Star.
London, England, 1820-11-04 00:00:00

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*tette fashion': it. hoped the censures now pronounced du the
persecuted Queen of Bugland would not be lost upon them, nit'
• • %Char* wiled. impress one them the conviction that the tasre,i
: " 'affstetirlohythey Were in the display of their charms, the more
attractive and lovely would they appear in the eyes of the other
seat; and that, to use the language of a celebrated writer,
" Qua nto a mongrel mate,
" Tanta 1 pat bells !"
The Noble Lord next directed the attention of their Lord-
ships to what had passed on board the polecat, which he ad-
mitted formed the most material part of the case for the prose-
cution. The evidence of Mr. Hownam had been commented on
With severity by his Noble Friend on the cross-bench (Lord Lau-
derdale). Hew Wised the Noble Lord would apply as much candour
to the evidence of Mr. Hownam as he had applied to that of Ma-
joechi, and he would probably find that there was no disposition
in the former to prevaricate—(Hear, hear ! ).—That witness had
been desired to distinguish between what he had heard,
and what he bad known to be the fact. Upon being asked
whether he knew that Bergatni had at any time slept under
the tent, he replied, without the least hesitation, that he
did not know ; and, im his cross-examination he replied with as
little hesitation, when asked what he had heard upon thit
subject, that he had heard Bartolomo Bergaml bad slept un-
der the tent, and that he believed it. Where, he asked, was
the contradiction in this? Lieutenant Hownam had not
departed from the truth upon either occasions, and was not
deserving of the harsh denunciation of the Noble Lord, who
hid viewed all the evidence with such remarkable impartiality.—
Neither did Lieutenant Hownam merit the character of per-
jured wretch, conferred upon him by the Noble Lord, notwith-
standing the contradiction given to his statement in one part by
Captain Briggs. Mr. Hownam's truth was indeed unimpeach-
able—(llear, hear).—The Noble Lord then adverted to Lieut.
Flynn's evidence. Ile acquitted that witness of any intention
of misrepresentation, but he allowed that there were such
inconsistencies in his testimony ascribable to a confusion of
intellect, as to render it impossible not to exclude it in the
consideration of the case before their Lordships. lie was
ready to admit this, for Lieutenant Flynn could have had
no motive for mistatiog upon the subject of the writing of
Schiavini, and notwithstanding the willingness of the Noble
Lord (Lauderdale) to credit that witness upon one point,
in preference to his favourite witness, Gargiulo —he meant
with respect to the person who had the command of the
palacca. It had been said by the friends of the measure before
the House, that as soon as hlr. Hownam uttered his belief, the
system of defence was changed. The fact was, that part of the
case bad never been denied. Mr. Brougham, if did not make
the admission, had not denied the belief; and Mr. Williams, in
his opinion, had, in the course of his observations acknowledged it.
Now. with respect to the five weeks spent under the tent in the
polacca: he admitted again that the circumstance was a suspi-
cious one ; but it appeared to him, considering all the circum-
stances, consistent with the most perfect innocence of intention.
The fact o. Idergami's sleeping under the tent was not doubted,
but a colour had been given to that fact—(//ear ! hear I)
.Garguilo and Paturzo were witnesses of a suspicious character.
They were paid well for comitig over to this country, and what
could be.said upon examining their evidence? Why, that this
modest, delicate, Sicilian skipper, Garguilo, had, from an affec-
tion for his relation', morals, ordered him away from a sight
th it might corrupt him-0 latig4)—and was not the anxiety of
that witness to fix an imputation upon the Queen to be sure
pecteLl, when he says, in answer to a question, that the Prin-
cees commanded such and such things to be done, because Ber-
semi commanded it ; and whatever llargaini commanded her
Hoye' Highness did firer, hear). This was not all, for the
Captain who had thus shewn his hostility, had an additional
illative, in the quarrel and disappointment which had taken
place with respect to his profits. Ile came too to this country
under an expectation of a large recompence for his trouble,
upon the rezammendatian of Colonel Brown—(hear, hear) ;
and what impartiality was to be presumed in the evidence of
such a person ? How absurd was the picture presented to their
Lordships ! Was it possible that two persons, svha had been gra-
tifjing their passions all night, weld not abstain from the same
Indulgence in the day; and that so extraordinary was the appe-
tite, that they could not help exhibiting before the whole crew !
If they asked why Schiavini had not been produced.—all he
could have deposed to was as to the letting down of the awning,
and could his evidence be for a moment thought necessary ?
It would ap;ear as if Noble Lords had thought it to be her
Majesty's practice to say, now the lit is upon us let down the
curtain, every body knows what for. If adultery was to be
carried on, why had not the part chosen for the entertainment
been below the deck, where no interruption could have taken
place, and where the sailors could not have had access, as they
had at all times to the tent and other parts of the desk? Now,
11,1101 the situation of persous on hoard ship was considered—co,
place where the most aelicate female was obliged to resign all
ideas of delicacy—where, as Sir W. Scott said, all persons, male
sod female, were cooped up into a miserable intimacy, and
%here every word ALA action were known to all on board—to
suppose that a guilty imercourse had taken *cc under such
circumstances was too much—to give a verdict to that effect
Calid his Lordship) was against common sense !—(llcar, hear).— ,
The transaction in the tent, and the elevation of bet-genii, were I
certainly suspicious circumstances ; but that was all—they by
no means amounted to a conclusive proof of wait. Their Lord-
ships would look to the preamble of the Bill, which stated, that
the Queen's con.tuct reflected scandal and dishonour upon the
Crown and the Nation. If the proof of that fact lay upon the
polacca, what was it ?—llergami had been elevated by the power
of a great Princess. It had been proved by eleven or twelve
witnesses, that he had not abused his elevation ; on the con-
trary, he had acted towards his old equals with a feeling which
proved that he had not forgotten his former station, and that he
was grateful for the abmefits with which he had met. Did
it nut appear, that instead of being a disgraCed outcast,
he had been received with the Queen in Ceurts abroad—
Carlsruhe, everywhere

mischief W111%8400E; aliddkailst that sese,sht Bin had IseSW
pass sit is. In that ease, year Lordships will at lease :He as.
. But If the Bill shwa be reed a miodd time, and dile'
rejected by some tiontrivance mother, in what slmatioo will
stand? Would your difficulties bet ditalssiduld ? What would yen
do further? What would the other blouse dolt The bodoess'i
r could not stand still. The Queen must be invested with all bee
rights and privileges and prerogatives; and she must be so ittH
vested in the face of a Second reading of s. Bill of Degradation
against her by the House of Lords i .-Our difficulties would be
increased instead of diminished. It is true that. some step, such
as that to which I allude, might serve as a kind of shelter for his
Majesty's Ministers, but they could shelter themselves only by
investing us with their disgrace and difficulty. This, my Lords,
is the only word which I will allow thyself to utter on this view
of the question. I should hold myself to be indeed acting un-
worthily if I were to make the present a subject of party feeling.
I trust that I have not pressed Into ti" present argument any
unfair or unworthy topic. I trust I have treated it as a Legis-
lator, and a Judge. I trust that the motives which induce me
to urge your Lordships not to leave a brand on her Majesty, of
which she is, in my opinion, undeserving, are of a pure and
honourable description.—The Noble Lord concluded his speech
with the following words : " My Lords, a great part of my poll.
Beal life has been spent in storms and convulfions. As far
as human infirmity would perMit me, I have endeavoured
to pursue a direct and steady course. I have never courted
power. In consequence of my adherence to prhiciple, I have
been excluded from power. In the course of my life I have-
abo beets the object of much popular reproach. These, I
trust, are proofs of the determination which I have invariably
evinced to resist the undue encroachments of the Crown, and at
the same time to defend from the attacks of the people those
rights and prerogatives which are not more necessary for the
dignity and splendour of the monarch, than they are for the
protection and the happiness of the people. In the case before
your Lordships, I have not made up my opinion without much
anxiety and mach consideration. I fairly acknowledge that
my prejudices and Impulses were quite unfavourable to my pre-
sent conviction. I hardly conceived it possible that a case
would be made out which would not compel me to vote for this
Bill; but such a case has been made out; and, my Lords, first,
' on the ground of justice, and, secondly, on the ground of. expe-
diency, I feel, that if I were to vote for this Bill, I should never
agtin lay my head down on my pillow in peace !--(Heor, hear).—
Tla only vote which f cast reconcile to myself—the only vote
which, under the deepest sense of my responsibility, I can con-
scientiously and fearlessly give, before my Goa, on the present
question, is—Not Guilty !"
(The speech of the Noble Earl was received throughout with
great marks of approbation, and it made an evident imptession
on the House.]
Lord LIVERPOOL said, the speech which they had just
heard combined two questions, namely, as to the guilt of the
Queen, and the expediency of passing this Bill. This might in-
volve their Lordships in great difficulties; but, notwithstanding
the difficulty, he must support the Bill. The question to be'
considered now was, whether this Preamble had been so fat
proved as to justify the second reading of the Bill? As to any
agreement on this subject, he knew of none. The next question
was, whether the Bill should be read a second time? As to the
consequences arising -out of such a measure, be could not now
consider them; not because he under-valued them, but because
he considered this as not the proper time to discuss them. The
time for doing so would have been on the 19th of August, when
the subject, with all its bearings, was before them. Hoehn en-
tertained the question, however, they having allowed the Coun-
sel to join issue—having heard the evidence fully through, it
was now due to themselvei, to the country, and .to the Queen,
that they should come to a decision upon it. With. respect to
the altering the Preamble, that would be a subject for conside-
ration in the Committee. He should consider, however, that
no difficulty could arise in that respect, as it was customary in
Courts of Justice to find a verdict of G..Jty on some Counts of
the indictment, and of acquittal on others. The Noble Lord
had asked him whether, if he could have compared the proof
with the opening, he would ever have proposed this Bill. He
would answer, he should h rye done so; and further, he would
now desire no Noble Lord to support this Bill who did not ton-
seientiously believe the adultery proved beyond a doubt. He
was ready to acknowledge there was contradictory evidence on
this subject ; so there was in all great causes. Les their Lord-
ships look to the Douglas case, to the Anglesea case, and to all
other great cases, and they would find it so ; but here he would
desire their- Lordships to give her Majesty the benefit of doubt,
wherever doubt should exist ; and allowing her that advantage,
if he did not show her Majesty guilty beyond the possibility of
doubt, he was ready to give up the Dill altogether. A Noble
Friend of his bad regretted that this case was not proved by
English witnesses. He had the same cause for regret ; but how ,
was it possible it should be so, when the Princess. of Wales toot I
especial care never to have an Y.aglish servant or person abate'
her, witholie exception of one person? Was it pessible then,
to hare other witnesses?. But it was also objected that the evi-
dence were all discharged servants. Ile was ready to allow that
di,carded servants were a description of witnesses who ought to
be looked at wi ill suspicion ' • but the accused had the power of
b negativina their evidence, by the testimony of the servants who
remained in her Royal Highness's family still. lie would not
detain their Lordships by going through all the evidence ; but
he would, for the fair judging of this ease, take De Mont, the
discharged servant. and Lieutenant Hownam who owed every
thing to her Majesty, and compare them; and he would ask
whether Dc Mont was not confirmed in every circumstance in
which it was possible she could be confirmed by llownam ; and
indeed Hownam's testimony, in most cases, pressed heavier on
her Royal Highness than De Mont's did. It was unnecessary for
him to advert to the scenes which took place at Naples. If he
was to judge on the evidence, as related to these transactions, he
was bound to say he could not take the adultery as proved • but
the circumstance of her going to the Opera only accompanied: by
llersand and lie Mont, and many others which occurred there,
afforded a cause of suspicion ; but this was followed by other
• introductia

at Munich, at Baden, at Rome, at
in fact, except where an English Minister interposed with I circumstances which admitted of no doubt—the aiou
an active and unfeelina hostility—(Henr, hen-, hear).—The of the Countess of Oldi, in a secret and mysterious manner,
Noble Lord then adverted to the testimony of Barbara Kress, into the family; and the admitting Bergami to dine at her
which, he stated, did not increase the presumption of guilt, and table at Belenzoui, when all the other servants were excluded.
which certainly had been very unsatisfactory with respect to Soon after h
ex was promoted to be Equerry, and before six
the stains, a subject which had not been slightly alluded to, be- mouths had eared,i he is seen by Lord Gaildford alone with
cause the witness was influenced by any peculiar delicacy ! Now, her Nlajesty in ton the Lake. It had been said, there was
as to the expediency. If their Lordships looked to the justice of nothing novel in a Princess advancing a favourite from the
the case, they would not let a Bill of Pains and Penalzies pass. He lowest rank to the highest. He was ready to acknosslelge the
was nut one of those who would flinch from the performance of truth of this assertion ; but, he would ask, was there an instance
a necessary act from the influence of, ; but they were legit. on record of a courier being, in the short space of six months,
lating for the P.:ople, aril should consular their interests alone— advanced to the rank of Baron Franclaini, a Knight of Malta,
(Haar, hear).—.l clamour had, he regretted, been excited. Many and Chamberlain to her Royal Highness; his sister taken in as,
things had been dome of which he diaaparoved ahngether : Maid of llonour ; whilst one of his brothers was retained as a
amongst those were the letter to liis Majesty from the Queen, and stable-boy, and another sister as a servant having the care of the
tl:c Answers of the Queen to the Addresses presented to her. linen; his wife being entirely excluded? But be would pursue
But their Lordships were deceived if they thought the feeling this course, and come to the Order of Knighthood instituted by
in the country was the effect of clamour. And he must censure her Royal Highness, in which, whilst her pretagei, William
the practice of iritatieg the feelings of the people by calling Austin, was ooly a simple Knight, Bewail was
them mob and rabble—a language which WWI calculated to wi- Grand Master of the Order, and this honour was en arm
den the unhappy breach between the upper and lowenorders of his posterity without limit. How was this extraordinary pw
society, and atoned at depriving the latter of the rights, and the ference to be accounted for? Not, he contended, by a suopieSs
forn•.er of the aid of their true and natural supporters--(Hear). ous preference, but by giving credit to the existence of an infa-
.My Lords, if this proceeding had been in the shape of a trial, . tinted passion and attachment; an attachment which no ens
a oar Lordships must individually have pronounced a verdict could doubt existed long before they went on board the polacca;
ef guilty of not guilty upon every article of accusation, and if and whilst on board the polacca, could any one say there was
the majority had been iu favour of acquittal, her Majesty would not a continual seeking of opportunity? Ile was ready to sc-
at once have been freed from all charge. But here, having knowledge that the testimony on each side was very highly co-
faile4 in establishing their original allegations, her Majesty's ac- loured, but not more so on-one part than on the other; and,
curers wish to substitute others. They wish to send the Bill taking Hownam and De Mont, as he had before stated, he
Vita a Committee, where, having failed to fit the proofs to the would only claim credit tor her where she was confirmed, or
indictment, they will endeavour to fit the indictment to the where she might have been conttadicted, and was not. Ile
proafs—(llcar, kear, henr).—lf this should be done, my Lords, would ask their Lordships to look at all the circumsrances of this
it will be impossible to deny her Majesty the privilege of being case • the advancement of Bergami and his family ; his constant
heard again at your liar, there to state the hardships and griev- attra;slance on her Majesty ; the invariable arrangement of the
antes to which you have subjected her. But the Bill may be beds, and other circumstances : and could it for a moment be
altered—it may he mitigated. Now, what may be called a mi. contended, that though at the time they went on board the po-
ligation of the measure by some of your Lordships, the Queen beta there wits no judicial proof, there was not sufficient to
and her advisers may not think so. I will exemplify this, with amount to a moral conviction of what nature the attachment,.
reference to the understanding which seems to prevail, that the between these parties was? Another circumstance worthy of
D.vorce Clause shall be left out of the Bill. If• I had con- attention, was, that of all her old attendants quitting her. Si-
c:fived that the charges against her Alejesty were substantiated cad was sent home from Naples; and she theu told Dr. Hol-
by evidence, and that the Bill ought therefore to pass, uo power land be might take a tour for sit or eight weeks in Switzerland.
on earth could have persuaded me that the Divorce Clause These things occurred just at thoperiod when 3ladarne Oldi was
ought to be omitted. Such a proposition would, as 1 have ha- introduced into the Gratify, and Ilergand became more closely
foie salted, have appeared to me calculated to degrade not only attached to her Royal Highness.
the Queen, but the King. There could, in my opinion, be no At this peri, lof the Noble Lord's speech (it being a quarter'
gteatri legislative absurdity, than to agree to a Bill degrading past four o clock),
the Qieen fur scandalusis and licentious conduct, am; ytt to Thu Earl of 11ARROWBY moved the tornAment of the
Lave her the wife of the King. But, opposing tax Bill, as I Reuse, which was met with a confused cry t(jautat, ad-
do most conscientiously, on the ground that the charges against jaunt !"—" Car on, go on !"—but the Noble lord stated, that if
Tier Majesty have not been established, I am somewhat at a lasi there were any probability of the question being brought to a
what to do wall respect to the Divorce Clause- I will give no close that evening, he should not have asked them to adjourn.
pledge
upon the subject. My conduct shall be regulated by Lord LIVERPOOL said, he must unavoidably still occupy
atiatimitances. The present inclination of my mind certainly is,, a consider.ible portion of their Lordahips' tinie.—The House,
that if the motion below your Lordships should be agreed to, tine than ismnagiately seceded to the inettiant thr adjoutumeuts