Star.
London, England, 1811-05-09 00:00:00

necessity of

on the expediency of repealing that measure, WAS
a question wtych, Ferhart.did not exactly ground

Whnteier

itself upon the Report of that Committee; or, at
least, as appeared to him, it was not necessary
for the Committee to make that recommendation.
All that was desired of them by the House was,
to report on the causes of the high price of gold.
If, therefore, Gentlemen wished for a repeal, the.
was a distinct subject, in bis opinion, and ought to
have been so brought forward. The Hon. Gentle.
man, in furtherance of his arguments against the re-
peal of the Act, instanced the authority of a very
great man, Sir Francis Basing, who, in a pamphltt
published in 1796 says (what he should now contend
namely, that it is perfectly unsafe for the country t..
adopt the recommendation of the Committee with
respect to the Bank Restriction Act). " The situa-
tion of the Bank is totally altered, in consequence of
the drains of gold and silver, and will remain so un-
til the panic has subsided and confidence is restored.
Whether the restriction should be suffered to expire,
should be renewed, or altered, is a question which
cannot at present be decided. Upon mature consi-
deration, however, I think it should continue, and L
much doubt whether it would not be prudent undei
certain restrictions, to make bank-notes a legal ten.
der.—My chief reason for thinking so is, that publ;.-
credit ought never to be subject to convulsions, nor
to a change even from good to better, unless there is
a certainty of maintaining it in that position ; a re-
trograde movement in public credit is productive of
evil consequences, which are incalculable, and, there-

fore, are averse to the Bank of England resumins
their payments during the continuance of the war."
—(Hear, hear.) It was his most anxious wish that
the Bank should return to the old system ; but it was
also his firm opinion, that such an experiment shoul.4
ROC be risked during the war. On the subject of the
difference of exchanges affecting the price of gold,
that in some degree might be true. The interrupti..a
of the intercourse with America no doubt alrcted tl.e

exchange orithe Continent, as bills could not be tea-
day negociated there. If the removal of the resti:c-
tion were to be acceded to, he was very appreherLlve
that it would open the flood-gates, and let all the
coin of the country out ; and then there would be
little chance of seeing it back. Besides, it was to be
remembered that the money was detained for useful

purposes, which must be obvious without his namiug
them ; but it let loose, it would get into the hands of
the enemy, and consequently was much safer where
it is. The effect of sending out 20 millions of specie
in 1801 and 1802, was to overturn the state ot ex-
changes on the Continent.
Mr. A, BARING hoped the Committee would
believe that those Gentlemen who had the honour of
a seat in the Direction, were alive to the great evils
which the Report of the Committee was intended to

remedy. The questions arising out of that Report
had been so variouslyexamined, and particularly those
relating to the state of the currency and exchanges,
that it would be necessary for him to premise that he
entertained the same opinions with the tummittee,
and also with the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Horner).—
He certainly thought that a depreciation of pap:t
(it might be a hard word)—a difference Between that
and the amount of the present metal it represents,
wan the came—arising as it did, from the excess of
circulation, in addition to the state of the foreign ex-
. changes which had produced that rise. Without
that excess the scarcity could not have existed to so
great an extent. So convinced was he of the fac:,
that he had not thought necessary any of the vari:us
pamphlets published by the Honourable Gentleman
opposite, and other persons, upon the subject. Would
any man of common reason, at all acquainted with
the subject, read them, when the fact was so plain'
The excess of paper bad the effect of enhancing the
price of the different commodities, carrying gold
along with them. The Honourable Gentleman con-
tended, that the state of the finances creating a circu-
lating medium, was the first cause; and he took a
comparative view of them from the year 1793, when
the revenue was seventeen millions and a half, with
~the present year, when it is ninety millions. In main-
taining this, a fictitious value must be given to things,
in order to support the issues ; for it had been ob.
served formerly, that when the national debt wa; one
hundred millions, the country would be ruined. The
great mass of the evil was to be found in the capital
debt, and not in paper issues ; for the circulation o:
paper was necessary to carry on the funding system.
It was desirable that the issues should he kept within
bounds—until that was done, he should not consider
the country safe. Supposing that the Committee
should agree to reduce the amount of paper, hew
could the gold be get back ? If he (Mr. Baring)
could get a profit by it, he did not know where to lay
his hand upon ten thousand pounds worth of specie
on the Continent. Having discussed the subject at
considerable length, he assured the Committee, that,
as a Bank Director, he was actuated by a sense of
duty in speaking out, conceiving that a more pre-
ferable way than to involve the country in the most
serious danger, which would be more injurious than
taking the other alternative.
Mr. FIUSKISSON defended himself from the
charge of having introduced and argued upon a sub-
ject not immediately connected with the question be-
fore the House.—Mr. BARING explained.
Mr. SHARP telt it incumbent on him, as a Mem-
ber of the Bullion Commitwe, to rescue himself and
the Committee from the general accusation of a re-
trocession from die opinions contained in the Report.
In no single instance did such a retrocession exist.—
A much more serious charge had also been preferred
against them, namely, that of having so disregarded
at moral considerations, as to treat with lightness the
perjury which, in the fulfilment of their duty, they
were compelled to state existed in the transactions
connected with the exportation of gold bullion front
the kingdom. It was rather extraordinary that a
charge like this, wholly unfounded in its nature,
should have proceededfitim the Vice President of that
very Board (the Board of Trade) under which licen-
ces were grsntect, which could be of no avail to those
by whom they were obtained, except through the aid
of simulative papers and perjury. It had been said
that no practical man went to the extent of the epi
moms expressed in the Bullion Report. He presented
himselt to the Committee solely in the light of a prac-
tical man. Although he was persuaded that the scien-
tific consideration of the question was capable of ac-
tual demonstration ; and although he should be juit
, as much surprised to be told that the three angles of
a triangle were equal to two right angles, or that ten
and ten made twenty only, until the trade and the to-
reign expeuditure of the country Mould be ill such cr

•

I

b

such a state, as to hear some of the doetrineikleat )tad
been advanced by the antagonists of the Report, yet
be wculd abstain from all theoretical comments and
confine himself to a statement of several facts which it
might be important for the House to consider. By tome
it was contended, that the present system, if not ab-
solutely justifiable, ought to be persevered in, because
it afforded us the best means of opposing the enemy.
What ! were there no means of successfully opposing
the enemy but by a currency not founded on true
principles ? By others the recurrence to what was
also allowed by them to be the true principle of
circulation was objected to, on the ground that our
great foreign expenditure, the extent of our taxation,
and the state of our trade, would not permit it. Let
the Committee consider the situation of Hamburgh.
Was the trade of Hamburgh good ? Was she free
from taxation ? Was she not suffering the most se-
vere and oppressive enactments, by which her com-
merce was nearly annihilated.? But under all these
circumstances of distress Hamburgh had disdained
the cowardice of resorting to a fictitious currency ;
and the consequence was, her exchanges were most
favourable. What was the state of Holland ? Was
not ter commerce destroyed ? Was she not taxed to
the very lips ? Was she not exposed to all the seve-
rities of a military despotism? Yet Holland had also
disdained the cowardice, which having committed,
this country was called epon to continue—she had
disdained resorting to a fictitious currency, and con-
sequently the exchanges of Holland were favourable.
So with regard to Paris. Were the French finances
flourishing ? Was the trade of France extensive ?
Was her taxation light ? No ; but having preserved
a real currency, her exchanges were in a good state.
It had been said that the exchanges of Great Britain
with Sweden were favourable to this country. This
was a fallacious assertion—for on enquiry he found,
that the exchanges of Sweden with H imburgh were
SO per cant. more in favour of Hamburgh, than the
exchanges of Sweden with Great Britain were in fa-
vour of the latter. But the dep:eciation of our cur-
rency had been denied. He would again appeal to
facts. It had been usual to send over specie to Guern-
sey to pay our troops there. Each guinea had re-
cently been paid to the soldiers at the rate of 255.
One regiment, however, refused to receive them at
that rate, and there the matter rested. Again, a per-
son who inherited from a distant relation the sum of
a thousand guineas, was lately paid in specie. He
went to invest the money in the funds—and on asking
the price of S per cents. was told 64a. On inquiring,
however, at what rate he could obtain the stock if he
paid real money for it ? he was told, after some con-
deration, that he might have it for cash at 60 ; and
at that price he actually purchased it. Let Parlia-
ment be cautious not to allow the proper moment of
interference on this most important subject to escape.
At present the water was fordable, soon it would be a
mighty and impassable sea. A considerable portion
of our currency was at present unprotected by law.—
A great number of dollars had lately been issued, and
was still issuing. These would shortly afford the op-
portunity of extending the practice which had already
in some degree, obtained of making two prices. Par-
liament would then be compelled to take some mea-
sures for the security of the personal liberty of the
subject. As had been ably stated by an Honourable
and Learned Friend of his last night, although the
tender of Bank notes for a debt was a security against
a mettle process, it would cot prevent an execution.
As soon, therefore, as this practice of making two
prices should be confirmed and extended, creditors
would enforce their legal demand of payments in coin
or bullion, and Parliament would then be driven to
the necessity either of making Bank notes a legal ten-
der, or of adopting the proposition of his Honourable
' and Learned Friend, under circumstances of encreasea
embarrassment and difficulty.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
would consider it an iuercusable omission if he ne-
glected the opportunity which now offered to address!
the House on the very important subject new under
discussion, and which was provided by the jarring
sentiments delivered by two Honourable Memaers,"
who, nevertheless, had argued on the same side of '
the question. One had contended that it was im-
possible to adopt a measure which it was the opini ,n
of the other could alone save the country from ruin.
For his part, he conceived it was quite nugatory to
consider the subject but with a reference to the pre-
sent state of the country, and he must dissent from
the Ifonourable Gentleman who had expressed
an opinion that the abstract question of deprecia-
tion was alum to be adverted to. He had no incli-
nation at this stage of the debate to go into detailed
statements, in which persons who had preceded him
had made it unnecessary ; it would suffice to refute
more generally the arguments of the Gentlemen op-
positie—One of their opinions was, that the excess of
paper had produced a depreciation for which there
WAS no remedy but a removal of the restriction ; but
of the existence of this depreciation, which they had
assumed :is a fact, they had not offered the smallest
preof. What they had substituted for proaf was ne
such thing, but tobe explained by circumstances fo-
reign to the question. It was necessary to imbibe a
clear idea of what they denominated excess, before a
step could be taken in the argument. That assuredly
was not excess which was necessary to the trade and
revenue of the country. He would go further, and
observe, that it could not be called excess of currency
when that currency had increased in a certain• ratio to
the increase of the mercantile and other concerns it
was destined to manage. It had been necessary, in
con cquence of the drainage of our money by our fo-i
reign relations, to increase our currency by resorting
to paper, without which there would have been a de-
ficiency which would have subjected the country to
great inconveniency. The question then was, whe-
ther with such a drainage as that he had alluded to,
we should or should not have recourse to suck a means
as would sustain our commerce, agriculture, and
other sources of national prosperity, which, without it,
must sustain a partial failure. No unprejudiced per-
sn would hesitate in deciding in the affirmative.--
• The excess then which had been complained of as
calamitous, so far from being so, was the prop by
which we had been sustained in the difficulties which
had pressed upon us. War, •it had been contended,
begot poverty, and poverty peace • other wars might
have done so, and if the present had not, (and who
would contend that it had), the difference was attri-1
butable to the excess which had been so much abus-
ed. It was as much a question to decide this night,
whether we should witbdzaw or not from the war we
. .

Rim

were sttceetsfuliy waging for our existeeee ? And
should we pause for a moment to consider whether, in
order to produce a favourable state of our exchanges,
we should desert the cause of our country and of the
civilized world: There was a possibility, indeed, that
we could recover our balances ; nay, there was a cer.
taint), that we could, it the country survived the at-
tempt to do so; but could we indulge a thought oft
the risk ? Were not the stake and the advantage in.
commensufable quantities ? The Gentleman who
had spoke last had desired us to look to the courage
which had been exerted by Hamburgh and others of
the Continental States, in facing the evils of their cur-,
rency, and the rich reward they had reaped in the pre-
servation of their exchanges and balances; they had
reaped a rich reward indeed—they were beneath the
dominion of Bonaparte 1 Oh, happy Hamburg!) !
happy Holland ! They had preserved their exchan-
ges. Yet, notwithstanding the manifold evils which
had been stated as the result of our pusillanimous
conduct, with respect to our exchanges, he would not, i
he would confess, exchange our situation for that
prosperous state which had been obtained by the
prowess of Hamburgh—(Loud cries of Hear, hear.)
Having endeavoured to throw some light on the term
Excess, which had given birth to so much sophistry,
he would now say a few words with regard to another
favourite term, viz. Depreciation ; and, in the first
place he would observe, that there had been much
pains taken by the Gentlemen opposite, of late, to
confound coin with bullion, though In the early stages
of the discussion coin alone had been compared with
paper ; that now being found Insufficient, bullion
was had recourse to ; so that their premises all set-
ting out with one, they very logically drew their
conclusions by the aid of the other. But, he would

maintain, that in the present state of otter Coinage
I.aws, coin was specifically different from bullion.—
He would not agitate the question, whether those
laws were founded in wisdom or otherwise ? it suf.
ficed for his argument, that they existed. If bullion
circulated in this country, whether stamped or not,
then indeed it might be identified with coin but not
so according to the preient system. As the affair
stood, he would contend that a comparison was not
to be instituted between Bullion and paper. Much
had been said as to a standard, and gold and silver
it had been argued constituted that standard. This
position, in its more simple form, he could hot ac-
quiesce in; the standard was gold and silver certainly, I
but gold and silver bearing a certain relative value
to each other as established by Law. An Honour-
able Gentleman (Mr. Homer), speaking of the Bank
of Paris, had a&nitted, that very considerable in.
convenience had resulted from their contraction at
one period of their issues to a certain amount, but at
the same time had stipulated, that no conclusion un-
favourable to his theory should be deduced from his
admission. I will grant you this, said he, or much
more of the same nature that might seem partially to
affect my theory, but the principle must remain un-
touched. He did not wish in the least to insinuate
any thing to the disadvantage of the Honourable
a. ttlerrian's feelings; from the little he knew of him
he was sure he would he one of the last persons in
the world to regard with an eye of indifference the
sufferings of his fellow-creatures ; bnt there were sea-
sons when studious men like him withdrew as it were
frcm all concern with the human character, but in-
asmuch as it embraced the philosopher, the econo-
mist, or something of a similar nature. But he
would ask if the Bank of Paris had created much dis-
tress by a contraction even of its slender issues ?
What extent of calamity might not be expected from
the revulsion which a similar measure, adopted by
the B ink of England, would he likely to produce ?
What would be the state of the country under such
an operation ? The Right Honourable Gentleman
then contended, at considerable length, that to adopt
the proposition of Mr. Horner, would be to aggra-
v ate the calamities under which the country labour-
eci, engaged in warfare as she was. Without Bank
issues, such as had taken place, ae could not
carry lot the contest against France; and if
the balance of trade" were restored, it would
be at the expeßze of our political consideration.—
What the Committee had recommended was not only
dangerous but ruinous—(Hear, hear.)—He had not
noticed all that he had been desirous of alluding to,
but he gave it as the full conviction of his mind that
the Report of the Committee was contrary to the evi-
dence that had been laid before them. They had
not adduced proofs to support the conclusions they
had drawn ; and in conclusion he gave it as his firm
opinion, that if the Resolutions of Mr. Horner were
adopted by the House, they would be the voluntary
instruments of the ruin of their country !—(Loud
cheering marked the confusion of the Chancellor of Me
Exchequer': Speech.
Mr. CANNING thought the Committee who had
presented the Report of their labours to the House,
had been hardly dealt with. The Members of that
Committee had not sought the task that had been im-
posed upon them ; but they had been .appointect by
the House to examine the Bullion. They had done
that, and they had done it, too,in a manner honourable
to themselves and advantageous to the country. They
deserved the thanks of the House,• and the applauses
of the nation. He was glad that this subject, which I
was of vital consequence to the country, had been dis-
cussedin that House—from the discussion much good
would ensue: But the subject was before them, and
they must dispose of it. The Right, Honourable
Gentleman then went on to express his approbation
of the original propositions (Mr. Homer's), with the
exception of the last. He supported his opinion with'
elaborate and ingenious arguments drawn from the
valuable body of evidence contained in the Bullion
Report. He concluded with expressing his determi-
nation to support all the Resolutions proposed by Mr.
Horner,except the last; and instead of that, he wished
the two last of the counter-Resolutions proposed by
Mr. Vansittart, to be inserted at the conclusion of
Mr. Horner's.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER
explained.
Mr. BARING, Mr. HUSKISSON, and Mr.
VANSITTART, mutually explained.
The question was then loudly called for, and post.
poned to this day.—Adjourned at Five o'clock.

PRICE OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONR creLocs. ,
Cone. money 64-1 65—for aemennts
S per-Cent. Reduced 6414
4 per Cent. 71+-5 per Cent. Na nq.
Exchaq. Is. db. to supresie—ies6 Ufa Taps. „

THE EVENING STAR.

LONDON:

THURSDAY, MAY g.

A Merchant veihel, the John and Sarah ketch, has
arrived at Plymouth from Lisbon, which place she
lett on the 30th ultimo. The. Captain reports, that
on that day an express had reached Lisbon, stating
that Almeida had surrendered—the garrison priso-
ners of war; and that Badajoz was closely invested,
and expected to fall every hour. Trade at Lisbon
was uncommonly dull. The vessel which brought
the above intelligence took out a cargo of wines and
brandy, but was obliged to return with it to England.
By a vessel which has arrived in 46 days from the
Brazils, we learn that trade had revived there in some
measure, in consequence of new communications hav-
ing been opened with the interior. The market was
still overstocked, however, with British goods. Hides
and tallow were at low prices, and so very plentiful,
that the store-houses were filled with a quantity suf-
ficient for three years consufroption.
Our naval force at the Brazils was employed in
cruizing along-shore, with the exception of the Fou-
nROYANT, (Admiral DE COURCY'S flag ship,) which
continued stationary at the seat of GBvernment.

By letters from Paris to the 4th, and from the
French coast of two days later d ste, it appears that
the mischiefs of the Continental System are rapidly
increasing. A number of fresh failures have taken
place since the preceding accounts ; and fears are ex-
pressed, that before the conclusion of the present
month, many of the principal commercial houses in
the French capital, and the chief trading towns, will
be under the necessity of suspending their payments.
Amongst the recent failures, the house of Cabana and
Co. of Bayonne, is mentioned.
The letters from the French coast state the very
general persuasion, that the Peninsula would be eva-
cuated in the course of this year. The apprehension
of a rupture with Russia, and of an insurrection in
the north of Germany, on account of the total annihi-
lation of its trade, were mentioned as the ostensible
reason& for withdrawing the' French troops ; but the
real causes were conjectured to be the hopelessness of
success, and the incompetency of the French Govern-
ment to make greater efforts than those which had
already failed.
It was expected that some commercial regulations
favourable to the United States would shortly be an-
nounced in the French ports.
The accommodation 'which was allowed to the Eng-
lish prisoners in France, of occasionally corresponding
with their friends in this country through the port of
Morlaix, has been suspended, in consequence of its
having been discovered, that many of the letters allu-
ded to political affairs.
We are unable to furnish our Readers with any',
further intelligence respecting the hostilities which
have broken out between France and Prussia. In
the mean time, a vas iety of reports received from the
Continent, through the medium of private letters, still
tend to confirm the idea of a war being on the eve of
bursting forth in the North of Germany. It appears
certain that the French General RAPPE has received
orders to form a cordon in Prussia, and to occupy all
the ports of the Baltic between Memel and tiantzic.
The expedition of Sir JAMES SAUNAS= has given an
alarm to the French Despot, anti it may be his object
to annihilate the King of PRUSSIA before the more im-
portant enemy shall take the field against him.
C ULINCelat r had passeahrough Memel on his re-
turn to France ; and at Petersburgh the merchants had
taken advantageof his absence, and were extremely im-
portunate with the Emperor that the independence of
trade might be maintained, and that the Continental
system, which had ruined the neighbouring tingdoms,
should not be adopted in Russia. It was also said yes-
terday, that in Sweden, leave was given to import and
export colonial produce freely.
A kind of manifesto, however, has been industri-
ously circulated throughout Sweden, with a view to
conirince the people of the mischiefs likely to ensue
to their own manufactures, from their continuing
to hold any commercial intercourse with Great Bri-
tain s this does not look like any relaxation of the spi-
rit of hostility threatened by Sweden against this
country.

A regular series of Gazettes from Buenos Ayres
have been received. They contain various Proclama-
tions of no interest. The new Viceroy, ELI°, had ar-
rived at Monte Video, and announced his arrival to
the Government of Buenos Ayres, calling upon them
to pay obedience to the mother country, and to the au-
thority vested in him. To this Address the Junta re-
plied in very petulant terms ; requesting the new Vice-
roy to abstain from insulting them in future. Moan°,
who had been sent to England on board the Fame, died
on his passage.
The Americans still continue to enforce their Non-
Intercourse measures against vessels from this cnantry.
The Magdalen, SKITCHLtY, from Liverpool, arrived
off New-York the 28th of March, and was ordered to
stand to sea for seven days, to give oßportunity to
apply Sit Washington 143 r leave to enter, she having
sailed from Liverpool after the 2d February.

Yebterday a Court of Directors was held at the
East India House, when Caprzin Enviians, of the
Lord forbes, one of the last ships of ti,e season, took
leave previous to departing for Bengal.
.The Court ♦oted 41000-towards the relief of the
Portuguese ii furl *dimmed at its o'clock till to
marrow. •
- • .