Star.
London, England, 1818-03-10 00:00:00

titled to very little weight indeed, when I: was Coe: he lead been the i personalty elbdat to. As to the
sidered how that Committee had been torqued. With Noble Loris observation about his hiding-piece, said
regard to Oliver, and his connexion with the Derby his not being in his seat, they were so trifling sad so
rioters, he had heard nothing which could fairly ins- t much beside the question, that he ought to apoio-
peach the dying declaration of Brandretle that Oli-Igize to the House for making any reply to thenaese
ver had ensnared him to his ruin—,(hear, hear.)— But as the Noble Lord had implied that he was Oleg
Government, in the public opinion, was identified of a dereliction of his duty, or of the princip o
with all that their infamous agents had accomplished which he professed (and he hoped sincerely) to aay
or attempted ; and this was rather fortunate than he must state, that the ground on which he abstained
otherwise, for it would tend to preserve the moral from speaking in general, was neither more nor kite
feeling of the people by concentrating the public in- but, he assured the House, solely this—that be new
dignation against the profligate and wicked designs, found any thing said on that side of the House hid
which had diegasted all ranks of society—(hear.) any effect but that of being superfluous.
Mr. BROUGHAM said, surely Ministers would The SPEAKER then put the question from the
not so far lay aside all regard to appearances as to, Chair, " That the Bill be read a second time to-mor-
force on the second reading of this important Bill to- row," when
morrow. There were three or four notices which Sir SAMUEL ROMILLY expressed his opinion,
would have precedence of it, on each of which con- that an amendment should put it to-morrow week."
siderable discussion might be anticipated. Did his He was astonished at the reasons given by the Noble
Honourable and Learned Fliend mean by this to say Lord for a second reading to-morrow ; there had, in
at once to the House and the country, that he consi- fact been no discussion on the Bill at all. He did not
desed all argument superfluous and unnecessary— say that his Learned Friend (the Attorney-Generale
that the question was to be carried alone by numbers had advanced no grounds in support of the Bill; be
—(Loud cheering from the Ministerial benches)? He had indeed spoken at great length ; but when those
implored the House, acquainted as they must be with grounds had been answered, and answered satisfacT
the fact, that in ten days they were to be dissolved, torily, it was usual to expect some reply. Nothing
and were to be sent to the country to their Consti- like such a course had taken place that night ; Gess-
tuents—(hear, hear, hear)—to consider the impression tlemen had risen one after the other on that side of
which their conduct could not fail to produce. The the House, but none on the other side. The Noble
experience, he thought, might have been spared, that Lord said, that Ministers did not speak because lee
they rested their cause on numbers alone—that rely- Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham) had not epokeid
*on the eloquence of votes, they deemed all other Bat had nobody else spoken? Had not the Flondige
eloquence superflutgee—that the persons who had able Member for Durham,, the Honourable Meath*
been deprived of their liberty under the Suspension for the University of Cambridge, and the Henelfr;
of the Habeas Corpus Act, were to be deprived of able Member for Hertford spoken ? Was it aseoes
all legal redress, because such was the will and sary for Ministers on all occasions to wait till tia
pleasure of his Majesty's Ministers, who did not think Learned Friend rose from his hiding-place before they,
it even necessary to condescend to give any reasons would condescend to make any reply to what was
in justification of such a measure. He did not say urged from that side of the House?—(heor, hear)—
that this was meant as an insult, but certainly it had If so, his Learned Friend had only to conceal him-
every appearance of it. When Ministers in this man- self, and Ministers might be spent for ever (hear).—
ner met their opponents without arguments—without This was not very complimentary to Gentlemen on
urging any thing—and put the question at once to the that Side of the House, nor would it be satisfactory
vote—surely this was as much as to say, we have 190 to the public at large.—(Hear, hear.)—Was it right
votes, and we care not for your remarks—we do not that a measure of such importance as the present
think it necessary to give one reason for what we ask. should stand on the chance of being put off till elate
—(Hear, hear, hear, from the Ministerial Benehes);•— houi to-morrow ? Many other questions of impor-
After the division was declared, the manner in which tance must precede it according to the Orders ofthe
the account of the numbers was received by the Mini- House. It could not come on till after the discus-
' sterial Benches seemed to say, Aye, that was just what sion on the Salt-duties. a most important subject, and
we expected—.(loud cimeringfrom the ministerial side). one that would probably occupy much time. Besides,
It was as much as saying, We knew we were right." there was no necessity whatever for Ministers to pros!
(I oud cheering from the Ministerial side.) Not right forward the measure with such impatient earnestness.
upon the merits of the case, but in reckoning upon a Was it not retrospective altogether, and did it not go
large mrity in their favour, (Loud tries of hear, back as far as the 26th of January ? The Noble
hear.) The, on. Alderman (ler W. Cdrtis) he saw Lord was sure of carrying it, and he and his col-
was much amused, and it was impossible to look at leagues would, therefore, be just as safe three weeks
the good humoured face of the worthy Alderman hence as at the present hour. They had no reason
without catching some pdttion of what it so strongly whatever for pressing it forward with such indecese
expressed ; he-must acknowledge that he enjoyed the
,precipitation, but to gratify the mere wantonness 4 •
Hon. Alderman's cheering as much as he seemed to power—(hear.)—He hoped, therefore, that in regard
do himself, because he verily believed that the Hos. to their own characters they would• not persist in
Alderman vpted with the majority, and cheered the pressing the motion: '
majority, without being able to give one single reason Mr. -CANNING, mid the Honourable and,Leareed
for his vote or his cheer—(Teter, hear, and Much Gentleman stated sonie•rules as to the feu-Ms-or dr-
'laugh/fere—He must admit that a majority was an bate, which were true in themselves, but not in their
lunanswerebig Ar4usuent. Ministers triumphing in application to the preseut case. It was true that to-.
their majority might be careless, how far it con- 'night all the speaking had been upon the other tide
earned. the House and die country that the Bill of House, but certeinly not all on the same tide
should be hurried elerotiglf its various stages. They of the question (hear,Near, hear 1 • The reason why
thought themselves sae of their numbers. That there was a want of occupation on his side of the
was the argument on which they rested—Owe— House was, that the work had been taken out of their
No matter how much it might be the duty of Mem- hands.—(Near, hear!) The Honourablennd Learn-.
bets to deliver their opinions and reasons upon such ed Gentleman, indeed, seemed not to be aware of
a question ; they seemed resolved that nothing shoUld the length of the debate which was just concluded.
be had from them but the dead eloquence of votes. That could not be called a very short debate, in
But if they persevered in fixing the second reading which there had been twelve different speakers ; and
for to-morrow, when it must come on at a very late yet such had been the debate of this night. It could
hour, from the pressure of other most important not be called i very extraordinary debate, in which
business (for there were several notices of motions of there were six speakers on the one side of the ques-
great interest which stood for to-morrow, and it was tion, and six on the other side, and yet such had
a day on which notices preceded orders,) if they were been the debate of this night—(Cries at hear, hear!)
'evolved to persevere, it only remained for those who When an accusation was brought against one party
hod to combat against a majority, and not against for having allowed the debate to drop, the accuse-
tegument:, to avail themselves of the protection which tion could not be sustained if the last speech in the
lthe forms of the House, devised by the wisdom of debate was one ei favour of that side of the question,
' our ancestors, so wisely, as it now appeared, to guard supported by the warty accused—and yet such had
against such an abuse and contempt of the ordinary been the case in the debate of this nighte-(hear, keep.,
course of proceeding in measures of such interest and hear.) The debate had been opened by his lion.
importance. He therefore gave notice, that if to- and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) with
morrow was the day appointed, to these forms he very able speech, the arguments of which remained
would resort, and he trusted he would be supported yet unshaken ; and with that speeeh he world be
in availing himself of them in so flagrant a case— willing to rest their part of the question. He was
(dear'
hear, hear! from the Opposition.) followed by the Honourable Member for Durham;
Lord CASTLEREAGH said the Honourable and and the Member for Northumberland, who both op-
Learned Gentleman seemed toethink that his Majes• posed the Bill.. They were followed by the Honour-
ty's Ministers,'by not having spoken in the course of able Member for Bristol, and the Honourable Mew.
this debate, shewed a contempt for the House, and bee opposite (Mr. Stanhope), both of whom spoke
neglected a duty which was expected from them. against the arguments of the two Hon. Membere
But if the Hon. Gentleman himself had exerted his who preceded them. Then came the Members fur
talents on this occasion, on which he seemed to think Cambridge and Hertfordshire, who both opposed the
it so much the duty of every Member to bring for- Bill, and they were followed by an lion. Member
ward such arguments as occurred to him, for or from the cross benches (Mr. Marryatt), who was iii
against the measure, they might probably have pro- favour of the Bill. A Noble Lord opposite (Lord
timed the effect of calling up some of the Members Althorpe) then spoke against the Bill, and next came
on his side of the House and of prolouging the de- the Honourable Member (Mr. Freemantle), whose
bate. But why did not the Honourable Gentleman speech contalnedthe best and strongest arguments in
himself take a part in the debate ? If he blamed others favour of the Bill ; to whose speech again a Noble
Ibr not arguing in favour of the Bill, why did not he Lord (Nugent) did his best to reply—(s laugh)._
himself argue against it ? Instead of that, however, he and last of all came the speech of an Honourable
bid remained in his hiding place till the debate was Member opposite, in support of the Bill, from a qua.-
over—(Laughter). It was understood, indeed, that the ter whence least of all was such support expected.
Hon. and Learned Gentleman was kept back on this This was the history of the debate in which his Ma-
sad recent occasionsby election business—ehear, hear), jesty's Ministers were blamed for not having takea a
with which, indeed, the Honourable Gentleman on part. He would be glad to know in what part of the
the present occasion seemed to' be more conversant debate they could have with propriety come in ? But,
than any other Member ; for he had told the House indeed, he would observe, that a debate in which the
what was as new probably to them as it was to him conduct of Ministers themselves was in question, and.
(Lord Castlereagh), that Parliament was to be dis- in which they were personally implicated, was not
solved in a fortnight—(hear, hear.) But indeed he that in which they should be too ready to take a
never saw powder more waged than that which the part--(hear, hear). In addition to the history of the
Honoureble and Learned Gentleman fired off on debate, which was itself a sufficient reply to the two
this occasion—(laughter.) As for the menaces of Hon. and Learned Gentlemen, he must remind the
the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he hoped his House, with regard to their threat about forms, that
Honourable and Learned Friend (the Attorney-Ge- the course of debating a Bill on the first reading, which,
neral) would be not one whit deterred by this newly- had been done to-night, was a very unusual course.--
nwakened effort of the Honourable and Learned The usual course would have been to have had the
,Gentleman opposite, but would continue to fix the first reading on the same night that the Bill was
second reading for to-morrow, according to the estab- hrou&ht in from the Lords ; and the second reading
liaised rules. If it were found that the other business on this night. That course was interrupted by a re-
of the House should occupy them to-morrow till too quest from an Honourable Member opposite, out of
late an hour, then the appeal of the Honourable and courtesy to whom his Hon. and Learned Friend (the
Learne'l Gentleman would have come in its proper Attorney-General) had consented to postpone the first
place--(hearj hear, hear.) reading till this night ; and now, in return for this,
Mr. BROUGHAM rose, amidst cries of &poke! the lion. Gentleman opposite came forward with his
Spoke ! He begged the indulgence of the House, as /hreats. His Noble I ict)%l il.crd Castlereagh) secure,{,