Star.
London, England, 1818-02-18 00:00:00

•

loble Lord's opinion, however it might be supported
that House, was not likely to have many advocates
the country. As to the character of the Secretary
the Home Department, of which the House had
heard so much, and of which he was not disposed to
speak with disrespect, he must ray, that after the
facts which had been brought forward, it was too
much to maintain that the character of any man
should preclude enquiry into these facts, or dispose
the House to indemnify persons concerned in the ac-
tual commission of cruelty. (Hear, hear, hear.)--
er what could be imagined more cruel than that of
`rich some of the Petitioners complained—.the pri-
aion of freedom and food—of sleep and health
st it was notorious that several of these unhappy
men were carried about the country from one prison
another for no other purpose, as it appeared, than
that of exhibiting them as spectacles to promote alarm,
• to extend the evidence of that alarm which Minis-
ters alleged. The Petitioner, to whom the motion
referred, was so taken through the country chained
Haynes ; but according to the Noble Lord the lat.
acknowledged some obligations to the officer by
/horn he was conducted in those journies. That
some humanity might have been shewn by the officer
'luded to, and felt by Haynes, was not improbable.
• was also probable that the conduct of some of the
sailers was humane ; and in his conscience, he be-
ieved, that one of the main reasons for the transfer
if the unfortunate Petitioners from one prison to ano-
:'ier, was in order to find the jailer most likely to
:onform to the wishes of the Ministers by whom those
Petitioners was committed to-prison.
Mr. ASHURST read a statement which appeared
be a report made to the Magistrates of Oxford, re-
stive to the condition of the county jail ; it described
the accommodations to be most excellent ; and
asserted that the State Prisoners confined there re-
' wned thanks for the treatment which they had expe-
rienced, nor was any complaint made, except by one
man, who said that his room had a smokey chimney,
Mr. HOME SUMNER testified also in favour efl
the jail in Horsemonger-lane ; and while he admitted
the humanity ascribed to Mr. Dixon, the surgeon, he
asserted, that if Ogden had not been there he would
awe lost his life through the rupture on which that
skilful 'surgeon had operated, for it appeared that
this Ogden had been afflicted with that disease long
before he was arrested—(Loud cries of hear, hear).
The Honourable Member deprecated any attention
complaints against jailers, considering the result
the inquiry with respect to those of Lancaster,
,incoln, and Coldbath-fields. In the case of Col-
confined in Coldbath-fields, it would be recol-
lected
that the Honourable Baronet (Sir Francis Bur-
dett) had made no objection whatever to the decision
,f the Committee, of which he himself was a member.
Sir FRANCIS BURDETT declared, that his only
reason for pressing no objection to the decision of the
iminittee alluded to, was simply this, that he saw
, the other Members of that Committee were una-
nimous against him, but still that his own opinion
was that Colville had been cruelly and unjustly treated.
Mr. BENNET said, that the ill treatment, espe-
cially the overloading with irons, which Ogden had
experienced in consequence of his arrest, was the
cause of that aggravation of his disease which ren-
dered necessary the operation alluded to. The Ho-
nourable Member expressed his belief of what had
been stated with regard to the prisons of Oxford and
Salisbury, for he was enabled from personal observa-
iaa to speak as to those prisons. With respect to
ilisbury prison, he could not suppose it possible
..tat any Member could be found in that House to
bear testimony in its favour.
Mr. PHILIPS said, that Ogden had called upon
him, to complain of the ill-treatment which he had
suffered, and had stated that the aggravation of his
%ease, occasioned by his imprisonment, had obliged
aim to submit to the operation alluded to by his Ho-
nourable Friend who spoke last.
The ATTORNEY-GENERAL contended, that,
se Petition of Ogden was drawn with no other view
than to excite an unmerited commiseration, by wish-
ng to convey that his physical sufferings were the
consequence of the heavy irons with which it was al-
edged he was loaded. That was a gross misrepre-
sentation. He did not presume to state what may be
he particular provisions of any intended Bill of In-
iemnity, but this he would assert, that if unjusti-
fiable cruelty was inflicted, no such conduct could
be protected by any future law. The House would,
however, bear in mind, that all those measures which
a perturbed state of the country those whose duty
. was to arrest prisoners, might have thought neces-
sary, for the security of the prisoners, were acts of
,necessity. With respect to their being sent to distant
prisons, the motive was, and he took upon himself
-onfidently to assert it, with a view to the comparative
•ornfort of the detained. What complaints would the
Louse not have heard, if these persons had been hud-
.led together in the crowded prisons of the metropolis?
The Noble Lord (Folkestone) had asserted, that after
detention, the Noble Secretary of State for the Home
Department had no right to release them without
trial. That he denied, as the Secretary of State, in
:ontradistinction to ordinary Magistrates, had the
power, before indictment, to discharge his own war-
rant. No person had been imprisoned on the oath
of the person whose information to Government had
been so much canvassed (Mr. Oliver). His commu-
nications had, however, given the clue to that which
led to the information of others. It was a link in the
chain of the confederacy, by which its connexion was
liscovered and defeated. For that defeat, the coun-
try was indebted to the Noble Lord at the head of
lie Home Department ; and if his exertions had not
I._ingui,lied these plans of desolation and pillage,
vit'f. what little regard any defence, founded on a fear
if ultimate responsibility, would have been received,
wen by those who now attacked his p,roceedings, it
as unnecessary to mention.
Mr. LAMB considered it as unwise and dangerous
to lay before an open Committee the grounds on
which these people were detained. Had, however,
the motion been limited to any alleged severity du-
ring the period of their confinement, he thought it
would be imprudent to deny it. The present motion
sot being so restricted, he felt it his duty to oppose it.
Lord FOLKESTONE, amidst cries of " Question,"
,riefly replied. He had no objection to the Commit-
ve's being secret. Several Honourable and Right
lion. Members, said his Loidship, have adduced the
lads of their own counties as being well managed,
nut none of them have shewn in moat state tic pri-