Star.
London, England, 1820-06-03 00:00:00

Pnrc E SEX EN-PENCE.

was inchtled a varietj,
.01 artiiles; such as bread-
money, coals, and candles; &c. which amounted to
about £25,000. A sum of six or seven thousand
pounds was to be required for the TrigonOmetrical
Survey. He said, that the object of this survey bad
not yet been obtained, but it was necessary to conti-
nue the expenditure. The increase, therefore, by the
amount of these two heads, came to £32.000. Un.;.
der the great head of the Debt of this Department,
was a sum of £4otooo. Nominally the amount waS
£40,000, but really it would be only £25.000 for
the service of this part of the Establishment. He
should explain the reason of, the difference. 'The last
vote under this head of expense obtained, amounted
only to £20,000, whereas the actual expenditure was
£55,000; so that the amount of the artier of the
last year being added to the amount of the. Estimates
for this year, constituted the sum of £40,000,
which was required under the head of Expenditure
on account of the Debt. The next, and last class,
comprehended those articles which constituted the
addition to the expenditure. These amounted to
i.:7000 or £BOOO, which was to be expended for the
.maintenance of several new depots, in different parts
rof the country, for stores. There were also several
sums expended for the moving of stores, &c.amount-
ing altogether to £ll,OOO. Against this excess was
to be set off a saving in various parts of the expen-
diture, which had been carried even to personal in-
convenience. The saving consisted of the suppression
of nineteen establishments in the Army, averaging
each about C5OO a-year. There were eight establish-
ments in the West Wks completely suppressed;
eleven others in this country were also broken up,
each of which cost about £3OO or £4OO a-year.—
The saving from these suppressions amounted for the
present year to £5OOO, in the shape of expenses upon
ordinary charges, and upon extraordinary charges
the saving amounted to £ll,OOO or £12,000. The
aggregate of all these savings being "deducted from
the increase, left an, excess, as he had before stated,
of £133,000. Having stated thus far, he did not
know that it would be necessary for him to detain
the Committee any further. If he had omitted any
thing which might appear to require observation, be
would be very happy to give all the explanation in
his power. He then moved, " That a sum not ex-
ceeding £293,694 Bs. Bd. be granted to his Majesty,
to defray the expenses of the Ordnance Departmeut
-for Great Britain and Ireland."
Mr. HUME said, that he should not. follow the
Honourable Gentleman thrOugh the items of ihi.
Estimates, to shew where there had been an increase,
and where a reduction; he would merely look, to
the total amount of the Estimates, and compere it •
with the total Expenditure of former years. In 1819
he found no decrease. The total amount of Ordina-
ries of that year was £520,000, while those of this
year were £540,000. The Extraordinaries, for 1819
were £220,000 ; those of 1820 were £280,000. The
whole expense for England and Ireland, in 1814,
was £849,240 ; while those of the present year were
£940,680. The net expenditure of last year, and that
of the present year, made a diffetence of £130,009.
But the difference would have been much greater if
credit bad notbeen taken for £170,000, for old stores
over the same item of last year's account. He did
think they were bound to attempt ahcomparison be-
tween the amount of the total of the Ordnance in
1795, which was £419,498, for the whole Ordnance
in the Tear before the war. Let the House compare
that with the expense in the sixth year of peace. If
he took the averages of the six years before 1798,
and-the six years since 1814, there would he found
an increase of E 800,000; both periods being times
of peace. He admitted that no real reduction could
be made, but by the individuals in the various offices
of this department of the State. The Commissioners
of Military Inquiry bad recommended the reduction
of the_ salary of the Secretary-, ot the Master General
of the Ordnance from £2OOO to £B5O a-year. tle
did not know whether that reduction had ever taken
place. He had noticed that the money collected pn
certain revenges at Gibraltar had been illegally 4p.
propriated io the Civil List, while £7OOO bad been el).
propriated to repairs at Gibraltar, for which perpese
that money should have been applied, according.to
the intention of the Order. in Council under which it
was levied. He objected also to the expenses of the
lonian. Islands; which were by Treaty bound -to
maintain 3000 troops.. Any additional number of
troops were to be paid by this country ; he therefore
did not know why the sum of £3OOO was asked for
these Islands.... It Was well known that we had gen-
powder enough in the country to last twenty years
of peace; and yet there was a sum of £lO,OOO for
the manufacture of gunpowder ; and, .he understood,
that Government every year was making gunpowder
at six or seven pounds a barrel, and selling it at three
pounds. If thatatrai the case, he thought it was not
worth while to keep up the manufacture at such an
expense. He also objected to young Clerks of three,
five, seven,. and nine years standing, having been
discharged on pensions of £45 a-year for life, being
half their full salaries. According to Iris opinion,
these thing, were contrary to law ; and they were
specimens of the economy to be followed up by Mi-
nisters. He was thankful to the Master-General of
the Ordnance for the.reductions he had already made
in the Foreign Department ; but a still greater re-
duction might be made. .He also considered that
great reductions.might be made in the Storekeeper-
C4enetal's Department. It was not his intention to
subniit any metipa to the House on the subject; but
he called (snit to consider all matters of reduction.
Mr. W AILD said,. the Honourable Member had
not pointed, out any particular offices which he wished
to, be put. dawn. .He bad stated,. that nineteen fo-
reigp aces, connected with the Ordnance, had been
put down by the Master-General, and that surely
.proved that the Noble Duke was sincere in his wishes
for econom y. As a set-off against this reduction, the
Hon,. Member had mentioned the miserable case of
four
,you.ng men being allowed £4,5 a•yeer as ham
pay,who had been turned out of bread, their-offices •