The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-09-03 00:00:00

SOME ERRORS AND EVILS WHICH DO AND
MUST RESULT FROM THE VOLUNTARY SYS-
TEM.
TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.
SlR,—Voluntaries allege that the Gospel retains in itself a
power of procuring its support, and they allege that it is a
want of faith in their opponents, in the power of Gospel
truth, which causes them to apply to the world for any sup-
port to Gospel ministers ; here it might be remarked that the
mind of voluntaries on the subject is perfectly contrary to
the mind of God, for when God established a Church he ap-
pointed the civil rulers to provide for its temporal wants. Is
it not a most extraordinary thing that voluntaries cannot be
brought to see the great difference between the Gospel it-
self and the means of supporting its teachers? No doubt
the Gospel is all powerful to accomplish the ends for which
it is appointed, viz., the conversion of sinners, &c. ; but God
has appointed, and has made it the duty of all, to give tem-
poral support to his servants who preach the Gospel. It is
true that God could in some miraculous way provide for the
support of his ministers ; but if he has made it the duty of
all to give the needful support, and that God's law, in this,
is not attended to, there is surely no reason.to expect that a
miracle should be wrought to please men's fancies. Let
us suppose a Gospel minister going to preach amongst a peo-
ple who hate (as all sinners do) the Gospel; how is he to be
supported? On voluntary principles, it would be criminal
in him to receive the smallest matter of support from such
people, for it would be causing the people to commit a crime
—of course a crime in the receiver. How different the prin-
ciple which Jesus taught his disciples when he sent them to
preach ; his instructions were, to take nothing for their sup-
port, but from all in all places, tq take as their just due
whatever might be offered them, for the workman was wor-
thy of his hire. But let us suppose the voluntary system
acted on in these kingdoms—of course all support of every
kind taken from ministers—what must inevitably be the si-
tuation of these countries? I may mention Ireland, the cir-
cumstances of which (relative to religion) I well know. In
that country, not less than five hundred Gospel ministers,
now labouring zealously, and forward in every good work,
must be laid aside—they could not live on the air, and in the
province of their labours (where so few ChristiaLs reside),
they could not be supported • and there is no doubt but in
this kingdom and Scotland the like results would follow.
But voluntaries refer to the United States of North Ame-
rica, where the voluntary system is in full operation, and
they say it is working well ; when they say so, how little
they seem to knoveof the state of that country. The follow-
ing statement comes from authority, and it shews that, so far
is the system from working well, if long persevered in, it
must banish the Gospel from a great part of the States :
" The Episcopalians have one-third of their churches unsup-
plied with ministers, the Lutherans five-sixths, the Uni-
versalists one-half, the Christian Society three-fourths,
the Presbyterians, one-fifth, the Congregationalists, one-third,
the Free-will Baptists, one-fourth, the Associate Presbyter-
ians, one-half, the Dutch Reformed, two-thirds, the Cum-
berland Presbyterians, one-third, the Seventh Day Baptists,
one-fourth ; and a minister of the States writes from New
York " that not one in twenty of the pastors could support
themselves on their stipends." But without any such state-
ment, it must be evident to every person who thinks at all
on the subject, that all the backward and thinly inhabited
parts must be without gospel ministers, and this is confirmed
by every one who has travelled there, and also by all the
settlers in these districts. Voluntaries allege that unbelievers
are not under the obligation of obeying the precepts and or-
dinances given to the church. In this is involved a most gross
error ; it is this—that a person not having done his duty in
performing one act of obedience, exonerates himself from the
guilt of the non-performance of other following duties. It
was surely the person's duty to believe the gospel, and so to
he enabled to perform all Christian duties and ordinances.
On this voluntary principle, a person might with impunity
disobey almost all moral duties ; he might thus reason, it is
true there is a certain duty which I am bound to perform,
but the duty is to be performed at a certain place, but I shall
not go to that place, and so get clear of my obligation. Dr.
Wardlaw, in one of his lectures, says, that it is as much an
ordinance of God, that the church support itself, as it is his
ordinance to observe the Lord's supper ; and the opponents
to this principle, voluntaries upbraid with want of faith, when
they apply to the world for assistance to support the minis-
ters of the gospel. It would surely be very desirable that
voluntaries on this subject would " show their faith by their
works," for not one of them in this matter acts according to
his avowed faith. Why do not the pastors enforce on the
`church the obedience of this ordinance of God, by telling the
church that all sittings In the house of worship are free to all,
that church members are to give to the support of the gospel
just what they please, but by no means to take money from
any but a member, as by doing so they would break an or-
dinance of God? Having had some experience of the work-
ing of this principle, I may be allowed to mention the follow-
ing circumstance :—I was once a member of a church, the
pastor of which, with some of the members, wished to act on
the voluntary system ; the house had been built and seated,
and every one was at liberty to take a seat and pay what he
pleased, the church consisted of about 60 members, and very
few of them poor, and all that could be got from the church
was about £4O. I was collector, and believing it proper that
all hearers (at least) should pay, I applied to all, and with all
my exertions, could never collect more than £5O. or £60., so
the poor good pastor, for good he was, lived a few years in
penury, and then died. I may mention another case, in
which voluntaries act quite contrary to their avowed princi-
ples. They allege that governments should in no manner
meddle or interfere in matters of religion, and I need only re-
fer to the proceedings of the Town Council here to show how
contrary they have acted to their avowed principles—so soon
as they became rulers in the state, one of their first acts was
(as far as their power extended) to endow and support every
religion, and besides they have made it imperative on their
teachers in their schools, to see that the scholars should be
instructed each in the doctrines of the religion which he pro-
fessed, whether, of course, these doctrines be true or false.
This is surely interfering in religious matters with a witness,
and one might think that it was an arbitrary enough proceed-
ing to come from Liberals. It would thus seem that our
modern liberals and voluntaries have no objection that go-
vernment should endow the true religion, provided that false
religions might be equally endowed; that by thus placing all
religions on an equal footing, the world might be led to believe
that all were equally good, a view which must destroy all true
religious principles in the world. lam far from saying or
thinking that this is the object of all liberals and voluntaries ;
many amongst them would shudder at the idea of contribut-
ing to much a result. They are led to embrace the principle
without seeing its inevitable consequence. It has ever been
to me a matter of the greatest astonishment, how any Chris-
tian can reconcile to his principles and conscience his endea-
vours to instruct the rising generation in principles which,
he must confess, are perfectly opposed to the Word of God,
and destructive to the soul.
ALEXANDER M'CREERY.
Liverpool, August 20th, 1839.

SOCIALISM.

TO THOSE WHO ATTEND THE SOCIALIST LECTURES.

Yesterday evening I attended the Socialist Lecture at the
York Hotel, Tarleton-street, and having heard an attack
upon the principles of the Bible, and upon the character of
the l" priesthood" of the Church of England ; at the con-
clusion of the lectures, I stood forward to vindicate the au-
thority of the Bible as the word of God.
Mr. Rigby, the accredited agent of the Socialists, offered
to meet me to discuss Socialism. To this I consented, pro-
vided he would first discuss the following propositions :-
1. The Bible is a revelation from God.
2. To reject its authority is to bring eternal misery on the
individual who does so.
Mr. Rigby declined this offer, and after considerable dis-
cussion, Mr. Finch stood forward and agreed to meet me
upon those propositions, provided I would admit the autho-
rised version to be the Bible.
To this I consented, stating in writing, that I refer to
" the authorised version as an honest translation, faithfully
exhibiting the moral principles and dogmatic theology of the
Hebrew and Greek originals."
Mr. Finch objected to the wording of this statement, and
we agreed to have an interview this morning, for a final
arrangement, having previously pledged ourselves to a public
discussion of the propositions referred to, in our individual
character, and not as connected with any body.
This morning the Rev. F. Barker accompanied me to Mr.
Finch, who, in the presence of Mr. Rigby, declined meeting
me, except as the secretary of the Irish Established Church
Home Mission.
Having no authority from the Irish Home Mission to do
so, and the society being formed for a different object, I felt
it right to adhere to the arrangement to which Mr. Finch
had already publicly pledged himself, and again offered to
meet him in my individual capacity as a clergyman of the
Established Church, leaving to him the arrangement of the
meetings. This Mr. Finch declined.
I am still ready to meet any acknowledged leader of the
Socialists to discuss those propositions :-
1. The Bible is a revelation from God.
2. To reject its authority is to bring eternal misery on the

inclividiial'who does so.
I cannot allow myself to conclude this statement without
warning you of the danger in which your souls are, remind-
ing you of your responsibility to the God who has made you,
and who will be found true to his word.
" The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations
that forget God," and assuring you that through faith in the
merits and death of his Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord, you
can obtain pardon for all your sins, and eternal happiness
for your souls,
Earnestly praying that you may be delivered from the
error of your ways,—l am, your faithful servant,
JOSEPH BAYLEE.
105. Islington, Sept. 2, 1839.