Star.
London, England, 1819-02-02 00:00:00

RECOVERY OF SMALL DEBTS

•
The Simms of LONDON a and Minmsaca pressured Petition
from the Lord Mayor, Alderinen, and Coninvm Council of the
City of London, praying for an -Amendment of the Law us It
now stood respecting the Recovery of Small Debt.. The Peti-
tion was read, and leave given to bring in a BttL

NEW PRISON, LONDON'. .
The same Sheriffs again. appeared at the Bar of
the House, and presented a Petition from the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen, and Corporation of the City of,
London,. praying for leave to appropriate a certain
portion of the Unclaimed Dividends of the Orphan
Fund, towards the liquidation of the expenses attend-
ing the New Prison.
Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN observed, that it
might be of cornsiderable•importance that the Mem-
bers for Southwark should become acqiiainted with
the entire nature. and bearings of this Bill ; and he,
therefore begged leave to Move—" That the Petitiun
be•laid on the table."

Mr. HOLME SUMNER, recollecting a Motion
which he had the honour of making last Sesrion of
Parliament for an account of the City of London
Revenue, could not help expressing his surprise that
this Corporation should now come to Parliament for
pecuniary aid,. before it complied 'with the orders of
the House for the account alluded to. It would have
been much more consistent with propriety, to have
first satisfied the House on the extent and application
of the funds now possessed by the City of London,
than to have made this precipitate demand in aid of
their circumstances. It was well known that the
City of London had acted with uncommon shyness ;
indeed, they had. treated. the Orders of the House
with unaccountable, perhaps culpable, silence. After
a lapse of two months, no answer had been given ;
and then such an answer had been received as was
by no means. satisfactory. The House ought, there-
fore, now to be completely of opinion, that the re-
quired aid should not be grunted till it received a
full explan:aiorl of the extent and application of the
present Funds of the City of London.
Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAN observed, that as
he was not a Member of the last Parliament, he
'hoped the Honourable Member would not attribute
to him any of the omissipns or inattentions of which
he now complained. The Honourable Alderman did
not wish to go into a discuision of the subject at the
present moment. He had not taken any part in the
affair, either at the time alluded to, or at that now
, under the consideration of the House. But he was
fully warranted in saying, that the City of London
had been; and were now, ready to satisfy the House
regarding their Funds. He now took the opportu-
nity of remarking, that as the City of London not
,only supported their own prisons, but often also die:
.prison's of the county of Middlesex, they were thero.
fore,irery fairly and, fully entitled to apply tb'Parliz?
want for pecuniary aid on such an emergency.
Mr. SerjeanPONSLOW said, that the statements
which were ordered by the House ought to have
.been long since presented. It. the Corporation or the
City -of London had merely called for a local ACt,
perhaps his objections to its being granted might
not have been Jo strong. But when the Members of
that Body called for an Act that, affected the inte-
rests of many Counties, merely because they sup-
ported more prisoners than they were bound to do,
be should certainly give it his decisive negative. If
the Corporation supported •more prisons than they
were strictly bound to do, there were, he doubted
not, corresponding advantages which resulted from
the exercise of so much generosity. He would op-
pose the prayer of the Petition, until a satisfactory
account of its funds was laid before, the house.
The Petition was then' ordered to lie on the table.
MOCK AUCTIONGe:

The Sheriffs appeared • againittlAhe Bar of the
frobse, and presented another Petition from the Lord
Mayor, Aldermen, aid Common Connell; of the
City
.dilLerndon; praying for some law to suppress
or prohibit all Mock Auctions, now arrived to such
an intolerable public nuisance, as well as public im-
position and delinquency.
Mr: Alderman WAITIIMAN thought this Peti-
tion contained grounds of complaint of the first pub-
lic importance. lie was aware, that from its pecu-
liar nature it ought, as a preliminary step, to receive
the concurrence of his Majesty's .Ministers. If it
were thought by them a matter of such general
utility as he had described, he was not afraid of
their consent. He would therefore, for the present,
here propose, that the Petition should lie on the
table: and on a future day he would move fur the
appointment of a committee of Inquiry.
.Ordered that the Petition do lie on the table.

INSOLVENT DEBTORS.
A tptition from the Coryoration of London, pray-
ing that the Ilonse would not allow the renewal oft
the Insolvent Debtors Act, was presented at the ltar,
by the Sheriffs. •
Mr."WAITHMA,N.said, -that this subject was not
inferior in iMpoltance to any which had come this
Session before the House, not excepting even the
subject of the criminal laws. The City of London,
he could say from personal observation, was distin-
guished for humanity, and disposed to give every as-
sistapce to persons in" distress ; but it could not view
this Act as either humane or salutary. Whatever'
might have been the intention of the Act, its effect
was to break down the fair trader, to encourage vice,
and to give a deadly blow to commercial confidence
—(Hear, hear).—lt even affected the Constitution it-
self; for it had superseded the trial by Jury, and in-
troduced the authority of one individual, who deci-
ded upon more property.than all the Judges together.
He was aware that returns of the number of debtors,
their debts, and their dividends bad been at several
times laid' behire the house, but those facts might
have escaped the recollection of Members, lie sladd,.

,perhaps, astonish the House by reading to int
statement which was equally accessible to -
others as to him. During the first three ye;irs of
Act, that was, down to March 8, 1815, the
amounted to Et3,030,(YJ0, and the dividends to
farthing in the pound!—(ietzr, hear).-1; was
supposed that this was through the carelessne:s
creditors themselves, and the law was 2tldluied
meet this evil ; but from March 8, 1816, to NI,
1, 1817, the number of debtors WIS 91r4, and
amount of their debts nearly 0,000,000.
stated the eividend in the former case to be one,
thing ; he ought to have stated it the. fan?' ter of
farthing. The efTect then of the amendrnext
that it raised this
,dividehl to a halfpenny.
then was the e,lorinous sum of 1.3.5,(190,006....i,
huger than the amount of the property-tax_
in the course of five years from the pmperty of
Most labot ions, the most industrious, the mostl
and the most moral of his Majesty's subj
(Hear, /tear).—The habits, *the morals, the
conduct of the fair trader were more virtuous,
chaste, than either those of- the needy and dir
who'were driven by necessity into misconduct,
those of the affluent, who felt not, and often di:
garded the value of an establithed character for:
tendon and fidelity—(hear, hear).—lie objecte,ll
this Act, not merely en thc part of traders, beta!
on the part of debtors themselves. All insoh
debtors, whatever 'might have been the distinction
their conduct, were tressed alike—the most her,
and unfortunate as the most proftigate--ifkor' I
He could appeal to the Honourable and Le,
Gentleman (Mr. Serse.mt Onslow) who had
from him on ano::,-.r sobject, and ask him, whet'
be had not ob, Tved, in his official ch tracter,
creditors wore always most lenient to delztorsv
had honestly become insolvent? On this point
was sure of the Honourable and Learred Meml
concurrence. When so much property was
without leaving any dividend, it was not possible
suppose the conduct of debtors honest. If an lir
man, who traded with £lO,OOO of borrowed meat
found that the half of it was gone, would he si
call together his creditors, and give them what
mained ? Most of the insolvencres were occasio-
by profligate debtor; who left to their creditor:
resource but to fbllow them to plison. He held pap
in his hand, which he had received from bberiff's c
fivers. whom debtors had of themselves a.l!ted to ai
company them to prison—(hear, hear, hear).-11
sum in each case was trifling, but the amoura of 11
whole was 4215;000. He was sorry to hare so 1.
obtruded himself on the attention of the How
(Hear, hear).—He should now more that the

rion be laid on the table ; after which he should
for some returns, similar to former returns on
same subject.
Mr. LITTLE'CON so fully concurred with
Worthy AlJorniam that he co.ild not refrain fn
expressing his opinion. 'The motives of those w
had introduced the measure might have been j 1
and humane. The prevention of long impris
was evidently a principal object with them; but,
Act was productive of. more injustice to the cre,iitc
than justice-to the debtor.
• 311 BROUGHAM agreed with his Honourabl
Friend, the worthy Alderman, and with the Honou
able-Crestleman on the other side of the House, t
she subject was of the highest importance. The
that decided upon such immense property was
important to the commercial part of the commas,.
lint he would not now anticipate observations
would be more suitable when the subject shoe'

_ .
fully discussed—(Hear, hear.) He thought i: to-
fair, that the statements of the Honoutzli.!
Member should come before the House and gofon'.
to the country, without protesting against those t2t,
meats, or rather against onepoint of view in
the statements were made to appear. The worth)
Alderman had objected to the Act, not by eompu
ing the state of rungs after the Act had passed
whatit had been before that period, but by contp;,
ing it with an ideal state of things which had neve
existed—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Bill—it had Ix,
Lord Redesdale's Bill, and had been sent to EL
House front the Lords—had been intended to di7
nish, and if posible prevent, the evils %Ali&
now ns.criLed to it. It might be objected to in tea
points, and perhap, improved. There. was one
stance in his honourable hiend's statement of
easy it was to excite a clamour against an Act,
though he certainly imputed no such motive to
worthy Alderman. The worthy Alderman had:
that 1:15,000,600, a punt larger than the ;name,
had been taken frotn the honed dealers; and left
to be infetred, that this had been done by the hue
vent Act ; b:a he would tat that but for that
the creditors would not 'have got even the di; it
cf a farthing in the pound.
The Petition was ordered to be laid on the table.
Mr. WAITHMAN moved for a Return of tk!
Number of Insolvent Debtors discharged up to
Ist of February, 1819, their Debts and their Div
dends.—Ordered.

Mr. COURTENAY moved Or the Rerun of :*
;slumber of those remanded up to the same pa
and the 'grounds on which they had been remaa,:.e.
Ordered.

wicsmaiNsTat HUSTINGS BILL.

Mr. COURTENAY presented the Report of 11
Committee upon the Westminster Hustings
moved that the same be read to•m:orrow. _

Mr. HUME boiled that the Honourable Men' '
would not press the reading of the Bill, for he cr•
ceived-there were some circumstances that demarAka
inquiry. He expected to have several Petition!
present on the subject, and he believed he shoui,:'.•
able to prove that there • existed ample funds v." 7
which the expense; of the Elections ought to bel"'
The nature of the Bill now endeavoured to be
tied through the House was hostile to the princirls
of the British Constitution, and by which the CiLY
Westminster was rendered totally different from an"
other place in the United Kingdom. Upon a :tog.
occasion, one of the three candidates had been
ged £9OO as his proportion of die expenses,
according to this Bill, would be a fine unposed 111',
every candidate who should offer for that City. is
believed the Dean and Chtpter of Westminster, '7.
der whont the Bailiff acted, possessed ample f••••-t.
which should be' appropriated to this purPose• r
therefore hoped that before the Bill WIS passe)
would be referred to a Coniroittix for further tuqiD
The Hon. GREY RENNET said, that in 18IS •
Bill, which was• now on the eve of expiring.

having for its object to regulate the
„cgs
of the Election. As CO the expenses be-
ne by the candidates, it was evident that such
re was intended to prevent any candidate,
lives of obstinacy or resentment, to extend
to the utmost period. He did not know
Dean and Chapter possessed funds appli-
such purpose, nor was he acquainted with
that imposed the expenses attending the
upon the High Bailiff. He only requested
Act might•be renewed for twelve months.
:O WEN said it was incumbent upon the-
m pmvidu a proper place for Elections ; and
ontrary to justice that the expenses should
the candidate. He would ask the Honour-
atleman, whether the .doubt that was enter-
respecting funds wider the confrOul of the
Id Chapter was not a sufficient reason upon
moderate delay should be acceded ? If it
w found that no such fliads existed, then he
:d the expenses should be defrayed by the in-
-3 of Westminster. Under these circumstances
‘1 the Honourable Gentleman would not press
!jog of the Bin.
I.IIIDLEY observed, he thought it wouldbe
,r the expengcs to fall on the inhabitants. It
:d to him.that they should be'clefmyed by the
rtes.

WYNNE could not see any reason why the
should be paid either by the candidates or
di Bailiff. BOth acted in obedience to the
and the High Bailiff would be liable to
Ihe did not pay obedience to it. He thought,
'spenses were incurred for the benefit of flit
Ited, there should be a general tax levied
lout the City of Westminster for that purpose,
that case could erect a permanent building
business. _ _ _

BENT saki, that as candidates, for Westmin•

ire brought forward against their Consent, the
should be borne by the parties.
DENMAN said, he himself felt the difficulty.
- - -

espect to the Bill, he confessed himself en- -
morant of its pros isions, and he believed there
nv much better informed than himself on the
• There was one particular he must submit
mention of the House : he was ignorant of the
the subject, and it appeared to him quite in-
Able, that, if the High Bailiff could recover his
ises by an action at law, what reason existed for
rthet Act on the subject?
Hon. G. BENNET.—Why, because the Law
'only expire.
DENMAN continued.—lf then the Law is
to expire, that is the strongest argument to
and not to proceed in a hasty manner - it
be giving it the effect of an es post facto law.
Hon. G. BENNET said, he merely proposed

Itinuance of the Act for one year ; at did not
.

ny resemblance to an ex post facto law ; every
.r, if he would refer .to the *stapite Book,
inform himself of its nature. He did.not per-
ay cause for delay ; as to the Petitions to which
n. Member had alluded, he believed he should.

bled to give a satisfactory answer to the:nose&
the more-confident, because.he had hid an in:,
with one of the principalpetitioners.
rd A. HAMILTON proposed, that instead of
Drd Tuesd:ty," the Bill should be read a third'
nr Friday next. <
11. SUMNER asked whether the Ron. Oen.
would 'consent to the renewal-Of the until=
of April, ISI9 ? . •
Han. G. BENNET replied, that the. liontinr-
jentleman had selected rather an- unfortunate
for its termination 4 he would, however, agree
being litoited to the I.sth of May. • •
. HUME expressed himself surprised at the
ct of the Hon. Gentleman. -Upokothei occa-

he was the first to institute inquiry, and zea•
to contend against the course he had adopted;
:hat was the present proceeding hut" getting the
passed, and inquiring afterviards•?' • :
'le Bill ordered to be read i Alia dine to-morrow.
• * ' BANlCYttiiiildTioNll6
r. S. WORTLEY presented a Petition from
in Traders, Manufacturers, and Persons residing
reds, stating, they conceived the present was not
wenient season for the resumption of Cash Pay-
:s by the Bank of England ; that such a measure
Id be prejudicial to •the trade of the country,
t the ratet of exchange' against this country, and
ing that its consideration might be postponed
a future period. •
Ir. TIERNEY wished to be • infortr-xl whether
Petition was the result of a public meeting, be-
he had received a letter froM Leeds complain-

that such a Petitioit'had been handed about
; and, as he understood Bankers were con.,
:ed in the matter, it was easy to conceive that
pns who had received accommodations might be
ienced to sign such Petitions. He wished, as he
,:istood some other Petitions were to be present-
tha they Would be obtained at the present time,
"ise he would examine whether they were not

ci copies of each ether.
4. S. WOEITLtY said, the Petitioners ware per.
of respectability, and the Bakers had no con.
whatever in the business.

h. 'fIERNEY thought the names of same of The'
,:.ioners were similar to the Bankers of that City ;
:aps the lion. Gentleman could inform him who
rrsons were ?
'lr. S. WORTLEY replied, they are their Sons.
I'IMNEY thanked the Hon. Gentleman for
nmunLating more information than he expected.
The Petition was ordered to lie on the table.

MALEEY BILL.
741'. S. WCiRTLEY brought in a Bill to regulate
Cutlery Trade.—Read a first time, and ordered
be reai the second time on Wednesday next.

GENERAL GOURGAUD.
Mr. DOUGLAS, for the purpose of complaint,
-hid to be informed of the particulars. of the Arrett
Gontgaudlately in this 'country, um! the
if his sudden expulsiOn to the Continent? The,
al complained that he had been refused a hear-
before the Council as he had earnestly solicited ;
,1,1 that he had experienced the most cruel usage in
t to his pavrs, Ste.
Mr. cuvr. (Under Secretary of State) would not
2r into the minutes of the case, 3S it Would be
.mit-4; up their attention to little purpose, He would
rcly assure the House, that no appeal had been
it in the manner represented for a hearing before
Council. Those who had been intrusted with the

arrest, &e. were desired to afford the Foreigner
every indulgence consistent with the nature of the
Act of Parliament. . From the persons who had at- •
tended on the'occisioo, he had received information
that the person alluded to had never solicited for a
hearing before the Council. He had only required
to be brought before a Magistrate. Ills papers had
been transmitted to him according to the address
given by himself. It had been illiberally reported,
that the seals of the papers had been broken open,
and other unnecessary indignities exercised. He,
however, could assure the House, that there was no
truth in such an assertion. The whole progress of
conveyance of those papers had been carefully traced,
and the most satisfactory answers had been received.
CoMmunications had been made flout Cuxhaven and
other places, and.. the same satisfactory answers re-
ceived. It was fully ascertained, that the port-folio
of the Foreigner had been delivered to himself per-
sonally, with the seals unopened.
Mr. DOUGLAS wished to know if any improper
freedom had been taken at the Foreign Office ?
Mr. CLIVE knew of no impropriety—unless, for
the better security, an additional cover to the papers
'could be construed into such an act.
. This business was then dropped.
OXFORD PETITION.
...the Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned
debate respecting the Oxford Petition, having been
read, on Mr.. Wynne's motion,
Sir. A. PIGGOTT stated that the Petition having
been printed, all must be acquainted with its nature;
considering himself in the same situation as if he
weie called noon to deliver a judicial- opinion, he
should not hesitate to declare that he regarded it as
an election Petition, for it complained of an-improper
and corrupt interference in the return of a Member.
This Petition was now in the possession of thefloiise,
and the House had no discretion .whatever on the
subject, but must act as the law required. The 10th
.of his Majesty prescribed the mode to, be adopted on
such occasions, ant from that mode it was impos-
sible to depart. To allow the form of the Petition to
be altered, and to admit that it was represented with.
vario intuito, would be a great evasion of that Act
highly to be depreciated. He did not mean to deny
to the House the power of punishing offenders and.
vindicating its privileges, either by its own acts, or
by instituting suits at law ; but the present Petition
fell under a particular Act, according to the provi-
sions of which its merits must be tried. It would,
therefore, be impossible for the House to agree with
the presenemotion, which was, that the Petition lie.
on the:table ;'-but should that motion be withdrawn.
• as he trustedit would, then the regular or4er would
be made, as usual in cases of Petitions complaining
of undue returns. • •

Mr. DEN MAN concurred in considering the pre-
low as an Election Petition. He had thought that it
might have been allowed to be withdrawn, in order
to be presented in• a different shape. He should have
no objection, however, to withdraw the motion, that
it lie on the :able.

Mr. BANKES- conceived no doubt could be enter-1
tained of the present Petition being attEleelion Petition.
The SPEAKER observed; that the ActOl-Parlia-'
talent said, that when .an. Election PetitiOn had been
presented, an order should .be Fade kix its consider
tad& on some partrcular day, and thb Oarlies pro-
froni withdrawing:it. 'As no 2rider .of the
kind had yet been made out, the PetitiOn Might still
-be withdrawn, and 'anotlitti ..pt'egeiatel•ltefoze ;text
Thursday. - • ' - • - • :•; •••
- Mr. WYNNE contended, tbat.,the• Petiti 4is an
Election Petition hi paint of stibslince, for the facts
-stated, if established, wouldA3rove the agency of the
Noble Duke in effecting the return. He should be
sorry to see it withdrawn•hroider to-bring another
forward in its stead, -which:should be of a different
nature, as the subject would. then be referred to a
jurisdiction where witnesses would not be examined
, upon oath.
Mr. TENNYSON contended that the Petition was
not an -Election Petition, but merely called on the
House to vindicate its own privileges. The facts
asset ted could not affect the return of the Honourable
Member for Oxford, unless a connexion was proved
between him and the Noble Duke,.so- as to shew that
the latter .had been his Agent. He was convinced
that the language of the Petition was so framed as
to avoid bringing the return into question. If that
was the intention of the Petitioners, to refer the Peti-
tion to a Select Committee would make it fall to the
ground, as they would. not enter into.the recogni-
. zances required. He thought. it therefore desirable
that it should be referred to a Committee of Privi-
leges. An Election Committee would not be bound
tc make any Report; and in a case like the present,
he thought that it was of importance that a Report
should be produce,d.
Mr. BATHURST concurred with what had ap-
peared to be the general sense of the HOuse. The
Petition was clearly an Election Petition. If the
facts asserted were proved, the Noble Duke must
certainly be viewed in the light of an Agent, and if i
it were shewn that the return had been obtained by
bribery, the Select Committee would .report it void.
As there appeared no doubt of the nature of the. P-
etition, the House had no other course to take than
that determined by the Act, and the Petition must
go to the tribunal fixed for its consideration.
The question that the Petition lie on the table was
then put from the Chair and negatived.
Tile SPEAKER. then suggested the propriety of
entering a Resolution upon the, Journali, beforere-
cording the decision of the House,; to state the mo-
tion which had been made, the adjournment of the,
debate, and that it had appeared -to the House that
the Petition was an Election Petition.
Mr. BANKES immediately moved ,a Resolution
to the effect that the Oxford Petition did,.appear to
be a Petition complaining of an undue return for the
said City, which was agreed to ; and on a, second
motion by the same Honourable Member, the Pet-
ition was ordered 'to be taken into consideration on
the 9th of March nett.
CADIZ OF HIS MAJESTY S PE.R3O)L . •
On the Motion of the CHANCELLOR or tbodens-
uusk, the second reading of the Bill providing for
the care of his Majesty's person, was fixed foe next
Thursday.

CONIMITTIS OF SUPPLI%
The CHANCELLOK• of the EXCHEQUER
moved, that the House resolve itself into a comMit-
tee of Supply.:—Agyeed to. . - .
um moved that the Arm), and Navy Estimate',

and the Exchequer Bills, be referred: to the said Com-
mittee, which was also agreed to.—The House then
resoled itself into a Committee of Supply.

• NAVY ESTIMATES.
Sir GEORGE WAR'RENDER should Only state,
in moving the Estimates for the-Navy, that the num-
ber of seamen would be the.same as last year; yet a
considerable saving had taken place in that branch of
the public expenditure ; and that saving had been ef-
fected by placing the Whole of the naval force kept
up in a state of acti:ity, ik,hich supplied the defi-
ciency of numbers, and rendered their increaseunne-
cessary. He then moved that a force not exceeding
20,000 men, including 6,000 marines, he employed
in his Majesty's sea service for thirteen lunar months;
commencing on the Ist of January, 1819.
Mr. ROBA wrs did not mean to oppose the Reso-
lution, but should take this opportunity of inquiring
whether any measure was in contemplation to dirni •
nish if not to remove altogether the evils of impress-
ment? He considered the present period most pro-
pitious for such an improvement.
Sir G. WARRENDER admitted that the question
was one of great importance, but it also wits one on
which the Honourable Member could not expect him
to give any other answer, than that it was a poineon
which Government were willing to do all in their
power, but without encouraging the . least expecta.
don that it was possible to dispense with an ancient
system, the benefits of which sufficiently overba-
lanced its evils. Effective measures, however, had
been taken to ameliorate, the condition of the, sailors,
and among the rest- a registry of seamen had been
adopted, which gave the means of easily assembling
a better kind of force than formerly. He then pro-
posed the following grants, which wereagreed to:
For wages for 20,000 men for a yeart'at £2. 3s. 6d. a
month per man - £560,500
. .
For victualling the said force for the same period, at
# 2,-3s. 44. a month per•man • - - 520,000
For clothing and wear and tear, and £91,000 for ord-
sauce on board the ships kept on actual service ' 532,000
ARMY ISTIMA;ES.
Lord PALMERSTON intended to apply at pre.
sent for only one million on account of. the Army
Estimates, the whole of which would probably be
found not much to exceed, if they did at.all, the suns
of three millions. He then proposed a grant of
£1,000,000 on account, -for defraying the charge of
the land service at home and abroad, with the excep-
tions of the regiments serving. inthe. Mediterranean
and the East Indies.
Mr. CALCRAFT would not oppose the grant,
but would be glad to know how the Noble Lord had
proceeded when his vote was exhausted, which must
have been on the 424th. of Deoember last; and how he
had been enabled to continue to-pay the Army with-
out the aid of Parliament? The vote ended on' the
25th of December, 1818, and we Were now in Fe-
bruary, 1819 ; so that more than a month had elap-
sed since the last grant must have become exhausted.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose
.to answer the lion. Gentleman, as his question applied
to every lathes branch of the public service, as well
as to the payment of the Artily._ Although the year
for which the grant had been made had expired, yet
the' Wholeofithe money had not then beentxrended;
-and as lung as any of the sums granted, _whether for.
A. Army, the Navy,-or -the Ordnance .orarry other
Department, were .not entirely.applied, the Eietu-
tire Government took upoNitsilf to apply; them to
'the Paiticular services for wirich they hattbeen voted,
supplies had been obtained. In fact, post
of the services were • patch nat. prospectively, but' re:
trospec tively, to thatAtalse end of,tbelating. tliereefere
various surplusses, applicable to their respective
partrhents. Thtofie Grant for 1818 had ctsrismenr
ced in December', but fiad-not begun to be issued till
the middle of February, He could see no irregula-
rity in the course pursued.
The Grant was then agreed to. '
EXCHEQUER BILLS
. AND THE BANK.
The CHANCEL LOR ofihe EXCHEQUER moved
that a sum not exceeding 21,9444,3004 be granted to
his Majesty, to.pay off and discharge ahe Exchequer'
Bills issued under two Acts for the last Parliament, au-
thorising the emission 0f11,000,0001. and 34.,600,0001:
in Exchequerflills.
• Mr. GRENFELL should seize this opportunity of
inquring whether the Right
...Hon. Gentleman had
'entered into.any arrangement with the Bank respect-
ing the loan of three millions without interest, made
by the Bank in former years to the Government, in
consideration of the balances of public money which
remained in their hands. This was a fact known by
all. He believed that that arrangement had ceased
last April, so that, instead of deriving any advantage
from the accumulation of public money in the hands
of the Bank, the country paid to that establishment
four per cent. interest on those three millions, or
120,0001. per annum, whilst the Bank held an enor-
"nous mass of public property, totally unproductive
to the public, but not so to its holders! He should
take another occasion of calling the attention of the
JEfouse to so important a subject, unless the Right Ho-
nourable Gentleman should he able to state that some
arrangement was now negotiating between the Bank
and the Government, to remove so just a ground of
Complaint. •
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had
not thought'it necessary to enter into an explanation
on this point, as the period when the transactions of
the Government with the Bank were to come before,
the. House were so. close at hand. • • With,respect to
the three millions advanced by.the Bank,,,and coati-
nued since the last April by Act .of:raylialpent: at
four and a half per ceat.,intereit, aniSahe balances of
pUblic money,• both•had.been a subject of _discussion
Iretween his -Majesty) .Cicaernment. 20.. the Bank.
Prepositions•had been made forlapplykstg the whole
f-the latter to the public seririees.B4o94.balanc'eg
themselves had. been, greatly alitnittishscl ;by the re-
duction of theamblie expenditure and ,othge...c:tose.:,l
They did net' amount last year to oqrealnin pne-.
half *hat they .had been at periods to;Vhich the
rHonougablcOeudegian.to ahe thße
naillions .in :question, ,no..ittictest—bad.yet.been, paid
miwn therm and whether some arrangement could-be
made of ayetrospective nature, .remained to be.aa-
.-certtined: He.should now repeat the, austver whjelr.
he-had.givan to the Henciurable Gentleiaranato.liad
of 'the repayment of tbs'eipit
jians.dial.to the Bank, as that answer sit!iiiett:ndr tn
:hive beentOrtectly linderStood in
.siorip Orthe.ptlblit
'
punts. What 1 .s'o- '— 14ad "
stared was,•
'eight milliOta See lad..already been pal's;' a %ACP

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