Star.
London, England, 1818-05-01 00:00:00

Miasnre of the nattie 'Proposed sariotij improvements
would naturally be the result bf Mare extensive ex-
perience. The Honourable Gentle concluded by 1
moving for leave to bring in a Bill to alter And amend
the Laws respecting the Settlement of the Poor.
Mr. ATKYNS WRIGHT wished to know how 1'
pauper forfeited his settlement?
Mr. STURGES BOURNE stated, that the time
of absence during the three years was not to exceed 60
days, else the right.of settlement would be forfeited;
nor was the pauper to be removed, unless his removal
was wished for by the parish. He also begged leave
to state, on the subject of hired servants, that, in the
event of a servant having resided the time necessary
to gain a settlement in more than one parish, he was
to be regarded as belonging to that parish in which
he had resided the last two months of the time neces-
sary for gaining a settlement.
Sir CHARLES MONCK thotight it would be an
act of gross injustice to sweep away a whole system
of Laws, even though at the first they might have
been bad or defective. The Law of Settlement, as it
at present stood, had for its object to decide betwixt
the Parishes upon whom the expense of maintaining
the pauper should fall. It was admitted that the
present law of settlement was bact. .11e thought one
of the provisions intended to be introduced into the
Bill was objectionable ; by which a.right of: settle-
ment would be vitiated in consequence of the party
having been guilty of a crime. By the old law, the
parish in which a man lived was held to be resp
,n-
Bible for his conduct, as they had, in some.degree,
the means of prevention ; and an injustice would be
done to another parish, should it be compelled to
afford him a maintenance.
Lord CASTLEREAGH thought it would be
better if the House would wait till the Bill should be
printed, than in the present stage to anticipate the
discussion.

Sir SAMUEL IIOMILLY was of opinion thatflie
proposed Bill would effect a most important improve;
meat upon the law relative to the settlement of the
poor. It was not indifferent to the pauper by what
parish he was to be maintained. A man might be
sent to a distance from all his friends and acquain-
tances, and have no means of earning a livelihood. He
knew an instance of a journeyman printer being sent
to a place where he had no means of working at his
trade, and, of course, was reduced to absolute beg-
gary. There was a similar case of a fisherman hav-
trig been sent to a place wholly inland, and the con-
sequence had been the same. When a man was thns
sent to a place where there was no demand for his
labour, -he could not get away from it without com-
mitting an act of vagrancy.
• Mr. LOCKHART stated, that there had been
lately a great increase of litigation at the Quarter
Sessions. He was apprehensive lest, by the proposed
Bill, a greater proportion of paupers might be thrown
upon_ the Cities than ought to fall to their share.—
That difficulty, however, might perhaps be overcome.
Leave was then given to loring in the Bill.
LOAN BILL.

Mr: BROGDEN brought up the Report of the
Loau Bill.

, .
Lord Lieutenants palace, but tigf *ere clereilech
they were not frequented as formerly by the Genttt
and Nobility, because their Parliament was taken
away from them. In the part cf the Country with
Which he was acquainted, he often saw people leaving
the churches for want of room. He hoped, therefore,
the benefit of this Measure would be extended there:
Thy CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER be-
hived he could remove the difficulties and satisfy the
objections of the Hon. Baronet. This measure would
not be attended with any injustice to Ireland. Of that
he hoped they would never be guilty towards her,
for they were fully sensible of the merits of their
Irish fellow-subjects. The HOn. Baronet *as mis;
taken in all the points to which he had alluded. In
the first place, this was not to be a grant from the
Cnnecilidated Fund: In the second place, the pro:
portion of two-seventeenths, established at the Union;
did not now exist. It was done away two years hack,
when the Exchequers of both countries were coma'.
liciated. As to the grant of fifty thousand pounds
alluded to, a similar one was voted every year since
1810, nix for the repair of Churches, but for the com-
mission of First Fruits. Last year it was only thirty
thirty thousand pounds. If more accommodation
Was necessary for the congregations in Ireland, which
he Was happy to learn were upon the increase, the
House, he had no doubt, would provide it cheerfully:
Sir WILLIAM SCOTT opposed the clause which
provides that twelve substantial housekeepers, to-
gether with other ttell-digposed persons, might erect
a Church, the Bishop,of the Diocese giving his appro
bation. This clause tended, in Lis opinion, to pro-
duce injury as well-to the Established Church as to
the rights of patron%
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said,
he considered rhis clause of vital importance. Upon
this occa,ion it was necessary to call in not only pub-
lic-hut private contribution. The Bill, as it stood at

present, witti this clause, had received the deliberate
concurrence of-the Committee. No danger could
arise from it. If they hooked round them, they would
see in every pact of the country Churches erected by
private contribution without having done any injury
to the Established Church. The measure of private
liberality was so vital a part of the Bill, that the whole
shoul.d, in his judment, either stand or fall with it.
Mr. wfforrt.sLEy opposed the clause. It would
be better, in his opinion, to introduce- it in a sera.
rate Bill. '. • ' - ' • •
Mr. BRAGGE BATHURST took the great
jection to be, the gking such a power to strangers to
the plan. Before the disposition now sheWn by Par..
liament,'tbe public had taken up the subject. But
if the inhabitants at such places as Liverpool, Man.
:hester, &c. chose to come forward to the nnmberof
twelve, it was a different case. Ile regretted that
no power was given for the enlargement of churches
and chapels.
The CIIANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER des
fended the clause. A•laTe prOportion•of the subsiz
diary fund would be raised. within the parish ; buu it
was difficult to determine it. Ole was. willing to as-
idnt,-- • tuld dude the

sent to any amensinn.nt thit WVI
principle of the clan c. ••

Mr. MARTIN wished to be informed by the Right
Honourable- Gentleman (the Chancellor of the tx-
chequer), whether the subscribers to the new Loan
might pay up in full at any time previous to the pe-
riod appointed for the last instalment? whether they,
there to receive discotint upon Exchequer Bills so'
,paid? and, thirdly, at what time subscribers would
have their stock delivered to them ? • •
The CHANCELLOR of the.EXCHEQUER said,
that subscribers to this Loan might, as usual, pay up.
in full, before the period mentioned, but they were.
not to receive discount upon Exchequer Bills so paid.
To the third question, he would answer, that subscri-
bers would have their stock delivered to them as soon
as the usual forms of the Bank-permitted. • .
Mr. MARTIN wished to know, whetHer.subscri-

not precl

Mr: PEEL expressed his entire concurrence Wiqt
every obserbation which fell from hisilight•llonour.
able and Learned Friend. (Sir William Scott). Tire
objectiqnahle clauses did not seem necessarilF.Q?nr.
.nected• with the rest of the sill, and might easily he
--diltieled from it, to be Made the subject of a setak
rate discussion.--They, therefore, ought to Ise in,
troduced in. a *separate Bill, and determined •on
their own grolinds. - If .right, .they -might, be-voted
by themselves; if, Wrong, ;hey ought to be rejected
without injury to whAt was right. The conscritd
the House ought ' not to-be purchased to an objec-
tionable nieastrrehrits union with whit was .tiesiht-
qa ble, nor ought the re tion of the latter to be h;:-
;arded by being c-ottp with the former. The Bight p
was not allowed to ju ge by the Bill of the '
source
__
- - ids-- - -

bees would be allowed interest upon Exchequer .Bills frond whence the fund—s.—arosi. If twelve wet. sed
up to August ? persons agreed to' raise, thcifecessary funds, they
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said might apply to him anl have his consent to the
they should receive interest upon. thorn up to August, erection of a place of worship, to.which the trustees
but no longer. elected by the majority of. subscribers wherever they
After a few words from Sir M. WHITE lIIDLEY, resided, would have the right of presenting twice.
the Bill was ordered to be read a thir.l time to-morrow. This description of persons appeared to him to be
PORTER BREWERS. as indefinite as the result of their operations might
Mr. BARCLAY wished to know at what time the be injurious •to the rights 6f the Church. What
Honourable Gentleman opposite (Mr. Lockhart) in- was meant by well-disposed persons, when the
tended to bring on his motion relative to the Porter term was introduced itito an Act of Parliament ?
Brewers of London? or whether he meant to propose Crime was defined by law, but he never yet heard of
any measure grounded upon the petition which he a definition of morality in a statute. Ho* were we
had presented some time back relative to this subject? to measure good dispositions, or ascertain the charac-
Mr. LOCKHART could not say when he would ter of well disposed* persons, by an Act of Parlia-
bring on a motion upon the subject alluded to. It ment ? He was confirmed in his objections to this
would be necessary for him first to ascertain whether clause of the Bill by the very concessions that had
the petitioners could prove their case. already been made, and the amendments introduced.
NEW CHVRCHES. In the original proposal of the measure, die substri-
The House having gone into a Committee upon bens were to have the right of•nominating thrice.
the New Churches Building Bill, . His Right Honourable Friend, the Chancellor of the
. Sir FREDERICK FLOOD said he had heard that, Exchequer, had now reduced this right to two turns
for the purpose of Building the New Churches, the of nomination, and smother Right Honourable Friend
sum of one million was to be raised from the Con- (Mr. B. Bathurst) spoke of one. Why was the origi-
solidated Fund of England and Ireland. This, ac- nal proposition abandoned, if it.were right? In the
cprding to the proportion settled at the Union, being Bill there was no description of the kind. of fabrics
two seventeenths for Ireland, would throw upon that to be raised, and no provision made for their repairs.
country a part of this expense amounting to 120,0001. They might only be of a kind to last so long as the
If such was the case, he hoped that Ireland would original subscribers had an interest in the nomination
partake of the advantage. Hewas as desirous as, of the clergyman; and might devolve to the patrOn
any man to see new Churches built for the accom- ur the inciinibent when unfit for use. He opposed
modation of the Established Church. Ireland re- the clause, and wished it separated from the Bill.
quired such accommodation as much as England, for Dr. PHILLIMORE said, it became the Hance to
the population had greatly increased there, and was consider the want of Churches, and whether the Les
becoming more numerous every day. There was not gislature would not .relax in certain rights to enable
a country in the world more productive of popula- the zeal of individuals to concur with -the wishes cf
tion—(a laugh).--The Protestant religion too, was Parliament., It was true, indeed, that law was un-
advancing as fast as any other description of religion. bending, but this was not the case with legisltition.—.
It could not be denied that Ireland was very much If there was a real want of Churches, he had rather
indebted to England, but it should be remembered that Churches were erected by secrarists, than 'not
also, that England was very much indebted to Ire. built at all. Ile was not.fOr separating the measure
land, and it was the interest of Britain to support her. from the Bill. Notwithstanding -the anxiety he felt
Her Otfrcers and soldiers always fought gallantly. to -maintain the ascendancy of the Church, he ronfes-
Not one of them deserted their standard. In the time scd that he wished to see the present clause carried.
of Mr. Perceval 50,0001. was granted for repairing It would, however, be recollected, that the Midst?,
Churches in Ireland, and the same for First Fruits in • still retained the power to repel all abuses of the
last Session. They were not able to bear this. The I Sir M. RIDLEY felt it his duty to object to the
Right lion. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Ex- clause, and doubted touch ifthe Bishops had a power
chequer) could not but see the distress of •the .country to prevent the abuses.of it. Jim hoped it -7.'7.dd &sally
when he was last there. It was apparent, particu- form a separate Bill.. •
lady in Dublin, the finest. metropolis in the whole Lord CASTLEREAGH would shortly state Abe
world. lie must have observed the wretchedness of , grounds upon which he should support the -clause.
the place, some of the houses deserted, and a great He much doubted, inthe pratent :stase of the rowing
part of the windovis stopped up to avoid the tax. I poptilatioo of the country, whether the arnArtug void
i There were palaces there nu doubt ; there was the *,iA religion could be supplied without wx.o sooatetal