Star.
London, England, 1803-05-05 00:00:00

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Mr. S reit writ took the Chair at the ufuala.aur; and Come
private buliuefs having been done,
A M. ffage from the Lo ds announced their Lordfhip's af-
km to a Bill for preventing vexatious averts, and to feveral
private Bills.
Mr. Wie.K IT asr moved, that there be laid be the Heufe
a copy of the Evidence taken by the Commitßimer, of Ac-
counts on the Dublin Paving and Strect•repairing Committee.
Lord !AVM's Go wee moved the Order of the Day on the
further cunfidcration of the Report of the Committee on Coun-
ty Briigei. When the Refolutinns were agreed to, and a 8.11
ordered to be brought in accordingly.
The confider Lion of the Stirling Elation Petition was poll,
pored till Tusfday the 23i1 of Aurult.
Leave was riven for the Fait India Company to lay before
the Houle an Aeeount of the Produce of their Q2ick Stock.
Mr. Flowaao, a•ter fume ohfervations, moved that the
Do. tw.ch Road Bill be re-committed.
The motion was orrofrd by Mr. Hu R IT, Sir ROSIER'S- &IX-
T•Ps. Sir LAWIENCL PAtIoNS, and Mr. DICEISIS, and fup-
porte.l by Mr. STU a rtr s and Sir Vs' st. Or A It Y.
Stran:,crc were or:eied to withdraw, when a divifion took
place—Fur the Re-cui.anitment, 44—Againli it, 92---.Maju-
rity, 32.
The Ittlo:utioo was then agreed to, and a Bill ordered ae.
corJui‘ly.

NAVY AIIItSFS.

Sir 14E0410' MILOMAY ride to call the attention
oldie I tonic to t li l.jeei upon which, both within
that Flouk• :CI I thtnlighollt the country, much cu-
rii.rity and folicitude had been excited : he alluded
to the proceedings of the Committee appointed to
enquire into the alledgcd Attics in the Naval ger-
vice, which were (laced by his Majeily's Mitullers
to he of the molt flagitious and ctiortmus nature.
Butt it was rather cxtramdinary, that this Commit-
tce had been appointed now frost months ; though
they had been proceeding from that time to this
cn their enquit y ; though the nature of the int/el-
t...zation for witch they were appointed was of the
moll urgent nano ; and although they were (tria-
lv enjoined by the I inufe to report the refults of
their enquiry from time to time, yet no report
whatever had yet been made, notwitlidanding the
anxiety of the ruhlic mind, and notwithilanding
the chat acler, ur many perfons,:llwa?; heretofore
cont.:dere:l as if high lc:pet/ability, remained as in
a (Lice nt tielinquerr y, although, as he onderflood,
no proof whatever LAJ ct.rne out to fultilantiate
the charges again:! thu.te charaf.ers ; in onc
Rance cfpccirlly : A :•:r. Taylor, wit° bad hetn

charged with delinquency in his central. So far
from his delinquency being proved, or his difmilial
julified by the inve(hgation, that he was reinitated
in his contra& S:r Henry argued at tome length
on the neceility of an immediate report from the
Committee, in order to the fatisfaetion of the
Houle and the Country ; and he concluded by
moving, "That the laid Commiffroners do report
forthwith."

Sir CHAR LFS POLE fail, he had the honour of
being one of the Commiffioners on the fubjed of
Navy Abufes, and he fhould be happy to give the'
Hon. Baronet and the Honk every fatisfattion in
his power on this fubjed. He could ail-tire the Houfe,
that from the fiat hour the Commiffioners fat in
January Tall, to the prefcnt, the Cosnmiffioners
of that Board had unremittingly fat for feven hours
each day, in the moft fedulous attention to the bu-
finds committed to their invefligation ; they had,
indeed, a molt arduous talk to perform : they had
been able as yct to get through but four of the
fubjeds referred to their enquiry : the proceedings
were voluminous, and it was necefrary to have fair
copies tranfcribed to lay before the Houfe. This
was in operation, and one of thefe Reports was
nearly finithed, and the other three would alfo be
fpeedily read, fo as to lay the whole before the'
Houle in a few days. He regretted that the time
of the Houfe fhould be taken up with fuch quef-
tions ; and had he been in the Houfe when the
Hon. Baronet firft made hismotion, he fhould have
given the information he now gave.
Captain MARKHAM laid, he knew nothing of the
proceedings of the Commillioners ; but he thought
the Hon. Baronet had made many allufions which,
in his opinion, would have been better kept back ;
he neither thought it decent nor proper that the
Report fhould have been touched upon. He did'
not think that the Block contrad was a good one
from the beginning ; but the proper opportunity
for difeuffing the matter would be when his own
opinion came to be oppofed to the other fide of the
quellion : he would not enter into the propriety
of the expedient now ; he fhould only Rate, that
the Lords of the Admiralty, judging the contract
detrimental, they employed a very ingenious me-
chanic, who fet up a machine in the yard at Ply-
mouth, for making blocks; and upon a comparifon
of his blocks with thofe furnifhed by Mr. Taylor,
the former were every way fuperior, both in work-
manfhip and value. With refped to the equip-
ments of the Navy, he Aimed the Houfe, with
much warmth, that the imputations thrown upon
the Admiralty, on that account, were equally ma-
levolent and unfounded, and highly injurious to
the country. For, taking a comparative view of
the flare of our Naval equipments at this moment,
and the period of 1792, three months previous to
the commencement of hoftilities, our force at this
day would be found molt conliderably fuperior
indeed. We had now in Britifh harbours a force
competent to cope with fleets greatly fuperior to
any which France and her Allies, even in the bell
days of her navy, had ever commenced with us a
maritime contelt—a force which, were it to put to
fca to-morrow, would have nothing to contend
with but fifhing.boats.
The CHANCELLOR of the EICHEQZIER." Sir,
I fully agree with my Hon. Friend who has jolt
fpoken, that the imputations which have been
thrown out againft the Board of Admiralty, and
the equipments under their direction, not only do
molt unjultly affect that Hon. Board, but are alfo,
heavy imputations upon the country in general, I
and tend to deprefs the public fpirit ; and if fuch
imputations are thrown out, which ferve only to
depreciate our ftrength, refources, and efficiency
at home, it has a tendency to mifchievous effects
abroad. I oblerved with regret the particularity
with which my Hon. Friend alluded to the fpeech
of the Hon. Baronet. All that the Hon. Baronet
alluded to, was to the points which were objects of
enquiry. Until the report be made (and I think
the Houfe is fatisfied, by the declaration of ano-
ther Hon. Friend of mine behind me, Sir Charles
Pole, that there will be no want of diligence in
bringing forward all the information required), I
du feel, that in the nature of the motion itfell
there is a good dial of that which may be ftyled
rtbuke to the Commiffinners. It excited a fulpi-
; cion that there had been much unneceffisry delay
on their parts ; but the Houle has been allured,
and, I unit, latisfadorily, that not a moment's
delay or intermiffion has unneceffarily occurred;
' that one report is nearly ready to bring forward,
and three others will be ready in a day or two.—
, In my opinion, the imputation of neglect has not
bee, a hidden thought. The Hon. Baronet has
thrown out fume fuggeflinns, indicating that the
Board of Admiralty has, at prefect, fearcely the
means of adequate defence for the public fervice.
I do not at all like fuch fufpicions thrown out
againft perfons in their highly refponlible
lions, without authentic grounds. I never laid
there would be fifty fail of the litre ready for fca
by any particular day. It would have been mad-
nels to have fo aflerted. What I laid was, that
fifty (hips of the line might be equipped for fervice
within one month, from the commencement of
emergency ; but I exprefsly difclairn having laid
any thing of that on which it was impatiible to
form any accurate calculation; namely, of the!
precife time at kith] which the ilia complement of
men for Inch a fleet could be completed. It may
be very poffible to calculate cus the period within
which a certain number Of may be got ready
for lea, yet it is irnputlible to calculate that which
depends on continoencies, fuel: as the procurathas
of men fur thole flsips. 'We calasot know the nuns•
hot of mercantile (hips which may be in our ports
when an emergency may occur, ti om which !hips
A great portion of thole men mull be had. It is, ,
however, of fume importance for the Houfe to I
know, that fifty fail nt the lm: may be got ready
in all other rcfpeds than their full complement of
men, within one month from the commencement
of emergency. I will not at :I.:s moment (late
the prccilc number of (hips of war now in Britilh
ports, but this I will Alert, that it is greatly be-
yond the number which appeared, to my oblerva.
tion, Rated L:7 the public prints. It is greatly
beynr!.: ou. tun o _t any former p.aiod, within any
timilar ehlanceolthe expellation br probability of
'llollH:tits, and is loch as usait 1:4; gratifiing to

I every friend to his country. I can fpecify, not
from my own authority, from one more authentic,
that there are thirtyfiven fail of the hue now in
the ports of this country ready for fea, and aetu
ally in commiflion, betides thole on foreign Ra-
tions ; and I beg Gentlemen may not infer, that
becaufe the whole of thofe (hips may not be now
completely manned, that hands are not therefore
procurable. It mull be confidered, that in every
cafe, the proceedings of the of the Admi-
ralty are meafured by the emergency of circurn.
fiances. They have, in fart, abflained from taking
any Rep by which the commerce of the country
might be embarraffed, until occafion becomes ine-
vitable. They have not impreffed from protec-
tions ; they have not retorted to thofe meafures
which, followed to their extent, would fpeedily in-
fore the requifite complement of men. Let us
r.:colletl, what is the number of our fleets on fo-
reign Ration ; let us remember, that we have not
on the prefent, as on former preparations for de-
fence, made our commencement with ten, twelve,
or fifteen fail of the line, but withifiy fail of the
line, adually in commillion : not with ten, twelve,
or fourteen thoufand feamen, as formerly, but
with
_fifty thoqfand : and that, therefore, it is not
quite fo eafy nor fo neceffary, to increafe upon our
number of either, in the latter or in theforrner cafe.
Upon the whole, Sir, I have been anxious to cor-
red errors, and to let myfelf right; and, I muff
fay, there is no period to which I look forward
with greater anxiety, than that day when I (hall
have an opportunity of meeting enquiry—when I
(hall have an opportunity of doing juflice to the
conduit of his Majeßy's Government, and to my.
fell, amongft others, as a Member of it. I look
forward to that day with more fatisfaCtion than
can poffibly defcribe, when public duty (hall per-
mit me to make a communication, upon which it
is propofed to found an enquiry into the (late of
the nation. That day (hall be accelerated, on my
part, as much as my public duty can poffibly ad-
mit ; and I truft the refult will be fatisfaftory to
the moll zealous hopes and expetlations of the bell
friends of the country. I (hall, therefore, Sir, in-
(lead of giving my negative to the motion of the
Hon. Baronet, move, 4, That you proceed to the
other Orders of the Day."
Mr. CANNING, in a fpeech of confiderable length.
vindicated the motion of the Hon. Baronet, his
Friend, and the motives which induced him to it,
and the right which he had, as a Member of Par-
liament, to information upon a fubjett on which ,
there had been fo much hurry, on the part of his
Majefty's Minifters, to precipitate enquiry, left
guilt fhould fly from jutlice ; that the Bill was
hurried through the Houfe, lie would not fay with
unconllitutional, but certainly with moll unufual
celerity ; nor were even the Chriflmas holidays
allowed to pats over,before it was paired into a law.
Minifters then allured the Houfe the country was
in profound peace—that now was the time for re-
dation in our eflabliffiment—retrenchments and
economy : now the time for inveßigating abufes
which had crept into our naval departments dur-
ing an arduous war of ten years, for deteEting
frauds, and punithing delinquency and peculation.
Four months had patted over in fedulous enquiry,
without any report from the Commillioners, or
any proof adduced of the guilt of the principal
perfons aecufed. Did any refult go to prove the
guilt, or extenfive peculation alleged had exifted?
Was it a proof of the peculation charged againft
Mr. Taylor, that Co far from being conviCted and
punifhed, he was reinflated in his contra& ? His
Hon. Friend, therefore, in demanding this report,
afked only fur the information to which, as a Mem-
ber of Parliament, he was intitled ; to which, he
was prompted by the feelings of a Gentleman and
a Friend, anxious for the vindication of thofe
friends who had fuffered the groffeft imputation
without any proof being adduced, fo far as he
could learn, to fußain them. With refpeet to the
propriety of enquiring into any abufes which might
have crept into the Iyflem of his Majeßy's dock-
yards, in the courfe of a long and arduous war,
he had no objeCtion to every reafonable enquiry,
with a view to correCtion. If an officer, or an ar
tificer was over-paid, he had no objeftion to re-
trenchment ; but it was of the molt material and
important difference, whether this was to be done
at a time of profound peace, when no mitchief
could refult from the reform, or at the eve of a
war, when fuch meafures would ferve but to irri-
tate ufeful artificers, and drive them from the
public fervice, without any means of fupplying
their places. Such aeconomy mull be infinitely
more mifchievuus, than any degree of extrava-
gance it could he direCted to retrench. It hap-
pened, he laid, in this, as in many other cafes,
that thole who wittiest to ((ippon the fame argu-
ments, contradifted each other upon the fame
topics. Such was now the cafe between the Right
Hon. Gentleman on the floor (the Chancellor of
the Exchequer) and his Hon. Friend behind him
(Capt. Markham) ; but before he proceeded to call
the attention of the Houle to the point he meant
to allude to, be would move that his Majelly's
late Meltage'to both Houfes be row read—(it was
read accordingly).—.. Here, then, (laid the Hon.
Member) is the flatten contradittion between two
of the molt leading authorities, on a moll impor-
tant tubjeft. His Islajefty's Metfage tells this Houfe
that an important Treaty is pending between this
Country and the Government of France, the refult
of which cannot yet be known ; and that formi-
dable equipments are carrying forward in all the
ports of France and Holland, againft which it it
neceilary to be prepared for any refult. The pub-
lic farce is immediately encrealed ; formidable ar
maments in our arterials, and equipments in nui
fleets, are immediately let on toot ; the country
is thrown into apprehenfion andalarm; public ere lit
into ennfulion ; and r,ow that we ate told that a
formidable fleet is ready to put to fea, we hear, for
the &II time, and from a Lord of the Admiralty
too, that this fleet may be oppofed, net by formi-
dable equipments from the ports of France and
Holland, for it now teems that there are no fuel
things in thole ports, but it has nothing to refl.,
but a firer of fining kair \Vas this, he wnol,
alk, the ground of all our alarms and apprelien
lions \l 'as this the proof of intelligence on the
part cl Mir.ifiers, which induced them to cools

tile apprelienfions of the Country? ft was an ir,
Rance, however, and the true one in his mind, u,
account why communication fo often promifed wa;
fo long delayed.
Mr. Fox laid, he (hould sot long trefpafs on the
patience of the Houfe, but he could not fuffer it to
depart without obferving, that he did not exaely
coincide in opinion with either of the Hon. Get,
tlemen who had fpoken in this debate, and who, he
thought, had treated the Hon. Baronet with more
feverity than any thing that had fallen from 11;:,
was entitled to. The Houfe would recoiled th.rt
no inquiry had been moved, and therefore no im-
putation could poftibly attach to the intentions („
thofe who were defirous to obtain information,
than that of a defire to know how a bulinefs:olthi;
importance, which the Hon. Baronet's Motion al.
luded to, had been condueed. It was very na.
tural to with that every matter of moment lhould
be before the Houfc, and no one more ariently
defired it than he did; for his own past, It:
convinced of the general good intention, corm:eel
with ability to corral abufes, and he lincerely
hoped the noble Lord at the heed of the Admiral-
ty, and thole with whom he abed, would not Cul
fer themfelves to be intimidated by an infutreeh.n
of jobbers who were ever ready to let up the huc
and cry again ft thofe who would bring their mal.
praeices to light, and that they would boldly and
determinedly look with the molt fcrutinizing eye
into the abufes which have crept into the naval dt-
partrnent, and which, if left uncorrected, might
be attended with the molt fatal confequences tv
the belt and dearth interelts of the Country. He
was by no,means a friend to ftrong powers, but if
ever ftrong powers ought to be given, he though;
it Ihould be agtainft thofe abufes which prevail in
fo important a department as that of the Admi-
ralty, and which, according to all accounts he had
heard, (for he was not prefent when the Bill was
introduced) called fo loudly for reform. With re-
fpett to the armament, this was not the time to
difcufs it, and his only reafon for riling at the prc.
fent moment, was to exprefs the thorough confi-
dence he repofed in the Admiralty, at the head of
which prefided a noble Lord, whole ardour in the
caufe of his country could not be exceeded.
Capt. Ma a KHA 55, in explanation, laid, that when
he (poke of the fuperiority of this country over
the enemy in fitting out a fleet, he did not mean
to fpeak contemptuoufly ; but he thought he had
a right to fpeak with exultation on fuch a fubjeet,
and he was very confident their exertions in that
department could by no means be compared to
out 's.

Sir HENRY MI LEM AY Paid, the Chancellor of the
Exchequer had made ufe of words, as coming from
him, which he did not ufe ; he did not recoiled
having called the Gentlemen, compofing the Board
of Admiralty, parfimonious charaCters.
The CHANCELLOR of the ETCH ca affirred
the Hon. Baronet that he did pot mean to mifre•
prefent or initiate what had fallen from him, but
that he undertlood him to fay, 'that the Admi-
ralty had ufed " a parfimonious and ill-timed
(economy."
Mr. LEICESTER Paid, he was lorry that the Corn •
miffioners have not been able to give the Houle
the refult of their inquiry refpeaing the abides in
h:c Majelly's Navy, before this time ; but hesould
afrure the Hon. Baronet that the Report fhould
be l aid before the Houle as early as potlible.