Star.
London, England, 1829-06-06 00:00:00

flow ne.ooola .one, anti 180,000 in rthe other, at the
resew moment remitting. iostrection.
Mr. HUME expressed 'the' pleasure be • had-felt at,
bearing the observations of the Noble Lord. It would
be, indeed, a most important matter to open the doors
of public offices to the natives of India. By this means
they would be encouraged to become good and • useful
'subjects. inasmuch as the only way to make men ho-
nourable was to teak in them. He could, however,
give histestimony that the charges of dishonesty so
.often advanced against the natives oflndia were grossly
libellous. and altogether without foundation.
Mr. FERGUSSON knew many of the individuals
whose nen:ea were attached to the petition, and knew
that they were, adequate to the discharge of any function.
It was with great reason they uttered their complaints
to the House ot Commons, by whom the matter ought
tb be duly considered. He could see no reason why
the natives should not be permitted to serve on Grand
Juries, for they were often eminently qualified. He
egreei with the Hon. Gentleman that it was above all,
oeces-ary to secure the due administration of justice in
ladle, and to elevate instead of lower the people of that
country in the scale of humanity. He had had great
'experience in India, and was far from considering them
inferior in the scale of morals to those of comparative
classes in Great Britain.
Sir C. FORBES coincide.' in the view taken by the
Honourable Member who had spoken last, and hoped
the prayer of the petition would be speedily granted.
While in India he had frequently served on Petty Juries
with natives, and had often been as well, nay more,
satisfied with them than with the people of his own
country. It had fequently fallen to his lot to be
foreman of a Grand Jury, and when placed in that situ-
ation he had always regretted that the natives were not
eligible to serve on Grand Juries, capable as they were
of efficiently dischaiging the dutie. of the office.
Sir JAMES MACINTOSH begged leave to express
his satinfactnin at the manner in which this petition had
been received by the House. He entirely concurred in
the observations which had been made by Hon. Mem-
bers from every part of it. He admired, indeed, the
'spirit which had breathed thrbughout the whole of
the discussion. It gave him much pleasure to re-
sect that there never was an absolute Government
so far removed from the mother country which was so
well administered as that of the English Government,
in India.. Of the fact of its being so well adminis-
tered he was well convinced from what his own ex-
perience had taught him, as well as from what he
bad beard from others, who were, perhaps, better able
to judge than himself. He agreed with the Hon.
Member who spoke last, that there could not be a more
sacred duty for a Member ot that House than to en-
deavour at all times to rivet the attention of the Legis-
lature to the affairs of India ; for although the govern-
ment of that immense empire was well conductee, there
was, notwithstanding, sufficient room for considerable
improvement. The principal difficulties which it had
now to contend against were an excessive tat ation, and
the ezclusion of the native inhabitants from all office.
It gave him much pleasure when he considered the im-
portant improvements which had already resulted from
*the system of general education which had been estab-
lished in India. lie was enabled to say, from his
own experience, that the most important benefits had
already been cleaved from that system; and I.e did not
hesitate to says that in that part of the Empite with
which he was more pat ticulai ly acquainted, the system
would be curried on with inceased vigour under the
GQMOllletel of his esteemed and enlightened friend S r
'Job. Makolm. He was rejoiced to hear that that ex-
perienced individual had already bore testimony to the
excellence of the character of the native inhabitants
under his Government. Fur his own part he (Sir James
Macintosh) had only to say, that in all the ;nitrate re-
lations of life he never found the natives of India interior
to ate other nation.
• Dr. PHILLT MORE felt hitnself bound to give his testimooy
to the admirable manner in which his Hon. Friend opposite had
cosdected hiasselt when be was called to the arduous duty of ad.
• ministrating to so many millions of oar subjects in the East.
• Mr. W A KIiURTON confessed that, from the various accounts
which be had read, be was disposed to doubt the morality of natives
of India. He therefore thought that the House should be cautious
hi admitting them to the privileges prayed for in the Pe:ition.
Sir C. FORtIES said. that while he existed he would maintain
that the natives of India were at least as good and as mural as any
of we own countrymen. He spoke this from an experience of
twenty three years.
Air. STEWART said that an intelligent nes more upright race
of people did not exist in any country, and this he begged leave to
say was not only his own opinion, but the opinion of every body
who bad had a fair opponuaity of judging by being among them.
Mr. WYNN replied.
Tha Petition was then read and ordered to be printed.
FERGUSSON presented a Petition from the Yisfkrmen of
blacduff, Banff, and several other towns in Scotland, praying for
a continuance of the Bowies upon Nisheries.—Otd. to be rioted.
Dlr. G. DAWSON brought up the Repent of the Commissioners
of his. hlaiesty's Woods and FOrests.—Ordered to be printed.
Mr. or NEILL presented a Petition from the inha-
bitants ot a certain portion of the county of Galway,
praying its* House to direct inquiries to be made as to
the nature and extent of the works carried. on in the
a ild, extensive, and uncuitivated di-trict oft the western
coast of the county lit Galway.. The lion.• Member oh-
served. that the petitioners complained that the slims
ot money which had been granted by this House for
the enipinymesit id the prior. and for theirs'? ovement
of the toads in that part of the. runty mentionei. in
the Petition had been 'lnisappliedlThopetitiorters ssa ed,
that in consecrience of the negligence nr nosccindoc,
•of the engineer who had. been appointed to cootiutt the
wilt., needy Ese Whole ref tine money which had be-n
grimiest had beery swallowed up.in 'unneces,urtexpeti.es
arid in tees to clerks. _He (Mt. 011A11) understood
that the sum of 5(X10001. was about to.he granted for
the purpose of draining some pasts of, Itel.nd. lit
had only to °hie/ ye: that it wooly he vain and usele-s-
-for the H ti.e to pour fold) its money into that country
it the. instances of 'misapplication which* were' brought
before-it•wme doffed over vanhoot notice.. He trusted
thetefore that it mould comply with- the prayer Of the
petition. by instituting an transediate inquiry into the
abuses.complaineci of.
lbs• petition was read sad °Hand to lie on the table.
Mr. A. DAWSON presented a Petitioo.from tbe inhabitants of
the borough of Athlone, praying that a revision might be made in
the constituency of that borough.—Ordered to be printed.
lb. HUSJCISSON presented a Petition from the Mayor and
Eurgemeeot Liverpool,- praying that• the trade-to India might 'be
throws open.—Ordetred to be printed.
Upon the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the CECHE.
QUER the order of the day for the second reading of the °wee
Meaty BW'waa gone into.--The Bill was read a second time, and
ordered to be committed this evening in the Speaker's chamber.
Tiet-Eare India Mem fill was read a third time and passed,
INWHIVNIIII. MOIST
Upon the motion for the third reading of the Charities legal
Mr. D. W. HARTETrensarked upon the great daisy
vrbiolt.had taken phice in this investigatioo. • TbeConso
mission which had been:appoißead• had. already eon the
eanoutrupwaock of 91111X000(1 and'on looking over the
nineteen reports which had tete laid.befaitoahilloose;
it,vetta foetid that,.of the eighteeniebonsaed, cases which
bad bees repotted, ham three to five thousaat regeired
to be edisittedefrirshi Duni -
comatiiionetrahneirditoetee
anailN/44. antkof. thaw

to be►ex'
r ibis-

moment remained undecided, and in the office of one
of the Masters in Chancery. Llelregged to ask the
Right Honourable Gentleman what way ftom three
•to five thousand cases were to. be determined, when
the average progress for the last eleven years had
been tvio fates a.year, since in the last eleven years.
twenty '.cases only had been determined ? Again,
considerable difficulties arose in many cases in conse-
quence of the decision of the Lord Chancellor, that the
evidence of persons who might be interested in a charity
was inadmissible in any inquiry concerning that Charity.
Now, there was an instance of a charity of 1,0301. which
existei in a village some distance from town, but which
bad got into the hands of the parson, who was also a
Magistrate; and as nearly, it not the whole, of the in-
habitants of the village were interested in the charity,
it was impossible, after the Lord Chancellor's decision,
to deprive this Reverend person of it. It was not his
(Mr. D. W. Harvey's) intention to oppose the Bill; but
he had thought it rigbt to call the attention of the Right
Hon. Gentleman to it, by mentioning:the circumstances
which he h.d just detailed.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, the Honourable Gentleman
had completely misrepresented the facts of the case.
The Bill continued the labours of the Commissioners for
one year, because it was not expedient at present to
make alterations which it would be proper to do in the
next Session. He did not intend to defend all parts of
the commission, which was much altered from the
form in which he had brought it before the House. The
Commissioners had finished sixteen counties, and
partly finished ten counties. True it was there were
twenty six counties'not yet looked into, but these come
priced the twelve counties of Wales, which had a po-
pulation of but about 500,000, and but one fortieth of
the charities of England. It was therefore fallacious t o
say that the Commissioners had not done half their
business. Yorkshire was one of the counties they had
finishes, and that alone was about three times as much
XS the twelve counties of Wales. • The Commissioners
had examined 18,000 charities, which was half of
the chanties of England; and rf those many required
' a longer time for examination than could be supposed
of those that remained. Seventy-one of those cases had
been brought into Chancery, of which sixteen had been
finally decided. He wished the other suitors in Chan-
'eery were in as good a case respecting their causes.
Besides these decisions by the Court, in twelve cases
the parties had prevented proceedings by giving in,
and complying with the opinion of the Commissioners.
But one excellent effect of the Commission was to
prevent the necessity ot legal proceedings, by causing
men who were before negligent, to set their house in
order, from an apprehension of a visit from the Com-
missioners. He saw, is his travels through the coun-
try, a great number of quite new. charitable build-
ings, with a stone in the wall bearing a vety old
' date, and he always suspected that the erection
of the buildings was hastened by the apprehension
of a visit (lona the Commissioners. another benefit
from the Commission was the completest registration of
charities ever known. The Commissioners had already
examined into and secured to charitable purposes a
revenue amounting to very near 600,0001. In the year
1785 the Ministeis and Churchwardens returned the
revenue of the charities of England at 100,0001. It
was his opinion that the whole charitable revenue of
England Amounted to between a million and a half and
two millions of real value. The Secretary for the
Home Department had suggested that one Commis-
sioner should be enabled to act as two now did,
which recommendation he hoped would be carried
into effect by a Bill next year, and which would
enable the inquiry to be completed in hall the
time, and in three or four years he hoped the whole
would be completed; and it would certainly be one of
the must useful works the Legislature had ever effected.
The want ot a tribunal for decision on charitable funds
had long appeared to him a serious want ; and he
brought in a lilt some )ears ago to supply that want,
as far A• le; arcied charities for the purposes of educa-
tion. That Bill was connected ith• another for the
education of .he people, and on that account was lost.
He had het n lately asked whether lie had abandoned
the Education Bill? That Bill, ever since 1820. had
occupied much of his attentio.i. He then thought the
education of the people shnuld be connected with
the Established Church ; but it never was intended
to give the Church any advantoge over sects; but
unfortunately for the measure and the country, the body
.of Dissenters differed from him; sod out of his great
respect for them he then withdrew the measure. There
was eves y indication then and since of a favourable dis-
position towaids the measure on the part of the Esta-
blished Church. The reason of opposition on the part
of the Dissenters was, that they we,e excluded by Law,
and they were jealous of a measure which al:peare.l to
them to recognise that exclusion. The re,'eal of the
Test Act passed in March, and that removed the
whole objection. In the course of April he took the
liberty of addressing a circular letter to one thousand
Ministers of parishes on the subject ; the answers he
teemed west• most gratifying. The re ult was that in
five hundred parishes. containing about one twentieth
of the pupul neon E tgland, in which there were,
in the year 1818,1.400 unendoo ed day schools—there
were in 1828, 3.200 ; and the scholars hail increased in
still "treater prop •ition—the number in 1818 being
49,000,i0 1828,130,000. It appeared that in 1818 the
scholais at unen toe ed day schools in all the pareshesof
England were 478,000. and in the year 1.1:128 they had
ii.creased to 1,100,0J0. Thi..greot increase made him
pr use iesi:ec sing the necessity of a Para.!) School Bai—
lor if the progress of education amongst the people was
.0 steady and rapid, it became a serious question whether
it won:d not be better to lease it whereat is than encum-
Ler it by an attempt at assistance—(Hear). The House
he was sure would give him credit whets he said that
Ire had no desire of the gratification of having a Bill
called by his name, if the work could be so much better
done without any such interference—(Hear, heat, hear).
It did not, however, follow Irons the progress the good
work was making, that no legislative measure could be
necessary. In the whole of the parishes of England,
amounting to between 11.000 and 12,000', there were
2,000 without any school. These, however, were very
small parishes, with an average population of no more.
than 270 persons; whereas, in the parishes with schools
the average population was lull 1,100. In those small
parishes private persons could • scarcely be expected
to establish schools, the quarter's pence paid by the
few children that would attend them, would certainly
be insufficient for their support; and he had not
quite made up his mind whether any legislative
measure would be necessary for the establishment of
icbools in these parishes ; bus was rather inclined
to think that none would be necessary, as the children
would probably findeducation in the adjoining parishes.
Another fact that was mostgratifying.,wat the increase
of a feeliiig:in fivour of the education of the people;
fUr thoug* to 1818-tbe returns were in general favours-
(slis, yet sospe.resares contained-resuarke of a different
ithara,cres, such as we base education enough-.we doll
Want any ftirtpee Irdneatirmi but. it war highly gratify-
ing 'bat the proportion of such remarks was greatly