Star.
London, England, 1826-03-14 00:00:00

that titescm- e. sutei
all. ututeeessary -
excessive
*het%

I

light-of knowledl
and peek_
to look up to those in, duty
dente: it is not the language of exaggeration or over con-
fidence to say, that We are engaged In a right
let me add, a prosperous coarse. We mat have un-
dergone recent embarrassments—the sudden violence of
unexpected calamity may have coins upon us—we have
encountered, and may have-again to encounter the tem-
pest—but it only remains for us to resist it manfully....
and, if we are compelled

to suffer
The stings and arrows of outrageous fortune,"
it is only for us--

—" to-take up arms against sea of troubles,
And, by opposing, end them."--(Meers).
By making our exertions proportionate to the difficulties
with which we have to contend, can we alone hope to

overcome them. And these exertions cannot be better

directed, than by pursuing that system, of policy on
which we have entered, and by which we shall be en-
abled to arrive at that great object of all -good govern-
ment—the happiness and well-being of the people.

IThe Right Hon. Gentleman sat down amid loud and continued
cheering from all sides of the House.]

As soon as the qpiause subsided, the Right Hon. Gentleman
proposed the vote of Annupl Duties on Pensions and Me&

Mr. MABERLY said, the Right Hon. Gentleman
had gone back to 1823, to institute a comparison be-
tween that year and the present ; and in this respect he
had not acted (pite fairly, as in 1822 there had been
an additional charge of 2.800,0001. which the Right
Hon. Gentleman did not take into his consideration.

a greaf
prove thit brafrpference to the last ten years, and
not, as the flight Hon. geut,had done. by referring to any
single year. When the papers to which he had alluded,
and which would complete the series of returns which he
had moved for—(hear, and a- langh)-:.yes, when the
series of minis for which he had moved, and he was
obliged ro Move for such returni, and to see that they
had the signature of the proper officers, or the accuracy
of his statements amid, in all probability be denied—
he should be able to state, aS he had ollserved, that the
• Right Hon. Gentleman was quite mistaken with respect
to the amount of Consumption in many other articles, as
well as in that of malt, which had decreased fifty per
tent. In the article of beer, there had been a decrease
of sixteen and a half per cent. In the consumpthm
sugars, there had been also a considerable decrease, as
well as in tobacco and tea. If the Right Hon. Gently
man had taken the advice which he (Mr. Hume) had
given him with respect to the funding of Excheqoer,
-bills last year, he would not have had to experience
the loss which must inevitably attend the measure is
the present state of the market. Last year, he might
have done so with effect when the price was, ninety-six
or ninety-seven ; but now at seventy-five or seventy-six,
he must do so at a loss of twenty-tive per cent. or in
other words, two millions and a half will be thrown
away, and lost fir ever to the country, in consequence
of the imprudence of the Right. Hon. Gentleman. In
what stay, he would ask the Right Hon. Gent. dirt he
mean to pay the difference of interest on these ten mid
lions? With regsrd to what the Right Hnn. Gent. had
said with reference to the diminotioo in the expense of
collecting the revenue, he (Mr. Hurtle) believed he might
claim some credit f r pat reduction. He had for three
successive years been urging his Majesty's Ministers to
effect that reduction before they attended to his remon-
strances. At length, hotvever, they sent out the Corn-
missioners to Ireland, and he would not deny that they
had done great good, and effected 4 reduction of at
least half a million. When he first called the attention

When, therefore, he talked of a diminution of two mil-

lions, as compared with 1819, he seemed to forget, or
did not choose to acknowledge, that there had been in
reality an increase of nearly one million, Ministers
having, in 1822, increased the debt by 2,800,0001. and
got rid of the Sinking Fund. Again, with sespect to
the Unfunded Debt, which the Right Hon. Gentleman
alleged to have been reduced—he (Mr. Maherly)
granted that it had been reduced. But how ? By paying
off Exchequer. Bills, and creating a fresh debt. The de-
ficiency Bills, for example, in 1825, were 5,500,0001.
and what is the amount of the deficiency Bills in 1826?
Why just 5,500,0001. So that this was borrowing with
one hand to pay with the other. The Right Hon.
Gentleman's statement, with respect to the Revenue,
was just as unfair. He had not given the_ returns up to
the present month, which would have been the true
way to enable the country to judge of the real state of
the Revenue. Last year the Right Hon. Gentleman
had stated the surplus of Revenue at 861.,0001.--EThe
CHANCELLOR of the EECHECtUER said, that he had
made that statement before he thought it advisable to
effect a reduction of taxes; but when that reduction
to.alt place, the amount of surplus necessarily became
less.j—That he admitted altered the case. With res-
pect to the proposed measure of the Right Hon. Gen-
dem in, that of funding Eschcquer Bills, he approved
of it very much, but he Is as sorry it had not been
adopted last year. when it could have been done
with so much greater effect. Ile acknowledged that when the
Right Hun. Gentleman bad reduced the 4 and S per Cents. it was
not to tie expected that he could at the saute time reduce the un-
funded debt. Although late, it was better to adopt the plan of
funding Exchequer Bills now, than not at all. It would, at all
events, prevent the possibility of Government being caUtd upon to
pay them like promissory notes. The Right Hon. Gentleman ex-
pressed his intentiurrof funding are or ten millions of Exchequer
Bills, and applying the existing Sinking Fund to the reduction of
the Funded Debt. He (Mr. Maberly) thought it would have been
better if arrangements were made for getting rid of the Dead
Weight in Me, and applying the Sinking Fund to some other pur-
pose. Having thus exoreised his opialon upon some of the Right
Hon. Gentleman's propositions, he should not further detain the
House, than by saying, that it would give him sincere gratifica-
tion to find that all the Right Hon. Gentleman's anticipations
were realized.
Mr. HUME trusted the House would 'not be led
away by the Right Hon. Gentleman's eloquence, from
looking at the real state of the case. The Right Hon.
Gentleman had, in his (Mr. Hume's) opinion, acted
most unfairly and delusively towards the House and
the country, in the statement which he had just deli-
vered. He had chosen one period to spew the amount
of taxes, another to shew the amount of the reductions,
another to shew the amount of revenue, and a fourth
to shew that of consumption, with a view of proving
that three parts of England were better off at this mo-
ment than they ever had been. But, in selecting these'
different periods, he had, in his (Mr. Hume's) opinion,
been acting very unfairly and evasively. He (Mr.
Hume) would not have risen had it not been in conse•
quence of a statement which he had himself made a
few nights back, in which he advanced certain propo-
sitions which had been met by a flit contradiction, op
the part of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and his Right
lion. Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. Those
Right Hon. Gentlemen had said, that his (Mr. Hume's)
statements had been incorrect; but be (Mr. Hume)
wouid prove them to be right. The chief point of dis-
pute between the Right Hon. Gentleman and himself,
consisted in the assertion that there had been, since the
peace, a reduction of taxation to the amount of between
twenty-seven and thirty millions: an assertion which he
denied had any foundation in fact, as he would contend
that the mode of taxation had alone been varied ; but
that not one shilling of taxes had been reduced since
1817. The Right Hon. Gentleman had no right to
go back to the year 1816, when the country had scarcely
recovered from the effects of a long war, and when
there was no certainty of her enjoying a permanent
peace. In the three succeeding years, however, what
was the amoant of taxes? In 1817, it was 51,983.01.
In 1818, 52,000,0001. In 1819, 51,000,0001. Now, if
the amount of the taxes of the three last years,
namely, 1829, 1824, and 1825, were compared with
that of 1817, 1818, and 1819, it would be seen
that no reduction, but, on the contrary, a consider.,
able increase, had taken place. In 1828, it was'
52,561,0001. In 1824, 52,685,0001. In 1825, 54,044,0001.
The Right Hon. Gentleman's statement had not been
at all satisfactory to him. There had been no reduc-
tion in the expenses of the country. All our establish-
ments were continued on a war scale. The army cost
the nation 'Pt 700.0001. the nave-6,100,0001. and these,
together with the Ordnance and Miscellaneous esti-
mates, cost the na:ion, altogether, a sum of seventeen,
millions and a half. Was this enormous eatablishmenr
to be endured in a time of Frofoend peace? When the
papers moved for by his Hon. Friend, the Member for
Abingdon, were laid upon the table, he' (Mr. gime)
would prove, that the *Right Hon.Gentlernan's state-
ment with respect to the
.amount of debt, and the charge
upon it, was not correct. "- He 'had tomparrkd the rear
1816, a year of great depression, with 'lBllt, =Co, el-
iraoidinary consumption, aid he called open the He*

-

of .
and itspreiiing
_ hectirteinly thousebt
ale . some of the ob,ervations made upon it.
But, in saying rhit, he did not wish to pledge himself
lathe adoption of say particular course. either with reference .tit
nice bargain made with the Bank, or to any ulterior measures to be
adopted; yet he thought, that when the perhki of that bargain had
aspired, some arrangements, advantageous to the country, might
be made (hear). With respect to the debt, he wished it to he
undentood that he meant to fund from 8,000$X)0/. to 0,000,000 i.
of that sum ; he meant to repay to the Bank 6,C00,0001. and thus,
by buying Stock be Exchequer Bills, 5,4 00,0004 would go to the
reduction of the Unfunded Debt in the Market.
Mr. CALCRAFT oti er'ed, that with reference to
the subject of the Dead t, he wished to ask some
information concerning promotion in the army. A re.
gulation had been adopted by his Royal Highness the
Commander in Chief, to allow Officers to purchase rank
by purchasing half-pay. A young 'Officer might pur-
chase a majority of a senior, and it looked like the pur-
chase for a better life. He believed, however, that when
a purchase of this kind took place, an accurate calcolt•
!ion was made of the value of the half-pAy, and the
overplus of the purchasi-money given by the jqolor,
was paid to commissioners i.n• account of the pubilt.,..
He wished this point to be explained, for it was net It that oil&
-misapprehension as he 'had referred to should prevail. The Hon.
Member congratulated the country and the House on the sum-
,lllolit of the Right Hon. Gentleman.
air CHARLES LONG confirmed the statement of the Bon.
Member. The difference was paie to the Payawater-General on
account.of . the Tublic. • •
Captain GORDON expressed his surprise at the remarks of his
Right Hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), on gbe
. banking system of Scotland :` he thought the arrassemat wbuld
'prime-beneficial to that country.
The CHANCELLOR of the EX.CHEQUER• tatendtd
eulogise the country, and was surprised his Gallant Friend bed
misunderstood him. .
. Sir CHARLES FORBES hoped, that if the Right
Hon. Gentleman persisted in intro ting with the Uotcli
system of banking, the Scotch MeMbers would do.their
duty, taking a pattein from the Members for the sister
country, and stick together. He (Sir C. Forbes) would
oppose this prelims of the Right Hon. Gentleman night after night ;
and if only one Member would stand by him, he pledged blmtett
to defeat the measure.

of the House to the subject, the expense of collecting Mr. ELLICE observed, that although so mach had.
the revenue-in lieland was 26 per cent. upon the amount been laid of the prudence which governed the conduct
collected—in Scotland 16 per cent. and nine per cent. of the Scotch beakers, and of the legitimate principles
in all other parts of the kingdom. It was in vain, however, to think upon 'which their transactions proceeded, yet he thought
of making any effectual reduction in the burthens of the country, it somewhat inconsistent with those high pretensions for
until the landed interest cooperated with the other classes in prompt- them to come down to the House as petitioners, praying
fag economy and retrenchment. The Hen. Member concluded, hy
saying, that he had not derived the slightest saddaction from the for indulgence in point of time, emreating,for a longer
statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman. • period in which to make their arrangements. He con.
Sir J. NEWPORT felt himself obliged to express an fisted himself unable to comprehend why a measurer
opinion quite different from that which the Hon. highly expedient for England should not apply with
Member for Aberdeen entertained with respect to the equal advantage to Scotland. He trusted that some.
conduct of Ministers—(Hear). lie thought that the thing-would be draw to afford relief from the duty on
country was greatly indebted to the Chancellor of the soap; and though extremely sorry to press further re-
Exchequer, and the Right Hon. President of the Boaid ,petting reduction, where the disposition towards it ap-
of Trade, for the measures which they had adopted Pealed already so favourable amongst his Majesselt,
since they had been in office. They had effected con- illnitusr 411P1';4 ti
the dat d
oa reeerstutri thave""til atiargm'
siderable reduction of taxation, and placed inatterslu thet:Nt.BlLlGlAT'said'thit''°!a;'lhere would tea
such a train that. a progressive reduction must continue of anihutufted andlWenly thbusand Rounds, he wishes'
h Ito take place, whicwould, he belieied, partic.ulaily tolinots kWh Wai' apply that
.sum.—.
in the case of Ireland, cosine,. an increased revenue. mete lraiimie
re ctms "which he thought that
The measures which Ministers ha.*loptef for reform-
insetae sa
yable g the mode of col the revenue. ip Ireland would skitiei payable •Awrip-a.' .rat 116 w. erearbe aware
'work a gi eat moral improvement in the. habits of . the. dm it omit ac which In lalriat inumber td instatieetituist bit
people. He trotted that Ministers would, carry their radtllkaottkivit iv* one which Pressed spa a eh* which view
reforms with respect to the revenue of I/standstill co be„aß urd' •
-further than they had already proceeded- with them. 1.7,5r5.. -r..,SICISSCIN said, that wbea on a former aright
He was of opinion that the revenue jurisdiction.of Ire-
hi; Eight Hon. Friend (Mr. C. Grant) had. apokeit .of
land should be entirely abolished. In the post-office the duty on soap, he had intimated that the ventage-
merit relative to it wirs.thit—s...hat all who‘ used it for
department the mast scandalous abuses prevailed.
Might not this be incorporated with the English depart- the purposes of marbufactum should enjoy able same
advantages as those .engaged in.the woollen. asanufae,
rent ? He ventured to throw oat the suggestion...for the red-
deration of Ministers, and trusted that It would obtain atteorfin tune—namely, that of a drawback of the duty. On
from them. • the subject of dye-stuffs, he was surprised to find
Mr. BARING, although he concurred with his Hon. that any Honourable Member found it necessary
Friend behind him, as to the uncertainty and fluctuating to observe, for it could scarcely be fOrgotten that
condition of circumstances under which the Chineellor there had been imposed upon them no more than a*
of the Exchequer had brought forward his statement, nominal duty. In fact, one of the chief coosid*atioas
yet expressed his hope that that statement. would give last year, in making the commercial arrangements, was
as much satisfaction to the country at large as it had to reduce to the lowest posskbic scale the duties affecting
afforded to the House. He allowed that it was difficult the moufactures of the ,country. The surplus of
to say, in the present 'state of the country; indeed it 120,0001. which had been adverted to, was, it must be
was impossible for the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or confessed, rather small, considering tee large amount
any other man, to estimate the probable results of the upon which it wait calculated ; and so far from going
revenue returns of the year—a year of bubbles.— to seek for a mode by which to appropriate it, he agreed
Projtcts must be attended with an artificial consump- with the Hon. Member fur Taunton (Mr. Baring) that
Lion, and a bubble revenue ;'the increase of trade pro- the matter of regret was that the surplus should be so
ceeded from a momentary excitement ; the general trifling on so large a calculation. The Hon. Member
failures can ed a suspension of those luxurious enjoy- for Aberdeen had noticed .the necessity .ftw landing
meats which had created the increase of revenue, and seven or eight millions of 'Ecchequer,Bills. 'Even that
the revenue must suffer a proportionate decrease, which operation, supposing there were no other means, would
would probably be confined to the current year. Under go near to consume the whole of that sum—peisiblY
all circumstances, he considered the Chancellor of the not less than 100,0001. wouldhe consumed by it. The
Exchequer's statement, a very far one. No Minister Honourable Member for Abingdon had endeavoured
could be blamed for such conduct, in his present cir- to confuse one of the Most luminous statements
cumstaaces, and though some minor poitits of the state• that had, perhaps, ever 'beert delivered within 'the
meat may be comfit° observation, yet when looked at walls of that House. That non. Gentleman had pro-
as a whole, it appeared so satisfactory that he should ceeded upon an entire misconception of the facts, for
.be very reluctant to criticise particular passages. As to he had asserted nothing less than that the public.deist,
the surplus of seven hundred thousand pound it was in amount of capital, interest, and charge, had-fur
scarcely worth thinking of, when considered in connec- creased since the year 1819. It had been said that by
tion with a revenue of 54,000,0)01. comparatively it figures almost anything could be. proved, and certainly
was no surplus at all ; particularly wheadt was rement- a practical illustration of this maxim had been given by
bered that five hundred and eighty thousand pound was the Hon. Gent. the Member for Aberdeen. His fallacy
made up by the four hundred thousand pounds which consisted in his asserting,that ;he debt of the calmly
"had accrued from Irish coin, and one hundred and eighty during the past year increased seventy millions and up.
thousand pound from lotteries, both of which returns wards, with an increase upon that of two millionein the.
could not be expected to recur next year. The amount of form of charge. This was for the dead weight. This
the Sinking Fond was not so great as it ought to be, every debt---the whole of which would be, spread over a
country in Europe,except Spain, had a Sinking Fund for period' forty-five years, a debt extending over a period
the purpose of meeting contingent expenses ; ours was only two mil- that reached from the present year to the yeas-1660,Avaa
liens mid a half. Glebe reduction of charges.-which amounted to all sooken of by him as confined to-the past year 1825.
1,110111,0001. a great portion had arisen from the savings made by * s- -
diminution of the interest of the Four and Five per Cents. these The payment of an annuity of two millions eight boa-
aims erweaatsd to acto,ooot. Having observed that an arrangement dred thotisani pounds during the next forty-five years
with the Bank es the subject of the 11,000,0001. of Dead Weight. vat taken by him as an addition to the public debt
was a very desirable measure. the Hon, Member concluded by in
made 1825, and as belonging exclusively to. that
stating. that sines he had bad a seat that House, he never
heard a statement so satistectory to himself, and, be trusted, w year. t pan such grounds" as these it was that' the
the general public. Honourable Gentleman cried out to the Government to
The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUER wished put an end to the Dead Weight. There was another
to set the. Hon: Gentleman right upOn some of his state• argument of that Hon. Gentleman to which he wnotd
merits, It was said that the four thousand pounds of advert, though this was not the first time of his b4ing-
old Irish coin, and the eighty thqusand pounds to be iris it forward. The reasoning amounted to this; that
derived horn I;otterietthis yearn could not be considered Ministers, though they reduced taxation betweeaturenty
as permanent revenue,.. and then the question. was hand thirty. millions, still left the burdens of'the people
naturally asked; how that deficit was to be made good undiminished. There was a reduction ; that wield.
.next year? His answer to this was, that the' growing mated; but because the taxes, when reduced* were
progress of the other branch .s of the revenue was likely, in the remaining departments more. productive draft
to make up for any deficiency of this nature. Again, Fbefore the reduction, it was inferred that net,tes
the Hon. Member made some stbvereations relative to. lid was afforded, which amounted to sauna that
'the diminution of the interest Of the National Debt; and. the people of England were as Much mewl!.
there, too, lie mistriken. .1104 e. Wheal) stated; ,nienced by the present amount of taxation as if
rthit (he Debt of 1823 eims greater than that** 1420.„ no reduction had ever been made; that, in - hikt,
;arid then he went au to bring in the Mail We:ght,.soma taxation pressed now as heavily as it, did in the
how or other. He (the Chancellor of the &cheque') had year 1816 ; that the increased consumption, in a h cii

• . .
tee. stile' itii confirmed by #ariisiaidbatimit 16 iiibi to the: .. ''• ibit iiii sou gici :11.41iera..*". 11",,,-- iiiid.--. that-a Atop .71tett. this 00111 ion droll' iat
le•essatY patronage he beenvur effid dial al fare In Aitati afick s i*-..,Attt **light Ittat, pleemsl by tbeHoito And by .006 -Lament sufficient EsPoo
f
ye elpenditurebas been redueett—addltboTti% Gitlthatiii *imiteij; the aid,ottat if. Ohnstimystleo that subject. He should not outer init.) the details Of it at
behold, ss tespets.the petSple iti rage, thiAlse hi *any iastince. - In the article If Malt, fpftinacilti, proem, but should take a fit oppoitunity of bringing-
I knowledge has dispelled the mists of nlaid prove,'. bleb there-Whig unfitscrease, it under the consideration of the House, and expressing
ignorinie he i
Jodiie,audthatthey have'seassand discrimination there bad been a greaf diminution of -consumption. , He the opinions of Ministers upon it, as he certain% y thouse.ht
up to those in whom it is their duty to place'cOnfi= would pre thit.bravrferente to the last ten years, and it liable to_ some of the ob,ervatioos made upon it.