Star.
London, England, 1803-03-17 00:00:00

NOTTING ELZCTION:

Mr. HAwstes Bitowna reported frost the Committee ap-
pointed to try the merits of the Petitions complaining of an un-
due Eledion and Return for the Town and County of the
Town of Nottingham; that the laid Committee had deter-
mined that Jofeph Birch, Efq. was not duly eleeted to ferve in
Parliament for Paid Town: alto that Daniel Parker Coke, f fq.
was not duly eleCted: alto that the bit Eledion was void with
refpiet to one of the Elurgeffes: aifo &moot any, nor either of
the Petitions was frivolous or Velltiollg ' • and that the oppo-
iition of Jofeph Birch F:fq. was neither frivo'ous nor veer iota
Mr. HAWICINI Blowout reported Ilkewife the feveral Re-
(elution, agreed to by that Committee.
Refolved, That John Allen, Efq. Returning Offices for the
Town of Nottingham, sand contrary to his duty, in opening a
Poll and Jaceping tt open an hour, until forty-four votes were
taken, when there was no Candidate.

Rejoked, That it appears to the CoMmittee, that after the
B'll day the Freedom of EIe&oo was grofsly violated by out-
rageous dlfturionoces and perfonal violence.
Maud, Thu Daniel P. Ccke, Efq. after repeated taroks
and violence, was compelled to leave the Town, and could not
venture to a corn after, and that numbers of EMl:tors were de-
tared from ere:rang their franchge.
Refaced, That John Dutton, Efq. Mayor, and Jokph and
Thomas Oldknow, Aldermen, of Nottingham, had ufed no
effettoal means to adore the freedom of Eketion,by (appealing
the riots or punkin the daubers of the peace.
Refolved, That a Common Han held at Nottingham, on
Wednefday the Bth of January left, after the Petitions bad been
preferred to Parliament, at which it was refoived that all ex.
peaces that may be incurred in this cafe by John Allen, John
Davila:, Jofeph and Thomas Oldknow, Scald be defrayed at
the expence of the Corporation, was calculated to defeat the
ends of lattice.
Moly. d, That to prevent a repetition of the fame violence
at cir future kleEtion, the Houfe be moved for leave to bring
in a Bill to give to the Magnicates for the County of the Tenn
of Nottingham, powers to adopt cif Etna' merns for fecuring
the peace of the Town during an Eledion.
Refaved;rhat unless lonic Nob meanie he adopted previous
to the next El/is:Lion, there can be no freedom of Median in
that• Town.

Received. That the evidence rioduced to the Committee k
Lid bete, e the Hoare.

Ref.lied, 'That Alexander niter, who foliated Subferip-
tions to one of the Petitisins prefented to the Houle, was highly
rulpslde in Rating to the fubferibcrs that the allegations It con-
tained complained only of the intimitlation of many of the
Eleetors from the eke:tile of their franchife,in concealing from
thou the allegations, aceufing John Dasifon, John Allen, Jnfeph
and 1 honing Oldknow, of not having ufed any effedual means
t ftprr rs the riots, sat in letting to the Petition the names of
flatten fictions, w►o were net at Nottingham at the time of
tract lOW

HAWICIMS BROWNE then moved that the
further confederation of the Report be postponed
to Wcdneiday, the 20th of April.
Mr. Fox role, he laid, not to oppofe the motion
of the lion. Gentleman, but to Rate in a few words
what were his fentiments on the fubjed. It did
I not appear to him that there was any ground for
vleferring the confederation of the Report to fo dii
tint a day, and though he fhould not oppofe the
motion at prefent, nor give notice of any precife
motion on his own part, yet he should not con-
fider hirofelf precluded by this forbearance from
moving in the intermediate time, that a writ fbould
be ilTued for the Election of a Burgefs for Not.
tingham.
nowt's:3 133ownv replied, that it was
much againil his-own inclination that he felt him-
binsfsif under the neceflity of prolonging it for In
I:4:g a time. lie did it that all the Members may
have an opportunity of examining thoroughly into
the evidence laid before the Committee, and that
thould be done to all parties.
The Report was ovdered for further confidera-
ti,;o i•li tiie awl' of April.
M:.H wstxsßßowNcthenmoved,thatminutes
the j."...!eedings of the laid Committee be laid
before :' Houle. The minutes were brought up,
rand a ft:fricicnt number of copie‘for the ufe of the
Members in ,kred to be printed:
The Honourable Member then moved that no
writ be riTtred for the elaction of a Burgers for Not-
tin ;ham, until after the further confideration of
the Report.
Mr. Fit could not think that the Houle woeld
precipitately and unjnaifiably come to any refolu.
Con of this nature. }le law no reafon, nor did he
think the seater pint of the Hon* could difeover
any, for in extraordinary a delay. Ile could ma-
, .iiiy conceive that the non. Mover and Seconder of
the mot:cn ma) b: in pnifefros, from their atten•
stance on the Committee, of circuaglances to jut

tify filch a preciphakt mnarorc. : t a bare
tiara, from whatew:r •• • I,.si it y, i e did not conlhki
a ground for elablithing a bad precedent. He
wdhed to have an opportuni,y (.Ilooking into the
Report, not i-.to the rointitcF, pr the proceeding
before he thould be mcc:inc!..l, b::1 Refoltrh•n.r!
the Houfe from purtoing it he thom,ht the lint
of his duty. He witheckto alcertaia svhetber there
were grounds in the Report for keeping the town
of Nottingham fit long a time without a repadel,-
tative, and in a Rate idcleaion, for it was obvious
to every one that it would be in loch a Rate until
the eldtion (hould be completed. He therefiut
wifhed for'time for that inquiry before the mo-
tion fnould he complied with.
Mr. BOND obferved, that the motion complained
of was precifely conformable to what had taken
place on many former occafions. The Committee
informed the Houfe, that it appeared to them, that
nule:s means were adopted to prevent the repeti-
tion of the fame violence that had taken place at
the lall elthion there, no free eldlion could be had
for the town of Nottingham. The Committee only
claimed that confidence which had been repofed
frequently in other Committees. They a11:14 Gen-
tlemen but to furpend their opinions until the cir-
ctimitances fhould be brought fully before them.
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE and Mr. Fox feverally
laid, in explanation—the former, that he thought
it the mode moil relpei9ful to the Houk to avoid
a detail of his reafons, and refer Gentlemen to Ole
matter of the report for proof of the violation cf
the freedom of ele6tion by the mob; the latter,
that he did not rctufe his confidence to the Corn
Rrlittee, but wiflied to be informed of the fithjeifl of
the motives to delay, as no man could maintain
that the crimesalledged to be committed con Rituted
a lufficient reaflin why no writ fhould be ilfued.
Mr. WILLIAM DUNDAS fpoke to the fame
as Mr. Bond.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHICirER concurred
in the motion. The Committee declared :hat Ie•
giflative interference was neceffary to enfure the
freedom of elet!lion at Nottinharu. P.'as it not
fit, he afked, in fuck a cafe, that tLe Houle thould
interfere ? Was it not fit that credit filould be
given to the report of Gentlemen fworn to do their
duty impartially ? Ought the Houle to refufe its
confidence under filch circumfiances ? He was
fure the Houfe would paufe until it had provided
the means of preventing the recurrence of filch
atrocities on any future occafion. I'LL he would
not pledge himfdf to follow up the refolution ;
but he thought it a refpeß due to the report of is
Seidl Committee to agree to the motion.
.The motion was then put and agreed to.
Mr. Gcosvacrut was ordved to attend in his
place to-morrow, having been reported abfent from
the Chippenham Committee.

RESIDENCE OF THE CLERGY.

Mr. DICKENSON, fenior, moved for leave to
bring in a Bill to fantod for a (port time the ope
ration of an Alf of Henry VIII. fo far as it relates
to the retidence of the Clergy.
Sir ROBERT Burros had !weed that the Bill In
long promifed to meet this evil, would have made
its appearance before now. He declared that if
the Bill was not brought in during the prtfent te-
flon he would ever hereafter oppofe it.
Mr. HAWKINS BROWNE fubmitted whether the
Ali declaratory of the AEt of Henry VIIL and
Rating the fpecies of non-refidenee that flould
come properly under the operation of the Aft,
would not remove every difficulty
The CHAN cata.ot of the Exotic*, ea fiend, that
the indifpofition of the Honourable Gentleman
(Sir William Scott), who had prepared the Bill,
and out of whore hands the Houle, he was confi-
dent, would not be difilofed to take it, had been
the caufe of the delay hitherto. That Gentle. ,
man's health was now improved, and he would in
a fhort time be able to bring his meafine forward.
There would not be re many objeftions to the Bill
this year as there were Llft year; for many new
lights had been derived from the dilculon that
had then taken place.
Mr. P. CAREW fupported the motion.
Leave was given to bri.g in the Bill.
SIR THOMAS TROWBRIDGE.

Captain Marteir,ass role for the purpnfe of call-
ing the attention of the Houk to a fulajefl of great
delicacy. Wherever the charafter of a Member
was concerned, inveffigation ought to he entered
into and due relief afforded. He was lorry that
he felt it necelfary to bring forward the fubjefl,
as the Honourable Gentleman who was deeply
concerned in it was a relation of his own, and
had a high fituation at the Board of Admiral-
ty ; he meant Sir Thomas Trowbridge. Some
days ago, in a debate, an Honourable Member
in his eye (Mr. Dent) had Rated that fine very
improper tranfattions had taken place on the
Stock Exchange, and 'ince that Ilatement had
been made, feveral impreflions very unfavourable
had gone abroad with refped to Sir Thomas.—
The Hon. Gentleman tht:r proceeded to Rate the
fads, as contained in an affidavit made by Sir Tho-
mas's agent, already declared in all the papers,
wherein that Gentleman (wears that): fold out the
flock, not in coufequence of any orders tiom the
gallant Knight, but from the tenor of initruaions
he received a long lime ago to fell out fliould the re
be any profpeet of the Funds getting law. Ile
concluded by faytn,.;, that he meant to move for
a Committee to inve:tigatc the matter.
Mr. Dew r in his own vindication, raid, that he
by no means intended vi lingidarize Sir Thomas
Trowbridge in what had fallen from him, neither
did he intend the moll diffant infinnation uf the
nature with which the Hon. Gentleman had charged
him. What had efeaped him, Was in the crurtc
of debate, and he had only repeated in general
terms, a report current in every ffreet in tne city.
The CHARCCLLOR of the Escritopre beggcd
to Rate, that the gallant Knight was for seve-
ral hours after the report reached him, in fuel'
a fituation as only thofe firfeertible at the pangs
of wounded honour could fetl. Sir Thomas
Trowbridge, both as a man and tut officer, was
endued with the molt untainted honour.—
The Hotunerahle Gentleman had (poke only in
general language ; of this he complained, hut
wished him to fip.al: out, and he would he fully
and fairly anfwet ed. He c2ncludcd by vindi:

cat:!•it th: I,c!ccy of C;0v.21:.!-::-; L.'. •
:be Kin 1\1.41:17t, and tl.-• t•
lha.t ::>;fiatned, and
n.ated.

CIVIL LI,T.

The C11.1V.:• ...Loa of the rk
role iu purliati,ce of the !tato. e
move lot. a Committee to inquire trio the (
upon the Civil Lift Revenue, and to lepoit
fame, with their opinion the, ei-n. _lle laid, that
nteafitre was fonntled opotalti Majcity's lvldfage,
delivered to the Houte jail SJl:ons :
however, that it had not been bt otigla fn: wat,
former, and that a cc, iain degree of delay hd.
taken pl.tce, becaufe it would put the Hi.fe 1::
pa:II:Ilion of the Charges tiros! die Civil Lill,
nietclv in time of wnr, but alto in titre of pear.:,
and alto enable the Houfe to ft: in a c0m...0
of the nature of the Charges with whielt it
burthened. He then moved," That Ids M...j ,
Meilli;:e to that Houle, of the isth Fchrt4t; y, t
Iheittld read." The TAlLlETelt.tvin•;
The CHAst.F.t.i.oic tl.dic Ex ...it nt: !•1 x cot.;:st:,.;
that in craill.quence of that Pie: age,
fliince had thought proper to relieve his
from the hitt then of a richt contrPled tie ti
Civic Lift during a I'ZIIOd of 16 )42n! e
Houle had not adverted :o that part r t the I-le:i.age
which limed that the Civil Lill had not ()ten t. uul
adequate to the char,ezcs %eh:eh were to he p.,;,1„„t
of it ; lie therefore wiihed th it :lie fintife
inqu: le into the nature and extent of the charges
upon the Civil Lill. It the Houle io;iitute
an iniptity of that kind, it ~,,d
fail, petit-v., that a new m,,de of diliihutirn vith
regard to the charges tinsolJ be ad,)ptc..l ; it n;ig).t
be found expedient that lonic which Wert
now paid out of the Civil Liii, iiionld fall in future
upon theConfiilidated Fund. It might be es:pecker-a',
that Come mealute fhisuld be adop!td to prevent an
acenmillation of charges in filmic upon the Cirtf
Lihl : it might he cape:l'm:it. that within a givel
period
after m the comencem.nt --I every ceiton,art
Account of all the additi•inal Charges. up.ia, anl
all the new allowances paid out of the Civil
Ihnuld be laid before fhe Houle, Er that Parliament
would know when every excels took place, a;al
when the expence exceeded the revenue. Meatii:cs
of this kind he might, after inclitiry, he
to be expedi ; i.e •!:.fired not to be undet-
-- , icdging Limfelfto any fileci tic propoiinon.
I vas certainlytrite that in the hill SARonof Parlia-
ment the •Honfe did not encore all that appeared
to be material to execute with rereote to 114 Ma.
jelly's bleifige, and he certainly did not after-
wards bring forward fi'r the confideration of the
Honfe ail that he had opened to them when he
called their sattentioa to the tithjea. It was it.,
• with now that no proceeding thanld he adopted
by which any pnflible charge could be hrough
Lion the Public, until ariek an inquit v- by a COT.
mittee of that How:7. It would then he for the
Houle to determine whether any new arrangement
fimilar to that of 176ei fhould be adopted, whe-
ther the Civil Lift fitould be relieved from in:re
ha theta Which it i; tot a: le to beat ?and whei:e
Such an account &mid he laid before the
as he had before allinied to ? which would ear*
them to know when any increafe took place its Lt.?
Charges of the Civil Lill, which were merely cf
a political natttre, and which would give them a
cheek and contruul upon the espeoces of tit.:
Fund. Upon there grounds lie moved, 4, That v.
-Committee be appointed to ingetire into 11. e.
charge; upon that Revenue, and that they flait:;t
report the fame, with their opinion thereon, to
the Houfe." The motion was agreed to.
He then moved, That it limuld Le a Select
committee, confiding of twenty one Meutbers."—
Agrecd to.

The following Gentlemen were Appointed:
The Chancellor ot the Fici,,,Ntr.

Right Hon. C. Bragge Lord Han Ice:bury
Matte of the RulL Mr. R..ir.e
Mr. I. H. Brown Right Fiwi. J. Stewan
Mr. H. Lakellos Mr. f ISot
Mr. Egerton Sir Eyre Cane
Lord Boy!. Mr. Lee
Mr. R. P. Carew Mr. Millard
Mr. R.Dundas Mr. Dagdsie
Mr. Blackhunne (f.ancathiw) W. 7:. Vs... Straw
Sir I...Parkins Jr Chiding.
The CuaeciLaot of the Etc'. tut* mover..
That the Account of the Civil bit Etlahlliimeil
and Payments, prefented to the li.nite is ; 7F6.and
alfn the Account of the flAte of the Cord 1 it
p,refented lan Setlion, Mould be referred to the fata
Committee.—Ordered.

.1.11! CIIANCELLOR oldie Ezettr-,,!•ra rrefeittei
at the Bar fomc further AccountiJcfpcaing the
Civil Lilt.

The A TTOItII Gill IR AL, in rurfitance of the
notice he gave yeflerday, moved for leave to brings
in a Bill for making certain regulations in the of
of Surveyor General of his Majefly's Woods
and Forells.—Leave was given.

MUSH MILITIA.
The Report of the Committee on the Irilh
tia Bill V 143 bronght up,
On the quellion that the Refolu ions be read a
fcconJ time,
_ _

Mr. Wit.DtlAl4 role, and hegan Ms oppnfitioot"
the mcafurc by agraring the 'Hence, drat he is
not a iruend to the Militia Inflitution in Engle
that he wasiliill lets lo to it in Scotland. and, tr •
II grater degree, unfriendly to it in Ireland.-
It y. 41 well known :hat it cannot take place iral7...
land, as in Eng! aid, by h.llot t and inficad
faying you ought to have it by hownty, he wool`
fay. you ought not to have it at He paid fort—
high compents to the Militia, and to what .:
had heretofore done; and meant, on the tucks,:
occalion, only to impute to it defefts to which
is liable. At this moment of imminent danger, En
Paid, we want an effeCtive force, that was Jifiat.G-
ble, well difcipfined, and capable of &fling otfes-
lively as well as defentively. He looked on the
Militia as an army without erperiessce of maw!
fervice, and he laid that it was, and mua be, in a
very great degree, defer ire in dilcipline and full-
ordination to its officers. In an army you espyu
to find a perfeet knowledge of the art and tradeot
%%Ai, in (mitt to make it at:dual ; but he new

V

Sit W. LTENIT Paid, that every man in a

had heard it aliened, that there could be any idea
that the difcipline of the Militia can be equal to
that of the regular troops of the line.
Mr. Nost fpoke to order, and laid, he conceived
the Right Hon. Gentleman was not fpeaking to
the point, in thus defcanting on the defeas of the
Militia, when the propofition before the Hoyfe was
xnetclv as to the bounty money, and whether it
fhould be two or four guineas ?
The SPEAREI gave it as his opinion, that the
Right Hon. Gentlemen was firialy in order.
Mr. WINDHAM proceeded by uhferving, that at
a time fo truly eventful, and fo pregnant with dan-
ger as the prefent, it was faculiarly incumbent on
the Government of this country to have a large
force ready at command, and that force, he infili-
-ed, fhould be of fuch a nature, that it might be I
called nut to as at a moment's notice, offenfively
as well as defenfively; that by the conllitutional
formation of it, the Militia could not be made to
.aft offenfively againil an enemy, by being remota
if the country. If, therefore, we had a large force, ;
in cafe of the enemy's attacking us, it would be
impoffible for him to tell, whether it may not be
ufed offenfively as well as defenfively ; but if they
know that a very great part of it is Militia, and
therefore only defenfive in its nature, he knows
what he has to contend u ith here, and that none
can be fent to annoy him in his own poireffions.
Mr. Wattacs (poke to order. He raid, the pre-
tent cosmos' was 11,,C, whether we were to have !
Militia or not ? nor, whether it (hall be railed by
bounty ? but, whether that bounty -(hall be two
guineas or four ? He objeaed, however, to the
prefent argument of the Right Hon. Gentieman,
becaufe it was a difcuflion on the defeas of our Mi-
litia, which at a period of fo much danger--
Sir WILLIAM PULTSNCY rote to order, and laid,
be did fo becaufe the Right Hon. Gentleman had
advanced a great many arguments againll the mi-
litia, in none of which he agreed with hini. He
wiffied, therefore, he fhoe'ld goon, that a fair dif-
cuffion of the fubjeft might take place, that the
Houfe may not feparate, or any individual go
away with fuch imprellons on their minds as the
Right Hon. Gentleman had endeavoured to efiab
Efts againll the Militia.
Mr. WINDHAM again proceeded, and infilled
that in what he had advanced he was well found-
ed, and that it was of the utmoti importance that
we lhould boldly look our dangers in the face ;
and, above all, that we fhould have an effeaive
force capable of atiing with promptitude and vi-
gour both on the offenfive and defenfive. The
queftion as no lets than, Whether we fhould
have a Constitution or no? The danger, he in-
filled, was molt glaring, prating, and imminent,
and therefore profpeetive arguments were abfo-
lutely neceffary. The Members of the prefent Ad.
ininillration mull look profpeaivsly, or they arc
not fit to govern in fo alarming a otitis. It is not
right to confider it as a question only of wen-
norny, Whether the Nfilitia is to be called out I,n
emerg:ncy at lets expence than an equal number
of regular forces. It Mould, on the contrary, be
confidered, that this is a mere military engine ;
and, as Inch, he thought it much lets effeaual titan
the other. The Houfe ought to confider the dif-
ference of value weighed against that of price ;
and, in Co doing, he would, for one, rather give
Ile guineas for a regular foldier than two for a
!militiaman ; for he thought the value of a regular
regiment beyond that of a militia one was more
than four guineas a man. Betides, this mode of
'iving bounties to militia men, cut up the recruit-
in; of the regular army root and branch. Similar
divifiont, he laid, might happen in France as had
heretofore taken place there; and, in loch an
event, a firong cffeaive force ready, to aft pomp:.
?y and offenfively, would be actually neceffary, and
would be the torch means of giving peace and per-
raanent fecurity to this country. He wished that
'Milted of Militia, regular reglinents (Mould be
railed in Ireland, as he was certain thefe would be
the fafeß means of its defence. He ridiculed the
idea of attending to 'what a Merchant fays in the
City, or a Country Gentleman in another place ;
and averred, that any man who did fo, was unde-
ferving a I :ce in his Majefly's Government at fuch
a crifts of danger as the prefent. He begged to
be heard a few words in anfwer to whathad been
Paid by the Hon. Gentleman, who was the fecAnd
to interrupt him (Mr. Wallace), and Paid, that it
was fonaewhat curious, that when a meattre was
under contiderition, which called for great ex/ .
tons, he (koala be told, he mutt not take nod,
of what that exertion eontifii. Ile infißed, that we
Should not lay out our means and money in a mi-
litia, which is let's efficient titan a regular force;
and he had ufed the ;hove arguments in or der to
enter his proteß, as far as in has power, againit the
meature.
The SICRITAIre at WAR Could gotfit gill to
hear fuch extraordinary fentiments delivered, as
thole which hadbeen jail now offered to the Houle.
Ile concurred with the Hon. Baronet, who laid he
withed the Right Hon. Gentleman fhould not be
flopped on a point of order only, hut that himidf
and other Gentlemen might have an opportanity '
of anfwering fuch opinions. The Right lion.
Gentleman was in office at a time when the Mili-
tia was encreafed ; and whim the f•; Rem was fairly'
before the Houle be made no objeaions. The
Right lion. Gentleman lays that the Militia are
interior to he regiillr ; that is a matter generally
Known. In the year 1780, however, the M,tiiia
faired the capital ; and in tail war they proved
themlelves an extremely 11:*etol body, particula•ly
Ito kith Militia, V 110 almost emit ely oriath,:d the
frifli rebellion. The Right Hon. Gentleman La,:
infinuated, that he could not trust them, but they
Ltd performed aJtions of the sornoll gallantry,fiich
as would do hononr to the mot! eaperienced vete-
rans, in an important expcditinn, where the force
was principally m• n taken from the Militia, and
feet ahroad almoß immediately. licacknou hedged
that the Militia were only meant as an auxiliary
to tl,c regidars ; and therefore &fired that the
nre in the Country might not be difheartened
by tlic Right Hon. Gentleman. Such general
obfervations ought to be made only on general
principles, that is, where there was a general quef-
tion before the Houfe.

county was not ouly born to till the earth, hot
alio to defend it ; he therekre thought the princi-
ple of a Militia force perfeltly cr.rre&, as it kept a
body at all times in readiriels. Thy- Right lion.
Gentleman cannot forget that in AlPellC'd there
were Militia Men who beat us, and he had no
doubt that we, under fimilar ciicumaances, would
make a glorious flruggle.
Mr. WINDHAM explained:

General TAR zeros laid, that at a moment when
we were threatened by a reliefs and ambitiou.
neighbour, he thought there was no time to hea-
tate. Could not, he laid, 15,000 be confidered as
equal to to,ooo
Sir LAWRFNCR PARSONS expreffed his opinion,
that the queltion, as it lhould be taken was,
whether we timid avail ourfelves in the prefent
erifis of the actual Rate of the LTA militia, fuch
as it offered itfelf to the view of Government ? and
not, whether the Militia eflablifhment was, in an
abarad confideration, objeCtionable ? If gentle.
men railed fcruples that the enemy was not to he
mct by the Militia, he would Idence thofe fcruples
by fads. When an attempt was made by the ene-
my to land in Ireland at Bantry Bay, the Irifh
Militia evinced a loyalty and fpirit which were the
theme of general admiration. They were ready
to meet, with tteadinefs and intrepidity, the force
that threatered the country ; nor did the argu-
ments ufed by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Windham) againfl their inefficiency, ever occur to
them. They were, in fad, employed in a very dif-
ferent way ; for they were engaged in fharpening
their bayonets and in choofing the bell flints for
the attack. The Militia of Ireland volunteered for
the general lervice of the Empire, and in fupport
of that pofition he urged the inflance of their serv-
ing in Guernfey during the left war. He did not
think that it was altogether prudent to (peak the
language that had been fpoken by the Right Hun.
Gentleman, during the prefent crifis, of the in-
efficiency of the Militia; not that he thought any
militia-man, who felt for the honour of his coun-
try, would be difmayed by what had hen advan•
ced by that Right Hon. Gentleman. The country
did not depend upon the regular army, or upon
the Militia exclufivey,but upon the zeal and united
exertions of the inhabitants.

Lord KENSINGTON Paid, it was the firft time he
had ever troubled t'le. Houfe on any queltion, and
it was not his intention to trefpafs on their time for
many minutes. The only inducement he had in
addrelling them, was a mitflatement made by the
Hon Gentleman behind him (Sir W. Pulteney),
p who had laid, his Hon. Friend (Mr. Windham)
had made an attack on the militia of the two coun-
' irks. This, he was lure, was not the cafe ; his
Han. Friend had, by no means; Lid any thing
offenfive of that body of men ; he had taken vb.
jettions to the milieia on general principles, and
offered arguments to prove, that a dilpotable and
regular force was of more importance to the coun-
try than the augmentation of the Militia could
poffibly ; whether his Hon. Friend's arguments
would convince the Houfe of the propriety of his
pofstion would be fern by the vote of the Houle.
Yet he mull be permitted to fay, from Tome know-
ledge in Military affair s, that he concurred with
his Hon. Friend in fume points, and thought that
a regular difpofable force would be more ferviee•
able to Ireland than the Militia. At the fame time
lit had no objection to a Militia in either country,
yet he thought a regular difpofable force was better
for either an offcntive or defenlive purpcfe than a
Militia was, as the regular force was generally
better conflituted and difciplined for aaual fervice,
than a Militia could pofbly be. In proof of his
affertion he begged the Houfe to call to their recol
letlion,the Militia that were fent to Holland, whole
exertions proved their defeelive power, and evinced
a want of difcipline. This was well known to
Government, and had they been all regular troops,
there is no doubt but they would have made a
better figure.
The CHANCELLOR of the Exciter:mita laid, that
the expedition to Egypt was principally fupplied
from the Militia; and it was the opinion of the belt
military men that we could not do better than by
grafting a few Militia on a body of regulars. An
• Hon. Friend he had the pleafure of feting now wear
the uniform- of that regiment, had the honour of,
by his influence aid command, flopping the pro.
grefs of a body of Irifh Militia, then engaged with
the French, at a time when he thought it neeeffa-
ry to Atop theta; and thould it be raid, in the hear-
ing of fuels a man, that the Militia was an ineffi-
cient force ?

Sir W. Po t.zuzz explained, that what be meant
in alluding.to the American Militia was, that as
they had heat us on American ground, fu would
Englilh Militia but French Regulars, if on Englifh
'ground.
Mr. Nona Paid, that he had the hoisoor to raife
a regiment of Fencibles during the lag war,- and
that the few orders he received from that Right
Hon. Gentleman's office befpoke neither the ut-
molt politenefs from that office, nor the greaten
cordiality was then exifling in Adminiaration.
bir Eras COOTS laid, he had the honour to
command a body, confilling in a great meafure of
thofe taken immediately from the Militia into antral
fen-ice ; and becould bear ample tetlimony to the
bravery and exemplary condue of thole men—
that they had eflablifhed their charmer as loyal
men, and moll excellent foldiers.
General MAITLA ND paid the highest compli-
ment to the bravery, zeal, and endurance of the
1. ifh ; and nhferved 11134 however, they
mug he confeffedly inferior to the regukirs, yet to
nfr them with the troops of the hoe, lie thought
them a moll ferviceable and effeeive force.
Mr. Wicsaaroar I laid, he only conlidered the
army as a two-edged wearsao ; and that this was
confidering one fide of that initrument. Perhaps
it was the Hon. Gentleman's fopdnefs for expedi-
tions that made him not like that body, n being
inapplicable, in a limited degree, to that fort of
fervice.

Mr. At.rxavort Paid briefly, that the Militia
had a regular tyflcm. and could he immediately
called out. lie allced. was it wife at fuch a pc.
riod as the prefcnt to create difunion or make in-
vidious comparifnn
Mr. Wit.t.taft ELLIOTT raid that we were now

f"c••••,..l' to rave tSsos•-. I .
let:einies of the wora I,:eau'e ii
fetvice. 17r.:.. o
ceed:d t.: Inn- o!):erv.tti • n
`laid on a fn. nt.'s by !IL:
tof Ircla-si • v.•:: n l e r•AS to er b.:'r,
lonel Bagwell, who la;.1 that h. 7 did r i•
in riper to make any alitiilnti to lit.
Hon. Member in his ahf-nce.
Mr. ELLIOTT iefurrcti. He I ihe wilt) -.1 to
be an alarmia on this fobjefl ; and deell,e 1 .1;
it was his opinion that if a beard of Fiend,
rat Officers had been fitting G.r the on they
could not have formed a v.-oi to plan.
Lord CASTLFRFACII f id, that the pier,; t quell
eon was only, whether we lhould give (n-n
guineas a man, for the railing °la in Ire.
land ; he was well convinced the coantry tould
not be fo effectually defended without a Militia.
as by the combination of the two • ••o • f
-.•••
I The Adjutant General of Ireland I 1.! tinA
of a ballot in fome counties having •••• I tie re-
cruiting fervice; we had no fimilar complaint
re-
fpeding counties whet,: a bounty had been paid.
Befidcs, he thought this mode lcfs onerous than
that of providing 3 Inhflittite.
Lord CoLs thought highly of the Militia cha
ruder, and raid that, if the French were to lark!,
I they would find the Hill Militia havF Wilmer, as
(harp, and nerves as thong, as any other tri ~pc.
Colonel DACWLLL cordidered that the Militia
I was in many enhances to the rcgnlars, as the mer-
I chant fervice to the King's navy ; for, when once
a man had a red cost on, he would not readily
throw it off.
Mr. HILLY ADDINCTON laid, the argument
which had been ufed, that the prefent meafure
would be injurious to the Recruiting Service, had
been conclufively anfwered by his Right Hon.
Relation. In fad there was a conclutive anfwer to
it in the nature of things, as it was well known
that many perfons would prefer a larger bounty
and enlilling for lie, whilß many alfo would pre-
fer a (mall bounty and a limited period of fervice.
He had held a pretty high fituation in a Fencible
Regiment, part of which he had himfelf railed, and
he did not know any individual of it who would
recruit ,• and even when it was dilbanded, not one
fifth of the whole became regular foldiers. -lVith
refped to the Militia, he would alt a diffingui(hed
Officer (Sir Eyre Coote) who had fpoken in this
debate, whether a Regiment of Militia in fervice
at the period of the expedition to Holland, and fent
I thither, would not ferve with as much courage and
difcipline as any other? The Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Elliot) as well as his Right Hon. Friend (Mr.
Windham) had taken a comparative view of the
militia and the regulars,butin fuch a way as to give
all the merit to the latter ; and he confetTed fome
comment ad been made upon the Militia, which
excited unlafinefs in his mind. If the prefent was,
as had been Rated by a Right Hon. Gentleman, a
period of greater danger than any during the late
War, why depreciate one of our ben fupports? He
could not help thinking that they ffiewed a want
of conliftency. The Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr.
Windham) had thrown out a charge againit his
'Majelty's Government, of a want of profpeflive
will:Ions, and another Hon. Gentleman (Mr. El-
tot) had charged them with fabmiffive and pnfil-
' lanimoas condadts he defied thole Hon. Gentle-
men to produce a tingle iodance to prove thole
charges, and till they did that, inch charges mull
be confidered as mere random afiertions.

Mr. ELLIOTT, in explanation, Laid, he (Poke ge-
nerally, and declared hinthlf to be of opinion, that
the general conded of Mini!ter, was fuch as to in-
dicate fubmilEvenefs to France.

Mr. WIt4DHAM fpoke in explanation. He never
meant that there thould be nu Militia at all ; he
only alluded to the proportion of it, compared to
the handing army, which bethought much more
efrential to the defence of the country.
Mr. Dawson obferved, that it was rather ex-
traordinary the oppofition to this meafure fhould
have originated with two Gentlemen only who had
filled the fituadons of Secretaries at War and
who, while they were in office, mull have known
the great and important ferviccs performed by the
Militia of Ireland. He would tell there Hon. Gen.
denten, if they did not know it, that the Militia of
Ireland, combined with the Yeomanry, did more
fervice there than any other force. It was to them
the country was indebted for the fuppreffion of fhe
rebellion. He could not adduce a ilronger proof,
of what he advanced, than by pointing to an Ho-
nourable Friend of his then prefent (Colonel Ve-
raer), whole heroifm at the head of his regiment
of Militia, would be recorded In the annah of his
country ; and of whom the French General lium-
l.bert was heard to fay, that he was the moil for- ,
midable opponent he had met with during the
whole of his progrefs through Ireland.
The quellion was now loudly called for. The
refolution was agreed to, and a bill ordered. The
bill was afterwards brought in, read a &It, and
orkred to he read a fccond time to morrow.
The other Orders of the Day were poiiponed,
and at ten o'clock the Houle adjourned.