Star.
London, England, 1827-03-09 00:00:00

done on former o cations, fully defeed-the system of
trade which be had acted upon—.{Cheers). He appre-
hersded that the question before the House was, as to
the principle of the proposed plan, and not as to the
details, and he therefore should confine himself to no-
ticing the arguments which had been adduced for the
'mese of affecting the former. The Hon. Member
for E
s sex (Mr. Western) had argued that the proposed
alteration would prove injurious in consequence of
the change which bad been affected in the cur- -
rewcy by the Bill of 1819. Now he (Mr. Peel) with
the perfect remembrance of having been the origina-
tor of that measure, must confess that he thought
the argument to be derived (torn its operation was
akooether in favour of the pan proposed by it's
Right Honourable Friend. When the Hon. Member
for Essex (Mr. Western) asked them to adhere to the
price of 1815, namely, 80s. per quarter for wheat,
he would call upon the House to say if such a request
could with consistency be perseve red in when the al-
teration which had taken place in the value of money
was remembered?—(Hear, hear!)—Considering the
great difference which had taken place, it would be ins.
possible that the country should pay 80s. a quarter for
corn.—(Hear, hear I)—and he did not understand how
any real friend to the Agriculturists could ask fora
strict adherence to the prices or to tl.e principles
adopted in 1815. The Noble Lord who had proposed
a Resolution would not fail to see that by pressing
that Resolution, should it be carried, he would de-
prive the Honourable Member for Suffolk (Sir T.
Gooch) of an opportunity of proposing the Amend-
went he had hinted at. No man was more attached
to the Agricultural interest than he (Mr. Peel),
and certainly the present was the very last period at
which he could by possibility have been induced to con-
cur in any plan which bethought, or even feared would
tend to their injury. It was fresh in his remembrance
that the agriculturists had sbewn the greatest anxiety
and willingness to relieve the distresses of the manufac-
terers—(Hear, hear.)—lassead of shewing anything
like a feeling of hostility against their rival interests,
as it had been called, they bad come forward with the
most liberal subscriptions, and through his Majesty's
linter no less a sum than 100.0001. bad been collected
from them for the relief of the manufactureri—(Hear )
01111011 i his chief reasons for supporting the proposed
Maim was, that it was the best that had been de-
eimed for enabling the country to 'persevere in impol-
ite(' the currency. He felt anxious that the Bill whit)*
lea bad introduced in 1819 should continue in effect,
end he thought the adoption of the plan before the Hduse
would give security for its doing so—(Hear). He re-
garded the system of 1815 as far more likely to produce
a run upon the Bank of Eigland,and a scarcity of spe-
cie, than was the system proposed by his Right Hon.
Friend. Let the House remember what would be the
consequence of a scarcity. If the price of wheat should,
according to the system of 1815, exceed 80s. import*•
tion would be free, and who should say that the country
would not be inundated to the ultimate prejudice of the
aviculturist. and to the great danger of our currency?
His Hon. Friend (Sir- T. Gooch) bad used as an argu-
ment against the proposed plan, that it would cause
the importation of foreign corn, while the ships which
brought that corn would return in ballast, taking from
its bard specie for their article and not any of our
Manufactures in exchange. It might be tree that
was the case at present. he did not deny that
was so, but be maintained that the system now
* force bad prevented a- mental interchange from
growing up—(Cheers). If corn now reached to
such a price as permitted the importation of foreign
grain, our demand for corn was of necessity greater
than theirs could be for manufactures; and what was
the necorsary consequence of that ? Why, that the gold
left the country and the state of our currency was en-
dangered.—(Hear, hear I) The Hon. Member for Essex
(Mr. Western) said, that the plan proposed was a mere
experiment. He (Mr. Peel) must take the liberty to
:Icb
deny the soundness of that position. Experience proved
that the principle the House was now asked to
act upon was a sound one. From the year 1777 to
1784, it had been in practice, for corn was then per•
witted to be imported on the payment of certain duties.
But it had been argued that the agriculturists had been
injured by that measure, because corn -was imported
subsequent to its adoption. He maintained, however,
that that was a gross fallacy; for if it were not sci, woad
it not be equally applicable to inclosure Bills ?—(Hear.
hear 1) They introduced a certain portion of corn which
would not otherwise have been in the market, and yet
the agriculturists had never complained of them as an
injury. What was the case then as-to the number of
inclosure Bills which had been passed while corn was
not permitted to be imported, and while it was permitted
to be imported ? By a document o hick had been
put into his hand since he had entered the House, it
,appeared that from the Revolution up to the year 1770
(during which time no corn was imported), 690 inclosure
Bills only were passed, while from the year 1771 to that
of 1815 (during which period corn was admitted) no less
than 5,852 inclosure Bills were passed.—(Hear, hear).
—An Hon. Member had said, that sufficient inquiry
had not been made, and had found fault because an
estimate of the prices at which corn could be grown in
the different foreign countries had not been laid upon
the table of the House. It would be, however, ex-
ceedingly difficult to obtain such a mutts. and a very
little consideration would shew the Hon. Gentleman that
if obtained, it would be of very little service. 4t was
the price of foreign grain in this country which ought
to be taken into consideration. There was in general a

ma he, then, the only One disqualified from interfering
„ail the law by the charge of inconsistency ? In the
PlBl9 the Hoe. eber for Wareha submitted
ar
motion to ParliamenMt,m on the subject omf the Cora
La-tts• The agriculturists were thee considered to bir
oder the influence of Mr. Webbe Hall, who presided
over the body to whom he had alluded, and who con-
, gaudy held their sittings near that House. The princi•
flee and the rates of duties then entertained were such
at to him could scarcely be conceived by any sane
mind, The Government declared that it was not their
intention to adopt the mermen recommended; and what
wm then done? A Committee was moved for, which
they mauled ; but upon a division they were defeated.
A Committee was accordingly appointed. but its labours
led to no result. In the next year, 1820, • there was
again great distress, and then the Government thought
it their duty to acquiesce in an inquiry as to measures
vi relief. A Committee was appointed and sat a long
time, the consequence of which was, a very elaborate,
od, as he thought, a very able Report. By that Report
Os Mir was condemned in principle. although nothing
ass done to change it. In 1821 the Committee sat
Rio, and although they then recommended no imme-
diate alteration of the law of 1815, they did adopt the
&pot t of the former year,which condemned the principle
of that law. The Hon. Bart. was a Member of that Com-
mittee, bat did aot agree to the Report. He (Mr. Robis-
on) did agree to it, and he therefore apprehended that be
was in no inconsistency, *hen in 1827 he acted upon
the principles which he declared in 1821. And had
nothing been done in the meantime to prepare the
landed interest for some alteration? The alteration in
the Currency was in itself enough to require some re-
vision of the law. Since that period, too, they had been
*slily occupied in the reduction of taxation. *and no
Ins than twelve millions of taxes had been removed.—
Why, then if the distress of the farmers was attribut-
able to taxation, the cause bad been removed to the
amount in which those taxes was pressed upon them
and their produce. When his Noble Friend complained
that taxation was one of the evils which pressed upon
Igricaltare, he was surprised to hear his Hon. Friend
on the other side tequire the renewal of a tax which
had been taken off—the Wool Tax, with a view to re-
-I;sve agriculture. Now u2on that Wool Tax he wished
to make a few observations. b the county in which
he lived there had been several Meetings, at which the
tar upon wool was discussed, and he had heard a
Brut deal about the wisdom of our ancestors on
nese occasions. It was hard to say at what period of
time those of our ancestors flourished, to whom this re-
mar k was intended to apply. He bad no doubt that in '
former times people talked of the wisdom of their anon.
tots as much as they did now, so that it was very difficult
to say where the wisdom was to be found. Now in this
case of wool he was happy to say, that he could fix the
*wisdom of our ancestors." to be exactly eight yarn
old—(Laughter).--in the year 1819, the high duty.os
wool was first enacted, and with the understacding that
it was to be reduced when it could be dispensed with, ;
lot the relief of the manufacture's. Here, then was the
wisdom of our ancestors, about which so much had
beensaid in this case, and here were they a set of, the
finest grown children at eight years old that had ewer
teen seen—(Laughing).—The next duty which had
been used in the argument was that on timber. Now,
if he was sitting with hit Hon. Friend at dinner—an
engagement which he assured bins would be more
pleasant to his feelinfalrn their present one—(4 laugh)
—he would ask his Friend whether be really knew 1
whit the nature Of this duty on timber was? He would '
a.k him whether he knew when it was imposed, whys
it was increased, and what was its present amount?—
If Gentlemen would give themselves the trouble to in.
ham their own minds upon such subjects rather than
take every thing they beard upon trust, he was sure
they would save themselves from much trouble and
still more error. The duty on timber was a little older
than the wool tax, and not much. It was enacted in
1807, and was to end with the war, and not be stood in
the way in 1815. In 1822 the duty was altered—and
bow? By the inconsiderate speculative rashness of
the Government? No; but by the recommendation
of a Committee, after the fullest inquiry into the sub-
ject. His Noble Friend (Lord Clive) had 'urged the
Necessity Lf protecting Agriculture. The Government
did not dispute it. They. on the contrary, chewed by
this measure that they believed and meant that Agri.
echo, should be protected—.not, indeed, with a partial
rive to the interests of one class alone, but as much for
the sake of those who consumed as those who pro-
duced. The only difference between him and his Noble
Friend was, as to which was the best protection, duty
or prohibition. Now it was clearly shewn by the Hon.
Member for Winchelsea, that an ascending scale of duties
sun at some point or other involve a prohibition. He
entirely coocursed in the opinion, that the law of 1815
had prodoced all the injurious effects which had been
charged upon it. Why should he wish to change that
law if he old not thirat it injurious to the landed interest,
as well as to the community at large ? He was a landed
Gentleman himself ; his connections would be nothing
but for the land; and why should be be suspected of a
wish to cut his own throat? He supported thee mea-
sure because he thought it would be good for them and
for allelasses of t!..e country. He could not conceive
why the agricultutists should hug the present law to
their bosom as a darling. Had there been no agricul-
tural prosperity in this country before the year 1815?
Be was anxious to go back to the principles under
which agriculture long flourished, and from which
he heartily wished - had never departed. Of

r meant if it was not a change in the standard of value.
and to that he would never consent. As haw as he
eentinued in the Government he hoped no such question
would ever be entertained. His Hon. Friend had said
that what he sought was something that would ensure
a certainty in price. That, be was ready to admit, was
a most desirable object. His Right Hon. Friend well
represented the other night, how little of certainty had
existed under the present law, when he showed that the
fluctuations in one year were from 112 s. to 38s. He
would net say that he expected certainty from the
system they now proposed; but as near as the natural
variations of the seasons would allow them to bring
prices to a certainty, he thought that system would
do it. This, they said, their measure was calcu-
lated to do. while the one for which they proposed
it as a substitute, acted in a manner diametrically
the reverse. They were told that the agriculturists
were overwhelmed with dismay at the measure. He
believed no such thing. He had received letters from
different parts of the country, in which, although dif-
fering upon some of the details, persons of large landed
property and interest gave their most unqualified ap-
probation to its principles. He would quote one in-
stance in which such an opinion had been expressed to
him. The letter was from the Agricultural Society at
Lewes. the President of which was Mr. Ellman, a strong
agriculturist, but a well-informed. intelligent man.—
This letter stated that they were perfectly satisfied with
the principle of the measure, but proposed an alteration
in the amount cf duty. He had no doubt but that
many persons would be alarmed at the change.--
Since he had been in office, it had been his lot
to catty into effect many alterations of duties, in not
one of which did he fail to have a great number
of doleful complaints," in which the parties all de.
clued they Must be ruined; and in no one instance,
he believed, had those dreary apprehensions been
realised. When the Bill for introducing Canada Corn
was brought forward—and that was a measure which
had chiefly for its object a great act of justice and expe-
diency, in recognising his Majesty's subjects in Canada,
in extending a token of regard to them, and in cement-
ing the Union bet Ween us and our Colonies in that ince,
resting portion of the Globe--that Bill was opposed as
being sure to inundate the country with corn ; to bring
in floods not Only from Canada, but from the United
States. It was opposed in that -House; but in the
other House—there terror took her seat, and never
were any good people so frightened.. They were
afraid to take this first step, and threw oat the Bill.—
It was afterwards so altered as to allay some of their
fears, and then carried ; and the consequence was, that
in the first year some seventy or eighty thousand quar.
ten of wheat were imported from Canada, and in the
next no more than thirty thousand quarters. He
was convinced that whatever fears might be enter-
tained in respect to the present measure, that they would
ultimately prove no less chimerical. He trusted the
House would see the question in the same light; for, if
be followed the course recommended by the Noble
Lord and his Honourable Friend, they would do that
which must re-produce and keep alive the causes of
distress to the agriculturist, and inflict still greater suf-
fering on the mass of the people, on whose behalf he
there stood up, because he would rather abandon his
own pretensions to consistency, than a coarse which he
was honestly convinced was for their good—(Cheat).
Mr. WESTERN said, that the Noble Lord at the
head or the Ministry in 1822, told him that the object-
of the measures of 1822, was by extending the circa.
lating medium to raise the price of corn. Those men..
wares answered their intended purpose, and in 1824 the
price of corn was advanced to as to place the agricul-
turist in an improved condition, and in 1825, the Right
'Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer came down with his
'celebrated prosperity speech, and stated that all clams
'Of his Majesty's subjects were in a state of happiness
bad prosperity unexampled in the history of the country.
Corn was then at from 675. to 68s. a qr.—(Hear.) Now
the Government came down with a measure to prevent
corn from ever rising again to that price under which
such prosperity had been supported. The object of this
measure was to keep corn at 555. He would tell
the Government, that at that price agriculture must
decline, manufactures must decline, the revenue must
'decline. The country could not go on under such a
measure. The manufacturers were not consumers only,
they were sellers ; and if they bought cheap, they must
sell their manufactures cheap. He thought the Act of
1815 was intended at the time to be a permanent, and
not an experimental measure. If he had not thought
that the Government meant it to be so, he would not
have given them his support. The Right Hon. Gen-
damn might have changed his opinion since then. but
be had not changed his. The Act of 1922 was passed
after a greater degree of attention having been paid to
the subject by the Noble Lord then at the bead of the
Government than ever had been given to it by any
other Minister, or ever would be again. The Noble
Lord attended all the investigations of Committees,
and brought to the subject all the great talents which
he unquestionably possessed. What was now to become
of that Act? It was impossible that the country cuuld
be sustained under a return to prices such as existed
anterior to the war, while the expenditure was so
infinitely greater. These were the opinions main-
tained in the years 1814 and 1815, by the Right
Honourable Gentlemen opposite, who were now the
parents of this measure. The Act of 1815 was recom.
mended to the House on behalf of the whole coming.
nity by the Right Hon. Gentleman, and the then
Chancellor of the Exchequer. He (Mr. Western) as-
..

cial capital, and the propensity to speculate in this
doontry, be thought the system now proposed would
open a field for a constant serie. of jobbing, which must
open
lender price one eternal fluctuation. If the price ever
tame to sixty, foreign corn would come freely into the
market, and the British grower would be shot out. If
hthaevinganged
Chancellora of the Exchequer were pardoned for
his opinions, he hoped he might also
look for pardon for maintaining his; and he should
now chew that he did ;paint/in them, by refusing to
vote for the Speaker leaving the Chair.
Sir T. GOOCH said, that although he was the repre.
sentative of a great agricultural district, he should
always view the measures of that House in relation to
the general interests of the country. There was no ques-
tion upon which the interests of the country more inti•
tamely depended than upon the Corn Laws, and the
subject ought to be approached with the utmost care and
caution. Looking at the piles of Petitions from the
many hundred thousand manufacturers suffering under
extreme distress, the Government would not have done
its duty if it bad not brought forward the present mea-
sure. In 1821, when the table of the House was groan-
ing under the weight of Petitions from the agricultural
interests, no man grumbled more than he did at their
not receiving proper attention from Ministers. The manu-
facturers had been taught to believe that their distresses
arose from the Corn La ws,and Miniuerswere placed in a
difficult situation. These distresses had never, in his opi-
nion, arisen from anything of the sort. Every market was
overstocked with manufactured goods; a child of ten
years of age could now do what an adult could for-
pmerly achieve with his inferior Machinery. This was
the reason why the manufacture's were thrown out of
employment, and were in distres'. Unless a new mar
ket could be found for our goods, the manufacturers
most continue to starve. The Corn Laws would not
give the agriculturist that protection which the other
classes imagine. Sixty shillings a quarter was to be
taken as an average • but the farmer who sold his corn
for the gross sum of sixty shillings in Mark-lane. must
pay its carriage. warehouse room, and other charges,
which would make thereat price of sale to him only 565.
The House and country were ignorant of the price at
which foreign ports could ship corn to England. Neither
Mr. Jacob's Report, nor the Returns from the Consuls,
-afforded a just criterion. Poland had many thousand acres
thrown out of cultivation, and which would be again
productive of corn, if a demand were to be created in
this country for it. This would enable Poland—and
other countries were in a similar predicament—to lower
the price of corn beyond what Government contemplat-
Aa. The rise in the price of wheat, within the last
half century. was only SO per cent. In the same po.
rind, the Poor Rates, and all parish charges, bad in-
creased at least 200 per cent. Wheat was even now lower
in proportion thin other articles. England could feed
its population. The sure way to produce famine in
the country, was to depress the agricultural inte-
rests. He would confess that these was a very
great difference of opinion amongst his agricultural
constituents as to thepresent measure. Many of them had
declared themselves perfectly satisfied with the present
measure. • He would beg the House to consider that the
system of introducing foreign corn would have the effect
of sending gold out of the country. He had known
many ships to bring corn to England and to return in
ballast. Ls the Committee he should propose a higher
Idaty upon the inferior sorts of corn. He should also
I propose* higher pivot than 80e. He thought k ought
il to be 645.
Mr. WARD did not agree with many opinions he
had heard on this subject, but he considered that
the present resolutions were an improvement on the
existing system, and he should therefore support them.
He differed from the Noble Lord, that, in twenty months
hence, a derangement of the currency would be the
consequence of this meisure. Judging from the past,
be thought, on the contrary, that in twenty-two months
the state of the currency would be much better than it
now was. The present law was much more calculated
to affect the currency injuriously than the proposed re-
solutions. He deprecated any departure from the prin-
ciple upon which the currency was settled in 1819.
The embarrassments of the country did not spring out
of that measure, but out of the contraction of their
issues by the country bankers. He was friendly to free
trade in all things. By free trade, he meant trade
without incumbraoce. We had departed from it during
the war, from necessity, from accident, from political
causes; but now that we were in a state of profound
peace, we should approximate as closely as possible to
the principles from which circumstances had compelled
us to depart. His constituents asked nothing more
than this, and in this prayer he should always sup-
port them.
Mr. Secretary PEEL said, he should not have risen
to address the House on the question before it, had be
not been personally alluded to by his Hon. Friend (Sir
E. Knatchbull), the Member for Kent. He was proud
of the compliment which that Hon. Baronet had been
pleased to pay him for the alterations he had ventured
to propose in the Criminal Jurisprudence of the country.
His Hon. Friend however had accompanied that cone.
pliment by a wish that the measure then before the
House had been introduced with as much caution and
only after as much inquiry as he (Mr. Peel) had made
before he submitted his propositions respecting the'
Criminal Laws. But in reply to that wish, bp would
call the attention of the Hon. Baronet to the simple
fact, that the alterations which he had suggested in the
Criminal Laws could be carried into effect at any pe-
riod; whereas such questions as that before the House

-say they . _ , ,a; .. q..,.. .n gen...
the Petitioners who had come before the House, one seated to the principles up-on which 'that measure was could be taken into consideration, with real and lasting very great difhtence between the price in London and
patty had prayed for the repeal of the Corn Laws, and founded and carried, and he saw no reason to change benefit, only at particular periods. The present time the price, for instance, at Dantzic. In 1795, there was a
another that they might be continued without alteration. them. He could shew from Mr. Jacob's Report, and appeared to him most fir, and the question was one difference of 20s. Id. and if to that were added the et.
Other s, and as he thought them the wisest, had prayed from the returns of his Majesty's Consuls, that although that should not be left to the day of dearth or famine. He penses of freightage; kc. and the duties proposed by the
that in dealing with those laws, the House would look great fluctuations did take place under that Bill, yet must also assure the Hon. Baronet and the House, that Resolutions, it would be inmossibleeven to suppose that
with a careful regard to all the various interests con- that still greater ones occurred at the same time in all if any blame was to be attached to the proposed altera- any injury would be sustained, in consequence of its
cerned. But as the question stood, with complaints other countries except France, where the restrictive sys. tions, he was prepared to take his full share of such adoption, by the British grower—(Hear, hear).—But if
continually made cf the value of property being onset- tem was still more closely observed. In 1817, the floc. censure, for the plan submitted to the House by his bad effects would result from the proposed alteration
'led, and all transactions of rent and leases suspended, tuations in this country were from 925. to 4Ss. in Berlin Right Hon. Friend bad his most cordial approbation being carried into effect, why did they not take place
;he Government would have been shrinking from their they were from 6.55. 10d. to 255. 4d. in Warsaw and --(Hear, hear).— He would go further, and take that in consequence of the Act of 1806, which opened the
duty, if they had not come forward with measures for Prague from 51s. to ISt. in Cracow from 575. to opportunity of stating, that had the lamented indisposi- British ports to Irish corn ?—(Hear). Previous to the
11,c consideration and sanction of the House; The Hon. 13s. sd. in Dantzic from 90s. to 225. in Vienna Lion of his Right Honourable Friend continued, and his passing of that Act, cora from Ireland was admitted
Baronet had said this was not the time, because-the cur- from 112 s. to 17s. in Munich from 120 s. to 255. (the colleagues bad thought it right, he should have been only on the payment of a very high duty, but that mea-
tency was not settled. Why he (Mr. Robinson) thought fluctuation at Frankfort we could not hear); in Ham- ready and anxious to bring forward the plan which had sure had produced no injurious results. The British
the currency was settled. He thought that his Right burgh from 81s. 9d. to 21s. in France from Bs. been so ably introduced by his Right Hon. Friend, not grower had found no occasion to complain, though
Hon. Friend had passed a Bill in the year 1819, re- 4d. per bushel, to 4s. 3d. Thus it was unfair to charge with mere official dryness, but with that interest and Whom' was low priced io behead, and the land was
storing the currency to the state in which it was pre- these fluctuations upon the law, when it was clear that seal which would have proved, at least, that it bad his richer. Bad effects had been feared, but they had never
• 'iota to the suspension of cash payments. The House, other causes, extending themselves to all other Coun- hearty concurrence—(Cheers).--He thought it right to taken place. He was most decidedly of opinion that the
too, last year passed another Act hastening the period tries, must have influenced them. Those who advocated make that remark; and he could not avoid adding chief effect of the measure before the House would be
at which the resumption of cash payments should be a free trade in Corn overlooked the danger and impossi- that, in his opinion, never had a public man been dealt to produce something like a regularity in the prices,
completed. He did not know, theor what this settle- bility of that course. They took no notice of the fact. snore hardly by them than his Right Honourable and if it should (as he believed it would) caw-
'ltem of the currency meant. He suspected that that we must be left to depend upon the caprice of Friend the President of the Board of Trade—(Heat)— to vary in no greater a degree than from
ire real meaning was an alteration of the standard.— foreigners, and in time of war to the hostility of an He regretted the absence of his Right Hon. Friend, and that circumstance would in itself render
They had heard much of the connection of these two enemy; that we enabled our enemies to refuse subsist• he still more regretted the cause of that absence; highly desirable—(Hear, hear.)—lt would
questions of corn and currency, and of what was called ence to our starving people, and to shut our manufae. but he trusted the time would, soon arrive when be effect of giving a steadiness to the value of
5" equitable adjustment. He knew not what this lures out of the market. Looking at the state of corn- world resume his place in that Howe; and, as he had petty, and would be one of the greatest

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cause. dieni
5.55. to 655.
its adoption
ld halm the
t landed pro-
boon to titer