Star.
London, England, 1810-03-30 00:00:00

c the embaskation of St. Cog,
taken prisoners of war or slain.
expedition. He (Kr. Rose)
instance, in which nothing but
prevented a total failure. It
under General Barrington against
India Islands. After a two-month,


dalaupe was taken; but the General,
acknowledged himself deeply inde.
it was not lost to the country, as Cet
—the father (said Mr. Rose) of, I believe, The Vice-
King of Italy (a laugh)—appeared off the Island'at
the moment of its capture with 2600 men, whose ar-
rival, a few hours earlier, would have foiled the
whole expedition. After enumerating some additio-
nd cases of unavoidable failure, Mr. Rose answered
-other points, which had been made in the course of
the debate. It had been asserted that the expence of
this present expedition must have been understated at
£BOO,OOO. The calculation of an Honourable Ge-
neral (Tarleton) ingeniously swelled it up to three
millions, bat the idea was absurd. The estimates
were all before the House, mid it was idle to suppose
public officers capable of putting so low and unarti.
ficial a trick on the common sense of the House;
£246,000 had been charged for ordnance transports.
This was the charge not of the Ordnance, but of tbe.
Transport Board, with whom those miners lay, and.
whose peculiar province, and duty it was to collect all,
transport services, which were formerly separate, into
one system and direction. He still felt. the most pin,
fect conviction that the retention of Flushing was is
wise measure ; and when th.! country had gives"
itself time to consider its value, and calmly estimate,
the dangers which menaced it from that quarter of
the enemy's force, he was convinced that their judg-
ment would be altogether in favour of the wisdom
which planned the Expedition, and the policy by
which its great objects were endeavoured to be re-
• tained.
Lord F. G. OSBORNE addressed the House it
support of the Resolutions, in a maiden speech of
much elegance and vigour. He felt that he was ob-
truding himself, when so many other Members, with
higher claims on their attention, might be waiting to
deliver their opinions ; but on such an occasion he
could not be justified to himself in giving a silent vote.
He would not attempt to examine whether Ministers '
were incapable of directing tke country, but he-must
fix his eyes on what they had done, and there, he
could have no doubt, he found the melancholy proofs
of incurable weakness or premeditated crime. Could
experience do nothing for them ? Was it possible
that, after the dilatory and procrastinated expedi-
tion in 1799, they should have suffered every thing to
be ruined by delay in their last abortive attempt at con-
quest ? 'Why throw away British valour and British
blood, after the glcries of Maida, Egypt, and even of
Spain? The military renown of the British soldier,
was stamped for ever ; and was this crude and creel
experiment to be made to try his title to renown once
more ? After a train of similar observations, the No-'
ble Lord sat down amid the cheers of the House.
Lord GEORGE GRENVILLE, after apolo-
gizing for taking up the time of the House, com-
mented upon the facts of Mr. Rose's speech ; he fol-
lowed him in an acute and able examination bf his
statements relative to the Rochefort Expedition, and
concluded by recommending economy in the treasure
and blood of the British people.
Mr.FITZGERALD controverted the reasonings of
the Noble Lord (G. Grenville) who had just sat down,
so far as they went to establish the want of analogy
I between the late Expedition and that to Rochefort.
After many arguments in defence of the conduct of
Administration,the Honourable Member contended,
that the place to which the Expedition was sent was,
upon the whole, the only place to which it was advise-
able to send it—and that its object was closely con-
nected with the safety of the country, it being to de-
stroy a growing force, still unfortunately. increasing.
All seemed to agree_ that the Commanders were
exempt from blame ; no unnecessary delay had been
proved, and no dishonour had tarnished his Majesty'sl
arms.—(Hear.)--He therefore hoped that a majority
of the House woold vote as he conscientiously should,
for the Amendment proposed by the Honourable
General.
Mr. GRATTAN, adverting to a part of the ob-
servations that had fallen from the Right Hon. Gen-
, tleman opposite, slid, that he would not- with him
enter into a comparison of the conduct of the present
war with the conduct of that under the direction of
the great Lord Chatham. He would not compare
a series of defeats witha series of victories. In reply*
to what had been urged respecting the retention of
Walcheren, he would adduce the best opinion of Sir
R. Strachan, which was decidedly against the reten-
tion. To have retained Walcheren, it would have
been necessary to have sent immediately a large force
to supply the place of those troops which Sir E. Coote
requested might be immediately withdrawn ; and af;
terwards to have incurred a a great annual loss. Be-
sides, there was one argument against the retention of
Flushing, whick was unanswerable. It was impossi-
ble to retain it. By a strange confusion of ideas,
Government, because they thought it necessary to
send an armament to Walcheren, when Austria was
at war, to create a diversion, thought it necessary to
keep that armament there when Austria was at peace,
and when no rational object was in view. Ministers,
however, had been possessed of a disposeable force,
and they thought it necessary to do something with
it ; but whether to take care of it or to expose it to
destruction, seemed to have been to them a matter of
indifference. What was the opinion of the General
Officers on the object of the Expedition? They de-
claimed against it. The first idea of Government
was to send an army by Ostend. They afterwards
mitigated the severity of their' idea, and determined
to proceed by ajoint naval and military force. And-
here, it was curious to Observe, 'the Noble Viscbunt
who had said so much against the expediency of
listening to military opinions, had in this inetanee
listened to them with great deference; for had he
not done so, the army would have been sent by
Ostend ; that is according to the declared sentiments
of all the officers, they would have been sent to incur,
not risk merely, but utter destruction.. That plan
having been abandoned, what was the opinion of the
officers on the conjoint Expedition ? That it was less
impracticable than the other, but that it was attended
with a hazard which rendered it nearly desperate.--:.
Sir John Hope had declared, that as scion as he saw
the situation of things, he was persuaded that titt'.
.1 attempt was impracticable. Lord R 0115411 Willa
, t

Mr. CANNING then rose. He said
Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Grattan) who had
spoken last, had concluded a very able speech with
calling upon the House to visit all the calamities of
the expedition upon those who were the authors of it.
As one of the authors and advisers of that expedition,
he trusted that the House would not be sur-prized that
he should feel anxious to"answer the call which had
been made. He should endeavour, as distinctly, and
the

Hi

iid that the

.1 •

•

• •
At could not at any time i der discussion,ltaly,Spain, and the North of Germany
Chatham enters:24*d doubts had been separately pointed out as the proper theatre
doubts had been borne , for employlog the disposable force of the country.--
dmiralty. Sir It. Strachan —With respect to Italy, as much had been done as
'grave his conviction that could be done, and our force in that quarter did
The Hon. Gentleman seriously occupy the force of the enemy at Naples.-_
examination of the Report More than was done he could not have wished to be
which contained the infer- done, because it was always his opinion, that it woult
had been indeced to be most unjustifiable in this country to stimulate
...isacion chiefly went to prove the or encourage insurrettion, when the probable
state of Antwerp and its neighbourhood ; quente ,of such insurrections must eventually be fatal_
aid contended, that it was by no means entitled to cre- t those engaged in them. -Ax to the North of Ger-
cll. Of the falsehood of the information indeed a suffi- m iny,he could not see that such an expedition would
cient proof had been afforded on the day after the have been likely to have .been attended with any im-
siiling of the Expedition, for on the arrival of the portant results It mist be recollected, that once
Marquis of Huntley at Cadsand, he found it imprac- before we- had sent an expedition to. the North of Ger-
ticable to effect a landing, in consequence of the su- • many, immediately prior to the battle of Austerlitz,.
perior force of 'the enemy, although in the secret in-; and this expedition was not able to effect any material
formation it was stated that the place was without diversion in favour of Austria. And yet he must
troops. As little credit was fotind to be due to the ask, was there any resemblance between the state of
representations of the dilapidated state of the fortifi- Europe at that time, and what it is at present? An
cations of Antwerp. After having dwelt at consi- expedition. going last year to the North of Germany,
derable length on this part of the subject, the Right would have only. foundthe broken scatterediragments
Hon. Gentleman proceeded to state that the predic- of what were once powerful-kingdoms. (Mar, hear.)
tions of all the Officals had been verified, Ministers -When last we sent our expedition to the North of
had sent Out an expedition of one hundred thousand Germ-any, Russia and Sweden were our allies, and
men, of the result of which the' General had great_ Prussia held a most respectable rank among the na-
clonists, of which the Admiral had no hopes of. suctions. That State bad since most lamentably changed.
ccso, without a plan of Antwerp or of Lillo, and with- Those nations who were then our friends, and who
out any 'system of co-operation, to a place where-the still may be inclined to our cause, are forced to act
troops, in addition to other evils, were visi'ed by that against us. It would have been idle to have depen-
most dreadful of all evils, contagious disease. In ded .much on the...co-operation that we might have
vain would Ministers refer to former exploits of our received from insurrections. Insurrections had taken
bray; saldiers, and delare that from their spirit they place through the North of Germany ;' tail they were
had expected every thing. On those occasions they • not of a ninure to interrupt the plaUs of the corn-
' hail to contend only against the enemy ; in the pre- mon enemy. A Pruesian Officer (Schill) had, with
-sent instance they had to contend with a plague. It a small corps, traversed the North of Germany; but
was no excuse for Ministers to say that they relied notwithstanding his activity and personal courage,:
on the spirit of the army, when they exposed that he was not able to stir up that country to any effec-
army to an evil over which no spirit could triumph. rive resistance. Another attempt had been made
—Long after. any necessity for retaining.Walcheren by the late Elector of Hesse Cassel (who was much
had existed (if any necessity had ever existed), Go- beloved in his territories) to raise an army in the
vernment had persevered in its retention. There ap- North of Germany, and yet these attempts had
peared to be a correspondent ignorance between the a very partial success. The march of the Duke
two Cabinets of Vienna and St. James. The latter lof Brunswick, with his faithful followers, through
did not know that the former•had made a peace with the whole North of Germany, was a brilliant and
France ; and the former did not know that the troops almost- unexampled military • atchievement ; and
of the latter were in the hospitals of Walcheren. In yet, although it shewed the disposition of the
the whole of the transaction, Government had been people of that part of the Continent, it also proved.
guilty of a conduct so reprehensible, that it could be that they w.tre :c l best n-, that it would be hardly
exceeded only by the conduct of that Parliament who possible, even if it were adviseable, to rouse them to
would excuse them. a general insurrection. There then being no chance
of Zterial - - with that

, any mal co-operation . istria, , power
could have no-right to expect us not to pursue objects
of British policy, especially when they might produce
a diversion on the Continent. He would say most
distinctly that there was no chance of co-operation at
the time that the Expedition was resolved -uponh.
either with Austria or with .the population .of the
countries to which the Exredition was directed. He
never evected, or wished for the co-operation that
be • ' • -

as shortly as he was able, not only to justify ex-' was to . obtained by a.rising:tsfehe pe-ople, because
1 _
pedition, but to shew that Ministers at that time were he was always impressed with *the conviction that it
strictly bound in duty to their country, to. pursue the would be a barbarous policy to encourage insurrec-
course st hich they had taken. He conceived that the tions which might prove ultimately fatal to those en-
line which they had taken was precisely what any gaged in them. He wished to state this most dis-
other Administration, which could be formed in this i wetly, because, humble as he was, he feared that his
country, would have taken in the same circumstances. I speeches had been so far misrepresented on the Con-
Before the House should form their judgment on this 1 tinent, that the Moniteur stated him to have used a
subject, they should bring their minds to consider it 1 language of thatJoit,' lie dietifore felt it necessary
'not as merely an insulated question, but as part of a solemnly to deny that he. 'eVei.used such language,
general system that it became necessary tb act on.—. and to abjure the sentiments imputed to him. He
We were engaged in a war in which not only the hoped that by the same channels by which his
;whole frame of Europe was attacked, but which also 1 speeches were conveyed to the Continent, this ahjura-
attacked our dearest interests, and threatened our se- . tion of the sentiments insPuted to him might also be
curity. The strongest of the nations yet unsuhdded.i.conveyed. In fact, solar-from wishing for this sort of
upon the Continent, Austria, bad taktn„up arms : Co-operation, it was a Material reason for his prefer-
against France. We were bound to supporftbe canie fence to directingthe Eipeditiou to the Scheldt, that no
of Austria, not only from the ties of alliance, but from I such to-operation was to• be expected:. If there was
common interests ; we had therefore two distinct ob- ! any one part of the Continent in which less than it;
jects to consider in any expedition that could have ;. any other a co-operation from popular insurrection
'been projected at that time ;—we had to consi- ! were to be expected, Antwerp was thin spot. Al-
der how our force might bst serve the cause of ' though, generally speaking, the Continent had. suf.
'Austria ;—and, at the same time, we were never fered most severely from the devastations of the
to lose sight of this consideration, that the perms- Ti French armies, yet Antwerp was a town which, had
vent interest of this country, should also be attended derived new life from the events of the war., It was
to. The object of the Expedition to the Scheldt 'no longer that deserted place in which was said
was not to be considered as selfish ; neither was it to be growing in the streets, but it was a town destined
to be supposed entirely connected with the cause of ,by the sovereign of France to be a great emporium
Austria. It was, in tact, an Expedition which had of trade, and one of his principal naval arsenals.,--
been canvassed for several years, and did not merely However other countries might regret the changes to
grow out of the Austrian war, or originate with the which they had been subject, Antwerp had cause to
present Administration. The idea of an Expedition rejoice, and bless tire day that it was unitedto France.
to Antwerp and the Scheldt had been most eloquently It had been a long time deprived of the advantages
'recommended by a Noble Lord whom he succeeded which nature had given it, by 'all , article in a treaty
in office (Earl Grey) previous to his quitting that which prevented the free navigation of their own river
'House. When he adverted to that speech, he. must the Scheldt. The events' of the war has restored to
mention• that it was one of those speeches, which them this free navigation, and there can be no doubt
by some of those accidents that are not unusual i but that Antwerp has gained most materially.by its
In that House, was not heard by any but the connection with France. It was therefore not at all
Member's. In that speech, the Noble Lord had most to be supposed, that an Expedition directed against
eloquently and impressively pointed out to the atten- Antwerp would receive any co-operation from local
tion of the House Antwerp and the Isle of Walcberen, insurrection. No such co-operation was sought for,
(crier of hear, hear,) and he appeared to leave this plan and the Expedition was to be considered in no other
as a legacy to his successors. The Noble Lord wits light than as an act of'legitimate hostility against an
a man of most unquestionable zeal for the interests enemy with whom we were at war. As to the se-
and honour of his country, (hear, hear ; ) and looking crecy of the Expedition be would advert to the /*-
with the eye of a statesman on the map of Europe, niteur (the official voice of the - French Government)
this was the expedition which he thought the most to prove that it' was a surprise on the French Govern-
promising, without any immediate contemplation of meat Tltis Wauld appear from an •;:iffici.l report
an Austrian war. The expedition was therefore ori- sent by the-Minister at war to the Emperor, in which
trinally planned on considerations different from the it was stated that this Expeditiorowas originally des.
4`.
circumstances under which it took place. When the tined for Spain;. but-that hi consepence of the ar-
Austlian war, however, did take place, the expedition micice, it was suddenly dittsr.ed from its original
became more essentially necessary. There were only destination. This report shelved most clearly "that
two modes of directing the forces of the country under they were entirely ignorant of the real destination of
these circumstances ; the one was to attempt a direct the Expedition. Some Gentlemen had, in their
co-operation with the Austrian forces, and the other speech s, appeared to think that it was the duty of
was to project an expedition which might occasion a 'lllinisters to foresee every circumstance which could
diversion by drawing of a considerable part of the. .happen in a campaign, and therefore they were justly
French troops. As to the idea of direct co-operation, chargeable for every misfortune which could occur.
..it appeared to him to be Most absurd. He had heard It was evident, however, that Ministers must leave a
'kit iciele stated in that House of sending our expedition great deal to the conduct of the Generals who were
into the Adriatic, and landing them at Tames in or. on the spot. Gentletnen who now discussed this
der to join the Austrian armies. • In order to send the question OW judge with all the calmness of lookers-
reepedition that eeas thus prepared, it ivould have beer; on, who were reckoned often the best judges, from
necessary to send about 300 sailiertransports, ,under •their opportunity of seeing both hands. The plait-
proper convoy, to the Achjetie sea. This flotilla 'iris of an Edition had not, however, this advaben•
-.would probably not have aerived.at its destination for .tage. Them ions of the enemy were not to .1
y
three months after the war-had commenced, and when' easily foreseen by them, and their plans might east
:they had reached Trieste, they would not have found be deranged by an unexpected Movement er circene
an s
n Austrian soldier.within 300 miles of them. As this stance;'which, when every thing was over, it wa
, counteracted
plat! of direct co-operation appeared altogether absurd, easy to we bow it could have been counteracteld.
it was-of course maturely considered in what points a He conceived, however, that it was invossihe to
our
diversion might best be made in favour of Austria. Be- have pointed out ally other destination in which
sides the expedition, the merits of which were now un- forces could have been employed with grata* Pro.

:€7
4 hit rear-pv.loo • ;mthat the Expedition cot
Lin. Thus er,4losit eMccifeded. Lord Chattier
now turned to *ambit 'kir thestibject, attliongh.those di
ut accident could hat Amin by the orders of the A dmir
was on the expeditios hid expressed to Lord Mulgnil
rainst the French West-. the Expedition would fail. T
months resistance, Gua- here entered into a minute exam
eneral, in his dispatc of-the Select Committee, whit]
indebted to fortune that oration on which Government
-, as Count Beauharnois proceed, which information chie