Star.
London, England, 1817-04-29 00:00:00

and it certainly opened a special case of itself. He agreed
alth him, that it was extremely desirable to relieve the subject
mom the rape se of renewing his commission, under the event
contemplated by thr Bill, and on tb-s ground he did not feel any
objection to .is principles in the ei m•ral !tense. He therefore
was not ptep.rt•l o gilt. the semn•l reading arty objection, but
only widit Or Rittt• Honourable Gentleman to allow about
ten day: to eldp•e between the wmild and third reading, that
the Howl mist., br enabled to tiok loco the general principles
of the bill. .
Mr. PON-it totiors‘ril bins•-!f happy to and that the
Bill had mi.t the corctirri,nre of the ble Lord. He had not
contemplated any thing that might make the least change In the,
Const:ttnito. ; and hr had lin desi.-e to do any thing but what
/Eight Lae, 11. e Apt mailman tit the House.
The then read a secuod time, and, on the 'nog/Ilion
of Mr. i ussout.r, was oral:reit to be constituted on Thursday
senniish:.
Mr. LAM IiTON postponed Ids Motion on the Lisbon Mis-
sion, in con...venal of the request of a Noble Lord, till Tues.
day, the 6 t. or May.
Lord PAI.M E.W.TON presented a Petition on the subject 61
Tithes, ipso, the Master anti Scholars of the University of Cam-
bridge. winch was recd and ordered to lir on the Tabk.
A number cot Petitions aga•tist Private Pills were presented by
Sir JAMS SHAW, Me-sr, FINLAY. Coax, and o:hrr Gentle.
wen. One ut ti. m from the Market Gardeners of the Parish
of l4eworih. stared the grievous oppression undtr which they
laboured beim the present system of 1 ithe Laws.
Mr. BLAKE said. he ,040 merely to ask the Rit;ht Honour.
able Gentleman (the Chancellor of the. Exchequer) whether it
was his Intention to extend the provisions of his plan tor the re-
lief of t 1..• labouring poor to Ireland?
Ihe CHANCEI.LOR of the EXCHEQUER had no hesita-
tion in .ayaig, that it was his intention to extend his plan equally
to all parts at the United Empire.
MAUD.: UNDIR WRITS oF SHRUM

Sir S. ROMILLY, on rising to present a Petition
that c' mplained of the difficulties and losses inciden-
tal to the recovery of small debts, thought it neces.
sary to state a circumstance which w.it worthy of the
particular consideration of the House. The enor-
mous amount of expenses to which a creditor might
be put in trying to recover debts or no very large
amount, was hardly to Le brlieved ; for when the
I)efe•ndant got hold of. a nefarious Practitioner, the
creditor might be ruined. fie would state a fact
which had come to his knowledge, in illustration of
the circumstance. It appeared chat a franked letter
had been sent, addressed generally to the prisoners
in the Gaol of Liverpool, but being overweight, they
had refused to receive it, and it was sent back. The
contents of this letter had been made known to him,
and they turned out to be as follows person, who
called himself an Agent to the Insolvent Debtors'
Court, had sent a circular to the prisoners in the dif-
ferent ci.usitry prisons for debt, offering to sue out
writs of Habeas Corpus for them, and remove them
to the Kaug's Bench. Amongst other advice, with
the reading of which he should not trouble the House,
this pap..r ti;ld them, that when their creditors pen"-
ceeded to get judgment against them. they should
ortler their Attorney to search the FiAal Judgment
Office, and have with him the Writ of , Error ; this
would put the plaintiff to a great expense; but if
they wished to harass him still farther, they should'
make the writ returnable in Parliament, which would
cost the .plaintiff one hundred pounds, and the de-
fendant only • ne-gisineff. It went on to inform him
how he might. fur £24.-15‘ put the creditor to an
expense of £545. The Learned Gentleman pro-
ceeded to descant on the evil of Writs of Error. and
adverted to certain abuses which had been detected
sad remedied in Appeal Cases, suggesting that the
same method of having two Bari isters to certify, be-
fore the• Writ was issued, would be the means of put.
Ong an end to the evil so justly complained ot.
Mr LYTTLETON said he had a Paper given
to him towards the close of the last Session, precisely
similar to that described by the Honourable Gvnile.
man. but bid.no opportunity of doing any thing on
the subject. He heartily wished the House would
take up such a
.gr,iss and scandalous abuse of the
wise intentions of the law. •
The Petition. which-was from certain persons. in.
habitants of the County of York, stewing the losses
and.injuriee they sustained in trying to recover small
debts. and praying Oft:lnterference of the House, was
then presented, mid, end ordered in lie on the table.

CA 'MOM PiTITIONS.
Sir H. PARNELL said he rose to present a Peti-
tion from the Roman Catholics of Ireland. which,
*disked the favourable attention of the House to'
their peculiar condition under the penal laws. It
stated that they bad taken every 9ath of fidelity and
allegiance, and they referred to thodifeeent Acts of
the LegislSeureol Ireland for repeated proofs of their
loysisy, aoterithstandmg which they will remained
soder the effect of the penalties; bT reason of their
conscientious adherence to the religion of their lore.
fathers. They had no sinister object to obtain. Their
only object was avowed, and they prayed the House
to take it haw their favourable consideration. There
was another topic which, frcm its great importance,
he felt it necessary to touch upon. The claim wblch
had been set up about securities had been the repeated
cause of the failure, of their object, as founded on
the subject of the election of the Irish Bishops. It
sunlit be remembered that the Catholic Bishops had
is LIXIS. 'declared it inexpediesit to make any altera-
tion in ' this
,subject, and they were followed in this
opinion by the laity. Bus now so great a change,
hadtaken places that the Irish Buboes no longer
agreed ',this resolution, but had made every arrange-
meat so meet all objections. They had stated that
they were anxiously civilises to conciliate all opinions,
and obviate every objection that esiatcl be shade to
their pretensions. He trusted the sentiments of tine
peskiest would be considered as she declaration on the
purstif the,Catbolics of Ireland. It was couched in
moderate and proper language. He would stale in
what die plan of doniestic nutlimation consisted. The
Catholic Prelates recommended oh a vacancy but
the Bishops were not obliged to agree to the nomina-
tion. It had been proposed to procure from: the
Pope a Concordat, to makcou appointment bog what
should be presented to him. They offered to bind
themselves by oath, that none 'but a natural hero
siabj.ct of thir realm should be chosen for a Bishop,
and that all should swear Douai make any attempt to
overturn the civil'or ecclesiastical constitution, or to
disturb 'properifas settled by4fie. An eminent per.
sonage, most in the confidence of the Pope bad de-
clared. that he would nut oppose chieldia.• It smis
also proposed to secure that no person should &trail
the dice of electors, who were not oattatt bdra suk:
ism. kir th 0914 not eater into any argusfelits oq
this launching matter at pietist, but ilfietiaped. the
Rome would take into theit serious consideration,
and come prepared-to give. o Or4ision on the motion
about to locate& by his Right Nottourable Friend.
lie bag *very ream to Wier% that it would be

• „ .

•

found r.ct objection would be made by the Catholics.
which Parliament would think proper to oppose.
General MATTHEW declared he bad never of-
fered himself with more pleasure to the House then
on the present occasion. The system of moderatine
and conciliation displayed by the Catholics, would,
he trusted, be now likely to become the order of the
day. He was happy to state that the Catholics of
Ireland were actitated by a full determination to lay
aside all party spirit, and that their principle should
he only that of conciliation and accommodation, as
ak as the Catholic religion would allow them to go.
He aincerely hoped that no agents of faction would
be found in the House to bring on attain a teligious
c,ntreversy, and revive the old stories about the bloody
times of Henry and bloody Mary, and that the House
would no longer waste their time in listening to tedi-
ous and useless speeches—(Loeshirr).— Six millions
of degraded Catholics were now looking tip to then.
fur liberty, and the country expected that they would
make themselves masters of the subject before they
came to decide on what was. demanded .by circum•
stances. The titular Archbishops of Dublin and
Cashel, Dr. Murray and Dr. Everett, had been de-
puted to this country, fully qualified to give every in-
brm.-tion. He was authorized to state, by those Bi-
shop., that they were ready to give every security,
as tar as domestic nomination went, and this ought
to satisfy the most fastidious. The Honourable Ge-
neral, otter ridiculing as a bugbear the apprehension
ut any interference on the part of the Pope, cares-
sed his hope of witnessing the emancipation of his
fellow-countrymen.
Mr. WEBBER declared that he did not partake
of any of that intolerance alluded to by the Honour-
able General. Nobody was more anxious than him-
self that every civil right should be atended to the
Citho!tcs. He could bear eestimony to the great me-
rits fet very many ind.vidu .Is of that body, with
whom he was acquainted. But his objection was nut
in any degree fuemded on private character; he
found it his painful duty to object to the proposition
that would be made, from a complete conviction,
arising Iron: long and deep reflection on the system
itself. He did not think it would ever be his fate to
hear the question of securities for the Constitution
agitated in that House. Any such question should
never be entertained in that House. It was his op.-
nion that this question could not have any o.her ef-
fect than that of creating an incipient. revolution, and
that by conceding the prayer 01 the petitions, -um
House would, be doing nothing short of subverting
the Protestant settlements in Ireland.

Mr. BLAKE observed that lie did pat rise to de-
fend the conduct or priociples of his constituents,
whose names are subscribed to the petition now pre-
sented by the Hon. Baronet, but he rose to defeat! the
Character and consistency or earlianient. The Howe
had been told by the Hon. and Learned M. other
(Mr. Webber) that by conceding the prayer of ti e
petitions, or rather by consenting to Catholic main.
pinion. they would be doing an act that would amount
to a subversion of the British Constitution ;—yet the
House would recollect that Parliament had already
acceded to the justice and policy of that measure ;
and the only question now to be decided was as to
the nature and- extent of those securities, which it
would be prudent to annex as a condition to the
gVaut. He defended those who objected to the
Vito on conscientious principles ; but he implored
the Houle to legislate as became them, and thereby
put an end to the discussion of a qriesth n, which was
used as a peg upon which to hang tidiarnitiat.ey and
irritating speeches. The petition was then brought up
and read. On the question that it be laid on the table,
Sir JOHN NICHOL said, he rose to enter his
protest against two positions assumed by the Hon.'
Gentlemen on his, and the othei side, as to the na-,
cure of the securities. He apprehended the question
could sot be reduced to this. When the proper time
arrived, that the concessions could be safely spade, he
should be as sincerely disposed and as much rejoiced
as any man to agree to them. But lie must protest
against whatever arguments or assertions might tend
to lull suspicion, and inculcate the opinion that the
friends of the Catholics would now succeed in car-
rying this question. His opinion was quite the re-
verse. The circumstances of Europe siuce the last
Session were not such as to place this question on a
more favourable footing than it had stood before.
The petition was then.ordered to lie on the table.
Mr. W. SMITH said, ire rose to present a peti-
don on the same subject, from certain persons, Ito.
man Catholics, in the Counties of Warwick and Staf-
ford. It prayed that domestic nomination might be
held as sufficient security for the loyalty and attach-
ment of the Roman Catholics. He should abstain
from any argument en the subject at present.
Tile petition was brought up, read, and ordered to
be on the table.

PARLIAMENTARY REFORM.
Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from a
numerous body of inhabitants of Dunfermline, is
Scotland, praying fora Reform ia Parliament. Alter
it had been read,

Lord COCHRANE praised the character of the
petitioners as a body of persons exemplary in the ful-
filment of every mural duty. They were manufac-
turers, and he attributed their decay and fail entirely
to the heavy taxation under which they ralseured.—,
As lung as pensions and places continued to be the
reward of the servile and interested, so long would
this distress continue. He held the plea of the,
Chancellor of the Exchequer to be totally inadequate
to afford relief to the people. .Unless the House were
purged, ill reindict would be insufficient, whether
the Chancellor of the Exchequer applied two mil-
' lions -or fifty millions to relieve the people. • Such
blettli must ultimately come out of the pockets of the
'people themselves. such applications were concern's-
Lib c and itiqe ; and 00419 agriculture and cons-
[ mime were revived; and those burdens taken off that
were bringing us down, we•should soon be involved
in indiscriminate destruction. The dreadfully uni-
lOrtn state of the. country, could only be effectually
relieved by a reductios•of the interest of the national
debt. AU other attempts were unworthy of conside-
'ration, and Ministers would sad, within tbse two
i,Nelierhaps before the House met.again, that
.::
f e'vlst. t mist take place. Nothing could be done
eer
tpjealmve the poor, but by a reduction of sues. and
attlitaiy establishments. The poor man-paid-more
for the salt and malt taxes than the superior classes
twice over. l'ini loan would, to no degree, relieve
Such industrious classie as the petitioners.
Mr. GEENFELL dtptecosoti susluassestictos Its

he had now': eard for the tbird time in that lions,
which were neither more ror less than that Parlia-
ment ought to be guilty of a breach of honour and
public faith (Hear, hear.) Such a prop( 'Won
coming from the Noble Lord was likely to make a
serious impression on the country.
Lord COCHRANE replied, that he intended to
bring forward a proposition on this siNect, and then
would be the proper time to say v.hether such a pro.
position might not be adopted without any unjust
sacrifice.

Lord MILTON was very Touch afraid the Noble
Lord was not the only person who entertained opi-
nions of this kind, which could not he too s..verely
censored, and ought not to he listened ro, unless we
had attired at a much greater period of distress and
calamity than had yet assailed us. The fundholder
would have much indeed to comp! i t of, if any pro-
position of this kind were serionsly entertained.
Mr. W. SMITH thought this was a most iinpro.
per mode of arguing such a question. He wished to
see it taken up on its own grounds, and whenever
this should happen, he should have no hesitation in
delivering the opinion he entertained of it.
The petition was then ordered to lie on the table.

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