The Liverpool Standard and General Commercial Advertiser.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England, 1839-11-01 00:00:00

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL,STANDARD,

SIR,—In an article from " A Correspondent," in your
paper of to-day, I find the following statement respecting
those who oppose establishments :
" They assert that it is tyranny over conscience. to make
people pay any thing in support of the church,' front whose
doctrines and ritual they dissent; and in the same breath
they contend that the state ought to support all the denomi-
nations of religion in the state alike:"
Now, sir, as I always understood. that one of the principles
laid down by those who oppore establishments is this, " that
government, as such, has nothine. to do with supporting
any form of religion," I trust that, for the Sake of truth,
you will publish this letter, that your correspondent may
have an opportunity of proving, from the writingS cf any
dissenter, the correctness of his assertion, •
if your correspondent can clearly show,,that such princi-
ples are held and maintained by dissenters, I will promise to
cease to be what I now subscribe myself
Liverpool, Oct. 29, 1839. • A DILS. .

PREDESTINATION, A DOCTRINE OF THE
CHURCH OF ENGL/kIND.

TO THE EDITOR OF THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

Sin,—Thanks arc justly due to your ace-respondent, " A
member of St. Jude's," for having,s9 boldly set forth a
defence of the truth; may he not cease manfelly_to,expose
the ignorance of " Ridley," of one who assinnes the name
without showing any of the spiritual discernment of-Ridley,
the protestant Reformer. I fancy that Ridley and his asso-
ciates are to wise, even in their generation, tochallealge a
discussion between the coinparadve merits of theeEvang-elical
Clergy, and their brethren of the High Church section. No
one would gainsay the assertion of Ritileyetliat a crowded
congregation is not a criterion whereby to. judge of the faith-
fulness of a preacher. yet I think, there are • few hgt will
consider it a proof .of earnestness rpreaohnryjunl of
simplicity in the preaching ; and, vice verqd,*.e.emay, retort,
that carelessness of the preacher, and abstruseness -in his
compositions or compilations will ie evidenced by an all-but
deserted 'church. .The sneer. of Ridley, at the
your correspondent's letter) being believed to emanate front
Dublin, is apparently the effect of envy ; arid no one can know
better than Ridley himself, that, in a church not many hundred
yards fromiKent.:square, there were many empty pewsprevions
to there being within its walls any emanation from Dublin."
In reference to the charge brought 'against your correspond-
ent, " A member of St. Jude's," that he, without knowing
the use of his weapons, has entered upon the combat, we
would ask, has Ridley himself shewn the least symptom of
his being qualified to give an opinion upon such a subject?
It certainly. seems that his High Church brethren consider him
as qualified, or otherwise he would have been deemed worthy
of a helping hand in the onslaught .of he Evangelicals. I
wish " Ridley," in his disquisition respecting Acts xiii. 48,
bad pointed out what alteration would take place in the sense
of the passage, if we read, as he recommends,--" disposed of,
or marshalled," instead of " ordained." Surely we are not to
consider men as " disposing or marshalling" themselves; if
so, in opposition to the whole tenor of Scripture, the thoughts
of man's heart are not evil continually, and with Divine.as-
sistance can the natural enmity be changed into a submission
to the will of God : and, contrary to Art. 10 of our own church,
can man "prepare himself by his own natural strength end
good works, to faith, and calling upon God." I advise Rid-
ley to read the church catechism front the beginning to the and,
and lie will then discover that before the mere.sprinkling of
water can constitute real baptism, there are ..rainired two
things—viz., repentance and faith,. of those. to, -be .baptized._
I enter not upon the discussion of the -queSticn, whether re-,
pentance and faith must precede; or ntavbe'posteeior ti2c
sprinkling with water? It certainly chiek 'appear that ti.e
compilers of our church catechism considered repentance and
faith to be necessary for." the Members of Christ and children
of God.
We are told by Ridley, in his last lucubration, that he 117,a
other and better game in View," he, however, leaves 'to our
own imagination what that game may "be. I,4'ft-01'We-be
what it May, blackor white, the pointless weapons of aan
adversary may perhaps annoy, but they cannot inju,re..f.
So long as the Homilies and Liturgy of our ii4urch .ccn-
tinue 'to embody the doctrin ii view; of the Protestant re-
formers of our relfrion, so long will the attempt be frnitless
to prove that our erotestantforefathers werenot assured that
God is not only the author, but also the finisher of each in-
dividual's salvation. (See Collects for Easter, 4th and stii
Sunday after Easter, 3d and 13th Sunday after Trinity.)
refrain from multiplying testimonies, to drawn from the
evangelical services of our church. f Ridley would .e.etiously
become a student of the Scriptures, he I. mistake not,
discover that the atonement of Christ is there set forth as
sufficient for the sins of the whole world, but that. its saving
power " shall," according to the Saviour's own words, " be,
given to them for whom it is prepared- bf.• his Father ;" .and
I would refer to 1 .Cor. 5) for the mutilating testimony-of
-St. Paul. . , - •
Althonith Ridetit-tttnat
evh'See"'er ^"47-'4"'"'"Stt+l.o,...-
the.gaunt..et, and roug tento the.contest the /ay supporters
of our church, I hope-that "A MemberOf St; :hide's" will
follow up the subject, and leave not a-leg for_poorßidley to
stand upon. Your's truly, :-• •
October 30th, 1839: ..A PROTESTANT.

TO THE EDITOR or THE LIVERPOOL STANDARD.

SSin,—lt must be perceivable, I think,, ,every one who
has read " Ridley's" last letter, WiliCh
. in the
Liverpool rail of Tuesday last, that lie clitzot::427,fiCeC the
arguments which I advanced in my forinier "an the.
subject of predestination.. He affects to .trout theni with
contempt as the production of `: " impu
dence :" but every right-minded personwillsee,,throu!i;h the
matter, and only regard it as: 'the Ica ap'Ologyef a Geaten.
controversialist.
It is quite evident that be would have controv'erted, them
if he could, for he gavea lame reply to my firstletterl.;bat
now that I have entered at
.some lepgtb. into the Aujtja,ct, and,
proved that his views are at variance with scriptare, end, the
formularies of the Church of Erit.,,Tzliid, he (Iraws' oueOf the
controversy, because, forsooth, it is 'v. AAftfit",tniffPfcii the
columns of a newspaper. But he did :nuttifitilit:f:thetnews-
paper an unfit medium through,vthich..to Attack a Faithful
clergyman, because,he felt it to be liis.4tylip Ektiourio..,- the
Oxford Tracts, or an unfit medium throtrovlll6ll,-,to sneer
at God's truth as " vulgar Cali_i~ ism Tut -Weil a yeor
vulgar Calvinist came forward to defe4t)litruth; ficted-
vanced arguments which Mr. Ridley fothiff 'he could not an-
swer, he found it very convenient to get Out of it' by. saying
" I must decline again noticing this silly inemberof
Jude's Church, on the subject of Cnlviiiisin, notwith-
standing his matured judo:lent, I do not conceive to be
fitted for the columns of a newspaper." I feel almost
tempted to " rebuke ides sharply ;" but, sir, 1. f:n.bear,
being reminded of the advice given by St. Valli, to his son
Timothy, " Be gentle unto all men, in meelcss, instruct-
ing those that oppose themselves; if God, perailventzerc, mill
give them repentance to the acknowledging of the ttuth."—
Yours, &c. •
A MEMBER OF ST. JUDE'S CHURCH.
Oct. 31st. 1839.