Parliament, he found the weal, examples (d. I••••
and of Mi. Pi.t, who wete as anxions as any .r•
bets to support the jus: riAlus of petitioner..
had however presented, un some oecatilns,
of which they stated that they Jid not apre..e •
prayer ; but the u they said they had read Our.:
did not see a;•y tiring i,t them offensive or ei
tal to the 'Lase. Tin Honourable
W. Smith) seemed to treat this as nugatory, ! •
the House could reject a petition : but wa. •.
a point of isd.fferetice to the House to act ••; -
questions as a ntere mato. of course, and at..,.L;
be compelled to hear a train of expretsione
in themselves, and impertinent to, or urc.7•••:::c
with the siMiect, on wh:ch the petition c.-,15 !, e.
At this rate, a Petitiva of the size ef ' • •
killalv) volume ttli:!!:t bo brought up on.i !kr!: !.
vtat cxttatit•tati Rittl r irt•tding I,;i
WAS qtke tired tan weep hearing Ile va.
be obliged to oppcse receivinF, .1 petition ur.•• ' •
present circunastinces. He had rale. perszn'•
had brought petitions to him, that he was 161,6::
pre sent them, but sometimes they hard run
great a length, or contained what might ewe
rejection, and he had then recommende.l the f 411.•
to amend and alter them. It was much the bt.l
way to take any offensive matter c.ut of a Minor !
fore presenting it. He saw no one bent tit like-F •
arise from any alteration of the uu;l,.rm and ce-
bl:sited practice of the House. There must 0b5.,..
be. a great inconvenience in being obliged I.)
and hear all sorts of lust:tit and concerti::

:fl

.., ..
. ;;1 1 rn,uner 'oreasirin; Ansled to the eitiwn-
.. the Krotisli Petition.• The House, after
~, off :wee l-agnage, had no wey of animas!.
.•,..; i:?,•n it but by rejecting the• Petition which
,;,,,,i ii,eq, 'l's. former practice had hen to
~.s,!.j c :o.:s to Ps titions on the question 'of hrit,F....
. ,; ra isii. It A. uld he a bubjezt of regret, if all
taro fa he read as st matter of ceurse. He
- :.‘ t ,!..:eplv i: P,:itioes were. reject d merely
. '• ; u.:7:taineL; pass:lnes whirl: exlsressiA %en-
.
. ~ ..:. „vary to the opiitithis of the maim ity of the
..3,... if- ....aw nn yeti, tie 4:: ,:lfectual for all desi.
,c. ;.,,:pr.., ih in to ii.iri:re the opinien of a Mem-
is in tl.e ~:h ir Ktt,r ct A l'eti::011; and it WAS the
. tit„ J.• of ay( LS ~rt the p. i.ifui necessity of rejection.
'r. I,9CE.l!l..it'il h.v.l always thought the Mem-
• rei,:,,t a petition bound to read it, hut not to
r, MCI vouch for the propriety of the lan-
, I -rontai^::J, excepting in pirrticular cases,
7'll 1-!-,use having reason to believe the matter
• :, • erensive, might require some assurance on
H-zt The opinion he had formed ha .1 . been
-.1 by what • ccerred a five days back. When
ii- nour..blv Baronet had brought up his first
~,,t, no qiiestions had been asked ; but w'en
mu had been rend, and found to be' disres-
-14 to the House, and couched in nearly the same
s, !ie had properly been asked if those which he
-,^Cll 'ntly about to present were of the same.
Wiwi. called to state what the character
;;Lein eiielit be, he thought the Member pre-,
.4 it was bitssid to give a pledge, that it con-1
eiething improper, but he did not think lael
oiled upon to do this in the first instance.
';i• SPEA.KER apprehended the rule of the
se to be what had been laid down on a former 1
.I what had been correctly stated by an 1i0..!
, ..... Gznil..:::, in (Mr. Wynne) on this, that the
.:!.,a0 a right to expect a Member presenting 'a
'll4 would be prepared to declare the langu ige
; v: s: nut in his opinion intentionally disrespectful.
e rel.:sea to give such a pledge, it seemed herd
t the House should be expected to depart fromits
bli.heil rules to receive the petition so presented.
Nlember ought in the first instance to satisfy
felf that the language of it was not improper:
fie.!CASTLEREAGH said, the feeling of the
Ave must ever be in favour of receiving petitions,
I it ;ever tould be their wish, in considering
It was dug to their dignity, and what was their
', to throw any obstacles in the way of petitio-
He thought the Honourable Gentleman pre-
.ting this petition had gone most unnecessarily out
Lis.wity, and he hoped it would be felt, that if
! motion were opposed, it was nut from any wish
that side of the House to get rid of the petition.
. from a desire •to assert a principie which had
tr: been brou;iht into discussion. He apprehended
rule of the Howls to be• founded in true wisdom,
.d true wisdom went' to throw open their doors to
itionrs.in the largest sense, and doing this to be
;:itil not to &part from the established usage of
liliment. It was not necessary they should sub.
' in be wateJ with disrespect to secure to petitio.
tf.::ir ry.hts. What degradation would be theirs,
CV CICY to submit to every insult that the wicked,
igihations of nesiAning men• might be pleased to.
upon them...LO reed every petition that might•
tented, and reading, to put it ott their jeers
hmwaver idireusive cis . content...might be!- isle
' the Members of that House would not lend
I.t. b. como the channels • insult, and to
as the means oflibelling it. In a case where
Member diutned what was toe course most proper
tie pawed, he might with propriety 'sta.! Ins
ibis, and then the potion could be read, that the
Riot's tut the House might assist him incoming To
decision. But when the i-I,nourable Gentleman

.f..."r

r. W. Smith lei broadly maintained that the
fuse was bound 1.• receive any petition that might
etfereJ, without requiring any pledge as to its
gttage; he w Add say, that if they lent themselves
stic:i doctrine, they lent themselves to thew own
Aradatiott. and to the destruction of their own pri-
ieges and (10104. .As thr. subject had been forced
lino:manly oaths Heine, Chad • no difficulty to
wine to the established rule, aird•considering the
gas anttifiihrrties &the subject involved in the 'Uig-
-11 of that litho., he thought they were bound in
epresiditgaSe to reject the petatitai.
tom FRANCIS aIURDET 1. 41101)10 it was. rather
en so it4ectable• a body 'at men ar; the peti.
'mt.! that.thew petition oboists: be rejecttd.laecause
Member presenting it bad expres ed* in opinion
a matter with' which they in the preient,*itsseanM
' nothing to do. After all it ceiiid not bedomitied
every Member? would exercise I:1i OWII
whenever a petition was brouitht tor him to' pieta
andhe hoped the Noble Lord would nut pease-
:• is his oppos;ti»n:on the present occasion. •
Mr. BATHURST observed, the Honniirdble:'
mhcr (Mr. W. Smith) had nut been content to let'
ie•tition stand on that ground which the Honour-1
ilaiiinet was disposed to take. The contents of
pvtition nobody knew but the flonourabie Gene
IA (Mr. Smith), and he had r fused to say any
'lg 01 them, as he wishtd to raise a question on
general principle. The principle ',hat lim-
itable Gentleman wished to be adopted, was one
,ich he (Mr. Bathurst) thought it right to oppose,
!) must ci,tite,tl every Member ought to read a
Itiun befole he presented it, that he might net be
. innoccn, channel of insult to the House.
\V. bM rri replied et some length, amid de-
tect he had not the slightest objection to read any
ttion he mi,ziit be called upon to present, nor did
think any Member ought to shrink from resp
'44 for the contents of whet he might believe it
he his dety to offer t• the Housp, if such a prio•
Ie wele.and,rstood to be once adopted. T., what
said of his having unnecessarily brought up
on this o:casion, he would only answer,
.c in this he had bat tmitated the conduct of a Right
Gentleman (Mr. Canning) on a former nigh:.
'l"ing the question in debate to be, on -both sides
Hoote, a in suer of principle rather than of
;le should be most ria.lf to box to the de-
'', tat the Mimic. He moved that the petition
hroug‘t up.
34 r aid Mr.Wvatraseverallyexplained.
CANNING begged to • set the Hotiourable
seen tit h tgnt in Irma of fact with respect to•what
tik.:n place tin a dormer evening, to whieb die
Gentle:H.o44d just refinted• lle was
the first who had °blotted 't° thc Petition then
anted, nor /pod he pot any qucetiot to dm Hon.

Baronet (Sir traneis Bolide) trn he 'mod to
ti e House that be had not Ma the he was
Actin to present. • . -
Mr. BANKES said the Hononrablie 17.;i:•rlrtirn
ainith)• had said he :oul:I. if so d:sp,isql., f4y
there was glutting improper in the Petititel. I, Om
dediratio %ecru repeated, he (Mr. Batike) wa 4.1
ot.inioo 66,41 rn;q:.t received.
Mr. BROUGIiAM trusted hi; Hon. I':i.7nd (Mr.
Smith) would not give the House the trouble of di,
r;ding ; but he also trusted that be would not colt.
ply with the request of the last speaker. It it ..sere
telt that a Member osa,:ht t•• tea I a Poition bel.re

he presented it, let a tale and honourahle order:tan.;
ding be came to on the stOject on bath 5:,1.•%; but he I
hoped that no Member, nor even the H lose its.ll,
would get into the h.tbit of aJministeriug intettr*i-
tortes to every Honourable m Gentle an who migat
present a Petition. Such a •course. he coo,eri.jeii
was txtraordinary and unpuliamentary, and wratilJ
lead to a coarse of examination that w:ail.l be very
inconvenient. as. after the question, a :Imre you read
vie Petition r' the nest question undiniliteslty would
b:, 66 Is it fit to be presented r' and if a dntiht occur-
red here, it would then be asked, a What do you, think
of it upon the whole P' To this he must object, And
he hoped his Hon. Friend would not repeat what he
had before stated; in compliance with the suggestion
o: the last speaker.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXC.iIEQUER
said Vie Honourabl: Baronet (Sir Fr.to,:is Liu. Jett)
htd been questioned on a fctmer night in consequence
of his having said he lad not read one of the Teti
units he presented. In the ptebent caw., no rine
would have thought of asking the Hon. Gentleman
(Mr. Smith) Allocation.
After a few words from Lord A. HAMILTON, the
question was put and negatived.

•,`"; Ps'
is !‘)
mink of
r, 1
, • -cm
.. • : 1-!
..; •••• :* •
hl
nom,
ti •,1, oil
ai
to thi
r••
s, ha
,4 it ye:,
action
tr., c iied U
Ize SPI
ta be
wl
. .7. • G:
wet
e rctiisek
6,t the Ho
r
~.4 Menthe
a.nself that
listve must
asi it ilet?
Wilt WAS di
daty, to dio
nets. He t
:rang this
of Lis way,
motion
Ca that side
bet froma a
ww: been b
rule of
od true ssi
pcitionus.
cattdul not
Pat ...i:iment
nit En be u
urn 14:::r
were tact'
imioginatur
heap upon
be presente
nat.,
trusted the
' tticrnselves
be used as
Menihier
) be pan
'oats, .491
'edam 01
decision.
(Mr. W.
.ouse was
• • otfere.:,
..;•.gtiage
sec:, .1 d
•
• 'egradatiei
- „lege* and
miscessari
tl
~1-of tea'
• pie
e ate 1'
nd ea so
i-tiers,:
•••• Med),
• ei 4 matte
i•d nuthin
:it every
• 111whenc
-s and.!
N, in his
Mr. B
(
• pt•titio
hie 11.. i
pvtitic
(!oi
" ni
genera
(durable
Lich he
tows
• 'itiun
,aide
Z4r. \V
;i 14ied fit
!itlon h
e think :
be his ,
pie deli
•nt be.,,
.2
'•,t in th
Ce
•••eViftg
• • ice.
•
:Ai,. 3,
Ur. C,
t
it the I
▪ edented