Star.
London, England, 1817-03-29 00:00:00

Mr. BROUGHAM obser' ee'Ll, that if be were to
pronounce his Honourable Fiierd's assertion, that the
clause before the House Would meet the support of
the majority of those then present, his Hinton:able
Friend would regard the grounds of his dissent as a
mere paradox. B it however the majority might de-
cide, be (Mr. Brough int) must &dare this clause I
was the most extraordinary and tiejustisable of the
three ur four dozen Amendments sent sheen from the
Lords, and of which the House had aheady disposed.
l'he Lords posiessed. no doebt, corsiderable privi-
leges, but to those privileges there must be some limit,
ur the privileges of the Assembly, which he had
oleo the lioaour to address, must 'oe a mere nullity.
Ii upon a Bill sent up by that Hieise for nee perpese,
he Lords !led poseee of eraiiine a ne:asere ter cmite '
amelter purpose, what became u! the privileges ot
th-it House, and the Arneedmetit snider discussion
was, he wettld inetireie, essentially diiTerent (tem the
original object and express prieeiple of the Bill te
which it was annexed. This Aniensinient was ire
deed totally inepplicable, even front a consicieratior
of the title of the Bill. For what hod a measure, the
title of which was, " A Bill for the more effectuelly
preventive of Seditious Meetines and Assemblies,"
to do with a Oen te for p-eventieg leg 11 meetings,
within a certain dist nice of Westminster !fell?
clause, ilifeed, Apple d to all meetings, whether fecal
or illegal, and therestire (11.1 not at all come within
the scope of the original P. lid at what beige
was this extreerdioery clause brought forward,
and under whet cioennst.ences :—(gear, hear) It
Was MI a getter:ill Ate. that was Stlistliiitvit to Ow
1 linise on this ere isitiii, but a lice! Act, that pro.
posed U. dtseluaiily one Feectors of ‘Vestoionster fount
eerie:sine a ri .t woich they had enjoyed from time
ininioneiial. Tee In se menntr its which this, as
wall as the other A triendtst its b ring tit forward on
th s o:cesion, Was drawn up, was psrlieps lees;
exceptionable tea: ore in their character. •I 'he House
cettle not interfere with any rielit sit the su i •ct. it
could not co:lsis:en:ly take a pony out se eny inet-
sidual's pocket, or put a penny into it, without pro-
ceeding in the reetilai Parliatneata: y course—without
appointing a C..111t11;1Ve to consi ler the subject, and
giving due *Leics. of the proposed enactment. Yet
tree now, at tee twelfth hour of legial &en, it Was
itlC:Sipttd to wrest an iaspot tent right froth the great
Is y of the Electors of Westininsier, (Hear, hear).
Yet tips, which had in tact all Cie ch :rester se a Pri-
vate hill, it we; propeszd to press without afforiin;
te the parties iii Crested ally oppertuait y of stating
Such a mode of pmt ending wee
he cootendee, by ler means fair deal ti either to-
wards the peep:e or towards that House—( (tm,
hear). It was, indeed, taking the pe iple by serielse,!
while it involved an outrage upon the privilege:: or I
that House. Of those privileges the Heese had I
usually been extremely tenecihus--efieti, itsdeed, that
tenecey had hetet etraiord and era-!;elated, I
his
opinion, with respect to any penalty :ntroduced by
the other House. But all tent ter.e.tizy proceeded
front a salutary jealousy of the ptiv!legts of that
House, and yet in the clause uathr ceeseieration, an
attempt was made to render these privileges nugatt try
—(f/tar, /tear). As to his Honocrable Ft iead's al-.
luesun to what took place at Westminster Meetings,
that was not the question then before the House.—
Foe the present question was not, whether tl.e West-
minster Meetings were well or ill conducted, but whe-
eler quite a new measure should be adopted, in the
shape ot an amendment by the Lords, in a diii with
witch that ausendinent had no natural reletian? This
amendment ploposed to guard the Pariiement and
tile Courts of Justice from any inconvenience or in-
sult, which might be a very proper pretvsion. But
why not make it the subject of a new Bill, iesteed of
connecting it with a measure for the prevention of
Seditious Meetings ; and thus the House would have
an opportuuity of fully considering its merit*? Why
connect a proposition of this nature with a Bill rela-
tive only to SAitious Meetings, instead of bringing it
forward as a separate measure in the usual form;
and by having it read a first and second time, com-
niitted and read a third time; affording •the House
the usual means for investigating its tendency and
character, before it came to a decision ? It was well
known that upon private bills the House solicited scru-
tiny, he might say opposition; that due notice was'
given to all parties concerned; and that such a course
WAS followed in all cases where private interests were
involved; that not a brick-bat was removed, nor a,
wider-cow-be changed, nfr the interest nor property
of any individual affected by any legislative proceed-
ing, without allowing every party to be beard by
Couneel, liefore such proceeding was decided upon.
In no times whatever, whether good or bad, had ibis
course been abandoned; and yet in this case it was
proposed to adopt a measure infringing the rights of
the Electors of Westudaster—(near, hear, hear.)—
if the subject of this Amendment should be brought
for ward as a separate Bill, he would be prepared to
discuss it; and he saw no practical inconvenience that
could result from postponing the consideration of
such a measure until atter one holidays, as neither
the Houses of Parliament, nor the Courts of Law,
were to sit in the interim. There was, therefore, no
occeston for hurry, for no danger could be apprehee-
sted from delay, even it a Bill embracing this object
were not adopted for a week or ten days after the
termination of the recess. No Westminster Meeting
was expected within that period; but wen if it took
place, where was the danger ? For his own part he
had never seen any danger, or practical inconve-
' clique from the Westminster Meetings. Langove
might have been occasionally employed at such Meet-
ings which was offensive to some persons, which was
possibly improper, but he never, with one exception,
heard of their interfering in any degree with the
functions of Parliament, or with those of the Cronus
of Law. He had heard of some tumultuous
Meeting* upon die discussion ot the Corn 13i11
(ts. Nose of she Hiesettiiiuter Electors," exclaimed reve-
red twice: soots Me Oftmitims Bringer.)—Tl.e Hoe
nourable Member observed, that from what his
Friends had said, it now appeared to him that no,
practical inconvenience had crer occurred in conse-
quence of the legal meetings of the Westminster
Electors in Palace-yard a therefore his objections to
this clause was strengthened; But there was another
inconsistency belonging to the proposed amendment.
According to the preamble of this amendment it was
meant to provide toe the protection of the Courts ot
Law ; and yet the amendment uself applied only to
the Courts ol.Lavrat Wostininster Hall, leaving those
at GritildhAllo Lincoliel Inn e Old Bailey, and

. . . .
elsewhere, comparatively unprotected ; thin leavinr i
thoim Courts unprotected which were most exposed.
and prilecting those which were least exposed. The
Courts at Guildhall were, it was notorious, held vn.
der the same roof, and within the same pm. as the
place appointed for popular Meetings in the City. and
those Meetings took place nearest to 61 most oh-
noxiots parts of those Courts, it any such parts there
were,
and he loved' not. If then the real ohject w i
the amendment were to protect the Adrniaistratlun
ofJostice, why leave those Courts so unprotected --
But he cautioned the House against beiag imperd!
opon by the affected solicitude for the adininistretion
of Juoice ; for it require) no such protection as this
amendment professed to have in view. Now as to the
constroesion of this Amendment, it was, indeed,
most cleinsily drawn up. (Cries of (Hear, heat. )
l'r:r it Ltil a complete loop-hole, oe %s:iteh the Eke-
to: s ( f Westeninster might *veil themeelees: to: neon
reviewing thit clause, it would be sees, witheot
dwelling urn the absurdity of the notice for mire
then fifty persons, as it any such notice ever sreci-
tied the nitusher to meet, that for the purpose of con-
sidering the distress of the country, or any petition
to Path-talent upon the sohject, the Electors ot West-
rnirster might still assemble in Palace-yerl, notwith-
standing the enactment of this clause. I: might be
Asked then, " why oppose this clause, if so inefficient
to the object you deprecate?" But to this he would
ees Nei-, (het he opposed it, because he d.sspproved
of the precedent, because that precedent involved a
violation of the privileges of that House, and was
grossly inconsistent with the dignity, deliberation,
olio, .! ;mum that ought to prevail in all its proceed-
ings i'Hear, hear.) —Besides a proposition, although
very cittrusily winded, might betray such a di peei-
ti n a. it was the duty at the House to deprecete and
repsi--( hear, hoer)—Recurring to the subject to the
Adnalassteetion of Justice, the Learned Gentlemen
Adverted to the conduct of Lord Iklenstield upon the
decision of the case of Wilkes, whole: popularity was,
in his judgment, a disgrace to the morel and intellec-
tus) character of the country. For sudi a man could
never deseive the esteem of any morel peopl:.—
But upon that occasion Lord Mansfield betrayed no
fear of the people, who crowded Vs'estnai.:eter Hail
to hear the jadgmetat respecting Wilkes. On the
contrary, Olio Learned Judge took Lie oss a caurse,
mid desia leg the d :ors ot the Court to be thrown open,
pronounced his Wile, equitable, and impiessive judge
meta before the conialees multitude, in a strain that
marked the firmness and noignenietity of his mind,
regetelless c f oil] :t consequences lollese.ed, and mind-
'.i, telly of the cititse co Justice and ot law which he
'CAS Ca led upon to administer. Such, lit his opinion,
aught arse: ye to be the course of a British Jude,
:and w:.ile British Judges so acted, they could have no
fear of ani resentirieat horn the British people.
Mr. CANNING said, that thou Ala none of the ob-
jections had been pressed, wh ch tie was induced to
expect, much had been adveaces:, which excited his
surprise from its novelty. The Honour-Able Member
wet° sosike first on the other side (Mt. Curwen) bad
descr;lned the Cause under consiJeratieu as a direct:
inOingetnent upon the privileges of the: anise.-
1 Chat the Lords had betrayed a disposition to veal a
march upon that Heuer, and ta uoiro .ell their lune-
Pi ins, by legislating alone for the do miry. If se,
this certatiary was a very dark mid intricate Islet
on the part el the Liods, and the Heiise should
congratulate itself upon the pos isesse m of so per.
SOCUOLIs a statesman as the Honourable Grath:net:l
to expose its object—( 4 hush, and hear, kar).
But it the [.'gads had really nomatested such a design,
he had no doubt that it would have been promptly
detected by the sagacity of the Ci i sa.r, t ..0 whose au-
thority the House would have shewn the seam: de-'
fe.rence as it bad time in the course of the
wining
upon an Amendment which actually interfered with
its privileges; this authority having, however, thought
otherwise, as he must infer from its silence, he hayed
he should stand excused if lie preferred it to that of
the Honourable Gentleman. But as to the olijsctions
of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman teem bed
just sat down, he took leave to say, that the Learned
Gentlemen at:as in etror, in supposing that the
Ameedment under consideration was at all at vo
riance wide the object of the Bal. For the Learned
Gentleman appeared to forget that this 13.11 wee a
measure of prevention ; and that having in view to
provide, that Meetings convened foe legal objects
i 'should not be turned to illegal or mischievous pur-
poses, it was perfectly consistent wi'la the scope of
such a Bill to graft upon it an Amendiveitt of rlais
nature. The dietress of the count, y was well known
to have produced a great deal at terinent and in its-
lion ; and the purpose of this clause was, that the
Electors of Westminster, who could not be exempt
from the general fermentation, should not be lieb:e,
thtoegh the influence of improper persons, to give
to that fermentation a peculiarly dangerous direc-
tion, by levelling it against the Houses of Par-
liament, or the Courts of Law—(llear, hear, hear.)
The people were not charged with the disposition to
:nisei:le!, but not supposed exempt (mom the general
feeling and liability, and hence this Clause was liaise-
td in order to remove these meetings to a convenient
distance trout that place where most mischief might
be done. For if nine-tenths of the people usually
assembled in Palace Yard were perfectly innocent of
any illegal purpose, as he believed they might, still
they were as liable as other men in those times to be
added by inflammatory demagogues, and hence it
was wise to transfer these meetings from that spot
where most mischief might be suddenly and irrepa-
rably perpetrated. This was the only view of the
Clause, and as it did not interfere with the txereise
of any legal right, he could see no objection to its
enactment, and therefore he felt it his duty to give it
1 his support. But the Hon. and Learned Gentleman
went further, and cited the conduct of Lord Mans-
field, who was so alarmed and terrified by the iiopti-
letion of Westminster and London - pouring down
into all the avenues of the Court. that be ordered the
doors and windows to be thrown open before he pro-
nounced sentence. But where was the megnaniniity,
where was the fearless heroism of that example
Lord Mansfield knew he was about to deliver a judg-
ment in concurrence with the passions of that mob ;
he knew he was going to reverse the outlawry of
, Wilkes, and really, sander such circumstances. it re-
spired no great degree of fortitude in him to declare
that he was ready to die at his post—(.:ear, hear.)—
There was one part of • the Honourable end Learned
Gentleman's speeds, -however, v711;e11 undoubtedly
excited lais surptik, wheat he cou:idett.d hi:, extent of

reading, his depth of judgment, and his accuracy of
argument. The Honourable and Learned Gentle-
man expressed his astonishment, as well as his clic-
gust, that a character, so blasted in all its mor.'l qua-
lities as that of Wilkes; shou;.l have b•.:cione the idol
of the day ia ith the pzi ple of Es,2,land, af4.d he seemed
to consider it as v sin.silar circumstance. Put l•t
him salieli the hisi.ity of all times, from the cr-
c!sses of ancient Democracy down to mo:iein -Taco-
binkm, and se!ieri would he find the man wh.)
stimulated poplifir frenzy into tumult sedi-
tion, that was ert•mpt. from private victs Let
him starch the b_ginnings of those Revo!utlons
which had over tiviiid Manarchise and States, ..nd he
wou:d find :he seciet incendiai ies, the first dark plot-
ters of those mischtt f 4, putting forth th., deloded pza-
plc as their instruments, while they forked in base
cunceslment, watzlitui ,t; their sa!eq• It he
crnid rind as insttnce where destiatiguesi having
such deiigns, were men of blameless ch,racters, of
exemplary domestic conduct, of private worth and
virtue,
th
indeed, [night. he 11.1,i forth as an
exceptionhut till that was don•., till h;sti:ry ras
Y7'
reversed, fill the experience t
wakes must be considered, IPA Ai 111 t! f, !..;.7;:f, hit
merely one of a gregarious Lind, a Kaiii!:t of ill-, Shire,
and Representative of the v. ,r.) 1. was
to guard Ag tiost evil • of the desci:;)tioli %%inch sa-y
men sought to produce, th.s. the wh..l • of the present
measures were ilt•vised ; and t%:,:ret, 7e be she •Id give
the clause in question the same sts:y9:l ai he had
those measures, which were calculatAi to protect'the
liberties of Englishmen, sounitly and
which he believed were called fur by the exigencies
of the rimes.

Mr. BROUGHAM, in explanatien, said thet:the
Right Honourable Gentleman was mistaken in what
he had stated with respect to Mr. Wilkes. Part of
the judgment in that gentlemai 's case WAS !avowable
to him, namely, the reversal of the outlawry ; but the
sending him back to prison was very far item being
a popular measure; and therefore it was clear that
seine danger attached to the Judge, and yet ne threw
open the (news and windows ul the Court—(fiear.)
Mr. PONSONBY said he had as little respect ter
the character of Wilic:s .is L's Honourable a,,J Lear:
ned Friend, but he unquestionably had great merit
with the people of England, and received their rep-
port. ley ought not to forget, it was owing to his
spirit and exertions that an end was put to the doc-
trine of general warrants—a practice completely sub-
versive, so far as it went, of the personal libetty ti
Eeglishrnen. With respect In the invective. of the
Right Honourable Gentleman against demagognet
and jaeobins, it had tint/ling at all to do with the nab-
ject then before the House, and to which he now
wished to call their attesniset. He really was sus-
.
pribed that no one among ilwniseives, not even the
Speaker, hadidiscovered the danger to which ?Arlie-
mein, it appeared, had been S 3 long exposed ; and
that the H..use of Lords, at last, seas forced to ar.acrt
its safety. What he chiefly complain:l ef in the
clause was, that the Lard allouid enact it in the MM.
ner they had done, and send it down to that House,
leaving only an opi;astusiity fur a single discussion;
He could not only consider that as an attack upon
their privileges, iii the sniet sense of the wind, but
as a departu•e tram the rain ebject of the Bill which
had been sent up to them. Ile also objected to the
mixing of any coissideratioas Perteicing to de:Ct;:irti
of iigetice, with wes.e. reiY:eci o::".:tlS!V:iy...o PArill.
ment. Had any instances aCtlEttiy tarty pl4ze, is
which the Courts of Westmiiisttr Hall Sad s :alined
inconvenience from Meetings in Paia:e-yarti? Could
*single case be stated ? It public meetings were to
be considered as always liable to that start of peeves..
sum which the Right Hoinsurable Gentleman had
stated, his argument would go to the total probilaid
tion of all assemblies of the people. He certainly
could me help tending a little jealousy optic:tithe hub.
jeer of this elanse. It originated with a part of the
Legislature which seemed to have toe least to do with
it. In none ot the spre:hes delivered at Wetamin-
ster Meetings, so far as he had read, nor in any of
the petitions presented to that /louse, had the dignity
or privilege of the Pterage heel As:ailed, and why
then should it rep forth to guard against a danger
which the House of CoMilmis did nut perceive, or
to provide a protection which the H •use olCominons
did not asks That was one, among the other grlunds
of his objection to the clause, and besides, he i egerded
the whole ploceeding as unparbassientary, imatual,
And without Alty similar precedent. He should there-
tore vote against it.
Sir W. DURROUGH entered into a review of Vie
misconduct of Ministers in not c saint; Pathan:eta to:
gethet earlier, though they were aware ot the din.
gets which threatened the country; awl afser carets.
ing Isis approbatinn ot the measures th it hid beet
adopted, which he considered not }stronger than the
exigeecies ol the times demanded (with me tscv;ii A
of the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus), he c in-
cluded by signifying his assent to the Clailaes
Mr. WILBERFORCE said, that hiving bee,
prevented by itidisposition from -attending tt.e pro,.:rir3
of the recent measures in that House, he was very
anxious to s:ize that occason, licasaver late, et el-
pressing his approbation in them, becaese he theueht
they were most necessary fir preserving and securing
Ithe liberties of the people of England.
Lord COCHRANE said, 11. c (louse must kiow,
that public meetings were holden in the Guddhell
of London, and why was more danger to arise to
Wes!minv.er•Hall, than to a Court of Justice sitting
in Guiitlk all Tl.e Counts of instice ought to be ex-
punged Item the clause, or Westminster-Hall should
be omitted. This elauseosrustrlactrniitalhoenribeda:tfo:thit
e adjourned,rthem,
should ,
oe
rt
be. lawful for aoy persons, 6tNe.ottov meet on chase actionycaide
jauveytadidho
d
septennial Parliament...-.
mustnw)6r le(:Ci1 prorogued
it
fliti: I.CCd',,,'',:etij!;: 1./o)lViretialesil;;etuoaoirsnlNitlss'elheiitto: on the days of tittina.)7..flOW.
ever. has mini objection e.ent to the whole of the
Clato.e. In t.'e proceedings in Palace-y“rd there had
neon no tumult, no outrage, no obstruction ; no vt
penance whatever indicating even so rinc:i warmth
as had been manifested that night by n lti,iit Eon.
Gentleman who had lately returted !.oin trit Embassy
to Lisbon—(Near, hear, and a :..nth). He believed
the House would find, Hot only twit tills Clause was
faulty in thew resptctF, hut that there Iv:-
sit, whatever for ailiptiog it ; and that it
violation
in s
te r._
(of
i ther hf,).
privileges or the Citizei
in
The H .r. Mr, LY rTELTON said,,

,As no neces-
t was a gross
ens of West-
that hckati