Star.
London, England, 1810-12-28 00:00:00

It1;.1-ned Loll, who once filled the Woolsack. They were .placel in this predicament, that the pre.
,„i seeaki► the evereinn, said, 4‘ if I iorgett cedent of 1638 was not only not applicable, but in
" Inv thole. 'war& . • '
ewereigioLY,Gon forget me. . kserrinciples and views diametrically. dkisitite Iw-the,
:r- cordielln agreed, and he would add thew ..prtreent case. .In this view, -he could, nut atittiansny..
,:1,
I.'Ay GOP forget me if I forget my Constitationen" thiteg Short ofteis-ef -.that by voting for thell:44ress,
:,,5 6tliv, he obserredeby unanimity. that we should. the House' would .pledge themselves to a-vote I.'
nee tat respect which, amidst • the conflicting in effect, would be a total deeelletion of duty to the
•,,e empires; had contributed to secure this coun- King. •He deprecated any of that actimonioas de-
he DritieleConeereetio'n? which his family had ' bate which was dre'consecoaence Of thoptoceedings in
...:he razors of protecting, 'would thereby floura, 11738, and to which he was a witness... Irlw only safe
„nein a rnoeurnenn and stead aloft in the wreck and constitutional Mode of proceeding, was by Bill ;
,neleere.l world. - and, convinced that he should merely do his dui/ in
Lord M CLG RAV C.. contended, the only exception voting for the proposition of his Noble Friend, he gave
ee exercise of the royal authority mote certainly i it his hearty consent.
to
.Much ;he Noble Baron had alluded in 1688; His Royal Highness the DUKE of, YORK rose,
e • .
•ne contrast was striking between the two cases. • and spoke to the following effect r---4‘ However un-
'leen Cie exercise of the royal function was tom- i willing I feel to trouble your Lordships, Or to encroach
env a: an end. In the present ease there was no upon your time, I cannot but 'consider the present an
;env. In the former the Monarch had violated occasion upon which I owe to` myself to state the
:le date, and broken every engagement; therefore grounds which intlaence my conduct on the present
„eke an application of the two cases Was invidious, 4 melancholy circumstances felt, as I did, under those
ire w.
as is now, is fact, no interruption to the royal of the same painful nature which occurred twenty-two
el city. Inl6BB the Parliament was not in existence years ago, that it would be weak and unbecoming to
t;e tinte was reduced to a state of natiare ; the only shrink from the public assertion of principles which .1
re rite was that of this House of Parliament; the thenentertained and supported, endinthe maintenance
;in House, which derived its temporary existence . of which I have been confirmed by a subsequent cousi-
en the le-nee, being, from circumstances, at an end. - deration and experience ; nor am I, I can assure your
'e Prince of Orange at first refused to avail himself Lordships,' guided in the line which I am induced to
rate offer made to him,. until he had collected all ! take, by the fear of appearing inconsistent, for, if any
c ,advice which he could collect; and then he did ; consideration, carrying conviction to my mind of the
one. Even then, however, gi eat doubts had arisen i fallacy of former opinions, had produced, in the in-
en the subject; and in the breast ofnoae of the ! terval, a change in my sentiments, -I declare that I
eti.est lawyers of the day, my Lord Nottingham, 1. should consider it as mean and unmanly to hesitate a
,:,tad some me edits as to the legality of assenieling • moment in candidly admitting such to be the case—
eliment ; but those doubts, upon mature discussion' but I continue deeply impressed with the opinions I
id deliberation in the House, were over-ruled, and ' then held of the mistaken principle ; the dangerous
errs were written to the Prince of Orange ; but still tendency, and the eventful mischief of the measures
:mist contend that betore that step was adopted, • winch are now proposed ; and I am led by every
r, at hesitation arose in the convention. What was - feeling of duty and attachment, to my beloveJ
c.erse of proceeding on that occasion ? Why, ' Father, of •the solicitude for the preservation of the
vv came to the determination first, that the King had i Rights of the Crown,
_and of regard for the Con-
einnted the Throne ; and the next consideration ! stitution of these Realms, to deprecate the adope
~ ~ ,19.1 it ii as obvious to theairst constitutional law- i tion of a course which appears to me highly de-
ers ci the ;erne, that the next in succession should be . trimental to objects so justly dear to us all. No in.
ecei on the Throne. They therefore .deciared the : dividual can feel more than I do, my Lords, the cri.
'mime vacant, not only vacant, but that it lAd been : tical situation in which this country is placed, by a
ieticatol by the King, they also declared that the : calamity which none can more seriously deplore.
,nt in succession should be restored, and restored he ; Serious as the difficulties appeared upon the former
NS accratlingly. With this view of the proceedings,loccanion, they are equally increased upon the present,l
ed situaeon of the Throne in 1688, were the House by the pressure of the times, and by the arduous, yet
e-pared to say that the case applied Ow ?it was true ! proud struggle, which this country ie supporting, not
:..AI this tourney was religiously and indeed bigotedly i solely for its own honour and independence, but for !
,A of the precedent of 1638 ; but it would not be=; that of the only people on the Continent, which
-.me the House, ha the excess of that fondness, to 1 scorns to submit to tyranny aid oppression. Ours is '
eply that precedent mischievously. The Great Se-ell a choice of difficulties, my Lords, and imperious ne-
Ls not then in existence—there was no Sovereign by i cessity alone can warrant the steps we are about to
,horn that instrument could be used, or in whose .. take. With these principles, my Lords, I most con-
eine it could be created—the thing was impossible, snientiously and cheerfully gave my vote for the ad-
,;cause the King did not then exist. The case was ; journmert, in the hope that DIVINE PROVIDENCII
;DI SO now, his Majesty's political capacity was as en- might still avert the manifold evils of which I foresee
ire rose as at any time of his life. I'he cases, there- . the occurrence, by restoring our beloved Sovereign to
me, to which the Noble Baron had alluded, were not Ihis attached and afflicted people, before any decided
a all analogous, and those who supported the Ad-1 measures were obliged to be taken; and with the same
nets were for establishing the Regency without the 1 principles,my Lords, Ido not scruple to say,that in my
consent of the Royal Authority. . Such an establish- anxious wish to allow every possible time for his Mo-
nett might be necessary in an extreme case, but it 1 jesty's re-establishment, I should have readily voted
mild well become the House to consider whether ; for a further adjournment, if such had been proposed
the necessity was now for the first time created ? i by those who have been in the enjoyment ()Ibis Ma-
The only cases which could in the least bear were ' jesty's confidence, and to whom I give credit for a
One of Henry the Vlth, in which the substitution : disposition not to run too great a risk of incurring
n Protector was deemed necessary (the King then 1 any serious difficulty or embarrasenent to the State,
nag an infant) without the interposition of the by postponing to too distant a period, the consi-
wyal Authority. In a Commission issued at the' deration of measures, which must, under the conti.
rote of the death of Henry the Vth, the successor 1 nuance of these melancholy circumstances, become ul-
being then only nine months old, the Dukes of Bed- ; timately necessary. Unfortunately that period is now
era and Gloucester were named for the Regency, but t ierived, and anxious as I should be to see that neces-
the Duke of Bedford being out of the kingdom, theltrity adverted, eagerlyandjoyfully as, I repeat,l should
Protectorship devolved upon the Duke of Gloucester, I hail the day when it ceased to exist, yet after the evi-
the young King in. his Commission, having stated i dente of his Majesty's Physicians, which lies upon your
Lis own incapacity to govern. The next instance was Lordships' table, lam far from wishing to sanction by
in the Sed of the same King ; the state of the Royal ! my vote any impediment to the general and indispen-
mind was such, that it was then deemed expedient to i sible object. But, ray Lords, I object to the mode
isue a Commission to declare the reasons which in-! and the principle upon which it is proposed to carry
duce the incapacity Of the Ring, and the Duke of : that object into effect, as being, in my opinion, un.
York was appointed Protector of the Realm. it"such ; constitutional, derogatory to the dignity of the Crown,
was die course of proceedings then, which were times,' and subversive of those rights, which, if they are now
though distant, yet in sonic measure bore analogy, indirectly infringed in the person of the Kin 's sub-
it was seen that the Royal Authority was necessary' stitute, will nu longer ee in the same degree secure
for preceding ter the unfortunate situation into which! from direct attack. I deny the authority, the vali-
the King had einen. , With respect to the Houses of ; dity of the principle, by which two states of tile
Parliament they could not, as had been asserted, be I realm *can substitute a phantom fir the prescribed
denominated the two States of the Realm, they were,' reality, and can assume to 'themselves a power of
infect, the !-louses of Parliament, I egularly convened i establishing an act for which, by the principles and the
by the King's Authority. When Noble Lords there. acknowledged forms of the Constitution, the sane-
fore t ilked of the Speech of his Majt:ty being the '. non of the third, still existing, although actually der-
Speech of Ministers, they forget that having, by I ream, is particularly required ; and I therefore ad-
their assent, adopted it, it (If course was the speech , here to-that mode which is not liable to the same ob-
which it purported to be. To be sore, while tinder . jeation, I mean an Address, submitting th.l resolii-
discusszon it molt be so celled ; *out, when once f tions, if such arc considered to be necessary, which
adopted, it became by their vote to all intents ad; may have passed, and which being accepted by the
eneamses the King's Speech ; and, by else Record , Regent, will not lee less binding upon them, or might
if l'aritantent, was SO. What was the situation of ; -at any rate be made so by a subsequent Act, when
Cle country now ? It could not be denied that the the third branch of the Legislature had been re
calamity MIS great and grievous, and the diaicultie stored to actieity. Davin~ thus briefly seiteml to
reach arose nal, respect to the appointment of a Itec your Lordships my objections to the form of a
gent equelly so; but it would Lc as well to examine j Bill, I mreist add that 1 feel equal repugnance to any
the creet to which the proceedings- would go. In restrictions which it may be proposed to impose upon
the first placeit was prooses!, under the resolution, the exercise of the power conferred on the Regents
that time King had opened his Parliament. Was there , during the continuance of the present colarnity, for I
any great difficulty in that proposition ? That, then, do not reckon an arrangement for the care of his
being admitted, Parliament then being summoned by Majesty's person as a restriction on the Regent. I
the King convened by Prochtmation. What was i consider them not foss dangerous in principle than in
meant by being legally convened, was that it should : precedent ; and I conceive that these are not the times
be Opened by the king's summons—that was legallyl when the Executive Power, already subject ter diffi-
done in the present case. Would any man say to the' colties from its temporary nature and temporary I
contrary ? The precedent was complete as to the 1 trust in Gon it will prove), should be still further!
opening. of Parliament. The next question would i embarrassed and weakened by resnictinns, which are
lre, whether in providing for the deficiency in the Ear- I not less unbecoming titan I am nersueded they would '
eutive,. it should be presumed that the Sovereign ` prove unnecessary ; for I trust and believe, that the
(taking it for granted that the Parliament was regu. Prince of Wales, being intrusted with the full exer.
'arty opened) would put his neeative upon the peo- 1 else of that temporary authority, will feel that it is
ceedings of the other branches olthe Legislature, by 1 consistent with his own honour and future interest,
Bills, and refuse his assent, for it must be presumed, I as well as with every principle of duty and attach-
his judgment must be in the affirmative. As to the I ment to the King, to conduct himself in such a man.
eteetivn of restrictions, he was disposed to think, that net as to restore that authority to his Father, free I
his
Majesty would, in chi exercise of his royal autho- I from abuse, and unfettered by any Act which shalt(
ritY, be inclined to depart from the steps of his pre. [ have been inconsistent with the principles npeite which'
decennia, or from the precedent even in his own I it has been hitherto exercised, or embervissing to it.:
reign- It would be found in the preamble to the Re- on the resumption end further administration. - The
\
ge"Y Bill, that not a condition of the restrictions merits of the present question, tipnri which I have;
were ohjected to, and therefore lie could riot sup-f+ briefly, and, 1 fear, very imperfectly; delivered my
pose tinit now any objectien would • be started to i sentiments, have been, and u ill be, so abry and fully
that prtornbte, whnea had in a similar case been assert- discussed by others of your Lordships, who are more
t„z'd to before. I-Li could not see that in so doing the competent to the task-, that it now only remains for
reeise would be overruling elle Raxyal authority, les- ' me further to declare, which I do 'nest solemnly, that
.
tend% the cleetety of the Crowa, or dimming it* lustre. in the line which 1: have taken I sou wholly unin-
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_. - -"X MbJeCit)riseS..),Tll24d '
, to support by avrtratiers tlistlwycr, t•
crests of my beloyed.retetteqmi Soeereion, Jiir . o. t the -royal atittioritl Is of no use lathe' - '
and of his realms, which mu ;.ever cesalicler as onet. linlister hat pie nil t:s iitteks iithetat a IC,ag.K..-
and to prove that I never Ileac atifteta, nor etitg can What would was there for net sippnslnz that the
suffer, any personal c eisidereeine, or eny view of fu. very per snits use It as en argument to further their..
cure pr.:whet, to weaken those feelings of duty :rad *views, and say " We are &lie:crested judzees ; why&
attachment which are nataral to every stn, and which m.ty tied we carry on the Gevernmett for six or
are indelibly. impressed ore my mind by eve's, semi. eight years in the same way r The Noble 17.01 •
meat of the warmest gratittete and veneration fh. his t then stetted that the situation of the country. eCtr'.
Persh; as well as humble ejmiretien ofehose virtues disttehaig in respect to trade and commerce, which ...
which have marked his public conduct, not mere then state it had been In otight to by the Cabinet Minieeri
they have adorned every act of his private life."' who were as pretty a ounch of kingliugs as could he
Earl MOlRA.congratulated the House upon the niede. If the House lent themselves to such Itiese
speeches of the two Royal Dukes, which did honour , ters, they would be the first to suffer in the approach-
to their Royal Highnesses. He hailed with jell the ling disgrace of the Country, but they weuld not
pledge which the-two Illustrious Persons had given ! stiffer wi;hout eneiiling on themselves the execretivee
of their determination to support the great principhs of the :est of Europe,
of the Monarchy, and to preserve them untouched, as i ' The Earl of BUCKINCIHAMSH RE gave !US
the great right of the people, to be exercised by the cordial support to the Resolutions of the Noble E.tri,
Sovereign for the benefit of the country at large. convinced that the best and most constitutional mod ,t
Twenty-two years ago he had the honour of propel- for supplying the deficiency was by Bill. The di o
I ing an Address, similar to the one now prdtened by cussimie of 1788 on the subject, were, in his opinion,
his Noble Friend; and he had often occasion to a safe guide for any men to discharge his duty now,
review the motives which had urged him to submit because no subject had been mere properly decided.
that proposition, and with these motives be was per. Besides this, he lied another greet authority, vizo
fectly satisfied. The Noble Lord opposite had just . that of Mr. Pitt, who had carried a considerable ma.
read to the House a long dissertation of precedents, jority with him. The Noble Earl professed the
which were wholly inapplicable to the present greatest reepect for the Prince of \Vales ; but he
case, with a view to the best interests of the thought that the King's interests should be placed nut
-country. In what did the Noble Baron's speech of the reach or possibility of being affected'. The
consist ? Why, in upholding a doctrine which the measure of 1788 was approved of by the King, and
Constitution most ablioned in principle—a doctrine he should presume that they were so now.
which, by a strong bar, it had taken care to guard' The Duke of NO RI:PLK here rose to order, de.
against, viz the assumption of that power which in daring, that it was indecorous to use the name of hie
either House must. be taken as a very deep infringe- Majesty in the m !neer th it the Noble Earl had used it.
meet of the rights of the people. Was it not an in- : The Earl of BUCKINGHAMSHIRE proceeded
fringement upon the Constitution, if either or both and contended,that he was justified in using the King's
Houses of Parliament should presume to'exercise the name, because it was recorded on the Journals of the
King's sentiments ? Was the Noble Baron aware of House, anti he had a right to refer to those Journals.
the extent to which that assumption might go ? Did Under the situation hi which Ministers were placed,
he not see that there was no limitation to that prin. they could not act otherwise. Supposing that it would
ciple, and that in effect it might go to the total ex- have been . necessary to send reinforcemeets to Pore
tinction of the best parts of the Monarchy—that if tugal, would any Minister have hesitated to send
such excuses were to be tolerated, the Sovereign , them ? B. the Noble Lord (Prenville) had been in
would thereby become in the hands of certain per- - power, would not.he have acted se ?—be thought he
sons an obedient instrument, if they could secure to • would, et all hazards, have conceivad it his duty to
themselves a majority in Parliament ? The State send the necessary reinforcements ; at least he (the
would then be an Oligarchy, and there would be no-' Noble Lord) would have sent them. The Noble Earl
thing to protect the people from the malversations of contended, that Ministers having acted from the esi-
the Ministry. The Noble Baron in his speech had Fency of the public service, were entitled, not only to
not touched upon the most material point to which indemnity, but applause. He Was unconnected with
his Noble Friend's address pointed, viz. the right of them, and in supporting them chi merely en act of
Parliament to decide upon questions.of this nature. duty to them and his country.
The adjudication el Parliament by address was se- i The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said,thet hecould'
cured by it. There was a great difference between truly state, that in the observations which he was -
the two modes proposed, fur by the address, delay about to submit to their Lord hips, he was acteatedier
would be prevented. The Noble Benin had stated solely by the interests of the King, because he' weir "n
that the exercise of those powers which was vested in actuated solely by the interests of the Crown. He
the Sovereign for the benefit of the people ought not hoped he should never hear that the inter--es of the'
to be in the Regent. It was easy to see what species reigning King, and the interests of the Ceo ho. wette-hs
of Government the Ministers wished to create. What capable of being separated. Did the Noble Eirt
was the fact ? the Prince of Wales had never shewn think that it was immaterial to the interests of the
any desire to take the Regency on himself ;he had not King by whom his armies were sent abroad or rt.
made any communication upon the subject—had not called, by whom his treaties were infringed or bro.
in any way taken part in the business. The House well ken ? Did he conceive that it was immaterial to the
knew that the exigency of the case alone made them: interests of the King, that the hereditary succession
recur to him. He would not suppose for one moment •to the royal power should be interrupted by seven de'
that there waaany man so weak or so wicked as to wish . eight persons, deriving no authority trent Tarliement ! •
to bring forward any otherpersonto fill eheCrown : that The Noble Earl stated, that it would be criminal ,
he could not suppose. It was therefore a situation of po- in the individuals who for two months hid usurped •
litical necessity, arising from a combination of (inform- the monarchy of the country, should any erre-genet"
nate circumstances in which the country was placed, wise, to neglect, at their own responsibility, to use the
embarrassing in the extreme. In this situation the two power tithe Crows ? Did the Noble Earl forget that
Houses come forward, and they call upon the Heir , those very persons had distinctly stated, that the power
in succession to the Throne to take upon himself ,of using the Royal Authority had devolved on the
the Executive office, to extricate the nation from the States of the Realm ? Yet it seemed that these very
dilemma in which it stands through the 111 conduct ' perions had deceived the States of the Realm, and
of the Government. With this desire was coupled the had withdrawn from them the immediate exercise of
desire of restriction, limiting the Prince in his official that authority, by concealing circumstances with an •
capacity (supposing he should consent to comply with ' evident intention cf protracting the existence of their
,the wishes of the nation), and holding him foeth to . own and the suspension of Monarchical power.—
that nation as a man to be stopected—not fit to be , There was another very important question which
trusted.—Was this the sort of conduct which the ' arose out of that before their Lnrdshipe, and that
House ought to adopt ? Was it just to deprive the was with respect to the custody of his Majesty's per-
Prince of the grace of abstaining from the exercise M.' son. Could any one say, that during the continnauce
those powers which, as the Monarch, lie would be en. of the delays that ()mitred, there had been a legal
titlecito? Recollecting too, that those powers would be . andconstitutionel provision for the care of the per-
open for discussion at any future pet iod,was it just that sons 'e in whom all were so deeply interested ? The
the individual, whom the country wished to be called day he ousted would come when a retrospect :nigh:
to the Geveremento should be held forth as unfit to be deliberately taken of nil the late teansactions,
be entrusted ? Could any man of honest principles * and an inquii y made into the truth of a report preva-
say that he was unworthy ? If not, why shackle lent a few days ago, that .those who. had assumel
him ? Oa former occasions the House seemed se- the tare of his Majesty had, by a wanton exercise
thfied that no material disadvantage had occurred of their authority, endangered the life of the Royal
through delay ; it was not, however, for li:in to Personage himself. He mentioned this as a rurndar
subset the to that doctrine. Did not the I Louse which he should be glad to hear contradicted. Witlk4
well know from every day's experience, that delay respect to the proceeding about to be instituted, ir-
struck at the root of trade "?
How many traders and regular as it must necessarily be, their Lerdships ought
merchants were affected by the present state of un- to be guided by two considerations ; first, that in that
certainty, not being able to speculate with safety ? irregularity the least possibieviolence should be oppos-
-Ministers might say, " Why we stand in place of ed to the analogies of the Constitution ; and secondly,
the Sovereign." It was true that they assumed the that it should be directed so as to prove efficient in the
appearance of sterling metal, but the currency would supply of the existing inefficiency. On a full considera-
not pass long. There was no inconveniency of such tion of these principles was grounded his determination
magnitude as for the Chief Magistrate to be incapa- to vote for hit Noble Friend's amendment. As to
ble of exercising that authority s, hich ought to be the e.t.a point, namely, the analogy, he would not
vested in him. It had been said by the Noble Baron , repeathhe precedents so ably adduced by his Noble
that the Government was placed under great dif- Friend, but would content himself with referring to
ficulties. He (Lord Moira) would not admit it to all which their Lordships had heard and read for the
be so, there was a ' time when they might have ex- truth of his assertion, that there was no case before the
isted, but the moment the exigency was pronoun- year 1788, in which the two Houses of Parliament
cod then the difficulty ceased, for the moment the had usurped the use of the Great Seal, without the
Report of the Physicians was laid before the intervention of the third party, who was alone entitled
Houle, that moment it ceased It could not be to the controul of it. The improper use of the Gieat
pleaded in exeuse for them that they were in di:hcul. Sealhad been avoided, even in times when the great.
ty ; the moment the King's incapacity was stated, est temptation existed to interfere with it. In the
they were free, and every subsequent act of their's ' reigns of Edward 11. of Richard 11. of Henry V.
was illegal—God forbid !he should say criminal.— : and of Henry Vl.—times of the greatest di,,order and
It had been said on a former occasion by a Noble and confusion—in the midst of all the attacks made on
Learned Lott', "that the King never dies." In a the Crown at those periods, there remained so strong
valid and important sense that was true, because.the : an idea, that the two Houses of Parliament had no
Monarchical system was of such a vital nature; that it controul over the Great Seal, as to shew that it was
must not pause for a moment. The heart of the Con. , immemorially established that the Great Seal was the
stitution, if be. might so term it, though ceasing to attribute of Royalty, and that the authority over it
: beat for a minute, was. by the Constitaion's natural I was peculiar to the Crown, and could not be assumed.
- powers. immediately resuscitated. On that principle by either House of Parliament. Let their Lordships4o
t lie must vote for ille Address, because it secured an consider a part of the practice of the Crown itself...-.
i able judication of the. ease by Parliament, it Saves The Crown during the recess of Parliament, sad
all that unnecessary and, impertinent distress to the : sometimes in the case of any urgent necessity, over.
individual which the ()thee mode would provide, and stepped the limits of its power. But did it ever at.
most esii.entisilly avoids that habit of giving to any I tempt to give to such an art the authority haw Act
person. (ii sack there were) the opportunity of cans .of Parliamen ? On the. contrary, when Parliarritet
vaesing• the Pritelic4iiitit of - gpiNves *ll.4ut the assqmbled, •JUI Crown applied ter the justitisist4a si
.
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