Star.
London, England, 1820-06-28 00:00:00

the moment that a solemn accusation had been made, 'should be considered' as that of Ministers alone..
all subsequent delay in•bringing it to a positive de-' He had now, for about forty years, had the honour
termination was attended with the effect of untie.; of a seat in that House, during which he had fe-
cessarily agitating the public mind, and prejudicinglquently been a Member of Secret Committeei upon
the case of the Illustrious Personage' who was ac- . the subject of Finance, and of the Bank for instance,
cured. The Secret. Committee woala, in fact; in- and he was willing to confide in the conduct of the
terpose an additional delay, and when that Commit- Ministers who sat in that House, from what he had
tee shall have sat and melte its Report, the House witnessed upon such occasions ; for although these
would not have advanced-a single step. He would Ministers had often expressed very strong opinibm in
put it to the candour of the Noble Earl opposite, the House in opposition 'to his own, upon qmstions
and to the common sense of their Lordships, whether referred to these Committees, he had al way found
any advantage could be expected from the investi- them in such Committees ready to give every due
gations of a Secret Committee,' when his Majesty's consideration to any point brought forward. Lou k-
Ministers, who had had every opportunity of weighing ing, then, to experience, he calculated upon similar
the evidence, and considering all the circumstances coolness and impartiality of investigation upon the
of the case, were unable, after a years consideratfon, present occcasion ; he should vote in favour of the
to agree whether they should come forward as proposition for the •itting of the Committee in which
public accusers or not ? Some of them had described he was appointed, and he should certainly attend, be-
themselves as public accusers, and others had as dis- cause he was determined to do his duty.
tinctly declared they would never act in thatcapacity. Lords LANSDOWN and LA UDER DA LE explair ed.
As far as he was individually concerned, If by at- Lord 43ELHAVEN was anxious to state, that al-
tending that Committee he thought he could contri- though he should vote for the motion of the Noble
bute in the remotest degree either to close these pain- Lori, he was not against inquiry, which he only de-
ful proceedings, or to facilitate any measure which sired to see established on broad principles of British
might lead to an amicable arrangement, without Justice. In the present case, the accused Individual
that publicity which every man must be so anxious had reason to object to a secret inquiry. She knew
to avoid, there was no concession, no sacrifice, which that it was founded on the Report of a certain Secret
he would not cheerfully make to accomplish so de- Commission, which had been appointed to sit on the
subject, and which she was aware she had reason to
sirable an object. He confessed that he entertained
a faint hope that such would be the case, until cir- dread. She knew no more of the details of this Com-
cumstances occurred in the other House of Parlia-
mission Report, than ,she knew of the reason for ce-
ment which rendered such a result extremely impro- moving her name from the Liturgy—(hear.)
bible. If this proceeding unfortunately did go on, Lord BULKELEY, from a reverence for those
he should endeavour to discharge his individual duty pnnciplits of British jurisprudence which he had ever
as strictly and as conscientiously as he trusted evebeen tau it to hold sacred, felt it his duty to vote
ever.
one of their Lordships wculd do; and he prayed to for the motion. He could never, indeed, allow him•
Goo that the proceedings of that House might be self to assent to the violation of those principles,
whatever might be the rank of the party accused ;
conducted with that attention to former precedents,
and, therefore, he ihoUld be equally tenacious in this and that apprehension as to future consequences,
which might not only secure the strictest justice to inktance, whether the accused' were merely Mrs.
the Illustrious Individual accused, but might contri- Brunswick, or the Queen of England—(Hear, hear).
bate to raise their character individually and collet- The Noble Lord declared, that he differed with pain
tively in the estimation of the Publi-c. from those Noble Lords with whom -he generally
The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, in expla- agreed ; but he was urged by a strong sense of duty
nation, that in the year 1703, her Majesty Queen to say, as he could not hesitate to do were it even his
Anne, sent down a Message to that House, and to last word, that he deprecated the course which they
the House of Commons, stating, that certain Papers proposed to' pursue upon the present occasions—
had been communicated to her, relative to a conspi- (Hear, hear, hear).
•
racy in Scotland in favour of the Stuart Family, and Lord HOLLAND said, he had from the outset
that this House had examined the Papers with the disapproved of the course which Ministers had taker,
view of determining whether they should act upon from a conviction of the irregularity and ineons .
them in their legislative capacity. In the year472o, nience of their proceedings; and of that irregularity
a Bill of Pains and Penalties 'against the South Sea and inconvenience many of the Ministers themselves
Directors had originated in that House. It was ex- had since become fully sensible. Nay, two of the
tremely important to make a distinction between the Noble Lords who were appointed on the Secret Corn-
judicial and the legislative capacities of the House mittee, had this night stated their intention not to
of Lords ; and it was frequently a point of great dif- attend that Committee, from an impression of its ir-
ficulty to determine whether that House or the other regularity. The reasons stated by those Noble Lords
House of Parliament should proceed legislatively. were no doubt different, but their Resolution was
Lord DONOUGIIMORE said, it was with great quite the same: Those Noble Lords, whom he was
regret, that he differed from his Noble Friends upon proud to call his friends, had, throughout life, ren- •
this occasion, but he thought no reasonable man derecl such services to the cause of justice and 'liberty,
could object to the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers that no one was more ready to acknowledge those *rr
upori this occasion. They had not lost a moment in vices than himself, and especially with respect-to iris
bringing the subject before the consideration of Par- Noble and Learned Friend behind him (Lord Erskine).
liamtmt, and the House had lost no time in taking up He therefore regretted to differ from his Noble and -'
the Royal- charge, and appointing a Secret Commit- Lear.ned Friend upon this subject on a former oeca-
tee for its investigation. He thought it right to pay Sion.
tie Since that occasion, however, his -Noble and
a decent respect to the persons who had brought for- Learned Friend had this night observed, that the case
ward the accusation : he had voted foradjournment under consideration war materially altered, an'tl tkere-
fore his opinion had undergone a change. The 6*
after adjournment, and if a further adjournment had
been proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, he should had, indeed, been altered, as appeared from proceed-.
gs elsewhere. Ire would not •refer to the conduct- ,
ail' have voted for it. It had been said that his Ma- in
.jesty's Ministers were weak men ; that they had not of the other House of Parliament, to -which two
Noble Lords on the other side had observed it would'
sufficient confidence in themselves; and that they had
taken counsel of both Houses of Parliament. Now, in be irregular to advert, although each of those Noble ,
his opinion, this was not a fair ground of accusation, Lords were themselves betrayed into irregularity.
and he thought it would be much better for the coup- But he would refer to that. which was matter of
try if they would oftener take the advice df Parliament. public notoriety, namely, the negociation'which had
Not a single argument had been employed with a view taken plate between two of the King's Ministers and
of influencing the proceedi of this Hous, err - the legal advisers of the Queen. Their Lo'--'-' •

.4 pr, mgs Ise, except
what was fotinded upon the pmceedings and speeches
of the other House of Parliament. He deprecated
the idea of this House being bound by the proceed-
ings of any other Assembly, and he thought all the
difficulties and embarrassments with which the pre,
sent question was involved, were attributable to a
want of attention on the part of the Members of the
other House. He would put the case of a person,
who had once distinguished himself as an Advocate
for another, and who had shewn great dexterity in
her cause, being suddenly seized with some strange
wandering, some snacc,Juntible forgetfulness, and
being induced to make a glowing speech against the
individual, for whom he had once exerted all his elo-
quence.• The Right Honourable Gentleman to whom
he alluded had blended much of panegyric in that
speech ; he had talked of scenes,
" Quiequa fine. dakiaima Adis
" Re quorum pars magna tai."—(4 inaga).
Yet was it possible to conceive a course more directly
calculated to ruin, a cause which he had once advo-
cated? He could not consider the examinations of
the Secret Committee as a- trial, or even as the com-
mencement of a trial, but merely as a preliminary
proceeding for the purpose of determining whether
any trial houlds trite place at all.
Lad LAUDERDALE stated his regret at finding
himself that night in a situation Of 'differing with
many of his friends. He wished (and GOD forbid
any one should entertain a contrary sentiment!) that
no injustice should be done to the accused party in
this case; but he wished to see justice done to ano-
ther person--the person who had brought into that
House the case at present before the truant the
Head of the Government of this country, who con-
sidered himself aggrieved ix the manner which had
been hinted to them. He. certainly bad never con-
ceived', before the law- on this subject had been saa
ably propounded to them by the Noble Lord on the
Woolsack, that the Sovereign had no other resource,
in such a situation, than to apply to Parliament.
But if Parrsament were to Osm--&-upon the merits of
the case, all the kiewledvi he possessed of the s. •
stitutioa of this country taught.hins to believe that
blinistera.could not takewpouthemselTes the'respess!.
sibility of briaging in a Bill, withal's; prevtons blot-
motion being laid on the table of theHouss-t-(Hear,
Assirt)—Under another view of the ease, the Queen's
having sent a Petition tothat Houle, he shouldlike
0 know, giving all due credit for, the *esti; of the
Legal Advisers of her idajosty, how they could pas+
sibly advise her to ask• for tame to collect evideiteol
for the refutation-of obatgettil which, the prgiesed'i
',to know nothing !-liffeatr,- hitri.l)--"He 11.0wa
Litn-
derdale) saw no reason-why thit Secret Committee

Lordships
were aware of the protocols that were published, and
here he would ask quid est protocol, Cr was thereon
word in the English,language to answer the purpose
without importing this expression ? The subject of .
those protocols had, however, materially altered this
case, as well as certain Resolutions, which were
also matter of notoriety, and in the adoption of which
several of the Ministers themselves lad concurred.
From these negotiations and resolutions, then, it was
evident that this question bad been changed since its
former discussion ill that House, and principally tee
through the conduct of Ministers themselves. But
his Noble Friend (Lord Lauderdale) and he was sur-
prised to witness it, avowedly confined his confidence
to those Ministers who were Members of that Houses
Upon their conduct it seemed his Noble Friend was
disposed fully to rely in the proceedings meant to be
investigated by the Secret Committee, from which
the motion proposed to relieve the House. His No- v
ble Friend has, also become an advocate, in a great
degree, for the institution of Secret Committees, but
without, in his (Lord Holland's) opinion, stating the •
grounds of that advocacy very fairly. Anit this
system of Secret Committees, however, he (UM .
land) could not hesitate to enter his protest,, for al-;
though he had not long lived in.this world, it was
his mortifying fate to see the -liberties of his eonntry
more than once subverted by the system 'df &mt.
Committees, preceded by acctifsed Greta Lj
He had, indeed, in one instance, seed the Cobstitutiou
suspended through such a• proceeding, witliib dm:
space of 24thours, and when bfilfseven Members' of
that House wese present:to.deliberate upon sire thra.~
sae., It had been Mid; that Bills of Paliis and re.
nakies Might originate Kettat Roue ; liut this doe:
trine he utterly &died; challenging itiadvocptes to
produce any precedent iti, its Swett. He, indeed.
'was decidedly of opinion, *at such measures 'should
rather originate in the Other' House of Parliament,.
ai they had usually or liniformly done. It could
not: be pteteuded, thff 'slice 'the 'RevOlutiint aisle
case had. Occurred
There wa‘,•lM
some ‘anahigy,
ludianus to alludebe
rendon, who was
great conspiracy.
at learned man
the country for'sake
however, wes
theie any negociation
Lord Oa
did hot like the
ht deference to
to leave it, and

-red at all anai ogous to the prelent.—
doubt, a ciatitt4.6 record, which' as •
but viiritiai• 1r must seem uttn.wbut
lude-Lbeitteittit the case of ',fiord Cis-
was Wl' ie 'hwie been imptilatid io *
CT. (lion this stateMent or. klopicitt% -
nan was specianr requesW to raatie .
sake of public tranqitillity.. No inueo.
offered to the 'Noble 144, 4ot...was
cation or protocol respeowetm....,
)32, as it might naturaliy
Le proposition to abitt49oliiii.ecplottr.
o authority; however, be
4 within three :days after Nr-depa