Star.
London, England, 1811-03-22 00:00:00


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llliw'
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don of the irregular force of the peasantry of the that was proposed to be Liven to Portugal. This was
country. What had been the practical effect of this I a remarkable circumstarr e, and he never recollected a
system ? He had met with nobody that could deny similar omission on any former occasion. It wa,, ti.
i
that it had defended and maintained that country more remarkable, as the whole question seemed to he
against a most powerful French army. It was im- argued as if it was meant to propose nothing more eiru
possible to deny that every branch of the service had \the sum that had been given last year. He sA.:111
not greatly contributed to this desirable object. 'Upon . have concluded from the speech of the Noble L,,,1,
all ancient principles in our public conduct, upon all that nothing more was proposed than a renewal of the
the sacred principles of public faith, upon all grounds vote of the former session, which was one miliion stir.
of wise and just policy, we had viewed Portugal as ling, in order to keep up the same force in Portugal.
the ally of this country.' In all our views of that na- Could it be conceived from the Noble Lord's speech,
tion, we had so regarded it—none bad ever doubted that it was now proposed to double that burn ? Or
the importance of the allianceall.had thought that was this grant to be considered so much of a matter
great effects might result from it. One condition only of course, that the amount of it was not worth sped.
was stated, namely, that Portugal herself should make Eying ? The real question for the consideration of
all the exertions in her power in her own defence.— the House was, Whether the situation and circum.
This, at the present moment, she was doing in a way stances of this country were such as to make it pot-
and to an extent, unparalleled' in her history—(hear.) dent and politic to expend two millions forthe main.
This was the practical result of our operations, which 1 tenance of the Portuguese forces ? Neither had any
were most important also in other points of view. He , informaiion been given as to the mode of its applica-
Would not enter into other topics, but he thought that ' tion. Last year an estimate, however imperfect, had
nobody could deny that our defence of Portugal was been made on that subject, but now nothing was
ir most important to the interests of the whole of the said of it ; and the • House remained ignorant, whe.
Peninsula. Farther on that particular branch of the tbcr it was to.be expended in the formation and main.
subject he should then decline to enter, though he tenance of an additional force, or whether it was to
was not indisposed to do so—but let any one ste how be applied to the Civil Goiernment of Portugal, On
great an object would it become, should some fa- all these subjects the 'douse was left utterly in the
vourable event take place in Spain, and the effect it dark. He had no hesitation in declaring it to be his
must then have on the next campaign —( gear, luar.) conviction, that on the system now acted upon by
=Would not their Lordships, under these circum- Ministers, their Lordships, by sanctioning this Re.
stances, continue their aid, already so beneficially op- solution, would go on rapidly accumulating the
plied ? or would they now, with a rash—(he would already overwhelming expenditure of the country,
not wish to use too - Ing an expression)—but would and would accelerate that ruin which was fast up.
_ , What he obiected to was, the whole system

--------"'""""1"dig nature of bank-notes, ansbono one was obliged to ,
PARLIAMEIVTART PROCtEDINGS.' \ them- .
. Lord LAUDERDALE could by no *tont i
HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH rt. , mit the defence attempted to be set up 'by sate.; to
The Silk Manufacturers Wares Bill, and Taunton's Divorce Lord. - The alarming measure, so justly roptistostet.
Bill, were read a third time, and passed. ' , by his Noble Friend (Lord Grenville) was nclt, so
The Sugar Drawbacks and Bounties Bill, and several ether
Bills, were brought up front the Consume, and read a first time. much the result of the increase of the value of sailer,
The Royal Marine Mutiny Bill was returned from the Cons- as of the manifest depreciation of Bank paper. And
moss by Mr. R. Ward, and other Members, with the Amend- the. Noble Lord would find, if he turned his view to
ments agreed to. ; other countries, or looked back into the history of
On the niettion of Earl Getosverrot, the consideration of the
; our own, he would find that such an expedient as that
Reversion Bill was postponed till Monday sennight.
. complained of was a sure concealment of the decay
of public credit. It had been so in the reign of King I
William the Third, when the measure had been wisely
and unanswerably condemned, hiS the impolicy of it
exposed by Mr. Locke. ..7--
P Lord GRENVILLE,* adverting to the act of 1
' the Governor and Directors of the Bank, did not by 1
any means intend to place them between Ministers.
i and the censure of the I louse. A time would come
when it would be incumbent on the Directors of the
Bank to answer for themselves, how far they had
justified the public confidence which had been placed 1
in them.
Earl BATHURST stated that Government had
not made them a legal tender.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that it was
out of the power of the Government to make them a
legal tender, as those who had to administer the law
would of course state to Juries what the law was with
respect to a legal tender.
Earl BATHURST contended,in reply to Lord El-
lenborough, that the Goverment could make the cur.

DANEURY PEERAGE.
In the Committee of Privileges on the Banbury
Peerage, the Earl of RADNOR delivered his opinion,'
and Lord REDISDALE, at considerable length, agahlst
the claims of the Petitioner. The latter Noble Lords
did not finish his speech, the Lola) CHANCELLOR haw-1
ing proposed, on account of the lateness of the hour,.
to postpone the further proceeding till Monday, at
two o'clock, which was agreed to.
LMERTY OF CONSCIENCE IN THE ARMY.
Earl STANHOPE, referring to what he had said
on the Mutiny Bill, presented a Bill for the better
• . security of Liberty of Conscience, for the purpose of
making an enactment .similar to that in the clause
d by his Lordship to be added to the Mutiny
greHaving stated the right of a Peer to have a
•Zill presented by him read a first time,
The Earl of LIVERPOOL doubted the right, al-
though he admitted the practice to have been to read
a Bill presented by a Peer a first time, without motion.
4 GRENVILLE stated the constant usage on

Loid _ . ..Age G.
this point to have been, that a Bill so presented should
be read a first time without motion. 1
The Earl of LIVERPOOL repeated, he was not

rent coin of the realm a legal tender.
The Earl of ROSSE referred to the state of Ire-
land, to prove that the issue of Bank Paper had not

strong
they, with an untimely hand, come down that night
and declare, that they would intercept the progress,
that they would stop the course and track of their
" " those -' - which were

proaching. syst.
cepolicy pursued by Ministers. He must contend, drat
the-situation of the continent was such, that unless we
t had some hopes of great military efforts arising to our

success, by withholding. supplies
necessary to their continuance ? The question now
before them was, not whether they were to excite
assistance in Portugal to the common cause—whe-
,ther they were to begin to arouse the slumbering
energies of a base and depraved nation ? it was not
so ; but it w is, whether or no we should avail our-
selves of those efforts and energies which were ac-
tually in existence—whether we should damp the
spirit of resistance, and destroy the flame of indepen-
dence ; or teed its growing strength, and allow it its
full an natural course ? We were not called upon
now by acts of incitement to raise that nation, but
to continue those efforts which had been so success-
ful already. Would we deprive ourselves and that
i country of the great advantages already gained ? He
wished to keep clear of questions on which there might
and must be many opportunities of discussion ; but
omitting them, he should say, that every maxim of
faith, of wisdom, of experience from all history, every
just view'of the Means of prosecuting the great contest
in which we were necessarily engaged, must induce
their Lordships to concur in the motion he was
about to have the honour of submitting to them.-.-
One other topic he should presume to touch upon.
His Royal H: the Prince Regent had, as their

intending at this time to interfere with the exercise of
this usage and claim upon courtesy ; but he should
ever maintain, there was no certain right in any Peer
to claim it as a privilege. With respect to what oc-
curred in a former period, he recollected there was
some observation made upon the privilege—but their
Lordships came to no determination whatever on the
subject.
Lord HOLLAND recollected the part he took in
the discUssion alluded to—(on the.ftrst reading of
Earl Grosvenor's Reversion Bill)—and he certainly
then stated it to be the usage and right of every Peer.
The Bill was then read the first time.
Earl STANHOPE next moved, " That the Bill;
be printed."—Agreed to.
Earl STANHOPE said, he should now move that
the Bill be read a second time on—(when being in-
terrupted by the Noble Secretary opposite)—the Noble
Earl continued—" Well, the Noble Lords opposite
are welcome to their right of form, provided hereafter
they will grant to me my right of substance.—(4
Laugh.)—l will now give notice, that I intend to
• move the second reading on any day most suitable to
the House.—Will that suit the Noble Lords ? I shall
also notice, my Lords, he is the best qualified to at-
-
- in his Awet to

• .
the effect supposed upon the state of the exchange,
the.exchange having become more favourable to Ire-
land, notwithstanding the increased issue of the paper I
of the Bank of Ireland.
The Earl of LAUDERDALE controverted this
argument, contending that the issue of the paper of
the Bank of Ireland did not now operate as it previ-
efosly did, but only as a proportionate part of the com-
bined issue of that Bank and the Bank of England. '
Earl STANHOPE thanked Lord Grenville for
his motion, and said that there was another serious
-.Constitutional view of the subject. What could
vent Ministers, if so disposed, in such a transact ai
this, from the most foul and infernal corruption in the
' way of corrupt influence, by informing their friends
of the measures they were about to adopt or sanction?
The papers were ordered.
Lord GRENVILLE then moved for an address
to the Prince Regent, for copies of all the correspon-
dence that had taken place between the Government
and the Governor and Company of the Bank of Eng-
land, relative to this business ; which, after a few
words from Earl BATHURST, was likewise agreed to.
AID TO PORTUGAL.
The Marquis WELLS/11-EY moved the Order of the
_ -
Message,

~ance, it was quite impossible for this countr-y alone
to arrest the progress of that Power who at present pos-
sessed the military controul of the greater part of Eu-
rope. He wished het-e, however, to guard himself
against any misrepresentation of what he had said. It
had been at all times the policy and never could be but
most desirable for this country to contribute its utmost
efforts to preserve or restore the independence of the
continent. He trusted, that a time might come, when
this country might interfere with effect in setting bounds
to that tyranny by which Europe was oppressed.—
But, then, it must be recollected, that its power and
resources were essentially, and principally maritime,
and that it could never interfere with effect without
the co-operation of some great military Power on the
continent. The system at present pursned required
exertions greater than could be continued till that per;-
ad arrived when England might co-operate with effect.
Nothing, certainly, could be more desirable, either on
principles of policy, or from the natural dictate: of
every mind that had the least lOve of freedom, thasi thit
Spain should be delivered from the yoke of France.
Would to Goo there was any hope in prospect of a
deliverance so glorious, and no man would be more
willing than he was to make every sacrifice for the at.
'lment of • • obi' The same might be

Highness _
Lordships well knew, declared his earnest desire to
deliver back into the hands of his Royal Father, as
speedily as possible, the whole state of the public af-
fairs unimpaired. . Would any of their Lordships
wish now to deprive his Royal Highness of the means
of restoring, in an unimpaired state, that branch of
the public service which was of such high importance
to the real honour, to the true interests, and to the
solid glory of the country ? He should not trespass
farther upon their attention ; but should conclude by
moving an Address to the Prince Regent in answer
to his gracious message. (Similar to that moved and
passed in the Commons )
Lord GRENVILLE said, that one of the topics
which his Noble Friend had adopted in the course of
his speech, was of a nature so singular, that he was
at a loss in what manner to treat it. That topic was,
the propriety, of following the same system with re-
gard to Portugal which was acted on previous to his
Majesty's illness, that no alteration might be experi-
enced on his expected rec.every. He certainly did
feel that their Lordships stood in a peculiar and
unexampled situation ; one, which though it did not
admit of any relaxation of duty on their part, yet in.
fused doubts as to the manner of discharging
Tt was too notorious, that in consequence of the;
calamity which had fallen upon his Majesty, and,
the measures adopted in consequence, the constitd.
tional relations between the Crown and Parliament}
and between Ministers and Parliat.... ', were in some ,
degree suspended. But he- had no idea that, on
this account, the functions of Parliament were to
be suspended also ; or that it was not their Lordships'i
duty to consider, what was the actual situation of the
country, and what its future prospects ; he had no
idea, in fine, that it was their sole duty to look back
to what was the state of the country on the 25th .d 1
October last, and only to keep it in that situation, till
the period of his Majesty's recovery and resumption .
of authority. He did feel, however, even after all the-
glories and triumphs which we were supposed to have
gained since the 2.5 th of October, that our situation
was still disastrous ; that the wheels of that tremen-
dous revolution which had overwhelmed the Conti.
nent were still rolling on with uninterrupted career :
and he should be happy, if Ministers could again
deliver up the country into the hands of his Majesty,
in the same state in which it was at the before-men-
tioned period. Ministers had neither stopped the
wheels of revolution, nor arrested the progress of na-

tack the rights of Peers who does _ in pm
destroy the rights of a common soldier."
MARSITALSEA PRISON.
Lord HOLLAND moved the printing of the ver-
dict and evidence on the Coroner's Inquest in the
case of Cullum, who died in the Marshalsea prison.
His Lordship observed, that he was bound in candour
and justice to state, that upon looking at the evidence
he did not think it altogether justified the verdict;—
there was, however, a great deal of contradiction and
inconsistency in the evidence, and it might be advis-
able to institute some other mode of inquiry. He had
himself examined the prison, and he could state fiom
his own observation that it was utterly deficient in
point of accommodation, the building being old and
ruinous, and there being no separation between debt-
ors and persons sent there by Naval courts-martial,
however heinous their offences. He would have
thought it his duty to have brought this part of the
subject under consideration, had he not been inform-
ed that a new prison was building, and the progress
of which he t, usted would be accelerated.
The Earl of AYLESFORD was anxious that the
subject should . be investigated, and suggested the
propriety of appointing acornmittee for that purpose,,
convinced that it would be found, as the Noble Lord
had Candidly stated, that the evidence did not bear
out the verdict. The new prison that was building
would, he hoped, be fit for the reception of prisoners
by the end of the summer.
The papers were ordered to be printed, and refir-
ed to a Committee, consisting of all the Lords who
have been present this Session.
Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that care
should be taken not to question the Jurors as to the
motives of their verdict—which would be contrary to
the established rules and principles of law.
DOLLARS.
Lord GRENVILLE, before proceeding to the
Order of the Day, wished to move for a paper respec-
ting the recent resolution of the Bank of England to
raise the denomination of the current coin, a resolu-
tion which he considered as most extraordinary. He
thought that he lived undo' a monarchy, and that
the Government alone could alter the denomination
of the current coin of the realm ; but it now appeared
that the Bank of England could exercise this act of
sovereignty, and not only that, but that they could call'
to advise them in its exercise a Committee of hiiida-
jesty's Privy Council, by whose advice it appeared

Day on the Prince Regent's Mt...
The Message of his Royal Highness was then read
by the clerk.
The Marquis WELLESLEY then rose, and said,
that in the observations which he ,should feel it his
duty to offer to their Lordships on the subject of his
Royal Highness the Prince Regent's Message to Par-
liament, he should not enter into any general grounds,
but should rest upon public facts, upon the wisdom
1 and upon the true policy of the measure he should
propose. He thought that it would be disrespectful
-to the House, to harbour a doubt of their disposition
to grant that aid to Portugal which the Prince Re-
' gent's Message expressed his hopes that he sbouid re-
ceive for that object. He could not imagine that in
this emergency—in this great crisis of the fortunes of
our ancient and faithful ally—in the plenitude of ex-
ertions she was making—their Lordships would inter-
pose any check to the giving the full benefit of the
effect of those great exertions in the cause of the in-
dependence of Portugal, against the usurpation and
oppression of the common enemy, which they had al-
ready encouraged and supported. The object of the
message of the Prince Regent rested not upon any spe-
, culation concerning what might arise, but upon the so-
lid ground of experience; on this plain reason, that the
,aid we had already afforded, so far from having pro-
duced any ( which had
predicted,
fects,
diate
and ,
that
sion
tion
been
had
small
great
this t
those' Accra,
into Portugal to animate the courage and to disci-,
pline the habits of that people. By our means, corps
had been raised and embodied with a degree of skill'
and discipline scareely exceeded, and in a time so
much shorter than could have been expected. Their
Lordships -were called upon to see the result of the
measures already taken, not only as it applied to the
army sent to Portugal, but as it applied to the whole
system of measures for the defence of that country :
Pr soldiers who

taini..ent so great an _ Jett. migh.
said as to the importance of the independer.ce of Por-
tugal. It was not necessary to remind the 'louse itf
the existence of our ancient alliance with that coup.
try : England bad 'a manifest interest in supporting
its independence ; and the -common feelings of all
mankind dictated hatted to its oppressor. " Be' then"
said his Lordship, " in managing the affairs of a great
nation, you must not only consult what is your is.
terest, and what are your wishes, but also s consider
this most material point, whether your effort'i are likeiy
to be successful, and whether in misapplyi• lig those ef-
forts by premature or ill-timed exertior „ you may
not only fail of accomplishing your oblect, but eves
weaken your means of defence, and. of 'mterference at
some morefortunate Opportunity." lie would therefoie
once more call upon the I-louse t e cunsider well t!;e
'prospects of the country, to hush; 4nd its resources r
the more noble object of effecting thatwhichin his Mal
'their present efforts were unabl, sto accomplish. lie
would intre?t them to reflect on the great and irrepara-
ble losses which had been suet ained in the attempts
to support the cause of Spain. Let them look, also, at
the state of Portugal. They rere told, indeed, that up
to this moment the enemy ha al not been able toachieve
the conquestof that c ountry. But what was the fact
Why, the British army occupied a ground that vas
ompletely circurnsaibed by the enemy ; and t.1,..s
Noble Lord had not expressed a hope, that with evea
this additional enornamrs sacrifice, Portugal wouldbe
defended, or that even the small slip of territory that
as occupied by the ; trmy would be successfully main-
tained. If it was in our power to defend Portpi,
most gladly would he do it ; but the system that wo
now pursued, while it in no degree promoted the in.
terests of that country, created an mos mous drain on
the resources of this, which might eventually unfit it
for future exertions and a future struggle. On t..t
efforts made by Portugal herself, he shoul sa y notliMg.
He was the last man whomeould wish to detract front
-the merits of men who were armed in tlitlir country's
cause--Goo forbid ! that any such sentiment sho.i,l
drop from his lips. It was the doctrine he h:l
Icing held, that the combination of an irlepl
force with regular tmops, •vtos the mode best adv.
teal for the defence of a country. • Sur the question
he wished to discuss was, of a much higher ill.
ture ; it was, whether there existed any rational pr .
spect of producing any advantage to the public in this
country adequate to the burdens *bids the system
. -
-Ited? This

;-- - -
the to which he had alluded had been adop- ; not merely to those Portuguese sow
ted. Could any argument be wanting, after this,to ' formed regular troops in our pay—the partners in our
convince any one of the depreciation of bank paper ? glories—the partners in the prudence and discipline,
—Probably a wretched quibble would be resorted to, and skill and courage, of the British army under that
in stating that dollars were not the current coin of , great Commander who had the general direction of
the realm, but bank tokens, although they had be- , the whole ; but also to all those other numerous, ad-
-letely a current coin in circulation. His 'vantages which, Mowed to the military service from
..._ _ . _ .
adopted

..ceis Of _
tional calamity ; ieseli he could not but consider as
hastening on with 'accelerated strides ; and he must
say, that a more disastrous proposition could not be
made to that House, than that the Prince Regent
should not look to the principle of administering the
affairs of the country, so as to promote the best advan-
oath ; but should

crex,_ • was a question which deserted atten•
tto even at periods of the greatest' prosperity : " but
now," said his Lordship, " you are mach more bound
to pause upon it, when you reflect what are the cir.
cumstances and situation of your own country. I
have no wish to add to those alarms which are so ge-
nerally. diffused, or to aggravate those fears which
•

come comps ya.
Lordship concluded by moving for a copy of the re- the general system which had been ~ _ and con- tages of his subjects,according to his „.1 7, oi.. . . ...
solution_of the Governor and Directors of the Bank tinned. In this latter view of the militiaei Lotd- act upon those cold and narrow' views, as if it was ' begin to be enteained, 'kith regard to the • financial
of England, for raising the denomination of Silver ships had to look, not mtrelY at the that had his only duty that our affairs should be so adeni. difficulties of theft country,; bet that man's mind mac
Bank Tokens. . been raised—that powerful arm of military service— nistered as to leave them in the same state, and Ibe strangely constructed indeed, who could shut h;s
Earl BATHURST beds no objection to the that mug
also at the numbers of armed peasantry, which conducted upon the same system, in which he found eyes on the financial difficulties and ernbarrassmests
. ' eon, but wished it to podstinctly understood, that might be called the armed mass of the people.— them. Confident he was, that his Royal Highness which every day press upon us." He looked upon
the GovernmPnt were perfectly ready to take Won (ficarr.)—The result had proved and manifested that never viewed the trust that wag commigted to him in 1 [periodi as ettremely ill-timed in the prefent
,•-tiac‘rri- -Ives the revonsibility of the measure. He Je- which he had never heard doubted but in that House, this light ; and their Lordships were also bound to of the Session. He did not know of an!
nferthat it was any proof of the depreciation of bank that we bad created a most efficient and formidable consider in what manner by their counsels they could ' instance made subsidy being proposed before Parlia
paper. It v:as the consequence 4 a rise in the price regular force, aided by a great irregular force. There best promote the interests of their fellow-subjects, un- •
ment had provision for home services. It wai
of silver : whether that rise was owing to an inereas- was, then, a great regular force to act against the fettered by any system, and conscious that thus they the constant practice to provide for the army and
ed demand, combined with an inadequate supply, or enemy's army, with the immense advantages to be de. would best promote the glory and happiness of the navy, and settle the finances of the country, before
wth any other circumstances, was not now the clues rived from s numerous an irregular one, mutually to King. At present he would not enter upon any large I any idea was entertained of making. such grant
tinsunder discussion. His Noble Friend had spoken asiist each other, and to co-operate or concentrate as discussion of our foreign_ policy ; and the opinions las the present for the service of foreign troell•—.
ail a quiisble ; but the fact was, that these were not the exigencies of the case mirk require.
lobeme which belga: about to deliver should rest only on his \ This was the former practice was cot. 0
• the currant coin of the realm, but bank tokens, which tioned this the more particular y, that it mig con- views of theictosi itration of this country. Their great advantage to the public service, because ii
and facilities to the forma-
the Bank had a right to fix at whatever denomination sidered bow much the formation of a great regular Lordships wonld observe, that nd explanation what- enabled the Legislature to hold a just balance betwees
ther pleased; they were issued by the Bank is the force had &en the means ever had bat given of the amount of the assistance the sacrifices to be made and the exertionsresiuir
.. . .
. - •
. ,

.•
Nd any of those bad consequences which some had
listed, had. 4ctually ptoduced great beneficial ef-
s, not ineriy,sui fits, to it _concerned the imme-
e appipaietimfet,tiaistid,, but as it had aroused
stimsuped Portugal to far greater exertions than
cound elm ;wig Wort, upon any occa-
st
exiaidns 'that mtiege, nparalleled by any na-
of tame ezttne: e results of our aid had
. t
a seenWnsittin et all the circumstances,
shewn tilhines it? ' vanishing rapidity : from
ill beginniriali ' . ' (ln the first instance, these
at results had ' ' • .duced under the auspices of
country, and especially by the care and skill of
se valiant and excellent officers, whom we had sent